Truth Wanted 08.23 with Kelley Laughlin and Aaron Jensen 2025-06-06

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Let's talk about experts. It seems, at least here in
the United States, that people don't trust experts, and that
is heartbreaking. When your car breaks down, you take it
to a mechanic. They've got the training and expertise to
diagnose and repair. Can you imagine what would happen if
airlines started asking for volunteer pilots on flights. At best,
people will just get off the airplane. At worst, there
would be people trampled to death in the rush to

(00:20):
get off the plane. Experts are good. They studied and
worked and know more about their field and specialty than
other people. And there are some experts that are generally trusted,
but some that are not. If we're willing to trust
mechanics and pilots, why don't we trust psychiatric experts when
they tell us how the human brain works, how sexuality works,
how gender works. Why do we not listen to doctors

(00:41):
and scientists that study the human body and imnology and
instead listen to quacks and snake oil salesmen. Why do
we seem to venerate in revere and listen first to
people with the most money or the loudest voices instead
of people with the most training. If you could explain
why we shouldn't listen to the experts, then give us
a call because the show is starting right now.

Speaker 2 (01:05):
Hey, what's up everyone, and welcome to another episode of
Truth Wanted. I am your host, Kelly Laughlin. I'm just
as surprised to see me in the driver's seat tonight
as you are. And this is our Live Collins show
that we do every single Friday at seven pm Central,
where we talk to people about what they believe and
why they believe it. And if you'd like you yes,

(01:28):
you yourself can call us at one five one two
nine nine nine to two, four to two, or use
your computer at tiny dot cc slash t call tw
Truth Wanted is a product of the Atheist Community of Austin,
a five oh one c three nonprofit organization dedicated to

(01:48):
the promotion of atheism, critical thinking, secular humanism, and the
separation of religion and government. And every week we have
a special guest on the show, but we didn't last week,
but every week we do usually and this week my
special guest is Aaron Jensen from the nonprofit's how you
doing Erin?

Speaker 1 (02:08):
Oh me me, oh to me? Yes, Hello, I'm doing well.
I am the special guest. I was like, I'm I
just don't get I just don't get called special in
a good way very often. So, yeah, it's good to
be here, thank you.

Speaker 2 (02:20):
That's true. I saw a girl that I know recently
that from town. I live in a small town. I
saw it in another story went she got a big smell.
I said hi, and I was like, usually women aren't
that happy to see me.

Speaker 1 (02:35):
What's wrong?

Speaker 2 (02:35):
What's going on?

Speaker 1 (02:36):
Help me?

Speaker 2 (02:38):
So? How so, how have you been lately?

Speaker 3 (02:40):
Erin?

Speaker 2 (02:41):
I know you and I haven't worked together in quite
a while, actually a while.

Speaker 3 (02:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:45):
I was able to host uh Talk Heathen a couple
of weeks ago, and now I'm here on Truth Wanted today.
I'm looking forward to taking some calls. Things have been
going well for me, just you know, same old, same old,
one day at a time.

Speaker 2 (02:57):
You're backing up talk Keathen a little bit more, now,
aren't I am?

Speaker 1 (03:00):
They've gotten me in a rotation, it looks like, and
I'm really happy about that. I love being on the shows.
I love talking to people.

Speaker 2 (03:05):
I like, do you like backup posting?

Speaker 1 (03:07):
I love supporting the ACA, I love their mission, I
love what they're doing. I think we need more critical
thinking the world. We need more separation of religion and government.
We need all the good things that the ACAA is doing.
So I'm here to help and support them and get
their message out because I think it makes I think
it literally makes the world a better place when people
can can think more critically and evaluate what people are

(03:30):
saying and maybe just a little more skeptical about what's
going on in the world out there.

Speaker 2 (03:34):
I agree to all of that stuff, But do you
like backup posting.

Speaker 1 (03:38):
I'd much rather be on the show than backup host. Hey,
so there's got to be there's always got to be
a backup post.

Speaker 2 (03:46):
So I did a lot when we first started having
backup posts, and there weren't a lot of people who
were trained on all the stuff, you know. So I
was doing a lot of it, and I love doing it.
It was like, Hey, I get to hang out with
sr and Forrest Falcai for an hour before the show.
You know. That was a lot of fun. So that's
that's my big that's my big enjoyment out of it,
was being able to hang out with so many cool
and awesome people.

Speaker 1 (04:07):
No, it's a lot. It's a lot of the people
are great, and building those relationships is great, and having
friends and around the country is is. It's a lot of,
it's a lot of. It's very good.

Speaker 2 (04:15):
It's very nice. Speaking of friends, I'm going to bring
up our backup post, Eli, because he's yeah, and backup
friends and backup post because he's going to do our
weekly we want the truth segment. Hey, Eli, how you doing?

Speaker 4 (04:31):
I'm doing good.

Speaker 1 (04:31):
How are you guys doing?

Speaker 2 (04:33):
I'm hey, I'm my usual son yourself.

Speaker 4 (04:35):
So I'm also very surprised to see me here right,
not excited, but yeah, I've got a question of the
Week segment for you guys. So last week we asked
what is the least appropriate I had it here? Sorry

(04:55):
about that? What is the least appropriate opening for d
D door to Door Soul Winning? So here are our
top three non Chuck Gato's answers. Number three, Zach reads,
good job, Zach. The least appropriate introduction for door to
Door Soul Winning? Do you want to be dwinched in

(05:15):
the blood of my Savior?

Speaker 1 (05:19):
That's it's a creepy opening line.

Speaker 4 (05:21):
It's a really, you know, really strong opener.

Speaker 2 (05:24):
When you think about go ahead, I was gonna say
back in the days when the j WS did more
door knocking. One of the things that when they'd knock
on my door, I would always tell them that I
was druid, and I was druid and was baptized in
the blood of a tree. Do you have any questions
for me? And they usually want to talk to me
after that.

Speaker 3 (05:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (05:44):
Well, if you if you were to lose your memory
and have all knowledge of Christianity white from your brain,
and somebody came to you and taught you some of
the doctrines of Christianity, you would be like, this is freaky.
You're freaking me out here, so yeah, good answer you.

Speaker 2 (05:57):
Yeah, and you're eating his body.

Speaker 1 (05:59):
Yeah, and drinking is blood.

Speaker 4 (06:03):
But it's not a cult.

Speaker 1 (06:05):
It's not witchcraft, it's not it's no druids involved.

Speaker 4 (06:08):
What we got we got two more here, second one
from Serge Kilogram. I think I don't know least appropriate
introduction door to door soul winning. Please pay no attention
to the fact that I'm only wearing my magic underwear.

Speaker 3 (06:24):
Yah.

Speaker 4 (06:25):
To be fair is like a lot more modest than
just yeah, you're one.

Speaker 2 (06:31):
Of the underwear outside. Yeah, it's not like your normal
day to day underwear.

Speaker 1 (06:35):
No, I think people would be like, huh, they would
just be would be more weird than salacious, that's for sure.

Speaker 2 (06:43):
It's not like it's a holy thong or anything.

Speaker 4 (06:46):
No, I would go for one of those. Yeah, then
we'll move on though. Number one from Shay the Crowcheer
least appropriate introduction to door to doors winning Hi, I'm
required by a lot to say I'm a registered sex
offender near you. But while I'm here, have you heard
about our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ that?

Speaker 1 (07:12):
Yeah, yes, that's no comment. Right.

Speaker 4 (07:16):
It hurts because there's an element of reality behind it, Yes, right, right, it.

Speaker 1 (07:21):
Hurts because it's true.

Speaker 2 (07:22):
You know, I did these things, but now I'm better
because Jesus.

Speaker 4 (07:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (07:26):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 (07:27):
We've had a conversation about like that recently on the
non profits as well. So for the next week's question,
the prompt is complete the sentence if I were a ghost,
I would blink just to fuck with people. So that'll
be next week. Aaron, do you have an answer for
this one?

Speaker 1 (07:47):
Yeah, if I was a ghost, I'm assuming I couldn't
interact with the physical world, Because I interact with the
physical world, I would just do all I would just
move shit, all over the place. But assuming ghosts can't,
I would call people from across the house all the time,
like never know when they're actually getting called or when
they weren't getting called, who was doing the calling, and
if they were really needed or not. So And I

(08:08):
would especially do it in big houses to rich people,
so they we just have to literally walk across the house.

Speaker 2 (08:14):
Yeah, some spirits can interact with the physical world, like
a poulter geist.

Speaker 3 (08:18):
Right.

Speaker 4 (08:19):
Yeah, well I'm assuming there's no rules.

Speaker 2 (08:21):
Okay, well you know what I yeah, okay, there you go.
You know what I would do. I would keep I
would keep taking somebody's alarm clock and putting it back
one hour while they're sleeping.

Speaker 4 (08:29):
Oh yeah, that'll.

Speaker 2 (08:31):
Mess with them.

Speaker 4 (08:32):
I would just like when they go to close the
door in their house, put my hand over.

Speaker 5 (08:36):
The theme so I just won't latch, which is I'm
like I'm moving through matter and also like affecting matters.

Speaker 4 (08:46):
But if we assume there's no rules, yeah right right,
it doesn't matter.

Speaker 2 (08:50):
You can control the model like want.

Speaker 1 (08:52):
We're talking about ghosts, so I guess there would be
no rules. Ghosts can do whatever we want them to do,
kind of like God, he can just be wherever we
need him to be. Yeah, there you go.

Speaker 4 (09:04):
All right, that's it for me. Guys, right, have an
awesome show.

Speaker 1 (09:07):
Thanks you.

Speaker 2 (09:10):
I always enjoy having the Eli around.

Speaker 1 (09:12):
So Eli's great. Everybody's great here at the A c. A.

Speaker 2 (09:14):
I'm down the best though, Okay, okay, as long as
you agreed, we are all your agreement.

Speaker 1 (09:21):
As long as you agree, we're all we're all one
of the best, we're all we're all special. We're all special.

Speaker 2 (09:26):
Kelly, I'm still I promised Jimmy Jr. Or I wouldn't
be negative anymore. And I told him it was going
to unleash this huge ego that I have, and he
told me to go ahead.

Speaker 1 (09:35):
So okay, well let's see it.

Speaker 2 (09:36):
I just you just saw it. I'm the best.

Speaker 1 (09:39):
Oh, I see, I've seen bigger.

Speaker 2 (09:43):
The show goes on, I'm sure. Okay.

Speaker 1 (09:45):
Challenge accepted.

Speaker 2 (09:46):
All right.

Speaker 3 (09:46):
Oh you know what.

Speaker 2 (09:47):
Speaking of challenge, We're gonna do super Chat challenge. And
and here's the deal. We had so much fun doing
random facts last week. I am going to lobby for
that to be our thing. That if you give us
a five dollars or more super Chat, we are going
to hit you with some truth. You want some truth,
give us a five dollars super chat and we will

(10:09):
hit you with a random truth fact. So, no matter
what we're doing, whenever that superchat comes in, we will
stop what we are doing and read your super chat.

Speaker 1 (10:19):
I have eleven facts right here in my little notepad
over here on this other screen nobody can see but me.
I have eleven facts. I want to get through them
all today. So come on, five do let's go. Let's go.
So do not guarantee the funness of the facts though.

Speaker 2 (10:35):
You know, I always say, if you want to see
the future stars of the ACA, you should be watching
Nonprofits today, right? Do you agree with that?

Speaker 1 (10:44):
The nonprofit is a great show. They have a really interesting,
very smart, intelligent people on that show talking about really interesting,
smart and good articles. Yeah.

Speaker 6 (10:54):
And and then I show up occasionally I have them
on the I have not been on there very much lately,
but I I occasionally also show up and you know,
ramble incoherently for a few minutes at a time.

Speaker 2 (11:07):
So how did you how did you end up becoming
a part of the nonprofits?

Speaker 1 (11:11):
I just asked. I email said, hey, I want to
be part of the ACA. You guys are doing great.
I really wanted to be here where I am right now. Excellent.
My plan is coming to fruition.

Speaker 2 (11:21):
I want to be able to work hard at it.
You just asked, Tom, Well, well.

Speaker 1 (11:25):
I've been I've been at it for a year and
a half now. I think it took a while.

Speaker 2 (11:28):
But no, I asked to Uh, we gotta stop, We
gotta stop.

Speaker 1 (11:32):
We got to stop.

Speaker 2 (11:34):
Throw throw a fact out there.

Speaker 1 (11:35):
Okay, Maine is the US state closest to Africa.

Speaker 2 (11:39):
That's that. That is not a rock fact. But there
are rocks in both Maine and Africa. Yes, so there is.
So there is a connection.

Speaker 1 (11:47):
Thank you, Rainbow Ash for your super jet, and there's
your fun.

Speaker 2 (11:50):
If you want a rock fact, though, I'll give you one,
just random right off the bat.

Speaker 1 (11:53):
Hey, he the only paid for one, Kelly, are we
giving the ship away?

Speaker 2 (11:56):
Well no, well why not? They wanted a rock fact.
We'll get Okay, we'll get Okay, they were the first
one too, so we'll give them the bonus.

Speaker 4 (12:03):
Right.

Speaker 2 (12:04):
The mineral kayanite has three different hardnesses depending on which
plane of the crystal you check. It's the only mineral
that does that.

Speaker 1 (12:12):
Very nice. I understood each word, but not all of
them together. Cool, very nice. Yeah, I gotta yeah, yeah,
what does it look like?

Speaker 2 (12:24):
Okay, I don't have a crystal of it. But if
I grab this crystal, it has a different hardness across
this surface and across this surface, okay, and across this surface,
the three surfaces you test, it'll be hard hardness, whereas
this crystal is the same all the way around it.
In fact, all other minerals are the same all the
way around it.

Speaker 1 (12:43):
That's why that was a rock. Fun fact is that
that there's the one mineral that behaves differently than all
the other ones. There you go, just like I am,
I'm now, I am now a mineral expert. Where's my PhD?

Speaker 2 (12:53):
Kelly, I don't even have one, so I can't give.

Speaker 7 (12:57):
I thought you did.

Speaker 1 (12:58):
I thought you had a PhD.

Speaker 2 (12:59):
No, not I have. I have. I have a degree
in English.

Speaker 1 (13:03):
Okay, but you're published. You're a published in I am.

Speaker 2 (13:07):
I am a published peery. I have been published in
peer reviewed geology journals.

Speaker 1 (13:11):
Yes, that's amazing.

Speaker 2 (13:13):
I just took I went back to school and took
a few geology classes, and I've just been working in
the field my whole life. So I'm sure, what is.

Speaker 1 (13:20):
Your favorite what's your favorite peer reviewed article that you published.

Speaker 2 (13:23):
My they're they're not real interesting. For like, I'm not
doing big scientific discoveries. Mostly what I we did was
talk about new locations for something. Okay. So the thing
that I probably got the most reaction that I published
was an article about a rock that was called the
uper Light. It's just a commercial name. It's not a

(13:46):
real mineral name. It's named after the up the people
who live in the Michigan are called upers so and
it lights up in a UV light. So the guy
called it euper Light. And we we did a bunch
of tests and we figured out what all the different
minerals were in these rocks, and we published that and
it started a huge fat I was actually on TV

(14:06):
in Japan. I had a Japanese film crew in my house.
It was amazing. I just had surgery on my back too.
I could barely walk.

Speaker 1 (14:13):
That's cool, awesome, that's awesome.

Speaker 2 (14:15):
Yeah, it was great, and so that was kind of
that was my big claim to fame. So most of
my articles have been like that we disiscovered this new
this mineral in this new place.

Speaker 1 (14:26):
Although that's remember we did this coolest name. I just
love the fact that they named it after an abbreviation
to the Upper Peninsula. Ayoper, that's amazing.

Speaker 2 (14:37):
Yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah to you, Peter. I love
it up here. It's beautiful. If you ever get a chance, everybody,
come on up close too long, go home, closes up
Come to Michigan.

Speaker 1 (14:47):
Has been was Minnesota? My sister lives in Minnesota.

Speaker 2 (14:50):
So yeah, yeah, have you ever been to the north
of Minnesota.

Speaker 1 (14:53):
Nope, just around Minneapolis.

Speaker 2 (14:54):
Okay, I'm about to say, if you've been to the
north of Minnesota, it's a lot like here, honestly, a
lot like it. So lots of lakes, lots of lakes.

Speaker 1 (15:02):
I heard there's lots of lakes up there, lots of lakes.

Speaker 2 (15:06):
So so you just asked.

Speaker 1 (15:09):
I just asked. I sent an email said hey, I
want to be on your shows, and I said, well,
we don't let random strangers onto our shows, so but
we do have this cool show called the Nonprofits where
you can start out. I said, sure, I'll do that,
and so I did that for a year and got
on an episode of Talk Heathen, then went a few
months and got on an episode of Truth Wanted. I
think it was Truth Wanted first, and then Talk Heathen

(15:30):
and then back up hosted Talk Ethen and ended up
being on the host that day and back up hosted
a couple weeks ago.

Speaker 2 (15:35):
I hear that.

Speaker 1 (15:36):
Yeah, so this is I think my sixth appearance on
the ACA on an acad Colin show, my fifth or sixth.
So that's awesome. Excited to be here.

Speaker 2 (15:43):
Yeah, that was about That was about my story too, honestly,
except I didn't ask They asked me because I'm just amazing.

Speaker 1 (15:49):
You when you get asked, yes, you must be amazing.

Speaker 2 (15:52):
I well, I was. I was doing Meet the ACA
on discord. I'd been doing that for like a year,
so everybody knew who I was already.

Speaker 1 (15:59):
So and I started listening before the pandemic when everything
was live broadcast from the library. So I was like, Oh,
there's no chance we'll ever be a host because they
have to move to Austin. And then the pandemic happened
and they started doing remote hosts. I was like, Oh,
everybody's remote now, so hey, I can do it, so
and here I am. I am not in Austin. I mean, I.

Speaker 2 (16:18):
Think it's one of the best things that's happened because
we've been able to bring in so much great talent
from all over the world and continue to I know
we've been able to bring it like Justin d Z
just joined us. John Gleeson, godless eight godless engineer just
recently joined the crew over at a XP. So it's
really good to see all these people that normally we
wouldn't be able to have.

Speaker 1 (16:38):
A lot of good hosts, lots of oart people out
there and a little better place and me and us
and you and me. Sorry, guys, you're stuck with us
tonight and our and our main Africa mineral fun facts.

Speaker 2 (16:51):
Yeah, right there you go. We do have open lines though,
we'd like to have you call in. I got one
Collins being screened right now, so as soon as they're
with the screening process, won't bring them on up. And
I think they want to call in about the question
what about that? What about your question about expertise? You know,
I was thinking about that because there are a lot
of fake experts out there, and there's a lot of

(17:13):
like I one of the things that I run into
and I just had a guy in today, just one
of them today. Guy knows everything about Rocks, doesn't know
doesn't know crap about rocks, but he really really thinks
he knows everything about it. Guy was an expert in
his own mind, right, So how do you deal with
that kind of a thing.

Speaker 1 (17:32):
That's the tricky part about being an expert is usually
once you become an expert, you realize you don't know
a lot of things, and so you kind of you
kind of like, you know, well it's X, y Z,
but there's all these exceptions, or there's all these kind
of rules, and or you're maybe you're simplifying things. And
so when you're an expert, you tend to be a

(17:52):
little more a little less sure, just because you know
that you don't know a lot. And there are people
that aren't experts that they're just they're just sure and
they're confident. My junior English teacher told me, some told
us the class ones that if you just pretend, if
you pretend to know what you're doing, people will believe you.
It's human it's human nature to believe the loudest voice,
the most insistent voice, the one that's talking the most,

(18:14):
instead of actually evaluating what they're saying.

Speaker 2 (18:17):
And I will I'll back that up in a heartbeat. Yeah,
I was just I don't maybe it was last week
I was in the show. I was just recently talking
about using the voice of authority with a crowd of people.
You know, you just start talking like you're the guy
in charge and ordering people around and they listen. It's
really weird.

Speaker 1 (18:35):
It's true, it's crazy.

Speaker 2 (18:37):
It really sucks in a way because if the person
yelling and telling everybody what. It's so sad that, Miranda Renzburg,
it's so sad that people think of five minute Google search.
It's the same thing as years of education and experience.
You're absolutely right. Yet you want to throw that one
out and you want me to get one.

Speaker 1 (18:57):
Oh, I think, well, I think we've both given one
facts on I will do another fact that gets back
around to me. Let's see here, Oh, Antarctica is the
world's largest desert.

Speaker 2 (19:08):
That's true.

Speaker 1 (19:10):
This is more of a pedant fact because a desert
is technically a desert is anywhere it doesn't rain, and
it just doesn't rain in Antarca, so technically it's a desert.

Speaker 2 (19:20):
Thank you, Miranda, Thank you so much, Miranda, Thank you
for all your support all the time. We love it
at death.

Speaker 1 (19:25):
Yeah, why is it Miranda hosting these shows, we don't know.
Has somebody ever tried to, Oh, no, here we go
here we got from God with a dollar ninety nine.
Oh but he only paid a dollar night nine? Can
we let him interrupt? I'm not sure.

Speaker 2 (19:38):
How does geology disprove prove Noah's flood? Well, in several ways.
There's no record of it in the in the speaking
of Antarctica, there's no method of it in the polar
ice caps right in the in the levels of the
polar ice cap. That's a big way right there. We
also don't have any worldwide sentimental layer that's from the

(19:59):
same time period. So that's another way. That's just two
easy ones right off the fact, right off the back.
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (20:04):
Because when floods, when floods happened, they carry dirt, and
they lay dirt down right right right, and is continually
as floods continually happened, dirt more dirt comes piled on
and piled on and piled on. And so if you
dig down to the dirt, or if you look at
the side of a mountain that's got all those different
layers coming through the ta, you can see what's happened
in the past. As you look at those layers and

(20:25):
there's no layer. If there's a worldwide flood, you'd expect
to see a layer that is about the same place worldwide,
and we.

Speaker 2 (20:33):
Just still here's an example, like, there was a meteor
that impacted near Sudbury, Ontario, and it created like a
huge tidal wave because there was a water here at
the time, and that wave washed over where I live
now and there is still a layer of mud from that. Yeah,
and that happened hundreds of thousands of years ago.

Speaker 1 (20:53):
So yeah, I live in the Northwest and everyone. So
we'll drive up the Columbia River Gorge. As you're driving
up that gorge, the deep, deep deep sides to the
canyon of the gorge on both sides, you can see
those layer lines of all the different events that have
happened throughout throughout the millennium here on the planet, and
it's fascinating.

Speaker 2 (21:12):
That's a beautiful drive too, man, it is a beautiful drive.
I just got a warm heart. My dad and I
took that drive. I don't have a lot of memories
with my dad, so they didn't meet him until later
in life, and he passed away since then.

Speaker 1 (21:23):
So it's really different now. Yeah, a few years ago
they had a fire and go through the gorge, a
really bad one. And so so now the gorge looks
it's still just as beautiful, but it's really different now
because now you can see more of the rocks and
everything underneath it. Right, all the trees are burnt out.

Speaker 2 (21:39):
So it's awesome, it's it's it's.

Speaker 1 (21:41):
Pretty, but just in a different way now.

Speaker 2 (21:43):
So you know, we have our we have our callar
ready to Go's go to Michigan from Hey, my Michigan.
Expertise is not overrated in the age of Google. So
let's bring her up. Chloe. She her Michigan. Oh I
thought I brought her up. I must have not clicked.
Good there, Hi Chloe, how are Yeah?

Speaker 7 (22:01):
I'm good.

Speaker 8 (22:01):
How are you guys?

Speaker 2 (22:02):
Awesome?

Speaker 1 (22:03):
Doing well? What can we do for you? What do
you want to talk about.

Speaker 7 (22:06):
For me?

Speaker 8 (22:07):
I thought the question was kind of easy, and then
I was I mean, like, I don't think that expertise
is overrated. I mean like I think that people overrated
ten been the age of Google, but like, I don't
think it's And I was curious, like, why was that
your question for this college show?

Speaker 2 (22:19):
Well, it was Eric Aaron wrote the cold open about expertise,
so we kind of geared the question towards the opening
that he wrote. So I guess, Aaron, you want to
tell us why.

Speaker 1 (22:30):
Yeah, it just seems when I'm when I look out
in the world and I see a lot of the
conflict that I'm seeing is people don't want to believe experts.
They don't want to believe medical experts or mental health
experts and other kinds of experts that have studied things
for a long long time and and know what they're
talking about. And it's just it's really disheartening to look
out in the world to see people u seeing their

(22:51):
own opinions or a Google search over the work of
people that have dedicated their lives to certain knowledge in
the world.

Speaker 2 (23:01):
I have to agree with Aaron on that, but I
also want to say I don't think knowledge should be
I don't think we should gate keep knowledge. Like I
was just mentioning before that, I don't have a degree
in geology, yet I spent forty years doing geology work,
and all my geology friends. Actually I never consider myself
a geologist and so date until they started calling me one,

(23:23):
right because I don't have a degree in it. So
I don't think I don't think it's necessary to have
to gatekeep knowledge and make it so only the experts
can learn things. There is so much knowledge out there.
You're right. In the age of Google, you can learn
anything you want. However, and also in the age of Google,
you can learn a lot of things that aren't true

(23:43):
about a topic as well, So you have to be
very careful.

Speaker 1 (23:46):
Yeah, and if you're not careful, you can also just
reinforce your bad beliefs. You're incorrect beliefs too, right, you
can always you can. Our human beings have a tendency
to have confirmation bias, where we only look at the
things that confirm the things we already believe, And so
if you're not careful in the role of Google and
search engines, you can end up in an echo chamber
where you're just seeing things that confirm what you already

(24:06):
want to believe.

Speaker 8 (24:08):
I think kind of a death of theiosity that's going
to happen to Like, I think people get curious and
less than and really low they the brain funk this CuPy.
But like I think, you know, I'm I'm somebody I
get a college degree and I was I was raised
hound that had like a kind of a big university
for my denomination and a big church, and it was
like a university a thing. So education was saturated, you know,

(24:30):
in my environment act quality of mission based on it
being you know, Christian. But at least what it gave
me though, is like a love of learning and knowing
that like there's a lot to be learned when you
research and when you dig into something and you dig
into what professors have to say, there's so much more there.
And so that at least has given me an attitude
that when I go on Google, I know I'm just
getting a little bit. And also a doctor's kid, and

(24:52):
I know that medical shows don't like you know, give
you there's shows, there are TV shows, but there's some
things that you can pick up logically, where like saying
die gnosticks for example. You know, you can have a
lot of the same symptoms for different things, and it
takes a lot more detail and analysis to really figure
out the cause of something because a lot of symptoms
are shared across the board, as ho morbidities.

Speaker 3 (25:13):
You know and like.

Speaker 8 (25:15):
And I think I think that because so many people
now being raised with so much information available that like
we we've kind of lost the thrill of learning and
being empowered by that learning. And you know, life has
gotten so hard and there's so much crap in the
world that I think there's a huge orientation to being
comfortable and unless you think been through scenarios, we're learning
and like the truth that sets you free, you know,

(25:37):
in various scenarios, has like really changed your life, you don't.
I think a lot of people stuggle to have motivation
to really dig in research and learn because it just
seems like there's so much, so many resources, so much
information available. There's such a sageration, and I think I
think that's part of like what's going on in the
world today.

Speaker 1 (25:51):
Yeah, I totally I agree there's an oversaturation of information.
We have the twenty four hour news cycle, we have
social media. If you're not careful, you can just be
hooked in and just receiving signals, receiving information into your brain.
And I'm and I don't think the human brain was
necessarily uh evolved to handle that, to handle all that
information and all and we just can't sort through it all, right,

(26:12):
and our brain tries to make sense of it, and
our brain literally will make stuff up. If you can't
understand something, it just it'll just make things up. And
so you have to be really careful about how much
information where you're getting that information. I totally agree, and
I love your idea that how important curiosity is because
if you're if you're curious, you're gonna you're gonna reflect
on what you believe, and you'll be curious about Hey,
maybe I don't know everything, maybe there's more for me

(26:33):
to learn, or maybe I'm not right. So I really
do agree that curiosity is a really important trait to
have to stay educated.

Speaker 8 (26:41):
And then you know, sometimes you go through something shitting
and or like it's just a trauma or a comps
trauma and betrayal, and then sometimes you know, the natural
reaction is to like just shut down and make quite
simpler to avoid that pain. And then sometimes either the
natural reaction if you have somebody with a unique brain,
or sometimes you know everything along and somebody encourages you
to be more curious, you can like respond redemptively to

(27:03):
that awful thing by like seeking to learn about it
and dig more into reality. Because usually when there's you know,
shitty stuff that happens to us in betrayals. It kind
of like opens up new and really painful doors to
more reality and there's more to learn and we can
either shut down or we can expand, and you know,
learning and opening ourselves to more information. It's hard and painful.
But you know, I think that sometimes if you've been

(27:24):
through enough I don't know it's been true enough to
gnorious situations where like lack of information is really harmful,
if you've if you've not been through those scenarios where
a lack of information is harmful. You know, again, it
doesn't curiosity, but you know, and maybe somebody listens to
this might just I don't know, like take this and
you know, get a drive to like learn more, because
like I'm I'm thankful that like I can look things
up on Google and get kind of like a feel

(27:45):
when I talk to my doctor about my health issues,
and it can and I always just take it as
like a little bit of a lead, and then she
and I talk more, and then of course tests and
then like you know, when there's tests to figure stuff
out and get answers. You know, sometimes my doctors are like,
you know, well, I mean this is really just an
to rule something out. It's not necessarily tell us, but
I'm like, Nope, that's okay, because even if something is
ruled out and it's not that, that's still part of

(28:05):
the answer, that's still filled in with puzzle pieces, you know.
And I just think it would serve us all a
lot better to have more of that kind of mentality
rather than just seeking to be comfortable, because it's so
dangerously easy to find ways to make ourselves comfortable, and
then we can be vulnerable to harm and contribute the harm.
And I realize it.

Speaker 1 (28:21):
Yeah, I totally agree.

Speaker 2 (28:23):
I agree with that, but I also agree that we
could just be contributing a harm at any point not
realizing it too. So I mean, it doesn't you know
what I mean, It doesn't it doesn't matter in this
situation that your amount of knowledge or information doesn't always
matter when if you're causing harm and you don't know
about it, the amount of you know what I mean,
if it's if it's something that's like extraneous to your

(28:44):
normal routine.

Speaker 8 (28:45):
Well, and that made me think to keep interrupting. Sorry,
I keep thinking you're finishing, Sorry you finished, tell.

Speaker 2 (28:51):
I was just you know, what I'm thinking of is
like I don't know if you're familiar with Janeism. But
like Jane, Jane holy men will carry a staff with
a bell on it to warn small animals and even
bugs to stay out of their way so they don't
step on them. You know, I mean, we all caught.
We do these unconscious acts of harm all the time, right,
And there's not no matter how much knowledge we have,

(29:12):
these things are still going to happen. We can't prevent
it from happening. That's my point. That's the only point
I was making. So I mean, and I don't, I don't.
I try not to dwell on that stuff. And I
look at it this way. If it happened, it was
because it was probably meant to happen. And if something
bad came out of it, it's up to me to
make that bad turn into good. And the one thing

(29:33):
you could always get out of even a bad experience,
you can always get some good out of it by
learning a lesson. And I say many many times, my
failures and my setbacks have made me more of who
I am today, who I and I'm proud of who
I am today than all my successes put together. You know.
So yeah, well, and before you know.

Speaker 8 (29:53):
We close because I know, I've been on here for
a bit. Like just thing is that it's terms of curiosity.
I think, like, I think it's also important for us
to remain curious about ourselves, to pursue more self knowledge,
because we can so easily be deluded about ourselves. We
not just inoculated to what all there is to learn
outside of ourselves. But it's really important to just like,
you know, not to be naval gazers and like you know,

(30:15):
unhealthfully fixated, but like, but to just to know that,
like you know, we're always evolving and growing, and there's
so much more of ourselves get to learn. And I
know that, you know. The way that my brain has
worked and things have shaken out is that when I've
messed up and realized that, like I was capable of
a type of harm that I never intended or wanted,
you know, then that made me want to like learn
more about that capacity and also help others with it,

(30:37):
you know. And I just think curiosity would be such
a good tonic for the whole world, curiosity inwards and outwards.

Speaker 1 (30:43):
I agree, Yeah, that's awesome.

Speaker 2 (30:45):
That was one of the things I really tried to
instill in my kids was that sets of curiosity and wonderment.
I think, yeah, that's that's what we need more of that,
we really really do.

Speaker 1 (30:53):
Yeah, And I think there are a lot of people
interested in not and making sure people aren't curious, and
in telling people that knowing the things and learning things
is dangerous and that you shouldn't go out and find
try to find the truth, or you shouldn't learn new
things because learning those new things, Oh, it could be dangerous.
It could. And my response is the truth, the truth,

(31:13):
that you have nothing to fear from the truth. The
truth is the truth, and I think we're all better
off knowing what is true over what is false, you know,
knowing that which can poorts to reality. I think is
most people have phrased it, go ahead, we say that again.

Speaker 8 (31:24):
Yeah, the truth that you want to telegrounds for crying
out loud, Yeah, it does.

Speaker 1 (31:28):
And it can be hard for when you're learning with
stuff about yourself and those around you, that those can
be tough steps to face and tough steps to take
because it can sometimes involve changing who we are and
how we interact with the world. But I think that
just makes us better people.

Speaker 2 (31:42):
Yeah, Yeah, but it sure can be hard.

Speaker 1 (31:44):
To face the truth of ourselves. Sorry, what it can
be hard to face the truth about ourselves.

Speaker 8 (31:49):
Oh it's painful.

Speaker 2 (31:51):
It's harder to look in the mirror that it is
through a window I have.

Speaker 3 (31:55):
That's you know.

Speaker 8 (31:56):
And as a theist, I want toss this out in
cases any Christians listening or who fearless later that like,
you know, a lot of Christians can just be kind
of kind of the worst in some ways about this,
and yet I just want to talk out there that, like,
you know, we Christians say that we believe in an
infinite God and that he's the way, the truth in
the life. And if he's infinite and more finite and
his you know, and the Bible that we say we

(32:16):
believe in says to like, you know, this is eternal life.
That they know you the only true God in Jesus
Christian You've sent, then like that should be that should
imply to us like a lifelong task of learning, because
if eternal life is to really know and experience God,
then that means constant learning.

Speaker 2 (32:31):
Like wouldn't I mean like one of the things.

Speaker 8 (32:33):
Of like finite beings related to an incident being that
they say they believe in. So I just want toss
that out there as a challenge Christians who come across this.

Speaker 2 (32:40):
That's awesome. I think. I think one of the problems
is is that like a lot of you know, we
have problems are like with evolution. Let's go back to
the time at Galileo when we had the problem with
the we found out the earth was in the center
of the universe, right that these these things that and
it's not just Christianity, it's any other many other religions
have believe that are just not in compliance with the

(33:03):
things we found out through science since then. And I
think that's one of the reasons that a lot of
and I'm not that a lot of Christian churches and
I'm not saying all of them, nor am I saying
everybody in any one particular church is like this, But
a lot of people won't like squash that sense of
curiosity because of the fact that the more curious kids get,

(33:24):
the more they often see that the world doesn't align
with their religious beliefs.

Speaker 8 (33:30):
Yeah, and I and I'm not and I'm not testy
about like that because like you know, again, like I
think that Christians the most curious people, and that like
you know, like there's so much to learn. And if
an infinite and if we believe logically thinking, if we
believe that an infinite God created the world and has
put all kinds of like infinite genius into it, then
like we should never stop learning and like.

Speaker 2 (33:50):
Yeah, that's then there's an infinite amount of knowledge, right.

Speaker 8 (33:54):
Yeah, and we should be afraid of self correcting.

Speaker 2 (33:57):
I agree. I'm totally I think you are. You are
like a bright star in the darkness. Chloe. It's it's
really good to hear you say this, so yeah, I
agree with you fully. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (34:07):
I like I like to hear Christians challenging other Christians.

Speaker 2 (34:10):
Yeah, you know, yeah, challenging them to larn. That's amazing.

Speaker 1 (34:14):
I love it.

Speaker 2 (34:15):
Yeah, that's great, Chloe.

Speaker 8 (34:17):
Thank you, thanks for having me.

Speaker 1 (34:18):
Thank yeah, yeah, thanks for your call. Chloe, was great
talking with you. Thanks for I think I recognize your voice.
You've called many times before, so I think all your
calls are have been have been fabulous. So thanks for calling.

Speaker 2 (34:29):
Yeah, yeah, it's been a while, so yeah, but you're
you know, You're always welcome to call back. I love
talking to you, Chloe, So feel free, at least when
I'm on the show. I can't speak for everybody else,
but I love I'll talk to you any day. Thank
you all right, And uh with that, I am going
to uh announce that we have a patron of the week.

(34:51):
Believe it or not. Something we do. Yeah, something we do.

Speaker 1 (34:55):
It's been a week, it's been another week.

Speaker 2 (34:57):
It's bed has it's been one more week, and our
patriot of the week this week is Stefan Vandenburgh. I
love that name. Stefan Vandenburgh. Thank you very very much.
Thank you everyone. Man. You know what, if I get
into a sword fight, I want Stephan Vandenburgh on my side.
I don't even just because the name. He's got to

(35:18):
be good at it. But thanks to all the other
paid people who contributed to the show, we really really
appreciate it. Everybunny goes to produce the show. None of
us make any money off of it, none of the hosts.
So please please keep helping support us. We appreciate a lot.

Speaker 1 (35:34):
Yes, please, thank you.

Speaker 2 (35:36):
Then we have some announcements we should be doing or something.

Speaker 1 (35:39):
I'm disappointed in our audience. There's no super chats. Where
are the super chats? Asking for random facts? We spent
a long time before the show about five minutes looking
at random fun facts, and we need to get our
money's worth. We need to get these out there. These
are important fun facts that people need to know.

Speaker 2 (35:56):
We thought you people wanted truth here, what the hell? Yeah,
I mean, hey, here's some truth. You can get truth
wanted merchandise like this awesome mug. But just it's really
easy to All I gotta do is visit tiny That's
all right, I'm gonna start over with tiny dot cc
slash merch Aca. We got t shirts, we got hoodies,

(36:19):
we got mugs, we got hats, all kinds of cool stuff.
Go over there, check it out. And you can find
stuff from the other shows there too, So you know
all those other shows the ATA does. And another way
to support us is by sending us those super chats
keeping coming in. We're gonna keep throwing truth at you.
Become a channel member by clicking the joint button below
the video. It'll give you access to special chat emojis

(36:41):
and access to early YouTube shorts hand clips. So, and
you know what, we have a very very very special
group of people that make this happen every week. They
are the amazing, the incredible, the awesome crew. So if
we can bring the crew cam up, I would love
to sew everybody. I'll look at those awesome.

Speaker 1 (37:02):
People, Look at them, look at them.

Speaker 2 (37:04):
There you go, yeah, yes, there you go, truth wanted
T shirt. There you go, repping the merch over there. Awesome.

Speaker 1 (37:10):
You should have sent a poet, Kelly. They should have
sent a poet.

Speaker 2 (37:14):
That's so beautiful, that is that's amazing. So we still
have a call though, And this is going to be
interesting because Chloe said, you know in the in this
day and age that.

Speaker 1 (37:25):
Oh we got a fun fact. There we go, your turn,
Luke Wiley wants a fun fact.

Speaker 2 (37:32):
Rubies and sapphires are actually the very same thing corundum.
One has traces of iron that stayed in the mineral
one color, and the other has traces of chromium that
that stain it white. Isn't that amazing? And actually sapphires
can be any color but red, because then they're a ruby.

Speaker 1 (37:51):
Okay, So basically rubies are their own special thing. If
it's not red, as a sapphire, red got a better.

Speaker 2 (37:58):
Deal, right, are all the same thing as a gem merchant,
they'd different. Well, I think of sapphires as blue, right, right,
But they can be green or gold. A pad parishaw
sapphire is kind of orange.

Speaker 1 (38:13):
I remember reading ones that emeralds. Emeralds are actually the
most about one of the most valuable.

Speaker 2 (38:17):
They are.

Speaker 1 (38:17):
They are they're more valuable than diamonds or something like that.

Speaker 2 (38:20):
I can't remember. Candy. Yeah, they probably actually are, because
there are actually more, way more diamonds in the world
than people realize.

Speaker 1 (38:28):
Yeah, and they're also easy to make diamonds.

Speaker 2 (38:30):
Now they are nowadays. Yeah, it took them a while
to get it down, but yeah, they can make them
pretty easy nowadays.

Speaker 3 (38:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (38:36):
Okay, Yeah, so we're going to produce.

Speaker 2 (38:38):
All up because Eric him in Colorado, says that expertise
is not relied on enough. I keep forgetting I got
a double click or they don't come up. Hi, Eric,
how you doing?

Speaker 3 (38:48):
Hi Aaron, Hi Kelly, Thanks for having me.

Speaker 1 (38:50):
On the show, Thanks for calling, Thanks for calling you.
What are you got for us?

Speaker 3 (38:53):
Yeah? So, well, I was reading top and I'm like,
I wanted to call him. Just give my devid. I've
been around in a while and I don't know if
any of you remember, but any of you like me
remember it for like Google game, I do.

Speaker 1 (39:05):
Yeah, it was amazing. We were talking before the show.
Do you remember before Google, there was Yahoo and you
had to go click and find topics like started a
really general topic and then slowly get That's how you
search the Internet before kids is you had to you
had to search it yourself. Kids, none of this and
it just pops up and none of this AI garbage

(39:27):
where it just answers your questions for you.

Speaker 3 (39:29):
You had to find it.

Speaker 2 (39:31):
Do you want do you want people to get off
your lawn to Aaron? Sorry? Eric, Sorry, that's okay.

Speaker 3 (39:41):
But when when the Internet was new, when you know,
search engines were there was something that they taught them
that was it was called internet etic and it are like, okay,
this when you create something new, like it's a great
pool if you use it proper. I always give a
hammer a great it's proper. If it improper, it could
be a weapon or hard at Google and everything else.

(40:01):
Same way, it's a great tool to prop So one
of the things they used to teach is Internet etiquette,
which means when you search for information, make sure you
cite your sources that you're going to reliable sources find
your information because anybody can go in there make their
own website and put in any kind of garbage or

(40:23):
nonsense that they want to and try to make you believe.
And it's interesting how it's almost like nowadays nobody ever
goes to like a physical library and looks up information
in you know, paper encyclopedias and all. Everything's now internet based,
and so in today's world, it's very hard to discern

(40:45):
what's real and what's faith.

Speaker 2 (40:46):
Yes, but I'm going to argue that it always was
because you could go down to the news stand and
buy a magazine that was full of bullshit. I'm thinking
of Fate magazine as an example of that. I don't
know if anybody ever heard the Fate magazine, but it
was all full of stories about ghosts and psychics and stuff.
It's supposedly all real.

Speaker 3 (41:05):
Stuff, right.

Speaker 2 (41:07):
There were plenty of books out there that were published
full of bullshit, you know, And so it just it
might not have been as prevalent as it is today
because the internet's right there and more people can access it.
But this bad to me that bad information was always there.
It just wasn't as accessible as it is today, like
I say, because we do have the Internet, but the

(41:28):
amount of it I think is about the same. Does
that make any sense at all? Most of the time
I don't make sense, but every once in a while
I have this revelation.

Speaker 3 (41:38):
So yeah, yeah, it definitely made you know, before the internet, Yeah,
there were definitely books and magazines. I remember, I don't
know what was it, the National Inquirer or whatever. You
used to have all kinds of ridiculous stories in there. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (41:50):
No, yeah, but like Fate magazine was like, wasn't like that, right?
Everybody knew The Inquirer was bullshit.

Speaker 4 (41:56):
Right.

Speaker 2 (41:56):
People took Fate Magazine seriously with their stories of and
psychics and stuff. Right, That's what I mean. I know
there's like the Weekly World News, great entertainment, but people
don't take that seriously. People did take other things seriously.

Speaker 3 (42:09):
Right, And one of the dangers was, especially if you
were in if you were in school or college or
something where you know before if you had if you
if you were given like a book report or some
sort of topic to research you, you everyone knew. Okay,
I have to go to the library. I have to
search through the encyclopedia, the Cyclopedia Britannica and all that

(42:29):
and find just the facts, just the data that talked
about this top and most schools you know, accepted that
as Okay, that's that's real data, that's fact at all.
And now you can you can kind of do that
now on the internet. But I think there's so much
more that you're like, I don't know, I'm reading this.
Is this right? So now I've gotta let me see

(42:51):
if I can go through maybe a dozen other websites
to see if all of their data matches and says
the same thing, then maybe it's a little credible, or
to find a website that's that that is actually credible,
credibly sourced.

Speaker 1 (43:04):
You know, it's a it's a strange economy, and that
information wants to be free, and bad information especially is free,
but good information to gain and for human beings to
gain new knowledge and new information about the universe, it costs.
It costs time and effort and money to do that.
And so it's that good information is in things you

(43:27):
kind of tend to have to go pay for because
it costs money to get that information. So you have
to go find the books and pay for the journals.
And I know you can find journals that are free
and things like that, but it's a little more challenge.
It takes a little more work to go and find
accurately sourced information, right, that is actually peer reviewed, that's
been studied, that's been accepted by the scientific community. Yeah, oh,

(43:49):
there you go, Aaron.

Speaker 2 (43:50):
We got to stop. Blind Limey says, it's always frustrated
me when someone demands evidence and then dismisses it as
fake because it doesn't match their narrative. So what do
you what kind of truth you got for him? There?

Speaker 1 (44:01):
Erin, did you know the wooly mammos were alive when
humans built the Great Pyramids?

Speaker 2 (44:06):
I didn't know that.

Speaker 1 (44:07):
Yeah I did not.

Speaker 2 (44:08):
I did. Actually, they were like they were living on
Wrangel Island.

Speaker 1 (44:12):
That's crazy.

Speaker 2 (44:12):
Yeah, so you got two facts two facts there? Actually?

Speaker 1 (44:15):
Yeah, thanks thanks Blindlimy.

Speaker 2 (44:17):
All right, Eric, we're back to you now. Sorry.

Speaker 3 (44:21):
Oh that's good. I didn't know that, but that's really cool. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (44:25):
So yeah. When I was in school, we were taught
not to use a encyclopedia. You couldn't so you couldn't
source as encyclopedia. I think the equivalent today would be Wikipedia. Right,
you can't source Wikipedia as a source because you have
to go to the things behind Wikipedia to find actual
accurate information. It takes work. It takes work and effort
to find accurate information. Like I said, bad information really

(44:45):
wants to be free.

Speaker 3 (44:46):
Yeah, oh yeah. And I remember when Wikipedia started and
they were like, we see Wikipedia, I think used to
be locked down so only certain people could enter information.
And so they're like, okay, well this replaces paper encyclopedia.
Now you have a digital encyclopedia and the information we're
putting in here is all credible. But then they opened
it up and they're like, okay, now anybody can write

(45:08):
whatever they want to in it. I'm like, well, now
it's not credible. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (45:11):
I think Wikipedia is a good place to start. I
think I think overall times, maybe demonstrated to Wikipedia can
for the most part be trusted that there are really
good people out there that that monitor and watch and
make sure that only accurate information is out there. But
you can get inaccurate information. But that's usually the first
place I go, just because usually when I want to
learn learn something that's I just want to know high

(45:34):
to high level about X, Y and Z. So I
don't really need to go to the library and look
up books on Gerbils because Wikipedia gives me the information
that I need do you trust Wikipedia?

Speaker 3 (45:46):
Not so much anymore, but I don't use it as
much as I used to. I think I did at
the beginning, but after a while when people start when
it started getting a bad wrap, I said, I'm not
sure if I can trust it anymore, and so I
haven't used it in a lot a long time.

Speaker 1 (46:00):
Yeah, that's my first source. What do you So, where
do you go to get your your accurate information?

Speaker 3 (46:05):
Well, I may, I guess, it depends on what I'm
looking up, but I may try to go to maybe
like a government source or an educational source. So's something
that's like an that's an established place that would be
if I was to go there in person and look
up a paper book, right, would they have that same
information digital?

Speaker 1 (46:26):
Yeah? So yeah, go to a dot gov website, a
dot edu website. Make sure it's a repeatable dot edu
of course. I think Google Journal, No, no, not, what's it called?
Google has a place where they published journals. What's it called?
I can't remember, but sure.

Speaker 2 (46:40):
But one of the problems I know is you're going
to get a lot of people that don't trust any
government information at all.

Speaker 1 (46:45):
Google Scholar, Yeah, there you go. Yeah, thanks, those are
all those are all good sources. Textbooks are good, are
good places to go because that those are you know, uh,
being used to teach people what the what the most
accurate knowledge is in the world. So those are good.
Those are good sources as well.

Speaker 2 (47:04):
Yeah, trade journals.

Speaker 3 (47:05):
But yeah, it's very so the only so I just
wanted to call and give some information about what I
experienced when I was younger and how things have changed
with the Internet. I think the younger generations now probably
don't get that experience or training. They don't get that etiquette.
They they don't know what I or any of us
went through when we were younger where we didn't have

(47:26):
the internet.

Speaker 1 (47:27):
So yeah, I'll have to my kids are in high school,
one just recently graduate. I'll ask them what they got
taught as far as how to how to write papers
and how to do research and where to go because
it's so different today than it was. You know, back
when I was doing in high school and doing research,
you actually had to go to go to You actually
had to go to the books, right, You had to.
You had some people to want the research papers. They

(47:48):
would go they would drive two hours south to the
University of Oregon Library and to do to do their research.
And they'd have to get all the quotes and write
note cards and take it home and cite their sources.
And if you forgot to write down the source information,
guess what, you have to drive back down to Eugene
to get the book citation that you could use in
your paper. So, yeah, that's that's the way I was
taught to do research was you got to read it.

(48:10):
You got to read it in a book.

Speaker 2 (48:11):
I remember driving two hours to a library so I
could read a paper that was just in that library
again on a university campus.

Speaker 3 (48:19):
Yeah, and if you were lucky enough, your parents actually
bought a whole set of encyclopedias for you at home.

Speaker 2 (48:26):
Yes, yeah, we had one. I was lucky.

Speaker 1 (48:29):
Yeah, we had one with the life books, the book
about fishes and reptiles. We had those two. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
but we had encyclopedia and those books.

Speaker 2 (48:37):
Yeah, we had Encyclopedia Britannic at my house. I was lucky.

Speaker 1 (48:41):
The people used to make money doing that, man going
door to door selling the encyclopedia selling knowledge. Man, Man,
times have changed.

Speaker 2 (48:50):
Knowledge is free, damn it. But but I think you're
right though, I think I think there is a need
for experts still, you know, there we could There is
so much bad information out there. It is really hard
to find good information sometimes if you don't know what
you're what to look for. And I mean I see
it on a weekly basis here in my store where

(49:11):
people come in out with all kinds of bad information
about rocks and crystals that they believe and it just
isn't true. And it's really hard to fight back on that.
When you know somebody has read something on thirty websites
and then they come in and see some guy wearing
a rainbow tie with long hair. It's trying to tell him, no,
everything you were told is wrong, everything you've read for
the last six months is wrong, all of it. And

(49:34):
they don't want to hear it, you know. And and
a lot of them really want to believe these things.
I mean, that's that's that happened to me. I wanted
to believe that the crystals had these magic powers. I
wanted to believe in that we were all one. You
know that. Yeah, I mean this is I still kind
of believe we're all one in a way, but I mean, like,
but on a spiritual, metaphysical sense, we were all one,

(49:56):
and I don't know that that's true.

Speaker 1 (49:58):
So yeah, I think I think we believe what we
want to believe when it comes down to it.

Speaker 2 (50:02):
Yeah, and we can sometimes convince our songs.

Speaker 3 (50:05):
So yeah, you're you're definitely right when you said that.
When people research on the internet and if you read, say,
if you read like two or three dozen websites about
this one particular topic that you're interested in, and some
of them say what you want them or what you
believe in, or that they confirm you, and others are
against what you believe, So you want to hold to well,

(50:27):
I believe in this. So I'm just going to believe
in the ones that agree with me, and I'm going
to ignore the ones that don't agree with me. And
I'm like, well, that's not really how good research is done.

Speaker 1 (50:36):
Yeah, And also good information is also nuanced and complex,
and there's lots of gray that's not black and white.
And guess what the human brain doesn't like. The human
brain doesn't like nuance, it doesn't like complexity, it doesn't
like gray. It wants black and white. And so we
were constantly fighting our own brain, and we have to

(50:57):
tell our brain to stop it, or you.

Speaker 2 (51:00):
Become an expert on something, the gray or the topic
becomes yeah, yeah, I.

Speaker 1 (51:04):
Mean, for all intents and purposes, evolution is a law
of the of the earth. Right is what is the
one of the one of the phenomenon in nature that
is the most document, has the most evidence. The gravity
is the same thing, right, the forces. But yet we
call them, the scientists call them the theory of evolution,
the theory of you know whatever. And that makes people think, well,
well that if it's it's just a theory, right, It's like, no,

(51:27):
it really is a law. But the people that are experts,
they're like, we could learn something new, and it could
be it could change and be different, and and that
just does not go over well with with most people.
They don't they don't want to. They don't want things
to be like, it's squishy, it could be squishy, yeah, Timmy, whymy,
Jeremy Barramy, you know, it doesn't. It's just yeah, we're fine.

(51:48):
We're our own worst enemies, man.

Speaker 3 (51:49):
And and this is something that bothers me. I listened to.
I think I listened to way too much atheist stuff
and YouTube channels and all, but something that and I
listened to a lot of people that argue and say no,
you're wrong, and you're all science is wrong, and scientist
all of them like, wait a minute. What really bothers
me is that nobody said that a scientist will will

(52:11):
learn and study and research something and find an answer
and then boom stop, that's it. This is the answer
from now to eternity. It's like, no, that's not how
it works. That's this is the best date. With all
of the evidence that they've found, studied and learned and
research and everything, this is the best that they have
at this particular moment. Be high.

Speaker 2 (52:31):
Now.

Speaker 3 (52:32):
As they keep going, they might say, hey, here's something
we haven't experienced or discovered yet, and now we've just
discovered it's this changes everything. It could change it a
little bit, it could change it a lot. Now we
can adjump what we've learned before and now say hey
this is new. We now adjusting what we've learned now
this is the new uh fact or evidence at all.

Speaker 1 (52:53):
Yeah, And that's a feature of science, right, that's both
points of sciences is to example, Yeah, go ahead, Oh sorry.

Speaker 3 (53:01):
The example I always like to use is I like dinosaurs.
So if you look back from you know, decades ago
when they first discovered dinosaurs, they said, oh, well, first
of all, they were lizards, and they walked upright dragging
their tails behind them, and they moved really slow, and
that's what everybody believed. And they even built the skeletons

(53:23):
wrong in the museum.

Speaker 2 (53:24):
And a spike on their nose.

Speaker 3 (53:27):
Yeah. And as time went by, they learned more, they
studied more, they researched more than they're like, wait a minute,
we're wrong. They actually don't drag their tails. The tails
are up. They actually don't, you know, they don't. They're
not lizards but more like birds, you know.

Speaker 2 (53:41):
So it's not a nose spike, it's a thumb. That's true.
That was something that actually happened.

Speaker 3 (53:49):
So to me, it's it seems kind of ridiculous to
say science learn something.

Speaker 2 (53:54):
And sorry, Eric, I got to stop you right there.
I got we got five dollars from Phil Honig, Australian Phil.

Speaker 1 (54:02):
Phil. We're giving the fun facts here, man. You don't
get to give us fun facts. We're giving the fun
facts here.

Speaker 2 (54:09):
Hey, But that's cool. Countries like France, Germany and Poland
all have an element named after him. But there's a
small village in Sweden that has four. So that came
from Phil coming back at you, Phil. The Gulf of
California is a spreading zone. Many millions of years from now,
it will be like the Pacific Ocean, the Gulf of Mexico. Yeah,

(54:33):
it'll keep Yeah, Baja will go one way and Mexico
will go the other. Yes, and the golf being as
big as the Pacific eventually.

Speaker 1 (54:41):
Most people say theory, but what they mean is hypothesis.
This is from Free Jimmy.

Speaker 2 (54:46):
I'm sorry, Eric.

Speaker 1 (54:47):
Yeah, a theory is the best explanation supported by facts
we currently have. Yes, we use the word theory to
denote that our knowledge is never complete. Our knowledge is
never complete. We're always learning more things. But one thing
that we do know that it's not probably not going
to change. It's a theory of continental movement. My fun
fact about contents moving is they move at the rate
of your fingernail. That's how that's how moved. How fast

(55:10):
contents move, however fast your figuernails grow.

Speaker 2 (55:13):
That's amazing actually when you think about it. Okay, back
to Eric, No, sorry, Eric.

Speaker 3 (55:17):
It's okay. No, I think I think when we stopped,
I was I was at my stopping point.

Speaker 2 (55:26):
I kind of I kind of like this thing, but
it does kind of mess up your conversation sometimes.

Speaker 1 (55:32):
Yeah, yeah, it's and it's important to realize that science
is always evolving, We're always learning new things. Something being
a theory is a feature, and if we I would
really just encourage people to accept the squishiness of science
and that it does change. And there's no black and white,
there's no this is always this will always be true

(55:53):
in science. There's we could always learn something new.

Speaker 2 (55:56):
And there's always every time you find if you're a
scientist and you just got something, there's gonna be one
hundred other scientists are going to say you're wrong and
try to prove it. So and that's the way it
should be. I mean, it really should so.

Speaker 3 (56:07):
Yeah, And I'll tell you, I tell everybody this now.
I used I'm an atheist now, but I used to
be a Catholic.

Speaker 2 (56:14):
And I'm glad you got better.

Speaker 3 (56:16):
I'm I know me too. But and I used to
teach adults about Catholicism. And there was a guy who
was a super skeptic and he's like, I don't believe anything,
and he says and he says to me, well, what's
your proof? What do you have? You know? What can
you show me? Or how can I? How can I
believe all this stuff without saying anything? And I'm like,

(56:36):
I said, you know what, you're asking really good questions.
And you know what a lot of people will tell
you don't question the religion, just believe it, don't question,
And I say, no, question everything. If something doesn't make
sense to you, question it, read about it, look it up,
find the answer. You know, I encourage you to constantly
question what you believe. I don't care if you are

(56:57):
what what religion you are or if you're not a religion.
Constantly constantly questioning and trying. That's the answer that's satisfied. Yep.

Speaker 2 (57:06):
That's the secret to having an open mind, really, isn't it.
I Mean, too many people think having an open mind
means believing in alternative facts, right, And that's just following
of Shepherd with a smaller flock. That's all that its.
Having an open mind is the ability to take what
you already know and believe to be true and re
examining it and throwing it away if you actually realized

(57:26):
you were wrong. That's what having an open mind is.

Speaker 1 (57:29):
And as Chloe said earlier, being curious, Yeah, curious, curious.
Being curious is an antidote to dogma and hold it
on the beliefs for bad reasons. Yeah, sure enough.

Speaker 3 (57:39):
Well that's yeah, So that's everything. And but I do
appreciate you, you know, have me on the show and
let me voice my opinion.

Speaker 1 (57:47):
Well, thank you calling Eric. We appreciate the discussion. It
was good.

Speaker 2 (57:49):
Yeah, Well, appreciate you calling Eric. Feel free to call
back anytime. It's been a great conversation.

Speaker 3 (57:54):
All right, will do, Thanks so much, thank you, Okay,
take care.

Speaker 1 (57:57):
Bye bye.

Speaker 2 (57:58):
That was a great call. That was a good Oh yeah,
when we got lucky, we got two good calls in
a row. How about that? Isn't that great?

Speaker 1 (58:04):
Well let's break the streak. Who's next.

Speaker 2 (58:06):
We're gonna talk to John he am in Canada. And
all I got All I got is it says curiosity. Okay,
So hey John, what's up? It's good to talk to
you John. How you been. I haven't talked to you
in a long time.

Speaker 1 (58:21):
I also want to I'm doing well, Jonathan is the
first time we've spoken. Is great. Great to talk to
you and finding Mitya.

Speaker 2 (58:27):
Likewise, I missed you, John, I really did. I honestly
really did. Mische I'm glad. I'm glad you called tonight.

Speaker 7 (58:34):
I really a create that I would do. I'll think
that's curiosity is a good thing, and I agree.

Speaker 2 (58:40):
Yeah, you seem like you've been a lot more curious
in the last six months or so. Is that is
that a thing?

Speaker 4 (58:47):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (58:47):
It is.

Speaker 7 (58:48):
I've always good about the world around me. I want
I want to know more because the way you gain, no,
that's the only way that you gain.

Speaker 2 (58:54):
Yeah, yeah, I agree. I agree. So how how is
your how is your path going for your right now?
Are you doing well? It's everything working out for you? Yes?

Speaker 7 (59:04):
Yes, see the thing I still have some a lot
of questions, but curiosity, I just want to I just
want to say that how do they have now? And
what's really stiff? Well you stubbled that. Well, I already
know the end. I don't need to invest that.

Speaker 2 (59:18):
Part, right, Yeah, exactly, because if you believe something, you
don't need to investigate it any further. Right, And you've
already you've already got you know, you've been convinced, and
you don't have to do any researcher anymore any And
think about it anymore? Yeah, I agree, I agree.

Speaker 3 (59:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (59:32):
So how is how have you been curiously? What if
how is curious your curiosity improves your life? Lady, what
have you been curious about and investigating?

Speaker 3 (59:41):
John?

Speaker 7 (59:41):
Okay, well, okay, well here's the well here's question. How
is it that intelligent? Well, well, well, I believe in
something without every seeing? Friends of God, does you can't
see yet? If you ask these people, do you believe
in a progon l or even other gods? Still say
a nonsense? But when it comes to God their choice,
they'll be like, yes, I know he exists. I don't
prove it.

Speaker 2 (01:00:00):
I I you what Darren, were You're about to say
something I was about to say? I think a lot
of it, John, is they were taught this from being
a very small child, like almost from the time that
they can understand language. They're being taught that this is
the way it is. There's let's just take the Christian God,
because we all know the Christian God. There's this Anthony

(01:00:22):
that lives up in the sky. He created the universe.
He looks down on you, he sees everything that you
do all the time. He's created a system here for
everybody to live withinside of and there are these rules
that He's made and you have to live by these rules.
And if you live by these rules, you get to
go to paradise and live there forever. Right, And it
is just drilled into you from a child. From the

(01:00:44):
time you're two years old to the time you're ten
twelve years old. You are completely told that this is true.
And you're being told it's true by people you trust,
by your parents, by the minister at the church, by
the policeman who lives down the street. Everybody believes this
and thinks it's true. So it's easy for you to
fall into the idea that it has to be true.

(01:01:08):
Since all these people, all these people like trust, these
smart people around me, they all believe it, it has
to be true. See, it's easy to fall into that trap.

Speaker 3 (01:01:16):
You know.

Speaker 7 (01:01:17):
But at some point, when you're doing an adult to
start thinking for yourself, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:01:24):
Not everybody has that curiosity. And one of the things
is too, when you're being indoctrinated into this idea of God,
you're also being indoctrinated into the idea that you shouldn't
question it. If you know, you should totally believe everything
that God says. He's wiser than you are. He's smarter
than you. You shouldn't question it. If something seems bad

(01:01:45):
that he did, it's not bad. You just don't understand it, right,
it's just you know, that's just God's way, it's the way.
You know, that's just it's God's plan.

Speaker 7 (01:01:54):
But it's also the penalty of death.

Speaker 2 (01:01:56):
I mean, yeah, yeah, yeah, and go.

Speaker 1 (01:01:59):
Ahead, and sorry, I was gonna say, I just think.
I think for me, it comes down to one word belong.
Where As human beings were a social species, we survived
and evolved in groups together. And one of the worst
things you can do as part of a social group
is to be ostracized, because that meant you weren't going
to survive anymore. And so, uh, it's really really important

(01:02:22):
for us to belong, and our brain really wants to belong.
And so when everybody around you believe something, it's it's
almost impossible not to also believe that. It takes a lot,
it takes a different brain almost, it takes a different
way of believing, and so you really have to be
careful that you're not just believing things because everybody else
around you, around you believes you believes it. So what

(01:02:44):
do you think, John, Why do you think people educated
people believe some of these things?

Speaker 7 (01:02:49):
People be Okay, I believe it's for so ovious if
an he just said the indoctrination, But it's also I
also feel that the penalty of hell that if you
question the God, he will send you down there. But
I think my musical important reasons are a a sense
of comfort because let's face it, it's kind of confiding
to know that up there in the sky or somewhere
in reality is an all power of financial being who

(01:03:10):
has the best interest at heart. But it's like it's
like the ultimate parent, you know, like this guy is
taking care of me, and he cares about me because
what I'm doing, because what I'm having said, And if
I pray too long enough, you might ask something, you
might give it to me. And he's good peptic something.

Speaker 1 (01:03:24):
And that's really powerful.

Speaker 4 (01:03:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 7 (01:03:26):
And also another thing, another reason why people believe is
that the promise of eternal life. I think that's the
biggest reason is fear of death. That to gain the
fact that when it's over, as soon as you close
your eyes, it's all done. Like close your eyes and
this darkness is silence.

Speaker 2 (01:03:40):
This nice That sounds awesome to me. I mean, seriously,
that sounds awesome to me. You know, after the noise
of my love of the world, is being able to
just tune it all off and not worry about anything anymore.
That seems like to me, that seems paradise, just having
to be able to just flip the switch and it's done.

Speaker 1 (01:03:58):
Yeah. I have an opposite you. I'm terrified. I'm terrified
of dying.

Speaker 2 (01:04:03):
Oh yeah, a lot of people are right. You know,
I've been really close to dying. I just had a
I just had a kind of an episode just recently.
But I've been so close to dying before. I've had
a heart attack and stuff. I just don't care. It
just you know, it doesn't It doesn't scare me anymore.

Speaker 1 (01:04:17):
I guess no, I really I really like your points, John,
that fear of death can influence people to want to believe,
and the comfort of knowing feeling like there's something bigger
than you that you're connected to, that that there's there's
some being out there that has your best interest and
is looking out for you. I think those are two
really good reasons that people continue to believe even though
there's really no evidence for that their beliefs.

Speaker 2 (01:04:38):
Yeah, I believe. I believe that too. Yeah, I think
you're you're you're making some really really good sailing points
here tonight. John. I gotta say, oh, well.

Speaker 7 (01:04:47):
Thank you. I appreciate that. Then I appreciate the work
that you guys. Well, anyway, I think I should let
you go so you can talk tolls. But have a
good night, you.

Speaker 2 (01:04:55):
Know, dude, John, do me a favor next time I'm
on call me again. Okay, I I really do miss you, man.
I always love talking to you and I miss you.

Speaker 1 (01:05:03):
Good conversation.

Speaker 2 (01:05:04):
All right, you have a great night, John.

Speaker 1 (01:05:07):
You know, John has come a long way, you think. Yeah,
if people don't think, if people don't think that we
change people's minds of this show, does anything. Somebody needs
to go back and make a super clip of John's
calls and uh you'll see, you'll see it. You'll see
some changes there. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:05:22):
So yeah, I think a little bit. I think a
little bit. Yeah, I think. I hopefully when John calls
back and he's talking to other hosts that they're you know,
they're they're a little bit nicer to him than maybe
some of the hosts have been in the past. Because
he's still on his journey and he's not you know,
he needs some help along the way. So thanks John,
thanks for calling me.

Speaker 1 (01:05:42):
Thanks for calling John.

Speaker 2 (01:05:43):
Appreciate it. You have no idea. I'm glad that you
called me tonight, So I really did miss calhim talking
to you. John has always been my favorite caller, believe
it or not.

Speaker 1 (01:05:52):
I'm really I'm really, I'm really God I got to
talk to him tonight.

Speaker 2 (01:05:54):
So I know a lot of people are always complaining
about him and stuff, but John has always been my
favorite person to take calls from, So I appreciate that.
I appreciate the journey that he's been on.

Speaker 1 (01:06:04):
Well do we have any super Nope, no more super Chat.
Nobody's interrupting us. Pockets and run drive. People just really
are interested in these in these very thoroughly deeply researched
fun facts that we've got ready to go. We've got
lined up, we have anyybody else in the calling in
the queue? I don't have access to it.

Speaker 2 (01:06:20):
Oh yeah, that's it. I mean we were we do
We pretty much uh depleted our uh our callers for tonight. Yeah, unfortunately,
but we had three really wonderful calls.

Speaker 1 (01:06:31):
Did we not I thought we did. Yeah, I really enjoyed.
I really did all our calls tonight. Yeah, I really
did too.

Speaker 2 (01:06:37):
I really enjoyed tonight's show. I want to thank you
for Aaron for being here my pleasure.

Speaker 1 (01:06:44):
It's a it's a privilege to be here.

Speaker 2 (01:06:46):
I always enjoy working with you. I think you're a
pretty sharp guys, I really do. I always have I'm
in your corner for you to get more, to get
more airtimes.

Speaker 1 (01:06:56):
I think I think you're my personal cheerleader.

Speaker 3 (01:06:58):
Kelly.

Speaker 2 (01:06:59):
Yeah, I been. You know, every there's everybody there. There's
a lot of people that I work with on on
nonprofits and I really think need to get it, you know,
get a little boost. And it's really good to see him.
I've championed a few people off and.

Speaker 1 (01:07:13):
I'm gonna say, I'm gonna I'm gonna get get you
some business cars and your title is gonna be Aaron's
personal cheerleader.

Speaker 2 (01:07:18):
There you go, there you go.

Speaker 1 (01:07:19):
So I appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (01:07:21):
And I'm looking at the I'm looking at the notes
here and it says we want to thank Kelly for
helping out tonight. Ask post so here you know what
bring off the backup post Kelly, Oh no, it's Eli.

Speaker 1 (01:07:33):
Oh what's happening? What's going on?

Speaker 2 (01:07:35):
I lost well, I was Dan was supposed to do
this show tonight. I was the backup post, and so
I jumped in. And Eli was amazing and was able
to pop right in and be the guy, be the
man on the spot and jump into the backup. So
at a moment's notice.

Speaker 1 (01:07:49):
You're muted, my friend.

Speaker 2 (01:07:51):
Talking like an angel, still talking like an angel, So
that we don't have Eli kind of problem, he says.

Speaker 1 (01:08:02):
I don't know technical technical.

Speaker 2 (01:08:03):
Problems, yeah, Eli said, And he's like on the crew too,
he should be able to take care of that. Yeah,
I know going on there.

Speaker 1 (01:08:10):
The backup post is supposed to have technical problems.

Speaker 2 (01:08:14):
Problem on the backup posts having technical problems.

Speaker 1 (01:08:18):
Now we're now we're one host away from just total chaos.

Speaker 2 (01:08:22):
So because we can't hear Eli, though, I am going
to remind everybody what the question of the week was.
The prop for this week is complete this sentence. If
I were a ghost, i'd blank just the fuck with
people kind of on the video comment below, not in
the chat, but on the below only. I don't think

(01:08:43):
you can do it until after the show's over. But
tune in at the beginning of next week and we
will talk. We'll cover the top three answers, so and
one of them just might be yours. So stick around
in discord, uh Eli and I aren't going to be
hanging out there for after show for a little while,
So head on over there at tiny dot CC slash

(01:09:03):
ACD Discord and I think that is about it, unless
than anybody lest there and you get oh, you know what, Aaron,
where can we find you?

Speaker 1 (01:09:12):
You can find me here on the shows. Well occasionally
I'll be here on the shows. You can send an
an email to the Atheist Community Aaron DoD Jensen at
Atheist Dutch Community dot org. Send me an email.

Speaker 2 (01:09:24):
Cool.

Speaker 1 (01:09:24):
That's that's where you can find me if you're in
the Pacific. If you're in the Pacific Northwest, I'm I'm
hang around Portland, Oregon, So that's where you can find me. Nice.

Speaker 2 (01:09:33):
Nice, And we really appreciate you tuning in tonight and
hope to see you over on Discord. We hope to
see you back here next week. And remember, folks, keep
wanting the truth.

Speaker 1 (01:10:05):
Watch the non profits and join the hosts in the
live chart. Visit tiny dot C c slash yt np

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