Monsters on the Edge #116 Woodbooger Walk with Guest Rick Reles

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 4 (03:01):
Good morning and welcome to Monsters on the Edge. I
am your host, Barnbie Jones here on the Untold Radio Network.
We are live in studio today and happy Happy Monday
to Lee Warner and the wood Buggers or the wood Buggers.
Lee doesn't know how to spell Happy Monday.

Speaker 2 (03:19):
Lee.

Speaker 4 (03:20):
We are going to be out this weekend, guys. If
you're interested in the Caps team, we are going to
be at UFO Days in Elmwood, Wisconsin on Saturday, July
twenty sixth. There is a whole bunch of stuff going
on this weekend. I'm not going to read it all
to you, but you can head on over to UFO
Days on Facebook and check it out. But just some

(03:41):
of the stuff, guys. We have The Infinite rabbit Hole
is doing a presentation as well as myself, Darkwood's Paranormal
and all kinds of stuff throughout the day. Mars Attacks
Family Movie Night at seven pm on Saturday. There is
going to be live music, a pancake breakfast, and all
kinds of stuff. The event kicks off on for actually

(04:02):
Thursday for a UFO Kids' Day and food tent, as
well as Friday. All kinds of activities Saturday and Sunday
as well, fireworks and live music, food, all kinds of
stuff all weekend in Elmwood, Wisconsin. And guys, coming up
in September, we are going to be at Silcon in Gays,

(04:26):
Illinois September nineteenth and twentieth, the Van Meter Visitor Festival
Saturday September twenty seventh in Van Meter, Iowa, and the
Nina Public Library for a paranormal presentation followed by a
paranormal investigation of the Nino Public Library. Going to be
a great time. Then next year we had to Cape Gerardo,
Missouri for cap Con Missouri April seventeenth through the nineteenth

(04:50):
and CAPCN Wisconsin in Fondlac, Wisconsin, May eighth and ninth
and tenth.

Speaker 2 (04:57):
There we go.

Speaker 4 (04:59):
That's right, Who does not like a food tent? Absolutely
and pancakes? What is love? Pancakes? All right, guys, without
a further ado, we are live. So let's get to
our guest here today. All right, guys, My guest is

(05:29):
Rick Relis. He is a bigfoot investigator currently living in
western North Carolina. Rick is a retired from thirty seven
years of a professional business life where he traveled the
world frequently. In twenty ten, while driving across northern Wisconsin
with another business associate, they saw a sasquatch across the
road ahead of their vehicle. This began his interest and

(05:51):
research journey into the world of bigfoot. As a Bigfoot
BFRO investigator, he has attended and helped lead dozens of expeditions.
He speaks at conferences frequently, has been a guest on
dozens of podcasts on the subject of bigfoot, encryptids, and
is a recording artist with the song would Booger Walk
Out on Spotify. He consulted for the show Finding Bigfoot,

(06:13):
which aired three episodes involving encounters which he had, and
he has a book, The Field Guy to Bigfoot Stick
Structures that is in its fourth edition. He is also
a partner in I Know Squatch, a Wisconsin LLC that
sells leading edge sasquatch related merchandise. I Know Squatch has
an Etsy store which is in the show notes for

(06:34):
those of you interested, and is also on Instagram and Facebook,
and we'll be selling merchandise at numerous events all over
the United States. So, without any further ado, please welcome
to the show. Rick Brells, Rick, Welcome, thank you for
being here.

Speaker 2 (06:51):
Thank you for having me.

Speaker 5 (06:52):
Barnaby, glad to be on and catch up with you
and talk about things Wisconsin and beyond.

Speaker 4 (06:56):
Oh, absolutely, I have gotten I don't know if you know,
but I think I've met you a couple of times
at Cryptodcon.

Speaker 2 (07:02):
Yes, we got.

Speaker 5 (07:03):
Yeah, I've ended it that a number of times over
the past four years. Three four years. It's always been
a good show.

Speaker 4 (07:08):
Yeah, yeah, I know, I know I've seen you there.
I know I've seen I know, Squatch at several other
events and stuff that we've been at. But I know
I've met you a couple of times there. So yes, yes, Well,
you know I am a Wisconsin as we spoke earlier,
and it's kind of interesting because I didn't know. I
didn't know I know Squatch was from Wisconsin, for one,

(07:31):
and I didn't know that you were originally from Wisconsin.

Speaker 2 (07:39):
Go ahead, just cycled out on me there.

Speaker 4 (07:43):
I didn't I didn't know that you originally were from Wisconsin.
I didn't know I know Squatch was from Wisconsin.

Speaker 2 (07:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (07:49):
No, I've actually lived in a number of different states
over my professional career. But I know Squatch is an
LLC based out of Wisconsin. I have a partner. His
name is Hans Welbeer, and he lives. It's actually got
a place up in around Eagle River, but he's another place.

Speaker 2 (08:04):
He was in Monroe. He's on that area.

Speaker 5 (08:07):
But you know, I met him years ago on an
expedition up in Upa, Michigan, and we got talking. We're
on numerous expeditions in Iowa, Wisconsin, et cetera, and kind
of had a similar view that you know, we thought
we wanted to create a business and illustraight. He's a
professional illustrator. It does a great job on how people

(08:27):
actually see Bigfoot or report seeing Bigfoot, and so we
had depicted it that way.

Speaker 2 (08:32):
So we have peaking around the tree.

Speaker 5 (08:34):
Actually have a shirt on right now, I'm as well
a plug that's got one you could see running a strider.
So you know, we we try and we trademark and
on the word whoop, but we have five trademarks and
depictions of how people will report back. And being a
bfr O investigator, I've talked to lots and lots of
folks on their encounters and quite often a hunter will

(08:56):
say it, you know.

Speaker 2 (08:57):
They see it.

Speaker 5 (08:57):
It's you know, peaking around a tree kind of like
looking at him and says a common one people will
see it striding or running. Think of Patty, you know,
the Patterson Gimlin thing. And you know when the first
one I saw, we were talking before in our area
and it was striding running across the road. I was
with a business associate. We we saw the thing, you know,

(09:18):
just just towards dusk Lean, late November day, and you
know it, it came across the oncoming lanes, so there
was nobody in the road, across the media, and went
across front of us and kind of strided and went
over a fence.

Speaker 2 (09:31):
I went back and measured defense. It was like over.

Speaker 5 (09:33):
It was over five feet high, but it went over
like a hurdler. So people commonly will see it striding
or running.

Speaker 2 (09:38):
That's what we call it.

Speaker 4 (09:39):
That very interesting. I want to talk all about your
experiences and stuff, but before we get to that, I
want to talk about your book and a little bit
about that as well. So this is the field Guide
to stick structures. So let me ask you this. How
much of this was photographed and stuff here in Wisconsin.

Speaker 2 (09:58):
There's there's a number in there. I've got well over
a thousand images. I was in.

Speaker 5 (10:05):
Nasty National Forests in Michigan a week ago with a
number of folks doing some big footing and found one area,
which is always interesting, about six structures. They're not just
spread out across the forest randomly. You'll come to a
section or an area looks like they've been constructed, are built.

Speaker 2 (10:23):
Too.

Speaker 5 (10:23):
So we found an area I picked up on a
couple dozen pictures, but there were some very good ones
in there. And they will fall into categories, and that's
what the book explores. Doesn't try to explain them all.
It tries to categorize them and then ask questions about them,
and maybe we speculate what they are all about. But

(10:44):
it is something that in areas where bigfoots of insight
of these structures to get built. And I don't care
if you're in the Pacific Northwest or down in Florida,
a lot they will follow a lot of the same
structure types.

Speaker 2 (10:58):
You'll see the same types quite often.

Speaker 4 (11:01):
Cool And you got the links or we got the
links in the show notes here for that as well.
It's on the I Know Squatch at Seas site and
you can check that out in the show notes if
you guys are interested in grabbing a copy of the book.
Very cool. Let's let's talk.

Speaker 5 (11:16):
About and we had a chose to And I'll tell
you quick. Let me let me show you real quick.
If they get in, they're going to see not just pictures,
you know, schematics, They're going to see actual pictures and
scaled uh pictures of people around these things. And I've
got them from lots of other people who have sent
them to me too, and it'll pick out some of
the nuances in them, like they're you know, I've got

(11:38):
pointing the focal point. A lot of these things that clicked.
They're engineered. And here's some depictions of the x's or
the asterisk types. I think one of the most interesting
ones that I have in here is this one I
got from Scott Carpenter. You may rest in peace, but
you can clearly see the stress and now that's that's
been bent over.

Speaker 2 (11:56):
But the book categorizes them. It's a field guy, so you.

Speaker 5 (11:59):
Can put it in your backpack when you go out
in the woods, and you know, that's kind of what
it was made for.

Speaker 2 (12:04):
So people can go to I know, Squatch, We're on all.

Speaker 5 (12:09):
The right places people get their social media, and we
do have an Etsy source, so thank you, and we
always have. We do all original artwork, stickers, challenge coins, hats, shirts,
all sorts of.

Speaker 2 (12:21):
Stuff, so.

Speaker 4 (12:24):
Very cool.

Speaker 1 (12:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (12:24):
Like I said, I've seen you guys lots at the
conventions and stuff, so a lot of cool stuff.

Speaker 2 (12:30):
Yep.

Speaker 4 (12:32):
So sure, I love to ask my guests, Like you know,
we kind of have to speculate on a lot of
the different things that we research and know and stuff
like that. But when you're talking about the stick structures, now,
you know, what is it that you think you know
about these? What have you kind of discovered? Do you
think you have like an idea of what certain ones mean.

(12:54):
Have you found any correlation to you know, water sources,
people or anything like that?

Speaker 2 (13:01):
Yeah, questions.

Speaker 5 (13:02):
Uh, you know, first off, I think there's some similarity
between them and Native American symbology, so because I've done
some research into that. For instance, the easiest one is
the X you know, and the book will always it
talks about things to make sure that they're not snowload.

Speaker 2 (13:20):
You get a lot of.

Speaker 5 (13:20):
Snow in Wisconsin and ben trees over you know, you
can get a downforce and a thunderstorm and the part
so that will create have especially with like pine trees
that have a small root ball and just fall right over.
So you got to dismiss things. I'm not talking about that.
I'm talking about you get into a specific area and
they have all of a sudden, these things have been constructed,
and you can see they will fall into categories like

(13:41):
the X sesteris the upside down check mark shows up
a lot. There's hoops where they'll bend over a sapling,
strip off all the side branches, sometimes the bark, and
then they will stick in the ground. The skinnier end
to hold it down with a log or with a rock.
We find that quite often too, So they do fall
into similarities geometrically. But I always try to dismiss geotropism, hydrotropism,

(14:08):
anything that could affect these things in their natural growth environment.
But when you can't explain them and you see them
get constructed, especially if you're in an area you're researching
watching this over time, it's uncanny they will follow. I
think a lot of the symbols that Native Americans have,
the X means something in that like a Cherokee it
means friend. An asterisk has more of a sun meeting,

(14:30):
and that often means a male presence or a presence
in the area. So could be these things that are well,
they're not for us, but there may be them communicating
with each other. It could be road science, that could
be address markers. It could be a lot of different things.
I will say the upside down check mark that you'll
see sometimes. I've seen those in parallel one, two, three,

(14:51):
up on a lot of times, up on a high
area above a trail or where a trail goes into
the woods.

Speaker 2 (14:59):
They're like a marker.

Speaker 5 (15:00):
I think my encounters have been there a century. Sasquatch
will be where those are watching out, watching over the trailer,
watching humans, if you will so, and I do believe
there's never one sasquatch.

Speaker 2 (15:11):
They're always in groups.

Speaker 5 (15:12):
They have social order, they're not solitary creatures, and they
have different in their sociology. They have different roles quite often,
and so a century is often around that type that
you'll see up there.

Speaker 2 (15:24):
I also have in the book.

Speaker 5 (15:26):
I started to get into this because I have a
couple of habituation sites I deal with routinely.

Speaker 2 (15:31):
What I mean by that is they have.

Speaker 5 (15:32):
Sasquatch on their property, property adjacent and they have routine interaction,
whether it's gifting or exchange communication.

Speaker 2 (15:41):
I have right now.

Speaker 5 (15:43):
Two actually have third sites of constructions. I would have
multiple locations I talked to almost daily about this stuff.
But one of the things you'll find is they will
communicate with glyphs on the ground. So you'll see these
where they'll build these things on the ground and they
fall into categories two, which is fascinating being on expeditions

(16:03):
out in the woods, you see those things outside your tent.
If you're out researching and you're in the woods, have
some encounters. Make up next morning, think you hear something
around and there's like sometimes they will leave these so
on the ground, so Bigfoot are using but you know
they're using what they having the woods. It's some type
of forest language, and they're using the available resources and

(16:26):
that sticks stones quite often, and they're making symbols, and
you know, I'm comfortable with that. I don't have to
try and explain it all. But the book doesn't try
to explain it all. It says, here's I think I
have seven categories, and here's a number of things that
show up consistently with these same with the.

Speaker 2 (16:44):
On the ground glyph type things that they built. So
you know, that's that's what it's all about.

Speaker 5 (16:49):
Really, and like I said, fourth edition, I've been fortunate
enough people take interest in it and buy them at
the shows I autograph to take them out in the woods,
and then they also I have in a back where
they can get a hold of me, and they will
send me on the back. Often I'd get pictures of
these things, said, you know, and they want me to discuss.
So you know, it's an area of research. We're all
citizen scientists and this if you will, and you know,

(17:10):
it's an area of research probably underserved. I like I
try to take some interest in it and look for similarities.

Speaker 4 (17:15):
Absolutely. We had a private habituation property in an Upper
Michigan and I mapped all of the stick structures that
we could find on that property, and like you said,
they do kind of tend to be in confined areas, right,
So it's very interesting when you look at the entire woods.
You know, there's there's natural stickfalls and stuff that happened,

(17:37):
but all of these weirder what you would consider like
constructed things are only in specific areas, right. So one
of the things that we noticed on that property, and
I've tried to look at other properties and they don't
follow this, So I always like to see anybody that's
worked with these if you've had this encounter. But when
you're walking down game trails and you come to like

(17:59):
the the teepee style ones in on this specific property,
we mapped each of the sticks in that structure, and
they seem to coincide with a group with like a
cross section or an intersection of a bunch of game trails.
One of the sticks represented one of the game trail

(18:22):
shootoffs from that area, and we found a large x.
Sometimes right before if you're going down the main large
game trail, there'd be a large X and then there'd
be one of these teepe's like right in the middle
of the trail. And then we followed off these sticks.
We actually were able to lead from one of the

(18:43):
stick structures down a trail to another one at another
like crossroads and stuff. But again it only was on
this one property. We tried it on other properties where
we found these same stick structures and it didn't map out.
So I'm curious if you've ever looked at the correlation there.

Speaker 2 (19:00):
Yeah, I have.

Speaker 5 (19:01):
I think you know, again, these things, I think they're
built for each other, not for us. They could be
signed indicators. As you say, they could be directional indicators.
One of the ones I talked about in the book
is where a tree will you know, buy furcate, going
up and you'll see these long they look like walking sticks.
They're stripped on the side of You can find four
and five of them remotely in the woods leaning in there.

(19:23):
To me, that seems to be it's an indicator for others.
Hey there's maybe bigfoot or nomatic or walking through, but hey,
there's four of us or five of us in this area.
But you can't explain it with You're on a trail
that's not frequented and it's just it's a hundred feet
off the trail and there's a tree that buy furcates,
and here's five of these things that have been that
are ten feet long, all stripped of everything beside, broken

(19:45):
off different site, lean just leaning symmetrically right in the
bifurcation of the tree. And nature's not going to do that.
Nature's not going to strip them and pile them up
like that. So there's some uniformity, there's some engineering that
goes out with these. A lot of them look like
it takes multiple bigfoots to build them. So if that's
the case. Also, I would I would think what you're
saying is true that directionally could be indicators. They're communicating

(20:09):
with each other and they do put them down up
and take them down. I want to dress a little
more of that with an I need Bigfoot show. I
was on an expedition and I want to go back
to twenty sixteen or so. And I can't tell you
the exact location is north of Eagle River though, but
we were up there and in the show there were

(20:31):
two groups. I led one group and there was another
group that was led by another investigator who was down
in the southwestern part of Wisconsin. But with two groups,
and long story short, they radio backed was after we
had howls in between about half mile apart.

Speaker 2 (20:44):
But they he had stepped off a trail with the
resign to look at stick structures. They all of a.

Speaker 5 (20:52):
Sudden saw in an area they hadn't seen any all night.
Nelsen Here's this area was EFFI doesn't step off the trail.

Speaker 4 (20:59):
I having some issues with lag here. It looks like
kenn't know froze up. We are live guys, so I

(21:24):
hopefully the lag clears up here. But if you guys
have any questions throughout the show, throw them in the
comments section and we will get to them as soon
as possible. Rick has frozen and he has left, So

(22:00):
we are talking to Rick Ryles. He should be Rick Rolls.
I'm sorry, and you should be back here in just
a second. We're talking about his book, The Field Guide
Two big Footstick Structures. You can get it at I
know squatch all one word on Etsy and Facebook. You
can go check that out there. The link is in
the show notes. So we're kind of trying to chat

(22:21):
about bigfoot in Wisconsin and some of the stick structures
and that we find. How is everybody else doing today?
Looks like we have some stuff going on over here.
Hello from East Tennessee. Hello, thank you for tuning in
today and Lye as well. So hopefully Rick pops back

(22:44):
in here in just a second. He was having some
issues with lag and stuff earlier as well when we
were chatting, so he should be right back. We'll wait.
You guys have any questions, let me know otherwise, guys,
while we're waiting for him to come back. If if
you guys have not checked out the brand new documentary
from Wisconsin Caps. It is all about Bigfoot in Wisconsin

(23:07):
and all of our research and stuff as well. It
is available on Patreon and Patreon and pererfix. Check out
right now there you go.

Speaker 2 (23:22):
A d and it was made on the wine standing
la to whatever it was was breaking trees, breaking branches,
and I've never.

Speaker 5 (23:29):
Been it before.

Speaker 2 (23:30):
And from the basement door, I was like, Louis, I'm
pretty sure there's a footprint out here. That's when the
rock start coming out of this tree line. I've seen
what's hair.

Speaker 4 (23:40):
And it was like arched over right here and then
out of nowhere.

Speaker 1 (23:44):
We're here.

Speaker 4 (23:44):
It's about like earthshaking grunt.

Speaker 6 (23:48):
It rolled its shoulder and grabbed the ground and pulled
itself towards my vehicle.

Speaker 7 (23:55):
And I heard a punk like I'm.

Speaker 4 (23:56):
Over here and nat play about right there in.

Speaker 7 (24:00):
The middle of my guard You know, how do you
walk agat in a bracy at thirty degree temperature?

Speaker 4 (24:13):
Did you see that? I saw something dark in the light.

Speaker 2 (24:19):
Left it was big.

Speaker 4 (24:37):
Well, unfortunately Rick is still not back. Let's see a
squatching Cowboys says. In my opinion, why would a creature
like Bigfoot that wants to remain hidden markets territory? By
MARKI an x if I know that Bigfoot was doing
that in the first place, or that would be the
first place I would go, very very true. A lot
of the times these structures are more off trail that

(25:00):
so unless you're a hunter or off in the woods,
they're not necessarily right up by the trailheads or right
on the paths at least that we've found. In fact,
when we do find things like that, there's a lot
of bushcraft and other things that are done by you know,
boy scouts or outdoors people and stuff that leave them.

(25:20):
It's very common as well, for like you know, the
Native Americans and hikers and stuff to leave trail markers.
You know, deer hunters do it to follow game trails
back out to their deer stands and places like that
as well. So there's when we're out in the woods
and public property and stuff like that, we tend to
throw out a lot of stick structures and stuff that

(25:43):
are right on the trailheads or on the trailways where
people have very easy access to them. And it's more
of the deeper woods and stuff and on the private
properties like the property that I was talking about in
Upper Michigan. We were the only people that had access
to that aside from the property owners, and they were
deer and bear hunters and they would spend a lot

(26:04):
of time out on the woods and they I just
got an email. I'm checking if that's from Rick. See
if he can't pop back in. Yep, okay, so he said,
said the page is not responding. Oh hang on a second.
Please enjoy this brief message and we'll be right back.

Speaker 6 (26:25):
Show your support for the Untold Radio Network family of
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Ask it live via a super chat and get real
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Speaker 2 (26:48):
We need your support.

Speaker 6 (26:49):
Send your superchats and stickers.

Speaker 4 (26:51):
Now there we go, Welcome back. I was just replying
your email, and I'm like, we'll be right back after
this message.

Speaker 7 (27:01):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (27:02):
So I'm not sure what happened. So anyway, it just
wouldn't respond. So I clicked out and got.

Speaker 4 (27:06):
Back in somehow, no problem.

Speaker 2 (27:08):
Yeah, it could be all with thunderstorms out there in
the world. I don't know.

Speaker 4 (27:11):
Maybe it's something like a weird fickle thing so yeah,
uh no.

Speaker 5 (27:18):
But the point I'm trying to make, just to finish
the story I think I left off, and that we
had a group at night, red lights on looking at
six structures, and we at juvenile like four or five
foot small black bigfoot run through the group, acrossed the
trail and down or like a hill or ravine. So
they called out. I was a walkie talking. We caught
up with them, and I was very interested in where

(27:39):
it went. And it went down a hill through the
forest to a swamp.

Speaker 2 (27:44):
It was steep. Here's the interesting thing.

Speaker 5 (27:47):
So I grabbed a high beam flash, I had some
folks hold on my shoes and ancles. I leaned down
the hill and I lit it up, you know, right
down the hill, and there were several hoops built like
really like wickets and croquet, one after another, you know,
X number of feet apart, let's say, you know, forty
fifty feet apart, right down that hill into the swamp.

(28:10):
That thing ran down through those like guideposts to get
to that swamp. So that aligns with you what you
were saying.

Speaker 4 (28:19):
Yeah, a little bit. That's interesting. That's that's the first
half of running through the hoops.

Speaker 5 (28:24):
That's kind of Yeah, it might have been, you know,
if it was a Jew, if it was Juvie. Maybe
the parents constructed as a way to get back home.
It's a safe rout or.

Speaker 2 (28:31):
Something, you know.

Speaker 4 (28:32):
Yeah, you know, the adults have more of a you know,
understanding knowing how to get through the woods, but the
juveniles don't. So it's kind of right if you get lost,
follow these all the way back.

Speaker 2 (28:44):
And yeah, it was cool.

Speaker 1 (28:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (28:46):
No, I've had a lot of I've had a lot
of good expeditions in Wisconsin. I can't the location exactly,
but some of the places where we were north up
there around Blueberry Lake area, Frank's Lake, some of those
areas I've always had some activity. I think there's another
one muskie musket lunch, like you get up and out
those areas around there. A lot of woods, a lot

(29:07):
of blueberries, a lot of lakes. They can get in
and around it. We've had some good activity around there.

Speaker 4 (29:13):
Have you ever gotten to the Enterprise area?

Speaker 2 (29:17):
Tell me what it's near.

Speaker 5 (29:19):
R I have gotten up around there, was in a
some folks that do a I've been up at the
Up a number of times and up in areas around there.
Schoolcraft County up around there, Ryelander. I've gotten into some
maarias round You get some deep woods around there too,
just south and southeast of there too, some great forested areas,
And yes, I have gotten in a few of these.

(29:40):
There's reports around there. And if you go south towards
Green Bay, there's a county I think it's is it
o'conno County.

Speaker 4 (29:49):
Up there? Yeah, kind of in that area. I don't
know if it's by Rhinelander, but yeah.

Speaker 5 (29:54):
Yeah, I think it's south of there. But I had
more I spent five years or so investigating report and Wisconsin.
I moved to Tennessee and then over the North Carolina,
but I think it was O'Connor that county had more
reports than any other county in the state. And I
couldn't figure it out, and I kept doing a lot
of corollary analysis, and guess what, there's more springs and

(30:15):
waterfalls into tributaries and things waterways in that county any
place in the state. And so it gets back to me,
wherever there's a lot of water, these things need to
subsist and take a hide forest.

Speaker 2 (30:29):
To me, that always is an indicator where they are.

Speaker 4 (30:33):
Interesting. Yeah, we did. We had a lot of interaction
up in Rhinelander, and it kind of stopped for at
a certain point, and we were told that they were
over an enterprise, but we never got over there to
do any research in there. So I was just kind
of curious if you'd ever had any interactions in that area.

Speaker 5 (30:49):
But I had reports up in that area for sure.
There's another there's a park area up there. I think
the BFRO and some other groups have done some expeditions
on I scouted it years ago and we're going to
do them. But I think some groups have sense. I'm
trying to think of the name. I was just talking
to somebody about this too. I got to look at
them out.

Speaker 2 (31:07):
But it's near Island, it's not too far from that area.

Speaker 4 (31:11):
I will have to message you off air and share
some stuff with you as well.

Speaker 2 (31:14):
I'd love to have awesome.

Speaker 4 (31:18):
Myron would like to know. Can you show a picture
in your book of a Asterist structure?

Speaker 2 (31:25):
Yes, I can. I can do that.

Speaker 5 (31:28):
I had some good areas in Wisconsin that had these
prevalently too, the area down near the Southern Kettle Unit.
There's an area there. There's a I'm trying to think
of the neighborhood has a like a monk's yeah, you know,
there's there was a group of monks and everything that
we're in there. I'm trying to think of name right now.
It's a holy area and everything. There's trails around. The

(31:48):
ice Age trail goes around there, and you follow the
ice Age trail in Wiscon. That area had a lot
of stick structures that So I'll.

Speaker 2 (31:58):
Show you a couple. Here's a guy as a friend
of mine, some research in that area.

Speaker 5 (32:01):
But see if I get this centered. But here are
some good ones. You can see him standing there the
behind the one big one. He had some gifting going
on there. And then you can see this one over here.
So that the asterisks typically will have a focal point
in the middle, but there's symmetry. Always have one in
the back. That's a good one too. And I have

(32:21):
a friend of mine and she's standing there. I want
you know, your folks that are watching to see the
symmetry and the members of this across members. You know,
they're broken and engineered, stuck in there, and you might
have a big supporting beam in there too. These things
can be massive in size. I'm sure another really good
one there's a lot of times there's a member in
the center that is just kind of coggling back and forth.

(32:46):
It's like pixie sticks or you know, pickup sticks.

Speaker 2 (32:48):
They put the things in.

Speaker 5 (32:49):
There and there, you know, they will just stay stationary.
And I always trying to get some scale and get
somebody into it, if you will.

Speaker 2 (32:55):
So you can see.

Speaker 5 (32:55):
But they can get very very large in a hurry,
these things. And they can be in the ground too.
There's a good one that's right in the ground, so
I put that right there that was actually up in
the up. They'll build them and they'll be flat on
the ground sometimes too. But there's symmetry also, so an
asterisk will have more than two members to it. It's
got a minimum of three, can be four or five

(33:18):
six members, but there's a focal point in the middle
and their asterisk.

Speaker 2 (33:22):
And in an asterisk had.

Speaker 5 (33:24):
A real good one behind a remote Baptist church in
North Georgia saw a few years ago do a big,
big thing. And I think they will get behind these
things to kind of, you know, look at the world.
So they use it as a blind a little bit too.
But I often in stick structures, when you get an
area that will gift them. I'll leave something and come
back it's gone, you know. But I tend to think

(33:46):
when they build an area of these.

Speaker 4 (33:50):
Yeh, a little bit lag either. Do you say that again?

Speaker 2 (33:57):
Oh?

Speaker 5 (33:58):
I tend to believe that, and when they build or
erect an area of these things that they have other
sasquatches will watch this area and stay present in this
area over time. So we were talking I think a
little off air about the Northern Kettle Marine area too
before I want.

Speaker 2 (34:14):
To touch on that a little.

Speaker 5 (34:15):
I had an area near green Bush for your folks.
I can find the green Bush Campground just across from
areond trails going back into the Red Oaks Red Oak
Natural Area. I had an area and area research for
years and I saw them literally build these things, put
them all up one after another after another, because I
was in there every week, and then take them all
down at the end of the season. So it was
by summertime they were all built and erected in there

(34:38):
by late near they took them all down. Now that's
fascinating because they're a in one area. B they weren't
there now they are. C. They got moved around a
little bit over time. Maybe the juveniles build them as
an exercise or something, and your end and when they
took them all down, they're all, you know, there's nothing natural.
It's going to isolate itself in one area and gradually
erect these things and then take them down. So there's

(35:01):
no other animal that it can do unless people do it.
And there were no people up this child doing. It's
just not it's not a boy scout activity or something.

Speaker 2 (35:08):
Boy scouts.

Speaker 5 (35:08):
Sometimes I'll have to build lean tos in the woods
and that sort of thing, but that's not what we're
talking about.

Speaker 2 (35:12):
I always debunked that too.

Speaker 4 (35:15):
I usually like to say, if you can take a
tarp and throw it over it and create like some
sort of a you know, like a tent or you know,
shelter area, it probably wasn't made by a bigfoot. It
was probably by like a bushcraft or something.

Speaker 5 (35:28):
Yep, yes, yes, yeah, no, I agree with that. And
the hunters will build a blind sometimes, you know, then
they'll get in there. I found these things in the
Northern unit down there's eskers and kettles and things, you know.
I found them above horse trails in.

Speaker 2 (35:47):
The Northern Cattle Maraine Unit.

Speaker 5 (35:49):
I mean way above because I had some reports, you know,
people felt they were being watched, and I got in
there so really research topography. But above trails where there's
a viewing point to your I think you brought that up,
you know, the abilities they could sit in some of
theres I'd see the one next to another up on
the top of the hill just so they could watch
people ride horses go by and be undetected. So structurally,

(36:09):
I think they have meaning and purpose symbology signs. Not
a permanent shelter, but maybe maybe a place. Maybe they
hunt in them, maybe they build a blind, get in them,
get out of the cold, because they hunt turkeys. They're omnivores,
they right, I think they can observe deer hunters. And
then I had reports in the Northern Unit about them

(36:31):
stealing deer out of the pickup trucks, you know, the
deer that have been shot harvested, throwing in the back
of a pickup truck while they go and to get
the other hundred bigfoots coming out of the woods, grabbing
a thing out of the truck and running off.

Speaker 2 (36:42):
So you know, I think they use them to stay
stealth and watch.

Speaker 4 (36:48):
In regards to the Kettle Marines, I've gotten a lot
of good leads and stuff on the horse trails specifically.
Have you noticed that that there's a difference between the
random hiking trails, the bike trails, and the horse trails,
like which ones have the more more results?

Speaker 5 (37:03):
Yes, unquestionably. So there's two reasons for that. One is
they're not traveled as much. Number two is they are
wider and taller. So the clear out when you get
in there and you travel is better. If it's good
enough for somebody sitting on a horse big book can
run down and travel them at night. So unquestionably there's
something to that. So that, yeah, there are if you

(37:25):
look where the horse trails are, and there's one unit
in northern Northern one area of the horse trails, and
just to go in there, it's always flies around. There's
a lot of flies storms, but there and up up
towards Glenn Beulah over twenty three you get across twenty
I think it's twenty three of there. You go across
that ridge road up in that area. I had there's

(37:45):
horse trails open there and I had a regular area,
went in there and hung apples out for them, you know,
every week, and I come back and I take them
so yes, to answer your question, yes, no question. And
they also is a good place to observe A funny
quick story about the Ridge Road area. If you have
any people in area, want to go check these out.
You know, I think it's fine. None of it's infringing

(38:07):
on people's property. But I had a lot of interactions. Yeah,
I had a lot of interactions with them in the
northern un and ongoing. I was in there almost every.

Speaker 2 (38:16):
Week for years. You know, they'd know me.

Speaker 5 (38:18):
I'd come in and announce myself and pah, you're a knock.
You know, I'd command it. I'd be taking pictures of
stick structures back in that. If you're getting that Red
Oaks area, that's a mile back easy. There's some real
good ones in there too that they built and took down,
even thought there were some mounds maybe burial in there.
But they'd be down in a swamp and they'd hear
me come and I'd do a knock and poh right

(38:38):
back at me. I they'd answer right back. They got
used to me being there. But I would leave apples
out on a stump that sort of thing. Funny story though,
that Ridge Road area up there, I had an area
with a stump just off the trail up in a hill,
and I would hang apples. I'd get four or five
apples and hang it up and I'd get and they
tear out the bottom of the take the apples away,

(39:01):
and I'd said, man, maybe it's a squirrel. Maybe it's
a raccoon. Again, so I always try debunks I got.
You'd get plastic sometimes in the supermarket that's very, very
hard to tear. And I would get to put the
apples in that you almost can't. You have to use
the scissors or something. Put it up there. They'd tear
right through. You'd see like almost like something tore right
through it. One at the times, I kept saying, how

(39:23):
do I know it's too I would talk to the
woods and one of the times the did I left
half dozen apples.

Speaker 2 (39:27):
I came back.

Speaker 5 (39:28):
If you look at the apple, there's a little tiny
sticker on the apples. Typically they have a bar code
and sort of thing. I had a group of six
of those things were all torn off the apples, and
they were laid one on top of the other, and
they were right at the bottom of the stump. Well,
the apples has been torn out and go on. But
the stickers were stuck one on top of the other
and left there. And I thought to myself, I mean,
there's no humans gonna do anything like that, you know,

(39:50):
and it's off the trail and it's remote and all
that kind of thing, and I'm like, what in the heck?
But it's almost like they said, Okay, we'll brew it.
You don't believe it, we'll do something to let you know.
I thought it was fascinating. But you kind of have
dialogue with these things and you know, coexist with them
and on an ongoing basis too, but you always got
to treat them with respect. Native Americans always say treating
with respect, and I am very much in that camp.

Speaker 4 (40:14):
So one of the other things I was going to
ask you about is, you know, we were talking about
the correlation between the horse trails and the sightings and stuff.
Have you noticed anything else as far as correlation with
horses and bigfoot. We've heard like stories of them like
breeding the mains and things like that. Do you think
that might have something to do with it as well?

Speaker 5 (40:35):
Yeah, you know, I have read about that and heard
some of that. I have not investigated that. I think
I had one report. It was in Georgia that had
some of that going on. They will come around where
there are horses and not afraid of it. I had
an area that was a horse farm in northeast Georgia
that we used to use as a base camp for expeditions,
and they would come and jourdany. We'd be back three

(40:58):
in the morning, and between three and and the morals
they'd come into that horse camp, you know, out of
the woods. They weren't afraid of that, and bang on
the side of my camper a couple of times and bang, bang,
bang as much as sight you over there. But I
don't think they're afraid of horses. They will come in
and around those things too, and it doesn't seem like
horses are I was once on a trail on the

(41:19):
Northern Kettle early in the morning with somebody else on
a horse trail, and we saw a rider with a horse,
oh good hundred plus yards away up up a trail coming.
That horse saw us and in an area we had
had some activity, and just reared right up and pulled
up as much as you know, thought maybe we were
the sasquatch coming or something.

Speaker 2 (41:38):
So I think horses are aware of them. There is
some interaction going on there. For sure.

Speaker 5 (41:43):
They definitely sasquatch will use those trails, but you know
as a symbiotic relationship or I don't know.

Speaker 4 (41:50):
You've never had any kind of like uh more sightings
near habituations as far as like with horses anything like that, you.

Speaker 2 (42:01):
Know, Uh No, it's funny. I've had.

Speaker 5 (42:04):
Bigfoots are great mimics. One of the habituation sites I
do with in uh Tennessee, they mimic the comments. We
have number of recording We have mics, you know, boom
mics and things hanging out side in a bathroom over
some property out in the woods, and they'll mimic. We've
had to mimic horse noises and mimic donkeys. You know,

(42:25):
this is on acreage is out and which is no
animals like that anywhere, and all of a sudden you
get these records, you know, those kind of thing that
so they'll do things to amuse and you know, they're
fast and they're fascinating because they will mimic because it's distractive.
It's humans a way to look or freak out and
look another way. But I've heard the mimic the horse.

Speaker 4 (42:45):
Interesting interesting a right, changing a little bit of topic here.
I know you've talked about, uh, some of your your
visual sightings and stuff, and one of them you said
was like the spider crawl, and I'm interested if you
can kind of describe a little bit more in detail
as to what that looked like.

Speaker 2 (43:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (43:08):
So I've found a number of Class A sightings. One
in Colorado, and each time I had a Class A
someone else saw it with me. Three of us saw
one in the mountains of Virginia, same time, huge eight
nine foot tall someone in Colorado. Someone near Shano in
Wisconsin or the reservation out there, someone acrossing the road

(43:30):
there last October, someone peeking around a tree and the
habituation side. It was on at night in Tennessee. So
head peek around and the two red eyes looking right
at me. So the one that crawled was in northern Georgia.
And four of us on our trail rounding the side
of a mountain switchbacks, and we got to a place

(43:51):
where we had activity in the ravine below us, and
we heard it, I mean we'd knock, it would knock,
and it was down there. We passed this area we
thought it was down below on a ravine and it
made a whoop noise. We got up the trail a
little ways and we stopped, and one of the folks
in the group kind of cell phone signal acause a
lot of times we're remote on these, and we turned around,

(44:12):
four of us, two looking on two, and I looked
over the shoulder of the person I was with. She
was looking her cellphone, and I saw this thing come
up out of the ravine and it was like a big, gray,
crawling mass and it came up hesitated a second, then
went across the gravel trail and up and embankment on

(44:32):
the other side. I saw it in the moonlight. It
was gray, That's what I'm sure, and I knew it
was not. It was big and flat, but there was
no when you see an animal, even in the woods
in the dark, you can see, you know, the legs.

Speaker 2 (44:45):
It said, none of that. This was ambulatory, almost like
a crab crawling. It looked like you could.

Speaker 5 (44:52):
See how it moves, so like the first own the
ed and we're down kind of lower. But it was
crawling across the trail arm over arm like that, and
went up the embankment. I it was one of the
creepiest things I've ever seen. I mean, when you think
about it, I still think about it. I think of monsters.
This is a monster looking thing.

Speaker 2 (45:08):
I don't know what it was, but it was big, gray,
hairy and crawled like a tarantula.

Speaker 4 (45:15):
So again it's that night, probably hard to see, but
you know, like military crawl like the one in front
of the other kind of the hips the undulation of
the hips at all, or was it kind of straight across.

Speaker 5 (45:32):
Going it was kind of flat on the back that
the back was higher, but that's a good way to
describe it. But you didn't see the parting of the
sun or the moon was bright and it was had
lit up the trail and you could if that was
a coyote or so, you could see the legs move
and you'd see right through that what you could see.
You couldn't see that so much as you could see
these appendages move kind of and the mass move. And

(45:56):
it was it was humped on the back kind of thing,
but the head was like lowdally around and it was
crawling and it went up to some embanker when it
was going off. The embankment was creepy to it because
you know it just went up that thing like it
wasn't even there. I mean, I've seen black bear go
up embankments with a pretty steep grave too in the
Smoky mountains, you know, if you and I mean they'll
go up and go deer, we'll go up those two.
This thing went up that embankment, you know, like it

(46:18):
was adhering to it. It was just weird, like a
suction cup to it or so it was weird.

Speaker 4 (46:25):
So you didn't notice you said that the hind was
higher up, but you didn't see any kind of like
the undulation of movement. Was it pretty solid straight across
or did it it undulate? I guess as it was moving.

Speaker 5 (46:41):
It seemed pretty steady across the back, so as it
moved the so I didn't see that up and down
motion so much. I was looking for that because I
would have been able to see through legs. I didn't
see that so much. What I was able to see
was something moving on the sides, and like you described
like that, you know, I could see something reaching out
and moving on the sides kind of, but I could
not see through I could not see the moonlight through

(47:02):
it the lower so, which is fascinating about these things too,
because people will report seeing them when they're walking or
running and the top of the head doesn't move, yet
the legs move fast like they're skating across.

Speaker 2 (47:17):
So there's something about the way these things can move.

Speaker 5 (47:20):
They can keep them themselves steady maybe for looking, but
you know, the whole head, the headmoon bob.

Speaker 2 (47:26):
Up and down. When people see it's like it's stationary
and the top of the bottom is active.

Speaker 4 (47:30):
It's fascinating like they're gliding.

Speaker 2 (47:33):
People who said, yeah, roller skates.

Speaker 4 (47:36):
Yeah, I'm really curious about that because we've gotten a
piece of evidence on thermal and I first thought it
was like an otter because I had nothing for scale.
But we went back and we put a person in
the spot where this thing was, and whatever this creature
is is about about six feet about no kidding size,

(47:57):
but it looks like it's army crawling with you said,
the one arm in front of the other. But this one,
the hind end undulates with every time it brings the
legs forward. It has that undulation movement, and there's there's
not many animals that move like that. So I've always

(48:18):
been curious as to that is, you know, trying to
get underneath our camera is what we kind of thought.

Speaker 5 (48:22):
So yeah, and you're doing the right thing by trying
to debunk it with other animals. And you know who
knows that these things how they can move? But they're fast,
I mean crazy fast. You know when I saw in Virginia,
came down a ravine and it stopped a tree hop
from one side to the other. But it stopped for
a minute. We knew it was there when it shot
across the ravine. Oh my god, you can see those

(48:44):
muscles flex. And it was huge, just thinking out to
be eight nine feet tall, black, huge creature. I woke
up next day saying, how can anything that big be
that powerful? But I mean you can see it move
was fast, you know, but again the gliding motion very
much skiller gliding. But you know, these things have abilities
we don't have. They wanted to be on us in

(49:05):
the forest. They always tell hunters this, you know, because
hunters I've seen everything, and you know, I ever see
one like they could be on.

Speaker 2 (49:12):
You and you'd never even know it.

Speaker 1 (49:13):
You know.

Speaker 4 (49:14):
That's sort of quiet too, man.

Speaker 2 (49:16):
Quiet.

Speaker 1 (49:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (49:18):
I was above.

Speaker 5 (49:18):
I was in North Georgia and another thing, I'm near
Helena in the woods with a couple of other guys
years ago. We had parabolic mics, were sitting above like
a canyon below, and we barely were perceiving something behind us.
And after a period of time we got up and
the one of the guys that was turned this thermal
around behind us.

Speaker 2 (49:37):
This thing stood up and took off.

Speaker 5 (49:39):
We heard six to sinc steps before it got out
of the forested area into like a dove field.

Speaker 4 (49:45):
And.

Speaker 2 (49:47):
It was so close it shocked me.

Speaker 5 (49:50):
How did anything get that close to us and we
weren't didn't hear it, you know, it was right behind us,
you know, just watching us.

Speaker 2 (49:57):
It's fascinating. I know how these things are quiet if
they on it.

Speaker 4 (50:04):
We had one question. I kind of mentioned this myself
when you were offline there for a second, But the
Squatch and Cowboy would like to know, why would a
creature like Bigfoot that wants to remain Hidden Market's territory
by making a X if it knows that Bigfoot was
If I knew that Bigfoot was doing this in the
first place, I would go there.

Speaker 1 (50:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (50:25):
Again, I don't think they're communicating for us. If they're
communicating for each other. If the X means something to
each other. Like I said in Cherokee, it definitely means
a friend. I was on a trail with some folks
years ago and we were saying the word knock, which
is we believe from fifty years a big foot away
of saying friend, and we're one hundred people. Low was

(50:45):
in this trail and the mountain Laurels iss sceing went across.
We can kind of see as we started back down
the trail there was a huge X made out of
mountain moral all side bark and leavestrip problems laying right inside,
right in the trail. I'm flat on the trail.

Speaker 2 (50:58):
We saw that thing.

Speaker 5 (50:59):
So I communicated back to us, and you know, it's
comfortable with that that it did communicate. It got the message,
It communicated with us, so overtly left an X to
communicate with us. You know, I'm not sharing what your
question there from the squatching cowboys that wants to remain hidden.
I don't know that these things want to mein hidden
or not. You know, people see them. You know, we're

(51:23):
all amateur researchers out there. We run into them, and
you know, I don't know if they want to be
hidden or sometimes they really want to be avert.

Speaker 2 (51:30):
Other times they don't.

Speaker 5 (51:31):
They're observant, they're watching properties and people, They're fascinating with people.
They mimic people. You know, they're around properties. I think
there's lots of them. I don't think this is that
we're chasing a solitary creature across northern California. You know,
it's not that I think they're in social groups. Have
a very good friend of mine, Native American and Virginia
tells me, from going back years and years and passed

(51:51):
down information to the tribes that there are loads of
think tribes of bigfoots, families of bigfoots. They're out across
you know, the US, northern North American tribes and groups.

Speaker 2 (52:02):
There's lots of them, so you.

Speaker 5 (52:05):
Know it's got to be you know, the X might
be a way to communicate back and where it's got
some meaning to them. We tend to suppose their own
dies and say, oh, X is like a pirate lore
or something that means bad, you know, skull and cross bonds.

Speaker 2 (52:16):
Forget it. I don't buy any of that.

Speaker 4 (52:20):
Unbeknownst to us, there's buried treasure under each of them,
and we just haven't dug about that. Hey, I got
the cool stuff here coming up. I don't know what
that means.

Speaker 2 (52:30):
Yeah, right exactly.

Speaker 4 (52:35):
So you had mentioned something else that it was very interesting,
you know that a lot of these stick structures have
been seen to like stripped of all the bark or
the things and stuff. And in all the stuff that
I've researched in Wisconsin and Upper Michigan and stuff around
this area, I haven't found much of that until recently
a property very very up in the north on the

(52:56):
edge of the Wisconsin Minnesota border, I'm sorry, in Michigan border.
That's the property that I've actually seen the stripped stick structures.
So in your research in Wisconsin other places, have you
noticed any kind of you know, like they do it
in Wisconsin but not in in Tennessee or you know,

(53:17):
like any anything like that? Is it is it like
a local thing or have you found it everywhere?

Speaker 5 (53:23):
So you know, and again you always want to debunk
like a crape myrtle tree, will it sparkle shit? You know,
and some birch and everything, But they don't use those
material they use When I do this, it's typically good
you know, good stock. But you know, I can't explain
them why they do it or don't. Quite often that
they will always strip off the side you know, the

(53:43):
members and an asteriskers and they'll strip off those twigs
and things going off the side of it. They will
strip the un a sapling that's bent over, they'll strip
off the side members of that. Quite often the bark
comes off a lot, you know, they will. They will
tear the bar. I don't know why they do it
in some and not on others. Yeah, here's a good image,
you know. I always trying to get somebody in it

(54:04):
for scale. It's a buddy of mine. It's a researcher
up in Ohio. But there's symmetry to it. The bends
on and and you know again look for like you know,
the end here to be stuck in the ground. But
you'll see quite often, like with this one, everything's stripped
off the sides. You know, there were there are other
trees around there, saplings around there that have side branches
coming off, and they pull those things right off.

Speaker 4 (54:26):
So we'll hang on for a second. Are you just
when when you're saying they're stripped off? Are we just
talking the other branches coming off of it? Are you
talking the bark itself.

Speaker 5 (54:36):
Always the branches are pulled off almost in that bar,
yeah yeah, and then the bar quite often is taken
off too. I have seen with the stationary ones like
I was talking about, the ones that are like markers
out there sticking in between where a tree bi furcades,
they will take off. Here's another big exit I have
that's and this is actually uh, this is actually an

(54:59):
a mounta of South Carolina that's huge. And I have
another pictures with somebody stand up, but they stripped off
all the side on that. Okay, So I can't figure
out why on something they do it and not on others,
but there's definitely something to that why they will do it.
Here's a number of them a little about where you
could see there where I was talking about that phenomena

(55:21):
where they're uh, you know, they're putting them like yeah,
like that, but you can see some of them in there.
It's stripped off. You can see clearly, you know they've
stripped those off the side pieces. Now why and the
heck with some of these have six, eight and ten
of these all piled in there. That doesn't randomly happen
with all those sticks being the same size. Some with

(55:41):
the bark ripped off, and they're just piled in there.
And these are all off trail, They're not in a
place where people would do this. There's no reason people
leave a walking stick at the trailhead, but not a
you know, in a tree off and all of a
sudden you see a bunch of these there that's got
some kind of a marker meaning. But those things will
be stripped off pretty much spark all the time.

Speaker 4 (56:01):
Yeah, see when you mentioned that, I do when I
talk to people about this as well, Like anytime you
find a structure out in the woods and their branches,
it's probably natural because the structures that we're talking about
for Bigfoot related seem to be sticks not Yeah, and

(56:22):
then that sounds stupid for people that don't understand. But
it's a stick. No, it's a branch. Yeah, it's the
same thing. It's not. But yeah, but yeah, so yeah,
that's really interesting because I, I guess I've never realized
the difference between stripping of the branches and stripping of
the bark that you know, maybe people are describing it

(56:43):
different ways, but I've always taken this the bark was missing,
and that's that's how I was My question was, post
I found all the stick structures that I've talked about
our sticks right right, I won't find them stripped of
the bark, is what my my question was, except for
this one property.

Speaker 2 (57:02):
Yeah, now the six are always ripped off the sides.

Speaker 5 (57:05):
Is sapling the twigs and branches off the sides that's
always taken off, But then quite often the bark has
taken off to it. So I've seen it both ways,
and I can't necessarily explain.

Speaker 4 (57:15):
That it's kind of similar to the stone stacking. Now,
we went on to Kentucky and Tennessee, and some of
the researchers down there said, well, this is really common
out in the woods. You find big rock piles and
stuff like that, and up here in Wisconsin, I have
never seen anything like that out in the woods. I've
never found, you know, obviously, like on the trails you

(57:37):
find people do it, but I've never found what I
would consider bigfoot structures made out of stones. But down
Kentucky and Tennessee, I was shown quite a few of these,
and I'm like, okay, when a person, two people actually
we tried to lift and unstack one of these, and
we couldn't do it. So big piles of rocks out
in the woods.

Speaker 2 (57:55):
So yeah, and I'm always interested on expeditions.

Speaker 5 (57:58):
We have debriefs next day after being out doing night investigation,
and we talk about.

Speaker 2 (58:02):
If they communicate, how they communicate.

Speaker 5 (58:04):
Kentucky have had a lot of rock clacking, so they'll
take a couple of rocks and hit them together and back.
I've experienced a lot of that, so that that does
very little too. I have an area north of Asheville,
North Carolina, north west of they're near Marshall, that construction site,
and they're in there and they're moving big rocks around

(58:24):
on the site and almost you know, because the workers
are coming to say, hey, we didn't put that rock
over there, you know, and it's massive, and it's almost
as much as to say we're here, we're watching it,
so guess why we move this so you will know
that we're here, and we're pretty big and pretty strong.

Speaker 2 (58:42):
So there's times where I think they kind of set
the rules of the road up with us.

Speaker 5 (58:47):
We're going to interact with you and let you know
we're here. And I think the rocks have something to
do with that. Now they will put rocks. I think
I have one in the book here. They will put
rocks inside a glyphs sometimes too.

Speaker 2 (58:57):
So here is one. There's an F type that you
do see out there quite often correctly.

Speaker 5 (59:07):
Yeah, okay, there, so there's an F and inside the
mouth of the F if you will up with a rock,
I've seen that many times, so you know that just
doesn't happen coincidentally either too. So yeah, they will use
rocks answer your question at times.

Speaker 4 (59:23):
Interesting. Uh, we are coming up on the end of
the show here. If you guys have any questions for
my guests, throw them in the comments and we will
try and squeeze them in here before we wrap things up.
You've also talked about the sound these wood knocks and
how a lot of us kind of consider maybe they're
not actually wood knocks, that they're you know, either mouth

(59:43):
vocals or clapping or or some sort of other thing
like that. And you you mentioned that you use a
pop gun and to do this, and I'm really curious
what what is that? Well, I know what a popon is,
but what what do you use?

Speaker 5 (01:00:00):
So I don't knock on trees anymore I did years ago.
I do not knock on trees anymore unless you know
that it's a perfect hardwood and it's not moisture. Full
of moisture, and you get it precisely. You know you're
not going to give a consistent good sound I use.
And that goes for bigfoot too, because I'm on the pages.

(01:00:21):
They're not hitting the tree with a stick. I mean,
they quite often are going to respond to you. And
did they just are they walking around with the baseball
bat type is ready to hit on a hardwood tree whenever?
You know they want to interact now, So somehow they
are making this noise, whether it's a mouth pop like
a bear, or you know, some other some way of
doing it, or they have a chamber that inflates or something,

(01:00:41):
and they do I don't I don't know how they
do it, but they're doing it themselves, and they're powerful
and it's loud. I've heard knocks sometimes it was right
on top of me, found like a hops are it
sound like a howitzer? And I've heard them be very
delicate too. Once I was on expiss, never imitating the
way I was clicking on my phone and the nails
on it right back, So they can do it multiple ways.

(01:01:01):
I like a pop gun, because a pop gun you
can buy them, and you know cowboy stories, that kind
of thing and has a little pork in the end
and you pull it pow. Well, you do that in
the woods at night. Carries a long way. You can
put it in your backpack, doesn't weigh anything. A great
way for amateur research. Scout in the woods to a
random you know, knock and I always knocked it was
two in your group and you enter a trailhead.

Speaker 2 (01:01:21):
At night, I do two knocks.

Speaker 5 (01:01:23):
There's five in your group, do five knocks, just let
them know, hey, we're here's five. I also use a
jam block, so I used to be a drummer years ago.
I play a lot of music. But you know, jam
block is something that mounts on a drum kit and
you hit it. There's different ones, different timbers, if you will,
and you get them sort of really a dull sound,
a real high and I will take that. I have
a little mini hammer I use even a small baseball battle.

(01:01:46):
It's a little Louisville Sluggers and I'll hit it and
that resonates and travels a long way. So anything you
can do to communicate with them and try to get
something back. I don't think you should be running around
the woods banging on it in race. Hell, I think
you want to do it. If they do it, do
it back at the same frequency, same number, same volume.
You know, don't get don't turn this into a competition,

(01:02:08):
and they quite often they will communicate and get it back.
But those are two things that I used typically when
I'm out there, and I think they work really well.

Speaker 4 (01:02:15):
Okay, So like the ones that you put the little
cork in the end and.

Speaker 2 (01:02:18):
Shoot it up, Yep, yep, just works. Try it. I
didn't get one out there. Get a good plastic you
want a good section on it, like a wooden handle.
It's great.

Speaker 4 (01:02:29):
I was one of one of the other researchers on
my team. We were out and we heard like wood
knocks in the woods and he he mimicked it by
clicking his tongue and it is super loud, louder than
I've ever heard anybody else click because I can do
it and it just sounds like, you know, And he

(01:02:49):
popped it and I went hold on and we waited
and we got a reply back and I'm like, oh man,
that's I mean, it was loud.

Speaker 2 (01:02:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:02:59):
I had a Bonobol researcher on here. A while ago,
and she was talking about how the bonobos and chimpanzees
like drum on the roots of trees, and it sounds
just like these wood knocks, So you know, it's not
outside the realm of possibility that they're just right. They're
so big, their hands are huge, and you know, they

(01:03:20):
can beat on things without it hurting as much as
you know if we go over and slap a tree.
It's it's not the same, but right, interesting, Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:03:29):
It's very possible. I'm not sure how they do it, Barnaby.
It could be in a number of different ways, but
they definitely do it to communicate. And you say to yourself,
why are they knocking to communicate? Why do they whoop
to communicate?

Speaker 4 (01:03:40):
It?

Speaker 2 (01:03:40):
It's different whistles a whistle, you know.

Speaker 5 (01:03:43):
You know, I don't know, but they use different means
and different ways to communicate, and I, you know, I
think they can communicate with each other would not necessarily
make it a no noise too.

Speaker 4 (01:03:51):
So we do have one question here for you, Rick,
As someone who also shares land with a resident plan
of forced people, I deeply appreciate the way that you
approach your relationship with them, Given the years of experience.
What would you say are the most meaningful signs of
trust or communication that you've received from them, and how
did you respond to those moments.

Speaker 5 (01:04:13):
Yeah, that's so, that's very good, you know, and I
get a trust in communication with them is a good
way of doing it. I do follow, you know, all
a Native American pretty much all a Native American tribes
people so North America have a name for this.

Speaker 4 (01:04:33):
Oh no, yes, frozen again.

Speaker 2 (01:04:50):
Oh no, no, exactly.

Speaker 4 (01:04:56):
Just just at the end of the show and froze
up again. Hopefully he comes back. Yeah, I think, yeah,
all right, well we'll try and get him back on
here quick before we wrap things up. Lee says, A
great hearing from your great hearing your story last week
as well, here comes.

Speaker 2 (01:05:15):
Yeah, got back. I don't know what that was.

Speaker 5 (01:05:18):
Well, it only happened twice to us in the last hour,
so I got to look at But I answer the question.
We can try to be brief with that, you know.
I think trust is a must with these things too,
especially we have them habituating.

Speaker 2 (01:05:33):
But I try to follow what they do. They if
they knock. Just an area in north.

Speaker 5 (01:05:39):
Central Tennessee that I've been in the finding Big for
show has been in there a number of times too,
standing Stone State Park area, standing Stone Force. And they'll
communicate in their families in their new communicator. So if
they knock lightly, I'll knock lightly. I will mimic how
they communicate. They whistle right, I will whistle back. So

(01:06:02):
I let them take the lead on it. Typically, although
I have I have a signature whistle, all of the
issues when I get in the woods, got right hold
it any time them in the woods. Years ago, I
woke up and after doing that all night in the
woods and woke up miles away from where I was
doing it at a horse camp. I got up in
the morning, walked out and went to the creek. To
believe myself, six point thirty in the morning and.

Speaker 2 (01:06:23):
Out of the woods. What did I hear one of
these things? Did it right back to me?

Speaker 5 (01:06:28):
So, and that was miles from where I was doing it.
So that gets back to the question. That's trust and communication.
You know, if you show yourself overtly and you know
you're not yelling at them firing guns off, I wouldn't
do any of that stuff to aggravate them, but I
let them take the lead. If they do a loud knock.
I'll do a lot of knock. They do too, I'll
do two. They do a loud howl. It's hard for

(01:06:49):
us to really mimic that.

Speaker 2 (01:06:50):
I don't.

Speaker 5 (01:06:51):
I don't want people to run around and it woods
making noises.

Speaker 2 (01:06:53):
Trying it. You can provoke a little bit that you
don't know what they're saying. Don't do it.

Speaker 5 (01:06:59):
You know, I've heard them speak. You know, I've heard
the samurai chatter type thing. I don't go out in
the woods that start calling, you know, making noises like that,
So I think it would be offensive.

Speaker 4 (01:07:10):
Do you see what's happening with my camera?

Speaker 2 (01:07:13):
What's it doing?

Speaker 4 (01:07:14):
I Nothing is moving. I like, my camera is literally
sitting here. There's nothing moving here.

Speaker 2 (01:07:32):
How is that happening?

Speaker 4 (01:07:33):
I have no idea. Like, my camera is right here,
sitting on top of my computer. The screen is not moving.
It's literally the camera lens is turning in the camera,
but there's.

Speaker 2 (01:07:49):
No way it can You're getting some paranormal communication.

Speaker 4 (01:07:55):
It's rotating my whole screen.

Speaker 5 (01:08:00):
Well, i'd like to I'd like to tell you it's unique,
but I've I've actually had this kind of thing happened
in bigfoot discussions before, just.

Speaker 4 (01:08:07):
As I've had weird shows with paranormal before, but never
on the Bigfoot topic. So now it's snapped back. I
didn't touch anything.

Speaker 5 (01:08:16):
That's bizarre, so barnaby, we didn't dive deep into the
paranormal thing today. But I believe these are physical creatures
with a paranormal side. And what you just experienced, I've
experienced in phone conversations and video on this topic a
few times, especially if you get in a very meaningful
discussion with respect, all of a sudden, weird stuff happens.

(01:08:38):
And I'm glad to see that happen I experience.

Speaker 4 (01:08:43):
I told them what it is I've done.

Speaker 3 (01:08:46):
Lee.

Speaker 4 (01:08:46):
This is one hundred and sixteen episodes of this show,
and I do the paranormal spectrum, and I think I'm
up to like sixty episodes of that, and it is
never that's hilarious.

Speaker 2 (01:08:56):
I've done this well to the club, I don't know.
That's great.

Speaker 4 (01:09:03):
Well, I have no idea what to tell you there.
I've never I've used I use a GoPro for my
my screen, my camera here, and I've never had this before.

Speaker 5 (01:09:21):
Well, you know what, any door you take into the
paranormal realm to get in there, it opens up other ones.
They all seem to. It's just crazy, so it doesn't
surprise me. Stuff stuff like this happens. So maybe it's
a Maybe it's the paranormal side of Bigfoot, just letting
us all know. Hey, we enjoy the conversation and the
acknowledgment and we're okay with it, but we're letting you.

Speaker 2 (01:09:42):
Know we're here. Like I was telling you about the
big rocks. Got to keep an open mind with this
part of me. You never know what's going on. Longer
you're into it, the weirder it gets.

Speaker 4 (01:09:55):
I'm disappearing again.

Speaker 2 (01:09:56):
So that's funny. I could see it.

Speaker 4 (01:09:59):
I I really appreciate your time. I'm sorry that we've
had such a mix up and I have no idea
what the heck is going on here.

Speaker 2 (01:10:08):
That's hilarious, so I will I will thank you for
I can see it down. Let's do it again sometimes,
see if we get this to kick.

Speaker 4 (01:10:19):
Up absolutely before we head out. I do have your
information in the show notes, and for anybody that's interested
in your book or any of the I know, Squatch stuff,
do you have any events coming up, any speaking engagements
or anything that you'd like to talk.

Speaker 5 (01:10:35):
About or yeah, real quick. I got two to two things. One,
I'm a recording artist. I go by the name of
just Rick, so people can find me out there just Rick.
I'm on Spotify and iTunes and any place to listen
to music. And I did a song called wood Booger
Walk that's been picked up on ticked up and used
tens of thousands of times and things so people might

(01:10:56):
get a kick out. It was kind of a blue
rop and it's about pick when. It's got the lyrics
to talk about Bigfoot and how people see it. So
check out wood Booger Walk by just Rick.

Speaker 2 (01:11:04):
That's me.

Speaker 5 (01:11:06):
When you're out there, I'll be in Marion, North Carolina,
and then you out near it. You are a Deton
in August. There's two festivals out there I'll be at
and I'll be at a I'll be at Westminster, South
Carolina in October, and maybe up in cryptocon we'll see.

Speaker 2 (01:11:21):
I'm working on that right now.

Speaker 4 (01:11:24):
Very cool. I think you can still hear me, right,
I can hear.

Speaker 2 (01:11:27):
It, but your FROs up.

Speaker 4 (01:11:31):
My camera.

Speaker 2 (01:11:35):
Alrighty, that's craziness.

Speaker 4 (01:11:39):
There you go, I rease up the cameras. Maybe you'll
stay here for the end. Here but awesome. Absolutely, yeah.
I appreciate you coming on, and I apologize for the
mix ups here.

Speaker 2 (01:11:49):
That's fine.

Speaker 5 (01:11:50):
I appreciate I appreciate your audiences, the questions, appreciate you
having me on the show. Lots of topics in this
feel the subject matter anytime you want to talk about.
And I'm still out there research and all the time.
So you know, let's do it again the future. To
pick another subject to talk about. I'd love to and
I love to reflect on places in Wisconsin. Absolutely, oh
now you FROs.

Speaker 2 (01:12:12):
Alrighty, all right, we.

Speaker 4 (01:12:15):
Have any other technical difficulties, I'm gonna say thanks again
and thanks for coming on.

Speaker 2 (01:12:19):
Man, I'll talk to you, thank you, Thanks, all right, bye,
bye bye.

Speaker 4 (01:12:26):
All right, guys, that is our show for this week.
I have never seen that, as anybody ever seen that before.

Speaker 1 (01:12:31):
I have.

Speaker 4 (01:12:31):
I don't even know how that's possible. Nothing was moving.
It's just literally my lens was twisting and uh yeah,
I don't know. So thank you guys for watching, Thanks
for tuning in and hanging around for all of our
technical issues on today's show. But that's the that's the
fun of doing live shows. So until next time, guys,
thanks for watching. Thanks for tuning in. Remember to like, subscribe,

(01:12:53):
and share all things here on the Untold Radio Network.
Go check out I Know Squatch and all of Rick's
other stuff as well. Check out his book I Know
Squatch on at the links in the show notes if
you want to get yourself a copy of the Stick
Structure book. So until next time, guys, I'll see you
in the edge.

Speaker 5 (01:14:11):
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