180. David Otunga - Casual Conversations - TWC Show

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Ye, how was it working with Sena And since it
is his retirement year, maybe give him as flowers about
something maybe you learn from him.

Speaker 2 (00:07):
Oh. I learned so much from John Cena. He was
my favorite opponent, my favorite person to work with. Probably,
if I'm being honest, probably was my favorite superstar just because, like,
you know, everything that he was doing, he's somebody that
you know, I tried to emulate in a way and
like with my career too. But he's he's a good

(00:30):
dude man and he's really funny. But he was hard
on us. But he was hard on me in particular,
seeing it was really hard on me, but he told
me like it's because he really liked me, and you know,
was trying to push me. He just I think his
way of getting the best out of people is tough love,
which maybe isn't always how people like you know, like

(00:50):
to learn. But like he met well you know what
I mean, and he really cares about this business. And
I really did learn a lot from him. Like he
helped me perfect my my lawyer character in the bow
tie and then even like my posing routine, he helped
me work on that on an overseas tour one time,
so like, and he gave me just a lot of
a lot of advice and so I honestly can't say

(01:11):
enough positive things about John Cena. I know, I give
him a lot of crap, Like, hey man, I'm still
gonna be honest. He was dirty for what he did
to the Nexus at SummerSlam. He was John, you know
you're dirty for that, being honest, but still my guy,
I still think you're the go.

Speaker 3 (01:26):
But hey, we got to call spade a spade.

Speaker 1 (01:43):
And we are back for another casual conversation with the Classic,
and I am here with a very special guest, someone new.
People might have seen him everywhere because he's obviously been
in pro wrestling, but he's done some stuff in acting.
He's on YouTube now with his YouTube channel. I've been
seeing you to a bunch of media and pressed in
the past couple of months. Every couple of days will
be like David o'tanga said this, David O'tuga's opinion on

(02:05):
this legal advice on that I love seeing it obviously,
like it's cool that you're also a lawyer before you
were wrestler, so you have the insight that other people
might not have, and a lot of things that are
happening in wrestling, which makes a YouTube channel really good.

Speaker 2 (02:18):
How are you doing, I'm great, I'm great. First of all,
thank you for having me on here. I'm really excited
to be here. This is gonna be fun. I've been
great lately. Thank you.

Speaker 1 (02:29):
It's a it's a pleasure and honor to have you
on here. And I love talking to people, especially people
that were in the business because I love asking this question,
especially for people that, like you're from a different era too,
So it's kind of like I'm intrigued to hear your answer.
What were your earliest memories of professional wrestling as a fan?
Like what got you hooked and made you like professional wrestling?

Speaker 2 (02:50):
Oh, I grew up in the eighties and it was
just seeing the you know, these superstars who were larger
than life, the physiques, hul Cogan, the Ultimate Warrior, I mean, Wrestlingia,
what Hogan said Andre, just the whole build up to that.
I mean, like, that's one of the best stories. But
I was hooked since back then.

Speaker 1 (03:07):
Yeah, do you do you now that you say that
when you say like Hogan and Warrior, when I thought
think of David o'tanga. One of the things that always
telling that to me, I'm like, this guy was always jacked,
he had a great physique. Was that something to you, though,
mad when you got into wrestling, You're like, I want
to be one of the physique guys.

Speaker 2 (03:23):
Yeah, oh absolutely, Like you know, I grew up at
like I said, in the eighties, So you had Hogan
Ultimate Warrior, I like Arnold Schwarzenegger, Sebester Saloon, you know,
Carl Weather's all these guys were. Yeah, and so like
that's what I wanted to do. I mean, clearly, Yeah,
that's awesome because when you say that, I'm like, that

(03:44):
makes part of who I am.

Speaker 1 (03:46):
That makes complete sense to me. When you say that, I'm.

Speaker 2 (03:49):
Like, you know, what, is it part of wrestling? A
bodybuilding competition?

Speaker 1 (03:53):
What you would think? You know, but you would think
it's just You're not wrong though, I'm I'm okay talking
about this cause I'm not like part of it like that,
but I will one hundred and ten and I'm sure
you'll agree with me on this. Today's professional wrestling, Like,
the athletic ability of the talent is incredible, way better
than it was back in the day. The thing they
can do things that guys back in the eighties wouldn't

(04:15):
even try to do like you know, so in that sense,
like we're way ahead of like we're in a good
place in terms of athletic ability, but the presentation part
sometimes is lacking these days. But I think that's not
only professional wrestling, Like I think that's across all sports,
where like the athletic ability is great and basketball and

(04:36):
all the other sports and stuff as well, but the
presence isn't there with everybody anymore, and I think that
larger than life presence kind of disappeared.

Speaker 2 (04:45):
I agree with you, And that's a huge part of
what we do because in this is sports entertainment, the
athletic ability is extremely important. But the other side of
that is it's your presentation with it. Because there's you know,
a ton of guys who could all do the moves,
but if you don't have the charisma or the presentation,
you don't make it. In pro wrestling, I mean, there's

(05:05):
famously guys who weren't that athletic who made it to
the top because of their charisma and their presentation.

Speaker 1 (05:14):
Yeah, and I think we've seen it a lot too,
where guys that got let go came back and one
of the things that was very common with all the
guys that came back was that they were all in
way better shape. So there's something there. There's something there.
Let's talk about your career there really quickly. Before wrestling,
you did a few things. First, you got your law

(05:35):
de be at Harvard. When did you like, so tell
me this, So you got your law to be you're
working in law. When did you decide you want to
be a professional wrestler? Is this something you want to
when you were a kid? But you put it on
the back burner, didn't think it was possibility, and then
did something else and then was like wait a minute,
or like was it something? After you got to be
like wait a minute.

Speaker 2 (05:55):
All right, so I gotta explain this. It's kind of
a long story, but it'll make sense, all right. So,
like I said, I grew up in the eighties. I
knew what I wanted to do from the time I
was six years old. I wanted to be a professional
wrestler and an action movie star. That's what I wanted
to do. But my parents were educators, and so you know,

(06:16):
my mom told me, okay, not everybody makes an entertainment
Those are great dreams, but you need to have a
fallback career. And I always did well in school, but
I you know, I'd rather be outside playing and do
it athletics. I wasn't into school, but my grades were
always really good. So I ended up going to University
of Illinois as a pre med student. I didn't really

(06:37):
want to go to medical school, but my dad wanted
me to. Sl Right, I'm trying to make my dad happy.
My dad was an immigrant from Kenya, by the way,
and so I graduated from University of Illinois. I didn't
want to go to medical school. I needed to figure
out another option here, so I ended up getting a
job at Columbia University in New York, managing a cognitive
neuroscience lab. All Right, this sounds incredibly boring to me,

(06:59):
but in my min this was awesome because this is
in New York City, and there's got to be way
more opportunities for acting in New York than where I
was in Illinois. So I'm thinking, I can my big
break get into acting, parlay that into wrestling, YadA YadA, yadah. Anyway,
I go out there. I'm working here. I'm really close
with my dad. I talk to him like every day,
and being an immigrant. You know, my dad is telling

(07:21):
me how he always wanted to be a lawyer, but
he never thought he was smart enough. Yet my dad
had his PhD, two different master's degrees, and a Certificate
of Advanced Studies, which is between a master's degree and
a PhD. So he's like the most educated person I've
ever met, which was wild to me for him to say,
like he didn't think he was smart enough to be
a lawyer. So anyway, we were talking about this and

(07:42):
I said, hey, you know what, what if I took
the ELSAT the Law school entrance exam and like for fun.
And so I called my buddy Dave, who was my
roommate in college and he's studying for the ELSAT and
I was like, hey, Dave, I think I'm going to
take the law school exam. And he's like, what this one?
And I'm like yeah, he's like three weeks away. He's like,
you can't just show up and take this test. He's like,

(08:03):
this is my second time taking it, and like the
average scores if you don't do well. But I'm trying
to explain him, Yeah, okay, I know that's great advice,
but like, this is something I'm doing for fun with
my dad. So I take the test and I did.
I did pretty good, you know, I did really good.

Speaker 1 (08:23):
Yeah, I did great.

Speaker 2 (08:24):
So my dad's really excited. And I didn't expect I
would do like I did. So he's like, well, we
got to apply to just all the top schools, the
Ivy League and stuff. And to think of it, is
I wasn't planning not applying. This was literally just I
just wanted to see what my score would be. This
would be for fun. So he's really getting into this,
and I'm like, all right, you know, so what could
this hurt? I'll play along with this. We started sending

(08:46):
out applications and stuff, and like my dad is so excited,
like I promise you. He calls me every day and
by lunch break like have you heard anything? Did you
hear back from these schools? Like Dad, we just sent
them out like you gotta wait. And I get a
call this one day and my dad had a sudden
heart attack and died and it was completely out of
the blue, and I mean, it's devastating. So trying to

(09:13):
just deal with this, and I fly home to Chicago
to be with my family, and then while I'm there,
I find out I got accepted to Harvard Law School.
So this was an incredibly bittersweet moment for me because
here's this amazing accomplishment, but my dad just missed it
and I was doing it with him, and so for

(09:35):
him just to miss, you know, this part, it was
bittersweet because I know he knows he probably had a
hand in it, but like, I still wanted to get
that hug because like for him, this would have been
you know, his championship or like this would this would
have been better than winning the lottery for him. It's
son is at Harvard Law School. But that puts me

(09:56):
in this weird place because this was something we did
for fun and it went way beyond where I thought
it was gonna go, Like I didn't intend for this
to happen, and then my dad passed, like, you know,
right right this time. So trying to figure out how
to navigate this, and my mom tells me, she's like, David,
you were not going to turn down Harvard Law School,
you know, are you kidding? And so I decided to

(10:17):
go and get my degree and I would do that
to honor my dad. So as a way to honor
my dad, and so I did, and I'm extremely happy
I did. I mean, you can see it hangs behind me,
right right near my championship titles. That's probably my proudest achievement,
just because of what it means, you know, for me,
and what it would mean for my dad. But that's
how I ended up becoming a lawyer. And then after

(10:40):
law school, you know, I had student loans and stuff,
and I wasn't thinking about being a lawyer, but I
heard how much money these law firms were offering. Let me,
let me check this out. You're gonna pay me how much?
All right, Hey, I got to get these loans, take
it care of, you know what, I'll come do this.
And so I went to the largest firm in Chicago

(11:02):
for a year, and you know, it was great. But
while I was there, I knew I was living somebody
else's dream. This wasn't my dream, Like this wasn't yeah,
and this is me a dream job for many people.
But like I told you my story, I kind of
fell into this, like I got here, but this isn't
where I was trying to go. And so I still

(11:24):
wanted to go pursue my dreams, which was professional wrestling
and acting. And during this time, I got an opportunity
to be on a reality show and I thought, hey,
you know, maybe this could help me get into too
wrestling entertainment. So I took that opportunity. I loved it.
It was very successful, and ultimately that's kind of what

(11:44):
helped me get into professional wrestling because I was on
the right track. It gave me the courage to then
completely just leave the law firm and go out on
my own and try to pursue my dreams. It was scary,
but like sometimes sometimes you need that where there's no
backup playing, you just just go.

Speaker 1 (12:00):
It's it's crazy, and I have so many questions that
I've planned here for you, but now my brain's all
over the place. First, since first, I think it is
a really cool story. It's really cool that you're you
got to do something for your dad or you got
to live very curiously through you. I also lost my
dad in twenty twenty three, so I'm sorry for a loss.
But what I realized, which is coincidence that you said

(12:21):
that part like maybe had a hand a plane, is
like a lot of good things started happen to me
after my dad passed away. In terms of like in
my career life, not in my personal life obviously it's hard,
but in my career life, and I'm like, maybe there's
something I play here, So it's good to think of
it that way, you know, Like this is like, you know,
I did a law for him before he passed away,
and maybe this was the only way he knew he

(12:42):
could pay me back because there's probably no other way
he could have. Right, So I like that you put
that out there when you said maybe he has to
play with it, because I think maybe he did, you know,
just some like my own experiences, like and you were
he knew what you were doing, and maybe everything that
followed that you were able to was also part of
him being like, Okay, well you did my thing, I'll
go do your.

Speaker 2 (13:00):
Then that could be that could be that could be
your own guardian angel one hundred percent.

Speaker 1 (13:08):
And then also I want to point out the fact
that isn't that crazy how that happen sometimes when you
start doing something as a joke and then it becomes
the whole thing. But like just for fun, Yeah, I
started this whole wrestling thing because my skirlfriend didn't want
to have Instagram, so deactivated my Instagram account and made
a wrestling page, and now I'm out here interviewing the
likes of view of interviewed Stone Cold and staying in
the media for w W and AW and all this stuff.

(13:31):
But it's just like everyone's like, how did this start?
I'm like, it wasn't really. I was working at the bank.
I was I was giving out loans and then opening
accounts and hedge funds, and now I'm doing this wrestling stuff.
So I think that's cool. I think it's I honestly
think that could be like a movie itself, your your
own story there. It's a it's a cool little scenario.

Speaker 2 (13:48):
Thank you. Yeah, yeah, I think it could be. You know,
that'd be interesting, Like I wonder who I would get
to play myself or obviously I'd want to play myself,
do like an eminem like eight mile type thing or something. Yeah, yeah,
I don't know. There could be something there.

Speaker 4 (14:03):
What's everybody? This is are here from Raine City Toys.
Hope you guys enjoyed the show. Make sure you guys
subscribe to our YouTube channel, The Wrestling Classic. Check out
the tw C shows that Justin and I did weekly.
Also subscribe to just yappin Justin and I Talk about
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If you guys are looking figures, hit me up. Got
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(14:23):
some of the newer guys like CM Punk.

Speaker 1 (14:25):
You got some Stone Cold, Steve Auston.

Speaker 4 (14:27):
Anything you're looking for, just hit me up, follow me
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rain City Toys kind of falling behind me justin here
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comment and share, and you guys.

Speaker 1 (14:41):
Go back to the show. And I hope you guys enjoyed.
It's a wild resume. You went to Harvard, you worked
in law, You on reality TV. It was it was
that New York show right with New York. From the
Flavor from from the Flavor Flame. She got her own
spin off at her show. I remember the whole I
remember the whole scenario over events. I watched the Flavor
Flavor for Love. I remember, and then and then that

(15:03):
got you out there where you got noticed by the
world of professional wrestling. But tell me how the reality
show experience gave you the courage to like put yourself
out there because obviously that was something you have to do. Like, Okay,
you did all this stuff which was education, you know,
behind the scenes, work at a law firm. Now you're
out there, you're on television. You have to put yourself

(15:24):
out there. Were you always okay with doing that or
was that something you're.

Speaker 2 (15:26):
Used to Okay, well, okay, so this is how this
is how I got into that is. So I'm working
at the law firm and I've already realized, you know,
I want to go pursue entertainment. I just I can't
figure out how to make that step because I'm also
working sixteen hours a day. Yeah, I don't really have
time to like try to go on auditions and whatnot.

(15:48):
But anyway, I'm working at the firm and I get
a phone call one day and it's on my cell
phone and it's a casting director and they're like, ahy,
it is David o'telldam And I'm like yeah, They're like, oh,
you know, we'd like to set up your you're idiot,
excuse me, your audition for I Love New York too.
And I'm like, wait, my what, Like yeah, yeah, you know,
we have your your profile right in front of us,

(16:10):
you know, you're you're a lawyer from Harvard, you're a bodybuilder,
you're an actor, Like, yeah, that's true, but I didn't
submit an audition. Like I'm actually confused. I don't know
how you have my cell phone number. But I thought,
I don't know if this is a prank, but it
sounded legit. I get off the phone. I call my
sister and I'm laughing about this. But you're not gonna
believe this crazy story. It just happened. Somebody called me
and she's like, no way, somebody's messing with you. We

(16:32):
get off the phone and she calls me back later
she's like, you're not gonna believe this. But I had
a niece who's thirteen years old at the time, and
she's autistic, and she actually typed up this profile and
sent it to this casting director for me, because like
she was a huge fan of the shows, and this
is just what she did and it worked. But the
thing is, like, it's crazy, Like it actually worked, and

(16:55):
so you know, I turned the show down like three times,
and I explained to them, you know, I'm working at
the most prestigious firm in Chicago. I can't just leave
and go do a reality show. I mean, this isn't
what I'm trying to do anyway. I wanted to be
an actor, but you know, in one of the last
conversations I have with them, they were like, well, if
you ever had any plans of being an actor getting

(17:17):
into entertainment, this could be a great first step. And
I was like, oh, man, just the way that this
came about and it was so organic and like the
universe brought it to me or you know, God, God
could have literally brought this to me. So I was like,
you know what, I'll entertain this. So I did the
reality show. I loved it. Man. I had such a

(17:38):
blast because I watched the first season of it, so
I knew what it was and I went into it
just you know, like taking it and enjoying it for
what it is and playing along with it. And so
I had such a great time and it was a
hit man, Like I'm telling you, like, I did not
expect it to be like this. So I remember literally,
you know, walking down the street nobody the next week

(18:01):
once that first show aired, people literally were calling me, oh, punk, yo,
you're punk, You're punk? Like, whoa this is? This is crazy?
And then like what was really wild to me is
like celebrities knew me. This is like the by Space time,
Like celebrities were hit me at by Space, like you know,
you're my favorite of the show. This is crazy.

Speaker 1 (18:23):
That was like reality TV shows were like just during
really now we have a lot of them all the time,
but they were just popping off a lot, you know,
you know, Big Brother was getting more popular. The Real
World was like top of the thing. MTV was doing
all these shows. You were getting the Surreal Life and
everything starting and it was it was it was a
time to be on there. So that's awesome. It's crazy

(18:44):
because it's like you're like a very intelligent Forrest Gump.
You've just done a lot of things, a lot of
and a lot of scenes, and someone might want something
be like, hey, is that David O?

Speaker 2 (18:56):
What is uh? That's accurate?

Speaker 1 (18:58):
Yeah, whether it's like someone's a legal case or someone
on TV or wrestling or a movie or a TV show,
what's one thing you think people would find really surprising
about you. They'd see something like what he was in
that I didn't even realize that.

Speaker 2 (19:12):
Hmm, I'd say, I'd say she hulk. Yeah, Marvel, that's
been a big one. Because for example, like people I'd
be at the gym, this would happen a lot, and
like guys would come up to me recently, they'd be like,
oh my gosh, you're You're in Seahawk. I was watching that.
I was like, Yo, that's the guy from my gym,

(19:33):
like like that that's him. And it wasn't even people
who do me as David o'tuga or that I was
a wrestler. I did all this other stuff, but it
was just that's the guy from the gym and he's
in Sheehall. Like then when I got that role, like
people were reporting that David O'tunga was doing a cameo. No,
I was not doing a cameo. I auditioned like everybody

(19:54):
else and got a legit role in it. This character Derek.
I did not play David o'tanga. So happy. It is
interesting that she Hulk is an attorney and I am
as well, and it's an incredible haul. It happened to
be my favorite Marvel character. And you know, I do
put time into my physique. However, none of that had
anything to do with getting the role. I think the

(20:15):
producers were shocked with all of a sudden this guy
who just has, you know, like a regular role out here,
like he's getting all this press about this, like wait,
who's this what? Yeah it is?

Speaker 1 (20:25):
Yeah, and he's a lawyer and he's a bodybuilder.

Speaker 2 (20:31):
This guy doesn't even seem real.

Speaker 1 (20:33):
What Yeah, yeah, that's what I mean. Then, a very intelligent,
strong Forrest Gump. We are going on here. Let me
let me ask you this then, because I was gonna
jump to the movie stuff at the end, let's talk
about that. Before he get into wrestling, you were in Shehulk,
And now that I heard your story at the beginning,
I know the show wasn't so much of that. But
for someone that wanted to be like an action hero

(20:54):
is one of your dreams, was wrestler in an action hero?
Being in the Marvel Cinematic universe is as big as
it gets as being an action hero. So how cool
is it to know that you're now part of this universe?

Speaker 2 (21:06):
Oh? Brother? That I mean that that was amazing?

Speaker 1 (21:08):
That was it?

Speaker 2 (21:09):
Like like for my son and I that's our goal
for me, Like, yeah, well, actually I want to I
want my own superhero role, Like I want to have
like a legitimate character. That's that's our goal. So it
was really cool just to get into she Hall because
incredible Hal is my favorite character and so being able
to be part of that show. Getting into the Marvel universe,
that was a win for us. Like it's a win,

(21:30):
like Kobe said, job's not finished. Yeah, so I got
to get a higher role in it. But anyway, it
was just awesome getting my foot in the door and
just being a part of that.

Speaker 1 (21:40):
Man is really like, it's insane. I'm thinking of that
also came full circle in a way. So but we'll
so manifesting the main superhero role. We'll put that out there.
You're also part of the Tyler Perry universe. You and
the medies The Funeral Wife. You got the name of
the one, but I watched it The Family Funeral, that's
the one. How is it? How is it to be
part of that? Because those movies are you know, some

(22:03):
hit or misses, but they're always fine. The Media character
is fantastic. I don't think, yeah, I don't think you know,
I think you know, people at real life stuff get
into it in the kind of star but I'm like, no,
she's hilarious. He's hilarious when when he plays media. How
does it feel to be part of that universe as well,
because at the end of the day, people are gonna
remember it. So for this generation is going to remember it.

Speaker 2 (22:20):
Yeah, yeah, no, they will. No, it's awesome being part
of that too. And you know, that was a role
Tyler hand picked me for and you know, called and
told me he'd written a role for me, and so
that was I mean, that's amazing to get a phone
call like that, Like, I'll never forget that. And then
working with Tyler was amazing because he played four different

(22:41):
characters in this meeting and there's there's a scene where
all four of them are talking to each other and
in the middle of a conversation and I remember being
right there in that scene. We filmed it like all
day because he had to play each of the four
parts and then them interacting with everybody, and it really
just showed his brilliance all, you know, in one scene

(23:03):
and like how he's able to do this and keep
this straight, and I mean it was it was impressive
to watch, you know.

Speaker 1 (23:09):
Extremely it's insane because it is its own cinematic universe,
like everyone somehow related but not And it's this uncle's knee,
so this person's nephewer, this person's cousin. It's like, now
you're part of that universe too. You're tied in this
giant family now, which is cool. You got to work
with Halle Berry mcalling. How was that? How was that?
I was working with Halle Berry? Especially being an eighties

(23:31):
nineties kid that grew up with Ali Berry, must have
been an experience.

Speaker 2 (23:34):
I mean, are you kidding me?

Speaker 1 (23:35):
Helle?

Speaker 2 (23:40):
And she was so sweet. She's so nice, And I
think that made it even better because it would be
terrible if you meet her. Yes, this awful person, but
she's she's just as sweet as like you see on TV.
And like they say, don't meet your heroes or people
look up to, but like, you know, she she was great. Yeah,
she was awesome.

Speaker 1 (23:59):
Take it back for a second to us, How what
is your relationship with Tyler Perry? How do you guys
know each other if you haven't picked you like that?

Speaker 2 (24:07):
I did The Haves and the have Nots. I did
an episode of that years back, and so he was
really impressed with my work then, and you know, stayed
in touch and he said, you know, he would keep
me in mind for some stuff. And then when he
had this film, that's that's where he got me from.
But yeah, I did. I did one one episode and
I played a police officer.

Speaker 1 (24:28):
And is it not the best when someone actually says
that and then they like mean it and then it
comes around.

Speaker 2 (24:36):
That's a classic. That's a classic blowoff line. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (24:40):
Thanks, I'll let you know something comes down the line.
Oh I don't know, but something will come up and
you're like, nothing's coming up. Will hop in a call sometime. Okay, Sure,
that's awesome. Let's get in dressling speaking about the business.
That's song for wrestling. First things first, looking at the
performance center and everything. Now, were you part of the

(25:01):
FCW class rate before the performance center because you were
the first next an XT class? Right?

Speaker 2 (25:06):
Correct? Yeah, I was part of the FCW class one
or two before the performance center. Okay, And I've been
to the performance center and boy it is it's unbelievable.
It's the rich Carlton compare the FCW man. You just
had a warehouse with you know, three rings in one room,

(25:27):
and then we had one nice room for TV or
one nice ring for TV, which was like your parents'
living room with a plastic on everything. You can't go away.
There a Tiler's Company, but otherwise you got to go
play in the back in the three rings. But like
that performance center, man, they have a gym in there,
they have pt they have recovery, they have a common area.
It looks like a little campus.

Speaker 1 (25:47):
Like in college.

Speaker 2 (25:48):
Like, oh, it's it's nice. Man, they got everything.

Speaker 1 (25:53):
Asking what do you what do you think about this
new performance center as someone that came up in the
ft FCW warehouse over there, But.

Speaker 2 (25:59):
I think I think it's long overdue though, But I
know I'm sad that they have it, Like I wish,
I wish we would have had that, but you know,
they finally got that together, and I think that's just
amazing for him.

Speaker 1 (26:11):
Who who was in your class of FCW? Who are
you there with that people might remember.

Speaker 2 (26:16):
I started the same day as Taylor Rotunda, Bo Dallas
and then h Wydom Rotunda came right after that Rest
in Peace? Who's pray Wyatt? And so we literally like
started at the same time. West Briscoe was with us.
The Ussos came not too long after. Those are my guys, Uh,

(26:38):
the Beli twins were there, Seamous Wade Bear, Drew McIntyre,
everybody from from n X t Little Wild Class.

Speaker 1 (26:47):
Yeah yeah, yeah, that's insane. You have a one specific
either funny or solid memory from that era an FCW
that you could share, like something that really when you
think about SCW, like well that that was a funny
thing or that was something that was stressful.

Speaker 2 (27:04):
Man, there's there's a lot like Okay, because somebody asked
me this, and I was talking about this yesterday, but
there was a guy I worked with. He was great.
His name was MAXI McGirk. Shout out to Max McGirk,
And this was I was always a baby face in FCW,
and this was right when I got to turn heel.
And I remember we were doing at FCW live event.

(27:25):
This was like again like one of my first matches
is being a heel and it was at a car
dealership outside in their parking lot. So Saturday morning, I
don't know, it was twenty five people there, who knows
fifty I don't know anyway, so it's baby faces up,
all the baby faces are going over, all right, cool.
Max's good move was this missile drop kick, so that

(27:48):
was basically going to be his finisher. All right, cool, cool,
We do the thing. I first get to put heat
on him. And I'm excited because I'm getting to be
a heel and like you know, this is flood. All right,
we go to the end, all right, run through his
come back. I'm down. I'm getting ready to get up
for this missile drop kick. Get up, all right? He
hits me with it, boom, I take the bump. All cool,
I'm happy, I'm probably. Yeah, this match was decent. I'm

(28:10):
laying there waiting for him to cover me, thinking to myself,
this was decent. He's taken a little while, YO asks
what are you doing. I look up. I look across
the rig and he's like his eyes rolled back and
the head knocked himself out on his own, on his
own move. That's how I'm like what. I look over
and the ref is like, just cover it all over

(28:32):
and cover him one two three. I won because the
baby face knocked himself out his missile drop kick, so
I just covered him and what But it was it
just was so funny to me because like, I mean,
come on, man, come on, wait, this is the kind
of thing that happened to fc W. He was a
great guy too, but I mean he was he was
still learning also, but yeah, it just made for a

(28:54):
while bat.

Speaker 1 (28:56):
That's what I always think about. People forget about when
it comes to even like watching NXT's like I think,
I know what's on TV and it's a big like
it's you know, it's the third show. But I'm like,
you know, ninety percent of the people on this show
are still learning and people need to remember that. Sometimes
like they get to harsh and I'm like, yeah, look
there are mostly people were athletes that were trained from scratch,
so like they're still learning. You won the original NXT though,

(29:19):
which coincidentally was more like a reality show than a
wrestling show. Yes, and you were the runner up. How
do you feel about that first NXT experience? Eventually after
like two three seasons, had changed to a wrestling show,
but and originally it was a game show. You guys
are doing contest and promo contests and all this type

(29:40):
of stuff.

Speaker 2 (29:42):
I'm so glad that you said that, because I think
people forget because they see what NXT is now NXT
when when I did, it was a reality show, Like
it was not the third brand. It was not like
we're backed out. It was a reality show. And what
people don't realize is it was legit for us, like

(30:02):
like okay, all right, wrestling, hey guys, sorry, wrestling is
scripted and predetermined, right, But this reality show they tried
to make legit like for us, like for the boys.

Speaker 5 (30:15):
Now, I don't understand why they had to do it.
The whole thing is a work. The audience doesn't know.
The audience thinks we're in on it, but we really weren't.
So who were we really fooling here?

Speaker 2 (30:26):
The only people were being fooled were us, Like we
us because everybody else knows, and like we didn't know
what was gonna happen from week to week like for real,
like they they kfaved us. Like when we did those
promo battles, that was legit. They just gave us a
word on the spot. Now, you could have told us
or given us even a few words. It could have

(30:46):
been so we could have prepared, like you know, good
promos looked polished, But that's not what they wanted to do.
But I don't know if you know the audience actually
knew that, but that that was legit. So for me,
I did well, I think because I came from reality
TV and I knew what to expect, so I always

(31:07):
treated it like that. Whereas I think some of the
other guys were thrown off too, because they're like wait, wait,
wait this is for real or like or what. But anyway,
it was fun. It was fun, and uh, you know,
being runner up, I feel like I should have won,
but I feel like that might have been the only

(31:27):
part that was that was rigged, is that I had
to be yeah who won.

Speaker 1 (31:33):
But but yeah, but it's interesting. Yeah, it's interesting because,
like I don't think because it's not really out there
a lot to these episodes of the game show stuff,
and it's like every other sort of reality showed u
W try doing this also speaks volumes again and once
how popular reality shows were in the two thousands. It

(31:56):
would have been done like not in the arenas. It
was like at the facility off and off wherever they're
training people. They were doing this in front of the
live crowd. That's they just see you wrestling like the
rest of the wrestling. So they just assumed it was
just like everything else. When it's like, no, hey, guys,
this part of the show is real, but the part
you're supposed to think is real is not real, right, right,

(32:16):
it's a little confusing. Yeah it is, it is, And
I fort pressure on you guys because you guys are
learning and they're basically saying, we're gonna see on live
television what you guys are really good and not good at.

Speaker 2 (32:28):
And it's like right, and whoa, that's that's a great point.
And for somebody like me, Like up to that point,
I think I only had fourteen months of wrestling experience
from the day I learned how to lock up or
walk in the ring for the very first time until
I debuted on NXT on live TV, Like it was

(32:50):
fourteen months, sixteen months, max, Yeah, and so I only
had a handful of matches under my belt. Like, look,
nobody is going to turn down that opportunity. But even
I'm telling them, hey, look guys, I think you might
be pushing me a little fast, Like yeah, I want
to be on the main roster and everything, but I
also want to know what I'm doing, you know, Like yeah,

(33:12):
like I don't feel quite like I've got a handle
on everything yet, but I want to do what you
guys are asking me to do. So man, that was
a lot of pressure on me. Like I knew I
could talk, like my promos were great, but like in
the ring, hey, man, I may have only had a
handful of matches up to this point.

Speaker 1 (33:31):
And it's a little bit it's a little bit intimidating
kind of a mind game because it's like, Okay, we're
all here, we know what the winner is probably going
to get. What about the rest of us, Like what
is the point of this? Like are we supposed to
be like losers?

Speaker 2 (33:44):
Or are we written on for like Welling is like
we knew whoever won was going to get a contract,
but the word was that whoever didn't they were probably
going to be fired, maybe which is the runner up,
but like everybody else was going to be fired. Like
that was you had your chance on TV and you
didn't get over, so you're done. And that's what made

(34:05):
like the Nexus debut. That's what made that so real
and why that was different from like any other invasion
there's ever been is because there was the real threat
of us losing our job. Vince told us that before
we went out that if this didn't look right, we
were going to be fired.

Speaker 1 (34:21):
How when did you guys find out about the invasion?
And like was everyone kind of like, oh so I'll
staying like or when did people find out?

Speaker 2 (34:31):
Yeah, so the week after the finale, they called all
of us to TV and the guys who were eliminated
and everything, and this was weird because Wade was the
only one who had a contract, so we knew he
was safe, but the rest of us, like, we didn't
know what was going on. And the consensus was we
thought we were all being fired because nobody talked to

(34:53):
us all day. Like it was weird. Yeah, and they
wouldn't tell us anything that was going on, and I
think doors my have been open, like this was not.
This was an hour, maybe half an hour before the
show started, and they called all of us into Vince's
room in his office and it's him and Michael Hayes,
and we're like, oh, man, you know here it is.

(35:13):
But then they hand out these armbands with the Nexus
logo on it and they explained that they want us
to build down to the ring in the main event
and just wreak havoc, take out John Cena, Cmpong, take
out everybody moving, ring announcer, whoever's there, the referee, tear
the ring up. And Vince described it as we should

(35:33):
look like wild animals, and he said, like this has
to look bad, it has to look vicious. And real,
and if it didn't look vicious enough, we were all fired.
And so that's a lot of pressure. So we're literally
going out there to fight for our jobs. And remember,
like I was saying, like I only had about fourteen
months experience at this point. So we had to go

(35:56):
down there and I had to kick it off. I
had to punch the referee chain patent. Now, like I said,
I'm just learning, and I don't know if you know,
but throwing a wrestling punch at the working punch is
tough and it's like it takes years of practice, and
I had to do it first. So I'm like, look,
I can't mess this up. This has to look good.
So my mind, I'm like, hey, you know, Chad might

(36:17):
just have to eat one tonight. I'll apologize to it later.
Hopefully I don't knock any teeth out. But this is
what we had to do. And so like that's why
that invasion was. It felt so organic and real because
we were out there trying to impress Vince, trying to
fight for our spots. And so then when we came
to the back, like we were, we were nervous, like
we didn't know if we did a good enough job

(36:39):
or what. But we came to the back to a
standing ovation and Vince was really happy. So then we
were like, all right, well at least we bought ourselves
another week.

Speaker 1 (36:49):
Yeah, I understand why I like it, But it is
ironic that like Brian choking Justin Roberts got him fired
when it's like, look as vicious as you can, you're fired.
But I know what I get, like sponsors and all that,
but I just mean, they're just ironic.

Speaker 2 (37:04):
It's funny.

Speaker 1 (37:05):
But I think things worked out for him, all right,
b Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think he did all right
for himself. But I don't think I'm less Like obviously
I'm old enough. I'm like a nineties kid. I don't
think people realize now because it didn't play out in
the best way, like overall, it just became seen beating everybody.
But how cool that moment was in the moment and

(37:26):
how different it was because the product was kind of
not the best at the time and that happened and
it felt like something new. And they've tried to recreate
that matteric they tried to do with retribution, They're tried
to just it's never like I was that time when
you guys did it, But how much of that and
I'm not saying like those guys weren't, but how much
of that was because you guys were so hungry to
make an impact and be like, hey, we don't know

(37:47):
what you just put us doing this game show the
way to make this work.

Speaker 2 (37:51):
It was that too. Now I think I think that
was the main ingredient or the key ingredient is because
this was real for us and they treated it like that.
And we were supposed to keep up k fabe too,
like backstage and like out of the ring, like we
weren't supposed to talk to the boys in the locker room.
We were supposed to travel with each other. We weren't
supposed to sign autographs at the airport, nothing like that.

(38:13):
And if we were, this was like a frat Like
if we were caught with somewhere without our armband on,
even at the gym, like we could be fined for it,
like it was. Yeah, it was legit. We always So
there's tons of pictures of me, like at home, like
with my son, I got that armband on no matter
what I'm doing. I think I got it on when
I wearing a suit somewhere sometime had to be a

(38:33):
public like I don't know, but a part of the
magic was this really was real to us. And also
like a lot of the boys were jealous of us,
and I remember like people just treating us different. And
you know, I remember some guys tell us, we'll enjoy
it now because you're in the top spot, You're never
gonna be here again. I'm like, whoa man, Like we
just started. I just came from n XTW Like, hey,

(38:58):
why are you guys throwing shade? We didn't ask for this,
but we're here. You know we're doing but.

Speaker 1 (39:04):
They're just jealous. You guys got shot to the top
of the card right away. That's all it was. So
it works right. Hey, Yo, it's your boy, the Wrestling
Classic Justin and I'm here to tell you guys about
one of wrestling's best kept secrets. For merchandise, officially licensed
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(39:27):
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Speaker 2 (39:32):
They got it all.

Speaker 1 (39:33):
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They got merchandise for everybody on NXT. You got og
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(39:53):
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(40:13):
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(40:35):
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doing the thing, the Leader. Yeah, it was interesting though,
because it is. It sucks that they started a season
two with the game show again, because that would have
been like the perfect angle of just it was this
game show that's mad now taken over and like it

(40:57):
made a lot of sense. I'm gonna say the names
of the people in the give me like a one
sentence either description or something good about them or something
to remember about them. Michael Tarvor Tarvor.

Speaker 2 (41:06):
O Tarvor is one of my best friends. Like he
was super cool the moment I met him in FCW,
so him and I always clicked.

Speaker 1 (41:14):
Yeah, why do you think we didn't see more from Tarvor?
In your opinion?

Speaker 2 (41:18):
Off?

Speaker 1 (41:19):
Like, don't give me the real reason, Like what do
you think was missing or might have didn't happen?

Speaker 2 (41:23):
Wait, the real reason?

Speaker 1 (41:25):
Don't give me the real reason? I wants yea, yeah,
because that's okay. I think people can look that up
and find it. But what do you think that.

Speaker 2 (41:34):
My opinion, I do know the real reasons so I
would have to tell you I think it was more
politics backstage, Like Tarvor is really talented. I mean the
guy really is, and like he gives a great promo,
He's got a great look. He was great, but like
there was some heat with his finishing move was was
a punch and big show was using a punch and

(41:57):
they want Tarvor to do that. It was stuff like that,
and then he he did something else that I guess
somebody else wanted and they kept feeling like he was
stepping on people's toes. But like he had like a
run DMC T shirt one time, and Sena had a
shirt that I don't know was different. This was wild
to me. I don't know how this had anything to
do with anything, but Tarbor caught heat for it for

(42:17):
wearing a run dm S shirt that they they thought
reminded people of Sena. I don't know, but yeah, he
was talented and I felt bad for him. Like it it,
you know, seemed like it was just politics.

Speaker 1 (42:29):
But how about Slater.

Speaker 2 (42:32):
Oh, Heath heath Man, He's he's fun, he's fun. That
asked one of my guys too, that I had so
much fun just be it with Heath. We traveled together
a bunch of times too. Yeah, funny stories, but yeah,
Heath was great.

Speaker 1 (42:46):
How crazy is that? He just got so over and
everyone was running with the Wendy's chat like it just
he came into his own.

Speaker 2 (42:52):
You know. And that's the thing is, like Heath is
one of those guys. Whatever you give him, he's gonna
make it great. He'll just take it for whatever it
is and find some way to make it his own.
And I mean that just is a testament to you
know how talented he is.

Speaker 1 (43:06):
He took that whole I Got Kids line and made
it an entire gimmick. So says a lot. Justin Gabriel,
Super talented Justin Gabriel.

Speaker 2 (43:13):
Yeah, that's my guy, PJ. He actually had my first match.
Him and I wrestled my first match, so he carried
me through it. We had a six minute broadway at
a flea market, right, I.

Speaker 1 (43:26):
Just it took me a second to get there. But
you said, a six minute broadway.

Speaker 2 (43:30):
Six minutes sixty six minute, a six minute, bro that's awesome.

Speaker 1 (43:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (43:39):
Darren Young, he's one of my good fons. We still
talk Darren Young. Also, I just saw Darren Young a
couple of months ago in La ran into him. Yeah,
you know, it's like anytime I see any of these guys, man,
it's like we we pick up right where we left
off and we just stop and talk for everybody. Yeah,
Darren Young was great. He I had my first match
in on NXT with him. So Darren's been a good

(43:59):
for a long time. To another guy who's you know,
super talented. He's in New Japan now during his training.
Guys like, yeah, man.

Speaker 1 (44:07):
He's at the dojo down there. It's crazy because it
literally is kind of like a fraternity, like your buddies
you went to high school with, right, you see them
and everything's all good. You're like, oh hey, what's up. Yeah,
Rye back Skip Sheffield at the time a ryeback. What
are your memories with him?

Speaker 2 (44:20):
Oh? Man, we clicked. I mean we're both big into
you know, bodybuilded and fitness and Utritish all that stuff.
So like we would talk about that all the time,
Like we took the gym serious and so it was
cool just we connected on that. He's super talented also
because like he you know him, his Rye Back, but
at that time he was Skip Sheffield and the only

(44:42):
reason he was Skip Sheffield is they they wanted him
to do something funny in FCW, and so he just
did this character as like a promo. Then they made
him keep doing it. So that's why, like they tell
you be careful like your FCW or NXC these characters
that you do because they might stick. And that's what
ended up happening with Rye Back. And I remember he
was good with the Skip Schofield, but he always wanted

(45:03):
to become right Back. And then I was happy when
they finally let him become right back. Yeah, that was
that was the right fit for him. Although Skip was
Skip was a funny character.

Speaker 1 (45:11):
Man, it was funny. And it's crazy is that transition
when he became right Back, because like it's totally different,
but like if fit and it was over. Right Back
was over. As much as people might want to revision
is history that stuff was, he was over. He came
in as the indie darling. He had a reputation in
the indies. I knew him since he was in the
Ring of Honor and stuff. You what was it like
working with Brian.

Speaker 2 (45:30):
That It was cool. It was interesting to me because
I didn't know who he was. I had no idea
who this guy is and then they were telling me
he's supposed to be the best of the world.

Speaker 1 (45:41):
This hey man, he didn't have he didn't have the
he didn't have the physique thing going on.

Speaker 2 (45:48):
You, hey man, no disrespect. This guy didn't have anything. Hey,
they near the factor. He's a nice guy like you.
You would never think that he was a rest He
might think he was a librarian or something. No, he
but he you know, obviously it's extremely talented. It had
been all over the world that it didn't take me

(46:08):
long to realize, Oh yeah, no, this guy is really yeah, yeah,
yeah Wade Barrett. Oh wait wait that's my guy too. Man,
he's funny, but yeah, I think he's you know, super talented.
Also cuts a great promo. I think part of it
was like he he knew who his character was, and

(46:28):
you know, he's he was great at playing his character.

Speaker 1 (46:32):
So yeah, how just is this is more of like
a fan question at this point, but like, am I
I am I alone here thinking that if that Nexus
run would have been a lot more successful Wade won
the title at that at some point from seeing her
or somebody like, I just feel like that was where
the ball dropped a little bit.

Speaker 2 (46:50):
I think that that was supposed to be the plan.
I actually think the plan was is that at some
point we were supposed to hold all the titles. I
think Wade was supposed to hold, you know, the World Championship,
Slater and Gabriel we're gonna hold the Tag Championships, and
I think I was supposed to either have the inter
Continent Metal or the US title, and I think that's

(47:11):
what they were trying to go for. But then at
some point, well, I was going to overthrow Wade and
then take over the Nexus. But like that was the
plan we filmed it. Yeah, it was a cliffhanger. But
then you come back see him Punk is now our
new leader? What well? Yeah, what is this random storyline?

(47:34):
And from where? Why? Why?

Speaker 1 (47:36):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (47:37):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (47:38):
I just it felt like it's like a it had
it ended because Wade never I almost thought it should
have happened to that survived. I think it was a
Survivor series where I like Sino was the raff and
if he made a mistake then he would have got fired.
I'm like Wade should have won the belt. There would
have changed everything, would have made that's a bigger thing.
And then how cool is if we to see him
back in the mix again doing commentary in the W family.

Speaker 2 (48:00):
Gone, I think that's I think that's awesome. Yeah, and
I'm glad he's here. He's doing well. Yeah, glad to
see him back.

Speaker 1 (48:07):
And let's talk about that new nexus. So quickly run
through those names and we'll go back to wrestling.

Speaker 2 (48:10):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (48:11):
In the New NEXTUS you got to work with Mason Ryan.
How was that situation with Mason?

Speaker 2 (48:16):
Oh, Barry, he's great man, He's huge dude.

Speaker 1 (48:20):
He's an acting and stuff now too, right.

Speaker 2 (48:22):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and I'm pretty sure I heard it
last heard he was doing so let also.

Speaker 1 (48:26):
Which okay, yeah, yeah, I think I heard that too.

Speaker 2 (48:28):
Yeah, I think he's been doing that for a while.
But Barry Man, Yeah, we used to travel together. He's
a good dude.

Speaker 1 (48:34):
Man.

Speaker 2 (48:34):
Miss him.

Speaker 1 (48:35):
Yeah, obviously, Husky Harris bird White. You guys are also learned
New NEXTUS together. How was it working with him during
that time? Oh?

Speaker 2 (48:42):
Man, it's awesome. And like I said, like we started
together in FCW, so I knew him. I knew wind
him for a long time, and you know, it was
cool just like traveling with him. Man. He he was
such a genuine person like. It hurt. It hurt a
lot when I heard, you know that he passed just
because man, not him, not him. So still still a

(49:07):
tough one. But yeah, I remember, like we stayed at
his in law's house one time on the road and
it was cool, man and just uh just being friends,
like and back in Florida. I remember like before his
kids were born and stuff like.

Speaker 4 (49:23):
Man.

Speaker 2 (49:24):
Yeah, so many memories, so many memories. But anyway, Yeah,
rest in peace, man.

Speaker 1 (49:28):
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(49:49):
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(50:11):
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(50:32):
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(50:52):
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(51:14):
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Speaker 2 (51:21):
Of the drops.

Speaker 1 (51:22):
You won the tie titles with Michael McGillicutty ak Court
heading son Joe Henning. How was that? But then also
why do you think it never like like Joe never
clicked as much as he should have. Then they tried
they put him with Hayman, he won the IC title.
What's what's your opinion on Joe? And then why do
you think that didn't work out?

Speaker 2 (51:42):
I think part of it was they should have let
him have his name like they always were trying to
keep him separate from being mister perfect son, which is
weird because everybody knew these mister perfect son. Why why
are we why are we try to ignore this fact?
And I think I think that you know, well, I
know that always bothered him too, But he's super talented also,

(52:04):
And I don't really know. I don't think they ever,
you know, truly invested in him. I don't know if
they didn't know what to do, like they they did
try at some point, but I don't know if it
was ever the right fit for him, to be honest, Yeah,
I wish they would have done more with him, because, like,
the guy is super talented, like he he should have been,
you know, champion at some point.

Speaker 1 (52:24):
I love how like even though you guys won the titles,
he had like fast forward like three four years and
he never got eliminated from the war rumble and you
were like the the legal guy that was like on
his side, and like, no, he never got eliminated. He's
the winner. Yeah, And I was like, hey, let's start
rocking together new nexus over here. He's back. He left

(52:45):
for seven years. Didn't think anyone A lot of people
didn't think it was ever coming back. But punk is back.
How was it being under the punk learning for another
guy similar to Brian, who came with a big reputation,
an indie guy has a different perspective of professional wrestling.
How was working with see him Punk?

Speaker 2 (53:01):
It was cool, man, I learned a lot, you know,
just because we used to travel with him McGill, Cuddy
and I used to drive him, and you know, so
we would have these long card talks and you know,
he's he's a good guy. Like he's he's unique. His
personality may not be for everybody, but like you know,
and if it doesn't seem like he likes everybody, but
if he likes you, he likes you, you know what

(53:21):
I mean. So, like, I don't think he liked me
at all, to be I'm the fact, I'm pretty sure
he did not, But I will say that, you know,
in terms of in traveling with him, I do know
that he liked at least respected me by the end. No,
I know he liked me because like he did something
really cool for me a few times. So yeah, no, no,

(53:44):
we ended up having a good relationship. And I like Punk,
I told this story that's long ago. Uh, when he
the pipe bomb promo, like McGill and Cuddy and I
were driving him at that time, and Yo, he worked
me on that, like he went out and did that.
I was shocked. Backstage, was with Joe, Yo, Joe, are
you here, Like I don't know if we should be

(54:04):
saying this, like he said this to us in the car,
but like what's he doing? And then I was like, oh, man,
he's he's gonna be fired for real. And when he
came backstage, I made sure I went and sat by
to it. But I was like, hey, bro, that's what
I tell you just in case I don't see you again.
It's been real good to know you, you know, good
luck or whatever, and he and he was laughing. He
was like, oh, you'll see me again. And I was like, man,

(54:28):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (54:29):
I don't know about that, bro, he said one Vincent's data.

Speaker 2 (54:35):
Yeah, man, hey, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (54:38):
Well that's crazy because you know, I've heard a few
of those stories and people didn't know if it was
real not Like I've talked to Chris Masters and others
and they're like, no, we had no idea. Like it
was kind of like wait what. But it also kind
of sucks because indirectly that ended the whole new next
to the storyline and it became the Summer of Punk
and then it was just kind of there was no
sign for you guys that this was happening. That's that's

(55:02):
that's interesting, Sina. You got to win the tag titles
with Sina. When Sina's retirement year, how was it working
with Sena And since it is his retirement year, maybe
give him his flowers but something maybe you leent from him.

Speaker 2 (55:14):
Oh, I learned so much from John Cena. He was
my favorite opponent, my favorite person to work with. Probably,
if I'm being honest, he probably was my favorite superstar
just because, like, you know, everything that he was doing,
he's somebody that you know, I tried to emulate in
a way and like with my career too. But he's

(55:36):
he's a good dude man and he's really funny. But
he was hard on us. But he was hard on
me in particular scene. It was really hard on me.
But he told me like it's because he really liked
me and you know, was trying to push me. He
just I think his way of getting the best out
of people is tough love, which maybe isn't always how
people like, you know, like to learn. But like he met, well,

(55:59):
you know what I mean, he really cares about this business,
and I really did learn a lot from him, Like
he helped me perfect my my lawyer character in the
bow tie and then even like my posing routine, he
helped me work on that on an overseas tour one time,
so like, and he gave me just a lot of
a lot of advice. And so I honestly can't say
enough positive things about John Cena. I know, I give

(56:20):
him a lot of crap, like, hey, man, I'm still
gonna be honest. He was dirty for what he did
to the Nexus at SummerSlam. He was John, you know
you're dirty for that, being honest, but still my guy,
I still think a year ago, but hey, got to
call spade a spade, but it was. It was awesome
just working with him, and especially you know from being
in the business, you know, so young, Like, man, I'm

(56:43):
so greed and here I am in the main event
with John Cena, like and then I'm so nervous. But
he put me at ease because he literally called the
entire match and that was nerve wracking to me because
I'm like, no, I don't know if he understands, like
I'm so green like, if you don't tell me what
to do, I'm gonna stand here and just wait, like

(57:04):
what should I do next? But like he he covered it.
And then once you know, I worked with him and
I realized, oh he's good, He's really good. I could
trust him. It was cool. But yeah, like his his
retirement tour, I'm glad he's going out like this because
he is kind of like Lebron in a way. Is Yeah,
he's he's definitely on the Mount Rushmore and you know it's, uh,

(57:27):
it's too bad to see him go, but you know,
he had a heck of a career and you know,
wish him the best.

Speaker 1 (57:32):
Outside of Barrett being there, it's kind of a bamba
wena get some sort of like final like conclusion or
like a piece piece moment between the Nexus and John
Cena during his last year. That would have been because
it was one of the biggest angles for his career
during that time, Like it was once in the product
was still we kept seeing him facing the same people
and being them and then here came the threat and
there wasn't one guy. It was like six seven of you.

Speaker 2 (57:54):
I was like, you know, right, I feel like they
should have they should have done something with it. I
feel like we should have come back and beatn him
down or something, and I think it would be like
helped him. Yeah, but like and hey man, everybody's heard
the story. It gives Sena a chance to write that
wrong about Summer Slam. I think fans will pop for that.

Speaker 1 (58:14):
But for those that haven't heard, it's just you guys
were supposed to go over. Christian, Chris, Jericho and Edge
were pushing for you guys to go over. Sina thought
it was a bad idea, ended up, they went over
at the end of it all. That's that's basically what happened.

Speaker 2 (58:30):
Basically basically, yeah.

Speaker 1 (58:32):
You know the the sparks notes of it all. But
but yeah, and looking back at it, people sometimes like
the next probably should have went over.

Speaker 2 (58:41):
We absolutely went over. Why would you invest this much
time and effort into us where we're the hottest thing going,
We're so hot, we get the main event at SummerSlam.
Why would you then take all the steam out of
us like that? Yeah? Makes no sense. And then because
they said they wanted they wanted a SummerSlam to end
on a happy note, I don't know that that that's

(59:05):
not it.

Speaker 1 (59:05):
Not the eighties, it's not the eighties anymore. Yeah, we've
established that people like the anti.

Speaker 2 (59:10):
Hero yeah right, yeah, anyway.

Speaker 1 (59:14):
Yeah, that would have probably been talked about in the documentary.

Speaker 2 (59:16):
That was never released, but uh, I think we did
talk about.

Speaker 1 (59:20):
It, yeah, and then they never released it.

Speaker 2 (59:23):
Which is it's finished, it was finalized.

Speaker 1 (59:26):
Who knows, you know nowadays with the w W vault
and all this other stuff, maybe it'll pop up on YouTube,
maybe it'll come out somewhere. I think that's all the possibility.
Let me, do you even seem a bond on the
fact that you guys are both body physique guys because
he's a body guy too.

Speaker 2 (59:41):
Yeah, oh yeah yeah. And then like that's what was cool.
It's like we used to we used to train together, ok, yeah,
you know at his gym and then like on the road,
because that's the thing is I was serious right back,
was serious. We were always going to be at the
gym and sena also, and so like you know, he
would tell me sometimes, hey, in this town, make sure
you check out this gym or whatnot, and so yeah,

(01:00:02):
we'd always see each other in there. We'd hit legs
together sometimes. Yeah, No, we we definitely definitely bonded over that.

Speaker 1 (01:00:09):
So let's wrap this up with the last few couple
of questions there. First things first, after all that, you
did a lot of the pre show stuff, some commentary stuff.
How'd you enjoy that? Is that something you'd be interested
in doing again? Would you like to be brought in
on a time to time basis if it you know,
you can maybe play that loyal role again? Like what
is what interests you in? How'd you enjoy all of that?

Speaker 2 (01:00:32):
Yeah, No, I did enjoy it. It wasn't something that
I ever anticipated. And then it was a vinced thing,
like he saw me in that role and asked that
if I would try it because he said he thought
I'd be great at it. So I was like, all right.
So we did the raw pre show with Corey Graves
in Connecticut, and man, we had a blast. I had
a shout out to Corey Graves. I had a great

(01:00:52):
time working with him. Like we didn't really know each
other much before this, but we just had instant chemistry,
Like we just got along and know, we would give
each other crap back and forth and just you know,
play along with it and we just literally just had fun.
We assumed nobody was watching the show. But one person was,
and that was Vince. Like the producers were telling us,
so I know this is like Vince's favorite show. He

(01:01:13):
watches this every week and like he'll belly laugh. I'm
like really. So then, like sure enough, they weren't messing around,
because then I eventually got a call that they were
going to move me to smack down as a commentator.
That was completely out of left field. I'm like, what,
But all right, I'll try it. And commentary, I'm telling

(01:01:34):
you right now, commentary is a lot harder than people think.
Because if you think I'm up there just saying whatever
I want, you're wrong. Like, just give a comment you
are very, very rob You get somebody in your ear
and you're telling the story. And so what was a
disconnect was I was always a heel, but then they
needed me to be a babyface commentator. So I've always
been putting down johnsena beating him up. Now all of

(01:01:56):
a sudden, I'm glazing at him every chance. So like
people couldn't take me serious. I couldn't take me serious.
But it was it's fun, it's nerve wracking, and it's
it's very challenging. That's why there's a lot of turnover
in that. People don't usually last long a commentary, but
if you're good at it, you'll do it for a
long time. Michael Cole is amazing yet quite great. Yeah,

(01:02:16):
is great at it. But yeah, no, I would come
back and do that. I have a lot of fun
doing that actually, And you said when I ever come
back and be the lawyer character from time to time, absolutely,
that actually could be really fun.

Speaker 1 (01:02:31):
That could be like every once in a while. So
I'm like, oh, you could be the lawyer for Chelsea
Green's cabinet, Like anything would be funny. Like there's so
many things you could do, Like there's always in the
world of restling, just like in the world of business
and life, there's always need.

Speaker 2 (01:02:46):
For a lawyer.

Speaker 1 (01:02:47):
Okay, let me tell you, you know, I never know
when you got a double check to make sure you're
not gonnat in trouble for something. Let's talk about this
YouTube channel, because you brought that law world into the
YouTube channel. You brought being able to bring your world
of law into the world of rusting in terms of
like connecting the two and as we do live in

(01:03:08):
an era where like when I was a kid, there
was very few now everybody's a news site. Everybody's breaking
the news and trying to tell you what the deal
is and talking about people's contracts and talking about this
and talking about that. Recently the stuff happened, andraw day
I saw your video on I was like, oh, okay,
I'm probably gonna take his word for it because he's
an actual lawyer. Then these people that are you know,

(01:03:32):
some are actual journalists, some are made self made journalists,
and they're trying to tell me what's going on here.
What was a concept bind the YouTube channel? It was
that a big part of it.

Speaker 2 (01:03:43):
So that's exactly how I got here, to be honest,
This is another thing that was organic. I'm like you,
I'm just watching YouTube and getting my news and all
this stuff. But like, I'll tell you what it was.
It was this Rashid Jackson incident, and it was hearing
people talk about it both sides. You didn't really know
what they were talking about, because you know, I would
hear from the lawyer channels and the legal analysis, but

(01:04:06):
they don't understand professional wrestling culture. They don't know what
a receipt is, they don't know what selling is. So
their whole take was off because they didn't know what
they were talking about. Yeah, and then I have the
boys talking about this, but they they don't have any
idea about the legal ramifications. So finally I had enough
and I was like, I feel like I need to

(01:04:26):
make a video just to explain this, Like I'm the
perfect person who lives in both worlds. So I made
a video and man, it really took off, like over
one hundred thousand views, and people were asking me to
do more. Hey, all right, all right, let me do
another one. So, you know, I started following up with
it and the feedback was great, and then you know,
people were asking me, you should cover other things. You

(01:04:48):
should cover this, you should cover that, and so it's like,
all right, let me make another video. It's kind of
enjoying it. It just grew from that organically, and then
the Sondrade situation came out, and again I'm the perfect
person for this, Like I realized I have my own
niche here where you know, I'm not competing with anybody.
There is nobody in my lane, and there will probably

(01:05:09):
never ever be anybody in my lane because I'm pretty
sure there's not gonna be another Harvard educated lawyer in
professional wrestling, like I'm the one and only so anyway,
that's how it just came. And it's a really cool
intersection because there's so many things that I can cover,
so many things I've wanted to cover for the longest,

(01:05:31):
and you know, just even on the WW contract, I
just did a video about that recently. Yeah, oh that's
that's something I want to talk about forever, just being
a lawyer.

Speaker 1 (01:05:40):
Because hey, you know, like it's honestly, like even for
some of those older founds, it goud be cool to see, Hey,
let's see David o'tanga explain exactly what was happening in
this uh hull Cogan w CW contract that nobody else
could probably explain to us, right, Like it's it's like
what is creative? What? What? What is creative? Can how
does this actually work? Like you know, there's and now

(01:06:05):
when I think if you'm like, I can't wait till
he drops the video on this because I think because
everyone will throw the word out there, she has creative control,
this person's created. What does that really entail? Does that
work on the independence too, or is it just on
this show or like it's just there's a lot of
stuff out there thinking covering. I think it's cool to
actually have someone that has the actual education and degree
to tell us these things. Then he says, she said,

(01:06:28):
this is what I heard, this is what I know,
But how do you know for sure, like what would
really happen in the court a lot if this is
gonna taken to that point. So I think it's really cool.
I think everyone should subscribe and check it out. Uh
do when when did you know that the wrestling wrestling
part of your career was wrapped up and that was done?

(01:06:50):
And how did you feel about it?

Speaker 2 (01:06:53):
I'll tell you when I get to that point. All right,
all right, I'm not retired. I just haven't wrestled in
a long time. It came to the point where Vince
really wanted me to do more commentary, because up until
then there was talks of, you know, me trying to
get back in the ring and just put the right

(01:07:13):
storyline and whatnot. But he really liked what I was doing,
and it was it was more one of these things.
He wanted to groove me for that, and so I
understood that for right now or for the time being,
Vince wants me talking and there's more longevity in that However,
I still like to get in the ring. So then
I kind of was okay with that in that. If

(01:07:35):
I'm being honest, hey, I accomplished most everything I wanted
to do, you know already, To be honest with you,
I accomplished most everything I wanted to do in my
life by the time I was like thirty two, and
so everything is amazing is gravy, thank you. Everything else
is gravy to me. And so what I love to
get in the ring again? Sure, when I love a

(01:07:55):
singles championship something else to hang up behind me, of course,
But am I good if I don't get it? Yeah,
I mean I've already got three of them hanging back
there like I've I feel like I've won it life already.
I beat the game. I'm just on side missions now
having fun, to be honest.

Speaker 1 (01:08:12):
But not being all said, you're ready to lace up
again if you got the opportunity you were.

Speaker 2 (01:08:17):
Asked to, if it if it was the right situation.
That see, that's that's the thing is right now, I
have the power because I'm content. I'm good.

Speaker 1 (01:08:29):
I was going to say that there's the power there
when you know you're okay, Like it's not.

Speaker 2 (01:08:35):
Dream for it, right, It's not like people haven't asked
me to, But like, I'm not going to come back
for something that doesn't make any sense because like I'd
want to add to the legacy of David O'tunga in
my character. So if it was something that I felt
added to that it was worthwhile, absolutely I jump at
the chance. But if it's not that and it's not
on the level I want or you know, not the

(01:08:55):
right story I feel not fit for me, I'm not
going to do it because I don't have to.

Speaker 1 (01:09:00):
No, that's fair. That's fair. Is there one match that
you really like cherished the most? One match? Like I
usually put it this way, if you could show ten
year old David o'tanga one of your matches, what match
would you show him?

Speaker 2 (01:09:14):
You know what?

Speaker 1 (01:09:15):
It was?

Speaker 2 (01:09:15):
One on It was a couple of them actually, but
a singles match on Raw against John Cena main event,
because I was able to do that a couple of times.
Some of them would do dark mat events. But you know,
somewhere on TV and just the fact that I'm wrestling
the top guy and you know, one of the goats
who's on the Mount Rushmore, and you know, I got

(01:09:36):
to go one on one with him, you know when
he was at his best and in his prime, and
I'm at my best and you know more than held
my own and especially you know, as young as I
was and as inexperience as I was. But still like
that to me, obviously I didn't win, but I didn't
need to. But actually, let me rephrase that I did win.

(01:09:57):
I did win, just like being in the match and
be in the heel that you know, got to be
in there and share the ring with John Cena. So yeah,
that would be it.

Speaker 1 (01:10:04):
Some are my favorite matches of my favorite wrestlers are
the ones they didn't win. So it says a lot.
And when both guys can walk out of a match
and you're like, well, nough, I like both of them
now even though the yeah, I even like the guy
that lost, Like that was that was really cool. That's
that's the best stuff, right, That's that's the nuances of
wrestling that makes it good when it's good. Uh, if

(01:10:25):
I can ask you, because like if you were like
I'm going to wrap this up and win over an hour,
I was not expecting to do. That's why I apologize.
But if you if you were to write a list
of the things that because I only know this now
because you told me your story at the beginning. Here,
if you were to write a list of the things
that you want to do as a kid, and you're
able to check them off, now, you did a lot
of them and the action star you were acting, You wrestled.

(01:10:47):
You didn't want to be a lawyer, but your dad did,
so you vicariously did what he wanted to do too,
and you can check that off. What advice would you
give for someone that's aspirationable something trying to do something,
because like we've seen that you've done all this stuff.
But it's easy to tell the story and not really
focusing like it was really hard doing it. It's nothing
I was really easy. I would like there's I always say,
like people see the end result and they see that

(01:11:08):
and like that's what I want, Like I want to
be the Rock. He's a big movie star. But nobody
wants to talk about the Rock two thousand and three
to twenty twelve, when he wasn't making the greatest movies
and he was struggling in Hollywood to get that to
that point, no one ever talks about that. He's just
a big movie star. What advice would you give to
people that are aspirational to achieve goals and dreams like
that that might only be seeing the end half.

Speaker 2 (01:11:30):
I'm gonna I'm gonna flip it and use You know,
your question is that that's exactly it, because people do
not see the amount of work it takes for all
of this, especially just just acting. Like for me, you
have no idea how many auditions I've been on. I
still go on. I had one two days ago just
to get a role. And then people say, oh, he's

(01:11:53):
an overnight success. Oh you know he did this, or
you know he's in everything. No, I'm not. There's and
there's so many things I was so close to. We
were talking about Marvel. There was a Marvel character. It
was down to me and one other guy. Wow, and
I lost it.

Speaker 1 (01:12:08):
Feel like nobody hears that part, that part you know.

Speaker 2 (01:12:12):
No, yeah, nobody hears about that. You're not supposed to
talk about it. You know. I was devastating. I was
getting ready to go on the air and commentate SmackDown
when I got the news that I didn't get it.
This was like twenty minutes before, Like I'm going through
one of the biggest disappointments in my life. But I
have to be professional and go out and call SmackDown
and still you know, be be present and all that.
But my main advice would just be it's it's a

(01:12:36):
lot of work, it really is, but if you stick
with it and you persevere, it will be worth it.
Because that's the thing is, it's it's all like a test.
It's testing you to see how bad you really want it.
Do you want it as bad as you say you do,
And if you do, you'll find a way. That's always
been the thing with me is like that's how I
know how if I really want to achieve something or not.
If I am willing to put in the work for it,

(01:12:59):
all right, it's worth it for me. If it's something
that I'd like to do that, but I'm not gonna
do all that to get to it, then yeah, my
heart signed it enough. So just just go with things
that you feel passionate about and that putting work in
doesn't feel like work.

Speaker 1 (01:13:15):
Yeah, and not everything's a home run, you know, to
put in a different perspective, you're gonna get some roadblocks
and it hit a lot of and I think that's
the part people don't see what I was like, yo,
Like like even the people you look at and like
they're so successful and they're so great, like they've been rejected.
They've got to grow a thick skin. They've they've been played,
you know, Like.

Speaker 2 (01:13:37):
The amount of rejection in this business is wild. Like
that's the thing you have to get over to the
point where I say, like this, you have to be delusional.
You have to be delusional, Like I'm delusional in the
sense that I feel like everything I do is great.
Every audition I turn in, I should get that role.
But I have to be delusional like that. And when
I don't get it, or if I don't get it,

(01:13:59):
like man, they're crazy, and I still think my audition
was the best, Like I don't know what else to
tell you, and then you know what the very next
audition I get. Guess what my mindset is, Oh, I'm
getting this for sure.

Speaker 1 (01:14:09):
Hey, hey this, but you have to I heard Jeff
Jarre talk do that delusion and being a delusional optimist, like.

Speaker 2 (01:14:16):
Just optimistically delusion.

Speaker 1 (01:14:19):
Just going into things being like no, I got this,
Like even though you might have been rejected like six times,
like no, this time' is good. I know what I'm
doing now.

Speaker 2 (01:14:25):
I learned from the last let me tell you the
graduate level of that. But I've just started to get
to with myself. Is after being delusional like that, delusionally
confident for so long, it starts becoming real. Other people
start believing in my delusion and it doesn't become delusion anymore,
becomes my reality. Like things that I say about myself,
I'm going to be this, I'm going to be that.

(01:14:46):
They don't know, but I'm really this now, especially like
this year in my life too, I feel like people
are realizing, no, he really is that.

Speaker 1 (01:14:53):
He's that is like that isn't That's an art in
itself that I've learned in the long In the long
run two is like if nobody and I used to
say at the beginning, but I think I used to
say it because it was kind of like a good
cliche thing to say, but then they're more done stuff.
It's the quot It's true, like nobody is going to
believe in you if you do not believe in yourself.

(01:15:14):
And I don't know what you have to do to
make yourself believe in yourself, but like you need to
delusionally believe in yourself and eventually the people around you
be like he must like there must be something going
on there, like he knows this person, he's done that,
or this happened for them. Like so we all start
at Zero's pretty much the point. But you got to

(01:15:34):
believe in yourself enough to take you to one hundred.
And I think that's good advice. And last, but at least,
I ask everybody this before I wrap it up, and
I think it's a I'm excited to hear your answer,
let it mear next. It's really easy to be like, yes,
yes I have. But do you feel like you've made
your younger self proud at this point? Yes?

Speaker 2 (01:16:00):
Absolutely, absolutely, I know that. That's what I'm saying is like,
by the time I was thirty two, I reached every
goal my younger self wanted, I mean down to even
just looking the way I wanted to look. I surpassed
that I was on the cover of Muscle and Fitness.
To me, that is that is I say that because
that's such a huge a compliment or accomplishment for me personally.

(01:16:21):
Is the little kid that I was growing up in
being chubby, overweight, but looking at these physiques on these magazines,
when I was in the grocery store with my mom
waiting while she checked out and dreaming about looking like
Arnold Schwartzeninger, or dreaming about being on the cover of
that magazine and having other little kids stand in my
shoes and look at me. And then now to achieve that, Like,

(01:16:43):
that's something that personally, just for me, will always be
one of my proudest accomplishments for myself because also I
know the incredible amount of work it took to achieve that,
and you know, and that's something that like I challenge
myself with every day is still working out and working
on my physique, and it's tough to maintain that level

(01:17:03):
of physique and dedication when there's no particular goal you're chasing. Like,
I'm just challenging myself. I don't have to be on
TV with my shirt off and in wrestling trunks. I
don't have to do that. But I'm doing this for
me and I'm happy, Like I feel like I'm well.
I don't feel like I know my physique is better
now than it was when I was wrestling.

Speaker 1 (01:17:25):
Yeah, that's crazy, really just the intelligent jacked Forrest Gump.
I mean, like muscle and Fitness w w E Marvel
Tyler Perry. I think I heard criminal minds before, soap operas,
reality shows like lawyers, Yeah, power you look at look

(01:17:46):
at this right just everywhere. No, this is really cool
to do. I really appreciate your time. It was really
it was. It was fun talking to like when I
when I got when I was asking do you want
an interview date with I'm like, hell yeah, I'm like,
I don't know, like I have fun talking to people
that I'm like, I never thought i'd talk to you,
Like there's some people like I asked, I'm like no,
but like this would be fun because like I was
a fan. I was there for the whole Nextus thing.

(01:18:09):
I enjoyed the lawyer gimmick and it's cool to see that.
You're then like when I'm doing re I'm like, oh,
he's still allowed to do all these things. This is crazy,
Like people need to know about this. So thank you
for your time. I appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (01:18:22):
You got it. Thank you man. I really appreciate this too.
That's fun.

Speaker 1 (01:18:26):
Everybody can make sure you guys go follow David o'tanga.
I'll put his socials below. Follow his YouTube channel. Keep
up be educated, get the get the legal advice of
what's going on in the world of wrestling and beyond,
and who knows, maybe like go spread into other things too.
Maybe people want to know how something fell apart in
the world of Hollywood, and Tongue can give us the

(01:18:46):
advice of let me tell you what really happened on
this movie set in his contract and why he's not
allowed to be this person anymore in this role. But
I'm telling you keep doing the thing. I will see
you all next time. Thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:19:00):
Time to say good night. We sincerely appreciate your patronage
and hope we've succeeded in bringing you an enjoyable evening
of entertainment. Please drive home carefully and come back again soon.
Good Night,

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180. David Otunga - Casual Conversations

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