Down South Anomalies #48 Roger Stankovic: MUFON Update

MUFON Director for Australia and New Zealand Roger Stankovic joins Jay and Aspasia in an attempt to unravel the barrage of recent incidents in the mainstream press pertaining to the field of Ufology. New cases are discussed including an investigation into the anomalous nature of Havana Syndrome. Roger is a Neuroscientist who's skills in this regard come into play during his investigation.

Episode Transcript

(00:56):
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now. Well. Hello, Welcometo episode of forty eight. What did

(01:49):
you say before? We're getting sogood at it, stuffed uff, No
you can, You're fine. Welcometo episode forty south anomalis for the incredible
Untold Radio Network. We are broadcastingas usual. We are recording on stolen
Land. Ladies and gentlemen, weall need to say yes in this country

(02:09):
and we need to acknowledge the Gatigalpeople of the ordination and show our respect
to Elder's past, present and emerging. Now we have an incredible guest tonight
back for the second time. Butit's really important to the second or third.
No, it's the second time.Really yes, Roger Stankar bitch and

(02:31):
the Roger is the Australian director andNew Zealand director will move on. That's
right, We've called it the moveon Update, but really it's us quizzing
where we're he can put his moveon, had on, he can take
his move on. Well, I'mgoing to bring him in now because and
there he is now. Roger originallystarted investigating decades ago. He has over

(02:57):
two hundred cases up his sleeve thatis investigated personally. Is an incredible field
research who has written some extraordinary pacepapers on some remarkable cases. He first
started I think it was involved withappro right at the beginning, but it
was two thousand and fifteen he cameon board as a director. Well,

(03:22):
we should be dating ourselves. Aturned sixty five the other day, so
I'm definitely dating totally data. You'reout of date. I wake up every
day and I don't care what I'mfeeling like I go. I'm still breathing.
It's remarkable, it is remarkable,but you interrupted me. Two thousand
and fifteen he became the Australian directorfor Australia and New Zealand. I mean,

(03:44):
have move on and here's a newerscientist by trade. Just maybe tell
us initially a little bit about thatmeans, yeah, what it means?
Yeah, thanks Joane and that's sobasically I did a batchlops science degree initially
when I started university studies at theUniversity of Sydney, and then I got

(04:08):
a job immediately after I graduated,but then I went back to work at
the University of Sitting At that gaveme an opportunity to do a PhD in
neuroscience. I got employed in theNeuropathology Department and Blackburn Building at Sydney University,
and that enabled me to then utilizethe resources that were there at the

(04:30):
time because we had human tissue,brain tissue and spinal cort tissue. And
also it enabled us because we're atbased at the university, we had the
facilities for research as well because wehad an animal house where we could actually
import mice and work on mouse modelsfor modeling various human diseases. And what

(04:57):
I did, I imported some micefrom the universe, sorry from the United
States of America Jackson Laboratories, andI tried to model a disease called mode
and neurin disease in mice. Andso what I did, I we got
a couple of genes knocked out inthis mouse model and then we exposed them

(05:18):
to mercury vapor with the hypothesis thatdental amalgam, which was made of various
metals but mainly mercury, was acomponent and every time you chew, there's
a bit of mercury vapor that's releasedthat you inhale, and that mercury vapor
ends up in your modeurance and yourspinal cord, and that could cause the

(05:40):
disease. So that's what I Yeah, and I did find some interesting aspects
to the research in terms of effectsto the nervous system, but it didn't
actually explain why people Actually they stilldon't really know why people. Ninety percent
of people get in your own diseasethat's not hasn't got a genetic component to

(06:04):
it, right, so it's somesort of some outside you know, yeah,
there's there's not an environmental thing that'senvironmental. Yeah, right. But
my uncle actually died in the middleof my PhD of in our disease.
It's really weird. There was mymother's brother and he was a market gardener,

(06:26):
so he worked My parents had afarm and Sydney's South West and he
was sort of like not quite aneighboring property, but we dealt with pesticides,
and you know, we re marketgardeners, so we used all these
chemicals. And we're not sure hemight have had some predisposition genetically to the

(06:47):
disease and dealing with the chemicals mighthave just triggered off the disease in him.
But it was just such a coincidencethat he ended up with your own
disease while I was like in themiddle of doing my thesis on the actual
disease. Really weird. Is therea certain age that that disease consistently present?

(07:11):
It's it's not common in people I'mthat are younger. That usually hits
you when you're in your fifties,sixties or seventies. So it's it's it's
an aging sort of disease, abit like dementia where you know you'll kick
in, although you do get Imean, there's there's recorded instances of people
in their thirties and twenties actually gettingmade of neuron disease. And how does

(07:33):
it affront people? Sorry, Soit actually it knocks off your mode and
neurones. So your mode of neuronsare actually the neurons that the nerve cells
that actually connect to your skeletal muscle. So when you're moving, that's all
mode in your own function. Soif those nerve cells that connect to your

(07:55):
muscle that make you to help youmove dying and you're only born with a
certain number, then that affects movementin your in your body, including your
diaphragm, and that's where it cankill you. No more breathing, No
more breathing when you're sleeping, becausethere's a there's two components as an autonomic

(08:18):
component and a a motor component tothe diaphragm. So when we sleep,
we're not conscious of the automatic kicks. So the automatic nervous system kicks in.
If that's affected, well, thenit's the phrenic nerve that's actually affected

(08:39):
that innovates the diaphragm. So sobasically when that kicks in, you can
easily die if you're not persisted withyour respiration. Is it as slow as
it's similar to Alzheimer's dementia, anddoes it take a long time to present
itself. So my my uncle,I think, survived for five or four

(09:01):
more nearly five years since on set. So once you know, like I
think he said, he he helda hammer and tried to hammer and nail
and he felt like it was hishands were quite weak and he couldn't hold
a hammer strong enough. But thatsince that first and he didn't go and
see a doctor initially, but lateron he thought there's something wrong because you

(09:24):
know, the symptoms got quite abit worse. And then I think it's
it's usually about three to five yearsfrom from the very first one symptoms to
to death. Whereas some dementias cango on for years and years. It's
not. And did you find atthe end of your your studies there that

(09:45):
the amalgam fillings were they do youthink they're partially responsible? They're a treat
equickly as well? That could belike beens for you it has mercury in
your mouth is not good, okay, But I mean the dner stone included
these days. And my supervisor whocame up with that idea and I did

(10:07):
the experiments, he was boot bootabout it by the neurologists. They didn't
believe it was had anything to dowith mate and neuron disease, but I
believe it. My research showed thatthere are effects on the axons of these
made of neurons that are affected becausewe looked at neurofilaments and microtubules, and
we saw a decrease in density ofthem and the nerves and the nerve axons.

(10:31):
So basically, it might affect someonethat's already got a genetic predisposition,
like there might be some polymorphism orsome sort of genetic defect where that person,
if exposed to a heavy metal mightdevelop made of neuransease. That's fascinating,
and one day I hope that paperis seen for the powerful document that

(10:56):
it is in that research, becauseyou know, it's amazing how ubiquitous those
filings were, especially you know,I'm sixty five, that baby Boom gemorration.
We have tens of feelings, reallylarge amounts of mercury in your mouth.

(11:16):
Go on, sorry, sorry,that mercury is still in your mode
on neurons it and doesn't disappear.It's still There's from from the time you've
got those feelings till the time youdie. Well, just another thing to
look forward to. I'm sorry tobe laughing about that, but you have
to take light of these dramatic situations. Who came up with that, Who

(11:37):
thought that was a good idea touse mercury as a filling in your mouth
when I know we're always told fromvery young, don't ever touch the mercury
in that the mometer. I usedto play with it in my hands.
You know, I've used to literallybreak thermometers and roll it in my hands.
I didn't realize how dangerous that,but it were fascinated me. A

(12:01):
liquid metal at grim temperatures, fascinating. I have a story about my favorite
uncle who was a bohemian right andrefused to actually live an ordinary life.
He had mental health issues nobody addressedanyway. He wouldn't get out of bed
to like three in the afternoon.He dug a huge hole in the backyard

(12:22):
to wipe out incandescent light so hecould look at the stars clearly in a
pit. Late at night, hewould go shopping when none of the shops
were opened. No mental health issuesthere At what his death bed, this
is no kid, and I saidthis to us. But when we first
got together thirty three years ago,the last statement to his sister. He

(12:45):
used to wake him up with thebroom if he wasn't out of bed by
three in the afternoon, smashing onthe bottom of the floor where his bed
was a floor above. The lastwords were of. For God's sake,
go to the garage. I've leftthe lid off there of mercury. That
was his last. It's actually soldme on marrying into the family. It

(13:07):
did, It did anyway. Anyway, what I'm curious about is as a
neuroe scientists, there's incredible qualifications.Have you been able to win your field
research as the uphologist take that scienceinto the field, Yeah, I have.
And I'm sort of like doing somethingright now. I'm called I'm studying

(13:28):
a can't call it a disease,but an incident, a neurological incident that's
happening in the States called Havana syndrome. So I'm absolutely fascinated by it because
there's no real known cause as towhat is actually going on, and I'm
trying to somehow related well, I'mnot trying to, but I'm I have

(13:52):
a feeling from what I've researched thatand I a non human intelli could be
behind it. Being reason being isthat because the actor is extremely intelligent.
In other words, what's causing thisis something with superior intelligence because it can

(14:16):
actually affect the human brain and initiatewhat's called an immaculate concussion. In other
words, there's some sort of radiation, whether it be microwave or ultrasound,
that can target an individual of aparticular occupation and at a particular place and

(14:41):
actually cause neurological damage. So howcan that be that? You know,
how could you possibly? I don'tthink we have the intelligence to do this,
but there is something out there that'scausing so much trauma to a lot
of people in that are in theintelligence community, and that are ambassadors of

(15:09):
the United States and Canada. Butit's only the United States and Canada,
which is really interesting, funny.Sorry, go on, No, you're
right. Sorry, I just wantedto finish the sentence. So basically,
it's it's is it a coincidence thatthis broke out when the videos from that

(15:30):
were leaked, not leaked, butthey were declassified from the Pentagon about the
you know, the nimits, thegin Bull and the go Fast videos coincide
with this occurrence of Havana syndrome inthe States and will first happened in Cuba,
obviously because it's called havana syndrome.Sorry, sorry, Joe, what

(15:52):
were you trying to say that thatis really interesting? You're not speaking specifically
about pilots of these fateen craft showingsigns of Havanas syndrome. Are you no,
No, it's not the pilots,it's it's basically people that are ambassador

(16:12):
to say, the first two peoplethat were affected were they were in the
embassy in Cuba. Weren't they therein the embassy in Cuba? Yes?
In what year? What year wasthat? That was two sixteen, so
just six yeah, just recently.And people are some some of the neurals

(16:33):
saying, oh, well, youknow, psychogenic basically somebody hears some somebody
having some sort of illness, theyhear a sound, and then they develop
it because it's it's something that youknow, like it's a psychogenic thing.
But the problem with that theory isthat some people were actually affected without the
government alert coming out, so theyactually developed this syndrome prior to any knowledge

(16:59):
of anyone else getting it, Sothat completely discounts that theory. And also
foreign adversaries are categorically excluded from thisbecause the United States that it's been studied
by various institutions, for example Jason, which is a scientific organization which which

(17:25):
if they have a problem, ifthey can't work out what is causing something
in terms of matter like like thisthan a syndrome. They'll send in the
Jason team and they apparently they're agroup of thirty to sixty elite scientists that
will actually look at a problem thatno one else can actually work out.
So Jason actually said that basically,it's it's something, you know, it's

(17:51):
an actor which with superior intelligence thatis deceived, its deceitful, and it's
actions because basically what they're saying isthat people were hearing cricket sounds initially and
because they were stressed and heard thesecricket sounds which were, you know,
like a hundred decibels, and itwas due to the Indies cricket, which

(18:14):
was native to Cuba and the WestIndies were causing people to have these problems
that when they heard these sounds theydeveloped nausea, headaches, vertigo and all
these symptoms. But is the actoractually using a cricket sound to actually instigate

(18:41):
the damage and thereby circumventing the factthat it's you know, it's you know,
trying to covertly instigate this damage intoyou know, the victims. This
is so fascinating, It is absolutely. Initially these stories actually run back much

(19:03):
earlier than two sixteen, and myfather was actually he was a short wave
operator and then in the early seventieshe was speaking to me about the Woodpeckers
signal. I mean a lot ofpeople and the news stories I've read are
roger primarily about this being maybe apiece of electro magnetic warfare infrasound more like

(19:26):
infra sound that's targeted directly at people. But I take it from a neurological
perspective, it's it's much more complexthan that. I think so because I
just think like thee that I thinkthe CIA has done a study, Jason
did a study, and who elsedid the study? There was the Jason

(19:49):
group. Sounds intriguing, don't theydo? It? Is they like this
radical think tank that goes into theradical think tank exactly exactly, and they're
a group of extremely elite scientists thatcan work on as a crack team on
a problem that no one else cannut out and they were perplexed by it.

(20:12):
But they categorically excluded a foreign adversary. So I'm sort like trying to
think of you know, like,I mean, he could who has the
intelligence to do this. But thetechnology you see now that there's technology even
in the public domain with sonic weaponsthat can actually be used for crowd control.

(20:36):
But I take it there is muchmore targeting in a new or advanced
Yeah, and I think that sorryyou could no, I'm very fascinated by
this notion. Can you explain tous what you mean by the term actor
when you when you're talking about this, I want to use the term actor

(20:56):
means that the thing or the andthat's actually doing the right Yeah. Yeah,
I mean my father was talking aboutthe woodpecker signal and he would go
into the sidebands there in the shortwave frequencies and point to this this frequency
that was coming out of Russia andthat it sounded like a woodpecker when you

(21:18):
got it up on an oscillator andgave it some audio sound. And that
was way back in the seventies.And when the initial rumors before the term
Havana syndrome was spoken about, hewas saying, oh, well, this
is definitely electromagnetic weapons. And Ido believe with certain researchers out there,

(21:40):
and you know, we can questiontheir credulity. But one of the most
interesting tales comes from the Life ofMay Brussell. I don't know if you
know of her, but she wasone of the people used extensively by Jim
Garrison for her extraordinary research over thousandsof newspapers and magazines, referenced every probably

(22:02):
the greatest cross reference. Frank Zappabrought a computer early in the seventies and
which she threw it in the bid. She was miss analog, but she
was fascinating. But she people purportto her death because she crossed over so
many lines of COVID intelligence. Theysay that she was a victim of some

(22:22):
form of microwave microwave assault that occurredon her, but who knows. Who
knows anyway, but I think thatsounds incredible. Is any of that material
in the public domain? Can peoplelook at it? The stats, the
Jammer articles online, the General theAmerican Medical Association, and also there's an

(22:48):
od and I at which publication whichI'm looking at. And I'm part now
of an American group called the UAPMedical Coalition, so I just joined,
and we're looking at effects of UAPson humans in terms of psychological stresses and
also any physical effects from a closeencounter. And we're looking at not only

(23:14):
researching it, but also I'm gettingthese people some help in terms of,
you know, finding medical professionals thatwon't that that will with an open mind,
that will look upon this and takingthe whole story rather than just say,
oh, you know it's rubbish.You know you you know that you

(23:36):
got burnt by UFO, you know, things like that. So we're trying
to destigmatize it for medical professionals,and there are medical professionals within this group
as well. I'm excited about that, you know, I'm just in our
uncredential proletarian way. Asper and Idecades ago brought our sort of background in

(23:59):
the medical cool world to bear andwe tried to get created invisible college with
psychologists and doctors that were open mindedenough to realize that these experiences could have
a possibility in three dimensional reality andthey would would go in. And we've
We've had a therapist I've dealt withfor decades there, Alexanomia, who's run

(24:21):
a clinical practice and had many peoplein that practice that we're experiencing psychological post
traumatic stress, post traumatic stress disorder, and all sorts of meriads of experiences
that he could only put down tosome anomalous event. But it's very difficult
to get those professionals out into thepublic domain because we still are dealing with

(24:47):
so much critical and lack of credibilityaround that. So is there anywhere people
can go now in terms of thatwork you're doing it? Maybe just tell
us the title of that group againas well. I think it's Medical Coalition,
so you can you can find themon Twitter and if you just search

(25:08):
for them, they've got a websiteand excuse me, they're interested in anyone
joining. You don't have to bepart of the medical profession. You can
be of any you know, youcan have any sort of profession, but
you can contact them and join,and they're seeking anyone with any sort of

(25:32):
skills that can help out. Iwas the first. I think I was
the first to have been contacted inAustralia. I think Grant la back from
Queen Queensland might have been contacted beforeme. But so, and they're they're
trying to get me to recruit morepeople as well who can well, you

(25:53):
know what, I think we mightboth consider that because the more people that
are working together towards instructive way,you know, there's more likelihood of being
able to come up with some sortof motivation. Roger like yourself as not
so much being trying, you know, you know, we delusion enough to

(26:15):
think that we're going to expose thetruth here, no, by no means.
But what we did notice in ourbackground is that people were coming to
us with these narratives and they werecertainly suffering. And one of the greatest
ways was to be able to letthem have a sense of catharsis and getting
good therapists will tell you that speakingabout it, writing it down, exploring

(26:37):
it, and the unfortunate thing inour culture is that you can't really explore
it. People have a hard timewith their spouses and their families talking about
these experiences, let alone the broadercommunity. So I think that's highly honorable
work, and I'm really excited tohear that you're on board and we will
really consider it. But at themoment, I think what's happening on a

(27:00):
grand scale is astounding. I havenever lived through a year, and I
never suspected a year like this,and we're not finished yet. So a
neuthology in the mainstream world, it'slike we've been hit with a tsunami of
material and I think the first placeto start because we haven't spoken to you
for quite a few months and youwere a partner in crime with us on

(27:23):
that incredible TV series Close Encounters downUnder, and we're we're going to see
if we can get that second seasonup. But the most we need to
get it up. But the mostastounding thing to me is that here we
have on the world stage this incredibleinterview that an Australian journalist, it's quite

(27:45):
respected, major historian, very honestman comes forward with a whistle blow beyond
the credentials of what we've known beforeon the world stage. So I'd love
to know your opinion and maybe evenwhere move On's perspective is on a whistle
blower. David Groush, Yeah,well where do I start? Just dive

(28:11):
in there wherever he I think he'sa very intelligent guy. Obviously comes through
that he's got this this incredible intelligence, and he's appears to be extremely honest,
and he's got impeccable credentials. Obviously, he is part of the NNGA

(28:32):
and the n R Afghanistan War veteran, he briefed the President of the United
States on a weekly basis of highlyclassified information and was trusted by the military
industrial complex. And basically I believe, in absolutely believe what he's saying is

(28:56):
real. But then people saying,well, he's not firsthand witness, but
how you know, I can't understandwhy, in any way how this could
be some sort of a sciops wherethe forty witnesses that came to him that
were firsthand witnesses, who I believeare actually in the U s APS,

(29:18):
the own acknowledged special access programs.I'm not entirely sure what the forty witnesses
are in this case, but whywhy would forty people come to somebody like
that and divulge information about what theywere involved with just to light to this

(29:38):
person. It just doesn't make sense, you know. I just can't see
how how anyone can dismiss this assome sort of psy ops or or anything.
So I think it's real, youknow. I mean, I've been
looking at it for at some time. Initially, you know, when I

(30:03):
when I located the Timothy Goods bookthat the document about you know, the
Roswald the crash, that's when Iso, like you, I had an
epiphany that, oh my god,you know, a craft actually did crash
on Earth in forty seven and basicallywe do have we do have it and

(30:23):
storage and we have bodies. Sothat was in the eighties, you know,
late late eighties that I had theepiphany that you know, this is
actually real, we have craft andbodies. And since then, you know,
we've had developments like the leaking ofthe the Wilson Davis memo and with

(30:45):
James Rigney made friends with James anddiscussed that quite extensively with him, and
so we had an indication that youknow, this, this phenomenon was real,
and that it's documented and involving youknow, Eric Davies and and Thomas

(31:07):
Wilson, and you know how hetried to break into the program initially in
the early two thousands. And sothere's there's a lot of history behind crash
retrievals that I think the general publicdon't know about. And they might dismiss
that outright because of the fact thatthey haven't got that history behind their belts,

(31:29):
under their belts. Because I supposeif I had not studied US for
decades and somebody came up with thatidea that you know, somebody's you know,
sworn under oath in Congress that they'vethey know that these crash retrievals exist

(31:51):
and we're trying to reverse engineer.It's incredulous to me that without that knowledge,
if somebody said that, you know, I just maybe, yeah,
I might not believe it myself.But I think that with the knowledge that
we have and the background, it'sall seems to fall into place that it

(32:16):
does. Real people need to lookat the research from the past two which
is quite extensive, and lend streamfields status reports dating back to the eighties
and here he I think he wrotehis first book in the late fifties,
a quite astounding and then in theeighties it was difficult for most researchers to

(32:38):
palette. But I mean the entomology. Let's step right back to Jesse Marcel
and mac Brazil and look at theintegrity of both those two witnesses. And
then you have to realize where there'ssmoke, there's fire, and there's something
to this, you know, Asperand I don't hold a hypoth when it

(33:00):
comes to ufology, but I've spentenough time with researchers like Don Schmidt to
realize that there are literally tens tohundreds of eyewitnesses that are basically either firsthand
of secondhand eyewitnesses to Roswell now beingsomething that was nowhere near prosaic. And

(33:20):
when you see all those moments thatare so Shakespearean with the Pentagon around the
anniversary there and in a way too, you know, we've got interesting material
coming into the public's eye. Andthen you get something that's very similar to
what's happening now. You get thisabsurd footage by Race Antilly of the Roswell
autopsy. And the mere fact thatwe're film markbus and we live in a

(33:45):
house of thirty five mills sixty millimeterfilm, we could tell instantly that that
footage was not film footage. Itwas not digitized film footage from nine footage
seven. It was definitely filmed bya CCTE. Yeah, I think I
think he still he admitted to that, and then he said, it actually
isn't real footage, but it wassort of like meant to emulate what actually

(34:08):
the real footage was, which Andyou know what, I could have done
the same thing, right. Wecould have pulled out a bit of footage
here from a New Israel from nineteenforty seven and said take that and it's
too fragile. But you know,we've got some interesting autopsy footage, but
you know, let's let's forget aboutthat. But it's quite interesting how those

(34:30):
templates all of a sudden, realinformation starts to leak forward, and then
all of a sudden, the worldof media starts to collide, and we
don't know whether we've been dealt disinformation, perception management, exploitation. And this
is what I wanted to go backto David Grush very quickly here, and
from a neuroscientists point of view,that story was basically literally dismissed by a

(34:57):
young hipsters journalist with the edgy Interceptonline paper exposing evidently little infarntunes within the
NSA and the CIA and things likethat. And he directly spoke about post
traumatic stress disorder or post traumatic stressin David Brush and one drunken night when
he was feeling suicidal. Now,from a neurological perspective, let me ask

(35:23):
you, I do not see posttraumatic stress as a mental disorder. I
see it as a side effect ofbeing taken out of your everyday reality and
exposed to something that was heavily traumatic. I think that we can acknowledge that
it didn't seem to affect his careerwithin intelligence in the media, and that

(35:46):
anyone who's had a tour of dutyoversees in a battlefield like Iraq would tell
you that, or Afghanistan where Davidwas, will tell you that. You
know, the majority of people comeback with some form post traumatic stress.
Yeah. Absolutely, Do you seeit as mental illness? I don't think

(36:10):
it call falls into that category fromfrom what you've just said, and you've
convinced me that that, uh,yeah, it makes sense from what you've
said that it's it's it's it's aninsult to the nervous system from some exterior

(36:30):
traumatic experience, which is not reallywhat's the word for it, something that
would say, for example, ifyou if you had a disease that originated
from within the nervous system, it'ssomething that's it's like a car accent or
something like that, where you havedamage that is done to the nervous system

(36:52):
by some external impact or whatever.That Yeah, I agree, I agree
absolutely that And I think there wasa live stream there with the incredible it's
John Greenmaal Jr. From the BlackVault, you know, who I think
is in a standing research and verybalanced and certainly has done the four year

(37:13):
researchers through the Freedom of Information Act. That a mind blowing and this boy
has been added at fifteen. Buthe did a live stream with our journalist
Ken Clippenstein, if I'm pronouncing thatname correctly, and at one point there
in that live stream, Ken actuallystated, well, the guy's a side
patient, is a drunk. Whywould you take him seriously? And the

(37:36):
interesting thing at the end of hisintercept story he recanted the Pentagon's debunking of
Roswell. Now what that had todo with David Grush, I've got no
idea. But in my mind,someone who's had one night when they've got
a bit drunk and felt suicidal,who suffered post traumatic disorder, is probably

(38:00):
just a normal way of coping andself medicating. I mean, we've all
had those days. I think there'snot one and I bet you Ken's had
those days himself, but he willhit them. And we can all understand
post traumatic stress, if not thedisorder, from moments we have where we've
seen something that we shouldn't have seen, like a car accident or something like

(38:23):
that. And you know that traumastays with you go back and remember that,
and you start sweating and you getnervous. But let's move on into
what I believe is his story thathas been debunked so ludicrously that the original
story that appears to be so ludicrousmay be real. And that's the aliens

(38:45):
in Peru. Now do you thinkfrom one moment we're seeing illegal minors with
jet packs and state of the artnight vision trying to navigate their way through
the cat the canopy of the remoteAmazon, you know, define gold down
there. Now. I know alot of that illegal claim jumping from Cartel's

(39:08):
occurs, but those stories coming outof Brazil are absolutely fascinating. Brazil,
Peru, Brazil and sorry Peru,Peru. But they go back in that
area and that Amazon canopy decades,don't they. I Mean, that's where
initially there was so much activity inSouth America in the late seventies, and

(39:30):
that's where I excuse me, everyoneam getting it wrong about Brazil, But
it's Peru at the p at themoment. Yeah, So I haven't had
I haven't really looked into that inany great depth. I know it,
I read some reports of it,and I've still like, haven't discounted it.

(39:50):
As as just rubbish. But Ihaven't looked into it, but I
think there was an incident in Brazil. You mentioned Brazil in the eighties where
people were actually attacked, allegedly attackedby UAPs with in chloris, thinking that
was in the late seventies, aboutninety had forty people at least that were

(40:14):
medically injured. One person died inthe other hot attack or something related to
the exactly. So I don't havean opinion on it. I'm sorry,
Jada, don't be sorry in theleast. I was just curious, and
as I said to you before,we are being hit with a tsunami about

(40:35):
this material. But the fascinating thinghere is if I can talk to you
as an asside to that story,The assumption to me is that sometimes,
and especially with dealing cases on ourcontinent of Australia, which has such a
remote epic center. You know,we're all very coastal in our CBDs,

(40:58):
in our build up, but whenyou get to the heart of Australia,
there is lots of likeness remote bland, and I have spoken to many people
in remote Australia. I went outthere for the ABC to do to catch
a flying staff and do you wantto turn that off? Yep, And
we didn't think that was going tohappen tonight, but excuse us, it
did. And I feel sometimes thatthe remoteness is what this phenomena seemed to

(41:28):
seems to exploit at times, andit may be happening like that down in
Peru and Brazil. Do you findthat is a consistency or that's something you've
not come across that there seems tobe more cases in remote areas that become
quite extreme at times. Yeah,I'm well, most of the reports that

(41:52):
we get are in like built upareas, like cities, because you have
more eyes to the to the youknow, in the sky. But but
you have incidences where you might havesort of like an aspect of the phenomenon,
like cattle mutilations which occur in veryremote areas, which is which is

(42:15):
unusual. It's usually a phenomenon thatoccurs where it's a very remote area of
the property where these animals are mutilated, associated with the UAP phenomenon. And
but you do obviously get you know, reports in in the outback, the

(42:39):
minmen, lights and all that sortof stuff. The incident with the we
had we had a report just bringingmoof on now. But we had an
incident recently where there was a ladydriving her camper van from was going to

(43:00):
Charlerville I think, And it wasin March this year where she was in
the it was like in the middleof the day and it wasn't sunny but
a bit of a bit of cloudand she had this and it was extremely
remote area of the highway, notnobody else on the on the freeway and

(43:23):
can you explain where that exactly is? Where we're as Chatterville. So it's
it's it's sort of like central southernQueensland, I think, right, Okay,
yeah, I don't know Queen's Ididn't know the coast, but yeah,
it's like central southern Queensland. Andso she was driving out to Charlerville

(43:44):
and she saw this object on herleft hand side which looked like a green
tear drop shaped object that was comingtowards at a rate or not she thought
it was might have been a plague, a locust, or a flock of
budgery cars or whatever. And thenas it came towards her, it actually
pushed a vehicle to the other sideof the road and she heard this like

(44:05):
a sprinkling of like rice on papersound with a thump thump, and we
she contacted moof On and it wasit was unusual that this object had pushed
her. She thought she was quiteshocked by it and didn't know what happened.
And we did a dust and assison a vehicle and found this alloy

(44:29):
which was anomalous of a eighty percentcopper and twenty percent variam. So we
sent a sample to John Optol inpr A in Victoria and they can't explain
this, this particular alloy that allegedlycame off this this object, so again

(44:49):
in the middle of nowhere, broaddaylight. But another thing that happened is
that which we can't explain, isthat her jury during the impact or not
almost nearly nearly during the impact,her mobile phone made it call for somebody
in Western Australia that was working inthe airport and he received her care but

(45:13):
he was another call and he rangit back after the impact and said you
called me in She said, Shesaid no, I didn't know. She
thought it was a spammer. Buthe says, no, I've got your
number on my phone. So somehowthere was a call that was made from
her telephone call too, so shedidn't know this guy. She didn't know
this guy at all at all.Her child his number, his number,

(45:39):
so she had the phone on thepassenger seat and somehow the impact of the
object had caused a transmission of acall from her phone to this random number
that ended up in Perth. Idon't know whether it's related or not,
but which tried to work out whichReggio towels are pinned off, and also

(46:04):
we contacted Telstra but they're not.The anomalous thing was that the copper barium
on her vehicle, which is extremelyinteresting, and usually it's like a superconductor.
So copper barium is a superconductor,but it's usually found in a powdered
form, but this was in asort of metallic crystalline form. And what

(46:27):
would you use that superconductive for?Excuse me, what would you use it
for? I don't know. That'sinteresting. Did you ever find out any
analysis off the dust that was foundon the Knoll's car. Yeah, John
did look into that, and Iasked him about the Knolls vehicle and he
said there was nothing anomalous on it, unfortunately. Really, Yeah, I

(46:50):
thought at some stage I'd read somethingabout it being carbon dust, but I'd
have to go on through more notes. But I did ask him. I
did ask him. But the thingis that I don't know they did energy
dispersive X ray micro analysis, whichthey had I'm pretty mull sure they had
the facilities in those days, butmaybe I don't know, maybe had something

(47:12):
to do with the technology at thetime. I don't know. But extraordinary
and what an astounding case. Nowwe might just we might just quickly end
off. You've got something else tosay there, I'm sorry, Oh no,
no, that's okay. We're justI'm writing an article for the s
s CU for it, just becauseJohn and his crew did an extremely good

(47:37):
job on this case and a reallygood report, and they did they involve
many different people, scientists with differentdisciplines and looked at the physics of actually,
you know, the force of theobject moving the vehicle to the other
side of the road and all thisstuff. And you know, I asked
them whether I couldn't actually write itthis as as a scientific article to submit

(48:02):
to SU and they agreed with it. So we're just so, when would
we expect to be able to readthat article and explain to us what SU
is. Oh Scientific Coalition for UAPstudies on States and they accept scientific articles
on AP. I made a lookat some of the articles are extremely high,

(48:24):
high caliber articles, which you knowinvolve a lot of physics and mathematics
and chemistry. So yeah, sorry, just quickly on the story. You
think there was an electromagnetic effect involvedin that car being pushed across the road?
It's hard to say, because yeah, I don't really know. We

(48:51):
think that it might have been thewake of the actual object that pushed the
vehicle. That's to whether it wasa pressure wave or whether there was a
tramagnetic effect that actually pushed it.I said to her, said, look,
did your tire screech? And shesaid no, And I says,
well, then your your hands musthave just that. We must have just
slipped out of your hands. Andshe said, yes it did. Because

(49:13):
I couldn't understand how a vehicle couldend up on the other side of the
road when she had her hands onthe steering wheel, because you know,
it would have had to have causedsome screeching of the tires, you know.
So I don't think we've come toany conclusion as to what the actual
force was in terms of the physicsof it. So fascinating, I don't

(49:36):
know, fascinating. Let's go tothis news story just there, Yeah,
and we'll punch it out. Astronomersmay have found possible signs of life on
a planet that is more than eighttimes the size of Earth. They say
it's unlike anything in our solar system. NASA's James Webb telescope discovered it in
the constellation Leo that is one hundredand twenty light years away, and the

(49:58):
telescope may have to did a moleculecalled dimethyl sulfide, exclusively produced by living
organisms right here on Earth. Alsomethane and carbon dioxide, meaning the planet's
atmosphere could be rich in hydrogen andhave a water covered surface. Meanwhile,
late last week, NASA releasing thefindings of its year long study on UFOs

(50:19):
or UAPs, and I asked formerNASA official and member of the NASA UAP
study team Mike Gold about the reportearlier here on Prime and why NASA is
only working with non classified material.Here's part of that interview. It's an
important aspect of the research and thatis happening, but it's not what NASA
does. The reason I'm so excitedto have the agency involved in this is

(50:44):
because NASA is transparent. NASA iscoping, NASA involves the public, NASA
reaches out to international allies. Okay, ohnofness is that transparent? Continued the
truth? But very interesting there Isn'tyou know what if they're telling you they're
transparent, they're not. Isn't itan amazing to me though, Roger?

(51:06):
I mean, now we've you know, the Hubble telescope, Now we've got
the James Webb telescope, now thathe is the director of NASSA that quit
on the day of the moon landing, which tells us something something Really it
was not the right time to quit. No seriously, But and you know
what, these exo planets are gettingcloser with the possibility for life on them.

(51:30):
So I think that's a really interestingstory. But let's go to our
next story and then I'll ask talkof aliens. Of Harvard physicists says he
may have found evidence of alien technology. The US based command says fragments he
found are almost certainly from outsider solarsystem. Chris Well spoke to him about
how we tracked down the pieces andwhether this could be in fact proof of

(51:50):
alien existence. Meteors, pieces ofrock from space find their way through Earth's
atmosphere all the time. This isone that pierced to Home and Titus Film,
New Jersey, just a couple ofmonths ago. But there was something
different about one such fireball from twentyfourteen. What was special about these meteories
that he was moving very fast,faster than any meteor that had ever entered

(52:15):
Earth's atmosphere in the past. Wedecided to go to the site of the
fireball in the Pacific Ocean and thencheck for any remaining materials from it,
sort of like finding a needle ina haystack, like finding a needle in
an ocean. And indeed I wasdoubtful that we will find anything. But

(52:37):
when Harvard physicist Avy Lobe and histeam arrived in the waters off Papua New
Guinea and dragged this sled equipped withspecialized magnets, along the ocean floor,
amazingly we found the materials metallic marblesless than a millimeter in diameter, beautiful
spheres that were colored the blue,brown, or gold. The exact composition

(53:00):
of those spheres are now being studiedat three separate laboratories, including one at
Harvard. They'll also be working todetermine the age of the material, but
US Space Command has already issued aformal letter to NASA stating that with ninety
nine point nine nine nine percent confidence, they believe the materials are interstellar,

(53:22):
meaning they came from outside our solarsystem. The biggest question, Okay,
well, I'm really curious about thisavelobe story, and if I can digress
back, excuse me. I'm actuallyeating a quick case because I had an
amazing salami pizza with chili before this, and it's killing men. Stuff like

(53:45):
that. Excuse you will be sayingat US viewers. Excuse me, but
I'm very You know, Has didRoss has Ross Coulson got in touch with
you as a fellow researcher. Gladto hear that. Yeah, he thought
he came to my house and wehad you here and with James was here

(54:07):
as well, James Rickey and hebut that was prior to to him interviewing
David Grush. Really and did heallude to that story when he was at
your place? I'm just curious.I can't remember. We spoke for about
six hours but I can't remember.I don't know whether we approached that story.

(54:28):
To be honest, I didn't thinkit would. I was just wanting
to see if he's doing his duediligence, and he certainly is, because
if there's any UFO research in thiscountry far from Bill chalk of, this
mean is the one that he needsto get in touch with. So has
RV Low been in touch with you? And what do you think about going

(54:49):
down? I'm a small How didthey do this? How did they realize
that ten years ago that kept pinpointwhere to put in something that looks like
the size of the snow sled anddrag it through the silt and pull these
spheroids up. That's like a needle. That's like trying to find a needle
in a universe. Absolutely, whatextraordinary. It's amazing. Yeah, I

(55:15):
mean I think it's a bit ofluck as well. Obviously they know where
it exploded over the specific and Beguinealike I haven't really been. I've been
following it, but not in anygreat details. You're not previously the information,
you know what, We're lucky tohave our v lobe there are vlobed.

(55:37):
To me is like a James McDonaldor a JL and Heineck. He's
someone who's highly credential, Harvard basedand willing to put his name out there
and pus science further by having justa great enthusiasm and imagine it in perspective
on what could be possible. Idon't see any harm in Harvey lobe wats

(55:59):
so I do see a lot ofthat though, But go on now,
I think it's I think it's greatthat we've got a Harvard scientists looking into
astronomer, looking into this sort ofstuff and and using scientific the scientific method
to actually work out whether you know, like this is definitely extra extra did

(56:23):
you did you actually is that part? I doubt if that's part of your
science. But John Kertel's group couldactually, you know, get in there
and analyze matural as well, couldn'tthey? They could just use the DX
to to look at the different orthe different isotopes of the various metals that

(56:46):
that's composed of, and then determinethe age of it. I supposed by
looking at various aspects of heavy metal. I said to Decay, I'm not
an expert in that field, butif you like that that object was traveling

(57:07):
at a phenomenal speeds coming into oursolar system. So it was definitely extra
solar system object. And when itexploded, it apparently exploded at several Hiroshima
atomic bomb. You know, itwas an extremely large explosion when it hit

(57:28):
a hit a sphere and and thenjust dispersed itself into all these little sperials,
which it's hard to say whether it'sbut I don't know how. I
don't know what the hypothesis is aboutobjects that come into our solar system that
aren't coming off, say, forexample, the the say, for example

(57:57):
a meter up from a different solarsystem, how you discriminate whether that object
is actually just a meteorite, that'sa rock that's actually come from dislodging's or
from that the orbit around a starand ended up in our solar system,
Or could it be some form oftechnology that's been discarded, like our the

(58:22):
probe that we sent out and I'vegot to get the mental link the voyage
the voyageff sorry, whether it couldbe something like that, some technology that
will set down my limited understanding,Roger, And I'm running over you again
there because I think my wife sleep, No, it's not you are doing

(58:46):
so you can get on my boat. So get with it. Yawning is
not falling asleep spectral analysis, youknow, it's then the light on the
spectrum to go. We're dealing withsomething highly unusual we don't see all the
time. And this may have beenwhen we first heard of our belobe in
terms of the world stage, wasto do with Amoamua, which was supposed

(59:08):
to be an interstellar object into oursolar system and also managed to accelerate out
and that was the oddity. Andeven a lot of scientists today are going,
you shouldn't be there in pop orNew Guinea. I feel like a
few of the locals felt that waytoo. Evidently down there there was a

(59:28):
bit of trouble at the time thatthey got through it, but you should
actually have got that money and injectedit into a program where a probe like
the voyager was sent out to geta closer look at Amoor Moon. Evidently
it was highly reflective. But I'mjust going on, so it's gone out
of our solar system? Has it? Certainly has no? I mean I

(59:52):
was Van Hansen. He is thehost of UFA Witness and Discovery. Plus
he's also a UFO researcher and it'salways good to see you for First of
all, what do you make ofthis tweet from Jared moscow Witz where he's
now saying there will be another hearing? Who who do you think we might
see, like what other witnesses couldbe coming forward? Well, first of

(01:00:12):
all, it's great news, Imean, because I felt the last hearing
went real well. Quite honestly,there was a lot of people, a
lot of people that were kind ofwanting that firsthand testimony. They wanted to
see more evidence. You had Arrowdirector Kirkpatrick, who was displeased. He
said that he wasn't coordinated with withthese witnesses, so there were some things

(01:00:34):
that they could have done better perhaps, So in this new hearing, I
think it would really help if wedo get some of those firsthand witnesses and
cut through this red tape. Wegot to get right down to those that
Rush had said he you know,was briefed from, and get into either
classified you know, skiff something,and then some of those firsthand witnesses that

(01:00:57):
are able to come forward who've seenand handled this alleged material. Yeah,
and you know, apparently there werewitnesses that were supposed to testify the first
time, several of them that backedout at the very last minute because they
felt intimidated. So who are thosepeople? And maybe they'll come forward the
second time around a big day yesterdaywith NASA, they had the big press
conference, they released their report.The headline to me at least was that

(01:01:20):
they're now going to have this newposition director of UAP research. Do you
think that's gonna go anywhere? Well, I think they were worried that the
same thing would happen, will happento him, That's happened to Kirkpatrick.
Right as soon as you're putting aspotlight, the jokes start, you know,
some outlets are calling him the alienhunter. They said they were actually

(01:01:44):
getting threats, not just harassment,and so I think it was legit that
they tried to keep him undercover fora while. But he's going to be
the center of attention, and soI do think from what I've seen it,
he does have the qualifications of alreadybeing as on with the Pentagon on.
He's a meteorologist and a good personto have in there to kind of
regain the trust from the public.Because they have a pr night right now,

(01:02:08):
they really need an agency that peoplecan go to and say, hey,
look we're gonna be honest with youand transparent. You trust us,
We're NISA. Yeah, it wasdefinitely a little weird when they didn't name
him at first, and then thename came out later. I think a
lot of people just thought that waskind of shady. I gotta ask you
Ben about the alien babies. Thepicture of the alien babies from Mexico.

(01:02:30):
I don't know what to make ofthis. I mean, we've tried to
cover this topic seriously, because there'sreal evidence video from the Pentagon. We
had the whistleblower first on News Nation. It's a serious topic, there's something
going on, But the alien Imean, I'm lost with the alien babies.
I think we may have just lost. We lose Ben. Look,
we put the alien babies up andBen goes away. There we go.

(01:02:51):
We lost Ben and we lost thealien babies. I want to ask you
a bad is And I feel reallybad for Ryan Grabs, one of our
three amazing whistleblowers there who actually wentdown to Mexico, and I don't think
was prepared for Himie Muson, JamieMusson, who's been down there, for

(01:03:13):
years peddling and having high rating shows, and I initially used to love more
sons appearances and footage, but thenI began to realize that, Hemie,
you're not doing the extensive research youneed to be doing before you take this
material into the public. So whatdo you think that turned out to be?
That that weekly show that he wasdoing was UFOs funniest funniest home UFO

(01:03:42):
videos. That's what up? Youknow what I mean? It was Mexico's
Funniest UFOs. But he gets youknow, tons of ratings down there,
and there's there's been an incredible culturedown there. Yeah, but I feel
like Himie has a background well ata time, this is quite questionable.
We'll get to that. But thisone really took the cake. Of course,

(01:04:05):
it's very difficult to ask for usto look at these. I'll just
put the images up and talk tothem. Now. I've seen these stories.
I've seen these in seventeen whatever theyare before, way before, so
this is nothing new. So whatdo you know about these alien bodies?
No guy who was patting them aroundfor years? Yeah. I heard about

(01:04:30):
it about six years ago, maybeearlier, and they were just doing initial
tests on them, and I thought, oh great, you know, at
least they're actually you know, doingMRIs, they're doing DNA analysis, they're
doing all this stuff. And Ithought, okay, well I'll follow this
until they get a publication. Andnothing ever eventuated in a peer review exactly

(01:04:56):
journal, and I sort of likethought, well, you know, and
then I just lost interest because Isaid, I thought, well, you
know, I did download the articlethat was available that they did, which
explains some of the information, butit doesn't go into the nitty gritty,
doesn't go into the detail about thehistological evidence the DNA evidence, like what

(01:05:17):
base pairs does the DNA have?Is is it the same as ours?
Did they do sequencing? What?You know? What? What did they
come up with? You know,is it? You know, I think
they said it was there was thirtypercent of the DNA wasn't related to human
But then again, you know,where fifty percent similar to an oak tree?
You know, like, but youknow, well, is that what's

(01:05:41):
what's different about these creatures that makesthem wander that you know that they're aliens.
So I'm a bit skeptical about it. And until they actually released their
information and let the scientific community getin and do their own research if they're
willing to do that or then I'mgoing to remain a skeptic. But with

(01:06:02):
regards to Ryan being there, unfortunatelyhe probably didn't realize what himie was about.
And if he hail back to thetime of the Roswell slides and here
we are, yea, yeah,where Richard Dolan was sucked in and yes,

(01:06:23):
yeah, both that was built upto some you know, like ridiculous
Bimie and so he's a bit ofa I don't know, a bit of
a loose cannon stuff. It's abit of a loose story. Well and
maybe IIMI wants to believe that,and I'm always careful and how far we

(01:06:44):
still he's more intelligently Do you knowwhat these Roswell slides? They had one
of the largest stadiums, if notthe largest stadium in the world because all
the where the Mexico city is amassive population. They were charging seats,
they were charging twenty dollars to goonline and watch it. And when I
initially even saw that blurred version ofthe slide there, yeah, I went,

(01:07:10):
that has to be a museum displaying. Of course, I mean,
they can't sitting there and you know, maybe we've got a small child that
was suffering hydro carefully or something likethat. But I knew initially, just
like the Roswell autopsy, that thisis not what purported to be. And
you know that wasn't that long ago. We're talking about twenty fifteen or something.

(01:07:33):
Yeah, I'm not sure, buthe can get away with this again.
Yeah, he's doing it again.Outrageous. But I don't think Ryan
was interested in new aps at thatstage, and I think that he didn't
wasn't warned about what was in alike he was like and what it could
could be, you know, likeit could be detrimental for him at actually

(01:07:57):
tending this sort of thing. Yeah, I think, you know, high
his name took a real beating,you know, once he did that slides.
His name was Martin that you youknow in the field, and so
if you looked him up, Idon't know how you wouldn't weren't able to
find that information on him. Yeah, you were, you were stating that

(01:08:20):
you were surprised. I mean,here's some of these beings that we're not
seeing willed out of the Congress thatare much larger, and we've even had
researchers from UFO researcher in New SouthWales go down and look at these things.
But again there's there's Jamie Mossan withthese preachers. Now, why weren't

(01:08:41):
these willed out there are even morespectacular or the other ones and the baby
ones. There are a couple ofgarden names from garden artistry. I have
to laugh there and look, wehave to realize too that this has been
going on for a long time inthis area, that people are exploiting this,
and all of us are aware thatthere's some truth in the elongated skulls,

(01:09:05):
you know, don't have the parietalsuture and are not shown as signs
of cradle boarding. Yeah, butyou know, let's just take it.
The Mexican government was just presented withlittle bodies claimed to be aliens found in
a mine. I do hope thatwe find real aliens someday, but these
are not aliens. These little guysare sculptures. People in Peru have been

(01:09:28):
doing this now for almost a decade. They take animal and human remains from
ancient desert burial sites and use themto make art. The heads of the
little aliens are made by taking eithera dog or llama skull, tossing out
the jawbone, hacking the face offof the skull, so you're left with
just the brain case, flipping thataround, and then sculpting a little face
on the back of the skull.It's pretty clever. Other bones are added

(01:09:53):
to make what looks like an entirecreature, and the sculpture is then coated
in dietemacious earth. This gives ita nice creepy effect. Acton hides any
of the cut marks I find itset. That could be one explanation.
I mean, the jewry is theJewy is naughty. Just that white of
what happened with the Rosswells slides.So let's go back to a couple of

(01:10:15):
original news repoiling Good Afternoon. Aphoto at surface that a lot of people
are claiming is proof that the RoswellUFO incident was real. It's a picture
of an alien type creature and theyclaim it was taken in nineteen forty seven
in Roswell. Who better to checkit out than our Roswell. All right,
it's nine sixteen. The trailer foran in progress documentary called Kodachrome is

(01:10:40):
getting some buzz among the alien believercommunity filmmaker Adam Dow started his project after
his sister found some old slides whencleaning out her friend's basement. Some are
calling these the Roswell slides. Andthere's a lot more to this story.
So before we talk to Adam,let's take a look at a clip from
his trailer for Kodachrome. Now,has this been released to the PUBLICA and

(01:11:03):
the government knows you have this?I don't know if the government, the
military, I don't know if anyone, as in, you're not scared of
Here's what I know so far.Several months ago, I was given a
box of four hundred color cotochrome slidesthat appear to have been taken over a

(01:11:24):
ten year period, starting in themid nineteen forties. Two of the slides
show what appears to be a small, thin body with a large head and
a glass case. All of thephotos are part of a collection that belonged
at one point to Hilda Blair Rayand her husband Bernard. There aren't many
people still alive who knew Hilda andBernard, but I have been able to
piece a few things together. TheRays had no children. They traveled extensively

(01:11:47):
from their home in Midland Texas,where Hilda was an attorney and an amateur
pilot, and Bernard a geologist workingin the oil industry. Mixed in with
dozens of vacation shots are several uniquecolor photos from the nineteen forty eight National
Air Races in Cleveland, Ohio andthe nineteen forty eight US Open Golf Tournament
in Los Angeles. They captured rarecolor shots of Sam Snead and even Bing

(01:12:09):
Crosby and Clark Gable. There arealso stunning close up shots of then General
Eisenhower on a victory whistlestop tour followingWorld War Two. There are dozens more
photos that together paint a picture ofa very interesting, well traveled, and
possibly well connected couple. And thenthere are these last two photos that just

(01:12:29):
don't seem to fit with the restof the collection. And that's where we
are today. So tell us about, well, that's where we should bait
a dive, boys. But that'swhat I got from those two. You
know what standing to us, Rogerwhen we look at that and that trailer
was surprisingly discippeede from the inter Yeah, yeah, it's not there anymore.

(01:12:53):
That was what was foost because wedownlighted it at the time before the Roswell's
Slides or sorry roswell Slide, theevent, there was this supposed documentary that
was in the making. But look, we know if anything Askeper and I

(01:13:13):
know about is the history of exploitationin the film on television, in cinema,
and you might have done the postof Roger Corbyn did tens of posters
before the film was even in production, but that was the impetus to sell
the film, and then he wouldshow the poster to the filmmaker and say
I want you to make this film, and then it was up to the

(01:13:34):
filmmaker to do whatever he wants.But no one makes the trailer. We
recently interviewed the incredible Maverick directing teamof two brothers, Colin and Cameron Kahnes
and Late Night with the Devil,which is going to be an astounding feature
once that's released. That had donethe world circuit of festivals, they still

(01:13:55):
hadn't a trailer around. So myfirst thing I suspected with that whole process
was what is this trailer? Isthere ever going to be a real documentary?
And maybe this is the way thatyou sell the sizzle? Yeah,
yeah, you know certainly sold thesizzle there. Yeah, and you know
what, I've got this feeling ittakes me back to move On and excuse

(01:14:18):
me if this is my paranoid mind. But in nineteen eighty nine, the
author with Charles Blitz of the Roswellincident actually did the most incredible speech at
move On where he exposed himself tobe involved in as information sig especially on

(01:14:41):
poor Benowitz, where all those storiesof those creepy stories of underground bases that
were perpetrated by John Lear and yearslater assisted by people by like Bobblersar.
But he came out and stated that, look, you know, I'm sorry
I was involved in some disinformation andthere didn't go very down very well at
the time. But I was thinking, and I shouldn't even be putting this

(01:15:06):
supposition out there, But what's happeningwith like these aliens at the Congress down
there? That sort of smearing overRyan which we couldn't do, but it
will affect Ryan because it'll be foreverlinked to that a bit. It reminds
me very similar and what was happeningwith Bill Moore. Now. Bill Moore

(01:15:28):
actually appeared in the Astounding program ayear before that a program was evidently to
be broadcast worldwide within twenty four tothirty six hours. It was called The
UFO Cover Up Live. I'm goingto cut to a rare bit of footage
of Standon Freeman and William Moore fromthat program. Earlier in the show We

(01:15:58):
Met Bill Moore. Joining us nowwas Jamie Shanderay, a television producer and
director. Both began regular contacts withgovernment agents regarding UFOs six years ago and
amassed an enormous quantity of information aboutthe government's UFO program. Welcome, gentlemen,
But Bill, tell us how youfirst got involved. I got a
phone call after appearing on a radioshow from a man who said, the

(01:16:19):
only person we've heard talk about thissubject who seems to know what he's talking
about. He convinced me that hewas a government intelligence agent and wanted to
begin disseminating some information about UFOs tothe public. And the man Bill is
referring to as Falcon, whom we'veseen in shadow to protect his identity,
that's right. I didn't think thatI could handle it all alone. The

(01:16:40):
volume of material I was getting fromFalcon was rather mind boggling. So I
got together with Jamie and we joinedforces in June of nineteen eighty two,
and Falcon told us about him jtwelve, j twelve functions, I think
policy making group relating to extraterrestrial activitiesand contacts, and you were for activities

(01:17:02):
within the United States. They makethe policy, obtained presidential approval, and
then feel the activity. I wasgoing to go through it all their Roger
and I'm just thinking. You know, there's a great interview actually up on
the web with Stanton Freeman talking aboutthat whole incident and how furious, furious

(01:17:26):
he was because he appeared on thatprogram as well. He did that the
intelligence contacts of Jamie Schanderray and WilliamMoore, Falcon and Condor actually stated in
their very final testimony on that programin Silhouette, the destroyed the credibility of
try documentary that the aliens really likestrawberry ice cream and to bed music.

(01:17:50):
Yeah. Did you watch that whenthat I did. I watched it when
it first came out. Yeah,it was in the nineties, and I
remember the episode. I actually watchedit when it came out here. You
know what, when I purchased thata year later on videotape, is an
odd piece of synchronicity. It wasthe only to shop videotape I've ever purchased

(01:18:16):
by Code of Chrome by Kodak,was released by Kodak in this country,
which is very weird. But anyway, those two guys, they were just
like they were totally disseminating disinformation.You know what I mean, because I
watched that show and I was Iwas there for all the way. But
as soon as they said they likedstrawberry ice cream and Tibetan music, I

(01:18:42):
was out of there was done.So let me that's just a piece of
Diod't they even say that. Butlet me tell you what Stanton Freeman said.
And Stanton Freeman said that they weregiven privy access to real information.
This is what disinformation. And thenif they're going to let that disinformation out
that the only stipulation from entire insidethe intelligence Service is that it needs to

(01:19:08):
be fed with real disinformation so thatthe totality of the truth cannot be taken
muddy. Seriously, It's like you'vedropped a turd in a punch bowl.
It's good punch, but there's aturd floating around in it's so it's an
odd, and it's an odd sortof template that one. I find it

(01:19:30):
really disturbing. And what Homomus Sunhas done for quite a few years there
on the world stage when it comesto these amazing events like the testimony of
Grucian, David Fraser and Ryan Gravesis profound testimony, and then all of
a sudden, all this noise startsappearing out of nowhere and all this other

(01:19:55):
stuff that's really easy for anyone witha bit of common sense to not necessarily
debunk, but to question all ofa sudden, you know, the majority
of the population that now in themainstream beginning to think there's something to uphology.
It's a bit like what is itthe boy crime wolf that you know,

(01:20:15):
if we keep calling this is themoment of disclosure and it doesn't occur,
and these hokey things occur. SoI just like vitually your opinion on
that, Roger, you know,before we leave tonight's podcast, Well,
I think that it doesn't really detractfrom the experiences of Bryan Graves in his

(01:20:39):
I don't know, his testimony atCongresses is still valid and it's it hasn't
been brought to any distribute by himattending this a bit of a fiasco with
the alien money thing going on,So I think that and yes, you

(01:20:59):
know, like this, this alwayshappens that every time you there's there's some
really interesting evidence coming out, it'sgot to be muddy by disinformation. So
yeah, you can muddy the watersand and and you know, throw people

(01:21:19):
off that, you know, offthe trail. There's certain amount of people
off the trail. But the peoplewho can't say true believers, but the
people who who really want to pursuethis from a scientific point of view will

(01:21:41):
still look at it from from thatangle and and therefore will still keep going.
I mean, I would have justgiven up years ago if if I
didn't think that, you know,there was there was something to this,
regardless of the fact that you know, you'll you'll get some disinformation thrown in

(01:22:01):
on occasions. And you know withthe MJ twelve papers as the documents as
well, the same thing happened whereyou know, the eisenhow briefing document was
was allegedly, you know, termedbogus by the FBI, and they just
wrote bogus over the documents without andthat was James Chandero that brought those wasn't

(01:22:24):
it. Yeah, the MJ twelve. Yeah, most of those documents came
from tim Cooper, who Timothy Cooper, who whose father worked at White Sands,
and he had access to the printingof these documents. And he Timothy
got got these documents from his fatherbecause his father would you come across this,

(01:22:45):
read these documents and say, ohmy god, this is really interesting.
I've got to take a copy ofit. And that's how Timothy Cooper
got them. And then the rightsorry the Woods got them. They actually
paid quite a bit of money forenergy to obtain the documents. And there's
I think that there's some coming andtasting in these documents as well, but

(01:23:06):
there's some very interesting information that couldwell be the part of the original document.
And then you've got maybe paragraphs thathave been put in which are not
real. You know, I thinkthere's some information in those documents. But
but generally speaking, I think that, you know, there is some real

(01:23:28):
information in those documents. I mean, when I heard the name Donald Mensele,
I instantly went, well, that'sgoing to be true, because you
know, another film class, butfrom decades earlier, another aspect of here,
who does protests. I mean I'venever seen scientists go to such an
extent, released so many books todismiss what they believed to be us tilting

(01:23:48):
of windmills. Well, look forpeople who are seriously looking into this phenomena.
These stories don't deter us. Wejust go, Okay, this is
you know, a bit of disinformation. This is what they do. It's
part of the game that they play. But for you know, when we're
trying to get people you know thataren't looking into it, and then it

(01:24:13):
all of a sudden gets this hit's high profile in the you know,
in the mainstream media. And thenyou know, somebody comes in and does
you know, like some something dodgytalmadi the waters. Then people go,
ah, yes see it's this isall hokum. It's it's not real.
That just and that's what upsets me, you know what I mean, because

(01:24:38):
then the mainstream is never ever goingto take it, you know, the
major mainstream is never going to takeit as seriously as it should be taken.
And and you know, you know, get you know, scientists and
real research into this phenomena to tryand work out what it is. That's

(01:24:58):
not going to happen if we getyou know, if we if we're being
you know, if it's been treatedlike this all the time, that's that's
just what That's what gets me themost. What always gets me as the
extraordinary coincidence that all this can occurright at that same time, which makes
me estrate. It feels like apsychopic. You know. The other thing

(01:25:21):
is we're battling numerous storms here,and one of the storms is no matter
what happens out there, the sensationalaspects, the scientific aspects of this phenomena
will rate when it comes to media. The public is insatiable for these stories
one way or another. And Ithink we know everyone that's been touched by

(01:25:45):
the phenomena and one way or anotheris desperate to get a greater understanding of
it, especially those that are trulyaware that this exists. Roger, I
think we've taken way too much ofyour time later on it and and I
I can't appreciate you more for givingis your opinion tonight, We would love
to get you back in an earlierhour. We will very much act like

(01:26:09):
the I like the late night Ohreally okay, all right, remember don't
remember when Donnie Sutton used to dothe late night music program after Dark.
To remember that on Chattel seven.I think, so it sounds like we're
going way back. He did get, He did get on The Questionable Star

(01:26:31):
Marilyn Chamber. She had done onereal film with the rather that was her
sex film. Sorry, yeah,but I did see. She was interviewed
by Timothy Greenbecker. I'm going todo it again, who has a big
question mark behind his name as aresearcher. But she had an amazing you
Were Society before she passed away.Yeah, she saw surprise, surprise,

(01:26:57):
a humongous cigar shaped But it's true. But you know, I thought,
of course it's going to be Sigarin Maryland. Yeah were. We used
to be in touch with this guycalled Video Dave. You unfortunately had embroidered
on his cap VD. He's theVD right, but he had thirty six

(01:27:21):
satellite dishes, oh my god,attached to his whip bag, and he
was drawing in every news report onthe novels. It was the internet in
realgue. He was YouTube before,and I've got a huge ball about UFOs
and you used to pull it out. Anything to do with the anomalous World,

(01:27:43):
anything that was on TV news,reports of films I chambers and we're
going to start to do any chivalsection this. Yeah, well, well
we will digitize that material. Therewas so much matural of his So he
had people all over the world andhe used to swap so you could you

(01:28:05):
could go through his catalog and sayI want this, this, this and
this, and he would cut themand then we would send him stuff from
Australia that was being broadcast at thetime. And so that's how he acquired
and amassed this huge UFO archive onUFO reports from all over the world of

(01:28:28):
thousands of Fortunately there was a firein his and it all just disappeared.
It's just it's very very sad.But anyway, the videos that we got
in the in the nineties were reallyamazing, really amazing anyway, so god
we can we can really digress intoour own sporter's beard alive absence. So

(01:28:54):
again, maybe just tell us aboutthis recent work that you're doing, and
we're people can go up and checkyou out and get in touch with you
if they've got Oh, so it'sit's called the UAP Coalition, sorry,
European Medical Coalition. So I ifactually I posted on the move on website.

(01:29:16):
So we've got a Facebook site thatcovers move On, Australia and New
Zealand, and what I'll do isput their website link on there and if
they're interested in joining, they'll becontacted by Ted Road. You know Ted
Road. Yeah, yeah, sohe's the guy in chart well, the

(01:29:40):
guy at the top and he sobasically it had to be medically qualified.
But if if you're interested in contributingany of your skills towards towards this cause,
will then yeah, he's they're they'reinterested in taking any anyone in the
it can help out. So andwe're you know, they're they're starting in

(01:30:04):
yea, in countries other than theUnited States and looking at different countries and
getting the people involved because of thefact that you know, with if disclosure
ever does happen, people some peoplemay not take it very well and it
could be a lot of post dramaticstress computer that you know, yeah,

(01:30:28):
the realization that you know, we'renot alone and basically that we have no
you know, these things that areflying through our skies with impunity and could
be a threat. I don't know, you know what I think if they
were going to be a threat theywould have been a threat a long time
ago. I agree, I agree, you know what I mean, I
mean, what are they waiting for? I've said seriously, I think there's

(01:30:49):
always going to be threatening moments,like there's chaos in all reality. And
I think also the mere fact thatthis has probably been pardon past of civilization
from day one, but it's abouttime we actually stopped and paid attention to
it. And I get this feelingfrom what we're seeing at the moment.

(01:31:09):
There's been this gradual process of tryingto acclimate or even understanding if the population
could adapt to having this in theirconsciousness. And I've seen this occur out
of the military, the Defense Departmentfor decades. Yeah, I know,
but we had they were more keyboardwith all that stuff. But every time,

(01:31:30):
you know, what they do,they do, you know, surveys
and what is it? How manypercent? How many how many of the
population believe that there are other,you know, other life forms out there
in It's like seventy or something,isn't it the population from the population believe

(01:31:51):
it's something like that. That's saidthat, I think thirty percent an Australian
population thing believe that you know,they've actually we've we've had contact with an
extraterrestrial civilization. They were already there, man, what are you waiting for?
You know? I think it's justthe the military industrial complex that's got

(01:32:11):
the problems with it, you knowwhat I mean, because then they're not
in control of everything like they dothere. Maybe I believe in a thing
called catastrophic disclosure. There might besome reason that the military industrial complex knows
about that we don't know about thatbeing I mean, they're there to protect
you, you know, so basicallyjobs. Who knows? Who knows?

(01:32:34):
You could be right? I know, I know you have got attitude tonight.
Listen. Just before we end,I had no idea when were searching
the ups and downs of the otheralien story, which is the aliens in
Vegas, right which you know,I thought that there was a great ex

(01:32:56):
police officer that had gone an investigatestory from day one. It was infuriating
him because he was getting so manyrequests for it. He had to put
a camera in. He usually didan audio podcast. He goes, I
don't know why I need to goon camera. I'm too old to be
on camera now. But his namewas Doug pop Up, and I thought
the story had basically dissolved into ahoax. And then I came across the

(01:33:21):
fact that Inside Edition, which Ithink used to have the Australian team didn't
done. Leavy was the anchor,remember him. He used to smoke and
drink a Scotch whilst doing the newsreport. I mean, how lazy can
you get much of a good time? I think it was a bit would

(01:33:42):
packer there, But believe it ornot, Inside Editions still exists. It
still likes like the production team fromthe nineties. It's the story that's gathered
worldwide attention. Did aliens land inthe backyard this Las Vegas home? Recently
we told you about that spooky situationin Las Vegas when a flash in the
sky was captured on video. Thereports echoed those campy fifty sci fi movies

(01:34:04):
about alien invaders. This could bethe beginning of the end. It started
when a mysterious fireball lit up theLas Vegas night sky, which was caught
on a CoP's body camp Only InsideEdition is with the family who called nine
one one that night. Sixteen yearold Angel Kenmore says he saw two creatures
in his backyard and was paralyzed withfear. His father and brothers say they

(01:34:29):
also saw the creatures. You believeyou saw something that wasn't from this planet.
I believe I saw something, Yeah, that wasn't it from Earth?
Was this really an extraterrestrial sighting?The family says. Three days after the
encounter, a government vehicle showed upoutside the house with three men in black
to investigate. I knew it.This is an alien and you guys are
from some government agency trying to keepit under reps. We see three guys

(01:34:53):
who was driving up black suburban withyou as government placement. There was passing
around, you know. When weopened the gut right we went through them,
they just runaway. Do you thinkthat they were here to investigate what
hap When Las Vegas cops released thebody camp footage, the worldwide spotlight was
thrust on the Kenmore family. Overnight, total strangers flocked to their home wanting

(01:35:15):
to see for themselves the location ofone of the most intriguing UFO sightings in
decades. We're in your backyard now. Since all of this went public,
have people been climbing over your fences? YEA science writer and UFO skeptic Mick
West has another explanation for what theKenmors could have seen that night. The
raccoon, which has very big blackeyes, could be on top of the

(01:35:36):
fence, and so we could mistakethat's in the dark. Okay, now
I'm telling you now it's real.Smith as a minim black turned up there,
he would have bitch slept that wholefamily. I'm telling you no,
because the parents in the first reportssaid that they didn't see anything at all,

(01:35:58):
it was just the kid. Andnow the parents have come on board
and kept denying that, you know, kept saying, no, we didn't
see I didn't see anything. Ididn't see there, and now the parents
have jumped in there and gone,oh yeah, we saw them. It's
like, what do you think aboutthat? For swamp Gas twenty first seas.
I mean, my wife always tellsme, stop putting the foundation under

(01:36:20):
your eyes. You look like I'mfreaking rack food. Anyway, Yeah,
yeah, I think that that thinglooks like a mediaite that's going through the
sky and it's very low, andbasically I think people can fabulate things when

(01:36:40):
there's something around that's unusual, andI don't I'm not sure what to make
of it, but the landing spotthat they said in their backyard that made
a circular ring, was actually thereprior to the object allegedly being in their
backyard. And and you know,I don't know, you know what,

(01:37:02):
We've got a couple of adolescent grandchildren. We've got one one, you know,
and you know, he's very factual, but at times he's given the
flights of fancy and uses his imagination. I think you had some highly imaginative
young boys that actually witnessed that mediaitecoming down, may have had that interest

(01:37:23):
and out of fear as to whatthat object wanting clicks on their YouTube channel
or whatever. You know. That'show Doug Popper originally evaluated it. How
you become famous now, you knowwhat? It's another interesting story, But
it's also the timing of the releaseof that story that men in black are

(01:37:44):
walking around bitch slapping people. Ireally like it. Let's see, you're
going to get us thrown off theair. But what do you do?
I mean, sincerely, it washilarious when Will Smith appeared. If you
need you need to get a goodnote, I'm fine. Yeah, yeah,
well I think I think the lastthing we're going to go there,
because we're tagging Rodger these fast.We're only going to do an let's give

(01:38:09):
Ryan a bit of the minute ofthis podcast. Government officials can't answer this
naval pilot's question with current data.They can deduce just a few things about
this mystery dot based off of howhigh it is off the water and how
fast it's likely going. It's probablydrifting on the wind, and it's brighter

(01:38:30):
than the ocean. It's floating above, so it's likely colder than the water
and not using a propulsion system,so it's probably not a spaceship. But
because data is so limited, itmakes this a UAP, an unidentified anomalous
phenomena. Identifying up is so importantbecause it's a matter of national security,
it's a matter of aviation is safety, and it's incredibly important that we're curious

(01:38:53):
about our world around us. Here'swhy these objects are so hard to identify
and how a new report from NASAcould help solve some of these mysteries.
Ryan Graves is a former Naval Feighteen pilot who has been an advocate for
researching unidentified anomalous phenomena or UAPs.After witnessing one himself, that was very
surreal to see that because we merelythought it was a radar error. But

(01:39:16):
it's almost more unsettling when the thingyou thought was an error turned out to
be reality. A new report froman independent study team appointed by NASA is
trying to make it easier to identifysome of these objects, but the current
okay, So at least we've givenRyan a bit of tenure there, And
you know, I think Ryan's hadvery sincere eyewitness and a very courageous man,

(01:39:39):
just like David. Yes, sohow extraordinary. And look, thank
you so much for your time.Roger and my wife shown me completely off
here. Look we can be informativeand entertaining at the same pe. Have

(01:40:00):
you got any Have you got anyperformance gigs coming up? Broader? Any
music? Nicks? No, noever since I moved down to Kayama,
that was it left the band andeverything, So nothing, nothing coming up
at the moment. I'm too oldfor this sort of shit. Sorry,
I'd be like I still DJ outthere, and the kids look like they've

(01:40:24):
been hit by a piece of fourB two, But they like, I
love you, Yeah, they loveit. But it's it's confusing when this
old man walks in, you know, caring records that they're walking out with
the memory stick, you know.But look, we'll put a link up
to the move on Facebook. Australiannews people can get in attached with you,

(01:40:45):
there can't. Yes, yes,definitely, yes, yeah, I'll
have that dumb link for the upMedical Coalition on the Okay, anything else,
they send it to me and I'llput it up on anything else that

(01:41:05):
people need to be aware of interms of getting touched with networks before we
end the casting at the moment,all right, well, listen, we
really cherish our relationship with you,and we respect you immensely. We can't
thank you enough for your time tonight. And I really enjoyed doing the late

(01:41:30):
night one with you. I thinknext time we'll hit midnight. You see
where we go with that. Thatcould be scary. Yeah, and all
the best in the future, andmuch love to you and your family and
take good care of d to you. You have been on down South and
normally is this is episode forty eightwith Rodgers Staker vic? Is that how
I pronounce that witch, Steak andBitch? I? Yes, yes,

(01:41:58):
right, is an episode for you? Yes? Thank you, thank you?
Will you question me? There?We had it right in front of
it anyway, all right, kids, We'll be back next week with another
episode This guy. This guy isjust such a gentleman and a scholar will
adore him. All right, takencare speak soon, So next week,

(01:42:23):
Bye Raja, Bye bye h