Talking Weird #152 Is Bigfoot Flesh & Blood? With Vincent Richardson

Vincent Richardson is a paranormal investigator, paranormal sketch artist, and content creator with extensive experience in the world of the unexplained. As the former producer for YouTube channel Beyond Explanation and Phantoms and Monsters Radio, Vincent has created and overseen shows covering topics such as Bigfoot, UFOs, and conspiracy theories.

Vincent hosted the show V diving into some of the most mysterious and controversial subjects in the paranormal realm. With a unique blend of investigative skills and artistic talent , Vincent brings the unknown to life through detailed sketches and indepth research, offering a fresh perspective on the strange, the eerie, and the supernatural.

You can contact Vincent at: [e-mail]

Vincent visits with Talking Weird for a controversial episode. He'll be addressing the question: Is Bigfoot flesh & blood? Or is something even more anomalous stalking North American woods and minds? He'll also be chatting about other "cryptids", UFOs, and the paranormal. This is a fascinating show, that you do not want to miss!

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
The paranormal, UFOs, monsters, mysteries that you're listening to Talking
Weird and know from the Kevin Deep in the northwards
your host, Doctor Dean.

Speaker 2 (00:14):
Bertram, Greetings, or my fellow weirdos and widows, Welcome to

(00:45):
Talking Weird on the un Told Radio Network. I'm your host,
Jean Bertram, and in whatever part of the world or
whatever part of this great country you are in tonight, welcome.
Whether you're listening to me live on Facebook or on
or on YouTube, or maybe you're watching the show archived
on one of those sites after the fact Tuesday night,

(01:05):
nine pm every Central Central, rather we go live every Tuesday,
or maybe you're listening to the show on any of
the podcast platforms that it drops on or down on
the day after that we got live on the Tuesday night. Regardless, welcome.
I'm very grateful that you're spending the next hour or
so of your life with me. I hope you tune
into the end because you never know what dark and

(01:27):
strange byways we will be traveling down on Talking Weird.
There's always so many strange things to explore. I'm not
going to chat your ear off tonight because I think
we're going to have a wonderful conversation with our guest.
He's a paranormal investigator, a paranormal sketch artist, and content
creator with extensive experience in the world of the unexplained.

(01:48):
As the former producer for YouTube channel Beyond Explanation and
Phantoms and Monsters Radio, He's created and overseen shows covering
topics such as bigfoot, UFOs and conspiracy theories. He hosted
the show v diving into some of the most mysterious
and controversial subjects in the paranormal realm. With a unique
blend of investigative skills and artistic talents, he brings the

(02:10):
unknown to life through detailed sketches and in depth research,
offering a fresh perspective on the strange, the eerie, and
the supernatural. So I'm absolutely delighted to welcome back tonight
to Talking Weird. Vincent Richardson, welcome back.

Speaker 3 (02:26):
Thanks for having me back. It's great to be back, man.

Speaker 4 (02:29):
It's good to have you. Howd your summer going.

Speaker 3 (02:31):
It's going great so far. It's been a great summer.
How about yours.

Speaker 4 (02:34):
It's good.

Speaker 2 (02:35):
It's hot up here in the north Woods. I'm super
busy with my documentary but I'm also managing to squeeze
in trips to the lake and other fun things with
my daughter, which is wonderful. Getting to hang out with
my girlfriend a lttle too, which is awesome. So we've
got to try to enjoy the summers even when we're busy,
because here in the north Woods, before you know it,
those you know, cold autumn or fall you wish you

(02:55):
would say here, winds start you whipping through the trees
and winters on its way, and then it's months and
months of winter usually.

Speaker 4 (03:03):
So yeah, I have to enjoy the summer's up here.

Speaker 3 (03:05):
My friend, I can only imagine.

Speaker 4 (03:07):
How summer, though.

Speaker 2 (03:08):
I think both of our summers are going to kind
of end at the same point.

Speaker 4 (03:11):
This year.

Speaker 2 (03:11):
We were talking a little bit about it before the
show started. You're coming to Crossing Realms Conference.

Speaker 3 (03:17):
I am going to attend the Crossing Realms Conference. I'm
very excited about.

Speaker 2 (03:21):
It, man, I'm excited to know that you're going. And
that is, of course in Richmond, Missouri, Friday the nineteenth
and Saturday the twentieth of September, which I think will
be a great way to kind of.

Speaker 4 (03:33):
Ring out the summer.

Speaker 3 (03:35):
Absolutely, that's a great season.

Speaker 2 (03:38):
So it was that start the spooky season exactly. Wow,
it's just perfect. I'm going to play a quick promo
for that conference right now because tickets are available, Lots
of wonderful guests including I'll be there, You'll be there,
lots of cool people to hang out with, and it's
actually sponsored by the Untold Radio Network. So I'm going
to bang up a little promo for that now with

(03:58):
more details for people.

Speaker 5 (04:00):
Crossing Realms Conference is coming the September nineteenth and twentieth
to the Eagleton Civic Center in Richmond, Missouri. Tickets to
this landmark event are on sale right now at event break.
The powerful speaker lineup will cover topics from Bigfoot, UFOs
and aliens, so you will not want to miss attending
this amazing today inaugural event. Again, that's the Crossing Realms

(04:21):
Conference this September nineteenth and twentieth at the Eagleton Civic
Center in Richmond, Missouri. Please mark your calendar and get
your tickets before they vanish. Space is limited.

Speaker 3 (04:31):
Ooh nice, It's going to be a good time.

Speaker 1 (04:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (04:35):
A lot of heavy hitters on that lineup there.

Speaker 2 (04:37):
There are there are some, there are some amazing folks.
And I think one of the wonderful things about a
conference or a festival is we all tend to operate
in this real world where we don't get to spend
time regularly or regularly enough with people who share our interests.
But when you're at a conference or at a film
festival or whatever your interests are. I run film festivals

(04:59):
as well. Is why that comes to mind. You're surrounded
by people who have very similar interest to you, and
real friendships can be developed there. And you also get
to bump into perhaps friends you already have, like I'm
going to be bumping into you there, which is be wonderful,
and we'll hang out heaps, but you build new friendships.
And there's something really special about attending a conference or

(05:19):
a festival or any event where everybody shares you know,
a kind of like mind, and in this case, you
know a like mind in the paranormal and the unusual
and cryptozoology.

Speaker 4 (05:30):
And the like.

Speaker 3 (05:30):
Absolutely a lot of good conversation is going to be
had that name.

Speaker 2 (05:35):
And I think we're going to have a good conversation tonight.
You pitched Tonight's I Doe you actually talk about to
talk about Bigfoot and other cryptids, And I suppose ongoing
debate or disagreement within the community of whether these things
are flesh and blood or whether there's something paranormal or
some kind of psychic or mental construct or something. So

(05:58):
maybe I'll give you the floor a little to just
throw out some of your ideas about this.

Speaker 3 (06:03):
Sure, there's definitely a lot of different camps out there
in the paranormal community and what they believe that these
paranormal entities slash cryptids could be. But you know, it's
still out there in the books because not one camp

(06:24):
has exact information on the whole thing, considering you know,
it's all myth and folklore based, so you have to
take everything as a grain of salt, even eyewitness reports.

Speaker 4 (06:41):
Yeah, I think that that's one of the things.

Speaker 2 (06:43):
I mean, my wheelhouse is probably more eufology than cryptozoology,
but I don't think there's a bigger difference between the two,
as some of the more whether it's flesh and blood
in the cryptozoological world or nuts and bolts in the
extra Austrial euthological world, want to present it. And I

(07:04):
think one of the dangers is when you're saying take
it with a grain of salt is ef the phenomenon,
whatever it is, is deceptive, then the witnesses themselves may
be full the witnesses might not be. Ever, I mean,
obviously some people hopes, and some people lie, and some people,
you know, mistake, you know, things for something which is
anomalous when it's not, whether it's venus in the sky

(07:26):
or whether it's you know, the flash of a black
bear in the woods. But I do think people are
seeing genuinely anomalous things.

Speaker 3 (07:32):
Oh, I agree with that.

Speaker 2 (07:33):
But then when it comes to the anomalous, the question
is is are they being fooled by whatever the phenomenon is.

Speaker 4 (07:38):
It's something I think about frequently.

Speaker 3 (07:41):
Yeah, and it varies, but it all seems to be
very connected in the sense where it's very personal and
the experience, and it's hard to get straight information from that.

Speaker 4 (07:57):
I think there's a lot of.

Speaker 2 (08:00):
Different cultural and psychological influences that probably intersect with our perception.
I think, even outside of the paranormal, although what we're
talking about is paranormal cryptozoological. I think we're influenced period
in our day to day life with our expectations, you know,
which we're pre programmed to expect something to behave a

(08:23):
certain way. You know, we're kind of we kind of
get locked into we get locked into expecting what something is.
And that's one of the reasons I think a light
in the sky which people can't identify, they instantly think
of as perhaps, you know, a flying saucer or an
extraterrestrial spacecraft because years of popular culture has taught them

(08:43):
that a distant light in the sky gradually comes forward
and then you see the disc shaped craft. And you know,
the same way that if you hush a Bigfoot show,
you're told that if you see a strange you know,
leaning of trees in the woods, it's indicative of Bigfoot
have been there, or or you know, you hear a
strange you know sound, whipping sound, or something you can't identify,

(09:06):
that it's got to be a sasquatch or all of
these things that people who people are preconditioned to then
when they encounter something anomalous to kind of lock in
to what the culture has taught them. In today's culture
is yes, strange things in the woods, Bigfoot, strange lights
in the sky, flying sources, you know.

Speaker 3 (09:27):
Sure, and I mean especially in the Bigfoot camp. So
I mean you've got the people that think that there
is maybe some sort of undocumented in North American ape
that is out and you know, living out there somewhere.
And then you've got the people that think this is
some sort of supernatural creature that you know what the

(09:49):
Native Americans speak about this, like guardian of the forest
or something to that effect. What what is it? What
is what are they seeing? What are these people experiencing?
I mean it's hard to say.

Speaker 2 (10:11):
I think that I'm I'm glad you brought up the
Native American experience or the Native American interpretation, because they
don't say this out of any sense of political correctness
or any sense of you know what I mean trying
to be all you know, I don't know Kumbai Irish,
but I suspect that cultures of that have had long
ongoing contacts with various anomalist phenomena. And I would could

(10:34):
point at other ones like fairy faith in Ireland, you know,
they're My point is I think people that have had
long ongoing cultural experiences with things probably have a better
handle on it than you know, another culture that comes
in and in marches into the woods and instantly you know,
interprets you know, oh it must be you know, a

(10:54):
totally flesh and blood eight because one of the things
in so many of those Native American traditions, it's not
they say it's not flesh and blood necessarily, but it's
more complicated than that.

Speaker 4 (11:04):
It seems to be able.

Speaker 2 (11:04):
To come and go from this world, and it behaves
in a far more complicated way. It interacts with them
in a far more complicated way in the mythological stories
as well as some of the orally recorded experiences. Then
something that would just be a you know, a yet
undiscovered North American primate.

Speaker 3 (11:25):
Absolutely, and then there's the even weirder the stranger where
they see the UFOs and the Bigfoot at the same time,
and then hear these reports of bigfoot stepping out of
UFOs and people seeing these bigfoots turn into strange lights
and fly away. So, I mean, one exactly is going

(11:46):
on with that all phenomena.

Speaker 2 (11:48):
I think that's something that we'll talk about again in
a little bit. But before we were going to do
this show tonight, because again you pitched the topic and
I think I think it's a great topic. Is I
went and I pulled off my shelf a couple of books,
both of them by Jerome Clark and Lauren Coleman. This

(12:08):
is going to go weird with the green screen, The Unexplained,
the Unidentified, which is a UFO book, and Creatures of
the Outer Edge is there is their Bigfoot and more
cryptozoological type book.

Speaker 1 (12:20):
Right.

Speaker 2 (12:21):
They dedicate this book to John Keele. I think they
wrote it in nineteen seventy eight. And of course now
we think of Lauren Coleman as being almost I guess
the grandfather or that, you know, the patriarch of cryptozoology,
and we tend to think of most of his explanations
being fairly flesh and blood ish. She has this cryptozoology

(12:42):
Museum's the museum exactly exactly. And of course, of course
his co author and both of these books, Jerome Clark,
is the encyclopediast of youuthology, who now totally poopoo's John
Keele and poopoos, you know, these kind of powry euphological explanations.
But it's interesting that they both they dedicated this book

(13:04):
to John Keel. But there's a piece in the book
I thought I would read because it's fascinating to see
there was a time period where maybe what we're talking
today could have become culturally ascendants. Certainly John Keel was
pushing this in the euphological space as well as looking at.

Speaker 4 (13:20):
Cryptids and things.

Speaker 2 (13:21):
But there was a period when we consider how important
Lauren Coleman is now that perhaps we could have got
in a direction very different to the finding Bigfoot, do
you know what I mean?

Speaker 4 (13:32):
Type of reality of it.

Speaker 2 (13:34):
So you know, it's an ape in the woods and
we can you know, we can find it. This book's
really worth reading, by the way, I can't. I can't
recommend either of these books enough to anybody if you're
watching or if you're not watching. One is The Unidentified,
the other one is Creatures of the Outer Edge. Again,
they're both by Jerome Clark and Lauren Coleman, and they
write this little bit and they say, whatever the case,

(13:56):
we think this much is clear. UFOs and creatures, in
other words, cryptids before the word cryptid was being thrown
around it everywhere. UFOs and creatures are generated by a
single paranormal mechanism. The parallels between the phenomena are undeniable.
And then they go on at some length, you know,

(14:17):
making different points why they're similar. But it's fascinating to
me that perhaps the one of the greatest proponents of
a flesh and blood type of interpretation, or at least
thought to be that type of proponent, and one of
the greatest proponents of the extraterrestrial nuts and bolts type interpretation.
They were at a stage in seventy eight where they
were throwing to me.

Speaker 3 (14:36):
I was going to ask, see, I think they're a
little bit groovyy back then, and they're a little bit
more open minded, and Keel was. I mean, that was
like reading from the Bible of Keel the extra the
ultraterrestrial beings that are, you know, which is what I
think too, Dean personally. I know you think similar thoughts too.

Speaker 4 (14:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (14:58):
I think it's it's when you look at all of
these things and you try to take off or you
try to remove that type of cultural lens I was
talking about before, which becomes a psychological lens as well,
because the culture influences so much. And I mean we're

(15:18):
all culturally bound. I'm culturally abound.

Speaker 4 (15:19):
Everybody is.

Speaker 2 (15:20):
But when you try to distance yourself a little bit
from those expectations. You can see what Clark and Coleman
were talking about in that piece. You can see that
there are similarities between these phenomena and whether it's the
fact that we're continue and I think one of the
best examples is that we're continually left with a lack

(15:44):
of any type of hard, you know, paradigm changing physical evidence,
you know what I mean. We'll find a big footprints,
we'll find some hair which is kind of you know,
not quite you know, explainable or doesn't really solve the problem,
and we'll find a UFO landing mark, or see a
weird light in the sky, or if you go to

(16:04):
the paranormal realm and we can talk about this as well,
of course you'll you'll have some strange, you know, recording
of you know, a ghost or maybe it's you know.

Speaker 4 (16:13):
Local radio station.

Speaker 2 (16:14):
There's always My point is there's always this uncertainty with
the evidence. There's never anything which you can you can
really you know, go to the bank with and change
the scientific paradigm with whatever this, whatever these things are,
they all remain elusive. And we've been in this the
broader communities. People have been hunting bigfoot now in America

(16:37):
since at least what's since the fifties UFOs or maybe
the sixties, fifty sixties, I mean got more popular UFO
since you know, the mid delight, excuse me, the mid
to late forties, ghostly apparitions for almost forever, and we're
still no close to getting a handle on any of
this stuff.

Speaker 3 (16:53):
I mean, let's be real, no, And I think a
lot that how too, is someone will see something legitimately,
they will see something very strange, be it Bigfoot or UFO,
and then they will start to experience these other paranormal
phenomenon and that almost starts to discredit the whole first

(17:18):
original sighting because things start to become muddied, that things
aren't black and white anymore. Things are starting to happen,
and you know, after time, I mean a lot of
credible people that I believe that had very reasonable encounters
with strange things over time become these people that are

(17:40):
just you know, like that they're unrealistically trying to uphold
this phenomenon that's been maybe plaguing them since the original
thing or maybe not, because then it starts to muddy
waters with the whole psychological problem with the paranormal.

Speaker 2 (18:02):
And I think I totally agree with you, and I
think that's something that John Keel was super conscious of
in his investigations, and obviously with the whole Mothman thing
in Point Pleasant, when people were also seeing UFOs and
other strange cryptids and strange experiences with everything from dwarfs
to weird giants who were leaping over fences to men

(18:24):
in black. So this whole gamut of paranormal phenomena seemed
to descend in the Point Pleasant area in the period
when Keel was there.

Speaker 4 (18:34):
You know, in the late sixties that.

Speaker 2 (18:37):
None of it was really you know, you couldn't really
none of it really made sense, as it didn't even
make sense alone, let known altogether. But when you step
back and you go, well, maybe maybe this is somehow interconnected,
then you start to see a pattern. And perhaps in
these patterns, whether we'll ever get to the bottom of

(18:58):
it or I don't know, but perhaps when we set
back a little bit and taking all of it, maybe
we might see something which makes a little bit more sense.

Speaker 3 (19:07):
Now, I mean, we live in the day and age
where everybody has a camera and everybody can record everything,
and now AI has been introduced and everything gets a
little bit stranger, and now we can tell if what
we're recorded was really recorded or if I'm really talking
on this microphone right now. But as we advanced with

(19:27):
all this technology, we are going to get some answers
into the paranormal. I'm very hopeful with the whole quantum
physics and Willow project and all that we're going to
connect these weird dots sooner or later and we're going
to get some of these answers.

Speaker 4 (19:42):
Yeah, maybe talk a little bit about that.

Speaker 2 (19:44):
That sounds fascinating, Like, tell me how you imagine some
of this stuff potentially playing out some of the investigations
and some of our discoveries.

Speaker 3 (19:54):
Well, I mean, we're going to scientifically figure out these
like weird things, and then I think we're going to
base maybe some I don't know, paranormal philosophy towards it
to connect the weirdness with the technology that is explaining

(20:17):
the weirdness of our fringe parapsychology. I mean, there's something
going on, something is happening. People have been seeing things
and experiencing things forever. I mean, we're going to get answers,
even if we don't like the answers.

Speaker 2 (20:36):
I mean, I think that that might be part of it.
I wonder if you will ignore the answers that we
don't like I'm fairly more than likely. I mean, yeah,
I think far more than likely. Much of the push
towards disclosure, which is never going to come, and even
if it comes will be super suspicious, well get to
be watered down, is that people just want to be

(20:58):
told what they believe already.

Speaker 4 (21:00):
Like, that's the whole point.

Speaker 2 (21:01):
They don't want the US government to give them some
ridiculous or some far fetched or some explanation they never
conceived of within their philosophy or within their theology. Perhaps
it is they want the US government to say. And
I'm about to get to a point by Horace Smith
who just posted something they want. They literally are hoping
the US government will say something like this, the disclosure people.

Speaker 4 (21:22):
This is literally what they want.

Speaker 2 (21:24):
We recovered a crashed craft at Roswell which was extraterrestrially.
We've recovered other crashed sources. We know that there's extraterrestrial
intelligence visiting the planet. We've had dealings with them. Yeah,
that's what the disclosure people want to hear. They don't
want to hear some they don't expect to hear. They
don't expect to hear anything they don't already believe. All

(21:44):
they want is the US government that they haven't trusted
since Donald Keiho first the head of NYCAP back in
the nineteen fifties and were saying there was a cover up. Right,
they haven't trusted the US government for literally the whole
history of the UFO phenomenon, even before that, if you
look at some of the Palmer was writing, the phenomenon
has the phenomenon has never been supposedly according to euthology,

(22:07):
we've never been told what the phenomenon is truthfully by
the US government and they know what it is, right
according to people like Keiho and Onwoods.

Speaker 3 (22:15):
Do you think they know what it is? No?

Speaker 4 (22:17):
I think they have no idea. I think that rephrase that.

Speaker 2 (22:21):
I think much of the phenomenon, like the tic TAC
videos and things like that, I think are ours.

Speaker 4 (22:27):
I think a lot of it.

Speaker 2 (22:28):
Is our own technology, and we know, certainly pre tic
TAC a lot of it was our own technology. Because
a historian, a CIA historian meaning not somebody who wrote
about the CIA, but somebody who was employed by the
CIA back in the day when I was doing my
PhD dissertation in the nineties into the early two thousands,
a paper came out from the CIA, where a historians said,

(22:51):
we knew in the sixties that you know, a fairly
large percentage of the vast majority actually, like I think
something like seventy percent of flying source acietings in the
US could be traced to technology that we were testing
and just simple things things now that we think are simple,
like you know, spy planes and things, and we were

(23:13):
happy for the US public to think that, and we
spun it that. We were happy for that spin to go,
so we know in the past that was the case.
I suspect when I suspect things like tic TAC are.

Speaker 4 (23:25):
Various. I don't know. I don't know who it could be.

Speaker 2 (23:27):
It could be like you know, skunk Works, it could
be another it could be another private contractor which is
you know, building state of the art technology, gets an
opportunity to test it on our own pilots, and then
our own pilots are like, what the hell is this? Well,
who look at the way it's moving right? And then
what they do? They roll out our own pilots and

(23:48):
the pilot says, totally being and God bless them for
their service and everything, because I think there're being one
hundred percent here.

Speaker 4 (23:54):
We don't know anything that flies like this. It mustn't
have been you know, it mustn't have been of this.

Speaker 2 (23:58):
Earth because they don't they haven't been briefed on what
we have in the black budget you know back rooms
which have had you know, billions and billions of dollars
being spent on for decades now. And Ben Ritchie used
to be the head of like Skunkworks or one of
those projects, literally said, you know, if you've seen on
Star Wars or Star Trek, we built it or we

(24:19):
can build it, and decided not to because you know,
it wasn't worth our while. So the people who are
at the top of the ladder, I said, yeah, we
do all this kind of stuff. We have the technology.
But of course, your navy pilot, he's going to be
briefed on what the Russians are flying, what the Soviets
are flying, if he's a Navy pilot, what the Air
Force is flying, and what the Army is flying, and
he's going to be taught how to identify all of

(24:39):
these things. So he's also the perfect person to put
in front of the public because they're totally sincere he
or her. Because there's some female naval pilots as well,
who's been thrown at.

Speaker 4 (24:49):
Us and just saying I don't know what this is.
This clearly isn't ours.

Speaker 2 (24:53):
Well, they're not going to be briefed on what skunk
Works are testing because nobody's going to be briefed on
what skunk Works is testing. So it's the perfect So
at that level, I do think there are people within
the military industrial complex, both at the apperchualons of the
government military levels and also the upper echelons of the
private you know, industry levels, who know exactly what things

(25:14):
like tiktak are, But as far as what's behind fairies
and Bigfoot and these other things, I think they're totally
in the dark. And that's what John Keel said, and
that's what Jacques Valat used to say as well before
he wrote The Trinity, the Best Kept Secret Book with
PAULA Harris a few years ago. I mean, both of

(25:34):
the great I guess granddaddies of power euthology Kiel and Valet, well,
like the government doesn't know what this stuff is.

Speaker 3 (25:43):
Not this consciousness, not this awareness that we're dealing with.
This is something that like Crowley and different guys back then,
we're dealing with this is ancient entities that we are
communicating with, and I think they put on different faces.

(26:06):
I mean, there's been many more paranormal investigator that has
walked this path than I and said that this is
something more of an awareness than a single entity.

Speaker 2 (26:19):
Oh, I agree with you. There's there's something I should
throw and we can both answer. This is from Horace Smith,
who's a very good friend of the show. He's also
been a guest on the show a number of times.
He's Professor Emeritus of Astronomy and Physics Michigan State University,
and he says one's belief in events such as the
Roswell crash must shape your conclusion as to whether UFOs

(26:41):
and nuts and bolts or paranormal.

Speaker 4 (26:45):
That's a good point, Horace. What do you what's your
take on that? Vincent?

Speaker 3 (26:49):
Hmm, like that is a good So the Roswell crash,
I mean there was two crashes, right, and and what
happened was it was a weather balloon or was it

(27:09):
some sort of alien craft that we knocked out of
the sky accidentally with sound waves or on purpose accidentally.
I'm not sure, but yeah, it's it's more than it's
more than you can explain with a simple explanation, as
were they aliens that crashed here on Earth on accident

(27:30):
that day?

Speaker 4 (27:31):
I don't think so, Yeah, I don't.

Speaker 2 (27:35):
I don't think so either, and I can I can
see Horace's point because if you accept the Roswell crash
as a literal reality in the sense that there was
a craft that was not of this world that crashed
in the desert of New Mexico, and the US Army
Air Force retrieved the wreckage and bodies and covered up

(28:01):
the story, then I think by default you've got to say,
maybe not that it's extraterrestrial, but that it's least nuts
and bolts. It could be like some people are suggesting,
now you know ultra terrestrial race that lives on this
planet and you know comes out of hiding. But then
you have to acknowledge that if you believe that, by default,

(28:22):
you have to you have to accept that there's you know,
non human intelligences flying around our sky, you know, in
metal crafts. And that's one of the reasons to play
Devil's Advocate for a moment that John Keel so adamantly
was against the Roswell crash and would make arguments like, well,

(28:42):
it could very well have been a Japanese FuGO balloon
or whatever they would call that the Japanese were launching,
you know, during World War Two.

Speaker 3 (28:51):
Or crazy stories too, like they put kids in there
and burned them badly and wrecked it down so it
look like aliens and all this other crazy stuff.

Speaker 2 (29:01):
Nick Redfern wrote a book about testing with you know,
deformed children or the like in body snatches in the Desert.

Speaker 4 (29:09):
I mean all of these things.

Speaker 2 (29:11):
Yeah, Redfern's great, I think all but I think all
of this stuff's potentially mind you.

Speaker 4 (29:14):
I don't think we need to.

Speaker 2 (29:15):
Go as deep as looking for an explanation of why
if they retrieved humanoids in that crash, because that's a
story that comes around almost thirty something years after the
Roswell event actually happened. The original story just had strange
debris that was found, and it wasn't ridiculous that the

(29:38):
original story. It's not like they found, you know what
I mean, something that glowed blue and started projecting holograms.
It was just like, well, this stuff was kind of
weird and you could crush it a little and would unfold,
and it was lightweight and a lot of those explanations
have been covered very well in a book by a
couple of I think as a sociologist and maybe an

(29:59):
anthropol and somebody who actually worked on a high altitude
balloon testing system back in the day and they lost
their balloon, and they said the guy that it's divided
into different parts of sociological part in the anthropological part,
I think, and the actual the tracing of the balloon.

Speaker 4 (30:17):
He's like, that balloon was one of ours. That's clearly
the balloon we lost.

Speaker 2 (30:21):
We had the tape that we were using looked like
weird hieroglyphs, It had weird printing on it. The material
was super lightweight. It was a super sensitive program. Jesse
Marcel would not have been briefed on what was on
it at all. It was like testing high altitude, you know,
radiation or something. Nobody would have known what this was.
And if it had crashed, it would have spread debris everywhere.

(30:42):
It would have disintegrated, just like you know, the original
Roswell story talked about all this silvery stuff all over
a field.

Speaker 4 (30:50):
So I think I almost don't.

Speaker 2 (30:52):
Need to have an explanation for the humanoids which were discovered,
because that's not talked about it at all until decades afterwards,
when everybody's been polluted by all kinds of stories and
all kinds of different films and so who knows, But
the actually the original story, I think that. I think
that academic book and I think it's just called something

(31:13):
like UFO Crash at Roswell, which are probably fifty different
books a title now, but it's a very strong academic books.
It really made me think, I'm pretty sure this is
the explanation for roswellt to answer your question, horrors, that's
my take.

Speaker 3 (31:25):
Any but if a UFO didn't wreck and there was
no bodies, then what did Nixon show Jackie Gleason.

Speaker 2 (31:34):
Well, there's a talk about the Glee. Yeah, the gas
stuff's interesting as well, who knows, who knows? Don't forget
there were other stories of other crash sources as well.
There's the Aztec crash story, right, like there was meant
to be in a crash in as Tech or is
that Arizona or somewhere or who knows. I don't know,
and we, of course we can't, we can ever be
sure how much of this is psyops stuff as well,

(31:55):
Like you know, show them a.

Speaker 4 (31:56):
Little bit to confuse people and to throw them.

Speaker 3 (31:58):
I don't know that's the whole tech to like, why
would you why would they show that us? Where would
they show that to us?

Speaker 1 (32:04):
Now?

Speaker 3 (32:05):
Why have this disclosure meeting one and two point zero
and two point five and what all of get out
of here?

Speaker 1 (32:15):
Come on?

Speaker 2 (32:15):
And I do I totally agree with you, And I
think that the people that are put forward as experts.

Speaker 4 (32:21):
And know that, I really don't think they know anything.

Speaker 2 (32:23):
I mean as far as that, I mean, I have
all kinds of issues with with with Steven Greer, I
really do.

Speaker 4 (32:31):
I don't.

Speaker 2 (32:31):
I think a lot of his stuff is whacked and
out there. But I think some of his criticisms about
disclosure are dead on, Like I think his criticisms about
David Grush probably being played absolutely dead on, Like Grush
is just being told stuff by.

Speaker 4 (32:45):
People, do you know what I mean? Like and then
you know, kind of being guided in this direction.

Speaker 3 (32:51):
He doesn't make a lot of money off that CE
five stuff though, that is very.

Speaker 4 (32:55):
Oh listen, I totally agree with you. I think this
five stuff is two thousand dollars.

Speaker 3 (33:01):
You can join me on a round and I'll contact.

Speaker 2 (33:04):
I agree with you, I agree and I think I
think that Stephen Steve Gree is a true believer in
his own version of this interrestrial hypothesis and still making bank.
But I still think I do think he's a true believer.
But I don't think his belief's or accurate either. But
I do think I do think some of his criticism, I.

Speaker 3 (33:23):
Think he's part of the whole fake disclosure thing. You
don't think he's been played like one hundred.

Speaker 2 (33:27):
He could be you could be right, he could be
totally being played because it's a different version of it, right,
But his version has and of course that's the best
kind of disinfo, The best kind of disinfo has some
truth in it, right, And his his version is most
of this stuff is ours and we're being you know,
they're trying to set us up for belief and you
know this up this coming aggressive alien invasion. But the

(33:51):
ets are really quite nice and we're just being manipulated
by an evil military industrial establishment.

Speaker 4 (33:58):
Some of that's true.

Speaker 2 (33:59):
I'm not sure about the good et part of it,
but I think the manipulation part of it it's accurate.
But that's great dis info as well, right, Like thet.

Speaker 3 (34:07):
Is out there trying to trying to save us right
now exactly.

Speaker 4 (34:10):
So it's still great disinfo. Good point.

Speaker 3 (34:15):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (34:16):
Let's right back the Bigfoot quickly, though, because otherwise people
will be like you said, you were going to talk
about bigfoot en cryptids.

Speaker 3 (34:21):
That's true. Sorry guys, these alien.

Speaker 4 (34:25):
It's my fault.

Speaker 2 (34:27):
What are some of the things that you think might
be indicative that? Well, both ways, what I don't want
to I don't want to lead you. But what things
do you think might be indicative that bigfoot is is
flesh and blood? And what things do you think and
maybe you can't think of any for either of these arguments,
And what things you think are indicative that it's not
flesh and blood or something else?

Speaker 3 (34:47):
Okay, So in the flesh and blood camp, we have
a certain doctor I want toss her name through the mud,
But she went on a big DNA hunt and spent
a lot of money and had a lot of very
good and investigators on it, people I know that went
on these trips to pick up bigfoots DNA and they

(35:10):
didn't get the results they exactly wanted, so they started
spinning different stories and it really was a pivotal moment
in the Bigfoot camp. Because h boy boy did did
everybody go to different directions after that? You remember that
whole thing?

Speaker 1 (35:28):
Jane?

Speaker 4 (35:29):
Now I feel mean, I really don't know about cryptos Well.

Speaker 3 (35:33):
Doctor mevill Ketchum tried to collect a bunch of DNA,
said that they darted a sasquatch said they collected DNA
from hundreds. I think of different specimens, and most most
came up with, like you know, people, jeans and others
were unknown, but not you know, anything solid, of course.

(35:55):
But my whole point in bringing this whole case up
is you had people that, like, legitimately I believe, are
good investigators out there doing good work, collecting good samples,
keeping these samples clean, doing it the right way. And
all it takes is a couple of bad eggs making
up stories to pollute the whole truth on what you

(36:17):
could have. So did they ever collect anything solid? Did
they ever find legitimate proof that there is unknown hamin
and DNA out there in North America? I can't say definitively.
Because of all of the circus that ensued and does
ensue in the Bigfoot community.

Speaker 2 (36:41):
You probably spoke to as many of the more people
in the community.

Speaker 4 (36:46):
Than I do.

Speaker 2 (36:47):
I consider myself more as like an historian or an
anthropologist or an anthropologist on the edge of it. But
which direction do you think the big community lead in
heavious these days? Do you think it's still flih and
blood or do you think that kind of the other
interpretations are making real headway.

Speaker 3 (37:07):
There's a good group of people that are investigating called
Project zoo Book that are actually looking for like a
real possible North American ape and they're doing cool stuff
that's neat. But most of the Bigfoot community is sold
into this kind of like supernatural man ape that is

(37:32):
in the forest, and they do crazy things like habituation,
which I wouldn't recommend anybody to do, which is trying
to form a relationship with these unknown creatures. If you're
having unknown creatures sighted in your woods and they are
banging on your house or bothering you on a regular basis,

(37:53):
don't feed them or try to get them to be
more a part of your life, because it usually doesn't
end well, and it's usually bears.

Speaker 4 (38:04):
So they there, there you go.

Speaker 2 (38:09):
And even if it wasn't bears, and if the Kilian
interpretation and the interpretation by by Coleman and Clark back
in the day of creatures of the outer edge is accurate.
If it's somehow you know, part of some paranormal mechanism
or whatever the term is they use, it's probably unwise
to encourage it anyway, right, Like, either way it's probably unwise, right.

Speaker 3 (38:34):
I mean, these people that believe that that the Bigfoot
is out there are also in the same can they
believe that there's dog man creature is out there, and
there's goat man creature is out there, and there's moth
man creatures out there, and if there are these super
weird humanoid creatures out loose in our woods that live ferally,

(39:00):
I would suggest that maybe for me in a relationship
might not be the positive thing to do.

Speaker 2 (39:07):
There could be like what's that what's that vern Herzog documentary?
Sorry exactly. I was watching the Verner Herzog documentary with
my girlfriend recently. I was introducing her to a grizzly
man about what's his name, Tim, whatever? His name is,
a who went out and was living with the grizzlies.

Speaker 3 (39:24):
Grizzlies and took his girlfriend out there.

Speaker 4 (39:26):
And they ate it.

Speaker 3 (39:27):
They ate them.

Speaker 4 (39:29):
I mean, what do you do in the story. But
it might be the same with bigfoot.

Speaker 2 (39:32):
We've got no reasonable if it's physical, and I don't
believe it is, But the same at the same point,
you mess it around with with crazy creatures outside.

Speaker 3 (39:41):
You know what if it was Jocantapithecus or some sort
of Neanderthal hang on or something like that, some sort
of feral human thing in the wood that, like what, Harry.

Speaker 4 (39:52):
You'll be deader than a hammer of it got the chance.

Speaker 3 (39:54):
I mean, bears are smart, you know. I mean, I'm
always surprised you hear these crazy other stories about raccoons
and stuff. They're so smart. Can you imagine a hairy
man out in the woods. They would be fairly intelligent,
I would imagine.

Speaker 2 (40:10):
Yeah, it might be like that guy, the guy in
the Grizzly Man documentary. Some of the best seemed relatively
he could kind of cope with him, but eventually the
main hungry one ate him. Right to assume that.

Speaker 4 (40:22):
All bigfoot, if they are physical, and again I don't
think that.

Speaker 2 (40:24):
But if they are, some well I don't think they're
Maybe they're physical in the way Native Americans talk about
being physical, But I don't think they're lost, you know,
some lost tribe or some undiscovered.

Speaker 3 (40:35):
I think they're going into like different vibrational beings. From
my understanding, they think that these creatures are they inhabit
a higher existence than we do and sometimes come down
to this lower existence that we are a part of.
And that's why they phase and like you know, are
seeing going through portals or turn into orbs of lights

(40:56):
and stuff. It's because they believe that these things are
maybe of a higher dimensional substance.

Speaker 2 (41:03):
And that might be accurate to the point that a
religiosity might help explain something which is beyond explanation. So
it might be accurate to a degree. It might be
more accurate than saying they just live here all the time.
But it could be that something which manifests here and
doesn't actually you know, isn't actually an ape man that

(41:26):
lives here and then walks through, you know, to another
level of reality. But it might still be a better
explanation of some intelligence or some force that comes and
goes from this reality. And to me, that explanation, whatever
the minutia is of it, seems to be a better

(41:47):
explanation for a creature that, despite a hunt which has
been going on now for at least sixty years, we
have no closer to the truth. And you know the thing,
and this is the thing I say all the time.
Often you see on these bigfoot documentaries, I'll play the
skeptics of you, well, if there was if they were
you know, ape men or you know, relic hominoids living

(42:09):
in the woods or undiscovered North America and ape, we'd
have a body. And then they pull out some you know,
sympathetic to Bigfoot law biologists or say.

Speaker 4 (42:17):
Well, we're North America. If if an ape, you know,
if a bear dies in the woods, or if a
deer dies in the woods, the decomposition is so fast
and the animals eat it and scatter the bones, there's
nothing left really quick. Sure, okay maybe, but but I'll
tell you what.

Speaker 2 (42:34):
There are people in North America shooting deer and bear
and everything else all the time. And people have not
not only have they shot at sasquatch multiple times, and
incidentally that pops up in this book as well. People
shoot at these things and are positive they hit them
and nothing happened. Sometimes they disappear in like a puff
of smoke and a flash of lights, or sometimes they'll

(42:56):
be like just squatting at the bullets like their mosquitoes,
or some times they just won't react at all. So
because we live in the United States of America, even
in Canada, where there's still a fairly healthy firearm, you know,
ownership not as healthy is here. But because we have
the Second Amendment here, there's no way on God's green
earth that somebody hasn't shot one of these things. There's

(43:18):
always the stories that, well, we shot one and then
we buried it, and somebody used to ring ut bell
and say they shot it and they bury it and
whatever else there'd be. There'd be people shooting these things
left and right, and they were being seen as much
as they talked about, and somebody would drag one into
Fox News and throw it on the doorstep and they'd
be they get their fifteen minutes of fame. Don't forget,
this isn't a week we're talking about. This is going

(43:39):
back to the fifties.

Speaker 3 (43:43):
They're just that good. They're just every time you get
a picture, every time you shoot one, and all of
a sudden, there they are, and they got the flashy thing.

Speaker 2 (43:52):
It's like it's like it's like the ninja of the
of the and that's the thing where the physical people
are silly because listen, I would if you want to
say that, oh they're super you know, there's were so
much more aware of us or something, then you're drifting
into the woo that you hate so much because to
quote you know, Schwatzdegg.

Speaker 4 (44:12):
If it bleeds, we can kill it. So it's flash.

Speaker 2 (44:15):
Somebody's killed this thing, not once or twice or three
times in the last eighty years. So well, he felt
bad that maybe he'd murdered something and he buried it
maybe once or twice, But there's been more people than
that that have killed Bigfoot. If this many people are
seen Bigfoot, and there's whole shows about it killing Bigfoot,
you know, Mountain Monsters and all these other shows where
people are out there trying to shoot them.

Speaker 3 (44:35):
Not to know somebody who's killed Bigfoot. I want you
to email me and tell me the story.

Speaker 2 (44:40):
About you'd have some Yeah, that'd be you could launch
v with that. You could bring somebody out and relaunch
it with somebody who.

Speaker 3 (44:49):
Would Bigfoot murder mysteries.

Speaker 2 (44:52):
Yeah, I was on if people didn't see me on
Donny Show's show on the weekend where we talk about horror.

Speaker 4 (45:00):
It's worth watching. It's a fun show.

Speaker 2 (45:04):
It's it's worth watching just for the the wonderfully hilarious
AI assisted credit sequence that Donnie made of me and
the song about me being the Dean of Horror. It's
just so so damn, so damn funny. I should throw
it a horrace again.

Speaker 4 (45:20):
He says.

Speaker 2 (45:20):
This is back to the UFO thing. He said that
Kevin Randall has some interesting arguments about the Mogul balloon
explanation for Roswell. I don't believe all of his conclusions,
but he's also he's always interesting. I agree, I like
I like Kevin Randall's race. I also like Don Schmidt
both as a writer and a person who's often a
co author of you know, he was a co author
of one of the main Roswell books with Kevin Randall.

(45:42):
Donald Schmidt's a great guy. I don't agree with him,
but I don't think these people are insincere.

Speaker 4 (45:47):
And maybe I'm wrong.

Speaker 2 (45:47):
Maybe the government did recover you know, crash sources and
dead ets. I mean, I'm just throwing out my ideas.

Speaker 3 (45:57):
Right, And who's the real expert anyway.

Speaker 4 (46:00):
One of us are?

Speaker 2 (46:00):
I think John Keel had the card and what was it?
It was something like expert wasn't the word authority of
nothing or authority on nothing or something was his business card.
And that's that's the reality in this space. Nobody likes
to admit it. But I don't know anything. I can
look at this as a cultural you know, historian, then
tell you what I think. You know, the history teaches

(46:21):
us about us. But the phenomenon itself, I'm just making
guesses out like everybody else's.

Speaker 3 (46:26):
I just have ideas and opinions, that's all.

Speaker 4 (46:31):
But it's it's it's always, it's always a blast to
talk to you.

Speaker 2 (46:34):
What about other what about other cryptids? Like do you
think there are other cryptids that that fit the potential
pattern of not being flesh and blood?

Speaker 4 (46:44):
Or do you think there are cryptids that are very
likely flesh and blood?

Speaker 3 (46:48):
You know. Dealing with the whole wing humanoid phenomenon back
a couple of years back, I found it very interesting
on how many people have actually experienced a winged humanoid,
be it some sort of angelic experience or some sort

(47:09):
of demonic experience, or something weird in between, and digging
into a deeper, it's a phenomenon that's been happening as
much as ghosts or wild men in the forest or
were wolves. It's something that's a part of our consciousness.

(47:30):
It's a part of our folklore, it's a part of
our mythology. And it's strange that these reoccurring themes still
exist today and these people are still having experiences of
these things that they've been talking about forever today. So
it leads some I don't know. I mean, the people

(47:51):
that had seen these winged humanoids were people that worked
at an airport, like airport employees, these pilots and police officers.
So I mean they were like, don't don't tell, you know,
don't don't put our names out there, you know, all
this and leans leans towards the truth a little bit.

(48:15):
I mean, what did they see? I'm not sure, but
a lot of people were seeing a lot of the
same kind of thing in Chicago for quite something.

Speaker 2 (48:24):
That was the last big flap, right, the last big
Muffman flip was at the airport. A number of views
like yeah, four or five, maybe even more, maybe several
years ago.

Speaker 3 (48:32):
Now, yeah, yeah, right right outside of this weird little
uh cemetery that was right off the airport, and they
were having condensed sightings of some sort of gargoyle looking creature.

Speaker 2 (48:48):
It is interesting how all of all of history has
some creatures that seemed to repeat themselves, both through the
centuries and also across cultures. And like you said, one
of them is definitely humanoid creatures with wings. Of course,

(49:12):
another one would be dragons. Dragons are a cultural mainstay
across almost every you know, pre modern culture on the planet.

Speaker 3 (49:22):
Do people still see dragons? I guess they do. I
remember getting some of those back back when I worked
with the other guys. Yeah, that's that's a wild phenomenon.
I would have thought that, you know, we would have
killed out all the dragons, you know, as the knights
did in those days.

Speaker 4 (49:40):
Unless it's not physical.

Speaker 3 (49:42):
Unless it's not physical, there's a thought. Most dragons in
sci fi, you know, fantasy books, they're not just dragons.
They're higher intelligent beings. I mean, there might be something
to do.

Speaker 2 (49:54):
That's a that's a good point. Don't forget too that.
I'm sure you're more than aware. Is that when the
dragon legends were, you know, in the pre modern period,
were so prevalent, from up from thousands of years ago
to several hundreds of years ago, we didn't have I
mean far from the first person who said this, we

(50:15):
didn't have the term dinosaur yet, so dragon was just
what these big reptilian things were. Right today, when people
see some of these type of cryptids, and I'm putting
parenthesis around it for people who aren't listening, people are
only listening and not watching for an example, tyrannodons or
you know, terosaur type creatures. These these things that today

(50:42):
are identified as tyrannodons. But perhaps if Jason MacLean, for example,
a good friend of mine, I know you're I think
you're probably friends with Jason as well, a bit crossing realms,
he saw a terosaur type being way back in the day.
It was probably one of his points of entry to
the paranormal lots.

Speaker 4 (50:59):
Of people have.

Speaker 2 (51:00):
But if he'd seen that thing, you know, three hundred
years ago, it wouldn't have been, oh, I saw a relict,
you know, flying, you know, reptile from the time of
the dinosaurs. It would have been I saw a dragon.
They wouldn't have had the word dinosaur to use. It
would have been I saw a dragon.

Speaker 3 (51:17):
Ruller, I think I'm not calling dinosaurs dinosaurs anymore. I'm
just gonna call him dragons. I think that's bring it back, Dan, Yeah.

Speaker 4 (51:25):
That makes total sense.

Speaker 2 (51:27):
While we were talking about those weird things, my light
blew off in here, which is super weird, came back
on there.

Speaker 4 (51:34):
I had to touch it to turn it back on.

Speaker 2 (51:35):
Just went off with there you go with the spirit
of the dinosaurs. Well, some I've heard other people suggest
that modern dinosaur sightings might be even ghosts of the dinosaurs.

Speaker 3 (51:48):
I love that. I love the Lockness monster is actually
a ghost. It's interesting that was that was actually conjured
by drum Roll did a Lester Crowley right?

Speaker 2 (52:05):
Because he had his property on the side of the
lock and was doing all kinds of ritual magic there.

Speaker 3 (52:09):
And then and then who bought it? Jimmy Page from
le Zeppelin?

Speaker 4 (52:13):
Oh was it Page? You bought it up? Well, there
you go, good grief.

Speaker 3 (52:17):
Cool mm hmmmm.

Speaker 2 (52:21):
So, I mean, I think I think some of these things,
maybe some of maybe some of the mystery does lie
in semantics. Maybe some of the mystery doesn't lie in
the terms that we that we actually use.

Speaker 4 (52:33):
Donny chose always funny in the chat for those of
you are watching them, was the dragon for the video version.

Speaker 2 (52:39):
But maybe maybe some of it becomes a language question
as well, because today we will say it was a dinosaur,
and perhaps in the past people would have said it
was a dragon. And there's a great book by Ted Holiday,
who was another thinker within the Keeleian camp. I think
he corresponded with Kiel who wrote a number of books

(53:02):
on the Locknest Monster, but my favorite, the first book
I think he wrote was called The Great Orm, and
his theory then was it was some kind of mollusk
or something like it was.

Speaker 4 (53:12):
But then later he.

Speaker 2 (53:13):
Went to a more metaphysical approach and a wonderful book
called The Dragon and the Disc, and he noticed that
there seemed to be in Neolithic England or Neolithic I
guess Britain, the worship of disc shaped things which often
appeared in artwork as and it kind of was the correspondent,

(53:38):
the negative correspondent to that was dragons or serpents.

Speaker 4 (53:43):
And he was able to start to develop.

Speaker 2 (53:48):
You know, this idea that these things, both flying sauces
and things like the Lockness Monster had been had been
part of the consciousness of you know, of humanity at
least in that part of the world for a very
long time.

Speaker 3 (54:03):
Right, I get that, sure, just shapes and dragons and
UFOs I see.

Speaker 2 (54:12):
I mean, who knows. Horrce makes the point. Aren't all
birds now regarded as dinosaurs? You see some of my
chickens attacking each other. It looks like some t rex battle,
I'm telling you right now. So so, but speaking of
speaking of the Locknest Monster, and I'm not sure about
the Locknest Monster, but as far as aquatic cryptis go,

(54:33):
I don't know what your take on this is, Vincent,
but I think I'm most sympathetic if there is a physical,
a physically spectacular cryptid like not like I don't know,
a species we thought died out three hundred years ago
and it's still alive one hundred years ago, Like the
Thilis scene in Australia, you know, which is meant to
be extinct. I think they probably still are Thiolos scene

(54:55):
running around. I don't think that's even that Yeah, I
don't even think that's ridiculous a point.

Speaker 4 (55:01):
But I think when we talk about.

Speaker 2 (55:04):
Weird a cryptids like Bigfoot or the Lockness Monster or
sea serpents, I'm very sympathetic to the potentiality that there
are things in our oceans which are the level of
what we would think as monsters things, which is so
you know, ridiculous that it would be. It would be
quite paradigm shaking if they were found.

Speaker 4 (55:27):
I don't know what.

Speaker 2 (55:28):
It's because the oceans are so vast and there's lots
of places with these things.

Speaker 3 (55:32):
Yeah, what do we know about the oceans? We know
near nothing about the oceans really statistically anyway. I mean,
there could be anything down there. You always hear these
weird fun stories like that, what was it the blip
where it could have been some levias and you know,
moving down there. But I mean, you know there's stuff
down there that we thought didn't exist just a couple

(55:54):
of years ago and now know that exists. So it's
kind of crazy. Anything could be down there.

Speaker 4 (55:59):
Yeah. I think it was.

Speaker 2 (56:01):
Doug Hidchek, who is obviously the head of the Untiled
Radio network and he used to be the creator and
producer of Monster Quest. I think was the camera that
he invented and his team that filmed the first giant squid,
Like they've been talking about this thing forever for hundreds
of years and then he actually you know, captured it
on cameras.

Speaker 3 (56:22):
Yes, Doug's had some crazy experiences. Wow, that is definitely
one of the highest points, though. I mean, you hear
about this thing for for years and and pirate shanties
and you know, old c stories, and then they're at
his own camera for the first time, and now it's documented.

Speaker 2 (56:46):
All we need now is is video of a pliciosus
or something like that. I played a wonderful documentary at
the festival this year. It was The America. At the
festival I run Midwest Weirdfest in Ouclaire in first weekend
or second weekend of March every year, a film called
They Created a Monster, which was my favorite documentary I've

(57:08):
ever seen on the Lockness Monster because it turned the
cameras around instead of looking at, you know, looking at
what the monster was, and looked at the people who
would you know, who had developed this mythology, or who'd
been there filming it, who'd lived on you know, the
side of the lock intents and things, and it was
just a fascinating exploration of where so many of these

(57:32):
ideas come from and where the passion of the people
who are involved come from. And I think sometimes least
it's probably how I feel. I think sometimes the best
we can do is look at how the influence on
what we believe is spread and the people who were
the progenitors of those ideas kind of influenced us in

(57:53):
the first place. That's that's the that's the position that
I'm probably most interested because I can track that. It's
hard for me to track the reality the luckless mon
stuff or of UFOs or a bigfoot or anything else,
but I can certainly look at it culturally and see
how these ideas and you know, beliefs kind of become popularized.

Speaker 3 (58:13):
Absolutely. I mean, I think it's great that nowadays, like
things like bigfoot and the lockedness, monsters and ghosts and
and things like that can be openly talked about and
are like cool, you know, like they're publicly accepted. You know,
you're not the weird kid getting weird spooky books, you know,

(58:33):
at the library anymore. Here and now everybody likes the
weird and the strange and they're more open mind minded
to it. And I think that's why more people talk
about it now. I think that's a great thing.

Speaker 4 (58:45):
And I think that's that's a great end to the show.

Speaker 2 (58:48):
So is there any is there any place you want
to point people at or anything you want to to
I think.

Speaker 3 (58:54):
Everybody should come down to Rigimond, Missouri for that festival.
I think that's going to be a great time and
you can say hello to all of us crazy people
out there and talk about weird stuff together.

Speaker 2 (59:06):
Man, we're gonna have a great time. I can't wait
for your shou v to come back. I miss It
was great.

Speaker 3 (59:11):
And I'm looking forward to that too. It'll be around
the corner. I'm still getting some kinks.

Speaker 4 (59:16):
Out, aren't we all, my friend? Aren't we all?

Speaker 2 (59:21):
It was it was just, it was. It was wonderful
to have you back on talking. We'd say thank you
for joining me tonightment.

Speaker 3 (59:28):
Thanks for having me. It was a pleasure as always,
Thanks for having me, guys.

Speaker 2 (59:33):
And until I get to talk to you again, Vincent,
until I get to talk to everybody else out there,
until the same weird time, same weird network next week.

Speaker 4 (59:43):
Please keep it weird.