December 3, 2025 • 25 mins
Hosts Jim Connelly (@jimmyconnelly), Derek Schooley (@derekschooley), and Ed Trefzger (@EdTrefzger) look at sometimes controversial or overlooked topics in our midweek episode called Upon Further Review.
This time we play "buy or sell" on eight propositions:
Find all of our podcasts at USCHO.com/podcasts
This time we play "buy or sell" on eight propositions:
- Michigan is the best team in college hockey.
- This year’s Hobey Baker winner currently plays for Minnesota Duluth.
- Western Michigan will return to this season's Frozen Four in Las Vegas.
- Hockey East will be a two-or-less bid conference this season.
- Dartmouth will be the ECAC regular-season champion
- Either the CCHA or AHA will be a multi-bid conference this season (at least one at large NCAA team)
- A blue-chip player will leave college hockey at the break.
- The Tim Taylor Award for National Rookie of the Year will go to a former CHL player.
Find all of our podcasts at USCHO.com/podcasts
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Usccho dot com.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Welcome to a pawn further review for Wednesday, December third,
twenty twenty five. I'm ed Trefsker alongside Jim Connolly and
Derek Schooley. This episode is sponsored by the NCAA Division one.
Men's Frozen four April ninth and eleventh in Las Vegas.
Get your tickets at NCAA dot com slash m Frozen four. Well, gentlemen,
(00:38):
we're going to do something we've been wanting to do
for a while. We always have fun with these, and
that is buy or sell, And we have eight propositions
for us. If you agree, you say bye. If you
disagree with you say sell. If you want to worm
your way out of it, you might try to say hold,
and we'll see if we let you are not.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
Uh so I'm.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
We always say that and then there's always like, but
we won't allow it.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
So, uh, we're gonna start calling Derek.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
There you go, he had high seller hedge and we're good.
So I'll read the proposition and we each say whether
we buy or sell. If it had been a couple
of weeks ago, we might have said Michigan State, but
right now number one is Michigan do you buy or sell?
Michigan is the best team in college hockey.
Speaker 4 (01:31):
I've seen him in person, I've watched him. I was
I was.
Speaker 5 (01:34):
I was a buyer from the first game that my
team played. I thought that they had uh the head,
the top offense that I've seen in a while, and
I thought they finally had a goalie. The only thing
that scares me is the injury on the blue line
that they had. Potentially that could end up hurting them
eventually because I was a top other top d so,
(01:58):
but it hasn't seemed to stop their offenses rolling until
somebody can stop them from scoring under nine goals on
a weekend.
Speaker 4 (02:07):
Yes, they are the best in the land. Buye.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
Yeah, this might be the easiest buy. But the interesting
thing I say, it's an easy buying. A couple of
weeks ago, Michigan State might have been an easy buy.
Right now, Michigan is unstoppable. And you mentioned Henry Muse
on the blue line. That's a big loss for them,
but they don't seem to be any worse for the wear.
(02:31):
I mean, we mentioned it on Monday. They had a
down weekend. This past weekend, only scored nine goals against Harvard.
I mean, they're supposed to score eleven a weekend. Right now,
they're almost five and a half goals in game. This
is an offense that's clicking. Their goaltending strong, their power
play is unstoppable. I just like everything about this Michigan team.
(02:52):
I have no reservations about them right now.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
Yeah, I'm going to buy in. Are they going to
be the best team at the end of the season.
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
There have been some disappointments along the way the last
couple of seasons. But I think I've got to buy
here too, for the reasons you guys said. Next one,
this year's Hoby Baker winner currently plays for Minnesota Duluth.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
I'll start here. I'll sell on this one. There's plenty
of talent there, and the plant brothers are fantastic Shaga
Bay that's probably the best line in college hockey. But
I say, but look at Michigan right now, and Will
Workov's line is you know, I think they have He
(03:36):
has twenty six or so points right now, right up
there with planned. I mean, the numbers right now are
showing out that that line is going to certainly get
plenty of recognition from Duluth when it comes to HOBI voting.
But I think at the end, there's just too many
other players out there. I'd have to sell on this one.
Speaker 4 (03:57):
I'm gonna sell too. I'm gonna feel this so big.
Speaker 5 (04:01):
You got Hagg, you got Horcraft, you got Hues, You've
got Chemick, You've got Cerdie, and you've got a couple
of goalies, the goalies that we talked about. With the
numbers of Dartmouth, even though they're going to split the vote,
I mean, you can go down the list. The field
is too big right now. So I'm going to sell, Yeah,
cal Couds and go down the list.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Yeah, I got to sell also because there are just
so many out there now. If the question was will
one or more HOBE finalists be from Minnesota d Luth,
than I would buy that one. But they're just too many.
And you know, I'm no longer on the voting committee
because it's a three year term, but I know how
the discussions go, and there's so much that gets weighed
(04:43):
in this that Yeah, yeah, this would be like buying
referencing our Friday Edge podcast, this would be like buying
a NCAA championship future. I mean that the odds are
pretty pretty long in that and so if you you know,
if we were doing that on the money side, that's
(05:04):
that might be one that you'd say, well.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
I'll go for a flyer there. But I agree selling that.
Speaker 5 (05:10):
Way, Jimmy always makes the point is that everybody steals
their votes when you have multiple from one team. But
you got multiple from you got multi Michigan, you got
multiple from I mean, you got Michigan State, you got
guys from. But there really isn't just I mean, there's
just so many good candidates. So like I said, you're
(05:33):
I mean, there's just too many right now. For me,
it's to buy on that right now.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
They're just I'm not so sure.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
Yeah, go ahead, jim I think that Derek's point about
splitting the vote is there. We've seen that in recent
years Boston College, they've had multiple candidates and they split
some votes. But if you're that good, you do tend
to stand above. You know, last year in Michigan State
they were able to, you know, really make a great case,
(06:03):
and I think they sold a Hobe Baker to the
voters when all was said and done. I think they
did a good job of marketing it. So that's another
part of it, is what you do as a school.
I think also sometimes can decide. So if we get
to the luth here, maybe in March or February, they're
starting to figure out who are we going to campaign for.
Maybe that's where they say, Okay, we're just going to
(06:24):
take X player from that line. That's who we're going
to put all of our effort behind. It's hard to do.
Speaker 5 (06:30):
Though, that's very very winning difficulty that we got to
keep winning too.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
What he helps And you know, when it comes down
to me, when I'm looking at a team with more
than one candidate, what I've done is say, okay, who
is the better of the two or the best of
the three, and who who would I then vote for?
And so I don't know how much is a split
or how much I'm sure there's a split, but the
(06:55):
split is probably more in what the voters think is
the better player. Next one, Derek Sorry, Western Michigan will
return to the season's Frozen four in Las Vegas.
Speaker 5 (07:08):
This is my hole because I'm not going against my
alma mater. But it's gonna be awful hard. So I'm
not I'm not I'm not buying I'm not selling, but
we've always said how hard it is. They went back
to back championship, Now hard it is to go to
back to back. Frozen Fors they had a little bit
of a down, but I think they're starting to write
(07:30):
the ship a little bit. I'm I'm in the I'm
not gonna I'm not taking a stance. I'm not gonna
take a stance. I'm gonna hold, I'm gonna edge, I'm
gonna whatever you want, I'm gonna waffle.
Speaker 4 (07:42):
I'm just gonna say.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
It's awful hard to go back to back. Derek to Hedge,
Derek to Hedge, that's so, that's your new nickname, Derek
the Hedge. I'm gonna sell here, and it's not anything
to be disrespectful to to Western. I've seen them in
person this year. They're an excellent team. It's really hard
to get back there, though. They're starting to put themselves
(08:05):
in better position. Know, a few weeks ago, they weren't
even in the right side of the the NPI bubble,
if you will. They're at least inside that top. I
think they're eleventh right now, so they're right there in
the NPI mix. But it's hard it's really hard to
get back to frozen fours. You're right, Derek, and so
I just respectfully, I just have to sell on this one.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Yeah, I got to sell also, just because so many
teams are up there right now. There are teams that
seem to have made enough of a step forward. We
talked about Michigan already. We talked about Michigan on Monday.
It's going to be hard to get through to that.
But this isn't to say that they can't get there.
That's if you had to pick one or the other,
(08:48):
which we have to. So I'm going to sell on
that one the next one before we take our break.
This is a tough one, and that's Hockey East will
be a tour or less bid conference this season. Let
me throw in a couple of things here. In fact,
I'm gonna I'm going to sell on that, but I'm
kind of on the fence on it right now. Only
(09:09):
Northeastern is inside the NPI bubble and the league's non
conference winning percentage is something like five point thirty three,
which is pretty low. It's going to be tough to
get that third one in, but I think somehow they'll
manage to do it. This is a very different situation
for the for Hockey East than the last two three
(09:30):
seasons were. At this time of the year, they looked
like they might get six in. So I'm going to
sell on this one, but I'm not real excited about it.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
I'm going to sell, but I'm gonna I'm kind of
in your boat at I'm worried. I really am Northeastern.
They're the team that's inside right now. But Northeastern is
about to play a really tough road schedule. Their building
is closing on December thirteenth. The rest of their season.
Speaker 4 (09:56):
Will be on the road.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
I still haven't heard how that's a factor into the NPI,
whether they're going to count as neutral site games, road games,
or home games because they're playing some of their home
games on the Roadbal Matthews is under construction, so that's
one I'm concerned about. Then you look at BCBU, Providence,
they're all in the mix. U mass Is kind of
in there, Connecticut's in there, but they're all just in
(10:18):
that area that in the twenties in twenties is really
far away from thirteen to twelve, eleven ten where you
need to get to. So I'm I'm concerned. I'll sell,
but I think that this is one that could be.
Speaker 5 (10:32):
A by mass mass at forty four. You meant Maine
mains in the twenties, Matt, You mass is at four
forty four for me? Yeah, yeah, you guys? Are you guys?
You're voting with you your hockey's paycheck there for your broadcasting.
I'm going to buy that one. I think it's I
think they're going to get one in there, and they're
going to get their their AQ. I don't see a
(10:55):
whole bunch of them, because they're going to start. They're
going to start cannibalizing themselves. They're gonna start, they're gonna
start taking there. They're gonna start eating each other alive.
And their their league, their league is going to be
so challenging because those teams are so good and they
just haven't done what they needed to do so far.
Speaker 4 (11:12):
It's gonna be hard.
Speaker 6 (11:14):
Somebody's gonna have to go on some two teams on
a massive run and do really well, get themselves up
into twelves and make it far in the playoffs, and
somebody's else sneak in there with an eight Q.
Speaker 4 (11:26):
I don't know where it comes from.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
Yeah, you know, and this weekend they didn't do a
lot of favors for themselves. When you think of Thanksgiving,
it's traditionally a pretty strong non conference weekend. One win
out of four on Friday. That's not enough. They've got
to they have to be going out and taking eighty
percent of their non conference games. They didn't come close
to that this weekend. So I think I'm with you.
Maybe I am voting a little bit with which I don't,
(11:50):
but I'm concerned. I'm very concerned.
Speaker 4 (11:54):
I don't blame it.
Speaker 5 (11:55):
I mean, I was always told that you always always
root with your paycheck. Everybody always says, oh you if
you played Western New you know, obviously you root with
your paycheck. Yeah, that's what it is. So yeah, yeah,
here you got you. Yeah, I'm gonna sell on that though.
I'm gonna buy on that. They're only getting too And that's.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
Why it's easier when your paycheck is from your alma mater.
Then you don't have any split, any split loyalties. We're
gonna take a break and come back with more of
this podcast episode is sponsored by the NCAA Men's Division
One Frozen four April ninth and eleventh in Las Vegas.
Speaker 7 (12:36):
Glass today with Walpping Men's ice hockey. Open your textbooks,
join thousands of other screaming fans for an in person experience.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
You have to see the belief.
Speaker 8 (12:46):
It's the NCAA Men's Frozen four April ninth and eleventh
in Las Vegas. Attendance is encouraged, Passion is mandatory. By
your seat today at NCAA dot com slash m Frozen four.
Speaker 4 (12:58):
How many teams are in the Men's Frozen four?
Speaker 1 (13:02):
Please leave?
Speaker 2 (13:06):
We're back with upon further review. And we were talking
earlier in the week about Dartmouth. Dartmouth will be the
ECAC regular season champion by or Sell.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
I'm gonna buy. I think they will, I really do.
I think Quinnipiac is a good team, but they're a
little bit down this year. Cornell maybe the team that
gives them the run. Harvard. I was high on Harvard,
but then they struggled with Michigan a little bit this week. Union.
Maybe Union gives them the run. But I don't see.
(13:40):
I don't have it. I don't have another team in
the ECAC that I am that much in love with.
I love Dartmouth right now, they're playing really good hockey.
I'll buy.
Speaker 4 (13:49):
I'm laughing.
Speaker 5 (13:50):
I'm laughing because for those of you who didn't catch
out earlier, we we did this two weeks ago, and
we had technical difficulties and it didn't get publicized, so
we all didn't we didn't buy on this.
Speaker 4 (14:01):
Two weeks ago.
Speaker 5 (14:03):
Two weeks ago is a lot different than we are
than we're doing now. I'm still going to sell because
I think they I think they get in the tournament,
but I think somebody else beats them in the playoffs.
I think there's just too many good teams right now.
I think ECAC is really an underrated conference right now.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
It's regular season champion schools, not postseason champion. Regular season.
Speaker 5 (14:28):
I still am going to sell. I think they're still
getting the tournament. I'm just going to go against the
go against the grain. I'm selling on this one.
Speaker 3 (14:35):
I'm going to buy on this one.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
Although it's taken a lot of points to win the
regular season in the ECAC right now, twelve points for Dartmouth.
They've got eighteen games left. Eighteen games left, so that's
possible fifty four points. Say they go fourteen out of those,
(14:57):
they could get to fifty so and four not out
of the realm of possibility. And I think the reason
is something we talked about on Monday. They've got a
goaltending tandem. And when you have two goalies that you
can depend on to put up the numbers they have,
you feel very confident with that backstopping your team. So
(15:19):
I'm going to buy on this one. Maybe maybe a
little in the.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
Defense isn't allowing a lot to That's the other thing
good goaltending. Their defense doesn't give up a lot of chances.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
Yeah, so maybe it's a little pie in the sky,
but it would be nice to see a different team
on top of the regular season, no offense on the
team that has won it several years in a row.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
Well, let's go to the next one, and.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
This is either the CCHA or Atlantic Hockey will be
a multi bid league this year. One or the other
would get two bids in buy or sell.
Speaker 3 (15:55):
Would you want to go on this one?
Speaker 1 (15:56):
Schools, I'll let you go first.
Speaker 4 (15:57):
Maybe I'm going to have to I'm gonna have to sell.
We're both there, We're both going to be one bid
leagues to where it is right now.
Speaker 5 (16:05):
Unfortunately, Yeah, I just don't I don't see any any
road to it unless unless Minnesota State keeps doing what
they're doing and a team like be Midgie or Michigan
Tech can win, and Michigan and Minnesota State has done
enough to put themselves in the top.
Speaker 4 (16:27):
That's that's the way I see it.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
Yeah, that's my one path. I I'll sell. But if
I were to buy on this, my one path would
be Minnesota State, and I will I'll go on the
recording to say that, right, so you get one team
that pulls off the upset, but I'll go on the
record and say that if the CCH gets two in
or if Atlantic Cockey for some reason gets too, and
(16:50):
I'll stick with the c because I think they have
the better chance. If the CCHA gets two in, that's
what will take hockey's third bit away. That will be
what takes it away. Yeah, I'm going to sell on
this one.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
I'm with you on Minnesota State being the most likely,
but it's also possible for one of the top teams
in Atlanta Hockey. And I think if I'm picking top
teams right now, the ones I see is having the
better chance of doing that right now, or Holy Cross
and Bentley, but throw Sacred Heart in there too.
Speaker 3 (17:22):
If one of those goes on a real.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
Tear in the league so that they can move up
to like the top ten in the NPI, which is
a possibility if you have only a few lost points,
then maybe getting to the championship game and losing will
still get you in. But I think it's harder this year.
And as I've said right along, I think one of
the things that makes it harder is allowing sub five
(17:46):
hundred teams in. So a fifth or sixth place team
from the NCCHC or a fifth place team in Big
ten could squeak in even sub five hundred, So it's
really difficult.
Speaker 3 (17:58):
So I'm going to sell on that one.
Speaker 5 (17:59):
Or non conference left though, here's what I'll give you
a La Cross.
Speaker 4 (18:03):
I said, is there enough to be conference left on
Holy Cross?
Speaker 1 (18:07):
But yeah, they only have one game left and it's
against Merrimack. It almost becomes a must win non conference game.
They're twenty three right now in the NPI. If they
go on a run in Atlanta Cockey, they're really just
not going to have a lot.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
Of room for our Yeah, although there probably will be
some games in the win column for them that will
come off of their schedule because they hurt them for
the MPI purposes.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
So well, I'm not sure that that's going to be
enough to move no, but if you have, like a
say you have an eight hundred winning percentage, that may
be enough to get you up there.
Speaker 3 (18:44):
We'll see, We'll see how that goes.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
That's the only way I can see it happening in
either one of those leagues. Somebody has got to dominate
the league and then lose in the championship game and
hope it doesn't drop into like fifteen or sixteen. We
got two more for this episode. A blue chip player
will leave college hockey at the break by or sell bye.
Speaker 5 (19:08):
There will be somebody who leaves because of academics, not
playing enough something. And it happens every year. So I
just think everybody's making a big deal to CHL. Somebody's
going to go back somebody. But it happens with USHL kids,
it happens with development kids. It happened at Michigan last
year at the Humphreys kidd he went back to it
(19:30):
went to the OHL. I mean, it just happened. So
I don't think there's any difference this year to last
year to the year before. Somebody will leave because of something.
So yes, define blue chip to me as well. I
think because you're leaving because of lack of playing time?
(19:51):
Are you really a blue chip? Are you just unhappy
with your rule? So is Gavin McKenna going to leave
it Christmas? O? Is Porter Mateau that will leave in Christmas? No,
So it's obviously somebody that wasn't in somebody's clients or
their immediate plans.
Speaker 4 (20:11):
And it's a futures Like you said.
Speaker 5 (20:14):
Earlier, you're you're whole, you're buying for the futures, and
they want something immediate.
Speaker 3 (20:18):
I think the more yeah, I think, Sorry, go ahead, Sorry, I.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
Was going to say, I think the more fun thing
to look at is recruits who may de commit some
blue chip deep commits in that level. Maybe uh, maybe
somebody's committed to a lower program and has an opportunity
to hire one, or maybe a higher program has room
for somebody good and ends up letting somebody go. And
(20:43):
I think that's going to be interesting to watch. Not
exactly the same thing, but we're going to see some
of that movement happening.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
We already are.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
Yeah, you know, And to School's point, I think, you know,
if we can define what a blue chip player? Is
that that really kind of really does dictate the argument here.
I think you'll see you'll see a couple of players
maybe leave. I don't know that we'll call them blue
chip players though. So that's where I guess I get
a little cautious here. So you know, I'll buy on
(21:13):
it that you're going to have somebody leave. I don't
know how big of a name.
Speaker 4 (21:16):
It's going to be.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
Where do you draw the line? I mean, for a recruit,
is it a top ten birth year, a top twenty
birth year? And for a player, how do you agur it?
So I guess I guess we got to de next
time we.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
Do this, we'll define whatever you wrote it.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
So I did, and I've written it twice now and
I so didn't change the wording on it.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
So a really really really good player will leave college
hockey at the break, Yeah, I think that's a bye.
Last one, the Tim Taylor Award for National Rookie of
the Year will go to a former CHL player. I'll
buy that one and let you guys sort it out
from here.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
Yeah, all one hundred percent by basically just looking at
the current stats. When I look at rookies right now
you're talking about most of the top rookies are going
to are coming out of the CHL. Vaklab Nestrasil might
be the one out liar there at UMass. Everybody else
that I look at in the top five of scoring,
(22:13):
they're all CHL players, So I think, yeah, it's more
than likely you're going to get a really high end
name out of the CHL. Will it be Gavin McKenna,
that's my only question. You know, he's got so much
name recognition, but there's another there's a lot of other
rookies that are putting out the big numbers, so you
might see it's not Gavin McKenna, But I think it's
(22:35):
going to be a CHL player.
Speaker 5 (22:36):
Yeah, you know what a couple of weeks ago said,
I was one hundred percent by after watching a couple
of games, I wouldn't go so far. I mean, Ethan
Wittenbach from Quinnipiac played for Sue Falls in the USHL.
I mean, he's had a really good year. He's leading
the leading point guy right now and all rookie scorers.
(22:57):
But then after that you got Porter Matoni. He's not
witten Box not getting the pr that matone and McKenna
and all the other guys are getting Pourrier and Valentini
and all that.
Speaker 4 (23:11):
But.
Speaker 5 (23:13):
There's still other guys out there. But twenty two points.
McKenna's got eighteen points. He's got a USHL kid ahead
of them, same age, same birth year.
Speaker 4 (23:23):
But this kid, Whitenback, is drafted so one year older.
I don't know.
Speaker 5 (23:27):
It's not the not the one hundred and plus points
that people were expecting.
Speaker 4 (23:34):
That's for sure, so I guess I will buy.
Speaker 5 (23:37):
But the field, there's still some people out in the
field that could could take that.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
I forgot about winding box too. That was when I
left off. I should have had that one as well,
So I guess it's it's It's maybe not a guarantee
that we're going to see it, but I feel like
there's enough players in the top ten of scoring rookies
that is probably going to go.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
HL last question on this before we wrap up, what
about the effect of having gone and played in the
World Juniors. We've seen players come back from that and
really go on a tier.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
I'd like to see what players come back and what
that translates to this year. If a player can just
pick up some steam in that tournament. You know, then
you might see something like that. You might see a
rookie come back and can really dominate college hockey in
the second half. But I'm interested to see what World
Juniors becomes too. We're seeing the cross section of players
(24:31):
that are still in the CHL. You got the European
players that we don't know a ton about. I'm really
interested in this year's World Junior team. I don't think
in terms of the US that it's as strong as
the last couple of teams have been, so I think
this is a wide opening world too.
Speaker 5 (24:43):
They announced the US plimentary roster on Monday. It littered
with top to bottom lots of college guys. Michigan led
the way with six, six potential Wolverines on the team.
I see goaltending, goaltending, goaltending, goaltending.
Speaker 4 (25:03):
US has got to have a goalie could stop a pock. Yeah,
that's the issue.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
That's their issue right now.
Speaker 4 (25:10):
That's for sure.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
Well with that will wrap up here. This has been
upon further review. We're sponsored by the NCAA Men's Division
one Frozen four That is April ninth and eleventh in
Las Vegas. Visit NCAA dot com slash m Frozen four
for tickets. Also, you can watch this and like and
(25:33):
subscribe on YouTube at YouTube dot com. Slash us c
h O for Jim Connelly for Derek Scooley. I'm Ed
Trevsker and this has been upon further review
Usccho dot com.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Welcome to a pawn further review for Wednesday, December third,
twenty twenty five. I'm ed Trefsker alongside Jim Connolly and
Derek Schooley. This episode is sponsored by the NCAA Division one.
Men's Frozen four April ninth and eleventh in Las Vegas.
Get your tickets at NCAA dot com slash m Frozen four. Well, gentlemen,
(00:38):
we're going to do something we've been wanting to do
for a while. We always have fun with these, and
that is buy or sell, And we have eight propositions
for us. If you agree, you say bye. If you
disagree with you say sell. If you want to worm
your way out of it, you might try to say hold,
and we'll see if we let you are not.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
Uh so I'm.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
We always say that and then there's always like, but
we won't allow it.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
So, uh, we're gonna start calling Derek.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
There you go, he had high seller hedge and we're good.
So I'll read the proposition and we each say whether
we buy or sell. If it had been a couple
of weeks ago, we might have said Michigan State, but
right now number one is Michigan do you buy or sell?
Michigan is the best team in college hockey.
Speaker 4 (01:31):
I've seen him in person, I've watched him. I was
I was.
Speaker 5 (01:34):
I was a buyer from the first game that my
team played. I thought that they had uh the head,
the top offense that I've seen in a while, and
I thought they finally had a goalie. The only thing
that scares me is the injury on the blue line
that they had. Potentially that could end up hurting them
eventually because I was a top other top d so,
(01:58):
but it hasn't seemed to stop their offenses rolling until
somebody can stop them from scoring under nine goals on
a weekend.
Speaker 4 (02:07):
Yes, they are the best in the land. Buye.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
Yeah, this might be the easiest buy. But the interesting
thing I say, it's an easy buying. A couple of
weeks ago, Michigan State might have been an easy buy.
Right now, Michigan is unstoppable. And you mentioned Henry Muse
on the blue line. That's a big loss for them,
but they don't seem to be any worse for the wear.
(02:31):
I mean, we mentioned it on Monday. They had a
down weekend. This past weekend, only scored nine goals against Harvard.
I mean, they're supposed to score eleven a weekend. Right now,
they're almost five and a half goals in game. This
is an offense that's clicking. Their goaltending strong, their power
play is unstoppable. I just like everything about this Michigan team.
(02:52):
I have no reservations about them right now.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
Yeah, I'm going to buy in. Are they going to
be the best team at the end of the season.
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
There have been some disappointments along the way the last
couple of seasons. But I think I've got to buy
here too, for the reasons you guys said. Next one,
this year's Hoby Baker winner currently plays for Minnesota Duluth.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
I'll start here. I'll sell on this one. There's plenty
of talent there, and the plant brothers are fantastic Shaga
Bay that's probably the best line in college hockey. But
I say, but look at Michigan right now, and Will
Workov's line is you know, I think they have He
(03:36):
has twenty six or so points right now, right up
there with planned. I mean, the numbers right now are
showing out that that line is going to certainly get
plenty of recognition from Duluth when it comes to HOBI voting.
But I think at the end, there's just too many
other players out there. I'd have to sell on this one.
Speaker 4 (03:57):
I'm gonna sell too. I'm gonna feel this so big.
Speaker 5 (04:01):
You got Hagg, you got Horcraft, you got Hues, You've
got Chemick, You've got Cerdie, and you've got a couple
of goalies, the goalies that we talked about. With the
numbers of Dartmouth, even though they're going to split the vote,
I mean, you can go down the list. The field
is too big right now. So I'm going to sell, Yeah,
cal Couds and go down the list.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Yeah, I got to sell also because there are just
so many out there now. If the question was will
one or more HOBE finalists be from Minnesota d Luth,
than I would buy that one. But they're just too many.
And you know, I'm no longer on the voting committee
because it's a three year term, but I know how
the discussions go, and there's so much that gets weighed
(04:43):
in this that Yeah, yeah, this would be like buying
referencing our Friday Edge podcast, this would be like buying
a NCAA championship future. I mean that the odds are
pretty pretty long in that and so if you you know,
if we were doing that on the money side, that's
(05:04):
that might be one that you'd say, well.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
I'll go for a flyer there. But I agree selling that.
Speaker 5 (05:10):
Way, Jimmy always makes the point is that everybody steals
their votes when you have multiple from one team. But
you got multiple from you got multi Michigan, you got
multiple from I mean, you got Michigan State, you got
guys from. But there really isn't just I mean, there's
just so many good candidates. So like I said, you're
(05:33):
I mean, there's just too many right now. For me,
it's to buy on that right now.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
They're just I'm not so sure.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
Yeah, go ahead, jim I think that Derek's point about
splitting the vote is there. We've seen that in recent
years Boston College, they've had multiple candidates and they split
some votes. But if you're that good, you do tend
to stand above. You know, last year in Michigan State
they were able to, you know, really make a great case,
(06:03):
and I think they sold a Hobe Baker to the
voters when all was said and done. I think they
did a good job of marketing it. So that's another
part of it, is what you do as a school.
I think also sometimes can decide. So if we get
to the luth here, maybe in March or February, they're
starting to figure out who are we going to campaign for.
Maybe that's where they say, Okay, we're just going to
(06:24):
take X player from that line. That's who we're going
to put all of our effort behind. It's hard to do.
Speaker 5 (06:30):
Though, that's very very winning difficulty that we got to
keep winning too.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
What he helps And you know, when it comes down
to me, when I'm looking at a team with more
than one candidate, what I've done is say, okay, who
is the better of the two or the best of
the three, and who who would I then vote for?
And so I don't know how much is a split
or how much I'm sure there's a split, but the
(06:55):
split is probably more in what the voters think is
the better player. Next one, Derek Sorry, Western Michigan will
return to the season's Frozen four in Las Vegas.
Speaker 5 (07:08):
This is my hole because I'm not going against my
alma mater. But it's gonna be awful hard. So I'm
not I'm not I'm not buying I'm not selling, but
we've always said how hard it is. They went back
to back championship, Now hard it is to go to
back to back. Frozen Fors they had a little bit
of a down, but I think they're starting to write
(07:30):
the ship a little bit. I'm I'm in the I'm
not gonna I'm not taking a stance. I'm not gonna
take a stance. I'm gonna hold, I'm gonna edge, I'm
gonna whatever you want, I'm gonna waffle.
Speaker 4 (07:42):
I'm just gonna say.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
It's awful hard to go back to back. Derek to Hedge,
Derek to Hedge, that's so, that's your new nickname, Derek
the Hedge. I'm gonna sell here, and it's not anything
to be disrespectful to to Western. I've seen them in
person this year. They're an excellent team. It's really hard
to get back there, though. They're starting to put themselves
(08:05):
in better position. Know, a few weeks ago, they weren't
even in the right side of the the NPI bubble,
if you will. They're at least inside that top. I
think they're eleventh right now, so they're right there in
the NPI mix. But it's hard it's really hard to
get back to frozen fours. You're right, Derek, and so
I just respectfully, I just have to sell on this one.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Yeah, I got to sell also, just because so many
teams are up there right now. There are teams that
seem to have made enough of a step forward. We
talked about Michigan already. We talked about Michigan on Monday.
It's going to be hard to get through to that.
But this isn't to say that they can't get there.
That's if you had to pick one or the other,
(08:48):
which we have to. So I'm going to sell on
that one the next one before we take our break.
This is a tough one, and that's Hockey East will
be a tour or less bid conference this season. Let
me throw in a couple of things here. In fact,
I'm gonna I'm going to sell on that, but I'm
kind of on the fence on it right now. Only
(09:09):
Northeastern is inside the NPI bubble and the league's non
conference winning percentage is something like five point thirty three,
which is pretty low. It's going to be tough to
get that third one in, but I think somehow they'll
manage to do it. This is a very different situation
for the for Hockey East than the last two three
(09:30):
seasons were. At this time of the year, they looked
like they might get six in. So I'm going to
sell on this one, but I'm not real excited about it.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
I'm going to sell, but I'm gonna I'm kind of
in your boat at I'm worried. I really am Northeastern.
They're the team that's inside right now. But Northeastern is
about to play a really tough road schedule. Their building
is closing on December thirteenth. The rest of their season.
Speaker 4 (09:56):
Will be on the road.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
I still haven't heard how that's a factor into the NPI,
whether they're going to count as neutral site games, road games,
or home games because they're playing some of their home
games on the Roadbal Matthews is under construction, so that's
one I'm concerned about. Then you look at BCBU, Providence,
they're all in the mix. U mass Is kind of
in there, Connecticut's in there, but they're all just in
(10:18):
that area that in the twenties in twenties is really
far away from thirteen to twelve, eleven ten where you
need to get to. So I'm I'm concerned. I'll sell,
but I think that this is one that could be.
Speaker 5 (10:32):
A by mass mass at forty four. You meant Maine
mains in the twenties, Matt, You mass is at four
forty four for me? Yeah, yeah, you guys? Are you guys?
You're voting with you your hockey's paycheck there for your broadcasting.
I'm going to buy that one. I think it's I
think they're going to get one in there, and they're
going to get their their AQ. I don't see a
(10:55):
whole bunch of them, because they're going to start. They're
going to start cannibalizing themselves. They're gonna start, they're gonna
start taking there. They're gonna start eating each other alive.
And their their league, their league is going to be
so challenging because those teams are so good and they
just haven't done what they needed to do so far.
Speaker 4 (11:12):
It's gonna be hard.
Speaker 6 (11:14):
Somebody's gonna have to go on some two teams on
a massive run and do really well, get themselves up
into twelves and make it far in the playoffs, and
somebody's else sneak in there with an eight Q.
Speaker 4 (11:26):
I don't know where it comes from.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
Yeah, you know, and this weekend they didn't do a
lot of favors for themselves. When you think of Thanksgiving,
it's traditionally a pretty strong non conference weekend. One win
out of four on Friday. That's not enough. They've got
to they have to be going out and taking eighty
percent of their non conference games. They didn't come close
to that this weekend. So I think I'm with you.
Maybe I am voting a little bit with which I don't,
(11:50):
but I'm concerned. I'm very concerned.
Speaker 4 (11:54):
I don't blame it.
Speaker 5 (11:55):
I mean, I was always told that you always always
root with your paycheck. Everybody always says, oh you if
you played Western New you know, obviously you root with
your paycheck. Yeah, that's what it is. So yeah, yeah,
here you got you. Yeah, I'm gonna sell on that though.
I'm gonna buy on that. They're only getting too And that's.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
Why it's easier when your paycheck is from your alma mater.
Then you don't have any split, any split loyalties. We're
gonna take a break and come back with more of
this podcast episode is sponsored by the NCAA Men's Division
One Frozen four April ninth and eleventh in Las Vegas.
Speaker 7 (12:36):
Glass today with Walpping Men's ice hockey. Open your textbooks,
join thousands of other screaming fans for an in person experience.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
You have to see the belief.
Speaker 8 (12:46):
It's the NCAA Men's Frozen four April ninth and eleventh
in Las Vegas. Attendance is encouraged, Passion is mandatory. By
your seat today at NCAA dot com slash m Frozen four.
Speaker 4 (12:58):
How many teams are in the Men's Frozen four?
Speaker 1 (13:02):
Please leave?
Speaker 2 (13:06):
We're back with upon further review. And we were talking
earlier in the week about Dartmouth. Dartmouth will be the
ECAC regular season champion by or Sell.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
I'm gonna buy. I think they will, I really do.
I think Quinnipiac is a good team, but they're a
little bit down this year. Cornell maybe the team that
gives them the run. Harvard. I was high on Harvard,
but then they struggled with Michigan a little bit this week. Union.
Maybe Union gives them the run. But I don't see.
(13:40):
I don't have it. I don't have another team in
the ECAC that I am that much in love with.
I love Dartmouth right now, they're playing really good hockey.
I'll buy.
Speaker 4 (13:49):
I'm laughing.
Speaker 5 (13:50):
I'm laughing because for those of you who didn't catch
out earlier, we we did this two weeks ago, and
we had technical difficulties and it didn't get publicized, so
we all didn't we didn't buy on this.
Speaker 4 (14:01):
Two weeks ago.
Speaker 5 (14:03):
Two weeks ago is a lot different than we are
than we're doing now. I'm still going to sell because
I think they I think they get in the tournament,
but I think somebody else beats them in the playoffs.
I think there's just too many good teams right now.
I think ECAC is really an underrated conference right now.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
It's regular season champion schools, not postseason champion. Regular season.
Speaker 5 (14:28):
I still am going to sell. I think they're still
getting the tournament. I'm just going to go against the
go against the grain. I'm selling on this one.
Speaker 3 (14:35):
I'm going to buy on this one.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
Although it's taken a lot of points to win the
regular season in the ECAC right now, twelve points for Dartmouth.
They've got eighteen games left. Eighteen games left, so that's
possible fifty four points. Say they go fourteen out of those,
(14:57):
they could get to fifty so and four not out
of the realm of possibility. And I think the reason
is something we talked about on Monday. They've got a
goaltending tandem. And when you have two goalies that you
can depend on to put up the numbers they have,
you feel very confident with that backstopping your team. So
(15:19):
I'm going to buy on this one. Maybe maybe a
little in the.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
Defense isn't allowing a lot to That's the other thing
good goaltending. Their defense doesn't give up a lot of chances.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
Yeah, so maybe it's a little pie in the sky,
but it would be nice to see a different team
on top of the regular season, no offense on the
team that has won it several years in a row.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
Well, let's go to the next one, and.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
This is either the CCHA or Atlantic Hockey will be
a multi bid league this year. One or the other
would get two bids in buy or sell.
Speaker 3 (15:55):
Would you want to go on this one?
Speaker 1 (15:56):
Schools, I'll let you go first.
Speaker 4 (15:57):
Maybe I'm going to have to I'm gonna have to sell.
We're both there, We're both going to be one bid
leagues to where it is right now.
Speaker 5 (16:05):
Unfortunately, Yeah, I just don't I don't see any any
road to it unless unless Minnesota State keeps doing what
they're doing and a team like be Midgie or Michigan
Tech can win, and Michigan and Minnesota State has done
enough to put themselves in the top.
Speaker 4 (16:27):
That's that's the way I see it.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
Yeah, that's my one path. I I'll sell. But if
I were to buy on this, my one path would
be Minnesota State, and I will I'll go on the
recording to say that, right, so you get one team
that pulls off the upset, but I'll go on the
record and say that if the CCH gets two in
or if Atlantic Cockey for some reason gets too, and
(16:50):
I'll stick with the c because I think they have
the better chance. If the CCHA gets two in, that's
what will take hockey's third bit away. That will be
what takes it away. Yeah, I'm going to sell on
this one.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
I'm with you on Minnesota State being the most likely,
but it's also possible for one of the top teams
in Atlanta Hockey. And I think if I'm picking top
teams right now, the ones I see is having the
better chance of doing that right now, or Holy Cross
and Bentley, but throw Sacred Heart in there too.
Speaker 3 (17:22):
If one of those goes on a real.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
Tear in the league so that they can move up
to like the top ten in the NPI, which is
a possibility if you have only a few lost points,
then maybe getting to the championship game and losing will
still get you in. But I think it's harder this year.
And as I've said right along, I think one of
the things that makes it harder is allowing sub five
(17:46):
hundred teams in. So a fifth or sixth place team
from the NCCHC or a fifth place team in Big
ten could squeak in even sub five hundred, So it's
really difficult.
Speaker 3 (17:58):
So I'm going to sell on that one.
Speaker 5 (17:59):
Or non conference left though, here's what I'll give you
a La Cross.
Speaker 4 (18:03):
I said, is there enough to be conference left on
Holy Cross?
Speaker 1 (18:07):
But yeah, they only have one game left and it's
against Merrimack. It almost becomes a must win non conference game.
They're twenty three right now in the NPI. If they
go on a run in Atlanta Cockey, they're really just
not going to have a lot.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
Of room for our Yeah, although there probably will be
some games in the win column for them that will
come off of their schedule because they hurt them for
the MPI purposes.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
So well, I'm not sure that that's going to be
enough to move no, but if you have, like a
say you have an eight hundred winning percentage, that may
be enough to get you up there.
Speaker 3 (18:44):
We'll see, We'll see how that goes.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
That's the only way I can see it happening in
either one of those leagues. Somebody has got to dominate
the league and then lose in the championship game and
hope it doesn't drop into like fifteen or sixteen. We
got two more for this episode. A blue chip player
will leave college hockey at the break by or sell bye.
Speaker 5 (19:08):
There will be somebody who leaves because of academics, not
playing enough something. And it happens every year. So I
just think everybody's making a big deal to CHL. Somebody's
going to go back somebody. But it happens with USHL kids,
it happens with development kids. It happened at Michigan last
year at the Humphreys kidd he went back to it
(19:30):
went to the OHL. I mean, it just happened. So
I don't think there's any difference this year to last
year to the year before. Somebody will leave because of something.
So yes, define blue chip to me as well. I
think because you're leaving because of lack of playing time?
(19:51):
Are you really a blue chip? Are you just unhappy
with your rule? So is Gavin McKenna going to leave
it Christmas? O? Is Porter Mateau that will leave in Christmas? No,
So it's obviously somebody that wasn't in somebody's clients or
their immediate plans.
Speaker 4 (20:11):
And it's a futures Like you said.
Speaker 5 (20:14):
Earlier, you're you're whole, you're buying for the futures, and
they want something immediate.
Speaker 3 (20:18):
I think the more yeah, I think, Sorry, go ahead, Sorry, I.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
Was going to say, I think the more fun thing
to look at is recruits who may de commit some
blue chip deep commits in that level. Maybe uh, maybe
somebody's committed to a lower program and has an opportunity
to hire one, or maybe a higher program has room
for somebody good and ends up letting somebody go. And
(20:43):
I think that's going to be interesting to watch. Not
exactly the same thing, but we're going to see some
of that movement happening.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
We already are.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
Yeah, you know, And to School's point, I think, you know,
if we can define what a blue chip player? Is
that that really kind of really does dictate the argument here.
I think you'll see you'll see a couple of players
maybe leave. I don't know that we'll call them blue
chip players though. So that's where I guess I get
a little cautious here. So you know, I'll buy on
(21:13):
it that you're going to have somebody leave. I don't
know how big of a name.
Speaker 4 (21:16):
It's going to be.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
Where do you draw the line? I mean, for a recruit,
is it a top ten birth year, a top twenty
birth year? And for a player, how do you agur it?
So I guess I guess we got to de next
time we.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
Do this, we'll define whatever you wrote it.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
So I did, and I've written it twice now and
I so didn't change the wording on it.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
So a really really really good player will leave college
hockey at the break, Yeah, I think that's a bye.
Last one, the Tim Taylor Award for National Rookie of
the Year will go to a former CHL player. I'll
buy that one and let you guys sort it out
from here.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
Yeah, all one hundred percent by basically just looking at
the current stats. When I look at rookies right now
you're talking about most of the top rookies are going
to are coming out of the CHL. Vaklab Nestrasil might
be the one out liar there at UMass. Everybody else
that I look at in the top five of scoring,
(22:13):
they're all CHL players, So I think, yeah, it's more
than likely you're going to get a really high end
name out of the CHL. Will it be Gavin McKenna,
that's my only question. You know, he's got so much
name recognition, but there's another there's a lot of other
rookies that are putting out the big numbers, so you
might see it's not Gavin McKenna, But I think it's
(22:35):
going to be a CHL player.
Speaker 5 (22:36):
Yeah, you know what a couple of weeks ago said,
I was one hundred percent by after watching a couple
of games, I wouldn't go so far. I mean, Ethan
Wittenbach from Quinnipiac played for Sue Falls in the USHL.
I mean, he's had a really good year. He's leading
the leading point guy right now and all rookie scorers.
(22:57):
But then after that you got Porter Matoni. He's not
witten Box not getting the pr that matone and McKenna
and all the other guys are getting Pourrier and Valentini
and all that.
Speaker 4 (23:11):
But.
Speaker 5 (23:13):
There's still other guys out there. But twenty two points.
McKenna's got eighteen points. He's got a USHL kid ahead
of them, same age, same birth year.
Speaker 4 (23:23):
But this kid, Whitenback, is drafted so one year older.
I don't know.
Speaker 5 (23:27):
It's not the not the one hundred and plus points
that people were expecting.
Speaker 4 (23:34):
That's for sure, so I guess I will buy.
Speaker 5 (23:37):
But the field, there's still some people out in the
field that could could take that.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
I forgot about winding box too. That was when I
left off. I should have had that one as well,
So I guess it's it's It's maybe not a guarantee
that we're going to see it, but I feel like
there's enough players in the top ten of scoring rookies
that is probably going to go.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
HL last question on this before we wrap up, what
about the effect of having gone and played in the
World Juniors. We've seen players come back from that and
really go on a tier.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
I'd like to see what players come back and what
that translates to this year. If a player can just
pick up some steam in that tournament. You know, then
you might see something like that. You might see a
rookie come back and can really dominate college hockey in
the second half. But I'm interested to see what World
Juniors becomes too. We're seeing the cross section of players
(24:31):
that are still in the CHL. You got the European
players that we don't know a ton about. I'm really
interested in this year's World Junior team. I don't think
in terms of the US that it's as strong as
the last couple of teams have been, so I think
this is a wide opening world too.
Speaker 5 (24:43):
They announced the US plimentary roster on Monday. It littered
with top to bottom lots of college guys. Michigan led
the way with six, six potential Wolverines on the team.
I see goaltending, goaltending, goaltending, goaltending.
Speaker 4 (25:03):
US has got to have a goalie could stop a pock. Yeah,
that's the issue.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
That's their issue right now.
Speaker 4 (25:10):
That's for sure.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
Well with that will wrap up here. This has been
upon further review. We're sponsored by the NCAA Men's Division
one Frozen four That is April ninth and eleventh in
Las Vegas. Visit NCAA dot com slash m Frozen four
for tickets. Also, you can watch this and like and
(25:33):
subscribe on YouTube at YouTube dot com. Slash us c
h O for Jim Connelly for Derek Scooley. I'm Ed
Trevsker and this has been upon further review
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