Episode 52: Alain Goraguer's "La Planète Sauvage"

Gather ’round, sommeliers of the strange and crate-digging boogie children, for something “Strange! Frightening! Fascinating!” awaits. The soundtrack to Cannes 1973’s Jury Prize-winning film is a dazzling, surreal, avant-garde hymn to cosmic knowledge and compassion and a secret handshake among real heads. If you’re after a trip to a new dimension, here’s your one small step for man.

Follow us on Instagram and Twitter (@tunedig) for daily listening recommendations, and check out more episodes at tunedig.com.

Episode Transcript

Cliff (00:00):
You're listening to TuneDig.
Lucky you.
A conversation between two lifelongfriends about the power of music.
One album at a time.
I am Cliff.

Kyle (00:08):
And I'm Kyle each episode, we talk about a single album in depth, unpacking
it through conversation to understandwhat makes it worth appreciating
and hopefully, mercifully learning alittle bit about life along the way.

Cliff (00:20):
Please.
If you're listening for the first timebecause we're covering an artist or
a record you love, we do promise youwill learn something new or gain a new
perspective by the end of the episode.

Kyle (00:29):
And if you stuck with us for multiple episodes, you know, by now.
One, that we're strange, and two, thatyou are bound to expand your horizons.
So as we share a clear entrypoint for artists you may have
never tried to get into before,today is perhaps one such example.
We're talking about Gour,Fantastic Planet soundtrack.

Cliff (00:52):
La planète sauvage.

Kyle (00:54):
I will be attempting no French.
this

Cliff (00:57):
I'm gonna make a meal out of it when we do though.

Kyle (00:58):
A delicious meal because it's

Cliff (01:00):
Yeah, lots of carbs.
This one's awesome.
it's somehow unusual uh, in termsof it being a lot of things we'll
talk about a movie soundtrack amongseveral things, French, et cetera.
And at the same time, I think we'llprobably find that it's for the
most part directly and straightup the alley of the normal things
that we do like to listen to.
We'll probably draw a thread that.

(01:22):
We'll hopefully only surprisepeople who didn't know as much about
this record before we got started.
Because it's more everywhere than itfeels like at this moment if you don't
already know that it's everywhere.

Kyle (01:33):
I'm also very surprised that we've made it this far without not just
talking about a film score or somethingdirectly film involved, but like it
anything this adjacent to film at all.
And like you alluded to, I think there areplaces where we've touched intersections
and I know we'll talk about those, but Idon't know why it's never occurred to us.

(01:57):
I don't know.
No time like the present.
I think it surfaced for me that I don'treally ever sit down to listen to it's
a category that's very easy for me tomentally other and I know there are
people who feel the direct opposite ofthat and seek things out because they're
done by a film composer or becausethey accompanied a film somebody liked.
I've had to sit down and examine why Iplace it in some other, no pun intended,

(02:22):
extraterrestrial category of musicwhen you have examples like this that
exists that are very much their ownthing that just work on their face.

Cliff (02:32):
Luckily, I think this episode will do that for anybody who isn't
already doing it with this album,because it's a real good one to pull out.
It stands on its own, and as opposed toprobably many musical works that would
be associated, driven from, whatever,a visual medium, movies, whatever else,
this one doesn't need a specific levelof explanation to get why it's good.

(02:55):
It adds a level to it, instead.
Even with a lot of orchestral scoresor things like that would normally
go along with the movie, there'ssome foundational amount you need to
be aware of in the plot or whateverelse to truly make sense of it all.
And this one just has multiple levels.
of why it's worth checking out, listeningto actively, passively, whatever it
works in every possible context, whichis why we'll spend most of this episode

(03:20):
reminding you of how many places it'sin hip hop, which is exactly the place
where things that are good, at their coredissected a lot end up because they get
pieced apart and shoved into new ideasand they end up making a ton of sense.

Kyle (03:36):
ever since we talked about Marvin, I have been thinking a
lot about that idea of I want youbeing a, you can start from zero.
I've never heard this album.
I know nothing about Marvin Gaye.
I just put it on and the sounds hit me.
This is like that too, wherestarting from zero is actually
really good and you should do that.

(03:57):
And that's not always the case with music.
Sometimes you can't make heads ortails of it without some amount
of context, but this just works.
And there's some groove andsome repetition just sounds the
combination of sounds are cool.
And I think they hit you in areptile brain but then every little
bit of context you get beyond that.

(04:18):
enriches the informationyour body is receiving.
so it's, very cool that we'relike two for two on that.
" Start from zero and it only gets betterfrom there" way of appreciative inroads.

Cliff (04:30):
A hundred percent.
And I think we can probably drop a boatanchor early in the episode too, for folks
who are coming in more blind than usual.
Let me just go ahead and makea few, probably, associations
that we'll explain as we talk.
But, These are really quick ways, almostlike a musical spoiler, I guess, a way
to start looking at this really quickly,where if you're not already convinced

(04:54):
this is going to be worth some time,let me just show you the range of things
you can already look at from the jump.
About this because one is yes Hip hop ifyou like any form of trip hop or you've
ever liked any form of trip hop lo fialmost anything in that Meta genre at
all One this is gonna hit In a way thatsurprises you, but secondly, and at the

(05:16):
exact same time, if you like the bandcan, you're going to like what's happening
here for totally different reasons.
If you like funk, you're goingto like what's happening here
for totally different reasons.
If you like really experimental music,and I'm sorry to bring them up for
the second time, but it's a good kindof front door for the whole thing.
If you like the way that Mars Voltagets weird and interluding, this is

(05:41):
another way for you to experiencewhat's happening on this record.
Cause it's all of those things.
And then.
Is jazz it's just like french jazz Sothere's this whole other direct path and
doorway into the thing and I hope to makesome associations from the jazz angle as
we go along too, but There are so manydifferent sides to look at the music

(06:02):
that's here And it's enjoyable from allof those angles and it becomes really
shocking in my experience The more youlisten to this record that it's really
We have this experience with some of theepisodes that we do, but the more you
listen to it, the more confused you becomeabout why this isn't kind of a really,
really big deal in the sense that you'realways talking about it with a lot of

(06:23):
people and that everybody knows about it.
And that's a pretty strange thingto say about an animated film
from the seventies in France.
That it would 50 plus years on still feelimmediate and urgent and relevant and
interesting and it sounds really good
But that's the type of stuffwe're trying to dig up anyway,

Kyle (06:43):
There's, so much embedded in the little knowledge nugget that This
film premiered at Cannes in 1973,on the back of a few, very weird
sociopolitical conflict years in Europe.
The Holy Mountain, premiered that sameyear, the Jadrowski film at Cannes.

(07:03):
I'm still like Imagine seeingthose in the same weekend or
a double feature or whatever.
The nugget is that it won Thespecial prize or whatever it
did, not the palm your but won

Cliff (07:15):
it was the first animated film ever Yeah

Kyle (07:17):
But my understanding of the special prize is that it it is for the stuff that
sort of defies Categorization it's likeI don't know what I just watched but It
left an impression, and there was a realspirit of that the film that took home the
overall prize was also an adaptation of anovel, like Fantastic Planet, but it was
much more grounded, realistic, dramatic,so it's that was a very interesting

(07:39):
sort of mental starting point for me.
Because I thought about this film longbefore I really started concentrating
on the soundtrack, in the early Netflixrent two DVDs and get them at home days.
This was one of the first movies thatSerious people told me that I needed to
see and I did and then just was like, whoaThat was weird and filed that away for a

(08:01):
long time before streaming So it existsbetween categorization on the visual
level, on the audio level, on the sort oflike cultural, creative, contextual level.
I get the sense that it doesn'tget talked about more because
there's not easy places to slot

Cliff (08:18):
I want to encourage people to just start slotting it into the
weirdest places you can imagine.
I was telling Kyle recently uh,we were laughing a little bit.
We'll talk about the movie in asecond because I think we should go
ahead and just highlight a littlebit of that to sort of, vibe check
this anybody who hasn't seen visualsassociated with it especially.
I

Kyle (08:37):
if you haven't
you probably have somewherein the culture sphere.
If you ever had Tumblr, if you've beenon the internet, any amount, you've
seen something, If you haven't seen it,you've seen something influenced by it.
Certainly you've seensomething it influenced.
Like you're aware of it somewheredeep in the recesses of your mind.
I, I can say with a highdegree of certainty,

Cliff (08:55):
100 percent And I have a little bit of trouble once my brain
decided to associate the modernI guess it would also be kind of
surrealist, but the Strange Planetcomics are sort of like an extremely
modern version of this like Yeah.

Kyle (09:13):
damn, you're right.

Cliff (09:15):
which is, totally unrelated but now there's at least a little
visual mental hook for people to startthinking about blue people saying
ridiculous things uh, in a fun cadence.
But yeah there is a striking visualstyle to this whole thing, but
it's a wild thing in and of itself.
Point being, Kyle and I were talking aboutwatching this movie uh, and I specifically

(09:38):
really enjoyed the idea that I'm justgonna kind of brutalize my own psyche by
Watching this really weirdly psychedelicfilm in the strangest and most difficult
contexts I possibly can just to sort ofgo all the way to the inside of it and
just, have the experience I might havehad with the movie Heavy Metal, or Song

(09:59):
Remains the Same and just, you know,

Kyle (10:01):
like the wall.

Cliff (10:02):
yeah so yeah, let's just, let's go hard into the weird and I'll
watch it and um, like most thingsthat I go at with that attitude, they
end up just being funny and fun andenjoyable so don't overthink watching
this movie when you get the chance.
Put it on in the foreground orthe background, it doesn't matter.
It's gonna be weird, freak you outa little bit no matter what, cause

(10:24):
it's, it's It was a 1973 animated filmthat was designed to freak you out.
So we're

Kyle (10:30):
You were rattling off that list and I thought about how much
you love Xavier Renegade Angel, andis definitely in that same spirit.
So like, put on your Adult Swimglasses for the viewing, for sure.

Cliff (10:42):
Man, I love that.
Yes.
If you'll combine Xavier Renegade Angeland maybe the animated yellow submarine
stuff from the Beatles, you'll besomewhere in the right headspace, I think.
But yeah, so as you mentioned this storytranslated as fantastic planet, which
for what it's worth, quick note, even onthat, it's not a super direct translation.

(11:03):
Generally speaking, a more direct versionof that actual title in French would
be something more like the wild planet.
I did a little bit of reading aboutthat uh, and this is fun, like seventies
context, but several people decided to.
guess that the word fantasticin the 70s meant something a
little bit more like radical.

(11:25):
And if you put that veneer over howthat word was used, that'll track a
little bit better than uh, what the wordfantastic probably feels like today,
which is a little bit more cheesy or fun,

Kyle (11:37):
Yeah, not, not an emotional connotation like, in the literal
sense of, it is a fantasy.
This is a sci fi film, sure

Cliff (11:46):
Yes.
Extremely science fiction in both.
Both of those words go reallyhard on their definitions here.
This is an allegorical story, yes,about humans, called Oms living on
a planet where they are effectivelydominated by giant aliens called
Drags, or Trags, depending onhow you want to translate this.

(12:06):
Long and short of it without spoiling themovie because for real watch the movie.
It's cool We're going to talk more aboutthe music than that but effectively
aliens have these little humans basicallystored up like little pets and the whole
thing kind of follows the hero's journey,honestly, and seems to have a lot in
common with dune such as little vignettesof Fighting to the death for your survival

(12:28):
to be welcomed into the tribe and Oddceremonies and things like that uh, which
is just fun to watch people's brain kindof pour out but the whole story is about
humans being dominated by these aliensand basically what happens when people
cross Boundaries between two species orwhatever else and what happens there?

(12:48):
So just watch it, but it's based ona 1957 novel I think by Stephane Wu.
But, I don't know what the book was like.
I haven't had time to check that out.
Also, I'm going to assume a same French.
So that'd be a tough read for mepersonally, but I don't know that
there's anything inherently animatedor psychedelic or anything about

(13:11):
it from the jump, especially beingwritten, you know, 15 to 20 years
prior to this movie being made.
But the lenses that get put on in1973 to make what is effectively
a really psychedelic sci fianimated film really comes on
strong, gives a really solid vibe.
And all of that.
I can't say whether it would have workedwith or without this soundtrack, but I

(13:34):
can tell you it works with it The coolestthing about this record, I think, or the
biggest thing that struck me uh, whichmaybe it's obvious to say, but it stands
alone as a piece of music and works reallywell as the soundtrack to the movie.
Watching it actually, I'd encourage you,if you can, and if you haven't seen the
movie, listen to the album at least once.

(13:55):
First and then watch the movie becauseyou get a real appreciation for how they
play with that music and it starts toreally impress upon you what a talented
composer and arranger, alone was here andhis ability to think through apparently
in the span of about three weeks at thevery end of this project the ability

(14:17):
to put together the soundtrack thatwould work so well for such a wild
story It's one of those moments whereit's not only enjoyable, the fruits of
his labor, but you also start standingin awe at how good people are at music
in general, that they could crank outsomething like this that would work
so well for so long across the board.

Kyle (14:36):
So big plus one to listen to it before you watch the film and just
appreciate it as a piece of music.
If we're catching you fresh on all ofthis stuff, the definite entry point is
the album first and then the film, bothof them cold before you read anything.
Reiterate what we said last episode, stopthe tape right now, go enjoy all the stuff

(14:59):
and then come back to this material later.
Because I can assure you that we haveboth listened to and watched quite
a number of times at this point.
thing that will strike you immediatelyis that it's 25 tracks in 39 minutes.
So it's a bunch of very shortsnippets, which, if you're familiar
with film scores, Sometimes you willhave lots of little snippets like

(15:22):
that, but sometimes you will havelike Long orchestral pieces that get
broken up into snippets in the film.
The film itself is only 72 minutes it's avery very lean watch Arguably a little too
short as a film if anything so like verymuch of the film is accompanied by this

(15:42):
music and it it is very contextual butthere is sort of a strange juxtaposition
there it's a bunch of short pieces butit also because it's based on or grows
from one arpeggiation sort of feels likeone long thing also like Marvin Gaye
I don't think we intended to comparebut it is interesting there are like

Cliff (16:02):
We never do, but it

Kyle (16:03):
Yeah, similar energies.

Cliff (16:05):
always happens.
Yeah,

Kyle (16:06):
feels like no discernible beginning or end point because of
the sort of core running throughthe heartbeat of the thing.
it is a little strange to like, figure outwhat's going on and be like, at what point
in the score am I at any given moment?
Because it's like 47 seconds andthen you're on to the next thing.
one thing that I really enjoyed.
in reading about the film and I'venever spent any time reflecting on the

(16:29):
film or contemplating its themes orwhatever but like film is a world like
music where there are people who havelike written very extensively and done
a lot of Provocative thinking so We'lllink when we post this episode to some
of the film reviews There are a lot oflike great film blog sites, whatever
with smart scholarly people sharingviews on the thing there was one of like

(16:53):
four or five that I really liked each ofthem had like a new dimension that they
opened up for me like the symbolism ofthe colors or different interpretations
of the allegory You Of which there arethree or four potentially, but film cred
had this thing I think not only enrichesthe viewing of the film, but sort of
informed the way I listen to the music.
After that, and it said, ultimately,perhaps the best way to view the

(17:16):
film is as a pay into the value ofcompassionate, intelligent and knowledge.
Lulu, the director himself, definedthe story as, quote, sort of a hymn
to education in the 1973 French pressbook released to promote the film.
Tear, the main character'snarration, pointedly stresses his
delight in learning, a privilegethat the drogs, the other race of

(17:37):
creatures, seem to take for granted.
In listening, there is athread of, enlightenment,
enrichment, seeing the other.
We're two American males who only speakone language, and there is some pretty
pointed metaphor in all of it to mein, all the layers of unknown unknowns

(17:57):
that get exposed just by like stumblingIgnorantly as a westerner into like this
delightful little 40 minute piece of music

Cliff (18:06):
I do think two more very quick things will help hem in the
what's happening in the movie sowe can keep focusing on the music.
One is, just a delightful quotethat I pulled from New York Times
review of this movie in 1973.
I feel that it encapsulates a little bitmore of what you need to know about it.
One sentence I pulled from it,quote, There is some inoffensive

(18:28):
nudity, and not one smidgen ofhumor, not even for Christmas.
So for the last time,this is a French film.
Uh, And it meets all ofthose criteria very well.
But yeah, it's got thatgreat This is not funny.
The allegory is very clear.
I do really understand what you aresaying, even if there are levels that I

(18:48):
can keep getting as I watch it a littlebit more, like you're gonna understand
the point of the film fairly directly,and there are some real cool like, oh,
oh, there's boobs, neat, okay, so wewere doing a, okay, so we were doing a
serious thing, okay, and then, okay, theboobs, okay, but the boobs are serious
too, okay, we got this, okay, so I had to

Kyle (19:08):
Like an Oppenheimer, you know

Cliff (19:10):
yeah,

Kyle (19:14):
Strictly for historical purposes, bro

Cliff (19:17):
like an Oppenheimer, yeah, One more thing I'll add is, so we
mentioned, you know, this is all French.
It gets translated uh, into, you know,the word fantastic planet and all that.
But for most cases, what I've seen isthat the track names themselves remain
untranslated, generally speaking.
I'm gonna read a few of them translated.
In chronological order like of the tracklisting of the album because it does

(19:42):
a decent job of sort of highlightingwhat happens in this movie and what the
fuck was happening in the 70s, dude Sothat first word, like the first tracks,
there are multiple de homonization.
So that's a word that refers tothe moment when the soul has become
separate from the body itself.

(20:02):
So you've got that to start with.
Next track name.
Generic.
The Bracelet.
Yeah.
Which the bracelet pops up in a lotof the samples we'll talk about well.
but they're, you know, they're all kind oflike, obviously named, so, Dehomonization.
Generic.
The Bracelet.
Further down.
Drag Council.
Men.
The Great Coexistence.

(20:22):
The Woman.
Death of Drag.
The City of Free Men.
Robot Attack.
The Long March.
Waltz of the Statues.
The Rockets.
Generic.
Striptease, Children'sMeditation, The Old Woman Dies.
So, that's, um,

Kyle (20:38):
prompts the way that you read them.
Yeah.

Cliff (20:40):
Thank you so much.
Yeah, I had been practicing for that.
that last three in a row is a good,you know, Striptease, Children's
Meditation, The Old Woman Dies isa good encapsulation of how the
end of that movie feels in general.
yeah

Kyle (20:54):
and in that quick succession, like when I say 72 minutes is a little too
lean, it does really fly at the end.

Cliff (21:02):
Oh, I'm agreed with you.
They could have stressed it out.
I was there for it.
Tell me more.

Kyle (21:06):
Yeah.
And

Cliff (21:08):
I want to root for us,

Kyle (21:09):
and it's so, you wouldn't want it to be three hours,
obviously, but it's so, Cool.
Disorientingly immersive, that you reallystart to feel inside of the world and
then it's like, it's over, you know, theway that Zeppelin four and all the, great
eight song albums of the seventies arelike 36 minutes or whatever, like this.

(21:30):
And you're like, we're back.
We're like, I just startedthinking thoughts because of this.
Hold on keep going, stretch it out.

Cliff (21:37):
With more context of the movie in pocket, the music is what
we're really here to talk about.
And I want to swing backto it in several ways.
But one is one of the most fun parts.
Of telling musical stories to beginwith not to always zoom all the way
out immediately like this but One ofthe reasons we even do this podcast at
all is because there are cool storiesthat exist For you to go discover about

(22:01):
music that's interesting like usuallyinteresting music Had interesting
things happen while they were writingit or while they were making it or in
the time past after it was released orsomething unexpected happened 50 years
later or So, this story has all of that.
Just all of it.
It was cool at the time, 50 plusyears ago, it did something unique

(22:22):
and interesting that was shocking.
That he could churn out thistype of music, again, within
the span of about three weeks.
Uh, Which on top of that, he didnot have access to the movie itself
during the time that he wrote this.
this was arranged, composed, written,recorded from the memory of what he could
track from the time that he had seen theanimation and what was going into it.

(22:47):
He didn't have time to, actuallybe able to view the film back
then because it was still the 70sand he was on a tight deadline.

Kyle (22:53):
Which was the opposite of the way.
It was very often done in the studiosystems where they would bring a
composer in early and the rhythm ofthe score would help inform the pacing
of the scene or movements or whatever.
And.
It's like the worst, the worst groupproject ever, in that the film took
five years to produce and animateand they kept iterating on it and on

(23:20):
the vinyl re release page, they dida great write up, and like actually
shared some anecdotes from it.
Apparently, Lelou when they wouldtalk on the phone, he'd be like, we'll
have you ready to come in and do yourthing in three months or whatever.
And then that just kept going and goingfor five years and then they were like,
all right, we need the whole thing inthree weeks or a month or whatever.

(23:43):
So he wrote the whole thingin three weeks, blind.
And recorded it in three days, March8-10 including a session for part of
it with a string section of 26 players.
So we're not talking like KevinParker, Tame Impala, bedroom pop.
I'll knock this whole shit out ina weekend by myself type thing.

(24:04):
There was a heavy degree of coordinationwith the large studio involved.
So it's like the moredetail you learn about that.
The more insane, the whole thing becomes.
And then you listen to it with thatin mind and it feels so fully realized
and it's so utterly unique, nothingsounded like it before I mean, it was
like if aliens made blaxploitation alittle, so like maybe tangentially you

(24:28):
hear strains of things, nothing soundedlike it, this weird mix of elements.
And to this day, nothingsounds like it since.
So it's just.
A remarkable achievement, to yourpoint, speaks to, the true genius
that musicians are capable of,especially up against pressures.

Cliff (24:45):
Getting people to record like that is always ridiculous when I hear that.
I can't get 26 adults to a dinnergiven three weeks time, much less write
and record things that I need themto execute on in a short time span.
It's truly incredible.
But it's good to justhighlight and reinforce this
was a cool thing on its own.
Had no one ever cared.

(25:06):
Past when it was released in 1973, butthis story is cool because basically
despite Alain specifically neverreally wanting to be super well known.
He ended up doing a thing that had somuch impact down the road by people
who would use technology to samplemusic that wasn't even available

(25:27):
at the time that this was written.
And so, couldn't be conceptualized, right?
But, We see that Alain was knownas Gogo for short he went by other
monikers and names, I tried to figureout why don't I know more about
this guy, and part of it turns out

Kyle (25:44):
And why can't I more?
Yeah.

Cliff (25:46):
part of it, it turns out, seems to be because he didn't
want to be known for a while.
Which just adds to not only the mystiqueof the whole thing, but like, that's
what makes it that much more surprisingand shocking that his particular
work here has gotten a second andthird life through primarily hip hop.

Kyle (26:07):
Yeah.
It's also strange that he's notmore well known, he is in the last
few years, and he passed away.
last year in February of 2023.
It is strange that he's not morewell known relative to the volume
and type of output that he had.
So like prior to the score work, hewas a side man and a composer primarily

(26:28):
for Serge Gainsbourg, who was enormous.
And then a number ofother European superstars.
Who like, when I talk about culturalimmersion bit of all this, I clicked in
on some of the names that I'd never heardof people that he wrote for, and these
were like some of the biggest artists ofthe 20th century globally, and they were

(26:48):
names that were totally unfamiliar to me.
So like he had a huge career abit in obscurity as a songwriter.
He won the Eurovisioncontest with a song he wrote.
And I think I couldn't find a likefull discography anywhere, but I,
I think he wrote somewhere in theneighborhood of like hundreds of songs

Cliff (27:06):
Yeah, seems like it.

Kyle (27:07):
in the like French pop, jazz, whatever.
He released a solo jazz album, youknow, and this is all prior to the
mid sixties in his first 35 years.
Or so of life before this kind ofwork even really started happening.
So, Another pair of a lotof Marvin Gaye in that way.
long and deep career already beforethis little thing even happened.

Cliff (27:27):
I want to talk more about the specifics of not only how all this
stuff got sampled, but then all ofits sort of musical siblings and
all the cool stuff to look out for.
But being a little meta here, we'vebeen trying to add some structure
to our episodes in the sense of wehave a few kind of tent poles where
we stop and look at what's a goodway to just let this album hit you.

(27:51):
we've talked a little bit more aboutOur experiences both intentional and
sort of unintentional in experiencingthe music that we're listening to For
the episode whether it's in prep orwhether it's hit us in a different way
at a different time Well before know,we ever start talking about it so we
always make sure and cover how to takeit in, but tune in for those key moments.

(28:14):
So really kind of guiding you throughthe first couple of times you listen
to a new piece of music, especiallyif you've never heard it before.
So we talked.
Already about the kind of associationwith the movie, which is a, an aspect that
we don't always get to bring into playhonestly for the most part we're we're
not even huge on watching music videos alot of the time As some sort of additive

(28:36):
or contextual bit to understandingan album probably because there's Not
usually video for all the songs anyway.
so we've got some there, but I wantedto just say like really clearly,
yeah, this is a hundred percent,a great active listen if you're
ready for the vibe, but it's also areally, really, really good passive.

(28:57):
Listen, it is a very good, putit on in the background, but
make sure you turn it up enough.
To where you can catch stuff recordit's not dense or full or in the kind of
modern Mastering term of this it's notloud the way that a lot of other records
are And so there's space in there for youto like hear yourself think while you're

(29:19):
still listening to the record and youcan do you know You can do other stuff.
It's a great smoke session record.
I mean, honestly, if you just want tokind of blow anybody's lid the next time
you're hanging out and smoking a jointwith your friends, just put on this
record and you will either be ridiculedby people who don't understand music
as well as you or lauded by the peoplethat do mess the way everybody wants

(29:42):
to feel when they get past the joint.

Kyle (29:43):
It's a, for sure, like leather jacket moment in that way.
Yeah, we went over to her apartment and

Cliff (29:50):
Now, her loft.

Kyle (29:51):
yeah, her loft.
And she had all these cool, all thesecool pieces of art on the wall and
we were hanging out drinking wine andshe put on the Soundtrack to a french
sci fi film from the 70s and wasexplaining how it won top prize at con
that year and it was an allegory forfascism or coexistence among people.

(30:16):
Anyway she's got a boyfriend,but I her again soon.
She

Cliff (30:22):
He's in finance.

Kyle (30:24):
me a little.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
He's neither fantasticnor helping the planet.
His name's Todd.

Cliff (30:32):
yeah, leaving Brad aside, who would never like this record.
we, it's good to be reallystraightforward, especially with a
good, like a good passive listen.
Because everything we talkabout has some aspect of it.
That's a good active listen, butnot all of them will vibe with
you the way that this one will.
I mean you're gonna you're gonna dothat like low key slow head nod thing

(30:54):
when you're not paying attentionBecause you're just gonna catch it.
There's gonna be a coupleof times that make you go.
Oh shit something will roll in that'llsurprise you and it just sounds right
And that's just because that's thefeeling of listening to good music
my friend It just so happens that itcomes from a 73 french jazz album.
That's about a movie

Kyle (31:12):
And I'll say it's the month of May weather-wise you should have decent
environmental context around you, it's asgood a time as any to pick up this record.
So when we say passive listen, a lotof times that could mean one time and
then it's on a playlist with a bunchof other albums you've been meaning to

(31:33):
listen to and you go into the next thing.
This is a you can leave it on all day.
album So if it's a nice Saturday andyou open all your doors and windows and
you're letting fresh air in, cleaningthe house, whatever, play it somewhere
centrally and get some fresh air, butbe in the safety of your own home too.
And, it's so I don't necessarilywant to call it atmospheric.

(31:54):
It has ethereal moments, butfor a soundtrack, especially it
is very present and rhythmic.
But the movie.
is about a a planet.
It's about an environment andthe animation style of the film
is very environment focused.
It's a lot of stills of renaissancetype quality scenery contrast that with

(32:15):
like a Disney where it's way more fluidanimation, way more focused on the
character in the center of the frame.
there's a lot of beauty andfocus on the environment and
the look and feel of the thing.
And that's reflected in the music.
let it physically fill yourenvironment on a Saturday or something.
I can't recommend that highly enough.
if you like Seth Rogen's houseplantplaylist and you are the person with

(32:37):
the like custom clay ashtray type ofthing, some of it's sativa, some of it's
indica houseplant playlist type material.
So try to enjoy it in that way.

Cliff (32:47):
The way you're talking about Taking care of your aesthetics, listening
to this record the same way they,they cared a lot about the aesthetics
and the visual style of this film.
you mentioned, the animation styleis and was unique even at that time.
those were chosen very intentionallyto feel and look a certain way.
So that's a, yeah, that's a cooltakeaway, honestly, but that's

(33:10):
a really good way of putting it.
It's a great background record youcan put on loud, but vibe check, take
care of the area that's around youand give it some good feel so you can
really draw what's being put down here,

Kyle (33:22):
So musically, what.
I always look to you for the,the technical, literal end of
things, tonally, musically, vibewise, whatever what surprised you?
What were the ones thatperked your antenna up?

Cliff (33:35):
A couple of main things, which I think will contribute to the
sample ability of this thing thatwe'll talk about some more as well.
one is the way that, uh, especiallythe way the tracks are laid out, you
know, as you already mentioned, a lotof them are kind of shorter, and they're
chronologically related to how they'recoming out in the movie, but you've
got kind of a one minute track thatsort of noisy builds up on the way in.

(34:01):
And then it hits that second track and itfeels like the groove drops like a hammer.
The way you sort of shift from anxious torhythmic is noted, As always can't believe
I'm going to bring out this reference,but the thing that made me feel and think
about especially the first time I noticedhow it would go from noisy interlude

(34:23):
to aggressive, like slow backbeat.
I know I made you listen to this back inthe day, but Buried Insides Chronoclast.

Kyle (34:31):
Oh, man, deep.
I haven't about thatrecord in a long time.

Cliff (34:35):
it's so it's basically a kind of.
It's an atmospheric black metal album,we'll just say it that way, but they
have this sense of they're doing songsand they're doing almost literally
interludes in between them but Theinterlude is basically has a beat and a
rhythm that's at a really similar tempoto the main motifs in this record in

(35:00):
the way that it just kind of like snapsyou back into it really fast Even when
the rhythm didn't guide you there justa few seconds before kind of reminded
me of that and it It was one of thosemoments where sometimes the way that music
surprises me just makes me laugh out loud.
And that was one of them.
It was just like, Oh,that's, but that's so good.

(35:20):
That feels so good.
The way that it built up,went in a different direction
and then dropped you back in.
that's part of how, you know, it's good.
And then before long, you're, you'rehumming that to yourself anyway.
So to feel that backbeat come in.
And hit so strong was awesome.
The second thing that stood out thatwas sort of related to that on Mira at

(35:42):
tear, there is this guitar work in thebackground and funk guitar being a part
of jazz here is we could probably spend anepisode on that in and of itself, right?
But like one of the cool thingsto know here is this is ostensibly
a French jazz record, but it's.
there's funk guitar everywhere, reallyclearly, really easy to hear it's not

(36:03):
subtle at all that they're aping thatuh, and we could probably talk about
um, how French jazz uh, was probablyaping things the same way that British
blues was back in the seventies.
In the sense of they're sort of makingcaricatures of a culture that they're
actually not a part of, but it's coolenough that they want to borrow it.
and so, while everyone is welcome underthis tent I think that's a good way

(36:25):
to think about why funk was so heavilyintertwined with what's supposed to be
sort of jazz or soundtrack y music here.
So they're approximating something.
But it works and part of why it works,especially on, on Mira Eterra, the thing
that stood out to me was they do some sortof syncopation with the rhythm guitar.

(36:45):
And again, I think this is what will leadus into the sampling talk more, but they
play with rhythm really subtly here inboth the guitar and in a couple of the
different instruments as well, in a waythat really lends itself not only to Good
repetition but the actual compositionand arrangement of motifs over a long

(37:08):
period of time, like they are reusingreally simple ideas and then playing with
or reversing or spreading out the rhythmaround it to give it a different feeling.
And it's again, without a kind ofbetter reference for what that means.
Like it's one of the reasons I like theband between the buried in me the drummer,

(37:28):
Blake he takes one riff and just shiftsthe rhythm and the emphasis or makes a
syncopated version and just shifts betweenthose really quickly and goes back and
forth and it makes everything feel new.
And then when you bring it back later,You can bring it back in 80 different

(37:49):
ways because you've already played it allthose different ways And it creates like
a memorability out of a simple Like melodyin a way that works super well here so
those were kind of like the things thathit me and then what kept surprising me
was That those things just kept happeningwe would go in one direction and then
drop back into the beat But then the beatwould kind of syncopate or shift around

(38:12):
a little bit and then it would take youoff in a different direction And then
you'd snap back to something else again

Kyle (38:16):
We also talked about that in the Meshuggah episode, and I was one of
those people that tried to make moreof what there is to get about Meshuggah
than what those guys are going for.
Everything wrapping around 4 all the timeis the big trick with Meshuggah, and I
think there's a version of that here,and it's not like the alternating time

(38:38):
signature Berkeley College type of thing.
it's the kind of shift that, comesnaturally when you try to play
it to just find different feels.
And then you only realize it'slike a thing when you try to notate
it, you're like, Oh, it's this.
And then it's this on the16th and then whatever.
which I, I appreciate it as a person thatlike, doesn't do any of that, but I I know

(39:03):
it's like the Nick Cannon drum line thing.
I could do a rhythm or asyncopation in my head.
And it's like a thing.
And I know it's cool.
And maybe it's smart and maybeit's not, but I don't know
how to tell the difference.
So I'm in a very Cro Magnon waypicking up what you're putting down.

Cliff (39:19):
We both just saw the callus dalboys together we can both hold
the backbeat we're good to go

Kyle (39:24):
People, uh, speaking of, pulling the rhythm into a million different fragments.
It was cool.
It was one of the coolest, weirdestbands I've seen in a minute.
And cool, cool that we just did a,triple combo invocation of three weird
metal bands in the French jazz episode.

Cliff (39:43):
Sorry goes to classical music class once ends up this

Kyle (39:48):
I mean, I guess, yeah, I guess if you like, if you like the rhythmic aspect
of all this, go in those directions wherepeople are pulling groove against, chops.

Cliff (39:58):
Yeah, and even across those bands and this record though, I think
a way to talk about it, even if thesebands wouldn't say it the same way,
is all of this music is arranged.
I, and that, and that's notto shortcut any other form of
music writing, anything, right?
There's a lot and there's a lot of magicin just, we're just doing the thing, it's

(40:19):
live, this is how it feels, this is howit works, in, in just executing until
you get to the right place, but there'salways a kind of subsection of music,
especially the more complex you can getwith metal, jazz, and other things like
that, where you can tell that someone haslooked at it, it's live, As if it were on
a spreadsheet and went Hmm, I'm going tomove these pieces around on purpose now.

(40:43):
And some people know whatthey're doing with that.
And when they do it well, it shiftsthings into, they begin to mess with your
sense of the time that you're spending.
listening to the music, which gives youa feeling that's significantly different
than other types of music, I think.

(41:04):
And it works really well here.
because you're, you're goingin nearly concentric circles.
Like actually one way I thought aboutdescribing it was, you know, those
little geometric drawing machinesthat'll draw a circle and then you
make one small shift in it and itstarts drawing a slightly different
shape on top of it, but it's sort

Kyle (41:23):
dad

Cliff (41:25):
Aspirograph is a great example,

Kyle (41:27):
of a toddler here.

Cliff (41:29):
Glad to hear they're still cool, but the way that you're basically still
operating off of the same sort of orbitor axis or whatever But you're slightly
changing something and at first you'redoing that and you're just like well,
okay Well, I just sort of drew threeugly circles beside each other cool job
Uh, but if you keep going eventuallyyou end up with something that's like

(41:52):
wildly complex And it's not the thingthat you intended to make necessarily
But you made little tiny tweaks You Asthe machine kept running and you ended
up with this big kind of complex thing.
And whether you knew it or not, when youstarted, you made something pretty cool.
It's fun to look at and interestingand would be hard to create from
scratch with intention again.

(42:13):
this just feels like that becauseof how specifically it again
uses like a handful of motifs.
Like a handful of basic melodiesor rhythmic lines or string parts.
And for the most part, it's just, Imean, I would almost think of it as
like a bucket of five to 10 differentthings that are happening on this record.

(42:35):
And then they get sequenced togetherdifferently over time, iterated on,
repeated, returned to or in othercases they will, take the same.
If you take de harmonization one andgeneric, you'll notice that the way
both songs start, the same underlyingmelody on the first bar, but the

(42:58):
second bar, it just changes slightly.
Otherwise it would be indistinguishablefrom the track before it, but it
just like changes two or three notesout of that second bar, then goes
back to repeating the pre like it'smaking subtle shifts over time in a
way that you can sort of trace, but.
That I think is why it's so inherentlywell designed to be picked up and

(43:20):
sampled because now there's Basically,instead of there being 800 parts to
a song to sample, there's 8 parts toa song that have 10 variations each.
And so anybody who picks it upautomatically gets a song that sounds
different or a hook that soundsdifferent than anyone else who might

(43:40):
have sampled the exact same song.
So now this album is going tomake decades worth of hip hop.

Kyle (43:47):
I like a couple of things that you said.
One, in contrasting to those two tracks,one of the things that I kept thinking
was Okay, clearly it's all coming fromthe same arpeggio or the same bass
idea, which is a jazz thing, right?
It's, I guess that's what modal is.
Essentially, this islike a version of that.

(44:08):
But how elastic one idea can be.
And like you talked about itbeing fractal and geometric.
There was another episode where youmentioned Tom Holland's Spider Man and Dr.
Strange being on top of the train andthe world opening up fractally like that.
So interesting to invoke that

Cliff (44:30):
The Mirror Dimension, bro.

Kyle (44:32):
the mirror dimension.
So I thought about that a lot with themelody, how fractal the melody was and
just, you can sit and pontificate aboutthe note C or whatever the base note of
this thing is, how much you can stretchthat in a million different directions
and just marvel at the miracle ofrepetition or a thing against a different

(44:53):
counterpart note to note or measurelike that's a Very basic musical idea.
But if you are a non musical person,this is a really cool, the repetition
and arpeggiation on this thingis simple enough and repetitive
enough that it lets you reallyappreciate that without being boring.
In fact, quite the opposite.
it's very exciting the whole time.

(45:13):
The second thing is you talked to someonethat like laying it out on a spreadsheet
thing, that sort of visual block idea.
And of course that would lend itselfto hip hop and sampling because like,
think about an MPC and when it's goingthrough the 16 buttons or whatever.
And the light's going and it's like aSimon Says or whatever that toy was.

(45:35):
Like, that's just, you'rearranging the, beats in a measure.
And finally with technology,we had a way to visualize that.
So it's a cool, in the ways that wewere talking about with Tangerine Dream
a long while back, where they werestarting to use technology less visually
to hit some of those, fractalizations.
You have another early sort ofanalog example here that would lend

(45:57):
itself to the rhythms of hip hop.
So just very cool.
in addition to celebrating black music asthe Rosetta Stone of everything being like
a central theme of this podcast over theyears, the line from music concrete in the
forties and fifties and the Stockhausenschool and all that going into Sampling
and the interplay between live instrumentsand especially like funk, rhythmic type

(46:22):
stuff and technology all the way throughto sampling, that's probably the richest
fountain for like every fruit of musicthat's ever been cool comes off of that
vine in some way like you're no more thanthree degrees from it at any given point.
is interesting how much groundwe've been able to cover and still
come back to that over and overand over again on this podcast.

Cliff (46:43):
It is the undeniable and inevitable truth.
So we would just be pretending wedidn't call it out all the time.
Relative to what we were just talkingabout, we, so we also mentioned those
kind of tent poles for ways to listen.
So let's just talk about that reallybriefly, because the other thing we
like to do is, okay, once you've, onceyou've heard it and experienced it.

(47:03):
Once or twice maybe especially here withthe movie once if you want to go deeper
and you want to really like Listen tothe music on purpose to learn things to
feel things whatever But it's kind oflike your primary activity to consume the
music and pay attention to it and learnfrom it we like to talk about some things
that you can then focus on and isolatesort of as you know, you can think of

(47:27):
it as like when you're meditating, it'sreturning to your breath, it's visualizing
it's a framework to help you channel.
The energy that you have and sort ofget the thing that you're thinking
about back out of that experience.
And so we give you some things to focuson or isolate that won't take up so much
of your brain uh, and won't take youoff the music, but tunes you in enough.

(47:52):
To where you are paying attention andnot drifting and so one of those then
relative to everything that we justtalked about is paying attention to what
is repeating Versus what is changing?
Just simply I think noting Uh,you don't have to follow it.
You don't have to think about it aton, but just sort of noting, you
know, like I was just mentioning the,Disharmonization and, uh, Generique,

(48:15):
going into both of those, payingattention to the fact that they sound
really similar, but what part of it isactually different than what I just heard?
And just giving yourself a momentof reflecting I think that's really
helpful here in a cool exercise.
because maybe it's, it's obvious, butit's worth saying like when you are
reflecting on music relative to what'schanging, you're also sort of using a

(48:40):
little bit of your memory and you'regoing to have to pay a little bit of
attention to what you're listening to inorder to do this thought exercise at all.
And so it's a cool way to focus in.
And notice things.
And then you'll start to, I think,notice as well when you do that,
the way that the music progresses.

(49:00):
And it tunes you into the intentionalarrangement and composition
that we were just talking about.
None of us like, Me or kyleincluded we're fucking dummies man.
We're not smart enough to understandwhat You know endlessly talented
french jazz composer was thinkingdoing trying to do whatever okay But

(49:20):
that's never the exercise What we'retrying to do is understand it as best
we can and have an experience with it.
And so that's A layman's way, I think, oftuning into arrangement and composition,
just sort of paying attention to what'sstaying and what's coming and going,
noticing that a little bit more, andthen letting yourself return to it later
when you notice something has come backor is similar to what you heard before.

(49:45):
All of those are just really coolways to get in deep with the record.
And I can tell you with certainty,that is exactly the exercise that's
being done when this gets picked apart.

Kyle (49:57):
Yeah, and I would say as somebody who's never really played and, whose sort
of default mode structurally is verse,chorus, verse, chorus, bridge, chorus,
exit, three minute rock and roll song.
What you have here is a great teachingtool that's different than that,

(50:18):
and it's different from jazz inthat it's taken idea and improvise
in whatever different directions.
But it can help train you to startthinking about changes in music in
general, like going part to part orcontrasting different parts against
each other within a song or across analbum and how they create movement.

(50:39):
In your mind, the emotions that comefrom listening to music come from
the changes, as much as, or more thanthey come intra part, you hear a riff
or a tone or whatever that you like.
And it helps you createnarrative or story from mood.
musical movement becomeslyrical in that way.
So like, Listening to composedinstrumental music with no words to tell

(51:01):
you any story, is a good way to go backand like, maybe you appreciate a really
well crafted, Bob Dylan song or whatever.
And when you return to thethings that you, where you
think you want to know more.

Cliff (51:12):
It's also a fun exercise, related to that again, you have to
have seen the movie at least once toget the vibe of it, but you can start
to discern music that has a sort ofrelated on screen action to it versus
music that is sort of the backingwhile a thing is generally happening.

(51:34):
you'll start to notice some ofthe very particular and noticeable
elements of the music end up beingnot literally sound effects, but
practically sound effects from themovie in the sense that they're like
related to a specific thing happening.
And especially once you get a mental.
Vibe of that visual style and the feelof it and all you start to be able to

(51:59):
recreate a little bit of the scenes Inyour head as you're listening to the
music And going back and rememberingsort of what was happening during
it and it fits astonishingly wellSometimes when my brain will not calm
down I will listen to something Likebass and dumb uh, like Seinfeld without

(52:19):
actually watching it and only listeningto the audio in my headphone to sort
of like Bring me all the way back downand just sort of like, I don't know.
Sometimes it's like resetting, causeI get a little bit confused, but
I'm, I'm listening to something dumb.
That was cool.
I feel like I just disclosed somethingembarrassing and weird about myself
uh, and then forgot what it was worthsaying all that for to begin with.

(52:42):
So I've just ended up saying a thing,

Kyle (52:44):
podcasts just like worse versions of Seinfeld?
Anyway.
All podcasts are the podcasts aboutnothing brought to you by Bluetooth
One thing that I noticed though, I lovethat point about really present versus
passive Almost like saying a thingversus texturizing a thing in the film.

(53:08):
I felt that too One thing that Ithought was interesting is like when
you listen to the record divorce ofthe context of the film or whatever.
Very little of it is what feels likea score to me, thinking about like
a Hans Zimmer type of thing, right?
Where it is all sort of atmospheric andaround the action and world building.
So it's the ambient stuff where you'relike, Oh, this feels like a film

(53:30):
score that really stands out to me.
Like robot attack is a great example,or even striptease, which is ethereal,
but they're still like very subtlyplayed distinctive rhythm, but it's more
noticeable when it does pull back to me.
But then that got me thinking, Oh, Iwant to go watch a bunch of other movies.
That I thought the sound was cool ormentally filed away just to see what

(53:54):
percentage of it feels like it's helpingdrive the action versus it's just texture,
or I love that phrase that came up whenwe talked about Portishead all those years
ago, you know, the air around the thing.
So that is sort of its own exercises,like go back to your top 10 or 15
favorite films or look on the IMDb listspeople have generated for, films with

(54:17):
the best soundtracks or best scoresand do that exercise of like what
Functionally, the scorer is doing toyour senses at any given moment because
I'm too engrossed the narrative andthe visuals typically when I watch a
film to think about that dimension.
And that's like a whole new wayto experience film for me now.
Which is crazy as like a huge musicfan who's had a music podcast for years

(54:42):
to admit that I don't really do that.
I can think of all the momentswhere there's like pop music sync.
But score, again, is in adifferent category for me.
So I'm excited to go back and do a bunchof that in the weeks and months to come.

Cliff (54:55):
Yeah, to your point uh, the point of my, uh, listening to Seinfeld without
the screen on thing was exactly kindof what you were just mentioning, that
because of the intensity isn't the rightword, but the visuals are very particular,
sometimes that can be a lot to experience,and the movie's relatively heavy itself.
Being able to have another sort of milderform of experiencing it is I think what

(55:20):
can happen once you've watched the movieJust once or twice maybe and then you've
gotten familiar with the music And nowyou're able to just use that music to
kind of call back to memory some lessbrain energizing visuals That represent
what's happening without getting quite socaught up in some of those moments because

(55:40):
like of them will swallow you whole.

Kyle (55:44):
For sure.
And I think, divorcing it from the visualsworks so well with this particular piece
of music because of a quote that I found.
uh, that really resonated.
It said, this album feelscuriously unmoored from.
It's time and place.
While the opening guitars and bass ofDehumanization are transportative to
Europe's 1973 experimental rock scene,rubbing shoulders with Cannes, Future

(56:07):
Days, and Pink Floyd's Dark Side of theMoon, in moments like the baroque pastiche
Concealed Drags, The Drag Council, thescore hurtles centuries into the past.
Gorger's orchestral instrumentationsuspends everything in a state of
temporal ambiguity, while his constantjerking between aesthetics, there's
that word aesthetic again, means evenacutely contemporary sounds, like the

(56:29):
Black Sabbath esque drums on Ter andMidor, feel like brief stops in 1973
rather than grounding us for good.
So it, the mix of sounds play with asense of time and, terrain, uh, which
is, I think, exactly what the film goodexample of what reality is intended to
do It's clear that it's an allegory.
There are things that you recognizebut it is fantastic as well.

Cliff (56:51):
So enough with the teasing.
This all makes it reallygood for hip hop sampling.
So real fast, for the uninitiated,let me just go ahead and give you
the quick summary to get you excited.
Because if you like hip hop at all,this will be an interesting bit for

Kyle (57:07):
Remember guy Atlanta that used to be like, you like hip hop?
Little Five.

Cliff (57:12):
burned a lot of CDRs.

Kyle (57:14):
haven't thought about that guy in a while.
I hope he's doing well.
He sure

Cliff (57:21):
A lot of CD Rs man.
I did try to like hip hop once or twice,but anyway People you may know who have
sampled off of this album alone Notjust the artists in general not related
things just literally this album MacMiller, Run the Jewels, Flying Lotus,
Denzel Curry, Madlib, VIC, Lil Sims,probably more than that, but that's

(57:44):
just the easy group to grab off thetop of people who grab all this stuff.
Also uh, is sampled on KRS One tracks.
J Dilla mixed it in on some beat tapestuff like It's so good It's so good
in a completely different vein than youexpect it to be good If you came into

(58:05):
this record totally blind and didn't knowthat it became like a crate diggers jewel
going forward But it is and it seemsto have started with Madlib Uh with the
track come on feet, which I like a lotAlso, I just want to say really directly
because we're all adults here I feellike that phrase might mean something
different in 2023 that probably was notnecessarily intended At the time where

(58:30):
that track name was written, so i'm justgoing to say that and move on from it
But I just want to make it really clear.
I don't think there's anythingweird about that song but And
in fact, it's really funny.

Kyle (58:39):
This instance of Cliff's Intrusive Thoughts brought to you by Therapy.
However much you're getting, get more.
Now back to your scheduled program.

Cliff (58:48):
Forever haunted by the idea that I'll forget a caveat one day.

Kyle (58:52):
My brain was in the pool!

Cliff (58:56):
Yes,

Kyle (58:57):
My audio probably clipped there again, but it was worth it.
We're not gonna call it clipping, we'regonna call it castanzing from now on.

Cliff (59:04):
My fear is that I'm George Costanza when the truth is I'm probably Kramer
But so that track come on feet, right?
Like it had not only a sample fromtenant Tua it had a drum beat from
little feet in it, like the bandlittle feet, which is awesome.
Uh, And then snippets from ablaxploitation movie by Melvin

(59:27):
van Peebles, sweet backs.
Badass song has a lot of S's in it.
So I did my best with it.
But.

Kyle (59:35):
Cliff Seal, famously a Blaxploitation fan.

Cliff (59:38):
I'm just trying to read the sentences together, my man.
But yeah, it's a really fun track itimmediately like I understand why that
track would be listed as sort of thecatalyst for everything else starting to
sample it more and more heavily becauseit immediately captures why it works.
It sounds.
Right As the right vibe and what'scontinued to be interesting, which

(01:00:02):
I'd love to hear more from you aboutto is like The samples here seem to
have really like seamlessly gone frombeing totally fine with like boom bap
to more modern forms of productionand hip hop now like all of it works.
It works if you just throw a reallysimple beat on top of the rhythm

(01:00:22):
section that was already there.
It also works in like.
When Run the Jewels samples thebracelet they're just shifting we
talked about shifting and re sequencingrhythms they just shift their downbeat
around on that sample, and it worksfor the whole rest of the song.
And somehow sounds like LP!
A very particular production style,even though he's grabbing something

(01:00:43):
from this, which has its own lineage.
It's really cool how much life thisthing has gotten in the hip hop scene.

Kyle (01:00:49):
well, and if you think about the list of artists that you name, they
cut across a lot of time in hip hopand very different sort of context
and scenes, which speaks also to theelasticity of the source material.
And you're right.
It is used for In pretty profoundlydifferent ways large swaths of sound

(01:01:12):
from the record all the way down tolittle Dilla esque fragments, and by
like, Pretty different MCs, like BigPun is very different than KRS One,
is very different than Little Sims,is very different than Mac Miller.
So just having like a spiritual throughline between all of those artists who love
the form but express it very differently,it makes it, all the more potent to me.

(01:01:35):
Also, I'm glad to have aMadlib celebration moment.
if we had started the podcast earlierin the year, it probably would
have made a lot of sense in Marchto talk about Madvillainy on its
20th anniversary and how it was arelatively obscure gem like this record.
And if you know, you know, type thingwith Madlib and Doom, and now it's

(01:01:56):
in the multiple millions of streams.
Category in the past five years alone.
And like, it's like a hockeystick trajectory year over year.
So 20 years of mad villainy.
It's a good time to just appreciateMadlib and, the craft of sampling.
We've talked about Dilla a great deal,but like Madlib should be appreciated.

(01:02:17):
Pretty deeply as well.
and just the, the mirror anthropologyof taking like very different things and
sewing them together into a new quilt.
So like French sci fi soundtrackwith country ass little feet with
blaxploitation film, turning it into anew thing and like anthropologically

(01:02:38):
what those layers say together.
That's what makes sampling reallyexciting to me, but you have
to have something that like.
Is a canvas that you can impressa lot upon, which is what the
fantastic planet score does as well.
Lots of really exciting stuff withall of these, but the Madlib one
is particularly exciting to me.
And then you mentioned Flylo andDenzel's sample, but we'd be remiss

(01:03:03):
if we didn't also mention that Flylo.
was like directly organically inspiredby this album and film for "You're
Dead", which also touches on a lot ofthe same cosmic socio cultural types of
themes and ideas of death and rebirth andcoexistence and our place in the universe.
And in the New York Times interviewwhere they were like what inspired this

(01:03:24):
he he was like, This film straight up.
There's a handful ofthings, but like this film.
Very much so take this all the wayback out in addition to sampling
to brain feeder you know, what theyrepresent as the like peak of the
intersection between the layersof jazz and hip hop as they exist.
So that's fly low thundercat,especially in other cats in that orbit.

Cliff (01:03:45):
So the last thing we like to do In terms of those ten pull exercises Is think
about what to listen to next or sort ofwhat to do next If this one got you like
our sincere hope is that every album weintroduced to you if it hadn't already
Gotten you that it got you during theprocess of listening to it or listening

(01:04:06):
to our dumb asses Talk about this recordand how great it is but there's a moment
and I think it's probably different foreverybody But like you know what it feels
like you know what it feels like when youhear something and you go that's it Yep
So when those moments hit Whether it'sin that moment or whether it's sort of
later when you come back to it or you wantsomething that feels that way We try to

(01:04:28):
give you some things to explore and gofurther in Because just clicking around
Spotify's related artists tab is not gonnado it for you in most cases and certainly
not and even algorithmic playlists are notgoing to know really what to do with this.
It is too far afield in too manycategories to be I'll use this word

(01:04:51):
loosely, but correctly associated withother things that would match the vibe.
Cause I would sooner put thisbeside Clam's Casino than I
would beside other French jazz.
More than likely, but

Kyle (01:05:04):
I'm pulling up.
I really am curious to seewhat the related artists are.
Alan.
'cause I, that didn't evenstrike me until this moment.
Let's see.

Cliff (01:05:13):
Hopefully it'll list search because that's one of the main areas.
We want to encourage people to go explore.

Kyle (01:05:21):
Not on the list, bro.
Not on the list.
Raymond Scott of powerhousefame is on the list.

Cliff (01:05:31):
doing great.

Kyle (01:05:32):
some French and Italian score work on here.
Bruno Nikolai, experimentalartist, Basel Kerin on here.
Jean Claude Vanier on here.
Very interesting.
Yeah.
The related artists list doesnot do it for you, spiritually
speaking, in this case.

Cliff (01:05:50):
Spiritually speaking.
Thank you for that.

Kyle (01:05:52):
So where do you go?

Cliff (01:05:53):
Well, So one thing you called out, which I think is great, but
not always for the faint of heart.
Yes, this is French jazz, which is areminder that non American jazz exists.
And even though,

Kyle (01:06:05):
you know there are country, not America?

Cliff (01:06:08):
it's rude,

Kyle (01:06:09):
For four are to have landmass other than this one.

Cliff (01:06:13):
right?
If you're going to be in another country,be like Canada or Mexico where you're
touching us at all times so that we to.

Kyle (01:06:19):
Or we'll bomb you!
Don't go too far!

Cliff (01:06:23):
So, Not for the faint of heart, but yes foreign composers, jazz artists,
et cetera, and especially duringthe sixties and seventies uh, when
jazz was doing all of the very weirdthings that jazz was doing, including
effectively being far broader thanthe jazz that we talk about today.

(01:06:45):
So there's a million things to explore.
There are countless, and I'm not evenbeing sarcastic here, just like countless
artists from France, Belgium, Greecethat worked with Surge, Gainsbourg, or
or that Alon worked with or composedfor just sort of like going down those

(01:07:06):
branches of who did they work with uh,and were they important and why we'll
unveil some interesting things to youthat we'd otherwise never really be
exposed to, coming from an, uh, Americacentric purview on some of this.

Kyle (01:07:22):
Agreed.
Two things on that.
One, you know, I mentioned earlierin the episode, clicking into some
of those names he worked with.
One was Salvatore Adamo,who's a Belgian artist.
And

Cliff (01:07:34):
Sold a few records.

Kyle (01:07:35):
the top of his wiki, it says by 1964, Adama was the world's best
selling artists behind the Beatles.
And through his career, he sold more thanmillion 80 million eight zero million
albums and 20 million singles worldwide.
One of Belgium's alltime top selling artists.
And here, if you're like me, allyou knew about was the waffles.

(01:07:56):
A reference point that is alittle closer to home though.
Especially if you're a hip hop fan isDavid Axelrod famously sampled by Dr.
Dre for the next episode and sampleda gazillion times throughout the
course of his discography, but whatI think is cool about Alain and Serge
Gainsbourg, David Axelrod has thesame cool that makes it inherently

(01:08:20):
samplable aesthetically, energetically,in addition to the sound of the music.
Also if you're into the like mostrecent Arctic Monkeys stuff or the
general character Alex Turner istrying to play in the world, that
all comes straight from the Frenchjazz pop stuff, Serge Gainsbourg, to
the extent that they play it on thefront of house before their shows now.

(01:08:43):
So if you want the long cigarette cool,go push further in that direction.
jazz pop, especially like you said,in the late sixties, early seventies,
when it was heavily influenced by funk.
And the sort of like globalization ofcinema and that sort of thing we're like
cultures were starting to mash a little.

Cliff (01:09:01):
Another angle?
Certainly trip hop, for sure.
There's a lot we could say here.
Uh, One highlight I would give whenwe, let's see, we are of the very
particular part of our generationwhere we effectively did crate
digging through MP3s in middle school,high school, early college, right?
To the point that we were, you know,doing the big hard drive swapping

(01:09:23):
and we had hundreds of gigs of music.
Okay.
We, I don't just mean we were randomlydownloading things on Napster.
I mean, we were trying to build amusic collection it was impossible to
imagine the idea of being able to streamvirtually everything endlessly one day.
And through doing that, you know, I cameacross stuff like handsome boy modeling
school and just other stuff that has.

(01:09:46):
A cool factor to it uh, a real solidvibe and it just feels confident,
is the sort of family of stuff thatended up sampling a lot of things
that feel vibe related to this here.
I just, it's always a good timeto go down some of those rabbit
holes if you haven't in a while.
They just feel good and it's always to me.

(01:10:06):
That's always a fun musical journeyto go on anyway, because if you need
to shift back to like doing somethingother than actively thinking about
music, you can make that work prettyquick without changing too much.

Kyle (01:10:16):
Trip hop is such a cool example.
Handsome boy modeling school issuch a cool example, like not
exactly trip hop, but I get withlike suit music of nineties.
Yeah.
Portishead dummy is obviously the best.
They were going for spy film vibe on that.
And they made that shortfilm, to kill a dead man.

(01:10:38):
So very much spiritually in the lineageof, 60s British spy films and then
this sort of con evocative atmosphere.

Cliff (01:10:47):
While we are reaching for tangents and rabbit holes, I'd also say.
Even stepping away a little bit from themusic, but if the veneer of psychedelia
and the willingness to talk about, someof the most deeply consequential concepts
on earth via animation uh, if that isyour vibe, first of all, let's hang out.

(01:11:11):
And second of all, you might want toconsider things like Midnight Gospel
on which is, yeah, inherently notmusical, but it has a similar approach
to, we are going to layer psychedelicvisuals on top of a sort previously
unrelated thing in order to augmentthat experience for you and draw

(01:11:34):
something really different out of it.
I mean, Yeah, I can assure youthat you would feel differently.
Just hearing midnight gospel episodesas the origin podcast episodes that they
are, as opposed to watching them as anactual kind of film that's developing
that thought through something different.
I'm fairly convinced that's not acomfortable exercise for everyone, but

(01:11:57):
I think it is for some people and ifyou're one of those folks who feel,
comfortable kind of indulging in thatand letting your brain swim around
in all of those colors, then MidnightGospel and some other similar psychedelic
animation films may be for you.

Kyle (01:12:13):
Midnight Gospel is an amazing example.
two grown men texting abouthow a cartoon made him cry.
one finale with Duncan Trusselland his mom, wasn't it?
Midnight Gospel is so good becauseit exists in the animation pulls
emotionally in my mind between Bluey, thesleepy time episode of Bluey, which is

(01:12:37):
beautiful and made me as a father cry.
It was like the first time after I becamea dad, I realized like, Oh, I'm, I'm
not a person who doesn't cry anymore.
But there's like such a warmth in that.
And then on the other end is Rickand Morty that has all that same
sort of cosmic whatever collisionand uh, is very cold and cynical.

(01:13:00):
Or is trying to be, you know, wants to be.
Midnight Gospel is ahearty mix of the two.
It sits more in theCarlin place between them.
It's like, I have seen it all and Iaccept it all because I have no choice.
And I feel like the film FantasticPlanet sort of arrives in that
place spiritually as well.
So totally agree on Midnight Gospel.

(01:13:21):
I also think that the beauty in thesimple and just like sort of fumbling
away toward appreciating being herealso exists in the world of Miyazaki
films a lot, which I am super late to.
My wife tried to get me to watchthem for years and years when we were
dating and only started very recently.
the collision of fantasy to tell areally grounded story about people and

(01:13:45):
love and all the feelings in between.
That's the bread andbutter of Miyazaki films.
So I think you can go there as well.
I think about the music a lot less when Iwatch Miyazaki films, but it's there too.

Cliff (01:13:57):
Yeah, they're all going to be different kind of extensions of whatever
catches you About this music or thismovie or the combination of them or
them in isolation, whatever Theseare a bunch of different directions.
You can go in certainly exploring Animatedpsychedelic films or japanese films.
It's going to be a pretty differentvibe than trying to explore belgian
jazz composers but Whichever onestrikes you at the moment, because for

(01:14:20):
real, it does feel like if you kindof give yourself over to this music
or this film or both, you're gonna getsurprised how you feel about it anyway.
So you might as well just do it, payattention to it, and then see what
kind of felt good out of it, andchase that rabbit a little bit more.
Um, It's just that it couldlead you in a bunch of different
directions across time and space.
Go to TuneDig.

(01:14:41):
com to learn more aboutthe album we just covered.
Follow us on Instagram and Twitterfor more information about the album,
including playlist links to interestingarticles, videos, maybe even some
stories that didn't make the episode.
Most importantly, and always,please support your local record
store, concert venue, buy merchfrom an indie band that you love.

(01:15:02):
Thanks for listening.