Open Lines / Open Topics for August 19, 2025

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
And as.

Speaker 2 (00:44):
Aunt as to.

Speaker 3 (00:55):
Say good morning, good afternoon, good evening, whichever the case

(01:49):
may be. For all of you listening out there across
the crazy planet, Ears, welcome to a brand new Vestige
after Dark and I am your host, Bishop Brian will

(02:09):
let it coming to you live from the deep woods
of Western Georgia on this August nineteenth, twenty twenty five. Tonight.
It is open lines, open topics for this second summer special,
and I hope you have all your questions ready because

(02:31):
we're going to be taking them directly from you. You
can call into the show. We'll give you that number
a little bit later if you want, but you can
also ask your questions in the various chat rooms where
we are streaming this show across the internet. It's gonna
be a good one. This is always a favorite. Don't
go anywhere. Well, hello, everybody, welcome to Vestigious after Dark again.

(03:57):
I am your host, Bishop Brian Wilette, and I am
here with my co host Jamie Wolf. How are you
doing tonight, Jay?

Speaker 4 (04:02):
Hey, everybody made it back safe from New Orleans.

Speaker 3 (04:05):
Yeah. Yeah, we were out there out there in the
Haunted country.

Speaker 4 (04:09):
Yeah yeah, I bring holy water, just you know, go
as New Orleans and ended up using it. I'm telling
you it was a quick three days, but it was
definitely interesting.

Speaker 3 (04:19):
It's a it's a crazy time out there. It's like
we were talking about before the show started. It's not
quite the same place it used to be before Katrina.

Speaker 4 (04:27):
No, definitely not.

Speaker 3 (04:28):
But you can still have fun where to look at.

Speaker 4 (04:30):
Yeah, make friends with the locals, hang out where they
hang out, eat where they eat, and you'll be guaranteed
to have good time.

Speaker 3 (04:36):
I have a good time exactly.

Speaker 4 (04:38):
Support the local economy.

Speaker 3 (04:40):
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Well, we are again having our second
summer special here and we are hoping that that tonight's
show will be a good one. Fortunately, it seems like
every single time there is a vestiges after dark, there
is always going to be some kind of technical issue.

(05:00):
It's almost to the point where you know, who's gonna
even believe us anymore, because how could you have this
these many problems. Well, just before we were getting ready
to go live here, we were having a power outage
because there's a storm in the area and it resets
some things. Are people having trouble hearing us what's going on?

(05:22):
I'm seeing a lot of like issues in the chat.
I'm just making sure just Tiffany, everyone else can hear
me fine, because you hear me through the intro and
everything else. Let me know in the chat if you did,
because I'm just making sure that everything's good on Father
Chris is in Okay, no issues on April Okay, Okay,

(05:46):
that's good to know. Yeah, it's probably a local issue. Tiffany,
with your connection, she probably can't hear me anyway, but
if the research should help, and Tracy's listening upstairs, so
everything's good, okay. I just want to make sure and
you could all hear me through the intro because I
know that last summer special, the one we did last month,
you couldn't hear me through the intro on the live

(06:08):
YouTube feed, the video feed, but you could on the
audio only feed that went out to the podcast, so
it was very strange. I want to make sure we
had that one worked out. But you could hear me
through the intro, okay, else it is. It's well, it
doesn't need to be this difficult, but with the constant
updates and you know, nobody that you can really talk

(06:31):
to because nobody wants to actually offer, you know, real
tech support, because nobody wants to pay anybody to work.
You know, it just becomes a challenge to to be
able to run a show like this. But let me
know if there were any issues with the intro. Hopefully
there wasn't, but I'll tell you the distracted by the

(06:53):
new video. Yeah yeah, I think, I mean it was.
It was a day's worth of work, and with the
help of AI, I was able to get it done
in that time because otherwise it probably would have taken
me months. It was a lot of work. I'm not
gonna say it wasn't, but you know it definitely. AI
took about forty percent of the job out of the

(07:13):
of the equation, so that's good. Anyway. We are on
a brand new connection tonight. Okay, so last time when
we did our first summer special on the fiber Internet,
we were still having some kind of outage issues, so
we up the bandwidth to double. We're now on a
two point two gigabyte connection up and down. It's as

(07:34):
fast as you can get. In fact, it's faster than
anybody really can use. Most modems, or I'm sorry, most
gateways don't even have the option to run at that speed,
but we are. It's not so much about the speed,
because there's only so much that you can get with
services like YouTube and everything else. Facebook has restrictions too,

(07:57):
so it's not so much about the s as it
is about the bandwidth that that speed gives you. So
by doubling it, it means that you can have twice
as many devices all running at the same time, which
lowers the chance of their being interruptions with the connection.
So we should not have any issues anymore with that
going forward. Now, power going out, I can't promise anything

(08:19):
with a storm in the area and the power company
already we had some brownouts. Fortunately I didn't lose all
my settings. You know, the laptop has its own battery power,
but the Internet runs completely on power. And even though
there's a generator to this location, that will still the
power has to go up before the generator kicks in,
and that means that we'll lose internet. And if that

(08:40):
were to happen, well, the show's over. So enjoy us
while we're here. But hopefully we're stable now I'm telling you,
you know, I think it's about done for the night.
I think so, and the storm seems to be subsiding,
and usually we don't you lose power twice when it
goes out. So I think we'll be okay, but I
just wanted to give fear warning in case it happens,
you won't be supprise e because there is something going

(09:01):
on joining us from Australia. We have father Chris Gates.
How you doing tonight? Father? This morning for you, this
morning for you.

Speaker 5 (09:11):
I'm doing well.

Speaker 6 (09:12):
I mean it's it's great because because it's night where
you are, I can say it was my birthday yesterday,
even though here it was two days ago.

Speaker 3 (09:20):
Bay. Yeah, have you had a good one? I'll you
drink a good scotch.

Speaker 5 (09:25):
Yeah, I did.

Speaker 6 (09:25):
I was bought a very nice scotch by my father
in law. In fact, I'll put a photo and stuff on.

Speaker 5 (09:30):
The on the on the app as well, please do.

Speaker 6 (09:34):
But also, I mean we sort of it was a
very it was a birthday sort of weekend that you
would have appreciated because we started by going to rick
Stein's restaurant on Friday night in Port Stephens. So he's
been a bit of a TV hero of Maya for
a long time. Nice and so yeah, it's the third
time of Mistry's restaurant. He opened up two restaurants in

(09:54):
Australia and they're great because it's really high cool.

Speaker 3 (10:00):
We're losing your father. I hope that's not me.

Speaker 6 (10:03):
You know, you'd have to worry about what you do
with the napkin or who you take with you.

Speaker 3 (10:08):
Right.

Speaker 5 (10:09):
Yeah, so it's really good.

Speaker 6 (10:10):
I'm actually not expensive, but bizarrely it's cheaper than some
really rubbish restaurants.

Speaker 3 (10:15):
So wow.

Speaker 5 (10:17):
Yeah, there you go. So I can recommend if anyone's
in Australia.

Speaker 6 (10:20):
Rick Steyn's restaurants. He's got to Indie, South Wales. A
lot of the one I've been to is Port Stephen's
very worth going.

Speaker 5 (10:25):
I need to get down when you come over, we'll
go there.

Speaker 3 (10:27):
Yeah, I need to get down there sometimes.

Speaker 4 (10:29):
Just come on over.

Speaker 3 (10:30):
Yeah, it's only halfway over.

Speaker 5 (10:31):
There is a room here.

Speaker 3 (10:32):
Yeah, halfway around the world, twelve hours into the future.

Speaker 4 (10:35):
Australia have been on my bucket high.

Speaker 5 (10:39):
Got some great deals on at the moment.

Speaker 6 (10:41):
Okay, all right, from lax to well, from anywhere in
America to Sydney.

Speaker 3 (10:47):
So I'm going to I'm going to the UK, Spain
and France next next year. And then I think I
think LEVI wants to do Japan the following year, so
maybe I can maybe I can fit it in between
Spain and in Japan. How about that figure it out? Yeah, yeah,

(11:12):
similar time zone.

Speaker 5 (11:13):
I think it's one hour difference.

Speaker 3 (11:14):
See, there we go, There we go. Maybe we could
just like to do it like a like a two
week go to Japan and then head down and see
you and.

Speaker 4 (11:20):
Hop on over.

Speaker 3 (11:20):
Yeah, to stop on over.

Speaker 6 (11:22):
I'll be in Britain in for Christmas. I'll be there
from the sixth of December.

Speaker 3 (11:25):
So well, that's good because you need to have a proper,
a proper Christmas. You can't have a Christmas in the summer.
I'm sorry.

Speaker 6 (11:32):
It's not the first one for my wife though, who
is Australian, to be the first time she's been.

Speaker 5 (11:37):
The first time she'll actually experience Christmas as it's supposed
to be cold and damp.

Speaker 3 (11:41):
Yeah, I mean, let's face it, that is what you
have to I mean, the whole point of Christmas, right,
the whole point of the U will see is it
was to shine a light in the darkness of the
of the of the coldest, dark, wet time of year.
So it works, it works out. But anyway, I would
you know, I would love to see you, so well,
we'll work that out sometime. And of course, you know,

(12:02):
if you come here, there's a there's a guest house
for you. Now you can have the whole waste yourself. Yeah, yeah, great, Yeah,
it will be a lot more comfortable than last time
with that horrible, questionable hotel you state. We don't we
don't want that to happen again.

Speaker 5 (12:19):
The curtains.

Speaker 3 (12:20):
I'm telling you, you know, I think it was your
grace that saved your life.

Speaker 4 (12:25):
We've said it before, but when I pulled up to
the hotel, I almost kept on going. I was like, no,
you're not staying here. Yeah, if you were a copper,
you're not staying here.

Speaker 3 (12:35):
I'm telling anything. Off the Understate drive.

Speaker 4 (12:38):
And you smell weed coming from the I'm like, oh, dear.

Speaker 6 (12:41):
God, I'm going to apply for the.

Speaker 3 (12:45):
Yeah, you need a visitors permit or something like that.
We need to find find a way to do it.
Joining us also from Tennessee. We have Brandon Malin with us.
How you doing tonight, Brandon London?

Speaker 7 (12:56):
I'm pretty good. You do come to the like the
house is very nice. You only have like one neighbor
and they're pretty chill for the most part, So you'd
be a whole lot better than that hotel.

Speaker 3 (13:09):
That's right. Brandon has stayed. Brandon has stayed at the
Retreat House with April, who is in now. April and
Rachel are both in the chat right now. They both
have stayed at the Retreat House. Brandon's been there twice,
April's been there twice, and so he can give you
a a full rundown as to what it's like. It's
a very nice.

Speaker 6 (13:29):
It's not a high compliment because I would have been
better off sleeping in the trees.

Speaker 3 (13:34):
You would have had a safer time in the trees.
I mean, honestly, I would go against I would go
up against the wild animals versus the people around here
any day of the week.

Speaker 4 (13:42):
You know, a rebel deer or something.

Speaker 3 (13:46):
But yeah, an occasional coyote, but I don't think they're
going to bother you as much as the people. Wild turkey,
wild turkey, lots of wild turkeys everywhere. Yeah, not the whiskey, no,
oh my goodness. But yeah, come on out and well
we'll have to do one of those little live specials

(14:06):
again or something like that.

Speaker 5 (14:07):
Obviously free all.

Speaker 3 (14:08):
Right, So again this is the Summer Special. Everyone. It
is open lines, open topics, So you guys are the
are the guests. Anything you want to talk about, anyone
listening right now? Anyway, you have a question, a comment,
a topic that you have on your mind, you can
start asking them in the chat. We'll have the the

(14:28):
phone number up on screen when we start taking calls,
and of course we prefer you call in, but if
you don't want to call in, that's fine, you can
ask in the chat. You know, there's lots of various
options for you to ask your questions all across the Internet,
so there's lots of ways in which you can get
your questions logged, and we'll do our best to answer

(14:49):
all of them tonight. Typically we're able to there's not
so many coming in that we usually have any of
that lot of leftover. So Brandon and Father Chris and
our moerators are wonderful moderators, mouge mystic mystics out there today.
We've got Tracy upstairs and she's watching the chat. And oh, Paula, Okay, Paula.

(15:11):
So we've got a lot of people I can help
with questions. Okay, they can help with questions and and
we'll try not to miss anything. And if my chair
is a little squeaky tonight and need some WD forty
and I have.

Speaker 4 (15:21):
You know that's right.

Speaker 3 (15:22):
If yeah, it's not my bag, but that's that's yeah,
it's not my back. But you might hear a little
bit of a squeaking and I did.

Speaker 4 (15:30):
Not realize him it might be me because my my
hips are pretty sore from walking all over the New
Orleans with a bum leg.

Speaker 3 (15:36):
I just.

Speaker 4 (15:38):
Oh, yeah, yeah, well the battle parts are definitely remind you.

Speaker 3 (15:42):
Yeah, I noticed after we went live that it was,
and it's like, I need to get some WD forty
on it. But maybe maybe maybe Levin during the break
and bring them down if you hear me, LEVI and
bring them down at the break. I'll try to sit
still until then. Okay, let's get started with questions from
the ether? What do you have for us?

Speaker 6 (15:59):
Then?

Speaker 7 (15:59):
I Brandon, So the first question, if a person believes
that they die and go to heaven, and since our
reality is what we create, wouldn't that be the case.
I understand you saying that we have to let go
of everything, but if we create our own reality because
we have the creative energy in us, wouldn't our belief
that we go straight to heaven also be part of that?

(16:22):
Just like we can manifest demons, wouldn't we manifest our
own afterlife?

Speaker 5 (16:27):
Okay, so that sounds like wishful thinking.

Speaker 3 (16:29):
I mean, well, there is some general metaphysical truth here,
and we're going to try to break that down because
this is actually some of the fundamental problems with mediumship
and after our near death experience and even astral projection
and some of these things. Now, as far as you're
talking the Christian theological point of view, we're talking about

(16:50):
the kingdom of Heaven that Jesus is talking about, then no,
we do not manifest that, and it does not become
what we want it to become. It. We become part
of what it is is, and that is what salvation is.
But I will venture to say that, and this is
something that Christianity does not really deal with, but Buddhism

(17:10):
deals with perfectly and quite extensively. Sort of the issue
in between. Okay. The problem I've always had with Christianity
is that, in its effort to give you the most
perfect formula for salvation, it leaves out all the nitty
gritty details as to what happens in between your life

(17:34):
here and attaining to the kingdom of heaven. It makes
it seem as though, you know, once you have salvation,
you just you know, you wake up and you're in
heaven and you know everything's perfect for all eternity. After that,
there is a process there. Now. Granted, if you have
if you die in a state of grace, it is
kind of that simple. But for the most part, the
average person, particularly today, where we are rejecting a lot

(17:57):
of the things where grace comes from, by seeing that
which is not important, and you know, believe in God's
not important, all these things that now it's a more
perilous journey for the average person than it might have
been in times past. People don't take things like sins
seriously anymore, so that complicates the issue and everything else.

(18:18):
Doesn't mean that a person's now, you know, completely out
of luck. That's not what I'm saying, But I'm going
to say the challenges of it are greater. Therefore, you
will hear me talk often about dying. Well, okay, now
let's talk about specifically this because what April. This is
April's question. I believe what she's really referring to here

(18:41):
manifesting our own afterlife is actually true. But there's that
it's it's a very perilous thing that we should not
be striving for and it should not be something that
we would ever want to try to produce. Now, Buddhists,
being what they are and having done their extensive rituals

(19:02):
of death practice and everything else, have a much better
metaphysical framework for this in between space between what we
call life and what the ultimate result is in death.
For I guess the best case scenario now in Buddhism,
that's referred to as nirvana, particularly powering nirvana, which is
sort of the nirvana that you don't come back from.

(19:24):
And in between that is this thing called the Bardeaux. Now,
the Bardeaux is a perilous underworld kind of journey. But
the thing is is that the Bardo leads to one
of the six Gatti. Okay, this is what they're referred to.

(19:44):
There's six states of reality that one can be borne
into as the result of In Buddhist terms, they're karma,
and that is determined not so much by the framework
of one's way of life as much as it is

(20:08):
as to what they must ultimately deal with in terms
of how how much effort they've put into realizing the
illusion in which they live, which is basically ego reality,
and we in the Christian religion called it the fallen world,

(20:28):
the fallen nature. In Buddhism, they're not. They don't talk
about it in those terms. They use more of the
terms of ignorance and attachment. Ultimately, when you really break
them down, it means the same thing. And we can
talk a lot about that tonight if you want to.
But to make it clear, there's two heaven gatti that's
the Heaven realm and the demi god realm. And then

(20:52):
there's two physical, physically dense realms, which is the human
realm and the animal realm. That's the one we're most
familiar with, of course, because that's the ones we experience
as what we call living people. And then there's two
hell realms, the hungry ghosts and the Hell Realm. Okay,
and all of them, all of them, let me repeat myself,

(21:17):
all six of them are manifestations of your mind.

Speaker 4 (21:23):
Manifestation sucked.

Speaker 3 (21:24):
I know, I know. We've talked about that. Yep, we've
talked about that. And when we we'll get into a
little bit of that again tonight, and from this perspective,
because even though we've discussed it, we haven't really talked
about from this perspective. Now, what does Buddhism teach? What
is it actually trying to teach us, particularly the Tibetan
Vajuriyana variety. Okay, it is trying to give us the

(21:44):
means to see past the illusion, so that we don't
become attached to the illusion. And you might say, well,
why would someone become attached to hell? You'd be surprised.
So you can die in a state of being so
attached to your traumas, to your miseries, to your sins,
even that you can't even identify outside of those things

(22:09):
to the point that they become your reality.

Speaker 4 (22:11):
People do that in walking life.

Speaker 3 (22:13):
Of course, because that's where it begins that the gatti
are not like other dimensions. The gatti are things that
you cultivate here and now you're just experiencing the dense
side of it, because that's what the human animal realm is.
But but as far as the heaven of the hell realms,
you know, you already start experiencing manifesting that you just

(22:36):
don't become fully a part of it until physical death occurs,
and then you enter into a less dense state where
then you will see whichever side is the other side
of the coin is being you know, so attached to
bliss and expectation that that becomes your reality. So I
fully expect that you'll have a whole bunch of people
who had them on the show come and say, you know,

(22:57):
they died and they saw Jesus opening their arms and
they come on home, and it's like, yeah, you know
what Buddhists, Buddhists, Buddhism has an axiom for that, if
you see Buddha look walking along the road, kill him?
And why would they say that? Why would they say
that about their most sacred figure? Okay, because Jesus to
Christians is kind of like Buddhists Buddha to Buddhists, all right,
it pretty much is almost like revered in the same way.

(23:20):
So why would you know, Christians whenever say if you
see Jesus walking around, walking along the road, kill him,
why would Buddhists say that about Buddha? Well, because what
we did, by the way, well we did, uh, well,
yeah we did, we did, and we still do. We
still do. But we wouldn't want to talk about it.
We don't like to think that we would do that.
We just kind of, again with our proclivity to create

(23:41):
illusions for ourselves, we attached to the realities that are convenient,
and that's why we live in a false reality. It's
not to say, and Buddhism doesn't say this either, that
the reality around us is like, uh, a virtual world
or some kind of like virtual reality. It's not saying that.

(24:02):
It's saying your perceptions of it. You don't see reality
the way it's supposed to be seen. You see it
through the lens of what you want to see. And
we do that all the time, whether you're Christian or Buddhist.

Speaker 6 (24:13):
So as some Paul's put it, we put we view
through a glass darkly.

Speaker 3 (24:17):
Yes, that's a great way of putting yes.

Speaker 6 (24:19):
And so, but I think like Christianity because I believe
Jesus Christ is true God and true man and rose
from the dead and conquered sin and death. Christianity brings
a sword. It's both good. It's the best news, and
it's also bad news. Because the best news is for
those who have come to the realization that Jesus is Lord,

(24:43):
that he is co eternal with the Father. All of
our crappy attachments and useless thinking is actually pierced by
by the relationship with him. He does the work with
us and for us. Yes, and so as the good
news about being now, that doesn't mean you should be
a lazy Christian. And because a lot of what you

(25:04):
said absolutely chimes. I mean, we could. I could spend
the rest of the whole show talking about people's attachments
to their wounds, you know, because Jesus is really fierce
about that. He heals a lot of people, but a
lot of the time he says, what do you want
me to do for you?

Speaker 5 (25:18):
And that question is really, do you want to be healed?

Speaker 3 (25:22):
Yeah? Or is this.

Speaker 6 (25:23):
Injury becomes so much part of you that it's become you?
Because that's sin, Because that's an attachment to injury. And
really like it when it comes to dealing with other
people that maybe it's not about a physical wound but
an emotional wound. There's no difference between holding onto that
and refusing that line of the Lord's prayer, forgive us

(25:47):
our trespasses as we can give those your trespass against us.
I mean, that really is the essence of that attachment.
So the good news for Christians is Jesus will do
that work for you because you have faith in Him.
Here's the bad news for you. And this is where
it is different for a Buddhist who's not encountered the Gospel.
For what for those who have encountered the Gospel of

(26:07):
Jesus Christ received the Holy Spirit. For them to then
rely not on Christ but on some kind of philosophical
metaphysical pathway is in fact a rejection of that which
has been given to them, and that rejection is terminal.

(26:28):
So it's not so in other words, it's not the
same for a Hindu, a Buddhist who's grown up in
a part of the world where you know, the Gospel
hasn't hasn't been received. I'm talking about reception, not talking
about oh you can read it online. I'm talking about,
you know, people who've actually been baptized, given their life
to Christ.

Speaker 5 (26:48):
That rejection is terminal.

Speaker 3 (26:50):
Oh yeah, rejection. I mean, I think the challenge to
that is, then if you're if you're raised in a
Buddhist culture. And I think I'm getting a little off
topic on this, but I'm just going to kind of
respond to you and then get back to the the
the rest of April's question. If you're born in a
Buddhist culture and you're raised in in in with a

(27:13):
Buddhist understanding, and you're content with that, and then somebody
you know through the course of your life, because i mean,
let's face it, who can I mean unless you live
in some kind of primitive jungle somewhere. I mean, how
are you going to be able to say that you
were not exposed to the Gospel? I mean, it's too available.
But whether or not you want to, it has to
be received exactly. That's the cayat. And if you're content

(27:37):
with what you have, Like the Dali Lama has been
asked that very question. He's very versed or at least
somewhat versed in Christianity, and he says, it's a beautiful religion.
It's not for me. I'm content with with with with
what I know, and.

Speaker 5 (27:52):
But we believe it's the truth. And so he's not
content with the truth, right, Well, I.

Speaker 6 (27:55):
Mean from our perspective, I'm not saying he's condemned by
the way, because he's not surprise, because he's not accepted him.

Speaker 5 (28:01):
So that's the distinction on Jewel that.

Speaker 3 (28:03):
Is the distinction. But so but I think, but that,
But it's true for both of us though, because it's
like you could you could be you know, a child
that was raised in a Christian family and accepted baptism,
went to your first communion, did all this stuff, and
then grew up and was like this is a bunch
of bullshit. I'm not yeah exactly. So it works both ways.

(28:26):
It's it's not so much that whether or not, you know,
if once you've accepted it, then responsibility comes to maintain it.
If you lose it after accepting, that's where it becomes
very treacherous. But to get back to the question, the
fact is is that there is a realm now. Of course,
in Judeo Christian theology, it falls under the domain of

(28:51):
what the Jews used to refer to as shale okay,
sign of kind of like this this this state of unkind'ousness,
almost like a drifting dream like state. In Buddhism, it's
much more dynamic than how it's described in Judaism, because
basically Shahel and the bardow are are essentially the same thing.
When you really break it down, I mean, there'll be

(29:13):
people that argue with me about that, but I would
argue right back, and I don't want to get into
that debate because that's not really important to this question.
The question is do we create our own heaven? Well, yeah,
if you know, if you haven't, if you haven't found
the real one, is the answer. If you haven't found
the real one? And how do you know the difference
between what you want to be true and what is true?

(29:36):
And that is directly proportionate for both Buddhists and Christians.
They both agree on this to how much have you
surrendered yourself to to how much have you surrendered your attachments?

Speaker 6 (29:52):
Because I'm reminded that quote from from John Milton. I
think it's some paradized loss. The mind is its own
place in itself can make a heaven of hell and the.

Speaker 5 (30:00):
Hell of heaven. Yes, I mean, is that what we're
talking about?

Speaker 3 (30:04):
I mean, I I think it is, But I think
it's it can be even more real than just sort
of like a like a philosophical thought. I think it
can become a reality. For example, there are a lot
of people who who define their life by their illnesses.
In fact, they will even say I am so and
so I've got this problem. And and when you live

(30:24):
your life as though you are your illness, then what
else are you? Then you're attached to the illnessness is
so pervasively you become the illness. It is evil Buddhist.
That's the beautiful thing is that Buddhism actually recognized that,
you know, five hundred years before there even was a Christianity,

(30:47):
and had been doing something about it.

Speaker 8 (30:50):
Now.

Speaker 3 (30:50):
The difference between Christianity and and and Buddhism is basically
that with Christianity you get infinite help. With Buddhism, it's
all on your shoulders mostly, and that doesn't necessarily bode well.
And even a Buddhist will tell you that won't bode
well unless you perhaps spend five, one hundred or five
thousand lifetimes working at it. Whereas you know, a Christian

(31:11):
who surrenders themselves to God will never have to worry
about it. But the key here is surrender. If you don't,
then you're holding your whatever. You you know that you've
heard the thing. You know, spend your money now because
you can't take it with you. That's true for money,
but it's not true for your state of mind. If
greed is the motivation behind why you might hoard or

(31:37):
be a miser with with with resources, then yeah, you
don't take the money with you, but you definitely take
the mentality with you. You become miserliness, you become greed,
and that becomes your entirely out. Now that's a hell
realm from a Buddhist perspective, that's a help. You will
live in a perpetual state which will feel like an eternity.

(31:59):
It's not actual in Buddhism. It's not forever. It's almost forever.
It's it's the three immeasurable eons thing. But you will
become where you live in a constant state of greed
that can never be satiated. The fear, because let's what
what what causes greed, It's it's fear, fear of loss.
So what you will experience in this is any is

(32:21):
it practically eternal state of feeling as though you're always
losing everything and trying so hard to hold it all
together and not being able to. Would you want to
spend eternity like that? That's precisely what people will create
in their after life if they haven't worked towards salvation.
So in a lot of ways, This is very consistent

(32:43):
with kind of a Dante's infernal sort of perspective on
on hell. There is some truth to that. It's the
difference is it can end when you want it to.
And the problem is that, as they say in Buddhism,
why would the hells or the heaven realms end? When
a person who is in the hell realms, for example,

(33:05):
are so burdened by the pain and suffering that they
can't see the forest from the trees, they can't see
the light at the end of the tunnel, so they
stay perpetually in it. And the person likewise who's in
a heaven realm, when they're so blissed out by the
delusions of their expectations for what they think Jesus is
or what God is, if they live and worship and

(33:27):
idle their whole life, they become that idol, and that
idle welcomes them, and there'll be a false Christ there
to greet them, and they won't be able to tell
the difference between the real one and this fake one
they've created. It's just an appearance and manifestation of their
own ego. And therefore you're so blessed out, why would
you care you don't care if you found the real
one or not. It feels good. And we as Christians

(33:50):
are actually called to reject both, to find the real
authentic Christ, the real authentic Kingdom of Heaven with grace.
That's a that's easily attainable without grace.

Speaker 6 (34:04):
And if it comes, if it comes without sacrifice or
across for you as.

Speaker 3 (34:08):
Well, yes, exactly exactly it does. It has to hurt
and even you know again, Buddhism doesn't have a crucifixion
you know framework, but they definitely have a sacrificial framework.
They understand that it is the death of the ego
and it's the hardest thing to achieve. But until you've
done so, then guess what. You're stuck. And we hold

(34:32):
those attachments with us. Death does not change it. So
if you live your whole life attached to your people,
your suffering, your fears, your your anxieties, your sicknesses, and
if you've made a whole lifestyle of that and you
haven't come to terms with that by the time you die,
either by handing it all over to God for his
grace to replace it, or by virtue of doing all

(34:54):
the work that Buddhists have to do, then you're going
to basically become those very things in day, and that,
let me tell you, is not a pleasant experience. Which
is why for those of us who work in the
paranormal field know that the most challenging things that we
go up against are not demons and fallen angels, but

(35:15):
the soul, the spirits of people who did not die well.
And they they held onto their attachments so tightly that
now they have no identity beyond it, they have no reality.
We Ultimately, in Buddhism it's called a nasa means no soul.
But the word soul is defined differently in Buddhism than

(35:35):
it is in Christianity. Doesn't mean that you don't have
a you know, a life force or essence like we
define soul in that sense. In Buddhism, soul is defined
as self. Okay, and in reality Christian or Buddhist is
the same. There is no self. The only identity that
is to be found is in Christ. Then that's what
is meant in in the in But Philippians two five,

(36:00):
let this mind be in you, that is also in
Christ Jesus. We must take on that becomes Christ, becomes
our identity, not our sickness is not our fears, not
our traumas Christ. Okay.

Speaker 6 (36:12):
And also why we know it has to be true
because like because if you think about it.

Speaker 5 (36:17):
You're right.

Speaker 6 (36:18):
We make idols of our own disease, right, That's where
disease comes from. Right, So, whether it's psychological or physical
or both.

Speaker 5 (36:27):
And the way.

Speaker 6 (36:28):
That God snaps us out of it is by saying,
look at me, I'm one of you, and I'm on
a cross.

Speaker 5 (36:36):
Yes, you know, so whatever your.

Speaker 6 (36:39):
Sufferings are, I'm abandoned, I'm wounded, I'm beaten, you know.

Speaker 5 (36:45):
And it's not about like you know, you know I've.

Speaker 6 (36:47):
Suffered more than you, that's not the point because and
the reason we know that is because that that beaten, suffering,
crucified man extends his wounds to the disciples and says
peace be with you. And that that's that is the miracle.
That's the radical truth, is that instead of licking his
wounds and saying, you know, where were you, your bastards,

(37:09):
he says peace be with you. And that's how you
know it's authentic, and it's how we know God's love
for us is beyond measure because I wouldn't do that
I'm not. I'm not God.

Speaker 3 (37:21):
By death, Yeah, by death he conquerors death is an
old you know, Orthodox hymn. Yeah, it is, it's an anthem. Yeah,
by death, he conqueror's death. What that means is, in
order to defeat the disease, you have to face it
and be completely detached from it entirely. And the only

(37:46):
way for us to truly do that reliably is to
completely give it over to Him. That's where Christ comes in.
That's why, that's why Christ is an essential part of
the process of salvation. And that's the the you know,
that's the theology. But back to the question, Yeah, we
do create our heavens. And I will say that ninety

(38:09):
nine of all of these after near death, after life
experiences that people report are visions of the bardoux, even
the good ones. Even when they say, oh, I was
there and I saw I saw my relatives and they
greeted me, and Jesus was there and all this stuff. Yeah,

(38:33):
that's an illusion. That's not You were not in heaven.
You were in a gatti. Yes, you were in the
heaven gatti. It was I'm sure it felt pretty good,
but something inside you woke you back up and brought
you back to reality because see, in Buddhism, the human
realm is the most sacred because it's only here that
we can experience both bliss and suffering equally, and that

(38:54):
gives us the ability to actually wake up and defeat
them both. Just like in Christianity, in order to defeat death,
we have to face death right bye, by death, we
by dying. We we end death through Jesus, right, That's
what he did and when we follow him and and
the result will be the same, We rise just like
he roes. That's the whole point here, And Buddhism recognizes

(39:14):
that same formula. They just talk about it in very
different terms. And you know, be it for good or bad.
You know, I would say that the Buddhist way is
a lot more challenging. I would not say a Buddhist
has any any inability to maintain into what we in
Christianity call salvation, but I would say their path is

(39:36):
a lot more difficult going it their way. They do
have a kind of christ figure in Buddhism called Amitaba.
He can be called upon at the time of death
and he will take you to a a reality. It's
not honestly in Buddhist cosmology. It's it's really in all

(39:57):
intents and purpose, it's a different planet. You'll be born there,
and it's a place where there is minimal suffering, and
and uh, you are able to then sounds a lot
like honest almost like purgatory to some degree, you know,
And and you're able to then use that one lifetime
to spend it all on attaining enlightenment. And it's done

(40:21):
with the help of Amy Taba. It's very grace like,
I mean, I really think what it is is, honestly
the Christian archetype that sort of got into the consciousness
of the Tibetans and and then became part of Buddhism.
I'm not gonna say Ami Taba is Jesus. I'm not
going to say that, but I would say archetypically.

Speaker 4 (40:39):
He kind of is correlation definitely.

Speaker 3 (40:41):
Yeah, because it's definitely a correlation. So interesting thing. But
the point is here is that there is a real
heaven and a real God, and it's not the one
that you think, you know, right, what most of us
worship is a false god, the buddy Jesus with the
thumbs up, the idea that you know, you know, Jesus
is your best friend.

Speaker 6 (41:02):
And and you know he this is not Jesus says,
you know, the poor man Lazarus.

Speaker 5 (41:07):
You know, Oh, let me let me tell my brother. No, no, no,
once you're in the real thing, yeah, yeah, no.

Speaker 3 (41:16):
And this is why discernments so important, you know. In
Buddhism it's it's it's mindfulness. In Christianity we call it discernment.
The kind again, two sides of the same coin. You
really can't have one without the other. It's just one.
Religion emphasizes just one side. I kind of put them
together because I come from both worlds and I have
found value and and that. But that's a brilliant question,

(41:40):
a wonderful question. We can definitely elaborate on on that
if there's interest. I'll rely on the.

Speaker 5 (41:45):
Chat sparks a lot more questions as well.

Speaker 3 (41:48):
And we'll get to that. Let's get to the next
one for now. I don't want to spend too much
more time on that one.

Speaker 7 (41:54):
And so the next question, how can a Christian explain
the Trinity with that resorting to saying mystery, we're not
meant to know everything, or giving an explanation that the
Early Church has already established as heresy such as arianism
or modalism.

Speaker 3 (42:11):
Okay, I thought we were gonna have an easy one.
It's going to be even harder than the last one.
So I'll try to be I'll try to be concise,
and again, if we if we, if we go, you know,
if people want to elaboration on this, we can spend
the next couple of hours on this. So that's the
beautia of that. Well, no, I'm glad you saved this
one for open lines open topics, because at least it

(42:33):
gives us time to talk about the rest. But the
reality is is that I don't like when people say
it's a mystery, because that does it's a cop out,
it's lazy. It makes it sound like you really don't know.
And people that are using this kind of question are
probably trying to call you out and trick.

Speaker 4 (42:51):
It's a gotcha question.

Speaker 3 (42:52):
It is a gotcha question. The fact of the matter
is is that the it can only be answered theologically.
That's the only way to answer it. So the the
correct way to answer this is each person of the
Holy Trinity is fully God. Okay, to put it another way,
you can say that there is one God who is

(43:13):
three distinct persons, each one which is fully God. That
is the Christian theological explanation. It comes from very extensive
writings of Saint Augustine, Thomas Aquinas, Saint Oh Gosh, Saint Gregory.

(43:33):
There are numerous things out there that try to elaborate
on that one statement, but there is no statement that's
going to be more accurate and that will avoid some
of the heresies of partialism and modalism. Yet, you don't
really want to get into this idea that God just

(43:54):
puts on a show or or works through a different face,
but it's really the same, He just puts a different
face on. That's that's all inaccurate, okay. And it's not
as though there's three different Gods all combining to become
one God. Either. It is one hundred percent fully God,
but still three distinct persons who are fully God, and

(44:16):
it is the same God that they are fully of.
And that is something that can only be answered theologically.
It can only be given a context theologically. You cannot
try to dumb that down. And the reason why it's
a challenge for people to accept that is that we
are linear and God is not.

Speaker 4 (44:38):
I was about to say he's He's outside of what
we know inside of time space.

Speaker 3 (44:43):
So some of these things that seem like contradictions are nonsensical,
you know, things that cancel each other out.

Speaker 6 (44:50):
It's why we say co eternal in the Creed, Yes,
co eternal with the Father. In other words, this is
outside of time. And so I mean there is a
useful synthesis of mist. And because I agree, the word
God's a mystery was or the phrase God's and mystery
was banned from seminary. You know, when I was at
Oxford it was like, you're not allowed to say mystery
because you know, mystery in a theological sense for Christians

(45:13):
is the acknowledgment that after you've applied your entire mind,
your intellect, and the intellect of the ages to God, yes,
God is still going to be beyond us.

Speaker 5 (45:24):
That that is what mystery means.

Speaker 6 (45:26):
Okay, but that does a mean you to haven't got
to do the you know, the form of first Now,
the one way is to say God is utterly beyond us.
So therefore we can never fully know God, because if
we could fully know God, we'd be equal to God
and we'd be God's So God is is simultaneously unknowable

(45:47):
to us, but also revealed to us. And so the
tradition that has been applied to what formulated the Creeds
is the apathetic tradition, and that is to say, there
are things we can say that God is not. So
there's two ways you can say something. You can say
what something is. So you know, I could say, you know,
this is a flask a cup, or I could say, oh,

(46:11):
well it's not a plate, it's not an elephant, it's
not a person.

Speaker 5 (46:16):
You know. That's the apathetic tradition. Now with God.

Speaker 6 (46:20):
Because God is unknowable and a mystery beyond our knowing,
it's safer to say what God is not.

Speaker 5 (46:28):
And so.

Speaker 6 (46:31):
The tradition from the Church fathers this is very prevalent
still in Orthodox thinking today and in Catholic thinking too.
But we got a bit rational and like to say
what things are, but it is to say what God
is not. And so if you look at the Creeds,
for example, they're really dealing with that issue, you know,
because they're dealing with the issues of groups of Christians saying.

Speaker 5 (46:53):
Oh, Jesus is half God half man.

Speaker 6 (46:55):
Well, no, that's why we have so we're saying, no,
he's definitely not half God half man, he's co eternal
light from like God from God. You know, that's the
way we approach the Trinity. But we are monotheists, and
a lot of the time we really have to shout
that from the rooftop. I work a lot with Muslims
who are friends of mine. Sure, and you know, and

(47:16):
so I say, no, we are monotheists. There is one
God almighty. But to be honest, I have to say
more to Christians who treat Jesus as though somehow different
than something else. Yeah, so we're not. We are monotheists.
Jesus is God.

Speaker 3 (47:34):
Again. It comes back to the fact that we are
linear and God is not. It's the same. I kind
of put this question in the same context and where
people kind of ask me, like, you know, if we
were created by God, then where did God come from?
Well that's a silly question because you have to say that.
The answer is, well, God always was. And it's like,
well that that can't be. Well, it's like, no, it

(47:55):
can't be for you because you're linear. But if you
remove time from the equation, it's the only way it
can be. It's just you can't comprehend something that's outside
of the paradigm of what you've been created through. So
you're under created. You can't understand the uncreated. You can't
understand the uncreated. And that's the that's the challenge of it.

(48:15):
They're only mysteries to us because we can't extend ourselves
outside the framework of what is our nature. And our
nature is part of the fallen world. We're not separate
from it, you know. It's not like we're like some
kind of like perfect creature that that that now you know,
got broken and we fell into this broken universe. No,

(48:36):
the universe and us are one and the same thing.
We are part of creation, all right, the creat This
creation involves all of what's out there and everything that's
in here too. But it's all fallen. It's all broken.
And by broken, what does it mean to be fallen? Well,
it means to be existing within time because what is
what did the scripture say the penalty for fall? The

(48:58):
fall was death?

Speaker 5 (49:00):
And where is death?

Speaker 3 (49:00):
And where does death come from? It comes from entropy? Right,
And entropy is is the problem here, all right? That's time.
Time causes that because there has to be If there's
a beginning, then that means there has to be an end.
There has to be an end, and that means that
since you started, you're going to end one day. That's
the consequence of the fall. That's what correct. Yeah. Yeah, yeah,

(49:26):
so there you go.

Speaker 4 (49:28):
Okay, I was looking up a because there's a YouTube
video out. It's several years old, but it's a debate
between an atheist and a I guess he's a theologian,
uh doctor Kent Hovind uh huh. And he explains it
about the linear God being outside leonared time and he
just runs away with it and just shuts everybody up
in the theater. I encourage all to watch it. It's

(49:52):
called where Did God Come From? And just look on
YouTube and it's about John Lennox.

Speaker 5 (49:58):
Is really good on that as well. Yeah, the Northern mathematician.

Speaker 4 (50:02):
You're right, So I encourage you to look that up.

Speaker 3 (50:06):
Yeah. I mean, these are human problems, they're not God problems.
So don't apply human problems to God's to God problems. Okay,
you don't. You don't have to. You don't have to
necessarily understand it because you're not going to be able to.
It's kind of like, you know, you can't teach something
that's outside of something's nature. It has to be somewhat
applicable to their nature to really understand it. It's like

(50:27):
it's like the old little story I tell from time
to time. It's like, you know, I could I could
invite Father Chris over for you know, a nice glass
of nineteen sixty three port and we can sit there
and have a great you know time. Yeah, we have
a great have a great time talking about it, you know,
discussing it, you know, maybe smoking some cigars with it.

(50:48):
But if I try to share it with the ants
that are walking next door, you know, next next to me,
you know, I'm probably going to kill them. They're not
going to understand that this was a gesture of of
of of kindness, you know, and they're not going to
understand the nuance, and they're not going to really even care.
So the fact of the matter is I can't share

(51:08):
nineteen sixty three poort with an ant because it's outside
of their nature. They will never understand it, and there's
no way for them to understand it. But it's very
easy for us to understand. Fact, there's people that might
not understand it, but there's you know, people that that
that do. And the only people wouldn't appreciate it, it wouldn't
appreciate it, right because they don't fully understand it, right.

(51:29):
So you know, it's the same thing with that you
can only you can only share what is of a
person's nature, because God is outside of our nature. You know.
We might have a divine nature within us by virtue
of being made in His image, but that doesn't mean
where anything like him, particularly now that we're falling, because
we kind of, like sacrifice, gave up the last of

(51:49):
what made us resemble Him in a lot of ways.
The only thing that we've retained is the ability to create.
That's it. That's about the only thing we've gotten.

Speaker 6 (51:58):
Also explain is why you know Christians stress the christ
event so fiercely is because the unknowble God becomes noble
to us, you know, in God, in God the Son,
so he you know, I don't to stretch your analogy,
you'd have to say, well, the sixty three port became
an aunt, you know, but definitely is the it's the

(52:23):
you know, I mean Fulton Sheen Bless used to say,
you know, God condescending to become human is like is
like us becoming a dog, you know, And so you
know that that's how which God loves us, he's willing
to kind of take on human nature, and so he
becomes the I think is this Saint Paul says, the

(52:44):
image of the invisible God might be wrong, it might
be one of the other epistle writers. But the image
of the invisible God, which is why, that's why Jesus
is the is the focal point of of our faith.

Speaker 3 (52:58):
Well, sir, okay, what's our next one? Randon?

Speaker 7 (53:01):
So next one is have you ever encountered like a
generational curse or a curse in general? And how is
it different from a demonic oppression?

Speaker 3 (53:12):
Yeah, I mean infrequently, we do encounter those from time
to time. The way that one would be able to
differentiate one from the other is that a generational curse
typically will present as a pattern, a typically very extreme
pattern of misfortune and bad what will be like termed

(53:36):
bad luck perhaps, whereas a demonic oppression presents more so
as physical, emotional, psychological, and even spiritual disturbance or illness,
and there is sometimes even environmental disturbances associated with that.
So that's how we would look at it in terms

(53:57):
of a diagnostic way, going into a case perhaps and
trying to figure out which what it is. You'll have
a lot of people that will, you know, claim a
generational curse or something when it's not. What it is
is it's a pattern of sinful behavior that that the
family has learned to pass on. Because sin is is
contagious and behavior is also contagious. So if you have,

(54:22):
you know, if you're raised in a family that are
prolific sinners, well chances are you're going to be one
two unless you can find a way to break out
of that cycle. It's the same thing with any kind
of abuse, right, Abusive families that have patterns of abuse
tend to perpetuate.

Speaker 4 (54:41):
That's just like an alcoholic tends to pass that down
to their kids.

Speaker 3 (54:44):
Yeah. Now I'll try to say it's a genetic or something,
but I mean it's beyond me. It's behavior. It's a
little bit of both, but it's it's largely, in my opinion, behavioral.
You know, the whole nature versus nurture debate, I think
I think nurture is a bigger part of that factor.
I think we can overcome anything by our nature, but
I don't necessarily think it's as easy to overcome what

(55:05):
has been learned and when you are successful in a
negative pattern of behavior. And if you're what I mean
by that is that alcoholics very successful at being an alcoholic.
You know why because whatever they're trying to gratify, usually
it's it's it's disassociation or something. You know. Then then
drinking is a very easy fix for that. You can

(55:27):
succeed it at every single time, but it creates a
pattern of dysfunction that continues on. So a lot of
people will claim a generational curse when it's anything, but
it's actually not demons and it's not curses. It's just
you being you and not really making the kind of
correct effort to overcome those things, whether it be spiritual

(55:49):
or psychological or both usually both. Now, a generational curse,
like I said, will present if it's authentic, as a
pattern of what seems extreme amounts of bad luck and
demonic oppressions do not present like that. They are more
like attacks things that where usually it's one person whoever's

(56:11):
being afflicted will have a series of extreme reactions, whether
they be behavioral or eternal experiences. But it wouldn't fall
into this general state because people that have generational curses
don't become possessed by them. You know not usually there
are curses that can produce possession. That is true, But

(56:34):
now you're talking about a high level practitioner that could
create something like that, and most people will never come
in contact with someone that would know how to do that,
And what are the chances you're going to piss that
kind of person off, you know, where they could do it. Now,
you might be able to hire someone to do, you know,
a black magic ritual on an enemy. That could become problematic,

(56:54):
but you know, most of the time those are very
easy to break because in reality, the hardest curses to
break are ones that are generated by the practitioner themselves
against a target that they themselves are are involved with.
Hiring someone to do that is going to minimize the effect.

(57:16):
So it would have to be someone that learns how
to do it and learns is successful at it, knows
how to be you know, proficient at doing it, and
then pulls it off. That's very rare, Okay, the chances
of that happening are very very rare.

Speaker 6 (57:30):
Not unpossuide I have come across generational curses, but only
from Eastern Europe or Greece.

Speaker 3 (57:39):
Interesting for us.

Speaker 6 (57:40):
Here, yeah, but from that from that family, from that tradition,
from that family line.

Speaker 3 (57:45):
From here, it's mostly Afro Caribbean like Santaia or because
that's what we have now, that's what we have. The
closest connection.

Speaker 4 (57:53):
A lot of our recent ones of someone's put the
roots on.

Speaker 3 (57:58):
Me, voodoo hood uh Santoria. These are where you tend
to see the possibility of them. But most of the time,
it's not a generational thing like people think. It's just
you know, there's there's patterns of behavior that need to
be overcome and they need a psychologist, usually more than
a than a shaman. But you know, it is what
it is. But that's really I think.

Speaker 4 (58:21):
Trying to convince the clients, so that is a lot.

Speaker 3 (58:23):
Harder and then they really kind of take offense when
you suggest it. You know, they really do. Okay, so
let's look, that's what we're gonna do. Okay, We're going
to take our top of the hour break now. And
I know we've got someone on the line from a
Missouri number. I believe you have a lot of questions,

(58:44):
lots of questions I see, and I saw a lot
of people trying to call in. Unfortunately, you guys hung
up before I was able to connect you to the
to the to the hold. So yeah, it's hard. I
don't have anybody to help with that. So right now
we got someone on hold, so please don't hang up
because it might be hard to get back in touch.

(59:05):
We will have the number on the line. We are
still taking calls. I promise it's just for the first hour.
We do the questions from the ether segment, yes, but
going up here will be taking questions. Okay. Priority will
go to the phone. So when we come back, we
will take this call from Missouri and then the other
calls that might come in, and then get to your
questions in the chat as well.

Speaker 4 (59:25):
And there's plenty to keep us busy.

Speaker 3 (59:27):
Great, all right, we'll be back after this. Don't go away.

Speaker 1 (01:00:13):
S S S sas sassa has as scout south south

(01:00:41):
cost the south, pas, sousa, sasu the sUAS the south,

(01:01:39):
Sasu sathaus the south and saaaaa south as faaaaaath sas.

Speaker 8 (01:02:00):
S s s s.

Speaker 2 (01:02:06):
S s s s s s s.

Speaker 1 (01:02:13):
Stut suta subtam, suta, spa, sutta sua, sumpta stay super
stata suttas.

Speaker 2 (01:03:01):
Ship shop shape shape shaped shap.

Speaker 1 (01:06:28):
Not alae do not agree. They not agreement.

Speaker 9 (01:06:45):
Do not agreement, Do not agreement.

Speaker 8 (01:06:49):
And the.

Speaker 3 (01:07:30):
Welcome back everyone to the second hour of Vestiges after dark.
It's been a great turnout here today. This is great.
Great to see all of you and spend tonight with
you all. You know, we live for our audience and
you guys are great. So we'll be getting to many
of your questions, and we, like I said, have a
caller waiting on hold here for when we come back.

(01:07:52):
We'll be taking their question. And if you've been having
a hard time getting through, all I can say is
just keep on trying. I'll try to get you into
the queue if I can. It's a little bit more
difficult with this system, but I'll do my best. The
number to call is two O seven five four four
one nine eight three. That's two O seven five four
four nineteen eighty three. And let's get to it right

(01:08:14):
after this. Okay, everyone, we have got a caller from

(01:09:15):
the eight one six area code. I believe that's Missouri. Hello,
you are on the air. Hello.

Speaker 10 (01:09:24):
Can you hear us?

Speaker 3 (01:09:24):
Yes, I can hear you a loud and clear right.

Speaker 8 (01:09:28):
Okay, awesome. Hi.

Speaker 3 (01:09:30):
My name is Tristan.

Speaker 10 (01:09:31):
I'm with my fiance Jessica. We're just calling to uh
get your take on a story that kind of happened
to us recently. Okay, so basically my fiancee, Jessica, she
has a cousin who apologize in advance. This is kind

(01:09:55):
of a sad in the tragic story. They there's this
farmhouse that is in her family that multiple family members
in the past have lived in, and pretty much everybody
who's had experiences one way or another in this house.
Some people have said that they've been pushed down the stairs,

(01:10:20):
They've felt like they've been watched by like a group,
a big group of people whenever there's nobody there. That's
something that she's actually personally experienced. Her cousin, who was thirteen,
reported seeing women in the house holding a knife and

(01:10:45):
it basically was telling her, you know, things that basically
culminated into her having some bad thoughts toward herself and
toward her family. She got checked doubt psychologically, They told
her that she was fine and that was that. She

(01:11:06):
reported getting touched on her shoulder and then of a
few months later, she was diagnosed with a form of
bone cancer on that shoulder. Okay, there's there's a lot
of other things that I guess I could get into
with this house in particular, but everything kind of culminated

(01:11:27):
with the house on fourth of July burning down, unfortunately
ending her life and injuring most people in the house. Again,
she was thirteen.

Speaker 3 (01:11:41):
She was the only one that she was the only
one that died in this fire.

Speaker 10 (01:11:49):
On the scene. Yes, so her mother was a mess addict,
and she had her boyfriend over and they were sleeping
together and they both caught on fire. As far as
we know, things have been very strained with the family

(01:12:09):
since then because we've kind of told them this entire
time that they needed to get out of there.

Speaker 5 (01:12:14):
And.

Speaker 10 (01:12:16):
They It's a long story, like I said, but basically
it culminated with the boyfriend dying a few days later
from injuries, and then, as far as we know now,
the mother is still in the hospital with severe burns
and severe injuries.

Speaker 4 (01:12:35):
Did the fire department determine a cause of the fire?
Started interrupt you just my law enforcement.

Speaker 6 (01:12:42):
Mind, Yeah, yeah, so, yeah.

Speaker 8 (01:12:45):
The official thing was.

Speaker 10 (01:12:48):
It was on the fourth of July and apparently did
have a party of the night before, and there was
some simmery I guess of the fireworks afterwards, and it
just caught fire in the middle of the night. I
didn't have working smoke detectors. And the house, it was
a very very old house. There was a aunt of
my fiancees who used to live there, who did some

(01:13:12):
rituals and stuff like that, and has had very weird
knowledge of the house from where she's had in the
nursing home now. She would call at weird times and
just like jump in on conversations that the family is having,
Like there was this one time the thirteen year old's

(01:13:33):
mom was talking about her time in VMX, which is
like bike racing, and all of a sudden they've not
gotten a call from her aunt in months. All of
a sudden she calls and says that, hey, I want
to know more about her and her bike racing, and

(01:13:57):
she said that they already told her about it. She frequently,
I mean, she's in a nursing home for basically psychiatric issues,
but she constantly refers to the they or the woman
who tells her things that are happening in the house.
Whenever she found out that the house is burned down.

(01:14:19):
According to some of her family members, this her aunt
apparently said that she already knew, and she said that
she is still alive in the house, and she moved
into the barn with the couch, which there is a
barn with a couch that used to be in there
on the property. A lot of stuff, a lot of stuff.

(01:14:44):
But basically, I guess the question something that my fiance
has been kind of troubled with is just the thought
of her thirteen year old cousin being stuck and not
being able to cross over. Something that's kind of been
on my mind is what kind of spirit would be

(01:15:05):
ants possibly be dealing with. Yeah, and yeah, I guess
I'll be there.

Speaker 3 (01:15:15):
Yeah. No, I mean, well, first let me say that
I'm very, very sorry that you're going through this because
that's a horrible, horrible situation. It's a fascinating story, but
it's it's it's a it's a horrible one at the
same time, and it shows, you know, I thank you
for calling in and sharing it, because it shows just

(01:15:36):
how serious this stuff is. I think people think the
paranormal is either nonsensical or it's it's something to play with,
some kind of entertainment that we can have fun with,
because it's it's intriguing and it's it's it's it's uh,
you know, mysterious and all that, but this shows the
reality of it. This is where we this is what
we deal with when we deal with authentic situations, which

(01:15:58):
this is almost certainly one that's you know that you're
you're talking about beyond the usual coincidences that we would
look for, and the fact that you know, there are
there's a cult rituals that are either known or suspected
to have taken place on this property, and then all
of the things that sort of culminated. It usually does

(01:16:20):
start out with, you know, some kind of history that
something sort of triggers it, and then it slowly culminates
to the point that eventually someone either gets hurt or dies.
In this case, a whole lot more than that seems
to have happened. So you know, this is what it

(01:16:42):
sounds to me again, you know, I mean, I can
only give you a basis on my experience and similar cases.
Each case is always different, and when we work a case,
we're always surprised ourselves by some of the things that
come up through the course of that investigation. So there
could be other factors here, but just off the cuff,
hearing the story, comparing it to things that I've experienced

(01:17:04):
myself in my work over the last you know, a
couple of decades. I can tell you now, this sounds
like classic demonic infestation as the direct result of some
kind of occult dabbling, or or maybe not so much dabbling.
It sounds like it might be very serious occult practice.

Speaker 6 (01:17:22):
Yea, I'd be.

Speaker 4 (01:17:22):
Curious to see. Number one, how old the property the
house was, the property, the history of the property. Can
you tell us what.

Speaker 10 (01:17:32):
Hundreds of years.

Speaker 4 (01:17:34):
It was a complete loss? The house was a complete loss.

Speaker 10 (01:17:38):
No, And weirdly enough, I'm not sure if they changed
their mind about it, but it kind of freaked me
out afterwards after the fire. The entire family just has
this weird obsession because you know, they all acknowledge that
there's things off for reference for all of some believe God.
Me and my Beyonce are practicing Catholics. I'm a seminarian

(01:17:59):
in the in a sacramental movement right now.

Speaker 11 (01:18:01):
Hell yeah, welcome, Welcome to the You're amongst friends, Yeah,
I call that right now.

Speaker 10 (01:18:14):
So yeah, I've been kind of interested in this stuff
in a while, but not like this. Obviously, this was
like you know, not something I ever wanted to be
around for, but it's yeah, there apparently was some pretty
severe stuff. There's also severe trauma in the house as well,
with like abuse going back generations in her family of

(01:18:37):
like you know, doors that only walk from the outside
and still have like chains towards what literally like Yeah,
I think like like her great grandfather was like chained
up or whatever, is like punishment or whatever. And I
also just want to throw out there too, the timing
of things you mentioned, you know, beyond coincidence. She had

(01:19:00):
those bad thoughts about hurting herself, and then after those
seemed to have gone away, she got cancer in her shoulder.
She beat cancer, and then two weeks later was when
the house fire happened.

Speaker 12 (01:19:15):
In her life.

Speaker 10 (01:19:16):
Yeah, like one one way after another.

Speaker 3 (01:19:21):
It sounds a classic attachment to me. Now to your
question about you know, not wanting her to be you know,
stuck or putting you know, some kind of limbo somewhere,
because clearly these are not you know, these are not
good situations and definitely not good conditions in which to
die under. What I'd like for you to do is

(01:19:42):
to email the church. You read the mind, Yeah, email
the church, Like the personal name, you know, the full
name if possible, and we're we will we will say
a mass for the repose of her soul and a
divine office as well, and we we we stream, you know,
we stream this. I don't I don't share names online,

(01:20:05):
so I won't give the name. But if you could
give us the name so we can put it on
the altar. And it's like, yeah, this is the best
way to handle that kind of thing, because you know,
the dead are most susceptible. The good news is that
the dead are most susceptible to our ore to to
the grace that we cultivate. When we cultivate it for

(01:20:28):
them on their behalf, that's kind of our job, you know,
it's the kind of the work that we do. You know,
as Christians. That's something that's been forgotten by numerous churches.
But you know, Catholics and Orthodox fortunately have never forgotten
their responsibility to the dead, and they don't just cease
being part of the church just because they're no longer
with us, So you know, it's it's it's an important

(01:20:50):
part of I think, the spiritual life of the church
and helping people to give them the best opportunity God's
grace is still very much present. God's grace is very
much available. And even if a person dies as the
result what just sounds like here, you know, just again
going off of just what I know from what you
told me, even a person who dies as the result

(01:21:14):
of a demonic attachment and uh or you know, it
suffers one. Even if it were to be a possession,
which I don't think this was, this would qualify, but
definitely an oppression I think, you know, does not have
any bearing on what happens to them after after they
they they die. That you know, you could die under possession.

(01:21:36):
The devil doesn't win your soul. That's a that's a misconception.
What it really comes down to is it interferes with
your own understanding and your own process and your own
work of salvation. And that's the real danger to it.
But it's not as though you can sell your soul
or that you lose your soul because now you you know,
you're you're, you're, you're being attacked by some demonic presence.

(01:21:58):
So this is not beyond for for her sake, this
is not beyond the Church's ability to resolve and.

Speaker 5 (01:22:07):
Comfort.

Speaker 6 (01:22:07):
I just had some comfort to this, I mean, it
ties in with what you were saying in the last hour,
which is that you know, we are currently living in
linear time, and so we may experience this kind of
in our own time and space. Yeah, the tragedy, that
the idea that someone's trapped and all of that. But
but eternity is outside of time and space. And the

(01:22:30):
good news is if you care enough to worry about her,
how much more does God care?

Speaker 8 (01:22:38):
You know?

Speaker 5 (01:22:38):
And so again this is this is the kind of
in the Gospel.

Speaker 6 (01:22:46):
This is the constant refrain, you know, in the New Testament,
in the Early Church, the fact that we still pray
for people in our masses, and.

Speaker 5 (01:22:56):
And we have a concern for people.

Speaker 6 (01:22:57):
I have a concern and I don't know you, and
I've non't met this person, and I have a genuine concern.

Speaker 5 (01:23:03):
How much more does God care about those things?

Speaker 6 (01:23:06):
So, you know, just to give some comfort in the
eternal sense, all is well, you know, despite the trauma
and and and the effects that we that we experience.

Speaker 3 (01:23:16):
Now yeah, yeah, so I would say you pray for them.
I mean, you don't even need a priest for that,
you know. I mean, and you know you're already a
seminary or halfway there. So you know, you pray for them,
you pray for pray for the living you know that
are still sort of maybe attached to this property in
an unhealthy way, and pray for you know, those who

(01:23:39):
have become victim of this. Your you know, your fiance's cousin.
So I would say, you know that's that's your your
primary job here. And then you know, like I said,
email the church office at Nickeoland dot org and I
C H O L E A N. You can just
go to the website Esotericcatholic dot org and use the
contact andmation there and let us know in any other

(01:24:03):
details you want. Again, I don't share them publicly, it
will be a.

Speaker 4 (01:24:05):
Completely po Yeah, I'd be I'd be curious to get
more details as to you know, where did this happen
and we can reasure the house because obviously if they're
still trying to live on the property, that's not going
to be healthy. No, there's obviously abuse that's happened there
and it may not be healthy for them to stay.

Speaker 3 (01:24:22):
If you if you want more guidance on this off
the air, also leave your contact information and uh and uh,
you know we'll we'll reach out and see what you know,
because I'm sure there's probably things that you don't want
to share publicly. But you know, we'll be more than
happy to help any way that we can, because it

(01:24:43):
sounds like an extremely serious situation and perhaps it's not
completely over, you know, from the sound of it. It
sounds like there's still members of the family that are
perhaps involved here in some capacity. So yeah, I mean,
it's it's definitely a a serious situation, and I do
appreciate you calling in with this so that you can

(01:25:06):
share kind of the reality of this work, you know,
because I think, like I said, I think people think
it's all fun and games, and it's not.

Speaker 4 (01:25:15):
There's not fun and games. And sometimes we use people.

Speaker 3 (01:25:17):
Yeah, very often we do because people don't take it
seriously or they you know, and then world views get
in the way and you know, you're not the right
denomination or whatever, so they don't want help, you know,
all sorts of possibilities, but it really to see the
tragedy over and over again is what makes that this
particular work so difficult because we can only help such
a small number and sometimes it's resources, sometimes it's time,

(01:25:41):
but a lot of times it's just because people just
don't want to help, and you know, you can only
go so far. So this is a terrible situation. But
we can do the best that we can to make
it better and help you any way that we can.
So please reach out to us. Okay, I very much sure.

Speaker 7 (01:26:01):
Before you end up, if you would like to go
to the YouTube feed one of our moderators had posted
a prayer, then you could say, that's one of the
best things you can do as of right now. Yes,
you can just do it. That's what we do on
our investigations, and we've had a lot of success with it.

Speaker 3 (01:26:19):
Yeah, the eternal rests granted to them, o Lord, and
let perpetual life shine upon them. The souls of all
the faithful departed, through the mercy of God rest and
pe That prayer is really the most powerful, single, most
powerful thing to helping a potentially unrested soul. And you
would say it for anybody even if even if they
died in the most perfect circumstances in the grace of God.

(01:26:41):
You know, if everything was just right as reign in
their in their entire life, and they died nice and peacefully,
you'd still say.

Speaker 5 (01:26:47):
That it's in our funeral rights. It is. Yeah, so
when we say funerals, the prayers in the I mean
the press of the faithful.

Speaker 3 (01:26:53):
The goodness is you're Catholic, so you have all the tools,
you know.

Speaker 8 (01:26:57):
The.

Speaker 4 (01:26:59):
Best tool for that property and start doing anything to Yeah,
I would, I mean if if offers some help, if
if they want to, I mean, if it gets to
the point where they're either you know, it doesn't sound
like they want to, but maybe in the future they
will if.

Speaker 3 (01:27:13):
There's ever some concern there, you know, let us know.
But but yeah, I mean, we are not welcome, unfortunate,
so prayer is going to be how you got to
handle it at this point, you know.

Speaker 6 (01:27:27):
And even if you thought, oh, I can stealk onto
the property when they're not there and throw some holy
water around, No, no, don't do that. First well, I
mean obviously, I mean priests can do that, but really,
the essence of blessing of a home, for example, it.

Speaker 5 (01:27:41):
Requires the.

Speaker 6 (01:27:44):
I was going to say the man of the house
and be very archaic, but it demands the invitation from
the person who's how home it is to the priest
to bless it. So, in other words, you can't really
bless a home against the wishes.

Speaker 10 (01:27:59):
Of the own.

Speaker 3 (01:28:00):
Yeah, that's exactly right. So there's only so much you
can do there, but prayers where you can help. You
can help at least the victims here, okay, And at
that point, you know, prayer becomes the most powerful tool.
But yeah, reach out to us, okay, and you can
talk behind the scenes and see if there's anything else
we can do. But thank you so much for your Yeah,
thank you, thank you, take care, have a good night.

(01:28:24):
Thank you again for your call. Yeah, I mean that's
a great example. Okay, that's a great example of the
dangers of of the paranormal. Okay. Now, don't think that
you have to be some expert practitioner of the occult
to generate a problem like what they just described. I
mean this this was the grandmother. Was the grandmother that

(01:28:47):
he was talking about.

Speaker 4 (01:28:48):
I believe so that that's in psychiatric here.

Speaker 3 (01:28:50):
Okay, psychiatric I mean, oh, the ant I'm sorry, yeah,
the ant. If you know, she she she might have
been involved in witchcraft or some kind of thing, got
involved in dark practices. It's all possible, and maybe she
became very proficient at it. But you know that can
be no more or less dangerous than you just picking

(01:29:14):
up some book and playing around with this stuff yourself, okay,
just because you think it's cool or just because you
think it's it's you know, exciting, because something might happen,
like people that play around with with with Wiji boards
and you know, at parties just because they're just looking
for some entertainment. I mean nine, not ten times. You
know nothing's going to happen. But you know, every now

(01:29:35):
and then, in the right circumstances, in the right environment,
with the right kind of people, something can be triggered.
And then once you open that can of worms, it's
extremely difficult to close it again. And you just don't
want to put yourself in that kind of situation. Okay,
So make sure that as you you know, go through
your spiritual lives, all of you listening right now, take

(01:29:58):
this stuff seriously. Remember I didn't get into this and
throw my whole life at it because it's a bunch
of bullshit, all right. I did this because I saw
people who needed help. There was nobody helping them, there
was nobody that knew how to help them, and I
was in a I was given a particular place through
the grace or mercy of God, I guess to be

(01:30:20):
able to be that person to help. I wish I
could do a whole lot more than I am able to,
but overall, we've done some good over the years, and
hopefully shows like this do some good and maybe we
can give some peace to this family in whatever limited
way that we can. Mass is very powerful, though, and
saying a mass for a deceased person is very powerful.

(01:30:43):
Most of the time when we encounter what seems to
the lay person to be a demonic event is really
nothing more than a very unrested person. And then we
can just simply, you know, go in there, do what
we can do, and then take that information with us,
go home and say a mass for them, sometimes a
couple of masses, a divine office or whatever, and the

(01:31:05):
problem resolves on that basis alone. That's how powerful it is,
and that's how useful it is. And I'm grateful that
he's a seminary and with the movement because that will
help him a lot too. You know, it would be
something that he already has the spiritual foundation and the
vocation to do this kind of work. So I mean
he already is by virtue of that taking it seriously.

(01:31:27):
So it's always nice to talk to someone like that.
Hope he stays in touch.

Speaker 4 (01:31:30):
I hope the people will property have a change of heart.

Speaker 3 (01:31:32):
Yeah, me too, But you can't count on that. So
what you do is your preyer run too. Yep, that's
what you do. Okay, if you've got a question, you
can call in. Their lines are open right now. So
I know that there was another caller, a couple of
callers that were calling in the first hour. If you're
still with us, please give.

Speaker 5 (01:31:47):
Us a call.

Speaker 3 (01:31:48):
The number is now on the screen two seven five
four nineteen eighty three, and we'd love to take you on. Okay,
let's go. I guess, Brandon, what's try to get us
our first question from the chat and we'll keep going
down the list.

Speaker 7 (01:32:05):
So the first one comes from where the is? The
first one I could find comes from April to go
to discussion from the first hour segment where do we
go while we wait for Jesus to return and restore
our bodies?

Speaker 3 (01:32:18):
Well again, you know you're kind of talking about a
linear time kind of question in a nonlinear time kind
of problem. Okay, So you know, again, from God's perspective,
there is everything's already resolved, right, I mean, there's no
fallen ward. It's already done. Okay, from God's perspective, it's

(01:32:39):
already a complete process. It's already reached its point. It's
its culmination, and the cross does finish. It's finished. But
but we haven't caught up with it because where we
are linear, and even though his grace can extend through
the linear, the primary reason why we don't see him
as he is is because we just haven't caught up

(01:33:01):
with the rest of the story. And so you know,
where do we go? Well again, that's that's that Bardough. Okay,
you will if you have attachments, you know, if you
did not die or seek the grace of Christ and
cultivate the grace of Christ in life. And by cultivation,

(01:33:23):
I don't mean that you're actually cultivating his grace. You're
cultivating the relationship that leads to the reception of his grace,
which is always free by the way, it's always freely given.
But the work you have to do is the relationship.
That's that's where your effort comes in. You know, assuming
you didn't do any of those things, well, that's when
you kind of create, you know, a reality of your

(01:33:45):
own making, and that's where that's what you experience. It's
not a place, it's not a time. It's an experience
that endures until you make the decision not to. Now,
maybe it takes grace to wake up from that, and
maybe you never wake up from that, but the fact
is that's kind of what happens to you. So is
to to get to April's question. The assumption here though,

(01:34:07):
is that you talk about some of that has already
you know, attained to salvation, and for most people that
means from a Catholic perspective, and we're give a Catholic
answer here. Now. Theologically, most people are not going to
get purgatory, right, most people are not going to die
in a state of perfect gray. So purgatory becomes the
word that we use for that stage. It's not but

(01:34:30):
it's not a place because it's not in time exactly.
It's not a place and it's not a time. It's
an experience of realization. Okay, usually that the medieval church
was wrong.

Speaker 6 (01:34:41):
You know, Luther was correct to say talking of years
in purgatory is insane. Yes, correct, and the Catholic Church
corrected itself on that. Well, actually, no, it didn't. It
didn't need to correct itself. It never actually taught this idea.
It just evil men made money on the back of it.
So it came back to its senses. But for most

(01:35:03):
of us, it's going to be purgatory. But I think
the question behind the question Bishop is there's a long
standing tradition between Protestants and Catholics on this that differs.
Even in that prayer that we just had, you know,
I Protestants would say may not. They wouldn't say soul,
They the faithfully partied rest in peace and rise in glory,

(01:35:24):
because they have this idea that, you know, we will
just sleep in the earth until the last day and
then we're all resurrected together, whereas Catholics have never taught
that we believe in the immortality of the soul, and therefore,
because the soul can't die, it doesn't just rest in
the ground until the last day.

Speaker 5 (01:35:44):
It continues to be in the presence of God.

Speaker 3 (01:35:48):
But we have to kind of qualify that because I
think some of the issue is and this is I
think some of the challenges of this show because a
lot of the questions that we're getting here are coming
from some Catholic perspective, sometimes Protestant perspective, sometimes from my
students on their metaphysical esoteric mysticism perspective, and this all

(01:36:09):
gets blended into a kind of like wash of ideas,
when in reality, I have to usually qualify how we're
answering this because there is a theological answer that's not
always consistent with the metaphysical one or the mystical one,
and so we kind of have to sort of qualify that.
So I think what we also have to remember here

(01:36:34):
is that and I have to emphasize this because I
don't think Christians really get this. Shayel didn't go anywhere. Okay,
It isn't like it was some outdated idea that Christians rejected.
It was this is the abode of the dead that
Jesus descends into. When they say descended into Hell, Hell

(01:36:54):
was is schel. It's the same thing. This is why
you know, Haites, it's the same thing. But we we
got the idea of Gehenna as now that's Hell. So
this is why it's kind of like the harrowing Hell
doesn't make sense anymore to Christians because they lost the
meaning of the word due to bad semantics. And you know,

(01:37:17):
new ideas, and and and and and and people thinking
that they know what they're talking about when they don't.
Shale didn't go anywhere. But you have to remember what
shale was. It was this this state of in in
Jewish times, permanent unconsciousness. Okay, it was sort of like

(01:37:38):
being nothing or barely something. And that wasn't a soul,
It was a spirit, or you could even say the
other way around, because in those times, soul is kind
of how we use the word spirit today, and spirit
is kind of how we use the word soul. Shit
the shades. Yes, let's look at those Greek terms again, right,
Remember the soul is the psyche, the self, all right,

(01:38:05):
the the identity, and and then the spirit is like
that's the numa, right, that is that the essence of
the life force of God. And so in this sense
you know that, like, let's let's just get rid of
soul and spirit because they've been interchangeably used for so
long and they get so confusing. Let's just let's just

(01:38:26):
dispense with them and just get into the meanings for
the sake of clarity. The life force returns to God. Okay,
So when people say, oh, you know you sold your
soul to the devil when I say you can't because
it doesn't belong to you. What I'm talking about is
what animates you, what makes you alive, That belongs to God,

(01:38:47):
and only God can ever have it. And it doesn't
even belong to you. That's not even for you to have.
You would only get that at the resurrection for all
e way.

Speaker 5 (01:38:58):
That is exactly why the Church not support assisted dying.

Speaker 6 (01:39:02):
Yes, yeah, because that's why, because we don't believe it
belongs to us, this idea that oh I can decide
when I want to die, you know, as much as
there's also I mean, I'm not discounting suffering and all
the other issues that are released to ut but fundamentally
that's it's not because the Church is mean. It's because
we just don't believe it's asked to dispose of.

Speaker 3 (01:39:20):
The complex issue there there's you know, that is definitely
one of the arguments that are presented against that type
of right to die philosophy. And we can talk about
that tonight too if you guys want to. But so
that returns to God all right, immediately upon death. So
it's sort of true, you see why, it's sort of

(01:39:40):
true when people say Grandma's in heaven, well yeah, yeah,
if you're talking about just that one part of Grandma,
the thing that animated her, yeah, that goes back to God.
But that doesn't mean it's her, and it doesn't mean
that she's aware of herself. Okay, that would be the psyche.
Now where does the psyche go? If if if the
numa goes back to God, if the life force goes

(01:40:03):
back to God, then where does the idea of self go?
That's the danger. That's where we talk about Bardeaux and
Shaol and Haites and all this stuff, because that is
not eternal. It is not eternal. In fact, even in
the resurrection it does not It won't be restored in
the same way that it is now, which is what

(01:40:24):
we were kind of alluding to in the first Hour
when we said that one must give their ego up
to Christ. Right, that's part of the pace of salvation
we take Christ. So Christ replaces that idea of self
in a person who attains salvation. Now, that's not something
that is easily attainable for someone without the help of

(01:40:47):
his grace. So if a person dies in his grace,
then that is taking care of by virtue of the
fact that they cultivated it. If, however, they resisted it
and died poorly, then at that point the person would
have to work it out. And that's what the church
terms purgatory, which is burning off the imperfections that are

(01:41:09):
still standing in the way of a person who's got
enough grace to be saved, but has it worked it
out enough to enter the perfection of heaven. And so
it's a multi layered process. And the reason this is
a difficult question to answer is because you can't say
where does a person go when they die? Because what
part of them are you talking about? A person is

(01:41:31):
not one thing, and at death all three things go
dip different ways. The body just rots away, all right.
The life force returns to God. The psyche is what
we typically refer to as the ghosts, all right, And
I use the word spirit for that. The agents would
have used the word soul for that. And that's why
I get so confusing with semantics. We have to clarify

(01:41:52):
just with definitions. It makes it easier. So the psyche
is what you're trying to worry about, and the psyche
is what you want say, because that's the sense of
self and that's where your identity is going to be.
If you align yourself to Christ, well then you're with him,
and that's the beatific vision that's going to heaven. If
you still retain your attachments, then you become whatever those
attachments are now. Not just because you have attachments doesn't

(01:42:14):
mean all hope is lost. You could be attached to love,
and yet at death that psyche becomes love, and it
will continue in that reality and produce an illusion of
love that is actually quite pleasant. That would be one
of the heaven gatti, or even the demigod realm Gatti,

(01:42:34):
which is less blissful but still better than what we
experience as human beings. But besides the point, purgatory would
be working out that psyche. Okay, Shayol would be where
the psyche just disintegrates. But either way, at the resurrection
of the dead, your sense of self as a personal identity,

(01:42:57):
as something separate from everyone else in God, that will
cease to exist regardless. That's what does perish and shale
or what's been perishing shale.

Speaker 6 (01:43:07):
Which is why there's no marriage in heaven exactly. Know
all of this is in the scripture. You know, there's
no special relationships in the sense in the heavenly realm,
because because we're perfected and we have perfect communion.

Speaker 3 (01:43:20):
Precisely right very well said Okay, we got another call
here from the nine to seven three area code in
New Jersey. Hello, you are on the air.

Speaker 12 (01:43:31):
Hi everyone, This is Lindsay from New Jersey. I had
written in my question, but then Father Chris suggested that
I should call in. So here's my story. My daughter
went to college last year and she's living in a
dorm that's about one hundred years old. It burned. The
original building had burned down, and they rebuilt this dorm

(01:43:53):
one hundred years ago with the bricks from the burned
down building. Everything was great for the first couple of months,
and then things started moving in her room. Who would
leave things in a certain spot at night and go
to sleep and wake up and they'd be in different places.
It seemed harmless, but it still freaked her out because
you don't want your things moving around your room. We

(01:44:15):
didn't know what to do, so my husband went to
the church, looked to our priests, and he said, you
know there's good, there's evil. I can bless fault for you.
You can say the prayer of Saint Michael, the prayer
for anyone that might be unrested, who's floating around the dorm.
So we did that. The activity in her room stopped immediately,

(01:44:36):
but I would say maybe a week or two later
she got a horrendous headache and it has been there
for the past five months. She's gone to therapy, she
has gone to the emergency room three times. She's been
on all the migraine cocktails, multiple prescription medications. She's had
two MRIs, an MRA, a CT scan fled work an

(01:44:58):
ECG shows any medical reason why she should be in pain. Obviously,
we're not giving up. I'm looking for a medical reason.
We do have an appointment with a headache specialist, but
we couldn't get in until October. But I'm wondering, could
there be any relation to whatever it was that we
tried to push out of her room. I can't help

(01:45:20):
but wonder with the timing.

Speaker 4 (01:45:23):
It does seem odd. Can I ask? It could be environmental?
You've got a hundred year old building that I guess
maybe partially burnt down or completely burnt down, and that
was rebuilt.

Speaker 12 (01:45:36):
After And that's what I wondered.

Speaker 4 (01:45:38):
Right after several months being there for this summer.

Speaker 12 (01:45:42):
Okay, she's been home all summer. So she came home
mid May and I thought, Okay, maybe it was mold
or you know, like you said, just the old building
and the symptoms would go away. And they haven't. She's
been like this the entire summer.

Speaker 4 (01:45:57):
So wherever she is, she's experiencing this now on her
level of exposure, if it is something toxic, just throwing
that out there, something to think about.

Speaker 3 (01:46:05):
Yeah, and you never want to rule out that possibility.
I'm glad you're still sticking with yes, looking for medical solutions,
because even if there is a paranormal catalyst to this,
oftentimes paranormal catalysts still produce normal physical reactions that can
be treated with normal physical means. One thing that I

(01:46:25):
will say from my own life that might be helpful
here is that I never had any headaches at all
until I had my first real kind of spiritual experience
supernatural paranormal we call it what you will experience that
sort of opened up my mind in such a way

(01:46:47):
that the physiological reaction to this after the fact was
constant chronic migraines. That would mean years and years of
this that never went away. They would have times where
they were better in times where they were worse, but
they they were always there.

Speaker 6 (01:47:06):
Since that point, I've always had a headache after exorcisms.

Speaker 3 (01:47:12):
They will we always do, I we do, and then
we agree the tacos and that. But but let me
give you a little bit of something to try, or
you can talk to the doctor about this and see
what they think. You know, it's something that's worth trying.

(01:47:32):
Me is it's worked for me. The first thing that
I would suggest is is magnesium drops. You can get
them at Whole Foods. I don't I don't know. I'm
sure where you are you have a Whole Foods. You
probably get on Amazon too. It's like a four hundred
I think it's four hundred milligram drop. If I'm not mistaken.
Maybe Tracy, if she's in the chat, can just confirm that.

(01:47:56):
But what I do is I take that U. It's
a it's it's a bottle would dropper. They have them
in a little like supplement section at Whole Foods. And
I put four drops into my morning Vitamin c UH
every day. And I will tell you that has been
the most the single most powerful solution to my migraines

(01:48:19):
that I have ever experienced. Another thing that worked for
me was CBD oil, full spectrum CBD oil. Some places
that's hard to get. Some places it's not a problem.
It is legal as far as as far as I know,
it's legal all throughout the United.

Speaker 4 (01:48:34):
States, dependent on the level.

Speaker 3 (01:48:36):
Yes, now you can't take it on like a cruise
or something because some of the countries that the ship
goes to, UH it is illegal and and they don't
let you bring anything on that could become a violation
at port. But magnesium is, you know, clearly legal. So

(01:48:57):
I have found like taking a CBD full spectrum CBD
oil in the evenings before I go to bed, because
it does make you sleepy, and then the magnesium in
the morning when you wake up. I have found that
to completely solve my headache problem, which I do believe,

(01:49:17):
by the way, even though I'm giving you a very
physiological solution or potential solution, hopefully, I still will will
will absolutely testify that these headaches are the cause of
being spiritually opened by the things that have happened to
me in my life, which is very likely what's going
on with her. So I would say that, yes, they

(01:49:39):
are related, but it doesn't mean you can't solve them
medically or maybe just by you know, trying different things.
Most people, particularly if you drink most people are deficient
and magnesium. They don't have anywhere near enough. And the
only thing I'll be be mindful of take it with
a you know, take it with breakfast. You can upset
your stomach until you get used to it. I have

(01:50:01):
a very sensitive stomach. I've never really had a problem
with magnesium though, so it's it's pretty gentle that the
product I recommended. It will make you definitely more peaceful.
It will help you sleep better, and it definitely reduces
stress and anxiety if if you're prone to those things.
So there are multiple benefits here, and it should even
help even if she has to go back to this

(01:50:21):
building and live amongst these.

Speaker 4 (01:50:23):
Uh electric electrolytes.

Speaker 8 (01:50:27):
Building on.

Speaker 4 (01:50:31):
The changes. I would also recommend some electrolyte powder to
put in bottled water. She can keep that in the
dorm with her and drink up to two or.

Speaker 3 (01:50:39):
Three a day dehydrated.

Speaker 4 (01:50:41):
It will give her magnesium.

Speaker 5 (01:50:43):
Lindsay, what's her what's her spiritual life?

Speaker 3 (01:50:47):
Like you know, I mean, is she connects to.

Speaker 12 (01:50:54):
She did CCD. Her whole life need confirmation, and I've
actually been pushing the church on her. I said to her,
if you're in this much scene, I would literally be
trying anything at this point, why not come to Mass
with me? I go every Sunday. Why not come with me?
Why not?

Speaker 11 (01:51:11):
I would recommend that.

Speaker 7 (01:51:14):
You have to find.

Speaker 6 (01:51:17):
Yeah, well, certainly the right priest. But confession is really
where she should go.

Speaker 8 (01:51:22):
Now.

Speaker 6 (01:51:22):
I'm not saying she'd done anything wrong, by the way,
and by the way, being possessed is not a sin, right.

Speaker 8 (01:51:28):
So.

Speaker 3 (01:51:30):
She hasn't reached that place. So I think we're okay,
We're not.

Speaker 5 (01:51:33):
We're not saying that anyway. But it's want to be
very clear for you.

Speaker 6 (01:51:37):
And obviously for the audience that I'm not saying that
you know, it's because you're a sinner, you've got a headache,
That's not it at all. I'm just saying, Yeah, it
is the sacrament that is most likely to bring a
person to peace, and that can only help.

Speaker 4 (01:51:54):
That would certainly be good for her.

Speaker 6 (01:51:56):
Yeah, finding a good confessor can be a challenge, but
or you know, preparing for it, especially if she's not
done it as a regular practice. But I would just say,
you know, basic sort of diary like reflection on one's
life and you know, not just our shortcomings, but you
know on some of some of the good things we
could have done but didn't do. I think they're a

(01:52:18):
good thing to take to to to God and to confess.
And because it's different from therapy. Therapy is great and
pro therapy, but confession ends with absolution and go, go
and move on, and that's a very different message to therapy.

Speaker 3 (01:52:37):
Yeah, I agree with all that, we both I agree
with all of that. I think, you know, and this
is a multi dimensional approach. You know, I don't think
there's ever one solution. I think it has to be holistic.
I think most of these these problems are best resolved holistically.

Speaker 6 (01:52:53):
Body mind and spirit are not separate. And Bishop Bryan's
been making that point this show.

Speaker 3 (01:53:00):
They all are Yeah. Yeah, so try those things and
you know, and then let us know, you know, after
you've tried a few. I mean, I mean, we can't
make her go to confession. If she doesn't. I mean
a lot of people are uncomfortable with it. You can
encourage it, you know. Definitely getting to mass would be
a good step in the right direction and see where

(01:53:20):
that takes takes her. It could be it could inspire
her to want to go deeper into the faith. You know,
if she's willing to at least try it, you know,
that would be best, you know, to have that as
a component working in her life.

Speaker 4 (01:53:35):
However, get it from both sides.

Speaker 3 (01:53:36):
You know, if you can't get that to happen, at
least try some of these other techniques. Like I said,
magnesium works, wonders for headaches, and as far as the building, okay,
and what might be going on there, I would say
the same prayer that we gave the last caller, you know,
eternal rest grant to them, O Lord, you know, typical

(01:53:56):
Catholic prayer. Most Catholics know it by heart. Have her
recite that. She doesn't even have to, you know, have
a prayer life to be able to utilize this. It's
something that she's doing on behalf of everyone else's, not
even for herself. But you know, a lot of times
if there is a spiritual disturbance that's causing a physiological

(01:54:18):
response like this, which is very possible, I can't say
definitively over the air whether or not it is that,
but I would say it's definitely possible, maybe even probable.
In many cases. I would say then that by virtue
of maybe she's sensitive, maybe she's a good candidate for connection.

(01:54:39):
And if there are disturbances in that building, unrested people,
they will latch onto the one person they feel will
get could get their attention. And sometimes if there's a
psychic block in the sense that the person isn't ready
to see them or experience them, and then it comes

(01:55:00):
across to some kind of physiological response, which is usually
a painful type of reaction, and by doing this saying
prayer for the dead, helping them to move on, it
can release the pressure that's causing that physiological response, assuming
that it is. The good news is it doesn't harm

(01:55:21):
anything to do so, even if it's not related, and
this might be a way to find out. If she's
able to quiet down the building and she still has
the headaches, then chances are it's perhaps related to either
being opened up and now she can't close it back,
or it's something else that's going on. It could be
just you know, mineral deficiency, maybe you know, not hydrating enough.

(01:55:45):
Most people don't. There's lots of factors that could be
contributing here, But I would say it's probably a lot
of different things. You might have been just vulnerable at
the right time for the right type of spiritual disturbance
to interfere with her, causing this to now be become
a chronic issue. But give her some peace of mind.
It is not without the chance to resolve. I mean,

(01:56:07):
I am a testament to that. I had that exact
same experience and the exact same kind of reaction to it,
and I'm headache free now. I mean I maybe get
one or two headaches a year, and they're very mild.

Speaker 12 (01:56:22):
Oh wow.

Speaker 3 (01:56:23):
Yeah, yeah, And I used to have them chronically all
the time to the point of the aura. I don't
know if she gets the visual aura. Yeah, yeah, that's
the worst. And I can tell you right now those
were always the worst during the spiritually heightened moments. So
it's kind of like the body trying to say, look,
you need to see this. So what you see as

(01:56:44):
you see blindness, you know, it's almost like as if
it's archetypically telling you. You know, you're not paying attention,
so you know you need to open your eyes, and
of course it blocks out your vision. It's almost like
temporary blindness for a while. It's a type of seizure,
really is what it is. And it's kind of like,
this is just how our bodies are. Frail, broken, fallen
bodies try to respond to data points that we're really

(01:57:07):
not supposed to come in contact with, but every now
and then we do.

Speaker 6 (01:57:10):
And uh, maybe maybe the if it takes, if you've
got a headache that's sufficiently bad enough, you'll try anything
to get rid of it.

Speaker 5 (01:57:18):
And maybe that's what it takes to get someone to
the confessional booth. It could yeah, and autom mass, automasks
or engage with their faith.

Speaker 3 (01:57:26):
I would just at this point, I would try. I
would just try to encourage her to come to mask,
go to communion, Go to communion, okay, and uh and
and and let her let her receive at least that
uh and and then it could inspire her to take
it deeper. Confession would be best. You know, maybe mention it,

(01:57:46):
but I wouldn't push it too hard because you don't
want to scare them off either or yeah, because then
it just becomes feeling oppressive. And and you know, the
church shouldn't feel oppressive. It should feast her. Yeah, you
know right, Yeah, this this could be a way to
kind of deal with that. Another thing that also helps me,
very simple is just get an ice pack and keep

(01:58:07):
it on wherever part of the head she gets it
the most. For me, it's like right here, so I
put ice pack right here, and then I'll put it
once it's been there for about five to ten minutes,
I'll put on the back of my neck and that
sometimes takes care of it too. These are all different
strategies she can try, but please, you know, let us
know how it goes. Call back into the show in
a few weeks, let us know if any of this

(01:58:28):
has been helpful, and if not, you know, maybe we
can if you want to talk to us, you can
also you know, email the church at office at nick
Land dot org. And if there's other things here that
you want to discuss off the air, we'd be more
than happy to talk to you as well.

Speaker 12 (01:58:42):
Right, Thank you guys so much. I appreciate it.

Speaker 3 (01:58:44):
Oh, thank you, and we'll pray for you guys.

Speaker 4 (01:58:48):
Okay, absolutely, thank you, ye.

Speaker 8 (01:58:51):
Bye, thank you bye bye.

Speaker 5 (01:58:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:58:53):
Another great question and hopefully something that can be helpful,
you know, because there's a lot of people there. So
let's take our x break here before we get into it,
and uh, we'll take more of your questions when we
come back and go away.

Speaker 2 (01:59:06):
Dubbing cold song one to joy night.

Speaker 13 (01:59:14):
Setting fire to it all.

Speaker 2 (01:59:17):
You know these plays a go now.

Speaker 3 (01:59:21):
This building is prompting to.

Speaker 2 (01:59:23):
The world, don't think the big it's something.

Speaker 13 (01:59:29):
Baby, y'alla, it's got.

Speaker 1 (01:59:31):
A little.

Speaker 2 (01:59:33):
You'll know the lady and go. This puilding is promping
to don't come on.

Speaker 1 (01:59:42):
A dun.

Speaker 5 (01:59:44):
Baby, y'alla.

Speaker 2 (01:59:45):
It's gonna bundy now.

Speaker 1 (01:59:55):
Now must feel like playing up through days nice your

(02:00:34):
birthday to stop is going to kiss me?

Speaker 2 (02:00:41):
You love these planks a going with this Burstain is
coming to the girl.

Speaker 9 (02:00:49):
Don't think that we can stop in Uh this baby,
I love, it's gone and go.

Speaker 2 (02:00:57):
Don't know these plagues and go in. The building is
coming to don't come.

Speaker 3 (02:01:09):
He's got a budget.

Speaker 2 (02:01:11):
How now.

Speaker 1 (02:01:34):
How mm hm.

Speaker 2 (02:02:10):
H m hmmm. Isn't changed spid thing the way I
walk away?

Speaker 13 (02:02:24):
I raised im by choosed into sunder.

Speaker 5 (02:02:33):
Here at them saying all day.

Speaker 9 (02:02:37):
Singing bids to say praise lady.

Speaker 2 (02:02:40):
How is that same way.

Speaker 9 (02:02:54):
If for some another day my to scream and n
not that I ever chose to change, didn't ever.

Speaker 2 (02:03:04):
Want to.

Speaker 13 (02:03:07):
Scacuse me love some day a simple boy, don't change anything.

Speaker 2 (02:04:20):
I don't know how could the lashed against the tape.

Speaker 1 (02:04:30):
Maybe what was may be choice.

Speaker 3 (02:04:33):
So they are to say beat, I know how to say.

Speaker 9 (02:04:50):
If the son another day I do scream and not done,
I would choice to change.

Speaker 2 (02:05:00):
Didn't even want to read up sudden your same old way.

Speaker 13 (02:05:07):
You cannot without the same mistake.

Speaker 1 (02:05:10):
You can't leave it over high, Oh lady.

Speaker 5 (02:05:16):
Said not the.

Speaker 1 (02:05:23):
Said, tell me where.

Speaker 4 (02:05:25):
Your simple.

Speaker 2 (02:06:48):
Support the.

Speaker 3 (02:07:29):
Welcome back everyone to the final hour of Vestiges after Dark.
We've been having some great questions and calls tonight. What
a great I mean, it feels like a real show.
You guys have been fantastic. Thank you so much all
of you for making this such a wonderful show tonight.
You know, this is our favorite kind of show to do,

(02:07:49):
open lines, open topics, your it's your show, you know,
and we do this for all of you, and we
thank you all. Thank you to all of our super
chats out there and all of you who donate to
keep the show on the air. We really appreciate that
as well. And this next hour here we'll be taking
more questions of course, and you can also continue to
call into the show. Lines are open right now two

(02:08:11):
O seven five four four nineteen eighty three. That's two
O seven five four four nineteen eighty three. And when
we come back, more of your questions answered. Don't go away.

Speaker 1 (02:09:19):
Exactly is.

Speaker 3 (02:09:32):
A calling in from the five five to nine area

(02:10:04):
code in California. I believe hello, you are on the
air with Vestiges after dark.

Speaker 8 (02:10:10):
Hello, guys, how's it going?

Speaker 3 (02:10:12):
Dot? Hey is I.

Speaker 8 (02:10:16):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (02:10:17):
Okay, okay, you're a long time I recognize the voice.

Speaker 3 (02:10:21):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 8 (02:10:24):
So I have a couple of questions, two completely different questions,
and it's up to you, guys, whether you have the
time and would want to answer them. But the first one,
I'm just gonna uh it's gonna be like a general
outline of like my topic. And I apologize for signing
a bit selfage, but it's something I'm struggling with. So
any tips or info on uh on for a young

(02:10:49):
I would say, for a man of my age, I'm
twenty nine, I have a family, I would say I'm
struggling spiritfully, and I know I have like you guys
through the internet, but like I was talking to a
messaging father Chris I don't know. To me, I'm perceiving
it as difficult. Like to it's it's so much better

(02:11:12):
like in person, you know, I'm more of a hands
on person and it's I would love for you guys
to close her. And so I don't know, I'm just
like struggling, Like I have two daughters and my wife
I called my wife, but we're not technically married, so
we're living in sin And I remember a couple of
months ago, mister Willett, you told me that you said

(02:11:34):
basically to try to like harvest like basically like a
platonic relationship with her. You know, I'm trying to make
the best out of it, but I'm still struggling. Like
so she I would say things have improved, you know,
she does want to pursue church more, but she's more
like pursuing the Protestant church, which is fine, you know,
but like you make comments, so there's she likes to

(02:11:56):
go to the church where they displayed like a big concert,
and to me, that's like I'm past that in my
spiritual journey. But yet there's no like there's no churches
like the ones you like you provide, you know, I
feel like it's more serious with the church that you have.
I don't know, I just feel like I just feel
like I'm stagnant. I've listened to one of your recent matches,

(02:12:17):
like a couple of weeks ago, where you were saying
that if you're stagnant, you're not doing something right. You know,
you're kind of like, uh, I don't know, kind of
just waiting around. That's why I feel like I'm in
my life and as a young man, I just feel
like maybe I'm leaving, like I'm struggling with egos in
in the workplace, Like I can't stand people who are rude.

(02:12:39):
It's just so hard. I don't know, I'm perceiving life
that's kind of like difficult, and I know it's it's
it's hard to follow Jesus and I'm finding it extremely hard.

Speaker 4 (02:12:49):
Uh.

Speaker 8 (02:12:49):
And it's hard to be kind to people who are mean,
Like I can't stand being bullied. So I feel like,
I don't know, I'm just I know, kind.

Speaker 6 (02:12:56):
Of like stugg is your You're only finding these things
hard because you're trying. Like this is the weird thing, right,
because before people really wrestle with the meaning of life,
and you know, the Gospel message and what have you.
To a certain extent, that life is easier because when

(02:13:18):
you start reading and taking on board and taking seriously
the message of God, it inevitably leads to struggle because
now you have standards, you know, and now and now
you're holding yourself to those standards, and we do hold
other people to those standards, which is not a bad thing,

(02:13:40):
by the way, It's just we just can't reach a
point of condemning people. And if we're getting angry about that,
then we've got to find a way of synthesizing that
with our lives. But you know, if you're finding it
difficult and irritating and all the rest of it, it's
because actually your your standards have been.

Speaker 5 (02:13:56):
Raised in terms of which shirts you go to.

Speaker 3 (02:13:58):
Look.

Speaker 6 (02:13:59):
If you find the perfect church, whatever you do, don't
join it or tell anybody, because you'll wreck it and
everybody else.

Speaker 5 (02:14:05):
Okay, so there is no perfect church. Obviously. I'm not.

Speaker 6 (02:14:10):
I I was a Protestant. I'm not a Protestant now,
so I'm not. You know, I am convinced by Catholic truth.
But I would say that going to a bad church
with your family is better than going to no church
with your family.

Speaker 5 (02:14:24):
So if that's the compromise, then well don't dismiss it.

Speaker 3 (02:14:28):
Here's what I'm going to suggest. I agree with. But
father Chris said, if I could only add that, you know,
one of my biggest struggles is that, and Jamie will
tell you, my wife will say the same thing I
always said. You know, I don't know, I don't I
really do not understand why this church was established here

(02:14:49):
in Georgia. Because if if I had a dollar for
every time somebody from California or the West Coast said,
what I wish your church was out here, you know,
we would probably you know, have a lot massive institution
because we people in Georgia just don't care about us.
There's only a handful of people. Most of them don't
show up, you know. It's it's really most of our

(02:15:13):
actual support comes from your area, and that is where
the church should be. I wish it was over there.
Maybe someday something can change about that. It might not
be California, but I would definitely I could definitely envision
being back in Nevada again. I missed living in Nevada.
But anyway to your question, as far as like the

(02:15:34):
church situation, Okay, there's nothing to say, look, this is
a common thing where you know spouses or you know
significant others or whatever have their own respective ideas as
to what makes them comfortable in terms of religion. And
at least you're not going outside of the Christian religion.

(02:15:55):
That helps a lot, you know, it makes it much
more challenging when you marry outside your faith or get
into a relationship with someone outside your faith, because then
that tends to be when somebody, usually the more fervent one,
dominates the other person, and and you don't really want that.
What I would suggest you, guys decide to do is,
you know, why don't you agree to go to each

(02:16:16):
other's churches. There's nothing that says you can't. I mean, yeah,
it does kind of double your obligation on Sunday, but
you know, it's something that you could do as a gesture.
Maybe even alternate one time with them with her church,
one time with yours, you know, every other week. Something
of that nature could could be. I think a good

(02:16:37):
compromise here. And who knows, you never know that one
of you, you know, she might come a lot around
to Catholicism and say this this is great. Now, the
challenge here of course is finding a good Catholic church.
And that's I can't something. I can't promise that you'll
find that where you are. I don't know. I'm sure
there are some, but you know you have to kind
of check around and find join it and make it better. Yeah,

(02:16:59):
make it at the other side of the coin, I mean,
I can't. You're not gonna find something like the Nicolayan
Church anywhere. It's kind of a unique thing. But you
do have the online masses, and then you know what
a lot of our people do is they watch the
online masses like you've been doing, and then they go
to their their local church for the sacraments. And even
though they don't enjoy like.

Speaker 6 (02:17:20):
You, you are supposed to be with Christians where you live,
like you know we are. We are supposed to be,
you know, people that pray for support one another, and
you know we certainly the Holy Nicolean Church does that.
But you do need to be like in in in

(02:17:41):
proximity to other people. And so you know, like I say,
even if you go there and there's a church full
of people are very different from you, they're different generation,
what have you.

Speaker 5 (02:17:52):
Actually there's a real discipline and wisdom and grace in
learning how to love that despite you know, is spy
that they might not be your people or your ultimately.

Speaker 3 (02:18:03):
You know, spiritual life is supposed to be challenging. It's
supposed to be difficult. It's supposed to be uncomfortable. So
the fact that you are experiencing these discomforts is a
sign that, like Father Chris said in the beginning, it
means you're making the effort. You know, if it was easy,
then it wouldn't have any merit. It wouldn't it wouldn't

(02:18:24):
produce any fruit.

Speaker 4 (02:18:25):
It has to be hard, and we all struggle with it.
You are not alone.

Speaker 3 (02:18:29):
No, And look, just because I'm a bishop doesn't mean
it's any easier. I would say that the challenges only
become more difficult. You know, it becomes harder as you
go up the ladder. It doesn't get easier. So that's
the mark of a Christian person, and it's also a
sign that you're you're doing it right. You know, stagnation

(02:18:56):
is not always a problem. I don't remember exactly which
sermon you were referring to, but I want to make
sure I clarify that stagnating is not necessarily an issue.
You're going to have moments where you plateau. I think
I remember the stry.

Speaker 4 (02:19:10):
He's not sitting in stagnation on purpose. He's hungry. He
wants to That's different. That's the difference.

Speaker 3 (02:19:19):
The kind of stagnation I'm talking about is that you know,
people will will only let themselves go so far, and
then they stop, and then what happens is their spiritual
life plateaus, and then they wonder why they're not making
any progress because you know, they're like, well, God's not
listening or God's not doing this, and they blame everything
else except for the fact that they didn't make the effort.

(02:19:41):
I don't think that's you at all. I think you
are making the effort, which might be why you're getting
a little impatient with not just yourself but others, because yeah,
like Father Chris said, you're you're setting a higher standard now.
And the more you do that, the more you grow
in Christ, the more difficult that gets because the more
of the parity you will start to see. And the

(02:20:03):
real challenge is, now, how do you still fulfill the
command to love everyone when you start to see how
everyone is such an asshole?

Speaker 4 (02:20:10):
You start to see everybody saw everybody saw how.

Speaker 3 (02:20:14):
You have to Yeah, it's true, it's true. So I
don't think these are I think these are actually good
signs and good problems they have, and not beyond solutions,
you know, I think you're already working in the right direction.
But those are the suggestions I would have share. You know,
go to each other's churches. You know, if you if

(02:20:36):
you're willing to go to hers, she should be willing
to go to yours. And and and you know, maybe
alternate or do both. You know, lots of options there.
And then as far as you know, finding a church
that's like ours, well, you know, you're always welcome to
come out if you can. We have the retreat house,
you know, it is it is, it is available. Become
a member of this church, and it's it's open to

(02:20:57):
all of our members. And then you can, you know,
you can come whenever you want and receive the sacraments
when you visit. And there's no charge of sting at
the retreat house. You just have to get yourself there.
That's it.

Speaker 8 (02:21:09):
You know.

Speaker 7 (02:21:09):
I would actually like to add something because I was
in a similar position. We're similar in age. Whatever church
you find, be sure that they love you. Asking questions
that they encourage deeper thought, because things more destructive, in
my opinion, than than a church that says, don't question

(02:21:31):
or it's just what it is.

Speaker 3 (02:21:33):
That's a tall order. It's a tall order. But you
can try.

Speaker 5 (02:21:39):
Do.

Speaker 4 (02:21:39):
We wish you luck.

Speaker 3 (02:21:40):
Even in the Catholic faith. You might not be as
lucky to find a church that is open to questions.
But just because you have, you go to a church
that has lousy laity or lousy clergy or both, I mean,
actually expect it. It's probably going to be more likely
that you find a place that's not great than a

(02:22:01):
place that's wonderful. It doesn't mean there's not grace there
to be had. Like I said, get your spiritual nourishment
from us on on YouTube, but get your sacraments from them.
It's not ideal, but it's what almost every one of
our members has to do. And some of the sometimes
they come down and visit and then they get the
sacraments and they get to a ten Mass in person
with us, and that kind of holds them over until

(02:22:23):
they can come back again again. It's the best that
we can offer at the present time with this ministry.
But you know, there's things that you can do, and
I think you're already in the right direction. You really are.
Now you said you had another question.

Speaker 8 (02:22:37):
Yes, I did have another question. I would like to
thank you all for the input, and I did let
my partner know that you did offer to baptize our children.
We are working on getting them baptized with the local
Catholic church. So it's it's a slow process. It's like
you said before, it's kind of it depends on the situation,

(02:22:59):
I guess, but it's hard to like get a hold
of them because they're kind of big, and I don't know,
it's the difficult but that's but anyway, thank you for
answering that question. It makes me feel better. My next
question is a bit I don't know what I guess
some would call it supernatural paranormal. So it has to
do with sasquatch ets. We could include, uh, I guess,

(02:23:25):
you know, demons or spirits, but it's mostly in regards
to oh also portals, and it has I want to
speak about individuals such as Dave Politis, doctor Stephen Greer,
so Mike and I think Mitchell let I would say
the things you talk about just kind of remind me

(02:23:46):
of those two individuals, and I'm just so fascinated at
like the work that Dave polities. Basically, there's people that
go missing in forest. And I'm aware that you live
like in Atlanta, right, and I think lived at.

Speaker 5 (02:24:00):
The Lower Area.

Speaker 8 (02:24:01):
I forgot what you used to live somewhere the Appalachian Mountains.
Will people go missing in those areas? So what are
your thoughts on Sasquatch miss uh Jamie? I know you
have some like native background, right, maybe you have stories
about uh Sasquatch or big butt? Do like I think

(02:24:22):
that I think that God. I think Jesus is God.
But if that's what does exist and eat teas, I
mean maybe I'm sounding like a bit like like if
I'm stuck in a paradigm. But if these things exist,
maybe God created them. I don't know, maybe he didn't.
Maybe they's just their own entity. I don't think they're demonic,
but it's crazy to me how people go missing, and

(02:24:43):
I don't know what are you?

Speaker 7 (02:24:44):
What are you?

Speaker 8 (02:24:45):
Guys? Just saw some portals or and even little people.
I know there are like such as olves or gnomes
or even fairies. I know it might seem so odd,
maybe even superstitious, But some people actually do believe in this,
and there's some people like in uh, I think the
country of Sweden or one of those countries over there,

(02:25:05):
that they don't like. When they want to build roads,
they don't demolish the natural mountains or boulders because they
think that live in them somewhere somewhere. I don't know,
Maybe you guys don't have enough to.

Speaker 3 (02:25:23):
It's it's look I think that well, first of all,
if it exists here, it's part of creation, so therefore
God produced it. There's nothing here that God did not produce.
And since God produced all of reality, then anything that
is real is from him. So I think where we

(02:25:46):
get a little bit confused and why it starts to
feel a bit mysterious and supernatural is because we're very
comfortable with the corporeal. We're very uncomfortable with the end corporeal.

Speaker 12 (02:25:57):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (02:25:57):
And there are species that you know, we come to
encounter just by virtue of the work that we do.
There are species that just like us, where we're primarily
corporeal with an incorporeal capacity. There's those that are the
complete opposite, where it's it's entirely incorporeal or just partially physical,

(02:26:19):
but not really where it does sort of have some appearance,
but it doesn't behave the same way that it would
in a scientific sense, which is why you might have
situations where it seems like they're walking through dimensions or
portals or something, or where they're very difficult to capture.
And you know, to date, there's nobody that's ever been
able to produce evidence of a sasquatch or you know,

(02:26:43):
or any well most of the time when it when
they when, But when you get like people that produce evidence,
it's almost always determined to be a fraud every single time.

Speaker 4 (02:26:56):
And that doesn't help because it doesn't because it takes
away from the actual people legitimately trying to investigate exactly.

Speaker 8 (02:27:02):
So I would say, I'm gonna just I'm sterrupting, but
I'm gonna hang up, but I will continue listening to
the show. Okay, thank you, thank you much love for
you guys, but I will continue listening. But I need
to go run some errands, but I will be listening.

Speaker 3 (02:27:17):
Thank you guys, Thank you, no worries.

Speaker 7 (02:27:19):
So yeah, Also, I guess one thing you could add
if you would like to listen more. I think back
in November of twenty two, We did have an expert
on where we discussed about Sasqua SASQUATD.

Speaker 3 (02:27:32):
Yeah, there's an episode of But my feeling is is
that these are incorporeal, largely incorporeal beings, you know, primordial
uh spirits, elemental spirits that definitely makes up a lot
of the the faye uh. You know gnomes or you

(02:27:54):
know elementals that are literally of the one of the
four elements. These are all things that we do encounter
in this work, largely only understood to most people as
myth or a type of fictional mythology, without understanding sort
of how that plays out in the rest of the

(02:28:15):
metaphysical realm. So I would say that that's where they
fall into. Now aliens, I would say, is a completely
different thing, okay, And I'm not going to even let
me just add as a caveat, I'm not even going
to dismiss the possibility that some of these things are
not thought forms, okay, which would be a whole other ballgame,
but still again another type of incorporeal creature, but largely

(02:28:38):
with a completely different genesis. But aliens, and I can
say this from personal experience I've talked about on this show,
but also with cases that we've sometimes received. Most of
our alien cases came in before you were with us, Jamie,
but we've had a few, and I can tell you
that those are the ones that are the most difficult

(02:28:59):
to classify and resolve because they don't follow any of
the normal patterns that we see with all of the
other manifestations of what we call paranormal phenomenon. It is
its own thing, and disturbingly so, because this is where

(02:29:21):
you get into some and we've had some shows on
this topic that probably go into this with but far
more detail than I'm about to or able to right now.
But I will say that what I have seen disturbs me.
With this, I am not beyond the opinion. I'm not

(02:29:41):
definitive on anything, because I don't have the information to
be definitive, but I will say I am not beyond
the opinion that they are exactly what people say they are,
you know, creatures, perhaps not with the best of intentions
from other worlds, that somehow have technology that allows them
to come here and influence the development on this planet.

(02:30:03):
As you start to see what's going on, you know,
particularly in recent times with this now being normalized by
mainstream media, Trump and the disclosure and everything else. I mean,
Trump's saying the the the the American people are ready,
they're ready to know the truth. You know, you get
the UAP things and all this other stuff that's going on.

(02:30:24):
Clearly there is something going on, and clearly it is
not something that that that is normal. You know, It's
not like it's something that's been always you know, we've
always known about it, but we just kept it quiet,
you know. I I I'm not I'm not unconvinced. I'm
not convinced, but I'm not unconvinced that this is exactly

(02:30:46):
what they say it is. And and and that leads
us to wonder what is the overall dynamic here, what
exactly is going on? And where does that fall into
the overall world view of religion, Because then you have
to ask yourself, well, I mean, if there are species

(02:31:08):
from another planet here interacting with this one of more
advanced technology, more evolved, perhaps then do they need salvation
like we do? Are they fallen like we are?

Speaker 8 (02:31:20):
You know?

Speaker 3 (02:31:21):
Do they believe in God? Do they even understand such things?
Does it matter to them?

Speaker 4 (02:31:25):
You know?

Speaker 3 (02:31:27):
Or you could be like, you know, where it really
gets kind of dark and disturbing for some people, and
this has led to I think some of the mystery
of it, and some of the resistance of the governments
to be forthcoming is fear that it could lead to
a crisis of faith on the basis that what if
it was determined or as believed by some, that they

(02:31:50):
ceded this planet, that they took their own DNA and
seated it with a primate and that's what expedited the
evolution of of advanced primates on this planet. I mean,
all of these are possibilities. Does it negate the existence
of God? No, because I think that, you know, this
would even be more reason for Christ to come and

(02:32:12):
try to save this planet. So I don't think it
changes anything religiously. The Church definitely doesn't seem to think
it does, and the Church does, make no mistake about it.
The Catholic Church does have conversation about this. They have
there is a lot of conversation right now because it's
been in mass consciousness. And I'm sorry, but you cannot

(02:32:34):
dismiss the fact that you had roswell and then suddenly
technology just went freaking crazy. After that, we lived pretty
much the same as we always did for thousands of
years until Roswell.

Speaker 4 (02:32:47):
Well, doesn't the Vatican own observatories?

Speaker 3 (02:32:50):
It did, that's a big one. Yeah it does.

Speaker 6 (02:32:52):
I was gonna say, the greatest lie of the postmodernists
is the science, discovery, technology, the gates, right, But when the.

Speaker 5 (02:33:02):
Church is opposed to those things, it's absolute garbage.

Speaker 4 (02:33:05):
Of the greatest scientists of all time. We're Catholic.

Speaker 6 (02:33:09):
The guy that basically discovered DNA was a priest. I mean,
it's yeah, it boils my blood. It's centered into sort
of making, you know, on thinking consciousness that the Church
is opposed to science.

Speaker 5 (02:33:27):
It's like, no, it's not. It's absolutely not.

Speaker 6 (02:33:31):
There would be no science, there being no modernity and
therefore no postmodernity without the church. It's just crazy. Yes,
they arrested Galileo. They talk about that, you know, but it.

Speaker 3 (02:33:43):
Wasn't quite for the reasons that are being said either.

Speaker 5 (02:33:46):
That's right.

Speaker 3 (02:33:47):
It wasn't so much that. How dare you say that
the Earth is at the center of the universe. It
had a lot more going on than just that.

Speaker 5 (02:33:54):
That's right.

Speaker 3 (02:33:55):
But yeah, I apologized, Yeah they did, I mean and
profusely over and over again. They still are, I think, Yeah,
so yeah, I think that's how we answer that, and
we can talk a lot more about aliens in the
future because it is a topic that fascinates me. I
think we have coming up on the full season. Yeah,
we have a conversation Reagan Force is coming back to

(02:34:18):
talk about him having in his hypnotic when he does
a hypnosis, his sessions with his clients people that are
reporting abductions and things like that. So it should be
very interesting to talk to him about what he has
experienced with through his clients. So that's coming up this fall,
so you don't want to miss it. But let's get

(02:34:39):
on to some questions. I know that there was a
question about should people donate through the superchats. Okay, the
superchats were activated by me. I thought it'd be more
clear as to how to work with them, and now
I got it activate. I don't know how to turn
it back off. But superchats are fine. I will eventually
figure out how to collect the money. I have not yet,
but I can tell you this from what I understand,

(02:35:01):
YouTube takes like more than half of it. So if
you want the church to get your entire donation, it
is much better to go to Esotericcatholic dot org and
click on the donate now button and do it directly
from the church's website. That way, the church will get
all of your donation, not just forty percent of it
or whatever it is. And there's also the moderators put

(02:35:22):
a link out there all the time. There's the QR
code right here, right beneath this hand, right here wherever
it is. Yeah, that QR code you can click and
it will take you directly to the church's donation portal
that the church gets the entire thing. You can even
tell it to pay the credit card fees, so that

(02:35:43):
if you want to donate one hundred dollars, you can
click that box and it will charge you like a
one hundred and two dollars or whatever it is. That
YouTube gives us a good rate, but it's still you
can even tell it that no, I want I want
the church to get the full one hundred dollars. I'll
pay the credit card fees. You can even do that
through that portal. With super chats, we get about forty
percent of whatever you donate. So it's probably not the

(02:36:04):
best way to donate to us. If you want to,
it's a great you know you're thinking of us. We
all appreciated, it's all appreciated. If superchat works, better for
you to go ahead, but it is better for the
church if you go through the website and do it there. Okay,
what's our next question. I'm trying to get through as
quickly as we can. We'll try to like smustle through these.

Speaker 4 (02:36:23):
So Brandon, I saw one from Lisa way way back,
yes you, and it rolled off, so I don't know
what the exact words were. So Lisa, if you're still
in the chat, could you.

Speaker 5 (02:36:36):
Yes here?

Speaker 12 (02:36:37):
Oh do you?

Speaker 4 (02:36:37):
Okay? Go ahead?

Speaker 7 (02:36:38):
Yeah, she asks. When we investigate, how is it that
the spirits for communicating with learner names and our group name,
it's understanding that what we are talking with is just
remnants from people who died.

Speaker 3 (02:36:52):
Yes, And that's again back to the fact that you're talking.
You're trying to ask a question, a question from a
linear perspective. It does not have a linear answer. You know,
you are not your your your awareness okay, is not
one thing. Okay, you're made up of. Again, what we

(02:37:15):
talk about constantly body, which is the physicality, the corporeal part,
and then spirit and soul, which make up the incorporeal parts. Okay,
at death, these things disperse in different ways. Two of
them degrade, one returns to the source from which it came.

Speaker 6 (02:37:37):
So the what.

Speaker 3 (02:37:39):
Typically, if you are communicating with a spirit at all
in an investigation, what you're communicating with is what we
would the ancient Greeks would have called the psyche. Okay.
That is the in the completely incorporeal part of a
person's concept of self. It is where the identity comes from.
It is where the eye, the idea of self comes from,

(02:38:02):
and it is essentially created by the root of intellection
of the mind that is held by the brain while
that body is alive. Okay, But at debt the brain
dies too, Okay. The brain is part of the corporeal side.
So then all you have left then is what that

(02:38:23):
brain was able to produce, an echo, a shadow that
sort of exists and gets stuck in the ether, and
it will still continue to behave and respond in the
same ways of expectation that it had while it was
alive and connected and conscious. It will even behave in
a conscious way even though it is not. It is

(02:38:46):
just an echo, but it is like an echo you
can talk to because it's an echo of expectation. It
is part of what we produced through our idea of
self and the identity that we built around it, through
the ego reality. That is what you're talking to, and

(02:39:06):
I can be completely frank with you. It is a
meaningless thing to converse with. It has no intrinsic value
other than the fact that if it is connected to
a negative attachment, or even a positive one, it prevents

(02:39:28):
the essence of what that person was from entering into salvation.
At the very least, it delays it. At the very worst,
it prevents it. All the more reason to stop talking
to these things and start moving them on. Not to
be fascinated by the fact that they might know your name,

(02:39:48):
because the expectation is that they would know your name,
so therefore the expectation produces the result. But that doesn't
make it remarkable. It just makes it what it is. Again.
It's like an intelligen echo. It's like the echo you
can yell out into the cavern and it yells back
something and answers your question. But that's all it's doing
just because it's expectation. Okay, it doesn't have any benefit.

(02:40:14):
What the benefit is is move this energy on so
it dissipates, can no longer effect a living and then
whatever essence of that person continues to exist in that
attached tormented reality can then be liberated and truly rest
in peace. As these tombstones say. Okay, but that's how

(02:40:36):
it's able to do it, because it's it's it's it's
a product of the expectation. You would expect me to
know your name, and I'm nothing more than just you
know in ego reality that that currently has a corporeal connection.
But take away this corporeal connection, kill me now. The
expectation of mine knowing your name is still there. And

(02:40:58):
even if I don't know you, if I meet you
for the first time, whether corporeal or incorporeal, there's still
an expectation that you will share your name and I
will know it. And because your copore incorporeal nature is
just as exactly the same as their incorporeal nature, the

(02:41:19):
information's not, you know, it's it's not obscured like it
is when you're talking on a tangible level from between
two people, Like I can hide things in my mind
that Jamie here cannot hear or see. Okay, but it's
just stored in the incorporeal. Now, anything that's incorporeal technically

(02:41:40):
has access to it. So it's not as private or
is missing, or is as personal as we like to
believe it is. It's just the incorporeal nature and it's
all part of the ether because it's not something that's isolated.
It's just one channel within the giant ether of incorporeality,
which makes up, by the way, the majority of this cosmos.

(02:42:03):
Most of this cosmos is unseen, very very little of
creation is seen, but God rules it all seen and unseen. Okay,
and again we're getting into like very deep metaphysics here,
but that's a kind of a metaphysical question. There's not
really a theological question there. But that's that's how that works.
That's how they're able to do it, because it's it's

(02:42:25):
why wouldn't they be able to do it? That's the expectation,
you know, I mean you you know that they still
a lot of times, this energy still thinks itself to
be alive, and so it's going to behave as though
it's still alive because it expects itself to be alive,
and that means it's going to find out names and
try to talk to the people that are talking to
it as it would when it was alive. It's just

(02:42:46):
an expectation factor. Not remarkable in any way other than that,
but that's how it's able to do it. And a
lot of times, you know, it's not even a spirit
you're talking to. You're just getting an echo of your
own consciousness that you're putting out there, because your your
entire consciousness is incaboreo too, also part of the ether,

(02:43:08):
and it's echoing out there the same way theirs is.
And most of the time, because you go into an
investigation with an expectation that there are spirits there, yeah,
then your mind is going to produce an echo that
meets the expectation because that's what it's designed to do.
And you've been taught since the time you were a
child to cultivate your life that way. You know, why

(02:43:30):
do you teach a kid to develop skills because there's
an expectation that they're going to need them, so you
create the expectation in youth so they cultivate them and
then can use them later on. Same thing here. It's
no different, but it's not really all that good for
breaking attachments. Expectations are really bad for breaking attachments, and

(02:43:51):
that's what creates the illusion of our life. Now, it's
okay if you understand that and work within its framework.
But where it becomes a problem is when you start
to believe it. That's where it becomes a problem, because
then once you believe it, then you can't you see
it at the exclusion of everything else, and that's what
holds us back from developing and growing spiritually. So that's
the that's the caveat to it. But that's the answer

(02:44:14):
to that question. I mean, I don't want to spend
too much for a little while to get chew on
that for a little while. Let's get to the next one.
What's our what's our next one?

Speaker 7 (02:44:24):
So the next one, I guess we answered that one.
It comes from Jay. I was talking to a friend
about Jesus's prayer and the peace that you get from
giving all your problems to God. And she laughs and
says it's wrong.

Speaker 6 (02:44:40):
Yes, the Jesus prayer, Jesus prayer, Lord Lord Jesus Christ, Living.

Speaker 5 (02:44:46):
God on mercy on mea soon.

Speaker 7 (02:44:48):
Yes, So do I continue to try and reach her
or let it be?

Speaker 3 (02:44:56):
It's tell me the first part of the question again.
I just want to make sure I understood it correct.

Speaker 6 (02:45:00):
I caught the question when it came in. I think
the idea was about, you know about you know, when
you can see somebody who you want to help in this.

Speaker 3 (02:45:11):
Way, anybody do you cant?

Speaker 5 (02:45:13):
Yeah, well a friend do you do? You do you
persist in that?

Speaker 6 (02:45:18):
You know? I mean, look, my quick advice in the
chat was a battle of wills is not a very
good way towards somebody reaching a spiritual encounter. You know,
like if you just become the kind of the thing
that they can resist, probably what they're resisting is within themselves, right,
because we believe it's it's to be the truth, and
so it's best to let them figure that out.

Speaker 5 (02:45:40):
Like you was you, Jamie, You said she planted a seed, right,
you know, or somebody said that in the.

Speaker 4 (02:45:47):
Chat, and I basically told her to knock the sand
off her feet, because so you're trying to help a friend,
and you're trying to help them away you know how
that works for you, and they absolutely dismiss it and
don't take you seriously. Yeah, there's no need to pursue you.

Speaker 3 (02:46:04):
Don't pursue that beyond that, they're not they're.

Speaker 4 (02:46:05):
Not taking you serious, and they don't appreciate you trying
to help them. All I can do is continue to
pray for him.

Speaker 3 (02:46:10):
If there's an interest, if there's an active interest, if
they come to you, that's one thing. And like, certainly
when people come to me, I'm brutally honest, okay, because look,
you're you're you're you're taking the time of the church.
You're employing the the the ear of it of a
of a extorcist to our pastor whatever the capacity is
to help you through a spiritual issue. At that point,

(02:46:33):
that assumes that you want my involvement. So at that point, yeah,
I'm going to be a little more brutal than I
would with somebody that i might meet on a cruise
ship while I'm drinking at a bar that starts the
conversation about his lifestyle and and maybe you know, it's
not the best Christian direction he's going. I'm probably not
going to get too actively involved in that conversation because

(02:46:55):
he first of all, he didn't ask me for anything.
Second of all, it's it's it's kind of out of context,
and third of all, it doesn't really help them. You know,
what you really want to do is set the example now, you,
as a friend, have the ability to set an example
to everyone that you meet, and that's really all that's
expected of you as a Christian. You are not commissioned

(02:47:19):
to go and interfere with people's lives. You're there to
serve in whatever capacity God calls you. And believe me exactly,
your fruits are going to speak large, much more loudly
than anything that you could try to convince them of.
And again, we're not called to convince anybody. We're called

(02:47:39):
to respond to people, and that sometimes means responding, you know,
appropriately to wherever they're at in the case, and most
of the time people are not ready for it. So
you know what, you just be an example and that's it.
That's your ministry, that's your missionary work. That's as far
as it needs to go. Like my YouTube channel right
like this one, what we're doing right now. I mean,

(02:48:02):
I'm not I'm not out there shoving this down people's throats.
I'm not going out there on the street being like
you better tune in or else. You know, it's there
if people want to listen to it, here it is,
and it stays up there for all eternity in the archives.
Anybody can tune into it whenever they want. We had
about fifty downloads from India just this past week.

Speaker 4 (02:48:20):
Interesting.

Speaker 3 (02:48:21):
You know, we're reaching people all over the world and
it's wonderful. I don't even know. I'll never know any
of these people, but you know what, We're having an
impact and I'm not having to force anything. They found me,
they find value in it, they download it. It's all
their free choice. That's all that's required. I made it available.
That did my duty. I made it available and now
if they want to take it, it's there for them.

(02:48:43):
And that's all you need.

Speaker 5 (02:48:44):
Saying that.

Speaker 6 (02:48:44):
If I go on my holiday to Bombay, Madras, Calculta,
they might know who you are.

Speaker 4 (02:48:52):
Stick with white hair.

Speaker 3 (02:48:54):
But yeah, we are big in India. We get more
downloads from India than anywhere else.

Speaker 5 (02:49:04):
Yeah, it's a great country. It's a great country. I'm
obsessed with the history of India.

Speaker 3 (02:49:09):
I'm assessed with the food.

Speaker 5 (02:49:13):
Cook Indian food from every region of India.

Speaker 1 (02:49:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (02:49:17):
So there you go. That's our next one. We'll try
to get through some more.

Speaker 7 (02:49:21):
Okay, Well, I was just there.

Speaker 14 (02:49:22):
It was a it was a follow up jas about reincarnation.
Basically basically is reincarnation real, and if so, do we
reincarnate as humans?

Speaker 3 (02:49:33):
I think we've answered I think we've we've answered this
question about a thousand times. But I'll try to be Yeah,
there's a lot of of of of other shows that
probably went into far more detail. In fact, I think
there's even an episode on it somewhere. Reincarnation is not
what is taught in the New Age movement or theosophy. Okay,

(02:49:56):
this idea that you live in some spiritual bliss some
and then you pick your life and you pick your parents,
and you pick your problems to learn your lessons and
all this bullshit that is that is just pure bullshit.
That is not what Buddhism or even Hinduism teaches about it.
What it is is is a bad thing. Reincarnation is
to be avoided. It isn't to be embraced. It's it's

(02:50:18):
it's it means that things aren't going right. I'm sorrow.

Speaker 1 (02:50:23):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (02:50:23):
And the idea here is, yes, it is real, but
not like you think. Okay, so Christianity is right teaching
you get one lifetime and one chance to use that
life to attain salvation. That is absolutely correct. And you
know what Buddhists do not disagree with that. Intrinsically. Not intrinsically,
what happens to your energy if you end up being

(02:50:46):
uh dissipated by the fires of hell. Let's say, okay,
let's say you didn't, you didn't attain salvation, you end
up with gehenna, and that's it, Okay, your whatever is
the energy that was you. Because the laws of thermodynamics
apply here just like they do anywhere else in this universe.
It is a universal law, whether you're talking spirituality or physicality.

(02:51:11):
And remember here is nowhere that there is nowhere that
here isn't okay, it's all one thing. So the fact
is that energy just gets recycled into the universe the
way that all energy gets recycled into the universe, and
then it becomes something new again. So like for example,
I mean, you drink water, okay, and then you urinate

(02:51:32):
that water out It then goes into your toilet into
assesspole or the sewers, and then all that urine eventually,
you know, gets reconstituted into some vat of dirty water
that that is reprocessed or evaporated back into what becomes rain,
and and and and becomes the ocean. You know, it's

(02:51:53):
not urine anymore. It's just like you're not going to
be you anymore. But the energy that animated you will
always be. That's the eternal soul that Father Chris was
talking about, and that does indeed continue to exist. If
you don't use it, it's given to something else, and
that's what reincarnates. But it's not like you, as an

(02:52:16):
individual living out these lives. You had that one chance. Now,
if you attain salvation, then the energy stays with you forever,
and that's what goes on into the resurrection of the
dead at the end of time and is permanent. We
call that in nesoteric mysticism becoming permanent. But until that happens,
then the other result is that the energy eventually dissipates

(02:52:39):
and then is recycled into someone else. Now that doesn't
mean that that energy doesn't retain some memory of what
occurred before, and that's where past life memory comes from,
or past life regression, as we've seen with reginforced in
and all that. And that's why people say, oh, I
think I was a soldier who died in a in

(02:53:00):
World War Two. I mean yeah, yeah, I mean you're
gonna remember it, but it wasn't you.

Speaker 5 (02:53:04):
That wasn't you.

Speaker 3 (02:53:06):
You have the energy of perhaps the person that and
maybe just one part of them.

Speaker 4 (02:53:10):
You got a clumpbuk or a clumpbook.

Speaker 3 (02:53:12):
Clump maybe like a little a little ratio, but not
even the whole thing, just the part, just the part
that holds that memory. That's it, and that's not you.
It's just a memory. So that's what reincarnation is. If
you're interested in more, there's an actual episode on that.
We could probably take Winny one or two more quick questions.
What do we got.

Speaker 7 (02:53:32):
But to say, actually, I just wanted to ask something
to the reincarnation kind of what helped me understand it
thanks to the webinar was I kind of think of
it as like when you're a kid and you watch
a puppet show where you have the person having like
three puppets spread out, and when they put their hand
inside one puppet, they animate it seems as if it's

(02:53:54):
brought to life. But then you take the hand out,
the puppet essentially seems to die. And so each person
is a different puppet puppet, but it's the hand that
animates the puppet that gets recycled. But this puppet here
is not the same as the one in the middle.

Speaker 3 (02:54:14):
And salvation, and salvation is turning Pinocchio into a real boy.
That's what salvation is. You become a real person at
that point, you're no longer a puppet. And the puppet tier, okay,
is whoever you choose to align yourself with. If you
align yourself with your own ego, then you know, good luck,

(02:54:37):
you know. But if you let Christ animate you, that's
what leads to salvation. That's what means, means to take
on Christ, purge yourself of your own ego, you know,
and then that makes the puppet real, you know. Actually,
you know, the story of Pinocchio is the story of salvation.
People don't realize that. But we'll have to talk about
that another day. What's what's our next one? We can

(02:54:58):
probably do maybe one more if it's fast. Do you
got one minute?

Speaker 4 (02:55:04):
Maybe I've got one.

Speaker 1 (02:55:05):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (02:55:06):
Someone asked about witchcraft. Okay, if someone's doing witchcraft, does
it cause negative energy to manifest in that space where
they're conducting it?

Speaker 3 (02:55:18):
If they're doing negative things?

Speaker 4 (02:55:21):
We kind of answered it in the chat, But I mean.

Speaker 3 (02:55:24):
Witchcraft is a reflection of what of of the practitioner.
So if you're putting a lot of negative, uh you know,
cruel energy, evil energy into what you're doing, then yeah,
I mean, but you don't need to do to witchcraft
to do that. Just harboring evil thoughts about someone is
a spell that's far more powerful than doing a witch's brew,

(02:55:44):
you know, and and.

Speaker 6 (02:55:45):
Being turned in on yourself and miserable and miserly and
you know, yeah, that'll do it.

Speaker 3 (02:55:51):
That will do it every single time. So yeah, I mean,
you know, it's witchcraft is not the issue. It's the
person that's the issue. And I'm not even talking about intent.
I'm talking about nature. All right. You can intend to
be a good person but still be an asshole. That's
no better than an asshole who wants to be an asshole.
It's the same asshole.

Speaker 5 (02:56:09):
No, it's worse. It's actually worse, is it.

Speaker 3 (02:56:11):
Yeah, it is, it is.

Speaker 5 (02:56:12):
I've got some respect, I'll go because at least it's honest.

Speaker 3 (02:56:16):
The other one's honest. Yeah, the other one's honest. Yeah,
the other one's.

Speaker 6 (02:56:19):
Potentially they've actually sets out a t loss and work
towards it.

Speaker 5 (02:56:23):
Yeah, you know. Yeah, if you're just a bungling fool,
then you're a fool, right.

Speaker 3 (02:56:30):
Oh my gosh, that's the end of the show. What
a great way to end it to It's.

Speaker 4 (02:56:33):
Like a marathon, we do.

Speaker 5 (02:56:36):
We love everyone India, Yeah, in India.

Speaker 3 (02:56:38):
Thank you India for tuning in and being a part
of our lives here. We really love and appreciate each
and every one of you out there across the world.
This is the end of the summer specials. We'll be
back next month September twenty third for the next well,
actually it's the next season. It'll be the season premiere
and it will be another open lines, open topics. I
don't like doing the season premiere with guests, just in

(02:57:00):
case there's like technical issues that we haven't ironed out
yet for the season, So I kind of like doing
the first couple of shows without a guest, so I
don't inconvenience them. So we'll be having a couple shows,
I think, just two episodes next season, starting in September,
the September twenty third, I think it is, and that's
when we'll have nine episodes for you for the fall season.

(02:57:21):
We've got some great ones coming up, and be sure
to subscribe to this channel here on YouTube. Nicola and
TV so that you can make sure that you like
and put your reminders up for each of these shows,
because they're going to be good ones. And I think
Vestiges is in the best place that's ever been. We
finally got our internet connections worked out, and I think

(02:57:43):
this is a good show. I think you all can agree.
And thank you all for calling in. I mean, see
how much more fun it is when people actually call
into the show. It's just so much better, you know,
it really is. We can really take time with your question.
But anyway, thank you Father Chris, thank you Brandon, thank
you Jamie, and thank you moderators and everyone else. God
bless you all, and I'll see you out there in
the eighth.

Speaker 2 (02:59:07):
Standards.

Speaker 13 (02:59:08):
Buddhist standis astistundismission is the biggestos is the last is
the best, Sort is the negests is the best is
the best

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