September 15, 2024 • 25 mins
Aaron Badgley has been a huge fan of the Beatles since he was a kid in the early 1970s. His fascination with music, inspired by his love of the Fab Four lead him to a life in radio broadcasting and music journalism.
He has a new book entitled "Dark Horse the story of George Harrison's post Beatles record label".
we discussed this and a lot more in this episode.
If you enjoy my podcast & would like to help support us without a paid subscription, why not donate a few dollars at the following site?
https://buymeacoffee.com/tsolobandq
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/tommy-solo-s-famous-friends--4318572/support.
He has a new book entitled "Dark Horse the story of George Harrison's post Beatles record label".
we discussed this and a lot more in this episode.
If you enjoy my podcast & would like to help support us without a paid subscription, why not donate a few dollars at the following site?
https://buymeacoffee.com/tsolobandq
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/tommy-solo-s-famous-friends--4318572/support.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
Welcome to Tommy Solo's Famous Friends. This is where I
get to chat with people I've connected with over the
years in the world of arts and entertainment, and today
I'm very happy to have with me music journalist, broadcaster
and author Aaron Batchley. Welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Erin Hi, Hey, Hi, thanks for having me on. This
is quite an honor and looking at the people you've interviewed,
I am quite honored to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
We welcome to the club, and I'm very happy to
have you. So, Aaron, I know you have a brand
new book. It is dark Horse Records, the George Harrison
basically after the Beatles, his record company. Editor's note the
actual title of Aaron's new book is dark Horse, The
Story of George Harrison's post Beatles record label. Now back
(01:07):
to the show, so we'll talk about that. But there's
a lot more to Aaron Badgeley than just this book.
So I want to know, as a music journalist and broadcaster,
what got you interested in the business and how did
you get into radio all those years ago to begin with?
Speaker 2 (01:23):
So you just did at George Harrison's song nice One
all those years ago. You know what I grew up
around music, and you know, back in the seventies and
back in the pre internet days, to read about the
band you liked and to understand what was going on,
you had to go to the magazines. You had to
go to the craw Daddy's, the Rolling Stone Cream. If
you were lucky, you could get Melody Maker RPM, which
(01:45):
was the Canadian Billboard. And I used to go to
a record store in Oshawa called Wilson me and they
had all these magazines along with records, and I just
devoured each and every magazine. And then I became a
member of Wings Fun Club and I used to those
monthly Well they weren't monthly. I guess they're quarterly newspapers
from Paul McCartney Wings. I just love music and I
(02:07):
like talking about music. I can't play. I come from
a very musical family. I have brothers who played music.
One brother performs to this day. But I could write
about it, and I got to the bug of writing.
I've read a book called The Beatles Illustrated Record, which
I think every Beatle fan owns. Back in seventy four.
It was kind of the bible for a long time,
(02:27):
and I thought, that's what I want to do. This
is a great book, and I think I've gone through
three copies. And then I went through three copies of
All Together Now, which is another story, because that's like
an iconic beatle book that the author of which actually
interviewed me. And I kept going, this is wrong. I
should be interviewing you. Yes, you know, this is so wrong, Wally.
(02:47):
But anyways, so I spent the first year of my
life in hospital, and I had a nurse who was
from Barbados, and I met her when I was like eighteen,
and she said, you know, you don't know this, but
I used to walk around with you. I used to
bring in tapes they would send me from Barbados, SKA
and Calypso, and she'd played this real to real at
a nursing station, and she would stay with me all
the time. She because, I'm not surprised during radio, because
(03:08):
you love music from the day you were born. So
here I am.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
Wow. Wow, that's quite the story. Oh man. I had
a son who was born at twenty five weeks to
stational and so I have a pretty good understanding of
how your life started out. That said radio, What got
you into radio? What was the path that took you there.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
I loved radio. I'm that generation, you know, we were
the ones with the transistor radios through her ears under
the covers that night, and radio was this really cool thing.
And back in those days, I sound like I'm one
hundred years old. But back in the seventies, living in Whitby,
you'd get these skips. So sometimes we get Chicago, sometimes
we get in Nashville. Sometimes we'd get all these different
(03:53):
stations from the states. In Canada, I just fell in
love with the whole notion that the disc jockey and
of course I was a big fan of ten fifty Chum,
you know, and listen to that with my mom in
the morning, and it just I love the sound. So
when I became a teenager, I literally failed math in
high school more times than I can count. Because I
(04:15):
failed math, I can't count. And really the guidance counselor
of the times that you have two choices, factory work
or maybe doing something in the arts, because you're not
completely enough there. So I went with the arts and
I went to Centennial College. But you know the funny
thing is I went in as film and TV. I
was gonna become the great Canadian director. I had all
(04:36):
these ideas for movies. But then I got into radio.
I just thought, and as my teacher Don Greywood said,
you've got the face for radio, buddy, so.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Quite ready for prime time. But yeah, pollish up your
vocal jobs.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
But I mean there was a time when radio really
meant something and you could make or break an artist.
And I just I really we loved the whole idea
behind radio and I listened to it night and day.
I mean I would always have the radio. I still do.
It drives my wife, not's except now I can access
stations from Ireland or Scotland or sometimes I listened to
this great station from Germany. Quiet. Did we just have quiet? Nope?
Speaker 1 (05:19):
That's interesting. You know the Internet has really changed all
aspects of the entertainment industry.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
Yeah for sure.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
Yeah, I mean it's really changed all aspects. And we've
got other options now available, like podcasting and so on.
So I know that it didn't take you long before
you moved up the ladder in radio. You were nineteen
when you started, and by twenty you were a production
manager for series and stations. So what exactly does a
production manager do in radio?
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Well, I don't know what they do. These days. But
back then we did all the production for commercials, specialty
radio shows. We made sure that the records got on
the air, We did the charts, we did the playlists.
We did every Friday was new music listening, meeting with
the station owner and what are we going to play
and what aren't we going to play? So all that
stuff writing commercials. My first rock and roll production though,
(06:13):
or fora into music was I did a special on
the Spoons and they had just released their second album
and they were playing Ashwa on the interviewed that I
put together an hour special. I thought I was the
coolest thing since Slice Spread that I got to do.
I was John Peel for like four minutes, and that
got me hooked on during production, and that's what got
me the full time gig, was that they got on
(06:33):
The station manager liked what I did. I mean, I
didn't think it was anything special, but you know, there
you go. And then I moved around stations and just
kept learning, and they started doing sound for my brother's
bands and other bands in Durham region, sometimes in Peterborough
because he went to school days see, so I'd go
and visit him and say, oh, can you do this?
Sound tonight. Sure, I was really lucky that I was
(06:54):
at a time when you didn't need I don't know
what it's like today, but I don't think I could
move up that quickly in twenty twenty four. And this
is in the early early eighties, and lots of things
kind of there was a willingness to try an experiment
back then that I don't think exists today. And you
would know that too. And when you listen to radio,
like you don't have the same kind of diversity on
the radio though. I remember listened to ten fifty Chum
(07:15):
and you might hear Buddy Hawlly and then the Vegis.
It was all over the place, and I love that.
But that's changed, right, So I don't know. I was lucky,
just lucky. As Ben Crosby said, call me lucky.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
That's interesting. I'm actually a few years older than you are,
and I often reminisce about the old days of AM radio, when,
as you kind of alluded to, one minute, you'd be
listening to Fleetwood Mac and then it would be Deep
Purple right after, and then over to the Eagles. So
it was a much more diverse palette of music pack
in those days, and everything really is kind of pigeonholed
(07:49):
into one category or another. Now that said, I know
that there's a lot of factors that led up to
this new book. And I suppose one is your fascinating
with the Beatles from a young age. And I know
that you had a syndicated radio show all about the Beatles,
tell Us about It for sixt year.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
It is just called Beatles Universe. And what I wanted
to do in that show. And I worked with a
guy named Eric Walker here in the city, and he
was I used to say, he's my George Martin because
he made me sound good. We had a written gang.
I've recorded my vocals. I'd say, go take all the
Alfred Hitchcock bits because you know so it made me
sound reasonably intelligent. But the idea was to say to people,
(08:30):
you know the hits, so I'll play a couple of
the hits. But you might not know this song by
Ringo Starr. You might not know this by Paul McCartney.
You might not even know that Paul McCartney's on this
Roy Harper album. You might not know that that's George
playing acoustic guitar with Jeff Healy, or you might so
I just really wanted to kind of open up the
Beatles universe, and part of that was playing stuff on
(08:50):
their respective labels. They owned Apple, Harrison owned dark Horse,
and Ringo had Ringo Records.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
And we'll be right back after this.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
I'll never forget. I got an email once from an
artist on a Ringo Records and he wrote, did you
actually play my song? And you're right, yeah, I did,
and he's like, oh, thank you. You're the first person.
This is like twenty years after being released, maybe more.
I get kind of fixated with this whole notion that
a friend of mine said, well, Paul McCarty hasn't done
anything really good since what Wings over America? You're going, No,
(09:37):
Pau mccartny's done a lot of good stuff, so is
Harrison Ringo. Why do you choose to listen to it?
That's up to you. And so what I want to
do is I would mix the hits with the obscure.
So I didn't played Pete Best his solo records. I'm
in for the deep dive. And that's what I do
kind of with my show that I currently have, is
that I try to play a lot of diversity and
play music that you might not hear on other radio stations,
(09:57):
and that's it was a fascination to me. So that's
a long answer, but there's a lot of good music
that's associated with the Beatles that people may not know.
So and Eric was the greatest because he'd say, yeah,
I don't know if we want to play this twelve
minute raga and I went well, so he'd calm me
down a bit.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
But that's interesting. Wow, you're currently at CFRU and GWELF.
Now that's campus radio, right is Yeah, So I envy
those of you in the radio industry who can pick
and choose what you play. And I know it used
to be a lot more like that. God, even as
recent as I think twenty ten, I remember walking into
(10:40):
a MOOSEFM radio station in North Bay and handing them
a CD. I was on rotation on the MOOSEFM family
of radio stations for about two years.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
That's awesome.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
That was twenty fifteen that we recorded the Introducing the
Night Crew album and I reached out and they said, well,
now everything's corporate out of Vancouver, and I couldn't even
get my foot in the door. So this is why
I appreciate people like you, because Now with campus radio,
if I send you something and you like it, you
(11:11):
can make the choice. It doesn't have to go up
the channels and to corporate somewhere. So that's enviable. Now
back to the book, there's a lot of interesting facts
in there, and there's obviously because it's George Harrison, there's
a lot of people associated with the Dark Horse Records.
But from what I understand from reading your book, this
kind of was like the phoenix rising from the ashes
(11:33):
of Apple. Would that be accurate?
Speaker 2 (11:36):
So what? One hundred percent? Harrison and a star actually
wanted to keep Apple going, But by seventy three there
was a lot of lawsuits with Alan Klein. It was
a mess. Apple had become a real you know what
is the delight in the retels. It was a golden
age for lawyers. So Harrison has started thought, look, well,
buy John and Paul out and we'll start from scratch
(11:57):
and we'll keep Apple. The reason was a group called
Splinter that he really liked, and he liked a song
called Lonely Man and he wanted to release it as
a single on Apple. But Apple, as I said, was collapsing.
So he he got advice and said, well, what a
serm my own label. Leon Russell, who was a good
friend of his, had a record label called Shelter Records,
and he said, look, George, just you know, do your
(12:18):
own thing. So Harrison did, and he struck a deal
with A and M Records. Now, the thing was that
Harrison was still signed to Capitol, so Harrison couldn't put
his own stuff out on dark Horse until after seventy five,
which he did in seventy six. But he signed Splinter,
and then he signed, of course his good friend Rabys
shay Car. And what amazed me when doing the research
of the book, I talked to a member of Splinter
(12:40):
that in seventy four and seventy three he spent eighteen
months working on the first Splinter album. He played multiple instruments,
he produced it, He produced and was on the ribyshay
Car album. He produced and recorded Living in the Material World.
Then he did dark Horse, then he did the tour.
I mean, this guy really worked and he didn't as
(13:01):
a guy from Splinter, Bill Elliot said to me, he goes,
he didn't shaft us and he didn't say like, I'm
really busy. He'd stay up all night working on a
mix and they'd come in the morning, he'd go, oh,
you know what, I've done this mix. I'm going to
go grab an hour sleep before i go work on
check Card's album kind of thing, which is pretty cool.
But yeah, it was the phoenix rising from the ashes
in Ringo of course formed Ringo Records, which had less success,
(13:22):
although a very colorful discography. If you ever want to
go down a rabbit hole and check out some of
the stuff on Ringo Records. And there was a group
on there called Stormer that I think was about ten
years too early. They were pretty good, kind of heavy metal,
hard rock. But anyways, I digress.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
Yeah, there was an obscure Ringo Star album that I had,
and I'm hard pressed to remember the name of it,
but it featured Harry Nilsen and Can't Live Without You
was like a vampire story on Oculum.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
It's not a Dracula, right?
Speaker 1 (13:54):
Yeah? Was that on Ringo Records?
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Good question. It was on Rappell Records, and there was
a combination of RCA and Apple Records, so they formed Rapple.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
So You're clothes just reminded me of that album. I
had that album and I really I played it right
through a couple of times, but I was just fascinated
by Harry Nielsen's voice, and that guy had a set
of pipes like nobody. Rabbi Shanker. When I was in
grade nine, which would have been nineteen seventy four, I've
(14:27):
always regretted that our social convenier arranged for a bus
tour to go from my hometown of North Bay to Toronto.
I'm not sure where the event was held, but it
was the concert for Bangladesh, the Dark Horse thing. So
I always regretted not having been able to go to that.
But can you imagine that must have been just something
(14:49):
for people to see.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
Well, I'll tell you something I didn't put this in
the book is that in seventy four, I was ten
and Harrison and Ravi were playing Maple Leaf Gardens shows.
It was in December, one in the afternoon, one at night,
So I skipped off school and I saved money for
months because I was working then. Long story, but I
was working and I had money. So I hopped a
(15:11):
bus and I skipped school. The school called my mother
and said, you know where's Aaron? So she put two
and two together, and as I got off the bus
in Toronto, my brother was there to meet me, and
all I said was Mom's really upset, and I said, look,
I don't care what the consequences. Let me just go
see Harrison. I don't care if I'd never see the
light of day again. I just want to see I
(15:33):
didn't get to see George. So you and I share that,
like I. You know, if you passed every and think well,
maybe next time, and there was never another time, which
is a real shame. But that close to seeing them, Tommy.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
Yeah close. I just didn't have the money and I
had a paper route, but I didn't have enough money
for the tickets to this thing. But I always regretted it.
I did see Paul McCartney live, and it was at
the SkyDome, and it was while Linda was still in
band in Wings and it was really good. But I'll
never forget how loud the bass was. Man, it was
(16:06):
just right in the gut and we were about tenth
row back. But anytime you had any connection with the Beatles,
I mean there's electricity in the air. I mean I
watched their debut on the Ed Sullivan Show and I
was mesmerized, you know, And before that, I really didn't
have that much interest in music because there just wasn't
(16:26):
anything out there that really hit me. But I think
there was some sort of a magneto hypno beam or
something that was coming out of that Ed Sullivan show
that hit all of us young boys and girls, you know,
that just made us all want to grab a guitar
or a set of drumsticks. So I get where the
fascination for the Beatles comes from. I've had it my
(16:46):
entire life. And we'll be right back after this, you know.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
During that It's a Elevon show. During that broadcast was
the only time in New York City's history where there
was not one crime committed.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
I'd heard that before. Wow.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
Yeah, can you believe that even the cribinums took an
hour off to watch the people?
Speaker 1 (17:22):
Wow? Oh man, oh god. So dark Horse Records had
a fair run, I guess. And you started to allude
to the fact that George needed to shop the label
for distribution, and he had some help from Leon Russell.
Ultimately they ended up going with A and M. Is
(17:42):
that right?
Speaker 2 (17:42):
Yeah? Yeah? Because A and M. People don't realize this
is that A and M was an artist label. Because
A and M is herb Alpert, he's the A, and
Jerry Moss, who was a songwriter, was the M. These
guys were really very artist focused, and if you look
at what was on A and M in the seventies,
I had a lot of really cool music that came
out that you know, other labels were really willing to touch.
(18:06):
You know, they were very artist friendly. But I interviewed
a gentleman who was in charge of doing the promotion
for dark Horse through A and M. He said, look,
the truth was they wanted a Beatle. Everyone knew the
contracts were coming up in seventy five, and every label
it was a big feather in the cap to have
a beetle on your label back then because seventy four.
Keep in mind that up to seventy four that solo
(18:28):
beatles were huge. McCartney, Redrosspeedway, My Love number one ringo
photograph here sixteen, Oh my my, John Lennon, imagine, I mean,
these guys were still turning out the hits and George,
my sweet Lord, give me Love, Give me peace on Earth?
What is life? Bangladesh? So A and M thought, if
we pick up dark Horse, he'll eventually go on dark Horse,
(18:49):
and we'll eventually have a Beatle, but that didn't happen
the way that they had hoped. And then once Harrison
had made the decision to sign with Water Brothers, it
was game over for me and m They just said,
you know, we're done here and they sued breach of contract.
All this It just got really ugly, but as you said,
it persevered and Harrison had a very viable label for
(19:10):
a few years there that brought a lot of good
music into the world. Splinter, he got the Stairsteps to
get back together again. Of course, you know ooh child
Henry McCulloch, the guitarist from Wings who signed a solo
deal with George. So there was an interesting label and
there was some good music on there, and I stand
by it.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
Yeah. Now you mentioned George Harrison's single what Is Love?
That was produced by Phil Spectra, wasn't it. Yes? Yeah,
well that's interesting, so was and I'm trying to think
that was dark Horse Records or was it that was
Apple Apple? Okay, Yeah, his biggest hits.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
Are on Apple when he hit dark Horse. His biggest
hits happened in the eighties, such as Common Mind Set
on You when We was fab all those years ago,
but his leg in the seventies, his big hits were
all on Apple because again the Beatles were tied to
Capitol Records, an Apple was signed to EMI. To me,
(20:08):
it's a fascinating story of record. I'm also very fascinated
by record labels, which really you know, born as the
hell out of my poor Wife, it's like, and then
they changed the design. If you look at the Canadian
Apple versus the American Apple, you know, it's like, oh
eron quiet.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
It is interesting how the men in suits or the
guys in suits come up with these different ideas for
distribution in different countries. And there are certain album covers.
I know there was one Beatles album, trying to remember
which one it was that they changed the cover. The
original album was Dolls.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
I think that the Butcher cover the Butcher cover, Yeah, yeah,
yesterday and today. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
So it's interesting how people come up with these ideas
that either work or aren't going to work. And I
get where you would be intrigued by that because there's
a lot out there and a lot of differences with
releases in known actionally. Okay, so the book is out.
It's Dark Horse, the story of George Harrison's post Beatles
record label. And who is the publisher.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
Sonic Bound, which is a company out of England who
just publishes books about music, and they're quite a cool company.
They just put out some interesting books about classic albums.
But yeah, I work with them in England. They were great.
They are great. I shouldn't say they weren't. I'm working
with them on my current projects and they're fantastic publishing companies.
(21:30):
They're very hands off until I mean some of the
stuff they were very hands on where they're saying, well,
I don't know if people really need to know the
difference in promo copies in America versus Canada. You know,
why not. They've been an absolute delight in the bookstores.
The big news I just got in the past couple
of weeks is that the Rock and Roll Hall of
Fame has put it in their archives and in their
(21:51):
library in their bookstore, which I was I didn't expect.
You know, some guy from Whitby who could barely get
through school has a book in the Rock and Roll
Hall of Fame. I'm real just knocked out, you.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
Know, so wow. I'd ask you how many copies it's sold,
but I know you can't count, so we won't go there.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
Yeah, you know when I was a social worker, right
my Boston could go. Did you do the budget?
Speaker 1 (22:13):
Er?
Speaker 2 (22:13):
Yeah, I did.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
There's a few things we need to talk about. Yeah.
That said, where can people get a copy of the
new book.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
Anyway you buy books. If it's not in stock, they'll
order for you. You can get it on Amazon, Indigo,
if you're in the States, it's Barnes and Noble. Walmart
has it. It's everywhere. I've been very lucky to have
good distribution on the book. On September the twenty ninth,
I'm going to be in Toronto at Word on the Street.
I'll be selling in autographing copies. If people want to
stop buy and see me talk with a couple of
(22:45):
other really cool authors, Canadian authors. Yeah. It's available everywhere
where fine books are sold. So yeah, it's easy to
get it should be. If not, give me a call.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
All right, very nice. Well, congratulations on the new book,
and we'll look forward to everything that's coming. So, speaking
of that, what's next for you.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
Erin, Well, I'm working at two books right now. One
is a book on a Canadian band called Klatou. There's
no book on Klatt two, and I've been very fortunate
to talk to a couple of members and I've got
access to pretty cool stuff. So I'm doing a book
about klatt too, because that, to me is a fascinating story.
And then I'm doing a book on Ringo Star strictly
(23:25):
in the seventies from January first, nineteen seventy right up
to December thirty first, nineteen seventy nine, and I'm working
on that. I got some cool interviews lined up about that.
So those two things are I'm in progress. I'm not
moving too quickly these days, but they're both fast. You
know what happens, Tommy, You started doing the research and
you just start going down these rabbins, and you know.
(23:49):
The pretty thing is the Klattoo and the Ringo book
are actually linked because of Ringo Star good DNL. He
appeared on the front cover as the character Plat two
from the film The Day There's Still And of course
Klot two got their name from that film and people
that's part of where the rumors started. The Klant two
were actually the Beatles. But then that's a fascinating time
(24:10):
in history.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
Absolutely, well, this is all interesting and good stuff, and
we're all going to be looking forward to the new
material that's coming from you. Erin. I want to thank
you so much for taking the time out of your
day to do this with me today.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
Thanks for having me on. This has been a tree.
You're great to talk with.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
Thanks the lot well, I appreciate it. Until next time, cheers.
Tommy Solo's Famous Friends is a one man production, meaning
that I've done all the work, including recording, editing, guest acquisition,
et cetera. Don't forget to look for the accompanying articles
based on these interviews at five one nine magazine dot com.
(24:45):
The theme song for Tommy Solo's Famous Friends is a
clip from my original composition The Burn. All rights reserved.
If you enjoy the show and you'd like to help
us keep it going, why don't you click on the
buy me a coffee link in the show notes, hit
the like button, subscribe all that stuff. We really appreciate it.
You can find me on Facebook and Instagram, and until
(25:08):
next time, cheers,
Welcome to Tommy Solo's Famous Friends. This is where I
get to chat with people I've connected with over the
years in the world of arts and entertainment, and today
I'm very happy to have with me music journalist, broadcaster
and author Aaron Batchley. Welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Erin Hi, Hey, Hi, thanks for having me on. This
is quite an honor and looking at the people you've interviewed,
I am quite honored to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
We welcome to the club, and I'm very happy to
have you. So, Aaron, I know you have a brand
new book. It is dark Horse Records, the George Harrison
basically after the Beatles, his record company. Editor's note the
actual title of Aaron's new book is dark Horse, The
Story of George Harrison's post Beatles record label. Now back
(01:07):
to the show, so we'll talk about that. But there's
a lot more to Aaron Badgeley than just this book.
So I want to know, as a music journalist and broadcaster,
what got you interested in the business and how did
you get into radio all those years ago to begin with?
Speaker 2 (01:23):
So you just did at George Harrison's song nice One
all those years ago. You know what I grew up
around music, and you know, back in the seventies and
back in the pre internet days, to read about the
band you liked and to understand what was going on,
you had to go to the magazines. You had to
go to the craw Daddy's, the Rolling Stone Cream. If
you were lucky, you could get Melody Maker RPM, which
(01:45):
was the Canadian Billboard. And I used to go to
a record store in Oshawa called Wilson me and they
had all these magazines along with records, and I just
devoured each and every magazine. And then I became a
member of Wings Fun Club and I used to those
monthly Well they weren't monthly. I guess they're quarterly newspapers
from Paul McCartney Wings. I just love music and I
(02:07):
like talking about music. I can't play. I come from
a very musical family. I have brothers who played music.
One brother performs to this day. But I could write
about it, and I got to the bug of writing.
I've read a book called The Beatles Illustrated Record, which
I think every Beatle fan owns. Back in seventy four.
It was kind of the bible for a long time,
(02:27):
and I thought, that's what I want to do. This
is a great book, and I think I've gone through
three copies. And then I went through three copies of
All Together Now, which is another story, because that's like
an iconic beatle book that the author of which actually
interviewed me. And I kept going, this is wrong. I
should be interviewing you. Yes, you know, this is so wrong, Wally.
(02:47):
But anyways, so I spent the first year of my
life in hospital, and I had a nurse who was
from Barbados, and I met her when I was like eighteen,
and she said, you know, you don't know this, but
I used to walk around with you. I used to
bring in tapes they would send me from Barbados, SKA
and Calypso, and she'd played this real to real at
a nursing station, and she would stay with me all
the time. She because, I'm not surprised during radio, because
(03:08):
you love music from the day you were born. So
here I am.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
Wow. Wow, that's quite the story. Oh man. I had
a son who was born at twenty five weeks to
stational and so I have a pretty good understanding of
how your life started out. That said radio, What got
you into radio? What was the path that took you there.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
I loved radio. I'm that generation, you know, we were
the ones with the transistor radios through her ears under
the covers that night, and radio was this really cool thing.
And back in those days, I sound like I'm one
hundred years old. But back in the seventies, living in Whitby,
you'd get these skips. So sometimes we get Chicago, sometimes
we get in Nashville. Sometimes we'd get all these different
(03:53):
stations from the states. In Canada, I just fell in
love with the whole notion that the disc jockey and
of course I was a big fan of ten fifty Chum,
you know, and listen to that with my mom in
the morning, and it just I love the sound. So
when I became a teenager, I literally failed math in
high school more times than I can count. Because I
(04:15):
failed math, I can't count. And really the guidance counselor
of the times that you have two choices, factory work
or maybe doing something in the arts, because you're not
completely enough there. So I went with the arts and
I went to Centennial College. But you know the funny
thing is I went in as film and TV. I
was gonna become the great Canadian director. I had all
(04:36):
these ideas for movies. But then I got into radio.
I just thought, and as my teacher Don Greywood said,
you've got the face for radio, buddy, so.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Quite ready for prime time. But yeah, pollish up your
vocal jobs.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
But I mean there was a time when radio really
meant something and you could make or break an artist.
And I just I really we loved the whole idea
behind radio and I listened to it night and day.
I mean I would always have the radio. I still do.
It drives my wife, not's except now I can access
stations from Ireland or Scotland or sometimes I listened to
this great station from Germany. Quiet. Did we just have quiet? Nope?
Speaker 1 (05:19):
That's interesting. You know the Internet has really changed all
aspects of the entertainment industry.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
Yeah for sure.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
Yeah, I mean it's really changed all aspects. And we've
got other options now available, like podcasting and so on.
So I know that it didn't take you long before
you moved up the ladder in radio. You were nineteen
when you started, and by twenty you were a production
manager for series and stations. So what exactly does a
production manager do in radio?
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Well, I don't know what they do. These days. But
back then we did all the production for commercials, specialty
radio shows. We made sure that the records got on
the air, We did the charts, we did the playlists.
We did every Friday was new music listening, meeting with
the station owner and what are we going to play
and what aren't we going to play? So all that
stuff writing commercials. My first rock and roll production though,
(06:13):
or fora into music was I did a special on
the Spoons and they had just released their second album
and they were playing Ashwa on the interviewed that I
put together an hour special. I thought I was the
coolest thing since Slice Spread that I got to do.
I was John Peel for like four minutes, and that
got me hooked on during production, and that's what got
me the full time gig, was that they got on
(06:33):
The station manager liked what I did. I mean, I
didn't think it was anything special, but you know, there
you go. And then I moved around stations and just
kept learning, and they started doing sound for my brother's
bands and other bands in Durham region, sometimes in Peterborough
because he went to school days see, so I'd go
and visit him and say, oh, can you do this?
Sound tonight. Sure, I was really lucky that I was
(06:54):
at a time when you didn't need I don't know
what it's like today, but I don't think I could
move up that quickly in twenty twenty four. And this
is in the early early eighties, and lots of things
kind of there was a willingness to try an experiment
back then that I don't think exists today. And you
would know that too. And when you listen to radio,
like you don't have the same kind of diversity on
the radio though. I remember listened to ten fifty Chum
(07:15):
and you might hear Buddy Hawlly and then the Vegis.
It was all over the place, and I love that.
But that's changed, right, So I don't know. I was lucky,
just lucky. As Ben Crosby said, call me lucky.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
That's interesting. I'm actually a few years older than you are,
and I often reminisce about the old days of AM radio, when,
as you kind of alluded to, one minute, you'd be
listening to Fleetwood Mac and then it would be Deep
Purple right after, and then over to the Eagles. So
it was a much more diverse palette of music pack
in those days, and everything really is kind of pigeonholed
(07:49):
into one category or another. Now that said, I know
that there's a lot of factors that led up to
this new book. And I suppose one is your fascinating
with the Beatles from a young age. And I know
that you had a syndicated radio show all about the Beatles,
tell Us about It for sixt year.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
It is just called Beatles Universe. And what I wanted
to do in that show. And I worked with a
guy named Eric Walker here in the city, and he
was I used to say, he's my George Martin because
he made me sound good. We had a written gang.
I've recorded my vocals. I'd say, go take all the
Alfred Hitchcock bits because you know so it made me
sound reasonably intelligent. But the idea was to say to people,
(08:30):
you know the hits, so I'll play a couple of
the hits. But you might not know this song by
Ringo Starr. You might not know this by Paul McCartney.
You might not even know that Paul McCartney's on this
Roy Harper album. You might not know that that's George
playing acoustic guitar with Jeff Healy, or you might so
I just really wanted to kind of open up the
Beatles universe, and part of that was playing stuff on
(08:50):
their respective labels. They owned Apple, Harrison owned dark Horse,
and Ringo had Ringo Records.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
And we'll be right back after this.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
I'll never forget. I got an email once from an
artist on a Ringo Records and he wrote, did you
actually play my song? And you're right, yeah, I did,
and he's like, oh, thank you. You're the first person.
This is like twenty years after being released, maybe more.
I get kind of fixated with this whole notion that
a friend of mine said, well, Paul McCarty hasn't done
anything really good since what Wings over America? You're going, No,
(09:37):
Pau mccartny's done a lot of good stuff, so is
Harrison Ringo. Why do you choose to listen to it?
That's up to you. And so what I want to
do is I would mix the hits with the obscure.
So I didn't played Pete Best his solo records. I'm
in for the deep dive. And that's what I do
kind of with my show that I currently have, is
that I try to play a lot of diversity and
play music that you might not hear on other radio stations,
(09:57):
and that's it was a fascination to me. So that's
a long answer, but there's a lot of good music
that's associated with the Beatles that people may not know.
So and Eric was the greatest because he'd say, yeah,
I don't know if we want to play this twelve
minute raga and I went well, so he'd calm me
down a bit.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
But that's interesting. Wow, you're currently at CFRU and GWELF.
Now that's campus radio, right is Yeah, So I envy
those of you in the radio industry who can pick
and choose what you play. And I know it used
to be a lot more like that. God, even as
recent as I think twenty ten, I remember walking into
(10:40):
a MOOSEFM radio station in North Bay and handing them
a CD. I was on rotation on the MOOSEFM family
of radio stations for about two years.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
That's awesome.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
That was twenty fifteen that we recorded the Introducing the
Night Crew album and I reached out and they said, well,
now everything's corporate out of Vancouver, and I couldn't even
get my foot in the door. So this is why
I appreciate people like you, because Now with campus radio,
if I send you something and you like it, you
(11:11):
can make the choice. It doesn't have to go up
the channels and to corporate somewhere. So that's enviable. Now
back to the book, there's a lot of interesting facts
in there, and there's obviously because it's George Harrison, there's
a lot of people associated with the Dark Horse Records.
But from what I understand from reading your book, this
kind of was like the phoenix rising from the ashes
(11:33):
of Apple. Would that be accurate?
Speaker 2 (11:36):
So what? One hundred percent? Harrison and a star actually
wanted to keep Apple going, But by seventy three there
was a lot of lawsuits with Alan Klein. It was
a mess. Apple had become a real you know what
is the delight in the retels. It was a golden
age for lawyers. So Harrison has started thought, look, well,
buy John and Paul out and we'll start from scratch
(11:57):
and we'll keep Apple. The reason was a group called
Splinter that he really liked, and he liked a song
called Lonely Man and he wanted to release it as
a single on Apple. But Apple, as I said, was collapsing.
So he he got advice and said, well, what a
serm my own label. Leon Russell, who was a good
friend of his, had a record label called Shelter Records,
and he said, look, George, just you know, do your
(12:18):
own thing. So Harrison did, and he struck a deal
with A and M Records. Now, the thing was that
Harrison was still signed to Capitol, so Harrison couldn't put
his own stuff out on dark Horse until after seventy five,
which he did in seventy six. But he signed Splinter,
and then he signed, of course his good friend Rabys
shay Car. And what amazed me when doing the research
of the book, I talked to a member of Splinter
(12:40):
that in seventy four and seventy three he spent eighteen
months working on the first Splinter album. He played multiple instruments,
he produced it, He produced and was on the ribyshay
Car album. He produced and recorded Living in the Material World.
Then he did dark Horse, then he did the tour.
I mean, this guy really worked and he didn't as
(13:01):
a guy from Splinter, Bill Elliot said to me, he goes,
he didn't shaft us and he didn't say like, I'm
really busy. He'd stay up all night working on a
mix and they'd come in the morning, he'd go, oh,
you know what, I've done this mix. I'm going to
go grab an hour sleep before i go work on
check Card's album kind of thing, which is pretty cool.
But yeah, it was the phoenix rising from the ashes
in Ringo of course formed Ringo Records, which had less success,
(13:22):
although a very colorful discography. If you ever want to
go down a rabbit hole and check out some of
the stuff on Ringo Records. And there was a group
on there called Stormer that I think was about ten
years too early. They were pretty good, kind of heavy metal,
hard rock. But anyways, I digress.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
Yeah, there was an obscure Ringo Star album that I had,
and I'm hard pressed to remember the name of it,
but it featured Harry Nilsen and Can't Live Without You
was like a vampire story on Oculum.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
It's not a Dracula, right?
Speaker 1 (13:54):
Yeah? Was that on Ringo Records?
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Good question. It was on Rappell Records, and there was
a combination of RCA and Apple Records, so they formed Rapple.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
So You're clothes just reminded me of that album. I
had that album and I really I played it right
through a couple of times, but I was just fascinated
by Harry Nielsen's voice, and that guy had a set
of pipes like nobody. Rabbi Shanker. When I was in
grade nine, which would have been nineteen seventy four, I've
(14:27):
always regretted that our social convenier arranged for a bus
tour to go from my hometown of North Bay to Toronto.
I'm not sure where the event was held, but it
was the concert for Bangladesh, the Dark Horse thing. So
I always regretted not having been able to go to that.
But can you imagine that must have been just something
(14:49):
for people to see.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
Well, I'll tell you something I didn't put this in
the book is that in seventy four, I was ten
and Harrison and Ravi were playing Maple Leaf Gardens shows.
It was in December, one in the afternoon, one at night,
So I skipped off school and I saved money for
months because I was working then. Long story, but I
was working and I had money. So I hopped a
(15:11):
bus and I skipped school. The school called my mother
and said, you know where's Aaron? So she put two
and two together, and as I got off the bus
in Toronto, my brother was there to meet me, and
all I said was Mom's really upset, and I said, look,
I don't care what the consequences. Let me just go
see Harrison. I don't care if I'd never see the
light of day again. I just want to see I
(15:33):
didn't get to see George. So you and I share that,
like I. You know, if you passed every and think well,
maybe next time, and there was never another time, which
is a real shame. But that close to seeing them, Tommy.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
Yeah close. I just didn't have the money and I
had a paper route, but I didn't have enough money
for the tickets to this thing. But I always regretted it.
I did see Paul McCartney live, and it was at
the SkyDome, and it was while Linda was still in
band in Wings and it was really good. But I'll
never forget how loud the bass was. Man, it was
(16:06):
just right in the gut and we were about tenth
row back. But anytime you had any connection with the Beatles,
I mean there's electricity in the air. I mean I
watched their debut on the Ed Sullivan Show and I
was mesmerized, you know, And before that, I really didn't
have that much interest in music because there just wasn't
(16:26):
anything out there that really hit me. But I think
there was some sort of a magneto hypno beam or
something that was coming out of that Ed Sullivan show
that hit all of us young boys and girls, you know,
that just made us all want to grab a guitar
or a set of drumsticks. So I get where the
fascination for the Beatles comes from. I've had it my
(16:46):
entire life. And we'll be right back after this, you know.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
During that It's a Elevon show. During that broadcast was
the only time in New York City's history where there
was not one crime committed.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
I'd heard that before. Wow.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
Yeah, can you believe that even the cribinums took an
hour off to watch the people?
Speaker 1 (17:22):
Wow? Oh man, oh god. So dark Horse Records had
a fair run, I guess. And you started to allude
to the fact that George needed to shop the label
for distribution, and he had some help from Leon Russell.
Ultimately they ended up going with A and M. Is
(17:42):
that right?
Speaker 2 (17:42):
Yeah? Yeah? Because A and M. People don't realize this
is that A and M was an artist label. Because
A and M is herb Alpert, he's the A, and
Jerry Moss, who was a songwriter, was the M. These
guys were really very artist focused, and if you look
at what was on A and M in the seventies,
I had a lot of really cool music that came
out that you know, other labels were really willing to touch.
(18:06):
You know, they were very artist friendly. But I interviewed
a gentleman who was in charge of doing the promotion
for dark Horse through A and M. He said, look,
the truth was they wanted a Beatle. Everyone knew the
contracts were coming up in seventy five, and every label
it was a big feather in the cap to have
a beetle on your label back then because seventy four.
Keep in mind that up to seventy four that solo
(18:28):
beatles were huge. McCartney, Redrosspeedway, My Love number one ringo
photograph here sixteen, Oh my my, John Lennon, imagine, I mean,
these guys were still turning out the hits and George,
my sweet Lord, give me Love, Give me peace on Earth?
What is life? Bangladesh? So A and M thought, if
we pick up dark Horse, he'll eventually go on dark Horse,
(18:49):
and we'll eventually have a Beatle, but that didn't happen
the way that they had hoped. And then once Harrison
had made the decision to sign with Water Brothers, it
was game over for me and m They just said,
you know, we're done here and they sued breach of contract.
All this It just got really ugly, but as you said,
it persevered and Harrison had a very viable label for
(19:10):
a few years there that brought a lot of good
music into the world. Splinter, he got the Stairsteps to
get back together again. Of course, you know ooh child
Henry McCulloch, the guitarist from Wings who signed a solo
deal with George. So there was an interesting label and
there was some good music on there, and I stand
by it.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
Yeah. Now you mentioned George Harrison's single what Is Love?
That was produced by Phil Spectra, wasn't it. Yes? Yeah,
well that's interesting, so was and I'm trying to think
that was dark Horse Records or was it that was
Apple Apple? Okay, Yeah, his biggest hits.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
Are on Apple when he hit dark Horse. His biggest
hits happened in the eighties, such as Common Mind Set
on You when We was fab all those years ago,
but his leg in the seventies, his big hits were
all on Apple because again the Beatles were tied to
Capitol Records, an Apple was signed to EMI. To me,
(20:08):
it's a fascinating story of record. I'm also very fascinated
by record labels, which really you know, born as the
hell out of my poor Wife, it's like, and then
they changed the design. If you look at the Canadian
Apple versus the American Apple, you know, it's like, oh
eron quiet.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
It is interesting how the men in suits or the
guys in suits come up with these different ideas for
distribution in different countries. And there are certain album covers.
I know there was one Beatles album, trying to remember
which one it was that they changed the cover. The
original album was Dolls.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
I think that the Butcher cover the Butcher cover, Yeah, yeah,
yesterday and today. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
So it's interesting how people come up with these ideas
that either work or aren't going to work. And I
get where you would be intrigued by that because there's
a lot out there and a lot of differences with
releases in known actionally. Okay, so the book is out.
It's Dark Horse, the story of George Harrison's post Beatles
record label. And who is the publisher.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
Sonic Bound, which is a company out of England who
just publishes books about music, and they're quite a cool company.
They just put out some interesting books about classic albums.
But yeah, I work with them in England. They were great.
They are great. I shouldn't say they weren't. I'm working
with them on my current projects and they're fantastic publishing companies.
(21:30):
They're very hands off until I mean some of the
stuff they were very hands on where they're saying, well,
I don't know if people really need to know the
difference in promo copies in America versus Canada. You know,
why not. They've been an absolute delight in the bookstores.
The big news I just got in the past couple
of weeks is that the Rock and Roll Hall of
Fame has put it in their archives and in their
(21:51):
library in their bookstore, which I was I didn't expect.
You know, some guy from Whitby who could barely get
through school has a book in the Rock and Roll
Hall of Fame. I'm real just knocked out, you.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
Know, so wow. I'd ask you how many copies it's sold,
but I know you can't count, so we won't go there.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
Yeah, you know when I was a social worker, right
my Boston could go. Did you do the budget?
Speaker 1 (22:13):
Er?
Speaker 2 (22:13):
Yeah, I did.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
There's a few things we need to talk about. Yeah.
That said, where can people get a copy of the
new book.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
Anyway you buy books. If it's not in stock, they'll
order for you. You can get it on Amazon, Indigo,
if you're in the States, it's Barnes and Noble. Walmart
has it. It's everywhere. I've been very lucky to have
good distribution on the book. On September the twenty ninth,
I'm going to be in Toronto at Word on the Street.
I'll be selling in autographing copies. If people want to
stop buy and see me talk with a couple of
(22:45):
other really cool authors, Canadian authors. Yeah. It's available everywhere
where fine books are sold. So yeah, it's easy to
get it should be. If not, give me a call.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
All right, very nice. Well, congratulations on the new book,
and we'll look forward to everything that's coming. So, speaking
of that, what's next for you.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
Erin, Well, I'm working at two books right now. One
is a book on a Canadian band called Klatou. There's
no book on Klatt two, and I've been very fortunate
to talk to a couple of members and I've got
access to pretty cool stuff. So I'm doing a book
about klatt too, because that, to me is a fascinating story.
And then I'm doing a book on Ringo Star strictly
(23:25):
in the seventies from January first, nineteen seventy right up
to December thirty first, nineteen seventy nine, and I'm working
on that. I got some cool interviews lined up about that.
So those two things are I'm in progress. I'm not
moving too quickly these days, but they're both fast. You
know what happens, Tommy, You started doing the research and
you just start going down these rabbins, and you know.
(23:49):
The pretty thing is the Klattoo and the Ringo book
are actually linked because of Ringo Star good DNL. He
appeared on the front cover as the character Plat two
from the film The Day There's Still And of course
Klot two got their name from that film and people
that's part of where the rumors started. The Klant two
were actually the Beatles. But then that's a fascinating time
(24:10):
in history.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
Absolutely, well, this is all interesting and good stuff, and
we're all going to be looking forward to the new
material that's coming from you. Erin. I want to thank
you so much for taking the time out of your
day to do this with me today.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
Thanks for having me on. This has been a tree.
You're great to talk with.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
Thanks the lot well, I appreciate it. Until next time, cheers.
Tommy Solo's Famous Friends is a one man production, meaning
that I've done all the work, including recording, editing, guest acquisition,
et cetera. Don't forget to look for the accompanying articles
based on these interviews at five one nine magazine dot com.
(24:45):
The theme song for Tommy Solo's Famous Friends is a
clip from my original composition The Burn. All rights reserved.
If you enjoy the show and you'd like to help
us keep it going, why don't you click on the
buy me a coffee link in the show notes, hit
the like button, subscribe all that stuff. We really appreciate it.
You can find me on Facebook and Instagram, and until
(25:08):
next time, cheers,
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Ruthie's Table 4
For more than 30 years The River Cafe in London, has been the home-from-home of artists, architects, designers, actors, collectors, writers, activists, and politicians. Michael Caine, Glenn Close, JJ Abrams, Steve McQueen, Victoria and David Beckham, and Lily Allen, are just some of the people who love to call The River Cafe home. On River Cafe Table 4, Rogers sits down with her customers—who have become friends—to talk about food memories. Table 4 explores how food impacts every aspect of our lives. “Foods is politics, food is cultural, food is how you express love, food is about your heritage, it defines who you and who you want to be,” says Rogers. Each week, Rogers invites her guest to reminisce about family suppers and first dates, what they cook, how they eat when performing, the restaurants they choose, and what food they seek when they need comfort. And to punctuate each episode of Table 4, guests such as Ralph Fiennes, Emily Blunt, and Alfonso Cuarón, read their favourite recipe from one of the best-selling River Cafe cookbooks. Table 4 itself, is situated near The River Cafe’s open kitchen, close to the bright pink wood-fired oven and next to the glossy yellow pass, where Ruthie oversees the restaurant. You are invited to take a seat at this intimate table and join the conversation. For more information, recipes, and ingredients, go to https://shoptherivercafe.co.uk/ Web: https://rivercafe.co.uk/ Instagram: www.instagram.com/therivercafelondon/ Facebook: https://en-gb.facebook.com/therivercafelondon/ For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iheartradio app, apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.