Ep.348 Fire and Water

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
You'll be away five seventeen.

Speaker 2 (00:01):
Do you want to report a UFO hanging in?

Speaker 3 (00:05):
We don't want to report every thirty one.

Speaker 4 (00:08):
Do you wish to report a.

Speaker 2 (00:09):
UFO over hey, we want to one of those.

Speaker 3 (00:12):
Data areas thirty one.

Speaker 2 (00:15):
Do you wish to find a report of any kind
of it? I wouldn't know what kind of reports clouds,
time areas thirty one me neither there. See if it
was anybody above us to pass us, Like thirty seconds ago,
we were sending one top of golf negative, okay, off

(00:35):
fi the UFO. Yeah, it's murder ten nine o'clock. Yes,
I'll passed over, I go. I don't know what it was,
but it's from at least to three thousand feet above us. See,
I passed right over the top of us ninety one one.
You just called both to be be four.

Speaker 4 (00:56):
They're after staying the airplanes.

Speaker 5 (01:00):
He is.

Speaker 2 (01:02):
To God on an unidentified object, every liberty or call
or calm on an unidentified flying object.

Speaker 1 (01:15):
Welcome to UFO Chronicles, a place where people share their
experiences of the strange and unexplained. If you've had an encounter,
I would like to be on the show. You can
email me at UFO Chronicles at gmail dot com.

Speaker 6 (01:47):
Hello everyone, and welcome to this show. How are you
all doing. I'm Nick Hunter and this is the UFO
Chronicles podcast. In this episode, we meet Kelly, calling from
the state of Maryland, share her lifetime of encounters, from
childhood visions of translucent beings with hollow eyes to a
glowing football shaped light in the night sky that seemed

(02:09):
to know it was being watched. Along the way came
haunted apartments, weegi boards, and the moment she discovered the
book Communion and realized she wasn't alone in what she
had seen. These are stories of faith, fear, and persistence,
woven through decades of strange experiences that blur the lines
between spirits, aliens, and something far stranger. Kelly is up next,

(02:34):
but first, if you enjoyed the show and you would
like to help support the podcast on Patreon, you can
do this for as little as one dollar a month.
Head on over to patreon dot com forward slash UFO
Chronicles podcast. You can also find a link in the
description of this episode. Any help is very much appreciated.
Now on with the show. Kelly, Welcome to the podcast.

Speaker 3 (03:12):
Hi, Thank you.

Speaker 5 (03:14):
It is great to have you with us today and
you're calling from the state of Maryland in the US.

Speaker 3 (03:20):
Yes, I'm actually I spent most of my life in
New York, New York City, and I grew up in Pennsylvania.
So I was in New York City for thirty five
years and I've been Maryland for a month, not very long.

Speaker 5 (03:33):
That's not long at all. And do you like it?

Speaker 3 (03:35):
Yes, miss, a completely different animal, as they say, but
still you know, just as people. There's people here and
that's they have people everywhere and ghosts.

Speaker 5 (03:49):
Ah that you're certainly right there. Wonderful. Okay, Now, Kelly,
you have some experiences you're going to be sharing of us.
Would you like to start at the beginning, please, ma'am.

Speaker 3 (03:58):
Yes. What I did was I made a list of
some things that were important to me that happened and
they were basically different times in my life. So I
was born in nineteen sixty three, and so that just
gives you a timeline of when these things would have happened.
And so you know, I hesitate. I'm self editing because

(04:19):
I don't want to offend people, because I just have
my experiences and so my life, my philosophy in life
is kind of based on my experiences. It's not based
on anything. Like an example would be when I was four,
a man I think I was at some sort of
Bible school, like my parents dropped us off as like
a babysitting service, and this man came up to me

(04:41):
and he I think he was trying to present the
gospel to a four year old, and he said, you know,
if you're ever afraid or you need anything, you can
call on Jesus like that, right, And I was four,
So I was like, Okay, I got it. But then
like they also told me there was a Santa Claus
and an Easter Bunny and you know things like that.
So I mean, you could have told me anything really right,

(05:02):
But I decided to check it out one time and
it worked. The idea is that it became like my
go to or my paradigm for how I perceived my life.
And I don't know that many Christians would acknowledge me
as a Christian, but I think that my experience is
that I believe in Jesus. But what happens is I

(05:22):
realized when I was preparing for this that I have
a whole timeline of experiences where Jesus just sort of
showed up or helped or whatever like whatever. Jesus. I
believe Jesus was an actual person, but I think that
he had a very paranormal existence. And I started reading
the Bible, and the Bible is very paranormal, right. I

(05:45):
mean you can't even open it anywhere just randomly and
not find some crazy paranormal reference, right, And so people
ask the question, you know, are we alone? But I
think many ancient texts, like even there's a man called
Finkl and he works for the British Museum and he's
the head of the Cuneiform collection, and he's been translating them, right,

(06:09):
he reads corneiform, and he has something like nine hundred
tablets and they're all what he calls exorcism tablets. And apparently,
like at some time in the distant past, people had
problems with the paranormal, like with spirits bothering them, and
so they would go to a shaman or a priest

(06:29):
or someone, and then they would write like a recipe
or prescription on how to get rid of the spirit.
And so these tablets were the prescription that these was
written for these people, and then they would bury it
under their home and that's why their excavators are finding
these tablets is because they've been intentionally buried. It's a

(06:49):
great book. It's called The History of Ghosts, Doctor Irving
Finkel with an fi NK. I think it's L. E. L. Finkl.
And I actually purchased this book because on Facebook in
twenty twenty, Irving Finkel promised that he was going to
read a ghost story on Halloween from his book, and

(07:09):
he did. He read one of the excerpts from the book,
and I just thought, oh, I have to have this book.
So these tablets are six, like between three and six
thousand years old. I mean I might be misquoting that,
but they're very old tablets, and they predate the Bible,
they predate you know, lots of other and I haven't
just read the Bible. But when I was in college,

(07:31):
I was an art major, so I had the freedom
to do research, right, and so something I'll just share
because this was kind of the foundation. It became like
the foundation of my life was when I was nine.
And again this lets you know I wasn't a traditional
Christian by any stretch of the word. But when I

(07:51):
was eight, my grandmother passed away and so when I
was shortly after that, she was buried on my birthday.
So shortly after that, I was nine, and I had
this experience where I woke up. It was nighttime, obviously,
and my parents were not awake, so the house was
dark and it was quiet, and so I was going

(08:11):
to just go back to sleep, and everything was kind
of fuzzy, like the darkness was kind of fuzzy, and
I thought maybe it was my eyes, right, So I
was kind of rubbing my eyes, thinking that I just
wanted to clear my eyes and then go back to sleep.
Except at some point I started to notice in the
fuzziness of the room there was like movement, and I

(08:33):
remember thinking, like, what is this? What? What is this?
I'm awake and I don't understand what this is. And I,
you know, grew up in a time period where we
had my Favorite Martian and Bewitched and Scooby Doo, you know,
so so I understood that weird things, you know, there
were references in my culture to weird things, but I

(08:53):
had never seen anything like what I was seeing. So
they were kind of transparent and they looked like they
were made up of the light of light particles. The
fuzziness seemed like it was just light particles, and then
as they came into focus, I realized I had no
vocabulary for what I was looking at. And they had
large dark eyes that, in my understanding were just hollow sockets,

(09:18):
like just darkness, like hollow darkness, and they seemed to
be discussing something, and I don't know. Someone said to
me once maybe it was telepathy, but I understood that
they were discussing me like there. Whatever they were, whatever
it was being discussed, it had something to do with me.
And the reason I'm telling you this is because this
experience became like a foundation for me trying to figure

(09:39):
out what's going on here and how does this fit
into reality. So I remember being afraid, and I remember
closing my eyes thinking it would disappear. I remember putting
the blankets over my head, like all the typical things
that you know that I did. And then I remember
calling out to my parents and they didn't respond, and

(10:00):
I remember thinking, Okay, I'm on my own here, so
I don't understand what's going on. So I called on
Jesus and they didn't leave immediately, but I could tell
that the conversation was ending, like whatever whatever they were
discussing was coming to an end, and one of them
came over to me, and I think it made the

(10:20):
motion of like kissing me good night and tucking in
my blankets and then going back to the group, and
then the whole thing disappeared. So I'm thinking I was
trying to make sense of this, and all I could
think of was, well, maybe that's what you look like
when you die. And maybe the one that came over
and kissed me good night was my grandmother, because that's
something she would have done. And so the next day,

(10:43):
when I was helping my mother with a project and
I remembered this what happened, and I told her, I said, oh,
I think Grandma visited me last night. And I expected,
you know, an adult to say something along the lines
of oh, you were probably dreaming, but instead my mother
was very supportive and said, oh, we heard you, like
when I called for them, they heard me. She said,

(11:05):
we were hoping you would just go back to sleep,
like you were having a bad dream. And so then
when I explained it that way, using the paradigm that
you know it was my grandmother visiting me, my mother said,
you know, she was a very interesting person, and she
basically said, someday, we can talk about it when you're older.
But it was nine and I needed answers. So apparently

(11:25):
my grandmother was very much into the occult or what
people would call the occult, but it was also combined
with her Christianity. So so for her it was like
she had a Oiji board and tarot cards and a
crystal ball and she would do readings for people and
it was all a part of her culture, you know,
it wasn't I don't think it was seen as anything

(11:46):
negative or wrong. And so after this I had an
opportunity to play with her Wigi board. It's not a game,
and so I didn't encourage people to do that, but
I mean they can. I mean, I don't know. For me,
it was an opportunity where I was communicating with something
in the spirit, realm, right that I was getting answers

(12:07):
to questions that I didn't I was spelling words I
didn't even know how to spell, you know, So it
was very genuine, like I wasn't moving the plan set myself,
you know what I mean, Like its very real. So
the idea is that I didn't understand that these two
experiences could have been related, Like, it just never occurred
to me that they were connected until many years later,

(12:30):
and it is possible that they were connected. But whatever,
I communicated with new things about both sides of my family.
So I've been trying to piece the puzzle together. And
so if I'm presenting puzzle pieces, it's just because I'm
trying to piece the puzzle together. So the idea is
that between the Irvning Finkel and another man called doctor

(12:50):
Michael Heiser who passed away, but he was a Bible
scholar and he was like in his final year of
his doctorate, I think, and he read one of the
Psalms I think it was SAW eighty two in the
original language, and it just kind of popped out at

(13:11):
him as, wait this, they're talking about the Divine Council.
What's the divine council, you know? And so he wrote
a book called The Unseen Realm based on his Bible
research on the spirit realm, on supernatural and he wrote
a book called It's Supernatural that is a kind of
a shorter version of The Unseen Realm, which is very

(13:34):
long and has a lot of footnotes. So the idea
is that in the last five years, I've been piecing
the puzzle together, like more and more pieces have been
fitting together, so I kind of understand it. I have witchcraft,
I mean, if it's okay to use that word in
different directions. In my background, and so, I've actually seen
multiple incarnations of what I would call aliens, like what

(13:57):
people call grays, and I've seen them in different periods
of my life. And so the reason I'm saying that
is because when I was in college, my quest was
for answers, and so I started reading every kind of
religious book I could get my hands on looking for answers,
like basically looking for an explanation for what I had seen,

(14:20):
and I wasn't finding anything. Like I was, you know,
having a lot of interesting social interactions with different types
of people that I wasn't finding any answers. And also
whenever I would share that experience with other people, I
would just sort of get a blank look. And I
even was told to get therapy, which I did, and
the therapist basically would accuse me of like wasting their

(14:43):
time or looking for attention or trying to get meds,
you know, which I wasn't interested in any of those things.
I just wanted to know, like what was that? What
did I see when I was nine? Right, So it's
a long story, but I did make it timeline of
how things happened. But the idea is that in college,

(15:05):
while I was doing all this research, I didn't really
have too many experiences until I got into a relationship
with a guy who eventually acknowledged to me that he
was an atheist. He didn't believe in the paranormal, He
didn't believe in my experiences. He didn't believe in anything
really except people, you know, and socialism. And so I

(15:27):
started to pray because I realized that my relationship with
him was very stressful because we had two very different
perspectives on life and I had become a young socialist
and many of the members of our party get really
angry when I would mention anything about the paranormal, like
it was just such a to them, it was such
a departure from their mission, you know. But it was

(15:51):
still my bottom line, like I needed to know, you know,
what was that and like, what were those beings that
I saw in my room when I was nine. So
the idea is that this boyfriend and I were in
the process of reevaluating our relationship and one evening one night,
it was two o'clock in the morning where we were
leaving the art studio and we were walking home and

(16:14):
I noticed that he was looking up, so I looked
up to see what he was looking at, and there
was a small football shaped light in the sky and
it looked like as if you were shining a flashlight
or a search beam up into the sky what it
would look like if it hit a cloud, and it
made like a little football shape light, but there wasn't

(16:35):
Like I looked down at the ground looking for a searchlight,
and there didn't seem to be a source, Like, there
didn't seem to be a light source. So when I
look back up at this little football shaped light in
the sky, I also realized there were no clouds. And
as I looked at it, I had this really strong
feeling like it knew that I saw it. And then
it did a flip and it disappeared. So in my mind,

(16:57):
I'm thinking, well, that was strange, you know, And then
my boyfriend said to me, did you see that? And
I said yes, And then he said, did it feel
like it knew you saw it like that? And I thought, yeah,
like that's weird, right, But we never spoke about it again.
Like to him, it was just, oh wow, it's just
a weird thing that happened, and he believed that there's

(17:18):
an explanation. Even today he would say, you know, well,
there has to be an explanation. But to me, it
was very strange and it very had an impact because
I thought, how could it, looking at a small light
in the sky make us both have the same feeling
that it knew we saw it, you know what I mean, Like,
that's very strange, right. So to me, it was strange.

(17:39):
To him, it was just a blip basically. So one
day we were walking to a party and he said
to me, what if we buy a Wigi board. He said,
if we can make the Wuigi board work, he said,
maybe I could understand your experiences, and so I agreed.
I said, okay, let's buy a Wigi board, you know,

(17:59):
And we're on our way to a party and it's
in a brand new building where one of our friends
was one of the first tenants to move into this
apartment building, so most of the apartments were not occupied.
So when we made our way to the second floor
or whatever it was, and we found his door outside
his door, leaning against a wall was a Wichi board

(18:19):
in a box, and my friend said, you know, oh look,
you know so and so has a wiki board. We
don't have to buy one. And I said, oh great,
and I'm thinking that is great because I didn't really
didn't want to buy one. So we took it into
the party and we're, you know, having conversations, we're chatting
with everyone and we're drinking beer, and all of a sudden,
my ex my boyfriend said, let's try the Wiji board.

(18:41):
And I said, okay. And I'm a little leery because
I'm thinking, well, we've been drinking beer. Maybe it's not
a good idea. But I'm kind of silently praying like, okay,
let's hope this is a good thing. You know, it's
not a bad thing. And so it didn't work. Like
long story short, it did not work, and so my
boyfriend said, that's okay, said at least we tried. And

(19:01):
then he said to our friend, he said, what do
you want me to do with your Ouiji board? And
he said, oh, that's not mine. You brought that. He said, no,
it's not ours. It was leaning against the wall outside
your door. When we got here, and he said, oh,
you better put it back. Someone will be looking for it.
So my boyfriend put the wigi board back in the box,
opened the door, leaned it back against the wall outside

(19:21):
the door. There was no one in the hallway. He
closed the door, we said good night. We opened the
door to leave, and the Oigi board was gone. So
the idea is another strange thing happened. And I mean
to me it was strange, like I mean, I just
kept saying, well, where did it go? And he insisted, well,
someone must have came and taken it, but there was
no time for anyone to take it, and there were

(19:43):
no people living in the surrounding apartments. So to me,
that was a very strange situation. And to him it
was just again, it was just something that had an
explanation that we just didn't have. So I started wondering, like,
why to me is it strange? To him, it's just
nothing really, And it just seems like that's how life is,

(20:05):
because I have many of my experiences I was with
other people, but to me it was there was something
strange about it, and to them it was just well,
you know, it just is what it is. I mean,
I even lived in a haunted apartment with other people,
and you know, like the microwave would turn on by itself,
or lights would turn off and on, or just we

(20:25):
would hear each other call each other's voices, and my
friends would just sort of ignore or pretend that it
didn't happen, and then later on acknowledge that it happened,
but they would just say, well, we just don't acknowledge
those things, like it was like a personal choice of
theirs to just not acknowledge when strange things would happen.
And I started to understand that many people had their

(20:46):
own philosophies on these subjects, you know, and sometimes they
were connected to some religion or some church or you know.
But for me, it still didn't answer my questions because
the thing I saw when I was nine still did
not have I didn't have a vocabulary for them. Actually
until I was twenty four. I think I was twenty

(21:08):
four and I was in graduate school. I had gotten
involved with a witch coven. One of my professors was
the head of a witch coven, and she had heard
me telling some of my experiences with some other students,
and she said, oh, Kelly, you just have a gift
and you just need some mentoring, and so she invited
me to join this group, which reminded me very much

(21:31):
of like going to a Bible study, except they used
other books and some of them actually brought Bibles to
the meetings. But the idea is, I guess that in
the New Testament, there's the Holy Spirit is a part
of I guess what Jesus did, and the Holy Spirit
gives people gifts, and one of the gifts is discerning

(21:52):
of spirits. I had never heard of that, and so
here I was in this sort of witch coven and
they were explaining this to me, and she said that
I had the gift of discerning spirits and that she
would help me with it. And meanwhile, like strange things
started happening in people's homes on campus, in our studios.
People were blaming me for it because I was the

(22:15):
one who initially was talking about these things. I didn't
know what to tell people like I was just as
baffled as they were. And I was in a grocery
store with a new boyfriend and he said to me,
you know you're an artist, why don't you draw what
you've seen? And as I looked to respond to him,
there was a book on a shelf behind him, and

(22:38):
on the cover of the book was one of the
things that I had seen when I was nine, and
it was the book Communion by Whitley Striever. That was
the first time that I had a vocabulary, that I
had an understanding that someone else had seen what I
had seen. And then it turned out that other people
had seen them too. Once we had something like a
drawing to go with, it seemed like other people started

(23:00):
expressing that they had seen these They're called grays the
grays as well, and so we bought the book. We
read the book, and then things started happening from the
book to us. And that's whenever he broke up with me,
because again for some reason, people were blaming me for
these things happening. So long story short. Now that I

(23:22):
had a vocabulary, I started doing what research I could,
and I moved to New York City. And while I
was in New York City, there was something called the
Theosophy Society, and I think Whitley Strieber would speak there
periodically and for a short period of time. I think
he was Catholic, and he was associating what he saw
with the spirit realm, and then I think he has

(23:45):
since departed from that. And so the idea is that
I called on Jesus and they left. So that was
my sort of base note of like, well why did
they leave? You know what I mean, like what did
that have to do with Jesus? And so I spent
thirty five years in New York City, and I moved
probably fourteen times, and at least five of those apartments

(24:06):
were haunted. And every time I lived in a haunted apartment,
I would have strange experiences, but I would call on
Jesus and then the experiences would end. And then at
some point I got baptized, and once I was baptized,
things from the spirit realm were no longer able to
touch me physically. It created some kind of line in
the sand, you know, or barrier. But the idea is

(24:29):
that I still have I can still discern the presence
of things. And when I was in twenty nineteen, I
was living in a haunted apartment and it was interesting
because I would hear things and then I would ask
the neighbors about them, and then the neighbors would say,
you shouldn't be hearing that because that person doesn't live
here anymore. You know, or they would imply that maybe

(24:51):
the person had passed away. And in that apartment, I
also saw what I would call a Nordic white and
it wasn't able to touch me, Like at some point
it seemed like it tried to touch me and it
wasn't able to And so I kind of assume that
all these things are in the spirit realm. I don't
have words for everything, but Michael Heizer explains that in

(25:13):
Genesis six angels apparently mated with humans and they created
a hybrid, and the hybrids when they died, their souls
were stuck, like they can't go to shoal or wherever
souls go. In the Bible, and according to the Book
of Noah, which predates the Bible that the people read today,

(25:35):
these spirits were harassing and influencing the behavior of the humans.
And so Noah was basically asking God, like, what do
I do about that? What can I do about that?
And God said, well, just give the people a code
of conduct, and the code of conduct will create a
barrier between them and these spirits. And so there are

(25:58):
other cultures that refer to this, the Hammurabi code, which
predates I think the Ten Commandments, Noah's Seven Commandments predate
the Ten Commandments, and there are other cultures that they
have found, and so it makes me wonder if they
weren't addressing the same issues, like maybe the spirit realm.
I know that I have Muslim friends and Hindu friends

(26:21):
who refer to them as jin. So. I was living
in an apartment once and the landlady decided that she
wanted to do some work on the apartment while I
was still living there, and so she hired some men
to come in and do drywall. And they were at
one end of the apartment doing drywall, and I was
at the other end of the apartment just hanging out.

(26:43):
They came to me and said, you know, Kelly, were
going to lunch and we'll be back in an hour.
I said, you know, no problem. So they were back
in an hour and then they came to me and
they said, Kelly, we have a question, and we're not angry,
but we'd just like to know why you did them.
And I said, what did I do? And they went
into the room where they had put up all this

(27:04):
brand new drywall, and there was a blue crayon. There
were two blue crayon lines that ran parallel the whole
way around the just three inches down from the ceiling
and three inches out from the wall, the whole way
around the top of the wall. And they said, you know,
we were just curious why you did that. And I said, oh, well,

(27:25):
first of all, I'm short, I can't reach, and for
me to do that, I would have needed a ladder
and it would have taken forever for me to move
the ladder and go the whole way around the room,
because it was a very large room. And they said, well,
how did it get there? And I said, and I
didn't know what to say, so I just said, well,
do you believe in ghosts? And I said this apartment
is haunted and they kind of laughed. But then they

(27:48):
said you mean gin because they were from India, and
I said yeah. And then we started chatting about it,
and they started telling these stories and I told them stories.
And then we went back to the room where I
had just been and there was blue crayon scribbled all
over the wall. So I show, you know, kind of
laughed at it. But at the same time, there's always
this feeling of like, oh, this is very strange. So

(28:10):
that was that apartment before we moved into that apartment.
We found out that there was somebody making a film
about something that had happened in the apartment, So we
never did find out what exactly it was. It might
have been something violent, but the idea is that no
one in the neighborhood would ever tell us what happened.
We just lived there for six years and just lived

(28:33):
with whatever the craziness. Nothing was ever to my knowledge,
nothing was ever malicious. But I did notice that my
friends would argue. They would have terrible arguments and violent
sometimes where they would throw things at each other and scream.
After we moved out, they never or at least they've
told me they'd never fought like that. Again, they were

(28:54):
a married couple. So the idea is that I think
that sometimes spirits can people negatively. When I moved out
of that apartment, I moved into an apartment in Hell's Kitchen,
New York City with two guys that were friends of mine,
and again we would have these horrendous fights, like arguments
over dumb things where we'd be screaming at each other.

(29:16):
And then I moved out, but we had invisible dogs
and then But what was interesting is, you know, we
would all have the same impression of what was happening
in the spirit realm. So like there were invisible dogs
that would chase each other around the apartment and we
would hear them. And then there was an older woman,
an angry man, and a younger young man like a

(29:37):
younger man. And so for three different people to have
three different impressions of the exact same thing, you know,
it's kind of interesting to me. And again, you know,
you can keep looking for answers. But I moved out
of that apartment because I didn't like the way we
were behaving, Like I just felt like it was creating
a negative there was something negative going on there. And

(29:59):
I I did read a few years later a book
called Haunted New York, and that apartment was listed in
the book. And then a few years ago I googled
the address and somebody actually had a blog hashtag my
apartment is haunted. And so, I mean, it wasn't just us,

(30:20):
you know, It is the point of my sharing that
is that it wasn't just It wasn't just me, and
it wasn't just them. So at some point I had
a friend that passed away, and I didn't know that
he passed away until you know a day later. But
what happened was at the time that he would have
passed away, I had an experience where I woke up
and there was somebody walking around in my room in

(30:43):
hard sold shoes and it was a male and they
were making like a sound, like a deep sound, and
I didn't know what that was, like I was. I
just was petrified. I thought, who was in my room?
Like why is somebody in my room? And I didn't
even think to pray. I just thought, somebody's in my room,
and I don't know why they're here, and I don't

(31:05):
know if I should let them know I'm here. And
then as it started to get daylight out and I
heard the footsteps retreat over like over to where there
was like a closet area, I realized that I wasn't
sure if there was an actual person, and so I
had my roommates come in and we all looked around
and we couldn't find anyone. Then it was later that
day that I found out that my friend had passed away.

(31:28):
And one of the things about my friend. Two of
the things was he was a baritone like he's saying,
and he never wore sneakers you would call them trainers,
I think, but he always wore hard sold shoes, and
so that became like my next, Wow, what is that?
How does that work? Like? Was that really him? Or
was it you know, something else, like something imitating him?

(31:50):
Or I have no idea.

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Speaker 3 (32:56):
So I've been piecing this puzzle together and sometimes I
think I know what's going on. But then I'll hear
someone else share their story and I'll think, oh, maybe
you know, maybe that's what's going on, you know. So
I do know that the Fincal Book and the Heiser
Book were two books that really helped me out a lot,
because they seem to use ancient doctrines, like ancient documents

(33:19):
to confirm that we do live, we are not alone,
like there is a parallel universe of some type going on.
Like the Bible says that human beings are made in
God's image, and we're a flesh, We're a tent. The
Paul refers to it as a tent that houses our
spirit and our soul. And then if you choose, you

(33:41):
can ask Jesus to give you his spirit to live
with you, and so his spirit aligns with our spirit,
and then we become like Jesus, who is like super supernatural.
I mean, like there's this that he definitely was different.
There was something different about him. And according to what

(34:01):
I'm reading, is that he offers that to other people
who if they want that, they can be like him.
And I think that's kind of very supernatural, Like I
don't think that's a religious philosophy. I think that's an experiential,
supernatural thing that happens, and I think it confirms again

(34:22):
that we're not alone, and that the Bible also talks
about angels and different types of angels and principalities and
you know, just all sorts of things that we have.
I think we don't have a lot of information about.

Speaker 5 (34:36):
The Bible is just full of paranormal experiences.

Speaker 3 (34:40):
Yeah, and so I don't look at it as a religion.
I look at it as answering a lot of my
questions and also as a paranormal It's like a rules
of engagement. I think they call it, like when you're
in the military and they give you a rules of
engagement when you're going When we were going into Afghanistan,
our military were given like a rule of a list

(35:03):
of rules. Here's how you engage with the people. And
so I think that the Bible is the rules of
engagement for the paranormal realm basically. And so I read Geronimo.
Geronimo was one of the last tribal leaders to give
in to the white occupation, like you know, whenever I
guess the US was forming and they were trying to

(35:27):
accommodate the tribal people, but they were also kind of
they were trying to accommodate, it seemed that way, but
they were also trying to just take over, you know,
and put them into reservations. But I think I read
Geronimo's his biography, I guess autobiography, and he had paranormal experiences,
and he had tribe members who had what he would

(35:50):
call a near death experience where they left their bodies
and they went somewhere and then they came back. And
he discussed that with our military. And he also said
that he believed that the concept of forgiveness is more
was more appealing to him than the concept of revenge.

(36:10):
And he said the apache way was revenge, and he
said the only thing he had to show for were
three dead. He basically was always at war with the Mexicans,
and so he was constantly getting revenge, and then they
were getting revenge on him, and so he lost I
think three wives and three sets of children to that lifestyle.

(36:31):
By the time he, I guess, I don't know what
to call it, I guess retired and consented to live
on the reservation. So the idea is that he was warrior,
but he came to this understanding that forgiveness was a
better way. And so there's a man that I met

(36:51):
who was a gang member in the nineteen fifties, and
apparently he was so violent. He was such a violent
person that I met other people who said that if
you were in a movie theater, like if you paid
to go see a movie and Nicki came in with
his friends, you didn't stay. Like They literally said, you

(37:12):
didn't want to be in the dark in a room
with Nicki Kruz because he was just he was a
loose cannon basically, and he was very angry. And so
what happened. He was living this lifestyle in Brooklyn, New York,
and this pastor went into his neighborhood and was basically
preaching Jesus, and Nicki made fun of the man, like

(37:34):
he just thought, let's just be as But he had
an encounter with Jesus that he said was very real
and it changed his perspective, and he said he came
to understand himself that forgiveness was a better way of life,
like whereas before his life was all about survival and
revenge basically. And so I read one of Nicky's books,

(37:57):
and I remember thinking, like, this is supernatural, Like this
isn't like an intellectual thing. Like he didn't intellectually say, oh,
that preacher's right, you know, and I'm going to join
his team. If anything, he just thought the preacher was
crazy and he wasn't interested in aligning himself with this guy.

(38:20):
But then he had this paranormal experience that changed the
way he saw life. And now he travels around the
world like basically sharing that with other like gang members
or people, and he's experienced what they call exorcism, where
he's watched people change when I guess spirits left them.

(38:43):
And I in New York City had a few encounters
where people admitted to me they were demon possessed. And
what's interesting is I can tell the story, but I
can also I can take screenshots of texts where these
people have basically said to me, oh, yeah, I have
this spirit that I invited in and they helped me

(39:04):
with my life. But sometimes they're very abusive. And so
this one man that I met, he said, how can
I get them to stop being abusive? And it reminded
me of an interview I saw with Whitley Strieber where
he said the same thing. He I guess at one
point turned to Catholicism as an answer, like looking for answers,
but realized that these aliens that had visited him were

(39:28):
also living inside of him, and they were helping him,
like to write his books and make money, and which
is a great, you know, good a good thing for
him and also his wife. And so what happened was
I guess at some point, I don't know if it
was in twenty twenty, but they had become abusive, and
so he had to leave his home in California and

(39:49):
go live in the UK for a short period of
time to get away. And so I don't know, like
if they can't travel. I watched something called I can't
remember what it's called now. It was a TV series
Stranger Things, and they talked about something called the hive mind.
And it makes me wonder if spirits in the spirit

(40:09):
realm don't have a hive mind, because when I was
when I saw what I call the grays, they were
communicating telepathically with me. I mean I understood things that
I didn't know wouldn't have known. I mean, if they
had told me, I would have I don't know like,
I don't think I could have figured it out just
by watching their hand movements. I think I understood things

(40:31):
because there was some sort of telepathy going on. And
so the idea behind the hive mind is that spirits
maybe collectively can communicate through shared mind experiences. I don't know,
it's just something recently that I heard and then I
saw it on Stranger Things. But the idea is that
in twenty twenty, a guy I met who lived in

(40:54):
West Virginia and I lived in New York, had heard
me talk about the paranormal. He called me because he
was he was looking for a girlfriend and he wanted
me to go on vacation with him, and I thought, well,
that's that's a kind of a commitment for a first date.
So I was trying to do the I Love Lucy
thing where I was like, how can I get out
of this? And so I started to share with him

(41:16):
some stories, like you know, about seeing the aliens or
some of the haunted houses that I lived in, and
some of the other experiences. He said, Oh, I don't
have a problem with the paranormal, he said, but I
just can't talk about it because I have three PhDs.
And he said my and my job. You know, people
would not respect me if they thought that I, you know,

(41:38):
similar to what you had shared with me earlier. And
so I said to him that I think that they're
all related to the spirit realm, and he said that
he did not agree, which you know, is fine. I mean,
no one has to agree with me. But as we
were hanging up the phone, I just prayed and I said, well, Jesus,
you'll have to show him because I can't. You know,
I don't know, and maybe I'm wrong, like maybe I
need to be shown. So I say hung up with

(42:00):
I went to sleep, and around three in the morning
I woke up and there was like something walking through
my room and it was dragging. It sounded like claws
dragging on the ground. And my third first thought was
I was just my roommate with her slippers. But then
something leaned in in the darkness and growled at me,
like near my face, and I thought, oh, it's something

(42:22):
in the spirit realm and it's posturing. And so I
just went back to sleep, not thinking about it. And
then the next morning he texted me and he said, oh, no,
we need to speak, and we need to talk. And
it turned out that he had it what he thought
was a dream, and in the dream, these aliens showed up.
At first, he thought they were examining him, like as
a specimen, and he was kind of like happy about it,

(42:45):
like he thought, oh, this is cool. They think I'm
worthy of examining. But then they started doing painful, torturing
type things and they were laughing, and he said, at
one point when he couldn't fight back, he thought, oh,
they're torturing me, like there, this is not good, and
this is a very negative experience, and he was kind
of traumatized. And then he said the next morning when

(43:06):
he woke up was when he texted me, and that
was before he realized that he had cuts and bruises
everywhere on his body, that they had been examining him,
and that his pajamas were on the other side of
the room in a place where he wouldn't have put
his pajamas for any reason. So he was kind of
in a panic, and his interest in me kind of

(43:27):
waned as well. All of a sudden. It was kind
of like again blaming me maybe for this happening. But
I explained to him, you know, I said, it's up
to you. How you perceive it and what vocabulary you
choose to go with. But I say, I go with Jesus,
like I just choose Jesus. I mean, that's just my
go to. And so he got baptized, but until he

(43:49):
got baptized, these spirits were attacking him. So he had
black eyes, he had a concussion. He sent me photos
of all these things, and then they started messing up
around with electronics. It's a longer story, but he was
living in a hotel because of his job. He was
working on location, and it turned out all the other
guys living in the hotel were having similar experiences and

(44:12):
one of them had a dream and he said to
my friend, he said, I had a dream last night,
and he said, you were in it, and he said,
this demon walked up to me, and the demon said,
we're not here for you, meaning the man with the dream.
He said, we're here for him, and they pointed at
my friend and then he said to my friend, does
that dream mean anything to you? And my friend said,
I didn't know what to say. He said, because I didn't.

(44:35):
He said, I didn't want to acknowledge it, because again
he's like the head of the team. Thought he would
lose respect. And then it turned out that all of
them were having these experiences and they decided to do
an exorcism on the hotel. My friend said that we
all got bibles and these the Hindu people that owned
the hotel were involved as well, and so according to him,

(44:57):
everything stopped after that. But I know, I mean, I
have to go back to the hotel and ask the owners.
You know how things are now. But my understanding is
Jesus said, if you clean a house and you don't
put up barriers, then whatever you may leave will come back,
and they'll just it'll be worse because they'll bring more
of their friends. I've had. I've met people who do

(45:20):
astral projection, mostly out of boredom. But my one friend
was astro projecting once and a voice came up to
him and said him, I'm homeless and I'm dead. Can
you help me? And he basically the voice wanted to
come home with him, like to his body, and my
friend said, I didn't want that, obviously, so he just
said I went back in and he told me he

(45:41):
hasn't astral projected since. But the idea is that that's
a part of life too, you know, I mean, these
are all parts of our consciousness and our existence. Right.
I have friends that have had near death experiences. I
know four different people. Three of them I was related
to who had near death experience. Is my one great
uncle had three of them, you know, I mean, is

(46:04):
it a dream or is it real? Or is it
connected to the supernatural stuff in the Bible and all
these other texts. I don't know, but I do have peace,
and that's the best part, like for me, like I
sleep like a baby, and like even the house I'm
in right now has some spiritual issues. And I did
see a very updated version of what I would call gray,

(46:26):
but they seem to get upgraded, Like from what I
initially saw that was transparent, the next thing I saw
was a white being, and then the one I saw
recently looked more had more details, like a grasshopper, almost
like a very large grasshopper kind of I don't even
know how to describe it. But are you familiar with
the artist Geiger or Geeker g I g e Er.

Speaker 5 (46:49):
Oh, yeah, he did the design for the Aliens for
the movies.

Speaker 3 (46:53):
Yeah, So I wonder like his designs, like I wonder
if they are inspired by the spirit realm inspiring him,
and he's not aware of it, you know what I mean,
Like he might think that he's making these things up,
but they could be inspired and he might not even
know it. Because the last thing I saw spiritually here

(47:14):
in the house reminded me of one of his characters,
you know, like as opposed to what I had seen
when I was nine that was more primitive like it was,
and I did some drawings. It's not easy to draw
what you see because there's just so much more to
the experience. It's not just like for me the first
time I had the experience, it was more about the

(47:36):
atmosphere in my room had changed, and then these beings
were in the atmosphere kind of like an old television
set that was out of focus kind of thing. But
then when I saw one in twenty nineteen, again I
was living in a hunted apartment, it was more opaque
and it was white, and it was tall, and it
reached out kind of I think it was going to

(47:58):
touch me, but then it just sort of of disappeared
or exploded or something, you know, and so, and I
have not had anything touch me since I've been baptized.
I was also living in a house where a man
was practicing something called Strega, which is Italian witchcraft, and
so there always seems to be some kind of interact,
someone interacting with the with the paranormal. When I experience

(48:21):
things like my grandmother or you know, because I don't,
I don't think I and like I don't call on
things or try to contact anything because it's just not
I don't think it's fruitful for me, like it would
just be I don't know, like I don't, I don't
have a hard time trusting people, and then to have
to trust spirits on top of that, I also was

(48:42):
diagnosed with autism, and I joined an autism community, and
I realized many people on the autism spectrum have these experiences,
and many of them won't talk about it. Like I've
been researching freemasonry. I have friends who are Freemason and
they openly admit to me that they have spirit guides,
like it's a part of the process when you become

(49:03):
a Freemason is that you're offered the option to have
a spirit guide. And the native of people, the tribes
they like, I guess they like to be called tribal people.
But I watched a series of documentaries. In twenty twenty two,
a man went around interviewing all the tribes like just
you know, chatting with them, and the one thing they
all seem to have in common is that there's an

(49:25):
uptick in the paranormal and I forget which if it
was the Navajo nation. They said that the that the
Anasazi have been provoked is the way they said it,
and that they actually outlawed the practice of spirit guides
because what they discovered was that people with spirit guides

(49:45):
they made great warriors in battle, but then eventually the
guides turned on the tribe. And so the idea is
that spirit guides or the skin walkers, or that's another
I guess another term is they turned on the tribe,
and so the tribal peoples outlawed that practice, and so

(50:06):
many of them are blaming non native people are using
LSD to interact with the spirits, and they believe that
that's what's causing this disturbance in the spirit realm, and
they're not necessarily they don't promote it, like they're not
happy about it. And so I do know friends that

(50:28):
take ayahuasca, and I have had friends on LSD who
have seen like had group hallucinations. When I was in
graduate school, I think I mentioned that I was part
of a witch coven and one night I lived on
a lake, and one night a bunch of undergrads had
taken LSD together and they came up to the lake,

(50:49):
like just to hang out and look at the full moon.
But they all collectively saw something rise up out of
the water and it swooped down at them, which made
them all realize that they were not It was not
a hallucination. They were all seeing this thing swoop down
at them. And so they came to my house where
I was living, and they were knocking on the door
at three in the morning, and they also knew that

(51:11):
I would understand. And the idea was when I shared
that story in class the next day, my professor, who
was the head of the witch coven, said, oh, they
saw the demon of the lake. And she said it
very matter of factly, you know, it wasn't And to
her it was amusing because she just thought it was
amusing that these undergrads, you know, kind of accidentally interacted

(51:34):
with this demon that lived in the lake. And they
all described the same thing. They all said it had,
you know, red eyes, it had a green head, it
had wings of tail. They used different terms one set
a dragon, one set of beasts, you know, like they
had different descriptive words or they had different I guess vocabulary,
but they all used the same descriptive words when it

(51:54):
came to coloring and size. And so I've had a
very long, strange trip. I mean, I'm sixty two, so
I know I'm a little older than you are. That
the idea is, I believe that you had experiences and
something that I've found very helpful is interacting with other people.
Like there are zoom group, you know, meetups, and then

(52:15):
on Facebook, I belong to something called peer and Normal
and it's peer peer like your peers, and it's a normal,
so it's paranormal. People have experiences that get together and
share things on Facebook page, and I think I think
it's just helpful move fun. I believe also has support
groups that they you know, I haven't found any specifically

(52:38):
for people who maybe believe in Jesus. But I've been
kind of rejected by the church crowd, which I think
is just ignorance on their part, like they just or
fear like because I think a lot of Christians that
I've met are are taught that they shouldn't interact with
spiritual things. But the idea is that Jesus wants to

(52:58):
interact with us spiritually, so like, if he's giving his
Holy Spirit to me, that's a spiritual interaction. And if
I'm communicating with him, as it says in John fourteen
and also in Isaiah eleven, he's communicating with me. And
so I've had these really great experiences where in twenty twenty,
I was walking in Times Square and there was a

(53:19):
young man walking next to me, and Jesus said, this
sounds crazy when I say that, but he said, you know,
speak to that young man. And I remember thinking, oh, no,
he's going to think I'm creepy because I'm old, you know.
I didn't want to speak to him. And then he
started speaking with me, and I thought, okay, here we go.
Let's see where this goes. So I asked him, I said,
do you believe in God? And he said he wasn't

(53:40):
sure that he was kind of thinking about it, but
he wasn't sure. And then I said, well, do you
believe in aliens? And he said, oh my god, why
did you ask me that? And I just said I
think Jesus wanted me to ask you that, and he said,
can I tell you a story? And so for an
hour and a half he told me how he grew
up in Brooklyn and when he was nine, he had
this experience. And he's not the first person to tell

(54:01):
me this, but in the nineteen nineties that would have
been when this happened. He woke up and his room
was light like daylight, and he thought it was the
next day, so he got up and when he looked
out the window, it was dark. But he didn't remember
anything after that, and then he started having these experiences
where he started seeing these beings with big eyes like
I saw. And he told his parents and they took

(54:24):
him to a psychiatrist, and the psychiatrist put him on medication,
and he said the medication ruined his life, basically, And
he said, from age eleven to sixteen, he was on
medication and he hated it. So he eventually left home
and started living in the streets and he became gotten
addicted to street drugs. And when I met him in
twenty twenty, he was twenty eight and he was eight

(54:47):
months sober. And I'm having this discussion with him, telling
him that I saw them too, right, I just didn't
end up on drugs. And I said that I just
call on Jesus and they go away. And he said,
you know, my aunt tried to tell me that I
could call on Jesus, but my parents didn't believe in that,
so they believed in drugs. And he said, I think

(55:09):
you just gave me my life back, like he like,
and then this is so crazy. But like a year later,
I met someone. I was telling them what I just
told you, and they said, Kelly, I know that guy,
and they knew they knew his name, and it turned
out they lived in his building. He lived in their building,
and he said, he tells everyone that story about meeting you,

(55:29):
and he's doing great, and like he's he's you know,
he's working and had a construction job where he was
working with unions, which is a very good thing. But
the idea is that people, if they don't have a
vocabulary and they don't know what they're experiencing, it can
lead to all sorts of very negative experiences. Right, And
that's one of the reasons I decided I want to

(55:51):
be more vocal, especially in twenty twenty. Like I just
there was so much negative things going on in New
York City. That one man tried to take my back
He tried to steal my backpack, tried to take it
from me. I said that I don't have any money.
I said, but I can pray for you. And that
like opened up the conversation. And then I shared with
him how I saw Aliens, you know, when I was

(56:12):
a kid. And then he shared a story with me.
And here's a man who went from he was going
to steal my backpack to telling me his own experience,
like his own life experience. And so you know, there's
a lot of damaged people that are damaged because they
don't have the proper perspective, right, I mean, to process
their experiences in a positive way. I've met people from Argentina.

(56:37):
I've met people from Bangladesh. I've met Muslims. I've met
all people from different religions. I lived on East ninety
nine Street in Harlem. I met so many people. I
would sit on my stoop and read the Bible and
people would just stop and chat with me and tell
me their stories, and then I would I would share
my experiences. And there's just so many people having these experiences.

(56:59):
I mean, York City, East Harlem, you know, and like,
I think it's one of those things where it's an untapped,
an untapped story base. You know, you could probably just
walk down the street and speak with anyone and they're
going to give you something. Maybe this is a support group.
Like maybe I've been binging on your podcasts and I

(57:21):
still haven't heard them all. And I'm familiar with many
of the Pennsylvania locations that people have shared, and in Pennsylvania,
I've had experiences. I really believe that the house they
grew up in is in a skinwalker territory because many
of my friends that I grew up with have stories
they won't tell them. I've seen a bigfoot probably, I

(57:42):
mean I didn't know that that's what it was, but
apparently seeing a large monkey walking around the woods behind
our house counts as a bigfoot. And I remember other
stories of people out driving and they'll say they saw
something cross the road and it looked like a human.
And like, the more I tell stories, the more I
hear stories, like the more people share, and it just

(58:03):
validates the reality that these things are all interconnected in
some way.

Speaker 4 (58:16):
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Speaker 3 (59:07):
And it's one of those things too. Where I met
some Muslim men who were doing an outreach in the
neighborhood where I was living, and they were handing out Korans,
and I had read the Koran many years ago, so
I stopped to chat with them and I shared my
experience with them, and they had both had the same
experience where they had seen these beings with large, you know,

(59:28):
dark eyes and long, skinny arms. And they said that
the one guy actually left the Catholic Church and became
a Muslim because the emon or whoever was departed. I
think he said emon I acknowledged at least acknowledged his experience,
and he said, they you know, he still sees these beings,
but he said that just the acknowledgement that he wasn't crazy.

(59:51):
And like I've been in churches that would literally say, oh,
Satan isn't real, Like it's just a metaphor, you know,
And like my word satan really just means accuser. And
like Jesus referred to spirit beings as deceivers, and so
the idea is that it's not They're not all deceivers.

(01:00:12):
They're not all Satan's because there's also Cherubim and Seraphim
and all these other things. And I actually after my
father passed away, I had two experiences where I saw
what may or may not have been angels. I mean,
I don't know, because I kind of feel like things
in the spirit realm have this ability to cloak, like
they can appear how however they want to appear. And

(01:00:34):
the reason I say that is because this house I'm
living in right now, I've seen I saw a cat,
and I have three cats. There's three cats living here
with me. I know what they look like. This fourth
cat showed up one day it was terrorizing one of
the other cats and there isn't and we don't have
a cat. It looks like that, And then the other
two where it's kind of sitting wide eyed, you know,

(01:00:55):
like wondering, and I know that sometimes something chases will
chase a cat and there's nothing behind me, or like
I said, I saw what I believe was a Geiger alien.
And then when I first came to this house like
twenty years ago to visit, every night when everyone would
go to sleep, would go to bed. After everyone went
to bed, we would hear somebody go back down the stairs.

(01:01:17):
And at first I thought it was just one of
the other people going back down the stairs, until at
breakfast one day somebody said do you hear that too?
I And then I said, oh, I hear it too,
And I said, that's not you going that's not you
guys going back down the stairs. I said no. And
then the smoke detectors would do this thing where they
would chirp in like a sequence, and I said, well,

(01:01:39):
you just need to change the batteries and they said, oh,
they're brand new batteries, and three of them are brand
new smoke detectors, but they just do this chirping thing
where they'll like chirp in like a harmony or something.
So the idea is that whatever's in this house does
things like there's an old dresser in the living room.
It's probably will be over one hundred years old, and

(01:02:02):
the drawers kind of stick. But sometimes when I go
down stairs in the morning, the drawers are open, and
so I know, the cats can't open them because they're
they stick. You know, you have to kind of work
at them to get them open. Little things like that,
you know. And so I don't know. I assume it's
just one spirit, but who knows, Like maybe there's others

(01:02:22):
or maybe they invite others to come in, and you know,
I don't know, Like that's the kind of the the
unknown factor is there's no way to pin them down
and say, oh, yeah, that's what that was, or you know.
But at the same time, I took comfort in the
idea that the Bible says that people will have discernment

(01:02:43):
of spirits, like it's a gift, you know, So it's
not something to be ashamed of, and it's something that
like any gift, you know, you can receive it and
then you can work with it, I guess, or develop it,
which is what I mean. I could use her name.
She passed away recently, but excuse me. Donna was the
head of this group, and she basically said that we
could cultivate, you know, or mentor each other or grow.

(01:03:07):
And I thought that makes a lot of sense. That
makes more sense than saying it's not real or just
pretending that it's not real. And I have so many
stories and I started writing them because I have a
friend who's an atheist, and I guess it was twenty eighteen.
He said to me, I know that what you believe
is sort of like Christianity. He'said, could you write about

(01:03:28):
it for me? Because I'm becoming very hateful towards Christians
And he said, I don't hate you. And so I
started sharing my stories with him, and he said that
he's becoming a hopeful agnostic and that he was no
longer angry. But the idea is that once I started writing,
I filled I think four or five composition notebooks with

(01:03:48):
long hand writing. And I didn't realize I had so
many experiences and it was very I've had dreams that
come true. I guess they call that prophetic dreams. I mean,
it's just like Bigfoot. I guess I've seen little toarlely lights,
just all kinds of just things. On one time, I'm
home visiting my parents and I saw these little towirly

(01:04:11):
lights in the backyard. And then it turned out on
coast to coast that all over Pennsylvania people were reporting
seeing these little towirly lights and on the news they
were saying that it was lunar moths hatching. But I
didn't see a body and I didn't see wings, like
I just saw this. It just looked like a little light,
like like a flashlight in the dark, you know, without

(01:04:32):
the flashlight, like just the tip of the flashlight, like
swirling around in the in the darkness. And so I
don't know what that was, but it's interesting, you know.
I just I mean for me, I just pray, I
just because I guess it's like my go to is
Jesus said, test all spirits. Basically, I think Jesus said

(01:04:53):
it or Pulse said it. But the idea is that
you test them because you don't want something negative, you know,
like my friend had where they had bruises and cuts
and they were torturing him. Obviously, my solution for that
would have been I would have called on Jesus, but
he didn't know that. So and then eventually he got
baptized and they stopped being able to touch him, which

(01:05:14):
for some reason drew a line draws a line in
the sand. Maybe for some people, I don't know. Like again,
I'm just sharing my experience because maybe someone will have
another experience. I know one of your first podcasts there
was a tribal woman sharing her experiences and she was
talking about healing. And one time I fell off of

(01:05:35):
a porch and I heard a loud snap and I
had pain shoot up through my leg, and I knew
I was in trouble, Like I knew that I did
some damage on my foot, and I at the time
had been praying about something else, and I just put
my hands around my foot and I said, God, this
can't happen. I have all these things I have to do,
I'm supposed to start a new job tomorrow, I don't

(01:05:56):
have insurance. And I just started saying all these reasons
why this was a bad idea, and all the pain left.
It just left my foot completely. My leg, my leg,
my foot were fine. And I thought, oh wow. And
I remember saying like, did you just heal me? And
like I said that to God at the time, I
just thought God, and I said, I guess. And so

(01:06:17):
I was wearing long pants with socks and a shoe,
and I didn't actually see my foot. And so later
on that day someone called me and they said, hey,
let's go out tonight. And I took a shower, and
I put on like summer clothes, like a little pair
of sandals and a denim skirt. And I never paid
attention to my foot because it didn't hurt anymore. I'd
forgotten that i'd fallen off the porch. And when we

(01:06:39):
got to the bar, this guy who was standing at
the bar came running over to me and he said,
oh my god, what did you do to your foot?
And I looked down in my ankle and my foot
were all purple, black, blue, red, like every color bruising
it could imagine. And I said, oh, I fell off
the porch today. I forgot about that. And I'm wiggling
my foot around, you know, And I said, but I prayed,

(01:07:00):
and it's okay, and I'm showing this guy that my
foot's okay, and he starts screaming at me. He said,
stop doing that. Stop doing that. Your foot is broken.
He said, your foot is broken. I just spent an
entire semester studying bruises and your foot is broken. Please
stop doing that. You need to see a doctor. And
he would not leave me alone until I promised that
I would see a doctor. But he was so convinced

(01:07:21):
that I was in big trouble because of all the bruising,
and the bruising lasted for about six weeks. Like everywhere
I went, people would ask me, well, what did you
do to your foot? But my foot was fine, like
I was. I mean, as far as I was concerned,
it was healed. That was fine, and I wasn't impeded
in any way. But everywhere I went people saw the
bruising and they would ask me what I did, and

(01:07:43):
I would explain, you know, to tell the story. So
the idea is that I do. I believe in miracles,
I guess you could say, and I experienced them. But
at the same time, I can't put it in a box,
and like I can't put it in a bottle and
sell it like sell it to people. But the idea
is that I guess I can share my experiences and

(01:08:03):
encourage people. Jesus said, if you seek, you will find,
and so I think that's probably good advice because I mean,
in theory, I found him. But at the same time,
other people might find what they're looking for too, So
you know, I mean, you can't argue truth, I think, right,
And where there's peace, I think there's truth. And something

(01:08:26):
that I just am so thankful for is the peace aspect,
because like there was a time when I was afraid
to go to sleep. There was a time when any
time someone died, I was afraid they were going to
show up in my room and or just you know,
I was afraid to move into an apartment where there
was going to be you know, paranormal things. The apartment
I lived in in Hell's Kitchen was probably the most

(01:08:47):
violent experience, and it was the most haunted. And like
the other two guys I lived with, they wouldn't even
speak to me when I moved out because they were
hoping that I was going to do an exorcism. Yes,
like they had gone to a priest and the priest
gave them the phone number of a psychiatrist and some
holy water, and this apartment was needed more than a

(01:09:10):
psychiatrist in Holy Water. Like, I don't even know if
I think the building was torn down. I'm not sure.
It's hard to tell in New York City, And I
often thought of like sending a letter to that address
and just saying, hey, is your apartment still haunted? You know,
or like what kind of what's going on there? But
I have a friend who's an exorcist, like he does
home exorcisms, and I actually met him through Chris Lutz,

(01:09:35):
who lived in the Amityville Horror House. What's kind of
fascinating about that is that the Amityville Horror happened in
nineteen seventy four. My experience was in nineteen seventy two,
and then in I think nineteen seventy seven is when
Son of Sam happened. And then there was a third thing.
And it's almost like they could all be connected, like

(01:09:58):
they might all be related in in some way or another.
Because according to Chris, and that's his story tell not mine,
his father was actively seeking paranormal experiences, and according to
the Dafayo Ron d FAO, he actually knew mister Lutts
and they had partied together in the Bronx, which is

(01:10:20):
where the son of Sam claimed that he would participated
in the occult activities that led to his murdering people.
I mean, it could all be related, even in that respect,
and that's why I think I just pray for everyone,
because you really never know what people are going through,
like you just I mean, how many times I was

(01:10:40):
almost mugged in New York City and praying stopped. I've
never officially been mugged, but almost. I mean a man
held me up once with a broken beer bottle and
I just told him I don't have any money, and
then he ended up walking me to the subway and
telling me to get home safe. So I mean, I
definitely think that the spirit run influences us in ways

(01:11:02):
that we're maybe not aware. I guess that's for everyone
else to figure out, maybe and decide. But at the
same time, I think support groups are probably have been
really helpful to me, like just having the freedom to
share and speak just like this, like this was really
fascinating that you allowed me to do this. I'm looking

(01:11:22):
forward to listening to as many of your podcasts as
I possibly can. I mean, I could be probably binging
on them for the next year and still not hear
them all. I can through so many, there is a lot, Kelly.

Speaker 6 (01:11:35):
Indeed.

Speaker 5 (01:11:35):
Yeah, well, I think what I'm getting from you is
that you know, you have this this aura around you,
whether that's to do with the paranormal or the Christian side,
but you radiate something. I understand why people tracked to
your energy.

Speaker 3 (01:11:49):
Kelly. Oh. I mean, I've actually had people come up
to me and say, you know, you're glowing. And I remember,
like the first time it happened, I thought, what you like,
what are you talking about? And then someone explained it.
But I think what it is, Maybe it's like Jesus said,
I give you my peace, And I think that maybe
I had people say to me, everyone else looks so

(01:12:11):
stressed out, and you look like you're at rest, you're peaceful,
what's up? You know? And one time a man came
up to me when I first moved to New York
City and he said, do you mind if I ask
you a question? And I said no, obviously, right, you know,
and he said, I've been trying to curse you, and
my curses won't land. He said, can you tell me why?
And like a normal person would have probably been offended,

(01:12:34):
or thought that was like too weird, right, But he
was dressed normal, like he was just you know, like
he wasn't dressed like a crazy homeless person or something.
And I understood that my grandmother had that sort of
occupation where people not that she would curse people, but
they would pay her to take curses off of them
because someone else had put a curse on them. And
so I understood the concept. And I also understood that

(01:12:56):
this man. I understood why he would have cursed me
because I was outsider coming into New York City, you know,
and I've met priests that are in Santaria who like
this one. John Ramirez claims that someone offered him ten
thousand dollars to put a curse on a coworker, and
so I believe that this man was being genuine. So

(01:13:18):
I didn't know how to answer his question. But I
basically said, I said, is it Jesus? I said, I
love Jesus. I said maybe maybe I'm protected by Jesus.
And he just didn't have an answer, like he just
seemed completely baffled that he wasn't able to curse me.
And another time, two other times, actually people tried to
read my palm, and they weren't able to like and like.

(01:13:40):
The one guy was very well known. He was a
very well known palm reader and he had just come
from being on like the Today Show or something, and
he was shopping in the store where I was shopping,
and he said, I'd like to do a reading on you,
because you know, I'm sure you don't want to work
in a bookstore the rest of your life. And I said, okay,
you know, I agreed. I mean I didn't know. I

(01:14:02):
didn't understand the time. And he said, you know, people
pay me a lot of money for these readings, and
I said, oh. He said, I'm going to do it
for free. And I said, okay, that's great. You know,
like maybe he'll tell me, you know, I should be
a brain surgeon, not working in a bookstore. And he
wasn't able to read my poem and he was baffled.
He said, can you tell me why? But I said,

(01:14:22):
I don't know. I said, is it Jesus? I said,
I read the Bible and I love Jesus. I said,
I don't go to church. I don't really understand Christianity
because I honestly, I will be honest with you. I
don't think that the Christianity, what we call Christianity, is
what Jesus intended. I think it's what was created by
people in government that were trying to control the Jesus movement,

(01:14:44):
like they were basically trying to take control of it,
like before it got out of hand. I think especially
Constantine was afraid of Christianity because it was apparently like wildfire,
it was running through the Roman legion. And like archaeologists,
there's someone called the naked archaeologist. He's one of my

(01:15:04):
favorite archaeologists. But he did it. He went to Hadrian's Wall,
i I think in Scotland, and then he went all over
Europe and they discovered evidence that Roman soldiers were practicing
Christianity before it was legal, because early as ninety, like
the year ninety, you know, ninety, Common Era, and so

(01:15:25):
the idea is that there was there was something spiritual
going on that wasn't a religion. And then when I
guess Constantine's father, Constantius and his mother became Christian he
felt compelled to legalize it for their sake. And then

(01:15:45):
after legalizing it, he felt like he needed to control
it because they have letters that were written by early
church leaders who said, well, if I can't, if I
can't celebrate Winter Solstice, I'm not going to be a Christian.
And so they said, well, you can celebrate, just call
it Christmas, like call it like you know, just say

(01:16:05):
you're celebrating Jesus. But you can continue to practice your
pagan you know whatever. And so, like, the word Lent
actually is just German and it means spring, and the
Germane people prior to Christianity worship nature, so Lent was
actually their spring worship. And so eventually it was like, well,

(01:16:27):
can't you just tweak it a little bit and make
it about Jesus, you know. And so basically like all
these pagan holidays tweaked and they don't have any biblical basis,
and that I think that's what was confusing to me
as a child, is well, where is this in the Bible?
You know, because there's a passage where it says that
Jesus was twelve and he goes to the temple for

(01:16:50):
Passover and he ends up staying behind to discuss Torah
with the rabbis. Well, when a young Jewish boy turns thirteen,
he is allowed to discuss Torah with the rabbis, and
so obviously Jesus turned thirteen during Passover, or he wouldn't
have been able to discuss Torah with the rabbis. So

(01:17:12):
the idea is that, like, all the answers are in
the Bible if you look for them, but all these
traditions and holidays are not in the Bible. Even if
you look for them, you're not going to find them.
So it was confusing to me as a child. I
didn't understand there was a disconnect. And so once I
started exploring the Jewish Jesus, it's like the Bible took

(01:17:32):
on a whole new meaning. And then also the paranormal Jesus.
Once I embraced that and started reading the Bible, Heiser
calls it a paranormal lens, like you put on a
pair of glasses that allow you to read the Bible
from a paranormal perspective. It's a completely different book, Like

(01:17:54):
it's not about religion at all, and it's really fun,
and like the Jewish people are practicing religion because they
haven't discovered Jesus yet. But I go to a Messianic
congregation where there are Jewish believers and they they love
Jesus so much, and it's like it's so cool because
they'll say, there's nothing more Jewish than loving Messiah, you know,

(01:18:19):
machiak Jesus. And like the idea is that many Christians
don't even know that the word Christ means Messiah, like
that it's not Jesus's name, it's actually his job description.
So I mean, I think it's because of the disconnect.
That's what that happens, you know. And so I just pray,
like I mean, I just I hope. I don't know.

(01:18:40):
My hope is that God is merciful and he forgives ignorance,
you know what I mean, because if people don't know,
I mean, Jesus knows. I think Jesus basically said, I
know my sheep, know my voice, and I know my people.
And it's not about religion. I think it's you know,
and like where there's love, you know, when someone has
genuine love. I think Jesus is love, and I think

(01:19:03):
that that's related, that's connected, like you know, So I
don't I can't personally say I know what love is.
I mean, I know what it isn't and I've had
some you know, crazy experiences with humans. But at the
same time, maybe those experiences happened also because of the
spirit influence, you know, or people didn't know they were

(01:19:24):
being influenced. I'm not sure, but my but again, you know,
it's oppressed. I'm in progress. Does that make sense? Like
I'm I think Dolly Parton would say, I'm a seeker,
I'm seeking, I'm finding and product is the piece that
comes with that. And I think that's I don't always
have it, but it does happen, and it's it's probably

(01:19:44):
my favorite thing. I don't know if that makes sense.

Speaker 5 (01:19:47):
I think all of us are on a journey, all
of us are a work in progress.

Speaker 3 (01:19:52):
Absolutely, yeah, right, and then we and we'll come together
to compare notes sort of.

Speaker 5 (01:19:57):
Maybe that's it. Yeah, compare notes, but don't argue over
those notes. That's I think that's the biggest problem these days.
We're too busy, consumed with you know, just trying to
get by in this world. And I know it's saying
about it being divided. I mean this, I don't think
this world has ever been more divided than it is now.

Speaker 3 (01:20:13):
Yeah, absolutely, I agree, yes, And as a middle child,
I tend to seek to find a common ground to
bring people together as opposed to I don't promote the division.
I think the Bible would say there are fruitful things
and then there are things that don't produce good fruit.
Like you want to produce. You want to seek things

(01:20:34):
that produce good fruit and that negative fruit. Yeah, I don't.
I don't see the benefit. But I like what you said.
I like what you said about we don't argue the notes. Yeah,
I'm not here to argue with people. I mean, I'm
here to share my experiences and also to learn from
other people's experiences. Because again I don't. I can't take
one hundred percent credit for anything. I can't take any

(01:20:54):
credit because the idea is that I listen to other
people and I say, oh yeah, like that.

Speaker 5 (01:21:00):
I have my.

Speaker 3 (01:21:01):
Experiences that I've held onto all these years, and then
I've strung them together to make a tapestry sort of
that makes sense to me. But then I'll learn something
from someone else and I'll realize, oh yeah, like I
never met I never made the connection between the Ouiji
board and the seeing the aliens until I don't even

(01:21:23):
remember when that brought it together. But the idea is
that whatever I communicated with did know things about both
sides of my family, and my father's great grandfather was
an Amish. You know, the Amish people in the United States,
they separate themselves, they live, they drive around in buggies
with horses, and they don't have electricity. And he was Amish,

(01:21:46):
my father's great grandfather, and he was a shaman and
he practiced Amish witchcraft. And a lot of people don't
realize that the Amish have a form of witchcraft. And
I think all cultures eventually that embraced Christianity also carried
their pagan witchcraft into their Christianity and incorporated it. Like

(01:22:06):
I just think that that was just a natural element
because it's a religion, and it's a melting pot, you know,
and people were bringing with it into the throwing into
the pot whatever worked, you know. And so that's why
I hesitate to say that Jesus is a religion, because
there's no I have no traditions. I just I just

(01:22:30):
speak to Jesus, like you know, when I pray, or
when I'm confused, or I just I needed a job
in nineteen ninety eight and I was walking on Ninth
Avenue and I just said, God, what am I going
to do? I need a job and a man walking
towards me recognized me from the bookstore that I had
worked in a year before, and he said, Kelly, are

(01:22:50):
you working And I said no, and he said, come
work with me, and like that was my job interview
and it lasted. That job lasted for twenty two years.
So the idea is that I was proactive in the
sense that I was praying. I just would call Jesus
God because I didn't know that his name was Jesus.

(01:23:12):
I mean, Jesus literally says I am the Father. I
and the Father are one. If you've seen me, you've
seen the Father. So in the Bible, Jesus is God.
But he said, but my desire is that you will
be like us, like you will be one with us
the way we are one. And so that's through the
Holy Spirit. And so once I read that, it just

(01:23:34):
kind of clicked, like it made a lot of sense.
It's John fourteen through John seventeen where Jesus discusses that,
and it's just made a huge difference in the way
I approach life and people. But the idea is, again,
you know, it's proactive in the sense that I have
I guess, the faith of a child and just like

(01:23:55):
when I was four and the man said, you're ever
afraid or you need anything? Called it Jesus. I was like, okay.
And I have no idea who that man was. I
don't even have an inkling of what church it was.
But the idea is, it's not what the church taught.
I mean, I didn't learn that in church. Just that
man presented that to me and it clicked. It connected.

(01:24:20):
It's made in my life a whole lot more fun.
I mean I still had a lot of I think
everyone has trauma, everyone has growing pains, as you call it,
I guess they could be called that, but and not everyone.
I mean, life isn't roses. I mean Jesus calls it
a broken world, and that he actually refers to the
god of this world as Satan, as as someone who

(01:24:42):
hates us. So the idea is that we're living in
enemy territory. We're not taught that, but that's what the
Bible says, and so it's we should expect that things
are going to be broken because that's what happened, Like
that's just the nature of the flesh. But then whenever
incorporate the spirit into the flash, it becomes a new

(01:25:04):
ballgame like something completely different. I think that's the message
that Jesus was trying to get across the people. Yeah,
I hope I'm not misrepresenting Jesus. But I also call
him Yeshua, like ever since I was baptized for some reason,
like whenever I would pray or something, I would say Yeshua.
And then I realized that Yeshua is Jesus in Hebrew,

(01:25:25):
and it actually means safe place. Like if you go
to Israel and you see the word Yeshua, that's a
safe place where you can go, Like if there's a
shooting or a bombing or something, there's like a shelter there.
I think it's the Hebrew word for shelter basically. But
the idea is that there's also violent things going on

(01:25:46):
in this world. I mean I saw it in New
York City. There was a man who built a bomb
car and he parked it outside of where I worked,
and it was scheduled to go off at six pm,
which is why we would be punching out. We would
quite be in the street at that point, but it
didn't go off, and street vendor who had been in
the military, recognized something strange about this car, and he

(01:26:10):
notified the police and then they brought in a bomb squad.
Ever since nine to eleven, I guess we have bomb squads,
and so what happened was they dismantled it and no
one was injured, and they were able to catch the
man because my company that I worked for had security
cameras in the street and they actually caught him getting

(01:26:30):
out of the car, changing his clothes and walking through
one of our alleys. I mean, I pray for him
because I think that that was his reality was, you know,
that for some reason he wanted to build this bomb
car and set it off in Times Square, And so
for whatever reason was, that's his reality. And now I
pray for him that he gets a new reality because

(01:26:51):
I don't think that's a healthy reality. Whenever you want
to hurt people, there are situations where people do change
their mind, you know, And maybe Jesus has something to
do with that, like maybe, like Geronimo said, he referred
to Jesus as Chief Jesus, which I thought was very
cool because he put Jesus into the vernacular that he

(01:27:13):
was raised in that he understood and he understood that
Jesus's message was forgiveness, not revenge, like he broke it down,
and I just I have a lot of respect for that.
So I hope there is a heaven, and I hope
that I get to meet like millions of people like
all throughout history and just hear their stories, or that

(01:27:35):
there's a library where I get to read everybody. I
could spend eternity reading people's biographies, like I love hearing
other people's stories, their experiences, and.

Speaker 5 (01:27:47):
It's wonderful, and I think that's how we learn. I
think that's how we develop and grow. The reason why
this show works is is because it's just simply people
sharing their experiences. Not all of us agree, but the
one thing that's important is, you know, we all listen.
We all listen to each other, you know, because everyone
has these little pieces of the puzzle and they don't
always fit sometimes and we sit there and we can

(01:28:09):
just keep on turning that puzzle piece and you know
it will eventually fit, but we need the other pieces.
We're all on this path, and the people are also
on different paths sometimes. I like what you said about reality,
that guy's reality. That's a good way of saying it.
People are in different realities, not always good places. Hopefully
sometime in the future the direction they should be going.

Speaker 3 (01:28:31):
Yes, yes, a product productive and like again, you know,
I don't know that everyone is responsible for their perspective,
you know, because like we're born into situations. I mean,
and again this is departure from what people call Christianity.
But the idea is that, I mean, we have free will,
but at the same time, we are not free of

(01:28:52):
our circumstances. It has to be sorted out. I mean,
I believe that Jesus can do things supernaturally. I mean,
I've heard story where people have they call it being
delivered supernaturally from whatever. But the idea is, like you said,
like we listen to each other and we yes, and
like I'm not. I mean, I love as One of
the things I love is just listening to each podcast

(01:29:14):
and just listening to the person explaining how they got
to where they are and what they believe and what
they their experiences taught them and their pieces of the puzzle.
And I love the analogy of turning the piece because
it's true, like I love jigsaw puzzles. There's always that
moment where oh wow, that's where that piece goes, Like

(01:29:35):
you'll have that one strange piece that just doesn't seem
to go with the puzzle at all, and then all
of a sudden, it, oh, that's where it goes, and
it's so exciting and yeah, and that's and that's what
I get out of your out of listening to your show,
and because it's like become an obsession of mine where
I will binge on your podcasts and then I take

(01:29:56):
a break and I'll go I've been watching I like
archaeology documentaries, but then I also like watching about Skinwalker,
like the Skinwalker Ranch. And then there's a bigfoot I
call it Sasquatch Watch, but it's called something else. You know.
You know, they're rabbit holes that are just really fascinating

(01:30:16):
to go down. I like to jokingly tell people I'm
getting my masters from YouTube University because it's like you're learning,
like I mean, you're learning from all these people's experiences,
and we wouldn't have that, We wouldn't have that ability
if we didn't have the internet, you know, to connect everyone. Yeah,

(01:30:37):
I mean the sixties and the seventies were fun too,
but this is like a completely different ball game. It's
really fun.

Speaker 5 (01:30:44):
A strange new world isn't it.

Speaker 3 (01:30:46):
Yeah, absolutely, this is funny. But when I was in
grad school, I acquired two kats, a mother and a son,
and every night when I went to bed, the son
would wrap himself around my head on the pillow, and
the mother would sleep on top of my feet. So
every night I knew where they were. And I was
explaining that to somebody once and they said, oh, that's

(01:31:07):
how witches sleep, Like when a witch has cats, they
protect her head and they protect her feet. And I thought, oh,
that's interesting because I had gotten involved with this like
witch coven kind of thing. Right, these cats don't sleep, so,
like i've I can't allow them in the room when
it's time to go to bed because they will fight.
They will keep me awake all night long. They'll scream,

(01:31:28):
they'll crawl under the covers, they'll get out of the covers,
and it just seems like I don't know how to
get them to sleep. But maybe because my other cats
were outdoor, like they would go outside and like they
basically while I was at work, they ran around and
when I got home, they could they knew the sound
of my keys going in the lock, and as soon
as I put the key in the lock. They just

(01:31:49):
came out of nowhere and they were home, and so
they were tired by the time it was, you know, bedtime,
that they would sleep through the night with me. That
even when we had like a we were reading the
Communion book by Whitley's Streeber and my boyfriend was staying over.
He actually stopped staying at my apartment, and because of

(01:32:09):
the paranormal things that were going on there, it was
freaking everyone out, but it was so anyway. So I'm
I crawl into bed and I feel something crawl over me,
and I'm thinking it's one of the cats. But then
I'm thinking, no, I know where they are. They're on
my head and on my feet. He said, out, did
you just bite me? I said, why would I bite you?

(01:32:29):
He said, something just bit me or pinched me or
something turned on the light and there was nothing there.
But apparently in the Whitley Strieber's account, they would take
blood samples from his fingertips, and so I guess my
boyfriend at the time thought that maybe they had taken
a bood sample or something, and then he kind of

(01:32:50):
we broke up after that, but he stopped staying at
my place basically because the paranormal things were just freaking
him out. But I have so many stores from that
time period. But the idea is that I laugh now.
But it's the same year that Beetlejuice came out, and
so we were all going through all this craziness on campus.

(01:33:11):
And then one of my classmates went to see Beetlejuice,
and he came into school the next day and he said,
you guys, you have to see this movie. He said,
I think it. I think it explains what's going on,
like why we're having all these crazy experiences. And then
the whole class we went to see Beetle Juice, like
three nights in a row, and we were like, oh
my god, this is we have a Beetle Juice because

(01:33:31):
it was crazy. Like the the building where our studios
were it was an old army barracks from like the
nineteen twenties, so it was made of wood, you know,
and so we would be in our studios working and
we would hear one of the fire doors on either
side of the building, either end of the building open
and then slam closed, and then we would hear stomp,

(01:33:52):
stump stomp, like somebody came in right, but there was
no one there, and it would they would the footsteps
would up at different places, so it wasn't like a memory,
you know people say that sometimes buildings have memory. This
was an actual entity that was stomping through the building
and sometimes it would pull the fire alarm and then

(01:34:13):
the fire company would show up, like the fire trucks
and he would say where's the fire and would say
there's no fire, but we have a ghost and it
would be like, you know, you can be arrested for that,
and we're like no, no, really, seriously, there's we didn't
pull the alarm. So they eventually had to disconnect the
fire alarm because this ghost, whatever kept the sentity, kept
pulling the fire alarm. So if we had a fire,

(01:34:35):
we were told you have to call the fire company
in person because you can't. We can't keep running here
every time this thing pulls the fire alarm. And then
whatever it was was destroying people's artwork, like leaving fist
marks in wet clay, big giant fist marks in wet clay,
and then smashing pottery and just crazy things like that.

(01:34:58):
And I actually dropped out of grad school kind of
as a result because I really thought I was losing
my mind, like I just I remembered thinking I don't understand,
and like, within four months, my whole life was completely
upheaval because as a long story, but I lost my job,
I lost my boyfriend, I dropped out of school. And

(01:35:20):
that's when a pastor from my parents' church sent me
a letter and he said he was a new pastor.
He was young, and he understood spiritual warfare. And the
letter said, dear Kelly, I'm a pastor at your parents' church.
I'm just sending letters to all the students, and you're
a student, and I just wanted to let you know
if you have any questions and give me a call.

(01:35:41):
I'm thinking, do I have questions? I have so many
questions right now? And so I called him at four
o'clock in the afternoon, which was prime time when you
pay three dollars a minute or whatever. And I thought,
I'll just be on the phone for ten minutes tops,
because as soon as I tell him what's going on
in my life, he's going to hang up on me.
You'll think I'm crazy. And we were on the phone

(01:36:02):
for four hours, and this man explained spiritual warfare to
me which I had never heard of, and I thought, like,
this is crazy. And then at the end of the
call four hours later, he said, what is your biggest
fear right now? And I said, my biggest fear right
now is how am I going to pay for this
phone call? Because we've been on the phone for four

(01:36:23):
hours and it's like three dollars a minute or something.
And he said, don't worry about the phone call. And
I said, are you going to pay it? And he
said no, He said, just don't worry about it. And
I said, okay, you know, and I hung up the phone,
and the phone call never showed up on my phone
bill ever, and like even when I moved a month
later and I disconnected the line, no one ever called

(01:36:46):
me and said, you owe us, you know, three million
dollars for that phone call, and no one or no
one ever called to confirm that it was a you know,
was that a mistake or I mean, no one ever
addressed the phone call whatsoever. So so that was kind
of my introduction to I guess miracles in the sense
that God can do crazy stuff. I don't know. But

(01:37:07):
then I started having my own experiences, like we had
blood manifestations, I mean, there's so many things that happened
after that. But the idea is that's when I started
connecting those dots, like connecting the dots to the Bible,
but not necessarily religion, because the religion is the part
that rejected me. But it was the Bible that had

(01:37:29):
I started to see answers in there. And that was
when I moved to New York City and I started
reading the Bible from a paranormal perspective and also a
Jewish perspective, and I just started learning things that I
didn't know before, and it was really cool. I think
that's helped me a lot. And also they don't reject
my experiences, which was really helpful too, because it's damaging

(01:37:52):
to a person when you cancel them. Have you ever
heard of the book A Beautiful Mind. I think it
was made to a film. So the idea is a
disman was schizophrenic, but he was also brilliant, so he
was like a brilliant professor or scientist. He just died recently,
but he lived in New Jersey. But he was schizophrenic
and he heard voices. My understanding is that after the

(01:38:15):
film was made, he was introduced to the concept that
the voices were actually real, that he wasn't hallucinating them,
and that they were actually demons. And I think he
was Jewish, so I think this was introduced to him,
and he, in his later years understood, oh, I'm not crazy,
I'm just experiencing something paranormal, and so he stopped taking

(01:38:39):
medication and he apparently functioned. He functioned well without the medication.
I think that medication helps some people, especially if they're violent,
any kind of violence involved. But I think that sometimes
the medications create new problems. I don't know. I think
that there's a book I read by a psychiatrist who

(01:39:02):
works in New York City and he uses exorcism in
his practice, and his name is James Gallagher. And then
there's another man called m. Scott Peck who wrote a
book that was famous called The Road Less Traveled. I
had no idea that M. Scott Peck also was a
doctor who used exorcism in his practice. So these are

(01:39:24):
things that are not mainstream, like it's not something that's
talked about regularly. But I also I met a man
who was a chaplain in the military, and he wrote
a book called wen Demon's Surface, and it's about his
thirty years as a military chaplain helping people who have

(01:39:45):
spiritual issues. And that was really fascinating to me because
he again traces isorism like back into the ancient culture,
like Jesus did exorcism, but apparently like ancient cultures it
as well, just like Irving Finkel. You know, the book
that his research dates predates the Bible by thousands of years,

(01:40:08):
so you know, it's it's old, and it's I think
it's information that's been forgotten during the age of Enlightenment.
We I think we left a lot of things. I
don't know we turned off the lights, but I don't know.
I agree with you.

Speaker 5 (01:40:24):
There wonderful stuff, Kelly. So many interesting experiences.

Speaker 3 (01:40:28):
Oh, thank you, And well it was fun. I mean
I've never I've never. I mean I've shared some of
my experiences with people right just fishing to hear their stories,
but I've never I don't think I've ever shared so
many in one sitting. That's kind of fun.

Speaker 5 (01:40:43):
Thank you, Kelly. I really appreciate you coming on sharing
all that for our listeners.

Speaker 3 (01:40:48):
Oh, thank you. It was fun. Thank you so much.
You're fantastic. I think you provide the freedom. Thank you.

Speaker 5 (01:40:57):
It was wonderful to meet you, Kelly. Okay, please keep
in contact and we will speak soon.

Speaker 3 (01:41:03):
Very good, Thank you.

Speaker 6 (01:41:04):
Take care bye for now, Kelly. Well, that is all
for this episode. Keep updated and connected with the show
on x, Facebook and Instagram. And if you have an
encounter that you'd like to share on the podcast, you
can email me at UFO Chronicles at gmail dot com,
or you can reach out to me via the contact
page on my website UFO Chronicles podcast dot com. A

(01:41:28):
big thank you to Kelly for sharing tonight, and thank
you all for listening. I will be back next week.
Till then, stay safe and keep watching the Skies.

Speaker 5 (01:41:38):
Goodbye

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