College Hockey Inc. executive director Mike Snee joins hosts Jim Connelly (@jimmyconnelly) and Ed Trefzger (@EdTrefzger) to address CHL eligibility rumors, women's college hockey and CHI's new director of women's hockey Sadie Lundquist's hiring, continued expansion, educational efforts, and more.
This episode is sponsored by the NCAA Division I Men's Frozen Four, April 11 and 13 in St. Paul, Minnesota. Visit ncaa.com/mfrozenfour
This episode is sponsored by the NCAA Division I Men's Frozen Four, April 11 and 13 in St. Paul, Minnesota. Visit ncaa.com/mfrozenfour
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Usccho dot com. Welcome to usCacho Spotlight for Wednesday, February fourteenth,
twenty twenty four. This podcast issponsored by the NCAA Men's Division one Frozen
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four April eleventh and thirteenth at XcelEnergy Center in Saint Paul, Minnesota.
Visit NCAA dot com slash m Frozenfour to get your tickets. Today I'm
met Trevsker alongside Jim Connolly, andwhen we need to know what's happening on
the broad scene of players and recruitmentand college hockey eligibility, we know who
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to turn to. And joining usnow on us Echo Spotlight. He's the
executive director of College Hockey and geta good friend of college hockey. Maybe
a little early to be talking tohim. Usually a great guest at the
Frozen four, but we're talking alittle earlier this year. It's Mike's Mike,
Welcome back to the show. Andyou know, it seems to be
a pressing topic out there that Iwanted to get your input on. And
(01:08):
it's, you know, the possibilitythat that the ban of CHL players Canadian
Hockey League Major junior players use allthe terms that people might know out there
it might be allowed back into collegehockey. It's gone so many places,
and as we were just saying offthe air, a lot of rumors out
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there. I know that you haveto have your hand on the pulse of
this. Can you help us understandwhat's going on and where all this kind
of sits as of today? Sure? Yeah. First off, good morning,
and thanks for having me on.And secondly, if I wasn't awake
yet, I'm awake now after thatone. And it's certainly been a topic
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in the past maybe two months orso. I've been with college for eleven
years, and it seems to bea topic that pops up and then dies
down and then pops up. Iknow it was talked about a lot amongst
people in an informal way, probablyseven eight years ago, and now it's
the safe type of thing. AndI want to emphasize anything that you're hearing
or reading is mostly rumor. Okay, there are people voicing their opinion,
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and by people I generally mean coachesin the game, but nothing that I'm
aware of at least, and I'mpretty confident saying that nothing has formally been
discussed whatsoever. I think what ishappening right now is some coaches are maybe
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not in favor of it, they'rein favor of discussing it, and they're
vocal about it. And then somecoaches are not in favor of contemplating any
changes, and they're sharing their opinions, and that's what's leading to, you
know, whether it's the news coverageor social media opinions or whatever. So
all I want to stress, andI certainly want to stress to young players
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and their parents that the amateurism rulesand ANCAIOKI have not changed. There certainly
is nothing that's been formally discussed aboutthat now. And I never say never,
I guess just because you never saynever, but I'd say the amount
of discussion around this is out ofhand relative to where things are at and
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what has formally been discussed. Andagain again I want to s emphasize nothing's
formally been discussed in terms of that. So our emphasis is to talk to
young players and their parents. That'swhy we were founded twelve years ago or
fourteen years ago, to serve asa resource or people that are interested in
college hockey and want to know whatthey need to do, whether from amate
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standpoint, amateurism standpoint, whatever itmight be. All of those rules still
exist, we're operating like they're goingto not only exist in the short term,
but in the long term. Andjust make sure that a college hockey
is something that intrigues you, thatyou protect your amateur status. The amateur
status, I guess, is theimpetus behind the conversation nowadays. Maybe seven
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eight years ago was different, butwith NIL coming along, and obviously maybe
the amount of hockey players that aregetting paid is pretty limited as opposed to
say football or basketball, But therehave to be players at this point who
receives some NIL money, and that'susually what I think the conversation is about.
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But major junior goes I guess alittle beyond this, and that's what
makes hockey so unique in my opinion. You have NHL players that are playing
in the COCHL right now in thevarious leagues, and those are players that
didn't make their NHL roster, butthey're under contract, they're sent back down.
How much can you see the influenceof just the differences in the uniqueness
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of hockey affecting all this so thatthis is not something that the NCAA could
just talk about it across the boardof all sports that hockey is different.
In hockey is unique in the waywe have to approach, whether it's amateurism
or or just the safeguarding of thesport. Those are Those are all fair
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and obvious points. Just where NCAAathletics is today geez, I mean even
compared to the last month, youknow, then where it's say athletics are
today compared to five years ago isdifferent, especially when it comes to the
student athletes being able to have accessto making money, and whether it's making
money on their own all in thename image and likeness, or getting some
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money through all sston money or forcost of attendance or whatever it might be
hockey. And then within that contexthockey itself you just brought up as unique.
We have the delayed entry that thelength of our delayed entry that no
other sport has. We do havethis relationship and lack of relationship with this
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thing called junior hockey. So theconcept of junior hockey is pretty difficult I
think for someone to wrap their headaround that hasn't been involved in hockey and
by someone and someone in the ncaopsis. And then within junior hockey you
have junior hockey that's eligible in juniorhockey that's not eligible. And then so
that adds a layer of head scratchingto it for people that that don't pay
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a lot of attention to hockey.And then throw on top of it that
we don't have an opt in draftwith our professional league, the NHL.
The NHL has, as you know, an eighteen year old draft. Every
player in the world is eligible forit. You don't declare eligibility. So
you end up having college hockey teamswith you know, sometimes on boards of
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fifteen or sixteen drafted players on theircurrent roster. That is very unique.
You compare to football, basketball,baseball, so and then and then as
many schools that do offer college hockey, and it's growing, you know,
just Delaware just added women's college hockey. There are still just sixty four men's
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Division one programs, four to fivewomen's Division one programs combined, there's a
little more than one hundred and fiftyDivision three programs. So in the context
of all of the NCAA institutions offeringthe thirty plus sports that are offered for
women's and men's Division one, Divisiontwo, and Division three, there aren't
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a lot of them that are offeringeither men's or women's hockey. So it
is, it is a it is, And then I forgot, but the
multi sport conference nature of how thesport is frequently done. At the Division
one level, there's only one multisport conference, the Big Ten, that
offers hockey. And then you havethe blend of Division one schools and two
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schools and Division three schools that allplay at the Division one level. So
there are so many nuanced aspects tocollege hockey. And then in this context
of this changing NCAA at I thinkit's very fair what you said that that's
also leading to some of the discussionabout CHL player eligibility as well as other
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things too. It's not just theonly topic, but I do feel that
it's a constant education process with peoplenot involved with hockey and in particular college
hockey, about what makes college hockeydifferent and unique but also special. And
I think those aspects, you know, do maker sports special. Just look
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at the last time we were togetherdown in Tampa, Quinnipiac came out on
the on the men's Frozen four asthe men's national champions and they BEATD two
pretty pretty big, pretty powerful,pretty nationally ranted schools and doing so.
And that's common in college high notcommon in most other sports. So there
are aspects to the whole package ofuniqueness that I think is what really makes
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our sports so attractive and why peoplethat love college hockey love college hockey,
Mike, is there an interest inthis whole discussion from the National Hockey League?
I know one of the issues thatthey have which they could deal with
separately with CHL is players under twentyhaving to go back there. We see
that with Buffalo with Matthew Savoy.Meanwhile his brother going the college route ends
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up being able to do the normalpro route. Is there an interest in
that? Is that one of thecogs in this whole machine relative to what's
causing the discussion out there about youknow, the notion of HL eligibility.
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No, the NHL, who isa great partner of ours and in fact
there why we exist now. Theyfund us. They fund college Hockey Ink,
so clearly they're wonderful to us.They also work very closely with us
on our efforts to grow college hockey. They fund thesibility studies for any Division
I school that wants to consider addingmen's or women's hockey. They funded a
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feasibility study for Delaware, which isthe first step in the process that led
adding women's hockey. So the NHL, they're a wonderful partner. We're in
constant communication with the NHL and theyabsolutely do not I mean, they might
share their individual opinions, but thereis no pressure whatsoever to do one thing
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or the other. And I thinkthere are aspects though, that are outside
of college hockey college hockey's control relativeto all of that, such as what
you just referenced, the twenty yearold rule, which I believe all pay
a price here. But you know, if a player is dropped from a
CHL team and doesn't make his anyteam, then he has to play out
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his junior hockey eligibility with his CHLteam. That rule could be changed at
any time, and obviously that's that'san NHL rule. That's that they can
do whatever they want. And thenof course the NHL and the and the
NHLPA are almost a constantly negotiating butI think there their arrangement is their agreement
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is frequently changes. And so however, the dynamic is right now between drafted
players from the NAH, from collegehockey or bound for college hockey and how
long an NHL team owns their rightsrelative to the same language around how long
some team owns the players rights whenthey're drafted from the HL. That could
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change at any time. And reallythat's the negotiation between the NHL and the
NHLPA and nobody else. So theNHL is a wonderful partner of ours and
they have not formal they weighed ineither way on what they think college hockey
should do. I think their approachis nor have they really ever, So
I think their approach is college hockeyneeds to think about themselves and do what
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they feel is right for college court, not do what they not to do
anything whatever they take us right morewith Executive director of College Hockey Ink Mike
Snee in a moment, where aremy hockey fans at? Welcome to fandom
one oh one. It's NCAA IceHockey Championship time when the hottest teams in
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the country based off under one group. Be there to see your squad hoist
the ultimate trophy overhead the NCAA Men'sFrozen Pool April eleventh and thirteen in Saint
Paul, Minnesota. Attendance is encouragedpassion is mandator by US sees today at
NCAA dot com slash m frozen poolclass dismissed. We're back with more with
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Mike Sneave from College Hockey Inc.Mike, you've your organization has done a
lot on education in Canada, whetheryou're talking to BHL or Alberta or Ontario
or Quebec. There's been a littlebit of a shuffle up there with the
BHL leaving Hockey Canada and now fiveAlberta teams joining up with that. Do
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you see any fallout from that?What's the impact on that of players coming
to like college hockey in the US. We've had great relationships with all of
the Tier two leagues, Tier twojunior leagues or the Junior A leagues,
I guess is the preferred way ofsaying it throughout Canada, whether BHL,
A GAHL and working your way eastthrough every province when we do go to
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Canada, and a good example iswe're headed up to Ottawa next week.
We're going to be hosting some eventsin the Ottawa area for young aspiring players
that are, you know, thinkingabout NCAA hockey and we get involved with
the CCHL which is the Junior Aleague in the Ottawa area. So we
consider all of those league's partners.I think, much like you just asked
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us about the NHL, and ifwe get involved, I would say the
same thing from a college hockey standpointto the BHL and the HAHL and their
member teams is they need to dowhat they feel is best for them and
just make sure that they're not doingmaking any changes that might pose eligibility conflicts
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for their players. The big thingthere is making sure that their players are
doing what they need to do academicallyso that they remain academically eligible if they
get an opportunity to play in cahockey. So certainly have been following it,
and we're good partners with both theBHL and the AGHL, and when
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we're in those two provinces, bothsupport our events, and really it came
to our events, he'd probably thinkthey were co hosted by college hockey ink
And then you know in Alberta bythe AGHL and in British Columbia by the
BHL. So clearly a young youngman in this case that wants to play
NCAA hockey if he's from Alberta it'salmost certain he'll play in the AGHL.
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He's from British Columbia. It's almostcertain he'll playing in the BHL. Michael
switch switch topics here a little bit, and we appreciate your input that you
gave us on all of that.But some great news obviously that came out
of College Hockey Inc. In thepast six months, and it was the
fact that all the work you've donefor men's Division one ice hockey, you're
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now going to continue to that efforton the women's side. And I got
to meet Sadie long Quist, whois the director of women's hockey for College
Hockey Inc. Your newest hire.I got to meet her at the bean
Pot a couple of weeks ago.Seems excited to get a lot of stuff
going, but what was the Butit's behind that and how do you see
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this playing out over time? Theirrole probably a little bit different on the
women's side than it's had to beon the men's side. It is in
first off, we're excited that we'reable to add that role, and then
to have the person that we foundand that raised your hand for it to
be sadiel on Quist. She's impressingeverybody, and we're ecstatic to have her
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part of our small staff. Butback to the beginning, when College Hockey
was formed, it really was withone purpose, and that was to help
young players know what they needed todo to remain eligible to play college hockey,
and along with that, excite themabout college hockey and what made college
hockey so special. And I wasfourteen years ago, but as we evolved,
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we added what I would call internally, we call ourselves the PR Department
for College Hockey. All of youknow, Nate Ewle, who was with
us for a long time, hadreally laid the foundation for that about Jason
Hashkey has taken to the time fromNate a few years back, and we
haven't missed a beat when it comesto just promoting and growing college hockey in
terms of the awareness for celebrating thesport and so on. So we added
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that aspect pretty quickly after we wereformed. And then we also a few
years after we reformed, decided totake upon ourselves to be the organization that
would try to initiate or pursue thegrowth of college hockey and had a pretty
fun project right away that I think, you know, you look back on
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us sometimes you just can't believe ithappened, But that was Arizona State,
and then that really motivated all ofus to do more of that growth initiative.
And then along the way, atsome point we just said, you
know, we could be doing alot of these aspects for young girls and
young women, even though they don'thave the same eligibility consequences that a young
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boy. You know, a fourteenor fifteen year old boy might be facing
fourteen or fifteen year old girl regardlessof where she's from, she's eligible hockey,
even if she doesn't know it,or even if she doesn't even know
what NCAA hockey is yet. Sothe need was different. But we discovered
that there was a need and anopportunity to also contribute and help grow women's
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college hockey. So back to theNHL and their tremendous support. We wouldn't
be here if not for their initialgrant. We approached them about increasing our
partnership, having them increase their financialgrant so that we could add a fourth
full time staff member that could besolely focused on women's college hockey, and
that was a few years ago,and they they said yes, with their
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full support and then we were ableto hire Sadie, and I have to
say the amount of people that respondedto our job posting for that role it's
called the director of women's college Hockeywas overwhelming, which really reinforced to us
that I think grona something. Ithink there's a lot of really quality people
out there that can see the visionand the impact for what this role could
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meet to women's college hockey. Soit was a very tough decision. A
number of people highly qualified and clearlyenthusiastic for it, but Sadie set herself
apart, and now she's three anda half weeks in and she's absolutely wonderful,
had it and already making an impact. In last week when we saw
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you at the Men's bean Pot inBoston, we followed that up with a
visit with about eight different eight coachingstaffs in the New England area. Also
checked out a game at Sacred Heart, and she's off and running. So
we're excited to have her. We'reexcited that it's on heels of Delaware announcing
that they'd be adding NCAA Division Oneof women's hockey, the first NCAA hockey
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in the state of Delaware and hopeto build off of that momentum and can't
wait to see what Sadie contributes.You just mentioned Delaware, and obviously that
is expansion. I know that youhave to say stay somewhat tight lift about
maybe the parties involved. But doyou see more expansion either on the men's
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or the women's side in the comingmonths or years And you know, if
so, what kind of timelines mightyou expect? Uh, we do.
I'm very optimistic on them. I'mprobably more optimistic on growth now that I
have been, especially with Sadie onboard and putting some extra focus on women's
college hockey, perhaps even Division threewomen's college hockey. But you know,
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the growth piece, the little momentshappen where we get invigor I mean not
that we lose our excitement or enthusiasmfor it, but but something happens and
you're like, that's why we're doingthis. And this past weekend, if
you had a chance to see someof the videos from the sweep at mid
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Co Arena or Augustana, and youthink, you fan. They just opened
that building a couple of weeks agoand it's spectacular, And I watched that
crowd in that student section. Playersgo right to that student section when they
want an overtime, and that's that'swhy we're doing this. And right there
there's there's some people there falling inlove with hockey in that student section that
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if Augustan had not added hockey,they might never experience it, they might
never become a hockey fan, theymight never get their kids involved in hockey,
they might not choose to be onthe board of a youth hockey association
or something. And so you sawthat, and when they opened a couple
of weeks ago, and then nowthis weekend and the special games that they
had this past weekend, and that'sthat's what keeps us going. And I
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think also that's what serves other schoolswhen they look at that and say,
maybe we should consider that. Andthat's that's why Augustana moved forward a few
years ago with what they did,and now they've brought it to light.
Prior to them, it was ArizonaState. Now they've brought it to LFE
with their spectacular building. And then, as I just just set a few
minutes ago, Sadie and I wentto a women's game at Sacred Art at
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their new arena and that have youhave either of you been to that yet
that building? No, not yetyet. Well, I had high expectations
based on what everybody was telling me, so I really went there with the
thought that there's no way this couldexceed my expectations. And it's beautiful.
It is. It is just sucha stunning building. And so every time,
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every time that happens, that justgrows our sport a little bit more.
So. We are working with otherschools. We had a feasibility studied
recently coming to a conclusion, andthen we've got two right now. There
are different points of being prepared,so I think there's a strong momentum for
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it now. I say all thatI'm also a realist. I'm in sports.
Hockey is an expensive sport. You'renot just restripe being an existing field.
You're if you don't have a facility, you're building an expensive facility.
Augustana's facility was I can't recall exactlywhat it was, but I mean it
was sixty million, give or taketen millions. You know, either way
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you slice it, it's a lotof money. So I understand the very
real hurdles to trying to grow asport like hockey, but it's definitely worth
the effort, and I think ourefforts have paid off in a few examples,
and I'm betting that they'll continue tobe off moving forward. Well,
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Mike, we really appreciate you notjust joining us kind of last minute.
Won't lie to anybody. This weekwas sided up in less than twenty four
hours, so we appreciate you notjust joining us kind of on a lost
minute basis, but being so candidabout what you know about these key topics
that are affecting college hockey. Andwe will get to catch up with you
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again. Saint Paul. We loveheading out there, so we can't wait
to see you out there during theFrozen four. But thanks so much for
your time this morning. I appreciateit, And if I can, I
always try to do this before atthe conclusion, because we don't talk about
this as much as we probably should. But the women and men that play
college hockey, they absolutely do thejob in the classroom. So for if
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anything that we discussed that might becontroversial or unknown or whatever, what is
certain is in the classroom. Theyare absolutely student athletes. Ninety two percent
of them that play a Vision onehockey graduate. Ninety seven percent of women
that played the visual hockey graduate,So it's really a privilege for all of
us at college hockey to work ontheir behalf and represent the sport that's college
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hockey, think executive director Mike sneeJim. As we listen to Mike's discussion
and also talk to other people aroundthis, it seems like this is less
a movement to make something happen thanto be ready for something to happen.
And old baseball fans will remember thename Kurt Flood and how he broke things
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open for free agency in baseball.It sounds like it might take a player
or a family to maybe have alaw suit in the light of name,
image and likeness and eligibility as anamateur to kind of break this whole thing
open. I agree with you there. I didn't get into that with with
Mike. That's not really what hisjob is in the world of college hockey
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to think about legislation and litigation.But I do think that you're probably going
to get to that point we've seenin other sports. All it takes is
a lawsuit and things start moving.All that said is I think that even
if there was a lawsuit, whichthere are none on the table. Nobody
has filed any lawsuits yet. Andyou know, and you hear people say,
(25:41):
well, as soon as you getone, everything will change. Well,
don't be so fast thinking that.There's so many complications. I brought
up the NHL and how their impactof you know, being able to place
contracted players back into the junior hockeyleagues. That is something that you don't
see another sports. That that alonewould have to be addressed, and it
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could be changed very quickly by allowingthose same players to play in the American
Hockey League instead of sending them backto major junior. That's one issue that
comes along with it. And theother is you know, maybe it happens,
but I don't think it happens tomorrowor next year. You get a
lawsuit and you're going to get itwill get tied up in courts. It
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might move quicker than you think,but it might not. And this thing,
honestly, when you really look atthe timing of what it'll take to
change something like this legislation and allowsCHL players to play in college after they've
played major junior, that could takefive years at least. So I know,
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everybody thinks it's imminent that it's goingto happen next year. And if
you're a sixteen year old going tomajor junior this year, I don't really
plan on playing college hockey. Idon't see that happening every anytime very soon.
But you're right, the litigious natureof our society would say that some
family, some parent will just decideto file a lawsuit and then things probably
(27:14):
start accelerating on the pace that theygo. But you're right. I think
this is preparation at This is needingto be prepared, and I feel like
that is one thing that for themost part, college hockey has always been
pretty good at. They've they've alwaystried to think one step or at least
a half step ahead. Maybe thereare things that come up quickly, like
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the transfer portal like nil that reallymoved quicker than a lot of people saw
coming, and you weren't able toprepare as well for it. But I
think that this is an issue thatthe college hockey body as a whole will
be prepared for when it finally doesarise. And I think it's very important
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for us to reiterate that some ofthe rumors that have been going around are
simply not true or have been inflated. And on the other hand, it's
not the case that nothing is goingon. There are no negotiations between the
CHL and the NCAA. There's noplace, there's no formula for that to
(28:18):
happen. There hasn't been formal discussionamong leagues, although we're told that there's
been some informal discussion and maybe somestraw polling. This is not on the
agenda to make a decision on inNaples, may not even be on the
agenda yet. It's still three monthsout, so a lot of what you've
read, maybe all of what you'veread out there, no, I'll dial
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that back, not all. Mostof what you've read out there is conjecture
and rumor mongering, and things aregoing at a much slower pace than it
sounds like. As you said,in our modern society, that's become almost
a norm. One person reads headline, not the whole story, a headline,
and suddenly their opinion means everything,and that's that. And suddenly everybody's
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starting to create opinions on a topicthat they haven't studied and know nothing about.
And I'll admit it myself, Ihaven't studied this deeply. I've had
conversations with people. I probably learnedmore in the last twenty five minutes with
Mike Sneath, and I even knewabout everything that's associated with this potential change
(29:27):
for college hockey. So I thinkthat you say it right there, and
do you have to kind of cautionagainst getting into the rumors and rumor mongering
that's out there and just wait letthings play out. Then we'll see what
really happens, and we'll probably havebetter reasoning and we might actually have people
(29:48):
address things much more directly other thantrying to backdoor everything through their own opinions,
through their own set of factual factsthat are not factual, and at
some point, well, well we'llwe'll watch the process on folds and understand
things a lot better. Well,we do appreciate Mike Sneeze time on this
(30:11):
episode of US Echo Spotlight, andagain we salute all the great work that
College Hockey, Inc. Does forboth men's and women's hockey. This podcast
is sponsored by the NCAA Men's Division. One Frozen four April eleventh and thirteenth
at Excel Energy Center in Saint Paul, Minnesota. Visit NCAA dot com slash
m frozen four to get your ticketstoday for Jim Connolly. I'm Ed Trefsker
(30:34):
and this has been us Cho Spotlight
Usccho dot com. Welcome to usCacho Spotlight for Wednesday, February fourteenth,
twenty twenty four. This podcast issponsored by the NCAA Men's Division one Frozen
(00:24):
four April eleventh and thirteenth at XcelEnergy Center in Saint Paul, Minnesota.
Visit NCAA dot com slash m Frozenfour to get your tickets. Today I'm
met Trevsker alongside Jim Connolly, andwhen we need to know what's happening on
the broad scene of players and recruitmentand college hockey eligibility, we know who
(00:46):
to turn to. And joining usnow on us Echo Spotlight. He's the
executive director of College Hockey and geta good friend of college hockey. Maybe
a little early to be talking tohim. Usually a great guest at the
Frozen four, but we're talking alittle earlier this year. It's Mike's Mike,
Welcome back to the show. Andyou know, it seems to be
a pressing topic out there that Iwanted to get your input on. And
(01:08):
it's, you know, the possibilitythat that the ban of CHL players Canadian
Hockey League Major junior players use allthe terms that people might know out there
it might be allowed back into collegehockey. It's gone so many places,
and as we were just saying offthe air, a lot of rumors out
(01:30):
there. I know that you haveto have your hand on the pulse of
this. Can you help us understandwhat's going on and where all this kind
of sits as of today? Sure? Yeah. First off, good morning,
and thanks for having me on.And secondly, if I wasn't awake
yet, I'm awake now after thatone. And it's certainly been a topic
(01:56):
in the past maybe two months orso. I've been with college for eleven
years, and it seems to bea topic that pops up and then dies
down and then pops up. Iknow it was talked about a lot amongst
people in an informal way, probablyseven eight years ago, and now it's
the safe type of thing. AndI want to emphasize anything that you're hearing
or reading is mostly rumor. Okay, there are people voicing their opinion,
(02:23):
and by people I generally mean coachesin the game, but nothing that I'm
aware of at least, and I'mpretty confident saying that nothing has formally been
discussed whatsoever. I think what ishappening right now is some coaches are maybe
(02:45):
not in favor of it, they'rein favor of discussing it, and they're
vocal about it. And then somecoaches are not in favor of contemplating any
changes, and they're sharing their opinions, and that's what's leading to, you
know, whether it's the news coverageor social media opinions or whatever. So
all I want to stress, andI certainly want to stress to young players
(03:07):
and their parents that the amateurism rulesand ANCAIOKI have not changed. There certainly
is nothing that's been formally discussed aboutthat now. And I never say never,
I guess just because you never saynever, but I'd say the amount
of discussion around this is out ofhand relative to where things are at and
(03:34):
what has formally been discussed. Andagain again I want to s emphasize nothing's
formally been discussed in terms of that. So our emphasis is to talk to
young players and their parents. That'swhy we were founded twelve years ago or
fourteen years ago, to serve asa resource or people that are interested in
college hockey and want to know whatthey need to do, whether from amate
(03:55):
standpoint, amateurism standpoint, whatever itmight be. All of those rules still
exist, we're operating like they're goingto not only exist in the short term,
but in the long term. Andjust make sure that a college hockey
is something that intrigues you, thatyou protect your amateur status. The amateur
status, I guess, is theimpetus behind the conversation nowadays. Maybe seven
(04:16):
eight years ago was different, butwith NIL coming along, and obviously maybe
the amount of hockey players that aregetting paid is pretty limited as opposed to
say football or basketball, But therehave to be players at this point who
receives some NIL money, and that'susually what I think the conversation is about.
(04:39):
But major junior goes I guess alittle beyond this, and that's what
makes hockey so unique in my opinion. You have NHL players that are playing
in the COCHL right now in thevarious leagues, and those are players that
didn't make their NHL roster, butthey're under contract, they're sent back down.
How much can you see the influenceof just the differences in the uniqueness
(05:03):
of hockey affecting all this so thatthis is not something that the NCAA could
just talk about it across the boardof all sports that hockey is different.
In hockey is unique in the waywe have to approach, whether it's amateurism
or or just the safeguarding of thesport. Those are Those are all fair
(05:27):
and obvious points. Just where NCAAathletics is today geez, I mean even
compared to the last month, youknow, then where it's say athletics are
today compared to five years ago isdifferent, especially when it comes to the
student athletes being able to have accessto making money, and whether it's making
money on their own all in thename image and likeness, or getting some
(05:50):
money through all sston money or forcost of attendance or whatever it might be
hockey. And then within that contexthockey itself you just brought up as unique.
We have the delayed entry that thelength of our delayed entry that no
other sport has. We do havethis relationship and lack of relationship with this
(06:12):
thing called junior hockey. So theconcept of junior hockey is pretty difficult I
think for someone to wrap their headaround that hasn't been involved in hockey and
by someone and someone in the ncaopsis. And then within junior hockey you
have junior hockey that's eligible in juniorhockey that's not eligible. And then so
that adds a layer of head scratchingto it for people that that don't pay
(06:34):
a lot of attention to hockey.And then throw on top of it that
we don't have an opt in draftwith our professional league, the NHL.
The NHL has, as you know, an eighteen year old draft. Every
player in the world is eligible forit. You don't declare eligibility. So
you end up having college hockey teamswith you know, sometimes on boards of
(06:54):
fifteen or sixteen drafted players on theircurrent roster. That is very unique.
You compare to football, basketball,baseball, so and then and then as
many schools that do offer college hockey, and it's growing, you know,
just Delaware just added women's college hockey. There are still just sixty four men's
(07:15):
Division one programs, four to fivewomen's Division one programs combined, there's a
little more than one hundred and fiftyDivision three programs. So in the context
of all of the NCAA institutions offeringthe thirty plus sports that are offered for
women's and men's Division one, Divisiontwo, and Division three, there aren't
(07:36):
a lot of them that are offeringeither men's or women's hockey. So it
is, it is a it is, And then I forgot, but the
multi sport conference nature of how thesport is frequently done. At the Division
one level, there's only one multisport conference, the Big Ten, that
offers hockey. And then you havethe blend of Division one schools and two
(08:00):
schools and Division three schools that allplay at the Division one level. So
there are so many nuanced aspects tocollege hockey. And then in this context
of this changing NCAA at I thinkit's very fair what you said that that's
also leading to some of the discussionabout CHL player eligibility as well as other
(08:22):
things too. It's not just theonly topic, but I do feel that
it's a constant education process with peoplenot involved with hockey and in particular college
hockey, about what makes college hockeydifferent and unique but also special. And
I think those aspects, you know, do maker sports special. Just look
(08:43):
at the last time we were togetherdown in Tampa, Quinnipiac came out on
the on the men's Frozen four asthe men's national champions and they BEATD two
pretty pretty big, pretty powerful,pretty nationally ranted schools and doing so.
And that's common in college high notcommon in most other sports. So there
are aspects to the whole package ofuniqueness that I think is what really makes
(09:07):
our sports so attractive and why peoplethat love college hockey love college hockey,
Mike, is there an interest inthis whole discussion from the National Hockey League?
I know one of the issues thatthey have which they could deal with
separately with CHL is players under twentyhaving to go back there. We see
that with Buffalo with Matthew Savoy.Meanwhile his brother going the college route ends
(09:33):
up being able to do the normalpro route. Is there an interest in
that? Is that one of thecogs in this whole machine relative to what's
causing the discussion out there about youknow, the notion of HL eligibility.
(09:54):
No, the NHL, who isa great partner of ours and in fact
there why we exist now. Theyfund us. They fund college Hockey Ink,
so clearly they're wonderful to us.They also work very closely with us
on our efforts to grow college hockey. They fund thesibility studies for any Division
I school that wants to consider addingmen's or women's hockey. They funded a
(10:18):
feasibility study for Delaware, which isthe first step in the process that led
adding women's hockey. So the NHL, they're a wonderful partner. We're in
constant communication with the NHL and theyabsolutely do not I mean, they might
share their individual opinions, but thereis no pressure whatsoever to do one thing
(10:39):
or the other. And I thinkthere are aspects though, that are outside
of college hockey college hockey's control relativeto all of that, such as what
you just referenced, the twenty yearold rule, which I believe all pay
a price here. But you know, if a player is dropped from a
CHL team and doesn't make his anyteam, then he has to play out
(11:01):
his junior hockey eligibility with his CHLteam. That rule could be changed at
any time, and obviously that's that'san NHL rule. That's that they can
do whatever they want. And thenof course the NHL and the and the
NHLPA are almost a constantly negotiating butI think there their arrangement is their agreement
(11:24):
is frequently changes. And so however, the dynamic is right now between drafted
players from the NAH, from collegehockey or bound for college hockey and how
long an NHL team owns their rightsrelative to the same language around how long
some team owns the players rights whenthey're drafted from the HL. That could
(11:48):
change at any time. And reallythat's the negotiation between the NHL and the
NHLPA and nobody else. So theNHL is a wonderful partner of ours and
they have not formal they weighed ineither way on what they think college hockey
should do. I think their approachis nor have they really ever, So
I think their approach is college hockeyneeds to think about themselves and do what
(12:11):
they feel is right for college court, not do what they not to do
anything whatever they take us right morewith Executive director of College Hockey Ink Mike
Snee in a moment, where aremy hockey fans at? Welcome to fandom
one oh one. It's NCAA IceHockey Championship time when the hottest teams in
(12:35):
the country based off under one group. Be there to see your squad hoist
the ultimate trophy overhead the NCAA Men'sFrozen Pool April eleventh and thirteen in Saint
Paul, Minnesota. Attendance is encouragedpassion is mandator by US sees today at
NCAA dot com slash m frozen poolclass dismissed. We're back with more with
(13:03):
Mike Sneave from College Hockey Inc.Mike, you've your organization has done a
lot on education in Canada, whetheryou're talking to BHL or Alberta or Ontario
or Quebec. There's been a littlebit of a shuffle up there with the
BHL leaving Hockey Canada and now fiveAlberta teams joining up with that. Do
(13:26):
you see any fallout from that?What's the impact on that of players coming
to like college hockey in the US. We've had great relationships with all of
the Tier two leagues, Tier twojunior leagues or the Junior A leagues,
I guess is the preferred way ofsaying it throughout Canada, whether BHL,
A GAHL and working your way eastthrough every province when we do go to
(13:50):
Canada, and a good example iswe're headed up to Ottawa next week.
We're going to be hosting some eventsin the Ottawa area for young aspiring players
that are, you know, thinkingabout NCAA hockey and we get involved with
the CCHL which is the Junior Aleague in the Ottawa area. So we
consider all of those league's partners.I think, much like you just asked
(14:15):
us about the NHL, and ifwe get involved, I would say the
same thing from a college hockey standpointto the BHL and the HAHL and their
member teams is they need to dowhat they feel is best for them and
just make sure that they're not doingmaking any changes that might pose eligibility conflicts
(14:35):
for their players. The big thingthere is making sure that their players are
doing what they need to do academicallyso that they remain academically eligible if they
get an opportunity to play in cahockey. So certainly have been following it,
and we're good partners with both theBHL and the AGHL, and when
(14:56):
we're in those two provinces, bothsupport our events, and really it came
to our events, he'd probably thinkthey were co hosted by college hockey ink
And then you know in Alberta bythe AGHL and in British Columbia by the
BHL. So clearly a young youngman in this case that wants to play
NCAA hockey if he's from Alberta it'salmost certain he'll play in the AGHL.
(15:18):
He's from British Columbia. It's almostcertain he'll playing in the BHL. Michael
switch switch topics here a little bit, and we appreciate your input that you
gave us on all of that.But some great news obviously that came out
of College Hockey Inc. In thepast six months, and it was the
fact that all the work you've donefor men's Division one ice hockey, you're
(15:41):
now going to continue to that efforton the women's side. And I got
to meet Sadie long Quist, whois the director of women's hockey for College
Hockey Inc. Your newest hire.I got to meet her at the bean
Pot a couple of weeks ago.Seems excited to get a lot of stuff
going, but what was the Butit's behind that and how do you see
(16:02):
this playing out over time? Theirrole probably a little bit different on the
women's side than it's had to beon the men's side. It is in
first off, we're excited that we'reable to add that role, and then
to have the person that we foundand that raised your hand for it to
be sadiel on Quist. She's impressingeverybody, and we're ecstatic to have her
(16:22):
part of our small staff. Butback to the beginning, when College Hockey
was formed, it really was withone purpose, and that was to help
young players know what they needed todo to remain eligible to play college hockey,
and along with that, excite themabout college hockey and what made college
hockey so special. And I wasfourteen years ago, but as we evolved,
(16:44):
we added what I would call internally, we call ourselves the PR Department
for College Hockey. All of youknow, Nate Ewle, who was with
us for a long time, hadreally laid the foundation for that about Jason
Hashkey has taken to the time fromNate a few years back, and we
haven't missed a beat when it comesto just promoting and growing college hockey in
terms of the awareness for celebrating thesport and so on. So we added
(17:07):
that aspect pretty quickly after we wereformed. And then we also a few
years after we reformed, decided totake upon ourselves to be the organization that
would try to initiate or pursue thegrowth of college hockey and had a pretty
fun project right away that I think, you know, you look back on
(17:30):
us sometimes you just can't believe ithappened, But that was Arizona State,
and then that really motivated all ofus to do more of that growth initiative.
And then along the way, atsome point we just said, you
know, we could be doing alot of these aspects for young girls and
young women, even though they don'thave the same eligibility consequences that a young
(17:51):
boy. You know, a fourteenor fifteen year old boy might be facing
fourteen or fifteen year old girl regardlessof where she's from, she's eligible hockey,
even if she doesn't know it,or even if she doesn't even know
what NCAA hockey is yet. Sothe need was different. But we discovered
that there was a need and anopportunity to also contribute and help grow women's
(18:14):
college hockey. So back to theNHL and their tremendous support. We wouldn't
be here if not for their initialgrant. We approached them about increasing our
partnership, having them increase their financialgrant so that we could add a fourth
full time staff member that could besolely focused on women's college hockey, and
that was a few years ago,and they they said yes, with their
(18:37):
full support and then we were ableto hire Sadie, and I have to
say the amount of people that respondedto our job posting for that role it's
called the director of women's college Hockeywas overwhelming, which really reinforced to us
that I think grona something. Ithink there's a lot of really quality people
out there that can see the visionand the impact for what this role could
(19:00):
meet to women's college hockey. Soit was a very tough decision. A
number of people highly qualified and clearlyenthusiastic for it, but Sadie set herself
apart, and now she's three anda half weeks in and she's absolutely wonderful,
had it and already making an impact. In last week when we saw
(19:21):
you at the Men's bean Pot inBoston, we followed that up with a
visit with about eight different eight coachingstaffs in the New England area. Also
checked out a game at Sacred Heart, and she's off and running. So
we're excited to have her. We'reexcited that it's on heels of Delaware announcing
that they'd be adding NCAA Division Oneof women's hockey, the first NCAA hockey
(19:42):
in the state of Delaware and hopeto build off of that momentum and can't
wait to see what Sadie contributes.You just mentioned Delaware, and obviously that
is expansion. I know that youhave to say stay somewhat tight lift about
maybe the parties involved. But doyou see more expansion either on the men's
(20:03):
or the women's side in the comingmonths or years And you know, if
so, what kind of timelines mightyou expect? Uh, we do.
I'm very optimistic on them. I'mprobably more optimistic on growth now that I
have been, especially with Sadie onboard and putting some extra focus on women's
college hockey, perhaps even Division threewomen's college hockey. But you know,
(20:27):
the growth piece, the little momentshappen where we get invigor I mean not
that we lose our excitement or enthusiasmfor it, but but something happens and
you're like, that's why we're doingthis. And this past weekend, if
you had a chance to see someof the videos from the sweep at mid
(20:48):
Co Arena or Augustana, and youthink, you fan. They just opened
that building a couple of weeks agoand it's spectacular, And I watched that
crowd in that student section. Playersgo right to that student section when they
want an overtime, and that's that'swhy we're doing this. And right there
there's there's some people there falling inlove with hockey in that student section that
(21:11):
if Augustan had not added hockey,they might never experience it, they might
never become a hockey fan, theymight never get their kids involved in hockey,
they might not choose to be onthe board of a youth hockey association
or something. And so you sawthat, and when they opened a couple
of weeks ago, and then nowthis weekend and the special games that they
had this past weekend, and that'sthat's what keeps us going. And I
(21:32):
think also that's what serves other schoolswhen they look at that and say,
maybe we should consider that. Andthat's that's why Augustana moved forward a few
years ago with what they did,and now they've brought it to light.
Prior to them, it was ArizonaState. Now they've brought it to LFE
with their spectacular building. And then, as I just just set a few
minutes ago, Sadie and I wentto a women's game at Sacred Art at
(21:53):
their new arena and that have youhave either of you been to that yet
that building? No, not yetyet. Well, I had high expectations
based on what everybody was telling me, so I really went there with the
thought that there's no way this couldexceed my expectations. And it's beautiful.
It is. It is just sucha stunning building. And so every time,
(22:17):
every time that happens, that justgrows our sport a little bit more.
So. We are working with otherschools. We had a feasibility studied
recently coming to a conclusion, andthen we've got two right now. There
are different points of being prepared,so I think there's a strong momentum for
(22:38):
it now. I say all thatI'm also a realist. I'm in sports.
Hockey is an expensive sport. You'renot just restripe being an existing field.
You're if you don't have a facility, you're building an expensive facility.
Augustana's facility was I can't recall exactlywhat it was, but I mean it
was sixty million, give or taketen millions. You know, either way
(23:00):
you slice it, it's a lotof money. So I understand the very
real hurdles to trying to grow asport like hockey, but it's definitely worth
the effort, and I think ourefforts have paid off in a few examples,
and I'm betting that they'll continue tobe off moving forward. Well,
(23:22):
Mike, we really appreciate you notjust joining us kind of last minute.
Won't lie to anybody. This weekwas sided up in less than twenty four
hours, so we appreciate you notjust joining us kind of on a lost
minute basis, but being so candidabout what you know about these key topics
that are affecting college hockey. Andwe will get to catch up with you
(23:44):
again. Saint Paul. We loveheading out there, so we can't wait
to see you out there during theFrozen four. But thanks so much for
your time this morning. I appreciateit, And if I can, I
always try to do this before atthe conclusion, because we don't talk about
this as much as we probably should. But the women and men that play
college hockey, they absolutely do thejob in the classroom. So for if
(24:06):
anything that we discussed that might becontroversial or unknown or whatever, what is
certain is in the classroom. Theyare absolutely student athletes. Ninety two percent
of them that play a Vision onehockey graduate. Ninety seven percent of women
that played the visual hockey graduate,So it's really a privilege for all of
us at college hockey to work ontheir behalf and represent the sport that's college
(24:32):
hockey, think executive director Mike sneeJim. As we listen to Mike's discussion
and also talk to other people aroundthis, it seems like this is less
a movement to make something happen thanto be ready for something to happen.
And old baseball fans will remember thename Kurt Flood and how he broke things
(24:52):
open for free agency in baseball.It sounds like it might take a player
or a family to maybe have alaw suit in the light of name,
image and likeness and eligibility as anamateur to kind of break this whole thing
open. I agree with you there. I didn't get into that with with
Mike. That's not really what hisjob is in the world of college hockey
(25:18):
to think about legislation and litigation.But I do think that you're probably going
to get to that point we've seenin other sports. All it takes is
a lawsuit and things start moving.All that said is I think that even
if there was a lawsuit, whichthere are none on the table. Nobody
has filed any lawsuits yet. Andyou know, and you hear people say,
(25:41):
well, as soon as you getone, everything will change. Well,
don't be so fast thinking that.There's so many complications. I brought
up the NHL and how their impactof you know, being able to place
contracted players back into the junior hockeyleagues. That is something that you don't
see another sports. That that alonewould have to be addressed, and it
(26:03):
could be changed very quickly by allowingthose same players to play in the American
Hockey League instead of sending them backto major junior. That's one issue that
comes along with it. And theother is you know, maybe it happens,
but I don't think it happens tomorrowor next year. You get a
lawsuit and you're going to get itwill get tied up in courts. It
(26:26):
might move quicker than you think,but it might not. And this thing,
honestly, when you really look atthe timing of what it'll take to
change something like this legislation and allowsCHL players to play in college after they've
played major junior, that could takefive years at least. So I know,
(26:48):
everybody thinks it's imminent that it's goingto happen next year. And if
you're a sixteen year old going tomajor junior this year, I don't really
plan on playing college hockey. Idon't see that happening every anytime very soon.
But you're right, the litigious natureof our society would say that some
family, some parent will just decideto file a lawsuit and then things probably
(27:14):
start accelerating on the pace that theygo. But you're right. I think
this is preparation at This is needingto be prepared, and I feel like
that is one thing that for themost part, college hockey has always been
pretty good at. They've they've alwaystried to think one step or at least
a half step ahead. Maybe thereare things that come up quickly, like
(27:34):
the transfer portal like nil that reallymoved quicker than a lot of people saw
coming, and you weren't able toprepare as well for it. But I
think that this is an issue thatthe college hockey body as a whole will
be prepared for when it finally doesarise. And I think it's very important
(27:56):
for us to reiterate that some ofthe rumors that have been going around are
simply not true or have been inflated. And on the other hand, it's
not the case that nothing is goingon. There are no negotiations between the
CHL and the NCAA. There's noplace, there's no formula for that to
(28:18):
happen. There hasn't been formal discussionamong leagues, although we're told that there's
been some informal discussion and maybe somestraw polling. This is not on the
agenda to make a decision on inNaples, may not even be on the
agenda yet. It's still three monthsout, so a lot of what you've
read, maybe all of what you'veread out there, no, I'll dial
(28:41):
that back, not all. Mostof what you've read out there is conjecture
and rumor mongering, and things aregoing at a much slower pace than it
sounds like. As you said,in our modern society, that's become almost
a norm. One person reads headline, not the whole story, a headline,
and suddenly their opinion means everything,and that's that. And suddenly everybody's
(29:07):
starting to create opinions on a topicthat they haven't studied and know nothing about.
And I'll admit it myself, Ihaven't studied this deeply. I've had
conversations with people. I probably learnedmore in the last twenty five minutes with
Mike Sneath, and I even knewabout everything that's associated with this potential change
(29:27):
for college hockey. So I thinkthat you say it right there, and
do you have to kind of cautionagainst getting into the rumors and rumor mongering
that's out there and just wait letthings play out. Then we'll see what
really happens, and we'll probably havebetter reasoning and we might actually have people
(29:48):
address things much more directly other thantrying to backdoor everything through their own opinions,
through their own set of factual factsthat are not factual, and at
some point, well, well we'llwe'll watch the process on folds and understand
things a lot better. Well,we do appreciate Mike Sneeze time on this
(30:11):
episode of US Echo Spotlight, andagain we salute all the great work that
College Hockey, Inc. Does forboth men's and women's hockey. This podcast
is sponsored by the NCAA Men's Division. One Frozen four April eleventh and thirteenth
at Excel Energy Center in Saint Paul, Minnesota. Visit NCAA dot com slash
m frozen four to get your ticketstoday for Jim Connolly. I'm Ed Trefsker
(30:34):
and this has been us Cho Spotlight
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