Monsters on the Edge #125 EDNA & Data Collection with Guest Thomas Shay

Welcome to Monsters on the Edge, a show exploring creatures at the edge of our reality in forests, cities, skies, and waters. We examine these creatures and talk to the researchers studying them.

Joining us on this week's show:
Since Thomas Shay’s first encounter in 1987, he has devoted his free time and resources to the study of the creature known as Bigfoot or Sasquatch. As a result, he currently possesses the largest collection of original Bigfoot castings east of the Mississippi river; including hair that meets Dr. Fahrenbach’s gold standard.
In his early years Thomas researched in Washington State, Illinois, and Ohio. He has assembled a team of researchers with varying skills, knowledge and perspectives. He has appeared on Finding Bigfoot season 5 Episode 1; APTN red earth Uncovered season 2, episode 3. In addition he has been a guest speaker on multiple podcasts and news programs over the years.
Now retired, Thomas spends his time researching and sharing his knowledge with the Bigfoot community. He lives in Trimble County Kentucky along with his wife and son.

Northern Kentucky Bigfoot Research Group Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/groups/488381544566776

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Turn up die feel as I get ready to ignight,
untold stories in the airways, flying through the night, Experience voices, Tale,
soap streaming and life Truth dumb Phone until Radio Network,
The Secrets come high you episode stay the mystery strive,

(00:26):
great guess, super sad so I remember I sharing subscribe,
join the side where truth can't hide as in the eye.
You have fos in the sky, cryptis Lark, can't go
my oline posts in the hallway whispering your name, the

(00:49):
paranormal beyond explain, Come I can get the incesscoop, unlock
the mysteries. Be thought of group live streaming stories and
talking to you.

Speaker 2 (01:04):
Super chis buzzing.

Speaker 1 (01:06):
Join up group, told me Net the secrets come alive.
You have the sub stated the mysteries by great guests,
super Chat. It's a lot, remember Saron, subscribed on the side.
But you're gonna as know where you've got the guns
and you want to explore.

Speaker 3 (01:28):
And told this is what you're looking for.

Speaker 4 (01:31):
Elis and ghosts and all that's unseen until me.

Speaker 1 (01:35):
On Network where the world mysteries.

Speaker 4 (02:01):
Intact.

Speaker 3 (02:37):
BA Good morning everybody, and welcome to this week's episode

(03:05):
of Monsters on the Edge. Here on the Untold Radio Network.
I am your host Barmie Jones from Cryptid's Anomalies on
the Paranormal Society. Today's show is pre recorded, guys, coming
up hopefully if this airs at the right time. This weekend,
we are going to be at the Van Meter Visitor
Festival in Van Meter, Iowa, is September twenty seventh at

(03:29):
the Veterans Reception Center, Richland Road in Van Meter, Iowa.
You can get all the information at Chad Lewisresearch dot
com forward slash shop if you are interested in there's
some Van Meter history tours and other stuff about the
Van Meter Visitor so head on over and check that out.

(03:51):
I don't know what that is. Guys. We are going
to be at the shaoh Public Library on October sixteenth
and the Nina Public Library on October twenty fifth. We
are doing both events. Are going to be exploring the
paranormal and we are doing paranormal investigations at both libraries,

(04:11):
so come on out. The Shanta one is at six
o'clock and the Nina one is at six point thirty.
Next year, we head to Cape Girardo, Missouri, April seventeenth
through the nineteenth for cap CON Missouri and Find Black
Wisconsin for CAPCN Wisconsin. Both are going to be great events.
More details to come, but guys, my guest today is

(04:36):
Thomas Shay. He is had his first encounter in nineteen
eighty seven. He has devoted his free time and resources
to the study of the creature known as Bigfoot or Sasquatch.
As a result, he currently possesses the largest collection of
original Bigfoot casts east of the Mississippi River, including hair

(04:58):
that meets Doctor Fahrenbox Old Standard. In his years, Thomas
has researched in Washington State, Illinois, Ohio, and has assembled
a team of researchers with varying skills, knowledge, and perspectives.
He has also appeared on Finding Bigfoot season five, episode one,
and in addition to being a guest on multiple podcasts

(05:20):
and news programs over the year. He is now retired
and spends all of his time researching and sharing his
knowledge with the Bigfoot community. He lives in Trimble County,
Kentucky with his son and wife. All right, guys, please

(05:55):
welcome the show. Thomas Shay. Welcome. Thank you so much
for taking your time to be here today.

Speaker 2 (06:01):
Thank you for asking me absolutely.

Speaker 3 (06:04):
I have heard nothing but good things about you, As
I said coming in here, I've I've seen you a
couple of times at the conventions and gotten a chance
to see your your awesome collection of casts and that
at like Cryptidcon and some other stuff. So it's really
cool to finally get a chance to talk to you.
So awesome. So I want I want to talk to

(06:28):
you about your your data collection because you know, as
in your bio and as I said you, you have
quite a collection of cast Do you know about how
many casts you have?

Speaker 2 (06:38):
You know? No, not right now? I mean I have
there at one time, I know I had like two hundred,
but I got more now, uh, And can be totally
honest with you, I'm still going through the data with

(06:59):
them right now to verify if they are prints, okay,
and not hoaxes and stuff. So you know, uh, just
because I cast something, I keep it. Even though I
find out that it was a stomper or somebody made
the track, I keep it as and put it down

(07:20):
on my data as as a hoax as a reference, okay, uh,
because that that that data reference will go back and
tell me, okay, I had run across the same person
whoever was doing this before. So you know, m h,

(07:40):
that's right there. But no, I had like two hundred,
but I got a whole bunch of them right now
that are just sitting and I haven't got them verified yet,
and I don't want to release them until I actually
get the verified. Uh. I don't know. Uh. I think
a lot of people have talked to you about uh
if you been the conventions with me. Uh, I don't

(08:04):
release a lot of my stuff until I get verification.
Uh I do send all my stuff either Cliff and
Cliff you know that goes with doctor Meldrum and you
know they converse over it and find if there's any
faults or uh if it's a great fine. Uh m h.

(08:27):
It's just like uh when Cliff is here at my
home and uh he saw my my castings. And I
got some castings that's hanging on the wall in my building.
That's my my my big put shop. It's not in
the house, it's out in my building. That's my personal space.
And uh I had uh casted some handprints and uh

(08:52):
I said, well, you know I cast them and they
were pretty good sized, and I thought, well I put
them up here. They're just a good conversation. I don't
know if they're real not, you know, you know, h
that's like the second hand cast I got, and it
was perfect, you know, like like when ordered hand. But
it's bigger mine, way bigger than mine. And uh, Cliff

(09:16):
and Bobo come out at Crypto conk the house to
look at my cast and me and Cliff walked over
and goes, oh my, look at this. Where did you
get this at? And I told him and I said,
there's another one right there where it shows where it
had bit its uh knuckles and palm down, you know,
like it got it to the top of the hill
and rescue leaned or something the ground with its fingers curled.

(09:41):
And uh. He thought that was the most coolds thing.
He goes, you know how long have you had that?
I said about a year. And then he showed me
a picture of John Freeman's Paul Freeman. It's cast and
cast then you got out of the Blue Ridge Mountain
range and he goes, I was thinking this might have

(10:06):
been his, that somebody stuck in the ground, and you know,
you cast it. He goes, but this is the opposite
hand mm hm, So I think mine is left hand
and Paul Freeman's the right hand if I'm correct, and

(10:28):
uh uh they almost match, but they're opposite hands, so
there's a correlation. Also, there's a footprint too that I
believe doctor Milton Uh took one of the toes off
ucause the one I have the toes missing because I
believe there was a rock area that didn't pick up

(10:48):
the toe. But doctor Meldram had show a picture side
by side of it, and uh took that same toe
off on another one that was a Paul Freeman's cast,
and they were so identical, the narrow hill, the toe spray,
you know. So that gives you an understanding that so

(11:12):
many miles apart, you know, and the year difference. I
think it was like ninety seven and miles in two
thousand and seventeen. Yeah, so there's a big timeframe there,
you know. Mhm h. That's why you want to cast

(11:36):
all this stuff. Now.

Speaker 3 (11:44):
I think that you know.

Speaker 2 (11:45):
Data think the data system is casting you have to do.

Speaker 3 (11:52):
But we have a little bit of lag there. So
what I was gonna say is, you know, even with
the hoaxed or the the fake prints and stuff that
you have, you know, we we recently investigate a case,
and it was very obvious that these were not real prints,

(12:17):
but we documented the entire site. We took casts of
some of the prints and stuff, because even if it's
not a you know, the target species, it's still important
to look at it and see how it moves. You
can still learn a lot by studying the prince and
treating it as if it were a real case, to
find how the person walked through the area, and and

(12:41):
study that in practice, because you know, when you do
come across a a large trackway of prints, you're better
equipped to understand that. And like you said, it's it's
good to have that on file as well, because then
the next time you come across possibly the same trackway,
you'll know that, you know, these prints that look a
certain way are are made by a person and not

(13:02):
by what you're out there looking for.

Speaker 2 (13:13):
That's that's true. And also, like I had, I get
new new researchers all the time come out here and
want to learn stuff about you know, why did you
cast this? How come you got this? You know if
it's fake? While yeah, and I'll show them. I said,
now look, I'm showing you this. This is what you
look for, you know, tell that it's fake, and they

(13:35):
look at it and they sitting there, they're taking pictures,
you know, and they're taking notes and everything. You know. Well,
I wouldn't have thought that as well as it. I mean,
that's that's part of we as researchers. Have to be honest.
Everything we collect, you know, is not one hundred percent
big foot. Uh. Hair samples, Yeah, I got hair samples. Uh.

(13:59):
Actually Uh, I got like three or four that were
verified as the coats damn the fair box coats standards.
But uh and uh. I said a couple of things
to uh, mister Olcott Darby. Uh. For it's for the

(14:22):
DNA study m hm hm hm h m hm. And
only that the data also suggests with the casting prints
and stuff, how many individuals you have in your area

(14:44):
mhm right now we have? Uh. I was playing like fourteen.
I told the people, uh, plus two brand new ones
to do juveniles prince I have. But recently, this last
time I went out, I went out to an investigation.

(15:05):
This is an individual that I casted that doesn't match
none for the cast I have. So I have another
individual in this area. So just telling me, I mean
in the family group I got here, m hm. As

(15:27):
everybody knows if they ever listened to Doctor Melton and
Cliff Barton. Uh, the toes tell you a whole lot
of story. You know. It's just like a fingerprint. Nobody
has the same type of toe. You know, our toes,
our fingers, our thumbs, they are all shaped differently. We
don't match. So that's how you can pick out if

(15:50):
you have an individual just cast and when you're casting it,
it is like I have one cast that was back
to two thousand and five, and I had casted this
individual again in twenty fifteen, twenty sixteen, and as recently

(16:16):
as twenty that I have cast are still in the area.
The one cast that I cast, we call him the Goliath,
the big one, Big four prints. Now I've only casted
him a couple of times in this area. Well, actually

(16:41):
I would say three or four times, four prints at
different years. He'll come in and be here for I
would say a couple of months, did disappear for three
or four years, but I'll never pick his prints up again,
his tracks, and then all of a sudden, you know,

(17:04):
he'll show up again, and then you know, I got
him in the data in the data again in this
new time frame, so he's leaving the area, going somewhere
else and coming back. Mm hmm. And yeah, I also

(17:26):
make sketches. I make sketches of all my footprints. I
get uh h pictures, measurements. I take a death gage
and you can pick what he's up at any type
of machine shop. It's a death gage, and you get

(17:50):
the death of yuh exact death foot from the here
everything like uh just because I had the cast, you know,
and I got all this stuff put out. But you know,

(18:11):
things happened. We could have a big fire here, you know,
or an earthquake or a tornado or just like this
this uh spring, the floods, you know, and we use
all that. But if I have it all written down,
I have it sketches and stuff like that. You know,

(18:35):
we got stuff on uh uh these things here. I
got a lot of these put up. Everything is copied.
A lot of these here SD cards the best cards

(18:58):
uh not for our votes to put uh cd ROMs. Uh.
I've done all the pictures that way. But cd ROMs
are becoming a thing in the past now mm hmmm.

(19:19):
Me those little tiny micro uh set player that little
timey uh huh for recording so you know a lot
of stylegia I have left from when I was first started.

(19:42):
I keep it all, keep it all. And you know,
just like notes, take notes, people go out with, you know,
get your note back notebook. I got this one big
book that over the years I have wrote down stuff.
Kah through notes that mh. I wrote down napkins and

(20:09):
put in this book. Kept the nap and uh. Sometimes
he gets upset with me because I'll run across movie
through said, I'm no, I've gone Ah, I've come across

(20:41):
this before. I need to go back and I pull
all and what I do and I will I'm angle
take one other thing too. Mm hmmm. A lot of

(21:01):
people talk about me about how I do, how good
I am, and all the evidence I all. Also have
a team stuff. They need praise. They are in my
bike zone and we're a small, small team and we're

(21:25):
like family. And I love every one of them, and
I'm going to tell you right now that I would
not give up none of them. These are the best
guys and gals in the country. And the one thing
about my team is they come from different states. They're
not all from Kentucky. They're from Indiana, Illinois, Tennessee, Michigan.

(21:52):
I got one that comes from out of Nebraska. I
got one that comes out of New Mexico. So you know,
these are people from different states that come here and
work with me, and they got their own research going on.
But they work and then they won't learn some other

(22:13):
new stuff, you know. H h so uh uh I know.
But we're using for right now because there's a correlation

(22:34):
with the power line. Everybody says, well, they followed paralyzed
because this is easy way. You know, everybody's lazy. It's
a clear cut wait. So we started using that and
with the data we have right now, there is a

(22:55):
correlation with the MS. It does make it creates a response.
So hm, we're trying to you know, we're not rich,

(23:17):
none of us are. So we're slowly piecing stuff together
a detector so when we run this through here that
we can have it on a screen and it can
be recorded that we're we're putting out a m F
and we're getting an m F signal back. You know,

(23:40):
h m hmm. It might not be nothing, it might
be something else, but there's a correlation with it. We're
gonna we're gonna run with it. We're gonna see what's
going on. But until the science has proven that, you know,

(24:00):
that's what it is, we're not going to come out
and say, well, this DMF. You know, but there's correlation
and we've had some success with it and we want
to continue. And that's the reason why we're trying to
get one of these machines that read and will digitally

(24:20):
print out the way you know. Hm, I know I'm rambling,
but no.

Speaker 3 (24:30):
You're good. So you're talking about collecting the EMF data.
And so there's a device in the ghost hunting world
and it's called an e d I and what it
does is it it collects humidity, air pressure, temperature EMF

(24:55):
vibration and it records it all to an SD card.
So it you put the SD card in your computer
and it actually opens up like a graph or a
spreadsheet and it shows you all that data. So that
might be something to look into. I think they're like
like under three hundred bucks for one of those, but

(25:15):
it sounds kind of like like what you're trying to
look for. But it has a digital readout on there
for EMF and then some other readouts and stuff as well,
so that you can see a real time but then
also records that data, so something to look into.

Speaker 2 (25:34):
Yeah, now, I do know that with them, some animals
do respond to it. Deer number one, deer will respond
to it. Now crows, let me tell you what. Crows.
Once you start using them, crows will well come into

(25:57):
the area if you got crows and start calling, and
I'll start I mean, yeah, what are you doing. There's
been several cases we used it and we've actually had
uh uh you frozeen my didn't it thing?

Speaker 3 (26:20):
What are you doing to project the E M F H.

Speaker 2 (26:29):
I have a an E M F box And what
we got is we got uh sort of like a uh.

Speaker 4 (26:39):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (26:42):
It's as long as it tip my tongue and I
forgot anyway on a call blast. But we are putting
out there as a uh a signal. H oh my god.
I have to go out to the building and look
at us. Well, anybody's interested, they can contact me, you know,

(27:05):
and and I'll get it. Right now. It's out in
the building and I'm trying to think what it is. Oh,
it ain't a car blaster, it's something else.

Speaker 3 (27:19):
But kay, is it an em pump?

Speaker 2 (27:23):
I believe a show with Adam sad sadamage. Uh huh,
myth busters go go myth busting. They Yeah, they did
a series about sound waves how it would in fact,

(27:47):
and we were using the same type of thing and
that's how we got uh and yeah, you know, if
somebody's got an idea out there and put it out
there for some type of use, some of the people
that work with me, they'll they'll bring this idea up.

(28:08):
Why don't we try to do this, incorporate what they
did with what we're doing, and see if we can
get it to work together. And then you know, we'll
put our heads together and we'll try to do it.
And then if it doesn't work, we you know, we
we don't actually scrap it. We go back to it.
We try to figure another way. But we're always always

(28:29):
looking for something new to use. You know, there's so
much stuff out there that people are doing right now
that all you've got the video and somebody telling you
this is what happened, okay, and there's no actual data

(28:51):
suggesting what happened, Like the orgs. Okay, we got video
orgs and I usually don't say too much about them
because they can't plan. I don't know what are they
part of the Bigfoot phenomena. Probably not, and they probably are.
I don't know. But to me go out here and say, well,

(29:12):
the orbs are part of the Bigfoot phenomena, you know,
I can't honestly say they are. I have seen orbs,
but I have seen orbs you know, in other situations,
you know, and not even regarding bigfoot. Uh yourfos. Yeah,

(29:34):
that's the same way with a bigfoot. You know, we're
gonna have to have a body, We're gonna have to
table food ship. Uh, we're gonna I mean, there's so
much stuff out there that people are not using science
with they're there. It's our conspiracy and we can't do that,
you know, if you ain't got the hard proof science,

(29:55):
you know, h and I'm being alone this series. Okay,
we have to have actual data to prove, you know,
what we're saying, and if we don't, we're just not
it's nothing. It's the same way with stories. You know,

(30:19):
people can come out and say, you know, and this
is the biggest truth thing about it. I'm gonna tell
you right now. Human nature, everybody loves to hear a story, mythology.
Everybody does, word of mouth, you know, we've sat down
by the fire. We listen to those stories, you know,

(30:40):
and that goes back years now, thousands and thousands of years.
You know, we sat down and did all this. But
it's a story. It's word of mouth. Somebody, somebody saw
something that's fine and dandy. But you know, then they say, well,
this happened back in eighty five, you know, And I'm

(31:03):
saying I need something now that happened yesterday, not twenty
years ago. That's all it is, is the story. I mean.

(31:23):
And my wife's a psychiatrist, and I'm gonna tell you.
Everybody says, well, I use my I got psychiatry, you know,
you know, training and stuff like that. My wife's a psychiatrist.
She's a psychiatrist, was a psychiatrist for the state. And
she'll tell you not all of it's no science. It's

(31:47):
not all of it's no one hundred percent.

Speaker 3 (31:52):
Hm.

Speaker 2 (31:53):
Because I asked her one time, I said, Okay, if
somebody's talking to you and they're not looking in the face,
are they lying? And she looks to me because no.
Some people are hyper sensitive with their surroundings. She's you know,
she says, for example, you you talk to everybody, you
talk to me. You're never focusing on me. You're always

(32:16):
darting around looking at everything else. With one you was
in the military and you got that hyphened sense. You know,
you're you're gonna be watching everything else. Some people just
can't look at another person in the face, you know,
they can't make high contact. We you know, uh, the person,

(32:39):
your personality, you know, moods not. Everybody's built differently the same,
you know they trauma trauma is the same way. Everybody
deals with trauma a different.

Speaker 3 (32:50):
Way, you know.

Speaker 2 (32:55):
H uh. One guy said, all I took the story
just kind of hear he just kind of like laughed
a little bit about it, you know, and I thought
were lying about it. And you know, I say, well,
you know there's some such you know, some circumstances. A
lot of people have to laugh when they can't understand something.

(33:19):
That's the only way they can get through it. And me, see,
so you think it might be really and it might.
You know, people deal with things differently, and that's part
of the data. It's going too. If you talk to
somebody and they see something like that, just because they
they crack a smile or they're not looking at you

(33:41):
in the face or uh, they're kind of drawn back
and you don't have to think about it. People are
not built all the same, so we're always going to
have difference of opinion or how we how we do things.
So you know, I every witness that that talks to me,

(34:02):
you know, and and I take your story. I take
you know, I document everything they said tell me and
stuff like that. Now I even document some of the
stuff that's way out there. M hm. Now I'll give
you an example. This one witness was telling me, goes, wow,
I saw this. This people come out of the woods

(34:24):
and as this fine saucer landed and they this amyen
got out and they walked across this field. They did
a high five slap, you know, both hands, and they
did a chest bump and walked off into the woods. Now,

(34:44):
how are you going to take it? Yeah, now that
there's a little far fetched, you know, but I still
documented it because, oh my gosh, if somebody read my
notes and some of the stuff that I wrote down

(35:06):
about certain things, even other researchers, man, they oh, some
of these guys will be be cracking up, and some
of them be wanting to dig me up and beat
me up. All right, what's true? You know, I don't
lie nobody. I don't want to lie nobody. Uh, when

(35:28):
I get myself in trouble a lot, if somebody as
send me a picture with a circle in why you
put a circle there? Well, that's where it's at, I said, Well,
I said, in all actuality, I said, you need to
leave the circle out so I can find it myself.
But you're pointing to something and what I'm seeing right
there is nothing a shadow that could be anything. M

(35:54):
And then you know, you get these pictures worth a
hundred circles in them, you know.

Speaker 3 (36:06):
So I want to ask you going back to you're
talking about how Goliath kind of disappeared for a while.
What do you think why do you think that is?
Have you found anything in anyone else's data in those
time periods where he's not by you that would, uh,
you know, kind of show where he goes or anything

(36:27):
like that, Like has anybody found footprints up in Ohio
or something that match those prints?

Speaker 5 (36:33):
You know?

Speaker 3 (36:33):
Like, is there any kind of outside, outlying data that
that shows anything.

Speaker 2 (36:41):
Well, I'm I'm gonna tell you this. Uh, Cliff Barrickman
found something that appeared to be just about like a
lion's footprint here last year out in Oregon, the same
hill shape. The say, you know, I think you've seen
that big twenty one inch footprint. Think so light in

(37:04):
the mud and how deep it went?

Speaker 3 (37:06):
Oh yeah the slide one, yeah yeah, he got one just.

Speaker 2 (37:09):
Like that, same shape everything, but in Oregon last year,
you know, and mh. But the toes weren't visible in his,
so we couldn't tell. But the heel and everything, you know,
the shape just perfectly and everything. A lot of researchers

(37:36):
don't want to show their stuff to other researchers. Sometimes
you can detect where somebody's hope something and they don't
want you to find out. Because there have been several
people that I asked, said, can we see that cast?
I mean, I don't really like you to bring that

(37:57):
cast to me, or I can come out to you. Well,
I don't need nobody to check it out. That throws
up a red flag. M All I'm asking to do
is just check it out. So you're throwing the red
flag up, you don't want nobody to check it out?
You know, you know it's real, Well, why not have
somebody verify it? The more verification. You have the better

(38:20):
the evidence. So you know, there's a lot of researchers
out there that don't want to show their stuff for
a simple fact is it's probably fake. And I hate
to say that, but and I love to look at

(38:42):
a footprint, and I'll tell you that casting. I love
to look at a casting. You know. You send me
a picture of a cast or a footprint in the dirt,
you know, I'm gonna examine it, and when they enlarge it,
I'm gonna check it out, you know, and I'm will
give you, you know, my opinion on it. If you
say it you want my opinion, I'll give you my opinion.
And there was one here just recently. Somebody said to me,

(39:05):
and it's here in Anderson County, and uh he sent
me the picture and I said, that's a double step
of a black bear. You know anything, we have black
bear here, I said, every once in a while, I said, melill, well,
get kicked out. My mother will kicking out so we
can go on his own, I said, And they will

(39:27):
move north or south to find a place. I said,
you probably had one that moved in that territory for
a little bit and not more than a day later
it came out, ah in the newspaper on the news
actually the news news that a baron decited in Anderson

(39:48):
County black Bear. So yeah, can I pick up print
and tell you what you know? Most most likely you know?
Eighte time? I will. And I can definitely tell you
something's faked or been sculpted. And I've done that quite

(40:09):
a few times. Huh. We was in uh Stanton and
a gentleman brought a cast. Now, the pictures that he
sent h had just some discrepancies in it, you know,
but that's a photograph, Okay, until you get the actual

(40:31):
cast and look at it and check it out, then
you can tell. And he brought that to Stanton and
showed it to me, and I showed it to Cliff
and we both agreed that it was an actual footprint
of a Bigfoot. It's not a human that wasn't sculpted.
It's an actual footprint of the big Foot. That was

(40:53):
the way the metatrsos have was into flexibility. But uh,
he was. He was happy. I got verified by two
people that were well respected.

Speaker 3 (41:09):
And uh mm hmmm.

Speaker 2 (41:12):
And there's been people that brought me cast and I've
told him, must have these have been sculptured, and you
see the fingers, you know, where somebody has took their
finger and skulked at the toe and the palm and
the heel and you know, and I'll point it out
to him and they look at you while you're crazy.
You don't know what you're talking about. I've been doing

(41:34):
this for a long time. You know, I probably you know,
you know, mhm hm. I'm probably rambling too much here, but.

Speaker 3 (41:50):
Just listening, just listening, I mean, that's just it.

Speaker 2 (41:55):
I mean, you just gotta m hum. I don't want
to be somebody I you know, I'll just tell it
like it is. Yeah, I'm just good old Kentucky boy.

Speaker 3 (42:09):
So just hypothetically, let's say that the cast that Cliff
got in Oregon is the same creature. Why why do
you think that that? Well, let me ask you this.
Do you have any data around that same time by
you that would show that he was there instead of
up in Oregon?

Speaker 2 (42:29):
Yes? You do, Okay, he was he was still here
because I had just catched the footprint when he showed
me those footprints. So yeah, uh, not to say the individual,
but the same species.

Speaker 3 (42:50):
Oh yeah, okay, Yeah, but you don't think it was
the exact same uh individual that was in both locations.

Speaker 2 (42:57):
No, because that the same leakend that he had cast
that up her I had actually found where the one
we called the lab had had come through here, and
they were not more than maybe two three days out.
There's no way across the country two days. And I

(43:20):
could tell this individual because after I catched the footprint,
I checked it with his with the other footprints, and
they matched the toes, matched up the shapes, so we
had the same individuals.

Speaker 3 (43:32):
That's that's really interesting. So I've heard Cliff's whole presentation
on being able to map these each individual over time
in certain areas and follow them and stuff like that.
So what you're saying is is you're looking at the
specific toes like length and width and how the toes
are to be able to determine that, because that's that's

(43:55):
a lot of information to be able to get out
of a print to know that it's a specific individual,
especially over a time period if they're like in a
different area or anything as well.

Speaker 2 (44:07):
So the one distinguished feature with Goliath is a big
toe has a diamond shaped to it. Okay, okay, all
the other ones have round or oblong, they're all different.
Like goliaths, the same print comes up the same toe

(44:27):
shape of the big toe. And that's how you tell
the same individual there. Like I said, if you go
home and get your brother and your dad and you
put your feet up there and you have everybody looked
at your foot, you know your toes ain't going to
match or even walk in the sand with, you know,

(44:49):
a whole bunch of you stand. Look, you know they're
going to be different shapes, they're going to be different.
You know, lanes with they're not would be the same.
Same with the hand. You know everybody's hands different.

Speaker 3 (45:09):
So what have you determined?

Speaker 5 (45:10):
Then?

Speaker 3 (45:10):
Following the different casts and that, how how would you say,
like the family unit is built? I know Meldrum talks
about how uh there could be one male that kind
of travels around between the different groups and then there'd
be like a female and some juveniles and stuff and
what have you found in your area? Seems to be

(45:31):
what's going on?

Speaker 2 (45:35):
That's that's my opinion too. We have one alpha male
that travels and I'm not saying he travels thousands of miles.
We might travel into another county, you know, ah, two
or three counties a way and come back. You know. Uh,
I have actually, uh, with the evidence I've found, he

(45:59):
does travel a ninety miles square ninety square mile radius,
but he could actually do more. But that's where I
found the data footprints, you know, and when you do that,
that's when it comes full circle. I got ninety square miles.

Speaker 3 (46:22):
And how long of a time span would that be?

Speaker 2 (46:25):
In a year?

Speaker 3 (46:28):
In about a year's he's gone in about a ninety
mile radius. So have you found his prints with other
like family units at all then to indicate that is
the difference. Okay? Interesting?

Speaker 2 (46:45):
Yes? And also another thing too, is is that you
you might want if people are out there actually trying
to get castings and they come across the cast doesn't
look right cast it anyway? Because I casted a couple
of prints and it it kind of threw me off.
There was a footprint inside the footprint. Mm hmm okay,

(47:08):
now what what my my? What what my hypostais is?
It said, uh, the adult will walk first and the
juveniles will walk behind in the footprint a right to
cover the you know, you know, preditors.

Speaker 3 (47:31):
Yeah, m hm h.

Speaker 2 (47:36):
On something else somebody had walked in it and he
found a print to uh. And also I think the
Olympic project up there catching a couple of prints that
way too, the juvenile inside the prince. So I believe
that's what he told me. I do know he found

(47:58):
one and he sent me pictures. Uh, juvenile had walked
inside of an adult. So there's a lot. I mean.
I got all my cast out and I look over
again and again.

Speaker 3 (48:10):
H m hm.

Speaker 2 (48:14):
That was actually that was swift right there. Uh yeah,
that's part of the day too, you know. I get
them out and I look at them over and over again,
because there's always something you're gonna miss. Uh h. I'll

(48:39):
put a foot casting out here and the casting over here,
and I'm gonna study both casting. I'm looking for that
that one thing that distinguishes the difference in each cast,
and that's another individual, even the new cast I got.
I do the same thing. H m hmm. Hand cast.

(49:05):
If you come across hand cast, please cast and be
honest with you. Any footprint you get, uh m hm,
take pictures of it on a grid square, you know,
a little black paper with the grids on it, uh,
with a and take pictures of it at all angles,

(49:31):
at all angles, because just one angle. The same way,
when you're out in the field, you want to get
pictures of the trackway at all different angles because a
light will shed a lot of things on it. In
the picture, just a picture itself, you can't really tell
how deep it is or any distinguishing characteristics about it.
But if you take different angles, you'll you'll you'll catch it.

(49:54):
And also to whoever's you're sending the pictures to will
catch it too, h.

Speaker 5 (50:01):
And set it off to the clip. I haven't put
it in the database. I really we get in the
database is is ah?

Speaker 2 (50:17):
It catch me out? The more data we got in
the database, the more knowledge we're going to get.

Speaker 5 (50:25):
M hm.

Speaker 3 (50:29):
How how often do you come across like everyone says
there's there's you know, like one or two footprints and
then the whole trail just disappears, but you hear like
talking about them, like doing like the spider crawl and
stuff like that. How often do you come across prints
that are you know, like where they'd be up on
their toes instead of being and being flat footed? But

(50:51):
how often do you just find like partial prints where
they seem to be like walking on their toes or
or up at an angle like that.

Speaker 2 (50:59):
I won't I want to print like that.

Speaker 3 (51:01):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (51:02):
The only time one and I took it. I took it,
you know. It was on the hillside, like just you know,
and I had enough casting material from where I catched
some other stuff and I casted it. I actually gave
it clear he's I don't know if it came out

(51:23):
to be anything or not like that, but you know,
I gave it to him. I said, here, I said,
I cast it on the hillside where it was like
tiptoeing up to it, you know. So I don't come
across footprints like that much.

Speaker 3 (51:38):
Do you do you have any thoughts on like the
spider crawl. Do you think that they're like up on
their toes or do they still walk flat footed or
what do you what do you think about that?

Speaker 2 (51:51):
Uh? Be to you. Honestly, jos saw one one time
that way. It did just spider crawl like, but it
really wasn't a spider crawl. It was on all fours
with rump up and stuff like that, and it was
moving pretty quick. But as far as me telling how

(52:15):
it was, it was in the area of grass, and
I mean there was no way to pick up you know,
a perfect print.

Speaker 3 (52:26):
M.

Speaker 2 (52:27):
And you said something about footprints disappearing. Well, there's a
there's a simple explanation about Danny. It's a substrate m.
You know. Substrate You know, you can be soft and
cushy and stuff like that and pick up good prints
and then all of a sudden you'll get rock hard.
It just depends on on the limestone foundation underneath, and

(52:49):
also your debris. You're dead followed debris, how much that's
built up both years, because some of that stuff turns
into like concrete over time, and it takes a real
good soaking rain to loose it up.

Speaker 3 (53:07):
Hm.

Speaker 2 (53:08):
But of course I've seen it where uh, it would
rain for two or three days and go in that
area and just top part would be wet because of
the run off, and it'd be dry and leech to
the wet part. So you know, it's still hard. Just
because footprints disappear, it doesn't mean that they go through

(53:34):
a port or nothing like that. Sub straight disappears. Uh.
Actually I've noticed that. Uh they use following dead fall
logs and stuff to transfers.

Speaker 5 (53:50):
Ah.

Speaker 2 (53:51):
You don't track these things like an animal. You track
them like a man. What are you going to do?
To keep from being seen or followed. So you've got to,
you know, put yourself in issues. H.

Speaker 3 (54:08):
What are your opinions on the stick structures.

Speaker 2 (54:15):
I've never seen anything build it right, But you know,
I know big I know boy scouts, I've done it.
I know hunters even I've built hunting a turkey. You know. Uh,

(54:40):
I have to see something built that before I can
say that it's a structure by bigfoot MH. But some
of the stuff it's really you'd have to have, you know,
get strung men to blist on this stuff that I've
seen that. But you know, still I haven't seen anything

(55:05):
after it had built it. So can I say a
big foot, I have to see it. The same with
the glimpse on the ground and stuff. You know, dead
fall falls the way it does, It just falls, So
you know, a couple of little limbs fell down and
made a certain little design. M. You know, that's that's

(55:30):
nature m H. And B put trying to tell us,
you know the message, M. But I don't want to
hurt my feelings or nothing like. I'm open mind about
a lot of stuff, but I have to be open

(55:56):
to the real wind. Yeah. Uh, I can't go into
this dark side of Could it be supernatural or a
you know, I'm not going there. I'm going there a living,
fresh and blood creature. That's where I'm at. I've seen

(56:19):
one up close. M hm. It was manlike m h.
It didn't disappear and walked off and I watched it
walk off.

Speaker 3 (56:31):
So you know, mhm. Have you found have you found
anything that you consider like the nests or anything other
strange out in the woods when you're out there.

Speaker 2 (56:50):
Well, I found a nest what I thought was a nest.
Uh h.

Speaker 3 (57:00):
H.

Speaker 2 (57:01):
I will say that maybe a homeless person might have
been there and made this betting. It was a huge
betting area made out of the cedars and grass, so
mm hmm. Also, bears will in eastern Kentucky you have bears. Okay,

(57:25):
southern part Kituct we have eastern southern part. You have bears.
Bears will will. We'll make themselves a den and betting
area and stuff like that, and they'll leave. Okay, the
big priests will fallow follow through and come in on that.

Speaker 3 (57:43):
Mhm.

Speaker 2 (57:44):
We'll use it. Uh. I am not going to tell
you to go out and look at these these things
out in the woods where bears don't, no Ah, dream
caution has to be done on stuff like that. Even
in my part of the world. It has to be
stream caution because you never know that you're going to

(58:06):
walk up on somebody out in the woods living here.
And I've done that before. Be out there and some
homeless guy has set himself up a tent and living
off the grid out there. M h.

Speaker 3 (58:30):
Yeah, we ye, go ahead.

Speaker 2 (58:38):
Let me can be really really be hurt because Uh,
I walked up on one guy and h m hm yeah,
mum hm. Actually UH pulled a hatchet and a lot

(59:08):
and and another thing too is uh there's a lot
that goes on that is not reported your people that
work on power lines out here in the rural part
of the country. Uh, these tree cutters that go out
and cut the tree line around the power line stuff.

(59:31):
I've talked to a couple of these crews that have
saved something watching them and they said that might have
been a bear, but it was on two legs. It
stood there for a long time on two legs, and
we all know bears don't stand on their legs hind
legs at for a long period of time, So you know,

(59:51):
m h. Now they're getting paid good money to go
out here and do this stuff, and they don't want
to mountain, you know, until the world they saw something
out there because they get read on them, you know.
But I've talked to a couple of people. He didn't
talk to some other people. Uh, two couples that were

(01:00:15):
two people that worked at the landfill here. Uh. One
of them retired, you know, I was still working there. Uh.
They said they came in one night, one morning early
and was working the front fader on this gar bridge pole,

(01:00:36):
this landfield, and they've seen these two big, old harry
things out there digging through the rubbish, the garbage. And
they said it wasn't this gentleman here. He said, it
wasn't the main I mean, it wasn't a bear, but
it looked more like a man. But it was covered

(01:00:57):
with hair. So it was the other one. And they
said it squatted there and it was when they were huge,
and when they got really close with the front loaders,
they got up and took off. And he said these
things were tall and fast because they was out there
and no, you know under you know, I don't think

(01:01:21):
a band could run that fast.

Speaker 3 (01:01:23):
But hm, interesting, I've heard stories of like train conductors
as well that have seen them. Have you heard anything
like that down there?

Speaker 2 (01:01:34):
Oh yeah, there's this place. These trains and they dropped
the box cars off and leave them. And you know,
if you're driving down the country and you go along
here to these train tracks, you know you got second
seven tracks and you got these these box cars that
they're wide open around corn fields and stuff like that. Well,

(01:01:57):
this one place had uh people were seeing something out
there that was large, hairy creature and uh it was
around uh it was more like the country, but around
the factory too. And he's the trains will dropping he's

(01:02:18):
uh boss cars off and black cars and stuff and
leave them and come back and get them. Well, uh,
I got end of it. I was told about it,
and I went out there and I checked things out.
I found some footprints, some huge footprints stuff like that.
And what I think was is that these things get

(01:02:40):
in there and get out of the heat or out
of the coal at least abandoned you know, empty cars,
and then they get hooked up and you get taken
someplace else and then they stopped and these cars are
left there and they get out and they're in this
area here. Yeah, I do think they're like hobos. They
they they'll get on a train, you know, trying to

(01:03:02):
stay out of the hot weather or the rain or
you know, it's a shelter. M h. You know, all
of a sudden they get you know, taken off because
the train comes up picks them up, and then they're
in another state. So you know, yeah, I do know.

(01:03:24):
I had one engineer one time, returned to engineer. We
used to see all types of strange things on when
it was engineering. He was h they saw a big
monkey one time on the side of the tracks and
it's a big monkey. He goes, well, not monkey, big

(01:03:44):
old gorilla. Where was this at doctor uh around Seymour,
Indiana or something like that, you know at that time,
because I believe the tracks we were opening that time.
I'm not even sure if the tracks are even there anymore.

(01:04:04):
But we used to be a train to run through Seymour.
And yeah, he was an engineer and he used to
run it that route. He says, all big old green,
big old uh gorilla on the road. Monkey, but he
calls a gorilla afterwards.

Speaker 3 (01:04:29):
I love how the people say, you know, like, oh,
did you ever see a big foot or anything?

Speaker 2 (01:04:32):
No?

Speaker 3 (01:04:33):
No, no, but I saw a gorilla. I saw a
bear on it. You know, they'll admit that stuff very easily,
but they won't. They won't take that one little step
further and and call it what a potentially is.

Speaker 2 (01:04:45):
So well, there was that grab they were grabbling uh
uh these uh country roads, the dump trucks.

Speaker 5 (01:04:53):
M hm.

Speaker 2 (01:04:54):
There was a dump truck driver. He said it used
to go this route and they were graveling this long road.
And he said every morning when he passed a certain spot,
this thing would be standing there watched, you know, watching
him go by. And I said, what thing is as

(01:05:15):
you're talking about he goes, big old gorilla? He goes.
It was a huge gorilla. But he didn't have a
hunchback or nothing like. It just stood straight up. And
I said, didn't do anything, he goes, No, he just
stood there and watched me as I went by. He said,
every morning about the same time. But when I've come back,

(01:05:38):
it was gone. Because what they do is they take
that gum prison there in that logging road and drop
the gravel down and go back and get more. And
it was a pretty good size. They said that happened
that he worked a walk for about a week and

(01:06:00):
he saw it every day about a week.

Speaker 3 (01:06:04):
Did you ever go out there about that time?

Speaker 2 (01:06:06):
Then, No, that happened before I even you know, a
couple of years before I talk to you. M He
was a one of my presentations one town and he
stopped me and told me the story and stuff like that.
But I know where he's talking about because there is

(01:06:26):
a history of sightings in that area.

Speaker 3 (01:06:30):
So very interesting. All right, well we are we're probably
coming up here on the end of the show. And
I wanna you said that you had an event coming
up here in Indiana this weekend.

Speaker 2 (01:06:45):
No, it's a It's September September twenty sixth and twenty
seventh at Nashville, Indiana. I'll be speaking at the Indiana
Bigfoot Conference being hosted by the Indiana we Quit Research Organization.

Speaker 5 (01:07:00):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:07:01):
There will be a Ridan le Beck in the box
is gonna be there, Greg Yoe's, Dusty Ruth, myself, There'll
be a couple of other people. Uh. You can get
tickets on line and stuff like. Come on now, it's
gonna be a great event. Uh, hu come out. I

(01:07:22):
have my casting's there. Uh, I'll have copies if you
want to purchase one for for you know, it's a
history piece. They had been been verified, so.

Speaker 3 (01:07:34):
Yeah, ry cool. Other events coming up? Are you gonna
be a cryptic count again this year?

Speaker 2 (01:07:40):
I'm not sure if I'm gonna be a crypt coun
this year. Uh, that's still in the air.

Speaker 3 (01:07:47):
Yeah. We we took this year off a cryptid gun,
so we've been there the last couple of years.

Speaker 2 (01:07:54):
Yeah, I'm not really sure yet. But what I'm gonna
do uh cool. I do it for free every year
because to to Kentucky mm hmm. But I'm just not
sure this year.

Speaker 3 (01:08:12):
It's a lot of work. It is, it's in your backyard,
but I mean.

Speaker 2 (01:08:22):
Mm hmm. And I'm always I'm always available for anybody
who wants to ask me questions or uh need some information. Uh.
I might ramble a lot stuff like that, but that's
an old man talking there. Uh uh. If not, I'll

(01:08:44):
throw you a notebook. We'll look look it up yourself,
you know. But uh, yeah I can. I got a
lot of history written down and uh and I'm hoping
to share it.

Speaker 3 (01:09:01):
M hm hm.

Speaker 2 (01:09:03):
All my stuff is going to be donated to uh Cliff,
so uh when my time's up, he'll have all the information,
he can put it out there. And I told her, listen,
I want to use his educational purposes. Whatever you want,
do whatever you want. And like I said, there's some

(01:09:23):
stuff in there that I've read over, I read again.
I went back to it, even forgot about it and
went back and thought, oh my god, I did this.
You know, it's like reliving history. I mean, it's it's
a new adventure, reliving adventure. So that's why I document it.
You know, Uh, when if you go on document, document time, humidity,

(01:09:47):
the weather, the moon phase, Uh, get your barometer, get everything.
I mean, because when it comes down to it, we're all, uh,
there's there's something always involved why these things show up.

(01:10:11):
So yeah, it's extreme heat. Everything's gonna you know, hunker down.
Same way of cold weather. Everything's gonna hunker down. You're
nothing gonna move during the storm or during in climate
weather except at night. So yeah, very limited too. So
there's no sense in going out. Like you said, you

(01:10:32):
have an event this week and you're gonna do something
this weekend, but you've got weather coming in. You have
to move, and in climate weather, even animals they hunker
down their weather. Hm.

Speaker 3 (01:10:45):
So mm hmm Okay, all right, Well, I appreciate all
of your insights and all of your hard work. I mean,
that's that's quite a long time of research and a
lot of data collection, and you know, like you said,
it's gonna you know, it's it's very important, you know,

(01:11:06):
all the stuff that you've done and research, because it's
it's all gonna matter because when you're trying to find
information and patterns and stuff, the more information that you have,
even if you don't think that it matters at the time,
it may be may be important down the line to
yourself or someone else that comes across something and is
able to cross reference it. I appreciate it. So thank

(01:11:29):
you so much for all the things that you've done.

Speaker 2 (01:11:32):
And it really I mean I just haven't planned. That's
something I loved you, I enjoy doing, I love doing,
and I'm trying to find out. Thank it's on my
own too, because I have questions that I still need

(01:11:52):
to be answered.

Speaker 3 (01:11:53):
So absolutely well, best of luck to you and and
hopefully your weather gets a little bit better down there
and you can get out and less flooding and heat
and stuff and get a good chance to get out
there the rest of the year.

Speaker 2 (01:12:09):
So okay, thank you absolutely man, all right, will.

Speaker 3 (01:12:15):
You take care and we will chat again.

Speaker 2 (01:12:18):
All right, thank you.

Speaker 3 (01:12:21):
All right, guys, that is our show for this week.
Remember to check out the everything here on the Untold
Radio Network and links in the show notes for Tom
Shay's research on Facebook as well as some other stuff.
So head on over and check that out. And if
you're in Indiana this weekend, head on out to the
convention and meet him in person, see the collection of
casts and all things that he's got going on there.

(01:12:45):
So until next time, guys, I'll see you on the edge.

Speaker 2 (01:13:18):
A thing. Yeah,