Open Lines/Open Topics for February 25, 2025

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
Good morning, good afternoon, good evening, whichever the case. Baby.
For all of you listening up there across the crazy
planet Ears, welcome to a brand new season of Vestiges
after Dark, and I am your host, Bishop Brian will

(02:13):
Let it come into your life from the defensive Western
Georgia on this February twenty fifth, twenty twenty five. Well,
tonight is our first episode open lined, open topics. We
specifically chose this not just because you all love this

(02:36):
one so much, but because we knew that we were
going to have a lot of problems getting this show started,
and this whole season started. Over the break, the computer
that runs this show crashed and the entire hard drive
was destroyed. Even the backups on the cloud were lost, everything.

(02:58):
It was a complete disaster. I had to rebuild it
from scratch. We're back, sort of, but I'll tell you
more about it when we return. Don't go away. Hello everybody.

(03:57):
I hope you are all having a one wonderful, wonderful evening.
I'm glad to be here with you tonight. Once again.
I'm your host, Bishop Brian Willette. A bit of frustrated,
Bishop Brian Willlette, but I am absolutely here and I
am also here with my wonderful co host, Jamie Wolf.

Speaker 2 (04:13):
You doing, Jamie, I'm doing the taste real good in
a second.

Speaker 1 (04:18):
Yes, alerturgical libations. Tonight is the Brooklatic eighteen year old
unpeded Scotch from Islah and it is. It is a
it's a good one.

Speaker 2 (04:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (04:30):
Actually it was actually rated one of the top five
I think for the year. If I'm not mistaken, it's
it's a it's a good it's a good one. We'll
give it a taste a second, But first I want
to thank all of our serious reverb Are we getting
reverb two mini mics? So once again we're having some

(04:52):
kind of strange mic issue that there's another Oh it's
this primary's back on on this plane here too. Okay,
that it should go away. Now I'll explain what this is.
Is better. Now we might have to do this several times. Okay,

(05:16):
the intro was good, but now but it's okay, yeah, okay,
So let me explain to you what happened here. Okay, So,
as I mentioned over the break between seasons, the whole
hard drive crashed and all the backups crashed, and and

(05:36):
so I had to rebuild the show from scratch, not
remembering all of the settings that we had initially while
they all went away, I had to rebuild them from memory,
which you know was done several years ago. And if
you guys remember when we first started doing a video
version of this podcast, we had to really do a

(05:57):
lot of test runs. It was an absolutely mess. A
lot of you helped me with that. I want to
thank you all for that. But what ended up happening, unfortunately,
was that in the process of rebuilding it, I wasn't
able to get everything back the way that initially was.
I had to kind of recreate certain things, and some

(06:19):
of the settings that were soligible apparently changed with the
new update, because all of the software, of course, has
been updated since the last versions were being used. And well,
Riverboat Gambers in the audience, I see and I know

(06:41):
how he feels about constantly having to fight against the
new iOS with his video with his wonderful casino game
app that he has for iPhone in an Android. But
this is a very similar thing. They're always updating, and
they're always changed things. They're changing interfaces, they're changing how

(07:02):
things work. And look, I'm not a tech guy, all right,
I'm a bishop I didn't go to school to run
a podcast. I'm not a broadcaster. I figured this all
out because I'm clever. But that's about as good as
it gets. Okay, So it's just a mess. So what

(07:24):
ended up happening is some of the microphones that were
set to the soundboard somehow got switched or I guess
auto connected to the computer or the camera because they
all have microphones too, and well, I guess that it

(07:44):
just decided to play them all at the same time.
So that's why you got that echo there. And that
was incidentally the same reason why there was a you
could hear me during the pre show because the the
setting that was originally our microphone setting was changed to

(08:08):
I guess another microphone, the built in ones on the
computer or something, and I had to set specifically the
sound board and rebuild that one that connection to the
simulcasting software. It's it's I'm not gonna bore you with
any more of this, but it's it's just been a

(08:28):
nightmare for me. So if I was a little if
I sound a little irritated over that little intro, you
probably can figure out why. I mean, this has been
an absolute mess. So yes, I'm trying to get everything
working and up to par again the way it used
to be. On top of it all, if that wasn't
you know, to add insult to injury, if that wasn't

(08:49):
bad enough, Sprinker, which has been our podcasting software for
for for ages now, I guess, decided at some point
between the last time we used it in now to
no longer support live streaming. So there was no notification
to me about this. There was no information about this,

(09:12):
but I of course had to reinstall the studio software
to be able to do the podcast, and so we're
getting ready to go live. Everything's looking good except for
the microphone issue, which we seem to have resolved. And
now when I go over to the Sprinker studio to
go live for the podcast, there's no option to go live.

(09:34):
It's one completely gone. And so now I've had to
use the Spriaker studio to record what we're doing right now.
And thanks a lot Sprinker, by the way, maybe I
need to get rid of you and find it, you know,
another service. I don't even know, but it looks like

(09:55):
we can't be live on the auto only version now.
Now that's going to have to be uploaded as a
pre recorded broadcast from the live that we do now
on all of the other platforms, so we are if
all things are equal, it looks like we are live
on I haven't even checked Facebook. Let me just make

(10:17):
sure everything's looking good because I got completely derailed by everything.
So it looks like we're live on Facebook. Okay. It's
how is by the way the buffering? Is there buffering
or is there glitching on the stream? Because YouTube saying
that our key frame rate frequency is eight point one

(10:41):
seconds and it needs to be four seconds or lost.
I don't even know what that means. I've never even
seen that error before. I don't even know where you
would go to change a key frame frequent. It says
key frame frequency. I don't even know what that is.
And so it's saying that it could cause buffering. It's
saying we have a very poor stream health right now
because of it. And I don't see anything wrong from

(11:06):
my end. We're okay on Instagram, and I believe we
are okay on TikTok.

Speaker 2 (11:13):
So you just do what we did in the military
when the idiot lights came on on our home pies.
You just keep on going, or you slap the dashboard
until it goes off.

Speaker 1 (11:24):
It's all good. Your lips are matching the audio right
now on YouTube and I'm casting, okay, So it sounds
like there's really not an issue if something goes wrong.
This is just YouTube that's telling me this. The other
platforms seem to be fine, so I don't think it's

(11:44):
really an issue. Let me just check one thing here,
because this is something I usually do as well. I
put the announcement out here to the to the Nicolay
network as well, and I like getting that on there too. So,
like I said, this was more test show than a

(12:06):
season premiere. Unfortunately, it's just the way it had to
go because again, you know, I had to build this
from scratch, and I am not really a podcaster. I
just pretend to be one, all right. I think that's
good for now. I think so we're good on the
Nikolay network too, all right, So let's go ahead start

(12:30):
this show. I think we can start this show now.
I'm going to try this. Yes, let's start with well, no, first,
let's start with thinking everyone it was joining us, our
moderators who keep this show going behind the scenes for you.
You know, I want to thank all of you for
being here. I want to think all of you who
support the church which make this show possible. Let's not

(12:51):
forget that this is a church sponsored program and the
people that keep going are actually usually better people than
I am. So you give them a big, you know,
internal round of applause for all of the wonderful things
that they do to allow you all to enjoy this show,

(13:12):
because it does not get the support that it needs.
You know, there is a big fat QR code there
for donations, and there's a big website you could go
to to you know, give a donation if you like
the show. Very few of the audience actually does, but
a small handful supports it and keeps it going, and
well supports the church that keep it going. So we're

(13:32):
grateful for them, and I wanted to give a big
thank you for that, So turgical libations. Let's do this
and then we'll get a show on the road. Here.
So this is Brickletic eighteen. Yes, yes, this is a
good one.

Speaker 2 (13:51):
Oh yes, I remember this.

Speaker 1 (13:52):
Did you have it? I don't remember pouring it for you. You had,
but we've never done it on the show. So I
try to find things.

Speaker 2 (14:03):
Got it?

Speaker 1 (14:03):
Okay? I tried to do things that we haven't featured before.
But anyway, let me just check this is working here.
What a weird thing. I mean, I don't understand what
they would give up the live option. I'm gonna have
to check to that and find out what's going on. Okay.
So joining us from uh, the great country of Australia.

(14:28):
We have Father Chris all the way out there in
the morning. It's still morning for your right Father's twelve, okay,
So just turn new and see that's how late we
are right now.

Speaker 3 (14:42):
That's for sure. It's the Centi of the day, okay.
And I did, in fact finish my libation. I mean,
I've got my nice new you probably can't steal the
screen that my new little cups a little bit of
old England, and yeah, drinking this ceremony in your grade, matcher.

(15:02):
I worked for a member of parliament, an independent member
of Parliament in Australia, who is originally Knees, and she's
got me into all of these Southeast Asian goods. And
sorry the matcher, I'm quite a fan of. This is
the roll press ride and powdered Green tea, which actually China,

(15:27):
but it's now associated with Japan because the first King
Emperor bands China carried on in Japan.

Speaker 1 (15:33):
That's actually been interesting. That's good, all right, So where
I'm going, See, we're right now, I'm going to remove
the spotlight. I'm hoping that this fixes the problem. You
see right now, it's not switching over to the speaker
like supposed to. It just seems like it. I don't

(15:53):
know what it's doing right now. Let's see, right now
it's showing us Brandon, who all the way in Tennessee?
How you doing here? The one that's on right now?
Like I said, we needed this as a test show,
and you know, I didn't want to have to go
live and mess around with this because I needed everybody

(16:17):
here to do it. So it's like, you know what,
We're just gonna go live. We're not going to have
a guest for this show. We'll get to some good topics.
We'll have a good show. It won't be a perfect show,
but right now, for some reason, it's it even Zoom's
not cooperating the way that it normally does. Let's say
follow uh no, that doesn't work either. Okay, I'm gonna

(16:38):
have to mess around with this. I remember this being
an issue. Last time, there was some kind of of
situation with how this works. So what I'm going to
do right now. And the reason I don't like this
is that Father Chris is slightly cut off because it's
he's underneath where the chat is. But you can still

(16:58):
see him.

Speaker 2 (16:59):
You can still see him.

Speaker 1 (17:00):
Actually, you know what I can do. What I can
probably do is I can a bit. I'm going to
make us a little bit smaller right now and and
then hopefully I can get this working again. Maybe during
the break I'll play around with it again. This is

(17:21):
something I have to.

Speaker 2 (17:23):
With it during the break because you've got to figure
it out.

Speaker 1 (17:25):
Well. It drives me crazy, you know, I mean every
all this stuff drives me crazy. I am not a
computer technician, and I present having to be forced to
be one. Honestly, it creates a great deal of resentment
in me. It really does more than you probably know.
More than you probably know.

Speaker 2 (17:40):
Throw me a weapon from anywhere in the world and
I can figure out how to take it apart, put
it together, function, check all that. But when it comes
to computer stuff.

Speaker 1 (17:48):
So imagine imagine that you know, you went you went
through all this training to be you know, military and
law enforcement and you know, knowing how to work with
weapons and everything. And just imagine if if they said,
well you can do all these things, but you have
to run the database for the entire county on all

(18:11):
of the you know, all all of the the database
for the law enforcement, you know, switchboards and everything that connects. Well,
then you know how this feels. I mean, this is
just this is just like you know, it's out of
your paradigm. It's it's out of your realm of expertise.
And it's worse because it's a live show, you know,

(18:34):
so there's no room to go back and be like,
you know what, let's edit it out. You know, it's
just live. You got to deal with it. So it's
a little frustrating. But anyway, I mean, I you know,
I worked so hard to get this to be a
good one, and it still there was things that could
not be controlled.

Speaker 2 (18:51):
All right, So.

Speaker 1 (18:55):
Right now we're just gonna have to do the split
screens for night now, because for whatever reason, it's not
showing you the speaker. It's just either showing you the
person who's not talking with a person who is, but
not the entire group switching over. So we'll have to
figure out what's going on with that. Okay, so let's
get started, I guess with questions from the ether, Brandon,

(19:15):
I think that's probably the best way to just do.

Speaker 4 (19:17):
In this.

Speaker 2 (19:19):
We do, we do.

Speaker 5 (19:23):
We have a lot in that quorder. So the first
question is what does it mean when Jesus talks about
having to be like a child in order to answer heaven?

Speaker 1 (19:34):
Well, I mean, that's that's pretty much saying that in
order to become and this is what we've talked about
a lot on this show and in other places as well,
we are to be made perfect as He is perfect.
Nothing imperfect can enter into the Kingdom of Heaven, because
if something imperfect were to enter into the Kingdom of Heaven,

(19:56):
then the entire creation would fall all over again. And
that's exactly how we fell in the first place. We
brought imperfection into the perfection of the Kingdom. Made no
mistake about it. Even though even though the Garden of
Eden represents the physicality, the physical part of creation and Heaven,

(20:20):
and the Kingdom of Heaven represents the incorporeal parts, they
were perfectly united as one. So they existed sort of together.
God was completely present, and and and and revealed to
Adam and eve in in in a way that we

(20:42):
have never experienced since the fall. But bringing well, when
when original sin occurred, we fell entirely from grace and
we damaged the universe, and it separated heaven and earth,
so that now Heaven is more mystery than a parent

(21:04):
and what we've got left is a world of imperfection.
If we were to bring this imperfection back to the
Kingdom of Heaven, you create this chain reaction of the
fall over again. So in order to prevent that from occurring,
nothing imperfect can enter the Kingdom of Heaven, which means
that anything that achieved to Heaven, which we call salvation,

(21:24):
we need to be made perfect. Now, that doesn't mean
we need to die perfect. What it means is if
we die with enough grace, then we will be perfected
after the facts, so that we can then enter into
the Kingdom. And that's what Church calls purgatory. That's essentially
what it is. But we still need that perfection. And

(21:44):
those who die in perfect grace don't need purgatory. That
can enter into the Kingdom directly because they are perfect.
The grace makes them perfect. So that's kind of what
Jesus is saying here is that children represent in this
kind of allegory, children represent the perfection of the kingdom,

(22:09):
this innocence. There, there's no malice typically correct, and so
to be like a child is to kind of be like,
we need to return to that innocent perfection again, that's
what's sort of require of us. So it's an allegory.
Jesus isn't literally saying that you have to become like,
you know, five, a five year old and stupid or

(22:31):
ignorant or whatever. He's saying that we will have to
be made perfect in that kind of made pure again,
made made whole again, made new again. It's kind of
just a way of saying that. You know, there's a.

Speaker 3 (22:46):
Distinction also between because he says you have to become
like children, but not child, but not childish child childish.

Speaker 1 (22:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (22:57):
So, and you know, one of the features of a
child in this image is that that that open minded
and that they're trusting and open to being led by
there in this you know, allegory, the father. So it's
about being open to being shaped and molded by the
father's will, not being coufish, not having the ty potentium.

(23:23):
So and also you know, connected to this idea of
the rebirth that we receive when we come to God,
which while we have baptism right right, So.

Speaker 1 (23:34):
Yeah, your picture has completely frozen. We can hear you
just fine, father, but you are you are frozen. Okay, okay,
I don't know if you want to reset your video
and see if that helps. It says that they're saying
that you're echoing to I am not hearing the echo,

(23:59):
but then again, I'm not watching on the broadcast. It's
actually a really good picture of you. You frozen a
very good and a good way. But you are absolutely
frozen here. So but we can hear there, we go,
let's see you're green. Now that was just a green screen.

(24:22):
That the green screen lots of problem. We can hear you,
we can't hear you, we just can't see it. Okay, well,
we'll try to work on that. Uh So that I
think does that answer the question, Brandon. I think that's
the kind of the best way to look at it is,
you know, it's it's an allegory for perfection.

Speaker 5 (24:44):
About answer the question pretty well. So the second question,
the various figures tossed.

Speaker 6 (24:50):
Around as an adversary to God, such as Mastima from
Jubileeze or shia f.

Speaker 5 (24:56):
Are they just different names for the same figure.

Speaker 1 (24:59):
Or are they different figures entirely different different figures. These
are you know, completely different concepts that come out of
antiquity that sort of found their way into some of
the stories, the legends that made up what became part
of the Biblical narrative. So you know, they're all different

(25:22):
with different functions. Uh. You know that some of referring
to rebellious angels that come out of that Youkian tradition,
and then you know some have become the again. You know,
with Satan, we already know we've talked a lot about
in previous seasons about how you know, he was Satan

(25:46):
is really more of a title that sort of became
morphed into the name a proper name, but it didn't
start out that way. But no, these are all different concepts.
They're not They're not the same thing with different names.
It's it's it's it's different concepts.

Speaker 6 (26:07):
Because in the research for my book, which is almost done, uh,
I was kind of having to juggle with if they
were meant to be just different names or if they
were from like various different cultures that just came together
within the Bible and the deudochemical books.

Speaker 1 (26:26):
Yeah, I mean it. It's sorry. This screen just messed
up on me again. What what did you say? Can
you repeat that again? Brandon? I'm sorry, Uh, pretty much.

Speaker 6 (26:37):
Doing the research for my book, I was wondering if
these figures were entirely different from different cultures, or if
they just kind of molded together into one figure that we.

Speaker 1 (26:49):
All came It's kind of a little bit of both,
you know. I think what you're dealing with is, of course,
there's different encounters with Eve, different ways in which evil
could be experienced through people in different parts of time
from their own various vantage points, and so that defines

(27:14):
I think starting point for how some of these ideas
and concepts become the individual entities or personalities or characters
that we then assigned to them. In the modern era,
we're doing the same thing now, and I think you
could argue that in another thousand years, two thousand years

(27:34):
of Christianity, there'll be a very different model again for
how the Church deals with evil, or how it definds
evil or speaks of evil. It's already starting to change.
There's many places within the framework of Catholicism that no
longer recognizes the devil as a as an actual fallen

(28:01):
angel being in that in the sense that I think
the Church tends to reflect on that as it's more
of an archetype of of you know, again getting back
to really the more old, the older Jewish Yeta horror concept.
There's a lot of places within I think there's a

(28:24):
lot of places within the the the overall biblical history
where you see this happen. So it's kind of how
the Church, the the you know, these things evolve organically.

(28:46):
You know, you were talking about on the network today
the U You had a question on the network or
is April orre You responded, I couldn't remember, Yeah, that
you had a question about this that was kind of
similar to this. Wait a second, Father, Chris is trying
to come back in. Let's see if we can get
it back in here. Sorry, I'm still a bitter bit distracted.

(29:07):
You're still green screen. Father, I don't know what's going
on there. Let me unmutub But I still don't have
a picture for you, no I So it's definitely on
your side. Yeah, all right, Well.

Speaker 7 (29:22):
Guess I'll just keep playing around you carry on, all right,
let's do that. Let's do that. So let's do this
and see if this helps. I gotta figure this out here.
It's so crazy.

Speaker 1 (29:37):
Okay, sorry guys, sorry everyone, but this is this is
kind of a test run today. It is I might
just have.

Speaker 3 (29:47):
To restart my whole computer, so I will come back
on the show in the next hour.

Speaker 1 (29:53):
Okay, all right, that sounds that sounds good. That sounds good. Okay,
So does that answer the question. I know it got
kind of sideline there, so.

Speaker 6 (30:05):
Yes, I think you're mentioning the question I'd asked about
the history of worshiping God and how many people kind
of see they started off as a storm deity.

Speaker 5 (30:16):
Was that what you're referring to?

Speaker 1 (30:17):
Yes, Oh, that's what it was. Yes, the storm deity thing.
Theology or evolves organically. Religion evolves organically. All religions today
in the modern era can trace their origins back to
some kind of or some form of animism. All right,
and so you're going to have these variations that evolve

(30:41):
into concepts as people become more enlightened. And it's kind
of by design, by divine design, because God sort of
reaches out to us and speaks to us and reveals
himself to us in time in a very slow, methodical process.
And so as that revelation occurs and we learn more
about Him, what happens is we try to apply our

(31:03):
understanding of where we're at religiously or spiritually to those revelations,
and it changes as the understanding of God changes. But
that's the way it's natural, that's the way it's kind
of supposed to be. So it's not a bad thing,
even if it is a bit confusing I think for

(31:24):
some people, but it's it's not a bad thing.

Speaker 5 (31:30):
And I guess our third question for this segment has
to do with archetypes.

Speaker 6 (31:35):
So if we create a relationship with the archetypes through
the Terror deck, is the relationship always going to be there,
like even if you buy a new deck and consecrate
or activated.

Speaker 1 (31:46):
Yes, I mean, because the relationship with the archetypes is
not the deck. You're not having the relationship with a
bunch of plastic cards or pieces of paper or something.
Your your your relationship is with the archetypes, which is
already built within your own psychology. You know, we already

(32:07):
have a relationship with the archetypes. What we don't have
is a foundational understanding of the archetypes.

Speaker 2 (32:15):
So just like a tool to communicate.

Speaker 1 (32:18):
Yes, it's a way of trying to I think it's
a tool to make sense of the data and to
make it. I think it's considered sort of like a
rubric for understanding it. It helps to break you down
in a way that makes it understandable by creating categories
that can be learned and memorized and then understood, and

(32:39):
then it sort of becomes an alphabet that allows you
to speak the language. But you know, the relationship's already there,
is already built within us, So I think to a
certain degree, you know it's important to realize that. But
that's not to assume though, that if he keeps around

(33:00):
from deck to deck, that you're going to get the
same results from deck to deck, because the relationship to
the archetypes will definitely form around your categorical understanding of them.
So if you learn on one deck until you really

(33:21):
learn a new deck, the previous deck is probably going
to be more effective for you in terms of archebook communication,
just because they are going to be the symbols that
your brain more immediately responds to. Because that's what it knows.
So it's kind of like again, like different languages, different dialects.

(33:43):
That's even better, that's a better way to put it,
because it is the same language. It's different dialect though,
So just because you know one dialect doesn't mean you're
going to fully be fluent in another one. So you've
got to look at each of the cards, each of
the different decks of Tarot as different dialects of the
archetypal Lane language. And if you go to another deck,
you're going to kind of have to learn that new

(34:04):
dialect if you want to use it and get proficient
with it. But you don't need to. You know, the
deck itself is not where the relationship.

Speaker 5 (34:14):
Is the examples of the different dialects.

Speaker 6 (34:18):
So that between like the crowd deck and the right
weight as different.

Speaker 1 (34:22):
Dialects, yeah, exactly, because they do have a different way
of approaching the same archeteze, and so it won't be
exactly the same. And so a person that is very
fluent in the right way is not who has never
seen or touched Crowley's deck will not be able to

(34:42):
use Crowley as effectively as the right weight. Since the
writer weights what they know.

Speaker 5 (34:49):
So it is the it's the crowdy deck that holds
more of the symbolism in the right way.

Speaker 1 (34:54):
Correct. I would say that it's it's a more symbolically
provocative deck, which makes it far more in my opinion,
more effective. But there are people that will soddenly, you know,
absolutely disagree with that. You know, they'll just be like,
absolutely not, it's it's it's I tried to use it.
James James Ferrera who's on this show, it does. I

(35:18):
think it does. But James, who's been on this show
talking about the tarot before, has said he's tried to
use the Crawley to second, he just can't make a
connection with it the same way that he does with
some of the other ones. And he has a lot
of different necks. He buys several kinds, he collects them.

(35:39):
So you know, it's because what your brain has latched
onto as far as the symbols that understand these things
to be, it's going to be an easier way to
communicate and and it would rather use what it knows,
and it's more comfortable using what it knows.

Speaker 2 (35:57):
And abolism is the same, but intervet through different styles
of art. Correct, which is what you taught us in class.

Speaker 1 (36:04):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, that's exactly how it is. So so
yeah you can, but you could. That's not to discourage
one from using multiple decks, if if if they I
mean I do, but I mean, when I have very
serious questions, I tend to stick to only the crowbably
toot deck. That's the one that I can be most
dependent upon. But if I want to play with ideas,

(36:26):
I might use different ones depending And I have different
ones for different reasons, because I find that each each
deck also has a different personality, and that different personality
can come through and perhaps better respond to certain things,
certain types of questions than other things or other types
of questions. Same thing when you're dealing with different oracles

(36:50):
rooms for example, e ging as another. These are all
oracles that are ultimately using the same archetypes, perhaps not
the same family of archetypes, not the same number of them.
Obviously there's not going to be seventy eight runs, but

(37:11):
the same core archetypal patterns are still present there, just
in a slightly different way. So that is also a
different personality. So I tend to go to ruins with
certain issues. Fucker is back. It worked, It worked. Well,
he doesn't. He doesn't have a microphe. Let me give

(37:31):
him a microphone. Here we go. You were back. Yes,
it's nice to see you again. Now, if I could only,
if I could only fix my promt so your your
your background is funny. Do you want that? Do you
want to?

Speaker 3 (37:49):
I got you okay behind me?

Speaker 1 (37:51):
Okay, that's fine. I didn't know if that was like
a problem or if that's something that you wanted. But
I want you to be aware of Okay, good.

Speaker 3 (37:58):
How's the volume because people was saying it was booming
before I just changed it to I've taken the input
level down.

Speaker 1 (38:05):
You were saying you were too loud. Yeah, you sound great,
And I mean I didn't notice anything wrong on my end.
And the sound, the visual sound detection here is showing
you we're in the same range that we are, so
I think we're okay cool. Yeah, okay. I haven't fixed
my problem yet. We're still on split screen. Unfortunately, I

(38:26):
don't know what's going on problems. By the time I
fixed a problem, there's like five new ones, so I
never can catch up. I can never catch up.

Speaker 3 (38:36):
I was I'm sorry in the middle of in the
middle of a four but when Jamie was talking about
keeping on driving even with the warning lights on. Otherwise
you'd never drive anywhere in a public, publicly vehicle. But
I was watching another episode of NYPD Blue and one
of the detective comes in and he's covered in the

(38:57):
ink from the typewriter, and I remember, like, the first
cases I ever wrote were.

Speaker 2 (39:02):
On yeah with the carbon paper.

Speaker 3 (39:07):
Yeah, yeah, that's how I started off to so we
have problems with that, and these are just the new
version of your fingers.

Speaker 2 (39:16):
You know, I had stuck it white out stocking right out.

Speaker 1 (39:21):
Yeah yeah, So I I think, I don't know, let
me try it doing this and see if it's a
little bit. I think, yeah, this is okay.

Speaker 2 (39:32):
Is a fresh question in uh the chat?

Speaker 1 (39:35):
What is it?

Speaker 2 (39:35):
Let's go for it if you don't mind, Brandon, I think.

Speaker 1 (39:40):
We answered all the questions from the done.

Speaker 2 (39:42):
He asked, is end of time something that will actually happened?
And if it is, is there expect is there expectations
that we will actually see it coming? Or well we
always expect that another generation will experience it, or is
it going to be a oh crap, it really happened experience?

Speaker 1 (40:00):
Well, the end times is happening now it's been happening
for the last two thousand years about I mean, the
end Times started when Jesus descended and the tongues of
fire descended on the apostles, and the church, you know,
was completely empowered and formed as soon as we entered
into the church. The Church is the end Times strategy.

(40:20):
So we have been the end Times this entire time,
which is why the apostles thought that Jesus might return
in their life. I'm just like people today are convincing
he's returning in theirs. The fact of the matter is,
though by the virtue of the way Christ operates, in
the way that theology explains the way He operates the world.
If you're talking about end times in terms of the

(40:41):
world ending, which is I think what people really mean
when they say that that Jesus is going to come
back and end the world. The world will not end
as long as there's one person still worth saving. There's
the whole point of existing sin is salvation, so it

(41:04):
will not end until there's no one left to save.
So either everybody gets saved or everybody that will be
saved will get saved. And those who reject salvation reject
salvation and if there's nobody left to save, then there
is nothing left for this you know, this world to do,
because this is the only reason why this world is
given the grace to continue. Otherwise he would have wiped

(41:26):
it out by now. And that's looking at from a
linear perspective, saying that this is you know specifically, you know,
from our vantage point, how are.

Speaker 2 (41:34):
We and there's a global tragedy, there's always several groups
that are like, this is it.

Speaker 1 (41:39):
And that's been going on for thousand, that's been going
on for the entire left of the church. They thought,
try to predict what God's going to do in the
Middle Ages, when we went from the year nine ninety
nine to one thousand, they thought that was the end.
They did, and just like we thought, you know, why
was going to end us? Remember that one people are
superstitious bunch, and just because their Christian doesn't make them

(42:00):
less superstitious. And even if the church's teaching us about
not being superstitious, that doesn't stop them from being. So
so we's gonna bring this about. We're going to know, Yeah,
I mean, if you're talking about the end, it will
be over, you know, I mean, it's not gonna be
something that you look for and you're like, maybe this
is it. I mean we're in end times. Okay, so

(42:21):
that's why the world is so okaotic. It's been chaotic
for two thousand years, though it is it is Okay,
we'll talk more about this when we come back after
the break.

Speaker 8 (42:30):
Don't go away, Sasso faster as fast.

Speaker 9 (44:50):
As fast also.

Speaker 10 (44:58):
S as fast that he had to hard to the far.

Speaker 11 (45:42):
See the lights, Leah sid I'm going to get there
and hope we will meet there.

Speaker 9 (46:13):
The past has many persons pass pselfs castle class passos.

Speaker 10 (46:58):
Passed like.

Speaker 1 (47:08):
Far she the light.

Speaker 11 (47:15):
Only I'm going to get there and hope we will
meet there.

Speaker 9 (48:07):
Last pacem pacems trans past passes does not plasm pSer

(49:51):
psal pas.

Speaker 4 (50:27):
Please not a.

Speaker 9 (50:52):
St pas nos. No persons as ploofly flofly bly f.

Speaker 4 (52:15):
Nothing.

Speaker 1 (53:00):
Welcome back, everyone to the second hour of Vestiges After Dark,
Season eleven, episode one. Maybe I should call this episode
zero since it's such a test run. I still don't
think we've gotten the video corrected, but I think the
show is mostly on the road now, so we're getting
into the good stuff. You can start probably try calling in.

(53:23):
We'll sleave that and works. The emport calls Zato two
three two one zero zero seven three. That's Ato two
three two one zero zero seven three. You can also
call us internationally for free on Skype, just style I
of the Seer. On Skype, call E y E O
F T H E S E E R and we'll
bring you on. You can also, of course, ask your

(53:46):
questions out throughout the various platforms being on TikTok, Instagram,
Facebook or YouTube, even Twitch. If you're there, I don't
think it's name one there, but were there. If you're not,
don't go away. The thing is we've gone. I'm about

(55:16):
to go through each and every one of these and
turn off that extra microphone for some reason. I don't
even know why it is there. But I don't use
this view very often. It's only when I have something
to show you up boss that I put this one on.
And there's also the solo one. There's probably a little
echo there too, I bet. Yeah. I use these too
for showing you something up close, if like I'm doing

(55:39):
a visual aid or whatever. But they all have this
other microphone set to. I think it's the computer, so
I think that's what was going on before we should
be good. The only last one I have to do
is the one for the closing screen, and I'll picture
that when we're at the end of the show. But

(55:59):
I have not been able to figure out what's going
on with why the speaker isn't coming up on screen?
Can we see if I did that?

Speaker 4 (56:06):
Right?

Speaker 1 (56:07):
Father? Could you say something? I want to see if
it switches over? Yeah, no, it's not doing it. It's
just not no, no, let me try this remove all
but like okay, but now let's try it all right,
but now it's not. Now it's not putting us on
say it now, it's just father.

Speaker 2 (56:27):
And his hair is perfect.

Speaker 1 (56:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (56:29):
Yeah, it.

Speaker 3 (56:32):
Just happens.

Speaker 4 (56:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (56:37):
Yeah, I'm telling you. That's mess up your had, doesn't it. Okay,
So what we're going to do we're all going all
over the place. Now, what we're going to do is
we're just going to keep it in in this three
person screen and it's just going to have to be good,
you know, for the time being. It's the best I
can do right now.

Speaker 3 (56:57):
It's by the way, I was just it was funny.
I can't remember her name. I wish I could. I
was intrigued by her. Uh, the woman that was talking
about astrology and that sort of thing, and yeah, yeah,
and she said, oh, that would explain the hair. It's
so funny because I think so little about it. Everywhere

(57:18):
I've gone people mentioned my hair and even she couldn't
couldn't resist it. I don't quite know what it is,
but I hope.

Speaker 1 (57:29):
Yeah, I think it is. I mean, I mean it,
you know, I mean it's it's kind of.

Speaker 2 (57:34):
It's a military style cut. I think that's.

Speaker 1 (57:39):
Yeah. Yeah, it's gotta you know, it's got some style
to it.

Speaker 3 (57:42):
Direction, it's easy, it's low maintenance.

Speaker 1 (57:50):
It doesn't look it. I think that's probably what it
is is. It doesn't look low mat Yeah, okay, this view,
well this yourple is right. There's a good view for
open lines. But honestly, I do prefer when we have
guests that I can switch back and forth. So I
don't know how to fix it, because everything that I

(58:11):
have done to set it up should have worked.

Speaker 3 (58:14):
And it's I suspect because you have to change so
many settings after zoom is already live. The one thing
you can't re say expect that once you retart, you.

Speaker 1 (58:23):
Think it'd be normal. It might be that it might
be that it just hasn't reset itself yet, so that's very,
very possible. We'll just leave it alone. Unfortunately, the chat's
going to sometimes right up in Brandon's face there. I
can't fix that because you know, okay, whatever you can see,
we're all here.

Speaker 2 (58:42):
I don't see any questions in the chat yet that
we've covered. So Brandon, do you have any more?

Speaker 5 (58:48):
I don't have a question. But we were discussing the
end times before left on Bright and I think it
was yesterday. One of the biblical scholars I watched was
addressing a video where someone claiming that Musk was the Antichrist.

Speaker 1 (59:04):
Of course, what's the Antichrist? Anyone you don't like is
the Antichrist. They've been playing this game for agents. I
want to say Ronald Reagan with the Antichrist at one time.
You know, there are several others obviously down the Trump
has taken that position. Obama. Obama's been the Antichrist a
few times. Depends on you know, if you don't like them,

(59:25):
they're in a position of power or at least invisible,
you know, right up in the in the in the
front of everyone's visibility, then typically that's going to qualify
you as the Antichrist. You know, I've even called it.
I've even been called the Antichrist. I've been called it.

Speaker 3 (59:44):
I mean, I think we're right to laugh it off
when it's just a political kind of you know, anyone
I don't like is the Antichrist. But there is a
serious undertow to this, which is the reason that the
people are so glib about using the term antichrist on
really what are on on a eschatological scale, trifling matters

(01:00:08):
as to who is the president of view. It's because
of an actual fundamental lack of belief that there is
such a concept that these things are really serious, that
there is a heaven and hell, that there's a God.
It's really because of a lack of belief in faking
those things that they're so quick to cast around terms
like this. And many times it seems to be the

(01:00:29):
people who claim the badge of religion, particularly evangelical pressure,
but not just them. I don't want to just pick
on them that use these terms so lightly. I think,
you know, if your faith was deeper, you wouldn't be
so quickly used terms like that that are actually very
very serious.

Speaker 1 (01:00:47):
I agree with that, you know, I mean most though,
when you really think about most of the reprehensible behavior
of people that claim to be a faith, you can
find that it's actually the result of a lack of faith.
You know, I mean right down to this one saved,

(01:01:08):
always saved kind of notion. That's that's a lack of faith. Honestly, Yeah,
you know, it really ges think about it, because if
their faith was really genuine, they would understand that they
have to work out their own salvation. But because it's not,
they have to fail safes to feel comfortable, to feel

(01:01:29):
to feel good in the midst of what makes them
truly uncomfortable. Deep down. I find that that's at the
heart of a lot of people that get into some
of these more radical versions of Christianity that give all
of us a bad name. I'm very hard on evangelical
christian in particularly reason I think it. I don't think
there's any ever been a branch of Christianity, if you

(01:01:51):
can even call it a branch of Christianity. It's deviated
so much i'mless so sure it is anymore. But I
would say that there's never been a branch that's done
more damage to the faith than they have. Because a
lot of the reasons why people hate us so much
today is not the things that you would typically think, like,

(01:02:13):
you know, being too I don't know, you know, to
holier than now and all these things that people associate
with people of faith. It's really more along the lines
of this really bad behavior, like you know, getting into
people's faces, trying to shove the Bible down their throats,
acting like you're so much better than the rest of it,

(01:02:34):
you know, oh very much, so very much so yeah,
and that turns a lot of people off. And then
when you look at how they do their how they
do church again, I'm not sure you can call it church,
but they do, you know, with the rock bands and
the parties and the celebration. It's like a nightclub in there,
you know. And again it's all field, absolutely it is.

Speaker 3 (01:02:59):
And you know, real faith is, you know, a real
engagement with the faith is messy. It's confused. Like anyone
watching this show, who's thinking, gosh, I really struggle and fight,
and I feel down caps and I don't think I'm
good enough, or I don't think I have enough faith,
or I just want to say you're on the right lines.

Speaker 2 (01:03:19):
Yes, you're not struggling, you're not getting the assignment.

Speaker 3 (01:03:22):
Yeah, that's right, and this kind of I'm at this,
you know, I mean, this euphoric state. But there's nothing
wrong with having periods of that. You know, we all
need a bit of that. I mean, you know, I know,
Bishop Bryan, when you get the privilege of being a
solemn high mass, and even though we all know all
masses are just as special, which used to say, there's

(01:03:42):
something of the Christian life. We know that, like you know,
when there's a good organist and a decent choir and
you know, everyone knows that that the lizzage just flows.
We feel the kind of euphoria of this is isn't
this great? Isn't this It's a blessing? But actually, but
I don't there only the moments of basically, I don't

(01:04:04):
know those moments where we can just feel a bit,
a bit encouraged to pass on the back. But the
most part of the Christian life, but not just a
Christian life, any life of faith is about persevering with difficulty. Yeah,
so if you feel about that, don't be discouraged. That's
how that's the norm. And we're all in the same
boat if we take it seriously.

Speaker 1 (01:04:24):
Yeah, yes, and I mean, I think Riverboat says we've
come full circle to the last part of my question.
His question, of course we will always as submits a
problem for another generation, not a questions and observation. But
I think it's worth a comment, though I'm not sure
it's a problem, you know. I think the way that
we need to look at it is, look whether or

(01:04:47):
not the world ends in this dramatic way with this
generation here is the one that will experience that. Or
whether or not it is something that has happens, you know,
one hundred years from now, one thousand years from now,
ten thousand, one hundred thousand years from now is irrelevant

(01:05:07):
to the fact that when you die, it's over for you. Okay,
So the fact is we all will possibly it, yes,
every generation everyone. Well, yes, So it doesn't really matter
if you experience the end times. We still have to
experience the the the We still have to face death

(01:05:28):
either way. Either way. That's the big lie of of
of the rapture, okay, is that they think that they
get they get out of jail free card. You know,
they're better than Jesus, don't you know, because Jesus had
to die. But they don't you know, they don't. They
don't have to die, you know. So it's it's it's
kind of again, it's evangelical arrogance, it's a lack of humility.

(01:05:49):
As you said, father, it's the same kind of thinking.
But the fact is, no, we all have to face death,
whether it be at the end of the world or
whether it be individually in the natural course of one's
life of eighty ninety one hundred years or less. Okay,
so it doesn't really matter, you know, when the end

(01:06:09):
of everything is, because when you die, it's the end
for you. And if you're not prepared for that, well,
that's where it becomes problematic. If you are prepared for that,
how you try and predict it. Even a lord said, yeah,
the point that was beig revealable. I think the whole

(01:06:33):
point to why Jesus revealed it was to let us
know that there was a plan here, that there was
purpose to all of this, that it wasn't just you know,
misery for the sake of it, That there was actually
a direction that was being followed. It was never given
to us as a as a some kind of prophecy
that we need to kind of decode and figure out

(01:06:55):
and see what was it this guy? Is that the crisis?

Speaker 4 (01:06:58):
This?

Speaker 1 (01:06:58):
You know, remember, there is no antichrist. Anybody that or
acts contrary to the Christian life. Anyone who asks contrary
to the mind of Jesus is an antichrist. In fact,
in almost every place except for anything one in scripture,
maybe two. I think it's one, though it's plural. It's

(01:07:19):
used in a plural most of the time. Antichrists. There's
one Antichrist that became associated, of course with Revelation and
the Beast, and people thinking that Revelation was talking about
some kind of encoded event that's going to happen at
some time down the road, when it was it was
something that was happening in their time to be able

(01:07:39):
to talk about the the the issues they were having
with Rome without being considered treasonous, you know, so they
wrote in a code that only the other Christians don't understand.
Apocalyptic language is something that Jews could understand. Gentile is
not so much, you know.

Speaker 3 (01:07:56):
But I think kind of there's sort of two wrong
visions that compete, and this is both inside and outside
the church. But one vision is the identic vision. You
know that somehow we're going to return to Eden. Well,
and that can seem appealing to people, are there's no
hunger and death and you've got everything you need and

(01:08:17):
blah blah blah. But of course you haven't got free will.
And in a sense you're sort of like a hamster
in a cage, you know. So that's not true freedom,
and that's why that's why Eden was, you know, the
story of the book Genesis reveals to us why that

(01:08:40):
state is not the way for human beings to have
perfect freedom. The competing vision is is you know, the
myth of Sphus, Sisyphus the the the story of Sisyphus
is that his only job is to roll the bolder
up the hill and and then just watch it roll
down again and then roll the bold up the hill,
which is a vision of hell like you know, and.

Speaker 1 (01:09:05):
Or running a church.

Speaker 3 (01:09:09):
Exactly. So the French philosopher that taught philosopher can't remember,
but the Camu, Albert Camu the you and of course
his absurdist position is to say, well, we just have
to imagine that Sisyphis is happy.

Speaker 1 (01:09:30):
You know.

Speaker 3 (01:09:31):
This is this is the image of the sort of
ultrasecularist to you know, people that reject God and the
antidote of this in terms of the Cross, the Resurrection,
the end times is to say we're neither. We're neither
looking back to a time before there was any sacrifice, pain,

(01:09:51):
or effort, nor to an unending misery of monotony until
until sun goes supern we're all obliterated. Neither of those
things are true, And the problem is is that Western
culture is brought between those two positions. You have the
sort of polyamorish attitude of those who think that we've
got some naive return to a naive identic state, but

(01:10:16):
the majority who really are preaching the meaningless existence like
that of Sister Us. The Christian Gospel says neither. We
are in fact struggling, dragging across the hill, sharing a
burden which God overwhelmingly takes the yoke of in Christ,
but actually far from being something to be dreaded. The

(01:10:37):
fact that we're the end times is the exciting fulfillment
of that, because the challenge remains, and that when God
decides to end time and we exist in the glory
of Heaven, it won't be like Eden it will have been.
It's more like conquering Everest.

Speaker 1 (01:10:55):
Yeah it is. Yeah, and we don't want it to
be like Eden, and neither did pause, which is not
what the happy fault is all about. It was set up, really,
I think this way because it's only now that we
can come to know him freely, you know, and and

(01:11:15):
to be able to have intimacy by choice, whereas before,
you know, you don't. Really it's like a child that
doesn't have a choice as to who their parents are,
what they what's going to happen with their life. I mean,
I would think, you know, one of the things, you know,
being a Buddhist. Back in my Buddhist days, the thing
that bothered me the most about the religion, and bothered

(01:11:40):
me the most about the entire theology of Buddhism was
the idea of reincarnation, in the sense that even if
I don't have any recollection in any clearer sense of
anything that I done before, just the idea of endlessly

(01:12:03):
having to come back and relive and relearn and re
suffer the same things that I've learned to avoid now,
Like I've gotten pretty good at avoiding certain types of suffering,
the thought of having to go back, or how about
getting born into a family that abuses the hell out
of you, you know. I mean, everybody's family has had problems,

(01:12:26):
might have problems, but I can tell you I didn't
have to go through that as a child, thank God.

Speaker 2 (01:12:31):
And you don't realize how blessed your childhood was to
talk to people, that's true.

Speaker 1 (01:12:36):
Yeah, when you do the work we do, you find
that so much can be traced back to these experiences.
And I'm just thinking, God, can you imagine that, you know,
you die in this life now, and then you're reborn
with no memory of anything here, very little that you
can actually take with you except karma as far as

(01:12:56):
the Buddhist theology goes. And so if you didn't live
a terribly good life, then you don't have a whole
lot to look for to become And so you hat
all these problems, have to learn to get around them
all over again. I don't want to live this again.
I mean, one time it wasn't nice.

Speaker 3 (01:13:11):
I think that is an example of I think that's
exactly what that is.

Speaker 1 (01:13:15):
It is, that's hell. It is hell. It really is
a hell. So that was always very uh. I mean,
and let's be clear to Buddhist at heel too. I mean,
the whole point is to get off. So Sara, you know,
there's a there really isn't heaven in hell. In Buddhism,
there's nirvana and some Sara and some Sara is this

(01:13:36):
It is endlessly doing this and making no progress, and
Nirvana is waking up. So you never do this again.
But you know that's kind of uh, you know, I
guess it's heaven in hell in a way. It's not.
It's not a complete, you know, different idea, but it
just it seems quite horrific to have to lift this again.

(01:13:56):
I would not want to do it again. And like these,
like these ager so we sometimes have on the show
they talk about reincarnation and so you know these see
the office Theosophis that we've had on when they're like, oh,
you know you you made a soul contract. Do they
think it's great?

Speaker 3 (01:14:12):
It's like, no, it's awful.

Speaker 1 (01:14:14):
Some things. It's awful. You don't want to come back
is not a good thing, not even in the East. Like, oh,
you choose your life, and you choose your you choose
your parents. It's like you do.

Speaker 3 (01:14:28):
You do?

Speaker 1 (01:14:30):
I'm sorry, I just that's a bunch of crap, you know,
And yeah, no, there's no freaking way because that's it's
not even logical. But I'm not going to get into
all that. You guys want to get into that tonight.
It's open lines, open topics, and whatever is on your mind.
I guess I should put the phone number up on
the screen. I kind of forget to do that. Everything's

(01:14:53):
just so oh, it's even gone, like the that it's gone,
but there is, it's gone. Let's see if I can
get it back. Uh no, it's gone. It's oh no,
here it is now. Okay, okay, it's back there. You go.
You can call the show if you talk to us tonight.

(01:15:13):
I can't guarantee you work. I mean, we're just swinging
it here. I use it took me years to get
this down to something that was moderately functional, and then
it was all just wiped away, just completely destroyed. So
I apologize for the lack of professionalism tonight and probably
hearing me shout out a few vulgarities when I was

(01:15:34):
trying to get it working. But that's why I am,
and I don't. I don't hide any of my reality,
and neither should you. So that's the way itst what
we got here. The silent mystics is we are living
this hell over and over again until we purify our
mind to wake up. That's why we have data Voo,
because of our past lives. The cyclist some soura is hell. Yeah, well,

(01:15:54):
that is very much a Buddhist perspective. I think it's
very accurately put in Buddhist terms that yes, there is
no hell in some kind of like place that one
goes to be punished for sins. It's truly the drudgery
of being trapped in the cycle of birth and rebirth

(01:16:16):
and having to live a existence of suffering until one
learns to awaken from it. So I think there's beauty
in that, and I wouldn't say that, you know, heaven
is far from that. You know, we don't really exactly
understand existence, which next week, by the way, hope to
give you a much better show next week. But next
week we do have a topic. It's not going to

(01:16:37):
be a guess. It's going to be like again a
soft kind of trial run to see if we can
get the show working the way it's supposed to be,
the way it used to. But next week we're going
to be talking about theories, kind of a new series,
theories of existence. And what we're going to be dealing
with next week is the simulation theory, this concept in

(01:17:03):
modern physics that because there's a lot of interesting parallels
to virtual reality that I think not until we have
the technology of virtual reality and the complex video games
that we have now did we ever see the parallel.
But it's definitely there. We're going to talk at length
about that next week, and we're going to talk about

(01:17:25):
the different theories and and and perhaps even more frighteningly so,
the different possibilities or implications of what those theories might means.
We're not going to get into that tonight. I want
to save it for next week. But I do want
to warn those of you who are you know, regular
listeners and listen to every episode of this show, which
I'm greatly much, very much thankful for greatly so I

(01:17:49):
will tell you, but I will say that if you
are of a weaker sensibility, or if you are somebody
that is struggling with things like faith, I would say
to be very very careful with watching that show next
week because you're going to, I think, run into some

(01:18:12):
challenges because we're going to definitely work outside of the
paradigm of the Christian worldview. Next week, we're going to
challenge ourselves to sort of think outside that box. We're
not going to hide behind the safety of theology and say, well,
our faith is We're going to put ahead of this

(01:18:33):
for the purposes of this exercise. We're going to immerse
ourselves in the horrors that simulation theory kind of implies
in many ways, because it is a kind of a
horrific theory. Honestly, it's not a good theory. It does
make you wonder though, because there's so much clear evidence

(01:18:54):
that something strange like that is going on. But we'll
going into that next week. But just wanting to warn
you ahead of time, Okay, just want to warn you
ahead of time so that there's no concern that you know, well,
I just I just don't want you all to to
be uh. I don't want you all to be sidelined

(01:19:16):
by it, because it's going to be a content that
we're not typically presenting on this show in a way
that we don't usually present it. But calling in from
the nine three one area code in Tennessee, We're hoping
that you're on the air with us. Hello, how you.

Speaker 12 (01:19:30):
Doing, I'm good.

Speaker 1 (01:19:33):
This is April April, we thank you for calling in
to do the test for on it sounds oh I
can hear you lighting clear? Get everybody else? Yeah, okay, great, Okay,
So April, do you have a question or a comment
or story?

Speaker 3 (01:19:45):
I have?

Speaker 12 (01:19:46):
Ay, Okay. So it's kind of a hypothetical thing that
me and Brandon have been talking about lately. We're going
on Friday to an investigation at a that in breakfast
that is well known for being having a lot of
paranormal activity. Okay, And it's been on several TV shows,

(01:20:09):
but most recently it's been on Portals to Hell. And
they were talking about they were talking about, let's see
there was a I guess there was. They hadn't They
have a medium who comes on there, And on this
particular show, she said there was an elemental with the
name of Hilla Shawl or something like that. I don't

(01:20:31):
remember exactly what it was. And so they looked up
that name and I found out, like from s Marian
or something like that, there's a word that is similar
to that that means something related to money laundry. Well,
we know from the history that there was a preacher
who was at the church like across the Street who

(01:20:54):
hung himself because he got caught money laundering. Okay, So
kind of my question or my theory or what we're
wanting to try to investigate is could that potentially be
lack a projection of either the creature being feeling guilty
because of what I've done or because of the story
and everybody else kind of thinking that's what happened.

Speaker 1 (01:21:18):
It could be either or both. It's it'd be a
combination of both factors if both are true. If people, well,
let's put this, if it did happen historically speaking, and
people know it happened or believe it happened, and they're
putting that into or projecting it into the situation there,
then that is that is like a trifecta really of

(01:21:40):
of of making it happen. But it doesn't necessarily need
to be historically true if there's enough belief or legend
around it or yeah, it creates an egger gored that
will ironically take on the name of even sometimes literally
the name of the very concept that it represents. And
so if you're talking about money laundering as a concept,

(01:22:03):
then this becomes, through the process of myth, a projection
or personification of money laundering itself, so it becomes a
literally a being that will represent itself this way, which
for all intents and purposes, make no mistake about it
is absolutely a demon. That is a demon. And that's

(01:22:24):
why sometimes demons that we encounter in the field actually
do go by the names of the things that they
represent instead of any kind of like historical name or
a biblical name, or something from some medieval grimoire or
even something that might have some kind of like being
in Latin or Aramaic or something. I mean, luck, I've

(01:22:46):
said so many times we've had demons refer to themselves
as lust. We've had demons refer to themselves as murder,
We've had demons refer to themselves as pedophilia. I mean,
that's not a name. But they rep resent. They become
a projection of the action itself, and that can absolutely
possess a person and then that person becomes uh entangled

(01:23:12):
with that pattern of archeiteptal energy and then can start
to carry out the misdeeds of whatever is that it represents.
So I think this sometimes happens when you hear these real,
we really weird and radical stories of this, Like a
woman that you know this great mother. Everyone says that
she was a great mom, and then all of a
sudden she like drowns all her three kids in the

(01:23:34):
bathtub or puts them in the back of a car
and then drives the car into the river. You know,
I mean, these are things that actually happen. It's like,
what on earth is going on there? I would possess
somebody that's been taking care of their young kids, and
everyone seeses a good mom and you know, no no, no,
no red flags anywhere, no alarms, you know, ringing anywhere,

(01:23:56):
and then all of a sudden they commit an active murder.
It's almost as if they indeed become possessed by some
action of this very personified action. It changes who they
are for at least a period of time where they
carry out that. And I think is the reason why
it is so important to be spiritually fortified within oneself

(01:24:21):
and strengthened within oneself so that foreign elements like this,
the energy that's just out there in the ether that
we can come in contact with if we're weak, we
could absorb. Whereas you know, from a Christian vantage point, well,
I'm going to give you an esoteric Christian vantage point,
some of the properties that we take on in the Eucharus.
Some of that grace that we receive when we receive

(01:24:44):
the body and blood of Christ makes us like him.
So we sort of absorb the archetype of basis, which
is a very safe archetype to take on, a very
protective archetype to take on, which repels some of these
nastier things that we come in content with. And that's
literally the metaphysics of what protects us. That's actually the
grace working, is that you literally changed. In the Bible,

(01:25:06):
I mean, it doesn't even allude to that really basically
says this when it's you know, Philippians two five, let
this mind be in you. That is also in Christ
Jesus is. I've always remembered that because that's literally taking
on the archetype of Jesus, which changes your nature, and
so take eating, eating, consumption of the Eucharist changes your nature.

(01:25:27):
You're taking his body and blood and making it your own,
and that changes you. That's taking on the archetype of
salvation and the archetype of a perfection, which is a
much better one than murder or or or or baphilia
or something like that.

Speaker 2 (01:25:44):
You know, a lot of your super killers or or
murders of really hanus killings. A lot of times it
comes from someone who's broken in some way going through trauma.
They weren't able to deal with it, they have no
no support system. And you know, I've interviewed I've been

(01:26:07):
in an interview room with detectives on homicides and a
lot of it was domestic and a lot of these
folks were like, I saw red and I blacked out,
I woke up and I was I was standing over
with a knife. I mean a lot of times and
you think that they're all they're just saying that. No,
I mean, there's something to like you can look in
her eye and are like, I really don't know what

(01:26:28):
I did. I went, I went, everything went back.

Speaker 1 (01:26:32):
And see, that's the real scary thing about it, because
that's the very scary thing about it, because what we
end up thinking sometimes, I think when you look at
the horror movie films and all, you know, these exorcism
films as a sub genre, that kind of makes it
seem sort of dramatic and and and well maybe even

(01:26:53):
mellow dramatic over the top really where you could look
at this and say to yourself, this can't really be true,
and it's like, no, it's actually the reality of it's
much more horrifying because I actually give you the psychological
dynamics that prove it.

Speaker 3 (01:27:10):
I was just about to say, you know this, this
is exactly where psychology and spirituality, you know. And also
you know, we believe that Christ is present in the Eucharist,
in the in the Liturgy of the Eucharist in several ways,
obviously most profoundly the way you described, also present in

(01:27:30):
the person of the priest altrists, and also present in
the proclamation of the Gospel where we hear the words.
And it's that it's that interaction between you know, our
psychology gets shaped by that faith. And it's why you know,
as you know, I'm a big promoter in religion. True,

(01:27:57):
be religiously spiritual. That's a better way.

Speaker 1 (01:28:00):
That's a good way, because I don't think you can
have one without the other.

Speaker 3 (01:28:05):
Well, I agree, well you can. Unfortunately, if you have
spirituality about religion, then it's psychologically unstable by definition, you know.
And so like you said, that mind he knew that
is in Christ, Jesus, in Philippi and series. It might
be my favorite verse in the entire passages in the
whole Bible. You know, though, who was in the form

(01:28:25):
of God, who did not count the quality regard the
thing to be exploited, but rather emptied himself than became
the slave, you know. And that word is ic kinnotic
love and self emptying. And it is that interaction between, yes,
our lives and our psychology with the mind of Christ
which comes to us through through the mind of the Church.

(01:28:46):
Because those things are almost inseparable.

Speaker 2 (01:28:51):
And so.

Speaker 3 (01:28:52):
That's the whole person. You know, if you're thinking, why
do I do this born and every Sunday, First of all,
it's not the it's mindset to have. Actually, this is why,
and this is where because I'm a big believer, as
you know, in in the value of psychologists and psychiatrists
and councilors, uh and priests sit within that, within that

(01:29:17):
mode of being, because we're trying to engage spiritually in
what leads to better ways of thinking, you know, more
ordered ways of thinking. And yes, that benefits the person,
but it also benefits what we would say, the entire
kingdom of heaven. But it certainly benefits the people around
you in your life and and That's that's why it

(01:29:40):
takes discipline, right, Yeah, people thinking why ear do we
have this sort of religious element in terms of you know,
going through the same things every week and doing this
and that. You know, what's the point. That's the point
is to make sure you're anchored to the things that
lead to a healthy a way of thinking.

Speaker 1 (01:30:01):
Thank you James for that, Like, we appreciate that Facebook.
James is watching us on Facebook.

Speaker 4 (01:30:06):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:30:07):
I agree with everything you just said. And I think
that is a question that comes to the fact that
it came up in actually came up April. Are you
still on with us? By April you were asking in catechises.
I don't hope you don't mind me bringing this up,
but I think it's kind of relevant to this conversation.
You were asking about the meaning behind because April is

(01:30:31):
in it is in our catechism classes that we're offering
right now, and she asked about the rituals of the Mass,
and you know what they all mean. You know, what's
the why? Why is it set up this way? I
was explaining to the class that you know, it's a
way of taking on the authenticity of just not just

(01:30:54):
reading the Bible or hearing about it from some preacher
that's talking to you for two hours, but rather a
way of actually experience it and experiencing it and living
it together as one community, as one entity as Christ
intended it to be. And so, you know, instead of
merely just praying a bunch of words. You know, you

(01:31:16):
use your eyes to view the icons and and and
and your eyes become a way of praying. You you
use your ears to pray when you're carrying the chance
and and the bells and the music and everything else.
The noses, yes, olfactory becomes a prayer when it smells
the incense, your your your sense of taste becomes the

(01:31:39):
prayer when you receive the Eucharist and you taste the
bread and wine as it's transubstantiated into the body and
blood of Christ. Even your sense of touch is is
is It becomes a prayer when you do the Sign
of Piece and you make contact with the person next
to you, whether you shake their hand or you embrace them,

(01:31:59):
or even when you do the sign of the cross.
These are physical ways of praying in a unified way.
It's not about repetition, uh, It's about it's about it's
about taking the community into the realm of the Divine
together and you're doing the same.

Speaker 2 (01:32:19):
Thing that those before you were doing hundreds and thousands.

Speaker 1 (01:32:23):
That's such a good point that you bring up to me,
because it really does.

Speaker 3 (01:32:27):
It gives you.

Speaker 2 (01:32:28):
I can tell you. Protestant, I went to church confirmed
in the Protestant Church, but I never ever felt the
connection to Christ in a Prostate church as I had
the first Mass I came to, even at the old
at the Old House. Yes, yes, when you're when you're
when you receive that Eucharist, I love if it's placebo,

(01:32:51):
whatever I feel it. I can feel the the surge
of energy when it goes down my throat and I
say that prayer in silence.

Speaker 3 (01:33:00):
You can think the whole church is there.

Speaker 1 (01:33:02):
Yeah, Church, past, present, in future.

Speaker 2 (01:33:08):
Everybody before you wish you and in the future they're
going to be doing the same thing.

Speaker 3 (01:33:13):
So and the point is when it comes to repetition,
because repetition, like thein repetition is the great catchphrase of
the Protestants that oppose things like that the Rosary and
what have you, is repetition is impossible. You can't have
the same moment again. So there is no repetition yes,

(01:33:37):
you may be doing something similar to what you've done
many times before. Rosary, I'm going to say the Maria
immediately following this Maria. But that is a new one
at a new in time, and a new opportunity to
love God, and a great example which Fulton Sheen gave
was arguing with the Protestant. He said, you know wife, Yes,
do you love your wife?

Speaker 1 (01:33:58):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (01:33:58):
Have you totally you love her?

Speaker 4 (01:33:59):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (01:34:00):
I tell early morning. Did you find that repetitive? No,
it's a new moment every time beside you.

Speaker 1 (01:34:11):
And conversely it conversely, it also works in reverse of
that because it also represents the eternal moment of the
eternal truth of something. But when you tell your wife
you love them, and you do it repetitively, as it
looks from moment to moment or even new moments or whatever,
it's also reinforcing that this is an eternal moment that

(01:34:32):
is just as real now as it was last time
I did it, and it will be just as real
next time I do it. It's the same condition that
lives on through the moments. That's something that doesn't change.
So you could almost look at it both ways, and
it means the same thing. Which is kind of how
eternity works, you know. And as I've said, I also
told my kid a Kumas this. I think this kind

(01:34:52):
of is earth shattering to people. But people are like, well,
you know when we talk about the fallen universe, you know,
the universe is broken, you know, because of sin. Like,
what exactly is broken about it other than the fact
that we all suffer and die. Well, it's the fact
that suffering and death are caused by passing of moments.

(01:35:15):
We go from the singular moment of wholeness of the
eternality of God, where there are no moments, there is
the past, present, futures, all one always was, always will be.
That's the alpha omega. That's what that is. That's why
we have these symbols throughout church, on vestments everywhere. Okay,
the moments time is the broken univers that is the

(01:35:37):
fallen universe. Time is the fall We shattered the universe.
Wider demons refer to themselves in the plural, usually because
they are fractured realities of a singular whole.

Speaker 13 (01:35:49):
Fallen angels absolutely solid political teaching. Absolutely Why is it
when you leave Eden you have to age and die? Yeah, Well,
because you're now you're now going through moments success. Yeah,
and those moments are actually breaking up. They're being further fractured,
which is what causes entropy. It's not just you know,

(01:36:11):
it's not holding together because it's fracturing more and more
age time. And don't believe me, Just talk to a
biologist about cell division. Talk to a biologist about what
causes aging. You know what causes aging, don't you. Yourselves
keep having to reproduce, and they don't do it as
well as they did the previous time they did it.
And as they continue to sell, divide, they get the

(01:36:33):
it gets worse and it starts to degrade the same way.
Try it for yourself on a printer, all right, Take
take a picture, a nice high definition picture.

Speaker 1 (01:36:42):
Put it on a copy machine. Okay, take a copy
of it, then take the copy, take a copy of it,
take a copy, and take the copy of Eventually you're
going to get just a broken up picture. If you
do it enough times, you're not even gonna be able
to recognize what it was.

Speaker 2 (01:36:55):
Or take a take a plated watch, shattered pieces and
then take a hand or beat both pieces until it's dust.

Speaker 1 (01:37:02):
Can you never know it was a plate, no, exactly.
So that's the fall in the universe, and that's caused
by time. If we were outside of time, we were
back in eternity and the perfection of eternity, then these
things can't break because there's no passage of time for
them to fall apart. And that's how it kind of works.

(01:37:22):
And that's why you know, when people talk about heaven
as a place where there's no sickness and death and
and there's only happiness, it's because these things are eternal.
They don't you don't lose it. It's like you gain
absolute perfect the perfection of happiness, but it doesn't wear out.
It's like you could be happy, but it's not going
to last. Right. You can be like, oh, I'm on vacation,

(01:37:43):
I got two weeks off. I can go to Las
Vegas and you know we're gonna have a really good time.
But you know what, because of the passage of time
and the fracture of the universe into these moments, there
will be a moment I guarantee it when you have
to come back home and go back to work and
then you happiness is over all. Right, you might look
back and be like that was a good time, but
you can't experience it anymore until you do it again.

(01:38:07):
And then you got to like build up time to
create more moments and then one day you can't do
it anymore.

Speaker 3 (01:38:14):
Has easy in fact time dependent. That's why it's fleeting.
Where is joy is not Joy is deeper than happiness,
and that's what we're to work for. And so yeah,
I mean proof of this, even if people don't accept
the Christian gospel is to say all of the most
important things in life. I've said this before because it's
just true. It's not my idea. All the most important

(01:38:36):
in life and not temporal love, kindness, freedom, truth that
they are. They are things that are eternal. They are
eternal principles because they're not that they are like you
said when you say your wife, you're going back to principle,
which is beyond you, beyond time, is beyond anything else.

(01:38:58):
So that's a perfect principle.

Speaker 1 (01:39:00):
So the really back into the mass or the order
of the Mass or you know, what was April's question
is that I think April is not gone, but April,
you know, to get back to that question, is that
we are we are trying to experience what eternity is

(01:39:27):
like by living a perfect moment every Sunday or every
time you even go to Mass, and you could live
that per moment every day if you have a parish
that's lucky enough to have daily masses, that's fulling to
the wayside I understand. I can't. I couldn't believe. I
was looking at the church that I used to teach
r CIA at when I was a seminarian, and when

(01:39:49):
I went there there were five priests and residence. Right
now there's only the pastor. Wow, that's it. Massive rectory
to big church, and he's there all by himself. Now,
you know, nobody's interested in in joining the church and

(01:40:10):
continuing on. And they don't see the value of it.
They don't support it, you know, and they just you know,
it's it's again. Even the church is subject to a
type of entropy that we are expected to participate and
to prevent. That's what preserves the church. It's not it's
not eternal by its own nature. It's eternal through us,

(01:40:32):
you know. And that's what the Christian obligation why it's
so important. Okay, that's a good this is good point.
Let's take our next break here. When we come back
more your questions and more conversation about whatever might be
on your mind. To go away.

Speaker 4 (01:44:12):
Don't do meant the word? Do do meant the world?

(01:44:54):
Don't you never be happy? Used to appear? Shot the
ampere shot.

Speaker 1 (01:45:02):
See a break?

Speaker 10 (01:45:05):
Will you catch me?

Speaker 2 (01:45:08):
Chee?

Speaker 13 (01:45:10):
I'm on my bone?

Speaker 4 (01:45:12):
So now chasing my lass?

Speaker 10 (01:45:15):
Will get to the Ulease not you.

Speaker 4 (01:45:21):
Ask me?

Speaker 3 (01:45:22):
Because I please?

Speaker 2 (01:45:26):
I thought you were a pun for me.

Speaker 4 (01:45:29):
That's why I kid you ever read me?

Speaker 3 (01:45:32):
Oh look god by the storm?

Speaker 4 (01:45:33):
You see so you meant the world to me? The world?

(01:45:57):
The world.

Speaker 1 (01:46:03):
That Welcome back everyone to the third and final hour

(01:48:18):
of Vestiges after Dark. This has been quite the season premiere,
I think. But you know we're here and we're having
a good time and it's a good conversation. Things are
kind of under control. I really just see two problems
I need to figure out before the next show. I
don't know fright how to do them, but we want
to figure it out. Everybody knows what a what a

(01:48:44):
what a key frame frequency is and how to change it?
Let me know, because I don't. I've never heard that before.
But YouTube is giving me this message. It says we
have a poor connection, but you guys are saying, well, okay,
so I don't know what's going on. It's line, I guess.
I also want to shout out to our fifty one
viewers on on TikTok thank you for joining us, and
I see super super duper social worker is given some

(01:49:07):
commentary out there on the chat. We have not missed
your comments. Thank you for what you have said there.
Time is the fall, that's right, yeah, canime is the fall? Okay,
we'll be back in just the moment. Don't go anywhere.

(01:50:47):
April asked in the chat on YouTube the follow up question,
is there any advice for us as we try to
determine if it is real? I don't know if I
have any advice specifically because the fact that there is
already such an established, repetitive pattern of this experience amongst

(01:51:13):
multiple observers is typically enough evidence to suggest that it's real.
So it's not so much whether or not it's real.
It's real because it's happening. But what you're trying to
get to is what I think is what you're asking
is determine if historically there was a money laundering situation

(01:51:34):
there that could be harder to figure out, but it
really at this point doesn't matter if it's historical or not,
because once it takes its framework into the form of
a projection, whether it be an actual projection from history
or a projection of people's expectation, it takes on its

(01:51:57):
own life and it does its own thing, and it
can become a force direction with a genuine danger in
a paranormal sense. So you know, I don't really worry
myself about that. Once there's enough evidence to suggest that
there's repeating patterns of something happening, then at that point

(01:52:17):
I don't really try to determine too much about whether
or not we can trace it to history or if
we can trace it to just people's expectation. As far
as our purposes, it's the same. And I know that
kind of kind of breaks the paradigm of it, because
I think people think that it's only real what happens
in history, But that's not how the incorporeal world works.

(01:52:39):
But real is what what what what you experience. That's
what's real, not not necessarily whether or not it's something
that happened in a historical context or in a tangible way.

Speaker 3 (01:52:54):
It's not even that difficult toualize.

Speaker 4 (01:52:56):
Really, you know.

Speaker 3 (01:53:00):
Cliche. You know, there's your story, my story, and there's
the truth. Yeah, that's that's inhabiting that zone because yeah,
something happened in history which we might we might refer
to in this instance as the truth, although it's not
a deep truth, but we might say, well that was

(01:53:20):
the event. But then you've got how you interpreted it,
understood it, and how I interpreted it understood it. That's
a that's a direct comparison.

Speaker 1 (01:53:30):
Well, let's say, I mean you can make it something
even very simple, like take a child that has a
favorite toy or stuff down or something if it gets
lost or destroyed somehow, and you're like, look a big deal,
We'll just buy a another one like it. You know,
if it's like a popular character or something, you can
always get one. You can always find one to go

(01:53:51):
to eBay get a replacement the exact same thing. Someone's
got it. It's not the same, and for the child
there's something different, But that's only the child's reality. You're
not going to necessarily experience that unless you really kind
of empathically connect to the child's feelings on this issue.
But for most people, you know, it's just a toy.
Just replace it. With another one that's like it, but

(01:54:12):
the child knows there's a difference there. Because there is
a difference there for the child, there's a different reality present,
and that is a reality. There's nothing historical or tangible
about that. It just is what it is. You can say, oh,
it's just because the child became attached to that one thing,
But why would it be that one thing? Why would
it be that does that one if it truly is

(01:54:33):
just a favorite character to just get a replacement, right,
But it doesn't work quite like that. I mean, that's
kind of a crude example, but I think it gives
you the general idea. Realities are very much by what's inside,
not much less so on what's outside. You know.

Speaker 6 (01:54:49):
I think the thing for me in terms of a
Bagirl was talking about was, according to this TV show
or episode, it was talking about how an mental was
tied to it. And that's the part I'm still trying
to figure out. As if let's say, for example, there
was money lawn during what does an elemental have.

Speaker 1 (01:55:11):
To do with it?

Speaker 5 (01:55:12):
I guess that's what we're trying to feed.

Speaker 1 (01:55:13):
Probably nothing, you know, I don't know. I mean, the
problem is, Okay, a lot of these things are going
to be of course derived through like mediums and psidekicks
and people that you know, experience something that as father
first first said in the in the chat, even the
real world, even in the real world, what people believe

(01:55:36):
becomes true. You know, he's right. You know, we do
create our own realities, and I think psychics are really
good at creating their own realities sometimes, really do. That's
not to say that, you know, all psychic ability is nonsense,
but I will say, you know, it's it's it's it's
a little bit malleable, a little bit more than malible
most of the time. And so the real challenge is

(01:56:00):
not so much trying to determine, you know, whether or
not there's some elemental involved here as much as it
is just trying to determine what's the best solution assuming
there is. Uh, you know, I only deal with paranormal
problems from a resolution point of view. It's like for me,
it's like, how do I am this? So I go
into every case I do what do I need to

(01:56:21):
do to end this? So determine whether or not's something's
like a wrathful spirit, some kind of actual demon or
you know, a thought form or a or an elemental
is only to help me draft the most effective, efficient
resolution to the disturbance. That right, I mean I'm not

(01:56:43):
a paranormal right, I'm not a paranormal investigator. I do
paranormal investigation to get an idea as to what's going
on to be able to better draft a solution. But
I mean I'm there to draft a solution. Okay. So
for me, the the whether the information about what the

(01:57:06):
kind of event is is only to come up with
the best solution because there are different ways to handle
each one of those scenarios, and elemental does not respond
as well to ectorcism, whereas a demon does, you know,
even rathol spirit does, and thought forms do depending upon
the kind of thought form. But elementals, no elementals, are

(01:57:29):
handled in much better ways than actricism. Actoralism is just
gonna usually make it worse for.

Speaker 2 (01:57:35):
A while some pretty cool cases.

Speaker 1 (01:57:39):
Yeah, yeah, So it's about it's about coming up with
an idea to fix, to create the best treatment plan.

Speaker 6 (01:57:48):
You know.

Speaker 1 (01:57:49):
It's kind of like, you know, being a doctor and
determine that someone's got cancer, but you're not quite sure
what kind of cancer it might be. How do you
what kind of cancer it is. Well, I hope you
create the best treatment for that cancer rather than just
going in and guessing and maybe taking it worse. So
this is no different. It's the type of well you're

(01:58:12):
basically you're truly diagnosing. It's a diagnostic tool, and then
once you know, you have an idea as to what
it is. But see, I don't use psychics for that,
and I don't depend upon what psychics or mediums tell
me in this regard. I mean, if I happen to
have one with me, I'll listen to them and I'll
try to weigh what they say with the rest of
everything else that I have access to. But for me,

(01:58:36):
I just look for the indicators, and the indicators are
usually once you get into this situation clear. Eventually they
might not be clear at first, but once you get
your feet wet and you start working a case, they
start to you know, the woles that prevent you from
seeing it break down, and then it becomes pretty clear,

(01:58:59):
pretty bad, which kind of problem it is and how
best to solve it. I personally don't like elemental cases
because they are so there's so much variation, and they're
so difficult to resolve. A lot of times, the best
solution is to just move. Most of the time. It's
really because yeah, because I mean it's the easiest way,

(01:59:21):
that's the easiest one to fix, because I mean, essentially
what it comes down to is trying to create the
best defense against what they can do. If there are
low level elementals, then you know, essentially you might be
able to pull it off. If they're of a higher caliber,
then you're just going to be constantly fighting with this thing,

(01:59:43):
and sometimes the best thing is to either move or
find a way to make peace with it and not
try to, you know, use the Cross of Christ to
drive it away, because it's not they're not forces of evil.
There are forces of disturbance, but they're not forces of evil.
You know, a child that's screaming in your ear on

(02:00:05):
an airplane, who's crying and doesn't want to be there
is a disturbance to you. That doesn't mean the baby's evil. Well,
I mean it's an evil experience for you, but it
could be pretty bad. It's a disturbance that's like elemental
is more like that than it is like some kind
of demon that you want to like assault. So it

(02:00:29):
really comes down to looking for the indicators, and I
don't need a psychic for that. I think, you know,
the only thing psychic can help with that is if
they validate what I'm already seeing. It's another indicator that says, okay,
then we must have this right, they're seeing it too.
But I don't just go in and be like whatether

(02:00:49):
the psychic tells me and says, Okay, that's it what
it is. So if somebody is saying, like some psychic,
I think that's what you guys said, right, Brandon, that
the psychic said is elemental involved, I would take that
with a grain solved. I'm not saying they're wrong, but
I mean, there it is possible you could have like
a comorbidity there. I mean there there. There can sometimes
be two problems that are kind of combining to make

(02:01:11):
it one giant one. I mean you could have an
elemental that is present at a location where something disturbing
happened that created a projection of something that's malevolent, and
then they're both kind of there, and I mean that
does happen. You know. Mentals are everywhere. I mean, I

(02:01:32):
elementals on this property that I'm constant fighting with. They're
basically of the gremlin kind. They get into the technology,
as you guys have probably seen. I really think they
destroyed the hard drive. They destroyed my dishwasher. They just
they just this week, they destroyed my washing machine. How
to get a new one they destroyed. They messed with
the microwave. They turned it on. So when we when

(02:01:55):
we go away for an extended period, you know, we
will we turned the circuit breaker off to everything because
everything but the security cameras and the alarm system generally,
because we don't know what they're going to get into
text and if we're gone for a while, we come back,
there's almost always something damage or broken there. This is

(02:02:17):
one of the holiest places you can have. I'm wearing
a mask here all the time. There's constant prayer going
on in this house. You know, this place has been blessed,
has not been sealed, but a seal is not going
to stop an elemental event either, so you know, and
this is definitely elemental. There's nothing malevolent here, There's nothing
there's nothing sentient in sentient I should say intelligent here. Okay.

(02:02:42):
It is literally like mosquitoes getting you know, into your
face and biting your skin. And causing me to be irritated.

Speaker 14 (02:02:49):
That's exactly saying there's nothing intelligent here. Well, you know
you're put yourself down.

Speaker 1 (02:03:04):
Well maybe I don't know. I mean, I don't know.
I guess so I don't know. I mean I think
I'm clever, I'm truly intelligent. I think I'm just really
clever sometimes. But you know, I could be smarter. I
mean maybe if I wasn't so tired all the time,
maybe I could actually impress myself to the more disciplined.

(02:03:25):
Would help, That would help. One of the holiest places
I didn't realize to wear on the Temple mount Well,
I mean to let me tell you, Well, I'll tell
you this. I'll tell you this from the Christian from
the from the from the vantage point Christian theology. Wherever

(02:03:46):
the Tabernacle is, that houses the the the eu christ.
I mean that is as holy as the Temple mount
it is. I mean, it's the physical presence of God,
you know, in the same way the Temple was the
physical presence or house the physical presence of God. I
think it's the real beauty of Christianity is that. Now
that could be anywhere, It doesn't have to be in

(02:04:07):
that one spot can be everywhere. It makes the place holy.
But that doesn't you know, it doesn't scare off the elementals,
you know, and and and there's no interaction because it's
just a factor of creation. You know, it's just a
factor of creation. It doesn't really doesn't really change.

Speaker 3 (02:04:23):
The beating.

Speaker 1 (02:04:24):
Yeah, that's exactly right. We get it from the the
Holy of holes. And even for further emphasized in this
is an interesting little tipit for you guys about the
Nicola and count the church and why it has the
Orthodox connections even though it does a lot of Western things,
is because that connostosis creates a better representation of that

(02:04:46):
Holy of holies, that that that sanctuary space that plays
only you know, the clergy man enter, you know, that
kind of thing. They opened it up, they open it up. Well,
I mean the extraordinary right still has you know, they

(02:05:06):
still those churches do Some Church.

Speaker 3 (02:05:09):
Of England have them. By the fact that the Reformation
didn't get to them, they're now monuments and not Okay,
so yeah, you know, yeah, they do persist in Western Christianity,
but I wish it were more ubiquitous.

Speaker 1 (02:05:25):
Yeah, true, I would agree with that, I mean, I
think but that's what that's why we haven't a condostatisis
it's to really emphasize the fact that there's something tremendously
holy here and and I take that very seriously. I do.
I take that very seriously, you know. And and it
is it is the physical presence of God. I mean,

(02:05:46):
what's holier than that? You know, it is holier than that.
Do we have any other questions anything that is on
anyone's minds?

Speaker 4 (02:05:53):
That?

Speaker 5 (02:05:53):
Yes, son, you know, asked a question at it back.
It's kind of a two parter.

Speaker 4 (02:05:59):
She said.

Speaker 6 (02:06:00):
Her brother decided one year to start collecting Hollywood celebrities
signed photos.

Speaker 5 (02:06:06):
He'd write them in a letter, and he'd get.

Speaker 6 (02:06:08):
His photo and lovingly put in a clip frame and
put it upon the wall. After the thirty second celebrity died,
my parents begged him to stop. My question is, did
her brother play a harbinger of doom to Hollywood.

Speaker 1 (02:06:25):
For a year?

Speaker 2 (02:06:28):
No?

Speaker 1 (02:06:29):
No, no, I mean no, that that would be that
would be schrity, That would be pushing. I mean that
would be more of a synchronicity event. I wouldn't say
that that would be.

Speaker 2 (02:06:41):
A Hollywood celebrities from the same era. I mean roll
of dice they're going to be up in age and
rolling off anyway.

Speaker 1 (02:06:51):
Yeah, yeah, I would say that.

Speaker 2 (02:06:54):
That would be more of a disturbing coincidence.

Speaker 1 (02:06:57):
But yeah, I mean, okay, it looks like we're having
some connection issues. Now you back now, Yeah, it's trying
to reconnect. I'm not sure. Yeah, we're back alive. Let
me go ahead. You know. It's because I forgot to
isolate the band We'll see. That's one of the other
frustrating things about the internet here is that I can

(02:07:20):
isolate the bandwidth to this computer so that the stream
is always given priority when there's a bandwidth disruption, But
it only will hold the bandwidth for two hours, so
I have to remember during the second break to isolate
it again. And because this has been such a chaotic

(02:07:43):
show and nothing's gone right am I. And I should
also say because of that that washing machine that was
eaten by the gremlins, I had to be up at
the crack of dog that made to be ready for
the delivery of the new one, so I didn't get
the normal sleep that I would have, so I've been
up for more or is that I probably should be,
which doesn't help anything either. Is anyone else experiencing an

(02:08:06):
echo when Brandon talks.

Speaker 3 (02:08:10):
But I suspect it may have helped and what you've
just done.

Speaker 1 (02:08:15):
But maybe it was a it might have been that. Okay, Yeah,
let me know if you're still hearing an echo from
from our uh, from father Chris or Brandon, because I
don't I'm not hearing an echo, but Levi Tracy is too,
is like a real like a like an echo in

(02:08:38):
the sense of m I don't see. Yeah, I'm just
I'm gonna help me to understand what you mean by
echo and maybe I can try to figure out what
that could be. There's no other audio sources here. It's
both father Chris, has it been the entire show?

Speaker 3 (02:09:00):
It wasn't at the start, and then it wasn't for
most of the show. And then it's come back.

Speaker 1 (02:09:06):
From zoom, from just zoom, not from Jamie or myself.

Speaker 2 (02:09:11):
That's those two.

Speaker 3 (02:09:12):
That's right.

Speaker 1 (02:09:14):
Interesting. I don't know what could be causing that That
tells me that it's a zoom ishue could yeah, just
since the last break interesting, I don't know. I don't know.
I mean, there's nothing that's changed that sounds like it
could be an Internet thing. I don't know just Zoom.
I don't know. I'm sorry, guys, I mean, this is

(02:09:36):
just it's just craziness. Thank you, riverboat father Firth, mister,
thank you. Let's break plug along and hope that it
happened a little bit before last break. That's so strange.
I don't we don't hear it on our end. It's

(02:09:57):
that disruptive.

Speaker 3 (02:09:59):
It's fine, isn't it.

Speaker 1 (02:10:00):
Yeah, perfectly fine. You sound like as clear as you
always do, and which is weird because you're coming through
directly through the soundboard, so it's the same source now
for everything, all the audios through one source that's coming
through like before like this will watch watch. You'll hear
an echo now because I turned off that other microphone.

(02:10:21):
But when I turned that off, it echo goes a way.
That's because there's two audio sources when I turn that on,
but they Zoom doesn't have two audios audio sources.

Speaker 3 (02:10:33):
So I don't know what's going on Zoom. It must
be it must be somewhere between. You know, it coming
into your laptop and go back out.

Speaker 1 (02:10:43):
Again too weird. It could be. I mean, I don't know,
I don't know. I just know that that Internet has
been really bad here lately, I've had to turn off
the band with every device that this that there's thirty
eight devices connected to this internet here, I've had to

(02:11:05):
turn them all off except for my phone in this
computer to make it work. Of course the security system.
But you know, it's been really difficult, really difficult to
try to get this internet to work, and the price
of living out here in the country. Sometimes I kind
of regret it, I really do. I mean, I love
the quiet, but I don't like this because it's I'm

(02:11:26):
actually more stressed now than I was before I moved
out here, because I moved out here to get less stressed,
and I'm more stressed now because this My job is
all streaming now, and it's just it's fighting a battle
that I just don't seem to ever be able to win.
And the only solution for it is to get comcasts,
which would allow us to get a gigabyte of bandwidth,

(02:11:49):
which would fix everything. But they want thirty thousand dollars
to put the wire in.

Speaker 3 (02:11:54):
Could you just get the almost thing.

Speaker 1 (02:11:58):
I think there's too many trees. I don't think there's
enough sky.

Speaker 3 (02:12:03):
You can try it.

Speaker 1 (02:12:04):
I mean, I don't know if I want to driddle
holes in the roof. Maybe if I put it on
the roof, but I mean I have to probably get
someone to do that. I don't know. I don't know.
I know that that would be five hundred or better megabytes, which, yeah,
that would that would fix it. Yeah. Eli doesn't like

(02:12:25):
me though, so he might he cut my bandwidth back. Yeah, yeah,
that's true. That's true. The synchronis is going to happen. Yeah,
the synchrony look out. I don't know. We'll figure it out.
I mean, I'll try, you know. I think I definitely
think there's something weird going on with Zoom tonight, just

(02:12:46):
because the video is not working correctly. We had father
father Chris was having weird issues too. A thousands, a
thousand gigabytes. No, I've got fifty vote, I've got that's
fifty megabytes. That's as much as I can get out here.
It's amazing. It's a miracle that I can get you
a live stream at all. That's the fastest I can

(02:13:09):
get unless I have pick Concat's thirty grand to put
in a wire. Because this property is about a quarter
of a mile off the road, okay, and the their
contact has a wire on the road, but they just
won't run one to this house. They want us to

(02:13:32):
pay for it. And it's like, I don't want to
be that committed to even if I wanted to pay
thirty grand, which I don't. I don't want to be
that committed to one company now because I've invested so
much into it, because what if that sucks too? And
now I've paid thirty grand for this wire that I
don't even like the service stuff. So haven't been really
terribly motivated at and T, which is our which is

(02:13:55):
our service here, the only one that we can get
right now unless we try the starlink. They they said
they are think they're that they're they've been looking at
putting fiber in, but apparently they need to get some
kind of law passed in order to do it, and
legislation runs very slow in the state of Georgia. It's
a very corrupt local government here, so who knows when

(02:14:18):
that will ever get done.

Speaker 5 (02:14:20):
You know, you think, you think, you thought, what have
you thought of doing messages live from the retreat house?
Would that have a better internet?

Speaker 1 (02:14:29):
Well, that would have comcasts and that would be a
last resort option that when the retreat house is is done,
and we have internet and sold there because now mass
is being said from there that would have access to
a gigabyte I mean of being a lot more expensive
than what we pay now, So it would definitely it

(02:14:51):
would probably be somewhere in the neighborhood of three hundred
and sixty a month I think for a gigabyte of comcast.
But you know, that would be an option just get
all the streaming out of here and put it over
at the retreat house because that that that does have
comcasts there. It is an option. We are we are

(02:15:12):
going to get comcasts there for the mass, So that
might be the way to do it. Move it, move
it out of here altogether, and just be done with
trying to stream here because it's so difficult. But you know,
well see what we can do, you know, I mean,
I don't know, I don't I mean I would say,
you know, even if we had a person that was like,

(02:15:34):
I'll donate thirty thousand dollars to do it, it's like
there's so many better things that thirty thousand dollars could
go to, yeah, rather than a wire. So it's like,
I don't really want to use church funds to put
a wire in when you know thirty grand could be
revolutionary for doing other projects, that that's so insignificant. I mean,

(02:15:55):
that's the problem. And you know, then it comes back to, well,
if I paid for it, you know, then it's and
it's just like.

Speaker 3 (02:16:05):
Me paying.

Speaker 1 (02:16:07):
Money to work sixty hours a week. And I have
a real problem that where it's like a negative salary.
You know, it's like I don't mind working for free.
I do start to mind when it costs me to work.
That does start to bother me. You know, I've spent
too many years in this in this job as a bishop,
paying to do work, you know. You know, it's like

(02:16:31):
I think at one point it was like twenty thousand
dollars a year just to do sixty hours a week.
And that wasn't that was me paying out a pocket
to do this job. I don't think many people would
do that. I think there's a special kind of insanity
that comes from doing that. But yeah, even if somebody
wanted to donate it, I don't think I'd spend it
on that. You know, nobody's going to donate that. But

(02:16:52):
even if they did, I don't I would not probably
say recommend we put it towards a stupid wire, you know,
kind of a waste of money. I think comcash should
have a better option than that. I don't I don't
understand how it costs three thousand dollars for in a
wire a quarter of a mile. That does not make
sense to me. That seems very exploitive to me. But

(02:17:13):
what do I know? I think other questions? Do we
have any other questions?

Speaker 2 (02:17:17):
I don't see any the chat brand? You got any backup?

Speaker 5 (02:17:22):
I don't see any India Chat. But of course I
always have a backup.

Speaker 1 (02:17:26):
You do. We had one from that, We have one
from email. I can do that later too. Yes.

Speaker 5 (02:17:33):
So here's a question, a pretty good one. When or
when an exorcist does an exorcism? Do they get possessed?

Speaker 1 (02:17:45):
That's a common one. Now that doesn't that that does
not happen. They can get like an obsession or an oppression,
usually very temporary possession. If they get possessed, then they
had no business doing the job, because that's usually the
mark of somebody that really doesn't know what they're doing.

Speaker 3 (02:18:07):
I suppose, I suppose I should clarify if what you
mean by an exorcist is a priest. Here's an exist,
The answer is no. Right, if it's somebody that's calling
themselves an exist, there has never been validly ordered as
a priest.

Speaker 1 (02:18:21):
Well, that might be why, Yeah, no, because there's a
lot of things going on in the priesthood that would
we be safeguards against against us. So, first of all,
the sacrament of foly orders being the primary thing right,
the ability to act legitimately and validly in person of
Christie is going to negate any risk factor in that regard, right,

(02:18:45):
because the priest is upbarting with christ authority and he
has the sacramental authority to do so. So that in
itself is more than sufficient to prevent a priest from
becoming possessed by something he's not there to be funle
to it. So that gives us to the second issue.
The second reason is that an exorcist is trained and

(02:19:07):
how to handle these matters, not to become vulnerable to them.
So when you hear these, you know some priests going
through these lengthy fastings and and and and and in
days of prayer to get ready for an exorcism. These
are things that priests do and can do to strengthen
themselves spiritually so that they can more completely act in

(02:19:33):
the authority of Christ. However, for me, who tends to
suffer greatly from hypoglycemia, I find, you know, going into
an exorcism on a full stomach to be the better
course of action. It gives me the strength. I usually
eat a lot of prouteine, so it makes me it

(02:19:53):
makes me more aggressive. And as if I'm feeling full
and satisfied, I'm used you're feeling very uh uh well
confidently enough to be able to handle just about anything.
So that's my strategy. But again, I mean these aren't
like hard fast rules. It's whatever works for you. But

(02:20:14):
there are things that priests do are trained to do
to be able to not become vulnerable. However that beings said.

Speaker 2 (02:20:21):
Tax can happen though.

Speaker 1 (02:20:23):
There's usually your eyes.

Speaker 2 (02:20:25):
Yes, I've vexated.

Speaker 1 (02:20:27):
Vexation, usually vexation where they just through it. Yeah, clouds you.
They'll they'll try to like distort your ability to say
the prayers. We've experienced that any priest who does this
work has experienced that. You know, uh, remember your first.

Speaker 3 (02:20:43):
You get really really tired, a bit destructed, like yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:20:49):
The words start together and you can't focus.

Speaker 1 (02:20:52):
I remember one time we couldn't even remember the Saint
Michael's prayer.

Speaker 2 (02:20:55):
Yeah, it's like one of the Ghost Adventures episodes. I
think in Vegas, I felt by heart, but I was
stubborn through it. Will everybody's being attacked.

Speaker 1 (02:21:06):
We say, yeah, well that's true everyone.

Speaker 2 (02:21:11):
Yeah, yeah, that does happen.

Speaker 1 (02:21:13):
So yeah, you're not.

Speaker 3 (02:21:15):
That's that's why I think. I think you know you
said about for me, that's the cheap thing to combat
is that? Is that brain fall? Yeah, And I think
I think that's why the discipline came to fast because
for most people, uh not, you know, everyone's got the
physiology cleared their head. When I fast, I get a

(02:21:37):
clearer head. Yeah, if you eat protein, it doesn't affect that.
If I if I have sugar cabs.

Speaker 1 (02:21:45):
Wreck, yeah wreck. Now we do high protein.

Speaker 2 (02:21:48):
Give me a huge steak and I'll be yeah.

Speaker 3 (02:21:51):
That'll be fine.

Speaker 1 (02:21:52):
We do high protein. But fasting, I mean if I
have a hypoglycemic in the middle of an exorcism, that
would not think. So I don't.

Speaker 3 (02:22:03):
Is the best way and either you do that through
fasting or by only eating projects that's right.

Speaker 1 (02:22:10):
Yeah, yeah, so there's the answer to that. Okay, So no,
it should not happen, and if it does, it's because
you're probably not qualified to do the work.

Speaker 2 (02:22:19):
You watching videos and doesn't work.

Speaker 1 (02:22:23):
Yeah. Yeah, and that's exactly why they shouldn't, you know.
People like and I did that, Yeah right now. Yeah,
we've had that.

Speaker 2 (02:22:33):
That's some interesting cases come up in the last couple
of weeks.

Speaker 1 (02:22:36):
People. Yeah, people increase. Man, It's like, look, I know
I I recognize a person's interest in wanting to help
people spiritually, absolutely, but when you come to this church
and say you want to be a part of it,
you want to join the clergy or whatever, just because
you want to be recognized as an extorocist, you are

(02:22:58):
not that. You'll never, never be accepted into this program
because you are a pastor first. An exorcist is probably
the last thing that you are in this It.

Speaker 3 (02:23:12):
Should be a like zero point one percent of your ministry.

Speaker 1 (02:23:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (02:23:16):
If I thought, like, I mean, I know, it's become
false to big because there are so few exists around
and the church hasn't taken it seriously for forty to
fifty years, sixty years. But really I have the lexoricisms.
I'm chained as an exorcist. The vast majority of my
priesthood has been well, mass preaching, teaching baptisms, funerals, weddings.

Speaker 1 (02:23:44):
That's the normal thing community were That's what I do.

Speaker 3 (02:23:48):
That's that's the ninety nine point nine percent of what
you do. And so if you're not called to that,
you're not called to anything.

Speaker 1 (02:23:56):
You know, you can't be called to extorcism and not
be called to be a priest first and be able
to do all the ordinary things that people need because
most of the time that's all that's necessary to have
a problem. Spirtually, extorcisms almost know, we never needed, you know,
exorcisms last resort. You know, the sacrament of unction pretty

(02:24:17):
much fixes almost anything. And what function doesn't do confession does,
you know. So it's it's really very simple. And if
you don't know or understand those things, you know, extorcism,
becoming an exorcist, nobody should want that. You are. You
are given that authority when there's a need. But your

(02:24:41):
call to priesthood, and if the church calls you to
be an extorsist, that's nothing different. But it calls priests
to be actresses. It doesn't. People don't be like I
want to be a priest, I could be an extorsist.
That's ridiculous. That's ridiculous, and that's not going to fly
in this church.

Speaker 3 (02:24:56):
Marinas just asked the question, which I find a quick answer,
but I think it's probably worth developing.

Speaker 1 (02:25:02):
Yeah, let's ope.

Speaker 3 (02:25:04):
So she's doing at the moment, one of the priests
was teaching what the mass and mentioned when he puts
on his garments his former identity appears. Is this the
moment of trans into Christie? So I've just given a
quick answer, but she's say, no, that's when you're ordained.

Speaker 1 (02:25:21):
Christ is forever. Yeah, and it's it's fact one.

Speaker 3 (02:25:25):
Could say, is for all the baptized rights, the baptismal priests.

Speaker 1 (02:25:29):
I mean, it isn't a way you could say that,
but I mean specifically, when the church says in persona christy,
it is referring to the priesthood as a singular funk function.
But you know, if if if I'm walking through an
airport and I'm just dressed and like I am now
on a T shirt and somebody says, oh, look, aren't

(02:25:49):
you bish Brian on Ghost Adventures? And I say yes,
and they're like, would you mind hearing my confession? I
don't have my stole. I don't have vestments, I don't
have anything. I can still hear their confession and absolve
them because I still am in persona Christy in that moment.
I don't need to be dressed like it to do it.
But being dressed in it liturgically is to emphasize in

(02:26:12):
that unique liturgical way that this is Christ. That is
why we wear the vestments to distinguish. So you're not
seeing me up there. You shouldn't be like, oh, there's
the bishop. You should be like, no, that's that's in
persona Christy. That's Jesus here present with us, and the
priest is acting in that capacity throughout this mass.

Speaker 3 (02:26:32):
So the function of the vest I mean, obviously investments
have got biblical origins. They've all got symbolic meaning. You know,
we could go through them if you want that. But
the the really real basic function of wearing vestments is
that it means that because because a priest has to

(02:26:53):
be visible a mass, by wearing vestments, it removes the
element of personality. So you know, I had this, I
thinks on the show years ago. I also have mentioned
on the before, and I think that happened on the
show for years so many people. Most people have heard
these things. But you know when I when I first

(02:27:15):
into exercise ministries of priests in Australia, I remember the
parish who I really love, So you have to wear
all those things, you know, And I said, well, what
what would you rather I wore? And he said, oh,
you can wear a suit? And I said, so shall
I wear a kmart suits or of a suit.

Speaker 1 (02:27:41):
That is a that is a father Chris response heard one?

Speaker 3 (02:27:48):
He had exactly response and then and then he said
you carry on. Really he didn't need he knew representing course,
it was a little testay if if I knew why
I wore them, and that the answer saified. But it

(02:28:13):
is the point is that and listen, hey, we all know,
especially clergy, know your choice of is a little bit
like that too. You can wear Gambarelli or you know,
you can wear es. So there is I'm not I
don't want to claim to be holier than now. You know,
I do enjoy wearing nice vestments, but nevertheless, it's still

(02:28:36):
a choice of which kind of priest clothes are you
going to wear? As opposed to you know, are you
the height of fashion?

Speaker 1 (02:28:42):
Are you?

Speaker 3 (02:28:43):
Are you rich? Are you poor, are you?

Speaker 1 (02:28:45):
Well, That's the funny thing about vestments is that they
have quite a bit of just like the kmart suit
or versa. They have that much variation. You could spend
thirty thousan dollars on one vestment if you really wanted to,
or you want to if you just.

Speaker 3 (02:28:59):
For the advert for the show, if anyone wants to
buy one thousand dollars, I do.

Speaker 1 (02:29:04):
There you go.

Speaker 3 (02:29:04):
No manufacturers will make them with real pearls on.

Speaker 1 (02:29:07):
And also, you know, and you can get one for
fifty bucks on autumn. You know, I mean, it's it's
and they both are valid, they're both, they both work.
It doesn't really come down to the price you pay
or how nice they are. It's really just what your
what your parish you know, supports, is generally how it
tends to go. And sometimes you know, if this is

(02:29:29):
well financed, he might buy better ones or you know
that kind of thing. But they're not necessary.

Speaker 3 (02:29:34):
And also, by the way, just because I think the
real scene in saying that, oh, the cheapest must be
the holiest and the best, yeah, that's not true. No,
you know, it's it's suffice to say that that these
things are a gift from God. And if you're worshiping
in a community that can't afford to buy the best specimens,

(02:29:54):
it doesn't matter. Those vess are fine. But it's also
true and this is why I you know, I I've
said this here because Australians are generally not poor. It
does not do to sort of have this pompous attitude
towards our priest must wear awful things. When you go
home as a member of the parish, you're sitting on

(02:30:16):
a twenty thousand dollar couch watching a ten thousand dollar
television and you have you know, artwork around your house
that costs thousands of dollars and you get you travel
business class when you go on holiday. So it's not
about investments than others. It's about if you are from

(02:30:38):
a rich part of the world, they should be giving
their first fruits to God, not the cast offs. That's
both ways. That's a poor area, the humblest you know,
you could wear sackcloth and ashes and it's sufficient. The
problem I have seen how wealthy that should also be reflected.

Speaker 1 (02:30:55):
The problem I have seen throughout my entire ministry, and
even before I was phillyd with this church. You know,
even in the in the conventional Roman Catholic church. Okay,
the one thing I have seen is that people tend
to give with their charity what is expendable. They don't
want to feel their charity. They just want to feel

(02:31:21):
good about themselves that they gave something. But they typically
will never give more than they won't feel. And that
is the exact opposite of how it's supposed to work,
the exact opposite. God is supposed to be your first obligation,
then all of your other things. But that's not how
people see it. They see it as I got to

(02:31:42):
take care of all these things that are important to
me first, and then whatever's left over, I'll give to God.
That's that's very inverted, that it goes against everything, and
that's exactly what the Acts of the Apostles, you know,
has that little socialist twist in the beginning there that
people you know, sometimes erroneously equate with socialism, but it

(02:32:04):
sounds socialist because it sounds almost like they're smurfed. You know,
they're all like living in common in some commune and
everyone's sharing the money, and you know, you come in,
you give everything to the leaders, and they distributed it
out equally to everyone, you know. But the reason for
that was to emphasize the importance of God being first.
And you know, I was talking with Jamie before. You know,

(02:32:25):
we're trying to get this this this this mission, this
mission church. We're trying to get this retreat house off
the ground, getting the chapel done so it's great to use.
And I've been having a hell of time trying to
find a product that will finish the chapel in a
way that looks appropriate but isn't too cheap. And ideally

(02:32:49):
what I'd like is what I basically want is is
there's some kind of stone work effect in the chapel
so that it kind of has a bit of a
medieval look. I wanted to feel otherworldly. That's the churches
shouldn't feel like a room. It shouldn't feel like just
room in your house. It should feel like another place.
And the way that you can achieve this is in
churches that you're seeing glass to create a different kind

(02:33:11):
of lights of different color, and then of course the ordain,
the the displays of ornate displays. What I'm trying to
say are to capture your eye and remind you that
you are in another place, and that you're in the
presence of something wholly and divine. It's just a way
of playing on your psychology. But you know, the churches

(02:33:35):
I grew up in, you know, when I was when
I was a kid, We're churches that were built in
the eighteen hundreds, and these places that were all Italian marble,
gold leaf on the ceiling, remarkable places. And these were
built because back then people understood their obligation to God,

(02:33:56):
that it came first, that that you could not house
the Christ and something that was like anywhere, any old place,
it should be something special, something you need to indicate
that you see that God deserves something better than you.
But that's not how people look at it today. And
today it's like God gets whatever's left and he'll understand.

Speaker 3 (02:34:20):
You know.

Speaker 1 (02:34:21):
That's the attitude now. So what we're forced to deal with,
because this is a prevading attitude, is you know, I'm
trying to figure out a way to make this look
nice without it looking like a freaking circus in there.
And it's been hard, you know, it's been really hard.
We're realizing now that we're just going to have to
put something in that is adequate and then hopefully as

(02:34:43):
time goes on and hopefully better financing happens, we can
then replace some of what we're going to put in
with actual stone so that it does become a place
that is appropriate to house euchres because you know, I mean,
it's it's it's as as as a bishop, it's hard
for me to put the Eucharist in a room that

(02:35:06):
is something that nobody would want to live in. You know,
I mean it would you do this? Would you put
this in your house? Would you want your house to
look like this? The answer probably be no. So you know,
we've been doing these basement churches kind of thing. We've
been doing these small little room churches without windows. We've

(02:35:28):
been doing commercial uh shopping mall churches and you know,
when does that end? Well, so far it hasn't. Because
people do not understand that God is not that thing
you pay for when you got a little money left
in your back pocket and you can throw it that direction.
So this is this is the problem. This is a problem.

(02:35:50):
You know that it goes beyond thirty thousand dollars investments.
It's it's you know, it's it's something that fundamentally is
a society. We don't understand anymore. That's how we had
marvelous churches like Notre Dame, you know, a thousand years ago,
and now we have, you know, places that you don't
even look at. Then you can't even tell it's a
church anymore. You know, it's drywall and and and concrete,

(02:36:13):
and nobody cares. And they think it doesn't matter, you know,
Oh it doesn't matter, because it's it's the work the
people do that matters. No, no physical presence of God.
I think he just there's a place that's nicer than
your home. Oh you I do, But I mean I
don't know, you know, so where I'm trying to do
the best. But you know, I'd be lying if I

(02:36:34):
said that I didn't feel like I'd need to do
penance for for for this entire church, because I feel
like we're really not living up to the standard here
that that we should be. And I hope that that
changes down the road. But you know, it's tough when
you only have a handful of people that actually support
the ministry and a lot of people that just ride

(02:36:55):
the coattails of those who do. And you know, it's
sometimes the people that have the least are the ones
that are given the most and it shouldn't be that
way either. You know, it's it's it's, it's it's a conundrum.
I mean, it's something that I'm working through, and it's
it's something I've been working through for more than thirty years.

(02:37:16):
It's ministry in America today.

Speaker 3 (02:37:18):
You just got a quick question which I think you
have to get into.

Speaker 1 (02:37:21):
Yeah, rambling now, so get me off on.

Speaker 3 (02:37:23):
It asks a question about confession. So when you go
into the booth for confession, is it sound proof? And
why do you have to go into confession booth to confess?

Speaker 1 (02:37:36):
So you don't have to go to a confession booth.
It's really for your privacy. It's just so you feel
more comfortable. In the Orthodox Church, they don't use them.
Actually in the Orthodox Church, you go up to the
conistosis and the prit puts his his stole over you
and you kneel down, and everybody just knows that when
that's happening to stay away. But the confessional is just

(02:37:57):
a way of making people more comfortable because the church
knows nobody wants to do this, so they're definitely not
gonna want to do it. If there's any chance that
anybody could hear or know what they're saying or so.
I wouldn't say they're like they're not soundproofing like like
like a radio studio kind of way, but they are
very quiet. I mean, you can't really private and cozy

(02:38:18):
and you know no one can hear you.

Speaker 3 (02:38:21):
They have to be the door because everybody knows that's
what's going on there.

Speaker 1 (02:38:27):
Respect people don't.

Speaker 3 (02:38:29):
People don't kneel next to it in prayer listening, right,
it's far away.

Speaker 1 (02:38:33):
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (02:38:35):
So another thing is that the confessional it's bound on
the priest, the pen and anyone.

Speaker 1 (02:38:44):
Yeah, that's another thing people don't understand. Yeah, because it is.

Speaker 3 (02:38:48):
Clean or confession and talks about it. They are immortal
sin and in danger of hair unless I mean we
have it's a grave, grave sin. He's one of those
you might even it's a priest count even instantly confessed.

Speaker 1 (02:39:06):
Without I think a bishop has to handle that one.
I do. It's not excommunication, I don't think, but it
is definitely a bishop has to probably deal with it.

Speaker 3 (02:39:16):
Because it's different.

Speaker 1 (02:39:18):
We had a client once that that Jamie was primarily
the contact for. She did most of the pastoral work
with this client. I was really just the sacramental support,
you know, but she was the one that did the
day to day talking to this this individual. And and uh,
you know, it came through in the in the course

(02:39:40):
of my investigation that what was really needed here was
a confession. And he was uncomfortable going in there with me,
so he asked if if Jimmy could come with him,
and I, you know, I basically explained that, yeah, I mean,
there's no problem here. But I explained that you know,
anything that is revealed that Jamie's bound in the same
way I am to this seal. We cannot discuss at

(02:40:03):
all the contents of your confession. She can't either, and
she made I made sure that she she already understood that.
But you know, you affirm it again because it is
an irregular thing. But we did it. Recently had a minor,
minor female who wanted to hear me hear her confession.
And I don't hear minor females in private in a church.

(02:40:25):
I would if I had big church with confessionals, I
probably would do it.

Speaker 3 (02:40:29):
But even yeah, the children go to the confessional, but the.

Speaker 1 (02:40:34):
Doors are kept kept doors kept open. Yeah. So with
the so Jamie came just because out of out of
just out of you know, decorum, you know, just so
that there's never any question that anything, no accusations can
come because there were two witnesses there to know that,
you know, everything was appropriate. And you have to be

(02:40:56):
careful like that today because you know this is people
get mad at me a law. But when I don't
do instant messages, you know I do. I have my
instant messages turn off. People are constantly trying to connect
with me. They always want to do instant messages. I
do not do instant messages, and the reason for that
is liability reasons. Okay, I don't want anyone to say

(02:41:17):
that I said something about something in writing that they
either fabricated or whatever to make it look like it
was from an instant message they had with me, when
it is so much easier for me to say, well,
that's not possible for you to have that because I
don't do instant messages. I don't send them, so whatever
that is is, and I have to universally say that
to everybody. I mean, universe, there's no instant messages because

(02:41:40):
I don't send instant messages. The only message I have
was with church staff, and that's it that's on signal. Okay,
that's not even on our own network. I have that
shut off. And that's why I don't do it, because
people will make up shit and try to mess up
your life, and on TV and a poblic person, and

(02:42:02):
in a controversial work like religion, you have to protect yourself.
Then you add to it, you know, Ghost Adventures, and
then you get the people that absolutely despise and are
jealous of Zach, and then they rubs into my life
because they they get mad at me or they think that, well,
you know, we hate Sack, so we must hate him
too because he lacks stack. And you know it's I

(02:42:24):
just know it's the messages, no not doing them, Definitely
there are you know. I mean, it's it's a tough,
tough situation and I've had to be I mean, it
wasn't like that in the beginning. I didn't operate like
this before. I mean, I've had to become more distant
just to protect my family, you know, because people haven't

(02:42:45):
posed Jamie knows. Okay, when we started this church, well
I should say when we when the church is really
starting to take off, right before my first episode of
Ghost Adventures, that's when Jamie was coming on. You know,
we had a very large, uh relatively large community for

(02:43:08):
the size church that it was, and I can't even
begin to tell you the problems and the drama that
would go on that was so unnecessary and so frustrating
that I mean, Jamie and I would be there in
the office banging our heads against the wall like when
does this end? You know, when will this ever stop?
You know, because it was so ridiculous the things that

(02:43:29):
would happen and the petty little arguments, and it's just
a ve. I'm just like, you know what this is.
I'm done with it, and I retracted people it was.

Speaker 3 (02:43:39):
It was.

Speaker 1 (02:43:39):
I identify so much with that because every now and
then that comes up in the lectionary and I'm like,
I always laugh. I always giggle because it's like, oh,
this is I get this one. This is when we
all pastors get this. I really get this because I've
lived this, you know. But that's the way it is.
Any other questions anything coming on han't mean that.

Speaker 3 (02:44:01):
I think I'm going to shoot off.

Speaker 1 (02:44:03):
We're over the hour, Okay, that's fine, I'm going to
continue on to we still got we still got fifteen
minutes and that's just because we started so late. So
I'm going to I'm going to complete the fifteen minutes.
But you're welcome.

Speaker 3 (02:44:19):
Despite the trials. Is really good to be to be
back on and it is.

Speaker 1 (02:44:24):
I do. I mean, I know I bitch and complain
and everything else, but you know, I really do like
the show. I love this audience. I really enjoy our people.
I really do. So I'm always happy to be able
to bring this show to you. I wouldn't do it
if I didn't feel there was value here. So and
of course you're such an intrinsic part of it. Father,
So thank you, thank you. Let's take care. So, Beren,

(02:44:48):
did you see another one? We can probably take maybe
one or two more questions if you see any I.

Speaker 5 (02:44:54):
Didn't see any of the chat, but I do have
more backup.

Speaker 1 (02:44:57):
Go go for it, let's do it.

Speaker 12 (02:44:59):
So.

Speaker 6 (02:44:59):
Some run a similar topic of extricisms. One of our
members would write a book where it was talking about
extorcisms taking days to complete. Is the true with fallen
angel demons or justisms in general?

Speaker 1 (02:45:13):
I mean it could be any I mean, there's no
there's no definitive rule there. You could have an extorcism
that's not finding its origin in a fullen demon a
fallen angel rather and and and it still could take
days or even weeks or months, and then you could
have a fallen angel that you can resolve in one shot.

(02:45:37):
A lot of it depends upon the willingness of the
of the victim to take the grace of CHRISI into
their life. And unfortunately, most of the time, the people
that we end up seeing because remember, okay, remember this
church tries to help everyone. The Roman Catholic Church typically

(02:45:59):
reserved these rights for their own members. So when the
Roman Catholic Church deals with exorcism, they're usually dealing with
somebody that is already part of a family and a parish,
and they can go to that family and they can
get they have background, the pastor might even know them.
They might have known them for a long time, and

(02:46:19):
so there's history there. They're not going to typically take
cases off the street like we do. So the people
we tend to get are people that are forced to
come to us because they can't get help from conventional
churches since they have no relationship with them. And that

(02:46:41):
is already and this is perhaps why, or i should
say the main reason why the Roman Catholic Church. Likely.
I don't know for sure what their reasoning is, I mean,
but I think one of the main ones would be
that the prognosis is very poor when a person already
doesn't have an established relationship with Christ and probably doesn't
even want one, but now it's just coming for help

(02:47:02):
because now they're desperate. And how many times, Jamie, did
you see this was again we were talking about the
Mission Church. And I don't want to get back on
that negative train, but you know, the Mission Church, we
spent like fifty thousand dollars of very precious benefactor moneies,
you know, because back then that was a lot to
this church. I mean, that was the be all and

(02:47:24):
end all, right we had, I mean the church had nothing.
So then we did not have the donations we're having
coming in today. And not that I'm saying we have
a whole lot coming in, but we had a whole
lot let's go in then. And so using that money
to get a commercial property for two years. The rent
was between rent and everything we needed to get it

(02:47:44):
going was about twenty five thousand a year, which is
a lot to spend on a church that, you know,
people were barely giving five dollars in the collection basket.
It was it was insane. But the whole idea was,
let's get a place where we can inspire people to come.
So when people come to us, we know they're not

(02:48:06):
going to be affiliated with any church. We know they
haven't been going well, we know they need to go
because this is likely how the problem started in the
first place. And they could come to they could come here,
and then this could become their family. So what would happen,
you know, what would happen is that they'd come, we'd
solve their problem, and then we never see them again.
That's it.

Speaker 2 (02:48:26):
Bye, a new intake.

Speaker 1 (02:48:31):
Yeah, you didn't what you did didn't work. No, what
you didn't do didn't work. That's what That's what happened. Okay,
that's why you're in the situation.

Speaker 2 (02:48:41):
So got you prescription, he didn't take the medicine.

Speaker 1 (02:48:43):
Yeah, And so it's kind of like, you know, extra
system is so much like being a doctor. Okay, it's
like you're only as good as your patient's willingness actually
change their life. So if you have a person that
the chronic smoker, you know, and is developing emphaseme, you know,
some kind of lung cancer whatever, and you're like saying, look,

(02:49:05):
you're in stage one. We can fix this, but you're
going to have to give up smoking otherwise. You know
this is she's going to kill you. And you know,
so you do the operation, perform all this expensive work.
Maybe you've do stuff, you know, pro bono, and they
don't give it up, and then they the problem worsens.
It's like, what can you do for a person like that. Nothing.

(02:49:27):
So the reason why sometimes exorcistems take years is because
you're dealing with the resistance of the person, not the
strength of a demon, but the resistance of a person
to take the grace of Christian They just won't have
it for whatever reason. Sometimes it's not apathy most of
the time. It is in our work because of the

(02:49:47):
kind of people that on affiliated, people on Christians that
are not Christians, and people that don't desire a church life.
That's apathy. But you know, sometimes, like the Roman Catholic Church,
you do have people that are receiving sacraments and they're
loving the Christian laughing normal. You know, sometimes they are

(02:50:08):
are just self haters and they just don't feel that
they're worthy of christ grace, And so it's kind of
almost like a type of psychological complex where they just
feel so guilty for being a sinner whatever they might
have done, that they won't let the grace of Christ
come in and heal them from the.

Speaker 2 (02:50:28):
Effect nothing the things I've done, you won't forgive.

Speaker 1 (02:50:33):
All the time. So you know, it's kind of like
that that that's that's going to be your primary factors
when looking at the time frame for a resolution. So
you can't say, well, it's just because it's a fallen angel,
they're harder to get rid of. Yes they are. They
are because typically what we call fallen angels only attaches

(02:50:55):
to people that are really good targets. Okay, they don't
typically waste their time on something that isn't going to
be a good price for them. So you know, that's
kind of another factor maybe in a stream is valuable

(02:51:15):
that comes into play when you're looking at what might
be the prognosis here. But you know, it is what
it is, and you know, spiritual apathy is for us
is the biggest problem we see. They just they don't
want church life, they don't want Christian obligation, they don't
want to support a church, they don't want to donate

(02:51:36):
to a church. So they don't want any of that.
All they want is make me feel better. And when
you do, you don't see them again until they start
feeling bad again. And we eventually an end to that.
We in the in the earlier days, you know, we
we try and you know we'd work with them, and
we were patient. My patience has run much more than

(02:51:59):
and got just too many cases, too many cases. But
also I think a little jaded, if I dare say
a little jaded, because you know you eventually I think
you know this. Has anyone ever studied has anyone ever
studied Eric Erickson in psychology? You ever studied Eric ericson.

Speaker 2 (02:52:23):
The podcaster?

Speaker 4 (02:52:27):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (02:52:32):
Yeah, it was a psychoanalyst. It was it was Danish
and Danish German psycho analyst. He came up with a
stages of life and what what basically is like at
different points in a person's development, they will have to

(02:52:52):
con they will have a basically a fork in the
road and there's a path that they can go to,
a simil that will lead towards a successful direction, and
then there's a path where if they go the path
it's not healthy. Then they tend to have problems subsequently

(02:53:12):
as they go on and when you reach the stage
of life that I'm in, the most important thing for
people my age is to be able to look at
the work that they've done and feel and feel intrinsically
that they that their life had value. Because you reach
a stage right like, it's the last, the last stage

(02:53:32):
to the end. Uh, there's only one more stage after
this in Ericson's model, and that is basically, you know,
the the elderly stage where you kind of look back
at life and and and decide whether or not you're successful.
And you can. You'll either be contented by the fact
that your life was successful or you'll look back and
be despondent because it wasn't in my stage you're in,

(02:53:54):
And I kind of like that that that shadowy realm
where what you're actively participating in has to bring intrinsic fulfillment,
otherwise you start to feel like your life is meanings.
This is actually the origin point to the mid life
crisis that tends to happen for people in their late
forties early fifties. It's caused by a disconnect that happens

(02:54:17):
where they just feel like their life hasn't brought the
meaning that they had wanted and and and for me,
it's interesting because it's like doing this work has been
such a mixed bag.

Speaker 12 (02:54:30):
You know.

Speaker 1 (02:54:30):
It's like there's for there's a there's a handful of
people that I know have their lives have been changed
by this church. And then there's another handful, probably even
a larger group of people that their lives have been
changed by this church that have never even told me.
I find out a wrong integrity versus the Spira stage.

(02:54:51):
Thank you, Marina. I knew that somebody out there knew
that what I was talking about. I couldn't remember what
it was. Been too many years since I studied psychology
and me we're talking on one of the three day
three decades now, but yeah, to think, Yeah, but what
was I saying? I forgot, I lost my train of thought.

(02:55:13):
I lost my train of thought. But I was I
was just talking about you know that you you get
into this this this Oh yeah, a handful of people,
That's what I was talking about. You know, there's there's
a there's a group that I probably never know about
that have been changed by this church. But you know,
when you're dealing with these apathetic people, and that's what
you're seeing and that's what you're actively involved with. Over

(02:55:34):
and over and over again. You really start to feel
like your life has no meaning anymore. And that's been
the hardest part for me, and I have to reel
myself back in because the interesting thing is that the Internet,
the people on the Internet, the people find me and
become part of this community. People like Brandon in fact

(02:55:56):
find me because he didn't find me through ghost Adventures,
which is blessing because let's say found me for the
right reasons, not that you guys that found me on
goes to Adventures found me for the wrong I'm not
saying that, but I'm just saying that. You know, sometimes
we get people that just are fan gooing for the show,
and they're like, they see me as one step away
from beginning to meet Zach. I know most of our
people are not like that, but there are a lot

(02:56:17):
of people that are that don't last too long when
they realize that. I'm not going to culminate that Brandon
had no no knowledge of this at all. He came
in with a completely different mindset and and that looked
to you know, I realized, you know that he he
was getting value out of this, and uh, and there's

(02:56:38):
a lot of people like him that do and did
and and and so that reaffirms. But so it's like
my internet people. The people I don't get to see
and talk to all the time are the ones that
I remember that this is what I'm doing it for.
I don't feel that as much because there's it's like
words on the screen most of the time. So I

(02:56:58):
do the show a lot because it's like it breaks
it a little bit more real. I can talk to you.
You guys call me. Most of you don't call me,
so I don't really get to know you at all.
But then the other side of the clients. What we
did the retreat house, I was hoping that, you know,
maybe people will come, we can make this more tangible,
but unfortunately we did the When we did the mission church,

(02:57:18):
they only wanted to take. They didn't want to give,
and they didn't want to be a part of anything.
They were just wasting my time. That's very, very discouraging
from any point of view. I don't care who you are.
You don't even have to be a Christian or a
pastor understand that you know anything of any job where
basically you don't really, you're not appreciated and you're not valued.

(02:57:41):
It's hard to continue to work, you know, something I
struggle with every day. Anyway, next week we're going to
be dealing with uh, the what was it?

Speaker 2 (02:57:51):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (02:57:51):
The reality, the spilation theory. Yes, that's next week, Tuesday
at eight pm. Brandon, thank you, Jamie, thank you, and
thank all of you for being with us tonight. I'm
sorry for the problems, but you know what, yeah, thanks
for thinking through it. I promised to make the show
better this season. It won't be as chaotic as it

(02:58:13):
was today. I will do my best. We've got some
very interesting guests and different topics this season, all new ones.
We don't have any return guests this season so far,
all new ones. Okay, so you don't want to miss
anything coming up, and hopefully we'll have all these bugs
worked out by the time they come on. Soy, I
didn't schedule an cast for the first two episodes. I

(02:58:33):
knew this was going to be a challenge, all right. Well, anyway,
we'll see you next week. Pick here, God bless and
I will see you out there.

Speaker 4 (02:59:11):
Tools Slish studists, The the is the best theater

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