December 12, 2023 • 38 mins
In the compelling 101st episode of UNSUGARCOATED with Aalia, we get the Lebanese perspective as Lebanese-American award-winning author Dana Dargos takes center stage. She discusses her journey from the Bay Area to literary acclaim with her debut, "Einstein in the Attic." The episode explores Dana's diverse interests, cultural values blending Lebanese heritage with American upbringing, and her impactful storytelling. Listeners are immersed in Lebanon's rich history, the struggles of its people, and Dana's humanitarian work. The conversation delves into Dana's commitment to activism, highlighting her efforts to raise awareness about the Palestinian cause globally. Throughout, Dana's experiences, challenges, and hopes create a heartfelt plea for humanity, urging listeners to stand against racism, genocide, and injustice. Aalia and Dana navigate the complexities of history, culture, and the call to action that defines Dana's inspiring journey as a humanitarian, activist, and impactful author.
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(00:02):
From Ubian Studios. You're listening toUnsugarcoated with Alia bringing you interviews with public
figures and inspirational people speaking on selfimprovement with empowered themes, and I'm your
host, Ali Elaneus. Hello,Hello, Hello, and welcome back to
this incredible journey that we've had onthis season so far thus far. And
(00:23):
you know, first of all,Unsugarcoated with Alia has always said it all
we are unsugarcoded in our approach totake on these conversations to humanize one another.
Our theme for this specially curated seasonhas been from Los Angeles to Gaza,
a plea for humanity and that isthe you know, from my heart,
(00:44):
and each one of these episodes havebeen, as we've said, emotional,
difficult at times to have, butso critically important. And you know,
I am going to say something thatsomebody might have noticed up until this
point if you've been paying attention.As much as we have to amplify the
voices, the one thing I haven'tdone is been able to have the opportunity
to have a Palestinian on the show. But also there's a strategy in that
(01:08):
for myself, it's too easy foryou to accuse me, not you specifically,
but someone out there particularly may accuseme of being biased. It's easier
I can hear the argument in myhead of well, of course they're going
to be on the Palestinian side becausethey're Palestinian. But we challenge that by
(01:30):
bringing people from all over the worldBelgium, UK, United States. You
know, people that had no knowledgeeven before but have become involved or have
through their lifetime had an understanding ofthese situations and so in that there's a
reason for that. That does notmean I don't want to amplify the voices
(01:53):
of Palestinians. I do that throughmy social media, I do that through
the other ways. But right here, what this season was about is letting
you know that there are people aroundthe world that you may identify with that
have cared and do care, andas somebody was pointing out to me just
a moment ago, hopefully that willprompt you to reconsider why you should care.
(02:14):
Why this is a matter that isnot just about being Palestinian, It's
about being a human being. Soyou know, this is part of reclaiming
the narrative for the Palestinian community,is letting everybody know that you know I
mean, you have to just simplybe a person on the side of humanity
(02:35):
to be in this conversation. Now, as this crisis escalates, which it
does. Even at the time ofthis recording, thousands more continue to die
daily. It is you know,it's emotional. It is emotional, and
it's hard, you know, tokeep my emotions in check at time.
I will be honest with you.Even on the way to the studio today,
(02:57):
I had to hold myself back andcrying, and I had to tell
myself be strong for them, Alia, be strong for them. If they're
being strong, you damn sure betterbe strong for them. So, you
know, people from with ties tothe Palestinian community, no doubt, from
Lebanon, Jordan, Syria and Egypt, you know, these are people that
(03:19):
also have an increase in concern andanxiety. You know, people want to
believe that those communities do not care. That's a lie. People want to
say that why haven't they been helpingthem, It's a lie. Somebody today
told me they haven't been taking inrefugees. This is a lie. First
of all, my ex husband wasborn in Egypt as a Palestinian refugee.
(03:39):
My former sister in law and brotherin laws were born in the UAE as
refugees. So to simply believe thelies so that you can sleep better at
night or justify a genocide that istaking place, We're not doing that here.
We're not doing that here. Intwo thousand and six, my ex
(04:01):
husband my sister in law got marriedin Beirut and I only stayed behind because
my son was very colicky and Ididn't want to subject him to this long
trip, or myself. Maybe Iwas being selfish, but my ex husband
went there. There was a beautifulweek of celebrations. Just imagine having the
time of your life and then yougo to the airport and suddenly bombs start
(04:24):
dropping. You have no idea why. You aren't part of a conflict,
You aren't part of Hesbola. Butin July of two thousand and six,
that is what happened. Hesbela kidnappedtwo soldiers at the Israeli border and unleashed
a week of terror and indiscriminate bombingon the people of Lebanon. So we
(04:45):
are part of this conversation, Weare part of this experience. I obtained
the news footage from that station fromKTVU in the Bay area because they were
one of the people that started topay attention when I said, Hey,
by the way, there's American citizensover there. We want to come home.
And I even in watching it andshowing my kids that it's a lot.
(05:08):
It's a lot. So I'm gratefultoday to bring to you an amazing
Lebanese American author. She's going totalk about her stories, she's going to
talk about her experiences, an amazingbook because like her, as a writer,
I've tried to help create that socialimpact through story, storytelling, that
humanization of one another, bridging communities. That's what us, a lot of
(05:31):
us want to do with our stories. And I am honored that she would
come on today and share her storywith us. So let's get to it.
Donna Dargos is a Lebanese American luminarywho ignited her passion for storytelling in
the Bay Area during her kindergarten years. With a degree in English literature from
UC Berkeley, Donna co authored theacclaimed debut novel Einstein in the attic amassing
(05:56):
and impressive nine awards, including theprestigious nat Ali Sickness and Independent Press Honors,
and more, and it is simplya testament to her storytelling prowess.
Beyond her professional life, Donna's diverseinterests range from activism to fashion, showcase
her well rounded and creative spirit thatfuels her work. Join us as we
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delve into the world of Donna Dorgosand her extraordinary journey as an author and
content creator. Ladies and gentlemen,let's give her a hand. Hi Donna,
how are you, Hi, Aliah, thank you so much for having
me today. It's you know,I'm very happy to be here. I
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am honored beyond words, you know, not only because we, you know,
share a love of Lebanon, andwe also grew up in the Bay
Area, so we have a lotof like, you know, familiarities and
similarities. I'm excited for our audienceto learn more about you. So in
that, you know, tell usa little bit about your life, you
know, where you grew up,your family structure, and how that kind
(07:00):
of shaped your early understanding of yourculture as an Arab American but also as
a California girl. Yeah, definitely, while I grew up in the Bay
Area, born and raised, soyou know, I definitely grew up with
a lot of American influence, butnot too much so with my parents,
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they really tried to instill a lotof cultural values into me, which they
did because even for me, youknow, today, I consider myself to
be a bit more Lebanese than Americanin regards to cultural values, mentality,
et cetera. Now, don't getme wrong, there is a bit of
open mindness that I do have.However, I feel like you can equally
(07:43):
attribute that to Lebanese culture, whereit's constantly evolving as well. You know.
So when someone asked me, well, where did you get that open
mindness from? I tell them abit of Americanism and a bit of Lebanese
as well, which a lot ofpeople don't really know about. You know,
a lot of people assume that,okay, well, since Lebanese people
are from Lebanon and the Middle Eightiest, they think, oh, we're super
(08:07):
conservative, that we're all covered up, that we don't believe in freedom and
woman's rights and et cetera. Andthat couldn't be farther from the truth,
you know, to my passionate asa writer, you know, I've loved
writing ever since I was in kindergarten. I always doodle little pictures and crayon
and create some kind of stories withthat. But you know, it's been
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always very important for me to havesome kind of impact on my readers,
to illustrate some kind of message throughmy writing, and help my readers with
that message, you know, inspirethem through that message, give them a
new perspective to think about, getthem to really think about the world and
the issues they see around themselves andtheir own little bubble, and also outside
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of that bubble as well. Ican appreciate that, and it's funny just
historically for anybody who is part ofthis conversation, because I have to have
it. You know, if youlook at pictures of Lebanon in the early
nineteen hundreds, people would be shockedto learn that there were trolley cars.
In fact, San Francisco has sucha similarity of the early nineteen hundreds in
babout the port. You had womenwalking down the street with paras sales,
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you know, because obviously there wasa French influence. Nineteen forty eight was
when they gained independence from France,and in fact, in the seventies,
Lebanon was that Paris of the MiddleEast, right like, you know,
they would everyone would go party inLebanon. American culture that like the like,
many don't even know it's a Christiancountry. They just presume you're in
the Middle East. Must be abunch of Muslims, and that's it.
(09:37):
There's camels. Somebody once asked,what you know, did you have camels
in Lebanon. I was like,no, right, I'm just like,
nope, we got cars just likeyou guys. You know. And plus
they don't even know just how diverseit is, you know, I always
tell them there's multiple religious groups inthere. There's multiple mentalities in there as
well, multiple levels of liberalism andconservatism, so that it's definitely an interesting
(10:01):
melting pot that we have. SoEinstein in the attic, I am,
you know, I want for youand your words because I never like to
summarize. I'm a writer, sowhenever you know, it comes to my
book, I want to summarize it. I want to give it that heart,
tell us what inspired this collaboration,and tell us what the story is
about. So this started back intwenty fifteen. I was visiting Lebanon in
the summer, you know, seeingmy mostly my family there of course,
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and you know, I was friendswith my uncle, my wife's husband,
and every single day we'd have differentconversations about different subjects, you know,
politics, TV, film, books, novels, daily events, et cetera.
So we would just talk about everything. You know, we were really
(10:46):
good friends and we were both biganalytical and critical thinkers as well. So
for this subject. It came upactually when there was a lot of events
going on in twenty fifteen, atleast lot of the time, and you
know, a conversation came up withthe side and he asked me. He's
a like, hey, have youever thought about like the existence of God?
(11:09):
Have you ever been curious about?It's the signs of an intelligent designer.
And you know, I agree withhim. I definitely went through that
phase in high school. So Ifeel like other people when they're surrounded by
so much negative events and so muchnegativity, they definitely most likely have questioned
the existence of God at one pointor another, but have been too worried
(11:31):
to express it, especially in theMiddle Eastern culture where religion is a bit
more conservative, at least in thatarea. Well, of course, it
depends on who you're speaking to.We had a what if scenario, like,
oh, well, you know,what if you could talk to the
most intelligent minds of the universe.How do you think they respond? We
came up with Einstein as an example, and from there it kind of kept
(11:54):
building up. You know, wesaid, what if we added different philosophers
from different backgrounds, So eventually gotto the idea of what if an individual
curious about the world or to summonphilosophers using a time machine, how would
they react, would they get theanswers they wanted, et cetera. And
then of course that catapulted into abigger eight sequence storyline that we worked on
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for quite a while. You know, the book came out in twenty twenty
two of January, so it tookus a couple of years to do all
of that research, to write acrosstwo continents literally through what's happened Microsoft Word
and whatnot. You know, we'rereally thrilled about it. I mean,
it's earned ten awards and counting sofar. So that's definitely something as an
(12:37):
author and you release a book andeveryone's like always like New York Times bestseller
List and like got to make thislist, which we know in the industry
that you can fake that funk,right, you can. You can just
do things to manipulate that. Butwith awards, that's a bit different.
You are really being recognized by yourpeers, and similar to you when you
win those awards, there's a certainvalidation that you feel because you now appreciate
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that your community is recognizing it evenas you're talking about it. Made me
think of there's an app right nowcalled Historia, and so it has Einstein,
and there has like Mozart, youknow, certain of these historical figures
that you can ask a question toand based on the ai give you a
response. And I love this ideaof the time machine and bringing these great
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minds and what they say, andespecially in a moment like now, people
always say what would Jesus say?Well, in this case, I'm going
to say, what do you thinkEinstein would say? Well, I want
to backtrack a bit. First ofall, because a lot of readers have
asked me, you know, well, if you're exploring faith and the existence
of a god in a book,why don't you decide to zapp you know,
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religious figures and from the past andto the present that have a debate
with the main character. And myreason for that is because we cited and
I wanted to explore the existence ofan intelligence designer through a completely neutral lens
of logic and reasoning as opposed toreligious figures, because then even if the
(14:07):
religious figure to argue or present somekind of evidence or something would mostly be
based upon faith, with which alot of people would obviously not be fully
into or would argue that it isn'tcompletely reliable. But anyways, back to
your question, like that that's fair. Yeah, you know, Einstein would
(14:33):
be horrified by today's situation. Andthat's even a bit that's examined a bit
in the book. You know whenthey tried, when they first sat him,
and they try to get him tostay and help them with answering questions
about the world. The main characters, they show him how the world is
right now with war and famine andpoverty in other countries, and you know,
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unfortunately a lot of injustices even inhis real life. I remember when
I was doing research on him towardsthe end of his life, you know,
he was horrified with what people didwith his formula. So I kind
of grabbed that real life moment ornot moment, I guess real life information
and put it into the book aswell, because I feel like that would
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be an important point for how Einsteinwould be horrified what's going on, how
he wants to see if an intelligencedesigner exists, how could that god make
it better? You know, wouldhope be intertwined with it as well,
et cetera. Even in Oppenheimert theyshowcased that, and he did consider human
life and he lived a very simplelife. I was actually just in Switzerland
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earlier this year and I got togo buy the house that he lived in
and walk the streets that he walked, and you know, it was a
bit fascinating because you know, asa history lover like yourself, I imagine
I just I just said, wow, Okay, this is what he was
living, and this is what hesought, just peace and tranquility. So
you've done this book, and youknow, I'm excited for the awards.
(16:04):
I can imagine that it's very irrelevantright now. You've also done you know,
NGO work. You are a humanitarianat heart, which has created approximately
one thousand jobs for Lebanese people.Share with us that journey on how something
like that is accomplished. And youknow, I mean because when we do
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look at this is not just exclusiveto Palestine, but any area of the
world. Where we want to createempowerment for people. This is one way.
So you know, what was thatjourney like for you and how did
you end up doing that? Well, it actually started I think back in
twenty nineteen when the Revolution Lebanon wasgoing on. You know, that was
really dear to my heart, andI saw all of the kinds of injustices
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that were going on, from corruptionto poverty, to famine, to a
lack of medical supplies, to alack of water and electricity, et cuch
a. Basic humanitarian needs were missing. And you know, for me,
I knew I had to do somethingabout it, you know, because in
some situations, people need outside helpbecause the people inside the country that are
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supposed to protect them and that aresupposed to stand for them aren't standing at
all. Secondly, that led toa protest I actually hosted twice in San
Francisco, which which were great aswell. And then from there I just
kept looking up and seeking out otheropportunities to help. So I remember I
came I forgot if I came acrossjobs of Lovenon to be honest, there,
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if someone contacted me about the initiativethey're trying to do where they would
post jobs that they needed help withthat they needed to fulfill online and they
would hire them for those jobs.Because you know, it has a terrible
job economy over there. No onecan really work, no one can really
find work even if they wanted to. So Jobs for Lebanon was a great
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initiative to hire Lebanese people or folkin Lebanon to pay them justly. That
helped them pay or I guess helppay for themselves, their educations, their
families. And I'm naming all ofthis stuff because so many people came from
different backgrounds and different stories. Thatdefinitely helped a lot of people, and
it's still continuing to do so,you know, it's still active even for
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me if I need, you know, the other day or not the other
day. A few weeks ago,I needed someone to help me with some
admin work and some assistant work,and I hired someone off of there because
I figured, if I'm going topay someone, I might as well help
someone with that money where it willbe very highly valued, especially since you
know, things in love and onprices are what two American dollars are lower.
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So, for example, from ourperspective, prices over there are very
cheap, but over there where they'repaid essentially nothing, things are very expensive.
So therefore if you pay them indollars, it'll help them sustain a
lifestyle they can even live. Ilove that. No. I remember we
did a report on even when cryptocurrencystarted to come out because you know,
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I know, Egypt was banning itbecause you know, it was giving again
empowerment to certain individuals. And you'reright, you do have as intelligent and
qualified people ready to do the work, ready for the opportunity. It's just
when you are isolated in certain areasof the world, you know, how
else are people going to find youwhere to get to you? So yeah,
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you know it's so awful too,because I mean, you see so
many talented individuals, so many ambitiousminds, so many empowered individuals as well,
who want to make a difference inthe world, who want to advance
their careers, who want to activelythey illustrate their passion for what they want
to work in, but they justdon't have any opportunities. So it's sad
because you see people struggling to live, for one, and then also people
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just not being able to contribute likethey know they can contribute to the world.
So in your time in Lebanon,I am going to kind of shift.
You know, there is a Thefirst of all, there are a
lot of refugee camps in Lebanon forthe Palestinian community. They've been for decades
and at times, and this issomething that I will acknowledge. Lebanon has
its own history. We've had ourown conflicts, you know, and the
result of taking in so many refugeesafter the original Knakba, you know,
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we're were some of the issues thatled to this, you know, twenty
years civil war. Again, asI mentioned at the beginning, it was
it's a Christian country and there wereissues when there was a fear. You
know, Lebanese people are people,and at times that unjustified fear that somebody's
presence will somehow alter your existence orthreaten your existence does occur. That has
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definitely happened in certain parts of theArab world. I would not be doing
our conversations justice if I did notacknowledge that. And we do have our
stints on history. We have theSubra and Shatila massacres. We have the
way that Palestinian refugee camps are kindof isolated and marginalized. Did you ever
have an opportunity to see that foryourself or even interact with the Palestinian community
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in Lebanon. I did follow intier with a I'm trying to remember the
name, but it was a charityorganization that basically they did help individuals of
different backgrounds and some were Palestinians.Basically they helped generate charity funds for people
who were living in the streets essentially, and their conditions were beyond awful,
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beyond sad. And this was backand I want to say twenty twenty maybe
right, So this was when thingsweren't even as bad as now, but
I remember people would be living inthe alleys behind currents because they just couldn't
afford homes. Some people even haddisabilities, and you know, others didn't
care about them, but that organizationdid care and did try to generate funds
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with them. And the person Iwas with on that day, you know,
she'd run a lot of errands forthem. She used the funds generated
by that charity to purchase medicine forthem, and this meta and it was
important for the conditions that they had, so a lot of their conditions were
terminal if they did not take thatmedicine, so that was a huge deal
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as well. They would also helpraise money to put their children in school,
because without that, their kids wouldn'tbe able to go to school.
I remember I even walked through theold town of Saydo in the market area,
and one of the people who wewere helping live there, and it
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was like ten people living in oneroom, maybe in one of the apartments,
and it was just awful. Youknow. The husband I remember of
one family, he was a Heworked as a baker or out of furnace
or something like that, and youknow, all he could do was just
bake bread people and sell that.But since it was around I think the
(22:52):
currency crisis, he could he justcouldn't generate that much, you know,
So how is he going to feedhis kids, how is he going to
put them in school? How ishe going to guarantee a future for them?
So there are a lot of awfulpoverty stories that I got to witness
in person. Poverty is definitely existenthere and it's very sad when you see
it, but different than families beingsubmerged in poverty because they did they just
(23:19):
couldn't find any jobs. At all. You know, like over here,
you could work in retail if youhad to, you could work in the
food industry, basically some kind ofminimum wage job to at least get you
on your feet. Over there,there is almost no chance of that at
all. Unfortunately, we've seen,you know, we're aware that refugee camps
(23:42):
are themselves getting bombed, which isa tent, tent cities that have nothing
to protect them, nothing to shieldI mean, you know, to be
quite frank, I don't know ifthat's worse. What's worse getting hit and
in a tent or being suffocated andcrushed death in a building. You I'm
(24:03):
sure either one of them are notpleasant experiences, right And to your point,
like I think that you know overthere, there's in places when it
comes to the Palestinian community, they'rejust simply discriminated against because they're Palestinian.
I just wanted to say also,you know that definitely the discrimination it comes
into play. It makes it harderfor people to get jobs, It makes
them they don't have the same rightsas other citizens may have, for example,
(24:26):
So that definitely plays into their challenges, which is unfortunate, but that's
the truth. This is one thing. A lot of people want to argue
that Palestinians just want death to allJews or you know, and I'm being
you know, because this is whatI hear, this is what people will
tell us on social media. Iknow, not the only one right.
They want to see us all dead. Man. They're just trying to put
food on their table. They're justtrying to give their kids the life that
(24:48):
you and I want for our familiesthat we have the exact sport. They're
just trying to survive at this point. Yes, it's not even about trying
to maintain some kind of fancy lifestyle, literally about just trying to survive as
a human being. So now we'rein a moment in time that I think
is quite historic. I don't knowabout you, I mean definitely. My
(25:08):
hope is that this actually comes toa global realization that what has happening to
the Palestinian community has to stop.It's not been fair. It's not a
fair it's not a fair fight,it's not a fair conversation. So in
this moment in time, you are, you know, you're this young,
(25:30):
beautiful, heartfelt author. You're havingall the success, and yet you choose
in this moment to do. WhatI think we're doing is standing on the
right side of history. You're usingyour platform to call out what is clear
in front of us. When Ifirst started posting about things about Palestine,
I knew that a lot of peopleweren't going to like it. You know,
(25:52):
I'm like, this isn't about,you know, liking a hobby that
you don't like. It's not aboutliking some kind of food or TV show
that you don't like. This isabout, you know, agrenacide going on
to be honest, so I wouldn'tI wouldn't take no for an answer,
and I knew I had to postsomething about it. And I mean,
(26:14):
a post can only do so much, but it's definitely something. It's definitely
better than nothing. Especially when youhave a platform, you have a responsibility
to stand up for what is right, because one, how does your obligation
as a human being? And two, in my heart, if I don't
do that, I don't feel likeI deserve a platform. I don't feel
like I would deserve success as anauthor. I feel like if I were
(26:37):
to just ignore the autracity, theatrocity is going on and just live about
my life, I feel like whenI'd be in denial, I would be
delusional. I would be very soullessand careless. And I also don't think
I could even be I could evenbring myself to success or to write anything.
(27:00):
I would feel very awful about wantingto live a normal life and wanting
to be in my own bubble,which I've experienced other people wanting to do
and not wanting to stand up aboutjust something awful happening to other human beings.
You know, it isn't about raceor Palestinian or Lebanese or whatever.
(27:21):
It's literally just caring about thousands,you know, it's literally about just caring
about people dying. That's it.I've gotten so many messages from a lot
of racists, a lot of Islamophobes, et cetera, where they will say
that, you know, oh you'reantisemitic, Oh you're fighting for the wrong
(27:41):
side. Oh, and just reallyawful, awful messages about saying, oh
I hope they all die or somethinglike that. And I'm just like,
what's wrong with you people? You'renot at this point, how can you
even call yourself a person? Towish something like that upon another human being
is insane, you know, Andthe thing is is that even when you
try to educate others about why youbelieve one side or the other or in
(28:07):
the middle, or basically whatever youbelieve in, a lot of people will
deny whatever proof you have, whateverstatement you have to give them. They
will even deny you debunking fake newsas well. You know it wouldn't matter.
I mean, yes, in thiscase, you feel you know,
we fill a kinship with the Palestinians. Also because we are educated. I
(28:29):
mean, in this day and time, it's twenty twenty three, we know
what apartheid looks like, we knowwhat racism is, we know what a
genocide is like. You know,we know what the Holocaust was, and
you know it is it is.It's very difficult when, yeah, you're
trying to educate people and even likeyou said, they'll even deny your own
lived experience. Like and those arethe people that I just stop because I'm
not going to waste my energy.I know you probably a getting exactly you
(28:52):
know, learn that you're not worthI'm not here to convince you. If
you want to have a conversation,if you want to be educated, great,
But if if you're just going tocontinue being part of the problem and
not the solution, right those It'snot at some point we're going to depart,
We're just going to agree to disagree. What do you really feel your
call to action for others really tospread awareness about how the Palestins are being
(29:18):
mistreated and for them to have theright to peace already, because it is
insane how they've been dealing with thisfor seventy five years in accounting and no
one has paid attention until now,which is a small I guess pro you
know, I guess one thing thatbrings a smile on your face is seeing
the thousands of protests going on incities all around the world. That showed
(29:42):
that, you know, the powerof social media definitely has an income where
you can educate, educate people andspread awareness and a lot of people have
changed attitudes about Arabs and Muslims.That is definitely something that's a bit inspirational
and that gives hope as well,and I hope other people will notice that
(30:02):
as well. Yeah, and evenjust the education of whether people understand these
are not, you know, likenot all of Palestinians or Muslims are not
all, you know, the samething we go do that with when you
talk about the Lebanese culture, youknow, I will say, I appreciate
everything that you've said. What doyou feel, you know, for your
personal evolution as you know, activists, author, you know, humanitarian,
(30:30):
what's next for you? Well,let's see, I'm winding down marketing for
Einstein the Attic, and then afterthat, I really hope I can start
some kind of new work. AndI mean, I've already been doing a
lot of humanitarian work, but itstill is enough for me. You know,
I feel like I don't have somethingconcrete in mind, but I definitely
(30:52):
hope to work as a humanitarian,as an activist, and something even bigger,
something that has even more impact thanwhat I currently have now, as
much as I am grateful for it. Yeah, yeah, I mean,
because you know, it's just thebeginning for you. And I don't know
if you if you're like me,but I'm already trying to figure out what
are these other stories I can tell? I've already done one, but like,
(31:14):
what are the other stories that wecan tell that continue to humanize one
another. When I chose to sendup for what was right, I was
aware that I would lose a lotof followers and whatnot, and obviously there
was a lot of racist saying,well, you're losing a follower, don't
follow this person. And I gotad reviews on my book and hate crime
comments on my book on Amazon becauseof people like that. But you know,
(31:38):
you have to have hope in standingup for the right thing that will
be all worth it in the end. That definitely takes faith. Anyways,
I don't want those people to kindof to read my books at all anyways,
you know, for standing up forwhat was right. It kind of
relates because my most I think oneof the first books that really influenced me
was Jane Eyre and that was oneof my all time favorite books because you
(32:01):
see this girl, she goes throughso much oppressive situations and she struggles with
finding happiness and she can never behappy because she's just dealing with so many
unfair situations where all the odds areagainst her. And she can finally attain
happiness if she goes against herself andher own beliefs and not standing up for
(32:22):
what was right in her own opinion, then yeah, go ahead. She
could have attained her goal. ButI think that it took a lot of
strength for that character to be ableto stand up against all of that just
to do the right thing. Youknow, she had to have some sort
of faith that doing the right thingwill pay off in the end, even
though you know she had to throwaway that the initial happen, that initial
(32:47):
attainment of happiness, which is abig thing to do. I mean,
imagine you've been oppressed for all yourlife, You've suffered so much, you
finally just want to be happy,and then when you finally are that happiness
has snatched away from you or youreally have to give it up. I
feel like that's a huge sacrifice.I can appreciate that tremendously. Where can
people follow you, support you?Oh wait, I was gonna say something
(33:09):
really quick on that bad reviews tipthis for anybody who wants to go put
a bad review on anything, justin case you didn't know, that actually
helps us in the algorithm because youknow, technically, and this is true,
this is something I know as apublisher. If you if you get
all good reviews, technically the algorithmthinks you are faking it the funk.
(33:30):
You are maybe paying people or you'relike getting that that's curated. But when
you put a bad comment, Itactually makes your books go higher in the
ranking because they feel that's more authentic. So guess what guys and girls out
there that think you're gonna beat us? You know, there's a saying he
who laughs first laughs last, Soyou know, I just want to remind
(33:51):
you that that actually helps you.They don't. They're not hurting you as
much as they think they are.So you know, but where can people
get your book? Where can theysupport you? Where can they stay connected
and follow your work? Yeah?My book is available on multiple online sites,
mainly Amazon. It is also availablethrough ebook on Google Book, Apple
(34:13):
Book, Barnes and Nobles, andso many other sites. I'm also available
on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook,and TikTok. I want to thank you
so much for your time, yourenergy, your you know, everything that
you're doing. And I wish younothing but the best of luck and fortune
and you know, repayment from theuniverse for all the so much doing so
(34:35):
thank you, sank you so much. You know, it's a huge pleasure
to be here, So thank youso much for the invite. Thank you
so much. Take care and foreveryone at home. You know, I
have a saying that was in mylast novel. It goes like this.
It's my belief that until we learnto care for each other as a species,
as human beings, first wars willbe waged that needn't be, children
(34:59):
will die that shouldn't, and peoplewill suffer that never had to in the
first place. I know that inmy life and work, I want to
change that. I want to dieas a reflection of humanity, compassion,
and empathy. That doesn't mean thatthere are not negative forces that we have
to go against in this world inorder to achieve that, but we have
(35:21):
to start somewhere. And people oftensay they want peace, but what we've
also seen recently is that their actionscontradict that. If you can be a
pro lifer, then you should feeldevastated at what we are seeing. If
you can be a preacher and talkto me about faith and still stand there
(35:43):
and disregard what's happening, then youknow I would put to you the Ten
Commandments tell us not to kill,not to steal, not to covet meaning
wanting something that's not yours. Thoushalt not bear false witness, don't tell
miss and about the facts, andthou shalt not have any other gods but
(36:05):
me, And why do I saythat? Because if you don't think wanting,
power and money are gods, you'reseriously misguided. This is how you
stand with the righteous. This isbasic, ladies and gentlemen. And how
about my favorite. It's not aten commandment, but it is. It
is in that Book of Faith,and I also consider it just a golden
(36:25):
rule of life. Do unto othersis you want done unto yourself. In
America, I come from a culturethat has justified the annihilation of Native Americans
and a history of four hundred yearsof why it was okay to enslave another
person. So it doesn't surprise mewhen America votes to not put a cease
(36:50):
war on what we see right now. This has been an emotional season for
me, for all of us.I'm grateful for the people who have joined
me. I'm grateful that they're notafraid to take a stand and do what's
right. And I ask that everyonein the world. I don't care where
you are this podcast. This showis listened or watched in over seventy countries.
(37:12):
Wherever you are, you can makea difference. Open your heart,
open your eyes, examine history,and then compare it to what we are
experiencing right now, my friend,Because if you really truly want to be
on the right side of history,there's no excuse, there's no excuse.
Check your biases, check your privilege. This should be a moment that liberates
(37:36):
the Palestinian people once and for all, if even from just this idea that
they don't deserve to exist peacefully withintegrity. Remove this from your heart,
from your mind. We want tothank you for being with us. Stay
connected. You know Unsugarcoated Media.We are unsugarcoated with Alia, but this
is produced by our five oh oneC three media production organization. You can
(37:58):
go to wwwun sugar vodedmedia dot comand sign up for our newsletter. Be
aware of other initiatives and other projectsthat we're doing, and you can stay
connected with me directly on Instagram atAlia Underscore Unsugarcoated. But wherever you are
make a difference. Please and thankyou. Thank you for your time,
thank you for your energy, andmore importantly, I'm hoping that I can
(38:21):
thank you for your solidarity, Takecare, and thank you for letting us be unsugarcoated
From Ubian Studios. You're listening toUnsugarcoated with Alia bringing you interviews with public
figures and inspirational people speaking on selfimprovement with empowered themes, and I'm your
host, Ali Elaneus. Hello,Hello, Hello, and welcome back to
this incredible journey that we've had onthis season so far thus far. And
(00:23):
you know, first of all,Unsugarcoated with Alia has always said it all
we are unsugarcoded in our approach totake on these conversations to humanize one another.
Our theme for this specially curated seasonhas been from Los Angeles to Gaza,
a plea for humanity and that isthe you know, from my heart,
(00:44):
and each one of these episodes havebeen, as we've said, emotional,
difficult at times to have, butso critically important. And you know,
I am going to say something thatsomebody might have noticed up until this
point if you've been paying attention.As much as we have to amplify the
voices, the one thing I haven'tdone is been able to have the opportunity
to have a Palestinian on the show. But also there's a strategy in that
(01:08):
for myself, it's too easy foryou to accuse me, not you specifically,
but someone out there particularly may accuseme of being biased. It's easier
I can hear the argument in myhead of well, of course they're going
to be on the Palestinian side becausethey're Palestinian. But we challenge that by
(01:30):
bringing people from all over the worldBelgium, UK, United States. You
know, people that had no knowledgeeven before but have become involved or have
through their lifetime had an understanding ofthese situations and so in that there's a
reason for that. That does notmean I don't want to amplify the voices
(01:53):
of Palestinians. I do that throughmy social media, I do that through
the other ways. But right here, what this season was about is letting
you know that there are people aroundthe world that you may identify with that
have cared and do care, andas somebody was pointing out to me just
a moment ago, hopefully that willprompt you to reconsider why you should care.
(02:14):
Why this is a matter that isnot just about being Palestinian, It's
about being a human being. Soyou know, this is part of reclaiming
the narrative for the Palestinian community,is letting everybody know that you know I
mean, you have to just simplybe a person on the side of humanity
(02:35):
to be in this conversation. Now, as this crisis escalates, which it
does. Even at the time ofthis recording, thousands more continue to die
daily. It is you know,it's emotional. It is emotional, and
it's hard, you know, tokeep my emotions in check at time.
I will be honest with you.Even on the way to the studio today,
(02:57):
I had to hold myself back andcrying, and I had to tell
myself be strong for them, Alia, be strong for them. If they're
being strong, you damn sure betterbe strong for them. So, you
know, people from with ties tothe Palestinian community, no doubt, from
Lebanon, Jordan, Syria and Egypt, you know, these are people that
(03:19):
also have an increase in concern andanxiety. You know, people want to
believe that those communities do not care. That's a lie. People want to
say that why haven't they been helpingthem, It's a lie. Somebody today
told me they haven't been taking inrefugees. This is a lie. First
of all, my ex husband wasborn in Egypt as a Palestinian refugee.
(03:39):
My former sister in law and brotherin laws were born in the UAE as
refugees. So to simply believe thelies so that you can sleep better at
night or justify a genocide that istaking place, We're not doing that here.
We're not doing that here. Intwo thousand and six, my ex
(04:01):
husband my sister in law got marriedin Beirut and I only stayed behind because
my son was very colicky and Ididn't want to subject him to this long
trip, or myself. Maybe Iwas being selfish, but my ex husband
went there. There was a beautifulweek of celebrations. Just imagine having the
time of your life and then yougo to the airport and suddenly bombs start
(04:24):
dropping. You have no idea why. You aren't part of a conflict,
You aren't part of Hesbola. Butin July of two thousand and six,
that is what happened. Hesbela kidnappedtwo soldiers at the Israeli border and unleashed
a week of terror and indiscriminate bombingon the people of Lebanon. So we
(04:45):
are part of this conversation, Weare part of this experience. I obtained
the news footage from that station fromKTVU in the Bay area because they were
one of the people that started topay attention when I said, Hey,
by the way, there's American citizensover there. We want to come home.
And I even in watching it andshowing my kids that it's a lot.
(05:08):
It's a lot. So I'm gratefultoday to bring to you an amazing
Lebanese American author. She's going totalk about her stories, she's going to
talk about her experiences, an amazingbook because like her, as a writer,
I've tried to help create that socialimpact through story, storytelling, that
humanization of one another, bridging communities. That's what us, a lot of
(05:31):
us want to do with our stories. And I am honored that she would
come on today and share her storywith us. So let's get to it.
Donna Dargos is a Lebanese American luminarywho ignited her passion for storytelling in
the Bay Area during her kindergarten years. With a degree in English literature from
UC Berkeley, Donna co authored theacclaimed debut novel Einstein in the attic amassing
(05:56):
and impressive nine awards, including theprestigious nat Ali Sickness and Independent Press Honors,
and more, and it is simplya testament to her storytelling prowess.
Beyond her professional life, Donna's diverseinterests range from activism to fashion, showcase
her well rounded and creative spirit thatfuels her work. Join us as we
(06:17):
delve into the world of Donna Dorgosand her extraordinary journey as an author and
content creator. Ladies and gentlemen,let's give her a hand. Hi Donna,
how are you, Hi, Aliah, thank you so much for having
me today. It's you know,I'm very happy to be here. I
(06:40):
am honored beyond words, you know, not only because we, you know,
share a love of Lebanon, andwe also grew up in the Bay
Area, so we have a lotof like, you know, familiarities and
similarities. I'm excited for our audienceto learn more about you. So in
that, you know, tell usa little bit about your life, you
know, where you grew up,your family structure, and how that kind
(07:00):
of shaped your early understanding of yourculture as an Arab American but also as
a California girl. Yeah, definitely, while I grew up in the Bay
Area, born and raised, soyou know, I definitely grew up with
a lot of American influence, butnot too much so with my parents,
(07:23):
they really tried to instill a lotof cultural values into me, which they
did because even for me, youknow, today, I consider myself to
be a bit more Lebanese than Americanin regards to cultural values, mentality,
et cetera. Now, don't getme wrong, there is a bit of
open mindness that I do have.However, I feel like you can equally
(07:43):
attribute that to Lebanese culture, whereit's constantly evolving as well. You know.
So when someone asked me, well, where did you get that open
mindness from? I tell them abit of Americanism and a bit of Lebanese
as well, which a lot ofpeople don't really know about. You know,
a lot of people assume that,okay, well, since Lebanese people
are from Lebanon and the Middle Eightiest, they think, oh, we're super
(08:07):
conservative, that we're all covered up, that we don't believe in freedom and
woman's rights and et cetera. Andthat couldn't be farther from the truth,
you know, to my passionate asa writer, you know, I've loved
writing ever since I was in kindergarten. I always doodle little pictures and crayon
and create some kind of stories withthat. But you know, it's been
(08:28):
always very important for me to havesome kind of impact on my readers,
to illustrate some kind of message throughmy writing, and help my readers with
that message, you know, inspirethem through that message, give them a
new perspective to think about, getthem to really think about the world and
the issues they see around themselves andtheir own little bubble, and also outside
(08:50):
of that bubble as well. Ican appreciate that, and it's funny just
historically for anybody who is part ofthis conversation, because I have to have
it. You know, if youlook at pictures of Lebanon in the early
nineteen hundreds, people would be shockedto learn that there were trolley cars.
In fact, San Francisco has sucha similarity of the early nineteen hundreds in
babout the port. You had womenwalking down the street with paras sales,
(09:13):
you know, because obviously there wasa French influence. Nineteen forty eight was
when they gained independence from France,and in fact, in the seventies,
Lebanon was that Paris of the MiddleEast, right like, you know,
they would everyone would go party inLebanon. American culture that like the like,
many don't even know it's a Christiancountry. They just presume you're in
the Middle East. Must be abunch of Muslims, and that's it.
(09:37):
There's camels. Somebody once asked,what you know, did you have camels
in Lebanon. I was like,no, right, I'm just like,
nope, we got cars just likeyou guys. You know. And plus
they don't even know just how diverseit is, you know, I always
tell them there's multiple religious groups inthere. There's multiple mentalities in there as
well, multiple levels of liberalism andconservatism, so that it's definitely an interesting
(10:01):
melting pot that we have. SoEinstein in the attic, I am,
you know, I want for youand your words because I never like to
summarize. I'm a writer, sowhenever you know, it comes to my
book, I want to summarize it. I want to give it that heart,
tell us what inspired this collaboration,and tell us what the story is
about. So this started back intwenty fifteen. I was visiting Lebanon in
the summer, you know, seeingmy mostly my family there of course,
(10:26):
and you know, I was friendswith my uncle, my wife's husband,
and every single day we'd have differentconversations about different subjects, you know,
politics, TV, film, books, novels, daily events, et cetera.
So we would just talk about everything. You know, we were really
(10:46):
good friends and we were both biganalytical and critical thinkers as well. So
for this subject. It came upactually when there was a lot of events
going on in twenty fifteen, atleast lot of the time, and you
know, a conversation came up withthe side and he asked me. He's
a like, hey, have youever thought about like the existence of God?
(11:09):
Have you ever been curious about?It's the signs of an intelligent designer.
And you know, I agree withhim. I definitely went through that
phase in high school. So Ifeel like other people when they're surrounded by
so much negative events and so muchnegativity, they definitely most likely have questioned
the existence of God at one pointor another, but have been too worried
(11:31):
to express it, especially in theMiddle Eastern culture where religion is a bit
more conservative, at least in thatarea. Well, of course, it
depends on who you're speaking to.We had a what if scenario, like,
oh, well, you know,what if you could talk to the
most intelligent minds of the universe.How do you think they respond? We
came up with Einstein as an example, and from there it kind of kept
(11:54):
building up. You know, wesaid, what if we added different philosophers
from different backgrounds, So eventually gotto the idea of what if an individual
curious about the world or to summonphilosophers using a time machine, how would
they react, would they get theanswers they wanted, et cetera. And
then of course that catapulted into abigger eight sequence storyline that we worked on
(12:16):
for quite a while. You know, the book came out in twenty twenty
two of January, so it tookus a couple of years to do all
of that research, to write acrosstwo continents literally through what's happened Microsoft Word
and whatnot. You know, we'rereally thrilled about it. I mean,
it's earned ten awards and counting sofar. So that's definitely something as an
(12:37):
author and you release a book andeveryone's like always like New York Times bestseller
List and like got to make thislist, which we know in the industry
that you can fake that funk,right, you can. You can just
do things to manipulate that. Butwith awards, that's a bit different.
You are really being recognized by yourpeers, and similar to you when you
win those awards, there's a certainvalidation that you feel because you now appreciate
(13:01):
that your community is recognizing it evenas you're talking about it. Made me
think of there's an app right nowcalled Historia, and so it has Einstein,
and there has like Mozart, youknow, certain of these historical figures
that you can ask a question toand based on the ai give you a
response. And I love this ideaof the time machine and bringing these great
(13:24):
minds and what they say, andespecially in a moment like now, people
always say what would Jesus say?Well, in this case, I'm going
to say, what do you thinkEinstein would say? Well, I want
to backtrack a bit. First ofall, because a lot of readers have
asked me, you know, well, if you're exploring faith and the existence
of a god in a book,why don't you decide to zapp you know,
(13:46):
religious figures and from the past andto the present that have a debate
with the main character. And myreason for that is because we cited and
I wanted to explore the existence ofan intelligence designer through a completely neutral lens
of logic and reasoning as opposed toreligious figures, because then even if the
(14:07):
religious figure to argue or present somekind of evidence or something would mostly be
based upon faith, with which alot of people would obviously not be fully
into or would argue that it isn'tcompletely reliable. But anyways, back to
your question, like that that's fair. Yeah, you know, Einstein would
(14:33):
be horrified by today's situation. Andthat's even a bit that's examined a bit
in the book. You know whenthey tried, when they first sat him,
and they try to get him tostay and help them with answering questions
about the world. The main characters, they show him how the world is
right now with war and famine andpoverty in other countries, and you know,
(14:58):
unfortunately a lot of injustices even inhis real life. I remember when
I was doing research on him towardsthe end of his life, you know,
he was horrified with what people didwith his formula. So I kind
of grabbed that real life moment ornot moment, I guess real life information
and put it into the book aswell, because I feel like that would
(15:20):
be an important point for how Einsteinwould be horrified what's going on, how
he wants to see if an intelligencedesigner exists, how could that god make
it better? You know, wouldhope be intertwined with it as well,
et cetera. Even in Oppenheimert theyshowcased that, and he did consider human
life and he lived a very simplelife. I was actually just in Switzerland
(15:43):
earlier this year and I got togo buy the house that he lived in
and walk the streets that he walked, and you know, it was a
bit fascinating because you know, asa history lover like yourself, I imagine
I just I just said, wow, Okay, this is what he was
living, and this is what hesought, just peace and tranquility. So
you've done this book, and youknow, I'm excited for the awards.
(16:04):
I can imagine that it's very irrelevantright now. You've also done you know,
NGO work. You are a humanitarianat heart, which has created approximately
one thousand jobs for Lebanese people.Share with us that journey on how something
like that is accomplished. And youknow, I mean because when we do
(16:26):
look at this is not just exclusiveto Palestine, but any area of the
world. Where we want to createempowerment for people. This is one way.
So you know, what was thatjourney like for you and how did
you end up doing that? Well, it actually started I think back in
twenty nineteen when the Revolution Lebanon wasgoing on. You know, that was
really dear to my heart, andI saw all of the kinds of injustices
(16:49):
that were going on, from corruptionto poverty, to famine, to a
lack of medical supplies, to alack of water and electricity, et cuch
a. Basic humanitarian needs were missing. And you know, for me,
I knew I had to do somethingabout it, you know, because in
some situations, people need outside helpbecause the people inside the country that are
(17:10):
supposed to protect them and that aresupposed to stand for them aren't standing at
all. Secondly, that led toa protest I actually hosted twice in San
Francisco, which which were great aswell. And then from there I just
kept looking up and seeking out otheropportunities to help. So I remember I
came I forgot if I came acrossjobs of Lovenon to be honest, there,
(17:32):
if someone contacted me about the initiativethey're trying to do where they would
post jobs that they needed help withthat they needed to fulfill online and they
would hire them for those jobs.Because you know, it has a terrible
job economy over there. No onecan really work, no one can really
find work even if they wanted to. So Jobs for Lebanon was a great
(17:52):
initiative to hire Lebanese people or folkin Lebanon to pay them justly. That
helped them pay or I guess helppay for themselves, their educations, their
families. And I'm naming all ofthis stuff because so many people came from
different backgrounds and different stories. Thatdefinitely helped a lot of people, and
it's still continuing to do so,you know, it's still active even for
(18:15):
me if I need, you know, the other day or not the other
day. A few weeks ago,I needed someone to help me with some
admin work and some assistant work,and I hired someone off of there because
I figured, if I'm going topay someone, I might as well help
someone with that money where it willbe very highly valued, especially since you
know, things in love and onprices are what two American dollars are lower.
(18:38):
So, for example, from ourperspective, prices over there are very
cheap, but over there where they'repaid essentially nothing, things are very expensive.
So therefore if you pay them indollars, it'll help them sustain a
lifestyle they can even live. Ilove that. No. I remember we
did a report on even when cryptocurrencystarted to come out because you know,
(19:00):
I know, Egypt was banning itbecause you know, it was giving again
empowerment to certain individuals. And you'reright, you do have as intelligent and
qualified people ready to do the work, ready for the opportunity. It's just
when you are isolated in certain areasof the world, you know, how
else are people going to find youwhere to get to you? So yeah,
(19:21):
you know it's so awful too,because I mean, you see so
many talented individuals, so many ambitiousminds, so many empowered individuals as well,
who want to make a difference inthe world, who want to advance
their careers, who want to activelythey illustrate their passion for what they want
to work in, but they justdon't have any opportunities. So it's sad
because you see people struggling to live, for one, and then also people
(19:47):
just not being able to contribute likethey know they can contribute to the world.
So in your time in Lebanon,I am going to kind of shift.
You know, there is a Thefirst of all, there are a
lot of refugee camps in Lebanon forthe Palestinian community. They've been for decades
and at times, and this issomething that I will acknowledge. Lebanon has
its own history. We've had ourown conflicts, you know, and the
result of taking in so many refugeesafter the original Knakba, you know,
(20:12):
we're were some of the issues thatled to this, you know, twenty
years civil war. Again, asI mentioned at the beginning, it was
it's a Christian country and there wereissues when there was a fear. You
know, Lebanese people are people,and at times that unjustified fear that somebody's
presence will somehow alter your existence orthreaten your existence does occur. That has
(20:33):
definitely happened in certain parts of theArab world. I would not be doing
our conversations justice if I did notacknowledge that. And we do have our
stints on history. We have theSubra and Shatila massacres. We have the
way that Palestinian refugee camps are kindof isolated and marginalized. Did you ever
have an opportunity to see that foryourself or even interact with the Palestinian community
(20:57):
in Lebanon. I did follow intier with a I'm trying to remember the
name, but it was a charityorganization that basically they did help individuals of
different backgrounds and some were Palestinians.Basically they helped generate charity funds for people
who were living in the streets essentially, and their conditions were beyond awful,
(21:22):
beyond sad. And this was backand I want to say twenty twenty maybe
right, So this was when thingsweren't even as bad as now, but
I remember people would be living inthe alleys behind currents because they just couldn't
afford homes. Some people even haddisabilities, and you know, others didn't
care about them, but that organizationdid care and did try to generate funds
(21:47):
with them. And the person Iwas with on that day, you know,
she'd run a lot of errands forthem. She used the funds generated
by that charity to purchase medicine forthem, and this meta and it was
important for the conditions that they had, so a lot of their conditions were
terminal if they did not take thatmedicine, so that was a huge deal
(22:08):
as well. They would also helpraise money to put their children in school,
because without that, their kids wouldn'tbe able to go to school.
I remember I even walked through theold town of Saydo in the market area,
and one of the people who wewere helping live there, and it
(22:29):
was like ten people living in oneroom, maybe in one of the apartments,
and it was just awful. Youknow. The husband I remember of
one family, he was a Heworked as a baker or out of furnace
or something like that, and youknow, all he could do was just
bake bread people and sell that.But since it was around I think the
(22:52):
currency crisis, he could he justcouldn't generate that much, you know,
So how is he going to feedhis kids, how is he going to
put them in school? How ishe going to guarantee a future for them?
So there are a lot of awfulpoverty stories that I got to witness
in person. Poverty is definitely existenthere and it's very sad when you see
it, but different than families beingsubmerged in poverty because they did they just
(23:19):
couldn't find any jobs. At all. You know, like over here,
you could work in retail if youhad to, you could work in the
food industry, basically some kind ofminimum wage job to at least get you
on your feet. Over there,there is almost no chance of that at
all. Unfortunately, we've seen,you know, we're aware that refugee camps
(23:42):
are themselves getting bombed, which isa tent, tent cities that have nothing
to protect them, nothing to shieldI mean, you know, to be
quite frank, I don't know ifthat's worse. What's worse getting hit and
in a tent or being suffocated andcrushed death in a building. You I'm
(24:03):
sure either one of them are notpleasant experiences, right And to your point,
like I think that you know overthere, there's in places when it
comes to the Palestinian community, they'rejust simply discriminated against because they're Palestinian.
I just wanted to say also,you know that definitely the discrimination it comes
into play. It makes it harderfor people to get jobs, It makes
them they don't have the same rightsas other citizens may have, for example,
(24:26):
So that definitely plays into their challenges, which is unfortunate, but that's
the truth. This is one thing. A lot of people want to argue
that Palestinians just want death to allJews or you know, and I'm being
you know, because this is whatI hear, this is what people will
tell us on social media. Iknow, not the only one right.
They want to see us all dead. Man. They're just trying to put
food on their table. They're justtrying to give their kids the life that
(24:48):
you and I want for our familiesthat we have the exact sport. They're
just trying to survive at this point. Yes, it's not even about trying
to maintain some kind of fancy lifestyle, literally about just trying to survive as
a human being. So now we'rein a moment in time that I think
is quite historic. I don't knowabout you, I mean definitely. My
(25:08):
hope is that this actually comes toa global realization that what has happening to
the Palestinian community has to stop.It's not been fair. It's not a
fair it's not a fair fight,it's not a fair conversation. So in
this moment in time, you are, you know, you're this young,
(25:30):
beautiful, heartfelt author. You're havingall the success, and yet you choose
in this moment to do. WhatI think we're doing is standing on the
right side of history. You're usingyour platform to call out what is clear
in front of us. When Ifirst started posting about things about Palestine,
I knew that a lot of peopleweren't going to like it. You know,
(25:52):
I'm like, this isn't about,you know, liking a hobby that
you don't like. It's not aboutliking some kind of food or TV show
that you don't like. This isabout, you know, agrenacide going on
to be honest, so I wouldn'tI wouldn't take no for an answer,
and I knew I had to postsomething about it. And I mean,
(26:14):
a post can only do so much, but it's definitely something. It's definitely
better than nothing. Especially when youhave a platform, you have a responsibility
to stand up for what is right, because one, how does your obligation
as a human being? And two, in my heart, if I don't
do that, I don't feel likeI deserve a platform. I don't feel
like I would deserve success as anauthor. I feel like if I were
(26:37):
to just ignore the autracity, theatrocity is going on and just live about
my life, I feel like whenI'd be in denial, I would be
delusional. I would be very soullessand careless. And I also don't think
I could even be I could evenbring myself to success or to write anything.
(27:00):
I would feel very awful about wantingto live a normal life and wanting
to be in my own bubble,which I've experienced other people wanting to do
and not wanting to stand up aboutjust something awful happening to other human beings.
You know, it isn't about raceor Palestinian or Lebanese or whatever.
(27:21):
It's literally just caring about thousands,you know, it's literally about just caring
about people dying. That's it.I've gotten so many messages from a lot
of racists, a lot of Islamophobes, et cetera, where they will say
that, you know, oh you'reantisemitic, Oh you're fighting for the wrong
(27:41):
side. Oh, and just reallyawful, awful messages about saying, oh
I hope they all die or somethinglike that. And I'm just like,
what's wrong with you people? You'renot at this point, how can you
even call yourself a person? Towish something like that upon another human being
is insane, you know, Andthe thing is is that even when you
try to educate others about why youbelieve one side or the other or in
(28:07):
the middle, or basically whatever youbelieve in, a lot of people will
deny whatever proof you have, whateverstatement you have to give them. They
will even deny you debunking fake newsas well. You know it wouldn't matter.
I mean, yes, in thiscase, you feel you know,
we fill a kinship with the Palestinians. Also because we are educated. I
(28:29):
mean, in this day and time, it's twenty twenty three, we know
what apartheid looks like, we knowwhat racism is, we know what a
genocide is like. You know,we know what the Holocaust was, and
you know it is it is.It's very difficult when, yeah, you're
trying to educate people and even likeyou said, they'll even deny your own
lived experience. Like and those arethe people that I just stop because I'm
not going to waste my energy.I know you probably a getting exactly you
(28:52):
know, learn that you're not worthI'm not here to convince you. If
you want to have a conversation,if you want to be educated, great,
But if if you're just going tocontinue being part of the problem and
not the solution, right those It'snot at some point we're going to depart,
We're just going to agree to disagree. What do you really feel your
call to action for others really tospread awareness about how the Palestins are being
(29:18):
mistreated and for them to have theright to peace already, because it is
insane how they've been dealing with thisfor seventy five years in accounting and no
one has paid attention until now,which is a small I guess pro you
know, I guess one thing thatbrings a smile on your face is seeing
the thousands of protests going on incities all around the world. That showed
(29:42):
that, you know, the powerof social media definitely has an income where
you can educate, educate people andspread awareness and a lot of people have
changed attitudes about Arabs and Muslims.That is definitely something that's a bit inspirational
and that gives hope as well,and I hope other people will notice that
(30:02):
as well. Yeah, and evenjust the education of whether people understand these
are not, you know, likenot all of Palestinians or Muslims are not
all, you know, the samething we go do that with when you
talk about the Lebanese culture, youknow, I will say, I appreciate
everything that you've said. What doyou feel, you know, for your
personal evolution as you know, activists, author, you know, humanitarian,
(30:30):
what's next for you? Well,let's see, I'm winding down marketing for
Einstein the Attic, and then afterthat, I really hope I can start
some kind of new work. AndI mean, I've already been doing a
lot of humanitarian work, but itstill is enough for me. You know,
I feel like I don't have somethingconcrete in mind, but I definitely
(30:52):
hope to work as a humanitarian,as an activist, and something even bigger,
something that has even more impact thanwhat I currently have now, as
much as I am grateful for it. Yeah, yeah, I mean,
because you know, it's just thebeginning for you. And I don't know
if you if you're like me,but I'm already trying to figure out what
are these other stories I can tell? I've already done one, but like,
(31:14):
what are the other stories that wecan tell that continue to humanize one
another. When I chose to sendup for what was right, I was
aware that I would lose a lotof followers and whatnot, and obviously there
was a lot of racist saying,well, you're losing a follower, don't
follow this person. And I gotad reviews on my book and hate crime
comments on my book on Amazon becauseof people like that. But you know,
(31:38):
you have to have hope in standingup for the right thing that will
be all worth it in the end. That definitely takes faith. Anyways,
I don't want those people to kindof to read my books at all anyways,
you know, for standing up forwhat was right. It kind of
relates because my most I think oneof the first books that really influenced me
was Jane Eyre and that was oneof my all time favorite books because you
(32:01):
see this girl, she goes throughso much oppressive situations and she struggles with
finding happiness and she can never behappy because she's just dealing with so many
unfair situations where all the odds areagainst her. And she can finally attain
happiness if she goes against herself andher own beliefs and not standing up for
(32:22):
what was right in her own opinion, then yeah, go ahead. She
could have attained her goal. ButI think that it took a lot of
strength for that character to be ableto stand up against all of that just
to do the right thing. Youknow, she had to have some sort
of faith that doing the right thingwill pay off in the end, even
though you know she had to throwaway that the initial happen, that initial
(32:47):
attainment of happiness, which is abig thing to do. I mean,
imagine you've been oppressed for all yourlife, You've suffered so much, you
finally just want to be happy,and then when you finally are that happiness
has snatched away from you or youreally have to give it up. I
feel like that's a huge sacrifice.I can appreciate that tremendously. Where can
people follow you, support you?Oh wait, I was gonna say something
(33:09):
really quick on that bad reviews tipthis for anybody who wants to go put
a bad review on anything, justin case you didn't know, that actually
helps us in the algorithm because youknow, technically, and this is true,
this is something I know as apublisher. If you if you get
all good reviews, technically the algorithmthinks you are faking it the funk.
(33:30):
You are maybe paying people or you'relike getting that that's curated. But when
you put a bad comment, Itactually makes your books go higher in the
ranking because they feel that's more authentic. So guess what guys and girls out
there that think you're gonna beat us? You know, there's a saying he
who laughs first laughs last, Soyou know, I just want to remind
(33:51):
you that that actually helps you.They don't. They're not hurting you as
much as they think they are.So you know, but where can people
get your book? Where can theysupport you? Where can they stay connected
and follow your work? Yeah?My book is available on multiple online sites,
mainly Amazon. It is also availablethrough ebook on Google Book, Apple
(34:13):
Book, Barnes and Nobles, andso many other sites. I'm also available
on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook,and TikTok. I want to thank you
so much for your time, yourenergy, your you know, everything that
you're doing. And I wish younothing but the best of luck and fortune
and you know, repayment from theuniverse for all the so much doing so
(34:35):
thank you, sank you so much. You know, it's a huge pleasure
to be here, So thank youso much for the invite. Thank you
so much. Take care and foreveryone at home. You know, I
have a saying that was in mylast novel. It goes like this.
It's my belief that until we learnto care for each other as a species,
as human beings, first wars willbe waged that needn't be, children
(34:59):
will die that shouldn't, and peoplewill suffer that never had to in the
first place. I know that inmy life and work, I want to
change that. I want to dieas a reflection of humanity, compassion,
and empathy. That doesn't mean thatthere are not negative forces that we have
to go against in this world inorder to achieve that, but we have
(35:21):
to start somewhere. And people oftensay they want peace, but what we've
also seen recently is that their actionscontradict that. If you can be a
pro lifer, then you should feeldevastated at what we are seeing. If
you can be a preacher and talkto me about faith and still stand there
(35:43):
and disregard what's happening, then youknow I would put to you the Ten
Commandments tell us not to kill,not to steal, not to covet meaning
wanting something that's not yours. Thoushalt not bear false witness, don't tell
miss and about the facts, andthou shalt not have any other gods but
(36:05):
me, And why do I saythat? Because if you don't think wanting,
power and money are gods, you'reseriously misguided. This is how you
stand with the righteous. This isbasic, ladies and gentlemen. And how
about my favorite. It's not aten commandment, but it is. It
is in that Book of Faith,and I also consider it just a golden
(36:25):
rule of life. Do unto othersis you want done unto yourself. In
America, I come from a culturethat has justified the annihilation of Native Americans
and a history of four hundred yearsof why it was okay to enslave another
person. So it doesn't surprise mewhen America votes to not put a cease
(36:50):
war on what we see right now. This has been an emotional season for
me, for all of us.I'm grateful for the people who have joined
me. I'm grateful that they're notafraid to take a stand and do what's
right. And I ask that everyonein the world. I don't care where
you are this podcast. This showis listened or watched in over seventy countries.
(37:12):
Wherever you are, you can makea difference. Open your heart,
open your eyes, examine history,and then compare it to what we are
experiencing right now, my friend,Because if you really truly want to be
on the right side of history,there's no excuse, there's no excuse.
Check your biases, check your privilege. This should be a moment that liberates
(37:36):
the Palestinian people once and for all, if even from just this idea that
they don't deserve to exist peacefully withintegrity. Remove this from your heart,
from your mind. We want tothank you for being with us. Stay
connected. You know Unsugarcoated Media.We are unsugarcoated with Alia, but this
is produced by our five oh oneC three media production organization. You can
(37:58):
go to wwwun sugar vodedmedia dot comand sign up for our newsletter. Be
aware of other initiatives and other projectsthat we're doing, and you can stay
connected with me directly on Instagram atAlia Underscore Unsugarcoated. But wherever you are
make a difference. Please and thankyou. Thank you for your time,
thank you for your energy, andmore importantly, I'm hoping that I can
(38:21):
thank you for your solidarity, Takecare, and thank you for letting us be unsugarcoated
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