October 31, 2024 • 47 mins
Supplemental files in the Marble Arvidson case take the team on a strange journey. New interviews with Marble's friends shine a light on who he was and where he might have gone on the day he vanished. And that information shines a new light not just on Keyes, but four other disappearances in the area.
This episode was written, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark.
With additional research by: Jordan Taylor and Shana Wilensky.
And research assistance by: Michelle Tooker.
This episode features:
Shana Wilensky and Michelle Tooker.
This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:
www.truecrimebullshit.com / bothand.fyi
For an ad-free experience: www.patreon.com/studiobothand
Music by: William Hellfire, La Bon, and Radical Face.
Featured song: "I Follow Rivers" by: Marika Hackman
Patreon producers: Amelia Hancock, Amy Basil, Annemarie Cash, Annette L, Asch Fish, Becky C, Benjamin Cioppa-Fong, Casey Jensen-Richardson, Christina Sisson, Dale Akstin, Drew Vipond, Heather Horton-Whedon, Jillian Natale, Kathleen Studer, Kendall C, Lana Halladay, Lauren F, Lynnlie Tuschoff, Manolis Boukolus, Nicole and Dennis Henry, Nicole Guzman, Pink, SC, Shelly Brewer, Sherri D, Trista, Tuesdi Woodworth, Zack Ignatowicz Warren, Beth McNally, John Comrie, Jordan M, Jordan Taylor, Michael Beers, Sara Cee, Shawna Hardin, Spooky Express, and Lydia Fiedler.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/true-crime-bullsh--3588169/support.
This episode was written, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark.
With additional research by: Jordan Taylor and Shana Wilensky.
And research assistance by: Michelle Tooker.
This episode features:
Shana Wilensky and Michelle Tooker.
This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:
www.truecrimebullshit.com / bothand.fyi
For an ad-free experience: www.patreon.com/studiobothand
Music by: William Hellfire, La Bon, and Radical Face.
Featured song: "I Follow Rivers" by: Marika Hackman
Patreon producers: Amelia Hancock, Amy Basil, Annemarie Cash, Annette L, Asch Fish, Becky C, Benjamin Cioppa-Fong, Casey Jensen-Richardson, Christina Sisson, Dale Akstin, Drew Vipond, Heather Horton-Whedon, Jillian Natale, Kathleen Studer, Kendall C, Lana Halladay, Lauren F, Lynnlie Tuschoff, Manolis Boukolus, Nicole and Dennis Henry, Nicole Guzman, Pink, SC, Shelly Brewer, Sherri D, Trista, Tuesdi Woodworth, Zack Ignatowicz Warren, Beth McNally, John Comrie, Jordan M, Jordan Taylor, Michael Beers, Sara Cee, Shawna Hardin, Spooky Express, and Lydia Fiedler.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/true-crime-bullsh--3588169/support.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
This is a studio both and production.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Okay, So so something that I really want to make
clear because this has consistently been, in my opinion, a
vast mischaracterization of him. He was not this bad, troubled
kid like I've noticed there's always been this characterization of him,
like he was this like bad, like outcast, like rebel type.
(00:37):
But I mean at least from when I knew him,
because you know, we were only dating for like a
few months before he went missing. Like I think we
started dating in like juneish. But when I knew him,
he was a really really good kid. Like, yeah, he
smoked a lot of weed and he had depression issues,
but he was really respectful of alts. He was always
(01:02):
talking about how you know, he wanted to get really
good grades this year and talking about going to college
and that was like his big dream for our relationship
was like us going to the same college together, and
like he really was looking forward to the future, and
he really was future driven. I think he was really happy,
(01:24):
and I think he was really like looking forward to things,
and he just he just seemed like really optimistic and
happy and he was really happy with our relationship. And
oh another thing too, was he he was working. He
took work seriously. Like he basically just wanted to be
like a good student. He wanted to have a part
(01:47):
time job, he was good at he wanted to be
a good boyfriend. And yeah, and I just wanted to
clear that up because, like, I know, I know, there's
like a narrative that some people stick to that's a
bit out of date that he was like this bad
rebel kit or whatever other than smoking weed. He was
not like that at all.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
This is true crime bullshit.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
I'm your host, Josh Hallmark, and this is a serialized
story of Israel Keys. Over the past few months, we've
received a handful of new files, and Mark Julian Oldberry's
isn't the only case file we've received that shed new
(02:34):
light on a disappearance we've previously covered. In fact, when
we received a supplemental case file on Marble Arbitson's disappearance,
we were hopeful it might take us on a journey
similar to Oldberry, especially because this supplemental file was even
more robust than our original foy file from Brattleboro, PD. Instead,
(02:57):
these new files hit us much differently. Our opinions changed
drastically with each read, there was new evidence, new information,
new leads, even new suspects, and a mountain of things
we got wrong the first time around. For example, the
home Marble was living in Mike and Mickey his foster parents.
(03:20):
They weren't a couple. In fact, they were both men.
Mike was officially Marble's foster dad, Mickey his roommate. Both
Mike and Mickey worked for Families First, the organization that
paired Marble with his foster families and mentors. The third roommate,
Cory Jackson, was twenty three at the time. He had
(03:41):
previously been in the foster care of Mickey, and when
he aged out of the system, became their room mate.
As far as we can tell, Mike and Mickey weren't
a couple, Although it is implied that Mickey was gay,
we haven't been able to verify that yet. Jordan and
I each read the files and then forwarded them to Cat.
She read them, shared her thoughts, and then we called
(04:03):
up the team to discuss the files and share them
with the larger group. The first thing is there are
two other suspects, a pair of brothers, and I ask
Kaz about this because they come up twice in the files,
two different people say that they believe that these brothers
(04:23):
killed Marble. Everyone involved in this version of events are
all part of the community that Marble's mother is in,
which it's called the Retreat. But I think it's like
a facility that they all either work at, or our
mentors at, or our patients at.
Speaker 4 (04:40):
Are they adults, yes, okay.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
The two brothers I think are young adults at the time,
but they're definitely older than Marble as far as I
can tell in the files, there is nothing connecting them
to Marble. They don't seem to know him, they don't
seem to know his mom. They, you know, are very
much on the periphery in the community. In fact, you
(05:06):
can look them up now. They no longer speak to
each other because one brother slept with the other brother's wife.
Since these brothers have not been convicted or ever named
publicly in regards to Marble's disappearance, we're simply going to
refer to them as the brothers in this episode, and
at first read of the supplemental files, their presence felt
(05:28):
significant because there were two different people who were either
told or insinuated to that the brothers murdered Marble in
the woods outside of Brattleboro, Vermont. One version is they
confessed to killing Marble. They took him to the woods
and beat him to death and then buried him. The
other version is some guys saw them leaving the woods
(05:53):
with shovels shortly after Marble disappeared and was under the
impression that they killed Marble, and then he told someone,
who told someone, and so everything is like funneled through
multiple people. And again, while these guys come up in
two different stories, there's nothing actually linking them to Marble.
(06:15):
And I can't tell if they were thoroughly looked into
and that's just redacted from the files, or if just
something came up that the police never thoroughly investigated them,
either because they could be alibied or whatever. But why
they weren't investigated is not included in the files as
far as I can tell.
Speaker 5 (06:33):
What about the motive, Like, what would their motive be?
Speaker 1 (06:37):
No motive is ever declared. I think loosely it's drugs.
And that's the other thing is, like everybody talks about
Marble did Marble was a pothead and he would like
buy drugs from various people. And then one of his
friends makes a comment that the police interpret as Marble
was moving lots of drugs, but I didn't interpret it
that way. I think that they are kind of like
(06:59):
looking for things that could have happened to Marble and
maybe exaggerating his use of drugs as a way to
like make sense of his disappearance. So here's the two
stories involving the brothers. One, a woman who was admittedly
a drug addict, told the police that she heard from
(07:19):
a friend on parole that he saw the brothers leaving
the woods one night following Hurricane Irene, and that they
were carrying shovels and covered in mud. The friend on
parole told this woman that he thought the brothers killed Marble. Two,
that same woman said that her ex friend, who was
(07:40):
also a drug addict, heard that the brothers confessed to
their mother that they beat Marble to death in the
woods one night. The police did end up interviewing that
ex friend, who confirmed that she heard directly from the
brother's mother that they had confessed to killing Marble. Now,
as far as we can tell from the files, neither
the brother nor their mother were ever interviewed, which is
(08:03):
not to say that they weren't they could have been
redacted from the files, or the police could have investigated
these stories and found that they weren't credible, true, or possible.
But what we do know is that the brothers remain
free today and never come up in the files again.
And there is nothing in the files or online ever
(08:23):
linking the brothers to Marble, his mother, or any of
Marble's friends. There's nothing to account for them even like
being together, let alone a motive for them to kill him.
Speaker 4 (08:35):
Yeah, Like, why would they just kill him?
Speaker 6 (08:36):
It doesn't make any sense. It's weird. And then they
didn't even know his mother, Yeah.
Speaker 7 (08:41):
Because I thought you were going to tell us that
they knew his mom, and then she had some kind
of debt to them and they decided, you know, something
went wrong with that scenario.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
But now, and like, these people from what I can
tell and even some of the stories I've read about
them in the files and elsewhere, like they are not
criminal masters by any sense of the word.
Speaker 6 (09:02):
Yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
I never got that from Kai either.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Yeah. The Kai thing is interesting because they you know,
he continues to be on their radar, but they have
a not ironclad alibi, but they have a pretty good
alibi for him.
Speaker 8 (09:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
The files also include more information on Kai Freeman, who
you may recall was Marble's girlfriend, Mahala's ex boyfriend. Kai
and Marble had an acquaintanceship, and there was speculation that
perhaps Marble bought weed from Kai. There were lots of
rumors that Kai had possibly killed Marble out of jealousy
(09:40):
over his relationship with Mahala. Several years after Marble went missing,
Kai was found guilty of trading weed with miners in
exchange for sex and has been in prison ever since.
So the most recent update in the files is twenty
twenty two. And I've noticed that since this came o out,
which I think was like closer to Marble's disappearance, they've
(10:05):
continued to look more into Kai Freeman than these brothers.
But even the Kai Freeman thing doesn't have a lot
of legs to it. There are two people who heard
from someone that Kai confessed to killing Marble in jail,
but I don't there's they don't reinterview Kai, they don't,
(10:26):
as far as we can tell, talk to the people
who actually talk to Kai. And I just keep going
back to like, yes, he was like a scumbag who
was trading drugs for sexual favors with miners, and that's
a very different thing than murdering someone.
Speaker 6 (10:40):
Yes, yeah, so.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
And Kai did have a pretty tight and well corroborated alibi.
Here he is back in September of twenty eleven, going
over his timeline on Saturday, August twenty seventh, twenty eleven,
the day that Marble disappeared.
Speaker 5 (10:59):
On Saturday, what'd you do on Saturday?
Speaker 9 (11:02):
I woke up at about eleven, and then I got
ready to go to GCC because it wasn't over the day.
Speaker 6 (11:09):
And then I went there and then I came back here.
Speaker 9 (11:13):
Uh called down to the halls because uh Tanya is
helping me, uh.
Speaker 6 (11:17):
H help me get into it. And then then.
Speaker 9 (11:22):
I called her but no one answered, so I like
waited like half an hour. Then I went down there
and then they were there and showed her my class
and the papers and stuff, and then we just.
Speaker 6 (11:36):
You know, actually like paid for the.
Speaker 9 (11:39):
Class, and then uh we were just kind of talking
about that went out there for resting.
Speaker 4 (11:45):
What was timing of all laptop? Uh So you got
up at eleven?
Speaker 10 (11:49):
Okay, So I got up at eleven, got ready, Uh
when saw my mom went over at uh the Pine
Heights over there at like twelve thirty, okay, cause she.
Speaker 4 (12:00):
Comes on at twelve is it? But she starts her shift.
Speaker 6 (12:05):
I don't know what all she got there, but I
just went in. Sorryful there.
Speaker 9 (12:09):
I was going over there, and then then I left
as twelve forty five. And then when I got there,
I'm really sure what time, but it takes like twenty
minutes half an hour to get there, so probably a
little after one.
Speaker 6 (12:26):
Then I was there, signed in. Talk to the advisor.
Where where is that a little vege on Greenfield Community College?
Speaker 4 (12:35):
Yeah? Where where is that? That way in Greenfield?
Speaker 6 (12:39):
Like right as you get off the exit.
Speaker 9 (12:42):
You just take a rate and there's just signs that
lead you to it, like down the road.
Speaker 11 (12:46):
Then you lived just have to sign that go I
mean just that the actually goes down Route two is actually.
Speaker 4 (12:50):
Twenty six twenty six a twenty.
Speaker 11 (12:54):
So you get on the round circle and you go
into Greenfield and.
Speaker 6 (12:58):
It's yeah, you're you're there or is it your sign?
Speaker 9 (13:02):
It just says to go right, take a right, you
go buy uh DJ's.
Speaker 6 (13:07):
Then you just go down the road and there's just
a sign take through.
Speaker 3 (13:12):
It's on the west of the interstate.
Speaker 4 (13:14):
That's why I was missing.
Speaker 6 (13:16):
Okay, then I was there. After I got done talking
my advisor, I uh, you know, checked out the campus
state that. When I left that, I got.
Speaker 4 (13:27):
Who you who is your advisor?
Speaker 12 (13:30):
Uh?
Speaker 6 (13:30):
I just know his name is Randy.
Speaker 9 (13:32):
Randy anyway, So then I got back here.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
It was like.
Speaker 9 (13:40):
About three sometime like that. Then I called to Paula's
like pretty much since I got here. Wait, a little
bit went down, and it was sometime like around four
o'clock that they were there and I showed up.
Speaker 4 (14:00):
So she w she was she'll be there with uh
mister White whatever his first name is.
Speaker 6 (14:05):
Uh, it's just hollowing her mom.
Speaker 4 (14:07):
Oh her mom? Okay, you said they That's why I
was trying to figure out to do a day.
Speaker 9 (14:11):
Oh yeah, well cause I was going there to see
telling you cause you know, she's still helping me and
built us.
Speaker 4 (14:15):
So she's telling me it was school stuff for me.
Speaker 6 (14:18):
Yeah, cause she's at a college. I don't know she
works at a college.
Speaker 4 (14:22):
Oh cool, So what do you what are you looking
at a CCV?
Speaker 12 (14:27):
Uh?
Speaker 6 (14:28):
Computer science?
Speaker 2 (14:29):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (14:29):
Okay, my son does that cool?
Speaker 11 (14:36):
So you is that like a three year uh?
Speaker 13 (14:40):
Mare?
Speaker 2 (14:41):
Wana?
Speaker 9 (14:41):
You gotta go there for you say, there for two
years and then uh, you can transfer your credits to
a different college to u get the bachelor's degree.
Speaker 4 (14:51):
Oh, so, how long were you at Muhallow's that night?
Speaker 5 (14:57):
Uh? Is there?
Speaker 6 (14:58):
Probably till after Mi name cause we were watching a
bunch of shows with her mom. Then she left, uh
to go in her study for a little bit. Then
you just watched some movies.
Speaker 4 (15:12):
Yeah, Now we'd heard the.
Speaker 11 (15:17):
Marvel was supposed to whole couple with her around four o'clock,
and of course it never showed.
Speaker 4 (15:22):
Did she comment on that, because that was about when
you arrived here.
Speaker 6 (15:26):
I never heard anything like that. They never said anything.
Speaker 4 (15:30):
You never said anything at all.
Speaker 6 (15:32):
When I got there, they were just on the computer
and all.
Speaker 9 (15:35):
It was just like sitting on my couch and they're
just talking and Gonna just said hey.
Speaker 6 (15:41):
And walked in and then they showed them my papers.
Speaker 4 (15:49):
So you were at Mahala's.
Speaker 7 (15:51):
Mahala never said anything about meaning Marble at four o'clock?
You did she go to Marble's department? Did she leave
a you were at the apartment at her house? Did
she go up to Marble's apartment?
Speaker 11 (16:06):
So you just hung from four to midnight watching shows
and movies and whatnot, first with Tanya and then she
probably goes to bed and you guys wrap it up,
and what'd you do after midnight?
Speaker 6 (16:18):
I walked here and then.
Speaker 9 (16:21):
I played a computer game with my friends in there,
and then he went to bed.
Speaker 6 (16:25):
Like I didn't have to cover after that?
Speaker 11 (16:30):
Did Tanya's I mean, I'm sorry, did Mahalla say anything
at all as you left at.
Speaker 4 (16:35):
The end of the evening, like I wonder where Marble
is or No?
Speaker 6 (16:40):
That wasn't until the next day when the roommates came
bay that they.
Speaker 9 (16:45):
Said that Marvel didn't come home, that she mentioned.
Speaker 6 (16:49):
That he was missing.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
As we discussed in our initial coverage of Marble's disappearance,
season three, episode fourteen, followed the hurricanes, Rattleborough, Pedy went
to great lengths to corroborate Kai's time line and alibi.
What we didn't know then was how similar both Mahala
and her mother's versions of the day were, and how
they painted a very clear picture of when exactly Marble
(17:19):
went missing and what Kai was doing at the time.
According to Mahala and her mother, Tanya, Mahala called Marble
at around noon on August twenty seventh, the day he disappeared,
and notably, the day Hurricane Irene hit southern Vermont. Mahala
said that she was calling Marble to see if he
(17:39):
could help them prepare for the hurricane and then spend
the night at their house, but no one answered. She
called again about ninety minutes later, some time around one thirty.
This time Marble did answer, and he told Mahala that
he'd planned on going to visit their friend sie Jay
at college with their other friend John, but at the
last minute, Marble decided not to go. No one knows why,
(18:03):
and so he agreed to go to Mahala's house that
afternoon instead. Tanya and Mahala had plans to drive to Keene,
but said that they'd pick Marble up on their way
home sometime between three and four pm. But when they
arrived at Marble's house at three point thirty, his roommate Mickey,
answered the door, and when he went to go get Marble,
(18:23):
he found that Marble was gone and had left a note,
time stamped at two twenty. The note said that he
was going to hang out with the Grimlin Hoarde and
would be back in thirty minutes. Here's Mahala describing that
day in a twenty twenty one interview with Brattleboro PD.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
At the time, Borders the bookstore was like going out
of business and they were having like all these clearance sales,
and I wanted him to come to Borders with us,
but my mom really wanted like some other daughter time.
So we decided to go to Borders and then pick
him up at four. And I can't remember the exact
(19:04):
time I talked to him on the phone, probably sometime
around Nuonish, I would say, probably anywhere between twelve and two.
But I called him just to tell him not to
leave the house because there had been issues where we
would have plans to hang out and he would like
(19:27):
end up hanging out with someone else and be kind
of trapped because he didn't have a car. Because just
several things to remember. One, we were like pretty young,
you know, we were like high schoolers, so like he, well,
I was fresh out of high school. But so we
didn't have cars because we were like teenagers, and we
(19:51):
were very much reliant on rides from like whichever friends
had cars, or from like parents, And so when he
would be a it would be like really hard to
get to him. And this was also before everyone had
smartphones too, So I just like called him to be like,
please stay put because I didn't want to repeat of
(20:13):
the other times where we would have plans and I
will go pick him up and he would just not
be there. And he promised me, he was like, don't worry,
I will stay put. I'm not gonna like go off
and hang out with John. They were best friends at
the time, and John was like the main person who
he would end up kind of like unintentionally ditching me
(20:35):
for okay, Yeah, And so, uh, when we went to
his house at four, he wasn't there. And at first,
like we thought nothing of it. I was actually just
fucking pissed. I was like, oh my god, he fucking
ditched me again. But then you know, as things kind
of progressed, we got more and more worried. Uh, no
(20:57):
one was hearing from him, and you know, with Irene happening,
people were starting to get concerned. I was still not
concerned for like a little while after, just because he
he was kind of just a hard person to get
a hold of. If he wasn't in his house, then
(21:19):
you know, obviously a couple of days became like a week,
and by that point it was clear that it was
extremely serious.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
Was it was it normal for him to go off
at all like that or was that odd in and
of itself?
Speaker 2 (21:37):
Well, that that was the thing, Like it was kind
of normal for him to sort of like you know,
like someone would come get him. As for him like
going off on his own, like theoretically if he were
to be alone, Like, it's it's not that crazy that
(21:57):
he would like go on a stroll in the wood
to like smoke weed or whatever, because he wasn't supposed
to like smoke weed in his house because he smoked
a lot of weed. But like still though, like even
just him like strolling into the woods, I wouldn't think
he would get so deep in the woods that like
he would you know, like get himself lost and never
(22:19):
be found again or anything like that. He would just
like I mean, this is purely speculation, but like if
he were to go to the woods, it would just
be like a little bit so that he could like
smoke weed without his guardian seeing or whatever.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
So there's a lot to unpack here, from Marble bailing
on Mahala to hang out with John to the timeline
to Marble disappearing into the woods to smoke weed, to
the Grimlin Horde in general. But first, let's continue with
the timeline. When Mahala and Tanya got to Marbles and
he wasn't there, they weren't overly concerned, maybe just a
(22:55):
little annoyed, because this was something that Marbled with some regularity.
He'd make plans, get caught up with John and not
show up, So when he wasn't there, they just returned home.
Sometime between three thirty and four, which is right around
the same time that Kai says he got to Mahali's house,
(23:17):
and because of interviews with Marble's roommate Cory and with
Kai's enrollment counselor at GCC, we know it would have
been nearly impossible for Kai to have gotten to Marble's
house by two twenty pm. His roommate, Corey confirmed that
he saw Marble leaving between two and two twenty and
that he saw a guy who was about six foot
three and wearing a baseball cap standing in the doorway
(23:39):
as Marble left, and Kai's enrollment counselor confirmed that Kai
arrived at his office sometime after one pm and that
it took about twenty minutes to enroll him in classes,
and following enrollment, Kai toward the campus, which campus security
guards said could take anywhere from thirty to sixty minutes.
From door to door. GCC is a thirty five minute
(24:02):
drive to Marble's house, meaning the very earliest that Kai
could have gotten to Marble's house was at two twenty five,
and that doesn't account for the time it would take
for Kai to get to his car, leave the parking lot,
and any traffic he might encounter along the way. All
this is to say it's possible Kai could have been
(24:23):
there at two twenty, but highly unlikely and nearly impossible
for him to have been there any sooner than two twenty. Additionally, Kai, Mahala,
and Tanya all reported that Kai got to Mahala's house
at some time between three thirty and four pm, which
means if Kai was involved, the most time he would
(24:45):
have to abduct, murder, hide Marble's remains, clean himself up,
then drive to Mahala's house would be one hour and
ten minutes, and Kai's timeline for the remainder of the
night is even more airtight. Everyone confirmed that he left
Mahala's at about twelve fifteen, and Kay's friends who lived
in the same building as him, confirmed that they played
(25:07):
video games at Kai's apartment from shortly after midnight until
the early morning hours. The other things that came up
in that clip from Mahala's twenty twenty one interview are
Marble's propensity to ditch her for their friend John, and
it's worth noting that according to Marble's caretaker Mike, he
had caught Marble and John sexually fooling around not long
(25:30):
before Marble disappeared. And while Marble's sexuality doesn't really come
up in the supplemental files as it didn't in the
original files, there is one brief reference to it. Investigators
ask John if Marble had a sexual relationship with his
roommate Mickey, to which John says not to his knowledge.
(25:53):
It's important to note that John has an alibi for
when Marble disappeared, and it's one we're going to get
into in a minute. The other items of note from
that clip are the reference to the Grimlin hoard, Marble
spending time alone in the woods, and the man Corey
saw Marble leaving with, all of which will bring us
to Israel.
Speaker 8 (26:13):
Keys I was heard he's left in not saying he's
off to frolic with the Grimlins.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
That's the most the extent of information.
Speaker 14 (26:24):
I was giving.
Speaker 5 (26:25):
When did you all know Marvel? Very well?
Speaker 3 (26:27):
I just started hanging out with him this summer.
Speaker 8 (26:29):
This is really like my intro to its Marble, and
like I got a lot like the month before I left.
But m hmm, yeah, that's really that's the first.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
Time I met Marvel.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
This is CJ. He Mahala and John were Marble's closest
friends during the summer before he disappeared. CJ is whom
Marble was supposed to visit at college the weekend that
he went missing.
Speaker 8 (26:52):
How did you meet mar I think I think I
was sober Maula's house and he came over and then
we started hanging out from there.
Speaker 5 (26:59):
And what do you guys do when you ung out?
And I don't care if you guys smoke.
Speaker 8 (27:02):
Weed and just hung out and it's just we're very
into paranormal stuff. So that's just like that's the fun
thing to do with our group because there's spreadborough or
something really exciting, but going.
Speaker 3 (27:11):
Off in the woods and like ghost hunts and stuff
like that. Just kids stuff.
Speaker 10 (27:15):
Like that.
Speaker 5 (27:15):
So when you went off into the woods and you
did like ghost huts, what can you tell.
Speaker 4 (27:19):
Me what that was?
Speaker 8 (27:19):
Freaking ourselves out over things like, oh, it's a chat
over there, just like stuff like that, like telling ghost stories,
like there's a nerve, a myth of like a cult
in my woods and there's just like this really cool
story around that, and like you just you kind of
make yourself believe it and then it's.
Speaker 3 (27:36):
Really it's cool stuff like that.
Speaker 5 (27:37):
But yeah, now, when you guys used to go to
the which word you used to go and do this?
Speaker 3 (27:41):
My woods particularly, just like once or twice we went
out there. We actually went out there the night before
the weekend before I left.
Speaker 5 (27:48):
What's your woods?
Speaker 3 (27:49):
It's the woods on my property that kind of leads
up the mountain a little bit.
Speaker 5 (27:53):
It's like where's that, what's towards round what's Sportsborough?
Speaker 12 (27:56):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (27:56):
Okay, so whereabouts? What's Sportsborough?
Speaker 14 (27:59):
Do you know?
Speaker 3 (28:00):
Put I do? It's right up in the entrance to that.
Speaker 5 (28:03):
Are you closer to Ver one hundred?
Speaker 3 (28:05):
Yeah I'm not. I'm right on rightund okay.
Speaker 5 (28:08):
On quote unroad.
Speaker 7 (28:09):
We're off very entrance yeah okay, And that's where you
guys used to go up there, and how does he
get up to your place?
Speaker 13 (28:16):
Uh?
Speaker 4 (28:16):
John drug m.
Speaker 8 (28:17):
We usually like travel as a group, either I'm driving
or John's driving, because we're really the only two with license.
It's usually me, Mahala, John, and Marble.
Speaker 4 (28:25):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (28:26):
I like for the month before I left, that was
kind of.
Speaker 4 (28:28):
Like our group, we're dying out like that.
Speaker 7 (28:30):
The three yeah front of the four Yeah yeah alright,
And would you go anywhere else and do this cemeteries
like sometimes.
Speaker 8 (28:41):
Like just walk around ceminaries and stuff like that that
just generally goes with like creepy building. We might like
look at the windows or something not in the windows,
take pictures and see what we can see. Just stuff
like that. But I think like that the woods is
like the only place we actually like went with.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
The one thing that stood out to me. Again, before
we get into the keys section of all this is
literally all of his close friends. So he had a
bunch of friends, but this summer before he disappeared, he
was hanging out with three in particular, Mahaala, that John
kid who is gay, uh and this kid c J.
(29:25):
And all three of them said, we think he just
went away for too long and is now freaked out
to come back because of the repercussions of being missing.
Speaker 6 (29:36):
When did they say that?
Speaker 1 (29:37):
Pardon did they say that early on? Yeah? And one
of them even just like offered that to the police.
He was like, hey, want to know what I think.
And then there were a lot of sightings of him.
Some have been ruled out as that other kid who
looks like Marble. But one thing that came up is
he had told John, if I ever decided to run
(29:59):
away from my life, I'm going to shave my head
so no one recognizes me. And there are multiple tips
of him walking away from Brattleboro on the day he
disappeared with a shaved head.
Speaker 6 (30:10):
That's weird.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
But then where the hell did he go?
Speaker 1 (30:13):
Yeah, so there are some options, and that's this is
where we're going to get into the keys section of
the files. In addition to hiking, Marble liked to go
camp in the woods. He was very into paranormal He
would hang out in cemeteries.
Speaker 7 (30:32):
This is just baffling me, really, Yeah, So, I mean,
just you're in my opinion, I feel as though he
went away for a little longer than thought you would.
Speaker 8 (30:45):
And he got back probably late at night and he realized,
oh wow, everyone's freaking out, and so he's just kind
of somewhere trying to figure out how he's going to.
Speaker 3 (30:54):
Come back without people being really mad at him, because
that just seems like the person he is.
Speaker 7 (31:00):
He hasn't contacted mahala, He hasn't contacted anybody.
Speaker 3 (31:02):
I feel like he's just scared.
Speaker 8 (31:04):
I feel like I'm assuming he's still just out there.
Speaker 3 (31:07):
But mm hmm, I feel like he's hiding out with
a friend. And I've even heard.
Speaker 8 (31:13):
People say they've seen him like with a shaved head.
Speaker 13 (31:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 8 (31:17):
We actually went out last night and like just lived
around town at night because we heard and you've been
seen at night.
Speaker 3 (31:22):
So we figured just for the hell of because something
to do.
Speaker 5 (31:25):
But I just I just need confirmation that he's okay.
Speaker 4 (31:29):
Right, that's.
Speaker 5 (31:33):
So just keep that in mind.
Speaker 4 (31:35):
I do.
Speaker 5 (31:35):
And if you think he's just out frolicking with the ground.
Speaker 3 (31:38):
Ones, it's just interesting other kid he is.
Speaker 5 (31:42):
Yeah, And I know what you know.
Speaker 7 (31:45):
When he left that note, you know, Marvelous joined a
grumbling horne and is off frolcking.
Speaker 5 (31:51):
I knew exactly what that meant. You know, I'm with
friends smoking weed.
Speaker 3 (31:54):
Right exactly.
Speaker 4 (31:55):
So I just.
Speaker 8 (31:58):
And like we've checked all the places that we think
he might go, because the Mahalla knows a lot of
places and m John knows a lot of places. So
we checked my woods like thinking he might have gone
off there camping, but he wasn't there.
Speaker 4 (32:09):
We checked.
Speaker 5 (32:11):
Readsbrough.
Speaker 3 (32:12):
I think it was yeh because there's a nice counsel
out there, but he wasn't there.
Speaker 5 (32:17):
Like I said, alright, did he talk about going out
of town anywhere?
Speaker 12 (32:20):
Did he?
Speaker 13 (32:21):
Nah?
Speaker 3 (32:21):
No, he's kind of out of the blue thing.
Speaker 5 (32:25):
Okay.
Speaker 8 (32:27):
Also another thing is if he had did actually sh
shave his head, that means pretty much he went on
like a meltdown cause he is obsessed with his hair.
Speaker 5 (32:34):
Right, Yeah, so right, that's what I felt.
Speaker 7 (32:37):
If he shaved his head, it was he was stripping
away his how or shell and getting down to and
he might have had a breakdown him.
Speaker 3 (32:45):
And I think Mahalla says that he was really excited
for senior this So he.
Speaker 5 (32:49):
Was really excited for senior year.
Speaker 7 (32:51):
Sure, so that's definitely weird, but yeah, cause that's what
everybody's been telling us.
Speaker 5 (32:56):
He was excited to go back to school this year
for some reason.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
Yeah, like CJ. Marble's good friend John, also thought Marble
most likely went to the woods on the day that
he disappeared. But John, who'd known Marble the longest out
of these three friends, had a few other theories on
what might have happened to Marble, several of which were
(33:21):
related to Marble's tough upbringing.
Speaker 5 (33:25):
Did you know where Marble might be?
Speaker 3 (33:30):
I can't think of anywhere specific.
Speaker 14 (33:32):
When this first started, I used to think he might
have been living with those under the Walmart or the
Connecticut River bridges, And I told you this before. But
I thought he might have been.
Speaker 4 (33:47):
In that wooded area by or.
Speaker 14 (33:50):
It is the Woods forest, I guess by Sheer Hill Road.
I told you about that when I first talked to you.
Speaker 3 (33:58):
I don't know if anyone has sent any one around there.
Speaker 4 (34:00):
I thought he might have been.
Speaker 14 (34:01):
There, And like I said, he might have gone to
pat and they might be harboring. Other than that, I
can't think of anything him doing anything.
Speaker 5 (34:12):
Other than hopping on a train that.
Speaker 3 (34:15):
It was like the last thing.
Speaker 12 (34:16):
I can think of doing.
Speaker 5 (34:17):
Now. Did he have a lot of money.
Speaker 14 (34:21):
He made a lot of money, but he'd never had it,
and as far as I know, he didn't No I
don't think he had a bank account, so.
Speaker 3 (34:29):
Any money he would have had would have been kept
like in.
Speaker 14 (34:32):
A box under his bat or something like that.
Speaker 3 (34:35):
All of his money.
Speaker 14 (34:36):
He told me that he did spend a lot of
money on red. That's according to him, he spent almost
all of it. And it seemed like he must have
cause he was making he was making or getting a
good twenty five or twenty five plus hours a week.
And if he was making like a good amount of
money for a teenager, do you.
Speaker 3 (34:56):
Know how much money he was making at least been
him a wage?
Speaker 14 (34:59):
So U he's to be sixteen, and I'm pretty sure
it was above in water if he was like eight
fifty possibly nine dollars an hour.
Speaker 7 (35:05):
Yeah, would he be wanted to run off if he
was in trouble?
Speaker 12 (35:20):
Uh?
Speaker 14 (35:20):
A lot of people ask for that, and I think
he would, Like I know Marvel pretty well, he's a
pretty independent person.
Speaker 3 (35:29):
He like really into survival.
Speaker 14 (35:32):
Stuff, into like working out, wanting to be tough, So
I think he would. I think he kind of prepared,
like wanted to be prepared for if.
Speaker 8 (35:43):
You had to.
Speaker 14 (35:46):
You know, It's like, h I guess when he was
really handy, he was good of he was like really
resourceful with the world to be.
Speaker 3 (35:54):
Yeah, I think he.
Speaker 6 (35:55):
Would if he had to.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
In that clip, John men that Marble might possibly be
with Pat. You may recall that Pat and Sue were
Marble's first foster guardians. They were homesteaders who lived in
the woods outside of Wilmington, Vermont, the same small town
where John lived, about twenty miles west of Brattleborough, and
of all the caretakers that Marble had as a teenager,
(36:20):
Pat and Sue were the ones he was closest to,
and he stayed in close contact with them from the
time that he left their house until the day he disappeared.
By all accounts, Pats included, Marble spent the night prior
to his disappearance at Pat and Sue's house. According to John,
(36:41):
Marble was having some problems in Brattleboro. He didn't like
his caregiver, Mike, and he was recently opening up about
a childhood trauma which was linked to his estranged mother.
And his estranged mother had recently returned to Brattleborough, which,
according to both Mahaala and John, was deeply troubling to Marble.
(37:01):
So John thought that perhaps Pat was trying to protect
Marble from both Mike and his mother, but police ruled
both Pat and Sue out from being involved in Marble's disappearance.
John and c J both mentioned Marble being in the woods,
(37:22):
and both areas they mentioned have significance in our overall
investigation into Keys and into what we know about Marble.
John mentioned the woods on Shearer Hill Road in Wilmington.
Those woods are near where Marble once lived and a
house that was abandoned at the time of Marble's disappearance,
(37:42):
a house that, according to his friends, Marble liked to
hang out in. Those woods also abut a small isolated cemetery,
a location both Keys and Marble were known to frequent
for two very different reasons. And c J mentioned the
woods behind his house in west Wardsborough. Those woods are
(38:05):
along Root one hundred. In addition to having their own
folklore of colts, those woods also contain an old, small
isolated cemetery. Additionally, thereon Root one hundred where two other
men disappeared in the years prior to Marble's disappearance, Donni
Meser and a man named Brian Gomez whose name is
(38:29):
eerily similar to Brian Dosantos Gomez. One of the name
is forty five. Root one hundred is also the same
road where the mysterious bag found in the spur Lane
garage was manufactured and sold. But those aren't the only
new coincidences between Marble's disappearance and what we know about
(38:50):
Israel Keys, specifically where Keys was spending his time in
the summer of two thousand eleven. The other really interesting
thing is this CJ guy was a year older than Marble,
John and Mahaala and he left to go to college
about a week and a half before Marble disappeared. And
(39:11):
guess where he went to college?
Speaker 6 (39:14):
Got where?
Speaker 15 (39:16):
And then I went and drove drove the car I
had rented to another parking lot was across the street
from the home depot, and then went and got in
their car and drove up north to where the banks were.
Where at the north it's up We're out fifteen there.
I think the Furthest bank that I was looking at
(39:37):
was up in a town called Johnson or Johnsonville or.
Speaker 1 (39:41):
Something Johnson, Vermont what And that's weird. John was visiting
CJ when Marble disappeared, and Marble was originally going to
go with them, And I forget why he didn't, and
then john couldn't come back because of the flooding, so
they stayed up there together for a few days. But
(40:01):
it's interesting that, like Marble had plans to go to
Johnson when he disappeared.
Speaker 6 (40:08):
Yeah, weird and sorry go Michelle.
Speaker 2 (40:13):
Oh, I was just gonna say the camping thing that
you mentioned reminds me of Mark Oldbury.
Speaker 1 (40:19):
Yeah, when Marble disappeared, he had plans to go to Johnson,
Vermont to visit his friend at college. The same town
where Keys took the Courier's car to rob a bank
just two months before Marble vanished. The same college where
a girl believes that Keys stalked her for a night.
(40:40):
The same town where a woman believes Keys used Craigslist
to lure her to an abandoned parking lot, which had
me wondering could Marble have changed his mind at the
last minute, But there were so many similarities between Keys's
June twenty eleven and August twenty eleven timelines. Just before
(41:00):
he abducted the Couriers, Keyes visited Heidi in Harlan, Indiana,
presumably in an attempt to distance himself from one or
possibly two different abductions. Well, according to Heide's good friend
and neighbor, Keyes also visited Heidi in late August of
two thousand eleven, and on August twenty eighth, the day
(41:24):
after Marble disappeared, Keyes was seen for the third time
at a soup kitchen in Johnstown, New York, where Kelly
Sue Akronic disappeared from in two thousand eight, which is
just a two and a half hour drive from Brattleboro
and a four hour drive from Johnson. A few days later,
a separate garage at a rural house in Franklin, Vermont,
(41:47):
was completely burned down in what would eventually be determined
to be an arson very similar to the arson that
occurred in Alito, Texas. That house is less than an
hour from Johnson and located directly next to a church
and a rural cemetery, and as of twenty twenty one,
(42:13):
when the Brattleboro PD pulled out Marble's file for the
ten year anniversary, it seemed more than clear they had
no suspects. They were no longer asking questions about Kai
or the brothers. They told several people they didn't think
Marble left of his own volition, nor that he harmed himself.
(42:37):
They asked Mahalla, with some level of desperation. Is there
anyone else they should be thinking about? The supplemental files
made it clear the police believed that Marble was abducted,
and the police have no primary suspects. The more I
stared at the map of Keyes's known activity, then Amus
(43:00):
forty five kisus potential crimes and Marble's known activity, the
harder it became to ignore the many, many coincidences, and
those amongst the three other potential Keys abductions in that
area Kelley Sue Akronick, Donny Mesier, and Brian Gomez. And
(43:20):
then there was one more, a woman who disappeared just
six weeks after Marble along that same river, the Connecticut River,
across the state line two towns over, while Keys was
in fact in the area.
Speaker 12 (43:42):
Who canna follow ou? Why not be the oshan We're
(44:03):
on revel be my only be the water were waited?
Speaker 8 (44:15):
Y are my river running?
Speaker 12 (44:17):
Hug round rom.
Speaker 13 (44:23):
H follow I follow you, deep see Baby, I follow you, follow,
I follow you, the Romney, I follow you.
Speaker 1 (44:40):
This episode was written, researched, edited, and produced by Me
Your Host Josh Hallmark, with additional research by Jordan Taylor,
and Shana Wilensky and research assistants by Michelle Tooker. The
episode featured SHANEA. Wilensky and Michelle Tooker. This episode was
made possible by the following Patreon producers Amelia Hancock, Amy
basel An Cash, Annette el Ash, Fish, Becky C Benjamin Choppapong,
(45:03):
Casey Jensen, Richardson, Christina Sassoon, Dale Axton, Drew Vipond, Heather Horton, Whedon,
Gillian Natale, Kathleen Studor, Kendall C, Lana Holliday, Lauren f Linley,
tuscoff Manolas Bulcus, Nicole and Dennis Henry, Nicole Guzman, Pink
s C. Shelley Brewer, Sherry D. Trista, Tuesday Woodworth, Zach Ignatowitz, Warren,
Beth McNally, John Comery, Jordan M, Jordan Taylor, Michael Beer,
(45:26):
Sarah C, SHAWNA Harden, Spooky Express, and Lydia Fiedler. Thank
you to Studio both Anne's newest Patreon supporters, Paula D,
Vicky h Michelle Juwannie Holly R. Caitlin w Gaale, C.
K Robinson, Melissa M, Kathy B Kate G. Virginia w
and p Astra, Amy B, Tara H. Patrick, p Leanne
j B, Christa R and case R. To support the investigation,
(45:50):
go to Patreon dot com, slash Studio both and This
episode included music by William Hellfire Labon and Radical Face,
with feature your music by Marika Hackman.
Speaker 12 (46:02):
He's a message. I'm not Rona, He's a rebel. I'm
Tauto waiting for you. You're my river, running high roun
(46:23):
Deep Bro.
Speaker 13 (46:27):
I follow, I follow you, Deep See Baby, I follow you,
I follow, I follow Dark Brown Honey, I follow you.
Speaker 12 (47:01):
M a run.
Speaker 5 (47:05):
And the Room.
Speaker 3 (47:08):
I followed, I follow Deep Sea Baby.
Speaker 13 (47:15):
I follow, I followed, I follow the Room and
Speaker 12 (47:24):
I follow
This is a studio both and production.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Okay, So so something that I really want to make
clear because this has consistently been, in my opinion, a
vast mischaracterization of him. He was not this bad, troubled
kid like I've noticed there's always been this characterization of him,
like he was this like bad, like outcast, like rebel type.
(00:37):
But I mean at least from when I knew him,
because you know, we were only dating for like a
few months before he went missing. Like I think we
started dating in like juneish. But when I knew him,
he was a really really good kid. Like, yeah, he
smoked a lot of weed and he had depression issues,
but he was really respectful of alts. He was always
(01:02):
talking about how you know, he wanted to get really
good grades this year and talking about going to college
and that was like his big dream for our relationship
was like us going to the same college together, and
like he really was looking forward to the future, and
he really was future driven. I think he was really happy,
(01:24):
and I think he was really like looking forward to things,
and he just he just seemed like really optimistic and
happy and he was really happy with our relationship. And
oh another thing too, was he he was working. He
took work seriously. Like he basically just wanted to be
like a good student. He wanted to have a part
(01:47):
time job, he was good at he wanted to be
a good boyfriend. And yeah, and I just wanted to
clear that up because, like, I know, I know, there's
like a narrative that some people stick to that's a
bit out of date that he was like this bad
rebel kit or whatever other than smoking weed. He was
not like that at all.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
This is true crime bullshit.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
I'm your host, Josh Hallmark, and this is a serialized
story of Israel Keys. Over the past few months, we've
received a handful of new files, and Mark Julian Oldberry's
isn't the only case file we've received that shed new
(02:34):
light on a disappearance we've previously covered. In fact, when
we received a supplemental case file on Marble Arbitson's disappearance,
we were hopeful it might take us on a journey
similar to Oldberry, especially because this supplemental file was even
more robust than our original foy file from Brattleboro, PD. Instead,
(02:57):
these new files hit us much differently. Our opinions changed
drastically with each read, there was new evidence, new information,
new leads, even new suspects, and a mountain of things
we got wrong the first time around. For example, the
home Marble was living in Mike and Mickey his foster parents.
(03:20):
They weren't a couple. In fact, they were both men.
Mike was officially Marble's foster dad, Mickey his roommate. Both
Mike and Mickey worked for Families First, the organization that
paired Marble with his foster families and mentors. The third roommate,
Cory Jackson, was twenty three at the time. He had
(03:41):
previously been in the foster care of Mickey, and when
he aged out of the system, became their room mate.
As far as we can tell, Mike and Mickey weren't
a couple, Although it is implied that Mickey was gay,
we haven't been able to verify that yet. Jordan and
I each read the files and then forwarded them to Cat.
She read them, shared her thoughts, and then we called
(04:03):
up the team to discuss the files and share them
with the larger group. The first thing is there are
two other suspects, a pair of brothers, and I ask
Kaz about this because they come up twice in the files,
two different people say that they believe that these brothers
(04:23):
killed Marble. Everyone involved in this version of events are
all part of the community that Marble's mother is in,
which it's called the Retreat. But I think it's like
a facility that they all either work at, or our
mentors at, or our patients at.
Speaker 4 (04:40):
Are they adults, yes, okay.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
The two brothers I think are young adults at the time,
but they're definitely older than Marble as far as I
can tell in the files, there is nothing connecting them
to Marble. They don't seem to know him, they don't
seem to know his mom. They, you know, are very
much on the periphery in the community. In fact, you
(05:06):
can look them up now. They no longer speak to
each other because one brother slept with the other brother's wife.
Since these brothers have not been convicted or ever named
publicly in regards to Marble's disappearance, we're simply going to
refer to them as the brothers in this episode, and
at first read of the supplemental files, their presence felt
(05:28):
significant because there were two different people who were either
told or insinuated to that the brothers murdered Marble in
the woods outside of Brattleboro, Vermont. One version is they
confessed to killing Marble. They took him to the woods
and beat him to death and then buried him. The
other version is some guys saw them leaving the woods
(05:53):
with shovels shortly after Marble disappeared and was under the
impression that they killed Marble, and then he told someone,
who told someone, and so everything is like funneled through
multiple people. And again, while these guys come up in
two different stories, there's nothing actually linking them to Marble.
(06:15):
And I can't tell if they were thoroughly looked into
and that's just redacted from the files, or if just
something came up that the police never thoroughly investigated them,
either because they could be alibied or whatever. But why
they weren't investigated is not included in the files as
far as I can tell.
Speaker 5 (06:33):
What about the motive, Like, what would their motive be?
Speaker 1 (06:37):
No motive is ever declared. I think loosely it's drugs.
And that's the other thing is, like everybody talks about
Marble did Marble was a pothead and he would like
buy drugs from various people. And then one of his
friends makes a comment that the police interpret as Marble
was moving lots of drugs, but I didn't interpret it
that way. I think that they are kind of like
(06:59):
looking for things that could have happened to Marble and
maybe exaggerating his use of drugs as a way to
like make sense of his disappearance. So here's the two
stories involving the brothers. One, a woman who was admittedly
a drug addict, told the police that she heard from
(07:19):
a friend on parole that he saw the brothers leaving
the woods one night following Hurricane Irene, and that they
were carrying shovels and covered in mud. The friend on
parole told this woman that he thought the brothers killed Marble. Two,
that same woman said that her ex friend, who was
(07:40):
also a drug addict, heard that the brothers confessed to
their mother that they beat Marble to death in the
woods one night. The police did end up interviewing that
ex friend, who confirmed that she heard directly from the
brother's mother that they had confessed to killing Marble. Now,
as far as we can tell from the files, neither
the brother nor their mother were ever interviewed, which is
(08:03):
not to say that they weren't they could have been
redacted from the files, or the police could have investigated
these stories and found that they weren't credible, true, or possible.
But what we do know is that the brothers remain
free today and never come up in the files again.
And there is nothing in the files or online ever
(08:23):
linking the brothers to Marble, his mother, or any of
Marble's friends. There's nothing to account for them even like
being together, let alone a motive for them to kill him.
Speaker 4 (08:35):
Yeah, Like, why would they just kill him?
Speaker 6 (08:36):
It doesn't make any sense. It's weird. And then they
didn't even know his mother, Yeah.
Speaker 7 (08:41):
Because I thought you were going to tell us that
they knew his mom, and then she had some kind
of debt to them and they decided, you know, something
went wrong with that scenario.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
But now, and like, these people from what I can
tell and even some of the stories I've read about
them in the files and elsewhere, like they are not
criminal masters by any sense of the word.
Speaker 6 (09:02):
Yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
I never got that from Kai either.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Yeah. The Kai thing is interesting because they you know,
he continues to be on their radar, but they have
a not ironclad alibi, but they have a pretty good
alibi for him.
Speaker 8 (09:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
The files also include more information on Kai Freeman, who
you may recall was Marble's girlfriend, Mahala's ex boyfriend. Kai
and Marble had an acquaintanceship, and there was speculation that
perhaps Marble bought weed from Kai. There were lots of
rumors that Kai had possibly killed Marble out of jealousy
(09:40):
over his relationship with Mahala. Several years after Marble went missing,
Kai was found guilty of trading weed with miners in
exchange for sex and has been in prison ever since.
So the most recent update in the files is twenty
twenty two. And I've noticed that since this came o out,
which I think was like closer to Marble's disappearance, they've
(10:05):
continued to look more into Kai Freeman than these brothers.
But even the Kai Freeman thing doesn't have a lot
of legs to it. There are two people who heard
from someone that Kai confessed to killing Marble in jail,
but I don't there's they don't reinterview Kai, they don't,
(10:26):
as far as we can tell, talk to the people
who actually talk to Kai. And I just keep going
back to like, yes, he was like a scumbag who
was trading drugs for sexual favors with miners, and that's
a very different thing than murdering someone.
Speaker 6 (10:40):
Yes, yeah, so.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
And Kai did have a pretty tight and well corroborated alibi.
Here he is back in September of twenty eleven, going
over his timeline on Saturday, August twenty seventh, twenty eleven,
the day that Marble disappeared.
Speaker 5 (10:59):
On Saturday, what'd you do on Saturday?
Speaker 9 (11:02):
I woke up at about eleven, and then I got
ready to go to GCC because it wasn't over the day.
Speaker 6 (11:09):
And then I went there and then I came back here.
Speaker 9 (11:13):
Uh called down to the halls because uh Tanya is
helping me, uh.
Speaker 6 (11:17):
H help me get into it. And then then.
Speaker 9 (11:22):
I called her but no one answered, so I like
waited like half an hour. Then I went down there
and then they were there and showed her my class
and the papers and stuff, and then we just.
Speaker 6 (11:36):
You know, actually like paid for the.
Speaker 9 (11:39):
Class, and then uh we were just kind of talking
about that went out there for resting.
Speaker 4 (11:45):
What was timing of all laptop? Uh So you got
up at eleven?
Speaker 10 (11:49):
Okay, So I got up at eleven, got ready, Uh
when saw my mom went over at uh the Pine
Heights over there at like twelve thirty, okay, cause she.
Speaker 4 (12:00):
Comes on at twelve is it? But she starts her shift.
Speaker 6 (12:05):
I don't know what all she got there, but I
just went in. Sorryful there.
Speaker 9 (12:09):
I was going over there, and then then I left
as twelve forty five. And then when I got there,
I'm really sure what time, but it takes like twenty
minutes half an hour to get there, so probably a
little after one.
Speaker 6 (12:26):
Then I was there, signed in. Talk to the advisor.
Where where is that a little vege on Greenfield Community College?
Speaker 4 (12:35):
Yeah? Where where is that? That way in Greenfield?
Speaker 6 (12:39):
Like right as you get off the exit.
Speaker 9 (12:42):
You just take a rate and there's just signs that
lead you to it, like down the road.
Speaker 11 (12:46):
Then you lived just have to sign that go I
mean just that the actually goes down Route two is actually.
Speaker 4 (12:50):
Twenty six twenty six a twenty.
Speaker 11 (12:54):
So you get on the round circle and you go
into Greenfield and.
Speaker 6 (12:58):
It's yeah, you're you're there or is it your sign?
Speaker 9 (13:02):
It just says to go right, take a right, you
go buy uh DJ's.
Speaker 6 (13:07):
Then you just go down the road and there's just
a sign take through.
Speaker 3 (13:12):
It's on the west of the interstate.
Speaker 4 (13:14):
That's why I was missing.
Speaker 6 (13:16):
Okay, then I was there. After I got done talking
my advisor, I uh, you know, checked out the campus
state that. When I left that, I got.
Speaker 4 (13:27):
Who you who is your advisor?
Speaker 12 (13:30):
Uh?
Speaker 6 (13:30):
I just know his name is Randy.
Speaker 9 (13:32):
Randy anyway, So then I got back here.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
It was like.
Speaker 9 (13:40):
About three sometime like that. Then I called to Paula's
like pretty much since I got here. Wait, a little
bit went down, and it was sometime like around four
o'clock that they were there and I showed up.
Speaker 4 (14:00):
So she w she was she'll be there with uh
mister White whatever his first name is.
Speaker 6 (14:05):
Uh, it's just hollowing her mom.
Speaker 4 (14:07):
Oh her mom? Okay, you said they That's why I
was trying to figure out to do a day.
Speaker 9 (14:11):
Oh yeah, well cause I was going there to see
telling you cause you know, she's still helping me and
built us.
Speaker 4 (14:15):
So she's telling me it was school stuff for me.
Speaker 6 (14:18):
Yeah, cause she's at a college. I don't know she
works at a college.
Speaker 4 (14:22):
Oh cool, So what do you what are you looking
at a CCV?
Speaker 12 (14:27):
Uh?
Speaker 6 (14:28):
Computer science?
Speaker 2 (14:29):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (14:29):
Okay, my son does that cool?
Speaker 11 (14:36):
So you is that like a three year uh?
Speaker 13 (14:40):
Mare?
Speaker 2 (14:41):
Wana?
Speaker 9 (14:41):
You gotta go there for you say, there for two
years and then uh, you can transfer your credits to
a different college to u get the bachelor's degree.
Speaker 4 (14:51):
Oh, so, how long were you at Muhallow's that night?
Speaker 5 (14:57):
Uh? Is there?
Speaker 6 (14:58):
Probably till after Mi name cause we were watching a
bunch of shows with her mom. Then she left, uh
to go in her study for a little bit. Then
you just watched some movies.
Speaker 4 (15:12):
Yeah, Now we'd heard the.
Speaker 11 (15:17):
Marvel was supposed to whole couple with her around four o'clock,
and of course it never showed.
Speaker 4 (15:22):
Did she comment on that, because that was about when
you arrived here.
Speaker 6 (15:26):
I never heard anything like that. They never said anything.
Speaker 4 (15:30):
You never said anything at all.
Speaker 6 (15:32):
When I got there, they were just on the computer
and all.
Speaker 9 (15:35):
It was just like sitting on my couch and they're
just talking and Gonna just said hey.
Speaker 6 (15:41):
And walked in and then they showed them my papers.
Speaker 4 (15:49):
So you were at Mahala's.
Speaker 7 (15:51):
Mahala never said anything about meaning Marble at four o'clock?
You did she go to Marble's department? Did she leave
a you were at the apartment at her house? Did
she go up to Marble's apartment?
Speaker 11 (16:06):
So you just hung from four to midnight watching shows
and movies and whatnot, first with Tanya and then she
probably goes to bed and you guys wrap it up,
and what'd you do after midnight?
Speaker 6 (16:18):
I walked here and then.
Speaker 9 (16:21):
I played a computer game with my friends in there,
and then he went to bed.
Speaker 6 (16:25):
Like I didn't have to cover after that?
Speaker 11 (16:30):
Did Tanya's I mean, I'm sorry, did Mahalla say anything
at all as you left at.
Speaker 4 (16:35):
The end of the evening, like I wonder where Marble
is or No?
Speaker 6 (16:40):
That wasn't until the next day when the roommates came
bay that they.
Speaker 9 (16:45):
Said that Marvel didn't come home, that she mentioned.
Speaker 6 (16:49):
That he was missing.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
As we discussed in our initial coverage of Marble's disappearance,
season three, episode fourteen, followed the hurricanes, Rattleborough, Pedy went
to great lengths to corroborate Kai's time line and alibi.
What we didn't know then was how similar both Mahala
and her mother's versions of the day were, and how
they painted a very clear picture of when exactly Marble
(17:19):
went missing and what Kai was doing at the time.
According to Mahala and her mother, Tanya, Mahala called Marble
at around noon on August twenty seventh, the day he disappeared,
and notably, the day Hurricane Irene hit southern Vermont. Mahala
said that she was calling Marble to see if he
(17:39):
could help them prepare for the hurricane and then spend
the night at their house, but no one answered. She
called again about ninety minutes later, some time around one thirty.
This time Marble did answer, and he told Mahala that
he'd planned on going to visit their friend sie Jay
at college with their other friend John, but at the
last minute, Marble decided not to go. No one knows why,
(18:03):
and so he agreed to go to Mahala's house that
afternoon instead. Tanya and Mahala had plans to drive to Keene,
but said that they'd pick Marble up on their way
home sometime between three and four pm. But when they
arrived at Marble's house at three point thirty, his roommate Mickey,
answered the door, and when he went to go get Marble,
(18:23):
he found that Marble was gone and had left a note,
time stamped at two twenty. The note said that he
was going to hang out with the Grimlin Hoarde and
would be back in thirty minutes. Here's Mahala describing that
day in a twenty twenty one interview with Brattleboro PD.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
At the time, Borders the bookstore was like going out
of business and they were having like all these clearance sales,
and I wanted him to come to Borders with us,
but my mom really wanted like some other daughter time.
So we decided to go to Borders and then pick
him up at four. And I can't remember the exact
(19:04):
time I talked to him on the phone, probably sometime
around Nuonish, I would say, probably anywhere between twelve and two.
But I called him just to tell him not to
leave the house because there had been issues where we
would have plans to hang out and he would like
(19:27):
end up hanging out with someone else and be kind
of trapped because he didn't have a car. Because just
several things to remember. One, we were like pretty young,
you know, we were like high schoolers, so like he, well,
I was fresh out of high school. But so we
didn't have cars because we were like teenagers, and we
(19:51):
were very much reliant on rides from like whichever friends
had cars, or from like parents, And so when he
would be a it would be like really hard to
get to him. And this was also before everyone had
smartphones too, So I just like called him to be like,
please stay put because I didn't want to repeat of
(20:13):
the other times where we would have plans and I
will go pick him up and he would just not
be there. And he promised me, he was like, don't worry,
I will stay put. I'm not gonna like go off
and hang out with John. They were best friends at
the time, and John was like the main person who
he would end up kind of like unintentionally ditching me
(20:35):
for okay, Yeah, And so, uh, when we went to
his house at four, he wasn't there. And at first,
like we thought nothing of it. I was actually just
fucking pissed. I was like, oh my god, he fucking
ditched me again. But then you know, as things kind
of progressed, we got more and more worried. Uh, no
(20:57):
one was hearing from him, and you know, with Irene happening,
people were starting to get concerned. I was still not
concerned for like a little while after, just because he
he was kind of just a hard person to get
a hold of. If he wasn't in his house, then
(21:19):
you know, obviously a couple of days became like a week,
and by that point it was clear that it was
extremely serious.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
Was it was it normal for him to go off
at all like that or was that odd in and
of itself?
Speaker 2 (21:37):
Well, that that was the thing, Like it was kind
of normal for him to sort of like you know,
like someone would come get him. As for him like
going off on his own, like theoretically if he were
to be alone, Like, it's it's not that crazy that
(21:57):
he would like go on a stroll in the wood
to like smoke weed or whatever, because he wasn't supposed
to like smoke weed in his house because he smoked
a lot of weed. But like still though, like even
just him like strolling into the woods, I wouldn't think
he would get so deep in the woods that like
he would you know, like get himself lost and never
(22:19):
be found again or anything like that. He would just
like I mean, this is purely speculation, but like if
he were to go to the woods, it would just
be like a little bit so that he could like
smoke weed without his guardian seeing or whatever.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
So there's a lot to unpack here, from Marble bailing
on Mahala to hang out with John to the timeline
to Marble disappearing into the woods to smoke weed, to
the Grimlin Horde in general. But first, let's continue with
the timeline. When Mahala and Tanya got to Marbles and
he wasn't there, they weren't overly concerned, maybe just a
(22:55):
little annoyed, because this was something that Marbled with some regularity.
He'd make plans, get caught up with John and not
show up, So when he wasn't there, they just returned home.
Sometime between three thirty and four, which is right around
the same time that Kai says he got to Mahali's house,
(23:17):
and because of interviews with Marble's roommate Cory and with
Kai's enrollment counselor at GCC, we know it would have
been nearly impossible for Kai to have gotten to Marble's
house by two twenty pm. His roommate, Corey confirmed that
he saw Marble leaving between two and two twenty and
that he saw a guy who was about six foot
three and wearing a baseball cap standing in the doorway
(23:39):
as Marble left, and Kai's enrollment counselor confirmed that Kai
arrived at his office sometime after one pm and that
it took about twenty minutes to enroll him in classes,
and following enrollment, Kai toward the campus, which campus security
guards said could take anywhere from thirty to sixty minutes.
From door to door. GCC is a thirty five minute
(24:02):
drive to Marble's house, meaning the very earliest that Kai
could have gotten to Marble's house was at two twenty five,
and that doesn't account for the time it would take
for Kai to get to his car, leave the parking lot,
and any traffic he might encounter along the way. All
this is to say it's possible Kai could have been
(24:23):
there at two twenty, but highly unlikely and nearly impossible
for him to have been there any sooner than two twenty. Additionally, Kai, Mahala,
and Tanya all reported that Kai got to Mahala's house
at some time between three thirty and four pm, which
means if Kai was involved, the most time he would
(24:45):
have to abduct, murder, hide Marble's remains, clean himself up,
then drive to Mahala's house would be one hour and
ten minutes, and Kai's timeline for the remainder of the
night is even more airtight. Everyone confirmed that he left
Mahala's at about twelve fifteen, and Kay's friends who lived
in the same building as him, confirmed that they played
(25:07):
video games at Kai's apartment from shortly after midnight until
the early morning hours. The other things that came up
in that clip from Mahala's twenty twenty one interview are
Marble's propensity to ditch her for their friend John, and
it's worth noting that according to Marble's caretaker Mike, he
had caught Marble and John sexually fooling around not long
(25:30):
before Marble disappeared. And while Marble's sexuality doesn't really come
up in the supplemental files as it didn't in the
original files, there is one brief reference to it. Investigators
ask John if Marble had a sexual relationship with his
roommate Mickey, to which John says not to his knowledge.
(25:53):
It's important to note that John has an alibi for
when Marble disappeared, and it's one we're going to get
into in a minute. The other items of note from
that clip are the reference to the Grimlin hoard, Marble
spending time alone in the woods, and the man Corey
saw Marble leaving with, all of which will bring us
to Israel.
Speaker 8 (26:13):
Keys I was heard he's left in not saying he's
off to frolic with the Grimlins.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
That's the most the extent of information.
Speaker 14 (26:24):
I was giving.
Speaker 5 (26:25):
When did you all know Marvel? Very well?
Speaker 3 (26:27):
I just started hanging out with him this summer.
Speaker 8 (26:29):
This is really like my intro to its Marble, and
like I got a lot like the month before I left.
But m hmm, yeah, that's really that's the first.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
Time I met Marvel.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
This is CJ. He Mahala and John were Marble's closest
friends during the summer before he disappeared. CJ is whom
Marble was supposed to visit at college the weekend that
he went missing.
Speaker 8 (26:52):
How did you meet mar I think I think I
was sober Maula's house and he came over and then
we started hanging out from there.
Speaker 5 (26:59):
And what do you guys do when you ung out?
And I don't care if you guys smoke.
Speaker 8 (27:02):
Weed and just hung out and it's just we're very
into paranormal stuff. So that's just like that's the fun
thing to do with our group because there's spreadborough or
something really exciting, but going.
Speaker 3 (27:11):
Off in the woods and like ghost hunts and stuff
like that. Just kids stuff.
Speaker 10 (27:15):
Like that.
Speaker 5 (27:15):
So when you went off into the woods and you
did like ghost huts, what can you tell.
Speaker 4 (27:19):
Me what that was?
Speaker 8 (27:19):
Freaking ourselves out over things like, oh, it's a chat
over there, just like stuff like that, like telling ghost stories,
like there's a nerve, a myth of like a cult
in my woods and there's just like this really cool
story around that, and like you just you kind of
make yourself believe it and then it's.
Speaker 3 (27:36):
Really it's cool stuff like that.
Speaker 5 (27:37):
But yeah, now, when you guys used to go to
the which word you used to go and do this?
Speaker 3 (27:41):
My woods particularly, just like once or twice we went
out there. We actually went out there the night before
the weekend before I left.
Speaker 5 (27:48):
What's your woods?
Speaker 3 (27:49):
It's the woods on my property that kind of leads
up the mountain a little bit.
Speaker 5 (27:53):
It's like where's that, what's towards round what's Sportsborough?
Speaker 12 (27:56):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (27:56):
Okay, so whereabouts? What's Sportsborough?
Speaker 14 (27:59):
Do you know?
Speaker 3 (28:00):
Put I do? It's right up in the entrance to that.
Speaker 5 (28:03):
Are you closer to Ver one hundred?
Speaker 3 (28:05):
Yeah I'm not. I'm right on rightund okay.
Speaker 5 (28:08):
On quote unroad.
Speaker 7 (28:09):
We're off very entrance yeah okay, And that's where you
guys used to go up there, and how does he
get up to your place?
Speaker 13 (28:16):
Uh?
Speaker 4 (28:16):
John drug m.
Speaker 8 (28:17):
We usually like travel as a group, either I'm driving
or John's driving, because we're really the only two with license.
It's usually me, Mahala, John, and Marble.
Speaker 4 (28:25):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (28:26):
I like for the month before I left, that was
kind of.
Speaker 4 (28:28):
Like our group, we're dying out like that.
Speaker 7 (28:30):
The three yeah front of the four Yeah yeah alright,
And would you go anywhere else and do this cemeteries
like sometimes.
Speaker 8 (28:41):
Like just walk around ceminaries and stuff like that that
just generally goes with like creepy building. We might like
look at the windows or something not in the windows,
take pictures and see what we can see. Just stuff
like that. But I think like that the woods is
like the only place we actually like went with.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
The one thing that stood out to me. Again, before
we get into the keys section of all this is
literally all of his close friends. So he had a
bunch of friends, but this summer before he disappeared, he
was hanging out with three in particular, Mahaala, that John
kid who is gay, uh and this kid c J.
(29:25):
And all three of them said, we think he just
went away for too long and is now freaked out
to come back because of the repercussions of being missing.
Speaker 6 (29:36):
When did they say that?
Speaker 1 (29:37):
Pardon did they say that early on? Yeah? And one
of them even just like offered that to the police.
He was like, hey, want to know what I think.
And then there were a lot of sightings of him.
Some have been ruled out as that other kid who
looks like Marble. But one thing that came up is
he had told John, if I ever decided to run
(29:59):
away from my life, I'm going to shave my head
so no one recognizes me. And there are multiple tips
of him walking away from Brattleboro on the day he
disappeared with a shaved head.
Speaker 6 (30:10):
That's weird.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
But then where the hell did he go?
Speaker 1 (30:13):
Yeah, so there are some options, and that's this is
where we're going to get into the keys section of
the files. In addition to hiking, Marble liked to go
camp in the woods. He was very into paranormal He
would hang out in cemeteries.
Speaker 7 (30:32):
This is just baffling me, really, Yeah, So, I mean,
just you're in my opinion, I feel as though he
went away for a little longer than thought you would.
Speaker 8 (30:45):
And he got back probably late at night and he realized,
oh wow, everyone's freaking out, and so he's just kind
of somewhere trying to figure out how he's going to.
Speaker 3 (30:54):
Come back without people being really mad at him, because
that just seems like the person he is.
Speaker 7 (31:00):
He hasn't contacted mahala, He hasn't contacted anybody.
Speaker 3 (31:02):
I feel like he's just scared.
Speaker 8 (31:04):
I feel like I'm assuming he's still just out there.
Speaker 3 (31:07):
But mm hmm, I feel like he's hiding out with
a friend. And I've even heard.
Speaker 8 (31:13):
People say they've seen him like with a shaved head.
Speaker 13 (31:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 8 (31:17):
We actually went out last night and like just lived
around town at night because we heard and you've been
seen at night.
Speaker 3 (31:22):
So we figured just for the hell of because something
to do.
Speaker 5 (31:25):
But I just I just need confirmation that he's okay.
Speaker 4 (31:29):
Right, that's.
Speaker 5 (31:33):
So just keep that in mind.
Speaker 4 (31:35):
I do.
Speaker 5 (31:35):
And if you think he's just out frolicking with the ground.
Speaker 3 (31:38):
Ones, it's just interesting other kid he is.
Speaker 5 (31:42):
Yeah, And I know what you know.
Speaker 7 (31:45):
When he left that note, you know, Marvelous joined a
grumbling horne and is off frolcking.
Speaker 5 (31:51):
I knew exactly what that meant. You know, I'm with
friends smoking weed.
Speaker 3 (31:54):
Right exactly.
Speaker 4 (31:55):
So I just.
Speaker 8 (31:58):
And like we've checked all the places that we think
he might go, because the Mahalla knows a lot of
places and m John knows a lot of places. So
we checked my woods like thinking he might have gone
off there camping, but he wasn't there.
Speaker 4 (32:09):
We checked.
Speaker 5 (32:11):
Readsbrough.
Speaker 3 (32:12):
I think it was yeh because there's a nice counsel
out there, but he wasn't there.
Speaker 5 (32:17):
Like I said, alright, did he talk about going out
of town anywhere?
Speaker 12 (32:20):
Did he?
Speaker 13 (32:21):
Nah?
Speaker 3 (32:21):
No, he's kind of out of the blue thing.
Speaker 5 (32:25):
Okay.
Speaker 8 (32:27):
Also another thing is if he had did actually sh
shave his head, that means pretty much he went on
like a meltdown cause he is obsessed with his hair.
Speaker 5 (32:34):
Right, Yeah, so right, that's what I felt.
Speaker 7 (32:37):
If he shaved his head, it was he was stripping
away his how or shell and getting down to and
he might have had a breakdown him.
Speaker 3 (32:45):
And I think Mahalla says that he was really excited
for senior this So he.
Speaker 5 (32:49):
Was really excited for senior year.
Speaker 7 (32:51):
Sure, so that's definitely weird, but yeah, cause that's what
everybody's been telling us.
Speaker 5 (32:56):
He was excited to go back to school this year
for some reason.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
Yeah, like CJ. Marble's good friend John, also thought Marble
most likely went to the woods on the day that
he disappeared. But John, who'd known Marble the longest out
of these three friends, had a few other theories on
what might have happened to Marble, several of which were
(33:21):
related to Marble's tough upbringing.
Speaker 5 (33:25):
Did you know where Marble might be?
Speaker 3 (33:30):
I can't think of anywhere specific.
Speaker 14 (33:32):
When this first started, I used to think he might
have been living with those under the Walmart or the
Connecticut River bridges, And I told you this before. But
I thought he might have been.
Speaker 4 (33:47):
In that wooded area by or.
Speaker 14 (33:50):
It is the Woods forest, I guess by Sheer Hill Road.
I told you about that when I first talked to you.
Speaker 3 (33:58):
I don't know if anyone has sent any one around there.
Speaker 4 (34:00):
I thought he might have been.
Speaker 14 (34:01):
There, And like I said, he might have gone to
pat and they might be harboring. Other than that, I
can't think of anything him doing anything.
Speaker 5 (34:12):
Other than hopping on a train that.
Speaker 3 (34:15):
It was like the last thing.
Speaker 12 (34:16):
I can think of doing.
Speaker 5 (34:17):
Now. Did he have a lot of money.
Speaker 14 (34:21):
He made a lot of money, but he'd never had it,
and as far as I know, he didn't No I
don't think he had a bank account, so.
Speaker 3 (34:29):
Any money he would have had would have been kept
like in.
Speaker 14 (34:32):
A box under his bat or something like that.
Speaker 3 (34:35):
All of his money.
Speaker 14 (34:36):
He told me that he did spend a lot of
money on red. That's according to him, he spent almost
all of it. And it seemed like he must have
cause he was making he was making or getting a
good twenty five or twenty five plus hours a week.
And if he was making like a good amount of
money for a teenager, do you.
Speaker 3 (34:56):
Know how much money he was making at least been
him a wage?
Speaker 14 (34:59):
So U he's to be sixteen, and I'm pretty sure
it was above in water if he was like eight
fifty possibly nine dollars an hour.
Speaker 7 (35:05):
Yeah, would he be wanted to run off if he
was in trouble?
Speaker 12 (35:20):
Uh?
Speaker 14 (35:20):
A lot of people ask for that, and I think
he would, Like I know Marvel pretty well, he's a
pretty independent person.
Speaker 3 (35:29):
He like really into survival.
Speaker 14 (35:32):
Stuff, into like working out, wanting to be tough, So
I think he would. I think he kind of prepared,
like wanted to be prepared for if.
Speaker 8 (35:43):
You had to.
Speaker 14 (35:46):
You know, It's like, h I guess when he was
really handy, he was good of he was like really
resourceful with the world to be.
Speaker 3 (35:54):
Yeah, I think he.
Speaker 6 (35:55):
Would if he had to.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
In that clip, John men that Marble might possibly be
with Pat. You may recall that Pat and Sue were
Marble's first foster guardians. They were homesteaders who lived in
the woods outside of Wilmington, Vermont, the same small town
where John lived, about twenty miles west of Brattleborough, and
of all the caretakers that Marble had as a teenager,
(36:20):
Pat and Sue were the ones he was closest to,
and he stayed in close contact with them from the
time that he left their house until the day he disappeared.
By all accounts, Pats included, Marble spent the night prior
to his disappearance at Pat and Sue's house. According to John,
(36:41):
Marble was having some problems in Brattleboro. He didn't like
his caregiver, Mike, and he was recently opening up about
a childhood trauma which was linked to his estranged mother.
And his estranged mother had recently returned to Brattleborough, which,
according to both Mahaala and John, was deeply troubling to Marble.
(37:01):
So John thought that perhaps Pat was trying to protect
Marble from both Mike and his mother, but police ruled
both Pat and Sue out from being involved in Marble's disappearance.
John and c J both mentioned Marble being in the woods,
(37:22):
and both areas they mentioned have significance in our overall
investigation into Keys and into what we know about Marble.
John mentioned the woods on Shearer Hill Road in Wilmington.
Those woods are near where Marble once lived and a
house that was abandoned at the time of Marble's disappearance,
(37:42):
a house that, according to his friends, Marble liked to
hang out in. Those woods also abut a small isolated cemetery,
a location both Keys and Marble were known to frequent
for two very different reasons. And c J mentioned the
woods behind his house in west Wardsborough. Those woods are
(38:05):
along Root one hundred. In addition to having their own
folklore of colts, those woods also contain an old, small
isolated cemetery. Additionally, thereon Root one hundred where two other
men disappeared in the years prior to Marble's disappearance, Donni
Meser and a man named Brian Gomez whose name is
(38:29):
eerily similar to Brian Dosantos Gomez. One of the name
is forty five. Root one hundred is also the same
road where the mysterious bag found in the spur Lane
garage was manufactured and sold. But those aren't the only
new coincidences between Marble's disappearance and what we know about
(38:50):
Israel Keys, specifically where Keys was spending his time in
the summer of two thousand eleven. The other really interesting
thing is this CJ guy was a year older than Marble,
John and Mahaala and he left to go to college
about a week and a half before Marble disappeared. And
(39:11):
guess where he went to college?
Speaker 6 (39:14):
Got where?
Speaker 15 (39:16):
And then I went and drove drove the car I
had rented to another parking lot was across the street
from the home depot, and then went and got in
their car and drove up north to where the banks were.
Where at the north it's up We're out fifteen there.
I think the Furthest bank that I was looking at
(39:37):
was up in a town called Johnson or Johnsonville or.
Speaker 1 (39:41):
Something Johnson, Vermont what And that's weird. John was visiting
CJ when Marble disappeared, and Marble was originally going to
go with them, And I forget why he didn't, and
then john couldn't come back because of the flooding, so
they stayed up there together for a few days. But
(40:01):
it's interesting that, like Marble had plans to go to
Johnson when he disappeared.
Speaker 6 (40:08):
Yeah, weird and sorry go Michelle.
Speaker 2 (40:13):
Oh, I was just gonna say the camping thing that
you mentioned reminds me of Mark Oldbury.
Speaker 1 (40:19):
Yeah, when Marble disappeared, he had plans to go to Johnson,
Vermont to visit his friend at college. The same town
where Keys took the Courier's car to rob a bank
just two months before Marble vanished. The same college where
a girl believes that Keys stalked her for a night.
(40:40):
The same town where a woman believes Keys used Craigslist
to lure her to an abandoned parking lot, which had
me wondering could Marble have changed his mind at the
last minute, But there were so many similarities between Keys's
June twenty eleven and August twenty eleven timelines. Just before
(41:00):
he abducted the Couriers, Keyes visited Heidi in Harlan, Indiana,
presumably in an attempt to distance himself from one or
possibly two different abductions. Well, according to Heide's good friend
and neighbor, Keyes also visited Heidi in late August of
two thousand eleven, and on August twenty eighth, the day
(41:24):
after Marble disappeared, Keyes was seen for the third time
at a soup kitchen in Johnstown, New York, where Kelly
Sue Akronic disappeared from in two thousand eight, which is
just a two and a half hour drive from Brattleboro
and a four hour drive from Johnson. A few days later,
a separate garage at a rural house in Franklin, Vermont,
(41:47):
was completely burned down in what would eventually be determined
to be an arson very similar to the arson that
occurred in Alito, Texas. That house is less than an
hour from Johnson and located directly next to a church
and a rural cemetery, and as of twenty twenty one,
(42:13):
when the Brattleboro PD pulled out Marble's file for the
ten year anniversary, it seemed more than clear they had
no suspects. They were no longer asking questions about Kai
or the brothers. They told several people they didn't think
Marble left of his own volition, nor that he harmed himself.
(42:37):
They asked Mahalla, with some level of desperation. Is there
anyone else they should be thinking about? The supplemental files
made it clear the police believed that Marble was abducted,
and the police have no primary suspects. The more I
stared at the map of Keyes's known activity, then Amus
(43:00):
forty five kisus potential crimes and Marble's known activity, the
harder it became to ignore the many, many coincidences, and
those amongst the three other potential Keys abductions in that
area Kelley Sue Akronick, Donny Mesier, and Brian Gomez. And
(43:20):
then there was one more, a woman who disappeared just
six weeks after Marble along that same river, the Connecticut River,
across the state line two towns over, while Keys was
in fact in the area.
Speaker 12 (43:42):
Who canna follow ou? Why not be the oshan We're
(44:03):
on revel be my only be the water were waited?
Speaker 8 (44:15):
Y are my river running?
Speaker 12 (44:17):
Hug round rom.
Speaker 13 (44:23):
H follow I follow you, deep see Baby, I follow you, follow,
I follow you, the Romney, I follow you.
Speaker 1 (44:40):
This episode was written, researched, edited, and produced by Me
Your Host Josh Hallmark, with additional research by Jordan Taylor,
and Shana Wilensky and research assistants by Michelle Tooker. The
episode featured SHANEA. Wilensky and Michelle Tooker. This episode was
made possible by the following Patreon producers Amelia Hancock, Amy
basel An Cash, Annette el Ash, Fish, Becky C Benjamin Choppapong,
(45:03):
Casey Jensen, Richardson, Christina Sassoon, Dale Axton, Drew Vipond, Heather Horton, Whedon,
Gillian Natale, Kathleen Studor, Kendall C, Lana Holliday, Lauren f Linley,
tuscoff Manolas Bulcus, Nicole and Dennis Henry, Nicole Guzman, Pink
s C. Shelley Brewer, Sherry D. Trista, Tuesday Woodworth, Zach Ignatowitz, Warren,
Beth McNally, John Comery, Jordan M, Jordan Taylor, Michael Beer,
(45:26):
Sarah C, SHAWNA Harden, Spooky Express, and Lydia Fiedler. Thank
you to Studio both Anne's newest Patreon supporters, Paula D,
Vicky h Michelle Juwannie Holly R. Caitlin w Gaale, C.
K Robinson, Melissa M, Kathy B Kate G. Virginia w
and p Astra, Amy B, Tara H. Patrick, p Leanne
j B, Christa R and case R. To support the investigation,
(45:50):
go to Patreon dot com, slash Studio both and This
episode included music by William Hellfire Labon and Radical Face,
with feature your music by Marika Hackman.
Speaker 12 (46:02):
He's a message. I'm not Rona, He's a rebel. I'm
Tauto waiting for you. You're my river, running high roun
(46:23):
Deep Bro.
Speaker 13 (46:27):
I follow, I follow you, Deep See Baby, I follow you,
I follow, I follow Dark Brown Honey, I follow you.
Speaker 12 (47:01):
M a run.
Speaker 5 (47:05):
And the Room.
Speaker 3 (47:08):
I followed, I follow Deep Sea Baby.
Speaker 13 (47:15):
I follow, I followed, I follow the Room and
Speaker 12 (47:24):
I follow
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