July 30, 2025 • 68 mins
Aleksandar Petakov is a documentary filmmaker, outdoorsman and avid adventurer constantly searching for the unknown. https://linktr.ee/AleksPetakov
Traveling across North America and the world, Aleksandar has looked into various mysteries including Cryptozoological creatures like Sasquatch, the Loch Ness Monster, the Lake Champlain Monster, Mystery Big Cats and bizarre phenomenon and mysterious places like the Bridgewater Triangle and more. He is a Small Town Monsters crew member and has created various documentaries, and docu-series about these mystery topics, most notably of which is “Bigfoot: Beyond the Trail”, which has amassed over 20 million collective views on YouTube.
Aleksandar returns to Talking Weird to chat about some of his most recent productions, including STRANGE PLACES: BIGFOOT BEYOND THE PINES. And he addresses the question: What really haunts New Jersey's Pine Barrens, the Jersey Devil, or Bigfoot?
Watch that fantastic episode of STRANGE PLACES here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbf-eGnbygE
This is an enthralling and insightful show that you do not want to miss!
Traveling across North America and the world, Aleksandar has looked into various mysteries including Cryptozoological creatures like Sasquatch, the Loch Ness Monster, the Lake Champlain Monster, Mystery Big Cats and bizarre phenomenon and mysterious places like the Bridgewater Triangle and more. He is a Small Town Monsters crew member and has created various documentaries, and docu-series about these mystery topics, most notably of which is “Bigfoot: Beyond the Trail”, which has amassed over 20 million collective views on YouTube.
Aleksandar returns to Talking Weird to chat about some of his most recent productions, including STRANGE PLACES: BIGFOOT BEYOND THE PINES. And he addresses the question: What really haunts New Jersey's Pine Barrens, the Jersey Devil, or Bigfoot?
Watch that fantastic episode of STRANGE PLACES here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbf-eGnbygE
This is an enthralling and insightful show that you do not want to miss!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
The paranormal UFOs, Monsters, Mysteries that you're listening to Talking
Weird and now from a Kevin Deep in the Northwards
your host, Doctor Dean Bertram.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Good evening of my fellow widows and widows. Welcome to
Talking Weird on the Unsold Radio Network. I'm your host,
Dean Bertram. And whether you're watching live at Tuesday nine
pm on x or Facebook or YouTube, or watching when
sometime after that date where it's archived, or maybe you're
listening to the show which drops every Wednesday on all
(01:02):
podcast platforms, welcome. I'm glad that you're going to spend
the next hour of your life with me, or I
sure hope you are. It is hot in the north
Woods Europe in Wisconsin, and I know it's been hot
around an awful lot of the country. I hope you're
doing your best to stay cool. And if you're hope
you're not being impacted by the fires in Canada. I
know even here we're being mildly impacted. Incredible smoky Hayes.
(01:25):
But take care of yourself, enjoy the summer which is
just blasting by. I'd be remiss if I didn't say
what I'm going to say now and I we're a
paranormal entertainment really network. But we lost one of perhaps
the most important entertainers in the history of professional sports
entertainment last week, and that was Hulk Hogan, who I
(01:48):
think was so formative to so many of us, certainly
to me growing up, and I think he revolutionized perhaps
not just sports entertainment, but narrative storytelling and the way
that we viewed superstars. First, of course, of his iconic run,
as you know, the legendary hul Cogan, the major babyface
good guy of the WWF so long when I was
(02:10):
a kid and first got into wrestling, and then the
incredible bad guy Turn which launched, along with Scott Hall
and Kevin Nash, the nWo, the New World Order, which
I think I should in another whole era of sports
entertainment and another way of how this stuff interacted with
with popular culture. And I think I'm gonna miss Hogan terribly,
(02:32):
and all I can say so hopefully any other fans
out there listening is nWo for life. And with that said,
I should get into somebody I'm super excited is joining
me today. He's one of my favorite people in the
entire Cryptid paranormal documentary space. He's been on the show before.
(02:53):
He's an incredibly talented filmmaker, so he's a documentarian as
well as being an outdoorsman and an avid research who's
constantly searching for the unknown. He travels across North America
in the world, He's looked into various mysteries, including cryptosological
creatures like Sapsquatch, the Lockness Monster, the Lake Champlain Monster,
mystery big cats and bizarre phenomena, and mysterious places like
(03:17):
the Bridgewater Triangle and more. He's a small Town Monster's
crew member and has created various documentaries and docuseries about
these mystery topics, most notably of which is a Bigfoot
Beyond the Trail, which is a mass over twenty million
collective views on YouTube. So I'm delighted to welcome back
to the show again. One of my favorite people in
(03:38):
this entire space, Alexander Pettikov. I can't hear you, alex
I did that before.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
Yeah, I had to do it, Okay, Well, seriously appreciate
you having me on man, really appreciate the kind words
as well, and just glad to be back.
Speaker 4 (03:58):
And I will not hit that mute button again.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Promise, and I do it all. I mean, I'd do
this all the time. I'm constantly muting myself when I'm
coughing and forgetting to unmute. I did it, especially for
the first year or so. My guest or my co
host back then would always be saying, like, on your
mutube a mutue, Deane.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
I'd be like, I think because when I was backstage,
I had my AC on and I just muted it
just even though it doesn't affect a sound, and of
course I forgot to turn it back on. But anyway,
here we are. So it's all good now. But I
hope you're doing well.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Man, man, I hope you are too. I mean, you're
doing well as far as your you know, incredible influence
on you know, cryptozoological filmmaking. The amount of hits your
stuff gets on YouTube, it's freaking phenomenal. It's great. So
I understand why, but it's still phenomenal. Nonetheless, that's cool.
Speaker 3 (04:46):
I'm glad people enjoy watching sometimes me rambling sometimes my adventures,
my misadventures just uh, you know, it's it's fun. I
do a variety of different series, you know. I think
the last time I was on your show is probably
only doing be on the Trail and maybe another show.
Speaker 4 (05:02):
But since then I've started Strange Places.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
As well as the Appalachian Bigfoot File, So you know,
it's cool again.
Speaker 4 (05:09):
I'm glad people enjoy it. You know.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
I see a lot of the comments and a lot
of the messages I get from folks that just they
seem to like it.
Speaker 4 (05:15):
So that's cool by me. You know.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
I don't mind, of course, but I like bringing people
along for the journey. That's also part of it. It's
a big part of it.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Well, I think you do a very good job with
bringing people along. I just have to give a quick
shout out to flat Rockland, who's actually my guest next week.
He's a longtime viewer of the show, and he's somebody
with all kinds of interesting tales to tell who lives
in the Maury Island area, which interestingly is one of
the places I visited to shoot my current feature documentary,
(05:47):
The Man who Invented Flying Sources. But one of the
reasons I'm so interested in your Jersey Devil documentary, which
is what we'll be talking about, so not that is
I didn't get to the Pine Barons, but I did
have a short film last year at the Jersey Devil
Film Festival, which was in Asbury Park.
Speaker 4 (06:04):
So I've heard about that.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
Yeah, for the for the Jersey Devil. Maybe maybe we'll
jump off with that one. I think we absolutely some
of your other work, but I love that it's so great.
I don't know if you want to. I'm guessing most
people have a vague idea of what the Jersey Devil is,
but maybe you could give a little bit of an
overview about where it's located, what the park Barents are like,
what the Devil is for those people who don't, who
(06:28):
aren't familiar with the story.
Speaker 4 (06:30):
Yeah, absolutely, And I'm not an expert.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
By any means. You know, there's certainly people that are
more knowledgeable about the lore and the legend of the
Jersey Devil, but I'll do my best. So basically from
my knowledge to story that originated in an area called
the Pine Barrens, which is this fairly unique environment in
kind of southern coastal New Jersey. People think of New Jersey,
they usually think of Newark, just outside of New York City,
(06:55):
you know, very urban, no woods, maybe Atlantic City, and
actually the Pine Barrens is this it's like a almost
a sugar sand type environment with these a lot of pine,
like very ancient pines, and it's just it looks like
a kind of very primordial place. But it's very flat.
I mean, it's completely in terms of elevation, there's barely
anything right. So in my film you could see some
(07:18):
of the visuals, you know, from the drone looking into
the forest and there's just nothing but trees as far
as you can see. So it's this pretty interesting habitat.
It's kind of this bastion of wilderness in the middle
of a very populated area. You've got New York City
on one side, Atlantic City, and then Philadelphia kind of
to the northwest of it, so it's really surrounded by
a lot of people. In New Jersey is one of
(07:39):
the most densely populated states in the US, so you know, there's.
Speaker 4 (07:43):
Not a lot of space, I guess you could say.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
But then the Pine Barrens is over a million acres
of various protected land like forest, a state forest and
state parks and that sort of thing.
Speaker 4 (07:53):
So it has an area that's because of the way
it is.
Speaker 3 (07:56):
It's this kind of remote place. I mean, it's not
Alaska remote that's that's totally different story. But it is
remote enough for that part of the country, and you know,
it has this kind of mysterious feel and allure to it.
There's a lot of legends that have originated out of
that area, and probably the most famous one, of course,
is that of the Jersey Devil, which is this Some
people call it cryptid, some people call it paranormal. I
(08:19):
don't know, you know, because I'm skeptical of the whole story.
I think it's really interesting folklore, but you know, I
don't believe there's like a physical creature.
Speaker 4 (08:27):
I think maybe it's something paranormal. I don't know.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
I really don't know, but just for the sake of
the argument, I will lay out what it is.
Speaker 4 (08:33):
It's essentially this kind of winged creature.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
That's that has been reported for quite a while in
the areas around the Pine barrens. The possible origin story
is tied in with kind of early America, early settler
folk tale as well with what was called the Leeds Devil,
which was there was a Leeds family and the wife
was giving birth to what was called the what was
(08:57):
their thirteenth child, and suppose she cursed it and it
came out as this hideous, devil looking creature that you know,
then kind of took off into the Pine barrens. That's
sort of the abridged version. There's a lot of other
weird stories associated with the origin story. From what I
was told when I was working on this documentary, I
heard about Ben Franklin was involved. The Leeds family was unpopular,
(09:20):
and this was like a spear campaign against them to
say that their child was this devil like creature. So,
you know, I don't know exactly what was going on,
but it is this story, and it's interesting because you
talk to different people and they have different interpretations of
what it looks like. Some people it's kind of this
winged looking cryptid thing. To others it's almost like a
It has like a horse face, wings and flying as
(09:44):
kind of present horse hoofs, that sort of thing. Kind
of an amalgamation of different animals put together. So yeah,
it has a lot of prominence. Of course in the
Pine Barrens. It's sort of the I guess you want
to call the patron of the Pine Barrens. You know,
it's kind of the area with known for and again
people believe it's encryptid some people think it's more supernatural.
(10:05):
Others it's just an interesting kind of truly American style
of folklore, you know, that originated in that area, that
has connections to early you know, like I said, Ben Franklin,
possibly and other parts of the story. And I'm probably
doing a terrible job of explaining this, but that's the
sort of origins. And there have been supposedly flaps of
sightings of this thing over the years up until the
(10:28):
modern day. Supposedly now, some of the researchers I talked
to believe that, you know, they're a little bit more
skeptical of that sort of stuff in the modern era
or even that it exists. And I would have to
say fallow in that category. I think it's just a
really cool kind of folkloreic tale.
Speaker 4 (10:43):
I don't know how it originated. There's a lot of
weird theories, but one.
Speaker 3 (10:47):
Of my favorite shows ever covered it in one of
the first episodes of The X Files, classic show from
the nineteen nineties. Many people in this space will of
course be familiar with The X Files, and I think
it was the third or fourth episode of season one.
They did a Pine Barrens Jersey Devil episode and they
almost took like a big Foot approach to it, where
they made it into actually a feral human that was
(11:08):
a group of feral humans living out in this pine
barrens environment praying on homeless people. And you know, that's
one of the only episodes where there's a few Bigfoot
references in the entire X File shows.
Speaker 4 (11:17):
So I always had that.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
Kind of episode in my mind, especially when I was
working on this video, as well as the show The Sopranos,
another really great show that is just awesome, one of
my favorites, and they have a very one of the
best episodes of the whole show actually takes place in
the pine barrens where these two mobsters get lost out there.
Speaker 4 (11:38):
There's no Jersey Devil.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
I think it's kind of eluded, but there's nothing, you know,
to allude to, you know, the Jersey Devil is just
it's kind of in the background. But it's a very
funny and comedic, kind of dark humor episode.
Speaker 4 (11:50):
So those, yeah, two.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
Of my favorite shows dealt with the Pine barrens, and
that was my first trip to the Pine barrens. So
that's kind of the origin story a little bit onto
the Pine Barrens and the Jersey Devil itself.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
It's a great over view and I would I'd love
to go out there. Like I said, when I was there,
my girlfriend and I were there at the Jersey Devil
Film Festival. I really wanted to get out the Pine Bearns.
But it's not really close to where the festival. It's like,
maybe one day I'll twist your arm into taking me.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
I mean, I'm again, I'm no expert, but there's plenty
of That was my first time ever actually.
Speaker 4 (12:21):
Going to the Pine Barrens.
Speaker 3 (12:22):
You know, New Jersey has this reputation that it's kind
of of no fence to anybody who was in New Jersey,
but kind of like a reputation.
Speaker 4 (12:30):
It's kind of like the armpit of America.
Speaker 3 (12:32):
Because again, you drive through parts of New Jersey, the
northern part, especially like in the outside of New York City,
it's like all this industrial wasteland. Speaking of Sopranos, you know,
a lot of the episodes took place in that area
because that's where those mobsters are from, and they're like
dumping industrial waste in all these places. So that's what
people think of as New Jersey. But in reality, you
go down to Pine barrens. It's a beautiful place. I mean,
(12:52):
don't get me wrong, creepy at night because your mind
is racing thinking, oh, what's going on out here? But
it is a beautiful, beautiful and again from what I
was told, is a very unique habitat environment wise. It's
something that you might find much further south in like
parts of South Carolina and some of those areas, but
it just happens to.
Speaker 4 (13:11):
Be, you know, pretty far north for being New Jersey.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Horace Smith has a great question or throw to win
a minute. I was about to make a similar point,
but I'll ask his question. But I will just make
the point and then I'll ask his question. That I
really appreciate in your filmmaking that you're very objective in
your telling of when you're suspicious of the reality of
(13:38):
something like in this film. This isn't any spoilers because
it's just it doesn't show anything that happens, but it's
some of your narrative. It's like, initially you're, as you said,
you're suspicious that the Jersey Devil story might just be,
you know, some type of legend. But the other point
that you make is that it being so landlocked that
(13:59):
you're even suspicio of some of the tales about bigfoot sidings.
And we'll get to both of those in a minute,
but let's just throw to Horace Smith's question. Horrace Smith
is a good friend of the show. He's been a
guest on the show. He's also the professor Emmerius of
astronomy and Physics at Michigan State University. Very his questions
are always very insightful, and he says, how does Alexander
(14:21):
balance the exciting stories with the sometimes less exciting skeptical
side when he makes a video?
Speaker 4 (14:27):
Now, that's a great question.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
I personally just kind of go with my gut how
I feel about something. If I think something's a little
too good to be true, I will probably say that,
you know. Like, so I'll say this first, Beyond the
Trail series and Strange Places, I'm kind of I have
myself on camera, so a lot of times it'll be
me out in the field and I will explain how
I feel about something. So in a case like this
(14:51):
episode Strange Places, what was cool was we're out in
the woods and we spend a couple of days there
in the pine barrens, and that's what I would I
would just kind of pick up a camera and do
these little monologue where I'm explaining how I feel about
this or that story, and I talked about, oh, yeah,
you know, this area being so landlocked. I find hard
to believe there's bigfoot stories, but you know, at the
same time, there's people telling credible stories. I always try
(15:12):
to just balance it out, you know, I give my
personal opinion, but I also want to have other people
who do research these areas.
Speaker 4 (15:20):
So this is my first trip there.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
I'm not going to claim to be some expert, and
you know, I can't make those assumptions, but I can
feature people who do research those areas and kind of
just let them speak their mind. I think what I
try to do in some of my videos is keep
interviews longer. A lot of times, especially see on TV
or you know, other mediums, where an interview will be
(15:42):
cut I mean, you're talking about it can take you
half an hour to film an interview, and this will
be cut down into a very short two three minutes segment, really,
and I think that's just a shame. I try to
keep as much of an interview in as possible if
it's relevant to what's being discussed. I am usually doing
like half an hour interviews anyway with people, so I
try to get big, long chunks of whether they're trying
(16:04):
to get out into the video.
Speaker 4 (16:06):
That's kind of.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
How I just I like to present the facts and if, hey,
you don't have to believe any of it. A lot
of times you will hear me literally on screen as
I mentioned, talking about how I feel about.
Speaker 4 (16:15):
It, but you don't have to listen to me.
Speaker 3 (16:17):
You can listen to the other people featured in the
video and make up your own mind. And ultimately, I
just hope you go do your own investigation or research.
Speaker 4 (16:24):
Into these topics. I mean, don't take byword for it.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
I'm just, you know, featuring an area that I think
is really interesting, like the Pine barrens.
Speaker 4 (16:31):
And that's what's so great about the.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
Series Strange Places is it features locations that I find
weird or intriguing for a variety of reasons. These are
usually places that have some sort of enduring myths, like
the Jersey Devil. Combine that with sasquatch stuff, with weird
abandoned locations, there's just a lot going on. And those
are the kind of areas that I like to feature
in strange places because I think they have a lot
(16:55):
of subject matter there. So you know, I've talked to
people who don't believe any of the parent stuff, but
you're just into like the abandoned stuff, right, So I
guess there's.
Speaker 4 (17:05):
Something for everybody there.
Speaker 3 (17:06):
But I just kind of try to lay everything out
and again let people ultimately make up their own mind.
Speaker 4 (17:15):
I can't hear you. I think you're muted now.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Rookie mistakes.
Speaker 4 (17:20):
We have.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Joeff Fox who's a regular. He's probably one of the
longest views of the show. He asks you, Alex, are
you from Jersey?
Speaker 3 (17:28):
I know the ACI I am not, thankfully just kidding again,
no shade any Jersey people. I'm from New Hampshire, another
state named after a former English territory I guess, or
in Jersey and Hampshire. So I'm from New Hampshire, so
a little bit further north than New Jersey, but I
(17:49):
could a lot of sometimes people confuse it, and it's
kind of unfortunate because New Hampshire is a lot better
of a state.
Speaker 4 (17:54):
But again I'm not being very objective right now, but
there you go.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
Is New Heart in New Hampshire, which one New Heart
one of my favorite sitcoms from like the eighties. I
think they're in New Hampshire or they're in Maine. No,
I think New Hampshire. Is it where?
Speaker 3 (18:13):
Yeah, New Hampshire and May and I mean Maine gets
a lot of like the Stephen King stuff is written
up there.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
I think they're New Hampshire. Yeah, New hot.
Speaker 3 (18:21):
It's also, you know, one of the small states we are,
like New Jersey also one of the original thirteen colonies.
Speaker 4 (18:26):
So yeah, there's a lot of history in this part
of the country. But you know, again, all.
Speaker 3 (18:30):
My Jersey people, I will give you guys something. You
guys have amazing pizza. That New York style, New Jersey
style pizza is really good. So I'm a pizza guy.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
So yeah, be honest, I love it. I love Jersey.
Admittedly I wasn't in Asbury Park, so that's my experience
of Jersey. But I remember May. I think when when
I was there with my girlfriends am Manford, I think
we had a very different idea of what Jersey was
going to be like because of all those Jersey House
or I shows that's exactly everything else. But it was
really nice. It was it was surprisingly nice, to be honest,
(19:03):
I'd love to go back.
Speaker 4 (19:03):
It was good. It's strange.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
Yeah, the whole state is a it's a lot more
suburban areas than you know, just that pure city kind
of you know. And like I said, Soprano is one
of my favorite shows. And actually every time I go
to New Jersey and then especially in North Park, I
try to go to a couple of the filming locations
from the show. So I will go and I will
take pictures in front of that house of one of
(19:26):
the mobsters, or this is the pizza place where he
was at, or it was in the intro. I have
like a whole collage on my phone of photos from
some of these Sopranos locations. But yeah, I mean another
I actually did another video New Jersey back in February,
which was for my appalation Bigfoot File series, which covers
the whole Appalachian Mountain range. And you have a section
(19:46):
that goes through New Jersey High Point State Park into
New York, New York State and you're talking about you're
an hour outside of New York City and there's big
Foot sightings along those those ridges and those mountains. You know,
there's bear, there's deer, lots of other wildline and there's
been multiple big foot sightings. I mean High Point State
Park in northern New Jersey, which is actually at the
Pennsylvania border, has the creature called the Big Red Eye.
(20:08):
That's some park ranger named back in the seventies after
repeated encounters in that park. So that really surprised me.
That part of northern New Jersey was very rural. There's
a lot of farmland. I mean, there was this really
crazy newspaper report I came on from the seventies in
an area where there was chickens being killed and there
was like a bigfoot hunt that went on there in
(20:30):
the seventies and there's some pretty interesting stuff. So yeah,
that's another area that surprises you in terms of, you know,
it's part of Jersey. It's very different than the Pine
Barrens because it's got some hills and I mean little mountains,
little kind of rolling hills. But again the Appalation Trail
goes through there. You do have some big foot sightings
and I covered that back in February, and there was
(20:51):
other strange stories in that area in those areas too,
But that's a lot closer to New York City. But
you go down to the pine barrens, and that's a
totally different environment, but you know.
Speaker 4 (21:00):
It's got its own unique kind of look to it
and everything.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
One of the points that the documentary touches on when
you're interviewing various researchers and witnesses in the area is
that potentially the Jersey Devil and Bigfoot is one and
the same, and maybe Jersey Devil sidings have been misidentifications
of Bigfoot. Is that something you can chat about a
little bit.
Speaker 4 (21:24):
Yeah, that's something that came up a few times with
some of the researchers. Now, admittedly, some of the people I.
Speaker 3 (21:29):
Was interviewing were primarily kind of Bigfoot researchers, but some
of them thought, hey, you know, maybe some of these
Jersey Devil sightings are people seeing Bigfoot. You need to
see some large creature in the brush and you can't
really see it.
Speaker 4 (21:42):
Maybe there's glowing red eyes, and they're thinking, oh, it
must be the Jersey Devil.
Speaker 3 (21:46):
And I think this is kind of interesting because you
do have a lot like especially on the East Coast,
and this is something in my appalation Bigfoot File Series
two that I've covered with some of the researchers talking
about these coast is a lot older than say the
West Coast, where you know, a lot of the Bigfoot
and sasquatch lore kind of originated from the East Coast
has a lot more hauntings, colonial stuff, ghost stories, older history,
(22:10):
so there's a lot more ghost stories, like even up.
Speaker 4 (22:12):
Here, especially up here in New England.
Speaker 3 (22:14):
I should say, there's certain stories that really intrigued me
because they'll talk about a you know, island or place
in the woods where it's haunted and there's a you know,
ghosts that throw rocks at you and let out these screams,
and you kind of think about that for a second,
You're like, that kind of sounds like bigfoot stuff, right,
Maybe is that what they're interpreting it as. And I've
(22:34):
talked to a couple of people too that have you know,
had you know, encounters or or are aware of encounters
that have happened that fit the hallmarks of a bigfoot encounter.
And the person who had the encounter was like, well,
I don't believe Bigfoot's not exist. Bigfoot doesn't exist. What
I saw was a ghost. It's one of those things
that's kind of like, well, you know how do you
how do you explain that? So, I think there's a
(22:54):
phenomena going on where more people believe or feel to
the paranormal or superna natural ghosts and that sort of
thing is real. That might that's actually probably easier for
more people to understand than or wrap their heads around
and believe in Bigfoot. So I think there are certain
cases that, you know, whether it's some of these Jersey
Devil stories or some of the ghost stuff that's like
(23:16):
bigfoot behavior that's being misinterpreted as a ghosts or rationalized
the way as ghosts I should say it. Which again
it's like, you know, I've been the things with the
events with people who are more into the ghost stuff,
and they kind.
Speaker 4 (23:28):
Of laugh at the idea of Bigfoot, and I'm like,
who are you to laugh at that? It's like, you
guys are the ghostuff.
Speaker 3 (23:34):
A lot of people think that's crazy too, right, It's
like the alien people, the Bigfoot people, and the ghost
people that are all laughing at each other, and then
the rest of society is just laughing at them for
all believing and crazy stuff.
Speaker 4 (23:43):
But you know, my point is, yeah, some of the theories.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
Are that Jersey Devil stories might be missaid. If a
big Foot sightings, I mean, maybe it happens. I sure,
why not, again, if it's in the right settings. But
I don't know how you're going to mistake a giant,
flying winged thing for you know, Bigfoot. It's one thing.
If it's on the ground level, sure that happens. But
you know, again, those are theories of some of the
(24:06):
folks that look into this stuff. And again I am
more skeptical to Jersey Devil story. I think it's largely folkloric.
You know.
Speaker 4 (24:12):
There are plenty of other stories like.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
That that I think are very intriguing, but I don't
know if they have any kind of reality, especially once
you dig into them. It's kind of, again an amalgamation
of different types of stories and the superstitions kind.
Speaker 4 (24:26):
Of woven into one. So yeah, maybe that's what's going on.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
I know, last time when you were on, we talked
a little bit about window areas and high strangeness and
these kind of ideas that connect potentially different areas of
cryptozoology and euphology and paranormal research. I'll be honest, My position,
(24:53):
and could be entirely wrong, is that perhaps Bigfoot and
the Jersey and ghosts and UFOs, which are also in
your one most recent Strange Places documentary. Maybe they are
somehow interrelated at a level we don't understand. Maybe they
(25:14):
are as people like Raye Haalmer suggested, John Keel, Jacques Valet,
various other authors, Brad Steiger, Patrick Harper, Maybe they're manifestations. Incidentally,
also did did did Jerome Clark? And Who's the Who's
the guy who runs the what my mind? Scott of Blank,
(25:34):
Who's the guy who runs? Lauren Coleman, Jerome Clark? Coleman
The Unidentified and Creatures from the Outer Edge suggested that
all of this stuff was the manifestation from the same
paranormal mechanism. I think is the term that they used,
right and now, of course I think both Lauren Coleman
(25:56):
and Jerome Clark have changed their opinions. But back in
the seventh and these they were very much in that
camp of people like you know, Kiel and Palmer that
they thought that all of this might be interrelated. I
know last time you were still probably dividing them more,
which is fine because none of us know. There's no
experts here, but have any of since we spoke over
(26:19):
a year ago. Have any of your experiences led you
to potentially think these things are more interrelated than you
thought they were before.
Speaker 3 (26:27):
Maybe it's a good question, and I'll kind of I'll
go off a little bit, but I'll tell you, Like
Lauren Coleman, for example, he's the one who coined the
term the Bridgewater Triangle, which is this area in south
eastern Massachusetts. A lot of weird stuff there, crazy murderers
and true crime stuff going on, as well as really
interesting bigfoot sightings, really weird other creatures and lights in
(26:50):
the sky and very credible encounters that have happened over
the years. But the area almost has like an urban
legend status to it now. So Lauren had actually coined
the term Bridgewater trying. And then you've got the Bennington
Triangle over in Vermont, which Joe Citrow, another author who
covered all sorts of stuff, coined Southern Vermont, and I'm
actually working on a video about the Bennington Triangle. And
(27:11):
then there's also the Ossipee Triangle in New Hampshire, which
at coincidentally I'm also working on a video on, and
I've done previous videos on the Bridge Butter Triangle but yeah,
I mean this whole window area flab area thing. See,
I don't know if it really how should I put this.
I don't know if necessarily it's what I believe in it.
But there is certain aspects that are undeniable to these places.
(27:35):
You know, whether you believe in anything paranormal or not,
they do take up on their own. They manifest their
own energy of some kind. You know, people go to
these areas, and even if it's all in our heads,
and again it's an urban legend thing. People are seeking
and going to these areas because they've created this kind
of reputation. Now, you know, I know plenty of people
like the late Great Paulino friend of mine, who used
to delve a lot into the flap area stuff.
Speaker 4 (27:56):
And you know, was investigating a property in Pennsylvania.
Speaker 3 (27:59):
Where I even get the chance to go out and
had some strange stuff happen at But whether or not
these things are related, I still don't know. I mean,
it does seem interesting though, because you have places like
some of these alleged flab areas where you have multiple
things going on at once, Whereas then you'll have areas
like in the Pacific Northwest or Alaska that I've been
(28:19):
to where there seems to be just Bigfoot stuff going on.
There isn't really anything else unusual. So I don't know
what to make of that. I mean, I still do
lean towards, you know, maybe in certain areas, if Bigfoot
is out there, it's some kind of reliced hominid.
Speaker 4 (28:32):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (28:33):
I could be totally wrong about that, absolutely, but maybe
they're even you know, like you're talking about areas that
you know, have these different kind of manifestations. Maybe that's
something totally separate, you know, I heard, I've heard all
kinds of interesting theories about, you know, the interactions between
these things. Maybe you know, people see orbs and sasquatch together.
Is that maybe just a curiosity thing? Because if you
(28:56):
see a deer in an orb together, do you assume
the deer is paranormal? Is because you've got two strange
things going on. A friend of mine from Pennsylvania, Matt Arner,
who's Ah's a great researcher from the state of Pennsylvania.
He's in law enforcement, and he had he had told
me a theory when we were filming some Appalachian Bigfoot
file stuff about Pennsylvania that the natives would talk about,
(29:16):
you know, these these deer and these bucks with their
antlers would try to capture these balls of light, you know,
kind of harness them in their antlers. Yeah, it was
a really kind of interesting story that came up in
a conversation and it's in one of the Appalachian Bigfoot
Files episodes.
Speaker 4 (29:32):
I can't remember which one.
Speaker 3 (29:33):
It might be the Suscan Screamer if you look that
one up, which is a Pennsylvania a kind of lore
about this screaming creature.
Speaker 4 (29:39):
But you know, there seemed.
Speaker 3 (29:40):
There were the theories that there was some kind of
interaction between these deer and these anti these balls of light.
So maybe that's he he brought up the theory. Well,
what if the sasquach is just trying to capture this
thing too. Maybe it's a form of fun, you know.
Are they connected again?
Speaker 4 (29:54):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (29:55):
I mean, there seems to be these areas where more
of this stuff happens, like a Bridgewater Triangle. There's maybe
two things going on. It's either there is more things
going on in one place, or because the area has
such a reputation, if there's more of a spotlight in
an area like that, whereas maybe somewhere else there might
not necessarily be right. So you know, if something goes
(30:15):
on in the Bridgewater Triangle, it's going to be attributed
to being part of the triangle, whereas if it just
goes in some random patch of woods, it was just
it was just a UFO sighting, or oh it was
just a bigfoot sighting. You know, there's no there's nobody
drawing the lines to connect them together.
Speaker 4 (30:30):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (30:30):
Again, it's it's all very interesting, and you know, like
the Bennington Triangle, as I mentioned, I'm working on a
video on that ann Osby Triangle, and they all have
these kind of hallmark instances where you have bigfoot sightings
that are very intriguing, and then other things going on
and abandoned ghost towns, seen of some great tragedy, conflict
like the Bridgewater Triangle, some of the really first wars
(30:53):
between settlers and the natives of Wampanoag and others. So
it seems like almost areas where there's been a lot
of kind of strange I don't want to say not atmospheric,
but like either geological conditions or great tragedies have happened
there I mean the Bennington Triangle in Vermont. There's entire
(31:15):
communities that are now ghost towns that are in this
wilderness area that used to be inhabited, Whereas the Asopi
Triangle in New Hampshire is centered basically on this perfectly
circular mountain range that's considered to be this ancient volcano.
So I don't know if that has anything to do
with it. I mean talk about, you know, strange places.
I've also covered the Brown Mountain Lights down in North Carolina,
(31:37):
which some people theorize it's totally normal. It's just maybe
some weird geological thing. People say it's ghosts, some people
say it's orb stuff. So there's a lot that we
don't know. And I'm not going to say that I
know a lot. But what I do know is that
some of these places, again, whether you give any of
this stuff power or not, whether you believe in it,
(31:59):
you're the most skeptical person. You cannot deny a place
like the Bridgewater Triangle is not its own entity at
this point because it's one of the most Like the
Bermuda Triangle, it's one of the most famous and popular,
well known kind of paranormal flap areas. If there's podcasts
about it every week, there's all kinds of stuff about it,
So whether we like it or not, it's become an
urban legend.
Speaker 4 (32:19):
You know.
Speaker 3 (32:19):
Again, I don't think you need to be a staunch
believer or or denier to at least kind of examine
these areas. And you know, Bridgewater Triangle is the scene
of horrific murders and possible cult activity. You know, that
has very real world consequences. That's not just you know,
an inconsequential Bigfoot sighting or UFO that was seen by
(32:40):
very credible witnesses. It's you know, people died for whatever
reasons in these areas, and maybe that has something to.
Speaker 4 (32:45):
Do with it.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
I don't know, Man, every responsive views makes maybe one
ask about ten more questions because it's so fantastic. You're
so insightful and interesting. You've got so much, so much
data there. Why do you think triangles? You know, like
there's so many, Like you said, the Bermuda Triangle is
probably the one everybody knew about first. Like that goes
back to being popularized when I was like a little kid. Yeah, right,
(33:08):
but why all these what do you think that is
about the triangle.
Speaker 3 (33:11):
I think we can we can blame Lauren Coleman for
that one. Now, I'm just kidding that. I've known Lauren
for a number of years. He's great. You know, his
museum up in Maine is awesome. The International Cryptosology Museum.
Had the pleasure to interact with him quite a few
times and visit the museum and attend the conferences there.
But he did and you know, kind of get that
whole triangle thing popularized by you know, like you said,
(33:34):
the Bermuda triangle was something that was popular in the seventies.
So I think the fascination with the triangle. A lot
of people would argue these areas are not perfect triangles.
It's not like, oh, here's a triangle, and activity stops
the moment you go outside of the area of the triangle.
I mean, people would argue the Bridgewater Triangle, there's stuff
(33:55):
that's happened technically south of the actual apex of the triangle.
But people usually they'll connect three towns or features that
will be kind of each point of the triangle, but
there's spillover stuff going on. I think a triangle is
just easy to understand. It's just one of those things
that drawing a line on a map, we as humans,
you know, we tend to kind of identify with that.
(34:17):
If it was the Bridgewater or the Bermuda splotch or
you know, splatter, it just I don't think.
Speaker 4 (34:24):
It has the same ring to it. You know, it's
not easy. It's a lot messier that way.
Speaker 3 (34:29):
A triangles clean and neat, and we call other things,
you know, mostly paranormal now, but there are also like
the Golden Triangle in Southeast Asia, there's a drug smuggling route.
You know, I'm sure they smuggle those drugs in areas
that are not part of that triangle, but it's just again,
it's an easy way for us to understand an area.
So like the Ossipe Triangle up here in New Hampshire
(34:49):
is one that is pretty pretty relatively unknown actually, so
again it's just easy to rationalize it away as a triangle,
whereas in reality most of the stuff happens in kind
of a circle because that's the mountain range.
Speaker 4 (35:02):
There is this perfect little circle.
Speaker 3 (35:04):
So yeah, I think the triangle is just easy to
identify with, and they're here to stay. You know, there's
so many paranormal triangles now again, Virgiliter Triangle is basically
the one after the original Bermuda Triangle that kind of
gave way to certainly the Bennington and Ousti triangles. These
are the ones that I'm most familiar with because we
New England have three triangles. I don't think we have enough.
Apparently you've got the Alaska Triangle now, I mean all
(35:27):
Devil's Triangle in outside of Japan, I believe in the Ocean,
which is kind of also model off the Bermuda Triangle.
And from what I understand that the Bermuda Triangle is basically
also they just drew lines on a map and said
it falls in this area and that's you know, from
the island of Bermuda to I think somewhere in the
Bahamas and maybe the coast of Florida, and that's kind
(35:48):
of like considered to be the triangle.
Speaker 4 (35:50):
So it's usually the same with all these triangles.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
You know.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
That's great. I never heard anybody use the example of
the Golden Triangle or angles that we make, but it
does put into perspectives that as humans, we want to
find patterns in things where there isn't a precise pattern.
We want a precise pattern because it just makes it
easy to talk about and easier to think about when
(36:13):
you do it like that, so that that makes total sense,
totally unrelateable to something else you're talking about, which I
really wanted to hit. Was you spoke before about an
incident where a bigfoot killed chickens, And in my limited
I'll get you to talk about. But in my limited
because I'm not a cryptozoological guy at all. I mean,
I guess UFOs are probably my wheelhouse. And then American
(36:36):
cultural history, but there seem to be a lot of
like bigfoot seem to be killing more pet rabbits and
dogs and chickens and very back in the seventies, like
back when we're back when Coleman and Clark wrote those
books and other people John Keel and other people were
just pushing all this very strange material out. There seem
(36:58):
to be more examples of doing this stuff. So you
can talk about a little bit more of you want
to about the case you mentioned, But is this something
you bump into currently as well, Like is this stuff
still going on or does it seem to be something
that was locked more in the past.
Speaker 3 (37:13):
It's interesting, actually I kind of made not the mistake,
but well I did actually I said chickens. This incident
New Jersey actually involved rabbits. So I found a newspaper
article I was just checking out, and it was rabbits.
It was a rabbit killing incident, and it led to
an autopsy of the rabbits, and it was in this
kind of rural area. I actually have the newspaper clipping here.
(37:37):
Let me see if I can read off that real quick.
Let's see. Well, I can't find it now, but yeah,
bigfoot in Jersey kills farm rabbits and I can't the
text is too small here. But basically, it was this
incident in the seven I think it was thinking seventy
six or around then, where there's this kind of crazy
These people were swear up and down that this thing
(37:58):
was killing rabbits and twisting their necks, and there's an
autopsy done.
Speaker 4 (38:02):
They believed it was done by hands.
Speaker 3 (38:04):
And yeah, there does seem to be instances like that,
but I've heard believed they or not modern stories of
bigfoot killing stuff. A friend of mine research up here
in New Hampshire, has a pretty harrowing story of a
woman claiming she saw her dog get taken off into
woods and killed by one of these things while hiking
a pretty remote mountain area. She called the authorities and
they just said it was probably a bear, and she
obviously was pretty upset because it killed her dog. Obviously,
(38:28):
I can't say what happened. I wasn't there, either was
my friend, but he talked to this woman took the report.
There's another story I heard, I think, also from the eighties. Well, actually, yeah,
I guess that's a little more an older story too.
But there are others, you know, there's other stories people
being seen big foot taking hogs, taking other animals, deer.
I don't know if there's really, to my knowledge, stories
(38:51):
that are, you know, more so in the older ages,
in older reports more violent. I think there's a pretty
insistent pattern of those. They're pretty rare in general, though
they're not like the norm. You know, you encounter certain
types of animal that exhibit certain behaviors that are pretty consistent.
Right well, whereas this seems it's a pretty rare kind
(39:14):
of story. I mean, I heard a story from Louisiana,
just from a few years ago when I was down
there in this area and you're the Honey Island swamp
of this guy losing his dogs and something bringing the
head of the dog back and.
Speaker 4 (39:25):
Leaving it in the yard. And this is an area
where you had some kind of.
Speaker 3 (39:28):
Encounters, and this is pretty recent, so there just seem
to be a lot of dog encounters that are negative.
And then I see people say, oh, well, these things
hate dogs, and I hear other people say, well, no,
they love dogs. So I don't think anybody really knows.
But you know, you can have some scary moments if
you're out there hiking and you have your dog with
you and all of a sudden there's some kind of
incident with whatever animal. I mean, you run into a
(39:50):
bear or a moose or a deer. It can be
pretty frightening. So imagine something that's not supposed to exist
suddenly coming out and taking your dog.
Speaker 4 (39:58):
I mean, you're probably gonna I.
Speaker 3 (40:00):
Think you're crazy, But you know, at the same time,
you probably knew what you know, what you saw, you
know what you experienced. So yeah, that was an interesting
case that that Jersey. If you look it up, you
can search like a New Jersey rabbit killing, bigfoot incident
or something like that, and it'll come up. You'll get
(40:20):
some hits on that. Again, it's one of those kind
of prolific stories and supposedly the nearer the farm where
it happened was where Lou Dobbs, who was like a
I guess he was a commentary on Fox. I think
he was like a bit more of a business guy.
I never really watched his stuff, But he apparently had
bought the property that this bigfoot incident had happened on. Yeah,
(40:44):
and not because of that just happened to be an
area that was far enough outside of New York City.
And one of the researchers I was with, I believe
they told me that someone on air or at one
point asked him about this incident. He said, I have
no idea, but it just happened to be the property
that was formerly owned by somebody else that he had bought.
Speaker 4 (41:03):
So that's kind of a fun connection there.
Speaker 2 (41:05):
They're mentioned getting that property. This is the chicken Bigfoot.
Speaker 4 (41:09):
Big There was an autopsy.
Speaker 3 (41:13):
Yeah, it's it's a very very wild incident, very interesting
called wolf Pit Road. That's the area where it happened
in Wantage, New Jersey. If you want to look that up,
Bigfoot killing chickens. I'm sure you could find it. Our chickens.
Speaker 4 (41:25):
I keep saying chickens, rabbits, bigfoot killing rabbits, New Jersey.
Speaker 2 (41:28):
Yeah, it's it's interesting because there's I think that in
some states. I think there's laws where you've got to
disclose of the murders happen on the property. We need
to have like a cryptid disclosure, ghost disclosure policy.
Speaker 3 (41:43):
There was a ghost encounter on this in this barn,
you know, Yeah, you have to put that in there.
It makes you wonder, Yeah, because I've heard the stories
of people moving into places and having stuff happen and
they're like, well, I don't really expect that. I've even
heard of people buying places that have a known an
alleged history.
Speaker 4 (42:01):
I mean that that was going on with that.
Speaker 3 (42:03):
Conjuring house, you know, from about people are lining up
to try to buy that. There's been other places. We
even heard of properties out west where allegedly bigfoots lived
and people would try to buy you know, these areas
and experience some kind of activity. So hey, I mean,
if find the right buyer, I guess, you know, I'm
sure there's plenty of people willing to do.
Speaker 2 (42:23):
Something like that, but there's all kinds of airbnb possibilities.
I do think that some people do buy these because
in fact, I don't say I think, I know that
some people acquire these kind of properties and then they're
particularly haunted ones, like ghosty paranormal ones, and then paranormal
teams will want to come in and investigate, you know,
with all their equipment. Yeah, and they'll go, Okay, it's
(42:46):
five hundred dollars a night or something, so there can
be a financial benefit in one of these joints.
Speaker 4 (42:53):
They do that.
Speaker 3 (42:53):
I think with the Lizzie Borden House in Fall River, Massachusetts,
which is right outside of technically it's part of the
Bridgewater Triangle, but it's outside of the triangle itself. But
the lazy, bored and murders are very notable. But I
know people who have gone there with their coats hunting
teams and they've stayed a night there. So you pay
to stay and then you can you know, explore and
(43:14):
do ghost stuff after hours.
Speaker 4 (43:16):
Which is interesting.
Speaker 3 (43:18):
But then again you get instances where people buy a
place and just stuff starts happening whether they like it
or not. Like my friend up in Alaska with you know,
code named aria A. The property he's got with all
the activity that's been featured in some of my Alaska videos.
He wanted none of that. He just wanted a place
to build a cabin and go fishing and hunting.
Speaker 4 (43:37):
That's it.
Speaker 3 (43:38):
He didn't want to get rocks thrown at him. He
didn't want to have weird sounds and people seeing large
things moving in the trees. That was not at all
in his agenda. And you know, he doesn't want that
kind of He never wanted that kind of thing. So
there's plenty of stories like that too. So I don't
know if there's a rhyme or reason to it.
Speaker 2 (43:55):
Necessarily, I never thought because I'm like again, I'm conscious
of the normal houses. I don't know if anybody out
there is airbnbing en crypted houses or like you know, having
like a website, like a lot of these famous ordered
houses have webs. Yeah, is there is there a crypto
property calm Bigfoot will attack you, and there's.
Speaker 4 (44:13):
There's got to be. I know there's a few, you know,
Bigfoot themed airbnbs.
Speaker 3 (44:18):
I think I want to say, Uh, I don't know
it's Charlie Raymond or one I think in Kentucky.
Speaker 4 (44:24):
I know, maybe.
Speaker 3 (44:24):
It wasn't airben It was like a little hotel kind
of thing, but there's been definitely, I think a few
places where people make it the theme. I'm sure if
you go to lock Ass or something, there's probably a
nasty themed hotel or a nasty themed airbnb, and that's
that's fun.
Speaker 4 (44:40):
That's a cool concept.
Speaker 2 (44:43):
And you know what, I would love to go to Lockness.
We had a question from flat Rockland too. Again is
a guest on the show next week, So for flat
Rockland friends and fans, tune into Talking Weird same time
next week. He says, those are some fun videos, Alexan.
Any more info on the hand print on the back
of the cabin.
Speaker 3 (45:02):
Nope, Doug, Doug Highcheck would be one to know. Perhaps
he has he has the samples and it'll be part
of legend Meed Science too, from what I understand. So
I know as much as as you guys that that
was a twenty two So yeah, that was about three
years ago that we sent the samples in. So as
you guys know, that project is not out yet, so
(45:25):
hopefully hopefully something interesting will be there. But yeah, we
had the samples collected by Larry Beans Baxter, a retired
cop body of mine, and you know he did all
the forensic stuff and put it together and sent it off,
had multiple swabs and samples, so who knows. Hopefully it
comes back as something at least I'd like to just
know one way or.
Speaker 4 (45:43):
Another was it. Can you determine its human or non
human primate? What?
Speaker 3 (45:47):
I don't know. I just want to know something right.
Any result I think is better than just not knowing,
because the not knowing part is almost worse because you
don't have a conclusion. But as as goes so often
with this type of material, we often are left with
more questions than we have answers. But with genetic testing,
hopefully we can get an answer.
Speaker 2 (46:07):
Speaking of legend meets science too, from Doug Kichek, who's there,
the head of the Untold radio network. You're in that documentary.
I saw a post that today somebody had shared saying
it's about to be released, and your name was on there. Coincidentally,
given what you're coming on the show.
Speaker 3 (46:22):
Yes, so I didn't film with them, but I you know, again,
just I guess from that sample that we submitted, So
again I know there was a lot of other people though,
because I know there was a testing going on with
a lot of the leged samples. So I'm just excited
to see because I know a lot of the other
people that have submitted samples too, are great credible researchers.
Speaker 4 (46:39):
So it'll be really interesting to see what happens with that.
Speaker 2 (46:45):
Here's me putting my forty in hat on and when
I say that, I'm in genuinely in acolyte of Charles
for somebody who was suspicious of the scientific establishment, indeed
the methodologies of science. Do you expect there to be
some type of scientific reveal or discovery or evidence coming
(47:08):
forward which science on codes or cracks and actually presents,
is this is proof that there's a relictominode or you know,
a great American undiscovered a living amongst us, Like, do
you expect there's going to be some type of scientific
reveal or what's your what's your position on sciences interactions?
Speaker 3 (47:27):
Yeah, community, I mean, I mean, I would certainly hope.
So I think it would be very interesting to see
what happens. I personally, I'm at the point where I
would just like to kind of I'm not entirely sold,
but I am pretty certain there's.
Speaker 4 (47:41):
Something going on.
Speaker 3 (47:41):
Some of the experience that I've had, I've never seen
anything I would like, you know, I mean, the thing is,
if I get a video tomorrow, right, even if it's
a thermal half of people's here and say it's fake,
it's AI. And now with AI, you can't trust anything, visual, photo, nothing,
It's all out the window. So I think it would
be cool, you know, you could prove hey, this is
(48:01):
not fake by going you know, having.
Speaker 4 (48:03):
It checked by a variety of people and let people
tear it apart.
Speaker 3 (48:07):
And that's what you should do with any alleged evidence you have,
is let unbiased parties ask tough questions and poke and
prod and you know, just to see if it's legital.
You'll withstand the scrutiny, right. If it's not, you'll crumble.
And that's what happens with a lot of these hoaxers.
But when it comes to, you know, if there's like
a discovery, I was sure, hope. So I don't know
if that's going to happen, But you know, I think,
(48:29):
I mean, I'm not a scientist, I'm not scientifically trained.
I try my best to kind of be a citizen
scientist when I can, so if I do find something interesting,
at least I can give it to somebody who might
have that training, whether they be you know, form or
law enforcement. They literally do this for a living where
they collect evidence to try to prove a crime or
or whatever the case may be. I like to be
(48:50):
able to pass off to people who do have those
credentials because I think they have more of an ability
to actually research this stuff or.
Speaker 4 (48:57):
Determine what it is one way or another.
Speaker 3 (48:59):
You know, we've hair samples we've found before and get
them sent in for microscopic analysis, and they can say
that was a lynx, like, oh man, that was really
high up. That was crazy. I guess the cat jumped
up a climb. But you know, again, you have some
sort of conclusion we'll be going with this.
Speaker 4 (49:13):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (49:13):
I mean, if it is a relic dolminate, I would
imagine the walls you're closing in. I mean, within the
next decade maybe, I don't know. I feel like we've
been saying that for a long time though, And if
it is paranormal, then that opens a question of will
we ever be able to get there until maybe, you know,
maybe in fifty sixty years from now, where we are
operating in a different way of understanding the world because
(49:35):
there's clearly there's things that you know are not really
necessarily explainable in the moment, right. I mean, but I
often look at this in the way that you look
back in the past. You try to explain radio technology
or Wi Fi to somebody in the seventeen or sixteen hundreds,
and they'll probably get you killed for being a witch
or a wizard. You know, i'h watch this, I'm going
(49:56):
to send a message on this glowing rock and it's
going to go to somebody Germany.
Speaker 4 (50:00):
Instantly. Get out of here.
Speaker 3 (50:03):
That's that's that's total sorcery. That does that should not exist, right,
That's what they would probably tell you. So two hundred
years from now, I mean, are we going to have
some way as humans? Is there mean something else that's
you know, I don't know, I mean interdimensional stuff?
Speaker 4 (50:18):
Is that going to be normal at some point? I
really have no idea.
Speaker 3 (50:21):
I just think we're kind of at this precipice now
as a species where you know, we have so much
technology at our disposal, and it's we're kind of trending
in this one direction. What will it help us out
in the end or will we just become you know,
slaves to our own technology. I think that's the question
a lot of people are maybe asking themselves. I'm not
trying to get too philosophical or anything in here, but
(50:44):
you know, I think we also have to be careful
we don't become totally dependent on this kind of stuff.
Speaker 4 (50:47):
But that was a really.
Speaker 3 (50:48):
Roundabout answer to a question. I will say this because
I don't like to give absolutes when I answered generally.
But I sure hope we get some kind of resolution.
If we don't, then I don't know. I think that'll
people who are more into the paranormal side of things
will say, hah see, But then how do you prove
that eventually?
Speaker 4 (51:08):
You know, do you get to that point? I don't know.
Speaker 3 (51:11):
I'd like to say I remain hopeful, but again, I
could be totally wrong. We could all be totally wrong.
It could be something totally different, or this could all
be somehow, some weird collective manifestation of giant Harry Apeman
and other strange phenomena in the woods that, for whatever reason,
we've been seeing for a long time and it cannot
seem to get to the bottom of.
Speaker 4 (51:32):
Maybe that's what's going on. It's I think the open ended.
Speaker 3 (51:35):
This is what attracts a lot of people to these topics,
I think because once you get into it, you think, oh,
this will be easy album going to solve this, and
then you realize so many people have been in that
position before and haven't gotten to that point that you
kind of change. You have to change your mindset, you
have to adjust your expectations. You know, I've been doing
this long enough now where you have the time when
I get people messaging me about stuff and I have
(51:58):
this amazing footage or this or that, I temper my expectations,
not to say I don't like any of that kind
of stuff, but you know, you can only see it
so many times and be like, well, I don't know.
It's kind of a Rorschac test. You kind of see
what you want to see, unless it's something super differentive.
I mean, we're still arguing about the Patterson Gimmel film,
which was taken in nineteen sixty seven, so you know
we need a lot better than that to be able
(52:20):
to move the needle or.
Speaker 4 (52:22):
To just move things forward.
Speaker 3 (52:24):
So yeah, I got really that that I don't know
that turn in a little bit of rant there, but.
Speaker 4 (52:29):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (52:31):
I love You're very balanced and that you're you're very thoughtful,
which I which I love in anybody I took to.
I'm not going to ask you what you think of
the pas and give one footage because that's another conversation
preps for another time. What I did want to ask you, though,
was because you're a sportsman like I am, your firearms savvy.
You know, anybody who watches your videos knows that when
(52:51):
you're in dangerous places out in the boon, is your arm,
which I think makes total sense as somebody who's cognizant
of firearms. It ever make you like, makes me, to
be honest, think there are millions of people out in
the woods in North America with firearms. Why people often say,
(53:13):
well there's no bigfoot body, because well, when things die
in the woods, they decay quickly and they get eaten
by you know, the other little animals, and you know,
it all breaks down. But it doesn't bother me a way.
We don't have a body because one's dying naturally. What
bothers me is why somebody in North America hasn't pulled
the trick on one and then got a body as
a result of it.
Speaker 4 (53:33):
Well, there are stories, of course, there are very few.
Speaker 3 (53:36):
You know, we've covered some on multi monsters, the infamous
justin Smayhows story.
Speaker 4 (53:41):
You know, there's there's a few others. I suppose the a.
Speaker 3 (53:45):
Canyon there was one killed. You know, there's there's a
lot of There's more than just that. I there's a
few I'm thinking of that I can't quite think off
the top of my head.
Speaker 4 (53:54):
But you know, there's been stories.
Speaker 2 (53:56):
I remember the outbell guy who rang in what was
that guy's name? He rang a bail and were he
buried one? I forget the guys. Yeah, I mean there's
a mythology.
Speaker 4 (54:05):
Yeah, there's been high profile hoaxes.
Speaker 3 (54:07):
Of course, the two thousand and six or two thousand
and yeah, two thousand and six or two thousand and eight,
two thousand and eight Georgia Bigfoot hoax, where you know,
suppose these guys killed this thing. It turned out to
be a freezer full of possum guts with a cheesy
bigfoot costume. So there are these stories, and you know
some of these stories, uh, you know, of these things
being killed. I don't know, I don't know what to
(54:29):
make of it. I mean, you look at primates and
apes in the fossil record, gorillas and chimps are almost
non existent, you know, in terms of fossils. The Gigantipithecus,
the only reason we know it exists is because certain
parts of teeth were found in caves, and the only
reason those were even preserved were because porcupines were dragging
the bones into caves that allowed it to fossilize.
Speaker 4 (54:50):
And you know, you look at typically the environments where
a lot.
Speaker 3 (54:52):
Of these things are reported, and they're they're acidic, they're
not great for fossilization and that sort of thing.
Speaker 4 (54:58):
So I don't know, Again, we could all be wrong
about what's going on out there. You know.
Speaker 3 (55:04):
I think if these things are as smart as they
supposedly are, they probably be pretty good at avoiding people.
Speaker 4 (55:09):
But to what degree could you really you know, avoid people? Right?
Speaker 3 (55:14):
And I think some of the stories I've heard from
people out in the woods who are either actively hunting
were armed. You know, a lot of a lot of
people out in the in the back woods armed have
been so freaked out by what they've seen that they
just wanted to get out of there.
Speaker 4 (55:28):
That's a couple of stories that.
Speaker 3 (55:29):
I can think of at the top of my head,
including you know, one of a guy hunting and you're
really getting disturbed by what he was seeing. And you know,
another story I heard from a Reichter friend of mine said,
you know, he said, I don't think this this rifle
would have been big enough to kill this thing. So
you know, you can always I don't want to call
them convenient excuses, but you can always pull up stories
like that, you know.
Speaker 4 (55:47):
But I don't know, I mean, I don't know which way,
which way it'll end up going.
Speaker 3 (55:53):
And you have these stories too, of of these things
being hit by cars, you know, the quite a few stories.
You know, even the somebody I know allegedly claims they
hit one of these things and damage inside of their
car and you know, just saw it walk off, and
so you know, you imagine an impact with a vehicle
like might injure something like that. So maybe limbs off
and dies somewhere. I mean, I don't know, I don't
(56:18):
know what to make of it, but there certainly is
a lot of different theories. And you know, if there's
not a lot of these things, then I think that
kind of makes sense. But you know, you do hear
so many of these stories. There does seem to be
a lot of stories out there, so how to explain that,
I'm really not sure.
Speaker 2 (56:36):
Scorched Mama said, do you mean the guy named Bugs?
I believe that was in reference to my point about
the person who code an art bail and who had
the mom that was bugs. She's she's that was it? Well,
let's I don't remember that. Yeah, maybe maybe you can
give us a tease for some of the things we
have upcoming on either Strange Places or your other your
(56:59):
other Smoke Monster's regular show.
Speaker 3 (57:02):
Yeah, absolutely so, as I kind of talked about a
little bit getting more into the high strange and stuff
with some of those Strange Places episodes. So the Ossipee Triangle,
which is really interesting because there is one of the
craziest Bigfoot stories I've heard or that I personally have taken,
you know, is like a report took place in this area,
and there's other strange sightings in that place, but there's
(57:23):
also some kind of possible weird connection to Alistair Crowley
and the occult weird as it sounds, it's there. And
then the Bennington Triangle I'm really excited for too. I
have a really interesting story with a friend of mine
who was told by multiple hikers who experienced the same
kind of thing in the same area of Glastonbury Mountain,
which is kind of considered the epicenter of the Bennington Triangle.
(57:46):
Those are two episodes coming out about strange places within
the next few months into the fall. In appllation, Bigfoot
Files just a continuation, very neutral kind of examination of
alleged big stories and encounters in different regions of the Northeast.
And then of course the whole Appalachian Mountains.
Speaker 4 (58:05):
We've covered areas all over, you know.
Speaker 3 (58:07):
I've got a few more Vermont episodes and kind of
the New England area, and then Bigfoot Beyond the Trail.
Speaker 4 (58:14):
There will be a lot more of those coming.
Speaker 3 (58:16):
I have some trips coming up soon that I can't
talk a whole lot about, but some interesting and exciting
locations out west. And then I've got a video called
the Journey to Epe Canyon coming with Beyond the Trail.
So that's going to be going to the actual location
of where the alleged eight Canyon attack happened.
Speaker 4 (58:33):
In nineteen twenty four, but one hundred years later.
Speaker 3 (58:36):
So that's going to be really cool that it's almost
like Bigfoot archaeology because we were discovering actual remnants. I mean,
I've got a shelf over here you can't see, just
out a frame with a whole bag filled with actual
nails and materials from Ape Canyon itself that were from
the cabin site from nineteen twenty four that survived the
(58:56):
Mount Saint Helen's explosion. If you want, if you've got
one second, I can go grab that.
Speaker 4 (59:01):
I'll show you.
Speaker 2 (59:02):
That's the one I'm most interested in with mak Mysel
who got got mos great. I'm assuming most people here
are aware canyon that used to be regularly reenactment supped
in many early documentaries in front of the earliest.
Speaker 3 (59:19):
This is probably going to make a huge mess. But
this bag here, it is filled with all sorts of stuff.
So first of all we have this is some wire
hold rusty wire, and know if you can see that.
Speaker 4 (59:33):
I can from the cabin site. Now I've got an
entire bag more wire. Here's a little.
Speaker 2 (59:40):
Nail for you from the from the canyon.
Speaker 3 (59:43):
From this is from the cant Yeah, I mean I can.
I can hold this up to the camp. I don't
know if you can see this or not. But this
entire bag, I mean, there's so much dirt and stuff.
Speaker 4 (59:52):
And debris in here. But I'll just pull out a handful.
Speaker 2 (59:54):
Show you that historian. That's the stuff I love the most.
Speaker 4 (59:58):
There we go, there's a whole bunch of nails. Wow,
there you go. So this is all from the canyon site.
Speaker 3 (01:00:05):
And I've got a whole bunch of dirt from the
cay in site in this the whole pouch too. You
know these these again, these are this show is that
the area that we were in is absolutely where.
Speaker 4 (01:00:17):
So there's the there's fantastic that.
Speaker 3 (01:00:19):
Is where you know, the a canyon incident. Whether or
not there was an eight man attack, that's you know,
that's irrelevant. The cabin was a real place. I physically
went into the gold mine, the vander White gold mine.
It absolutely was real. I mean I went there. I've
been to that site and it's the one side of
the mountain that somehow survived the the Aunt Saint Helen's explosion.
(01:00:43):
So so yeah, that's a fun video. So STM has
a film coming out about that, whereas I have. When
the film just covers the whole story of the rediscovery
of the Ape cane In site by Mark Marcell. It's
a fantastic researcher. But I was lucky enough to go
on a trek there with Mark Marcell and the whole team.
And my video is more of like physical journey to
get into the canyon repelling down and it's it was.
Speaker 4 (01:01:04):
Quite an adventure. So yeah again.
Speaker 3 (01:01:06):
Oh actually, here's here's a bone too from the canyon site.
This is a deer bone, most likely from a from
some kind of mountain lion kill.
Speaker 4 (01:01:15):
But you know, I've got a whole thing the wire.
I forgot how much of the stuff I have all
left over.
Speaker 3 (01:01:19):
And you know, Mark over the years had found spoons
and forks and shell casings and all kinds of stuff
there at the cabin site. There's nothing left. I mean,
but Shane Corson of the Olympic Project and I had
actually found this one little vein where it looked like
that's where maybe one of the walls was, and that's
where we were finding all these nails and wire, and
it was in this like rotting It was basically buried
(01:01:42):
in this kind of rotting wood. So it was it's
been there for a long time, for one hundred years.
Speaker 2 (01:01:48):
It's just amazing. That's that might be my favorite early
Bigfoot story. I mean it's very early, but it's probably
it might be one of my favorite Bigfoot stories period,
the Canyon story.
Speaker 4 (01:01:59):
There's just at the comments Brown Dwarf.
Speaker 3 (01:02:02):
In the comments there was saying I got one of
those nails from Alex. Yeah, actually I visited him well
when I was I was in Bluff Creek at last
summer after I went to a canyon and I had
all these nails with me and I was giving them
to all my big footing buddies as a souvenirs.
Speaker 4 (01:02:17):
You know, we're there, like you want to. You want
an a canyon nail. Here's an a canyon nail. You know.
Speaker 3 (01:02:21):
It's just a real cool memento of just to you know. Again,
you don't even have to believe in there was a
big Foot attack there, but it is absolutely I mean
there there was a point where people are saying there
was never even a cabin these miners, it's.
Speaker 4 (01:02:32):
All made up story. Mark Marcell was absolutely able.
Speaker 3 (01:02:35):
To I don't want to say debunk it, but basically
debunk the claim that there was not a cabin. That
these guys we were there with two of the descendants
of it's like their great great grandfather or something like
that was one of the miners, and they helped rediscover
this site too, so you know again you can go
to my Facebook and check it out. A couple of
posts back, I've got pictures of going into the mine
(01:02:56):
and looking at the site and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2 (01:03:00):
As an I said, I love that the book that
Fred Beck released, I think his son helped him do
it about.
Speaker 4 (01:03:06):
I think it was like his son kind of wrote
it for him or.
Speaker 1 (01:03:09):
Something like that.
Speaker 2 (01:03:10):
His conclusion was that these things weren't flesh and blood
home and it's there was some kind of paranormal entity.
So to me, that's fascinating as well that one of
the first Bigfoot stories has this one of the key
witness perhaps has this different take, or at least through
his son interpretation. There was there was a question here
(01:03:31):
for you though, which will hit quickly from Can's squatch,
which was how was the hike up to the Epe Canyon?
Speaker 4 (01:03:36):
So the actual hike up eight Canyon is not hard
at all.
Speaker 3 (01:03:39):
It's a pretty well known trail where you can just
get up over the canyon. It's it's I mean, it's easier,
and it's easier than a lot of the trails here
on the east coast where we just go straight up
the mountain. There's a time it was a nice meandering trail.
I mean people would he bike up that trail, that's
how easy it was. But getting into the where the
site was, the cabin site is actually further down into
(01:03:59):
the canon, and that was crazy.
Speaker 4 (01:04:01):
Getting down there was, as you'll see in the video,
very sketchy, to say the least.
Speaker 3 (01:04:06):
You know, you're basically hanging onto ropes and almost repelling
down in there. Yeah, the canyon is steep. That's a great,
great comment. The canyon is crazy steep. I mean, one
wrong step and you are literally dead at at the
bottom of the canyon. So it's not the kind of
place you want to make mistakes. So we were, you know,
being extremely careful and cognizant of all the.
Speaker 4 (01:04:27):
Danger around us.
Speaker 3 (01:04:28):
But you know, it just shows the motivation of oh
my god, these guys built this cabin in this such
a desolate location. And then getting to the mine was
even more treacherous from where the cabin site was. And
I don't know how much of that was affected by
at the Mount Saint Helens eruption. I'm sure it was
covered in some ash and that sort of stuff. But
that one side of the mountain is the only side
that didn't get turned into a moon landscape like the
(01:04:50):
rest of the mountain did, because you know, the lava
flow and everything. That was the one area that there's
still these giant old growth trees. As you're hiking up
to a canyon itself, you've got these giant Douglas fir
trees all around you, whereas and then you get up
certain viewpoints and you look across and it just looks
like the moon all along the side of the mountain.
So this is the one area that got spared somehow,
(01:05:11):
and that happens to be where the cabin in the
mine was. And they were absolutely real places. And you know,
nobody can convince me otherwise because I've literally been there
and seen it. You can argue there wasn't a big
foot attack, sure, but there was definitely a cabin. And
these guys, for whatever reason, they spent years up there.
It's not like they made this story up at the
beginning of their mining career to keep people off of
(01:05:34):
there's apes. Don't go up here, it's dangerous. This was
literally at the end they had already extracted and the
amount that they extracted was not known of gold, but
it was from when newspapers reported it was a good amount.
So they definitely got pretty wealthy off of the findings
of that gold mine. And for whatever reason they had,
this incident happened toward the end of their mining days.
(01:05:55):
It wasn't again like a story that they used to
discourage people from going there, as you know, maybe some.
Speaker 2 (01:06:01):
Would rationalize, Gosh, I'm envious that you've got to go there.
Speaker 4 (01:06:05):
Oh, it was crazy. It was like, you know, it's
like one of those big footing uh.
Speaker 3 (01:06:10):
Just pilgrimage sites, a you know, very you know, it's
one of those places that's it's like Bluff Creek where
the Patterson Gimlin film was taken. That that one's a
little bit easier to get to. You drive in, you
hike in. This is like, man, I please don't try
to do this. You can die.
Speaker 4 (01:06:24):
You know.
Speaker 3 (01:06:24):
I went with people who are very good at what
they do. And you know, Mark Myrcell is a professional
land surveyor.
Speaker 4 (01:06:30):
That's like his day job.
Speaker 3 (01:06:32):
He knows how to get in and out of these places.
And you know, we had all the safety equipment and everything,
so we were equipped. But do not try this at
home and not trying to be a gatekeeper anything. I'm
just saying, you know, I have to have to throw
that disclaimer out there.
Speaker 2 (01:06:44):
Yeah, I think there What's the Ruby Creek is my
other but we can talk about that's my two favorite early.
Speaker 4 (01:06:52):
That's a great story, that's a great, great location.
Speaker 2 (01:06:55):
But so whay do people get ahold of? I mean,
I'll have links in the show notes, but for those
people who might not go to the show notes, how
do people get a hold of what you're doing? And
how do they see your future films as well as
the films we've talked about tonight.
Speaker 3 (01:07:10):
Yeah, I mean the easiest place, honestly is my website,
Petticov Media. That's p e T a k o Vmedia
dot com. I post links to all of my stuff there.
You could also look up small Town Monsters. But we
have a lot of videos. I'm not the only one
who makes videos at small Town Monsters, so you know,
we may have you know, I might have one video
(01:07:30):
come out and then there's three other videos by either
Seth or other people involved with STM putting out serious
so it can become a little confusing. But I post
my stuff directly to my website if you're curious about
any of the stuff we've talked to here, and it's
kind of broken down by section and series and that
sort of stuff. So yeah, either my website or just
look at small Town Monsters and you'll find some of
(01:07:52):
my work, inevitably, and a lot.
Speaker 4 (01:07:53):
Of other cool work. I should say too, because there's
a lot of other stuff being covered by stm.
Speaker 1 (01:07:59):
Well.
Speaker 2 (01:07:59):
I love Small Times, and I particularly love your stuff.
Speaker 4 (01:08:02):
It's always appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (01:08:03):
So fantastic, my friend. Thank you so much for coming
on Talking Weird Night again. It was great to have
you here.
Speaker 4 (01:08:09):
Thanks again for having me on Dian It's been awesome
and anytime. Man, this was fun.
Speaker 2 (01:08:13):
Man. We got to get you back to talk about
eight Canyon. When that one drops, we'll do a full
eight Canyon episode.
Speaker 4 (01:08:18):
Cool.
Speaker 2 (01:08:19):
And until I get to talk to you again, Alex,
and until I get to talk to everybody else out there,
which will be same weird time, same weird network next week.
Please keep it weird.
The paranormal UFOs, Monsters, Mysteries that you're listening to Talking
Weird and now from a Kevin Deep in the Northwards
your host, Doctor Dean Bertram.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Good evening of my fellow widows and widows. Welcome to
Talking Weird on the Unsold Radio Network. I'm your host,
Dean Bertram. And whether you're watching live at Tuesday nine
pm on x or Facebook or YouTube, or watching when
sometime after that date where it's archived, or maybe you're
listening to the show which drops every Wednesday on all
(01:02):
podcast platforms, welcome. I'm glad that you're going to spend
the next hour of your life with me, or I
sure hope you are. It is hot in the north
Woods Europe in Wisconsin, and I know it's been hot
around an awful lot of the country. I hope you're
doing your best to stay cool. And if you're hope
you're not being impacted by the fires in Canada. I
know even here we're being mildly impacted. Incredible smoky Hayes.
(01:25):
But take care of yourself, enjoy the summer which is
just blasting by. I'd be remiss if I didn't say
what I'm going to say now and I we're a
paranormal entertainment really network. But we lost one of perhaps
the most important entertainers in the history of professional sports
entertainment last week, and that was Hulk Hogan, who I
(01:48):
think was so formative to so many of us, certainly
to me growing up, and I think he revolutionized perhaps
not just sports entertainment, but narrative storytelling and the way
that we viewed superstars. First, of course, of his iconic run,
as you know, the legendary hul Cogan, the major babyface
good guy of the WWF so long when I was
(02:10):
a kid and first got into wrestling, and then the
incredible bad guy Turn which launched, along with Scott Hall
and Kevin Nash, the nWo, the New World Order, which
I think I should in another whole era of sports
entertainment and another way of how this stuff interacted with
with popular culture. And I think I'm gonna miss Hogan terribly,
(02:32):
and all I can say so hopefully any other fans
out there listening is nWo for life. And with that said,
I should get into somebody I'm super excited is joining
me today. He's one of my favorite people in the
entire Cryptid paranormal documentary space. He's been on the show before.
(02:53):
He's an incredibly talented filmmaker, so he's a documentarian as
well as being an outdoorsman and an avid research who's
constantly searching for the unknown. He travels across North America
in the world, He's looked into various mysteries, including cryptosological
creatures like Sapsquatch, the Lockness Monster, the Lake Champlain Monster,
mystery big cats and bizarre phenomena, and mysterious places like
(03:17):
the Bridgewater Triangle and more. He's a small Town Monster's
crew member and has created various documentaries and docuseries about
these mystery topics, most notably of which is a Bigfoot
Beyond the Trail, which is a mass over twenty million
collective views on YouTube. So I'm delighted to welcome back
to the show again. One of my favorite people in
(03:38):
this entire space, Alexander Pettikov. I can't hear you, alex
I did that before.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
Yeah, I had to do it, Okay, Well, seriously appreciate
you having me on man, really appreciate the kind words
as well, and just glad to be back.
Speaker 4 (03:58):
And I will not hit that mute button again.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Promise, and I do it all. I mean, I'd do
this all the time. I'm constantly muting myself when I'm
coughing and forgetting to unmute. I did it, especially for
the first year or so. My guest or my co
host back then would always be saying, like, on your
mutube a mutue, Deane.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
I'd be like, I think because when I was backstage,
I had my AC on and I just muted it
just even though it doesn't affect a sound, and of
course I forgot to turn it back on. But anyway,
here we are. So it's all good now. But I
hope you're doing well.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Man, man, I hope you are too. I mean, you're
doing well as far as your you know, incredible influence
on you know, cryptozoological filmmaking. The amount of hits your
stuff gets on YouTube, it's freaking phenomenal. It's great. So
I understand why, but it's still phenomenal. Nonetheless, that's cool.
Speaker 3 (04:46):
I'm glad people enjoy watching sometimes me rambling sometimes my adventures,
my misadventures just uh, you know, it's it's fun. I
do a variety of different series, you know. I think
the last time I was on your show is probably
only doing be on the Trail and maybe another show.
Speaker 4 (05:02):
But since then I've started Strange Places.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
As well as the Appalachian Bigfoot File, So you know,
it's cool again.
Speaker 4 (05:09):
I'm glad people enjoy it. You know.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
I see a lot of the comments and a lot
of the messages I get from folks that just they
seem to like it.
Speaker 4 (05:15):
So that's cool by me. You know.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
I don't mind, of course, but I like bringing people
along for the journey. That's also part of it. It's
a big part of it.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Well, I think you do a very good job with
bringing people along. I just have to give a quick
shout out to flat Rockland, who's actually my guest next week.
He's a longtime viewer of the show, and he's somebody
with all kinds of interesting tales to tell who lives
in the Maury Island area, which interestingly is one of
the places I visited to shoot my current feature documentary,
(05:47):
The Man who Invented Flying Sources. But one of the
reasons I'm so interested in your Jersey Devil documentary, which
is what we'll be talking about, so not that is
I didn't get to the Pine Barons, but I did
have a short film last year at the Jersey Devil
Film Festival, which was in Asbury Park.
Speaker 4 (06:04):
So I've heard about that.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
Yeah, for the for the Jersey Devil. Maybe maybe we'll
jump off with that one. I think we absolutely some
of your other work, but I love that it's so great.
I don't know if you want to. I'm guessing most
people have a vague idea of what the Jersey Devil is,
but maybe you could give a little bit of an
overview about where it's located, what the park Barents are like,
what the Devil is for those people who don't, who
(06:28):
aren't familiar with the story.
Speaker 4 (06:30):
Yeah, absolutely, And I'm not an expert.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
By any means. You know, there's certainly people that are
more knowledgeable about the lore and the legend of the
Jersey Devil, but I'll do my best. So basically from
my knowledge to story that originated in an area called
the Pine Barrens, which is this fairly unique environment in
kind of southern coastal New Jersey. People think of New Jersey,
they usually think of Newark, just outside of New York City,
(06:55):
you know, very urban, no woods, maybe Atlantic City, and
actually the Pine Barrens is this it's like a almost
a sugar sand type environment with these a lot of pine,
like very ancient pines, and it's just it looks like
a kind of very primordial place. But it's very flat.
I mean, it's completely in terms of elevation, there's barely
anything right. So in my film you could see some
(07:18):
of the visuals, you know, from the drone looking into
the forest and there's just nothing but trees as far
as you can see. So it's this pretty interesting habitat.
It's kind of this bastion of wilderness in the middle
of a very populated area. You've got New York City
on one side, Atlantic City, and then Philadelphia kind of
to the northwest of it, so it's really surrounded by
a lot of people. In New Jersey is one of
(07:39):
the most densely populated states in the US, so you know, there's.
Speaker 4 (07:43):
Not a lot of space, I guess you could say.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
But then the Pine Barrens is over a million acres
of various protected land like forest, a state forest and
state parks and that sort of thing.
Speaker 4 (07:53):
So it has an area that's because of the way
it is.
Speaker 3 (07:56):
It's this kind of remote place. I mean, it's not
Alaska remote that's that's totally different story. But it is
remote enough for that part of the country, and you know,
it has this kind of mysterious feel and allure to it.
There's a lot of legends that have originated out of
that area, and probably the most famous one, of course,
is that of the Jersey Devil, which is this Some
people call it cryptid, some people call it paranormal. I
(08:19):
don't know, you know, because I'm skeptical of the whole story.
I think it's really interesting folklore, but you know, I
don't believe there's like a physical creature.
Speaker 4 (08:27):
I think maybe it's something paranormal. I don't know.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
I really don't know, but just for the sake of
the argument, I will lay out what it is.
Speaker 4 (08:33):
It's essentially this kind of winged creature.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
That's that has been reported for quite a while in
the areas around the Pine barrens. The possible origin story
is tied in with kind of early America, early settler
folk tale as well with what was called the Leeds Devil,
which was there was a Leeds family and the wife
was giving birth to what was called the what was
(08:57):
their thirteenth child, and suppose she cursed it and it
came out as this hideous, devil looking creature that you know,
then kind of took off into the Pine barrens. That's
sort of the abridged version. There's a lot of other
weird stories associated with the origin story. From what I
was told when I was working on this documentary, I
heard about Ben Franklin was involved. The Leeds family was unpopular,
(09:20):
and this was like a spear campaign against them to
say that their child was this devil like creature. So,
you know, I don't know exactly what was going on,
but it is this story, and it's interesting because you
talk to different people and they have different interpretations of
what it looks like. Some people it's kind of this
winged looking cryptid thing. To others it's almost like a
It has like a horse face, wings and flying as
(09:44):
kind of present horse hoofs, that sort of thing. Kind
of an amalgamation of different animals put together. So yeah,
it has a lot of prominence. Of course in the
Pine Barrens. It's sort of the I guess you want
to call the patron of the Pine Barrens. You know,
it's kind of the area with known for and again
people believe it's encryptid some people think it's more supernatural.
(10:05):
Others it's just an interesting kind of truly American style
of folklore, you know, that originated in that area, that
has connections to early you know, like I said, Ben Franklin,
possibly and other parts of the story. And I'm probably
doing a terrible job of explaining this, but that's the
sort of origins. And there have been supposedly flaps of
sightings of this thing over the years up until the
(10:28):
modern day. Supposedly now, some of the researchers I talked
to believe that, you know, they're a little bit more
skeptical of that sort of stuff in the modern era
or even that it exists. And I would have to
say fallow in that category. I think it's just a
really cool kind of folkloreic tale.
Speaker 4 (10:43):
I don't know how it originated. There's a lot of
weird theories, but one.
Speaker 3 (10:47):
Of my favorite shows ever covered it in one of
the first episodes of The X Files, classic show from
the nineteen nineties. Many people in this space will of
course be familiar with The X Files, and I think
it was the third or fourth episode of season one.
They did a Pine Barrens Jersey Devil episode and they
almost took like a big Foot approach to it, where
they made it into actually a feral human that was
(11:08):
a group of feral humans living out in this pine
barrens environment praying on homeless people. And you know, that's
one of the only episodes where there's a few Bigfoot
references in the entire X File shows.
Speaker 4 (11:17):
So I always had that.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
Kind of episode in my mind, especially when I was
working on this video, as well as the show The Sopranos,
another really great show that is just awesome, one of
my favorites, and they have a very one of the
best episodes of the whole show actually takes place in
the pine barrens where these two mobsters get lost out there.
Speaker 4 (11:38):
There's no Jersey Devil.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
I think it's kind of eluded, but there's nothing, you know,
to allude to, you know, the Jersey Devil is just
it's kind of in the background. But it's a very
funny and comedic, kind of dark humor episode.
Speaker 4 (11:50):
So those, yeah, two.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
Of my favorite shows dealt with the Pine barrens, and
that was my first trip to the Pine barrens. So
that's kind of the origin story a little bit onto
the Pine Barrens and the Jersey Devil itself.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
It's a great over view and I would I'd love
to go out there. Like I said, when I was there,
my girlfriend and I were there at the Jersey Devil
Film Festival. I really wanted to get out the Pine Bearns.
But it's not really close to where the festival. It's like,
maybe one day I'll twist your arm into taking me.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
I mean, I'm again, I'm no expert, but there's plenty
of That was my first time ever actually.
Speaker 4 (12:21):
Going to the Pine Barrens.
Speaker 3 (12:22):
You know, New Jersey has this reputation that it's kind
of of no fence to anybody who was in New Jersey,
but kind of like a reputation.
Speaker 4 (12:30):
It's kind of like the armpit of America.
Speaker 3 (12:32):
Because again, you drive through parts of New Jersey, the
northern part, especially like in the outside of New York City,
it's like all this industrial wasteland. Speaking of Sopranos, you know,
a lot of the episodes took place in that area
because that's where those mobsters are from, and they're like
dumping industrial waste in all these places. So that's what
people think of as New Jersey. But in reality, you
go down to Pine barrens. It's a beautiful place. I mean,
(12:52):
don't get me wrong, creepy at night because your mind
is racing thinking, oh, what's going on out here? But
it is a beautiful, beautiful and again from what I
was told, is a very unique habitat environment wise. It's
something that you might find much further south in like
parts of South Carolina and some of those areas, but
it just happens to.
Speaker 4 (13:11):
Be, you know, pretty far north for being New Jersey.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Horace Smith has a great question or throw to win
a minute. I was about to make a similar point,
but I'll ask his question. But I will just make
the point and then I'll ask his question. That I
really appreciate in your filmmaking that you're very objective in
your telling of when you're suspicious of the reality of
(13:38):
something like in this film. This isn't any spoilers because
it's just it doesn't show anything that happens, but it's
some of your narrative. It's like, initially you're, as you said,
you're suspicious that the Jersey Devil story might just be,
you know, some type of legend. But the other point
that you make is that it being so landlocked that
(13:59):
you're even suspicio of some of the tales about bigfoot sidings.
And we'll get to both of those in a minute,
but let's just throw to Horace Smith's question. Horrace Smith
is a good friend of the show. He's been a
guest on the show. He's also the professor Emmerius of
astronomy and Physics at Michigan State University. Very his questions
are always very insightful, and he says, how does Alexander
(14:21):
balance the exciting stories with the sometimes less exciting skeptical
side when he makes a video?
Speaker 4 (14:27):
Now, that's a great question.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
I personally just kind of go with my gut how
I feel about something. If I think something's a little
too good to be true, I will probably say that,
you know. Like, so I'll say this first, Beyond the
Trail series and Strange Places, I'm kind of I have
myself on camera, so a lot of times it'll be
me out in the field and I will explain how
I feel about something. So in a case like this
(14:51):
episode Strange Places, what was cool was we're out in
the woods and we spend a couple of days there
in the pine barrens, and that's what I would I
would just kind of pick up a camera and do
these little monologue where I'm explaining how I feel about
this or that story, and I talked about, oh, yeah,
you know, this area being so landlocked. I find hard
to believe there's bigfoot stories, but you know, at the
same time, there's people telling credible stories. I always try
(15:12):
to just balance it out, you know, I give my
personal opinion, but I also want to have other people
who do research these areas.
Speaker 4 (15:20):
So this is my first trip there.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
I'm not going to claim to be some expert, and
you know, I can't make those assumptions, but I can
feature people who do research those areas and kind of
just let them speak their mind. I think what I
try to do in some of my videos is keep
interviews longer. A lot of times, especially see on TV
or you know, other mediums, where an interview will be
(15:42):
cut I mean, you're talking about it can take you
half an hour to film an interview, and this will
be cut down into a very short two three minutes segment, really,
and I think that's just a shame. I try to
keep as much of an interview in as possible if
it's relevant to what's being discussed. I am usually doing
like half an hour interviews anyway with people, so I
try to get big, long chunks of whether they're trying
(16:04):
to get out into the video.
Speaker 4 (16:06):
That's kind of.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
How I just I like to present the facts and if, hey,
you don't have to believe any of it. A lot
of times you will hear me literally on screen as
I mentioned, talking about how I feel about.
Speaker 4 (16:15):
It, but you don't have to listen to me.
Speaker 3 (16:17):
You can listen to the other people featured in the
video and make up your own mind. And ultimately, I
just hope you go do your own investigation or research.
Speaker 4 (16:24):
Into these topics. I mean, don't take byword for it.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
I'm just, you know, featuring an area that I think
is really interesting, like the Pine barrens.
Speaker 4 (16:31):
And that's what's so great about the.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
Series Strange Places is it features locations that I find
weird or intriguing for a variety of reasons. These are
usually places that have some sort of enduring myths, like
the Jersey Devil. Combine that with sasquatch stuff, with weird
abandoned locations, there's just a lot going on. And those
are the kind of areas that I like to feature
in strange places because I think they have a lot
(16:55):
of subject matter there. So you know, I've talked to
people who don't believe any of the parent stuff, but
you're just into like the abandoned stuff, right, So I
guess there's.
Speaker 4 (17:05):
Something for everybody there.
Speaker 3 (17:06):
But I just kind of try to lay everything out
and again let people ultimately make up their own mind.
Speaker 4 (17:15):
I can't hear you. I think you're muted now.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Rookie mistakes.
Speaker 4 (17:20):
We have.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Joeff Fox who's a regular. He's probably one of the
longest views of the show. He asks you, Alex, are
you from Jersey?
Speaker 3 (17:28):
I know the ACI I am not, thankfully just kidding again,
no shade any Jersey people. I'm from New Hampshire, another
state named after a former English territory I guess, or
in Jersey and Hampshire. So I'm from New Hampshire, so
a little bit further north than New Jersey, but I
(17:49):
could a lot of sometimes people confuse it, and it's
kind of unfortunate because New Hampshire is a lot better
of a state.
Speaker 4 (17:54):
But again I'm not being very objective right now, but
there you go.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
Is New Heart in New Hampshire, which one New Heart
one of my favorite sitcoms from like the eighties. I
think they're in New Hampshire or they're in Maine. No,
I think New Hampshire. Is it where?
Speaker 3 (18:13):
Yeah, New Hampshire and May and I mean Maine gets
a lot of like the Stephen King stuff is written
up there.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
I think they're New Hampshire. Yeah, New hot.
Speaker 3 (18:21):
It's also, you know, one of the small states we are,
like New Jersey also one of the original thirteen colonies.
Speaker 4 (18:26):
So yeah, there's a lot of history in this part
of the country. But you know, again, all.
Speaker 3 (18:30):
My Jersey people, I will give you guys something. You
guys have amazing pizza. That New York style, New Jersey
style pizza is really good. So I'm a pizza guy.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
So yeah, be honest, I love it. I love Jersey.
Admittedly I wasn't in Asbury Park, so that's my experience
of Jersey. But I remember May. I think when when
I was there with my girlfriends am Manford, I think
we had a very different idea of what Jersey was
going to be like because of all those Jersey House
or I shows that's exactly everything else. But it was
really nice. It was it was surprisingly nice, to be honest,
(19:03):
I'd love to go back.
Speaker 4 (19:03):
It was good. It's strange.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
Yeah, the whole state is a it's a lot more
suburban areas than you know, just that pure city kind
of you know. And like I said, Soprano is one
of my favorite shows. And actually every time I go
to New Jersey and then especially in North Park, I
try to go to a couple of the filming locations
from the show. So I will go and I will
take pictures in front of that house of one of
(19:26):
the mobsters, or this is the pizza place where he
was at, or it was in the intro. I have
like a whole collage on my phone of photos from
some of these Sopranos locations. But yeah, I mean another
I actually did another video New Jersey back in February,
which was for my appalation Bigfoot File series, which covers
the whole Appalachian Mountain range. And you have a section
(19:46):
that goes through New Jersey High Point State Park into
New York, New York State and you're talking about you're
an hour outside of New York City and there's big
Foot sightings along those those ridges and those mountains. You know,
there's bear, there's deer, lots of other wildline and there's
been multiple big foot sightings. I mean High Point State
Park in northern New Jersey, which is actually at the
Pennsylvania border, has the creature called the Big Red Eye.
(20:08):
That's some park ranger named back in the seventies after
repeated encounters in that park. So that really surprised me.
That part of northern New Jersey was very rural. There's
a lot of farmland. I mean, there was this really
crazy newspaper report I came on from the seventies in
an area where there was chickens being killed and there
was like a bigfoot hunt that went on there in
(20:30):
the seventies and there's some pretty interesting stuff. So yeah,
that's another area that surprises you in terms of, you know,
it's part of Jersey. It's very different than the Pine
Barrens because it's got some hills and I mean little mountains,
little kind of rolling hills. But again the Appalation Trail
goes through there. You do have some big foot sightings
and I covered that back in February, and there was
(20:51):
other strange stories in that area in those areas too,
But that's a lot closer to New York City. But
you go down to the pine barrens, and that's a
totally different environment, but you know.
Speaker 4 (21:00):
It's got its own unique kind of look to it
and everything.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
One of the points that the documentary touches on when
you're interviewing various researchers and witnesses in the area is
that potentially the Jersey Devil and Bigfoot is one and
the same, and maybe Jersey Devil sidings have been misidentifications
of Bigfoot. Is that something you can chat about a
little bit.
Speaker 4 (21:24):
Yeah, that's something that came up a few times with
some of the researchers. Now, admittedly, some of the people I.
Speaker 3 (21:29):
Was interviewing were primarily kind of Bigfoot researchers, but some
of them thought, hey, you know, maybe some of these
Jersey Devil sightings are people seeing Bigfoot. You need to
see some large creature in the brush and you can't
really see it.
Speaker 4 (21:42):
Maybe there's glowing red eyes, and they're thinking, oh, it
must be the Jersey Devil.
Speaker 3 (21:46):
And I think this is kind of interesting because you
do have a lot like especially on the East Coast,
and this is something in my appalation Bigfoot File Series
two that I've covered with some of the researchers talking
about these coast is a lot older than say the
West Coast, where you know, a lot of the Bigfoot
and sasquatch lore kind of originated from the East Coast
has a lot more hauntings, colonial stuff, ghost stories, older history,
(22:10):
so there's a lot more ghost stories, like even up.
Speaker 4 (22:12):
Here, especially up here in New England.
Speaker 3 (22:14):
I should say, there's certain stories that really intrigued me
because they'll talk about a you know, island or place
in the woods where it's haunted and there's a you know,
ghosts that throw rocks at you and let out these screams,
and you kind of think about that for a second,
You're like, that kind of sounds like bigfoot stuff, right,
Maybe is that what they're interpreting it as. And I've
(22:34):
talked to a couple of people too that have you know,
had you know, encounters or or are aware of encounters
that have happened that fit the hallmarks of a bigfoot encounter.
And the person who had the encounter was like, well,
I don't believe Bigfoot's not exist. Bigfoot doesn't exist. What
I saw was a ghost. It's one of those things
that's kind of like, well, you know how do you
how do you explain that? So, I think there's a
(22:54):
phenomena going on where more people believe or feel to
the paranormal or superna natural ghosts and that sort of
thing is real. That might that's actually probably easier for
more people to understand than or wrap their heads around
and believe in Bigfoot. So I think there are certain
cases that, you know, whether it's some of these Jersey
Devil stories or some of the ghost stuff that's like
(23:16):
bigfoot behavior that's being misinterpreted as a ghosts or rationalized
the way as ghosts I should say it. Which again
it's like, you know, I've been the things with the
events with people who are more into the ghost stuff,
and they kind.
Speaker 4 (23:28):
Of laugh at the idea of Bigfoot, and I'm like,
who are you to laugh at that? It's like, you
guys are the ghostuff.
Speaker 3 (23:34):
A lot of people think that's crazy too, right, It's
like the alien people, the Bigfoot people, and the ghost
people that are all laughing at each other, and then
the rest of society is just laughing at them for
all believing and crazy stuff.
Speaker 4 (23:43):
But you know, my point is, yeah, some of the theories.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
Are that Jersey Devil stories might be missaid. If a
big Foot sightings, I mean, maybe it happens. I sure,
why not, again, if it's in the right settings. But
I don't know how you're going to mistake a giant,
flying winged thing for you know, Bigfoot. It's one thing.
If it's on the ground level, sure that happens. But
you know, again, those are theories of some of the
(24:06):
folks that look into this stuff. And again I am
more skeptical to Jersey Devil story. I think it's largely folkloric.
You know.
Speaker 4 (24:12):
There are plenty of other stories like.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
That that I think are very intriguing, but I don't
know if they have any kind of reality, especially once
you dig into them. It's kind of, again an amalgamation
of different types of stories and the superstitions kind.
Speaker 4 (24:26):
Of woven into one. So yeah, maybe that's what's going on.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
I know, last time when you were on, we talked
a little bit about window areas and high strangeness and
these kind of ideas that connect potentially different areas of
cryptozoology and euphology and paranormal research. I'll be honest, My position,
(24:53):
and could be entirely wrong, is that perhaps Bigfoot and
the Jersey and ghosts and UFOs, which are also in
your one most recent Strange Places documentary. Maybe they are
somehow interrelated at a level we don't understand. Maybe they
(25:14):
are as people like Raye Haalmer suggested, John Keel, Jacques Valet,
various other authors, Brad Steiger, Patrick Harper, Maybe they're manifestations. Incidentally,
also did did did Jerome Clark? And Who's the Who's
the guy who runs the what my mind? Scott of Blank,
(25:34):
Who's the guy who runs? Lauren Coleman, Jerome Clark? Coleman
The Unidentified and Creatures from the Outer Edge suggested that
all of this stuff was the manifestation from the same
paranormal mechanism. I think is the term that they used,
right and now, of course I think both Lauren Coleman
(25:56):
and Jerome Clark have changed their opinions. But back in
the seventh and these they were very much in that
camp of people like you know, Kiel and Palmer that
they thought that all of this might be interrelated. I
know last time you were still probably dividing them more,
which is fine because none of us know. There's no
experts here, but have any of since we spoke over
(26:19):
a year ago. Have any of your experiences led you
to potentially think these things are more interrelated than you
thought they were before.
Speaker 3 (26:27):
Maybe it's a good question, and I'll kind of I'll
go off a little bit, but I'll tell you, Like
Lauren Coleman, for example, he's the one who coined the
term the Bridgewater Triangle, which is this area in south
eastern Massachusetts. A lot of weird stuff there, crazy murderers
and true crime stuff going on, as well as really
interesting bigfoot sightings, really weird other creatures and lights in
(26:50):
the sky and very credible encounters that have happened over
the years. But the area almost has like an urban
legend status to it now. So Lauren had actually coined
the term Bridgewater trying. And then you've got the Bennington
Triangle over in Vermont, which Joe Citrow, another author who
covered all sorts of stuff, coined Southern Vermont, and I'm
actually working on a video about the Bennington Triangle. And
(27:11):
then there's also the Ossipee Triangle in New Hampshire, which
at coincidentally I'm also working on a video on, and
I've done previous videos on the Bridge Butter Triangle but yeah,
I mean this whole window area flab area thing. See,
I don't know if it really how should I put this.
I don't know if necessarily it's what I believe in it.
But there is certain aspects that are undeniable to these places.
(27:35):
You know, whether you believe in anything paranormal or not,
they do take up on their own. They manifest their
own energy of some kind. You know, people go to
these areas, and even if it's all in our heads,
and again it's an urban legend thing. People are seeking
and going to these areas because they've created this kind
of reputation. Now, you know, I know plenty of people
like the late Great Paulino friend of mine, who used
to delve a lot into the flap area stuff.
Speaker 4 (27:56):
And you know, was investigating a property in Pennsylvania.
Speaker 3 (27:59):
Where I even get the chance to go out and
had some strange stuff happen at But whether or not
these things are related, I still don't know. I mean,
it does seem interesting though, because you have places like
some of these alleged flab areas where you have multiple
things going on at once, Whereas then you'll have areas
like in the Pacific Northwest or Alaska that I've been
(28:19):
to where there seems to be just Bigfoot stuff going on.
There isn't really anything else unusual. So I don't know
what to make of that. I mean, I still do
lean towards, you know, maybe in certain areas, if Bigfoot
is out there, it's some kind of reliced hominid.
Speaker 4 (28:32):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (28:33):
I could be totally wrong about that, absolutely, but maybe
they're even you know, like you're talking about areas that
you know, have these different kind of manifestations. Maybe that's
something totally separate, you know, I heard, I've heard all
kinds of interesting theories about, you know, the interactions between
these things. Maybe you know, people see orbs and sasquatch together.
Is that maybe just a curiosity thing? Because if you
(28:56):
see a deer in an orb together, do you assume
the deer is paranormal? Is because you've got two strange
things going on. A friend of mine from Pennsylvania, Matt Arner,
who's Ah's a great researcher from the state of Pennsylvania.
He's in law enforcement, and he had he had told
me a theory when we were filming some Appalachian Bigfoot
file stuff about Pennsylvania that the natives would talk about,
(29:16):
you know, these these deer and these bucks with their
antlers would try to capture these balls of light, you know,
kind of harness them in their antlers. Yeah, it was
a really kind of interesting story that came up in
a conversation and it's in one of the Appalachian Bigfoot
Files episodes.
Speaker 4 (29:32):
I can't remember which one.
Speaker 3 (29:33):
It might be the Suscan Screamer if you look that
one up, which is a Pennsylvania a kind of lore
about this screaming creature.
Speaker 4 (29:39):
But you know, there seemed.
Speaker 3 (29:40):
There were the theories that there was some kind of
interaction between these deer and these anti these balls of light.
So maybe that's he he brought up the theory. Well,
what if the sasquach is just trying to capture this
thing too. Maybe it's a form of fun, you know.
Are they connected again?
Speaker 4 (29:54):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (29:55):
I mean, there seems to be these areas where more
of this stuff happens, like a Bridgewater Triangle. There's maybe
two things going on. It's either there is more things
going on in one place, or because the area has
such a reputation, if there's more of a spotlight in
an area like that, whereas maybe somewhere else there might
not necessarily be right. So you know, if something goes
(30:15):
on in the Bridgewater Triangle, it's going to be attributed
to being part of the triangle, whereas if it just
goes in some random patch of woods, it was just
it was just a UFO sighting, or oh it was
just a bigfoot sighting. You know, there's no there's nobody
drawing the lines to connect them together.
Speaker 4 (30:30):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (30:30):
Again, it's it's all very interesting, and you know, like
the Bennington Triangle, as I mentioned, I'm working on a
video on that ann Osby Triangle, and they all have
these kind of hallmark instances where you have bigfoot sightings
that are very intriguing, and then other things going on
and abandoned ghost towns, seen of some great tragedy, conflict
like the Bridgewater Triangle, some of the really first wars
(30:53):
between settlers and the natives of Wampanoag and others. So
it seems like almost areas where there's been a lot
of kind of strange I don't want to say not atmospheric,
but like either geological conditions or great tragedies have happened
there I mean the Bennington Triangle in Vermont. There's entire
(31:15):
communities that are now ghost towns that are in this
wilderness area that used to be inhabited, Whereas the Asopi
Triangle in New Hampshire is centered basically on this perfectly
circular mountain range that's considered to be this ancient volcano.
So I don't know if that has anything to do
with it. I mean talk about, you know, strange places.
I've also covered the Brown Mountain Lights down in North Carolina,
(31:37):
which some people theorize it's totally normal. It's just maybe
some weird geological thing. People say it's ghosts, some people
say it's orb stuff. So there's a lot that we
don't know. And I'm not going to say that I
know a lot. But what I do know is that
some of these places, again, whether you give any of
this stuff power or not, whether you believe in it,
(31:59):
you're the most skeptical person. You cannot deny a place
like the Bridgewater Triangle is not its own entity at
this point because it's one of the most Like the
Bermuda Triangle, it's one of the most famous and popular,
well known kind of paranormal flap areas. If there's podcasts
about it every week, there's all kinds of stuff about it,
So whether we like it or not, it's become an
urban legend.
Speaker 4 (32:19):
You know.
Speaker 3 (32:19):
Again, I don't think you need to be a staunch
believer or or denier to at least kind of examine
these areas. And you know, Bridgewater Triangle is the scene
of horrific murders and possible cult activity. You know, that
has very real world consequences. That's not just you know,
an inconsequential Bigfoot sighting or UFO that was seen by
(32:40):
very credible witnesses. It's you know, people died for whatever
reasons in these areas, and maybe that has something to.
Speaker 4 (32:45):
Do with it.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
I don't know, Man, every responsive views makes maybe one
ask about ten more questions because it's so fantastic. You're
so insightful and interesting. You've got so much, so much
data there. Why do you think triangles? You know, like
there's so many, Like you said, the Bermuda Triangle is
probably the one everybody knew about first. Like that goes
back to being popularized when I was like a little kid. Yeah, right,
(33:08):
but why all these what do you think that is
about the triangle.
Speaker 3 (33:11):
I think we can we can blame Lauren Coleman for
that one. Now, I'm just kidding that. I've known Lauren
for a number of years. He's great. You know, his
museum up in Maine is awesome. The International Cryptosology Museum.
Had the pleasure to interact with him quite a few
times and visit the museum and attend the conferences there.
But he did and you know, kind of get that
whole triangle thing popularized by you know, like you said,
(33:34):
the Bermuda triangle was something that was popular in the seventies.
So I think the fascination with the triangle. A lot
of people would argue these areas are not perfect triangles.
It's not like, oh, here's a triangle, and activity stops
the moment you go outside of the area of the triangle.
I mean, people would argue the Bridgewater Triangle, there's stuff
(33:55):
that's happened technically south of the actual apex of the triangle.
But people usually they'll connect three towns or features that
will be kind of each point of the triangle, but
there's spillover stuff going on. I think a triangle is
just easy to understand. It's just one of those things
that drawing a line on a map, we as humans,
you know, we tend to kind of identify with that.
(34:17):
If it was the Bridgewater or the Bermuda splotch or
you know, splatter, it just I don't think.
Speaker 4 (34:24):
It has the same ring to it. You know, it's
not easy. It's a lot messier that way.
Speaker 3 (34:29):
A triangles clean and neat, and we call other things,
you know, mostly paranormal now, but there are also like
the Golden Triangle in Southeast Asia, there's a drug smuggling route.
You know, I'm sure they smuggle those drugs in areas
that are not part of that triangle, but it's just again,
it's an easy way for us to understand an area.
So like the Ossipe Triangle up here in New Hampshire
(34:49):
is one that is pretty pretty relatively unknown actually, so
again it's just easy to rationalize it away as a triangle,
whereas in reality most of the stuff happens in kind
of a circle because that's the mountain range.
Speaker 4 (35:02):
There is this perfect little circle.
Speaker 3 (35:04):
So yeah, I think the triangle is just easy to
identify with, and they're here to stay. You know, there's
so many paranormal triangles now again, Virgiliter Triangle is basically
the one after the original Bermuda Triangle that kind of
gave way to certainly the Bennington and Ousti triangles. These
are the ones that I'm most familiar with because we
New England have three triangles. I don't think we have enough.
Apparently you've got the Alaska Triangle now, I mean all
(35:27):
Devil's Triangle in outside of Japan, I believe in the Ocean,
which is kind of also model off the Bermuda Triangle.
And from what I understand that the Bermuda Triangle is basically
also they just drew lines on a map and said
it falls in this area and that's you know, from
the island of Bermuda to I think somewhere in the
Bahamas and maybe the coast of Florida, and that's kind
(35:48):
of like considered to be the triangle.
Speaker 4 (35:50):
So it's usually the same with all these triangles.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
You know.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
That's great. I never heard anybody use the example of
the Golden Triangle or angles that we make, but it
does put into perspectives that as humans, we want to
find patterns in things where there isn't a precise pattern.
We want a precise pattern because it just makes it
easy to talk about and easier to think about when
(36:13):
you do it like that, so that that makes total sense,
totally unrelateable to something else you're talking about, which I
really wanted to hit. Was you spoke before about an
incident where a bigfoot killed chickens, And in my limited
I'll get you to talk about. But in my limited
because I'm not a cryptozoological guy at all. I mean,
I guess UFOs are probably my wheelhouse. And then American
(36:36):
cultural history, but there seem to be a lot of
like bigfoot seem to be killing more pet rabbits and
dogs and chickens and very back in the seventies, like
back when we're back when Coleman and Clark wrote those
books and other people John Keel and other people were
just pushing all this very strange material out. There seem
(36:58):
to be more examples of doing this stuff. So you
can talk about a little bit more of you want
to about the case you mentioned, But is this something
you bump into currently as well, Like is this stuff
still going on or does it seem to be something
that was locked more in the past.
Speaker 3 (37:13):
It's interesting, actually I kind of made not the mistake,
but well I did actually I said chickens. This incident
New Jersey actually involved rabbits. So I found a newspaper
article I was just checking out, and it was rabbits.
It was a rabbit killing incident, and it led to
an autopsy of the rabbits, and it was in this
kind of rural area. I actually have the newspaper clipping here.
(37:37):
Let me see if I can read off that real quick.
Let's see. Well, I can't find it now, but yeah,
bigfoot in Jersey kills farm rabbits and I can't the
text is too small here. But basically, it was this
incident in the seven I think it was thinking seventy
six or around then, where there's this kind of crazy
These people were swear up and down that this thing
(37:58):
was killing rabbits and twisting their necks, and there's an
autopsy done.
Speaker 4 (38:02):
They believed it was done by hands.
Speaker 3 (38:04):
And yeah, there does seem to be instances like that,
but I've heard believed they or not modern stories of
bigfoot killing stuff. A friend of mine research up here
in New Hampshire, has a pretty harrowing story of a
woman claiming she saw her dog get taken off into
woods and killed by one of these things while hiking
a pretty remote mountain area. She called the authorities and
they just said it was probably a bear, and she
obviously was pretty upset because it killed her dog. Obviously,
(38:28):
I can't say what happened. I wasn't there, either was
my friend, but he talked to this woman took the report.
There's another story I heard, I think, also from the eighties. Well, actually, yeah,
I guess that's a little more an older story too.
But there are others, you know, there's other stories people
being seen big foot taking hogs, taking other animals, deer.
I don't know if there's really, to my knowledge, stories
(38:51):
that are, you know, more so in the older ages,
in older reports more violent. I think there's a pretty
insistent pattern of those. They're pretty rare in general, though
they're not like the norm. You know, you encounter certain
types of animal that exhibit certain behaviors that are pretty consistent.
Right well, whereas this seems it's a pretty rare kind
(39:14):
of story. I mean, I heard a story from Louisiana,
just from a few years ago when I was down
there in this area and you're the Honey Island swamp
of this guy losing his dogs and something bringing the
head of the dog back and.
Speaker 4 (39:25):
Leaving it in the yard. And this is an area
where you had some kind of.
Speaker 3 (39:28):
Encounters, and this is pretty recent, so there just seem
to be a lot of dog encounters that are negative.
And then I see people say, oh, well, these things
hate dogs, and I hear other people say, well, no,
they love dogs. So I don't think anybody really knows.
But you know, you can have some scary moments if
you're out there hiking and you have your dog with
you and all of a sudden there's some kind of
incident with whatever animal. I mean, you run into a
(39:50):
bear or a moose or a deer. It can be
pretty frightening. So imagine something that's not supposed to exist
suddenly coming out and taking your dog.
Speaker 4 (39:58):
I mean, you're probably gonna I.
Speaker 3 (40:00):
Think you're crazy, But you know, at the same time,
you probably knew what you know, what you saw, you
know what you experienced. So yeah, that was an interesting
case that that Jersey. If you look it up, you
can search like a New Jersey rabbit killing, bigfoot incident
or something like that, and it'll come up. You'll get
(40:20):
some hits on that. Again, it's one of those kind
of prolific stories and supposedly the nearer the farm where
it happened was where Lou Dobbs, who was like a
I guess he was a commentary on Fox. I think
he was like a bit more of a business guy.
I never really watched his stuff, But he apparently had
bought the property that this bigfoot incident had happened on. Yeah,
(40:44):
and not because of that just happened to be an
area that was far enough outside of New York City.
And one of the researchers I was with, I believe
they told me that someone on air or at one
point asked him about this incident. He said, I have
no idea, but it just happened to be the property
that was formerly owned by somebody else that he had bought.
Speaker 4 (41:03):
So that's kind of a fun connection there.
Speaker 2 (41:05):
They're mentioned getting that property. This is the chicken Bigfoot.
Speaker 4 (41:09):
Big There was an autopsy.
Speaker 3 (41:13):
Yeah, it's it's a very very wild incident, very interesting
called wolf Pit Road. That's the area where it happened
in Wantage, New Jersey. If you want to look that up,
Bigfoot killing chickens. I'm sure you could find it. Our chickens.
Speaker 4 (41:25):
I keep saying chickens, rabbits, bigfoot killing rabbits, New Jersey.
Speaker 2 (41:28):
Yeah, it's it's interesting because there's I think that in
some states. I think there's laws where you've got to
disclose of the murders happen on the property. We need
to have like a cryptid disclosure, ghost disclosure policy.
Speaker 3 (41:43):
There was a ghost encounter on this in this barn,
you know, Yeah, you have to put that in there.
It makes you wonder, Yeah, because I've heard the stories
of people moving into places and having stuff happen and
they're like, well, I don't really expect that. I've even
heard of people buying places that have a known an
alleged history.
Speaker 4 (42:01):
I mean that that was going on with that.
Speaker 3 (42:03):
Conjuring house, you know, from about people are lining up
to try to buy that. There's been other places. We
even heard of properties out west where allegedly bigfoots lived
and people would try to buy you know, these areas
and experience some kind of activity. So hey, I mean,
if find the right buyer, I guess, you know, I'm
sure there's plenty of people willing to do.
Speaker 2 (42:23):
Something like that, but there's all kinds of airbnb possibilities.
I do think that some people do buy these because
in fact, I don't say I think, I know that
some people acquire these kind of properties and then they're
particularly haunted ones, like ghosty paranormal ones, and then paranormal
teams will want to come in and investigate, you know,
with all their equipment. Yeah, and they'll go, Okay, it's
(42:46):
five hundred dollars a night or something, so there can
be a financial benefit in one of these joints.
Speaker 4 (42:53):
They do that.
Speaker 3 (42:53):
I think with the Lizzie Borden House in Fall River, Massachusetts,
which is right outside of technically it's part of the
Bridgewater Triangle, but it's outside of the triangle itself. But
the lazy, bored and murders are very notable. But I
know people who have gone there with their coats hunting
teams and they've stayed a night there. So you pay
to stay and then you can you know, explore and
(43:14):
do ghost stuff after hours.
Speaker 4 (43:16):
Which is interesting.
Speaker 3 (43:18):
But then again you get instances where people buy a
place and just stuff starts happening whether they like it
or not. Like my friend up in Alaska with you know,
code named aria A. The property he's got with all
the activity that's been featured in some of my Alaska videos.
He wanted none of that. He just wanted a place
to build a cabin and go fishing and hunting.
Speaker 4 (43:37):
That's it.
Speaker 3 (43:38):
He didn't want to get rocks thrown at him. He
didn't want to have weird sounds and people seeing large
things moving in the trees. That was not at all
in his agenda. And you know, he doesn't want that
kind of He never wanted that kind of thing. So
there's plenty of stories like that too. So I don't
know if there's a rhyme or reason to it.
Speaker 2 (43:55):
Necessarily, I never thought because I'm like again, I'm conscious
of the normal houses. I don't know if anybody out
there is airbnbing en crypted houses or like you know, having
like a website, like a lot of these famous ordered
houses have webs. Yeah, is there is there a crypto
property calm Bigfoot will attack you, and there's.
Speaker 4 (44:13):
There's got to be. I know there's a few, you know,
Bigfoot themed airbnbs.
Speaker 3 (44:18):
I think I want to say, Uh, I don't know
it's Charlie Raymond or one I think in Kentucky.
Speaker 4 (44:24):
I know, maybe.
Speaker 3 (44:24):
It wasn't airben It was like a little hotel kind
of thing, but there's been definitely, I think a few
places where people make it the theme. I'm sure if
you go to lock Ass or something, there's probably a
nasty themed hotel or a nasty themed airbnb, and that's
that's fun.
Speaker 4 (44:40):
That's a cool concept.
Speaker 2 (44:43):
And you know what, I would love to go to Lockness.
We had a question from flat Rockland too. Again is
a guest on the show next week, So for flat
Rockland friends and fans, tune into Talking Weird same time
next week. He says, those are some fun videos, Alexan.
Any more info on the hand print on the back
of the cabin.
Speaker 3 (45:02):
Nope, Doug, Doug Highcheck would be one to know. Perhaps
he has he has the samples and it'll be part
of legend Meed Science too, from what I understand. So
I know as much as as you guys that that
was a twenty two So yeah, that was about three
years ago that we sent the samples in. So as
you guys know, that project is not out yet, so
(45:25):
hopefully hopefully something interesting will be there. But yeah, we
had the samples collected by Larry Beans Baxter, a retired
cop body of mine, and you know he did all
the forensic stuff and put it together and sent it off,
had multiple swabs and samples, so who knows. Hopefully it
comes back as something at least I'd like to just
know one way or.
Speaker 4 (45:43):
Another was it. Can you determine its human or non
human primate? What?
Speaker 3 (45:47):
I don't know. I just want to know something right.
Any result I think is better than just not knowing,
because the not knowing part is almost worse because you
don't have a conclusion. But as as goes so often
with this type of material, we often are left with
more questions than we have answers. But with genetic testing,
hopefully we can get an answer.
Speaker 2 (46:07):
Speaking of legend meets science too, from Doug Kichek, who's there,
the head of the Untold radio network. You're in that documentary.
I saw a post that today somebody had shared saying
it's about to be released, and your name was on there. Coincidentally,
given what you're coming on the show.
Speaker 3 (46:22):
Yes, so I didn't film with them, but I you know, again,
just I guess from that sample that we submitted, So
again I know there was a lot of other people though,
because I know there was a testing going on with
a lot of the leged samples. So I'm just excited
to see because I know a lot of the other
people that have submitted samples too, are great credible researchers.
Speaker 4 (46:39):
So it'll be really interesting to see what happens with that.
Speaker 2 (46:45):
Here's me putting my forty in hat on and when
I say that, I'm in genuinely in acolyte of Charles
for somebody who was suspicious of the scientific establishment, indeed
the methodologies of science. Do you expect there to be
some type of scientific reveal or discovery or evidence coming
(47:08):
forward which science on codes or cracks and actually presents,
is this is proof that there's a relictominode or you know,
a great American undiscovered a living amongst us, Like, do
you expect there's going to be some type of scientific
reveal or what's your what's your position on sciences interactions?
Speaker 3 (47:27):
Yeah, community, I mean, I mean, I would certainly hope.
So I think it would be very interesting to see
what happens. I personally, I'm at the point where I
would just like to kind of I'm not entirely sold,
but I am pretty certain there's.
Speaker 4 (47:41):
Something going on.
Speaker 3 (47:41):
Some of the experience that I've had, I've never seen
anything I would like, you know, I mean, the thing is,
if I get a video tomorrow, right, even if it's
a thermal half of people's here and say it's fake,
it's AI. And now with AI, you can't trust anything, visual, photo, nothing,
It's all out the window. So I think it would
be cool, you know, you could prove hey, this is
(48:01):
not fake by going you know, having.
Speaker 4 (48:03):
It checked by a variety of people and let people
tear it apart.
Speaker 3 (48:07):
And that's what you should do with any alleged evidence you have,
is let unbiased parties ask tough questions and poke and
prod and you know, just to see if it's legital.
You'll withstand the scrutiny, right. If it's not, you'll crumble.
And that's what happens with a lot of these hoaxers.
But when it comes to, you know, if there's like
a discovery, I was sure, hope. So I don't know
if that's going to happen, But you know, I think,
(48:29):
I mean, I'm not a scientist, I'm not scientifically trained.
I try my best to kind of be a citizen
scientist when I can, so if I do find something interesting,
at least I can give it to somebody who might
have that training, whether they be you know, form or
law enforcement. They literally do this for a living where
they collect evidence to try to prove a crime or
or whatever the case may be. I like to be
(48:50):
able to pass off to people who do have those
credentials because I think they have more of an ability
to actually research this stuff or.
Speaker 4 (48:57):
Determine what it is one way or another.
Speaker 3 (48:59):
You know, we've hair samples we've found before and get
them sent in for microscopic analysis, and they can say
that was a lynx, like, oh man, that was really
high up. That was crazy. I guess the cat jumped
up a climb. But you know, again, you have some
sort of conclusion we'll be going with this.
Speaker 4 (49:13):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (49:13):
I mean, if it is a relic dolminate, I would
imagine the walls you're closing in. I mean, within the
next decade maybe, I don't know. I feel like we've
been saying that for a long time though, And if
it is paranormal, then that opens a question of will
we ever be able to get there until maybe, you know,
maybe in fifty sixty years from now, where we are
operating in a different way of understanding the world because
(49:35):
there's clearly there's things that you know are not really
necessarily explainable in the moment, right. I mean, but I
often look at this in the way that you look
back in the past. You try to explain radio technology
or Wi Fi to somebody in the seventeen or sixteen hundreds,
and they'll probably get you killed for being a witch
or a wizard. You know, i'h watch this, I'm going
(49:56):
to send a message on this glowing rock and it's
going to go to somebody Germany.
Speaker 4 (50:00):
Instantly. Get out of here.
Speaker 3 (50:03):
That's that's that's total sorcery. That does that should not exist, right,
That's what they would probably tell you. So two hundred
years from now, I mean, are we going to have
some way as humans? Is there mean something else that's
you know, I don't know, I mean interdimensional stuff?
Speaker 4 (50:18):
Is that going to be normal at some point? I
really have no idea.
Speaker 3 (50:21):
I just think we're kind of at this precipice now
as a species where you know, we have so much
technology at our disposal, and it's we're kind of trending
in this one direction. What will it help us out
in the end or will we just become you know,
slaves to our own technology. I think that's the question
a lot of people are maybe asking themselves. I'm not
trying to get too philosophical or anything in here, but
(50:44):
you know, I think we also have to be careful
we don't become totally dependent on this kind of stuff.
Speaker 4 (50:47):
But that was a really.
Speaker 3 (50:48):
Roundabout answer to a question. I will say this because
I don't like to give absolutes when I answered generally.
But I sure hope we get some kind of resolution.
If we don't, then I don't know. I think that'll
people who are more into the paranormal side of things
will say, hah see, But then how do you prove
that eventually?
Speaker 4 (51:08):
You know, do you get to that point? I don't know.
Speaker 3 (51:11):
I'd like to say I remain hopeful, but again, I
could be totally wrong. We could all be totally wrong.
It could be something totally different, or this could all
be somehow, some weird collective manifestation of giant Harry Apeman
and other strange phenomena in the woods that, for whatever reason,
we've been seeing for a long time and it cannot
seem to get to the bottom of.
Speaker 4 (51:32):
Maybe that's what's going on. It's I think the open ended.
Speaker 3 (51:35):
This is what attracts a lot of people to these topics,
I think because once you get into it, you think, oh,
this will be easy album going to solve this, and
then you realize so many people have been in that
position before and haven't gotten to that point that you
kind of change. You have to change your mindset, you
have to adjust your expectations. You know, I've been doing
this long enough now where you have the time when
I get people messaging me about stuff and I have
(51:58):
this amazing footage or this or that, I temper my expectations,
not to say I don't like any of that kind
of stuff, but you know, you can only see it
so many times and be like, well, I don't know.
It's kind of a Rorschac test. You kind of see
what you want to see, unless it's something super differentive.
I mean, we're still arguing about the Patterson Gimmel film,
which was taken in nineteen sixty seven, so you know
we need a lot better than that to be able
(52:20):
to move the needle or.
Speaker 4 (52:22):
To just move things forward.
Speaker 3 (52:24):
So yeah, I got really that that I don't know
that turn in a little bit of rant there, but.
Speaker 4 (52:29):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (52:31):
I love You're very balanced and that you're you're very thoughtful,
which I which I love in anybody I took to.
I'm not going to ask you what you think of
the pas and give one footage because that's another conversation
preps for another time. What I did want to ask you, though,
was because you're a sportsman like I am, your firearms savvy.
You know, anybody who watches your videos knows that when
(52:51):
you're in dangerous places out in the boon, is your arm,
which I think makes total sense as somebody who's cognizant
of firearms. It ever make you like, makes me, to
be honest, think there are millions of people out in
the woods in North America with firearms. Why people often say,
(53:13):
well there's no bigfoot body, because well, when things die
in the woods, they decay quickly and they get eaten
by you know, the other little animals, and you know,
it all breaks down. But it doesn't bother me a way.
We don't have a body because one's dying naturally. What
bothers me is why somebody in North America hasn't pulled
the trick on one and then got a body as
a result of it.
Speaker 4 (53:33):
Well, there are stories, of course, there are very few.
Speaker 3 (53:36):
You know, we've covered some on multi monsters, the infamous
justin Smayhows story.
Speaker 4 (53:41):
You know, there's there's a few others. I suppose the a.
Speaker 3 (53:45):
Canyon there was one killed. You know, there's there's a
lot of There's more than just that. I there's a
few I'm thinking of that I can't quite think off
the top of my head.
Speaker 4 (53:54):
But you know, there's been stories.
Speaker 2 (53:56):
I remember the outbell guy who rang in what was
that guy's name? He rang a bail and were he
buried one? I forget the guys. Yeah, I mean there's
a mythology.
Speaker 4 (54:05):
Yeah, there's been high profile hoaxes.
Speaker 3 (54:07):
Of course, the two thousand and six or two thousand
and yeah, two thousand and six or two thousand and eight,
two thousand and eight Georgia Bigfoot hoax, where you know,
suppose these guys killed this thing. It turned out to
be a freezer full of possum guts with a cheesy
bigfoot costume. So there are these stories, and you know
some of these stories, uh, you know, of these things
being killed. I don't know, I don't know what to
(54:29):
make of it. I mean, you look at primates and
apes in the fossil record, gorillas and chimps are almost
non existent, you know, in terms of fossils. The Gigantipithecus,
the only reason we know it exists is because certain
parts of teeth were found in caves, and the only
reason those were even preserved were because porcupines were dragging
the bones into caves that allowed it to fossilize.
Speaker 4 (54:50):
And you know, you look at typically the environments where
a lot.
Speaker 3 (54:52):
Of these things are reported, and they're they're acidic, they're
not great for fossilization and that sort of thing.
Speaker 4 (54:58):
So I don't know, Again, we could all be wrong
about what's going on out there. You know.
Speaker 3 (55:04):
I think if these things are as smart as they
supposedly are, they probably be pretty good at avoiding people.
Speaker 4 (55:09):
But to what degree could you really you know, avoid people? Right?
Speaker 3 (55:14):
And I think some of the stories I've heard from
people out in the woods who are either actively hunting
were armed. You know, a lot of a lot of
people out in the in the back woods armed have
been so freaked out by what they've seen that they
just wanted to get out of there.
Speaker 4 (55:28):
That's a couple of stories that.
Speaker 3 (55:29):
I can think of at the top of my head,
including you know, one of a guy hunting and you're
really getting disturbed by what he was seeing. And you know,
another story I heard from a Reichter friend of mine said,
you know, he said, I don't think this this rifle
would have been big enough to kill this thing. So
you know, you can always I don't want to call
them convenient excuses, but you can always pull up stories
like that, you know.
Speaker 4 (55:47):
But I don't know, I mean, I don't know which way,
which way it'll end up going.
Speaker 3 (55:53):
And you have these stories too, of of these things
being hit by cars, you know, the quite a few stories.
You know, even the somebody I know allegedly claims they
hit one of these things and damage inside of their
car and you know, just saw it walk off, and
so you know, you imagine an impact with a vehicle
like might injure something like that. So maybe limbs off
and dies somewhere. I mean, I don't know, I don't
(56:18):
know what to make of it, but there certainly is
a lot of different theories. And you know, if there's
not a lot of these things, then I think that
kind of makes sense. But you know, you do hear
so many of these stories. There does seem to be
a lot of stories out there, so how to explain that,
I'm really not sure.
Speaker 2 (56:36):
Scorched Mama said, do you mean the guy named Bugs?
I believe that was in reference to my point about
the person who code an art bail and who had
the mom that was bugs. She's she's that was it? Well,
let's I don't remember that. Yeah, maybe maybe you can
give us a tease for some of the things we
have upcoming on either Strange Places or your other your
(56:59):
other Smoke Monster's regular show.
Speaker 3 (57:02):
Yeah, absolutely so, as I kind of talked about a
little bit getting more into the high strange and stuff
with some of those Strange Places episodes. So the Ossipee Triangle,
which is really interesting because there is one of the
craziest Bigfoot stories I've heard or that I personally have taken,
you know, is like a report took place in this area,
and there's other strange sightings in that place, but there's
(57:23):
also some kind of possible weird connection to Alistair Crowley
and the occult weird as it sounds, it's there. And
then the Bennington Triangle I'm really excited for too. I
have a really interesting story with a friend of mine
who was told by multiple hikers who experienced the same
kind of thing in the same area of Glastonbury Mountain,
which is kind of considered the epicenter of the Bennington Triangle.
(57:46):
Those are two episodes coming out about strange places within
the next few months into the fall. In appllation, Bigfoot
Files just a continuation, very neutral kind of examination of
alleged big stories and encounters in different regions of the Northeast.
And then of course the whole Appalachian Mountains.
Speaker 4 (58:05):
We've covered areas all over, you know.
Speaker 3 (58:07):
I've got a few more Vermont episodes and kind of
the New England area, and then Bigfoot Beyond the Trail.
Speaker 4 (58:14):
There will be a lot more of those coming.
Speaker 3 (58:16):
I have some trips coming up soon that I can't
talk a whole lot about, but some interesting and exciting
locations out west. And then I've got a video called
the Journey to Epe Canyon coming with Beyond the Trail.
So that's going to be going to the actual location
of where the alleged eight Canyon attack happened.
Speaker 4 (58:33):
In nineteen twenty four, but one hundred years later.
Speaker 3 (58:36):
So that's going to be really cool that it's almost
like Bigfoot archaeology because we were discovering actual remnants. I mean,
I've got a shelf over here you can't see, just
out a frame with a whole bag filled with actual
nails and materials from Ape Canyon itself that were from
the cabin site from nineteen twenty four that survived the
(58:56):
Mount Saint Helen's explosion. If you want, if you've got
one second, I can go grab that.
Speaker 4 (59:01):
I'll show you.
Speaker 2 (59:02):
That's the one I'm most interested in with mak Mysel
who got got mos great. I'm assuming most people here
are aware canyon that used to be regularly reenactment supped
in many early documentaries in front of the earliest.
Speaker 3 (59:19):
This is probably going to make a huge mess. But
this bag here, it is filled with all sorts of stuff.
So first of all we have this is some wire
hold rusty wire, and know if you can see that.
Speaker 4 (59:33):
I can from the cabin site. Now I've got an
entire bag more wire. Here's a little.
Speaker 2 (59:40):
Nail for you from the from the canyon.
Speaker 3 (59:43):
From this is from the cant Yeah, I mean I can.
I can hold this up to the camp. I don't
know if you can see this or not. But this
entire bag, I mean, there's so much dirt and stuff.
Speaker 4 (59:52):
And debris in here. But I'll just pull out a handful.
Speaker 2 (59:54):
Show you that historian. That's the stuff I love the most.
Speaker 4 (59:58):
There we go, there's a whole bunch of nails. Wow,
there you go. So this is all from the canyon site.
Speaker 3 (01:00:05):
And I've got a whole bunch of dirt from the
cay in site in this the whole pouch too. You
know these these again, these are this show is that
the area that we were in is absolutely where.
Speaker 4 (01:00:17):
So there's the there's fantastic that.
Speaker 3 (01:00:19):
Is where you know, the a canyon incident. Whether or
not there was an eight man attack, that's you know,
that's irrelevant. The cabin was a real place. I physically
went into the gold mine, the vander White gold mine.
It absolutely was real. I mean I went there. I've
been to that site and it's the one side of
the mountain that somehow survived the the Aunt Saint Helen's explosion.
(01:00:43):
So so yeah, that's a fun video. So STM has
a film coming out about that, whereas I have. When
the film just covers the whole story of the rediscovery
of the Ape cane In site by Mark Marcell. It's
a fantastic researcher. But I was lucky enough to go
on a trek there with Mark Marcell and the whole team.
And my video is more of like physical journey to
get into the canyon repelling down and it's it was.
Speaker 4 (01:01:04):
Quite an adventure. So yeah again.
Speaker 3 (01:01:06):
Oh actually, here's here's a bone too from the canyon site.
This is a deer bone, most likely from a from
some kind of mountain lion kill.
Speaker 4 (01:01:15):
But you know, I've got a whole thing the wire.
I forgot how much of the stuff I have all
left over.
Speaker 3 (01:01:19):
And you know, Mark over the years had found spoons
and forks and shell casings and all kinds of stuff
there at the cabin site. There's nothing left. I mean,
but Shane Corson of the Olympic Project and I had
actually found this one little vein where it looked like
that's where maybe one of the walls was, and that's
where we were finding all these nails and wire, and
it was in this like rotting It was basically buried
(01:01:42):
in this kind of rotting wood. So it was it's
been there for a long time, for one hundred years.
Speaker 2 (01:01:48):
It's just amazing. That's that might be my favorite early
Bigfoot story. I mean it's very early, but it's probably
it might be one of my favorite Bigfoot stories period,
the Canyon story.
Speaker 4 (01:01:59):
There's just at the comments Brown Dwarf.
Speaker 3 (01:02:02):
In the comments there was saying I got one of
those nails from Alex. Yeah, actually I visited him well
when I was I was in Bluff Creek at last
summer after I went to a canyon and I had
all these nails with me and I was giving them
to all my big footing buddies as a souvenirs.
Speaker 4 (01:02:17):
You know, we're there, like you want to. You want
an a canyon nail. Here's an a canyon nail. You know.
Speaker 3 (01:02:21):
It's just a real cool memento of just to you know. Again,
you don't even have to believe in there was a
big Foot attack there, but it is absolutely I mean
there there was a point where people are saying there
was never even a cabin these miners, it's.
Speaker 4 (01:02:32):
All made up story. Mark Marcell was absolutely able.
Speaker 3 (01:02:35):
To I don't want to say debunk it, but basically
debunk the claim that there was not a cabin. That
these guys we were there with two of the descendants
of it's like their great great grandfather or something like
that was one of the miners, and they helped rediscover
this site too, so you know again you can go
to my Facebook and check it out. A couple of
posts back, I've got pictures of going into the mine
(01:02:56):
and looking at the site and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2 (01:03:00):
As an I said, I love that the book that
Fred Beck released, I think his son helped him do
it about.
Speaker 4 (01:03:06):
I think it was like his son kind of wrote
it for him or.
Speaker 1 (01:03:09):
Something like that.
Speaker 2 (01:03:10):
His conclusion was that these things weren't flesh and blood
home and it's there was some kind of paranormal entity.
So to me, that's fascinating as well that one of
the first Bigfoot stories has this one of the key
witness perhaps has this different take, or at least through
his son interpretation. There was there was a question here
(01:03:31):
for you though, which will hit quickly from Can's squatch,
which was how was the hike up to the Epe Canyon?
Speaker 4 (01:03:36):
So the actual hike up eight Canyon is not hard
at all.
Speaker 3 (01:03:39):
It's a pretty well known trail where you can just
get up over the canyon. It's it's I mean, it's easier,
and it's easier than a lot of the trails here
on the east coast where we just go straight up
the mountain. There's a time it was a nice meandering trail.
I mean people would he bike up that trail, that's
how easy it was. But getting into the where the
site was, the cabin site is actually further down into
(01:03:59):
the canon, and that was crazy.
Speaker 4 (01:04:01):
Getting down there was, as you'll see in the video,
very sketchy, to say the least.
Speaker 3 (01:04:06):
You know, you're basically hanging onto ropes and almost repelling
down in there. Yeah, the canyon is steep. That's a great,
great comment. The canyon is crazy steep. I mean, one
wrong step and you are literally dead at at the
bottom of the canyon. So it's not the kind of
place you want to make mistakes. So we were, you know,
being extremely careful and cognizant of all the.
Speaker 4 (01:04:27):
Danger around us.
Speaker 3 (01:04:28):
But you know, it just shows the motivation of oh
my god, these guys built this cabin in this such
a desolate location. And then getting to the mine was
even more treacherous from where the cabin site was. And
I don't know how much of that was affected by
at the Mount Saint Helens eruption. I'm sure it was
covered in some ash and that sort of stuff. But
that one side of the mountain is the only side
that didn't get turned into a moon landscape like the
(01:04:50):
rest of the mountain did, because you know, the lava
flow and everything. That was the one area that there's
still these giant old growth trees. As you're hiking up
to a canyon itself, you've got these giant Douglas fir
trees all around you, whereas and then you get up
certain viewpoints and you look across and it just looks
like the moon all along the side of the mountain.
So this is the one area that got spared somehow,
(01:05:11):
and that happens to be where the cabin in the
mine was. And they were absolutely real places. And you know,
nobody can convince me otherwise because I've literally been there
and seen it. You can argue there wasn't a big
foot attack, sure, but there was definitely a cabin. And
these guys, for whatever reason, they spent years up there.
It's not like they made this story up at the
beginning of their mining career to keep people off of
(01:05:34):
there's apes. Don't go up here, it's dangerous. This was
literally at the end they had already extracted and the
amount that they extracted was not known of gold, but
it was from when newspapers reported it was a good amount.
So they definitely got pretty wealthy off of the findings
of that gold mine. And for whatever reason they had,
this incident happened toward the end of their mining days.
(01:05:55):
It wasn't again like a story that they used to
discourage people from going there, as you know, maybe some.
Speaker 2 (01:06:01):
Would rationalize, Gosh, I'm envious that you've got to go there.
Speaker 4 (01:06:05):
Oh, it was crazy. It was like, you know, it's
like one of those big footing uh.
Speaker 3 (01:06:10):
Just pilgrimage sites, a you know, very you know, it's
one of those places that's it's like Bluff Creek where
the Patterson Gimlin film was taken. That that one's a
little bit easier to get to. You drive in, you
hike in. This is like, man, I please don't try
to do this. You can die.
Speaker 4 (01:06:24):
You know.
Speaker 3 (01:06:24):
I went with people who are very good at what
they do. And you know, Mark Myrcell is a professional
land surveyor.
Speaker 4 (01:06:30):
That's like his day job.
Speaker 3 (01:06:32):
He knows how to get in and out of these places.
And you know, we had all the safety equipment and everything,
so we were equipped. But do not try this at
home and not trying to be a gatekeeper anything. I'm
just saying, you know, I have to have to throw
that disclaimer out there.
Speaker 2 (01:06:44):
Yeah, I think there What's the Ruby Creek is my
other but we can talk about that's my two favorite early.
Speaker 4 (01:06:52):
That's a great story, that's a great, great location.
Speaker 2 (01:06:55):
But so whay do people get ahold of? I mean,
I'll have links in the show notes, but for those
people who might not go to the show notes, how
do people get a hold of what you're doing? And
how do they see your future films as well as
the films we've talked about tonight.
Speaker 3 (01:07:10):
Yeah, I mean the easiest place, honestly is my website,
Petticov Media. That's p e T a k o Vmedia
dot com. I post links to all of my stuff there.
You could also look up small Town Monsters. But we
have a lot of videos. I'm not the only one
who makes videos at small Town Monsters, so you know,
we may have you know, I might have one video
(01:07:30):
come out and then there's three other videos by either
Seth or other people involved with STM putting out serious
so it can become a little confusing. But I post
my stuff directly to my website if you're curious about
any of the stuff we've talked to here, and it's
kind of broken down by section and series and that
sort of stuff. So yeah, either my website or just
look at small Town Monsters and you'll find some of
(01:07:52):
my work, inevitably, and a lot.
Speaker 4 (01:07:53):
Of other cool work. I should say too, because there's
a lot of other stuff being covered by stm.
Speaker 1 (01:07:59):
Well.
Speaker 2 (01:07:59):
I love Small Times, and I particularly love your stuff.
Speaker 4 (01:08:02):
It's always appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (01:08:03):
So fantastic, my friend. Thank you so much for coming
on Talking Weird Night again. It was great to have
you here.
Speaker 4 (01:08:09):
Thanks again for having me on Dian It's been awesome
and anytime. Man, this was fun.
Speaker 2 (01:08:13):
Man. We got to get you back to talk about
eight Canyon. When that one drops, we'll do a full
eight Canyon episode.
Speaker 4 (01:08:18):
Cool.
Speaker 2 (01:08:19):
And until I get to talk to you again, Alex,
and until I get to talk to everybody else out there,
which will be same weird time, same weird network next week.
Please keep it weird.
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