Episode 210 - Lunatic: Luna Vachon Story w/ Kate Kroll - TWC Show

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Ladies and gentlemen, Ladies and gentlemen, Boys and girls. It's
a boy the resting Classic, and we're here for another
episode of the TWC Show. I got a very special
guest for this week's episode, none other than someone I've
actually no seen a lot, been a lot of indie

(00:21):
shows out here in Vancouver. Calamity Kate, Kate Croll. How
are you doing today?

Speaker 2 (00:25):
Hey, I'm well, Thanks for having me.

Speaker 1 (00:27):
I'm excited to have you because I watched this documentary
and I thoroughly enjoyed it. I have seen other Lunava
Sean stuff, but I feel like you did a great
job with this documentary. Before we get into it, though,
I want to ask you, not ask you, let people
know kind of your background, as you know you produces
for me, the director of this film, your background in

(00:48):
the film industry because like myself, I know you as
I've seen you as a character on the independent shows
doing the stuff you do there. But like to know
about your film background before we get into the documentary.
Let un't know a bit about that.

Speaker 2 (01:02):
Yeah, so I I went to film school. I won't
tell you when I graduated because it was last year,
of course, but yeah, I went to film school and
I moved to Vancouver and I've been working in the
film industry ever since. And I you know, at one point,

(01:26):
I quit my job and just started making a documentary
with a friend of mine named Melissa, and we made
this documentary called No Fun City about like illegal underground
music venues in Vancouver and like what we called the
War on Fun and artists trying to find spaces to

(01:50):
create and musicians trying to you know, like find crazy
venues to play in because there just weren't any venues
in town. And that documentary had some success, and then,
you know, I've been working in documentary and scripted production

(02:10):
for a little while now. And it's interesting because I
started doing burlesque as a way to get away from
my computer. But it was like theater and creativity and
story and character, which really went hand in hand with
my filmmaking. And then wrestling was an extension of that.

(02:33):
I mean, wrestling is theater, character's costume storytelling as well,
so it's like it's like but it's live.

Speaker 1 (02:42):
So yeah, what I'm getting is you're a very creative
person and you like the art of telling a story.
I do. Yes, documentary is burlesque or wrestling. You love
the idea of being able to create characters and tell
the story or explain a story because I first will
always be people know me that I've been following from
will always call it wrestling like the greatest form of

(03:04):
like art and athleticism combined, because it combines that you
have to be super athletic to an extent, and it's
also what art like it is theater it is. It
is like you're more invested in the athleticism if you're
invested in the story, So you're almost kind of a
storyteller at heart.

Speaker 2 (03:18):
You are, And I think a lot of people don't know,
they don't realize that, like the people who look down
their nose at wrestling, because we know those people are
out there that wrestling, And I'm like, if only you knew,
Like this is art.

Speaker 1 (03:35):
It is.

Speaker 2 (03:36):
It's athletic art.

Speaker 1 (03:38):
It really is, and I think like it allows you
to like do everything that you enjoy. I feel like,
what that first documentary about the club scene and whatnot?
When did you realize that, Like was that like was
that your initial thing that you want to create a
documentary or what were you looking to write more scripts
from like movies.

Speaker 2 (03:59):
I know I wanted because I did a documentary actually
in film school, like a feature like documentary that was
really well received. And then I was like I always
knew I wanted to work in documentary. I love like
I just love watching people. Yeah, like I love this

(04:21):
like psychology behind you know, human behavior. So yeah, and
I I was a story producer on two seasons of
a reality dating series called Farming for Love.

Speaker 1 (04:37):
Okay, I do remember that. That was what I remember
seeing the commercials on the Shawn Demand Okay, and it
was like the like the farmers finding love basically like yeah,
the rural agricultural areas and there it was like a
dating thing, matchmaking thing for people in those areas.

Speaker 2 (04:55):
Yeah, it was like The Bachelor, but on farms.

Speaker 1 (04:58):
Yeah. Yeah, I don't. I can't sit here and tell
you I specifically ever watched it, but I definitely remember
seeing the commercial all the time. Did any last two seasons?

Speaker 2 (05:08):
Two seasons? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (05:10):
Okay, so you were a part of that, that's cool.

Speaker 2 (05:12):
Yeah mm hmm yeah yeah so yeah, so I mean,
and then that's kind of how my husband and at
Cobra Kai and I started producing wrestling shows because I
have a producing like a film producing background, So I
don't know, it just felt like natural to continue producing

(05:32):
but in the wrestling space.

Speaker 1 (05:34):
But even with that, the Farmers for Love Looking for
Love thing, it's like you're still doing it's a reality
TV based right, so you're still dealing with real people,
the real stories, and then maybe exaggerating it a bit
for like the television of it all. But like that
kind of goes hand in hand with wrestling and with
you being a documentarian at this point, if that is
even a word a documentarian, I think it is.

Speaker 2 (05:57):
Okay, I not, well, then you just made it up
because I just.

Speaker 1 (06:01):
Sat that out there to sounded right, But I'm not
a lot of I think that is a documentary. Make documentaries, okay,
but it's it's really it all kind of goes hot
and on. I love hearing people's stories a little bit
like that. Hence why documentaries are great because you could
pinpoint when things kind of get tied together. Uh. Do

(06:22):
you have any favorite documentaries that you watch that kind
of you're like, oh, I really enjoyed this that, like
I want to make documentaries. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (06:30):
Yeah, there's a documentary called Waltz with Bashir that I
think was either nominated or won in Oscar god in
like twenty two thousand and six or seven, something like that,
and that was an It was animated, but it was

(06:52):
all like it's all over top of interviews with soldiers
Israeli soldiers who fought in this war, and I think
Lebanon and like this main character, he couldn't he had
no memories from from the war, so he interviewed his

(07:15):
what I don't want to call them colleagues, is like
the soldiers that he was with, and like unraveled the
story through those interviews, and I thought that was so beautiful,
and that inspired a short documentary that I did called
Rang Wong, which was about Tibet and self immolation, so
that that documentary is one of my tops. And then

(07:38):
another tops of mine is called My Brother's Keeper, which
I haven't seen it in a really long time, but
it's a really like messed up documentary following these brothers
and one brother is accused of murdering the other brother
and they're just like these weird brothers living in the

(08:00):
ad at of nowhere, and it's so weird. It's like
it's like Veritay style. So it's just really following around
these brothers like in their real daily life. Oh, like
tops is Grey Gardens, which is another really great, very
Tay style documentary. Do you have you heard of Grey Gardens? No?

Speaker 1 (08:21):
I haven't heard of any of these, and I want
to watch them all. I'm like like this, Like I've
watched a lot of documents on whether it's like I've
always liked watching like musician documentaries and artists that like
become something because it's I always find that inspiring. But
like also all the I love all the true crime stuff,
so the Keepers thing is looking very interesting to me.
I love watching a good uh not a good but

(08:42):
a good murder documentary or a serial killer documentary and
learning about these stories and stuff. But Brothers Keepers the
one that's joking about the most. And I've been sitting
here this entire time trying of wonder, trying to remember
the word for like the like when you're in the
army with somebody, what do you call them? What do
you like? Tom ra comrade is one word? Like, but

(09:02):
I was saying, like, you know, talking about their comrades
sounds like, yeah, there is a word for like those
that served with them. What would they be they're fellow vets.
Fellow Yeah, something like that is a word and it's
gonna bother me and I'm gonna remember it after this
and the I'm gonna be really annoyed. But uh, you
know what else is really funny? This is holy side.

(09:22):
I was like, I was reading like a thing about
gen Z kids and they're like, what do you think
is old now like to you and stuff, and like, oh,
someone born in the nineteen hundreds. And I'm like wow,
because you said something like the twenty something on like
the nineteen hundreds, like that is actually correct, Like I'm
born in the nineteen hundreds. I guess that's a weird

(09:45):
way to say it. So you've been just multiple documentaries
before this lunar documentary. Just mentioned another one. So how
many in total have you done before this lunar documentary? Well,
I went to school, you did the nightclub one. You
didn't want to that, you just mentioned it else. That's three.

Speaker 2 (10:01):
Yeah, and then yeah, I had like a short documentary
that got Canda Council for the Arts funding, and then
I did a couple short documentaries for Knowledge Network. I
just directed an episode of a travel series called Postcards
from and this episode takes place in Halifax. It's for

(10:25):
Ami Network and then I've you know, Line produced and
Field produced some documentaries and some series, like one in particular.
It's actually really cool documentary on Crave and Netflix called
Mafia Most Wanted.

Speaker 1 (10:47):
Okay, I've seen this, suggested to me. I haven't watched it.

Speaker 2 (10:50):
Watch it. It's so good. It's about the Collabrian the
en Drink and Drink geta Mafia, which is like from
Collabria in the south of Italy and like has a
huge presence in Toronto and Montreal. Yeah, okay, I actually
went to Italy and we filmed there and we filmed

(11:15):
like in the village where that mafia started and it's
like the village is still full of people from the
family and we there with a camera and the camera
guy was like freaking out. Yeah. Directed by a very
talented director named Trisha Dolman.

Speaker 1 (11:34):
That's a little like, you know, you wonder what you're
allowed to know, what you're not allowed to know, if
you're you know, breaking any barriers. I can see that
being very That was fine. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (11:45):
I shot a documentary in India that I directed in
India Nepal and we filmed in the burning gats and
like that was weird because I was like, in the moment,
I'm like we're filming people, like literal bodies being burnt,
but I'm so focused on like the shot, and I'm like,

(12:07):
you have a director's hat. And then afterwards I was like, wow,
like what did we just do? You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (12:15):
No, it is it's crazy. It's kind of an out
of body experience. And then you kind of get the
realization when you get to sit down and relax and
like wait, because it happens all the time. You lose
yourself into something and then once you're after the fact,
you're like, oh, yeah, wasn't it.

Speaker 2 (12:28):
Yeah yeah that was that really kind of messed me
up for a little while.

Speaker 1 (12:34):
It is crazy that you've picked this career path. You
went to film school, you wanted to be a filmmaker.
You're doing these documentaries, and it's cool that it coincides
with you being able to travel and kind of see
the world a bit, but you're working to do it,
you know, like that is kind of it is. It
is kind of it's kind of a cool, little like
cherry on top of the whole situation that's to go.

(12:54):
I get to go to Italy. I could go to India,
but like there's a reason we're going, and there's some
work to be done. You know.

Speaker 2 (13:00):
Yeah, it's good, but I'd rather just be on vacation.

Speaker 1 (13:03):
That's fair. I'm in a moon now, like everywhere I
go with like, I would rather just go for work. Okay,
I'll be ready to sit on a beach when I'm
like in my forties. Maybe I don't know. I'm not
sure yet. And also I'm saying when I don't have
a kid, you're probably looking more for a vacation when
you're in that situation. That beings said, though, what made

(13:25):
you so the lunatic? The Luna Vashon story? Obviously, I
know you have ties interesting and your part of it,
but when was the decision made, like, hey, we want
to do a story on Luna, like Lunava Shan somewhere.
Why Luna? Why do you want to tell her a story?
What made you guys intrigue with us? Who'd you partner
up with the whole she bang? Luna Vashon? Why?

Speaker 2 (13:43):
This is kind of a funny story. So I went
and saw this documentary at the Whistler Film Festival. The
documentary is called Another Nail in the Coffin. It's the
Vampiro documentary.

Speaker 1 (13:55):
Have you said I've watched it? I did watch it actually.

Speaker 2 (13:57):
Yeah, really good by a film named Michael Pashed, and
so obviously I was like, wrestling documentary, I have to go.
So I went. And then I was talking to Michael
afterwards and like asking him questions. And then because he
was living he said he met Vampiro, he got to
know Vampiro ages ago because he was living in Mexico City.

(14:20):
And I said, oh, my husband actually trained Luca in
Mexico City. And he's like, what's your husband's name? And
I told him Cobra Kai and he's like, he was
my roommate twenty years ago. The city. I was like
what it was still wild. And Michael owns a company
called Raven Banner Entertainment and they're a distributor, a film

(14:44):
distributor in Canada. So I was like okay, and he
and Michael's really into wrestling. Yeah, Michael, like, I love
your film, but I want to see a women's wrestling documentary,
Like I want to see a documentary about a woman.
And he's like, pitched me some thing. So I said Okay,
I'm going to pitch you something, and so I thought

(15:04):
about it and I was like, there's so many great
Like I was like, okay, first of all, she has
to be a Canadian, yeah, which.

Speaker 1 (15:14):
Was a shock to me. I didn't realize that Luna
was Canadian until I watched the documentary, right. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (15:20):
I was like, hey, she's got to be a Canadian.
And I'm like, there's so many great Canadians. There's Tristratus,
there's kick Him, Oh my god, Gail Kim, there's a
lot Lucisto, like, there's so many great women out there.
And but but then I remembered meeting Gang Girl ages ago,

(15:44):
like when I first started wrestling, and then he goes, hey,
he you know, he was married to Luna for sean,
you know. And I thought like she just like came
into my head and I'm like, okay, I'm gonna do
a bit more research on Luna. And then I just realized, like,
whoa like Luna. Luna has so many layers. So first

(16:06):
of all, she has the Canadian connection. She comes from
a Kibbek while wrestling dynasty, and like her aunt Vivian,
was a wrestler in the seventies, so we have like
that connection to the past. We have the whole like
nineties two thousands, well eighties, nineties two thousands era with Luna,

(16:27):
and then we have her legacy, which we can see
now in twenty twenty five. So her story kind of
takes us, like, I mean, her story even goes, you know,
to the Mulah and like those days, so it really
takes us through a long span of the evolution of
women's wrestling. And then but not just that, she has

(16:51):
so many layers. So she you know, she was diagnosed bipolar,
she suffered from addiction, and like she had mental health issues.
She was a mom, which a lot of people didn't know,
so there's that aspect. And then the way she died
was really really tragic, and I thought, you know what

(17:15):
she's It's like, she's got a story that everyone can
relate to. Even if you don't know anything about wrestling,
chances are you've been somehow impacted in your life by
mental health and addiction or like even just being a
woman struggling to make it in an industry that maybe

(17:35):
isn't built for women. So yeah, it was just like
and then the first thing I did was called up
Gangrel and I was like, Hey, I want to do
this documentary. And this was twenty nineteen, so really nothing
had been done on Luna at that point, because Dark
Side of the Ring hadn't even been done yet or

(17:56):
that her episode. Yeah, I reached out to Gngrel and
I was like, I want to do this doc and
he was like yes, like she needs to have her
story told, she deserves it. And then like everyone who
I approached was like, yes, I'm in. What do you
mean I'm in? And it just kind of came together.

(18:16):
And because everyone loves Luna.

Speaker 1 (18:19):
So you started doing this in twenty nineteen, like the
initial seeds will Plant in twenty nineteen, it's now coming
out in twenty twenty five, which answers a lot of
questions about having you know, mad Dog, Vashan and there,
and many people that aren't with us anymore get involved
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(18:42):
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(19:03):
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(19:25):
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(19:47):
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(20:10):
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(20:30):
that you like. It's been it's been five years in
the making, and there's there's there's so much stuff that
you were able to get that you wouldn't be able
to get anymore. And I do think Luna was a
great option because it does really let you talk about
women's the history of women in wrestling, going further back
than just focusing on like if you did a Trish
or Gail Kim, it's really nineties two thousands, like you

(20:52):
could still touch on the old school wrestling, but they
weren't really a part of it. Like there's probably not
gonna be stories of Trish or Gail Kim working under
Mulah or any of that type of stuff that you
were able to tell. What did you find most fascinating
about creating this documentary? What is something with you that
you learned that you were like, Wow, that's that's new
information for even me. That's you know, been doing the

(21:14):
research that's been learning about Luna, like been trying to
figure it out. Like I didn't see that coming.

Speaker 2 (21:18):
I learned so many things. I learned so many things
that people don't even know that I couldn't even like,
first of all, I had a five hour edit and
I had to cut it down to two hours. I
cut out so much and so many things that I'm like,
no one knows about but it is. It was hard,
but I had to do it. But I think the

(21:40):
biggest thing I took away from this documentary was like
I always had it in my head that the women's
evolution was like this, but really from what I noticed,
it was more like this. It was it was yeah, yeah, no,

(22:02):
go ahead.

Speaker 1 (22:03):
No no, because you you know, like you kind of
showcase that too, where like there was that moul era
they started bringing women in, then it kind of disappeared,
then they tried it again. They had you focus a
little bit on a Lundro Blaze and what she did
with Luna in that era, and then it went down again.
It's like it really was like that.

Speaker 2 (22:19):
Yeah, yeah, that surprised me. And just seeing the footage
cut so closely together because we've we compressed like years
and years and years, right, and so seeing like a
Laundra and Luna in the in like ninety.

Speaker 1 (22:38):
Four, Yeah, it was yeah.

Speaker 2 (22:42):
Like their kick ass freaking matches where they're doing like
the most incredible shit and like the men were even
like don't outshine us girls, like come on, and then
and then it was like the added Then it was
the Monday Night Wars where WCW and WWF fighting for
you know, tens of thousands of fans to watch their program,

(23:05):
and like women kind of like were what I like
to call sacrificial lambs on the chopping block.

Speaker 1 (23:12):
They were just sex symbols. They were there for that
that different kind of entertainment, not really yeah wrestling, like
you know, yeah.

Speaker 2 (23:19):
And so to see like that back to back and
to see how, like my god, like how it was
acceptable even like in the late nineties early two thousands
for like you know, to be like commenting on women's
bodies and their boobs and their plastic surgery. And even

(23:41):
though like some of these things were a work, the
fans watching it, you know, are they thinking this is
a work or are they thinking this is like acceptable behavior?
And so just seeing that it made me really sick
because I like I did watch ww F in the
Attitude era, but then like when I actually like got

(24:05):
to know Medusa or yeah Medusa for example, like and
seeing what a kick ass woman she is and how
seriously she took wrestling, and then having to watch like
these WCW bits where they're just like being so derogatory
towards her, it like I cried, I was so upset
about it. Because that's not who she is, and like

(24:28):
that's what they reduced her to and it was bullshit.

Speaker 1 (24:32):
It is it is, and you saw that a lot
in that era, like when you saw like first things first,
right off the bat, like as you're saying, Luna and
Orlandro are two names specifically that you know where ahead
of the time, Like if they lived in twenty fifteen
when the revolution started, they would have been killing it.
They would have been top stars. And you saw Medusa
leave WWF and go to WCW and then she was

(24:53):
with the Mauchman all this stuff, and it's great to
be on TV, to be involved, be featured, but then
it became more about like the way she drives and
being hot and look at my boobs and etcetera, and like,
you know, she's a great wrestler, like we want to
see her wrestle, like you know, And then and then
you guys shared the Luna story, which has been told before,
and if you read books and stuff, you've read about it,

(25:13):
just like how they used her so much to put
over Sable and Sable didn't want to learn how to wrestle.
Sable didn't even want to learn how to bump and
Luna's doing all this stuff to make Sable look good.
And she comes to the back and Vincent and the
and the office were giving flowers to Sable and like
it was Owen that had to come to Luna. I'd
be like, no, like you did this. Like there was
such a different perspective of being a warhorse woman back

(25:36):
in that day compared to like what it is now.
You could hear it even as close as twenty fifteen,
where Sasha and Bailey talk about like they had to
practice their Brooklyn match in private because they didn't want
to show what they're do so the men couldn't go
complain like, hey, they can't do that, They're gonna have China.
It's like it's been a struggle one as Yeah, and
it's changed so much. It's changed so much since twenty fifteen.

(25:58):
The last ten years has changed so much. But there
was a point you and then we're like the guys
just try to tear down the wind, be like they
can't do that, it's gonna outshine our match. We're the
ones that sell tickets, YadA, YadA, YadA. But it was
even worse back then. And it's just crazy to see
how much it's changed, and I think you guys did
a great job of spotlighting, like yo, like it is
sad that Luna never got to win a world title.

(26:21):
I know and we all know who she is, and
I've known and like similar to her son, Like I
remember he talked about in the documentary where he's like
and I said this to my buddy, to him, like
my somewhere. Earliest memories of Luna Vishon was my I
have an older brother who's ten years old than me.
We have a sister in the middle. But I had
a Superintendo. I had that Raw game and she was
the only woman in it, and you could play as

(26:41):
Luna Vashon and that was so cool like this, and
it looked like she could beat up the men. As
a kid, I would believe that she was crazy enough,
Luna take enough that she could work with the men
and yeah, and it was yeah, it's just women's wrestling
has come so far. Were you shocked to hear a
lot about her upbringing and how she got into the business,

(27:03):
because I think with your documentary obviously dark sided to
like to learn that she was actually like I always
was under the assumption that like no, she was like
the Vishan's biological daughter. She was part of that family.
But to learn that, like, no, she was kind of
like adopted and she like she just was so similar
to their characters and the and the craziness, and they're

(27:25):
asked me voice that I just assumed she was like
second generation that way, Like was it interesting for you
to learn that?

Speaker 2 (27:30):
Yeah? That was really interesting. Paul probably told me like
ten times. Yeah, like yes, Paul, and you'll see, as
you saw in the documentary. He's like, have you heard
that story before about her biological dad And I'm like yes,
but also I do need you to tell me on camera,
but yeah, yeah, but no, Yeah, that was interesting and

(27:55):
like the whole you know, thing about her dad committing
Sue side and he because he struggled with bipolar disorder
as well. And then that was because I interviewed ref
Aubrey from A Who's so she's so incredible, and because
I found there were so many parallels between her and
Luna and they both kind of, you know, are pioneers

(28:19):
for women in the industry. But when when ref Aubrey
came out about being diagnosed bipolar, I was like, Okay,
I need to interview you and then to hear that
ref Aubrey's father also committed suicide and it was also bipolar. Yeah,
oh yeah, she talked about it in the documentary, but

(28:40):
we don't go into too much detail about it. But
so like there were so many parallels between those two
and that was, uh, that was interesting.

Speaker 1 (28:51):
Here Yo to board the Rest in Classic. Justin here.
I hope he doesn't enjoyed. The show makes you has like,
comment and subscribe. Check out other shows in the Rest
and Classic YouTube channel, like the t WC Show. I mean,
RV talk everything wrestling, updates, new things, old things. We
just talked about at all. Mount Rushman's got you guys
pretty mad. And if you haven't already, check out Jesse
App and we talk about a little bit more things
about our own personalities outside of wresting. A biker kicked

(29:12):
my car at RV's doesn't take us kiss to Disneyland.
I don't know why. Check out Jesse Appy, check the
TWC show. And also if you haven't already, I'm in
RV's god rain City Toys God. If you need toys,
check out Raincitytoys dot com. Follow my TikTok follow on Instagram,
trying to catch up to me. I don't think he's
going to, but please try to help him, like, get
him there a little bit. You guys want loose toys,
those loose toys. You guys want ultool toys, new toys,
AWWCW legends, all that stuff, CDs, magazines, Rain Citytoys dot Com, Late, comment, subscribe,

(29:38):
engage with the YouTube channel. The more you guys engage
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Classic YouTube channel. Subscribe to comment, keep you in the
thing and joy the rest of the show. I also
found it interesting to learn myself, like and that's like
you would kind of there's a you. You could always

(30:03):
you hear a lot of stories, especially back in the day,
so and I feel like it probably still happens today,
but it's just like it was more like the society
has changed a bunch. But hearing the stories of her
being taken advantage of because she's in the men in
the men's world of wrestling, and there was some name
drops of like people might have sexually assaulted her or whatnot.

(30:24):
I think that was where it was kind of like
one of the moments where I was like, oh, oh,
Like I didn't see it coming, but it didn't surprise me,
knowing as much as they know about wrestling and the
history of wrestling and the stories I've been heard, but
I was just oh, damn, that's it. And I think
someone in the document was like, it's crazy because like
these men from those eras are like idolized, and they

(30:46):
looked at these legends and they did some really horrible things,
and it's like, you, you know, we kind of like
push it to the side unfortunately. But was there more
than what we heard that you lived on the cutting floor?

Speaker 2 (30:59):
Yeah, there was stuff I've been told off camera. And
then like in the film, Craig Cohen, one of her
really close friends, talks about she told him about this
one night and he said, but I don't remember what happened.
And I was like, you don't remember what happened because

(31:20):
he had told me on a phone call. So when
he said I don't remember, I'm like, you don't remember,
and he's like, well, he's like I can't say it.
And people were kind of scared and they didn't want
to speak out and you know, like, I guess we'll
just put it out there right now. I mean, Luna's
son talked about Roddy Piper. Yeah, and that was tough

(31:44):
because we all love Roddy Piper, you know, we all like,
we all like he's a legend. And I was like,
do I include this. I can't prove it, but it's
from what her son is saying, like I believe it.
He's it's very convinced, like he swears by it, and uh,

(32:10):
you know, Roddy's dead, so why would we like put
salt on a wound? And so like initially we actually
bleeped it. Yeah, but then like her Luna's friends were like, no,
you like, unbleep it. This is her story, this is
her voice, and like you're not gonna censor her voice.

(32:31):
And and that's how I felt too. I was like,
this is part of her story, but also this is
part of like a general story because basically a blogger
came to the film screening in Austin, Texas and then
he posted about the Roddy Piper allegation. I read it
and people on Reddit are like going crazy. It's pretty funny. Actually,

(32:55):
It's like what's like spending on Reddit? Like people were
some people were like, good, like we need to talk
about this, and then other mainly men, were saying like,
you know, what's the point. He's dead, now, what's the point.
But the point is that this is a snapshot of
society at that time. Yeah, that like this was sex, drugs,

(33:18):
and rock and roll, and this was the rock and
roll lifestyle. And like I said before, like some of
my idols like David Bowie, Iggy Pop, led Zeppelin, the
Rolling Stones, like it's documented that they've slept with like
thirteen year old girls.

Speaker 1 (33:35):
This is all yeah, And that's what I'm going to say.
Like I'm not saying it's normal. I'm not defending it.
I'm not saying like it's okay because that's just the
way things were. But like there is a part of
it's like that kind of just was the way things
were back then. And this sucks. I'm not saying, I'm
not singing it really sucks. But like someone like does
John Lennon behind me right? And I read John Yeah,

(33:56):
and this man was not And you know, I love
John Lennon, I love the I love to talk to you.
That's a different story. But you know, like and I
also know this man's flaws, and I know he abused
his first wife and he cheated on her, and like
you know what I'm trying to say, but like, and
then we in society sometimes turn a blind eye to
the people that we look up to because we appreciate
the art and we appreciate their music, and we appreciate

(34:18):
the stuff they put out that we are part of
our soundtracks of our life, or we grew up watching
like I I know this now about Roddy Piper, and
I don't know if it really changes my opinion of
Roddy Piper that much, but it also is like fuck.

Speaker 2 (34:34):
Yeah, unfortunately, but it is like how can we tell,
like how can we understand why Luna was how she
was if we can't get the full story? And I
think this is just a building block in her story
that led to you know, and he's.

Speaker 1 (34:53):
Not the and he's not the only one, am I correct?
He's the only one that was named, but he's not
the only one.

Speaker 2 (34:58):
Yeah, there's the there was a lot unfortunately.

Speaker 1 (35:02):
You know, well you don't have to say anybody with
the other bigger names with the out the bigger yea, yeah,
I'm just saying, it's just, it's just it's also a
sign of what they're like. We've moved so far from it,
so it's okay to say it now. And I still
I mean, we just recently heard Becky Lynch on the
podcast being like, you know, like we were warned if
you come to the main roster and there's going to
be this this person there that's gonna want to sleep
with you, and if you sleep with it, If you

(35:24):
sleep with them, you get backlisted, blacklisted. But if you
don't sleep with him and he tries, you also get blacklisted.
That person's and then I think it's it's a thing
that's still going on. You get what I'm trying to say.
And she said on a podcast two weeks ago, and
it sent the internet and uproar of like who's this person?
Who was that?

Speaker 2 (35:41):
Right?

Speaker 1 (35:41):
And then obviously even more recently, not I'm more recent,
but also recently like all the allegations Aboutevis like man
and what was going on in that situation and other allegations.
I mean, in the pandemic you started listening to the
twenty nineteen, In the pandemic, we had the whole speaking
out movement where a lot of wrestlers got canceled and
are no longer in the scene. And you know, I

(36:02):
don't want to give any of those spotlights, but there's
some wrestlers that were really popular on the independence that
aren't anymore, don't even wrestle anymore. Like it's been a
thing in wrestling, so it shouldn't be surprising. But it's
also like to your credit, like how do you tell
the Luna Verssan story without telling that part of it.
She dealt with a lot of mental health stuff. She
dealt with a lot of addiction stuff. What I got

(36:24):
from this documentary is she loved professional wrestling. And I
just interviewed a wrestler where I talked about Like, you know,
from the amount of wrestles I've talked to, a lot
of them will admit it, a lot of them won't,
but their first love was professional wrestling more than their
actual marriage or whatever. Like they loved professional wrestling. And
I felt like that was the case with Luna, Like
she loved in you know, I think those clips of

(36:47):
her talking about it from other shoot interviews, plus other
people saying it, like her loyalty to Vince and she
loved Vince because like she loved wrestling and he gave
her that opportunity to be a mainstream star and stuff
like that. Like there's stuff that you will put up
with because you love something so much in life, and
it seemed to be like that was Luna's thing. But
it's also like there were demons that she probably never

(37:09):
got to address, and a lot of it was stuff
like this, Am I wrong?

Speaker 2 (37:13):
Exact No, that's exactly it. And like her son Ben says,
she gave up her own kids for Vince McMahon. That's
how much she loved him. Yeah, mm hmm.

Speaker 1 (37:24):
And it's just it's insane to think. But yeah, I
know that part was a shocking part to me, but
like I like, and that's why I I don't want
to use it with shocking because like I once again
I heard it, I wasn't shocked. I was more just
like disappointed. I'm like, ah, not him too, Like.

Speaker 2 (37:36):
Well, yeah, I will, I need to clarify because also
there's like trolls out there saying, oh, they're just doing
this as a publicity stunt for money, and I'm like,
I've made like half a penny off of it. Yeah, well,
this is the worst publicity stunt in the history of
publicity stunts.

Speaker 1 (37:55):
And it's I've also I've also like read books that
people are selling books, and I read the book and
I'm looking to like learn something new, and I learned
nothing new. You know what I mean? You pay money,
go see a documentary and you're like, there's nothing that
I learned you that like explained to anything. I mean,
I think you guys, I think whatever you guys told

(38:17):
about Luna helped explain because you can sit there and
be like, oh, then you know, her wrestling career didn't
work out, so then she and she had bipolar disorder,
so that's why she got into like drinking during drugs.
But it's just like, you know, there's all this other baggage,
like you kind of you guys kind of got into
the psychology of her life of like letting go over
kids to chase this dream, dealing with the doggy dog

(38:40):
man's world of wrestling, Like all of that adds up
to like what happened at the end and her reacting
the way she did because you know, even like the
small things that we might look at like oh, it's
it's wrestling, it's a job, it's nuanced, like she had
to put over a stable whatever, Like, no, she loved
this business and I probably heard her personally that she
wasn't in that position and someone that in her mind

(39:01):
at the time, I didn't really care about this business.
Was the one getting flowers and all this, like all
of that as on a human level, psyche, right, so
it's part of the story.

Speaker 2 (39:12):
Mm hmm. Yeah. And for the record, I actually really
liked Sable, like it's such a good performer, Like she
did her job so well in the sense of like
as a valet. I thought she she did really well.
And I mean she's gorgeous, like so gorgeous, But I

(39:36):
actually liked her. And I actually thought her first match
that they did at WrestleMania, that was her first match ever,
and I mean she held it together really well, Like yeah,
I don't know, uh, Like I mean the fact that
she like wouldn't train or or take bumps, that's that
I would have been so frustrated if I was Luna,

(39:58):
Like I would have wanted to murder someone. But I
I just I do feel like there's a lot of
hate on Sable. Sable went there and she did her job,
you know, she did a job. Yeah, and that may
not be everyone's idea of you know, what she should do,
but I don't know. I just I have to put
it out there because people really don't like Stable. And

(40:21):
I wanted to find someone to say something nice about
Sable in the film, and I was like emailing with
Mark Merrow and I was almost going to interview him,
but he then he ghosted me.

Speaker 1 (40:33):
I just interview Mark Morow a few wants back. He
was not it was It wasn't that bad. But I
do like and I agree, like once again as a
fan that doesn't know anything about anything about what was happening.
As a kid, I like Sable too. She was the
baby Feace. She was cool. And as an adult I
also understand like, if opportunity comes knocking, take the opportunity.
If I can make some money, even better, you know
what I mean? Like yeah, like I like, you know,

(40:56):
sometimes wrestling fans are gonna be like, well this guy,
Like yes, you think if someone gave you everything on
a silver platter, you're not gonna take it. You're gonna
take it. You're like, no, I don't want to do this.
The fans are gonna hate me. You're gonna be like, oh,
I can save up some money put my kids through
college or whatever I want to do, and okay, like
let's do it. Like it's just the way it is. Yeah.

(41:18):
And I used to say that all the time, like
especially when everyone did hitt himcause now he's a lot
more loved since his heel run. But I was like,
do you think, like if the company's like, we're gonna
make you win, he's gonna be like, please don't let
me win. Fans are gonna like, no, he's gonna main
event wrestling and he's gonna win because like it's an
opportunity and he's gonna make the most out of it, right,
And I think that's what's sabled it too. And I

(41:39):
think it's okay to be a little bit of an
opportunist in the life if you know how complicated life
can get. And uh, it just there is there is
the shitty part of like she didn't want to learn
how to really wrestle and she wasn't passionate about it.
And I have a saying now that I say all time,
as I love wrestlers that love wrestling more so than
the ones, I appreciate the ones that probably didn't love
wrestling their entire life. But I and you know as well,

(42:02):
like obviously being part of the independent scene and being
around wrestlers, And I think it was really great how
you featured a lot of the local independent women in
the documentary near the end and showcasing them and stuff,
and you know, having a you know, the Hall sister's mom,
she's like a legendary wrestler here in the Pacific Northwest
featured and she idolized Luna, like sharing those stories are cool.

(42:22):
Think you guys did a great job with that, But
you know how much harder it is when you love
wrestling and your grind and you're on the grind. Then
you know someone that comes in as a model or
an athlete and they learn it and they learn to
love it. But it's like those guys are like wrestling
for like nothing, like the driving for like nothing, because

(42:44):
they love this and you know their passion for this,
and you kind of have a little bit more sympathy
towards them. So I think that's what the Sable Luna
disconnect happens, because one of them loved this and one
and it was passionate about this, and the other one
was just capitalizing them an opportunity. You can't be mad
at either one of them, you know.

Speaker 2 (43:03):
Like, yeah, I mean I came in as a burlesque dancer.
I didn't really like I watched some wrestling growing up,
but I wasn't like a hardcore. But then when I
like started training, I'm like, oh my god, what is this? Like?
I love this so much. I fell in love with it.
But yeah, so I can like see Sable's point of
view because I came in a bit later, right, yeah, yeah, yeah,

(43:27):
h what.

Speaker 1 (43:28):
Is one thing you want people to take away from
this documentary after they watch it?

Speaker 2 (43:32):
So I think, you know what I really want people
to walk away with, is I really I feel like
if Luna were Luna now, she would still be alive
or how do I put this? I feel like the
way that we like mental health is less taboo in

(43:54):
twenty twenty five. If it was like that, say in
the early two thousand's or the nineties, I think Luna
would have had a very different story. I think in
those days, like you didn't really talk about going to therapy,
you didn't talk about bipolar disorder mental health struggles. Now

(44:16):
we talk about it a bit more, quite a bit more,
and there's more of a tolerance and an understanding, and
I think we need to keep the conversation going because
I think it's those taboos that are really dangerous and
keep people like in hiding in terms of their mental

(44:42):
health issues instead of getting help. So I guess like
that's the biggest thing I want people to walk away
with from this documentary is like maybe a deeper understanding
of mental health or in an understanding that it's okay
to talk about it and then it's not something to
be ashamed of. And you know, despite all of Luna's demons,

(45:04):
I mean we're talking about her today. I mean she
died in twenty ten.

Speaker 1 (45:09):
And it's fifteen years later.

Speaker 2 (45:14):
Yeah, we're still talking about her almost sixteen years later,
so and we're making documentaries about her. And so despite
everything she had going against her, she you know, she
was groundbreaking and she was herself.

Speaker 1 (45:32):
Yeah, and I think it's unfortunate that I can't say
it for sure, but she might have never really seen
herself through the eyes that the fans saw her because
as that were kids when she was on TV, we
remember because she was so unique, she was so different,
she sounded different, Like there's a lot of women that
have come and gone that kind of flew under the

(45:54):
radar because there wasn't anything that's special about them. But
like you can ask someone that grew up in the
ninety and Unavashon she just scared me as a kid,
like she was crazy, like you know what I mean. Yeah,
and it sucks that maybe, like you know, at the
end of the documentary, you guys really focus on the
fact that she was upset that she never like even
her son was a man, because I just giving her

(46:15):
of the title one time, like you know, like you know,
that would have just like made her so much happy.
But it's like she was so stubborn on like she
never won the titles, so it's like she never needed it.

Speaker 2 (46:25):
We still remember exactly like she she's one more than
a title in my mind, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (46:31):
She's larger than that. We remember Lunavashon as Lunavashon, and
I think I think you guys did a really good
job of capturing that. Yo, it's your boy, The Wrestling
Classic Justin and I'm here to tell you guys about
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doing the thing you leader? Where can people watch this documentary?

Speaker 2 (48:16):
So? Okay, So in Canada, it's going to air on
Hollywood Suite, which is you can you can get that
channel through your cable provider or through Amazon. I think,
like I think you could probably just like sign up
for it for like a month and then it's like
it's not very expensive. Uh it's so I think it's

(48:41):
airing on December sixteenth, six days, but I haven't seen
anything about it, so I don't have.

Speaker 1 (48:52):
But you're going to be airing on Hollywood Suite, so
people are looking for it. Yeah, they can watch it
in Canada.

Speaker 2 (48:57):
They can watch it in Canada and then on the
US where it's we're trying to like get it somewhere,
but it will for sure be at some point streaming online.
So I would just say the best thing is to
follow our social media, our Lunavshan story social media. Yeah,
for more to like, Yeah, for more information on when

(49:21):
and where it's going to be.

Speaker 1 (49:23):
Isn't area in the States, anywhere in America. It's also
a check out the website and social media to forget.

Speaker 2 (49:28):
To Yeah, that's the thing. We're trying to get it
streaming somewhere in the US.

Speaker 1 (49:34):
So yeah, people start commenting and say you want to
start tweeting out and being like, we want to watch it.
Why can't we watch it somewhere? Start tagging Hulu and
all these places, and we want to watch it. Pick
us up. Yeah, start at the movement, because once once
again Luna deserves the love. I think she's someone that
all of us remember from my childhood, where you liked her,
didn't like her, fan or not, you like, she's someone

(49:54):
you distinctively remember. I will even go on Olimia and
I think they were both amazing, But like, Luna is
up there with Like, she's up there with Sable, She's
up there with Medusa and Bowe McConnell with these like
cult figures that we remember as a kid, but I
didn't really get to know a lot about and now
like we do, and and there's an opportunity to see that.
And I feel like as much as like dark Side,

(50:18):
he was focusing on the dark side of Luna's life
and career, like you guys, balanced it all the happiness,
the dark side, the entirely who Luna is fully in essence,
like all of her triumphs and tragedies was in this documentary.
So that's what makes it different. That's what makes it
stands out. You get to hear people talk about it

(50:38):
that we're genuinely close with her, her son, her friends,
her colleagues, her her her father, you know, like it's
and like one of the last you like, he got
emotional talking about her a ton of times.

Speaker 2 (50:50):
Oh my god.

Speaker 1 (50:51):
You know you can see near the end how much
I think they were celebrating his birthday and you could
just see how much he had love for her, and
and filming that must have all been so cool, and
being in these moments and seeing them were super cool.

Speaker 2 (51:03):
It was cool.

Speaker 1 (51:05):
Yeah, And you get a little bit about the other drama.
You get to learn about Moolah and that drama and
stuff Alundra dealt with, Like it's it's about Luna, but
you also get to like learn a little bit more
about women's wrestling.

Speaker 2 (51:17):
And it will be on Hollywood Suite in Canada on
the starting December sixteenth at six pm.

Speaker 1 (51:24):
Okay, so you can.

Speaker 2 (51:26):
It's available on Hollywood Suite on demand and it'll yeah,
so starting December sixteenth, so if you want, I'll post
about it online as well. And then trying to figure that.

Speaker 1 (51:39):
We're trying to figure it out. Yeah. The other thing
that I now that I brought up Molula quickly was
it was fun before we like wrap this up that
like there were people that were like, no, she was
a pimp and she was posting us and she was
sending us up with men with the intention that we
were going to hook up with them or whatever. Then
tho's the other women on the flip side, Like No, it

(52:00):
wasn't like that. She was just saying like if you
want to get a free meal, like and it's like, well,
like that's a whole story in itself.

Speaker 2 (52:06):
That's totally yeah, it really is. But you know what
straight from Luna's mouth, Yeah, Mula did pimper out, so
I don't I don't know. Yeah, that's a tough one.

Speaker 1 (52:18):
Like you always have the defenders and then the people
being on the other side. So I found that very
interesting as well. That all being said, we even talking
about Mula talking about Alondra. Just you started the twenty
nineteen it's coming up today in twenty twenty five. Do
you have any inkling or intrigue to do another Rustling documentary?

Speaker 2 (52:37):
Oh, I'm so tired, Like I had a while I
made this documentary and there was COVID, so I'm tired.
But I have so much good footage that I think
there's like some type of series in here. I do
I want to make a series, Like I have some

(52:58):
incredible interviews about Daphne. Yeah, like and she is just
such an incredible person. I know there was a dark side.
My interview was before the dark side.

Speaker 1 (53:10):
Yeah, and you said you have five hours of stuff
that you cut down to two hours. I mean, like,
I have so much you should stretch the Mula thing
probably and guessing an hour, you can probably stretch a
whole Daphne, Like, I think there's a lot there.

Speaker 2 (53:23):
There's like a concussion aspect, there's like an online bullying
thing that I really want to go into, especially like
I did. I had like such a long, amazing interview
with ref Aubrey, and like most of it, like ninety
nine percent percent of it's on the cut of room
floor because I just had to chop out so much. Yeah,

(53:45):
there's a lot. So I do think there's something there
for like mental health, women, concussions, online bullying, and there's something.
I got to figure it out.

Speaker 1 (53:55):
So if you have like a four or five part
series of I've Been Arresting and every episode features a
different thing the bullying, they get a mula story like
an episode that's everything's one topic, but there's enough in
the at least a thirty to forty minute episode each.
I think that could be.

Speaker 2 (54:13):
If anyone's watching this and they want to fund it,
If you want to be a producer of it, reach
out to me if you have money, because that's the
most exhausting part. It's like, if I had the money,
I can make it. Yeahing the money, And that's what
took me so long to make this documentary. Is I
spent years just trying to raise the money for it.

Speaker 1 (54:32):
Yeah, any other projects you have in the works. Yeah,
we are going on. You have to talk about them.

Speaker 2 (54:39):
Yeah. I have two scripted feature films that I produced
that are being in the midst of being released right now.
One is called armagedon Road. The other one's called What
Comes Next? Sorrying me as Sorry. And then I'm developing
another documentary that I I won't really talk about right now,

(55:01):
but it's it's a documentary about my aunt. Yeah, and
I'm always trying to get the next film going.

Speaker 1 (55:12):
So where can people follow you on this this filmmaking
journey and and wrestling and everything that you do of
being a mom your whole life. It's you wear like
six different hats. I remember, I think we talked about
it one time, like I wear so many hats I
don't even know. But what where do you? Where can
people find you? Where can people follow along your journey?

Speaker 2 (55:32):
So Kate like my Kate Kroll like filmmaker social media
is Kate Kroll dot black Moon Media because that's my
production company and my calamity Kate show Girl is my
wrestling my alter ego. Yeah, and just like a big

(55:54):
shout out to the producers of the documentary, Pasha Petricky
and Michael Pash yeah, yeah, Greg Oliver, of.

Speaker 1 (56:03):
Course, yeah, you guys, make sure you guys go check
it out. Now. I'm just thinking about things in the documentary.
I also thought it was such a trip that whole
Gangirl story about the day when I passed away, and
I never heard that either, And I'm like, what a coincidence,
What a weird.

Speaker 2 (56:22):
Coincidence his gun story. There's like so much more to
that story that I had to cut out. But basically,
I'll tell her, I know we have. But when Luna
got into when she found God, like she became a
born again Christian, when towards the end of their relationship,

(56:42):
and she like dragged Gangrel out to this like church event.
He really didn't want to go. She dragged him out,
and this guy comes up to him and says, God
told me I need to ask for your phone number,
and he's like whatever, like I'm not giving you my number,
And he eventually did give his phone number to this guy,

(57:04):
and then, like I don't know, weeks later, he and
Luna got into a really bad fight. He's like, he
says in the documentary, they were fighting for days and
so at one point he pulled out a gun and
he's like I'm just gonna shoot Luna, and then I'm
gonna shoot myself, and I'm just gonna like end her suffering.

(57:25):
And then he's like, I can't shoot Luna. I love
her too much, something like I'm just gonna shoot myself.
And he had the gun in his mouth about to
do it, and the phone rang right which you hear
in the dock. But the thing is, it was that
guy who wanted me to have your phone number. That

(57:45):
guy called him as he had the barrel of the
gun in his mouth. It's wild.

Speaker 1 (57:51):
I'm telling you, man, the universe works in divine fashion.
I'll tell you got stories there you can do like
a mini YouTube, you sort a YouTube, know this stuff
of pop up and monetize itself. Just I'm telling her
a little many stories, you know what I'm trying to say,
Like there's stuff out there, like that's a cool story
that I think people would really like. I just enjoyed it,
and if they want listen to watch us, they'll enjoy it.

(58:12):
Like that's insane. Thank you so much for doing this
once again. I hope everyone watches the documentary. I could
talk about it for I've a couple of minutes i'
thinking about some I'm like, oh, yeah, that happened, and
this happened, and I forgot about this. But like, because
Luna had such a long and cool career, She's part
of multiple generations of wrestling. She was part of the
eighties as a little kid. She remember she was a

(58:35):
child in wrestling. She was traveling with her dad and
and Paul and them, and like on the road with
them to like being a part of it. And then
the later part like being part of the Monday Night Wars,
being part of the New Generation era. Then she was
a legendarying all the you know, the most recent eras
and got inducted into the Cauliflower Ali Club Hall of
Fame and all this stuff, like she's seen it all.

(58:55):
So there's just so much to cover. I think it's
a great job. I think it's great documentary. I think,
you know, I was just complaining about how we get
documentaries about the same people all the time, but there's
not enough on Luna. You know. It's always nWo, DX,
Stone Cold, like you know, and I love all those people,
and I love all those things, but it's cool to
see those that don't get featured as often featured so
I mean, nom many Rick Flair. How many Ric Flair

(59:17):
documentaries can we watch? I love the guy, but come on,
we get it. He took his clothes off when he's drunk.

Speaker 2 (59:23):
W W should hire me to make documentaries for them.
I'm just going to put that out there, put it
out there.

Speaker 1 (59:31):
Put it in the universe. But appreciate you coming on
this as a blast, and hope everybody checks it out
wherever they can. Just search it up the Luna take
the Luna Vershan shot up story, follow them on social
media and see where you can watch it. And if
you guys want it enough, then maybe just kind of
put out there on the on the social media and
try to get the word out there so more people
can see it.

Speaker 2 (59:52):
Thank you so much, Thank you.

Speaker 1 (59:54):
I appreciate it. I won't keep doing the thing. We'll
see you all later.

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Episode 210 - Lunatic: Luna Vachon Story w/ Kate Kroll

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Episode 210 - Lunatic: Luna Vachon Story w/ Kate Kroll