Truth Wanted 08.41 10-10-2025 with ObjectivelyDan and Thinker

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, hey, everybody, Welcome to Truth Wanted, the call in
show where we get to the truth, one call at
a time. Whether it's supernatural, spiritual, pseudoscientific, or something completely
out there, we want to hear it. So grab your
phones because the show is starting right now. Welcome, Welcome,

(00:21):
everybody to another episode of Truth Wanted. I am your host,
Objectively Dan. This is the live call in show that
happens every single week Fridays at seven pm Central Time,
where we talk to people about what they believe and why,
and if you'd like to call us, you should do
that because the lines are open now. You can call
it five P one two nine nine nine two four
or your computer at tiny dot cc slash call TWN

(00:44):
if you're new around here. Truth Wanted is a product
of the Atheist Community of Austin, a five oh one
c three nonprofit organization dedicated to the promotion of atheism,
critical thinking, secular humanism, and the separation of religion and government.
And every single week I'm always trying to have a
special guest. This week is know Different. We have Thinker
joining us today, Thinker from TikTok. Hello, Thinker, Welcome, he

(01:06):
damn truth wanted.

Speaker 2 (01:07):
Thank you for having me back. I'm excited to be
back again.

Speaker 1 (01:10):
Yes, And how long was it? It feels like a
year ago now, right? Was it that long? It feels
like it's been a while, right since you were wanting?
So what have you been up to since last time
you were on the show?

Speaker 2 (01:24):
Tiktoking, just talking it.

Speaker 3 (01:26):
I love it.

Speaker 2 (01:27):
Yeah, still buzting down believers night after night. They're a shift.

Speaker 1 (01:33):
Yeah, yeah, I you know, I like what you're doing
with it because it's kind of similar to what we
do here with the Collins Show stuff, except we get
to mute people if we really want to, and you don't.
You don't. You don't do that on your lives.

Speaker 2 (01:46):
She'll do it because they cry about it, like we
have the ability. Yeah, but you know, I'm rude right
if I mute them while they're cussing me out and
calling me out my name, so like I just let
them whine so they don't have the next us.

Speaker 1 (02:00):
But yeah, yeah, that's the thing too. Sometimes, you know,
I people have different takes about how people should do calls, right,
so some people are real abrupt. I like to think
I give a lot of leeway, but a lot of
people criticize me because they're like, oh, you're letting people
talk too much. That's like, well, because they're going to
complain about it if I don't. Yeah, right, So it's
a lose lose situation, it.

Speaker 2 (02:21):
Really is, because you take you listen to them, right,
and then you try to like enact their feedback, like
execute it and trying to make them feel comfortable. But
then they're gonna complain because you're doing that. So you
might as well just, you know, just do you because
they can't play either way.

Speaker 1 (02:37):
I don't know, I don't know. It's wild, but yeah,
I like again what you do because well, I mean here,
anybody can join in and call in if you want.
But it is even easier on TikTok to just be like, oh,
I'm just going to join in and you let them
and what people make fools of themselves? Right, So have
you had any fun conversations since last time you were
on the show?

Speaker 2 (02:53):
Oh my god, last night? Yeah, well I told you so.
I'm literally this week I've learned that when believers die,
they're going to have spiritual bodies that look just like
the flesh, right, And.

Speaker 1 (03:06):
That's interpretation in some forms of Christianity right where it's
like you have a new body in heaven, right, is
that what you're talking about? Well?

Speaker 2 (03:13):
Islam too, because I talked to Yeah, yeah, there was
a Muslim guy on the line last night and he
he wants to die here, go to the New Earth
and have a spiritual body, get a spiritual wife. He
gets the gift of teleportation. Then he gets one wish,
and his one wish will be to come back here
and be filthy rich. I said, so you want to

(03:33):
die and get a wish to come back and be
rich like you get rich?

Speaker 1 (03:37):
Yeah, Okay, I don't know if Muslims read the same thing.
I know, like you know in traditional Christianity at least
like they describe the new Heaven and Earth as having
like streets of goal and stuff. Right, So it's like,
how are you gonna be rich if everybody else is
rich too, you gotta you better step up? Yeah, I
guess huh.

Speaker 2 (03:56):
I'm trying to figure out how all of them are
going to be leaders? Like who are you lead it?
If all of y'all leaders, I'm.

Speaker 1 (04:02):
Trying to address at that point, you're all dead, Like
why am I going to listen to you? I'm already
dead exactly.

Speaker 2 (04:08):
But they did it though. That's the thing, because they're right.
I'm trying to figure out how their souls have teeth.
And I've been asking them this all week, like the
National Tee. They say, yes, the women of teeth, Like
how your soul?

Speaker 4 (04:22):
Right?

Speaker 5 (04:22):
Okay?

Speaker 1 (04:22):
Yeah, because when they're suffering, right, and there's a gnashing
of teeth, that's kind of a you know, yeah, Okay,
that's interesting. I always thought about that too, right, in
a similar way, because it's like, you know, you're supposed
to be in pain, right, but we know people like
who are born without the capacity to feel pain, and
that's why like they mess up their hands and stuff
and all that, because like they put them in weird situations.

(04:43):
So it's like, do those people suddenly get to learn pain?
Like how does that work? Like any nerves from that?

Speaker 2 (04:48):
I don't know, very low pain receptors. I'm trying to
souls have pain receptors.

Speaker 1 (04:52):
Yeah, exactly, did you hear?

Speaker 2 (04:55):
I mean, have you ever read The Apocalypse of Peter
the apocryphal text?

Speaker 1 (04:59):
You know, I've definitely read, uh some apocryphal text, but
I don't know if I've read that one. Remind me
about that one.

Speaker 2 (05:06):
So Peter's apocalyptic text of his version of hell is
men are hanging upside down by their genitals on chains
over fire, looking at the women that they lusted after
during their life, and the women are hanging upside down
by their breast over over fire by chains like they're
they're this is this is Peter Jesus said upon this

(05:29):
rock and build my church. Like this is that Peter
saying that this is what hell is?

Speaker 5 (05:33):
Like?

Speaker 1 (05:34):
Wow? And you know what the worst thing is. I've
been on the internet. Somebody's into that, Like that's not
going to be hell for them, you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (05:43):
I found a Christian who was into it the other night.

Speaker 1 (05:49):
Wow. Yeah, that's that's really horrific, you know. And that's
the apocryphal text from the ones I've read are always
like the most out there awesome kind of stuff too.
Now that's not awesome, but I'm thinking of there's an
a powerphal text for the Look of Daniel, And there's
a couple extra chapters. You know about that one where
Daniel talks to a dragon and drag I think the
dragon's name is Bell or something, where it's like, oh yeah,

(06:12):
Bail's a different thing. That's New test that's the New
Testament thing that they no, way, no, that's the Old
Testament too. Actually, yeah, it's a dragon named bell b
e l I remember, and I just I just like
the idea that there could have been a version of
the Bible where a guy talks to a dragon. That's
just anyway, I've never read that.

Speaker 2 (06:29):
Now, I got to go and look up. Have you
read the The Punches pilot one where Jesus goes to
Hades and he's like DC comics down there yanking everybody up, and.

Speaker 1 (06:40):
That sounds awesome.

Speaker 2 (06:41):
It is so good.

Speaker 1 (06:42):
Yeah, okay, all right, man, we got to look up together. Now,
we should do a show on that. That's funny. Yeah.
I like a lot of gen Z kind of types.
I don't know if you notice this, but I've seen
this trend like gen Z's who are like getting into
Christianity as like the for the aesthetic. You know, they're
really into like Gnostic Christians. There's like a thing with

(07:03):
there's Catholic tradcats, but there's also a bunch of Christian
gnacissism that's coming back because they're like, oh, you know,
God's actually the bad guy and stuff, and they're like
they're taking the apocryphy and stuff because like some of
it's cool, but it's like it's purely just for vibes,
Like I don't know if they have a sincere belief
in God or anything. It's just like because it sounds cool.
I guess it's just a weird internet trend. Have you

(07:24):
understanding of that?

Speaker 2 (07:25):
Yeah, yeah, a lot of them. Sometimes I think it's
just so they can join the panels and have something
to debate about. They just want to brag about a win.
I don't think there's.

Speaker 1 (07:33):
Yeah, yeah, I guess there's something about being a part
of a group that's trending, I guess, and you want
to fit in.

Speaker 3 (07:39):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (07:39):
There's gotta be some of that too, I imagine, but
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (07:43):
You read the Messenger Bible where like it uses gen
Z language. I think sixteen where Jesus is like, don't
go get a job, wait to like come, self help
is no help at all. He had the driver's seat,
but Jesus didn't swerve and like.

Speaker 1 (08:04):
No, that's not real, you're making it up serious, But
Jesus did a swerve. Jesus didn't Oh, my god. Wow,
that reminds me like back in the day, I I
had a I think it was like when Snoop Dogg
was like having a big h what do you call renaissance? Again,

(08:25):
it was like one of those books where they like
translated everything into Snoop Dogg everything. It was God, what
was it? The Great Gats beat? It was the Great
Gats Beat? And it was like, uh, he looked upon
his nizzle and said, I don't know, like just like
like that's what that reminds me of. You just put
it on some translate. I'm sure it's easier now with
like Chad Gpt to do that kind of stuff.

Speaker 2 (08:46):
There's a Bible for a b I doubt it the
other day. Have you ever read that one?

Speaker 1 (08:52):
No, wait, there's a Bible version that. I'm not surprised.
I'm not surprised. Wow, Yeah that's great. Yeah, Uh what
do you do with that? I don't know.

Speaker 2 (09:02):
You use it on TikTok, Like, yeah, that's true.

Speaker 1 (09:08):
Yeah, I don't know. Like I'm always fascinated by again,
you know, I'm talking about gen Z and just because
like there is everyone always said, oh, the next generation
is going to be the least religious right, But then
you see all these things, say no, actually they're they're
kind of vibing with religion a little bit, but it's
like not definitely not the going to church type. It's
just like like joining discords and like talking about weird

(09:30):
religious ideas together. Like it's it's it's more of a
fascination than it is like a I don't know, a
traditional sort of belief thing. It is kind of weird
to see you wouldn't expect that, but I.

Speaker 2 (09:41):
Think it's it's the hunt of it all right, like
because they feel like they're they're uncovering secret knowledge that
you know people have. Y. Yeah, that's what I think
it is.

Speaker 1 (09:51):
You're right. I think there's an excitement. It's it's a
countercultural kind of thing, right, It's like you're in the
know about something and it's kind of the hip cool
thing to be in that. Yeah, that's that's got to
be a part of it. Just weird that it's Christianity. Yeah,
I don't know. You think it'd be something else, like
I don't know, some sort of tribal religion or something
like really countercultural, but no, it's just it's just Christianity

(10:12):
with with some with a twist.

Speaker 2 (10:14):
I guess, don't give them any ideas. Like the way
the way they keep on like we're doing the rapture,
we might get a new religion out of that, because
this is how LDS started. I believe we're one of
one of the religions started by the Great Disappointment where
they kept re prophesying the rapture.

Speaker 1 (10:33):
Right, yeah, right, yeah, every every rapture prediction is a
great Disappointment, I guess, right, But now I know what
you're talking about. There was like a specific religious sort
of movement with that. I think. Yeah, our question this
week actually in the UH in the UH Chat that
we're asking folks if religion will ever be replaced with

(10:53):
AI or with God. I you know, obviously, I think
a lot of people have been talking about how people
are having unhealthy relationships and there's definitely like more than
one sort of AI cult out there, and no doubt
you know, pastors and stuff are using AI to like
help write their sermons and stuff. Right, So like how
how what is it going to be enough where people

(11:13):
are gonna rely on a for I don't know their
daily life. I mean it's already happening, right, But like
how big is that going to be It's got to
be getting bigger, right, It's got to be you know.

Speaker 2 (11:22):
Yeah, it's scary because they don't know. They actually think
that the AI is having conversations with them and that
is pulling information from the Internet. But there is an
AI Jesus on TikTok Okay.

Speaker 1 (11:34):
Hey, you were talking about this before the show.

Speaker 2 (11:36):
Yeah, yeah, I'll talk about thousands of people and they're
praying to the AI Jesus. The AI Jesus will read
the Bible to them, and they're gifting AI Jesus like
they're they're gifting queens and the AI Jesus is making bank.

Speaker 1 (11:52):
Yeah, it's probably like some guy in India just like
making some AI videos, right, like wow.

Speaker 2 (11:57):
But they don't care.

Speaker 1 (11:58):
So that's wild. Yeah. On a different channel, I was
we did the stream reaction to just AI videos and
there's a lot of I've seen a lot of Christian
AI videos of like Jesus telling stories like oh and
Jesus walked into the woods and saw Lahem and he
fed the Laham and this is like the story, Like
I've seen that kind of stuff. But you're saying, this

(12:19):
is somebody who is saying no I am Jesus and
I'm back and like giving money and stuff, like it's
that level of drift.

Speaker 2 (12:26):
Well, and there's one on YouTube too, like they don't care,
they don't think. It's kind of like a Bible, right,
like they the Bible was the first AI for believers
if you think about it, right, because humans wrote it, right,
Believers just believe it, and they ignored the hand of
the human or the mind of the human that actually
wrote it. And they're like God wrote it. God spoke

(12:46):
to the mind of the human. And so the same
thing with AI, right, Like they ignore the developers that
behind it. They ignore the people who created the TikTok
lie like that person is getting the money, not not
this Ai Jesus.

Speaker 4 (12:58):
Right.

Speaker 1 (12:59):
H Yeah, you're doing some lateral thinking here. I never
thought about it like that, but yeah, like you know,
I used to speak Christian and one of the most
interesting parts of my deconstruction with that was looking at
the history of the Bible and realizing, oh, these are books,
and these are written by people at different times in
different places, with different ideas, and they all just kind

(13:21):
of got conglomerated together, and we were sold that this
was a narrative that all made sense, but like that's
not what the individual writers would have thought. Like they
probably would have argued with each other, and some of
them each other, right, So that's that's kind of interesting
idea that you're you're putting out there.

Speaker 2 (13:36):
Crazy thing. They would probably argue with us. We're like,
that's not.

Speaker 1 (13:41):
I think for the past five minutes.

Speaker 2 (13:46):
Yeah, they'd be like, that's not what the fuck I meant, Like,
why are you You've been saying that? I said that right,
Like we'd be in arguments with them.

Speaker 1 (13:53):
And you know what's crazy. And I talked about this before,
but like it says it, it happens in the Bible,
Like they literally recorded Peter and Paul arguing with each
other on stuff, and like one of them hung out
with Jesus, you know what I mean there. Paul is
just a guy. He's just I don't know, yeah, really
very weird when you look at it like that. But
of course, you know, most people and I didn't either

(14:14):
when I was a Christian. Most people don't know the
context of the individual books and stuff, where they came
from them, what it is. They just think it's all
one big cool story, but you know, it's really not.

Speaker 2 (14:23):
Yeah, they don't understand the word context, although they it's
their favorite.

Speaker 1 (14:26):
Word to you, isn't that interesting? Yeah, they're always like,
you got to look at it in context. You know,
I was obviously, so we can't well won't talk about figures.
But you know, a recent person died and pee a
lot of people have been talked abound their death, and
somebody posted a meme saying, you know, we never had
the look up context for mister Rogers quotes, you know,
you know, talking about this other person that they're quoting,

(14:48):
and and it's like, yeah, that's true. Like you know,
if you're really a good person and you need it,
it should kind of come across as you know in
your text there.

Speaker 2 (14:56):
But it's funny how you need the context for the
God too, Like, yeah, the same, you know what I'm saying, Yeah, yeah, yeah, I.

Speaker 1 (15:03):
Would think that God would be a bit more clear, right,
Like I feel like he could have really done it
if you want to. I just didn't try. Didn't try,
or at least didn't care enough to try.

Speaker 2 (15:16):
But it doesn't care today, Like if he did care
back then, he don't give a fuck now because he
hadn't Updated in twenty five hundred years.

Speaker 1 (15:23):
That's another thing, like I think Jesus should have roaded
himself at least, Right, why are we getting a bunch
of other Judes to write it for him? How do
we know that? Did he fact check these other writers?
Like I didn't improve this? What do you mean? I
don't know.

Speaker 2 (15:36):
I don't know. And at least do better than Apple.
Apple update their phones like once a year. Jesus hadn't
updated his.

Speaker 1 (15:47):
I won't get for that new iOS for the Bible. Right,
where's that glass panel for the Bible? I want that, dude,
You know, that'd be great.

Speaker 2 (15:55):
Gold streets in him and bronze some of some gold.

Speaker 1 (16:03):
That's another thing too, because, like you know, evangelism is
a concept. It's kind of interesting because they're like, we're
gonna rely on this group of people to kind of
go out and do the job and spread the word.
But it's like you could have given people smartphones like
right then and there and be like distribute this out
and then exactly you've developed technology to communicate to everybody.

(16:24):
But instead people had to go on boats and stuff.
They could have died. I don't know. It didn't really
work with a lot of people.

Speaker 2 (16:31):
What like doesn't it say that he put the word
on their hearts, Like, yeah, it's supposed to be a
built in programming.

Speaker 1 (16:39):
That's a good point. It's like, why not just do
that for everybody? I don't know why we got to
evangelize at that point.

Speaker 2 (16:44):
Yeah, then he gave everybody a virus at the Tower
of Babe. We were talking about that last time. How
it says he confused the languages, and I say, he
didn't give a damn about whether those people was at
the top of that tower and they looked down and
say they want to ask for a world to take
a come down safely, and he didn't care.

Speaker 1 (17:07):
Yeah, that's true. He didn't really care about people's well
being back then. I've heard very interesting interpretations of that story.
I don't know if if you've heard this, but you know,
like that's what so a lot of some scholars, uh
perpetually this idea that God at that time, A lot
of early writings of the Old Testament are talking about
Yahweh as a specific being within like a pantheon of beings, right,

(17:28):
and so when the actual like coming up to heaven
is a front to like the gods like plural it
wasn't just like the singular God. And so there's a
couple of verses like in the Old Testament there and
in Genesis that use the word God in a different
way that they used the God in other context where
he would refer to like a plural sense, and that
like that kind of reads more like a Greek myth

(17:49):
kind of right, where it's like, oh, yeah, you you
you angered the gods and so they punished you for this.
Like you don't really think of the Christian God that way,
at least not in like other stories. But for some
reason in some of those Old Tests, the ones you
kind of do, it's kind of a vengeful sort of Oh,
this is why humans do this. Now it hurts to
be pregnant and give birth because you ate an apple.
I don't know, Yeah, yeah, very weird how that works out,

(18:12):
But I don't know. At least the Bible's entertaining on
some level, at least when you're on our side of
the fence.

Speaker 2 (18:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (18:19):
So with that, I need to bring Kelly in because
we need to talk about the question of the week.
Last week we asked you guy something in Kelly is
going to tell us what that was. What's going on
Kelly that much.

Speaker 6 (18:32):
My head looks really big.

Speaker 1 (18:34):
That's normal, though, Well my head is big.

Speaker 6 (18:37):
I think we all know that. So last week I
pold this question from last week, which cryptid creature would
win in a fight and why?

Speaker 1 (18:46):
Good question, by the way, I like.

Speaker 6 (18:48):
God was a good question. I really liked it. I
still like my answer the best, but of course I
have to say that. So our top three answers are
number three from gen fay A, you got some good
ones this week. Yetti's would win in a fight. They'd
lure every other cryptid into the Himalayas and then just
hiding the cave until the others.

Speaker 1 (19:07):
Throws to interesting sort of a Hunger Games kind of
scenario where they like, wait everybody out. Okay, yeah, right,
that's an interesting.

Speaker 6 (19:13):
Strategy that could work. I guess that would work against mckelly. Mcbenbe,
you couldn't handle the cold, one of our perpetual answer
makers and always comes up with good ones too, has
the number two answer with dragons will end up being
would end up being the winning cryptids as soon as
they realized that English lights Knights are now elderly politicians

(19:36):
and scientists and musicians, they'll be coming back out of hiding.

Speaker 1 (19:40):
That's true. That's true. Like when you think of knights now,
it's like the Beatles, right, like it's just famous British
people and they could come and fight them. N yeah,
that's a good point.

Speaker 6 (19:52):
Sorry, I got because I started thinking the English Knights,
and I got this vision of Stephen Hawking, you know,
jousting from his See why I started laughing.

Speaker 1 (20:03):
It's just st Stephen hogging jousting with dragons. Yeah, I
guess it, right.

Speaker 6 (20:08):
Wouldn't that be awesome.

Speaker 1 (20:09):
He'd probably have like a mech or something. He'd probably
be able to fight him with some super technology. I
don't know.

Speaker 6 (20:14):
Cool of course, of course you would an extending lance
be awesome.

Speaker 1 (20:19):
Yeah, that'd be sick.

Speaker 6 (20:20):
And our number one answer from Anastasia. Too many cryptis
to choose from, for choose from for a winner, but
I know who would not win the tropicabre he just okay.

Speaker 1 (20:33):
That all right? So the number one answer this week
is a call out on the the Tupicabra catching strays
for some reason.

Speaker 6 (20:41):
Well he does, he does suck. I mean, let's face it.

Speaker 1 (20:43):
Okay, okay, all right, okay, all right, I get it.
I get the joke. Now I didn't get the joke
at first. I got the joke now it just sucks. Okay,
all right, well thank you for those picks, Kelly, No
I You're welcome.

Speaker 6 (20:58):
And and before I go, the prompt for next week
is and this is a good one, really good one.
Person who came up with it as a champ. If
Aliens landed tomorrow, who should we send as a tour guide?

Speaker 1 (21:10):
I would? Yeah? So, so if Aliens came tomorrow, who
should we send as a tour guide? My answer to
this one I was thinking about this. Morgan Freeman would
be a pretty good choice, right, because like obviously the
boys and stuff, right or Harvey Harvey Firestein is my
other pick. I think those two gentlemen I think would
make great tour guides for the earth. But what do

(21:31):
you think, Kelly?

Speaker 6 (21:32):
You know what, the person I think would be the
best tour guide is no longer with us. I think
we should sign. We could have sent Fanton new Bourdain.

Speaker 1 (21:38):
Anthony Bourdain will be awesome. That's a good right, Yeah,
it would have been great. I like that as an
intro to g Mandy. What about you think? Or you
got a choice? Lamar, Lamar, yes, that's awesome.

Speaker 5 (21:52):
One.

Speaker 1 (21:53):
That's great. And then oh what if you got into
some beef with the Aliens and then they make a
whole track about that, a new tour comes out. It's awesome,
We're just coming alien haters. That's great. Good answer for
that one. So yeah, leave your best answer below in
the commons, see if you can top us. If Aliens
landing tomorrow, who should we send as tour guides? And

(22:14):
we'll read our best answers next week. Kelly, thanks so much,
Thank you. We'll see you at the end of the show.

Speaker 6 (22:20):
Well, thanks for the warning.

Speaker 1 (22:22):
Hopefully hopefully. I guess you could just go I never
see you again, but you know, all right, show, Thank you, Kelly,
and we are we should be getting into some calls now,
so I think we are going to do that. But
before we do, we have to thank the awesome patrons
that help contribute to the show. Every single week, we

(22:42):
always give a shout out to the folks on the
Patreon and so I want to thank everybody that donates
to Patreon. But this week's patron of the week is
going to be on screen right now in just a
second for me to read. It's iHeart Dogs. Thank you
so much. iHeart dogs, and thank you to everybody that
donates on the Patreon. You guys are awesome. If you
like to donate, check out the description and become a

(23:05):
Patreon today. And now I think it's time to talk
to some people. You're ready, thinker, I'm ready. All right,
let's let's get it done. I still thinking about that
Kendrew lamar bit because gosh, it'd be so funny you
hear about the Drake they dropped that lawsuit suit anyway, No,
that's we're not talking about rap today. You know what,

(23:26):
I don't have enough opportunity to talk about rap, you know,
music and news on this show. And you almost gave
me an opportunity there. But you know we should stay
on top of Let's stay on topic, all right, We're
going back to uh the calls today. We got Daniel
calling in from Canada. Daniel, you are live on Truth
wanted what's going on?

Speaker 7 (23:44):
Well? I was calling your call screener that you know
I called in last week under the screen name of
the Castle of Ug. Yes, you know, I've just been
using some funny screen names just for you know, entertainment.

Speaker 4 (23:57):
I did.

Speaker 1 (23:57):
I'll be honest. I didn't get the joke, and somebody
had to explain it to me afterwards that it was
a Monty Python thing and I didn't know that. So
I'm glad you're choosing a different this week so that
I don't feel dumb for not getting a Monty Python joke.

Speaker 7 (24:10):
Yeah, I think I've run out of funny names. I
was just having a little fun. But but we had
the discussion on the face on Mars. Yes, and you know,
I contend that not the lie about the uh second
image when the second image came up.

Speaker 1 (24:23):
And so so for context for contest for folks who
mixed last week, you called in last week saying the
face on Mars, I think it's called Sidonia, that they
made some sort of announcement NASA did when it first
came out back in seventy six. But like that, you
were saying that announcement wasn't a real announcement, it was
like a leak. But then but then they supposedly made

(24:44):
a second announcement and that the image was not real,
like it was doctored. Actually, I forget what you said
about it, to be honest with you. Yeah, but no, yeah.

Speaker 7 (24:56):
Go ahead, I said the first images came out and
people started seeing a face.

Speaker 1 (25:01):
Yeah, okay, yeah, and that's what it was.

Speaker 7 (25:03):
And then the NASA said, it's just shadows and light
because we have a second picture of the area of
Sidonia and there's no face to be seen. At least
that's what it says in this book. The book is
called the Martian Enigmas A close and by a guy
named Mark J. Carlotto, who is a who is a

(25:25):
imaging processing expert. He's uh, he has a PhD in
electrical engineering and he was a adjunct professor at Boston University,
and he's got he's got a good career. He's a
good scientist. He's not. It's not some crank just writing
out this just to talk about aliens on Mars. But anyways,
then you found something in an astronomy site and it

(25:47):
had a different story. And then you guys said, I
got it all wrong. This book is wrong, and that
and that astronomy site had it one hundred percent right,
and my and my and this book is all bullshit.
And I'm when i I'm full of shit, right because
I believe this, But this astronomy site was perfect, and
it's just not true. It's just that didn't prove anything.

(26:08):
That just proved that they had one version of it,
and this book has another version of it. But Okay,
what I'm upset about, But what I'm really upset about,
we can agree to disagree.

Speaker 3 (26:17):
Right.

Speaker 7 (26:18):
This segment came out today on your on your website,
and the title is driving me nuts. The title says
NASA lied about Mars and AI proved it. I never
said anything about AI. And then the secondary title gets
even worse. It says NASA lied about the face on Mars.
AI told me. So when the fuck did I say
anything about AI during that conversation. I've never talked to

(26:40):
you about AI.

Speaker 1 (26:41):
You know, I'll be honest. I did not post the
video clips today, so you know, we have a career
that helps with making the clips and stuff. So you know,
if it's an inaccurate title, we can certainly change that.
I don't know the context of it, so I have
to see. But you know, like, if that's really what
you're up said about, you know, you know we could
talk about it. You can send me an email. We

(27:03):
can kind of correct that. But uh, you know, you
definitely said NASA lied. I mean, at least that part
is true. I guess, you know. But but the AI
part is that that's kind of what you're mad about.

Speaker 7 (27:12):
Yeah, yeah, yes, so I am. Okay, I know I
stand by my my belief at anas the lide, but okay, anything.

Speaker 1 (27:19):
Okay, this could have been an email, you know, Daniel,
We we gotta figure it out. You got to call
me out live on the show saying my titles are wrong. Okay,
I don't know, man, I mean maybe again, I'll have
to look at it, you know, but yeah, this this
show is made by a bunch of different people. It's
not just me. So so you know what, I'll put
a pin in it and we can figure it out.
But I can't do that live while I'm on the air.

(27:40):
I'm not gonna go here asking the crew being like,
hey do you put this title up? You know, what
do you want me to do about it? Right now?

Speaker 3 (27:46):
You know?

Speaker 7 (27:47):
Yeah, I'm not expecting to change the title right now.
I'm just okay, just saying that when I see titles
like that and the previous and even the previous week
another segment when I called in about Armstrong's saying about
the truth Protective Layers, right, remember we talked about that
that segment had the screen the thumbnail had a picture

(28:10):
of Kelly give me two thumbs down with the sour
look on his face. And I'm wondering, what the fuck
did I say that was so horrible? That prompt about
that type of look.

Speaker 1 (28:19):
I mean, you guys, well you said that NASA line
and that there's actually aliens on Mars, Like, I don't know,
I don't think he was happy about that. I think
he thought that was byes, you know, But Daniel, is
that why you want to call me about our editorial
decisions on how we do our thumbnails and titles on YouTube?

Speaker 8 (28:37):
Okay?

Speaker 1 (28:37):
Well, I mean come on, man.

Speaker 7 (28:40):
Yeah, I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 (28:43):
Okay, well, look all right again, you know what, I'll
talk with the crew about it later. I'll talk with
the crew about it, and we'll see that our titles
are accurate. I definitely don't want to have inaccurate titles, right,
definitely don't want to do that. And you know, like
YouTube and and Thinker could probably say the same thing, right,
and TikTok's the same way. Who hosts off TikTok to
you know, like you don't have to be a little
bit sallacious, But I know I don't want to be untrue.

(29:05):
I definitely don't want to be untrue in anything I say. Right,
So so you know, well I'll talk to them about
it and we'll see what we can do. Okay. I
don't want to make you feel uncomfortable for for for
you know, to call in anymore. Right, How does that sound?
Can I do that for you, Daniel?

Speaker 7 (29:20):
Yeah? But okay, clear that the called screeners, the cold
screeners always make it clear that if you go on air,
they may make a segment about it. So they always
make that clear. Yeah, I'm not faulting you guys, like
it's your show and I realized the risk. But like
I said, I just don't like it. I just I
don't know the AI think is what bother is because
I never said, all.

Speaker 1 (29:40):
Right, tell you what you know, we'll look into it.
We'll look into it and we'll try to figure it out. Okay,
all right, I don't know what you're trying to do.
Call me out live, I blast, but you know what,
I respect it. I respect it. So I'll give you
that one, Daniel. I don't know. I don't know what
to tell you on that. Can we have a different
conversation that we can bring the thinker into it, because
right now this is this is a you know, you

(30:02):
got beef with me right now and think it doesn't
have anything to say on the conversation.

Speaker 7 (30:06):
Oh yeah, yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (30:07):
I mean.

Speaker 7 (30:10):
UFO related. There's been some interesting stories. One was a
like a astronomer from Norway or something who looked at
all these plates from photographic plates from like the astronomers
from these astronomers from the nineteen fifties.

Speaker 1 (30:29):
Okay, how about this. Can we run it back a
bit because let's talk about the face on Mars just briefly,
because that's what we were talking about last time. I
still want to understand your take on the situation. So
you think that there were aliens that lived on Mars
and built a human like face structure at some point,
But now the human or the aliens maybe still live there,

(30:50):
but we don't have good pictures of them, or they
live underground. Like what what is the narrative? Because that's
that really troubles me the most. I think is so
from what I understand, it's just a rock out in
space with no life on it whatsoever. But you you
have a different idea of what's going on. Can you
explain that to me.

Speaker 7 (31:08):
Okay, Okay, Well, like I sent you some of the
I think that the face on Mars is the tip
of the iceberg of the anomalies that are being seen. Okay,
when when you really look at NASA photograss and you
and you take away that orange pink color, that that
filter that they put everything through, and I think what
I think that what that face on Mars shows is

(31:29):
that there was I think there were two civilizations. I
think there was a I think it was like, uh,
like a humanoid race and uh, and there's also a
civilization of little being. I think they lived. I think
they lived together. I think they was side by side.

Speaker 1 (31:41):
Oh okay, so there's two races on Mars that lives
side by side. They got you got human ones and
smurfs or not anymore.

Speaker 7 (31:49):
Okay, it was some A couple of weeks ago, someone
called about that this thing about there was a nuclear
war on Mars, about the isotope rate or something about Mars.
And that's what I think. I do not I'm not
saying nuclear war, but I think something happened. I think
it was a civilization. I think it got wiped out.
And what remains are these little fellas. I think they
survived it.

Speaker 1 (32:09):
Why do you think little people? What what is the
rationale for I get like an ancient civilization, they're gone
to the nuclear war like that. That tracks? But what
why is there another one? Why do we think that's
going on?

Speaker 7 (32:20):
Because I think they live underground?

Speaker 1 (32:22):
Oh then why well why how do.

Speaker 2 (32:25):
We know that?

Speaker 7 (32:26):
Because I sent you a couple of pictures that shows
what looks like little beings and they're like seemed to
be taking on the surface and they're right and the
two of them they're near you see like holes near
them that looks like where they could be coming from.
And that's what I think. That's what I think. It
looks like.

Speaker 1 (32:41):
I think there's just talk a lot here. Thinker, go ahead.

Speaker 2 (32:44):
I just want to know. Like the picture that says
there's a bear's face on Mars that orbatur capped at
the bears fights, is that? Do you think bears look
like that? Like, you're not you don't look at these
pictures and see what's that illness that people have when
they see a face and everything?

Speaker 3 (33:03):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (33:03):
Yeah, you don't think that this is possibly what's happening
when you look at these pictures.

Speaker 7 (33:08):
Normally don't because if you look at the original two picture,
and that's the point of this book. I mean, you
can look at online by the way, this book.

Speaker 1 (33:16):
But yeah, I see it on Amazon, The Martian. Nice,
Yeah it is, I see fifty five.

Speaker 2 (33:22):
I guess that the book was full of shit for
it to be well.

Speaker 1 (33:26):
I mean, I'm just I'm spitballing here. I think it's
full of shit because, like, you know, it sounds like
it's full of shit. I haven't read it, but uh,
it is a real book. The Martian Enigmas The Face,
Pyramids and other Unusual Objects on Mars by Mark J. Carlado,
written in October of nineteen ninety seven. So and he,

(33:48):
if this Amazon article is correct about him, he does
have a PhD in electrical engineering, which is cool. It's
not astronomy.

Speaker 2 (33:57):
But you know, I'm just sort of like, have you
looked looked up the picture of the bear's face on Mars?
Like this looks like a bear you would see Saturday
Morning cartoon?

Speaker 1 (34:10):
Oh my god, you're right, yeah, crew, can we get
can we get that pictures? Can we put that on screen?
Because you're right, that does that does look funny. But yeah,
like like you're saying, I agree with you. Thinker. It's
like we can get funny pictures of Mars and probably
find all kinds of weird shapes and objects. Right, I
don't see why the Sidonia picture, the one that looks
like a human face, will be any different from that.

Speaker 3 (34:32):
Yeah, yeah, well.

Speaker 7 (34:33):
Look at that. Look at that you can get you
can see. Uh. Segments of the book are shown in
the I'm not sure if it's Amazon.

Speaker 9 (34:39):
I sound I found.

Speaker 3 (34:41):
I looked up.

Speaker 7 (34:42):
Colado and I found some other another book that he's
He's even got stuff on that new picture that was
just got analysis of that. He still thinks it's a face,
and I, like I said, I think NASA's the issue is,
like you keep asking me, why would NASA lie about it?

Speaker 2 (34:56):
I mean that literally, you just wear my mind.

Speaker 7 (34:58):
Why because it would be as a term of paradigm
shift and our civilization if we found out if that
was the face, Because that would mean that there's a
humanoid There was a humanoid brace on that planet at
some point I don't know when, but.

Speaker 2 (35:13):
Why But why lie about it? Like what do you
mean it would be apparentship?

Speaker 7 (35:16):
Like?

Speaker 2 (35:16):
Why lie about it?

Speaker 7 (35:18):
Because it's connected? I think it would be connected to
the whole uf u UFO issue and the issue of
whether aliens are behind it, and the whole military military
industrial complex. So you know that that's a that's a
very tricky thing. Like Dan, you've invented this that the military,
you want to keep things like this secret if it
meant you know, a vast change and technology that could

(35:41):
mean super weapons, yes, that we've never seen before.

Speaker 1 (35:44):
Right, this is yes. And you're referring to this position.
And I've said this before many times on the show,
but I will lose to date again for those who've
never heard this. I for the conspiracy types, this is
the one point I always give them, right, which is
why would our government lie about aliens? I actually think
there's there could be reasons why. There could be international reasons,

(36:04):
like international security reasons. Why right, if you have contact
with an interstellar being, right, you want to be the
first to contact them so they help the US and
not the Rooskies. Right, Okay, So that's a reason. I
think that makes sense. And also you're right, it is
a paradigm shifting thing that would affect the public would
go nuts if there's like, hey, there's grays out there,
and stuff. Right, So yeah, I could see because like

(36:26):
other governments lie all the time, I don't see, and
the US says about some things. I could see that
as a point. But that by itself is not enough, right.
There has to be more than just well they could.

Speaker 2 (36:35):
Right when I'm not saying, like, I understand why they
would lie about if they were saying that they exist,
they're alive. But if they're seeing some head bared in
the ground that's dead on Mars, Like why lie about that?
Like it's not it's not like they're saying that they're
talking to it and that it's like flying over us
in a UFO, Right, Like why lie about saying, Oh,

(36:55):
there used to be life on Mars, but no, it
died out.

Speaker 1 (36:58):
That's that's a great point. Thinker has a great point.
Why would if it's used to be life on Mars?
But I guess in your view there's still is life.
They're just little tiny beings for some reason.

Speaker 9 (37:08):
And I think that's just.

Speaker 7 (37:09):
One again, Dan, again, Dan, I just think it's one
aspect of it. You follogy is the whole. You know,
there's there's the sightings, there's there's abductions, there's crop circles
is the cattle.

Speaker 1 (37:21):
But there's a whole that's way different. That's way different.
That's I mean, you have to say that the little
people on Mars also have UFOs and are coming to
Earth and doing all that stuff like that. We got
to take it one claim aount of time here, you know,
like if those are the same beings or different beings,
I don't know, but like you know, I'm.

Speaker 7 (37:37):
Just saying, if they have to admit one thing, I
think they'd have to admit other things that they don't
want to admit. And maybe I even gave you the
I gave you the Brookings Institute report from the nineteen
sixties done before the before the Space program, as the
Space program was launched, where they where they talked about
what would be the impact if if we found alien
life on the moon.

Speaker 3 (37:57):
Yeah, and they said that.

Speaker 1 (37:59):
Yeah again, Okay again, I'm not debating with you whether
or not there would be good reason to lie. Okay,
that's because that's not my issue. My issue is how
do we know that they are lying? That's the difference, right,
Like I I don't understand the narrative of oh NASA
had a photo of Mars's face that they didn't mean

(38:19):
to release, but they did on accident, which I think
is what you were saying, And then now they have
to cover it up and pretend like, oh, it wasn't
actually a face, it's actually just paradolia, right, Like that's
that's the narrative that you said, is what's happened? Right?
That doesn't make sense to me? Why why would even
be you know, like it's because like I imagine, on
a planet like Mars, there's gonna be stuff that looks

(38:41):
like other things. Like think are already pointing this out.
There's a face of a bear that's on Mars, So
like why would it not be reasonable that it's it's
just another thing that looks like a thing on Mars.
There we go, We got the bear picture of me.
Look at that. That's a goofy looking bear. That's like,
you're right, this is a Saturday Morning cartoon assd bear.

Speaker 2 (39:00):
Yeah right there.

Speaker 1 (39:02):
Yeah, But like I just you know, we it's a
probability thing, What is it? What's the likelihood of this
is just a thing that looks like a thing rather
than oh, this is actually a bigger cover up, right,
Like I would need more to the cover up thing
than just the story of a picture.

Speaker 2 (39:19):
Right before you ask a quick question?

Speaker 1 (39:22):
Go ahead, thinker, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (39:23):
Like, are you saying that NASA has already made contact
with these beings on another planet and that's what they're
covering up? Is that what you're saying?

Speaker 7 (39:31):
No?

Speaker 1 (39:32):
No, okay, okay, they just they just saw it, but
they're not doing anything about it. Like what's the idea.

Speaker 7 (39:38):
I don't know, I would know, I would not know.

Speaker 1 (39:40):
Well, you apparently know they're hiding ship. You don't know
that they make contact with them? Okay, Well, it's just
a little confusing because like we've sent stuff to Mars, right,
like we got a rover and ship. I saw the
Martian you know, we sent we like we've had, we've
said stuff over there, so like presumably they would have

(40:02):
made contact, right, Yeah, I guess which was yeah, you
know what, you know what somebody I never told you
something never came.

Speaker 7 (40:14):
Also a picture, but one of these little fellows and
they seem to be dead inside the wheel hub of
the rover, like like maybe the rover ran all.

Speaker 1 (40:21):
Right, they ran? My god, Yeah, why didn't you send
me that picture? I want to see that?

Speaker 5 (40:29):
Yeah, find it.

Speaker 7 (40:31):
It's very sad, I think it's very sad if that's true.

Speaker 1 (40:34):
If I'm right, those rovers are not moving that fast,
how did they run them over?

Speaker 7 (40:39):
Maybe the guy. Maybe the guy just came up on
it and he tried to check it out. And you know,
imagine if you were a little fella and you see
this big fucking robot coming down your uh, you know,
maybe you want to go and I don't know, check
it up.

Speaker 1 (40:52):
You're saying he's like a squirrel that ran across the road,
like it's just a roadkill situation. I don't know if
I buy that, man, that's.

Speaker 7 (40:59):
Sort of sort No.

Speaker 10 (41:00):
I think I think the thing.

Speaker 7 (41:01):
I think the little guy tried to probably try to,
you know, check it out or something.

Speaker 2 (41:05):
And you know, oh, Daniel, I'm looking for this picture.
It is the picture on glue.

Speaker 7 (41:10):
Yeah, I mean, I mean again again, I just think
it's a big issue. I think there's all you know,
right now, you have all these hearings going on in
Washington and all this ship right.

Speaker 1 (41:19):
Yeah, but that's with the UFOs and stuff. That's not
with Mars. You know, that's different.

Speaker 7 (41:24):
Well, again, I think it ultimately it is connected to Mars.
I think I think it's all connects in the law
in the big picture.

Speaker 1 (41:31):
I guess I don't know. I don't know what else
to say or add to this thing, or what do you.

Speaker 2 (41:35):
Think I'm trying to find out. I want to see
the picture of the rover running over the Smurf.

Speaker 1 (41:41):
I want to I want to see Papa Smurf stuck
up in the wheel.

Speaker 2 (41:44):
I see a picture where there's blue dust on Mars,
and I'm wondering if that was.

Speaker 1 (41:49):
The blue dust? That's what?

Speaker 2 (41:53):
Yeah, like I'm seeing that picture, is it?

Speaker 1 (41:55):
Yeah? Yeah, I don't know, Daniel, I don't I don't
think there's little people on Mars. I don't think like
there we go. Crew made an edit of our little
bear picture. That's great, that's good. Yeah. Those of you listening,
uh don't have access to video. The crew has made
a picture taken the screenshot of Mars of the bear
picture and have added a bow tie in some ears

(42:15):
and it looked good.

Speaker 3 (42:16):
I like it.

Speaker 7 (42:17):
Kelly, make fun of me. You guys always ridiculed me.

Speaker 1 (42:21):
You guys always you don't have to call into the show, right,
I mean, like you're bringing your ideas to the table
and look, while be honest, I'm I am nicer to
you than other people who have been on the show, right,
because in most contexts, Yeah, your ideas seem a little ridiculous.
It's a little silly, I think, and I think you
have to accept that reality a little bit.

Speaker 7 (42:41):
Well, I do, I do. I mean, I wish you
guys could be credit at least I'm calling av.

Speaker 1 (42:45):
Yeah, I respect the fact that you're I respect the
fact that you're you're bringing your ideas to the table,
and you have to respect that. I think that they're silly.
I'm not gonna say tell you, oh, well, we're just
going to think that this is okay, because it's not
like it's not real, right, I don't think it's real.
I'm i gonna be like, oh well, maybe this could
be a possibility. I don't think that will be honest
of me.

Speaker 7 (43:04):
Right, No, I agree, I agree, But but I'm okay.
But I'm being honest too, I'm just trying to be honest.

Speaker 1 (43:09):
Okay, So why do you have a problem with me
saying this is ridiculous. If that's how I honestly feel
about it.

Speaker 7 (43:14):
I don't have any problem. But just sometimes you make images,
you kind of make fun of me, You put us
some goofy alien image or stuff like that. You know, Oh, you're.

Speaker 1 (43:23):
Talking about little aliens that are getting run over by rovers.
What do you want me to say? Like, I don't know.
You want me to mean nicer to you about it?
Like I can, but what do you mean? That's what
I don't know. I'm not gonna argue with you about it.
You already put me on Live like you put me
on Blast at the beginning of this show, and like
I'm not gonna sit here and and and coddle you

(43:44):
with it. Man, It's like it's it's silly stuff. It's silly.
It's not you know, it's hard for me to take seriously.
I guess like if this was real, we need to
have better evidence than just here's a picture I found
on the internet one time of a thing that got
looks like that stuck in a rover, Like I just,
you know, I need more than that, right Like like okay,

(44:04):
Like I don't know I was about to make in
comparison that I don't think it would be appropriate for
the show, but whatever, I don't know. We have other
callers that want to talk to us. Is there anything
else you want to say before we let you go no, I.

Speaker 7 (44:14):
Just said I said to images before. I kind of
I kind of hope was instead of just looking at
it for two seconds and making a judgment, I kind
of hope that you, kind of on your own time,
take a look at the picture closely, and you know,
give it a few, like ten minutes of your life.
I know you're busy, you got you got a life.
You've got a wife now, and good luck to your marriage,

(44:34):
and thank you. You know, I just hope you can
take a few seconds, just a few minutes of your
life to really examine these pictures, because I'm not just
making this up. I'm not just not just seeing things.
There are other people who agree. There are other people
agree with me, of course, but I expect the skepticism
from you guys. I mean I'm calling the atheist community
of Austin, right, I mean that's what I expect. I mean, yeah,

(44:56):
I you invite this topic, and.

Speaker 1 (45:00):
Yeah, and look, okay, if you send those pictures of
the smurf thing, I'm sorry, I'm calling it the smurf thing.
If that's disrespectful, I don't know why you feel like
it's disrespectful. You don't know these aliens, but you know
if if you send in pictures of the little people
getting if you send in pictures of the little people.
I don't want to say little people either, because they're
not people. I guess they're aliens. But if you send
pictures of the little aliens being run over by the rover,

(45:22):
we'll look at it on the show. Okay, we'll look
at it on the show. I'll do that. Okay, But
you haven't sent pictures in a long time. It's been like,
I don't know how many months, but it's been a
long time since you sent in pictures, so I haven't
had much to look at. Okay, sound good? All right,
all right, Daniel, I'm gonna let you go. Thanks for
calling in, and I hope you have a great rest
of your weekend. Wow, what a call. What do you

(45:45):
think about this?

Speaker 3 (45:46):
Because I think.

Speaker 2 (45:47):
You the bear next time instead of when you do
the when you clip the segment and you post it,
I think the bear.

Speaker 1 (45:58):
Should be in the thumbnail. Yeah, one hundred percent. And
then you know, I'll be even funnier is if we said, like,
uh man, believe a I told them like we just lie.
That would be really funny. Yeah, Like, okay, if if
our titles are inaccurate and are not exact quotes. That

(46:20):
is a problem, you know, and I'll look into that. Sorry,
Like I don't title every single thing, right, it goes
to our crew and stuff, and we have a process,
so I you know, I can talk to the crew
about that, But like, you can't complain about us saying
the idea is are ridiculous, Like I just don't I
don't agree with that any backpedal in that a little bit.
But it's like you're the one bringing it here to
us to talk about, right, Like if you want, I'm

(46:42):
not gonna call to you and say, oh, yeah, this
is perfectly fine, except I'll explore it with you. But like,
we got to make a judgment call at the end
of the day, and from what I've heard and seeing,
I'm not impressive of what's been brought to the table.
I mean, do you agree with that? Do you think
I should be nicer to this or what do you think?

Speaker 3 (46:58):
No?

Speaker 2 (47:00):
Like he literally said that when he calls in, he
knows what to expect, right, So he's just complaining.

Speaker 1 (47:07):
Yeah, I think so too.

Speaker 2 (47:08):
We were talking about at the beginning, we can't.

Speaker 1 (47:10):
You know, Yeah, we like you said, our call screeners.
Let people know, Hey, this show is live and it
is recorded, and we do it like this is the
most ethical we try to make a call in show,
like seriously, like you know, there's people that do it
way worse than us. I'll tell you that. But you know,
I don't know. I don't know, man, I want to
see the Smurfs on Mars though. I'll tell you that
at it too.

Speaker 2 (47:30):
If he said it to he's in it to me.
I wanted to.

Speaker 1 (47:36):
The subject subject Smurfs on Mars JPEG. That'd be awesome.
But no, last time and you missed this. But like
last time he sent stuff, we did look at the
images and it just looked like a bunch of rocks
like on Mars, like taking from the Viking rover or whatever.
And he was like, no, you got to look at
it with a magnifying glass, like he literally said, we

(47:57):
got to look at the pixels and it's just like
what am I supped? Tell you? It doesn't look like
an alien looks like you know, So I don't know.

Speaker 2 (48:04):
Maybe Mars rocks are alien.

Speaker 1 (48:06):
Yeah, maybe the rock rock goldums Yeah yeah, okay, that's
a new angle. I could work with that. So I see,
we got some other folks want to talk to us.
Before we do that, I want to make a brief
announcement that we are doing our lot of shows at
the Free Thought Library on Sundays in Austin every week.

(48:26):
If you go to the Atheist Meed of Austin building
and you want to hang out with other fans, you
can check it out doors open at eleven and it
is completely free for anybody to show up. So if
you're in the Austinary, check that out. Another way to
support us is by sending super chats and we will
read them on the show live, of course, as long
as they are YouTube appropriate. And if you're also in
the Austinary, we have a meetup to keep up with
community events. You can go high you out cc slash

(48:48):
ACA meet up for that. And last, but not least,
I have to thank the awesome, amazing crew that helped
make this show happen. Let's get a crew camp up.
Lots of folks that helped make this show happen as
you can see. So, I guess I'm going to have
to owe some more people. Hello, we got Vern joining
us here. What's that Vern? So I guess I gotta
talk to you guys. Are you guys making fake We

(49:10):
got to review our crypt policy because you know I
don't like that. But anyway, with that out of the way,
think let's take our next call. You're ready to talk
to more people?

Speaker 3 (49:19):
I am.

Speaker 2 (49:19):
I just want to say that I've been over here
thinking and I'm thinking about the rock bands on Mars.

Speaker 3 (49:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (49:25):
Yes, and then that you know the scripture in the
Bible that says if nobody praises him, if humans won't
praise him, the rocks will. He was talking about the
rock beings on Mars.

Speaker 1 (49:36):
We know are a Jewish Jewish monster. It's a Jewish
ideas are No, that's why heights. You've heard that that's
a Jewish word Jewish. So the Jewish mythsicism and like
like Jewish myths are are really interesting. There's like a
lot of monsters and stuff in like old Jewish idea

(49:57):
because like you know, it's one of those things where
it's was like a more ancient religion before it became
the religion to this today. We were talking about this
earlier where it's like there's like a sort of a
polytheism element to it, and so there's a lot of
like mythological creatures that kind of come into there too.
It's kind of kind of interesting. But yeah, golams are
a Jewish folklore man. Yeah, more more, the more you know,

(50:17):
the more you know. So that's the kind of cript
that I want to see. I want to see more
golum sightings. You never see that these days. Well, let's
get to our nice caller. We have Michelle who wants
to talk to us about Noah's flood. Michelle from New York.
You are live on truth, wanted. What's going on?

Speaker 5 (50:34):
Not much?

Speaker 10 (50:35):
How you doing, Dan and thinker doing great?

Speaker 1 (50:39):
Doing great? Tell us tell us what you want to
talk about today?

Speaker 10 (50:42):
Uh, what do you what's your take on the Yeah,
it's just like how I want to I'm trying to
phrase it like the way I had it before. Uh
what would I what would you say if I said
the Bible? And I'm going to tie this into Noah's
squad here. But the Bible is a sort of scientific,
sometimes historical, actual book. Not all the time. I think

(51:04):
it definitely gets some stuff wrong, but maybe and these
are ancient things in ancient times, and it's hard for
us to get respective on the past as well. The
Library of Alexandretta or Alexandria was burned down, so we
lost all that knowledge. And maybe at one time the
world and all its peoples or some of its peoples

(51:25):
knew that this whole earth one time was covered in water.
Because I was up hiking the Catskill Mountain trail, and
you can check that out and see how far above
sea level it is. But uh, I came across a seashell,
a seashell, a saltwater seashell. And I further further into
the woods, I came across a giant mountain of coral.

Speaker 5 (51:48):
I know.

Speaker 10 (51:48):
I'm a rock count. I know coral when I see it.

Speaker 1 (51:50):
Yes, yes, so listen. First of all, I can't verify
if coral specifically in the Catskill Mountains. What I do
know is that we've found whalebones at the time off
of Mount Everest, right, and creationists look at that and say, wow,
doesn't that mean that the Earth flooded? So hawon else
the whales get there? No, it's because the Earth is
The Earth is billions of years old, and it's gone

(52:11):
through lots of geological changes, right, So at some point
the Himalayas were underwater, right, So it doesn't surprise me
that you would find fossils of marine life or whatever
like in the Catskills that has nothing to do with
the earth flooding six thousand years ago, because that is
what the Bible says happened, right, which which is just
actually not true. You asked me what my reaction is
if the Bible is a historical or scientific book. It's

(52:33):
absolutely not. It is is folklore and religious propaganda at best.
I don't maybe some historical stuff, but.

Speaker 10 (52:40):
I agree with you.

Speaker 1 (52:41):
Okay, I agree.

Speaker 10 (52:42):
With you, Dan, Okay, folklore and it's religious mumbo jumbo.
I agree, yeah, but okay, book that has some le Okay.
So what if one day they proved that the and
I was talking that Jonathan, this the call screener who
gave me a great little He talked me up, gave
me a great combo. He's a great guy. I'm getting
a race anyway.

Speaker 1 (53:01):
Uh, you're a voluntary organization.

Speaker 10 (53:03):
But yes, go ahead, yeah I know.

Speaker 3 (53:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (53:08):
Uh.

Speaker 10 (53:08):
He told me that actually they discovered the hearing is
that the glow the earth was actually once covered in snow.
And what if somehow this noose story was in in
the Bible in that time was a way of saying
our ancestors knew and passed on to through several in
a race, orally that the Noahs there, that the whole

(53:31):
earth was covered in water or life. It started.

Speaker 1 (53:34):
Okay, let me get my response, and then I want
thinker to talk because I don't want to be talking
this whole time. Okay. A lot of people have this idea,
what if the Bible gives this, what if it's actually
a broader message? And I love this because it's this
is only I think it almost exclusively said by people
who don't read the Bible or like don't haven't read
this story, because this story is like very explicit in
what happens, like the god of the universe or in

(53:57):
Ghahweh is talking to a man and his family and
saying this, these people are sinful and we're going to
kill them, and we're gonna put all the animals in
a boat, and it's going to rain for forty days
and then like your your people are going to like
populate the earth and stuff like it's it's very explicit
in its details, and people are like, no, but it's
actually like a metaphor for this, like none of that

(54:20):
has anything to do with like the Earth being covered
in snow or like long term geologic time periods. And
you want to know how I know that, it's because
Christians have never interpreted that way until science has given
us those answers, right, and then we retrofit scientific you know,
discoveries into what Christianity says. It's like, oh, maybe it
was talking about that. Well, if it was talking about that,
then Christians would have been saying that, but they never

(54:42):
said that until science came along and validated these ideas. Right,
So I don't know, I kind of reject that interpretation,
But think, what do you what do you think about this?

Speaker 2 (54:52):
I think even just considering a worldwide flood as scientifically
accurate is ridiculous. Like have you thought about the fact
that the Bible says that the water went twenty seven
feet or twenty seven cubes higher than the tallest mountain,
So that would be like almost three thousand miles above
the highest mountain?

Speaker 1 (55:12):
Yeah? Yeah, yeah, it's like me think, yeah, it gives
it gives specific measurements, like it gives like cubits or
whatever on how high things were.

Speaker 2 (55:22):
You know, it says twenty I think it says twenty
seven cubits about that's like three thousand miles above the
highest mountains, how high the water?

Speaker 10 (55:31):
I don't I reject.

Speaker 7 (55:32):
I reject most of Noah's story.

Speaker 1 (55:34):
I reject much.

Speaker 3 (55:35):
All of it.

Speaker 1 (55:36):
No, it's okay, you rejected.

Speaker 5 (55:38):
Don't reject.

Speaker 10 (55:39):
The only part I don't reject is that one point
in time in the Earth's development as an oblique spheroid,
the entire land mass that we know to be this
sphere globe thing that we call the planet Earth was
covered in water.

Speaker 1 (55:54):
I'm not even sure if that's if that's not even true.
I don't even know if all the Earth was underwater.
I don't know if that's I mean, I could be
wrong about that. I'm not an expert. But like, let's
say that that's true. Right, Like, that's again, that's not
what the Bible says happened. The Bible said it rained
and then it rains for forty days. Again, Like it's
very explicit in its details. Like we can't just like retrofit. Oh,

(56:15):
maybe it's talking about this broad geological shift that happened
over thousands of years. Like it's not what it's saying though, right,
we're talking about different ideas.

Speaker 5 (56:24):
Daniel Dan, I'm sorry, huh do you think that?

Speaker 10 (56:27):
I've always like when I was in school, I taught
I heard it thought that it was like believe that
there was an asteroid that hit the Earth and that's
why all the dinosaurs died. But what if it was
an asteroid storm and it caused kay wait for all
the continent.

Speaker 1 (56:43):
But if the smurf people on Mars sent to asteroids
and desfort of everything, I don't know what what? What
are we going with here?

Speaker 10 (56:50):
What if?

Speaker 5 (56:52):
Well?

Speaker 10 (56:52):
Because in the beginning of Genesis, in the first chat,
first words were the earth the transit shirt direct translation
is and the Earth became without form and boyds and
a lot of people, a lot of some scholars in
the Christian realm believe in the Preadamic earth and creation
where all the dinosaurs arem.

Speaker 1 (57:14):
Okay, you lost me because like we're what we're talking
about something else now?

Speaker 2 (57:18):
Yeah, Like I think he's trying to say that this
basically that the story of Noah is going back billions,
millions of years and not just the six thousand years?

Speaker 3 (57:29):
Is that?

Speaker 2 (57:30):
Is that what you're saying?

Speaker 1 (57:31):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (57:31):
Like, but why like why are we talking about this?

Speaker 10 (57:35):
Because it connects We're talking about this because I was
saying that maybe there it wasn't just one assort that
that distinguished the dinosaurs, but it was maybe a whole
meteor shower, and uh, and then that's caused the whole
earth to become covered in water.

Speaker 1 (57:51):
Do you have any evidence to back that up? Besides
maybe it could be pat Like, are scientists saying that?
Do people who study this say that.

Speaker 10 (58:00):
A giant I found a giant coral where.

Speaker 1 (58:03):
It shouldn't be, said you found a giant Well, he said,
he found some coral where it shouldn't be. So therefore,
therefore a meteor storm happened across the earth. I'm not
sure if I'm making that connection.

Speaker 10 (58:15):
Therefore Earth covered in water entirely.

Speaker 1 (58:19):
I don't think that's how that works. I don't think
it just because you found a piece of coral in
one place that means that the entire earth was covered
in water.

Speaker 10 (58:26):
It wasn't a piece, it was all literal giant Like, I.

Speaker 1 (58:29):
Don't even care there was a giant thing. That's not
how that works. You don't point to uh. If I
just like I don't know, found a piece of limestone,
I don't get to say, wow, there must have been
limestone all over the earth because I found it in
this one place. Do you think that's good science? Michelle?

Speaker 10 (58:45):
Then guess what, Dad, There is limestone all over the earth.

Speaker 1 (58:50):
Well, there is limestone because a lot of the Earth
was underwater. That's true, right, But I'm saying, like, you know,
that doesn't mean it's over the entire earth, right, That's
that's a very different thing. How do you know that,
Dan h do you know that? What do you mean?

Speaker 10 (59:07):
I will work I will work you into admitting that
you were an agnostic on this subject.

Speaker 1 (59:14):
No, I'm I'm I'm pretty fucking I don't know.

Speaker 2 (59:16):
I think go ahead, what like what does this like?
What are you trying to prove with this story? Like
if you reject the rest of the theological aspects of
the Noah story, Like, what's the point Let's say a tsunami,
you know, like a asteroid did hit and the arts
was underwater? Okay, now what Yeah, what's the point?

Speaker 10 (59:36):
We would just know more about our earth development?

Speaker 3 (59:39):
That's all okay? But like, but like you don't think,
like figure this out?

Speaker 1 (59:43):
But so, Michelle, I'm confused on your position because like
you obviously viewed the Bible as some sort of vessel
for truth. It's at least telling you some true things,
like maybe metaphorically, but you don't believe in God? Maybe?

Speaker 7 (59:56):
Right?

Speaker 1 (59:57):
Or do you believe in God?

Speaker 5 (59:58):
Like?

Speaker 1 (59:58):
How does this relate to?

Speaker 5 (59:59):
Like?

Speaker 1 (59:59):
Why should I care about what the Bible says? Period?

Speaker 3 (01:00:02):
Right?

Speaker 10 (01:00:04):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (01:00:04):
Right?

Speaker 10 (01:00:05):
I agree. I don't think the Bible has much to say.
I mean, it's got some good poetry in it.

Speaker 1 (01:00:10):
Well, then why are we talking about what the Bible says? Michelle?

Speaker 2 (01:00:13):
And who would have told them about this flood?

Speaker 10 (01:00:16):
It's one of my God did one of my points.
One of my points was maybe the Hebrews said their
God was responsible for the whole earth being covered with water?

Speaker 1 (01:00:26):
Okay, Okay, so you're saying, you're saying this event happened,
and the ancient hebrew people somehow knew about this and
interpreted as like God, and so they wrote a whole story.
That's that's what you're saying.

Speaker 2 (01:00:38):
Yeah, how did they know about it?

Speaker 1 (01:00:40):
Yeah? Because presumably this would have been more than the
time period in which the Jewish people have existed, right,
Like modern civilization isn't, as far as we know, too
much older than about ten thousand years or so. And
We're talking about events that would have been millions of
years right before humans. So how do we square that hole?

Speaker 5 (01:00:55):
We?

Speaker 1 (01:00:55):
How do we how do we do that?

Speaker 10 (01:00:57):
Maybe because the ancient Jews and the ancient peoples of
the world would go to places and they'd find things.
They would find in the ocean, and they thought, maybe
the whole is discovered with water.

Speaker 1 (01:01:09):
Okay, well that's an interesting idea, you know, I could
actually I could vibe with you there, right, Okay, Hey,
they found some limestone somewhere and they're like, huh, limestone,
we usually find this underwater. Maybe this was underwater. Maybe
the whole world was underwater. Okay, that could be an idea,
But that's just somebody telling stories about the rocks that
they see, right, That doesn't mean that it's true.

Speaker 5 (01:01:30):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:01:30):
That's him to the store by himself, because that's what
he did. Like he's literally just putting himself in that
position and saying the angel.

Speaker 1 (01:01:39):
You are right, yeah about the coral. Yeah, that's true.

Speaker 2 (01:01:42):
What we realized that you were saying that maybe maybe
they did what I did. And so yeah, coral and
there was water everywhere. That doesn't make any.

Speaker 1 (01:01:51):
Sense, yeah, right, Okay, So what are we doing here, Michelle?
What's going on?

Speaker 3 (01:01:56):
Like?

Speaker 1 (01:01:56):
You know, some people told the story about some rocks
they saw and they wrote it down and that thing
became the Bible, or at least part of the Bible.
Is that? Is that the conclusion that we're coming to
or I don't.

Speaker 10 (01:02:06):
Know what conclusion we should come to, Daniel, Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:02:10):
Why do you need to believe that there was a
worldwide flood? This is what I'm trying to figure out, Like,
if you don't believe in God.

Speaker 10 (01:02:17):
I don't believe in.

Speaker 2 (01:02:20):
Ho hold on, hold on for a second.

Speaker 10 (01:02:22):
Let me get my flood?

Speaker 2 (01:02:24):
Can I ask my question? What I Okay, I'm trying
to figure out why, Like why is it so important
to you that there was a worldwide flood? Like if
you don't believe in God, right, science is not backing
up that there was a worldwide flood right a time.

Speaker 1 (01:02:43):
When humans would have been around to see it?

Speaker 2 (01:02:45):
Yeah right? Yeah? So like why do you need this
to be true? This is what I don't understand for you.

Speaker 10 (01:02:51):
Okay, I will share that with you very personal and
something that's close to my heart. Have you has the
both of you seen a beautiful mind with uh Russell
Crowe portraying John Nash.

Speaker 1 (01:03:03):
Yes, I have have you seen.

Speaker 10 (01:03:06):
And you haven't seen that movie? Thinker, I don't watch
share a little bit. Well, I'll just stare a little
bit of that. When Jonathan Nash was sitting and drinking
liquor or whiskey Scots with his uh, his friend Henry,
he said he was talking and he said, I have
to see through to the governing dynamics. I have to

(01:03:26):
come up with my original theory because that's what that's
the only way, that's the only way I'll ever truly matter.
And for me, I want to come up with more
than one thing that will cause people to remember me
after I'm gone. And I know that's all vanity.

Speaker 1 (01:03:43):
Well, you know there are ways to do that. There
are ways to do that, you know. I I don't
think it's it's a thing to be ashamed of to
say I want to matter, right, But I do think
we need to think about how we can do that
right Because the people who do come up with the
scientific facts that we know and understand today, they worked
very hard to come up with those facts, right. They

(01:04:05):
didn't go on a hike and say wow, here's piece coral.
This must have been what happened, Right, That had to
be a lot of research, you know, sometimes get on
the hands and knees and digging, sometimes living under a microscope,
write a lot of papers, peer review, right, All those
people had to work towards that. So I think, if
you want to do that, and if that's really what
it comes down to, there are avenues to do that,
right if you get the proper education to do it,

(01:04:26):
you work in the proper fields. You didn't even have
the right education. I guarantee you. I guarantee you, Michelle
that there are places in your area that could use
your help as a research assistant even without the education, right,
and could probably train you to do that if you
want to do that, you know, But I don't think
this is the way to do it.

Speaker 10 (01:04:43):
I thought it would be so much fun to do
that for a living, being an art and actual archaeologist.

Speaker 1 (01:04:49):
Yeah, why not do it? Why not do it? Michelle?
What's stopping you?

Speaker 5 (01:04:53):
Well?

Speaker 10 (01:04:53):
I'm also well I'm taking care of my mother right now.

Speaker 1 (01:04:56):
Okay, so you got some stuff going on. But you
know what, I don't have to be an archaeologist to
matter or to make a difference, right, or to contribute
to science in our understanding of the world. I think
if you look out there, look for volunteer opportunities, you
can find ways to do that.

Speaker 3 (01:05:10):
Right.

Speaker 1 (01:05:11):
But let's not make stuff up just because we need
to feel like we matter, Right, does that make sense?
Let's try to do it the right way. Let's try
to find stuff. Let's try to find true things for
the way they are through good methods. How about that?

Speaker 5 (01:05:22):
Yeah? Yeah, well I thought.

Speaker 10 (01:05:23):
I thought it would be an interesting conversation.

Speaker 1 (01:05:26):
To certainly an interesting conversation. If that was your goal,
you did it. Good job. But listen, Michelle, we have
other people that need to talk to us today. So
is there anything else you want to get off your
chest before we let you go have a good night?
Thank you, Michelle, Thank you. Well that took a weird turn.
What do you think?

Speaker 2 (01:05:45):
Yeah, but it's interesting why people, you know, focus on
stuff like this, Like that was a really interesting reason too,
Like I want to come up with an answer that
nobody's been able to come up with it for so
that I'm remembered. Right, That's that's interesting.

Speaker 1 (01:06:02):
That's a very honest answer. And you know what, that's
maybe a radical honesty. I don't typically expect from people.
I know, you probably don't hear that kind of.

Speaker 2 (01:06:10):
What I do.

Speaker 1 (01:06:12):
Maybe you don't. I heard that. I don't heard somebody
say I made this up because I want to matters that.

Speaker 2 (01:06:19):
No, yeah, okay, I thought he was asking like the
type of honesty like I'll be here.

Speaker 1 (01:06:24):
Some Yeah, I'm sure you have. Yeah, I'm sure I
don't doubt that. No, that's you know, that says something
about the human psyche, isn't it? Like why did I
still believe part of it? Maybe was because I was
afraid of going hell. You know, I don't think that
was all of it, but looking back, that was probably
some of it, right, It.

Speaker 2 (01:06:42):
Was a lot of it for me. Yeah, but I
thought I was talking to guy when I was speaking
in tongues, right, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:06:48):
Like if you think you have a divine connection, that's
kind of hard to shake, right.

Speaker 2 (01:06:52):
But you know, I saidn't ask myself, like what the
fuck was I thinking to think that that was actually
speaking a language?

Speaker 1 (01:06:59):
Yeah? And you know what, like I that's why I
also like spaces like ours. Not to tute our own horns,
but I like that we can challenge people on ideas
that other people may be uncomfortable talking about because it's
an uncomfortable subject sometimes. But I think that we can
bring stuff out to people like I don't. That's probably
something Michelle telling us that that's an honor. Honestly, yeah,

(01:07:20):
I don't think Michelle would be comfortable just saying that
to anybody. You know, after some reason they know they
felt comfortable sharing. So I appreciate that, Michelle at least.
But you know, go do some real science, really, like,
go help out your local scientists and if you really
want to contribute. And I know you got other obligations,
but I'm sure there's ways. I'm sure those ways. But
that Let's move on. Let's talk to Let's talk to Dwayne,

(01:07:42):
who wants to talk to with some South Dakota. Dwayne
wants to talk to us about the truth of the
Bible not being acknowledged. Dwayne, you are live on truth
wanted what's going on?

Speaker 5 (01:07:53):
Good afternoon? Uh? You find people. My name is Duane,
and yes, I did want to speak with if you
guys about the truth of the Bible, specifically the betaitudes
that Jesus teaches and how we follow that truth. We
will be better as the gratitudes the beta tudesdes.

Speaker 1 (01:08:13):
I've never heard of betitudes. I've always heard the attitudes,
but yeah, I don't know what the I mean the attitudes.
I don't know like how much you want to dive
into that, you know, but I guess we can.

Speaker 5 (01:08:24):
Absolutely. I feel like if you, like I said earlier,
if you follow those teachings, if everyone in the world participated,
then we would be able as a as a people
to trend sin, sin and really live according to God's purpose,
maybe being a peacemaker.

Speaker 1 (01:08:44):
Yeah, I mean, so some of some of those ideas
are are kind of good, and he's just saying it's
a it's a list of him saying blessed right, So,
like you said, blessed be the peacemaker. Let's see. I
gotta google what the other ones are.

Speaker 8 (01:08:56):
I can't remember spiritless worn, blessed on the meek, blessed
on the hunger, and there's there's basically blessed on those.

Speaker 2 (01:09:06):
Who are who are suffering. Like if you're suffering, you're blessed,
but you're really not blessed. Because I'm gaslighting you, is
this what you're talking about?

Speaker 5 (01:09:14):
Well, what I'm saying is if everyone is meek, right,
if everyone is merciful is every if everyone is pure
parts and who would uh.

Speaker 1 (01:09:22):
Yeah, I mean if maybe maybe I don't know. The
thing is like like, you know, all these people are
blessed because they're like righteous under God and stuff, right,
Like That's that's the part I think we would have
trouble with because he's saying that all these people are
cool with God and that they get their blessings and
they're the ones in here at the earth and stuff.
And you know, that's the part that I wouldn't vibe with.

(01:09:43):
If we're just saying, hey, just be a good person,
I can vibe with that, but there's a lot of
other strings that are attached to that, you know what
I mean.

Speaker 2 (01:09:50):
I guess like when you say if everyone is meek,
like who would suffer? And that it says blessed on
those who hunger, and there's off of out the righteousness,
for they should be feeled. But the god like righteousness
to the God isn't necessarily doing the right thing right,
and so like if the God tells you to go
and like uh enslave a whole group of people, you're

(01:10:13):
going to do it because you thirst and hunger out
the righteousness. So everybody, like more people will suffer under that, right.

Speaker 5 (01:10:20):
Just a question for you, do you think that fasting
would be something that is bad for humanity?

Speaker 2 (01:10:26):
Fast?

Speaker 1 (01:10:26):
Potentially it depends on the person. Not everybody can do fast.
You know, I think fasting is a good thing. But like,
what does that have to do with anything?

Speaker 5 (01:10:33):
Honestly, we see I interpreted that as saying that all
those who fast and seek the word of the Lord.

Speaker 1 (01:10:39):
Okay, well, I have the verse here, Blessed are those
who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be satisfied.
I don't think that's talking about food. I think that's
talking about like righteousness.

Speaker 2 (01:10:51):
Like oband the God exactly, that's living just an upright,
that's like oband the God.

Speaker 1 (01:10:59):
Yeah, I don't think he's litter talking about food.

Speaker 5 (01:11:01):
Well, I mean, God does not say thou shall hunger, right, So,
as I said, I'm open to you guys having your
own interpretation. We all know that interpretation is very important.
But yes, I interpret that is to say, listen to
all those who hunger and thirst for the things of
the flesh, but deny those things for the righteousness of God.
But they will be feeled.

Speaker 1 (01:11:21):
Okay, But like, look, look at the end of this
I have it here. Rejoice and be glad, because great
is your reward in heaven, for in the same way
they persecuted the prophets who were before you. Right, So, like,
these lists of things could be nice, but this is
all built on this framework of Christianity. Right. I have
to know if a god is real. I have to
know if Jesus is the son of that God, and

(01:11:42):
we should care about what he says, and if there's
a heaven and stuff, right, Like, Otherwise this is just
a list of a guy saying, hey, we should do
some nice things. Right, And Jesus isn't the first person,
nor is he the last to like have a list
like this.

Speaker 5 (01:11:55):
So have you ever heard of the saying an eye
for an eye makes the world gone?

Speaker 1 (01:12:00):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (01:12:01):
I have right?

Speaker 5 (01:12:02):
What if instead of taking an eye for an eye,
everyone was merciful than meek, the world with much better.

Speaker 1 (01:12:07):
It's funny you say that because an eye for an
eye literally comes from the Bible. First of all, I
don't know if you know that, but that's where it
originates from. It's it's Old Testament law, right, so you
know they were already on that. It gets you know
reinterpreted now, but like I guess, yeah, say it again.

Speaker 5 (01:12:24):
What I thought that comes from. I thought that comes
from the code of Hamaabi.

Speaker 1 (01:12:28):
You're right, it does come from the Code of Hammarabi,
but the Bible takes it from the Code of Hamarabi.

Speaker 2 (01:12:33):
But also, like when you say everybody being merciful, like
mercy requires you ton like not punish somebody for doing wrong, right,
that means that there's somebody still doing wrong right.

Speaker 1 (01:12:46):
Mercy is not justice, right, It's not the same thing.
So you know, there's an argument to be made that
that's not appropriate.

Speaker 2 (01:12:53):
You're basically saying. This is why I don't like the
whole turn to other teak I think. I think you're
Jesus was you know. Creating passive is like you're you're
saying to lie down and let your enemy just fuck
you up. That's what you're saying, and never ever pursue justice.

Speaker 5 (01:13:12):
I think that that's what you might call small scale thinking.
As I stated previously in my introduction, I think that
if the whole world adhere to these teachings, there would
be no so well.

Speaker 2 (01:13:23):
Here in the whole world here to blessed are those
who mourn. They shall be comforted. Soay, everybody just sitting
around fucking crimes, and so your Jesus can come to
them and hug them, because that's the only time that
he said he gonna hug you, as is when you
grind everybody just sitting around somber poor in spirit.

Speaker 1 (01:13:41):
I mean again, like, maybe you're right, Maybe if everybody
acted this way, that would make the world a better place. Okay,
So what does that mean that Christianity is true? I
don't think so. Right A guy can say, hey, we
should do some stuff and it would make the world better,
and everything else about his life could still be bullshit.
Like I'm sure there's some cult leaders out there that

(01:14:02):
have said some really great things about how people should act,
but that doesn't mean the rest I should follow the cult.
You know what I mean?

Speaker 5 (01:14:08):
Well, in allectuality, I am not saying that every real
needs to be a Christian, But what I am positing
is that if we all followed the teachings found specifically
in Matthew five, and honestly any teaching of Jesus, that
the world would be a better place. I think that
Jesus took the time to speak to the things that

(01:14:30):
we as a people need to adhere to.

Speaker 2 (01:14:32):
I don't see. I don't see. I'm a little confused
because I don't see that these things are will make
the world a better place. Because it's literally saying if
you are somber right, mourning peacemakers, you're being persecuted right,
then that makes the world a better place. Like literally,
Christian see themselves as these righteous sufferers already, and the

(01:14:54):
world is not a better place. I don't The only
thing on here that a to say is pure in heart,
a person that's pure in heart, and peacemakers, but everything
else like, but I don't I don't see what you
see in this.

Speaker 5 (01:15:08):
If I were having a good conversation with you and
you decided to give into your wilds and haul off
and punch me, and I offered you the next cheap
would that make you more inclined to assault me or
less inclined?

Speaker 1 (01:15:22):
Okay, it depends on what you need. Let's turn this around.
Let's say a thinker goes and assaults a friend of
yours or or a family member. You said, are you
saying you shouldn't stop them from doing that? You should
just let her do that?

Speaker 5 (01:15:35):
I am saying that radical uh, load.

Speaker 1 (01:15:39):
No, No, let's let's know, let's be explicit. The thinkers
coming to your house and they're going to mess up
your family members. Are you going to stop them?

Speaker 5 (01:15:47):
I believe that every choice is made by the individual.
That person will have to make that decision on their own.

Speaker 1 (01:15:54):
But I know I'm okay. Let me make this clear.
I'm asking you call her. Somebody is going to your house,
house and they're going to mess up your family members.
You think it's the right thing to do to do
nothing about it and turn the other cheek.

Speaker 5 (01:16:06):
I think I will walk in the way that Jesus
laid out.

Speaker 1 (01:16:08):
What does that mean?

Speaker 5 (01:16:09):
I will be meek, I will be merciful, I will
be you know they're gonna let him do it Jesus
as well. The thing about it is we all have
free will, and for me to impose on someone else's
free will would be playing god.

Speaker 1 (01:16:24):
No no, no, see, I think you would be expressing
your free will. Your will is to stop that other
person's will, right like, Like, that's that's terrible, right, that
doesn't make for a good society. I think if we're
just like, well, I guess i'd be imposing. I guess
this I should kill my mom because, like you know,
I be imposing on his free will. That doesn't make

(01:16:45):
a good society, right, I don't think that's a very
just society.

Speaker 2 (01:16:48):
And that's the way that you see your God too, right,
Like your God is respecting your free will so much
that he's just letting y'all get your ass whooped, and
then and then also on the other side, letting y'all
kill people.

Speaker 1 (01:17:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:17:00):
Well, I personally never received a word to kill somebody
for my God, and I don't I personally think that
he gives such commands.

Speaker 1 (01:17:09):
He does. Have you read the Bible? Have you actually
read the Bible? Have you read like every any chapter
in the Old Testament? You know how many times God
has said to wipe other people out? Right, I mean
God has done it himself sometimes.

Speaker 5 (01:17:22):
Look at that. We have to look at the why.

Speaker 1 (01:17:26):
Said it never happened, but it has happened. But we
have to look at the why now, right, there's a
little bit of a change of story.

Speaker 5 (01:17:33):
So okay, so I understand, I understand that there are
certain places in time that God exacted his justice from
the world.

Speaker 1 (01:17:43):
Oh so that was an a violation of free will? Followers,
I just want to be clear, so that that was
an a violation of free will.

Speaker 5 (01:17:50):
Well, they exercised their free will to be in a
position where.

Speaker 1 (01:17:54):
Okay, well again, if somebody's coming to my house to
mess up my mom, I'm going to exercise my will
and stop them. Exactly, I don't think so you know,
that kind of throws that part of the attitudes out
a little bit, right, what I.

Speaker 2 (01:18:07):
Was saying, like that a little turn the other cheek
and blessing all those and mourn and know like that
everybody in this list is fucking somber and mourning, and
like they're getting their ass is handed to them because
Jesus told them to, and Jesus said, this is how
you're going to inherit the Kingdom of God.

Speaker 1 (01:18:27):
Right, And let's be clear, we're not just talking about
metaphor here, because that's literally what happened to Jesus, if
you believe the account, Like he literally let them take
him and kill him. Right, So, like Christians are literally
expected to do the same thing, and historically actually have
in some circumstances. So I don't think that's the best
path forward personally.

Speaker 5 (01:18:47):
Well, I mean, you guys asked for the truth, the
name of the show is truth wanted. That's right, wanted
to show you that the truth is that if you
follow these attitudes, right, if everybody in the world stopped
living for flesh and started living for the spirit, and
started following these addisondes, then we would not have any
of the problems that we see in this world today.

(01:19:09):
Jesus taught us to take care of those who are
in need and sick, and yeah, all us not to
value the things of the world. And I think that
that's very important.

Speaker 1 (01:19:18):
Jesus actually said, hey, don't take care of the poor,
you should follow me instead. Right. There's a story of
a man mourning and bearing his father and Jesus says, no, actually,
come follow me instead. Right. So there's one counter examples
to this, but two again, Dwayne, I really hope this
doesn't happen. I don't. But if somebody comes to mess
up with your family, I hope you stop them, right,

(01:19:40):
and somebody comes for you. I hope that you defend yourself.
I don't want that for you. I don't want you
to not have to defend yourself because you think that
this is the right thing to do because Jesus said so, Right,
I really think these ideas. Some of them may be good,
but I think some of them are a little bit problematic.
I don't think you should buy them whole sale, which
is what you're selling me here.

Speaker 5 (01:19:59):
I appreciate and understand your concern for my safety, But
just as Jesus was able to call on the angels
to help him in the time of need, I would
also be able to call upon the forces of heaven
to help you.

Speaker 1 (01:20:15):
Really you're gonna call upon the forces of heaven? Wow,
that's interesting, Dwayne. Okay, I wish. I wish other victims
of crime were able to do that. I'm glad you
have that ability. I'll say that much as long.

Speaker 5 (01:20:26):
As you know the true name of the Father and
the Son, and you will be able to call upon
the forces of heaven.

Speaker 1 (01:20:35):
I didn't catch that part, But listen, Dwayne, I don't know.
We're kind of out of time for this call. We
heard your point, we disagreed. It sounds like you don't
care that we disagreed. I really addressed anything that we
had to say about it. So you have anything else
you want to have before we let you go.

Speaker 5 (01:20:51):
No, thank you, guys for the opportunity. I hope that
you guys are in good health.

Speaker 1 (01:20:56):
All right. I hope you're in good health to dayane,
I really do.

Speaker 2 (01:21:00):
Don't submit too much.

Speaker 1 (01:21:02):
Don't submit too much? Yeah, what an interesting call. I
don't know, what do you think about that one?

Speaker 2 (01:21:10):
I don't know. It's not like you said, holds.

Speaker 1 (01:21:13):
Ive heard like horse radish. That was my take, I
guess I'll my summary is that Beatitudes maybe has a
few good things. I'm not going to say it's all bad,
but like you shouldn't just accept it all as true wholesale,
and especially not the underlying implications here, which is you
do all these things and you get to go to heaven, right,

(01:21:35):
and there's all this other stuff attached to it.

Speaker 5 (01:21:37):
Right.

Speaker 1 (01:21:37):
So that's that's what I'm stuck on.

Speaker 2 (01:21:39):
Like being a peacemaker is good when when you know
it's necessary, but it kind of gives the idea that
you know, Jesus is against fighting back, right, and I
don't necessarily. I think when people read this and they
see Blessed are the poor in spirit, that they think
that's Jesus saying to take care of the poor. And

(01:22:00):
it's not like if you're poor in spirit and spirit,
like you're broken hearted you're down trodden, right, And I
don't necessarily see this list. This is the pacifist list
for me, Like, this is the list that Jesus uses
to turn people into pacifists that allow them to allow,
you know, people who have more narcissistic and abusive personalities

(01:22:24):
to actually trod on people who are trying to live.

Speaker 1 (01:22:28):
You know, I unnecessarily I agree the verse here. Yeah,
this is in Matthew twenty six to eleven. He says
the poor will always be with you, but you will
not always have me, right, And he's talking from this
idea that way, I'm more important than helping the poor
people right now, following and lecturing me, like, you know,
the religion of Jesus is not just about do nice

(01:22:50):
things for me, it's it's also, at least in some part,
like worshiping the literal figure of Jesus. And sometimes people
like to separate that is.

Speaker 2 (01:22:58):
That That's the one where Judas was like, man, why
are you putting three hundred dollars worth of oil? Let
not put that three hundred dollars worth of oil on
your body? And he's like, oh, because I'm worth it.

Speaker 1 (01:23:09):
I think yeah, I think that's literally that chapter. Yeah,
whether it's because like they're watching him and doing all
this stuff. Yeah, yeah, that's that's where that comes from, because.

Speaker 2 (01:23:18):
I think the poor with that, and He's like, the
poor would be with you forever, but not next week.

Speaker 10 (01:23:25):
I'm your leader.

Speaker 1 (01:23:26):
Yeah, two things for me. I really think that the
most radical change I've had since a Christian is viewing
Jesus as a cult leader. Right. You say that the
Christians and they think, what, how could you say that?
But like that if you read between the lines and
like it's kind of there in the text, you really
do see it. Like we are really kind of out
of time, but like we have another call that it's
just so it looks like it's really interesting. You want

(01:23:48):
to take one more? Okay, let's let's do one and
and I'm going to talk to you. We got Jim
calling in from Texas. Jim, we are towards the end
of tonight's program. Okay, so I'm serious here. We don't
have a whole lot of time. Okay, but we'll let
you talk here. I want to hear what you have
to say. Call Speer says that you say that you
do have evidence for God and I don't know and

(01:24:09):
like the human body, I guess. So let's see what
you have to say.

Speaker 4 (01:24:11):
Go ahead, Jim, Interesting, Well, yeah, well I was just
thinking about it. And you know why atheists don't believe
in God. And it says in his word that we
know that there is a God by the things that
he's made. So I got to thinking.

Speaker 3 (01:24:27):
About a body. And in a body, it's composed of
approximately one hundred and thirty trillion so and each cell
has one hundred trillion atoms that make it up. And
in the DNA of those cells that they say the
coil of that each one of them is around six
foot long, and that if you extend that, that would

(01:24:49):
like go to the moon and back over one hundred
and fifty thousand times. Now that's hard for me to believe,
you know that. I can't My mind can't grasp that
that that just happened by chance. I think what I
feel like it takes more faith to believe that that
happened by chance than you know, a God that made it,

(01:25:09):
you know, and we're I believe that we're both by faith,
you know, like in biogenesis or the beginning of life
that you know, atheists they don't know what started and
you know, Christians will just say, well, God was the
creator of heaven and earth, So yeah, I guess that's
to start.

Speaker 1 (01:25:28):
Okay, Okay, all right, Jim, I'm going to say something here,
and this is going to sound really mean, and I
really don't mean it in a mean way. Okay, Okay,
So I think it sounds unbelievable to you because you
don't understand it. Okay, Now, don't get me wrong. I
don't completely understand it either. I'm not a biologist.

Speaker 10 (01:25:45):
Right.

Speaker 1 (01:25:45):
We have Forrest Balcai, who is a biologist and is
studying it at his PhD right now on the show,
who talks a lot about this stuff and about evolution,
about DNA and how these things work. But I think
people who actually do study this stuff every day can
give better explanations as to how sales work, how they
how they duplicate right, how they you know, under mitosis

(01:26:05):
and do all these things in the body that would
make sense, right as a more natural explanation than just
us throwing us our hands up in the air and saying, well,
I don't understand it, so it must be God right,
And I'm not saying biologists can tell you the answers
to everything. Right, there's a lot of questions about how
life on Earth originated, Right, what were the exact mechanics

(01:26:26):
of a biogenesis or if we came from Earth. You know,
there's other ideas like panspermia right where life comes from
other planets. Obviously they had to start from somewhere too, right.
But the point is, you know, we don't have all
the answers, but we have a lot of answers, and
that's kind of interesting. So I get this idea of Wow,
this all seems kind of fantastical, but I also think
evolution provides a lot of explanatory power for a lot

(01:26:48):
of things that we see on Earth and how life
has developed. So you know, I don't think it necessarily
points to the Christian God or really any god more so,
you know, just by by by saying that, does that
make sense?

Speaker 3 (01:27:00):
Yes, heir, Yes her too. Things. You know James Tour,
have you ever heard of him?

Speaker 1 (01:27:04):
James to James Tour, I don't think so.

Speaker 3 (01:27:07):
He's looking him up.

Speaker 9 (01:27:09):
He's a chemist and he said there's no way that.

Speaker 3 (01:27:13):
The chemistry could like to started the first sell. So
there are others on the other side, scientists that are
taking another view, And.

Speaker 1 (01:27:20):
Jim, do you think most chemists feel that way, because
that's the thing, you know, we were just talking to right,
and we were just a couple of calls earlier. We
were talking to a guy who apparently has a PhD
Electrical engineering who thinks that NASA may have different ideas
about the Viking, about the uh you know face on Mars. Right,
there's lots of people who have PhDs and stuff and
have kooky opinions on things, right, I don't know if

(01:27:44):
that's the best way to look at things, you know, well,
I mean.

Speaker 9 (01:27:47):
Your your other person there is a thinker.

Speaker 3 (01:27:50):
So I'm thinking it just doesn't make sense to me
that that's just okay, okay, I know, yeah, you gotta go.
But but the point you made out about that the
other color before me and you said, you know that
they anointed Jesus or whatever, and and what what Jesus did?
He washed their feet? He said, you know, uh do

(01:28:14):
likewise said.

Speaker 9 (01:28:15):
He was a servant. If I'm your lord.

Speaker 3 (01:28:17):
I want you to go out and help other people.

Speaker 2 (01:28:19):
She didn't spend money on that. Yeah, that we're talking about.
We're talking about the him, you know, helping the poor
or taking from the poor to anoint his body because
he said that he's more worthy than that, right, I.

Speaker 1 (01:28:33):
Mean Jesus and his followers did take donations from people, yeah,
to live out into their things.

Speaker 5 (01:28:39):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:28:40):
Jesus had women following him to pay for his stuff,
Like I honestly think he was pimment.

Speaker 1 (01:28:45):
But well, yeah, it's all other things.

Speaker 2 (01:28:48):
But yeah, yeah, But I just wanted to ask you're
saying that it takes more faith to believe the I
honestly don't know what. I cannot explain or articulate what
you explained in the beginning, but you said it takes
more faith for an atheist to believe that than it
does to have a belief that a God did a thing.

(01:29:08):
Is that what I'm understanding what you are saying is
the proof of your God.

Speaker 1 (01:29:12):
That we are God, that there is Oh, you were
saying that that that part of the evidence of of
why God is because there's a passage in the Bible
that says that the atheists you know, are going to
black faith, right, like you reference that at the beginning,
and thinkers, thinkers just asking about that, Well.

Speaker 3 (01:29:27):
A fool, it says, A fool says in his heart
there is no God.

Speaker 9 (01:29:31):
So that's what God. You know, you know that scripture.
So yeah, but I just I just think.

Speaker 3 (01:29:38):
You look at the whole creation, that there must have
been a creator, a designer of it all. I mean,
that's just another.

Speaker 2 (01:29:45):
But you said, you said it takes more faith to
believe in a biogenesis than it does to believe that
you're God created. Did I hear that correctly?

Speaker 1 (01:29:55):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:29:55):
I believe, yeah, yeah, that this this was an accident.
Everything in in the universe was an accident, a chance
it happened.

Speaker 2 (01:30:03):
And that's what you're saying is the proof of your God.
When you said you have proof of guys that what.

Speaker 1 (01:30:07):
You're saying that, I think he's just giving his opinion.
I think he's just saying, you know.

Speaker 3 (01:30:11):
That's just a thought. I mean there's more, there's more reasons.
I mean, you know, the claims that Jesus made that
he rose from the dead, Well, nobody's ever risen from
the dead. And that's why we listen to him. And
just to finish, I mean, the man who wrote the
Gospel of John and Revelation, the thing he ended up

(01:30:32):
my saying was he said, truly Jesus did many other
science in the presence of the disciples, which are not
written in this book, but these are written that you
may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God,
and that believing you may have life in his name.
So I mean that sums up the gospel. I believe too,
that we have to have faith. And you know, there's

(01:30:55):
a difference between evidence and proof. You know, you'll have
a trial and people give evidence, you know, and all that. Well,
that's just a part. I'm not saying that's complete proof. Okay,
you know, but it it okay.

Speaker 1 (01:31:07):
Yeah, I hear you, Jim, I hear what you're saying.
But like I wonder how much you know, like for example,
about the science of anthropology, like do you believe like
there are other beings that preceded Homo sapiens, Like do
you think that we didn't evolve like we were created
exactly as we were, or or do you think that
we evolve from other species?

Speaker 3 (01:31:27):
I don't. I don't. And listen, I'm sorry, I'm not
a scientist or right, you know, an anthropologist, and I
respect that. So I yes, sir, yeah, I don't. I
get you, Yeah, yes, sir.

Speaker 1 (01:31:39):
But you know we're talking about evidence, right, right, And
I think you think that evidence is a good thing.
And the truth is, there's a lot of evidence that
we did come from other beings.

Speaker 5 (01:31:48):
Right.

Speaker 1 (01:31:48):
You don't have to believe a biogenesis to believe that
we came from other animals. Right. Those are actually two
separate ideas. But if we understand enough about the mechanics
of evolution and the fossils that we found and the
record that it keeps and shows us in science, then
it does point to that picture that we at least
came from something else, right, And that kind of underminds
this idea of intention in our creation.

Speaker 10 (01:32:10):
Right.

Speaker 1 (01:32:10):
You know, you use the word accident. I think people
adapted to their circumstances and their environment and how we
came to be, that there were laws at work, just
laws of nature, right, forces of nature that happened. You
can call that an accident. But it seems to me
that that would be more reasonable than to just say, well,
we came on the scene, and it just so happens
that all these other apes also came on the scene

(01:32:31):
just before us and had similar characteristics, and some of
them had the capacity of speech, and some of them
had the capacity of sewing clothes and stuff. But they're
not human beings. They're something else, right, you know that
paints a more complicated picture, I think, so, I don't know,
but yeah, I'm just putting some thoughts out there, Jim.
There may be some other explanations that could could might

(01:32:52):
surprise you as to how we got here, and not
just talking about the a biogenesis thing. But hey, like
I said, we're getting close to the end here. Anything
else you want to add before we let you go? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:33:01):
Yeah, I would like to ask you one question, go ahead, Uh, okay,
And like the I would say, atheists are arguing against
God for the reason that if there is a God,
that we are going to stand before and give an
account one day. If there isn't, we won't have to.
And so if there's not, I can live like I want.

(01:33:22):
I can you know, sex whatever, you know, I can
do what I.

Speaker 9 (01:33:27):
Want to do, and I'm the God of my life.

Speaker 3 (01:33:29):
And isn't that a basic premise that atheists have.

Speaker 2 (01:33:34):
It seems like, like what is it that you think
atheists are doing that You're not, like you think we're
just out here killing people sexing it up? Like, I
don't know, what is it that you think of atheist's
life is that's different from yours. And if you're saying
that the only reason why you're not killing people and
sexing it up, then you're you're not a good person anyway.

(01:33:54):
Like you're not doing it because that's who you are,
and you're doing it because you want to go to heaven.

Speaker 3 (01:33:59):
Yeah, right, Well the reason is I'm not. I'm not
saying you're doing that. I pray you're not. I mean,
you sound like really great people. But to me, I
see that there's darkness in my life. There's sin, according
to what God said, and I want forgiveness of that,
and that's why He shed his blood for me.

Speaker 2 (01:34:20):
That that's not what you said.

Speaker 3 (01:34:22):
Wait a minute, and that eventually at.

Speaker 9 (01:34:25):
The end, I will have eternal life, not.

Speaker 3 (01:34:28):
Only in heaven, but right now And what you know,
I said, why do you believe I would say to me,
there's a peace that passes understanding, that a piece in
my heart that when I do just stand before Him,
that I will I will be justified by what Jesus did.
I guess that that blows down. Now you can believe
that or not. You know, that's right, But that's the message,

(01:34:49):
isn't it. Isn't it the Christian message?

Speaker 1 (01:34:51):
Jim, let me let me let me leave on this note,
because we do got to go. Okay, First of all,
it's very unfortunate you call it at the end of
the show. I would love to have a much longer
conversation with you. I would love it if you could
please try to if you could make time to call
back again. I will absolutely pick you up. First thing, Okay,
I think you we would have a great conversation together.
But I'll leave you with this. You know what you
talk about with atheists, that's an unfortunate prejudice that we

(01:35:14):
get faced with that we don't like God, right, we
have some sort of problem with him and his judgment
and his rules, and so we're kind of doing this
out of spite worving it because we want to sin
or do our own things. And the truth is the
reason why atheist and why Thinker is an athist, why
other people are atheists, is because we just can't accept
these ideas as true. Right. The sin thing doesn't matter

(01:35:34):
as much. Right. And here's another thing, Jim. Let's say
there is a God, I think he's going to have
to look at my life and evaluate whether I'm a
good person or not despite my belief in him, And
I think he'd be able to do that. And I
think he would be able to say that I was
a good person, or at least I would try to be.
Maybe it's not all the ways that he would think
it's a good person. But like it or not, there's
actually a lot of atheists that do live by their

(01:35:54):
own moral codes, and it's for different reasons than what
God lays out right, But you know, we a lot
of us really do try to do our best every day.
And I'm not trying to run away from a god
because I want to sin. I really want to know
what's true and what's not true, right, And I don't
think the Christian God at this point in my life
really makes sense to me as an idea and for

(01:36:15):
most of us right that do identify as atheists. But Jim,
I want to say thank you so much for calling in.
I got to let you go now we've got to
end the show, but I sincerely hope you call again
because I think we would have a great longer conversation.
You think you look like you want to say something
to that. What do you want to say?

Speaker 2 (01:36:33):
It's the whole you just want to send thing. And
then when I point out, like you're not doing anything
different than what you're doing, and just it's very hypocritical
for them to always point the finger at us. Right,
But if your God is going to send somebody to
hell for not believing, why they are not the ones

(01:36:54):
out here killing, but the killer gets to go to heaven.
Like I don't want to be anywhere near your gone,
I don't.

Speaker 1 (01:37:00):
Yeah, that's a good point as well, Like we're we're
put under this moral lens here, I think very uncharitably
because we don't live up to Christian standards of right
and wrong when personally I don't think Christian standards of
right and wrong are good enough. I actually think I
try to hold myself to a higher standard. I'll give
you an example that I'm a vegan. I've been vegan

(01:37:21):
for the last five years, and I do it for
personal moral reasons. And you know what, like Christianity doesn't
teach that at all. Christianne doesn't care about what you
do to animals. Right now, that's not a standard that
everybody follows. But the point is, like I came to
that and I don't need God for that right. I
can find my own way through that, and lots of
atheists find their own morality in their own ways. Does

(01:37:42):
it come to a head with other people because we
don't have like a big objective objective system. Sure, but
we never had it anyway, right, It's not like Christians
didn't have this problem or haven't had this problem. They
fight about stuff all the time, about what's right, so
you know. But on that note, we are at the
end of the show, folks, we are over time. We
gotta wrap things. I want to think Thinker for coming

(01:38:03):
back on the pot. Thanks so much, Thinker, great shoving
me absolutely. If people want to find you, where should
they go?

Speaker 2 (01:38:11):
In Growth on TikTok Yeah, and art Thinker on youtubelly.

Speaker 1 (01:38:16):
Yeah, go check that out if you want to look
at Thinkers content. And let's bring Kelly back on stage
really quick to help us and this show. What's going on? Kelly?

Speaker 6 (01:38:25):
Hey, Dan, you know what, I wrote a bunch of
notes about the show. I know we're going over I'm
going to just ignore most of them, but I gotta
say two things, man, I have to Okay, the rover
remote moves at point zero point one mile an hour,
so think of that scene from Austin Powers with the
guy getting run over by all right, so that's so.

Speaker 1 (01:38:46):
Hey any fashion, But Kelly, how fast do you think
smurfs move? They probably don't move that fast.

Speaker 6 (01:38:51):
But you don't have to run away from it. You
just got to step off the side, right.

Speaker 1 (01:38:56):
You got a good point.

Speaker 6 (01:38:58):
And the other thing was for Michelle. Michelle, I want
you to go look up plate tectonics. Yeah, and Dan there.
Actually we do think about four billion years ago the
Earth was covered in water. However, the oldest fossils of
coral are about five hundred million years old, so they
don't correspond to the same time that the Earth was

(01:39:20):
covered in water. So that's another thing that was kind
of wrong with Michelle's theory there, or idea. I shouldn't
call it a theory.

Speaker 1 (01:39:26):
Thank you, Thank you geologist Kelly for coming in. You
know we should have brought you in on that one.
So thanks for the note. Michelle.

Speaker 6 (01:39:33):
If you are still watching the show, look up plate tectonics.
It'll explain how the coral got there. And with that,
the only other thing I need to do is remind
everybody what the question is for next week, and that
is if aliens landed tomorrow. Who should we send as
a tour guide?

Speaker 1 (01:39:51):
Yes, leave your comment below and we will get to
it next week and read our top three answers. I
want to give again a special thank you to the
crew for doing the show today and another thank you
to think Or. This was a great episode. I loved it. Folks.
That is game for today. It's all the time we got.
This has been another awesome episode of truth Wanted. I
am objectively danned. Remember to always keep on the truth

(01:40:11):
and I'll see you next time. Now watch the nonprofits

(01:40:37):
and join the hosts in the live chat. Visit tiny dot,
cc slash yt n b