Truth Wanted 08.32 08-08-2025 with Kelley Laughlin and Eli Slack

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
You know, a lot of people believe in a lot
of different things, from ghosts and spirits to pseudohistory and
pseudoscience and conspiracy theories, to even aliens and lizard people
and a whole host and array of other paranormal beliefs.
Do you believe in anything like this? Well, if you do,
we want to talk to you, so give us a
call because the show is starting right now. Hi, and

(00:28):
welcome back to another episode of Truth Wanted. I am
your host, Kelly Laughlin, and this is a live college
show that happens every single Friday night at seven pm Central,
where we talk to people about what they believe and
why they believe it. And if you like, you can
actually call us at one five one two nine nine

(00:49):
two four to two, or you can contact us through
your computer at tiny dot cc slash called tw Truth
Wanted is a product of the Atheist Community of Austin,
a five oh one C three no nonit organization dedicated
to the promotion of atheism, critical thinking, secular humanism, and
the separation of religion and government. And each week we

(01:13):
usually have a very special guest and my well, this
week's different. Now, actually, my very special guest today is
Eli Slack. Hi, how you do he?

Speaker 2 (01:23):
I you know in my mind before you, like, during
the entry, I was like, he's gonna say this week
is different, and I'm totally I hope I really have that.

Speaker 3 (01:32):
Either.

Speaker 1 (01:32):
I wouldn't have said that except I feel like Eli
and I are close friends. I hope you feels the same.

Speaker 2 (01:37):
So absolutely not.

Speaker 1 (01:38):
I'm glad they have you here with us this week though.

Speaker 2 (01:41):
Me too, Man, I'm excited to be here. Thanks.

Speaker 1 (01:43):
I am too. I'm looking forward to the Seenior next week,
so I can't wait.

Speaker 2 (01:46):
Yeah. Absolutely, writing down together for the back c probably
longer longer than I want to be cramped in a
car with you, but yeah, it'll be Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:54):
Well at least i'll shower before, right. Yeah. I think
I'm hoping we have a really great show tonight. We
we don't any calls lined up in the qu yet,
but hopefully that'll change. If you're out there listening, we
want to talk to you and give us a call.
Even if you don't believe in one of those things
I was talking about, call us up and tell me
why you don't believe it. That might be a conversation

(02:17):
in and of itself. But before we do get started
with the show, I want to give the last week's
results of We Want the Truth or the WWTT segment,
and you know, to help me do that, I'm going
to bring up John the Skeptic. That's me, John.

Speaker 4 (02:31):
Oh, Hi, I was just saying, mind my own business. Yeah,
that's me. I'm here, here, I am. It's nice to
be in this side for a change, just like just relaxing,
sitting in my quiet little box and then going, oh,
Kelly needs me. I'm up.

Speaker 1 (02:43):
Yeah, it's fun right. I love being the backup post, honestly,
I really do. It's when I think I really look
forward to doing it. So what are you doing for
us this week?

Speaker 2 (02:53):
So?

Speaker 3 (02:53):
Well?

Speaker 4 (02:54):
Last week? Last week we asked the question what do
demons do when they're not torturing or tempting us? And
here are some of our favorite answers and number three
Skepty spike h. What do demons do when they're not
torturing or tempting us? The long walks by the lakes
of fire, obviously enjoying the occasional summoning to get out

(03:16):
of the house. Maybe a tacko on Tuesdays, stuff like that.
Genius number.

Speaker 1 (03:24):
I have really really really hot sauce on those tacos
down there.

Speaker 4 (03:29):
It will burn your mouth off.

Speaker 2 (03:30):
That's what they go for, really change it.

Speaker 4 (03:37):
And some ice cream as well, just to really cool down.
I don't know how well ice cream would keep down there,
but never mind, we'll move on.

Speaker 1 (03:45):
The thing is, I'm afraid that I would want that
ice cream. Didn't find out it was hab a neuro
ice cream.

Speaker 4 (03:49):
Oh yeah, and then just I don't know, is that hell?
I don't know. If you're enjoying yourself down there, maybe
some of some of that ice cream will help you out.
I don't know. Maybe number two, number two, we got
Chuck Gaidos. What do demons do when they're not torturing
or tempting us? They maintain Hell's Internet access by blocking
everything except movie spoilers, beginners, violent practice sessions, and proofs

(04:13):
of God using Bayesian analysis.

Speaker 1 (04:17):
So that's really good. Yeah, Internet from Hell.

Speaker 4 (04:24):
There's certain other in the in the States that I
live in, there's a lack of access to other websites
as well. So I feel like Kentucky's Hell at the moment.
You know, you know what I'm saying. You know what
I'm saying okay, good. Number one, secular felinist. What do
demons do when they're not torturing or tempting us performing
reverse exorcisms where they command the priest to exit the boy?

(04:50):
Oh now and then suddenly the show to katan.

Speaker 1 (04:58):
Okay, we'll have.

Speaker 4 (05:00):
To have a conversation with secular feelingists.

Speaker 3 (05:02):
There.

Speaker 4 (05:03):
No, that was good.

Speaker 1 (05:04):
I enjoyed that.

Speaker 4 (05:09):
We can't even add to that, like adding funnies to that.
You just you can't. They've they've picked and we would
just bring it down, so there's no point.

Speaker 5 (05:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (05:17):
Good. The problem for this week is what was the
fallout of Jesus turning the water into wine at that wedding? Eli?
Have you You've been given that right, so you've got
an answer ready, Yes, I have.

Speaker 2 (05:28):
I think the fallout was that people kept inviting him
to weddings so that he would turn the water into
wine and they wouldn't have to pay for an open bar.
And again to the point where like even people that
he didn't really talk to or like that much were
inviting him. He's like, am I going to have to
put myself on a cross just to get away from
you guys?

Speaker 3 (05:45):
You know?

Speaker 4 (05:45):
There is wow and that is how the birth of
Christianity came to be. Got it too much? Yeah, there
you go, Kelly.

Speaker 1 (05:55):
I should have said, did you?

Speaker 4 (05:57):
Did you have one?

Speaker 3 (05:58):
Kelly?

Speaker 4 (05:58):
Did you?

Speaker 1 (05:59):
I came up with and right away, and then I
started thinking about it afterwards, and I never came up
with a better one. And my right away one was
that there was no designated churiot drivers.

Speaker 4 (06:09):
Oh that's true. Also, yeah, I only saw this just
before the show, and I thought that Jesus probably waited
until they were already drunk and then turned the water
into the really cheap wine. And then someone found out,
because that's like a wedding, you bring out the cheap
wine later, right, So nobody likes him because he turned
it into cheap wine.

Speaker 2 (06:29):
Yeah, like what if? Like somebody was like, you know what,
I need it?

Speaker 4 (06:31):
I need it.

Speaker 2 (06:32):
I've had enough, I need to drink some water. And
then he was just like poop.

Speaker 4 (06:35):
Ah, sorry Jesus. He's always up to miss Jim. We
can't wait to see what what answers we get next week,
So just comment on this video, not in the live chat,
in the comments underneath the main video, and maybe your
comments will be read out on next week's episode.

Speaker 1 (06:54):
Hopefully. Thanks for doing that with us, John, And you
got to pay attention because I am going to bring
you up at the end of the show.

Speaker 4 (07:01):
So okay, I won't okay, I won't take my camera
with me to the post.

Speaker 1 (07:07):
All right, thanks again, saying alrighty, So Eli, what what
have you been up to you lately?

Speaker 2 (07:14):
Oh man, A lot? Been doing some nonprofits catch me
over there most of the time, and kind of doing
some You might have seen me on the crew cam
here sometimes as well or on Sunday, so I've been
doing some video stuff and editing.

Speaker 1 (07:31):
I was just going to ask you about how you
because I know you haven't been on the crew for
very you haven't made the switch over to crew not
too long ago. How is that? How are you liking
that as opposed to like hosting on nonprofits or here?

Speaker 2 (07:45):
Liking it?

Speaker 4 (07:45):
I think.

Speaker 2 (07:48):
Just fine? Yeah, like it. I like doing both. They
they have different, different things that that interest me about
each of them, so it's difficult to kind of, you know,
compare them, but uh, I think I think they're both in.
We can't have the show without either, so.

Speaker 1 (08:02):
Yeah, definitely, definitely. I always say that the crew is
way more important to me. At least to me, they are.
I just show up and talk, and anybody can show
up and talk anywhere, you know, but to make somebody
look good and to bring me up to everybody else
that takes the crew, and I know I couldn't do it,
So I really appreciate them absolutely. You know what, you
know what we should do just for the hell of it.
I know, I'm just going to do it. Like when

(08:23):
with the announcements, we're talking about them. Let's bring the
coupe cram up right now. There they are awesome group
of people right there. Thank you guys, thank you, thank
you all. We really appreciate it. Greg's there too. Greg
gives the best hugs.

Speaker 3 (08:37):
Man.

Speaker 2 (08:38):
I'll take that at face value. That's a fact, Like
I'll accept that as an objective truth.

Speaker 1 (08:45):
There you go. Oh you know, speaking of truth, we
are going to do super truth tonight. So if you
send us a super chat, we will stop what we're
doing unless it's the caller talking. We're not going to
interrupt the caller, but we will stop whatever we're doing
and give you a fun fact, give you a super truth.
So keep those coming in there want more super true.

Speaker 2 (09:06):
So what about you, Kelly, what have you been empty recently?

Speaker 1 (09:09):
I'm trying to do as little as possible tame.

Speaker 2 (09:11):
Yeah, failing, but.

Speaker 1 (09:13):
That's tough sometimes.

Speaker 2 (09:14):
But yeah, how's it going for you? Like how how
you said it's tough sometimes, So so you're you're not
achieving it.

Speaker 1 (09:21):
No, I'm not achieving that at all. I'm a kid.
I you know, our store is very tourist based. So
I'm just waiting till the end of summer so I
don't have to work as hard, but I'm not gonna stop.

Speaker 3 (09:31):
You know.

Speaker 1 (09:32):
The thing is, I'm probably gonna just keep working just
as hard, just on different things. So yeah, I'm hoping
to focus more on like doing doing videos so awesome.

Speaker 2 (09:40):
Yeah, you've been doing a few, uh few videos, and
I know a people around I see have been kind
of doing their own thing. Yeah, we can't necessarily talk
about any of them specifically, but I haven't.

Speaker 1 (09:51):
Done my own channel or anything yet. I've been on
a bunch of other people's shows recently, but that's that's
always fun. I enjoyed going out and meeting people.

Speaker 2 (09:58):
Yeah, I havn't just having talks, getting my point of
view out there, sharing my perspective and comparing it with
others because I know that I'm wrong sometimes, probably more
often than I think I am. But I won't I
won't figure that out until I share what I think
with someone else and they're like, well, no, I was.

Speaker 1 (10:16):
Just thinking I probably shouldn't go on so many other
people's shows because that, you know, the more i'm other
people's shows, the more people realize how and time I really.

Speaker 3 (10:26):
Sure.

Speaker 2 (10:26):
Yeah, there's it's a double edged sword, if you get
if I talk, if I get into too many situations,
I'll end up talk about something I just don't I
don't know about. I'll be wrong. But you know, I've
certainly been wrong on the internet before I'm going to
do it again.

Speaker 1 (10:40):
So I listed off a bunch of things that in
the cold open and certainly not all the possibilities there.
But I was wondering if, like in the past, did
you believe in anything like that?

Speaker 2 (10:50):
Oh? Yeah, so uh. I was convinced that ghosts and
spirits like existing like I have and siblings. I had
other family members that would say like, oh, like I
heard this, or I saw this out of the corner
of my eye, or you know, I didn't hear it,
so ooh, A random fact it is not true that

(11:11):
atoms are mostly made up of empty space. The electron
orbital cloud is the electron, it's not empty space, and
electrons have mass, so there's a mass anyway. So but yeah,
I believed in ghosts and spirits. Never never thought that
I had experienced one, but some pseudoscience stuff for sure.

(11:33):
I thought I I thought that I could could develop telekinesis.
And I tried for like solid eighteen months, just every
day just staring at stuff, waiting for it to move,
trying to figure out, you know what, thought like how
how I have to like what mode my brain has
to be and to to have telekinesis.

Speaker 1 (11:54):
Do telecesis happening? So what make the telekinesis happen? Yeah,
I'm not going to say I didn't think that way too.
At one time, you know where I had actually built
a and I don't remember where I read this at,
but built the little thing with a car with a
cardboard spinner that you could spin with your mind. But
I never got it the spin.

Speaker 2 (12:12):
So yeah, yeah, there was like pendulums and stuff where
like you can ask it a question and if it's
the answer is yes, it'll swing this way. And if
the answer is no, it'll swing this way.

Speaker 1 (12:21):
And like I even see those all the time here
up there. Hey Cynthia from Cynthia too. You want to
do you want to or you want me to.

Speaker 2 (12:31):
Know I did the last one? You got this one?

Speaker 1 (12:32):
Okay? How about the jumpstone garn It gains its name
because it resembled the juicy red seeds of a pomegranite.
Grant pomegranite garn.

Speaker 2 (12:41):
It pomegranate on it.

Speaker 1 (12:43):
Yeah, so that's cool. You're going to get a rock
fact for me.

Speaker 2 (12:47):
Yeah. I wish I had more like really simple quick
you know, quantum mechanics facts I could spin off, but
none of them are all that quick.

Speaker 1 (12:57):
Yeah, coin, Yeah, yeah, I believe that about. You know,
I've I've I got it just a very minimal understanding
of quantum physics, enough enough to make me know that
I know nothing right fortunately, or not that much. But
because I've seen a lot of talk to a lot
of people that don't realize a lot of there's a

(13:19):
lot of Dunning Kruger in quantum physics.

Speaker 2 (13:21):
Yeah, it's really it's really easy for that to take myself,
because we won't happen at least what happened for me,
because it certainly happened to me for a period of time,
and maybe even now, I think that I know more
than I do, because I don't claim to be an expert,
because I know that I'm not. But I think what
happens like people will start to make connections between different
principles and from like what I did was I would

(13:42):
like then synthesize a new idea, and then I would
look into that and be like, yeah, that's the thing
that people are like that, that's already think. So I'm
thinking like, oh, like I understand this, like it's all
coming together.

Speaker 1 (13:51):
I get it.

Speaker 2 (13:51):
And so then you think that you're just more savvy
about it than than like that that's just the way
at least, I guess I can only speak about my
own experience. But I just I just thought that I
was like this this, you know, Einstein that, and uh
I I I talk about it online less now because
I was wrong more times, uh like embarrassingly wrong more

(14:14):
times than I wanted to be. Just like just like
everybody's dead, and I'm like, all right, lest of that.

Speaker 1 (14:19):
As you get older, I think, and that might be
that I've seen the quote attributed to both Mark Mark
Twain and Abraham Lincoln. It's it's better to keep your
mouth shut and have everybody think you're an idiot that
than to open it and remove all doubt.

Speaker 2 (14:31):
Yeah, I think I think I would believe Mark Twain
over a Lincoln for that one.

Speaker 1 (14:36):
I don't know. It sounds more like something that that
Mark Twain would have said.

Speaker 2 (14:40):
Yeast it was pretty witty too, though, was he?

Speaker 1 (14:43):
I don't know about pretty witty guy?

Speaker 2 (14:46):
Was he? I did see a picture of him the
other day. They said, like, I've never met anybody in
the world that looks anything like this, just a unique
looking guy.

Speaker 1 (14:58):
He was pretty unique looking. I get people all the time,
you look just like this guy I knew, and I
always ask him, well, how old is he? And if
they were younger than me? I always say, he looks
like me. Instead, I don't look like him. He looks
like me.

Speaker 2 (15:10):
I was here first. He looks like my. More facts. Oh,
let's see, all the world's bacteria stacked up on top
of each other would stretch for ten billion light years.
What a zero point zero zero one millimeter long microbes
could wrap around the Milky Way over twenty thousand times
that's a part of the same fact.

Speaker 1 (15:30):
Interesting.

Speaker 2 (15:31):
Interesting, I mean that's what science focus dot com says.

Speaker 1 (15:35):
Oh, well, then it's got to be true.

Speaker 2 (15:38):
I don't know that. I'm just I was like, I
didn't have time to check any of these, but here's
there's a list of facts. So that's what I went with.

Speaker 1 (15:46):
If it's on the internet, it has to be true.

Speaker 2 (15:49):
Almost certainly, I was.

Speaker 1 (15:50):
I mentioned I don't know if I don't think it was.
It might have been on the show last week, but
it's some I meant to do a couple of people
over the course of the week. Is that when I
was like thirteen or fourteen and I found out what
a vanity book was, that anybody could go to a
book publisher and pay to have their own book published,
no matter what was written in it. You know, that
like blew my whole idea of like what truth was.

(16:11):
That was one of the things that really made a
difference to me and kind of like put me on
the path that I'm on today.

Speaker 2 (16:17):
So yeah, like, yeah, there's a process for making a book,
but it's not like make sure it's right.

Speaker 1 (16:22):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it lew my mind. And I was
like fifteen and my mother gave me charities of the
gods by her Von Donican to read as if it
was fact, you know, so it was Yeah. So going
back to that, did you believe any of that stuff before?

Speaker 3 (16:35):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (16:36):
Yeah, totally totally right.

Speaker 2 (16:38):
I would have I know some people that I was
friends with in high school and stuff that that buy
into the whole like, oh, they just found this huge
energy reservoir or whatever they were saying under the pyramids,
Like oh yeah, yeah, last he totally brought into that,
And I was like, they just they found something, man, Like,
there's there's more information if I now, but like you're

(17:02):
latching on new like just guesses based on what you
think it looks like you want it to look like.
And people have a hard time acrastinating. But like that,
that's the people that I that I was, you know,
close with in high school.

Speaker 1 (17:16):
So I certainly a good way to kind of that
might help debunk that is ask me if they ever
dug a hole in sand, because you really can't dig
a hole in sand, it just keeps So how do
they dig, you know, a thousand meters down in the sand.

Speaker 2 (17:32):
Well, isn't it true that there is some empty space
below the pyramids. But that doesn't mean that it's might be.

Speaker 1 (17:37):
It's it's it's a it's a carst area. It's all limestone, right,
So like like in the Valley of the Kings, there
was a whole bunch of natural caves already, which is
why they started using that area for tombs. But there
is there. So there are natural voids in the limestone
in a carst area, So yeah, there probably is. I
think the the original King's chamber underneath the pyramid, I

(17:59):
think that was like half of a natural opening at
one time. If I'm not mistaken. I could be wrong
about that, but I think I remember reading that somewhere.

Speaker 2 (18:06):
Okay, so interesting. I didn't know that. Good to know.
The more you know that, you guys just got a
fact for free.

Speaker 1 (18:12):
Yeah you just got a lot of You just got
a super fact for free. Supertruth.

Speaker 2 (18:16):
Oh yeah, supertruth, super truth.

Speaker 1 (18:17):
We'll get we'll get it together.

Speaker 2 (18:19):
Now, we'll just let's just change the name again what
I don't know, we'll just call it something else eventually.

Speaker 1 (18:24):
Whatever we want. We're in charge here as arbitrary.

Speaker 2 (18:28):
We made it up. It's fun though, I like it.

Speaker 1 (18:31):
We do have open lines, so if you're out there.
Give us a call, man, I want to talk to you,
even if you no longer believe something like that. Give
us a story about something that happened to you in
the past that made you think, you know, maybe maybe
something is going on here. I worked on a haunted
bar once, and I saw a few things that made
me wonder. You know, I never really fully bought into
the haunted bar thing, but I saw a couple of

(18:52):
things that made me wonder, you know.

Speaker 2 (18:54):
And this was like, this was during your like skeptical
secular days.

Speaker 1 (18:57):
Yeah, this was yeah, yeah, it was like twenty years ago.
It was as I was just, you know, starting to
start thinking that way, I was starting to move my
way out of the woo, you know. Yeah, okay, but
it was like everything I saw was weird. Stuff like
the lights getting real bright all of a sudden, and uh,
I was. I was locking up one night and the
lights did that in the back room, and the bouncer,

(19:19):
I was that was the bar I was bar tend
in that night. The bouncer and my my future ex
wife were both waiting for me, and I walked out
of the back and of course, the place had this
reputation for being haunted, and I jokingly said, oh, the
ghost is in the back messing with the lights right now.
So they both jumped up and wanted to go see
the ghost. And they got like halfway to the door,

(19:39):
and it swung open by itself, and they both did
like a total U turn right for the front door
like they had planned, and it was so funny watch.

Speaker 2 (19:52):
I think. I can't help but immediately think like, yeah,
I can think of, you know, a plausible natural explanation
for both of those things, but it's still funny to
think about.

Speaker 1 (20:01):
Yeah, so could I And other people claim to have
seen like full body apparitions, but I never saw anything
like that.

Speaker 2 (20:08):
So that's how it always is for me. I'll hear
stories of people claiming to have seen full body apparitions,
but I've never never seen one myself, and apart from
like my brothers that might have just been trying to
mess with me because we were kids, I've never known
anybody personally to be like I currently see a ghost
right now.

Speaker 1 (20:27):
You know, we're getting a couple of calls coming in,
which is great. I'm glad to hear that. But before
we go to the calls, I got a couple of
things I want to do. I need a couple of
a couple of announcements and one other thing I want
to do too. So we we got collar hung up
screening skip okay, but we got somebody else screening in.
So I'll do those announcements anyway. Even if the back

(20:49):
cruise is coming up. We mentioned it earlier that Eli
and I were both going to be there August sixteenth,
seven pm. Tickets are selling quickly. There's just a few left,
so if you want to come and get yours and
you can join people like Caitlin, Jonathan R. And Kelly K.
That's a different Kelly, not me. I know who that is,
though they already got their tickets. And Kelly Kelly Kay

(21:12):
is the Detroit atheist queen. I'm the party King. So
you get to go on a cruise with the King
and Queen. It'll be fucking awesome. Eli will be there.
You're gonna be what the jester yes, So come and
join us. It's gonna be a lot of fun. If
you can attend, you can still help out by donating.

(21:32):
Donating I can toy boat toy boat toy boat donating
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So visit tiny dot cc slash bet Cruise to get
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You will see me on the boat. So yeah, do that.
And if you need some truth wanted merch you can

(21:54):
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That was a weird sentence the way it was written.
You can get t shirts, hoodies, mugs, hats, mugs, you
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It's a great show. Another way to support us is

(22:16):
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(22:37):
And that is about it, except that I want to
thank one person every week we take time out to
think one special person at random, one of our Patreon members,
and this week we are going to think name up.
I already got it on my document though, Hugh. Thank you, Hugh.
I don't know if that's Hugh of the board above not,

(22:57):
but thank you very much, Hugh, and thank you do
everybody else who is donated through Patreon. We really appreciate it.
And if you'd like you too, you can go to
go ahead said thank you. Oh, you can go to
tiny dot c c slash, Patreon t W and help
with that. So and with that, let let us go
to the calls you think, Yeah, I think so too.

Speaker 2 (23:19):
Awesome.

Speaker 1 (23:20):
Okay, we got Adrian from California. He's a believer in Jesus.
He claims you're are prophecies that have been fulfilled. Hi, Adrian,
how you doing?

Speaker 3 (23:28):
Hey, yeah, with good y'all, Good evening, afternoon, wherever y'all.

Speaker 2 (23:32):
At, good evening?

Speaker 3 (23:34):
Okay, we got Adrian. If I may say, I don't
want to interrupt y'all, you know, excuse me respectfully. I
do want to say shout out to UH to some
of the atheists that I do see, you know what
I mean. In the mornings, when I have my day off.
You know that that is rainbow a that uh frant a,
that is the who else is with three others? You know,
I want to give them out because I see y'all

(23:55):
thee also that that's really it? You know, got me
prompted or going through talk to y'all.

Speaker 1 (24:01):
You're you're breaking up a little bit, but you think
we're okay. Derry now you say there are prophecies that
have been fulfilled? What prophecies? What prophecies do you think
have been fulfilled?

Speaker 3 (24:10):
Okay, let's go start. All we got we can go
with piers to their hands in the feet. I'm going
off of concorders that I got the new strongs concorded,
all right, so okay, this is my resources that are musing.

Speaker 1 (24:30):
So okay, so what what what we're in the Bible?
Where in the Bible can we find this prophecy?

Speaker 3 (24:36):
Zachariah twelve ten that's the old that's the Old Testament reference.
And John twenty twenty seven that is the New Testament
reference for that one. I don't know if it's like
my WiFi. Hold on, let me see if I take
off the right You.

Speaker 2 (24:53):
Sound okay right now?

Speaker 1 (24:55):
Yeah, your son.

Speaker 3 (24:56):
I'm looking at.

Speaker 1 (24:57):
I'm looking at Zachariah twenty ten. And it doesn't say anything.
It doesn't really say anything like that. It says, and
I will pour out on the house of David and
the inhabitants of Jerusalem.

Speaker 2 (25:08):
With twelve ten.

Speaker 3 (25:09):
I'll say, twelve.

Speaker 1 (25:12):
Wild, Oh, that's what I have here. Twelve ten. That's
the one I have, believe it or not, and I
will I just said the wrong thing, And I will
pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants
of Jerusalem of spirit of grace and supplication. They will
look on it. They will look on me, the one
they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as
one mourns for an only child, and grief bitterly for

(25:32):
him as one who grieves for a firstborn son.

Speaker 3 (25:35):
Yeah, and now the reference say anything.

Speaker 1 (25:37):
About that accord to the that doesn't. But that doesn't
say anything about piercing hands and feet. You see, you understand.
You see what I'm saying. It doesn't have any details
like that.

Speaker 3 (25:48):
No, I'm looking over now, I'll see what you're just saying.
This is what it. I'm already starting off.

Speaker 1 (25:54):
What I'm just looking at the way it's written here,
and you can interpret it as somebody stabbed, stabbing with
a dagger.

Speaker 2 (26:06):
Yeah, because the context of Zachariah twelve is describing it.
And I did just look this up. So's something that
I know, and I'm not trying to pass it off
that way. But describes an end time siege of Jerusalem
which results in Jerusalem's liberation by Jesus at the Battle
of So it's talking about a battle, so like it's
talking about him being pierced in battle. So I'm with Kelly,

(26:26):
I don't agree that that that that talks about like
piercing hands and feet.

Speaker 1 (26:29):
And now the other one was John.

Speaker 3 (26:31):
What well, we got two Jong references. I got John
twenty twenty seven to zero twenty seven.

Speaker 1 (26:39):
Okay, yeah, let's do that one first and then we'll
move on to the next one. Then he said to Thomas,
put your finger here. See my hands, reach out to
your hand and put it into my side.

Speaker 3 (26:49):
I am kind of nervous a little bit, so I
do go down. I'm sorry response to the to the
chaft my fault. I go ahead, bro, I'm sorry, Kelly.

Speaker 1 (26:57):
That the quote is that he said to Thomas, put
your finger here see my hands. Reach out your hand
and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.
This wouldn't be a first off, I don't know that
this actually happened. But this wouldn't This wouldn't be a prophecy.
This would have been post happening. Right, This is after
the crucifixion, So this wouldn't be have been a prophecy

(27:17):
of the crucifixion. It's the description of something that happened
afterwards Jesus reappeared. This is when when Thomas doubted that
he was that he was the living Jesus. Right, you
know that part of the Bible. Right, that's why he said,
stop doubting and believe. If you can hear feel my wound?
Does that make sense? So I'm not seeing it. I
don't see that that either one of those are prophecies.

(27:39):
All right, let me what do you think about that?
After examining both of them.

Speaker 6 (27:43):
After the first one, I do have to legit that
probably wasn't the good That probably wasn't a legit good
example as far as trying to show that the Lord
has been pierced through his hands and feet through using
the zacharya at twelve ten, I do concede into that.

(28:04):
But he did get pierced on the side and water
and blood did come out. That's on John nineteen thirty four.

Speaker 3 (28:11):
Yeah, but again the same zach Riyot twelve ten for
the Old Testament. Though.

Speaker 1 (28:17):
Okay, I'm gonna look at nineteen thirty four here real quick.

Speaker 2 (28:20):
Fifty cent was pierced nine times, so could that have
been about fifty cent?

Speaker 1 (28:24):
Okay? Again, this isn't a prophecy, this this is this
is a narrative. Like one of the soldiers pierced jesus
side with the spear, bringing a sudden flow of blood
and water. That's not saying, you know, when Jesus, when
they hang Jesus on the cross, some soldier is gonna
come along and pierce his side with the spear. No,
that's it. It's not saying it's going to happen. It's

(28:46):
saying that it happened. See what I mean? Do you
just understand that between the prophecy and the narrative, right?

Speaker 2 (28:52):
What I think? Correct me if I'm wrong, Adrian, and
if I just just to get everybody on the same
page real quick. I think the idea here is that
the Old Testament was the Prophecy and then the New Testament.
I believe Adrian was going to present as this is
that prophecy being fulfilled?

Speaker 3 (29:06):
Am I correct, Adrian, Yes, sir, exactly, Okay, I was
just going to go from prophecy list and go from
lists to list. That That was my I guess that
was my opening coming into, you know, trying to explain
y'all why Jesus is who he is. And I think
that was my.

Speaker 1 (29:26):
Basically, are you matching these three, these three passages from
the Bible together, and because they all have the word
pierce in them, because that seems to be the only
thing that makes it, you know, like makes these three
things together in the group. I don't they don't seem
to be referring Like the first two are obviously about
the same situation and you know, the same happening, different

(29:48):
times in that happening, but obviously that you know, the
time that Jesus was hanging on the cross. But the
first one doesn't seem to have anything to do with
the second or third one at all except that it
also has the word pierce in it. So I'm wondering
why you're making this connection.

Speaker 3 (30:01):
And and I and I hear you, Kelly, And that's
and and I'm reading from it again. I'm reading from
a song's concordance chart, and I believe that is exactly
where they're coming from when it comes to trying to
connect the Old Testament and the New Testament. I'm just
collecting resources to expand my own understanding of the Bible.

Speaker 4 (30:24):
I'm not.

Speaker 3 (30:25):
I'm not, you know, I'm not. I'm kind of novice
when it comes to all these resources and stuff. I
just started again a half ago. Fill me.

Speaker 1 (30:33):
But with that said, so believe so you're using resources
you haven't really vetted yet. Is that what you're saying
in a sense like it is a.

Speaker 3 (30:43):
Good resource, especially when I want to put try to
get these words together and what they mean, especially in
the King James version.

Speaker 1 (30:51):
That I got right, But I'm wondering about the veracity.
Is it true? That's what we mean? I mean, so
it might be a good resource for other things, But
that doesn't mean that everything that they say is true
without checking everything out right, I hear.

Speaker 3 (31:05):
That's why I have different translations, different study bibles and
so forth. So I could and I guess in my
own way, I won't say disprove the word of God,
because I believe in the Word of God. But to
try to just to compare it and try to say,
why is it worded this way as opposed to this way,

(31:27):
and say the Dead Sea Scrolls for.

Speaker 1 (31:29):
That, Well, I could I could give you a partial
answer to that question. It's sorted that way because when
that particular version of the Bible was written, that was
the vernacular at the time, that was the kind the
way the language was commonly spoken. So it was translated
to sound as if it was somebody from today's time
speaking it, even if it was, say, the King James

(31:51):
Bible was written for somebody speaking during King King james teime.
And that's why the wording is changed and different, because
every time there's a new translation, they write it for
that time period, for the language of that time period.
Does that make any sense.

Speaker 3 (32:03):
To you, No, it makes perfect sense to me. Yeah,
I'm not saying. That's why I bought the Straw's concordance
that goes with the King James version. What's apocryph for that?
I got? So when I see words like freaking like
fro word for example, you know, or something to that degree,

(32:25):
I could be like, dang, let me see what it
says and the Hebrew how it was broken down. Let
me see how it says when it's broken down to
the Greek and so forth. That's that's what I got
I do.

Speaker 1 (32:37):
Who's doing the breaking down?

Speaker 3 (32:38):
Though? More about what I'm moving?

Speaker 1 (32:40):
Are you using? Are you using like like you were saying,
mention you had a study Bible? Is that what you're
using to break it down?

Speaker 3 (32:47):
This one, this particular breaking down the breaking down excuse me,
breaking down the prophecy is fulfilled. I'm using the strongs concordance.

Speaker 1 (32:56):
But I do have a say, looka no, that's fine,
that's fine. That's all I need to know. Just give
me a second here, because I'm trying to make a point. Now,
do you think that that as a reference? Do you
think that that might possibly have a bias?

Speaker 4 (33:11):
Probably it could.

Speaker 3 (33:13):
I believe, I seriously do believe. Like let's just say
take the point throwing an example like say a doctor
Gerald maya study Bible in the New King James right,
or Tony Evan study Bible.

Speaker 2 (33:26):
Right.

Speaker 3 (33:26):
Okay, Personally I wouldn't go and purchase that type of
study Bible because it is under one person and not
one person knows all of the Bible. That's just impossible, right,
But I do believe with a correlation of a different
a different believers.

Speaker 2 (33:43):
Is it?

Speaker 1 (33:44):
Wait? Wait, I understand what you're saying, but it's like
you didn't getting hear what. I don't think you're catching
what I'm trying to say here. So, whether it was
one person who did it or a committee of people,
do you think they had a bias? It doesn't matter
how many people were involved in it. What we're talking
about is the bias of the people. Do you think
that the people who put me the reference that you're

(34:05):
using together had a reason to say what they were
saying that might not have to do with let's say,
empirical facts, you know, like they're conjecturing this so it
has to be this way because this is what I
already believe. Do you think maybe there's a little bit
of that going on?

Speaker 3 (34:23):
I wouldn't doubt it.

Speaker 1 (34:24):
Okay, so so, so, okay, now we're getting somewhere. So
if that's going on, and you agree with that, how
do you know that this reference point that you're using
can be used? How do you know that it's that
it's a good reference that you can actually use it
to get to the truth.

Speaker 3 (34:40):
Okay, if your question is how, how can I'm trying
to I'm trying to comprehend your questions.

Speaker 1 (34:46):
So there's though, Okay, I'll break it down into one
simple question. How can you be sure that something is
but that is biased can get you to the truth?

Speaker 3 (34:55):
You can't. I would think you have to use your
own discernment.

Speaker 1 (34:58):
Okay, but isn't that what you're doing using that you're
using that reference point to decide that what you believe
about this particular prophecy.

Speaker 3 (35:06):
Off based off charge out are referencing scripture with scripture?

Speaker 1 (35:11):
Yeah, yeah, because those charts are biased to the scripture.

Speaker 2 (35:15):
I would say, look at the example that you gave
us Adrian, because so it says in Zechariah, you know,
there's a prophecy that he will be pierced, and then
in John there's the prophecy is fulfilled that he is
pierced or in the crucifixion. But like we were saying
a little bit ago, it's really not specific enough in
like at face value to convince either of us that

(35:37):
it's a that it's talking about a crucify like a
person being crucified and being pierced because you know, through
their hands and feet. And then you look at the
context of what Zechariah is describing, and it's talking about
a battle, and the only method they had for engaging
in battle in that time involved piercing, so it it's
describing I love some And so let me tie that

(36:01):
back to what Kelly was saying then, because what that
tells me is they're taking they're doing what he said.
They're saying, let's find a way to make this say
what we wanted to say. So they found two things
that both said, ah, Pierce, that's a word that they
have in common. Let's make it seem like and so
they put them on this resource as if ye, this
prophecy is fulfilled by this verse here in this book,

(36:23):
in this chapter, and because and they're telling you it is.
But now when you get a little bit more context
from somewhere outside of that source, you find, oh wait, no,
that's not what that means. So now you have an
example of this source demonstrating a bias and being unreliable.
So how do you get from that then too, I
can trust this source.

Speaker 3 (36:42):
That's that's a very very good question, okay, And I
have to I have to sit back, and I have
to sit back and really think, Well.

Speaker 1 (36:51):
That's that's fine. I mean, you take your time. Even
if you want to take all a week and give
us a call next week and talk about it some more,
that's fine. I don't. I don't want to rush you
into have to make a decision on that because it's
something you really do need to think about.

Speaker 3 (37:03):
Oh no, well this well personally, there's a really two
things about when it comes. Because I think the context
is talking about Jesus Christ. I'm hearing what elis saying.
I believe that, Okay, the context could mean anything or
any person outside of Jesus Christ. It doesn't say Zachariat

(37:24):
ten twelve, he's going to get peers, that Jesus, that
Jesus is going to get peers. It could be anybody
that they're You need to see what the real context is.
I'm hearing where he's coming from, and I'm not arguing
with that point.

Speaker 6 (37:38):
Is a if I may say, like a lot of
these prophecies, including the ones that are in palms, right.

Speaker 1 (37:44):
They I just don't.

Speaker 2 (37:45):
I don't.

Speaker 1 (37:46):
Here's the thing, Adrian, I have had it over the years.
I have had people bring me a litany of prophecies
from the Bible, and not a single one has actually
turned out to be a prophecy. They all believe that
they are prophecies, but when we actually examine them, none
of them turned out to be prophecies. Just like the
Zachariah one. There is nothing in that Zachariah quote, in

(38:06):
that quote from Zachariah that leads us to saying that
that was a prophecy about Jesus. There's absolutely nothing there
that could that you can say points to Jesus. That's
the problem I have with these supposed prophecies from the Bibles.
The Bible, they're often not they're not prophecies at all.

Speaker 3 (38:24):
Okay, are we gonna Are we gonna feel sick with
that one?

Speaker 1 (38:27):
Or can I go with if you want to do
another one? We can do one more sure, but I
don't know that we're gonna get anywhere with that one either,
So but you can try.

Speaker 3 (38:39):
I probably you know, I probably shouldn't. I shouldn't even
go there. Let me can I ask y'all a question?

Speaker 1 (38:47):
What is sure?

Speaker 3 (38:47):
What are two things? Let me ask eli first? What
is stopping? What is what got you to where you are?
When it comes to your your unbelief in the Lord.

Speaker 6 (39:00):
What made you say hmm, I'm just going to disregard
anything that's up in the Word, any type of wisdom,
any type of understanding, any type.

Speaker 3 (39:11):
Of knowledge that is from this Word. You're going to
straight up say, no, this God doesn't exist. I want
to hear where where did you come with that realization?
Or how did you come with that realization? If I
may ask, and I want to ask you the same thing,
mister Kelly, if that's posture, I want to get from
where these hosts are coming from before I even age

(39:31):
you further. If that's okay, Okay.

Speaker 2 (39:33):
Yeah, you certainly may ask. I didn't come to that realization.
I don't hold that of you. I hold of you
that I'm not convinced that God exists because I don't
consider the Bible to be reliable or consistent or all
that good necessarily, And that's really the only source I
have that you know, this is the original source that

(39:55):
claims that this God exists. So if I don't have
a reason to believe that, I don't really see a
reason to believe in the God, and I might be wrong.
And I don't claim that God does not exist. I'm
just not convinced that there is a God, and if
I were shown a good argument one day, I would
consider changing my mind.

Speaker 3 (40:15):
Good to go, mister Kelly.

Speaker 1 (40:17):
Well, for me, I started questioning it when I was
very young because I didn't understand how Jesus or God
could let children be tortured and killed for no innocent children.
So that got me to wondering about it. After that,
when I started looking for actual proof, just like Eli mentioned,
I didn't find any There was nothing. I could find,
nothing that convinced me that a God exists. Now, as

(40:40):
I got older, I kind of refined my beliefs. I
am now an etheist. I don't think that any conversation
about the existence of God can be viable until we
can figure out what God is, because it seems like
every person who has who believes in God has a
different idea of exactly what God is. Even two people
say next to each other in the same pew in

(41:01):
the same church. So if there's so many different definitions
of God, I don't know how we can talk about
the existence of God. Does that make any sense? No?

Speaker 3 (41:10):
Absolutely, I know Christians that are Trinitarians. I know Christians
that are Unitarians, you know what I mean. I know
Christians that believe that everything is pre pre predestined. There's
other Christians that believe like, you know, just being led
by the spirit, you know, something that just.

Speaker 6 (41:29):
There's a whole different variety of denominations and such, which
I think as a believer in Jesus Christ, I think
that it's it can be confusing, and it can and
it can be seen I think from other people that
don't believe like I would think that they will say, hey,
these Christians are confused about who they believe in, Like

(41:49):
why should we go and believe.

Speaker 3 (41:51):
In their God.

Speaker 1 (41:52):
I don't just think that about Christians. I think that
about all God believers.

Speaker 6 (41:57):
Okay, So that was kind of my next question, Like
y'all got the same energy when it comes to like
people that believe in Islam, people that believe in hindu
This is not just attacking.

Speaker 3 (42:07):
The God of Abraham. I don't.

Speaker 1 (42:08):
I don't attack Christians. I just I don't do it.

Speaker 2 (42:12):
The God of Islam is the God of Abraham.

Speaker 1 (42:14):
It's the same god. The God of the Jews, the Christians,
and the Muslims is all the same God.

Speaker 3 (42:20):
Oh oh, you believe that the Muslim God that.

Speaker 1 (42:24):
I don't believe it.

Speaker 3 (42:25):
I know it.

Speaker 1 (42:26):
It's just a different interpretation of that same God. It
is the Arabic God.

Speaker 2 (42:31):
Yeah, it just means God.

Speaker 1 (42:32):
It's just that said that they view the God's teachings
in a different way. That's all.

Speaker 3 (42:36):
I've never heard of that before.

Speaker 1 (42:38):
You should go check it out, because that's true even
in the Qur'an.

Speaker 2 (42:43):
As I understand it, and I haven't studied Islam much
at all, but as I understand it, it is. I
believe that that that modern day Muslims are the descendants
of the son of Abraham's other the maid servant of
Abraham's wife Hid. Yeah, yes, thank you.

Speaker 3 (43:01):
That's what I heard too, Yes, like that the Is,
the Israelis and the pala Signs are basically the same
bloodline and stuff like that from from the Abrahams of
the sentence.

Speaker 4 (43:11):
Yeah, but I did.

Speaker 3 (43:12):
I never heard that that's the That's something else. I
just know that Muslims don't believe that Jesus is the.

Speaker 1 (43:18):
Messiah, and I believe that is the neither do the Jews,
and they're the ones who started the religion.

Speaker 2 (43:24):
Jewish people don't believe that either.

Speaker 3 (43:26):
Okay, good to go, thank you. I do want to
get into I do want to get like, isn't anything?
Is that anything like y'all want to talk about to
get me like, I don't know what to ask, like
I don't know how to push forward. Just know that,
don't I don't know how to go forward and trying
to show besides like going through Bible versus and I

(43:47):
don't want to quote unquote get too preachy up in here.

Speaker 1 (43:51):
But I don't know that's cool. I understand that, and
I appreciate that. I really do. I totally appreciate that.
But here here's the thing. And I a lot of
a lot of us will say this, and I don't
know that it registers a lot of times with dias,
with with Christians or any other believer in the God
that your holy book, it really doesn't mean anything to us,

(44:12):
right I mean? And and honestly, your like the Bible,
it's not proof of anything. It's the claim, you know.
And And the way I illustrate this is the police
get in the letter it says that you rob the
local gas station, right, that letter is the claim. Now
they have to go out and look for evidence to
show that that letter is correct. The Bible is just

(44:33):
the letter. It's saying that this is this is what happened, right,
But it's not giving any evidence or any proof that
those things happen. It's just telling you what they think happened.
So so when you use the Bible to prove anything,
it really doesn't prove anything because it's not meant to
be proof. It's a narrative of things that it happened.
It's not it's the claim. Does that make sense to

(44:53):
you I'm hearing I'm hearing.

Speaker 3 (44:54):
It from your perspective, but from a belief like someone
that believes whole hardly in what the Word says, like
I I believe that there is because there is chrisscher
in the Old and a New Testament that says like at.

Speaker 1 (45:10):
The end of the day, Okay, what I really want
to know, Like you just said something that you believe
this right wholeheartedly. I want to know why you believe it?

Speaker 3 (45:19):
What is that?

Speaker 1 (45:19):
What is it that convinced you that this was true?
Was it that prophecy you brought up from Zachariah? Was
that what convinced you it was true?

Speaker 3 (45:28):
I mean the prophecy's helped the prophecy's help, So what
is it?

Speaker 1 (45:32):
No, but what is it that actually convinced or did
you learn the prophecies after you were already convinced? Because
I think that's probably what happened. They kind of bolstered
what you already believed. So what is it that actually
made you believe that this was true?

Speaker 2 (45:45):
What?

Speaker 3 (45:46):
You know? What what got me started to really like
get into the deep study was Proverbs thirty five.

Speaker 1 (45:52):
I told you, well, who showed who? Where did you
learn Proverbs thirty five? Did it just pop up one day?
Or see?

Speaker 3 (45:58):
See?

Speaker 1 (45:59):
See where I'm going with this. I'm trying to find
out exactly what it is that it happened to you
that made you believe this. So I'm not sure that
just saying well there was this proverb is what it
is when I'm talking about I'm wondering, how did you
get to that proverb?

Speaker 3 (46:14):
What's the call? Well, first of all, Proverbs thirty five
got me get into my studying the word and going
deeper into the words. That's that's the verse that got
me started. So I can go in, Like I said, Now, so.

Speaker 1 (46:28):
You didn't believe, you didn't believe in Jesus. Yeah, when
you had never heard of proverbs, and all of a
sudden you just saw this proverb one day and it
convinced you. Is that what you're saying?

Speaker 3 (46:37):
That was one?

Speaker 1 (46:38):
That was one?

Speaker 3 (46:39):
But before that I was I would say my own
life experiences. I say, like answered prayer and the path.

Speaker 1 (46:46):
That I came from to well, who taught you how
to pray? So you're still we're still not getting aware
you where you started this belief system at you just
keep going farther in back, well I started praying? Let
me get you know, well, how did you start pray?
We're not getting to why you were convinced it was true?
Yet you're still you're still going us back through a
history of your belief not why you have the belief agent.

Speaker 2 (47:09):
Do you have the same faith beliefs or similar faith
beliefs to the people who raised you.

Speaker 3 (47:14):
I apologize y'all in the chat and everybody you.

Speaker 1 (47:17):
Know me, but if you know, screw the chat you're
talking to us, man.

Speaker 4 (47:21):
It's not there.

Speaker 2 (47:22):
It's like they're not the ones that are having that
conversation with you.

Speaker 3 (47:24):
Man.

Speaker 1 (47:24):
Not that I want anybody in the chat to you know,
be screwed, but because I love it most of the
people in the right love I talk to them all
the time. But but for the purpose of this call,
let's talk to us, not the chat.

Speaker 3 (47:35):
But I'm apologizing for delay to answer your question. I
was raised in a church, church household, like my mother,
my stepdad on. It brought me up.

Speaker 1 (47:46):
So that's why you believe you were taught up from
a child? See okay, So so there there we go.
That's what we were looking for, is what what was
it you were convinced because you were raised from a
child to believe it? Correct?

Speaker 3 (47:58):
Yeah I was.

Speaker 1 (47:59):
I was, Yeah, I was raised So since since you
were a child, you're really and talk till now, you
haven't really questioned why you believe it. You've just believed
that unquestioningly, it seems like, and and sought out things
that would strengthen your belief that you already had no
proof of. Does that make any sense at all?

Speaker 3 (48:19):
It makes sense to where you're coming from. But that's
not how that's how how not my life not navigate.
My life didn't navigate like that, Like, yeah, I was
raised up when I was younger in a church household
and so forth, baptized ninety five and all that. But
I was still living in sin, and you know what
I mean, baptized in ninety five and forty two, sure

(48:40):
you feel me.

Speaker 6 (48:41):
Ninety five I really didn't know baptism, being baptized in
Jesus Christ name and everything I really did.

Speaker 1 (48:48):
How did you know what sin was, what it was to.

Speaker 3 (48:50):
Be a Christian until like recently, when you, like I said,
life experiences happened, prayer has been answered and.

Speaker 1 (48:57):
So wait, wait, it's a What you just described to
me doesn't sound like what you think it is. What
it more sounds like it to me is I already believed,
but but my belief I wasn't really strong in it,
and then all of a sudden I had some life
experiences and now I have a strong belief. So it
doesn't sound you see what I'm saying. It doesn't the
way you're describing it doesn't seem like what you're claiming

(49:19):
it is. And I understand. I understand that you think
that this is you know that you have this really
strong evidence of your beliefs. But I don't think you've
ever really questioned the evidence of your beliefs, like looked
at it from an open mind, right and not. Let's
say you know with somebody. Somebody in my crew chat
asked if if you were born if you were born

(49:40):
saying in India, do you think you would still be
a Christian?

Speaker 3 (49:43):
If? If? What?

Speaker 1 (49:44):
If you were born in India? Do you think you
would still be a Christian if you were born in Arabia?
Do you think you would still be a Christian?

Speaker 2 (49:51):
Or better yet does a essa.

Speaker 3 (49:56):
I'm paraphrasing here because I'm parapraising, but it does say
that somewhere in the New Testament.

Speaker 1 (50:03):
That I'm not asking what it says in a New Testament.
I'm asking you for for what you if you were
born in Arabia, do you think you would be a
Christian today? That you do you think you would be
raised as a Christian if you were born in Arabia?
Or do you think you would be raised as a
Muslim and today be totally a convinced Muslim and a
devout Muslim? If you were born in India, do you

(50:25):
think you had been raised as a Hindu and today
be a completely devout Hindu?

Speaker 3 (50:31):
To answer your question, to answer your question personally, we're
talking personally here.

Speaker 6 (50:37):
I don't care if I was born in Brazil, I
don't care if I was born in Spain, I don't care.

Speaker 1 (50:44):
Those are both Christian countries. Not getting it, Adrian, this
is going like right over your head. Those are both
Christian countries. I didn't even know rand But my.

Speaker 3 (50:55):
Point, my point is I was trying to say. My
point is like I person will go and a person
will go and try to seek the truth, you know
what I mean. And I was saying I will still
be led to Christianity regardless of where.

Speaker 1 (51:09):
I don't think you would. I think if you were
born in Arabia, you'd be a devout Muslim because you
wouldn't even know what Christianity was, probably if I wasn't.

Speaker 3 (51:19):
And I'm sure it's not exposed as much in Arabia
as in say, the United States.

Speaker 1 (51:25):
Oh it's not. It's not even close. It's not even
close as exposed as much. I'm not even closed, it's not.
It's probably like three percent of exposure as what we
have in the in the US. And that's being generous.
I don't think you understand this question that I'm asking you.
Either that or you're purposely trying to find a way

(51:47):
out of it, because because if you answer the question correctly,
it would kind of be a sin against your God,
wouldn't it? What was that I said? If you were
to answer the question, if you was just to answer
the question and answer it correctly, it would kind of
be a sin against your God. So you're having a
hard time answering it.

Speaker 3 (52:08):
It's not really like I kind of think that I
answered it. Again, I'm coming from.

Speaker 1 (52:16):
My pert You haven't, you have not, you have not.
I'm going to ask you again, if you were born
in Arabia, in Arabia where there's no Christianity, you're not
exposed to it, do you think you would be a
devout Muslim today instead of a Christians An easy question.

Speaker 3 (52:31):
Sure, I don't know. I don't know.

Speaker 2 (52:33):
Okay, I think that's I think that's the stronger likelihood.
I think it's more likely that's the case. And you
kind of said it yourself, right you you were raised
by people who believe the same thing or something really
similar to what you believe.

Speaker 1 (52:45):
I think your exact words were, I was raised in
a church household.

Speaker 2 (52:48):
The church household, So you you said that was the.

Speaker 6 (52:52):
Seeds in a household that will go to church on Sundays, Yes,
a Christian church on Sundays.

Speaker 2 (52:59):
Yes, so you you were being taught this system of beliefs,
this theology, this i'll call it a mythology, don't take
it personally from a young age. And the people in
Iran and Afghanistan, people in India have been taught their
own versions of those categories, for you know, their their
whole lives as well. If somebody came to you with

(53:22):
a prophecy from the Quran and it says, you know,
the beginning of the Quran says this happened, and then
the later part of the Quran says that this happened,
or says this will happen, and then this did happen.
Would would that convince you that islam is is.

Speaker 3 (53:35):
The truth only if it's only only and I hear
your questions, and and I and I understand where you're
coming from.

Speaker 6 (53:43):
Only if it is corroborated with with I guess, privacy
fulfilled or things that are or evidence that will correlate
with what is said.

Speaker 3 (53:54):
Outside of the word or outside of the Qur'an.

Speaker 2 (53:57):
Right, Okay, So you would want to see another sort
outside of the Quran that says the same thing.

Speaker 6 (54:02):
That would help its cause for people that believe it
is on but I'm talking, do you think you can
give us another source for Christianity besides the Bible?

Speaker 1 (54:13):
Question?

Speaker 3 (54:13):
What?

Speaker 1 (54:14):
Sorry?

Speaker 3 (54:15):
Sorry, Eli, there Dan scrolls right.

Speaker 1 (54:18):
That is just copies of the Bible, is it.

Speaker 2 (54:22):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (54:22):
There's a couple other things, like a treasure map and
some uh like some goal documents. Yeah, there's some legal
documents and stuff. But yeah, the only thing, yeah, for
the most part, is just different copies of the Bible,
older copies than we already had, which is why they
were important.

Speaker 3 (54:37):
Yeah, but you know, archaeology, I believe archaeology. Yeah, I
can't even talk dot com map my fault.

Speaker 4 (54:44):
I'm sorry.

Speaker 3 (54:44):
Archaeology, archaeological findings. You know that they have an Old Testament.
If I need to bust out one.

Speaker 1 (54:51):
I don't know which ones.

Speaker 2 (54:53):
So do you mean things where like they found what
they believed to be the ancient city of Jericho?

Speaker 3 (55:00):
I'm sorry?

Speaker 2 (55:02):
So do you do you mean like examples where they say, oh, this, this,
you know, archaeological find could be what the Bible describes
as the ancient city of Jericho. Are you referring to
things like that exactly?

Speaker 3 (55:13):
Yeah? You know marks, so people in the Old Testament
New Testament point it's pilot stuff.

Speaker 2 (55:21):
Like well, places that existed when those things were written,
is what they're referencing. The fact that New York exists,
And this is an example that we use on across
these shows all the time. The fact that New York
exists is not evidence that Spider Man is real. Spider
Man comics are not true just because New York is real.
So we might find the ancient city of Jericho, but

(55:42):
that doesn't tell us anything about the rest of the
contents of the Bible. You would still need two to
do that extra work to say, you know, Jericho is
here and it was knocked down by playing trumpets.

Speaker 1 (55:52):
It kind of doesn't like the fact that we found
the remains of Jericho doesn't help us prove any of
the supernatural claims of the Bible. Doesn't even help us
prove that God is real. It just helps us prove
that there was a city of Jericho.

Speaker 3 (56:04):
Right that, we're going, well.

Speaker 2 (56:05):
I'm sorry, say that again, Adrian.

Speaker 3 (56:06):
So you're saying so you're saying, I was saying, Man,
this delay freaking sucks. I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 (56:12):
Yeah, I know we're used to it.

Speaker 4 (56:14):
I know you're not.

Speaker 2 (56:14):
It's all right.

Speaker 3 (56:15):
The the like say like the finding to know what
arc and stuff like that, the separation of the Red
Sea from Moses. You're talking about evidence like like the supernatural,
like saying Jonah going inside a well for three days,
stuff like.

Speaker 1 (56:30):
That sure or that the Arc ever existed, or that
the Red Sea was part of it or that or
that God is real. Okay, do me see our problem here?

Speaker 3 (56:40):
I see y'all problem. Absolutely, it's uh.

Speaker 1 (56:45):
Well, it's not my problem. It's because you're because you're
trying to convince me that what you believe is real,
and you're not being able to do that. So it's
not my problem.

Speaker 2 (56:53):
Said. My problem with being on your side is is
those things.

Speaker 3 (56:56):
Okay, I won't say problem, let me say let me
let me not say problem because that sounds condis respecful.

Speaker 1 (57:02):
It's okay, No, it's cool. It's cool.

Speaker 3 (57:03):
Non believers have a problem, or I'm not gonna say
believers have a problem either. It's just, you know, we
just having a miss a miss uh, we're just having
disagreements on spin.

Speaker 2 (57:14):
I didn't take it that way.

Speaker 1 (57:15):
You are right, Yeah, yeah, I thought we've been having
a really cool civil conversation. So I wish we could
have more conversations like this between people like you and
I so, and Eli and I or Eli and you so.
But I just don't I just don't know how how
we're going to get to the belief Like I don't
know how you could convince me that the supernatural claims

(57:35):
of the Bible are real. And even you you just
said that you wanted something besides the Quran to prove
that Islam was real, And yet we don't have anything
like that to prove about anything in addition to the Bible.
And yet you're willing to accept Christianity was real without
the same standards that you're setting for Islam. So so

(57:55):
you see where I'm a little confused, Like you want
these good standards for this thing, but not this other
thing because you already believe in that thing or something.
I'm not sure what's going on there. It's you know
what that's that's called special pleading. Is like I'm going
to set these standards for this off for everything, but
this one thing I want to believe in. I'm just
gonna blow those standards away. Those don't count for this.

(58:17):
What do you think of that idea?

Speaker 3 (58:18):
I hear, I hear where you're coming from.

Speaker 6 (58:21):
When it comes to double standards, and I'm a big
advocate of anti double standers, like freaking if if you
can do it, I definitely could do it, so.

Speaker 1 (58:31):
Forth right right, Well, that's not really what a double
standard is.

Speaker 3 (58:34):
But okay, damn, I don't know where I was. Okay,
what I see. My thing is I straight up believe
based on prayer being answered and also with my life experience.

Speaker 1 (58:50):
Okay, have all your parents been answered? Done?

Speaker 3 (58:53):
I won't say all of them, but it's not up
to me though, it's not up to my time, you
know the Who am I a question?

Speaker 4 (59:02):
Guy?

Speaker 3 (59:03):
Can I have this praise done now? Or can I
have it? As said day?

Speaker 1 (59:07):
I'm just I'm just what what what percentage of your
prayers do you think have come true? Fifty percent?

Speaker 3 (59:13):
I wire just the grain with the brain. Let me
just say that, all.

Speaker 1 (59:16):
Right, But you're just not answering my questions. I'm trying
to get somewhere. What what percentage of your prayers do
you think have been answered? About? Fifty percent, thirty percent,
seventy five percent? Where where? Where on that? In that range?
Are we at?

Speaker 6 (59:31):
I say about I say about realistically, I say about
eighty eighty five percent.

Speaker 1 (59:37):
Really eighty every test, Like, you pray five times, and
four of the times you get what you want. Talking
to you, what I said, you pray five times, right,
and four of those five times you get what you want.

Speaker 3 (59:52):
No, no, no, no, Like I've gotten it that I've
that I've prayed for so far, that I really fervently
prayed for. But the other things that I'm wait for
no is down the line.

Speaker 1 (01:00:04):
Wait wait so now wait so no wait wait, you're
changing the gold posts here. All of a sudden, it
was it was eighty five percent, but oh no, only
on the important ones.

Speaker 2 (01:00:13):
Now, let me tell me if it's okay, Kelly, I'm sorry.

Speaker 4 (01:00:19):
Are these no?

Speaker 3 (01:00:20):
No, let me squash all that right now. I'm squashal
that right now.

Speaker 2 (01:00:22):
Yeah, go ahead and respond.

Speaker 3 (01:00:23):
Currently currently, right as as I'm sitting here talking to you,
the majority of my prayers have honestly been answered, not
all of them, but most of them. Yeah, okay.

Speaker 2 (01:00:36):
When these things that out of the things that you've
prayed for that have gone the way that you wanted,
were they also things that you were taking steps in
your life to make them happen, or that other people
were taking steps to help them to come to fruition
for you or was it purely just like this either

(01:00:56):
will happen or it won't and there's nothing that anybody
can do about it. How many any of those cases
do you think would like, how would they measure out?

Speaker 3 (01:01:02):
I hear where you're coming from, and I absolutely respect
the question. You're talking to a brother that don't believe
in coinsdiness is at all? Like our steps are are
led already, you feel me.

Speaker 6 (01:01:14):
So with that being said, I believe that the Lord
has maneuvered things around my life. Doors were open, opportunities
were you know, were set forth, this person was here,
that person was here in my life at that point
in time, and so forth.

Speaker 3 (01:01:29):
I believe that has happened, absolutely, But I'm not one
that believe in coincidence, is not one bit.

Speaker 2 (01:01:35):
No, So you believe that those the right now? So
if I can paraphrase, just to make sure that I'm
understanding you, would you say that those people that were
helping you, or those things that you were able to
do to make that thing happen for you, those were
those things were God answering your prayer. Is that your
view on it?

Speaker 3 (01:01:54):
Did it?

Speaker 1 (01:01:54):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:01:55):
Pretty much?

Speaker 2 (01:01:55):
Okay, So it could be said in that case that
any time a thing goes right has answered your prayers,
and any time it does not go right, would you
say that he has not? I agree, yeah, so that
I mean.

Speaker 3 (01:02:07):
Yeah, that he have not.

Speaker 1 (01:02:08):
Yeah, that I believe that he had not.

Speaker 3 (01:02:11):
The answer your question, Elia, So for.

Speaker 2 (01:02:15):
The way that that if you don't already presuppose that
there is a God that does answer prayers and that
like if so, if you already assume that there are
no coincidences and there is a God and he does
answer prayers and he will, then like, yeah, it can.
It's easy to apply those things to that what's happening there.

(01:02:35):
But if if you don't already assume that all of
those things are true, then what it sounds to me
like you're describing is, you know, this thing makes me happy,
and being happy is equal to God answering my prayer,
and this thing makes me not happy, and being not
happy is equal to God not answering my prayer. And
I think it's just kind of putting different labels on
an old familiar face.

Speaker 3 (01:02:55):
I hate you on that, but we're not I believe
that going to I just don't think he's going to
answer your prayers. On your time. That's just that's just
what I believe. I believe, like if you fervently prayer
and like pray and come and come to God correct,
you know, I mean come with him with some with

(01:03:16):
some fearns of respect, I believe that, and I believe
that deep down he will maneuver your events, maneuver your
ways to where specific Like my wife or she's a
epitome of it, He's going to answer your prayer straight up.

Speaker 1 (01:03:33):
You know, Adrian, I want to consistent continue this conversation.
We are running out of time. I have a bunch
of callers left to Yeah, I would love it if
you called back and did this some more. You can
also talk. I think, you know, you should bring your
prophecies to Justin d Z on a Sunday on Atheist experience.
He is like a scholar of the Bible, an actual

(01:03:54):
trained scholar, has a degree in it, and I think
he would give you a better understanding of some of
these proper to see. So I encourage you to do that.

Speaker 3 (01:04:03):
No, I do want to say, both gentlemen, thank you
for this engagement. You know what I mean? It was
very in my eyes, it was respectable. It was very educational.
I see where even even I do respect that. I
do want to say thank you. This is this was
my very first time calling in in this type of environment.

(01:04:25):
So if yeah, I do have the jittery nervous bones
and all that, and.

Speaker 1 (01:04:30):
Well I hope we I hope we weren't didn't compound
that anymore. But I really do have to let you go, Adrian. Okay,
so thanks to have a good night.

Speaker 3 (01:04:39):
Thank you bro, Thank you Kelly. I appreciate it, Thank.

Speaker 2 (01:04:42):
You, Thanks Adrian.

Speaker 3 (01:04:43):
All Right.

Speaker 1 (01:04:44):
We have got a ton of calls here too, so
which is awesome because we don't normally do we do
often have it, but we have more than normal for
a Friday night. I want to get to Cynthia. She
heard from Illinois. She has had a ghost encounter and
wants to discuss from when she was in college. Okay,
Hi Cynthia, how are you? Hi?

Speaker 3 (01:05:03):
Hey?

Speaker 1 (01:05:06):
I was sweet, Cynthia. I knew, of course it is,
of course it is.

Speaker 3 (01:05:12):
It is me. My goodness, you guys. Listen. I was
listening to the call before and I and I could
have a whole call just like breaking down that call.
But I'm not going to do that. I'm going to
tell you about my but I gotta say it's like, hey,
if i'm if, I am like invited back on to

(01:05:32):
truth wanted Asian police call in. No, I'm not working anything.
I'm sorry. Say say hi, say hi a lot to
say hi to say hi, say hi to Mommy's friends,
Say hi, Mommy's friends. How Hi, Hello everybody? Say hi

(01:05:53):
my four year old. Okay, So okay, you want to
get into my ghost my ghost story.

Speaker 1 (01:05:58):
I want to hear your ghost story.

Speaker 3 (01:06:02):
Okay, yeah, yeah, I'm telling the mommy ghost story. You
want to hear it? Yeah, okay, cool, all right, so yeah, exactly,
I know, right, Okay, So when I was in college,
right we I lived in the oldest girl dormitory in
Illinois at the time, and we had like a ghost

(01:06:24):
we we had like a you know, tall tale running
around about a girl who was a student at my
college who would play the piano in the in this
big room that was kind of like it was like
a living room, but you know, like the panel was

(01:06:44):
like a grand panel, but it was like very old.
And the story was that she was unfortunately awe while
she was playing the pianel by some rando right and
act and because of that she haunted the dormitory. And
we also had in the old part of the dormitory

(01:07:08):
a fourth floor that was completely closed down. That was
told to us that the reason why we don't use
that fourth floor is because that where the goat of Mary,
and they're always named Mary. I don't know why resided, right,
so we just yeah, I know, right. So I heard

(01:07:28):
the story a bunch of times, right, And so I
remember one night I went to sleep and then I
felt like the need to get back up again because
like I felt like proalysis if that makes sense, sleep
sleep proalyssis. And I'm like, gee, I want to get up,
but I can't write. And then when I opened my eyes,
old MG, I saw a pale figure with dark black

(01:07:53):
hair staring at me right, and she a word. She
just stared at me, just stared at me, and I
was like, oh my god, is this Mary? And then
she disappeared and then I was able to get it
back up again. And then I went to some of
my girlfriends and I told them, you know, I said, hey, gouds,
guess what last night I think they Mary came to

(01:08:15):
me and they said they do you do? And I
was like, yeah, and I told them what happened. I said,
I was asleep. I was laying down in my room.

Speaker 2 (01:08:22):
I looked up.

Speaker 3 (01:08:23):
I was trying to get up. I couldn't And the
next thing, you know, I saw like a very pale
figure dressed in like a lacy white nightgown and had
very dark hair and like very piercing eyes, like black eyes,
like looking at me. Wouldn't say a word, and I
guess I was so petrified I could not get up.

Speaker 1 (01:08:44):
So yeah, that is got two things if I could
do a follow up, if you don't mind number one.
And I'm only saying this because i'm your friend, Cynthia.
You said this for you when you were going to college. Yes, yes, okay,
I'm just going to ask you this as your friend.
When you were going to college, did you do a
bunch of drugs? I was just I I had to

(01:09:05):
do it as a joke, But.

Speaker 3 (01:09:08):
No, I did not.

Speaker 2 (01:09:09):
I did not.

Speaker 1 (01:09:11):
Do it as a joke.

Speaker 3 (01:09:12):
So are you.

Speaker 1 (01:09:15):
But I was what you're just you know, we were
saying that you couldn't move. It kind of sounds like
sleep paralysis.

Speaker 3 (01:09:21):
Yeah, yeah, it really doesn't. Yeah I think that that
was paralysis.

Speaker 1 (01:09:25):
Yeah, yeah, I know I've never experienced it, but my
son has and he said he's had like different different
experiences with it, including like being operated on by doctors.
So yeah, I know, right stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:09:37):
So I've also never experienced it, but I've heard a
lot of stories that a lot like that that was
through and through. Yeah, sounded like sleep parroalysis to me.
Also terrifying, Yeah, terrifying.

Speaker 3 (01:09:48):
Yeah, it is. It is terrifying that that actually, like
it seemed like at that particular time in my life,
like when I was younger, I did experience some things,
you know, some I did have some experiences with sleep from.

Speaker 1 (01:10:03):
Some hypnogogic hallucinations.

Speaker 3 (01:10:05):
I remember one time, I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 (01:10:07):
I said some like other hypnogogic hallucinations like that. Yeah,
so that's when you had with the superalysis hallucination. It's hypnegogic.

Speaker 3 (01:10:16):
Yeah, And and and I wouldn't doubt if it was
like suggestive only because like I remember, like every time
that you know, people would like move into the dorm,
that's the first thing that you know people would be
hit with is this story about Mary right and and
and and sometimes and I know that like when I

(01:10:36):
was in college is when that was like my introduction
to evangelical Christianity, and and and the more super natural
portions of how it operates, right, so, you know, like
the Holy Ghos actually intervening with things, and and and

(01:10:58):
the Devil being a bit more you know, active, because
he's supposed to be the prince of the air. And
I would not doubt, to be honest with you gentlemen,
if those thoughts were not implanted in me when I
would go to church or some other community gathering in
the Christian community at the time, that influenced my thinking.

Speaker 2 (01:11:20):
Yeah, I think me, it definitely could have been. Yeah,
without you know, without knowing what your influences was, I
can only speculate influences were I can only speculate, But
I know, I think it's it's pretty natural for people
who do have like religious or spiritual beliefs to have
beliefs and supernatural and then you're going to interpret things
that way based on you know, like we say it

(01:11:42):
all the time, like our experiences shape our beliefs, and
our beliefs shape our perception, and our perception shapes our experiences.
So uh, yeah, I think it's totally natural that that happened.
And now you know, better.

Speaker 3 (01:11:54):
Yeah, I agree, What say you, mister Kelly? Yeah? I
what what? I what?

Speaker 1 (01:12:01):
The best thing I got out of this, what I
enjoyed hearing the most was that today you still look
back on that with skepticism like what could this have been?
What other things could this have possibly been? That weren't supernatural?
That I can't prove? And I think that's and I
think just that that exercise alone is just freaking awesome.
So I think that if that's where you started it at,

(01:12:21):
it was something like that that started you when you
were younger on that path, that's that's incredible that I
would say that was a great experience for you, if
that's where it led you, I would say.

Speaker 3 (01:12:32):
So. I think that, like when I was Christian and
more in the quote unquote spiritual realm, I try to
attach some type of like, you know, perhaps it's this,
Perhaps is that that was considered like either the God,
the devil, angels, et cetera, right, or you know, some

(01:12:54):
type of like supernatural happening that could be within the
earth realm. But you know, I guess like the older
that I got and the more that I started to
move away from that way of thinking, I started to
think like, you know, suggestice conversation can definitely plan certain
ideas in your head that can be the point where

(01:13:18):
it can blow it up to make to make it
seem like, oh, this is actually a thing when it's
really just your brain is doing like weird stuff, right
and and yeah, and I mean, like I would definitely
say that, you know, I am a person who experiences
like weird brain stuff on the regular, especially the older

(01:13:40):
that I got. My brain just decides to do this
like the most randommest things ever in life. And yeah,
so no goodness, like yeah, Kelly, I know, Kelly you
can relate to like you're like, what what did my
brain just do? Why did you do that? You know?
So but yeah, and my brain is like, yeah, you know,

(01:14:01):
deal with a girl, like damn, that's how you feel.
So I mean, but I think about but I think
about that particular because I remember at the time that
I experienced it, it seems so real, you know what
I'm saying. But I also understand that, like, you know,
brains can you know, hyper fixate on certain happenings and

(01:14:24):
and blow stuff up, you know, really than what it
really is.

Speaker 2 (01:14:27):
Right.

Speaker 1 (01:14:27):
I used to think my brain was the most important
important part of my body. And then I realized one
day what was actually telling me then, So it was
your brain.

Speaker 3 (01:14:38):
That's that ego written organ that's in your head.

Speaker 2 (01:14:42):
How very it's pretty clever. Yeah, right, key, that's really clever.

Speaker 3 (01:14:47):
Yeah, I know, the guys it was yeah, go.

Speaker 1 (01:14:53):
Ahead, when you were about to say it was good
talking to us, naturally, it was very talking.

Speaker 3 (01:15:00):
To you guys. You know, of course, you know, I
love you with the love of the non Lord.

Speaker 2 (01:15:05):
Okay, you know.

Speaker 3 (01:15:07):
And and also I just want to tell your audience
that you know, not only are Kelly and Eli, you know,
on Truth Wanted as my son is screaming in the
background because why he cannot help himself. They are also
on nonprofits that actually premiere on the View of the
Team every Monday, Wednesday and Friday at six pm Central

(01:15:29):
Standard T. So check us out and like and subscribe
and share and all over the Great Boberation and you.

Speaker 1 (01:15:36):
Can often find the wonderful Cynthia over there as well,
very often. Yeah. All right, Cynthia, thanks, thank you so
much for giving us a call. Appreciate it.

Speaker 3 (01:15:46):
I have a good.

Speaker 1 (01:15:48):
Good I well, we had two other calls, but we
lost ones and while we were talking to Cynthia, but
we still have Stephen from Australia and he wants to
know do we have free will?

Speaker 2 (01:15:59):
I just took the next question.

Speaker 3 (01:16:00):
What's that?

Speaker 2 (01:16:01):
I said, Nope, next question, Okay, let's bring in.

Speaker 1 (01:16:04):
Let's like Stephen, how you doing, Hi, Kelly.

Speaker 5 (01:16:08):
I think I missed a little bit there. I think
there's some reticence about answering that question because I find
it a difficult question, honestly, and that's why it's hardly
why I'm calling Jack well well calling.

Speaker 3 (01:16:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:16:21):
It's been really perplexing to me because and I've encountered
this with with atheists, thinkers, speakers who argue that we
do not have free will at all, that our every
kind of decision is made. Well, there's the some of

(01:16:44):
the some of the people I've heard are like neuroscientists
who well, there's experiments apparently which show that our decision
making process occurs outside of our conscious and it seems
from that that they say, I guess what they're saying
is that our conscious is ourselves and whatever else is

(01:17:04):
going on that's doing the decision making is not us.

Speaker 2 (01:17:07):
But I dispute that.

Speaker 3 (01:17:10):
Well, I mean, I think that.

Speaker 5 (01:17:12):
Yeah, that that isn't that doesn't seem like a persuasive
point of view to me. But but these are these
are quite substantial thinkers, including Roberts's, Sepolski and Sam Harris.
You know they're not They're not duncers from my point
of view. Uh yeah, yeah, So I called I called
into the after show. Law I think it was you

(01:17:33):
who particularly encouraging me to call into the show to
talk about it.

Speaker 1 (01:17:37):
Yeah, yeah, so I I love with you. Go ahead.

Speaker 2 (01:17:44):
I don't I don't know of any reason to believe
that decision making takes place outside of the self. I
saw a video recently of Alex Okinnor talking to Ben
Shippier about it, and I really like it. Alex had
to say, which is basically, I'm in a pair of
is kind of poorly, but it's basically that when it
comes to any mental activity, you you can trace it

(01:18:08):
back and say was that determined within myself or outside
of myself? Like what was it that determined that? And
if it was that thing determined or was it random?
And if it was determined, you just push the question
back what determined that thing? And was that thing determined
or was that thing random, and as far back as

(01:18:28):
you go, you have to either reach something that is
determined outside of yourself or is undetermined, and in either
case you don't have any control over it. And he
comes to the conclusion, and I tend to agree that
with with those things being true, free will cannot exist, right, Okay, interesting, Yeah,

(01:18:48):
I mean.

Speaker 1 (01:18:49):
I don't think making a decision is exercising free will.
I think that's exercising free choice, and that's that's completely
different than free will. So yeah, okay, I mean, I like,
I have a breakfast analogy that I use often that
I wake up in the morning and I want bacon
and eggs for breakfast. I do not have bacon and
eggs at my house. I don't have a way to

(01:19:10):
get to the store to get bacon and eggs. And
even if I could get there, I have no money
to pay for bacon and eggs. So my will is
to have bacon and eggs.

Speaker 3 (01:19:19):
Now.

Speaker 1 (01:19:20):
I can have hot cereal, I could have dry cereal,
I could have some fresh fruit. I've got like sixteen
other options, but I don't have bacon and eggs. My
will is to have that bacon and eggs. My choices
are something else. So I will go with the free
choice of the things that I have. Right, I'm a compatibilist.
I think we're somewhere between determinism and free wills. So

(01:19:42):
you know, we get to make choices by the conditions
that are set for us.

Speaker 2 (01:19:48):
And I would push down back even farther Kelly, and
say that you're not choosing to want bacon and eggs.
You want bacon and eggs. You can do what you want,
but you can't will what you want.

Speaker 1 (01:19:57):
Right, fair enough.

Speaker 5 (01:20:00):
Push back to me? Is not and this is another
test in a pointed at this is not.

Speaker 3 (01:20:05):
This does not.

Speaker 5 (01:20:05):
Comport with our frame speaking understanding of free will. And
you know, I understand in the in the philosophical discussion
that this, like the test for free will, is could
have done otherwise, right, it's not, you don't. You don't
have to be an omnificent being to have free will.
Just have to have some choice, you know. I mean,

(01:20:26):
if you can't have bacon and eggs, you got to
choice of I don't know something.

Speaker 3 (01:20:30):
But that's that.

Speaker 1 (01:20:31):
That's just free choice, not free will, though. So that's
that's my point, And a lot of people get the
two concepts confused in my opinion.

Speaker 5 (01:20:37):
I agree, right, Okay, yeah, I hadn't come across that distinction,
so now that's interesting.

Speaker 2 (01:20:42):
Yeah, okay, okay, that's I think the I agree with Kelly.
I think that's the primary distinction. Like you said, you
you can choose to have, you know, something other than
bacon eggs, or you can choose to go get them.
But at the end of the day, you're not choosing
to want bacon and eggs. And I know this isn't
what Kelly said. I'm kind of adapting in a little bit.
I fit might view better. But you can't choose to

(01:21:03):
want bacon and eggs. That's just what you want. And
I think that's probably because like your body needs, you know,
fats and protein, and you're like whatever nutrients there that
that our body knows that it can get from that
that resource, it's gonna be like, I want that resource
because that's what I need. That's why we're thirsty when
we need water kind of thing.

Speaker 1 (01:21:21):
Might be craving protein, right, what do you think?

Speaker 4 (01:21:24):
Siven?

Speaker 1 (01:21:24):
Yeah, I was just gonna ask Stephen what he thought
of that idea.

Speaker 2 (01:21:27):
Oh, we he dropped it looks like oh he did. Oh,
that's excuse me. They dropped.

Speaker 1 (01:21:32):
Oh I'm sorry too, I'm sorry too. Okay, Well, I
guess uh, you know, we had gone over a little
at a little over on the show. I was sticking
around so we could talk to Steve. So I guess
that solid it. So, oh, what a great show. We
had a lot of good calls today. That was that
was awesome.

Speaker 3 (01:21:50):
That was good.

Speaker 1 (01:21:50):
Yeah, three good calls. So I'm looking. I got to
go back to the thing, to the document here because
I'm going to mess something up if I don't you
know one thing. I guess I did bring the crew up, right,
So I guess I did you know what I was
about to say, Let's bring them back up. Let's bring
the crew back up because like I, oh, look there's John.

(01:22:11):
We'll just bring John up instead.

Speaker 4 (01:22:16):
Apparently I'm crew now.

Speaker 2 (01:22:17):
Yeah, are you just well done?

Speaker 1 (01:22:19):
Man?

Speaker 4 (01:22:19):
I am not as talented as any of the crew,
so this is a huge letdown. Yeah right, you're not
meant to a great never mind.

Speaker 3 (01:22:29):
I was good.

Speaker 4 (01:22:29):
I enjoyed all of that. I specifically enjoyed Adrian because
it was his first time call and he handled himself
so well and what like, you both are so respectful
when it comes to conversations like that, and I really
enjoyed everything, and I was typing away saying, oh, this
is what I would say, and this is what I
would say. So I appreciate you like bringing me in
just with a few little comments.

Speaker 1 (01:22:51):
You know, I always say, nobody ever convinced me of
anything by insulting me and arguing with me. So if
I'm trying to really make somebody give my point, I
try not to do those two things.

Speaker 4 (01:23:01):
So I definitely think that Adrian has got scope to
be the new but not not as irritating as that person.
But John from Canada some good conversations going, and you know,
you never know where that's going to go.

Speaker 1 (01:23:15):
Hopefully you'll call back and we can keep that conversation going.
I really appreciated that one.

Speaker 3 (01:23:20):
That was good.

Speaker 2 (01:23:21):
Yeah, regardless of where his journey ends up, I do.
I wanted to call back. I liked talking to him.

Speaker 1 (01:23:25):
Yeah, So what else did you think about the show?

Speaker 4 (01:23:29):
And besides, I also enjoyed what Cynthia had to say
because I'm an ex spiritualist and like ghost belief was
my was my bag and that's how I stepped away
from it. And I was enjoying what she had to say.

Speaker 1 (01:23:42):
I was totally thinking about you when she was talking
about that, And I remember you telling me you had
thought you had seen a spirit when you were a child.

Speaker 4 (01:23:49):
Right, multiple and multiple, and it was fascinates me.

Speaker 1 (01:23:54):
I almost had you come up to talk about it,
we would have just flirted the whole time, so that
I was trying real hard not to you. Honestly, that's
because their boyfriend's like way bigger than me. That's a
good show, hey, gentlemen, remind us again, what's the question

(01:24:15):
for next We want the truth? Question for next week?

Speaker 4 (01:24:17):
Of course, what was the fallout of Jesus turning the
water into wine at the wedding? And don't forget to
leave your comments under the video, not in the live chat,
and then maybe next week you'll get a comment.

Speaker 1 (01:24:29):
Right out awesome, awesome. I wanted to thank everybody who
showed up here today. I had a great time. Thank
you so much for coming back and letting me have
a good time because I always love doing this. Thank
you so much. We hope to see you next week,
and remember, keep wanting the truth.

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