Episode 62: Project Pat's "Mista Don't Play: Everythangs Workin"

This life we're livin' is oh so beautiful. Take it from Patrick Houston, who has spread the gospel of the real for three decades, followed by a discipleship that has shaped 21st century culture in his image. For those still alive in 2025 by the grace of God, let us give flowers to the man from the North North.

Follow us on Instagram, Threads, Blue Sky, or Mastodon (@tunedig) for daily listening recommendations, and check out more episodes at tunedig.com.

Episode Transcript

Kyle (00:00):
Today we're talking about Mista Don't Play
Workin by Project Pat.

Cliff (00:04):
Unless you have a better idea and want to interrupt me, I would
love to just immediately look throughthe fourth wall of this podcast
at other people listening to it.
Because a little meta conversationwe've had about this episode is.
Worrying about it being a little onesided because you have a lot of history
with this record And I would rather justimmediately sort of diffuse that whole

(00:28):
idea because one of the reasons we'retalking about this record to begin with
is because of that and No lie at all Youhave been influencing me to listen to
this record Since I was in the ninth gradethe eighth grade Like this was a favorite

(00:48):
album for me to listen to in my car assoon as I had The legal ability to drive
a car and be by myself in it So I love theidea that we might get to hear a lot more
from you about This album in particular.
And so I'm just hoping that by immediatelystanding up and looking at that idea

(01:09):
square in the eye, that we could justenjoy the rest of this one, because
I'm personally looking forward to it,

Kyle (01:15):
I've been waiting for a party to go to that.
Somebody was like, Hey, whohas thoughts on project Pat?
Wait, nobody's leave.
Lock the doors.
did I burn you a project Pat CDfor your truck back in the day?
I kind of vaguely remember that.

Cliff (01:32):
Oh, this was pre truck, this was 1984.
1986, no, 1984 Camaro Z28

Kyle (01:39):
yes.
Did you have the subs in there?

Cliff (01:42):
with two JL audio 10 inch subs in the back.
Like I can't hear songs off ofthis record without imagining the
phantom vibrations of my trunk ridingaround town, getting seven miles
to the gallon with the T tops down.

Kyle (01:59):
You look cool as shit though.
not going to lie.

Cliff (02:01):
That's one magic power of this record for sure.

Kyle (02:05):
I meant in the car, but the car and the record for sure

Cliff (02:08):
Camaros Memphis hip hop.
It's a cool guy starter kit.

Kyle (02:12):
in the South of Atlanta suburbs.
on the thought of meta commentary, youbasically brought it to my attention
that like I don't even really knowwhy I like this record so much.
you said something to the effect oflike, there's two types of people.
There's people that try to getinto stuff like Southern rap.
And then there's people who justlike it, you know, who, who you're

(02:34):
either Southern rapper, you're not,it's not a music that you can just
be like, Hey guys, big gulps, huh?
it's kind of either in you or it isn't.
And I don't know thatI want to believe that.
I want to believe that like,this is the music of my people.
This is my culture.
And, uh, I want everybody tobe welcomed into the party.
I want to ride in the passengerseat of any car that somebody who's

(02:56):
driving with two JL audio tensbumping this, I'll go wherever.
I'm interested to unpack it a little.
I think there's a lot to talk about.
the two things that like really jump outat me about all of this are idiosyncrasy.
you're going back to a piece of sourcematerial that there's nothing like this
and it's unique and distinctive evenagainst itself and all the stuff that

(03:17):
this group of people was making and.
often imitated, never duplicated.
I knew this was extremelyinfluential music.
I'm aware of what's happening in hip hopand popular culture in the 21st century.
I'm as plugged in as I ever was.
I love hip hop as much as I ever have.
I think it's an extraordinarily goodtime for hip hop in spite of what people
may say, like that's a hill I'd die on.

(03:38):
But like all of it comes from thissome percentage of all of it comes from
this and like very specifically fromthis record actually I'm just really
excited for the thought of like somebodywill have never heard of Project Pat
or heard the name or something andthen stuff of like a hundred things
will start clicking immediately andthen we're like Oh, this is This is
a very recent Rosetta Stone thing.

(04:01):
So there's that it'll, I think it'llmake a bunch of pop culture, click
into place and the shit's just dope.
Just on like a reptile brain level.
If it doesn't hit you in your pinealgland or whatever, money back guarantee.
Pato

Cliff (04:16):
pat cadence on purpose all that stuff clicks in like you were saying.
I mean, that's just what I mean, mentionseveral later, but, even down to like a
Megan Thee Stallion song just from thelast few years where she, at a really
particular moment, drops four barsas Project Pat, effectively, right?

(04:36):
And then goes back and it's likeyou're saying, it's, it's everywhere
and it's permeated so much of it.
I do think as There are moments andas we discuss music where we might want
to dial up that we are southern boysAnd then sometimes dial that back down.
It doesn't feel great all the timethese days, but to your points there
Is something inherently cultural aboutthis, which just by being from the South,

(05:03):
having spent, both of us have family andhave spent a lot of time in Tennessee,
and, in and around Memphis, um, but alsoNashville and just like that area where.
They're kinda hard to express, but evenwhen we were in high school to some
degree, there was a moment in time wherea lot of people sat around with each

(05:24):
other doing nothing, listening to thismusic in someone's car in a parking

Kyle (05:30):
in a parking lot.

Cliff (05:31):
because that's how kind of third places used to work.
And,

Kyle (05:36):
And like, so important to note how car culture really plays
a role in this and in Southernculture in general, like we don't
have the Northeastern density and.
There's not enough singularity like onthe West Coast in a single neighborhood
to warrant anything like that.
And not only are you like car hoppingaround in your own city or your metro

(06:00):
area, but like the South is so regional,you know, you, you mentioned Memphis
and Nashville, which are what, twoand a half, three hours apart drive,

Cliff (06:09):
huh,

Kyle (06:09):
you know, you do that you do.
Jackson, Mississippi, you do Huntsvilleand Birmingham, Alabama, you do the
Florida panhandle, you know, you doSavannah, Macon, Augusta, Columbia, South
Carolina, if you're in the car, you tendto be going a lot of places like the
Southeast is as big as a, a major chunk ofthe European Union and you just spend time

(06:33):
traversing it about as much as a European.
It's just like kind of what we do.

Cliff (06:37):
yep, driving in cars with bad gas mileage to go taste how biscuits
and barbecue are cooked in allthe different places that you just
mentioned because they're all unique.

Kyle (06:48):
Man, a Bryant's biscuit.
Have you ever had aBrian's biscuit in Memphis?

Cliff (06:52):
no, but it's on the top of my mind every time I go near it, because I tried
last time I was around because you told meI needed to, and something prevented me,
and it will not prevent me the next time.

Kyle (07:03):
I haven't been in a long time.
it's probably been at least 10 years ifnot longer since we did Memphis, but man,
it that was a bit like I don't know if wehave an equivalent on this podcast, but
I guess it was like, we, we talked on thelast episode about Grace Jones in Jamaica.
And then I, I made the wholelike Palm desert analogy.
It was a bit like going to thePalm desert and being like,

(07:25):
Oh, there's a frequency here.
there's a thing Memphis is like a,it's very different within the South.
It's like super workingclass, blue collar.
There's a lot of like factory jobs still.
It's the gateway to theMidwest because Arkansas is.
right over the bridge, youknow, West Memphis, Arkansas
is right over that bridge.
so it's situated in a reallyinteresting place with interstate

(07:45):
commerce and like you hear in alot of hypnotized camp stuff, them
talking about interstate commerceand trafficking and drug trafficking
to be specific, that sort of thing.
a bunch of real life stuff, and I guessthat's another thing to address right off
the rip is like, you're listening to twoupper middle class white guys who like
probably have no business weighing inon and speculating about, all the socio

(08:08):
cultural layers that you can unpack withthis, and the last thing that I want to
do is sound like a guy that's writing histhesis on it, I don't think that I will,
but if you're a person that Feels like youcan't connect on that wavelength because
they're talking about shit that makesyou uncomfortable I think there's another
level that you can get to with this still

Cliff (08:25):
For sure.
As usual, we will set the example ofshowing people how to sincerely like
a thing without being totally cringyabout it all the time and learning
how to like a thing and then letyou get energy from liking a thing
and then go learn more about it.
We have a range of albums and alwaystalk about the different ways that it

(08:47):
will send you downstream, for otherartists and genres and everything else.
And what's cool about this one is it will,I mean, the stream that it sends you down
into is Everything is all of it, and Ieven sort of laughed at myself hearing
you mention Memphis, like we need to givethis, you know, kind of short defense of

(09:07):
it to people who have maybe never beenaround it, because I think on the other
hand, even culturally, How many peopleremember that Memphis is where rock and
roll came from and where the blues camefrom, like what we're about to listen to
and talk about is yet another genre ofmusic that emerged almost whole cloth from

(09:28):
an area because of its like density ofculture and people who were in community
together wanted to make music togetherand like, I don't know, people think
that the Vortexes are over Sedona orwhatever, but something went on in Memphis
and has gone on there for a long time.
And it's always fun to dig it back upfor people who have never even thought

(09:48):
to drive by that part of the country.

Kyle (09:50):
yeah, I mean the the Most beautiful and the ugliest stuff about
civil rights all lives in Memphis.
And I guess I, I didn't really thinkthat much about that in the context of
this episode, but you know, you go toMemphis, you go inside Sun Records and
you think about Johnny Cash, you know,singular beloved across racial lines

(10:12):
and Jerry Lee Lewis and all those guys.
You go to stacks, like I shed tears onthe organ in the a room that green onions
was played on because that shit changedmy life, you know, there's like a short
three song list of songs that Sound likewhatever cells are plumping pumping in my
blood and it's spodey odie green onionsand probably one other thing and it's also

(10:33):
the home of the Lorraine motel where Dr.
King was assassinated.
Uh, and there's still a palpableheaviness at that place.
So like there's beauty when youlearn about something like the MGs,
there's the ugliness when you goto a place like the Lorraine motel.
There's sorts of social stratacrime and stuff in Memphis.
It's got a, it's got a prettygritty, hard nosed reputation,

(10:55):
but it's also got Beale street.
It's the home of the greatest blues,you can go to like places that are
basically old houses and they'relike BYOB joints and people play
till all hours of the morning.
So yeah, it's, you know, if you loveNew Orleans, if you love Chicago, if
you love any of those towns that likeyou associate with music, Memphis has a
really underrated reputation for beinga place where like music is essential.

(11:18):
It's in its bones.

Cliff (11:19):
So I feel a little compelled almost from watching a recent interview.
With Patrick Earl Houston, Project Pathere listening to him talk for a while
and hearing him give his perspectiveon how he got into rap to begin with.
It went through his brother and sowhereas in, in a lot of cases, like we,

(11:43):
I feel like we go out of our way to notimply that people just sort of like fell
into music or that, you know, someone onaffiliated with the artists themselves
actually drug them along and made thedifference that we're talking about.
But like, in this particular case,Pat pretty specifically laid out.
Got in through his brother, and I thinkthat's maybe the best place for, uh, if

(12:04):
you're cool with it for us, kind of likeset up camp and start drawing out a little
map of what was happening in Memphis,maybe just a little bit before this, so we
can get a little bit of a lead up to howwe ended up on this record in particular.

Kyle (12:19):
Yeah, I wish that I knew everything about the late 80s, early 90s, like
immediately pre Triple Six Mafia,pro like Prophet Posse Era of things.
Kingpin, Skinnypimp, all that sort ofstuff was also thinking back to, we did
the spinoff in 2020, the tuned radio, andwe talked about sampling and I spent a

(12:40):
big chunk of that episode talking aboutjuicy J and how I think he's like actually
one of the best producers in hip hopand not just cause they have a signature
sound, but like, because he is so musical.
and there's a lot more musicalityacross the sort of collective than I
even knew when I started reading more.
So this record came outin February of 2001.
The past output goes all theway back to the early nineties.

(13:04):
in the late eighties, you have a handfulof teenagers, like a couple of little
clusters of teens, one being DJ Paul andLord infamous, uh, learning to play music.
And then you have Juicy J learningto DJ and wanting to become a singer
slash actor slash entertainer.
and Juicy J is Pat's brother andthe two sort of camps intersect and

(13:28):
they're like, you're doing dope shit.
We're doing dope shit.
Why don't we link up andtry some stuff together?
So you start seeing Pat pop up on versuson Juicy songs as far back as like 91.
So That should give you a sense oflike how long he's been in the game.
Mr. Don't play is, is like sortof 10 or 11 years into wrapping.

(13:49):
what you'll notice if you go back andI didn't realize how true this was.
It's like that signature Pat stylehas kind of always been there.
It's been there for a really long time.
And we'll, I'm sure we'll talk in alittle bit about like how that was.
Encouraged or nurtured out by themusicality of the people around them.
But like I was listening back to,all these songs have been sampled now

(14:09):
by someone, by the way, uh, there'sa song called nine to your dome.
The juicy did 94 project Pat flow on that.
There is a song on the record, the endby three six mafia that came out in 97,
but I think it was recorded a littleearlier than that, where the kill is hang.
Signature pat on that.
And it's just like all through there.
It's all dotted.
So he's built up this thing, and then,true to Pat fashion I guess, he like, you

(14:33):
won't find Pat stuff for a little while.

Cliff (14:35):
I see there's a gap in your working history here.
Can you tell us a littlebit more about that?

Kyle (14:40):
I was wasting away in Memphis equivalent of Margaritaville.
Uh, yeah, he went, uh, if Ifuck up, I'mma go downtown, man.
He did, for several years,because of robbery charges.

Cliff (14:52):
listening to him recount.
That whole situation and how it ended upwas I hesitate to use this word, but I
don't have a better one really endearing.
the way that he would talk about thosemoments in his life when he was kind
of being interviewed and being askedabout him in a pretty no nonsense way.
And he would like, he would just belike, listen, I'm, he's one of those

(15:13):
people who likes to tell you that he'sstraight up with you all the time.

Kyle (15:16):
ha ha!
ha!

Cliff (15:18):
but seems to break in the direction of like, I think he's actually.
Actually that way the wholetime and not covering it up.
Right.
And so he'd kind of preface it withlike, I'll be straight with you about it.
And then he just like talked exactlyabout his role in a crime, exactly how
it happened, exactly how, how and why hethought it was a good idea at the time.

(15:40):
And in that moment, and thenin a few others, throughout.
You know, some pretty negative momentsof his life that he was recounting.
It was interesting, though, becausehe would draw out a thread that
we might touch on as we go along.
But he was like, you know, I actually,when I think about myself making
those decisions, I recognize that Ihad a moment of decision where the

(16:01):
part of me that was a church goingChristian had a perspective on whether
I should be doing this thing or not.
He was like, you know, and thenyou got the devil on your shoulder
and he was like, I'm tellingyou, I did the wrong thing.
And I can remember the feeling oflike kind of choosing the wrong thing.
It was about money and that's what Ithought I needed to do and I did it,

(16:23):
but it's just like to hear honesty aboutit without, any veneer of like, I need
you to not look at me bad because Idid this or I'm going to glorify this
and I need you to think it was cool.
Both of them just like,Nope, this is what happened.
This is what I did.
This is why I went to prison.
This is what I thoughtabout while I was there.
No, I don't think that it was a good idea.

(16:44):
Uh, I did the best I could at thetime, and just learning a little bit
more about this person, I think is,something that helped rekindle an
appreciation for this record that Icould not have had as a 15 year old.

Kyle (16:56):
That's real.
I You know, hearing you talk just now,I was sitting here thinking about how
we've been grappling with artists andwhether they're good or bad, you know,
like the Marvin Gaye episode, and we'vetouched on that a number of times.
here with Pat, it's like, you have alot of both, especially if you're coming

(17:18):
into a new and 2025, like you havesome really good stuff, some really bad
stuff, and then right in the middle,you have this lightning bolt music
that makes you feel some type of way.
And.
it just sort of eliminates anyneed to put yourself in a camp or
do that, you know, Reddit shit.
I'm for it or against it.
it's good.
So maybe Pat is a good exercise inmusic, like a, palate cleanser to be

(17:43):
like, yeah, he's good and bad and soam I, and so it was everything and
all right, just play the fucking,you know, and that hadn't occurred
to me either, so I appreciate that,

Cliff (17:53):
So that, that speaks to the gap in his resume, perhaps.

Kyle (17:58):
uh, but it gets right back to work.
He reemerges around 98 with a groupcalled the Kazi, which is him and a
couple of other guys that were like thestory of like what became hypnotized
minds and the like iconic classic DJPaul, juicy J thing that really went
on a run in the early two thousands.
There's some other players in that orbitsort of like early odd future had some

(18:21):
random people in it that didn't wind upbeing sort of like the final core crew.
Yet another episode where we're talkingabout the power of the collective.
here and like achieving morethan the sum of their parts.
so he did a record with the Kazi andthen in 99 puts out his solo, you know,
quote unquote, debut Getty green on hisbrother, juicy's hypnotized minds label.
So like up and going at this point,three sixes put out a couple of records

(18:44):
like mystic styles came out in 95.
It was an underground cult classic.
The end comes out in 97.
There's like a bunch ofunderground mixtape stuff.
They're really starting to like pop offin Memphis in the South, sort of like the
second big wave behind eight ball and MJG.
What I think is interesting aboutthe debut and a lot of these
records is hypnotized minds wasput out through loud records,

(19:08):
which is like a real through line.
There's that cat.
His last name is Rifkinwas a loud records guy.
Was putting out like street stuff, notshiny veneer number once done, uh, like
trying to be cosmopolitan playing in themall type rap shit we're talking about.
They put out Wu Tang 36 chambers in 93.

(19:28):
They put out Only Built forCuban Links by Ghostface.
They put out all themajor Mobb Deep records.
So you're talking about ShookOnes Part Two, Exist in the
World because of Loud Records.
Talking about M. O. P., Ante Up, stillone of the hardest rap songs ever.
You're talking about The Executioners,which I know you have a special love
for because of that one song thatwas pretty popular for a minute.

(19:49):
but like hard stuff.
not big boys, the way you move,listen with your mom types up
with all respect to that song.
Cause that's one of thegreatest songs ever.
and then I guess kind of like the moment,the sort of crossover moment, if there
is one here, I think it's a crossovermoment because like this record went gold.
It was, this record was numberfour on billboard at like the
height of CD sales, you know, 17CDs of the turn of the century.

(20:12):
So.
That a record that's talking aboutlike robbing and killing and all
that stuff as flatly and Ken Burnsly as it does, went number four.
Now being a little older, I can understandwhy culture scared the shit out of
parents at the turn of the century.
This and Marilyn Manson and Eminemand all that, like, what is happening?

(20:33):
a little less worried about kidsnow if that's what it was like
when we were early teenagers.
So the moment was sipping onsome syrup, 2000, three, six
project, Pat UGK, huge meetup.
so you're talking about thiscomes out around the time of, Miss
Jackson, like early stankonia, huge.
This is the moment Southernrap goes on the map.
It's easy to forget now because of the25 year dominance, but Southern rap

(20:56):
did not used to be culturally dominant.
And it was talked about in wheel.
Like I, I sent you a weird.
Super cringy NME review where they're,they're talking about it in like, big
daddy Kane pimp language but like sippingon some syrup wouldn't exist without Pat,
you know, because he does the hook, butthe hook comes from an almost throwaway
line from the song ballers on Getty Green.

(21:18):
And it's like one of the most iconichooks in all of Southern rap and
in all of 21st century hip hop.
so I think that's a, like, Iwant to stop down and be like,
that's a project pat thing.
And he said that in another interviewwhere he was like, I have the
ability to take a throwaway lineand make a whole song around it.
Like from anyone, he said specificallyfrom Pac and Biggie, like I'll take a

(21:40):
word or an idea and I'll, I'll writea whole song around it, but like.
that's not easy.
That's an understatement.
That's not easy at all

Cliff (21:46):
Also, this song was everywhere.
Everywhere.
Everyone knew this song.

Kyle (21:51):
And it's it's you know for the olds and for the Midwesterners it's
about abusing prescription cough syrup

Cliff (21:57):
They can ask AI for the recipe for lean or whatever.
That's not what this is about.

Kyle (22:05):
used to be a country it's opioids now used to be promethazine

Cliff (22:09):
Yeah, the song was everywhere, we all knowingly sang it as basically
children who did not drink syrup.
So, we're in the clear.
At least for a few years until we couldfigure out how to read ingredients lists.

Kyle (22:20):
Yeah, the, I'm gonna get a grape soda and a styrofoam cup.
So I got some, some purple drinkto carry around also sample great.
going back to soul, great MarvinGaye sample, not from the record
we covered, but from the followuprecord song called, is that enough?
And really like, Juicy J and someof the guys that I play football
with are like the two reasons that Ilove old soul music as much as I do.

(22:44):
I learned about so many artistsbecause of Juicy J samples.
Got into Marvin Gaye, learned aboutWillie Hutch, learned about the OJs.
I'm sure there are others.

Cliff (22:52):
So maybe it's time to make a pit stop into, Sorry, I'm caught
up in my head trying to imaginewhat it might be like to have never
heard a record like this before.
to put it on.
But getting past that.
So thinking about some ways totake this thing in fresh, uh, and
considering that as we have coveredhere to very different degrees,

(23:14):
probably orders of magnitude different.
you and I have both, had such ahistory with this record specifically
that there is no taking it in freshthat we could possibly do anymore.
Uh, but.
I do feel like I noticed a few thingstrying to shift this record into
serious music listening mode insteadof the usual places that I love to

(23:37):
put this or have put it in the past.

Kyle (23:39):
Well, I feel like you listen to this kind of music less
frequently than I do these days.
Is that safe to say?

Cliff (23:46):
That's a confirm.
Yeah, I think so.

Kyle (23:49):
So like if anybody can listen fresher, it's probably you.
So like you know, with your 2025eyes and ears, what jumped out?
What surprised you?

Cliff (24:00):
Appreciating smaller details that I can hear when I listen differently now
on more modern forms of music output, uh,than the kinds of things I was throwing
together, uh, as I I taught myself caraudio as a child I'm only being sort of
facetious, like, for real, everythingsounds completely distinct and different

(24:24):
than I sort of remember it feeling andsounding like in the places that I used
to spend this so much, so then what standsout to me is more of like hearing the,
bells, the samples in the little, Extratouches that are in here because I don't
you know, hopefully it wouldn't be oddlyoffensive to note this from my perspective

(24:46):
like the beats are Not complicated On

Kyle (24:49):
Oh, not at all.

Cliff (24:50):
right?
And that's sort of a staple of the genre.
And so if you are, you know, a kidand therefore an idiot listening
to this, you're also kind of likesmooth braining the whole experience
and like flattening it into thebeat and the lyrics and whatever.
And so being able to go back and justlike Hear the detail that I hadn't

(25:11):
heard before, and then once againremind myself, Oh yeah, I'm listening
to hip hop, that came from somewhere!
And then giving myself little jumpingoff points, uh, which, I mean Honestly,
I don't think I've had as much delightsample chasing as I have on this
one in particular because the songsthat it sends you to are hilarious.

(25:33):
Like,
and I mean that with true and genuinerespect towards 80s and 90s rap
aficionados and folks who love it.
It's cool.
but the, the very particular hopsalong the stops of chasing some of the
samples here are just like songs thatactually made me laugh because they

(25:56):
felt like high, loose energy types ofsongs that were coming out so early.
There was nothing to prove, nothingto do, nothing to sound like.
But that led to, Once again, arecurring theme of this podcast
can you do a lyric that makesCliff crawl up inside of himself?
and yeah, I found someeasily chasing things here.

(26:19):
Um, but it was just truly likepaying attention, not only to.
Uh, the details, but specifically thedetails that are in like a particular part
of the sonic register was something that Icould do differently now and feels obvious
to say in retrospect, but like a 2001 hiphop album sounds fundamentally different
in the ways that I can listen to it nowthan it did in any of the ways that I had

(26:43):
available to me even then, and that's.
If the rip on a CD that I hadwas even somewhat above 128 or
something like that, you know?
So, unironically, the kind of clarityof this album comes back out to me,
and that sort of surprised me becauseof how sort of unexpected it was.

(27:04):
and that, that just, sent me on a bunchof joyous little trails, listening to
a bunch of different songs on this one.

Kyle (27:10):
there one or two moments or sounds in particular that you were
like, Oh, or, or a vibe that you,or a vibe that you were drawn to?

Cliff (27:19):
Yeah they're heavily weighted in a few different directions.
I like, it's almost embarrassing tothe degree that I'm weighed towards
the very first track on this album.
it's not only the first song, Onthis album and like a huge hit,
but was also the first song onwhatever CD that I had this on.

(27:41):
So it's just a hundred percent of thetime I was hitting chicken head and like
It got deeply ingrained in my being, andso, but that said, it's like a Pavlov's
bell type of thing at this point, right?
Like the, everything about it snaps meinto a particular way of feeling, uh, and
it still works to this day and, but what.

(28:05):
What I think delighted me, and we'lltalk a little bit more about it, So,
going back to the songs that I knew thebest and liked the most, um, Chicken
Head, Aggravated Robbery just ones thatI definitely liked a lot and spun a ton.
It was then noticing like, oh, wait,In the little kind of skit thing
that happens in Aggravated Robbery,Chickenhead plays in the background.

(28:28):
And like, the little loops of thingsthat I could sort of appreciate, and it's
like, Putting on my musical brain thatI've gotten in the time since this record
came out and seeing and appreciatinghip hop artists like, Kendrick, Vince
Staples, people who just like do detailedthings on purpose and then sort of

(28:50):
demand that you come along with it.
It made me appreciate that a lot ofthat stuff was probably hiding in songs
and records that we didn't really knowhow to appreciate that fully back then.
Because it hadn't gotten so, youknow, maybe production level blown
out and detailed and all that stuff.
So, a few of them throw me rightback into the same vibe, for sure.

(29:11):
But even just like, speaking ofaggravated robbery, like I can't
even tell now whether there islike a mandala effect going on with
the genre of horrorcore that 3.
6 spun up.
Because now when I hear thingslike the main hooks and aggravated
robbery, like, it sounds scary to me.

(29:31):
And sounds like it, I truly can't eventell anymore whether I've just like
mentally associated, uh, what, like howthat genre spun up their appreciation
for horror films and all those soundsand how it permeated music quickly.
I can't tell whether that's whatI'm actually hearing here or whether
just in retrospect, learning whatall that stuff meant as I got older.

(29:54):
Now I'm just sort of projectingonto it, but it's like.
Songs like those have a reallyparticular visceral feel still to this
day to me, uh, and I love that I candrop right back in anytime I want.

Kyle (30:06):
Yeah.
There's some pretty menacingatmosphere in a lot of those places.

Cliff (30:10):
That's a good way of putting it.
Yep.

Kyle (30:12):
but it is very atmospheric, which is like, You almost wonder if that's
what they were going for because it is sohere's the beat, you know, like hi hat,
synth, bass, whatever, but it's reallyatmospheric and kind of world building.
And, saying things about Project Patthat, out of context, sound like we're
in the Tangerine Dream episode is like,

Cliff (30:34):
Uh huh.

Kyle (30:35):
is a little bit of a head trip.

Cliff (30:36):
So what did you do, knowing you had to re approach this and think of anything
specific and fresh to say about it?

Kyle (30:43):
mean, keeping it a book, the big surprise for me is a person who can listen
to songs a thousand times and still getthe lyrics wrong, is hilarious because
I do, I do words professionally, but Ilike can't memorize speeches and I can't
remember lyrics and it just is what it is.
I would love for a psychologistto tell me what that's all about.

Cliff (31:01):
You can't remember him and I can't hear him.
We're quite a fucking pair.

Kyle (31:06):
What?
I don't know.
I'll, I'll figure it out.
I'll tell you again later.
the big thing.
driving around listening to this record.
Again, the car is the bestcontext for this record always.
And if you can't get access to a car outof like fucking go on vacation and get a
rental car, it's like kind of worth it.
the big surprise was how many ofthe lyrics I know by heart and can

(31:27):
like, say from the diaphragm, with mywhole chest, and how many things have
influenced the cadence of what littletwang that I have as a southerner.
but then just like all these little turnsof phrase and things that he says, like
the one that sticks out to me, one ofthe, one of the handful that sticks out
to me is rhyming shizert, like shirt withoutskirts in If You Ain't From My Hood.

(31:51):
Somebody pointed out that that'sactually, that's actually like a
pretty intense piece of poetry.
You got to be pretty smartto do some shit like that.
you know, somebody like Eminem getsa lot of credit for pretzeling words
and internal rhyme and stuff, but,there's like some really innovative
wordplay on this thing, but also.
it's just sort of halfway enoughbetween eighties and nineties, like I'm

(32:14):
repping, you know, reppity, reppity,rep, and where things got either more
complicated or more slurry down the line.
We're like a lot of it is really memorableand almost in a Will Ferrell movie kind
of way where we're like, you're going toremember lines from this almost certainly,
I'm gonna introduce me project pad.

(32:35):
I keep it real.
I'm gonna introduce you usethe sucker faking deals.
and even back in theday, like when people.
Hey, when the institution hatedSouthern rap and hated this kind
of shit, like Getty green got twoand a half out of five mics and 99.
And even in that review where they spendmost of it dogging on them, they say.
Pat should be given more credit fordeveloping a style that will easily stand

(32:57):
out in today's crowded world of MCs.
I think if nothing else grabs you,to your point, there's the clarity of
the sound and there's so many tightbeats and I think this was the, band,
so to speak, that launched a thousandcracked fruity loops downloads.
Because to your point, youfeel like you can do it, right?
You just put the hi hat, youput the hi hat four on the floor

(33:17):
hi hat, you find a good 808 you
like.

Cliff (33:20):
people are doing with Trap these days.
They listen to it, and youthink you can get there.
It's the, yeah.

Kyle (33:27):
That's right.
It's hard to make it lookeasy, but they do it.
and you have sort of a base B AS E with the hi hat and the kick.
And then in the middle, you have all theseweird ingredients that you can play with.
And you see throughout the recordthat they do a lot of different things
with that, you know, like weird.
and the other thing is also vocalclose, favorite thing to talk about.

(33:50):
you talk about skits the out thereskit right between chicken head and
cheese and dope top of the record.
I remember reading an interview withDonald Glover when Atlanta first came
out and there's the jail scene wherethe guy turns around and talks to him.
about why he got arrested and it'slike, you know, we got the two cans

(34:11):
and they was a big ones though.
There was a big ones though.
And he's like, I wanted to put somebodylike that in the show because I
feel like that accent won't exist.
Like people won't talk likethat 10 or 20 years from now.
And similarly, I appreciate havinggrown up around here, talking to
people at the breakfast place.
people aren't going to talk like accents.

(34:31):
Aren't going to be that thick anymorebecause of the internet and migration
and deregionalization and whatever.
So it's just like, I'm, I'm glad.
And it makes me want to like,talk more country, more twangy.
Like I did when I was a little kid.
just total, like I said earlier,idiosyncrasy and it's all,
it's all memorable for me.
So I, I guess the short answer is, yeah,I knew it was in my bones, but I was

(34:54):
surprised how in my bones it was like,shit, is this actually one of my like
top five favorite records of all time?
Maybe.

Cliff (34:59):
I had the cadence of, uh, If You Ain't From My Hood, You Can Get From
Around Here, so deep in my psyche thatI didn't remember it was a Project Pat
song, just a thing that goes on repeatin my head Well, when I want to hide my
thoughts inside of myself and saying athing like that as a refrain coming from

(35:21):
my person, uh, but it's like, it's mybrain's response to anybody who has shown
up and started acting like a jackass.
And so, yeah, to your pointdeeply embedded in everything.
If I can, though, uh, one thingthat also surprised me truly, um,

(35:42):
Man, I, we've started joking a littlebit about what if people who sort
of know us from other forums maketheir way into podcast episodes,
so here's another easter egg.
I highly recommend putting on Memphiship hop when you are in a meeting
where you mostly just have to listen.
It trivializes everythingin the best way possible.

(36:05):
I cannot explain what joyI got from trying this.

Kyle (36:08):
Hold on, like, like a zoom meeting, you're on mute and you just have it
playing.

Cliff (36:14):
Uh huh.
I

Kyle (36:16):
Oh man.

Cliff (36:19):
can't express the like, the reminder that you all of a sudden
get of like, Oh my god, we're juststaring into computers at each other
all the time, doing nothing, writingthings down so that we don't forget.
And just, Something aboutpairing it with this,

Kyle (36:38):
You're just like another project manager.
Like, Kim, there's people that are dying.

Cliff (36:42):
maybe that pulls on the threads of, I'll just speak for
myself here just in case, but likethe threads of history where yes,
we went through car culture time.
We also went through like this music.
Is the feeling and the soundtrackof going over to somebody's house to

(37:02):
smoke and like, if you don't know whatthat sentence means, this isn't going
to make a ton of sense, there was atime and people and place and culture,
like all of them had to combine.
But if you had the right combination,you would just get invited over and
then you just go to people's houses.
The pinnacle of activity thatcould occur or blossom from

(37:25):
that is a game of Halo that

Kyle (37:28):
was going to say video

Cliff (37:29):
be quit halfway through.
And like, that was it.
That's the whole activity.
And how long is this going to take?
Well, until we are back to feeling like wecan drive home to wherever we need to go.
That's how long it is.

Kyle (37:43):
Three games of Madden.

Cliff (37:45):
Yeah, yup, Halo or Madden was pretty much the option.
But like, also though, thatfeeling of, and I don't want
to oversell it, but it's true.
trying not to spend money, so you're justhanging out with other people who are also
trying not to spend money, and just chill.
And like, they're, they're,

Kyle (38:01):
when chips were a dollar, you could eat a whole big bag

Cliff (38:04):
I mean,

Kyle (38:04):
size

Cliff (38:05):
also true.
Yeah, yeah, you would nominate theleast, um, stoned person to go to the
gas station for you and talk to theattendant and count out the dollars and

Kyle (38:14):
Yeah,

Cliff (38:15):
Yeah.
Yeah.

Kyle (38:16):
crumpled into the tiniest ball in your pocket.

Cliff (38:18):
this it?
Yes?
Can we leave?
Okay.

Kyle (38:22):
it's too much, it's okay.
I'll figure it out.
Thank you.
Thank you for your service.

Cliff (38:27):
But yeah, I think especially if like us, you have some form of a
relationship viscerally to this music andthe location that it comes from and all
this stuff, that's something to pull onand a thread to pay attention to here.
If it isn't a part of yourcultural history, okay, cool.
That's fine.
You won't feel the same thing bydefault, but just like every other

(38:48):
single record we cover, there areentry points that you can go in
through and you at the very least willaccumulate appreciation as you go along.
But more than likely, you're going tofind If not, that you like this record
in particular, which we highly recommend,you'll find that you like some offshoot,
something in the 3 6 Memphis sphere,you're going to attach yourself to, and

(39:13):
you're going to find a new, uh, love for.
Probably an area of hip hop you don't payattention to, because they don't talk all
fast and glitchy like they do these days.

Kyle (39:21):
So I guess let's get into the DNA of it a little.

Cliff (39:23):
Please.

Kyle (39:24):
we've already touched on Project Pat Flow.
I think breaking downwhat that is a little bit.
You'll hear it immediately.
But it's all the things like, you know,Pat would say that's like one of 15 flows.
But, Having had it so ingrained, itwas like hard to find reference points

(39:46):
for it that, you know, it would becool if it were like this other thing.
And like, I was thinking about two things.
The only other artists that I can think ofthat uses their voice like an instrument
in that way, and it not feel like spokenword or beat poetry bullshit is Tom Waits.

Cliff (40:02):
Oh, shit.

Kyle (40:04):
intonation and character of a voice.
it allows them to inhabit a truth.
and then I also thought aboutFela, talking and toasting
and that sort of style.
that was so, so, so grounded in truth.
And you'll hear Pat talk about howit was easy to come up with it.
And it made me think again about Atlanta.

(40:26):
You know, the, the concept of likepeople who are trying to rap, people
who are trying to get into it versuslike people that are like, Oh, I can
do this and make money doing this.
And Pat is definitely in the lattercategory and he just happened
to be smart and talented at it.
But I think the thing that you'll noticeabout Pat versus other people in the
Hypnotized camp, Juicy J, DJ Paul, LordInfamous, Crunchy Black, Gangsta Boo,

(40:47):
Somebody said, while 3Six's raps oftenfelt like supernatural hyperbole, and
you mentioned Horrorcore they're tellingstories around murder and, satanic rites
and sort of like, shock value shit.
There's none of that with Pat.
It's very like, I went and did,you know, there's the story.
In aggravated robbery aboutFred, it's all like that.

(41:10):
or in the interlude telling the storyabout the chick that got arrested for
boosting checks, it's just all real life.
They said Pat was alwaysgrounded in reality and harsh
truths about the streets.
And that's not to say that you shouldfeel some type of way about it.
It shouldn't be urban horror porn,nor should you glamorize it, like
suburban parents were so afraidof their kids doing for so long.

(41:31):
But it just is what it is you know,point out the window it's life out
there So there's that and then thetwo other things that I would point
out are you mentioned crazy samples?
Like there's crazy musical samples,but there's so many film samples.
There's so many more film samples Not justof dialogue, you know, which like punk
bands we loved growing up did that I thinkabout like how I think Norma Jean started

(41:52):
with the network sample when they wouldplay live So there's that sort of shit
layered in, but then it's very clear thatthey just had stuff on at the studio and
they had their own studio so they couldjust like vibe all day and all night.
And it's just like, Oh, that's dope.
Let's put that in there.
There's such an obvious error of that.
So you have, An interpolation of thescore from Blood In Blood Out, like

(42:15):
a deep cut, really shitty JLB movie.
You have that in So High.
the sort of like weird Latinrhythm is from Blood In Blood Out.
You have Carlito's Wayand Aggravated Robbery.
You have Scarface in a lot ofThree 6 songs, but in Ski Mask.
You have The Omen, which is like crazy.

(42:36):
These guys are sitting around Stonewatching a show like The Omen.
I would never.
Uh, you have the Omen, the weird, is theweird choir thing in We Ain't Scared, Ho.
You have Roman Polanski's TheNight Gate with Johnny Depp,
two great folks to invoke.

Cliff (42:49):
You can get from around here, bud.

Kyle (42:51):
you can get from around here.
Yeah.
So in, in, if you ain't frommy hood, you have Wes Craven's
New Nightmare in Break the Law.
And then you have the interestingstring line in Cheese and Dope is
from The Perfect Storm, the GeorgeClooney Nor'easter boating movie.
which is like so, so of its time andinteresting, but like, I would say all of

(43:12):
that adds up to just like a smartness, acuriosity, they're just chasing after a
bunch of stuff and they're not one note.
and I think that is reflected in someof the diversity of the sounds that
you hear on this palette of beats.
And then the last thing I would say is,maybe this was a thing that surprised me
as well, how self referential the shit is.
You know, even within a song, so theydo a lot of like North Memphis or like

(43:36):
North, North, across all their shit, like,you know, Sonic branding, almost like
a producer tag, before their collectiveand then in don't save her, you know,
it's maybe a chicken and egg situation,but the ain't nothing going on, but
the money and the power is in the hook.
It's sampled in the hook, butthen it's Part of Crunchy Black's
verse and like maybe that wasfrom an earlier thing and reused.

(43:56):
Maybe not So it's either like Referencedand pulled into another thing or
they've taken the vocals and they'vechopped it into a beat element Which
in and of itself is really interesting.
So you have that and the break the law weain't playing or you had the like so hot
so so so hot and That's inventive, youknow, like using your own voice sampling.

(44:17):
That means they were like reallyIn the studio fucking around until
they came up with new stuff andthat's really compelling to me

Cliff (44:24):
At the risk of putting an overly fine point on it, in case someone's
having trouble locking into the kindof cadence and flow that we're talking
about, With project pat like I didlike your sample in your example.
It was good.
But like basically the on the kindof fourth beat More times than not,

(44:46):
there's just one long, like, theequivalent of like a quarter note.
at the end of bars, he slows it down anddrags it out and does a little something
different with the rhythm earlieron in all of those, you know, bars.
And I think, again, I, uh, it, italmost feels, Like, morally corrupt to

(45:09):
be verbalizing things like this, but

Kyle (45:11):
You use that analogy one time with frank ocean turning the lights on in
space mountain It's a little it's alittle bit of that but I don't know.
This, This, episode could easilybe 60 minutes of that's dope.
That's dope.
Oh, and that dope that's dope.
So like, it's nice to think.
I also, I don't know if youfeel this way, but I felt kind

(45:32):
of bummed that there was not.
Hardly any like really criticalanalysis of this stuff.
You know, I feel like not alot has really done justice to
everyone notices the influence, butnobody's trying to get how and why.
so think we're both curious about that.
And let's just say it's like, it's allhomage to how great we think this shit is.

Cliff (45:54):
Yeah.
For sure.
even trying to draw out the, the rhythmof his cadence, like two things are worth,
or I think are worth drawing out from thatrelative to what you were just saying.
And like the lack of just like critical.
Praise or appreciationfor some of this stuff.
So, okay.
So one, uh, the reason it's worth likedigging into the cadence, even if you

(46:15):
don't immediately get it, or if you'resort of like, I don't give a shit about
what you're talking about right now.
Okay.
But okay, let's, let's draw a contrastwith even something you just said,
Kyle, which is like the just raw amountof critical praise or review of this
like era of music is in specificallyfrom Memphis on the other hand.

(46:38):
You mentioned Outkast.
the other side of what was evolving outof Southern hip hop, uh, which was, you
In some forms, like a mild precursorto OutKast, OutKast took a different
approach, I mean, even just betweenBig Boi and Dre they took different
cadence approaches to how they rapped,and like, those things became traceable

(47:04):
and distinguished in different branchesof southern hip hop, and like, so much,
I mean, Constant theme of our podcasthere is like the way that you can see
outcasts and everything, basically, um,and like all that's still true and there's
nothing to, to take from that otherthan to say there are at the same time,

(47:25):
other supportive cultural moments thatwere taking off that may not have ever,
you know, surfaced in your life becausethree, six never eventually made fucking.
Hey, y'all.
So like, it didn't like comeup for pop culture air where

Kyle (47:40):
That's never won an Oscar though.

Cliff (47:44):
Touche, but like whether it's the cadence of the delivery or whether it's
just like, you'll clearly be able to hearthe difference in the production in what
we just talked about in terms of wheresamples are coming from, how things are
sampled, how the production is done.
We've talked about the beatsand how they're all approached.
Like every single one of those things.

(48:04):
Fundamentally different in a slightlydifferent branch of southern hip hop and
created like multiple genres of musicthat we'd all come to love and appreciate.
So in one sense, even just if thisdidn't catch your radar, I think
understanding its proximity to somethingelse important and recognizing as well
that like, Just the way that you couldrecognize a three sacks verse now when

(48:29):
he decides to appear or when he usedto decide to appear on records, like
you can recognize project Pat in thesame way, even if you don't know how
to put your name or that name to it.
And I think.
Like one immediate cool example, youknow, hip hop, you can always do the sort
of like this song samples or is sampledby, and you can chase things that way.

(48:52):
but like one thing that's fun hereis like kind of influence chasing.
So.
One good example of Megan Thee Stallion'sSouthside Forever Freestyle from 2021.
Okay, literally, like we got,we got to drop this in like
at one minute and 43 seconds.
She does four bars of cadenceand like it is Project Pat.

(49:12):
And like once you just have thatbaseline appreciation for what
Pat was doing with his cadenceand why it became recognizable.
It becomes like reallycool to see it surfaced.
as homage in modern hip hop.
Like, this shit is still importantto important people who are
doing cool things in music.

Kyle (49:32):
I definitely want to get back to the influence bit that's really the big thing.
I think now, doubling downon a couple of your points.
One, I would say, if you are very prooutcast, very neutral or whatever this,
I'm not a Southern studies or God forbidan African American studies major,
but if I were, I might say somethinglike, You know, if you're looking at

(49:56):
southern futures or whatever, outcastsis Afrofuturist, pro topian, and this is
more dystopian or real, but they all existin the same sort of cinematic universe.
and they, they really do belong together.
And there's a little nuggetthat I think threads those two
sides of the yin yang together.
And.

(50:17):
It's how like connected all theSouthern subcultures were Memphis,
Houston, Alabama, Mississippi,New Orleans, and Atlanta, and then
Southern and Northern Florida.
the very first thing that you hearon this record is a sample of a
New Orleans bounce record from theearly nineties on chicken head.
The all right, all right, all right,all right, all right, all right.

(50:39):
Is a sample from another culture, andit would be very easy knowing like the
insularity of a lot of music scenesto be like, that's not our turf.
We should only do stuff from Memphis,but that is really the nature
of the like Southern rap gumbo.
It could come from everywhere.
The other thing that I will say is wekeep talking about the project Pat flow,
and I don't want to run the risk of.

(51:02):
People thinking it's aone trick pony thing.
That's what he does all the time.
Or it's the only thing that he can do.
thinking about what tofocus on or isolate.
I would listen for the moments he switchesup into something else idiosyncratic and
a couple of examples of that that reallystand out to me are on so high, the sort
of Latin beat where he chooses to followthe rhythm and the melody the whole time.

(51:22):
And it's like one of the first reallylike weird beats, and then on ski mask,
it's got this Weird rhythm in the choruswhere it's a bunch of kick You know,
there's like three quarters of the place.
You feel like it should be a snareIt's all kicks and he they're all like
speed bumps that he goes over With hiscadence and it reminded me of misty

(51:43):
mountain hop by zeppelin Where it's afucked up rhythm The John Paul Jones
brought to the group and I rememberthe story of Bonham being like, I
have no idea how to play over that.
So I'm just going to play in four and thedrums and plant go in four over this weird
and it creates this weird swirly thing.
And there's a bit of that, like,I don't know what to do with this

(52:05):
weird shit that you did juicy.
So I'm just going to drive straightover the speed bumps and it works.
It's a different thing.
There's like, there's tension.
Between those two things.
And it's really cool.
And if you, and if none of that doesit for you, then the last thing I
would say to look for amidst themenacing atmosphere is sense of humor.
There's funny shit all overthis record in the same way.

(52:27):
The show Atlanta is very funny,darkly funny, still billed
as a comedy because whatever.
we'll start with chicken head.
That sounds funny as shit.
second verse where Pat and LeChak goback and forth and they're drawing
at each other is funny and universal.
And if you don't get why it'sfunny, go get on Tik and search
for the chicken head audio andwatch the thing where the boyfriend
and girlfriend will do the verse.

(52:49):
And then they'll switch outfits whenit's time for the other one to talk.
It's like people inherently get.
The comedy, the real human comedy in it.
the one that always gets me iscrunchy black's verse and ski mask.
There's just something so again, guy in aparking lot, funny as fuck about the way
that he talks about committing a robbery.
That's just like really,really works for me.

(53:09):
And then there's comedy inthe juxtaposition of Pat's.
Some of his really gritty lyrics and thenthe sound of I remember being a teenager
and hearing a beat like life we live Thatjust sounded like weird smooth jazz type
stuff and I didn't learn till much laterabout life we live which was kind of the
song one of the songs that like Broughtthis record back into orbit in the tiktok

(53:30):
era It samples, it really versions morethan anything, a Curtis Mayfield song
from his final album, came out in 96.
So it would have been likestill very of this era.
And it was Curtis's only albumafter he was paralyzed in 1990.
And he recorded the vocals for thesong, pretty much line by line punching
in, lying on his back because hewas paralyzed from the neck down.

(53:50):
And the hook of that song is thelife we live is oh, so beautiful.
And Pat takes that song and does it inearnest is talking about like what you
said about the interview earlier he'stalking about how he's fucked up in his
life, but he doesn't regret it and Likelife is still beautiful because I'm
still here to see it in spite of allthe things that I've done And I think I
just had to be much older and go throughmuch more shit It was just one of those

(54:12):
things that it was funny in the way thatlike I didn't get why Barry White Or
Marvin Gaye was sexy until I got olderAnd there's just something lived in
about it that you can feel in your bones.

Cliff (54:24):
If I may, go

Kyle (54:25):
You may.

Cliff (54:27):
If I can just click a little bit further though in to chicken head,
even as an example for more things tofocus on and sort of, Be spread out
by, so to speak, uh, and look at allthe different things that it touched
and was influenced by, you know, we'vealready mentioned so far, like I said,
I was pretty blown away by the samples.

(54:47):
You listed an incredible list of moviesoff the top to begin with, but even the,
I don't know if, if it's the, 2001 nessof this record or some other aspect of it

Kyle (55:01):
Pre 911, by the way.

Cliff (55:03):
but chasing the samples even just on chicken head is Endlessly fascinating
to me, so on one hand you've got Agood portion of the rhythm and some
bass comes from a too short song in 88called Cusswords, which is just, once
again, like I'm just being straight.
Uh, I don't mean this in any sortof dismissive or disrespectful way.
It was a funny song.

(55:23):
It's funny.
some of this rap is funny from some ofthese particular times and like Listening
to the way that we used to talk aboutsexually explicit things versus the
way that we do now, just like reallygives me a tickle in the funniest ways.
Um,

Kyle (55:43):
You would have been uncomfortable about that in an older episode.

Cliff (55:47):
and then you mentioned, all right, the vocals that are right at the
beginning, the like, all right, sample,was taken from a song called Bitches
Reply by DJ Jimmy from New Orleans.
That song itself was a responseto MCTT Tuckers, Where They At?
And like, once again, I, I just, as I wentdown this, as I descended this ladder into

(56:12):
90s and 80s rap, Possibly hell, all of thelyrics are hilarious to me, all the way

Kyle (56:19):
It's party records, right?
It's culture shit.
Yeah.

Cliff (56:22):
but just like, I am a capital S serious music person
a lot of the time, right?
Like, I like serious music,I like weird, artsy stuff.
So, to have a different

Kyle (56:34):
Yeah,
Guys with nice guitar cases thatwent to Berkeley with two E's.

Cliff (56:38):
and just like, if I'm being honest with myself, I can have like
an elitist streak about stuff, likedude, if you're not going to take this
seriously, I don't want to fuck withit, and like, so I have a hard time, and
for whatever reason, the like, portalof Project Pat and 3 6 takes me places

(56:58):
where I can enjoy and appreciate this ina different way, I don't have to think
it's incredible or interesting or serious.
but, but something different aboutit, uh, gave me a different type of
joy in chasing music that I don'tnecessarily automatically get with
hip hop just cause they sample stuff.
And so I loved doing that.

(57:19):
I loved being surprised by the waythe production has changed over the
years from that like string of samples.
But then on the other hand A coupleof things, or one thing you mentioned
earlier as well, like the tracks thatI just mentioned also helped laid
the foundation for like bounce musiccoming out of New Orleans, right?
And so, you know, some, I thinkexamples of that not, not only

(57:42):
LaChatte but like Hot Boys.
And then I hadn't really thought aboutit this way, but Uh, I saw, uh, Gasoline
Dreams be referred to as, like, a sortof descendant of that bounce, which I
thought was cool to, like, okay, now we've

Kyle (57:56):
Jimi Hendrix made a bounce song.

Cliff (57:59):
Yeah and then

Kyle (58:01):
Also, did you know that I only know this because I saw on the
YouTube video of that DJ Jimmy songthe B side of that record features
an early juvenile in the early 90s.
So like the lineage is kind of all there.
It's, it's like people pulling each otherup and apprenticing each other and stuff.

Cliff (58:20):
yeah, and the, let's see, the like, it sounds like bells or xylophone,
the kind of instrumentals that's onChickenhead that comes from Biz's Reply
is itself a sample taken from a songcalled Drag Rap by the Showboys who was,
uh, Queens rap group from the eighties.
I mean, you can really ride thesesongs all the way down to like

(58:42):
some of the beginnings of hip hop.
and to your point though, like we just,even just on one song, on the biggest song
on this record, chasing just one thread,we've already ended up back in Queens,
which is not necessarily what you wouldhave expected from this era of hip hop.
And to your point, It is culturallyspecific and local but it was actively

(59:07):
absorbing things from anywhereelse that hip hop was taken off.
And like, it's just, Tome, it's always cool.
If you hold up a microscope to hip hop,you just, you find a whole lot of stuff
you didn't expect to be in the littlePetri dish that you're looking at.
And I

Kyle (59:21):
There are a few genres that can make you learn as much as quickly, and
that's one of the great things about it.
Just the speed of inspiration to twothings that got me really excited.
Just then one, there's that Bauerguy that I guess his claim to
fame is the Harlem Shake beat,but he on Tick Tock deconstructs
samples of in a really good way.

(59:41):
Like he's worth a follow if you'reinto sample stuff at all, but he
always recommends doing the, whatelse use the sample of a drum break.
The interesting thing about drag rapis juicy has used some portion of
drag rap, easily 20 times in 25 years.
It's all over it.
So it's like more ofthat self sonic imprint.
It's a building block he has puta bunch, bunch, bunch of places.

(01:00:05):
I don't remember what the other thing was.
Too excited.

Cliff (01:00:08):
I can only hope to repay a small amount of the excitement that you
managed to give me literally as just akid with subwoofers about this record.
I will just never get over it.
I'm just, I'm endlesslypersonally delighted that we're
finally talking about this one.
So what else?
Is worth paying close attention to whenyou listen to this music outside of,

(01:00:29):
we've sort of talked about flow andcadence, we've talked a little bit about
talked a lot about samples and, uh,different regional hip hop influences
and things like that, but maybe, from theproduction angles, anything stand out to
you that we haven't talked about so farthat's worth paying close attention to?

Kyle (01:00:47):
Probably the last two things, if none of the other things have
stuck to your ribs yet, are,they're both songcraft things.
One is that these songs have hooks.
They are very memorable.
Chickenhead's very memorable.
Don't Save Her is very memorable.
If you ain't from myhood, it's very memorable.
certainly the ones where Naman Lumpkinsings like Life We Live and Gorilla Pimp.

(01:01:11):
Very memorable.
Short, simple, no realcomplexity, not too many bars.
plain spoken, very punchy.
I mean, hell, I feel like one ofthe, one of the longer, more complex
hooks is like Cheese and Dope.
Because it's got four lines to itand you maybe sometimes I forget the
sequence of them What you need bro?
But there are hooks it's really if youcan get past the grit of it, it's really

(01:01:35):
poppy They have great pop sensibilities,which feels like an insane thing
to say, but they really do And, allcredit to the musicality of these guys.
We're talking about like DJ, Paultook piano lessons at age 13, Lord
infamous who's DJ Paul's half brother.
So, but you know, again, very smallcommunity, Lord infamous learned to sing
and play bass and guitar by 15 and theywere making compositions like before

(01:01:57):
they could drive wholesale compositions.
So if you listen to trap shitnow, I don't want to be like, it's
watered down because there's alot of great production from like.
Band play, Honorable C note, certainlythe Metro Boomins of the world, like
there's a tremendous lineage of southernproducers now But like I would say the
closest lineage in terms of musicalsophistication It's probably Zaytoven

(01:02:20):
and Zaytoven's ability to play the pianothe way that he does if you watch Gucci
Mane's Tiny Desk There's a deceptivemusicality and I think you see it in So
like take the blueprint, the other thingI was going to say is the blueprint of
the hypnotized mind sound 808 nowhere.
You're going to get a better trunk,not base check 808 example, then
break the law when it really getsgoing straight line, one tone, people

(01:02:43):
will hear you from down the block.
and I guess that's a bit of a side note.
Like if you've never had an experiencewhere you've been in a car with somebody
that like the base physically takesyour breath away and your sternum.
Ride with somebody in the car.
Listen in to Southernrap or go to a sun show.
so you got 8 0 8 and then we mentionedthe four on the floor, high hat.
And then you have theseunusual synth atmospheres or

(01:03:04):
really melodic keyboard lines.
the one that I didn't know was,and I think it's on ski mask.
The one that I didn't know was a sample.
Was a sample of late 80s Sabbath,like, of course I didn't recognize it
because I stopped listening after likeSabbath, bloody Sabbath or something.

Cliff (01:03:23):
sorry, I saw today, uh, where, uh, someone was posting a video of, uh, an M.
I. A. video released from about 13 yearsago, and now the ongoing meme is just to
pretend that she passed away after that.

Kyle (01:03:40):
did.
We got clone MIA like
Gucci, but it's way
worse.

Cliff (01:03:45):
they're just like, R. I. P. What a good video.

Kyle (01:03:48):
Honestly, honestly, I'm, I'm going to start dropping that into episodes.
All right.
RIP MIA.
MIA is MIA.
Damn.
Anyway, the song was nightmare byblack Sabbath and it's like weird.
There's so many times where they pickthe preset on the keyboard that like when

(01:04:08):
I was taking piano lessons growing up.
And coming home to practice on my Casiokeyboard is like, whoops, get that one.
Like, don't ever use 42.
That sounds weird as shit.
That sounds like, the guy atchurch is trying to do something
different and it's too different.
It's like the weird crystals or whatever.
There's so much of that.
It's just, there is afearlessness to that.
That's just like, I know they werestoned enough to be like, you know what?

(01:04:30):
That sounds dope.
Let's go with it.
And then it just works.
Then they just build around weird sounds.
So, this would be a reallygood beat tape, I think.
Cause you, could just kind oflive in the worlds of the beats.
That's it.
anything else for you that wehaven't covered at this point?

Cliff (01:04:46):
We might as well start attempting to point at the, 10
million distinct possibilitiesof where to begin going next.
although before we do that,maybe I'll just encourage people.
the exercise of the music calendarthat we talk about is, well, I mean,
obviously we fucking think it's cool.
We did it.

(01:05:06):
It's helpful.
Right.
But like one of the reasons we'vetalked about it being cool is that.
Sometimes there's, there's an aspectof listening to music that you don't
necessarily get access to until youtry to have a discipline about it.
And the discipline of listeningto a record that comes to you

(01:05:27):
every day, as opposed to just likevibing your way through Spotify,
produces something different.
Like your experience is justfundamentally different when you, when
you approach it a little bit differently.
And so similar.
To that sort of idea of thing for thisrecord I want to especially encourage you
if the first listen or two is like I'm notgetting it just immerse Start immersing

(01:05:50):
if you need to spread out a little bitaround like 3 6 or whatever do it if you
want to go back to like music style ormystic styles from 95 Which I totally did
do it but like It was a, Differently from,listening to the Grace Jones record enough
to break into a new form of appreciation,like, sort of distinct from that, what

(01:06:12):
happened here is I, I felt like I kind oflike leaned back into it after a while.
once the real cadence of all of thosebeats, I got used to it again, in the way
that I used to get used to it on a prettyregular basis, or have it at a particular
time of the afternoon every day.
it unlocks something different and I wantto encourage other people like you can

(01:06:34):
You don't have to become a fan of thismusic if you don't love it, but a few
of you are going to brute force your waythere and be surprised on the other side.
And I'd love the opportunityto encourage people to do it.
And like you said, yes, if you can getin front of a subwoofer that is so loud
that you cannot communicate to anyonearound you, that is the ideal context.
But you can step down from thereand still have a good time.

Kyle (01:06:57):
You raise an excellent point there.
That there is an enormouscinematic universe.
With three, six and hypnotize campthat there, is an entry point for 99
out of a hundred people alive wheresomething about this will hit you.
You can go all the way back tothe early to mid nineties to back
when they were lo fi and find someof that cool, hard lo fi shit.

(01:07:19):
You can find, a beat somewherealong the timeline that is the
beat that you put on a playlist.
That nothing else sounds like it.
think of an early thing, like ridingthe Chevy would be an example for me.
I just love the beat.
Just listen to it all the time.
There could be a funny thing gangstabooze, where them dollars at,
you know, just like another funnychicken head slice of life type song.

(01:07:41):
or it could be any point in thisearly to mid 2000s where like.
Hypnotized camp was on a generational runwith tell the club up dogs who run it.
The head buses, little white, ifthat's your flavor, little white
eventually gave us jelly roll.
So, know, maybe apologies for that.
but it culminated, like we mentionedwith an Oscar win for the song

(01:08:02):
and hustle and flow in 2006.
But like they're putting outwhole records of, of really
incredible beats and soundscapes.
And you can find something like you cando an enormous 300 song playlist and just
think about the fact that they all madeall these songs in this short amount of
time, locked in like the soul query andjust making beats all day and all night.

(01:08:23):
And there's something in therethat you're like, Oh, that's dope.
That's really cool.
I'm into that.
and there's enough there that I,think speaks to the reason that
they have had such widespreadand deep cultural influence.

Cliff (01:08:35):
I have a fun idea.
Let's, uh, let's use Drake asa stepping off point so that we
don't have to stand near him.
because, One of the, again, bajillionways we can start heading downhill
is 2021's Knife Talk, right,which Project Pat showed up on by
Drake, uh, on Certified Loverboy.

(01:08:57):
All that sucks, pointbeing, what I'm saying is if

Kyle (01:09:00):
The song doesn't suck.
It's a good song,
unfortunately.

Cliff (01:09:03):
exactly.
Okay, but what we're going to do is makeKnife Talk the inside of the black hole.
So, take me away from there and showme any of the places I can go from
here to start going down rabbit holes.
What?

Kyle (01:09:22):
marriage.
He's the kid from suburban Torontothat has no business being in this
world anymore than Cliff and I do.
and if you need to see whetheror not he's real, then just watch
the Knife Talk video and see howhe holds the literal knife in it.
Baby's first Halloween costume.
Um, also, Knifetalk was supposed tobe on 21 Savage's Savage Mode 2, and

(01:09:48):
Drake, like he's done so many othertimes, colonized it for himself.
If you go back to the worst behaviorvideo, he uses Memphis, the city and
project Pat and juicy J the people ascred props in the background of that
for the song, worst behavior from I,from now, but nothing was the same.
I want to say still lookinglike the guy from Degrassi in a

(01:10:08):
hockey Jersey and backwards hatin that just like a frat boy.
Parachuting in, and then that's noteven the most egregious defense.
The worst is the songlook alive by black boy.
JB.
Great song.
Hey, how much I love it.
where he wholesale you talk aboutMegan doing a four bar homage
wholesale uses a pat verse that if Ifuck up, I'm gonna be downtown Maine.

Cliff (01:10:32):
J. Cole used a line for a hook, but that's pretty different from what

Kyle (01:10:36):
interpret it, you know, doing, doing the luxury interpolation.
It's not that.
It's the energy.
There's something about the energy of it.
You know, Catalina wine mixersgoing great, but there's something
about your face wants me to landone right in your suck hole.
we hate Drake on this podcast.
Uh, okay, but movingaway from the black hole.
I'd like to immediately startmoving toward the silver lining.

(01:10:59):
Pat himself, obviously does not sharethis disdain, um, and so maybe it's not
our place to, maybe it's not our placeto, but I, I will never get rid of it.
Sorry.
Pat said specifically, Imess with Drake Daddy though.
Drake Daddy mess with everybody down here.
He said of Dennis Graham, OG,he be downtown kicking it.

(01:11:19):
Look, and ain't nothinggoing to happen to him.
Nothing.
Ain't nobody gonna messwith Drake Daddy, bruh.
Nobody, man.
No.
You're gonna get flatlined.
They don't play that, cause see,Drake shows too much love down here.
So I can respect that.
Maybe it's all genuine.
But from there, I think the two thingsthat I would point out is like, if you

(01:11:40):
have listened to Rap Caviar on Spotify,or if you listen to rap radio anywhere,
or been to a public venue playing rapanywhere, In the past 15 years, you're
going to hear something from somebody wholoves and has taken influence from Pat.
Gucci Mane basically said, I got my,like, when I saw Pat rapping as simply

(01:12:02):
as he did, I knew I could do it.
The Migos, there is an offsetsong where he Straight up,
borrows from Pat and Miko's tonof influence from Hypnotized Camp.
A$ AP Rocky, A$ AP Mob, very easyto draw that straight line back.
21 Savage, probably to me theclosest spiritual successor to Pat
in terms of the realness and theuniqueness and simplicity of Flow.

(01:12:25):
And talking about violence, plainly,obviously future and then Travis Scott.
So that that's one whole school, letyou know, the 10, 15 years ago, and now.
Dominant in terms ofinfluence on their own.
But then I'd also say like Memphisis really having a moment directly
through people like Glorilla, throughpeople like the late young Dolph, who.

(01:12:45):
you see white girls rappingDolph at their wedding now.
That's sort of a phenomenonon the internet lately, which,
I have mixed feelings about.
Key Glock, who's, you know, like arguablythe king of Memphis of this generation.
You have Duke Deuce, who quite famously,you know, Sampled If You Ain't From My
Hood, for the Crunk Ain't Dead song,and did that incredible dance where he

(01:13:06):
like, they revive him off the table.
Uh, and then extending to other placeslike Houston, you have Megan Thee
Stallion, like you mentioned, you haveBig X The Plug, you have Tia Kareen.
Also for Memphis, you have DenzelCurry sort of in that atmosphere.
I think Denzel Curry is maybe fromFlorida, definitely from somewhere else,
but like the Glorilla record that blewup so big last year, there's Pat all

(01:13:29):
over that three, six, all over that.
Like, yeah.
Glow is Juicy J's.
Yeah.
Oh, interpolation to passstuff all over there.
And she's a Titan in her own, right?
Like, I don't, I don't want to takeaway from her very unique thing, but.
Her birthful spirit is, uh, directly inthe spirit, the lineage of Memphis rap.
What else?
Have we touched on allcorners of the influence?
What else is there?

Cliff (01:13:50):
Everything I think to hit, we've hit over the course of our
conversation, but like I've said, my,knowingly at a sort of disadvantage
for knowing exactly how to look intothis particular kaleidoscope, but the
unexpected outcome of that has been.
which, boy, I'm gonna have funtrying to say this in a way that
doesn't make me feel pretentious.

(01:14:11):
getting better at appreciating music,we have talked about this, comes
with a lot of really positive things.
like a lot of them, sincerely.
However, your level of, like,genuine surprise, Decreases
a little bit over time.
You like, you know things.
You know
You, you start Yeah, And you start toget a feel for things, even when you

(01:14:34):
don't know them, sort of like you can,you can drive into a town you've never
been in before, but you sort of knowwhere everything is, just because you've
been to a lot of towns, and you'retrying to get good at visiting towns.
this one has brought back the senseof like, uh, you don't know shit, bud.
You don't know anything.
You don't even begin to knowwhat you think that you know.

(01:14:57):
Uh, and so.
Um, we talk so much about kind of goingin different directions, especially
through time that an artist will sendyou on and, you know, we, we've recently
talked about a couple of episodes ago,we talked about Paramore and how we.
We covered, you know, their latest record,at least at the time of that recording,
uh, and we sort of used it as a windowto look as far back as we wanted to look

(01:15:20):
at and see a bunch of different moments.
like, like you've described, likethe, the cinematic universe feel
of everything around Project Pat,Juicy J, Three 6, anything like that.
Feels, you know what?
We're gonna, we're gonna dork for it.
Okay?
Because you said cinematic universe.
It does actually remind me of theperiod of time in between me finding

(01:15:42):
out that the Marvel movies had athread and me reading like all of the
comic books that they stole it from.
in that little period of time, itwas like, Oh, there's a bunch of shit
hiding in here that I don't understandyet, and I'm willing to, like,
watch this dumbass movie three timesjust to catch this little reference
in here because it's interesting.

(01:16:03):
And it, like, kind of givesme something to explore.
And there's no one, like,there's no test coming.
There's no one here telling meI should know this, or I should
have already known, or whatever.
So I can just sort of, like, Explore untilI get saturated with the realization of
all the little secrets that are in here.
Um, and now I can watch themmake, 30 TV series that don't have

(01:16:24):
anything to do with anything anymore.
Point being, that is a lot of thesensation I get from this, again.
And maybe, like I've admittedseveral times, maybe that does just
connect really tenderly to like avery particular moment in my life.
And like, I have a, I have a genuinelove for 16 year old me and the type of

(01:16:45):
dude that he was and what he was tryingto do and how he was trying to live.
And like, this gives me notonly that feeling, but then just
like, I feel like I am just.
Awash in places to go and things tothink about in hip hop to listen to
and artists that I haven't heard Eventhough i'm thinking about artists.

(01:17:05):
I haven't heard that are from the late90s or early 2000s Not too many things
get, like, reinvigorate that sense ofinfinity for me anymore in music, it
has such a, like, don't give a shitattitude the whole time that it really
feels uncanny, uh, for this to have thatlevel of effect on it, but, like, going

(01:17:27):
back and having, like we've talked aboutso much, whether it's the new forms of
audio output that just, Actually soundgood, or ways of like perusing music
that we didn't have when this album cameout and things like that, like, it just
reignites that feeling of possibilityin music and the thing that makes me

(01:17:49):
love music in a way that I'm sure otherpeople love art, but that we're constantly
trying to express, which is otherwiseexperienced as a pretty nonverbal thing,
but just like, man, it shows up here.

Kyle (01:18:01):
I'm going to be talking about the universe and talking about physical
place, the like sensation of town you'vealready been in reminds me that before
we recorded, I think when we decidedlike, okay, we're finally going to talk
about this record, you mentioned offhand,another thing that I would have never
considered, which is a connection, aspiritual connection to Kendrick Lamar,

Cliff (01:18:19):
Oh, yeah.

Kyle (01:18:20):
expand on that, I wanted to save that a little bit, expand on What
that connection is for you, becauseI feel like almost as much as I love
project Pat, you love Kendrick Lamarand especially the really like place
based Kendrick that, you know, wetalked about in a previous episode,

Cliff (01:18:37):
totally.
Thank you for reminding me of that.
This is exactly one of those examplesof, I got surprised by the dots
that I started connecting in a
way that, Uh, oh, oh man.

Kyle (01:18:53):
I'm a dad.
I get one, an episode punched my punch

Cliff (01:18:56):
You get as many as you want, bud.
I just get to make thatsound after you do it.

Kyle (01:18:59):
Yeah, that's

Cliff (01:19:01):
maybe the easiest parallel to draw, like, Project Pad on this record,
we, we've talked about, is a lot oftimes, just like, telling a story.
And, It doesn't necessarily glorifyor try to gloss over the shittiness
of what the story is itself about.
It's just a story, and it'strue because he was there.
And like, similarly, when we talked aboutthe Good Kid, Mad City episode, when we

(01:19:27):
talked about the Art of Peer Pressure fromKendrick, and it's like, the, placeness
of a story, the feeling, and the cadence,and the sounds, and the production,
everything anchoring you in those moments,like in The Art of Peer Pressure, or,
some of the other examples on that albumin particular, like it's a very like

(01:19:48):
2000s Compton thing this is Kendrick.
He was this person, and you know, wetalked all about how the story gets
told there, but like, you know, he's,he's telling you a story about a person
and a group of people in a place, andthey're doing things together, and When
you hear it enough, and when you absorbenough of the sort of culture around
it, it has a ring of familiarity toit, and it feels like the place, and it

(01:20:13):
has you know, especially in Kendrick'sstories, like, it feels like you're
running somewhere, away from the cops,towards somebody There's a problem.
There's a thing.
There's something is sort of happeningand you're responding to it and
you get dropped into the middle ofthe story and here's Kendrick just
basically trying to kind of overwhelmyou with the feelings of that moment.

(01:20:34):
And so, similarly then, when ProjectPat will tell you a story, It feels like
you're sitting there in a lawn chair in aparking lot listening to him tell a story
while a beat plays in the background.
And like, it feels like Memphis, andeven though, you know, neither one of

(01:20:55):
us were kids growing up in Memphis inthe, you know, 80s and early 90s, like,
to me those two worlds, all of a suddenthere was like a wormhole between them.
it was just two variations of whatcan happen to individuals who end
up becoming people who are goodenough to write lyrics about it.
And like, so we get to peer backthrough those individual people

(01:21:16):
back into like, what it feltlike in those moments for them.
And you can tell that in so manyminutes, er, in so many moments for
Kendrick, those moments are Andalmost like fear or risk, right?
And when I hear a story about Memphis,it's sort of more like, well, yep,
that's the shit that happened yesterday.

Kyle (01:21:37):
Yep.

Cliff (01:21:38):
I'm alive.
So are you.
Today's today.
but it's not, that isn't itselfa statement about the story,
or judgment about the story.
It is a like, conceptualization of whatit felt like to live the story itself.
And then hear somebodytell you about it later.
And just like, again, just Even thatwas just one place where I started

(01:21:59):
seeing like, okay, Kendrick's noton the other side of that song,
pointing back at Project Pat,going, that's where I got this from.
But like, that's not how hip hop works.
And that's not how hip hop has to work.
And that's some of the magic of it,is like, you can see things reflected
unintentionally in other places, indifferent times, and in different

(01:22:20):
Cultures, but that are you know, closelyenough connected, like in this case, cars.
In one case, you'reusing cars as a getaway.
In another case, you're using cars assort of like a base camp to set up in.
And, like, even just finding thoselittle areas of connection help
me to like see and appreciate.
Even modern rap, totally differently that,you know, may stylistically be pretty

(01:22:45):
unique from, this record in particular,but, from a storytelling perspective
that matters as it relates to where thestory is taking place, and specifically
in this case for, cultures that I get tohave the, honestly, like the privilege
of hearing about in a genuine way.
those are really cool momentsand honestly, maybe if in my

(01:23:08):
moments of being too hard on hiphop, it's because I want more.
Of that sincerity and a little bit lessof a bitch's money fame, which is, I know
a pretty common complaint, but like, onceagain, here we are talking about a record
that honestly, isn't bitch's money fame.
Uh, there's a lot here, uh, andthere's a lot of genuineness and

(01:23:30):
sincerity about this that you canappreciate if you lean into it.

Kyle (01:23:34):
It also strikes me that, thinking about Kendrick and the
way you talked about movement,there's a sensation of movement, but
you feel physically in the world.
And part of that is sonic collage.
And I would love to give flowers toSmart hip hop storytellers that, if it's
the band can, or it's some band thathas a reputation for high art, for like

(01:23:57):
field recording and sound collaging.
like that tweet that got quotetweeted a lot for a while.
Like what's one thing that'sconsidered classy if you're
rich and trashy, if you're poor,you know, it's like, it's cool.
If it's art rock to do this kind of thing.
And it's sort of disregarded as like skitbullshit if it's on a hip hop record.
But the, the detail that we talked aboutGrace Jones and the, the dogs being

(01:24:21):
present in, in the argument at the bridge.
There's great examples ofthat on good get mad city.
You mentioned Vince Staples.
He does a lot of that stuff, you know,porch screen doors and that sort of thing.
but specifically like the bus pullingup in the out there skits, like a
detail they did not have to have,but it's there and it's all just like
real stuff happening in that world.

(01:24:44):
So there's that level of detailthat you can get to, to that
makes it that much more real.
And I think you make a good pointthat it's not the performance of real.
It's not the exaggeration of real.
That's like, this is how hard I am.
This is this aspirational stuffthat I'm doing, like getting money.
it just is what it is.
It doesn't try to makeyou feel the way about it.

Cliff (01:25:03):
so where do you want to send people from here?
Hopefully I've inspired them alittle bit to be willing to do it.
And, gave a pretty good Not apretty good, that's underselling it.
You have a really good overview of a lotof the modern places where you can end up.
But like, I guess if I were a generic meand you could like wind me up and point me
in a really specific direction after beinglike, I, everything's working for me, sir.

(01:25:26):
Why don't you send me in a new direction?
Thank you.
So like, what, what, what would youdo without having to defend why you
only chose one particular avenue,

Kyle (01:25:35):
yeah.
The first obvious answer is if you'redeciding that you like more hip hop.
You know, or, or a different fleet.
Like if you've been like a tribe Nas,whatever type person, and this has
been a cutoff Avenue for you, you cango back to four bears of Southern hip
hop and like street storytelling, hiphop, like eight ball and MJG is great.
Two shorts.

(01:25:56):
Great.
UGK is great.
NWA ghetto boys, Scarface,all stuff like that.
That's not where I thinkI would go next from here.
I have a playlist, my literal singlefavorite playlist that I play all
the time, like nights to go tosleep, when I have people over to
like hang out on the back porch.

(01:26:16):
It's called Blue Dream, named afterthe Juicy J record Blue Dream and Lean.
And Juicy got to this point as aproducer where he signaled that he was
going to do a soul sample based beat.
Like really soulful, not buriedin it, really oriented around
old school street soul, he wouldsay, play me some Peppermint and
that is how it would kick off.

(01:26:36):
And the point that I think Iwant to get people back to.
In a world of seeking community anda misunderstanding of we are allowed
to have a mix of feelings about theSouth, but I'm a proud Patriot of
the South thinking about that oldMaylene and the sons of disaster line.
Like I've traveled thecountry far and wide, but I'll
always be a son of the South.

(01:26:56):
I love who I am and I love who you are andwe wouldn't be the weird ass white boys.
We were, we are without having grownup in the sweet syrupy fucked up South.
I'm so proud of this place.
yeah, a lot of bad stuff has come fromhere, but like, I think all the best
stuff in the history of this deeplyimperfect nation has come from the South.

(01:27:18):
I'm like, I'll stand on businessabout that until the day that I die.
So I think just like the South isthe home of soul, capital S soul
in the country, soul movement,civil rights, all that stuff.
So like rediscovering the souland finding something to love.
about the American experiment hascome directly from all the ugliness.
you can start with the soul, like IsaacHayes, Ohio players, the OJs, Bobby

(01:27:42):
Womack, certainly Willie Hutch, who'sfinally at long last on streaming.
This stuff wasn't available other thanthe Mack soundtrack for a long time.
So I'm very excited about that.
The song sampled in Stay Fly.
Tell me why is our love turned cold?
All time stone cold.
Soul classic now on Spotify, butbeyond the music and like, spreading
out your stride a little expensivetime in the South, man, come down

(01:28:03):
here and not just passing through theairport, eat the food, meet the elder,
talk to the people at the food place.
Like we're talking about, like sitin a Waffle house for four hours.
Talk to an old person,appreciate the history.
and I say that cause like, I don't wantus to take for granted that this may not
be the music that you grew up around.
and all the world buildingimplications of that.
So I guess at least appreciate wherethis could have come from and like,

(01:28:24):
appreciate that it gave rise to whatPat is doing now, what his prison
ministry efforts, and just like takingthe reality of this album for what it
is, is as he says on the sort of seminalsong on this record, take the good
with the bad, smile with the sad, lovewhat you got and remember what you had

Cliff (01:28:40):
And go to Memphis.

Kyle (01:28:41):
and have a biscuit for us.