June 16, 2025 • 51 mins
Prentiss Williams is an inmate currently incarcerated at the Trumbull Correctional Institution in Leavittsburg, Ohio. Born on December 30, 1978, he has been serving a lengthy sentence since his admission on December 22, 2003. His offenses include multiple counts of aggravated murder, attempted aggravated murder, felonious assault, escape, and weapon under disability, resulting in a sentence of 151 years in prison.
In 2003, Williams was charged with the 1994 murder of Shelley Johnson, a 29-year-old woman found dead in central Toledo. Prosecutors allege that Williams killed Johnson to prevent her from revealing his involvement in another murder. He was later convicted of this crime in juvenile court .
The Trumbull Correctional Institution, where Williams is held, is a medium-security facility operated by the Ohio Department of Rehabilitation and Correction. Opened in 1992, it houses approximately 1,529 male inmates across various security levels.
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In 2003, Williams was charged with the 1994 murder of Shelley Johnson, a 29-year-old woman found dead in central Toledo. Prosecutors allege that Williams killed Johnson to prevent her from revealing his involvement in another murder. He was later convicted of this crime in juvenile court .
The Trumbull Correctional Institution, where Williams is held, is a medium-security facility operated by the Ohio Department of Rehabilitation and Correction. Opened in 1992, it houses approximately 1,529 male inmates across various security levels.
https://linktr.ee/Unforbiddentruth
Join us every Tuesday and Thursday as we stream on either tik tok and/or youtube. Tik Tok Handle: @unforbiddentruthpodcast
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/unforbidden-truth--4724561/support.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
So for the record, my name is Prentcess Williams. I
was born and raised intoed Ohio forty six years of age,
and I'm currently twenty three years in on one hundred
and fifty one years since. My incarceration includes four murders,
two of which were aggravated and once upon the time
capital cases, you know, and two of those happened when
(00:40):
I was fifteen and two when I was age twenty three.
In terms of illustrating my childhood leading up to the
committing those acts, man, you know, I was born to
a lot of dysfunction. My mom's was across the two
who had part ways when you when I was three
weeks so my father he was an epidemic, no show,
(01:04):
you know. So I was exposed to a lot of dysfunctioning,
a lot of ignorance, a lot of violence, and things
of that nature. One of the most repeated things that
I was exposed to was the ignorance about what my
options were like, about my value and work right. I
was told as a kid that I was either gonna
(01:26):
die or see prison by the time I was eighteen
and twenty one, you know, as well as being told
things about how the world don't give a fuck about
me on the strength that I'm black, and you know,
things of that nature. These were the things that as
the foundation served to you know, paint my you know,
painting with my expectations for the world, my view in
the world, my disposition for the world, if you will.
(01:47):
So by the time when I was fifteen, I committed
my first act, my first murder is to be simple
to playing. I was hungry, you know. I had been
in foster care since I was you know, pretty much
born man and you know, children Services of tole Ohio
had custody of me. And by the time I was
fourteen twelves, between twelve and fourteen, I started running away
(02:10):
on a long periods of time for my first arms.
A lot of people were associated with me, haven't been bad.
But truth of the matter is I was searching, you know,
I was trying to find my identity, man. I was
trying to find my fit man, and got caught up
in the street. If the gang is the nation. But
like I said that, my first you know murder was committed.
(02:31):
I was hungry, I was homeless, and I was desperate,
and I had a few years of living out there
the streets certain pope and living between the drugug houses
and things.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Of that nature. Man.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
And you know that street culture is one where we
move fast. You know, you went into a lot of
people quick, and you know a lot of you know,
people you know want to lose. Morely speaking, things of
that nature. Man, sometimes you don't resort to will and uh,
that's what happened with me. And then you know, my
second place I was on the round for that first
murder was wash who was a gentleman named Reprehendis you
(03:04):
know who I ended up killing, Uh an attempted robbery
situation whatever that you know, took his life on. But
then while I was on on the round for that one,
I caught another murder. I had ended up killing a
young lady by the name is Shelley, whom I have
been living with for a period of time and it
was in an offer long relationship with even though she
(03:25):
was older than who he had came out that there
was she was potentially uh telling them, you know, calling
the crimest. She turned me in on the murder that
was already on the round for and you know, so
that result isn't me you know, ultimately killing her. If
I was to have to illustrate my reason, and I
would just say that, you know, I was caught up
(03:45):
in the lifestyle. Man. I believed in it, you know, uh,
and so you know I was. I believed in some
of the codes and the standards that was you know,
encouraged for us to believe. You know, I do, a
lot of people don't believe in him. You know, you
got something once in a while. I'm mener taking shis now.
I ain't had nothing else so you know. But anyway,
so I had I caught those cases right, but I
(04:07):
didn't end up going to prison for until I was
twenty cast for more murderers like twenty three to murder
for higher incidents that resulted in me facing the death.
But I ended up not going the crowd for it
to complete to one hundred and fifty one years. But
(04:28):
in terms of uh finishtrating you know, some of the
corners and then to me commit that crime my arm.
I was home probably thirty days after doing the sixth
to fifteen year print in stint, in which I did
h pretty much for six years nine months I was.
I went to prison as a kid. I went in
at sixteen, I came out at twenty three. When I
(04:52):
went in, I was homeless. So when I came out,
I was homeless, right, and I didn't really have much
or anything for anyone to fall back on. So I
fell back into you know, my old lifestyle. I didn't
have a halfway house, which any to me as an option.
I didn't have any you know, a state you know,
or assistance presina to me as an option, none of that.
(05:13):
So you know, I went back to the streets with
I knew best man, you know, and uh it aught
to me, uh resulted in me killing two more people
into uh you know, moneyful, higher incidute, you know. So see,
so now I'm in a long story, because the longest
the swift version of a long story is now I'm
automate doing one hundred and fifty more years. Like I say,
(05:34):
I'm twenty three years in on it. And you know,
my outlook on it is that, uh it was for
me to go through it so that I can use
the lessons from my experiences to help others. And you
know that's my genuine commitment to help those who uh
you know, I'm who like myself, man who was taught
at lifestyle you know, young and you know, believe that
(05:55):
that was their highest option. Well, and they are a
heartsh like myself. I always believed that it was something
more for me. I just didn't know how to find
that more. And while a lot of people don't know
how to identify it. A lot of those things that
I'm jealous for, I condemn for what's having done out
on the streets. Man, it was part of that process
of my search, you know, just you know, it just
(06:15):
wasn't wasn't treating.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
This is Sewyn Jones. He's the uncle to George Floyd.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
He's up here with us.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
You can hear me.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
Yeah, Man, I hear you. What's that brother?
Speaker 1 (06:29):
H How are you doing? Man?
Speaker 4 (06:31):
Man, I'm doing, Man, I'm doing. I am uh trying
to move some some changes forward, man, so people can
have a better opportunity to enjoy life, my brother, so
they don't have to be putting bad situations from genigrational curses,
my brother, most.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
Definitely, Man, that's one of my commitments. Man. So I
definitely a solution for that work. Uh.
Speaker 4 (06:56):
And my question was, do you have any moors on
the things that you had to do a lot of
people don't feel like they have options because of the
systemic way that a lot of black people were raised
in the ghetto or just around particular situations. And my
(07:18):
heart breaks when I hear a young man that tells
me that it started off that way and when you
were sixteen years old and by the time you were
twenty three, you were put in an unwinnable situation.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Because of the decisions that you made. Man.
Speaker 4 (07:38):
So you know, yeah, it just blows me away, man,
that we as people let kids slip through the cracks
to become adults that have been incarcerated throughout their whole life.
So man, you keep your head up, you keep your
(08:02):
aware of that, man, and you keep educating.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I appreciate it, Man, I appreciate it.
You know, it's gonna take people who come from it
to really contribute to the to the remedy. Man. You
know what I'm outside sources and institutions and the people
who you know, it will seem like will be able
to u you know, become engaged and you know, help
and things of that nature, and it really can't. They
(08:26):
can just throw solutions at it, but it takes people
like myself who come from it, man. So one of
my commitments man, one of my determinations. One of the
things that's got me up with sure early the days
and I got up over the last twenty three years.
The cool ain't having supermax is knowing that somebody else
gonna get something from this, you know, more than what
I heard. I'm gonna help you know what I mean?
(08:46):
So yeah, yeah, I appreciate that.
Speaker 4 (08:52):
Tell me your straight of mind, knowing that you will
never ever be free again?
Speaker 2 (09:00):
How do you maneuver doing your day and knowing that
you that you're home? How does that affect one one's
men on capacity?
Speaker 1 (09:16):
So probably about two hours ago I wanted I was.
I was caught into the day like damn should I
should I have by somebody? Right? I was dealing with
some frustrations, you know, to be honest with whatever, right,
And the first thing that come to your mind is, yeah,
I got all this time. I ain't got nothing to lose, YadA, YadA, YadA. Right,
(09:37):
And you gotta check that every day, right, every day,
many times a day. And so how I check it? Man?
What what I do is I just take responsibility for
what I did. One part of it is, like I said,
I was being told as a kid that I was
gonna see prison or die by the time I was
twenty one. So in the ages that I said there,
(10:00):
imagine it myself playing basketball or studying, you know, for
exams or whatever I was imagining as a kid with
my life is gonna look out either if it was
like either in prison or on the streets. So when
I came to prison, it was like a self fulfilled profitency.
So even though that's a you know, unfortunate way of
putting it, it's the truth in that it helped me
(10:22):
prepare it for dinners, you know, setting this shit right.
But at the same time, the humanitarian to decide of
my humanity is a woke now because out there it
was non It's a woke and it's conscious. So it
hurt having to reconcile myself to that fact. But at
the same time, I know that if I'm gonna if
I'm gonna render the effects that I tend to, it's
(10:43):
multiple things I gotta be able to do. I gotta
not just be able to talk to people, but I
gotta lead with my example. I take the responsibility for
my actions by how I get up every day and
how I go about my day. Because it's a lot
of individuals in here who some of them locked up
for some of them not even knocked up for it,
and they gonna go back out here, but they get
a glimpse of when it looked like to really truly
(11:05):
make their transformation, would also still be in this situation
and hold it up. You know what I mean? As
we say, you know, so you know it's still some
dignity associated with it.
Speaker 4 (11:15):
That's a hell of a statement, my brother, that's a
hell of a statement. Man, Man, I am been doing yourself.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
Man, I know that that wisdom will be come from
some degree of some degree of either experience or you know,
in depth observation.
Speaker 4 (11:33):
So I brother, I've I've seen, I've seen all the roads.
I've seen all the roads. I always make a statement,
and I say that everybody waits up with two things
every day. Uh that's a chance and a choice and
a chance. And we should put more emphasis on the
(11:55):
choices that we make so we can have better chances.
But uh, one one thing that uh remaining Uh.
Speaker 3 (12:07):
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, right back, if
you can.
Speaker 5 (12:11):
Thank you for using gto Hey, quick question, what was
the word you used to describe your father?
Speaker 1 (12:18):
Oh? Uh, epidemic no show. Yeah, no show.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
Okay, Okay, what do you say, epidemic no show?
Speaker 2 (12:28):
Epidemic no show.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
Okay, I've been saying that for a minute.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
Do you have any contact with your family?
Speaker 1 (12:37):
No? No. When I was coming up, man, we didn't. Uh,
like I said, my mom's lifting when I'm a screaming show.
I stayed with my grandmother for off and on the
first eight years of my life. But at the same time,
she was, uh, she was she was, you know, unstable,
so she couldn't keep cussing on me. So I never
really had the chance to spond. Pretty much came up.
Speaker 4 (13:04):
The h Wow, you never really had a chance If
that's what is that what I'm hearing from the people
from the people around you? You never you never had anybody.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
Right, definitely didn't have people you know in terms of
yeah you have definitely dint have that. Uh, I have an.
Speaker 4 (13:28):
Experience when you're doing bad, you have a lot of
people that influenced you to do bad.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
But that's the key.
Speaker 4 (13:36):
Uh, you don't have a lot of people that are
trying to that will change that mindset because Uh, eagles
don't fly with crows and pigeons because they ship all
over everything.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
And that's that systemic problem that we deal with with
people with people further of a feather flock together.
Speaker 4 (13:54):
And if you hang around ship down at poo poo,
that's what you're gonna get in a mental capacity to
dealing with poopo. I'm not making good, good choice of
the good decisions.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
Man. Wow, do you ever feel like the way they do?
Speaker 4 (14:11):
You ever feel like life is? Do you ever feel
like your life was put here to be lost with
all the things you had to go through as a kid.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
No, I actually feel the opposite. I actually I am
very much convinced that I went through and I did
everything I did for a specific reason, for a holy,
spiritual reason and purpose. I know it sounds cliche, you know,
you see a lot of guys come to prison and they,
you know, talk about how they find revision and things.
(14:46):
I genuinely believe that because you know, like, for example,
just me being able to talk to you and answer
your question right now, psychologically speaking, I'm not supposed to
be able to do this. We go by what the
people that is writing everything say. Whatever. You know, I
went straight to Superman isolation, get a decade, and that
(15:06):
I never had a formal education, and we get to
see I'm still here able to you know, articulate, you
know my reality take you no, yeah, inclusion right, you know.
And that's that's that's something I tribute to God's purpose
and plan because a lot of the things that I understand,
a lot of the things that I remember going through,
they don't affect me the way that I can hear
(15:29):
other people talking about how they went on and just
defined their lives, you know what I mean. So and
that strength only can come from God. Man, I believe that,
you know, I'm on the path or like I said before,
utilizing the lessons from my experiences to help those because
it's a lot of people we watch the news every day,
there's people still living that like this, you know, every
(15:49):
sturban community, every city, you know what I mean. And
so it's lives like mine that can communicate I've been
doing it for years that you know, reached those living
like that, and you'll kind of help them find their
way back then. And that's only something God.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
I get it.
Speaker 6 (16:08):
Man, you keep your head up and you keep you
keep spreading the good message, and you show those young
brothers that have gotten those three to five to ten
years what they need to get.
Speaker 4 (16:25):
Back out and accomplish and be well rounded human beings
and individuals, because.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
All it takes.
Speaker 4 (16:33):
Like I said, Ah, you wake up every day with
a chance and the choice, and if you can instill
in their brains, hey, you don't want to be in
a situation that I'm in that I'll die in here
because you have a chance. Every day is a beautiful
thing for people to get opportunity to wake up, because
how many people will go to sleep tonight and get
(16:56):
ready for bed and not have that opportunity to be
able to spread that wisdom or to make an impact
in anybody's life. So you keep impacting these young fellows, man,
because unfortunately, you are in a situation that.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
Most people shouldn't be in or never should have.
Speaker 4 (17:23):
The opportunity to be able to experience all the things
that you've got experience and have experience. But as you said,
from that spiritual point of view, you lock in with
these young kids, man, and you be a hero to
those young kids, and you you know, and you put
it in their heads.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
This isn't what life is supposed to be. I've lost mind.
Speaker 4 (17:50):
I'm making bad choices and bad decisions because I didn't
know any better. But I'm here to give you that
strength to let you know that this isn't what you want,
this isn't what you need.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
Sure, so you be that guy man.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
Oh I appreciate it. Man, I'm min.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
Yep, you be that guy.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
Man.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
You just be that guy, brother, because.
Speaker 4 (18:20):
Life for precious man, no matter what were wind, how
as long as you can wake up and you can
and make an impact and affect somebody's life, that's my focus.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
Man. Definitely definitely come with some press. It definitely come
with having to endorse some blues man. But uh yeah,
I've been staying of course.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
So wow brother, wi wah wil uh.
Speaker 4 (18:49):
Just stay strong, man, stay strong, stay strong, stay strong.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
What how were you.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
The first time? How?
Speaker 4 (19:00):
Oh were you the first time that you unlive somebody?
Speaker 1 (19:04):
Oh? Fifteen?
Speaker 2 (19:06):
You were fifteen years.
Speaker 3 (19:08):
Old the first two times? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (19:15):
Wow, what would your situation? What was your scenario.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
The first one? Man? Like I was saying, I he
just all the way honest, man. I was longer. I
had a few different dope houses. I had freak with it,
and I have went around to the dope houses man
to see if I could acquire a couple of dollars,
you know, running across somebody that I was familiar with
and I didn't and and one of them, it was
(19:41):
man by the name of Robert hendricks Man, who was
in there. He was actually buying some crack, but he
was said to have a substantial amount of money on him.
You know, I never robbed anybody before or after this.
I never really believed that stealing anything from anybody or whatever, right,
but I was literally so lombleie man, that should I
(20:03):
went in there. Man, I went to Robbie and he's
still in his ground, you know, and uh, I want
to be ended up shooting the shit man. But yeah, yeah,
that was the first space.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (20:14):
And now how many how many people are you incarcerated for?
Speaker 2 (20:18):
Uh uh for this act?
Speaker 1 (20:21):
Yeah? Uh yeah? I had how many? Four?
Speaker 2 (20:24):
Four people?
Speaker 1 (20:26):
Yeah? Wow? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (20:31):
And the first two were that fifteen.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
Yeah yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
And what about the last two Faber twenty three?
Speaker 1 (20:40):
Like I said, I had just got released from prison, man,
and they were a murder for higher incident, where one
of them was a murder for higher incident and the
other one was uh who would have been my co
defendant on that case.
Speaker 5 (20:54):
So that was the code defendant the fourth thington Yeah four?
Was that just to make sure they want to testify
if they're arrested.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, we had. I had did a shooting
earlier that day and there was somebody who survived. They
didn't know me, but they knew him, and they got
said of the name he had, Uh, he had he
had word that got to me that he was communicating
with the h the authorities, you know, letting them know
(21:25):
that he didn't know it, but that he was with
the person who did it. And I got went it
at once. We ended up killing me before before they
can catch.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
It as well.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
No no, no long eve. We call him as actually
been at any game.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
How much money did you get for that job?
Speaker 1 (21:44):
Okah shit, obviously not enough, but if to be honest, man.
Speaker 7 (21:47):
About seven grand Wow, Sharon Grant contributed to your life calturation.
Uh wow, my brother.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
It's something that it's just something when you put it
like that, Yeah, definitely. But when you when you when
you when you back against the wall, man, you uh,
you ain't got no where to lay your head for
the night, or you know, you gotta figure it, you
know what I mean. It's it seemed like at the time,
and especially like I said, I go back to your
options thing, especially when you think that you were tossing
(22:22):
your highest option. You know, it seemed like you know,
it's worth it or that you know, it seemed logical
at the time. Man, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
So did you were you were you addicted them crack?
Speaker 1 (22:34):
No, No, I didn't have any drugs uh drug issues.
I just I just you know then that you know
I came you know, it just came up. How I
came up, you know, I mean, I just uh never
really found that the ground under my foot so to speak,
you know, uh, like I say, from going through the
foster home thing and running away from the foster homes
and shit matter. And so by the time my was
(22:58):
fourteen fifteen and things that nature froster parents were, Uh
that's eager to take in. You know, a young male
who you know, had the reputation that he has has,
you know, the history that he has with so many
difficult songs and you know, group homes and juvenile facilities
(23:19):
or whatever. Right, So it was not man, you know,
wearing only man from you know, my living situations to know,
like I said, not having nobody any things with that nature.
But I could say edment. You know, even smoking weeds,
A lot of people don't associated.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
And you never did any hard drugs.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
When I was fighting the capitol, when I was County jail,
fighting for my life, fighting the capital cases. Yeah, I
did a few different drug did a cocaine, a couple
of pang pills while I was in there, you know, fighting. Uh.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
But when you were, when you were free and you
had the choice, is the man, you never got it.
You were never addicted the drugs.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
No, no, no.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
That's.
Speaker 4 (24:10):
That is, David, Because most people that find themselves and
these precarious situations are addicted to something.
Speaker 3 (24:22):
I believe.
Speaker 5 (24:22):
I read an article right about a weapon that was
smuggled into the jail, right you talking about that, and
how like how that even came about?
Speaker 1 (24:32):
Okay, So, like I said, I was too murder for
cases became capital cases. And while I was fighting those,
when I was going to trial for those, my wife
and my oldest brother had become involved in a sexual relationship.
Now at the time my murder for iris before my
(24:54):
wife's family. You know, by this time, you know, I
told you how to committed some murders. I was fifteen
and so by this time, I'm twenty three, twenty four,
so you can imagine a little bit of a reputation
had developed around me, man. And so what that looked
like was with my brother and my wife relationship came
(25:15):
to surface. It was feared that if I was to
get out, you know, I would retaliate, and so she
in response, she was curious, you know, to make sure
I ain't get out. So when what she did was
she made statements and not only would damage it to me,
but they were damaging to other people that were loyal
(25:35):
to me as well. A couple of people who had
nothing to do with my cases were about to get
charged with having to do to do something with my cases.
But they ain't, you know, like I said, they ain't
have nothing to do with her, and so, you know,
so I've been caught up in this with her, and
so you know, so I've been caught up in this
like for destiation since I can remember, right, so you know,
(25:57):
I know how to come up with some vestris of
lehing else. And that's what that was what I came
up with.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
Man.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
You know, at the time, the logic was especially considering
one of the people that she was trying to implicate
on my cases. It was a due It was like
my brother, man, and we did have a lot of
loyalty between us, and so my thing was by all means,
I was going to assure it that, you know, my
wife wasn't gonna be able to do anything to jeopardize
(26:25):
nobody else on my only you know motive. Only uh
option in that situation was you know, you know, taking
negativity of course, but only option in that scenario was
to get out and do something to her and others
as well. And so when I got the gun smoking
in the county, that's death of bottle, uh, trying to
draw the attention, you know, to do that, but also
(26:45):
dart attention from cases away from my people all the
way to me. You know, I had paid people to
walk me out of the county, but unfortunately, you know,
when it came down to it, you know, they renigged
on me, man. And it was a desperacial situation from
his perception. So you know, one one desperate thing, then
(27:06):
to see me doing another desperate thing, man, And next
thing you know, I'm in the county jail shooting. That's
how that played out.
Speaker 3 (27:15):
You were you said you were shooting.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
Yeah, I ended up shooting a couple of shots at
one of the deputies. He you know, trying to get
away from me, man, and slapped the door on me. Man,
and uh, I get I shot at him.
Speaker 5 (27:29):
Yeah, So what made you stop returning fire then? Like,
why didn't like what stopped you from in the cliff
or whatever.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
Well, part of it was I had chased this man
down and the person who I who I shot at
ID Like I said, I ended up chasing him down
and I was sober, and so I was looking him
in the face. Man. You know, when I was in
the county jail by this time, probably seventeen months, and
it was seventeen hard months, you know, like I said,
I was I had to keep to myself, my wife,
(27:58):
messing with my brother and know everything that was going
on with my cases. And then it was just a
lot of pressure from being in that situation with my
life in general, right, and so yeah, man, it was
just it was it was. It was uh yeah, it was,
it was. It was.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
It was.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
It just made me think back to it a little bit, too,
but it was, uh yeah, you just made me think
back to it. Man. It was uh, you know, like
I say, man, one desperation, one desperate thing lead to another.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
Man.
Speaker 5 (28:29):
I'm curious how did they handle the situation, because I
imagine they weren't happy that you had a gun and
you shot at them, So like, did you go peacefully?
Did they come and like spray you or beat you?
Speaker 1 (28:40):
Like?
Speaker 3 (28:40):
How did that? How did that turn about?
Speaker 1 (28:44):
I forgot that's what you was asking too. I related myself,
man at at the moment of the other shooting that
let escape the tell my brother and another young lady
was outside in the truck. And so after I shot,
I had no plan of shooting. I had no fans,
and you know, it was just supposed to been somebody
walking me out. And you know, but after the shooting
(29:06):
all that and you know, the chaots and people running
around and stuff like that or whatever. I got to
thinking about my brother and the young lady who was outside,
and I was looking at the man who I was chasing,
the deputy I was chasing, And like I said, I
was about to say, I had been in the county
jail by that side like seventeen months, and of course
(29:26):
particularly took me months. I had quite a few ups
and downs times where they saying individual will come talk
to me, you know, uh in very effective ways, you know,
help me, you know, keep my bars the mature. So
I stopped myself from shooting, you know what I mean.
I stopped myself by just reflecting on who it was right,
but then also thinking about my people, you know, sitting
(29:49):
outside in the vehicle but would have been my getaway
vehicle and not knowing what was going on. So I
put the gun down, I jammed the God I got
the gun jam myself, and then I put it down
and I just started speaking to the deputy like, you know, man,
mother fucker put you in the situation. You know, man,
you know, I gotta do what I gotta do. Man,
you know. And he caught on and got up on
(30:09):
his feet, and he took over the situation. He made
sure didn't nobody because you know, you had a couple
of guards to uh wanted the cause of the body
in the arm, that's proba can imagine. But he stopped
all that, you know what I mean, because he understood,
like you know, I stopped myself, so he made sure
you know, uh, well ship after that man, everything was handled,
I guess instead professionally responsible, but you know it was
(30:32):
some embarrassment on the prosecutions. On the prosecution side. That's
why they you know, they made sure they are swept
it out of the world real quick. Actually, my wife,
she she was charged with, ain't invented me in that incident.
But in all actuality she would the state start witness
she didn't even have that. She wasn't even there, you
know what I mean. But they were so eager to
(30:54):
get it out at the line life if they beheaded
after guilty for them, gave it to time for they
new s. But you know that just I guess going
to show you know, the level they did the preparision
or whatever. But yeah, that's what happened though.
Speaker 3 (31:09):
Man, that's pretty why, Yeah, that's one.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
Of the ones. You know, when I look back, I
take them to what to myself, caught the competed man.
You don't see how you job obviously, as you know,
you know, being a grown man looking back and saying,
sometimes they don't look exactly how they look, you know,
from a different perspective man. And sometimes I look at
(31:34):
some of the decisions I made now I find myself wondering, like, man,
what were you thinking? Man? You know, and uh, you know,
but then at the same time, I believe in my
heart of hearts that even as crazy as as a
lot of situations look and sound crazy as they were.
You know, when I weigh well other options, you know,
(31:57):
I understood at the time that they have or whatever. Right,
you know, I did the best I could, man, you know,
so I did the best of.
Speaker 3 (32:05):
A mass, you know, right right.
Speaker 5 (32:10):
I'm curious when did you meet Auto? Like, how did
you guys meet? Because I don't know if you realize
this or not, but he used to be part of
the A B. So when he told me about y'all,
is like, really, you know, because I mean, you know,
because I Auto was Auto that I mean, he didn't care,
you know, But I'm like, he used to be in
(32:31):
the AB, so kind.
Speaker 3 (32:32):
Of like see me for a surprise.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
Yeah, I'm one of them people. Man. Even though I
don't talk a lot, I do my understandings allows me
to not be biased towards other people. Hold on, what's
up looking at myself? You're not to be biased towards
other people. So if you present yourself open to me,
you know I'm gonna respond. You know, man, be able
to communicate with you on whatever lever will you present
(32:56):
yourself as right? And when I'm meant otto, man, I
was in account his uh his he had a tattoo
at the time, and I remember they kept raiding and
his stuff. Man, and uh he came into county at
the time. When I met him, I was just in
the paper from a dude Kinna they had uh, they
had to give a dude the deal. We had a
(33:17):
raper and they dropped his raid to become a witness
to get this meet. And it was a dude another
another white brother man brig beautiful song named Paula Kilbert.
He he knew one of my foster parents. Man. And
when I them came in there one time, he introduced
us and we just get it up in a dry
(33:40):
crazy sense of humor. Right, So that that was man
kind of plighting bool. And then we got cool man.
It was tomorrow the situations and he was giving me
input on mine. But then I saw him again, uh
two different times over two more times over the years
and isolation, and it was always man, keep your head up, man,
(34:04):
you know what I mean. It was always respect and
you know, I like to believe a little bit of understanding,
you know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (34:09):
You know so uh mm did he did he ever
talk about his cases with you?
Speaker 1 (34:15):
Like?
Speaker 3 (34:15):
Did you know he was also a serial unliver like yourself?
Speaker 2 (34:18):
Like?
Speaker 3 (34:18):
Did you know? Did you know that?
Speaker 1 (34:21):
I know, I knew. I knew about the one with
his uh I want to say his wife and his
daughter or something, the one he just recently told, But
nobody was at some of that effect. I knew about that,
but not not. I mean, you know, of course I
heard the rumors, but I've never really uh, I don't
(34:44):
know how to explain him, and I've never really been
big on other people's business.
Speaker 3 (34:48):
You know, so right, especially in prison, I hear that.
Speaker 1 (34:52):
No, No, I'm sorry, we need to back it up
for a minute. What body.
Speaker 3 (35:01):
You said with the mother and daughter?
Speaker 1 (35:04):
Yeah, the last thing he told me was something about
somebody wrote I think the daughter wrote him, or the
daughter of the mother. I hope I misrepresented somebody's situation.
But somebody had wrote him, and it was a it
was a body I think of his wife or his
ex wife or something along those lines, who have been
uh yeah, told him where it was at after so
(35:27):
many years.
Speaker 3 (35:30):
Oh, so they were asking him if he was responsible, right,
and he.
Speaker 1 (35:35):
Had help Broca he was so explained to me y'all relationship,
you know, how y'all were whichever doing on on the podcast,
and how he was closing cases or whatever. But the
last time we spoke spoke, he had told me that
somebody's daughter had wrote him and asked him for their
mother and that he had, you know, uh, reached out
(36:01):
and basically complied and how you know, it was a
little bit off his chest. I don't know if I'm
saying it right, but because it's been a minute, you
probably are.
Speaker 3 (36:11):
That's probably the one that he was telling us had
written him and he wasn't sure who it was, right right?
Speaker 1 (36:16):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (36:17):
Do you remember that now?
Speaker 1 (36:19):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (36:19):
Do you remember him mentioning that that's crazy?
Speaker 2 (36:25):
Did Andrew tell you the last words he said to us?
Speaker 1 (36:32):
Then? I can thoroughly remember. That was it? That was
it right there? That's what the last words he told.
Speaker 3 (36:38):
The last thing he said to us was I love
you guys to death.
Speaker 1 (36:43):
Oh wow, you said your last words? He said, yeah.
Speaker 3 (36:51):
Yeah, it's kind of weird.
Speaker 5 (36:54):
I don't know if he knew like he was dying
or dough or you know, like and because I wondered
that because it was out of no area, I know he.
Speaker 1 (37:04):
Had his interest too, because one of the last incidents
I remember I have in my mind, I mean, were
both at the medical unit. I go over there to
get blood pressure. He was he had been over there
a few times, and you know, you know, it's early
in the morning, guys from different units, different races, people
don't want to talk to each other, and this dude
(37:25):
come in jokes.
Speaker 3 (37:28):
You have one, yeah, dues that they don't even like you.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
I'm like, man, it's just crazy. Man, I can't even
say what he said. You know, you just don't really
know he said crazy.
Speaker 5 (37:45):
Oh yeah, he would always you always tell me like
like racial jokes and like gay jokes and then like
just like damn yeah, Okay, all right, sounds good. I
know it's like a no no in prison right to
like tell each other about tell each other about like
each other's crimes or whatever. Right, So you guys probably
(38:06):
never like discussed your crimes.
Speaker 3 (38:08):
Right, No, no, not at all? Okay.
Speaker 5 (38:11):
I wasn't sure Ivada was the type of dude to
like discuss it with other inmates and like try to
get off because he did with me, but maybe he
felt more comfortable with me than he did other inmates.
Speaker 1 (38:23):
People really don't talk about it. I mean, I can
imagine something like their children. It'd be a situational it
was based on like because you would hear some dudes
talk about their cases. Who uh, and it won't even
matter if they got shorter A long time now, I
used to be said, I think it's more so about
their disposition towards their situation. You got some dudes that
(38:45):
to talk about what they went through, you know, you know,
for the for the mere taking conversation or to make
a point or whatever, right because their case is over with,
or you know, because it wasn't as serious, or you know,
something along those lines. But then you got guys who
won't say nothing even though their case might be over
and that be something that'd be more attributed to, you know,
(39:06):
their character, their personality. But in an overall sense, I
would say, no, you know, I don't really talk too
much period myself. Right, I don't I get personal with
a you know, a guy or whatever. Man. But I
tainted my my reasons for opening up to people. So
(39:26):
if I can, you know, do share some positive which
will not or you know, uh, you know things like that.
I spend a lot of time to myself, you know,
personal or whatever. But yeah, you know, you got different
dudes here to talk about it, because it might just like,
for example, I facilitated manhood program and we we you know,
we get very personal and you know, you got guys
(39:47):
who will share about their lives more in depth than others.
You know, Uh, what's your clue? You know some of
the things they did in the streets to emphasize a
point of how they looked at life or why they
did what they did and whatever. But it's only the
less mature ones man who uh who talk about it,
you know, just for the second talking about it, you know,
like it's something to glorify or they competing with something,
(40:11):
you know, they think somebody think about it or some
like that or whatever. Yeah, it's typically it's more sort
no no than anything.
Speaker 3 (40:18):
Are you in a MAX prison right now?
Speaker 1 (40:20):
No, I'm in the uh right up under Max's uh
club security number three security.
Speaker 3 (40:29):
Yeah, so is that still twenty three one?
Speaker 1 (40:33):
No?
Speaker 3 (40:33):
No, but we out all they here, Okay, it's.
Speaker 1 (40:36):
Uh yeah, pretty much out there. H For most of
my time though I've been uh, I've been isolated for
most of the time I've been down.
Speaker 3 (40:50):
Is that because you're active, like you're on an active.
Speaker 1 (40:55):
No, it's just you know, for me, it's just because
of my charges. You know, even though I did, you know,
those things as a kid, they still held against me.
You know, I'm I don't even have a fight on
my record, you know, and I'm I was supposed to have
been deemed one of the most violent in the state,
you know, since straight to supermacs you know, uh, you know,
take it through all types of loopholes and bears, you
(41:17):
know what I mean. But I haven't even got a
fight on my record, man, and they still still you know,
find a way to isolate me, finding reason to keep
me uncomfortable and keep me you know, the fact that.
Speaker 3 (41:31):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, do you still get banging there?
Speaker 1 (41:35):
No, No, I've left that alone man, years ago. Man, Uh,
it's been over twenty years, and I still you know,
I have times when you know, I might get it
like the population might be more of what I what
I come from, right like it might be more of
them than anything or whatever. Then I still had a reputation,
So I use that to say something to try to
(41:57):
you know, uh, you know, uh, you know, living a
positive contribution to you know, the way days maybe going
to something like that, but other than that, I don't
mess with that at all.
Speaker 5 (42:11):
So I'm curious, like, let's say you already get out
of prison today, and you were like a gang prevention specialist, Like,
what would you do to say, like somebody that was
your age, say like fifteen years old, no mother, no father,
gang banging on the streets. Like what would what would
(42:32):
be your go to like tools and resources to try
to help them to not end up like you did?
Speaker 3 (42:37):
You know, well, my main tool would be.
Speaker 1 (42:42):
My experiences, you know, when I was when I was
going through So I came to prison at seventeen, and
I was around around men, right, and I never had
a father, never really had a brother, you know, I
mean not in the traditional sense, but I and I
(43:03):
even though I was, you know, a self will mail, right,
I definitely look to other men, you know, will be
man for examples and things of that nature. The ones
that I listened to over the years, the ones that
were effective in reaching me were the ones that I
was able to identify part of my own self. And
(43:25):
you know, what they had, what they said, even what
they did when when they wasn't even talking to me
directly communicated to me more loudly because I identify with
them or in them, if they understand to a certain extent,
because they come fronded. So with that being said, one
of my approaches will be my experiences, you know, but
it would also be more so how I went through
(43:47):
all those things and whatever my position would be to
approach them how you know, you got to be a
guy for me to be a bit talk to them,
you know, in the first place, you know what I mean,
with my sanity, like I said, with my life, you know,
still attacking things of that nature. But I would go
on to use my experiences and lessons from my experiences,
but more so my experiences themselves to point out like man,
(44:09):
I done did it? You know, I come from it
throwing through and I ain't doing for the reasons that
most people doing it for image and reputation. I did
it because I was for real about it, trying to
make a life out of it. So that make it
a little bit more deeper, more intimate. And I did
it enough, as deep and as intimate enough to know
that it's some boards shit, you know, from the expectations
(44:31):
of camaraderie. So you know, the expectation that living this
life you're gonna somehow get it life out of you know,
living this life, right, it don't match up, you know
what I mean? And you know, my life, you know
shows pools that you know, uh were vividly than anything,
you know what I mean. It's people who actually believe
(44:52):
that way life can be made out of the streets.
And I'm and i'm you know, my life pools not
just my experiences, but I know, you know, individuals who
had money or getting you know, gang bang, you know,
just different lanes and you know, different lanes and uh
you know, uh perspectives. Right, I've seen all in the
(45:12):
same way, you know, either in prison, either dead physically
or did somewhere mentally you know, psychologically. And so I
would use all that, you know, my first hand experiences,
man to uh make that connection, you know, uh, to
emphasize the point like shit and just what you're about
(45:34):
to do. You might as well get you signed up
for some ball man, you know, you sannd them. You
know this is walking this lifestyles a walking contradition, you know.
But then I would go on to sharm don't like
options on what they could potentially be in ways that
I wasn't shown had i'd have been, you know, had
(45:54):
it been exposed to me that just because I was young,
black and male, I didn't have to go through with
Everybody was telling me how if I'd been exposed to
those type of things, just to thinking that, man, you
ain't necessarily got to go through this, you know what
I mean, and how they've been exposed to it the
right way, the effective way, right, you know, my outcome
would have been in life, getting you know, different or whatever.
(46:15):
So you know that would be my approach, man, to
help them see that. You know, their options are more
than just uh, you know, sustration, you know, gang bang
and selling dope or you know, all that little limited
stuff to go with that limited dysfunctional stuff to go
with that lifestyle. You know what I mean. And it
(46:36):
just so happens that you know, I know how to
speak that language. I'm not to speak it in a
way where it's effective, man, you know, with making the connection,
but also you know, uh, cutting on the life man.
You know, in some in a person's mind, you know,
to like I said, what their options are, because at
the end of the day, that's what it bought down
(46:56):
to a lot of those individuals where they mail or female,
they out there and doing what they're doing because they
are convinced, to some extent or another that go what
they can be in life, what they can and can't
have in life. It's all said and determined, and in
a lot of sense it is when you really break
this society down in terms of its cast structure. Right,
(47:19):
it is right. But at the same time, what I
realized from my experience is that the energy that I
put in doing all that stuff I did out in
the streets, gang banging and shut a dog marking for hire,
all that that same energy had I'd have been, you know,
focusing on school, focusing on other things, that same energy
could have It should have rendered me, you know, a
(47:41):
better life. Man. It didn't because I wasn't exposed to
that line of thinking that you know that those possibilities. Man.
So that's a lot of what I would what I
would do different man, in terms of reaching a younger
version of me, and you know, just helping them understand
that what we call the gang a gang, it's about
(48:02):
something much bigger than trying to manipulate people or you know,
a quick you know, come up with some ship like
that or whatever. You know, it's really about.
Speaker 5 (48:10):
Life right right. Somebody just asked, do you try and
help kids now? Young kids?
Speaker 1 (48:16):
Now? Yeah? Uh, Like I said, I do my manhood
programs in here, but them around for growth and development.
It's not what it should be what you would think
it it'd be for here as far as on the streets.
But I've been trying for years to put my books
and programs out on the streets. But it's been a challenge, man,
connecting with you know, the right people. But yeah, that's
(48:40):
my commitment man to uh, that's what keep me going
every day, you know, to uh, I mean, I do
you know, it's it's somebody you know, reaching almost every
day man, But to the you know, to the degree
and the impact that I aspired and may I haven't yet,
but that's definitely my focus. That's definitely my focus.
Speaker 4 (49:00):
Keep your head up, keep trying to be impactful, Keep
trying to show people that this is where they need
to be. And hey, I'm sure this won't be the
last time I chat at you, but I got a
boy that I need to go work out, so it was.
Speaker 2 (49:19):
It will impactful for me. Hear your story.
Speaker 4 (49:24):
Just uh, just keep fighting man. Just keep fighting for others, Andrew,
I mean, I'm out.
Speaker 5 (49:32):
Later in the future, I'd like to do some more
lives because I'd like to talk specifically about the Supermax
because it was Craig me if I'm wrong, but it
was Lucasville, right, No, that's actually uh Youngstown, Ohio, Ohio.
Speaker 3 (49:51):
Oh, that's that's the that's the Superman's.
Speaker 1 (49:54):
Yeah, Lucasville was the Max.
Speaker 3 (49:57):
I thought it was Okay, for some reason, I thought
it was vice vers.
Speaker 5 (50:00):
So that that Lucasville was the super Max, and then
the Max is Youngstown.
Speaker 3 (50:06):
Okay, how many years did you get again?
Speaker 1 (50:10):
Fifty one?
Speaker 5 (50:11):
Yeah, he got one hundred and fifty one years. All right, Well,
I think we could probably call it good for tonight. Yeah,
thank you so much. I'm gonna email you tonight and
I'm gonna release our interview, like I said, in like
two and a half three weeks, and then we can
do another live. We can do maybe like one one
once a month if you're cool with that, like we
(50:32):
were doing with Auto.
Speaker 3 (50:36):
Okay, all right, you have a good night. Okay, Okay,
I have a good night.
Speaker 1 (50:40):
I appreciate your time.
Speaker 3 (50:41):
All right, take care
So for the record, my name is Prentcess Williams. I
was born and raised intoed Ohio forty six years of age,
and I'm currently twenty three years in on one hundred
and fifty one years since. My incarceration includes four murders,
two of which were aggravated and once upon the time
capital cases, you know, and two of those happened when
(00:40):
I was fifteen and two when I was age twenty three.
In terms of illustrating my childhood leading up to the
committing those acts, man, you know, I was born to
a lot of dysfunction. My mom's was across the two
who had part ways when you when I was three
weeks so my father he was an epidemic, no show,
(01:04):
you know. So I was exposed to a lot of dysfunctioning,
a lot of ignorance, a lot of violence, and things
of that nature. One of the most repeated things that
I was exposed to was the ignorance about what my
options were like, about my value and work right. I
was told as a kid that I was either gonna
(01:26):
die or see prison by the time I was eighteen
and twenty one, you know, as well as being told
things about how the world don't give a fuck about
me on the strength that I'm black, and you know,
things of that nature. These were the things that as
the foundation served to you know, paint my you know,
painting with my expectations for the world, my view in
the world, my disposition for the world, if you will.
(01:47):
So by the time when I was fifteen, I committed
my first act, my first murder is to be simple
to playing. I was hungry, you know. I had been
in foster care since I was you know, pretty much
born man and you know, children Services of tole Ohio
had custody of me. And by the time I was
fourteen twelves, between twelve and fourteen, I started running away
(02:10):
on a long periods of time for my first arms.
A lot of people were associated with me, haven't been bad.
But truth of the matter is I was searching, you know,
I was trying to find my identity, man. I was
trying to find my fit man, and got caught up
in the street. If the gang is the nation. But
like I said that, my first you know murder was committed.
(02:31):
I was hungry, I was homeless, and I was desperate,
and I had a few years of living out there
the streets certain pope and living between the drugug houses
and things.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Of that nature. Man.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
And you know that street culture is one where we
move fast. You know, you went into a lot of
people quick, and you know a lot of you know,
people you know want to lose. Morely speaking, things of
that nature. Man, sometimes you don't resort to will and uh,
that's what happened with me. And then you know, my
second place I was on the round for that first
murder was wash who was a gentleman named Reprehendis you
(03:04):
know who I ended up killing, Uh an attempted robbery
situation whatever that you know, took his life on. But
then while I was on on the round for that one,
I caught another murder. I had ended up killing a
young lady by the name is Shelley, whom I have
been living with for a period of time and it
was in an offer long relationship with even though she
(03:25):
was older than who he had came out that there
was she was potentially uh telling them, you know, calling
the crimest. She turned me in on the murder that
was already on the round for and you know, so
that result isn't me you know, ultimately killing her. If
I was to have to illustrate my reason, and I
would just say that, you know, I was caught up
(03:45):
in the lifestyle. Man. I believed in it, you know, uh,
and so you know I was. I believed in some
of the codes and the standards that was you know,
encouraged for us to believe. You know, I do, a
lot of people don't believe in him. You know, you
got something once in a while. I'm mener taking shis now.
I ain't had nothing else so you know. But anyway,
so I had I caught those cases right, but I
(04:07):
didn't end up going to prison for until I was
twenty cast for more murderers like twenty three to murder
for higher incidents that resulted in me facing the death.
But I ended up not going the crowd for it
to complete to one hundred and fifty one years. But
(04:28):
in terms of uh finishtrating you know, some of the
corners and then to me commit that crime my arm.
I was home probably thirty days after doing the sixth
to fifteen year print in stint, in which I did
h pretty much for six years nine months I was.
I went to prison as a kid. I went in
at sixteen, I came out at twenty three. When I
(04:52):
went in, I was homeless. So when I came out,
I was homeless, right, and I didn't really have much
or anything for anyone to fall back on. So I
fell back into you know, my old lifestyle. I didn't
have a halfway house, which any to me as an option.
I didn't have any you know, a state you know,
or assistance presina to me as an option, none of that.
(05:13):
So you know, I went back to the streets with
I knew best man, you know, and uh it aught
to me, uh resulted in me killing two more people
into uh you know, moneyful, higher incidute, you know. So see,
so now I'm in a long story, because the longest
the swift version of a long story is now I'm
automate doing one hundred and fifty more years. Like I say,
(05:34):
I'm twenty three years in on it. And you know,
my outlook on it is that, uh it was for
me to go through it so that I can use
the lessons from my experiences to help others. And you
know that's my genuine commitment to help those who uh
you know, I'm who like myself, man who was taught
at lifestyle you know, young and you know, believe that
(05:55):
that was their highest option. Well, and they are a
heartsh like myself. I always believed that it was something
more for me. I just didn't know how to find
that more. And while a lot of people don't know
how to identify it. A lot of those things that
I'm jealous for, I condemn for what's having done out
on the streets. Man, it was part of that process
of my search, you know, just you know, it just
(06:15):
wasn't wasn't treating.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
This is Sewyn Jones. He's the uncle to George Floyd.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
He's up here with us.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
You can hear me.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
Yeah, Man, I hear you. What's that brother?
Speaker 1 (06:29):
H How are you doing? Man?
Speaker 4 (06:31):
Man, I'm doing, Man, I'm doing. I am uh trying
to move some some changes forward, man, so people can
have a better opportunity to enjoy life, my brother, so
they don't have to be putting bad situations from genigrational curses,
my brother, most.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
Definitely, Man, that's one of my commitments. Man. So I
definitely a solution for that work. Uh.
Speaker 4 (06:56):
And my question was, do you have any moors on
the things that you had to do a lot of
people don't feel like they have options because of the
systemic way that a lot of black people were raised
in the ghetto or just around particular situations. And my
(07:18):
heart breaks when I hear a young man that tells
me that it started off that way and when you
were sixteen years old and by the time you were
twenty three, you were put in an unwinnable situation.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Because of the decisions that you made. Man.
Speaker 4 (07:38):
So you know, yeah, it just blows me away, man,
that we as people let kids slip through the cracks
to become adults that have been incarcerated throughout their whole life.
So man, you keep your head up, you keep your
(08:02):
aware of that, man, and you keep educating.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I appreciate it, Man, I appreciate it.
You know, it's gonna take people who come from it
to really contribute to the to the remedy. Man. You
know what I'm outside sources and institutions and the people
who you know, it will seem like will be able
to u you know, become engaged and you know, help
and things of that nature, and it really can't. They
(08:26):
can just throw solutions at it, but it takes people
like myself who come from it, man. So one of
my commitments man, one of my determinations. One of the
things that's got me up with sure early the days
and I got up over the last twenty three years.
The cool ain't having supermax is knowing that somebody else
gonna get something from this, you know, more than what
I heard. I'm gonna help you know what I mean?
(08:46):
So yeah, yeah, I appreciate that.
Speaker 4 (08:52):
Tell me your straight of mind, knowing that you will
never ever be free again?
Speaker 2 (09:00):
How do you maneuver doing your day and knowing that
you that you're home? How does that affect one one's
men on capacity?
Speaker 1 (09:16):
So probably about two hours ago I wanted I was.
I was caught into the day like damn should I
should I have by somebody? Right? I was dealing with
some frustrations, you know, to be honest with whatever, right,
And the first thing that come to your mind is, yeah,
I got all this time. I ain't got nothing to lose, YadA, YadA, YadA. Right,
(09:37):
And you gotta check that every day, right, every day,
many times a day. And so how I check it? Man?
What what I do is I just take responsibility for
what I did. One part of it is, like I said,
I was being told as a kid that I was
gonna see prison or die by the time I was
twenty one. So in the ages that I said there,
(10:00):
imagine it myself playing basketball or studying, you know, for
exams or whatever I was imagining as a kid with
my life is gonna look out either if it was
like either in prison or on the streets. So when
I came to prison, it was like a self fulfilled profitency.
So even though that's a you know, unfortunate way of
putting it, it's the truth in that it helped me
(10:22):
prepare it for dinners, you know, setting this shit right.
But at the same time, the humanitarian to decide of
my humanity is a woke now because out there it
was non It's a woke and it's conscious. So it
hurt having to reconcile myself to that fact. But at
the same time, I know that if I'm gonna if
I'm gonna render the effects that I tend to, it's
(10:43):
multiple things I gotta be able to do. I gotta
not just be able to talk to people, but I
gotta lead with my example. I take the responsibility for
my actions by how I get up every day and
how I go about my day. Because it's a lot
of individuals in here who some of them locked up
for some of them not even knocked up for it,
and they gonna go back out here, but they get
a glimpse of when it looked like to really truly
(11:05):
make their transformation, would also still be in this situation
and hold it up. You know what I mean? As
we say, you know, so you know it's still some
dignity associated with it.
Speaker 4 (11:15):
That's a hell of a statement, my brother, that's a
hell of a statement. Man, Man, I am been doing yourself.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
Man, I know that that wisdom will be come from
some degree of some degree of either experience or you know,
in depth observation.
Speaker 4 (11:33):
So I brother, I've I've seen, I've seen all the roads.
I've seen all the roads. I always make a statement,
and I say that everybody waits up with two things
every day. Uh that's a chance and a choice and
a chance. And we should put more emphasis on the
(11:55):
choices that we make so we can have better chances.
But uh, one one thing that uh remaining Uh.
Speaker 3 (12:07):
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, right back, if
you can.
Speaker 5 (12:11):
Thank you for using gto Hey, quick question, what was
the word you used to describe your father?
Speaker 1 (12:18):
Oh? Uh, epidemic no show. Yeah, no show.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
Okay, Okay, what do you say, epidemic no show?
Speaker 2 (12:28):
Epidemic no show.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
Okay, I've been saying that for a minute.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
Do you have any contact with your family?
Speaker 1 (12:37):
No? No. When I was coming up, man, we didn't. Uh,
like I said, my mom's lifting when I'm a screaming show.
I stayed with my grandmother for off and on the
first eight years of my life. But at the same time,
she was, uh, she was she was, you know, unstable,
so she couldn't keep cussing on me. So I never
really had the chance to spond. Pretty much came up.
Speaker 4 (13:04):
The h Wow, you never really had a chance If
that's what is that what I'm hearing from the people
from the people around you? You never you never had anybody.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
Right, definitely didn't have people you know in terms of
yeah you have definitely dint have that. Uh, I have an.
Speaker 4 (13:28):
Experience when you're doing bad, you have a lot of
people that influenced you to do bad.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
But that's the key.
Speaker 4 (13:36):
Uh, you don't have a lot of people that are
trying to that will change that mindset because Uh, eagles
don't fly with crows and pigeons because they ship all
over everything.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
And that's that systemic problem that we deal with with
people with people further of a feather flock together.
Speaker 4 (13:54):
And if you hang around ship down at poo poo,
that's what you're gonna get in a mental capacity to
dealing with poopo. I'm not making good, good choice of
the good decisions.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
Man. Wow, do you ever feel like the way they do?
Speaker 4 (14:11):
You ever feel like life is? Do you ever feel
like your life was put here to be lost with
all the things you had to go through as a kid.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
No, I actually feel the opposite. I actually I am
very much convinced that I went through and I did
everything I did for a specific reason, for a holy,
spiritual reason and purpose. I know it sounds cliche, you know,
you see a lot of guys come to prison and they,
you know, talk about how they find revision and things.
(14:46):
I genuinely believe that because you know, like, for example,
just me being able to talk to you and answer
your question right now, psychologically speaking, I'm not supposed to
be able to do this. We go by what the
people that is writing everything say. Whatever. You know, I
went straight to Superman isolation, get a decade, and that
(15:06):
I never had a formal education, and we get to
see I'm still here able to you know, articulate, you
know my reality take you no, yeah, inclusion right, you know.
And that's that's that's something I tribute to God's purpose
and plan because a lot of the things that I understand,
a lot of the things that I remember going through,
they don't affect me the way that I can hear
(15:29):
other people talking about how they went on and just
defined their lives, you know what I mean. So and
that strength only can come from God. Man, I believe that,
you know, I'm on the path or like I said before,
utilizing the lessons from my experiences to help those because
it's a lot of people we watch the news every day,
there's people still living that like this, you know, every
(15:49):
sturban community, every city, you know what I mean. And
so it's lives like mine that can communicate I've been
doing it for years that you know, reached those living
like that, and you'll kind of help them find their
way back then. And that's only something God.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
I get it.
Speaker 6 (16:08):
Man, you keep your head up and you keep you
keep spreading the good message, and you show those young
brothers that have gotten those three to five to ten
years what they need to get.
Speaker 4 (16:25):
Back out and accomplish and be well rounded human beings
and individuals, because.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
All it takes.
Speaker 4 (16:33):
Like I said, Ah, you wake up every day with
a chance and the choice, and if you can instill
in their brains, hey, you don't want to be in
a situation that I'm in that I'll die in here
because you have a chance. Every day is a beautiful
thing for people to get opportunity to wake up, because
how many people will go to sleep tonight and get
(16:56):
ready for bed and not have that opportunity to be
able to spread that wisdom or to make an impact
in anybody's life. So you keep impacting these young fellows, man,
because unfortunately, you are in a situation that.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
Most people shouldn't be in or never should have.
Speaker 4 (17:23):
The opportunity to be able to experience all the things
that you've got experience and have experience. But as you said,
from that spiritual point of view, you lock in with
these young kids, man, and you be a hero to
those young kids, and you you know, and you put
it in their heads.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
This isn't what life is supposed to be. I've lost mind.
Speaker 4 (17:50):
I'm making bad choices and bad decisions because I didn't
know any better. But I'm here to give you that
strength to let you know that this isn't what you want,
this isn't what you need.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
Sure, so you be that guy man.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
Oh I appreciate it. Man, I'm min.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
Yep, you be that guy.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
Man.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
You just be that guy, brother, because.
Speaker 4 (18:20):
Life for precious man, no matter what were wind, how
as long as you can wake up and you can
and make an impact and affect somebody's life, that's my focus.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
Man. Definitely definitely come with some press. It definitely come
with having to endorse some blues man. But uh yeah,
I've been staying of course.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
So wow brother, wi wah wil uh.
Speaker 4 (18:49):
Just stay strong, man, stay strong, stay strong, stay strong.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
What how were you.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
The first time? How?
Speaker 4 (19:00):
Oh were you the first time that you unlive somebody?
Speaker 1 (19:04):
Oh? Fifteen?
Speaker 2 (19:06):
You were fifteen years.
Speaker 3 (19:08):
Old the first two times? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (19:15):
Wow, what would your situation? What was your scenario.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
The first one? Man? Like I was saying, I he
just all the way honest, man. I was longer. I
had a few different dope houses. I had freak with it,
and I have went around to the dope houses man
to see if I could acquire a couple of dollars,
you know, running across somebody that I was familiar with
and I didn't and and one of them, it was
(19:41):
man by the name of Robert hendricks Man, who was
in there. He was actually buying some crack, but he
was said to have a substantial amount of money on him.
You know, I never robbed anybody before or after this.
I never really believed that stealing anything from anybody or whatever, right,
but I was literally so lombleie man, that should I
(20:03):
went in there. Man, I went to Robbie and he's
still in his ground, you know, and uh, I want
to be ended up shooting the shit man. But yeah, yeah,
that was the first space.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (20:14):
And now how many how many people are you incarcerated for?
Speaker 2 (20:18):
Uh uh for this act?
Speaker 1 (20:21):
Yeah? Uh yeah? I had how many? Four?
Speaker 2 (20:24):
Four people?
Speaker 1 (20:26):
Yeah? Wow? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (20:31):
And the first two were that fifteen.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
Yeah yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
And what about the last two Faber twenty three?
Speaker 1 (20:40):
Like I said, I had just got released from prison, man,
and they were a murder for higher incident, where one
of them was a murder for higher incident and the
other one was uh who would have been my co
defendant on that case.
Speaker 5 (20:54):
So that was the code defendant the fourth thington Yeah four?
Was that just to make sure they want to testify
if they're arrested.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, we had. I had did a shooting
earlier that day and there was somebody who survived. They
didn't know me, but they knew him, and they got
said of the name he had, Uh, he had he
had word that got to me that he was communicating
with the h the authorities, you know, letting them know
(21:25):
that he didn't know it, but that he was with
the person who did it. And I got went it
at once. We ended up killing me before before they
can catch.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
It as well.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
No no, no long eve. We call him as actually
been at any game.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
How much money did you get for that job?
Speaker 1 (21:44):
Okah shit, obviously not enough, but if to be honest, man.
Speaker 7 (21:47):
About seven grand Wow, Sharon Grant contributed to your life calturation.
Uh wow, my brother.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
It's something that it's just something when you put it
like that, Yeah, definitely. But when you when you when
you when you back against the wall, man, you uh,
you ain't got no where to lay your head for
the night, or you know, you gotta figure it, you
know what I mean. It's it seemed like at the time,
and especially like I said, I go back to your
options thing, especially when you think that you were tossing
(22:22):
your highest option. You know, it seemed like you know,
it's worth it or that you know, it seemed logical
at the time. Man, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
So did you were you were you addicted them crack?
Speaker 1 (22:34):
No, No, I didn't have any drugs uh drug issues.
I just I just you know then that you know
I came you know, it just came up. How I
came up, you know, I mean, I just uh never
really found that the ground under my foot so to speak,
you know, uh, like I say, from going through the
foster home thing and running away from the foster homes
and shit matter. And so by the time my was
(22:58):
fourteen fifteen and things that nature froster parents were, Uh
that's eager to take in. You know, a young male
who you know, had the reputation that he has has,
you know, the history that he has with so many
difficult songs and you know, group homes and juvenile facilities
(23:19):
or whatever. Right, So it was not man, you know,
wearing only man from you know, my living situations to know,
like I said, not having nobody any things with that nature.
But I could say edment. You know, even smoking weeds,
A lot of people don't associated.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
And you never did any hard drugs.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
When I was fighting the capitol, when I was County jail,
fighting for my life, fighting the capital cases. Yeah, I
did a few different drug did a cocaine, a couple
of pang pills while I was in there, you know, fighting. Uh.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
But when you were, when you were free and you
had the choice, is the man, you never got it.
You were never addicted the drugs.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
No, no, no.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
That's.
Speaker 4 (24:10):
That is, David, Because most people that find themselves and
these precarious situations are addicted to something.
Speaker 3 (24:22):
I believe.
Speaker 5 (24:22):
I read an article right about a weapon that was
smuggled into the jail, right you talking about that, and
how like how that even came about?
Speaker 1 (24:32):
Okay, So, like I said, I was too murder for
cases became capital cases. And while I was fighting those,
when I was going to trial for those, my wife
and my oldest brother had become involved in a sexual relationship.
Now at the time my murder for iris before my
(24:54):
wife's family. You know, by this time, you know, I
told you how to committed some murders. I was fifteen
and so by this time, I'm twenty three, twenty four,
so you can imagine a little bit of a reputation
had developed around me, man. And so what that looked
like was with my brother and my wife relationship came
(25:15):
to surface. It was feared that if I was to
get out, you know, I would retaliate, and so she
in response, she was curious, you know, to make sure
I ain't get out. So when what she did was
she made statements and not only would damage it to me,
but they were damaging to other people that were loyal
(25:35):
to me as well. A couple of people who had
nothing to do with my cases were about to get
charged with having to do to do something with my cases.
But they ain't, you know, like I said, they ain't
have nothing to do with her, and so, you know,
so I've been caught up in this with her, and
so you know, so I've been caught up in this
like for destiation since I can remember, right, so you know,
(25:57):
I know how to come up with some vestris of
lehing else. And that's what that was what I came
up with.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
Man.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
You know, at the time, the logic was especially considering
one of the people that she was trying to implicate
on my cases. It was a due It was like
my brother, man, and we did have a lot of
loyalty between us, and so my thing was by all means,
I was going to assure it that, you know, my
wife wasn't gonna be able to do anything to jeopardize
(26:25):
nobody else on my only you know motive. Only uh
option in that situation was you know, you know, taking
negativity of course, but only option in that scenario was
to get out and do something to her and others
as well. And so when I got the gun smoking
in the county, that's death of bottle, uh, trying to
draw the attention, you know, to do that, but also
(26:45):
dart attention from cases away from my people all the
way to me. You know, I had paid people to
walk me out of the county, but unfortunately, you know,
when it came down to it, you know, they renigged
on me, man. And it was a desperacial situation from
his perception. So you know, one one desperate thing, then
(27:06):
to see me doing another desperate thing, man, And next
thing you know, I'm in the county jail shooting. That's
how that played out.
Speaker 3 (27:15):
You were you said you were shooting.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
Yeah, I ended up shooting a couple of shots at
one of the deputies. He you know, trying to get
away from me, man, and slapped the door on me. Man,
and uh, I get I shot at him.
Speaker 5 (27:29):
Yeah, So what made you stop returning fire then? Like,
why didn't like what stopped you from in the cliff
or whatever.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
Well, part of it was I had chased this man
down and the person who I who I shot at
ID Like I said, I ended up chasing him down
and I was sober, and so I was looking him
in the face. Man. You know, when I was in
the county jail by this time, probably seventeen months, and
it was seventeen hard months, you know, like I said,
I was I had to keep to myself, my wife,
(27:58):
messing with my brother and know everything that was going
on with my cases. And then it was just a
lot of pressure from being in that situation with my
life in general, right, and so yeah, man, it was
just it was it was. It was uh yeah, it was,
it was. It was.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
It was.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
It just made me think back to it a little bit, too,
but it was, uh yeah, you just made me think
back to it. Man. It was uh, you know, like
I say, man, one desperation, one desperate thing lead to another.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
Man.
Speaker 5 (28:29):
I'm curious how did they handle the situation, because I
imagine they weren't happy that you had a gun and
you shot at them, So like, did you go peacefully?
Did they come and like spray you or beat you?
Speaker 1 (28:40):
Like?
Speaker 3 (28:40):
How did that? How did that turn about?
Speaker 1 (28:44):
I forgot that's what you was asking too. I related myself,
man at at the moment of the other shooting that
let escape the tell my brother and another young lady
was outside in the truck. And so after I shot,
I had no plan of shooting. I had no fans,
and you know, it was just supposed to been somebody
walking me out. And you know, but after the shooting
(29:06):
all that and you know, the chaots and people running
around and stuff like that or whatever. I got to
thinking about my brother and the young lady who was outside,
and I was looking at the man who I was chasing,
the deputy I was chasing, And like I said, I
was about to say, I had been in the county
jail by that side like seventeen months, and of course
(29:26):
particularly took me months. I had quite a few ups
and downs times where they saying individual will come talk
to me, you know, uh in very effective ways, you know,
help me, you know, keep my bars the mature. So
I stopped myself from shooting, you know what I mean.
I stopped myself by just reflecting on who it was right,
but then also thinking about my people, you know, sitting
(29:49):
outside in the vehicle but would have been my getaway
vehicle and not knowing what was going on. So I
put the gun down, I jammed the God I got
the gun jam myself, and then I put it down
and I just started speaking to the deputy like, you know, man,
mother fucker put you in the situation. You know, man,
you know, I gotta do what I gotta do. Man,
you know. And he caught on and got up on
(30:09):
his feet, and he took over the situation. He made
sure didn't nobody because you know, you had a couple
of guards to uh wanted the cause of the body
in the arm, that's proba can imagine. But he stopped
all that, you know what I mean, because he understood,
like you know, I stopped myself, so he made sure
you know, uh, well ship after that man, everything was handled,
I guess instead professionally responsible, but you know it was
(30:32):
some embarrassment on the prosecutions. On the prosecution side. That's
why they you know, they made sure they are swept
it out of the world real quick. Actually, my wife,
she she was charged with, ain't invented me in that incident.
But in all actuality she would the state start witness
she didn't even have that. She wasn't even there, you
know what I mean. But they were so eager to
(30:54):
get it out at the line life if they beheaded
after guilty for them, gave it to time for they
new s. But you know that just I guess going
to show you know, the level they did the preparision
or whatever. But yeah, that's what happened though.
Speaker 3 (31:09):
Man, that's pretty why, Yeah, that's one.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
Of the ones. You know, when I look back, I
take them to what to myself, caught the competed man.
You don't see how you job obviously, as you know,
you know, being a grown man looking back and saying,
sometimes they don't look exactly how they look, you know,
from a different perspective man. And sometimes I look at
(31:34):
some of the decisions I made now I find myself wondering, like, man,
what were you thinking? Man? You know, and uh, you know,
but then at the same time, I believe in my
heart of hearts that even as crazy as as a
lot of situations look and sound crazy as they were.
You know, when I weigh well other options, you know,
(31:57):
I understood at the time that they have or whatever. Right,
you know, I did the best I could, man, you know,
so I did the best of.
Speaker 3 (32:05):
A mass, you know, right right.
Speaker 5 (32:10):
I'm curious when did you meet Auto? Like, how did
you guys meet? Because I don't know if you realize
this or not, but he used to be part of
the A B. So when he told me about y'all,
is like, really, you know, because I mean, you know,
because I Auto was Auto that I mean, he didn't care,
you know, But I'm like, he used to be in
(32:31):
the AB, so kind.
Speaker 3 (32:32):
Of like see me for a surprise.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
Yeah, I'm one of them people. Man. Even though I
don't talk a lot, I do my understandings allows me
to not be biased towards other people. Hold on, what's
up looking at myself? You're not to be biased towards
other people. So if you present yourself open to me,
you know I'm gonna respond. You know, man, be able
to communicate with you on whatever lever will you present
(32:56):
yourself as right? And when I'm meant otto, man, I
was in account his uh his he had a tattoo
at the time, and I remember they kept raiding and
his stuff. Man, and uh he came into county at
the time. When I met him, I was just in
the paper from a dude Kinna they had uh, they
had to give a dude the deal. We had a
(33:17):
raper and they dropped his raid to become a witness
to get this meet. And it was a dude another
another white brother man brig beautiful song named Paula Kilbert.
He he knew one of my foster parents. Man. And
when I them came in there one time, he introduced
us and we just get it up in a dry
(33:40):
crazy sense of humor. Right, So that that was man
kind of plighting bool. And then we got cool man.
It was tomorrow the situations and he was giving me
input on mine. But then I saw him again, uh
two different times over two more times over the years
and isolation, and it was always man, keep your head up, man,
(34:04):
you know what I mean. It was always respect and
you know, I like to believe a little bit of understanding,
you know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (34:09):
You know so uh mm did he did he ever
talk about his cases with you?
Speaker 1 (34:15):
Like?
Speaker 3 (34:15):
Did you know he was also a serial unliver like yourself?
Speaker 2 (34:18):
Like?
Speaker 3 (34:18):
Did you know? Did you know that?
Speaker 1 (34:21):
I know, I knew. I knew about the one with
his uh I want to say his wife and his
daughter or something, the one he just recently told, But
nobody was at some of that effect. I knew about that,
but not not. I mean, you know, of course I
heard the rumors, but I've never really uh, I don't
(34:44):
know how to explain him, and I've never really been
big on other people's business.
Speaker 3 (34:48):
You know, so right, especially in prison, I hear that.
Speaker 1 (34:52):
No, No, I'm sorry, we need to back it up
for a minute. What body.
Speaker 3 (35:01):
You said with the mother and daughter?
Speaker 1 (35:04):
Yeah, the last thing he told me was something about
somebody wrote I think the daughter wrote him, or the
daughter of the mother. I hope I misrepresented somebody's situation.
But somebody had wrote him, and it was a it
was a body I think of his wife or his
ex wife or something along those lines, who have been
uh yeah, told him where it was at after so
(35:27):
many years.
Speaker 3 (35:30):
Oh, so they were asking him if he was responsible, right,
and he.
Speaker 1 (35:35):
Had help Broca he was so explained to me y'all relationship,
you know, how y'all were whichever doing on on the podcast,
and how he was closing cases or whatever. But the
last time we spoke spoke, he had told me that
somebody's daughter had wrote him and asked him for their
mother and that he had, you know, uh, reached out
(36:01):
and basically complied and how you know, it was a
little bit off his chest. I don't know if I'm
saying it right, but because it's been a minute, you
probably are.
Speaker 3 (36:11):
That's probably the one that he was telling us had
written him and he wasn't sure who it was, right right?
Speaker 1 (36:16):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (36:17):
Do you remember that now?
Speaker 1 (36:19):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (36:19):
Do you remember him mentioning that that's crazy?
Speaker 2 (36:25):
Did Andrew tell you the last words he said to us?
Speaker 1 (36:32):
Then? I can thoroughly remember. That was it? That was
it right there? That's what the last words he told.
Speaker 3 (36:38):
The last thing he said to us was I love
you guys to death.
Speaker 1 (36:43):
Oh wow, you said your last words? He said, yeah.
Speaker 3 (36:51):
Yeah, it's kind of weird.
Speaker 5 (36:54):
I don't know if he knew like he was dying
or dough or you know, like and because I wondered
that because it was out of no area, I know he.
Speaker 1 (37:04):
Had his interest too, because one of the last incidents
I remember I have in my mind, I mean, were
both at the medical unit. I go over there to
get blood pressure. He was he had been over there
a few times, and you know, you know, it's early
in the morning, guys from different units, different races, people
don't want to talk to each other, and this dude
(37:25):
come in jokes.
Speaker 3 (37:28):
You have one, yeah, dues that they don't even like you.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
I'm like, man, it's just crazy. Man, I can't even
say what he said. You know, you just don't really
know he said crazy.
Speaker 5 (37:45):
Oh yeah, he would always you always tell me like
like racial jokes and like gay jokes and then like
just like damn yeah, Okay, all right, sounds good. I
know it's like a no no in prison right to
like tell each other about tell each other about like
each other's crimes or whatever. Right, So you guys probably
(38:06):
never like discussed your crimes.
Speaker 3 (38:08):
Right, No, no, not at all? Okay.
Speaker 5 (38:11):
I wasn't sure Ivada was the type of dude to
like discuss it with other inmates and like try to
get off because he did with me, but maybe he
felt more comfortable with me than he did other inmates.
Speaker 1 (38:23):
People really don't talk about it. I mean, I can
imagine something like their children. It'd be a situational it
was based on like because you would hear some dudes
talk about their cases. Who uh, and it won't even
matter if they got shorter A long time now, I
used to be said, I think it's more so about
their disposition towards their situation. You got some dudes that
(38:45):
to talk about what they went through, you know, you know,
for the for the mere taking conversation or to make
a point or whatever, right because their case is over with,
or you know, because it wasn't as serious, or you know,
something along those lines. But then you got guys who
won't say nothing even though their case might be over
and that be something that'd be more attributed to, you know,
(39:06):
their character, their personality. But in an overall sense, I
would say, no, you know, I don't really talk too
much period myself. Right, I don't I get personal with
a you know, a guy or whatever. Man. But I
tainted my my reasons for opening up to people. So
(39:26):
if I can, you know, do share some positive which
will not or you know, uh, you know things like that.
I spend a lot of time to myself, you know,
personal or whatever. But yeah, you know, you got different
dudes here to talk about it, because it might just like,
for example, I facilitated manhood program and we we you know,
we get very personal and you know, you got guys
(39:47):
who will share about their lives more in depth than others.
You know, Uh, what's your clue? You know some of
the things they did in the streets to emphasize a
point of how they looked at life or why they
did what they did and whatever. But it's only the
less mature ones man who uh who talk about it,
you know, just for the second talking about it, you know,
like it's something to glorify or they competing with something,
(40:11):
you know, they think somebody think about it or some
like that or whatever. Yeah, it's typically it's more sort
no no than anything.
Speaker 3 (40:18):
Are you in a MAX prison right now?
Speaker 1 (40:20):
No, I'm in the uh right up under Max's uh
club security number three security.
Speaker 3 (40:29):
Yeah, so is that still twenty three one?
Speaker 1 (40:33):
No?
Speaker 3 (40:33):
No, but we out all they here, Okay, it's.
Speaker 1 (40:36):
Uh yeah, pretty much out there. H For most of
my time though I've been uh, I've been isolated for
most of the time I've been down.
Speaker 3 (40:50):
Is that because you're active, like you're on an active.
Speaker 1 (40:55):
No, it's just you know, for me, it's just because
of my charges. You know, even though I did, you know,
those things as a kid, they still held against me.
You know, I'm I don't even have a fight on
my record, you know, and I'm I was supposed to have
been deemed one of the most violent in the state,
you know, since straight to supermacs you know, uh, you know,
take it through all types of loopholes and bears, you
(41:17):
know what I mean. But I haven't even got a
fight on my record, man, and they still still you know,
find a way to isolate me, finding reason to keep
me uncomfortable and keep me you know, the fact that.
Speaker 3 (41:31):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, do you still get banging there?
Speaker 1 (41:35):
No, No, I've left that alone man, years ago. Man, Uh,
it's been over twenty years, and I still you know,
I have times when you know, I might get it
like the population might be more of what I what
I come from, right like it might be more of
them than anything or whatever. Then I still had a reputation,
So I use that to say something to try to
(41:57):
you know, uh, you know, uh, you know, living a
positive contribution to you know, the way days maybe going
to something like that, but other than that, I don't
mess with that at all.
Speaker 5 (42:11):
So I'm curious, like, let's say you already get out
of prison today, and you were like a gang prevention specialist, Like,
what would you do to say, like somebody that was
your age, say like fifteen years old, no mother, no father,
gang banging on the streets. Like what would what would
(42:32):
be your go to like tools and resources to try
to help them to not end up like you did?
Speaker 3 (42:37):
You know, well, my main tool would be.
Speaker 1 (42:42):
My experiences, you know, when I was when I was
going through So I came to prison at seventeen, and
I was around around men, right, and I never had
a father, never really had a brother, you know, I
mean not in the traditional sense, but I and I
(43:03):
even though I was, you know, a self will mail, right,
I definitely look to other men, you know, will be
man for examples and things of that nature. The ones
that I listened to over the years, the ones that
were effective in reaching me were the ones that I
was able to identify part of my own self. And
(43:25):
you know, what they had, what they said, even what
they did when when they wasn't even talking to me
directly communicated to me more loudly because I identify with
them or in them, if they understand to a certain extent,
because they come fronded. So with that being said, one
of my approaches will be my experiences, you know, but
it would also be more so how I went through
(43:47):
all those things and whatever my position would be to
approach them how you know, you got to be a
guy for me to be a bit talk to them,
you know, in the first place, you know what I mean,
with my sanity, like I said, with my life, you know,
still attacking things of that nature. But I would go
on to use my experiences and lessons from my experiences,
but more so my experiences themselves to point out like man,
(44:09):
I done did it? You know, I come from it
throwing through and I ain't doing for the reasons that
most people doing it for image and reputation. I did
it because I was for real about it, trying to
make a life out of it. So that make it
a little bit more deeper, more intimate. And I did
it enough, as deep and as intimate enough to know
that it's some boards shit, you know, from the expectations
(44:31):
of camaraderie. So you know, the expectation that living this
life you're gonna somehow get it life out of you know,
living this life, right, it don't match up, you know
what I mean? And you know, my life, you know
shows pools that you know, uh were vividly than anything,
you know what I mean. It's people who actually believe
(44:52):
that way life can be made out of the streets.
And I'm and i'm you know, my life pools not
just my experiences, but I know, you know, individuals who
had money or getting you know, gang bang, you know,
just different lanes and you know, different lanes and uh
you know, uh perspectives. Right, I've seen all in the
(45:12):
same way, you know, either in prison, either dead physically
or did somewhere mentally you know, psychologically. And so I
would use all that, you know, my first hand experiences,
man to uh make that connection, you know, uh, to
emphasize the point like shit and just what you're about
(45:34):
to do. You might as well get you signed up
for some ball man, you know, you sannd them. You
know this is walking this lifestyles a walking contradition, you know.
But then I would go on to sharm don't like
options on what they could potentially be in ways that
I wasn't shown had i'd have been, you know, had
(45:54):
it been exposed to me that just because I was young,
black and male, I didn't have to go through with
Everybody was telling me how if I'd been exposed to
those type of things, just to thinking that, man, you
ain't necessarily got to go through this, you know what
I mean, and how they've been exposed to it the
right way, the effective way, right, you know, my outcome
would have been in life, getting you know, different or whatever.
(46:15):
So you know that would be my approach, man, to
help them see that. You know, their options are more
than just uh, you know, sustration, you know, gang bang
and selling dope or you know, all that little limited
stuff to go with that limited dysfunctional stuff to go
with that lifestyle. You know what I mean. And it
(46:36):
just so happens that you know, I know how to
speak that language. I'm not to speak it in a
way where it's effective, man, you know, with making the connection,
but also you know, uh, cutting on the life man.
You know, in some in a person's mind, you know,
to like I said, what their options are, because at
the end of the day, that's what it bought down
(46:56):
to a lot of those individuals where they mail or female,
they out there and doing what they're doing because they
are convinced, to some extent or another that go what
they can be in life, what they can and can't
have in life. It's all said and determined, and in
a lot of sense it is when you really break
this society down in terms of its cast structure. Right,
(47:19):
it is right. But at the same time, what I
realized from my experience is that the energy that I
put in doing all that stuff I did out in
the streets, gang banging and shut a dog marking for hire,
all that that same energy had I'd have been, you know,
focusing on school, focusing on other things, that same energy
could have It should have rendered me, you know, a
(47:41):
better life. Man. It didn't because I wasn't exposed to
that line of thinking that you know that those possibilities. Man.
So that's a lot of what I would what I
would do different man, in terms of reaching a younger
version of me, and you know, just helping them understand
that what we call the gang a gang, it's about
(48:02):
something much bigger than trying to manipulate people or you know,
a quick you know, come up with some ship like
that or whatever. You know, it's really about.
Speaker 5 (48:10):
Life right right. Somebody just asked, do you try and
help kids now? Young kids?
Speaker 1 (48:16):
Now? Yeah? Uh, Like I said, I do my manhood
programs in here, but them around for growth and development.
It's not what it should be what you would think
it it'd be for here as far as on the streets.
But I've been trying for years to put my books
and programs out on the streets. But it's been a challenge, man,
connecting with you know, the right people. But yeah, that's
(48:40):
my commitment man to uh, that's what keep me going
every day, you know, to uh, I mean, I do
you know, it's it's somebody you know, reaching almost every
day man, But to the you know, to the degree
and the impact that I aspired and may I haven't yet,
but that's definitely my focus. That's definitely my focus.
Speaker 4 (49:00):
Keep your head up, keep trying to be impactful, Keep
trying to show people that this is where they need
to be. And hey, I'm sure this won't be the
last time I chat at you, but I got a
boy that I need to go work out, so it was.
Speaker 2 (49:19):
It will impactful for me. Hear your story.
Speaker 4 (49:24):
Just uh, just keep fighting man. Just keep fighting for others, Andrew,
I mean, I'm out.
Speaker 5 (49:32):
Later in the future, I'd like to do some more
lives because I'd like to talk specifically about the Supermax
because it was Craig me if I'm wrong, but it
was Lucasville, right, No, that's actually uh Youngstown, Ohio, Ohio.
Speaker 3 (49:51):
Oh, that's that's the that's the Superman's.
Speaker 1 (49:54):
Yeah, Lucasville was the Max.
Speaker 3 (49:57):
I thought it was Okay, for some reason, I thought
it was vice vers.
Speaker 5 (50:00):
So that that Lucasville was the super Max, and then
the Max is Youngstown.
Speaker 3 (50:06):
Okay, how many years did you get again?
Speaker 1 (50:10):
Fifty one?
Speaker 5 (50:11):
Yeah, he got one hundred and fifty one years. All right, Well,
I think we could probably call it good for tonight. Yeah,
thank you so much. I'm gonna email you tonight and
I'm gonna release our interview, like I said, in like
two and a half three weeks, and then we can
do another live. We can do maybe like one one
once a month if you're cool with that, like we
(50:32):
were doing with Auto.
Speaker 3 (50:36):
Okay, all right, you have a good night. Okay, Okay,
I have a good night.
Speaker 1 (50:40):
I appreciate your time.
Speaker 3 (50:41):
All right, take care
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