April 7, 2021 • 48 mins
The Diary of River Song, Series 4 Review
The audio adventures of Professor River Song continue with some temporal shenanigans and a devil of a villian. We look at the Series 4 entry of this Big Finish box set that finds River traveling with some new companions to save a "time-less" planet, face a time-bending race of baddies, and meeting up with a rather familiar face along the way ... maybe one of the old favorites?
In their look into the TARDIS library, they review the 2012 National Theatre production of "Antigone," featuring Christopher Eccleston and Jodie Whittaker in the leads roles of Creon and Antigone. How do these two Doctors fare in the world of ancient Greek theatre?
The audio adventures of Professor River Song continue with some temporal shenanigans and a devil of a villian. We look at the Series 4 entry of this Big Finish box set that finds River traveling with some new companions to save a "time-less" planet, face a time-bending race of baddies, and meeting up with a rather familiar face along the way ... maybe one of the old favorites?
In their look into the TARDIS library, they review the 2012 National Theatre production of "Antigone," featuring Christopher Eccleston and Jodie Whittaker in the leads roles of Creon and Antigone. How do these two Doctors fare in the world of ancient Greek theatre?
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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(00:03):
Welcome to the Nerd Party. Welcometo a Time of Space, a Doctor
(00:36):
Who podcast. I'm Jessica Nunn andI'm our husband and co host, Philip
Dolphus. Well, we've returned fromvacation which gave us an opportunity to get
involved in some Doctor Who that wehaven't done in a while. Oh yes,
because with the COVID for the pastyear, we don't usually go on
(00:56):
any long car trips anymore. Right, I mean, let's not say it
like it's now we're never doing itagain. We're just currently not very often
going on long car trips. Butwe did recently when we went to the
beach. We did go to thebeach and that's about three and a half
hour to drive, so plenty oftime for a buck set, that's right.
(01:18):
So we're going to talk about anotherbig finished production and keeping with our
order, not about the Eighth Doctor, but another series that we've been listening
to, and that's The Diary ofRiver Song. Hooray. We'll be talking
about series four, which was releasedSeptember twenty eighteen, which I mean I
was looking at this up. We'rehalfway through. There have been eight series
(01:38):
at this point. Okay, soif you like it, there's more of
it. Well, there you go. If you don't, I don't know
what to tell you. So howcan you not? Like I was going
to ask, you know, thisis our fourth one. We'll get into,
but the other three not that I'masking you to remember all of them
at once. Yeah, but whathave you thought about them so far?
In if it helps you remember,you know, they sort of go are
(02:00):
doing the backwards count of doctors.I think they started with eight and the
head of seven. Yeah, vaguely. Yeah. I mean I like river
Song, so I'm going to enjoyit. Do you like that they've had
the sort of serialization and each boxset that it's not just episodics. Yes,
yeah, I think so, althoughit takes me a little bit of
(02:22):
time to remember that, particularly withthis one. You know, I was
sort of tuktoo going along and episodethree or whatever, and then I was
like, oh, we're still onthese guys, oh the demon guys.
And for Inside the Tartest Library asegment we're gonna talk about something that we
actually watched several weeks ago, butwe didn't talk about it. They're gonna
(02:44):
talk about it now. And wetalked about it amongst ourselves. It wasn't
like the show ended and we satin silence for some time. It's actually
what we normally do for most ofthese things, a little bit of awkward
silo. Let's we save it upfor the podcast and let me just look
at the cat for a while,speak to each other again. But yeah,
(03:06):
we'll be talking about Antigony, theNational Theater production that starred, among
others, Christopher eccleston and Jody Whittaker. Dan, Well, we'll get to
it. I mean, in thecourse, very important role that I want
to say, starring U. Butlet's get into it. So, like
I said, we're gonna talk aboutseries four, and I thought, I
don't know, you can change usif you want. I thought, for
(03:28):
the sake of discussion, since welistened to two episodes going and then listen
to two episodes coming back, Ithought we sort of split it up in
discussion between each of the two partstwo episodes, you know, eleven two
second intermission. I guess, Idon't know. But the two episodes we
listened to in one sitting or carride as it were, were Time and
a Bottle by Emma Reeves and MattFitton. And then Kings of Infinite Space
(03:53):
by Donald McCleary. So you wantto read those two summaries, I will
so Time and a Bottle. Riveris recruited by a rival to explore a
star system where time no longer exists. Professor Jemima Still has picked up a
signal from an impossible source and takesan expert team to investigate. But their
(04:16):
mission is about to unleash hell uponthe universe dot dot dot and then Kings
of Infinite Space, with the Discordiaon their tail, River and her friends
running for their lives across time andspace. But when your opponent can twist
cause an effect to ensure victory atevery turn, then escape may well be
(04:40):
impossible. So how do you likethe setup for this story of you know,
River Song recruited for a mission,and you know, I liked that.
I liked I liked the first one. It was a little bit because
they did a little bit of timejumping, didn't they, um because the
demon and would show up and wehadn't gotten to that part yet kind of
(05:02):
stuff. Um, But I thoughtit was an interesting premise. I liked
the idea of this is how Riverlives her life you know, taking on
projects and things like that, andshe talks about her fee and I thought
it was interesting that she was witha rival from university, and you know,
(05:24):
I thought it was set up verynicely and introduced to some interesting characters.
You know, you don't often getor we don't have to get these
sort of um you know, academicside of River Song. I mean she
is a doctor of archaeology professor orif you will, and um, so
yeah, it was kind of funnythat you know, she has a fellow,
you know, doctorate classmate too.She you know, different teaching methods
(05:47):
and she sort of looks down andall that stuff. So well, and
they fought over a boway, ohthat's true. That's true. Well,
I don't know if River fought overwell, yes, that is true.
River Song had a day with aboy and it was just one date and
it was a boy that Jemima reallyfancied, and so they fell out and
(06:08):
River was wildly indifferent and Jemima marriedhim. That's right there, you got
so um, what do you thinkis sort of we get these different alien
species so I'm actually forget they're allcars, um the types of Yeah,
there's gamma ray is not a NAMA'sspelled gammera I think anyway, Yeah,
I think they made jokes about howthat they took off at the cast to
(06:30):
figure out how to pronounce it.But um, she I guess it was
like an insect race, right,yes, yeah, aunt or something like
that. They they mentioned that inthe extras, but I don't know necessarily
that I got that and specifically inmy head. Yeah, I mean sort
(06:50):
of you know, the queen youknow in the story, yes, home
hive or whatever, I don't know, and then you had sort of the
I don't know. I was picturinghim more of a robot, but I
think it's supposed to be more cyborgy. The I don't know what he's called,
not battle bot, because that's thedifferent kind of thing. But anyway,
the war borg is that what theycalled it. Anyway, I think
(07:11):
that's what they called it. Idon't know. Yes, whatever his name
was, he was quite interesting.And at that say, I liked gom
Gomara. I feel like it wassimilar to Goma. Think, yeah,
so the Gamara is what we're goingwith. Sure, Um. I liked
(07:33):
the idea of river traveling with companions, and so I was sad that they
didn't travel with her for very longnow, And what did you sort of
think of the introduction of the badguy or bad guys the Discordia. And
then I guess specifically was Melock whateverhis name was, Melock, Melock,
(07:54):
that's it, Yeah, Melock,Yeah it was. That was an interesting
twist two things. Again, Ididn't get at the time that they had
frozen, like the whole we frozentime, but we can also go back
in time. All of that wasa little bit and I actually forget,
(08:20):
and I'm sure that was explaining.I just forget. I forget how you
know they traveled to this place wheretime had been taken out. I don't
know, um yea, And soeverybody was just sort of yeah and frozen.
And you know, river Song basicallyhelps Jemima with like creating a time
bubble for lack of a better word, so they could travel into this place
and have actual time. But Iforget how it happened. I mean,
(08:41):
it's assuming it's something with a Discordiaor something. But I remember why time
got sucked out of it? YeahI can. Yeah, And they go
Because Jemima has received these readings whichseemed to suggest that it's the doctor asking
help um and so that is whatpeaks river songs interest in this. No,
(09:07):
but it's all deception. Yeah,and I think this first episode could
be I mean it doesn't, butit could almost be a standalone stand alone
because there's actually a lot in it. For just one episode. You have
to set up, but then youhave to travel to the Hive. You
get all the Hive stuff, andthen they find the ship where Meylack me
(09:28):
Maylack is and then he you know, you have that back and forth between
you know, Jemima's, oh,she's the villain. Turn it turns out
maybe, and then no, no, Maylock's the villain, and then he
reveals that he's secretly the Discordia andthen you know it's all a trick or
something, and then you know nowand they've awakened everything and all bad stuff.
(09:50):
And so it was pretty good forall that. Yes, the second
one I really didn't like. Idon't know how you thought. To me,
it was just sort of like thisis when River's basically being chaste and
using her vortex manipulator. It justseemed like, you know, she pressed
the vortex and then they arrive andthey'd have a would establish they'd encounter some
random character and wherever place I landed, and then the Discordia would show up
(10:15):
kill that person, and then andthen they've meet someone else then and then
Scordia shot up and they killed thatcharacter. So a lot of people die.
Yeah, like whole planets. Theywere kind of wiping out whole planets.
Um, and and that I wasn'tcrazy about. I liked a little
bit. Um the Robot River okay, oh yeah, oh yeah, that's
(10:37):
true. Yeah, that set upat the beginning of this episode, episode
two, right, um, andso that was interesting. But then it
was frustrating because the robot River kepttelling the Discordia where they were and so
and everybody was getting sick and seriously, everybody died. Oh yeah, it's
just I mean, it's it's aninteresting sort of snippet of oh here's this
(11:03):
species, and oh here's this species, and oh here's this rat guy and
oh yeah. And it was alsoI found it frustrating because even when they
thought they were safe, even justfor a minute, they weren't. Like
they run into the rat guy andthen the rat guys like, oh,
(11:24):
come on, i'll help you,I'll help you, and They're like,
oh, we can take a breakfor just a minute, but turns out
the rat guy wanted to eat them, that's right. And then the Discordia
show you know, it just feelslike they could not catch a freaking break.
They land on the water park planetand or planet that just has water
(11:45):
parks. Yeah, yeah, andthe tour guides they are the Australian guy
and it just and then the Discordiashow back. They just don't there's no
chance to breathe. I guess,which is part of what they're trying trying
to do. Um. Yeah,I mean from a story or from a
writer or standpoint, I guess it'sfine to create a bunch of different characters
(12:07):
and have them to make an impactand you know three pages or two pages
or whatever, but it just doesan audience. It's just exhausting. I'm
like, there's just there's nothing goingon in this episode. I mean,
I mean plot wise, there's nothinggoing Yeah. It was. It was
the what is it the fourth episodeof the fifth episode of all the sixth
series. Yeah, it just teststo sort of. It established the fact
(12:31):
that the Discordia could go back intime and change things. It established them
as World Killers. All of thosethings needed to happen. We needed to
know that before we could move tothe other one. So us move to
the other one. Yeah. So, I don't know, did you when
you you know, when we arrivedto our destination? I mean, well,
(12:52):
what were you thinking would happen inthe next two episodes? Or did
you no idea? No idea,no idea? I was really glad I
was at the beach. Okay,now, I don't know. You probably
didn't think about or even see thecover knowing that there would be another doctor's
showing up. Correct. Yeah.So so then we go into sort of
the next two episodes, we haveWho Done It? Also by Matt Fitton
(13:15):
and then Someone I Once Knew byJohn Dorney. So would you like to
synopsize those too, please? WhoDone It? Melody Malone finds herself in
a castle with an assortment of strangecompanions, but guests are being murdered one
by one. Time is running outfor a mystery to be solved, and
Franz Kafka is hiding something in theattic and someone I once knew River has
(13:43):
tried in vain to keep the Discordiaaway from the doctor. Now as Devil's
run riot through universal spacetime, herown past with her husband is being rewritten.
There's one last hope for the universe, a love story, but one
that must find an ending. Thewho done it? For me? Like
(14:05):
a with the second episode that wetalk, you know, everything's Jude,
you know the Chase Chase, ChaseChase. He kind of gets a little
mun uh mix up in your head. But I don't know. But I
clearly understood all the characters and allthat I think with who had done it.
What they were doing was interesting,But I couldn't keep all the characters
straight. Like, Okay, Iknew the dog, there's the dog.
I got the dog. I knewthere was the highly crazy French accent guy
(14:28):
who supposed to be poor Row.I got it. I got that one
huh um. And other than that, I'm like, there's like another guy,
there's a woman, one with aBritish accent, and one who's a
British person doing an American accent.I didn't feel the need to keep the
characters in my head. My Ithought this was cute. I enjoyed it.
What I didn't understand was why shedid it, And they explain it,
(14:50):
yeah, and I still don't understandwhy she did it. Yeah.
And the one than then you havefriends France, it's Kafco Frons. Well
they keep saying France and I'm likethat it's Franz. I believe it is
how you would say it. Ais doing a lot of work. Um,
but because I really thought his namewas France, because I don't know,
(15:11):
it was Cofco for a little bit, um in the accents weird too,
But anyway, all that said,um, yeah, I mean I
get that she's trying to hide,but then it's they tried to convolute that
even more and I'm like, youlost me, soche tartists, because then
it's not that I didn't understand,but it lost me a little bit because
they were kind of doing flashbacks atthe end, I guess explainingly yes,
(15:35):
and it kind of got muddled.And then four words and because Cofco was
there with her, but he wasalso in the bed dying, and that
was all weird. Interesting though.This one got stuck in my head because
the premise was that they'd all beeninvited to solve this murder and the winner
(15:56):
gets the manner. Yes, yes, yes, the person who solves it
gets the manor house. And sothen a couple of nights ago, I
dreamt that you and I were gettingmarried again, okay, and we were
doing it at a manor house,and neither one of us was particularly happy.
Sounds right, which yeah, alltracks so far. It was like
(16:18):
an autobiography dream. But we weregoing to get the manor and we were
being shown around the manor and Iwas like, oh, look at those
ceiling beams and yeah, so itended up in my head and they're like,
that's a conservatory on like trek room. And then at some point I
left for a while and came back, and then I couldn't find you,
(16:41):
and you had a whole bunch ofrelatives there and none of them liked me
very much. So really it wasa lot like our wedding. Yeah,
Soultrey House. How would you thinkof because again doesn't really mean much to
me. What did you think ofthe COFCO connection? Yeah, it was.
I don't think I've I, likemany people, I don't know if
(17:03):
we read the whole thing. Iremember reading a bit of the Metamorphosis in
high school. Is it like reallyshort? Is it a short story?
Relatively short? We read the wholething. I don't I don't know.
It just seemed like it was justa couple of pages in the literature book,
know when you're you know, atextbook. Um, so I don't
know, but I mean I amfamiliar with it, but I mean I
can't ever forget how it is welland then yeah, and then familiar with
(17:26):
it all. Yeah, yeah,it was. I don't know if that
was included because the writer was failingparticularly clever I got to write the story
what's on my book show here,or or if he was trying to work
(17:48):
a little bit absurdist, you know, if the story itself was absurdist and
so surreal. So referring back toKafka and okay, maybe, um,
because I mean I like, youknow, it's very doctor who to have
the historical figure be the companion,So I mean I like that, but
it was still because I mean thatdoes I mean, I guess I'm complaining
(18:12):
when I say this, but Idon't mean too because it's such a mystery.
You don't really get to spend timewith him because you're like, is
it him? Is it not him? Is he really? Is he not
real? What's real? What's notreal some people could see him and some
people couldn't, but you don't fundthat out until later on. Yeah,
and then I was also trying tofigure out who everyone was supposed to be,
Like, okay, the dogs ScoobyDoo and then the guy's poor Row.
I don't know who the other peopleare supposed to be. Yeah,
(18:33):
I don't know if they're supposed tobe one at all, but anyway,
but they're like the Melody Malone connection. You don't they don't pull that one
out or no, And I agree, I liked that too, so yeah,
yeah, so it was it wastough to keep track because then the
answer is like, oh, it'sall just a tartest psychedelic mind, and
I'm like, oh, okay,so it doesn't really matter who like,
(18:55):
the mystery doesn't matter. I meanthat's basically the answer, right. Well,
that was a waste of time.Yeah, And honestly, with these
um audio books, I tend tosort of have to let them wash over
me if I get too caught upand what I don't understand or what I'm
not picturing, well, it's justgonna get muddled for me because it's like
(19:18):
the two ladies together. So they'refree. I'm like, what's nice?
Been like, wait, I knowthis was real. Why does it matter?
I don't know, because they werereal to themselves and yeah that made
them real. Yeah it gets alittle again, Yeah, it gets a
little Kafka esque. Yeah to methat that lost me a little. I
mean, I don't know. Maybemy artsy farts in this has a limit,
(19:40):
but I'm like, yes, we're'sreal and characters can be real to
No, they're not, though,that's I mean, I get the like
from a writing stame. Wait withthat, they're I mean it seems like
but they have to leaf in thatnow now they're not so and yeah,
yeah, I mean I get whatyou're trying to do. But too much?
Too much? Yeah, but Ienjoyed that one. And then we
(20:02):
get the doctor. Yes, thedefinite optical, you might say, yeah,
and a little bit of Dickens.Yeah. So do you think of
having Tom Baker is the doctor?Yeah? And again it started off confusing
because he's like, of course Iknow who you are a river song and
we've spent all this time together andremember that time with unit and she doesn't
(20:27):
remember any of it. And I'mlike, well, that's not at all,
Cannon stop that, but they explainedit. It was a clever way
to give them that connection without muckingabout with the timeline. And I do
appreciate without meaning too that they areabout probably where we are in our watch,
(20:48):
because you got to hear that.Apparently Harry Sullivan has a thing for
river I guess or something. Therewas some sort of alcohol. Yeah,
I think she may have hit himor something. I don't know, so,
um yeah, and this Harry Sullivanwould totally have a thing for a
river song, but not be ableto form coherent sentences. It would probably
say something misogynist maybe, Um,you know you're one tough bird day Yeah,
(21:14):
yeah, um, because I thinkthe challenge not in a bad way
because it's river Song, so it'sgoing to be about river song. You
know, that's what she signed upfor. Um. But you have the
doctor, so he's going to haveto have kind of a prominent role.
And so they do split the charactersand so give them kind of their own
stories and typical doctor whose style that'sthat's not a complaint, but it was
(21:36):
interesting. I don't know what wouldyou think of, um, how they
handled the doctor. You know,you've only gotten one full series with him.
I mean, you've seen a littlebit, but would you think of
how that he was handled? Andyou know, I heard you scoffed during
the extras when they're like, oh, he sounds just like he did,
and you're like, which I translated. I was like, now he's old.
Yeah, And that was okay,and so and particularly, I guess
(22:00):
because Tom Baker is so ubiquitous,Um, hearing him, I'm picturing old
Tom Baker, right, And sothat was a little strange if that's not
what they were going for. Butit didn't. It didn't. I didn't
find it jarring until I thought toohard about it, and then I was
like, well, he's not thedoctor as an old guy. He's that
(22:22):
caretaker at the museum. Um.But I did picture him as as old
doctor. But like I said,I didn't find it jarring at all.
Yeah, I did. I mean, you know, because you have to
think about the well, I thinkabout the writing. You have to sort
of capture that character and you know, well you do whatever you want,
of course if you're the writer,but you don't want to be too cartoon.
(22:45):
He's kind of like Star Trek,you know. Of course, the
original stories you don't want to doa cartoon interpretation. You know, if
you know it, you know howto write it, but you don't want
to do like that's cartooning. Let'syou know, have Kirk makeout and you
know McCoy yell at Spoker. Youknow, I mean that it's there,
but that's not what it is.And so how are you gonna write the
Fourth Doctor? But I thought theydid very well. He could sort of,
you know, um, pretend tobe foolish. He never really had
(23:07):
his serious moment because he pretends tobe foolish, but of course he knows
what he's doing. But that's,you know whatever. I thought it was
very well. You can, youknow, connecting to with um, forget
the woman's name that he connects with, and who's memorize all the codes,
who kind of becomes his mini companionif you will. Yeah, um,
yeah. And there was a littleTimmy Wyman but that was fine. I
sirs, yep um. And thisis sort of the ending, of course,
(23:30):
with the Discordia and trying to makeit a love story, which which
was fine. I'm trying to remember, you know, the river narration kind
of reminds me of the you know, her first appearance in the library,
because she kind of does the narrationfor the two part of their um to
it kind of brings to mind thatum. But I don't know, what
would you think of how we gotrid of the Discordia. That worked for
(23:56):
me completely. I wish that someof that world had been built more so
throughout, like the Emperor, Yeah, because I mean, because that's how
I was thinking throughout the story,or at least the second half that you
(24:18):
know, this guy's obviously a conqueror. You know, he's Caesar, he's
whatever, Alexander, you know whatever. He's conquered the universe, and now
he feels bad about it. Youknow. I'm like, okay, well,
you know, now he's going todestroy his whole entire civilization. I'm
like, okay, must have beena change of thought there. But yeah,
there's that, And there's no mentionof him, Like it feels mostly
(24:42):
throughout this, particularly in the secondepisode, that it's just the one Discordia
who has an army, yeah,and he's the one destroying everybody. There's
no mention of an emperor. There'sno mention that everybody in Discordia does this.
There's no mention that this Discordia guy, who is a relatively new Discordia
(25:06):
guy anyway, is now all ofa sudden in charge and able to destroy
all these planets, and how doesthat work out? And now the Emperor
is here and there's a picture andoh so it makes it hard to feel
those stakes when there's so little payoffand the beginning, which I didn't understand,
(25:30):
but then you're not supposed to somethingfind out the end of what it
is. But what threw me offabout the beginning of this episode where where
you find out ultimately that it's theEmperor and his consort. It's not that
I'm the fan, but just becauseit's in my mind, it just seemed
very Star Wars here that it's DarthVader and Leia at the beginning of episode
four or the first Star Horse movie, depending on how you call it.
(25:52):
You know, where he blows upall Duran with the gust star, just
like, that's exactly. I don'tknow if they mentally I pictured, I'm
like, you know, there goesyour planet. You know, that's basically
what happens in this one um Andso I was thrown off. I'm like,
why are we doing Star Wars um, yeah, I have no idea
what you're talking about. That's okay, Um, it worked for me ultimately,
(26:15):
Again, if I start poking atthings and what would you think if
I just let it wash over me. One thing I thought was interesting,
I mean in that creating this lovestory. They create three of them,
which is purposeful of course, butyou know, I think it's nice to
do in one episode or you haveto create you know that you want to
(26:37):
do a love story. I meanit's more than that, but that's the
setup. But you have not that. You know, at the time,
you have the Emperor and his consortone, then you have the Doctrine River
two, and then you have theGeneral creepy General and River three. So
you kind of create this sort ofyou know, parallels. That's all right,
right, word um, but anywayof the different ways of looking at
it, Um, I thought whatyou think is sort of the the Discordia,
(27:00):
General and River. I thought itwas very interesting. And I don't
know if there's any commentary happening orjust I mean, I you know,
maybe it needs to be said.Ultimately, the General is Malick, right,
No, he's if I remember correctly, it's a little fuzzy Malick is
the main bad guy of this wholebox set, and then he gets like
(27:23):
blown up. I think remember whenthe head and then the General comes in
and doesn't save them and like I'lltake charge now because you're stupid, um.
And then this the General takes overas the new baddy. Okay,
yeah, and see that's silly.I think that I would have appreciated it
more if it were Malick because he'dbeen out on a date with river Song
(27:44):
and so there at least would havebeen something that paid off. Yeah,
this is sort of the because youreally, I don't know, brid just
comes across as your sort of standardvillainy, creepy guy, which whatever,
I'll go with it, you know, the sort of like, no,
you will come to my kingdom andbe my queen. You know standards,
it's standard. And she's like I'mnot eating that pomegranate for you. Um.
(28:06):
But then it's like revealed that allthe discord you have to take non
Discordia as their consorts and Jean Pooland blah blah blah. And then I
guess she's turned him on by beingso hard to get and I don't know,
I don't know I don't know.Yeah, I mean it's I mean,
it's not supposed to be good,so you know it's it's it's perfect
the whole like saying out loud likewhat we all know and maybe these have
(28:30):
you said out loud of like that'snot how someone like you know you get
something to like you. She's like, yes, none of that's gonna make
me like you. That you havepower and I destroyed this planet for you.
No, She's like, what doyou what do you expect to happen
because nothing's happening right now and it'snot ever going to happen and you can't
force feelings. And I'm like,who is this? Is there an audience
that we need to be reaching out? I mean, evidently there was based
(28:51):
on things that happened in the world, but I don't know if I did
appreciate the fact that for the emperorto go back and get his consort,
so for the emperor to have hishappy ending River and the fourth Doctor have
to lose theirs, right, Yeah, And which is weird? Well,
(29:15):
it's different. I'll use that differentword, um because more or less classic
doctors tend to be very asexual,and so I've not I mean we've only
seen the one series, but youknow, he's just I've seen enough of
that. I'm pretty sure I've neverseen the Fourth Doctor be romantic. Um,
you know, maybe we'll find itand we'll stumble upon something. So
(29:37):
that was different, which I knowTom Baker and the extras was talking about
that, Well, maybe we canwe can explore this more because I mean,
I'm sure as an actor you'd liketo play romance every now and then.
Um been, I don't know,it's been so much. You like,
you like that character or what youthink that character is. But so
it's unusual I think that to haveromance from a classic doctor. You know.
But we'll get that here. Butagain, one of the things that
(30:02):
and you know we talked about thiswhen we were talking to shar and the
Tenth Doctor. I still see itas romance with a capital R rather than
romance with a little R. Youknow, it didn't feel like they were
making out. Yeah, like hewas like, oh I'm gonna miss you.
(30:22):
Wink wink, nudge, nudge.It was you know, we've had
all these adventures. It just feelsgrand. It sucks great memories. Yeah,
yeah, capital R romance and soagain, it doesn't. I don't
see it. I mean, eventhe flirtation is almost stylized. Yeah,
(30:44):
And I think that the premise ofthis whole thing was that, oh,
you know, we're gonna get TomBaker and um Alex. Uh yeah,
Alex, that's all you need toknow. I don't know, it's not
coming Tony Kingston Kingston together and sparkswill fly because they're both crazy people.
And I was like, I don'tknow that really happened. I mean,
(31:04):
I get that. I would havethought that too, And I'm not saying
it it's bad, but I'm justlike, uh, you know, yeah,
you know, I mean I getthere. You know, they're both
sort of troublemakers. I mean,I don't know how Alex isn't real life,
but the character of River and thecharacter of Tom Baker Slash the doctor.
You know, you're thinking trouble there. And I was like, yeah,
it's regular, you know. Imean, you know, we tried
(31:25):
it. We all thought it wasgonna be something crazy. Yeah, it
was fine, it's fine, itwas fine. But they were also stuck
in the confines of their story.Yeah, um, which didn't help.
You know, it sounded like they'vehad some great and I would like to
hear about those. Also, Ithink we should get River Song in the
(31:47):
Eleventh Doctor together because lesbiandas those wereboth some crazy kids. All right,
well, any what were your finalfinal thoughts about the series four of The
Diary of Riversong. Yeah. Ilove Alex Kingston. I think she's great.
She has a gorgeous voice. Icould listen to her for a long
(32:07):
time. Yeah. Yeah, Ienjoyed it. I mostly enjoyed it.
I almost feel like they could goepisodic. Honestly, they don't need to
have a hole because I feel like, you know, that discorre it kind
of got too much after a while. In other words, like as in
like they're so which I guess isthe point. They're so powerful, and
I don't know how you defeat them. You know, you've made it too
(32:28):
Yeah, so I just a smallerday in the life that would be fine
for me. Well, And itwas also like what does River do when
she's not with the Doctor? Andit could it didn't have to be like
in places it felt a little tenuous, like the who done it right?
The Who Done It would have beena great standalone episode of you know,
(32:50):
I've gone into gone into my ownmind for this specific reason, and but
as part of this, it justdidn't It wasn't as great as I think
it could have been. Cool.All right, Well, with that,
let's go into the tartest library,which who when you close your eyes,
(33:12):
go to the library. Go tothe library now, and now we're going
to talk about the performance or productionof Antigony, put on at the National
Theater in twenty twelve, and amongothers, it starred Christopher Eccleston, the
ninth doctor in the role of creonum or Um, Jody Whittaker, the
(33:36):
thirteenth doctor, as the titular character, and then another doctor who connection yes,
as a member of the chorus.It was Alfred Anak. Yeah,
so sort of it. Well,I don't know this, this is you
know, you're going to be youryour your thing to talk about yourself.
I'll set the table here for thoseum familiar or not familiar with antigny the
(33:59):
Greek trash um. But the directorm of this production sort of set it
in a modern contemporary setting. Um. The chorus was sort of there was
sort of an underground bunker um,I guess following a war and so the
course was sort of the underlings ofCreon there, you know, the staff
(34:20):
of if you will, of thisgeneral leader whatever, and so that was
sort of an interesting way I thoughtto use the course because it all seems
like because I mean, I've seenthat we've we went to I'm sure even
too many JSKA, but I've onlybeen to one production when we went to
when we went to Fable um.So that was sort of a classical,
if you will, production of Antigony. Um. So the course I always
(34:40):
think of as the course, butthis had I not known, just seems
like they just have a bunch ofcharacters at Selon. Yes, so I
thought it was very well done.I suppose I don't know how your strong
filings are maintaining a course course.No, not not in any sort of
real everybody has to speak um togetherkind of thing. And I'm actually utilizing
(35:01):
the technique of chorus in a showI'm directing at the minute um when I
did Antigony, because the idea ofantigony is um societal rules versus um legal
legal rules. Yeah, yeah,military versus society and those sorts of things.
(35:24):
I'm reading a legal jurisprudential nerd book. So you could say positivists legal
positivism, positivism, I'm not sayingthat. Read word positive verse or verse.
Natural law. So natural law beingwherever you think things come from,
you know, God or from nature, that there's natural law or you know
(35:45):
society's laws, right, yes,yes, um. And so my chorus,
and part of that was because ofwho auditioned. I had a bunch
of young kids or young people auditions, and so I cast them as school
kids. I cast the chorus asschool kids, and they were all in
(36:05):
school uniforms, and at the startof it were very much, you know,
all put together and the tie isdone up and everything. And as
the story progresses, the chorus becomesmore and more disillusioned with Creon's rule,
the rule of law, and sothe ties get undone and the shirts come
(36:27):
untucked, and so you can watchthat breakdown throughout the chorus, which I
thought was genius. But yeah,yeah, the third of the theban plays
my personal favorite. Yeah. Soall right, so there's Oedipus rex of
(36:49):
m and then there's the second what'sthe second Oedipus at Cologna's okay, is
that where we get to see thebrothers fighting. No, no, you
never get to say this is great, darling, this is Greek. You
never see deaths on stuff. Ijust figured, you know, whatever the
prequel to Antigny was, I justassumed it was the actual. But it's
just sort of we're going to tellyou what happened. Yeah, pretty much,
(37:12):
And again I showed it. Ihad a scrim and so I had
the fight between the brothers um behindthe scram at the beginning, and then
I had Antigony and Hayman's death alsobehind the scram so that they could see
it. But yeah, um,yeah, just the second one I didn't
(37:35):
ever hear anything about. No,nobody ever does it. It's basically Edipus
alone on a mountain, okay kindof stuff. Yeah, It's just it's
not you get Oedipus. If youget Antigony, you don't often get the
middle one. Well, what doyou think of this production and the two
performances in particular, Yes, Idon't know. And don't get me wrong,
British theater is one of my favoritethings ever. But because British theater
(38:01):
is sometimes more stylized than American theater, thinking about things like um, a
curious incident of the dog in thenmetein you know, where there's the devising
and the moving around and everything's justslightly more stylized. It doesn't versus a
(38:21):
static stage, well no versus arealism kind of. I feel like,
oh, because in American productions,it's because we bigger, is better.
We want to show everything, wewant to have everything versus British and you're
supposed to imagine. Yes, andagain that's one of my favorite things about
(38:45):
British theater. But I think thatsometimes it's easy to get as performers caught
up in that and lose some ofthe realism and the emotion it um.
And so that was my issue.I didn't feel like actors were pushed hard
(39:07):
enough. Okay, what do youthink of christ in his Creon role?
Yeah? I think Chris eccleston ina lot of ways, how working class
did he make this general a littlebit? But here's the thing about Creon
is that Creon is the isn't alittle bit where he is a little bit
(39:27):
You got out and interrupt he becausehe's not supposed to be royalist royalist right,
Well, because Creon wasn't supposed tobe King right. Um, you
know, Oedipus was king and thenit was going to go to one of
the sons, and because everything wentall tits up, now Creon's king,
so more men of the people,Yes, And I think that. So
(39:49):
I think that it was a rolethat fits Eccleston very well because of that,
and you can sort of feel it. And I think that's part of
Creon's tight grip on the law isbecause he doesn't necessarily feel like he's the
rightful person for the job. Yeah. Yeah, I feel sorry for him
(40:10):
in a way. Oh absolutely,actually a lot of ways, because I
mean he gives this big speech moreor less at the beginning where it's like,
you know, I'm going to bea king of the people. You
know, I'm with you, I'mbut you know, but I'm also no
special interest, right, you know, we're all wrong on this together.
We all have the same rule.Yeah, when I say something, I'm
gonna do it. There's not gonnaany favoritism. You know, you gotta
(40:34):
follow the law. I gotta followthe law. And that's basically three fours
to play. Everyone's like, yeah, that's awesome, and then it's like
there's something his family get involved,about who gets to barry who, and
then he's like, no, no, I'm sticking with what I said because
you know, everyone's the same.And then like three fourths to the way
the core is representing, you know, everyone is like, no, you
should make an exception, and he'slike, okay, really, I mean
(40:54):
like it just seems very anti uhwell people of course populus not first of
all, it's not quite that sortof abrupt change, but it never the
chorus isn't saying make an exception becauseshe's your niece. They're saying make an
exception because you can understand her perspectiveof both sides, and you know,
(41:22):
really, we're going to execute ayoung girl. That's not okay. I
just feel like they turned really hardon him. Like he's like, well,
I mean he's even added in holidaycharacters or whether there or whether they're
all supposed to be in the chorus, but like he has an advisor.
It's like that's what I should do, right, or that's what I'm gonna
do. And they're like, yeah, great idea, boss, yes man,
And then like three fours of whydid you do that? Boss?
(41:44):
That was like you because he waswell and I think it's also a um
to treatise or whatever. On It'sreally easy to make laws when you're not
thinking about individuals. It's like thethree strikes and you're out drug laws that
we had in the California in eightiesand nineties and those sorts of things.
(42:09):
That sounds fantasy. Yes, waron drugs, let's be tough on that.
Realistically, though, you got aguy who got caught with a joint
and is now doing twenty years inprison, you know, and so that
whole Yes, tough on crime,creon, Yes, tough on crime.
(42:30):
But then when you start to seethe real effects of it and the real
circumstances of real people. It's notthat Antigony was a trader. It's not
even that she supported the traders,but she loved her brother and you know,
(42:51):
and so it's the difference between thisis black and this is white.
And actually there's some nuance that wedid not consider and maybe we should have
done. Yeah, I thought,I thought, I mean, we know
what well I know and what Isaw that Chris did well, you know,
obviously it's a tragedy and I'm surehe likes that. Um. Yeah,
and Antigony's a little bit like JuliusCaesar. Uh, you know,
(43:15):
Julius Caesar, the Shakespeare play isnot about Julius Caesar at all. And
Antigny. I've never seen Julius Caesarat tarling. That's an inside jack that
we are not going to talk abouthere. Um. Of course, Antigony
is very much about Antigony, butshe's not the person who is. She
(43:37):
gives about three about speeches and that'sabout all you see. Well, she's
just not the one that gets caughtup on her own tubris kind of thing
like Oedipus does. Um. Itis Creon who who ultimately is felled by
his staunch adherent adherents. Yeah,and brought to task by exactly the same
(43:59):
person at a pus was by Teresiuson the blind prophet, who may be
a man maybe a woman who knowsTeresius apparently can two spiritual yep, can
go back and forth. Yeah.And so how did you think Jody affaired
in her brief appearance, Yeah,not brief anti main character. What you
(44:23):
just said, she's just not theone that falls. Um. Yes,
again, I wanted to see becauseAntigony has just the tragedy ant in Antigony's
life is ridiculous, and so Iwant to see that, and I'm not
(44:45):
sure I did quite as much asI wanted to. Yeah, and I
assume another attraction not to get intohis head, but that's what we do
now in our house, and toget into Eccleston's head. You have obviously
Jody, another Northerner, and sothis is sort of I mean, there's
other actors and I'm not remembering alltheir accents off the top of my head,
but so you sort of have aGreek tragedy done in the Northern style.
(45:07):
So absolutely, but again introducing thosevoices. I love this show and
I think it is universal. It'swell, I was gonna say it's very
Shakespeare. You'd say, shakes,we're just stole from them. M oh
yeah, But I mean it justthat's what it strikes me because you sort
of have which I'm againting the Greeksgraded it. So let's just say it's
(45:28):
very Greeky in um, but let'sgo with Greian instead of Greeky and or
a U or an Urn. What'swrong with you? It really earned it?
But anyway, um, but havingthis sort of the tragedy would then
have sort of the comic character,which obviously Shakespeare always steal um the guard
(45:51):
character who gives just sort of hisRambley Guard comic monologue. Um, and
you sort of go back and forthfrom there. But yeah, you have
those tragic romance. You have lotsof killing yourselves, you know, one,
two, three, right, Yeah, Antigny, the son who's going
I can't remember. And then thewife. Yeah, Creon's wife, queen.
(46:13):
I'm sure she has a name.Yeah. My Creon was amazing better
than Chris dak He was just verygood, Okay, because again he had
that grief at the end of thisjust loss. He just did a he
turned in a fantastic performance. Doeshe kill himself at the end? Who
(46:34):
kills him? Or just he livesin lives He's just wandering that what happens
to him now you're thinking about it? Yeah, I don't know. He's
just covered in blood and like aI don't work out, Yeah, curtain.
Yeah, who's in charge of thebesnow? Is Many? I assume,
which is great or Alfred Anock possibly? So yeah, of course we
(46:55):
get Alfred Enoch, of course,William Hart No, No, I'm blanking
out his William Russell yes, WilliamRussell's son of First Doctor companionhid fame um
so and of course Albert has hisown career, not to define him by
his parenthedge. She's had his ownacting career. So absolutely it seems to
be doing quite well with its cheers. Well, we hope you enjoyed that
(47:17):
it's available to watch on the NationalTheater at home. I believe it's still
available to watch watch all of them, Watch all of them. Frankenstein was
amazing, there's still they still haveAngels in America or both parts that we
wanted to watch, and I thinkthey had media on there, if I'm
not mistaken, a bunch of stuff. That's another one i'd like to,
you know, to play with.So well, until next time, continuing
(47:42):
joing the Doctors and many adventures throughouttime and space. This is BBC Television.
Welcome to the Nerd Party. Welcometo a Time of Space, a Doctor
(00:36):
Who podcast. I'm Jessica Nunn andI'm our husband and co host, Philip
Dolphus. Well, we've returned fromvacation which gave us an opportunity to get
involved in some Doctor Who that wehaven't done in a while. Oh yes,
because with the COVID for the pastyear, we don't usually go on
(00:56):
any long car trips anymore. Right, I mean, let's not say it
like it's now we're never doing itagain. We're just currently not very often
going on long car trips. Butwe did recently when we went to the
beach. We did go to thebeach and that's about three and a half
hour to drive, so plenty oftime for a buck set, that's right.
(01:18):
So we're going to talk about anotherbig finished production and keeping with our
order, not about the Eighth Doctor, but another series that we've been listening
to, and that's The Diary ofRiver Song. Hooray. We'll be talking
about series four, which was releasedSeptember twenty eighteen, which I mean I
was looking at this up. We'rehalfway through. There have been eight series
(01:38):
at this point. Okay, soif you like it, there's more of
it. Well, there you go. If you don't, I don't know
what to tell you. So howcan you not? Like I was going
to ask, you know, thisis our fourth one. We'll get into,
but the other three not that I'masking you to remember all of them
at once. Yeah, but whathave you thought about them so far?
In if it helps you remember,you know, they sort of go are
(02:00):
doing the backwards count of doctors.I think they started with eight and the
head of seven. Yeah, vaguely. Yeah. I mean I like river
Song, so I'm going to enjoyit. Do you like that they've had
the sort of serialization and each boxset that it's not just episodics. Yes,
yeah, I think so, althoughit takes me a little bit of
(02:22):
time to remember that, particularly withthis one. You know, I was
sort of tuktoo going along and episodethree or whatever, and then I was
like, oh, we're still onthese guys, oh the demon guys.
And for Inside the Tartest Library asegment we're gonna talk about something that we
actually watched several weeks ago, butwe didn't talk about it. They're gonna
(02:44):
talk about it now. And wetalked about it amongst ourselves. It wasn't
like the show ended and we satin silence for some time. It's actually
what we normally do for most ofthese things, a little bit of awkward
silo. Let's we save it upfor the podcast and let me just look
at the cat for a while,speak to each other again. But yeah,
(03:06):
we'll be talking about Antigony, theNational Theater production that starred, among
others, Christopher eccleston and Jody Whittaker. Dan, Well, we'll get to
it. I mean, in thecourse, very important role that I want
to say, starring U. Butlet's get into it. So, like
I said, we're gonna talk aboutseries four, and I thought, I
don't know, you can change usif you want. I thought, for
(03:28):
the sake of discussion, since welistened to two episodes going and then listen
to two episodes coming back, Ithought we sort of split it up in
discussion between each of the two partstwo episodes, you know, eleven two
second intermission. I guess, Idon't know. But the two episodes we
listened to in one sitting or carride as it were, were Time and
a Bottle by Emma Reeves and MattFitton. And then Kings of Infinite Space
(03:53):
by Donald McCleary. So you wantto read those two summaries, I will
so Time and a Bottle. Riveris recruited by a rival to explore a
star system where time no longer exists. Professor Jemima Still has picked up a
signal from an impossible source and takesan expert team to investigate. But their
(04:16):
mission is about to unleash hell uponthe universe dot dot dot and then Kings
of Infinite Space, with the Discordiaon their tail, River and her friends
running for their lives across time andspace. But when your opponent can twist
cause an effect to ensure victory atevery turn, then escape may well be
(04:40):
impossible. So how do you likethe setup for this story of you know,
River Song recruited for a mission,and you know, I liked that.
I liked I liked the first one. It was a little bit because
they did a little bit of timejumping, didn't they, um because the
demon and would show up and wehadn't gotten to that part yet kind of
(05:02):
stuff. Um, But I thoughtit was an interesting premise. I liked
the idea of this is how Riverlives her life you know, taking on
projects and things like that, andshe talks about her fee and I thought
it was interesting that she was witha rival from university, and you know,
(05:24):
I thought it was set up verynicely and introduced to some interesting characters.
You know, you don't often getor we don't have to get these
sort of um you know, academicside of River Song. I mean she
is a doctor of archaeology professor orif you will, and um, so
yeah, it was kind of funnythat you know, she has a fellow,
you know, doctorate classmate too.She you know, different teaching methods
(05:47):
and she sort of looks down andall that stuff. So well, and
they fought over a boway, ohthat's true. That's true. Well,
I don't know if River fought overwell, yes, that is true.
River Song had a day with aboy and it was just one date and
it was a boy that Jemima reallyfancied, and so they fell out and
(06:08):
River was wildly indifferent and Jemima marriedhim. That's right there, you got
so um, what do you thinkis sort of we get these different alien
species so I'm actually forget they're allcars, um the types of Yeah,
there's gamma ray is not a NAMA'sspelled gammera I think anyway, Yeah,
I think they made jokes about howthat they took off at the cast to
(06:30):
figure out how to pronounce it.But um, she I guess it was
like an insect race, right,yes, yeah, aunt or something like
that. They they mentioned that inthe extras, but I don't know necessarily
that I got that and specifically inmy head. Yeah, I mean sort
(06:50):
of you know, the queen youknow in the story, yes, home
hive or whatever, I don't know, and then you had sort of the
I don't know. I was picturinghim more of a robot, but I
think it's supposed to be more cyborgy. The I don't know what he's called,
not battle bot, because that's thedifferent kind of thing. But anyway,
the war borg is that what theycalled it. Anyway, I think
(07:11):
that's what they called it. Idon't know. Yes, whatever his name
was, he was quite interesting.And at that say, I liked gom
Gomara. I feel like it wassimilar to Goma. Think, yeah,
so the Gamara is what we're goingwith. Sure, Um. I liked
(07:33):
the idea of river traveling with companions, and so I was sad that they
didn't travel with her for very longnow, And what did you sort of
think of the introduction of the badguy or bad guys the Discordia. And
then I guess specifically was Melock whateverhis name was, Melock, Melock,
(07:54):
that's it, Yeah, Melock,Yeah it was. That was an interesting
twist two things. Again, Ididn't get at the time that they had
frozen, like the whole we frozentime, but we can also go back
in time. All of that wasa little bit and I actually forget,
(08:20):
and I'm sure that was explaining.I just forget. I forget how you
know they traveled to this place wheretime had been taken out. I don't
know, um yea, And soeverybody was just sort of yeah and frozen.
And you know, river Song basicallyhelps Jemima with like creating a time
bubble for lack of a better word, so they could travel into this place
and have actual time. But Iforget how it happened. I mean,
(08:41):
it's assuming it's something with a Discordiaor something. But I remember why time
got sucked out of it? YeahI can. Yeah, And they go
Because Jemima has received these readings whichseemed to suggest that it's the doctor asking
help um and so that is whatpeaks river songs interest in this. No,
(09:07):
but it's all deception. Yeah,and I think this first episode could
be I mean it doesn't, butit could almost be a standalone stand alone
because there's actually a lot in it. For just one episode. You have
to set up, but then youhave to travel to the Hive. You
get all the Hive stuff, andthen they find the ship where Meylack me
(09:28):
Maylack is and then he you know, you have that back and forth between
you know, Jemima's, oh,she's the villain. Turn it turns out
maybe, and then no, no, Maylock's the villain, and then he
reveals that he's secretly the Discordia andthen you know it's all a trick or
something, and then you know nowand they've awakened everything and all bad stuff.
(09:50):
And so it was pretty good forall that. Yes, the second
one I really didn't like. Idon't know how you thought. To me,
it was just sort of like thisis when River's basically being chaste and
using her vortex manipulator. It justseemed like, you know, she pressed
the vortex and then they arrive andthey'd have a would establish they'd encounter some
random character and wherever place I landed, and then the Discordia would show up
(10:15):
kill that person, and then andthen they've meet someone else then and then
Scordia shot up and they killed thatcharacter. So a lot of people die.
Yeah, like whole planets. Theywere kind of wiping out whole planets.
Um, and and that I wasn'tcrazy about. I liked a little
bit. Um the Robot River okay, oh yeah, oh yeah, that's
(10:37):
true. Yeah, that set upat the beginning of this episode, episode
two, right, um, andso that was interesting. But then it
was frustrating because the robot River kepttelling the Discordia where they were and so
and everybody was getting sick and seriously, everybody died. Oh yeah, it's
just I mean, it's it's aninteresting sort of snippet of oh here's this
(11:03):
species, and oh here's this species, and oh here's this rat guy and
oh yeah. And it was alsoI found it frustrating because even when they
thought they were safe, even justfor a minute, they weren't. Like
they run into the rat guy andthen the rat guys like, oh,
(11:24):
come on, i'll help you,I'll help you, and They're like,
oh, we can take a breakfor just a minute, but turns out
the rat guy wanted to eat them, that's right. And then the Discordia
show you know, it just feelslike they could not catch a freaking break.
They land on the water park planetand or planet that just has water
(11:45):
parks. Yeah, yeah, andthe tour guides they are the Australian guy
and it just and then the Discordiashow back. They just don't there's no
chance to breathe. I guess,which is part of what they're trying trying
to do. Um. Yeah,I mean from a story or from a
writer or standpoint, I guess it'sfine to create a bunch of different characters
(12:07):
and have them to make an impactand you know three pages or two pages
or whatever, but it just doesan audience. It's just exhausting. I'm
like, there's just there's nothing goingon in this episode. I mean,
I mean plot wise, there's nothinggoing Yeah. It was. It was
the what is it the fourth episodeof the fifth episode of all the sixth
series. Yeah, it just teststo sort of. It established the fact
(12:31):
that the Discordia could go back intime and change things. It established them
as World Killers. All of thosethings needed to happen. We needed to
know that before we could move tothe other one. So us move to
the other one. Yeah. So, I don't know, did you when
you you know, when we arrivedto our destination? I mean, well,
(12:52):
what were you thinking would happen inthe next two episodes? Or did
you no idea? No idea,no idea? I was really glad I
was at the beach. Okay,now, I don't know. You probably
didn't think about or even see thecover knowing that there would be another doctor's
showing up. Correct. Yeah.So so then we go into sort of
the next two episodes, we haveWho Done It? Also by Matt Fitton
(13:15):
and then Someone I Once Knew byJohn Dorney. So would you like to
synopsize those too, please? WhoDone It? Melody Malone finds herself in
a castle with an assortment of strangecompanions, but guests are being murdered one
by one. Time is running outfor a mystery to be solved, and
Franz Kafka is hiding something in theattic and someone I once knew River has
(13:43):
tried in vain to keep the Discordiaaway from the doctor. Now as Devil's
run riot through universal spacetime, herown past with her husband is being rewritten.
There's one last hope for the universe, a love story, but one
that must find an ending. Thewho done it? For me? Like
(14:05):
a with the second episode that wetalk, you know, everything's Jude,
you know the Chase Chase, ChaseChase. He kind of gets a little
mun uh mix up in your head. But I don't know. But I
clearly understood all the characters and allthat I think with who had done it.
What they were doing was interesting,But I couldn't keep all the characters
straight. Like, Okay, Iknew the dog, there's the dog.
I got the dog. I knewthere was the highly crazy French accent guy
(14:28):
who supposed to be poor Row.I got it. I got that one
huh um. And other than that, I'm like, there's like another guy,
there's a woman, one with aBritish accent, and one who's a
British person doing an American accent.I didn't feel the need to keep the
characters in my head. My Ithought this was cute. I enjoyed it.
What I didn't understand was why shedid it, And they explain it,
(14:50):
yeah, and I still don't understandwhy she did it. Yeah.
And the one than then you havefriends France, it's Kafco Frons. Well
they keep saying France and I'm likethat it's Franz. I believe it is
how you would say it. Ais doing a lot of work. Um,
but because I really thought his namewas France, because I don't know,
(15:11):
it was Cofco for a little bit, um in the accents weird too,
But anyway, all that said,um, yeah, I mean I
get that she's trying to hide,but then it's they tried to convolute that
even more and I'm like, youlost me, soche tartists, because then
it's not that I didn't understand,but it lost me a little bit because
they were kind of doing flashbacks atthe end, I guess explainingly yes,
(15:35):
and it kind of got muddled.And then four words and because Cofco was
there with her, but he wasalso in the bed dying, and that
was all weird. Interesting though.This one got stuck in my head because
the premise was that they'd all beeninvited to solve this murder and the winner
(15:56):
gets the manner. Yes, yes, yes, the person who solves it
gets the manor house. And sothen a couple of nights ago, I
dreamt that you and I were gettingmarried again, okay, and we were
doing it at a manor house,and neither one of us was particularly happy.
Sounds right, which yeah, alltracks so far. It was like
(16:18):
an autobiography dream. But we weregoing to get the manor and we were
being shown around the manor and Iwas like, oh, look at those
ceiling beams and yeah, so itended up in my head and they're like,
that's a conservatory on like trek room. And then at some point I
left for a while and came back, and then I couldn't find you,
(16:41):
and you had a whole bunch ofrelatives there and none of them liked me
very much. So really it wasa lot like our wedding. Yeah,
Soultrey House. How would you thinkof because again doesn't really mean much to
me. What did you think ofthe COFCO connection? Yeah, it was.
I don't think I've I, likemany people, I don't know if
(17:03):
we read the whole thing. Iremember reading a bit of the Metamorphosis in
high school. Is it like reallyshort? Is it a short story?
Relatively short? We read the wholething. I don't I don't know.
It just seemed like it was justa couple of pages in the literature book,
know when you're you know, atextbook. Um, so I don't
know, but I mean I amfamiliar with it, but I mean I
can't ever forget how it is welland then yeah, and then familiar with
(17:26):
it all. Yeah, yeah,it was. I don't know if that
was included because the writer was failingparticularly clever I got to write the story
what's on my book show here,or or if he was trying to work
(17:48):
a little bit absurdist, you know, if the story itself was absurdist and
so surreal. So referring back toKafka and okay, maybe, um,
because I mean I like, youknow, it's very doctor who to have
the historical figure be the companion,So I mean I like that, but
it was still because I mean thatdoes I mean, I guess I'm complaining
(18:12):
when I say this, but Idon't mean too because it's such a mystery.
You don't really get to spend timewith him because you're like, is
it him? Is it not him? Is he really? Is he not
real? What's real? What's notreal some people could see him and some
people couldn't, but you don't fundthat out until later on. Yeah,
and then I was also trying tofigure out who everyone was supposed to be,
Like, okay, the dogs ScoobyDoo and then the guy's poor Row.
I don't know who the other peopleare supposed to be. Yeah,
(18:33):
I don't know if they're supposed tobe one at all, but anyway,
but they're like the Melody Malone connection. You don't they don't pull that one
out or no, And I agree, I liked that too, so yeah,
yeah, so it was it wastough to keep track because then the
answer is like, oh, it'sall just a tartest psychedelic mind, and
I'm like, oh, okay,so it doesn't really matter who like,
(18:55):
the mystery doesn't matter. I meanthat's basically the answer, right. Well,
that was a waste of time.Yeah, And honestly, with these
um audio books, I tend tosort of have to let them wash over
me if I get too caught upand what I don't understand or what I'm
not picturing, well, it's justgonna get muddled for me because it's like
(19:18):
the two ladies together. So they'refree. I'm like, what's nice?
Been like, wait, I knowthis was real. Why does it matter?
I don't know, because they werereal to themselves and yeah that made
them real. Yeah it gets alittle again, Yeah, it gets a
little Kafka esque. Yeah to methat that lost me a little. I
mean, I don't know. Maybemy artsy farts in this has a limit,
(19:40):
but I'm like, yes, we're'sreal and characters can be real to
No, they're not, though,that's I mean, I get the like
from a writing stame. Wait withthat, they're I mean it seems like
but they have to leaf in thatnow now they're not so and yeah,
yeah, I mean I get whatyou're trying to do. But too much?
Too much? Yeah, but Ienjoyed that one. And then we
(20:02):
get the doctor. Yes, thedefinite optical, you might say, yeah,
and a little bit of Dickens.Yeah. So do you think of
having Tom Baker is the doctor?Yeah? And again it started off confusing
because he's like, of course Iknow who you are a river song and
we've spent all this time together andremember that time with unit and she doesn't
(20:27):
remember any of it. And I'mlike, well, that's not at all,
Cannon stop that, but they explainedit. It was a clever way
to give them that connection without muckingabout with the timeline. And I do
appreciate without meaning too that they areabout probably where we are in our watch,
(20:48):
because you got to hear that.Apparently Harry Sullivan has a thing for
river I guess or something. Therewas some sort of alcohol. Yeah,
I think she may have hit himor something. I don't know, so,
um yeah, and this Harry Sullivanwould totally have a thing for a
river song, but not be ableto form coherent sentences. It would probably
say something misogynist maybe, Um,you know you're one tough bird day Yeah,
(21:14):
yeah, um, because I thinkthe challenge not in a bad way
because it's river Song, so it'sgoing to be about river song. You
know, that's what she signed upfor. Um. But you have the
doctor, so he's going to haveto have kind of a prominent role.
And so they do split the charactersand so give them kind of their own
stories and typical doctor whose style that'sthat's not a complaint, but it was
(21:36):
interesting. I don't know what wouldyou think of, um, how they
handled the doctor. You know,you've only gotten one full series with him.
I mean, you've seen a littlebit, but would you think of
how that he was handled? Andyou know, I heard you scoffed during
the extras when they're like, oh, he sounds just like he did,
and you're like, which I translated. I was like, now he's old.
Yeah, And that was okay,and so and particularly, I guess
(22:00):
because Tom Baker is so ubiquitous,Um, hearing him, I'm picturing old
Tom Baker, right, And sothat was a little strange if that's not
what they were going for. Butit didn't. It didn't. I didn't
find it jarring until I thought toohard about it, and then I was
like, well, he's not thedoctor as an old guy. He's that
(22:22):
caretaker at the museum. Um.But I did picture him as as old
doctor. But like I said,I didn't find it jarring at all.
Yeah, I did. I mean, you know, because you have to
think about the well, I thinkabout the writing. You have to sort
of capture that character and you know, well you do whatever you want,
of course if you're the writer,but you don't want to be too cartoon.
(22:45):
He's kind of like Star Trek,you know. Of course, the
original stories you don't want to doa cartoon interpretation. You know, if
you know it, you know howto write it, but you don't want
to do like that's cartooning. Let'syou know, have Kirk makeout and you
know McCoy yell at Spoker. Youknow, I mean that it's there,
but that's not what it is.And so how are you gonna write the
Fourth Doctor? But I thought theydid very well. He could sort of,
you know, um, pretend tobe foolish. He never really had
(23:07):
his serious moment because he pretends tobe foolish, but of course he knows
what he's doing. But that's,you know whatever. I thought it was
very well. You can, youknow, connecting to with um, forget
the woman's name that he connects with, and who's memorize all the codes,
who kind of becomes his mini companionif you will. Yeah, um,
yeah. And there was a littleTimmy Wyman but that was fine. I
sirs, yep um. And thisis sort of the ending, of course,
(23:30):
with the Discordia and trying to makeit a love story, which which
was fine. I'm trying to remember, you know, the river narration kind
of reminds me of the you know, her first appearance in the library,
because she kind of does the narrationfor the two part of their um to
it kind of brings to mind thatum. But I don't know, what
would you think of how we gotrid of the Discordia. That worked for
(23:56):
me completely. I wish that someof that world had been built more so
throughout, like the Emperor, Yeah, because I mean, because that's how
I was thinking throughout the story,or at least the second half that you
(24:18):
know, this guy's obviously a conqueror. You know, he's Caesar, he's
whatever, Alexander, you know whatever. He's conquered the universe, and now
he feels bad about it. Youknow. I'm like, okay, well,
you know, now he's going todestroy his whole entire civilization. I'm
like, okay, must have beena change of thought there. But yeah,
there's that, And there's no mentionof him, Like it feels mostly
(24:42):
throughout this, particularly in the secondepisode, that it's just the one Discordia
who has an army, yeah,and he's the one destroying everybody. There's
no mention of an emperor. There'sno mention that everybody in Discordia does this.
There's no mention that this Discordia guy, who is a relatively new Discordia
(25:06):
guy anyway, is now all ofa sudden in charge and able to destroy
all these planets, and how doesthat work out? And now the Emperor
is here and there's a picture andoh so it makes it hard to feel
those stakes when there's so little payoffand the beginning, which I didn't understand,
(25:30):
but then you're not supposed to somethingfind out the end of what it
is. But what threw me offabout the beginning of this episode where where
you find out ultimately that it's theEmperor and his consort. It's not that
I'm the fan, but just becauseit's in my mind, it just seemed
very Star Wars here that it's DarthVader and Leia at the beginning of episode
four or the first Star Horse movie, depending on how you call it.
(25:52):
You know, where he blows upall Duran with the gust star, just
like, that's exactly. I don'tknow if they mentally I pictured, I'm
like, you know, there goesyour planet. You know, that's basically
what happens in this one um Andso I was thrown off. I'm like,
why are we doing Star Wars um, yeah, I have no idea
what you're talking about. That's okay, Um, it worked for me ultimately,
(26:15):
Again, if I start poking atthings and what would you think if
I just let it wash over me. One thing I thought was interesting,
I mean in that creating this lovestory. They create three of them,
which is purposeful of course, butyou know, I think it's nice to
do in one episode or you haveto create you know that you want to
(26:37):
do a love story. I meanit's more than that, but that's the
setup. But you have not that. You know, at the time,
you have the Emperor and his consortone, then you have the Doctrine River
two, and then you have theGeneral creepy General and River three. So
you kind of create this sort ofyou know, parallels. That's all right,
right, word um, but anywayof the different ways of looking at
it, Um, I thought whatyou think is sort of the the Discordia,
(27:00):
General and River. I thought itwas very interesting. And I don't
know if there's any commentary happening orjust I mean, I you know,
maybe it needs to be said.Ultimately, the General is Malick, right,
No, he's if I remember correctly, it's a little fuzzy Malick is
the main bad guy of this wholebox set, and then he gets like
(27:23):
blown up. I think remember whenthe head and then the General comes in
and doesn't save them and like I'lltake charge now because you're stupid, um.
And then this the General takes overas the new baddy. Okay,
yeah, and see that's silly.I think that I would have appreciated it
more if it were Malick because he'dbeen out on a date with river Song
(27:44):
and so there at least would havebeen something that paid off. Yeah,
this is sort of the because youreally, I don't know, brid just
comes across as your sort of standardvillainy, creepy guy, which whatever,
I'll go with it, you know, the sort of like, no,
you will come to my kingdom andbe my queen. You know standards,
it's standard. And she's like I'mnot eating that pomegranate for you. Um.
(28:06):
But then it's like revealed that allthe discord you have to take non
Discordia as their consorts and Jean Pooland blah blah blah. And then I
guess she's turned him on by beingso hard to get and I don't know,
I don't know I don't know.Yeah, I mean it's I mean,
it's not supposed to be good,so you know it's it's it's perfect
the whole like saying out loud likewhat we all know and maybe these have
(28:30):
you said out loud of like that'snot how someone like you know you get
something to like you. She's like, yes, none of that's gonna make
me like you. That you havepower and I destroyed this planet for you.
No, She's like, what doyou what do you expect to happen
because nothing's happening right now and it'snot ever going to happen and you can't
force feelings. And I'm like,who is this? Is there an audience
that we need to be reaching out? I mean, evidently there was based
(28:51):
on things that happened in the world, but I don't know if I did
appreciate the fact that for the emperorto go back and get his consort,
so for the emperor to have hishappy ending River and the fourth Doctor have
to lose theirs, right, Yeah, And which is weird? Well,
(29:15):
it's different. I'll use that differentword, um because more or less classic
doctors tend to be very asexual,and so I've not I mean we've only
seen the one series, but youknow, he's just I've seen enough of
that. I'm pretty sure I've neverseen the Fourth Doctor be romantic. Um,
you know, maybe we'll find itand we'll stumble upon something. So
(29:37):
that was different, which I knowTom Baker and the extras was talking about
that, Well, maybe we canwe can explore this more because I mean,
I'm sure as an actor you'd liketo play romance every now and then.
Um been, I don't know,it's been so much. You like,
you like that character or what youthink that character is. But so
it's unusual I think that to haveromance from a classic doctor. You know.
But we'll get that here. Butagain, one of the things that
(30:02):
and you know we talked about thiswhen we were talking to shar and the
Tenth Doctor. I still see itas romance with a capital R rather than
romance with a little R. Youknow, it didn't feel like they were
making out. Yeah, like hewas like, oh I'm gonna miss you.
(30:22):
Wink wink, nudge, nudge.It was you know, we've had
all these adventures. It just feelsgrand. It sucks great memories. Yeah,
yeah, capital R romance and soagain, it doesn't. I don't
see it. I mean, eventhe flirtation is almost stylized. Yeah,
(30:44):
And I think that the premise ofthis whole thing was that, oh,
you know, we're gonna get TomBaker and um Alex. Uh yeah,
Alex, that's all you need toknow. I don't know, it's not
coming Tony Kingston Kingston together and sparkswill fly because they're both crazy people.
And I was like, I don'tknow that really happened. I mean,
(31:04):
I get that. I would havethought that too, And I'm not saying
it it's bad, but I'm justlike, uh, you know, yeah,
you know, I mean I getthere. You know, they're both
sort of troublemakers. I mean,I don't know how Alex isn't real life,
but the character of River and thecharacter of Tom Baker Slash the doctor.
You know, you're thinking trouble there. And I was like, yeah,
it's regular, you know. Imean, you know, we tried
(31:25):
it. We all thought it wasgonna be something crazy. Yeah, it
was fine, it's fine, itwas fine. But they were also stuck
in the confines of their story.Yeah, um, which didn't help.
You know, it sounded like they'vehad some great and I would like to
hear about those. Also, Ithink we should get River Song in the
(31:47):
Eleventh Doctor together because lesbiandas those wereboth some crazy kids. All right,
well, any what were your finalfinal thoughts about the series four of The
Diary of Riversong. Yeah. Ilove Alex Kingston. I think she's great.
She has a gorgeous voice. Icould listen to her for a long
(32:07):
time. Yeah. Yeah, Ienjoyed it. I mostly enjoyed it.
I almost feel like they could goepisodic. Honestly, they don't need to
have a hole because I feel like, you know, that discorre it kind
of got too much after a while. In other words, like as in
like they're so which I guess isthe point. They're so powerful, and
I don't know how you defeat them. You know, you've made it too
(32:28):
Yeah, so I just a smallerday in the life that would be fine
for me. Well, And itwas also like what does River do when
she's not with the Doctor? Andit could it didn't have to be like
in places it felt a little tenuous, like the who done it right?
The Who Done It would have beena great standalone episode of you know,
(32:50):
I've gone into gone into my ownmind for this specific reason, and but
as part of this, it justdidn't It wasn't as great as I think
it could have been. Cool.All right, Well, with that,
let's go into the tartest library,which who when you close your eyes,
(33:12):
go to the library. Go tothe library now, and now we're going
to talk about the performance or productionof Antigony, put on at the National
Theater in twenty twelve, and amongothers, it starred Christopher Eccleston, the
ninth doctor in the role of creonum or Um, Jody Whittaker, the
(33:36):
thirteenth doctor, as the titular character, and then another doctor who connection yes,
as a member of the chorus.It was Alfred Anak. Yeah,
so sort of it. Well,I don't know this, this is you
know, you're going to be youryour your thing to talk about yourself.
I'll set the table here for thoseum familiar or not familiar with antigny the
(33:59):
Greek trash um. But the directorm of this production sort of set it
in a modern contemporary setting. Um. The chorus was sort of there was
sort of an underground bunker um,I guess following a war and so the
course was sort of the underlings ofCreon there, you know, the staff
(34:20):
of if you will, of thisgeneral leader whatever, and so that was
sort of an interesting way I thoughtto use the course because it all seems
like because I mean, I've seenthat we've we went to I'm sure even
too many JSKA, but I've onlybeen to one production when we went to
when we went to Fable um.So that was sort of a classical,
if you will, production of Antigony. Um. So the course I always
(34:40):
think of as the course, butthis had I not known, just seems
like they just have a bunch ofcharacters at Selon. Yes, so I
thought it was very well done.I suppose I don't know how your strong
filings are maintaining a course course.No, not not in any sort of
real everybody has to speak um togetherkind of thing. And I'm actually utilizing
(35:01):
the technique of chorus in a showI'm directing at the minute um when I
did Antigony, because the idea ofantigony is um societal rules versus um legal
legal rules. Yeah, yeah,military versus society and those sorts of things.
(35:24):
I'm reading a legal jurisprudential nerd book. So you could say positivists legal
positivism, positivism, I'm not sayingthat. Read word positive verse or verse.
Natural law. So natural law beingwherever you think things come from,
you know, God or from nature, that there's natural law or you know
(35:45):
society's laws, right, yes,yes, um. And so my chorus,
and part of that was because ofwho auditioned. I had a bunch
of young kids or young people auditions, and so I cast them as school
kids. I cast the chorus asschool kids, and they were all in
(36:05):
school uniforms, and at the startof it were very much, you know,
all put together and the tie isdone up and everything. And as
the story progresses, the chorus becomesmore and more disillusioned with Creon's rule,
the rule of law, and sothe ties get undone and the shirts come
(36:27):
untucked, and so you can watchthat breakdown throughout the chorus, which I
thought was genius. But yeah,yeah, the third of the theban plays
my personal favorite. Yeah. Soall right, so there's Oedipus rex of
(36:49):
m and then there's the second what'sthe second Oedipus at Cologna's okay, is
that where we get to see thebrothers fighting. No, no, you
never get to say this is great, darling, this is Greek. You
never see deaths on stuff. Ijust figured, you know, whatever the
prequel to Antigny was, I justassumed it was the actual. But it's
just sort of we're going to tellyou what happened. Yeah, pretty much,
(37:12):
And again I showed it. Ihad a scrim and so I had
the fight between the brothers um behindthe scram at the beginning, and then
I had Antigony and Hayman's death alsobehind the scram so that they could see
it. But yeah, um,yeah, just the second one I didn't
(37:35):
ever hear anything about. No,nobody ever does it. It's basically Edipus
alone on a mountain, okay kindof stuff. Yeah, It's just it's
not you get Oedipus. If youget Antigony, you don't often get the
middle one. Well, what doyou think of this production and the two
performances in particular, Yes, Idon't know. And don't get me wrong,
British theater is one of my favoritethings ever. But because British theater
(38:01):
is sometimes more stylized than American theater, thinking about things like um, a
curious incident of the dog in thenmetein you know, where there's the devising
and the moving around and everything's justslightly more stylized. It doesn't versus a
(38:21):
static stage, well no versus arealism kind of. I feel like,
oh, because in American productions,it's because we bigger, is better.
We want to show everything, wewant to have everything versus British and you're
supposed to imagine. Yes, andagain that's one of my favorite things about
(38:45):
British theater. But I think thatsometimes it's easy to get as performers caught
up in that and lose some ofthe realism and the emotion it um.
And so that was my issue.I didn't feel like actors were pushed hard
(39:07):
enough. Okay, what do youthink of christ in his Creon role?
Yeah? I think Chris eccleston ina lot of ways, how working class
did he make this general a littlebit? But here's the thing about Creon
is that Creon is the isn't alittle bit where he is a little bit
(39:27):
You got out and interrupt he becausehe's not supposed to be royalist royalist right,
Well, because Creon wasn't supposed tobe King right. Um, you
know, Oedipus was king and thenit was going to go to one of
the sons, and because everything wentall tits up, now Creon's king,
so more men of the people,Yes, And I think that. So
(39:49):
I think that it was a rolethat fits Eccleston very well because of that,
and you can sort of feel it. And I think that's part of
Creon's tight grip on the law isbecause he doesn't necessarily feel like he's the
rightful person for the job. Yeah. Yeah, I feel sorry for him
(40:10):
in a way. Oh absolutely,actually a lot of ways, because I
mean he gives this big speech moreor less at the beginning where it's like,
you know, I'm going to bea king of the people. You
know, I'm with you, I'mbut you know, but I'm also no
special interest, right, you know, we're all wrong on this together.
We all have the same rule.Yeah, when I say something, I'm
gonna do it. There's not gonnaany favoritism. You know, you gotta
(40:34):
follow the law. I gotta followthe law. And that's basically three fours
to play. Everyone's like, yeah, that's awesome, and then it's like
there's something his family get involved,about who gets to barry who, and
then he's like, no, no, I'm sticking with what I said because
you know, everyone's the same.And then like three fourths to the way
the core is representing, you know, everyone is like, no, you
should make an exception, and he'slike, okay, really, I mean
(40:54):
like it just seems very anti uhwell people of course populus not first of
all, it's not quite that sortof abrupt change, but it never the
chorus isn't saying make an exception becauseshe's your niece. They're saying make an
exception because you can understand her perspectiveof both sides, and you know,
(41:22):
really, we're going to execute ayoung girl. That's not okay. I
just feel like they turned really hardon him. Like he's like, well,
I mean he's even added in holidaycharacters or whether there or whether they're
all supposed to be in the chorus, but like he has an advisor.
It's like that's what I should do, right, or that's what I'm gonna
do. And they're like, yeah, great idea, boss, yes man,
And then like three fours of whydid you do that? Boss?
(41:44):
That was like you because he waswell and I think it's also a um
to treatise or whatever. On It'sreally easy to make laws when you're not
thinking about individuals. It's like thethree strikes and you're out drug laws that
we had in the California in eightiesand nineties and those sorts of things.
(42:09):
That sounds fantasy. Yes, waron drugs, let's be tough on that.
Realistically, though, you got aguy who got caught with a joint
and is now doing twenty years inprison, you know, and so that
whole Yes, tough on crime,creon, Yes, tough on crime.
(42:30):
But then when you start to seethe real effects of it and the real
circumstances of real people. It's notthat Antigony was a trader. It's not
even that she supported the traders,but she loved her brother and you know,
(42:51):
and so it's the difference between thisis black and this is white.
And actually there's some nuance that wedid not consider and maybe we should have
done. Yeah, I thought,I thought, I mean, we know
what well I know and what Isaw that Chris did well, you know,
obviously it's a tragedy and I'm surehe likes that. Um. Yeah,
and Antigony's a little bit like JuliusCaesar. Uh, you know,
(43:15):
Julius Caesar, the Shakespeare play isnot about Julius Caesar at all. And
Antigny. I've never seen Julius Caesarat tarling. That's an inside jack that
we are not going to talk abouthere. Um. Of course, Antigony
is very much about Antigony, butshe's not the person who is. She
(43:37):
gives about three about speeches and that'sabout all you see. Well, she's
just not the one that gets caughtup on her own tubris kind of thing
like Oedipus does. Um. Itis Creon who who ultimately is felled by
his staunch adherent adherents. Yeah,and brought to task by exactly the same
(43:59):
person at a pus was by Teresiuson the blind prophet, who may be
a man maybe a woman who knowsTeresius apparently can two spiritual yep, can
go back and forth. Yeah.And so how did you think Jody affaired
in her brief appearance, Yeah,not brief anti main character. What you
(44:23):
just said, she's just not theone that falls. Um. Yes,
again, I wanted to see becauseAntigony has just the tragedy ant in Antigony's
life is ridiculous, and so Iwant to see that, and I'm not
(44:45):
sure I did quite as much asI wanted to. Yeah, and I
assume another attraction not to get intohis head, but that's what we do
now in our house, and toget into Eccleston's head. You have obviously
Jody, another Northerner, and sothis is sort of I mean, there's
other actors and I'm not remembering alltheir accents off the top of my head,
but so you sort of have aGreek tragedy done in the Northern style.
(45:07):
So absolutely, but again introducing thosevoices. I love this show and
I think it is universal. It'swell, I was gonna say it's very
Shakespeare. You'd say, shakes,we're just stole from them. M oh
yeah, But I mean it justthat's what it strikes me because you sort
of have which I'm againting the Greeksgraded it. So let's just say it's
(45:28):
very Greeky in um, but let'sgo with Greian instead of Greeky and or
a U or an Urn. What'swrong with you? It really earned it?
But anyway, um, but havingthis sort of the tragedy would then
have sort of the comic character,which obviously Shakespeare always steal um the guard
(45:51):
character who gives just sort of hisRambley Guard comic monologue. Um, and
you sort of go back and forthfrom there. But yeah, you have
those tragic romance. You have lotsof killing yourselves, you know, one,
two, three, right, Yeah, Antigny, the son who's going
I can't remember. And then thewife. Yeah, Creon's wife, queen.
(46:13):
I'm sure she has a name.Yeah. My Creon was amazing better
than Chris dak He was just verygood, Okay, because again he had
that grief at the end of thisjust loss. He just did a he
turned in a fantastic performance. Doeshe kill himself at the end? Who
(46:34):
kills him? Or just he livesin lives He's just wandering that what happens
to him now you're thinking about it? Yeah, I don't know. He's
just covered in blood and like aI don't work out, Yeah, curtain.
Yeah, who's in charge of thebesnow? Is Many? I assume,
which is great or Alfred Anock possibly? So yeah, of course we
(46:55):
get Alfred Enoch, of course,William Hart No, No, I'm blanking
out his William Russell yes, WilliamRussell's son of First Doctor companionhid fame um
so and of course Albert has hisown career, not to define him by
his parenthedge. She's had his ownacting career. So absolutely it seems to
be doing quite well with its cheers. Well, we hope you enjoyed that
(47:17):
it's available to watch on the NationalTheater at home. I believe it's still
available to watch watch all of them, Watch all of them. Frankenstein was
amazing, there's still they still haveAngels in America or both parts that we
wanted to watch, and I thinkthey had media on there, if I'm
not mistaken, a bunch of stuff. That's another one i'd like to,
you know, to play with.So well, until next time, continuing
(47:42):
joing the Doctors and many adventures throughouttime and space. This is BBC Television.
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