September 26, 2024 • 40 mins
In Louisiana, our investigation into Israel Keyes changes forever.
This is a crossover episode with True Crime Garage and Somewhere in the Pines. We recommend listening to all four episodes.
Join the YouTube After Show on Thursday at 9pm Eastern here
This episode was written, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark.
With additional research by: Kim K, Joshua Ash, and Dakota Williams.
This episode featured:
Joshua and Dakota from the Somewhere in the Pines podcast
This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:
www.truecrimebullshit.com / bothand.fyi
For an ad-free experience: www.patreon.com/studiobothand
Music by: William Hellfire, Sero, Chris Haugen, Sergey Cheremisinov, Yehezkel Raz, and Radical Face.
Featured music by: The Be Good Tanyas
Patreon producers: Amelia Hancock, Amy Basil, Annemarie Cash, Annette L, Asch Fish, Becky C, Benjamin Cioppa-Fong, Casey Jensen-Richardson, Christina Sisson, Dale Akstin, Drew Vipond, Heather Horton-Whedon, Jillian Natale, Kathleen Studer, Kendall C, Lana Halladay, Lauren F, Lynnlie Tuschoff, Manolis Boukolus, Nicole and Dennis Henry, Nicole Guzman, Pink, SC, Shelly Brewer, Sherri D, Trista, Tuesdi Woodworth, Zack Ignatowicz Warren, Beth McNally, John Comrie, Jordan M, Jordan Taylor, Sara Cee, Shawna Hardin, Spooky Express, and Lydia Fiedler.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/true-crime-bullsh--3588169/support.
This is a crossover episode with True Crime Garage and Somewhere in the Pines. We recommend listening to all four episodes.
Join the YouTube After Show on Thursday at 9pm Eastern here
This episode was written, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark.
With additional research by: Kim K, Joshua Ash, and Dakota Williams.
This episode featured:
Joshua and Dakota from the Somewhere in the Pines podcast
This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:
www.truecrimebullshit.com / bothand.fyi
For an ad-free experience: www.patreon.com/studiobothand
Music by: William Hellfire, Sero, Chris Haugen, Sergey Cheremisinov, Yehezkel Raz, and Radical Face.
Featured music by: The Be Good Tanyas
Patreon producers: Amelia Hancock, Amy Basil, Annemarie Cash, Annette L, Asch Fish, Becky C, Benjamin Cioppa-Fong, Casey Jensen-Richardson, Christina Sisson, Dale Akstin, Drew Vipond, Heather Horton-Whedon, Jillian Natale, Kathleen Studer, Kendall C, Lana Halladay, Lauren F, Lynnlie Tuschoff, Manolis Boukolus, Nicole and Dennis Henry, Nicole Guzman, Pink, SC, Shelly Brewer, Sherri D, Trista, Tuesdi Woodworth, Zack Ignatowicz Warren, Beth McNally, John Comrie, Jordan M, Jordan Taylor, Sara Cee, Shawna Hardin, Spooky Express, and Lydia Fiedler.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/true-crime-bullsh--3588169/support.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Join me and the researchers Thursday after the show at
nine pm Eastern on YouTube for a live stream discussion
about the episode. You can find the link to the
live stream in the show notes. This is a studio
(00:22):
both and production. Next up, I have Louisiana. We found
this guy commented on a video about keys and his
(00:42):
original comment was I think three years ago, and he said,
Israel keys hit a kil kit here in New Orleans.
If you google Bonnet Car Spillway, that's where. Once they
found out about kill kits, they went back and found
a fire or a home deeper five gallon bucket with
a lid on it. They opened it, found three knives,
(01:04):
a knife, sharpener, rope, duct tape, six feet of chain
with a lock, a small bottle of whiskey, two bottles
of water, a cigar and lighter, and a pack of
razor blades. They reported it to the police. The police
took photos and inventoried the bucket.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Yeah, just being able to confirm that, for one the
a bucket was found and that this guy's claim of
the contents of the bucket is accurate. I mean that
would speak volumes. I feel like.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
This is true.
Speaker 4 (01:37):
Grime bullshit.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
I'm your host, josh Hallmark, and this is a serialized
story of Israel Keys. In twenty twenty three, Kim k
started compiling a list of potential keys caches she had
(02:01):
found online various people from all over the country who
believed that they had come across keys, cashes and kill
kits California, Washington, New Hampshire, New York, Louisiana, and on
and on. And when Joshua and Dakota from somewhere in
the Pines and I finally signed a contract, it was
(02:21):
one of the many things I was eager to share
with them. Two of those potential caches, in particular New
Hampshire and Louisiana. As you may recall, we had discussed
two different sightings of keys with a potential cash in
the same area of the White Mountains of New Hampshire.
During episode nine of this season. Kim had come across
(02:43):
one of those, and I had been contacted about a second. Joshua,
Dakota and I discussed that potential cash at length. But
what you didn't hear was our second discussion on that call,
our discussion about the potential Louisiana cash. Next up, I
have Louisiana. And this is another one and it's hard
(03:05):
to say because it's kind of too perfect. We found
this guy commented on a video about keys and his
original comment was, I think three years ago, and he said,
Israel keys hit a keel kit here in New Orleans,
Actually not really New Orleans, in Laplace, Louisiana, just thirty
(03:27):
minutes outside the city. If you google Bonnet Car spillway,
that's where we were in the spillway riding dirt bikes.
One day, the guy shows up and pulled up in
a Chrysler Town and Country and said that he and
his family were there on vacation from Alaska, but he
wasn't with his family, he was by himself. He asked
him questions about the spillway, what it was, how often
(03:49):
it was used, and then they never really saw him
again until about a month later when he was on
the news because he was arrested in Alaska for murder.
Once they found out about kill kits, they went back
and found a home depot five gallon bucket with a
lid on it. They opened it found three knives, a knife, sharpener, rope,
(04:12):
duct tape, six feet of chain with a lock, a
small bottle of whiskey, two bottles of water, a cigar
and lighter, and a pack of razor blades. They reported
it to the police. The police took photos and inventoried
the bucket. They scavenged the area and found a dead
rabbit and said that that was likely. Oh yeah, I guess.
(04:34):
They said that they smelled death, and the police attributed
it to the rabbit. When the guys called back to
mention Keys, they were told that the New Orleans PD
was too busy and shorthanded to chase ghosts. Yeah, he
said it was partially buried. About three to four inches
were sticking up above ground, but those had been covered
(04:59):
with a trashed deep freezer and then some other trash
and garbage, and they said it would have been late
February or early March of twenty twelve. The guy said
that he usually goes there for his birthday to do
dirt biking, and his birthday is March ninth. And he
(05:21):
swears that when he saw them on the news for
the arrest, it was the same month or within thirty
days of his encounter with Keys. So again it's like perfect.
And he started posting this only three years ago, so
could be bullshit. But also if he was trying to
(05:42):
bullshit people like and wanted it was fifteen minutes, why
bury it in a bunch of comments.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
So right, yeah, Well, and also if he says, you know,
there's a you know, interaction with law enforcement, there would
be a way to you know, validate his claim exactly.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
So right now, we're going to have Jordan for uh
New Orleans PD to see if there's any record of
this report or this encounter.
Speaker 5 (06:12):
Okay, So I have a really strong opinion on this one.
Right away. We have a firm belief that he did
have markers for his cashes, and that the marker would
be trash. M hm arm. You know, that's one of
the things Like I wasn't really prepared to talk about this,
(06:35):
so I'm not one hundred percent sure how to how
to say this. But you know, there are a few
few instances throughout the interviews and throughout the case file
where he talks about using trash, you know, like nobody
likes to pick pick up trash whatever. But there's one
quote that he says when he talks about going back,
he did says he never goes back to look at
his cashes and then instantly he says, well, he does,
(06:56):
but it's only just to see if they're still there.
So there has to be some sort of marker. It
can't just be buried in the ground in the middle
of nowhere where if you went back ten years later.
There has to be something of substantial, you know, signs
or something that like a rock or something like that,
but definitely feel And then if you look at like
the Eagle River Road, the cash there, his plan for
(07:21):
that victim was to bury them in the in the
ditch and then cover them with the dirt and then
put a big piece of sheet metal over top of them,
so them are being dug up and something that you know,
all these spots along the road, like every every place
that we go to along the road is just filled
with trash. You know, it's even even out here in
(07:43):
the Pacific Northwest, it's still you know, there's trash everywhere.
So if he if I heard you right, and he's
saying it was buried in a bunch of trash, then yeah,
that that definitely stands out. And it makes sense too
because this is this the same time period that he
becoming back from the cruise.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Yeah, it's either the cruise or his second trip if
this is true, Like, I just don't think the second
trip there's enough time, but for sure the cruise trip.
And it could even be when his kid is when
he you know, dished his kid with his mom for
four days and disappeared.
Speaker 5 (08:21):
Right, Well, yeah, that's I was thinking it might be
during the cruise time because then he wouldn't have any
guns with him at that point, right, Yeah, So he
could be just getting a bucket prepped and putting what
items he does have in there and coming back and
having planning to bring guns back later because the other
trip he was out trying to bury guns, right the
(08:42):
second the second trip.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
No, that's the first trip too. So there's the like
pre cruise portion, which is where it's just him and
his kid for I think three days. Then they meet
Kim and New Orleans, take the cruise, he comes back,
they part ways, and then he drops his kid off
with his mom for four days and disappears again, and
that's when he does the robbery in the fire.
Speaker 5 (09:04):
Yeah, that sounds super interesting. I hope that you guys
can make contact with him and actually get a police report,
because that would be that would be massive.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Yeah, just being able to confirm that, for one the
a bucket was found and that this guy's claim of
the contents of the bucket is accurate. I mean that
would speak volumes. I feel like.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
Yeah, so yeah, I'll keep you up to speed on that.
The last one is we've actually gotten in touch with
this guy. He is very cagy, so he had posted
I think one of the kim k found this story
on October thirteenth of twenty twenty three. I've since been
(09:49):
in contact with the man who wishes to remain anonymous,
but here are the details of his experience. He first
publicly posted about his encounter in twenty twenty one, nine
years after. He believes he met keys in the Bonnet
Car Spillway in Laplace, Louisiana, a small town about twenty
five miles west of New Orleans in the Wetlands, located
(10:12):
between Lake Pontetrain and the Mississippi River. He believes the
encounter happened in early March or late February of twenty twelve,
which we'll get into in a few minutes. He and
his friends had been out dirt biking in the spillway
for his birthday and were packing up their bikes when
they encountered the man he believes to be keys. The
(10:33):
man drove right up to them in a Chrysler Town
and Country and said that he was visiting with his
family from Alaska, and he started asking them questions about
the spillway, what it was, how often it was used,
et cetera. And then they parted ways. He drove off
and they never saw him again, well, not in person, anyway.
(10:57):
Later that night, he and his friends were chatting about
how odd this encounter was in hindsight. The man said
he was visiting with his family but was alone, and
the spillway isn't a place that tourists would generally be.
Laplace isn't even really a place tourists would generally be.
The whole encounter just felt really off to all of them. Then,
(11:21):
not long after, he believes, possibly even within the week
of the encounter, he saw the guy on the news.
He'd been arrested in Alaska for murder, and so he
and his friend started wondering if perhaps he had murdered
someone while in Louisiana and buried them somewhere in the spillway.
(11:43):
They called the local police, but the police didn't believe
the man was Israel keys, likely because at that point
there was nothing public tying keys to Louisiana. Not long after,
he and his friends returned to the Spillway to ride
their dirty bikes, and in the same area where they
encountered this man, they found a five gallon home depot
(12:07):
bucket partially buried and concealed under trash, pieces of plywood,
and an abandoned deep freezer, and when they got up
the nerve to finally open the bucket. Inside it, they
found three knives, a knife, sharpener, rope, duct tape, eight
feet of chain with a lock, a small bottle of whiskey,
(12:30):
two bottles of water, a cigar and lighter, and a
pack of razor blades. After finding the bucket, they continued
exploring the area and came across what he referred to
as the stench of a dead body, so he and
his friends called the local police again. This time, the
police came out, met them at the scene, interviewed them,
(12:53):
took photos of the bucket and its contents, inventoried and
seized the bucket, then patrolled surrounding area, and while searching
that area, they came across a dead rabbit and decided
that that was likely the cause of the odor, and
so they packed up, took the bucket, and left. But
(13:18):
the guy and his friends still had a bad feeling
about it, so they called the New Orleans PD and
asked them to search for the dates surrounding their encounter
to see if any locals had gone missing, and that's
when they said the charming line about being too busy
to chase ghosts. Several days later, they reported the incident
(13:38):
to Saint John's Police and re reported it to New
Orleans Police. They never heard back from either, and in
fact hadn't heard anything in the following nine years until
he heard from me this past March. When I shared
this information with Dakota and Joshua, they were getting ready
(14:00):
to travel to Washington State to meet with Ted Halla,
so I passed along this info along with some other
questions I had and waited and waited.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Hello, hey, hey, sorry about that?
Speaker 1 (14:21):
Yeah, no words.
Speaker 5 (14:23):
How's it going? It's okay?
Speaker 1 (14:25):
How are you guys?
Speaker 2 (14:27):
I'm doing all right good?
Speaker 5 (14:29):
Yeah? Do you how much time do you have? Just
so we've got an idea of what to try to cover.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
I probably like forty five minutes.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
Okay, So we'll be we'll be quick.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
Okay, awesome.
Speaker 5 (14:44):
So six six months of working together we found cash.
So what with with your help do what?
Speaker 6 (14:56):
So?
Speaker 5 (14:57):
Yeah? Man, it was absolutely insane. The Louisiana cash. Yeah,
is a real cash? Yeah yeah, so yeah, that cash
that was the one that you told us about that
was covered in trash and that was like really stood
out to us because that's something that we think is
really important. That's one of his markers. Yeah, we just
(15:18):
we just submitted a bunch of questions on all the
different caches that we thought could be potentially there could
be a possibility, and that was one of them. And
that's he asked right away if we can send more
information about that, and that's why, you know, we asked
you to to send this still link and everything. And
when we got there, about halfway through the conversation, he
(15:41):
basically broke out this map and it's a map that
they pulled from Israel's computer. It's a map of Louisiana,
a map of like New Orleans and the place, and
there's a cash. Sorry, there's a pinpoint right in the
spot where the person described.
Speaker 7 (15:58):
Wow, and.
Speaker 5 (16:01):
He didn't have enough time to contact law enforcement in Louisiana,
and I think he's going to contact you to try
to get a hold of that person as well. But yeah,
he like, oh my god. Yeah, he was so excited,
and we were so excited. That's why I've been texting
you so much. We'd saying we need to meet up
(16:22):
and chat because it's just, yeah, it's crazy. Basically, he
thinks that it's real. He's going to contact law enforcement
and see if they still have it, see if they
have photos of it, and try to find the exact location.
He's going to contact the person that submitted the tip
same thing, see if they have photos of it, if
they can give a better description of the contents.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
Immediately, I think that special legend Halla. As soon as
you heard about that, we actually sent him like a
mapped out picture of where we thought it was, and
the map that he took out from Keys's computer was
like identical to the map that we sent him almost
it was like the exact area you know that we
sent and so the maps were almost identical.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
Wow, that's fucking wild.
Speaker 5 (17:09):
Yeah, dude, nice fucking work.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
Well you too.
Speaker 5 (17:14):
Yeah, it's insane, and we you know, we think there's
a possibility to get a few more connected as well.
So just take a little communication, I think between your
team and our team to kind of narrow down a
few things. And yeah, it definitely seems like their possibility is.
Speaker 8 (17:30):
Here's the deal you have. I know what you have
because I know you have the computer, right and I've
got maps. I mean, I mean, I'm not I'm never
gonna bluff you. Israel, Okay, I've got maps that I know.
Come up with a bunch of other states. Okay, I've
got Washington, Texas, Utah, I've got I could list them
out for it. I like, I say, I know what's
(17:53):
on that computer.
Speaker 5 (17:54):
I know what you have.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
Now, there's obviously a lot to discuss here, so let's
start with the location of the cache, the Bonnet Car
Spillway in Laplace, Louisiana. The spillway is a stretch of
land approximately two miles wide by six miles long between
the Mississippi and Lake Pontratrain. It serves as a floodwater bypass,
(18:25):
allowing floodwaters from the river to flow into the lake
instead of the surrounding towns and cities. When Keys was there,
the spillway hadn't been opened for four years, and in
the preceding eighty years had only been opened ten times.
Since then, however, it's been opened more frequently. They've opened
(18:46):
it five times in the last decade, and while the
spillway's primary use is floodwater bypassing, it is most often
used as a recreation area. It houses bike trails, quad trails,
fishing ponds, bird watching parks, a remote control flying club,
designated hunting areas, and several boat ramps. In addition to recreation,
(19:14):
it's home to two historic cemeteries, the Kugler and Kenner Cemeteries,
and whenever the spillway gates are opened, those two cemeteries flood.
The cemeteries date back to the eighteen hundreds and house
the remains of former slaves. They were discovered forty years
after the spillway was created, and throughout the years and
(19:36):
occasional flooding of those cemeteries, various artifacts have been recovered,
including coffins, cultural remains, grave markers, and human remains. In
many ways, it's similar to Lake Ozette in Washington State,
where keys spent a lot of time camping and boating,
which sits atop an old burial ground. If decas imposed,
(20:00):
human remains were found in either area, they'd likely be
written off as remnants of the burial grounds. Within our
areas of interest area surrounding the ATV Recreation Area parking
lot and a mountain bike trail, there is a boat
ramp and a clear cut area for power lines to
pass through, just like at Eagle River, Blake Falls Reservoir,
(20:24):
and Wanooski. As of yet, we don't know the exact
location the guy's encountered keys, but based on his description,
it seems it was most likely at or near the
ATV Recreation Parking Area, which is just southwest of both
the power lines and the boat ramp. The area is
(20:45):
also home to alligators. While we wait for ted Halla
to hopefully provide us more information on the exact location
of the cache, I've been trying to sort out when
exaus exactly this encounter occurred, and when exactly Keys buried
the cash, and whether it was the same time or
(21:07):
on two different days. The timing could have great implications
and could prove critical and understanding the timelines surrounding the
disappearances of both Jimmy Tidwell and Mark Julian Oldberry. According
to the tipster, he believes the encounter most likely took
(21:28):
place in early March or late February. He said that
he and his friends went out riding for his birthday
every year, almost daily in the weeks leading up to
his birthday on March nineteen, and he knows that they
were out riding their bikes that year since the beginning
of March, but it could have been as early as
late February. He said that generally they don't ride in
(21:51):
February because it's too cold and muddy. He also said
that he was pretty sure that he found out about
Keyes's arrest in the same month that they met him,
possibly even the same week. Keys was arrested on March thirteenth.
We know Keys was in the area twice that year,
once in February and again in March. We can place
(22:14):
keys in New Orleans from February fifth to the sixth,
and in Lafayette, Louisiana, two hours away, from February second
until the fifth. According to Agent Halla, the FBI can
place keys at the New Orleans Walmart on Chopatulas Street
on February third. We don't have a time stamped for
that transaction, nor would he bought, but have submitted those
(22:37):
questions among approximately fifty others to ted Halla for our
upcoming interview. On February sixth, Keys, Sarah, and Kimberly departed
New Orleans for a six day cruise. They returned on
February eleventh and immediately parted ways. Kim met up with
a friend for a road trip, and Keys and Sarah
(22:57):
drove from New Orleans to Heidi's house in Texas. And
that's the last time that Keys can positively be placed
in Louisiana, but there were plenty of other opportunities for
him to be there. Keyes left Heidi's house on the
morning of February fourteenth and disappeared for two days, during
which time Jimmy Tidwell disappeared. On the sixteenth, Keys burned
(23:20):
down the Alito House and robbed the National Bank of
Texas and Nasal. On the seventeenth, at eleven twenty nine
am local time, Keyes went to a Jacksonville, Texas Walmart,
just a forty minute drive from where Jimmy Tidwell disappeared,
to buy a shovel air freshener lube and, in a
separate transaction, a five hundred dollars prepaid Walmart card. That
(23:43):
same night, he and Sarah took a red eye flight
from Houston back to Anchorage. Which should be noted that
somewhere between the robbery on the sixteenth and his flight
on the night of the seventeenth, Keyes separately cashed the
small bills and the big bills from the He claimed
that the small bills are behind a tree at a
(24:03):
rest stop near the airport. The FBI indicates that, based
on phone pings, the larger bills must be cached somewhere
further east of Highway fifty nine. When they say this
to Keys, he refuses to respond. Keyes returned to East
Texas on March eighth at ten pm Local time. He
(24:24):
can't be placed anywhere for the majority of March ninth.
At two twenty three am local time. On the tenth,
Keys uses Samantha Konig's debit card to withdraw money from
an ATM in Humble, Texas, one hundred miles south southwest
from his hotel in Lufkin, but less than one mile
from the Houston GWB airport. We can't place Keys anywhere
(24:47):
again on the tenth until two forty two pm, when
he goes to a home depot in Lufkin and buys
a water heater element. According to both him and Heidi,
this was to fix Heide's water heater. The eleventh was
his sister's wedding in Wells. Following the wedding, at two
forty seven a m. On the twelfth, Keyes used Samantha's
debit card again to withdraw money from an ATM in Shepherd, Texas,
(25:11):
sixty two miles southwest of Lufkin. A little over an
hour later, he goes to a Walmart in Lufkin to
buy a sandwich and a bag of talkies. Disgusting, he
can't be placed anywhere again until nine thirty six that night,
when he returned to the same walmart to buy beer
and wine, and then the next day, Keys was arrested
(25:33):
just before noon. Essentially other than when he can actually
be placed in the state of Louisiana, which is in
early February, the only plausible occasions he could have made
at back there were February fourteenth through the seventeenth, March ninth,
or March twelfth, But each of these periods of time
(25:54):
raise a lot of questions, particularly in conjunction with the
details surrounding laplace encounter. Let's start with the home depot
bucket itself. At some point while in Texas or Louisiana,
(26:15):
Keys had to buy a home depot bucket to bury
in the spillway. He's obviously not traveling with it by
air as far as we know, which is by no
means definitive. Keys went to home depot on February third
in New Orleans and on March tenth in Lufkin. Per
the FBI files, all he bought during that second Walmart
(26:37):
trip was the water heater element. So there's either another
home depot trip that we don't know about, or he
bought the bucket on February third, which begs some obvious questions. One,
if he bought the bucket on the third, does that
mean he buried the cash on or around the third
as well?
Speaker 5 (26:57):
Two?
Speaker 1 (26:58):
If he did bury it on or around the third,
does that mean the Laplace guy is off on his dates?
Or Three? Was the Laplace encounter not Keys burying the cash,
but Keys returning to a cash that he'd already buried.
If the encounter occurred at some point between February thirteenth
(27:20):
and the sixteenth, while Keys was stuck in the mud,
it would still be earlier than the Laplace Guy recalls,
but there would be ample time for Keys to drive
to Laplace and back. March ninth or twelfth would coincide
exactly with how Laplace Guy remembers the encounter a week
before his birthday, within the month that Keys was arrested,
(27:44):
and Keys would have plenty of time on both days
to make the trek to Laplace and back. I'm inclined
to believe that Keys buried the cash on or around
February third and return to it on either March ninth
or twelfth, at which point he encountered the dirt bikers.
But then we have to ask some tough questions. Where
(28:06):
was Sarah When Keys is at the New Orleans Walmart
on the third, He's supposed to be at a hotel
two hours away in Lafayette with Sarah. And if he's
then burying that bucket in Laplace, where's Sarah while he's
doing it. There's a few lines of thinking here. The
(28:27):
first is that Sarah was never in Lafayette, that Keys
dropped her off with family en route to Lafayette. This
could explain the Christina Siding invitor, any possible connection between
Keys and Mark Oldberry and the Walmart in New Orleans
impossible subsequent cash trip to Laplace, but the mileage on
(28:49):
Keys's rental car makes this very challenging. There was not
enough mileage on Keysa's rental car for him to drop
Sarah off, drive to New Orleans and Laplace, and then
return to Grand Prairie or Wells to pick Sarah up,
then drive back to New Orleans for the cruise. In
addition to going everywhere, we can one hundred percent place
(29:11):
him on that trip, and all of that excludes any
mileage he could have incurred if he was involved in
either Tidwell's disappearance or either of the vider Texas incidents,
let alone both. The second line of thinking is that
Sarah is with Keys and Lafayette, that she goes with
him to Walmart, but that Keyes buries the cash once
(29:33):
Kimberly arrives in New Orleans. He leaves Sarah with Kimberly
for a few hours while he heads out to Laplace
to bury the cash. But as far as we can
tell from Kim's interviews, Keyes didn't disappear for any extended
period of time following Kim's arrival in Louisiana. So where
does that leave us. Well, there's a third option. According
(29:58):
to Laplace Guy, Keys was driving a Chrysler town in
Country when they encountered him at the Spillway. On his
February trip, Keys had a Kia Suv and on his
March trip he had afford Focused Sedan. Neither of these
vehicles even remotely resemble a Chrysler minivan. If Keys carjacked
(30:22):
someone or stole a car on either trip, mileage becomes irrelevant,
and Keys is only restricted by time, which he had
plenty of. Identifying this cash, the first cash ever identified
(30:44):
since Keys died by suicide, the only cash ever identified
without the help of Keys, has been overwhelming. It's both
incredibly exciting and deeply daunting. It is both inspiring and humbling.
How we got here is not lost on me. It
(31:06):
took joining forces with Kim Kay, and then with Josh
and Dakota, and then them getting a meeting with Ted Halla.
It was an assortment of very different people with very
different skill sets, all finding each other at precisely the
right times, all learning to trust one another, and all
(31:31):
willing to put their egos aside. And it took so
much patience, patience with each other patience with the process
and just general patients. Kim k found that Laplace story
a year ago. It's amazing to think of all the
(31:52):
things we found over the years that could reveal themselves
important at any time years and years later. Hawk Mountain, ARETHUSA, Falls,
secret online activity, sightings in Vermont, sightings in California, sightings
all over the damn Place, and on and on. So
(32:13):
much of the work we've done has a way of
coming full circle at just the right time, taking us
all by surprise. As an example, we filed Foyer requests
for the Mark Julian Oldberry case files two separate times
over four years ago, and just as this cash and
(32:34):
Laplace was identified and we began re evaluating Keyes's Texas
and Louisiana timelines, the Mark Oldberry files came through. I've
always said that any one new revelation in the Keys
(32:57):
case could provide new information that would likely lead to
other new revelations in the Keys case. All it would
take is one small find for the dominoes to start falling.
Finding or identifying a cash could lead to a better
understanding of the maps found on his computer, a better
(33:20):
understanding of how, when, and what he cashed the better
understanding of his timeline, and any one of those things
could lead us to new crimes, new victims. Like I said,
the door we just opened has led us to a
room full of new doors to open. We've crossed the rubicon.
(33:43):
There's no turning back, and keys is quickly running out
of places to hide things that I did.
Speaker 9 (33:55):
They're all in my head sort, you know.
Speaker 6 (33:58):
And as far as being on press said, it's that's
not really true either, because the reality is.
Speaker 8 (34:03):
Unless I'm fairly.
Speaker 1 (34:05):
Closely involved, I'm not even gonna be able to find.
Speaker 8 (34:12):
Oh yeah, I mean unprecedented that we being you.
Speaker 7 (34:14):
Know, it was on one fine much more.
Speaker 4 (34:20):
Not bid New Orleans dude, and I was on the
road to jacks On Town, my parties to n New.
Speaker 7 (34:35):
I cursed my her own money, no credicala which filled
my heart with longs for the legs upon drink.
Speaker 9 (34:56):
I sat on, brought.
Speaker 7 (34:58):
All like.
Speaker 9 (35:01):
Beneath the Marnin.
Speaker 10 (35:03):
Sun, and I'm Widl's telling me none, Well, I'm not leamy,
don be.
Speaker 11 (35:15):
All strange.
Speaker 10 (35:16):
Just the nos do.
Speaker 11 (35:19):
To the dark girl wars me came and I'm feeling
love with the creole on like hot rain.
Speaker 6 (35:36):
I've set my pretty creole girl, my mony hairs, no
good getting more fun.
Speaker 7 (35:46):
Ye o, games, I would see about it. N You're
welcome here, con Stranger.
Speaker 3 (35:59):
I have Terry Pie, naver.
Speaker 6 (36:04):
Sa Steine Jarl Alman likes po Shine.
Speaker 1 (36:12):
This episode was written, researched, edited, and produced by me
josh Hallmark, with additional research by Kim k Joshua Ash,
and Dakota Williams. This episode featured Joshua and Dakota from
the Somewhere in the Pines podcast. This episode was made
possible by the following Patreon producers Amelia Hancock, Amy Basel
and Marie Cash, Annette El Ash, Fish, Becky c Benjamin,
(36:34):
Choppa Fon, Casey Jensen, Richardson, Christina Sissoon, Dale Axton, Drew Vipond,
Heather Horton, Whedon, Gillian Natale, Kathleen Stuter, Kendall, c Lona Holiday,
Lauren f Linley, tuscoff Manolas Bullacus, Nicole and Dennis Henry,
Nicole Gooseman, Pink sc Shelley, Brewers, Sherry d Trista, Tuesday Woodworth,
zach Ig Nottowitz, Warren, Beth McNally, John Comrie, Jordan m
(36:57):
Jordan Taylor Sarah C, Shauna Harden, Spook Express, and Lydia Fiedler.
Thank you to Studio Both. Anne's newest Patreon supporters Alexandra H.
Stacy Z, Dorothy c, Amanda, b Abby N, Adrian C. Pinchey,
Johnny Patrick B Sarah, Jillian L, Troy M, Kathy N,
Rachel t Arian, B Kat m claire and Tim G.
(37:19):
To support the investigation, go to Patreon dot com slash
Studio both And. This episode included music by William Hellfire,
Sarge Cheramis and Seroh Chris Hogan Fields of Ohio. It
has calres and radical Face with featured music by the
b Good tanyas.
Speaker 3 (37:38):
Likes she sug me out srmmas house and she ry well.
Speaker 9 (37:54):
Coer salder l Jack blacking snow to try to paint
her beauty.
Speaker 3 (38:07):
I'm sure would be thank so handsome was by.
Speaker 7 (38:14):
Creat girl on the likes O tra.
Speaker 9 (38:23):
Als her would she do anything? And she said in
the wood.
Speaker 7 (38:32):
She had got a long he was off that city.
Speaker 9 (38:41):
She said that she up made for him, and by
for she made wait up for her say the likes
O tra so boy you well, my ban girl, I'll
(39:41):
never see no more. I won't get your kind, say
enough cottage by short.
Speaker 10 (39:54):
I out breath so short, God, oh got out. Drink now,
Drink our health into the crea.
Speaker 7 (40:07):
Of un likes.
Speaker 1 (40:09):
A lot to drink
Join me and the researchers Thursday after the show at
nine pm Eastern on YouTube for a live stream discussion
about the episode. You can find the link to the
live stream in the show notes. This is a studio
(00:22):
both and production. Next up, I have Louisiana. We found
this guy commented on a video about keys and his
(00:42):
original comment was I think three years ago, and he said,
Israel keys hit a kil kit here in New Orleans.
If you google Bonnet Car Spillway, that's where. Once they
found out about kill kits, they went back and found
a fire or a home deeper five gallon bucket with
a lid on it. They opened it, found three knives,
(01:04):
a knife, sharpener, rope, duct tape, six feet of chain
with a lock, a small bottle of whiskey, two bottles
of water, a cigar and lighter, and a pack of
razor blades. They reported it to the police. The police
took photos and inventoried the bucket.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Yeah, just being able to confirm that, for one the
a bucket was found and that this guy's claim of
the contents of the bucket is accurate. I mean that
would speak volumes. I feel like.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
This is true.
Speaker 4 (01:37):
Grime bullshit.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
I'm your host, josh Hallmark, and this is a serialized
story of Israel Keys. In twenty twenty three, Kim k
started compiling a list of potential keys caches she had
(02:01):
found online various people from all over the country who
believed that they had come across keys, cashes and kill
kits California, Washington, New Hampshire, New York, Louisiana, and on
and on. And when Joshua and Dakota from somewhere in
the Pines and I finally signed a contract, it was
(02:21):
one of the many things I was eager to share
with them. Two of those potential caches, in particular New
Hampshire and Louisiana. As you may recall, we had discussed
two different sightings of keys with a potential cash in
the same area of the White Mountains of New Hampshire.
During episode nine of this season. Kim had come across
(02:43):
one of those, and I had been contacted about a second. Joshua,
Dakota and I discussed that potential cash at length. But
what you didn't hear was our second discussion on that call,
our discussion about the potential Louisiana cash. Next up, I
have Louisiana. And this is another one and it's hard
(03:05):
to say because it's kind of too perfect. We found
this guy commented on a video about keys and his
original comment was, I think three years ago, and he said,
Israel keys hit a keel kit here in New Orleans,
Actually not really New Orleans, in Laplace, Louisiana, just thirty
(03:27):
minutes outside the city. If you google Bonnet Car spillway,
that's where we were in the spillway riding dirt bikes.
One day, the guy shows up and pulled up in
a Chrysler Town and Country and said that he and
his family were there on vacation from Alaska, but he
wasn't with his family, he was by himself. He asked
him questions about the spillway, what it was, how often
(03:49):
it was used, and then they never really saw him
again until about a month later when he was on
the news because he was arrested in Alaska for murder.
Once they found out about kill kits, they went back
and found a home depot five gallon bucket with a
lid on it. They opened it found three knives, a knife, sharpener, rope,
(04:12):
duct tape, six feet of chain with a lock, a
small bottle of whiskey, two bottles of water, a cigar
and lighter, and a pack of razor blades. They reported
it to the police. The police took photos and inventoried
the bucket. They scavenged the area and found a dead
rabbit and said that that was likely. Oh yeah, I guess.
(04:34):
They said that they smelled death, and the police attributed
it to the rabbit. When the guys called back to
mention Keys, they were told that the New Orleans PD
was too busy and shorthanded to chase ghosts. Yeah, he
said it was partially buried. About three to four inches
were sticking up above ground, but those had been covered
(04:59):
with a trashed deep freezer and then some other trash
and garbage, and they said it would have been late
February or early March of twenty twelve. The guy said
that he usually goes there for his birthday to do
dirt biking, and his birthday is March ninth. And he
(05:21):
swears that when he saw them on the news for
the arrest, it was the same month or within thirty
days of his encounter with Keys. So again it's like perfect.
And he started posting this only three years ago, so
could be bullshit. But also if he was trying to
(05:42):
bullshit people like and wanted it was fifteen minutes, why
bury it in a bunch of comments.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
So right, yeah, Well, and also if he says, you know,
there's a you know, interaction with law enforcement, there would
be a way to you know, validate his claim exactly.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
So right now, we're going to have Jordan for uh
New Orleans PD to see if there's any record of
this report or this encounter.
Speaker 5 (06:12):
Okay, So I have a really strong opinion on this one.
Right away. We have a firm belief that he did
have markers for his cashes, and that the marker would
be trash. M hm arm. You know, that's one of
the things Like I wasn't really prepared to talk about this,
(06:35):
so I'm not one hundred percent sure how to how
to say this. But you know, there are a few
few instances throughout the interviews and throughout the case file
where he talks about using trash, you know, like nobody
likes to pick pick up trash whatever. But there's one
quote that he says when he talks about going back,
he did says he never goes back to look at
his cashes and then instantly he says, well, he does,
(06:56):
but it's only just to see if they're still there.
So there has to be some sort of marker. It
can't just be buried in the ground in the middle
of nowhere where if you went back ten years later.
There has to be something of substantial, you know, signs
or something that like a rock or something like that,
but definitely feel And then if you look at like
the Eagle River Road, the cash there, his plan for
(07:21):
that victim was to bury them in the in the
ditch and then cover them with the dirt and then
put a big piece of sheet metal over top of them,
so them are being dug up and something that you know,
all these spots along the road, like every every place
that we go to along the road is just filled
with trash. You know, it's even even out here in
(07:43):
the Pacific Northwest, it's still you know, there's trash everywhere.
So if he if I heard you right, and he's
saying it was buried in a bunch of trash, then yeah,
that that definitely stands out. And it makes sense too
because this is this the same time period that he
becoming back from the cruise.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Yeah, it's either the cruise or his second trip if
this is true, Like, I just don't think the second
trip there's enough time, but for sure the cruise trip.
And it could even be when his kid is when
he you know, dished his kid with his mom for
four days and disappeared.
Speaker 5 (08:21):
Right, Well, yeah, that's I was thinking it might be
during the cruise time because then he wouldn't have any
guns with him at that point, right, Yeah, So he
could be just getting a bucket prepped and putting what
items he does have in there and coming back and
having planning to bring guns back later because the other
trip he was out trying to bury guns, right the
(08:42):
second the second trip.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
No, that's the first trip too. So there's the like
pre cruise portion, which is where it's just him and
his kid for I think three days. Then they meet
Kim and New Orleans, take the cruise, he comes back,
they part ways, and then he drops his kid off
with his mom for four days and disappears again, and
that's when he does the robbery in the fire.
Speaker 5 (09:04):
Yeah, that sounds super interesting. I hope that you guys
can make contact with him and actually get a police report,
because that would be that would be massive.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Yeah, just being able to confirm that, for one the
a bucket was found and that this guy's claim of
the contents of the bucket is accurate. I mean that
would speak volumes. I feel like.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
Yeah, so yeah, I'll keep you up to speed on that.
The last one is we've actually gotten in touch with
this guy. He is very cagy, so he had posted
I think one of the kim k found this story
on October thirteenth of twenty twenty three. I've since been
(09:49):
in contact with the man who wishes to remain anonymous,
but here are the details of his experience. He first
publicly posted about his encounter in twenty twenty one, nine
years after. He believes he met keys in the Bonnet
Car Spillway in Laplace, Louisiana, a small town about twenty
five miles west of New Orleans in the Wetlands, located
(10:12):
between Lake Pontetrain and the Mississippi River. He believes the
encounter happened in early March or late February of twenty twelve,
which we'll get into in a few minutes. He and
his friends had been out dirt biking in the spillway
for his birthday and were packing up their bikes when
they encountered the man he believes to be keys. The
(10:33):
man drove right up to them in a Chrysler Town
and Country and said that he was visiting with his
family from Alaska, and he started asking them questions about
the spillway, what it was, how often it was used,
et cetera. And then they parted ways. He drove off
and they never saw him again, well, not in person, anyway.
(10:57):
Later that night, he and his friends were chatting about
how odd this encounter was in hindsight. The man said
he was visiting with his family but was alone, and
the spillway isn't a place that tourists would generally be.
Laplace isn't even really a place tourists would generally be.
The whole encounter just felt really off to all of them. Then,
(11:21):
not long after, he believes, possibly even within the week
of the encounter, he saw the guy on the news.
He'd been arrested in Alaska for murder, and so he
and his friend started wondering if perhaps he had murdered
someone while in Louisiana and buried them somewhere in the spillway.
(11:43):
They called the local police, but the police didn't believe
the man was Israel keys, likely because at that point
there was nothing public tying keys to Louisiana. Not long after,
he and his friends returned to the Spillway to ride
their dirty bikes, and in the same area where they
encountered this man, they found a five gallon home depot
(12:07):
bucket partially buried and concealed under trash, pieces of plywood,
and an abandoned deep freezer, and when they got up
the nerve to finally open the bucket. Inside it, they
found three knives, a knife, sharpener, rope, duct tape, eight
feet of chain with a lock, a small bottle of whiskey,
(12:30):
two bottles of water, a cigar and lighter, and a
pack of razor blades. After finding the bucket, they continued
exploring the area and came across what he referred to
as the stench of a dead body, so he and
his friends called the local police again. This time, the
police came out, met them at the scene, interviewed them,
(12:53):
took photos of the bucket and its contents, inventoried and
seized the bucket, then patrolled surrounding area, and while searching
that area, they came across a dead rabbit and decided
that that was likely the cause of the odor, and
so they packed up, took the bucket, and left. But
(13:18):
the guy and his friends still had a bad feeling
about it, so they called the New Orleans PD and
asked them to search for the dates surrounding their encounter
to see if any locals had gone missing, and that's
when they said the charming line about being too busy
to chase ghosts. Several days later, they reported the incident
(13:38):
to Saint John's Police and re reported it to New
Orleans Police. They never heard back from either, and in
fact hadn't heard anything in the following nine years until
he heard from me this past March. When I shared
this information with Dakota and Joshua, they were getting ready
(14:00):
to travel to Washington State to meet with Ted Halla,
so I passed along this info along with some other
questions I had and waited and waited.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Hello, hey, hey, sorry about that?
Speaker 1 (14:21):
Yeah, no words.
Speaker 5 (14:23):
How's it going? It's okay?
Speaker 1 (14:25):
How are you guys?
Speaker 2 (14:27):
I'm doing all right good?
Speaker 5 (14:29):
Yeah? Do you how much time do you have? Just
so we've got an idea of what to try to cover.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
I probably like forty five minutes.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
Okay, So we'll be we'll be quick.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
Okay, awesome.
Speaker 5 (14:44):
So six six months of working together we found cash.
So what with with your help do what?
Speaker 6 (14:56):
So?
Speaker 5 (14:57):
Yeah? Man, it was absolutely insane. The Louisiana cash. Yeah,
is a real cash? Yeah yeah, so yeah, that cash
that was the one that you told us about that
was covered in trash and that was like really stood
out to us because that's something that we think is
really important. That's one of his markers. Yeah, we just
(15:18):
we just submitted a bunch of questions on all the
different caches that we thought could be potentially there could
be a possibility, and that was one of them. And
that's he asked right away if we can send more
information about that, and that's why, you know, we asked
you to to send this still link and everything. And
when we got there, about halfway through the conversation, he
(15:41):
basically broke out this map and it's a map that
they pulled from Israel's computer. It's a map of Louisiana,
a map of like New Orleans and the place, and
there's a cash. Sorry, there's a pinpoint right in the
spot where the person described.
Speaker 7 (15:58):
Wow, and.
Speaker 5 (16:01):
He didn't have enough time to contact law enforcement in Louisiana,
and I think he's going to contact you to try
to get a hold of that person as well. But yeah,
he like, oh my god. Yeah, he was so excited,
and we were so excited. That's why I've been texting
you so much. We'd saying we need to meet up
(16:22):
and chat because it's just, yeah, it's crazy. Basically, he
thinks that it's real. He's going to contact law enforcement
and see if they still have it, see if they
have photos of it, and try to find the exact location.
He's going to contact the person that submitted the tip
same thing, see if they have photos of it, if
they can give a better description of the contents.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
Immediately, I think that special legend Halla. As soon as
you heard about that, we actually sent him like a
mapped out picture of where we thought it was, and
the map that he took out from Keys's computer was
like identical to the map that we sent him almost
it was like the exact area you know that we
sent and so the maps were almost identical.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
Wow, that's fucking wild.
Speaker 5 (17:09):
Yeah, dude, nice fucking work.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
Well you too.
Speaker 5 (17:14):
Yeah, it's insane, and we you know, we think there's
a possibility to get a few more connected as well.
So just take a little communication, I think between your
team and our team to kind of narrow down a
few things. And yeah, it definitely seems like their possibility is.
Speaker 8 (17:30):
Here's the deal you have. I know what you have
because I know you have the computer, right and I've
got maps. I mean, I mean, I'm not I'm never
gonna bluff you. Israel, Okay, I've got maps that I know.
Come up with a bunch of other states. Okay, I've
got Washington, Texas, Utah, I've got I could list them
out for it. I like, I say, I know what's
(17:53):
on that computer.
Speaker 5 (17:54):
I know what you have.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
Now, there's obviously a lot to discuss here, so let's
start with the location of the cache, the Bonnet Car
Spillway in Laplace, Louisiana. The spillway is a stretch of
land approximately two miles wide by six miles long between
the Mississippi and Lake Pontratrain. It serves as a floodwater bypass,
(18:25):
allowing floodwaters from the river to flow into the lake
instead of the surrounding towns and cities. When Keys was there,
the spillway hadn't been opened for four years, and in
the preceding eighty years had only been opened ten times.
Since then, however, it's been opened more frequently. They've opened
(18:46):
it five times in the last decade, and while the
spillway's primary use is floodwater bypassing, it is most often
used as a recreation area. It houses bike trails, quad trails,
fishing ponds, bird watching parks, a remote control flying club,
designated hunting areas, and several boat ramps. In addition to recreation,
(19:14):
it's home to two historic cemeteries, the Kugler and Kenner Cemeteries,
and whenever the spillway gates are opened, those two cemeteries flood.
The cemeteries date back to the eighteen hundreds and house
the remains of former slaves. They were discovered forty years
after the spillway was created, and throughout the years and
(19:36):
occasional flooding of those cemeteries, various artifacts have been recovered,
including coffins, cultural remains, grave markers, and human remains. In
many ways, it's similar to Lake Ozette in Washington State,
where keys spent a lot of time camping and boating,
which sits atop an old burial ground. If decas imposed,
(20:00):
human remains were found in either area, they'd likely be
written off as remnants of the burial grounds. Within our
areas of interest area surrounding the ATV Recreation Area parking
lot and a mountain bike trail, there is a boat
ramp and a clear cut area for power lines to
pass through, just like at Eagle River, Blake Falls Reservoir,
(20:24):
and Wanooski. As of yet, we don't know the exact
location the guy's encountered keys, but based on his description,
it seems it was most likely at or near the
ATV Recreation Parking Area, which is just southwest of both
the power lines and the boat ramp. The area is
(20:45):
also home to alligators. While we wait for ted Halla
to hopefully provide us more information on the exact location
of the cache, I've been trying to sort out when
exaus exactly this encounter occurred, and when exactly Keys buried
the cash, and whether it was the same time or
(21:07):
on two different days. The timing could have great implications
and could prove critical and understanding the timelines surrounding the
disappearances of both Jimmy Tidwell and Mark Julian Oldberry. According
to the tipster, he believes the encounter most likely took
(21:28):
place in early March or late February. He said that
he and his friends went out riding for his birthday
every year, almost daily in the weeks leading up to
his birthday on March nineteen, and he knows that they
were out riding their bikes that year since the beginning
of March, but it could have been as early as
late February. He said that generally they don't ride in
(21:51):
February because it's too cold and muddy. He also said
that he was pretty sure that he found out about
Keyes's arrest in the same month that they met him,
possibly even the same week. Keys was arrested on March thirteenth.
We know Keys was in the area twice that year,
once in February and again in March. We can place
(22:14):
keys in New Orleans from February fifth to the sixth,
and in Lafayette, Louisiana, two hours away, from February second
until the fifth. According to Agent Halla, the FBI can
place keys at the New Orleans Walmart on Chopatulas Street
on February third. We don't have a time stamped for
that transaction, nor would he bought, but have submitted those
(22:37):
questions among approximately fifty others to ted Halla for our
upcoming interview. On February sixth, Keys, Sarah, and Kimberly departed
New Orleans for a six day cruise. They returned on
February eleventh and immediately parted ways. Kim met up with
a friend for a road trip, and Keys and Sarah
(22:57):
drove from New Orleans to Heidi's house in Texas. And
that's the last time that Keys can positively be placed
in Louisiana, but there were plenty of other opportunities for
him to be there. Keyes left Heidi's house on the
morning of February fourteenth and disappeared for two days, during
which time Jimmy Tidwell disappeared. On the sixteenth, Keys burned
(23:20):
down the Alito House and robbed the National Bank of
Texas and Nasal. On the seventeenth, at eleven twenty nine
am local time, Keyes went to a Jacksonville, Texas Walmart,
just a forty minute drive from where Jimmy Tidwell disappeared,
to buy a shovel air freshener lube and, in a
separate transaction, a five hundred dollars prepaid Walmart card. That
(23:43):
same night, he and Sarah took a red eye flight
from Houston back to Anchorage. Which should be noted that
somewhere between the robbery on the sixteenth and his flight
on the night of the seventeenth, Keyes separately cashed the
small bills and the big bills from the He claimed
that the small bills are behind a tree at a
(24:03):
rest stop near the airport. The FBI indicates that, based
on phone pings, the larger bills must be cached somewhere
further east of Highway fifty nine. When they say this
to Keys, he refuses to respond. Keyes returned to East
Texas on March eighth at ten pm Local time. He
(24:24):
can't be placed anywhere for the majority of March ninth.
At two twenty three am local time. On the tenth,
Keys uses Samantha Konig's debit card to withdraw money from
an ATM in Humble, Texas, one hundred miles south southwest
from his hotel in Lufkin, but less than one mile
from the Houston GWB airport. We can't place Keys anywhere
(24:47):
again on the tenth until two forty two pm, when
he goes to a home depot in Lufkin and buys
a water heater element. According to both him and Heidi,
this was to fix Heide's water heater. The eleventh was
his sister's wedding in Wells. Following the wedding, at two
forty seven a m. On the twelfth, Keyes used Samantha's
debit card again to withdraw money from an ATM in Shepherd, Texas,
(25:11):
sixty two miles southwest of Lufkin. A little over an
hour later, he goes to a Walmart in Lufkin to
buy a sandwich and a bag of talkies. Disgusting, he
can't be placed anywhere again until nine thirty six that night,
when he returned to the same walmart to buy beer
and wine, and then the next day, Keys was arrested
(25:33):
just before noon. Essentially other than when he can actually
be placed in the state of Louisiana, which is in
early February, the only plausible occasions he could have made
at back there were February fourteenth through the seventeenth, March ninth,
or March twelfth, But each of these periods of time
(25:54):
raise a lot of questions, particularly in conjunction with the
details surrounding laplace encounter. Let's start with the home depot
bucket itself. At some point while in Texas or Louisiana,
(26:15):
Keys had to buy a home depot bucket to bury
in the spillway. He's obviously not traveling with it by
air as far as we know, which is by no
means definitive. Keys went to home depot on February third
in New Orleans and on March tenth in Lufkin. Per
the FBI files, all he bought during that second Walmart
(26:37):
trip was the water heater element. So there's either another
home depot trip that we don't know about, or he
bought the bucket on February third, which begs some obvious questions. One,
if he bought the bucket on the third, does that
mean he buried the cash on or around the third
as well?
Speaker 5 (26:57):
Two?
Speaker 1 (26:58):
If he did bury it on or around the third,
does that mean the Laplace guy is off on his dates?
Or Three? Was the Laplace encounter not Keys burying the cash,
but Keys returning to a cash that he'd already buried.
If the encounter occurred at some point between February thirteenth
(27:20):
and the sixteenth, while Keys was stuck in the mud,
it would still be earlier than the Laplace Guy recalls,
but there would be ample time for Keys to drive
to Laplace and back. March ninth or twelfth would coincide
exactly with how Laplace Guy remembers the encounter a week
before his birthday, within the month that Keys was arrested,
(27:44):
and Keys would have plenty of time on both days
to make the trek to Laplace and back. I'm inclined
to believe that Keys buried the cash on or around
February third and return to it on either March ninth
or twelfth, at which point he encountered the dirt bikers.
But then we have to ask some tough questions. Where
(28:06):
was Sarah When Keys is at the New Orleans Walmart
on the third, He's supposed to be at a hotel
two hours away in Lafayette with Sarah. And if he's
then burying that bucket in Laplace, where's Sarah while he's
doing it. There's a few lines of thinking here. The
(28:27):
first is that Sarah was never in Lafayette, that Keys
dropped her off with family en route to Lafayette. This
could explain the Christina Siding invitor, any possible connection between
Keys and Mark Oldberry and the Walmart in New Orleans
impossible subsequent cash trip to Laplace, but the mileage on
(28:49):
Keys's rental car makes this very challenging. There was not
enough mileage on Keysa's rental car for him to drop
Sarah off, drive to New Orleans and Laplace, and then
return to Grand Prairie or Wells to pick Sarah up,
then drive back to New Orleans for the cruise. In
addition to going everywhere, we can one hundred percent place
(29:11):
him on that trip, and all of that excludes any
mileage he could have incurred if he was involved in
either Tidwell's disappearance or either of the vider Texas incidents,
let alone both. The second line of thinking is that
Sarah is with Keys and Lafayette, that she goes with
him to Walmart, but that Keyes buries the cash once
(29:33):
Kimberly arrives in New Orleans. He leaves Sarah with Kimberly
for a few hours while he heads out to Laplace
to bury the cash. But as far as we can
tell from Kim's interviews, Keyes didn't disappear for any extended
period of time following Kim's arrival in Louisiana. So where
does that leave us. Well, there's a third option. According
(29:58):
to Laplace Guy, Keys was driving a Chrysler town in
Country when they encountered him at the Spillway. On his
February trip, Keys had a Kia Suv and on his
March trip he had afford Focused Sedan. Neither of these
vehicles even remotely resemble a Chrysler minivan. If Keys carjacked
(30:22):
someone or stole a car on either trip, mileage becomes irrelevant,
and Keys is only restricted by time, which he had
plenty of. Identifying this cash, the first cash ever identified
(30:44):
since Keys died by suicide, the only cash ever identified
without the help of Keys, has been overwhelming. It's both
incredibly exciting and deeply daunting. It is both inspiring and humbling.
How we got here is not lost on me. It
(31:06):
took joining forces with Kim Kay, and then with Josh
and Dakota, and then them getting a meeting with Ted Halla.
It was an assortment of very different people with very
different skill sets, all finding each other at precisely the
right times, all learning to trust one another, and all
(31:31):
willing to put their egos aside. And it took so
much patience, patience with each other patience with the process
and just general patients. Kim k found that Laplace story
a year ago. It's amazing to think of all the
(31:52):
things we found over the years that could reveal themselves
important at any time years and years later. Hawk Mountain, ARETHUSA, Falls,
secret online activity, sightings in Vermont, sightings in California, sightings
all over the damn Place, and on and on. So
(32:13):
much of the work we've done has a way of
coming full circle at just the right time, taking us
all by surprise. As an example, we filed Foyer requests
for the Mark Julian Oldberry case files two separate times
over four years ago, and just as this cash and
(32:34):
Laplace was identified and we began re evaluating Keyes's Texas
and Louisiana timelines, the Mark Oldberry files came through. I've
always said that any one new revelation in the Keys
(32:57):
case could provide new information that would likely lead to
other new revelations in the Keys case. All it would
take is one small find for the dominoes to start falling.
Finding or identifying a cash could lead to a better
understanding of the maps found on his computer, a better
(33:20):
understanding of how, when, and what he cashed the better
understanding of his timeline, and any one of those things
could lead us to new crimes, new victims. Like I said,
the door we just opened has led us to a
room full of new doors to open. We've crossed the rubicon.
(33:43):
There's no turning back, and keys is quickly running out
of places to hide things that I did.
Speaker 9 (33:55):
They're all in my head sort, you know.
Speaker 6 (33:58):
And as far as being on press said, it's that's
not really true either, because the reality is.
Speaker 8 (34:03):
Unless I'm fairly.
Speaker 1 (34:05):
Closely involved, I'm not even gonna be able to find.
Speaker 8 (34:12):
Oh yeah, I mean unprecedented that we being you.
Speaker 7 (34:14):
Know, it was on one fine much more.
Speaker 4 (34:20):
Not bid New Orleans dude, and I was on the
road to jacks On Town, my parties to n New.
Speaker 7 (34:35):
I cursed my her own money, no credicala which filled
my heart with longs for the legs upon drink.
Speaker 9 (34:56):
I sat on, brought.
Speaker 7 (34:58):
All like.
Speaker 9 (35:01):
Beneath the Marnin.
Speaker 10 (35:03):
Sun, and I'm Widl's telling me none, Well, I'm not leamy,
don be.
Speaker 11 (35:15):
All strange.
Speaker 10 (35:16):
Just the nos do.
Speaker 11 (35:19):
To the dark girl wars me came and I'm feeling
love with the creole on like hot rain.
Speaker 6 (35:36):
I've set my pretty creole girl, my mony hairs, no
good getting more fun.
Speaker 7 (35:46):
Ye o, games, I would see about it. N You're
welcome here, con Stranger.
Speaker 3 (35:59):
I have Terry Pie, naver.
Speaker 6 (36:04):
Sa Steine Jarl Alman likes po Shine.
Speaker 1 (36:12):
This episode was written, researched, edited, and produced by me
josh Hallmark, with additional research by Kim k Joshua Ash,
and Dakota Williams. This episode featured Joshua and Dakota from
the Somewhere in the Pines podcast. This episode was made
possible by the following Patreon producers Amelia Hancock, Amy Basel
and Marie Cash, Annette El Ash, Fish, Becky c Benjamin,
(36:34):
Choppa Fon, Casey Jensen, Richardson, Christina Sissoon, Dale Axton, Drew Vipond,
Heather Horton, Whedon, Gillian Natale, Kathleen Stuter, Kendall, c Lona Holiday,
Lauren f Linley, tuscoff Manolas Bullacus, Nicole and Dennis Henry,
Nicole Gooseman, Pink sc Shelley, Brewers, Sherry d Trista, Tuesday Woodworth,
zach Ig Nottowitz, Warren, Beth McNally, John Comrie, Jordan m
(36:57):
Jordan Taylor Sarah C, Shauna Harden, Spook Express, and Lydia Fiedler.
Thank you to Studio Both. Anne's newest Patreon supporters Alexandra H.
Stacy Z, Dorothy c, Amanda, b Abby N, Adrian C. Pinchey,
Johnny Patrick B Sarah, Jillian L, Troy M, Kathy N,
Rachel t Arian, B Kat m claire and Tim G.
(37:19):
To support the investigation, go to Patreon dot com slash
Studio both And. This episode included music by William Hellfire,
Sarge Cheramis and Seroh Chris Hogan Fields of Ohio. It
has calres and radical Face with featured music by the
b Good tanyas.
Speaker 3 (37:38):
Likes she sug me out srmmas house and she ry well.
Speaker 9 (37:54):
Coer salder l Jack blacking snow to try to paint
her beauty.
Speaker 3 (38:07):
I'm sure would be thank so handsome was by.
Speaker 7 (38:14):
Creat girl on the likes O tra.
Speaker 9 (38:23):
Als her would she do anything? And she said in
the wood.
Speaker 7 (38:32):
She had got a long he was off that city.
Speaker 9 (38:41):
She said that she up made for him, and by
for she made wait up for her say the likes
O tra so boy you well, my ban girl, I'll
(39:41):
never see no more. I won't get your kind, say
enough cottage by short.
Speaker 10 (39:54):
I out breath so short, God, oh got out. Drink now,
Drink our health into the crea.
Speaker 7 (40:07):
Of un likes.
Speaker 1 (40:09):
A lot to drink
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