Truth Wanted 08.42 with ObjectivelyDan and Christina Carol

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, everybody, Welcome to Truth Wanted, the call in show
where we get to the truth, one call at a time.
Whether it's supernatural, spiritual, pseudo scientific, or something completely out there,
we want to hear it. So grab your phone because
the show is starting right now. Hello, Hello, everybody, Welcome

(00:22):
back to another episode of Truth Wanted. I'm your host,
Objectively Dan. This is the live calling show that happens
every single week Friday's at seven pm Central Time. We
talk to people about what they believe and why, and
if you like to call us, you should do it
because we're live and you can do that. The number
is five to one two nine nine nine two four two,
or you can go through your computer at tie dot

(00:42):
cc slash call t e W. Truth Wanted is a
product of the Atheist Community of Austin, a five oh
one c three nonprofit organization dedicated to the promotion of atheism,
critical thinking, secular humanism, the separation of religion and government.
And every single week we always try to have a
special guest. This week is no different. I have Christina
Carol joining me today. Christina, Welcome to Truth Wanted, Dan.

Speaker 2 (01:05):
How are you? I'm to be here?

Speaker 1 (01:08):
I'm so excited. I'm so glad that you're here today.
You came to us in recommendation with Thinker, who was
just with us, So go check out that episode. Think
It's been on the show before, but she told us
about you, and now we get to talk to you
on this show. So thanks so much for joining us. Christina,
If you could describe yourself and what you do online,

(01:28):
how would you do it?

Speaker 2 (01:29):
I am a I'm just a girl that asked questions.
I'm like, I'm just a girl, right, but.

Speaker 1 (01:34):
Just a girl. I love that too.

Speaker 2 (01:35):
I mean that's fine. I started asking questions to believers
as I started publicly deconstructing. So what I do is
I'll pose a prompt and I encourage believers to come
on up and discuss the problem with me. Sometimes the
conversation can get a little bit contentious, but we've definitely
moved in a direction about trying to figure out how

(01:57):
to move forward in our society, both as belief and
non believers.

Speaker 1 (02:01):
Yeah, and so when you're live, you're you're primarily talking
to folks on TikTok.

Speaker 2 (02:04):
Right, right, Yeah, So we're on TikTok primarily for right now.
We're looking to expand soon.

Speaker 1 (02:08):
Nice. Yeah, and so you and you talk to folks,
not just yourself, but you have a panel of folks
that you're talking with.

Speaker 2 (02:15):
I have an amazing panel of people who I trust,
who have researched the scriptures, who know, you know, we
have people who have been studying Hebrew. Thinker, she's been
studying Hebrew. And you know, we just have people who
are knowledgeable in a lot of different areas so that
when guests come up, there's something for everyone to engage.
And I might not be like a philosophy person, which

(02:37):
I'm definitely not, but we have people like my good
friend Mac, who is really able to engage in those
types of calls as well. So it's exciting.

Speaker 1 (02:47):
Yeah, the way you describe it almost sounds like the
Pentagon Root's like you have a You've got a counsel
of people with different sort of military expertise writing to
ready to attack when need to know. I know that
you're not about that. I think I think you're probably
similar to me in the sense that, like, I just
like talking to people about what they think and why,
and like, you know, you're also similar to because you're
a former Christian, you deconstructed from Christianity tell me about

(03:10):
that a little bit.

Speaker 2 (03:11):
So I'm deconstructing. I don't know if I'll ever be
able to say that I'm fully deconstructed. You know, I've
deconstructed the point where I can say, yes, I'm atheist.
I don't believe in God or gods. But I think,
you know, when it comes to religion, especially for me, Christianity,
it's like wago, right, So the fat runs throughout and

(03:31):
it's really challenging to pick those pieces out. So I
have to look at my life now. I'm not just
deconstructing texts. I'm not just trying to figure out if
this lines up with this, but I have to change now.
I have to deconstruct Christina. I had to deconstruct how
I perceive the world around me because my lens up
until twenty eighteen twenty nineteen, was through the lens of Christianity,

(03:54):
and it warped a lot of things, which really makes
deconstructing challenging, and I think that's why a lot of
people are more hesitant to do.

Speaker 1 (04:00):
So. I just need to tell the folks because you know,
we were talking a little bit before the show, and
you use the line it's like wagoo and like the
fact and like that that. I was like as soon
as you said, I was like, we need to stop
this right here, because we need to continue this like
on the show, because that is such a good metaphor
and I've never heard them before, and I love that.
But you're so right, Like when I was Christian, like

(04:21):
it was everything to me, right, Like, I mean, like
it defined my identity, it defined my life purpose, it
defined my moral beliefs. And so when you begin to
doubt that whole structure. Reason why it is called deconstruction
is because it's not just one thing. You know, and
I say this all the time of the show, but
like when we talk to people, it should never be about, oh,

(04:42):
we're just building better arguments for the things that we
already believe in don't believe. It's like it's it's it's
way more than that. It's it's how we live our lives. Right,
It's not just a philosophical exercise in what we think
is true or not true.

Speaker 2 (04:55):
Right, right, It's how I raised my children. I was
raised to look at the world a certain way. I
was do I was raised to look at myself a
certain way, and I had to determine. Okay, like this
is how I know how this impacted me. I don't
want my children to look at the world this way.
I don't want to tell them how to look at
the world either. Yeah, I want to as as their mom.

(05:15):
I want to be able to be here and watch
them evolve and grow and and just guide them in
the ways to be good human beings, be respectful, be
kind to others, be you know, be empathetic. You know
hav an emotional intelligence is really important, right, And I
just think that we're better off.

Speaker 1 (05:33):
That way, absolutely, And you know that's that's an interesting
thing too, because you as a parent. I have heard
this from other folks who are parents who have also
deconstructed or are deconstructing as you put it, which is
again great. I love the active verb there. It's it's
it's true because you're always still thinking stuff through. But
it's like you know your you have obviously your stance
that you've just described as like I want my kids

(05:54):
to be open I'm going to be open minded to
what my kids want to think. And that was just
is that a respond to how you were as a Christian,
because you know, I think that's how it is from
everybody that I hear, right, because like I know, when
I was a Christian, my parents definitely had specific wants
and desires for how I wanted to live my life, right.

Speaker 2 (06:12):
Absolutely, Like I'm not raising my children to feel it
like we have the God of the gaps, right, we
fell God into the gaps, and then because we feel
God into the gaps of our lives, we haven't fulfilled
ourselves completely. So now we look to our children to
fulfill those gaps. And I don't want my children to
be fulfilling gaps of mine. I want to live my
life fully and allow them to live their lives fully.

Speaker 1 (06:34):
Wow, that's a deep insight. Just also just as from
a parenting perspectives, definitely our parents that want to live
vicariously through their children and want them to do certain
things because maybe they failed in a certain way or
they want to give them better opportunities than they have
for somefense. Like but at the end of the day,
your kid is their own person, right, and you can't
lead a horse to water, can't make them drink it, right,
It's like, yeah, it's.

Speaker 2 (06:55):
Really it's really exciting. Like when I was growing up,
like I lived in a household where it was like
do as you're told, right, you do as you're told,
and there was an order. You know, there's God, there's
the father and mom and then the kids, right, And
I didn't, you know, have a voice, So I just
did what I was told. And so when people hear

(07:16):
me interacting with my children, they're often shocked at how
like articulate they are. They're able to express themselves emotionally,
they can engage in conversations. Why because I'm not. I
want them to be fully immersed in the reality in
which they live. And that does not include me giving
them something that is not real to believe it. I
need them to be fully present, fully here. And yeah,

(07:36):
we work through those things. So you know, my children there,
they're twelve and fourteen. I love them so much. They're amazing,
but you know, they're critical thinkers and sometimes they check
me on my stuff. I'm like, I'm still deconstructing all.

Speaker 1 (07:52):
You guys got a head start on this, you know,
I had to figure this out a little later. Yeah. Yeah, wow,
that's so interesting though, because like you know, there is
a common criticism that Christians sort of bring to me.
And I'm sure you've heard this as well, where it's like, well,
you know, even if this whole God thing is in real, right,
you're still bringing people structure to their lives, right, Like

(08:13):
you're still sort of giving them something that they can
have hope in or believing or doing. But man, like,
I just think, what's the point if it's not real though? Right,
I don't know, Maybe.

Speaker 2 (08:24):
That's just really but here And the thing is, I'm
not trying to take anything more. Men, if my children
grow and they they subscribe to a religion that that
that you know, resonates with them, I'm not here to
take that. But I'm a proponent of understanding why you
believe what you believe.

Speaker 1 (08:44):
Right, You're building your own culture as a family, right,
and like they can take from that culture what they want,
and then they may not. They're their own people at
the end of the day. I think that's what scares
people is, Oh, people can have a choice in all
this you speak. Yeah, yeah, it's only sense control. That's
that's a hard thing to give to kids, I think
for some people, because you want what's best for the

(09:06):
kid and you think sometimes they're making mistakes or but like,
I don't know, that's that's how everybody lived their life right,
everybody's gonna make their own choices.

Speaker 2 (09:13):
It's going to be wrong. Like the kids they have chores.

Speaker 1 (09:17):
Yeah, oh yeah, I'm.

Speaker 2 (09:18):
The only one paying the bills in here, so take
the trash out, you know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (09:22):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's not that.

Speaker 2 (09:25):
Yeah, this is very much so well, you know, but
as far as I treat them like humans, I don't
treat them like like they're like. I tell them like,
I gave birth to two humans and I'm just responsible
for like helping them along. I'm not here to make
them me.

Speaker 1 (09:38):
Yeah, yeah, you're you're not. Like it's not a free
for all, you know, but like your your your values
are said differently right than before, which is which is
actually is It's a good good way to think about that.
I think it's just like, yeah, like you you had
these dues and don'ts when you grew up and stuff,
and I have my own dues and don'ts. And I
found out that some of those dudes I should have

(09:59):
done and some of those dons shouldn't have been don'ts.
You know. So it's like I don't know, I don't
know if anybody has, you know, figured out when it
comes to parenting at the end of day. But it
sounds like you're doing your best best I can do, right, Yeah,
So yeah, well that's great, that's I I love that.
Back to the TikTok stuff and your your conversations with people.

(10:19):
How long have you been talking to people on TikTok Now.

Speaker 2 (10:23):
I want to say it's been about two years now,
two years.

Speaker 1 (10:26):
So you're doing it every week.

Speaker 2 (10:29):
Monday, Wednesday and Friday. So yeah, Monday, Wednesday and Friday
eleven thirty am. We're on TikTok and it's fun. It's
always a good time. I'm so excited when it's time
to go live and talk to people and just you know,
the conversations are always interesting.

Speaker 1 (10:42):
Yeah, tell me about that. So what kind of conversations,
What's what's some of your favorites there?

Speaker 2 (10:46):
There have I again, like I love talking about like morality,
I do because I just feel it. I feel like
it's so simple, but it's not because morality is subjective, right, Yeah,
And when we're talking to believers, it's it's very staunch,
like they have very staunch positions and a lot of
it is based off of a subjective God, just like
your positions shaky because your God shaky. But again, I

(11:12):
go through stages in my deconstruction where like in the beginning,
I was just really sad and really broken by like
the discovery of like my whole life being something that
I wasn't prepared to come to grips that it wasn't real.
And then I got angry. So I went through a
bit of a phase whereas like conversations with me about

(11:33):
certain topics we're just not gonna end well because I
have a stance on this and I'm pissed about the
outcome of because of it. Right now, I'm entering into
a space where it's like, I know, we need to
bridge the gap to move forward. If we're going to
if we're going to survive as a society, we have
to lock arms. And there's only one way to do that,
and that's to you know, stop the shouting and really

(11:56):
have conversations where we're all like, okay, by is put
those over here, personal beliefs, put those over here. How
do we move forward together lovely before we destroy each other?

Speaker 1 (12:05):
I love that you know, and christinay, well you speak
to You've said some stuff that other people on the
show have said, there's certainly true for me, which was, Yeah,
I was angry for a while, right, And that angry
atheist phase that's so real, that's so real. It's I
can't explain to other than you know, when you realize
the injustice of it all, it could just really get
to you. I think that's how it was for me anyway.

(12:28):
But I'm with you where it's like, yeah, you know,
now we can build bridges. Now we can figure out
what's within my control and what's not within my control,
and how can I make the world a better place
out of it? Right? So, yeah, I hear you on that.

Speaker 2 (12:41):
Yeah. I had to like check myself on a few
things because I would constantly harp on Christians about their
lack of empathy and when it came to, you know,
worshiping the God over the land instead of the people
that are on the land, and I had to kind
of look at myself and say, what empathy am I
am I leading with? When it comes to believers who

(13:01):
are in the same space that I was once in,
they believe the same things that I once believe for
whatever reason. So whether I think that their their arguments
are nonsense, or whether I think that they're being disingenuous.
I too, very much so believed at one point everything
that they believe, and I argue the same with the
same you know, fervent passion that they do. So I

(13:23):
have to humble myself in that regard and say, okay,
we're talking.

Speaker 1 (13:26):
About yourself before you wreck yourself, you know.

Speaker 2 (13:29):
For you wreck yourself. Yeah, absolutely, we're allowed.

Speaker 1 (13:32):
To say it. You know, you're you're right. Though I
have to do that for myself too, because like, if
I don't, then well I have to think about, Okay,
what's the point of me talking about this stuff, right,
Because it's like, if it's not actually changing anybody's mind,
or if nobody's going to do anything differently, then there's
no point to me being mad or or up set

(13:54):
or yelling or whatever right, or being vitriolic. Even if
I'm right, it's not convincing. Right. And that's another thing
I'd say all the time, which I wish people picked
that more, which is like, you can build the most
beautifully structured argument in the world and be absolutely correct,
but if nobody's reading it, nobody cares. Right. But if

(14:16):
you bring to the full level where people care, I
think that's that's how you can meet some folks in
the middle at least. Yeah, you know, we need to
get to some callers here in a second. We got
some folks lined up. I want to talk to us
and lines are open. Folks still, if you want to
talk to us, we have room for you. So come
on in and we'll get to talking to Christina. But
before we get to calls, we got to talk about

(14:36):
our question of the week. Every single week we're asking
you guys a question or a prompt, and we're gonna
have Kelly come on board here to tell us about
last week's question. Hello, Kelly, what's going on?

Speaker 3 (14:47):
Dan, Christina?

Speaker 4 (14:48):
How you doing?

Speaker 2 (14:49):
Kelly?

Speaker 3 (14:51):
Christina? Really seriously, we got some really good answers this week.
Our question last week was if Aliens landed tomorrow, who
should we send as a tour guy? And here are
our top three favorite answers. Number two three from number
three toy boat, toy Boat, toy boat. I can't for
the Aliens should be Sigourney Weaver. Experience handling movie Aliens

(15:15):
is better than none at all, true true, I don't
agree with that. Number two from job for Tuna. If
Aliens came to Earth tomorrow, who would be our tour guide.
It would be David Attenborough. You know that's pretty good.
That's a pretty good.

Speaker 1 (15:33):
Uh story, the American on the side of the street.
I love that. Yeah, that's a good one too.

Speaker 3 (15:46):
And number one from from our perennial answer Chuck Gatos again,
the tour guide for the Aliens should be someone who
knows a lot and will soon have nothing better to do,
like a US evolutionary biology teacher.

Speaker 1 (16:01):
I hate it. I hate that that's real.

Speaker 2 (16:03):
But yeah, I hate that that's real too, biology teacher.

Speaker 1 (16:09):
What are you saying like for people who who will
soon not have much to do?

Speaker 5 (16:13):
Right?

Speaker 4 (16:13):
Like saying?

Speaker 2 (16:16):
I love that?

Speaker 1 (16:17):
I know?

Speaker 3 (16:18):
That was a good one. Really, point and our prompt
for next week is what is the best sci fi religion?
And why damn you an answer?

Speaker 1 (16:29):
I want to know your answer, Kelly, because I know
you got one.

Speaker 3 (16:31):
Walk I you know what, I thought about this a lot,
and I can only think of two of them really
that you know that I did right off the bat,
and one was Dune right kind of just like rehashed Islam, Yeah,
and the other was The Force and Star Wars, which
is kind of just rehashed powers.

Speaker 1 (16:48):
You read my mind. Those were literally my two answers,
so I have nothing to contribute to this conversation. Thank you.

Speaker 2 (16:55):
Kelly.

Speaker 1 (16:56):
Was gonna be like, yeah, the forest right Jedi is Mustaphiah. Okay,
you got both, so.

Speaker 3 (17:00):
I'm gonna go with I'm going to go with the Force.

Speaker 1 (17:03):
Yeah, I think so. To Christina, you got an answer
for this one.

Speaker 2 (17:06):
I don't. I can't. I would be lying to say
like I watched any of the Star Wars, like I
would be teletable face list. Same for Star Trek. Don't
judge me, judge I'm not.

Speaker 1 (17:19):
Better for That's a what an incredible thing in our
culture where somebody has to be like, yeah, I don't
watch Star Wars, don't judge me for instead because I'm not.
I'm not a huge fucking nerd, right, Like amazing, amazing
to turn around on that. But yeah, I'm sure commentaries,
you guys have better answers than all of us, So

(17:40):
leave a common below and we'll pick our best three
next week. Until then, Kelly, thanks so much for coming
on stage with us, and we'll see.

Speaker 2 (17:48):
You later today, Kelly, see you later.

Speaker 1 (17:52):
So that's fine. Yeah, I'm uh, I'm like, this is
a good one. I think because like it's gonna someone
out there is gonna show me, maybe give some comment
on something that I didn't think about as a religion
but could be interpreted as a religion. That's the kind
of comments I'm hoping for. I don't know, like I
want to see some funny stuff from people, but we'll see,
we'll see. Yeah. So before we get to our callers,

(18:15):
because it is time to take some calls, I have
to give a quick shout out to the patrons. I
want to thank everybody that donates to the patreon. And
you know, every single week somebody gets to be Patron
of the week, and this week's patron of the week
is going to be wait for it, Jason, Just Jason.
I love that. Thanks so much, Jason, and thank you
to everybody that donates on the patreon. You guys are awesome.

(18:38):
And that's a funny thing about patroon because it can
be like it could be like a Kitty Assassin nine eight,
or it can just be like Jason, like Okay, yeah,
I love that, no frills, He's very very Jason. Yeah. Okay,
So we have our first call or in qu here,

(18:58):
and I need the call or to correct me here
if it's either Levi or Levy. Not sure, I'm gonna
say Levi I. Levi from Georgia wants to Okay, thanks
to Levi I. Levi I from Georgia here here to
talk to us and want to talk to us about
your reasoning on why God is real. I'd love to
hear it, Levi. I. Welcome to truth wanted.

Speaker 4 (19:17):
Awesome, thank you for having me. So there's a few
points I want to bring up. I'm not sure like
how long y'all get on here. But my reasoning is
rather more of why God does exist rather than why
he like does not exist. And so there's a couple
of points I have brought up here. But are you

(19:38):
ready for me to go ahead and explain them?

Speaker 6 (19:40):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (19:40):
I mean I would say, like, you know, try to
be as brief as you can. Right, Remember, we got
an audience here and you know they want to be
entertained here. Not saying that you know, you should be
funny or anything, but just you know, as brief as
you can will be great.

Speaker 4 (19:53):
Okay. So, well, first, there's the order and complexity of
the universe. So to keep it short, the universe is
precise laws, you know, gravity electromagnetism and fine tune constants,
you know, cosmological constants allow life to exist. The odds
of this happening by chance are astronomically low, you know,

(20:13):
suggesting a purposeful intelligent design.

Speaker 1 (20:17):
Okay, we can start with that point if you want,
because I already have some thoughts about that. Is that
okay with you?

Speaker 2 (20:24):
Okay?

Speaker 5 (20:25):
Oh yeah, yeah yeah.

Speaker 1 (20:26):
So this this idea, you know, a common analogy to
this is called the watchmaker's argument, right, and it's kind
of this idea of like, wow, if you look at
like a watch that's like on the sand, you would
see that it has to be created because you know,
we compare it against its surroundings. Right. You don't just
find a watch like on the sand by itself. It
doesn't just be self made. Somebody had to make that watch, right.

(20:48):
But the thing with that analogy is we are comparing
it to nature, right, because we see a man made
object and we compare it to everything else. And so
that's where that contrast happens. It comes to the physical
laws of the universe. We don't have anything to compare
it to, like that is nature within itself. Every one
of our observations on probability, for example, included come from

(21:13):
those constants being there, So it's it can become a
sort of a self referential thing. We can't even evaluate
the odds of the constants being there without existing in
the universe with those constants. So to me, that kind
of argument is sort of a non starter. It doesn't
mean that God can't be real necessarily, but it does
mean that it kind of evens things out. It doesn't

(21:34):
really point one way or the other for me. Does
that make sense?

Speaker 4 (21:37):
It does? It does? I always just taking more of like,
you know, how can everything come from nothing? Point of view?
You know? But there's a few more points that I
have if.

Speaker 1 (21:48):
Well, if it will yeah, and I'll get we'll listen
that too. And I wanted Christina to jump in, But
I will say to that point, right, when it comes
to arguments from nothing, you could say the same thing
about God. Right, God does isn't any more explainable than
the universe coming from nothing? And I'm not saying I
know where the universe comes from. Okay, I'm not even
saying it has to come from something specifically. It may
just be what it is, but it doesn't give any

(22:10):
more credence to God, right, because God has the same
exact issue at the end of the day. But Christine,
you're not in your head.

Speaker 2 (22:15):
You want to have this because it's like I understand, right,
the universe when we look at nature, it is very intricate, right,
it is very It seems like there had to be something,
a mind, an intelligent mind that created it. But then okay,
what created God? Like where did God come from? And
it almost just but it's just filling in, it's just

(22:38):
filling in the gaps of our what we don't understand
with something because as humans we feel the need to
plug something in there to the space that we don't know.
But like like Dan said, you'll have the God runs
into the same issue.

Speaker 4 (22:50):
Yeah, yeah, well see they say you it's a you know,
a paradox that you know, the universe came from nothing
and everything is just because of a paradox or whatever
it may be. But you know, if you think about it,
we should all just be sitting in a black void,
non existent, just just nothing, just nothing.

Speaker 1 (23:10):
Should why why should we be?

Speaker 4 (23:12):
Right?

Speaker 1 (23:13):
Why why shouldn't we be Yeah?

Speaker 4 (23:15):
Why should we.

Speaker 1 (23:16):
Is it more likely that we would be a black
void versus how we exist? Now tell me how we
figure that out.

Speaker 4 (23:21):
Because simply if you have no laws, no nothing, no rules,
you know how anything reacts to anything like like let's say,
you know, you pour acid on a certain chemical, it
makes another chemical like that. Who made those rules? Why
does that even exist? Why is that even a thing?
In my mind? And well, there has to be some

(23:43):
sort of designer who made the rules, whether it be Aliens,
whether it be God, whether it be you know, a
simulation we're living in. Not exactly sure, but you know
that's just.

Speaker 2 (23:55):
Natural, isn't it. Like if you mix certain chemicals together,
they have a reaction. That's just that happens in nature.
That doesn't speak to the mind of a god or
anything like that. That it doesn't answer that question.

Speaker 1 (24:07):
Yeah, I think the bolster Christina's point. You know, we're
seeing observations, right, but we're not seeing intention or creation.
We're just seeing observations. We're just seeing things as they are.
It could be that things are the way they are
because they're the way they are. There may not have
to be a rhyme or reason, but I see evidence
of things existing every day. I don't see that same

(24:27):
evidence for God or his actions in that every day.

Speaker 4 (24:30):
Okay, I mean, I get where you're coming from. I
don't necessarily, you know, agree with it, but you know,
everybody has their own opinion and they're titled to it.
You know, if I went down my family's testimonies of
you know how you know, lumps just completely disappeared, cancer's
lumps completely disappeared from my family's you know, bodies, whatever

(24:55):
it may be, after prayer. Now, of course this is
not solid evidence, but doctor's have sat there and stated,
we have no idea how this happened, you know, and
things like that that makes me definitely question. You know,
when doctors go, okay, yeah, this was definitely not supposed
to happen. You're supposed to have surgery, but instead it's
completely gone. There's things like that.

Speaker 2 (25:17):
And there is such you know, I'm sorry, Well, there
is a such thing as like spontaneous ormission. Right, so
we know that there are certain things that your body
can go into remission, but when you're under treatment and
things like that, I think we don't leave enough space
to for the for the like the logical conclusion or
the logical intelment there if they're undergoing treatment, if they're

(25:38):
undergoing like for whatever it is even it's not cancer,
but like if it's another disease that there we act
like there aren't medical professionals who are utilizing their skill
and their education and working with our own bodies and
medic medications to help kind of help our bodies heal.
We just give the glory of healing to God. And

(26:01):
again I think we leave a lot of space for
God when the credit and should, if anything, go to
those medical professionals and our own bodies for doing what
we what we do.

Speaker 1 (26:13):
Yeah, an organization, the Templeton Foundation, studied this and they
studied patients who were sick I believe it was cancer
and other things. And they did a control group with
people who were prayed for and who are ostensibly weren't
prayed for the Great.

Speaker 4 (26:28):
Prayer taste and it was yeah, cardio ali, Yeah, the
Great Prayer Study that was based on heart patients with
I believe they had heart surgery and yeah, it didn't
really show any significant differences in the what was it
an outcome? Actually the people who weren't prayed for at
a better outcome unfortunately, right.

Speaker 1 (26:50):
And and some of the some of the speculation for
that was because they felt that people who were being
prayed for, were under a kind of stress or pressure
that was sort of an unburdened for them. Right now,
this is one study, and medical studies, you know, have
to you know, they come. Medical studies are are are
the way they are for a reason. But you know,

(27:10):
it's interesting that you're knowledgeable of that because, I mean, again,
we can point to all kinds of people who also
have had spontaneous remission from cancer who sensibly are atheists.
So since we don't have people that are braying for them,
and they seem to you know, get about as well
as the same rate. The truth is, there's just a
lot but we don't know about cancer and how it works.
But the treatment that we do give to it, you know,

(27:32):
does work when it does, right, I mean, I don't know.
I'm not sure how that leads me to believe that
a god is more or less real. If anything, it
just kind of leads me to leave less right.

Speaker 4 (27:43):
Yeah, I see that. I mean I definitely understand all
points of the arguments, And honestly, I love everybody the same,
you know, atheists or not atheist. Everybody is a human
being and we should also more love to each other.

Speaker 1 (27:56):
So I mean I appreciate that you mean, yeah, but
so I appreciate that you do. It sounds like you
do understand it, but it sounds like you're not convinced
by those arguments. Is there. I'm just curious, is there
a reason why you don't find those arguments convincing.

Speaker 4 (28:09):
Well, there is a few things, and it's just I've
had prayers answered in the right time. I mean, this
is going off of just my heart, not even really
scientifical evidence. But I've I've researched, you know, atheism. I've researched,
you know, because I've almost switched to atheism. I was like, well,
you know, why does anything even make sense? You know,

(28:33):
And so I've I've researched it and all the research,
scientifical research. I don't just research the Bible or whatever.
But every scientific and historical research that I've ever done,
it always leads me to that, you know, there is
a maker, creator of God. He is real, whether we

(28:55):
understand him or not. You know, I just I've tried
had to be an atheists. But you know, whenever you
think about things like the improbability of biochemical assembly, you know,
the odds of a signique or a single functional protein
forming by chance, or about one in ten over one

(29:16):
hundred and sixty four. For you know, one hundred and
fifty amino acid chain from twenty amino acids, with cells
requiring four thousand proteins averaging three hundred amino acids each,
the total probability of life emerging from a biogenically drops
to one in ten over two hundred and eighty two,
far beyond the ten over eighty atoms in the observable universe,

(29:40):
making undirected chemical evolution statistically impossible. So you question things,
I think about what's that?

Speaker 2 (29:49):
Because you brought up a point about God answering your prayers?
You know in time? How has God? Have you ever
prayed in God not answered?

Speaker 4 (29:58):
I have, but I've had many prayers not answered by God.
But I always say before my prayer, God, your will
be done. And if it's not in his will, then
I guess it won't happen.

Speaker 3 (30:10):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (30:11):
So like heads eye when tails you lose.

Speaker 5 (30:14):
What's that?

Speaker 2 (30:15):
So it's like if it does happen. If it does happen,
then God gets the glory. If it doesn't happen, then
it's God's will. So God still gets the glory. How
can you verify that any prayers being answered at all?

Speaker 4 (30:27):
Well, it's it's actually, you cannot verify anything that God does. Now,
whenever you pray to God, you have to you have
to come to God, you know, with your heart, not
a scientific study, not you know, anything like that. You
have to come to prayer with God by your heart.
So there's no way I can prove that he's real.

(30:51):
I can just prove how he's not not real, if
that makes sense?

Speaker 1 (30:55):
Yeah, I see it, Like it's interesting. So like you
can't verify God at all? Is what you're really telling me?

Speaker 4 (31:02):
No, you cannot. You cannot verify that at all. And
I'm a one believer who will sit here and speak
very logical and very scientifically about it. I will not sugarcoat.
I will say there's no way you can prove them.
But you can prove that he's not who he says
he is, that he's that he's not not there. You know.

Speaker 1 (31:23):
Yeah, I hear that. It sounds like you're convinced by
arguments that claim the improbability for atheism. Let's call it.
I don't really like phrasing it that way, but that's
how a lot of Christians tend to phrase it so
to borrow that phraseology, right, It's it's sort of like, well,
these are the odds of God not being a thing.

Speaker 4 (31:40):
Right.

Speaker 1 (31:40):
You gave some examples of that with your interpretation of
a biogenesis, amongst some other facts, right, And so I
tend to, you know, find that kind of curious because
you know, again, talking about probabilities is not something you
can do in a vacuum, right, especially when we're talking
about the odds of you know, protein folding or whatever. Right,

(32:01):
Like that doesn't you know that entirely depends on the
conditions of which something takes place, Right, So the odds
of a protein being created in my jar of peanut
butter is not the same thing as it happening at
the bottom of an ocean and hydrothermal events. Right. So
there's some differences I might have with you there. But
I am kind of in Christina's line of thinking, in
the sense of, if I can't really verify something, if

(32:22):
it's like she put it, you know, head's eye win tails,
you lose sort of situation. It seems that me not
belaving it will kind of give the same effects, right,
So it almost seems like God is going to be there,
whether I'm acknowledging his existence or not, and nothing really
changes otherwise, like just kind of seems like a static

(32:42):
force of the universe, right like gravity.

Speaker 4 (32:45):
Yeah, I can see that. But you know, at the
same time, you have to ask yourself what made gravity?
In gravity is supposedly a theory is you know, Einstein
said that mass binds space and time, so things just
go around the space and time, you know, warpage and
things like that.

Speaker 1 (33:04):
So yeah, you know, I guess I don't know why
gravity has to be made. Why does it have to
be created?

Speaker 4 (33:10):
Well, and I honestly I don't know it has to
be created. But my response to that would be why
is it even there?

Speaker 1 (33:18):
Wow, that's a great question. I can't answer that. I
don't think Christina can either, unless has a doctorate in
physics that I'm not aware of.

Speaker 2 (33:26):
I promise you I do not.

Speaker 1 (33:27):
Okay, yeah, I can't tell you that. But but you
seem to know why it's there, right like, and that's
because of God. And I have no idea why. Well, no,
but you said it's because God made it, right.

Speaker 4 (33:39):
Yeah, God made the laws of the universe, is what
I believe. Because who else would make the laws of
the universe.

Speaker 1 (33:46):
Yeah, I think that's where we're at an impasse, because like,
I don't think laws of the universe have to be made.
I think they can just be there or maybe there's
some other reason. But I don't know why it has
to be the Abrahamic God yahweh specifically, right, Like, there's
nothing that I observe within the laws of physics that say, ah, yes,
that God the same god as Jesus. That guy, he's

(34:07):
the one that you know did all this, and you
know that checks out to me that I have trouble
making that connection.

Speaker 4 (34:13):
Okay, gotcha, Yeah, you know, whenever you you just think
about it, you know, logically, like let's say your room
was empty, right, and nobody ever came to that house,
nobody ever did anything to your room. Your room's just empty, right,
And if there wasn't you involved, your room would always

(34:33):
be empty. There would be no reason for anything to change.
It would just be empty. So you know, that's that's
kind of the thing I'm getting at.

Speaker 1 (34:44):
I don't know why we know that for a fact.
In fact, from what I've read, and Lawrence Krauss is
a problematic guy now, But you know, here's a book
about nothing, right, I think is his book is about,
you know, how how can nothing this? How can everything
come from nothing? And you know his argument is basically, well,
nothingness is sort of unstable, right, And so it's this

(35:05):
idea that even in the things that we think is space,
there's even actually things happening in between particles between you know,
what positive and negative energy can create, and how the
interactions just can exist even without the matter being there. Right,
And so you know, it's obviously above my pay grade. Right,

(35:28):
I'm not exactly the best person to tell you about it,
but you know, all I'm putting out there is that
physicists have some ideas, right. It's not that they're completely
clueless to it, but we don't have absolute ideas. And
I think personally, but I'd rather be in a space
where I can say, well, I'm not sure, but there's
a couple of different ideas and I can figure out

(35:48):
which idea wins best based on evidence, versus just kind
of hitching my wagon to Yeah, I think God did it,
and I don't know how he did it, but I
know God did it. To me, that doesn't seem like
that's the best path forward because I still could be
wrong about that, right, I'm still sort of heading my
bets on an assumption that, as you put it, you
can't verify right, like you can't really prove So I

(36:11):
don't know why I would go down that path.

Speaker 4 (36:14):
Okay, yeah, well look, you have nothing. You have nothing
to lose if you are a Christian.

Speaker 1 (36:20):
Now if you are a I don't know if either. Yeah, yeah,
I mean think about it.

Speaker 4 (36:29):
You're a Christian, you go to heaven. If you're not
a Christian, then you know, you get thrown into eternal damnation.

Speaker 2 (36:35):
So that's yeah, Pascal's wager. But the fact of the
matter is is do you really want to be in
heaven with a guy that you know because you didn't
want me to be your god? Hell with you? Like,
that's not a flex I don't want to sit like,
say it one more time.

Speaker 4 (36:50):
I'm sorry, he actually says, he actually says that you
will go to hell for a short time, not even
a short time, but into the with fire.

Speaker 2 (37:00):
And yeah, this argument is going in the wrong direction, friend,
because the fact of the matter is this, right if
for you to posit God as a loving God who
wants a relationship with me, and and and loves me
so much that he's given me this option to choose.
If I choose not to worship this God and the
other the only other option is torture and punishment for eternity.

(37:24):
Then the fact of the matter is this God does
not want a relationship with me. This God wants me
to be obedient. This God wants a subject someone to
worship him and and and that's just not something I'm
willing to do. I don't think that this god, if
this God were to exist, this God is not a
benevolent god. It's not a good god, right, So I
would not worship this God if it were to exist,

(37:45):
especially when you say that the only other option outside
of lovingly choosing him is to burn for all of eternity.
That's not a God that I want to be associated with.

Speaker 4 (37:54):
I mean, I understand that. Yeah, I honestly I had
the same argument myself. In my mind, I was like, well,
you know, God's gonna throw me in the hill and
make me torture for the rest of my life. How
loving really is he?

Speaker 2 (38:07):
Can I ask you if that's why is that? And
I don't mean to be come off rude, so I
apologize if I do, is that why? No, you are
in a relationship with Christ, with God, with this God,
are you afraid?

Speaker 4 (38:20):
No, it's not that I'm afraid. It's just all the
scientifical and historical evidence. More. Like I said, I've researched
being atheists before.

Speaker 2 (38:31):
And atheist is just a person who doesn't have a
belief in a god or God. So when you say
you've researched atheism, I'm not exactly sure what you mean
by that. We don't have a.

Speaker 4 (38:41):
Doctorate life without a god. I've researched if life is
logically reasonable, you know, without a god existing.

Speaker 1 (38:52):
And so do you think that the scientist well sorry
to interrupt you, but do you think the scientists that
research a biogenesis they would come to your conclusion? They
would say, yeah, actually, this life stuff doesn't make sense,
like it's not reasonable for us to come from evolution,
like you know, cause like i'mah.

Speaker 4 (39:10):
Go ahead, Oh hey, sorry, no, you go ahead.

Speaker 1 (39:13):
Well I'm just saying I because I've looked at what
some of them have had to say and they're pretty
much on my side of the fence, which is, yeah,
this has a source right that seems to be natural
in origin, and every year they're picking it together more
and more of this pieces of how that works. And
I agree with you, the picture is not complete, but

(39:33):
it's more complete now than it was ten, twenty thirty
years ago. And you can actually look at the history
of those ideas and see how much more complete it's
become since people have first started researching this decades ago.
So when you say that you've researched if it's logical
or not, I'm curious as to who's research you're looking at,
because I don't know if it's the people who are

(39:54):
actually doing the work and figuring this out, because they
have a very different conclusion from you.

Speaker 4 (40:00):
Well, you see in the science world a lot of
scientists that they are, you know, proclaiming God or whatever.
You know, they'll get excommunicated from the scientist or science world,
whatever you want to call it, science industry. Nobody will
back them really scientifically, from them or anything.

Speaker 2 (40:20):
Yeah, do you have a source for that?

Speaker 1 (40:21):
I don't know. I'm curious who's being excommunicated.

Speaker 4 (40:25):
I can actually look it up right now. But I've
seen many stories just of you know, scientists in general
claiming God and then being discredited by the science community.
Because the science is kind of like, hey, we believe
in what came to be without God, because if we

(40:46):
believe in God, then you know, I guess we're not
full of scientists. I'm not exactly sure what their thought
process is on that, but I think that's something that
you're positing.

Speaker 2 (40:55):
I don't I don't know that to be the I
don't know that to be the case. In fact, if
you have a source for that that proves that, then fine, right.
But the thing about science is that science is a process.
We are constantly learning new things and relearning and changing
and evolving and watching how things evolve, and constantly using

(41:16):
our scientific method to research and understand the world around us.
And you know, it's such a micro down to a
micro level. But when you speak about a god, your
only evidence is faith itself. Faith is the evidence, right
So there is no there's no evidence that would be
required for you to believe in this god. In fact,
to have this, to posit this belief, you really can't

(41:37):
look for evidence because faith, according to the textas faith
is the evidence right now, faith is the substance of
things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen.
Faith is the evidence itself. So we could show you.
We could show you research and data and archaeological data
and things like that. We could show you that all
day long. At the end of the day, it boils
down to your faith and your belief in a god

(41:59):
because there is no factual or objective evidence for him.

Speaker 4 (42:02):
Well, yes, now if you mentioned things like you know what, regressing,
regressing disease or whatever.

Speaker 1 (42:10):
It may be.

Speaker 4 (42:11):
But first, as we mentioned one scientist who was pretty
much excommunicated, Jonas Kepler was excommunicated. He was a pioneering.

Speaker 1 (42:24):
Astronogy Johannes Kepler.

Speaker 4 (42:26):
Yeah, Johannes Yep, that's correct.

Speaker 1 (42:28):
Yes, well he was a lot of.

Speaker 6 (42:32):
Things, yeah, like I he he had a lot of
different beliefs actually, like he was into like astrology and
some other kinds of stuff too, Like it was more
than just the god stuff that you know, he had.

Speaker 1 (42:46):
Issues with on that. But to be honest with you,
we are over time on this call than what we
usually just I do need to start wrapping some things
up here with you, LEVI. What what I will say
is I find it interesting, you see, to be convinced
by the probability sort of arguments. Something is more probable
or not yeah, and I find that fascinating because again,
I don't know what the probability of a god existing

(43:08):
and doing all his stuff would be, you know, so
I'd be curious to know about that. I think your
arguments kind of rely on the negative probability, which is like, oh, well,
what's the likelihood that God didn't do these things? That
it all happened through natural stuff? And I think if
you look at what folks have been doing in a
biogenesis research, you would see you'd be surprised at the

(43:30):
amount of explanations that are found within that science, especially
today in twenty twenty five, and seeing how much we
actually do know about the early periods of life and
how we've got here to this point because you know,
they're not saying what you might be thinking that they're
saying there. But I'm going to leave it at that
because we got to let you go. Levi. I thanks

(43:50):
so much for calling in. I hope you can call
in some other time. Yeah, have a great weekend.

Speaker 4 (43:56):
Yeah, I actually had a great time. Business for having
me fantastic. Let me just say one last thing, and
it's not that I'm you know, negative about the whole thing.
It's just more of a logical, logical sensing, you know,
like I hear you, if there wasn't a God, then
it's not even about life at this point. It's about

(44:17):
the entire universe. Why do we even exist? Why are
we even here? We shouldn't be anything at all?

Speaker 1 (44:23):
Well, we got to take it one topic out of time, right,
But you know, those are all great questions that I
don't know the answers to myself, to be honest with you,
but I'm not convinced that Christianity necessarily gives you those
answers either. But like I said, you know, we gotta
leave it, let it go. Thanks again, LEVI for calling.
Hope you can call in again at some other time.

(44:44):
So that was an extending conversation. But I thought that
was pretty good. What you think.

Speaker 2 (44:48):
I enjoyed the conversation. I really do, And I can't
say that I get it right because I honestly just
don't care. Like when we talk about like how we
got here, but how did we get here? I don't
know kind of how I got here and know how
baby's gay, you know what I mean? But I don't. Yeah,
I don't care how the universe started. I had nothing
to do I wasn't there, right, And I think sometimes

(45:10):
we can we harp on that to speak to like
how almighty this God is in this belief. But when
we drilled, like we try and make this practical, he's
like nowhere to be found. So it's like you can
do all this this intricate detail in creating the universe,
but it can't feed starving children.

Speaker 1 (45:27):
That's just you know, right, we talk so much about
how the cancer remission occurs, and we don't talk about
how much the cancer started in the first right, right, right, Yeah,
it kind of cuts both ways, and you know, it
always comes I find the cancer stuff. It's funny because
you know, all the other diseases that we've figured out
vaccines for or other you know, greater treats for, you know,

(45:50):
that stuff, we can explain that. But the cancer stuff,
now that's a mystery, right, And it's because, yeah, we're
at the limits of our scientific knowledge. That's why history,
that's why we think God's doing something with it. I
don't know, like do what a Christian think that they
didn't get polio because God prevented for them or because
they got the polio vaccine. I don't know, like at
that point. It's right, it's a bit trivial, but with

(46:12):
the answer when there's only limited treatment options, right, somehow
God's in the mix of God. Yeah, yeah, I don't know,
but yeah, a lot of different points. We can go
down a bunch of rabbit holes of that conversation. I
think it's probably best that we move on at this point.
But before we keep moving on, just reminder, folks, we
still have open lines if you want to come talk

(46:33):
to us. We want to talk to as many people
as we can today, so please jump on into the
queue and we'll be happy to talk with you. One
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(46:55):
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(47:18):
So go check that out if you want to hang
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(47:40):
So we're going to switch over to the crew camp
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everybody that supports the show. You guys are amazing for that.
For now, let's keep this moving. I want to talk
to Lane, calling in from Louisiana. We are taking a
hard turn here, Christina. Lane wants to talk to us

(48:03):
about the drones that happened last year. Do you remember this.
There was a whole drone frenzy that was going on. Okay,
I told you this was a hard turn here, Lane,
What what about the drones? Do you want to talk
to us about Let's hear it.

Speaker 7 (48:17):
Good evening to everyone. But so what I wanted to
talk about was it was around this time last year
the UFO communities started, you know, catching on with the oh,
there's drone sitans everywhere, mostly in the US around coastal cities.
And then everybody started to recognize, like slowly realized that
they were drones and stuff. And someone who was running

(48:41):
for election was like, oh, once I get in there,
I'm going to tell everybody what it is. And then
you know, he got in there, and then I don't
know if y'all remember, he just kind of came out
and was like, oh, we know what that was, don't
worry about it, and then it kind of died off.
So but it wasn't just the US. It was all
over the Atlantic Ocean and some places in the Pacific,

(49:02):
Like there was there were sightings in Lagos, there were
sightings in the UK, there were sighting in Spain, all
these different places. I mean there was, uh and mostly
in port cities. And so my theory is somebody lost
the nuke. You look, ok, where the drones were, so
where these drones were flying, Like if you look on
the FA website you can see certain places that are

(49:26):
no fly zone, and there was a higher number of
no fly zones than usual during that time, like when
all this was happening. And so that's just kind of
I think someone lost the nuke. It's happened before. It
could have been Russia with the war in Ukraine, but
that's just my theory.

Speaker 2 (49:45):
They lost a nuke and they sent the drones.

Speaker 1 (49:48):
Yeah, I'm I'm a little lost on that too. How
did the drones factor into them?

Speaker 7 (49:53):
Okay, so it was port seed. I think that it
was lost at sea. Nukes have been lost at sea
before that. In fact, that's how they found the wreck
of the Titanic.

Speaker 1 (50:01):
Okay, But like the drones, when that stuff was going on,
it was like people living in cities that were seeing
it that like yeah, there were port cities, but they
weren't seeing it like over the ocean. They were seeing
it like in between the buildings and right.

Speaker 7 (50:15):
Yeah, well yeah, but if you find a new where
you're going to bring it.

Speaker 1 (50:19):
Well yeah, and so that's what the drones were guarding
the nukes. I'm a little confused. I'm being honest. I'm
not trying to be.

Speaker 7 (50:27):
Like uh, the local the local governments of whatever country
it was in. We're scanning around port cities looking for,
you know, suspicious activity. During this time, they.

Speaker 1 (50:42):
Were scanning for suspicious activity via drones, right, Okay, way
cheaper than running a than running like a reconnaissance craft.

Speaker 2 (50:51):
So you think someone took the drone, like.

Speaker 1 (50:55):
Took the nuke, I mean someone.

Speaker 2 (50:57):
Took You think someone took someone took the new.

Speaker 1 (51:00):
And you think that they were looking for it with
drones were covered by someone, right, But they were I
think it was specifically they were like monitoring areas just
in case.

Speaker 7 (51:10):
And once again, I'm not one hundred percent that it
was at sea. It could have been, you know, just
somebody misplaced one because it's happened before. And they were
like all these local governments were just basically on a
scramble to try to find this thing without telling us.
But everyone noticed. It's like, oh crap, there's a bunch
of drones flying around. What's going on?

Speaker 1 (51:31):
Okay, that's an idea, Lane, I have an idea about
what this could be. Now when we talked about this,
we talked about this a lot on the show. Actually, well,
there's a lot of people calling in about it during
the events last year. I remember this, so I had
to dig into this a little bit, and from what
I remember, you're right, the FAA came out and said, hey,
this is nothing to worry about or whatever, or we're

(51:51):
looking into it, and nothing really came of it. It
just kind of died away. I think that Lane this
is an example of a little bit of mass hysteria.
I think some people got some drones out and we're
flying around and somebody got confused, and people always get
confused about what's going on in the sky, and then
that encouraged some people to freak out online. And then
some people saw those people freaking out online and they're like, oh, yeah,

(52:13):
I have a drone, Maybe I should go and take
it out tonight, right, or like, hey, let's freak some
people out right, And it's kind of spurs more people on.
Kind of like a couple of years ago, bro like
ten years ago, when everybody was talking about killer clowns, right,
there was like a whole clown thing going on on
the side of the road that Yeah, so you know,
I think something's happening similar here with the drones. Now

(52:33):
I don't This is the first i've heard about drones
appearing overseas because as far as I remember, this was
the mostly American commendam. But I'm not I wouldn't be
surprised if other people kind of got the idea to
take out their drones and people just saw them and
got a little confused and a little hysterical.

Speaker 7 (52:48):
I mean, that's totally possible. I don't know. My reason
for the nuke thing is because of the no fly
zone specifically, but yeah, no, that's a perfectly like so
you have to remember, like, so the war in Ukraine
is on the forefront of new warfare, and a lot
of this new warfare entails drones, and so there has

(53:11):
been a explosion, if you will, in a drone technology,
and so yeah, governments are going to use this, right
And like, I'm not saying the drones are aliens. I'm
just saying something there was.

Speaker 1 (53:25):
I would hope not, but yeah, I hear you, I'm listed.

Speaker 7 (53:30):
Yeah, I'm just saying there was an influx, and I'm
more suspicious about it, if you will, Okay, Okay, Yeah,
the new thing's probably a stretch, but I don't I mean,
if nothing else it is, it is something of a
mass surveillance and testing thing by governments, for sure.

Speaker 2 (53:48):
Have they seen more drones? Like are the drones gone?

Speaker 7 (53:51):
Well, I think people are more used to them now.

Speaker 2 (53:54):
But they're still around, Like are peoples are they still
drone sightings?

Speaker 7 (53:57):
Well, I live in a I live in the larger
city and Louisiana and the local PD uses them.

Speaker 1 (54:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (54:04):
So it's not like the mystery drones from last year.

Speaker 7 (54:08):
Well yeah, well it's because people didn't know what they were.
Like I said that they started popping up, like really
getting traction on the UFO forums at first.

Speaker 1 (54:16):
Yeah, yeah, but.

Speaker 7 (54:17):
Then you know, as it continued, everyone figured out that
it was like, oh, these are drones.

Speaker 1 (54:22):
Yeah I remember this lane. I don't know if you're
watching at the time, but again, we talked about this
a lot when this happened last year, because it was
it was all over the place. But yeah, I think
this happens. And this was in the UFO stuff before
too though, right where it's like, oh, suddenly there's a
trending topic within the UFO stuff, specifically the drone stuff.
So this was like especially hot and suddenly people are

(54:42):
looking up more, you know, and now they're noticing drones
that were probably there, but they didn't think we're there,
you know, because but as far as I've heard, and
maybe you're seeing data, I'm not. But I didn't see
a lot of hard data that suggested that there was
any reports of official reports or otherwise counting drones or giving
a definitive answer as to like what was going on there.
Because videos are kind of anecdotal, right, Like you can

(55:04):
get videos and you know, it may seem like a lot,
but it may be just the same number of drones.
It's just more people are taking videos of them, right,
so you know, you know how these things work, right,
it gets kind of lost in the sauce a little bit,
you know.

Speaker 7 (55:17):
Yeah, for sure, for sure.

Speaker 1 (55:19):
Yeah, I wouldn't start bringing nukes into it unless I
had real good reason to believe it was nukes. I
will say that.

Speaker 7 (55:24):
You know, man, we've lost them before. I don't know.
I mean, yeah, I know that that's a stretch. But weird,
weird things have happened.

Speaker 1 (55:33):
With I guess like you should have been if people
had their Geiger counters out, We're like, hey, this may
say it's more nuke stuff going on. I know that's
how it works.

Speaker 7 (55:42):
But some nuclear material in Australia sometime last year.

Speaker 1 (55:46):
Yeah, I can't tell you that now. That one was Aliens,
actually I think, yeah, well I don't. I don't know
what else money on this one, other than maybe it
was lost nuke. I'm still sticking with this was kind
of a social media event for the most part. I
haven't seen much else to suggest otherwise. I have looked

(56:07):
into it since then. But yeah, I hear you. Anything
else you want to have before we let you go?

Speaker 7 (56:12):
Uh no, I'll call back in and talk about dead
internet theory.

Speaker 1 (56:17):
Oh yeah, no, that's a that's that's a good one. Actually,
that's one conversation we need to have. I would appreciate that.

Speaker 7 (56:24):
For a while, and with AI, it's just becoming more
and more obvious.

Speaker 1 (56:28):
Okay, Yeah, I have a lot of thoughts about dead
internet stuff. But maybe maybe a different time we can
talk about Elane. Otherwise, I'll let you go right now,
and you have a great rest of your Friday. Thanks
so much for calling and really appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (56:40):
Yeah, So there you go, Internet.

Speaker 1 (56:43):
Yeah, you know, you know about dead internet theory. No,
so well, it's kind of so like popular culture has
kind of ruined the original understanding of the idea. But
the original idea is sort of like, well, when we
go online, we can't really verify whether people that are
posting our humans or not. Right, as the growth of AI,
you know, becomes more and more sophisticated, it becomes harder

(57:05):
to tell. And so we do have a lot of
evidence that shows that bots are posting now more than ever.
In fact, the last thing I saw was that we're
getting close to about fifty percent of all content posts
online being automatic or being by automated posts. Right, so
that can include like advanced stuff like AI chatbots, or
it can include like you know, some other technology, but
not like directly human. So dead Internet theory is this

(57:27):
idea that no, the Internet is all becoming sort of
just bots, and that we're not really talking to people
at all. Like a lot of people that we know
online are just not real people. And so that's that's
kind of though the real Yeah, well, I mean, you know,
like I remember when like Microsoft first released their first
online Twitter bot and she said some racist stuff and

(57:51):
they took it offline immediately. Yeah, and so but now
it's like, oh, that's just all of Twitter now, you
know about That's yeah, that's true. Yeah, so like, there's
definitely been evidence too, and you know people have talked
about Russian disinformation campaigns in the s using AI to
post on posts, you know, and to start arguments and stuff,

(58:13):
and it's probably not just Russia too, right, So yeah,
you know.

Speaker 2 (58:17):
They see it all the time to sow dissension and
things like that. It's a it's a tool, and I
think you can remember that that this is a tool
even when we get really excited for going like about
like chat GBT and like different AI platforms and stuff
like that. These are tools that can be used and manipulated,
and you know, they're learning based off of the information

(58:38):
that is getting to them.

Speaker 1 (58:40):
So you know, this is a side tangent. But I
was on Reddit and somebody was complaining about their mom
kept sending them these videos of this Twitter account that
was posting like ring camera footage of babies getting into
dangerous situations. For example, one of them was a baby
being left out in front of a bear and a

(59:01):
dad was putting a baby on top of an alligator
to ride in front of this ring camera. And of
course the sound Atlantas because they were fake, right, they're
like AI generated videos. But of course like that he
had to explain that person's mom that doesn't know the difference,
and it's like, wow, we're, you know, of a generation
where we're online like every day probably if you're like
anything like me, so like I'm better at it probably

(59:23):
than the person that doesn't go online that often. But
even then it's still kind of hard sometimes.

Speaker 2 (59:27):
I'm still I was.

Speaker 1 (59:29):
Like, yeah, what are we gonna do in five years,
ten years from now? I don't know. We have to
have some sort of policy to get that stuff figured out, right,
Like how are we gonna do it? I don't know.
I don't know. But changing course once again, we're we're
flipping sales here, Christina. Bet you bet you didn't expect
the kind of calls.

Speaker 2 (59:49):
I did not expect so far. Then the nuke drone aliens, Yeah,
that was that was fun.

Speaker 1 (59:57):
I didn't expect that either, but you know, that is
the fun of truth wanted.

Speaker 2 (01:00:01):
I still want to know, like, like, how did the
new go missing?

Speaker 1 (01:00:04):
Well, so he is right where we've lost like armaments
and stuff before, right, So that's that's been the thing
which you think we wouldn't lose stuff, but apparently we do.
So anyway, Yeah, I don't know. That's for that's for
a history podcast. That's not. Moving on from that, Let's

(01:00:25):
get to John from Canada, who wants to talk to us. John,
you are live on truth wanted. What's going on? John?
I'm doing great? How can I help?

Speaker 5 (01:00:35):
Want to induce myself to your partner? Carol?

Speaker 2 (01:00:41):
Hi?

Speaker 1 (01:00:41):
Wow, that's very very formal. If John's called into the
show before, John, John used to be a Christian and
is now no longer Christian, and so he's been calling
about that, and so John, I think you want to
talk about something in that same vein.

Speaker 5 (01:00:57):
Yeah as well, I know. Okay, I'm generally asking what
genuine curiosity. Can you please explain sexuality to me? Because
I really do not get it?

Speaker 1 (01:01:10):
Okay, So when you say explain homosexuality to you, that's
a very broad topic. Do you mean like how do
human how are human beings homosexual? Like? Is that what
you mean?

Speaker 5 (01:01:23):
Well? That's me. I just can't understand how two people
say sex can be a tiny each other especially.

Speaker 2 (01:01:29):
That's that wouldn't be for you to understand belove it
because you're not. If you're if you're a heterosexual man
who's attracted to a person of the opposite sex. You
wouldn't understand. That's not for you to understand.

Speaker 1 (01:01:41):
M h yeah. I mean, like, if your brain's not
wired that way, it's just not a feeling or an
interest that you're going to have, right and and and truthfully,
a lot of people who identify as gay, you know,
it's not one hundred percent for them all the time.
That's why we have a label of bisexuality and those.

Speaker 2 (01:01:57):
Other kinds of like, I can't you know, I can't
speak to anyone else's experience mental scapes is at my own.
I can't help you understand that any more than I
could help a gay man or a lesbian woman understand
the feeling or the mind of someone who is a heterosexual,
you know, a heterosexual person.

Speaker 1 (01:02:18):
Does that make sense?

Speaker 5 (01:02:18):
John? But I still don't want to send as a male.
I just can't see myself being a mal I just can't.

Speaker 1 (01:02:26):
Do it right.

Speaker 2 (01:02:27):
And I don't expect you to be able to because
you're not a gay man.

Speaker 1 (01:02:30):
I mean, John, I'm assuming John. You know, I don't
know your sexuality, right, and maybe that's something you're exploring
for yourself. That's fine. I don't need to know your business.
But like I'm going to presume that you like women
or you have like women in the past. Right, Can
you imagine explaining that to somebody and how that works? Right,
because to you that just seems natural. Right, That's just
kind of the way it is. And for people who

(01:02:51):
identify as gay, how they like people is just how
they like people, right, It's just the way it is.
There's nothing really to explain about it, right, It's just
how they are.

Speaker 5 (01:03:00):
I don't know how if I see Okay, if I
see a man who looks good, I'm gonna say, Okay,
that's a handsome matt. I will say that, but but
I like it. I just don't feel like putting my
hands on them.

Speaker 1 (01:03:10):
That's fine. It's not possible for you, right, but it's
possible for other people.

Speaker 5 (01:03:15):
Right, that's possibly you need a man, but you need
a male and female to come together.

Speaker 1 (01:03:21):
Oh so you mean like evolutionarily, how that's possible the case, Well,
that's an interesting subject. That's that's separate from this conversation.
But like you know, to kind of uh give a
a bird's eye view on the topic, homosexuality is not
something that's exclusive to people, right. It's it's important to
point that out if we've observed that kind of behavior

(01:03:42):
in all kinds of animals, birds, bees, you know, you
name it, it's it's it's been out there. And of
course nowadays you see it's politely talked about, but that's
always been observed and and and and studies that are
older than both of us. Right, So it happens, right,
Why why it happens? We may not know the intricacies
of people have different ideas of it, but it doesn't

(01:04:05):
really matter on the why at this point, right, It
just it's important to know that it does happen. Right.
When we're Christians, we tend to think of these things
in terms of moral judgments, because we want to know
why things happen, to see if it's like, you know,
a good or a bad thing, but it's not a
good or a bad thing. It's just the way things are,
right of yeah, yeah, speak to that, Christina.

Speaker 2 (01:04:27):
It is just a thing. And like you said, we
try to look at things through the lens of Christianity
and try to make it make sense at more morally
based off of the morals of the Bible. And I
think that is that is that is challenging in and
of itself. When we're talking about morality in the Bible, right,
But it's not an I don't want to confuse the

(01:04:48):
matter itself, but it's not something that you're going to understand, right,
the sexuality of a person that doesn't identify the same
with it you identify, and you're not supposed to right.
But if you're looking at it from a moral standpoint,
whether it's right or wrong or something like that, the
Bible is used to demonize the members of the lgbt

(01:05:11):
q I A plus community. But if you posit that,
and I won't dive into the scriptures about whether this
means this or this means that. But if you posit
God to have created all things, then God created the
members of the l g b t q I A
plus community as well. And he created all things.

Speaker 4 (01:05:26):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:05:27):
And in that he said it was good. So I'm
good as far as I'm concerned with or without God.
But I think you have to leave room for that.

Speaker 5 (01:05:34):
I follows still a question I would say that, I guess.
I guess A question would say that the whole sexuality
is a deviation goes purpose and that's the reason why
he destroys the world. But you just told me that
animals are gay, which means that if that story is true,
that we killed the animals.

Speaker 1 (01:05:51):
Yeah, that would be a Christian way of looking at
and you and hopefully you see why that way is flawed, right,
do you know, do you see how that's flawed or
do you find that can vincing? Still?

Speaker 5 (01:06:00):
John, Well, just not realize a contraception a question would
say that that humans and animals are two completely different
creatures and one is not the other. Also, but in
the same practical to say that the animals are sinners
like they want they want, they.

Speaker 1 (01:06:18):
Want to that's true, John, yep, And you know something
and and you know, and I know that you're still deconstructing,
you're still figuring stuff out on all this. But Christians
tend to have a hierarchy in gender and also in
the relationship with animals. So Christina alluded to this earlier.
But men are basically, for all intents and purposes above

(01:06:40):
women in most respects when it comes to Christianity, right, Like,
they'll pretend like it's different, and you know, but you know,
they really are, uh sorry, they'll pretend like it's the same.
They'll pretend like they're equal. But in all intents and purposes,
they really aren't. Right. And one of the reasons why
Christianity demonizes homosexuality in the way that it does is
because homosexuality actually challenges that norm in a very particular way, right,

(01:07:03):
Because homosexuality challenges by its nature gender norms, so specifically
gender norms that Christianity has tried to enforce. Right. And
so when you realize, oh, a man can be with
another man and they can be happy and be fine
and be good people. Or a woman could be with
another woman in the same way, or people there can
be people in you know, poly relationships and also be fine. Right,

(01:07:27):
when you start to challenge that structure in that hierarchy,
it delegitimizes Christianity, right, It delegitimizes them as an authority, right,
as Christianity as being important to someone's life or somebody
that they should be listening to, right as a topic.
And I'm talking about the church broadly, but I'm also
talking about like Christianity culture right, as like informing people's

(01:07:49):
like worldview. So you know, that's why Christians harp on
this stuff so much. And sometimes it's personal, right, and
it really is bigotry. And sometimes I don't even think
it's like a personal bigotry. I just think it's people
perpetuating a structure of oppression. That yeah, that that like

(01:08:09):
they don't even realize that they're a part of that,
they're supported. Does that make sense, John, I know I
got a little heady there.

Speaker 5 (01:08:15):
It does make sense. And Okay, I said if if
someone is gay, that's their business. I just found it weird.
But as for men being ahead of women or above women, uh,
I agree. I agree with that in a relationship, the
man should be in charge. The woman is in part.
The woman is important, but the man should be ahead
of the house.

Speaker 1 (01:08:33):
Oh, John, okay, we still have some stuff we got
to work on, my friend, because we can't leave you
with that right? Well, wait, can we talk about that?
Why do you think a man should be in charge
of relationship with a woman.

Speaker 5 (01:08:43):
Oh, he's the he's the strong, he's the strong one,
he who takes the risk.

Speaker 1 (01:08:47):
Does that mean he's a strong one, he's one takes risks.
We're not living we're not living in caves.

Speaker 2 (01:08:51):
John, is the bears?

Speaker 4 (01:08:54):
John?

Speaker 1 (01:08:54):
I work from home. I go, I sit in front
of a computer for eight hours to day. John, Like,
what am I doing. That's more important than what my
wife's Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:09:06):
Okay, well, okay, Dan, I am I muted.

Speaker 1 (01:09:09):
No, you're not muted.

Speaker 5 (01:09:10):
Go ahead, okay, Dan. If a war were to break out,
I guarantee who in a little war, it's going to
be the men. If there'll be the one that got
to defend this country from an.

Speaker 1 (01:09:19):
There's women serving in our military right now. Yeah, what
do you mean?

Speaker 5 (01:09:23):
Yeah, but the bets are the best suited to the
war because we're paid for that.

Speaker 1 (01:09:27):
Okay, Well, let's let's talk less about the last student.
That's a that's a whole other thing with its whole implications.
I want to focus in on this. I want to
focus in on this. Men are should be in charge
of a relationship, because let's say that's true. Let's say
that men are just purpose built for war. What does
that have to do with people's individual relationships?

Speaker 5 (01:09:44):
Okay, here it is. You agree that if any two
people are going to work together, this is to be made.
There has to be a consensus.

Speaker 1 (01:09:51):
Correct, Yes, I do agree with you, hear that, Christina?
I think I think so.

Speaker 2 (01:09:55):
I agree.

Speaker 5 (01:09:56):
So if each person in the group wants to do
their own thing, there'll be no consensus, what happens, someone
has to make the decision. That's what we have leaders,
I guarantee. I know for a fact that in your
in your organization, you have a leader, which is assuming
it's not so. There has to be a leader in
a family. That has to be a leader. And it
makes sense that the leader should be the man because
he's the one. Hey, he's doing the hard work, he's

(01:10:17):
bringing home the money. If there's a danger, he's the
one to go go out and deal with n and
John as the official head of the family. You can't
have two people.

Speaker 1 (01:10:26):
John, I donna have a secret. I'm gonna tell you secret.
Justin to me, John, I'm gonna tell you a secret.
You want a secret. My wife makes more money than
I do. You know what in the house that I'm
living in.

Speaker 5 (01:10:38):
Right now, Actually you're actually a millionaire on on air, Dan,
I have nothing.

Speaker 1 (01:10:44):
Why would I have anything to be ashamed of? John?
Why why would I I live a great life. And
you know, and and and by the way, I'm I'm
not like and I know people who who live this
way too, And that's fine. I'm not a house husband.
I work myself. We both work. But my wife makes
more money than I do in the house that right now,
I I help pay for it. But it's in her name.
The mortgage is in her name. I have no shame

(01:11:06):
about that. Tell me, why should I be ashamed about that? John?

Speaker 5 (01:11:09):
Because you then.

Speaker 1 (01:11:13):
Why? But John, I am incredibly happy with my relationship.
Believe me, I love my wife, It's great. Why should
I be ashamed or feel unhappy with the way things are?

Speaker 5 (01:11:23):
Because if to take advantage of you?

Speaker 1 (01:11:26):
But that's true, If I that's what is that?

Speaker 2 (01:11:28):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:11:28):
I'm talking a lot Christian, Go ahead, No.

Speaker 2 (01:11:30):
I just it's just this warped idea of what partnership
is and what relationship is. And I can't help but
tie it back to the fact that a lot of
people who are believers in starting to deconstruct don't understand
what a healthy relationship is because they've been in a
very vertical, one sided relationship with this God who has
told them that love is equal to obedience, and it's not,

(01:11:53):
in fact the case. A relationship and partnership and coming
to a consensus and understanding and make decisions, those are
partnerships things. I mean, you're in a relationship and just
because someone is stronger at one thing or you know
that that's that's nonsense and it needs to write along
with this book be tossed into the anals of history,
and we need to move forward. We can't continue to

(01:12:14):
keep going around this. This is twenty twenty five. Eggs
are a million dollars, right, like, we are trying to
work through it, and a lot of families are really
just bunkering down and trying to make the best decisions
that they can for themselves. So if we're both working, right,
I'm a single mother, right, I have two children. I'm

(01:12:35):
I'm a one man bandman.

Speaker 5 (01:12:36):
You should you should have a partner, Christina. You need
a partner. You need a male.

Speaker 1 (01:12:40):
Partner, John? Why?

Speaker 6 (01:12:41):
Why?

Speaker 1 (01:12:42):
Why does Christina need a male partner? Give me one
good reason?

Speaker 5 (01:12:45):
More because she needs you can't have a hold ourselves.

Speaker 1 (01:12:48):
Plus John, Okay, pardon my French. How the fuck do
you know that? How the fuck you know you just
met this You don't even met this woman. You've heard
her voice online for ten minutes and you already know
her life situation?

Speaker 7 (01:13:00):
Though?

Speaker 1 (01:13:01):
Are you talking about? John?

Speaker 5 (01:13:02):
Get you a man, Christina?

Speaker 1 (01:13:07):
Yeah? Yeah? Why? First of all, why is that your
fucking business? Telling her how she should be living her life.
But second of all, why does she need a man?

Speaker 5 (01:13:16):
Why why she was I didn't say that.

Speaker 2 (01:13:20):
I also didn't say that I needed a man or
I was looking for a man or. When I said
I'm a one man bandman, I meant that I had
my bills. I take care of my children. I get
them where they need to go. I take care I
have friendships I have I'm a sister, I'm a daughter,
I'm a lot of things. I can do it all
the fuck by myself. I don't need anyone to do

(01:13:41):
a goddamn thing.

Speaker 1 (01:13:42):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:13:43):
What I like some help listen and taking applications if
you want to, just anyway, But seriously, I don't need
I don't need a man to make me happy, to
make me money, to make me food, to make me anything.

Speaker 1 (01:13:56):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:13:56):
If I have a partner, that's one thing. But if
I don't, I've got this.

Speaker 5 (01:14:00):
See that's the sussed that attitude that's just joined the
American family feel differently, Carol, A lot of women out
there having survey that they have careers, but they but
they missed having a man and a family.

Speaker 1 (01:14:10):
They feel that's sad for those women. If you ask
Christina if you just heard her, sounds like she's doing
just fine. Right, you're making a big generalization here.

Speaker 5 (01:14:22):
You might you might change your mind. Dan five years,
you might not feel the same.

Speaker 1 (01:14:26):
And John, I really hope you change your mind in
five years that actually, because.

Speaker 2 (01:14:30):
That's like, that's a lot of this, it's like seething
with misogyny, and I don't I hate that for us.
I hate that the patriarchy has has like is the
way that it is.

Speaker 5 (01:14:40):
But I hate this idea of patriarchy. Might a woman
are partners? We should be looking together.

Speaker 1 (01:14:45):
We made But John, what you described her now, yeah,
what you described us now is not a partnership. You
said a man should be in charge and make decisions
regardless of you know, what other people think. Which is
which is not a partnership. That's not consenting. I don't
need to be with my relationship with my wife. It
doesn't have to be one person making all the decisions.
We can make all of our decisions mutually and that's fine.

(01:15:08):
There's nothing the man centric about that.

Speaker 5 (01:15:10):
Okay, And what if what if you want one thing
your wife wants the other, what are you going to do?

Speaker 1 (01:15:14):
Well, we figure it out and that's life.

Speaker 2 (01:15:17):
That's all it is. Life is a bunch of decisions
that you have to make. If you have a partner,
y'll making them together. If you're by yourself, you're making
them on your own. That we keep over complicating some
of these things, like you gotta go to work together
or you're not. If you have a partner that supports you,
and y'all are growing together and it works out great.
If not, and you got the wrong partner, find another one.

Speaker 1 (01:15:36):
Yeah, and John, I'll tell you what I'm not going
to do. I'm not going to say, well, wife, I'm
the man, and therefore we need to go with what
I'm going to do, because that's stupid. That's just dumb.
That's not a good way to live life.

Speaker 2 (01:15:48):
It's like if the wife is a tax.

Speaker 5 (01:15:52):
You told me, you told me, I'm going to tell
you a secret. Women they soon you like it. They
love it when a man takes charge. They've they've said that, John.

Speaker 1 (01:15:59):
Yeah, yeah, John, you sound like a real You sound
like you're real good with the ladies. Man. I'm sure
they're all over you, dog like. Yeah, it's not.

Speaker 5 (01:16:08):
I'm glad we agree that anyway, I beg I had
to go because speaker will.

Speaker 1 (01:16:14):
I think, I think that's a good idea. John, I'm
going to let you go. Good luck in your relationships
with people because you certainly need it. Okay, I hope
you think about this conversation and realize, uh, this is
not a good path.

Speaker 2 (01:16:28):
Dee, deconstructing friend, Keep deconstructed.

Speaker 1 (01:16:32):
John, John John John.

Speaker 2 (01:16:35):
Lord, twenty twenty five. What is happening?

Speaker 1 (01:16:37):
Well, you know, we've talked to John several times, and
I'm honest for Steina, we've made progress with John on
other fronts. Obviously, he I mean, he is not a Christian.
Now you heard him.

Speaker 2 (01:16:46):
Say it, right, right, right. But that's the other thing.
I've had this conversation before too, Like people oftentimes when
we talk about deconstructing, Yes, people are deconstructing, but what
are you deconstructing? We take before early while I say
I'm still deconstructed because I have to constantly change my
mind about things and really sit and evaluate things, investigate
my own biases and things like that. But some people aren't.

(01:17:08):
Some people are only deconstructing the text itself and trying
to figure out that aspect of it. And so I
often say that there are a lot of atheist bigots.
There are a lot of atheists, misogynists, there are a
lot of atheists. Homophobes there are there are a lot
of a lot of them. And until we recognize that

(01:17:28):
our lens is skewed and we need to really re
evaluate everything this first determined you know, is this really
how I feel about it? And if you are that person,
then fine, be that person, but deconstruct please.

Speaker 1 (01:17:40):
Yeah, Like, and this isn't the only problematic ideas I've
talked about with John here, And I like, John, if
you're still listening, I know you've made some progress on
some other stuff, and I'm happy for you there, but
this is one that's got to go sooner rather than later, man,
because that's affecting your personal life, first of all, if
you have that attitude of people, because people obviously don't

(01:18:01):
like it. But like, I also would encourage you, if
you're still listening, to think about what Christina is saying here,
and especially in ties to patriarchy with Christianity as well.
Like I talked to I alluded to this earlier. What
we both allude to this that Christianity enforces both implicitly
and explicitly gendered norms right, and I think like your

(01:18:22):
worldview right now, I'm if I'm going to bet the
farm that it's because of Christianity more than anything else,
based on what I know about you. John, Well, we've
talked about before, because that's not something that happens like
in a vacuum, that comes from culture informing you about
how you should feel about something and how you should
think about something. But I know if they're my relationship

(01:18:43):
with people, that that kind of thinking isn't great and
is gonna be harmful in the end. And so I
hope that you can kind of think about that and
maybe reflect on that before we come back to it,
because I'm not gonna let anybody call it and tell
my guests that they need to find the man. That's ridiculous,
Holy shit, John.

Speaker 2 (01:19:03):
Why people see me, They're like, she needs a man,
you know what a problem is? She needs She's a
nice girl, but she needs a man.

Speaker 1 (01:19:12):
Terrible. I think John needs to go go talk to
some people, go see how that works in the real
world and see what happens there. But anyway, Christina, thanks
so much for being on today's show. I hope you
have fine, great God good good If people want to
find you. Where should they go?

Speaker 2 (01:19:31):
Go to TikTok. I'm on TikTok Monday, Wednesday and Friday.

Speaker 4 (01:19:34):
I'm live.

Speaker 2 (01:19:36):
We have great conversations just like this all day, so
make sure that you follow me there. I also have
a podcast I'll take It from Here with Christina Carroll,
which kind of follows me through my deconstruction. I had
different series where I do like Bible stories and things
like that, but it's growing, it's evolving, and we're just
having a good time with it.

Speaker 1 (01:19:56):
Awesome, awesome, Yes, go check that out if you want
to see more of Christina and the stuff that she's doing.
I want to give a special thank you again to
everybody watching today. And we have super chat earlier as well.
I didn't get to read it, but maybe if crew
can put that out there again, I can put that up.
Oh it was from Christian Sled who gave two pounds
and said me out thanks for the two pounds. Yeah,

(01:20:18):
that's a fun one. I want to bring Kelly back
on stage real quick and say thanks to Kelly. Thank
you Kelly for being back up today. Appreciate you, Thanks.

Speaker 3 (01:20:26):
For letting me I appreciate it.

Speaker 1 (01:20:29):
Yeah, and what is our question again for to remind.

Speaker 3 (01:20:32):
Folks, for everybody to comment again, it is what is
the best sci fi religion? And why put the comments
down below, not in the chat on the side, but
down below, and we will read out the top three
answers next week.

Speaker 1 (01:20:47):
Absolutely absolutely thank you Kelly for that.

Speaker 3 (01:20:50):
And can I just say something if John still watching
the show, John, you know how how all men don't
think the same not all women think the same too,
And just keep that in mind. And when you're telling
a woman how other women think and she's not agreeing
with you, you might want to listen to that woman,
That's all. So just think about that.

Speaker 1 (01:21:12):
Good words, good words. And on that note, I like
to leave our show with words of wisdom, and I
like to give that opportunity to our guests to leave
words of wisdom. So Christina, do you have any words
of wisdom to leave us with before we wrap up
tonight's broadcast.

Speaker 2 (01:21:26):
I do I say this all the time, but the
people that walk this earth with us right are always
going to be far more important than anything over or
under it right. So often we get caught up in
the God above us right as believers, they get caught
up into God above us, that they don't care or
don't have empathy for the people that walk the earth
with them, And I think we need to shift our

(01:21:47):
focus from this vertical relationship to a horizontal one, and
then we'll be able to see a lot more change,
growth and evolution in our society.

Speaker 1 (01:21:54):
I love that. I love that, I love that, I
love that. Thank you for those words of wisdom, and
thank you for on the show today. Folks. Uh, this
has been another episode of truth one and I'm objectively Dan.
Remember to always keep one the truth and we'll see
you next time. Watch the nonprofits and join the hosts

(01:22:52):
in the live chat. Visit tiny dot cc slash y
t n b

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