June 12, 2025 • 70 mins
Vicky’s journey has led her to become a devout Christian, and it is that faith which has allowed her to stand up to fight and win against the darkness of cult abuse.Notes with links including Brian and Vicky's 2015 interview here: https://www.ukcolumn.org/video/a-personal-journey-from-abuse-to-christian-spiritual-healing
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Episode Transcript
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(00:16):
Good morning and welcome to the UK column viewers and listeners.
I have a special interview todaywith a lady called Vicky Ash.
And Vicky, I've known for a lot of years, so many that I'm going
to have to ask her in just a fewmoments how long it is.
But an important thing I need tosay straight off is that we're
(00:36):
going to be talking about some pretty tough subjects.
This is about Vicky's life in anan abusive family and how she's
moved through that very dark period to something really very
special. But we do understand that if
people are watching this type ofinterview and they've
(00:58):
experienced problems themselves,this can cause difficulty.
So we have to say upfront that we are going to be talking about
some very different difficult issues, but the most important
thing is that this is a story ofhow Vicky has got through some
very, very dark, troubled times and has found the light.
(01:20):
And on that note, Vicky, can I welcome you to UK column?
Good morning, Brian. Thank you for having me.
Absolute pleasure. Now come on, let's see if we can
pin down for the audience how long ago it was that we did that
original interview. There was 1000.
And 15. 2015 So there we are 10 years ago and the important
(01:45):
thing is that we did the interview.
We're still in contact. Probably we should have been
able to have a bit more contact over the years, but the key bit
is that you're with us today. So thank you very much for that.
It's great. You've recently produced a book,
it's called Fruit Cake or Bearing Fruit, which people
(02:06):
might think that's a very strange title, but I know
there's a very good explanation for that.
And you were kind enough to giveme a copy to read, because it's
a read. It's it's a book, a novel about
your life and what you've been through.
It's a very intimate book. I think you've written it in a
very, very clever way because you've had to juggle some, some
(02:31):
very difficult situations with family and also some legal
aspects. I read your book.
I think it is extremely good andit it made a big impact on me.
And I'm sure as we discuss it, it's going to make a big impact
on the public. Why don't we start at the in
(02:52):
whichever direction you want to go to to answer this?
But you've written a book about your life.
What prompted you to do that? I think it's healing, obviously,
to face the truth in your own life, but also I have a duty of
care to children. And the more that I've gone on
(03:14):
my journey of faith, I don't believe God just rescued you to
have a good life. I think He rescued you to rescue
others. So my heart has always and and
will always be to help those other survivors perhaps haven't
been as fortunate as me, but also to protect children and to
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save children because satanic ritual abuse still goes on
today. Vicky, thank you very much.
But that's a very clear and a very concise explanation.
And I'd like to just say, say toyou that over recent months,
I've been doing quite a few interviews with mothers who've
(03:55):
been through some pretty disturbing situations.
So this is this is about their personal life.
Some of them have been through care.
The the main thread through all of them has been that these are
women that have had their children taken away from them.
And this is something that I've come to learn in the discussions
(04:17):
with those women that initially they were trapped in a world of
almost. Well, many of them did feel
guilty that they'd been in a situation where the state had
taken their children. And when they got through that
darkest period, they started to reflect on how they were going
(04:39):
to deal with their situation andhow they were going to try and
fight back against the system that had taken their their
children. Invariably they want to speak
out to get the truth out about their own story, but they're
also adamant that what they've experienced, they don't want
that to happen to other people. So what you've just said to me
(05:00):
absolutely makes an impact on me.
Even more so because a few days ago I was lucky enough to be
invited to meet up with a group of mothers who've all had
children taken away. And this is the first time I've
been with a reasonable size group.
There was a, there was about 25 mums in the room and a lot of
(05:25):
emotion. But this is one of the key
things. They wanted to get the truth out
about what had happened to them.And Vicky, I know this takes a
lot of courage. So I'm going to thank you again
because it's not easy to discussthese things.
I don't know how you'd like to respond just to that.
Well, I think we're seeing even in today's times that there's
(05:47):
more protection for the perpetrator and the victims are
being silenced. And that's very concerning.
We're seeing that all over that.You know, I mentioned in my book
that sadly, I'm, I've not been able to write it as I would
because many whistleblowers are silenced and serving prison
sentences. So we're seeing that and, and my
(06:11):
book goes through my journey of going to the police for help.
As I mentioned in 2015, I I wentto the police because I had a
duty of care to children. And it shows the whole systemic
abuse set up that perpetrators are protected and we can't deny
(06:32):
that because they are. I I totally agree with that, and
there are many other people who would agree with it.
But perhaps for the the audience, I could reinforce what
Vicky's just said by saying thatat the little event I've just
mentioned in the short talk thatI gave to those ladies, I showed
(06:53):
a clip of the former Tory whip Tim Fortescue in 1995, I think
it was. He was speaking to the BBC.
So there's there's a little clipthat people can find on YouTube
where this Tory whip, Tim Fortescue is talking to ABBC
(07:13):
reporter and he's describing thewhip's job and he looks at the
camera and says, well, MPs couldcome to us, sorry.
MPs would come to us with problems.
It could be anything. It might be money, it might be
little boys and we would fix it for them.
(07:34):
And then there's a pause and he looks at the camera and says, if
you think that that's a little bit, well, that's a little bit
strange. We, we fixed it for them
because, well, then they would do as we asked.
Anyone with any sense who was introuble would come to the wits
and and tell them the truth and say, no, this, I'm in a jam.
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Can you help? It might be debt.
It might be scandal involving small boys or any kind of
scandal which a member seemed likely to be mixed up in.
They'd come and ask if we could help, and if we could, we did.
(08:18):
And we would do everything we can because we would store up
brownie points. If, I mean that sounds a pretty,
pretty nasty reason, but it's one of the reasons is if we can
get a chap out of trouble then you'll he'll do as we ask
forever more. So to ABBC Camera, we have an MP
(08:40):
in a very powerful position as awhip in the Tory party saying
that when MPs came to them having got into trouble because
they were abusing children, the whips covered it up so
effectively they could blackmailthose MPs into following the
political policy. And I showed the clip to the
(09:03):
audience of mothers because I couldn't think of anything more
blatant to prove to them that the system they were up against
was ultimately a system that protected people who were
abusing children. Definitely.
And even going back to why my book's called fruitcake
sarcastically. I've written this sarcastically.
(09:25):
Being a fruitcake in the world'seyes often implies someone is
mentally ill. And that's the tack that they
use all the time to silence people coming forward is that
you are mentally ill. You've got false memory
syndrome. Therapists have planted those
memories. We've recently had a lady called
(09:48):
Lisa Meister on Only God RescuedMe.
She's spoken out on a Christian,a Christian organization, saying
that Satanic ritual abuse doesn't exist and that false
memory syndrome's real. And I'm glad to say that we have
speakers that have now come out,have written a book.
(10:10):
Doctor Jim Friesen has written abook.
He's a pioneer in the treatment of dissociative identity
disorder, an experienced and compassionate psychologist, and
he's written a book called The Truth about False Memory
Syndrome, and we're seeing that even on Netflix programmes that
are coming out. This is a strategy to silence
(10:32):
people that are telling the truth.
Yes. And ultimately it makes sense
because of course abusers and people who are involved in the
abuse rings and are indeed running the abuse rings will do
anything and everything in orderto hide what they're actually
doing. And so nobody in this country in
(10:55):
my, my mind should be surprised with the idea that that the
cover up is very big and it goesthrough all layers of society.
So in various cases over the years, it's clear that there was
a cover up by social services, by the police, even through the
courts and certainly through thepolitical system.
(11:19):
Where of course, we've seen evencases in the past involving the
Tory party where it's become clear that even MI 5 was in the
wings knowing what, what, what was actually taking place.
MPs abusing children, but absolutely no action was taken
(11:40):
against them. So this cover up is real.
And and if the victim, the person who suffered the abuse,
can be branded as mentally ill or suffering from some
psychological diagnosis, psychiatric diagnosis, this is
used to undermine their testimony and their status as a
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credible witness. This is also part of mind
control. Children that are so
horrifically abused are often hypnosis is used and mind
control so that they never ever tell.
And it's it's sort of implanted that if they ever tell they will
be punished. If they ever tell, they will go
to prison themselves if they ever speak out.
(12:26):
So it's like an inbuilt trigger to silence you.
And we know as a Christian that that can be a demonic
stronghold. But once the truth comes, once
you know that God will defend you when you speak out.
And you know, obviously I believe that that's the
Christian route of speaking out.I've found that God has
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protected me over these 36 yearsand he's given me more of a
voice than ever. And I just wanted to go back to
the issue of ridiculing those who speak out.
We find that trolls hide behind fake names.
They don't name who they are. Whereas I don't need to hide my
(13:08):
face. I don't need to.
I'm not ashamed. There's no guilt or
condemnation. Now that I'm a Christian and I I
truly believe that God is the truth and he defends the truth
and he is a God of justice. Very, very important, Vicky.
And we'll certainly delve into that a little little bit more.
(13:31):
Just bringing you back to 2015 to is setting the scene a little
bit for the audience, isn't it? Back in 2015, you'd got to the
stage where you wanted to speak out about what happened.
What was it back then that had moved you to the point you
thought, right, I actually want to be speaking out rather than
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just trying to fight the battle myself by going to say I know
that you went to the police, youwent to politicians, you you
would you were fighting that battle yourself.
What got you to the point where you thought you were prepared to
actually stand up in front, in front of the wider public and
speak about what had happened toyou?
(14:20):
I do believe that it's like a jigsaw.
It's come to me. So back in those days, it was
my, it was AI mention all this in my book, the head of Child
Watch, the founder of Child Watch.
Obviously I went to her for healing, you know, for help in
overcoming the abuse in my own life.
But then that led me to contacting my MP and it's been a
(14:44):
journey since then. But the more that it's been has
been exposed and you know, I've jotted a few things down because
two, since our interview in 2015, for those who want to go
back and look at it, so much hasbeen exposed that's mentioned in
that interview. And so it's in a case of doors
opening for me. I've always said to the Lord,
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you know, if you want me to speak, I will because that's my
duty of care. But I haven't pushed myself
forward. People have contacted me to
speak because they can see that they can see what's happening.
Survivors. I didn't know an SRA survivor
when I grew up and remembered cloaks and going out in the
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night. I didn't know what that was as a
child and black cloaks, I didn'tknow what the word was for it,
but since and I didn't know any other survivor.
But now we have worldwide survivors coming forward.
Maggie Oliver, who has been exposing the grooming gangs, who
talks about the corruption in the police force.
(15:50):
She has been on platforms with other SRA survivors.
So satanic ritual abuse is already here.
They can't cover it up anymore. It's already here.
This, this is absolutely true, absolutely true.
Vicky, you've been through a lotand the whole purpose of your
(16:13):
book was to be be giving the reader and the wider audience
that comes comes out of having written a book and understanding
of what's happened to you. Now you you've touched there on
memories of being surrounded by people in black cloaks.
(16:33):
At the time we spoke in 2015, you were talking about some of
the things that had happened to you, memories that were coming
to the surface. But at that stage, even in the
interview with me, you were not revealing things in the detail
that you have in your book. And so we we can clearly see
(16:56):
that over 10 years, you've grownmuch stronger in the way that
you're approaching this subject and with the truth sets you
free. Pardon.
The truth sets you free. The truth sets you free.
What can I say to that? Well, it's absolutely true that
that that is correct. The point I'm getting to is that
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in in your book, you give a veryclever story of your life and
how how things came to the surface.
You talk about memories, you talk about strange things that
were happening to you. You talk about abuse in its
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rawest form. And then you take us through the
journey of how you started to put pieces together.
You challenged some of the family members who'd carried out
that abuse on you, and ultimately you got to a point
where by embracing spirituality,in particular Christianity, that
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gave you the strength to actually renew yourself and to
heal from a lot of the things that you've been through.
There are still many people who do not understand what abuse
really is. And this is such a difficult
thing to to to deal with becauseif we are to tell the truth
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about what's going on with children, we have to talk about
what it is that's going on. We can't deal with such a
critical system and pussyfoot around how things are described.
And yet I know that there are many really excellent people out
there worldwide. I'm not just talking talking
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about the wonderful people we'vegot supporting the UK column and
being our viewers, but they findit so hard to even listen when
people are starting to describe what goes on.
But as an adult, if we are to get to grips with this subject,
we have to understand what it's really about and, and how these
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crimes are perpetrated because if we don't understand how this
works, we can't deal with it. Where I am getting to Vicky, is
that in the early stage of your book, you talk about some of the
things that happened to you as achild.
And will you tell us like I can give you some prompts, but well,
(19:29):
let let me do this. I, I know that fairly soon in
the book that you are talking about things you experienced as
a child, which are everything from being taken out of your own
bed and carried into your father's bed where you were
abused, to really quite sadisticincidents where you were hurt
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with a poker at the fireside andthere are other events.
Are you able to talk the audience into this, into this
very difficult area when we're not going to?
We're not going to flaw people, but I think it is appropriate
that you actually give some detail to what child abuse is
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actually about. Before I I again, please don't
think that you're upsetting me by talking about it, because I
am. I am healed.
It's rather like looking at a physical scar on perhaps your
arm. I've got an A scar on my arm
where I fell asleep in front of the fire and I and I was burnt.
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And I look at that scar and it'shealed.
I can remember what happened, but when I touch it, the body
has healed. And the same has been for me.
We're talking about spiritual healing.
For me, that's Christianity because in in the word of God,
it says Jesus came to destroy the works of the devil.
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And my belief is that God is good and the devil's bad and
people who do evil are being controlled by by evil forces.
But going back to so asking me questions, I'm I'm healed now so
I can talk about the abuse without any pain.
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I have the memories of what happened, but it doesn't trigger
me. There's no pain because the Holy
Spirit has done that healing work in my life, which I'm so
grateful for. But going back to the memories,
yes, it's called grooming. If you are being looked after by
an adult and you do what they ask you to do, you are innocent.
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You have no control. Therefore, the things that
happened to me, I, I, I did under that influence.
And yes, there was sodomy, whichis buggery, you know, that is
the back end where you are abused.
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Therefore, I mention all this inmy book.
But I don't like to glorify evil.
I don't like to focus and give the devil any more power than
he's already got. I like to look at the solution
and the way out. But yes I was sodomized and I
suffered Constipation right through my childhood because of
that. And also oral sex where he would
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put his penis in my mouth and that is common in I I hate to
say the word normal child sexualabuse CSA because there's
nothing normal about abuse at all.
Abuse is evil on any level, but these are the things that go on.
We we've had so many cases coming forward of abuse.
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We've had Harvey Weinstein, we've had the Epstein case,
we've had all Jimmy Savile. We are in those days.
We've had the Balenciaga scandal.
What else that we've had? We just, we see it every day.
We're being anaesthetized to evil.
Even when you listen to the newsnow where, where there's been a
(23:18):
murder or a rape and then they move on quickly to the weather
and you think for good, can I just take a breath?
Somebody has just been raped. A 12 year old has been raped.
And we're talking now in mainstream media as if this is
like going shopping. We are being anaesthetized to
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evil and we have to you know, the Bible says that when the
enemy comes in like a flood, Godraises the standard.
And the point of these interviews, the point of
speaking out, is that we have tostop evil.
We are called to destroy the works of the devil.
We are called to expose the evildeeds of darkness, and that's
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what I know I'm called to do as a Christian.
That is my moral duty as a Christian is to expose the evil
deeds of darkness, not to shame people, but to lead people into
truth. Even perpetrators are deceived.
They're under, they're under that sort of mind control that's
perhaps happened to them as a child, often within satanic
ritual abuse. It's generational, so you know,
(24:27):
but you have to break the cycle.It has to stop somewhere, and it
stopped for me when I became Christian.
Just what just one wonderful Vicky and I totally agree with
you. We are at the point where I
think there are very powerful forces that want to normalise
this sort of behaviour as if it's totally acceptable.
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And, and this is one of the key reasons I think why we are
seeing some truly appalling grooming of very young children
happening through the school system, the education system
itself, where children are beingexposed to ever more explicit
sexual material. And I think it's appropriate
(25:13):
just to give a mention to the wonderful ladies in South Wales,
Public Child Protection Wales, Kim Isherwood and her team
who've been doing such a great job warning parents what what is
being done to the children in this grooming that's going on in
schools, in primary schools, under the under so-called
(25:37):
religious and sex education. It's it's quite, it's outrageous
and it needs to be stopped. Yeah, I totally agree with that.
It is legalizing satanic practices.
We've seen even during the lockdown and and during COVID
where full term abortion was, was trying to be legalized.
(25:58):
We're seeing the perversion of children.
We now know it's a huge industryof child sex trafficking that's
that's out in the open now. We've seen adults in the care
system speaking out. ICSA, which is the independence
inquiry into child sexual abuse.You've had so many survivors
come forward to that platform, but then when you look at that
(26:20):
platform, the leaders were removed.
Whenever we hear of breakthroughin any area, it's stopped higher
up. Absolutely correct.
I've been highly critical of the, it's the so-called
independent child abuse inquiry because we know for a fact that
(26:42):
key witnesses, including witnesses, that witnesses whose
original testimony helped createthe child abuse inquiry in the
1st place, their, their personaltestimony was so powerful, the
police were engaged. In fact, some people did go to,
to prison. But strangely, the, the ICSAR
(27:04):
inquiry then failed to call those, those people as, as
witnesses at the inquiry. And then the next thing is we
say what has actually changed asa result of the inquiry?
There's lots of good words, thousands of words get written.
But when we say, OK, what's actually been done on the
streets in order to stop this? The answer, the answer's nothing
(27:28):
and I'll, I'll just add to that before it come back to you is
that is, is that I was also senta document last week.
It was printed in November 2024 by Truth Commission, which is a
group of very good people at theWestminster End and, and through
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some of the universities who've been collecting statistics on
the damage done to families and children via the the child
protection system, social services system.
Incredible data and and some really powerful statements from
parents saying how they've been belittled, abused, let down, a
(28:12):
complete lack of independence ORproper justice.
Very, very hard hitting. But Even so, that report simply
not covered in mainstream media with with the with the vehemence
that it it deserves. So I'll just add that to the mix
as well. And and people are afraid.
(28:33):
People are afraid to corroborateand come forward, but that's
what's needed. It's fear that silence is us.
I didn't just write the book fruitcake or bearing fruit.
I wrote a book called Persistentpoems.
I've actually got it here. And I, I wrote this at the
beginning of that's also in Amazon and Kindle.
And that was to awaken a deceived generation where we're
(28:55):
actually even within that I usedto wake up in the night with,
with different poems and words of all the child trafficking
that's going on. But we, we are seeing that
police evidence is lost. Cases are shut down because fear
is the weapon they used to silence.
(29:17):
But you see, when you walk in faith, you can't walk in as a
Christian. You don't walk in faith and fear
at the same time. Fear, I believe is from the
enemy. Faith is from God.
But you know, with faith, I believe that just just as we've
seen in in the Epstein trials and Harvey Weinstein, as people
come forward together, those that have perhaps taken their
(29:40):
cases to the police with evidence like I did, I had
evidence to go to the police, Then there must be those cases
that can still come forward and join together and say something
must be done because there isn'ta law in our in the UK against
satanic ritual abuse. Well on on On the contrary,
(30:02):
Vicky in the 50s, I can't remember the exact date, but it
was the 1950s, they they actually were repealing laws
about practicing of witchcraft. Yes, that's where it all
started. Yeah.
So we we can see a trail throughsociety that that shows that
(30:24):
some really strange, we could say strange things have gone on,
but where you would have thoughtpractices that were clearly
damaging to individuals where previously there was some
attempt to control them, from that time onwards we've seen the
opposite it. We've seen a loosening up of
everything in society, which is making ever more deviant
(30:47):
practices ever more acceptable, and that's got to be a
deliberate policy. Yes.
And we're, we're seeing that this is a spiritual battle.
We're seeing that every religionhas a voice, but the Christian
voice and, and, and, and the moral decline of the UK, you
know, morals and, and different cultures within religions.
(31:09):
We're, we're seeing that. So we know it's a spiritual
battle and we sadly, we can't fight that spiritual battle.
Just on a human level. We can't, we need God.
We need, we need our nation to come back to God and he will do
it. He is exposing us.
He's lifting the veil of deception as we speak.
It's it's happening everywhere. And he won't be mocked.
(31:32):
He won't be mocked. There is, there is clearly
something very special that's happening at the moment.
A lot of people are waking up because they, they are sensing
that something's wrong. They certainly sense a sort of
oppressive feel around them and they are, they are looking,
they're looking for answers. And I, I have found that over
(31:56):
the last 10 years there's, there's been a huge change in
what you can talk about. So now there's very little
problem in talking to people from a spiritual angle.
They listen, they ask very good questions, they're very open to
the idea that there's more to itthan men and politics.
(32:16):
And I, I've found this, this absolutely fascinating.
If I go back 20 years, when I first started speaking out on a
number of issues, if I did a public talk and a venue, people
might come forward to the stage at the end of the talk.
And then they quietly say, do you think there's more to it?
And I, I would always prompt them by pretending not to
(32:40):
understand what they were talking about and saying, well,
what do you mean by that? And they say, well, do you, do
you think it's spiritual? And then I, I would always say,
yes, it's absolutely spiritual. But now we're seeing more and
more people in searching for answers are a lot more receptive
to the idea that this is what's really happening.
(33:02):
Yes. And this generation, no, they're
more awake than than my generation and older than myself
because they see it through Hollywood.
They see it through the Illuminati.
We've had P Diddy that's been arrested.
It's everywhere. And you know, the church must
rise up because Jesus is the answer.
You know, everywhere I seem to go that God seems to have a
(33:25):
theme that hope has a name and his name is Jesus.
And that's the the issue now. We, we're already seeing
spirituality through the music industry.
And I was trying to speak that out years ago.
We've had Robbie Williams speak out.
It's we've, we've had, you know,so many celebrities talking
(33:47):
about the dark, dark witchcraft,black magic that's happening in
the elites. You know, the elites are running
the show. And that's where we have to push
back the darkness. And going back to officers that
were in my case, they've told mesince that they have training
(34:08):
that, that, that they didn't know what I was talking about
them. But now they do.
So when people say that it doesn't exist and yet officers,
officers have told me that they've had training about
ritual abuse, They might not call it satanic, but you've also
had the Glasgow satanic ring exposed.
(34:28):
It's it this has been in main onmainstream media as well.
The Glasgow Satanic ring, the word satanic, it's evil and we
have to name it for what it is. We can't keep being ostriches.
We can't keep brushing things under the carpet because evil
only prospers when good men do nothing.
And as, as I say as a Christian,the devil only prospers when
(34:50):
God's men do nothing. Yes, Vicky, can I encourage you
just to take us through a littlebit more of the book.
Thank you very much for being sofrank about basics of some of
the things that have happened toyou because that puts a
foundation we can now move on. But there's another aspect which
(35:12):
I think you should be able to comment on and that's the
business about how how children are controlled in inside a
family situation in order to keep them silent and can keep
them compliant. A lot of people can't understand
how this sort of stuff takes place.
(35:35):
Are you able to to just comment just a little bit?
It doesn't. It doesn't need to be too much
too heavy, but on the sorts of things that you were told in
order to allay fears or concernsyou had or to keep you, keep you
quiet. My belief of why people don't
(35:57):
speak out is that you love your family there.
There is still a bond that you love your family and it costs to
tell the truth. So everything's fear based.
Everything is that something will happen to you if you tell
somehow you were complicit as a child, that's being abused as
(36:19):
well. Your body responds to that
abuse, and that's quite a sensitive subject to speak about
that I do, I do speak about in the book, but your body
responds, you have sensations incertain areas of abuse.
Therefore you think that you're somehow to blame.
And the groomer, the abuser willalways put the blame on you.
(36:44):
And that keeps you locked in because you're going to be in
trouble, right? Why would you?
You've nowhere to go if you're being abused within your home,
where are you to go if you tell?And it's, it's not only your own
protection. For me as I became an adult, it
was the it's just such a terrible subject that it affects
(37:07):
everybody around you. It's affected my husband, it
affects my own children. To think of what their mum went
through, it affects the love that you have for extended
family. How what's it going to cost
them, their reputations, their jobs.
And I've had other people withinmy family contact me since that
(37:33):
wanted to come forward at the time but had too much shame.
They said they felt ashamed. Now that's a terrible thing
because the shame is not on the person that's being abused.
I was a child and that's why I can hold my head up and say I
was a child. There's a very big difference.
(37:54):
I have no control over what happened to me and and that's
why paedophilia is so evil. When we hear about the grooming
gangs, it is so evil applying with drugs, using drugs to, to
anaesthetize you and to detention, tempting, you know,
(38:16):
when you see the grooming gangs tempting youngsters with, with
items and then luring them in. But there's an agenda behind it
and, and that's all part of the grooming.
People need to to understand that.
And grooming spiritually is a form of mind control.
We only need to see what happened through COVID.
(38:37):
If you put enough fear on the television about COVID, you
won't be going anywhere. You know, there was the power to
lock the whole world down because of fear.
But I like to look at fear as false evidence appearing real.
I believe that we have faith over fear and, and, and that's,
(38:57):
and that's why I speak out. I believe that true freedom is
found in not living under fear anymore.
Vicky brilliant. We that takes us to a nice point
because really, if my memory is correct in your book, once
(39:20):
you've been able to challenge some of your own family members
in respect to the abuse you've suffered and also in respect why
some didn't speak up, you were you were on a journey to
understand what had happened to you.
You went through some quite troubled times, but then you
(39:41):
started to be looking for the way out and one of the first
places that you got involved with was the church.
But I think you said that your initial experience inside the
church was that it was a very cold and hard and you were
trying to connect with God, but that didn't go as well as as
(40:03):
you'd hoped. You also got in touch.
With well actually you, you worked alongside a group which
said they were a Christian groupand you did a little bit of
therapy with them. You correct, do correct me if
I've got this, got this wrong. You did some therapy and in that
(40:24):
therapy, some of these memories came to the surface, but you
quickly realised that the group that had set out or said they
were there to help you weren't, how do we describe this?
They, they weren't genuine Christians and their, their
(40:46):
spiritual path wasn't in the right direction.
So just take us through that little bit of how did you go
looking or find that you were looking to the church in order
to help climb out of this very deep dark hole that you were in?
Well. It was a relative but had become
(41:08):
a Christian first that said thatI would only get better if I
went to church. And I remember mocking and
saying what on earth do I want to go to church for?
Because we do blame God for the bad things that happen.
We do not realize that evil comes from a source and that's
Satan and that's, that's all biblical.
So we do blame God for the negative things that happened in
(41:29):
our lives. But yes, I went to church and I
had a battle. I, I felt the presence of God.
I believe that God's knocking oneverybody's door before they
even walk into a church. But I was seeking any way to
have healing, to seeing rather like a festering wound and
(41:50):
thinking I just need this medication, clear it up, get the
plaster on and I can get on withmy life.
But I realized that things wouldtrigger me within church.
The presence of God triggered meand sadly a lot of people, not
through their own fault, didn't understand how I why I couldn't
go up for communion, didn't understand the fear of hearing
(42:12):
the word sing and punishment. And if I even heard those words
I would be triggered. There would be a a physical
reaction and manifestation. And Vicky, you say that because
in memories that you had you, you had specific memories of
people taunting you. So the these, these, this, this
(42:36):
was an abusive setting where youwere being taunted that you were
the 1 who'd committed the sin and therefore you need needed to
be punished. Yes, yes, and that's exactly
what Satanism does. We'll use the word of of Jesus
to so that you never ever tell and it's not the real Jesus.
(42:56):
And that's that's the sad part. But then I went to the spiritual
healing. I I went down every Ave. that
was opened, but I'd already had the memories.
I want to come back to the fact where people say that the
memories came up through therapy.
My husband can verify that I hadmany memories before the
therapy, but the therapy helped me to understand what those
(43:19):
memories were, what those dreamsthat I regularly woke up in the
night with. I would wake up in the night
seriously with a squishy sausagecoming at me.
And I would be crying and perspiring in the night.
And I would say to my husband, you know, this squishy sausage
is coming at me. And it was through that, that I
was reliving as an adult in my dreams, the oral sex that sadly
(43:45):
happened to me as a child. So, you know, you dissociate.
This is what the ID is, or it used to be called multiple
personality disorder. In order for a child to survive,
you split off. It's it's like fragmentation and
and it takes time for those parts to be made whole.
(44:09):
And once that healing comes, thelittle girl is healed.
So you can have you know, you find that you know, the child
would come up up in me many, many times.
I would react like a child, evendealing with my own children.
I used to think what on earth iswrong with me?
But now I understand and and I have found the right church
(44:33):
through my book. It explains that often it was
African ministers that understood witchcraft.
They understood the bondage thatI was in because it's very open
in their country. Witchcraft is very open in their
country. They either go to church or they
go to the doctor or the witch doctor.
Here it's dressed in suits and overalls.
It's under different guises of spirituality, but it's still
(44:55):
demonic. That that's a very powerful
explanation, Vicky. And although it was very many
years ago, but I've also spoken to some African pastors and, and
I, I've found that their instinctive knowledge of really
dark stuff going on in Uki mean one who'd, who'd come across in
(45:19):
order to give some sermons, including in Plymouth at, at one
particular stage. His comment was that as he was
taken and sort of people being kind to him, they were showing
him parts of the country. But he said I, I would be taking
places and I would be seeing things which I, I, I inherently
(45:40):
knew were very dark. So these might be pictures or
they might be so-called works ofart, but he was very clear that
what he was seeing was not of the light.
And I, I found the discussions with one, one of those men in
particular, very, very interesting.
Also, when I went on Radio 4 many years ago, I wondered
(46:04):
whether I should leave my name. I was asked to leave my name.
And then I thought, no, I I needto.
There's no point me speaking outif I'm, if I'm not going to, to
be able to help. And as I when I got home, I had
a phone call from ABBC producer who said because I'd left my
number, he said, I think I'm going out at night.
(46:27):
I think things are happening to me because I'm waking up and all
my feet are scratched and dirty.I think I'm going out in the
woods at night. That was ABBC producer Ryan.
Yeah. Don't you don't just have random
phone calls from a stranger who's ABBC?
Those things just don't happen because it's true this is
happening. The, the evidence is all there,
(46:50):
Vicky, there's no no question ofthis, but we we live in a state.
People like to think that we're in the UK in 2025 and it's an
upstanding Christian country with a system of law and order.
It's a democracy. This is absolutely false.
We live in an increasingly corrupt and wicked country and
(47:12):
at the end of the day, anything you can imagine is going on.
And whereas in years gone, days gone by, whether we go back ten
years or 50 or 200, these thingswere going on.
They were largely under the surface because they were a body
of people in the country who realised who, who could say the
(47:33):
difference between right and wrong.
And we're back on that subject of of now we have the fact that
the evidence is all there, but it's suppressed.
Let me just. But I do believe we have hope.
I do. Believe.
That as, as all this is being exposed, it's being exposed for
a reason, because they need revivals here, more young men
(47:55):
are going back to church. More, more people are realizing
that they can't just do this life on their own.
They need God. And and so often persecution
comes to bring revival. But you know, I, I do believe
that everything that's being exposed that has gone on for
years is happening because it's God who's doing it.
(48:16):
He's exposing it. And that is true and also good
people and very brave people like yourself Vicky, are being
used in order to expose what is happening.
Because bringing things to the light is, is an absolute
fundamental part of dealing withthe problem in the 1st place.
And I say. One thing.
(48:36):
Go on. The devil loses his power when
things are brought to the light.He loses his power because the
occult means hidden. When you expose things, that's
when they lose their power. Yeah, you got involved with one.
Well, you you tried to get involved with a a church.
(48:58):
You then got involved with a so-called Christian group.
You did you did get some good things came out of that.
But let's just say they, they weren't quite the, the people
for you, but later you were to meet a particular pastor who
clearly made a big impact on youand gave you help.
Just can you talk us through howyou really started to move into
(49:23):
this spiritual side where, whereyou, you were really coming to
the grips with, with the real issues of what this whole thing
was about? What, what did that?
How did you meet the pastor and and what did he actually do for
you? Dennis Wrigley was the founder
of Maranatha. I would call him my spiritual
(49:44):
father. He was very much a father
figure, but understood he he wrote an article to the House of
Commons, What on earth are we doing to our children?
And they also had a ministry called Trumpet Call where in all
those years ago we could see laws being changed, children's
(50:04):
innocence being stolen. So he was very much, I would say
had a prophetic voice. He, he's now passed on.
He's, he's, he's, he's passed on.
I believe he's, he's in heaven now.
But Dennis was very instrumentaland I had healing.
I had in the way that you would go to a secular counsellor and
(50:26):
talk through your problems. Prayer is talking to your
problems with God. So I would go for prayer
ministry and that that was many leaders God led me to that
helped me enormously where I would talk through issues, but
God was present. So you're not just talking
(50:49):
through the issues to relive them.
There's spiritual healing from the right source at the time.
So it's freeing instead of it just being traumatic.
So some of them, some of the healing I have that where I went
to what I would call a new age ministry, not not real
Christians. They thought they were.
(51:09):
So bless them too because they're in deception, but they
thought that they were walking in the truth.
I would have the memories, but not the healing with it.
I'd just have more anger and I'dwant to shout and and say go and
get them, go and get them. Where is the Christian voices?
Go and save them. The Christian voice doesn't go
(51:30):
and get them. Otherwise we'd all, we'd all
fall very, very short. It's it's go and save them
because people are deceived. And so my journey was prayer
with counselling, with God's presence, and it's been
miraculous. But I don't think people need to
go through everything that I went through.
There's far more knowledge aboutabuse now.
(51:53):
I spent many years just trying to get people to believe me and
that's still the issue today. That's why many people won't go
to church, because church often won't talk about these things.
They think we don't talk about the dark side.
We don't. Well, if you don't expose the
enemy, that's how he goes hidden.
That's how there's infiltration in your churches.
(52:14):
That's how you have Mace. You know, top end of the Masons
is, is very hidden. You have Masons within the
church. It it, it, it has to be spoken
about. Yes, indeed.
So he, he, he gave you considerable help and, and, and
you obviously learnt a lot through that.
(52:35):
But at one point in the book, you talk about a particular
occasion when you were, you werein church and you asked God for
help and something happened. Do you remember that incident in
in in the book you you're asking?
There's so many, there's so manybrides.
I think you describe it as a feeling of pins and needles in
(52:59):
your arm. Oh yes.
Oh, that was so powerful. Yes, I was in church and I like
to come to God. I believe prayers, talking to
God. I don't think we need to make
things difficult, complicated. I think the gospel is very
simple. But I was in church.
It was an informal worship and Iwas in a very angry state.
(53:19):
And it wasn't a normal service. It was just an evening service
with worship and prayer. And as the worship group were
praying, one of the worship leaders had a picture of a
shield, and he was describing the shield, saying this.
It was shiny and one thing or another.
And I was sat there quietly on my own, but I was mocking and I
(53:41):
was sort of looking at my hands,my head down with my hands
between my legs, and I was looking around saying, oh, who?
Ray Henry's seen a shield. What do we all do now?
Because the service carried on, we carried on singing.
Then it came to the prayer time and the vicar said I was in a
Church of England church at the time.
The vicar said now this is the time for everybody to bring
(54:04):
their own personal prayers. So I was sat with my hands, my
head bowed down, my hands between my legs and I said, you
just tell me one thing God. I said how come evil seemingly
has so much power in the world and pins and needles shot up
both my arms. And I audibly heard the words
(54:25):
not if you wear your shield. And Ephesians 6 in the Word of
God talks about putting on the armour of God and that the
shield of faith extinguishes allthe dots of the devil.
And I've had those encounters. Nobody can ever take your
(54:46):
testimony away. It says in the Word that you
overcome by the blood of the Lamb and the word of your
testimony. I've had those profound
encounters with God, and that's why I believe that I can sit
here today and speak as freely as I do.
And we are very, very grateful that you're doing that.
Vicky, the time, time is right. And we, we didn't even manage
(55:09):
the first slot, did we? When we said we were going to do
the interview, there was something came up and we've had
to wait a couple of weeks. But if it's, if there's one
thing that I've learnt over all the time that I've been doing
things with the UK column, it's things only happen when the time
is right. And if you try and force it and
you get frustrated and, and angry, often the solution is you
(55:31):
just need to wait a bit because when the time's right, all the
pieces fall into place. So I'm going to say I, I've also
experienced, experienced that you are able to use this.
It's, it's a huge spiritual stepping stone for you, isn't
it? It's something that takes you
into a, a completely different frame of mind about yourself
(55:54):
and, and indeed the battle you're in.
So the book is is a very uplifting book because it goes
from all of the sad times and and the dark times around that
abuse and it takes the reader through your life, all the
challenges, and then ultimately to a point where you are a
(56:15):
completely different person as aresult of your spiritual
journey. It's obviously made you much
stronger. Are you still fighting at the
moment to try and do something about what's happening and the
fact that we still have thousands of children that are
suffering this type of abuse? I believe that this is, this is
(56:37):
the part of still fighting, doing interviews like this.
I recently did an interview on Tough Talk with Joe Lampshire.
There are, there are so many. You know, you only need to go.
It's, it's not through mainstream media that this is
going to be dealt with. It is, it is through and it's
not going down rabbit holes or conspiracy theories.
(56:59):
But you know, there is a, a wordI remember when everybody kept
accusing us of conspiracy theories.
And you're a, it says in the Bible, don't call conspiracy
what these people call conspiracy.
So not everything's conspiracy. We really, really do need
wisdom. But this is fighting.
Speaking out about it, I believe, will give other people
(57:21):
courage to come forward. And I believe that eventually
there will be that corroboration, as there has been
with other cases. And I think that there there
will be an overturn of evil. I do believe that there will be
an overturn. But we know in the Bible that
we're in the last days, so we wecan't change what's going to
happen. But I believe it's the church's
(57:43):
finest hour to rise up and shineand have holy boldness.
That's what I believe. We, we, this is, this is a very
good point. We can't change what's going to
happen, but we, we've got a it falls on all of us to help the
people who can't help themselves.
That that I believe is, is, is akey point.
(58:05):
And and of course, you've already mentioned the
vulnerability of children. So there is no adult or should
be no adult in this country or worldwide that is going to stand
idly by while children are badlytreated and abused.
Yeah. And the the other bit I'll just
(58:26):
add is that in, in meeting the mums I I met a few days ago
who'd all had children taken away from them.
The newer ones were still in a pretty bad place.
And there there was a lot of very powerful, tough emotions in
the day. But in the afternoon we got
(58:46):
talking more about the wider battle.
And one of the things that I said to them, I showed them a
video clip of, of some of the interviews that I've done with
the mothers who've been brave enough to speak out about the
trauma of having their children stolen by the state.
So I showed a little 9 minute video clip of some of these
(59:08):
mothers speaking. And yes, it did.
It was very hard for some of themums present to watch it.
But the point that I wanted to make is that those mothers had
got to the point where they werebrave enough to speak out and
tell their story. And of course, what happens when
they do more mothers come forward.
(59:29):
And then the second point that Imade was that although a lot of
the mums, they've all been through the court system and
they've all, all experienced drowning in court documents,
bundles of paper, which is supposedly the evidence.
But I kept saying to these ladies, you are the evidence.
(59:49):
You are the people who've experienced what what has
happened, things have been done to you.
It's your testimony that makes the evidence as to what's going
on. And of course, if there are
thousands, if there were to be thousands of mothers coming
forward talking about child's, how their child's been taken by
(01:00:10):
the state, that is the evidence itself.
And it also applies. In the case of of abuse, the
more people who can be helped and encouraged to speak out, to
speak the truth about what's happened, the more people come
forward and the more we are thengetting these terrible things up
(01:00:31):
to the surface where they can bedealt with.
Yes, and we've seen that with child sexual abuse.
We've seen there is help, now there is people aren't being
silenced. We've seen it in domestic abuse
where women, you know, can now speak out that, you know, people
didn't want to accept that that was going on, that people were
(01:00:52):
being beaten up behind closed doors.
But people, we have to expose evil.
We have to. We want to live in a safe
society. We want our children to be able
to play out safely. It's so much harder to parent
your children these days. And of course, children, indeed
children who've suffered these things, as you have experienced,
(01:01:16):
go on to have problems and then that makes it difficult,
difficult for the next generation of children.
So it's so important to to be able to draw a line under this.
Vicky, coming up to the top of the hour, it's been a
fascinating discussion. I wanted to mention the name
because I think this particular person deserves some
(01:01:38):
recognition. It's it's a man I interviewed on
the UK column many, many years ago.
In fact, I'm allowed to say I think it was that UK column
interview which is the one that took him from being somebody who
was battling behind the scenes to somebody who got recognition
for what he was doing. And that was the former
(01:02:00):
Metropolitan policeman, John Wedger.
And John has given you a lot of support over the years.
Yes, he came to my book launch and he continues to speak out.
You know, this is all, it's all going to happen.
Justice eventually will come. And yes, he continues to speak
(01:02:22):
out and we're still very good friends.
He does an awful lot and and andhe knows what goes on behind the
scenes of the corruption. We're seeing police officers
that are involved with having child pornography.
You know, we're seeing people inplaces of authority doing the
the unimaginable and still the silence.
(01:02:44):
There should be absolute outrage.
There should be outrage. Yes, probably.
Then the other name I should mention this comes into my head.
So I think I'm being told to talk about this man.
Mike Veal was the chief Constable that did all the
investigations around Ted Heath.He did it in a very measured,
(01:03:09):
professional way. And of course, as he delved into
the accusations of abuse around former British Prime Minister
Ted Heath, he he the chief Constable, absolutely vilified
by the press and media, with theBBC in the lead, of course.
And I want to say to the audience that that I understand
(01:03:33):
that he's, you know, he's had togo through a very, very hard
personal battle since he did that police work to try and
protect children from very powerful abusers.
And I know that John Wedger has been trying to give him some
support as well. So there is a price to be paid
(01:03:53):
when people attempt to help. But it's utterly brilliant when
we see these very strong people such as John Wedger and and Mike
Veal, who are two of many who have tried to do something about
it. Yes.
And we also have the reigns listand John Wedge has spoken about
(01:04:13):
that. I was just looking for it.
Just let me think it's important.
While you're looking, I'll just I'll just say to the viewers of.
Importance. I don't know what the Rains list
is. It's a it's a list of names that
was compiled by a lady psychologist who, in trying to
help principally young people who came to her with
(01:04:36):
psychological problems, she discovered in the interviews
that many of them were talking about exactly the sort of abuse
that Vicky Ash has just described.
And she kept notes of the interviews and she built up a
list of names and she built up alittle paragraph summary really,
(01:04:58):
of the person and what they werebeing accused of or what they
were doing. Some of them were abusers, but
some of them were had got responsibility within the abuse
cult. So they were the people who were
the enforcers or they were the snitches.
They were the messengers. And over to you, Vicky.
(01:05:23):
And her name was John Coleman. Yes, you've you've explained
what the Rens list is. And she also always had to put a
name on that list. She always had two independent
witnesses. Yes.
For every name that went on the list.
Yeah, and of course, the point of the list is that it showed a
whole spectrum of society, from people in the very, very highest
(01:05:45):
positions of authority and powerdown to people who were broken
and destitute but were still involved in this type of
activity. Vicky, it's been absolutely
amazing talking to you and I want to really thank you for
being so forthright and describing what this problem is
(01:06:07):
about. Because I absolutely believe
that people have got to understand it for what it is.
And if you are a Christian, I'm going to look you directly in
the eye and say you've got a responsibility to understand
what this is. So all this business, Oh no, I
can't listen to this, it's too upsetting.
You've got a duty to listen to it because you need to
(01:06:29):
understand it because then you can do something about it.
Sorry to be a bit tough on the team, but this is so important
that as things have got tougher in life and we are at this very
important period of of the world, it is very sad to see a
lot of Christians just losing the courage to actually stand up
(01:06:51):
against what is stand up for right in what is a spiritual
battle. Some a final word for you on
that. I believe even other countries
are telling the UK to stand up. Even other leaders elsewhere are
telling us to stand up. I do believe that there will be
(01:07:11):
God will save the UKI do believethat they'll be revival.
And I want to thank you and yourteam Brian, for also being bold
on speaking out on these issues.And that's what we're here to
do. We want people to come into the
truth of of of abuse so that we can protect and save children
and prevent it happening and also the huge industry even of
(01:07:35):
taking children off mothers again, it makes money adoption
and fostering. It's it's all everything's about
money and greed. That is ultimately, but that
again goes back to the Bible that when the devil tempted
Jesus, he said he'd give him thekingdoms of the world, didn't
he? And Jesus said man doesn't live
(01:07:56):
by bread alone. It's a spiritual journey.
So we're we can't be bought off,we can't be paid off, we can't
be silenced. And money isn't our God.
Money isn't our God. But sadly, that's what happens.
You'll lose your job. You will, you will.
It's always hits us in the pursethat'll be taken away from you,
(01:08:16):
your families and and that's to silence.
But the more people come forward, I believe an Army's
rising. An army's rising in these days.
Absolutely. And we, we've gone through the
discussion we've gone through and we've, we, we've got to a
point where we're actually smiling at the moment because we
(01:08:37):
are talking about very positive things.
But of course laughter itself isa very, very powerful weapon
because the people ranged against us doing these terrible
things don't want happy people. So the more buoyant you can, you
can be laughter is a very powerful tool.
And I will also say, of course, prayer is a very powerful tool.
(01:08:59):
And that is why they are trying to make it unlawful.
What better indicator can you ask for them?
They're trying to outlaw praying.
Why? Because they're frightened of
it. Last comment, Vicky.
And that's where all the mental health and depression, the word
depression comes from, all the mental health issues and
(01:09:22):
hopelessness and disappointment.And that's not the news of the
gospel. The gospel is that hope has a
name and the joy of the Lord your strength.
And I say all this in my book ofmy journey through such trauma
and atrocity that I have a a joythat doesn't come from the
world. I have a peace that doesn't come
from the world. I have an assurance and a
security that comes from God alone.
(01:09:44):
And I believe that that's available to everybody that
listens. And, and I hope that they cry
out to him because he's waiting.He's waiting to hear their
prayer and he's waiting to step in and answer and make a
difference to our dying world because that's what the world
is, dying. But you know, the church is
growing. The church is growing.
(01:10:06):
Amen. Amen, Vicky, thank you so much.
It's it's been fascinating to hear you talk through this and
talk about your book. And I really wish you all the
best in getting the message out there.
You know, that the UK column will do everything it can to
help you and anybody else that'sfighting in this field.
(01:10:29):
And yeah, just thank you. It's been excellent.
Thank you for having me.
Good morning and welcome to the UK column viewers and listeners.
I have a special interview todaywith a lady called Vicky Ash.
And Vicky, I've known for a lot of years, so many that I'm going
to have to ask her in just a fewmoments how long it is.
But an important thing I need tosay straight off is that we're
(00:36):
going to be talking about some pretty tough subjects.
This is about Vicky's life in anan abusive family and how she's
moved through that very dark period to something really very
special. But we do understand that if
people are watching this type ofinterview and they've
(00:58):
experienced problems themselves,this can cause difficulty.
So we have to say upfront that we are going to be talking about
some very different difficult issues, but the most important
thing is that this is a story ofhow Vicky has got through some
very, very dark, troubled times and has found the light.
(01:20):
And on that note, Vicky, can I welcome you to UK column?
Good morning, Brian. Thank you for having me.
Absolute pleasure. Now come on, let's see if we can
pin down for the audience how long ago it was that we did that
original interview. There was 1000.
And 15. 2015 So there we are 10 years ago and the important
(01:45):
thing is that we did the interview.
We're still in contact. Probably we should have been
able to have a bit more contact over the years, but the key bit
is that you're with us today. So thank you very much for that.
It's great. You've recently produced a book,
it's called Fruit Cake or Bearing Fruit, which people
(02:06):
might think that's a very strange title, but I know
there's a very good explanation for that.
And you were kind enough to giveme a copy to read, because it's
a read. It's it's a book, a novel about
your life and what you've been through.
It's a very intimate book. I think you've written it in a
very, very clever way because you've had to juggle some, some
(02:31):
very difficult situations with family and also some legal
aspects. I read your book.
I think it is extremely good andit it made a big impact on me.
And I'm sure as we discuss it, it's going to make a big impact
on the public. Why don't we start at the in
(02:52):
whichever direction you want to go to to answer this?
But you've written a book about your life.
What prompted you to do that? I think it's healing, obviously,
to face the truth in your own life, but also I have a duty of
care to children. And the more that I've gone on
(03:14):
my journey of faith, I don't believe God just rescued you to
have a good life. I think He rescued you to rescue
others. So my heart has always and and
will always be to help those other survivors perhaps haven't
been as fortunate as me, but also to protect children and to
(03:34):
save children because satanic ritual abuse still goes on
today. Vicky, thank you very much.
But that's a very clear and a very concise explanation.
And I'd like to just say, say toyou that over recent months,
I've been doing quite a few interviews with mothers who've
(03:55):
been through some pretty disturbing situations.
So this is this is about their personal life.
Some of them have been through care.
The the main thread through all of them has been that these are
women that have had their children taken away from them.
And this is something that I've come to learn in the discussions
(04:17):
with those women that initially they were trapped in a world of
almost. Well, many of them did feel
guilty that they'd been in a situation where the state had
taken their children. And when they got through that
darkest period, they started to reflect on how they were going
(04:39):
to deal with their situation andhow they were going to try and
fight back against the system that had taken their their
children. Invariably they want to speak
out to get the truth out about their own story, but they're
also adamant that what they've experienced, they don't want
that to happen to other people. So what you've just said to me
(05:00):
absolutely makes an impact on me.
Even more so because a few days ago I was lucky enough to be
invited to meet up with a group of mothers who've all had
children taken away. And this is the first time I've
been with a reasonable size group.
There was a, there was about 25 mums in the room and a lot of
(05:25):
emotion. But this is one of the key
things. They wanted to get the truth out
about what had happened to them.And Vicky, I know this takes a
lot of courage. So I'm going to thank you again
because it's not easy to discussthese things.
I don't know how you'd like to respond just to that.
Well, I think we're seeing even in today's times that there's
(05:47):
more protection for the perpetrator and the victims are
being silenced. And that's very concerning.
We're seeing that all over that.You know, I mentioned in my book
that sadly, I'm, I've not been able to write it as I would
because many whistleblowers are silenced and serving prison
sentences. So we're seeing that and, and my
(06:11):
book goes through my journey of going to the police for help.
As I mentioned in 2015, I I wentto the police because I had a
duty of care to children. And it shows the whole systemic
abuse set up that perpetrators are protected and we can't deny
(06:32):
that because they are. I I totally agree with that, and
there are many other people who would agree with it.
But perhaps for the the audience, I could reinforce what
Vicky's just said by saying thatat the little event I've just
mentioned in the short talk thatI gave to those ladies, I showed
(06:53):
a clip of the former Tory whip Tim Fortescue in 1995, I think
it was. He was speaking to the BBC.
So there's there's a little clipthat people can find on YouTube
where this Tory whip, Tim Fortescue is talking to ABBC
(07:13):
reporter and he's describing thewhip's job and he looks at the
camera and says, well, MPs couldcome to us, sorry.
MPs would come to us with problems.
It could be anything. It might be money, it might be
little boys and we would fix it for them.
(07:34):
And then there's a pause and he looks at the camera and says, if
you think that that's a little bit, well, that's a little bit
strange. We, we fixed it for them
because, well, then they would do as we asked.
Anyone with any sense who was introuble would come to the wits
and and tell them the truth and say, no, this, I'm in a jam.
(07:56):
Can you help? It might be debt.
It might be scandal involving small boys or any kind of
scandal which a member seemed likely to be mixed up in.
They'd come and ask if we could help, and if we could, we did.
(08:18):
And we would do everything we can because we would store up
brownie points. If, I mean that sounds a pretty,
pretty nasty reason, but it's one of the reasons is if we can
get a chap out of trouble then you'll he'll do as we ask
forever more. So to ABBC Camera, we have an MP
(08:40):
in a very powerful position as awhip in the Tory party saying
that when MPs came to them having got into trouble because
they were abusing children, the whips covered it up so
effectively they could blackmailthose MPs into following the
political policy. And I showed the clip to the
(09:03):
audience of mothers because I couldn't think of anything more
blatant to prove to them that the system they were up against
was ultimately a system that protected people who were
abusing children. Definitely.
And even going back to why my book's called fruitcake
sarcastically. I've written this sarcastically.
(09:25):
Being a fruitcake in the world'seyes often implies someone is
mentally ill. And that's the tack that they
use all the time to silence people coming forward is that
you are mentally ill. You've got false memory
syndrome. Therapists have planted those
memories. We've recently had a lady called
(09:48):
Lisa Meister on Only God RescuedMe.
She's spoken out on a Christian,a Christian organization, saying
that Satanic ritual abuse doesn't exist and that false
memory syndrome's real. And I'm glad to say that we have
speakers that have now come out,have written a book.
(10:10):
Doctor Jim Friesen has written abook.
He's a pioneer in the treatment of dissociative identity
disorder, an experienced and compassionate psychologist, and
he's written a book called The Truth about False Memory
Syndrome, and we're seeing that even on Netflix programmes that
are coming out. This is a strategy to silence
(10:32):
people that are telling the truth.
Yes. And ultimately it makes sense
because of course abusers and people who are involved in the
abuse rings and are indeed running the abuse rings will do
anything and everything in orderto hide what they're actually
doing. And so nobody in this country in
(10:55):
my, my mind should be surprised with the idea that that the
cover up is very big and it goesthrough all layers of society.
So in various cases over the years, it's clear that there was
a cover up by social services, by the police, even through the
courts and certainly through thepolitical system.
(11:19):
Where of course, we've seen evencases in the past involving the
Tory party where it's become clear that even MI 5 was in the
wings knowing what, what, what was actually taking place.
MPs abusing children, but absolutely no action was taken
(11:40):
against them. So this cover up is real.
And and if the victim, the person who suffered the abuse,
can be branded as mentally ill or suffering from some
psychological diagnosis, psychiatric diagnosis, this is
used to undermine their testimony and their status as a
(12:04):
credible witness. This is also part of mind
control. Children that are so
horrifically abused are often hypnosis is used and mind
control so that they never ever tell.
And it's it's sort of implanted that if they ever tell they will
be punished. If they ever tell, they will go
to prison themselves if they ever speak out.
(12:26):
So it's like an inbuilt trigger to silence you.
And we know as a Christian that that can be a demonic
stronghold. But once the truth comes, once
you know that God will defend you when you speak out.
And you know, obviously I believe that that's the
Christian route of speaking out.I've found that God has
(12:47):
protected me over these 36 yearsand he's given me more of a
voice than ever. And I just wanted to go back to
the issue of ridiculing those who speak out.
We find that trolls hide behind fake names.
They don't name who they are. Whereas I don't need to hide my
(13:08):
face. I don't need to.
I'm not ashamed. There's no guilt or
condemnation. Now that I'm a Christian and I I
truly believe that God is the truth and he defends the truth
and he is a God of justice. Very, very important, Vicky.
And we'll certainly delve into that a little little bit more.
(13:31):
Just bringing you back to 2015 to is setting the scene a little
bit for the audience, isn't it? Back in 2015, you'd got to the
stage where you wanted to speak out about what happened.
What was it back then that had moved you to the point you
thought, right, I actually want to be speaking out rather than
(13:57):
just trying to fight the battle myself by going to say I know
that you went to the police, youwent to politicians, you you
would you were fighting that battle yourself.
What got you to the point where you thought you were prepared to
actually stand up in front, in front of the wider public and
speak about what had happened toyou?
(14:20):
I do believe that it's like a jigsaw.
It's come to me. So back in those days, it was
my, it was AI mention all this in my book, the head of Child
Watch, the founder of Child Watch.
Obviously I went to her for healing, you know, for help in
overcoming the abuse in my own life.
But then that led me to contacting my MP and it's been a
(14:44):
journey since then. But the more that it's been has
been exposed and you know, I've jotted a few things down because
two, since our interview in 2015, for those who want to go
back and look at it, so much hasbeen exposed that's mentioned in
that interview. And so it's in a case of doors
opening for me. I've always said to the Lord,
(15:06):
you know, if you want me to speak, I will because that's my
duty of care. But I haven't pushed myself
forward. People have contacted me to
speak because they can see that they can see what's happening.
Survivors. I didn't know an SRA survivor
when I grew up and remembered cloaks and going out in the
(15:27):
night. I didn't know what that was as a
child and black cloaks, I didn'tknow what the word was for it,
but since and I didn't know any other survivor.
But now we have worldwide survivors coming forward.
Maggie Oliver, who has been exposing the grooming gangs, who
talks about the corruption in the police force.
(15:50):
She has been on platforms with other SRA survivors.
So satanic ritual abuse is already here.
They can't cover it up anymore. It's already here.
This, this is absolutely true, absolutely true.
Vicky, you've been through a lotand the whole purpose of your
(16:13):
book was to be be giving the reader and the wider audience
that comes comes out of having written a book and understanding
of what's happened to you. Now you you've touched there on
memories of being surrounded by people in black cloaks.
(16:33):
At the time we spoke in 2015, you were talking about some of
the things that had happened to you, memories that were coming
to the surface. But at that stage, even in the
interview with me, you were not revealing things in the detail
that you have in your book. And so we we can clearly see
(16:56):
that over 10 years, you've grownmuch stronger in the way that
you're approaching this subject and with the truth sets you
free. Pardon.
The truth sets you free. The truth sets you free.
What can I say to that? Well, it's absolutely true that
that that is correct. The point I'm getting to is that
(17:18):
in in your book, you give a veryclever story of your life and
how how things came to the surface.
You talk about memories, you talk about strange things that
were happening to you. You talk about abuse in its
(17:40):
rawest form. And then you take us through the
journey of how you started to put pieces together.
You challenged some of the family members who'd carried out
that abuse on you, and ultimately you got to a point
where by embracing spirituality,in particular Christianity, that
(18:01):
gave you the strength to actually renew yourself and to
heal from a lot of the things that you've been through.
There are still many people who do not understand what abuse
really is. And this is such a difficult
thing to to to deal with becauseif we are to tell the truth
(18:23):
about what's going on with children, we have to talk about
what it is that's going on. We can't deal with such a
critical system and pussyfoot around how things are described.
And yet I know that there are many really excellent people out
there worldwide. I'm not just talking talking
(18:43):
about the wonderful people we'vegot supporting the UK column and
being our viewers, but they findit so hard to even listen when
people are starting to describe what goes on.
But as an adult, if we are to get to grips with this subject,
we have to understand what it's really about and, and how these
(19:06):
crimes are perpetrated because if we don't understand how this
works, we can't deal with it. Where I am getting to Vicky, is
that in the early stage of your book, you talk about some of the
things that happened to you as achild.
And will you tell us like I can give you some prompts, but well,
(19:29):
let let me do this. I, I know that fairly soon in
the book that you are talking about things you experienced as
a child, which are everything from being taken out of your own
bed and carried into your father's bed where you were
abused, to really quite sadisticincidents where you were hurt
(19:53):
with a poker at the fireside andthere are other events.
Are you able to talk the audience into this, into this
very difficult area when we're not going to?
We're not going to flaw people, but I think it is appropriate
that you actually give some detail to what child abuse is
(20:18):
actually about. Before I I again, please don't
think that you're upsetting me by talking about it, because I
am. I am healed.
It's rather like looking at a physical scar on perhaps your
arm. I've got an A scar on my arm
where I fell asleep in front of the fire and I and I was burnt.
(20:39):
And I look at that scar and it'shealed.
I can remember what happened, but when I touch it, the body
has healed. And the same has been for me.
We're talking about spiritual healing.
For me, that's Christianity because in in the word of God,
it says Jesus came to destroy the works of the devil.
(21:01):
And my belief is that God is good and the devil's bad and
people who do evil are being controlled by by evil forces.
But going back to so asking me questions, I'm I'm healed now so
I can talk about the abuse without any pain.
(21:23):
I have the memories of what happened, but it doesn't trigger
me. There's no pain because the Holy
Spirit has done that healing work in my life, which I'm so
grateful for. But going back to the memories,
yes, it's called grooming. If you are being looked after by
an adult and you do what they ask you to do, you are innocent.
(21:47):
You have no control. Therefore, the things that
happened to me, I, I, I did under that influence.
And yes, there was sodomy, whichis buggery, you know, that is
the back end where you are abused.
(22:08):
Therefore, I mention all this inmy book.
But I don't like to glorify evil.
I don't like to focus and give the devil any more power than
he's already got. I like to look at the solution
and the way out. But yes I was sodomized and I
suffered Constipation right through my childhood because of
that. And also oral sex where he would
(22:33):
put his penis in my mouth and that is common in I I hate to
say the word normal child sexualabuse CSA because there's
nothing normal about abuse at all.
Abuse is evil on any level, but these are the things that go on.
We we've had so many cases coming forward of abuse.
(22:55):
We've had Harvey Weinstein, we've had the Epstein case,
we've had all Jimmy Savile. We are in those days.
We've had the Balenciaga scandal.
What else that we've had? We just, we see it every day.
We're being anaesthetized to evil.
Even when you listen to the newsnow where, where there's been a
(23:18):
murder or a rape and then they move on quickly to the weather
and you think for good, can I just take a breath?
Somebody has just been raped. A 12 year old has been raped.
And we're talking now in mainstream media as if this is
like going shopping. We are being anaesthetized to
(23:41):
evil and we have to you know, the Bible says that when the
enemy comes in like a flood, Godraises the standard.
And the point of these interviews, the point of
speaking out, is that we have tostop evil.
We are called to destroy the works of the devil.
We are called to expose the evildeeds of darkness, and that's
(24:04):
what I know I'm called to do as a Christian.
That is my moral duty as a Christian is to expose the evil
deeds of darkness, not to shame people, but to lead people into
truth. Even perpetrators are deceived.
They're under, they're under that sort of mind control that's
perhaps happened to them as a child, often within satanic
ritual abuse. It's generational, so you know,
(24:27):
but you have to break the cycle.It has to stop somewhere, and it
stopped for me when I became Christian.
Just what just one wonderful Vicky and I totally agree with
you. We are at the point where I
think there are very powerful forces that want to normalise
this sort of behaviour as if it's totally acceptable.
(24:50):
And, and this is one of the key reasons I think why we are
seeing some truly appalling grooming of very young children
happening through the school system, the education system
itself, where children are beingexposed to ever more explicit
sexual material. And I think it's appropriate
(25:13):
just to give a mention to the wonderful ladies in South Wales,
Public Child Protection Wales, Kim Isherwood and her team
who've been doing such a great job warning parents what what is
being done to the children in this grooming that's going on in
schools, in primary schools, under the under so-called
(25:37):
religious and sex education. It's it's quite, it's outrageous
and it needs to be stopped. Yeah, I totally agree with that.
It is legalizing satanic practices.
We've seen even during the lockdown and and during COVID
where full term abortion was, was trying to be legalized.
(25:58):
We're seeing the perversion of children.
We now know it's a huge industryof child sex trafficking that's
that's out in the open now. We've seen adults in the care
system speaking out. ICSA, which is the independence
inquiry into child sexual abuse.You've had so many survivors
come forward to that platform, but then when you look at that
(26:20):
platform, the leaders were removed.
Whenever we hear of breakthroughin any area, it's stopped higher
up. Absolutely correct.
I've been highly critical of the, it's the so-called
independent child abuse inquiry because we know for a fact that
(26:42):
key witnesses, including witnesses, that witnesses whose
original testimony helped createthe child abuse inquiry in the
1st place, their, their personaltestimony was so powerful, the
police were engaged. In fact, some people did go to,
to prison. But strangely, the, the ICSAR
(27:04):
inquiry then failed to call those, those people as, as
witnesses at the inquiry. And then the next thing is we
say what has actually changed asa result of the inquiry?
There's lots of good words, thousands of words get written.
But when we say, OK, what's actually been done on the
streets in order to stop this? The answer, the answer's nothing
(27:28):
and I'll, I'll just add to that before it come back to you is
that is, is that I was also senta document last week.
It was printed in November 2024 by Truth Commission, which is a
group of very good people at theWestminster End and, and through
(27:49):
some of the universities who've been collecting statistics on
the damage done to families and children via the the child
protection system, social services system.
Incredible data and and some really powerful statements from
parents saying how they've been belittled, abused, let down, a
(28:12):
complete lack of independence ORproper justice.
Very, very hard hitting. But Even so, that report simply
not covered in mainstream media with with the with the vehemence
that it it deserves. So I'll just add that to the mix
as well. And and people are afraid.
(28:33):
People are afraid to corroborateand come forward, but that's
what's needed. It's fear that silence is us.
I didn't just write the book fruitcake or bearing fruit.
I wrote a book called Persistentpoems.
I've actually got it here. And I, I wrote this at the
beginning of that's also in Amazon and Kindle.
And that was to awaken a deceived generation where we're
(28:55):
actually even within that I usedto wake up in the night with,
with different poems and words of all the child trafficking
that's going on. But we, we are seeing that
police evidence is lost. Cases are shut down because fear
is the weapon they used to silence.
(29:17):
But you see, when you walk in faith, you can't walk in as a
Christian. You don't walk in faith and fear
at the same time. Fear, I believe is from the
enemy. Faith is from God.
But you know, with faith, I believe that just just as we've
seen in in the Epstein trials and Harvey Weinstein, as people
come forward together, those that have perhaps taken their
(29:40):
cases to the police with evidence like I did, I had
evidence to go to the police, Then there must be those cases
that can still come forward and join together and say something
must be done because there isn'ta law in our in the UK against
satanic ritual abuse. Well on on On the contrary,
(30:02):
Vicky in the 50s, I can't remember the exact date, but it
was the 1950s, they they actually were repealing laws
about practicing of witchcraft. Yes, that's where it all
started. Yeah.
So we we can see a trail throughsociety that that shows that
(30:24):
some really strange, we could say strange things have gone on,
but where you would have thoughtpractices that were clearly
damaging to individuals where previously there was some
attempt to control them, from that time onwards we've seen the
opposite it. We've seen a loosening up of
everything in society, which is making ever more deviant
(30:47):
practices ever more acceptable, and that's got to be a
deliberate policy. Yes.
And we're, we're seeing that this is a spiritual battle.
We're seeing that every religionhas a voice, but the Christian
voice and, and, and, and the moral decline of the UK, you
know, morals and, and different cultures within religions.
(31:09):
We're, we're seeing that. So we know it's a spiritual
battle and we sadly, we can't fight that spiritual battle.
Just on a human level. We can't, we need God.
We need, we need our nation to come back to God and he will do
it. He is exposing us.
He's lifting the veil of deception as we speak.
It's it's happening everywhere. And he won't be mocked.
(31:32):
He won't be mocked. There is, there is clearly
something very special that's happening at the moment.
A lot of people are waking up because they, they are sensing
that something's wrong. They certainly sense a sort of
oppressive feel around them and they are, they are looking,
they're looking for answers. And I, I have found that over
(31:56):
the last 10 years there's, there's been a huge change in
what you can talk about. So now there's very little
problem in talking to people from a spiritual angle.
They listen, they ask very good questions, they're very open to
the idea that there's more to itthan men and politics.
(32:16):
And I, I've found this, this absolutely fascinating.
If I go back 20 years, when I first started speaking out on a
number of issues, if I did a public talk and a venue, people
might come forward to the stage at the end of the talk.
And then they quietly say, do you think there's more to it?
And I, I would always prompt them by pretending not to
(32:40):
understand what they were talking about and saying, well,
what do you mean by that? And they say, well, do you, do
you think it's spiritual? And then I, I would always say,
yes, it's absolutely spiritual. But now we're seeing more and
more people in searching for answers are a lot more receptive
to the idea that this is what's really happening.
(33:02):
Yes. And this generation, no, they're
more awake than than my generation and older than myself
because they see it through Hollywood.
They see it through the Illuminati.
We've had P Diddy that's been arrested.
It's everywhere. And you know, the church must
rise up because Jesus is the answer.
You know, everywhere I seem to go that God seems to have a
(33:25):
theme that hope has a name and his name is Jesus.
And that's the the issue now. We, we're already seeing
spirituality through the music industry.
And I was trying to speak that out years ago.
We've had Robbie Williams speak out.
It's we've, we've had, you know,so many celebrities talking
(33:47):
about the dark, dark witchcraft,black magic that's happening in
the elites. You know, the elites are running
the show. And that's where we have to push
back the darkness. And going back to officers that
were in my case, they've told mesince that they have training
(34:08):
that, that, that they didn't know what I was talking about
them. But now they do.
So when people say that it doesn't exist and yet officers,
officers have told me that they've had training about
ritual abuse, They might not call it satanic, but you've also
had the Glasgow satanic ring exposed.
(34:28):
It's it this has been in main onmainstream media as well.
The Glasgow Satanic ring, the word satanic, it's evil and we
have to name it for what it is. We can't keep being ostriches.
We can't keep brushing things under the carpet because evil
only prospers when good men do nothing.
And as, as I say as a Christian,the devil only prospers when
(34:50):
God's men do nothing. Yes, Vicky, can I encourage you
just to take us through a littlebit more of the book.
Thank you very much for being sofrank about basics of some of
the things that have happened toyou because that puts a
foundation we can now move on. But there's another aspect which
(35:12):
I think you should be able to comment on and that's the
business about how how children are controlled in inside a
family situation in order to keep them silent and can keep
them compliant. A lot of people can't understand
how this sort of stuff takes place.
(35:35):
Are you able to to just comment just a little bit?
It doesn't. It doesn't need to be too much
too heavy, but on the sorts of things that you were told in
order to allay fears or concernsyou had or to keep you, keep you
quiet. My belief of why people don't
(35:57):
speak out is that you love your family there.
There is still a bond that you love your family and it costs to
tell the truth. So everything's fear based.
Everything is that something will happen to you if you tell
somehow you were complicit as a child, that's being abused as
(36:19):
well. Your body responds to that
abuse, and that's quite a sensitive subject to speak about
that I do, I do speak about in the book, but your body
responds, you have sensations incertain areas of abuse.
Therefore you think that you're somehow to blame.
And the groomer, the abuser willalways put the blame on you.
(36:44):
And that keeps you locked in because you're going to be in
trouble, right? Why would you?
You've nowhere to go if you're being abused within your home,
where are you to go if you tell?And it's, it's not only your own
protection. For me as I became an adult, it
was the it's just such a terrible subject that it affects
(37:07):
everybody around you. It's affected my husband, it
affects my own children. To think of what their mum went
through, it affects the love that you have for extended
family. How what's it going to cost
them, their reputations, their jobs.
And I've had other people withinmy family contact me since that
(37:33):
wanted to come forward at the time but had too much shame.
They said they felt ashamed. Now that's a terrible thing
because the shame is not on the person that's being abused.
I was a child and that's why I can hold my head up and say I
was a child. There's a very big difference.
(37:54):
I have no control over what happened to me and and that's
why paedophilia is so evil. When we hear about the grooming
gangs, it is so evil applying with drugs, using drugs to, to
anaesthetize you and to detention, tempting, you know,
(38:16):
when you see the grooming gangs tempting youngsters with, with
items and then luring them in. But there's an agenda behind it
and, and that's all part of the grooming.
People need to to understand that.
And grooming spiritually is a form of mind control.
We only need to see what happened through COVID.
(38:37):
If you put enough fear on the television about COVID, you
won't be going anywhere. You know, there was the power to
lock the whole world down because of fear.
But I like to look at fear as false evidence appearing real.
I believe that we have faith over fear and, and, and that's,
(38:57):
and that's why I speak out. I believe that true freedom is
found in not living under fear anymore.
Vicky brilliant. We that takes us to a nice point
because really, if my memory is correct in your book, once
(39:20):
you've been able to challenge some of your own family members
in respect to the abuse you've suffered and also in respect why
some didn't speak up, you were you were on a journey to
understand what had happened to you.
You went through some quite troubled times, but then you
(39:41):
started to be looking for the way out and one of the first
places that you got involved with was the church.
But I think you said that your initial experience inside the
church was that it was a very cold and hard and you were
trying to connect with God, but that didn't go as well as as
(40:03):
you'd hoped. You also got in touch.
With well actually you, you worked alongside a group which
said they were a Christian groupand you did a little bit of
therapy with them. You correct, do correct me if
I've got this, got this wrong. You did some therapy and in that
(40:24):
therapy, some of these memories came to the surface, but you
quickly realised that the group that had set out or said they
were there to help you weren't, how do we describe this?
They, they weren't genuine Christians and their, their
(40:46):
spiritual path wasn't in the right direction.
So just take us through that little bit of how did you go
looking or find that you were looking to the church in order
to help climb out of this very deep dark hole that you were in?
Well. It was a relative but had become
(41:08):
a Christian first that said thatI would only get better if I
went to church. And I remember mocking and
saying what on earth do I want to go to church for?
Because we do blame God for the bad things that happen.
We do not realize that evil comes from a source and that's
Satan and that's, that's all biblical.
So we do blame God for the negative things that happened in
(41:29):
our lives. But yes, I went to church and I
had a battle. I, I felt the presence of God.
I believe that God's knocking oneverybody's door before they
even walk into a church. But I was seeking any way to
have healing, to seeing rather like a festering wound and
(41:50):
thinking I just need this medication, clear it up, get the
plaster on and I can get on withmy life.
But I realized that things wouldtrigger me within church.
The presence of God triggered meand sadly a lot of people, not
through their own fault, didn't understand how I why I couldn't
go up for communion, didn't understand the fear of hearing
(42:12):
the word sing and punishment. And if I even heard those words
I would be triggered. There would be a a physical
reaction and manifestation. And Vicky, you say that because
in memories that you had you, you had specific memories of
people taunting you. So the these, these, this, this
(42:36):
was an abusive setting where youwere being taunted that you were
the 1 who'd committed the sin and therefore you need needed to
be punished. Yes, yes, and that's exactly
what Satanism does. We'll use the word of of Jesus
to so that you never ever tell and it's not the real Jesus.
(42:56):
And that's that's the sad part. But then I went to the spiritual
healing. I I went down every Ave. that
was opened, but I'd already had the memories.
I want to come back to the fact where people say that the
memories came up through therapy.
My husband can verify that I hadmany memories before the
therapy, but the therapy helped me to understand what those
(43:19):
memories were, what those dreamsthat I regularly woke up in the
night with. I would wake up in the night
seriously with a squishy sausagecoming at me.
And I would be crying and perspiring in the night.
And I would say to my husband, you know, this squishy sausage
is coming at me. And it was through that, that I
was reliving as an adult in my dreams, the oral sex that sadly
(43:45):
happened to me as a child. So, you know, you dissociate.
This is what the ID is, or it used to be called multiple
personality disorder. In order for a child to survive,
you split off. It's it's like fragmentation and
and it takes time for those parts to be made whole.
(44:09):
And once that healing comes, thelittle girl is healed.
So you can have you know, you find that you know, the child
would come up up in me many, many times.
I would react like a child, evendealing with my own children.
I used to think what on earth iswrong with me?
But now I understand and and I have found the right church
(44:33):
through my book. It explains that often it was
African ministers that understood witchcraft.
They understood the bondage thatI was in because it's very open
in their country. Witchcraft is very open in their
country. They either go to church or they
go to the doctor or the witch doctor.
Here it's dressed in suits and overalls.
It's under different guises of spirituality, but it's still
(44:55):
demonic. That that's a very powerful
explanation, Vicky. And although it was very many
years ago, but I've also spoken to some African pastors and, and
I, I've found that their instinctive knowledge of really
dark stuff going on in Uki mean one who'd, who'd come across in
(45:19):
order to give some sermons, including in Plymouth at, at one
particular stage. His comment was that as he was
taken and sort of people being kind to him, they were showing
him parts of the country. But he said I, I would be taking
places and I would be seeing things which I, I, I inherently
(45:40):
knew were very dark. So these might be pictures or
they might be so-called works ofart, but he was very clear that
what he was seeing was not of the light.
And I, I found the discussions with one, one of those men in
particular, very, very interesting.
Also, when I went on Radio 4 many years ago, I wondered
(46:04):
whether I should leave my name. I was asked to leave my name.
And then I thought, no, I I needto.
There's no point me speaking outif I'm, if I'm not going to, to
be able to help. And as I when I got home, I had
a phone call from ABBC producer who said because I'd left my
number, he said, I think I'm going out at night.
(46:27):
I think things are happening to me because I'm waking up and all
my feet are scratched and dirty.I think I'm going out in the
woods at night. That was ABBC producer Ryan.
Yeah. Don't you don't just have random
phone calls from a stranger who's ABBC?
Those things just don't happen because it's true this is
happening. The, the evidence is all there,
(46:50):
Vicky, there's no no question ofthis, but we we live in a state.
People like to think that we're in the UK in 2025 and it's an
upstanding Christian country with a system of law and order.
It's a democracy. This is absolutely false.
We live in an increasingly corrupt and wicked country and
(47:12):
at the end of the day, anything you can imagine is going on.
And whereas in years gone, days gone by, whether we go back ten
years or 50 or 200, these thingswere going on.
They were largely under the surface because they were a body
of people in the country who realised who, who could say the
(47:33):
difference between right and wrong.
And we're back on that subject of of now we have the fact that
the evidence is all there, but it's suppressed.
Let me just. But I do believe we have hope.
I do. Believe.
That as, as all this is being exposed, it's being exposed for
a reason, because they need revivals here, more young men
(47:55):
are going back to church. More, more people are realizing
that they can't just do this life on their own.
They need God. And and so often persecution
comes to bring revival. But you know, I, I do believe
that everything that's being exposed that has gone on for
years is happening because it's God who's doing it.
(48:16):
He's exposing it. And that is true and also good
people and very brave people like yourself Vicky, are being
used in order to expose what is happening.
Because bringing things to the light is, is an absolute
fundamental part of dealing withthe problem in the 1st place.
And I say. One thing.
(48:36):
Go on. The devil loses his power when
things are brought to the light.He loses his power because the
occult means hidden. When you expose things, that's
when they lose their power. Yeah, you got involved with one.
Well, you you tried to get involved with a a church.
(48:58):
You then got involved with a so-called Christian group.
You did you did get some good things came out of that.
But let's just say they, they weren't quite the, the people
for you, but later you were to meet a particular pastor who
clearly made a big impact on youand gave you help.
Just can you talk us through howyou really started to move into
(49:23):
this spiritual side where, whereyou, you were really coming to
the grips with, with the real issues of what this whole thing
was about? What, what did that?
How did you meet the pastor and and what did he actually do for
you? Dennis Wrigley was the founder
of Maranatha. I would call him my spiritual
(49:44):
father. He was very much a father
figure, but understood he he wrote an article to the House of
Commons, What on earth are we doing to our children?
And they also had a ministry called Trumpet Call where in all
those years ago we could see laws being changed, children's
(50:04):
innocence being stolen. So he was very much, I would say
had a prophetic voice. He, he's now passed on.
He's, he's, he's, he's passed on.
I believe he's, he's in heaven now.
But Dennis was very instrumentaland I had healing.
I had in the way that you would go to a secular counsellor and
(50:26):
talk through your problems. Prayer is talking to your
problems with God. So I would go for prayer
ministry and that that was many leaders God led me to that
helped me enormously where I would talk through issues, but
God was present. So you're not just talking
(50:49):
through the issues to relive them.
There's spiritual healing from the right source at the time.
So it's freeing instead of it just being traumatic.
So some of them, some of the healing I have that where I went
to what I would call a new age ministry, not not real
Christians. They thought they were.
(51:09):
So bless them too because they're in deception, but they
thought that they were walking in the truth.
I would have the memories, but not the healing with it.
I'd just have more anger and I'dwant to shout and and say go and
get them, go and get them. Where is the Christian voices?
Go and save them. The Christian voice doesn't go
(51:30):
and get them. Otherwise we'd all, we'd all
fall very, very short. It's it's go and save them
because people are deceived. And so my journey was prayer
with counselling, with God's presence, and it's been
miraculous. But I don't think people need to
go through everything that I went through.
There's far more knowledge aboutabuse now.
(51:53):
I spent many years just trying to get people to believe me and
that's still the issue today. That's why many people won't go
to church, because church often won't talk about these things.
They think we don't talk about the dark side.
We don't. Well, if you don't expose the
enemy, that's how he goes hidden.
That's how there's infiltration in your churches.
(52:14):
That's how you have Mace. You know, top end of the Masons
is, is very hidden. You have Masons within the
church. It it, it, it has to be spoken
about. Yes, indeed.
So he, he, he gave you considerable help and, and, and
you obviously learnt a lot through that.
(52:35):
But at one point in the book, you talk about a particular
occasion when you were, you werein church and you asked God for
help and something happened. Do you remember that incident in
in in the book you you're asking?
There's so many, there's so manybrides.
I think you describe it as a feeling of pins and needles in
(52:59):
your arm. Oh yes.
Oh, that was so powerful. Yes, I was in church and I like
to come to God. I believe prayers, talking to
God. I don't think we need to make
things difficult, complicated. I think the gospel is very
simple. But I was in church.
It was an informal worship and Iwas in a very angry state.
(53:19):
And it wasn't a normal service. It was just an evening service
with worship and prayer. And as the worship group were
praying, one of the worship leaders had a picture of a
shield, and he was describing the shield, saying this.
It was shiny and one thing or another.
And I was sat there quietly on my own, but I was mocking and I
(53:41):
was sort of looking at my hands,my head down with my hands
between my legs, and I was looking around saying, oh, who?
Ray Henry's seen a shield. What do we all do now?
Because the service carried on, we carried on singing.
Then it came to the prayer time and the vicar said I was in a
Church of England church at the time.
The vicar said now this is the time for everybody to bring
(54:04):
their own personal prayers. So I was sat with my hands, my
head bowed down, my hands between my legs and I said, you
just tell me one thing God. I said how come evil seemingly
has so much power in the world and pins and needles shot up
both my arms. And I audibly heard the words
(54:25):
not if you wear your shield. And Ephesians 6 in the Word of
God talks about putting on the armour of God and that the
shield of faith extinguishes allthe dots of the devil.
And I've had those encounters. Nobody can ever take your
(54:46):
testimony away. It says in the Word that you
overcome by the blood of the Lamb and the word of your
testimony. I've had those profound
encounters with God, and that's why I believe that I can sit
here today and speak as freely as I do.
And we are very, very grateful that you're doing that.
Vicky, the time, time is right. And we, we didn't even manage
(55:09):
the first slot, did we? When we said we were going to do
the interview, there was something came up and we've had
to wait a couple of weeks. But if it's, if there's one
thing that I've learnt over all the time that I've been doing
things with the UK column, it's things only happen when the time
is right. And if you try and force it and
you get frustrated and, and angry, often the solution is you
(55:31):
just need to wait a bit because when the time's right, all the
pieces fall into place. So I'm going to say I, I've also
experienced, experienced that you are able to use this.
It's, it's a huge spiritual stepping stone for you, isn't
it? It's something that takes you
into a, a completely different frame of mind about yourself
(55:54):
and, and indeed the battle you're in.
So the book is is a very uplifting book because it goes
from all of the sad times and and the dark times around that
abuse and it takes the reader through your life, all the
challenges, and then ultimately to a point where you are a
(56:15):
completely different person as aresult of your spiritual
journey. It's obviously made you much
stronger. Are you still fighting at the
moment to try and do something about what's happening and the
fact that we still have thousands of children that are
suffering this type of abuse? I believe that this is, this is
(56:37):
the part of still fighting, doing interviews like this.
I recently did an interview on Tough Talk with Joe Lampshire.
There are, there are so many. You know, you only need to go.
It's, it's not through mainstream media that this is
going to be dealt with. It is, it is through and it's
not going down rabbit holes or conspiracy theories.
(56:59):
But you know, there is a, a wordI remember when everybody kept
accusing us of conspiracy theories.
And you're a, it says in the Bible, don't call conspiracy
what these people call conspiracy.
So not everything's conspiracy. We really, really do need
wisdom. But this is fighting.
Speaking out about it, I believe, will give other people
(57:21):
courage to come forward. And I believe that eventually
there will be that corroboration, as there has been
with other cases. And I think that there there
will be an overturn of evil. I do believe that there will be
an overturn. But we know in the Bible that
we're in the last days, so we wecan't change what's going to
happen. But I believe it's the church's
(57:43):
finest hour to rise up and shineand have holy boldness.
That's what I believe. We, we, this is, this is a very
good point. We can't change what's going to
happen, but we, we've got a it falls on all of us to help the
people who can't help themselves.
That that I believe is, is, is akey point.
(58:05):
And and of course, you've already mentioned the
vulnerability of children. So there is no adult or should
be no adult in this country or worldwide that is going to stand
idly by while children are badlytreated and abused.
Yeah. And the the other bit I'll just
(58:26):
add is that in, in meeting the mums I I met a few days ago
who'd all had children taken away from them.
The newer ones were still in a pretty bad place.
And there there was a lot of very powerful, tough emotions in
the day. But in the afternoon we got
(58:46):
talking more about the wider battle.
And one of the things that I said to them, I showed them a
video clip of, of some of the interviews that I've done with
the mothers who've been brave enough to speak out about the
trauma of having their children stolen by the state.
So I showed a little 9 minute video clip of some of these
(59:08):
mothers speaking. And yes, it did.
It was very hard for some of themums present to watch it.
But the point that I wanted to make is that those mothers had
got to the point where they werebrave enough to speak out and
tell their story. And of course, what happens when
they do more mothers come forward.
(59:29):
And then the second point that Imade was that although a lot of
the mums, they've all been through the court system and
they've all, all experienced drowning in court documents,
bundles of paper, which is supposedly the evidence.
But I kept saying to these ladies, you are the evidence.
(59:49):
You are the people who've experienced what what has
happened, things have been done to you.
It's your testimony that makes the evidence as to what's going
on. And of course, if there are
thousands, if there were to be thousands of mothers coming
forward talking about child's, how their child's been taken by
(01:00:10):
the state, that is the evidence itself.
And it also applies. In the case of of abuse, the
more people who can be helped and encouraged to speak out, to
speak the truth about what's happened, the more people come
forward and the more we are thengetting these terrible things up
(01:00:31):
to the surface where they can bedealt with.
Yes, and we've seen that with child sexual abuse.
We've seen there is help, now there is people aren't being
silenced. We've seen it in domestic abuse
where women, you know, can now speak out that, you know, people
didn't want to accept that that was going on, that people were
(01:00:52):
being beaten up behind closed doors.
But people, we have to expose evil.
We have to. We want to live in a safe
society. We want our children to be able
to play out safely. It's so much harder to parent
your children these days. And of course, children, indeed
children who've suffered these things, as you have experienced,
(01:01:16):
go on to have problems and then that makes it difficult,
difficult for the next generation of children.
So it's so important to to be able to draw a line under this.
Vicky, coming up to the top of the hour, it's been a
fascinating discussion. I wanted to mention the name
because I think this particular person deserves some
(01:01:38):
recognition. It's it's a man I interviewed on
the UK column many, many years ago.
In fact, I'm allowed to say I think it was that UK column
interview which is the one that took him from being somebody who
was battling behind the scenes to somebody who got recognition
for what he was doing. And that was the former
(01:02:00):
Metropolitan policeman, John Wedger.
And John has given you a lot of support over the years.
Yes, he came to my book launch and he continues to speak out.
You know, this is all, it's all going to happen.
Justice eventually will come. And yes, he continues to speak
(01:02:22):
out and we're still very good friends.
He does an awful lot and and andhe knows what goes on behind the
scenes of the corruption. We're seeing police officers
that are involved with having child pornography.
You know, we're seeing people inplaces of authority doing the
the unimaginable and still the silence.
(01:02:44):
There should be absolute outrage.
There should be outrage. Yes, probably.
Then the other name I should mention this comes into my head.
So I think I'm being told to talk about this man.
Mike Veal was the chief Constable that did all the
investigations around Ted Heath.He did it in a very measured,
(01:03:09):
professional way. And of course, as he delved into
the accusations of abuse around former British Prime Minister
Ted Heath, he he the chief Constable, absolutely vilified
by the press and media, with theBBC in the lead, of course.
And I want to say to the audience that that I understand
(01:03:33):
that he's, you know, he's had togo through a very, very hard
personal battle since he did that police work to try and
protect children from very powerful abusers.
And I know that John Wedger has been trying to give him some
support as well. So there is a price to be paid
(01:03:53):
when people attempt to help. But it's utterly brilliant when
we see these very strong people such as John Wedger and and Mike
Veal, who are two of many who have tried to do something about
it. Yes.
And we also have the reigns listand John Wedge has spoken about
(01:04:13):
that. I was just looking for it.
Just let me think it's important.
While you're looking, I'll just I'll just say to the viewers of.
Importance. I don't know what the Rains list
is. It's a it's a list of names that
was compiled by a lady psychologist who, in trying to
help principally young people who came to her with
(01:04:36):
psychological problems, she discovered in the interviews
that many of them were talking about exactly the sort of abuse
that Vicky Ash has just described.
And she kept notes of the interviews and she built up a
list of names and she built up alittle paragraph summary really,
(01:04:58):
of the person and what they werebeing accused of or what they
were doing. Some of them were abusers, but
some of them were had got responsibility within the abuse
cult. So they were the people who were
the enforcers or they were the snitches.
They were the messengers. And over to you, Vicky.
(01:05:23):
And her name was John Coleman. Yes, you've you've explained
what the Rens list is. And she also always had to put a
name on that list. She always had two independent
witnesses. Yes.
For every name that went on the list.
Yeah, and of course, the point of the list is that it showed a
whole spectrum of society, from people in the very, very highest
(01:05:45):
positions of authority and powerdown to people who were broken
and destitute but were still involved in this type of
activity. Vicky, it's been absolutely
amazing talking to you and I want to really thank you for
being so forthright and describing what this problem is
(01:06:07):
about. Because I absolutely believe
that people have got to understand it for what it is.
And if you are a Christian, I'm going to look you directly in
the eye and say you've got a responsibility to understand
what this is. So all this business, Oh no, I
can't listen to this, it's too upsetting.
You've got a duty to listen to it because you need to
(01:06:29):
understand it because then you can do something about it.
Sorry to be a bit tough on the team, but this is so important
that as things have got tougher in life and we are at this very
important period of of the world, it is very sad to see a
lot of Christians just losing the courage to actually stand up
(01:06:51):
against what is stand up for right in what is a spiritual
battle. Some a final word for you on
that. I believe even other countries
are telling the UK to stand up. Even other leaders elsewhere are
telling us to stand up. I do believe that there will be
(01:07:11):
God will save the UKI do believethat they'll be revival.
And I want to thank you and yourteam Brian, for also being bold
on speaking out on these issues.And that's what we're here to
do. We want people to come into the
truth of of of abuse so that we can protect and save children
and prevent it happening and also the huge industry even of
(01:07:35):
taking children off mothers again, it makes money adoption
and fostering. It's it's all everything's about
money and greed. That is ultimately, but that
again goes back to the Bible that when the devil tempted
Jesus, he said he'd give him thekingdoms of the world, didn't
he? And Jesus said man doesn't live
(01:07:56):
by bread alone. It's a spiritual journey.
So we're we can't be bought off,we can't be paid off, we can't
be silenced. And money isn't our God.
Money isn't our God. But sadly, that's what happens.
You'll lose your job. You will, you will.
It's always hits us in the pursethat'll be taken away from you,
(01:08:16):
your families and and that's to silence.
But the more people come forward, I believe an Army's
rising. An army's rising in these days.
Absolutely. And we, we've gone through the
discussion we've gone through and we've, we, we've got to a
point where we're actually smiling at the moment because we
(01:08:37):
are talking about very positive things.
But of course laughter itself isa very, very powerful weapon
because the people ranged against us doing these terrible
things don't want happy people. So the more buoyant you can, you
can be laughter is a very powerful tool.
And I will also say, of course, prayer is a very powerful tool.
(01:08:59):
And that is why they are trying to make it unlawful.
What better indicator can you ask for them?
They're trying to outlaw praying.
Why? Because they're frightened of
it. Last comment, Vicky.
And that's where all the mental health and depression, the word
depression comes from, all the mental health issues and
(01:09:22):
hopelessness and disappointment.And that's not the news of the
gospel. The gospel is that hope has a
name and the joy of the Lord your strength.
And I say all this in my book ofmy journey through such trauma
and atrocity that I have a a joythat doesn't come from the
world. I have a peace that doesn't come
from the world. I have an assurance and a
security that comes from God alone.
(01:09:44):
And I believe that that's available to everybody that
listens. And, and I hope that they cry
out to him because he's waiting.He's waiting to hear their
prayer and he's waiting to step in and answer and make a
difference to our dying world because that's what the world
is, dying. But you know, the church is
growing. The church is growing.
(01:10:06):
Amen. Amen, Vicky, thank you so much.
It's it's been fascinating to hear you talk through this and
talk about your book. And I really wish you all the
best in getting the message out there.
You know, that the UK column will do everything it can to
help you and anybody else that'sfighting in this field.
(01:10:29):
And yeah, just thank you. It's been excellent.
Thank you for having me.
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