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May 16, 2025 45 mins
There’s a meme I’ve seen a few times. It says “You never know how toxic something is until you breathe fresher air.” I think it’s about how easy it is to get so completely wrapped up in a relationship, or a group dynamic, or a way of thinking that you stop seeing it for what it is. You become less and less tuned in to what’s normal. This happens a lot when you get two close friends together—two people who might not be likely to do any damage if left to themselves, but who become like fire and gunpowder together. Pushing each other further and further, with neither one willing to flinch. This can get even scarier when the two friends in question are teenagers with huge egos and a fascination with all things dark and edgy.

Join Katie and Whitney, plus the hosts of Last Podcast on the Left, Sinisterhood, and Scared to Death, on the very first CRIMEWAVE true crime cruise! Get your fan code now--tickets go on sale February 7: CrimeWaveatSea.com/CAMPFIRE

Sources:
LA Weekly, "Two Against One," Christine Pelisek. January 8, 2004.
Redlands Daily Facts: https://www.redlandsdailyfacts.com/2023/07/19/high-profile-killer-of-redlands-teen-granted-release-from-prison/
CBS News: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/best-friends-held-in-teens-death/
Court transcripts
LA Times Archives: "Teen's Crush Was Fatal," Lance Pugmire, January 2005
LMN's "I Killed My BFF," S3, E5
Investigation Discovery's "Mean Girl Murders," episode "Goth Girl Gone"

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