Taking Weird #160 New UFO Hearing Overview with Jason McLean

Author, illustrator, and Biblical paranormal researcher, Jason McLean lives in Waxahachie, Texas with his children and beautiful, long-suffering wife. Beyond his lifelong love of art and comics, Jason’s life has been consumed with the study of archaeology, cryptozoology, ufology, and astronomy in order to better understand the Bible, its teachings, and the One behind its creation.

Visit Jason's official website here: https://sirupapers.com/

That's right Dean's partner on the old Mysterious Library show returns to the Untold Radio Network for this special overview of the most recent congressional UFO hearing – titled “Restoring Public Trust Through UAP Transparency and Whistleblower Protection” - which took place earlier this week.

This is the kind of insightful and fast-moving conversation which long time viewers/listeners have come to expect from Dean and Jason.

They'll also be talking about the upcoming Crossing Reams conference, that takes place September 19-20, in Richmond, Missouri. Both Jason and Dean will be there, and Dean will be screening his multiple award-winning short documentary THE SHAVER MYSTERY, as well as speaking about some of the later aspects of the "mystery" not covered in the film.

Tickets to Crossing Realms available here:
https://www.eventbrite.com/e/crossing-realms-conference-tickets-1086549913039

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
The paranormal, UFOs, monsters, mysteries. As you're listening to Talking
Weird and know from a Kevin deep in the northwards
your host, doctor Dean Bertram.

Speaker 2 (00:23):
Who.

Speaker 3 (00:42):
Well, greetings all my fellow weirdos and weirdos, thank you
for joining me on Talking Weird on the Untold Radio Network.
I'm your host, Dean Bertram. And it has been a
very sad week in many ways. And perhaps Jason and
I will get to that. I just spoilt my guests,
which I never do. WHI goes to show that I

(01:02):
guess difficult period that we're moving through as a culture
and as a people has hammered home to me anyway.
Like I said, I've given away who it is. But
he's a very good friend of mine. He's an author,
an illustrator, and a biblical paranormal researcher who lives in Waxahatchie, Texas,
which I probably pronounced wrong like I usually do, with
his children and beautiful, long suffering life. But beyond his

(01:24):
lifelong love of art and comics, his life has been
consumed with the study of archaeology, cryptozoology, eupology, and astronomy
in order to better understand the Bible, its teachings, and
the one behind its creation. So I'm delighted to welcome
back to talking with my dear friend and my co
host on the old Mysterious Library show that used to

(01:45):
also run on this network, my very very very dear friend,
Jason MacLean.

Speaker 2 (01:51):
I think that's probably as close to a correct pronunciation
of waxa hatchess you're ever going to be able to
give giving is you know you're from down under.

Speaker 3 (02:01):
That's that's yeah, that's the that's the way. One day,
I'm gonna get it. My girlfriend, who's probably in shet
always corrects me as well. She's like, it's this, don't
you know she's singing some Is there some country song
with a reference to it? I do. I even forget
the song.

Speaker 2 (02:12):
I think there is. I remember hearing it. But you know,
like I said, my favorite joke is the dairy queen one.
So anyway, but I've told that one hundred times on
this on this show, so we will will skip it,
particularly given the chaos of the recent events. Yeah, doctor

(02:33):
Jeff Meldrum passed today and he had been fighting brain
cancer for a while. And I know there's a lot
of people who are going to jump out and talk
about how good friends they were. Most of them spoke
with him. Once I spoke with him. I had the
pleasure to speak with him on a number of occasions,
but we weren't friends. But obviously, this is a huge
loss to the community. This is a huge loss to

(02:55):
cryptu zoology in general and those interested in Bigfoot specifically,
And we just have to carry on and just do.
We're going to have to just work ten times harder
to make up for what he brought to the community,
what he brought to the conversation, what he was able

(03:15):
to do with his position. So we're just gonna have
to work that much harder. And again, we're going to
miss you. Jeff.

Speaker 3 (03:23):
I never met the man. I always enjoyed watching him
on documentaries and listening to him on shows, and they're like,
he's certainly to me seem like kind of the new
Grover Krantz. And when I say new, he's been in
the area so long. But when Grover Krantz passed, Jeff
Meldrum seemed like the person who filled that space, the
you know, respectable academic who took the Bigfoot story not

(03:48):
only seriously but essentially subscribed to the idea that there
is an unknown North American ape. So yeah, so that
that's so. We lost a giant with Crents. I guess
we lost another giant with Jeff Meldrum.

Speaker 2 (04:03):
Yeah, And and they both they both sort of came
out of the same MELEEU. So it's again, the loss
is very, very hard to quantify, but this is Yeah,
it's a it's a big loss for the community and
for the profession. Like I said, it just means we

(04:24):
have to work harder. It just means we have to
be more diligent. And I think of it as a
call for people to get out there and do better work.
And that's the common and something we've talked about on
this channel back when we were doing Mysterious Library, and
we've talked about on this on this show multiple times.
We just got to start doing better work, right, it's

(04:47):
the days of again. Personal encounters are great, but we
need objective, verifiable information and evidence. Everyone has to step
has to step their game up. It's not we're no
longer in a position where we can gather the evidence
and then maybe give it to someone, you know, give
it to Jeff Meldrum for him to do something with.

(05:09):
We have to be able to collect the evidence ourselves
and start doing this. We just got to do the
work better because otherwise, what would you know? Then what
he did was for nothing. So we are working towards
that day, and we all should be working towards the
day when a better conversation can be had, sort of
like what was happening two days ago on the congressional level.

Speaker 3 (05:33):
So and before we move on to that, and that's
obviously what we're going to talk about, i'd be remiss.
I don't talk about politics on this show. The network
doesn't doesn't do politics, and I don't think we have
to talk politically about it. But there was perhaps, as
you mentioned before the show, the JFK event really of
our generation, and that's the barbaric assassination of Charlie Kirk.

(05:57):
Wherever you are on the political spectrum, it should shock
you that a public figure is shot in broad daylight
at a political or you know, a social rally. How
we want, however we want to think about it, and
I do think that the way that you know, MLK
and JFK and RFK are remembered, this isn't going to

(06:22):
be something that goes away. I saw somebody who didn't
like Kirk the other day saying he's going to be
forgotten straight away, He's not going to be forgotten. It's interesting.
I noticed something in my feed incredibly fascinating today is
usually I have a mix of people on both the
left and the right feed usually on this day, September eleven.
Notice how we haven't even talked about that. Normally my

(06:42):
feed is filled with September eleven remembrances. I think I
saw two today. The rest of my feed was essentially
Charlie Kirk in that effect. The effect of that assassination
was so impactful on the national psyche and certainly people
who are probably center to right of center, but even
people on the left who were compassionate. It was so

(07:02):
impactful that we almost we essentially forgot September eleven. Yeah,
that's something.

Speaker 2 (07:09):
Yeah, I noticed the exact same thing where I saw
maybe two or three things about nine to eleven and
then which again we were mentioned before. It's like for
those of us who are a little bit I mean,
I earned the gray on this beard very very honestly
with three kids and my particular job. But that being said,

(07:31):
you know, those of us who were born, you know,
gen X and younger. You know. In many ways, nine
to eleven was our pearl Harbor, and I think this
is gonna end up being the Kenny assassination as far
as impact, and it's yeah, this this has just been
a weird couple of weeks, and this has been the

(07:54):
last a weird couple of days with everything that's happened.
So I think, if anything, my my takeaway from all
of it is the world's always going to be chaotic.
There's always chaos. There's only you know, at the end
of the day, there is only God and that's the
only thing you can really cling to for stability in

(08:16):
a world that is governed by chaos and anarchy and
random chance. And that's and that's the thing we have
to hold on to and cling to because there's nothing
else that's going to do it. And if you know,
that's that's what he clung to, that's what he fought for,

(08:37):
that's what that's what a lot of people are fighting for,
is trying to make this world a better place. And
that's all we can do.

Speaker 3 (08:53):
It's it is something that I think is going to
stay with us for a long time. And I think
we we we we aren't going to even be perhaps
the same going forward as a nation, the same way
we weren't the same going forward after JFK, or we
weren't the same way going forward after Pearl Harbor after
nine to eleven. Anyway, that isn't what the show is
about today. Of course, there's already conspiracy theories floating around,

(09:15):
and it's quite possible. I mean, it's quite positive. That's
why I don't want to point fingers as anybody. I
have no idea who pulled the trigger on Charlie Kirk,
but whoever it was, was an evil person, whatever the purpose.
But we are going to be talking about cover ups
to a degree tonight, and maybe that's as clean as
segue as we can get from such a horrific story
into UFO disclosure, I suppose, which is something that the

(09:38):
UFO community has long, long wanted, and so every time
we have a congressional hearing, and we hadn't had them
for a very long time, in the last three years,
we've had multiple Congressional and Senate hearings, and of course
on Tuesday we had the hearing titled Restoring Public Trust

(10:00):
through UAP Transparency and whistleblower protection, which was kind of
on the aegis of the Committee on Oversight and Government Reform.
Now I've already seen UFO commentators saying this is probably
the most the most impactful hearing so far. What are
just some of your your your takeaways from it, just

(10:20):
off the top of the off the cuff, Chason, it
was the.

Speaker 2 (10:23):
Most I think this was the most impactful, uh, and
probably one of the more one of the that'st things
they've all had. They've all had one or two things
that were really really important that were said and then
glossed over by everyone else because they were looking for
the more spectacular things. But this one had I think
this is one of the few times where one of

(10:44):
the most important things was the spectacular thing that was revealed.
But again, like if you if you sit down and
subject yourself to a congressional hearing, you're going to hear
a lot of bloviating and pointless, pointless blather from people
who should have something better to do. But it was

(11:07):
the big talk is about the video that was the
legitimately new video that is out of the UAP being
split by a hellfire missile, and we can we can
talk about that more in depth later, but that that
really is I think the biggest takeaway from this because

(11:31):
in previous in previous meetings, like I thought, the thing
that everyone sort of walked or sort of glossed over
was the fact that the panel essentially revealed that the
congressional funds that have been allocated for specific programs and
purposes were essentially being stolen and used as part of

(11:56):
this black budget, right, And a lot of people sort
of missed that, and it was like, oh, yeah, no,
because they're looking for the not well non human biologics, right,
And I'm like, okay, yes, that's the that's the flashy
thing that gets everyone everyone's attention. But it's like they
just said that we don't have an actual government, Like

(12:18):
that's literally what we just said. Because our if they
can just take money from that Congress is allocated for
whatever the hell they want to do, we don't have
a government. This is this time. I think that for me,
at least, the big takeaway was this video, and I
think it underscores why we talked about this at the time,

(12:40):
because I think we were still doing mysterious library at
the time, or at least it happened right after when
they made the change from UFO to UAP, we talked
about that and the importance of it, and one of
the things I said is the change from UFO to UAP,
I think is much more telling than we realize, because
they're trying to tell us something with that and prepare

(13:02):
us for a for something that's not on our radar
right now, right because UFO almost I mean not just psychologically,
it's an object. It is it is sort of almost
almost definitionally a craft of some kind, or you could
argue a drone. By calling it a phenomena, you are

(13:26):
opening the door to something much broader and a much
broader understanding of of what's happening, and maybe even having
very different conversations. And we've noticed constantly since that, since
that's happened, how often the conversation has started moving towards interdimensionality.

(13:50):
The again, when we were doing Mysterious Library, the documentary
that move On put out move On, of all people
put out that in the last that the first I
think it was an hour and a half long, Like
the first hour fifteen pretty standard you know, run of
the mill, mainstream UFO stuff, But the last fifteen minutes

(14:13):
got real weird, real fast, and they actually started addressing
hey a lot. Uh. The thing that really stood out
to me was they had done these studies on the
brains of contact ease, and then apparently they were showing
the same signs of brain activity of remote that remote
viewers had and they were discussing interdimensionality. And that was

(14:35):
literally shocking to me to have mof On address it
that way and and even put that information out there.
Because again this is not a knock against anything or
any one, but if there was a mainstream milk toast
in the UFO community, it's gonna be Moofon.

Speaker 3 (14:55):
Yeah. We I think I did the world premiere of
that film that's at mid Wes wid First and Accidental Truth,
and that's probably why we talked about it. And it
was stunning because I'm always suspicious of the mainstream UFO
organizations as just like Ray Palmer was back in the day,
just like people like Alan Greenfeld, who was good friends
with Ray Palmer, remain. There is something suspicious about it,

(15:17):
but I wonder and they didn't touch on it as
much in this hearing, ironically, as obviously the David Grush one,
not that the Congress people touch on it, but Grush,
did this idea of interdimensionality that you were talking about.
It was to me that was the main takeaway, or
one of the main takeaways of the law of the
Grush Congressional Congressional Hearing. You mentioned the video, and we

(15:38):
will play it because we do have to talk about it.
I do think that something I appreciated this hearing more
than I thought I would is I've often watched the
previous hearings and thought that the questions from the members
of Congress have been less than up to speed. They've

(15:59):
seen like they've understood ufology via the X Files and
close Encounters and an article they've read in the New
York Times, you know what I mean, Or maybe they've
watched a couple of you know, TV shows on a
history channel or something, right.

Speaker 2 (16:13):
Not even that it looks like these were questions that
would have been brought up if you'd watched an episode
of Sightings in nineteen ninety eight.

Speaker 3 (16:21):
Absolutely, But this one, this one, the congress people seemed
I mean, I'm going to bring them up so I
remember them because they were a couple. One Jared Moskowitz,
who's a Democrat from Florida, yes, he says he's not
sure what's going on or I'm paraphrasing him, but he
knows that we're being lied to. And I think that's
probably the healthiest position to take. Like the government alling

(16:43):
to he's a member of don't forget the federal government exactly.
We're being lied to, but I don't know what the
heck it is, but we're not being told the truth.

Speaker 2 (16:51):
Yeah, this is the only time and again as a text,
and I can say this that chasmen crack it has
actually made sense and that's a big that's a big
step for her. So yeah, again, there was one there
was one congresswoman I don't even want to address her
who just was the biggest waste of time, uh, in

(17:12):
that in that entire hearing, she was trying to she
was going out of her way to make it overtly
political when that was lady, Yeah, it's like, lady, you
are being told the government you that you aren't the
government you think you're talking about isn't real. That's literally
what they're saying, and it's it is. I forget which

(17:35):
congressman came back and asked a couple of questions that
sort of put her in place. That's all was needed. Uh.
But the simple fact of the matter is they seem Yeah,
this is the first time I've listened to one of
these congressional hearings and thought, Okay, someone actually bothered to
do the research. And I know that annapoline A Luna
did a hit on Rogan.

Speaker 3 (17:57):
Yeah, I watched that show. I was both in pressed
and not impressed.

Speaker 2 (18:01):
We can eat the same same, but at least she
was definitely trying. It had shown that she had actually
been looking at this this material a lot more.

Speaker 3 (18:10):
Because the last time this quickly I think she in
the last hearing, it was either her or Mace, and
I like both of them like as people, I really do,
but I think it was Luna who did a speech
along the lines of Ever since the nineteen forty seven
UFO crash in Roswell, the American public have been asking.
I'm like, well, that totally misunderstands UFO history. That's the

(18:32):
X Files version of UFO history exactly. The American public
forgot all about Roswell from nineteen forty seven up until
nineteen eighty. So, but now both Luna, Mace, all of
these people like Mace asked a question is could this
be a SI of which is such a fantastic question
about the about all of these UFO releases of videos

(18:53):
and everything else, great question.

Speaker 2 (18:56):
Yes, there was some. This was legitimately one of the
better UH hearings. Again, it's still a congressional hearing, and
if you're listening to all two and a half hours
of it, there's something psychologically wrong with you, like you've done,
like you feel like you need to be punished for something.
But that being said, this is one of the few

(19:17):
times when it's they seemed very aware of what was
going on. They were asking much more interesting and insightful questions. So, yeah,
I was. There was one moment where I'm like, I was,
I'm fifty to fifty on. It was actually towards the
very beginning where uh Nap, by the way, hold on,

(19:39):
how in the hell does Nap get what is essentially
an ad read in his introduction by his own congresswoman,
What the heck?

Speaker 4 (19:45):
Was that?

Speaker 2 (19:45):
I was like, what is happening? Like them giving it person.

Speaker 3 (19:50):
Just for those of you the audience you don't know
who George Knapp is, Maybe maybe feel them in because
he's the he's the witness in the middle and really
in many ways with the George knappsh oh, I may.

Speaker 2 (20:00):
Know very much was so okay, if you're watching this channel,
you know who George Knapp is. However, I'll play along.
George Napp is an investigative reporter and out of Los Angeles,
and he's also one of the hosts on Coast to
Coast AM.

Speaker 3 (20:19):
And he broke and he broke the Bubblaza area fifty
one story back in the day. That's kind of can't
agree to stop. You know, he was at the beginning
of this kind of X falls in a paranoid upology.
He was one of the main players.

Speaker 2 (20:30):
Really yeah, so he is, he's at I'm gonna choose
my words appropriately here. He is a very large name
in the community and he's earned that position. He and
like I said, he's an investigative reporter. He's you know,
most people know him from his work on Coast to Coast.
He's done a ton of documentaries on all this. As

(20:54):
Dean mentioned, he you know, he's the reason we know
about bub Blazar and all that. What I found really interesting, again,
aside from the fact that so his congresswoman giving him
the introduction didn't shock me like it's he's literally in
her district. I'm like, that makes again. I know politicians,
I know how they work, Like that makes perfect sense
to me. But she just about did a damn ad

(21:16):
read for his show, and I'm like, what is happening? However,
that being said.

Speaker 3 (21:22):
Just quickly too, I love when George Knapp posts coast
to coast. He's so great. His voice is great, his
questions are great. He's one a heck of a reporter.
I don't always agree with his positions on ufology, but
I do think he's one of the most interesting jealous
who've ever covered it. To be honest, he's entertaining.

Speaker 2 (21:40):
Yes, No, he's definitely entertaining. He knows he's a good
he is a good he is a he's a good
newsman who knows how to do his job. I'll say
it that way. I want to keep a few things
behind the vest for a little bit. Though that having
been said, I was I'm fifty to fifty on at
the very beginning, after he was given try and keep

(22:03):
it pr friendly here his his very odd introduction. Luna
sort of cut him off when he started talking about
the Russian documents and moved on with his intest because
everyone was given some time to introduce themselves make an
opening statement, and she part of me thinks it was

(22:25):
just because she realized Nap is going to consume the
next twenty minutes if we let him talk, if we
don't shut him down.

Speaker 3 (22:31):
Sorry, she switched on. I think that could very well
be the case.

Speaker 2 (22:35):
Yeah, and so I think that's I would like to
defer to that. But the fact that she shuts him
down pretty quick at that moment, I was like, that's weird.
She does grill him on that later, so maybe it is.
It was just a time thing. She recognized that he
was just not going to shut up, but.

Speaker 3 (22:52):
She did get to talk. Yeah, he did get to
talk about it a lot later on, and that was,
to be honest, one of the more again, it's George
Knapp can tell the story better than any other witness.
It's what he's done for a living for decades. So
the Nap presentation was the most interesting as far as storytelling.
His story about smuggling documents out of Russia at the

(23:13):
end of the Cold War, when you know it's all collapsing,
and you know, he takes off the cover pages of
these secret documents in case, you know, customs or immigration.
When he's going out find them, he tucks the cover
pages under his jacket and he throws the rest of
the documents in his suitcase surrounded by caveat to distract them.
And that it's just great storytelling. So Nap was in

(23:34):
that capacity the star of the show. But here I
think later he had he had plenty of time to
tell the story and interesting. I mean, some of that
was super interesting. And I don't think I hadn't heard
this verse before or this story before, but it certainly
fits in with narratives going back some time. And now
it is the drum beaten by grush At. You know,

(23:57):
at another recent UAP hearing the idea that the old
Soviet Union had every every wing of its military taught
to report anything they saw about UFOs, any sighting they had,
anything of all that happened because the USSRS probably wanted

(24:18):
to somehow build and back engineer their own UFO, and
it kind of ties in with grushes even. I suppose
more extreme or out there story that every country going
back to the nineteen thirties had had some UFO retrieval
program and they were pulling them out in Italy and
pulling them out in Germany and Russia and America. And
this is so in that way, I don't think NAPS

(24:41):
sounded quite as extreme, but it fits into this idea
that every country on Earth supposedly has this interest in
somehow getting on top of other countries in some kind
of UFO arms race, you know, and building their own
UFO first.

Speaker 2 (24:57):
Yeah, of course, there's some great questions. I'm flagging them
for later because I think we will naturally actually this one. Yeah,
we'll come back to that one. I still have access
to everything. People like it. Just kicked Dean off.

Speaker 3 (25:11):
Whenever, as you should. You're an honorary member of the network,
my friend.

Speaker 2 (25:14):
Yeah, exactly, Yeah, Yeah, he tells a really great story
with that. And I think probably the Russian stuff is
the second tier of the most important stuff that was
said this time, because I think the most important really
is legitimately the video, because I think it very very

(25:34):
directly connects to why it's called a UAP now. And
but yeah, I mean the Russian stuff particularly, and I
think there was I don't think we talked about this
on this channel. One of the things that came out
of the Kennedy assassination papers, because you know, Bettel had
always said the reason that a lot of these Kennedy

(25:58):
documents were being withheld was not for the reasons we thought, right,
like everyone sort of expected there'd be like a file
folder with Kennedy. We did it right, and it just
lists everything that happens, like, that's not how that was
ever gonna work. But a lot of those documents were
being held back because it showed how the CIA was
doing things. But one of the things that came out
was this document about how Kennedy was working with the

(26:20):
Russians in order to try and say, hey, we don't
want to start World War three over you know, these
UFO encounters and somehow they think it's us, we think
it's them, and we start launching nukes. And that was
I think that was one of those things where it's like, hey, guys,
how the CIA is doing things with NGOs and a

(26:42):
lot of these charities. That's really why a lot of
those documents were held back. But this one was very specifically, like, no,
the UFO phenomena is very very real, and they were
panicking about it. At the same time they were telling
everyone there's nothing to it. They were panicking and they
were trying to make certain that we didn't go to
nuclear war over these things. And so the stories that
Napp was telling about how like these things were trying

(27:05):
to were somehow hacking into the Russian systems.

Speaker 3 (27:09):
Yeah, I see dm like in a kind of missile sites.
I've heard stories like that about American in a kind
of ballistic missile sites being hacked by UFOs. I'm not
sure if the one Napper told has been told previously.
It may have been, I couldn't remember. But the idea
that UFOs were interfering with both us, which we already

(27:30):
heard about multiple times. I think there's a there's a
number of books from the eighties nineties that talked about
that quite extensively, about the American problem of you know,
UFOs over our silos and then being shut down and
weird things happening. But there was a Russian equivalent as
well that. Yeah, that was certainly another interesting part of
the of the hearing.

Speaker 2 (27:50):
Yeah, I think that was that one was new to me.
I think the problem is it's such a it's a
story that's so similar to a lot of things that
we've heard here in the US. It's like I was like,
is this really a new story or is this just.

Speaker 3 (28:03):
Yeah, I thought I heard this one before, Like if
I had the Russian one before, I've had so many
of these.

Speaker 2 (28:08):
Yeah, no, exactly. I want to get to horses. Second
question real quick, because since it's a little bit more
about Nap, he says, in covering a story, Napp sometimes
seems too close to his witnesses to be regarded as
an independent reporter that has advantages but drawbacks. All right,
I'll go ahead and say what I and say this again,

(28:30):
this is not a statement against Nap by any stretch
of the imagination. My problem with a lot of this is,
and yes, that does involve what happened today, right, we
have too much evidence that a lot of really big
names in the UFO community are either directly or either

(28:56):
actually themselves agents of the United States government or have
been uh co opted by them with their knowledge and
many without. Dean can speak to this very very well.
I would not, So it's I don't necessarily look at
Nap and say he's someone who is knowingly in on anything.

(29:19):
I think he's Again, there's no way to know. I
like to try and treat everyone as if they're unless
I'm given a reason to believe they're lyings, address everyone
as if they're telling, as if they believe what they
are saying, until I have reason to doubt it. He
has not. He's never given me a reason to doubt it.
I do have reason to question whether or not he's

(29:42):
been captured by the government narrative in way and is
being manipulated with particular stories to say what they once said.

Speaker 3 (29:55):
Well play, I mean captured could be like I mean,
it implies different things with you. Whether it means that
somehow he could be, you know, a conscious agent of disinformation,
which I don't think is the case. But is it
possible to be an unconscious agent of disinformation? I'm sure
most of eupology for the last fifty years, sixty seventy years,

(30:16):
has been an unconscious, unconscious agent of disinformation. We know
that from William Moore's revelations at the Muphon Symposium back
in nineteen eighty nine, where he admitted to being an
AFOSI asset and admitted to poisoning the UFO well and
spying on eupologists and feeding the information back to the

(30:36):
Air Force. And this is the guy who introduces the
Roswell story to the American public. This is the guy
who introduces the idea of underground bases, essentially at Dulci
and places like that. This is the person who creates,
through his writings with a small cadre of other people,
basically what we think of is X files, UFO belief

(30:58):
you know, crash sources, al narratives, the MG twelve documents.
All of this comes from William Moore, a guy who
admits at the eighty nine symposium that I was a
paid Air Force asset. So has the entire UFO community,
to to a lesser or greater degree, been poisoned by disinformation?
And are they acting not intentionally to be disingenuous, but

(31:22):
are they acting in a manner of being disinformation agents
without even knowing they are? Absolutely, and could that apply
to George Knapp as well? Absolutely, it could apply to
any of these people. And now, being so central in
getting the Bobblerzar story out there, you know, I was

(31:43):
conscious of I was conscious of how much all of
these stories have impacted the narrative. I really liked Tim
burkehet by the way, the the Republican from Tennessee Republican Tennessee,
Tennessee but he talked about Roswell in this hearing like
it was a given that there was an extraterrestrial craft

(32:04):
that crashed at Roswell. He didn't even explain it. He's
just like, well, you mean the Lockheed Martin had these
Roswell And it's like, we're really putting the cart before
the horse when we're doing these type of investigations and
we're approaching them on the assumption that Roswell was a
genuine extraterrestrial crash, and there's all kinds of reasons and
there was even one. There's lots of different reasons and

(32:25):
lots of different theories why this might have been something
very different to an extraterrestrial crash. But when we're putting
that forward is we're basing our questions and our approach
and our understanding of what's going on in all of
these deals between between Lockheed Martin and you know and
Bigelow and all this stuff. Oh, this must be because

(32:46):
they've got the roight Like, then you fall in do
the same trap that William Moore intentionally guided ufology and
to it. It's very dangerous.

Speaker 2 (32:57):
Yeah. One of my favorite quote from Deep Space nine,
by the way, can I upped my gains. I'm hoping
that helps you out a little bit. One of my
favorite quotes from DS nine is I believe in coincidences.

(33:17):
Coincidences happen every day, but I don't trust coincidences. And
George Knapp and again, it could just be right place,
right time kind of a situation, right, But him being
in Las Vegas and all of the the Nevada Las
Vegas connection to a lot of this material bothers me. Again,

(33:40):
it is it makes perfect sense that if they're there
and he just happens to be there again, right place,
right time, luck is a big thing for all of life.
I just don't trust coincidences. And again, I I don't
look at George Nap and think I don't trust him
because he's disinformation at all. I look at George Napp

(34:03):
and I wonder, is how convenient is he seems like
a convenient person to launder material through. He thinks he's
getting real material, And what he's doing is again just
relaying information that they want out there in the way
they want it relayed. Because you can give something that's

(34:25):
ninety percent truth, but there's a kernel of an untruth
in there, and that one untruth could shape and turn
how you're facing something. And so again we've been talking
about the video. I could let's go ahead and play
the video because I do want to answer to go

(34:48):
to Horace's first question, which I think is really really
on the nose, because Horace is awesome. But let's do
the video because again, this is one of those things
where this is probably the biggest thing to come out
of this hearing, and I think it underpins the conversation
we've been having about UAPs the whole time.

Speaker 3 (35:06):
And I think for why we need to play it
obviously because it's a very interesting video, and I will
just set it up a little bit with explaining what
people are about to see. I was luck. I actually
got this from Ian Steven of Alien Wisconsin, who I
played a film if vis at the festival at Midwest Weird. First,

(35:26):
you should go check out his channel anybody wh's listening
Alien Wisconsin. He's very thorough, he's very talented, and I
couldn't find a download link for it myself. I knew
he had it because I know he's on top of
everything that can you send it to me? And he
said he also got given this information. I'm assuming by
people in the know, and he said, this is a
drone video taken off the coast of Yemen on October thirty,

(35:49):
twenty twenty four. It was filmed by a us MQ
nine Riper drone. I'll show you an image of what
that looks like in a minute. It's as large as
an airplane. You're also going to see a missile well
fired at what we're going to see, and that's a
special type of anti airplane missile, and it was fired
from a different us m Q nine Reaper drone. So

(36:10):
basically what we have in this situation is two Reaper
drones tracking an unidentified aerial phenomena a UFO as we
probably would prepare to see, prefer to say, this is
what those drones look like. You can see they're not
like tiny little drones. They're like a serious piece of

(36:33):
military hardware which are weaponized and can do all kinds
of all kinds of incredible and terrible things. So I'll
play there. I'll cue the video now, and we'll play
it and then we can dissect it maybe after we've
looked at it, and even play it again if we
have to.

Speaker 2 (36:54):
Since this is still and there's an audio version of
this will narrate it a little bit. For those who
are listening on audio.

Speaker 3 (37:00):
Sure, okay, well let's let's get ready to watch and
here it goes in about two seconds.

Speaker 2 (37:10):
So for those who are listening on audio, what you
have is I believe it's a Flear video. So it's
black and white, and there is a what looks like
again tic tac shape. Right, it's moving at some at
a sizeable speed over the over the ocean near Yemen,

(37:31):
and a hellfire missile just went through it. So the
hellfire missile didn't explode, it went through the object. The
object spins around like it's made out of a fluid.
Three different orbs or particular matter come out of it,

(37:51):
but they continue on their trajectory as it had before,
seemingly unfhazed.

Speaker 3 (37:58):
Yeah, let's play it against people can see it. Notice,
So when it's traveling kind of in I guess the
bullseye in the middle of the or the or the
framing device in the middle of the screen, you'll see
something come from the top left hand corner and kind
of shoot through it and it kind of changes the
trajectory of the object. And then as Jason said, it

(38:19):
looks like three other objects. You would think maybe they
were debris if it was only a still image, But
those three other objects that come out of it continue
to travel with it, which is super strange. So let's
let let let's play that again.

Speaker 2 (38:36):
And the thing that's really again this is why it's
really shocking. It doesn't move through it like it isn't there.
The object, its trajectory is is affected and it moves
as if it's like Jello.

Speaker 3 (38:49):
And it's about to come to hit. They're about to
see it, right, We're almost there, and there we go boom,
and then then it pans out and you see it
continue to travel. So it gets hit by this hill
fire missile. It doesn't get destroyed, but three pieces come

(39:11):
off and continue to travel with it. Super strange.

Speaker 2 (39:14):
I mean, yeah, its behavior would indicate that this was
again almost like a contained liquid, not not something made
out of out of materials that we would use in
This underlies again why I think the whole change to
UAP was was so deliberate. What geez, six seven years

(39:36):
now that we've been living with this UAP instead of
UFO again at the time we talked about this, This
is a I think this was a very deliberate change
that people were It was being reframed as they're not
at least not all of them are craft. And the
way we would think of this. The question I was

(39:58):
waiting for somebody to ask, but nobody ever did it
is this, could we be dealing with a a life form,
not a craft, not a drone, not something manufactured, but
could we could we be dealing with a life form
something that is organic or at least organic in a

(40:18):
I mean again, it may not may not be something
that is how would spot say it? Like life? Just
not as we know it, right, It may not be
organic in the way that we that we would think
of something organic, but something that really fall under the
idea of natural life rather than a created craft. And

(40:39):
what's really telling is the hell fire missile that you
see hit it like it's again, it looks like a
little small elongated tic tac that hits it. This is
not a small object that they were tracking. This is
a pretty sizable object that gets hit. So you know
this is this is sort of why I want the

(41:00):
perfect time to bring up horses question.

Speaker 3 (41:04):
There just quickly too, before you bring that up. There
certainly been ufologists who suggested that these things might be
somehow living beings unknown in our upper atmosphere. Trevor James
Constable was a very famous eupologists who talked about that.
There's a wonderful website called the Living Sky I think

(41:24):
dot com which still tracks that type of information. Kenneth Arnold,
the most famous UFO witness arguably of all time, who
out of his experience, comes out our original terminology long
before UAP, long before UFO. A flying saurceer who saw
nine crescent shaped objects flying past Mount Rainier in Washington

(41:46):
date when he was piloting his private plane back in
June of twenty four, nineteen forty seven. He later in
his life thought that these things may have been some
type of biological life form. So it's interesting that you
bring that up because it isn't a position which is
often presented in ufology. But there have been, there have
been individuals, well respected individuals within the UFO community. You

(42:10):
have presented that hypothesis as anyway, Yeah, to Horace's question
that you wanted.

Speaker 2 (42:15):
To show, well, no, yeah, And I'm glad you pointed
out again this is not a new thought to me, right,
but just seeing it when you see the videos like
that really should be at least a question Again that
does that mean that's the most obvious answer? No, But
is that at least a question that should be asked. Yeah,

(42:38):
because that's the fact that it behaves like a liquid
would sort of indicate that we're dealing with something else entirely,
which brings us to I think one of the best
questions that I've gotten in a long time. Of course,
it would be from Wars, because we were talking about
how often the word interdimensional had been pulled up and
brought into this conversation on the government level, which we

(43:02):
find it very odd. Horse says, is there, however, any
real definition as to what interdimensionality really means? And this
is something I've talked about for a while, Dean, I've
discussed this publicly. No, there isn't, and that's inter you know,

(43:22):
the whole interdimensional conversation in a lot of ways, is
very similar to the question of the quantum Bigfoot, which, again,
no hate to anybody like this is this is just
an observation. My problem is I think there's a lot
of times there are I call them star trek words
where there is a scientific at least sounding word that's

(43:43):
thrown on something to make to sort of give it
a degree of credibility, and maybe on some level there's
a workable familiarity with the word, but it doesn't actually
necessarily have the meaning that we would think it would, right,
Like we don't necessarily understand what dimensions even are from

(44:04):
you know, in a in a true academic sense, Like
as far as these conversations have being had, most people
think of interdimensionality. They're thinking, okay, like another dimension, like
you know the Marvel movies where there's an alternate you know,
Doctor Strange, there's an alternate flash, and it's like, that's
not really what's being discussed here, right.

Speaker 3 (44:27):
I think it gets lost in that sometimes. So it's
interesting because I take Horace's point, and Horace Smith's the
Emorus Professor of Astronomy and Physics from Michigan State University.
For anybody who watches the show regularly, he's been a
guest and he's regularly in the chat with very insightful questions.
I think that one of the problems with the interdimensional

(44:48):
hypothesis that maybe Horace is poking at is that its
meaning is so it can be ephemeral. But I think
the way that it's often met, and this is the
cheapening of it. I think when if we hear a
congress person asking about interdimensionality, or if we hear you know,
your average talk show hosts talking about it, or thrown

(45:11):
out there even in a lot of the UFO literature,
it's just an alternative way of saying extraterrestrial, meaning they're
not from out of space, but they're the same. They're
not from another planet, they just come from another dimension
and they fly here and at their spaceships from another dimension.
But it doesn't acknowledge the weirdness that I think into
dimensionality is a concept might actually suggest. I think that

(45:36):
I think there were thinkers Raymond Palmer being one of them,
John Keel being another one of them, Patrick Harp of
Jacques Villeda or a degree that thought that these things
operated differently to the reality that we were in, and
they were from a different reality or a different mode
of being. In many of the ways that older religious

(45:59):
traditions talked about this, the way that older gnostic traditions
and Neoplatonist traditions talked about there being other truths beyond
the sphere that we were inside of, and you, and
that's a great tie into biblical reality as well, that
there are these things that can interject or inject themselves
into our reality, but then they can leave. And to me,

(46:22):
when I think the best use of interdimensional, even though
it's confusing to a degree, if you start to try
to get into the application of physics and different dimensions
and string theory and brain theory and all this other stuff.
When I if I was to use the term interdimensional,
which I don't think I do that often, I probably
do occasionally, I tend to mean that these things don't

(46:42):
come from our normal three dimensional physically you know, constrained reality.
They come from out there and they inject into it.
And I think that's the way most of the writers.
I can't speak for them, although having read most of
their stuff I probably do a degree can I think
that's the way most people have thought of these things
being different to us and somehow leaking into our system

(47:05):
of also meant it. So when interdimensional is used like well,
they're just coming through the another dimension, flying in portal
through their flying sources, that to me is a cheapening
of the concept that these things are stranger and weirder.
And when they interact with us. They interact in the
way that science fiction authors like Philip K. Dick have
talked about alien intelligence is interacting us. It's far more anyway.

(47:27):
I don't know if that answers Horace's question, but that's
I think that's the best way of looking at an
alternative interpretation of where this stuff comes from. It's something
we can't really even wrap our heads around because it's
not from here.

Speaker 2 (47:39):
Yeah, and that's very much the point I was I
was getting to, and I love again you said it
better than I did. I was more focusing on the
fact that this is sort of a star trek word
that has that's familiar, but it has no but it's
not really defined in any significant way. We don't really
understand what it is we're talking about. And so your point,

(48:02):
it's it is treated very cheaply, and it's because we
may be dealing with things that are again this is
you put me in Giorgio Sucolos at a table. I'm
going to agree this phenomena. It goes all the way
back to the beginning. We've interacted with this stuff forever.

(48:23):
I just think that this is the modern interpretation of
it is just another interpretation of it, and we may
not be anywhere, we may not be any closer to
understanding it at all. In fact, I would suggest we
may have been close to the first time that that
you you know a lot of this people talk about
quantum physics that again they can't do or even understand,

(48:43):
or interdimensionality is usually just a way to skirt using
the words supernatural. That's really all this is. And I would,
and I would, I would take it one step further.
I think we have this, and we can we imagine that,
if we can, if we can explain it, it's no
longer supernatural. Well that's not necessarily the best way to

(49:05):
think of it either. It's this, this entire phenomena is
interacting with this very In fact, one of one of
the key things that it really stuck in my head
was one of the eyewitnesses. I forget which one it was.
I think it was. Was it Nisa Kelly? Who would

(49:25):
they noticed the thing like he was? He was with
other police officers. I think they're all MP's. They noticed it.
Once they noticed it, it came to investigate them and
moved over his house. Specifically, he fled outside. He goes
I don't know why, but it's like it he speculates
that it knew they were watching him or that, or

(49:48):
let me phrase it it right, the the ball of
light recognized that they recognized it, and so it behaved
because it recognized it was being observed by them.

Speaker 3 (50:00):
That's like the old kid the quote in the Mothman
Prophecies of the of one of the two John Keel
type characters, because one is obviously Richard Geeb, but the
more sophisticated rioter who already understands it is Alexander Leak.
And he says, they noticed you because they noticed, you know,
you notice them, or words to that extent. And I

(50:20):
wonder how much of this is some phenomenon waiting for
us to notice, waiting or wanting us to engage and
just very quickly. I think that's one of the greatest
failings of all of this. And this is this is
one of the things when we were talking about, when
we were talking about miss Luna's or missus Luna's appearance

(50:42):
on Joe Rogan, is even these hearings kind of, you know,
demonstrate this. There's this idea that the US governments or
as another interesting thing, there's so much to talk about.
We're not going to get to all, but some of
this has been pawned off to the private sector. Now
like locking Martin came up. Yes, But the idea that somehow,

(51:05):
either the US intelligence agencies, the US military, or the
private sector that services you know, these kind of industries
or the industries that service these kind of forces, that
somehow the secrets are there. If we just keep knocking
on the doors and riding the right legislation and getting
the right witnesses, it's, oh, we're going to know. It's roswell,

(51:25):
you know. But to me, that's an incredibly naive interpretation
of a phenomenon which we have no idea what it is.
This this expectation that the US government knows, or elements
within the US government, or elements within the greater public
slash private, you know, military industrial complex of this country.

(51:47):
It's already known what the sources are. This is a madness.
There's so many things which suggest that there's nobody knows
what any of this stuff is, right, But to think
that this is our main way of pursuing some type
of you know, incredible truth is by pounding hard enough
and getting enough you know, of these investigations and going

(52:10):
into enough government skiffs and redrafting enough whistleblower legislation, we're
gonna get there. We're gonna find out about UFOs. Well,
if we're lucky, we'll find out that things like the
tic TAC video were just some US you know, or
Lockey Martin experiments or something. Right, we might find that
out if we're lucky, If we're lucky, but we're not
going to get to the base of something which shares
so much with every other paranormal phenomenon we've had since

(52:33):
biblical times. Yeah, if the government doesn't have the answer
to this, there are probably experiences who have a better
idea of what's going on than the US government.

Speaker 2 (52:43):
To be frank, Yeah, I think this is what in
many ways, I think the disclosure conversation is is it's
more of a faith that in Okay, I think that

(53:04):
the extreme conspiracy theorists where the extreme sort of conspiracy
theorist m J twelve the government knows everything, and the
I think you'd argue that, you know, you could say
the radicles and left with the government is is evil
in the control Like there's both sides of the same coin,
which is the idea that the government is competent and

(53:25):
understands what's happening. I think in many ways this conversation
needs to be had if we need to change a
lot of these assumptions and narratives that we have clearly
been fed. I think the problem is there's elements of
this entire conversation where clearly the UFO community was manipulated

(53:46):
to hide government technology and things that we've been working
on in secret and honestly, Operation paper Clip. We've had
this conversation at nauseum. So I want to take that
next step is the stuff that is legitimately weird. There
is legit untimately you know, probably esoteric to an extent
they may not understand, which may be why they're like,

(54:07):
we don't want to talk about this because I can't
believe South Park is coming up again this week. You know,
they did their a video of nine to eleven truthers,
and essentially at the end of it they reveal that
the nine to eleven truth or movement was actually put
out by the government because they're like, we wanted people

(54:28):
to think that we were still in charge. Because the
terrifying thought is, in many ways it's far more comforting
to think that you're just being and again with the
problem is we are being lied to, but that the
government knows, but they're lying to us. That is somehow
more comforting than the most powerful military force that has
ever existed, with the most advanced technology that has ever

(54:48):
been created, has no freaking clue what's going on in
many in many ways for a lot of people, that
is the reality may be far more terrifying that we
don't know. And so again, does that mean they don't know, No,
it just means it just means that we need to

(55:10):
stop assuming they understand what's going on right that. Here's
a great example, the glob tic tac that I'm gonna
call it could very well be an extension of a
plasmoid based technology. Plasmoid has a medical term, biological organic term,

(55:35):
but it's also the sort of the functional word about
people that they have discussed this concept of a form
of electronics spoofing where we generate a plasmoid mean look
like plasma for a state of matter in space that
is controlled by lasers, and then we can control its movement.
The idea is you could create these things, send them

(55:58):
on their way. They are visible, the ir would recognize them.
Radar recognizes them because there is something tangibly there, so
that an enemy's systems would see it, and you would
scramble your fighters and your air dethne systems to attack
the you know, a fleet of twenty plasmoids that are
coming in one direction, and then your stell fighters and

(56:19):
bombers come in from the other direction and hit the targets,
and they're safe, right because you have you've confused them
as to what that is. Could that be what was
seen there? Maybe I don't know. I would never pretend
to know, but we also can't rule that out either.
So was this organic? Was this a US military plasmoid?

(56:42):
Was this again something that is so far afield from
our understanding of physics that we don't actually we couldn't
even verbalize what it is in the same way that
if you went back six hundred years ago before the
invention of the microscope, you couldn't verbalize back interior to somebody.
You couldn't do it. You couldn't verbalize germ theory to

(57:05):
anybody in any meaningful way, because it's not it's an existence.
It was a level of existence that wasn't on the
table yet all this may represent a level of existence
and organ in biological organisms that are just something that's
not on our radar yet. But maybe the problem is

(57:27):
it's been on a radar the whole time. We just
didn't want to deal with it in the modern world
because it implied a larger reality that we that has
theological implications, and that's and the thing is that may
not be a realm that science can even poke at,
which is probably scarier to many people. So there you go.

Speaker 3 (57:52):
I like your point of plasma might, of course have
very good friend Donny Cho made a joke about I
could have sworn Jason made up the word plasmoid. But
what I find fascinating with you recognizing that and probably
other people recognizing it too, is that one of my
favorite authors, Philip K. Dick, towards the end of his life,

(58:15):
had what can only be described as paranorma or supernatural experiences.
And we won't go into the details now. I've talked
about them on other shows, but he believed that valus,
as he termed it, or zebra. Valous stood for vast
articulate living intelligent system or ZEBRA because it could do
this this kind of camouflage stuff, but he believed that

(58:35):
was a living plasmid. So when you see that thing
come apart when it shot. And I do think that
Dick had some type of genuine experiences. Philip K. Dick
was a Gnostic Christian. He thought that there was deeper
realities like the type I was talking about injecting themselves
into this reality. And I when I think about the

(58:59):
UFO for and it's difficult not to think about Dick's
experiences in his own nonfictional writings, which weren't published until
after his death. They won't even publish I think til
the nineteen nineties is full exegesis. I think a smaller
version of been published with one edition of Valus. But
he said that Valus seemed to him to be very

(59:19):
much like the UFO phenomenon. Now I'm here, now I'm there,
flittering all over the place, now I'm this, now I'm that,
you know, And there was some incredible wisdom in Dick's
understanding of what his experiences might have been and might
have been. He wasn't He would never totally nail down
what he thought it was because he didn't know. And

(59:40):
that's one of the strengths of it as well. But
this description of some plasmat force that we don't quite understand,
or plansmoid or whatever terminology we want to use, maybe
those things are far closer to the truth than some
you know, technological roswell crash. And it's interesting to another
one of the witnesses, which we haven't talked about when
running out of time, but Dylan balland who I guess

(01:00:02):
is the new He's the main whistleblower really of this.
And I'm not sure how impressed I was or I
wasn't with his with his testimony, but he talked about
having seen a one hundred foot equilateral triangle craft which
he described as either being fluid or dynamic metallic like

(01:00:22):
its body, and he went on to talk about how
he'd been, you know, harassed by various agencies, and how
now he was unemployed and unemployment benefits and how that
he kind of you know, talking about these things had
been problematic, and his experiences with with with Arrow had
also been See we could do the show for hours

(01:00:42):
because Arrow came into it as well. Of course, that
all don't main Anomaly Resolution Office and the ex head
of it as well, the physicist Sean Kirkpatrick was criticized,
and of course that's actually what's meant to be an
office of the US it's part of the Office of
the US Defense Department right there. Independent investigation the UFOs

(01:01:06):
and UFO whistleblowers. But there was a lot of there
was a lot of things which weren't nice said about
Arrow or a number of things in this hearing. So
it's like that there was some infighting between these agencies
of aiming for disclosure or not as well. Anyway, I'll
let you have the last word, because we could talk

(01:01:27):
for another two hours and we don't have another two hours.

Speaker 2 (01:01:29):
Yeah, no, yeah, very much. So this is a there
was a lot said, and I would say that the
easiest wrap up is we should not necessarily. It's very
clear the United States federal government does not want It
has its own agenda with all of this, and many

(01:01:53):
people have butted up against whatever that agenda is. And
I would suggest that even the conversations being had right now,
even though it is very not anti but it is
it is, it is very directed and antagonistic towards what's
been happening. I would just say, don't fall into the
trap that that conversation. That means the conversation we're having

(01:02:15):
now is as honest and forthright as we would like
it to be. You know, this is a we are
talking about a government that has one hundred that is
probably billion countless billions of dollars and sixty years to
learn about psychological operations by doing inhuman experiments. They know

(01:02:36):
how to manipulate a story to tell us and lead
us in a direction that they find useful. So I
would just say it is worth the listen except for
congress Womanly that was the most that was the biggest
waste of time. But it is worth listening to and

(01:02:57):
keeping impressive. But just don't fall into the trap of
well these everything these people are saying is true, because
even if they are, even if everyone on that panel
is one hundred percent honest, it doesn't mean that they
are giving you act the facts. It just means they
are giving you what they what they know from their perspective,

(01:03:18):
and that could and that perspective can be just as
manipulated as anything else. We just don't know. We have
to take hold all this with an open hand and
just be very cognizant of what you're hearing and how
you're hearing it and from whom you're hearing it. Not
because these are that anyone on that panel is lying.
I would never I don't think any of them are.

(01:03:39):
But that doesn't mean what we that our conclusions about
what they're saying is right either, And so just be
cognizant that this is this may the answers to all
this may be something that isn't on the table right
now because we just don't even we don't even understand
the universe we live in horse and I've had minor
conversations about this online. A lot of string theory right

(01:04:04):
now is coming under fire because it has yet to
yield a lot.

Speaker 1 (01:04:08):
Of the.

Speaker 2 (01:04:10):
A lot of the the thought that the ideas that
it would it would tielight these things together, it's proven
almost fruitless. So it's entirely possible that we that we
we still don't even understand what this is right now,
much less with something else is. So let's just hold
all of this with an open hand, and let's be

(01:04:30):
skeptical of everything that we're hearing, because the universe may
be much stranger in this phenomena, may be much stranger
than we are giving it credit for. And that may
and that may be what's keeping us from advancing.

Speaker 3 (01:04:44):
Very very well, said Jason. You know what we forgot
to do at the beginning of the show, I think
because we were both so down with both doctor Jeff
Meldrums passing and of course to the hideous assassination of
Charlie Kirk, we forgot to talk about something that we
had genuine really excited about it, Yes, which is coming
up this weekend, but the following temp been nineteen to

(01:05:06):
twenty in Richmond, Missouri, and that's the Crossing Realms Conference.

Speaker 2 (01:05:11):
Yes, so my friends, you know, some of y'all may
have known and loved them texts Wess and even Donnie
Cho Bigfoot, Michigan Rob Paranormal, Paul the Blondes, The Booze
and Monica Rawlins and even Randy Gilbert, you know, truth

(01:05:32):
and ten Foyl my favorite tech troll. We are putting
on the Crossing Rooms conference. And who might be in
attendance as a speaker revealing and showing his award winning
short version of the Man Who've Been in the Flying
Saucer because the real documentary is coming out eventually that's
gonna be amazing. But none other than the man sitting

(01:05:55):
right there, doctor Dean Bertram. You are going to get
to hear from him live and see his video with
your very own eyeballs, and it's gonna be amazing. And
not just him, We've got Josh Hurd, We've got all
kinds of people coming and it's it's going to be
a really great time. You can see me and you
can meet me, you can poke text with the stick

(01:06:16):
and you know.

Speaker 3 (01:06:19):
The reality is, I encourage people to do this. So
many of my best friends on the planets. I haven't
met you yet, you already are, but I'll be meeting
you there. People that I've met at science fiction well
science fiction you know, film festivals, or horror festivals or
genre film festivals, or paranormal conventions. Like literally my friend list,

(01:06:42):
the people I'm super close to, people that in this
space that I never would have met if it hadn't
been for festivals and conventions. And that's because in our
day to day lives, whatever we do, the chance of
bumping into somebody that shares a passionate interest in all
things strange, right, it's not that regular. You might I mean,

(01:07:03):
you might like meet somebody who kind of likes Bigfoot
or kind of watches ancient aliens or something. But to
find somebody who's likely as into it as you are.
If you're watching this show or listening to this show
or other shows in this space, all right, it's pretty
rare in your day to day, but at a place
like this, you'll meet people with common interest and they

(01:07:25):
it literally can be life changing. And I don't say
that to try to get people to go to crossing Realms.
I say because it's happened to me. The last paranormal
convention I was at was a Milwaukee para con I
already have. I have three amazing friends now from that
convention that I never would have met, including Ian Stephen,
who sent me the the video of the drone being

(01:07:47):
shot at or the drone shooting at the UFO Tonite.
That's because they went to that convention. Now he's a
great friend and a great asset in you know, my
own investigations and interest in this space. Not to mention
running film festivals from as two decades, the amount of
people who are my best friends who I've met there.
So I encourage anybody who's in the Missouri area or
even if you want to travel for a day, like

(01:08:07):
I am, like, I'm driving ten hours to get there
or something. It could really Yeah, if you want, Jason
is traveling that far as well. The people there you
could very well become lifelong friends with. In fact, I'll
be really surprised if I don't meet people there who
are going to become friends for the rest of my life.
Very surprised, because it always happens.

Speaker 2 (01:08:27):
Yeah. No, Dean is right. If you're within driving, this
is again ten you're an American. Ten hours is a commute.
Dang it. Coming out. The tickets are cheap. I want
you to come and meet and meet your your you know,
meet all of us in person, Recognize that we are
real people. We're not a you know, AI and a

(01:08:48):
hangout and Dean, you know, let's all be buddies for us.
SERVI lives. I want to break even. Dang it. You
come and buy like three tickets, Buy three tickets and
give them to random kids on the street and be like, Hey,
I'll experience weird, weird crap for a couple of hours.
It'll make you, it'll put hair on your chest or something,
you know, but yeah, come out, have fun. It'll be
it'll be great. It'll be it's gonna be amazing. This

(01:09:11):
is this is the I would suggest this is going
to end up being one of the biggest, not biggest
per se as far as numbers, but I think it's
gonna be one of the most impactful, uh, because this
is in many ways we're having conversations at this convention
that people aren't having anywhere else. So be there, b
Square and Beino from OZ grow that Beard join us.

Speaker 3 (01:09:36):
I'm gonna play the teaser trailer for Crossing Realms, which
is Doug Hicheck, who is obviously the mastermind behind the
Untied Radio Network and also was the creator of Monster Quest.
He's also, through this network, one of the main, if
not I think, the main sponsor of the festival. So
I'll play an amazing little clip for it to encourage

(01:09:58):
you all to come, and then Jason I will come
back and say good body all.

Speaker 4 (01:10:01):
Crossing Realms Conference is coming this September nineteenth and twentieth
to the Eagleton Civic Center in Richmond, Missouri. Tickets to
this landmark event are on sale right now at event bright.
The powerful speaker lineup will cover topics from Bigfoot, UFOs
and aliens, so you will not want to miss attending
this amazing two day inaugural event again. That's the Crossing

(01:10:22):
Realms Conference this September nineteenth and twentieth at the Eagleton
Civic Center in Richmond, Missouri. Please mark your calendar and
get your tickets before they vanish. Space is limited.

Speaker 3 (01:10:33):
Yeah, it's going to be. It's going to be one
heck of a weekend. And I encourages many of you
who can to get there.

Speaker 2 (01:10:41):
Absolutely see y'all there.

Speaker 3 (01:10:44):
And until I see you next Jason, which will be
at Crossing Realms again September nineteen to twenty in Richmond, Virginia,
and until I see see I want to say Virginia
because of Richmond. Who doesn't want to say in Virginia Richmond, Missouri.
In fact, I was at a I was at another festival.
I couldn't get to Genre Blast because my daughter had

(01:11:05):
had ice surgery like a week or so ago, where
shave a mystery which I'm playing one best documentary for
the ninth time at the festival run. But so I
got super I got super confused because that was in
I think Winchester, Virginia, and this is in Richmond, Missouri.
So to have your next two screenings being in Richmond Richmond, Richmond,

(01:11:28):
Missourra and Winchester, Virginia. Becomes incredibly complicated.

Speaker 2 (01:11:33):
Yes that for anyone. I imagine it's worse for you
being an Aussie.

Speaker 3 (01:11:39):
Of course, because we're mildly touched. But to try that
again until I get to see you a little over
a week's time in Richmond, Missouri, crossing REALM September nineteen
to twenty, Jason, until I get to hopefully see everybody else,
same weird time. In fact, it's the new weird time,
because we've just moved from Tuesdays at nine pm to

(01:11:59):
Thursdays at ze pm. But definitely the same weird network,
the untold Radio network, which will be next week. Please
keep it weird, m