Who ... Dun Dun?

Law & Order: UK

Those Whovian actors pop up in other series all the time, but maybe the greatest collection can be found in the rare U.S. to U.K.-made television show, "Law & Order: UK." From American producer Dick Wolf, stories ripped from its American counterpart are acted out on the streets of London by "Doctor Who" companions "Law" actor Bradley Walsh and "Order" actress Freema Agyeman. We discuss series 1 and 2 (inexplicable labeled "season one" on the U.S. DVD) of this procedural show, its other Who connections, and how this American show works as a British legal drama.

Episode Transcript

(00:03):
Welcome to the nerd Party. Inthe criminal justice system, the people are

(00:29):
represented by two separate yet equally importantgroups, the police who investigate crime and
the Crown prosecutors who prosecute the offenders. These are their stories. Welcome to
Time and Space, a Doctor Whopodcast. I'm Jessica Nunn and I'm her
husband and co host Philip your office. Well, we're going to do something
slightly different. I'm still Doctor Whorelated, but not necessarily Doctor Who.

(00:53):
We're going a little off pissed.That's right, of course, the old
jokes. There's only five actors inBritain. But there's one show that I
noticed. It's off the air,but that has a lot of Doctor Who
characters, and that is Law andOrder UK. Don't there you go.
So we recently watched oddly enough labeledas season one here in the US,

(01:15):
but in britain's actually series one andtwo of the series, and it aired
in two thousand and nine, inseries two in two thousand and ten.
So before we get into it,what is your American Law and Order background?
I don't have a whole lot.I've never been and I guess that's

(01:36):
the thing with any sort of proceduraldramas. You can dip in and out
of it without I mean, obviouslythere are three lines, but they're not
vital, right, So you canwatch one episode and never seen anything else,
and that's okay. And so I'vedefinitely seen various versions of Law and

(01:57):
Order. I couldn't tell you whatI've seen, particularly, like I know
Jerry Orbach was on it for awhile, Jesse Martin. Yes, Chris,
yes, he's one of the firstone. That's what I was thinking.
Um. And so I'm aware thatit exists and that there are various

(02:20):
types of it. Um, ButI couldn't do much more than that.
I've I mean, I have abig Law and Order a fan, But
of the original series, if that'swhat it's called, I've never watched.
I was never interested in any ofthe other ones. SEU Special Victims Units
were just still the one that Iyes, ice cube yes, wait now

(02:42):
we're all thinking of it's ice toyour ice cube? Yeah, but anyway,
Um, the answer is yes.And then there's criminal intent. That
was Vince Vince Vaughn okay, yeah, and Dinofrio there you go. Yeah,
No, that's a different vice.Yeah, you're right. The similar
body type now that I think aboutit. But anyway, um, and
then there was another one. Therewas there was a real life one.
It didn't last very long, likeit was real prosecutors story, which that

(03:07):
sounds familiar, which I was interestedin, um because you know at the
time being a criminal lawyer. Um. But you know, but that's growing
up. That's made me went tooand I went to law school. B
Jack McCoy, who was the prosecutoror the you know, the assistant district
attorney in the original Law in Order. But it was interesting because I watched
it sort of when it was onum. But then I watched the beginning,

(03:30):
you know, went back and gotthe DVDs in the first the first
two seasons. I might be sayingthat wrong, but anyway, it was
sort of like a cast that Ihad never seen before. So there was
a district attorney Like it wasn't JackMcCoy. It was like, uh,
I want to say, I can'tremember his name. I want to convict.
He actually reminds me a lot ofthe Ada here in the in the
UK version. Um, I wantto say, Ben Stone. That might

(03:52):
be wrong. Um. And thenit sort of had and that sort of
had an African American other ad whichI thought was very similar to what we're
gonna talk about with UK. Butthe thing is he never tried a case.
That's why I was when I waswatching it. That was the whole
thing. It was always well yeah, yeah, so we were like,
you know that racist or that whatever. Um. And like years later he

(04:13):
would come back as a defense attorneyrole for a cameo. But then after
like that first DA pairing of youknow Ben and I can't remember the guy's
name off the top of my head. Um. I was always a woman.
So it was always you know,Jack McCoy and companion, you know,
I mean, don't get me wrong. There there were a lot of
good role Angie Harmon, that's whereor she got big, um, and

(04:35):
they've had a lot of good ones. Um. And didn't watch it forever.
You know, eventually we did golfthe air, but um for as
far as the law side with thewith the cops, um, you know,
Chris Noff was there in the beginningthey killed off the original guy.
Um he was his partner. Yeah, and then um Jerry or watch camp

(04:55):
and stayed there for forever, youknow, the fourth doctor of of Cops
if you will, and then itwas like Chris Nath and then it was
I think Jesse Martin was after him, and that was sort of the cast
that I enjoyed the best when itwas Jerry Orbach and Jesse Martin, and
I think eventually Jesse Martin being ofRent Fang originated Tom Collins, yes,

(05:16):
in Rent. So so it's interestingto sort of see it's it's you know,
I guess it's like it's any procedural, but you know, as a
bad analogy, it's kind of likeDoctor Who because you just have the procedural
and the characters can come, well, we'll leave, and you just bring
in new characters. And yeah,it goes on and on. And it's
also I mean it's great for jobbingactors or new actors. I mean everybody

(05:40):
has been on Law and Order.Law and Order, yeah, yeah,
Lin Manuel Miranda was on Law andOrder. Um uh, Captain Marvel,
Brie Larson, you know, Imean everybody, everybody who's anybody, And
to be fair, that's sort ofit's interesting for Britain because they don't do
as many procedurals like this. Um, it's more things like doctors. Everybody's

(06:05):
been on doctors in the UK.Okay, that's an actual show. I
was like, you're just saying that'show you say medical shows and about doctors.
But yeah, so so yeah,I come to this series both of
course from real life Criminal practice andthe American version, Dick Wolf American version,

(06:26):
and so watching this series, youknow, it's it's a drama,
of course, and we'll talk intoit, but I'm also trying to like
learn the UK criminal system, likewhat are the differences, what's you know
when when you're Jack McCoy, youknow, you represent the state of New
York and his case, but inthe UK you represent the crown um And
then we'll get into it. Butlike another little thing would be that um

(06:49):
in Law and Order, the DAwhich has been played by a few different
people. So you know, Jack'sboss is elected. He's an elected position
from the people of Manhattan usually thinkit's where on Order takes place, you
know, whereas in UK that's anappointed physician from I don't know how high
it goes up, but I don'tknow at some point in the government,

(07:09):
you know, that's an appointed positionwith the Bill Patterson place, so he's
not so in Law and Order America, that's always a response. You know
what if we do this, youknow, what's that going to become election
time or you know or you know. And so you're representing the people and
whereas not you're representing the crown,you can be maybe a little more moral,

(07:30):
you know black and wye. Ohthe guy who played the what the
district attorney at one point was theguy who then eventually was in Congress,
Right you know who I'm talking about. I don't off the top of my
head. Doesn't mean that's a truestory of course. Um. Yeah.
Anyway, so we'll get into theactual lawn order UK. So let's start
with our Doctor Who folks. Sowe have Bradley Walsh, yes, as

(07:55):
DS Ronnie Brooks. Yep. Sowhat do you think of Bradley Walsh in
this role? Yeah, it justpossible that had I seen him in this,
I would have been more open toDoctor Who, but not necessarily because
again in this, because it's proceduraland because you don't get a lot of

(08:20):
what's happening in their home lives kindof thing sort of sprinkled in. Yeah,
it's like a West Wing almost,you know, they live their work
and then every day with some sprinkleof a personal line up. Yeah,
but we don't care about their homelives. I mean, as far as
the show, we didn't care aboutyeah. Yeah, So yeah, no,
I enjoyed him. What do youthink, Well, I thought it.
In some ways, I'm beginning tosee him as a type cast.

(08:41):
Not in a bad way other thanEvil Clown and Sarah Jane um, but
based on both this role in DoctorWho, he sort of has that blue
collar older but I mean, Idon't know, maybe it's like a British
archetype, but I mean Americas,it's a very weird blue collar with a
heart. Ago. Yeah, youdon't necessarily see that in America. I

(09:01):
mean, it's maybe a sad thing. You don't see it in America.
But but I mean he's he's thekind that is like I mean sensitive is
the wrong word, but like,even though he's an older I mean he's
not in this part necessarily, buthe's the older character compared to the other
people. Um, but he's theone I think it would be most progressive.
I don't say that politically per se, but he's an open minded I'll
say that even though he has allthis experience and you think, like,

(09:22):
oh, he's old and he's grizzhis way. Maybe he's always like I
don't you gotta think about he gottakeep your mind open, you know.
Maybe this is a dirty cop.Maybe this is a you know, you
can't judge this person because they're ina prostitution. You know, like this
is just all this stuff. He'svery which is the same as he is
in Doctor Who. I mean,he's the older character. He's very open
for anything, a gentle kind word, you know, and he's always eating

(09:46):
in both roles for always eating.Yeah, maybe he's like Robert Downey Junior
and just hide snacks and places onthe set and they occasionally show up on
filming. But but I don't theysort of haven't given that gritty back ground
that he's in an alcoholic and youknow, been married a few times.
I think he has kids, Ibelieve. So, yeah, teenage girls,

(10:07):
I want to say, um,but it's interesting you don't see that
role that I think of in America. So I don't know if that's a
broad type or just something that BradleyWalls tends to play. Yeah, when
he's not playing the chase. Yeah. Um, our other main Doctor Who
person is Freema Ajaman, who playsAlicia Phillips, who uh, I guess

(10:30):
we would call an ada but jase, she's a Crown prosecutor. Um,
it's never clear whether she's like Iguess she is. I mean, because
it always seems like she's a junior, yeah, associate or something. I
don't know, but like, becauseI was about to say, is he's
just like a researcher or a paralegal, But I mean she argues's cases,
so she is a yeah, Iwouldn't go so far as paralegal, but
yeah, junior. And what doyou think of her? Her one thing

(10:56):
I always find interesting is her roleagain procedurals is to be the same thing
every every week. But like herrole always seems to be like come in
with all the answers, like theexposition, like, oh, come in
and I've talked to the person,this is what happened, and this is
what they said this, Oh shue, I thought we had a problem there.
Yeah, and I'm holding a lotof files. Yes, she might
have spent both of these series pregnant, as they were just covering it up

(11:18):
by just giving her files all thetime. Although she gets a protagonist role
at one point, I think weknow because of that in particular, we
know more about her than we knowabout the others. And then there's a
little bit of flirty flirts, right, both with the Ada and with the

(11:43):
Copper. Right. So yeah,I mean, well we have we've only
seen the first two series. Wedon't know if this goes anywhere. I
know, characters or actors I shouldsay, well, characters and actors will
change out throughout the series. Butit's interesting if that ever goes anywhere,
because you know, on one hand, it probably shouldn't, and as much
as you want to keep the proceduralgoing, but it's like if it does,

(12:05):
it's gonna be like the trope oflike, well, if they get
together, then there's one of themis being written out or something. Yeah,
well I thought one thing that again, these are just little things,
just because I don't know how muchis drama and how much is you know,
reflective of actual life in um,the criminal justice system in the UK
or at least in London here.Um. But like, the one thing
that this is just different is therip. You talk about the files,

(12:28):
they'll have ribbons wrapped around them.I've never seen that in my life in
America. Um, so I don'tknow if that's just how they keep files
there in the UK, but allthe you always had ribbons, whether it's
in the court or in the officeor the Crown Prosecutor Office or whatever.
So their official her Royal majesty ribbons, I assume, sure, why not

(12:50):
so, but I feel like therehas to be a ribbon makers like he
is. I just feel like thoseare easy to take off and put on,
like you know you got and thenlike, well they might be attached.
Maybe they'll like that, you know, the elastic thing did you sometimes
get around big files? So maybethey're attached at the back. Ye just
seemed very different to mean, justlittle things like that. And then um,

(13:11):
he'd been a doctor, who ofcourse, I guess you could say
everyone has been, but he wastechnically a doctor. And that's Bill Patterson.
He plays George Castle and he's thedirector of London CPS. He would
be sort of your district attorney herein America. He was in Victory of
the Dollecs if you remember, heplayed the sort of ended up being like
the Dolleck robot that was made topretend to be like he invented the Yeah,

(13:33):
of course, so what did youthink of his role as the head
dude? Now, I can onlythink about how much I liked him in
Victory of the Dollars. He waslovely in that. Yeah, No,
he's fine, he's fine. Gruff, Yeah, hard line, and again
that sort of as the American version, because there were two ones that I

(13:54):
remember, and I think there's athird one of them. I can't remember
the actor's names, but the firstDistrict Jerney, the main guy, I
can't remember his name, but hewas an older gentleman and I think he's
supposed to be based on an actualManhattan d at the time. And then
Diane west Waste, yeah played shewas the second one. Um. But
yeah, they're always sort of liketo get it done, and just get

(14:16):
the deal done, and I've gotan election to win, or you know,
just telling the main or you know, the main assist could just Contourney
of the cps in this case,you know, just know that they're just
barking orders. I mean, hedidn't really necessarily bark order. He sometimes
did, but you know, buteven in this one, he's a out
sort of doing the well, thehustle's not the right word, but I

(14:37):
was going to say a little morehands on the formal events. He's doing,
you know, the glad handing,the political machinations. Though I don't
know how much you have to dothat, but apparently you do here in
London. But he's sort of,you know, yeah, letting the assistants
deal with the actual Um what doyou think of the one episode where he

(14:58):
had that sort of very yeah,it took the sabbatical and his friend.
Yeah, I don't know, Iguess you can do that. I don't
think you've done America, but goahead you say that. But all of
these are based on American episodes,right, so you know, now we
have to go back, and nowwe need to go back and like match

(15:20):
him up and be like, ohthis is that watched the episode side by
side? That might be too indepth. Yeah, that was kind of
a weird way. You sort ofhad like sort of like fantasy of like
what would happen if George Castle andJames Steele thought against each other in the
courtroom. It's a very fan fayeah, yeah, but it was very
I mean, they would you know, he's George Shutt even though he's you

(15:41):
know, the old guy, hestill can be inside a courtroom yeah,
so you know, I thought hewas interesting. He h. He was
very I mean, I think it'svery deliberately done. He sort of played
like the main boss. Well becauselike when Alicia goes through her rape and
he doesn't know how to talk toher, so he's like talk to like
James like social right, you know, I don't know, I'm not talking,

(16:03):
you know, just sort of likethat old school like I don't I
don't know what to do here.I'm not going to do anything, and
my wife's not here, so Ican't be in there exactly. Whether No,
he's not like that. Um andyeah, before we get into the
rest of the characters, I guessif folks aren't familiar with this series,
I suppose a little bit of explanation. Um. And so Dick Wolfe,
who's the executive producer of Law andOrder here in America, basically exported the

(16:26):
show to UK, which I thinkis perhaps one of the few American shows
to cross the pond into the UKusually the other way around. Um,
and all of the episodes are basedon American episodes, so you know,
whether it's the germ of the ideaor whatever. You know, So someone's
getting royalties but of course the showrunnerfor Law and Order UK I guess we
should have mentioned is oh, yes, of course. Yeah. So he

(16:51):
wrote a lot of the episodes andsort of the story adapted. Yeah,
well that's a better word. You'readapted a lot of them and so yeah,
so that's that's the bigger doctor whoconnects as well. So I don't
know if that's when he first metBradley Walsh or not, and again does
a nice job with it. Whywhy why does he not do so well
with doctor Hood? I don't know. I don't know, all right,

(17:15):
Well, our rest of our castbecause the procedural is you have two cops,
you have two lawyers, and youhave the main cop and the main
lawyer. So to round up theother cop is DS Matt Devlin played by
Jamie Bamber who's also got some scifi history, right Battlestar Galactica, at
least the reboot, because I cansay reboot probably that was a better description

(17:37):
of that. Um it's not acontinuation from the old series or whatever or
restart. Um. It strikes me. I don't know if the timelines back
this up, but it almost strikesme that Lawn Order UK, it sort
of was both Freema and Jamie's sortof like I'm still working series because she
got off Doctor Who at around thesame time as he has Battlestar Galactica rap

(18:00):
up, so there, of coursehe was coming from America from battletarcle act
here. But anyway, so they'relike, you know, I got a
TV show though, still I'm stillin it, you know. So what
would you think of Jamie's job asMatt Devlin, Yeah, doing his northern
accident whatever. He's a little cutiepie, didn't they a little fresh faced
idealist? Um? But yeah,it's been fun. Yeah, yeah,

(18:25):
yeah, I mean the flirty guyum and uh yeah, he often had
he was almost more hard nosed thanBradley Walsh's character, which would think the
younger guy would be not but youknow, he tended to be a little
more black and white, and Ronniewould be like, you know, has
a little more nuance are gray.Yeah, so Ronnie calls him Maddie though.
Yeah. And then you have HarrietWalter playing DII Natalie Chandler as sort

(18:51):
of the the head captain you knowin the American series it would be the
captain um governor. Yeah, thatdid throw me off. I'm trying to
remember who did in the original Ican in the original lowner, I can
picture hymns um then followed up bya black actress and name also escapes me
too. But anyway, but theoriginal captain did come back and play the

(19:11):
captain and one of the other allin order series. Okay, anyway,
blah blah blah, But anyway,I know too much about this, but
I know, I know. Um. She doesn't necessarily have a lot to
do. I mean, she's notunimportant. But what do you think of
her? I liked her. Ienjoyed her a lot. She Yeah,
liked her As an actress again,she's sort of the mayor of the main

(19:33):
of a George's role, where shejust sort of like, all right,
well, you know, go talkto the go talk to the witnesses.
Yeah, you know, go findme a motive of virgin. They are
both really the drivers, the motivatorswell and for story purposes, the person
that the others explained the exposition to. They're not really the audience because they're

(19:57):
not going what's happened, you know, but they are the driving force of
the exposition. I have to gotell all of the things we found out
to this person, so the audiencealso knows, and it always has to
be that one of the cops istalking to her explaining and the other cop
is getting off the phone with theexact next lead they need. Yep,

(20:18):
yeah, hey, sometimes it worksout that way. Oh no, no,
I mean every episode. And thenwrapping up, our sort of main
cast is Ben Daniels as James SteeleCPS. Would you think of him to
I mean to me, and maybethis is just sort of my bias,
like he's almost, to me themain character. I mean, there all

(20:40):
are, but he's sort of themain main character. Yeah. Something about
him reminds me of like a softerDaniel Craig And I don't know why,
um, but yeah, yeah,because he uh not to you know,
play on the words. He doeshave this sort of steal about him,

(21:00):
but he does have the very moralistand not in a bad way, but
that self righteous moralistic like I'm inthis to do justice, you know,
for the victims. And although he'stotally been shagging that oh defense attorney.
Yeah well yeah, yeah, becausehe's also I believed divorced. Yes,

(21:21):
it's intimated that, Yeah, he'sdivorced and because he has a kid as
well. He's always like, oh, either kid this weekend or some variances
of that. Hum. So yeah, but I mean you can sort of
see sort of like dedicated to thejob, and you know, I'm sure
no relationships can last because he's therefor the UM. And to me,
it's a very contrast like he remindsme of Ben Stone the original Day in

(21:45):
America UM, who had a verylike moralistic thing UM. Whereas Jack McCoy,
even though he was my favorite growingup, the more I actually would
like study law like, he's incrediblyunethical. You know, he's sort of,
I don't know, out for thewin more than out for the justice,
even though he would frame it usat that. Yeah, because I

(22:07):
mean, and you know, Ithink that, well this is me.
I'm not gonna get a soapbox here, but I think the danger of some
of these UM cop lawyer shows prosecutorshows is that you know, it's it's
always the always the right, andI'm like, there's a lot of times
prosecutors mess up and a lot oftimes cops mess up. So you know,
a lot of times there were grayareas and a lot of times yeah,

(22:29):
yeah, So I mean, Ialways think that's a slight danger at
least that in America, you know, if they don't have many of these
in Britain. But in America wehave a lot of cop shows and a
lot of prosecutor shows, and sometimesit makes them a little more than perhaps
they should be. But anyway,we won't go on that. So um
some side Hohovian appearances, and theremay have been a few, but the
one that sort of jumped out usone episode was Sean perchwey, yep,

(22:52):
yes, this was the um,yeah, it was the vice I was
gonna call it the prostitution episode.I thought probably wasn't appropriate, but that's
what it was. Actually. Ithink working Mom. I wonder if this
is the I'm sorry, we havea sheet in front of us. I
think this is the American one.And I think that's no, no,
no, that's the American one.The American title was working Mom. Um.
But as soon we don't even haveto try and figure it out.

(23:14):
We can just go find them.See this was called advice. Um.
This was an interesting episode in asmuch as I thought it would was,
because I mean, this was twothousand and nine and and I don't know
how this would be done in theUK. But it's in this episode.
Long story short, these two sortof middle class, upper middle class women

(23:36):
mothers um are basically running a prostitutionring, but not really a ring,
they're just prostate two of them.Yes, yeah, but I'll say it
that affront because yeah, um,but I think it's done well in other
words, you know, with howwe've used sex workers now and of course
it'll always evolving. Like I don'tthink they're necessarily stigmatized during the episod.

(24:00):
I mean a little bit, butthat's the way humans are. But I
don't think. But then are theynot stigmatized because they're sex workers or are
they not stigmatized because they're middle class? Yeah? I think yeah, that's
a sort of like because the episodeis like, I don't know, they
need money or I forget the reasonwhy the US is not doing it.
I forget the reasons why. Butanyway, yeah, but yeah, Sean

(24:22):
Pertwee is one of the John's ifyou will, I suppose the falls in
love and they're like, nope,sorry, this is just a business get
away from me. So yeah,there you guys. He has to have
a very He had a very understatedperformance, but like as soon as we
saw him, like, well,I assume he's the killer for Sean Party,
but he was not kill he wasspoilers. Yeah, yeah, So
anyway, um, so just tofocus a little bit on it, so,

(24:45):
I mean, you know, youdon't have to go episode by episode
that they're there if you want anyreminding, but any um, asked any
episodes that jumped off for any momentsthat popped out for you. Um.
I liked the Dirty Cop one becauseI thought it was really an interesting you
know, you were talking about RonnieBrooks being the open minded one, but

(25:10):
when Matt Devlin comes to him,initially he shuts it down right, but
then further along and is willing tocontinue to testify, even to his own
detrimentum, in order to to naila friend, which is you know,

(25:33):
interesting. And I mean obviously Idon't know London that well, um I
suppose, and I don't know howthis it's organized as far as London in
real life, as far as youknow, like Manhattan is part of New
York City, an you know,Burroughs and all that stuff. I don't
know. I know they were seriesstarted them in the King's Cross area.
I don't know what you call neighborhood. I don't I don't know what you

(25:55):
call them. But anyway, Ididn't know how what that you call the
sector or their districtor anyway, buthow much of that character has brought out,
you know, in the show,because anyway, in the Law and
Order at least, you know,New York City is always very much the
character. And so I don't knowhow how London came across, because they
said they would just film sometimes justin the streets, yeah, and people

(26:15):
would let them. Yeah, andthat was fun. Whereas you know,
because I mean that that I knowfrom a personal experience, would always hear
that in New York. You know, you just would of course to see
Law and Order filming. You know, you see Jerry or about Jerry,
and you just leave them alone andthey do their thing, you know,
big cities, but just you're justnot as impressed people have things to do
in places to see. Yeah.Um, but you know I liked their

(26:38):
chemistry. Um uh. Bradley Walshand Jamie Jamie Um as the two characters
you sort of had the you know, the older the younger um. But
in surprising ways they sort of hadreverse roles, but I thought they worked
well together. You don't really getthe good cop, bad cops sort of
thing. Yeah, that was anotherthing again, just to talk about procedure

(27:00):
a little bit, just how itis different from America, you know,
an end the American version and juston American cop shows in particular, and
just and again, I don't knowhow much is drama and how much is
legal reality, which is the sameand well in order in America. You
know, some of that's obviously shouldn'tor could it be done in real life.
But anyway, I noticed in theUK version they always have I don't

(27:22):
know if that's that's an actual attorneyor solicitor or whatever the word would be,
but they always the person of interestalways has a person next to them
in that interview room, and it'salways on tape, like they always have
the tape going, which that's notnecessarily you know, the practice here in
America. Unfortunately, sometimes I mustof them have cameras in the interrogation room.

(27:44):
But you know, it always seemedlike there was always a person in
the in the UK version, theydidn't know it seems like they're ever interceded
like that was a non speaking Roles. I guess you could get trying to
get your your screen time in theUK, um, because this person sitting
next to hardly ever said anything,but that was always the interview or the
interrogation or well, and I wonderif it's an advocate rather than a solicitor,

(28:06):
you know, like if they don'thave a solicitor yet or because it's
certainly not. It's almost never theperson who then tries it in court,
right, and so whether or notthey have advocates on standby whose job it
is just to you know, yeah, thank surely the police don't beat them
up or something. Yeah a littlebit, yeah, yeah, I mean

(28:29):
so, I mean, or makedirty deals or whatever. And it's all
on tape, which again is veryinteresting. I mean, of course,
I'm another different aspect to watching theUK version. Again, if you live
in the UK, you're like,that's just life. But we don't have
CCTV in America, and so that'svery interesting in the UK. That's always
part of the inner or the investigationprocess. Now, of course, a

(28:53):
lot of times and it doesn't workor it wasn't pointing the right way or
wasn't on or whatever, but likethat's always tool there that they was having
to mention never tell. By thetime the CCTV talked, I was I
was in Guilford and I was walkingpast where I knew what camera was,
but somebody else was on the sidewalkcycling and the CCTV camera said please do

(29:17):
not cycle onto the sidewalk or thepavement or whatever it was. And I
was like, that's creepy. Butyeah, is that like being in the
Big brother House? Yeah? Yeah. And then look at the time that
people called the police because we weredoing we were doing Ramey and Juliet on
the street and I got stabbed andpeople called the police and the police had

(29:41):
to check the cct and we actuallyhad to arrange with the police so they
didn't see this on CCTV and thinkit was an actual murder. But I
missed all of that excitement because Iwas dead already and I'd been taken off
stage, so I was sad.But never mind. Yeah, I'm curious
how that works as much, youknow, because I don't know how CCTV

(30:03):
works, Like, in other word, is there so an actively monitoring it
or is it just like it's thereand if something you pull the tape,
if you need too, and thenhow much do you pull the tape and
how much is it just psychological thatwe just say there's cameras there. They
may or may not be operational.I don't know. Yeah, but there's
awareness there's just CCTV everywhere. Umyeah, I'm trying to think of any

(30:25):
other differences that popped out as faras um, yeah, nothing in particular.
They would have sort of their reoccurringcharacters, you know, the the
forensic team, and there's always likethe IT person and then the UM person
doing the autopsy all that stuff.So yeah, yeah, the Miranda rights

(30:45):
are different obviously. Yeah, which, to the life of me, I
still don't can't. I don't stillget what they're saying. I think.
I mean, if you're bred,you probably know what you know. In
America we can say the Miranda rightsjust because we watch police shows every day,
but I don't. I guess whatthey're saying in the UK is that
if you say something now, orif you don't say something now but you
rely on it on court later,it can be used against you, which

(31:07):
I guess is a weird thing tosay. I'm gonna understand it, but
that doesn't make sense. Yeah.I mean you can in America talk about
something in court you never talked aboutduring your interrogation. Yeah, but yeah,
it does make me like that advocatethat's in the room for them because
that government provided. Is that likewhat we call a public defender in the
United States or is it just likea oh and another difference from America and

(31:33):
um, the versus UK watching it. So talking about the episode you're talking
about with a Dirty Cop. So, in America or at least in New
York where America law or is,it's of course union and so they all
have union reps. Yeah, andso in the in an episode like that,
you'd have the union rep, theirattorney or their union representative would be
with the dirty cop. You know, you can't do this, you can

(31:56):
do that, you know, dada da, Whereas I assume it's not
necessarily that way, Okay, Andyeah, I wouldn't. I don't know.
I don't know if there's a policeunion or not. Probably I don't.
Yeah, I don't know not,but yeah, there are several teachers
unions. Yeah, I was amember of the union. I'm just trying
to see the public sector unions Ayeah, but um, but uh yeah,

(32:17):
and maybe it's just that they're nottaught. I mean, the police
union here is viciously not helpfully tight. They're you know, they're well,
quote unquote they're very good for theirmembers. But of course how you define
that very good? I don't know. Yeah, I mean, Jimmy Hoffa
asked, yeah, so, butI just have it was another different thing

(32:39):
that I noticed, because you wouldhave that um, you know, they
had I guess the when they weredoing the investigation the blonde woman, I
guess was like what we would callinternal investigations. I don't know. Yeah,
anyway, um, yeah, itwas interesting and the course you always
sort of had the sometimes the classdifferences of like you know, when they

(33:02):
were looking into the um baby whodied, Yeah, yeah, they counsel
flats. Yeah. So yeah,that's sort of the I think with one
of the first episodes care right now, Um, all right, well,
moving onto the order part. Asfar as the courtroom anything, I mean,

(33:22):
the someone who's watched TV anything strikeyou different about how they do.
They were funny wigs well, andit was interesting to me how they how
much part of the process they gointo, like they go into the dressing
room. So and I don't knowif those are like I guess they have
they're on a wig because, um, the main dude, George, in

(33:43):
that one episode where he practiced,he has like the box that he takes
from his office that has his actualwigs. I don't know if those are
if they'd have like just like wheredo you get the government issue? Man?
Yeah, it's very I find itto be a very strange holdover,
and you had sort of that.I don't know how to describe him,
that one defensive attorney. He wasalways weird and messing with it, but

(34:07):
he apparently always I guess he wassupposed to be a former prosecutor, but
he's always messing with as a wigduring the trial. I think that's just
sort of a you know, whetherthat he was actually itching or whether he's
just trying to put people off,I don't know, but yeah, that
ceremony. I mean, the robesI can kind of get behind. I
guess since you've made me episcopal,I understand the concept of the robes,

(34:30):
but if I do find the wiga little strange, Yeah, because you
know, in America is just thejudge who wears the robe no wig,
but in UK everyone wears the robe, then the wigs everyone, though again
I couldn't determine what was for dramaticpurposes and what is in actuality, because
Freema's character never a whirlwig, didshe not. I'm just thinking there was

(34:52):
one. And first I didn't,you know, I didn't. I don't,
you know, I don't want togo there. But I was like,
this is like a race there orI don't know what they were doing
here, but like I can't rememberif I've ever ever saw another a black
attorney and if seriously, well,maybe it's not for women, but then
I would see one of the Alot of the defense attorneys were women,
and they would wear their wigs.Yeah, I don't know, I don't

(35:12):
know, So that is a differentthing. And then of course another different
thing about just you know, UKprosecutions and we're criminal justice and the United
States criminal system. It's a littlething. But for dramatic purposes, we
don't have a dock in America.Yeah. Yeah, so like there you
just have like the defense or theperson the defendant on trial just sort of

(35:36):
has their special box. But theyjust have to I guess they can sit.
I think they standing all the timeanyway, they're just sort of there
on box, yeah, above everyoneor behind everyone or whatever, which I
guess on one respect gives them awhole view. But of course in America
they just sit next to their attorneyat the defensive table, so they can
communicate partly. Yeah, presumably thenif you're in the dock, you can't

(35:58):
you know. Interesting, Yeah,I didn't get out of it. Goes
down to a theory because most ofour criminal justice system is, you know,
in opposite of what I was doing, yea, or at least doing
to us at the time as acolony. So um, yeah, but
I didn't know, So I don'tknow. What do you think of it

(36:19):
overall? I mean, I don'tknow someone who maybe didn't necessarily watch the
American version that much. But yeah, no, I enjoyed it. I
enjoyed it. It was a littlebit of light television. I wouldn't mind
seeing some of the other series.I know you sort of stumbled on this
set, didn't you. Yeah,I was familiar with it. The only
reason I was familiar with and Iforget why, is that I know somehow

(36:43):
that Peter Davidson aka the Fifth Doctoris in it. Now he's not in
it. Yet of course, butI assume he plays one of the senior
roles, whether it's the cop orthe attorney. Some reason, I want
to say it's the cop, butI don't know that for a fact.
So anyway, I saw I wasat my use of bookstore and they saw
that they had it, and itwasn't that much whatever it was, and
I was, you know, alreadyused books into credit anyway. So but

(37:04):
again again it struck me as funnybecause in the American package it says season
one, and so I was like, okay, and then when I'm doing
the research is apparently it's two series. So I don't know, So I
like, what's season two? Seriesthree and four? I don't know what.
Yeah, So anyway, so thereyou go. Yeah. So yeah,
So if you if you're if you'veseen it already, let us know

(37:24):
what you think, or if youhave it to TEENA, then you should
check it out. And I don'tknow if you haven't seen the American version,
I don't know a lot of peoplelike SVU. But then there's the
original one, so it's still onthe original one. No, it went
off because after a certain point theystarted to go through cast a little bit
quicker if people that were leaving alittle bit more, and then it just
ended and sort of so I thinkSFU sort of have been the only one

(37:45):
since then. Yeah, I thinkit's the only one that's currently on,
I believe, because there's there's anew one coming out because the original I
don't remember because I didn't watch it, but the original cops because there's the
woman on SVU and there's the guyand he left and now he's coming back
and he's gonna do his own show. Oh yeah, about that? Is
that Christoff? No no, no, no, no, no, I

(38:07):
can't think of anything else. He'sbeen so um but anyway, Oh,
I feel like I don't know whoit is. Yeah, but anyway,
so it's it still exists. Idon't I don't know. Once having gone
through law school and some criminal practice, once you watch that, you just
spend the whole thing going like,that's not right, that's not right.
They shouldn't do that, that's notno, no no, So that's really

(38:28):
hard to watch anymore. So,like I said, Jack, I remember
watching Jack mccoin think oh cool now, which I'm like, oh god,
it's ethical on ethical now, youcan't do that? What are you doing
Jack all right? Well check itout and any other doctor who related things.
But until next time, enjoy thedoctors and many adventures throughout time and
space. This is BBC Television