Episode 176 -A Good Week To Be an Aussie

It has been a great week to be an Aussie Cricket fan. Wrapping up a successful tour to New Zealand and watching the Poms go down on their tour to India. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Episode Transcript

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see Votaphone dot I E s lastterms Cloud Chase SAT. Welcome back everyone

(01:42):
to another episode of Two Slips inlike a Galley. We're all here,
We're all here again. I've gotas with me and I've got cry get
back Mike. What's going on?Good to beat back Gaus And yeah,
it's been a little wall at theother priorities uh have consumed me over the
last few weeks. It good tobe back with you boys and talking a

(02:04):
bit of cricket, which is alwaysfun. Yeah, and we've got plenty
of cricket to talk about. Howare you this week? As I am
on the top of the world thatthere's point in time things. I've had
a very interesting day, so I'mready to get into this, haven't.
I've been actually seeing you on Saturdayand said we need to have a podcast.
Yes we do. It's a goodday to be an Aussie. I

(02:24):
mean we've we've wrapped up the Testseries against the Kiwi's. I believe were
Whitewashington didn't we we want everything overthere. We didn't lose one of any
of the white ball games either,So yeah, it was a pretty good
tool for us. Yeah. Andthe interesting thing for it is was making
this point to a Kiwi colleague atwork. Is it for a team that

(02:46):
is so highly rated around the world, whenever they turn up against Big Brother,
it's just not happening for him.It hasn't happened fine for quite a
while. What twenty eleven was thelast time they won a Test against Us?
And then I think it's that thelate eighties before me, maybe early
nineties, yea early nineties. Ithink they were talking about it merv Hughes

(03:07):
Bold the ball that lost him thetest matcher went for a leaky Yeah.
But yeah, they interesting comments comingout of that Test match afterwards as well,
So I was waiting somebody that kindof speaking interesting comments were also.
The other thing that we enjoy isAustralian cricket fans is the fact that the

(03:28):
poem's lost. It's almost against me. Well, I've said it before on
a couple of episodes that I kindof was hoping that they might figure out
a way to get up and reallyjust stick in India and finally put a
dent in that incibility. They've goneat home, but it wasn't to be,
no, So we're going to startoff with that. We're going to

(03:49):
get into having a chat about basball versus the Indians and whether or not
it's a subcontinent reality, and thenwe'll get into talking about the trans Tasman
tests all that's coming up after this. All right, First off the ranks,
we're going to have a chat aboutEngland v India. It came in

(04:10):
with quite a lot of media highyou know, for probably for some of
the wrong reasons as well. Imean, it is the new fad bass
ball that's been going around and evenwell, to be honest, everyone sort
of wants it to fail because theEnglish media wanted to fail because nothing English
media likes more than kicking their ownteam when they're down. But so they're
happy to hot fly high while it'sworking, but if it's not working at

(04:33):
the first to turn around and giveit to them. So I can sort
of understand a little bit of thepressure being on the England boys heading into
this. But as we've discussed,ad nausea and they don't really do themselves
any favors they went in. Theywere talking a big game and to be
quite honest, this was probably thebest opportunity a team was going to get

(04:54):
to to throne India in a longtime. And can one could nowhere be
considered to be their strongest team onpaper A bit like when they came out
here and beat us in that series. There was that was definite shades of
that. There were quite a lotof stars that were in and out and
Colon didn't play a test and youknow, Judasia missed a couple Ashwan,

(05:16):
did he miss a test or justmissed part of a test? I missed
just part of a test, ButI'm not sure that. Did he get
picked for all of them? Thatwould be my question. I think he
did miss actually miss a test.You know obviously Richard part hasn't been available.
It's been Yeah, they rested boom. Yeah, so been in and
out and have you ever looking ata chance to really plain that scout?

(05:42):
You know? And England the lastteam to go and do it, I
believe was that twenty eleven series orjust carved him up. Alistair, Cook,
Peterson and Trot were instrumental in beatingIndia. So they were the last
team to do it, and youknow they were well you'd hoped that they
would have come over there with alot of competent but as the series sort
of progressed, what was coming outof their mouths when they were losing was

(06:03):
all, we got closer than whatyou thought we were going to get.
So it's like, you guys showedyou didn't we Are you playing just to
be in the contest or you're playingto win? Like I don't understand,
Like no one comes out and goesall we were close. So you know,
we'll chalk that up as a win. Like a team that's going over
with aspirations of winning a Test series, doesn't you know if Zimbabwe went to

(06:26):
India and nearly got there, youmight let them go, all right,
Yeah, they kept India honest forfive tests. You know that we ended
up being four to one, butthey kept him honest. You might take
that. But England, who waswalking over there looking to win a Test
series keeping him honest or doing betterthan you thought. When you're talking to
the media is and promising us thisfabulous news style of cricket that basball is

(06:48):
is going to be adaptable to allconditions, which just did anyone remember a
game where basball really took off atall? I certainly saw the flaws when
they were playing ridiculous shots to getout, but I never really saw even
with the big scores that were made, and they had a couple of big
hundreds in this series, like olipopelygot that two hundred and ninety four that

(07:09):
he got, Duckett got one hundred. Now Pope got a double hundred.
Duck It got a big hundred.That was probably the closest you saw to
it. But Duckett doesn't play anyother way. He isn't actually capable of
playing a genuine test match. AndI say that in inverted commas innings,
that's just what he does. It'swhether he last long after score that many
runs. Yeah, exactly, andhe got. I think the whole bazzball

(07:31):
concept has been shown to be nothingmore than just hot air, essentially because
it doesn't translate to every condition.I wouldn't say it's hot air. I
think it's it's obviously you can playit in specific conditions, and it's probably
a front running thing. Yeah,think about it. If you get your
nose. So they take to steala Formula one analogy. You get yourself,

(07:54):
you park it on pole, youget yourself a gap, and then
the way that the sport right,you just you do that and then that
gets you there. I think that'sbasball if you get your nose in front
where you can boss the game orin specific conditions. Obviously we've seen that
bas ball works a lot better whenthey're chasing because they know what they need.
So I think I don't think it'shot air, but I think it's

(08:16):
certainly not a play style for allseasons. It's got its place when executed
well, like you saw how Englandjust absolutely decimated New Zealand when they first
came out and did it, soit's certainly got its place. It certainly
when it's executed, can be veryentertaining to watch. But the assertion that
yeah, we can, you canthrow caution to win packet in a suitcase,

(08:37):
take it to the four corners ofthe earth, and then just drop
it in any situation of any test, in any conditions and it works for
you has been proven to be afallacy. It's an excuse for a poor
cricket's mentality. That's exactly what Iwas saying the last time around. It's
a it's what it is. It'saccountability free cricket. It's you. You

(09:00):
don't develop the ability to test yourselfin any grind situation or any type of
mental attritional state that you might bein cricket, and certainly it happens,
and it will happen against the bestteams, and it's happened in this Test
series against India, where you're putunder enormous mental you know, strain,

(09:26):
and your excuse is that, okay, well, I don't care about the
result. I just care about theprocess, and I care about my strike
rate being one hundred and forty hundredand fifty. Yeah, I care about
looking good while losing. It doesn'tIt just doesn't. Against the better teams,
it will not work because the Australiasof the world, the Indians of

(09:52):
the world, will grind you,and they will grind you to a pulp.
And that's what's happened in the lastfour tests of this series. Yea,
absolutely that is the case. We'retalking about the Australians. There are
times where bas Ball certainly got themon top, but it's when it becomes
a grind, where did you go. And I can tell you right now
that if England were able to reinit back in and put gears on bas

(10:15):
ball, they probably win that seriesthree to one. And basball only works
for one element of the game,batting, and that's batting. It doesn't
translate to any other part. Sothe fact that the fact that they took
well, in my opinion, tooktwo bits of spinners who did okay in

(10:37):
the first Test, did okay inthe second Test, but they could not
compete after that point. And thereisn't a country in the world, the
exception being Nathan Lyme, but wedon't have anyone to back him up.
There's no country in the world that'sgoing over to wind ear and nobody,
nobody. Our fast bowlers are goodenough to jag early wickets there, you

(11:00):
know, because they are the bestin the world. I just mean,
it's not like I get what you'resaying that bits and pieces of spinners,
but to sort of rag on themfor not keeping up with the Indian spinners
seems a little disingenuous because there isn'tany there's no there's no players on the
planet. You'd be taking a worldeleven worth of spinners. And even then,
what other is he take? NathanLyon, which other spinner are you
taking to India to try and keepup with the Ashlands and the Judaisha's.

(11:22):
I can't even Yeah, the onlyother spinner you want to take me Indian
one or maybe Ration They seem that, Yeah, but Rash you cahn't.
I think maybe he's probably got himselfway too entrenched in that white ball style.
I actually think he would bowl toofast on Indian tracks. He just

(11:43):
become like a skiddy and medium pacerworld or you. But you don't need
a guy who spins the ball overthere to look at Jadeja or what he
does Cuonerman, he can't spin it, you know, Kuduin wouldn't be able
to shape a boomerang. No,I was making a go sideways in that

(12:05):
gap, but but he wasn't.Really it was the ball that you thought
was going to spin and didn't.That's the one that did the most damage.
And that's the one that jadays yourely on's career that does. But
you asked Rabbi Jadeja, but theAustralians asked him, what do you do?
You know? How do you doit? Blah blah, I just
put the ball two foot on offstump and see what happens. You know,

(12:28):
sometimes it will spin, sometimes itwon't, Sometimes it might go the
other way. He just bowls theball. He doesn't do anything flash.
So for I get I get reallyincensed at this talk. Oh you've got
to have booming spinners. You've gotto have blokes that you know, turn
it like warning you don't. Allyou need is a guy who's just going

(12:52):
to put it on the spot continuallyover there consistency and let the pitch or
let natural verya do the work becausethat's what works for them. But it
suits, it suits their style tohave a guy like the Jajah who plays
second bananas to somebody like Ashman orplays second banana like coolpectation in the back

(13:15):
end of that scene, and likeyou look at the improvement in that guy
he is. He showed what youactually can do if you do have a
big, booming spinner on those sortof wickets. Some of the nonsense he
was pulling out when once that ballhit the deck and ripped, it was
just like, oh yeah, wellbut again I think it's more the deck
that was doing it for you.I don't think it's his like if he

(13:37):
came to if he come to theGammer, he's not going to be turning
its sideways like he did in Absolutelyhe's not. He's just not. He
just doesn't get the revolutions. Butout of the ones that they played Jadejah,
Ashwood and Cool, he's the onethat's probably got the biggest degree of
turning. Yeah yeah, yeah.And then of course you've got got to
tell as well who who's been freakon those wigans as well? So I

(14:03):
yeah, I get it. Youknow, we all get this, you
know, really glorified stance about havingbig We've got to have big turners that
go into all this sort of stuff. You can do it you need that's
exactly right, and do it consistently. And I think England, but I
think England really went down the it'shard. Look, it's really hard to

(14:24):
be judgmental on these because they're youngguys as well, on their first major
tours and stuff like that. Ilook at somebody like the guy who would
what's the off spinner, I wouldwill assume he's an off spinner because I
look at that action and I justdon't see that succeeding anywhere else except on

(14:46):
slow turning wickets. He's not takableanywhere else. I actually liked Hartley.
I think Harley I should look at. Obviously it's probably gonna go back to
Jack Leach. Well, we weretalking about this previously. But I think
he's a guy that's probably you know, put his hand up to go.
You know, I might be wortha bit of a trundle. I think
he offers a bit more than Leach. And I think he's with Leach.

(15:09):
He's got sort of that reputation.It's go harded him early and he's probably
not going to hurt you unless youdo something done. And I just think
even if Leach is bowling, well, no one's threatened by Leach. But
we went we went over this lasttime. Going back to the Indians,
I think subn Gill has quieted afew doubters. His positioned the scene was
a little bit, a little bitunder stress. The hell is doubting him,

(15:30):
I think not whiteball cricket. He'scertainly in a league of his own,
but his test average would suggest thathe hadn't really taken the most of
his opportunity. He's only averaging aboutthirty eight at the start of the series.
He's made two hundreds now. ButI'm free that Caley jas Wow,
isn't he a very special look goodplayer the factory of Indian cricketers that is

(15:54):
churning out some good ones. ButI think we kind of touched on his
previously in the last podcast. Let'ssee how he goes overseas first. You
know, this is like his breakoutseries. I think he played against Bangladesh
or something like previously, or SriLanka or whoever it happened to be.
Let's see how that game that he'sgot translates. Well, it's a harder,

(16:17):
firmal wicket. What I found impressiveabout Joys bowl without making a big
song and dance about having this revolutionarynew approach to test cricket, he went
out and out basball. I wandsand said, he just went out and
played cricket. You didn't come outand go my mission is I'm going to
go out and be super aggressive.You know. There was no sort of
public service announcement, There was nolabel whacked on it. There was no

(16:38):
like big interview about this is howI'm going to do things. He just
went out and did what he did? You know what? You know what
he did do? He whacked abad ball and there was plenty on offer.
And that's that's all you have todo is take advantage of that of
that bad ball, and there wasplenty, and he did. There was
no science to it. There wasno over exuberance or as you say,

(17:02):
you know, any basballish you knowthoughts going through his head. It was
just that's crap, I'm whacking it. And he did and like he no
respect. He looks at star Lookwhoever's criticized children Gil it needs and they're
absolute head wrecked because he is class. He is quality, class personified.

(17:25):
He's a guy you are going tohave to ride the you know, the
ebbs and flows with and will probablydiscuss it with Marnus as well. But
you've got a guy who is exceedinglygood and looks classy. You stick with
it, you don't. You don'tjust go, oh well, and Jee's
had five innings where he hasn't scoredany runs. We better get rid of

(17:48):
him. You know what it is? I hate do you know what?
Really hates that sort of mindset?And I say this, we have a
bit tongue in cheek because you know, we are essentially part of the you
know, the sports media umbrella.I mean we're a very minuscule part,
but we are. That's what weare. But the current climate of sports
reporting is what's caused that criticism becauseit's a twenty four hour news cycle and

(18:14):
there isn't car crashes or murders orbreaking enters or natural disasters or anything I
like that to talk about for thenormal twenty four new out news cycle to
do go and sink their teeth intoso for them to be generating their income,
generating the clicks, generating the peoplelooking at the ads that are flashing
up on all the things they needto be churning out content. And so
they'll look at that and go,oh, sugar and gills, he's only

(18:34):
scored one fifty in his last santasticand that's so we can find some irrelevant
and to quote in this story.That's the worst is that they get these
people who would not know first classcricket from their ring hole. I said,
they just plot stuff out. It'sfinding stuff to talk about and it's

(18:55):
just all right, yeah, yeah. If we go back into the seventies
where you people were watching the sixo'clock news or reading in the newspaper and
all on the radio where you didn'thave sports coverage from sun up to sundown
and everything in between. We don'ttalk about that like that doesn't become a
thing that comes a thing of we'retalking a couple of tours, but half

(19:17):
a dozen Test innings or a coupleof Test games, we're looking at that
going should What we should be sayingis look at what should wear girl?
At what twenty three twenty four hasdone so far in his career. Actually,
this guy has bought himself a truckloadof credit to give himself some breathing
space for the downtimes. Because attwenty two twenty three you're not the finished

(19:38):
product. People are going to workyou out. And then what happens is
at twenty two to twenty three,when you batting was super easy six months
ago, how are you going tomake it super easy again? And then
what we should be talking about ishow good shouldn't Gill going to be at
twenty eight, twenty nine, thirtythirty one when most batsmen start hitting their
their peak. When you look atjust the absolute nonsense that he's been able

(20:02):
to do at this age, especiallylike white ball cricket has definitely been far
better than his red bull career upuntil now. Can you imagine how much
of what a freak white wall cricketthat guy is going to be in half
a dozen years when he's hitting thatat that free a free sixty, he's
any free now an they're getting better, So yeah, you're one hundred percent

(20:23):
right anyone. That's And it's thesame thing with Cameron Green as well,
Like the class is obviously there.Obviously he hasn't. He hasn't landed at
the same the peaks that shouldn't Gill'sgot, but anyone watching him can see
that there is stuff to work withthere, So just let the guy work
it out. He's class, youknow. And look, you know,

(20:47):
you look at a guy like Marnus, but there's even people calling for Marnus's
head before that ninety and probably stillare now. You look at the way
he started his test carey. Hewas the top batsman in the world,
like world ranked number one for Ithink it was five quarters in a row,

(21:10):
so that was over two and ahalf years. I think, which
other way is he going to go? Yeah? Like I think there was
time. He can't go any otherway bar down. There was certainly conversation
to be concerned about the way hisform was trending, But a lot of
people forget so that in some reallytough batting situations, like he got to

(21:32):
like bringing up he's only got twofifties in his last However, many but
those two fifties have got work likeroads. They were some really difficult batting
conditions that he had to go andwork his way through. I like to
look at Marnus from the perspective now, like I personally think we've probably seen
Pete Marnas, but that's not tosay that Marnus isn't a great contributor for

(21:53):
this. We haven't seen Pete Martin. I think. I think that I
think that year, maybe a yearand a half ago, where he just
you couldn't get him out and hewas just making runs for fun. That's
that's that's a very high level tomaintain, and he hasn't really been able
to do that. He's still veryearly in his creating career internationally. Yeah,

(22:15):
I would agree, but he's alsothere's also enough of a sample size
there to suggest that he's a he'sa He's not a guy who's going to
average fifty five over his career.The guy's going to probably finish somewhere between
forty five and forty eight. Andthat's and that's about fifty years. Yeah,
and look, that's I'm gonna unacceptable. I'm going to shove that for
a second. We'll finish off talkingabout basball versus India, because there's plenty

(22:37):
of that we can talk about overthe chapel, Hadley. So, but
you're right, there are things therewith Marnus. I think that's probably somewhere
in the middle. I don't Ithink probably that peak is probably where he
was, but I don't think thathe's There will be a lift in Marnus'
game. He will get back tobeing a guy that's churning out, you
know, a couple of hundreds everytwelve months sort of thing. But so
ducking back into bas ball, we'llreally talk about Wayland, India. Obviously

(23:00):
in greats there, they've they've broughton their B and C reserve players and
they've come in and they've they've defendedtheir home turf. And just a little
note on that, a lot ofthose B and C players aren't the B
and C players who come out toAustralia. This is a different group of
people, a different group. I'dlove to have the B and C players.

(23:22):
Yeah, for sure, we takea couple of them. We one
hundred. We would question and relatingto administration of England cricket, in if
like a sports administrator and the headof England Cricket, you are at the

(23:45):
moment accepting a team and accepting agroup of players that you're paying to play,
and effectively you're paying them to winthat that that would be your goal
as that administrator, to to wingames of cricket. Yeah, you're essentially
paying a group of players and astaff that is not necessarily and about would

(24:10):
come out and said this, weare not results driven. We are all
about the process and we are allabout improving individuals, games and the game
of cricket as a whole. IfI'm an administrator in England and I'm hearing
that and I'm paying these guys toplay, I would be pulling money left,

(24:36):
right and center. Absolutely the endof the day. Whatever it is,
whether it's bas ball or batting likeravel drafted or whatever, whatever strategy
that you're implementing, whatever new gameplan you're working out and let's not kick
around. Cricket's been around for along long time. There's not too many
different avenues you can go down.It's essentially twenty two yards of dead as

(25:00):
a red leather ball and a bigchunk of willow in your hand, and
then you run from end to endlike there's only certainly a certain room to
reinvigorate and reinvent the wheel, soto speak. England at the position they
were when Rob Key came in,I think that bas Ball was a godsend

(25:22):
England. Like we as I talkedabout earlier, England love. The England
media love to jump on their teamswhen they're down. There is the English
media live to kick their teams whenthey're down. That's what they do.
And I think that the initial burstof bas Ball, and especially the success
where they walloped New Zealand, reallygrabbed England's attention, like the English fans

(25:48):
attention at a time when cricket inEngland was very vulnerable. Now they've been
towled up in Australia all the time. They haven't even have won a Test
the lone A series since twenty ten. You know they're now not even winning
the games over here, their drawingseries. You know, they're bowing out

(26:11):
in the group stages of you know, PODi tournaments and T twenty tournaments.
I think this really helped grab thoseEngland fans and bring them back and become
invested in the game. But atsome point what the administrators need is Okay,
so you've got everyone eating out ofthe palm of your hand, now,
Ben, you know, Brendan Ben, Everyone's well, they love you,

(26:33):
but now it's time we need tobe winning games. We're supposed to
be winning, not losing games weresupposed to be winning, and I think
at this point that's what basball istrending towards. The Blitzkrieg is over.
People are aware of what's going onnow and as I said before, there
is absolutely no doubt in my mindthat if at times England could rain it

(26:56):
back in and play just conventional cricket, the win that ashes series three to
one. You know. Obviously NathanLyne getting injured didn't help, and there
were some selection issues that the Australianswent through, picking Marsh and Green when
they really should have gone either all. But there could be no doubt over
the course of the entire series.If you're going session by session, England
were the better side and it endedup being a too or draw and basball.

(27:22):
Some really reckless cricket play in thename of basball cost them dearly at
points where they should really have bossedthe game. So yeah, as an
England administrator, if they're coming outand saying that the results don't matter so
long as that where you know,what we want to do is safeguard test
cricket by making it appealing for themasses and everyone's really interested in watching watching

(27:44):
it because that's what we're doing.That's our primary goal. And if we
win games of cricket, that's great. But if we don't, at least
people are enjoying it, na,absolutely not. I'm not paying exorbitant amount
of the exorbitant amount of pounds thatI need to pay you all. So
you guys go out and literally playhit and giggle. You're going out there
and you're winning the cricket games.If you want to hit, play hitt
and giggle and win cricket games,fantastic. But if you're playing hit and

(28:08):
giggle and losing cricket games, andwe need to talk about what we're going
to do to fix that problem.But again it and to my point,
it only concentrates on one facet ofthe cricketing game, and that's batting.
You look at you look at theirbowling, you look at their fielding.
Especially in this recent series against India, they're devoid of any plan against any

(28:30):
batsman. Like, there's nothing like. They don't they don't have a plan
for their bowlers. They don't havea plan for their fielding. It's just,
oh, we're just gonna go withthe flow, with the two elements
of cricket, and that is onehundred percent right. You look at the
Australians, especially when we play India, there is a definity plan to a
Rat Kohli and you can see it. Everyone knows that Varat Coley knows what

(28:52):
we're doing. There's there's three slips, two galies a point and Hazelwoods bowl
on seventh or eighth start. Andalso who short covers for that one spoons?
Yeah, when we play over justin case there's natural deviation or variation
off the pitch, it slows upon him because he goes at the ball
hard. He scoops right, Sowe know that like every like we know

(29:15):
that, we prepare ourselves for that. You've got two facets of the game
which have avoid of any any sortof plan or any sort of there's no
tactics or you know they're not.It's it's basball with batting. So we're
going to give our batsman an excuse. When it comes to the poor bowlers

(29:38):
who can't get ten wickets in aTest match, it's your fault. You
didn't get the wickets. Now,don't you alone a crab? Don't you
actually think? But I mean,if we sit down and just coldly analyze
the let's talk about an England squadof let's say there there's sixteen or seven
best Test players at their very best, how many of them make a World

(30:00):
eleven Test cricket Test cricket very thevery best one at his best, Yes
he would, he would make itis Joe Route at his best, battling
verit Holy at his best. No, then he doesn't make the World eleven.

(30:23):
Name one other one, so youwouldn't. So I would be thinking
at their very very best, you'dhave a middle order three, four five
being Colei root Smith. Yeah,at the peak of at the peak of
their powers, Coli, that's threeSmith, that's four. Route that's fine
about Williamson. Now came now rightnow, came Williams is ahead of all

(30:44):
three ways as of today, Yeah, came Williamson. Cannot score runs against
the best Test nations. Oh yeah, he can't. That's a fair criticism.
He can't. That being said,Smith's in a in a it's just
hypothetically. If you're talking at thevery best that these players have ever been

(31:06):
in their lives. You're not talkingtoday, You're just talking all right,
active players playing at the peak oftheir powers. Roots are way better batsman
than came Williams. Coley and Smithwould be three four five in your side.
I'll probably grant that from the fromwe're going to base it on.
You know, came Williams and doesn'tscore well against center countries and stuff like

(31:26):
that, or against the best countries. I still think that if you I
struggle to think of any of thoseEnglish players Ben Stokes, peak Ben Stokes.
Maybe No, there is no peakBen Stokes. I'm not I haven't
seen a peak Ben Stokes. I'veseen a Ben Stokes that has moments,

(31:48):
and he has moments in tests.There is no peak Stokes. He has
not had a long run of formwhere he's dominated. Yeah, it's all
flashes and it's flash. It's alland some of it is incredible flash.
Don't get me wrong. He's wontest matches on his own, not debating

(32:08):
that, but is he won aseries on his own? He has.
That's actually a very interesting point nowthat you reflect on that, and we
do tend to think of the magicthings that he's done. He got whatever
it was in that edge Baston test, then after that did nothing well like
his exploits happened in a vacuum.And it's not like Coley when Coley came

(32:29):
out and scored four hundreds in fourTests against Australia, or Smith doing exactly
the same thing, has done itfor ten years straight. Yeah, even
like Broad and Anderson would go outand be good for a long periods of
time. You'll have games where youget that one hundred and thirty odder that
he's scored at the edge Bast andthen he can come out and quite conceivably

(32:50):
get a pair. It just doesn'tseem to be actually just on a touch
on men stage, I thought thathe was found very very wanting technically over
there a guy who is nineteen.Yeah, for a guy who you actually
had a bit of a reputation forplaying spin pretty well, he got found
out big time. So to thatpoint with Stokes, right, and this

(33:12):
speaks to the whole mentality of basball. Right, You've got a guy who's
captain of you all side who hasflashes of Briands. He's not consistent.
He has flashes. Is this wholeconstruct of basball an excuse for a poor

(33:35):
mentality that's been born of a cricketerwho is flashy but not consistent. I
think you can say that about alot of the English I think go even
further than that. What I thinkit is tell me this, since Joe
Root debuted for England, name oneother, just one genuine Test quality batsman

(34:01):
that has debuted after him. Theclosest I can get is Olipope and that
he didn't really become anything worthwhile inTest cricket until he was elevated three and
just told whack everything in basball.The only guy I would think would maybe
get there would be Harry Brook Maybeyeah, yeah, we're not. We

(34:24):
haven't, we haven't. He willprobably be the he might be the next
one, but yeah, to yourpoint, No, and that's what it
is. You have the oldest,wealthiest first class system in the world that
has generated zero Test cricketers. Testbatsman, I should say, and Roote

(34:47):
debuted in two thousand and eight.Nine. Yeah, so since two thousand
and nine, so what's that fifteenyears? In fifteen years, they have
not to come up with one onegenuine Test quality batsman since that time.

(35:07):
However, we flip it over toT twenty or one day in a national
cricket how many genuinely talented white ballcricketers have England managed to produce production line
and had dozens but once from Irelanddone at varying levels of success. But

(35:27):
they've had dozens of people that youwould genuinely say that is an ODO cricketer
or that is a T twenty Icricketer. And I think what Rob Key
and to a lesser extent, BenSoaks and Brendan McCullum have realized is we
have a glut of really talented ballstrikers that can't defend a straight ball.
Yep, let us just play agame style where we can get these talented

(35:50):
guys in because at the end ofthe day, hitting a cricket ball is
hitting a cricket ball. Just gethim in, get him in. Whites,
say you're hitting a red thing insteadof a white thing. But just
do the same thing always been doingand we'll live with the consequences. And
it's just what if I get outtrying to play a reverse switchhit on the
first ball of the Test, It'sall good. You've got a license.
We're telling you to do that.It's a game style and to be fair,

(36:14):
it's quite a clever game. Sothey've identified that there is massive skill
gaps in their batting like and we'renot much better. We haven't got these
sort of genuine it's skill gaps forsure, but there's a massive mental gap
and a lot of that is itis meant to and it's a mental capability
to be able to bat long periodsof time. This is what these guys

(36:37):
don't have and this is what Englandcricket is constructed over this last fifteen years
and they've constructed this mentality and tothe problem is as well, when you
look at county cricket. When I'vebeen following county cricket scores, they tend
to be one of two things.It'll be six hundred plays four eighty in
a draw, or it'll be oneeighty nine plays one seventy five that plays

(37:04):
one point twenty plays fifty in alike in a fourth inning. And so
it's either an absolute seeming mindfield whereno one can score any runs, or
it's a pitch where I could goand score runs. There's no middle ground.
So if you're playing on those ones, there's no room for you to
improve your game and actually survive atough period because the period is just incredibly

(37:30):
tough. And then when you goto the other side, you're not really
being tested because you're playing on aroad, which can be said the same
with our domestic systems as well.But whatever the reason is, whether it's
mental, no one wants to playtest cricket where it's you know, it's
a problem with the county cricket development, where it's a problem with the county
cricket facilities that haven't developed any Testbatsman that can do the grind and out

(37:55):
job in Test cricket for over fifteenyears and so quite smart. What they've
done is play to their strengths.But it's just become almost like this zelotry
now where it's okay, all right, we've got the guys in there.
We've shown you international crickets not ashard as you think it is. You
can succeed, but there seems tobe no development on those skill gaps.

(38:17):
But it's smart to a point.Yeah, it's smart to a point.
To a point. You've got thebin that you've told Zak Crawley you belong.
Look at what you can do.You're amazing. Now can you please
just stop nicking off all the time? But there isn't it's just just blaze
away. Ben Duckett, you're oneof the most destructive openers we've seen in
the history of English cricket. Butif you could just learn to play a

(38:38):
front foot defense every now and then, or you know that one that's sort
of dangling out a six stump whenthey've got four slips and two gullies,
just you know, just let thatone go. There's none of that.
They're developing cricketers for moments, they'renot developing cricketers for a long term Test
career. And a some and Metiaoutlets can use this line courtesy him myself.

(39:06):
But the way I think of itis that basball has been constructed out
of mediocrity. That is, thatis, to its core what it is.
I am yet to be proven anydifferent. I don't think I will
be proven to be to it tobe any different. It is constructed out

(39:27):
of an inability of English cricket tobe able to mentally see through a five
day game to the end and becompetitive. They just they are. They
are all about the moments in agame. At the end of the day.

(39:49):
Any other sporting administration in the worldwould be sacking their coach, sacking
their captain, probably aacking some oftheir administrators who are a part of that,
that sort of core group that's developedthis right now because it's not getting
results. Sport is a results drivenbusiness all around the world. Could you

(40:14):
imagine business results. Could you imaginethe forty nine ers tomorrow going, We've
got this game plan that will changeNFL forever. They get beat one hundred
to eighty every game, every game. It's entertaining. Is amazing, This

(40:35):
is we've never seen this before.But is that administration going to last long?
Is that coach going to last long? Is that is that group of
players going to last long? No? Because I think in pretty much any
major professional sport all around the world. You would recognize that that is acceptance
and mediocrity. It's worse medio hundredpoints a game, that's what. But

(40:57):
that's what. It's the equivalent towhat bass ball is. Yeah, we're
going to go out and score fourhundred or five hundred in a session or
in a day, but there's stillfive days to go. You've just given
the opposition a chance to crawl thatback into or two and a half days

(41:17):
and then be bowled out for ninetyon the fourth day. Yeah, game
over. I think it was anecessary evil. As I said, at
the beginning, England cricket was onits knees. There there was no light
at the end of the tunnel,was just perpetual blackness, Anderson abroad are
on the way out. Joe Rootwas literally like shrinking under the weight of
carrying that nation on his own,like he I'm sure he's shorter now on

(41:42):
what he was when he debuted.And the fans were fed up with it,
the media was fed up with it, and I think bas ball did
that thing where they got English fansexcited about English cricket again. But now
it's time to evolve. It's timeto go into a cocoon and come out
of butterfly, because I tell youwhat, do you know what keeps fans
in aged. It's not hitting foursand six's and going at five, six,

(42:04):
seven runs and over in a Testmatch. It's winning because I can
guarantee, like both the Test thatwe just watched Australia and New Zealand,
two hundred, one hundred and sixtyplays two hundred and fifty players were a
pretty good third inning scoreline. Judthey were all like, it's all fairly
and they were we're excited because wewon. It wasn't massive scores all through

(42:29):
the summer. Australia, Pakistan,West Indies like they're all in around that
sort of three hundred ish mark.There was one outlier when Warner at his
big score. But Australian fans areexcited because they're winning. English fans,
by and large probably one of themost intelligent fan bases going around. They're
excited now because when they started itwas exciting and they are winning. But

(42:52):
I can tell you what, They'renot going to keep being excited if they
keep throwing away games that they shouldwin, especially Ashes games and games against
India. You know if they throwaway the odd game, it's pakstar to
the West Indies being a bit adventurous. It's not going to they're not going
to be a too upset. Butif they're starving for the Ashes to come
back, and if they throw awayy Ashes games because they're being silly instead

(43:12):
of just grind it out and duckand weave and do that for half an
hour until the tea break and builda partnership and all that cricket parlancer comes
out, they'll get over it reallyquick because it's going to be we should
have won that game, but youguys fed it up. Well, the
old Premier League attitude, it's allabout trophies, yeap. No one cares
that you won one nil from apenalty because I can tell you what you've

(43:35):
got the trophy. In ten yearstime, no one's going to remember that
Johnny Bearstow went to what seven eightruns for and over for a whole session
and beat in India the New Zealandin the fourth innings in what two thousand
and twenty two, whatever it was. They are going to remember that in
the Ashes in twenty twenty three,that they cost themselves to tests in a

(44:00):
two all draw. Yep, it'sthose innusual moments are awesome at the time,
but at the end, as yousaid, trophies are what doing,
and that's that's the next step.Like well, the second last in the
Test Championship now second last behind thelikes of Bangladesh. You know it's you
would be looking at that as anEnglish fan and going hm hm, you

(44:23):
know you can. You can coveryour pooing glitter, but at the end
of the day, it's still poop. Well that's where they were before Basball.
They were, right, they weresecond last, I believe before when
Route gave up the captaincy and andso the Silver would let go of the

(44:45):
coaching and then McCullum and Stokes tookover. They were second last. And
here we are now second last again, playing great cricket, really riveting,
exciting cricket, but you're still losingjutifully. All right, he's not here

(45:06):
to talk about this. I'm justgonna get this one off off the bat
straight away for Glenn. Glenn,if you're listening, I've got it covered,
mate. God damn, I hatetwo Test match series that's out there,
all right. Moving on the Testbetween Australia and New Zealand. As
we said there were two of them. They've come to a close Australia with
a year well quite incredible victory ofthe end of it. I think it

(45:30):
was one that's at the end ofday one they would have been thinking,
yeah, cool, we've got thisin the bag too nil. And then
New Zealand did just a phenomenal jobof putting themselves in a position where they
well they arguably they threw that oneaway to be well, not throw it
away. They they were outplayed bythat one big partnership, but they got
themselves in a position where they werethe bossing the game. And when you

(45:52):
rolled for one hundred and sixty onday one, you you wouldn't expect at
any point to be bossing the game. No, I wudn't have thought.
So I have no doubt that whenthey do their postmodern they're going to be
very different disappointed with how their bigguns basically battered throughout this Test series.
It always seems to be the case, doesn't it. Like the bowlers do

(46:13):
a pretty sterling job in Test matchesagainst Australia, but the batsmen just don't
seem to come to the party.Well that being said, and I agree
to a point about their batsmen,but with the exception of Cameron Green with
what or not that was in thefirst Test, because we actually haven't had
a chance to talk about the firstTest. And then marsh and carry in

(46:35):
the fourth innings of this one.No batsman's done well, Marnus in the
first, in the first so there'sprobably four definitive innings, only four in
that have that have got us home. And of course it bothers like I
mean, Boers are just you know, hazer Wood just sensational, Paddy Cummings,

(47:02):
Stark, I think Stark he wasdown on pace. Stark was a
microcosm of what he is. Therewere points where he was unplayable and there
were points where he was loose,and there were points where he just gave
you that you know spell where maybeten balls are amazing and the others were
just a bit. But that's that'sMitchell Stark for that's what you get now.

(47:23):
This pace was down a long way. Like I watched watch both tests
fairly intuitively, and yeah, heI think his new ball spells where I
think were pretty rapid, and Ithink through the middle I would agree that
his pace was genuinely down and whereit was, But I remember the I
haven't sent him hit one thirty twoin a while, and he was doing

(47:45):
that consistently. I do remember though, was it the I think it was
the second innings in New Zealand's secondinnings when he opened up the nothing in
the first two overs was below oneforty two, So like there was pace
there, but in over all itwasn't a seamless stark and I just thought,

(48:05):
yeah, it just thought on thoseNew Zealand, especially that last test,
which did have a fair bit ofsteep in it, it did have
some carry. I looked at havingsaid that Creamer to tom la from in
the first inning, that's what doesI think? I think that's that's him.

(48:25):
Isn't it absolute rubbish? And youjust have to give or take?
But do we really care at theend of the day, he's overtaken.
He's overtaken Dennis literally at an averagein the mid twenties. Yeah, you
don't accidentally take more Dennis. You'renot quality, So it's got I'm just

(48:47):
sort of I'm he would be theweekly Well, I'm just worried. I'm
not saying he's a weak link atall. But I'm saying just moving forward
and a little bit worried about him, just just about whether he's fit,
you know, whether there's some nigglesthere, whether there's some injury concern.

(49:07):
Well, he has to go onon his big pay day in time,
might just be catching up to well, it might be too and being the
big unit he is, he's he'sobviously got more scope for niggles and little
things going wrong. So yeah,that's where I was more going. I
wasn't saying he was ship or rubbish. I think I think out of the

(49:28):
free pace bowler is like the freeout of the the big four, he's
the one who's most prone to justbeing a little bit off, and it's
usually a technical thing with he's runup or whatever. It happens to be
a left arm sling bowler. Yeah, and it's a he's a left arm
slinging bowler that does a lot ofhis best work with the ball swinging,
so it's not swinging and he's gettingdriven a lot. So yeah, you

(49:52):
just you got to appreciate staffty fortyyears because when he gets it right,
he's going to pegs out of theground. When he gets it wrong,
he's probably going to get driven throughthe covers a lot. By and large,
I think it was you'd say,at worst he was mediocre, and
that was for a couple of spellshere and there. But you know,
all of them stood up and dida job. You know, Cummens was

(50:13):
fantastic in the second innings in NewZealand's second innings to break open that big
partnership and start getting towards in thatmiddle order, so we could only end
up chasing two fifty instead of threepoint fifty. Haser Wood with a bag
in the first innings. Line bowlersthe victory in the first Test, you
know, just yeah, there was. It was a real team effort.

(50:37):
And I know that's a real clichething to say, but like the they
really did, you know, allthose hunting packs, bowling partnerships, all
that sort of stuff, like theywere they were sublime as a bowling routine.
There is no better in the world. But I can't remember seeing you
know, three front end fast bowland a spinner be like the I believe

(51:04):
they're probably in the top ten inthe world, all four of them as
bold. There can be no doubt, you know that they're the best quartet
in world cricket and the best we'veseen. They're the best Australian quartet.
They're not the not saying that they'rethe best three pace bowlers Australia's but as
a unit of a union of four. At no point in cricket Australia's history

(51:27):
have there been four bowlers consistently playingtogether at the same time that are as
good as those four that and youknow, you could come quite I'm maybe
the four horsemen of the Apocalypse.That's the only other one that I'd say
that might get them. And Iwould almost give a slight nod to the
Australians on the shear fact that theycould probably be a little more flexible with

(51:51):
the addition of line as a spinner. But that being said, the West
End he didn't need a spinner andthey still walked everyone. So they're just
not blocks off you. We're talkingfor quartets. That's the only other one,
and to be fair, the Australianshave done done it for a lot
longer, which when you consider nottoo far back in our recent history we

(52:12):
had McGrath, Gillespie, Lee wornand then any variations on that theme you
know, that was a pretty handyquartet for a considerable period of time.
Yeah, I'll dig out of thisrabbit hole to staff after this point.
But I think I actually read astat that that that's that's like the predominant
sort of early mid thousands quartet McGrath, Gillespie, Lee Worn. I think

(52:37):
they played some like startlingly low numberof tests when you consider that's like the
modern vernacular of what the Australian bowlingattack was through the thousands, Like that,
they actually didn't play as much crickettogether as you think. Well,
Gillespie was injured, a lot ofsuspenders, Lee was injured. You're sort

(52:59):
of the mainstay was probably Pig,you know, he sort of was the
guy that instead of rolling his anklea lords let's not there. But yeah,
but that that that quartet, whileeveryone talks about it being like what
about what about war and billspie lead, they actually didn't end up playing that

(53:19):
much trigger there because you had CasperWits too, you know, he'd come
in the Indian and the fleming.You know there was yeah cheers, we
had missed the NI but yeah,look look at our bowlers have dug us

(53:42):
out of another Test series again theygot us out of Pakistan. Now,
I wanted to bring that point.He's now three. Yeah, it's been
a summerless of runs really, likeI mean, probably probably scored more runs
in my toilets. Are we concerned? I mean, let's not kid about

(54:02):
Kowages and Smith are in their twilightyears. You know, Ahead and Lavashane
are in there like they're in theirearly thirties now, and then you've got
cam Green as well. Are wecan concern it all about you know,
typically speaking players don't get better intheir late thirties, which is where we've
got some pretty key rumors and shakersin our line. But we're probably concerned

(54:28):
the next level it's going to comethrough. We had to replace three of
them straight away, we'd have problems. I think we can replace one of
them at a time, but Idon't know we could replace a couple of
them at a time. And Idon't know that we're going to get the
opportunity to do it one at atime either, I don't think so ever.
You know, you look at thoseages, it's it's concerning, it's

(54:49):
it's it's that early two thousand andI think that Sceio. Probably all the
concerned is, yeah, you're right, it's not all right. We're not
really concerned about Smith, Kowaja,labichhet In Marsh. We're more concerned about
the factors, right, who's comingup next? And when they say that
Matt Renshaw is that next guy,and it's like really, even cam Bancroft

(55:09):
too, he said was all right, cam Bancrofts got to play, got
to play, got to play.He didn't pick him. He was going
back to shield and he's laid aduck egg like he's done nothing since getting
back there. I think the confidenceis shot. He did get fifty well,
sorry, he's about to get fifties. He's forty I think forty seven,
not out, but he struggled atdouble figures in the last few But

(55:30):
wouldn't you. I'm not I'm notsaying it's not warranted, but but I'm
just saying the facts are that he'scome back and you you know, whether
it's he's down and out or he'sjust you know, the guy that we're
all saying had to be there hasgone back and then for whatever reason it
is, has lost his form.And I completely agree, like i'd be

(55:51):
fed up with the world as wellas is. If Renshaw wasn't on these
tours away with the Australian side,would he be doing any better? And
she'll probably no, he's playing.He hasn't scored too many runs in Shield
that time when he was that.There's a lot of noise around Renshaw,
around some ex Australian cricketers who shouldbe and I rate Hados as a you

(56:12):
know, as a person who wouldknow. But I think there's far too
much parochialness around Queensland and getting anotherQueenslander in there rather than actual ability.
I can't believe it's being made aboutRenshaw. He's he is not. He's
been given chances, He's been givenmore than enough chances in my opinion,

(56:37):
to really cement down a spot.He could have kept Kuwajra out of the
side many years ago and didn't.So you know, I worry still young,
like he's in his mid twenties.So you know, we said earlier
you don't hit your batting strides untilyou're in that late twenties. So there's
there could be that Travis Head MitchMarsh revival. But the point is I

(57:00):
agree with you at the moment lookingat his body of work while he is
arguably on the short list of guys, and I think that's more of an
indictment of the lack of depth inour Sheffield Shield than it is a tick
in the box from ott Wrenshaw.He has been pretty inconsistent this year,
so we start looking away from thoseguys who've been on the top of the

(57:22):
list for a while and start lookingat people like maybe a name from mcswainey
who makes really, really tough runsin really tough situation. He's the only
at the moment, I think likeBancroft and Rent are a guy that has
scored runs near the pointy end ofshield, if not at the point of
end of shield for a couple ofyears. I think that they're still the

(57:43):
guys that you're looking at, andI think, really the only blow So
McSweeney would be one and Matt Shortwould be the other that I would be
looking at realistically getting a call upinto the middle order any points sometime soon,
because I think Matt Short is justa free he's been scoring runs.
Where do we play someone there,But like every one else is sort of

(58:04):
like you'll get a good score outof Caleb Jewel here, and then a
whole lot of nothing, and thenHenry Hunt has a handy score every now
and then Ollie Davies, who's beentalked up, is still very inconsistent.
This is actually Webster who's killing it. Oh yeah, that's the other guy
sor that Bo Webster, Matt Shortand Nathan McSweeney. They're the three that

(58:25):
I'd be thinking about where we're goingto get runs from from Shield. I'd
actually i'd have Bow Webster would bethe next guy up if it was going
to be a middle order spot.Where are we putting Aaron Hardy in all
of this? Are we just lookingon him as strictly as an all rounder
or somebody who that at six atthe moment, Yeah, Like, I
don't think we could carry Green,Marsh and Hardy, So he's got to

(58:47):
wait for one of those guys tofall out, which would probably be not
And I have no issues with that. I have no problems at all with
carrying Hardy and Green in the side. I think we talked about that probably
twelve months ago, that one thingI said that I can envision I think
it was about twelve twelve months ago. I could envision that Cameron Green eventually
moved from six replaces Steve Smith atfour. I assume that Smith would have

(59:07):
retired at that point, not beenshoveled to open up, but he would
replace Smith at four. And thatgives you a room to then play Hardy
as the all rounder, who's probablymore of a bowling all around than what
Green is anyway, and Green youjust go and score shit later on.
That should be the plan, whichis what's happened. They've really greened before,
and I'll let you I wanted todo it, but I think you're
wanting to talk about that one hundredand seventy just as much as I do.

(59:30):
Yeah, Look, he and I'vesaid on many of these podcasts that
what a talent this guy is,and I rate him as good at batsman
as we've seen in the last twentyyears as a youngster. Potentially, I

(59:51):
genuinely feel that now I think he'slike that he's come in. I can
remember Hughes and Clark exactly being consideredbetter talents than Green. They were.
They're the two guys that were youknow, you really knew early on that
they were going to be something samesame of this blow. You just he's

(01:00:15):
got he's got it, he's gotit all. He defends he he did
it really tough that first fifty sixtyballs, Like he genuinely struggled, but
he kept he kept composure. Heallowed the bowlers to bowl to him.

(01:00:37):
He let a lot of balls go, which I like, and it's what
Marnus and Smith are not doing atthe moment. Which will touch on a
bit later, but I think cameif he off one hundred and sixteen balls,
yep, and then it took himforty four walls to get from fifty
to one hundred, which is exactlywhat you want out of a top order.

(01:00:57):
Fan is Test cricket, Yeah,is slugging it out when the going
is tough, and then once you'refit and firing and everything's clicking, then
you start putting the pressure back onthe ball. If any young England cricketer
is watching an innings, they're watchingthat innings because that's how you build an
innings. You earn you're playing theright to play, and then once you've

(01:01:21):
hurt that right and you're seeing theball and you've got the pace of the
wicket and the ballers are bowling toyou, and everything just gets so much
easier. That's the time to cashin. And he did it perfectly,
and it was by far and awaythe outlier because I think what two other
players made fifty yep in that gameand he's there one hundred and seventy four

(01:01:42):
whatever. It was like, whatjust and if he's going to give away
bowling, there's another role he needsto pick up, and that's been Josh
Hazelwood's personal batting coach. Because thosetwo know that. I was like,
Josh, don't you get out,don't you? Oh wow, Josh's on
twenty partnership save that test, yep, that was the partnership. A lot

(01:02:04):
of saying, you know, Mitchmass bah blah came out and you know,
scored freely and helped Green. Butit was Green's ability to bat with
Josh give him the confidence to youknow, hey, mate, stick around
because there's a I've got a fewruns left in me yet, so you
know, stick around for me andwe can make a goal of this.
That that was huge in the contextof that test, That partnership was huge.

(01:02:27):
So give away the bowing, Greeningjust become Josh's batting coach, like
war and Warren McGrath and make theworld is your oyster poal mate. I
actually just exceptional talent. I actuallyjust think it wasn't that long ago.
I'm thinking we went back through thepodcast. We were actually discussing the perilous
state of the Australian tailorder batting.That's kind I've actually been very, very

(01:02:51):
impressed since the ashes over in England. I think one of my big criticisms
has been Pat Cummins hasn't been willingto do the hard work as a batsman.
He certainly has in and he hasbeen I think actually he has got
the highest average in the team outof in the highest career average for runs
in the fourth inning, fourth inning. I'm super impressed with the como over

(01:03:14):
the last yeah, twelve months.He has scored some tough runs in England.
Yeah that was huge, you know. And he's he's done some really
hard He's got a bad above Starkin my opinion, because he, to
me is a genuine eighth batsman.Stark is He's the guy that you probably

(01:03:35):
want to go up and accelerate things. But Starky struggled with the bat to
be fair, ye he has,but he hasn't been hasn't been great.
He's just one of those ones thatI think he is, what again,
like a boy years what he is. He's going to go out, He's
going to take the long handle tothe ones that he can take the long
handle too. And there's not alot else in Starky's game, but he's
freedom at nine. I think.I think putting him up to eight sort

(01:03:59):
of suggests he have a little bitof a clasp. He needs to be
responsib He's not responsible, but no, it's not. It seems like the
pressure gets to him and he justgoes and then throws it away or clips
wonder midwie off a ball that heshould have just pulled into the stands anyway,
circling to the other side of theditch. Just want to give a
big shout out to Matt Henry.What a series that bloke had Player of

(01:04:23):
the Series in a losing effort anddeservedly so. Like the guy was phenomenal
something what is it, sixteen orseventeen wickets in the two Test series two
sevens bad. I think he werebest batting well against the best Test in
the world and was second third secondhighest run scorer for him maybe which I

(01:04:46):
think is a lot of an indictmentof how bad they're batters were then.
But yeah, he came out atknowing or whatever it was, and but
he was a rearguard action for thejob and was aggressive like when you need
okay, that's time to hit outbecause we're stare down the barrel of nothing
here or he was are we seeingthe end of the key week Golden Generation
starting to fade into the resistance?Absolutely, But that being said, I

(01:05:10):
think they're always going to be thatunless they're playing us, because they never
seem to be able to to getit right when they play us. But
I think they're going to keep thattradition of punching above their weight, like
there've always been a team that getscloser to the big dogs than what you
expect they should be. And Ithink that's still Like I was really impressed
with sears in this talent. YoungO'Rourke, who played in the first Test,

(01:05:31):
looks a good prospect. He hada good potentially have a very very
tall, very fast ratchin Ravender isgoing to be a fantastic a fantastic gay.
He's he's class uh, he's aone, He's a one day player
that needs to make that transition toplaying proper red ball cricket. But he's

(01:05:54):
in the similar Vandy Gill. Youknow, he very good one day,
stick with him the end of hisclass, you've got he's he's your next
ten to fifteen years. He madehe made two fifties out of four innings,
is on difficult wickets against probably thebest bowl intact in the world.
And that eighty that he made inthe second innings was composure, class will,

(01:06:17):
style and a clear thought process aboutwhat he was trying to do.
That's what he liked. The subyoung kids. They knew that they got
him out. Yeah that he knewthat Australia worked him out in the first
three innings because he got out prettymuch with balls slashing outside of stuff.
He put that away the second dickand looked a far more composed, you

(01:06:43):
know, mentally tough cricket. Hisjudgement, his judgment of length in the
second dig was the thing. Hisjudgment of the length to drive. I
mean, we don't want to seehim put that drive away, beauty,
but his judgment of length was alot better in that second inning. Circle
back to the first segment. It'sexactly the kind of thing that bas ball

(01:07:03):
doesn't encourage. Now, if yourSHOT's the cut shot and you've been caught
there at you know, second gullyor extra point or whatever it is,
three times out of four, justkeep playing it. That's your shot and
just on the one hand, yeah, that's right. But there is a
thing as well. If you gotout three times out of four and they've

(01:07:27):
set seven guys around you and they'rebowl and white outside off, put it
away. They'll get tired of it, and then they can make it somewhere
else. And then once you're hittingit somewhere else, they'll open gap flope
and then you can go back toyour strength. And that's something that that
bas ball hasn't encourage. It's justtrailblazes away. That's your strength. You
play your strength. That's what youdo. You do what you do.

(01:07:49):
Like Steve Woard didn't play another poolshot from nine nine pretty much like he
didn't hit he put that shot awaycompletely. Sat Jintan Douk would never have
scored that double one hundred at Sydneyplaying bass ball because he would have been
out playing the cover drive, hittingat the second slip yep again. And

(01:08:10):
that's the thing and that's what isthe mark of a Test cricketer is when
because it is, it takes itin turns the whole thing about Test cricket.
It's not one day cricket where thepitchers are obligated to be flat because
we want to see runs, becausethat's the point of one day cricket.
It's a run chase. Test cricket. There is supposed to be times that
the bat's going to succeed and timesthe ball is going to succeed. And

(01:08:32):
when it's the time for the ballto succeed, what's in Test credit is
how do I make sure the balldoesn't beat me. It's not necessarily how
do I beat the ball. It'shanging around long enough to be in a
position where the ball then gets olderand you can start playing those shots again.
And that's what Revender did really wellin that one. And what Joyce

(01:08:55):
Wall I think is going to bea player and Giller is a player of
that caliber, is that they understandthat there are limitations well and put those
limitations away until it's safe to playthose shots again. Or just touching back
on the previous segment where we're talkingabout Sugarman Gill the first one hundred that
he made in this series against againstEngland. His first ten runs took sixty

(01:09:16):
one balls. He was ten offsixty one. He reached his one hundred
of one hundred and sixty balls,so ninety of one hundred balls, ninety
off one hundred balls. After he'ddone the hard yards ball and down,
got the field spread and then theball soft. Now I'm going to dominate.
That's how you played Test cricket.It is not a science. Yeah,
it's been around since what the eighteenseventies sixties thinking, So let's we've

(01:09:43):
all constructed our points about you knowthis, you know how to construct an
innings and how bas ball all thissort of stuff and how basball's in English
thing. Then Darryl Mitchell I couldsee. So I'm going to read this
quote from Darryl Mitchell after the secondTest loss for US. We've always said,

(01:10:08):
as Black Cats, we're not definedby the outcomes. We're defined by
how we play cricket and hopefully weinspire our country to play the game.
Mitchell's told s Hen, we arereally proud of our efforts that we did
throughout the Tests, although we didn'tget the win that we wanted. I
think if we keep turning up andkeep playing cricket like this, puffing our

(01:10:31):
chests out and doing it with asmile on our face and hopefully inspiring many
young kids here in New Zealand toplay test cricket in the future, then
we're doing the right thing. WrongDarryl wrong looking. I'm going to scale
back a little bit. By andlarge, I accept the premise is flawed,
but in a vacuum, I don'tmind that. I think what he's

(01:10:53):
getting across is that they play hard, they push the Aussies to the limit,
and what he wants is for theNew Zealand fans to appreciate that we
do belong on this stage. Wecan keep up with the big dogs and
we play cricket the right way andthey do the gentlemen of cricket. They
do play cricket the right way,and they're hoping that more of those rugby

(01:11:15):
mad fans play cricket. But Iknow we're going You need to be playing
to win when you're playing international intothat England track. Don't settle for playing
well in a losing effort. Striveto win. And I think in a
vacuum that's not what they're trying toput across. They're not going to say
how we play it is more importantthan the result. But I think what

(01:11:38):
they're saying is that they're proud ofthe way that they competed, and they
should be because they were out ofthat test early and they clawed and dug
and scratched and bit and fought andthey got themselves in a position where they
should have won. But marsh andKerrey were just too good in the afternoon.
There's not a lot that they didwrong. Maybe could have changed things

(01:12:00):
up and what sort of I don'treally think they could have done an awful
lot more different. They ran intotwo blokes and decided that today is our
day and we're not letting our countrydown. And they had their will outdid
and it was the pitch got soft, the ball got soft. But even
then they still fought and scrapped anddidn't give it away at any stage.

(01:12:24):
And that's I mean totally on townyside here with how that sounds. That
sounds so bass ballish and so soBen Stokes. I think in the context,
yeah, in the context of it, because they are a traditional underdog,

(01:12:44):
I can sort of understand that,but I would hope that that's just
a media blurb and that that's notthe attitude that actually exists with it in
the dressing rooms. Are a differentbeast much as a sporting nation, they're
a different beastrike. They're used towinning, and their fans are used to
watching their sporting teams win, rightin rugby, in things that they dominate,

(01:13:10):
which is rugby, and you knowthe likes of netball and you know,
all that stuff that they are reallyreally good at. They love winners.
You know, they will take winningover a glorious to deal with a
smile on our face and you know, you know, soft like, I

(01:13:32):
get it, I get what they'retrying to do. I'll put this question
to you. Neil Wagner plays thattests, they don't lose. Mmm.
He bowls them to victory on thatlast day. Also might have got absolutely
pounded for his short stuff. Heplays a short ball really well. That

(01:13:53):
guy is a winner. That guyis a winner. And he would have
dragged that team by the scruff ofthe neck on his own, you know.
And I thought South he was prettyordinary for that series. If he
replaced Wagner with southe could I couldalmost go there. I do. I
just feel the way that Kerry andmarsh played it was just like, no,
no, we're doing but but Wagnerbowling one hundred and thirty eight thunderbolts

(01:14:15):
at Kerry's head. That's different.That's different gros Wagner using like the Wanger
thing. Yeah, he ain't onehundred and thirty eight. Yeah, yeah
he does. Now he does withhis short stuff. Absolutely he does.
Maybe back in twenty ten. He'sa winner and he and he would have
clicked it up for that for thatpurpose. He's he's he's a guy that's

(01:14:41):
so underrated by people. I'm notunderrated by anybody who's actually saying the guy
I play. But they left himout of the team for a reason.
He retired, didn't he when heretired when they left him out of the
team. So I mean, yeah, because I think he's got a different
attitude to a lot of those blokes. And I think that Darryl Mitchell's compounded

(01:15:02):
that. Yeah, I don't agreewith the premise of his argument. I
can also see as a side ofthe view. But I mean, if
you said, what side of theargument are you coming down on here,
I'm probably sitting in town his campon that one. And I think at
the end of the day, you'vegot to be encouraged, especially at professional
level that the bridge and the needto win games and people love they said,

(01:15:25):
they love to win. I justthink in this one it's a guy
who's disappointed about and like they wouldbe so gutted it's Astralia. They had
Australia on the ropes and they letit slip. And the thing is for
a lot of those guys too,they won't play Australia maybe again anytime soon.
And I'm not saying that that attitudeis all across the team because they've
got quite a few young blokes thatthey brought up through this sort of Test

(01:15:47):
series, like young Sears and thoseguys who who you can see that they
want to win lot. They wouldreally love to beat Australia, you know,
being their first or second Test.They would love to have that scout.
You know. I'm sure it wasa massive thing for his first Test
wicket being Steve Smith, you knowthat. I think I just that worries

(01:16:13):
me when an individual like that,who, let's face it, he's not
the best cricketer in the team,he's probably not in the best fall right,
but yet he comes out and saysthat I'd be a little bit worried
about that mediocrity sitting in the bestwell in sorry, in the worst five

(01:16:35):
of your cricket team, which isif it's in a vacuum, just talking
about how they performed in that game. I think maybe it's the media latching
onto it just sounds just like basball and blowing it up. If it
is a cultural thing that what wewant to do is play good cricket and
you're not really worried about the results. But if we just play good cricket,

(01:16:57):
we play exciting cricket, we playgentlemen cricket, or whatever the thing
is, and we just will letthe results look after themselves. It is
a very you always have to bestriving to improve to win. That's the
goal. It's not candor cricket.It's not under nines. It's not everyone
gets to go, everyone gets atrade from them and feels good about themselves.
You do that at that level soyou get them encouraged to play the
game, so they grow up andrealize what you do when you play competitive

(01:17:20):
sport is you compete and you win. But you do it the right way.
You do it fairly, you don'tcheat. But you're going out there
you given one hundred and ten percentand all those other sport even aculas to
win. If you're not walking onthe field at the end of the day
going what do I need to doto win this goddamn game, then you're
doing it wrong. Losers have meetings, winnings have parties. Yeah, it's

(01:17:41):
flat out. When I was ina really tough spot with a team that
I captain last year, we werereally up against it. We got knocked
over in our semi final for areally low score. It was a two
days. We've come back on thesecond day and I just said, so
the guys void walked on the field. I don't want anyone thinking out anything
except this, what do I needto do to win this game? Don't

(01:18:05):
think about how many runs we've gotto defend. Don't think about how many
wickets we've got to get. Tellme what you're going to do so we
win. Don't think about it.There's no way that we can only defend
another fifty runs and we've still gotseven wickets to get where. We're just
here to make no how do weget those seven wickets and then you think

(01:18:26):
about how to win and you know, we didn't end up getting there,
but we got them nine down.For when they crossed it over the line,
they were nine wickets down and theywere It was a really big turn
around from a team that was prettydown and out getting home on day one
of that game. So you've gotto go in there clear of mind,
play trick it the right way,play it. You know it's going to
be friendly, you know all thatsort of stuff. Play it friendly,

(01:18:48):
be the gentleman, played by therules, you know, sportsmanship, spirit
of cricket, all that. Butwalk on the field, even if it's
not cricket, basketball, football,soccer, walk onto the field going how
am I going to win this?Because if that's not your thought, then
even if you're not the good enoughand if you're going to be playing against
the team that you've got no chanceof winning, if you're thinking about that

(01:19:11):
as you walk on, then youdo have no chance of winning. Absolutely
well, you know, speaking speakingof that, it's that's exactly what you
know we were we were going throughon the weekend. You know, what,
what are each of you going todo individually to have that moment that's
going to win this game? Whatare you going to do? That's that's

(01:19:34):
that's the attitude you have to have. You have to have that attitude or
otherwise. And it's not when weplay cricket the right way and we execute
our skills and we let the resultstake care of themselves. Know, how
do you go and get the results? Results happen. You've got to grab
them, and you've got to grabthose moments when they come to you.
And you go look at any successany team that has been successful in any

(01:19:56):
sport over a prolonged period of time. They're not we just do the right
things and we'll let you know.Whatever happens happens, and it takes care
of itself. They're preparing how towin the game to mediocrity attitude. That's
what it is. To me.I think we can really some bazzball up
is basball is the participation trophy ofcricket essentially, isn't it When you think
about it, Well, there's plentyof them getting the middle, but not

(01:20:18):
many of them getting to win.That's exactly right. And you know from
from my personal thing, you know, I actually sat there and really enjoyed
it and getting skilled for one hundredand ninety and that thing because they deserved
it. They deserved it. Theyplayed mediocre cricket and they had a mediocre
attitude. There've been mediocre in theway that they've applied their skills there.

(01:20:41):
And quite frankly, the Ginger Wintersummed it up nicely for me the other
day. Yeah, it's thirty nineoff thirty one balls and reviewed a court
behind that. You know it smashedthat, he smashed. He's he's the
lowest form of cricketer. I've seenit a long time. I'm going to

(01:21:05):
outwardly. I'm going to finish onthis note. I saw something flash up
on x Twitter depending on what theoperating system that you're using, and it
was the postulated this question on theirvery best day, I would take Johnny
Bearstow to bat at five in myWorld eleven team. I'm like, are

(01:21:28):
we talk calorified? Is this alltime or right now? Because if it's
all time, then absolutely Johnny Bearstowgets nowhere near this side. I didn't
get a response, but I scrolleddown and he was arguing the merits of
people like Michael Clark and Mitchell Johnsonand ab Devilliers. So it was he
was talking all time, all time, Johnny Bearstow on his very best day.

(01:21:54):
This person was taking at five inthe best all time team people playing
at the very absolute peak of theirhours. I was like, so we're
talking about that six week period twoyears ago, just like you're insane.
That is the most insane thing I'veheard. And that's what I'm going to
leave you on. Guys, Absolutelyjust nonsense that comes up. I did

(01:22:15):
say that by and large, they'rethe smartest group English cricket fans, but
there are outliers. So anybody wh'son the Barbie Army fan page, and
yes, I am ye, don'twe get some don't we get some funny
people on there? And then thatgoes with everything I reckon or any any
any kind of sporting fans. TheNewcastle Knights Facebook groups page, by and

(01:22:38):
large, is probably about three orfour brain cells between most of them.
Aramis is still looking for the nextEarlough. So all right, guys.
That brings the Australian Test summer toa close and our episode tonight. So
we've got bat Stead, We've gotplenty of cricket. It's all going to
be coming at that way. We'regoing to have I imagine the CPOL,
the Major League Cricket, I shouldsay we started up soon. We're going

(01:23:00):
to hand Y p L and likea big game in two weeks too,
boys, Oh yeah, yeah,the grand big game. Boys, ready
and red for that. Mate.Should be good, should be good,
should be good fun. It's beena couple of years since second grade got
the chockeys. It's been a fewa few, but no, we're well

(01:23:21):
considering where we came from before Christmas, it's been a mighty year, I
think considering where he's actually were lastyear when we're in a lot of ways.
Last year was probably that building year, and we probably we're probably a
game short. You know, you'vegot a good side together when you can
lose your leading wicket taker from theyear before and then make it further with

(01:23:44):
large of the same squad. Sothere's a lot of internal improvement that's happens,
and it's been really good to seefor you guys. So best for
like in two weeks. We mightnot get together before then, but go
the red Backs, go the Redders, and yeah boo, whoever it is
makes it through the next semon.I've got my voodoo doll ready, I

(01:24:05):
just need to know the colors.Guys. What All right, guys,
thanks very much for your attention thisevening. We'll be back as soon as
we can with another episode. There'salways plenty of things to talk about in
cricket, and if I can't findand then usually I'll make it up.
Pick an eleven of some varying Wehaven't done an all the time eleven or

(01:24:28):
something for a while. Pick someweird category. We must be all time
redheaded eleven. No, we arewe talking about on the color of the
hair or cricketing ability right now?Yeah? Yeah, yeah, he's pretty
red. Sean Pollock's probably captain ofthat. Yeah, Sean Pollock was strawberry

(01:24:51):
man. That's red. That's whatI mean. All right, guys,
thanks very much, Bye for now. Hi that sports social podcast network at
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