August 9, 2023 • 40 mins
We were joined by Enocha Edenfield to talk about the haunted history of Savannah, Georgia. This city is usually ranked at the top of everyone's spookiest cities list and rightfulyl so. We also talk about the ghost tourism industry and what we think could be changed within it to make sure everyone beenifts.
Note we had techincal difficulties on this episode and that is why Metra sounds different
Visit Enocha online:
https://enochaedenfieldtours.com/
Follow Enocha on social media:
https://www.instagram.com/eenieedenfield/
All of our links: Including NEW sponsor The Black Stuff!
https://linktr.ee/UnrefinedPodcast
Note we had techincal difficulties on this episode and that is why Metra sounds different
Visit Enocha online:
https://enochaedenfieldtours.com/
Follow Enocha on social media:
https://www.instagram.com/eenieedenfield/
All of our links: Including NEW sponsor The Black Stuff!
https://linktr.ee/UnrefinedPodcast
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hey, guys, it's BJN.Before we get into the newest episode of
Unrefined, let's hear from our goodfriend Brian over at the Necronomicast. He's
going to tell you a little bitabout his show from Omaha, Nebraska,
the capital city of the historic hauntedHeartland. My name is Brian Corey,
and I invite you to listen tomy show, The Necronomic Cast. Every
(00:23):
episode, it is my pleasure tobring you the finest in creepy conversations with
filmmakers, actors, television personalities andauthors, musicians, scientists, and highly
sought after experts, where we explorethe mysteries of the paranormal, true crime,
and all subjects that inspire what wesee in the darkened theater. So
(00:45):
sit back, relax, dim thelights as we journey together to a place
where monsters dwell, where spirits walkamong the living, and darkness shapes our
imaginations. Available everywhere you go forpodcast entertainment, join me for every episode
of Necronomcast, where I bring youthe horror of Hollywood and beyond. All
(01:21):
Right, guys, welcome back.It is another episode of Unrefined for you.
Bja is my name, with meas always is Metra and we really
go all out trying to make surethat we are on for you guys,
because we had some technical difficulty,but we through and we are here for
you and it is going to begood for episode number two hundred and five.
(01:42):
Thank you guys for joining us.And as always, if you head
over to the description of this episode, you'll be able to get to all
of our links so that you canfollow us on social media. If you're
not already doing so, appreciate everybodywho is. You can also go to
anywhere you're listening to this podcast dropus a review and a rating. Also,
big thank you to the sponsor ofthis episode, The black Stuff handmade
(02:06):
soap that is made in Ireland.Guys, So if you want to smell
like an irishman, you need thissoap and who doesn't, right exactly who
doesn't. So if you want todo that, you need this soap and
you need to go get it rightnow. The link is in the description
of this episode. Use code unrefined. You'll say fifteen percent on your first
order with the black Stuff. Anyway, we are here, we are ready,
(02:30):
and we have a special guest forus tonight. We love exploring spooky
places all around the United States,and one place that we've never gotten a
chance to really touch on that muchis Savannah, Georgia. And we are
here with Nica Edinfield, and sheis a well, why don't you tell
(02:52):
Why don't you tell the audience?Why don't you tell the audience what exactly
you do? I usually just saythat I'm a fan of all things Savannah,
Georgia and spooky, because that kindof covers everything. But I am
a recovering journalist and I love researchingSavannah's history and it's lore. Okay,
(03:13):
that's awesome. So have you Areyou native to Savannah? Not originally.
I moved here from the Florida Panhandle. Okay. I grew up close to
Panama City, Florida. I movedhere in twenty ten. Okay, alright.
Cool. Florida's got a little bitof interesting spooky history too with it,
though, like Saint Augustine and placeslike that, even way down there,
(03:36):
and the Panhandle's got some interesting storiesand stuff, so you've kind of
grown up in it, and that'sreally really cool. The southern part of
the United States has interesting haunted historyin general. Some of it I think
like, maybe isn't handled as well, and I think that you would agree
with that. But if you guyslisten, you guys, we will drop
(03:59):
the lane to Aneca's TikTok and herother socials too, and you can go
follow her content because it is reallygood. It's top notch, it's respectful,
it is like history forward, andthen it embraces the paranormal as well,
so you guys can go follow herthere. So, Anika, what
really, what kind of got youstarted in? Uh? In the paranormal?
(04:25):
Well? Growing up? I grewup in an evangelical household during the
Satanic Panic, and I was notallowed to believe in ghosts. My dad
said that if anybody says that they'veseen a ghost, that they've actually seen
a demon. And I'm thinking,yeah, that's not going to traumatize me
at all. That's but you know, I always had an interest in ghosts.
(04:50):
It was kind of like my littleway of rebelling. But when I
graduated from high school and moved toPensacola, Florida, I went to the
Universe Day West Florida and Pensacola isanother very haunted city. So I start
hearing all these stories about how thecity's very haunted, and you start to
research a little bit of that.And then when I left there, I
(05:13):
said, I'm remember covering journalist.I was working as a editor for a
magazine, Okay, and that waslocated in Port Saint Joe, Florida.
Another very haunted place, and it'sa teeny chinatown in the middle of Florid
Payanhandle and unless you have a reasonto go there, you've probably never heard
of it. But while I wasthere, I was working on the October
(05:38):
issue for the magazine, and Ireached out to a paranormal investigation group and
asked if I could tag along onan investigation, and they were going to
Marianna, Florida. Marianna is anothervery haunted place, but they were going
to investigate a place called the BellamyBridge. And if you've been around the
spooky side of TikTok for a whileand ended up on any count that talks
(06:00):
about spooky Florida, they've all talkedabout the Bellamy Bridge. Yeah, it
sounds familiar. There's a lot oflegends to it, and it's one of
those places that has so many legendsand there's so many variations on it.
But supposedly it's haunted by this womannamed Elizabeth Bellamy, and so we go
down there. Today there is atrail, a public trail that will take
you there. But back then,this is the early to mid two thousands,
(06:26):
there was not a trail and theyhad to ask for permission to go
there because it was on private property. And I drunk my friend Meg with
me because I was like, Idon't know these people and We're going to
the middle of nowhere and I'm notdying by myself. Yeah, safety first,
yes, So she came with meand we were just there to observe,
weren't taking part in the investigation,and they had all their equipment out
(06:51):
there, sitting next to the bridge, trying to get Elizabeth or anybody to
talk to them. My friend Magand I are standing far away from them
and we're just talking. As we'retalking, my friend Meg stops and asked
me, did you hear that?I didn't hear anything. So we keep
talking, and then after a littlewhile I heard something and I said,
(07:14):
Meg, when you asked me ifI heard something, did it sound like
a metal on metal clinking noise?And she said yeah. I said,
great, I just heard that.Too. Let's go back to the group.
We do not Yeah, we donot want anything spooken us. That's
right. We were power in numberswhen it comes to paramormal investigating, right,
yeah. Feature, and I learnedthat the hard way and the more
(07:36):
people, the safer you feel andthe less scared you feel. I think.
So that brings us to kind oflike what you do now, speaking
of you know, going out ingroups and everything. You do historic ghost
tours all around the city of Savannah, Georgia, which has a very interesting
history. You had sent and inour email back and forth about how some
(08:01):
something that that lends to the thehistory of Savannah and the architecture. Yeah.
So Savannah is famously a city builton it's dead, and that is
not unusual. A lot of oldcities are. Yeah, we just advertise
it more. That's that's part ofthe dark tourism draw to Savannah. City
(08:26):
builds on it's dead. And apparentlyanywhere you did you can find bodies,
which also is not that unusual foran old city. Yeah, but because
that has been so overhyped, wedo not have a we have an archaeology
ordnance, but it's not the best. Uh, And anytime we have new
(08:50):
construction. We're still a developing city. We've got a big tourism boom.
So we've got a lot of newconstruction right now. Uh, and bones
are being found. Oh okay,Well, the Archaeologic Archaeological Archaeological Ordinance only
applies to city property. It doesnot apply to private property. Okay,
(09:13):
so private property if they find bones, Oh well, it's up to them.
Do they contact somebody and say,hey, we found bones here,
Maybe we need to prob it inan archaeologist or do we just throw them
in the dumpster or reburied. That'shorrible, That is horrible. That's not
cool. So I did actually talkto somebody at city Hall recent life for
(09:35):
an article that I'm writing, andshe said that isn't a review period and
that it's going to be beaten broughtback to the city Council to see how
the archaeologians Archaeology Ordinance has worked andhow it hasn't worked, and what can
be done to make it better.How would they know if it was like
(09:56):
a like a semi not fresh,because I mean, but it could have
been buried few years ago and hereare some bones compared to this was buried
one hundred years ago. How wouldsomebody know really, you know, it
could be a real crime scene,right, and then they're like, oh,
well I can just throw this away. Yeah. But yeah, and
when I talk about it, becauseI've talked about it on my TikTok,
(10:18):
like oh, they found bones here, And I get so many comments from
people who are like, oh,yes, they found bones. You can
find bones all around Savana, Likewhy don't you care more? Like,
yeah, that's rights something that peopleshould be looking into. Yeah, And
it's not just bones, it's otherthings. Like this city was founded,
it was colonized in seventeen thirty three, but there have been indigenous people living
(10:39):
here for thousand years. Yeah,right, so I mean and I think,
well, I mean obviously that's that'sthe case with most of the United
States, you know, like,you know, the first people in the
colonies came, but there were quitea few people living here beforehand, and
we just started building on top ofthings that we don't even know what we
were building on, you know whatI mean. It's like, well,
(11:01):
it's like, well, Saint LouisIs Mound city, right, because of
all the mounds for the Native Americanburial ground, right, so like it's
just crazy and then we'll get anickname. And I think that that's just
insane to me. But it's it'svery it's very interesting that you say that.
I don't know if you happen tohave listened to it. I had
(11:22):
addressed it on my TikTok page.But there was a very interesting episode of
This American Life, which is NPR, and so yeah, so I'm assuming
you heard that one, and itwas all about the dark tourism industry and
they talked about how, you know, very similar to what you're saying,
Like, you know, it's madelike we're making famous of like these legends
(11:43):
and things like that, but there'sreally like a lack of human empathy that
goes into it as well, whichis a huge concern I think when you
are doing like these type of ghosttours, especially in an area like you
know the sound, I mean,it doesn't matter where you are. Like,
ghost tours are based on a lotof the stories are based on tragedy,
(12:05):
you know what I mean, AndI think that making light of the
tragedies is probably not the best idea. Yeah, the things that I make
light of on my tour are usuallycheating spouses getting what they deserve. But
yeah, like you can talk aboutvery serious subjects. You can talk about
(12:28):
like issues of sexual assault and mentalhealth and even the transatlantic slave trade,
and you can talk about those thingson your tour and address them in a
respectful way while also sharing how horrifyingthe conditions were without making light of them.
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely, itwasn't Metra didn't. You just shared
(12:52):
an article with me the other daythat a couple unknowingly bought like a house
in Texas, right, and theyfound that What was the story on that
they put me on the spot.I don't know. I think in twenty
fourteen, they bought this old propertythat was going to be like the retirement
(13:13):
property slash project, and they didn'trealize it was actually it had a plaque
in front of it. I don'tknow if it was an actual historic plaque
or it was just a plaque somebodyhad put there saying what the house was
and the history and whatever. Andthere was you know, there were slaves
there and everything, and they wantedto do more research not only on the
people that lived there, but theslaves that live there too, because you
(13:35):
seemed to overlook a lot of thatstuff and they wanted they turned the whole
place to a museum. I guessit. I don't know if it just
opened or what. I don't know, like what, but you can go
there at the museum, you cantake wedding pictures there, and you can
learn the history of not only thefamily, but the slaves that lived there
too, so that they're not forgotten, you know, And they're still uncovering
(13:56):
a lot of the information from theslaves because you know, there's just not
good records on that stuff, youknow, right, Yeah? Is that
something that you run into a lotwhen you are looking into the history and
Savannah as like the records of likethe enslaved people and things like that.
So there is there's been a hugepivot in Savannah within the last ten years.
(14:18):
You are seeing more of these housemuseums dedicate space and talk about the
enslaved people who lived and worked thereand what their daily lives were like Okay,
Owen's Thomas House. It is afantastic example of that. I love
that place because they have gone backthrough and research everyone who lived there,
(14:39):
not just the rich white people,but they went back and research the enslaved
people. Found some of their names, and they took the carriage house slash
enslave quarters behind the home and theyrenovated that back to period accuracy. So
you have a complete idea of whatit would have been like to be in
(15:00):
slave person in Savannah because a lotof people, when you think of enslavement,
you think about plantations, and therewere certainly plantations around Savannah. Most
of those aren't standing anymore, mostof them have burned down. Yeah,
but yeah, being being an enslavedperson in a city was different from being
in a slave person on a plantation. No less horrific, just different.
(15:22):
And the Owens Thomas House and nowthe Davenport House and a few other places
are doing a really good job ofeducating people on that. Okay, okay,
So you're doing your tours and everythinglike that, why don't you give
us a little like where do ifsomeone's going to go on your tour,
where are you taking them? Areyou taking them all around like Savannah?
(15:43):
Are you taking them to all likethe places that you're talking about, or
is it more like a downtown area? So my license only applies to historic
downtown. It's a walking tour,not a driving tour. So I've only
got you for an hour and ahalf and there's only so far we can
go. Those are the best ones, though, Honestly, I love the
walking tours, especially when it's beautifuloutside. Though you must be taught right
(16:07):
now, Like, I don't knowhow you're doing that. I've got I've
got a really good neck fan.But I've got four different routes, which
keeps things interesting for people, Likeif somebody went on one tour and then
want to book me for another tour, I can take them too completely different
places. But it also keeps mefrom getting bored and getting in a rut
(16:30):
and just reciting these stories you know, over and over again. You know,
Mitra Nostalgia is a big seller thesedays. Who doesn't love a walk
down memory lane? You know,I've basically been listening to the same exact
music since I was in high school. That really doesn't chuck me. While
some of us can't let go ofthe past, it is time to let
go of some of those things,yeah, like rap rock. Never know
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Visit them online now at the blackStuff dot com and tell them bj
Metris site. You like obviously likeyou are very like you know, very
history forward and your tours and everythinglike that, but there's also kind of
like, you know, you've gotto be entertaining. You know, you've
got a group of people out thereand everything, so there is like an
entertainment aspect to it too. Sowhat would you say, Like, you
(18:00):
know, your ratio is between,like I guess, educational and then entertaining.
So usually I will set all ofmy stories up with history, like
I will describe the history. Likelet's say we are going by the Keyhoe
House, which is a historic innhere in Savannah. I'm going to tell
you who William Keyhoe is, whyhe ended up building that home, some
(18:22):
of the architectural details that he putinto the home, what his family life
was like. Uh, and thenI'll talk about what happened to the home
after the family moved out, howit was a boarding house for a while,
and it was also a funeral homefor a little while, and then
it was sold to Joe Nameth fora little bit. Jill wait, go
back yo name like the football player. Okay, So I'll set up all
(18:48):
of this history, and then I'lltalk about how today it's an end and
children are not allowed there. It'san adult's only end, if they've got
that on their website, But peoplewho stay there often here children playing in
the hallway. Sometimes people have claimedto hear a baby cry and other parts
(19:10):
of the home, and if theysay anything to the front desk clerk,
the front desk clerk has to tellthem. Those are ghost kids. If
you want them to be quiet,you're going to have to tell them yourself,
which I mean you can be politeto ghost and you can ask them.
You listen trying to get a littlebit of rest here, Can you
please just quiet down for a littlebit, or at least just settle down
for a minute, like at leasttill I'm like sound asleep, and you're
(19:32):
not going to disturb me while I'mdoing that. So what is I would
say, what is your favorite Savannahghost story to tell? That's like asked
me to pick a favorite child.I oh God, it really depends on
the day and my mood and howthings are feeling downtown, because I sometimes
(19:57):
feel like some of the ghosts,like the energy around some places changes a
little bit. So sometimes I'm like, oh, like, we should probably
not stop here, Like everything's feelingnot copasetic, so let's just keep moving.
We'll talk about something else, okay. But I love talking about Alice
(20:19):
Riley, who was the first womanexecuted for murder in the Colony of Georgia.
Okay, And she's another one thoselegends that has a lot of myth
that sprung up around the fact andThere are a lot of unknowns with that
(20:40):
case as well, because that happenedin the mid seventeen thirties in Savannah,
so we don't have all the bestdocumentation on it, and I think a
lot of stories have been made uparound some of those gaps, right,
Okay, all right. I thinkthat that tends to happen a lot,
especially when you go back far enough, because you know, it's kind of
(21:03):
like, you know, people justtalking and then one thing gets said and
then that becomes fact and everything.So that must be really tough for you
to kind of like decipher through allthat. Yeah, but we are really
lucky that Savannah has a lot ofwell documented history. Savannah's the first colonized
city in Georgia, so if youwalk through Colonial Park Cemetery, you'll see
(21:27):
a lot of historic plaques for youknow, George's first, this, George's
first, that all these people whoare buried there, George's first historian is
buried in Colonial Park Cemetery. Andour Courthouse, our modern, modern and
quotation marks courthouse was built in theearly nineteen hundreds and it was designed to
have a city archives in it.So we have a lot of really well
(21:52):
documented history here and we're very fortunatefor that. Yeah, no kidding.
I think a lot of the thingsthat we come across, especially with paranormal
is trying to track down the historyof whether it's a building or the people
who were in the building and stufflike that. So it's it's nice to
see that there is this, uh, this passion for history and that people
(22:14):
want to be able to tell thestories and in the correct manner and everything
like that. What's your favorite what'syour favorite place to go to in Savannah?
Like is do you have like afavorite spooky spot that you just like,
this is like my my home base. Uh? I really like the
playground back behind Colonial Park Cemetery.Yes, we have a playground. Yeah
(22:37):
all right, yea ellaborate on thatplease, There is a playground that you
like going to behind a cemetery,just you know, normal Savannah things regular.
So where the playground is behind thecemetery. That actually started off at
a plant nursery because when Colonial ParkCemetery was an active cemetery, they would
(23:00):
cultivate flowering trees and bushes in thatplant in our tree to replant in the
cemetery, you know, cover upsome in the celty composition that was a
problem, okay, and make ita prettier place for people to come and
visit their loved ones. And theneventually a playground was built there. Okay,
okay, because Savannah. Yeah,hey, listen, there's a there's
(23:21):
a big park here in Albany thatwe've been to in Albany, New York.
Not Albany, Georgia, Albany,New York that apparently allegedly has a
whole bunch of bodies underneath it becausethey said that they exhume them, but
nobody's quite sure if they actually didor not. So now you just have
a giant, beautiful park in themiddle of the city of Albany that may
or may not have been a cemeteryor something. That's nice. I think
(23:47):
it's so common though, right,Like I think, yeah, that's what
we've discovered, right, Mitra thatas we're kind of researching a lot of
these places, like they're one herein San Antonio too. Oh, that's
right, that's right, Yeah,we'll be there. What was the park
we walked through in St. Louistoo? I thought so that they said
that that also like used to bea cemetery, but they weren't sure,
(24:08):
are they would buried all the peoplelike they used to bury their dead there
or something like, Yeah, Idon't remember what that was called. My
facts are off right now. It'sabout it, So all right, tell
us more about the spooky cemetery playgroundthat you like to go to. It
was just totally normal for us,right, yes, totally normal things.
Yeah, so it is. Itis a haunted playground, as you can
(24:32):
imagine, being right next to acemetery. Yeah. After Colonial Park Cemetery
closed in eighteen fifty three, Uh, the city kind of left it.
They did intend to actually develop thatand build a courthouse there, which didn't
work out. But after they leftit, the cemetery was just kind of
(24:55):
open for anyone to do anything there. They did have to problems with grave
robbing, which is fun, andthen kids would use it as a playground.
Kids used it as a playground fora long long time. I talked
to people who were children in thenineteen sixties growing up here and they're like,
oh, yeah, you used toplay in there all the time.
(25:15):
That was a great play Yeah,So it makes sense that both the cemetery
and the playground would be haunted byghost children, and a lot of people
have said that at night, ifyou take pictures at the playset, sometimes
you get childlike shapes on it.I'm going to be honest, a lot
of the photos that I've seen thatsupposedly have these ghost children in them are
(25:37):
orbs that could be dust or humidity, because it's Savannah and it's very human.
Yeah yeah, yeah, But Ihave walked past those swings at night
and watched the swings start to moveback and forth when there is no wind
blowing. Yeah. And I thinkthat anybody who's ever set foot in a
playground knows that, like, theswings aren't just gonna move. You know.
What I mean is that I'm preppierthan a playground at nighttime, just
(26:03):
in general. That's why it's inthe introduction for Are You Afraid of the
Dark, like yeah, and swingingexactly, yeah, exactly. Yeah.
So that's funny. So you've you'veseen the swings moving when you've gone through
there, that's incredible. I usedto foster dogs for a group parent Town
called Renegade Pause Rescue, and mylast foster was a cute little dog named
(26:27):
Xavier, but he had been abusedand so he was terrified of everything when
we got him, and as hisfoster mom, I'm trying to build up
his confidence, getting used to newthings and new people. And he was
doing really well, but I couldnever get used to kids. Okay,
the kid was calm and standing there, Xavier would be okay, but the
(26:48):
moment they start running around and actinglike a kid, Xavier's like, nope,
I'm out, no, thank you. But one day we were downtown
and I figured we'll look through ColoniaPark Cemetery. It's just a nice,
you know space, he'll have fun. Well, we got through the gate,
about three feet inside the gate andhe puts on the brakes. He's
like, no, not doing this, trying to coax some forward. Nothing's
(27:12):
working, and I'm like, that'sfun. We'll leave. And then like
a day or two later, Iwas back downtown live with Xavier and my
dog, Vash. And Vash isa good big foster brother, likes to
show the other dogs how to bea dog. I think the perfect Vash
will show Xavier how to walk throughClona Park Cemetery and we get through the
same gate a little farther inside.My dog was fine, Xavier was not.
(27:37):
He was completely freaking out, andI'm like, you know what,
buddy, it's fun. We'll justleave. And later one of the other
volunteers that I was talking to remindedme about the ghost children that people have
seen in the cemetery, and Iwas like, you know, I thought
that was it. I bet thatwas little Xavier can't even deal with living
children. He was not dealing withghost kids. The dogs away, Yeah,
(28:03):
right, yeah, we've talked aboutthat on the show before too.
So you have you had any otheranimals that you've been around that have kind
of like seen something like that orfelt something that you think not there.
But my dog Bash goes with mea lot of places. If you caught
any of my TikTok lives, he'susually with me, and every once in
(28:26):
a while he'll react to something.We walked out at some of the cemeteries
sometimes and he'll stop and he'll lookback at me when we see people like
you see them, and I'm like, yep, I see them. And
then sometimes he'll stop and look backat me like you see them, And
I said, no, I donot see that. It's just you,
this dog. But one night wewere down on River Street and it was
(28:52):
it was Christmas Eve a couple ofyears ago. It was nice and quiet
down there, and my dog doesthis particular little crowd and wiggle bouncing when
he sees another dog that he wantsto play with, and he started doing
that, but there was no onearound. O creepy. Yeah, that
is creepy. Is that the creepiestthing you think that's ever happened to you
(29:15):
in your history of doing things withghost tours and paranormal investigations. No,
that's not the creepiest thing. I'vehad a couple of creepy things happen.
That's trying to play with the ghostdog. That's nothing. What do you
what do you think is the creepiestthing that you've ever encountered? I had
something try to follow me home fromCorney Park Cemetery one night. Oh so
(29:37):
this place sounds like a like aball, Like we should really go there,
Like your dog won't go win,like you've got something following you home
swings or movings. Sounds wonderful.Yeah, it's it's a very active place
because it, like I said,it closed in eighteen fifty three. Yeah,
the city didn't really start actively takingcare of it until the nineteens sixties,
(30:00):
so you know, more than ahundred years after it was closed,
like people are taking advantage of itand doing a lot of stupid things there
and being really disrespectful, and yeah, that's going to leave behind some really
restless spirit. I guess, Oh, yeah, who what do you think
was trying to follow you home?So I'm not completely certain. I definitely
(30:25):
felt like it was a guy,but I was walking down the sidewalk.
It was after one of my ghosttours. I had parked on the other
side of the cemetery, and Ifelt confident walking down that sidewalk by myself
because that's a very popular spot fora lot of other ghost tours. And
we have twenty plus tour companies inSavannah that are just ghost tours, and
(30:45):
some of those will run multiple toursat a time, so you've got a
whole bunch of tours that will bearound Coloney Park Cemetery. So I figured
I wouldn't be by myself, eventhough it was late, but there was
no one out there. There wereno other ghost tours on the sidewalk that
night. And I'm walking down thesidewalk still still feeling confident, and I
(31:07):
get about halfway down, and Ifeel somebody behind me. Yeah, and
I think I'm about to get muggedbecause I used to work in news and
I work the overnight Jeff listening toa lot of weird scanner traffic get two
and three in the morning. SoI turn around to yell at whoever's following
me, okay, thinking that willsurprise them and then I can run away.
(31:30):
Well I turn around, No one'sthere. Oh so creepy. You
can feel that like presence, right, I can't see anybody, but I
feel somebody okay. And my friendRebecca had warned me about that. She
was like, girl, if you'regoing to a lot of pond of places,
(31:52):
ghosts are gonna get familiar with you. So I might try to get
a little too familiar and if thathappens, set your boundaries, remind them
that they cannot follow you, thatthey have to stay there. Yeah,
And so I had to do that, and that was the first time I
ever had to do that. Itwas a little terrifying. But whoever it
was listened and stayed put because thefarther I walked away, the smaller the
(32:14):
presence felt. Yeah, and yeah, I don't walk down that, so
I walked by myself anymore. Wow. Yeah, as you so really step
really got to you. Wow,that's pretty crazy. Yeah, you should
hear whenever we go into a hauntedplace like that is like the last thing
you hear is like the stern warningfrom Metra. She was like, you
follow us, you are not allowedto do that. I remember you did
(32:37):
that. We were coming out ofthat one basement and you turned around and
you were like, by the way, not allowed to come with us.
You stayed down there, and Iwas like, yeah, you were like
yeah, you were like you soundedlike you went into like mom mode right
there. Yeah. You were likeyou were like, now you listen to
me. You know, It's likeit was awesome. It was so good.
(32:58):
But you know what, that's agood point that you you bring up
though. When you are doing anythinglike that, setting your boundaries is very
important, and I think, like, you know, uh, kind of
setting them up at the very beginning, like if you whether you're you know,
just doing when you're doing a ghosttour or you're doing a paranormal investigation,
or you think you have something weirdgoing on, like I guess in
your personal residence or something you know, introduce yourself. Let the whatever it
(33:22):
is, the paranormal entity know thatyou're friendly, you don't mean any harm
or anything. But then let themknow like hey, but like you're not
coming here with me, and youneed to figure your own self out before
you start, you know, reckonmy stuff. So it's very, very
interesting. So we've been talking withAnnika Edinfield. She does ghost tours all
(33:46):
around downtown Savannah. You can getto her links. They are in the
description of this episode. And you, guys, if you are going to
be in the Savannah, Georgia areaand you are looking for a ghost tour
or four, you can go withher because she does for you said,
(34:07):
four different routes. Yeah, soyou can do four different roots and go
to four different places. So Imean, really, you could book like
all four of her tours and she'llget real familiar with you. But don't
follow her down alleys. She willyell at you and that's just how it
goes. And rightfully, so don'tbe a creep right Oh man? Uh,
(34:30):
so I gotta ask you too,So you know you are you're you're
you're part of the paranormal community andeverything like that, What would you say
uh, you know, just likekind of like off the top of your
head when it comes to like theuh, like ghost tourism business, What
is like the biggest thing that youthink that you'd like to see change like
(34:50):
kind of like overall, I wouldlike to see more dedication to making things
historically accurate. Savannah's history is weirdenough. There's plenty of creepy, spooky
things that have happened in Savannah's historythat are firm historic facts that you can
(35:10):
talk about. You don't have tomake up stuff. Yeah, every once
in a while, like I tryto be respectful to the other tours when
I'm walking by, and I'll sometimeshear things that are inaccurate, And as
we're walking by, sometimes my tourgroups will ask me like, well,
you didn't say anything about that,Like what's that? And I have to
tell them, you know, that'snot true. That's something that they made
(35:32):
up, self made up, orthat it's just kind of like local urban
legend that's there's nothing that traces backto it. It's it's a bit of
several things. So in some casesit is a local legend. In other
cases, it might be something thatthe tour company itself made up, and
(35:53):
in other cases you might have aspecific tour guide who is taking some artistic
license. Okay, alright, alright, So I guess that's where the entertainment
factor kind of comes into play whenit comes to these tours. Well,
and that's why it's important, andthat's what we talked about early on in
this episode, is that you know, your tours are very history forward.
There's a bit of like entertainment,and there's some lightheartedness to it where there
(36:15):
can be, but also like youknow, you're not afraid to put the
facts out there of like something thathappened that was absolutely tragic and everything like
that. So I like that.I like that, you know, being
more historically accurate and honest. Ithink, like just like overall, like
paranormal in general. Somebody had askedme a while ago what I thought the
future of the paranormal industry was,and I said, it's got to be
(36:38):
honesty first, like you know,otherwise, like why are we doing all
this? Why are we going outand researching and trying to figure out why
things exist if we're just gonna makestuff up, you know what I mean?
And I think I think it ischanging in the Stanna. It's for
(36:58):
the longest time it was you know, maybe a few companies, and then
you know, as a company,you also can't be there to micromanage every
single tour guide that you have.But I'm seeing a change in the tour
guides as well. I feel likethe tour guides themselves are taking this more
seriously and even though it's a job, it's probably not going to be their
(37:19):
main job, they are taking thetime to go and do a little bit
more research. So you're seeing you'reseeing things change slowly, but there is
change. That's a good thing,and that is a good thing because I
think you're right. I do thinklike just like overall, we are seeing
like a shift in that people areinterested in learning the real history and not
(37:43):
the I guess urban legends stuff thatwe've seen. Not that there's anything wrong
with urban legends, Like I lovea good urban legend. I think that
they're fun. I mean, wecover them on this show all the time.
But what do we usually discover whenwe're talking about those urban legends,
Metra We usually discover that parts ofit probably aren't true, but there is
lots yeah, yeah, But whatdo you always say you have basted on
(38:05):
some kind of like it's based onsomething, it's just been over exaggerated.
Yeah, exactly, exactly. It'slike a Honda game of Telephone, like
there was an actual story there,but one person told somebody, who told
somebody, who told somebody, andeventually, like things get a little scattered.
Yeah exactly. I think that whatwe've learned is that one of the
(38:25):
next places on our on our unrefinedbucket list has to be Savannah. We
have to go on your tours andwe have to go swing on these swings
at this counted playground. I thinkthat that happened would be amazing. Yeah,
so that that has to happen.We will make that happen. That'll
be a lot of fun too.But Anka, thank you so much for
(38:49):
coming on and joining us, tellingus about Savannah, telling us about what
people can do when they join youin Savannah. And like I said,
guys, but the links to hersocials right in the disc sure of this
episode, so you can follow hercontent and then also figure out how you
get to go on a ghost tourwhere her two and I think that would
be a lot of fun. SoSavannah is I mean, off the top
(39:09):
of your head. Do you knowwhere Savannah is ranked, because I think
it's pretty high up as far aslike the tops spooky cities in the country.
Right. It depends on what listyou're looking at. There are some
lists that say that we are themost haunted city in the country, but
then there are others that just keepus in the top five somewhere well,
so top five no matter, nomatter what you're looking at, it's either
(39:30):
number one or it's somewhere around there. So it's definitely a place that you've
got to visit. Put it onyour paranormal bucket list, and then go
see Annika and go on one ofher tours. And I think that you
guys will learn a lot and alsoget to experience some great paranormal stuff while
you're down there as well. ButI think that's all we have time for
(39:51):
on this episode of Refined As alwaysmake sure you head over to the description.
They'll get to all of our linksso you can follow us on our
socials. You can make sure thatyou have the podcast subscribed to wherever you're
listening, and check out the sponsorof this episode, the black Stuff fifteen
percent off, but the code Unrefinedget that handmade Irish soap direct to your
(40:12):
door and smell just so good,just smells so good. But you know,
on behalf of Mitra and myself,we will catch you on the next
episode of Unrefined
Hey, guys, it's BJN.Before we get into the newest episode of
Unrefined, let's hear from our goodfriend Brian over at the Necronomicast. He's
going to tell you a little bitabout his show from Omaha, Nebraska,
the capital city of the historic hauntedHeartland. My name is Brian Corey,
and I invite you to listen tomy show, The Necronomic Cast. Every
(00:23):
episode, it is my pleasure tobring you the finest in creepy conversations with
filmmakers, actors, television personalities andauthors, musicians, scientists, and highly
sought after experts, where we explorethe mysteries of the paranormal, true crime,
and all subjects that inspire what wesee in the darkened theater. So
(00:45):
sit back, relax, dim thelights as we journey together to a place
where monsters dwell, where spirits walkamong the living, and darkness shapes our
imaginations. Available everywhere you go forpodcast entertainment, join me for every episode
of Necronomcast, where I bring youthe horror of Hollywood and beyond. All
(01:21):
Right, guys, welcome back.It is another episode of Unrefined for you.
Bja is my name, with meas always is Metra and we really
go all out trying to make surethat we are on for you guys,
because we had some technical difficulty,but we through and we are here for
you and it is going to begood for episode number two hundred and five.
(01:42):
Thank you guys for joining us.And as always, if you head
over to the description of this episode, you'll be able to get to all
of our links so that you canfollow us on social media. If you're
not already doing so, appreciate everybodywho is. You can also go to
anywhere you're listening to this podcast dropus a review and a rating. Also,
big thank you to the sponsor ofthis episode, The black Stuff handmade
(02:06):
soap that is made in Ireland.Guys, So if you want to smell
like an irishman, you need thissoap and who doesn't, right exactly who
doesn't. So if you want todo that, you need this soap and
you need to go get it rightnow. The link is in the description
of this episode. Use code unrefined. You'll say fifteen percent on your first
order with the black Stuff. Anyway, we are here, we are ready,
(02:30):
and we have a special guest forus tonight. We love exploring spooky
places all around the United States,and one place that we've never gotten a
chance to really touch on that muchis Savannah, Georgia. And we are
here with Nica Edinfield, and sheis a well, why don't you tell
(02:52):
Why don't you tell the audience?Why don't you tell the audience what exactly
you do? I usually just saythat I'm a fan of all things Savannah,
Georgia and spooky, because that kindof covers everything. But I am
a recovering journalist and I love researchingSavannah's history and it's lore. Okay,
(03:13):
that's awesome. So have you Areyou native to Savannah? Not originally.
I moved here from the Florida Panhandle. Okay. I grew up close to
Panama City, Florida. I movedhere in twenty ten. Okay, alright.
Cool. Florida's got a little bitof interesting spooky history too with it,
though, like Saint Augustine and placeslike that, even way down there,
(03:36):
and the Panhandle's got some interesting storiesand stuff, so you've kind of
grown up in it, and that'sreally really cool. The southern part of
the United States has interesting haunted historyin general. Some of it I think
like, maybe isn't handled as well, and I think that you would agree
with that. But if you guyslisten, you guys, we will drop
(03:59):
the lane to Aneca's TikTok and herother socials too, and you can go
follow her content because it is reallygood. It's top notch, it's respectful,
it is like history forward, andthen it embraces the paranormal as well,
so you guys can go follow herthere. So, Anika, what
really, what kind of got youstarted in? Uh? In the paranormal?
(04:25):
Well? Growing up? I grewup in an evangelical household during the
Satanic Panic, and I was notallowed to believe in ghosts. My dad
said that if anybody says that they'veseen a ghost, that they've actually seen
a demon. And I'm thinking,yeah, that's not going to traumatize me
at all. That's but you know, I always had an interest in ghosts.
(04:50):
It was kind of like my littleway of rebelling. But when I
graduated from high school and moved toPensacola, Florida, I went to the
Universe Day West Florida and Pensacola isanother very haunted city. So I start
hearing all these stories about how thecity's very haunted, and you start to
research a little bit of that.And then when I left there, I
(05:13):
said, I'm remember covering journalist.I was working as a editor for a
magazine, Okay, and that waslocated in Port Saint Joe, Florida.
Another very haunted place, and it'sa teeny chinatown in the middle of Florid
Payanhandle and unless you have a reasonto go there, you've probably never heard
of it. But while I wasthere, I was working on the October
(05:38):
issue for the magazine, and Ireached out to a paranormal investigation group and
asked if I could tag along onan investigation, and they were going to
Marianna, Florida. Marianna is anothervery haunted place, but they were going
to investigate a place called the BellamyBridge. And if you've been around the
spooky side of TikTok for a whileand ended up on any count that talks
(06:00):
about spooky Florida, they've all talkedabout the Bellamy Bridge. Yeah, it
sounds familiar. There's a lot oflegends to it, and it's one of
those places that has so many legendsand there's so many variations on it.
But supposedly it's haunted by this womannamed Elizabeth Bellamy, and so we go
down there. Today there is atrail, a public trail that will take
you there. But back then,this is the early to mid two thousands,
(06:26):
there was not a trail and theyhad to ask for permission to go
there because it was on private property. And I drunk my friend Meg with
me because I was like, Idon't know these people and We're going to
the middle of nowhere and I'm notdying by myself. Yeah, safety first,
yes, So she came with meand we were just there to observe,
weren't taking part in the investigation,and they had all their equipment out
(06:51):
there, sitting next to the bridge, trying to get Elizabeth or anybody to
talk to them. My friend Magand I are standing far away from them
and we're just talking. As we'retalking, my friend Meg stops and asked
me, did you hear that?I didn't hear anything. So we keep
talking, and then after a littlewhile I heard something and I said,
(07:14):
Meg, when you asked me ifI heard something, did it sound like
a metal on metal clinking noise?And she said yeah. I said,
great, I just heard that.Too. Let's go back to the group.
We do not Yeah, we donot want anything spooken us. That's
right. We were power in numberswhen it comes to paramormal investigating, right,
yeah. Feature, and I learnedthat the hard way and the more
(07:36):
people, the safer you feel andthe less scared you feel. I think.
So that brings us to kind oflike what you do now, speaking
of you know, going out ingroups and everything. You do historic ghost
tours all around the city of Savannah, Georgia, which has a very interesting
history. You had sent and inour email back and forth about how some
(08:01):
something that that lends to the thehistory of Savannah and the architecture. Yeah.
So Savannah is famously a city builton it's dead, and that is
not unusual. A lot of oldcities are. Yeah, we just advertise
it more. That's that's part ofthe dark tourism draw to Savannah. City
(08:26):
builds on it's dead. And apparentlyanywhere you did you can find bodies,
which also is not that unusual foran old city. Yeah, but because
that has been so overhyped, wedo not have a we have an archaeology
ordnance, but it's not the best. Uh, And anytime we have new
(08:50):
construction. We're still a developing city. We've got a big tourism boom.
So we've got a lot of newconstruction right now. Uh, and bones
are being found. Oh okay,Well, the Archaeologic Archaeological Archaeological Ordinance only
applies to city property. It doesnot apply to private property. Okay,
(09:13):
so private property if they find bones, Oh well, it's up to them.
Do they contact somebody and say,hey, we found bones here,
Maybe we need to prob it inan archaeologist or do we just throw them
in the dumpster or reburied. That'shorrible, That is horrible. That's not
cool. So I did actually talkto somebody at city Hall recent life for
(09:35):
an article that I'm writing, andshe said that isn't a review period and
that it's going to be beaten broughtback to the city Council to see how
the archaeologians Archaeology Ordinance has worked andhow it hasn't worked, and what can
be done to make it better.How would they know if it was like
(09:56):
a like a semi not fresh,because I mean, but it could have
been buried few years ago and hereare some bones compared to this was buried
one hundred years ago. How wouldsomebody know really, you know, it
could be a real crime scene,right, and then they're like, oh,
well I can just throw this away. Yeah. But yeah, and
when I talk about it, becauseI've talked about it on my TikTok,
(10:18):
like oh, they found bones here, And I get so many comments from
people who are like, oh,yes, they found bones. You can
find bones all around Savana, Likewhy don't you care more? Like,
yeah, that's rights something that peopleshould be looking into. Yeah, And
it's not just bones, it's otherthings. Like this city was founded,
it was colonized in seventeen thirty three, but there have been indigenous people living
(10:39):
here for thousand years. Yeah,right, so I mean and I think,
well, I mean obviously that's that'sthe case with most of the United
States, you know, like,you know, the first people in the
colonies came, but there were quitea few people living here beforehand, and
we just started building on top ofthings that we don't even know what we
were building on, you know whatI mean. It's like, well,
(11:01):
it's like, well, Saint LouisIs Mound city, right, because of
all the mounds for the Native Americanburial ground, right, so like it's
just crazy and then we'll get anickname. And I think that that's just
insane to me. But it's it'svery it's very interesting that you say that.
I don't know if you happen tohave listened to it. I had
(11:22):
addressed it on my TikTok page.But there was a very interesting episode of
This American Life, which is NPR, and so yeah, so I'm assuming
you heard that one, and itwas all about the dark tourism industry and
they talked about how, you know, very similar to what you're saying,
Like, you know, it's madelike we're making famous of like these legends
(11:43):
and things like that, but there'sreally like a lack of human empathy that
goes into it as well, whichis a huge concern I think when you
are doing like these type of ghosttours, especially in an area like you
know the sound, I mean,it doesn't matter where you are. Like,
ghost tours are based on a lotof the stories are based on tragedy,
(12:05):
you know what I mean, AndI think that making light of the
tragedies is probably not the best idea. Yeah, the things that I make
light of on my tour are usuallycheating spouses getting what they deserve. But
yeah, like you can talk aboutvery serious subjects. You can talk about
(12:28):
like issues of sexual assault and mentalhealth and even the transatlantic slave trade,
and you can talk about those thingson your tour and address them in a
respectful way while also sharing how horrifyingthe conditions were without making light of them.
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely, itwasn't Metra didn't. You just shared
(12:52):
an article with me the other daythat a couple unknowingly bought like a house
in Texas, right, and theyfound that What was the story on that
they put me on the spot.I don't know. I think in twenty
fourteen, they bought this old propertythat was going to be like the retirement
(13:13):
property slash project, and they didn'trealize it was actually it had a plaque
in front of it. I don'tknow if it was an actual historic plaque
or it was just a plaque somebodyhad put there saying what the house was
and the history and whatever. Andthere was you know, there were slaves
there and everything, and they wantedto do more research not only on the
people that lived there, but theslaves that live there too, because you
(13:35):
seemed to overlook a lot of thatstuff and they wanted they turned the whole
place to a museum. I guessit. I don't know if it just
opened or what. I don't know, like what, but you can go
there at the museum, you cantake wedding pictures there, and you can
learn the history of not only thefamily, but the slaves that lived there
too, so that they're not forgotten, you know, And they're still uncovering
(13:56):
a lot of the information from theslaves because you know, there's just not
good records on that stuff, youknow, right, Yeah? Is that
something that you run into a lotwhen you are looking into the history and
Savannah as like the records of likethe enslaved people and things like that.
So there is there's been a hugepivot in Savannah within the last ten years.
(14:18):
You are seeing more of these housemuseums dedicate space and talk about the
enslaved people who lived and worked thereand what their daily lives were like Okay,
Owen's Thomas House. It is afantastic example of that. I love
that place because they have gone backthrough and research everyone who lived there,
(14:39):
not just the rich white people,but they went back and research the enslaved
people. Found some of their names, and they took the carriage house slash
enslave quarters behind the home and theyrenovated that back to period accuracy. So
you have a complete idea of whatit would have been like to be in
(15:00):
slave person in Savannah because a lotof people, when you think of enslavement,
you think about plantations, and therewere certainly plantations around Savannah. Most
of those aren't standing anymore, mostof them have burned down. Yeah,
but yeah, being being an enslavedperson in a city was different from being
in a slave person on a plantation. No less horrific, just different.
(15:22):
And the Owens Thomas House and nowthe Davenport House and a few other places
are doing a really good job ofeducating people on that. Okay, okay,
So you're doing your tours and everythinglike that, why don't you give
us a little like where do ifsomeone's going to go on your tour,
where are you taking them? Areyou taking them all around like Savannah?
(15:43):
Are you taking them to all likethe places that you're talking about, or
is it more like a downtown area? So my license only applies to historic
downtown. It's a walking tour,not a driving tour. So I've only
got you for an hour and ahalf and there's only so far we can
go. Those are the best ones, though, Honestly, I love the
walking tours, especially when it's beautifuloutside. Though you must be taught right
(16:07):
now, Like, I don't knowhow you're doing that. I've got I've
got a really good neck fan.But I've got four different routes, which
keeps things interesting for people, Likeif somebody went on one tour and then
want to book me for another tour, I can take them too completely different
places. But it also keeps mefrom getting bored and getting in a rut
(16:30):
and just reciting these stories you know, over and over again. You know,
Mitra Nostalgia is a big seller thesedays. Who doesn't love a walk
down memory lane? You know,I've basically been listening to the same exact
music since I was in high school. That really doesn't chuck me. While
some of us can't let go ofthe past, it is time to let
go of some of those things,yeah, like rap rock. Never know
(16:52):
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Visit them online now at the blackStuff dot com and tell them bj
Metris site. You like obviously likeyou are very like you know, very
history forward and your tours and everythinglike that, but there's also kind of
like, you know, you've gotto be entertaining. You know, you've
got a group of people out thereand everything, so there is like an
entertainment aspect to it too. Sowhat would you say, Like, you
(18:00):
know, your ratio is between,like I guess, educational and then entertaining.
So usually I will set all ofmy stories up with history, like
I will describe the history. Likelet's say we are going by the Keyhoe
House, which is a historic innhere in Savannah. I'm going to tell
you who William Keyhoe is, whyhe ended up building that home, some
(18:22):
of the architectural details that he putinto the home, what his family life
was like. Uh, and thenI'll talk about what happened to the home
after the family moved out, howit was a boarding house for a while,
and it was also a funeral homefor a little while, and then
it was sold to Joe Nameth fora little bit. Jill wait, go
back yo name like the football player. Okay, So I'll set up all
(18:48):
of this history, and then I'lltalk about how today it's an end and
children are not allowed there. It'san adult's only end, if they've got
that on their website, But peoplewho stay there often here children playing in
the hallway. Sometimes people have claimedto hear a baby cry and other parts
(19:10):
of the home, and if theysay anything to the front desk clerk,
the front desk clerk has to tellthem. Those are ghost kids. If
you want them to be quiet,you're going to have to tell them yourself,
which I mean you can be politeto ghost and you can ask them.
You listen trying to get a littlebit of rest here, Can you
please just quiet down for a littlebit, or at least just settle down
for a minute, like at leasttill I'm like sound asleep, and you're
(19:32):
not going to disturb me while I'mdoing that. So what is I would
say, what is your favorite Savannahghost story to tell? That's like asked
me to pick a favorite child.I oh God, it really depends on
the day and my mood and howthings are feeling downtown, because I sometimes
(19:57):
feel like some of the ghosts,like the energy around some places changes a
little bit. So sometimes I'm like, oh, like, we should probably
not stop here, Like everything's feelingnot copasetic, so let's just keep moving.
We'll talk about something else, okay. But I love talking about Alice
(20:19):
Riley, who was the first womanexecuted for murder in the Colony of Georgia.
Okay, And she's another one thoselegends that has a lot of myth
that sprung up around the fact andThere are a lot of unknowns with that
(20:40):
case as well, because that happenedin the mid seventeen thirties in Savannah,
so we don't have all the bestdocumentation on it, and I think a
lot of stories have been made uparound some of those gaps, right,
Okay, all right. I thinkthat that tends to happen a lot,
especially when you go back far enough, because you know, it's kind of
(21:03):
like, you know, people justtalking and then one thing gets said and
then that becomes fact and everything.So that must be really tough for you
to kind of like decipher through allthat. Yeah, but we are really
lucky that Savannah has a lot ofwell documented history. Savannah's the first colonized
city in Georgia, so if youwalk through Colonial Park Cemetery, you'll see
(21:27):
a lot of historic plaques for youknow, George's first, this, George's
first, that all these people whoare buried there, George's first historian is
buried in Colonial Park Cemetery. Andour Courthouse, our modern, modern and
quotation marks courthouse was built in theearly nineteen hundreds and it was designed to
have a city archives in it.So we have a lot of really well
(21:52):
documented history here and we're very fortunatefor that. Yeah, no kidding.
I think a lot of the thingsthat we come across, especially with paranormal
is trying to track down the historyof whether it's a building or the people
who were in the building and stufflike that. So it's it's nice to
see that there is this, uh, this passion for history and that people
(22:14):
want to be able to tell thestories and in the correct manner and everything
like that. What's your favorite what'syour favorite place to go to in Savannah?
Like is do you have like afavorite spooky spot that you just like,
this is like my my home base. Uh? I really like the
playground back behind Colonial Park Cemetery.Yes, we have a playground. Yeah
(22:37):
all right, yea ellaborate on thatplease, There is a playground that you
like going to behind a cemetery,just you know, normal Savannah things regular.
So where the playground is behind thecemetery. That actually started off at
a plant nursery because when Colonial ParkCemetery was an active cemetery, they would
(23:00):
cultivate flowering trees and bushes in thatplant in our tree to replant in the
cemetery, you know, cover upsome in the celty composition that was a
problem, okay, and make ita prettier place for people to come and
visit their loved ones. And theneventually a playground was built there. Okay,
okay, because Savannah. Yeah,hey, listen, there's a there's
(23:21):
a big park here in Albany thatwe've been to in Albany, New York.
Not Albany, Georgia, Albany,New York that apparently allegedly has a
whole bunch of bodies underneath it becausethey said that they exhume them, but
nobody's quite sure if they actually didor not. So now you just have
a giant, beautiful park in themiddle of the city of Albany that may
or may not have been a cemeteryor something. That's nice. I think
(23:47):
it's so common though, right,Like I think, yeah, that's what
we've discovered, right, Mitra thatas we're kind of researching a lot of
these places, like they're one herein San Antonio too. Oh, that's
right, that's right, Yeah,we'll be there. What was the park
we walked through in St. Louistoo? I thought so that they said
that that also like used to bea cemetery, but they weren't sure,
(24:08):
are they would buried all the peoplelike they used to bury their dead there
or something like, Yeah, Idon't remember what that was called. My
facts are off right now. It'sabout it, So all right, tell
us more about the spooky cemetery playgroundthat you like to go to. It
was just totally normal for us,right, yes, totally normal things.
Yeah, so it is. Itis a haunted playground, as you can
(24:32):
imagine, being right next to acemetery. Yeah. After Colonial Park Cemetery
closed in eighteen fifty three, Uh, the city kind of left it.
They did intend to actually develop thatand build a courthouse there, which didn't
work out. But after they leftit, the cemetery was just kind of
(24:55):
open for anyone to do anything there. They did have to problems with grave
robbing, which is fun, andthen kids would use it as a playground.
Kids used it as a playground fora long long time. I talked
to people who were children in thenineteen sixties growing up here and they're like,
oh, yeah, you used toplay in there all the time.
(25:15):
That was a great play Yeah,So it makes sense that both the cemetery
and the playground would be haunted byghost children, and a lot of people
have said that at night, ifyou take pictures at the playset, sometimes
you get childlike shapes on it.I'm going to be honest, a lot
of the photos that I've seen thatsupposedly have these ghost children in them are
(25:37):
orbs that could be dust or humidity, because it's Savannah and it's very human.
Yeah yeah, yeah, But Ihave walked past those swings at night
and watched the swings start to moveback and forth when there is no wind
blowing. Yeah. And I thinkthat anybody who's ever set foot in a
playground knows that, like, theswings aren't just gonna move. You know.
What I mean is that I'm preppierthan a playground at nighttime, just
(26:03):
in general. That's why it's inthe introduction for Are You Afraid of the
Dark, like yeah, and swingingexactly, yeah, exactly. Yeah.
So that's funny. So you've you'veseen the swings moving when you've gone through
there, that's incredible. I usedto foster dogs for a group parent Town
called Renegade Pause Rescue, and mylast foster was a cute little dog named
(26:27):
Xavier, but he had been abusedand so he was terrified of everything when
we got him, and as hisfoster mom, I'm trying to build up
his confidence, getting used to newthings and new people. And he was
doing really well, but I couldnever get used to kids. Okay,
the kid was calm and standing there, Xavier would be okay, but the
(26:48):
moment they start running around and actinglike a kid, Xavier's like, nope,
I'm out, no, thank you. But one day we were downtown
and I figured we'll look through ColoniaPark Cemetery. It's just a nice,
you know space, he'll have fun. Well, we got through the gate,
about three feet inside the gate andhe puts on the brakes. He's
like, no, not doing this, trying to coax some forward. Nothing's
(27:12):
working, and I'm like, that'sfun. We'll leave. And then like
a day or two later, Iwas back downtown live with Xavier and my
dog, Vash. And Vash isa good big foster brother, likes to
show the other dogs how to bea dog. I think the perfect Vash
will show Xavier how to walk throughClona Park Cemetery and we get through the
same gate a little farther inside.My dog was fine, Xavier was not.
(27:37):
He was completely freaking out, andI'm like, you know what,
buddy, it's fun. We'll justleave. And later one of the other
volunteers that I was talking to remindedme about the ghost children that people have
seen in the cemetery, and Iwas like, you know, I thought
that was it. I bet thatwas little Xavier can't even deal with living
children. He was not dealing withghost kids. The dogs away, Yeah,
(28:03):
right, yeah, we've talked aboutthat on the show before too.
So you have you had any otheranimals that you've been around that have kind
of like seen something like that orfelt something that you think not there.
But my dog Bash goes with mea lot of places. If you caught
any of my TikTok lives, he'susually with me, and every once in
(28:26):
a while he'll react to something.We walked out at some of the cemeteries
sometimes and he'll stop and he'll lookback at me when we see people like
you see them, and I'm like, yep, I see them. And
then sometimes he'll stop and look backat me like you see them, And
I said, no, I donot see that. It's just you,
this dog. But one night wewere down on River Street and it was
(28:52):
it was Christmas Eve a couple ofyears ago. It was nice and quiet
down there, and my dog doesthis particular little crowd and wiggle bouncing when
he sees another dog that he wantsto play with, and he started doing
that, but there was no onearound. O creepy. Yeah, that
is creepy. Is that the creepiestthing you think that's ever happened to you
(29:15):
in your history of doing things withghost tours and paranormal investigations. No,
that's not the creepiest thing. I'vehad a couple of creepy things happen.
That's trying to play with the ghostdog. That's nothing. What do you
what do you think is the creepiestthing that you've ever encountered? I had
something try to follow me home fromCorney Park Cemetery one night. Oh so
(29:37):
this place sounds like a like aball, Like we should really go there,
Like your dog won't go win,like you've got something following you home
swings or movings. Sounds wonderful.Yeah, it's it's a very active place
because it, like I said,it closed in eighteen fifty three. Yeah,
the city didn't really start actively takingcare of it until the nineteens sixties,
(30:00):
so you know, more than ahundred years after it was closed,
like people are taking advantage of itand doing a lot of stupid things there
and being really disrespectful, and yeah, that's going to leave behind some really
restless spirit. I guess, Oh, yeah, who what do you think
was trying to follow you home?So I'm not completely certain. I definitely
(30:25):
felt like it was a guy,but I was walking down the sidewalk.
It was after one of my ghosttours. I had parked on the other
side of the cemetery, and Ifelt confident walking down that sidewalk by myself
because that's a very popular spot fora lot of other ghost tours. And
we have twenty plus tour companies inSavannah that are just ghost tours, and
(30:45):
some of those will run multiple toursat a time, so you've got a
whole bunch of tours that will bearound Coloney Park Cemetery. So I figured
I wouldn't be by myself, eventhough it was late, but there was
no one out there. There wereno other ghost tours on the sidewalk that
night. And I'm walking down thesidewalk still still feeling confident, and I
(31:07):
get about halfway down, and Ifeel somebody behind me. Yeah, and
I think I'm about to get muggedbecause I used to work in news and
I work the overnight Jeff listening toa lot of weird scanner traffic get two
and three in the morning. SoI turn around to yell at whoever's following
me, okay, thinking that willsurprise them and then I can run away.
(31:30):
Well I turn around, No one'sthere. Oh so creepy. You
can feel that like presence, right, I can't see anybody, but I
feel somebody okay. And my friendRebecca had warned me about that. She
was like, girl, if you'regoing to a lot of pond of places,
(31:52):
ghosts are gonna get familiar with you. So I might try to get
a little too familiar and if thathappens, set your boundaries, remind them
that they cannot follow you, thatthey have to stay there. Yeah,
And so I had to do that, and that was the first time I
ever had to do that. Itwas a little terrifying. But whoever it
was listened and stayed put because thefarther I walked away, the smaller the
(32:14):
presence felt. Yeah, and yeah, I don't walk down that, so
I walked by myself anymore. Wow. Yeah, as you so really step
really got to you. Wow,that's pretty crazy. Yeah, you should
hear whenever we go into a hauntedplace like that is like the last thing
you hear is like the stern warningfrom Metra. She was like, you
follow us, you are not allowedto do that. I remember you did
(32:37):
that. We were coming out ofthat one basement and you turned around and
you were like, by the way, not allowed to come with us.
You stayed down there, and Iwas like, yeah, you were like
yeah, you were like you soundedlike you went into like mom mode right
there. Yeah. You were likeyou were like, now you listen to
me. You know, It's likeit was awesome. It was so good.
(32:58):
But you know what, that's agood point that you you bring up
though. When you are doing anythinglike that, setting your boundaries is very
important, and I think, like, you know, uh, kind of
setting them up at the very beginning, like if you whether you're you know,
just doing when you're doing a ghosttour or you're doing a paranormal investigation,
or you think you have something weirdgoing on, like I guess in
your personal residence or something you know, introduce yourself. Let the whatever it
(33:22):
is, the paranormal entity know thatyou're friendly, you don't mean any harm
or anything. But then let themknow like hey, but like you're not
coming here with me, and youneed to figure your own self out before
you start, you know, reckonmy stuff. So it's very, very
interesting. So we've been talking withAnnika Edinfield. She does ghost tours all
(33:46):
around downtown Savannah. You can getto her links. They are in the
description of this episode. And you, guys, if you are going to
be in the Savannah, Georgia areaand you are looking for a ghost tour
or four, you can go withher because she does for you said,
(34:07):
four different routes. Yeah, soyou can do four different roots and go
to four different places. So Imean, really, you could book like
all four of her tours and she'llget real familiar with you. But don't
follow her down alleys. She willyell at you and that's just how it
goes. And rightfully, so don'tbe a creep right Oh man? Uh,
(34:30):
so I gotta ask you too,So you know you are you're you're
you're part of the paranormal community andeverything like that, What would you say
uh, you know, just likekind of like off the top of your
head when it comes to like theuh, like ghost tourism business, What
is like the biggest thing that youthink that you'd like to see change like
(34:50):
kind of like overall, I wouldlike to see more dedication to making things
historically accurate. Savannah's history is weirdenough. There's plenty of creepy, spooky
things that have happened in Savannah's historythat are firm historic facts that you can
(35:10):
talk about. You don't have tomake up stuff. Yeah, every once
in a while, like I tryto be respectful to the other tours when
I'm walking by, and I'll sometimeshear things that are inaccurate, And as
we're walking by, sometimes my tourgroups will ask me like, well,
you didn't say anything about that,Like what's that? And I have to
tell them, you know, that'snot true. That's something that they made
(35:32):
up, self made up, orthat it's just kind of like local urban
legend that's there's nothing that traces backto it. It's it's a bit of
several things. So in some casesit is a local legend. In other
cases, it might be something thatthe tour company itself made up, and
(35:53):
in other cases you might have aspecific tour guide who is taking some artistic
license. Okay, alright, alright, So I guess that's where the entertainment
factor kind of comes into play whenit comes to these tours. Well,
and that's why it's important, andthat's what we talked about early on in
this episode, is that you know, your tours are very history forward.
There's a bit of like entertainment,and there's some lightheartedness to it where there
(36:15):
can be, but also like youknow, you're not afraid to put the
facts out there of like something thathappened that was absolutely tragic and everything like
that. So I like that.I like that, you know, being
more historically accurate and honest. Ithink, like just like overall, like
paranormal in general. Somebody had askedme a while ago what I thought the
future of the paranormal industry was,and I said, it's got to be
(36:38):
honesty first, like you know,otherwise, like why are we doing all
this? Why are we going outand researching and trying to figure out why
things exist if we're just gonna makestuff up, you know what I mean?
And I think I think it ischanging in the Stanna. It's for
(36:58):
the longest time it was you know, maybe a few companies, and then
you know, as a company,you also can't be there to micromanage every
single tour guide that you have.But I'm seeing a change in the tour
guides as well. I feel likethe tour guides themselves are taking this more
seriously and even though it's a job, it's probably not going to be their
(37:19):
main job, they are taking thetime to go and do a little bit
more research. So you're seeing you'reseeing things change slowly, but there is
change. That's a good thing,and that is a good thing because I
think you're right. I do thinklike just like overall, we are seeing
like a shift in that people areinterested in learning the real history and not
(37:43):
the I guess urban legends stuff thatwe've seen. Not that there's anything wrong
with urban legends, Like I lovea good urban legend. I think that
they're fun. I mean, wecover them on this show all the time.
But what do we usually discover whenwe're talking about those urban legends,
Metra We usually discover that parts ofit probably aren't true, but there is
lots yeah, yeah, But whatdo you always say you have basted on
(38:05):
some kind of like it's based onsomething, it's just been over exaggerated.
Yeah, exactly, exactly. It'slike a Honda game of Telephone, like
there was an actual story there,but one person told somebody, who told
somebody, who told somebody, andeventually, like things get a little scattered.
Yeah exactly. I think that whatwe've learned is that one of the
(38:25):
next places on our on our unrefinedbucket list has to be Savannah. We
have to go on your tours andwe have to go swing on these swings
at this counted playground. I thinkthat that happened would be amazing. Yeah,
so that that has to happen.We will make that happen. That'll
be a lot of fun too.But Anka, thank you so much for
(38:49):
coming on and joining us, tellingus about Savannah, telling us about what
people can do when they join youin Savannah. And like I said,
guys, but the links to hersocials right in the disc sure of this
episode, so you can follow hercontent and then also figure out how you
get to go on a ghost tourwhere her two and I think that would
be a lot of fun. SoSavannah is I mean, off the top
(39:09):
of your head. Do you knowwhere Savannah is ranked, because I think
it's pretty high up as far aslike the tops spooky cities in the country.
Right. It depends on what listyou're looking at. There are some
lists that say that we are themost haunted city in the country, but
then there are others that just keepus in the top five somewhere well,
so top five no matter, nomatter what you're looking at, it's either
(39:30):
number one or it's somewhere around there. So it's definitely a place that you've
got to visit. Put it onyour paranormal bucket list, and then go
see Annika and go on one ofher tours. And I think that you
guys will learn a lot and alsoget to experience some great paranormal stuff while
you're down there as well. ButI think that's all we have time for
(39:51):
on this episode of Refined As alwaysmake sure you head over to the description.
They'll get to all of our linksso you can follow us on our
socials. You can make sure thatyou have the podcast subscribed to wherever you're
listening, and check out the sponsorof this episode, the black Stuff fifteen
percent off, but the code Unrefinedget that handmade Irish soap direct to your
(40:12):
door and smell just so good,just smells so good. But you know,
on behalf of Mitra and myself,we will catch you on the next
episode of Unrefined
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