The Husbands of Moll Flanders

Alex Kingston is Moll Flanders!

Our favorite Whovian actors have a wide filmography - so we look into one of our favorites, River Song herself, in a 1996 mini-series, "The Fortunes and Misfortunes of Moll Flanders." Alex Kingston plays the titular role, based on the Daniel Defoe novel, as she seeks to be a "gentlewoman" in a society that pushes back against women. The four episodes span a wide assortment of romances and adventures (and children!) that leave their mark on Alex's performance. In our look into the TARDIS library, the couple examine the Academy Award-winning short film written and directed by the 12th Doctor, Peter Capaldi, "Franz Kafka's It's a Wonderful Life."

Episode Transcript

(00:03):
Welcome to the nerd Party. Welcometo Time Space, a Doctor Who podcast.

(00:31):
I'm Jessica and nine and I'm herhusband and co host Philip Gilfhiss.
Well, we're here in vacation,so the sound may be a little different
or recording from a hotel room inCharlotte, North Carolina here on July fourth
weekend. Today is July fifth.That's useful. That's right. I feel

(00:51):
like now we're about to do anews report and the weather for today.
Well, um, we're going tocontinue in our eve of talking adjacent Doctor
Who. Yes, so we're Ihaven't quite got back to watching our fourth
doctor Adventures, but we're in themiddle of it, so we'll hopefully continue
in that sooner. And I knowfront of the show, shar is finishing

(01:15):
up her second series of Matt Smith. I believe she just did the series
midpoint, so she's a good mangoes to war. So she does.
So she finally finds the identity ofRiver Song, which kind of leads us
to what we're talking about today.Yes, so, um, I know,
Jessica, you're a fan of AlexKingston. Yes, and so we

(01:37):
reached back to I don't know ifit's her earliest work, but certainly one
of her earlier works on the Telly, and that's in the mini series The
Fortunes and Misfortunes of mal Flanders.This premiered for one December nineteen ninety six,
so a few years ago. Um, and so what did you think?

(02:00):
Overall? I enjoyed it, andit's one of those that makes me
go, oh, I really oughtto read that book. Now, full
disclosure, I did try reading thatbooks I had. I had it like
a few months ago. Okay,yeah, I sort of have the bookshelf,
oh stuff, and I forced myselfto grab books and read it at
work during lunch just to clear thebookshelf. I just grab whatever's on the

(02:22):
shelf just to make them go away. And so I went halfway through and
we'll kind of go through it maybeworks better as a TV series. It
just was a little circular after awhile, as you can kind of tell
from what we're about to talk about, as far as you know, finds
Man and did it happen finds Man? And so it's after by like the

(02:44):
third time, I'm like, okay, are we going anywhere with this?
Or you know, halfway through thebook you're like, Okay, I'm not
really sensing a direction other than Imean, we can talk about the themes,
which I don't think you're necessarily inthe series more implied than maybe the
Dafoe was going for. But asyou say, the actual book, it's

(03:04):
based on A small Flanders by DanielDafoe. Um, I don't know,
there's not really sent out the longstory short. It's the story of a
young woman Maall Flanders making her wayand already I don't know that you would
put the time period pre Victorian almost, I don't know. Maybe yeah,
England. Um, so obviously youknow life is always tough for women,

(03:25):
but that she's born in sort ofthe lowest circumstances and you know, in
prison, and then you know,trying to make her life go from there,
advancing her her station in life throughmarriage most often and with varying degrees
of success. Yes, okay,so, um, I guess let's start

(03:46):
just with your basic what'd you thinkof Alex Kinson in this role? I
thought she was really good. It'sa little unconvincing when she was playing much
younger. Okay, I mean shewas young when she I understand, but
when she was playing like sixteen orsomething, you saying out, Yeah,

(04:08):
yeah, I get for you know, once we got past that point,
I was good with it. Butyeah, I got a little strange.
Yeah, and I you know,not to draw too much attention to it,
but I don't. I don't knowhow the I assume this was on
BBC whatever, you know. Idon't know she needs to be naked in
every episode, but certainly that's whatthey were going for. So anyway,

(04:30):
but AnyWho, Um, so let'sgo through. It's kind of the cyclical
story of this. There are fourepisodes in this mini series. And as
I say, the origins is thisyoung woman or baby is born in prison
to a mother in prison, andthat's sort of a start of a theme
where women who are put in prisoncan plead their belly as it is said,

(04:53):
Basically, you're saying, hey,instead of killing me or you know,
executing me, can't kill me rightnow because I'm pregnant, right And
so that was sort of her origin. Um and so I guess I guess
she believed her mom was dead.I think, um, or she was
taken over to Virginia. Yeah,her mom was sent over to Virginia to
the colony. Yeah, that's theultimate, just like being executed really,

(05:15):
yes, but the baby was not. Yeah, and so the baby was,
you know, all Flanders. Sothat the characters she plays, but
that's not actually her name at thebeginning. But anyway, Um is taken
to this family. The Justice ofthe Peace or whoever it is, adopts
her, although that's later. Sheends up in a family of gypsies and

(05:38):
is sort of young child eight ornine. I guess when she runs away
from the gypsies and sees the Justiceof the Peace or whatever. You're right,
you're right, because she runs away. Yes, he's commudling with a
woman of ill repute. And thenso then when she gets taken to court,

(06:00):
he almost sort of takes her inso she doesn't talk. He's like,
oh I saw that man with ohnicely. And so that's where we
sort of begin our first you know. I mean, not not to define
the character by the man, becauseI want one, but this is sort
of her first love. I guess. She grows up in the family,

(06:20):
falls in love, if you will, with the eldest son who seduces her.
Yes, yes, yes, that'swhy I sort of hand quoting as
I talk that Yes, but thepeople on the who were listening to this
continue handy, I didn't actually physicallydo it, so um, but yes,
And I mean she's she's as yousay, she's playing young. So

(06:42):
it's sort of that first love.I mean, she's into him, he's
plaintively into her. Um. Andthen he's like, does the old we
can't be together because you know you'rewe can't be together until my father dies
and I inherit. Yeah, andI come into my inheritance. So until
then, let's just anyway get naked. Yeah. But then the second son

(07:04):
and the family, and again thisis kind of her adopted family. But
we're gonna brush out aside for asecond, but it is kind of adopted
family, Like she gets it tosit at the table after she served them,
and it is really weird. AndI think that's the central theme again,
or one of them is. I'mnot the expert. It's just from

(07:28):
what I read and from what wesaw, it's about you know, this
woman, this young woman and herdrive to be a gentle lady. Like
I think she says at one timeor two times, but like that's the
book, that's the whole thing.She's always talking about I want to be
a gentle lady, and it's notnecessarily in the role of a with a
man, but that's what she wantsto be. Her station isn't and unfortunately,

(07:48):
because she's a woman, in orderto get there, she needs a
man. So it's not like she'ssome man killer or or I mean,
I know we just started, butas we go through it, it's just
that that's she just wants to advancethis to a point where she has money
doesn't have to think about it,which I mean, you know, is
what we all want to do,I suppose, But obviously the social strictures

(08:09):
profecially for a woman require a littlemore work than just the on this July
fourth, the American dream. Yeah. So anyway, so she, as
I say, so, you know, she has this weird status where she's
of the family but not of thefamily. So she's still the second tier
status. The other daughters her handquote her sisters kind of. I mean,

(08:30):
they're not cruel to her, butthey're also recognized that she's not one
of them. Yes, um,so you know it's not like a Cinderella
situation. Um. But anyway,so the second son, it's just a
two girls and two boys, andthen maul m second son falls madly in
love with her. Um, sohe's a weirdo and but I mean he's
very chaste about it's I guess itcould have been worse. Yeah, he

(08:52):
just declares his love and it's youknow, it's a long story short.
Um, she basically tells him toshe can't be with him because she just
pretends like because we're of different stations, but it's also because she's in love
with his brother brother. Yeah,and a long story short, the older
brother does the very weird thing.But that's in the book and it's in

(09:13):
the show of like, why don'tshe just marry my brother? We can
still you know, wink wink.No, Yeah, that's fine. I
don't know if it's all that weird. I suspect that that was, you
know, what he was going forall along. He would have married somebody
important and would have wanted to keepthe relationship with her as his mistress.

(09:35):
Yeah, but I do think it'sit's I mean, not interesting, and
I think it's for the character ofmass that she does have a line.
I mean, she has met inlove with that first brother, but she's
like, I'm not going to beyour horror I mean though, I mean,
so she has this sort of notonly economically does she want to be
a gentle but societally in and ofherself she doesn't want to be you know.

(09:56):
And so long story short, sheends up marrying the second brother,
her the youngest brother, just tobe done with it, having a couple
of kids yep. And then hejust dies. He does, I know,
Like as we go through that,the many husbands here is just like,
you know, I don't know ifwe can do a musical based and
all the husbands, you know,like yeah, but I just like this
one that, like the author unifyslike I don't know, he just dies,

(10:18):
like the really very few explanations,just I don't they get married and
he dies that's at the end.Yeah, and then also the last respect
that happened more often. Yeah,life is life is cruel and short.
Um. But I think and alsoreading the book, that kind of got
to me. I don't think it'stoo on the TV series is that she'll
get married or whatever, have morethan one kid and then just scarpers.

(10:41):
Yes, so like she has likeyeah, that was just like ten kids
out there doesn't have quite that many, but yeah, she's got at least
four. She has like two werewith him, Yeah, and then later
like two or three and then likeI mean he starts to add up at
fall and like she just Palm's kids, which hey, fine, I guess
you know it works both ways,but like that's just one thing that gets

(11:03):
to be in the story of likeMary's has kids, abandons kids, moves
on to next chapter. Yeah.So anyway, so she abandons her kids
to the grandparents and moves on tochapter two, you know figureativly so then
basically meets random rich guy. Andthat's sort of shit. You know,
she's very upfront. I don't knowif she goes to some society or something
where it's like, you know,I'm here to look for a husband,

(11:26):
but a man with money. I'mlooking for a man with money, but
they have to marry me. I'mnot gonna be anyone again. I'm an
any one's mistress, not gonna anyone's side chick. That's what she says.
I believe it's a quote. Myeah, and coined that. Yeah,
and uh, Mary's a random richguy. He's like, yeah,
sure, I'm I will marry you, and I got money. Let's let's

(11:46):
do this thing yep. And theyhave fun for long, for a good
year or maybe it's shorter nine months, um, and then they run out
of money. Yep. Yeah,so this was sort of the good one,
you know, as we go throughthe different husband. So the first
one not good, second one betterbetter, better, but just short.
And then he's like, shoot,those are my creditors at the door.

(12:07):
Um, so by I'm gonna goto France. You you do you yep?
He goes yeah. And so Imean they they part on good,
good terms. I mean you know, yeah, she's like, yeah,
we did have fun so well,so yeah, there you go. So
he survived, survives, um justpouring in France or every now and then

(12:28):
they write but that's about it.So it's no kid, it's just a
short time. So so number three, Um, this is one. I
think it's also kind of like thatwhere she was she kind of in the
book and maybe the series. Shenever per se lies. Oh but she
does, Yeah, give the impression. Yes, her station is above yeah,

(12:52):
because there's I mean, it actuallyis. It isn't this guy we're
about to talk about. But thenext one where she always is like,
um, you know, I'm awidow that basically after the first husband,
she's always portrays herself as a widowbecause I mean, she is so not
lie but yeah, and she doesn'tmention the other men, so she just

(13:13):
goes, I'm a widow of youknow, and that's she goes from there,
I'm a gentlewoman of someone, youknow. So she ends up like
a sea captain. So she's basicallyI forget where she moves. Um,
I don't think it's London anymore,but somewhere where it's more seaside and there's
captain and you know. And thenso she gets the eye of a captain

(13:35):
and he's like, I'll take it. We can get married and take you
to my many lens in Virginia becauseyou're rich, right And she doesn't say
yes right now, and a lotcan be said and a coquettish laugh.
Well then she does and this daydoes it in the book, and again
I think it brings up that themewhere she's like, would you love me
if I didn't have any money?And he's like, oh, of course,

(13:58):
yeah, I also like that,And she's sort of doing like the
fine print, use it, andthis is where she's not lying she's like,
you know, if I didn't haveany money, because she doesn't said
that she has money, and sothis is basically they get married and then
she's like, by the way,I don't have any money, and he's
like a poop, But oh,well, off to Virginia. I guess
we'll still do this thing. Yep, I got landed. It's good.

(14:20):
Yeah, come meet my mother.Yep. So they go off to Virginia
sale the seas and he meets themother, a little awkward mother's scene,
but then everything's fine after that,and they have kids and she loves his.
Mother's kind of a happy, happychapter for however long it's the time
it's supposed to have passed. Obviouslywith two kids, probably at least two
or three years. Yeah, yeah, So all was happy from all until

(14:43):
and then she and the mother gofor a walk yep. So, which
is a lesson never going to walkwith your mother in law, right,
And then the mother tells her ownorigin story of being a thief and how
thieves can come to America and starta whole new lives and be gentlemen and
gentlewomen, and that happened to her. In fact, she was in prison

(15:05):
and had a baby girl and hadto leave the baby girl to come to
Virginia and make her own life.And this is when Maul realizes she's my
mother dune dune dun, which meansmy husband is my brother dune dune duh.

(15:26):
So this is like very early soapopera. I don't think there were
there soap operas into Fo's time.I mean, I know they're all books
about it, but still, Idon't know you had this much melodrama necessarily,
and purpose of Shakespeare was writing soaps. That's true, Well, would
be the sopious Shakespeare. The sopiousShakespeare probably something like Mary Wives of Windsors.

(15:46):
Haven't seen that one. That's that'spretty soapy. Well that's so there's
always them, Oh I'm secretly yourbrother or your Yeah, but the twin
Brands, so yeah. Comedy ofErrors is very slapsticky. I mean,
a midsummer Night's dream is you knowI love you, but you love him

(16:07):
that he loves her, and howare we going to make this work?
Magic? And then you have thewhat did we see the Jamaican one?
Oh m, twelfth Night, TwelfthNight. I mean, then you have
the sort of the identity and ittakes off I'm really dune dune yea all
things. Yeah, it's okay tolove me. I'm actually a woman and

(16:30):
it's not home overrotic at all.So you have this, And again in
the book it's treated this with thisinteresting situation where Malla finds out that she's
married to her brother, um,step brother but still half brother step you're
right, you're right, you're right, half brother um. And so she

(16:51):
doesn't tell him because how do youstart that conversation right? And she's again
this is sort of the happy chapterof her life. So she doesn't really
like him, I mean in adifferent way a lot. So she doesn't
basically it's framed in the TV seriesDon't Them More in the book where you
know, he's a quote unquicke,very Christian man and she knows this will

(17:11):
wreck him and we'll break a spiritand she doesn't want to do that.
Of course when they have kids,um, and so she just basically just
stops like sleeping with them and stopsbeing romantic and you know, and he's
obviously admittedly upset about you know,why do you are you not warm anymore?
I mean he goes a little melodramain the TV series about and starts

(17:34):
crying. It's kind of sad,but anyway, Um, he goes to
his mommy. But anyway, andthen finally she tells the mom you're my
mom. No I know, no, no, you're my mom. Yeah.
I do feel like we have aclose relationship. And so then I

(17:55):
guess I really forget how she saidin the book. I feel it slightly
different. But anyway, in theTV series, he just barges end of
the month and then I'll just tellshim and then he's like a poop.
Um. And so, uh,she goes back to Virginia or we go
back to England. So she buybuy kids or second set of kids and
goes back to England. New chapter, new chapter. So then we finally

(18:19):
get to Daniel Craig. It's nothis night in the minis Jimmy, but
um, he was briefly introduced inan earlier episode. I mean like for
like five seconds and okay, that'sno correct um and so but now we
get more properly, so fairly earlyon in his career, I would have
thought, yeah ninety six, yeah, um, I'm trying to think of

(18:42):
Daniel Craig's career and those a lotof action movies, and I mean even
pre James Bond, you know,but anyway, what his his origin or
what his arc was because made preknives ound also in Britain, like I
mean, there is a TV seriesand so I often I don't only think

(19:02):
of them in movies. Stuff Idon't couldn't think of. I'm sure there's
several I can't think of any TVseries that he was in. I'm sure
he's been in them, but soand just even in British, she's more
of a TV movie movie star anyway. Um, So he meet Jemmy and
this is I think where she's insomething like a hotel or in a lodge
of some sort. She's Lady Flandersor whatever she's calling herself now and again

(19:26):
I'm a rich widow and I'm onmy way to whatever. And then he's
like, oh, I'm or theshe meets a woman and she's like,
oh my brothers blah blah blah,lord whoever, I don't know. And
so basically she strikes up her friendshipwith this woman and her brother's there and
they meet the brother at the danceand then they had they fall in love
because they had this sort of chemistryearlier, and so things go from there.

(19:48):
They get married, all they're happy. She has to confess first Osnyeah,
they're irish, um, and soshe has to confess and that distresses
the priest to no end, butshe feels better, very river songish in
that element where she's just telling herentire life, like, oh, I

(20:11):
had this man, this man,and then you did this, and then
the brother and the side of thepriest is on the other side. I
mean you sort of have um,Daniel Craig and his sister sort of a
walking around and wondering why it's takingconfessions like an hour and a half,
you know, Okay, they'll getmarried. So they get married and they're

(20:33):
on their way, um, anduh, they're like, oh, maybe
you should take some of your moneyout of the bank. She's like,
oh, I can, I cando that anytime. Really, why don't
you do it now? I meanI don't really actually have any money in
the What was that, Well,it doesn't matter. We're going to all
your estates right. No, No, we don't have any estates either,

(20:56):
and so they're both filthy liars.Well, and it was all of the
scam because that wasn't his sister.Oh that's true, was his mistress or
yeah x wife or something like that. Yes, and so they were running
a scam to find a rich widowand so yeah, yeah, so though
I mean, he doesn't blame momor his woman, his sidechick who he

(21:22):
almost murders, but he doesn't.So yeah, and so basically they I
don't know, they kind of eventhough it's a weird situation with all the
scamminess, they're kind of like eachother. But they sort of go on
the run as well. Yea,they have to separate so that they can
find their own mean, yeah,and so there's a scene it's in the

(21:42):
book too, and they do inthe TV series where like, you know,
it's sort of the next day afterall the Kerfuffell and he even though
they sort of like had the sortof makeup, like after the scam is
revealed that we can still be married, right, I mean, we're both
poor, we like each other,why not, we'll make it work.
And so for the next morning justleaves with a note like I gotta find
my own way and you know,make a living somehow. And so she

(22:06):
screams his name, and then heand then he hears her, and then
he and the book. I thinkhe does come back. Um where I
think maybe this one is he sellsher later that he ever. Yeah,
so that's a little romantic moment thatthe foe flourishes. And then later on
it happens again, doesn't it not? Well? Later later on she's on

(22:26):
a stage coach taking it back towherever, and they get they are beset
upon by highway robbers and it turnsout that the highway robber is Jimmy.
Um So he takes her to searchher for her jewels wink wink wink,

(22:47):
and further into the forest. UmSo they have a little trist there and
then come back. But that's whereshe makes the banker. Yeah, he's
on the sort of an older gentleman, not nice, nice, but older
gentleman who's sort of takes her underthe wing while she takes me. I
don't know what's the reverse. Shegets under his wing and it's like,
I don't know anything to do.Could you tell me what to do?

(23:10):
I mean again, she's not scammy. I mean she plays very straight for
the most part. I mean thecharacter. I mean, you know,
she wants to be a gentle lady, and she'll do kind of what not
anything, but she'll do a lotto make it happen. But she was
very like, Okay, here's anopportunity, but I'm going to be straight
about it. And so she basically, for a lack of better words,

(23:32):
seduce his home. But you know, she's not gonna scam him or anything.
You know what you're doing, You'reyou're looking out for money. You
know, she's he's advising her aboutfinances and how to invest. And she
basically, long story short, youknow, they get married, and you
know it's happy enough. I suppose, yeah, you know, it's it's

(23:52):
a settled settled you know, she'ssettled basically, but she kind of got
what she wanted, which is,you know, not necessarily looking for love
of looking for stability. Yep.And basically the this is my phrasing,
that's not what really happens, butlike the stock market crashes, but whatever
the that would be in this timeperiod. And so he basically just dies

(24:15):
of shock. I guess, Idon't know, sort of vague he just
dies again has happened, And sowe get sort of a repeat scene of
the creditors at the door and shejust tells all the servants, you know,
I sell everything, including the children. I don't know whatever. And
in that one always at some pointshe does lave children with stranger. Yes,

(24:37):
I can't remember. Was that Ithink it was? Yeah again that's
I think this is when I stoppedreading because like, again this it's just
been so circular and like, whereare we going? I mean I get
it, like I get the theme, I get, but where are we
going? Like I'm on that there'slike a half a book of laught and
we're just doing the same thing everytime. So anyway, um, so

(24:57):
we go from there, and soit was once again she he's left Penny
less a widow twice over at thispoint, and so this time she finds
some lodging and maybe a less reputablearea than she's used to because she's again
down on her luck, and sheends up having a sort of almost accidental

(25:18):
tryst with this old man. That'strue, you're right, all right,
well, um, and I can'tremember, like he's like, let me
touch your bosom. Well we'll getto that. You're going a little ahead,
but you're this is the time periodbasically what it is. If that's
when she starts taking that, well, first time she part of it.
Yeah, she she is down onher luck and and so the innkeeper,

(25:45):
the madam or whatever you want tocall her, of the tavern um.
I think there's some point where she'syou know, her rends do or something.
And remember what happens she does,I mean, she steals something.
I forget how it works. Well, but I think that was stuff that
she had taken with her from thebanker. After the banker died, she

(26:07):
took some of her things and pawnsthem off to pay the rent. Oh
yeah, I s did that fora while. But then suddenly a package
came in, right, but thatI think that was the old man.
That was the I think that's thefirst time she takes somebody else's stuff,
Okay, I think, But anyway, basically, long story short is she
falls into a life of crime.Yeah yeah, And so she does it

(26:30):
once and the landlady's like, ohyeah, yeah, no, I know,
yeah, yeah, package came in. Wink wink, Yeah we got
You're not You're not the first oneever. Package came in. And then
you sort of see, at leastin the TV series, I'm all kind
of floundering here because she wants tobe a gentlelady. She's had to steal
this one time to naked's meat,and so she doesn't want to do that
because that's not the life she wantsto lead. But now she doesn't know

(26:52):
what else to do, and sothe landlady basically kind of slightly encourage her,
saying, you know, you're notthe first person. It's fine,
whatever, we can do this.Um. And so basically, as you
say, she gets a life ofcrimes, just starts stealing things and pawning
things and all that stuff. Andthen she meets another or the tavern lady
hooks her up with another lady who'sa robber, and they sort of become

(27:15):
a pair, a robber pair,and then they become a pair wink,
Yeah, they've become lovers. Yeah, I guess that I should have would
have been interesting how it was handledin the book, How Dafoe handled the
Yeah, I don't know how thingswere handled in whatever whenever time Defoe was
writing in so um. But thenher partner, lady partner, gets caught

(27:37):
and hanged. Ye, and sodies. I mean they weren't married,
of course, but you know onceagain she is left without and so she
basically is at her low well gettingto her lowest point, and basically gets
caught again just like her lady partner, and gets thrown into jail, pleads
her belly like her mom did,but of course she's not pregnant, so

(28:00):
she despise her some time. Andthen a new prisoner comes into the jail.
It's Jemmy of the dread Pirate Robertsyep, and she concocts a plan.
Whereas you mentioned earlier, she basicallygave an HJA to a random old
judge or something, and I think, like you said, took his stuff.

(28:22):
So she had like a box orsomething that had his name on it,
and basically, you know, tellsJemmy, Hey, Jemmy gets out
somehow um bribe's owner or something andof channel and she's like, look,
you tell the judge, I'll blackmailhim and if and have him send me
to Virginia again like her mom.And so there's this kind of a moment
he gets out and disappear. Yeah, and so there's this moment of like

(28:45):
that he leave me and you know, screw me basically, which you know,
hey, she is she is standingin the gallows with no sign of
Jimmy. When through the mists onhorseback, Jimmy arrives with the little rit
or whatever it is, and sooff they this isn't and so this is

(29:08):
the closing. It's Jemmy and uhMa all Flanders on the on the boat
off to Virginia, lord and ladywhatever to start a new life and to
live happily ever after, to livehappily ever after as gentleman and gentlewoman and
the colony of Virginia. Yep,the end, the end. Yeah.

(29:33):
So the way each um episode starts, and it's only four episodes, is
that she's in prison at the beginningof every episode. You know, it's
that basically you start the end ofthe beginning, and so you have the
prison right right, it will comethrough, Yeah, and you know,
taking everyone on a tour to gosee Mall Flanders. Apparently she's the local
prison celebrity that everyone comes to gosee. And so instead of doing the

(29:56):
previously on you get sort of like, oh, remember the two the last
episode. Yeah, yeah, sothe jail keeper scammer guy is sort of
recapping, which I think it's funny. Yeah, No, it's a nice
way to do it. Yeah,I like it. So what do you
think of the whole the whole kittencaboodle. I was a little bit surprised

(30:17):
by the ending, to be honest, and having finished the book, so
was I. Um so, yeah, the idea that because so many times
you get these society morality tales ofyou know, she's done this to herself,
so we're gonna hang her. That'sthe way that works. And that's

(30:38):
not what happened with this at all. She finally gets it's like she is,
she's spending so much time looking forways to raise her station and sort
of accidentally falling in love along theway. And by the end of those

(30:59):
two two things come together and shegets both of them. Um so yeah,
the usual way, unusual choice acrime, it turns out, does
pay. And so I'm looking thisup now. So Mall Flanders was published
in seventeen twenty two, so obviouslyvery early on. Yeah. Yeah,

(31:21):
I mean that's sort of mid eighteenhundreds. But yeah, yeah, so
it sort of suns but I guessit makes sense contemporary time. Yeah,
So, I mean I don't knowwhat the British era is called. Obviously,
here in America would be the colonialera for us. Yeah, um,
very perfect here in our July fourthweekend. Um so yeah, um,
I'm sorry, I'm just reading likethis, this is post Robinson Crusoe

(31:42):
if it matters. So enough aboutislands, what about women? Yeah?
Um yeah. I think one thingbecause I think in the book and also
a little bit in the TV islike this is because Mall narrates both and
in the book. But she's sortof like, oh you must you know,
I'm the thought of as the worstwoman in the world. You know,

(32:04):
I've done all these things and I'ma terrible woman. And so as
you say, you think, well, if this is in some ways traditional
British novelists of the early period ofthe pre pre twentieth century, there is
going to be this, Yes,this is the life you should not lead.
And if I was like, yeah, I don't know, it works
out far in the end, youknow. And so I again, without

(32:29):
being a British literature expert, Idon't know how many are women's central characters
who do all these things good andbad and in between, and you know
works out fine. You know,It's not like women should know their place,
do not have lots of sex andhusbands and crime and prostitution and leaving

(32:51):
your children, and I mean,which I think is a huge societal thing.
I mean, I think that's thething that you know, shocked me
for lack of beout a word,and that it's the casual discarded of children.
Again works both ways, but youdon't see it. Four women in
literature in this, you know,in the eighteenth century, whether the women
just like kids by moving on later? Yeah, so yeah, yeah,

(33:14):
fun. So yeah, check itout, you know, I mean it's
nineteen ninety six, so I mean, you know, but I mean I
don't think it's dated at any Ienjoyed it. Yeah, sorry, So
check it out. There you go, there's your advice for today. Go
check it out. Yeah all right, well let's move on to the tartest
library. When you close your eyes, I go to the library. Go

(33:39):
to the library. Now for thetartest library. We're gonna stick with our
doctor who adjacent. But the sortof folks may be doing something that we're
not familiar with them doing. Andwe you know, we talked about Alex
Kingston being an actress and Mallifinders that'swhat we're used to her doing. We're
gonna talk about one of the doctorsin a role we're not used to for

(34:00):
halts, and that is Peter Capaldi, the Twelfth Doctor. So we're not
gonna be talking about anything he actedin. We're gonna be talking about something
he wrote and directed and actually wonmany awards for, including an Academy Award
an Academy Award for a tied withanother Best Short Film, Yea in nineteen

(34:22):
ninety five. So he This isOscar Award winner Peter Capaldi for those who
didn't know. Yeah, so thisis what are we talking about. We're
talking about the short film Franz cofcasIt's a Wonderful Life, which premiered in
nineteen ninety three. So I don'tknow, do you want to create a
synopsis on the spot? Ah um, well, it's Franz cough because it's

(34:47):
a wonderful Not even sure. FranzKofca is played by Richard Y. Grant,
because when we're gonna talk about doctorwho, it's always Richard Y Grant,
it is always going to be RichardD. Grant playing Kafka. And
then basically this sort of comedic shortfilm is him alone in a room writing
or starting to write, trying towrite metamorphosis, Yes, sorry, anyway,

(35:13):
you know the one we're talking about, and sou and he basically is
starting with that first line, youknow, for whatever Gregor waking up Gregor
woke up as a giant blank andhe's trying he can't find what he wants
Gregor to have woken up as.And so it kind of goes from there
with him thinking of different ideas,and you sort of get this sort of

(35:35):
comedic cut to Gregor Or, youknow, being a giant banana. Yes.
Yeah, And so then he's disturbedby his neighbors while he's writing or
having a random because it's Christmas,it's wonderful life, having a Christmas party.
And then he has this creepy personlooking for a mysterious pet, and

(35:55):
then he's interrupted by another lady who'sselling costume a door to door, and
then it kind of goes from there. Yes, and so obviously throughout many
trials and tribulations, he eventually comesup with the bug whom. Yeah,
we go from there. Yeah.Yeah, it's it's very I don't know,

(36:15):
well, what do you think,it's incredibly surreal? Yes, um
in in sort of an homage Isuppose to Kafka himself, but it's so
black comedy as well. Um,it made me giggle. Yeah, and

(36:36):
this is what nineteen ninety three.I don't know. I mean, I
assume Richard he Grant likes these roles, but he always does play the same
role sort of like I mean,not villain per se, but it's sort
of like just Perry standoff face.He's very lovely in person, but he
has the face to play that sortof somber bitch, no happiness, no

(37:00):
joy, no joy. Yeah,although we've just recently seen him in low
Key, so we'll see how thatgoes. But I think that's the thing
that Richard E. Grant does reallywell. Because he has that face.
He can do comedy beautifully because he'ssuch a straight man. Yeah, you

(37:24):
see him as like, oh,this is going to be a very serious
or very gaunt or very you know, sober, and then when he does
something that's funny, even if itcan't let even if he's keeping that face,
and that's the thing, he playsit so seriously, even in the
midst of this broadness. Um.So yeah, I'd be interested in seeing

(37:47):
where that fell. Um, becausehe did with Nolan. I didn't he
yes, doctor, Yeah, that'swhat I was thinking him again Grant with
one high and then I was like, oh no, wait was that Paul
McGann Yeah, because again that's anotherone that well, I've been trying to

(38:07):
find that it's not really available inAmerica, even in hard copy, Like
it's ridiculous the price I found onAmazon. So I don't know. I've
been trying to look for it justso we can watch it, but it's
hard to get in America. Butit's been a long time, so I
mean, And just to go overthe awards that this short film won.
So it won the Scotland BAFTA innineteen eighty three, won the Atlantic Film

(38:34):
Festival Award, and then it wonin ninety four the Andrews European First Film
Festival Audience Award, won the BAFTAFilm Award, and then the Celtic Media
Festival Award, the Vevy International FunnyFilm Festival Award, and then nineteen ninety
five the Academy Award goes to PeterCapaldi and Ruth Kenley. Lets Yeah,

(38:57):
so It's Wild. Watched a shortclip from Peter Capaldi's appearance on Oh Graham
Norton, Graham Norton, where PeterCapaldi was sort of I guess, you
know, having won all these awardsfor the short film at the end,
you know, short films can takeyou places. They lead to movies and
they lead to things. And hewas talking about how very excited he was
because now he had a meeting inHollywood. I think it's New York was

(39:22):
a Hollywood anyway. Either way,Yeah, it was a meeting very important
people. And he was like,here it is. This is the start
of my next career as a writerand a director. And they send a
driver for him and it's all veryfancy, and he's telling the driver that
you know, he's got this scriptand they're gonna sign it and da da

(39:43):
da da da. And gets tothe place and the drivers like, I'll
wait. He's like, no,no, no, I'm gonna I'm gonna
be. It's gonna meeting like we'lldrink it, will celebrate. It could
be hours and hours and the driverslike I've been told away. And then
so Peter gives them this big tipbecause he's a big shot. Now life's
on the move. He goes tothe meeting and they're like it's not happening.

(40:04):
And so he goes back to thedriver you know, Charlie Brown style,
and tells someone. The driver giveshim his tip pack because he doesn't
have any money left. So Ibet I was. I was interesting.
And if Peter could have gone andbecome a director and screenwriter, YE kind
of left acting behind quote unquote notGod's will. And so say, do

(40:28):
we get Peter becoming the Twelfth Doctordecades later and seems to be doing just
fine. Yes, I mean startingand starring in a long lost relatives and
music videos and everything else and everything. I don't know how lost he was.
So it was Lewis, that's theguys. Now. I was like

(40:50):
trying to come up with it.So okay, I got it all right.
Well, until next time. Enjoythe Doctor's many adventures throughout time and
space. This is BBC Television.