177. Raven - Casual Conversations - TWC Show

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
It.

Speaker 2 (00:00):
Me and Shane became really good friends and uh and
we started hanging out and and I was actually a
member of the original Mean Street Posse, which was which
were the same people, but it was it was the
behind the scenes, you know, yeah, like were they were
to Bean Street Posse before they were to Mean Street Posse,
you know, And I was I was remember.

Speaker 1 (00:36):
How we are back for another casual conversation with the Classic.
I'm here with a very special guest, someone that I
was a big fan of growing up being a nineties kid,
none other than one the only Raven. How are you
doing today?

Speaker 3 (00:48):
Good? How you doing?

Speaker 1 (00:50):
I'm good, I'm good. We've got tons of talk about.
You have your documentary coming out on November eighteenth on
Amazon Prize never More The Raven Effect, which I had
the pleasure of kind of seeing early, great documentary. Great
to see you spotlighted like that, and we'll talk about them.
But first things first, I ask everybody this just because
I am the Rustling Classic and I started my stuff
all in classic wrestling, and my audience is always of interest.

(01:13):
I just want to know for you personally, what were
your earliest memories of professional wrestling league? What do you
remember first seeing for you Keith J.

Speaker 3 (01:21):
Strongbow.

Speaker 2 (01:23):
Yeah, yeah, I'd love to watch him go in the
ward ends, like he'd get beat up and then like
you'd hope he would get beat up so that he
would get good to go on the ward ends, which
he did every time. But you know, you didn't know
that as a kid. But so he would go on this.
I don't know if you were familiar with him, but
his ward ends, he would like all of a sudden,

(01:44):
go into the nose cell. He would start doing like
a little Indian dance or what we thought was an
Indian dance time.

Speaker 3 (01:50):
I have no idea if it is.

Speaker 2 (01:52):
But like like the you know, the the legs going
up and down and bent over a little bit and gone,
and he starts shaking his head and then he'd get
attacked from behind and the guy blast him, and he
just keeps shaking it off, and then he guy blast him,
and he'd shake it off some more, and then he'd
blasted like a third time. Then he'd shake it off

(02:13):
and come back with a chop and then a chop,
and then I forget what.

Speaker 3 (02:17):
He would do next.

Speaker 2 (02:18):
I don't know if it was always the same as
long a hundred years ago and then he would uh
he would end up putting a sleeper in the guy.

Speaker 3 (02:25):
And putting him out. See like it was it was
so exciting.

Speaker 2 (02:29):
Not to hurt you, but it was so exciting because
the Superman come back as the best. Like if I
was ever gonna be a top baby face like for
a long time, I would have worked in the Superman
come back, which when I'd rather have been a heel,
and the Superman come back.

Speaker 1 (02:44):
Is no good for a heel, No no no, But
like that's now that you say it like that, like
for those that don't know Chief J. Strongbow's seen his work,
like it was basically pretty much like hulking up before
hulking up, like they would be hitting him the dance
the Warrior. It was.

Speaker 2 (03:01):
It was but like doing that because I think they
wanted the Warrior to do that.

Speaker 3 (03:06):
When Hope would hold up, he would it looked kind
of spastic.

Speaker 2 (03:09):
A little bit, you know what I mean, like and
it just like it was still good, but it wasn't
like ke K Strong but like you could believe as
a kid that Indians have magic powers, you know what
I mean? Yeah, and then he could he could summon
he could summon the powers and not selling, you know,
and stop feeling pain, you know for the next few minutes,
you know, and make his comeback. It was the the

(03:31):
best one best Superman comeback besides his was to me
was Lawlor in Memphis.

Speaker 1 (03:37):
Yeah yeah, yeah, that's true.

Speaker 2 (03:38):
But by what he would do when he would turn
heel is he would, uh he pull the strap off
and then he take a face plant.

Speaker 1 (03:46):
Yeah, because he like he was about to do it
and then he take the face Yeah.

Speaker 3 (03:51):
It was amazing.

Speaker 1 (03:52):
Ye yeah, yeah, it's it's awesome though, because that is true,
like those always, like even being on East Indian like
up in Job six, Like I just watched the document
entry on like Gama singing. It was the whole idea
of like you know, back in the eighties and stuff,
if you were from like if you were like Aboriginal
Native Indian or if you were from Asia or something
like you had powers you could do things like.

Speaker 2 (04:12):
Yeah, I thought it'd be hilarious, like if when they
had when they gave to award, they had all the
like Indian wrestlers show up, Yeah, gift to tonkas some award.

Speaker 1 (04:22):
When I was a producer, I remember that in the
early nineties.

Speaker 2 (04:26):
Yeah, in the early nineties. Yeah, and uh, and I
remember it was Chief J. Strongbow and I guess Billy
White Wolf and uh it was really an Indian.

Speaker 3 (04:36):
Uh, it was in Hindi. It was a palace.

Speaker 1 (04:39):
Uh what was he Iranian?

Speaker 3 (04:41):
Maybe Iranian?

Speaker 2 (04:43):
She got Casey also was, but he played an Indian
for a hundred years before that.

Speaker 1 (04:49):
Well it wasn't. Wasn't strong Bow also like Italian or something?

Speaker 3 (04:53):
Yeah? Yeah, but I thought it'd be funny.

Speaker 2 (04:56):
They had all these Indians there and then Gamma Sing
comes running in with a sword and starts cutting people
to ask Twicon and Dyson and then they go and
they go, and then all of a sudden he stopped
and wrong Indians.

Speaker 1 (05:10):
I would have been I would have been jokes.

Speaker 3 (05:12):
I would have been jokes when when you couldn't do it,
But it'd be hilarious.

Speaker 1 (05:15):
No, for sure, for sure? Uh what were your what
made you want to sup perfessional wrestling with? What we
made that decision? Where like we heard about your early life,
about you know, your your college years and the friends
and being the center of attention and then being a marine,
But like what made you go, Okay, I'm actually gonna
do this professional wrestling.

Speaker 2 (05:33):
Did my full six years and like, okay, yeah, and
I don't really discharged, you know, so I just but
I only went into reserves. I didn't do active duty.
I went to the same boot campus everybody in the
same infanty, you know. I went to infantry school after that,
and then I went into the reserves because I didn't
want to go full time.

Speaker 3 (05:51):
I just wanted to see how tough I was, you know. Yeah, but.

Speaker 1 (05:57):
There was a question when do you decide that you
wanted camp for sup professional wrestling.

Speaker 2 (06:01):
I always wanted to do it when I was a
little kid, you know, and I was nine or ten.
But you know, it's not something that people go into,
you know what I mean. It's you know, it's it's
not something especially I was a skinny Jewish kid, you
know what I mean. So one hundred and twenty pounds,
you know, after two years of working out, I was
one hundred and fifty three pounds with eleven inch arms

(06:22):
and seventeen inch sties, you know, and which is ridiculously skinny.
But I also had like love handles, so you know,
so I had no build whatsoever. And uh so I'd
never thought about it seriously. But by the time I started,
you know, I started lifting weights and started by the
time I started growing and taking steroids and finally started growing,
I was two twenty when I graduated college, and I

(06:44):
was like, I don't want to be fifty years old, going, man,
I should have done this, So I'm gonna go try
and if I failed, and I'll still being a success
because I tried. Yeah, except except unfortunately I held myself
to Eventually I started holding myself to a higher standard,
so that when it is, like like I said, if

(07:04):
I thought that if I didn't make it, I'd still
be a success, That's how I originally thought. But as
I gained in town and the business, then I started
I stopped feeling that way and started thinking of myself
in a higher you know, for holding myself to a
higher standard. And so by the time I was done

(07:25):
before the before I went to TNA, I was already
feeling like like my career was a failure because I
wasn't at the top of the wwe you know what
I mean, Which is ridiculous, especially coming from the thought
process I started.

Speaker 1 (07:38):
With, Yeah, which is insane because if you really look
back to the beginning you were still finding yourself, but
you wanted to be in it. Tell me about the
Scottie the Body character. Why was that initially your initial
character and what were you looking to do?

Speaker 3 (07:53):
Well? I wanted to be a chicken shit heel.

Speaker 2 (07:55):
I love chicken shit heels and they're fun, They're funny there,
they get great heat. And everybody's a tough guy, you
know what I mean, And I'm not, you know, I'm
I was two hundred twenty pounds.

Speaker 3 (08:07):
When everybody was to eighty, you know. Yeah, I wasn't
a big guy, you know.

Speaker 2 (08:11):
Now I'm two forty to fifty, you know, and I'm
bigger than you know, like now the average guy's two hundred,
you know, or if that, you know, I guess so
at least that's what I see.

Speaker 3 (08:21):
On the indie shows. I don't go.

Speaker 2 (08:22):
I don't watch TV. I don't watch wrestling on TV anymore.
But yeah, that's a whole other subject. But but uh yeah,
So where did I get lost that? I made so
many left turns? I gotta lost somebody the body as you.

Speaker 1 (08:39):
Were, Oh yeah, Scotty the Body wanted to be a
chicken shit heel. So right, so you were acting like
you were bigger than you were, right, and that's why.

Speaker 2 (08:47):
And and so I mean I was a big fan
of Jesse the Body Ventur's commentary. Yeah, and so it
was like I want to say, that's why I like
the name and the Ryans, you know what I mean,
Scotty the body. And and also I figured I was built,
but I wasn't that built, you know what I mean.
Like I was, I had a good build, but not
a great build. So people could say, ah, your build's crap,
you know what I mean, So they would have it'd

(09:08):
be heat, you know what I mean. But instead people
now just remember saying, oh, you are so built back then,
I'm like, no, I No, I wasn't.

Speaker 3 (09:15):
I wasn't.

Speaker 1 (09:16):
I just well when I watched the cliffs and you're
talking about like you know, I wasn't the biggest and
like et cetera. Don't like but he's still pretty like
in shape, like compared to wrestling I think today to
what what could what we used to seeing maybe on
the Independence whatnot, I'm like, oh, like he's still like
in better shape than a lot of restless So I
get it, but I don't get it. But I guess

(09:37):
back in those days it was bigger and stronger and etcetera.

Speaker 2 (09:39):
Right, so yeah, everybody was everybody was too eighty in
the WWF, you know. So so you know, even the
five ten guys, the guy for this guy's five foot
nine to eighty, you know what I mean. So, and
that's what Vince liked. And but that's not why I
went on steroids. I went on steroids because I wanted
to be a look like a bodybuilder. I wanted to
look great, you know. I just my Jewish genetics are

(10:02):
great for bringing for brain power, but they're not.

Speaker 3 (10:04):
Great for builds.

Speaker 1 (10:06):
No, no, for sure physiques. And then eventually you kind
of linked up with Diamondell's page became Scotty Flamingo. Do
you have any memories or favorite moments from being Scotty
Flamingo or were you kind of like, I don't know
if this is really me.

Speaker 2 (10:17):
Yeah, I didn't know if it was really me, but
that was what Dusty wanted. And uh and you know,
like what am I gonna say?

Speaker 3 (10:25):
No? You know? But uh yeah, Dusty had.

Speaker 2 (10:31):
Big plans for me, and then Watts came in and
kabashed them, so that so I have real unfond memories
of that but uh, but I but my fondest memory,
I think was the first pay per view I did
was for was Beach Blast, I think against Pillman, and
we were on first and we went like seventeen minutes

(10:52):
and we had a phenomenal match. You know, Brian's unbelievable
worker and and uh and so we had a great match,
and I got back to the locker room and all
the and there was like a line of.

Speaker 3 (11:05):
The boys, Like I couldn't believe it.

Speaker 2 (11:07):
There's literally like five or five or six seven people
long a line to come waiting to congratulate me because
they didn't really know me, you know at that point,
I just got in the company recently, and uh, and
they were they had lined up to thank me, to
put me over, you know, to put over the match,
you know what I mean. And I was like, wow,
this is great, you know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (11:27):
Yeah, let me ask you this because you bought them up.
And I was gonna obviously talk about Raven in a
little bit here like the Raymond character, but to also
see Pillman's progression in like ninety six ninety seven, well
he also by the time he got to ECW was
getting a little bit more grungy and whatnot. Do you

(11:47):
kind of feel low key might have been a little inspired.

Speaker 2 (11:49):
By Ramon No, no, okay, no, Billan didn't even Pilman
was he was a genius. Yeah, he's a really bright guy.
He just he knew to change at the times, you
know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (12:03):
And I was working and it was great.

Speaker 3 (12:05):
Yeah, I know, it's amazing.

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from Scotty Film, you ended up in the WF for
your first run, and you were a Johnny Polo. Why
do you think guys like Dusty and Vince saw you
more as this speaking character rather than anything else.

Speaker 3 (14:10):
Initially, Well, Dusty saw me as a as a wrestling character.
You know, Dusty had me wrestling.

Speaker 2 (14:15):
But then when I went to WWF, it's because of
the size, the size thing, you know. I was, like
I said, I was two hundred and twenty pounds in Orlando,
two hundred and eighty pounds giants, you know, and uh
and so he didn't see me that way, you know, Yeah,
because because when I started there one two three. Kid

(14:38):
hadn't even started yet, and he was he was designed
to be. He's still six to one. I mean, he's
not a little guy, you know what I mean. And
uh he he he came in like right after I
came in, I think if I remember correctly, and uh,
but he.

Speaker 3 (14:56):
Was the smallest guy in the company other than me.

Speaker 4 (14:58):
You know.

Speaker 2 (14:59):
Yeah, that does a lot, and they only needed one
small guy, you know what I mean, especially with what
he could do. You know, I was in a high flyer,
you know, I was. I was a ground game, you know,
I was a selling machine.

Speaker 3 (15:11):
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (15:13):
And but they always believe you could talk, like I
feel like because they had you do in commentary, they
had you managing. Was it talking something you were very
proud of early on in your career that you knew
that you could talk and you could cut a bromo
when you could like you know, yeah something across.

Speaker 3 (15:26):
Yeah, absolutely, yeah. Yeah. Talking was my strong suit. Unfortunately
it was also.

Speaker 2 (15:32):
My uh my bane because I would always run my
mouth and get myself in trouble. I would never think
about what I'm saying. I would just say it and
then think about it afterwards.

Speaker 1 (15:42):
Yeah yeah.

Speaker 3 (15:43):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (15:44):
And then also like it was we found out, Like,
at least I found out this. I didn't know that
you were actually like an associate producer for a Monday
night raw in the early days in your twenties. That's
still like a pretty I don't know. Maybe it's more
of an important role looking at it now than it
was maybe in nineteen ninety three years, Like I want
to wrestle. This is not what I want to do.

Speaker 2 (16:03):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (16:03):
How was that.

Speaker 1 (16:04):
Experience and was there anything that you were a part
of that you were proud of or that you came
up with.

Speaker 2 (16:10):
Yeah, I was being groomed to be on the booking
committee back when it was Paton Bruce. You know, before
there was booking committees and booking teams and more than
one booker. You know, pat and Bruce had been the
booker's revence for one hundred years, and they Vince was
grooming me to be on the booking committee. And uh,

(16:31):
and you made me associately producer when you heard me
on commentary when I did commentary with him and he
and he saw that I came prepared. I had notes
and stuff and he and so he put me in
charge of the third run shows all America and Mania,
which are wrap around shows, which magazine style format, you know,

(16:52):
like like a like a hard copy type of thing,
you know what I mean, where they would rerun matches
and they you know, and they would have and nothing
would be first run.

Speaker 3 (17:02):
Raw was first run, or.

Speaker 2 (17:05):
Stars, Yeah, Superstars was the first was Maine it was
the first run, and then Raw was I think Raw
started back while I was Yeah, and then Raw became
the number one show and everything played off of that.
But I wasn't writing the main shows. I was being
groomed to write on Raw and stuff. But by the
time but by the time they took me, eventually they

(17:27):
took me off TV as a character because Vince's like,
I don't I don't really see you as Johnny Polo.
There's a disconnect. I'm like, I never saw me as
Johnny Polo. You know, Shane McMahon, it should be Johnny Polo.
You know, he's a he's perfect for the gimmick, you know.
And uh. And so he took me off TV and
just had me produce and and grooming me for the

(17:48):
booking committee. And I was like, this isn't what I
want to do. I want to be on TV. And
I want to wrestle. You know, at least when I
was on TV, I felt like I could get still wrestle,
I could get.

Speaker 3 (17:58):
Back into it, you know, we we my way back
into it.

Speaker 2 (18:01):
But being off TV as a producer, I'm like, there's
no way I'm gonna be back and wrestling because Vince,
you know, like to keep the office separate from the
the in ring talent, you know.

Speaker 3 (18:11):
Yeah, so I quit.

Speaker 1 (18:14):
Yeah, and and and it's interesting because it's like, I
don't know, because I I don't know, I was a kid.
I'm like, I enjoyed the character even as a manager
on TV. So it's interesting that, like it was, it
was more than a movie to the office. What was
your relationship with Shane mcmacause obviously all these stories where
you haven't heat for being friends with Shane or your
relationship Shane kind of hindered you.

Speaker 2 (18:32):
Yeah, me and Shane became really good friends, and uh,
and we started hanging out. And and I was actually
a member of the original Mean Street Posse, which was
which were the same people, but it was it was
the behind the scenes, you know. Yeah, like they were
they were to Mean Street Posse before they were to
Mean Street posse, you know, and I was an honor
I was a I don't remember, but uh but uh yeah,

(18:58):
so but yeah, so I hung out with Shane, and
so I got every night, you know, until five in
the morning, and he'd he'd come home. He stayed my
house because it was so lady and want to you know,
And so he'd called his dad and I used to
call his dad Vic on TV instead of Vince. Yeah,
you know, because because it's funny. You know, it's just
an old time classic gag. But you call a guy
by the wrong name, it's funny. But Shane would start

(19:20):
calling his dad Vic, and he'd go, Hey, Vic, I'm
I'm a Johnny Polo's house. I'll be home in the morning.
I'll be I'll be at work in the morning. I'll
see that and just want to let you know I'm safe. Bye,
and he'd hang up and h And so it buried
me hugely, like every everybody thought I was Everybody thought
I was kissing Shane's ass, but I wasn't. I was
getting I unfortunately, was burying myself, you know, yeah, yeah really,

(19:42):
And then when I came back, it really still held
a Vince still held a grudge.

Speaker 1 (19:47):
You know, and then how how how I guess he
was not much different in age you and Shane, so
you must have make a closer in nature. It just
made sense that you'd be hanging out with him more
so than hanging out with Vince and Pat and Bruce, Like, yeah, I.

Speaker 2 (20:00):
Mean, but uh no, it just we just we had
the same sensibilities, you know what I mean. And that
was when he thought he was gonna be earn getting
the company, you know what I mean?

Speaker 3 (20:11):
Yeah, you know, and he.

Speaker 2 (20:12):
Thought, you know, he was he was a good kid.
But then when I came back, he just had no
time for me.

Speaker 4 (20:21):
It was said, what's everybody? This are here from Rade
City Toys. Hope you guys enjoyed the show. Make sure
you guys subscribe to our YouTube channel, The Restling Classic.
Check out the tw C shows that Justin and I
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Speaker 1 (20:35):
Everything else that we feel like talking about.

Speaker 3 (20:37):
You guys are looking for figures.

Speaker 1 (20:39):
Hit me up. Got some old school legends.

Speaker 5 (20:40):
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Anything you're looking for Just hit me up, follow me
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comment and share, and you guys go back to the

(21:00):
show and I hope you get enjoyed.

Speaker 1 (21:02):
Let's talk about becoming Ravens. So you took a bet
on yourself. You quit the WWF and you left, and
then you went to ECW and you started creating this
Raven character. One thing I got from the documentary lot
is a lot of people talked about your mind for wrestling,
your mind for creative ideas and coming up with things,
And honestly give you a lot of credit for pushing

(21:22):
wrestling toward eventually went in the late nineties. Tell me
about coming up with the Raven character and what you
were thinking.

Speaker 2 (21:30):
I had a conversation with DDP and we're talking about,
you know what I should do, and he said, you
need to change stop being a chicken shit heel. I'm like,
but I like being a chicken shit heel. It's fun,
it gets over, it gets heat. He goes, yeah, but
the bookers, the people who are booking the main companies.
I guess Dusty, and uh, we're not Dusty. I don't

(21:51):
know who was booking Kip Fry. I don't know somebody
who's booking WW and Vince. They weren't buying chicken shit heels,
you know. And my ultimate goal was end up back
in WWE.

Speaker 3 (22:01):
You know.

Speaker 2 (22:02):
So he's like, you gotta change, you gotta be a
tough guy. I'm like, like, but everybody's a tough guy.
It's it's there's no nuance, there's no subtlety, and uh,
he goes, well, you gotta think of something, because you know,
he goes, he goes, I see you as this guy,
like because the way you dressed, you already dressed like
I already dressed like Raven originally, Like that's how I

(22:22):
originally dressed anyway, So leather jacket, Doc Martin's ripped up
jeans and uh, he goes, you look like those Chili
Pepper guys and the movie point break and I was like,
and so I so that was the starting point. And
that's what That's how I get him credit for that.
But he always likes to take credit for coming up
with the Raven character. But that was as much as

(22:43):
he came up with. I came up with the whole
character after that. But he he was he he he,
he was great help.

Speaker 3 (22:51):
He got me my job at E c W. And uh.

Speaker 2 (22:55):
But anyway, so coming up with the characters, so I
was like, I wanted to be dark like the Crow,
and I thought, what's the crow's name? Eric Draven? Draven
Raven quote the Raven nevermore. Okay, I got a catchphrase
in the name Boom.

Speaker 3 (23:08):
That's settled.

Speaker 2 (23:09):
Then I put the and that was on like a
like a minute, like less than a minute. Just the inspiration,
divine inspiration.

Speaker 3 (23:16):
And then then I came up with the outfit.

Speaker 2 (23:20):
And uh maybe the outfit first, I forget it took
it like five minutes.

Speaker 3 (23:23):
You know, I knew I needed some flannel in there.

Speaker 2 (23:26):
Say, I wore flannel shirts all the time, but I
didn't want to wear like a long sleeve flannel shirt
the wrestling. So I got the sleeves off his shirt
and I tried to see what that looked like by
the like big Josh, yeah, I remember that born's big
Josh gin.

Speaker 1 (23:38):
Do you remember a big Josh yeah?

Speaker 2 (23:42):
Something like That's not that's not it. So I'm like,
whant to wear one of my concert tees? And then uh,
and then I can change the T shirt every every
every show that I'm on. So there's variety in my outfits.
There's always variety because I knew I was gonna wear
the same leather jacket because Raven wouldn't care enough to
change his you know.

Speaker 3 (24:01):
But you still have to You still have to be
a star. You gotta look like a star.

Speaker 2 (24:05):
So I had to become I had to find a
way to make to become look like an anti star,
if that makes sense, you know what I mean, looking
to look like a star without looking like a star.

Speaker 1 (24:17):
Yeah, the star that doesn't care if he's a start
to saying like, you know, right right, trying to keep
it low key while everyone else is trying to be
the star and look the way You're like, I don't care, right, Yeah,
And then I think that was the best. That's what
the Raymond character gave. Obviously they're in ECW. Someone that
was behind it all for the most part was Paul Haman,
and I was curious about your relationship with him during

(24:40):
those years. What was it like working with Paul Hayman
did you immediately be like, because when you presented this character,
like did you love it?

Speaker 3 (24:47):
Like? What was it?

Speaker 1 (24:47):
What was that relationship?

Speaker 3 (24:49):
Love Paulie?

Speaker 2 (24:49):
Paulie is Uh, Paulie is the greatest wrestling mind in
the history of business. I think, Yeah, I love Paulie.
You know, he meant so much to my career, you know.
And uh, he got had heat. He had heat with
me when I left because he didn't want me to leave.
But uh, but when I came back, and then when

(25:10):
I came back.

Speaker 3 (25:10):
There's still is uh.

Speaker 2 (25:12):
I mean, uh, let's see when I left the second
time there, that's when there was even more heat.

Speaker 3 (25:17):
I guess, I forget exactly.

Speaker 2 (25:20):
But when I went to New York, he wasn't he
wasn't helpful to me at that point, you know what
I mean. He wasn't looking out for me like he
would like he used to, you know what I mean. Yeah,
and he felt betrayed, I guess. And but you know
I had higher aspirations than just ecw you.

Speaker 3 (25:38):
Know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (25:39):
And uh, the but then eventually, you know, over time
time heals all wounds and and I guess he's heard
what I I know that he's heard what I've said
about him, because I'm everybody talks bad about PAULI in
some capacity, you know what I mean, But I don't
want anything bad to say about it. I think he's
a great guy, you know what I mean. He's uh,

(26:00):
he's a unique individual.

Speaker 3 (26:01):
You know.

Speaker 2 (26:01):
There's only one hymn, you know, yeah, and uh. And
the best work I ever did was with him, you know,
And so because that was the that's what I would
say in interviews, you know, when people ask about it,
I say, you, the best work I ever done was
with Paulie. You know, he was it was the Scorsese
to Mike de Niro, you know, yeah.

Speaker 1 (26:20):
And then and you could see that there was like
a bond between the two and that he was a
fan of the character. Like I specifically remember that one
poem where you guys are sitting like in a parking
lot or a parking garage and you're you're talking to
each other cuting this poem. I'm like, Oh, like, Paul
Hammon loves the Raven character. You can just tell, like
he's booker.

Speaker 2 (26:37):
Bookers see themselves to characters, like yeah, they see themselves
to a certain wrestler's eyes, like Vince saw himself through
Lex Luger, the Patriot, Yeah, and uh and the bodybuilder,
you know, so that's who he saw the world through
those eyes, and Paulie Song through Mayan and Dreamer's eyes,
you know.

Speaker 3 (26:56):
So that was fortuitous, very fortuitous.

Speaker 1 (27:00):
Yeah, And regardless what people say about him, like he
moved a certain way, which clearly shows a longevity in
the business. He's very good at playing the game in
professional wrestling, So.

Speaker 3 (27:10):
He's great at playing a game.

Speaker 2 (27:11):
And if he wasn't and but if he didn't have
the talent to back it up, it wouldn't have made
a difference.

Speaker 1 (27:17):
I let's talk about Dreamer because obviously that's one of
your greatest rivalries. Uh, the one that when people think
about ECW, it either goes to Dreamer or goes to Sandman.
Those are the two that I think most people think
about right off the bat. What was it like working
on Dreaming? What was it like coming up? Because, like,
tell this day, it's twenty twenty five, a lot of
this was happening in nineteen ninety five, ninety six, and
people will still be like, yeah, but have you ever
seen that Raven Dreamer feud where like they were friends

(27:39):
since high school and there was a girl and she
used to be fat. And it's like it's still talked
about as an example of like a good story that
wrestling should have. Do you look back at that falling
and how was that coming up with that idea? Like
do you guys know you were doing something that was
kind of different for professional wrestling at the time.

Speaker 2 (27:57):
The I knew Tommy well, First of all, Tommy he
was so game for anything, you know what I mean,
Like if you told me he need to run his
head to a brick wall, he would do it, you know,
he would, you know, and uh and bless his heart,
but he trusted me because I've been around a bit

(28:18):
that so if I had an idea and I wanted
to do it, he would always even if he thought
it was the stupidest idea ever, he would go along
with it because he knew a that if that it
could work, because it's you know, because I'm good at that,
and b if it didn't work, he knew I would
take the heat for it, you know what I mean.
And see, because he trusted me enough, and so we

(28:39):
had a great bond right from the get go, you know,
and we're still you know, close to enemy friends to
this day for where he likes to cause.

Speaker 3 (28:50):
In front of mees. Yeah, I guess that's the word.

Speaker 2 (28:53):
But uh, but we're still you know, like he just
when I was just when I went to Baltimore to
screen my documentary, he he came in, uh the night
before because I was doing a meet and greeted.

Speaker 3 (29:05):
Jimmy Seafood JJ Seafood, Jimmy Jimmy Seafood and and he
he showed up to surprise me.

Speaker 2 (29:12):
You know. So that's just like that's kind of guy
he is, you know what I mean, he's a great guy.
And uh, you know, I got nothing bad to say
about him.

Speaker 1 (29:22):
But did you guys realize that with that story because
at the time, like wrestling was very especially ninety five
pretty whatever.

Speaker 3 (29:28):
That kind of stuff.

Speaker 2 (29:29):
That's the kind of stuff I grew up on in
Florida because I grew up in Florida watching Florida Championship Wrestling. Yeah,
you know, like they had Kevin Sullivan bringing a purple
haze across from from Europe, so he's he swam in
from Europe apparently, and uh and yeah, and uh, but.

Speaker 1 (29:48):
I was missing at that time. So when you guys
started doing it. Well, those people in the nineties are like, oh,
we might have not seen this before. This is a
little bit yeah life like the fake Did they really
know each other as kids?

Speaker 2 (29:59):
Like yeah, So that was that was my idea to
have us go cause I originally I was supposed to
come in for two three months and then go to
Smoky Mountain and then hopefully get to New York and uh.
And then that was because and Paulie didn't know what
I was doing with the character, Like he had no
idea what it was gonna be. Like he thought it

(30:20):
was gonna be like a comedy version of what it is,
you know, Like he didn't. He just assumed because of
what I'd done in the past, you know what I mean,
which which is part of the reason why I had
to leave to WW to create the character and then
go somewhere else so I could come back with it,
you know what I mean, if somebody knew and uh yeah,
and so so I was gonna come in for like

(30:42):
three months and and feud with Dreamer and get him
over and now it was gonna be it and uh,
but we both realized we had something special.

Speaker 3 (30:50):
You know. The first promo I did and uh yeah, and.

Speaker 2 (30:58):
So it just it worked out out. Man, it was Uh.
I think people to me like, that's the kind of
stuff they did in Memphis. That's the case if they
wasn't as long term planned out in Memphis, you know,
because they were always working for the Monday hout, you know,
the Monday is Memphis show, Monday Memphis show. But uh,
that's the kind of storylines that I love in Florida,

(31:18):
and uh, and that's the kind of way the business
started to go because to me, it's a soap art
wrestling has always been a soap opera, you know, It's
just it's in the ring instead of a hospital and
emotional pain.

Speaker 3 (31:32):
Okay, like if you beat somebody up, it hurts for
a little while, but you get over it.

Speaker 2 (31:37):
If you steal somebody's girlfriend, that'll kill that'll crush the guy,
you know what I mean.

Speaker 3 (31:40):
So psychological warfare is always the best.

Speaker 2 (31:44):
And so I knew that i'd get psychological heat as
opposed to just physical heat, you know, to really get
this thing going. So I to get it to get
it hot from the start instead, because we only had
three months, that's what we thought. I knew I wanted
a backstory with it. So I came up with the
backstory of that we went to summer camp together, and

(32:06):
then we added the thing with Beulah. When I met
her down in Miami, she was with ron Gann, a
friend of mine from the Atlanta Braves, and uh and
he's like hey, uh and she he goes, hey, hey, Raven,
this is Terry Terrrius is Raven. He's a wrestler. She
used to be in wrestling. I go, really, and she goes, yeah,
I used to be Pilman's sister in Calgary. Like no kidding,

(32:28):
and uh, but you nobody really knew, because I don't.

Speaker 1 (32:32):
Know why I didn't know right now, so that's crazy.

Speaker 2 (32:35):
Yeah, and uh, there's only a couple appearances I think anyway. Anyway,
so she so we added her into the story and uh,
and it was just it was magic.

Speaker 3 (32:47):
You know.

Speaker 1 (32:49):
Yeah, it's crazy because it's like that's the best wrestling
even tell this day. Is like when like you don't
even need a title if the story is good enough,
like you don't even need no, not at all. If
there's a personal library and you made it a little
bit more of a psychological situation or there's some sort
of backstory and that always is the best wrestling, Like
even when there isn't online, if the story is good,
you're more invested in the wrestling and the matches and

(33:10):
what you can do. So I think and at that time,
like I was saying, like it was more cartoony, it
was more just buy the book in the mid nineties
and like go to ECW and there's like the story.
And then you saw w WF and other places be like, hey,
we need to do some of that because that's what
people are liking. So we're gonna we're gonna do this
Undertaker and Kane thing, they're brothers, We're gonna do this
over here. This is that, and you saw the change happen.

(33:33):
I feel like it started with ECW. What's the lore
behind Raven always surrounding himself with people, whether it was
the Raven's Nest, the flock, the gatherings, like you always
surrounded yourself with people, what's the what's the story behind that?

Speaker 3 (33:49):
Raven would have minions.

Speaker 2 (33:51):
You know, he was cultish, he is a cult leader type,
and so he always had a flock with him, you know,
and he wanted people to fight a dials battles for
him because he was a lazy and B he didn't
want to get his hands dirty, you know what I mean, Like, yeah.

Speaker 3 (34:06):
He was he would if he had to, but well
he would if he had to, but he would drive.
You would prefer not to. And yeah, so it's just.

Speaker 2 (34:21):
And it works for the character because it takes longer
to get to him, you know what I mean, Like
if you the opponent has to get through the flock
members first, get through them, and then they finally get
the raven, and then then something happens and whatever, and
it goes off to another thing, and then then the
sidekicks always end up turning on the raven, so there's

(34:42):
even more feuds to work with. It's it's just it's
a simple formula, but it's a and it also appealed
to me because I'm lazy, you know, like if it
was a house show, I was much lazier than I
mean on TV. I wasn't ever lazy on TV, but
house shows I was lazy because you know it was
like I really I really blame I blame myself for this,

(35:07):
but uh, but the uh, it was like.

Speaker 3 (35:15):
The old timers would always go, kid, you're working too much.
You're doing too much. You know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (35:19):
And so eventually I stopped doing so much, and then
I started becoming one of those guys going, oh, kid,
you're doing too much, you know what I mean? Yeah,
And that's not and there is a there is a
common sense thing if you do too much, you don't
need to do so much, but you also don't need
to do as less as I was doing, you know
what I mean?

Speaker 3 (35:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (35:38):
And I also feel like there might be like a
period of a career where you should be doing too
much and then a point where you get to where
you like, now you can slow it down, you know,
I don't have to And I think that might have
been a part of that too. Uh w CW. Uh
that's more like I initially remember first for seeing you.
You came in there and people knew who you were

(35:58):
immediately when they first saw you sitting in the crowd.
Came into a ton of fanfare. What are some of
your favorite memories from WCW.

Speaker 2 (36:06):
I loved sitting in the audience Like that was, that
was Terry Taylor's idea and that was amazing. Like that
was I thought, Wow, they're paying me six figures to
watch the best show on TV.

Speaker 3 (36:16):
You know.

Speaker 2 (36:16):
I was like, you know, and uh so that was
that was huge to me, you know what I mean,
Like it was such a great deal, you know what
I mean. I love the promos I did when they've
shown filmed the vignette's e CW style, Yeah, I love
those promos they did.

Speaker 3 (36:35):
They shot like four of them.

Speaker 1 (36:36):
Yeah I remember.

Speaker 2 (36:38):
Yeah, I wasn't so fond of the ones where I
where I had my mom involved and involved in my
fake mom.

Speaker 3 (36:45):
I was.

Speaker 1 (36:45):
I was gonna ask you about that after was also
like how did you because obviously in an EACW though,
like you had a lot more creative input on the
Raven character and more influence on kind of the direction
it went to. And then WCW obviously it's a different beast,
more cooks in the kitchen. And then they did the
whole backstory of Raven where he ended up being like
a spoiled rich kid and really he was just in
a title spoiled rich kid that was miserable. And how

(37:09):
do you feel about that?

Speaker 3 (37:10):
Like it wasn't. I wasn't. I wasn't fond of it,
but but it worked in its own way, you know
what I mean.

Speaker 2 (37:17):
And Raven and Raven was a spoiled rich kid anyway,
you know what I mean, Like not spoiled, but he
would he would blame everybody else for his problems.

Speaker 3 (37:28):
I tried to.

Speaker 2 (37:28):
I tried to make him as three dimensional as any as,
you know, more than any other character in the business.

Speaker 3 (37:34):
Like I wanted people to be able to see it,
like if they were if they if they if Raven
was in.

Speaker 2 (37:40):
A situation, they would know how he would behave, you
know what I mean, Like I want him to be that,
you know, because most characters you don't know what they're
gonna do, or you just know they're gonna they're gonna.

Speaker 3 (37:50):
U win me win you lose, you know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (37:53):
As a promo, you know, And that's what all promos
are based on, is me when you lose, you know.
And uh, I tried to make mine more in depths,
more psychologically driven. And it's also how clever can you say,
I'm gonna get I'm I'm gonna beat you up, you know,
because that's the that's the gist of every almost every
promo out there. You know, I'm gonna when we get together,

(38:15):
I'm gonna beat you up, you know.

Speaker 1 (38:17):
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(39:03):
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(39:47):
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Speaker 3 (39:50):
Check them out.

Speaker 1 (39:51):
Keep doing the thing with the Leader.

Speaker 3 (39:53):
Yeah, it was.

Speaker 1 (39:54):
It was an interesting turn though, because I think we
got to see this different side of Raven. There was
one moment in WCW specific that I remember. It was
after I think Savage beat Stevie Richards and you got
in the ring and you had to stare down with
the Matro Man, and the fans were there for it.
They they saw something there, but nothing came out of it.

(40:14):
Was it any ever? Talks of you worked with the
matra Man, did he want to work with you or
what was up with that?

Speaker 3 (40:20):
Uh No, I don't. I don't know. They just had to.

Speaker 2 (40:24):
I think they just wanted to get some tease, a
little heat, you know what I mean. But uh yeah,
I don't. It wasn't planned to go anywhere.

Speaker 3 (40:34):
Yeah, it looks I know, not that I know of.
You know, the.

Speaker 1 (40:37):
Fans I watched it back in the Wow, they really
popped for this. This the Savage Raven stare down. It's
a little different, it's something unique. And then it never
when you went out and as a Raven fan, I'm like, oh,
and a Savage fan like that would have been cool.
It would have been cool to see something between these two,
like totally opposite characters. You have one guy that's gonna
be going crazy and the other guy suddenly just talking
like what is wrong with this guy?

Speaker 3 (40:58):
You know?

Speaker 1 (40:58):
Yeah, yeah, that would have been cool. You went back
to the WF in two thousand and one. You're part
of the Invasion storyline. You won the hardcore title a
bunch of times you had you were a part of
what many people consider the best wrestled Menia Vessellmenia seventeen
against Kan and the Big Show on that trip with
the rat. Why do you feel like that run didn't
work out in the long run.

Speaker 3 (41:21):
It's a lot of reasons. I think they.

Speaker 2 (41:25):
I wasn't. I mean, you know, Vince just didn't get me.
I guess Pat didn't get my character at all. You know, Pat, like, Pat,
you're seventy years old, How are you? What are you
supposed to get? You know you're not supposed to get it,
you know, Pat was again, Pat didn't like the character.

Speaker 3 (41:48):
I sold Vince in this long story short.

Speaker 2 (41:51):
I sold Vince in this idea to uh the rest
of seven Deadly Sinnis storyline that I started. I sold
him on that, and when he heard it, he wanted
He wanted me to join the booking committee again. Like
right then, He's like, he's like, you want to be
in the book committee. I'm like, no, I want to wrestle,
you know, That's why I left the last time. And
he's like, all right, we're gonna do this. And so

(42:11):
the next week we're supposed to start it, and we didn't.
And it's my fault. I should have pressured the writers
to start it, but they kept pushing it off, pushing
it off, until I finally afterbout a month, I went
to Vince said, hey, when are we going to start this?

Speaker 3 (42:25):
Oh? I know? And then the first week it was like.

Speaker 2 (42:28):
On a Friday or something probably that I brought up
to Vincent, like on a Monday, he goes, we're gonna
do this on heat instead of raw.

Speaker 3 (42:34):
Like, how come?

Speaker 2 (42:35):
He goes, He goes, Pat doesn't think you can carry
the load. I'm like Jesus, you know. So everybody has
great fond memories of Pat that I don't you know,
but but everybody's different, you know, but Pat, you know,
Pat was a great mind, no doubt. But I go, Pat,
one day I said to him, I said, Pat, I go,
you were when you were a young high flyer and

(42:58):
at San Francisco. Did anybody what what the the old
timers say about you? They go, they didn't get me.
They didn't get my character. You know, they didn't get
what I was doing. They told me to slow down, stop,
And I knew what I was doing. I go, what's
the same thing here?

Speaker 3 (43:12):
I go.

Speaker 2 (43:13):
You know, you're eighty years old. You're not supposed to
get my character. And he goes, and he goes, you
thought about it, He goes, I still don't get it.
So he just didn't like me. It is what I
think it is.

Speaker 3 (43:23):
You know, I think so yeah, yeah, so you know, so.

Speaker 2 (43:27):
It didn't work out, you know, so we know, we
finally got around to start in the yangle and then
a couple of weeks into a vinces Caboston and I
gotta let go and it was and that's the way
things go, you know. But luckily I had TNA to
fall back on, so that was good. And uh so
I didn't have to end my run on National TV
the shitty way, you know.

Speaker 1 (43:47):
No, no, for sure, And like you always had a
great look, you know, even in two thousand and I'm like,
this guy's like the potential was there, Like get a
great look, you look different, and it was awesome. And
it was like I was a kid. I was like,
this guy looks like I don't know. We just said
there's something about it. There was a special or too,
and it sucks I never got to go that way.
But ten A was great, and initially TENA was a
one of the one of the hot new secondary alternative

(44:09):
products after WCW went out of business, and then you
got to go there and get got to play out
a lot of the stories and characters that you wanted
to do. You got to work with CM Punk early
in his career. How was that.

Speaker 3 (44:20):
I liked seeing Punk? You know, he's a he's a
great talent.

Speaker 2 (44:24):
He it's the same story I tell because I don't
know him that well, but it's he thought he was
the best in the business at the time and he wasn't,
but he ended up being the best in the business.

Speaker 3 (44:34):
So good for him, you know. So I have nothing
but respect. My only my only thing that I would
have told Punk was he should have went to Bettletour
instead of Uh. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (44:43):
I asked him about that and he said, the money
they offered him, he had to go to UFC. I go, Yeah,
you should have went to Bellatur. You would have had
a longer I wish he would have went to Bellatur
and had a longer MMA career.

Speaker 3 (44:54):
You know.

Speaker 1 (44:54):
Yeah, no, for sure, because he had the hard way.

Speaker 3 (44:57):
He had the hard work down for it, you know
what I mean?

Speaker 1 (45:00):
Definitely?

Speaker 3 (45:00):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (45:01):
Yeah, How what did it means you to win the
NWA World Heavyweight Championships? What to win the NWA World
Heavyweight Championship, Yeah that was.

Speaker 2 (45:09):
Cool, you know, but I you know, I want to
when there was no TV, and then I lost it
on the first TV back, so that was kind of
shitty or no, it was just yeah, I guess it
was something like that. Or I lost it before our
TV started again. Yeah, something like that. It was wasn't
the greatest run ever, but then I've had shitty title
runs before the US title for twenty four hours before

(45:31):
I ran in the Goldberg.

Speaker 3 (45:33):
Yeah, but you know, it's not all about the belt, you.

Speaker 1 (45:36):
Know, it's not. It's not it's just the moment of
being the being on a team and be able to
win it as sometimes what it's about, because honestly, the
some wrestlers that have like seventeen eighteen reigns and you
go look at the rains and like they also only
held it for like one day or lost it the
same day, and you're like, but it still counts, and
that's what people remember. They don't remember how long or
this or that sometimes, so it doesn't make this last

(45:58):
couple of questions, we'll wrap this up. First things First,
why did you think right now was the best time
to put out a documentary? Why were you so open
to sharing your story, and what do you want people
to look forward to leave after watching Leave without One.

Speaker 2 (46:10):
All right, that's like seven questions. Yeah, okay, so I
got So what happened was is Jordi the director? He
emailed me and and then we started talking. He said
he wanted to make a documentary about me, and uh,
he'd he'd heard me on Austin's post, Steve Austin's podcast
and thought I was a fascinating character his words, and uh,

(46:34):
and he thought that I'd be a really good documentary subject.

Speaker 3 (46:37):
And so he asked me and like to me, I
never would do.

Speaker 2 (46:40):
Like a reality show where you have to see my
personal life, because it's nobody's business.

Speaker 3 (46:45):
But this is telling my story, you know.

Speaker 2 (46:47):
And and I always wanted to tell my story, but
I was too lazy to write a book. And uh
and by the time, like I finally when I when
I was, I didn't have the time to write a
book when I was when I was in the w
W W CWR, and I wasn't quite time for me
to write a book yet. But by the time it
was time for me to write a book and tell
my story, it wouldn't have gotten national. It wouldn't have

(47:09):
been a you know, it would have just been like
everybody else's book, and I didn't want to just be
lumped in with everybody else, you know. So when he
offered me the documentary, I was like, yeah, this is
this is pretty cool, especially after I talked to him,
because I.

Speaker 3 (47:20):
Said, look, I wanted to have worts in all I go.

Speaker 2 (47:23):
I want this to be, you know, a bare bones
not bare bones, a naked picture of me, you know,
all my complexity, all my baggage, all my negative traits.

Speaker 3 (47:34):
You know, I wanted.

Speaker 2 (47:36):
I wanted at all, you know, because I don't want
to if I'm gonna tell my story. I wanted my
story to be accurate, and I know I didn't want
just a raw, raw piece, you know. So it's I
think he did a great job with it. In fact,
it's still like I have early on set Parkinson's and
I have a tremor, and my tremor gets really bad

(47:57):
when I talk about the movie because it brings up
because you know, it brings up like unfond memories, you
know what I mean, like a lot of negative, negative
memories and stuff which I want and I've dealt with
with with a psychologist, you know, I've dealt it. I've
been on the couch and laid there and spear spilled
my guts, you know what I mean. And I'm cool
with all the issues, but bringing them back up is

(48:18):
just like ripping off a band aid again and again.
So it's like, uh, so that's why my tremor if
you notice, I could be like, my tremors, yeah you know,
so yeah so, and then then once then talking to you,
it'll go away into my next interview and in half
an hour and I mean in ten minutes, ten minutes.

Speaker 1 (48:37):
Well, you talked about that a little bit too, Like
you how you started noticing and now that I know
that this documentary has filmed a little bit ago, it
might have been before you realized you were diagnosed with
Parkinson the bit, but you're like, sometimes I get a tremor,
then anxious tremors are anxious when I'm talking about certain
parts of your life. And you were very honest and
very transparent in this documentary about your life and what

(48:59):
you've learned through psychiatry, but also what you learned through
just self reflection and like realizing this might be why
I act this way.

Speaker 3 (49:07):
This happens, And I think.

Speaker 1 (49:10):
There's a lot for people to take away from this
I think there'll be part of it where people will
relate to it as well. And I thought it was
a really great documentary. Comes out November eighteenth on Amazon
Prime and.

Speaker 2 (49:20):
Also on Voodoo YouTube, iTunes, Apple, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (49:25):
Check it out everywhere. Last, but not least, I ask
everybody this question. I want to ask you. We ran
down a lot of your career. We know that you
want to do this as your kid, from the little
kid that was watching Chief J Strongbow to the person
that got to wrestle in all the major companies wwf ECWWCWTNA.
Do you feel like you major younger self proud, like
if you would have talked to ten.

Speaker 2 (49:45):
Yeah, yeah, oh yeah, yeah absolutely, yeah, yeah absolutely.

Speaker 1 (49:52):
Is there any advice you would give them if you
could talk to them right now?

Speaker 2 (49:56):
Don't be in such a rush to get everywhere and relax,
you know, relax, It's just life. You don't have to
be the center of attention. You don't need to be
the center of attention. You don't have to be the
smartest guy in the room. Just you know, you can't
learn to be content. That's that's the learn to be content,
because that was the hardest thing I was always I

(50:17):
was always looking for the next big thing, you know
what I mean. Like I'd go to a party and
their girls wouldn't be hot enough, soone let's go to
another party, you know what I mean. Like I was
always trying, you know, I would pick up a girl,
and then and then I'd see somebody hotters I'd try
and pick her up and then you know, so it's
like I was never satisfied. I was always That's why,
you know, drugs were That's why I became a drug addict.

(50:41):
You know, just nothing was enough, you know, until and
then once I stopped doing drugs, I had to realize,
you know, to the life life in itself is enough,
you know, and and be content with that. And I
learned to be content. And I'm I'm as content now
as I'm gonna be.

Speaker 3 (50:58):
You know.

Speaker 2 (50:58):
I think I think I'm doing a pretty good job
of it, you know, And I hope it, uh but
I hope it improves.

Speaker 3 (51:04):
But you know, I hope, but I.

Speaker 2 (51:05):
Hope I continue to grow as a person. But if
I don't, I don't. You know, I'm sixty one, you know, Yeah,
lived lived a long hard life.

Speaker 3 (51:14):
You know, A rough life is more not hard rough.

Speaker 1 (51:18):
Yeah, and it built you to the person you are today,
and you've come to a place where you're somewhat more content.

Speaker 2 (51:23):
Than you ever have been, and that's a great thing.
Thank you so much. I'm just contented. I think I'm
as content. I'm as contented as I've ever been, That's
definitely true. But I think I'm like ninety percent content.
So that's a pretty good number, I think.

Speaker 1 (51:38):
Yeah, I don't know. I don't know in life if
you can ever be one hundred percent content. I don't
think there's always something that.

Speaker 3 (51:44):
Will see I'm holding myself to a higher standard.

Speaker 1 (51:46):
Again, you are, you are, there you go because I'm like,
I don't think you can be and that and life
would be boring if if you were, if you were
like one hundred percent of tent all the time. I
think you need some like roadblocks and speed bumps and
things to hit you around the way to remind you
how strong you are, how far you come, and that
things that might have used to break you don't break
you anymore. So even though it might bug you a

(52:07):
little bit, you're like, wait a minute, I've got him
better at it, and I've lent from my mistakes and
anything I've done. So it's it's a cool thing.

Speaker 3 (52:13):
It's very wise of you.

Speaker 1 (52:15):
Thank you, thank you, very thank you very much for
doing this. I appreciate it, and it's honestly a privilege
for me. I've been a fan since I was a kid.
First time I saw a raven a WSW you're on
the Revenge video game. I loved that game when I
was a kid, I was like, this guy's cool, he's
giving anyone else. Everyone's colorful, larger than life, screaming in
the camera, and then there was Raven. So thank you
so much. As a privilege is a pleasure talking to you.

(52:36):
I hope everyone checks out the documentary. And I'm gonna
say this that I was talking about in the documentary.
I also one day want to see you get inducted
in the Hall of Fame. I'm gonna put it out
there for me as a fan. That'd be awesome to
see and so much great time.

Speaker 3 (52:50):
The documentary is called never More the Raven Effect.

Speaker 1 (52:53):
Yeah, never More the Raven Effect. Make sure I check it.
I'll be all in the description, I'll link it and everything.

Speaker 3 (52:57):
Yeah, it'd be funny. It'd be funny if you plug
the movie. Did you never give the naming a bit.

Speaker 1 (53:01):
Yeah, I gave it at the beginning and near the end.
I give it a couple of times. I will see
you all next time. Thank you so much time to
say good night.

Speaker 2 (53:11):
We sincerely appreciate your patronage and hope we've succeeded in
bringing you an enjoyable evening of entertainment.

Speaker 1 (53:17):
Please drive home carefully and come back again soon.

Speaker 3 (53:20):
Good Night,

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177. Raven - Casual Conversations

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