Truth Wanted 08.34 with Kelley Laughlin and @SkepticSpin

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, have you ever had a ghostly experience? You know,
something you just couldn't explain, but you know what happened
to you. Are you or members of your family sensitive
to goats? Are you currently experiencing apparitions that are interrupting
your good night's sleep. If so, we want to talk
to you. Yes, you so, give us a call because

(00:21):
the show is starting right now. Hello, and welcome again
to another episode of Truth Wanted. I am your host,
Kelly Laughlin, and if you're surprised to see me here,
just believe me.

Speaker 2 (00:38):
So am I.

Speaker 1 (00:39):
This is a live call in show that happens every
single Friday at seven pm Central, where we want to
talk to you about what you believe and why you
believe it. So you can call us at one five
one two nine nine nine two four to two or
through your computer at tiny dot CC call tw now.

(01:01):
Truth Wanted is a product of the Atheist Community of Austin,
a five h one c three nonprofit organization dedicated to
the promotion of atheism, critical thinking, secular humanism, and the
separation of religion and government. And every week we have
a very special guest, and my very special guest this

(01:22):
week is in Frakt.

Speaker 2 (01:24):
Justin, Hi, Justin, how you.

Speaker 3 (01:25):
Doing, Kelly's nice to see you. Thanks for having me
a lovely place.

Speaker 1 (01:29):
Yeah, thanks, thanks, it was really good to meet you.
I'm really looking forward to having a great show today,
so you too, me too. Now, one of the things
we do every week just get started, is we do
our segment. We want the truth and because of the
you know, the hustle and bustle and everything that was
going on last week, and honestly, I'm the one who
usually gets up and does that every week, and I

(01:52):
just forgot to mention it. So we don't have one
for this week, but I do want to bring Scott
Dickey up to do the one for next week. So
let's bring Scott up.

Speaker 3 (02:01):
All right there.

Speaker 4 (02:04):
Yeah, we didn't get around to a question last week,
but we're getting back on track this week and so
so this week's question and I want you to both
to put some great deep thought into this. The question
for next week is what would Jesus's podcast be named?
What would Jesus' podcast be named? So, Justin, you're our
guest tonight, what would be your suggestion there?

Speaker 3 (02:26):
Well, first of all, Jesus's podcast, every episode would start
with a three day of dead silence. Oh and then
it would just start in. The podcast would be called
Holy shit, It's Jesus.

Speaker 4 (02:39):
Nice Nice, Kelly, you got any thoughts on that?

Speaker 1 (02:42):
No, I was expecting to be asking this one, so
I wasn't really think of an answer. But yeah, so,
and I've been thinking ever since I found out I
was going to be on the shows. But I haven't
come up with a really good answer. I honestly haven't.
I was trying to find something really sharp and witty.
But hey, do you think, Scott, have you.

Speaker 4 (02:59):
Gotten as the backup? I'll step in for you, step
in place for you here. What I was thinking is
Jesus would have a podcast called only Genocides in the building.

Speaker 2 (03:10):
For what It's worth, For what It's worth.

Speaker 4 (03:14):
So all of you tell us what you think what
would Jesus' podcast be named? Make sure you put your
entry down in the comments below, not in the live
chat on the side. And then next week we'll read
off our three favorites.

Speaker 2 (03:27):
I know there's going to be some good ones.

Speaker 4 (03:28):
I know, yeah yeah, oh yeah, definitely is a fun one.

Speaker 2 (03:31):
I like this one, Yeah it is. It is a
fun one.

Speaker 4 (03:34):
All right, we'll have a great show.

Speaker 3 (03:35):
Guys.

Speaker 4 (03:35):
I'll kind of sit in the background here and we'll
see you later.

Speaker 1 (03:38):
Okay, yeah, we'll see you before the show's over. Scott,
thanks for coming up and doing that with us. I
appreciate it.

Speaker 4 (03:43):
Sure thing, Sure thing.

Speaker 1 (03:44):
I had a lot of fun with Scott this weekend
at the back cruise.

Speaker 3 (03:47):
So and for like batman fans or something.

Speaker 1 (03:50):
No, it's again, right, you would think, right, it's they.
The city of Austin has the largest urban back population I.

Speaker 2 (03:58):
Think in the world.

Speaker 1 (04:00):
So there's like two million bats that live underneath the
bridge in Austin.

Speaker 3 (04:04):
That sounds exciting. Yeah, you guys do that every year.

Speaker 1 (04:06):
We do well, I've only been doing the last three years,
but it's a lot of fun. I had a great
time this year.

Speaker 3 (04:12):
When you go into the bridge, they're just all these
bats just hanging underneath the bridge or are they flying
in and out or.

Speaker 1 (04:18):
It's like seams in the concrete work and they come out.
I don't know if it's hollow up in there or
they're just hiding up in the seams seams, but they
all come out from like under from out of these
these long concrete seams underneath the bridge and it's just
amazing how many of them there are.

Speaker 2 (04:33):
You would think there's.

Speaker 1 (04:34):
Oh, there's a whole bunch. No, wait, there's a whole
bunch more. Oh my gosh, there's even more. And they
just keep coming out for a good ten or fifteen minutes.
They just solid. There's just bats coming out. It's pretty
it's pretty amazing. There's one and a half or two
million bats.

Speaker 3 (04:48):
I think if I were to ever make the trip
down to Austin, I might die from the heat. I
don't know that I could handle it.

Speaker 2 (04:52):
It's pretty you know.

Speaker 1 (04:55):
Yeah, I mean I'm from up north myself, so I've
got to As I mentioned before the show, I I
live in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan, and half the
people I meet think where I live is Canada.

Speaker 3 (05:05):
So yeah, yeah, well even I mean, you're probably even
a little bit more on the extreme side of the
cold compared to myself as well in Canada, because I'm
on I am so far south in my province that
I'm actually more south than the northern tip of California.

Speaker 2 (05:20):
Oh I dive that.

Speaker 3 (05:21):
Yeah, so you know we knew that we get Like
last winter, we had like one week of snow. I
turned on my snowblower twice.

Speaker 2 (05:27):
Nice. Nice, I wish I could have say that.

Speaker 1 (05:30):
I often tell Canadians that I'm farther north than most
Canadians are.

Speaker 3 (05:35):
So yeah, well, I mean we all, almost the entire
population of Canada lives within like one hundred kilometers of
the US borders, so.

Speaker 1 (05:42):
Right right, yeah, you're all down there in the southern
parts of Ontario for the most part.

Speaker 3 (05:46):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (05:47):
I'm uh yeah, well I'm just south of Lakes Perrior,
so I'm pretty far up there. So what do you what?
I know, you have your own podcast. Let me let's
talk about that for a minute. What do you call
your podcast? Who everybody knows where to find you?

Speaker 3 (06:00):
So the channel is called Skeptic Spin. Genuinely, generally, what
I would do is I would have guests on such
as like maybe i'd have you come on sometime, Kelly,
and yeah, I've I've had I've had like John the
Skeptic come on. I've had Seth Andrews on there and
Godless Engineer and stuff. And what I do, or what

(06:21):
I've done in the past anyways, is I'll fish out
like three YouTube shorts that are quite I don't know,
triggering if you will, and I will try to get
some live reaction slash debunking out of my guests for
those three YouTube shorts. It's been a lot of fun
and it's it's a short, little I don't know, it's

(06:43):
kind of game show game show like, which is always
kind of my gimmick.

Speaker 5 (06:46):
Right.

Speaker 3 (06:46):
I've been entertainment most of my life, so I always
try to find a way to make it a little
bit more fun and entertaining. But I think I'm going
to start pivoting the channel into more created content rather
than live stream stuff. So yeah, go over to skeptic Spin, subscribe,
and and stay tuned for some some fun creative videos.

Speaker 2 (07:02):
Now you do comedy as well, do you know comedy?

Speaker 3 (07:05):
Yeah? Not professionally, no, No, I've been in entertainment most
of my life. Yeah, so I'm a game designer now,
but before that, I was in the entertainment industry, like
the stage hand, project manager type of person. So you know,
if there was a big concert going on in the
Toronto area, I was generally involved in those concerts and stuff.

(07:27):
So I've always been on stage. I tell people, I'm
more comfortable in front of like ten thousand people than
i am like four people. So yeah, but comedy, No,
I've never been at the entertainer as much as as
just the stage.

Speaker 1 (07:39):
Guy, my bad, I thought I thought I heard that,
but both of my brain cells might have been stuck
together at that time.

Speaker 3 (07:44):
So I was like, you're the comedian.

Speaker 2 (07:48):
I'm brilliant that.

Speaker 1 (07:50):
So tell me a little bit about game design. How
does how does that work?

Speaker 6 (07:54):
Well?

Speaker 2 (07:54):
Well, I know how it works, but well.

Speaker 3 (07:57):
I mean there's there's you know, there was a time
in video games, for example, where you know, it was
with the Wild West, right games, there were some weird
games made and they were always very difficult and stuff.
But you know, now there's a lot more theory involved,
there's a lot more things to teach regarding game design
in general. But you know, how does it work? I mean,
it's it's pretty straightforward for me because I know the equation, right,

(08:20):
I know, you know, if I'm going to put A
and B here, then that means that's C is going
to have to happen over there. But what I think
is most fun about it, especially with the what I
combined with you know, the atheism and doing live shows
and entertainment and things like this, is that I am
the real life creator of worlds, right, So everybody's God

(08:41):
created the world. I actually create worlds. I judge people
on the worlds they create because I teach the course
and I like to play that angle and then the
other angle I like to play too. Is that for
a Colin type scenario like this? I'm easy mode. If
if there's a theist out there that thinks they have
an argument that is even halfway good, I'm your best

(09:02):
chance to convince somebody. Because I'm that guy in a
Walmart who's shopping and you know, when the announcement comes
on the speaker and they're like, oh, tomatoes are now,
you know, two for ninety nine cents, I stop everything
and go buy tomatoes because the voice and this guy
told me to. So if you can come to me
right now with a good case, you might make history today.

Speaker 1 (09:22):
I'm just easy I you know what, I'm in agreement.

Speaker 2 (09:25):
If somebody has a really good case, give us a call.
Let's us hear it. I'm willing to be convinced as well.
I'm probably one of the well no, I can get.

Speaker 1 (09:33):
Pretty confrontational if I need to be. I don't like it,
but but I try not to be confrontational. I'll be nicety.
I'm sure Justin Willie has been nice to me, so
give us a call.

Speaker 3 (09:42):
I mean, I'm Canadian, right Herb're bred that way, you know,
right up until you start to get me and yourself,
and then you know the gloves will come off and
the elbows will go up. That much is for sure.

Speaker 1 (09:55):
I would imagine game designing is a pretty competitive business,
is that.

Speaker 3 (09:59):
I mean the industry now even too is in serious
decline as well, which is a little I don't know.
It's when you're teaching the course and you've got all
these students with hopes and some of these people, you know,
this is like a second career college, right, so they're
thirty forty years old and they're hoping to get out
on the other side of it and hopefully become a
game designer with some company somewhere someday. You know, But

(10:23):
you got to work it right, and you know, people
are getting laid off quite a bit, especially in game
industry right now. So but you know, indie games are
very popular. All they have to do is go out
and do the work and take the things that I
teach them and produce something. It's not as much different
than like when we were younger, we all wanted to

(10:43):
be rock stars, right We all wanted to learn how
to play a guitar and impress the girls and stuff.
And we could go to guitar class and we could
learn the keys and all of those things. But unless
you practice and write songs and perform, there's you're never
going to be a rock.

Speaker 2 (10:59):
Star, right know.

Speaker 1 (11:00):
I just got a question from the crew. They want
to know, what are the characteristics of good design.

Speaker 3 (11:05):
In general or like for games?

Speaker 1 (11:08):
You know what, I'm not sure you know that all?
Like that was all I got. What are the characteristics
of good design?

Speaker 2 (11:14):
Well?

Speaker 3 (11:14):
Okay, so one concept for example, it's a fun word
and I liked I like saying it because every time
I say it in class, it pricks up all the
students right away. And it's you got to have good
wienis okay, And then that's the technical term for it.
And now what a weenie is is when a player
is playing a game, you want to guide them in
the right direction. Now you've if you've played any modern

(11:36):
video games, some of the older folks like myself would
probably argue that games hold your hand way too much nowadays,
that would be a characteristic of like not great design,
a good design. A designer would put a weeni in
place that would get a player's attention, cause them to
come in a certain direction through the level or the
map without putting up a big knee on sign. That's

(11:59):
an arrowisally saying go this way right. An example I
like to use for instance is Kelly. If you and
I were making let's say a horror game. Okay, and
it's going to take place at midnight in the forest, right,
big lush, green forest, and the player could go anywhere
they want in the forest. So how would we guide
that player through the forest to come towards the scary

(12:21):
moments or the exciting moments of the game. Well, maybe
we would create a clearing in that forest. Maybe we
would add a dead tree in the middle of this
otherwise healthy green forest. We would call that a weeni.
That would be if we were playing a game like that,
every player here would be like, well, I'm going to
go check out that over there.

Speaker 2 (12:38):
Yeah, right, So.

Speaker 3 (12:39):
That would be a good example of good design bad design.
I had a student once they wanted to do like
a racing game, but they wanted to get crazy realistic
with it to the point where they tried to code
pistons to explode with petrol or fuel physically pushing pistons
and things. It's like, why are you overthinking this? Just
make the wheels turn. You don't need to code and

(13:00):
engine and a transmission, and it's like you're way overthinking it.
It can be so much simpler. So yeah, that would
be an example of just word design or bad design.

Speaker 1 (13:10):
Is there you mentioned there was there was like a
down cycle in the business. What's causing that? Is that
I know there's been a resurgence of board games. Is
that part of it or is it something else?

Speaker 3 (13:21):
You could take some of the concepts that I teach
and turn it into board games. In fact, I had
entertain the idea of like doing a single module, for example,
on just board game, maybe even introductory. One of my mentors,
Scott Rogers, who is an author of a couple of
game design books, is also a board game designer, not
just a video game designer. So he's one of the
original designers of God a War, which is a title

(13:44):
most people have heard of. He did pac Man World
a long time ago, and the Bungebob games and anything
like that. But he also made like the Alien board
games and things like that. So yeah, I think board
games are definitely I mean, they're still popular. I'm not
sure that board games ever came not popular, but I
think they're less family night. Like, I don't think families

(14:04):
are necessarily doing board game night anymore, which is unfortunate
because I still do with my family. But there's definitely
hobby level board game players out there, and there's some
incredibly deep and crazy board games that come out all
the time that are that are really really fun. But
I mean, if I'm going to play a game with
a group of like mega nerds, screw to the board games.

(14:24):
Let's pop out the D and D.

Speaker 2 (14:26):
Right, yeah, sure, right, right, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (14:28):
You know you're talking about making, you know, making your
own being the creator of your own world. And as
I was thinking, yeah, I love being a dungeon master
in D and D because I'm God, it's awesome.

Speaker 3 (14:37):
Yeah yeah, absolutely yeah. But I mean as far as
the the client goes, I think there's there's some serious
saturation going on. Microsoft just keeps buying everybody, and then
because of that, other companies like Sony and stuff are like, well,
we're gonna have to buy some people too, so because
they're always struggling for exclusivity, right, like console consoles and

(14:59):
their games, they I live and die on exclusivity, so
they're trying to pick up exclusivity. But then Microsoft is
now going I don't know, they're doing something really weird
right now. I don't have my finger on it completely
at the moment, but they're kind of exiting the console
market and going with the everything market, like you can
play Xbox on your TV, don't need a console anymore,
for example, which is game Pass. So yeah, I don't know.

(15:21):
And they bought Blizzard, which is unfortunate, which was a
great company, and then there's companies like EA and Ubisoft
that are just terrible places to work flat out. I'm
just gonna say that like that.

Speaker 1 (15:32):
Right, I know, not without mentioning the business. But my
daughter was saying that was what she actually changed the
major she was went in in college because she felt
that the profession she was going into was just turning
into just several corporations controlling it all, and she didn't
want to work for one of them. So, but is
that something like what's happening in the in the game
industry as well?

Speaker 3 (15:51):
I mean, EA has always been kind of scummy, like
even going as far back as the original console wars
between like Sega and Nintendo Boobysoft. They might not be
all that bad to work for, but they're like a
game mill. They produce like one hundred and thirty games
a year company wide, Like they're huge.

Speaker 2 (16:09):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (16:10):
In fact, I think you know, everybody's familiar with their
more popular titles. But what I don't think a lot
of people realize is they own the IP to so
many things. Like they own just about every game show
IP for example. So if you want to wheel a
fortune game or a family feud game, it's gonna be
Movie Saw. And what's one of their biggest titles would
probably surprise most people. It's the Dance Dance games. They

(16:31):
sell them for twenty bucks and they release a new
one every year. But it's the same game, just with
new music.

Speaker 2 (16:37):
Yeah right right, It's.

Speaker 3 (16:38):
Just a great cash cow. They just could program a
couple of new songs in bom, send the same game out,
change the date on the box. Twenty bucks. It's I mean,
I'm on that side of the fence, so in a way,
it's kind of brilliant. It's like good for you, you know,
But at the same time, it's like, you know, you're
you're selling the same game every year, when you know
they could have just sold a two dollars update patch
or something to it.

Speaker 1 (17:00):
Yeah, that's pretty incredible. So I just want to remind
everybody that this is a Collins show, So we would
appreciate if you call us in. I'd love to talk
to you about ghosts. So I had a long conversation
with somebody on line today about UFOs and why they
think that there's a conspiracy to cover it up. I'd
love to talk about that. If you'd like to as well,
go ahead and give us a call. I really, I

(17:21):
actually really would love a conspiracy theory call.

Speaker 2 (17:23):
That'd be awesome.

Speaker 3 (17:24):
Yeah, for sure. Yeah, the ghost calls are always fun.
There's there's a tunnel here where I live that we
used to go visit as teenagers where it was always
the challenge to how deep you could get into the tunnel,
and everybody always swore when they got back out of
the tunnel they could hear someone screaming and they would
come up with scratches on their arms, and it was
all this like, yeah, yeah, this crazy myth of this tunnel.

(17:45):
No one ever ever saw the end of it because
you would start hearing screams.

Speaker 2 (17:49):
That's great.

Speaker 3 (17:50):
I never had the guts. I was like, I'll wait here,
you guys, let me know how it went.

Speaker 1 (17:54):
I'd been inside of a haunted cave, but nothing happened.
It was a cave in rock in southern Illinois. It's
an old It's river. Pirates actually occupied it for a while.
There was some people have actually been murdered in the cave,
but nothing happened to me while I was there. Used
to keep a big sign above the cave mouth that
said welcome. So when people were settlers were moving westward

(18:14):
down the Ohio River, they thought it would be a
safe place to spend the night. It's pretty good, pretty
good scam. Actually, when you think about it.

Speaker 3 (18:22):
Your your your love for like talking about ghost stories
and things of that sort, and I would I would guess,
then are you big on you know, scary movies and
things of that sort as well?

Speaker 1 (18:32):
I I no, not really. I've never been much of
a horror movie fan or a scary movie fan. Honestly,
tell you, the truth isn't that is that weird? And
I don't know my daughter loves them, but no, I've
never been a big fan of them. I mean, I'll
sit and watch them. I just would like if I
had my choice with three different movies to go watch
the theater and that was one of them, I'd probably
pick a comedy or an adventure movie instead.

Speaker 3 (18:54):
So I mean, I guess that's not that weird, because
if you like talking about them, I guess would be.
They're usually trying to take the position of you know,
what happened to you is not a ghost. Something else
happened to you. So if you were watching a scary
ghost movie, it probably would just be thinking about it
from the point of view of well, this is really
not real or it's not believable or whatever.

Speaker 2 (19:15):
What about you?

Speaker 1 (19:16):
Have you ever had any of those weird experiences that
people might say was a ghost or think was a ghost.

Speaker 3 (19:22):
No, I've never bought into the whole ghost story thing.
I mean, the only real ghost story I kind of
have is there was a TV show here in Canada
called Kenny Versus Spenny. I don't know if you're familiar
with it, but they're basically just two best friends that
they would do the classic like competitions that with their
best friend anything that we would ever done as younger

(19:44):
lads with our buddies, all the differences. They take it
to a little bit of the extreme level. And there
was one particular episode where they went to The competition
was who can spend the night in a haunted house?
And I'm familiar with the house. And it was really
really funny because the one guy on the show will
always do everything he can to get the other guy
to give up or quit, and the other guy knows
that's gonna happen, so he handcuffs himself to the radiator.

(20:06):
And so now the other buddy is like, he's putting
up candles and pentagrams and he's making all kinds of
ghost noises and the guy is so scared to death,
but he can't go anywhere. He's handcuffed to a radiator.
And suddenly a loud crash happens and everybody runs out
of the house, the camera crew, everybody leaves except the
one guy still in the house handcuffed to the radiator.

(20:28):
And it turned out what happened was is the crane
next door for the new construction site had fallen over
nice but yeah, it was. It was super super entertaining
to hear that story. The personal ghost stories, I don't
really have any. I've been to some haunted houses. I mean,
I live in Niagara, so there's some pretty popular on

(20:49):
honded houses down here, and my dad took us to
one once. And there's the whole rule where if you
said the word nightmare, they turn the lights on and
come let you out right, so if you got too scared.

Speaker 2 (21:00):
I never heard that one.

Speaker 1 (21:01):
Now this is going to sound really weird and coincidental,
but I live right across the river from Niagara. Oh wow, Okay,
in Niagara and the same river.

Speaker 3 (21:10):
Take a swim someday, come visit.

Speaker 2 (21:11):
Yeah, there you go.

Speaker 1 (21:13):
A TP seeker And the chat said, what, there's no
UFOs sidings in Canada.

Speaker 3 (21:17):
Well, Canada actually has a UFO landing site in Alberta.
They built a landing pad. So if there's any UFOs
planning to come, if there's any UFOs in the sound
of my voice, there's a spot for you to park
in Alberta. Just come on land it's all ready for you.
It's literally just giant concrete raised platform that they built
as like a tourist attraction. There's a time capsule they

(21:41):
buried there with the intention of like opening up the
time capsule like nineteen or twenty sixty three or something.
They're going to open it, so yeah, that'll be fun.
But am I aware of any UFO sightings?

Speaker 5 (21:54):
No.

Speaker 3 (21:54):
I mean I watch a lot of YouTube videos about
the UFOs, but I always watched from the point of
view of being a game designer. I'm into graphic design
and stuff as well, and three D graphics and things,
so I'm always looking for the how did they do it? Not?
Is this real? Like I start with the it's not real,
and then it goes into the how would you do this?

Speaker 6 (22:14):
Right? Right? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (22:15):
I always like to if you're going to show me
something like that, show me how either it was done
or how it could have been done and right. Scott Dickey,
who is our backup post tonight, is a math teacher
and one of the things just from hanging out around him,
I will often ask people, like in a text conversation,
I'll put up the math question two plus three equals

(22:38):
five and then rewrite it with words, so like, let's
say young Earth plus what your question mark equals God?
What's the question mark? Filling that question mark for me?
So you know, breaking it down into a math problem
like that with some people really helps them kind of
lets them show that they don't really know what they're
talking about a lot of the time.

Speaker 3 (22:59):
So I find that a lot of those, like Young
Earth creationist types, they find their one argument and they
specialize in that alone, and they hang on to that
like a dog with a chew toy. They just they
don't let go of it. And those are always, you know,
if you ask them, what's your proof for Young Earth,
they bring up that argument, right, Like I heard one

(23:20):
today involving the idea that just not the idea, but
apparently there's two cold spots as you get closer to
the Earth's core, and this guy was going on, well,
if these spots aren't molten and melted by now, then
that means that they haven't been there very long, and
therefore young Earth. And it's just like, well, no, no,
long it would take for like a chunk of rock

(23:42):
like that to get to temperature to become molten, you know,
and not to mention the time it takes for that
slab of rock to get down to that level, right,
like for Earth to constantly overlap and push rock down,
that's a billion years.

Speaker 2 (23:58):
Right there, right at the edges of the plates.

Speaker 3 (24:01):
Yeah yeah, but this person was taking that to me like,
oh no, but it's been there and it's not molden yet,
so young eerth And I'll bet you I could probably
find the same person six or seven other videos with
the same argument, being like, this is my argument for
younger and that's the only thing. And then they'll throw
all kinds of like big words in there to confuse

(24:23):
you in technical terms that even that you know they
don't understand what those words mean, but they read it somewhere,
and then they'll quote mine some Young Earth creation as scientists,
you know, yeah.

Speaker 1 (24:34):
Right right.

Speaker 3 (24:35):
Particularly, I was even going on about how he was
published and it's pure reviewed and it's like, oh yeah,
and what page where were you published? And it's like
prager you, And it's like come on.

Speaker 2 (24:49):
And I've noticed with a lot of those.

Speaker 1 (24:50):
People too, you can actually show them actual, real scientific
evidence and they'll just either ignore it or deny it.
So there's just nothing you can do with somebody who
is so it so bought into something like that.

Speaker 2 (25:02):
And it's just you know, it's human nature.

Speaker 1 (25:04):
If I buy into something like that, I'm not going
to admit in front of everybody that I've been wrong.
It's just something that we're not going to do. So,
you know, I try not to argue with them about it,
but it maybe, you know, ask him a few questions
that maybe help make them think for the rest of
the week that you know, you know, maybe I don't
have an answer to that question. So that's what I
hopefully can do, is work on bad thinking altogether. We

(25:26):
do have a couple of calls that are coming in.
They're being screened right now. I did before we get
the calls, though, I did want to thank our thank
our Every week my brain cells get stuck together again.
Every week we think one of our patreons over on
our patrons over on Patreon to toy boat.

Speaker 2 (25:46):
Toy boat.

Speaker 1 (25:47):
Okay, I can do it now, and I wanted to
do that. I wanted to thank one of our patreons.
And this week our random patreon is here comes Jonathan Roudebush.

Speaker 7 (25:58):
Hey.

Speaker 1 (25:58):
I know that guy. I was just hanging out with
him last weekend. So thanks Jonathan, and thanks to every
brother one of our patriots, our patroons on Patreon. We
really appreciate, appreciated, And if you would like to help
us by donating on Patreon. You can too at tiny
dot cc slash patreon. Tw So, yeah, thank you very much.

(26:19):
And now I think it is probably hopefully time that
we can take one of these calls. What do we
got here? Are we ready?

Speaker 2 (26:28):
I'm not sure?

Speaker 1 (26:29):
Sure, I'm not sure there looks like they might still
be screened. No, I think we can get Nick here.
So we got Nick Lyson. He wants to talk about veganism.
Oh cool, Well hello, am I audible?

Speaker 2 (26:40):
Yeah? Hi Nick? How you doing?

Speaker 7 (26:42):
Nick?

Speaker 5 (26:43):
I've never tried.

Speaker 3 (26:44):
Yeah, I can hear you?

Speaker 2 (26:45):
Great, Yeah, I've got it.

Speaker 1 (26:47):
Can a decent person take the lives of a vulnerable
love capable beings with their only unbeing taste, pleasure, having inconvenience?

Speaker 6 (26:55):
Ye?

Speaker 2 (26:56):
Is that your question? Yeah?

Speaker 5 (26:57):
I mean I do the title there. There shouldn't be
an a before vulnerable, but other than that, and that's it. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (27:03):
Okay, Well I assume you're a vegan.

Speaker 2 (27:05):
I was gonna say that too.

Speaker 5 (27:07):
Yeah, so uh well yeah, or I don't think or
I don't think I'm a decent person. But no, yeah,
I've been a vegan for thirty years, and I also
don't think i'll be really a decent person. So you
can be you feel like you're not a decent person
and be a vegan, but you can't not be a
vegan and seriously consider yourself a decent person.

Speaker 1 (27:25):
You could consider yourself or feel like one. Right still,
maybe somebody else might not consider you one, but you
yourself might feel not feel bad about it.

Speaker 5 (27:32):
Oh yeah, yeah no, But I kind of feel like
there's something like deep down that would tell us that
that we're we're doing something wrong, even if we may
not be conscious of it. Kind of look at deep down.

Speaker 1 (27:43):
I'm not I'm not sure that that happens with everybody.
I'm really not, but but I you know, I maybe
it's something that should happen with everybody. I have always
thought that everybody who meets meat should have to kill
and clean an animal at least once in their life,
so you know, to understand what it is that that
you're you know, what you're eating.

Speaker 5 (28:01):
So the problem is that is that like you know,
like you want to have like a serial killer like
Jeffrey Dahmer, and it's like, well, you better kill a
human if you want to do it, if you want
to eat them. He's like, yeah, sure, I'll go ahead
and do it. You know, it doesn't necessarily.

Speaker 1 (28:12):
Mean you're just saying an animal that I'm not just
saying any animal, you know, like even if it's just
a blue yo, it's just a small fish that you're
gonna eat. I just think that everybody should have to
do it at least once. That's I'm not saying. I'm
not saying people should go out and start being cereal
killing need humans.

Speaker 2 (28:27):
But you know, I'm just saying that I.

Speaker 1 (28:30):
Think everybody should and the process behind causing death and
preparing an animal for food right now, I understand that.

Speaker 5 (28:37):
I just I just don't know if people necessarily and
it's not a good thing for people to sensitize themselves
to such a degree that they can do these horrible things.
Maybe it's better for people to kind of do it
without actually realizing the harm they're doing.

Speaker 1 (28:49):
I I I from from my experience from people doing it,
a lot of people like get just the opposite, Like
while I don't realize how horrible and nasty this is
until I actually did it, got my hands in it.
So I that's why that's one of the reasons I
think people should have to do it, because it brings
that realization to you, and a lot I don't see
a lot of satisfaction coming out of it from the

(29:10):
people doing it, honestly.

Speaker 5 (29:12):
So that's a good point.

Speaker 1 (29:13):
But you're having a different experience than I am.

Speaker 5 (29:16):
No, No, I think it's a good point. I think
that's a it's nice. I mean the problem is that
it's still encouraging someone to do this violent action, as
opposed to directly saying look look at some of this footage,
see how horrible it is, and they just stop doing
it man like that. You don't have to like them,
like try to see if you would actually be willing
to harden your hard enough to do it yourself. And yeah,

(29:37):
maybe that will cause some people to go gigan because
they just can't do it, But a lot of people
might push themselves through it and do something really really
bad and then have to like suppress all that guilt
and size themselves it will they explode? I mean that
just give it up.

Speaker 1 (29:51):
See that's you your you're like bolstering my point. If
that's if that's the way you feel about it after
having done something like that, then maybe you shouldn't be meat,
you know. And that that's and I think a lot
of people come away from that experience that way. I
personally am not a vegan. I'm a kind of like
a semi vegetarian, you know, so I and I'm doing

(30:11):
it for health reasons, not for moral reasons. So obviously
because I'm not a vegan, But I think, I honestly
think think if you're going to eat meat, you should
have to know that that's what it takes, that it's
this horrible, bloody, violent, nasty thing that is putting meat
on your tay, on your plate. It's not it's not
a question of self satisfaction. It's a question of demonstrating

(30:34):
what a what a horrible violent act it is.

Speaker 5 (30:37):
So why are you I mean, I am really curious, like,
give the fact you know how horribly violent is and
I see, we also know that you can be totally
healthy on a plant based diet. What could possibly be
you be using to justify participating something you know is
so violent.

Speaker 1 (30:50):
I have different moral standards than you do. For one, like,
I think life is life. No matter what life it is,
we shouldn't be destroying it if we don't have to
that so, and I don't I don't draw the line
between sentient life and non sentient life. I'm not even
sure where where we draw that line, you know, so right,
you know, it's sort of like a Loki's wagered kind

(31:11):
of thing. You know, you can have all the head
but none of the neck. So I just I feel
like if we if we have to kill something to live,
we just have to deal with that. I feel just
as bad about killing a carrot as I do about
killing a fish.

Speaker 7 (31:25):
So I mean, you can.

Speaker 2 (31:27):
Laugh, but that's the way I feel about it. I
think it's just the same.

Speaker 5 (31:30):
Do you have any paths like dogs are casts like
companion animals? No, I don't. Well I have a great family, right, well,
I mean if it's like a fireman came into your
house and saw that there were like three house plants,
and he chose to like save the three house plants.
Over let's say you know, your your son, and your
and your dog. And then you're like, why do you

(31:51):
you could have taken you know, saved my son and
my son and my dog. Why do you say these
three house plans. It's like, well, look, I think that
all life are the same, you know, plant life, animal life,
So I saved three lives. Like what do you want?
I save more lives, and I think that's kind of
a morally sketch.

Speaker 3 (32:06):
I don't. I don't think Kelly was trying to say
that he had like a living creature or a vegetable
on the same level. He said he feels just as
bad about killing a fish as he does eating a carrot.
In other words, it's not a problem. It doesn't bother
him as what I think is what he meant.

Speaker 1 (32:24):
Yeah, I don't think a plant. I don't think that
the house plants lives are more important than humans lives.

Speaker 2 (32:29):
I don't think.

Speaker 1 (32:29):
I don't think a dog's life is more important thanny
humans life. I don't think the house plant's life is
more important than dog's life. I mean, we all have
our preferences, right, I just try not to draw. You
can go in the opposite direction because when I say
that's almost all vegans too, you want to talk about
cannibalism now, because that's the other direction this conversation usually

(32:50):
goes with.

Speaker 3 (32:51):
In with me and vegans, I consider myself the furthest
thing from even a vegetarian, never mind a vegan. You'll
have to fight me to get to eat a vegetable.
Most times, outside of potatoes. That's pretty much the only
thing I like Indian food, for example, because it's just
a big bowl of meat and sauce and bread. Now,

(33:12):
I'm going to just take the selfish side of it
and say, look, I'm older, this was how I was raised,
and I'm going to my grave eating meat, and there's
nothing that's going to make me really change my mind
on that. However, I would fight for your right to
be vegan for as long as I possibly could. I

(33:34):
even think that vegetarianism is almost a certainty in the
future of mankind, at least veganism. I feels a little extreme,
it's a little much like but vegetarianism. Even my own
nephew who's ten years old, now there's certain meats that
he's just like, I'm good. And I think it's only

(33:55):
a matter of time before, you know, our great grandchildren
are gonna be like, this is a cow eating that?
And I think that's just the way the world's going
to go. And it also just becomes easier too write
because you're a vegan, so I don't have to tell
you have to watch and monitor your diet, everything you're
eating all the time to make sure that you're getting
the vitamins you need, and it's a lot of work

(34:16):
to be a vegan. But as technology and science advances,
you know, we'll add more things to our carrots and
oranges to get protein and things like that that we need.
And yeah, I can see a world that goes vegetarian
at the very least. I mean, I live in a
country of forty million people, one million of them are vegetarian,
and there's a vegetarian item on every menu in my country.

(34:37):
So yeah, I think it's a very real prospect.

Speaker 5 (34:40):
Now, I already brought up cannibals from the beginning when
I brought up Jeffrey Dahmer, so we've already kind of
covered that. Oh sorry, but no, no, I was just joking,
like you, I did bring up cannibalism.

Speaker 2 (34:50):
Actually that's cool.

Speaker 5 (34:52):
But yeah, I just think that like when it comes
to like, if we look at ourselves, look kind of
like the worst actions that we can possibly do, I
would say it would probably be some along the lines
of taking advantage of the position of power to oppress
a group of individuals that can't speak for themselves and
they're totally vulnerable, and impressing them to such a degree

(35:13):
that more animals are killed, more birds and mammals we're
all capable of love are killed us out of a
single week than every human in the entire planet, like
like every every month. There's multiple things, you know, if
they were all humans would be and we're not billions
there's almost one hundred billion every every year that is
include the fish. So it just seems to me like
if we really wanted to not like, if we really

(35:34):
want to eliminate the worst thing that we can do
in our lives, it would be starting with being, you know,
with not participating in purchasing animal product. And I and
I and I think that you know, and and that's
why I said, like, how can anyone really considerable de
dees in person if they're not willing to at least
do that, especially in the modern time when it's so
easy to eat and thrive and find tons of different

(35:55):
varieties on a completely plant based site, Like what could
possibly just by it?

Speaker 3 (35:59):
I guess that terrible? What's so terrible about like cheese
and dairy just in general speaking, just curiosity, like, well, vegan,
so you're.

Speaker 5 (36:07):
Still paying for it. It's a categorical difference between paying
for a violent leaf exploitation and an animal or not.
And the dairy industry definitely on the side of paying
for a lethal violet exploitation and animal. I mean, I'm
a veterinarian. You know, I actually spent my clinical year
work a lot of dairy farms, so I can tell
you firsthand that, uh, you know that we would come

(36:28):
into the dairy farm and uh and uh and look
and look at their charts, and the moment there a
cow's milk production started increasing around a third or four pregnancy,
would take a red marker to put an extra and
that and that am would go to the swaughterhouse. Like
that's her reward for having her baby stolen from her
and if their male killed a year after year to

(36:49):
keep her in mill, and then her reward is after
a fracture of an ural lifespan at quarter of a
life spent at most, she sent you a swaterhouse to
join her calves that were sent there when they were
first born. I like, why would anyone want to pay
for an industry that does that help with.

Speaker 3 (37:05):
Animals practices were different? Would you be okay with dairy products? Then?
If it was just the practices were different.

Speaker 5 (37:12):
I mean, so so like a practice in which the.

Speaker 3 (37:17):
That's just say there, that's just say it's forty thousand
acres of cows and they're free to breed and live
all they want, but once a week would come up
with a truck and we milk a few.

Speaker 5 (37:27):
Right now, now mathem like like just mathematically get exponential
growth if you weren't killing all the males. So you'd
end up, you know, having like one hundreds of thousand
cows of small tract of lands. So it wouldn't really
work matter.

Speaker 1 (37:39):
It's it's just a hypothetical question. I think we're not
looking at the feasibility of not doing this.

Speaker 3 (37:46):
But I'm trying to figure out where the line is drawn.
Is it really about dairy or is it about the
treatment of animals.

Speaker 5 (37:52):
So I'm uncomfortable with using another animal as as any
sort of means to an end. But I suppose there
are time is where you could have a reciprocal relationship
with them. We were getting something from them and giving
something to them. That's an equal value. Certainly, when someone
like adopts a dog from a shelter, saving their life,
and they and then they have the slugglers to the
dog and the dog runs and it gets you know,

(38:14):
fetches their paper or something. You know, they're getting a
benefit of the dog or they or the dog defends
their house or even the compas seeing eye dog. I mean,
that's a reciprable relationship with a dog they rescue. I
think that's a fine relationship with an animal. It's a
little worse.

Speaker 1 (38:28):
So it'd be like, okay, so it'd be okay for
me to have my own cow and take care of
my own cow. You know, it's just a cow, so
I'd have time and the ability to take care of
it and make my own cheese and milk the cow
and make my own butter.

Speaker 2 (38:42):
That would be okay with you.

Speaker 5 (38:43):
And and and keep all of the males alive and
a big pasture because she has to be pregnant in
order to have a baby in order to give milk,
so she has to so she'd be giving. She'd have
a cap every year. You'd have to keep all those It.

Speaker 1 (38:56):
Doesn't work that. I thought it worked the same way
as it did with humans. As long as you cat
milk in them, they was keep giving milk. That's what
you know. They with like with with human people, they
don't have to have a baby every year to keep
giving milk as long as they just never stopped giving milk.
That's how midwives, you know, made money throughout the medieval times.

Speaker 5 (39:16):
Yeah, I do that right, true, I mean, no one ever, Yeah,
I have heard that. Well, that doesn't happen just because
in the dairy industry, just because it's a it's a
very inefficient process. So I've really seen that first time myself,
that sort of practice kind of keeping a cow around
for a long time. I'm just trying to stretch their
milk out either if it's not as prolific as it was.
I mean, I you know, these cows been bred is

(39:39):
way more milk than they really should have to and
that makes them, you know, prone to things like mistitis
and and I guess, like I don't like it makes
me kind of uncomfortable with this idea of having a
cow like this, But I definitely think that in the
spectrum of behaviors, you could probably do that and maybe
f confiures for decent persons. Maybe that that's the uh,

(40:00):
that's the exception that proves the rule, because.

Speaker 1 (40:03):
It seemed to me like when in your description of
your problem, as Justin pointed out, thank you justin it
seemed like your problem really was with the industry and
the way the animals were treated.

Speaker 3 (40:13):
Well, yeah about eggs.

Speaker 5 (40:14):
Salt so that well, eggs is similar to the dairy
like they they sect the way that they hatch all
of these eggs. Then half of them are females and
half of them are males, and the male is going
to through the air building and ground up alive. And
so where's the dairy industry.

Speaker 3 (40:28):
The eggs right, So like they're just right right, Yeah,
that's the hatchery.

Speaker 5 (40:34):
So like yeah, so in the same way that nine
to ten million male calves are killed near to the
first day of life because they're access to the milk industry,
about seven to eight billion little baby male chicks are
either sufcated in a big bag or put into a
mascerator the moment they're hatched, because they're not useful to
the egg industry. And that's kind of what you're painful

(40:56):
when you by egg in addition to all the sufferings
that the that the females go, which is substantial, but
the eggs and sold, so what fertilized.

Speaker 1 (41:04):
So where do we draw the line between like sentience
or consciousness and non sentience or consciousness.

Speaker 5 (41:11):
Well, you know, some vegans will kind of disagree with
how much empisences I put on this, But for me,
you know, I'm very like, I think that the fact
that birds and mammals in particular have been shown to
be able to express, you know, very complicated emotional states
like grief and love and uh and you know, like

(41:32):
it's it's very like I feel like our first step
should be eliminating all of our you know, impact on
birds and mammals. I still think that, you know, we
don't know a lot about fish, and scientists kind of
suggesting that fish are capable of feeling pain and maybe
other complex emotions too. I think we should air on
the side of caution when it comes to fish, even

(41:53):
if I'm not as confident that they're capable of, by
their deaths, losing the opportunity to experience sort of transcendental
like feeling of joy and love that you know that
you and I make our lives worth living. I don't
know if fish are able to experience that sort of thing,
but I think they might be able to, so I
I leave them alone.

Speaker 1 (42:12):
I've seen you research that kind of go I've seen
your research it seems like it goes both ways. From
what I've seen, it seems like humans are humans and
fish are a lot of like some of them are
sentient and some of them aren't.

Speaker 3 (42:25):
So well, yeah, I've come, I've I've definitely, I'll let
you know that, I definitely, in my mind, have had
a lot of hard thoughts at the very least, like say,
dropping pork from my diet because of you know, pigs
are incredibly intelligent and I am a dog person, and
I've heard that like pigs are smarter than dogs. So

(42:48):
you know, I've definitely had those those long, hard thoughts.
But I feel like I'm just like I don't want
to say I'm a victim of my generation, but you know,
I'm a Canadian, so you know, we've I've had caribou,
I've had so many different types of meats like moose
and deer and stuff too, and I like it, like
it's my primary source of my diet. But if I'm

(43:09):
ever lucky enough to have a kid of my own
someday and they come to me and they're vegetarian or vegan,
hey man, let's do it. You got my full support.
Do whatever we can to keep that going. Because like
I said, I think the future does act the very
least lie in vegetarianism. But I'm not one hundred percent
sure that. I mean, you make a great case as
far as the dairy thing with killing the male calfs
and stuff, but I'm sure genetics will get to a

(43:30):
point where we can just choose which sex we need
and want, and hopefully we can stop that practice so
we can still have chocolate milk, because I like chocolate milk.

Speaker 2 (43:40):
I think we're talking about you know, no, go ahead,
go ahead?

Speaker 5 (43:45):
Oh well, I mean I was gonna go ahead, you
know nowadays, Oh you hear me?

Speaker 1 (43:49):
So yeah, yeah, yeah, I was just gonna say, go ahead.

Speaker 3 (43:53):
You're the guest.

Speaker 2 (43:53):
I want you to talk first.

Speaker 5 (43:54):
Oh okay, all right, well cool, we'll just please it
around me if I'm going out too long. But they
tend to ramble sometimes, and I I think that I
believe some great alternatives. Oh you good, all right, And
there are great, like you know alternatives now to like
chocolate like stuff like chocolate milk and tastes amazing. But
what I really want to focus on is this idea
of being kind of really like addicted to something like

(44:16):
consuming like an animal product. And I understand addiction because
I have a lot of behro addictions myself. It's why
I spend a lot of time doing Buddhist meditation. I
just finished a twenty day silent meditation and treat and
I find that, like it's really helpful to kind of
just sit there and sort of focus your attention on yourself,
but really kind of clear your mind, full control of

(44:37):
your mind. And I think that's just the way that
we can we can overcome our addictions. It's by having
total peace and clarity of our mind. And what they
teach you in these practices is that you can't have
a clear mind, you cannot find wisdom if you are
behaving in a moral way. And as I said before,
I think that the worst thing we can possibly do

(44:58):
is take advantage of someone that's helpless to us. So
I feel like if you the best way to overcome
like an addiction like that is to really make yourself
aware of how horrible it is for these animals, and
then it will be like lifting up like this this
this this like kind of the shell that you didn't
even know you had. It's a liberating feeling. It doesn't
require any sort of willpower at all. You have to

(45:19):
think about the victims. It's really easy.

Speaker 3 (45:22):
I'm curious about something. I want to ask you a question,
if I may, you can, Would you consider a vegan
diet for a dog cruelty to the dog or would
you Are you one of those people that think that,
like even our pets could live a vegan lifestyle.

Speaker 5 (45:38):
Yeah, the data is now showing that dogs in particular
can thrive by a vegan diet. In fact, the two
the two did actually football. Are you still there?

Speaker 3 (45:50):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (45:51):
Oh I thought I clicked out here. Yeah, so so
the so the oldest two living dogs on record are
the ones that were actually vegans fed dogs or plant
based dogs. So for dogs, it's nothing. Cats is more difficult,
But recent data is now showing that if you're careful
and make sure they have enough touring, you can also

(46:12):
feed cats of plant based side as well. H and
I have had success in doing that myself. Now, as
far as I mean, you have to watch out for
like you know, you know, stones and crystals and stuff
like that, Like you know, you can have a block blockage,
especially with male cats. So he has to you know,
monitor what you're doing because you don't have to as
set by their urine or or make it too basic,
and you have to watch their you.

Speaker 3 (46:31):
Know, their levels. As a human becoming a vegan, you
have to monitor like crazy all of your intakes and
vitamins and things.

Speaker 5 (46:39):
Right. Well, no, no, no, that's more cats. I mean, we're omnivores,
and I think it's a lot easier for us to
really be flexible. We're pretty flexible when it comes to
this stuff. We only need a beach well supplement and
that's it. But be cats is a little more difficult,
but it's definitely doable. Snakes. I don't think that there's
a way of doing it with snakes, So that's that's
a bit of a hard one for like snakes the
dogs and cats. Sure.

Speaker 3 (47:00):
Actually, I've recently heard about snakes becoming a possibility for
like a new popular protein because they breed a lot
heavily and quickly. And I've never had the meat myself,
but I do know some people who love snakes, and
even they struggle with that whole concept because they're huge
snake fans, but they're all so meat fans, so they're

(47:21):
definitely on the fence.

Speaker 2 (47:23):
Okay, Well, is there a certain.

Speaker 1 (47:27):
What I always wonder is is usually usually veganism is
a moral thing, and it's about sentience, right, like you've
been saying sentience or consciousness, So is it and so?
And that's why people think it's okay to eat a
plant even though it's still alive, because it has no
sentience or no consciousness at least that we know of
at this point. I mean, there are a few signs,
like you know, like trees creating antibodies of a tree

(47:50):
out on the other side of the grove develops a disease,
so we know they're communicating with each other somehow. But
I'm wondering where is it that we draw the line
with animals with sentience, like like I, as you said,
do you know pigs, cows, birds, those are things that
most people eat and are familiar with, But what about
other things like shrimp? I mean, I don't think a

(48:11):
shrimp shows any sign of sentience.

Speaker 2 (48:12):
Is it okay to eat shrimp?

Speaker 5 (48:14):
Or I think the one that begans mostly debate about
is mallus because mullusts don't have such a nervous system.
And some talk about jellyfish that there's their own nets,
so who knows what they're experiencing I think, like, but
like certainly like I think if someone were to eat
oysters and other malleks, I think they can make a
reasonable case that they're they're avoiding eating scentient animals. I

(48:36):
think it's a little bit harder for animals and centrists,
including the shrimp. I mean, bees are remarkably capable of
doing cognitive tasks that you would never imagine, like like
antiens are recognizancels and mirrors, and bees are able to
like engage in meda coognitition studies where where they kind
of know what they know, they actually make reasonable predictions
upon how much they how good they are to pass,

(48:59):
which is kind of wild. That means they have to
wager on their answer and they do it. And so
I don't know, like I'm not comfortable with really exploiting
any these animals. It doesn't mean that I think they're
all on the same level, you know, like in a
burning building, I'm not you know, I'm gonna you know,
save a person, you know, human or a dog over
a bee or a fish.

Speaker 1 (49:17):
Of course, of course, just because yeah, I just as
Justin pointed out before, I don't think they're all on
the same level. But uh, I do wonder, like where
where can we draw these lines at? And that's what
I was. I don't know if you recall me mentioning no,
Looki's wager, or if you know anything about it, But
that's basically what it is. Is when we have when

(49:39):
we have to draw a line somewhere and we don't
know where that line is.

Speaker 2 (49:42):
How how do we know? How do how do we
know what it's okay to eat?

Speaker 1 (49:46):
In this case, if we all became vegans and we
all decided not to eat sentient things were you know,
how do we know what we can and can't eat?
Who's going to decide that? That's what I'm wondering. I'm
not trying to argue with you. I think they're like,
I don't know, like.

Speaker 2 (49:59):
Throw a monkey wrenched into the works.

Speaker 1 (50:01):
I guess like to point out which some of the
problems that we might have with it in the future.

Speaker 5 (50:05):
So I actually have kind of I think a clever
response to this, which is that we take cues from
the system when like, especially like the idea of like
juries have to be you know, you have to find
that someone is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt before you
condemn condemn them to death. If we took something like
that from them, then it would be the same question
like are we served beyond a reasonable doubt that this

(50:26):
individual is not sentient? And and if we are served
on a reasonable doubt like like maybe like for like
an oyster, I'm certain to beyond a reasonable doubt, then
an oyster is not sentient, and therefore I can send
them to death without being concerned that I'm wrongfully doing so,
similar as like you know, sending like you know, a
and all of these animals, Like we have science and
studies and you have committees that really determine what is

(50:49):
the likelihood this being is capable of sentience, it is
capable of love, you know, and then make our determinations
similar as we would for for criminal cases. That's kind
of how I think we should do it.

Speaker 2 (50:59):
Okay, justin we had some feedback on that idea.

Speaker 3 (51:01):
I mean, I think, if if I summarize the whole conversation,
veganism is definitely more of like a moral point of
view and less of about diet as opposed to like
where vegetarians generally are just trying to be healthier. I
don't know that as a society we'll ever completely get
to veganism unless we can grow certain things in a lab,

(51:25):
you know, like animal byproducts. In that case, I mean,
if a cheetah can have an antelope, can I have
a cow? Like? Is it okay?

Speaker 5 (51:33):
Uh?

Speaker 3 (51:33):
I mean, I'm I mean in that respect, I'm just saying, now,
if I had to go Kelly's route where I had
to kill my own meat, and there's no way I
could never do it, There's just no chance, so I'd
probably would starve. I'd be completely honest.

Speaker 5 (51:52):
I mean, you know, I don't think so, I mean,
especially on nowadays. And and look, we live in the
civilized world, and we don't think our moral cues from lying.
I mean, they will take over pride and kill all
the babies and and force the people to maybe with
them so they can have no genetic offspring. That's actually
something humans do do. Actually, a stepfathers are seventy times
more likely they were responsible for the death of their

(52:14):
or their stepchild, and biological problcs are And it's like
what lions do. It's like, if you kill kill a
nonally adult spring, then you can your genes will survive.
But if that stepfather went in court and said, your honor,
this is what lions do, you know, so I should
be fine with killing this, you know, killing my stepchild.
You know, they'd be laughed out of court. You know,
they had the book thrown at them. So we can't
use the fact that you know, other animals prey upon

(52:37):
you know how you know the animals that they're stronger
than then as a justification for humans act that way.
You know, we're you know, I think we're beyond that, right.

Speaker 1 (52:45):
Well, you could you could say that some humans are
murdered behind the same you know, using the same argument,
you could say that some humans are murderers, so you
shouldn't act like a human.

Speaker 5 (52:54):
Yeah, well, I mean I don't know what it is
to be I mean, why doesn't even act like a lion?
I mean you should look at that. There's the line
of named comuniac, the start that adopted all these ORCS cabs.
She wouldn't kill the baby ORCS cats. She actually stove
starved herself to death protecting this like this, like pride
of ORCS cab that she collected. She wouldn't kill them,
you know, So what is it to be a lion?

Speaker 7 (53:16):
I mean?

Speaker 5 (53:16):
She was very gentle to those babies.

Speaker 3 (53:18):
I mean, I consider myself part of that food chain
and at the apex of that food chain, and part
of that chain for me is meat. It will always
include meat. And uh, I mean that's just that's just
going to But I'll tell you what. Yeah, I've heard
the stories even before you've brought them up here about
the industry and how it functions, and I don't like it,

(53:42):
but uh me going vegan, uh to go up against
it and protest against it isn't really a path for me.

Speaker 1 (53:48):
Unfortunately, Nick, I have, really, I really have. I think, yeah,
I think we've had a really good conversation here. I
really do, And unfortunately I hear these conversations turn a
bit acrimonious too often. So I really appreciate your calling,
and honestly, I think you should call back and talk
to Dan sometime, our normal our regular host here. Dan

(54:10):
is in fact the vegan So I think, yeah, so
I think this, Uh yeah, I think try to call
back when he's on.

Speaker 2 (54:18):
I I do.

Speaker 1 (54:19):
I do have some calls stacking up in the queue, though,
so I want to move on, But I do want
to encourage you to call back again.

Speaker 5 (54:25):
You guys are great. I loved it. Thanks a lot
for the invitation. I'll shortly take you up on it.
Thank you very much.

Speaker 2 (54:30):
Thank you Nick.

Speaker 1 (54:31):
You've been You've been a great caller. I really appreciate it.
So uh have a great night, and again, I hope
you do call again. That was I really appreciated that call.
That was a good one.

Speaker 3 (54:41):
It's a topic that I've always thought about. Like I
generally like on their side, if you will, I just
I can't. I couldn't go that road. It's too extreme
for me. But like I like, I encourage it, I
support it. I've I even ran a sandwich shop. And
did you know that olives are normally not vegan?

Speaker 1 (55:00):
I didn't know that about alice. I know that about
figs are often not vegan.

Speaker 3 (55:05):
Olives are normally stored in like a lactic acid, which
is just another animal byproduct.

Speaker 2 (55:10):
Mmm, gotcha.

Speaker 3 (55:12):
So I would I had a customer, I would specifically
like have cause you can get olive stored on like
olive oil. They just don't have the same shelf life
or something like that. So I would stock these other
olives for this one customer I would get once a week, wow,
because he was vegan.

Speaker 1 (55:26):
We do have call stacking up. But before we get
the calls, I do have a few announcements to make.
One of them is you can get merch. Yes, you
can get real merch from truth Wanted at tiny dot
c c slash merch ACA. There's t shirts, hoodies, mugs, mugs,
there's one up there and hatch. You can get all

(55:47):
kinds of cool stuff there. So check it out. And
if you want to hear all of our content in
audio form, please visit please at tiny dot cc slash
ae n podcast for all the latest ACA shows, all
of the good ones, all four of them. So go
check it out. And you heard me thank all the
patreons our patrons on Patreon earlier today. But I also

(56:11):
wanted to tell you another way to support us is
by sending super chats. We will get them and if
they are readable, we will read them on the air.
And as usual, if we get a super super chat,
I will do a super truth. I'll just stop whatever
we're doing in less one of the unless the callers talking.
I don't like to interrupt callers, but we will stop

(56:32):
what we're doing and we will give you a supertruth
if you send us a super chat. And and very last,
but also very not least, I want to thank the crew.
Let's get the crew cam up. Let's see everybody out
that's up behind the scenes for two people. Come on, crew,
I know there's more of you back back there than
that you shy guys hanging out in the dark there.

(56:54):
So there's a handful of people, a large group of
people to keep this show working that are always in
the background that you don't see, and those are the
real heroes of this show. So I want to get,
you know, shout them out to them and thank them
a lot, because without them, I totally would not be
here because I have no idea how to do what
they do. So thank you very much, guys. All right,

(57:15):
you're ready for another call?

Speaker 3 (57:16):
Absolutely. I just want to throw my thanks into that
for the crew as well, because this is my first
time over here. This is this has been a voyage too, right,
Like I've been watching you guys due to this program
for years and so like I feel like this is
the foot in the door moment. But man, that crew
behind the stage, the part that the audience doesn't get

(57:38):
to see. They are working hard. Like I had many
meetings and different setup boks with them and all kinds
of things that they're working really really hard to give,
not just to give a show, but raise the bar
for quality of the program.

Speaker 1 (57:52):
Yes, definitely, definitely, definitely. You can never talk too much,
talk too much or too good about the crew freaking awesome.
So I do have another caller, and I think we're
gonna like this one.

Speaker 2 (58:05):
It's Robert.

Speaker 1 (58:06):
He him calling from California and he wants to talk
about UFOs and UAPs.

Speaker 2 (58:11):
All right, let's bring him up. Hi, Robert, how are
you doing.

Speaker 7 (58:14):
Yes, I hear you. Well, thank you for having me.
You know, you guys talking about the people, uh, the
crew backstage. In fact, you're right about that, you know, uh,
they're they're really attentive about you know, the you know,
the callers.

Speaker 6 (58:29):
You know.

Speaker 7 (58:29):
I was waiting for a little bit and they kept
checking on me make sure it was okay, you know.
So they were very helpful and motivating. In fact, they
are hardworking.

Speaker 1 (58:38):
We've got the we've got the best call creamers in
the business.

Speaker 2 (58:41):
I think.

Speaker 7 (58:42):
Well, I agree, I agree. I appreciate their help and
you know, their attention. So I wanted to share with
you guys what's going on with me. So it's currently
going on. So growing up, I have experience I think
we all have experienced those moments and lives were questionable
where something happens and you can't explain it, and you know,
something just out of the ordinary, but yet you don't

(59:03):
know how to explain it. It was too fast, your
mind place straightt on you and it goes away. But
for the first time in my life, I'm experiencing something
that has been carrying about for a year or two
almost two years. So I work at this yard, right
it's a big yard. I am a security at night,
and this yard is right in the center and between

(59:24):
the ridge of the San Andreas Fault here in California
and the coastline. So I can see the sky over
the ridge and I can see the sky over the ocean.
Now it just happens that right away the ocean is
there's also a power plant. So, you know, one day
I was sitting, I do my walk around the yard,

(59:45):
and then I sit down for a little bit and
I was looking gazing into the sky because you know,
the stars were clear, the stars were sparkling and everything,
and then I saw this like fireball. I just saw
this fire in the air, you know, like at two
three in the morning. So I looked at it, and
you know, probably about I don't know, like probably about
no more than one hundred feet from the ground, about

(01:00:07):
probably a mile away from me. So and it was,
you know, so it was dark, so I could see
it well, and I was curious about that. And it
turned off, and I figured maybe somebody's doing some fire
or some sort of fireworks or something. So I could
look in that direction, and suddenly I start too. But
then when they started moving around each other and up
and down, like the way I can describe it the

(01:00:27):
best is picture two kittens playing with each other. How
they approach and jump and go up and so kind
of like that. But it's floating in the air, these
two fireballs. Okay, So I walked towards that direction as
I can get. I tried to record it on my phone,
and you know, have a little quality phone, and I
was very disappointed that I didn't catch any So finally

(01:00:48):
I just came back and I sat down and I
was trying to see if if my video was good,
but it was not, so I was disappointed, and I
went on to YouTube to watch a couple of videos,
and this is amazing the video that popped up. It
was a short YouTube short where a girl was recording
the same thing I just saw. You see what I'm saying.
That is amazing. I will actually not to leave myself

(01:01:11):
sitting there. And and the short that popped up in
my phone was exactly what I had just quitness. So
that was it right now. The next day I was
looking for this thing. Of course you're gonna be like, well,
I wonder they're where. In fact they were, In fact
they were, so to make it short, ever since, I've
been seeing them almost every every day. Uh So I

(01:01:31):
was talking to this other guy as a coworker, and
I told him if I see them again tonight, I'm
gonna drive over there, because I see them no more
than three to five miles away. So so when I
was ready, I was ready to go. I purchased a
better quality phone and stuff, not not so much I
qual it, but better, a little better. And so I

(01:01:52):
was graady to go record and I never saw them.
They never, I was never. So I was like, okay,
I was tired of waiting, and I went around to
do my walk, my walk as usual, and that thing
was above me. It was above me. Okay, and and
probably about I probably about picture a building of fifteen stories,
probably about that high. And so it's basically like a
like a like a basketball burning. Okay, And and so

(01:02:15):
I looked up and I recorded it, and this time
there was closed. I was able to capture it. Some
of they're capturing it recording it. Oh, go ahead, Did
you have a question?

Speaker 1 (01:02:24):
Let's say I I had, but we've been going on
for a while, and I just had a lot of questions.
You you were talking to somebody who work with about it.
They have they seen the lights?

Speaker 7 (01:02:36):
Well, yeah, I showed them. I have showed them the
night before.

Speaker 2 (01:02:39):
But yeah, yeah, you showed them the video.

Speaker 1 (01:02:41):
But have they themselves seemed like like when you're up
and up and said, hey man, I seen these lights
that they go, oh yeah, I saw those two Or
have they seen them independently of you?

Speaker 2 (01:02:50):
Is what I'm asking.

Speaker 7 (01:02:51):
Yeah, yeah, he said that he had noticed it before.

Speaker 1 (01:02:53):
Okay, okay, that's that's one of my questions about it. Now,
have you ever heard of there there's a few places
in the in the count true that I know over
lights like this have been reported. I don't know if
you know any of these places. Cole Mountain, West Virginia, Paulding, Michigan, Marfa, Texas.
Those are all those are three that come up right
off the top of my head. But people that have
been experiencing lights very similar to what you're describing for decades, right,

(01:03:18):
So I was wondering if you had ever heard of
any of these places as well.

Speaker 7 (01:03:21):
I have, I have. I had not before, but I
know that lately, especially within the past few months, they
have been very common. If you go on YouTube and
you're looking up fireballs in the sky, you're gonna find
an immense amount of videos with the same subject. So
it's been, it's been, it's been just however, however, you know,
growing up, when I was a child, I'm for metage.

(01:03:43):
So growing up, I remember my grandpa talking to his
friends about a fireball that appeared to them and and
the in the mountains, and they they wouldn't say that
it was a witch. That is what they would say,
it was a witch. And I asked my grandpa what
it was?

Speaker 2 (01:03:58):
Probably a media, right, No, it.

Speaker 1 (01:04:00):
Would be Have you ever seen a meteorite's like a media, right,
that's in the low atmosphere, will look is a big fireball?

Speaker 3 (01:04:07):
Right.

Speaker 1 (01:04:08):
I've actually seen one land before, so I'm thinking that
what they saw was probably probably not a witch but
just a media right.

Speaker 7 (01:04:15):
No, no, no, they know. I'm certain that they saw
the same thing that I see because they the way
they described it, the movement and what it did, and
they will come back. You know, I was a child
back then, so I couldn't make much sense of it,
but I remember clearly because those taps of stories you
never forget. And then and then they mentioned I remember

(01:04:36):
one of the friends, one of my grandfather's friends, mentioned
that to one of his brothers, that that the fireball
had actually landed on top of his car.

Speaker 3 (01:04:45):
Uh.

Speaker 7 (01:04:46):
You know, these are like crazy stories, but when you're
a child, you kind of like them. So but you know,
I've never forgotten. And now that I'm witness see these things,
now that I'm winning to see these things, I believe.
I believe I know what's going on. However, this story
goes further because when I took the video of this
thing both above me close, I sat down and I
kept watching the video. I kept just looking at it

(01:05:08):
and I and I was missing with the setting, trying
to make it more see if I could get better
clarity more Chris, so I was changing the coddlers and
the hues and everything.

Speaker 3 (01:05:16):
I want to jump in here first second if I can,
real quick, Yeah, please do so, Robert. Something really interesting
that you're doing here that I'm fascinated by, and it's
you're telling us the story and it's cool and it's
interesting and all that suff but you haven't told us
what you think it was, which is I think kind
of important and worth pointing out because by now somebody
would have been like, so there must be aliens, like

(01:05:38):
they would have made some kind of claim. But you're
not really giving us any claims. You're just telling us
about fireballs in the sky, which, uh, for me, it's
very common. It's not unusual. Even you said, you can
go on the internet and you can find all kinds
of people reporting being fireballs in the sky and stuff.
So my question to you, Robert is what do you

(01:05:59):
think it is or do you even have a hypothesis
on what it can be.

Speaker 7 (01:06:03):
I have a hypothesis, and I have the proof because
I have the videos. I have a a several videos
that I've taken a long time.

Speaker 3 (01:06:10):
The good Well, let's let's see if your videos are
actually proof of your hypothesis.

Speaker 7 (01:06:15):
Yeah, okay, well I'll tell you how I got a hypothesis.
I don't know what they are exactly, but I but
I but I.

Speaker 3 (01:06:21):
Have I know. I don't want to know how you
got the hypothesis. Just tell us what it is.

Speaker 2 (01:06:24):
Yeah, what do you think they are? What do you
think these lights are?

Speaker 7 (01:06:27):
Okay, I'll tell you. Like this, I saw a video,
so so let me let me stay to you like
it sucked me. Hear me out.

Speaker 5 (01:06:33):
It's forth there.

Speaker 7 (01:06:34):
So the video that I took, the best video, the
close up, the closest video that I took. It was
above me. So I was notting with the settings, trying
to get if I get a crisper image, and I
was swinging in and you know, working with the video,
and so I was able to, uh, kind of like
on one of the settings, I was able to kind
of like highlight it, you know, it just kind of
changes colors and stuff. Right, But it was very it

(01:06:55):
was very I was able to see like a structure
within the fire, So it wasn't just like a fireball now,
it was actually like something in there in the fire,
you see what I'm saying. So I kept trying to
SWW men, and I couldn't make up what it was.
It just looked like like a spider, you know, not
exactly like a spider, but picture like a spider, right,
like a structure within the fire like spider.

Speaker 2 (01:07:15):
Like a spider.

Speaker 3 (01:07:17):
Yes, a few weeks, what is the hypothesis?

Speaker 7 (01:07:20):
Well, okay, so after a few weeks I saw video
on EDG where this guy in Mexico and the airport.
He was able to film it. But the video is titled, uh,
finally someone with a high resolution camera. So so they
filled this thing in the airport. There's the daytime, so
the guys resolution is very it's very it's perfect, Okay,

(01:07:40):
it's perfect. So he's able to swe in films up
in the daytime. So this thing is not on It's
just like a like a jellyfish in the air and
you can see it clearly. You can see it got
tentacles and you can't see what it is bringing. But
it looks like like a jellyfish with tentacles.

Speaker 1 (01:07:53):
Okay, So Robert, we're gonna ask one more time, what
do you think that it is?

Speaker 7 (01:08:00):
What it happens to be the same thing because.

Speaker 1 (01:08:05):
That I moved, Yeah, but what do you think the
same thing is what do you think the thing is
that it's the same of.

Speaker 7 (01:08:10):
It's a jellyfish and it's a it's a floating jellyfish.
That's what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (01:08:14):
Okay, So that's that's what we're getting to do. You
so you think these lights are Do you think they
are a type of jellyfish that lives in the air
that we haven't discovered yet or is that where we're going?

Speaker 7 (01:08:25):
It'd be a marine animal because they say they come
out of the ocean. But you know, I don't know what.
I'm not gonna tell what X. I do not know
what you are. But did you know they disappear? They vanished?
You know? They go in and out out of reality,
is what I'm telling you, because it's what my camera
captured and you can see it clearly. You know. I
get to I putting together the video. I want to

(01:08:47):
compile it.

Speaker 2 (01:08:48):
Is it the video? Wait? Wait, wait, you got bear.

Speaker 1 (01:08:51):
With me, Robert, because you're saying things and we need clarification.
So you got to slow down. You say they're going
in and out of reality. Is are they going in
and out of reality or they just earth? The light
is going on and off?

Speaker 5 (01:09:02):
Okay?

Speaker 7 (01:09:03):
When the when the thing was flowing, flowing up about
above me, I was recording and the thing kept going
in and out, you see. So it wasn't like turning
off because you can see how it diminishes itself and
to so it becomes kind of small, smoth small, and
it disappears and then it appears, it reappears. But it's
like picture like somebody speaking the hit their hit in

(01:09:23):
and out out of a out of a hole. You
see what I'm saying. It just what it looks like.
It doesn't look like like it turns off. It it turns.
It looks like it goes. I mean it goes, It
goes into something and it comes out.

Speaker 3 (01:09:35):
But this could be this could be anything. I've been
in the Arctic Circle, and I'll tell you the things
you'll see in the skies up there, for example, right
like the Northern Lights, for example. We're also in a
day and age where like every day debris will fall
to Earth, like man made debris will fall from Earth.
The newest thing that people can spot in the night

(01:09:56):
sky is the Starlink satellite train. You just look up
and just see satellites, and people will tell you they're
right above my head when in actuality they're like hundreds
of miles away. Like the sky, the atmosphere, the time
of day, your location can change the effect of just
about anything in the sky. Right, you mentioned at the

(01:10:18):
top of your story you were near the San Andreas Fault.
I imagine this area you were in is probably a
little bit more away from the city. The less city
lights you get, the clearer the sky becomes, and you
can see things like meteors coming in, and those meteors
will break apart and they'll do spirals, and depending on
your perspective where you're standing versus where you see the

(01:10:39):
media enter the atmosphere, they might look like they circle
each other. There's so many things in the world that
could be caused or give you these results or these effects. Now,
if you want to start talking that they're jellyfish or
creatures that are popping in and out of reality, I
wouldn't do that. I liked your story a little bit
better before we got into to, you know, the what

(01:11:01):
it was, because it's you don't have the evidence to
support that it's some kind of creature that's poking its
head in and out of our reality. It's far more
likely that you know, the light shifted or changed or
your camera flashed or something like that. And the other
thing that I would recommend is stop looking at other
people's videos because it's just going to pollute your results.

(01:11:22):
You've got your own camera, you said, you're getting your
own footage, and just enjoy your footage for what it is.
Don't start comparing other people's footage because most of it's
fake or someone is posting these things on the Internet
that was just a simple media enter in the atmosphere,
but they're going to tell you that it's you know,
aliens crash landing. Like it's just going to pollute your results.

(01:11:44):
Just post your videos for what they are with question
marks all around, going hey this was cool, I don't
know what it was, and leave it there.

Speaker 5 (01:11:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:11:53):
I was going to say something similar like, don't don't
trust YouTube videos or X videos ahead.

Speaker 3 (01:12:00):
Okay, I mean I think I've made I've made my point.

Speaker 1 (01:12:03):
Okay, I think it's important Robert to think about if
if I'm seeing this thing, what are some what are
some explanations for this thing that are normal and mundane
that would explain this without jumping to some supernatural thing
or something that we don't know about in the world already,

(01:12:23):
do you know what I mean? And I'm not saying
that you will find an answer that way. I just
think it's more it's very important to run through that
first before we jump to jump to Oh, this is
something that I seen in the YouTube video. You know
there there are probably tons of mundane explanations for that.
And I even got a weird explanation for you because
you mentioned the San Andrea's fault. Now I have a

(01:12:45):
background in geology. I don't know if you know that,
but there are un.

Speaker 2 (01:12:51):
Yeah, there you go.

Speaker 1 (01:12:52):
But there are some unsubstantiated, unconfirmed sightings of lights in
earthquake areas and especially in days leading up to an earthquake,
So that is another possibility that and we're not sure
if if this is the number one, we're not sure
if this is real. And number two, what's actually causing it,

(01:13:14):
But there's some theories that it might be some form
of static electricity that the Earth is creating. So there
there's something that we don't that might be a fantastic explanation.

Speaker 2 (01:13:23):
It's also kind of mundane too, I agree.

Speaker 7 (01:13:26):
The other things have to be accepted, especially now these
with AI. You know now you can't even believe a
good video because you don't know if it's AI and
and and the technologies. Imagine if we have AI available,
what we have available, Imagine what what there is like
behind the scenes. You know. So it's true, you have
to be you know, yeah, totally. I understand your point.
I understand where you guys are coming from. But when

(01:13:48):
I when I begin to speak, when I brand, when
I want to call it, I I basically care if
I like, I experienced a lot of things in my life,
well not a lot, but a few that I can remember.
And you know there were just past. You can make
up what it is, you can explain it. I just remember,
I leave it alone. Get proof. I have extensive videos, uh,
a bunch of videos.

Speaker 2 (01:14:08):
I believe you have the proof.

Speaker 1 (01:14:09):
I believe that, Robert. I don't think you heard what
I was saying. I believe you have these videos. I
believe you experienced something. I'm not denying that. I'm just
what I'm saying is that we should try to find
an explanation that is normal and mundane before we jump
to conclusions. That's all I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (01:14:26):
Well, there are no or or don't try to answer it,
and it's way more fun for you as just this
magical experience that you had. Share it with the world
and let the chat go nuts. But don't let yourself
get carried away with the idea of sky jellyfish and
fireball spiders and things. Just it's Robert.

Speaker 1 (01:14:49):
I have one more call and I really want to
take at him where and the show is that supposed
to be over in two minutes, but I really want
to take this last call. So I mean, I really
would love to have it if you'd call us back again, Robert.
I love this conversation. I would love to continue it.
And uh, even though I'm not here every week, Dan,
who is normally here most every week, I know he

(01:15:10):
would love to have this conversation as well. So I
encourage you to give us a call back.

Speaker 7 (01:15:14):
Okay, Okay, thank you guys, Thank you for having me.

Speaker 1 (01:15:16):
Thank you, Robert, thank you for calling us. I really
appreciate it. But that was really an interesting call. I
must say.

Speaker 2 (01:15:22):
I do have one more call.

Speaker 1 (01:15:24):
And it's from from a caller that we all know
and love, John from Canada, and he wants to talk
about ghosts. Okay, so I want to bring him up
John's John's a perennial favorite caller of mine. I think
everybody knows by John. I'm doing good, John, How are you.
I didn't get much of a chance to talk to
you last week, unfortunately.

Speaker 6 (01:15:45):
Yeah, I wanted to talk to you too, but it
didn't happen.

Speaker 1 (01:15:49):
Yeah, it was I had I had two guys on
either side of me, and they both wanted to talk,
so I just let him go. But I was hoping
you'd call me again this week. So so it says
you wanted to talk about ghosts.

Speaker 2 (01:15:58):
What do you?

Speaker 3 (01:15:58):
What do you?

Speaker 2 (01:15:59):
What's your take on?

Speaker 6 (01:16:00):
Well, I'm skeptical about them. Well, well, what I find
weird is just Christians will believe in the ultimate supernatural force,
which is God that can control everything, see, see everything,
here's anything, knows what you're thinking with your feeling, and
he has ultimate authority and control with the universe. But
they won't believe in the spirits of the of the

(01:16:21):
spirits of the sased people who are still robing the earth.

Speaker 1 (01:16:25):
Ironic huh, I I personally do, I really do? And
I don't you know John? You know John the Skeptic.
He's one of our other hosts here. He was raised
as a spiritualist, so like he wasn't raised as a Christian,
so like he was raised to believe that he actually
could talk to that people. So that might it might
be a really good conversation for you to have some

(01:16:46):
time if you call when he's hosting.

Speaker 6 (01:16:48):
Oh I'll have to do that. Yeah, yeah I would.
But uh so, but you're.

Speaker 1 (01:16:52):
Right, I do it, and it's it's I find it
really ironic that, like, after I left my my what
I thought were so perstitious religious beliefs that I still
found a lot of the atheists that I talked to
that still did believe in ghosts or reincarnation or karma.
So it just because you stopped believing in a god
doesn't mean that you gave up all that you that

(01:17:13):
you switched to complete critical thinking, or gave up beliefs
in supernatural things. So but you're right, it is totally ironic.

Speaker 6 (01:17:20):
So, yeah, it is. But I find that amazing. What
what are things humans are? We humans are willing to
believe in. I think that I think that it's a
tribute to uh think. I think that the term is
para where we.

Speaker 1 (01:17:34):
See yeah, yeah, yeah, we we often have in the
in the skeptical world, we often use para paradolia as
an explanation for things, and another good explanation with things too,
John is, I don't know if you've heard this one,
but Littlewood's law. Littlewood was a mathematiss an English mathematician.

(01:17:55):
And if something, if something has a one million chance
of happening to you, and you have something happened to
you every second of every day, let's just say eight
hours a day that you're awake and totally alert that
after one million seconds you will have experienced one million things,
and you have a chance of a one million thing
happening to you. And believe it or not, that happens

(01:18:15):
every thirty four days or so, so you actually have
a chance of a one in a million thing happening
to you about once a month.

Speaker 6 (01:18:22):
Oh, I never do that. I never heard before ever.

Speaker 1 (01:18:24):
Yeah, that's pretty interesting. Right When I first when I
first found out about Littlewood's law, I was like, Wow,
that makes so much sense too, doesn't it.

Speaker 6 (01:18:33):
Yeah, it does. That's amazing, but.

Speaker 1 (01:18:38):
It kind of it kind of it's a good explanation
for for really weird coincidences or things that people think
are miracles. Right, It's that well, yeah, these things just
kind of happen, you know, I don't know, I don't
know what else to say.

Speaker 2 (01:18:52):
They just happened.

Speaker 6 (01:18:53):
So yeah, okay, I just want to say this one
last thing I also find that made sure again. Look
at a power. People make a prayer the thing, the
thing happens, Yet the thing that they were trying to
make happen, they were already taking steps of doing what
they had to to make it happen. For instance, someone
that want prays that they want to quit drinking, but

(01:19:13):
yet they were going to AA meetings and then when
they're done drinking, they'll attribute that to God but they
won't get but they won't blame God. If the faces
having and you don't get you guys said.

Speaker 1 (01:19:23):
Yep, yeah yeah John, John, I I wish we were closer.
I would love to sit down and have a cup
of coffee with you someday, just hang out with you.
I really wish we were a lot closer. So me
too anyway, And actually I'm actually farther north than most
people in Canada.

Speaker 2 (01:19:41):
I was just telling Justin before the show.

Speaker 3 (01:19:43):
So yeah, Kelly has a bigger snowblower than I do.

Speaker 6 (01:19:50):
Well, anyway, I know the show is coming to an end.
I guess you guys need to get going and sall
let you go. So when I was talking to you,
I'll talk to you another time, okay.

Speaker 1 (01:19:58):
Yeah, John, I always I always have a it's always
a pleasure for me to talk to you. Thank you
for waiting so long for the to get on the show.
I really appreciate it.

Speaker 6 (01:20:05):
You're welcome. A good day.

Speaker 1 (01:20:07):
All right, you too out, talk to you again, call
me back next time I'm on.

Speaker 7 (01:20:11):
John.

Speaker 1 (01:20:11):
And you know, I, I know a lot of people
have problems with John.

Speaker 3 (01:20:14):
I don't know why.

Speaker 2 (01:20:15):
John and I have just always gotten along really well.

Speaker 7 (01:20:17):
I know.

Speaker 3 (01:20:19):
I've had a conversation with John in the past on
a different call in program, and the conversation, yeah, he
hung up on me, he ran away. Yeah. But I
guess he's had some revelations of his own. I hear
in the last couple of weeks or even a month,
I guess.

Speaker 1 (01:20:35):
Now, yeah, yeah, I mean he's been doing a lot
of thinking. You know, it's a he's been doing a
lot of hard work on his own. I gotta say,
it's uh. I think it shows. I mean, just even
just explaining Littlewood's law, you can see it lit up
a ball. You could hear it lit up a bulb,
you know.

Speaker 7 (01:20:49):
So, Yeah, I was.

Speaker 3 (01:20:50):
Watching the Truth Wanted episode with Dan when John called
and was like, I think I'm an atheist because I
can't defeed any of your points anymore. There was something
else to hear.

Speaker 1 (01:20:59):
Yeah, really surprised me after talking to him the way,
because he's he's had a lot of really I don't
I'm trying to think of the word maybe obstinate calls
in the past where he was really convinced that he
was he was right. So it's really good to see
to see anybody taking their views that they have and
they've been stuck in and re examining them. That's what
having an open mind is about, is to be able

(01:21:21):
to look at the things that you totally believe and
requestion them.

Speaker 3 (01:21:26):
Yeah. Sorry, she you can see she kind of just
she can do whatever she wants and a little I
can do. Stop for.

Speaker 1 (01:21:34):
We're pet friendly at the at the A C. A,
SO and here on Truth Wanted. So that's not a
problem at all.

Speaker 2 (01:21:40):
I don't have that.

Speaker 1 (01:21:41):
Let's say, I don't have the chat open, but I
know everybody is talking about what a cool doggie in
the in the chat.

Speaker 3 (01:21:45):
So, yeah, this is this is Aria. She's a great Dane.
She's just over four years old. And I had my
door closed, but if you've ever had a great Dane
in your house, you can't keep them out, Like the
doorknob is just within arms reached for them. So she
got in and yeah, he's probably just wondering where I am.
It's walk time.

Speaker 1 (01:22:06):
I think, well, we're getting near the end here, and
I you know, I want to thank you justin for
being on the show. I want you to again tell
us where we can find you at.

Speaker 7 (01:22:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:22:17):
So I'm over on Skeptic Spin and I'm on other
channels across the youtubes as well, so you know, just
just support the community in general and we'll cross paths.
And if you don't cross paths with me, you'll cross
paths with Kelly, or your cross paths with Objectively Dan
or you know, Secular Arty or who knows. So just

(01:22:38):
go subscribe to all the channels. But you know, I
can see my channel right there, Skeptic Spins in the
in the title, So go ahead, give it a click,
and I'm going to start putting out some new content
in a couple of weeks here, so nice.

Speaker 1 (01:22:51):
We we did have one super chat. I did not
get to it what happened during the call, and I
kind of spaced it out that I saw it is
from Crispin Slit for two pounds. I don't know if
that's real money or not, but I have got a
super true super truth for you. Did you know that
the highest point in Pennsylvania is lower than the lowest
point in Colorado.

Speaker 2 (01:23:12):
That's a pretty good one.

Speaker 3 (01:23:13):
I thought that's interesting.

Speaker 7 (01:23:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:23:15):
I also go ahead to Aline real quick. I just
wanted to comment because I chuckled a little bit inside
when you mentioned you had a background in geology when
you literally have a background of geology.

Speaker 2 (01:23:30):
Was totally unintended.

Speaker 3 (01:23:31):
But like, oh look, he literally has a background of rocks.

Speaker 1 (01:23:38):
I had a rock earlier before the show. You know,
maybe i'll show it now. Everybody thought it was something else,
but it's it's a folgar ite. If you know what
anybody knows what a folgar ite is, it's where lightning
hit the sand and the sand melted together into this.
So a litally interesting thing. And before we go, I
want to bring in our amazing, incredible, super awesome go post,

(01:24:00):
mister Scott Dickey, Hi Scott, how are you there?

Speaker 4 (01:24:03):
Hey there, good show, Good show. I'm glad we got
some interesting variety of calls there. I do want to
reiterate something you were saying earlier, Kelly, about how awesome
the crew is. You know, last weekend we had the
we had the bat crews, and I had a chance
to stand in the in the control room during AXP
and a glitch came up and they were just on
top of it, and you know, our crew is just

(01:24:26):
super awesome and there they really know their stuff.

Speaker 7 (01:24:29):
So that's us.

Speaker 4 (01:24:29):
I just wanted to make sure to reiterate that, but
I also wanted to throw in one thing and I
think Justin kind of made a big point of this
as well. It's okay to say I don't know what
that is. If you see a light in the sky,
It's okay to just enjoy it for that experience, and
you don't necessarily have to it. Not that the caller
was specifically saying that they thought it was aliens or
anything like that, but you know, it's just it's okay

(01:24:53):
to have that wonder and that that that sense of
not knowing something and I kind of get it can
motivate you to explore and to try to explain it.
But you know, if you can't figure it out, then
it's better and more honest to just say you don't know,
rather than to try to give it some meaning. So
so just something to think about.

Speaker 2 (01:25:11):
M thanks Scott.

Speaker 1 (01:25:12):
And they allowed you in the control room during the show,
they chased me out with a bull whip. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:25:17):
Well, I guess I'm not as much of a troublemaker
as you are, or maybe I made my stealth role.

Speaker 1 (01:25:22):
So before we leave, justin you got any words of
wisdom for us.

Speaker 3 (01:25:27):
Keep your head up, but keep your stick on the ice.

Speaker 4 (01:25:31):
Like a true Canadian n one.

Speaker 1 (01:25:33):
I don't know if I could come get any more
Canadian than that. So I want to thank everybody for
tuning in tonight. Don't forget what was our prompt for
next week?

Speaker 2 (01:25:41):
Scott?

Speaker 4 (01:25:42):
Uh, it was what would Jesus' podcast be named?

Speaker 1 (01:25:46):
Okay, and don't forget comment down below, not in the
in the chat on the side, And next week maybe
we'll read yours off. And I want to remind everybody
to come back next week and always always keep wanting
the true good night everyone

Speaker 7 (01:26:22):
Watch the nonprofits and join the hosts in the live chart,
Visit tiny dot c c slash y t n b

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