November 16, 2023 • 44 mins
In this limited series, and the 98th podcast episode of the show, our host, Aalia is joined by Jewish-born, New York-based, Canadian Jess Salomon, to share her remarkable journey from U.N. war crimes lawyer to the spotlight of the comedy stage with her wife, a Palestinian Muslim.
In this interview, they explore Salomon’s early experiences with Jewish traditions, her foray into the world of comedy, and the unique perspective she brings to the stage. Beyond the laughter, they talk about weighty topics, including her experiences with family and her understanding of Israel as a safe haven, the complexities surrounding Zionism, and the narratives surrounding Palestinians.
In this interview, they explore Salomon’s early experiences with Jewish traditions, her foray into the world of comedy, and the unique perspective she brings to the stage. Beyond the laughter, they talk about weighty topics, including her experiences with family and her understanding of Israel as a safe haven, the complexities surrounding Zionism, and the narratives surrounding Palestinians.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:03):
From Ubin Studios. You're listening toUnsugarcoated with Alia bringing you interviews with public
figures and inspirational people speaking on selfimprovement with empowered themes, and I'm your
host, Ali Olaneus. Hello,Hello to the world. I hope you
are well. I hope this episodefinds you safe, happy, but also
(00:27):
present. As you know, thisis a very special season for us,
for me personally as an impact producer. Some of the conversations we've had up
to this point have just been soincredible, and again, I'm incredibly grateful
for the people who are joining mein this initiative to humanize one another and
really speak through our theme from LosAngeles to Gaza, a plea for humanity,
(00:52):
Like I'm actually going to do somethinga little bit different sometimes I do
these things, you guys, know, those of you who have been with
me for a long time. I'mgoing to read a poem because it's really
gonna start off this conversation in away that I need to, and it's
gonna encapsulate what I kind of hopeis the overall message of this episode,
and particularly the conversation with my guestMaya Angelou wrote a book called I Know
(01:17):
Why the Caged Bird Sings, Andfor me that book was transformational in my
life. When I saw the title, I actually knew exactly what it meant.
It resonated so profoundly with me whenI think today of the Palestinian plight,
No words sum it up for mebetter than that itself. But I'd
like to read you the poem thatMaya Angelou wrote, and it is titled
(01:41):
Caged Bird. A free bird leapson the back of the wind and floats
downstream till the current ends, anddips his wing in the orange sun rays
and dares to claim the sky.But a bird that stalks down his narrow
cage can seldom see through his barsof rage. His wings are clipped and
(02:05):
his feet are tied, so heopens his throat to sing. The caged
bird sings with a fearful trill ofthings unknown but longed for still, and
his tune is heard on the distanthill. For the caged bird sings of
freedom. The free bird thinks ofanother breeze and the trade wind's soft through
(02:25):
the sighing trees, and the fatworms waiting on a dawn bright lawn,
and he names the sky his own, But a caged bird stands on the
grave of dreams. His shadow shoutson a nightmare scream. His wings are
clipped and his feet are tied,so he opens his throat to sing.
(02:45):
The caged bird sings with a fearfultrill of things unknown but longed for.
Still, and his tune is heardon the distant hill. For the caged
bird sings of freedom. We mustfind a way to understand the issue here
that goes beyond what we think andwhat we know. And I'm always honored
(03:07):
to share conversations with somebody who canoffer a perspective even outside of my own.
I want to take the time tounderstand the depth and give opportunity to
others to reclaim a narrative that isboth for the Jewish and the Palestinian people.
In this moment, please give honorto the people that are coming on
(03:27):
and sharing this heart with me,this heart for humanity. Jess Solomon is
a Jewish born and raised New Yorkbased Canadian comedian and has hit many places,
including The Tonight Show with Jimmy Fallon. Jess fearlessly tackles dark, political,
and sometimes even dirty topics with alighthearted touch. And her comedic talents
(03:47):
have taken her to prestigious festivals likeJust for Laughs and the New York Comedy
Festival, where she recorded her debutalbum All the Best Choices. But Jess
is more than just a comedian.She's also a gift did writer, having
contributed to ACCLAIM shows like baroness OnSketch and The Beaverton And if that's not
impressive enough. Before her comedy career, just was a un war crimes lawyer.
(04:10):
A remarkable journey that we cannot waitto explore. Ladies and gentlemen,
Jess Salmon, we're in the clubright now, right right, everyone,
Please take your seats, thanks toomuch. You moved in twenty sixteen from
the US to New York. That'swhere the title All the Best Choices came
(04:34):
from at the time, because Iwould you know, I'd moved from Canada
with my Muslim wife right before Trumpgot elected. Yes, yes, audience,
you heard that correctly. You heardshe moved to the US from Canada
with her Muslim and additionally Palestinian wife, right Palestinian. Yes, I mean
tell me about that experience, youknow, whether it was from your Jewish
(04:57):
community or the community like what wasthat experience like for you? My wife
and I we met when our whenour families introduced us. That's that's that's
my favorite cocktail joke. It's itdoesn't work as well here. But when
people are how did you guys meet? Our parents introduced us, They're like,
no, no, that's not whathappened. We met doing comedy in
Montreal. And you know, mymy wife, her name is eman Al
(05:21):
Lusceni. She was straight up untilme. Thank you, So I converted
you at this right now? Imean, yeah, like full disclosure to
the audience, And I mean,I really have to say this. I've
I've had friends who we've made jokeson their deathbed and that's not a joke.
That's like literally, I feel thathumor is something we need. And
(05:41):
honestly, with a lot of theseheavy conversations, if you hear me laugh,
it's because you know it, Godbless us for just laughing taking the
moment. Please, yes, pleaseplease. So, I mean our marriage
is definitely a source of laughter andcomedy for sure, And yeah, I
think it. You know, forus, she was she was a straight
like her tire act her life.She was this straight single gal, you
(06:05):
know, talk. She talked aboutbeing I think at the time you talked
about being Palestinian and Arab for sure, but it was a lot of you
know, men women jokes, theclassic This was years ago, you know,
in the comedy club. There wasa lot of topics weren't really acceptable.
So I ended up it caught meby surprise our relationship happening. Emon
(06:30):
was at the time bringing Muslim andJewish comics together on the comedy scene to
do a show called Kosher Jokes forthe ho Holidays, because there seemed to
be such a sort of like kinshipbetween us, similar sensibility and at during
Christmas time, something we had incommon is that we didn't have much going
on, so that was sort oflike when we started spending more time together
(06:53):
and then we existed in comedy inthe closet for a long time. My
family, I think was kind oflike at first not super upset by the
relationship, my parents because I don'tthink they thought she'd ever come out,
and I'd already been in one gayrelationship, so I'd already kind of like
(07:13):
broken their hearts in that way,and I think they just thought whatever ideas
they had about Muslim girls and theirparents that like, she would never do
that to them, you know,and of what what if she got maybe
she would get on her killed orI don't know what, you know.
And so she didn't get honor killed. And then we got quite serious.
So that that's when my I think, you know, my family, my
(07:36):
parents had had a hard time withIt was twenty fourteen and the bombing in
Gaza. There was a huge youknow, bombardment in twenty fourteen, and
like July, I want to say, and that's when, you know,
whenever that is happening in the background, it always raises tensions on my side
(07:59):
with my family. So it kindof all came to a head as like
moving here or talking about moving here, getting serious, Emune coming out bombing
Agaz on twenty fourteen, me startingto post on social media about Israel,
and I think that was sort oflike yeah, when I realized, like,
oh, this is this is aproblem, and it's it's it's definitely
(08:20):
that she's it's not that she's Muslimso much. It's definitely not the gay
thing. So it's it has tobe the Palacidian thing. Wow. And
how did that make you feel asa person who was obviously having this beautiful
relationship with somebody that you're not probablyeven defining by a label right now,
not to say that we shouldn't honorwho we are and the parts that make
us up, but how did thatmake you feel? Like from your perspective,
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I mean, it's always difficult,Like you know, when your parents
and your partner, you know,when there's tension there that happens. That's
probably one of the most universal experiences, whether it's has and you could be
too white Christian people that are youknow, very on paper suited to each
other, and for whatever reason,everybody hates her partner or you hate their
(09:07):
parents or whatever it is. SoI think that, like in law,
thing is pretty universal. People canbe very liberal when it's not happening to
them. Also, well, youknow, like there was I often say
there were like definitely some like peoplefamily friends that were like yeah, of
(09:28):
course, like you know what,like on board and maybe even a little
bit suggesting that my mom should behaving an easier time when like all of
their kids were married to Jews guys, you know, in straight Jewish relationships
with people in finance, you knowwhat I mean, Yeah, Like we
saw that with the you know,black white like I after I came from
(09:50):
a family that was like, wewe don't have any problems with black people,
just don't marry one of our kids, right, Like, It's like
exactly to your point. And thankfully, you know, my family is at
least the ones existing still have changeda lot of their mindset things, largely
because I grew up to challenge that. I grew up to challenge that ideology,
right, you know, And Ithink that's what it takes a bit
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going to segue into things. Sowhat was your Jewish education growing up?
You know, you were from Canada, so obviously you had your experiences,
You had the Shabbat dinners, youyou're you know, as you shared with
us or with me. I knowbeforehand your family wasn't extremely religious. You
did the high holidays and you didJewish camp. But you know what was
(10:33):
what was the extent of your Jewisheducation that really shaped your understanding of the
world. Well, you know,Jewish education happens really young, so it's
usually you know, over technically atleast what you're sort of put into as
a kid. Anything after that issort of your own personal exploration decision to
study religion later but usually ends atlike twelve thirteen, So that was the
(10:56):
age I would say that I hadtwo after I went to a school that
was not UH, that was mostlyChristian kids, but I had after school
Jewish education Hebrew class, one ofwhich I remember super fondly in this woman
(11:16):
named missus Paris's basement. I thinkshe was a frustrated broad like wanted to
be a Broadway star actress, andso she was really she had some pipes
on her and she'd always wear thisteal sweatsuit and she would she made the
Jewish history sound really interesting, andit was a lot of sort of Bible
stories, and we learned the songsand the prayers. And then the other
UH class I had at different,I don't know what years, I think
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maybe later after school at my synagogue, and that's where I got more of
the Israel story. What I nowlike recognize is the like the seeds of
this Zionist narrative that still I stillsee it coming up. You know,
I still see people making these samepoints. But what I'll say about Jewish
(12:01):
education because I just think maybe thisis important to like contextualize like where the
mindset comes from. You know,we learn about the Holocaust when we're really
young, like I, you know, I'll say that, like I wasn't
tough, but I wasn't afraid ofmonsters or ghosts or the Boogeyman because I
had already learned about the Nazis,you know. So it's like very difficult
to be scared of the Boogeyman whenyou know about the Nazis. There's no
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you know, there's no Boogeyman memorialmuseum. No one's grandmother's going missing on
account of the Boogeyman. You know, Boogieman I think is probably Jewish.
I think I think Boogeyman is it? I think it was Joshua Boogeyman.
You know, you made some poorlife choices, but you learn about it.
It's like the Holocaust of law dropyour head around at any age.
But when you're Jewish, you learnabout it so so young, and you
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kind of learned about it at thesame time. Is that you as you
learn that you're Jewish, so yourparents are like just you know, there
were these people that were called theNazis, and what they wanted to do
is get rid of all the Jews. And at the same time they're like
oh, and by the way,you're Jewish and you're like, what,
like this sucks? You know.Yeah, what they did was they had
these camps that were just for murder, and this summer, we're going to
send you to camp with just Jews, Like are you even my real parents
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do love me? Like what's happening? And that's sort of like the setup,
you know. And then because it'sJewish education, you're sort of meant
made to feel like you're the centralvictim and a horror movie. The next
chapter is like, so, thisHolocaust happened people, you know, these
Germans going to give it all theJews. But luckily, you know,
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we got our own country. We'vegot this safe haven, a Jewish homeland.
And then you're like you do yourbreath and it feels like and then
it's like but immediately we were attackedand they haven't stopped Attackingess nobody wants us
to exist, you know. Andand it's sort of like set up in
this way where you're totally paralyzed fromthe Holocaust, like education and continue mean,
(14:00):
you know, to go to Holocaustmuseums, like every nightmare I had
was about the Nazis. It's soand then there's just so many Holocaust movies
and I you know, interviewed Holocaustsurvivors in high school for a project that
was, you know, taking testimonialsfor the university genocide program. And that
fear has been you know weaponized overtime, you know, now with the
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whole apparatus that exists at anti Semitismorganizations that are really well funded and have
a lot of accounts online and peoplefollow them, and it just all of
it feeds into this, like thisoriginal fear that's very well based when you're
a child, but that the answerto that is this country and and hopefully
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you know, this explains a littlebit of the psychology of outside of the
sort of going through the Zionist talkingpoints, you know, right what divides
us as an illusion, we're somuch more alike. And when I think
about my kids who also have likefelt the target of hey right now,
you know, I mean obviously whenTrump was you know, you talk about
(15:11):
twenty sixteen and people were trying tothrow Muslims out the country, and I'm
like, I've got Muslim children thereto have to sit down and explain to
them, maybe now is not agood time for you to tell people you're
Muslim, just out of fear fortheir safety. Did you when it came
to you and your wife's experiences,was there ever moments when you actually realized
you both have been painted incorrectly andthat those narratives have been robbed from you
(15:35):
guys? I mean, there weredefinitely certain points during the Trump presidency where
we had different sort of red linesas to when we would go back to
Canada, because I mean we werethe borders close to New York, were
from Montreal. It was always apossibility for us. The registration of the
first thing was the idea of registeringMuslims right before the Muslim ban, and
(15:58):
that felt very familiar, not thatI had experienced that, but that was
very Holocaust, early Holocaust, youknow. So, and there were a
lot of Jewish people who you know, and including like the Antidefamation League like
on some issues will like really beout there for, you know, against
(16:22):
discrimination against Muslim people as long asit doesn't sort of like cross the line
into like supporting Palestine. But atthat time they were also a lot of
Jewish people were like, well,I'm going to register as Muslim, right,
so you're going to start registering andthat was like one of the first
things, and then it would turnto the band. And then there were
other moments of like real like antiyou know, anti Semitic rhetoric from the
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government, from Trump, from thiswhite supremacist the Charlottesville you know, like
those were moments where I think,you know, Emon was like, oh,
that's so, I don't know,I shouldn't swear on this. It
seems like you're loud. Damn.Oh no, mom, dude. Yeah.
(17:11):
So so there were like there weretimes, Yeah, I think that,
you know, she always has She'salways had such an affinity she loves
I mean, honestly, I feellike Virgison fetish for for Jewish people and
Jewish culture, and she sounds likeJewish. Jokes that she learned how to
speak English watching Joy Behar on theView, who isn't Jewish but Italians and
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Jews in New York. I don'tknow what it is here, but it's
very hard to tell them apart sometimes. But but yeah, I think,
you know, I haven't seen upticksand anti semitism those moments for me.
Charlottesville I think was like a realyou know that, and and the synagogue
in Pittsburgh, those were big momentsand so and then there's the general you
(18:00):
know, gay stuff that I guesshits both of us right right. There
was actually there was a moment withCOVID in New York where you know,
where things were like really bad,really early on and Mount SINAI had I
don't know if it was out ofdesperation or what, but they gave a
contract for a tent hospital in CentralPark to this evangelical group and that were
(18:22):
the very Islamophobic and anti gay,and you know, I that was for
me as the breaking point of likewe're going back to Canada right now,
because I was like, you know, you're Muslim. I'm gay, And
I was like, I mean you'reMuslim too. But like so there's like
the second you know, the differentidentities and moments of panic. But certainly
(18:45):
like I don't experience anything like whatshe has I because she's you know this
moment now. I think for alot of Arabs of a certain age,
like remember how it was after notlike for Emon, she grew up in
the middle and until she came toCanada when she was ten, she didn't
really understand that people didn't like Arabsbecause you're just like only with in the
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middle you're only against Arabs, andthen came to Canada, experienced some discrimination
and then nine to eleven happened,and it was Yeah, it was very
much like tell people that were Cuban. Right. Obviously, a lot is
going on in the world right now. You have continued to be an advocate.
You've definitely used your platform to tryto educate. And two and as
(19:30):
such, you've been I know youyou know you've been called a Jew hater,
You've been called a trader to theJewish community. You know what if
you've learnt a lot of German Naziworks for Jews that collaborated let's just say
that I had to put through Googletranslit. Yeah, oh wow with what
you know? You had said somethingin our pre conversation. It's you said,
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you know, people need to notbe part of the problem, they
need to be part of the solution. How in your opinion right now,
is that something that they can actuallyaccomplish when a lot of them still have
their heads in the sand or theydon't like even the even anti Semitic I've
had to consistently educate people to sayyou realize Arabs are also semit it's like
Palestinians are Semite, so it's notanti Semitic to say I just want Palestinians
(20:17):
to have the right to freedom andintegrity and some water and some food,
no differently than you and I haveright. So so yeah, so let
me let you answer that that istrue. We are both semis. Yeah,
I wonder. I'm just starting thinking. I'm like, oh, is
that why they the anti Semitism groupshave been changing their names to like jew
hate. It's like all like hashtag. Well, if you if you haven't
asked about the hostages, maybe it'sjew hate, right, you know.
(20:41):
So I don't know, Like nowI'm starting maybe they've like heard that enough
that yeah, enough people are gettingeducated. They have to rebrand. Now
they have to rebrand. Listen,they are the There's nothing that they're not
doing that's not branding. There's somuch branding, and some of it's so
embarrassing anyway and really just cringey.There's a group called Jew Belonged. I
(21:07):
don't know, just generally they havethese billboards that are terrible. But anyway,
I digress. I did say Iwanted to be part of the solution,
not part of the problem. Ithink just you know, challenge yourself
to do the research. I guess, ask for resources. I think,
(21:30):
I just I think it's so importantto hear from Palestinian people, to read
pasting authors, to follow Palestinian journalistsand voices. If you don't have Palestinian
friends, write me right you,they're my handles there. I think that's
important is just to like, it'snot so complicated, you know, finding
(21:53):
a solution. It's going to taketime because there's so much distressed and so
much division, and so in theextreme, most extreme people are in power,
and there's a lot of interests aroundweapons that make a lot of money,
resources, and you know, sothere's a lot of that's what's complicated.
But what's not complicated is Palatine cannotcontinue to exist under an occupation,
(22:19):
under an apartheid regime, and certainlynot under this kind of bombardment right right
now, I think it's try toget a cease fire, just to join
a protest. They're honestly a veryvery healing, wonderful experience. If you
see anyone being shitty, shut itdown, report them whatever, raise your
(22:41):
voice, call your reps. Imean, a lot of us, like
in New York. You know,I'm in like a very blue place.
A lot of times me writing orcalling about abortion. It's not going to
change. It doesn't change so much. But on Israel, yeah, absolutely,
you know, I think get justkeep pounding them and I don't know,
(23:03):
Yeah, that's I guess my advice. No, I love that,
and I agree with you, andI mean, yes, crack open a
book, you know, open yourinternet articles, Yeah, yeah, search,
We don't you don't even have togo that, you don't even have
to go to the library. Butit's it's amazing how reading and opening yourself
up to somebody else's perspective can reallydo something. And I find I'm you
know, I kind of have thatlike beech Armer mentality to something. Don't
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get me wrong, you know,I am definitely a type of person don't
start now and won't be none right. Like I mean, even when it
comes to this conversation around Palestine,people often forget. There's an amazing documentary
out there. Michael Ware produced it. It's called Only Only the Dead but
the completion of that is Only theDead See the End of War. And
it was an incredible documentary about Iraqbag Dad. What it looked like before,
(23:48):
what it looked like during. Youknow, you got military personnel coming
up to a business owner saying,shut down your store. Now we think
there's someone here. You don't havea right to provide for your family.
We don't care, and if youdon't do it, we're gonna make you
very uncomfortable, right because then you'resuddenly in hot water. And I mean,
I think about the American or ourwesternized world ideology. Let somebody show
(24:11):
up on my doorstep and tell meget out no, right, like I
think that it breaks. So youmean any of the stand your ground,
where's my gun? Where's my gun? I don't understand how people can suddenly,
in the case of another person,feel that that's okay. And you
(24:33):
know, in in that like II genuinely I consider myself a beech armor
in the good sense that my firstreaction to conflict is how can we de
escalate? How can we remind eachother that one none of this really matters.
If you die tomorrow, then we'reall losing for it, you know,
like we there's so much more thanthis moment that we're experiencing. We
(24:56):
maybe you're angry, maybe you're frustrated, all those emotions are valid, but
at the end of the day,we should still see each other, keep
a mental acuity that you're still aperson, you matter, and I might
be feeling something right now, butthat's just my feelings. That's not the
situation. And you know, whenI see people get started, you know,
(25:17):
in fact, we were at afootball game, and yeah, a
shocker that at a football game.Some people got a little rowdy, but
we kind of there was a son, there was a man with his son.
This is that. Then. I'mactually gonna tell this really because it
was the Giants Raiders game, andI don't know what happened, but the
guy with his son, this guyjust starts getting really aggressive. Now,
the people I'm with, we're like, listen, we're all parents. We
(25:40):
see this seven eight year old boywatching his dad get verbally assaulted. We
all step in. We pull himback. I'm whispering in his ear,
calm down, it's not you know, this is not worth it. I
you know, take a deep breath. And honestly, when I see things
happen, that's my initial instinct becauseI want to make it better. I
want people to see past the moment. And I think when you bring up
(26:03):
the protests when you go out andyou I mean, I'm not gonna lie
just I see the conflicts and Iwant to go stand next to one of
the people holding an Israeli flag andI want to go bring the Palestinian flag
right next to it. I wantto put my arm around them, and
I want to say, we don'thave to feel like this. Aren't we
better together than apart? You know? And I feel that with that there
(26:27):
could be so much more healing,But instead there's there's there's a lot of
a lot of criticalness. What hasthe protest experience been than me? I'm
like, escalate, escalate, andI'm gonna what you know. I mean,
I'm very argumentative, but this islike the law background. I mean,
one of the things we talked about, like very early was about inter
(26:51):
interracial dating. And I remember thatbeing like one of my early arguments when
my parents, I don't know whateverage I was starting to maybe date and
they started saying, you know,I should date somebody Jewish and I was
like, okay, what about AnythiopianJew? And I was like they were
like, uh, you know,and I got it from the protests.
(27:12):
You know, it's it's always everyexperience I've had it just because there's you
you feel so desperate, like you'renot doing anything but sort of being online
or doom scrolling, panicking it's happened, you know. There was obviously the
Black Lives Matter movement, like proteststhat summer in twenty twenty, and prior
to that, I mean, theWomen's March. It does make you feel
(27:34):
at least if it's there are acouple of things that it's connecting with other
people, feeling like you're not alonein this. It makes you feel less
crazy. It makes you feel likeyou're participating in something. It's a good
way to sort of organize and meetother like minded people. It's you get
your steps in, you know,fresh air, get and I think you
(27:59):
know, with respect to in thisparticular case, when I early on I
went to a Jewish rally that wasin a Grand Army plaza and then kind
of went to truck Schumer's apartment.The videos and pictures I posted of at
like, I had such an overwhelmingamount of messages from Palestinians, from people
(28:22):
in the air world just like sayingit was bringing them to tears. Like
it's just it's so meaningful in thisparticular case for people there to see that
despite what the government is doing,despite the dehumanization that people around the world,
people in New York Jewish people areare standing up and saying that what's
(28:45):
happening is unacceptable, that they're humanbeings and that every life matters. And
I had no idea, like Iknow what it meant for me. I
knew like it was important to do, but I didn't realize what those images,
how life affirming it would be forpeople in Palestine, especially that feel
(29:07):
like nobody cares, that feel thatthey're dispensable. You know. I've been
in that in two thousand and sixwith my own husband at the time.
Now he's my ex husband. Soit's funny because I always tell him like,
I'm not as big as a fan, but in that moment we're forever
tied, and that experience will forevertie. Is because of course, as
a wife, I didn't want myhusband to get killed, you know,
And even in the conversations today,I let people know, Listen, I've
(29:32):
never ran from a hamas missile.I've never ran from an ise dismissal,
I've never ran from a husband andmissile but my family has run from Israeli
missiles unfortunately, and had to sitthere and wonder if tonight was going to
be the night it's it to feelthe world. And even at that time,
I had to get on, youknow, I had to, I
(29:52):
had to angle myself. Thankfully Ihad enough media knowledge to know that the
reason I could get the media topay attention to me was because I said,
but I'm an American family with childand my husband. You know,
he was Palestinian, but at thatpoint he'd already gained American citizenship on his
own before he married me. Iknow, he did not marry me for
citizenship. He was American before Imet him. But that's to feel like
because we're Muslim or because we're Arab, suddenly it's okay, no big deal.
(30:18):
And so right now I think you'reso right the way that we're humanizing
one another and standing up for another. And it's critical because you do have
too many governments saying well, ourinterests are what's most important right now.
And mind you, I'm so gladthat that's actually like what fourteen we're the
one who's fourteen countries including the USand the UK that voted against the ceasefire
and the UN vote. I mean, it was It's nice to know that
(30:41):
over one hundred, you know,countries said no, this is wrong.
But we still have a long wayto go, because, as we keep
saying, and I want to remindeveryone, if if the ceasefire ends today,
there's this is only the beginning.I'll just keep saying it. There's
lives that have been destroyed. AndI feel that as much effort is going
to support the Jewish community or theIsraeli communities, should equally be going to
(31:06):
Palestinians. Is it most important toyou right now to kind of dispel a
lot of what we see, whichis like these talking points about Zionism and
the state of Israel and Palestinians aren'tnative, Like what are what right now?
Are some of the most important mythsfor you to dispel as a person
that's part of this community with youreducation, knowledge and experience, I mean,
you know, I started with sortof the classic talking points that you
(31:26):
see a lot from Zionists and sortof open up my DMS to say,
like, if anybody needs any help, I sort of I tried to focus
a lot on international law because that'smy background. Despite the fact that like
I mean, I kid you not. This guy came in into the comments
and was like, well, that'sso nice that you just like, oh,
like what a cool term ethnic cleansinglike that you just the social justice
(31:49):
warriors just came up with this woketerm like for this conflict. I'm like,
what are you talking about? Likejust absolute like it's like, no,
this is like a woke turn.There's been in terms of like Islam,
Islamophobia, anti Semitism, these incidentshere, there's a lot of people
that like jump on it. There'sthese certainly on the Jewish side, there's
(32:12):
a lot of organizations that solely workon basically blowing up anti Semitism on campus
as like the greatest threat that exists, and they will spread misinformation before having
like a police report or you know. And so I'm just trying to like
hopefully this will help like dial downsome of the panic and fear and extremism
(32:37):
online. But yes, focusing onarguments basically like now this thing that I
just don't understand of like if youask for a seascar that that's somehow Jewish
hate that if you're asking for aseas far you don't care about the hostages,
Like, I don't like these ideasthat I see repeated and I know
other people do that don't make senseto me. I try to Like,
That's what I kind of have beenfocusing on in aside from the fact that
(33:00):
you're this you know, amazing comedianwith this very intriguing background, the fact
that you were a Uman criminal lawattorney. And I went to law school
too also when I was younger becauseI thought I was really good at arguing.
That's like so many people I knowgo to because I'm really really good
at debating, and I felt likeI needed to be an attorney. But
you know that how this there ishuman war crimes at large. Here,
(33:22):
there is violations of international law,and traditionally, as we saw with the
Holocaust, those people were held responsible. Now we're not seeing that. How
when you put on your you andyou know, law crimes attorney had what
what are the things that people reallycannot deny whether they want to or not,
Really what's the facts here? Yeah? So I think that most people
(33:44):
that are genocide scholars that work inthis area that are anyways able to speak
freely. Sometimes in the legal worldyou can't because it's like sort of prejudice,
is like maybe potential case or something. But people who are academics,
who are experts in genocide, mostof you and agencies have either said that
(34:05):
there's a genocide happening in Gaza.There's sort of different terms. But I
for me from you know, everythingthat I've seen, the case for genocide
has been quite clearly made out.When Israel talks about it's right to self
defense, technically that isn't true becauseit isn't occupying power in Gaza, not
(34:30):
in the sense of the occupation likethe West Bank. For the purposes of
international law, it exercises effective controlof the territory, which qualifies it as
an occupying power, meaning it doesn'thave a right to self defense. But
that kind of talk about right toself defense is like the area of international
law that deals with it's a Latinterm juice ad bellum, the the legality
(34:52):
of the aggression of doing what you'redoing, versus juice in bello, which
is the laws that apply once thisis happening, and so putting aside the
self defense Israel's right to respond,how is it responding? Is it respecting
the laws of war? Absolutely notalso Hamas did not respect the rules of
(35:16):
war in the way that it attackedIsraeli civilians, elderly people, women,
children, civilians in general, andtook hostages. That those are also war
crimes. And I also got tosay, of course an an audience,
I'm not saying Hamas is right inany way, shape or form, but
(35:38):
resistance is born of these type ofoccupations, right. And I think a
lot of people don't know history onthe Jewish side. You know, people
have this perception that during the Holocaust, while all the Jews just walked into
the chambers innocently and took what happenedto them. But in fact, you
know, and people can google this, there were Jewish resistance groups that tried
(35:58):
to stop what was happening to them. And they at times, and rightly
so, felt vindicated to exert violencebecause there was an oppression. There was
a you know, a dismissal oftheir human rights and their life and the
way that the language was often used, you know, they were called human
animals. There was the way thatthey were you know, they're the problem,
(36:22):
that's what you know, the Germanthe third right and Nazis, Yeah,
humanization exactly, and so when wesee that happening from the Israeli leadership,
it's very very concerning and to me, you know, I hear,
I'm curious about your thought on thisbecause a lot of times people are like,
well, there's all these Arab countriesaround, why don't they just get
(36:43):
involved? And I mean, look, I do feel to some extent,
while people can say they just don'twant to be involved or that, you
know, people will two things.People have said, oh, nobody,
none of the Arabs are supporting Palestine. Wrong. We I know, my
family, I know, we haveconstantly sent humanitarian aid, We've donated to
organizations that go in there and help. But also, nobody wants to mess
with America. Nobody. We allknow what the big brother is behind,
(37:08):
you know, is the state ofIsrael. I think that people forget that.
Knowing so knowing that if let's justhypothetically Lebanon and Syria and Jordan,
I'll get up, they get theirmilitary and say we're going to war.
What do you think would be theoutcome of that? And is it not
right that they're a bit trepidacious instarting that type of offense? Yeah?
(37:31):
So, I I mean in termsof the Arab countries. I think that
they for a very long time haveneglected two on the diplomatic front, financial
front, there's a lot of especiallyin recent years, a Gulf countries have
a lot of wealth and rather thanmake these side agreements with Jared Kushner and
like completely exclude the Palestinians, leavethem behind, like they have been pretty
(37:55):
shitty in that way. Like agree, there's a lot that diplomatically the Arab
tries could do to put their weightbehind the Palestinian cause, and especially the
ones that have a lot of money. Right, militarily, I agree with
you one hundred percent. I mean, Israel is a nuclear power. Uh
it never said it before, butone of its ministers was like, I
(38:15):
think we could mention dropping an atomicbomb, and everyone was like, well,
I guess there's the admission of nuclearrefords, although it was pretty obvious
and obviously it has the US inits back pockets. So no, I
don't think there's anything they can domilitarily. But the argument behind this idea
of like where why don't the Arabcountries do more? What's behind that is
(38:37):
why don't they just take the Palestinians? Right? And certainly they've taken a
lot of Palestinians. But what thatdoes is it's it's essentially you know,
like, why don't they help uswith our ethnic cletonsing right, like and
and it's and it's not. Andon top of that, what it does,
which is what Zionists do so much, is a raised Palestinian people as
(39:00):
a people, because what you're sayingis, but you're all Arabs. What's
the difference? Right? So yeah, so I think that you know,
part of you know, you've probablyseen this, like these graphics or these
means where it's like book, theseare all the Arabs have all this land,
and oh, we're just the Jews. We just want this little piece.
Why can't we just have this littlepiece? You'll we're colonized, we
just have a little piece. Whycan't we have that little piece? Why
(39:22):
does everyone hit it? You knowso much? And we do get the
Holocaust and like and like that.Basically it's like but look at the it's
like you're you're putting all Arabs asone group of people, which is just
more erasure and left me like,if anyone has proven how important it is
for them to be their culture,their nation on a piece of land.
(39:43):
I mean it's the Palestinian people,right, you think we the Jewish people,
we will flee like we will flee, And I don't think that's bad.
That's just who we are, ourhistory and that's what we've been,
you know. And we're not necessarilytied, although like we've some people are
tied religiously and they to this pieceof line now, right, But for
many years it wasn't the case.So you know, people are just there
(40:05):
like, well we we we leftand we packed up and we started new.
Why don't these people, you know, right, they still wreckuge like
they don't get it. No,you're absolute larning because also I distinguish the
difference. I do distinguish the differencebetween the governments and the like the Royal
Saudis and you know that they're drivingaround in their Bentley's and meanwhile, let
everyone else suffer, it doesn't matter. So I agree with you there.
But I mean there are people whocare and have tried to but with their
(40:27):
limited resources. Right, and Eric, sorry, the Emirates are building a
hospital in Gaza right now, Ithink, and Jordan dropped food in right,
right, and Saudi will have tobe put the build rebuilding for I
hope they will. Yeah, listen, we so appreciate your time, your
voice, your effort. I knowthat there's so much we could have covered.
But you know, in the meantime, you know, where can people
(40:51):
go with you know, your websiteor how do you want them to support
you for our listening audience as well? Well? For me, I think,
yeah, just follow me online.I'm on Twitter, threads, Instagram,
TikTok, Facebook, It's mostly it'sjust underscore Solomon and I have like
a link tree there you can signup to like a mailing list and watch
(41:13):
some I have some content there andshow dates and I just want to say,
uh, there's a group. CanI shout out yes? Okay,
so there's there's Because of this,I think what's so important is Healestenians and
Jews or you know people interfaith Arabs, Jews, Muslims like getting it being
working together at a grassroots level.This, I think is where it's like.
(41:36):
Without this separation is is just leadsto athering and allows dehumanization to take
hold. So there's one group inIsrael that I have recently been following,
and they're called at Standing Dot TogetherDot Movement and it's Arabs and Arab Israelis
and Jewish Israelis who are working tobridge the gap between people's and working towards
(42:01):
peace. There amazing and over here, I just shout out to this.
I really love this website. It'sa lefty Jewish and eciten this website called
Jewish Currents, so I would checkthat out. I appreciate that. Thank
you so much for your time,your energy, your voice. I look
forward to continuing following your work andeverybody stay connected. Thank you so much.
(42:22):
Jess, We'll talk to you.Was such a pleasure. Thank you
into everyone else at home. Thankyou. I I you know it's it's
a lot, but it's necessary.If and I'm just going to close with
this, if your version of heavenrequires someone else to experience hell, then
you're an oppressor, simple and plain. I don't sit on any moral high
(42:46):
ground as I am a multicultural Americanand with that its own dark history of
not really respecting other people's humans rights. But I have a choice to make
a difference, and I make thatnow every single day, and as a
person who happens to have a partGerman background. In addition to all the
ones that I have. I studiedWorld War Two quite intensely, and I
(43:07):
was you know, as I've sharedbefore, I was mystified by the amount
of people that could blindly follow itand allow it to happen. And of
course, years later, when theworld's eyes were opened to their great misfortune,
that we all agreed it wasn't okay. So I'm asking you what makes
(43:28):
you think it's okay? Now?The truth is it's not. And together
we must continue to stand up,we must continue to raise our voices,
and we must continue to fight forthe liberation of all, including the Palestinians.
Thank you so much, We'll seeyou next time, and of course,
thank you for letting us be unsugarcoated. Take care
From Ubin Studios. You're listening toUnsugarcoated with Alia bringing you interviews with public
figures and inspirational people speaking on selfimprovement with empowered themes, and I'm your
host, Ali Olaneus. Hello,Hello to the world. I hope you
are well. I hope this episodefinds you safe, happy, but also
(00:27):
present. As you know, thisis a very special season for us,
for me personally as an impact producer. Some of the conversations we've had up
to this point have just been soincredible, and again, I'm incredibly grateful
for the people who are joining mein this initiative to humanize one another and
really speak through our theme from LosAngeles to Gaza, a plea for humanity,
(00:52):
Like I'm actually going to do somethinga little bit different sometimes I do
these things, you guys, know, those of you who have been with
me for a long time. I'mgoing to read a poem because it's really
gonna start off this conversation in away that I need to, and it's
gonna encapsulate what I kind of hopeis the overall message of this episode,
and particularly the conversation with my guestMaya Angelou wrote a book called I Know
(01:17):
Why the Caged Bird Sings, Andfor me that book was transformational in my
life. When I saw the title, I actually knew exactly what it meant.
It resonated so profoundly with me whenI think today of the Palestinian plight,
No words sum it up for mebetter than that itself. But I'd
like to read you the poem thatMaya Angelou wrote, and it is titled
(01:41):
Caged Bird. A free bird leapson the back of the wind and floats
downstream till the current ends, anddips his wing in the orange sun rays
and dares to claim the sky.But a bird that stalks down his narrow
cage can seldom see through his barsof rage. His wings are clipped and
(02:05):
his feet are tied, so heopens his throat to sing. The caged
bird sings with a fearful trill ofthings unknown but longed for still, and
his tune is heard on the distanthill. For the caged bird sings of
freedom. The free bird thinks ofanother breeze and the trade wind's soft through
(02:25):
the sighing trees, and the fatworms waiting on a dawn bright lawn,
and he names the sky his own, But a caged bird stands on the
grave of dreams. His shadow shoutson a nightmare scream. His wings are
clipped and his feet are tied,so he opens his throat to sing.
(02:45):
The caged bird sings with a fearfultrill of things unknown but longed for.
Still, and his tune is heardon the distant hill. For the caged
bird sings of freedom. We mustfind a way to understand the issue here
that goes beyond what we think andwhat we know. And I'm always honored
(03:07):
to share conversations with somebody who canoffer a perspective even outside of my own.
I want to take the time tounderstand the depth and give opportunity to
others to reclaim a narrative that isboth for the Jewish and the Palestinian people.
In this moment, please give honorto the people that are coming on
(03:27):
and sharing this heart with me,this heart for humanity. Jess Solomon is
a Jewish born and raised New Yorkbased Canadian comedian and has hit many places,
including The Tonight Show with Jimmy Fallon. Jess fearlessly tackles dark, political,
and sometimes even dirty topics with alighthearted touch. And her comedic talents
(03:47):
have taken her to prestigious festivals likeJust for Laughs and the New York Comedy
Festival, where she recorded her debutalbum All the Best Choices. But Jess
is more than just a comedian.She's also a gift did writer, having
contributed to ACCLAIM shows like baroness OnSketch and The Beaverton And if that's not
impressive enough. Before her comedy career, just was a un war crimes lawyer.
(04:10):
A remarkable journey that we cannot waitto explore. Ladies and gentlemen,
Jess Salmon, we're in the clubright now, right right, everyone,
Please take your seats, thanks toomuch. You moved in twenty sixteen from
the US to New York. That'swhere the title All the Best Choices came
(04:34):
from at the time, because Iwould you know, I'd moved from Canada
with my Muslim wife right before Trumpgot elected. Yes, yes, audience,
you heard that correctly. You heardshe moved to the US from Canada
with her Muslim and additionally Palestinian wife, right Palestinian. Yes, I mean
tell me about that experience, youknow, whether it was from your Jewish
(04:57):
community or the community like what wasthat experience like for you? My wife
and I we met when our whenour families introduced us. That's that's that's
my favorite cocktail joke. It's itdoesn't work as well here. But when
people are how did you guys meet? Our parents introduced us, They're like,
no, no, that's not whathappened. We met doing comedy in
Montreal. And you know, mymy wife, her name is eman Al
(05:21):
Lusceni. She was straight up untilme. Thank you, So I converted
you at this right now? Imean, yeah, like full disclosure to
the audience, And I mean,I really have to say this. I've
I've had friends who we've made jokeson their deathbed and that's not a joke.
That's like literally, I feel thathumor is something we need. And
(05:41):
honestly, with a lot of theseheavy conversations, if you hear me laugh,
it's because you know it, Godbless us for just laughing taking the
moment. Please, yes, pleaseplease. So, I mean our marriage
is definitely a source of laughter andcomedy for sure, And yeah, I
think it. You know, forus, she was she was a straight
like her tire act her life.She was this straight single gal, you
(06:05):
know, talk. She talked aboutbeing I think at the time you talked
about being Palestinian and Arab for sure, but it was a lot of you
know, men women jokes, theclassic This was years ago, you know,
in the comedy club. There wasa lot of topics weren't really acceptable.
So I ended up it caught meby surprise our relationship happening. Emon
(06:30):
was at the time bringing Muslim andJewish comics together on the comedy scene to
do a show called Kosher Jokes forthe ho Holidays, because there seemed to
be such a sort of like kinshipbetween us, similar sensibility and at during
Christmas time, something we had incommon is that we didn't have much going
on, so that was sort oflike when we started spending more time together
(06:53):
and then we existed in comedy inthe closet for a long time. My
family, I think was kind oflike at first not super upset by the
relationship, my parents because I don'tthink they thought she'd ever come out,
and I'd already been in one gayrelationship, so I'd already kind of like
(07:13):
broken their hearts in that way,and I think they just thought whatever ideas
they had about Muslim girls and theirparents that like, she would never do
that to them, you know,and of what what if she got maybe
she would get on her killed orI don't know what, you know.
And so she didn't get honor killed. And then we got quite serious.
So that that's when my I think, you know, my family, my
(07:36):
parents had had a hard time withIt was twenty fourteen and the bombing in
Gaza. There was a huge youknow, bombardment in twenty fourteen, and
like July, I want to say, and that's when, you know,
whenever that is happening in the background, it always raises tensions on my side
(07:59):
with my family. So it kindof all came to a head as like
moving here or talking about moving here, getting serious, Emune coming out bombing
Agaz on twenty fourteen, me startingto post on social media about Israel,
and I think that was sort oflike yeah, when I realized, like,
oh, this is this is aproblem, and it's it's it's definitely
(08:20):
that she's it's not that she's Muslimso much. It's definitely not the gay
thing. So it's it has tobe the Palacidian thing. Wow. And
how did that make you feel asa person who was obviously having this beautiful
relationship with somebody that you're not probablyeven defining by a label right now,
not to say that we shouldn't honorwho we are and the parts that make
us up, but how did thatmake you feel? Like from your perspective,
(08:43):
I mean, it's always difficult,Like you know, when your parents
and your partner, you know,when there's tension there that happens. That's
probably one of the most universal experiences, whether it's has and you could be
too white Christian people that are youknow, very on paper suited to each
other, and for whatever reason,everybody hates her partner or you hate their
(09:07):
parents or whatever it is. SoI think that, like in law,
thing is pretty universal. People canbe very liberal when it's not happening to
them. Also, well, youknow, like there was I often say
there were like definitely some like peoplefamily friends that were like yeah, of
(09:28):
course, like you know what,like on board and maybe even a little
bit suggesting that my mom should behaving an easier time when like all of
their kids were married to Jews guys, you know, in straight Jewish relationships
with people in finance, you knowwhat I mean, Yeah, Like we
saw that with the you know,black white like I after I came from
(09:50):
a family that was like, wewe don't have any problems with black people,
just don't marry one of our kids, right, Like, It's like
exactly to your point. And thankfully, you know, my family is at
least the ones existing still have changeda lot of their mindset things, largely
because I grew up to challenge that. I grew up to challenge that ideology,
right, you know, And Ithink that's what it takes a bit
(10:11):
going to segue into things. Sowhat was your Jewish education growing up?
You know, you were from Canada, so obviously you had your experiences,
You had the Shabbat dinners, youyou're you know, as you shared with
us or with me. I knowbeforehand your family wasn't extremely religious. You
did the high holidays and you didJewish camp. But you know what was
(10:33):
what was the extent of your Jewisheducation that really shaped your understanding of the
world. Well, you know,Jewish education happens really young, so it's
usually you know, over technically atleast what you're sort of put into as
a kid. Anything after that issort of your own personal exploration decision to
study religion later but usually ends atlike twelve thirteen, So that was the
(10:56):
age I would say that I hadtwo after I went to a school that
was not UH, that was mostlyChristian kids, but I had after school
Jewish education Hebrew class, one ofwhich I remember super fondly in this woman
(11:16):
named missus Paris's basement. I thinkshe was a frustrated broad like wanted to
be a Broadway star actress, andso she was really she had some pipes
on her and she'd always wear thisteal sweatsuit and she would she made the
Jewish history sound really interesting, andit was a lot of sort of Bible
stories, and we learned the songsand the prayers. And then the other
UH class I had at different,I don't know what years, I think
(11:39):
maybe later after school at my synagogue, and that's where I got more of
the Israel story. What I nowlike recognize is the like the seeds of
this Zionist narrative that still I stillsee it coming up. You know,
I still see people making these samepoints. But what I'll say about Jewish
(12:01):
education because I just think maybe thisis important to like contextualize like where the
mindset comes from. You know,we learn about the Holocaust when we're really
young, like I, you know, I'll say that, like I wasn't
tough, but I wasn't afraid ofmonsters or ghosts or the Boogeyman because I
had already learned about the Nazis,you know. So it's like very difficult
to be scared of the Boogeyman whenyou know about the Nazis. There's no
(12:26):
you know, there's no Boogeyman memorialmuseum. No one's grandmother's going missing on
account of the Boogeyman. You know, Boogieman I think is probably Jewish.
I think I think Boogeyman is it? I think it was Joshua Boogeyman.
You know, you made some poorlife choices, but you learn about it.
It's like the Holocaust of law dropyour head around at any age.
But when you're Jewish, you learnabout it so so young, and you
(12:48):
kind of learned about it at thesame time. Is that you as you
learn that you're Jewish, so yourparents are like just you know, there
were these people that were called theNazis, and what they wanted to do
is get rid of all the Jews. And at the same time they're like
oh, and by the way,you're Jewish and you're like, what,
like this sucks? You know.Yeah, what they did was they had
these camps that were just for murder, and this summer, we're going to
send you to camp with just Jews, Like are you even my real parents
(13:13):
do love me? Like what's happening? And that's sort of like the setup,
you know. And then because it'sJewish education, you're sort of meant
made to feel like you're the centralvictim and a horror movie. The next
chapter is like, so, thisHolocaust happened people, you know, these
Germans going to give it all theJews. But luckily, you know,
(13:33):
we got our own country. We'vegot this safe haven, a Jewish homeland.
And then you're like you do yourbreath and it feels like and then
it's like but immediately we were attackedand they haven't stopped Attackingess nobody wants us
to exist, you know. Andand it's sort of like set up in
this way where you're totally paralyzed fromthe Holocaust, like education and continue mean,
(14:00):
you know, to go to Holocaustmuseums, like every nightmare I had
was about the Nazis. It's soand then there's just so many Holocaust movies
and I you know, interviewed Holocaustsurvivors in high school for a project that
was, you know, taking testimonialsfor the university genocide program. And that
fear has been you know weaponized overtime, you know, now with the
(14:26):
whole apparatus that exists at anti Semitismorganizations that are really well funded and have
a lot of accounts online and peoplefollow them, and it just all of
it feeds into this, like thisoriginal fear that's very well based when you're
a child, but that the answerto that is this country and and hopefully
(14:50):
you know, this explains a littlebit of the psychology of outside of the
sort of going through the Zionist talkingpoints, you know, right what divides
us as an illusion, we're somuch more alike. And when I think
about my kids who also have likefelt the target of hey right now,
you know, I mean obviously whenTrump was you know, you talk about
(15:11):
twenty sixteen and people were trying tothrow Muslims out the country, and I'm
like, I've got Muslim children thereto have to sit down and explain to
them, maybe now is not agood time for you to tell people you're
Muslim, just out of fear fortheir safety. Did you when it came
to you and your wife's experiences,was there ever moments when you actually realized
you both have been painted incorrectly andthat those narratives have been robbed from you
(15:35):
guys? I mean, there weredefinitely certain points during the Trump presidency where
we had different sort of red linesas to when we would go back to
Canada, because I mean we werethe borders close to New York, were
from Montreal. It was always apossibility for us. The registration of the
first thing was the idea of registeringMuslims right before the Muslim ban, and
(15:58):
that felt very familiar, not thatI had experienced that, but that was
very Holocaust, early Holocaust, youknow. So, and there were a
lot of Jewish people who you know, and including like the Antidefamation League like
on some issues will like really beout there for, you know, against
(16:22):
discrimination against Muslim people as long asit doesn't sort of like cross the line
into like supporting Palestine. But atthat time they were also a lot of
Jewish people were like, well,I'm going to register as Muslim, right,
so you're going to start registering andthat was like one of the first
things, and then it would turnto the band. And then there were
other moments of like real like antiyou know, anti Semitic rhetoric from the
(16:49):
government, from Trump, from thiswhite supremacist the Charlottesville you know, like
those were moments where I think,you know, Emon was like, oh,
that's so, I don't know,I shouldn't swear on this. It
seems like you're loud. Damn.Oh no, mom, dude. Yeah.
(17:11):
So so there were like there weretimes, Yeah, I think that,
you know, she always has She'salways had such an affinity she loves
I mean, honestly, I feellike Virgison fetish for for Jewish people and
Jewish culture, and she sounds likeJewish. Jokes that she learned how to
speak English watching Joy Behar on theView, who isn't Jewish but Italians and
(17:34):
Jews in New York. I don'tknow what it is here, but it's
very hard to tell them apart sometimes. But but yeah, I think,
you know, I haven't seen upticksand anti semitism those moments for me.
Charlottesville I think was like a realyou know that, and and the synagogue
in Pittsburgh, those were big momentsand so and then there's the general you
(18:00):
know, gay stuff that I guesshits both of us right right. There
was actually there was a moment withCOVID in New York where you know,
where things were like really bad,really early on and Mount SINAI had I
don't know if it was out ofdesperation or what, but they gave a
contract for a tent hospital in CentralPark to this evangelical group and that were
(18:22):
the very Islamophobic and anti gay,and you know, I that was for
me as the breaking point of likewe're going back to Canada right now,
because I was like, you know, you're Muslim. I'm gay, And
I was like, I mean you'reMuslim too. But like so there's like
the second you know, the differentidentities and moments of panic. But certainly
(18:45):
like I don't experience anything like whatshe has I because she's you know this
moment now. I think for alot of Arabs of a certain age,
like remember how it was after notlike for Emon, she grew up in
the middle and until she came toCanada when she was ten, she didn't
really understand that people didn't like Arabsbecause you're just like only with in the
(19:07):
middle you're only against Arabs, andthen came to Canada, experienced some discrimination
and then nine to eleven happened,and it was Yeah, it was very
much like tell people that were Cuban. Right. Obviously, a lot is
going on in the world right now. You have continued to be an advocate.
You've definitely used your platform to tryto educate. And two and as
(19:30):
such, you've been I know youyou know you've been called a Jew hater,
You've been called a trader to theJewish community. You know what if
you've learnt a lot of German Naziworks for Jews that collaborated let's just say
that I had to put through Googletranslit. Yeah, oh wow with what
you know? You had said somethingin our pre conversation. It's you said,
(19:52):
you know, people need to notbe part of the problem, they
need to be part of the solution. How in your opinion right now,
is that something that they can actuallyaccomplish when a lot of them still have
their heads in the sand or theydon't like even the even anti Semitic I've
had to consistently educate people to sayyou realize Arabs are also semit it's like
Palestinians are Semite, so it's notanti Semitic to say I just want Palestinians
(20:17):
to have the right to freedom andintegrity and some water and some food,
no differently than you and I haveright. So so yeah, so let
me let you answer that that istrue. We are both semis. Yeah,
I wonder. I'm just starting thinking. I'm like, oh, is
that why they the anti Semitism groupshave been changing their names to like jew
hate. It's like all like hashtag. Well, if you if you haven't
asked about the hostages, maybe it'sjew hate, right, you know.
(20:41):
So I don't know, Like nowI'm starting maybe they've like heard that enough
that yeah, enough people are gettingeducated. They have to rebrand. Now
they have to rebrand. Listen,they are the There's nothing that they're not
doing that's not branding. There's somuch branding, and some of it's so
embarrassing anyway and really just cringey.There's a group called Jew Belonged. I
(21:07):
don't know, just generally they havethese billboards that are terrible. But anyway,
I digress. I did say Iwanted to be part of the solution,
not part of the problem. Ithink just you know, challenge yourself
to do the research. I guess, ask for resources. I think,
(21:30):
I just I think it's so importantto hear from Palestinian people, to read
pasting authors, to follow Palestinian journalistsand voices. If you don't have Palestinian
friends, write me right you,they're my handles there. I think that's
important is just to like, it'snot so complicated, you know, finding
(21:53):
a solution. It's going to taketime because there's so much distressed and so
much division, and so in theextreme, most extreme people are in power,
and there's a lot of interests aroundweapons that make a lot of money,
resources, and you know, sothere's a lot of that's what's complicated.
But what's not complicated is Palatine cannotcontinue to exist under an occupation,
(22:19):
under an apartheid regime, and certainlynot under this kind of bombardment right right
now, I think it's try toget a cease fire, just to join
a protest. They're honestly a veryvery healing, wonderful experience. If you
see anyone being shitty, shut itdown, report them whatever, raise your
(22:41):
voice, call your reps. Imean, a lot of us, like
in New York. You know,I'm in like a very blue place.
A lot of times me writing orcalling about abortion. It's not going to
change. It doesn't change so much. But on Israel, yeah, absolutely,
you know, I think get justkeep pounding them and I don't know,
(23:03):
Yeah, that's I guess my advice. No, I love that,
and I agree with you, andI mean, yes, crack open a
book, you know, open yourinternet articles, Yeah, yeah, search,
We don't you don't even have togo that, you don't even have
to go to the library. Butit's it's amazing how reading and opening yourself
up to somebody else's perspective can reallydo something. And I find I'm you
know, I kind of have thatlike beech Armer mentality to something. Don't
(23:26):
get me wrong, you know,I am definitely a type of person don't
start now and won't be none right. Like I mean, even when it
comes to this conversation around Palestine,people often forget. There's an amazing documentary
out there. Michael Ware produced it. It's called Only Only the Dead but
the completion of that is Only theDead See the End of War. And
it was an incredible documentary about Iraqbag Dad. What it looked like before,
(23:48):
what it looked like during. Youknow, you got military personnel coming
up to a business owner saying,shut down your store. Now we think
there's someone here. You don't havea right to provide for your family.
We don't care, and if youdon't do it, we're gonna make you
very uncomfortable, right because then you'resuddenly in hot water. And I mean,
I think about the American or ourwesternized world ideology. Let somebody show
(24:11):
up on my doorstep and tell meget out no, right, like I
think that it breaks. So youmean any of the stand your ground,
where's my gun? Where's my gun? I don't understand how people can suddenly,
in the case of another person,feel that that's okay. And you
(24:33):
know, in in that like II genuinely I consider myself a beech armor
in the good sense that my firstreaction to conflict is how can we de
escalate? How can we remind eachother that one none of this really matters.
If you die tomorrow, then we'reall losing for it, you know,
like we there's so much more thanthis moment that we're experiencing. We
(24:56):
maybe you're angry, maybe you're frustrated, all those emotions are valid, but
at the end of the day,we should still see each other, keep
a mental acuity that you're still aperson, you matter, and I might
be feeling something right now, butthat's just my feelings. That's not the
situation. And you know, whenI see people get started, you know,
(25:17):
in fact, we were at afootball game, and yeah, a
shocker that at a football game.Some people got a little rowdy, but
we kind of there was a son, there was a man with his son.
This is that. Then. I'mactually gonna tell this really because it
was the Giants Raiders game, andI don't know what happened, but the
guy with his son, this guyjust starts getting really aggressive. Now,
the people I'm with, we're like, listen, we're all parents. We
(25:40):
see this seven eight year old boywatching his dad get verbally assaulted. We
all step in. We pull himback. I'm whispering in his ear,
calm down, it's not you know, this is not worth it. I
you know, take a deep breath. And honestly, when I see things
happen, that's my initial instinct becauseI want to make it better. I
want people to see past the moment. And I think when you bring up
(26:03):
the protests when you go out andyou I mean, I'm not gonna lie
just I see the conflicts and Iwant to go stand next to one of
the people holding an Israeli flag andI want to go bring the Palestinian flag
right next to it. I wantto put my arm around them, and
I want to say, we don'thave to feel like this. Aren't we
better together than apart? You know? And I feel that with that there
(26:27):
could be so much more healing,But instead there's there's there's a lot of
a lot of criticalness. What hasthe protest experience been than me? I'm
like, escalate, escalate, andI'm gonna what you know. I mean,
I'm very argumentative, but this islike the law background. I mean,
one of the things we talked about, like very early was about inter
(26:51):
interracial dating. And I remember thatbeing like one of my early arguments when
my parents, I don't know whateverage I was starting to maybe date and
they started saying, you know,I should date somebody Jewish and I was
like, okay, what about AnythiopianJew? And I was like they were
like, uh, you know,and I got it from the protests.
(27:12):
You know, it's it's always everyexperience I've had it just because there's you
you feel so desperate, like you'renot doing anything but sort of being online
or doom scrolling, panicking it's happened, you know. There was obviously the
Black Lives Matter movement, like proteststhat summer in twenty twenty, and prior
to that, I mean, theWomen's March. It does make you feel
(27:34):
at least if it's there are acouple of things that it's connecting with other
people, feeling like you're not alonein this. It makes you feel less
crazy. It makes you feel likeyou're participating in something. It's a good
way to sort of organize and meetother like minded people. It's you get
your steps in, you know,fresh air, get and I think you
(27:59):
know, with respect to in thisparticular case, when I early on I
went to a Jewish rally that wasin a Grand Army plaza and then kind
of went to truck Schumer's apartment.The videos and pictures I posted of at
like, I had such an overwhelmingamount of messages from Palestinians, from people
(28:22):
in the air world just like sayingit was bringing them to tears. Like
it's just it's so meaningful in thisparticular case for people there to see that
despite what the government is doing,despite the dehumanization that people around the world,
people in New York Jewish people areare standing up and saying that what's
(28:45):
happening is unacceptable, that they're humanbeings and that every life matters. And
I had no idea, like Iknow what it meant for me. I
knew like it was important to do, but I didn't realize what those images,
how life affirming it would be forpeople in Palestine, especially that feel
(29:07):
like nobody cares, that feel thatthey're dispensable. You know. I've been
in that in two thousand and sixwith my own husband at the time.
Now he's my ex husband. Soit's funny because I always tell him like,
I'm not as big as a fan, but in that moment we're forever
tied, and that experience will forevertie. Is because of course, as
a wife, I didn't want myhusband to get killed, you know,
And even in the conversations today,I let people know, Listen, I've
(29:32):
never ran from a hamas missile.I've never ran from an ise dismissal,
I've never ran from a husband andmissile but my family has run from Israeli
missiles unfortunately, and had to sitthere and wonder if tonight was going to
be the night it's it to feelthe world. And even at that time,
I had to get on, youknow, I had to, I
(29:52):
had to angle myself. Thankfully Ihad enough media knowledge to know that the
reason I could get the media topay attention to me was because I said,
but I'm an American family with childand my husband. You know,
he was Palestinian, but at thatpoint he'd already gained American citizenship on his
own before he married me. Iknow, he did not marry me for
citizenship. He was American before Imet him. But that's to feel like
because we're Muslim or because we're Arab, suddenly it's okay, no big deal.
(30:18):
And so right now I think you'reso right the way that we're humanizing
one another and standing up for another. And it's critical because you do have
too many governments saying well, ourinterests are what's most important right now.
And mind you, I'm so gladthat that's actually like what fourteen we're the
one who's fourteen countries including the USand the UK that voted against the ceasefire
and the UN vote. I mean, it was It's nice to know that
(30:41):
over one hundred, you know,countries said no, this is wrong.
But we still have a long wayto go, because, as we keep
saying, and I want to remindeveryone, if if the ceasefire ends today,
there's this is only the beginning.I'll just keep saying it. There's
lives that have been destroyed. AndI feel that as much effort is going
to support the Jewish community or theIsraeli communities, should equally be going to
(31:06):
Palestinians. Is it most important toyou right now to kind of dispel a
lot of what we see, whichis like these talking points about Zionism and
the state of Israel and Palestinians aren'tnative, Like what are what right now?
Are some of the most important mythsfor you to dispel as a person
that's part of this community with youreducation, knowledge and experience, I mean,
you know, I started with sortof the classic talking points that you
(31:26):
see a lot from Zionists and sortof open up my DMS to say,
like, if anybody needs any help, I sort of I tried to focus
a lot on international law because that'smy background. Despite the fact that like
I mean, I kid you not. This guy came in into the comments
and was like, well, that'sso nice that you just like, oh,
like what a cool term ethnic cleansinglike that you just the social justice
(31:49):
warriors just came up with this woketerm like for this conflict. I'm like,
what are you talking about? Likejust absolute like it's like, no,
this is like a woke turn.There's been in terms of like Islam,
Islamophobia, anti Semitism, these incidentshere, there's a lot of people
that like jump on it. There'sthese certainly on the Jewish side, there's
(32:12):
a lot of organizations that solely workon basically blowing up anti Semitism on campus
as like the greatest threat that exists, and they will spread misinformation before having
like a police report or you know. And so I'm just trying to like
hopefully this will help like dial downsome of the panic and fear and extremism
(32:37):
online. But yes, focusing onarguments basically like now this thing that I
just don't understand of like if youask for a seascar that that's somehow Jewish
hate that if you're asking for aseas far you don't care about the hostages,
Like, I don't like these ideasthat I see repeated and I know
other people do that don't make senseto me. I try to Like,
That's what I kind of have beenfocusing on in aside from the fact that
(33:00):
you're this you know, amazing comedianwith this very intriguing background, the fact
that you were a Uman criminal lawattorney. And I went to law school
too also when I was younger becauseI thought I was really good at arguing.
That's like so many people I knowgo to because I'm really really good
at debating, and I felt likeI needed to be an attorney. But
you know that how this there ishuman war crimes at large. Here,
(33:22):
there is violations of international law,and traditionally, as we saw with the
Holocaust, those people were held responsible. Now we're not seeing that. How
when you put on your you andyou know, law crimes attorney had what
what are the things that people reallycannot deny whether they want to or not,
Really what's the facts here? Yeah? So I think that most people
(33:44):
that are genocide scholars that work inthis area that are anyways able to speak
freely. Sometimes in the legal worldyou can't because it's like sort of prejudice,
is like maybe potential case or something. But people who are academics,
who are experts in genocide, mostof you and agencies have either said that
(34:05):
there's a genocide happening in Gaza.There's sort of different terms. But I
for me from you know, everythingthat I've seen, the case for genocide
has been quite clearly made out.When Israel talks about it's right to self
defense, technically that isn't true becauseit isn't occupying power in Gaza, not
(34:30):
in the sense of the occupation likethe West Bank. For the purposes of
international law, it exercises effective controlof the territory, which qualifies it as
an occupying power, meaning it doesn'thave a right to self defense. But
that kind of talk about right toself defense is like the area of international
law that deals with it's a Latinterm juice ad bellum, the the legality
(34:52):
of the aggression of doing what you'redoing, versus juice in bello, which
is the laws that apply once thisis happening, and so putting aside the
self defense Israel's right to respond,how is it responding? Is it respecting
the laws of war? Absolutely notalso Hamas did not respect the rules of
(35:16):
war in the way that it attackedIsraeli civilians, elderly people, women,
children, civilians in general, andtook hostages. That those are also war
crimes. And I also got tosay, of course an an audience,
I'm not saying Hamas is right inany way, shape or form, but
(35:38):
resistance is born of these type ofoccupations, right. And I think a
lot of people don't know history onthe Jewish side. You know, people
have this perception that during the Holocaust, while all the Jews just walked into
the chambers innocently and took what happenedto them. But in fact, you
know, and people can google this, there were Jewish resistance groups that tried
(35:58):
to stop what was happening to them. And they at times, and rightly
so, felt vindicated to exert violencebecause there was an oppression. There was
a you know, a dismissal oftheir human rights and their life and the
way that the language was often used, you know, they were called human
animals. There was the way thatthey were you know, they're the problem,
(36:22):
that's what you know, the Germanthe third right and Nazis, Yeah,
humanization exactly, and so when wesee that happening from the Israeli leadership,
it's very very concerning and to me, you know, I hear,
I'm curious about your thought on thisbecause a lot of times people are like,
well, there's all these Arab countriesaround, why don't they just get
(36:43):
involved? And I mean, look, I do feel to some extent,
while people can say they just don'twant to be involved or that, you
know, people will two things.People have said, oh, nobody,
none of the Arabs are supporting Palestine. Wrong. We I know, my
family, I know, we haveconstantly sent humanitarian aid, We've donated to
organizations that go in there and help. But also, nobody wants to mess
with America. Nobody. We allknow what the big brother is behind,
(37:08):
you know, is the state ofIsrael. I think that people forget that.
Knowing so knowing that if let's justhypothetically Lebanon and Syria and Jordan,
I'll get up, they get theirmilitary and say we're going to war.
What do you think would be theoutcome of that? And is it not
right that they're a bit trepidacious instarting that type of offense? Yeah?
(37:31):
So, I I mean in termsof the Arab countries. I think that
they for a very long time haveneglected two on the diplomatic front, financial
front, there's a lot of especiallyin recent years, a Gulf countries have
a lot of wealth and rather thanmake these side agreements with Jared Kushner and
like completely exclude the Palestinians, leavethem behind, like they have been pretty
(37:55):
shitty in that way. Like agree, there's a lot that diplomatically the Arab
tries could do to put their weightbehind the Palestinian cause, and especially the
ones that have a lot of money. Right, militarily, I agree with
you one hundred percent. I mean, Israel is a nuclear power. Uh
it never said it before, butone of its ministers was like, I
(38:15):
think we could mention dropping an atomicbomb, and everyone was like, well,
I guess there's the admission of nuclearrefords, although it was pretty obvious
and obviously it has the US inits back pockets. So no, I
don't think there's anything they can domilitarily. But the argument behind this idea
of like where why don't the Arabcountries do more? What's behind that is
(38:37):
why don't they just take the Palestinians? Right? And certainly they've taken a
lot of Palestinians. But what thatdoes is it's it's essentially you know,
like, why don't they help uswith our ethnic cletonsing right, like and
and it's and it's not. Andon top of that, what it does,
which is what Zionists do so much, is a raised Palestinian people as
(39:00):
a people, because what you're sayingis, but you're all Arabs. What's
the difference? Right? So yeah, so I think that you know,
part of you know, you've probablyseen this, like these graphics or these
means where it's like book, theseare all the Arabs have all this land,
and oh, we're just the Jews. We just want this little piece.
Why can't we just have this littlepiece? You'll we're colonized, we
just have a little piece. Whycan't we have that little piece? Why
(39:22):
does everyone hit it? You knowso much? And we do get the
Holocaust and like and like that.Basically it's like but look at the it's
like you're you're putting all Arabs asone group of people, which is just
more erasure and left me like,if anyone has proven how important it is
for them to be their culture,their nation on a piece of land.
(39:43):
I mean it's the Palestinian people,right, you think we the Jewish people,
we will flee like we will flee, And I don't think that's bad.
That's just who we are, ourhistory and that's what we've been,
you know. And we're not necessarilytied, although like we've some people are
tied religiously and they to this pieceof line now, right, But for
many years it wasn't the case.So you know, people are just there
(40:05):
like, well we we we leftand we packed up and we started new.
Why don't these people, you know, right, they still wreckuge like
they don't get it. No,you're absolute larning because also I distinguish the
difference. I do distinguish the differencebetween the governments and the like the Royal
Saudis and you know that they're drivingaround in their Bentley's and meanwhile, let
everyone else suffer, it doesn't matter. So I agree with you there.
But I mean there are people whocare and have tried to but with their
(40:27):
limited resources. Right, and Eric, sorry, the Emirates are building a
hospital in Gaza right now, Ithink, and Jordan dropped food in right,
right, and Saudi will have tobe put the build rebuilding for I
hope they will. Yeah, listen, we so appreciate your time, your
voice, your effort. I knowthat there's so much we could have covered.
But you know, in the meantime, you know, where can people
(40:51):
go with you know, your websiteor how do you want them to support
you for our listening audience as well? Well? For me, I think,
yeah, just follow me online.I'm on Twitter, threads, Instagram,
TikTok, Facebook, It's mostly it'sjust underscore Solomon and I have like
a link tree there you can signup to like a mailing list and watch
(41:13):
some I have some content there andshow dates and I just want to say,
uh, there's a group. CanI shout out yes? Okay,
so there's there's Because of this,I think what's so important is Healestenians and
Jews or you know people interfaith Arabs, Jews, Muslims like getting it being
working together at a grassroots level.This, I think is where it's like.
(41:36):
Without this separation is is just leadsto athering and allows dehumanization to take
hold. So there's one group inIsrael that I have recently been following,
and they're called at Standing Dot TogetherDot Movement and it's Arabs and Arab Israelis
and Jewish Israelis who are working tobridge the gap between people's and working towards
(42:01):
peace. There amazing and over here, I just shout out to this.
I really love this website. It'sa lefty Jewish and eciten this website called
Jewish Currents, so I would checkthat out. I appreciate that. Thank
you so much for your time,your energy, your voice. I look
forward to continuing following your work andeverybody stay connected. Thank you so much.
(42:22):
Jess, We'll talk to you.Was such a pleasure. Thank you
into everyone else at home. Thankyou. I I you know it's it's
a lot, but it's necessary.If and I'm just going to close with
this, if your version of heavenrequires someone else to experience hell, then
you're an oppressor, simple and plain. I don't sit on any moral high
(42:46):
ground as I am a multicultural Americanand with that its own dark history of
not really respecting other people's humans rights. But I have a choice to make
a difference, and I make thatnow every single day, and as a
person who happens to have a partGerman background. In addition to all the
ones that I have. I studiedWorld War Two quite intensely, and I
(43:07):
was you know, as I've sharedbefore, I was mystified by the amount
of people that could blindly follow itand allow it to happen. And of
course, years later, when theworld's eyes were opened to their great misfortune,
that we all agreed it wasn't okay. So I'm asking you what makes
(43:28):
you think it's okay? Now?The truth is it's not. And together
we must continue to stand up,we must continue to raise our voices,
and we must continue to fight forthe liberation of all, including the Palestinians.
Thank you so much, We'll seeyou next time, and of course,
thank you for letting us be unsugarcoated. Take care
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