Episode Transcript
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This podcast is part of the sportssocial podcast network cloud Chess. Here set
up. Hello everyone and welcome toanother episode of Two Sleeps in the Gully.
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It's just a duet tonight. It'sthe Aaron's a Squared with you for
this episode. Got Aaron, Howare you mate? I'm very well,
Thank you mate? Are you going? I am really good, ready and
rare to go for this one.I've been looking forward to it. Or
we have got Australia about to takethe field again. It's the first T
twenty international against South Africa are aboutto start in a few hours time.
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Doesn't really agree with my work schedule, so I might have to watch a
replay. But it is pretty excitingbecause we have three debutants in this one.
So we're going to go through andhave a bit of a chat about
the upcoming T twenty series and everythingto look forward to there. And it's
getting ever closer to the World Cup. It's getting yeah, that's ticking away,
and there's a lot there's a lotgoing on all around the world actually
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a lot of bits and pieces thatare coming out on the cups going on.
And we've got Pakistan playing a seriesagainst Afghanistan, as well, which
has been I've got a couple abit of it. It's on very very
slow, low sort of tracks.It's been very interesting. Some competitive games
had another man cat incident in thereto keep things firing. It's actually one
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of the ones. Well, I'mnot going to go into it because that's
not one of the things I've gotscheduled for to night's episode, but it's
one of the ones I don't disagreewith. Yeah, because the Shadab Khan
left well before he hit the deliverystrike. The ones that I disagree with
other ones where the bowl has comerunning in knowing that they're going to hang
onto the ball to trick the batsman. So the batsman trying to do what
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the batsman's supposed to do. They'retrying to gain what advantage they can legally,
and you can see most of themleaving the crease. You know,
you're talking fractions of a second,like frames between when the ball is probably
supposed to leave the hand, oreven when the ball is supposed to leave
the hand and the bowler hangs ontoit for the purpose of taking it off.
Those ones aren't cool. Those arenot what we should be you know,
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we shouldn't be seeing the going rullsin the rules. They're the ones
they're like, no, I don'tlike that, we don't like that,
but this one Shadow can't left wayearly Shadow was taking the literal it was.
That's one of the ones, andhe's been doing it the whole time
he was out there. That's oneof the ones. It's perfectly reasonable,
and I have absolutely no issues withyou're coming in taking the bales off because
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you're not trying to deceive the batsmanright at the point of release the batsman
your nose. The batsman is obviouslytaking an advantage and they're they're the ones
that are fine. And I'm sureGlenn would be like it just stay new
cruise no matter what. Sorry Glenn, that's a really horrible blend impression.
But but no, that that's oneof absolutely no issues with. I think
that's perfectly fine. On from Afghanistan, Shadad Khan is clearly taking an unfair
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advantage there, and that's what therules for I believe, and someone won't
have to go and check my cricketingknowledge. But I'm pretty sure when the
rule was originally brought in, youknow, back in the times of Douglas
Jardine and all that that it wassupposed to be. You had to take
the bales off before you came intoyour You couldn't do the whole gather anything.
You had to run in and takethe baals. And it purely was
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to stop batsmen leaving while the bowlerwas running in. And then it's been
adapted now that you can come upand over. But if you go past
the horizontal and you know, aslong as you got your finger on your
nose and you hop on your legtwo times, you know all this,
and so it's it's changed what thespirit of the rule was to begin with,
which was so that batsman doesn't mean, you know, running before the
bowlers even bowled the ball. Sonow we're talking, you know, splitting
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hairs on fractions of a second andusing bowlers going running and pretend I'll trick
him. And yeah, so thatis the one that we all have a
real problem with where you're deceiving thebatsman and you and you're able to do
it when you're a bowler because asa batsman, you have a split vision.
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You know, you want to getgoing, Okay, you've got your
bat in the crease, and youhave every right to anticipate that when the
bowler reaches a certain point in hisaction and he's going to let the ball
go. If you've got it inyour mind as a bowler, you can
just show part of that to thebatsman. He's gone old right, well
he's about to let the ball go. I'm about to start off. And
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then in that split second he's outof the crease. You've still got the
ball in your hand and you're takingthe baals off. That is not cool.
That's not the that's the spirit.That not what we want. That's
not how we want to see gamesdecided. We want to see games decide
with the skill of the bowler deliveringthe ball. The skill of the field
is taking catches or run out,and then the skill of the batter actually
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hitting the ball. We don't wanttechnicalities, you know. But I digress.
We're going too far. So whatI'm a point was with the World
Cup is as getting close. Sowe've got to finish off our one day
International World Tour with the best oneday International sides for each nation. And
this time we're joining our neighbors overthe ditch. We're heading to New Zealand,
we're heading over the Dutch. TheProfusion Chips, the perennial team that
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punches above their way. They're alittle engine that could, aren't they.
They have been to the last twoWorld Cup finals and come up as bridesmaids.
This is a team that when youlook at the demographics of New Zealand,
you know what, there's five millionpeople that live there, you know,
five million, nine hundred ninety ninenine hundred of them play rugby and
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there's a Genie Downey pool of playersyou picked on a play cricket like it's
it's ridiculous. We look at thatit's it's not a cricket mad country.
And for a long, long periodof time this team has produced a team
that you know, gives no quarterplays better than it should. You know,
cuts giants down at the knees,has overachieved, overachieved. It's always
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in the mix in the big tournamentsany ways around there, and they're always
playing well. And the end theinaugural World Test Test Champions. So we're
going to have a look in andsee some of the wonderful players that have
represented the the Kiwi's over over thereone day history and see which ones of
them have made the cut as ourall time One day International eleven for them,
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So all of that is coming upright after this checks up. Game
one of the T twenty International seriesbetween Australia and South Africa kicks off,
well this evening, it's actually tomorrowmorning, two am out on, so
I don't think that having to,you know, work for a living is
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going to agree with me watching thisone live, so I'll have to probably
watch. I'll replayer that one.It's the first team in rubbyns in.
But I could probably stay up andwatching if I really wanted to, because
I got a late start that amongfalling in solidarity with you, we'll both
watching on days. So there's gota bit of a change from the white
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Ball squad. We announced a fewpodcasts to go. A few big names
have gone home. Smith is nursingan injury that you sustained. Lords,
he's not ready to come back.Starkey is obviously not there. Glenn Maxwell
has pulled out as well. ActuallyI don't think Maxwell is in this one,
but he's not going to come forthe one day as he's been replaced
by Matt Wade. Of all considerations, I thought that was a bit older.
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I suppose they're just going for somebit of experience to leave the young
guys around the pack just another puzzlingselection from a group that puzzling us.
I've got no particular issues with MattWade the player, but you would think
that all right, so we've justchance we've lost the top order all around
it. Let's maybe see we canfind it like a top order bat that
we want to blood. But again, you know, there's the argument to
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be had too, with a lotof these experienced guys missing out that we're
going to go with, you know, someone who's been there before, knows
the score, played international cricket andjust making sure that you know they're not
all getting lost hurting the hurting thecats together. Mitchell marsh is the captain
for this series. It's going tobe very interesting, isn't it. Again
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we spoke about it ad nauseam howwe're a bit sort of shocked that he
hasn't just been announced as the whiteball captain but we've been told he's only
the captain for the for the series. And we went through about how we
just don't understand how they haven't gottheir ducks in a row. It's been
nine months since our last Teach twentygame. Why are we auditioning? Why
has it not been worked out aheadof time? But this is where we
are. But he's announced his firsteleven and we have three debutants in the
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eleven, which I'm very ex Thisis what I'm excited about. This is
this is what we want to seein the T twenty squad. We need
your blood in there. We needwe need just something different, a different
direction from the way that it's justambled along over the last few years.
I think Mitch Marsh is a captain. It'll be very interesting to see what
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he's like tactically. If he bringsthe same approach to his captaincy is what
he brings to his batting, wemight be in for some fire harks.
The one I'm really really excited aboutis Spencer Johnson. Yeah, this guy
just looks like an absolute monster.So I'll run through the eleven. So
Matt Short and Travis head of beINannounced as the new look opening partnership for
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this Tea twenty side. No DavidWarner, no Aaron Finch, so right
left combination love it. Mitch Marshtaking up his normal spot at three for
the Tea twenty side. Josh Inglishas taking the gloves at four and we've
got Marcus Stoyness, Tim David,Aaron Hardy is the second of our Debutant's
getting a crack after a couple ofreally good years domestically in Australia in all
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formats really Sean Abbott, Nathan Ellis, Adam Zampa and as you said,
the one that we're pretty excited aboutSpencer Johnson, who has been devastating in
everything. He started to turning thegolden the last twelve months. He had
an absolutely stunning Big Bash which hethen turned into a good second half of
the Sheffield Shield for South Australia.He's gone over to the one hundred and
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been one of the big ticket itemsover. There was a four for one
off. You get a chance tohave a look at that on YouTube.
The Spencer Johnson just reign of destructions. Had he cut through this turn,
watched the watched the game where JoeRoot came out and reverse ramped him for
six. Yeah, and it wasnot it was not a bad ball that
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he rapped and then Johnson's just comeout kept his call and then he's bowled
him his little length ball that's nippedback and just clipped the bales off,
just happy as you're like going,oh no, no, no, is
he be for six? Cool?I got this and then just come back,
no fuss, no masters come inand went all right, this is
great moving on. There wasn't thissort of oh god, he's hit and
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just the panic it was. Heshows a lot of composure for a guy
that doesn't have a lot of experience. Experience. Yeah, And the thing
I'm really excited about is that he'sa different He's a different left arm quip
to what Starkey is. Starky isvery slingy and comes from a very a
very awkward position with the ball andit has a slightly round amish action when
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he's bowling at his best. SpencerJohnson is very straight up and down,
which means he's much more direct atthe batsman, and he does swing.
He swings the ball quite late,whereas Starkey can be a little bit out
of the hand and the other thing. So when they talked about it quite
a lot, especially because the topicof short ball shortpage bowling was you know,
quite prevalent during the ashes. Withthat slinging action, it's a lot
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harder, a starkey to bowl thoselike Mitchell Johnson esque you know, rip
your face off bounces, whereas Ithink Spencer Johnson will be a lot like
his name much yeah, and beable to get those balls that come at
the bat. You know that that'syou know, that something that's really hard
to quantify, that heavy ball bowlsort and that nasty spot just between your
nipples and your and your nose,that's where you really don't want the ball
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to be. And he seems toget it there pretty regularly when he bowls
his short ball and good clip.I mean he's regularly hitting hundred before he
plus. Yeah, it's exciting timesand some new blood. I mean,
it's really really good to see thatsomebody's been rewarded for you know, bursting
on the scene and it hasn't beena flash in the pan. He went
over to the hundred and absolutely destroyedthem over there. He's done well in
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first class cricket, He's done wellin the Big Bash. I mean,
he was probably close to one ofthe players of the of the season last
year in the Big Bash. Andhe deserves his chance. Yeah, absolutely,
yeah, moving on that too,Like so the other likes we've gotten,
you know, Matt Short I've beentalking about quite a while. I'm
happy to see him get his shotbecause I think as an opener too,
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that's what I'd like it to seein this He's opening the banning where he's
been really successful for the strikers.Let's let's give these guys a chance to
succeed at what they've already succeeded at. And I think, I like to
say, depending on conditions, ifhe gets a couple of overs, because
I think in India, I thinkhe can be the not necessarily the same
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production as Glenn Maxwell, but hecan offer the same flexibility in terms of
your skill set. Maxwell is incrediblyvalue to us because it allows us to
play a legitimate second spinner because atT twenty level, he is a legitimate
option. He's not going to belike your Rashi Khans or your Zampers or
anything like that. But he'll giveyou and he you know, he'll give
you one, two, three,or four overs. You can quite confidently
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give him four overs of the gamesuits so you can give him. And
he's a guy that cambat in thetop five, which gives you that a
bit of a golden arm of hisbowling as well. It's nothing for him
to come on and jag or wiget in the first over or something.
Yeah, and that's the other thingis he's quite comfortable bowling in the power
play, which he did a coupleof times in the IP or he did
regularly for the Strikers. So thisis a guy that's you can you can
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plug him in wherever if you do. You know a lot of captains like
to try and you know, firstover, first couple of overs of the
game, maybe stealing over before thebatsman it gets sent. They see a
spinner and go, I don't wantto get out to the spinner and first
over and you know that overgoes fortwo or three and all of a sudden
you're you know, you've got themomentum, got some momentum. So I'd
like to hopefully see him being ableto be utilized in that in that manner
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of the conditions suit because I thinkthat, yeah, well Maxwell, people
who really look on him as he'ssort of Maxwell's heir apparent in the Australians,
what isn't he You know, he'sa sort of guy. He's a
much more conventional batsman. So Idon't think we're ever going to see the
switch hits and the ramps and allthe you know, the funky stuff that
he doesn't really need to. Heallows him to play in that way and
still be successful. Yeah, soyeah, I really iron him off as
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possibly the successor to Maxwell at somestage because I know Maxwell's injured again and
not young and not young, soand this could be in theory, this
is the time in a cricketer's life. You know you're coming in you'r late
twenties, your early thirties, that'swhen you're at your best. That's when
you've got the most to offer,you've learned the lesson. I would imagine
that Maxwell is targeting the World Cupand from that point Australia should be looking
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elsewhere after that, like you needto start blooding the new players, like
you know, Maxwell's got the pedigreeand if he's form, you know,
his franchise cricket form holds. Yeah, you should be given every consideration of
the World Cup. But at somepoint you've got to as an administration,
you've got to you've got to cutthe umbilical cord and go it a right
thank you, and many's going tobe our criticisms of the previous selection systems.
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We're too many people have been heldon two for too long. I'll
get to decide when they want togo. And you're putting out public pronouncements
on I'm going to retire after theWorld cuping in your I'm going to retire
after the SCG test or or whateverit happens to be, which really gets
in mind. You know you yougets told when you're going to finish,
mate, you don't tell anybody.They tell you. And I suppose to
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touching on the final debut on AaronHardy. This is a guy that has
been This has just been inevitable,hasn't it. I can't see him getting
much of a bowl, and Ifigured, I'm thinking he's going to bat
five. I reckon, I'll pushhim up around about four or five.
You reckon, Yeah, I don'tknow about certainly, if situation allows it.
I think they want to. Ifthey're smart, they're going to give
these these guys everything. Spect Johnson'sgoing to bowl his four overs, and
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we're going to give Hardy and Shortthe opportunity to face the many balls.
I think they're envisioning Harder being aguy they're just going to go out with
the license. I think he's goingto be. He and Tim David are
just going to be. You goout, They're go six and seven,
you reckon. Yeah, I thinkthey're going to be if they like,
they might come up if say Shortand Travis Head get the get going and
there's enough balls left. But Ithink the plan will be to play them
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as late in the innings as theycan afford. To just go out clear
mind to clear the front foot,hit it over the into the stands.
I don't think, because you know, Stoyness is the more experience of the
bunch and typically is a guy thatlikes to spend a little bit of time
to get going if he can getaway with it. He continues to me
to be that big question mark sittingin that middle order when we persisting with
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him. He's experienced, and it'sit's you know, I suppose he's one
of those all round like he playedhis very best game for Australia in the
first game he ever played, andyou know, he's showed flashes inconsistently of
him being you know, a matchwinner with either discipline for Australia. But
then you go and watch him playingin into the domestic franchises and you just
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see him just absolutely dominating at time. So it's just one of those ones
that you know he's been around fora while, he's the experienced. He's
face that these bowlers a lot.So, but I would think with with
you know, with Marsh, withHardy, with you know, these guys
all starting comes through your Hayden,Curs, your your will, Sutherland's and
you know the young can Greens.Obviously, I'd say that Steyn's days are
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are numbered. But you know,at the moment he's he probably deserves to
still be there just but he's graspedon that is becoming more and more tenuous
the more that guys like Aaron Hardystarts having a really really big series and
you know the Big Bash is comingup. If someone like cam Green gets
a bit of time obviously after theTest games, he gets in and has
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a strong all these sort of youngkids coming up, but it's going to
be harder and harder to justify andall around a like stayin Us that sometimes
fires and quite frankly doesn't really bringthat much with the ball. I've at
the very best, he's a battingall rounder and he's very best, whereas
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we've got guys look hardy and greenand cur not so much curve. He's
probably more of a bowling all rounder. Adam Sutherland has taken another step back
to the where he's a genuine optionin both disciplines as well. Why are
we persisting with an old guy whowas part of the old Guard? You
know the other guys are going,they're gone. Well, I don't really
be looking to musk. I wouldimagine that a considerable man of that old
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Guard will be back for the WorldCup. I imagine that Warner will be
persisted with. Because it will bepersisted. You know, you'll get Stark
and Commons. I imagine you'll comeback for the World Cup. You'll imagine
you'll gets You'll get storying Us comeback, You'll get Smith coming back.
So I don't think they're quite readyto give up on that, which I
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think is wrong. I think itwas a really good opportunity. It was
a very disappointing World Cup campaign athome, we missed the semis. A
lot of that Guard is you know, well into their into their thirties.
It's an opportunity now to just gocut the cord and go right, well,
we had three three cracks, Yeah, three cracks fought? Was it
four cracks? That's at least three, that at least three, at least
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three with the with that squad.You know, there's some changes obviously,
but with the majority of that squadthey had three cracks, one one mister
Semis on the other ones. Soit's like, all right, cool,
you're getting on a bit now,let's let's start again. Let's get a
new captain in. We've got someyoung, exciting players that are making their
names from themselves, not only herebut also abroad, and start building.
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It might not be the twenty twentyfour World Cup we win, but it
might be the twenty twenty sixth onethat we get because we've get these guys
into them as opposed to stretching theseguys out for what on average looks like
it will be another failed World Cupcampaign in twenty twenty four, just on
past the ty sticks, and thenyou've only got two years to go and
get these guys ready to go fora World Cup, And if they're not
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ready for their first World Cup,then we're looking at twenty twenty eight before
these guys get the Clisso it's just, you know, we're just gone from
another generation. We're just sort ofstaggering out. We're staggering our teams poorly,
I feel, but just moving tothe South Africans really quickly before we
jump on. So there's a fewbig names that are being rested, but
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there's still quite a few exciting onesthere. So aight, and Markham is
the captain. Quentin Decock is backfor South Africa. You know, Za
Hendricks is a big name. HeinrichKlassen has absolutely devastated not only the hundred
but the major league cricket. DavidMiller in Guini nor Kia, Tristan stubs,
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he's a't exciting players in that.Tristan oh yeah, oh he looks
like he looks really really good.Riley Rousseau, who you know, is
either going to score a hundred ornothing. So great great player, but
horrible consistency issues. So yeah,there's some really big names there. It's
going to be a really exciting series, I think, and I think from
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South Africa's point of view that therethey would be pretty fired up. They'll
be fired up to get this done. And there's some they've got some names
of the future that they're obviously they'rewanting to get as much cricket into as
well ahead of the twenty twenty fourWorld Cup. So yeah, it's going
to be it's going to be agreat series. Well, we've kind of
touched on some of the issues thatwe feel South African cricket have gone through,
and we won't go down that rabbithole at this point in time.
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There is no doubt that there's somethingabout Australia playing in South Africa. It
doesn't matter what the format is.Look, I love it Australia South Series.
There's a very very intense and withthe exception of the last one we
had, they've all been fantastic,fantastic examples of cricket. Yeah, honestly,
if it wasn't for the Ashes,I would quite happily watch Home and
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Away Australia South Africa series. Ithink they're most of the time they're absolutely
gripping cricket and for some reason inSouth Africa we've seen to get really really
exciting games, Like some of thebest Australia South Africa games have actually been
in South Africa. I just thinkit's fantastic that it's one of the few
away series we actually win is whenwe go over there was some ridiculous stat
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that they hadn't beaten us at home, like in South Africa for like fifteen
years, and then we were ina sort of a similar boat. It
was nearly ten years or something likethat since we'd beaten South Africa on our
shore. We just kept rocking upto each other's backyard and beating the crap
out of each other. Great,So yeah, I'm excited. The one
day is obviously be coming up afterthat, and that's probably one of them.
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Here. I really do enjoy myone day in the national cricket so
not quite as much a test,but I really it pains me how little
one day international cricket gets played andhow how little it's valued, how little
it's valued. But it's going tobe good white ball crew coming up.
It's probably not going to be ata time that we can properly enjoy it,
but all the same, thank goodnessfor Ko Ko minis all right.
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Right after this, guys, we'regoing to get stuck into the New Zealand
one day all time one day internationalside. There here we are another all
time one day international segment as youknow, if you've been following the podcast
for a while, we've been goingaround and doing similar to last year,
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we did our all time test elevensper country. We've now been going through
gearing up towards the upcoming one dayin the National World Cup. We've been
doing one day international sides by eachnation where we're going to have We're going
to go through the names. Wehaven't got an eleven in mind. We've
got ideas for who's going to beplaying each position, and normally we like
to have three so we can sortof get a bit of a majority rules.
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But if not, we've come downor a bit of a coin flip.
Is the coin flip twice? Now? I think twice, I believe
both times I've lost. I'm notkeen my lucky coin. We'll see it's
got two tails two tails or something. But yeah, so that's what we
do. So we go through orwe'll argue the points of you know,
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Aaron might have a particular open remindand I might have a different one,
and then it's going to see whetheror not we can convince the other.
That's, you know, which person'sgot the stronger case where good journey or
people. We usually come to sometype of a grand yes, yes we
do. And one thing we alwayslike to point out is that one day
cricket has evolved a hell of alot more than what test create has over
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the course of when it started.So I give the same spiel most times
that I'm doing it. So obviously, when One Day's first started, if
you walked off the field with abouttwo forty, the other team was packing
their bags and heading for the busbecause there's no point they're going to chase
down two forty. That's a matchwinning score. We've got no chance and
as we know now, two fortiesmost likely going to be well below par
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and you're up against it. Soit's been in terms of pure statistics,
it's obviously a lot easier for abatsman to look more impressive. So,
for example, Savivian Richards is thebest One day International batsman of all time.
Don't come at me with you everat coalies, Savivian Richards is the
best one day international player of alltime. His record on paper is his
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inferior to Johnny Bestow when you're lookingat total runs, hundreds, fifties,
strike rate, But are you comparingJohnny best O to Savivian Isaac Alexander.
No one in their right mind isgoing to come out and convince you that
Johnny Bestow is a better player thansaviv and Richards. So and that's what
we've made. So the stats change, the stats have evolved. You know,
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teams are now scoring you know,three fifty, a whole lot more
reaguly than teams were even scoring twoninety even just eight in Afghanistan Pakistan game
par in those in those games that'sbeen around about two ninety three hundred and
Yeah, you're going back to theyear of the first couple of World Cups.
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You're looking at two thirty two fortyis probably, and then they were
originally sixty over tournaments. Yeah,so they were making two hundred and forty
and sixty or two hundred and thirtyand sixty overs. So there's been an
ex there's been an expectation shift abouthow the game is being played. So
not so we don't just discount allof those players. We put a lot
of waiting on how good they were, were you know, in the context
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that they were expected to be andwe did love to use the ICC ranking.
Yeah, that's been it's been beena bit of a guide for us.
Obviously we're trying to not make itas murky and as you know,
we try to a subjective. We'dlike to put some sort of hard and
obviously it's not a perfect system.But for example, you know, David
Gower is a good one from England. He has got one of the highest
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one day International rankings ever. He'sone day I sec one day International ranking
is higher than Vat Coli'S now VeratColey I've got comfortably as the second best
one day International batsman because some ofit, the stuff that he has done
as a one day batsman in hisprime is obscenely good, like obscenely good.
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If it's not if it's not severe, it's vat Those are your two
options. David Gower, according tothose rankings, has had a higher peak
than what Coally has so and thatis because during you know, the expectations
on those players were different. Soit's a way of sort of just making
sure that these guys that were playingin this you know, the eighties and
(27:56):
all that, where you're only scoringyou know, two hundred and fifty aren't
just getting out voted due to aweight of statistics. Statistical though, so
with all that, we're going toget stuck into it, and as we
always do, we're going to startwith the openers. And I think I'm
not going to be too bold andsay open to number one is one that
we're not going to disagree on,and that's going to be Brandon McCullum.
(28:18):
Yeah. First, the first guypicked in this team basically from me from
in terms of order and in termsof order, in terms of just breathing,
in terms of brutality, a greatcaptain and just an absolute destructive force
as a batsman, as guy pick. And he's an example as well.
If someone that the numbers don't reflecthis value to the side, so are
(28:42):
you're looking at that He's got sixthousand runs, five hundred and thirty two
fifties, only an average of thirtystrike rate of ninety six. But if
anyone who watched the two thousand andfifteen World Cut knows the value that McCallum
can bring exceeds those numbers, he'sobviously I'm assuming you've got him as the
wicket keeper. You're not be playinganyone else's keeper. I don't have another
(29:04):
particularly remind there some options for mewith the wicket Cooper and both of them
open to batting. Okay, seehad McCallum. They also had Tom Lafon,
who's basically the custodian for the oneday team at the moment. A
fine player in his own right.I don't think he's quite all time level,
(29:25):
but yeah, he's another option aswell. But yeah, so that's
it. And I know, Iknow we're gonna have disagreements because we've sort
of had a little bit of achat outside of the podcast. We're gonna
have a disagreement on this one.So who have you got as your I
have Martin Gupta. Martin Guptall,yep, a very very fine player.
I believe he's the only, justchecking now, the only double centurion for
(29:48):
New Zealand in One Day Internationals andwas just massacre for brutal just show.
Seven and a half thousand runs,as we said, a high score of
two thirty seve not at eighteen OneDay International hundreds, thirty nine fifties,
average of forty one, strike rateof eighty seven. Brilliant, brilliant player.
I'm going to go with Nathan Astallwas my open up. And when
(30:12):
you consider that also that the differentyears they played in. I think that
the disparity between their numbers sort ofevens out a little bit. So seven
thousand runs he did play thirty moregames, so sixteen hundred, forty one
fifties and average of thirty five,strike rate of seventy two. So when
you're partnering up with McCallum, thisis sort of the guy that can go
(30:32):
a bit long. But I justwant to point out the other string to
Astall's bow is the bowling. SoI'm just going to find his numbers here.
I don't know why I didn't.That's well over one hundred and fifty
weikts I believe, or one hundredand thirty wikits or something like that.
So no, not quite. It'sninety nine weekts to thirty eight. So
(30:56):
just he's just another string to hisbow. And I think you're playing in
that era, so like he's playedpredominantly in certainly know what the late nine,
his early thousand, so you know, it hasn't quite evolved. Obviously
it's not you're not looking at twotwenty being and winning score level, but
it's also that's in that middle phasewhere you know, this is between seventy
(31:18):
two eighty two nine, he startedto become a sort of this is he
boot pre you know that famous runnertorn sorry Callewis Rana, rapid Fire,
Shrilink and opening Blitz Craig day BroadSo that was that was revolutionary the cricket
at that point. People just didn'tdo that. So this is when he's
sort of day boots. That's howfar he got far back he goes in
(31:42):
terms of in terms of that,so that's well, that's my my vote
who I go to. And youcame up with another option as well.
Yeah, but I wasn't going withMartin Guptell. And that's not to underestimate
Nathan Asphole's well, because it's veryand we're going to be discussing this one
folks. I also able to havewent with Stephen Fleming to open the batting
(32:06):
with McConnell. Yeah, so Fleminghe used their second leading run score all
time, I believe, Yeah,behind Ross Taylor. So he's got just
under just over eight thousand runs Ishould say, only eight hundred forty nine
fifties average thirty two strike ray toseventy one, so you know, very
(32:32):
comparable. Did play a two hundredand eighty games man. He wasn't He
was around for a long time,wasn't he Flemming? And he was a
very very good captain as well.Damien Martin needed him. He had Damian
Martin on the lockdown. Yeah hedid. Yeah, I actually remember that
that period where Martin couldn't couldn't geta run just they just brought like three
(32:54):
points in and then they just bowledoutside off and Martin did get out.
So yeah, he was my otheroption in the opening role. He could
obviously probably bat him a little bitlower, but I wouldn't do that.
If he's going to be in theteam for me, he opens, I
think there's I think three and fourfor us are going to be pretty easy.
(33:15):
So I think and after that you'regetting into in sort of the late
five six, and I just don'tthink Flemings play. We won't know he,
like I said, for me,if he's going to make the team,
he makes the team as the openwith McCallum. Oh, so I
suppose it comes down we've got tomake a make a choice now. So
(33:38):
I'm still leaning astall them. Youknow, when you're comparing, you know,
he stats are fairly similar in termsof total runs, total hundreds total
fifties when you compare compare errors,and when you consider you've got McCullum at
the other end, who can beyou know, a flash in the pan
at times. We all saw thetwenty fifteen World Cup. I think a
(34:00):
guy I like Astall, who's aguy that can just settle in, play
a long game, looks after himself, and can be extremely destructive when he
needs to be as well. Look, I would have no problem with Astell
being in the team, so you'reyou're happy to move off off of Guptal.
Well, the thing about the thingabout Astel is the ninety nine wickets.
(34:22):
Okay, that to me, withthe sort of balance of the team
that you're looking to have, youwant to have guys who you can throw
the ball too for a few waiversto get you out of a bit of
a bind. Guptall doesn't do that, although he is a superior fieldsman.
But Astell was a pretty fine fieldingin his own right as well. So
I'm happy to go with my avenAstall. Well, I'm just having a
(34:45):
look now. So Nathan Astall actuallyat one point was ranked as high as
second, second or third in thirdin the world for one Day International batting,
and I'm just having a look nowat at Martin gup tools and for
(35:10):
batting the whole. It's still veryimpressive. I say only but he only
made it as high as fifth,but still has to be incredibly impressive.
So I think, yeah, muchof a muchness will bounced towards the icy
seed rankings and we'll go a napidAstall cool all right, So our openers
are McCullum and Astall. Not abad start, I think over on the
(35:32):
right we can just lock in three. Yeah, Kane Williamson like him will
be New Zealand's best batsmen if peopledon't consider him already. It couldn't be
that far away. One hundred andsixty one games to show us, seven
thousand runs, thirteen hundred and fortytwo fifties, averaging just under fifty in
(35:53):
a one day International going in astrike rate at eighty one. Brilliant fielder.
It doesn't bowl much anymore, butit was a handy spinner or handy
off spinner. And just I haven'tgot into the captain. I think we've
got to go McCullum probably considering hebuilt that's the generation. Captain's my team.
(36:14):
But that's not a criticism of Kineor even Stephen flaming that we had
to made its team. But McCallumis a talis mannic captain, a guy
who everybody wants to follow, Whowant who want you know who, people
want them to lead, And yeah, he would be my first choice for
captain. Cool. All right,well there is either moving on. I
(36:35):
think this one's going to be asequally easy those. Of course, the
all time leading one day International runscorer just almost nine thousand one day International
runs, top score one hundred andeighty one, not out twenty one hundred
and fifty one fifties averaging forty sevenand a half strike rate eighty three.
That is, of course, RossTaylor not a problem, incredible and age
(37:00):
so well into the like the wallsunder a dramatic drop, he just plugged
away did his work was just reallyreally good for a really really long time.
Real key lynch pin in the successof that sort. Absolutely a lot
of a lot of a lot ofNew Zealand achieved over the past decade,
in particular as being on the buttof Ross Taylor. All Right, I
(37:22):
know this one is where we're goingto start getting a little bit interesting.
It's not just going to be listeningto the two errands agree with each other
about how good Kiwi batsman are.I've got a bit of a left field
one for for number five, andthat is I'm going to go with Martin
Crow as the number five. Iyeah, no, no, no,
(37:49):
alright, well let me let mejust make my case and then and then
we'll go. We'll go with otheroptions. So the reason I'm going Martin
is so we're looking at his numbers. First off, nearly five thousand one
day runs, four hundred and thirtyfour fifties nearly averaged forty strike rate of
seventy two. And this was inan era when I'm sorry to say Kiwi
(38:13):
fans, but you guys weren't verygood played in the eighties. So a
lot of those ones where you're talkingabout pure volume, you can scale that
right back. And I think thirtyeight playing in the eighties is batting four
equivalent. It's an average in likeforty five forty six these days. It
actually paid me to be on thecontrary side of Martin Crow because I'm a
(38:37):
big fan of his, But Ijust I'm sort of learning a little bit
more towards somebody like we made aleft handry. Now I was looking at
somebody like a Henry Nichols. Youreckon. Henry Nichols has done enough to
warrant an all time spot. Well, I've think it's a pretty good record,
(39:00):
oh no doubt. But he's onlyplayed the sixty six games. We've
got quite a few ahead of himin terms of terms of tenure. So
Nichols sixty six games, seventeen hundredruns, one hundred thirteen fifties going into
strite rate of eighty average of thirtyfive. Now, I just looked what
(39:21):
he brings to their team. He'sat attacking a game changer in that middle
order for them. I just thinkyou really want to have some way em
coming up the tempo win that inthat middle order. A number guy who
may be possibly a little bit highin the order for him, but who
(39:42):
I would have no problem putting outthere would be someone like Chris Cans.
Well, I've got Cans, butI've got him next because I've got well,
I've got two big hitting all rounders. As in my thoughts next,
which is why I wasn't too fastwithout having another sort of you know,
not plodder, but another sort ofbatsman just to keep things ticking along because
I know I've got some some hittingdown the order, which is why I
(40:06):
was leading towards towards Crow. AndI think when you look at him,
and here's something that I didn't realizeuntil I started the research from here.
Crow actually made it like in thatera to number two and I'm thinking,
that's probably got to be Viv,Like there's the one behind Viv Richards for
sure, And you know, Ijust can't make an argument against that when
(40:28):
you you know, when you we'vetalked about a lot and we've done these
is that we've given a lot offavor to batters that carry struggling teams.
And as you know, I don'twant to disrespect New Zealand in any way,
but during that era, that wasexactly what Martin Crow was doing.
He was he was legitimizing a sidethat it wasn't for him. Is probably
(40:50):
you know, there are a fewguns short of an arsenal there. You
know, your your argument to mehas swayed me back that way, because
I certainly had Martin Prowl undercoins generation, but I was looking maybe being a
little bit funky at times trying toto rejink something that's not really there.
So Martin Crowe, you probably wanthim coming in a little bit higher,
but certainly you get handled bad.It could be the option maybe that we
(41:14):
could flip Taylor, who is abit more of a naturally dynamic hitter,
and have Crow being in that fourspots, similar to maybe how Australia use
Smith and Lavishing at three and fouras the guys that they usually like to
read, you know, to steadythe innings, and then you could go
with you know, and there's noissues Taylor will find the boundary. So
(41:37):
there might be a case that weflip that around and we go Taylor at
five four and just so you know, there's more opportunity for Taylor to be
bad deeper in the innings. Yeah, well, if you're happy with that,
I think we could probably move on. Go under Chris Cannes. Yeah,
well yeah, well Chris Gays,I've got six. I don't think
(41:59):
there's too much argument there. Nearlyfive thousand runs, four hundreds, twenty
six fifties, averaging twenty nine strikerate of eighty eighty four. I remember
him playing just some absolutely crushing inningsagainst US at times has always talked about
we come out and the commentators thatimmediately go, we've got to be careful
(42:19):
here. Played in the he dabutin the big the early nineties and as
a strike career strike rate in theeighties, that's that's not bad going.
And obviously the flip side of thatis he's got two hundred and one One
Day International wickets at thirty two andlike we've that at four or five,
six and open violin. Yeah youso, yeah, he's in the team
(42:40):
for sure. And he's another talismanicguy as well. So you'll imagine,
you know, let's say McCullum doesn'tget out and you get down there and
you've got McCullum on a tear,you know, eighty ninety not out heading
into the clothes, and then youknow, and we'll lose a wicket,
and then Chris Cannes comes in.So you've got McCullum team off from one
end and Chris can shopping me outwith that just cannon that he'd bring to
(43:02):
the creatile man. Good luck,good luck closing to that cool easy,
there we go, nicely done.This is where we are going to probably
diverge a little bit, although probablynot too much because I've really because I've
got a wicket keeper opening in thebatting. I've gone five bowlers. Yeah,
(43:23):
well I've got another bowler here.I've gone it was an all rounder,
but probably more of a bowling allrounder, but still quite a dangerous
heater. I've gone Jacob Orum.He's there one, two, three,
four, five six, seventh alltime. We could take it for New
Zealand. One hundred and seventy threeweekets of twenty nine, strike rate of
(43:46):
thirty nine. I just remember beingagain a real big late order finish your
forum. He'd come out and justhit bound like and that's probably one of
the reason I've got those ways.Not only is he's a really good bowler,
but he's a guy that would findfind boundary. So the average is
are particularly impressive. It's only twentyfour, but he's got thirteen fifties one
(44:07):
hundred by the way, and he'sabsolutely murdered us. But the strike rate
of eighty six when you started yourcareer in the early thousands, that's the
bit that I'm leaning towards. That'swho I've got it at seven as a
bit of a big, tall,hard hitting finisher, and I remember him
having quite a number of like justI don't remember off the top of my
(44:31):
head exactly, but I just rememberhim being very effectual in World Cups as
well, a couple of really importantinnings. Yeah, I would have no
problem with that. I was Iwas looking at another a sort of a
different type of an all round.I was looking at Chris Harris. Oh
(44:53):
yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Chris Harris. I remember him not
as dynamic as Jacob or but whatI liked about Chris Harris is just the
way the way he could control andinnings with the ball. He was the
guy who'd come on and just wouldgo for no runs because nobody could pick
(45:15):
him, able to give you noplace you couldn't have hit him off the
square, and absolutely brilliant fielder,a wonderful a wonderful player with a bat
lowered down the order as well,the thing that would would tipped me away
from that. I do remember Harrisbeing yeah, quite a handful of times.
(45:35):
But he only has a strike rateof sixty seven, so I think
it's probably at seven that's probably nothigh enough. He's also while he was
wildly he sort of really lacked penetrationin terms of taking because I suppose it's
not a big deal because we're gonnahave a really good bowling attack. But
he's strike rates in the fifties andhis average is thirty seven. But he's
(45:58):
looking at them from the point ofviewers. He's a guy in coming,
and he'll he'll tie up an endfor you whe you can attack from the
other end. I just I thinkwhen you've got guys like maybe like Astall,
who's going to probably do that sortof job, that I think Astell's
a bit more of a bit moreof a liability in doing that sort of
job, because well, if you'regoing to go so we've got we've got
(46:20):
cans at six, we've got allanother all round at seven, we're going
to have Vtory will be in theresomewhere. So then we've got three more
quicks. So we've actually got fiftyovers before you even get to Astall or
Vatory in terms of a bowling pace. So I think that at that point
(46:40):
as well, you want a bitto string your bowl in terms of in
terms you're batting, because some ofthese guys might not get like when you
when you've got your three quicks,your three main quicks and VATORI. There's
forty overs. We've picked Cans andCans all most likely Bowl ten, So
you know there's I think you've gotto have a little bit of difference with
(47:00):
your with the bat and in termsof that, I think if if it's
coming down between Orham or will bringmore for you from the point of view,
that he will, He'll find theboundary. Yeah, he'll finish,
He'll finish it for you. Soyeah, I think I think Harris is
the kind of guy that if wewere worried about it, we could maybe
he's a guy that could go upto you four. If we lost like
(47:22):
two for ten in the first threeovers, you might consider putting Harris up
there to just sort of steady theship and then you know, leaving your
big hitters. But I think withwhat we've got up there, that with
Williamson and Crowe and then Taylor asthree four five, you'd be he's his
skill separately, doesn't mesh with theteam that we've got. Yeah, well,
(47:44):
Jacob Kill Richard Hadley, Yeah,moving on, I was gonna say,
I think right now we're going tobe squabbling about the batting lineup for
the bowlers. Because but let's talkabout Sir Richard one hundred and fifty eight
(48:04):
wickets an average of twenty one.Let me say that they're getting for you
twenty one. Again, played inan era where New Zealand were not strong.
There was not a lot of depthbehind them. There was maybe two
or three other players that you wouldsay were genuine international quality when you're comparing
(48:27):
it to some of those people inthe rest of the world. And this
guy, just through sheer force ofwill, would keep New Zealand in games.
And then we go to the otherside. Four fifty years an average
of twenty one, strike rate ofseventy five when you start your career in
nineteen seventy three and ended in nineteenninety seventy five is good going for a
tail ender. This is a guythat came out and knew his job and
(48:49):
did it well. So like weall thought, Brett Lee was pretty handy.
I think Brett Lee average is twentyone or twenty two with the bat
when in the one days, yeah, next, yeah, yeah, all
time leading we could take her inone day in the Nationals Fort New Zealand
(49:10):
two hundred ninety five matches, threehundred and five wickets average of thirty one
and best of five for seven.He was on fire that day. His
batting isn't as probably thick as whatit is in the in Test matches.
We know he can hold a stick, but seventeen he averages four fifties highest
(49:30):
of eighty three. But he's battingat nine folks and his strike rate is
you know, in the mid eighties. So you know he's going to come
in and just go and mind you, he was a he was a rubbish
bat when he started, which isall going to be taken into account,
like he improved a lot reckon ifyou just if he did his numbers in
the last even you know, fiveyears or six years, he's ten years
(49:52):
of his career, it'll be alot different. But you know, if
you've got him coming at nine strikeand at eighty and he knows what he
needs to do, there's nothing wrongwith that, Shane Bond, So what's
that? That would be ten?Right, So eleven's going to be interesting
because we've got a couple of bowlersthat pick from there. But yeah,
(50:13):
Shane Bond is definitely in that bunchagain. Yeah, your thoughts you thought
Hadleys was impressive. Shane Born eightymatches one hundred and forty seven wickets at
twenty twenty point eight six for nineteeneleven times he took four wickets or more.
He has a strike rate under thirty. The world is a cruel,
(50:38):
cruel place for robbing us of moreShane Born. Shane Bond is probably going
to be in the discussions. Idon't think he's going to quite make It
will be interesting once we get afew of our other other hosts here to
have a really robust discussion. ButI'm sure Shane Bond's name will come up
when we do our all time worldeleven for a one day international side.
(51:00):
Those are powerfully impressive numbers, theyare, And anybody who's seen Shane Bond
ball, he scared people. God, he scared the very best batsman in
the board. At his he wastaking chunks out of the Australian cricket team.
When the Australian cricket team was abulletproof in that middle two thousands era,
(51:23):
no one, no one could touchthe Australian batting lineup except for Shane
Shane Bonne would like Shane Bond's takinga hat tricks twice. Two hat tricks
against Australia was just the one thatdon't remember the second one, the first
one, oh hat tricks, lowball, we haven't here, that's when we
that's from Shane Borne knocking over people. Yeah, hundred s Shane Burne walks
(51:47):
into this side. It really isa shame that we didn't see more of
Shane Borne and when he out downto number eleven. So we've got a
few names. I think we're probablygoing to end up on the same one,
but I'm I'm going to start withsome guys for mine that didn't make
one number eleven, because I'm prettysure we're landing on the same spot.
Tim south just misses for me.Yeah, Southy, really impressive a career
(52:15):
that's still going, mind you,two hundred and ten week its thirty three
best of seven for thirty three.What a game that would have been a
bit expensive, which is one ofthe things that sort of for mine,
kept him out of my squad goingit just under six and over. For
his career is is a lot.It's not a T twenty that's that's a
lot, and it's a career that'sgone for a while, so he's evolved
(52:36):
with the game and he just Idon't know if i'd want him bowl my
death overs. So I had himprobably is I had another quick, So
he's probably my my my third quickto come in the sword. Kyle Mills
was probably the next guy I wasgoing to pick other than the guy currently
have at eleven. It was atoss up for me. Look, he
(53:00):
certainly in the consideration his records outstanding. The guy I've got at number eleven
is well, I've got one more. I've got one more, almost made
it. So that's who I had, Cale Mills two hundred forty week.
It's of twenty seven, a shrike, raid of thirty four, best of
five for twenty five nine times,took four weekets some more. Very very
good player for New Zealand for along time. The guy I had the
(53:21):
next, as would say twelve.It's not the twelfth man, but he
would have been the next guy Iwent to you and Chatfield, Yeah,
which you might be a name atsurprises and people. That's a numbers numbers
are fantastic guys like this is youknow, played in the late seventies through
to the late eighties. He wasRichard Hadley's one and only trusty side keeper
(53:44):
of the ball. Yeah, thatwas it. There was in both Test
matches and one day as there wasHadley, then there was chat Field,
and then there was take your pick. Yeah you got through, You got
through Hadley, you got through Chatfield. You were scoring runs, yeah,
pretty much chat Field one hundred andforty week it's twenty five point eight four
four halls, one five wicket hall. You know, not really anything to
(54:06):
write home with about. He didhit six fours throughout his one hundred and
fourteen matches. Yeah, but yeah, he was dead bowl really like it's
one of those guys that you notrequired to really pay a lot of attention
to. So until I came in, like I knew he was. You
know, he was the right handman. He was there, you know,
he had He's Hadley's robin to Hadley'sbatman. But see, actually go
(54:30):
and look into the deep guve onsome of these you go, actually,
he's a damn good player. Sohe would have been the guy would have
picked next. I think for thoseof you that are listening at home,
you can probably figure out where we'veboth gone for our number eleven, the
world's best number eleven. Of course, because the world's best number eleven,
and that is Trent Bolt one hundredand eighty seven wickets twenty three. He's
(54:52):
his average seven to thirty four orhis best numbers. He's gone past four
weekets fifteen times again, a strikerate under under thirty. You don't talk
about his batting because it's not reallyworth mentioning. He's still swing a stick.
He'll swing a stick. They wererelying on Trent Bulti makes and runs
(55:12):
in that scene and they've had areal bad day. Yeah, yeah,
I'm pretty happy with that, unlessyou've got an We were always sort of
there was these gray areas that Ifigured we're going to have to flesh up.
But I was probably happy to gowith with asked all at top and
more and happy to you know,you've got to have Shane Bond in the
(55:37):
team. Absolutely, he was.Honestly, he was the third guy I
had picked. It was it wentMcCollum, it went Hadley, it went
was something like that. I wasMcCullum, Williams and Taylor Hadlee Bond.
That was my first five, accordingto liszt. He So just running through
that side again for all of youthat's been paying attention we've got Brent McCullum
(56:00):
as captain and Wi could keeper atthe top of the order. Nathan Astall
is his partner, Kane Williamson isat three, Martin Crows at four,
Ross Taylor at five, Chris Can'ssix, Jacob Warot seven, Richard Hadley
at eight, Denny Viltory at nine, Shane Bond at ten, and Trent
Bolt beats out quite a few veryworthy alternatives to get into that number eleven
(56:23):
spot. I don't think we couldreally go away from Bolt for that number
eleven spot of what he brings tothe team. You know, he's the
left arm, he swings the ball, he's a great field as well.
Everybody forgets an absolutely brilliant fields man. Oh yeah, so yeah, when
(56:44):
you throw all of those things intogether, he was just a little bit
more than what the other number elevenscould offer us. Right, done,
another one done. Thank you verymuch for indulging us for this episode.
We've only got a few left togo, unless I've forgotten some, I
believe we've just got four more,including our World eleven side. So we're
(57:07):
going to do Bangladesh next, whichis a team that you know, while
they've struggled mightily at the Test arena. They've they've grown into at points,
especially with some of the you know, not quite the new generation, but
sort of that previous generation, intoa side that was certainly capable of hanging
with the big boys in one dayinternational creet from They on their day are
(57:30):
a formidable team. Yeah, theyreally are. So Bangladesh is who were
going to cover next? Imagine thatwant to be a little bit more straightforward
as they didn't start until early eighties. Oh they were, that's right.
One they played in the bit longlonger in one day cricket than they didn't
test the Test cricket. One waspretty straightforward because they only arrived in year
two thousands. So I take thatback. It might not be as as
(57:52):
straightforward as I imagined, but thereare some definitely some good names in that
Bangladesh seward. So we'll get thatout of the way, and then I
believe that leaves India the hosts,and then Australia, who I know is
going to be fun for all ofus. I still have it narrowed down
to an eleven. I think I'vegot about eighteen I've got on my list.
(58:14):
I've narrowed it to that and thenit's sort of split hairs. It's
about the splitting the hairs. Ithink we pretty much know at least three
or four certainties for that team.Don't know to go into it now,
but we'll talk about that at anyappropriate time. And then after that we'll
finish off with our World eleven leadinginto the World leading into the World Cup
with that will be a fun one. There are going to be some there
(58:37):
are going to be some discussions there. We're going to try and get as
many on as we can as well. Hopefully we'll have Towney back and Glenn
or should be here. If he'snot here, we're really going to be
asking questions again. He'll rock upfor the world. He'll be here for
the world. All right, guys, thank you very much for joining us
tonight. We've got plenty of cricketsstill coming this way the March. The
World Cup continues on. The Australiansare playing a white ball tournament. It's
(59:00):
it's all happening. We're getting readyfor very the big Bash draft is not
too far away. The smell ofthe smell of cricketers in the air,
oh yeah, it was brought andsunny the last couple of days here,
it's coming some high in Vader onthe Cyphon. All right, guys,
thank you very much. Enjoy yourweek. We'll be back next week with
more creating goodness, but until then, by for now. Over Sports Social
(59:27):
podcast Network EFS is Welcome to Wrexhamreturns for a brand new season, streaming
exclusively on Disney Plus. Wrexham asa club, as a town are the
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(59:49):
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