December 12, 2025 • 67 mins
Thomas M. Ferrario is a veteran of the UFO research field, and has teamed with such greats as Ted Phillips, Jacques Vallee, and Stanton Friedman. He heads the Ted Phillips Marley Woods Research Center, and has appeared on a number of high profile shows including UFO WITNESS and COAST TO COAST AM.
He has worked as a divemaster, machinist and electrical engineer on projects in the United States, Red China and Bermuda. He has been an independent UFO researcher since 1969 to 1998 at which point Walt Andrus founder of MUFON asked him to become a section director for that organization.
Later he would go on to be assistant state director for Missouri MUFON. He then co-founded the MUFON dive team with Debbie Zieglmeyer, and joined Ted Phillips as his assistant in 2006 and later became part of Ted's S.I.U team. He assisted Phillips on his Marley Woods Project and his Tetra Mountain Moon Shaft Project.
Visit Thomas' YouTube channel here:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGnWNH1lJ69TpGpFLVEeE_Q
On this episode of Talking Weird, Thomas reveals more insider knowledge, and chats about some of his ground breaking research with the late Bruce Widaman. Bruce consulted for The X-Files, and his and Thomas' investigations were real life examples of what was fictionalized on that hit series.
Thomas is a veteran UFO researcher, with decades of experience in the field, and privy to all kinds of insider secrets. So get ready for a revelatory episode of Talking Weird!
He has worked as a divemaster, machinist and electrical engineer on projects in the United States, Red China and Bermuda. He has been an independent UFO researcher since 1969 to 1998 at which point Walt Andrus founder of MUFON asked him to become a section director for that organization.
Later he would go on to be assistant state director for Missouri MUFON. He then co-founded the MUFON dive team with Debbie Zieglmeyer, and joined Ted Phillips as his assistant in 2006 and later became part of Ted's S.I.U team. He assisted Phillips on his Marley Woods Project and his Tetra Mountain Moon Shaft Project.
Visit Thomas' YouTube channel here:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGnWNH1lJ69TpGpFLVEeE_Q
On this episode of Talking Weird, Thomas reveals more insider knowledge, and chats about some of his ground breaking research with the late Bruce Widaman. Bruce consulted for The X-Files, and his and Thomas' investigations were real life examples of what was fictionalized on that hit series.
Thomas is a veteran UFO researcher, with decades of experience in the field, and privy to all kinds of insider secrets. So get ready for a revelatory episode of Talking Weird!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
The paranormal, zifos, monsters, mysteries that you're listening to Talking
Weird and know from a Kevin deep in the northwards
your hopes, Doctor Dean Bertram.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Greetings, or my fellow widows and widows, welcome to Talking
Weird on the Untold Radio Network. I'm your host, Dean Bertram,
and I'm delighted, as I always am, that you're going
to spend I hope the next hour or so of
your life with me. Whether you're watching alive when we
go out every Thursday night at nine pm Central Live,
YouTube and Facebook and x or maybe you're watching it
(01:03):
archived on one of those channels after the fact, or
perhaps you're listening to the audio only version show and
one of the many podcast platforms that Talking Weird in
All of the shows of the Untold Radio Network go
out on every week. Wherever you are, whatever part of
the world, whatever time zone you're listening to us in greetings,
thank you for being here. I hope wherever you are
(01:23):
you're warm or warmer than I am here in Wisconsin.
I'm warm inside in my cabin. Now. I was outside.
I was filming actually a little today and I was
out like almost I don't know, almost knee deep in
some snow, sitting up some lights to do a little
night shooting. It was brutal. It's only going to get
worse up here this weekend, apparently. I hope you stay
warm if you're up here in northern climbs like I am,
or maybe you're somewhere further to the south or in
(01:45):
the Southern Hemisphere and you're not going to be suffering
the cold like I am. Regardless, Yeah, thank you for
being here and welcome. I'm so happy about tonight's show.
I love the guest we have on tonight. He's always
so full of such incredible insight, and I just I
love having him on. He's been on the show a
(02:05):
few times now. He's always one of our favorite guests.
He's a veteran of the UFO research field and his
team with such greats as Ted Phillips, Jacques Vallet, and
Stanton Friedman. He heads the Ted Phillips Marley Woods Research
Center and has appeared on a number of high profile shows,
including UFO Witness and Coast to Coast am. He has
worked as a dive master, machinist and electrical engineer and
(02:27):
projects in the United States, Redshiner and Bermuda, and has
been an independent UFO researcher since nineteen sixty nine to
nineteen ninety eight, at which point What Underus, the founder
of Muffon, asked him to become a section director for
that organization. Later he would go on to be assistant
state director from Missouri Mouffon. He then co founded the
(02:47):
Mouffon Dive Team with Debbie Ziegelmeyer and join Ted Phillips
as his assistant in two thousand and six, and later
became part of Ted's SIU team. He assisted Phillips on
his Marley Woods project and his Tetra Mountain Moonshaft project,
all of which we've spoken about on the show before me.
We'll talk a little bit about those tonight as well,
although I think we're going to go and there's some
(03:08):
totally uncharted territories. So I am absolutely delighted to welcome
back to talking with Thomas Furrier.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
Hello, Dean, good to be back.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Greetings. I'm so glad you're here. I always love it.
It's been about it, you know, it's been almost a
year to the week since we've talked.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
Yeah, it is. I think around last Thanksgiving something like.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
That somewhere and I think may maybe even December, but
it was, it's been, it's been. It's so great to
have you here. What's been going on since we talked
last How's how's how's the life? And how's research? And
everything else? Coming?
Speaker 3 (03:43):
Everybody good here. I will tell you my wife recently,
in the last couple of years, beat cancer herself, and
and it's been. I'll tell you I've had so many
friends and individuals contacts in the last year passed away,
(04:03):
had cancer. A lot of our close people. And of course,
two years ago my cohor, my buddy Bruce Whiteman, the
first appointed state director of the Mutual uf ON Network,
he passed away with cancer. And we'll get into his background,
but you know, I just I valued Bruce so much
(04:26):
over the years. He was one of my mentors, and
we were so many places together, and we met it
was a unique experience. How we met I on a
phone call and I've said this before, but on a
four hour phone call with Walt Andrews one year. I
wanted to touch base. I wanted to get involved with
(04:47):
the mutual UFO network. Been investigating UFO sidings in my area,
rural area little Town Herman, Missouri, about ninety five miles
west of Saint Louis, Missouri. And I started telling some
cases I investigated to Walt, and he was so impressed.
(05:07):
He said, well, I'm going to make you state director
and assistant director and a section director. And I said, wow,
I'm not and he gave me the gentleman's named Bruce Whiteman.
And I contacted Bruce, and Bruce said, well, I'm the
state director. I do that. You're not even a member yet.
And Bruce assigned me to an Air Force colonel named
(05:29):
Jim Cross, very talented photo analyst and Air Force pilot
in the Korean War. And I worked under Jim and
learned the ropes and how to do investigations the right way.
But that was how I got contacted with Bruce. And
you know, my history was such that after I Walt
(05:50):
made me and I met with Bruce. It's a weird
twist how things happen. About two years after I was
made assistant director, I had built a home thirty years ago,
and already I can't believe that the way time's passing.
But on a Saturday morning, my wife took a phone
call and she said there's a phone call for you.
(06:11):
I think you're going to want to take. And I said, well,
who is it and she said, well, I don't know,
but they claimed to be they're two Air Force colonels.
And I said, oh, yeah, right, you know sure, and
she said, no, they are, and she said take the call.
So I took the call, and actually they were two
Air Force colonels. They wanted to buy me coffee. And
(06:33):
I spent a saturday, better part of a saturday with
these two gentlemen. I truly believed they were on a
fishing expedition, wanting to know how much I knew who
I knew. But that generated into an event years later,
I must say, and this has only happened about ten
years ago. I had a young individual that was a
(06:55):
young man back then that went into the Air Force
and he went into what's called a Nuclear Emergency Support Team,
which is called known by the NEST. And the interesting
thing about this was the gentleman and I'd love to
give you his name, but I'm not going to do
it right now, but he told me, he said, Bob,
(07:17):
I've got to talk to you sometime Tom And so
I said, that's fine, and we met and he said,
I have to This has always bothered me, and I
always wanted to tell you this story. But when I
was in the Air Force, because I was involved with
the nuclear team and they went out and found lost
nukes or any time there'd be a reading, a radiation
(07:39):
or anything on, he'd be in the team to respond.
And the gentleman told me. He said, you know, Tommy said,
when I went into my security clearance, my briefing and
they questioned me, he said, the first thing that came
up was for thirty five minutes, they asked me about you.
(08:00):
That said, what are you talking about? And he said, well,
they wanted to know about you, that they knew I
was from the same small town. They wanted to know
if I knew you, and of course we knew each
other roughly. We weren't friends, but we knew each other.
They wanted to know about me, my father and my family,
(08:21):
my background, and he said that went on for thirty
five minutes, and he said, then we went into my
clearance in history. But he said, I always I could
never understand why they were asking me about you. So
that came into play later on when I was exposed
with Bruce, and I had to get my own clearance
(08:43):
with Bruce, and we both got top security clearance for
some work that we did. But that shows you kind
of how it goes full circle sometimes just the degree
of how real this is and what goes on behind
the scene. So little did I ever think that a
(09:03):
kid going in the Air Force being part of this
team would be questioned about me. But that's what they do.
They get the background on people like that. And again
I think it was a fishing expedition and later on
it came in our own security clearance. But that's some
of the background of what goes on in this field.
(09:27):
And I will tell you with Bruce Whiteman, we put
on Bruce put on some of the greatest conferences in
Missouri and at that time they were even better than California.
And just another incredible fact with Bruce was and when
I talk about the X files being the real X files,
(09:52):
there's a fact, a little known fact, and I've tried
to contact Chris Carter as the originator of the course
the X file, and that was in nineteen ninety that
Bruce actually had a conference in Saint Louis, Missouri. And
while Bruce has the conference and there were some great people,
Stanton Freeman, Richard Hogwan, people that caliber up there, Ted Phillips.
(10:17):
Bruce noticed there was a young gentleman in the back
of the conference hall with a pad of papers, standing
leaning against the wall, making notes. And Bruce went back
there and he said, he said, why don't you come
up and sit down. And the guy said, I don't
even have a ticket. I'm not supposed to be here.
And Bruce said, don't worry about that. He says, come up,
(10:39):
and Bruce brought him up there by him and sat
in the front row. Long story short. Bruce introduced him
to all the speakers, and Bruce he's seen them taking
notes just religiously, and to every speaker he took their
names and everything and asked about abductions especially, and everything. Well.
(11:00):
The gentleman's name was Chris Carter.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
Oh wow, he.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
Told Bruce at the time in nineteen ninety before the
X Files, a couple of years before. He said, I
have an idea about a book or TV series or
a movie I want to make about the reality and
I've heard about the Mutual UFO network, and I thought
you were the people to come to to find out anything.
So in the process of two days, Bruce schooled him
(11:26):
on abductions, introduced him to some of the top investigators.
So I've been always trying to contact Chris Carter after
this to see if he remembers that the origin and
I truly believe the X Files and things that Bruce
was a part of and what he told him a
big part of the X Files, and some of the
(11:47):
episodes were very great and factual. Of course they went
to Hollywood way. Some of it was for the humor
and for out stuff, but there was always the core
and they even did a pretty good show honoring the
mutual UFO network in a couple episodes. So that's a
link between the X Files and Bruce Whiteman, and I'll
(12:09):
get into the real X Files that Bruce was a
part of, and thanks to Bruce, I accompanied him. But
so there's a little bit known fact about Bruce and
the X Files, even in the media, how Bruce affected
a great show like The X Files, and it goes
(12:30):
much deeper into the real X Files and things Bruce
was a part of. And I will tell you that,
and I am fortunate that I do have and I
think I passed it on to you a little just
a snippet, and we're working on a documentary Bruce did
before he passed away, meeting different people ufologists across the
(12:51):
United States. We're trying to put that together and get
that on. But I've got just a snippet of a
little bit of what he said about what he was
a part of.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
And uh, but yeah, why do I play that now?
Speaker 3 (13:06):
Then?
Speaker 2 (13:06):
I can't wait to get back and talk about more
of your real x false experiences. But let's put let's
put this up. I didn't know Bruce, but he seemed
like I know, he has a very one off reputation,
and from all my understanding, he was a wonderful, knowledgeable
human being and a great eufologist. But let's play let's
play this this clip from Bruce.
Speaker 3 (13:24):
Now, that'd be great.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
Hi.
Speaker 4 (13:28):
I'm Bruce Woodhaman.
Speaker 5 (13:30):
I was the Missouri Mouffine state director for many years
now Ted Phillips goes Man, probably as far as anybody,
and I happened to be in the room when Moufine started.
Speaker 4 (13:46):
Uh, I wasn't part of it. I was just an observer.
Speaker 5 (13:51):
That's one of the best, the best things that you
can be when you're looking at UFO stuff, be a
good observer. Now, Ted was probably, as far as I'm concerned,
the most reliable and the best person for physical trace
evidence in the world.
Speaker 4 (14:10):
And he did Missouri proud. We are honored that he
was part of.
Speaker 5 (14:17):
Missouri MUFON and he was also part of kufo's He
was also part of our circle of friends. I'm happy
that I knew Ted, and I can tell you many
times he was the voice of clarity, and over the
(14:40):
years you don't get that very often.
Speaker 4 (14:43):
And I was honored to know.
Speaker 5 (14:49):
Several things that will never ever be given to the public.
But it's all right, get into the subject matter and
you can look and this stuff. Tom Ferrario is a
good friend of mine also, and Ted had a great,
(15:10):
great helper, and I think he's going to do very
well with Marley. I'll do whatever I can to help
if I can, if they'll allow me to. And Ted was,
in my opinion, by himself, there's nobody else that will
(15:34):
replace him.
Speaker 4 (15:35):
He's like our other friend Stanton Friedman.
Speaker 5 (15:38):
Irreplaceable, excellent person, extraordinary person.
Speaker 4 (15:46):
And he will be missed.
Speaker 5 (15:49):
They will all be missed, and maybe someday somebody will
miss me too. But I'm still here and I wish
to I was still here.
Speaker 4 (16:02):
We need him. Maybe in the other side he'll be
helping us.
Speaker 5 (16:08):
And I want to tell all of whoever's listening, he
was a great man.
Speaker 4 (16:16):
I'm proud that he was my friend. He did miseruri right.
Speaker 5 (16:21):
And I am thankful and he had the opportunity to
work with him.
Speaker 4 (16:29):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
It's quite sad that he says one day he'll be missed,
and of course now he is missed. And I know,
I know you must miss him terribly because I know
how close you to were.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
Yeah, it's I will tell you it. It's so great
scene that that voice, that intellect. Again, Bruce was such
a wonderful guy. And uh he he knew more than
most and he did more than most, I will tell you.
And in youufology, he was one of the top people
behind the scenes. And I will tell you that at
(17:02):
his conferences he gave people, like a lot of people
their first shot or their publicized them to the point
they became so many people in the media. Now Chris
O'Brien had just passed away with a close friend of mine.
Now he's gone. John Greenwall still out there the Black Vault.
Uh doctor Robert Wood we lost. He gave him his
(17:25):
first shot in the media presenting his papers. Steven Greer,
doctor Carol Rawsen, he publicized, Richard Hogland, Stanton. I mean
it goes on and on the list. Virtually anybody you
see in the media now in ethology got a starter
or a big shot in the arm from Bruce. And
(17:45):
he just he was such a wonderful guy in the intellect.
And that's why I was so privileged working with Bruce
and being a part of things that Bruce asked me
to accompany him with. And it gets in and we'll
go there whenever you want the real ex filish things.
And I think back now and I can't believe sometimes
(18:08):
I really was a part of all this, but we were,
and I owe it to Bruce. Now. There were things
that Bruce said in that little snippeter that things that
probably will never ever be known. And I feel my
duty now because I'm virtually the last guy in our
group that is here now for however long that is.
(18:32):
And I've had some close spells lately myself, but I
would tell you that it is very real. There are
so many people in this industry researchers that come down
with illnesses and cancers and within a matter of monster
days they're gone. And it gets in I always say,
(18:55):
bad things happen to good people. And in our group,
our original group of probably seven people, I'm the only
one left. Most of them have died from cancer. One individual,
which was an excellent researcher, I will tell you, And
I'm still working with people and we're investigating this and
(19:16):
we're not going to ever be satisfied. But one researcher
that was a very great man. He got into the
genetics and the hard science and he was like a
pit bull when he got hold of something. He would
never let go or back off. But his wife came
home one day and found he committed suicide with a
(19:39):
coat hanger on the door knob. So, gosh, do we
believe that's what happened to him? That he's no, we
know it wasn't. But coat hangers are a preferred method
with some people. So I won't go I won't go
into the dark side that dark today. But I will
tell you that and myself, I've been intimid as I
(20:01):
spoke a little bit on the last show. You know,
I'll go into the handler or the some call spoop
that Bruce meant we met, but my last handler spoop
that I haven't. He's cut ties with me. Now. I
haven't spoke with him well over a year now. But
he was a gentleman that on the last show, I
(20:22):
told you he he wanted to come on with me,
and I wouldn't do that to you because he had
ulterior motives.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
And I remember I didn't want to do that.
Speaker 3 (20:30):
But he's a gentleman that always sends little notes to me.
He says, my habit, my friend, you make a habit
of saline in treacherous waters. And some people say take
that as a thrill. I take it as a compliment.
But like I told him, I said, look, I'm nobody.
I can't. I don't have any documentation. I don't have
(20:51):
any hard papers. Like Bruce didn't either accept our experience
word of mouth. And I said, and I think right now,
I honestly believe with disclosure looming coming out, I do
believe they kind of dropped a lot of the the
dark side, a lot of their their movements and ways
(21:12):
of doing business. I really believe that. And uh so,
I think that's why he hasn't contacted me. But but
over the years, I've been intimidated. I've I live in
a rural area on the county road. I've I've had
my mail gone through. I've had vehicles parked just out
of we're in sight where I could see him and
watch sit there better part of the day, and I
(21:33):
go down to try to meet them, and they take
off and it's all part of the intimidation process, and uh,
but it happens, and it's very real, and we can
go in uh anytime you'd like me into some of
the aspect.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
I was gonna say, I'm gonna I'm gonna make you
full screen. I'm gonna give you the floor tell me
about some of that, and then we'll talk about disclosure,
because I always like talking to you about it, because
it's always talk about now and there's been a new
documentary agent disclosure, and it's everywhere now, as you and
I are both aware, you've been in this far longer
than I have. But I've been in it for a
(22:10):
little while. Something has changed, There's been a change in
the approach to it. We'll get to that in a
little bit, I think. But I'm about to give you
the floor, and I'd love you to tell me all
of those things that you've been talking about, the things
which perhaps that we had Bruce hinting about, those type
of things which the general public don't know. And yeah,
(22:32):
so I'm giving you the floor now, and whatever you
want to tell us, Tom, it's entirely up to.
Speaker 3 (22:37):
You, okay, And I will do that. I'll get into
some of the details, and I will start out by
saying the way I got into this was one day
Bruce came to me and asked. He said, because Mutual
UFO Network started in Missouri, there was a process a
time when the government has started to closure so many times,
(23:01):
even with Walt Disney and on and on, and they
pulled back from it all the time. Rod Serling they
started making a movie where they pulled back and it
goes on and on. So they contacted Bruce. They were
serious about a disclosure effort. They got Bruce and they
asked Bruce to accompany him. They had members of the
(23:23):
media there and Bruce asked me if I would consider
accompanying him, and I said, well, absolutely, I will, Bruce.
So I went with Bruce. We actually went two trips
to Las Vegas. Two different occasions. We went there, sat
waited better part of a day. Each time we were
(23:44):
supposed to fly in their angle was we were going
to fly into Area fifty one to start the process
of disclosure and a press conference. We were going to
go in on Jana Airlines. Of course the moded transportation
for the workers there. Both times, within hours of us
(24:05):
leaving for the airport, it was called off. So jump
forward then five years, and this was around nine one one.
Different things were happening, and there's still key elements of
this that I could go into, but I'm choose not
to now about different things they could have affect national
(24:29):
security as far as transportation, and that's a complicated subject.
But Bruce introduced me to a gentleman and all we
knew the guy by his name. Some people call him
a spook. We were we were called turned told to call.
He was our handler. But the gentleman, all we knew
(24:51):
him by. His name was Red was our contact name
for Red, and Red shared things with us. He was
the one that took us to the Las Vegas And
then after that occurred and we were both, I mean,
we were so beyond mad and disappointed at a later date,
(25:14):
Red came to us and said, well, it's gonna happen
this time. Disclosure. We set it up and we're gonna
have you, guys, We're actually gonna have you go to Maryland.
And we did travel to Maryland and we actually this
is X fileist as you can be. But he took
us in. We went into chronicle and of course you
(25:36):
go through no cameras, electronics, anything like that, so right
away they take away your chance of ever proving this
or and it's all this is all my voice, my
speaking in this event would happen. I can't prove it.
Bruce couldn't either, but I did. On the way out,
I got to admit I got a camera in the
(25:56):
back seat of the vehicle and got out and I
did take a picture one of the signs leaving. We
left the facility, but we went in this time and
we sat three hours like in the movie, at the
end of a long table members of the media. There
other organizations there besides Moufon. We waited three four hours
(26:18):
there and at one point all the handlers came out ours.
Red came up to us and said, well, guys, it's
all off. And we at that point said, what are
you talking about. We're here, it doesn't get any better.
This is the chance do it hour you know it's
not going to happen. He said, well, Red said, you
(26:39):
guys don't understand. There's there's two regimes in this, the
old regime and the new regime. The new regime once disclosure,
the old regime doesn't win any part of it. And
knowledge is power, and they feel they're not going to
relinquish any part of this. And the Obergeam feels we
don't have to spoon feed this to anybody. If you're
interested enough, there's enough facts out well, if you're not interested,
(27:02):
that's just the way it is. So he could see
at that point we were very discouraged. So when we
left the facility, he met us in the parking lot
and he said, well, let me try to smooth this
over for you. And he said, I want to take
you over to meet a gentleman that worked with us,
and he's very knowledgeable and you can get a lot
(27:24):
of information from him. So it was about a twenty
minute ride from that facility to a gentleman name which
I don't know if you're familiar with or not, Dean,
but a gentleman named Ray Stanford, and he was in
back engineering with the government and he wrote a book
(27:44):
Secral Saucer in the Pentagon Closet.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
Oh wait, I do know, I do know. Now, I
know who it is. I was familiar with the name.
Now I know exactly who you mean.
Speaker 3 (27:54):
Yeah. And he ran Project Starlight for the government, which
was the first It was the attempt to use legsert
targeting for imagery or cameras to track and take photographs
of UFOs. And he had some success, I will tell you.
And he was brought in on projects to back engineer
(28:14):
and yes, we do have crash debris from not of
this earth technology that's not ours. And he was brought
in the back engineer that and we spent the day
at Ray's house and the man was a self taught paleontologist.
He had rocks all over. He was an incredible gentleman.
(28:35):
And but he put us through a day long lecture
of what he'd accomplished, what he'd found out about the
engineering in the craft that he worked on, specifically some
of the technology that shielded the craft and actually got
(28:58):
into the actual how the craft operated in like a
plasma envelope which when you're in that envelope, you're our
physics don't apply to what's in. And of course you
know about the pilots come forth now that have stated that,
you know, what's in the craft couldn't have been human
(29:18):
because the technology, well, it turns out that when you're
inside that envelope, in that craft, our physics don't apply.
That's how come they can the G force and everything else.
That's why they can go in and out water, uh
and no effect, no momentum loss, anything like that. So anyway,
(29:41):
we spent the day learning a lot of the technology
that was I have to admit, was way above our
heads at times. But we learned so much from Ray
and we wouldn't have had that opportunity had not been
for Red. So but I will say in the process
and here again Read told us things that filled us
(30:03):
in on whatever he thought he could, and he took
a risk at times. A few things he told us
not to share with at all I have shared now.
But the interesting thing to me was about the craft.
And when we got into ufology, he filled us in
on the behind the scenes with our government. And at
(30:26):
that time he told us, you know, he said that
and I've known this. I've worked with other theologians in
the past. I worked with a very great gentleman, Reverend
John Schroeder, and John Schroeder was kind of the field
chaplain to us in our mouf on. He was in
Saint Louis, Missouri, and he actually worked in McDonald Douglas,
(30:49):
and he worked with James McDonald and you know the
Astronautsi Apollo astronauts and that were trained in Saint Louis,
and Reverend John was their chaplain. And later on after
the moon landing and things they always they turned to
him a lot. And so John filled us in on
things that angle. And plus there were seminary students with
(31:12):
him that had actually went into the Vatican and worked there,
and of course they knew ancient Greek, Hebrew, Aramaic, and
then they worked in translating knowledge in the Vatican. And
the one thing I never expected to get from Red
was a correlation between that the Vatican is in twenty
(31:38):
four to seven contact with our government at all times,
and there behind the scenes hand controlling they're another hand
in controlling disclosure, I will tell you, but the reality
of the euthology, and he read filled us in on
crash retrievals in different bits of knowledge here and there,
(31:59):
and he was it's okay with us, He said, you
guys can whatever you want to disclose on this. I'm fine.
But he said, I don't want you ever to speaking
about the structure. The connection between the Vatican and our government,
he said, And I said, you mean the connection between
the Vatican is that's more secret. You don't want that out.
(32:22):
But it's okay. We talk about aliens our technology and
he said, yeah, so I that blew me away at
that point. But I can tell you that the Vatican,
and he goes into even the men in Black, you know,
I will tell you the things we learned that and
(32:44):
the fundamentalist and the scholars or the Jesuits in the church,
and they even have what's known as the Black Pope,
which is I believe is actually the most powerful man
on the earth. I really do. Even over the Pope
are president, what he controls the knowledge and things is
(33:05):
just monumental. But the Jesuits I did find out that
even like the men in Black that you hear of,
they are no, they're not just movie stuff. They do exist.
There are the original men in Black or the Jesuits.
Their motivation is always good and most of the time
they try to help people and actually get to the
(33:27):
bottom so called abductions, and when people are really and
they go to almost the same school, you know, as
a lot of the other technologies do, and the Jesuits
are the scholars in it. And so the first classification
of men in Black or the Jesuits. The second classification
(33:52):
is our own government, and their motivation isn't as pure.
They do help people at times, but usually their motivation
is that of covering up intimidation, shutting the sources up
with people to where ridicule is made. You know, Ridicule
(34:12):
isn't part of the scientific process at all, as I learned,
but that's what they do. And then again, the third
source of the men in Black is actually the bad
guys and that intellect that is actually the interdimensional beings themselves.
And believe me, they're real. They come across there, they're here,
(34:38):
and whatever means they need to quite a source, quite
an incident, or intimidate people they're capable of, and they do.
So we learn that from this, gentlemen, that the three
sources of the men in Black. Now it goes into another.
When you talk, you know, disclosure with people. What don't
(35:00):
realize is there's also a thing. You'll see council of
twelve men that are international in their theologians, and these
twelve individuals had the task if there's ever a natural
disaster or man made disaster and it looks like things
(35:21):
are falling apart, and the reasoning behind this kind of
eludes me. But this Council of twelve decides when and
how to do disclosure if there's going to be a
natural disaster and I'm talking one of great you know,
not just an earthquaker, tornado or hurricane. I'm talking something
(35:44):
that is earth shattering, and populations will come and go.
But this Council of twelve, with theologians and world leaders,
makes a decision that point that they've all decided that
they will do disclosure at that point before and what
(36:07):
what use it serves or what good it would serve
at that point, you know, but they've made that decision.
Speaker 2 (36:13):
So can I can I just ask you quickly flet Rooklands,
who's met? Oakland's his real name. He's he's regular listen
to the shows, the guests on the show Great Guy.
He asked me, does this have something to do with
m J twelve.
Speaker 3 (36:27):
I've we worked with Stanton Freeman and uh, he was
into that very real And it's not the same people,
I will tell you. Uh, it's it's based on that
same organizational uh structure, but it's not the same people,
I will tell you. And but the other thing I
(36:49):
will tell you that just gets into that we learned.
Of course, there's back engineering that goes on in technologies
and go in the anti gravitational propulsion. Uh, you know,
fiber optics, printed circuit. All our technologies we use now
(37:13):
came a lot of it from back engineering. And it
gets into the touchy subject is that we were talking.
We talked about and I kind of draw a conclusion
from what we were told what's going on right now?
And he told us always that beyond that and this
gets X fileish if you're if you know about a
(37:35):
lot of the episodes on that. Part of the back
engineering was genetic research and what would be brought upon
mankind and the experimentation genetically on people. Now, with the theologians
I studied with, I will tell you this gets as
(37:56):
Fallen angelish as you can imagine and as in the
days of Noah. That's so we are now, and it's
and it's things we shouldn't have been fooling around with.
And of course it's the like with the fon angels,
the remnant of the nephilim Uh that was due you know,
(38:17):
of course the genetic research search there mixing with men
the DNA, which all kinds of atrocities came forward, giants
and such and mutations which we're experimenting now with ourselves.
Even we don't really even need this, but they have
used the black engineering from this, from these sources to
(38:40):
do what they're doing. And I will tell you that
on the genetic level, I truly believe one thing they
were going to try to take over with this, and
from people still in the field that I touch base with,
I do believe that it's being brought upon us in
(39:00):
three stages. COVID was the first stage, and yes, that
was intentionally let loose on mankind. I will tell you
number two. Phase two was the course of the vaccine,
which they brought out first, you know, ninety nine point
(39:21):
nine effective, which not even the polio vaccines that effective
after all these years. That's a fallacy. Nothing iss and
it went from ninety nine point nine percent effective to
well it it will keep you from getting the COVID
as extreme as what others get it. And then it went,
(39:43):
you know, and now it's virtually useless. But but I
will tell you what that did, the vaccine and I
have family members that will fit back this up. It
lowered you une system. And not only did this affect
(40:04):
the heart in younger people, but the immunity question opened
up the door. And it's the cancer rate in individuals
never had cancer, no family history has quadruple. And it's
still on the uptick right now, which comes into play
on this and the third and the last phase of
(40:27):
this will be And this sounds terrible, I know, and
myself involved after and I do believe the vaccine is
a total cause for my wife's cancer. No family history
healthy is the horse all the time. And she came
down out of nowhere. She was first diagnosed, We had
weeks two months for her to live. We ran into
(40:51):
a gentleman in Saint Louis, Missouri that did stem cell
research and she went through stem cell reimplantation where they
bring the body down. They get the hardest chemo. They
take your stem cells out regrown and reinject that. After all,
you're into the bone marrow after the radiations killed everything,
(41:14):
and you either come away with that cured or you don't.
You don't make it. And luckily she came away with
that cured. So I will tell you in my own family,
I totally believe that the vaccine caused this. And the
other thing it caused was aphib and a lot of
individuals I came down with never had heart problems in
my family anything. I came down with aphib so bad
(41:37):
they couldn't believe that I didn't have a blood pot
and die And I went in for procedures in my
heart and had operations to cure the aphib and they
had success on that. So I do believe the vaccine
is what is it is a bad guy. Now the
(41:57):
third phase of this is really something that's hard to take.
We're very close to them announcing a cure for cancer,
and along with the cancer, they're working the new vaccines
secure cancer. They're they're actually saying now that they're working
with it a little bit that it could even the
(42:19):
same trigger mechanism that will cure cancer and keep cancer
away can actually slow down the aging process, and people
they think, now, who's going to resist that and turn
that away? But I will tell you that that third
phase of it is what totally changes our DNA at
(42:39):
that point, and the human DNA from that third phase
will no longer be human DNA to for the better,
better part of what's in it. So, now this all
sounds like a bad episode of X Files, and they
touched upon this, and.
Speaker 2 (42:58):
I was going to say, there were elements of this
in the X Files, right.
Speaker 3 (43:02):
Yeah, And it's not black oil, It's not that obvious,
believe me. But it is all very real. And I
will tell you that along with saying these things, there
is an element of risk. I know that, and after
going through what I've gone through and most of the
people that I knew are gone now, I just you know,
(43:24):
I thought it over and I just feel that I
at least it's off my chest and I've done what
I could to make some awareness of this what goes on.
But it is all very real, and and that's what
my part when I say this is the real X Files,
I will tell you that it does go on. It
(43:46):
is very real, and a lot of what you see
in the TV episodes Chris Carter got the factual stuff
that was really interesting, and you know, you know now
that the source from that A lot of that came
from mutual uf ON Network and Bruce. So that's a
(44:10):
lot to digest, I know, in one setting. But I
will tell you that that is it is the truth,
and that's what goes on.
Speaker 2 (44:20):
So do you see now changes in the disclosion narrative happening?
Like I don't know if you've said ye. Did you
watch The Age of Disclosure, which was a highly promoter too,
What were your thoughts on that? Is there truths in there?
Is it all disinformation? I mean, disinformation is a combination
(44:42):
of truth and not truth. But what was your takeaway
from that film? I'd love to know, Thomas.
Speaker 3 (44:47):
It was very good. I really liked it. I enjoyed it.
It was very factual in a lot of instance, A
lot of the people there knew what they were talking about.
The only thing I I do believe, I don't believe
that disclosure will ever be brought upon by their choosing. Now.
(45:12):
I say that I've talked about in the past about
the false flag scenario, and I truly believe that and
what that is I do believe that the disclosure will
be brought upon them because they they go, they've gon
to jump back and forth to the side of the
fence so many times. But I do believe the intelligence,
(45:32):
the intellect that's coming, and I don't believe it's long
from now. It's going to force it upon them, and
whether they like it or not, there's going to be disclosure,
and it's going to happen in ways that is not
It's it's virtually like an episode from the you know,
(45:53):
Rod Serling's Twilight Zone to serve man and that's It's
going to be nothing less, I truly believe. And besides
an actual disc circular craft landing on the White House yard,
which I think at some point that's very likely, it
could happen that way. But the other thing people need
(46:15):
to understand is in our labs, in our research labs
and facilities, just intellect, the interdimensional beings I call them,
and I have another name and know what they are,
but they will come forward. They've been working in our
lab for over eighty years. They've been working with mankind.
And no, they're not green eyed reptilians and I'll get
(46:42):
into that, but they're more like us than us, the
full pattern of us, and that gets into biblical but
they look just like us, they act, they are almost
like us, and they're gonna walk forward more or less
out of every research lab, every technology we have, and
(47:03):
come forward what they've been doing for so many years,
and that'll kind of take the sting out of it
and put people, you know, reassure people that well, if
they've been doing this, they're not here to harm us.
They're not here. And believe me, though there are, welfare
is not any part of their motivation. It really isn't.
(47:23):
Their motivation is for us to look upon them one
day as gods, which they're not, and to serve them.
And that's their whole motivation and what they want. And
that's it in a nutshell. I will tell you.
Speaker 2 (47:40):
One of the things I found fascinating in recent years,
and I don't think the media is even most of
the media hasn't even picked up on it, is that
people who have either been key play is in the
disclosion narrative, including David Grush, including Leslie Kane, who writes
the co wrote the article in twenty seventeen in The
(48:03):
New York Times, which kind of you know, blew this
all out of the water. People who were the main
media proponents were traveling with this. Tucker Carlson is a
great example. Tom DeLong is another great example, the founder
of To the Stars Academy. All of these people have
been saying that this is an extraterrestrial This is either
(48:24):
depending on who it is as saying, as interdimensional or that,
as Tucker's been saying recently, that it's spiritual somehow. And
you've been saying this for even longer, Thomas, Oh.
Speaker 3 (48:35):
Yeah, yeah, I have. I've from what I learned through
my mentors and theologians that you know, the best knowledge
things that made sense to me about uthology, entities, aliens.
The best answers I got on this earth were from
theologians and made the most sense. And you know, I
(48:58):
will tell you that the entities you see, you hear
the little gray and I know even the Mutual UFO
Network in their manual that I got investigation that there's
something like thirty seven different species of aliens. Let me
tell you what comes across the dimensional boundary when it's
(49:20):
hears as real as you and I, it's as flesh.
The form it takes is what you see it's real.
So when you deal with this, it is real. They
use this. The grays, I feel like, are more the automatons,
the worker bees. They're what's used in a safe manner
to do their bidding, their work in a safe mode.
(49:44):
The other creatures that come across so called extraterrestrials, they're
more or less manufactured to the popular gener or culture
in what's popular today. Back in the day, in the
fifties and forties, they make a movie whatever, the type
of entity would be creature alien if you go into
(50:05):
the original sighting reports, that's what they would be dealing with,
saucer man, whatever description. And there actually was a study
done on that, and they discredited people because well they've
seen this, there was a nightmare, they've seen it in
a movie. They remember this, it's not real. Well, it
was real. What they were dealing with was a manufactured
(50:28):
entity that came across the dimensional boundary for that particular
purpose to discredit these people. And so it is a
mixed bag. It's unbelievable the lengths that what it's done.
And you know, I always say that the thing about
these entities, they cannot read your mind, but they can
(50:49):
read your emotions. And I've seen demonstrations of that. And
let me tell you, if your skilled they're reading somebody's emotions,
you will absolutely make them believe you're reading their mind.
And these things don't have the ability to read your mind.
And I will say at this point that we have
(51:09):
the authority to be on this side of the dimensional
boundary and they don't. So what comes across, we have
the authority over it if we use that wisely. But
the moment you call upon this stuff and you mess
around with it is such as ouiji board a seance
in the spiritual realm. And believe me, back when I
(51:30):
was like Ted, I was a nuts and bolts man
out there. I wanted to deal with the piece of
the craft the bolts, and Ted would be out taking
compaction tests, three imprints left in the soil. He could
figure the ton into this thing within pounds, and that's
what was done. But I will tell you that it's
(51:50):
so much more than that. But it's gone full circle now.
And I will tell you that Ted, professor Allen Heinik
and up before Ted the spiritual aspect of this. He
was convinced that's what it was. Ted was that way
in the end, he absolutely believed this was all interdimensional,
(52:14):
not interplanetary. And you know, Jock Valay, of course we
worked without in Marley and I always at this point,
you know, I was so impressed by the man. He
absolutely in the beginning. He was one of the very
few in the very beginning before the movie Close Encounters.
He was going around in and he left us a
(52:35):
statement which I have on my wall framed, and I'm
just going to read that fast to you. Jock valat
statement was the UFO phenomena represents evidence for other dimensions
that simply cannot be understood apart from their psychic and
symbolic reality. What we see here is not an alien invasion.
(52:57):
It is a spiritual system that acts on you and
uses humans. Josh fully now, I say.
Speaker 2 (53:06):
That just just quickly, because this is related, I think
to what you're selling. What you're what you're saying is
both flet Rockland and Octopus with their friends wanted to
know how does this interrelate or what's the connection to
things like Bigfoot? Is it? Is it related to things
like Bigfoot?
Speaker 4 (53:24):
Somehow?
Speaker 3 (53:26):
I will tell you again. At the time, I was
like ten early years when I was out and I
was taught by an Air Force colonel to investigate UFOs,
to do the science and take statements, which is a
science in itself that even your physical gestures, you don't
even nod your head or eye contact sometimes to lead
(53:46):
a witness on. But I will tell you when we'd
be out on a case in investigating one and the
subject would bring up bigfoot, and I apologize to people
back then. I said things that I shouldn't have. I
didn't want to go there. I didn't even I would
drop the case if they if they go into they
(54:07):
had a big foot sighting in conjunction with a disk
or light in the woods, I would drop the case.
I wouldn't go any farther. I went full circle like
Ted and all them. I absolutely learned that Bigfoot is
an interdimensional being that has the capability and it gets
(54:28):
back into remnants of the nephilim. I will tell you
that they can go inter dimensional, like the Native Americans
have found out. They called them the ghost of the woods.
They can go at a moment's notice in and out
of that cross that boundary. So that's why you're never
going to find a breeding population of these things. And interestingly, enough.
(54:50):
I will tell you Chris O'Brien, a friend of mine,
passed away the Native Americans, and when they get out
and the early DNA work, when they find big foot
hair and tracks, it would come back human DNA in
it and they would throw it out. They dismissed it
as contamination in the early days. They're properly skilled people
(55:12):
over the last twenty five years out there taking samples.
And the interesting thing about it is they more carefully.
The sample is taken and it's pure, and they do
michondrial DNA. Now, the good DNA that wasn't done back then.
It shows even a stronger human presidence of DNA, which
(55:32):
absolutely goes into the remnants of the Nephelin. These things.
If you know the whole story, the fallen angels came
and bred, the giants were born, Bigfoot is and if
you read descriptions and people I've talked to witnesses, there's
been cases of hunters, you know, had this thing in
(55:55):
their side and their scope and they'd track this thing
down and when they got to it, finally had a
good shout at it. Finally the thing would turn and
look at them and they couldn't pull the trigger because
it had human characteristic, it had a face that expressed
emotion to them, and they couldn't shoot shoot this thing.
So I absolutely believe that that's what we're dealing with
(56:18):
there now. So when they're there, they're there. And we
had some of that around at Marley you know, we
had the only bigfoot sighting at Marley Woods was there
Now we knew there wasn't a living, breeding population of
these things there, and you could go through the forest,
I believe where there's frequent sightings of these things with
(56:41):
a thousand men hand to hand, and you're never going
to come upon these things if they don't want you to.
And so that's why, and I will the only part
I will find fault with when there's reports of these
things hurting humans, chasing humans, murdering humans and whatever. I
(57:01):
don't believe any of that ever happens. And and just
using your own uh you know Ockham's razor, uh these
things that the same witnesses will say these things can
outrun a deer and bring a deer down, and and
yet a human being in the woods, which are pretty
most human beings in the woods are pretty clumsy, they
(57:22):
outrun these things and get away from it now, it
doesn't make any sense. If this thing wanted you, it
would have you without question. So but that is the
way I look at bigfoot sidings. It is a real phenomena.
And when it's across, when it's here, it's as real
as you and I, and it does live leave physical
(57:45):
trace again, it leaves hair DNA, So it absolutely is real.
Speaker 2 (57:53):
No, I think I think you're you're onto something with
all of this very much. So Tom, what, uh what
do you what do you see coming? That we chat
a little bit bit about disclosure. We're getting close to
the end of the show. But do you have expectations
of what we're going to see in in in the
(58:14):
disclosion narrative, of what we're going to be told soon,
or of what's coming in the in the in the
years ahead, not like ten years ahead, but you know,
in the immediate future, in the next year or two.
Do you have a do you have an idea of
what's coming or an insight track to what's coming.
Speaker 3 (58:32):
I truly believe we're not that far away. I'm I'm
always right on the subject or the the subject matter.
I'm not always terrible at the timing. Uh, I don't
do timing well. I do believe we're within five years.
If I had to bet my that, my best guess
(58:52):
would be within five years. And what I think is
going to happen is going to be what I've talked
about before, and others harder than me have talked about.
Even Von Braun. I spent time with doctor Carol Rows
and his assistant, and Von Braun our science rocket scientists
had warned about this. She lectured about his warning about
(59:15):
the false flag and it's going to be an alien invasion.
And it's not an alien invasion. But I do believe
at some point in our near future, mankind is going
to be brought down to its knees and either an
event due to us or a natural disaster. And when
(59:36):
that happens, when we're at mankind's at his lowest, they're
going to move in. And let me tell you, they're
going to have whatever we need, whatever we require. They're
going to bring free energy, medical cures, technologies, whatever we need,
they will be there to supply it. And at that point,
(59:57):
you know, no one can question this. And even if
you question it and have doubt about it, even your
own family is going to turn you in as a
as a looney or as a nutcase, because how can
you how can you find fault with this or question this?
It's here to serve man, Well, it's not here to
serve us. We're gonna end result is it wants us
(01:00:21):
to look upon them as gods, which they're not, and
to serve them. And but I will tell you that
being full circle, now, I did go back to the
church to the theologians, I know, and I do know at
that point the big Man's gonna come down and say
(01:00:42):
who's who and put an end of this for all
time and that'll be it. But their time is sharp
when you're here. So if you have to look at anything,
a good light in this sidebar is that it won't happen.
It won't be that long a time period when they'll
be here. And uh, but that's the take I get
(01:01:02):
on it. And I've gotten that from my mentors and
from so many sources, I will tell you. And I
never expected you know, to be working in you fology
when I got started with working with theologians and people
as such. And get this from here, I am with spooks,
dealing with spooks. I never imagine I can't believe yet
(01:01:24):
we did, and you get the same story from spooks
or our handler working with the government. But I will
also say at one time, I think we're in a
different age now where and believe me, I've had trouble
in the past with podcasts. I've had my Internet taken
down when I approached subjects. I've had no interference. And
(01:01:50):
the guy I talked to, my last contact, George, that
wanted to be on the show with me on your show,
I've had no contact with him. It's just gone definitely
scient silence. And I've never had that before since I've
been in this So we're in a different age. I
think they're beyond that point now. Otherwise I do believe
(01:02:13):
this show wouldn't have probably happened tonight because.
Speaker 2 (01:02:17):
When Taker Krylson is on Joe Rogan saying the kind
of things that you've been saying for years, maybe we've
crossed that point now.
Speaker 3 (01:02:25):
You know. Yeah, it is, It truly is, And I
will tell you that otherwise I don't believe this show
would have happened tonight. Now do I think they're absolutely
watching this and probably right now or somebody checking on
Mark saying yeah, we should have took care of that
guy a long time ago, I told you. But I'm
(01:02:46):
at the point in life where, you know, so be it.
I've lived. I can't believe I'm going to be seventy one.
I really can't it. Wow, time is a you know.
My my father used to say that. But there's he said,
getting older, the older you get, the faster it goes.
And I thought, yeah, yeah, and he said, he told
(01:03:06):
me one thing I learned from my dad. He said, no,
I believe it's actually a mechanism. I think the older
you get it, you know, your mindset of time is
is your reality, And I honestly believe, but I do
believe the times we're living in now, I actually believe
Art Bell used to call it the quickening, you know,
(01:03:29):
And I do believe we're in that time frame right now,
even more so than when Art was alive. So I
do believe we're in the quickening and time is actually
and that's the other thing working against us, That time
is actually I think, progressing faster in reality on this
side now. So, but it's a multifaceted thing. And all
(01:03:52):
I can say to doubters in that is whatever I've
said here tonight. You know, take it whatever you want,
take for your worth. You don't want to believe any
of it, fine, I'm you know, I'm past that point.
I'm not trying to make believers or I'm just stating
what I've been a part of in what I know,
and people better and more educated than myself.
Speaker 2 (01:04:11):
I will tell you, well, I don't know if there's
many people who have more experiences than you and have
been in this field longer than you. So that's one
of the reasons I'm always super grateful to have you
on the show. Let's not wait for another year to
get you back. Let's get you back sooner than that,
because you're right. I think that that Bail's book The Quickening,
(01:04:32):
and he's talking about the quickening. I think he did
the quickening with the Straber, actually, but it seems more
prescient now than ever. It seems like we are racing
to some point these days. So let's get you back
on sooner than later, is my point.
Speaker 3 (01:04:46):
To, Oh, that'd be great. Well, that always with you
because you're a knowledgeable host, and and there's most of
the host out there right now that are in this
business are pretty knowledgeable, and they're good it's the level
of podcasters and hosts have improved, I will tell you
(01:05:06):
since the beginning. And but it's always a pleasure to
be on with you. I will tell you.
Speaker 2 (01:05:12):
Well, it's always so great to have you on. Is
there anywhere that you would like to direct people to
go and look out? I know you have a wonderful
YouTube channel which is in which will be in the
show notes across all the platforms, But did you want
to tell people how to get there in case they're
just listening and don't actually click through to the notes.
Speaker 3 (01:05:28):
Yeah, I've got a YouTube channel. I got like thirty
or so more movies on there, little free and I've
actually got imagery there in videos taken at Marley Woods,
the real stuff. I've got a little bit of Ted's
early years which is a great video him as a
young man, how he got started. I've got a lot
of my back history, and I just do that. I'm
(01:05:51):
not trying when I show my history when I was
an electrical engineer for years and a dive master, and
I put that all along there just to reinforce my pedigree,
to prove that maybe this guy is who he says
he is. So I'm an open book, and my wife
says too open at times, but I've dealt with that
(01:06:11):
for a lot of years. But you can learn and
see a lot of the real stuff on there, and
anything new current I want to bring it out, I'll
have it on there and my Facebook page and my
jed Philis Marley Woods page. You can get on there
and become a member and look up all the old
marley Wood stuff and I post things on their current
(01:06:32):
and it's free. Also, I don't make a dime off this.
Believe me, Over the years it's cost me more. I
have a very understanding, loving wife that's put up with
a lot. I will tell you, so I don't make
a penny off any of this.
Speaker 2 (01:06:46):
I know that that feeling all too will. But you're
an incredible gentleman. You're one of the most learned people
in the field. You're one of the most senior people
in the field, in the good way, in a veteran
person in the field, and I so appreciate you coming
on to thank you again, Thomas.
Speaker 3 (01:07:02):
Well, thank you so much, Dian.
Speaker 2 (01:07:05):
And until I get to talk to you again, Thomas,
which let's make it with than a year next time,
And until I talk to everybody else out there, which
is same weird time, same weird network, So nine pm
Central on the Untold Radio Network next Thursday. Please keep
it weird.
The paranormal, zifos, monsters, mysteries that you're listening to Talking
Weird and know from a Kevin deep in the northwards
your hopes, Doctor Dean Bertram.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Greetings, or my fellow widows and widows, welcome to Talking
Weird on the Untold Radio Network. I'm your host, Dean Bertram,
and I'm delighted, as I always am, that you're going
to spend I hope the next hour or so of
your life with me. Whether you're watching alive when we
go out every Thursday night at nine pm Central Live,
YouTube and Facebook and x or maybe you're watching it
(01:03):
archived on one of those channels after the fact, or
perhaps you're listening to the audio only version show and
one of the many podcast platforms that Talking Weird in
All of the shows of the Untold Radio Network go
out on every week. Wherever you are, whatever part of
the world, whatever time zone you're listening to us in greetings,
thank you for being here. I hope wherever you are
(01:23):
you're warm or warmer than I am here in Wisconsin.
I'm warm inside in my cabin. Now. I was outside.
I was filming actually a little today and I was
out like almost I don't know, almost knee deep in
some snow, sitting up some lights to do a little
night shooting. It was brutal. It's only going to get
worse up here this weekend, apparently. I hope you stay
warm if you're up here in northern climbs like I am,
or maybe you're somewhere further to the south or in
(01:45):
the Southern Hemisphere and you're not going to be suffering
the cold like I am. Regardless, Yeah, thank you for
being here and welcome. I'm so happy about tonight's show.
I love the guest we have on tonight. He's always
so full of such incredible insight, and I just I
love having him on. He's been on the show a
(02:05):
few times now. He's always one of our favorite guests.
He's a veteran of the UFO research field and his
team with such greats as Ted Phillips, Jacques Vallet, and
Stanton Friedman. He heads the Ted Phillips Marley Woods Research
Center and has appeared on a number of high profile shows,
including UFO Witness and Coast to Coast am. He has
worked as a dive master, machinist and electrical engineer and
(02:27):
projects in the United States, Redshiner and Bermuda, and has
been an independent UFO researcher since nineteen sixty nine to
nineteen ninety eight, at which point What Underus, the founder
of Muffon, asked him to become a section director for
that organization. Later he would go on to be assistant
state director from Missouri Mouffon. He then co founded the
(02:47):
Mouffon Dive Team with Debbie Ziegelmeyer and join Ted Phillips
as his assistant in two thousand and six, and later
became part of Ted's SIU team. He assisted Phillips on
his Marley Woods project and his Tetra Mountain Moonshaft project,
all of which we've spoken about on the show before me.
We'll talk a little bit about those tonight as well,
although I think we're going to go and there's some
(03:08):
totally uncharted territories. So I am absolutely delighted to welcome
back to talking with Thomas Furrier.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
Hello, Dean, good to be back.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Greetings. I'm so glad you're here. I always love it.
It's been about it, you know, it's been almost a
year to the week since we've talked.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
Yeah, it is. I think around last Thanksgiving something like.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
That somewhere and I think may maybe even December, but
it was, it's been, it's been. It's so great to
have you here. What's been going on since we talked
last How's how's how's the life? And how's research? And
everything else? Coming?
Speaker 3 (03:43):
Everybody good here. I will tell you my wife recently,
in the last couple of years, beat cancer herself, and
and it's been. I'll tell you I've had so many
friends and individuals contacts in the last year passed away,
(04:03):
had cancer. A lot of our close people. And of course,
two years ago my cohor, my buddy Bruce Whiteman, the
first appointed state director of the Mutual uf ON Network,
he passed away with cancer. And we'll get into his background,
but you know, I just I valued Bruce so much
(04:26):
over the years. He was one of my mentors, and
we were so many places together, and we met it
was a unique experience. How we met I on a
phone call and I've said this before, but on a
four hour phone call with Walt Andrews one year. I
wanted to touch base. I wanted to get involved with
(04:47):
the mutual UFO network. Been investigating UFO sidings in my area,
rural area little Town Herman, Missouri, about ninety five miles
west of Saint Louis, Missouri. And I started telling some
cases I investigated to Walt, and he was so impressed.
(05:07):
He said, well, I'm going to make you state director
and assistant director and a section director. And I said, wow,
I'm not and he gave me the gentleman's named Bruce Whiteman.
And I contacted Bruce, and Bruce said, well, I'm the
state director. I do that. You're not even a member yet.
And Bruce assigned me to an Air Force colonel named
(05:29):
Jim Cross, very talented photo analyst and Air Force pilot
in the Korean War. And I worked under Jim and
learned the ropes and how to do investigations the right way.
But that was how I got contacted with Bruce. And
you know, my history was such that after I Walt
(05:50):
made me and I met with Bruce. It's a weird
twist how things happen. About two years after I was
made assistant director, I had built a home thirty years ago,
and already I can't believe that the way time's passing.
But on a Saturday morning, my wife took a phone
call and she said there's a phone call for you.
(06:11):
I think you're going to want to take. And I said, well,
who is it and she said, well, I don't know,
but they claimed to be they're two Air Force colonels.
And I said, oh, yeah, right, you know sure, and
she said, no, they are, and she said take the call.
So I took the call, and actually they were two
Air Force colonels. They wanted to buy me coffee. And
(06:33):
I spent a saturday, better part of a saturday with
these two gentlemen. I truly believed they were on a
fishing expedition, wanting to know how much I knew who
I knew. But that generated into an event years later,
I must say, and this has only happened about ten
years ago. I had a young individual that was a
(06:55):
young man back then that went into the Air Force
and he went into what's called a Nuclear Emergency Support Team,
which is called known by the NEST. And the interesting
thing about this was the gentleman and I'd love to
give you his name, but I'm not going to do
it right now, but he told me, he said, Bob,
(07:17):
I've got to talk to you sometime Tom And so
I said, that's fine, and we met and he said,
I have to This has always bothered me, and I
always wanted to tell you this story. But when I
was in the Air Force, because I was involved with
the nuclear team and they went out and found lost
nukes or any time there'd be a reading, a radiation
(07:39):
or anything on, he'd be in the team to respond.
And the gentleman told me. He said, you know, Tommy said,
when I went into my security clearance, my briefing and
they questioned me, he said, the first thing that came
up was for thirty five minutes, they asked me about you.
(08:00):
That said, what are you talking about? And he said, well,
they wanted to know about you, that they knew I
was from the same small town. They wanted to know
if I knew you, and of course we knew each
other roughly. We weren't friends, but we knew each other.
They wanted to know about me, my father and my family,
(08:21):
my background, and he said that went on for thirty
five minutes, and he said, then we went into my
clearance in history. But he said, I always I could
never understand why they were asking me about you. So
that came into play later on when I was exposed
with Bruce, and I had to get my own clearance
(08:43):
with Bruce, and we both got top security clearance for
some work that we did. But that shows you kind
of how it goes full circle sometimes just the degree
of how real this is and what goes on behind
the scene. So little did I ever think that a
(09:03):
kid going in the Air Force being part of this
team would be questioned about me. But that's what they do.
They get the background on people like that. And again
I think it was a fishing expedition and later on
it came in our own security clearance. But that's some
of the background of what goes on in this field.
(09:27):
And I will tell you with Bruce Whiteman, we put
on Bruce put on some of the greatest conferences in
Missouri and at that time they were even better than California.
And just another incredible fact with Bruce was and when
I talk about the X files being the real X files,
(09:52):
there's a fact, a little known fact, and I've tried
to contact Chris Carter as the originator of the course
the X file, and that was in nineteen ninety that
Bruce actually had a conference in Saint Louis, Missouri. And
while Bruce has the conference and there were some great people,
Stanton Freeman, Richard Hogwan, people that caliber up there, Ted Phillips.
(10:17):
Bruce noticed there was a young gentleman in the back
of the conference hall with a pad of papers, standing
leaning against the wall, making notes. And Bruce went back
there and he said, he said, why don't you come
up and sit down. And the guy said, I don't
even have a ticket. I'm not supposed to be here.
And Bruce said, don't worry about that. He says, come up,
(10:39):
and Bruce brought him up there by him and sat
in the front row. Long story short. Bruce introduced him
to all the speakers, and Bruce he's seen them taking
notes just religiously, and to every speaker he took their
names and everything and asked about abductions especially, and everything. Well.
(11:00):
The gentleman's name was Chris Carter.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
Oh wow, he.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
Told Bruce at the time in nineteen ninety before the
X Files, a couple of years before. He said, I
have an idea about a book or TV series or
a movie I want to make about the reality and
I've heard about the Mutual UFO network, and I thought
you were the people to come to to find out anything.
So in the process of two days, Bruce schooled him
(11:26):
on abductions, introduced him to some of the top investigators.
So I've been always trying to contact Chris Carter after
this to see if he remembers that the origin and
I truly believe the X Files and things that Bruce
was a part of and what he told him a
big part of the X Files, and some of the
(11:47):
episodes were very great and factual. Of course they went
to Hollywood way. Some of it was for the humor
and for out stuff, but there was always the core
and they even did a pretty good show honoring the
mutual UFO network in a couple episodes. So that's a
link between the X Files and Bruce Whiteman, and I'll
(12:09):
get into the real X Files that Bruce was a
part of, and thanks to Bruce, I accompanied him. But
so there's a little bit known fact about Bruce and
the X Files, even in the media, how Bruce affected
a great show like The X Files, and it goes
(12:30):
much deeper into the real X Files and things Bruce
was a part of. And I will tell you that,
and I am fortunate that I do have and I
think I passed it on to you a little just
a snippet, and we're working on a documentary Bruce did
before he passed away, meeting different people ufologists across the
(12:51):
United States. We're trying to put that together and get
that on. But I've got just a snippet of a
little bit of what he said about what he was
a part of.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
And uh, but yeah, why do I play that now?
Speaker 3 (13:06):
Then?
Speaker 2 (13:06):
I can't wait to get back and talk about more
of your real x false experiences. But let's put let's
put this up. I didn't know Bruce, but he seemed
like I know, he has a very one off reputation,
and from all my understanding, he was a wonderful, knowledgeable
human being and a great eufologist. But let's play let's
play this this clip from Bruce.
Speaker 3 (13:24):
Now, that'd be great.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
Hi.
Speaker 4 (13:28):
I'm Bruce Woodhaman.
Speaker 5 (13:30):
I was the Missouri Mouffine state director for many years
now Ted Phillips goes Man, probably as far as anybody,
and I happened to be in the room when Moufine started.
Speaker 4 (13:46):
Uh, I wasn't part of it. I was just an observer.
Speaker 5 (13:51):
That's one of the best, the best things that you
can be when you're looking at UFO stuff, be a
good observer. Now, Ted was probably, as far as I'm concerned,
the most reliable and the best person for physical trace
evidence in the world.
Speaker 4 (14:10):
And he did Missouri proud. We are honored that he
was part of.
Speaker 5 (14:17):
Missouri MUFON and he was also part of kufo's He
was also part of our circle of friends. I'm happy
that I knew Ted, and I can tell you many
times he was the voice of clarity, and over the
(14:40):
years you don't get that very often.
Speaker 4 (14:43):
And I was honored to know.
Speaker 5 (14:49):
Several things that will never ever be given to the public.
But it's all right, get into the subject matter and
you can look and this stuff. Tom Ferrario is a
good friend of mine also, and Ted had a great,
(15:10):
great helper, and I think he's going to do very
well with Marley. I'll do whatever I can to help
if I can, if they'll allow me to. And Ted was,
in my opinion, by himself, there's nobody else that will
(15:34):
replace him.
Speaker 4 (15:35):
He's like our other friend Stanton Friedman.
Speaker 5 (15:38):
Irreplaceable, excellent person, extraordinary person.
Speaker 4 (15:46):
And he will be missed.
Speaker 5 (15:49):
They will all be missed, and maybe someday somebody will
miss me too. But I'm still here and I wish
to I was still here.
Speaker 4 (16:02):
We need him. Maybe in the other side he'll be
helping us.
Speaker 5 (16:08):
And I want to tell all of whoever's listening, he
was a great man.
Speaker 4 (16:16):
I'm proud that he was my friend. He did miseruri right.
Speaker 5 (16:21):
And I am thankful and he had the opportunity to
work with him.
Speaker 4 (16:29):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
It's quite sad that he says one day he'll be missed,
and of course now he is missed. And I know,
I know you must miss him terribly because I know
how close you to were.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
Yeah, it's I will tell you it. It's so great
scene that that voice, that intellect. Again, Bruce was such
a wonderful guy. And uh he he knew more than
most and he did more than most, I will tell you.
And in youufology, he was one of the top people
behind the scenes. And I will tell you that at
(17:02):
his conferences he gave people, like a lot of people
their first shot or their publicized them to the point
they became so many people in the media. Now Chris
O'Brien had just passed away with a close friend of mine.
Now he's gone. John Greenwall still out there the Black Vault.
Uh doctor Robert Wood we lost. He gave him his
(17:25):
first shot in the media presenting his papers. Steven Greer,
doctor Carol Rawsen, he publicized, Richard Hogland, Stanton. I mean
it goes on and on the list. Virtually anybody you
see in the media now in ethology got a starter
or a big shot in the arm from Bruce. And
(17:45):
he just he was such a wonderful guy in the intellect.
And that's why I was so privileged working with Bruce
and being a part of things that Bruce asked me
to accompany him with. And it gets in and we'll
go there whenever you want the real ex filish things.
And I think back now and I can't believe sometimes
(18:08):
I really was a part of all this, but we were,
and I owe it to Bruce. Now. There were things
that Bruce said in that little snippeter that things that
probably will never ever be known. And I feel my
duty now because I'm virtually the last guy in our
group that is here now for however long that is.
(18:32):
And I've had some close spells lately myself, but I
would tell you that it is very real. There are
so many people in this industry researchers that come down
with illnesses and cancers and within a matter of monster
days they're gone. And it gets in I always say,
(18:55):
bad things happen to good people. And in our group,
our original group of probably seven people, I'm the only
one left. Most of them have died from cancer. One individual,
which was an excellent researcher, I will tell you, And
I'm still working with people and we're investigating this and
(19:16):
we're not going to ever be satisfied. But one researcher
that was a very great man. He got into the
genetics and the hard science and he was like a
pit bull when he got hold of something. He would
never let go or back off. But his wife came
home one day and found he committed suicide with a
(19:39):
coat hanger on the door knob. So, gosh, do we
believe that's what happened to him? That he's no, we
know it wasn't. But coat hangers are a preferred method
with some people. So I won't go I won't go
into the dark side that dark today. But I will
tell you that and myself, I've been intimid as I
(20:01):
spoke a little bit on the last show. You know,
I'll go into the handler or the some call spoop
that Bruce meant we met, but my last handler spoop
that I haven't. He's cut ties with me. Now. I
haven't spoke with him well over a year now. But
he was a gentleman that on the last show, I
(20:22):
told you he he wanted to come on with me,
and I wouldn't do that to you because he had
ulterior motives.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
And I remember I didn't want to do that.
Speaker 3 (20:30):
But he's a gentleman that always sends little notes to me.
He says, my habit, my friend, you make a habit
of saline in treacherous waters. And some people say take
that as a thrill. I take it as a compliment.
But like I told him, I said, look, I'm nobody.
I can't. I don't have any documentation. I don't have
(20:51):
any hard papers. Like Bruce didn't either accept our experience
word of mouth. And I said, and I think right now,
I honestly believe with disclosure looming coming out, I do
believe they kind of dropped a lot of the the
dark side, a lot of their their movements and ways
(21:12):
of doing business. I really believe that. And uh so,
I think that's why he hasn't contacted me. But but
over the years, I've been intimidated. I've I live in
a rural area on the county road. I've I've had
my mail gone through. I've had vehicles parked just out
of we're in sight where I could see him and
watch sit there better part of the day, and I
(21:33):
go down to try to meet them, and they take
off and it's all part of the intimidation process, and uh,
but it happens, and it's very real, and we can
go in uh anytime you'd like me into some of
the aspect.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
I was gonna say, I'm gonna I'm gonna make you
full screen. I'm gonna give you the floor tell me
about some of that, and then we'll talk about disclosure,
because I always like talking to you about it, because
it's always talk about now and there's been a new
documentary agent disclosure, and it's everywhere now, as you and
I are both aware, you've been in this far longer
than I have. But I've been in it for a
(22:10):
little while. Something has changed, There's been a change in
the approach to it. We'll get to that in a
little bit, I think. But I'm about to give you
the floor, and I'd love you to tell me all
of those things that you've been talking about, the things
which perhaps that we had Bruce hinting about, those type
of things which the general public don't know. And yeah,
(22:32):
so I'm giving you the floor now, and whatever you
want to tell us, Tom, it's entirely up to.
Speaker 3 (22:37):
You, okay, And I will do that. I'll get into
some of the details, and I will start out by
saying the way I got into this was one day
Bruce came to me and asked. He said, because Mutual
UFO Network started in Missouri, there was a process a
time when the government has started to closure so many times,
(23:01):
even with Walt Disney and on and on, and they
pulled back from it all the time. Rod Serling they
started making a movie where they pulled back and it
goes on and on. So they contacted Bruce. They were
serious about a disclosure effort. They got Bruce and they
asked Bruce to accompany him. They had members of the
(23:23):
media there and Bruce asked me if I would consider
accompanying him, and I said, well, absolutely, I will, Bruce.
So I went with Bruce. We actually went two trips
to Las Vegas. Two different occasions. We went there, sat
waited better part of a day. Each time we were
(23:44):
supposed to fly in their angle was we were going
to fly into Area fifty one to start the process
of disclosure and a press conference. We were going to
go in on Jana Airlines. Of course the moded transportation
for the workers there. Both times, within hours of us
(24:05):
leaving for the airport, it was called off. So jump
forward then five years, and this was around nine one one.
Different things were happening, and there's still key elements of
this that I could go into, but I'm choose not
to now about different things they could have affect national
(24:29):
security as far as transportation, and that's a complicated subject.
But Bruce introduced me to a gentleman and all we
knew the guy by his name. Some people call him
a spook. We were we were called turned told to call.
He was our handler. But the gentleman, all we knew
(24:51):
him by. His name was Red was our contact name
for Red, and Red shared things with us. He was
the one that took us to the Las Vegas And
then after that occurred and we were both, I mean,
we were so beyond mad and disappointed at a later date,
(25:14):
Red came to us and said, well, it's gonna happen
this time. Disclosure. We set it up and we're gonna
have you, guys, We're actually gonna have you go to Maryland.
And we did travel to Maryland and we actually this
is X fileist as you can be. But he took
us in. We went into chronicle and of course you
(25:36):
go through no cameras, electronics, anything like that, so right
away they take away your chance of ever proving this
or and it's all this is all my voice, my
speaking in this event would happen. I can't prove it.
Bruce couldn't either, but I did. On the way out,
I got to admit I got a camera in the
(25:56):
back seat of the vehicle and got out and I
did take a picture one of the signs leaving. We
left the facility, but we went in this time and
we sat three hours like in the movie, at the
end of a long table members of the media. There
other organizations there besides Moufon. We waited three four hours
(26:18):
there and at one point all the handlers came out ours.
Red came up to us and said, well, guys, it's
all off. And we at that point said, what are
you talking about. We're here, it doesn't get any better.
This is the chance do it hour you know it's
not going to happen. He said, well, Red said, you
(26:39):
guys don't understand. There's there's two regimes in this, the
old regime and the new regime. The new regime once disclosure,
the old regime doesn't win any part of it. And
knowledge is power, and they feel they're not going to
relinquish any part of this. And the Obergeam feels we
don't have to spoon feed this to anybody. If you're
interested enough, there's enough facts out well, if you're not interested,
(27:02):
that's just the way it is. So he could see
at that point we were very discouraged. So when we
left the facility, he met us in the parking lot
and he said, well, let me try to smooth this
over for you. And he said, I want to take
you over to meet a gentleman that worked with us,
and he's very knowledgeable and you can get a lot
(27:24):
of information from him. So it was about a twenty
minute ride from that facility to a gentleman name which
I don't know if you're familiar with or not, Dean,
but a gentleman named Ray Stanford, and he was in
back engineering with the government and he wrote a book
(27:44):
Secral Saucer in the Pentagon Closet.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
Oh wait, I do know, I do know. Now, I
know who it is. I was familiar with the name.
Now I know exactly who you mean.
Speaker 3 (27:54):
Yeah. And he ran Project Starlight for the government, which
was the first It was the attempt to use legsert
targeting for imagery or cameras to track and take photographs
of UFOs. And he had some success, I will tell you.
And he was brought in on projects to back engineer
(28:14):
and yes, we do have crash debris from not of
this earth technology that's not ours. And he was brought
in the back engineer that and we spent the day
at Ray's house and the man was a self taught paleontologist.
He had rocks all over. He was an incredible gentleman.
(28:35):
And but he put us through a day long lecture
of what he'd accomplished, what he'd found out about the
engineering in the craft that he worked on, specifically some
of the technology that shielded the craft and actually got
(28:58):
into the actual how the craft operated in like a
plasma envelope which when you're in that envelope, you're our
physics don't apply to what's in. And of course you
know about the pilots come forth now that have stated that,
you know, what's in the craft couldn't have been human
(29:18):
because the technology, well, it turns out that when you're
inside that envelope, in that craft, our physics don't apply.
That's how come they can the G force and everything else.
That's why they can go in and out water, uh
and no effect, no momentum loss, anything like that. So anyway,
(29:41):
we spent the day learning a lot of the technology
that was I have to admit, was way above our
heads at times. But we learned so much from Ray
and we wouldn't have had that opportunity had not been
for Red. So but I will say in the process
and here again Read told us things that filled us
(30:03):
in on whatever he thought he could, and he took
a risk at times. A few things he told us
not to share with at all I have shared now.
But the interesting thing to me was about the craft.
And when we got into ufology, he filled us in
on the behind the scenes with our government. And at
(30:26):
that time he told us, you know, he said that
and I've known this. I've worked with other theologians in
the past. I worked with a very great gentleman, Reverend
John Schroeder, and John Schroeder was kind of the field
chaplain to us in our mouf on. He was in
Saint Louis, Missouri, and he actually worked in McDonald Douglas,
(30:49):
and he worked with James McDonald and you know the
Astronautsi Apollo astronauts and that were trained in Saint Louis,
and Reverend John was their chaplain. And later on after
the moon landing and things they always they turned to
him a lot. And so John filled us in on
things that angle. And plus there were seminary students with
(31:12):
him that had actually went into the Vatican and worked there,
and of course they knew ancient Greek, Hebrew, Aramaic, and
then they worked in translating knowledge in the Vatican. And
the one thing I never expected to get from Red
was a correlation between that the Vatican is in twenty
(31:38):
four to seven contact with our government at all times,
and there behind the scenes hand controlling they're another hand
in controlling disclosure, I will tell you, but the reality
of the euthology, and he read filled us in on
crash retrievals in different bits of knowledge here and there,
(31:59):
and he was it's okay with us, He said, you
guys can whatever you want to disclose on this. I'm fine.
But he said, I don't want you ever to speaking
about the structure. The connection between the Vatican and our government,
he said, And I said, you mean the connection between
the Vatican is that's more secret. You don't want that out.
(32:22):
But it's okay. We talk about aliens our technology and
he said, yeah, so I that blew me away at
that point. But I can tell you that the Vatican,
and he goes into even the men in Black, you know,
I will tell you the things we learned that and
(32:44):
the fundamentalist and the scholars or the Jesuits in the church,
and they even have what's known as the Black Pope,
which is I believe is actually the most powerful man
on the earth. I really do. Even over the Pope
are president, what he controls the knowledge and things is
(33:05):
just monumental. But the Jesuits I did find out that
even like the men in Black that you hear of,
they are no, they're not just movie stuff. They do exist.
There are the original men in Black or the Jesuits.
Their motivation is always good and most of the time
they try to help people and actually get to the
(33:27):
bottom so called abductions, and when people are really and
they go to almost the same school, you know, as
a lot of the other technologies do, and the Jesuits
are the scholars in it. And so the first classification
of men in Black or the Jesuits. The second classification
(33:52):
is our own government, and their motivation isn't as pure.
They do help people at times, but usually their motivation
is that of covering up intimidation, shutting the sources up
with people to where ridicule is made. You know, Ridicule
(34:12):
isn't part of the scientific process at all, as I learned,
but that's what they do. And then again, the third
source of the men in Black is actually the bad
guys and that intellect that is actually the interdimensional beings themselves.
And believe me, they're real. They come across there, they're here,
(34:38):
and whatever means they need to quite a source, quite
an incident, or intimidate people they're capable of, and they do.
So we learn that from this, gentlemen, that the three
sources of the men in Black. Now it goes into another.
When you talk, you know, disclosure with people. What don't
(35:00):
realize is there's also a thing. You'll see council of
twelve men that are international in their theologians, and these
twelve individuals had the task if there's ever a natural
disaster or man made disaster and it looks like things
(35:21):
are falling apart, and the reasoning behind this kind of
eludes me. But this Council of twelve decides when and
how to do disclosure if there's going to be a
natural disaster and I'm talking one of great you know,
not just an earthquaker, tornado or hurricane. I'm talking something
(35:44):
that is earth shattering, and populations will come and go.
But this Council of twelve, with theologians and world leaders,
makes a decision that point that they've all decided that
they will do disclosure at that point before and what
(36:07):
what use it serves or what good it would serve
at that point, you know, but they've made that decision.
Speaker 2 (36:13):
So can I can I just ask you quickly flet Rooklands,
who's met? Oakland's his real name. He's he's regular listen
to the shows, the guests on the show Great Guy.
He asked me, does this have something to do with
m J twelve.
Speaker 3 (36:27):
I've we worked with Stanton Freeman and uh, he was
into that very real And it's not the same people,
I will tell you. Uh, it's it's based on that
same organizational uh structure, but it's not the same people,
I will tell you. And but the other thing I
(36:49):
will tell you that just gets into that we learned.
Of course, there's back engineering that goes on in technologies
and go in the anti gravitational propulsion. Uh, you know,
fiber optics, printed circuit. All our technologies we use now
(37:13):
came a lot of it from back engineering. And it
gets into the touchy subject is that we were talking.
We talked about and I kind of draw a conclusion
from what we were told what's going on right now?
And he told us always that beyond that and this
gets X fileish if you're if you know about a
(37:35):
lot of the episodes on that. Part of the back
engineering was genetic research and what would be brought upon
mankind and the experimentation genetically on people. Now, with the theologians
I studied with, I will tell you this gets as
(37:56):
Fallen angelish as you can imagine and as in the
days of Noah. That's so we are now, and it's
and it's things we shouldn't have been fooling around with.
And of course it's the like with the fon angels,
the remnant of the nephilim Uh that was due you know,
(38:17):
of course the genetic research search there mixing with men
the DNA, which all kinds of atrocities came forward, giants
and such and mutations which we're experimenting now with ourselves.
Even we don't really even need this, but they have
used the black engineering from this, from these sources to
(38:40):
do what they're doing. And I will tell you that
on the genetic level, I truly believe one thing they
were going to try to take over with this, and
from people still in the field that I touch base with,
I do believe that it's being brought upon us in
(39:00):
three stages. COVID was the first stage, and yes, that
was intentionally let loose on mankind. I will tell you
number two. Phase two was the course of the vaccine,
which they brought out first, you know, ninety nine point
(39:21):
nine effective, which not even the polio vaccines that effective
after all these years. That's a fallacy. Nothing iss and
it went from ninety nine point nine percent effective to
well it it will keep you from getting the COVID
as extreme as what others get it. And then it went,
(39:43):
you know, and now it's virtually useless. But but I
will tell you what that did, the vaccine and I
have family members that will fit back this up. It
lowered you une system. And not only did this affect
(40:04):
the heart in younger people, but the immunity question opened
up the door. And it's the cancer rate in individuals
never had cancer, no family history has quadruple. And it's
still on the uptick right now, which comes into play
on this and the third and the last phase of
(40:27):
this will be And this sounds terrible, I know, and
myself involved after and I do believe the vaccine is
a total cause for my wife's cancer. No family history
healthy is the horse all the time. And she came
down out of nowhere. She was first diagnosed, We had
weeks two months for her to live. We ran into
(40:51):
a gentleman in Saint Louis, Missouri that did stem cell
research and she went through stem cell reimplantation where they
bring the body down. They get the hardest chemo. They
take your stem cells out regrown and reinject that. After all,
you're into the bone marrow after the radiations killed everything,
(41:14):
and you either come away with that cured or you don't.
You don't make it. And luckily she came away with
that cured. So I will tell you in my own family,
I totally believe that the vaccine caused this. And the
other thing it caused was aphib and a lot of
individuals I came down with never had heart problems in
my family anything. I came down with aphib so bad
(41:37):
they couldn't believe that I didn't have a blood pot
and die And I went in for procedures in my
heart and had operations to cure the aphib and they
had success on that. So I do believe the vaccine
is what is it is a bad guy. Now the
(41:57):
third phase of this is really something that's hard to take.
We're very close to them announcing a cure for cancer,
and along with the cancer, they're working the new vaccines
secure cancer. They're they're actually saying now that they're working
with it a little bit that it could even the
(42:19):
same trigger mechanism that will cure cancer and keep cancer
away can actually slow down the aging process, and people
they think, now, who's going to resist that and turn
that away? But I will tell you that that third
phase of it is what totally changes our DNA at
(42:39):
that point, and the human DNA from that third phase
will no longer be human DNA to for the better,
better part of what's in it. So, now this all
sounds like a bad episode of X Files, and they
touched upon this, and.
Speaker 2 (42:58):
I was going to say, there were elements of this
in the X Files, right.
Speaker 3 (43:02):
Yeah, And it's not black oil, It's not that obvious,
believe me. But it is all very real. And I
will tell you that along with saying these things, there
is an element of risk. I know that, and after
going through what I've gone through and most of the
people that I knew are gone now, I just you know,
(43:24):
I thought it over and I just feel that I
at least it's off my chest and I've done what
I could to make some awareness of this what goes on.
But it is all very real, and and that's what
my part when I say this is the real X Files,
I will tell you that it does go on. It
(43:46):
is very real, and a lot of what you see
in the TV episodes Chris Carter got the factual stuff
that was really interesting, and you know, you know now
that the source from that A lot of that came
from mutual uf ON Network and Bruce. So that's a
(44:10):
lot to digest, I know, in one setting. But I
will tell you that that is it is the truth,
and that's what goes on.
Speaker 2 (44:20):
So do you see now changes in the disclosion narrative happening?
Like I don't know if you've said ye. Did you
watch The Age of Disclosure, which was a highly promoter too,
What were your thoughts on that? Is there truths in there?
Is it all disinformation? I mean, disinformation is a combination
(44:42):
of truth and not truth. But what was your takeaway
from that film? I'd love to know, Thomas.
Speaker 3 (44:47):
It was very good. I really liked it. I enjoyed it.
It was very factual in a lot of instance, A
lot of the people there knew what they were talking about.
The only thing I I do believe, I don't believe
that disclosure will ever be brought upon by their choosing. Now.
(45:12):
I say that I've talked about in the past about
the false flag scenario, and I truly believe that and
what that is I do believe that the disclosure will
be brought upon them because they they go, they've gon
to jump back and forth to the side of the
fence so many times. But I do believe the intelligence,
(45:32):
the intellect that's coming, and I don't believe it's long
from now. It's going to force it upon them, and
whether they like it or not, there's going to be disclosure,
and it's going to happen in ways that is not
It's it's virtually like an episode from the you know,
(45:53):
Rod Serling's Twilight Zone to serve man and that's It's
going to be nothing less, I truly believe. And besides
an actual disc circular craft landing on the White House yard,
which I think at some point that's very likely, it
could happen that way. But the other thing people need
(46:15):
to understand is in our labs, in our research labs
and facilities, just intellect, the interdimensional beings I call them,
and I have another name and know what they are,
but they will come forward. They've been working in our
lab for over eighty years. They've been working with mankind.
And no, they're not green eyed reptilians and I'll get
(46:42):
into that, but they're more like us than us, the
full pattern of us, and that gets into biblical but
they look just like us, they act, they are almost
like us, and they're gonna walk forward more or less
out of every research lab, every technology we have, and
(47:03):
come forward what they've been doing for so many years,
and that'll kind of take the sting out of it
and put people, you know, reassure people that well, if
they've been doing this, they're not here to harm us.
They're not here. And believe me, though there are, welfare
is not any part of their motivation. It really isn't.
(47:23):
Their motivation is for us to look upon them one
day as gods, which they're not, and to serve them.
And that's their whole motivation and what they want. And
that's it in a nutshell. I will tell you.
Speaker 2 (47:40):
One of the things I found fascinating in recent years,
and I don't think the media is even most of
the media hasn't even picked up on it, is that
people who have either been key play is in the
disclosion narrative, including David Grush, including Leslie Kane, who writes
the co wrote the article in twenty seventeen in The
(48:03):
New York Times, which kind of you know, blew this
all out of the water. People who were the main
media proponents were traveling with this. Tucker Carlson is a
great example. Tom DeLong is another great example, the founder
of To the Stars Academy. All of these people have
been saying that this is an extraterrestrial This is either
(48:24):
depending on who it is as saying, as interdimensional or that,
as Tucker's been saying recently, that it's spiritual somehow. And
you've been saying this for even longer, Thomas, Oh.
Speaker 3 (48:35):
Yeah, yeah, I have. I've from what I learned through
my mentors and theologians that you know, the best knowledge
things that made sense to me about uthology, entities, aliens.
The best answers I got on this earth were from
theologians and made the most sense. And you know, I
(48:58):
will tell you that the entities you see, you hear
the little gray and I know even the Mutual UFO
Network in their manual that I got investigation that there's
something like thirty seven different species of aliens. Let me
tell you what comes across the dimensional boundary when it's
(49:20):
hears as real as you and I, it's as flesh.
The form it takes is what you see it's real.
So when you deal with this, it is real. They
use this. The grays, I feel like, are more the automatons,
the worker bees. They're what's used in a safe manner
to do their bidding, their work in a safe mode.
(49:44):
The other creatures that come across so called extraterrestrials, they're
more or less manufactured to the popular gener or culture
in what's popular today. Back in the day, in the
fifties and forties, they make a movie whatever, the type
of entity would be creature alien if you go into
(50:05):
the original sighting reports, that's what they would be dealing with,
saucer man, whatever description. And there actually was a study
done on that, and they discredited people because well they've
seen this, there was a nightmare, they've seen it in
a movie. They remember this, it's not real. Well, it
was real. What they were dealing with was a manufactured
(50:28):
entity that came across the dimensional boundary for that particular
purpose to discredit these people. And so it is a
mixed bag. It's unbelievable the lengths that what it's done.
And you know, I always say that the thing about
these entities, they cannot read your mind, but they can
(50:49):
read your emotions. And I've seen demonstrations of that. And
let me tell you, if your skilled they're reading somebody's emotions,
you will absolutely make them believe you're reading their mind.
And these things don't have the ability to read your mind.
And I will say at this point that we have
(51:09):
the authority to be on this side of the dimensional
boundary and they don't. So what comes across, we have
the authority over it if we use that wisely. But
the moment you call upon this stuff and you mess
around with it is such as ouiji board a seance
in the spiritual realm. And believe me, back when I
(51:30):
was like Ted, I was a nuts and bolts man
out there. I wanted to deal with the piece of
the craft the bolts, and Ted would be out taking
compaction tests, three imprints left in the soil. He could
figure the ton into this thing within pounds, and that's
what was done. But I will tell you that it's
(51:50):
so much more than that. But it's gone full circle now.
And I will tell you that Ted, professor Allen Heinik
and up before Ted the spiritual aspect of this. He
was convinced that's what it was. Ted was that way
in the end, he absolutely believed this was all interdimensional,
(52:14):
not interplanetary. And you know, Jock Valay, of course we
worked without in Marley and I always at this point,
you know, I was so impressed by the man. He
absolutely in the beginning. He was one of the very
few in the very beginning before the movie Close Encounters.
He was going around in and he left us a
(52:35):
statement which I have on my wall framed, and I'm
just going to read that fast to you. Jock valat
statement was the UFO phenomena represents evidence for other dimensions
that simply cannot be understood apart from their psychic and
symbolic reality. What we see here is not an alien invasion.
(52:57):
It is a spiritual system that acts on you and
uses humans. Josh fully now, I say.
Speaker 2 (53:06):
That just just quickly, because this is related, I think
to what you're selling. What you're what you're saying is
both flet Rockland and Octopus with their friends wanted to
know how does this interrelate or what's the connection to
things like Bigfoot? Is it? Is it related to things
like Bigfoot?
Speaker 4 (53:24):
Somehow?
Speaker 3 (53:26):
I will tell you again. At the time, I was
like ten early years when I was out and I
was taught by an Air Force colonel to investigate UFOs,
to do the science and take statements, which is a
science in itself that even your physical gestures, you don't
even nod your head or eye contact sometimes to lead
(53:46):
a witness on. But I will tell you when we'd
be out on a case in investigating one and the
subject would bring up bigfoot, and I apologize to people
back then. I said things that I shouldn't have. I
didn't want to go there. I didn't even I would
drop the case if they if they go into they
(54:07):
had a big foot sighting in conjunction with a disk
or light in the woods, I would drop the case.
I wouldn't go any farther. I went full circle like
Ted and all them. I absolutely learned that Bigfoot is
an interdimensional being that has the capability and it gets
(54:28):
back into remnants of the nephilim. I will tell you
that they can go inter dimensional, like the Native Americans
have found out. They called them the ghost of the woods.
They can go at a moment's notice in and out
of that cross that boundary. So that's why you're never
going to find a breeding population of these things. And interestingly, enough.
(54:50):
I will tell you Chris O'Brien, a friend of mine,
passed away the Native Americans, and when they get out
and the early DNA work, when they find big foot
hair and tracks, it would come back human DNA in
it and they would throw it out. They dismissed it
as contamination in the early days. They're properly skilled people
(55:12):
over the last twenty five years out there taking samples.
And the interesting thing about it is they more carefully.
The sample is taken and it's pure, and they do
michondrial DNA. Now, the good DNA that wasn't done back then.
It shows even a stronger human presidence of DNA, which
(55:32):
absolutely goes into the remnants of the Nephelin. These things.
If you know the whole story, the fallen angels came
and bred, the giants were born, Bigfoot is and if
you read descriptions and people I've talked to witnesses, there's
been cases of hunters, you know, had this thing in
(55:55):
their side and their scope and they'd track this thing
down and when they got to it, finally had a
good shout at it. Finally the thing would turn and
look at them and they couldn't pull the trigger because
it had human characteristic, it had a face that expressed
emotion to them, and they couldn't shoot shoot this thing.
So I absolutely believe that that's what we're dealing with
(56:18):
there now. So when they're there, they're there. And we
had some of that around at Marley you know, we
had the only bigfoot sighting at Marley Woods was there
Now we knew there wasn't a living, breeding population of
these things there, and you could go through the forest,
I believe where there's frequent sightings of these things with
(56:41):
a thousand men hand to hand, and you're never going
to come upon these things if they don't want you to.
And so that's why, and I will the only part
I will find fault with when there's reports of these
things hurting humans, chasing humans, murdering humans and whatever. I
(57:01):
don't believe any of that ever happens. And and just
using your own uh you know Ockham's razor, uh these
things that the same witnesses will say these things can
outrun a deer and bring a deer down, and and
yet a human being in the woods, which are pretty
most human beings in the woods are pretty clumsy, they
(57:22):
outrun these things and get away from it now, it
doesn't make any sense. If this thing wanted you, it
would have you without question. So but that is the
way I look at bigfoot sidings. It is a real phenomena.
And when it's across, when it's here, it's as real
as you and I, and it does live leave physical
(57:45):
trace again, it leaves hair DNA, So it absolutely is real.
Speaker 2 (57:53):
No, I think I think you're you're onto something with
all of this very much. So Tom, what, uh what
do you what do you see coming? That we chat
a little bit bit about disclosure. We're getting close to
the end of the show. But do you have expectations
of what we're going to see in in in the
(58:14):
disclosion narrative, of what we're going to be told soon,
or of what's coming in the in the in the
years ahead, not like ten years ahead, but you know,
in the immediate future, in the next year or two.
Do you have a do you have an idea of
what's coming or an insight track to what's coming.
Speaker 3 (58:32):
I truly believe we're not that far away. I'm I'm
always right on the subject or the the subject matter.
I'm not always terrible at the timing. Uh, I don't
do timing well. I do believe we're within five years.
If I had to bet my that, my best guess
(58:52):
would be within five years. And what I think is
going to happen is going to be what I've talked
about before, and others harder than me have talked about.
Even Von Braun. I spent time with doctor Carol Rows
and his assistant, and Von Braun our science rocket scientists
had warned about this. She lectured about his warning about
(59:15):
the false flag and it's going to be an alien invasion.
And it's not an alien invasion. But I do believe
at some point in our near future, mankind is going
to be brought down to its knees and either an
event due to us or a natural disaster. And when
(59:36):
that happens, when we're at mankind's at his lowest, they're
going to move in. And let me tell you, they're
going to have whatever we need, whatever we require. They're
going to bring free energy, medical cures, technologies, whatever we need,
they will be there to supply it. And at that point,
(59:57):
you know, no one can question this. And even if
you question it and have doubt about it, even your
own family is going to turn you in as a
as a looney or as a nutcase, because how can
you how can you find fault with this or question this?
It's here to serve man, Well, it's not here to
serve us. We're gonna end result is it wants us
(01:00:21):
to look upon them as gods, which they're not, and
to serve them. And but I will tell you that
being full circle, now, I did go back to the
church to the theologians, I know, and I do know at
that point the big Man's gonna come down and say
(01:00:42):
who's who and put an end of this for all
time and that'll be it. But their time is sharp
when you're here. So if you have to look at anything,
a good light in this sidebar is that it won't happen.
It won't be that long a time period when they'll
be here. And uh, but that's the take I get
(01:01:02):
on it. And I've gotten that from my mentors and
from so many sources, I will tell you. And I
never expected you know, to be working in you fology
when I got started with working with theologians and people
as such. And get this from here, I am with spooks,
dealing with spooks. I never imagine I can't believe yet
(01:01:24):
we did, and you get the same story from spooks
or our handler working with the government. But I will
also say at one time, I think we're in a
different age now where and believe me, I've had trouble
in the past with podcasts. I've had my Internet taken
down when I approached subjects. I've had no interference. And
(01:01:50):
the guy I talked to, my last contact, George, that
wanted to be on the show with me on your show,
I've had no contact with him. It's just gone definitely
scient silence. And I've never had that before since I've
been in this So we're in a different age. I
think they're beyond that point now. Otherwise I do believe
(01:02:13):
this show wouldn't have probably happened tonight because.
Speaker 2 (01:02:17):
When Taker Krylson is on Joe Rogan saying the kind
of things that you've been saying for years, maybe we've
crossed that point now.
Speaker 3 (01:02:25):
You know. Yeah, it is, It truly is, And I
will tell you that otherwise I don't believe this show
would have happened tonight. Now do I think they're absolutely
watching this and probably right now or somebody checking on
Mark saying yeah, we should have took care of that
guy a long time ago, I told you. But I'm
(01:02:46):
at the point in life where, you know, so be it.
I've lived. I can't believe I'm going to be seventy one.
I really can't it. Wow, time is a you know.
My my father used to say that. But there's he said,
getting older, the older you get, the faster it goes.
And I thought, yeah, yeah, and he said, he told
(01:03:06):
me one thing I learned from my dad. He said, no,
I believe it's actually a mechanism. I think the older
you get it, you know, your mindset of time is
is your reality, And I honestly believe, but I do
believe the times we're living in now, I actually believe
Art Bell used to call it the quickening, you know,
(01:03:29):
And I do believe we're in that time frame right now,
even more so than when Art was alive. So I
do believe we're in the quickening and time is actually
and that's the other thing working against us, That time
is actually I think, progressing faster in reality on this
side now. So, but it's a multifaceted thing. And all
(01:03:52):
I can say to doubters in that is whatever I've
said here tonight. You know, take it whatever you want,
take for your worth. You don't want to believe any
of it, fine, I'm you know, I'm past that point.
I'm not trying to make believers or I'm just stating
what I've been a part of in what I know,
and people better and more educated than myself.
Speaker 2 (01:04:11):
I will tell you, well, I don't know if there's
many people who have more experiences than you and have
been in this field longer than you. So that's one
of the reasons I'm always super grateful to have you
on the show. Let's not wait for another year to
get you back. Let's get you back sooner than that,
because you're right. I think that that Bail's book The Quickening,
(01:04:32):
and he's talking about the quickening. I think he did
the quickening with the Straber, actually, but it seems more
prescient now than ever. It seems like we are racing
to some point these days. So let's get you back
on sooner than later, is my point.
Speaker 3 (01:04:46):
To, Oh, that'd be great. Well, that always with you
because you're a knowledgeable host, and and there's most of
the host out there right now that are in this
business are pretty knowledgeable, and they're good it's the level
of podcasters and hosts have improved, I will tell you
(01:05:06):
since the beginning. And but it's always a pleasure to
be on with you. I will tell you.
Speaker 2 (01:05:12):
Well, it's always so great to have you on. Is
there anywhere that you would like to direct people to
go and look out? I know you have a wonderful
YouTube channel which is in which will be in the
show notes across all the platforms, But did you want
to tell people how to get there in case they're
just listening and don't actually click through to the notes.
Speaker 3 (01:05:28):
Yeah, I've got a YouTube channel. I got like thirty
or so more movies on there, little free and I've
actually got imagery there in videos taken at Marley Woods,
the real stuff. I've got a little bit of Ted's
early years which is a great video him as a
young man, how he got started. I've got a lot
of my back history, and I just do that. I'm
(01:05:51):
not trying when I show my history when I was
an electrical engineer for years and a dive master, and
I put that all along there just to reinforce my pedigree,
to prove that maybe this guy is who he says
he is. So I'm an open book, and my wife
says too open at times, but I've dealt with that
(01:06:11):
for a lot of years. But you can learn and
see a lot of the real stuff on there, and
anything new current I want to bring it out, I'll
have it on there and my Facebook page and my
jed Philis Marley Woods page. You can get on there
and become a member and look up all the old
marley Wood stuff and I post things on their current
(01:06:32):
and it's free. Also, I don't make a dime off this.
Believe me, Over the years it's cost me more. I
have a very understanding, loving wife that's put up with
a lot. I will tell you, so I don't make
a penny off any of this.
Speaker 2 (01:06:46):
I know that that feeling all too will. But you're
an incredible gentleman. You're one of the most learned people
in the field. You're one of the most senior people
in the field, in the good way, in a veteran
person in the field, and I so appreciate you coming
on to thank you again, Thomas.
Speaker 3 (01:07:02):
Well, thank you so much, Dian.
Speaker 2 (01:07:05):
And until I get to talk to you again, Thomas,
which let's make it with than a year next time,
And until I talk to everybody else out there, which
is same weird time, same weird network, So nine pm
Central on the Untold Radio Network next Thursday. Please keep
it weird.
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