The Doctor Dies at the End

Series 6 - Matt Smith

Unofficial third co-host and first-time Who watcher Char pops in again! This time, it's her initial watch of Series 6, the sophomore year of the Eleventh Doctor and his companions. From episode one, kicking off the story arc and setting up several mysteries, thru the revelation about River Song's identity, to ending with a "reset" of the Doctor's story - there's a lot to get thru. What was your favorite moment of this series?

Episode Transcript

(00:03):
Welcome to the nerd Pulte. Welcometo Time and Space, a Doctor Who

(00:30):
podcast. I'm Jessica Nunn and I'mour husband and co hosts Philip Gilphis.
Well, we are fresh fresh offour regular flu shots. We are,
Yes, yes, got flu shottedtoday. I had to pay for mine,
but that's all right, paying forhealthcare loser and Dad and Dave.

(00:52):
Al Right, Well, um,we talked last. We talked last time
about series thirteen, and so we'regoing to continue talking about another series of
Doctor Who. But this time we'regonna bring back our favorite first time and
who here who's going through Doctor Who? And that's Charlene Schmidt shar Welcome back.
Hey, I'm back. Watched anotherseries, another one in the bank.

(01:19):
Yeah, making progress. It's nicethat my husband has a weekly ritual
now where I have the time andspace her heart to watch more Doctor Who
because he won't watch it with me. Well, it's good to have your
own series. Yeah. Yeah.I usually leave the room when Philip puts
Star Trek on, so that's fair. Patrick does the same thing. I

(01:42):
don't a lot of times I'll watchwith him. But she loved the motion
picture, loved it so much.It can be a really good nap time
if you're just not into it.I was gonna say, I think that
would put me to sleep two nightsin a road and well, but what
we're going to be talking about isseries six. This is the Eleventh Doctors

(02:07):
second season. And so before weget into all the many episodes and ins
and outs and mid series breaks,it took a year, let's just check
in. This is your second timeor second season with the Matt Smith.
So what are you thinking of theEleventh Doctor? Oh? I like him.
He's fun. This show is fun. The stories overall are really exciting

(02:32):
and fun to watch. These reallylike these huge arcs that they do throughout
the whole series. I'm so investedin that at the start of the series,
I want to know everything. Theygive you just enough clues to speculate,
and then the real joy just comesin figuring out whether or not your
hypotheses are correct or not. Yeah, and this is our first full season,

(02:53):
obviously they you know, and hewas there the whole time, and
Rory slowly introduced with this is ourfirst mayor couple season with Amy and Rory.
How do you think? What doyou think of how these companions are
doing as the married couple of companions. Well, I think I said last
time, I was having doubts aboutwhether or not this was a real true

(03:15):
bond. I mean, I knewRory was invested in the relationship. I
had my doubts about Amy. Afterthis season, Nah, they're solid,
They're good to go. Yeah,all right, Well let's get into it.
We start off with a bang,with a two parter really beginning with
The Impossible Astronaut and Day of theMoon. If you want to do your

(03:38):
two part synopsis there, yes please. Part one, Amy Pond, Rory
Williams, River Song, and theEleventh Doctor receive a mysterious summons that takes
them on an adventure to twenty firstcentury Utah and Florida in nineteen sixty nine.
Along the way, they meet RichNixon, President of the United States

(04:01):
of America, and former FBI agentCanton Everett Delaware. The third Part two,
as Amy Pond, Rory Williams,and River Song are pursued across America
by Canton Everett Delaware the Third andthe FBI, the Eleventh Doctor is locked
in the Perfect Prison against the backdropof the first moon landing. The Doctor

(04:26):
and his companions must solve the mysteryof the aliens and the little girl.
So would you think of the firstscene of the Doctor dying? It immediately
asks the question what the f isgoing on here? So it's the perfect
setup. You've got to know whatthe heck are astronauts doing in nineteen sixty

(04:48):
nine? Who are these people?We do not know? What is Richard
Nixon doing in all of this?I mean it's the perfect level of absurdity
for Doctor Who. Yes, yeah, And I sort of like the m
beginning off, like the first episodewhere you have, you know, you
bring in river Song, which isalways big, and I'm just having you
know, this mysterius and then likefinding out that the mysterious person is the

(05:11):
doctor himself, right, Yeah,So it asks more questions that it answers,
but it gives you just enough ofa satisfying resolution to realize, we're
going to continue to get answers.You're not totally lost. So I feel
like they're doing this really freaking well. And I'm going to keep saying that
as we go on through the restof the series. I mean, really,

(05:32):
as far as the big arcs go, this one might be my favorite.
Just in terms of how thorough itis, how well constructed it is,
the execution is perfection. Yes,yeah, I think one of my
favorite parts because I was trying toI'm looking at the actor's name because I
can't remember the top of my head, and I still can't as i'm clicking
it. But with Canton Everett Delawarethe third, not many times can you

(05:54):
do this for real, but youget to have father and son playing the
same part. Um where you hadhis dad playing Morgan Shepherd, who you
may recognize from Star Trek Star Treksix on Rural Penthe yes, and then
of course you have his son playingthe main part, Mark Shepherd, of

(06:15):
course has been in several things supernaturallyto the big One, but you know,
Battlestar, Galactic Up and a bunchof things. So I just thought
that was nice little casting there,having father and son playing the same part.
Yeah, that was a nice touch. But yeah, it was a
very because I liked to you know, I remember when this I remember this.

(06:35):
This this series of course goes twothy ten to two thousand and eleven,
so we're in a decade past thisseason when it first aired. But
I remember, you know, whenthe first preview that we've already at the
the Nixon white House, and sothat was always a little, you know,
scheme moment for me. So whatdid you think of the Nixon portrayal?

(06:57):
I mean, of course you alwaysgot to do the nose, I
guess, um, Yeah, itwas very interesting. I know, it's
sort of played straight for the mostpart, and I didn't necessarily go too
over the top as one could do, and just sort of had that little
mention at the end of you know, how will they remember me? Doctor,
and Dickie, you'll be one forthe history books. Well, remember,

(07:21):
don't you worry, mister president.You're making the history books. In
a heck of a way. Myfirst impression was that he didn't look that
much like Nixon, which is whyI had to ask, Yeah, yeah,
you know Britain doing you know,I'll forgive him as I'm sure we've
messed up their stuff when we showedon our history, no doubt. Yeah,

(07:45):
we gotta let that slide. Imean, if that's the worst thing
they did in these episodes. Okay, Now, how did you think of
the introduction if you even remember them, of the silence? Not a whole
heck of a lot honestly, Yeah, that didn't really register very well because
I think it's just they're introducing youto so many things. You're trying to

(08:07):
keep track of all that's going on, and that is just this little footnote
at this point, now with rewatches, Okay, well maybe I'll get a
little more. I'll absorb more,but I was just really trying to follow
what the heck was going on?Now, did you remember that this is
actually a callback to the Doctor's veryfirst episode of The Prisoner zero saying the

(08:30):
silence and the Doctor's like, what'sthat? And she's like, the doctor,
doesn't you know what? The doctor? Oh? Man, No,
I did not catch that. Thatwas cool, So yeah, very cool,
which has sort of had a veryum epic. You know, there's

(08:50):
those epic moments of the Doctor.You know, something we've we've sometimes trying
to think of another word other thancomplain, but I also say complained.
The Thirteenth Doctor doesn't have. Butyou have the end of the Day of
the Moon with the Doctor, youknow, in the I don't know,
it looks like they're Tartis or whateverthis they have they have Amy captured,
pulls out the TV and you know, reveals the plan that they had to

(09:13):
basically brainwash all of the world tobasically kill all of the Silence on site.
Yes. The note I have onthis episode is this is doctor who
does America even after they did thatwith the Eighth Doctor, because we got
guns. Yeah, we've got conspiracytheories and we have the moon landing,

(09:35):
very important part of American history sinceit was Americans who did it, well
allegedly. I mean, who knewthat humans went to the moon because the
Silence needed a spacesuit? Ye,there you go. I don't know,
and now you did it. Yes. I was much more invested in the

(09:58):
whole What is her song to thedoctor or to Amy? You know,
all the theories running wild in myhead at this point, and so I'll
spoil what I was thinking at thispoint was that River was the Doctor's wife.
I'd put it in my notes.And then when Amy reveals her pregnancy,
I'm just thinking, Okay, they'regoing to go really timey, whymy

(10:20):
with this? Who the heck knows? So as we go along, the
theories change. Yeah, I wastrying. So that was was that I'm
trying. It was at the endof the day of the Moon, where
you had the doctor scanning Amy,revealing that she was pregnant. Yes,
yes, yes, no, it'sreally messed up, which I think gives

(10:43):
away all right, one, something'snot right, and then two we're getting
timey. Whymy, did you haveany theories at this time of who the
little girl in the astronaut's suit was? No, did not know at this
point. I figured they'd eventually getaroun you know, some you know,
sometimes they don't always pay off.But yeah, I definitely enjoyed these first

(11:05):
two because it's very epic, becauseyou like, the first season, not
that it was you know, obviouslyit was very cool, but it was
you know, and you had sortof the Pandorca and all the big bang
and all that and the crack inthe wall, but it was still sort
of low stakes in some ways.I mean, it was very enjoyable,
and we've talked about it last timeyou were here, but this sort of
the first two parts almost like amovie and just feels like this is a
very epic, you know, likeyou said, with going to America in

(11:28):
real life, you can see whatthey're spending money, and the production value
is getting bigger. It's like youcan sort of now they've sort of raised
the stakes both in production and instory. Yeah, they really do open
the season with a bang, whichsets the expectations high right away, and
overall I wasn't disappointed. I'll justsay that right off the bat, it
holds up pretty freaking well. Andit always amazes me with this show.

(11:52):
Every time I think that they've reachedtheir apex of production value, they step
it up just a little bit more. Pretty cool. Oh yeah, and
the doctor wears stetsons now sets.That's right? Well, getting next is
you know this this is even thoughfirst episode, it's really the first two

(12:13):
episodes I'm counting as one. Oftenthe second episode could kind of sometimes be
let down in series, like youknow, you start off with this big
pilot or the season open the secondone kind of like, and then it
kind of gets eventually it's a motivationback. So you tell me what you
think of the Curse of the blackSpot. Go ahead with a synopsis.
Dis The Tartess is marooned on boarda seventeenth century pirate ship whose crew is

(12:39):
being attacked by a mysterious and beautifulsea creature, be calmed and beset by
cabin fever. The pirates have numeroussuperstitious explanations for the Sirens appearance. The
Eleventh Doctor has other ideas, butas his theories are disproved and every plan
of escape is thwarted, he mustwork to win the trust of the implacable

(13:01):
Captain Henry Avery and uncover the truthbehind the Pirates supernatural figures. And he
must work quickly, for some ofhis friends have already fallen under the Sirens
spell. And this is our firstbit of I don't want to say stunt
casting, but this is m Ibelieve this Isn't this Hu Bonoville playing the

(13:22):
Pirates. I'm trying to remember fromDawnton Abbey. But anyway, oh,
okay, but would you think ofthe SAT watched it? Would you think
of the Pirates episode? It's kindof a half and half deal for me,
where the production value is really good. They're just knocking it out of

(13:43):
the park with the special effects andit's visually very beautiful. But story wise,
yeah, I feel like this onekind of takes a little while to
get going. I don't feel likeit gets interesting until the alien ship shows
up, and then then we're rolling. Now we're talking. I don't know.

(14:03):
Maybe it's just because maybe I don'tcare as much for like the real
old timey this kind of particular timeperiod, this kind of particular scenario.
I'm not entirely sure because like medievaltype of stuff doesn't really appeal to me.
It's just okay, depends on whatthey're doing it with it though,
And yeah, after a massive explosioninto the season, this one does feel

(14:26):
like a bit of a step back. And like you said, it's a
pattern, it's almost expected at thispoint. Yeah, it was. I
mean, you know, oh oh, and we have a CPR scene which
was kind of cringey and yet notit was still dramatic, So I know

(14:46):
that doesn't make any sense, butthat's that was kind of my reaction was,
oh, God, they're doing theCPR scene. Well, I mean,
it's got to work, right.Yeah. I remember watching this episode
and I think what works against ishaving this epic nous and this mystery and

(15:09):
this potential arc introduced and the silenceand the little girl and the doctor's death,
and then the second episode's like we'renot gonna talk about any of that,
okay, you know, it's yeahhere shift. Yeah, It's like
maybe this should have been like episodefour you know, if you're not going
to talk about it again because it'syeah, you want to feel yeah,

(15:33):
particularly because the first two episodes wereum sequel um. You want to feel
like, well, that's not theend, is it. Yeah? Yeah,
you want to have some sort ofsomething dropped in. We still we
remember, We're still there. It'sokay, right, Yeah, I agree.

(15:56):
Maybe if this episode came at adifferent point in the series where we
know, okay, we need abreak from the bigger story, maybe it
would have landed a little better.But it is a huge shift, and
it's like, well, do youwant us to forget what just happened in
the last two episodes? But whatthe heck, guys, let's do that,
you know. That's what we're sortof saying with the again enough to

(16:17):
keep bringing it back. But itwas the thirteenth doctor Um when you had
spyfall and then I forget what thethird episode after that was. It's kind
of like, yeah, we're notgonna say that gallipray and and the Master
or whatever. We're moving on,moving on, moving on, like but
maybe yeah, yeah, I kindof hate it when TV shows do that.

(16:38):
Yeah, I get, you know, production and everything. It's a
very messy thing. But as anaudience member, it can hurt, can
really take you out of it,and I think a few little droplets would
not have gone a miss. Yeah, you know, continue it, but
you know, you got this momentumgoing and you just sort of maybe just
like you have some sort of twoor three lines of Okay, you know,

(17:02):
we're still looking for that thing,but here we are now. Yeah.
Yes, the big like the brightspot of this episode for me was
the comic relief that is Rory.He's so good is the comedic foil?
Isn't he still gurbal? I lovehim, and it's quite it's to be
a good comedic foil, I wouldimagine against Matt Smith, no doubt,

(17:27):
who who has so much physicality andso much comedy in his body anyway that
you know, when you're trying tobe the comedic foil, you can't fall
back on any of those things.You have to do something different, a
little bit unexpected. So for Rory, it's the snappiness of his comebacks,

(17:49):
it's his words. And you know, something I just realized is he's not
competing with the doctor trading quips oranything. And it's not like they're just
fighting heads with their wit. No, he's just doing his thing. He's
doing Rory. This is who Roryis. Yeah, I love it.
Yeah, a little bit surly teenagerwell as a slight tangent speaking of Arthur

(18:14):
Darville and pirates. Uh, wejust watched the National Theater production of Treasure
Island Treasure Island, which made forgetif it was around this time, but
it was certainly closer to this thannow. Um, and so he played
long John Silver, So he playedthe main pirate, so with eyeliner and

(18:34):
everything, and I'm right interesting.Yeah, cool, it was good.
It was good. So he gotpirate fever perhaps during this episode. Possibly
maybe that black Spot really didn't man, Yeah, I thought it was,
you know, not to skip ahead, but I didn't think it was very

(18:56):
interesting. I suppose it's also thatyou know, when you're watching this episode,
whether you like it or not,you kind of think, I've got
one off. It's not like we'rebookmarking this one. We might we're going
to use this character again for acameo like that. Yeah, Honestly,
the downfall of this episode is thatit feels very forgettable because it is kind

(19:18):
of a one off. It's adistraction from the bigger story. Yeah,
yeah, not exactly my favorite,but not the weakest of this series either.
Yeah, it's it's not it's oneof those it's like it's not a
bad story or we're like, ohokay, but which we'll get too in
my opinion. Um, but it'sjust sort of like, you know,
I would put it in a differentplace, maybe that so it can be
more appreciated. Yeah, yeah,just give me back, get back to

(19:42):
the other thing. Now you piquesmy interests. Um, next we'll come
up to and my only quival becausethat's gonna to me. In fact,
it's a great episode. But notto color what you're gonna say. I
hate the title because you saw thetitle. You know, it's like watching
Star Trek. Now get the title, but you whether it's Flordex whatever,
Like, okay, the title's kindof set you up. So this one

(20:04):
the next episode, char because you'vehad your theory. Now River Song is
the doctor's wife, so you wouldhave been like, all right, all
about River this episode? Right?No, not at all, zero,
nothing, not at all. No. Instead, you know what I have
in my notes is, instead ofdo you want to build a snowman from

(20:26):
frozen as do you want to builda tar? All right, Jessica,
give us the snubs. That's whathappened, Doctor's wife, all right.
The Eleventh Doctor receives a message froman old time lord friend. The message
brings him, Rory Williams and AmyPond to another universe, where they meet
an alien who eats tartises. AndI suppose that should note this is Neil

(20:49):
Gaiman's written episode. Okay, oh, yes, that's right. Yeah,
because I was just when we weretalking, he was just thinking like this
is I mean, I think it'sa great episode, but it is weird
in a good way in tone,like it's you know, the I forget
the character's name is what like thecharacters that's helping, like with the maide
of like the Frankenstein characters, andthey kind of talk in a weird way.

(21:11):
Mother does nothing like mother and fatheror whatever they call each other,
and it's just it's a little weirdfor Doctor Who at least this season.
But then when you think like aNeil game and you're like, oh,
that's probably what it is. Yes, well, it's it's very much Neil
game, And yeah, it's He'sfingerprints are all over it. Even if

(21:32):
you didn't know that he wrote it, you could probably guess that he had
something to do with it at leastbecause it is a very different tempo.
But overall it was fun. Ohyeah, and because it is a Neil
Gaming episode, it's going to beentertaining. And I cannot wait to watch
this one in the future again becausewhat I noticed myself doing with this one
was second guessing the story all thetime, what is really going on here?

(21:56):
And then I just had to reallytake myself out of that hole,
myself out of that and just sitback and enjoy what was happening, Like,
stop trying to predict what's going togo on, just watch this thing.
Yeah, especially because I think eventhough it's it's in many ways a
horror episode, you know, withAmy and Rory basically being tortured and the

(22:18):
tartists. Yeah, but but yousort of have this thing that's so small
in scope or I mean that's notadvertised because again you're the doctor's wife.
Everyone's thinking River, so I meanI would think everyone's at the Kinking River
saw instead. Yeah, it's theepisode that perhaps we never knew that we
wanted. The Tartist comes alive,right, definitely a surprise. Was not

(22:42):
expecting that in the least and thewhole Amy and Rory thing. It's funny
that you say horror milk film,because in my notes I say, uh,
no, Rory do don't you dareleave Amy? Because this is the
perfect setup where the person dies.You know, they should be like locking
hand ends and not leaving each other'ssite whatsoever. And they do the opposite

(23:03):
of it, of course, No, no, no, no no,
you never do that, never eversplit the party? Do you want to
live? But I do like especiallysort of the new Who doctors, not
that you don't necessarily see it inclassic Who, but like the you know,
for the way they're phrase things.It's like what and why do you
always call me sexy? What areyou talking? Yeah? The banter was

(23:30):
killed, yes, yeah, butit just so Yeah, overall, this
was a fun one. I hadno idea this was coming though, Yeah,
And I almost wish they maybe hadplayed it a little more that that.
This is what it was like somethingdoes again when you're expecting river a
song and you're getting like, what'sthis act? What what's happening? And
but this this sort of has oneof those epic lines and ever I'm watching

(23:52):
like Doctor Who YouTube videos where theI forget the villa it's called in this
one, but like you know,um, you know, I killed it.
You know, fear me, Ikilled a time lord and the Doctor's
like, fear me, I killedthem all, you know, and so
right, yeah, yeah, butthen you just get again, nice epic
moment at the end with the Tartistbeing let loose in the Tartists and you

(24:17):
know, all that stuff, andyou get the you get the old were
you expecting to see the old Tartistconsole the tenth Doctor console? Right?
Yeah? That was cool? Soyeah, I'll call back. Yeah,
and I'm sure there's some backstory.I don't know if they knew they were
going to use it, because Imean, at this point it's been a
year and a half, so Iforget why they Yeah, did they have

(24:38):
it, why they had kept it, or why they hadn't junked it.
I guess it's the real way tosay it. But did they know they
were commissioning an episode with Neil gameand he said hold on to that way,
we want some behind the scenes onthis, please, Yeah, and
then also not to tease, butcertainly they had another reason to keep it
but anyway, coming on? Doesthis have something to do with the fiftieth

(25:03):
anniversary? I think that I'm inching, ah so close to okay, okay,
but yeah, I like to getto that. Yeah, it's a
very sweet moment. You know.You got to say hello to the target.
Yes, that was Yeah. Iliked this episode because she was to
issue a complaint. You've never takenme the places I want to go?

(25:26):
Yes, but I always taken theplaces you need to go. That's right.
What does the door say up front? I'm the target? Put?
Why do you always pull? Anyway? That's so much fun. Well,
moving on, we get our secondtwo parter um, The Rebel Flesh and

(25:52):
the Almost People. Yeah, partI want to hear your thoughts on this
one. Part one, the EleventhDoctor, Amy Pond, and Rory Williams
visit an acid mining factory. Asolar storm hits the factory, turning the
workers gangers into self aware individuals.The doctor must mediate between the original workers

(26:17):
and their rebellious gangers. Part two. As the conflict between the miners and
their gangers escalates, the Eleventh Doctorhas to deal with Amy Pond's distrust of
his ganger while Rory tries to helpJennifer. I don't hate it. I
just don't like this one at all. Oh really, I think it's got

(26:41):
some redeemable qualities. Jennifer's an interestingcharacter. I like her, I just
very false too much for I mean, not romantically, but it just falls
for her too much. And I'mjust like, she's the bad guy,
Rory, what do you deal?But it's not Horry. I hardly naivete.

(27:03):
Yeah he does. And he's anurse, don't forget. He wants
to help people, yep. AndI like I like the doctor versus the
doctor, and I like now thatis probably my favorite part, and the
twist at the end, because evenI don't I mean, I don't think,
yeah, I just saw that,um where you know, Amy's kind
of being a little be a betterword to the doctor's ganger. Um,

(27:29):
and then at the end that they'veswitched, he's been actually been being a
b to the doctor the whole time. So um, yeah, did not
see that twist coming whatsoever. Bythe way, Oh my gosh. I
rather like this two parter, soI find it interesting that we all have
different opinions on it. This isfun. It's like them from last series.
It's like the Whales Mining Dinosaur Peopletwo parter where it's just like,

(27:57):
oh, right, did we needto parts for it? I mean,
you know, yeah, it's okay. Oh, I don't know. It
got really interesting when it really gotto the heart of the story where you
could just have gone with a oneoff episode of you know what, maybe
clone isn't such a great idea andhere's why it doesn't take that direction though,

(28:18):
and it goes for, well,what is a real person? What
makes them? It's like this measureof a man if you will to bring
star Trek into it with a doctorwho kind of a story. I can't
help but appreciate that. Yeah,and I can't remember the exact one because
it's been a second foot latch thisepisode, but I know they do and
I always love it when they dothis. When the doctor's initial ganger is

(28:40):
being formed, the ganger goes throughall the regenerations like in five seconds,
like I forget if he says likedo you want a jelly baby? Or
what all the things he says,But we get a little Matt Smith doing
some of the classic doctor's stuff.That was pretty cool. Yeah, I
mean, you could tell Matt Smith'shaving fun with this too. I mean,
how can he not. Again,He's so fluid in all of his

(29:03):
movements that and Rubbery that this kindof episode is just really lovely for him.
Right. This really showcases his talent. I think in the same way
that David Tennant got to have hismoments with certain just I don't know whenever,
he basically got to play himself multipletimes. It's kind of like this,

(29:26):
but Matt Smith is right there withhim. It's great now. Also
side note, I had no ideathat Muse was going to make an appearance
on Doctor, well, not anappearance, but be played on Doctor.
Who thought, Oh, they're goingfor more contemporary music. That's interesting.
But I loved it because Muse isone of my favorite bands. Yeah,

(29:48):
so I'm not afraid to play somemusic. Yeah, the acoustics and the
tartists are not bad. Yeah.And it's also to me not to get
too head but that I mean aslike as a two parter, like as
a weird way to say this asI stand alone two parter, but you
know what I mean, M Like, I didn't realize this is actually gonna
have repercautions in the arc, likethis just seems like a throw to me,

(30:11):
right, Like it's like it iswhat it is not that the doctor
hasn't Yeah, like this is aI think you can only not only you
appreciate this only if you're doing arewatch, because it's like the doctor had
a reason to go to this factorybecause he suspected that Amy was a ganger.
And yeah, it's so true.I had no idea that was coming.
And excuse me, you're right,though more often than not, the

(30:37):
two parter is just going to belike a two parter and then we might
have a little bit of fallout fromit. But just to do I don't
know, it's doing exactly the oppositeof what the first two episodes we're doing
in a way where we're not goingto quite shift gears. We got to
keep going with this whole thing.So then this takes us to the I

(30:59):
don't know if you're allowed to saya mid season finale, I don't know,
but certainly if you were complaining aboutEPICNUS, we got a good Man
goes to war, So Jessica takeus away this banger on the Asteroid Demon's
run. Amy Pond has given birth, but the villainous Madame Cavorian and the

(31:22):
religious Order of the Silence are waitingto make a collection that tears Amy's world
apart. Across the galaxy, theEleventh Doctor and Rory Williams are assembling an
army to fight the battle that liesahead. Whilst in Stormcage, River Song
prepares to escape for what may bethe last time. For this is the

(31:47):
battle of demons run On this daythe Doctor will rise higher than ever and
fall so much further, and finally, this is the day he discovers who
river Song is done Dune dun.So we get the Yeah, this is

(32:13):
the one we were all waiting inso many ways. This is what we've
been wanting for how long now?Yeah, but we get the obviously,
I don't know what to call it, Fellowship of the Ring, but you
know, the Doctor bringing in umpeople, people that we've actually are meeting

(32:34):
for the first time. This isthe first time we get Is this the
Potato Bastra and strat Stracks and Jenny, I mean as sure this is the
first time you've met them, right, Yes, I think so? Right?

(32:57):
I mean I like how it's Imean, that's it's the funny thing
about doctor and doctor who is that? You know, it could just be
that he brings back who we've seen, but this is the Doctor's had that
many adventures off screen, and thefact that he's calling in favors for people
we've never met. You now cancreate your own backstory about whatever adventure what
doctor met him, whether it wasthis one or another one, and big
Finished Productions will do just that,and we get it'll be awesome. Get

(33:24):
what's his face? The blue guyDelian? What's That's not it? But
anyway, oh yeah, the doctorwho, yes, doctor loses his head.
They have to do the joke,don't they. But yeah, well,
I don't know, let's just startat the end. Then what'd you
think of the final reveal? Ina way, it's not that it was

(33:47):
a big surprise, and yet thereveal was just so freaking satisfying. We
finally got there. Yeah, theydid a really good job because I'm sure
are the expectations were really high toreach this momentous part of the story.
It's been a mystery so long.I'm sure people were talking on internet message

(34:07):
boards with their theories and what haveyou. And nevertheless, the reveal is
still trying to play with your expectationsand make you wonder and second guess yourself
if nothing else. And it's goodand it's dramatic and you're just like,
oh it's a seminal moment. Yeah, it's great and so clever, just

(34:31):
yeah, so clever, really reallysmartly done. Like did Steven know?
I believe Steven Moffatt has always writtenRiver Song episodes, even when it was
you know, Russell, did heknow when he wrote the character river Song
and then when he wrote Amy Pond, like was that unperfected? He know

(34:52):
from the very beginning of Amy Pondthat he was making that name choice.
I need to know. I needto know because the whole Melody Pond river
Song thing is so cool. Yes, yeah, I just think it's gorgeous
the way that all sort of ohit just comes to yeah, yeah,

(35:13):
it is beautiful at them. Andthis is really very subtle to mean,
maybe too subtle, but I stilllike it that we know we saw last
season that Stephen introduced the idea ofthe Church as this army basically um,
And now we have in this episodethe Church army again, um, but

(35:36):
the raw enemy is the doctor um. And you know, yeah, you
know, and then having Madame Bassadorand then General Runaway um and then yeah,
there's just so many moments that anyparticular moments that jumped out for you
for this one O than aside fromwhat we already talked about. I mean,

(35:57):
that's the real big one that takesthe cake by far and away.
Rory in his Centurion armor again playingHarold at the Doctor. Yeah, he
does look good in armor. Notgonna lie. There's a reason why they
keep doing that, yes, yeah, yeah, And I like it's a
fun one to watch them rewatches becauseit's the introduction of Madame Vastra and Strax

(36:24):
and Jenny and so that's a lotof fun to watch it again and go,
oh that's where they started kind ofthing. It'll be fun when I
get to that point. And Ialso just enjoy playing I mean, for
me, playing with a lot ofstuff because I think, and I don't

(36:44):
know if you would agree, share with tenth Doctor now the Eleventh Doctor
we've been sort of building up to, I mean the Ninth Doctor too,
building up to sort of like theall powerful god, you know that you
know who can do anything, andthat how he's become so powerful because in
classic who he's this bumbling guy whoyou know all usually wins, but he's

(37:06):
not this you know, all powerfulwhatever and so, but you get this
moment that kind of plays with that. You get that all powerful doctor who've
been enjoying, But then you getthat what that means or what that cost
is with River says, you knowthat their word for doctor means you know,
bad guy, basically a warrior.And yeah, which I think is
at a really lovely moment, youknow what what have you? Yeah,

(37:28):
that's a revelation. And yeah,now that you mentioned that, Philip,
I have to agree with you.I think we've been getting little hints of
that leading up to what I canonly guess at this point is yet another
really explosive moment. Yeah, andthen see that I love because there's seven
there's quite a few moments this happens. I mean not a lot, because

(37:51):
of course with the eleventh Doctor orthe doctor in general, you don't often
get him or her emotional. Butyou get a sort of that moment that
Matt does, of what he's like, you know, at Madame Vastra and
like you you think you can threatenby getting close to the people that are
close to me and he just hasthat moment of what I'm getting angry?
This is now? Yes, youknow, yes he has these little moments

(38:16):
at least certainly he did in theTenant era too, where he kind of
just breaks his character just a littlebit, like he goes a little further
than you would expect him to andthen has to pull himself back. Oh
what am I doing? It's interesting. So I don't know where that's all
leading, if it leads anywhere,but I'm guessing you just dropped a hint

(38:37):
that yes it will. Well there'sI mean, it's in the future of
when he gets another prophecy that thedoctor has a secret that he takes to
his grave and it is found,and there's a moment that the doctor reacts
when told that prophecy that you don'toften see that breakdown of the doctor.
But that's in the future. Um, But so I believe we get Is

(39:01):
this the episode where we get them? Whatever his name is with the with
the prophecy that he has on thefield of trends Alore the fall of the
Eleventh when the question is answered,silence will fall. Oh golly, I
honestly don't remember anymore because it hasbeen several weeks since I because the Yeah,

(39:25):
I just feel like, um,they're setting up the next season.
Not the next season, but they'resetting up what will come because I mean
that prophecy you're not you haven't seenyet, because you know in the fields
of trends, are you haven't seentrends of laure yet? The fall of
the eleventh the question we'll be askedin silence will fall? And so what's
the question? And you've already metthe silence? But anyway, so anyway,

(39:49):
okay, but yeah, so weget to the semi defeat of the
doctor. I mean, you getthat very kind of emotional moment we meet
the young lady, young girl,um, and she dies, but you
sort of get that very making thatperson real for a moment. So yeah,
this is true. Doctor faced somecost in this battle and and loses

(40:12):
the baby. Yeah that's why Imean, well, I mean the parents
was focused on them. The parentsleave their baby Aman Rory, and and
then that's where we end and midseason break. So in real life,
this was a year like you justtook you just watched the next episode.
This is one of those like yeah, no, this was let's tune in

(40:34):
next week. Yeah, I didnot have to wait to kill Hitler.
Yeah, this was like Battlestark BlackPit for people who are watching that would
just do like year breaks and midseason breaks and you're just like jeezy crazy.
You know, before we in thispart of the TV area where we
now have forced to get like liketen episodes instead of you know, the
twenty episodes that were used to Right, So, how was the overall reaction

(40:58):
to that? I mean, wasit just to complete? Oh my god,
I can't believe that. Yeah.I mean it's like the whole thing
of people who, oh, Iknew it all the time, or that's
really cool, or and so Ithink the River Song reveal, and you
know, I don't know you'd goone two ways. One, I was
glad we finally knew. On theother hand, maybe we never should have
known. You know, I don'tknow. You can get a good two

(41:19):
ways, whether you always want tojust keep the mystery of a character or
I don't think it loses anything forme. I don't think it loses any
mystery because she's still ating up,because she's still working in an opposite timeline,
and so that's still very interesting andwe're not finished with her either.
No, so yeah, one ofthese days. So you may want to

(41:43):
listen to our episode where we didthe timeline from river Song's point of view.
Ooh okay, cool, I shouldlisten. Yeah, I get well,
we had to watch a lot fora weekend. When I'm gonna understand
all that you're talking about, I'lldo that. Yeah, yeah, I
agree, though I think rivers Songstill has plenty of mysteries left in her.

(42:06):
This is just one little puzzle piece. Yeah, I'll be at a
very satisfying one. Yes, andagain a very subtle moment adding to the
you know the doctor's history why hehas a fastnet? Oh yes, yeah,
yeah, yeah, yeah. Ididn't mean I would say the doctor
has told we don't the doctor hashad a granddaughter. What we want to

(42:29):
say about that? But that's allwe ever know so far? Yeah,
so far? All right, Well, moving on, So Let's kill Hitler.
And don't you think the title needsan exclamation for Hitler? Let's kill
Hitler? Yeah, all right,here we go in the desperate search for

(42:49):
Melody Pond. The Tardest Crash landsin thirties Berlin, as the time traveling
drama returns for the second half ofthe series shown earlier in the year.
The Doctor comes face to face withthe greatest war criminal in the universe and
Hitler. Old friendships are tested totheir limits as the Doctor suffers the ultimate

(43:09):
betrayal and learns a harsh lesson inthe cruelest warfare of all. As precious
time ebbs away, the Doctor mustteach his adversaries that time travel has responsibilities
and he must succeed before an almightyprice is paid. So what did you

(43:31):
think of the Shark? Because Ihad thoughts, certainly. Okay, first
impression was the title Let's Kill Hitler. Oh, we're going to do another
World War two story? Okay,wait, doctor, I understand right,
yeah, and especially I know BritishTV loves to do World War two story.
I get it. War is dramaand it makes for good TV.

(43:52):
But again, but then, theproduction of value in this episode is crazy
good and it's already at this massivelyhigh bar. And the whole thing with
you know, Mels is melody andwhat have you everything that we get a
reveal of that their child is atime lord born of the tartist. That

(44:15):
was cool. Did not see thatpart coming, did not realize that that's
where this was all going. Soall in all, I had fun with
it. It was good this andI think this episode sets itself up for
a challenge that's hard to meet.I mean, they wrote the episode,

(44:36):
they didn't have to. But likethe hardest thing about the River song timeline
based on her very first meeting withTenant in the library, how are you
going to show if you want tothe doctor and River meeting and how that
meeting, which obviously is going tohappen in reverse order? I mean,

(44:57):
is it this epic meeting? Isit a meet? Q? Like what
is it? What is it?And I think not that it's a bad
episode, just like I didn't youknow that that that creates her falling in
love with him? I mean,that didn't have to happen in the exact
second they meet. But to me, a like I I didn't get River
falling in love with him like inthis episode, like she saves us and

(45:21):
like I don't know, she justregenerated, she's out of you know,
she's a little crazy, like anyonedoes. But emotions are probably all over
the place right now in that moment. They just made it too easy,
I guess, is my complaint,Like, oh, she just instantly gives
all the regenerations to him, sosolves that problem. Um, and then
uh, you know, and thenso it's like, Okay, I feel

(45:43):
like we checked a box there.Yeah. And and I really love the
um the workings of this episode alot, you know, the back and
forth of Vizaga Panana is it agun? You know? And Matt Smith
gets this amazing moment when he's beingpoisoned that he gets to do all of

(46:06):
his floppiness in time. Yeah,I mean, it's all of that I
think is just gorgeous, the mechanicsof this episode. I didn't like the
idea that Mel was an old friendreckon that up the wise, because we've
never heard of her, and nowall of a sudden, and we have
seen some of Rory and Amy's paststuff, and now all of a sudden,

(46:30):
there's business. And I understand thatnow possibly it's all now new memories
that didn't exist before. Like Iunderstand that theoretically, but it was a
hard pill to swallow. It mighthave been a better payoff if we had
known about, uh, you know, some of little Amelia's friends. Yes,

(46:54):
more sure, I can see whereyou're coming from on that and I
can also see how maybe this episodewould fall a little short upon further rewatches,
where there's some good stuff in here, but maybe it is a little
too easy as a first timer.I'm not picking up on that because it's
brand new. Yes, yeah,and that's said, this is this is

(47:19):
part of the setup, isn't it. You know, this is a big
portion of the ultimate payoff. True, And I and another not problem.
But I don't think I'm giving anythingaway because you've seen the whole the rest
of the season, like this wholelike, well, you lost the baby,
and then like this episode begins withlike, so doctor, did you

(47:40):
find the baby? Nope, didn'tfind the baby? Shrug, all right,
moving on. I'm like Amy andRory have lost there and no one
seemed to give it blank nonetheless them, Okay, this is true, this
is true. We're focusing on otherthings, I guess, in a manner
of trying to distract us from thefact that there's this missing kid and we

(48:01):
we're gonna deal with that later obviously. And I think there could have been
a lot of beauty in a grievingprocess given to Amy and wrote because I
think as actors like totally could havehandled it and yeah, they really should
have done that. Yeah, becauseI mean there's I mean we'll talk about

(48:22):
an episode in a few in acouple of minutes here where we get that
range with the girl who waited.Um. But like we're just sort of
like, you know, the emotionalism, the sci fi wave of like,
I mean, they lost the baby, but where they got river, it's
the same thing. I'm like,like Amy just had a baby and then
lost it, right, And alsothese are newly weds, so they've just

(48:44):
barely made their their commitment official eventhough they've been together for some time.
But you know, just getting marriedreally it does a little bit of a
different thing to the psyche. Ithink where it it's for real real,
it's not as easy for take backseatsessentially. And then yeah, they conceive

(49:04):
their child like what is it ontheir honeymoon night something like that, like
right away, right the freak away. And then now they lose their kids.
They've got to be having some thoughtsand feelings about that. And maybe
even if they weren't trying to getpregnant, I mean the fact that they
even were about to have a child, Hello, your life is going to
change tremendously. We're not talking aboutthat. Yeah, and now you've got

(49:29):
a grown woman psychopath, which psychopath, which is fine, and I'm sure
she's lovely, but where's my babythings? And yeah yeah, because they
don't Yeah okay, so I guess, yeah we should have gone there.

(49:49):
Yeah yeah, and I guess I'mnot. Don't put all the weight on
this one episode, but it's it'sit's what every TV series does, and
I'm sure your podcasts have been onlet's introduce a baby, okay, like
you know though, oh, rebabyin real life is there like all the
time, like all the time,not just the thing you can show once
every five minutes an episode and disappearlike someone has to take care of the

(50:10):
kid like at all times. AndI get that babies on a set are
very difficult and you can only usethem for so long and what have you.
So if you don't want to dealwith that, there shouldn't be a
kid. Yep. I mean thenthere are toddler and then there, you
know, and then they're and thereand there. You know, we just
can't be like, yeah, theyhave a kid and you never see him.

(50:30):
I'm like okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, but anyway, all
right, now we get to nightTerrors. Oh yeah, ah, yes,
the Eleventh Doctor receives a just Distresscall, bringing him Amy Pond and
Rory Williams to Earth. George isa young boy terrorized by the monsters in

(50:53):
his cupboard? Are they imaginary orare they real? So before you get
into like this would have been agreat way to pivot to that because now
they're having to take care quote unquoteof this boy. You don't think that
triggered anything in Amien, Rory,but anywhere, right, This would have
maybe added a whole needed dimension tothis episode. It is, for me,

(51:17):
the weakest of the whole series.I didn't really care that much for
it. It's it goes for kindof like the creepy not quite horror factor,
but it's going for like the thrillersuspense angle. And it was creepy.
Yeah, the creepy dolls are creepy. They got the creepy factor,

(51:38):
right, It's just I don't reallycare that much with it. And so
this is where it falls short forme, is like, is the doctor
now the head of them make awitch foundation or something. He's just getting
any old request and answering it.Yeah, where did this come from?
It? It just struck me asodd. And then the whole going door
to door thing, isn't that somethingSonic Screwdriver could take care of. I

(52:00):
mean, I know we're getting itfor dramatic effect, but come on,
We've seen the Sonic do far morethan this can do all sorts of things,
just not that I don't know.It's just it's not even that it's
badly done necessarily. I just didnot get into it. And then to

(52:24):
put another nail into the coffin forme was Oh, we're going to get
the death reminders again. Let's justgo to this again and again. That's
something that I get a little tiredof because they just have to keep reminding
us every single episode from basically thispoint forward that the doctor is going to
die. Yeah, we know,we don't need to be reminded of this.

(52:46):
It's the crack in the wall.What do you want? Yeah,
next, we can know this.It's been oft since I've watched this,
but I think this one I kindof remember being kind of a lot of
drama. The Girl who Waited TheEleventh Doctor Rory Williams and Amy pond Land
on Apple Lapusha in the middle ofa plague. Amy is left behind and

(53:08):
the doctor and Rory must save her. But time for Amy is running at
a different speed. That's what doyou think of Karen Gillum's chance to play
a different kind of role. Shecertainly shines. It's definitely a showcase for
her and her talents, and sheknocks it out of the park. She's

(53:30):
great. I definitely believed her performance. The makeup a little hit and miss.
For me, it was okay,But honestly, I was expecting a
much older woman. So when Isaw her appearance, at first I thought,
oh, guys, you really didn'taid her enough. And then they
tell us thirty six years, becausewith tiny whiney stuff, I was expecting

(53:50):
a long time, just like afrail old woman. Not quite. But
then also, you have one tubeof lipstick for thirty six years. How
does that work? I guess that'sa thing, okay, And but also
not even one gray hair, soI don't know littlement Karen's first kick buddy

(54:13):
time, I mean, because obviouslyshe's gonna go to start doing some action
films in the Marvel universe and Gunpowdermilkha so maybe this is the start of
her showing that she can you know, for her real you know, yes,
absolutely, absolutely right. But thebits that I like best are the
bitterness. She does that very welland it felt so appropriate, and we

(54:40):
don't see it very much, youknow. I mean, Rory waited for
a thousand year or whatever, thousandyears and it doesn't have that bitterness.
We never see that really with him. Um, yeah, whereas with her,
and I think it's important. Ithink it's an important thing to shove

(55:02):
and I think a theme not oftenexplored, not that it has to be
done to death or anything, butand they've touched on it sometimes. The
cost of being with the doctor thatwe you know, it's usually I mean
the danger, but then the adventure. And but there there's a kind of
another cost. It's true, there'salways a risk. You don't know what

(55:23):
necessarily is going to happen. It'scertainly going to be a lot less safe
than just staying on Earth. AndI like seeing the doctor at the end
because I think it's and it's hardto make another we're in classic Arab Jessica
and I with the fourth doctor,I don't know if you necessarily see it,
maybe until the seventh doctor Syvester McCoy, But the doctor is not human,

(55:46):
and we don't often get that reminder, and here we get the no,
I'm leaving your mind because that's whatI'm doing, because I'm a time
lord and I've decided this is what'sgoing to happen, right it with one
viewing under me? Not quite.I kind of feel like the story resolves

(56:09):
this way because it has to.Although I do appreciate the whole line of
you know, two amys, canthat work? And the doctor says,
I don't know it's your marriage.But honestly, as an audience member,
I'm not envisioning the future here wherethere's two amys, one younger, one

(56:31):
older, trying to get along,trying to make things work. No,
that's far too complicated. You knowthat there's only going to be one.
It's it's like highlighter, there canonly be one yes. Yeah, so,
and then of course they kind ofjust try to brush it off as
look that the this paradox cannot continue. So this is where we mark that

(56:52):
point. This is done, andthen that's it. But from the doctor's
perspective, if he's just doing whathe has to do, and it might
seem a little heartless, certainly,but at the same time I kind of
understand it. Yeah, no,absolutely, there was There was no winning

(57:15):
with this. There just wasn't.You know. You make the save and
then it's like having a baby onset because now you've got two amy's one
set that you've got to deal withall the time, and that's not convenient,
So you gotta do something. Yeah. Are you really going to go

(57:37):
through the whole rigamar role of havingone actor do the whole two characters thing
for an expended period of time?Probably not. That's a lot of production
time. That's exhausting for the actor, and it's not once you've gotten past
this initial story, it's not aninteresting thing to watch. No, you're

(57:58):
right, why would we care?Yeah? So, I'm not sure what
that situation would really bring to thetable. Yeah so, and if it
gives you the opportunity to remind theaudience that the doctor is not human,
then yeah, he's not all findinggames. Yeah yeah, right right,
which is a nice little kick inthe butt every now and then. We

(58:21):
need that, and it gives thedoctor this lovely dip. I mean,
it's that's the thing that we loveabout him, is that he is three
dimensional. He's not just the zonyguy or the all powerful god at the
end of the day, He's atime lord. He makes that call,
right, he understands things that wedon't. Yeah. Yeah, and that's
why he gets to make that joke. Yeah. It kind of reminds me

(58:43):
of sort of the Thirteenth Doctor.You know, this is the you know
what episode it was, but whereshe suddenly like reasserts herself, like instead
of it being the fam She's like, I'm at the top. This is
you know, this isn't a flatstructure, you know, but yeah,
suddenly this isn't a democracy. Yeah. So moving on, I remember to

(59:07):
me not that sort of in retrospect, this was sort of the beginning of
the end of the series. Sothese last three episodes for me, so
yeah, because I remember watching Ithink I had watched The God Complex,
which we're about to talk about,and then I was average over to friend's
house or something, and it waslike a doctor who grew up and they

(59:29):
ended up watching The God Complex andclothing time together. So that sort of
was really making the end before ofcourse the very last episode, but before
we get there the God Complex,the Eleventh Doctor, Amy and Rory.
Oh, we finally dropped the lastnames. The eleventh Doctor, Amy and
Rory investigate a hotel of horror whererepeat business is low but the body count

(59:53):
is high, where a mighty monsterstalks the corridors and the rooms hold visions
of angels, apes, and creepyclowns. Who or what has brought them
to this place? Can the doctorsolve the mystery before the residents check out
in grizzly style. So it's tome this is more of a thriller.

(01:00:16):
But it's like very thinky piece.But what do you think of? Sort
of this another scary one A lotof them. Yeah, sure, you're
right. I consider this one foryet another reference to Star Trek. It's
TNS, the Royality Voyagers, thethought it's hotel to hell check out.

(01:00:37):
Never Like, honestly, if Isaw this place, I would run getting
the heck out here. No doctordoesn't have a good track record with hotels,
let's be honest. Okay, okay, Yeah, and I can't remember

(01:00:58):
her name was in the synopsis,but the young lady they introduced that she
had met student or a doctor camera. Um, yeah, but she was
really like, oh, I wantedher to be the new companion. She
was really good. Okay, thatkind of threw me for a loop because
suddenly it just felt like the doctoris trying to recruit her and she reminds

(01:01:19):
me of a like a younger Yashin a way, and I'm like,
why is he doing this? Sothen it shouldn't have been as much of
a surprise to where suddenly we werewe really going to say good bye to
Amy and Rory, and it feelsso fast like he's just dropping them off,
He's dumping them out. Nope,we're done here, and then he's
going to try and go on adventureswith this. Literally, wow, why

(01:01:45):
wait a minute, slow down?This was It was very abrupt for me.
I didn't really like that. Thatwould have been interesting first Muslim companion.
Yep, now that would have beencool. Yeah, but uh yeah,
that was really sad when she gotit, you know, I was
like, oh, I really likedher. Um yeah, I mean the

(01:02:05):
other ones that I could have caredat us about that, yeah yeah yeah
the um oh goodness, isn't therea star trek oh? Oh? Either
there's a Star Trek Alien that's doesum the one where there's two piccards and
he's trapped in the prison and oneof the people is that surrender alien um
because it's like the chal Off.It's like what they get their trapped and

(01:02:28):
they have like the Gael circles thatthey can eat. And it turns out
that um, it was just anyway, But um, I can't said that
that concept of having a surrender alienum was was was from that episode?
Now having David as the surrender alien, you know, um bless yes.
And for yet another Trek reference,there's a rejected borg slogan in this episode

(01:02:52):
resistance is exhausted. But I'd likeI like the concept of the rooms.
I liked the concept that the doctorhas a room and I believe that it
was room eleven and we don't seeit, which I think is the right

(01:03:14):
way to do it, yep,because then you do see it eventually,
and I'm like, I wish wecould have just get it a secret,
because nothing you show is ever goingto meet what you think. I think
if it would have been much morefun just to always be like, what
did you see? But anyway,because he just says, of course,
what else would it be? Butanyway? And then I like the ending

(01:03:35):
berry as you would like it thevillain is actually not a bad guy,
just misunderstood. Yeah, that wasactually a nice little twist because sometimes the
bad guys are really two dimensional.We're just you know, I'm out to
kill you and that sort of thing. Yeah, and I love a good

(01:03:58):
I'm not really a bad guy.And I can't remember the final lines,
but it was I think it's reallygood writing over like because he's translating what
the minatar or whatever saying and it'slike, oh, go, I forget
what it said, like the greatGod, who's you know, Dad?
And it's like, oh, wait, he was talking about the doctor and
then it's like oh and then soafter that kind of deeper, you know,

(01:04:28):
kind of thriller horror heavy, weget closing time. Craig Owens is
having enough trouble trying to care forhis child. The last thing he needs
is the return of his old friend, the doctor. But as ever,
trouble seems to have followed the doctor, this time with a silvery shine.

(01:04:50):
Did you think he'd be seeing thereturn of Craig Owen? Shar And I
had no I idea this was goingto happen. And it's so funny because
not that long ago here in LaJames Cordon did a flash mob on an
La street and held up traffic,just being really annoying to everybody about it.

(01:05:14):
Nobody was having fun except for him, and I'm just in total contrast
to this, where like he's actuallypretty fun and entertaining. It's just I
think I only like James Cordon onDoctor Who. Yeah. Yeah, And
I imagine that there would be peoplewho would agree with you, because he's
really a great fit for this characterwho was just trying really hard to keep

(01:05:35):
it together, but bad luck seemsto find a way with him. Yea
bless with a stormagedon? Yeah,yes, And okay, starting off with
this episode, this is a goodcatchy teaser, but I can't I can't
say I was excited for yet anotherCyberman story that I was just kind of

(01:05:57):
sitting back and saying, all right, impress me. Yeah. I get
a little tired of seeing the Dialecsand the Cyberman being the bad guys almost
like on a very regular basis.They just I understand their nostalgic favorites and
I'm just not there with that yet. Yeah, and again going back to

(01:06:18):
the previous episode, for me,it's because they are so one dimensional.
Yeah, it's just the same thingover and there are so many of them,
so you're not even getting like thisparticular one. Yeah, I just

(01:06:38):
I can't get behind it. Andthey've thrown in some good twists here and
there, But at the same time, I don't know, can we not?
Yeah, you think of something else, Yeah you'll you'll have a good
Cyberman experience. I think with theTwelfth Doctor, well, that's true,
they're not for a little bit.And I'm trying to remember because how does

(01:07:01):
the God Complex end because obviously theDoctor is without Amy and Rory in this
episode, right, well, uh, I I don't remember. I don't
know a total brain part. Don'tmind me because at the isn't it?
Is it at the end of thisepisode where he sees Amy and Rory like

(01:07:21):
over because she's like a supermodel nowand yes, yeah that happens in this
episode. Yes, like they've goneon and now she is I guess not
quite an influencer, but yeah,she has a perfect She gets stopped in
the shopping closet, so I thinkif I remember because I remember the scene,
I don't remember, but I assumeit must have happened at the end

(01:07:43):
of God Complex where he goes toEarth in front of a house and there's
a car and the Doctor's like,its yours. Oh yeah, yeah,
yeah, that's right, because he'sdropping them off. Amy's gonna tell you,
we say no, don't believe her. Yeah. So following up on
that, it is good to seethat Amy and Rory just kind of go

(01:08:06):
on with their lives like they're they'reup to things. They're not just sitting
around doing nothing. No, infact, she's quite busy. She's really
built a name for herself. Thatwas cool, Yeah, because I feel
like, then again I haven't obviouslyseen it soon as you have. The
conceit of this episode kind of remindsme of like the End of Time with

(01:08:26):
the Tenth Doctor that we're supposed tobe led to believe that, you know,
when that when he first starts andshows up at the planet what do
they call the things that have thetubes in their heads shows up on the
Oude planet, and it's kind oflike he's been delaying responding to the distress
call. You know that he's goneinto anyway. But I feel like that's

(01:08:49):
we get from Eleventh Doctor that likein between God Complex and closing time.
There's apparently like twenty episodes of DoctorWho because he's like he's been kind of
doing his goodbye checklist, apparently becausehe's trying to avoid meeting the death day.

(01:09:10):
Yeah. No, that is anabsolute gap that you could have a
lot of fun with in other iterations, Yes, yeah, I hope that
will happen. What do you thinkof the ending of this where like the
kids are there and I forget thedoctor says something, and like you have
the voiceover of like and the kidsremember to this day. It's like I
thought that he looked funny in thathat or you know something, I forget

(01:09:30):
what the cowboy hat? Oh butthat just really the cowboy hat. Okay,
a cowboy hat. I don't know. I think we should also talk
a little bit about Matt Smith playingfootball. Oh again, Yeah, because
Matt Smith was going to be aprofessional footballer and had an injury and wasn't

(01:09:55):
able to So yeah, so weget a little bit of him as a
footballer. Well all right, well, okay, well I imagine that had
to have been a lot of funfor him. Then, yes, yeah,
I'm sure to marry his two passions. Oh you think we'll see him
on Ted Lasso. Why not Ineed to watch that show. Oh yes,

(01:10:25):
well, let's get into it.The Wedding of River Song. Al
Right, something is wrong in thefullest sense of the word. At first
glance, the world seems fine,but upon closer inspection, dinosaurs, romans,
and other things throughout time have appearedoddly. Nobody seems to be bothered

(01:10:48):
by it, like it was partof everyday life. Part two. No
oh, and continuing, another oddityhas occurred despite the sun rise and setting
like normal, The time is alwaysthe same, only the doctor has the
answer. And boy, oh boy, it's gonna be a whopper. Darn

(01:11:11):
you. So did you think wegot to see Churchill again? Did it?
You know, he's a recurring characterthis. I was expecting Whiston Churchill
to make a comeback. No,and I was. Katie Couric gets a
like two second cameo in this too, And I was like, Katie Curic,
of all people, Okay, it'snot expecting that, just like James

(01:11:31):
Cordon, Like, they're just pullingfrom all over the place here. It's
crazy. Yeah, what the fwas this world we were even in?
And then the next thing I putin my notes was followed up with it's
always a woman who gets blamed foreffing everything. Yes, yes, I
mean if I again you know rulenumber one, the doctor lies. But

(01:11:54):
um, if we're to go bythe first episode of the series, it's
the difference between the doctor we seeat the beginning and the doctor we see
later. Wasn't it like two hundredyears because he said how old he was?
Right? Oh gosh, yeah,I mean exactly like I said,
between concomplex and closing time, I'vehad a one hundred years have passed.

(01:12:15):
Assuming you're selling the truth, becausewe now get this you know crime doctor.
Now to the timeline, the differentperspective of the other doctor, you
know, going to his death andsummoning everyone having the picnic, and right,
it's all going to come full circlenow. I did appreciate how it
all comes together. Everything just kindof clicks. So kudos to Stephen Moffatt

(01:12:41):
for constructing a really well told story. I mean, this had a lot
of pieces to it and not onething stuck out, is wrong, didn't
fit or odd like, no,no flawless. Yeah, yeah, I
know. I enjoyed, enjoyed theyou know, any this this version of
amy kind of figuring things out andyou know, he got to get changed

(01:13:04):
into the clothes though he still hasthat long hair, so his hair is
starting to grow out. Um,what do you think of the long hair?
Come? Yeah, because you knowhe's the soothsayer, but that's his
real bad hair. That's that long. Because even when even when he gets
to the suit back on and hestill has that kind of long hair that
shaves his fake beard. Um,but yeah, well because he he uh,

(01:13:26):
I mean, you know, Godbless it when you're like, but
like he's he can shape that hairlike it's almost like Egon on the Ghostbusters
cartoon. I mean, he canreally get that thing going. You know.
So because because I think because Ithink when you go to the beginning
of this series, like the beginningof his time and doctor who's short shorter
hair. I mean it's a littlelong my girl now, um, but
it's shorter hair. But I thinkthe more he goes, he kind of

(01:13:48):
stylizes that hair. It's very sweepingand so like I always think of him,
Um, you haven't seen it yet, but like in the Snowman when
he's wearing the purple jacket. Yeah, he's just that's kind of his look
for the rest of that series,and I think that's very good but long
enough. So yeah, we dohave a theory not true with the Ninth
Doctor and obviously thirteen different, butI think, um, the doctor's hair

(01:14:12):
grows longer, they get a littlebetter. Yeah, that was that's our
Twelfth Doctor thing when you started toresearch because he starts. I mean,
what we really need, what wereally need with Jody Whittaker's final scene is
she's got a punzel. Yeah,you know, yeah, we need a
punzel situation stack for her last year. They just always get a haircut at

(01:14:33):
the beginning of their run and thenyeah, and then let it grib for
the rest of them. They're toobusy filming, no time for haircut.
Indeed, So like I liked,you know now having complained about how they
met, but I did like thewedding, you know that it just and
then the I need a piece ofcloth, yes, yes, a wedding

(01:14:54):
follows soon by a murder question.Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was.
It was This was a great who'ddone it? Like? Who was
doing what? With everything happening aroundhere? That was Those were the big
questions I had, was you're seeingthe people, but you're seeing what's happening.
But there's just enough confusion and blurrinessto make you question who is doing

(01:15:16):
what. Yeah, and if youthrow in tiny whimy, then you've got
possible you know, other versions.I mean, yeah, it gets pretty
complicated. What do you think ofthe twists that he was a doctor Robot
did not see that coming, No, not in the lease, So that

(01:15:36):
was a wait, what as he'swaving from the eye hole. Yeah,
doctor who? You know, Andso we sort of get the ending of
the series with Lorian. I can'tremember his name, you know. Yeah,
it was Lorian because like Lorian fromBabylon Head in the Box, you

(01:15:59):
know. So I'll keep your secret. Of course. That's doctor who,
Doctor Who? Doctor Who? Now? Yeah, and then we're off to
a Christmas special. All right,all right, so let's do um kind

(01:16:24):
of a yeah. Well, anyway, I'll let you go ahead and do
the synopsis for The Doctor, theWidow and the Wardrobe. Christmas Eve nineteen
thirty eight, Madge Arwell comes tothe aid of an injured spaceman, Angel
the Eleventh Doctor, who promises torepay her kindness. All she has to
do is make a wish. Threeyears later, Madge escapes war torn London

(01:16:48):
with her two children for a dilapidatedhouse in Dorset. Crippled with grief at
the news her husband has been lostover the English Channel, she wishes to
give her children the best Christmas ever. The Rwells are greeted by the doctor
who acts as their mad cap caretaker. However, a mysterious Christmas gift from

(01:17:10):
him leads them into a wintry,magical world. Madge must learn how to
be braver than she ever thought possible, and that wishes can come true.
So we know Sara hated this oneWalter War two boom, World War two
stoo. Now I know why.Yeah initially I thought, okay, not

(01:17:38):
I really did, but this onewon me over because as a Christmas time
episode or what do you what doyou call him? A special? Yeah?
Yeah, special Christmas special? Okay, so Christmas special. If you
want something that's just feel good,wholesome entertainment for this time of year,
this thing fits the bill. It'sexactly what it needs to be. Yes,
I can't hate it? Yeah,yeah, I I This is one

(01:18:00):
of my favorite of the Christmas episodes. I think Christmas Carol probably tops the
list, but I like that becauseI like the whole complete escapism of it.
Yeah, you know there are somewhere, yeah, you know, Santa
Claus shows up, but you know, things like the escapism, the fantasy

(01:18:26):
of this I just think was delightful. Yeah, you kind of gets swept
away with it. And I meanespecially I'm sure if you're a parent,
you can relate to Madge where she'sgoing to do anything for the well being
and protection of her kids. Youdo not mess with Mama. Yeah,
yeah, that's the big moral ofthis story. Yeah, and I like

(01:18:46):
that as the conflict if you will. I mean, you get the you
know, scary tree creatures as theconflict. But I mean the larger conflict,
of course, is you know,we'll Madge teller kids that are dad
that their dad died m And Imean I think that's the heart of the
story because I think every you know, the story needs every story needs a
heart, and that's what that andI think that's what compels this one.

(01:19:06):
But my complaint quote unquote about thestories that the Dutch doesn't do anything.
I mean, like he creates thegateway, but other than that, pretty
passive the whole time. There's nothinghe does that affects anything that happens.
You know, it's not really abouthim. Yeah yeah, yeah, and
you say he doesn't really do anything, but at the end he brings the

(01:19:28):
dad back she does technically yeah,but yeah, like yeah, she couldn't
have done that without him, andyet yeah it kind of was her was
Yeah, so which is fine.Yeah, that's you know, it's one
of the things of like kind ofclassic in a way. Yeah, passive
doctor, which is fine. Yeah, you don't have to get that new

(01:19:50):
who watch this one often, LikeI'd have to be in the right mood
for it. But if I wantmy heart warmed, my black little heart,
I put this on. Yeah,and then you can go sleep in
a hammock. Yeah, you know, I've always wanted to do. I
know they call me many think thedoctor at the caretaker of the please get

(01:20:16):
off this planet. But yeah,and I do nothing against any companions.
It's always interesting when you do acompanionless quote unquote doctor. I mean,
obviously let's imagine the kids for thesake of but you know what I'm talking
about. So, because you don'tyou get to see the doctor flex when
is this character without Amy and Roryor future companions to come, you know,

(01:20:39):
well, and I think it doesgive you the benefit as you say,
you know, the children or thecompanions sort of in this one,
to switch it up and see whathappens when he's got children for companions or
when you know, finding companions inthe space, which is kind of what
happened last time, because the kidAneazer was this companion basically. Yeah.

(01:21:02):
Yeah. Also, if I'm tryingto figure out how Amy and Rory would
fit into this story, I don'tthink they'd be a good fit for it.
So it's really an advantage that they'renot here. Yea, what would
they do? They would just betaking away from the the the guest characters,
if you will. Yeah, althoughit would have been and I appreciate

(01:21:23):
we're not doing a rewrite, althoughperhaps maybe we should. It would have
been interesting to do a juxtaposition ofwhat they were doing at Christmas time,
having lost their baby, dealing withall of that, and then the idea

(01:21:44):
the doctor's guilt of not being ableto do anything for them, but now
he's got these kids, but hecan help this family, you know,
and that sort of that would havebeen an interesting we get I trying to
remember who the guests it I'm BillOh what's his name? Comedian? Um,

(01:22:06):
I don't know, I remember whatwe know what to know him from.
Um? Yeah he was like countdown, you know, yeah, yes,
Pete Si so um yeah. Thisis always Christmas is always an opportunity
to bring in some British comedians playingsome roles. Even that's very small role.
He's one of them, you know. Christmas is the way to do

(01:22:27):
it. But they're doing it forthe thirteenth Doctor's companion. I don't know.
I don't know him at all.Yeah. But oh Bradley Walsh,
I guess yeah, less but yeah, so yeah, this is that's true.
Yeah, sorry, just started here. All the comedians want to be

(01:22:47):
have dramatic reels. David Williams yeah, um yeah so yeah this was enjoyable,
you know. Keeping with the Englishliterature thing, yeah, Christmas Carol
now we have that's right. C. S. Lewis, so yeah,
yes, but yeah. Now haveyou read The Lion, The Witch and

(01:23:10):
the Wardrobe, the Chronicles of Ardio? Okay I did too when I was
in the sixth and seventh grade,so of course I don't remember crap at
this point. Spoiler, they're aboutJesus references to say that again. So,
yeah, well, were there littlelike easter eggs in this episode that
we're totally over my head because Ididn't remember, I mean what was in

(01:23:31):
the book, just the premise,I mean that you know, you know,
you know, because in the bookit's the they sent the kids away
from the cities to live in thecountry because he wanted to be away from
the bombing. And that's where wesort of get sending them you know posts,
which is the same concepts, justthe moms with them this time.
Yeah, if you live in thecountry to escape the bombing. M and

(01:23:53):
then you have the caretaker, whichI forget the character's name in the books.
You really see him though, youknow spoiler alert, you see him
at the at the end of theseries, um as being the one who
built the wardrobe or whatever. Umso yeah, I mean other than that
and creating the gateway into the anotherworld, that the snowy world. Of

(01:24:15):
course, that was the White Witchor right white Queen, snow Queen,
snow queeness something whatever. Yeah,Okay, it's been a little deep cuts
because you have the like the boysand say the kid there's two kids,
Um, the boy playings kind ofthe Edmund role, because he's the one
who sneaks in first, just likeEdmund's snack. Little Lucy technically did,
but you know what I mean,and sort of and the girls a little

(01:24:36):
bit like Susan, Yeah, alittle sensible yeahhhh, okay, okay,
I was just curious. Yeah,this one's thought about Jesus. This one's
not about Jesus. Of course.I didn't feel really like the others of
the Chronicles of Narnia really were otherbooks. Yeah, I mean, yeah,

(01:25:00):
I'm sure there are somehow or atleast typically, but I feel like
you've got your Jesus book, andthen he's just writing fantasy books. Yeah,
Horse and the Boy, you know, Prince Caspian. Yeah yeah,
the Voyage of the Don Traitors aboutflat earthers. Um. But yeah,

(01:25:20):
it's a nice sweet way to end. So so yeah, so what do
you expect from next series? Thethird series of Doctor with the Eleventh Doctor.
I don't know. Well, Ihave no idea. The Doctor's gonna
done. He's done that. Yeah, he's already done that. Well,
we've prepared you that you will besaying goodbye to Amy and Royson. Oh

(01:25:45):
so yeah, okay, I'm I'mreally sad to be saying goodbye to them,
But of course another companion I'm sureis going to come into the mix.
How that all plays out, I'mgoing to find out. I mean,
I really I try to go inwith no real expectations and then the
story can just twist in my headand I can come up with theories.
But every series is kind of itsown new thing, So getting started,

(01:26:11):
I have no idea what they're gonnado and where they're gonna go with Ye,
it'll be fun, yeah, andI will. I think you have
to be spoiled a little bit becausethat's how it happened in real life.
Oh okay, me, I haveto show you a picture. But because
the way it came about before theseries started is that there will be a
new companion. The companion will beJenna Louise Coleman. I'll just show you

(01:26:35):
a picture. And so just nogoing in to the first episode. You
know, we you know, we'relike, we're not going to end that
episode. But like, the newcompanion of the trial will be Jenna Louise
Coleman, and so I think it'simportant that you know what she looks like.
And so you can whenever, youknow, whenever she pops up in
the series, I'll be like,oh, that's the new companion. Yeah,

(01:26:58):
that's all I'll say, because okay, there was certainly a reaction the
first time people saw her. Yeah, and second time you saw her.
I have no idea where this isgoing. I'm intrigued. Yeah, it'll
be fun, it'll be fun.Okay. Yeah, well I'm just going
to have to snap right to it. Huh date Yeah, so yeah,

(01:27:20):
so enjoy and then, um,I'm trying to do the whole season next
season in my head, um,because this is another year break. So
in other words, the mid seasonbreak for next season is the Christmas special.
That's how long it took. Sookay, wow, yeah, all

(01:27:41):
right, they really took their timeat this. Yeah, which is someone
I hate Matt because kind of withthirteen. Matt played the doctor hand quotes
for many years, but he onlyhad X number series because it was like,
sure, you know, series overtwo years. So but anywhere,
Yeah, it's much more pleased tobe able to watch them all whenever new

(01:28:02):
darnwell please, I'm sure for theaudience it was frustrating, but as a
show runner I'm sure it was wonderfulto take your time and make sure you've
got all this stuff. Like therewas a twelve Doctor season or year where
he had a Christmas special and thenext episode was next year's Christmas special.

(01:28:25):
Yes, and I was like,gee beezy, yeah, well they do
what they want to do what theywant, so but AnyWho, and then
we'll start counting down to the fiftiethHey, okay, yeah, I don't
have to wait a whole year startedthis week. All right, Well we're

(01:28:48):
to folks want to learn more aboutyour Doctor Who adventures or maybe some Star
Trek adventures. Where can they findyou? Sure, best place is to
look for me on Twitter. Myhandle is oh the Profanity and I'm doing
a Star Trek Lower Decks commentary rightnow podcast with Tristan Rudel, my longtime
co host. Every time an episodeis released on Thursdays, We've got a

(01:29:12):
commentary track for you, so youcan check that out if you're interesting,
nice, awesome, Well until nexttime and whatever we'll be watching next enjoy
the Doctor's many adventures throughout time andspace. This is BBC Television.