September 5, 2024 • 36 mins
In this episode of UNSUGARCOATED with Aalia, we welcome the multifaceted artist Ali Badshah to discuss his profound connection to Palestine and the ongoing genocide. Ali shares how his passion for activism and truth come into contrast with his acting career and how the suffering in Gaza and the West Bank shape his artistic expressions. Learn the incredible inspiration behind his Amazon Best Selling Book of poetry, “Ghost Flowers.” We delve into themes of trauma, healing, and resilience, exploring how art serves as a powerful tool for advocacy and personal empowerment. Join us as we highlight Ali’s journey, the impact of his work, and the critical role of creativity in standing against oppression and fostering solidarity.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
From UBN Studios. You're listening to Unsugarcoated with Alia, bringing
you interviews with public figures and inspirational people speaking on
self improvement with empowered themes, and I'm your host, Ali Alaneus. Hello,
and welcome back to another episode of Unsugarcoated with Alia,
where we are continuing to talk about critical issues in society.
(00:25):
You know, we'd like to sometimes keep it light and fun,
but we've got real issues going on right now and
we do need to address them. So today we're going
to continue to confront the harsh and urgent realities of
the ongoing genocide in Palestine, a tragedy that is resonating
powerfully with communities around the world, particularly those of Arab
and Middle Eastern descent. The violence and suffering in Gaza
(00:46):
and in the West Bank are not isolated events. They
are part of a broader narrative of oppression and resistance
that demands our attention as well as our action. The
echoes of this genofocide are felt globally, stirring a sense
of urgency and solidarity among those who see their own
histories and identities reflected in the struggle of the Palestinian people.
(01:09):
We also are going to talk about this insidious rise
of fascism and the critical importance of standing against it.
As George Orwell once said, the further a society drifts
from the truth, the more it will eat those that
speak it. This quote underscores the necessity of confronting lies
and oppression with truth and courage. The dehumanization and brutality
(01:31):
that characterize fascist ideologies are not relics of the past.
They are present and pervasive, threatening the very fabric of
our global community. And I really hope you people understand
that that that's not just something we're saying to sound
like we have tinfoil on our head. This is something
that is literally and genuinely a fact, and as such
(01:53):
we have a moral obligation to reject apathy and complicity.
I said in an episode yesterday, I'll quote one of
my favorite people, Paul Robison again, who eloquently said in
nineteen thirty seven, every artist, every scientist, every writer must
decide now where he stands. He has no alternative. There
is no standing above the conflict on Olympian Heights, there
(02:15):
are no impartial observers. The battlefront is everywhere. This sentiment
resonates profoundly today, reminding us that silence is not an
option in the face of injustice. Through our discussion, we're
going to highlight how art and storytelling can serve as
powerful tools for resistance and for healing. And I'm excited
to hear some personal experiences and creative expressions from our
(02:39):
guest today as we aim to amplify the voices of
those affected by this conflict. So join us and let's
get to it. Ali Badshaw is an actor, screenwriter, producer, director, author,
poet and comedian. Ali's remarkable skills have graced OSCAR nominated films,
hit television shows and comedy specials worldwide. Notably start as
(03:00):
the male lead in the OSCAR nominated feature film The Breadwinner,
produced by Angelina Joli, and has written and starred in
five televised comedy specials for CBC, CTV, The Comedy Network,
MTV and ABC two Australia. His first book, Ghost Flowers,
a poetic remedy from the Rebel and Mystic Heart, and
in twenty twenty one, he wrote the animated documentary The
(03:22):
Al Rashied Mosque, the Story of Canada's first Mosque for
Historica Canada. Welcome to the podcast mister Ali Bascha.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Thank you so much. Ali. First of all, I think
what we're doing here is I think just really calling
it out and you know, not sugarcoating it or unsugarcoated,
I think proper. So thank you so much for having
me here. I'm really excited.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
No, thank you, thank you, and please tell our guests
where you're talking to us from today.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Right now, I'm here in Toronto and my little italier
in Toronto, just doing my thing, and yeah, it's like
a beautiful Friday afternoon, and yeah it is.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
I love Toronto. Toronto always has such an amazing vibe.
I'm there every year for Tiff. You know fact actually
true story. The last two TIFFs, I contracted COVID. It's
funny enough, I thought, yeah I went. I went for
the first time ever when I got COVID. I got
it at Tiff right. And then this last year when
I went, I thought, okay, this lightning doesn't strike twice,
but sure enough it did. So, you know, Toronto you're
(04:24):
very very special.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
You know. First first it was Stars, then it was COVID.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
I love that you are in a place where I
think it's so diverse and Canada like America. Also as
a government versus a people. It's very different, right, Like,
it doesn't necessarily match.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
So no, not at all, yeah at all.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
But before we kind of get into that, you please
share with us a few minutes, you know, your early life,
your influences, your connection even to Palestine, and your journey
as an actor and a creative spirit.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
So I was born and raised in Toronto, latch key kid,
only child. My parents immigrated here. My mom was born
in Madagascar, my dad was born in India. Both of
them were raised in Pakistan and that's where they met.
So a bit of a mixed bag culturally, but primarily Pakistani.
I would hope to say that it's Pakistani because I
love Rotia and I love all the food and all
the other stuff. You know, A street kid, no siblings
(05:18):
and you know, kind of left to my own devices,
and thankfully, you know, I sort of survived out of
all that and started out and show business as a dancer.
I was a b boy and like a freestyle house
dancer and that sort of thing. And my career culminated
with me getting offered a gig to go dance for Ditty.
But my girlfriend at the time, I think I was
(05:39):
like nineteen, yeah, but my girlfriend at the time didn't
want me to go, and so I didn't go, and
that sort of led me into comedy because I thought
my dance career was over. I just turned down Ditty.
And now, in hindsight, I'm so grateful that I turned
down Ditty because he would have been you know, he
would have been puff daddying my booty like that whole time.
So I'm so grateful that that that happened. There.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
You're like, I'm too pretty, nun kiddy.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Yeah, so I am too pretty like my face it's
so delicate, you know. And back then, oh my god,
you would have turned me out, and he would have
turned me out.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
You got me crying over you here, laughing on that.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
I knew you were gonna go there with it.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
I knew you were gonna go there with it. Ali,
I'm like, you know, a fellow gen xer, we're not
afraid to say anything. I think, actually this we are
that generation we are.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
We have we feel no shame, we don't have anything
to worry about.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
Right in hindsight, it's always twenty twenty, So that's right.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
I mean, you gotta understand, like I resented this girl
for years years. It's like, oh my god, like this
is my shot, this is my shot. And like because
so many of my friends, like one of my friends
went off to go dance for Jen Jackson, another one one,
you know, dance vir Ginuine, another one danced for You're
Like they were just kind of all over the place,
and so this was my shot and then I didn't
take it right. I'm grateful for how it all turned out.
(06:51):
That's you know, like above and beyond, you know, my
my you know, me keeping my my virginity in that way. Yeah, really,
just a street kid that was just kind of going
through the motions, always spoke out against injustices, you know,
apartheight South Africa as a child was a big thing
for me just because you know, if you grew up
with hip hop and rap music in the eighties, you know,
(07:11):
Public Enemy ex Clan like so much like Brian Nubian
like so like there's so much like like I grew
up with Black Liberation music, right, and so for me
it was like it kind of spoke to something. And
obviously my parents and my family being you know, having
to leave that part of the world or you know,
their homelands because of colonialism and the effects of that.
(07:34):
I was always hyper aware of all that sort of stuff,
and Patine was always on my radar. Like growing up
at home, my dad never shied away from pointing out,
you know, the grave injustices that the Palestinian people had suffered,
and so I kind of always was aware of that
growing up. And then as I started diving into the
(07:58):
industry and encountering you know, Zionism head on in the industry. Uh,
I made a choice really early on to be ten
toes down and and be like, no, you know, the
street the streets got me and you don't, and I'm
calling you out, and it's you know, yeah, it's it's
panned out the way that it has.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
When you're in entertainment or when you have a job.
Let's just say, people who have a job who are
very afraid right now to speak up and say anything.
There have to be the people that are not, and
we're willing to lay it all on the line. Would
rather die a hero or at least if with integrity,
then die a coward.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
One hundred percent, hundred percent. I was very much raised
with like a Shahid martyr mentality. You know, my mom
is a devout Shiah Muslim, and so it's like, you know,
martyrdom is like next to sainthood, right, and martyrdom for
truth and justice exact and for standing up against tyranny
and and you know, standing up and being a voice
(08:58):
for the oppressed and all this stuff. So for me,
this is this is not only its encoded in my dna.
I'm descended from Hazarali. There's a moral imperative. There's a
human moral imperative for us to be standing up, and
those who don't either are chasing the bag or they're
worried about god knows what. Like. You know, that's that's fine,
that's on them, you know, but they're not doing themselves
(09:21):
in favors by doing that.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
Talk to me a little bit about the inspiration behind
Ghost Flowers, you know, I want to hear about I
want to hear about the traumas that inspired that book
of poetry.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
For you, to be quite honest, the genesis of Ghost
Flowers was losing my kids. So I was a single
dad to toddlers and at the time raised them on
my own, and their mom had skipped out and she
came back about a year and a half later, and
then falsely accused me in court of being a terrorist.
(09:54):
And yeah, and then when that didn't work, she accused
me of beating my kids, and then I lost the kids.
And then I spent a year in court clearing my
name and getting my kids back. And then a couple
of years after that, she packed up and went off
grid and disappeared with them. And so I was working
with law enforcement for seven years to find my kids.
(10:14):
It was it was a nightmare. And at the same time,
I'm also having to still move on, like operate within
my life. And you know, when you're in show business,
you have to present. You got just you got to
keep performing, You got to be on all the time,
all the time. And so yeah, So what happened was
(10:36):
is that on social media, I just started writing these
pieces and they started resonating with people, and I was
writing them as therapy for myself, right, just kind of
working through loss and and all this sort of stuff,
and people would write to me and they're like, wow,
you know what, like like this has really helped me
get through this divorce that I'm dealing with, or to
helped me getting over the loss of my child, or
all these sorts of things. But the catalyst for the
(10:58):
book was when Nipsey Hustle passed away. I wrote a
piece I wrote. I wrote a poem and Snoop ended
up seeing it and then he ended up reposting it
in his feed, and so then I get I started
getting hit up by all of these crypt gang members
like rappers who are hitting me up to write for them,
and I'm like, what's going on. They're like, yeah, yeah, unk,
(11:19):
just shared your your piece. And I go into Snoop's
ig and sure enough, there's this piece that I wrote
on there, right and uh. And so I was like, wow, Like,
to me, Snoop is one of the best lyricists ever.
And so for him to rate my pen game, I
was like, Okay, all right, I think I think it
feels good. It feels good, it feels go, especially because
(11:40):
I'm an MC, Like I'm not like, you know, I'm
not I'm not spitting bars or anything like that. Right,
that's like, I'm not, I'm not a rapper, right, But
for him to rate my pen game like that, I
was like, okay, let me, let me, let me put
this together. So I compiled, you know, the best pieces
that resonated with with folks online and wrote a few
more things and and then learned the ins and outsoutshing
and you know, a debut as a number one best seller,
(12:03):
But really it really was a remedy for me writing
it and putting it all together. And an important note too,
I think the keystone and all this is like when
my kids and I were first separated from each other.
I was very much in apostate. I wasn't much into
into any sort of spiritual path at all. In fact,
I would say I was in a really dark place,
but I ended up on the Sufi path. I've been
(12:24):
practicing Sufi for twelve years now, and so a lot
of the a lot of the insights and ghost flowers
come from my journey through dervishood. And you know, if
you're familiar with Rumi or Hafes or you know Shams
or any any of the great Sufi masters, you know,
they all discuss a similar journey of I guess, evolution
(12:49):
of the ego right and cultivation of the heart. So
that's sort of what the genesis was for this whole thing.
It was just a lot of pain that I was
working through and realizing that what I was doing was
helping out other people. Some might as well put it together.
And yeah, and I got the co sign from Snoop
on my on my lyricism, so I was like, let
(13:09):
me go for it. And so that that's ghost flowers
in a nutshell.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
It's amazing that you're able to tick a negative and
turn it into a positive. But you know, also being
a gen exert and just you know, I know resiliency.
I recognize resiliency when I see it. And you know, ultimately,
even in society for people with their everyone has their
coping mechanisms right, and I feel that being able to
be creative is one of the best coping mechanisms for
(13:35):
people who experience trauma, you know, whether it's painting or
writing or singing, and that's it's a that's a beautiful,
you know, representation of that.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
You know, this is mine, I see if this was
my you know, this was part of my destiny. Yes,
so I could I could either just I could let
it beat me or I could transmute it into something.
And I got to say, like it was perfect for me,
and it was perfect for for my kids that you know,
sure we suffered a lot, Like their story is even
(14:06):
more i'd say heroic and like in terms of resilience. Yeah,
I mean, yeah, I'm a gen xer, but this gen
Z right now, I gotta say they got Yah, they
got it. They got something going on.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
For real. This this is true. I do agree with you.
I do agree with you. They'll just never know what
it's like to enjoy their entire childhood do stupid things
and then not actually have it on the internet. That's
probably to me, but otherwise, you know, connecting that to
what we see now in Palestine, I mean, look, I'm
(14:43):
a parent, I'm a parent and a grandparent at this point,
your father who just shared how that how just even
this book was a remedy for losing which you probably
felt was like your soul. You know, when you're looking
at what other parents are going through right now in
Palestine and watching their children be ripped from them, you know,
(15:03):
are there even words really?
Speaker 2 (15:05):
Because I don't think there are you know, we see them.
I think the to me when we talk you you
mentioned resilience, right, and just courage and just you you see,
they're just the level of faith that these people have,
you know, their their children's you know, being their children
(15:26):
being blown to bid blown up to bits and like, so,
I mean, so many horrid things that are happening to them,
and just and yet you know, they're like, no, my God,
you know, my God is my sustainer, and you know,
just really genuinely uh letting go. Yeah, I've never I've
(15:46):
never seen such grace and surrender from a group of
people ever. And the fact that you know, obviously because
of the technology, you know, this is all streaming into
our phones real time. Yeah right, so so just the
raw like nothing's nothing's been edited. It's just the true
(16:11):
humanity and the inhumanity of what's going on that we're witnessing.
And I think, you know, for these parents, like you know,
I mean, just so much power to them and just
you know, prayers for them because it's just such a
my goodness, I can only imagine, I can only imagine
what they're going through. And there really aren't any words
(16:32):
to really capture it.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
I don't think when it comes to the Palestinians, there
is a lot of focus on them because it's day in,
day out. There are also hostages who are caught in this.
There are parents who are you know, whether they are
Israeli or even from another country where their kids should
not be in the middle of this. This is this
entire issue stems from something much larger than October seventh.
(16:55):
But I also can't imagine what it's like for the
parents that have had to deal with knowing that their
child could be alive, could not be alive. Are they
being carried? Are the Israeli bombs getting them? Like I
do want to be fair to the conversation, and as
a parent when I say that, I'm not exclusive to
because I think that's the art. This is what a
lot of people like to do. Is peggott as, Oh,
you just care about the Palestinian lives. No, no, no, no,
(17:17):
we care about all the lives. We do so in
lieu of that conversation. The reality is that for a
lot of us who have the receipts that we've been
on this conversation for a long time, it is the shame,
it is the truth of modern colonization. And October seventh
now has ignited what is already a tinderbox of you know, look, people,
(17:39):
there's a lot of people that believe. And I'm not
going to lie and say I'm not necessarily one of them,
or I guess I would just say, I'm open minded
to the idea that Israel very much allowed this attack
to happen on October so that they could go in
and do what they're doing now.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
Like one hundred percent. So up until very recently, I
was in a relationship with an Ashcar Nazi Jewish woman
who grew up in a Zigonis home. I was in
a relationship with her for three years and it ended
over this genocide. Actually, in twenty twenty two, I told
her that Israel was going to commit full blown genocide
(18:15):
in Za. They were totally going to do that. The
writing was on the wall, and they weren't going to
stop until either every all two million plus people were
either killed or removed one way or another because of
the natural gas, because of this, Because of that, and
I kind of went to a litany of stuff, and
the writing has been on the wall. This goes much
(18:38):
farther back than October seventh. And the challenge is that
particularly in North America and and you know, be it
the angle, I would say, rather the anglosphere and much
of Europe, which doesn't that's not the majority of the world.
In fact, that's still the global minority However, their virtual
monopoly on media and you know, quote unquote news perpetuates
(19:04):
one particular story like it is an example. You know. Obviously,
beheaded children in Rufa hasn't hit any major news outlet
at all. Meanwhile, in Canada, they're talking about three Jewish
schools that were shot in the middle of the night,
one in Toronto, one in Montreal, and one in another city.
(19:26):
They haven't you know, apparently there's video footage, but they
haven't released who's done it. That's dominating the news cycle.
As a parent, we don't want any of our children
to be harmed, and we're always concerned. My challenge with
the entire thing is that, yes, hostages are caught up there,
but the entire news cycle has been focused for eight
(19:51):
months now on them return the hostages, return the hostages.
Israel doesn't want the hostages back. What do you want?
Speaker 1 (19:59):
They were offered up quite early and because it didn't
serve the purpose, because a lot of people have a
hard time seeing like no, because once they gave the
hostages then a cease fire would have been expected. But
as long as there's no ceasefire in place, Hey, they
don't listen, you know, the Israeli government do not listen
to anyone. And I want to say two things something
you just said with the media won't say now these
(20:19):
numbers like this forty fifty thousand number that they keep
toting around since last year. I said last year, it's
already hit. If you look at the footage, if you
know that in days there were days when eight hundred
to one thousand people were getting taken out just by
one bomb, when you know that they're now going back
and rebombing already bombed buildings to incinerate the bodies, so
(20:40):
that we don't have an official count, right the way
that the UN works, They only count if your body
can be fully identified. Right, So I could have a
bag as we've seen on videos of hands and feet,
but hey, maybe that persons still alive. So who cares
how many body pieces we have here. We're not counting
that as a one person. And by the way, thinking
about the DNA project that going to have to be
(21:00):
done at the end of this no differently, to connect
people to any type of surviving family members they might
have is absolutely going to be required. But more importantly
so the media doesn't want to put out that. In reality,
let me say this, and I'm going to say this
to my audience quite confidently that mark my words, and
I mean I'm going to say, actually a loone number,
(21:20):
but there is no way that there is not at
least one hundred thousand people who have already been killed
and are continuing to die. Because you have people that
died from the impact on the moment of you have
the people dying never making it out of an ICU
because there's no proper medical care. Right then you have
people dying from nutrition from disease. You know, it takes
me and you three days to maybe start dying if
(21:43):
we don't have food and water. Imagine a child like
the way that it is happening. It's just absolutely no
way that that it's already at at least one hundred k, if.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
Not more six figure and there is no doubt.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
And when this is all done, you know, everyone's gonna
be Oh if only I had known. No, no, no,
you knew, you just chose not to do anything about it.
I'm so glad that there are celebrities and artists who
are willing to stand up and say forget all this.
Humanity is humanity, and we want to be on the
right side of it, any protest you're seeing right now.
And I always find it so amusing, not amusing at all,
(22:18):
but interesting to me that they want to say that
these protests are violent when they're not. I was at
the UCLA encampment, I was at USC. I was actually
at the Washington, d C. Major protests there that was,
you know, tens of thousands of people in January and
no violence. You know, if you're standing out there protesting
(22:38):
for Palestine, you're protesting to stop a genocide for humanity, right.
And then I'm saying this to say that, you know,
people have an issue with that. So you have to
look at those people because historically we have this. When
the women's suffrage movement went through North America, it's not
like when they stood on the street they were clapped
and honked. No, they were beaten by men right when
(23:00):
the civil rights movement happened, whether they just sat quietly
or whether it was a little six year old girl
going to school who had to have a marshall with her,
it was these negative, ugly people that were protesting that
very thing. So it's very interesting. It's not the protesters,
it's the people protesting the protests that I feel. Yeah,
you know, so you were at a protest, you were
actually interviewed on camera. Tell me what was that experience
(23:22):
like for you and how you know, are what have
been what has been the positive and negative.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
Of that for you? I think that was what two
weeks I think that was two weeks in from October seventh.
It was like the first major protest in Toronto. And
you know, I mean previous to that, in twenty twenty one,
we were having massive protests, Palestinian protests in Toronto, and
so you know that particular one, you know that it
(23:48):
was in front of the US consulate. You know, again
completely safe, like it's all peaceful protests, right. Violence is
only really coming in when Israeli trained, militarized US police
officers and Zionist antagonizers are coming in and you know,
and kicking off violence. That's really what's been the trigger. Right.
(24:12):
But my experience has been incredibly peaceful. There haven't been
any any challenges around that at all. But you know,
I will share like an anecdote because I mentioned twenty
twenty one. Back then there was so much violence happening
in Palestine that my TikTok was blowing up because I
(24:35):
was putting up these rants about Israel, and I'd done
one around the fear in Hollywood or the fear in
film and television around the Zionist entity, right because you
get blackballed, you might you're not going to get work
in this down whatever. That led to an article being
(24:57):
written by Now Magazine. Now Magazine is a publication and
arts magazine publication, and the article was about Canadian artists
fearing backlash over anti Israeli sentiment. Right in that article,
you know, I mentioned I said it very clearly. I'm like,
anti Zionism is pro Semitism. At the time I was
(25:19):
on I had a recurring role on Work in Moms,
which is on Netflix, and literally the day after that
article came out, I got word that I had been
written out of the show Wow and yeah yeah, And
my agent was just like, oh, it's a coincidence. I'm like, yeah, yeah,
it's a coincidence, right, and whatever it is what it is. Yes,
(25:41):
maybe it was a coincidence. I don't know. But all
this to say that it may not be like the
protests here have been relatively peaceful, but that's not to
say that there aren't other dangers lurking for anyone who's
on the right side of humanity with this, you know,
from getting docs to losing your losing your job or
(26:04):
you know, all sorts of different things, and all for what.
Because we don't want people getting murdered on mass right
like that, That's really what it is. So it's an
interesting state of affairs, that's for sure.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
I think it is absolutely a sad state of affairs.
And you know, it is sad to see people just
standing up for these injustices, being oppressed, being kicked out,
being dragged out, being arrested. It just, you know, it
just seems so dystopian like it really it feels like
Hunger Games. You know, you and I are gen Xers.
We did not grow up rooting for Darth Vader, I mean,
(26:36):
and if ever there was a Thanos moment, how do
people not see that?
Speaker 2 (26:41):
This is it?
Speaker 1 (26:42):
Watching the UN Security councils, watching our government speak, watching
Canadian government speak, watching German government, French Parliament, UK, watching
you know, all the South African and I see the
differences right between Ireland than what you're seeing you know here,
and I think it's a big issue and I want
(27:03):
to bring this up before we end up closing out.
For us, there's an upcoming election. I remember being in
candidate and when Trump was last president. I remember I
would just always get comments from my my Uber drivers
in Toronto They're like, so, so, what's up with your guy?
Speaker 2 (27:19):
Right?
Speaker 1 (27:19):
And I'm just like, like, he's not my guy. And
even now, like you know, like to be honest, Ali,
I don't know, you know, how your guys' political scene
is right now. But I know for us, like we
have an upcoming election and we have two options that
I don't feel if either of them win, we're winning
as a country.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
Great.
Speaker 3 (27:38):
Oh yeah, No, you guys have been set up to fail,
exactly set to fail, you know, and that's also by design, right,
Like I think if you look at the larger global
picture right between between the depegging of you know, the
petro dollar and the bricks nations moving off the US
dollar and the scramble that know.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
Of this failing empire exactly right, And not just America,
I think it's the entire anglosphere, right, Like, you know,
we're seeing fascism kick up here in major ways across
North America. It hasn't hit Australia yet obviously austerity measures
in the UK and more institutional violence happening over there.
(28:22):
But all this to say that, yeah, you know, America,
you guys don't have many options at all. Like, Okay,
Jill Stein and doctor Cornell West are great if they
were both on if they were both on a bill together, right,
maybe that actually has a chance. However, right the you know,
I think George Carlin kind of said it best, right,
like the people that own this country in these countries, right,
(28:43):
they operate in a completely different way like the president
and you know, the prime ministers. That's the illusion of
choice that's given to us, right, right, you know, it
doesn't like as much as as much as our vote
counts on a local level, and you know we can
sway exactly.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
There's a reason we don't have that with the presidential vote.
You're absolutely right, you are absolutely right. Fascism Fascism is
the apps. Like, look, Mussolini was fascist, Stalin was fascist,
Leopold the Second was fascist. And of course we all
know Hitler, right, But it's funny how people always hit
I keep saying this, like people hit on Hitler, But
I'm like, you guys, realize he wasn't the only bad guy.
(29:23):
He's not the standard. He is just an example fascism
coupled with, of course, like corporate greed and you know,
the war machine. But fascism is a group of people
saying we can do whatever we want, whether it's moral,
whether it's right, whether it's wrong, whether it violates you know,
crimes against humanity. We can do whatever we want because
we believe we have the right to do so, we
(29:43):
have a purpose, we have agenda. Nothing will stop us.
And that is fascism. So, you know, George Orwell when
he wrote about nineteen eighty four is a book for
some people. If you haven't read it, you know, go
read it because it just completely talks about fascism in
democracy and how at the end of the day it
is why it's always been the biggest threat to democracy,
(30:04):
because once you're dealing with that mentality, that fascist mentality,
it's what we're seeing now, then people don't matter. Your life,
your humanity, your children, they don't matter. So when you're
watching it, I mean I say this, like, look justin
Trudeau's and I'm not a fan of his. I hope
they don't stop me when I try to come to
Tiff This year, but like, like that you didn't say
(30:26):
nice things about Justin. I'll be like, listen, man, if
he wants to have a conversation with me that far, I.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
Don't say anything nice about Justin at all.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
But you know, it's like, how does it feel for you?
I mean, I know how I feel as an American?
How does it feel for you to like be in what?
And I just have to say this. Everyone's always like,
but connect Canada's the nice people right in to see
the government.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
Like it's a sham, it's a complete it's a complete fraud.
Canada had residential schools up until the nineties. The nineteen
nineties residential schools were these schools or Indigenous Canadian folks
were forcibly put in and stripped of their identity and
you know, they were oftentimes killed in these schools. Like like,
(31:08):
Canada's actual track record is horrific, absolutely horrific. But they
but Canada plays like it's a nice guy. You know,
we're getting slammed on so like the taxation here and
not like and I'm not you know, like oh anti
tax whatever, but like we're getting slammed hard cost of
living here. Everything's going through the roof, They've limited our
(31:32):
access to news through social media. The US dollar and
hyperinflation in the US is going to happen, there's no
way around it. And when that happens, it's Canada. It's
already happened. Yeah, And Canada our economy is directly tied
to America. You're our largest trading partner, over eighty percent
(31:53):
of our trades with America. Right, so they're gonna clamp
down on us so hard here. I'm like, I'm already
working on my exit strategy. Yeah, Like I love Toronto,
but yeah, I think my hunch is that the anglosphere
is going to start feeling a lot like what you know,
(32:15):
quote unquote the third world used to be like in
like you on the seventies and in the eighties.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
These things have ripple effects that are going to impact
our societies. And it's real easy to be super judgmental
and talk about, oh, people can starve and die when
it doesn't impact you. But when it does, I always
warn on that, and I would say, you know, he
who laughs first laughs last. So this cocky arrogance that
the West has had, and especially now because that's the
(32:41):
other thing what this event since ten seven, like I
keep saying the Emperor has no pants, but also like
the greater world, Like if I'm America and I'm showing
the whole world I don't care what they think, well,
then the whole world is not going to care about
me and what I think. So it's going to come
back that energy, that karmic debt again.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
You know.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
So what is your message to people right now? What
would you like to say before we leave our time
with you?
Speaker 2 (33:05):
Yeah, I think I think the number one thing would
be for us to be gentle with ourselves, right Like
I think, you know, with with all the strife and
all the suffering that we're experiencing and that we're witnessing,
and you know, catching all of these injustices and and
and all of these things, there's there's a tendency in
(33:26):
us to want to change that external uh you know, uh,
in order to to really have an impact. But the
but the major impact actually really starts with us turning
inward and doing that work. Like if we are a
point of strength and courage and serenity, uh, you know,
(33:47):
that energy is going to multiply, and that's going to
transfer over and that's what's going to have the real impact,
right if we're operating from a place of uh reaction,
because we're seeing these injustices as opposed to okay, witnessing
the injustice, but coming at it from a place of
justice and you know, and sound resolution. That's a different thing,
(34:11):
and that only comes from us being gentle with ourselves.
So I think that's that's, you know, and I don't
think we're doing that. We're nowhere near nice enough to ourselves. Yeah, right,
And so I think it's like I think just kind
of I.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
Know, I have to say whenever I think about somebody
being aggressive to me, we're right now. I can't lie.
And people think I'm crazy for this, but my initial
instinct is to want to hug them because I think
we're all hurting. Now if you be always hold up
because if I will to hug you, and then you
don't want the huggle to find But it's like that's
my initial response. But hey, I'm going to match anybody's energy, right,
(34:47):
you know, But like just but I say that more
of like the be kind to ourselves and be kind
to each other too, because it's like we're all just
really we are all hurting, some hurting for different reasons,
and I'm not like gonna you know, I'm gonna be
on sugarcoated about that, but still like, how can we
be better? Thank you so much for your time and
energy today. You know, when you're in la we definitely
(35:08):
got to hook up. When I'm in Toronto, we gotta
definitely connect. So, you know, thank you so much for
being with us today. I appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
Oh my pleasure. Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (35:16):
Thank you, thank you, and to everyone at home again.
You know, these conversations are intended to hopefully give you,
inspire you, or give you a reason to go do
more research. If you don't know the information, please go
learn it. If you don't have the friends, if you
don't know Palestinians, go find them. If you don't know
non Zionist Jews, please go find them. I have to
(35:36):
tell you there is solutions to our problems. We just
have to be willing to put forth the effort and
energy to do to find them and make them happen.
So thank you so much, thanks for letting us be unsugarcoated.
We'll see you next time.
From UBN Studios. You're listening to Unsugarcoated with Alia, bringing
you interviews with public figures and inspirational people speaking on
self improvement with empowered themes, and I'm your host, Ali Alaneus. Hello,
and welcome back to another episode of Unsugarcoated with Alia,
where we are continuing to talk about critical issues in society.
(00:25):
You know, we'd like to sometimes keep it light and fun,
but we've got real issues going on right now and
we do need to address them. So today we're going
to continue to confront the harsh and urgent realities of
the ongoing genocide in Palestine, a tragedy that is resonating
powerfully with communities around the world, particularly those of Arab
and Middle Eastern descent. The violence and suffering in Gaza
(00:46):
and in the West Bank are not isolated events. They
are part of a broader narrative of oppression and resistance
that demands our attention as well as our action. The
echoes of this genofocide are felt globally, stirring a sense
of urgency and solidarity among those who see their own
histories and identities reflected in the struggle of the Palestinian people.
(01:09):
We also are going to talk about this insidious rise
of fascism and the critical importance of standing against it.
As George Orwell once said, the further a society drifts
from the truth, the more it will eat those that
speak it. This quote underscores the necessity of confronting lies
and oppression with truth and courage. The dehumanization and brutality
(01:31):
that characterize fascist ideologies are not relics of the past.
They are present and pervasive, threatening the very fabric of
our global community. And I really hope you people understand
that that that's not just something we're saying to sound
like we have tinfoil on our head. This is something
that is literally and genuinely a fact, and as such
(01:53):
we have a moral obligation to reject apathy and complicity.
I said in an episode yesterday, I'll quote one of
my favorite people, Paul Robison again, who eloquently said in
nineteen thirty seven, every artist, every scientist, every writer must
decide now where he stands. He has no alternative. There
is no standing above the conflict on Olympian Heights, there
(02:15):
are no impartial observers. The battlefront is everywhere. This sentiment
resonates profoundly today, reminding us that silence is not an
option in the face of injustice. Through our discussion, we're
going to highlight how art and storytelling can serve as
powerful tools for resistance and for healing. And I'm excited
to hear some personal experiences and creative expressions from our
(02:39):
guest today as we aim to amplify the voices of
those affected by this conflict. So join us and let's
get to it. Ali Badshaw is an actor, screenwriter, producer, director, author,
poet and comedian. Ali's remarkable skills have graced OSCAR nominated films,
hit television shows and comedy specials worldwide. Notably start as
(03:00):
the male lead in the OSCAR nominated feature film The Breadwinner,
produced by Angelina Joli, and has written and starred in
five televised comedy specials for CBC, CTV, The Comedy Network,
MTV and ABC two Australia. His first book, Ghost Flowers,
a poetic remedy from the Rebel and Mystic Heart, and
in twenty twenty one, he wrote the animated documentary The
(03:22):
Al Rashied Mosque, the Story of Canada's first Mosque for
Historica Canada. Welcome to the podcast mister Ali Bascha.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Thank you so much. Ali. First of all, I think
what we're doing here is I think just really calling
it out and you know, not sugarcoating it or unsugarcoated,
I think proper. So thank you so much for having
me here. I'm really excited.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
No, thank you, thank you, and please tell our guests
where you're talking to us from today.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Right now, I'm here in Toronto and my little italier
in Toronto, just doing my thing, and yeah, it's like
a beautiful Friday afternoon, and yeah it is.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
I love Toronto. Toronto always has such an amazing vibe.
I'm there every year for Tiff. You know fact actually
true story. The last two TIFFs, I contracted COVID. It's
funny enough, I thought, yeah I went. I went for
the first time ever when I got COVID. I got
it at Tiff right. And then this last year when
I went, I thought, okay, this lightning doesn't strike twice,
but sure enough it did. So, you know, Toronto you're
(04:24):
very very special.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
You know. First first it was Stars, then it was COVID.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
I love that you are in a place where I
think it's so diverse and Canada like America. Also as
a government versus a people. It's very different, right, Like,
it doesn't necessarily match.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
So no, not at all, yeah at all.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
But before we kind of get into that, you please
share with us a few minutes, you know, your early life,
your influences, your connection even to Palestine, and your journey
as an actor and a creative spirit.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
So I was born and raised in Toronto, latch key kid,
only child. My parents immigrated here. My mom was born
in Madagascar, my dad was born in India. Both of
them were raised in Pakistan and that's where they met.
So a bit of a mixed bag culturally, but primarily Pakistani.
I would hope to say that it's Pakistani because I
love Rotia and I love all the food and all
the other stuff. You know, A street kid, no siblings
(05:18):
and you know, kind of left to my own devices,
and thankfully, you know, I sort of survived out of
all that and started out and show business as a dancer.
I was a b boy and like a freestyle house
dancer and that sort of thing. And my career culminated
with me getting offered a gig to go dance for Ditty.
But my girlfriend at the time, I think I was
(05:39):
like nineteen, yeah, but my girlfriend at the time didn't
want me to go, and so I didn't go, and
that sort of led me into comedy because I thought
my dance career was over. I just turned down Ditty.
And now, in hindsight, I'm so grateful that I turned
down Ditty because he would have been you know, he
would have been puff daddying my booty like that whole time.
So I'm so grateful that that that happened. There.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
You're like, I'm too pretty, nun kiddy.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Yeah, so I am too pretty like my face it's
so delicate, you know. And back then, oh my god,
you would have turned me out, and he would have
turned me out.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
You got me crying over you here, laughing on that.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
I knew you were gonna go there with it.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
I knew you were gonna go there with it. Ali,
I'm like, you know, a fellow gen xer, we're not
afraid to say anything. I think, actually this we are
that generation we are.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
We have we feel no shame, we don't have anything
to worry about.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
Right in hindsight, it's always twenty twenty, So that's right.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
I mean, you gotta understand, like I resented this girl
for years years. It's like, oh my god, like this
is my shot, this is my shot. And like because
so many of my friends, like one of my friends
went off to go dance for Jen Jackson, another one one,
you know, dance vir Ginuine, another one danced for You're
Like they were just kind of all over the place,
and so this was my shot and then I didn't
take it right. I'm grateful for how it all turned out.
(06:51):
That's you know, like above and beyond, you know, my
my you know, me keeping my my virginity in that way. Yeah, really,
just a street kid that was just kind of going
through the motions, always spoke out against injustices, you know,
apartheight South Africa as a child was a big thing
for me just because you know, if you grew up
with hip hop and rap music in the eighties, you know,
(07:11):
Public Enemy ex Clan like so much like Brian Nubian
like so like there's so much like like I grew
up with Black Liberation music, right, and so for me
it was like it kind of spoke to something. And
obviously my parents and my family being you know, having
to leave that part of the world or you know,
their homelands because of colonialism and the effects of that.
(07:34):
I was always hyper aware of all that sort of stuff,
and Patine was always on my radar. Like growing up
at home, my dad never shied away from pointing out,
you know, the grave injustices that the Palestinian people had suffered,
and so I kind of always was aware of that
growing up. And then as I started diving into the
(07:58):
industry and encountering you know, Zionism head on in the industry. Uh,
I made a choice really early on to be ten
toes down and and be like, no, you know, the
street the streets got me and you don't, and I'm
calling you out, and it's you know, yeah, it's it's
panned out the way that it has.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
When you're in entertainment or when you have a job.
Let's just say, people who have a job who are
very afraid right now to speak up and say anything.
There have to be the people that are not, and
we're willing to lay it all on the line. Would
rather die a hero or at least if with integrity,
then die a coward.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
One hundred percent, hundred percent. I was very much raised
with like a Shahid martyr mentality. You know, my mom
is a devout Shiah Muslim, and so it's like, you know,
martyrdom is like next to sainthood, right, and martyrdom for
truth and justice exact and for standing up against tyranny
and and you know, standing up and being a voice
(08:58):
for the oppressed and all this stuff. So for me,
this is this is not only its encoded in my dna.
I'm descended from Hazarali. There's a moral imperative. There's a
human moral imperative for us to be standing up, and
those who don't either are chasing the bag or they're
worried about god knows what. Like. You know, that's that's fine,
that's on them, you know, but they're not doing themselves
(09:21):
in favors by doing that.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
Talk to me a little bit about the inspiration behind
Ghost Flowers, you know, I want to hear about I
want to hear about the traumas that inspired that book
of poetry.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
For you, to be quite honest, the genesis of Ghost
Flowers was losing my kids. So I was a single
dad to toddlers and at the time raised them on
my own, and their mom had skipped out and she
came back about a year and a half later, and
then falsely accused me in court of being a terrorist.
(09:54):
And yeah, and then when that didn't work, she accused
me of beating my kids, and then I lost the kids.
And then I spent a year in court clearing my
name and getting my kids back. And then a couple
of years after that, she packed up and went off
grid and disappeared with them. And so I was working
with law enforcement for seven years to find my kids.
(10:14):
It was it was a nightmare. And at the same time,
I'm also having to still move on, like operate within
my life. And you know, when you're in show business,
you have to present. You got just you got to
keep performing, You got to be on all the time,
all the time. And so yeah, So what happened was
(10:36):
is that on social media, I just started writing these
pieces and they started resonating with people, and I was
writing them as therapy for myself, right, just kind of
working through loss and and all this sort of stuff,
and people would write to me and they're like, wow,
you know what, like like this has really helped me
get through this divorce that I'm dealing with, or to
helped me getting over the loss of my child, or
all these sorts of things. But the catalyst for the
(10:58):
book was when Nipsey Hustle passed away. I wrote a
piece I wrote. I wrote a poem and Snoop ended
up seeing it and then he ended up reposting it
in his feed, and so then I get I started
getting hit up by all of these crypt gang members
like rappers who are hitting me up to write for them,
and I'm like, what's going on. They're like, yeah, yeah, unk,
(11:19):
just shared your your piece. And I go into Snoop's
ig and sure enough, there's this piece that I wrote
on there, right and uh. And so I was like, wow, Like,
to me, Snoop is one of the best lyricists ever.
And so for him to rate my pen game, I
was like, Okay, all right, I think I think it
feels good. It feels good, it feels go, especially because
(11:40):
I'm an MC, Like I'm not like, you know, I'm
not I'm not spitting bars or anything like that. Right,
that's like, I'm not, I'm not a rapper, right, But
for him to rate my pen game like that, I
was like, okay, let me, let me, let me put
this together. So I compiled, you know, the best pieces
that resonated with with folks online and wrote a few
more things and and then learned the ins and outsoutshing
and you know, a debut as a number one best seller,
(12:03):
But really it really was a remedy for me writing
it and putting it all together. And an important note too,
I think the keystone and all this is like when
my kids and I were first separated from each other.
I was very much in apostate. I wasn't much into
into any sort of spiritual path at all. In fact,
I would say I was in a really dark place,
but I ended up on the Sufi path. I've been
(12:24):
practicing Sufi for twelve years now, and so a lot
of the a lot of the insights and ghost flowers
come from my journey through dervishood. And you know, if
you're familiar with Rumi or Hafes or you know Shams
or any any of the great Sufi masters, you know,
they all discuss a similar journey of I guess, evolution
(12:49):
of the ego right and cultivation of the heart. So
that's sort of what the genesis was for this whole thing.
It was just a lot of pain that I was
working through and realizing that what I was doing was
helping out other people. Some might as well put it together.
And yeah, and I got the co sign from Snoop
on my on my lyricism, so I was like, let
(13:09):
me go for it. And so that that's ghost flowers
in a nutshell.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
It's amazing that you're able to tick a negative and
turn it into a positive. But you know, also being
a gen exert and just you know, I know resiliency.
I recognize resiliency when I see it. And you know, ultimately,
even in society for people with their everyone has their
coping mechanisms right, and I feel that being able to
be creative is one of the best coping mechanisms for
(13:35):
people who experience trauma, you know, whether it's painting or
writing or singing, and that's it's a that's a beautiful,
you know, representation of that.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
You know, this is mine, I see if this was
my you know, this was part of my destiny. Yes,
so I could I could either just I could let
it beat me or I could transmute it into something.
And I got to say, like it was perfect for me,
and it was perfect for for my kids that you know,
sure we suffered a lot, Like their story is even
(14:06):
more i'd say heroic and like in terms of resilience. Yeah,
I mean, yeah, I'm a gen xer, but this gen
Z right now, I gotta say they got Yah, they
got it. They got something going on.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
For real. This this is true. I do agree with you.
I do agree with you. They'll just never know what
it's like to enjoy their entire childhood do stupid things
and then not actually have it on the internet. That's
probably to me, but otherwise, you know, connecting that to
what we see now in Palestine, I mean, look, I'm
(14:43):
a parent, I'm a parent and a grandparent at this point,
your father who just shared how that how just even
this book was a remedy for losing which you probably
felt was like your soul. You know, when you're looking
at what other parents are going through right now in
Palestine and watching their children be ripped from them, you know,
(15:03):
are there even words really?
Speaker 2 (15:05):
Because I don't think there are you know, we see them.
I think the to me when we talk you you
mentioned resilience, right, and just courage and just you you see,
they're just the level of faith that these people have,
you know, their their children's you know, being their children
(15:26):
being blown to bid blown up to bits and like, so,
I mean, so many horrid things that are happening to them,
and just and yet you know, they're like, no, my God,
you know, my God is my sustainer, and you know,
just really genuinely uh letting go. Yeah, I've never I've
(15:46):
never seen such grace and surrender from a group of
people ever. And the fact that you know, obviously because
of the technology, you know, this is all streaming into
our phones real time. Yeah right, so so just the
raw like nothing's nothing's been edited. It's just the true
(16:11):
humanity and the inhumanity of what's going on that we're witnessing.
And I think, you know, for these parents, like you know,
I mean, just so much power to them and just
you know, prayers for them because it's just such a
my goodness, I can only imagine, I can only imagine
what they're going through. And there really aren't any words
(16:32):
to really capture it.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
I don't think when it comes to the Palestinians, there
is a lot of focus on them because it's day in,
day out. There are also hostages who are caught in this.
There are parents who are you know, whether they are
Israeli or even from another country where their kids should
not be in the middle of this. This is this
entire issue stems from something much larger than October seventh.
(16:55):
But I also can't imagine what it's like for the
parents that have had to deal with knowing that their
child could be alive, could not be alive. Are they
being carried? Are the Israeli bombs getting them? Like I
do want to be fair to the conversation, and as
a parent when I say that, I'm not exclusive to
because I think that's the art. This is what a
lot of people like to do. Is peggott as, Oh,
you just care about the Palestinian lives. No, no, no, no,
(17:17):
we care about all the lives. We do so in
lieu of that conversation. The reality is that for a
lot of us who have the receipts that we've been
on this conversation for a long time, it is the shame,
it is the truth of modern colonization. And October seventh
now has ignited what is already a tinderbox of you know, look, people,
(17:39):
there's a lot of people that believe. And I'm not
going to lie and say I'm not necessarily one of them,
or I guess I would just say, I'm open minded
to the idea that Israel very much allowed this attack
to happen on October so that they could go in
and do what they're doing now.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
Like one hundred percent. So up until very recently, I
was in a relationship with an Ashcar Nazi Jewish woman
who grew up in a Zigonis home. I was in
a relationship with her for three years and it ended
over this genocide. Actually, in twenty twenty two, I told
her that Israel was going to commit full blown genocide
(18:15):
in Za. They were totally going to do that. The
writing was on the wall, and they weren't going to
stop until either every all two million plus people were
either killed or removed one way or another because of
the natural gas, because of this, Because of that, and
I kind of went to a litany of stuff, and
the writing has been on the wall. This goes much
(18:38):
farther back than October seventh. And the challenge is that
particularly in North America and and you know, be it
the angle, I would say, rather the anglosphere and much
of Europe, which doesn't that's not the majority of the world.
In fact, that's still the global minority However, their virtual
monopoly on media and you know, quote unquote news perpetuates
(19:04):
one particular story like it is an example. You know. Obviously,
beheaded children in Rufa hasn't hit any major news outlet
at all. Meanwhile, in Canada, they're talking about three Jewish
schools that were shot in the middle of the night,
one in Toronto, one in Montreal, and one in another city.
(19:26):
They haven't you know, apparently there's video footage, but they
haven't released who's done it. That's dominating the news cycle.
As a parent, we don't want any of our children
to be harmed, and we're always concerned. My challenge with
the entire thing is that, yes, hostages are caught up there,
but the entire news cycle has been focused for eight
(19:51):
months now on them return the hostages, return the hostages.
Israel doesn't want the hostages back. What do you want?
Speaker 1 (19:59):
They were offered up quite early and because it didn't
serve the purpose, because a lot of people have a
hard time seeing like no, because once they gave the
hostages then a cease fire would have been expected. But
as long as there's no ceasefire in place, Hey, they
don't listen, you know, the Israeli government do not listen
to anyone. And I want to say two things something
you just said with the media won't say now these
(20:19):
numbers like this forty fifty thousand number that they keep
toting around since last year. I said last year, it's
already hit. If you look at the footage, if you
know that in days there were days when eight hundred
to one thousand people were getting taken out just by
one bomb, when you know that they're now going back
and rebombing already bombed buildings to incinerate the bodies, so
(20:40):
that we don't have an official count, right the way
that the UN works, They only count if your body
can be fully identified. Right, So I could have a
bag as we've seen on videos of hands and feet,
but hey, maybe that persons still alive. So who cares
how many body pieces we have here. We're not counting
that as a one person. And by the way, thinking
about the DNA project that going to have to be
(21:00):
done at the end of this no differently, to connect
people to any type of surviving family members they might
have is absolutely going to be required. But more importantly
so the media doesn't want to put out that. In reality,
let me say this, and I'm going to say this
to my audience quite confidently that mark my words, and
I mean I'm going to say, actually a loone number,
(21:20):
but there is no way that there is not at
least one hundred thousand people who have already been killed
and are continuing to die. Because you have people that
died from the impact on the moment of you have
the people dying never making it out of an ICU
because there's no proper medical care. Right then you have
people dying from nutrition from disease. You know, it takes
me and you three days to maybe start dying if
(21:43):
we don't have food and water. Imagine a child like
the way that it is happening. It's just absolutely no
way that that it's already at at least one hundred k, if.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
Not more six figure and there is no doubt.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
And when this is all done, you know, everyone's gonna
be Oh if only I had known. No, no, no,
you knew, you just chose not to do anything about it.
I'm so glad that there are celebrities and artists who
are willing to stand up and say forget all this.
Humanity is humanity, and we want to be on the
right side of it, any protest you're seeing right now.
And I always find it so amusing, not amusing at all,
(22:18):
but interesting to me that they want to say that
these protests are violent when they're not. I was at
the UCLA encampment, I was at USC. I was actually
at the Washington, d C. Major protests there that was,
you know, tens of thousands of people in January and
no violence. You know, if you're standing out there protesting
(22:38):
for Palestine, you're protesting to stop a genocide for humanity, right.
And then I'm saying this to say that, you know,
people have an issue with that. So you have to
look at those people because historically we have this. When
the women's suffrage movement went through North America, it's not
like when they stood on the street they were clapped
and honked. No, they were beaten by men right when
(23:00):
the civil rights movement happened, whether they just sat quietly
or whether it was a little six year old girl
going to school who had to have a marshall with her,
it was these negative, ugly people that were protesting that
very thing. So it's very interesting. It's not the protesters,
it's the people protesting the protests that I feel. Yeah,
you know, so you were at a protest, you were
actually interviewed on camera. Tell me what was that experience
(23:22):
like for you and how you know, are what have
been what has been the positive and negative.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
Of that for you? I think that was what two
weeks I think that was two weeks in from October seventh.
It was like the first major protest in Toronto. And
you know, I mean previous to that, in twenty twenty one,
we were having massive protests, Palestinian protests in Toronto, and
so you know that particular one, you know that it
(23:48):
was in front of the US consulate. You know, again
completely safe, like it's all peaceful protests, right. Violence is
only really coming in when Israeli trained, militarized US police
officers and Zionist antagonizers are coming in and you know,
and kicking off violence. That's really what's been the trigger. Right.
(24:12):
But my experience has been incredibly peaceful. There haven't been
any any challenges around that at all. But you know,
I will share like an anecdote because I mentioned twenty
twenty one. Back then there was so much violence happening
in Palestine that my TikTok was blowing up because I
(24:35):
was putting up these rants about Israel, and I'd done
one around the fear in Hollywood or the fear in
film and television around the Zionist entity, right because you
get blackballed, you might you're not going to get work
in this down whatever. That led to an article being
(24:57):
written by Now Magazine. Now Magazine is a publication and
arts magazine publication, and the article was about Canadian artists
fearing backlash over anti Israeli sentiment. Right in that article,
you know, I mentioned I said it very clearly. I'm like,
anti Zionism is pro Semitism. At the time I was
(25:19):
on I had a recurring role on Work in Moms,
which is on Netflix, and literally the day after that
article came out, I got word that I had been
written out of the show Wow and yeah yeah, And
my agent was just like, oh, it's a coincidence. I'm like, yeah, yeah,
it's a coincidence, right, and whatever it is what it is. Yes,
(25:41):
maybe it was a coincidence. I don't know. But all
this to say that it may not be like the
protests here have been relatively peaceful, but that's not to
say that there aren't other dangers lurking for anyone who's
on the right side of humanity with this, you know,
from getting docs to losing your losing your job or
(26:04):
you know, all sorts of different things, and all for what.
Because we don't want people getting murdered on mass right
like that, That's really what it is. So it's an
interesting state of affairs, that's for sure.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
I think it is absolutely a sad state of affairs.
And you know, it is sad to see people just
standing up for these injustices, being oppressed, being kicked out,
being dragged out, being arrested. It just, you know, it
just seems so dystopian like it really it feels like
Hunger Games. You know, you and I are gen Xers.
We did not grow up rooting for Darth Vader, I mean,
(26:36):
and if ever there was a Thanos moment, how do
people not see that?
Speaker 2 (26:41):
This is it?
Speaker 1 (26:42):
Watching the UN Security councils, watching our government speak, watching
Canadian government speak, watching German government, French Parliament, UK, watching
you know, all the South African and I see the
differences right between Ireland than what you're seeing you know here,
and I think it's a big issue and I want
(27:03):
to bring this up before we end up closing out.
For us, there's an upcoming election. I remember being in
candidate and when Trump was last president. I remember I
would just always get comments from my my Uber drivers
in Toronto They're like, so, so, what's up with your guy?
Speaker 2 (27:19):
Right?
Speaker 1 (27:19):
And I'm just like, like, he's not my guy. And
even now, like you know, like to be honest, Ali,
I don't know, you know, how your guys' political scene
is right now. But I know for us, like we
have an upcoming election and we have two options that
I don't feel if either of them win, we're winning
as a country.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
Great.
Speaker 3 (27:38):
Oh yeah, No, you guys have been set up to fail,
exactly set to fail, you know, and that's also by design, right,
Like I think if you look at the larger global
picture right between between the depegging of you know, the
petro dollar and the bricks nations moving off the US
dollar and the scramble that know.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
Of this failing empire exactly right, And not just America,
I think it's the entire anglosphere, right, Like, you know,
we're seeing fascism kick up here in major ways across
North America. It hasn't hit Australia yet obviously austerity measures
in the UK and more institutional violence happening over there.
(28:22):
But all this to say that, yeah, you know, America,
you guys don't have many options at all. Like, Okay,
Jill Stein and doctor Cornell West are great if they
were both on if they were both on a bill together, right,
maybe that actually has a chance. However, right the you know,
I think George Carlin kind of said it best, right,
like the people that own this country in these countries, right,
(28:43):
they operate in a completely different way like the president
and you know, the prime ministers. That's the illusion of
choice that's given to us, right, right, you know, it
doesn't like as much as as much as our vote
counts on a local level, and you know we can
sway exactly.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
There's a reason we don't have that with the presidential vote.
You're absolutely right, you are absolutely right. Fascism Fascism is
the apps. Like, look, Mussolini was fascist, Stalin was fascist,
Leopold the Second was fascist. And of course we all
know Hitler, right, But it's funny how people always hit
I keep saying this, like people hit on Hitler, But
I'm like, you guys, realize he wasn't the only bad guy.
(29:23):
He's not the standard. He is just an example fascism
coupled with, of course, like corporate greed and you know,
the war machine. But fascism is a group of people
saying we can do whatever we want, whether it's moral,
whether it's right, whether it's wrong, whether it violates you know,
crimes against humanity. We can do whatever we want because
we believe we have the right to do so, we
(29:43):
have a purpose, we have agenda. Nothing will stop us.
And that is fascism. So, you know, George Orwell when
he wrote about nineteen eighty four is a book for
some people. If you haven't read it, you know, go
read it because it just completely talks about fascism in
democracy and how at the end of the day it
is why it's always been the biggest threat to democracy,
(30:04):
because once you're dealing with that mentality, that fascist mentality,
it's what we're seeing now, then people don't matter. Your life,
your humanity, your children, they don't matter. So when you're
watching it, I mean I say this, like, look justin
Trudeau's and I'm not a fan of his. I hope
they don't stop me when I try to come to
Tiff This year, but like, like that you didn't say
(30:26):
nice things about Justin. I'll be like, listen, man, if
he wants to have a conversation with me that far, I.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
Don't say anything nice about Justin at all.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
But you know, it's like, how does it feel for you?
I mean, I know how I feel as an American?
How does it feel for you to like be in what?
And I just have to say this. Everyone's always like,
but connect Canada's the nice people right in to see
the government.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
Like it's a sham, it's a complete it's a complete fraud.
Canada had residential schools up until the nineties. The nineteen
nineties residential schools were these schools or Indigenous Canadian folks
were forcibly put in and stripped of their identity and
you know, they were oftentimes killed in these schools. Like like,
(31:08):
Canada's actual track record is horrific, absolutely horrific. But they
but Canada plays like it's a nice guy. You know,
we're getting slammed on so like the taxation here and
not like and I'm not you know, like oh anti
tax whatever, but like we're getting slammed hard cost of
living here. Everything's going through the roof, They've limited our
(31:32):
access to news through social media. The US dollar and
hyperinflation in the US is going to happen, there's no
way around it. And when that happens, it's Canada. It's
already happened. Yeah, And Canada our economy is directly tied
to America. You're our largest trading partner, over eighty percent
(31:53):
of our trades with America. Right, so they're gonna clamp
down on us so hard here. I'm like, I'm already
working on my exit strategy. Yeah, Like I love Toronto,
but yeah, I think my hunch is that the anglosphere
is going to start feeling a lot like what you know,
(32:15):
quote unquote the third world used to be like in
like you on the seventies and in the eighties.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
These things have ripple effects that are going to impact
our societies. And it's real easy to be super judgmental
and talk about, oh, people can starve and die when
it doesn't impact you. But when it does, I always
warn on that, and I would say, you know, he
who laughs first laughs last. So this cocky arrogance that
the West has had, and especially now because that's the
(32:41):
other thing what this event since ten seven, like I
keep saying the Emperor has no pants, but also like
the greater world, Like if I'm America and I'm showing
the whole world I don't care what they think, well,
then the whole world is not going to care about
me and what I think. So it's going to come
back that energy, that karmic debt again.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
You know.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
So what is your message to people right now? What
would you like to say before we leave our time
with you?
Speaker 2 (33:05):
Yeah, I think I think the number one thing would
be for us to be gentle with ourselves, right Like
I think, you know, with with all the strife and
all the suffering that we're experiencing and that we're witnessing,
and you know, catching all of these injustices and and
and all of these things, there's there's a tendency in
(33:26):
us to want to change that external uh you know, uh,
in order to to really have an impact. But the
but the major impact actually really starts with us turning
inward and doing that work. Like if we are a
point of strength and courage and serenity, uh, you know,
(33:47):
that energy is going to multiply, and that's going to
transfer over and that's what's going to have the real impact,
right if we're operating from a place of uh reaction,
because we're seeing these injustices as opposed to okay, witnessing
the injustice, but coming at it from a place of
justice and you know, and sound resolution. That's a different thing,
(34:11):
and that only comes from us being gentle with ourselves.
So I think that's that's, you know, and I don't
think we're doing that. We're nowhere near nice enough to ourselves. Yeah, right,
And so I think it's like I think just kind
of I.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
Know, I have to say whenever I think about somebody
being aggressive to me, we're right now. I can't lie.
And people think I'm crazy for this, but my initial
instinct is to want to hug them because I think
we're all hurting. Now if you be always hold up
because if I will to hug you, and then you
don't want the huggle to find But it's like that's
my initial response. But hey, I'm going to match anybody's energy, right,
(34:47):
you know, But like just but I say that more
of like the be kind to ourselves and be kind
to each other too, because it's like we're all just
really we are all hurting, some hurting for different reasons,
and I'm not like gonna you know, I'm gonna be
on sugarcoated about that, but still like, how can we
be better? Thank you so much for your time and
energy today. You know, when you're in la we definitely
(35:08):
got to hook up. When I'm in Toronto, we gotta
definitely connect. So, you know, thank you so much for
being with us today. I appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
Oh my pleasure. Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (35:16):
Thank you, thank you, and to everyone at home again.
You know, these conversations are intended to hopefully give you,
inspire you, or give you a reason to go do
more research. If you don't know the information, please go
learn it. If you don't have the friends, if you
don't know Palestinians, go find them. If you don't know
non Zionist Jews, please go find them. I have to
(35:36):
tell you there is solutions to our problems. We just
have to be willing to put forth the effort and
energy to do to find them and make them happen.
So thank you so much, thanks for letting us be unsugarcoated.
We'll see you next time.
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