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August 10, 2025 56 mins
Christopher “Life” Willars is a renowned motivational speaker, prison‑rights and mental‑health advocate, and successful social‑media content creator who, after spending 17 years incarcerated, emerged to co‑found and lead a cosmetology vocational school outside Atlanta called Lasting Layers of Beauty with his wife. He also founded The Life Unit, providing re‑entry support and coaching to those affected by the criminal justice system, helping countless individuals find resilience, purpose, and transformation.

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Episode Transcript

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Speaker 1 (00:17):
Yeah. My name is Christopher Life Willers.

Speaker 2 (00:21):
And present day in twenty twenty five, July thirty first.
I am an activist, advocate, social content creator whose platform
reaches over one hundred million people monthly. Recent recipient of
a proclamation Akaki the city. But before all this, in

(00:42):
two thousand and three, I will sentenced to one hundred
and forty four years in prison. So I'm not even
supposed to be able to be here and have this
conversation right now, but I'm glad I am, and man,
you want me to go straight into how I ended
up getting one hundred and forty four.

Speaker 3 (00:58):
Years, Yeah, sir, if you went in my yeah, oh.

Speaker 2 (01:01):
Man, I get the short version without you know, going
into the extended play is.

Speaker 1 (01:10):
I was a young kid.

Speaker 2 (01:11):
I was nineteen years old, teenager at the time, already
had experienced.

Speaker 1 (01:18):
Being in the military all these things.

Speaker 2 (01:20):
Was a good kid on one side of the tracks,
but on the other I was good at.

Speaker 1 (01:24):
Being over there.

Speaker 2 (01:25):
And I ended up moving to Virginia and being around
a cousin and older cousin friends you know, his of
his older than me and by at least ten years,
et cetera, and I didn't have much of a support group.
That's who I was rocking with those you know, that's
who I started calling friends out there. And one night

(01:46):
when I was over there at his apartment, he essentially
asked me, you know, if I take him and his
people down the street to go stick a place up,
you know the route, you know, do whatever. And at
first I was like, nah, I don't want to.

Speaker 1 (02:02):
Get in trouble. Like I'm not, there's no way.

Speaker 2 (02:06):
But eventually, over time, you know, in the midst of
that night, us further in the conversation and you know,
some other things being involved, he said, well, nobody's gonna
get harmed you, nobody's gonna get unlive then none of that.
I'm not even gonna bring anything real in there. It's
gonna look real, but it's fake. You can't do any
real damage. And through that conversation and not wanting to

(02:30):
be the you know, the guy that chicken out or
whatever it was, I said, Yo, I'm gonna take y'all
for that ride. Y'all want to go so bad and
stick this place, do what you're gonna do. Go add
And I decided to drive him, and probably what was
a seven or eight minute car ride felt like two hours.
It was October, it was cold, it was rainy, and

(02:53):
I remember the whole time I'm driving them. One I
don't know where we're going, but two, I can feel
that this is not gonna end well.

Speaker 1 (03:03):
And he's telling me turn left right.

Speaker 2 (03:07):
His homeboys in the back, they putting the handkerchiefs over
the face. They you know, they getting ready for the moment.
And next thing I know, he says, park over here.
And as soon as he said that, he's like, we'll
be right back, and they left. They boom, they were
into the darkness. Two minutes while I waited for them

(03:27):
to come back felt like two hours. Because that whole time, man,
there was so many Man I wanted to leave, but
I didn't want to.

Speaker 1 (03:33):
Abandon on it, like especially my cousin.

Speaker 2 (03:35):
I didn't really, honestly, in full transparency, cared too much
about the other guys. They were his people, not mine.
But I knew he was family. I also knew it
was too late. And next thing I knew, truck door
opens up.

Speaker 1 (03:51):
You know, the light.

Speaker 2 (03:52):
Kicks in in the cab, and I can see my
cousin getting in. Money's dropping, you know, his homeboys getting back.
One of them screaming. He dropped the bandana to you
know whatever that was over his face, and I got
no choice but to drive anyways.

Speaker 1 (04:08):
We can't go back out there and grab the stuff.

Speaker 2 (04:10):
But automatically in my mind is we're driving away from
where it went down. I'm trying to justify and tell
myself everything's gonna be okay. That money that fell on
the ground, that rain's gonna wash away the fingerprints, and
hopefully that bandana is gonna wash down the dream.

Speaker 1 (04:25):
But that whole that one night conversation.

Speaker 2 (04:31):
Car ride decide to do that take, you know, be
the driver, would ultimately be the reason that I'd be
standing in front of a judge and being sentenced to
one hundred and forty four years in prison.

Speaker 3 (04:46):
Wow, that's crazy. So so now that we know, uh,
you know what you what you were in prison for,
let's start from the beginning of your life. So can
you share a little bit about your upbringing and the
circumstances that did lead you. I know you talked about
what legend incarceration, but can you talk about like your upbringing,

(05:06):
if you were if it was good dad running the streets,
you know, what type of life you had growing up Yeah.

Speaker 2 (05:12):
I love talking about how I grew up because from
the outside of perspective, most would say he got one
hundred and forty four years he must have been. If
I didn't tell the story, they probably think that I
came up I don't know, but I came up in
a good household. I came up with two parents. The
only thing I have normal about my childhood. I was adopted.
But I was adopted as a baby, so the parents

(05:34):
that adopted me, that's all. I knew my whole life.
And had a dad that went to work, a mom
that worked hard.

Speaker 1 (05:39):
You know. We had a house at first, lived in
the cul de Sac.

Speaker 2 (05:42):
Somethings changed over time, but all in all, I had
some examples.

Speaker 1 (05:46):
I had some people that carred around me.

Speaker 2 (05:48):
I had people that taught me and told me what
to do and what not to do.

Speaker 1 (05:52):
I had family, uncles, all that, you know.

Speaker 2 (05:57):
But I always wanted to explore. And I was one
of those kids that when I got bored with one thing,
I wanted to go learn something else or try something else.
When I got good at riding bikes and I knew
how to jump ramps, the next thing I wanted to
do at the time back then some people might laugh,
but I wanted to learn how to rollerblade and grind

(06:18):
and do all that stuff. And I was one of
those kids. I grasped things quick, so as things progressed.
As I was growing up. Scholastically, I was great a's
b's Athletically. I'm not gonna say I was the top
of the top gifted, but depending on the sport, I
might have been up there, but I was gifted there.

(06:40):
I was one of those kids that I was popular,
but not the arrogant popular. I was cool with everybody,
you know, So I didn't have anything that would have
really stuck out and said, yo, this kid is gonna
go to prison for you know, seventeen years after being
sentenced to one hundred and forty four. Just a kid
that was explored. But what happened was I got so

(07:01):
good at school and all that stuff, I got bored.
So now I wanted to see what was going on
with the kids that didn't go to school, and they
was in the streets and some of my homeboys they
didn't want to go to school anyways. So man, I'm
getting good. I'm gonna skip today. I'm gonna go over
here with y'all, we're gonna start doing XYZ. I'm gonna
start learning about things that have done on the other
side of.

Speaker 1 (07:19):
The track, so to say.

Speaker 2 (07:21):
And you know, that kind of started to plant those
negative seeds in my life, those negative experiences that eventually
took root over time. But the only other thing that
I think one of the things that could have stuck
out was I used to get into a lot of fights.
But the reason I was getting the fights because I

(07:42):
used to get picked on, believe it or not. And
then when as I got older, I was like, yo,
I'm not gonna pick on me. And then I don't know,
I think I was like the light skinned kid in
the hood. I'm just being honest, like whatever at the time,
and YO, used to get into it. And eventually I
got into enough trouble where I was giving the opportunity
to go to a military school.

Speaker 1 (08:03):
Lincoln Challenge Program.

Speaker 2 (08:05):
Went to Lincoln Challenge Program at the age of sixteen,
graduated at seventeen. You're in there. You're there. It's ran
by then Army National Guard. The dropout rate or failure
rate is extremely high. It's like the worst of the
quote unquote worst of the worst kids in Illinois and
you only come home two weekends out the whole time.

Speaker 1 (08:27):
But they give you opportunity.

Speaker 2 (08:29):
You get your ged, they give your stipend, they you
know whatever. But when I graduated, I graduated top of
the class in there what they call the student team leader.
So I excelled again in an environment, and then I
had the opportunity to go into I remember I went
to a resource fair at the end and I went
and spoke to the Marines recruiter and he was like, man,

(08:52):
you should come to the Marines if you want to
serve the country. And my father, uncles, all of them
are military, my nephew, we're a military family. So I
knew I wanted to go into the military, and I
wanted to go into the Marines. And then an Air
Force recruiter walked over and said you're Wheelers right, and
said yeah. He said, well, you know, you scored extremely
high on the ASMAB and you can go come over

(09:13):
here to the Air Force and live a little less
dangerously with some ac and good food.

Speaker 1 (09:18):
And I went to the Air Force. So again the
entire time that I was growing up, I went to
the Air Force.

Speaker 2 (09:24):
By the way, at seventeen and for people to say
you can enlist, that's a lie. You just have to
have permission slips signed, believe it or not. At seventeen
and my mom signed it or whatever.

Speaker 1 (09:33):
Boom.

Speaker 2 (09:34):
But again I was excelling. I was good at but
I was still on both sides of the track when
I was in the military. Once I got through Basic
and I was in tech school and living in Cali,
every opportunity I got to get off base, I was
in the hood. Like one of my homeboys was from Compton.
We out there, we learned whatever. I just started to

(09:54):
gravitate towards the street life. I didn't never want to
be like one hundred percent immersed, but I was one
of them part timers, if you will, And you know
what happens. If you're part time in the streets, You're
gonna end up full time in the pen. I believe that,
you know what I'm saying. So that's what basically what
life was like up until that night where because eventually

(10:19):
in the military I got in troublegain for fighting, et cetera,
and ended up in Virginia. Back in Virginia with family
with that cousin, et cetera, X Y Z, and then
you know, here we go, I'm in the courtroom.

Speaker 3 (10:33):
And how old did you say at the time you
cut your case? I'm sorry nineteen okay, so.

Speaker 1 (10:40):
What excuse me? Eighteen years old?

Speaker 3 (10:43):
Okay? So I imagine were you were. Was it? Was it
a dishonorable discharge?

Speaker 1 (10:47):
Then it was a general discharge under honorable.

Speaker 3 (10:49):
Conditions, okay, And that was that was due to the case.

Speaker 1 (10:54):
No, not at all.

Speaker 2 (10:55):
I got kicked out for separate for fighting and you know,
just stuff off base I was. I was good on base.
I was great at my job, my mos and all that.
But off base, I was getting in trouble fighting.

Speaker 3 (11:07):
Okay. So did you go to prison at the age
of eighteen or did it take a few years for
you to get convicted.

Speaker 2 (11:15):
No, I got locked up right before I turned nineteen,
and I went to prison at nineteen after going through
court and you know all that process.

Speaker 3 (11:27):
So what was it like as a young adult going
through the system, Like did you were you ever like
abused or did you ever see anything like that? Like
what was it like like quote unquote fresh meat in prison?

Speaker 1 (11:37):
You know?

Speaker 2 (11:39):
Uh yeah, I say that's one of those made up
stigmas and stereotypes that probably existed in the eighties, but
I got locked up in two thousand and three. And
maybe that's the case for some individuals, but that's not
really how it goes now. People aren't looking at somebody
as a as a victim as much as they trying

(11:59):
to hide, identify where they from, what block, what neighborhood,
if they're if their opposition. But prison, to me, I
got sent to a level four yard my first goal.
And I think there's a difference no matter what I mean,

(12:20):
different states, you know, it's different. But where I was
at level four to me was the worst of the worst.
Level five, Level six is was, you know, the worst
of the worst, but you're locked in more.

Speaker 1 (12:33):
It's more controlled movement.

Speaker 2 (12:35):
A level for you out could sell a little bit more,
more opportunity for things to go left. And my first
goal was at Sussex two State Prison, which is shut
down now. It's always say thank God, anybody that's ever
been there, I feel for you, but I'm glad we
made it out. But Sussex two was very much, man

(12:58):
it was a terrordome man. It was torture, you know.
It was one of those environments where when you rolled
up on the prison bus. You would see the cement
and barbed wire, and you knew there was nothing around
this thing except for the other prison Sussex one right
across the street for a few miles, and even if
you could find a way to get up off here,

(13:18):
you were never gonna make it through the woods. It
was a place where you knew this was it. And
the first thing or first place of trauma when it
comes to prison for me is pulling up visually seeing that.
But when the guards were saying get off the bus now,
and your shackled at your wrists to your waist, your
waist to your ankles, you're trying to move fast. They're

(13:39):
making you move fast. The shackles are beating the ank
your ankles up, you know all of this. And then
they lead me into a room as they did the
other man, one by one, and you know, they told
us we had to get out the jumpsuit everything else,
and they put a camera on us. And yo, I

(14:01):
used to watch years later or the videos or documentaries
and some of the horrible images that came out about
guantanam Obey, and let me tell you something, that's what
that reminded me of. You're surrounded by guards and they're
just circling you with a camera and what they're doing
is they're trying to identify tattoos, et cetera, to see

(14:21):
if you're you know, in a car, you know, you're whatever,
a STG. But the way that they did it, you know,
to be told to squat and cough in frontmen is
very dehumanizing all that and for the individual, and well,
that's what you signed up for.

Speaker 1 (14:39):
Yeah, maybe I did when I broke the law.

Speaker 2 (14:41):
You're right, when I decided to drive my but it
don't mean that it's not what it is, you know
what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (14:46):
We just want to be clear. But that was the
next form of trauma, or you know what I felt.

Speaker 2 (14:53):
And then once we got through that part and they
led us onto the yard. It was July, it was hot,
and when they opened up it was the door to
let us out onto the yard because we had to
walk across the boulevard this outdoor part to get to
the buildings where we were at. It felt like they
opened the door to the coliseum and we were being let.

Speaker 1 (15:15):
Out amongst a bunch of warriors.

Speaker 2 (15:17):
Everybody was in Burgundy whatever scrubs, you know, dudes, is
running around. You can see they got tools on them whatever,
and they sizing you up.

Speaker 1 (15:28):
Not fresh fish sizing you up.

Speaker 2 (15:30):
They sized you up like theyre trying to figure out
your homeboy or they homeboy that they beefing with is
one of yours or whatever it is.

Speaker 1 (15:38):
And immediately it elevates.

Speaker 2 (15:43):
Within the first twenty four hours that I was there,
I walked over an individual that had some things done
to them and a stairwell evidently owes some debt, et cetera.
I seen two individuals go at each other with you know,
no disregard for their life whatever, you know, trying to

(16:04):
take each other out. All this within twenty four hours.
All that, So you know, prison is very traumatic.

Speaker 3 (16:14):
So are you So are you saying you were in
affiliated at all during your u during your bid?

Speaker 2 (16:20):
No, I'm not saying I wasn't affiliated at all. But
when I first went into the system, I was not
affiliated at all. But when you go to prison, depend
on where you're at, you may have to be affiliate.

Speaker 3 (16:32):
Right, right, So was it?

Speaker 2 (16:33):
So?

Speaker 3 (16:33):
Was it like it is in the movies, like the
African Americans are here, white people are here, Hispanics are here.

Speaker 2 (16:39):
No, not at all? Where I was at in Virginia,
not at all. It's not uncommon for anybody to mess
with anybody, honestly. You know, my my group individuals I
used to you know, be around. Some were black, somewhere hispanic.
We had a white dude, you know what I'm saying.
Whatever it was, but every system is different. The further
out wes you push or down or down south towards

(17:02):
like Texas is definitely like that. But more and more
states are becoming political and you know, racially driven, so
but not there yet.

Speaker 3 (17:12):
Right, So, since you were so young, did you gravitate
gravitate towards like other juvenile offenders that were not juvenile
offenders I'm sorry, like young adults that were around your age.
Were you just mingling with anybody from like any any
age group?

Speaker 1 (17:28):
You know.

Speaker 2 (17:28):
It's like for me, everything was about survival and strategy
in there, like you won't make it to tomorrow depending
on who you deal with and how you deal with.
So I never went looking to make a friend in there,
but if things organically came about, then yeah. But that

(17:49):
being said, no, it's not about It wasn't about age
for me as much as it was about respect and
knowing that this individual right here wasn't gonna try to
take my head off and put essentially might have my
back if somebody else did.

Speaker 1 (18:04):
Yeah, prison is a place where.

Speaker 2 (18:09):
Who you deal with, who you associate with, is definitely
gonna have a big impact on how you do time.

Speaker 3 (18:17):
Right, So, with so much time on your hands, how
did you maintain hope and purpose during your time behind bars?

Speaker 2 (18:26):
I didn't. I maintained discipline. There was plenty of times
where I didn't. I don't know how often I had
hope in prison, Like I always had hope I'd get home,
but there was plenty of times where I was like,
I might not make it. But what I did have
was discipline. I had discipline every single day to get up.

(18:49):
I had discipline to get up and work out. I
had discipline to exercise my mind. I had discipline to
stay grounded in certain things. But that was over time.
You know the first part of my bid I would
I didn't even think about freedom, hope, none of that,
Like I'm nah. I was thinking about how I was
gonna eat, how my people was gonna eat, you know,
how we was gonna make the next move, whatever it was.

(19:11):
As I got older, in there, it was all disciplined
through because man, prison will beat you down mentally to
the point where you're dealing with things like at least
like me, I was dealing with depression and anxiety. I
had times where I wanted to potentially not be here.
Like it's a lots overwhelming. But as long as you

(19:31):
got disciplined in prison, and you keep pushing, you know,
taking that you don't feel like doing the right things
in there and programming and whatever, eventually you'll get out
the door.

Speaker 3 (19:42):
So, speaking of discipline, did you have enough discipline to
where like you wouldn't overreactor or not overreact I'm sorry,
react when like you were trying to punk you out
any way, shape or form.

Speaker 1 (19:53):
I'mould say, Man, I was blessed.

Speaker 2 (19:55):
I never really experienced that, and I'm not I'm never
definitely not one of those guys that gets up here
and tries to like over embellish, but I want of
those guys that gets up here and tries to like
over embellish. But I only experienced one time at the
beginning of my prison sentence and one time at the
end of my prison sentence, and I would say I

(20:18):
have absolutely at that time I had absolutely no control whatsoever,
not at all, And maybe that's why I only ran
into those two situations twice when.

Speaker 1 (20:31):
I first came home.

Speaker 2 (20:33):
To be fully transparent, I did not have the type
of discipline because I came home deeply and seriously impacted
by PTSD and was severely triggered at any given time.
I didn't have the control that I needed when I
first came home either until I started really practicing self
care getting mental health support, and that came after I

(20:54):
came home. So no, I didn't have control. Man, That's
probably what helped me safe in there.

Speaker 3 (20:59):
Honestly, right, was there any type of mental health helping there?
I know, I hear from other prisoners that it's pretty
much a joke and you don't get it if you're
like a you know, like serving a long sentence.

Speaker 1 (21:12):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (21:12):
The issue, well, one, there's really no mental health support
in prisons.

Speaker 1 (21:17):
The other part, or the other.

Speaker 2 (21:18):
Issue is nine times out of ten, the individuals that
are providing the mental health support, they have no idea
what your life is like, where you came from, the
experiences you've lived. So the support that they're able to
provide is cold, is disconnected, it's out of a book.

(21:39):
I will say now though, now you're seeing things like
CPS's certified peers specialists, forensic peers, et cetera, who have
felonies on their record or have certain types of mental illness,
et cetera, but in recovery or you know, whatever it is,
and they're working in the mental health field and providing

(22:00):
support in prisons, et cetera, which is definitely a good thing.
But no mental health support is a joke, and I
would have to say that it's on purpose, you know.
I mean, we've been screaming for years mental health support,
addiction support, et cetera. Especially when you look at the
data and says that the majority of individuals are incarcerated

(22:22):
or based off of mental illness or addiction. But those
are the two places where you do not see support.
And ironically enough, knowing that prison is a business, it
makes sense to them that they don't provide support there.

Speaker 1 (22:33):
So that's the reality of the situation, right.

Speaker 3 (22:37):
Yeah, it's very sad because there's a lot of people
in prison that are severely mentally ill, and now that
we're shutting down mental hospitals, they go to prison unfortunately,
and a lot of them don't make it there or
they get taken advantage of.

Speaker 1 (22:50):
You know, absolutely absolutely.

Speaker 3 (22:53):
So before we talk about your life after prison, I'm
just curious, did you ever run into either John Allen,
Maha Boy Malvou.

Speaker 1 (23:02):
No, what that was a good question.

Speaker 3 (23:04):
And I.

Speaker 2 (23:07):
Muhammed when I was on Greensville Correctional Center. Unfortunately, I
was there when they when they put him in the chamber,
and that brings up a memory because on Greensville where
I was at, that's where they would take individuals to
unlive them at the end of their their prison terms
or whatever, that's what they were sentenced to. And every

(23:30):
time that would occur, they'd locked the prison down at
six pm. And every time something like that was going
to occur where individual was going to be in the
gas chamber, the entire day would be calm, if the
CEOs wouldn't mess with nobody. It was almost like there
was this heavy cloud over the institution every time this
would occur. And this day when it was his turn,

(23:56):
the difference was we looked out the window and there
was news and vans and crowds, and because this was
a big thing. And I also want to say, prior
to me being incarcerated, I was out there in the
Fredericksburg area, et cetera, where they were, you know, doing
some of the things they did, and it was like
a full circle moment because I had remembered when he

(24:19):
they were trying to get into the line, and those
were one of the moments where it kind of woke
me up as well. I was like, man, I could
be in there, but or you know, going that way
if things were worse.

Speaker 1 (24:30):
But I'm I do got a chance at going home.
So that was a good question.

Speaker 3 (24:33):
Man, So how did you escape your inevitable death sentence
in prison?

Speaker 2 (24:41):
So it wasn't it was one hundred The actual sentence
was one hundred and forty four years in prison, all suspended.

Speaker 1 (24:46):
But nineteen oh okay, yep.

Speaker 2 (24:50):
So in the Comonwealth of Virginia, you have to do
eighty five percent of your time and eighty five percent
of nineteen years. I ended up doing a little bit more,
but I ended up doing sixteen years eleven months. I
think I was supposed to go home originally August twenty nineteen.
I ended up going home January twenty twenty, a few
months later or whatnot. But I always mentioned one hundred

(25:14):
and forty four years, because that's the sentence, no matter what,
for the rest of my life, that's the number that's
over my head. If I was to bump my head
one day and decide I wanted to go back into
the streets and do whatever I could get all of
that time plus whatever they wanted to give me. So
it's very real, you know, it's part of my sentence. Unfortunately,

(25:35):
so I didn't escape it, and in reality, I'll never escape.

Speaker 3 (25:40):
It's always there, right right, Yeah, No, No, most definitely.
So do you remember what your first day out was like?

Speaker 1 (25:49):
Man, first day out?

Speaker 2 (25:52):
There's a video of me where my family's all happy
and I'm numb. I'm absolutely numb. I'm out in my mind.
I don't know what's going on. I'm not smiling. You
can see it in my eyes. I'm twitching. PTSD man,
I was the poster child for post traumatic stress disorder

(26:13):
because I had done over three years in solitary. I
had done over seven years, seven and a half years
on a level four. I had did an additional three
years on a level three Greensville, which anybody that's been
in Greensville corrections say they know what it is. You know,
I had been in some real pressure cookers, so to say. So,

(26:38):
the best way I could tell you is I was
so glad that I was free, but my mind didn't
fully get it. My body walked out the prison, but
my mind was still in there. I was still in
prison mode and I needed to be rewired, you know
what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (26:56):
And family picked me up.

Speaker 2 (27:00):
I went to breakfast really quick at MacDonald's real, you know,
just to get a coffee, and you know whatever, We're
on our way to the DMV. And when I went
in there driver services or whatever, I thought I was
going in there just to take to find out how
I could get my license, and they on the first
day said no, go ahead and stand right here.

Speaker 1 (27:19):
We're gonna take your picture. Your license will be here.
And I had my license day.

Speaker 2 (27:23):
One, and that should have been a good moment, but
if automatically, I was like, I don't have no time
to prepare to learn how to drive again. I've been
gone seventeen years. I didn't drive for seventeen years. And
then my wife, my family, them, not knowing, they're celebrating
the fact, thinking that it's good.

Speaker 1 (27:40):
They're talking about, oh you can drive, go ahead and drive.

Speaker 2 (27:43):
You can get in a car and I'm like, yo,
I have to I have not been outside of a
gate without shackles on my feet, and y'all talking about
getting a car and drive. So there was that, you know,
and you know a couple of other things. But man,
those that first day, those first it was hard. But

(28:05):
the second day I did my time in Virginia, we
were headed back to Georgia where we moved me and
my wife. I came home married. Shout out to my wife,
were going on six years strong, eight years altogether, got
a baby on the way. But we're moving down to
Georgia at the time. Second my second day out and
we get pulled over by the police when she's driving.

Speaker 1 (28:27):
And we're in the right.

Speaker 2 (28:30):
First I want to say that we're in the right,
we have legal tags, all that, but they couldn't see him,
blah blah blah whatever. But the level of PTSD that
was in me after being pulled over less than forty
eight hours before I was able to go check in
with my probation off all, I was like, oh my god,
even though I wasn't in the wrong, Even though that

(28:51):
he didn't the man didn't ask my name or nothing.

Speaker 1 (28:52):
He was talking to my wife. He was driving.

Speaker 2 (28:54):
But the level of trauma, anxiety, all that that I was,
it was too much, you know what I'm saying that
that was basically man, it was, it was. And might
I also say I came home three months before the
pandemic kicked off after doing seventeen years in prison.

Speaker 3 (29:14):
Yeah, I can imagine that was a that was a
big change, uh, just to get used to, let alone
getting an adjusted to being free in society.

Speaker 2 (29:24):
Well being free in society. That it would then be
turned upside down because of the pandemic. So it was
a crazy.

Speaker 3 (29:31):
Time, right, especially since we were basically locked down, so
basically be like you were. You were confined to your house,
just like you'd be confined to yourself sometimes.

Speaker 1 (29:41):
Yeah, but that weren't it that lockdown? Weren't it that were?

Speaker 2 (29:44):
I weren't locked down, y'all. You guys might have been.
If you haven't, I don't know. I don't know if
you don't, but people at them they may have felt.
But no, the thoughts that were in my mind were
I've waited seventeen years to get home, and this may
be the end of the world. Like that's a heck
of a We ought for somebody that fought for their
freedom or finally got home and then next thing, you know,

(30:04):
the probation. I was saying, you got to get a job,
but everything's shutting down, and on the news they talking
about we're going into the black winner.

Speaker 1 (30:11):
Those are the type.

Speaker 2 (30:12):
The lockdown was the easy part, and actually I think
it helped me because it lessened the amount of people
in the streets, which allowed me to kind of overtime
get acclimated back into society instead of just being thrush
out there into you know, a whole gaggle all the time.

Speaker 3 (30:31):
Right, So, what were the biggest mental and emotional hurdles
you had to overcome during your transformation? Uh?

Speaker 2 (30:40):
Well, like that best PTSD would be the number one
anxiety depression, which you know are all in the wheelhouse.
I came home, I got diagnosed as type one bipolar.
I'm somebody that I do not I'm not here to
tell anybody how to live or I'm just saying I don't,

(31:04):
you know, take medicine. But I did like real mental health.
I diet, real mental health, support support groups. I'm really
active in my recovery plan. I have mentors, I have
people to lean on but I just broke one day.

Speaker 1 (31:16):
Man. I was out here.

Speaker 2 (31:18):
My wife and I had gone through, you know, a
series of things, some personal tragedies, life was life in
and I think I hit that moment that a lot
of people talk about when they finally break. You would
have thought that would have came in prison, but it didn't.
It came after I came home. But once that did occur,

(31:39):
that's when the work could be done. And I used
to always hear that and thought it was so corny. Honestly,
that's me. Maybe y'all didn't feel that way. You didn't
feel that way, but you know, until it happened to me,
I didn't get it. But once you're broke, once you're
to a place where you don't figure out, you don't
know how you can keep going like you yourself, and
all you can do is lean on God or is

(31:59):
support or whatever things shift. Things happened, you know, And
once that happened, I sent the solar flare up. I
said I need help, and help came. And I also
advocated and got some help that I needed as well,
But overall, man, help came.

Speaker 3 (32:18):
That's good to hear habits or practices that helped you
stay grounded during your journey of change.

Speaker 2 (32:26):
Daily practices in there, I just I read a lot,
I exercised a lot, and I stayed once I started
to really understand who God was in my life, I
stayed in prayer and I stayed connected to him. Those
are the main things. I never tried to keep my
mind inside of the prison once I got to a

(32:47):
certain place in my bed. You know, I always looked
past the gates, and that's really what it was. And
while I was in prison, I always tried to do
things that other guys couldn't do, and no, not in
a negative way. I was able to convince the institution
that I was on, Saint Bride's at the time, to
allow me to create programs and facilitate different groups for

(33:09):
guys and to bring in resources or get resources to
come in for So I was on that journey, which
is a big reason or catalyst for the journey that
I'm on right now.

Speaker 3 (33:23):
So speaking of now, how did you start sharing your
story publicly and what made you decide to become a
motivational speaker man.

Speaker 2 (33:31):
So it's fun I get to talk about this September
thirteenth at a big attorney citizens banquet for the league
to say, for streets, I'm excited. One of the things
I'm gonna be talking about is my brother, Poetic Life
for law. On my social media it says Christopher Life Willers.
I was fortunate enough to meet a man that became

(33:51):
brother to me. We've known each other now over twenty
two years or something like that, and his name is
Poetic Life, And basically he was an individual that was
deeply grounded his beliefs, and he used to challenge me
to read books and all these things, you know, and really.

Speaker 1 (34:14):
Understand the value of me, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (34:18):
And I get to speak about him, I get to
talk about his impact, and also I get to talk
about the journey of what happens with individuals in prison
and the way that we're able to survive in there.
And I get to talk about or dispelled to certain
you know what I'm saying, rumors, et cetera. And anytime
I got the opportunity, I do so. But just looking

(34:39):
forward to that, I think about individuals like that. They
were able to help me push through and were positive
in my life and just other things.

Speaker 3 (34:49):
Somebody just asked in the comments, were you in prison
reading the Bible.

Speaker 2 (34:54):
Yeah, towards towards the second half of my BID, I
was definitely in prison reading the Bible. And I most
definitely say, you know, I'm big on not telling people
what to believe.

Speaker 1 (35:03):
I'm just telling people what I do.

Speaker 2 (35:05):
That's one of the only ways that I've been able
to get by present day at times, let alone back then.

Speaker 1 (35:11):
On January twenty third of this year, my whole home
burned down.

Speaker 2 (35:14):
Everything that I fought to get physically we lost in
a fire, you know, and be honest with you got
it all back plus. And I say that because out
the fire.

Speaker 1 (35:29):
About to be a father. You know, out the fire,
we got our home, restore whatever it is.

Speaker 2 (35:34):
But I know it's God, and I know the importance
for me, for me of staying in the word.

Speaker 3 (35:42):
Well, congratulations, I'm becoming a father. I'm a father as
of two years now. And it's definitely the biggest change
in the biggest blessing in my life.

Speaker 1 (35:50):
Amazing, Thank you man for those words. I appreciated. Congratulations
to you.

Speaker 3 (35:54):
Man, Thank you, Thank you. So what's your overall message
when you speak to audiences these days?

Speaker 2 (36:01):
My overall message is stay free. Stay free is it's
a call of action. Stay free. It doesn't just mean
stay free of prison. It's to stay free of the grave,
not just the physical grave, but the mental one as well.
You know, fight for that life that you deserve and

(36:22):
experience the things in this life that you should. You know,
and know that whatever ceiling, mental prison, whatever, that you
can break past that. But that's really it. Man, keep
God first and stay free. You know, don't allow yourself
to be boxed in by stereotypes, conditions, et cetera. That's
why a lot of us end up in prison. That's

(36:44):
why a lot of us end up in the grave
because a lot of us we're choosing to be in bondage.
We're choosing to get in the cuffs, we're choosing to
get in the grave, We're choosing to get into prison,
and we should be choosing to stay free.

Speaker 3 (36:57):
Is that same message tailored towards like at risk youth
or is your message universal?

Speaker 2 (37:02):
That message is a universal message to the world. And
when we talked about the Bible, you know, the Bible
speaks specifically about freedom, and freedom is a gift that
can be guaranteed all so when I say free, that's
the next level that's it. I want people to know
the God that I know. But yo, step one, it's

(37:24):
anybody can be free. And if you know that that
that's what we need. That's the We've done our part
there because that'll take route. But what does freedom mean
to you? And fight for them?

Speaker 3 (37:40):
That's a good message.

Speaker 1 (37:42):
Thank you man.

Speaker 3 (37:43):
So what's the most memorable response you've received from somebody
who's heard you speak?

Speaker 1 (37:49):
Memorable response? Recently? Just recently last week, I was able
to speak at the.

Speaker 2 (37:55):
Never Scared twenty twenty five conference in Detroit, Michigan. We'll
just write out side Detroit with Pastor J Moss and
his church and I was able to speak or hear
something at their loved Ones when it got mental health support.

Speaker 1 (38:12):
Because of posts that I've done, I.

Speaker 2 (38:16):
Had the opportunity to hear people say that because of
the work that I'm doing, they want to do the work.
And you know all that, And first I just want
to say again, it's all God.

Speaker 1 (38:27):
He deserves all the credit and glory.

Speaker 2 (38:29):
But you know, to know that I can be using
a way that people can get help or be inspired
to get help. To know that I can be using
a way by God to motivate others or inspire others
to want to help others. That's the biggest blessing for me.
Like that, that really hit me. So that was memorable.

(38:51):
And I've had so many memorable moments. I run into
people now and I'm fortunate enough. I'm in the airport,
I'm in the grocery store whatever it is, and not
speaking in the moment, but people stopping me asking me
can we get a picture? Man, something you said it
changed me. Or it could be the message that I
get on Instagram or somewhere and said, yo, I didn't

(39:11):
get in the car that night.

Speaker 1 (39:13):
You know, I stopped gang bang whatever it was. So, man, there's.

Speaker 2 (39:17):
Countless moments, and I really am grateful because and like
I said, I'm not even supposed to be here, you know,
considered what's going on?

Speaker 3 (39:26):
Right? So do you believe everyone and this includes like
lifers and people on death row, has the capacity for
transformation no matter their path?

Speaker 2 (39:36):
Do? I believe everybody has the capacity for transformation, no
matter their path?

Speaker 1 (39:41):
According to the Bible.

Speaker 2 (39:43):
I keep going back to the Bible because my understanding
could never surpass that a guy. According to the Bible,
everybody has the ability to ask for salvation, change, et cetera.
So transformation transformation to me means just that. But on
just terms of being, you know, humans or whatever. I
will say this, the individual has to want to I

(40:05):
will also say that some people are prison abolitionists. I'm
not because I do know monsters exist, because I've seen some,
you know, I've looked some of them in the eye.

Speaker 1 (40:17):
So at the end of the.

Speaker 2 (40:18):
Day, what I'll say to you is, I think everybody can,
but everybody doesn't want to transform. Some people are just
fine operating in the dark and you know, being with
the chaos.

Speaker 3 (40:33):
Right, So what advice would you give to people who
feel like they're trapped by their past mistakes or feel
like they're trapped in the present moment of like gangbanging
or something that they feel like they can't get out of.

Speaker 2 (40:44):
Man, I tell you that I'm somebody got sentenced to
one hundred and forty four years in prison. I did seventeen,
and since I've been home for five and a half years,
I've opened up a school year, I've started a successful
nonprofits accession blah.

Speaker 1 (41:00):
Blah blah blah. You can google my name or all that.
But what I'm really saying to you is.

Speaker 2 (41:04):
If I can do that, y'all can too, as long
as there's time, because time is the most valuable thing
you ever have. And that's why it's imperative to stay
out of prison or the grave, because once you're in there,
you're no longer in control of those things could be
gone all together. But as long as there's time, there's
opportunity to change. But you gotta start praying, you gotta
start strategizing, and you got to start advocating for yourself

(41:26):
or getting yourself connected to people or situations that could
lead you to a better life. Even in prison, there
was positive people in an environment like my brother Jefferson
Li aka Poetic Life that I was able to connect to,
or Freddie Williams.

Speaker 1 (41:39):
There was people in there fighting for their freedom.

Speaker 2 (41:42):
Get around those people that don't want to be living
in a suffering place that you want to escape from,
and together you'll find a way out. And if you're alone,
then just start praying and focus on strategy and pray
for strategy so you can get out that situation. But
there's no situation that you can't necess necessarily get out
of because when you ask, you know, I'm somebody that

(42:04):
left the lifestyle of being a gang member in prison?

Speaker 1 (42:08):
Does that happen all the time? No? Is that an
easy thing?

Speaker 2 (42:12):
No?

Speaker 1 (42:12):
But it was possible and it happened.

Speaker 2 (42:14):
Everybody's situation's different, But you got to first have the
true desire to one hundred percent change, And that's what
I say.

Speaker 3 (42:23):
So, how do you think weir as a society can
better support people who are trying to re enter society
or who are re entering society after being in prison
for so long.

Speaker 2 (42:33):
Man, push past stereotypes, you know, push past stereotypes. Yes,
we understand the individuals are coming home from prison. We
understand that they did what they did in their past.
But if you want them to be successful in the present,
then we have to believe that they can be successful
going forward into their future. So I can't continue to

(42:54):
interact with individuals based off their past. When somebody comes
home from prison, they've done their time, they've done their sentence,
they've done just that. Give them a chance depending upon
the situation. No, I'm probably not gonna give a bank
rob the job of the bank, but I might because
the guy that does the security systems and creates the
security systems for seven to eleven was once somebody that

(43:15):
continuously and consistently robbed them and had a million grand
larcenies or whatever whatever, never got caught. So invite individuals
and give them an opportunity. Most of the time, when
you give an individual that's been incarcerated actual opportunity, that matters.

Speaker 1 (43:32):
And I'm not talking or knocking the nine dollars burger
king job.

Speaker 2 (43:36):
But when you give a man that's coming home from
prison an opportunity to make nineteen dollars out the gate
or something, or you give him some knowledge or something, yo,
they cherish that. The other thing is I'd say as
a society we need more mental health support in the
community as a whole, proactively for our young people. If

(43:57):
we can identify what types of men so illness our
young people are dealing with in the hood, then guess
what we can proactively start dealing with it as a
community and keep them from going to prison.

Speaker 1 (44:11):
And we want to have real mental health.

Speaker 2 (44:13):
Support, we should as a society for those individuals coming
home from incarceration. Because no matter what, and this is
anybody that may be watching this, even if you don't
agree with the people that are like you know, they
don't deserve second chances. The majority of people that are
in prison are coming home, and some of them are
coming home to community near you, or they're going to

(44:34):
be working at the grocery store at night when you
walk in the parking lot, et cetera. So you probably
want them to have rehabilitative services for if not the
sake of them, well at least for you and the
nice communities that you live in that probably are gated.
But guess what, if we don't get them support, they'll
probably figure out how to get inside those two.

Speaker 3 (44:56):
So, speaking of rehabilitative services other than metal health treatment
of course in prison, what changes would you like to
see in the prison system to make it more rehabilitative
rather than just punitive.

Speaker 2 (45:07):
I would like to see an actual rehabilitative environment. There's
exceptions to the rules. There's a prison here, a prison
there that's abnormal and outside, you know, but the majority
of prisons are just warehouses. One of the biggest lies
that was ever told to society is that prisons are
rehabilitating people.

Speaker 1 (45:26):
They're not.

Speaker 2 (45:27):
There's not one man that's coming home rehabilitated from prison
that didn't have to decide individually and independently that they
wanted to be rehabilitated. I've yet to see a program
in ninety nine percent of the prisons. Because I'm one
of the individuals it gets to travel and go into
prisons and institutions nationwide. I've yet to see an actual,

(45:51):
tangible program that assists an individual when it comes to rehabilitation.
Most of it is surface leveled stuff to appease the
government or the taxpayers, and it's all a joke. They
wait till the last second to start attempting to remix.
Months after doing an eighteen year sentence, and you're told

(46:12):
that it's time for you to learn how to be
normal again. Okay, that does not happen. That individual has
gone through seventeen months or seventeen years of direct trauma, warfare, pain,
and everything else. So one of the things that should
happen is actual rehabilitation and input from those who were
formally incarcerated actually start the rehabilitative process when the individual

(46:38):
gets locked up at the gate. Rehabilitation should start on immediately,
and prison shouldn't be just warehouses. They should be program
filled based. There should be different things implemented in the
environment so they can feel human versus monster life, because
many people go to prison humans, but they return monsters.

Speaker 3 (47:00):
Yeah, I agree with you one hundred percent. I talked
to a serial unliver right in prison, and he says,
they lock us up twenty three hours a day. They
give us ground, stacked lunches. They don't want us to
be monsters. Know what do you expect when they lock
us up twenty three hours a day? Like we're supposed
to just be nice and play along with staff and
other inmates. And I agree with him one hundred percent.

Speaker 2 (47:19):
And it's the biggest hypocritical statement that's ever been made.
I see it every day because I'm a content creator.
That's what you guys deserve. That's what they're not thinking
that thought through. You do not want these guys getting
treated like monsters day in and day out in there
and then released out the gate.

Speaker 1 (47:38):
You don't want that.

Speaker 2 (47:40):
I challenge any of you to get up here and
have a debate with me on that one, and you, well,
I'm gonna defend my home. Why do you want to
get to that point? Why just use common sense America.
You don't want them treated as monsters. You want them
treated as men.

Speaker 3 (47:55):
And the sad thing is not everybody in prison is
guilty of and we know that. We know, wrong full
of convictions happen all the time. People get released from
death row, from life in prison all the time, people
get millions of dollars almost monthly, you know, because of that,
and it's sad people have that stigma that everybody in
prison is guilty. Everybody in prison is bad.

Speaker 2 (48:13):
Most definitely, most definitely, man, I honestly, and not just
the innocent aspect, the over sentencing aspect. You know, yeah,
there's definitely some individuals that are innocent, but man, there's
so many individuals in there that have lost decades if
not more, and they could have been home in three years,
but because the judge didn't like a certain colorsk in

(48:36):
X Y Z A Y, or woke up on the
wrong side of the bed or whatever, or that person
committed a crime similar to one that was committed against
their family. Instead of getting three years, they get thirty.
That is our justice system.

Speaker 3 (48:50):
Right And speaking of wrongful convictions, I was at a
I didn't attend it, but I was at a wrongful
conviction conference in Seattle, know, not that long ago. I
didn't attend it, but I met a few people I
met by the name of Richard Phillips. He did forty
six years and some change wrongfully convicted, and you know
what he was doing, you know what he was plotting
to do when he got out. He wanted to underlive
the man who was responsible for the crime that put

(49:11):
him in prison, which I think is is really sad
that he lost almost more than half of his life
and he wanted to make things right by getting the
guy that put him in there, which I think, yeah.

Speaker 1 (49:24):
Man, mental health.

Speaker 2 (49:25):
I can only imagine sitting in there for forty six years,
every second, every time that clocked it, and you knew
that you weren't the one that did it, and you
lost your life.

Speaker 1 (49:37):
I don't know about everybody else. Hold there's no reset.
This is it. You get one go, you know, And
I couldn't imagine it.

Speaker 2 (49:44):
And I've met individuals like that that.

Speaker 1 (49:48):
Did a substantial amount of time.

Speaker 2 (49:49):
And you know, at the end of the day, the
state gives him some money and tells him, you know,
live a life's life, and there's sixty, there's seventy. You know,
it's overweight. All it's unfortunate, it's very sad, but it happens.

Speaker 3 (50:05):
Happens, right, Yeah, too often? Not that Yeah, So in
your opinion, what are the root causes of crimes and
how do you think we as a community can address it.

Speaker 2 (50:20):
Root causes of crime are mental illness and addiction. I
and you know, not to sound like a broken record,
but just more mental health support, more addiction services or
addiction support in the areas that are impoverished by crime

(50:41):
are the areas that get the least amount of resources.
When you look at how government funding, state funding is dispersed,
it's dispersed into the wealthier communities and the poorer communities,
which are typically black and Hispanic, et cetera. And don't
get me wrong, you got trailer parks with white people
too are left out. The dry rural areas in West Virginia.

(51:04):
So it's not just that, but no support. These are
breeding grounds for prisoners. You know, the prison industrial complex
is a very real thing. And in order for me
if I'm if I'm an investor into especially in private prisons,
I need people that's gonna be locked up so I
can get money. You know, these big contracts that are

(51:28):
that are being sold and these prisoners that are doing
I used to do labor for major contracts. They pay
me twenty seven cents an hour. I listened to people
say how they made millions off this contract and we
were in there working for pennies, legalized sweatshop.

Speaker 1 (51:42):
It gets deep, you know. And I don't want to
go off on a tangent, but they're.

Speaker 2 (51:46):
They're not They're on purpose not putting support there, so
they can just say, oh, there'll go ten more on
the way to prison, you know, and it goes on
and on our education system blah blah blah.

Speaker 3 (52:00):
Right, right, yeah, I think there's so many different different
things we can do to help people not get there,
but unfortunately they don't care until it's too late, you.

Speaker 2 (52:10):
Know, yeah, until it impacts them or their family or you.

Speaker 3 (52:14):
Know, right exactly. So, if you can speak to your
younger self, say a day before all this happened, what
would you say to make sure you didn't go out
that night?

Speaker 1 (52:24):
Oh, man, don't go.

Speaker 2 (52:26):
Don't be a leader, not a follow The thing is,
I'm not bitter about seventeen years in prison. It's funny
I get asked that every now and then. People are like,
how can you really be at peace?

Speaker 1 (52:39):
Well?

Speaker 2 (52:40):
What I say is, my life is extremely blessed. I
mean that it's almost like I got picked up and
dropped off right where I was supposed to be and
then accelerated. What part of that is the line of
work that I do. What I'm passionate about is being
a leader activist all that I wouldn't have became a

(53:01):
leader if I didn't make the mistake of being a
follower in the wrong moment the way that I did.
That cost me all that time. So you know, I
would have told myself, don't go. But at the same time,
who's to say life would be the way that it
is now?

Speaker 1 (53:19):
You know, I got a blessed life.

Speaker 2 (53:21):
Who's to say I'd be able to help thousands, millions,
you know, And I say this in the most humble way,
because this is God.

Speaker 1 (53:30):
I'm just a vessel.

Speaker 2 (53:31):
But you know, who's to say, you know, if I
didn't go, I wouldn't be able to just experience the
life that I'm able to live now. Not justifying it,
but you know, just the thought that every now and
then does come about.

Speaker 3 (53:46):
Right. So what do you hope people mostly remember about
your story?

Speaker 2 (53:54):
I think, no matter what, I just want people to
remember that I fought through true you know, anytime.

Speaker 1 (54:03):
And it's funny.

Speaker 2 (54:04):
My story has been in front of people now through
social media. I've shared for some years now and they've
seen me go through some crazy come on from prison,
tragedy with the family house fire, tornado, and every single time,
I thank God and he gave me enough strength to

(54:25):
fight through. And that's all I want. I really take
pride in. If you're tired, look at me. I'm tired too,
but we're gonna fight through. And that's really it, man.
I just want people to see a fighter man.

Speaker 3 (54:43):
So to round this out, my last question I have
for you is how can people get involved in helping
others like you turn their lives around.

Speaker 2 (54:51):
Yeah, I would say to help system impacted people turn
their life around. Advocate for them. If there's information that
you know that they can apply to their life to
make it better, if there's resources you can connect them to,
if there's an opportunity of employment, any of these things. Man,

(55:11):
it's just that it's getting getting into other rooms that
maybe they've never been in before.

Speaker 1 (55:17):
I'm so grateful for the.

Speaker 2 (55:18):
People in my life that have been to prison, and
I'm so grateful for the people in my life that
have never been to prison because all in all through
you know, but those are just some of the things.

Speaker 3 (55:31):
All right, Well, I appreciate you taking the time today
to talk to me, and I'm so happy that you're
using your platform for good and not trying to glamorize
prison or gang life or anything like that. I really
appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (55:40):
And yeah, I'm just educating and never glorifying, but i
really want people to know what prison is and the
impact it has on the individual or families. And I'm
also a victim's advocate, so if anybody sees my content,
definitely not disregarding victims. Man Am
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