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November 8, 2025 65 mins
The Awful Death Of Elsie Sigel

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Episode 33 is the sad tale of Elsie Sigel, a pretty young girl from a prominent New York family, went to work as a missionary in Manhattan’s Chinatown. In the summer of 1909, police found Elsie’s body packed in a trunk in an apartment above a chop suey joint.

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Transcript

Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
On Wednesday night, June ninth, nineteen o nine, about seven o'clock,
George Anderson, a yard master for the West Shore Railroad Company,
was standing in the ferry house when two very excited
Chinamen entered. Both were dressed in American clothing, and one
of them was very good looking, well dressed. His companion

(00:26):
was of a more decided Chinese cast and was more
shabby in appearance. Anderson's attention was attracted to them by
their haste to board the ferryboat. In their hurry, they
both tried to pass the same ticket chopper at the
same time and became fastened between the iron railings of
the narrow path. Neither would give way to the other,

(00:49):
and yet it was impossible for them to get through.
Employees finally pushed both men back and made them pass
one at a time. As soon as they had passed
the ticket chopper, they ran at full speed into the
ferryboat and paced restlessly up and down until the boat
had left the New York shore. They remained together and

(01:12):
talked excitedly in low tones, and kept apart from the
other passengers. The description given by Anderson answers that of
Leon Lan and his companion Chong Sing true crime historian

(01:42):
presents Unsolved, a special edition of Yesterday's News exploring history's
greatest murder mysteries. In this episode, we'll take a look
at the newspaper accounts in the case of Elsie Seigel,
a pretty young girl from a prominent New York family
who I went to work at a missionary in Manhattan's Chinatown.

(02:03):
In the summer of nineteen oh nine, police find Elsie's
body packed in a trunk in an apartment above a
hardware store on Eighth Avenue. I want to add a
footnote here to the prologue and an alert about the
rest of this episode, to say that sometimes historical documents
contain language that defies modern social and cultural standards, especially

(02:26):
in regard to race and gender issues. In this episode,
as in others, I have tried to soften the language
when I can, But on other occasions, when, for instance,
the worldview of the people involved in the story would
be misrepresented by such editing, I have not that would,
I believe, be a disservice to history and to the story.

(02:50):
That being said, I will tell you now that I
am true crime historian Richard O. Jones, and I give
you the Chinatown Trunk Murder the awful death of Elsie Siegel,

(03:17):
New York City, June nineteenth, nineteen oh nine. Sun Liung,
the proprietor of a restaurant on the second floor of
seven thirty two eighth Avenue and has a room in
the front of the fourth floor of the building, had
been wondering what had become of his cousin, Leon Ling,

(03:37):
a waiter, and the latter's friend, Chung Singh, who was
a cook in the restaurant. The two men disappeared from
the restaurant on Sunday. Liung had knocked at the doors
of their adjoining rooms each morning after they first failed
to appear for work, but had received no answer. Yesterday afternoon,

(03:57):
six days later, the restaurant prietor, going past Ling's room,
detected a strong odor. Leung thought something must be wrong,
so he went out to look for a policeman on
the street. He met a customer of the restaurant, and
together they went to West forty seventh Street station. As
soon as Captain Post heard what Liu had to say,

(04:19):
he sent two officers around to the house. They took
with him a locksmith. It only took a short time
to get the door of Lyn's room open. Alongside the bed,
the detectives found a large rusty trunk which was bound
around with rope such as used on awning. It was

(04:39):
tied twice around at the front of the trunk, and
another band went around the trunk lengthwise. There were at
least fifteen knots in the rope. The detectives cut the
rope and this released the cover of the trunk, which
flew open, revealing the body of the victim. The body
had been forced down and the trunk until it had

(05:01):
rested upon the bottom, and the arms and legs were
tied down. The detectives lifted the body from the trunk
and found another part of the awning rope tied around
the neck. It was tied so firmly that the flesh
had been cut. The body was minus all clothing excepting
a shirtwaist and the underclothing. Coroner Julius Harburger was called

(05:25):
and expressed the opinion that the girl had been dead
at least six days, possibly a few days longer. The
police started at once to search the room in an
effort to obtain some clues. They found the door of
the room leading from Lying's room to that of Singh locked.
It appeared from the general arrangement of the rooms that

(05:46):
the two men had occupied them jointly. Singh's room, which
is the largest and extends across the rear of the
fourth floor, being used by both men as a kitchen.
Ling's room was arranged with dull oriental furnishings. Over the
bed was a canopy of flimsy cloth surmounted with red.

(06:06):
On the wall over the bed was a picture of
the Madonna. In a corner of the room was a
closet and a canopy made of red cloth. A picture
of Ling hung on one wall. On a small stand
near the bed, which was made as though it had
not been occupied, was some Chinese literature. In the room

(06:28):
of Chong Sing, the police found all manners of oriental decorations.
The coverlet on the bed had worked upon it a
dragon in fiery red. Hanging on the wall over the
bed was a picture of a Chinaman and a chromo
representation of a Chinese god. There were all sorts of
Chinese pamphlets on the two tables in the room. In

(06:49):
a wire frame that hung on one wall were a
score of photographs of Chinamen with white women and a
drawer of the dresser was a silver bracelet and half
a dozen and Chinese tales, on which were engraved the
initials E. L. S. There were several bibles, both in
English and Chinese on the dresser, as well as some

(07:10):
books on first lessons in English. After lifting the body
from the trunk and placing it upon the floor in
the rear of the room, the police found in the
bottom a card with the inscription the high Rollers. The
police made a thorough search of the two rooms, trying
to find the missing articles of attire of the murdered girl.

(07:32):
The police could not find the girl's stockings, shoes, or skirts.
The best description the police could give of the murdered
girl was that she was five feet in height, about
twenty two years old, with dark hair. From cards, the
police concluded that Ling, under the name of William L.

(07:53):
Leon had been involved in some sort of love affair.
They found a note written in a man's hand, I
hope you do not get mad with me, because all
the troubles start from me. We hope someday that happiness
comes to us both. It appeared as though the note
had never been sent. There was another note which bore

(08:14):
the name of Elsie, and Captain Carey, who took personal
supervision of the investigation of the murder, told reporter that
this young woman seems to have figured in the life
of Ling. There was nothing to indicate Elsie's last name.
The first indication that Leon or Lying was acquainted with
Miss Elsie Seigel the Missionary, was when the detectives went

(08:38):
up on a line of investigation after finding a letter
signed by Henry J. Burnell, a guest of the Hotel
Bristol at one for two West forty ninth Street. This
letter read, William L. Leon, your note received. Thank you
for the same, but I cannot go to dinner Friday
evening as I have an engagement with some friends. Will

(09:01):
be pleased to go any day next week if agreeable
to you, except Tuesday night. Yours, truly, Henry G. Burnell.
The detectives hurried around to the Bristol and found Burnell,
who told them that he had known Ling under the
name of Leon for several months. He said that he
met Ling in a Chinese restaurant on sixth Avenue near

(09:24):
twenty eighth Street. Burnell said, Ling told me some time
ago that he knew a miss Seigel, who was a
missionary in Chinatown. He told me she was a very
fine young woman, deeply interested in converting Chinaman. He said
that he had gone over with her to Chinatown and
had tried to make her work there easier for her.

(09:46):
I myself have been interested in this sort of missionary work,
and in the course of this I learned to know
Ling very well. He was a very sincere young fellow
and appeared to me to be most religious. He told
me that he accepted Christianity. He was thirty years old.
I should say I received a note from him asking

(10:06):
me to go out to dinner a week ago Friday.
It was to be a small affair. After sending my
note to him, I did not see Lang again. After
this interview. The police communicated with a rescue mission on
Mott Street and learned that Miss Segel, of whom Burnell
spoke was the daughter of Paul Seigel. They then communicated

(10:28):
with Seigel and he hurried to police headquarters. He was
much disturbed, but did not hesitate to go with Detective
Griffin to the sinister looking apartment of the Chinaman up
on the dingy top floor of the eighth Avenue. Scene
of the murder. All mister Seigel would say after the
gold plated bangle shown him was I am quite sure

(10:50):
that this never belonged to my daughter. It looks to
me more like one used by someone belonging in a school.
I imagine that the initials indicate this. My daughter has
not attended school for some years. I cannot say that
the clothing on this young woman's body was that of
my daughter, though I am very sure it was not hers.

(11:11):
I have no idea where my daughter could have gone
after she left home on June tenth, but inasmuch as
we received a telegram from Washington, it must be that
she went there on missionary work. Why she did not
communicate with us after her telegram, which said she would
be home last Sunday, I cannot understand. Seigel viewed the body,

(11:33):
which was in a bad condition, but could not distinguish
the features. The police, not satisfied that the victim of
the crime was not Seigel's daughter, sent detectives at midnight
to Seigel's home with the Bangals. Earlier in the evening,
a detective had been informed by missus Seigel that in
her daughter's room was a photograph of Leon Ling, in

(11:56):
whose room the body was found. Missus Seigel knew of
her daughter's work in Chinatown, but had never heard her
daughter speak of Leon Ling. The police figured that if
the victim of the murder was by any chance, Miss Seigel,
there would have been plenty of time for her to
have returned from Washington and to have gone to the

(12:16):
home of the Chinaman on Sunday, upon which day Coroner
Harberger thinks the crime was committed. The police seemed certain
that if Miss Seigel went to the Chinaman's home, it
was in the pursuit of her work as a missionary.
Captain Carey told a reporter late last night that he
had found a plain, empty envelope and the dresser drawer

(12:38):
in the room in which the body was found. It
was addressed to Miss Elizabeth Seigel, two of nine Wadsworth Avenue,
New York City. Captain Carey said that he had come
across several love letters written by someone who had signed
herself Elsie, but he would not make them public. At
the Sigal home in Wadsworth Avenue, a reporter was met

(13:02):
at the door by a young man who said he
was Miss Seigle's brother. He is about nineteen years old.
According to the brother, miss Sigel left home a week
ago Wednesday. He said she started for Washington when she
left home. Asked if missus Sigle, his mother was at home,
the boy said she was not, that she was quote

(13:22):
in the hospital unquote. But when a woman passed middle age,
attired in black, came downstairs, almost directly behind the lad
he turned and said quickly, why here's mother now. Missus
Sigole refused to open her lips and stood listening in
silence to the suns. Speaking to the reporter, the reporter asked,

(13:44):
you received a telegram from miss Sigel in Washington. Yes,
she wired, I have arrived safely. Asked if he knew
a Chinaman who answered the description of Leon Ling, the
Sigle boy said he did. That the chinaman used to
keep restaurant at Fort George, and the Saigol family, like
others in the neighborhood, had gone there for a Chinese

(14:06):
dinner occasionally. The young man said his mother, several years
ago was interested in mission work in Chinatown, and that
recently his sister Elsie was also interested in that work.
The Central officeman visited the Sigle home again and again
during the night. Finally, after the mother and Reginald the

(14:27):
son had been left alone, she was heard to exclaim
my God, Elsie. Then she swooned. It was some time
before she recovered consciousness. Sun Liung, the restaurant owner, was
taken to the West forty seventh Street station, but after
being questioned, he stepped out and disappeared. The police are

(14:50):
still looking for him. The police searched Liun's room and
found in it a hat that had apparently belonged to
a very young girl. This was later shown to mister
s Cigle, but he said that it was not his daughters.
It was evidently worn by a girl not over ten
or twelve years of age. It was a sailor hat.
For the first time, the police brought into use their

(15:12):
Bertillion photographic apparatus to take pictures of the scene of
the crime and of the victims. They used flashlights to
take the pictures, and the puffs of powder from these
flashes curled into the street, where a tremendous throng crowded
all through the night, attracted by the gruesome crime. At times,

(15:33):
the crowds were so great that the police had to
establish lines to hold them back and permit the street
cars to run through June twentieth, nineteen oh nine, all

(16:00):
doubt that may have existed in the minds of police
as to the identity of the murdered girl was removed
when the relatives of Miss Segel called at the morgue.
Reginald Seigel, a brother of the murdered girl, and an
aunt both declared that they were positive the victim was
Miss Segel, the missionary worker. To strengthen the identification, the

(16:24):
police learned that the little gold plated spangle which the
murder girl wore as a lockett, and which was hanging
around her neck by a gold chain when her body
was found, was given her by her cousin, Miss Mabel Segel,
who lives with her grandmother at one thousand forty Simpson Street.
The bronx on this shell, like lockett, was the inscription PCs.

(16:48):
With the identification made certain, the police came upon developments
that showed that Miss Segel was infatuated with Leon Ling.
They found a packet of letters in Ling's room, who
all tied up in cord written by Miss Seigel. Most
of them breathed deep love for the Chinaman who Miss
Segel's friends had thought was merely a sincere student of

(17:11):
Miss Seigel's missionary work. The police were unable to draw
any information from the murdered girl's father that helped them
in their investigation, but by acquaintances of the family, they
were told that mister Seigel knew of his daughter's love
for the Chinaman, and that mister Seigel sternly frowned upon
the attachment. Captain Carey, in charge of the investigation, did

(17:35):
not hesitate to express surprise over the failure of mister
Seigel to aid the police in their work. Mister Seigel
did not go to police headquarters during the day. He
left home early in the morning, and it was given
out at his home that he had left for Washington.
Captain Carey admitted that he was anxious to have a

(17:57):
talk with mister Segel to clear up some point points
of doubt, but that he had been unable to reach
him after mister Seigel left the scene of the murder
on Friday night. The conclusion that the murder was committed
on Wednesday, June ninth, is drawn from information given the
police by the victim's relatives. Miss Seigel left home about

(18:20):
ten o'clock that morning, saying she was going to visit
her grandmother, missus Liila Seigel, widow of the General Franz Seigel,
in the Bronx. The night before, a letter had come
from Miss Seigel's home from her grandmother asking her to
make a visit the following day. Miss Seigel told her
mother that she would spend the day with her grandmother

(18:41):
and return that night. When nine o'clock came that night
and Miss Seigel did not return, Miss Mabel Sigel, the cousin,
telephoned to her grandmother's home and learned that Miss Elsie
Seigel had not been there. Late that night, according to
mister Seigel's statement to the police given at the scene
of the mar or, on Friday, there came the telegram

(19:02):
from Washington, signed ECS, saying we'll be home Sunday evening.
Don't worry. No further word was heard of Miss Seigel.
The police now think that the telegram was not sent
by her, but that it was sent as a subterfuse
by someone in the confidence of Leon Ling to cover
up the tracks of the murderer. Captain Carey reasons that

(19:25):
Miss Sigel may have met Leon Ling in the neighborhood
of her home on that Wednesday evening, and that he
induced her to go to the Oriental Den on Eighth Avenue.
Ling frequently went to Miss Seigel's home, and often when
her father was at home, he would wait for her
at the subway entrance at one hundred and eighty first
Street in Saint Nicholas Avenue, and that they would go

(19:45):
downtown together. Police learned that the mission worker, Miss Segel
and Leon Ling first met four years ago when Leon
Ling kept a Chop Suey restaurant on Amsterdam Avenue near
one hundred and ninety first Street. Miss Seigel, then a
vivacious girl of eighteen, had been going around with her mother,

(20:07):
who devoted much of her time to missionary activities in Chinatown.
In the pursuit of her work, missus Seigel visited Chinese restaurants.
Exactly when Miss Seigel gave her heart to the Chinaman.
The police do not know. They have been told that
Leon Ling, in the course of time, went to churches
with missus Seigel and her daughter. Then he began calling

(20:31):
at the girl's home. Mister Seigel, the girl's father, never
was strongly interested in the Chinese missionary work, and he
did not regard with any sense of satisfaction the visits
made by the Chinaman. Captain Carey had been told that
there were some severe calls in the Seigol household. Missus Seigel,

(20:52):
it is said, sided with her daughter, believing implicitly in
Leon Ling, and feeling that her daughter was perfectly safe
in her company. Leon Ling was always a smartly attired
young fellow, and he wore an elaborate display of jewelry.
He made money with his restaurant, and police have been
told used to play fan Tan with considerable success, thus

(21:16):
adding to his income. All of his money went, the
police say, and having a good time. He kept his vices,
whatever they were, from Miss Seigel, and she regarded him
as a young man of steady habits and a devout
worshiper of the Christianity. That she was so diligently teaching him.
His dual life was known to his intimates in Chinatown,

(21:40):
but they refrained from telling Miss Seigel of it. So
Miss Seigele welcomed his sobriety, and in time, so it
develops from the letters, the police have found she fell
in love with him. There were more than seventy five
letters in the dresser of Leon Ling's room, and of
these twenty five were written by Miss Segel. Most of

(22:02):
them were signed Elsie, but there were quite a few
that had her name written out in full. The most
the police would say of these letters yesterday, for they
would not permit any of them to be seen, was
that they teemed with love. When I say they were
rich in terms of endearment, I have told you all

(22:22):
that I can at this time, explained Captain Carey. The
letters extend back for a period of two years. While
the police have reason to believe from the talks they
have had with acquaintances of the Seigel family, that Miss
Segel was practically engaged to marry Leon Ling, there is
nothing in the love missives that bore this out. Besides

(22:45):
the letters written by Miss Seigel, there were ten signed Helen,
and a large number with various other signatures. The police
are maintaining the utmost secrecy concerning all of these, as
they say it is possible that new lines of investigation
may be opened up through some of them. The only
letter that became public yesterday was given out through the

(23:08):
District Attorney's office. It was signed Helen and read you
seem to be growing cold to me. Just think of
the sacrifice I have made for you, my family, my friends,
for God's sake. Don't desert me. The tone of the
letters indicate the police say that Leon Ling was much

(23:29):
of a Chinese Don Juan, and that he seemed to
have broken hearts with the utmost facility. The police sought
out Miss Mabel Segel and from her obtained much information
of Leon Ling's visits to the Sigel home. I always
feared there would be some trouble over this, she said.

(23:49):
Elsie Seigel was a girl of the highest motives. She
liked Leon Ling, but I never knew that she was
in love with him. He used to call quite off
at her home, and she often went with him to Chinatown,
but the visits were always, as far as I knew,
in connection with Miss Seigel's missionary work. Elsie was a

(24:11):
girl of a most amiable disposition and was not inclined
to think wrong of anyone. Yet there were some of
us who feared that someday trouble might come from her
trips with Leon Ling. The pen that Elsie wore was
given me by a friend of mine who graduated from
Packard's Commercial School. Elsie fancied it, and I let her

(24:32):
wear it until she came to regard it as her own.
The last that Elsie's folks saw of her was when
she left home on Wednesday morning, June ninth. She had
received a short letter from her grandmother saying, missus Seigal,
the grandmother would like to spend Wednesday with her. The
night before that, Elsie had been to Chinatown on her
mission work and had returned home very early. She was alone.

(24:56):
When Elsie left the house. She was dressed in a
gray tailor made suit. It was a stormy day, and
she had on a pair of old shoes and her rubbers.
She wore a leg horn hat trimmed with pink ribbon
and pink roses. The detectives insinuated that she went out
that morning to meet Leon Ling, but as she had
on her old clothes, I don't think that was so.

(25:18):
It was somewhere around ten o'clock when she left the apartment.
Her mother asked her to order some meat from the
butcher for dinner that night. Yes, put in Reginald Sigel,
who was listening to the interview. I remember that Elsie
ordered some corned beef and cabbage. That's right, acquiesced Miss Segel. Well.
When she did not get home by nine o'clock that night,

(25:40):
I went out and telephoned to missus Sigel, her grandmother,
and was surprised to find that Elsie had never called there.
I have an idea, went on Miss Seigel, that Leon
Ling may have met her on the street and induced
her to go downtown with him. He used to hang
around the street near the apartment house sometimes and she
would frequently meet him that way. I will say this,

(26:01):
declared Miss Seigel, in conclusion that if Elsie was really
in love with Leon Ling, she kept it from me,
and I was one of her closest confidants. The detectives
went to all the butcher shops in the neighborhood, but
could find in none of them anyone who recalled having
seen Miss Segel the day she disappeared from home. They

(26:22):
did find at a drug store near Saint Nicholas Avenue
in one hundred and eighty third Street that Miss Seigel often
called there and used the telephone to call up residents
in Chinatown. The clerks in the store thought, they said
that she was doing this in pursuit of her mission work,
but they recalled that she had on many occasions called
up the Port Arthur restaurant in Chinatown, where mission work

(26:45):
is not carried on. In their investigation in the apartment
house in which the Seigel family live, the detectives were
informed that one night, about three weeks ago, Leon Ling
called and when Miss Segel's father refused to allow him
to enter the apartment, the Chinaman became boisterous. He pounded
on the door, they were told after it had had

(27:07):
been slammed in his face, and loudly demanded that he
be admitted. Finally, the door was opened and Leon Ling
went in. Miss Seigel was out and Ling soon left.
Detectives early in the day took Missus Ye Kim, the
white wife of a Chinese waiter who worked at Sun
Leung's restaurant, to police headquarters, and she told them that

(27:31):
she believed Miss Seigel had been murdered from a motive
of jealousy. She said that Miss Seigel called occasionally with
Leon Ling at a laundry at three O nine West
forty second Street, kept by Hops Sung. There, miss Seigel
met a young white woman known as Josie. Missus Kim said,

(27:51):
and the two women were warm friends. Missus Kim suggested
that Josie ought to be able to aid them in
finding Leon Ling, but she declared when they found her
that she knew nothing of the chinaman's flight. The young
woman explained that she had been the teacher of a
Sunday school in Chinatown and there had become acquainted with

(28:12):
Miss Segel. She insisted that she was unaware of any
love affair between Leon Ling and Miss Segel. Coroner Harberger
was indignant that none of the Seigel family would appear
at the inquest. He declared that from what he had observed,
there seemed to be a disposition on the part of
the family to ignore the body at the morgue. Franz Seigel,

(28:37):
the youngest son of General Segel, called yesterday afternoon at
the Seigel home and declared to a reporter that he
would do everything he could to help the police in
their investigation. I counseled both missus Seigel and her daughter
Elsie to have nothing to do with those Chinamen, said
mister Seigel. I was always opposed to their going into

(28:58):
that missionary work. It was daydangerous, and I told them so.
At one ten o'clock this morning, Miss Mabel E Seigel,
the cousin and chm of the dead girl, visited the morgue,
accompanied by a young man who declined to give his name.
Miss Seigel said she called to look at the body
of Elsie's Sigel. After viewing it for the part of

(29:20):
a minute, the girl walked away. Is this the body
of your cousin? She was asked. The teeth look like
Elsie's teeth, and there are other things which lead me
to believe this is Elsie's body, but I can't tell positively.
Miss Seigel said, I should like to see the clothing.
When the various articles of wearing apparel were shown her,

(29:42):
Miss Sigel burst into tears and exclaimed, yes, those clothes
are Elsie's. There is no doubt in my mind now
but that this is Elsie's body.

Speaker 2 (30:08):
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Speaker 1 (30:31):
June twenty first, nineteen oh nine, Captain Carey of the
Homicide Bureau expressed the opinion yesterday that Miss Sigel had
been killed because of a jealousy between Leon Ling and
to Gain, manager of the Port Arthur restaurant at ten
Mott Street. Gain, who was arrested Saturday night after it

(30:53):
had developed that Miss Sigel had spent several evenings in
his restaurant, made a fuller statement to Captain Carey yes
yesterday in which he told of the feelings between himself
and Leon Ling. Captain Carey told a reporter that Gain
admitted that he was in love with miss Segel. He
reiterated his assertion of Saturday night that Leon Ling was

(31:15):
angry because Miss Segel had called at his restaurant. Once
Leon Ling and I had a quarrel over that girl,
Gain said, Ling thought that I ought to talk to her.
He told me that he loved her and that I
must not think that I could have her for myself.
I told Ling that I had as much right to
her as he had. Well. Ling said to me, you

(31:37):
want to look out. I only laughed at him. I
guess it was three months ago that he warned me
not to see the girl anymore. I saw miss Segel
after that. I don't know exactly when it was that
I saw her the last time. About two weeks ago,
a letter came to me warning me that I had
better stop seeing miss Segel or that both of us
would be killed and cut into pieces. I'm sure the

(32:00):
letter was written by Leon Ling, although there was no
name signed to it. I did not see Miss Segel
to tell her about that. She never came to see
me after I got the letter. I didn't see Leon
Ling either. The police are inclined to doubt Gain's word
as to his not having seen miss Segel after receiving
the threatening letter. They have been told that miss Segel

(32:22):
visited the Port Arthur restaurant on the Sunday before she
disappeared from home. The police theory is that Leon Ling,
furious over the refusal of miss Segel to stop receiving
the attentions of Chew Gain, lured her into his den
on Eighth Avenue and there killed her. Captain Gavin of
the Elizabeth Street Police Station and three detectives ransacked the

(32:46):
living rooms in CHW Gain's Mott Street department last night
and found in a desk a number of letters that
they say were written by miss Segel to chew Gain.
The letters were taken to police headquarters, and there it
was said they were found to be filled with terms
of endearment. So far as the detectives have been able
to learn, miss Seigel never went to Leon Ling's apartment

(33:08):
before the visit that ended in her murder. They have
not found anyone who will admit that a white woman
was ever seen to go into Ling's rooms. It would, however,
have been an easy matter for miss Segel or anyone
else to have reached Ling's apartments without attracting any particular attention.
The rooms are on the fourth floor of the eighth

(33:29):
Avenue Place, and on the second floor is the Chopsui
restaurant conducted by Lee Yong Singh. Patrons of the restaurant
used to go up and down the stairs at all
hours of the day and night. Mister Seigel, the girl's father,
was again visited by detectives early this morning and was
a reluctant to go to the morgue and again look

(33:51):
at the body. The detectives finally persuaded him to go,
and he visited the morgue in the afternoon, mister Seigel
told the detectives on the way to the morgue that
his daughter had a bad tooth on the left side
of her lower jaw, and he could tell by looking
at the dead girl's teeth whether she was his daughter.

(34:11):
Mister Seigel viewed the body carefully, then stepped back and remarked, softly,
that's Elsie. The girl's father greatly affected, half fainted and
was supported by one of the detectives. Mister Seigel was
overcome with emotion as he left the police station. I
cannot bear this, he cried, as he took his brother's arm.

(34:35):
It's terrible. I am still affirm in my belief that
Elsie was not in love with any Chinaman, he declared brokenly.
She never told me that she liked Leon Ling, and
I do not think she did. She was a girl
of good habits, and whatever trips she made to Chinatown
were always in pursuit of her missionary work. How she

(34:57):
came to be in that din of a Chinaman on
eighth I cannot understand. She must have been lured there
by some idea that she was needed in her work
as a missionary. If I could get my hands on
those chinamen, you police would have no chance to arrest them.
The father was utterly overwhelmed with grief when he reached
home and the family physician called to administer to him.

(35:21):
Mister Seigel was fearful that word of the identification might
be communicated to his wife, who on Saturday was taken
to a sanitarium at Waterbury, Connecticut. For two weeks, Missus
Sigel has been a nervous wreck because of severe illness.
Her condition was made worse when her daughter disappeared. When

(35:41):
she was taken away on Saturday, Missus Sigel was in
a pitiable condition. The family expressed the fear yesterday that
the shock she experienced last Friday when detectives showed her
the locket found on the dead girl, had entirely dethroned
her reason. Missus Margaret Segel, mother of miss Mabel Sigel,

(36:01):
told a reporter that the actions of the murdered girl's
father when he saw her body on Friday night had
been misconstrued by the police. The police have made it
appear that mister Seigel was indifferent, said Missus Seigel. That
is far from the truth. It is necessary only to
know what he and the other members of the family
passed through after the disappearance of Elsie to understand that

(36:24):
he was deeply concerned over the whole tragedy, but did
not wish to make a mistake and make a wrong identification.
From the night Elsie disappeared, she continued her mother hardly
slept a wink. Mister Segele, in watching over her, became
a nervous wreck himself, but he kept his fears from
his wife. They tried to comfort each other, but the

(36:46):
terrible dread and fear gnawed at their hearts. It was
the day after Elsie disappeared, I think that mister Sigele
went to the police and asked them to send out
a secret or confidential alarm for his daughter. The police
worked every day on her disappearance after that, and each
day mister Sigle would go to them and ask if
any word had come from his daughter. In his terrible anxiety,

(37:11):
he waited until he received a telephone message last Friday
night to go to police headquarters. He dreaded going there
for he felt that there might be some ill news.
When he was told that a body had been found
in the chinaman's apartment and that it was thought that
the dead girl was his daughter. Mister sigele fainted and

(37:32):
this tortured condition of mind. He went out to the
room where the body was laid out on the floor.
Mister Sigel told me that everything became blank as he
looked at the form of the dead girl. He tried
to make out the features of Elsie, but could distinguish nothing.
The police showed him the locket the dead girl had worn.
He had never seen it before. This convinced mister Sigel

(37:53):
that the murdered girl was not his daughter. He left,
still dazed, but feeling that Elsie was not the victim.
This is a terrible outcome of Elsie's missionary work. Missus
Seigel went on. I never approved of it, and her
father did not. She assured her father that she was
interested in Leon Ling only as a student in her

(38:14):
work of christianizing Chinaman. He told her to be careful.
I do not know if Elsie was ever engaged to
Mary Lang. She did not speak of it to any
member of the family so far as I know. When
she went out with Leing, I understand that her mother
was always with her. The police received messages from a
dozen cities yesterday saying that Chinaman, seeming to answer the

(38:37):
descriptions of Leon Ling and Chong sing had been arrested.
In each instance, the police were asked to hold the
prisoners until the police here can take up ends in
those cities. In some cases the descriptions sent by police
did not tally with those sent out from police headquarters
on Saturday, but there were some strong points of resemblance.

(38:58):
It shows, said Captain Carry, that the police all over
the country are interested in running down the men we want.
There is no lack of activity.

Speaker 3 (39:20):
Enjoy ad free listening at the safehouse. Dubbadubbadubba dot Patreon
dot com, slash True crime historian.

Speaker 1 (39:33):
Amsterdam, New York, June twenty one. Chong Singh, who formerly
occupied a room adjoining that of Leon Ling in New
York where the body of Elsie Seigel was found last week,
was arrested at West Galway. He denies, however, that he
knows anything about the murder, although he was acquainted with

(39:54):
Elsie Seigel and knew of her work among the Chinese.
Hienner asserts that he had seen Leon Ling rarely for
several months preceding the murder. For at least three weeks.
He says he has had no knowledge whatever of his whereabouts,
although having a room next to Lying's. He said that
his night work as a waiter kept him away a

(40:17):
great deal, and that often he did not sleep in
his room. When Ling's association with the girl was suggested,
Chong sing would shake his head and say emphatically, she's
not my friend. She is his friend. Why should I
be in jail. The Chinaman's arrest came about through his employer,
Harvey Kennedy, a well to do New Yorker and summer

(40:40):
resident of West Galway. He noticed Chong Singh's likeness to
publish photographs of him in New York newspapers and notified
the police. Chong Sing readily admitted his name and identity,
but from the first stubbornly maintained that he was ignorant
of any detail of the murder.

Speaker 3 (41:03):
Enjoy ad free listening at the safe house dubbadubbadubba dot
Patreon dot com, slash true crime historian.

Speaker 1 (41:15):
The detectives working on the case in New York were
surprised yesterday afternoon when at four o'clock Sun Liung, proprietor
of the Eighth Street Chop Suey Establishment, who disappeared on
Friday after asking the police to break into Leon Ling's room,
calmly shambled into police headquarters. The police had been searching

(41:36):
everywhere in Chinatown for Sun Liung and had given him
up as safely hidden away. They wanted to ask him
some questions concerning Leon Ling and Chong Sing. They have
felt that Sun Liung could throw some light on how
the murdered girl came to be in Leon Ling's apartment.
Sun Leung, who speaks English, quite brokenly walked into the

(41:59):
detective room and told the doorman who he was, adding
that he wanted to know if the police cared to
speak to him. He was taken upstairs and for three
hours was put through a searching inquisition. What the chinaman
told police was not divulged. After detectives had questioned him
until they were tired, the police sent him to Coroner Harberger,

(42:20):
who held him on one thousand dollars bail for the inquest.
The police theory that Elsie Seigel was murdered because of
jealousy between Leon Ling and Chew Gain, proprietor of the
Port Arthur restaurant, was strengthened yesterday when they came upon
a letter in another search of chw Gain's room. The
letter was written to chew Gain by Miss Seigel and

(42:42):
told him that Leon Ling was very angry because he
had learned that she had gone against leon Ling's wishes
to chew Gain's restaurant. A perusal of the accumulation of
love letters written by Miss Siegel to both leon Ling
and chw Gain indicated The police said that the young
mission worker had grown tired of Leon Ling and had

(43:03):
transferred her affections to the Mott Street restaurant keeper. The
letters to leon Ling cover a period of about eighteen
months up to within a week or so before the murder.
Those written to chew Gain extend from about seven months ago,
and the police say there is one letter that was
sent to the Mott Street Chinaman two days before the

(43:24):
girl was strangled to death. In the recent miss of
sent chow Gain, the young mission worker used phrases of
deep endearment. One of the letters which Miss Siegel wrote
Leon Ling a week or so before she was murdered,
told of her having gone to see Chu Gain at
his restaurant and of having taken some drink that made
her ill. Leon Ling, after receiving this letter, sent the

(43:47):
anonymous letter to Chew Gain, the police believe in which
the Mott Street chinaman was told that if he did
not cease his attentions to Miss Seigel, both he and
the girl would be murdered. It developed in the investigation
yesterday that Leon Ling, Chong Sing, Liung Sing, and all
of the other Chinamen who thus far figure in the tragedy,

(44:09):
with the exception of Chu Gain, are affiliated with a
Chinese Masonic society. Chu Gain belongs to another sort of organization.
This police say accounts for the readiness with which Chu
Gain has talked concerning Leon Ling and his apparent effort
to fasten the crime of murder upon the fugitive Chinaman.

(44:31):
It appears from what police have learned that bitter feeling
has existed for years between Chiu Gain and Leon Ling.
It was maddening to Leon Ling, the police say, when
he learned that Miss Siegel had evinced a fondness for
his rival. Miss Segel's father, mister Paul Seigel, in a
talk with reporters yesterday, confirmed the police theory that his

(44:55):
daughter was killed because of jealousy between Leon Ling and
Chu Gain. Now that I am convinced that it was
my Elsie who was the victim of this murder. I
am able to look back over the past and recall
incidents that account for the crime, said mister Seigel. I
know it must have been jealousy between the two Chinamen.

(45:15):
I knew that Elsie cared for Leon Ling. She spoke
to me about him several times, hinting that she would
like to marry him. I told her that it was
bad enough to have a chinaman calling at the house,
but that I would never consent to marriage with one
of them. Elsie was very careful after that about what
she said to me about Leon Ling or any other Chinaman.

(45:37):
I have learned that there was a party at my
house the night before Elsie disappeared, and that half a
dozen Chinamen were in the gathering. Leon Ling appeared at
the door under the influence of liquor. He called Elsie
aside and told her that if she had anything to
do with Chu Gain, he would kill her and cut
chew Gain up into small pieces. Elsie had no fear

(46:00):
of him and told leon Ling not to talk that way.
She would not let him in, and he left in
an angry mood. All over the country. The police were
engaged yesterday in detaining Chinamen who resembled Leon Ling and
Chong Sing, the two suspects and the Elsie Seigeo murder.

(46:20):
From break to dark, the telegraph wires brought messages telling
of arrests in different cities. In some instances, the police
allowed their perplexed prisoners to go after brief questioning, but
in other cases chinamen were locked up until the police
here could decide whether or not the suspects were the
men they wanted. The day's developments in this branch of

(46:42):
police activity made it quite clear that it was not
safe to be a Chinaman hurrying anywhere with anything like
a near resemblance to either Leon Ling or Chong Sing.

(47:08):
June twenty third, nineteen o nine, after an ordeal of
thirty hours of relentless cross examination, during which he was
allowed to have not one moment's rest, Chong Sing, the
Chinaman who was arrested on Monday at Amsterdam, New York,
broke down in District Attorney Jerome's office yesterday afternoon and

(47:31):
made a confession telling how miss Elsie Seigel, the girl
missionary among the Chinese here, was put to death in
the room of Leon Ling above the Chop Suey restaurant
at seven eighty two Eighth Avenue. Chong Sing insisted he
had no part in the crime. He told Assistant District

(47:51):
Attorney Theodore H. Ward and Captain Arthur Carey of the
Police Homicide Bureau that Leon Ling was the murderer. The
chinaman told how he had seen Elsie Seigel struggling on
the bed in Leon Ling's room to keep him from
stifling her cries. He admitted that he saw the girl
soon after that, lying still as though dead, but he

(48:15):
was always careful to say that he was not in
the room at the moment she was killed. The cause
of the murder, he said, was jealousy between Leon Ling
and Chu Gain, the Motte Street restaurant keeper. While police
have no doubt that Chang Singh's story, in so far
as it fixes the actual murder upon Leon King, is true,

(48:37):
they are not satisfied that the prisoner spoke the exact
truth when he declared that he himself had no hand
in the crime. The weird recital of the murder, as
given by the Chinaman was the most dramatic and remarkable
ever heard in the criminal court. Building. Chong tried hard,
it was evident, to maintain an outward calm. He succeeded

(48:59):
in doing so during most of the onslaught, but there
were times when he shook violently, as though in great fear.
Sometimes during the cross questioning, the Chinaman wore an uncanny,
sickly smile upon his sallow face. At other moments, when
closely pressed, he would pause, slowly, draw a cigarette from
his clothes, light it, and as he whiffed the smoke

(49:22):
into the air, give deliberate answers to his interrogators. Chong
Sing declared that Chu Gain and Leon Ling had often
fought over Elsie Seigel. They came to blows once more
than once. He said, they always fight, fight, fight. Leon
tells me that he hates Chew Gain. Chu Gain tells

(49:42):
me he hates Leon Ling, And then Chong Sing broke
into a squeaky laugh. With a perfectly straight face. He
told the inspector that he had not seen Leon Ling
in three, four or five weeks, and then just a
little later informed another inspector that he had been with
Leon l of the day before the murder. Chw Gain

(50:03):
was taken from his cell in the tombs this morning
and put through an examination before Coroner Harberger. Chu Gain,
unlike Chong Sing, seemed to be entirely at ease and
appeared to have nothing to withhold, except that he was
rather secretive about his alleged love affair with Miss Seigel.
He had known Miss Segel and her mother very well,

(50:24):
he said, his acquaintance beginning with a visit they made
about two years ago at his Mott Street restaurant. He
used to see them every week, he said. Gain asserted
that he had got religion through the Sigel girl's effort,
and proudly declared that he goes to church. The last
time he saw Elsie Seigel, he said, was the Sunday

(50:45):
before the murder. He would not say that he was
in love with her, but admitted that Miss Segel had
written love missives to him. The last letter he received
from her was on June eighth. Chew. Gain told of
Miss Seigel's father having called on him two days after
his daughter disappeared from home. Gain went with mister Sigel

(51:06):
to police headquarters. I used to see the Sigles often,
continued Gain. I've visited them maybe every week and stay
an hour. Miss Elsie and me we talk of stories
and just that nothing much. Did you hear that Leon
Ling was engaged to Miss Elsie? Asked the coroner. Elsie
never told me, was the reply, didn't Elsie make love

(51:30):
to you? No? Was a hesitating reply. That is not
true except by letter. Gaine assured the coroner that he
would not run away if he were allowed liberty, and
promised that he would do all he could to help
the police find Leon Ling. Coroner Harburger was so much
impressed with Gain that he reduced the chinaman's bail from

(51:50):
one thousand to one hundred dollars, and in half an
hour one of Gain's friends appeared with the bail and
the Mott Street chinaman was released. June twenty fourth, nineteen

(52:17):
oh nine, in another hard day under the merciless third degree,
Chong Sing switched yesterday from the tale he related on
Tuesday and admitted that he knew Elsie Seigel was dead
when he went into Leon Ling's room shortly after twelve
thirty o'clock on the day of the murder. He blandly

(52:38):
declared that he had lied when he told his inquisitors
on Tuesday that he had looked through a keyhole and
had seen leon Ling stuff a handkerchief into the struggling
girl's mouth. The truth of it was so. Chong now
says that leon Ling had called him into the room
where the dead girl's body lay upon the bed, and

(52:58):
that it was not until he went in that he
knew that anything had happened. He was asleep, the chinaman declared,
when Leon Ling aroused him and asked him to help
pack the dead girl in the trunk. Chong gave this
version after he had been told by police that it
would have been impossible for him to have witnessed all
he pretended to have seen while looking through a keyhole.

(53:21):
He was also informed that the police had investigated and
found that there was no transom over the door between
the rooms occupied by himself and Leon Ling, and that
his story of having viewed the struggles of the girl
by standing on a chair and peering over any transom
must have been a myth. Chong looked at his interrogator
stupidly when they pounded at him with this logic, and

(53:43):
finally he told them that he would reveal the truth.
It was then that he completely changed his recital of
the murder and admitted that he had told falsehoods. When
first put under the third degree, Chong Singh said that
he was asleep when Leon Ling came to his room
and knocked at the door at about twelve thirty that day.

(54:04):
He got up and went into Leon's room and saw
Elsie on the bed. She had a handkerchief over her face.
He asked Leon what the handkerchief was for, and Leon
said it was because Elsie bit her tongue. Leon said
that Elsie was dead because she bit her tongue, and
that he was scared. He wanted me to go help
him put Elsie in the trunk. I go over to

(54:26):
the bed where Elsie is lying and I touch her
hand to see if it are cold. Elsie's hand were warm.
Leon had the bed clothes up over Elsie and I
tell Leon I do not want to help him. Go
put Elsie in the trunk. I go out of the room,
and Leon called me to come back, but I am scared,
and I go to my room and then I get
my satchel and put my clothes in it, and I

(54:47):
hurried from that place. Didn't you help put Elsie in
the trunk, demanded Captain Carrey. No help, Leon replied. Chong
He's mad with me because I didn't help him, but
I go out. Chong told of a visit he made
at the Sigle home a few days before Elsie Seigel
was slain. Leon Ling was there and after a time

(55:09):
Chu Gain arrived. Leon and chu Gain had a quarrel,
Leon saying that he did not want the Mott Street
chinaman to call on miss Segel. Chu Gain would not leave,
and Leon, in a fit of anger, walked out, declaring
that he would get even The hallucination of seeing the
missing Leon continued yesterday all over the United States, with

(55:32):
the result that many innocent chinamen unfortunate enough to wear
American dress underwent embarrassing inquisitions without any new clue to
the fugitive being obtained. June twenty seventh, nineteen o nine,

(56:02):
Leon Ling drove around in a cab with the dead
body of Elsie Seigel the day of June ninth, when
she was slain. According to information obtained yesterday by Detective
Miller of the Central Office, the cabman James h Alsted,
brought Leon Ling in the trunk from Newark to the

(56:23):
Eighth Avenue. Murder den fully identified the trunk at police
headquarters and also a photograph of Leon Ling as his passenger.
On the day of the murder, the cabman told this story.
I was sitting on the box of my cab about
three o'clock on the afternoon of June ninth, when a

(56:44):
well dressed chinaman came along and asked me if I
would take a trunk to New York for him. I
told the chinaman it would cost him something to have
a trunk taken to New York in a cab, but
if he had the money, I'd take it, all right.
He asked what it would cost, and I told him seven.
He said all right. The chinaman told me to drive
around to sixty four Market Street, and when we got there,

(57:07):
he jumped out and said to come upstairs. He took
me into a Chop Suey restaurant and pointed to the trunk,
a battered old affair standing in a corner near the
cashier's desk. That's the trunk, he said. I went to
lift it to my shoulders, but it was heavy, and
I told him I'd have to get some help. You'd
give me a lift, I said to him. The chinaman

(57:29):
told me that he was tired out, and then one
of the other chinamen came out of the restaurant. The
chinaman that seemed to be the boss of the place
said he would help me. Well, I get busy, I said,
and we took hold of the trunk, one of us
at each end, and carted it down the stairs. The
chinaman who hired me told me that there were clothes
in the trunk, but I told him it seemed as

(57:50):
if there was something heavier than clothes. It's more like bricks,
I says, And the chinaman didn't say anything. He didn't
even smile out on the sidewalk. We had an argument,
the chinaman and me about the price of taking the
cab up to New York. He thought seven dollars was
too much. All right, says I. If you can get

(58:11):
some one else to take it for less, go ahead.
He sat all right, and so we lifted the trunk
to the driver's box. The other chinaman in me and
I climbed up beside it. Before that, the chinaman who'd
hired me gave me an address on Eighth Avenue near
forty eighth Street, where I was to take the trunk.
The chinaman jumped into the cab and slammed the door,

(58:33):
and in a minute we were off to New York,
with the trunk beside me. On the way, the Chinaman
smoked cigarettes. He didn't poke his head out of the
cab window all the way. On the drive across the
meadows to Jersey City, when we were going over the
twenty third Street ferry, the Chinaman leaned out of the
window and looked up to see if the trunk was
still on the seat beside me. When we got to

(58:55):
Eighth Avenue, the Chinaman leaned out of the window again
and told me he would show me where the house
was where I was to go. When we got up
in the neighborhood, I told him i'd find it all right.
He had told me it was a chop suey house
on eighth Avenue, and I said I could find that
place all right. I drove along, and as we got
up near the neighborhood, I began to look for chopped

(59:16):
suea houses. I saw one near the corner of forty
eighth Street and stopped there. The Chinaman helped me down
with the trunk and asked me to take it upstairs.
I said it was too heavy and I wasn't going
to carry it up whether he paid me extra for
it or not. I was through lugging that trunk. The
Chinaman paid me the seven dollars, and the last I
saw of him, he was helping a Negro and a

(59:38):
Chinaman carry the trunk into the building. I don't know
exactly how long it took me to drive from Newark,
but I should say it was two hours and a half.
I think I got to the eighth Avenue house by
five o'clock, though I'm not sure about it. Some of
the detectives working on the murder case suggested a story
that Elsie Seigel might have been murdered in Newark instead

(01:00:00):
of this city, and that Leon Ling, finding himself unable
to dispose of the body at Newark, brought it here.
They argued that Ling probably reasoned that the only place
where he might take the body without fear of immediate
detection would have been his own room, so he took
it there and left it, knowing that someday it would
be found. To cover up his tracks, he went to Washington,

(01:00:21):
these detectives reasoned, sent the telegram to Elsie Sigel's father,
returned to the city for funds, which he received from
his compatriots in Chinatown and then left the country on
a steamer. It is not known that Elsie Sigel ever
went to Newark with Leon Ling, but the detectives, holding
the theory of the murder having been committed in that city,
maintained that it would probably been has just as easy

(01:00:44):
for Ling to have induced the girl to accompany him
to that city on June ninth as it was to
lure her to his apartment above the eighth Avenue chop
Suey House June twenty ninth, nineteen oh nine. Inspector McCafferty,

(01:01:13):
and telling the extent of the police work, said that
fifty detectives from headquarters had been searching through the various
cities of the East for trace of Leon Ling since
the night of June eighteenth, when Elsie Seigel's body was
found in the trunk in Ling's den. Besides these detectives,
the police investigation has been aided by authorities of every

(01:01:34):
city in the country. If Leon Ling is still in
this country, said Inspector McCafferty, there can be no escape
for him the moment he tries to leave the country.
If he has not already done so, he will be
caught of that, I am sure, I am inclined to
believe he has not fled to another country, and I

(01:01:55):
am sure he is alive. The only vessel on which
Leon could have escaped, for we have investigated every possible
chance of his getting away on steamers, was the one
that will reach Yokohama on July third. When it touches
at that port, the steamer will be searched, and if
Leon Ling is on it, he will be arrested. If

(01:02:16):
it turns out that he is not on that one,
then we will be sure, in the event that he
is not captured in the meantime that he is hiding
somewhere in this country. Wilkesbury, Pennsylvania, June thirtieth, nineteen ten,

(01:02:44):
one year after the murder, a Chinese secret service agent
from Washington who arrived here today, declares that he knows
where Leon Lang, the suspected murderer of Elsey Seigel in
New York City, is. High Ling, he says, escaped to
Canada before the girl's death was discovered. There, he was

(01:03:07):
concealed for a time by other Chinamen and was finally
smuggled to China, where he is now working on a farm.
Ling did not kill the girl, according to this authority,
but was an accessory to the murder and placed the
body in a trunk to conceal it until he had
time to get out of the country. This has been

(01:03:48):
the Chinatown trunk Murder the awful death of Elsie Seigel.
Leon Ling was never captured and no arrests or conveys
wherever made in the case of Elsie Seigel. For a
complete list of sources for this podcast, please visit www

(01:04:10):
dot truecrimehistorian dot com, where you can also find newspaper
clippings and photographs from this place, as well as more
stories about the scandals, scoundrels, and scourges of America's fast
along with information about my true crime books and my
two dollars Terror series of historical crime novellas. Music by

(01:04:32):
Chuck Wiggins. This is true Crime Historian Richard O. Jones
signing off for now It tal
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On Purpose with Jay Shetty

On Purpose with Jay Shetty

I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!

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