Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
You'll be away five seventeen. Do you want to report
a UFO hanging in? We don't want to report every
thirty one. Do you wish to report a UFO over hey,
we want to one of those areas thirty one.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Do you wish to find a report of any kind
of it? I wouldn't know what kind of reports clouds time.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
Areas thirty one me neither. There were seven one golf.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
If it was anybody as above us to pass us,
like thirty seconds ago.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
We were sending one top of golf negative, Okay.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
OFFI the UFO.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
Yeah, it's murder two o'clock.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Yes, if you passed over out, I don't know what
it was.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
But it's from at least to three thousand feet above us. See,
I passed out over the thought of us.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Ninety one one.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
You just called both to be be fours. They're after
staying the airplanes.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
He is.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
To God on an unidentified object, every liberty or call
or calm on an unidentified flying object.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Welcome to UFO Chronicles, a place where people share their
experiences of the strange and unexplained. If you've had an encounter,
I would like to be on the show. You can
email me at UFO Chronicles at gmail dot com. Hello everyone,
(01:49):
and welcome to this show. Wherever in the world you
are joining us from, I hope you're all doing good
this week. I'm Nick Hanta and you're listening to the
UFO Chronicles podcast. Tonight we meet Michael in California, and
Michael would be sharing the abuse he survived by his
demon possessed mother. His mother not only terrorized the family,
(02:09):
but also the neighbors in a small northern Ontario town
in Canada in the seventies and eighties. Michael up next.
If you enjoy listening to the podcast and would like
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(02:31):
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Speaker 3 (02:44):
Now on with the show.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Hello Michael, good morning, and welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
Good morning, and it's an honor to be with you here,
coming from California. I know you're in the UK there,
and yes, it is morning, he'll here still, I know
for you it's not late afternoon, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
That's right. Yeah, we're at about eight o'clock now, eight
o'clock in the evening, so we're just a few hours
ahead of you. We're also we're also coming out of
a heat wave as well, so it's still hot in
the studio.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Well, I think I've got your beat here. It's one
hundred and seventeen today in Palm Desert.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
One hundred and seventeen, Craig, it was one hundred and
two yesterday here.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Yeah, well, we have no humid so it's new humidity,
so it's a dry heat that matters. At seventeen.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Nice, I'm pretty sure it's about hundred and seventeen in
the studio actually saying that I've got no I've got
no fans on. Okay, thank you Michael for joining us today. Now, Michael,
your experiences go back to the seventies and eighties. Would
you like to let the listeners know a little bit
about yourself and what you experienced during those years, please, sir.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
Well, I was born in sixty eight in a borough
in Canada and Ontario which is near the east coast,
just upstate from Buffalo, and we have boroughs there just
like they do in New York. You've got the Bronx
and Queens, so on what we've got boroughs. And I
was born in one of those boroughs. It's an Italian
(04:27):
borough because I'm Italian, called a Tobacco, which is actually
an Indian name which means place of the Alders, so
it's actually Indian land. But I was born in sixty eight,
and I think by the time I was we lived
in and around Ontario, the Toronto metropolitan area for the
(04:49):
first four or five years of my life. But I
can remember around the age of three, we were living
in Mississauga, and I think it was the very first
account that really threw me kind of for a loop.
I think it was about three and a half, you know,
around three and a half, so this would bring us
(05:10):
to around nineteen seventy one, maybe seventy two, somewhere in
that vicinity. And being an Italian child, you know, we
would always have this star soup kind of Americans and
probably in the UK you would notice no children eat
(05:31):
like a star soup bowl. We have this soup called hutapazule,
and usually I'd get that at lunch at lunch time
and my mother would call me to the table, and
you know, the ball would be sitting there, and you know,
I'd come to lunch, you know, be watching Sessian Street
or something. In this one particular time, I went and
(05:52):
sat down in a chair and it wasn't there, and
my mother came up behind me and dumped the whole
pot of hot soup down my left shoulder. So that
was the beginning of something very strange, and my mother
ended up calling the uh, calling a taxi and then
(06:15):
we had a head on over to the doctors. She
never consoled me, never said a word, never hugged me,
never kissed me, never did anything. It was an absolute
disconnect there. We went to the doctors, came home, and
I don't remember my mother from that point on ever
having a conversation with me or speaking. She became she
(06:39):
began to be very distant, very disconnected, and I think
it was six months later we ended up moving into
a house where subsequently she began to tell my sister,
who was seven years older than me at the time,
so she was probably ten, ten or eleven years old,
much more aware and me, even though I was an
(07:01):
extremely aware and analytical child, she started to My mother
started telling us that she was hearing voices and seeing
things around the house, and you know, hearing knocking and
scratching and all this kind of kind of business. And
we were living in a house at the time when
(07:23):
all that was going on. We had moved into this house.
And I remember I remember as a child, you know,
going to sleep and having your door open a little bit.
And I remember the adults, most importantly my mother's sister,
who was, you know, my aunt, and they were talking
about the seances and things like this, you know, spiritual
(07:47):
kind of weird occultish things, because my my, my sister,
my aunt was into occult things. You know. Eventually, I'll
just speed up a little bit on that. Eventually her
daughter ended committing suicide and hanging herself in the basement,
having three kids, which was very bizarre, but definitely part
(08:07):
of the entity intrusion that came into our life. Previous
to me being born, my mother, my mother's father had
an accident, a horrible accident while crossing railroad tracks. We
think he was drunk and a train hit him and
(08:29):
cut his legs off, and this was extremely traumatic to
my mother, who adored her father. So my sister and
I kind of put two and two together, and you know,
she was, you know, mentally rocked by that because she
had just adored her father. And I think what had
(08:50):
happened was, you know, kind of doing the math here
that her and her sister, my aunt, they tried to
and her father because she was, you know, disillusioned by
the whole thing of losing her beloved father. And I
think she was very vulnerable at the time, and I
(09:13):
think they ended up inviting a spirit into my mother's
life in that desperation. That's usually what happened during the
cult and these kind of practices, and what happened from there.
That's my sister seems to trace the beginnings of all
of these strange happenings from that time. So fast forward
(09:37):
to I'm just about to turn five, and we end
up there's something happened in our family. There was some
some paradigm shift in our family, and all of a sudden,
we abruptly picked up and moved one hundred and twenty
miles away to this isolated little town of four thousand
(09:57):
on Naawa Saga Bay. But my dad still would go
drive back the entire one hundred and twenty miles to
go work down where we just left from, and he
would stay down there five or six days a week.
So my father was a negligent in his appearance in
(10:21):
our family for many years because he was always working
out there. But once we moved to this isolated town,
my mother started getting worse. She started talking to herself
very incoherently, couldn't understand a lot of the things she
was saying. It was very very I know, it was
(10:44):
disturbing to all of us, but you know, at that point,
you know, because it was so gradual that we just
discounted that she was you know, you know, crazy or
not in her right mind or whatever, because it was
so so gradual. So a couple of years passed and
(11:04):
she continued in this, and it began, it became worse.
She began to you know, talk, sit in a chair
for all hours of the day from sun up till
sun down and just be you know, talking. And she
began to talk now in some different different languages, and yeah,
(11:27):
like having conversations very quickly between several different people, kind
of like a multiple personality kind of thing, and that's
kind of how we took it. We didn't really know,
you know, how to process this. We were just kids
and my dad was never there, so we just for
the most part kind of ignored it. But about the time,
(11:50):
about the time I think I was twelve or thirteen,
maybe probably twelve, I was sitting in class one day
in public school book and there was a knock on
the door and some policemen were there, and there was
a couple of people. I don't know who they were,
but they called the teacher in and they looked back
(12:10):
at me and called my name, so I went up
to the front. They told me I needed to go
with who I recognized as my neighbor. I got in
the car with him, and he told me that there
had been an accident, and I was like, oh, what happened?
And he proceeded to tell me that my mother tried
(12:31):
to kill my sister with a butcher knife, that she
had chased her outside and was chasing her around the car,
and the neighbors saw this and you know, subsequently called
the police, and the police showed up and they ended
up taking her way in a straight jacket to a
mental institution. So anyway, I found out later that day
after talking to my sister that if I had not
(12:55):
been careless in leaving the doors open, because I don't
know if you have this the UK, but in Canada
we have them. You know what's called a mud room.
A lot of people on the East Coast in the
United States too, So you have many doors. You have
a door to the living room, then a door to
the mudroom, and then two doors that lead outside, you know,
a heavy door and some sort of screen door. And
(13:16):
I had left all those doors open. And my sister
had told me that if I didn't leave all those
doors open that my mother would have successfully killed her.
This butch and I she told me that she had
been hearing voices. My mom would be hearing voices for years.
But she said that the voices were telling her to
kill my sister because she was a witch. So that
(13:39):
that was the first big incident that happened. And you know,
we were interviewed by the police, which often happened for
disturbances at the house. The social social services at the time.
Even though my sister, I think was of age, I
was the miner. They didn't know what to do, they
(14:01):
didn't know what to make of it. They didn't know.
They actually tried to convince me to run away, which
I thought was absolutely ridiculous. But I think that they
had stumbled upon more evidence of how deep problem my
mother had, and I think that's what led to them
not being able to understand what was going on. And
(14:23):
then three months later my mother returns. So I don't
know how that happens social services when you have eyewitnesses,
is somebody trying a parent trying to kill children? Go figure.
I don't know how that all played out, but it
was a small town in the seventies and eighties. And
I'm actually seeking a legal recourse for that right now
(14:43):
because social services completely failed me. But that's another subject.
So eventually, three months later, my mother came home. My
father was never there. My sister was of the age
eighteen or nineteen at the time she moved away. She
moved down to Toronto, where my dad was working, and
(15:05):
stayed with my grandmother. So all there was was just
me and my mother now, And when she came back,
she came back twice as were twice as bad. Now
she was sitting in her chair from till sundown, speaking
in multiple languages, cursing, swearing. Her voice would change to this,
(15:26):
to these gruff male type of voices that were arguing
with each other in different languages. And you know, I
was I was perplexed. I was puzzled, and I was terrified,
but didn't know what to do. There were times where
I was under so much duress during this situation that
(15:47):
I would go to a local park and sleep on
the picnic table and then come home because I just
didn't want to be there at nighttimes, because nighttime is
where things really really got bad for probably I don't
know six years. I weighted down my dress or drawer
full of bricks and then pushed the dresser drawer, you know,
(16:12):
the whole drawer set of drawers against my door at
nighttime when I went to bed, and I slept with
a hockey stick, you know, we're Canadians with all the
kids have hockey sticks. And I slept in the fetal position,
and I actually wore the mattress down to the springs
from the pressure from my knee, my hip, and my
my shoulder and my ankle. He divots, you know, being
(16:34):
in the same position because my mother tried to enter
enter my room every night, every night, and there was
always rattling in the night and her screaming in the
middle of the night, bloody murder and all this kind
of stuff that you know, before my sister left, I
had my I lived with my sister, but never saw her.
She came out every once in a while for food.
(16:56):
But you know, she quit school and she was living
in her room with a huge padlock on her door.
And I didn't even find that that very, very weird,
because you know, we all knew that mom was very unpredictable,
and but once she started, you know, to try and
murder us, that was you know, the uh, this situation changed,
(17:21):
and my sister fled. Anyway, things began to progress in
a very spiral decline with my mother. She began to
sit in a chair now all day long with these
voices talking and singing and arguing and you know, in
multiple voices in multiple languages. I had no idea what
(17:44):
was going on. You know, my father was never there.
He only came up for a few hours on the
weekend and took off back home, so you know, he
was never there. I witnessed very, very very little of this,
and she was She began to hit herself with a
log across the chest, sometimes for ten twelve hours a day,
(18:06):
until she was red and bloody. And this never stopped.
It went on and on every day. I would try
to go over to friend's house for the weekend, you know,
thirty minutes away or so, and I would come back,
you know, I'd ride my bike up there, and on
my way back, I would park my bike and the
windows would be open, and I could hear the thuds
(18:27):
from outside, and I would go in the house and
there she was, you know, whacking herself with this big log,
actually set the house on fire several times, and never
stopped her shanniganstead of hitting herself and cursing and swearing
and yelling, and while the fireman came right into our
living room. It was the most bizarre thing. But as
(18:50):
I look back on it, it was bizarre. But at
the time it was, you know, I didn't really think
anything of it, you know, And it was it was
a terrifying twelve year old ordeal. And it came to
the head one afternoon. It was I think it was
in the summertime. I was in the summertime and I
(19:10):
was coming home from a from a long bike ride
because I frequently just went out into nature and just
you know, sometimes I slept out the park and that
kind of thing, and you know, being out in nature
was therapy that I needed. And at this by this time,
I was in high school and I was really beginning
to lose my mind. I was beginning to fail classes
(19:32):
and not show up to school anymore. And you know it,
it was really weird that no one from school like
tried to contact us, or you know, back then, you
didn't have answering machines, so you just had a phone
in or rang and rang and rang and rang. Nobody
answered it. You know, the people gave up, but so
little was done to help me since it was just
(19:57):
me at that point. Now that it was unbelieve believable,
now that I look back on it and see what
what a travesty it really was for a child to
be in that situation no help, even though all the
neighbors knew what was going on. I'm not sure they
knew that she was demonically possessed, but such was the case.
(20:18):
But she would go and knock on their doors and
say in a gruff you know man's voice that she
was going to cut their heads off. I mean, this
is the kind of thing that went on, you know, daily,
So the police were at our house all the time
and nothing was ever done. And not that you know.
When I was a child, I you know, realized that
(20:39):
anything should be done because I didn't know how the
world worked. But now as an adult, and with the
suffering that I have now from severe PTSD, for the
last forty years, I haven't been able to have a
full time job or or be able to socialize that
much with people. You know. I hate you know, loud
(21:00):
bangs and all kinds of crazy lights and stuff like that,
and it's just been such a horrible struggle. But I
think I was sixteen at the time when this thing
came to a head, and I was thinking, it's going
to be either my mother or meat. One of us
is going to kill each other, because this was NonStop
(21:22):
every day, and I was becoming very, very terrified, and
my body chemistry changed so bad that even after I
left this situation, I didn't go through puberty until I
was like twenty one because my chemistry was so out
of whack. But I remember one day coming home and
(21:44):
then I parked my bike upstairs and came down the
stairs into the basement. We have two sets of stairs,
one set from inside the house going down to the basement,
one set from outside the house. And I came down
the stairs and I saw my mother. That let me
just back up a bit. She had been for the
last many years, been eating like a ravenous animal. And
(22:08):
my father had to put what little food we had
in one of those big freezers, you know, the kind
that could hold a body. They're pretty big, and he
put a chain on it because she was eating us
out of house and home. That you know, for the
last several years, I was stealing, stealing food at kids
(22:28):
lunches at school, and you know, eating apples on the
road and all this kind of stuff to stay alive.
It was, it was, It was just insanity now that
I look back at how I was surviving like a
feral kid. And so this day when I came downstairs,
(22:50):
I saw my mother with a hacksaw trying to cut
the chain off off the freezer. And my initial reaction
was I just yelled out hey, And she was bent
over and she just cocked her head to look at me.
All her hair was in her eyes. I mean, I
need to give you a picture of her. At this time.
(23:11):
She was extremely unkept. She stunk to high heaven. All
her teeth were broken. She would, you know, when I
would walk across the living room, she would wag her
tongue at me and go, you know, like a deaf
mute type of person. But you know, she spoke, and
(23:31):
you know, was having these conversations all day long. You know.
So all her teeth were broken, all her molars, her
front teeth, everything was chipped, and her tongue was all
serrated on both sides because of her biting it or whatever,
because of all her broken teeth. And at this point
she was she was four to eleven, and she weighed
(23:55):
excess of two hundred and fifty pounds. She was extremely obese.
And that moment when I yelled at her at the basement,
I said, hey, she looked at me and she was
growling at me with this very low voice. I mean,
she's four to eleven. Her normal speaking voice, which I
had heard in decades, was high because she was so
(24:18):
short that she looked at me, she growled at me
with this gruff man's voice, clearly not her own she
threw down the hacksaw and then ran upstairs. And for
some reason, because I was like drawn like a moth,
I wanted this to end, so I wanted a conflict,
so I chased her up the stairs. She actually beat
(24:40):
me up the stairs, which was she was very cumbersome
and heavy, but at that moment, she sprang those stairs
and I was in like shock, and I chased her.
She outrhanded me, went to her bedroom and slammed the door.
And looking at the door, and all I hear is
(25:01):
it begin to crack a little bit as it's bulging out,
and she's holding the doorknob. And you know, I'm by
that time, sixteen seventeen years old, I'm like sixty, you know,
one hundred and thirty pounds. I was pretty skinny kid
because I was starving to death. But I was very nimble,
(25:23):
and you know, I presumed stronger than her. I tried
to turn the doorknob, but I couldn't turn the doorknob,
and I could hear her growling behind the door, which
was freaking me out. But I knew that this had
to come to a head. This had to end, because
my mental status was I was breaking down. I was
(25:46):
even contemplating doing a you know, some sort of suicide
note or you know something at my high school. You
know how kids do to reach out for help, you know,
when they don't realize they need help. Anyway, I was
standing at the door, and I was waiting, you know,
to gain entrance, and all of a sudden, the door
(26:09):
started to bow back to its original position, and I
saw the doorknob went limp. So I kind of wringed
my hands a little bit, rubbed my hands together, and
went and swung the door. When they when I swung
the door open, my mother was standing there, growling at
me with these black eyes. She had no pupil and
(26:32):
the left side of her eyebrow was bulging back and
forth about i'd say three quarters the size of a
golf ball from the top of her her eyebrow on
the very left side to her temple, you know, much
like you would. I always say. It's like, you know,
if you're you know, holding a balloon really tight and
(26:53):
you squeeze one side of the balloon and it bulges
out the other. Well, that's what was going on with
her forehead and her jet black eyes and her browling
at me in this you know, inhuman voice, that did it.
That freaked me out. I started running, she started chasing me.
(27:13):
I ran outside once again. I left all the doors open.
I ran outside onto the driveway, to the end of
the driveway, and I'd noticed that she wasn't following me.
And then all of a sudden, I heard the slam
of her bedroom door that shook all the panes of
the windows in our entire house so violently. I thought
(27:36):
that they were gonna, you know, they were going to burst.
So I'm standing at the end of the driveway trying
to contemplate what I just heard and saw, taking this
experience in and I'm I'm sitting at the driveway and
I'm saying, okay, I need to just say a word,
say a word out loud. And I was like, I
(27:57):
couldn't breathe, and I was I was in absolute, you know,
an absolute state of shock is the only way I
could put it. And I realized that this was a
Saturday afternoon, one of the small increments of time that
my father happened to be to be in town, and
(28:18):
I knew where he was, and I knew the phone number.
So I went through the door I reached in we
had a you know, back in those days, it was
a dial phone and rotary, and it was just inside
the door of the mudroom in the living room. So
I reached in, I grabbed that had a long, long cord,
and I proceeded to take it outside on the front
(28:41):
porch and I tried to dial the number where my
dad was at. And it took me, I would say,
fifteen to twenty minutes because I was in such shock.
My hand was shaking so bad. I couldn't get my
finger in the hole and I couldn't get you know,
do the right numbers. And when you've got to do
you know, you know, seven numbers all in a row perfectly,
(29:05):
it was very hard for me to do because my fingers,
my hand was trembling, so that when I was successful
in dialing the number, the lady answered and she recognized
my voice and she called my dad, and my dad.
My dad got on the phone and he said, what's
(29:26):
going on? What's going on? And I couldn't say anything.
I was still good, So he said, okay, I'm coming home.
So within a minute I knew he was just about
a mile away. He came home and I tried to
talk I still couldn't talk. I was in such shock.
So he began to walk towards the front door, and
(29:46):
I followed him. When he got in the mudroom and
opened the next door to the living room, my mother
was standing there. Be it four to eleven. She grabbed
my father, who was five eight five then fired eight
hundred and sixty hundred and seventy pounds. She grabbed him
by the arms of the shoulders somewhere and now I
couldn't see because I was behind him, and he went
(30:08):
flying to the ground, and she jumped on top of
him and began scratching maniacally at his face and growling.
And I was just standing there shaking. I didn't know
what to what to do. I didn't know I was.
I was in absolute panic, you know, shaking, holding my
face and you know, clenching my fist. I didn't know
(30:30):
what to do. A couple of minutes of that, my
dad was able to break three break free, and he
ran outside. And the second he ran outside, I ran
outside with him. And that was the first time I
saw my dad in a state of shock. He realized
that this was not the wife that he had married,
(30:50):
you know, twenty five years ago. Or twenty years ago, whatever,
but he was completely in shock and were standing out
there on the driveway and then he he you know,
because I had the phone out there, he grabbed the
phone and he called the police department, and the police
department called the mental institution, and all these people show
(31:14):
up in my driveway. I've got a couple of police cars.
I've got the mental Institution. It's kind of like a
big it looks like a swat vehicle, except it's white,
a swat vehicle like today, like a big box. And
that wasn't an ambulance. It was like this big box.
(31:35):
And you know, they you know, proceed in the house.
You know, they didn't even barely. They didn't talk to
me because I couldn't even speak. It said something to
my dad, and then they went, several of them went
inside and went into my mother's rooms. Now, my mother's
room's window was open and it was facing the driveway,
so I could easily hear them. And that was the
(31:58):
first time in my sixteen seventeen years of living that
I heard my mom's natural speaking voice. And they said
to her, you know what's going on here, you know,
missus Gagliardi and I heard her say, you know nothing, officer,
I don't understand. I don't understand why you guys are
here and what's going on. And I was like dumbfounded,
(32:21):
absolutely dumbfounded. I had they had been at our house,
the police many times before, but they had taken us
all into separate rooms and would discussing, so I wasn't
really able to hear her voice. But I remember my
sister telling me something that she talked in a normal
voice when the authorities got there, which was very puzzling. Anyway,
(32:43):
probably fifteen minutes later, they brought her out in a
straight jacket, loaded her up into the big, the big
box white truck, and they took her away, and my
father and me kind of In fact, we've never talked
about it to this day. From that day that had happened,
(33:05):
we've never said a word to each other about it
because it was so traumatic and it was so unearthly,
and we've never said a word to this day. But
the interesting thing is that after three months, my dad
informed me that she was coming back, and I was
in shock that they were going to bring her back.
(33:27):
After this, you know, all of these times that the
police had come over the mental as jish lower. We
got attempted murder. Social Services isn't doing anything. Nobody's doing nothing.
And they brought her. They brought her back. Three months later,
they brought her back, and I was beside myself, and
(33:48):
I didn't know what to do. I really didn't know
what to do. I was completely completely stupefied by the
whole thing.
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Speaker 1 (35:13):
I made plans. I made plans to leave. I had
went down. My sister was living in Toronto at that time.
She had left a few years earlier, and I had
made plans to go down and live with her, and
my father sold the house and got my mother in an
(35:34):
apartment about in a town about a half an hour away.
And what it happened was I came back. I went
down to Toronto, and I got a job and I
made some money because I was going to leave for California.
That's how I ended up in California. I wanted to
leave the whole country. I wanted to leave this this
psychosis behind me. And I didn't even care if I
(35:56):
was homeless, which ended up I was. But three days
before I was going to leave get on a plane
and go to California, my dad asked me if I
wanted to see my mother, and I said, yeah, I'll
see her one more time. So we drove to her apartment.
It was on a main street of a little town.
I went up the stairs. I knocked on the door.
(36:19):
She opened the door. She never even looked at me.
It's as if she knew I was coming. She turned around.
She never said a word to me. I walked in.
I followed her. She went into her bedroom. She sat
down on her bed, reached over and from the night stand,
there's a little drawer there. She reached over, grabbed me
(36:40):
an envelope, handed it to me, put her feet up
on the bed, laid down, and then started going into
these and in these foreign languages and arguing. At that minute,
I stood up and I was like, I can't do this.
I can't do this. I was so traumatized by it.
(37:00):
So I went downstairs, got in my dad's car, and
we went home. A few days later, I left for California.
And I had been in California, I think while I
was homeless underneath the Santa Monica Pier, which is the
second part of my book that picks up after I
(37:21):
left Canada. But I had been in California for like
two weeks. I didn't know anybody. I had met somebody
there and I let my cousins know the phone number
that I was at. They told my dad, you know,
and then I got a phone call two weeks later
from the friend that I was staying at saying that
(37:42):
my mother had died, and I said, oh, okay. I
wasn't shocked by it at any means because she was
extremely obese, and so I asked them, you know what happened,
and they said, well, it looks like she died of
a heart attack. The found her. She was decomposing, you know,
(38:02):
she died in her apartment building by herself, and the
neighbors could smell the decomposing body. So they told me.
They placed the date of death there was if I
can remember correctly, it was it was the Monday April.
(38:23):
The Monday. It was either the Monday after April or
the Good Friday, I can't remember, but it was on
the exact same day that I left for California. So
it was very I'm not going to say coincidental that
these evil entities took control of for a purpose. And
I really believe now that in the last thirty years
(38:45):
of my life, I've studied demonology in the Bible and
come to the conclusion that I realized now that I
was the target. It wasn't my sister, it wasn't my father,
it wasn't my mother. She was just the poor, you know,
sad vessel. You know, that opened up her life to
(39:07):
a wicked entity. And because that's what they want to do,
they want to destroy. They've come to destroy, kill a steel.
And this is that's the ending of my first book,
The Devil Take the Hindmost and then Devil Take the
High Most. Part two, the Aftermath. It starts when I
came to California and most people ask me, you know,
(39:29):
when we get to this part. They asked me, so,
you know, did you have a sense of relief? Well,
I'll tell you when I ended up on I ended
up on the Santa Monica Pier. And the reason why
I ended up on the Satamonica peer was because of
watching Three's Company, and I think it was the fifth
season intro to that where they're walking on the pier
(39:51):
and when they're walking away, you see a hotel in
the background. I think it's a Howard Johnson or hotel.
I don't remember what it was, but I to myself, well, okay,
that must be real. That's not a sound stage or something,
So that's where I'm going to go. So when I
actually landed in Santa Monica, I walked out to the beach.
(40:13):
I took my shoes off. I think it was ten
o'clock in the morning. There was nobody on the beach.
It was in April, and I took my shoes off,
I took my socks off, and put my gym bag
down and put my head against it and I laid down,
and for the first time I felt relieved in my
entire life. I felt that no one knew where I
was because we didn't have cell phones back then, and
(40:33):
I was free. It lasted about ten minutes and then
this overwhelming wave of fear came over me. What do
I do next? And that's pretty much the beginning of
the second story, the second part of my book, and
that second part has a lot to do with what
(40:55):
happened to me after that. I look at the first
book in part you know, when I was going through it,
it was terrible, it was horrific, but what was to
come was worse. And now I had to deal with
this broken brain, this seemingly confused young adult at nineteen
(41:20):
years old. I have no identity I don't know who
I am. I have insomnia and depression and how am
I going to live life? A lot of people ask me,
you know, how were we able to come out here homeless?
I said, well, from what I came from, that was
a joy. It was a joy to be homeless. It's
not like I was in Canada freezing to death. You know,
(41:42):
I was in Santa Monica, you know, a place that
I enjoyed watching on TV and the weather was beautiful.
And that's part two of the story, and I'm not
sure if we have time for that, but this is
the story thus far.
Speaker 2 (41:59):
Thank you cool.
Speaker 1 (42:00):
It's a pleasure.
Speaker 2 (42:02):
I think it's very difficult for people to comprehend, you know,
the trauma you experienced, you know, such a young age, Yeah,
twelve years and even though you finally made out of
Canada and heads to California, you know, it wasn't in
the end, was it? You know, you everything that you'd
experienced and the love and the nurture, which you know
(42:22):
you've been denied. You had another long road view, wasn't it?
Speaker 1 (42:26):
Yes? And in fact, you know, it wasn't until I
met my wife, who really was a model for what
love meant because you know, love is two ways. If
you don't recognize it, you don't know what it is.
And if you can't recognize it, you can't give it either.
And you know, to this day, I mean, you know,
I told you off air that you know I'm having
(42:48):
you know, some bad PTSD symptoms today because I've had
them for forty years. Still to this day, I go
to sleep with my face almost completely numb, and I
have to medicate or ilse. I'll pass out from the
anxiety and the stress of nighttime, and I wake up
with my faith all numb, and I have to take
other medication to help with that so that I can
(43:11):
wake up and be somewhat functional. And you know, and
every time I tell these stories, I mean, you can't
see it because this is just audio, but I mean
I'm shaking right now. I mean just they're triggers, you know,
anytime I talk about it. But I'm happy to talk
about it because my children said, you've got to put
this book out because just like you always tell us, Dad,
(43:32):
that there was no one for you, no one would understand,
nobody help that maybe somebody who has maybe a similar experience,
you know, could understand that you know this isn't normal
and you need to reach out, you know, because I
didn't recognize that anything was wrong in our home. You know,
I grew up with it since I was a little kid.
(43:53):
And it's kind of like the proverbial frog and the
boiling water. You know, you don't understand that this isn't wrong.
Nobody's stepping into help. That kind of clarifies that, you know.
Speaker 2 (44:04):
I mean, right in writing the books as well, I
mean you're also I mean you're not only you getting
it on paper and it's it is a former release
for you. You know, you're also educating people that you
know are going through experiences like this, whether you know
it's a family member, someone close to them, and you're right,
you know they if there's no way to reach out,
no one's going to believe you, and there's no help
(44:26):
out there, really is there, you know? I mean, I mean,
your mother was released after three months from psychiatric care.
It makes you wonder twice exactly. It makes you wonder
whether you know you said she would speak in a
normal voice when there are officials around, when there's a
fority around. Yeah, it's quite possible that you know, when
she was in the institute. She was blagging them, So
(44:48):
everything seems normal and fine, then a minute she's out,
you know, problems again.
Speaker 1 (44:53):
Yes, yeah, it was very much like that. And you know,
I ended up having talking to a guy who was
happened to be an exorcist in Canada during the seventies
and eighties, and he told me that that was protocol
to let her go. And he said, what that means
is that she did something beyond their diagnosis in the
(45:16):
mental institution. And when it goes beyond their diagnosis, they
can't treat something they can't understand. And that's kind of
how the policies were, you know, back then. That's why
they let her go, which seems ludicrous, you know, from
attempted murder you know, on minors. But he said that
was the protocol. So when I was researching, you know,
(45:38):
to do this book, I ended up calling the very
mental institution that she was in and I asked for
the records and I got a lady in archives and
she said to me. She said to me, okay, you
know what year And I said it would have been,
you know, mid seventies to mid eighties, and she says, oh,
we would have thrown those those those records away and
(46:00):
she said, well, just fir's for curiosity, just give me
her name. So I gave the lady my mother's name
and she goes, you know, I hear clacking on the keys,
and she goes, well, that's weird. She goes, all her
records are archives off campus, and I said, well, can
you retrieve them for me? And she says, yes, I'll
do that. She says there's a thirty five dollars fee,
(46:21):
and I said great. I said, no problem. I said,
here's my phone number, call me when you retrieve them. Okay,
no problem, mister gagwahardy bye. A few days go by,
a week goes by, two weeks go by. I hear nothing.
So I ended up calling there and I didn't get
the lady's name. I end up calling and I'm asking
for these records the second time and they're like, well,
(46:42):
those records don't exist. Nobody knows anything. And I'm like, so,
what's going on here. They told me that they were
off campus and they said no, there's nothing here. So,
you know, it's like all the leads get cut, you know.
Speaker 2 (47:00):
Off campus. It was obviously being studied in some form
because it was different, something everyone't used to.
Speaker 1 (47:06):
Yeah, I mean that's what the guy. The guy told me,
he said, you know, policy in those days would have
been that if she did something beyond the diagnosis of
the doctors, then they wouldn't know what to do. That's
probably archive records, but they existed on one day and
(47:27):
then they didn't exist the next yea.
Speaker 2 (47:30):
Things would have been very different if she'd actually got
the you know, the real help she probably needed, you know,
whether it's religious or spiritual help.
Speaker 1 (47:37):
Yeah, and that's the thing no one interjected. I mean,
the police were at our house all the time. I mean,
she tried to burn the house down probably nine times.
I mean, come on, you know, I mean, and the
police were always at our house. And then the mental
institution is at our house and nobody does nothing. And
(47:57):
the thing that makes me so angry is that Social
services never did nothing to help my I mean, my
sister was older and ended up leaving. I mean, she
was traumatized by this too, but I got the brunt
of it, and Social Services never did nothing. I mean,
if this case happened today, I mean, it would be
(48:17):
on the news, it would be on CNN, it would
be worldwide. You know, and I can't understand how they
could even back then, I still can't understand how they
could let a child live in a house like that,
knowing that they had so many reports of the neighbors
calling the police because she was, you know, terrorizing the neighbors,
(48:39):
and all of these records from you know, the local
authorities and the mental institutions, you know, and doing nothing.
Speaker 2 (48:47):
I mean, there was weekly red flags something something was wrong.
Speaker 1 (48:53):
Yeah, and it only escalated as I got into high school.
It only escalated. I mean I was writing my own,
my own notes to not be at school. I'm him, really,
And then when I ended up quitting school one month
before graduation, they sent me down to the counselors and
the counselor said to me, is this what you want
(49:14):
to do? And I said yes, and she said okay. Then,
I mean there was there was no prying, you know,
into my life, my family's life, whatsoever. I mean, it
was like on all accounts, the ball was dropped and
the dirt was swept underneath the ruck.
Speaker 2 (49:36):
But fair played you though, for coming out of all this,
you know, level headed. I know you have issues you're
dealing with and you probably will forever be dealing with these,
you know, but fair play for dealing with it. And
you're also you have found some solace in music as well.
You're a Latin famenco and smooth jazz guitarist.
Speaker 1 (49:57):
Yeah, that's kind of how I make my money because
you know, I can't. I can't hold a nine to
five job for out forty hours a week. I just
I'm not I'm not going to stay stable. But it's
my you know, the symptoms of my PTSD don't allow me,
you know. I mean I've passed out in the past
(50:17):
three or four years, maybe twelve times, you know, because
I can't deal with stressful situations, you know, and my
body just shuts off. That's immediately what it does. It
goes straight to my brain and it just shuts me
down and I just pass out right there. And if
you obviously got help for this, well yeah, I mean,
I'm you know, I don't know really what kind of
(50:39):
help it is. It's just masking the problem. It's just
a I have a general physician that has given me,
you know, your normal stuff like anti depressants and you know,
stuff to sleep with, but you know, it doesn't cure
my symptoms, you know, and the thing that I'm so
angry about is is that it ruined my life. I
(51:00):
mean I never hadn't had a chance to have a career,
you know, to have to have, you know, a normal life.
I mean I don't own a house, you know, I
don't own anything. You know. I've been totally dismantled by
this mental abuse as a child, which was unnecessary, difficult. Yeah,
(51:20):
that's been and it continues to be. But you know,
I try to make the best of it. You know,
I'm blessed with having two girls and six grandchildren. You know,
I'll tell you something interesting. It's my kids that really
got me to write this book because you know, they
(51:40):
have kids, and you know, we don't really have time
to sit down over dinner and talk about this stuff,
and it's not a subject that it's pleasant to begin with.
But you know, I wrote it as kind of a legacy,
so you know, when you've got time and you want
to know what happened to you know, dear old dad,
here's here's what happened. And my grandkids too. But my
(52:00):
kids really pushed me to dad, you've got to put
this out public and kind of what put it over
the top, which you know, Maye go, yes, I'm going
to make this public. Was a guy from your area,
a guy by the name of Marty Stalker from from Belfast.
I had seen his documentary Hostage to the Devil with
(52:24):
Malachi Martin, you know, the film about MALACKI Martin and
I had watched that, and I and I had just
you know, I said, oh my gosh, my mother had
all those same characteristics, you know. And so I had
reached out to him, thinking, you know, maybe i'll because
he seems so sympathetic in his documentary. And I said, well, well,
(52:46):
maybe here's a guy I could I could kind of
relate to. You know, children of trauma, they they have
such a hard time finding other people to relate to.
I mean, I don't nobody that has a story like this.
So I see like such a loaner, you know, like
nobody gets me, nobody understands me, because I look at
the world different. I see things different, you know. So
(53:09):
I reached out to Marty and and Marty said, yeah,
I'll take a look at it. So I sent him
my manuscript and I think I sent it to him
on a Friday, and he contacted me on Monday, and
he said Michael, you know, this is the craziest story
I've ever heard, because obviously you know the book, I
go into a greater detail, and there's a lot of
(53:29):
stuff I left out of the book just because it's
too horrible, you know, to talk about it. I mean,
I didn't feel like I had to put everything out there.
I mean, it's bad enough having to, you know, to
read what is already there. But he was like a
pivotal point in and being somebody other than my family
(53:49):
members who believed me. Because that's part of the stigma
of coming out with a story like this is that,
you know, people say, oh, you're just doing it to
books or or you know, for attention, and I'm like,
I'm the last person that wants attention. I mean I hide,
you know, I don't want anything to do with people.
(54:10):
I hide, even though it's weird that I play music,
but you know, I play music, and then when I'm done,
I'm like Neil Perk who runs out of the runs
out from the gig and jumps in his car and
takes off. I don't hang around. I don't party, I
don't socialize, I don't do anything like that because I
just can't you know, my mind just doesn't work like that.
So it's been it's been a great struggle. But i'm
(54:32):
i'm I'm very grateful for Marty for giving me, you know,
his you know kind of seal of approval. You know,
he kind of told me, he said, Michael, you got
to put it out there, just like your kids said.
There could be somebody that's going through this because all
of these stories are all under the radar, either because
they're not believed or you know, they're not accepted in society,
(54:56):
you know, because news won't cover it or what have you.
It's a very difficult position to be in.
Speaker 2 (55:02):
And there's something that does occur. Obviously it's blown out
of portion with Hollywood and the moves and but you know,
these accounts do happen all over the world and it's
not something which happened back in the seventies and eighties.
Even to this day, it still goes on. Yes, and
all of it stems from dabbling with the occult.
Speaker 1 (55:18):
Basically, yes, you are so so correct. There's always some
sort of entry points, you know, and it's it's usually
a cult occultism, Satanism, Luciferianism. You know, the one thing
that this my experience has gained me is that now
I go around speaking about this thing. I've been studying
it for you know, thirty thirty some years now and
(55:42):
quite knowledgeable on a lot of this, a lot of
this stuff and paranormal you know, the TV shows that
you see on TV about the paranormal stuff like that.
It's entertainment, you know, it's entertainment. You know, some of
it might be might be a little bit a little
bit of true there, but it's totally hyped. It's totally
(56:03):
you know. The real stuff is what goes on behind
the scenes that you know, nobody wants to be seen,
you know, and unfortunately the victims of that are the
ones that even though they reach out, you know, it's
like you're drowning. I always used to think of myself
as a guy who's out in the middle of the
seat with my hand up and all these boats are
going by, and everybody's looking at me, but nobody does anything.
Speaker 2 (56:26):
Michael, what advice do you have for anyone that's that's
going through something that you did well.
Speaker 1 (56:32):
I think that maybe things would have changed, you know,
at a young age for me if I just would
have spoke up. But like I said, I didn't know
that there was anything wrong. You know, that was mom,
you know, and you know, children of trauma, and you know,
you've got things like what's that syndrome? You know, that's
(56:55):
your captor. You start to love your captor and stuff like.
Speaker 2 (56:58):
That, Stockholm syndrome.
Speaker 1 (57:00):
Stockholm syndrome exactly. Yeah, I mean you I never I
never went to school and said, God, you got to
see what's going on at my house. It's insane. I
never said that. In fact, I was a classic overachiever,
you know when all these academic awards got a plus's.
You know, I had stellar you know, until high school.
But you know, I would tell people, you know, if
(57:21):
something like this is going on, you need to speak up.
You need to say something, especially if there's children involved,
because they cannot defend themselves.
Speaker 2 (57:31):
There is help out there, isn't there you know, people
that will will help you, that will know exactly what
you're going through.
Speaker 1 (57:37):
Yeah. Yeah, And in fact, I think a classic case
is where you guys are the Enfield poltergeist, you know,
even though that's not a poltergeist, which was going on there,
but that's another story. But they went to the local
authorities and the local authorities, you know, came in and digation.
They thought that things were abnormal, and then they took
(57:58):
it to the next level. Unfortunately in my case, they
did nothing and they were at my house all the time.
So you know, you can't give up. You have to
speak to somebody who's going to do something, you know,
not just be a listener, but be a doer. And
because everybody's got a case. You know, if this is
happening to you, you have a case, and you need
(58:20):
to find somebody who's sympathetic to what you're going through
and you know, sees you as a victim and not
be you know, not somebody making things up, you know,
and this is part of the stigma that you've got
to fight through to find somebody that actually believed you.
Speaker 2 (58:36):
Michael, the offer of devil take the Highmost and Devil
take the high most part to the aftermath, which is
which carries on basically from the pair.
Speaker 1 (58:45):
Is that right, Yes, that's correct, wonderful.
Speaker 2 (58:48):
I will put links to Michael's books in the show
notes and also on the website, and also put his
website and his YouTube channel. You can hear Michael played
the guitar which I was listening to yesterday, and I
love this quote for me, Michael. My passion is your
emotion spoken through my instrument.
Speaker 1 (59:07):
Yes, that's it. I'm all about the passion.
Speaker 2 (59:10):
All about the passion. Wonderful.
Speaker 1 (59:12):
Thank you, Nick.
Speaker 2 (59:13):
I really appreciate you coming on today Michael and sharing
that for our listeners.
Speaker 1 (59:17):
Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it. Nick.
Speaker 2 (59:20):
You're more than welcome. And keep in touch.
Speaker 1 (59:22):
All right, all right, thank you so much, Nick, and
have a great thing.
Speaker 2 (59:25):
Take care yourself, all right, and I'll talk.
Speaker 1 (59:27):
To him to you, okay, take care that brother.
Speaker 2 (59:31):
That is all for this week. Keep updated and connected
with a show on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram. And if
you have an encounter that you'd like to share on
the podcast, you can email me at UFO Chronicles at
gmail dot com, or you can reach out to me
via the contact page on my website UFO Chronicles podcast
dot com. A big thank you to Michael for sharing tonight,
(59:53):
and thank you all for listening. I will be back
next week. Till then, stay safe and keep watching this guys. Goodbye,