July 25, 2024 • 26 mins
In Episode 106, Aalia and Dushyanthi Satchi, LCSW, delves into the profound impact of trauma and genocide on individuals and communities, drawing from her personal and professional experiences. As a Sri Lankan Tamil and a licensed clinical psychotherapist, Dushyanthi discusses how growing up in the shadow of genocide shaped her career in trauma counseling. She explores the transformative role of social media in real-time reporting of global conflicts, such as the ongoing genocide in Palestine, highlighting both its power to amplify voices and its potential to spread misinformation. The episode also tackles the ideological dangers of Christian Zionism and its effect on the Palestinian conflict. Join us for an insightful conversation on empathy, healing, and the importance of understanding and action in the face of human suffering.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
From Ubin Studios. You're listening to Unsugarcoated with Alia, bringing
you interviews with public figures and inspirational people speaking on
self improvement with empowered themes, and I'm your host, Ali Laneus. Hello, Hello,
Hello everybody, and welcome back to another episode of Unsugarcoated
with Alia. I hope that wherever you are in the
world today, you are doing well, you are feeling fine,
(00:25):
and that you are doing your best to live unsugarcoated.
Of course, for us here in the studio, we're excited
to have another guest and continue talking about obviously some
very critical and pressing issues we have in our lives.
Today we're going to dive into the complex and deeply
affecting topics of trauma, genocide, and again a little bit
more on the role of social media in shaping our
(00:47):
understanding of global conflicts. In recent years, we have seen
a profound shift in how atrocities are documented and perceived,
thanks to the rise of real time reporting on social
media platforms. The pressing issues will explore is the long
lasting impact of genocide on individuals and communities. The scars
left by such atrocities are not just physical, but deeply psychological.
(01:11):
Affecting generations. We'll discuss how growing up in the shadow
of genocide shapes one's worldview, influences their career paths, and
drives a lifelong commitment to healing and advocacy. Another critical
topic we'll delve into is in which the current genocide
in Palestine is being witnessed and shared globally. Unlike past
conflicts where information was delayed and often filtered, today's events
(01:34):
are broadcast in real time, allowing for immediate global awareness
and reaction. We'll explore the dual edge sword of social media,
which can both amplify voices of suffering and spread misinformation
and be suppressed, and discuss how it's transforming our collective
consciousness about such tragedies. Additionally, we'll tackle the ideological and
(01:55):
political implications of Christian Zionism and its dangerous inmact on
the Palestinian conflict. This belief system not only shapes international policies,
but it also influences public opinion and consequently to the
lives of countless individuals caught in the crossfire. Through this discussion,
we will aim to shed light on the interconnections of trauma,
(02:17):
media and ideology and how they collectively shape our understanding
of and response to ongoing global crisis. Join us as
we navigate this important conversation, striving to foster greater empathy, awareness,
and action, most importantly, action in the face of human suffering.
Dushianthi Sachi is a licensed clinical psychotherapist and policy analyst.
(02:41):
She has a master's in both clinical work and international
policy from Columbia. She specializes in gender based violence, including
intimate partner violence, sex trafficking, and honor killings. She is
American from New York and of Sri Lankan Tamil descent.
She's been on CNN and PR and Oprah daily. Here
taking a moment from her clinical practice in both New
(03:01):
York and LA. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome, do Sheianti Stati?
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Hi?
Speaker 1 (03:07):
How are you hello.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
I'm very honored to be here.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
With you today. Thank you, Thank you. I'm the honor
is allmine. By the way, A lot is happening in
the world right now, yes, obviously. And you know I
shared a bit about your background. If you could, you know,
please share with us how you really you know, I
guess to some degree, your early life, your upbringing, and
your connection to the Sri Lankan genocide.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Well, I've heard stories of genocide since I was a
very little girl, because there was a genocide of Thumbles
in Sri Lanka, which is where my family's from. So
when I was little, my family who are first generation,
my parents were born in Sri Lanka. We were packed
and ready to go to Sri Lanka on this trip
(03:54):
and my dad suddenly got cancer and all of a
sudden he was in the hospital. And while he was
in the hospital and we literally had our bags packed
to be in Sri Lanka, the war broke out all
of a sudden. My mom didn't know where any of
my extended family. This is a pre cell phone era,
and it turned out that similar to some of the
footage we're seeing right now, and there was a land invasion.
(04:16):
The army was coming in through the front of their
homes of my family and they had to run out
the back. They hid in a chicken house for three days.
We didn't know where they were. There were bombings everywhere,
people were getting burned alive, and eventually they managed to
make it to the safety of the refugee camps. My
parents who were in America temporarily they had planned to
go back to Sri Lanka, found out that they were
(04:38):
in the refugee camps and that they had made it.
The homes had been burned down, they'd lost all their things,
and they managed to get them visitors, visas and eventually
sponsored them to be here, which is very rare. It's
very rare because the US typically closes the borders right
when they are doing now, Yes, they're doing now. Whenever
these crisis happened, they're like, we don't want you here.
From the time I was very little, you know, I
(04:58):
had twenty people in my home home who had literally
just lived through genocide, camps, all of these things. They
lived with us for several years because they left everything,
and all of a sudden, it was like we shared
socks and beds and this sort of understanding that the
world is not a safe place. There are things out
there that are happening that are not happening. In New
(05:19):
York and Connecticut where I grew up, it really started
that questioning for me. From a very young age. I
always heard the conversation in our home are they terrorists
or are they freedom fighters? Because we also had a
resistance group and constant updates of the war and instability
and US involvement. These were things I heard from the
time I was like five years old, So that sort
(05:41):
of global understanding was very ingrained in me.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
And it influenced you in your studies as well as
your career in trauma counseling.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Yeah, so I'm sort of a natural born therapist. I
was named class psychiatrist and love doctor in the eighth grade,
and I was always that person who was very interested
in psychology, reading books and started doing you know, trauma
counseling for people who'd experienced trauma, and for me, that
included trauma as it happens around the world because of
my framework and my family. My parents are both physicians,
(06:14):
as is my sister. Now my other sister is a therapist.
We all work in healthcare. So we started doing medical
camps together as a family. We went back to Sri Lanka,
so I was faced with trauma with people who had
lost eleven members of their family, you know, that level
of trauma the South Asian tsunami. We went back after
that and I started really understanding that level of trauma counseling,
(06:34):
not that anything is comparative in our world, but sort
of having that international lens of what trauma looks like globally.
So then that moved me into a policy perspective, right,
So I moved from doing the clinical work, which I
still do, into thinking why do so psychology of genocide?
Why does genocide happen in the first What are the
policies and politics that are happening that are causing this,
(06:56):
and what can we do to interrupt it? So then
my clinical work began and tied to became tied to
the policy work. And then I've sort of blended the
two over the years.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
When you would go into these areas and then kind
of go back home, how did privilege sit with you?
Speaker 2 (07:13):
Oh my gosh, I mean I remember this one camp
that we did. It was like a medical facility and
about three thousand people came in two days to see
five doctors, and people you know, walked for miles and
days to come to see this doctor these doctors, and
(07:34):
also there were people who crawled there because they had
lost limbs, similar to what we're seeing now. There's a
lot of you know, amputations that happened after war because
of the bombs, and you know, just seeing how how
much there was a need, you know, one for medical
(07:55):
you know, evaluation, medication, but also just human connection. One
of the most powerful experiences. I remember people saying, you know,
it's amazing that people around the world care about us,
and I remember feeling so lifted up by them. So
it was sort of an understanding of privilege, but also
about how impactful it was for us and for them
(08:18):
to connect on a human to human level. So it
stops becoming a number and a statistic and a headline,
and it really became humanized to me. And that's why
I take these issues personally. I've seen the faces, and
I've seen the tears and the suffering and the smiles
in real time.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
And you know that the people experiencing this, being the recipients,
are not bad people. Yeah, these are wonderful people.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
The Theamal people, which is what we were are in
the North and we had planned to go to the
North and while we were there, the war broke out again.
There was a ceasefire that got broken and they closed
the borders and we weren't allowed to enter the North.
So we ended up having to work with the majority party,
which were the people who essentially were the ethnicity that
causes this side and you know, my parents, you know,
(09:07):
had some feelings about this, right, this is the reason
they couldn't go back to their homeland. But when we
went in there in the country, the people were you
know suffering, you know, because it's a very corrupt government
that has very little middle class. They were poor. And
you know, it was a very powerful experience because we
really saw that, you know, the politics are very different
(09:29):
than the people. That's something I've actually gotten criticized for,
you know, I've that was such a strong lesson for
me that even you know, in my work with Palestine,
you know, really being able to see people across the
divide as you know, as human beings. I you know,
I've gotten criticized for having that humanity. But I grew up,
you know, I don't fall into the US versus them
(09:51):
because I've had these experiences.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
So I got to say something to that, like, because
this is very genuine when I say this, there's an
US in them when and it comes to the people
who are willing to do the right thing, and unfortunately
then there's the people who were willing to do the
wrong thing. Right, So there's perpetrators and there's victims. And
that is a fact However, what I always because I am,
you know, a person who does look at things objectively,
(10:16):
objectively and I'm a cancer survivor, right, so my symptoms
are not my root cause. Yes, everyone acts a certain
way because of another factor. So it's to me. This
is where I think is very very poignant, you know,
very critical for people to recognize there are good Israeli
and I don't even want to I don't just work
(10:37):
good bad, but there are there. Let's just say, there
are people in the Israeli community that do not agree
with what is happening, and then there are people who
actually are on board with it, and those are the
people and whatever caused them to be that way, Yes,
there's something that's causing them. However, in that moment, there's
still dangerous people. Do you understand? And I believe in forgiveness,
but I also believe in accountability.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Yes, yes, yes, yes, you know what you're hitting all
of the notes and this is this is actually I
got widely criticized for saying that because there's children in
every society exactly right, So what about the children in
any society? But yes, you can understand where someone came
from to be a part of a violent society, but
(11:17):
you can also hold them accountable. Right, And then there's
people in every society who are violent, who are you know,
passionately fighting against what happened. And I see that in
Sri Lanka, where you know, there's one single these journalist
who came who comes to mind, who ended up winning
I think it was Time Person of the Year because
(11:38):
he so spoke against the genocide and he wrote that
and then they came for me, you know, the famous
it's something from the Holocaust and I've seen it floating
for Palestine now and he wrote and then they came
for me. They're going to kill me for talking about this, right,
And they did come into his studio, right and shoot him.
So when I see people like that from the other side,
(11:59):
you know, I do you recognize that there is individuality,
of course, and hold the macro accountable at the same
time exactly.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
Well, yes, of course, because even in the German community.
I just spoke about this yesterday where even Germans, if
you were a German who supported or sympathized with the
Jewish community, you were then put in the same category. Yes,
you know, then you are not one of us, because
you're not hiling, you know, hailing to the furor and
all these things, you know whatever. I so, I yeah, No,
(12:28):
there's a lot of historical context that I think people
tend to forget about.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
I'll share with you my dad's side of the family.
They got a phone call and said your house is
going to be burned down. Get out, and they were
one of the lucky ones that they weren't lit on fire.
They ran across the street to their neighbor's house, who
were from the sing least majority party and they hid
them and the army went there to look for them, hm,
and they said, we know they're there, yes, And the
neighbors said, if you take them, you're going to have
(12:54):
to take me first.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
So, you know, I saw that ruined and genocide. We
actually get a film about a story of about a
hit Tuo and Rwandan hiding. You know, they opened their
home and had hid women in the cellar. Yes, we
unfortunately have a long negative history of genocide and yelling
innocent people and it's never been right. Yes, yeah, So
how do we move from that? I think is something
(13:16):
that I know that you seem to have been wanting
to do with policy.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
Yeah, well, I think what you're touching on the US
versus them is a big part of tackling moving past
genocide right, because conflict resolution right exactly, which is what
my master's thesis was in. I think one of the
first things that you see change before policy a lot
of the time, is changing hearts and minds, right and awareness.
(13:43):
So you know, I did a session with a Jewish
patient recently, and no matter what I would say to her,
it was like, no, but but about October seventh, about
October seventh, despite the facts, right, And I was like, well,
what if there was a Jewish holocaust right now? I
would be out there protesting too. So what makes it different?
(14:06):
It's us versus them, right, And it's so until that breaks, right,
it becomes very hard to want to do any sort
of change. So the policy change is establishing in the
law these things are not okay. You cannot genocide a
group of people, you cannot torture, you cannot rape. It
establishes it, it's sets a legal precedent, which is what
(14:27):
we're seeing with the International Criminal Court with the ICJ.
But you need people to change internally to buy into
the policy. You see that Nyahu turning a blind eye
but you do see a rise in global support who
do believe the policy.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
Yes, yeah, and stand behind it and want and want
to see it. And especially because as we'll loop in, yes,
social media has changed it. We have real time. I mean,
we've we've knew like now, I know a lot of
people criticize are more confident comfortable criticizing America about Iraq's actions, right, Yes,
but that's only because after the fact that we got
the information, after you know, eventually there was the proof
(15:06):
to like there was no weapons of mass destruction. We're
just getting here. You know, documentaries contrast the current situation
in Palestine with past genocides that were not documented in
real time.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
Yes, so the strength of what's happening right now is
that it is documented and there is global awareness because
the reality is most of these genocides happen in the dark.
And I mean not just the world not knowing, but
a complete media blackout. A big key strategy in genocide
is to kill all the journalists, right, send the UN out,
(15:41):
don't allow Amnesty International. I mean, it's what happened in.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
Srilanka al Jazeira.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
You know, I remember putting a newspaper about a slaughter
in my suitcase when I was in Sri Lanka and
when I got back to New York, the newspaper was
gone and there was such tight restriction on news getting out,
you know. And you know, I was just a student
(16:05):
at that time, but you know, for journalists even tenfold.
So the strength in this movement is that you you
don't see a lot of these atrocities reported on the
mainstream news right though. That is shit shifting because the
journalists on the ground in Gaza have broken through mainstream media,
they have broken through influence influencer culture, and they're saying
(16:28):
this is what's happening right now, and now the media
is trying to catch up, right, and it's almost embarrassing.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
It is usually embarrasing because they're alway spuposed to be
the ones breaking the story.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
Yeah, so now they're like, well, you know, and I've
read accounts of media saying we're not allowed to tell
the truth about Israel, We'll get in trouble. But it's
so widespread now, the truth right the TikTok generation, the
social media movement, that they're like, okay, let's report it.
It's usually like a few days later, but they feel
it's embarrassing for them not to keep up right, And
(16:59):
now you know, when I worked at the UN, people
barely knew what the UN was. And now people know
when there's a UN Security Council meeting and they know
a resolution was past or veto. So it's more embarrassing
for the UN as well. You know, they all the
peace resolutions, they tried to pass them when there was
the genocide in Sri Lanka, and I should say there
(17:20):
is still a cultural genocide, but when there was the
mass slaughter in Sri Lanka, and they kept getting denied
like now, except now when it happens for Palestine, there's
global outrage right, right, So there's a lot more accountability
because of this social media awareness, right, And that is
the upside of it.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
It is, and I think in that sense that is
something I keep saying, is that the legacy of ten
to seven is that now the emperors have no pants, yes,
none of them, like we are now seeing every like
it's a big wake up call. And I was talking
about this in studio with some of the people earlier.
But like you know, we're often kept content in our lives,
(17:58):
those of us in the Western world, so that we're
not paying attention to what's happening in the dark. Yes,
but this is not the case now. We are very
fully aware. We are entrenched. I mean, you know, obviously
some of us are more tied, and we see families
and we still have communities are like Lebanon and Palestine.
But the way that people are watching like it's like
we're all watching the same thing, right, and yet you're
(18:20):
still going to make that decision. You're still going to
stand there and tell us a bold face, lie to
our face, like weird, dumb.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
I think that's what people are starting to finally feel.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
Yeah, I really love that analogy. You know, my boss
at the UN is Palestinian, and she did a lot
of my training, and she's amazing. She's an obguin, she's
a policy expert. We did gender based violence work, maternal
health care work together. But I used to go and
represent the branch at all these big global meetings with
(18:51):
ambassadors and come back and report to the branch. And
I would come back and report the facts and one
day she was like, deshand that you have to read
between the lines when they say this, what are they
really saying? And that's sort of that was one of
my biggest takeaways from working there is I had to
understand here's a diplomatic speak and here's what's actually going on, right,
(19:12):
and the news is like that.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
Right.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
The media is very you know, headlining and attention grabbing,
so they're focused on that, and then you have, you know,
the political rhetoric that's put out there, but what's actually
happening is probably even a little different than that.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
Right.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
So the emperor with no pants, so the emperor is
going to say this, but what's actually happening is now
reported by the journalist on the ground in GUSA, and
people on social media are talking about it, and now
people get there is a story. So as someone who
sort of had an understanding of some of these concepts,
to me, I'm like amazing. The world is seeing this.
People are understanding that there's a lot of genocides happening
(19:54):
right now that they've happened for a long time, and
this awakening, as tragic as it is to see what's unfolding,
the awakening aspect of it to me is really is
a positive piece as movement.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
It is it is, and I think that you know,
I was raised with the same for a bad that
a good doesn't come, and I just I definitely continue
to hope and pray and then do work, not just
not just hope and pray. Yes, but I keep a
hold of those things. I refuse to be hopeless, you know.
And I also feel that you know that there are
(20:29):
just so many people that do want peace that yeah,
and you know, I mean it is a process, but
I hope that we can get there. I want to
move into something really quick, which is the dangers of
Christian Zionism. Yes, you know, quickly, let's just take a
few minutes, because you know, Christian Zionism if you could
quickly define it and its influence right now and the
(20:52):
political landscape as you see.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
It sure a very important piece that does not get
discussed and eily enough. So Christian Zionism is paired with
Zionism and Judaism. And it's the belief that Jewish people
have the right to the Promised Land, which is Israel
and some of the borders around it. You know, it's
part of Lebanon, and you know, and that that is
(21:14):
God's promise to them, and also that in the end
times that this Jewish people will return to this land,
there will be a big battle in Jerusalem, and that's
when Jesus comes. So therefore we must support Israel and
its actions because these are God's people, These are the
chosen people, whether it's with money or prayers or political support.
(21:36):
And the Church has largely bought into this concept because
there have been so many dollars from Jewish Zionism poured
into this brainwashing, even though it has nothing to do
with Christianity. It is a gross misinterpretation of the Bible.
(21:57):
It is the opposite of what Jesus said, and it
is religion being weaponized for political agenda, just like we've
seen done with Buddhism in Sri Lanka. With Islam, it's
just like another war that is fought in the name
of religion that is actually about politics.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
Right in modern colonization in this case specifically modern colonization.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
And yes, and there's colonial roots around a lot of
these genocides. There was in Sri Lanka as well. It
was the British who had a lovely hand in ours
as well. So you know, the actual story in the
Bible is that there was a time in the Bible
that Christians believed that Jewish people represented the Kingdom of God,
and therefore they were brought into Israel.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
Right.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
But then after Jesus came, so two pieces. One going
into the Promised Land was based on obedience to God.
So even though Moses led them through, he was not
allowed to enter the Promised Land because he didn't obey God.
So you can't kill people, slaughter babies and all these
things and think, okay, I can have this land.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
Right, which is right?
Speaker 2 (23:07):
One? Two Jesus said very clearly. It's several times in
the New Testament there was no Jew, nor Greek, nor
a slave nor free. We're all equal, being equal being,
all of God's children were all the same. There was
no chosen favored people after Jesus.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
Right.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
So it is the antithesis of Christianity. And unfortunately this brainwashing.
I mean I grew up here and go in church too.
The Jews are God's chosen people. We must support them.
Is that in the Bible? Is that in the New Testament?
Speaker 1 (23:35):
No?
Speaker 2 (23:36):
Right, So it's it's very it's you know, churches are
giving money to support the war in Israel. They're all
voting for whoever is supporting the war in Israel, which
is red and blue as we right, both sides tend
to support besides a few outliers. But yeah, so it's
a very dangerous, misinformed part of this support for Israel.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
Oh it's so easy to Smiths and say, oh, I
support this idea. Oh, then there's gonna be a war.
I mean, we say this was such privilege because we
haven't felt war in a really long time, like Pearl
Harbor in the United States, but you know, civil war
before then. But we don't people the average person in America,
especially because most of them don't even go into the military, like,
we don't have any concept. It's such an easy thing
(24:19):
to say, yes, what a horrible thing to support.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
And this is what social media has started to break
into the consciousness exactly right, the image of the headless baby.
There's been lots of headless babies, but because one is
documented on social media, meaning lots of headless babies in Palestine,
so the bombs one was documented, it created this mass
surge of support. So yeah, it's making it more tangible
(24:45):
for people.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
Now, exactly what is your message right now to the world,
you know, with the trauma, the healing and even the
power of the narrative that you know you have in
your background, What is your message?
Speaker 2 (24:55):
I would say, One, don't let go of your self
care because a lot of the traumaffects of what you're
seeing is going to surface later. Two, I would say,
what we were talking about about the US versus them,
this is very important to break you know, look beneath
the political narrative, right, so when you're talking to someone
maybe who doesn't support the movement, you know that's a
(25:17):
big thing. You have to break through with them, right.
So really sort of understanding. There's what the media says,
there's what politics says, and then there's the actual truth,
absolutely right, and the truth makes everything very clear. The
facts are there.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
Yeah. Absolutely. Thank you so much for coming and being
with us today.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
I appreciate it. I'm so honored to be here. It
was wonderful talking to you.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
Thank you so much you as well. I want to
close on that because it is it is so important.
I hope that you've gained something in an understanding. What
we want to continue to do through the show is
humanize one another. There is no world where we can't
make this right. But it starts with us. It starts
with action, dedication, empathy, and a willingness to say I'm
(26:02):
going to leave everything behind and we need to start
fresh from this day because you know what I matter,
You matter, We matter together. Thank you so much for
being with us today, Thanks for letting us be unsugarcoated.
We'll see you next episode. Take care,
From Ubin Studios. You're listening to Unsugarcoated with Alia, bringing
you interviews with public figures and inspirational people speaking on
self improvement with empowered themes, and I'm your host, Ali Laneus. Hello, Hello,
Hello everybody, and welcome back to another episode of Unsugarcoated
with Alia. I hope that wherever you are in the
world today, you are doing well, you are feeling fine,
(00:25):
and that you are doing your best to live unsugarcoated.
Of course, for us here in the studio, we're excited
to have another guest and continue talking about obviously some
very critical and pressing issues we have in our lives.
Today we're going to dive into the complex and deeply
affecting topics of trauma, genocide, and again a little bit
more on the role of social media in shaping our
(00:47):
understanding of global conflicts. In recent years, we have seen
a profound shift in how atrocities are documented and perceived,
thanks to the rise of real time reporting on social
media platforms. The pressing issues will explore is the long
lasting impact of genocide on individuals and communities. The scars
left by such atrocities are not just physical, but deeply psychological.
(01:11):
Affecting generations. We'll discuss how growing up in the shadow
of genocide shapes one's worldview, influences their career paths, and
drives a lifelong commitment to healing and advocacy. Another critical
topic we'll delve into is in which the current genocide
in Palestine is being witnessed and shared globally. Unlike past
conflicts where information was delayed and often filtered, today's events
(01:34):
are broadcast in real time, allowing for immediate global awareness
and reaction. We'll explore the dual edge sword of social media,
which can both amplify voices of suffering and spread misinformation
and be suppressed, and discuss how it's transforming our collective
consciousness about such tragedies. Additionally, we'll tackle the ideological and
(01:55):
political implications of Christian Zionism and its dangerous inmact on
the Palestinian conflict. This belief system not only shapes international policies,
but it also influences public opinion and consequently to the
lives of countless individuals caught in the crossfire. Through this discussion,
we will aim to shed light on the interconnections of trauma,
(02:17):
media and ideology and how they collectively shape our understanding
of and response to ongoing global crisis. Join us as
we navigate this important conversation, striving to foster greater empathy, awareness,
and action, most importantly, action in the face of human suffering.
Dushianthi Sachi is a licensed clinical psychotherapist and policy analyst.
(02:41):
She has a master's in both clinical work and international
policy from Columbia. She specializes in gender based violence, including
intimate partner violence, sex trafficking, and honor killings. She is
American from New York and of Sri Lankan Tamil descent.
She's been on CNN and PR and Oprah daily. Here
taking a moment from her clinical practice in both New
(03:01):
York and LA. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome, do Sheianti Stati?
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Hi?
Speaker 1 (03:07):
How are you hello.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
I'm very honored to be here.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
With you today. Thank you, Thank you. I'm the honor
is allmine. By the way, A lot is happening in
the world right now, yes, obviously. And you know I
shared a bit about your background. If you could, you know,
please share with us how you really you know, I
guess to some degree, your early life, your upbringing, and
your connection to the Sri Lankan genocide.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Well, I've heard stories of genocide since I was a
very little girl, because there was a genocide of Thumbles
in Sri Lanka, which is where my family's from. So
when I was little, my family who are first generation,
my parents were born in Sri Lanka. We were packed
and ready to go to Sri Lanka on this trip
(03:54):
and my dad suddenly got cancer and all of a
sudden he was in the hospital. And while he was
in the hospital and we literally had our bags packed
to be in Sri Lanka, the war broke out all
of a sudden. My mom didn't know where any of
my extended family. This is a pre cell phone era,
and it turned out that similar to some of the
footage we're seeing right now, and there was a land invasion.
(04:16):
The army was coming in through the front of their
homes of my family and they had to run out
the back. They hid in a chicken house for three days.
We didn't know where they were. There were bombings everywhere,
people were getting burned alive, and eventually they managed to
make it to the safety of the refugee camps. My
parents who were in America temporarily they had planned to
go back to Sri Lanka, found out that they were
(04:38):
in the refugee camps and that they had made it.
The homes had been burned down, they'd lost all their things,
and they managed to get them visitors, visas and eventually
sponsored them to be here, which is very rare. It's
very rare because the US typically closes the borders right
when they are doing now, Yes, they're doing now. Whenever
these crisis happened, they're like, we don't want you here.
From the time I was very little, you know, I
(04:58):
had twenty people in my home home who had literally
just lived through genocide, camps, all of these things. They
lived with us for several years because they left everything,
and all of a sudden, it was like we shared
socks and beds and this sort of understanding that the
world is not a safe place. There are things out
there that are happening that are not happening. In New
(05:19):
York and Connecticut where I grew up, it really started
that questioning for me. From a very young age. I
always heard the conversation in our home are they terrorists
or are they freedom fighters? Because we also had a
resistance group and constant updates of the war and instability
and US involvement. These were things I heard from the
time I was like five years old, So that sort
(05:41):
of global understanding was very ingrained in me.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
And it influenced you in your studies as well as
your career in trauma counseling.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Yeah, so I'm sort of a natural born therapist. I
was named class psychiatrist and love doctor in the eighth grade,
and I was always that person who was very interested
in psychology, reading books and started doing you know, trauma
counseling for people who'd experienced trauma, and for me, that
included trauma as it happens around the world because of
my framework and my family. My parents are both physicians,
(06:14):
as is my sister. Now my other sister is a therapist.
We all work in healthcare. So we started doing medical
camps together as a family. We went back to Sri Lanka,
so I was faced with trauma with people who had
lost eleven members of their family, you know, that level
of trauma the South Asian tsunami. We went back after
that and I started really understanding that level of trauma counseling,
(06:34):
not that anything is comparative in our world, but sort
of having that international lens of what trauma looks like globally.
So then that moved me into a policy perspective, right,
So I moved from doing the clinical work, which I
still do, into thinking why do so psychology of genocide?
Why does genocide happen in the first What are the
policies and politics that are happening that are causing this,
(06:56):
and what can we do to interrupt it? So then
my clinical work began and tied to became tied to
the policy work. And then I've sort of blended the
two over the years.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
When you would go into these areas and then kind
of go back home, how did privilege sit with you?
Speaker 2 (07:13):
Oh my gosh, I mean I remember this one camp
that we did. It was like a medical facility and
about three thousand people came in two days to see
five doctors, and people you know, walked for miles and
days to come to see this doctor these doctors, and
(07:34):
also there were people who crawled there because they had
lost limbs, similar to what we're seeing now. There's a
lot of you know, amputations that happened after war because
of the bombs, and you know, just seeing how how
much there was a need, you know, one for medical
(07:55):
you know, evaluation, medication, but also just human connection. One
of the most powerful experiences. I remember people saying, you know,
it's amazing that people around the world care about us,
and I remember feeling so lifted up by them. So
it was sort of an understanding of privilege, but also
about how impactful it was for us and for them
(08:18):
to connect on a human to human level. So it
stops becoming a number and a statistic and a headline,
and it really became humanized to me. And that's why
I take these issues personally. I've seen the faces, and
I've seen the tears and the suffering and the smiles
in real time.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
And you know that the people experiencing this, being the recipients,
are not bad people. Yeah, these are wonderful people.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
The Theamal people, which is what we were are in
the North and we had planned to go to the
North and while we were there, the war broke out again.
There was a ceasefire that got broken and they closed
the borders and we weren't allowed to enter the North.
So we ended up having to work with the majority party,
which were the people who essentially were the ethnicity that
causes this side and you know, my parents, you know,
(09:07):
had some feelings about this, right, this is the reason
they couldn't go back to their homeland. But when we
went in there in the country, the people were you
know suffering, you know, because it's a very corrupt government
that has very little middle class. They were poor. And
you know, it was a very powerful experience because we
really saw that, you know, the politics are very different
(09:29):
than the people. That's something I've actually gotten criticized for,
you know, I've that was such a strong lesson for
me that even you know, in my work with Palestine,
you know, really being able to see people across the
divide as you know, as human beings. I you know,
I've gotten criticized for having that humanity. But I grew up,
you know, I don't fall into the US versus them
(09:51):
because I've had these experiences.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
So I got to say something to that, like, because
this is very genuine when I say this, there's an
US in them when and it comes to the people
who are willing to do the right thing, and unfortunately
then there's the people who were willing to do the
wrong thing. Right, So there's perpetrators and there's victims. And
that is a fact However, what I always because I am,
you know, a person who does look at things objectively,
(10:16):
objectively and I'm a cancer survivor, right, so my symptoms
are not my root cause. Yes, everyone acts a certain
way because of another factor. So it's to me. This
is where I think is very very poignant, you know,
very critical for people to recognize there are good Israeli
and I don't even want to I don't just work
(10:37):
good bad, but there are there. Let's just say, there
are people in the Israeli community that do not agree
with what is happening, and then there are people who
actually are on board with it, and those are the
people and whatever caused them to be that way, Yes,
there's something that's causing them. However, in that moment, there's
still dangerous people. Do you understand? And I believe in forgiveness,
but I also believe in accountability.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Yes, yes, yes, yes, you know what you're hitting all
of the notes and this is this is actually I
got widely criticized for saying that because there's children in
every society exactly right, So what about the children in
any society? But yes, you can understand where someone came
from to be a part of a violent society, but
(11:17):
you can also hold them accountable. Right, And then there's
people in every society who are violent, who are you know,
passionately fighting against what happened. And I see that in
Sri Lanka, where you know, there's one single these journalist
who came who comes to mind, who ended up winning
I think it was Time Person of the Year because
(11:38):
he so spoke against the genocide and he wrote that
and then they came for me, you know, the famous
it's something from the Holocaust and I've seen it floating
for Palestine now and he wrote and then they came
for me. They're going to kill me for talking about this, right,
And they did come into his studio, right and shoot him.
So when I see people like that from the other side,
(11:59):
you know, I do you recognize that there is individuality,
of course, and hold the macro accountable at the same
time exactly.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
Well, yes, of course, because even in the German community.
I just spoke about this yesterday where even Germans, if
you were a German who supported or sympathized with the
Jewish community, you were then put in the same category. Yes,
you know, then you are not one of us, because
you're not hiling, you know, hailing to the furor and
all these things, you know whatever. I so, I yeah, No,
(12:28):
there's a lot of historical context that I think people
tend to forget about.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
I'll share with you my dad's side of the family.
They got a phone call and said your house is
going to be burned down. Get out, and they were
one of the lucky ones that they weren't lit on fire.
They ran across the street to their neighbor's house, who
were from the sing least majority party and they hid
them and the army went there to look for them, hm,
and they said, we know they're there, yes, And the
neighbors said, if you take them, you're going to have
(12:54):
to take me first.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
So, you know, I saw that ruined and genocide. We
actually get a film about a story of about a
hit Tuo and Rwandan hiding. You know, they opened their
home and had hid women in the cellar. Yes, we
unfortunately have a long negative history of genocide and yelling
innocent people and it's never been right. Yes, yeah, So
how do we move from that? I think is something
(13:16):
that I know that you seem to have been wanting
to do with policy.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
Yeah, well, I think what you're touching on the US
versus them is a big part of tackling moving past
genocide right, because conflict resolution right exactly, which is what
my master's thesis was in. I think one of the
first things that you see change before policy a lot
of the time, is changing hearts and minds, right and awareness.
(13:43):
So you know, I did a session with a Jewish
patient recently, and no matter what I would say to her,
it was like, no, but but about October seventh, about
October seventh, despite the facts, right, And I was like, well,
what if there was a Jewish holocaust right now? I
would be out there protesting too. So what makes it different?
(14:06):
It's us versus them, right, And it's so until that breaks, right,
it becomes very hard to want to do any sort
of change. So the policy change is establishing in the
law these things are not okay. You cannot genocide a
group of people, you cannot torture, you cannot rape. It
establishes it, it's sets a legal precedent, which is what
(14:27):
we're seeing with the International Criminal Court with the ICJ.
But you need people to change internally to buy into
the policy. You see that Nyahu turning a blind eye
but you do see a rise in global support who
do believe the policy.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
Yes, yeah, and stand behind it and want and want
to see it. And especially because as we'll loop in, yes,
social media has changed it. We have real time. I mean,
we've we've knew like now, I know a lot of
people criticize are more confident comfortable criticizing America about Iraq's actions, right, Yes,
but that's only because after the fact that we got
the information, after you know, eventually there was the proof
(15:06):
to like there was no weapons of mass destruction. We're
just getting here. You know, documentaries contrast the current situation
in Palestine with past genocides that were not documented in
real time.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
Yes, so the strength of what's happening right now is
that it is documented and there is global awareness because
the reality is most of these genocides happen in the dark.
And I mean not just the world not knowing, but
a complete media blackout. A big key strategy in genocide
is to kill all the journalists, right, send the UN out,
(15:41):
don't allow Amnesty International. I mean, it's what happened in.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
Srilanka al Jazeira.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
You know, I remember putting a newspaper about a slaughter
in my suitcase when I was in Sri Lanka and
when I got back to New York, the newspaper was
gone and there was such tight restriction on news getting out,
you know. And you know, I was just a student
(16:05):
at that time, but you know, for journalists even tenfold.
So the strength in this movement is that you you
don't see a lot of these atrocities reported on the
mainstream news right though. That is shit shifting because the
journalists on the ground in Gaza have broken through mainstream media,
they have broken through influence influencer culture, and they're saying
(16:28):
this is what's happening right now, and now the media
is trying to catch up, right, and it's almost embarrassing.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
It is usually embarrasing because they're alway spuposed to be
the ones breaking the story.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
Yeah, so now they're like, well, you know, and I've
read accounts of media saying we're not allowed to tell
the truth about Israel, We'll get in trouble. But it's
so widespread now, the truth right the TikTok generation, the
social media movement, that they're like, okay, let's report it.
It's usually like a few days later, but they feel
it's embarrassing for them not to keep up right, And
(16:59):
now you know, when I worked at the UN, people
barely knew what the UN was. And now people know
when there's a UN Security Council meeting and they know
a resolution was past or veto. So it's more embarrassing
for the UN as well. You know, they all the
peace resolutions, they tried to pass them when there was
the genocide in Sri Lanka, and I should say there
(17:20):
is still a cultural genocide, but when there was the
mass slaughter in Sri Lanka, and they kept getting denied
like now, except now when it happens for Palestine, there's
global outrage right, right, So there's a lot more accountability
because of this social media awareness, right, And that is
the upside of it.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
It is, and I think in that sense that is
something I keep saying, is that the legacy of ten
to seven is that now the emperors have no pants, yes,
none of them, like we are now seeing every like
it's a big wake up call. And I was talking
about this in studio with some of the people earlier.
But like you know, we're often kept content in our lives,
(17:58):
those of us in the Western world, so that we're
not paying attention to what's happening in the dark. Yes,
but this is not the case now. We are very
fully aware. We are entrenched. I mean, you know, obviously
some of us are more tied, and we see families
and we still have communities are like Lebanon and Palestine.
But the way that people are watching like it's like
we're all watching the same thing, right, and yet you're
(18:20):
still going to make that decision. You're still going to
stand there and tell us a bold face, lie to
our face, like weird, dumb.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
I think that's what people are starting to finally feel.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
Yeah, I really love that analogy. You know, my boss
at the UN is Palestinian, and she did a lot
of my training, and she's amazing. She's an obguin, she's
a policy expert. We did gender based violence work, maternal
health care work together. But I used to go and
represent the branch at all these big global meetings with
(18:51):
ambassadors and come back and report to the branch. And
I would come back and report the facts and one
day she was like, deshand that you have to read
between the lines when they say this, what are they
really saying? And that's sort of that was one of
my biggest takeaways from working there is I had to
understand here's a diplomatic speak and here's what's actually going on, right,
(19:12):
and the news is like that.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
Right.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
The media is very you know, headlining and attention grabbing,
so they're focused on that, and then you have, you know,
the political rhetoric that's put out there, but what's actually
happening is probably even a little different than that.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
Right.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
So the emperor with no pants, so the emperor is
going to say this, but what's actually happening is now
reported by the journalist on the ground in GUSA, and
people on social media are talking about it, and now
people get there is a story. So as someone who
sort of had an understanding of some of these concepts,
to me, I'm like amazing. The world is seeing this.
People are understanding that there's a lot of genocides happening
(19:54):
right now that they've happened for a long time, and
this awakening, as tragic as it is to see what's unfolding,
the awakening aspect of it to me is really is
a positive piece as movement.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
It is it is, and I think that you know,
I was raised with the same for a bad that
a good doesn't come, and I just I definitely continue
to hope and pray and then do work, not just
not just hope and pray. Yes, but I keep a
hold of those things. I refuse to be hopeless, you know.
And I also feel that you know that there are
(20:29):
just so many people that do want peace that yeah,
and you know, I mean it is a process, but
I hope that we can get there. I want to
move into something really quick, which is the dangers of
Christian Zionism. Yes, you know, quickly, let's just take a
few minutes, because you know, Christian Zionism if you could
quickly define it and its influence right now and the
(20:52):
political landscape as you see.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
It sure a very important piece that does not get
discussed and eily enough. So Christian Zionism is paired with
Zionism and Judaism. And it's the belief that Jewish people
have the right to the Promised Land, which is Israel
and some of the borders around it. You know, it's
part of Lebanon, and you know, and that that is
(21:14):
God's promise to them, and also that in the end
times that this Jewish people will return to this land,
there will be a big battle in Jerusalem, and that's
when Jesus comes. So therefore we must support Israel and
its actions because these are God's people, These are the
chosen people, whether it's with money or prayers or political support.
(21:36):
And the Church has largely bought into this concept because
there have been so many dollars from Jewish Zionism poured
into this brainwashing, even though it has nothing to do
with Christianity. It is a gross misinterpretation of the Bible.
(21:57):
It is the opposite of what Jesus said, and it
is religion being weaponized for political agenda, just like we've
seen done with Buddhism in Sri Lanka. With Islam, it's
just like another war that is fought in the name
of religion that is actually about politics.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
Right in modern colonization in this case specifically modern colonization.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
And yes, and there's colonial roots around a lot of
these genocides. There was in Sri Lanka as well. It
was the British who had a lovely hand in ours
as well. So you know, the actual story in the
Bible is that there was a time in the Bible
that Christians believed that Jewish people represented the Kingdom of God,
and therefore they were brought into Israel.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
Right.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
But then after Jesus came, so two pieces. One going
into the Promised Land was based on obedience to God.
So even though Moses led them through, he was not
allowed to enter the Promised Land because he didn't obey God.
So you can't kill people, slaughter babies and all these
things and think, okay, I can have this land.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
Right, which is right?
Speaker 2 (23:07):
One? Two Jesus said very clearly. It's several times in
the New Testament there was no Jew, nor Greek, nor
a slave nor free. We're all equal, being equal being,
all of God's children were all the same. There was
no chosen favored people after Jesus.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
Right.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
So it is the antithesis of Christianity. And unfortunately this brainwashing.
I mean I grew up here and go in church too.
The Jews are God's chosen people. We must support them.
Is that in the Bible? Is that in the New Testament?
Speaker 1 (23:35):
No?
Speaker 2 (23:36):
Right, So it's it's very it's you know, churches are
giving money to support the war in Israel. They're all
voting for whoever is supporting the war in Israel, which
is red and blue as we right, both sides tend
to support besides a few outliers. But yeah, so it's
a very dangerous, misinformed part of this support for Israel.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
Oh it's so easy to Smiths and say, oh, I
support this idea. Oh, then there's gonna be a war.
I mean, we say this was such privilege because we
haven't felt war in a really long time, like Pearl
Harbor in the United States, but you know, civil war
before then. But we don't people the average person in America,
especially because most of them don't even go into the military, like,
we don't have any concept. It's such an easy thing
(24:19):
to say, yes, what a horrible thing to support.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
And this is what social media has started to break
into the consciousness exactly right, the image of the headless baby.
There's been lots of headless babies, but because one is
documented on social media, meaning lots of headless babies in Palestine,
so the bombs one was documented, it created this mass
surge of support. So yeah, it's making it more tangible
(24:45):
for people.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
Now, exactly what is your message right now to the world,
you know, with the trauma, the healing and even the
power of the narrative that you know you have in
your background, What is your message?
Speaker 2 (24:55):
I would say, One, don't let go of your self
care because a lot of the traumaffects of what you're
seeing is going to surface later. Two, I would say,
what we were talking about about the US versus them,
this is very important to break you know, look beneath
the political narrative, right, so when you're talking to someone
maybe who doesn't support the movement, you know that's a
(25:17):
big thing. You have to break through with them, right.
So really sort of understanding. There's what the media says,
there's what politics says, and then there's the actual truth,
absolutely right, and the truth makes everything very clear. The
facts are there.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
Yeah. Absolutely. Thank you so much for coming and being
with us today.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
I appreciate it. I'm so honored to be here. It
was wonderful talking to you.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
Thank you so much you as well. I want to
close on that because it is it is so important.
I hope that you've gained something in an understanding. What
we want to continue to do through the show is
humanize one another. There is no world where we can't
make this right. But it starts with us. It starts
with action, dedication, empathy, and a willingness to say I'm
(26:02):
going to leave everything behind and we need to start
fresh from this day because you know what I matter,
You matter, We matter together. Thank you so much for
being with us today, Thanks for letting us be unsugarcoated.
We'll see you next episode. Take care,
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