Open Lines/Open Topics for September 23, 2025

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
And as to say, as.

Speaker 2 (00:51):
To be read, as to.

Speaker 1 (00:58):
Look at, to say, good morning, good afternoon, good evening,

(01:51):
whichever the case may be. For all of you listening
out there across the crazy planet Earth, welcome to a
brand new season, season twelve of Vestiges after Dark, and
I am your host, Bishop Brian will let coming to

(02:13):
you live from the deep woods of Western Georgia on
this September twenty third, twenty twenty five tonight. We like
to start off these days anyway. We'd like to start
off every new season with open lines, open topics. It
gives me a chance to get back into the rhythm

(02:35):
of things, and it gives you your favorite show. You
get to be the guest and I will answer, and
my panel will answer all the questions that you present
to us, either by calling into the show we'll have
that number up shortly, or in the chatrooms across the internet.
It's always a great one here tonight on Vestiges after Dark. Well, hello, everybody,

(03:57):
welcome to tonight's episode of Vestiges after Dark. I hope
you have had a wonderful summer. I hope it was
relaxing and everything else that summer should be. I know,
I had an interesting summer, did some interesting things, and
you know, we still have our summer specials, so it's
not been too long since we've last had a chance

(04:19):
to spend a Tuesday night together. But we're back in
full season now on this brand new one, and I
hope that you're ready for it. We've got some good
episodes lined up for you. Still work in on a few, actually,
so the full season should be coming into perspective very
soon and we'll know exactly what we have available to

(04:41):
you for the rest of the year. All the wait
till just about the Advent season is when we stop.
So probably nine ten episodes something like that, I think. Anyway,
I want to jump right in here because it's been
a while and I you know, like I said, we
I've done a few crazy things with the Conjuring. You know,

(05:03):
the Conjuring four came out last Rites. I think it's
called right Conjuring Last Rites, and I was unexpectedly called
to go and handle a few of the opening premieres.
It wasn't really a premiere. It was more like a preview,

(05:24):
a screening I think they call it, where people were invited,
and the one in Texas had some I guess big
influencers Internet TikTok influencers there and I didn't realize that.
But when I was there and I was asked to
bless anybody who wanted it and hand out holy water
to anybody who wanted it. Interestingly enough, practically everybody took

(05:47):
the holy water. Almost everyone took the blessing. I think
only four people out of two one hundred and fifty refused,
so that's pretty good, I think. And everyone took the
holy water, so we didn't have any left. But I
didn't realize that those influencers would have spotted me from
Ghost Adventures and it kind of became a little bit

(06:07):
of a Ghost Adventures yeah instead. Yeah, I was like,
it was a little embarrassing because it's like, I'm here
to promote the conjuring for not Ghost Adventures. But uh
uh they got excited and uh and and apparently some
of those videos went viral sometimes for the wrong reasons,

(06:28):
because a lot of people have criticisms about saying it
was a promotional stunt from the studio and uh and look,
I'm not gonna I'm not gonna confirm or deny that
I really don't know what their motivations are. They just
said they wanted a priest there, uh, and they wanted
me at those So that's that's all I can really
testify to. But I will say this, I will say this,

(06:50):
if it was promotional, promotional stunt or not, who cares.
Because people got blessed and they wanted it, And I
don't see the harm there and this. It wasn't like
we were forcing them to do it. They could have
know and they did so. A few of them did
say no, but most of I mean most of them
came up to me and we had some really interesting conversations,

(07:12):
and so I think it was actually a good thing,
even if it was, you know, for promotional reasons. You know,
it still does some good to be there and to
be able to confer a nice sacramental blessing to those
who were seeking it. And in Texas, and particularly this
part of Texas is McCallan right out there in Mexican border,

(07:35):
very Catholic down there because it's a very Mexican population
down there, So you know, they have a cultural understanding
of this that you don't typically find just by anywhere
else in this country. You know, Catholicism is more subdued
here in America, but in the Mexican communities it is
alive and well and it's cultural. It's almost, i would say,

(07:56):
almost as cultural as Judaism is to is. You know,
you'll find a lot of Jewish people who do not
practice Judaism anymore, but yet they still practice so many
of the Jewish traditions that are religious just because it's
culturally part of their life. They grew up with it
as traditional. And we have that with UH, you know,

(08:19):
with the Mexico and and and and the Mexican UH culture.
It's it's a it's a nice thing, and so they
were very happy about it. That's where this Annabelle comes from.
This is a I was one of the first ones
to get the nabel popcorn.

Speaker 3 (08:33):
UH.

Speaker 1 (08:34):
Yeah. It is kind of cool, isn't it. Anyway, As
I said, I am Bishop Brian will At you're a
host with my co host Jamie Wolf, and we're here
to start tonight off with our other two fantastic UH
co hosts, I guess you could say, or you know,
they're always here. So they're always here to help to
add to the discussion and to be able to enliven

(08:56):
the the the the richness of your questions with their
own perspective. So tonight we have from Australia. Father christiates
with us. How you're doing tonight, father?

Speaker 4 (09:07):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (09:07):
Good, thanks. I also enjoyed sorry, oh yeah, bit monkey magic.

Speaker 1 (09:14):
A monkey.

Speaker 3 (09:18):
Yeah. I also enjoyed the conjuring last rites. Well, I mean,
after after I had vociferously corrected the cinema etiquette of
the people sitting next to me. What has happened in cinemas? Like,
literally nobody knows how to behave anymore. It's crazy.

Speaker 5 (09:37):
It's all about.

Speaker 3 (09:40):
Do you know what's amazing?

Speaker 6 (09:40):
Though?

Speaker 3 (09:41):
The guy was at least my age, if not older,
but couldn't be off the phone.

Speaker 5 (09:49):
Yeah yeah, And so.

Speaker 3 (09:51):
Even after the advert has literally been on about about
Tony phone off and I was getting angry. But my
wife is far smarter than being much funny, and she
said she just sends them said are you waiting for
an organ donation?

Speaker 5 (10:06):
Get off your damn bunks.

Speaker 3 (10:09):
So anyway, but I really enjoyed the movie, Actually I was.

Speaker 1 (10:14):
I was.

Speaker 3 (10:14):
I was pleasantly not surprised. I thought I'd be the
wrong word, but I was pleased with the content. I
thought it was really good presentation, of you know, obviously
dramatization of the sorts of things that we talk about
and that we encounter when we when we when we
deal with the demonic.

Speaker 1 (10:32):
Yes, yeah, I mean it's good. I think there are
a few things that were wrong with the film.

Speaker 5 (10:38):
I have not seen it yet. You have no spoilers. Well,
I mean I know the case, but.

Speaker 1 (10:46):
There's a few problems with the film from a from
a the standpoint, I guess of of of the procedures,
you know, things that would happen, things that wouldn't happen,
things that Catholic Themas do or not do. I think
they could have screen keeps going to my desktop. Is

(11:07):
that happening right now?

Speaker 3 (11:11):
Well, it didn't know it stopped. I think it might be.

Speaker 1 (11:16):
Okay, I don't know. I'm noticing that there is a
there was a lag a little back. Did anybody notice
any kind of buffering issues? Okay, that's probably what's causing it.
It's this thing. Let me turn that off. Yeah, that's
probably what's causing it. Did anybody notice any lag? I mean,

(11:36):
this is why we do open lines for the first
episode of the season. It could have been when I
was trying to solve that problem, and that might have
been what it was. See. Look, stream lives has a
terrible situation here because the notification center to check your
error messages pops up in this big, giant screen that

(11:56):
sort of takes over the entire broadcast, and that most
likely was what you were looking at when I was
trying to solve what that error message was, because it
does look like there was a lag around eight oh
nine pm, but you know that it seems to have
since resolved. I know that my network adapter was having

(12:18):
some issues before this show, not related to the Internet
at all. This was more of a local hardware issue. Okay,
you're outside, none on Wi Fi, I could be your
connection that did anyone else? Did anyone else notice any
lag in the intro? Just for my own purposes, it
just helps me.

Speaker 7 (12:37):
To I think I did for a couple of seconds
around that time, Like through zoom, I did notice it
for a couple seconds.

Speaker 3 (12:44):
And then it stopped.

Speaker 1 (12:45):
Okay, that's good to know.

Speaker 5 (12:47):
Thank you stop.

Speaker 1 (12:48):
All right, We'll see we'll see how it goes. But
if you guys notice anything, just let me know in
the comments and I'll try to keep an eye on it.
There's not much I can do once we're live, you know,
without disrupting the entire broadcast. But I think we're okay.
We're getting really good speeds. It just looked like the
network adapter is not working the way it should and
I have a brand new one over here that didn't
work at all, So I don't know what's going on. Anyway,

(13:11):
we'll see if we can.

Speaker 3 (13:14):
Aside from the country, of course, we we've just come
to the end of winter here so and it's been
I think the rainiest winter I've ever known in my
life here in Australia, well, certainly here in New South
Wales right here, right, well, we finally got some sunshine here,
so I just feel like it feels like, you know,
the seasons have turned here. So I'm looking forward to

(13:37):
some warm weather. But you guys are hunkering down for
the cold.

Speaker 1 (13:40):
Yeah, we're getting ready for it. I mean looking forward
to it too.

Speaker 5 (13:43):
My favorite time of year.

Speaker 1 (13:44):
So I did mine too. Joining us from Tennessee. We
have branded milem. You already heard from him, but he's
here as as waiting, waiting for the season. He looks
forward to this, don't you, Brandon.

Speaker 3 (13:56):
I do.

Speaker 7 (13:56):
It's just like when we don't have messages, don't have
anything to do work. It's but I did watch the
Conjuring as well. Would think like, so, without spoiling it,
you're welcome, Jamie. I for the most part, I did
enjoy it. I think the worst part about it for

(14:19):
me wasn't even the movie itself. It was the fact
that how much prices have increased. Yeah, yeah, because I
think the last time I went to the movies was
to see I think Jaws is fiftieth anniversary. Okay, it's
been a while, and so like the price of the
take it was fifteen dollars, and then if you got

(14:39):
like a small popcorn and a small drink, you're looking
at thirty one thirty two dollars. I thought, oh my god,
I would just wait to stream it for like seven
a month.

Speaker 5 (14:50):
I've been doing it.

Speaker 1 (14:51):
I didn't know that's what's happening. So that's the problem,
And they're kind of shooting themselves in the foot because
I mean, you can't be I mean, if you're willing
to wait just a short time, and it's really a
short time, now, excuse me, you can you know you
can save so much money that way. I think that's
what's happening.

Speaker 3 (15:11):
I was gonna say to all the Zoomers in the audience,
we used to have to wait, like yeah, yeah, to
go from cinema to videotape.

Speaker 1 (15:21):
I mean, tell me, do you remember these times? I mean,
I don't. You might be even too young for this one, father,
But I remember when I was a boy. I remember
when poultry Geist Too came I was a poultry Geist
I'm still a huge poultry guyst one of my favorite
movies of all time. And then when Poultrygeist Too came out,
I was like, so, ex, I can't believe they're making
a sequel to my favorite movie. Right, And I was
still a kid, right and uh and and so that

(15:43):
would come out, and you, of course, you know, you'd
binge it in the theaters, maybe go see it three
or four times, Matt and Abeck in those days, was
probably like six bucks. And and then if you wanted
to own it, okay, not only did you have to
wait a bet out a little over a year before
it was available on VHS, but to buy a new

(16:07):
VHS of a movie that was just released to VHS
was in the two or three hundred dollars range just
to get the movie and so owning a new movie
was just not possible. What you typically did in those
days is, if it was a big enough movie, you
waited for it to be aired as a Sunday night

(16:28):
special on one of the major networks ABC, NBC and
recorded it. Yeah, and then you'd had it on your own.
But you'd have to usually wait about three years for that.
So if you liked a movie, if you really enjoyed
a movie, you were pretty much shit out of luck.
After it was out of the theater.

Speaker 5 (16:45):
Time did you get it on HBO or cinematics a
few months and then you recorded it.

Speaker 1 (16:49):
From You could record it from that if you were lucky.

Speaker 5 (16:51):
Yeah, if you were lucky or like, may not own it.
But I know when I was a teenager, you have
a friend that works at the theater and you watch it,
come back out, go back in, watch it again, only
pay once. Yeah, watching to get sick of it.

Speaker 1 (17:07):
Yeah right.

Speaker 3 (17:08):
I mean I did notice though that you know cinema.
Cinema prices in America are way higher than they are
in the UK or Australia.

Speaker 1 (17:15):
I'm sure.

Speaker 3 (17:16):
So I think you guys are subsidizing the rest of
the world on on movies.

Speaker 1 (17:21):
Which is kind of funny considering that we're the ones
making most of them.

Speaker 3 (17:24):
You know, I guess. I guess you also get the
most employment out.

Speaker 1 (17:29):
Of it, so you know, and Yang, I mean maybe,
I mean, but not for long, because like I said,
these I think they're pricing themselves out of the market.

Speaker 5 (17:37):
I really are, because I can get I watched Weapons
last night on it was already on TRIG.

Speaker 8 (17:45):
I did not like it too weird.

Speaker 5 (17:48):
No, it wasn't that. It was just like I have
to have answers to questions that were never I'm like,
you know, I have to know.

Speaker 1 (17:55):
The way it ended was just like I think it's
going to have a sequel.

Speaker 5 (18:00):
I'm sure it will, but yeah, I was rather disappointed,
but it was It was nice to be able to
get it on Prime download it pay twenty bucks and
I can I can pause it whenever I want, go
to the restroom whenever I want. I could be comfortable
and my own recliner, make snacks, you know, and for
twenty bucks, you can have as many people as you
wander over at the house. And I ain't got to

(18:21):
pay all this stuff for the the popcorn. I make
better popcorn at home anyway.

Speaker 1 (18:25):
Usually so.

Speaker 5 (18:27):
So that was nice. But yeah, I'm waiting for Conjuring
four to come out because I'm honestly, unless I'm going
with you guys, I could care less about going to
the theater anymore.

Speaker 1 (18:33):
Well, you know, I I limit my theater visits, not
for financial reasons, just for time reasons, to just the
movies that I have to see.

Speaker 5 (18:43):
People.

Speaker 1 (18:45):
Well, that is it. I mean a lot of it
is that because when we have a theater here, we
have a home theater here, and it is far more
comfortable than going to That's a very comfortable, the very
nice and it's even better than when you here when
we had just moved in. We've made it nice in there.
You know. It's it's it's you know, I can drink
what I want, I can I can pause the movie

(19:05):
and go to the bathroom if I need to, exactly.
You know, there's all sorts of things that you can do, especially.

Speaker 3 (19:11):
Six hours long. I know, right, it's more important.

Speaker 1 (19:13):
I mean, at least back in the day they had
into mission between the two parts. I wanted to do
that anymore.

Speaker 5 (19:18):
I remember when was it, Uh, Space Odyssey is not
the one that had like two intermissions.

Speaker 1 (19:24):
Might have been sound of music had one.

Speaker 5 (19:27):
I never went to theater saw that, but yeah, you
know when when you got a small bladder, you're waiting
for that that dead that dead time in the movie
theater and you got just you give yourself like forty
five seconds to run down, go come back. Yeah, home
are just like pause. It's just much more easy.

Speaker 1 (19:44):
I mean, you know, there's advantages to it, so I
can understand. So they they you know, it's kind of
like Vegas. They're they're pricing themselves out of the market.
It's greed. It is greed. You know, you have to
you have to find that balance. Nobody has an eye
for back lens anymore. With anything. It's not even just
you know, economics, it's it's it's it's it's common sense. Honestly,

(20:07):
no one has it. I mean it's just ridiculous, not
that all. When they say, you know, common sense is
in all that common I kind of agree with that. Anyway,
let's get started with questions from the ether tonight. So Brandon,
what's our first one for this this new season?

Speaker 7 (20:22):
So before we do that, I want to say everyone,
happy raps for day.

Speaker 5 (20:26):
Yeah we're still here.

Speaker 1 (20:29):
Well not well, I mean, father father been left again. Yeah,
but father Chris, you're already in the twenty fourth, right,
so I mean, well, Tracy said it was supposed to
be the twenty third or the twenty fourth.

Speaker 5 (20:40):
Yeah, so we still have tennis. Yeah, I saw that.

Speaker 1 (20:46):
From Brandon. Probably knows where's it come from? Brandon.

Speaker 3 (20:52):
You probably know this is a uniquely American brain word.

Speaker 5 (20:56):
Well, it's hilarious because people were talking about that. We're
kind of got a big laugh at it. So other
Catholic friends were talking about putting throwing their clothes out
into the front yard. So it looks like you were ascended,
so your neighbors can say, oh my god, they took
up it on me. But so silly.

Speaker 7 (21:18):
Apparently there was a South African pastor who claimed to
have received a vision from Jesus saying that it was
going to be either September twenty third or twenty fourth.
I guess it wasn't specific. And then they're linking it
to the Jewish holiday, the Feast of.

Speaker 5 (21:35):
Trumpets, right, let's started to day.

Speaker 1 (21:37):
I think, well, okay, so this is why the magistrum
of the church. Okay, you know that big, nasty, dirty
thing that every other denomination doesn't like but I mean
serves a purpose. Is this is why the magisterium, okay,
cautions constant has been doing this for hundreds of years

(21:58):
against private revelation, Okay, because you know, private revelation is
usually wrong and the Holy Spirit doesn't work through one
person at a time, the universe. The Holy Spirit works
in a unified sense. Everything the Holy Spirit does to
inspire us is always done in a communal sense. It's

(22:20):
never done for the individual. And that's what people don't
understand in the evangelical circles. They they think that the
Holy spirits their own personal possession.

Speaker 3 (22:29):
I've also experienced it on this show. I mean, you know,
on this on the show, you know people who've had
their you know, near death experiences or the or you know,
lots of other genre of these things. And I'm not
saying that those things are not are not important for them,
but what it always it always goes wrong when they
try to extrap like that out to everyone, generic principle

(22:50):
for everybody. Yeah, because actually, personal revelation is a real thing,
but it's only for you, right and if you know,
and you can share your story, but it's not down
to that can't change the fundamental teachings of the Church.
I mean, that's that is the point. Purpose of the
magisterium is to assess personal revelation against the against the theodrama,

(23:11):
the permanent, never changing revelation of God.

Speaker 1 (23:15):
I thank you for making that distinction, because you're right,
and I should have made that clear that yes, the
Holy Spirit, of course can can inspire us towards individual reasons.
But if you're being given a message, if you're getting
a vision where the Holy Spirit says, or you think

(23:36):
it's the Holy Spirit telling you that you know the
world's going to end on September twenty third, that's all
the evidence you need to know that this is not
a genuine revelation, because the Holy Spirit is not going.

Speaker 9 (23:48):
To do that.

Speaker 8 (23:49):
Yeah, it's the passage.

Speaker 5 (23:51):
We know, not the day nor the time.

Speaker 1 (23:52):
Jesus doesn't Christ himself, Jesus does. What do you think
you think you're better than when you think that you
can actually discern something that Jesus himself couldn't. I mean,
give me a break. That's the most ridiculous thing that
anyone could ever claim. You know, I was listening to
Coast to Coast I am last night, you know, and

(24:13):
George Norri had this guy on that was he Norri
introduced him as a biblical scholar. This guy was no
scholar and he eventually did qualify that. So good on
him for actually correcting George Norri about this, because this
is a guy that literally started listening to Coast to

(24:36):
Coast I Am about ten years ago, got inspired to
pick up his King James version of the Bible and
start reading it. And then he claimed that God started
speaking to him through the pages of this book. And
now this guy thinks he's Jesus Christ, and he was
on presenting himself as I am Jesus. This is the

(24:58):
kind of dangerous We all know.

Speaker 3 (25:00):
This lives in Queensland. Lives in Queensland, so I can post.

Speaker 1 (25:06):
You know, he knows.

Speaker 3 (25:08):
You know, he's white. He made it all quite famous.
You know, he doesn't hide. But he apparently he is Jesus.
Jesus yes, so there's some competition, afraid.

Speaker 1 (25:18):
I'm sure I knew another guy that thought he was
Jesus too. He called himself a Omega Christ. This was
back in the day, long time ago. He was the
Omega Christ because this is the Christ that was supposed
to come back to end everything. Well we're still here
all these years later, you know. And let's face it,
there has never been a prediction clearly that the world
was going to end that ever came true. And there's

(25:41):
been so many. There's been so many. I mean, they
used to think the world was going to end in
the year one thousand, because you know, all of a sudden,
now we're you know, four digits in, I guess, and
that's going to be it. Hy two k was going
to be the big end for some people.

Speaker 9 (25:53):
You know.

Speaker 3 (25:54):
The really important thing to know is that the world
will end, yes, but when when it will end, you're.

Speaker 5 (25:58):
Not going to know what it is.

Speaker 1 (26:00):
And they almost important thing if you're really concerned about
private revelation and all that shit. Okay, when you die,
it's over for you, so you know you're gonna catch
your wish sooner than you think. And it really doesn't
matter when it's over for everybody, because when you die,
it is over for you. And that's really the only
thing you need to worry about, right be you know,

(26:21):
tend to your own spiritual care, I think, instead of
worrying about what's going to happen to the entire world.
This end times crap has gone off the deep end,
and I'm so tired of it. The evangelical movement has
gone off the deep end, and it's making us all
look bad, and it's giving me a headache because you know,

(26:42):
it makes my job a thousand times harder when I
have to correct this. For the people that know that
this is clearly bullshit and now have no interest in
dealing with Christianity or Christians because this is their exposure,
this is their experience, and they think we're all like that.
It's very hard to kind of convince them that, no,
this is a very loud but very small branch, and

(27:05):
it's not so small here in this country, but the
rest of the world generally speaking, is not like this.

Speaker 5 (27:10):
Well, all you have to do is look up the
rapture and you'll know that it wasn't even a thing
into what eighteen twenty eighteen forty Darby John Darby decided
to pull it out of his rear end, and now
every evangelical swears by it.

Speaker 1 (27:24):
Yeah, and and it was very clearly invented, you know, invented.

Speaker 5 (27:28):
Just look him up.

Speaker 1 (27:31):
They don't do that. No one wants to do research
because the Holy Spirit guides.

Speaker 9 (27:34):
You y know.

Speaker 5 (27:36):
Yes, well, I hope you guide you to Google.

Speaker 1 (27:40):
That would be a good way, right. I mean, it's
like a spirit doesn't have to work so hard now
because we do have search engines. It's easy. You know,
it's insane AI too, we do, we have a I'll say,
you know, they'll, they'll, they'll, they'll tell you everything you
need to know. Okay, so let's go get started with
because I know your first question is relating to this.

Speaker 7 (28:00):
Yes, so apparently the world's supposed to end September twenty third, surprise.

Speaker 9 (28:05):
Hi.

Speaker 7 (28:06):
Many people are saying that they've had visions of Jesus
telling them of the date. Wouldn't this be a type
of aggrigor in the mass consciousness of society.

Speaker 1 (28:16):
Yeah, that's exactly how agrigors are generated and how they
work from a metaphysical stampot, because ultimately this is really
more of a metaphysical question. Eggrigors, for those who are
not familiar with the Western mystery tradition, or the Eastern
one for that matter, are basically what are known as
thought forms. They are incorporeal projections of mental data that

(28:40):
can exit the into the the corporeal and affect the
world in corporeal ways, they're called thought forms in the
East are called tolpiz. But when they become sort of
a larger than life sort of reality that starts to
affect multi people on a grand scale, then we tend

(29:03):
to call them eggrigors because it's this larger thought form
that's affecting a large number of people. And this is
absolutely a type of eggrigor that is toxic. And make
no mistake about it. It has all of the possession
ability of a actual demon in the fallen angel sense

(29:25):
or the more traditional sense perhaps is a better way
to say that.

Speaker 5 (29:29):
I think about how easy it would be to create
one when you have someone so impressionable about their faith.
Now this is going to happen. You know, they're looking
so forward to it.

Speaker 1 (29:38):
Well, and see that's the thing about fervor, Okay, people
are not typically in my experience as a pastor, one
thing that I would say is the greatest flaw that
humanity has in terms of its faith experience is that
there's a lot of fervor, there's a lot of perseverance,

(30:00):
but there is almost no discernment. So they don't do
The average Christian does not do a good job being
able to discern the difference between a endorphin high in
their brain and an actual spiritual experience from God. They
can't tell the difference between the two, which is a

(30:21):
very dangerous thing. So much so that a person that
is weak in this regard is probably not going to
get a genuine vision from God because God doesn't want
to be the author of confusion. That's the devil's job, right,
So you know, this is the real issue here, is

(30:42):
that these kinds of things become can become a source
of confusion and disruption in people's lives, as will case
in point. The guy on last night's Coast to Coast go,
if you've got the Coast to Coast app, you know,
going back and listen to it. You know, this is
a person who is, I don't think very stable. And

(31:02):
you know, I don't I don't like when people get
on the air, you know, and and they they go
and they write these these these books to.

Speaker 5 (31:11):
George ahead of time.

Speaker 1 (31:12):
Probably not, I mean, I don't know. I'll be honest
with you the conversation, if I had been George Norie
and I was gifted, you know, trusted and trusted with
the care of Coast to cos a m from Marpel
I would have ended that that interview, and I would
have I would have said, no, we're moving on, No,

(31:34):
no way. I would not have allowed somebody to monopolize
the airwaves for two hours, you know, talking foolishness like this,
because this is just not helpful. You know, if we
had a person that came on this show and started
presenting themselves as Jesus Christ, would be over, be done
some fun first. Well, I mean, I'm sure we'd have

(31:56):
some words for them, but they would not have two
hours on this show. And you know, George can run
it the way he wants to write, He can run
the way he wants to. But for me, no, I
would not. I would not as tolerate that. I don't
think to answer your question, I do not think that
he knew. However, were you listening or watching, well, that

(32:16):
it's just the radio.

Speaker 5 (32:17):
Show, I would be curious.

Speaker 1 (32:21):
Yeah, well, just judging from the things that he was asking,
I could kind of tell that it seemed like he
was because he doesn't usually introduce someone as a biblical
scholar unless they really are one. So that this guy
didn't even have a I don't think he even had
a high school degree. He was a truck drive. He's
a truck driver, so.

Speaker 3 (32:42):
You know the truck driver.

Speaker 1 (32:44):
No, No, that's not what I mean by that. But
I mean, you know the guy, the guy is driving
trucks and then you know, is reading the Bible on
the side and now has declared himself, you know, Jesus Christ.
You know that's not how it works. Okay, First of all,
biblical scholar, if you're going to go through the process

(33:06):
of getting a degree in theology, chances are you're you're
you're not going to be driving trucks. And that's what
I meant by that. And the other side of the
coin is you're also not going to declare yourself Jesus
Christ on the air. You know, he actually said I'm
coming out. I'm coming out. This is you're hearing it
for the first time right here. And he's you know,

(33:29):
he's here to usher in the end times. That's why
he says he's here. So uh, you know, look, go.

Speaker 5 (33:34):
Ahead, buddy, you'll go to the wayside. Like the guy,
the guy in the beanie You remember him, Oh I do?
He dropped off like a bad habit. Yeah, so this
guy will be the same way.

Speaker 1 (33:43):
My feeling is this Okay? Look, I can, I can
be criticized for taking a harsh stance on such people.
But the problem is is that I see this as
dangerous to people's salvation. It's dangerous to people's rationality. It's
dangerous in a time like this where people are so
emotionally volatile and fragile, to be promoting ideas that are

(34:06):
dangerous like that. It is not healthy, It is doesn't
help anyone. It is self promotional. And I don't think
shows like Coast to Coast should be should be facilitating that.
I don't.

Speaker 3 (34:21):
Yeah, it's cynical, it's cynical hubris, Actually it is. And
also I've heard this. I mean not that I want
to get into the weeds on the current news cycle
going on in your country, But there is a difference
between freedom of speech, which I'm pretty much an absoluteist
on that, but actually the editorial process is not a

(34:47):
restrictional freedom of speech is to say not interested in
what you're going to say, Like that's freedom too, you know,
Like you know, if I've got a show and I'm
going to and I've got a choice between bringing somebody
on who can really help to steer people's hearts, souls,
minds towards Christ. Or I've got someone that can just
you know, talk crap for an hour. The editorial process says,

(35:11):
I should pick the one that leads people towards Christ,
you know, and so, and there's not enough to so
you talk about a lot discernment when it comes to
not not speech in terms of can I go out
in the streets say what I like? Of course you can.
But when it comes to what we promote, put on
the air, you know, spend our spend our own time consuming,
we really should be more discerning about about you know what.

(35:35):
One is a bit like the difference between personal revelation
and the magisterium.

Speaker 9 (35:40):
What is it?

Speaker 3 (35:40):
What is a good thing for me to just you know,
or I mean maybe not even a good thing for
me to think saying do for my own life, as
opposed to you know what, what what passes muster quality
for actually sharing with other people.

Speaker 1 (35:55):
They're not the same thing, No, they're not. I agree
with what you said about free speech because I think
people have this understanding that free speech means that you know,
that you can that that that that everyone deserves an
equal voice in all platforms, in all forums under all circumstances,

(36:17):
and that's not true. There is there is a certain
I mean, look, the freedom of speech is to generally
protect a person from being able to voice their opinions
and without being prosecuted. It is essentially what it really
is about. But that doesn't mean that, you know, you
can work for a company and say something that's reprehensible

(36:39):
and not suffer consequences because your company doesn't want you
working for them and representing them anymore. You're free to
say it and you're not going to go to jail,
or you shouldn't go to jail.

Speaker 5 (36:48):
For people forgotten that the First Amendment protects you from
the government government, not from your boss.

Speaker 1 (36:53):
Right, So there's there is consequences to free speech that
are natural, you know, and should be there. But society
determines that that government informa telling.

Speaker 5 (37:02):
Bold face lies to cause more division is not free speech.
That's incinerary.

Speaker 3 (37:08):
And also, free speech is not a virtue. It's a
necessary condition that allows for virtuous behavior to be displayed,
but it's not a virtue in and of itself, you know.
And so yeah, okay, I mean, and I think you know, look,
America has the most extreme version of freedom of speech

(37:32):
probably in the world, you know, but the fact that
you have freedom to if somebody is mourning somebody's death
and they write things in a public space, not on
their own property, but on shared property, and somebody else
has the freedom to paint over that. You know, Okay,
you've got the freedom to paint over that. That's but

(37:53):
it's not virtuous behavior, it's not good behavior. And so yes,
you have the freedom from the government. The government can't
come in with jack boots and arrest you for doing it.
But you don't have freedom from me saying you're an asshole,
which is.

Speaker 1 (38:07):
Your free speech. That's your free speech. And if you
were to be if they were to be told that
you can't call that person an asshole, that's a violation
of your free speech in my opinion. You know, it
works both ways, and that's the thing that people that
you know, there are people on both sides, actually both
sides of the political spectrum that that have their own
kind of free speech extreme extremist views. But one one

(38:28):
thing I've seen that is very common to both of
them is that free speech only seems to really apply
to their side. They don't really like it when the
other side uses it too. And you know, the reality
is if you're if you're an advocate for free speech,
then that means that you need to protect the other
person's point of view as much as your own. Yeah,
you have to.

Speaker 3 (38:48):
Agree with that. I mean, but the framers of the
Constitution are all of the freedoms that the framers of
the Constitution enshrined, and they were very wise. And by
the way, the US Constitution all that is basically is
the eighteenth century unwritten Constitution of England written down, you know,
and you replaced the king with the president pretty much
what it is. Thank god you did it, by the way,

(39:09):
because England's abandoned it.

Speaker 5 (39:15):
Right now, hate speech laws are trying to introduce in England.

Speaker 3 (39:21):
Well, we have hate speech lules. In Australia we have
far we have far less protest and descent because we
haven't got enough people to dissent and protest. Here, at
least in England, are people that.

Speaker 1 (39:31):
Are get to decide what's hate speech. I mean, what
are the absolutely.

Speaker 5 (39:37):
People in power?

Speaker 1 (39:38):
That's the problem.

Speaker 3 (39:39):
But those framers, importantly, they weren't libertines. They believed in liberty,
and liberty is yes, you have all of these freedoms
from government control over your life. But it's the freedom
to be. You have those freedoms so that you can
be virtuous, so that you can live a good life.
And a good life does not mean a hedonistic life.

(40:01):
It means a life of goodness. And so, you know,
the ideas are supposed to use this free speech, this
ability to speak about the gospel or whatever your kind
of religious or philosophical background, is to promote the best
ideas to rise to the top. And from what I

(40:22):
can tell, it's being sort of weaponized by people to say, listen,
you know, the only test of freedom of speech is
if I can be my absolute worst self and no
one stops me.

Speaker 9 (40:34):
Right.

Speaker 3 (40:34):
It's like, no, that's not exactly exactly what the intention was. Yes,
the government shouldn't stop you, but doesn't mean that I shouldn't,
like you said, use my free speech or my platform
or might be whatever it is to say, Actually, those
those ideas, those thoughts are really dark and bad and
are going to be bad for you and for your
community and therefore for our nation. And so I'm going

(40:55):
to oppose you with everything I've got.

Speaker 1 (40:57):
You know, that's the.

Speaker 3 (40:58):
Idea of freedom of speech is that is that it
allows the necessary platform for virtues to come out. Unfortunately,
also allows vices to come out as well.

Speaker 1 (41:08):
Well, that's the price of every freedom though. I mean the.

Speaker 5 (41:13):
Voltaire quote I had to look up because Voltaire is
one of my favorite atheists. I disapprove of what you say,
but I will defend to the death your right to
say it.

Speaker 3 (41:24):
I mean, of course, there's there's no proof Volta said that,
but it is attributed to.

Speaker 5 (41:28):
Well, it is attributed to him.

Speaker 1 (41:29):
Yeah, well whoever said it? Somebody said it. Yeah, I mean,
but my view on it is, Look, I mean, you know,
we we we have freedom, and freedom means that you
have to live with the people who do things that
you don't like. If you want to protect your ability

(41:51):
to do whatever you want, you have to protect their
ability to do whatever they want. And the line is
drawn when you start disturbing other people's peace. That's basically
where I think you draw the line. The issue is
is that that can sometimes be variable.

Speaker 3 (42:04):
And but if you disturb your own piece, like if
if my piece is disturbed because I'm upset by something
you've said, You're not threatened to kill me. You're not
trying to do any harm to me. But but you
say something there, but it has a fact that this
is the origin of kind of hate speech enthusiasts. Yeah,
you know, but you have disturbed my piece. No, you've
disturbed your own piece.

Speaker 1 (42:24):
Well, that's where it gets It gets difficult because because
the issue is and it has to come back to,
where does the control life. For example, Okay, if if
you've got a neighbor, you know, we have the freedom
to buy sound systems that have these ridiculous potentials to
create noise. Right, you can. You could have a concert

(42:46):
in your house if you wanted to. But if you
live in an apartment or even in a neighborhood with
that where the houses are close together, that could be
a problem for other people. And even though you technically
have the freedom to blast music, you don't have the
freedo to disturb their peace in the process. But that's
you're taking their control away from them. They don't want

(43:08):
to hear your music. You do, but they don't. And
so what makes you what gives you the right to
decide if they want it quiet? That no, because your
freedom says you want noise that they have to live
with it. That's where the law has to get involved.
So then you have noise ordinances and various other things and.

Speaker 3 (43:28):
Which are not which are not federal. I mean in
your system, all those protections are protections from the federal
usually no protections from your state government or your or
your local government. They have their own constitution, I.

Speaker 1 (43:40):
Mean, right down to the communions at the county level typically, and.

Speaker 3 (43:44):
In an apartment complex, normally, when you've signed your contract
to buy or they even have it, you've consented. There's
not a law, there's a low, there's a by law.
I suppose that you're consenting to abide by. All those
things are fine. You know, it would just be wrong
for Congress to pass a law that talks about noise
restrictions in your particular building.

Speaker 1 (44:06):
You know that, Yeah, you can't have that. But I
mean the fact is, though that to your to what
you were talking about, the difference between like, let's saying,
you know, saying something that one person might view as
hate speech, and you're saying you're disturbing my piece. Well,
that's your choice, though, that's not I mean, you can
you can choose to to walk away. I mean, it's

(44:27):
not like the person lives in you know, it's got
a blasting hate speech over a over a megaphone right
outside your door, and you're having to listen to that.
That would be a violation. But I mean, if you're
if you're in a public forum and someone says something
you don't like, that's not disturbing your piece because you
have the choice to walk away and shut the thing
off or get out of there whatever it.

Speaker 3 (44:46):
Is, and but well, or muster your own response to things.

Speaker 1 (44:51):
Yeah, I mean that is yeah, so you know, it's
it's it's again common sense is not all that common.
But I would think that this is common sense. Apparently
it's not, so that becomes the issue. All right, what's
our next question?

Speaker 7 (45:04):
So next question comes from April. What happened to Joseph
after Jesus grew up? You continue to hear about Mother Mary,
but I don't recall hearing.

Speaker 3 (45:13):
About Joseph's not much about him.

Speaker 1 (45:14):
The tradition basically of the church basically says that he
died of natural causes, you know, probably even before Jesus'
ministry started, So sometime probably during the missing years of Jesus,
sometime between his childhood and his young adulthood or teen
years some probably somewhere in there. And you know, it's

(45:37):
also a pretty much believed and pretty much accepted in
biblical by biblical historians theologians, that kind of thing, that
he was of advanced age. Anyway, back in those days,
it was more common for older people, older men to
marry younger females. We didn't have this same stigmas that

(46:02):
we have today. Back then, it wasn't quite the same
kind of thing. And you know, people didn't live quite
as long or have the same expectation of health.

Speaker 5 (46:11):
So life was shorter and harder.

Speaker 1 (46:13):
Yeah, so you get started on life a lot sooner,
and so this was considered normal. We might not like
it today, but it was normal back then. So it's
most likely that Joseph just you know, passed away of
a normal advanced years sometime before Jesus started his public ministry. Father,

(46:39):
Can you think of anything else to add to that?
I think that's pretty much no.

Speaker 3 (46:43):
That is certainly what the church teaches by convention and tradition,
and I think it's be able to add. The reason
I believe these things, just like I believe that Jesus
didn't have many brothers and sisters, is because there's actually
no reason to make it up. Yeah, But like so
when you when you're you know, a good historical technique

(47:06):
is to say, well, what would be the motivation in this,
in this being make believe you know or invented, there's
no real reason to invent that about Joseph, you know.
So I think it's I think it's likely true. I
think it also fits in with the customs of Jewish
thought at that time.

Speaker 1 (47:26):
I think when Jesus, when Jesus kind of the Cross
instructs John too to take care of his mother, I
think that's pretty much a good strong indicator that she
was alone and he was the only one that could
look out for her. I mean, I don't know about
the cousins because I mean typically when the when the
scripture refers to the brothers of Jesus there, they're usually

(47:49):
either some people think it's the it's it's it's Joseph's
sons from another marriage. Some people think that, Others say
it's cousins because back in those days it was more
common to refer to as cousins as brothers in a
more generic sense. You know, I personally, I don't think

(48:11):
these things really matter. They don't change anything. Theologically. I
guess it's interesting to think about from a historical point
of view, but if it's not a matter of faith,
that's for sure.

Speaker 3 (48:22):
But you know, however, I also think that I think
it's a bit so I'm going to reveal my preferences here,
but I think I think the quest for the Historical Jesus.
This is for those who don't know, this is this
is an academic category, you know, the sort of moving
on from the you know, the sort of pre modern

(48:46):
approach to the scriptures, which ironically we're now getting back to. Yeah,
it turns out even evangelicals are realizing that knowing something
about the church and the context of how these things
have been passed on that actually is important. But anyway,
so called quest and I think there were two in
academic categories. The quest for Historical Jesus. Although it's kind

(49:06):
of interesting and leads to some interesting thoughts, it's.

Speaker 1 (49:10):
Not for me.

Speaker 3 (49:11):
I think it's a bit of a folly. I don't
think we can go back to first century Judea in
any reasonable way and understand the cultural milieu. I just
don't think so. So, so the Question for Historical Jesus
is less important to me. I mean it might be
because I have a very strong faith that Jesus is

(49:31):
God incarnate who rose from the dead, so it's less
important to me this sort of, you know, materialist approach
to who was? You know, who can we say Jesus was?
What can we say that de mythologizes? To use Boltman's phrase,
I actually think that's a mistake. I'm glad people have
the freedom to do it. I just think that we've

(49:52):
let it. It's petered out, so I'm less bothered about
those things, to be honest. But that's just me.

Speaker 1 (49:58):
Okay, what's our next one?

Speaker 7 (50:01):
So throw it comes from Abel? Would it be a
sin if I purchased an energized object with the intention
of acquiring more wealth?

Speaker 1 (50:11):
Okay? Well, that depends entirely upon what you decide to
do with it. Okay, assuming it even works in the
first place. Yeah, what do you mean by wealth? And
what you know? Assuming you are able to perform a
metaphysical ritual of some kind to increase your wealth, what

(50:31):
do you do with it? What is your intention behind it?
And you can't just give a blanket answer that sounds good.
You have to really discern your own heart in this matter.
Because chances are if you're seeking that kind of application.
Not in all cases, of course, I'm not going to

(50:51):
be that generalized here, but if you're seeking that kind
of solution to a problem, then chances are you're a
little out of touch with yourself. At the same time,
I'm going to stand by my more universal answer to this, though,
is that why do you feel that you need to
perform a ritual or to obtain some kind of metaphysical

(51:15):
substance that increases your wealth? You know, when the needs
that you have are best answered by going to prayer
and determining what you can best do within the context
of your relationship to God to improve the circumstances that

(51:35):
are causing these deficits. Now, that is not to say
that you go to God and be like, I'm broke,
send me money. That's not how it works. Okay, God
does not write checks, and you know money doesn't have
any intrinsic value to God. So the idea of these
some of these prosperity pastors that teach that God wants
you to be wealthy is nonsense because God doesn't have

(51:59):
any relationship to these human concepts that we create, and
whether we like it or not. Wealth itself is a
human construct. What is not a human construct, though, are
the resources of creation. As I said at my last
sermon on Saturday, you know what Christians need to remember
foremost in their mind is that everything in creation is

(52:23):
here to aid our path towards salvation. They are not
to be squandered for personal gain or personal pleasures. Now
that's not to say that you can't enjoy them. As
long as your priorities are set right and your obligations
are being met, then absolutely you are encouraged by God

(52:43):
to enjoy your life here. Otherwise he doesn't want you
to be miserable. But at the same time, he doesn't
want you to, at the exclusion of everything that's important,
be pursuing wealth for personal needs. And so again the
answer to the question from a moral point of view,
because I'm not asking where they should do it, They're
asking if it's a sin to do it. The sin
is not whether you do it or not. The sin

(53:05):
is why, why are you pursuing this? What is your
intention and what are you trying to get out of this?
If it's for if it's gain, for gain's sake, even
if you have you write in some noble reasons in
there and say, well, I want to make a better
life for my family. Well, that's a noble reason. I
want to take care of my kids and set up
a college fund. Okay, that's a noble reason. But the
fact of the matter is if the goal here is

(53:28):
not to improve the quality of your life so that
you can attain salvation and help everyone in your life
to do so as well, then you're falling short of
the whole reason that any of these resources exist in
the first place. They're not here to make you happy.
They're here to make salvation possible. The only reason why

(53:49):
you're able to take the next breath into your lungs
is because God is giving you an opportunity to find him.
That's it. It doesn't go any further than that. So
when you start aren't looking at saying like, oh, I
wish I had more money and I'm going to go
do some witchcraft to make more money, Well, you've got
to find out, well, why why is that deficit even

(54:10):
there in the first place, and why haven't you gone
to God?

Speaker 3 (54:14):
It is it's the antithesis of the Christian life. I mean,
I love Ben Shapiro refers to that approach to God
as you know, God as the giant gunball machine in
the sky. Yes, let me put my penny in the slot.

Speaker 1 (54:29):
I think.

Speaker 3 (54:30):
I think the only real, the only true request to
make of God, well, the truest I can think of
in this moment is that is Lord Jesus Christ, son
of the Living God, have mercy on me a sinner.
You know that that should if that's your request, or
if that's the genre of requests that you have for God,

(54:51):
that is in fact the correct approach to asking God
for things. Yes, as soon as it turns turns to
a material benefit for you, your askew. And of course
I would say wealth, true wealth is in fact relationship
with Christ Jesus, which is why you know Saint paul

(55:13):
In Chain says, I'm free, and you know we could
we could also say, yes, primarily having children, but not
just having children, being involved in co creation with God.
That could be through fine artsery, music, through or look,
I mean, the list of creative things is literally endless.
That you know that that's true wealth and that has

(55:37):
no relationship to your bank account.

Speaker 1 (55:40):
Well said, I've noticing some people talking about there being
lag or is everyone experiencing lag or is it just
a few people. I'm just because I'm not seeing any
problems on my end right now. We had that one
thing at eight there was one lag at eight oh nine.
There's been nothing but a healthy stream since, so I'm

(56:02):
just starting to wonder if there's just like really bad
internet tonight for people.

Speaker 5 (56:06):
I hope it's not the rapture.

Speaker 1 (56:12):
Yeah, okay, I don't think it's my connection. But then again,
like I said, this network adapter has been working a
little funny, and I don't I'm gonna have to maybe
run some tests with it. It could be that, but
I'm not seeing though it. Usually it would tell me
on my screen that there's a problem here, so it
could be just just normal Internet stuff on your end

(56:34):
as well. But as long as we're still here, we're good. Okay, Well,
I guess we have time. You had a bonus question here.
I think we can probably answer one more before the
top of the houran, Yeah, so.

Speaker 7 (56:46):
It should be kind of a quick ish one. When
it comes to the ambiguity of Revelation, Chapter twelve, verse nine,
what is the serpent of old I see many people
use that to conclude that the eat in serve and
was sayan, by understanding the Jewish perspective in which the
d and serpent was not, sayan, would the verse be

(57:07):
referring to Lebiathan.

Speaker 1 (57:09):
Yes, I would say it's absolutely referring to Leviathan. And
I think the important thing to keep in mind when
you're looking at these archetypal symbols from scripture that span
literally like thirty five thirty five hundred four thousand years
of thought, maybe even beyond even recorded thought, to the
point that you're adopting some even more ancient traditions into

(57:32):
the writings, You're going to get these symbols that represent
various things that now in the apocalyptic age, which is
really what we live in now. It started in Jesus'
time and it has continued on and and and has
evolved through various iterations. The Middle Ages definitely had their

(57:54):
own version of this, and we're now living in a
similar time again. You know, as we were talking about
with end times and evangelical Christianity and people thinking the
rapture is going to happen tonight. You know, this is apocalypticism.
It's not always healthy. You know, there is the there
there's the healthy kind. Because remember an apocalypse is not

(58:17):
necessarily the end of the world as we tend to
think of it. It is actually the correction of the world,
and it is through revelation. It means revelation.

Speaker 3 (58:29):
The Book of Revelation is also the book of the
Apocalypse on Greek.

Speaker 1 (58:33):
Yeah, it means. It means the revelation of God. And
what is that that we are going to be perfected
and returned to Him. It's not about into the world
suffering destruction, you know, That's what people.

Speaker 3 (58:47):
Could I exhort people not to begin their scripture readings
with the Book of Revelation. Can I just say that
once you have exhausted your knowledge of the Gospel of Mark,
that's the shortest gospel. Once you've exhausted all there is

(59:07):
to read about the Gospel of Mark, then start on
the Book of Revelation. By the way, you'll never start
on the Book of Revelation, but it's much more important
to to to understand the Gospels. The Book of I'm
not I'm clearly not saying it's forbidden don't read it.
I'm just saying that if you want to mislead yourself
in the Christian faith, the best workplace to start is

(59:28):
the Book of Revelation.

Speaker 1 (59:29):
There's another thing that I would like to share with everybody,
because this might surprise some of you. You have no
idea just how close it came to the Book of Revelation,
not even being considered ken this close, all right, it
was had more chance, actually was much higher. And it's

(59:52):
a better text too. It's a better text. And there's
you know, there are theologians that said, I wish that
we hadn't been included because it just creates so much
confusion that is unnecessary. They only included it, And this
is one of the theories I've heard. It's the one
I liked the most. So this is the one I'm
going to share with you. It was only ultimately decided
to put it in because it wraps up it wraps

(01:00:16):
up the the the the idea of scripture going from
beginning to end. So you have Genesis that takes us
to the start of time and Revelation kind of that
really wraps it up nicely with the end of time.
So it was a nice bookend to include. But as

(01:00:37):
far as the early Christians thinking that this was like
some profound early work that has to be in there,
because this is where the mystery is is just not true.
The Gospels were what was important to everybody, That's what
mattered to everybody, and ultimately, you know, that's the only
reason why it was put in was just because it

(01:00:58):
kind of wrapped everything up nicely. Okay, so we're gonna
take our first break here. Okay, Well we come back.
We will start taking your questions, your calls. If you're
on the line, do not hang up because you'll lose
your place and we'll see you in just a few moments.
Don't go away.

Speaker 2 (01:02:16):
People, stable people people people hedddddddddddddddd head head hed heddddddddddddd.

Speaker 10 (01:03:19):
Don't try this yourself, DADDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD.

Speaker 2 (01:04:20):
Is the DIGI top.

Speaker 9 (01:04:47):
To to to the P.

Speaker 4 (01:05:33):
Dip dip dip dip dip dip dip dip dip dip
dip dip dip dip.

Speaker 2 (01:05:46):
Dip dip dip dip dip to get Tokay, no, no.

Speaker 9 (01:05:59):
No.

Speaker 11 (01:06:22):
More dip dip dip di do can't dip dip dip

(01:07:12):
dip dip dip dip do can't dip dip dip dip
dip dip dip dip do can't dip dip dip dip
dip dip dip dif do.

Speaker 1 (01:07:31):
Can't way, Okay, welcome back everyone to Vestiges after Dark,

(01:08:55):
our brand new season and our brand new show tonight.
We're going to start taking your questions now and your calls.
If you have a question, you can call to the
show at two O seven five four four nineteen eighty three.
That's two oh seven five four four nineteen eighty three.
I see that there are two people currently on hold,
so don't hang up. We will get you. And of course,

(01:09:15):
if you have questions, you can start asking them now
in the chat rooms across the internet. I don't think
we're streaming tonight on Instagram. For some reason, it didn't
go through, and I didn't want to stop it because
if we don't get much people from there anyway. But
you know, for those of you on YouTube and Facebook,
moderators are watching both of those feeds, you can ask
your questions, and you can even text that number two

(01:09:37):
of seven five for four nineteen eighty three for the
question if you like. All right, don't go anywhere. We'll
be back in just a moment. Uh, Okay, calling in

(01:10:35):
from the nine to five two area code in Minneapolis. Hello,
you are on the air with Vestiges after Dark.

Speaker 12 (01:10:42):
Bishop.

Speaker 2 (01:10:43):
Hi.

Speaker 12 (01:10:43):
I wish I were in Minneapolis at this moment instead
of South Carolina. Okay, summer has not see Hi. This
is Calico Bins. You can call it bingy. My question
is more along the line. It's not theological. I would say,
it's or dogmatic, I guess, and I realized the Church

(01:11:03):
is non dogmatic. So I want to speak with you guys,
because you have probably a much better under understanding. I
converted to Catholicism Roman Catholicism in college twenty plus years ago.
But I've began to feel, began to think that the
role of the Blessed Virgin is not as a co dentric. Granted,

(01:11:32):
I have a daily devotion to the Rosary, and you know,
everything that I've been taught over the past two decades
and such. What are y'all thoughts on that? And yeah,
that's basically it.

Speaker 1 (01:11:48):
That's a great question. Thank you for that.

Speaker 3 (01:11:50):
Coedenttrics is not is not is not teaching of the
Catholic Church.

Speaker 1 (01:11:56):
Yeah, it's but look, it really comes down to I
think a misunderstanding. It's a semantic issue ultimately, because what
the Church really teaches is that Mary participates in salvation
and redemption in a unique way, but not in a

(01:12:19):
way that is divorced entirely from the rest of our
obligation as well, in the sense that she carried Jesus
through his incarnation manifests through her and her free choice
to accept that. I guess you could say honor and
burden at the same time, right, but she is still

(01:12:42):
in need of even though sinless, still in need of
redemption through the very process that is I guess you
could say retroactive by virtue of the Cross itself. That
the grace that she is full of still ultimately comes
from that same cross that we get our redemption from.

(01:13:05):
It just works differently from Mary only because in at
least Catholic Orthodox theology, that Jesus could God could not
incarnate this world through a defiled vessel. It would need
to be something that is perfect in order to bring

(01:13:27):
him into this world perfectly. And so in a sense
that that is kind of what people mean when they
say they're not saying that Mary is helping to redeem
us in the sense that she has the same obligation
or that she has a role that Jesus himself does
not perform. I mean, Jesus does not technically need any

(01:13:50):
help to be able to do what Jesus does. However,
he wants to always work through us. And that's why
Mary is chosen, because that's part of Jesus' entire stick
if you get it. He doesn't want to do it
as in isolation from us. He wants to do it
with us, through us. And Mary is chosen as the

(01:14:12):
primary example because she can be someone that we can
relate to on multiple levels, can be She's the human
that can demonstrate that perfections possible. Most of us go
through life thinking, you know, at least if you're a
person of faith, you're going through life thinking, you know,
I can't help, but sin. I'm going to you know,
I know you go to confession and then I know

(01:14:33):
I'm gonna need it again in a few months because
I'm going to sin again. And Mary shows that that
is not necessarily necessary. You can get through life as
long as you completely yield yourself to the grace of God,
as she herself did. Now that is where the special
nature I guess you could say if Mary is evident

(01:14:54):
that's not present and the rest of us. But she
was chosen not to be an equal to Christ, but
to be the perfect human example of what we could
become on our own. And then Jesus is the perfect

(01:15:14):
example of what we can become with his help. And
together those two realities kind of form something for us
to strive for in terms of salvation. I don't know
if i'm I mean, this is a very complex question
that almost needs more thought than I feeve it.

Speaker 3 (01:15:31):
I think that sounds really good. I think that's a
great explanation of what see. In nineteen ninety six, the
Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith gathered to just
if you're talking about the Roman Gothic Church and what
the Magistrant teaches. It gathered to look at the term
code mtrics as well as the term mediatrix, which the
Church does affirm because she's a mediatred of the graces

(01:15:55):
of God. But it even though it said codemprics, as
Bishop Brian just explained, it is a pious devotion. They
they said that the terms should not be in a
sense legislated because it because it can cause confusion, because

(01:16:16):
it can be confused with the idea that Mary is
equal to Christ and is somehow you know, this is
a partnership that's involved in our redemption. So that so
which the Church does not teach or believe. And I think, look,
I mean, it's great that you asked that question because
it highlights and and this is in no way a
criticism of you or any other faithful Catholic. It highlights

(01:16:40):
that Catholic teaching can be quite nuanced, and sometimes the
teachers of Catholic teaching can just can forget that or
maybe don't really understand those nuances very well themselves. And
I include the clergy, and that most clergy don't have
to be theologians, some theologists to be clergy, but you

(01:17:01):
also need some clergy that you know, don't hug and yeah,
so so it takes all sorts and and you know,
the problems come where, you know, where where the feeling
and empathetic type clergy speak like theologians, just just like
you really don't want some autistic Oxbridge theologian coming in

(01:17:25):
being with you and your mom's died, you know, like.

Speaker 1 (01:17:28):
Me that you know what I mean, it's going to
be very father perfect. That's why.

Speaker 3 (01:17:38):
I've been many people when their mom's.

Speaker 9 (01:17:42):
You know.

Speaker 3 (01:17:43):
But again I say this but not to not to
ridicule people, but to display exactly what the Bible teaches
us about.

Speaker 1 (01:17:54):
What St.

Speaker 3 (01:17:54):
Paul emphasizes about, that the Church is a body that
we need. We need brains, and we also need heart,
you know, we need arms and legs and feet, and
we can't all be all of them, but together we
muddle through. So I yes, a brilliant question. Opening got
the sort of you know, the the utter dependence that
we have on God's revelation through the church, and that

(01:18:18):
the Church, just like Jacob who wrestled with the angel,
you know, Israel, we're still in that process of wrestling.
And so your question is really good at hire.

Speaker 1 (01:18:29):
That's a good one. And if I could leave you
with this also as a thought, remember we're all participants
in each other's salvation as well. In that sense, we're
all kind of co redeemers because it's not just Christ's
coming to die for our sins, although ultimately that's the
foundation to all of it can't happen without that. However,

(01:18:51):
he did so in such a way for us to
do it through each other as well. So when you
have a person that maybe the only thing they can
do is pray for you know, pray for the church.
Maybe the only thing they can do is donate money
to the church. Maybe the only thing they can do
is spend their time, you know, ministering to their family,

(01:19:15):
or maybe they have higher vocations of becoming a priest
and a pastor. These are all redemptive acts. It's all,
of course, being done through the cross. Mary is no different.
Everything she did to participate in creation is also done
through the cross. It's just there was a particular special
way that it happened with her, only because her grace

(01:19:39):
needed to be the grace of the Cross needed to
be retroactively applied to make her a vessel that was
worthy of the Savior coming into this world. And that's
really the only difference that you could say is special.
And even Orthodoxy has its own way of explaining that
that is different than the Catholic Church does. But it's
a great question, and there I guess ultimately your question Kaliko,

(01:20:05):
was to sort of get reassurance as to whether or
not you're it's problematic for you to to not feel
this way. I think you're actually your your instincts were
right you shouldn't feel that she's an equal redeemer anymore
than we're equal redeemers. We're all redeemers, though, but under
the cross. And I think that's what you're believing in,
and that's perfectly the way you should and that's what

(01:20:27):
the church teaches as well. But correct me if I'm wrong.

Speaker 12 (01:20:31):
No, no, no, no, I think you're kind of correct
my assertions.

Speaker 1 (01:20:35):
Great.

Speaker 12 (01:20:36):
I really appreciate your time, and thank.

Speaker 1 (01:20:38):
You, gentlemen, Thank you. I appreciate your calling you. Yeah,
that's a good one. That was a good question. And
and that's the kind of thing I think that helps
us to to really or helps everybody on this show
and listens to this show.

Speaker 5 (01:20:52):
Tough questions.

Speaker 1 (01:20:53):
Yeah, absolut absolutely, Yeah, Yeah, we all learned something.

Speaker 9 (01:20:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:20:57):
I mean, you know, that's the that's the beauty of it,
I think, is that there's so much that can be learning.
As Father Chris said, there's nuance to Catholic theology that
you almost have to be a scholar to really fully
understand and comprehend. That even the best priests out there
might not get all of it. I mean I don't,

(01:21:19):
I mean I try.

Speaker 3 (01:21:20):
Also, I've found that a lot of you know, Sincere
Protestants who who you know? Yeah, Sincere people who are Protestants.
Actually no, Catholic teaching far better than most Catholics sometimes
because actually that they're seeking to understand without any of

(01:21:41):
the you know, background noise. Without you know, it's very
hard for us to see what's all around us, you know. So,
so I find that that they often reveal things that
helped me to teach Catholics.

Speaker 1 (01:21:56):
I find the best way to maintain your educational shows
is to continuously teach, you know, because students always have
questions that get you thinking about the material in ways
that you would not naturally think of as a person
who knows it. And when it becomes something that is
so second nature, you kind of take it for granted.

(01:22:17):
I think after a while, I think anybody who's an
expert in something does, I think you eventually get becomes
so second nature that you just don't think about it.
So sometimes that means that you're losing those nuances, and
you're losing your ability to to share those nuances in
a way that's effective. And I like shows like this.

(01:22:38):
It's my favorite show too, Open Lines, even though I
love having different guests on and hearing different points of view.
My favorite thing to do is to just listen to
our audience and see what that's on their mind and
kind of help them to work through some of their thoughts.
And here's a prime example. Okay, so now calling in
from the four six' nine area, code and this is A,

(01:22:58):
Dallas texas NUM i Think, Dallas. Texas, anyway you are
on the air With vestiges after Dark yallo four six NINE. E, There, hello.

Speaker 3 (01:23:14):
Mister brian And.

Speaker 13 (01:23:15):
Dami i'm REALLY i enjoy you guys a lot on the,
show AND i watched you guys On Ghost, adventures and
you guys are really amazing when it comes to dealing
with these demonic positions and. Attacks and Recently i've actually
been getting into a the classic teaching of exorcism and

(01:23:37):
the history of. It and this is my first time
asking an exorcist any. Questions SO i was just really
curious before you became an exorcist or during your, training
uh for becoming an Exis, uh what were your expectations
towards uh? Training and having me worried, about you, know

(01:23:57):
spiritual attacks and being ritually strung to face some monic.
Possessions that's a.

Speaker 1 (01:24:03):
Great that's a great. QUESTION i thank you for asking, that, because,
yeah that's that that can get us into some interesting arenas. Tonight,
ESSENTIALLY i would say THAT i did not have any
expectation to do. THIS i mentored under a, pastor A Roman,

(01:24:25):
catholic went back WHEN i was A Roman catholic seminary
BEFORE i became an Independent. Catholic that it was his
opinion that dealing with what The church labels the demonic
is an inevitability in the work of a, pastor and
that it would be irresponsible for anybody to take on

(01:24:45):
the role of priesthood without at least having a firm
grasp on what this, is how to recognize, it and
then how to deal with. It his approach was a
bit avant garde for most. People he did not believe
in the devil in the traditional. Way it took me
a long time to fully understand his views on, this
and eventually WHEN i realized that what he was sharing

(01:25:06):
with me was very much how The jewish people thought
of evil and sort of resonated with me and became
part of how it shaped my life going. Forward so
because of that mentorship and because he sort of prepared
me for pastoral ministry with the understanding that this is
SOMETHING i could, face and this is how you deal with.

(01:25:26):
IT i was never really worried about it because that
mentorship also included all of the protections and understandings that
come with knowing how to approach evil with the understanding
that it has no power over, us none at, all
unless we give it freely or are manipulated into. It

(01:25:51):
but the fact is there is no power. There there's
nothing that it can do to us as long as
we understand that we're pretty much automatically acted by virtue
of The, cross you, know and so as long as
that's our, allegiance there's really nothing that can. Happen SO
i was never really concerned about attachments or problematic. Things
WHAT i was concerned, about, though is being inundated with.

(01:26:13):
That and that's exactly what ended up, happening IS i
became inundated with this where you, KNOW i got into
priesthood to marry couples who were in, love baptize their.
Kids you, KNOW i did not get into this to
go to people's houses and locate malevolent forces and remove.
THEM i did not expect that that i'd be basically

(01:26:34):
a spiritual. EXTERMINATOR i didn't really saw myself that, way
but that's what kind of happened by virtue of the
fact that The church does not, have at least in this,
area a lot of support or doesn't give a lot
of support in this area for, this and there were
a lot of people that needed this help that didn't

(01:26:56):
have anywhere to, go and they found. Me and because
my mentor, said this is your pastoral. Responsibility so when
you go into, prisuit if you take, ordination this is
what you have to be prepared to. DO i took
that seriously AND i AND i did. IT i was
well trained by, him and not really even realizing just
how good that training was UNTIL i actually had to use.

(01:27:18):
It and so even from the very first case THAT
i ever, took WHICH i believe or not was a possession,
Case my very first case was a genuine POSSESSION i
don't Think i've ever mentioned that. Before it was almost
as If god was, Saying, okay let's see how you.
Do you, know we're gonna give you the Real, Yeah
we're gonna push you. In you, Know god likes to

(01:27:38):
really look. Anything If i've learned anything About. Jesus, okay
he's the kind of guy, that's, like you want to
learn to, swim he just takes you and throws you.
In that's, Right, yeah he just he just you, know
he throws you in at, first and then you get
to figure it. Out and that's kind of how it.
Was SO i had my training AND i had my,
understanding AND i wasn't necessarily feeling LIKE i would have

(01:27:59):
been prepared for this, case BUT i took, it handled,
it AND i resolved, it and it gave me the
confidence to know, that oh my, god that training really did.
Work so, yeah that's kind of how it worked for.
Me and so it just ballooned after that case BECAUSE
i guess word got out that we were doing, this
and more people started coming and before long we had
more cases than we know what to do. With and

(01:28:19):
that's where we're at today now with The Ghost. Adventures,
unfortunately the dark side to that, is even though it's
given me a platform and an ability for people to
kind of see this work and sort of destigmatize it
and give people like you some insight into it because
it's something THAT i think everybody should be aware, of
and unfortunately has also opened us up to a lot

(01:28:40):
of people that are not well, psychologically a lot of
people that are well lingering because they hope that MAYBE
i can get, them you, know a front row seat
to In ZEC's a personal theater at. HOME i don't
know what they're looking, for but, THEY i, mean they
really think they want his. Phone they do a lot

(01:29:03):
of THE a lot of the girls say that that
they need to be married to. Him some of them
think they are married to some of them think they
are married To, yeah and they think THAT i can
maybe connect. THEM i don't. Know but the fact is
we have a lot of time wasting now because we
have so many people coming in to get you, know
for the wrong. Reasons but something Go ahead is also an,

(01:29:29):
Exorcist so why don't you talk about your your experience with.

Speaker 3 (01:29:33):
It, yeah, LOOK i was just gonna, Say i'm not
sure whether It's i'm not SURE i can separate these.
Things but because as you, said exorcists are few on
the ground these, days because The church went through this
sort of hyper rationalist you, know the sort of response
to modernity was to sort of be a bit, EMBARRASSED

(01:29:57):
i think by the idea of spiritual. Warfare so it
could be because of, that BUT i suspect. Not but
my experience of, EXORCISTS i am, ONE i know a.
Few is. THAT i, mean even though you, Know Bishop
brian AND i are temperamentally different in lots of, ways
we are quite. Practical we, are but we are quite practical.

(01:30:19):
People and as much As i'm not talking about being
sort of fearless in some you, know gung home, manner
but every Exist i've, known including, Me i've come to.
FAITH i came to faith as an, adult SO i
absolutely believe. IT i believe The, gospel AND i have
a really pragmatic approach to, THAT i think partly as

(01:30:41):
a result of that and also a bit of a
bloody minded. Nature that's What Bishop brian AND i have in.
COMMON i think most exorcists have this in, common where
you just, go, Well i'm, sorry this is just how it.
Is you, know there is Only, god there is The.
Cross jesus has conquered. You soaptism is. Real the sacraments are.
Real SO i just go through, there and that's what we.

(01:31:04):
Do and and and if you want to start screaming
and wailing around and and and the demon wants dean
wants to put on a. Show it's shut, up we're
getting on with this and you're. Gone AND i just
every Existence i've, known even though they have different personalities
and lots of, ways have that in. Common so AND
i think that's partly. Why But i'm not fear would

(01:31:26):
be THE i have fear for The. Lord fear is
not WHAT i go into an exorcism. Experiencing SOMETIMES i
experience some uneasy if they if there's if there's a
malign spirit in the, place and it's not Like i'm
immune to that to that, Sense BUT i don't go
in there, thinking oh my, god this could this could kill,

(01:31:48):
me this could this could get the better of. Me
not because of, me but because WHO i believe in
in the protections of, baptism of, ordination of the authority
of the church much That christ has given. It and so,
Interestingly i've had to assist priests in The, Anglican, Roman

(01:32:12):
Catholic lutheran, environments many of whom probably or at least
a few of whom would would have been better educated
than me on these sorts of. Issues but they're not
able to do. That that's not their, temperament you. Know
so they have asked for my assistants to do. That

(01:32:32):
so you, KNOW i have in my ministry had to
cleanse churches. Presbyteries, interestingly WHEN i was An, Anglican catholics
would ask me to do.

Speaker 9 (01:32:46):
It SO.

Speaker 3 (01:32:50):
I think there is a sort of temperamental approach that
is part of the vocation to BE i, mean all
priests have to be exercisted in an, emergency but this
difference between that and and being you, know authorized in
the life of the church to to to do, that
and so but, YEAH i correct me If i'm, Wrong Bishop.

(01:33:12):
Brian but but my every Exercist i've ever, known and
there's not that, many So i've known most of, them
it seems to have seem to have that same. ATTITUDE i, think,
actually what what's at the heart of it is very strong.
Faith i'm not saying that's a big myself. Up i'm a.
Worm you, Know i'm aware of my own sin precisely

(01:33:33):
BECAUSE i have strong. Faith so don't misunderstand What i'm.
Saying BUT i have a very very strong. FAITH i
like when people, say do you Believe jesus roar from the.
DEAD i Know jesus roar from the. DEAD i don't believe.

Speaker 1 (01:33:45):
IT i know. It, well that's what faith. Is the
faith is the knowing. Part it's not the believing, part
it's the knowing. Part faith is. Conviction faith is not mere.
Boiling anybody can believe, anything it doesn't make it. True and,
honestly a lot of people just convince themselves to believe.
Things it's easy to believe in, something it's hard to

(01:34:06):
have conviction in. Something and faith is. Conviction faith is
the knowing without having the tangible evidence to support. It
and BUT i would say it's a kind of hyper.
Knowing it's it's it's it's even better than. Knowing, like for,
example my understanding of faith is so is so, pervasive

(01:34:27):
it is so much a conviction that for, me it
is more, tangible more, real more, authentic more true than
any fact that is scientifically. Verifiable in, FACT i find
it's more. Reliable, WELL i, mean look at even Medical
medical science should be the one science that is the most,

(01:34:50):
RELIABLE i would, think because that lives are at stake
with that. One, okay you can theorize about The Big,
bang you can theorize about black holes and relativity and
all this, Stuff but you, know when you when you
start theorizing about, medicine people could die if you get it.
Wrong and it is shocking to me how you can
have a study that comes out one week and in

(01:35:11):
a news source will report that you, know new study
coffee causes, cancer drinking more than two cups a day
will cause, Cancer and then the same damn newspaper a
week later has another study that says that drinking two
cups of coffee helps you fight. Cancer you, know it's,
like how can you have? That And i've seen that

(01:35:33):
this is like a real. THING i actually had it
on the nickel a. NETWORK i think it was years.
Ago it'd be hard to. Find maybe it Was, facebook
it could have been one of those BUT i had
on my social. Media could have Been twitter in, Fact
and and it's like there's no reliability. There it's just
people's spewing facts that they think are. True but with,
faith even though you're not going through scientific methods of,

(01:35:54):
observation you're not using scientific method you're arriving at a
place of knowing that is far, deeper far more, authentic
far more reliable than anything you could observe with your.
Eyes because your eyes. Lie your five cents is. Lie
this entire reality. Lies for all we, know this is
just an artist we've talked about in this. Show maybe

(01:36:15):
this is an artificial existence and you're just programmed to believe.
It and that would mean anything that you observe scientifically
is just part of the, program which means it's a.
Lie so how can you be so sure that anything
that science teaches is? True BUT i can tell you one.
Thing my faith, experience which didn't rely on my five,
senses does not rely on scientific. Method it has given

(01:36:37):
me an insight into the nature of the, cosmos, reality
whatever you want to call, it that has more reliably
given me the answers that there is a profound reality
beyond all of, this that there is no doubt. THERE
i have doubts about whether or not coffee causes cancer or.
NOT i don't know what to, believe BUT i don't
have any doubts about my faith because my faith experience

(01:36:59):
has given me an insight and an answer that is
far more. Reliable and THAT'S i think what faith really,
is and that's what guides me through what you asked
about Your i'm kind of getting off on a tangent
a bit, now but you know your question was about,
exorcisms and that's kind of how we do. It, so,
yeah there's no fear, involved none at. All and, honestly

(01:37:21):
COULD i COULD i even just COULD i could just
add by saying if a person has, fear they shouldn't
do it, right they shouldn't be one.

Speaker 12 (01:37:27):
Right, yeah that's that's really.

Speaker 13 (01:37:28):
True and, yeah AND i AND i thought about this
a lot because it's it's a serious. Job AND i
think one of the most things THAT i admire about
exorcists that do this with the will Of. God and
what's really beautiful is that When jesus actually shares that
power with, us right for, exorcis for, example to pass

(01:37:51):
out demons and to help people who are spiritually possessed
by these demonic. Positions AND i think that's really one
of the most things That i've seen from The bible
and for the exorcis to be able to hold this
type of. Power and it's really amazing because more Because
i've seen you do it with seeing me on the,

(01:38:11):
show and you really have helpful a lot of, people
and that's that's really.

Speaker 1 (01:38:15):
Amazing that's very kind of you to, say AND i,
REALLY i, Mean i'm glad it touched you in that.
Way that's WHY i did. IT i, know people can
say all sorts of things about WHY i was ON.
Tv it wasn't SOMETHING i. Saw it wasn't something THAT i, thought,
oh this is great now and get to be. FAMOUS i,
mean completely the. Opposite it was really the opposite. REACTION
i was actually a bit apprehensive Because i'm, Like i'm

(01:38:36):
not SURE i really want all that. Attention BUT i
felt That god was calling me to, this to this,
work AND i think he wanted there to be sort
of a kind of put me in a place where
pop culture would, notice because this reaches people that otherwise
might not have ever paid. Attention and certainly it's. Happened
there's so many people that have called into the, show

(01:38:56):
sent me emails yeah, yeah, yeah that, said you, know
you brought me back to the. CHURCH i Saw Young
Ghost adventures AND i was so. Moved it brought me
back to the. Church that's, Fantastic AND i, Thought, okay
well that's Why god had me do. It, THEN i.

Speaker 3 (01:39:11):
Guess BUT i, think like a lot of the, time you,
know when we try to discern what is it That
god wants us to, DO i, think you, know often
it's presented to.

Speaker 1 (01:39:24):
US i, MEAN.

Speaker 3 (01:39:26):
I give you an. Example so you, KNOW i was
a parish priest in The south Of, england and you,
Know i'd only just moved back there From. Australia so
it's not like anybody, knew you, KNOW i was involved
in exorcism in a public, way or you, know like
Like Bishop bryan who'd been On telly or anything like.
That BUT i was just in my parish, church, beautiful

(01:39:47):
huge parish, church and a bloke walks in off the
young man walks in off the street and he wants
to talk to. Me, NOW i was also a policeman
BEFORE i was a, priest and this this young man
had just got out of, Jail SO i would have
thought the last person he'd be anticipating speaking to would
be someone who'd been a. Policeman but what just walked

(01:40:08):
into the church and he's, sincere a sincere man and
tormented by and and, SAYS i Think i'm. Possessed now
it might be a sign that you have some kind
of vocation to this ministry if people are literally walking
into your church and, saying you, know LIKE i, say

(01:40:31):
not some crazy, person a sincere person talking to you
and then mentions, this and THEN i, said, well in,
Fact i'm an.

Speaker 7 (01:40:37):
Exorcist but.

Speaker 3 (01:40:40):
Again just to show how normal this all. Is you,
know my first question to him was are you? Baptized?
No so, right, Okay so baptism involves the right of,
exorcism so that's what we. Do so you, know we're
not going to pinion to the floor now and start
reciting The. Latin we're going to just do the normal

(01:41:01):
things that the, church That god has provided to his.
Church and that's that's exactly what. Happened and and so
now in the END i did the baptism privately with,
him with with or the clergy, present but but not
not the public because In, england you, know The church
Of england is is the established, church so everyone could be.
There and WHAT i did was essentially where the right

(01:41:24):
of exorcism is used within the ritual of. Baptism ALTHOUGH
i did that as, NORMAL i then extended that to
the to the you, know the the ritual prayers of
exorcism that are included in The roman. Ritual BUT i
just say this to say how how normal it. Is
it's just like any other vocation That god gives you

(01:41:46):
a sign of the vocation is that people come asking
you for these, things that that's a. Sign it's not
the only. Sign the church also has to recognize that he.

Speaker 1 (01:41:55):
Knew but.

Speaker 3 (01:41:57):
You, KNOW i want to encourage you that for understan annimal.
REASONS i, mean the sorts of exorcisms That Bishop brian
And janie you've been involved in are you, know dramatic
because somebody else has gone in to do something completely
different and then something you, know it's like a it's
like an emergency, call right come in and it's. Dramatic
but the vast majority of Exorcisms i've been involved in

(01:42:20):
have been you, know either The Holy spirit has placed
it on someone's heart to walk into my church from
the street or to phone me, up or they've they've
got some they've had a baby they want, baptizing and
then you find, out you know that you build a
relationship and there's some dark stuff going on their. House
this is the normal stuff of. Life and So i'm

(01:42:42):
probably more fearful of doing weddings than i am of doing.
Exorcisms oh, yeah Because bryan's mothers are more of a
pain than.

Speaker 1 (01:42:53):
Wrong and the other thing is is that you, know
sometimes when you when you're when you're being all in
to a an, exorcism you, know usually it's because somebody
there wants, help you, Know but when you're doing, weddings
it's like they. Did you're just a fixture there for
their perfect, day and they don't see you as an.

(01:43:13):
Authority they see you as as, employment you. Know so
you're you're like you're you're you're you're just one of
the hired help.

Speaker 5 (01:43:20):
Get out of the wedding photographer.

Speaker 1 (01:43:22):
Shot, yeah that's not pleasant at, all you, know and
these days it tends to go that. Way but that's
the best ANSWER i can give you a, QUESTION a great,
question by the.

Speaker 12 (01:43:32):
Way, yeah thank you very.

Speaker 13 (01:43:36):
Much well that's pretty much. It AND i just want
to say That i'm really HAPPY i can meet you
guys and ask you these. Questions AND i hope you
guys have a wonderful night And i'll be.

Speaker 5 (01:43:46):
Walking what was your, name hun did you ever give
us your?

Speaker 3 (01:43:48):
Name my name is?

Speaker 9 (01:43:51):
What?

Speaker 5 (01:43:54):
Jason thank? You thank you for.

Speaker 1 (01:43:55):
Calling, Jason please call in calling again sometimes we'd love
to hear From yeah.

Speaker 13 (01:44:01):
Already all, right thanks so, Much.

Speaker 1 (01:44:03):
Jason, yeah, good good. QUESTION i, mean really, again LIKE
i didn't really think about that process for me because
it was so. Organic like, AGAIN i didn't get into.
This BUT i think sometimes people think you get into
becoming an exorcist because you choose, it like it's, like,
oh that's the JOB i want to. Do you, know
it gets chosen for you whether you like it or.
Not but, honestly it's not one you'd want to. Choose

(01:44:26):
it really has to be That god's calling you to,
it because you really wouldn't want to work to, it
work through it any other. Way, okay so we've got
some more questions here in the. CHAT i see what's
our next one from the?

Speaker 7 (01:44:37):
Chat so the next one comes From. Timothy it was
back earlier in the first. Hour, okay what is the
best modern horror movie of the last quarter?

Speaker 1 (01:44:49):
Century we will fly over the last Quarter, okay twenty five,
years the best horror movie and the last twenty five.
Years so we're talking like we're talking for the last
two and two. THOUSAND i GOT i have to Say Conjuring. One,
yeah it's very. Good, Yeah Conjuring one would be my

(01:45:10):
favorite in the last twenty five. Years, Yes, now if
you're gonna expand it to my whole life, lifetime THEN
i Think Amityville horror is definitely up. There poultergeist is
definitely up. There i'm not a huge fan of like monster,
Films Like friday The thirteenth doesn't really do it for,

(01:45:31):
me you, know Like Cloverfield halloween was, FUN i have
To i've been. MEN i kind of Like, halloween but it's,
campy you, know thirteenth and And FREDDY kruegera those ARE
i like psychological. Kid, yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:45:50):
It's so, campy now.

Speaker 1 (01:45:51):
Horrible and Then. Shining Now shining was. BRILLIANT i Love.

Speaker 5 (01:45:55):
Shining, yeah that's all pre two, thousand.

Speaker 1 (01:45:58):
Two, thousand SO i have to Say. Entering, yeah anybody
disagree with.

Speaker 5 (01:46:03):
That it's genre.

Speaker 7 (01:46:06):
Thinking actually there's one better.

Speaker 1 (01:46:09):
Movie oh you're gonna See The Pope's, exorcists aren't. YOU
i can see. IT i could see it in his.
Eyes it gets this a little, twinkle he gets his
little twinkle in his eye and he has to bring it,
up you. Know the you, know the real tragedy Of
The Pope's exiosist is not the bad. Writing it's the
fact that one of my favorite, actors, yeah was in.

(01:46:31):
It that's the tragedy of. It because there's no BUSINESS i,
mean how do you go From gladiator to that? CRAP
i will never, understand but, hey it's the way it.

Speaker 3 (01:46:41):
Is i've Just i've just used The internet to help
me BECAUSE i WAS i was struggling with year two
thousand and what's you know what SINCE i?

Speaker 1 (01:46:51):
Do you know?

Speaker 3 (01:46:51):
WHAT i really enjoyed The exorcism Of Emily. Rose, yeah
it was, good it was. GOOD i LOVE i Love
constantine very, Different.

Speaker 5 (01:47:03):
OH i did Love constantine And galico just mentioned The.
FARIOUS i wouldn't know if considered that a horror, movie
but that was a very good Psychological. Yeah and what
was the one With Denzel, Washington, oh my gosh where
a demon was?

Speaker 1 (01:47:23):
Jumping, yeah the, yes The Anthony hopkins, one The, right the.

Speaker 5 (01:47:30):
Right oh my. Gosh yeah was that four two. Thousand
that was a good. One and then the one With
Denzel washington where he was chasing after a demon that
kept hopping into. People they'd walk by and touch each
other and going and he never could get. It, Finally,
yeah what was the name of?

Speaker 9 (01:47:46):
That.

Speaker 1 (01:47:48):
Yes two other ONES i would mention Is The ring
And The. GRUDGE i like. Those The ring was, good,
yeah BUT i have to say the top for me was,
conjuring and it probably becau Because James wand really drove
home the old nineteen seventies horror style of movie made
and brought it, back and so it felt like you

(01:48:10):
were watching something from the. Seventies AND i THINK i
really like, that you, know BECAUSE i think that was
our best error for horror really as the. Seventies it really.

Speaker 5 (01:48:18):
Was, yeah, yeah good questions not my, genre but there's
there are a few in there That, yeah that was pretty.

Speaker 1 (01:48:24):
Good all, right what's our next? ONE i just.

Speaker 7 (01:48:29):
For trad, yes so for You bishop as don for
Or i'm, sorry does The unfortunes book On cabalot deserve
its reputation or can it potentially mislead?

Speaker 5 (01:48:41):
Me i'm not familiar with that.

Speaker 1 (01:48:43):
BOOK i don't know IF i know it enough to
be able to give a definitive answer on. IT i would, say,
though that with anything of that, nature you do kind
of have to take it with a grain of. SALT
i wouldn't say to read it with any sense of,
seriousness read it for its intrinsic value of, knowledge for knowledge,

(01:49:08):
sake and and and then you, know discern you, know
we shouldn't be afraid to expand our knowledge, base and
we shouldn't certainly shouldn't be afraid to hear other ideas
or things that might even contradict with our own. VALUES
i think that that's why we say that you know.
Right and this is one of the problems with the
world today is that people think that everything needs to

(01:49:30):
be the way they think it should be instead of
just the way that it, is which means that this world,
is believe it or not big enough for everybody to
have their own, views even ones that you find absolutely.
Reprehensible you. Know that's the beauty of, freedom, though is
that you, know you get to have yours, too and
and we should respect, that we should honor, that we

(01:49:51):
should celebrate. That and that's not even celebrating like diversity
in the in the kind of meme sense and the genera.
Sense i'm not talking about it that. Way i'm talking
about in the sense that we should be just grateful
that we have access to, freedom to be able to
have a planet that is this, diversified that people can
even find so many things to disagree. WITH i, mean

(01:50:14):
that's pretty remarkable and it should be a good. Thing
it's not celebrated, though it's treated as a bad, thing
because everyone wants everyone to think like, them and that's
the worst. Mistake SO i would say, that you, know
in the sense of really understanding any of these, things
is that we need to give ourselves the flexibility to,
learn and this sometimes means exploring things that might challenge our,

(01:50:35):
worldview might challenge what our church, teaches might even challenge
What i've taught. You and the fact is that's, good that's,
okay and hopefully you've reached a level of spiritual maturity
to have the kind of discernment to be able to
make that assessment for yourself as to whether or not
you feel that this might be misleading. Data NOW i,

(01:50:56):
am LIKE i, SAID i take anything From luell and
all these different new age books and new age, stores you,
know new age section of your bookstore Or amazon, whatever
with a grain of. Salt most of it is. Garbage
i'm going to be completely honest with. You it's not that.
Much it doesn't take much to write a book, today
BECAUSE i wrote a book AND i know how hard

(01:51:17):
is to get it. Published and if you don't write
the crap that they want you to, write they're not
going to publish. You they're not looking at who who's
got the most remarkable, ideas who's got some data that
can truly change the. World they're looking at to, say
what's the fastest buck we can make with this? Stuff and,
honestly that means the lower end. Material, okay it really.
Does i'm not one for self, publishing which is WHY

(01:51:40):
i don't. EVER i haven't ever put my book out.
There maybe one Day i'll get around to, it BUT
i can't make any promises BECAUSE i just don't have
time for stuff like.

Speaker 3 (01:51:47):
That BUT i, mean, idea if you write the book
my experiences With zach, begins then they publish.

Speaker 1 (01:51:52):
That they, would they, would But i'd have to throw
in a lot of shit that probably was exaggerated just
to get it to be that next. Level that's the
way it is. Today so in a lot of, ways published,
material which used to be the gold standard for, fact
has now been twisted by for profit interests to become

(01:52:14):
more like. Propaganda so you have to know that anything
you read is going to probably have a component for,
that and you have to have the wisdom to be
able to identify. It if you feel that you're at
risk for being misled by something like, that then don't
bother with. It BUT i don't think you should necessarily

(01:52:35):
undercut yourself and, say well MAYBE i could. Business let's
so MAYBE i shouldn't touch. It you, know have faith
in your own, wisdom have faith in your relationship To
god to guide you, through and you'll see the errors
where they. Are usually they're pretty. Obvious, honestly bad writing
is very easy to see the. HOLES i, mean it really.
Is and there's so much bad writing out there that

(01:52:56):
it won't be too, bad it won't be too, difficult
Yallar the approaches is, different, though so you know what
you can do is sometimes look at, sources read, reviews
see what people say about. It if you get a
lot of hokey doki people being, like, OH i read
this book and it took me to another dimension AND
i channeled this this, this this this master from shangri

(01:53:18):
law and it opened up My and if you hear
reviews like that on this, book then you probably know
the book's bullshit because look at who it's appealing. To,
okay but if if it's something that it gets really
deep Into jewish mysticism from The Middle, ages you, know
references several rabbis of the, time then you might want
to be, like, hey this could be an intriguing, read you.

(01:53:39):
Know so that's kind of the things THAT i do to.
DISCERN i look at what people say ABOUT i look
at the kind of people that are saying ABOUT i
look at how well how well wrote they. Are you,
know do they are they able to convey thoughts in
a way that sounds like this is an intelligent person
sharing a review or is this just a nutcase that's you,
know doesn't know what they're talking, about which means the
author probably doesn't know what they're talking. About that's my

(01:54:01):
approach to. THIS i wouldn't say be afraid of, it
but take it with a grain of, salt so you
read it all and decide for yourself whether or not
you think that there's any wisdom. There usually every book
has a little bit of wisdom and a whole lot of,
bullshit and you got to sift through it all to find. Enough,
yeah a lot of, it yeah. Fluffs putting it, kindly
we could probably take one more question before the next.

(01:54:21):
Break do we have? One?

Speaker 7 (01:54:24):
Yes From? JENNIFER i might have missed one of, before but,
anyways she, asks where does our soul come?

Speaker 1 (01:54:33):
From, oh that's a good. One this might take us
past the break and you're not to come back with.

Speaker 5 (01:54:37):
IT i just told Her, god BECAUSE i know that
your explanation is going to be that's actually.

Speaker 1 (01:54:42):
Answer that's actually the correct answer my. View and this
is a tough one because you, know there's different semantics
involved when you start talking about souls and spirits and
things like. That when you get back into the original
greg psyche and, numa you, know it can mean different
things depending upon the context in which you're using. It
WHEN i talk about the, SOUL i, TRY i, MEAN

(01:55:05):
i don't always do a good job of. This i'm
trying to standardize it now because the question comes up
so much AND i think NOW i have to kind
of pick one and say this is the one we're
going to go forward. With for. Me, now soul is, psyche,
Okay so that's the, ancient original understanding of, it and
that's the WAY i kind of look at it. Now
SO i would say that soul is your, Mind. Okay

(01:55:25):
what you're probably talking, about, though is the numa the.
Spirit and usually we've kind of reversed those AND i
have myself in my, teachings even on this, show and
even on vestiges Of, CHRISTIANITY i might have interchanged. Them
AND i realize now how erroneous that, was because you
really have to have a solid semantics to talk about the.

(01:55:46):
Subject so, understand let's look at it from the agent's
point of. View so from the agent's point of, view
the soul was the. Psyche we get the word psychology from.
This so in their, view the world of the mind
and the world of the, spirit of the spiritual world
were the same, place same. Thing there was no difference
between the. Two in this, context we would say the
corporeal world is the physical of the, body and then

(01:56:08):
the incorporeal world is the world of the spirit and the.
Mind the mind is the, spirit same thing is the
spiritual but the spirit the, numa that which gives the
breath Of, god that gives us, life because the numa
really does actually mean breath or can even be related
to wind us the way. Exactly that is literally the life.

(01:56:33):
Force THAT'S i think what you're probably asking when you
say where does the soul come? From i'm correct me
If i'm, wrong BUT i think that's what you. Mean
so if you're asking where the spirit? Where where the
where the soul comes from the. Psyche, well you're, born
whether it's developed with, you you get this as part
of your overall, creation which includes both your physical and
non physical. Body but if you're talking about what animates,

(01:56:53):
you what gives you the actual sense of, life that
Is god himself residing in. You that's why The church
is always that the body is the temple of The Holy,
spirit because The Holy spirit literally resides within, us and
that is The. Numa now it's a particular part of The,
numa one that's you, know isolated for us for our.
Purposes so we feel like it's, ours we feel like
it belongs to, us but it is not. Us it Is.

(01:57:15):
God and so if a person were, to let's, say
die in a state of rejecting grace and choose, damnation,
okay then the numa returns To god and that's actually
what kills. Them that's where the death. Comes we're going
to talk about this next week in great, details SO
i would encourage you to make sure that you don't

(01:57:39):
miss next week's episode because next week's episode is on
annihilationism and the metaphysics of, hell And i'm going to
explain why even though The church doesn't teach a theology of. Annihilation,
Annihilationism i'm gonna teach you. Why, PERSONALLY i don't think
there's any other way to look at, it and one

(01:58:00):
of the ways is WHAT i just. Described so we're
getting a little preview of, this And i'm going to
kind of go into more detail here in a. Moment
the fact is is that because we cannot. Exist As
Thomas aquinas had made it very clear that if the
presence Of god were to leave an object or a
person or anything for just this, moment that thing would

(01:58:21):
not only cease to, exist but it would be as
if they never existed at. All it'd be as if
there was no. Existence no existence means not just not
existing or like once existing but no longer. Existing it
means being, erased as if you never, were and in,
fact as far as time is, concerned you weren't. Ever

(01:58:41):
so those that are In, hell in my, estimation because
they do no longer possess the, numa fall into that.
Category there is no life within, them which means that
they kind of dissipate into. Nothing now that's not to
say that it's an it's it's an instantaneous lights out. Either.

(01:59:05):
Uh death is a, process and we're going to talk
a lot about what that process, is why there is
absolutely suffering To, hell and why the church's views on
the nature Of hell being this place of fire and
brimstone and suffering is not. Inaccurate it's just the assumption is, that, well.

Speaker 3 (01:59:23):
It could be both and, right it could be described
because the eschatological, yeah the t loss Of, hell, yes
is in fact, destruction it is non. Existence, Yes so you,
know a New heaven and a New, earth not a New.

Speaker 1 (01:59:38):
Hell, Correct and you can't if you if you were,
to If god were to let me leave you with,
this because this is going to be the big thought
from next. Week but If god were next, WEEK i, know,
RIGHT i have the slum much to talk, About so
it's not bad thing to preface. It but If god
were to Allow hell to just kind of continue to
be while he ushers in the New heaven the Newer,

(02:00:00):
earth and guess, what that universe is going to fall
all over again because it will still contain. Imperfection it.
Can't and you're not going to tell me That god's
going to create two different universes because ultimately there's just
creation and not. Creation all, right there's creation and non.
Existence there's no anything. Else you can have a million,
universes but still it's all. Creation so ultimately that is

(02:00:22):
the core. Reality it either exists or it. Doesn't, Okay
so you can't have a condition where imperfection is going
to exist in this perfect, creation because then you're going
to have the seed for the fall all over, again which,
is you, know kind of how it happened in the first,
place that that seed was already planted. There we'll talk
about that next week. Too, okay let's take our. Break

(02:00:43):
if you've got more questions about. This that was a,
short very quick way of, responding But i'll talk more
about it when we come back from the. Break, here
don't go.

Speaker 2 (02:00:51):
Away the battle the boat back.

Speaker 6 (02:02:04):
Captain back.

Speaker 2 (02:02:54):
Stud game would the blood.

Speaker 3 (02:03:27):
The blood?

Speaker 2 (02:03:27):
Game people put.

Speaker 9 (02:03:46):
The susta.

Speaker 6 (02:05:34):
Sisssssssssistants siss siss comission of assisiss listens.

Speaker 2 (02:06:30):
To such resissssssssssss, tensions, pensions pensions and shap fans from, sassssssiquissas, defers, differs,

(02:07:37):
defensisition defensastionsipitions depends the listens to, listen, listens, toss, toss mistststsstaat.

Speaker 5 (02:09:27):
Nothing.

Speaker 1 (02:09:47):
F welcome back everyone to the third and final hour

(02:10:54):
Of vestiges After. DARK i think overall this has been
a good start off to the new. Season you, know
buffering here and. There it's always seems to be a
struggle to get the first one off the. Ground but
we we're doing, Okay, yeah we're doing. Okay taking more
of your questions here from the, chat and you can
also call into the show at two oh seven five

(02:11:16):
four four nineteen eighty. Three that's two o seven five
four four nineteen eighty. Three you can call that number
replaced in the. Queue we'll take you on the, air
or you can even text that number a, question, comment
maybe not a, story call in for a, story, okay,
YEAH i would rather talk to you about. That and,
then of, course you, know whatever you have out there

(02:11:37):
On facebook and, YouTube our moderators are you, know eagleide
and bringing them to our attention so that we can answer. Them,
okay so, far been a great. SHOW i want to
thank everybody for participating in. It, really you guys make
the show when it's open, lines, RIGHT i mean you really.
Do it's about. You so this is a good. One
thank you for, that and this next hour hopefully we

(02:11:59):
just as. Good go go? Ahead is?

Speaker 9 (02:12:41):
That is? That?

Speaker 1 (02:13:23):
Okay so what's our next question on the? Docket oh
we don't have. Microphones let's fix. That, okay here we.
GO i thought it was all too quiet there for a, second,
like what the hell's going? On you guys are never that.

Speaker 7 (02:13:41):
Quiet so we did see one From. April she, asked
how did you all meet and start working? Together like
how Did jamie start working with? You and how did
you Meet Father chris and vice.

Speaker 1 (02:13:54):
Versa, Okay SO i back in the day when we
started getting, cases a lot of cases to work of
a spiritual, NATURE i, Felt, Look i'm a, practical pragmatic
kind of. Person SO i felt there is no reason

(02:14:15):
for The Nicolayan Catholic church to create a brand new.
Program i'm going to check to see if there's already
somebody in the independent movement doing. This and so sure,
enough that's HOW i found The order Of exorcist Under
archbishop Run, file AND i wrote him an email and
told him WHO i was and THAT i feel THAT

(02:14:35):
i had something THAT i could contribute to this. Work
and so we had a little conversation AND i was
brought into The order accepted into the, order and then
shortly after we formed a communion between his Old Catholic
church and The Nicolaian Catholic, church which brought The Nicolaian

(02:14:56):
Catholic church into communion with the entirety of the Old,
catholics WHICH i thought was a nice little benefit to doing,
this not THAT i was doing it for that, reason
BUT i, thought this is, great you, know to be
able to now finally bring The Nikolay church back home
kind of so it's not so isolated from everybody, else
and it's kind of an isolating church in, itself just
by virtue of the fact that you know of how

(02:15:18):
it was established and why it was. Established it was
kind of nice to kind of sort of fix some
of the, schism and that ended up happening that. Way
but one of the requirements of that was to form
a team locally and to begin doing. Investigations SO i
started putting out ads for people who wanted to train

(02:15:38):
under me to help me with this. Work AND i
Believe jamie can probably take it from. Here BUT i
believe she saw this and looked into us like years
before she reached, out and then something just kept calling
her back to. It so you take it from.

Speaker 5 (02:15:54):
Here for my near death experience in twenty, twelve you,
KNOW i wasn't a Practicing. CHRISTIAN i guess you'd SAY
i hadn't been going to. Church BUT i was kind
of having an epiphany after mind your death experience THAT
i was at least trying to find some. Answers so
in twenty, FIFTEEN i started looking up you, know paranormal.

(02:16:19):
Teams it was something THAT i wanted TO i had
always been interested in, anyway ever since the early, nineties
AND i thought with my experience as a, DETECTIVE i
could probably help.

Speaker 1 (02:16:31):
Out AND i wanted a. Cop by the, WAY i
told my team leader at the, TIME i, said you,
know she was handling all the intakes for new you,
know candidates and who are applying to become part of the.
Team AND i, said, LOOK i don't care what it,
takes but if there's a, copper if you know of a,
COPPER i want a cop on this team BECAUSE i

(02:16:54):
wanted somebody that was professionally trained in the art of.
Investigating there is something unique about that that law enforcement
has that no one else in the world. Does you,
know you can be a natural, investigator but that's different
than what a cop has to do because you, know,
look if you're if you're you, know an investigator in

(02:17:15):
terms of investigating a new theory or doing something, scientific
well that's a very singular. Focus but a police officer
has to read people because there's so much deception that
they're going to face and there's so much, risk and
they have to be able to do it with a
cool logical. HEAD i felt that that was an asset

(02:17:36):
to this team because the one problem with the paranormal.
Field AND i don't THINK i need to remind anybody
of this because if you're interested in, it you already
know it attracts a lot of unstable people that are
not necessarily the best people to be associated. With there
are a lot of people involved in this that Are
charlatans and they do not hesitate to reach out to

(02:17:58):
teams like. US i had to get involved with somebody,
big AND i wasn't even big at that, time And
jamie came on BEFORE i was ON, tv so you,
know that was a good thing because at that, time you,
know everybody that was coming in at least they didn't
have that as an. Excuse and but when when WHEN
i found out that there was a cop that. APPLIED
i was, like you need to get her in here right.
Away and that's that kind of how that, happened.

Speaker 9 (02:18:20):
Right.

Speaker 5 (02:18:21):
Yeah, SO i MEAN i was trying to find. Answers,
plus you, know with my, INJURIES i wasn't able to
do my specialized unit duties. Anymore SO i was humping
a desk and this was a way for me to
get out and meet new, people maybe get some answers
to the QUESTIONS i had BECAUSE i had a NEGATIVE.
Nde SO i thought maybe that'd be a good way

(02:18:44):
to maybe help other people and maybe learn from other
people who experienced the same THINGS i. Did SO i
in twenty, FIFTEEN i looked up and found The order
Of exorcist and saw that they.

Speaker 8 (02:18:54):
Had Brain, fart had a, Website, Yeah.

Speaker 5 (02:19:05):
I'd associate website In, Atlanta i'm, sorry and you had,
yeah you Have Atlanta. Division, sorry you, know head. Injury
SO i looked through there and saw that there was
A Demonic investigation team involved in that y'all had you,
know we're involved with The National order Of eactress system
of The Sacred order Of Saint. MICHAEL i, thought, well

(02:19:25):
this is pretty, neat you, know maybe i'll Maybe i'll
look them, up MAYBE i. Won't SO i kind of
just filed that, away AND i think it was like
a year, later In august ish of twenty. SIXTEEN i
revisited BECAUSE i kept having this this nudge to figure
out what was going.

Speaker 2 (02:19:43):
On it was like just this.

Speaker 5 (02:19:46):
NUDGE i can't even describe. It it was, like the
answers you're looking for are right. Here why aren't you doing.
It it's kind of like the one of, those you, know,
poor get off the pot kind of. Moments So i'm like.
Okay SO i filled out the application online and the bishop's,
recruiter i'll, say contacted me and we set up a.

(02:20:06):
Meeting And i've said this, before WHERE i THOUGHT i
was actually going to a Church AND i pulled up
to this house And i'm, like, GREAT i got crappy
directions back, Right and SO i called the recruiter and she's, like,
no you're at the right. Place i'm, like, okay, Okay
i'm coming up the front. Steps so went down the.
Basement we talked for a little, while answered a bunch of.

(02:20:27):
QUESTIONS i asked some. Questions the bishop was able to
give me better answers than about eighteen chaplains.

Speaker 1 (02:20:34):
Could SO.

Speaker 5 (02:20:37):
I, decided you, Know I'll i'll do a couple of
cases with these. Guys was not interested in. CONVERTING i you,
know i'd go to a mass just to experience, it
but it was not it was not my. Plan but
after the first couple of INVESTIGATIONS i went on with,
THEM i was, Like, okay there's something to. This SO

(02:20:58):
i started going two mass reg, early and THEN i
decided after just a few months THAT i wanted to,
convert and SO i Became catholic that Following easter twenty,
seventeen even have my parents come. Down and it was
right AFTER i had back, surgery so, yeah that's. Right,

(02:21:19):
YEAH i had back surgery like a few days, before
so it was a very long. Night but that's basically
how how it all. Started And i've been with them ever.
Since AND i think with the whole exorcist assistant, thing
it happened after you did the first ghost adventures and
you decided you needed somebody to go with.

Speaker 1 (02:21:36):
YOU i found that the first, one you, Know zach,
online called for an. Extorsist he didn't intend to bring
anybody else from my team out, there and so WHEN
i was called to do the first Ghost ADVENTURES i,
did which was extorcism in The. ARIE i didn't know
what they needed from. Me it was was very limited.
Information he just said he needed help with a. Case

(02:21:58):
he wanted an excious is, there you, Know so, like,
OKAY i didn't realize the extent of what would be.
Involved and WHEN i got, THERE i, realized my, god
this is like a full blown. CASE i GUESS i
should have anticipated, that BUT i. Didn't and it's very
cumbersome because Everything Father chris can testify everything the right
of exorcism, requires even the minor rights are really set

(02:22:20):
up for a for a team of two. People there's
there's you, know there's the the. Prayers the prayers are
to go back and forth between prayer's.

Speaker 5 (02:22:30):
Responses you got to put hands.

Speaker 1 (02:22:32):
On, yeah and then and then there's always things that
happen where you need somebody to be able to be.
Free and you get these books that, close you lose
your page and you know it was in their tiny
little print and you, know you know aging. Eyes none
of that, works so you need you need a helping.
Hands SO i was, like, Okay i'm going to get through,
this AND i did get through, this and it was you,
know it was it was a bit, much but we did,

(02:22:54):
it you. Know and then when he called me back
for the second, one which WAS i didn't Think i'd
ever do another. One and now they're telling me that
they want me. Back and then That, ogden they were
like they they wanted to make this a regular. Thing
they told, Me so it's like the at least one,
case you, know they get a case like this at
least once a. Season they'd like to bring me on
when that. Happens What i'd be. WILLING i said, Sure

(02:23:16):
BUT i did say it's, like you, know For, OGDEN
i NEED i need my assistant. There and so, yeah
AND i and and really at that, point, yeah well
at that, Point jamie's aptitude for this work was already
very self. Evident AND i MEAN i had a you,
know we had a lot of good people on the,

(02:23:36):
team BUT i just felt that that that That jamie
was really the best suited to these kinds of emergency,
situations probably because of her. Training you, know you, know
she's already been through a lot of this kind of.
Thing it's just crisis, management it's all it, is, right
spiritual versus physical. Crime it's all the same damn thing

(02:24:00):
in terms of risk and the unpredictability of people and
what you need to prepare. For SO i, Thought i'm
gonna Bring jamie on, this and that's how that, happened
and they kind of it was a little bit of
pushback at. First you, know, well you, KNOW i DON'T
i think it was budgetary, honestly BECAUSE i, mean bringing
another person out there doubles, everything, right doubles the, flight
doubles the the hotel because you, know we're not at

(02:24:24):
least when they do like The parry. Normals you know they're,
married they can share the same. Room it's just two.
Flights but you, know we're, colleagues we're not, family so
you know you need two rooms and everything. Else so
it kind of doubles the costs of. EVERYTHING i think
they were a little resistant to, that but But zach, Said,
okay if you need if you need a, help then

(02:24:45):
then by all, means bring your. Help and that's How
jamie kind of became a part of the show because
every time they call me, out it's, like, No i'm
coming with my. Assistant so you know that that's how that.

Speaker 5 (02:24:54):
Worked but, Yeah algan solidified it for me. TOO i
Think i've mentioned that before to after that. Case and you,
know of course you don't see. EVERYTHING i, mean the
dude stopped. BREATHING i don't think they showed Or i'm
climbing on top of the dude doing a stern.

Speaker 2 (02:25:10):
Rudder they. Don't he's not.

Speaker 5 (02:25:11):
Reacting SO i literally slap him across the face and
he came To Thank.

Speaker 1 (02:25:15):
God they don't really. Show they didn't.

Speaker 5 (02:25:18):
Show the violence where the ship hits the.

Speaker 1 (02:25:21):
Fan, honestly you think what you see.

Speaker 5 (02:25:23):
Is either they didn't that that was we had to
pretty much hold that guy down on the couch and
he was not.

Speaker 1 (02:25:30):
Small you got a little bit of, it but you
didn't get you didn't get the full extent of. IT i, mean,
really they actually cut some of the best parts.

Speaker 9 (02:25:37):
Out.

Speaker 5 (02:25:37):
UNFORTUNATELY i think there is.

Speaker 3 (02:25:39):
Probably faith in them to be, honest because you, know
they've allowed a certain amount of privacy to the people
they're dealing. WITH i don't, KNOW i kind of, yeah
it makes him a bit more credible.

Speaker 1 (02:25:50):
For, ME i think it. DOES i, mean people. PEOPLE
i think that's probably why there's so much, criticism is
that it kind of it kind of throws a wrench
in the plans of people want to, constantly you, know
Refute Zach began's and say that it's all. Fake and
then you, know something like this happens that is, convincing
and they and then they maybe listen to me talk and,

(02:26:12):
say this guy doesn't seem like he's an, actor this
guy doesn't seem like he's, fake and it kind of
really upsets. Them so then they have to like Write
reddit posts about How i'm this horrible person that does
all these horrible.

Speaker 5 (02:26:23):
Things i'm not taking time off of, work which is
money out of my pocket to film something fake and
not get paid for.

Speaker 9 (02:26:29):
IT i.

Speaker 5 (02:26:30):
Know, SO i, mean come, On i'm not.

Speaker 1 (02:26:32):
DUMB i, mean and why AM i, doing you, know
mass every week for my fake church and my fake? Priesthood?
RIGHT i, mean this is just. RIDICULOUSNESS i, mean what
do they. THINK i, mean, honestly who does? That BUT
i MEAN i think when they rationalize, it they, realize
oh my, god this does give it, credibility which makes
them more angry because now it makes them look like
a fool for saying it's all. Fake this is. Nonsense

(02:26:54):
but that's kind of how there's a second part to that, question,
though wasn't.

Speaker 5 (02:26:56):
There h, father Father. Chris how do we meet Father,
Chris Father?

Speaker 3 (02:26:59):
Christ so, well it weren't surprised our audience to know
THAT i don't EXACTLY i wasn't SCOURING tv channels looking
for paranormal, investigations but BUT i do have, Children uh
and so and, uh one of them in particular was

(02:27:21):
interested In i'd seen ghost adventures And i'm, like, yeah,
Yeah i'm not Really i'll be, Honest that's not really
my preoccupation in. Life i'm not bothered about this sort of.
Thing BUT i did SEE i think it was The ogden.
EPISODE i think it Was, ogden AND i, thought, yeah

(02:27:42):
there's you, KNOW i, thought, SO i, thought you, know
your ministry Was it was obviously genuine and and intrigued
me because Obviously i've been involved in that ministry for
a long, time and you, know there are things that
are kind of unhelpful in how in how excess is
was portrayed in the. Media but here was something that was,

(02:28:02):
actually you, know this was just literally. Happening SO i, thought,
Well i'm to be, Honest my main motivation Was i'm
not sure how much support you had from people who, actually.

Speaker 1 (02:28:14):
You, know.

Speaker 3 (02:28:17):
Are involved in this ministry and a part of the.
Church and at that TIME i, was you, know a
Mainstream anglican Sorry episcopalian For american, views although not. REALLY
i was in the ultra trad division of The church Of.
England so, yeah SO i partly reached out just to

(02:28:39):
sort of see if you needed any prayer, support spiritual.
Help BUT i think that was like more than four years,
ago a while.

Speaker 1 (02:28:48):
Ago, yeah it. Was in, FACT i don't even remember
the first, contact.

Speaker 3 (02:28:55):
Honestly NO i came on the show to talk ABOUT
i THINK i called into the. Show that's, RIGHT i
got into the. Show, OKAY i can't remember what that
show was, about BUT i called in and then we
so went from there and you asked me to come
on and be a guest on the show and then
became an Independ. YEAH i came out to see.

Speaker 1 (02:29:19):
You, yeah SO i.

Speaker 3 (02:29:22):
CAN i. Can, WELL i suppose people might, say, well
how your real person either where you can google, Me
i'm fairly, notorious BUT.

Speaker 9 (02:29:32):
I.

Speaker 3 (02:29:32):
CAN i can affirm that The, Bishop brian And jamie
are real people and have a real life in the real.
World and so AND i went out to you just
literally moved. HOUSE i felt. Bad new house like the
same WEEK i.

Speaker 1 (02:29:48):
Arrived literally like just a few. Days we had been
in the new house for maybe about four.

Speaker 3 (02:29:53):
Days he'd actually done. AMAZINGLY i couldn't believe what you
had set.

Speaker 1 (02:29:57):
Up i'm a miracle.

Speaker 5 (02:29:58):
Worker he doesn't like.

Speaker 1 (02:30:00):
CLUTTER i do not like. Clutter, yeah that's.

Speaker 3 (02:30:03):
Good so, yeah and so OBVIOUSLY i kind, of you,
know online the friendship became a real, friendship so you,
Know and as the years pass, ON i THINK i
think spiritual relationships deep and regardless of. Interactions, ACTUALLY i

(02:30:25):
think once you're aware of, Somebody i've used the word
soul just to annoy. You once you're aware of another soul's,
existence you're always aware of, it like you, know notwithstanding
you may be, anathematized but we'll talk about that next.

Speaker 9 (02:30:39):
Week but.

Speaker 3 (02:30:42):
While your soul has not been, Anathematized i'm aware of.
It and so, YEAH i think that's true of all,
things of all People i've encountered in, life WHETHER i
Whether i've liked them or. Not but in the case Of,
Bish brian And jamie and your family as, well.

Speaker 1 (02:31:00):
Do you like them so? Well and of course you, know.

Speaker 3 (02:31:04):
The fact that we're both. Cops, yeah we had a
good shoot together.

Speaker 1 (02:31:10):
And all of. That so we'll have to take another
trip to Either Foe goo To chao or or Maybe
i'll take it To Bistro, nico my favorite, Amazing, Amazing
we'll go To, stroniko my Favorite french restaurant out. Here,
Ah i'll Be it's a really really Good french cuisine,
there and it's done in a really, nice unpretentious, style

(02:31:31):
but without sacrificing any of The parisian greatness of the.
Food it's really.

Speaker 3 (02:31:36):
Wonderful And i'm on standby to go and help you
if you need another.

Speaker 1 (02:31:40):
Exorcist, now, well that can always, happen you. KNOW i mean,
honestly there's times where if we get a really serious,
case you might get called because we'll definitely need additional
help for, it for, sure for no other, reason just
to have the proper, support because you, know we're basically

(02:32:00):
this team is down to three people at this. Point
levis kind of a. Fourth he kind of he films everything,
now but he doesn't get, activated held any pinning.

Speaker 3 (02:32:11):
Down If jamie AND i are that, together.

Speaker 1 (02:32:13):
Yeah well sometimes you know that, happens, right that does.

Speaker 5 (02:32:16):
Happen and, look we'll be we'll be comparing, uh you,
know restraint holds.

Speaker 1 (02:32:24):
Be out. Right, yeah, okay what's our next?

Speaker 7 (02:32:26):
Question SO i believe the next one was For. Jamie
were you shure your will you share your experiences In New?

Speaker 5 (02:32:36):
Orleans the vibe was, weird.

Speaker 1 (02:32:42):
Different from pre Pre. Katrina.

Speaker 5 (02:32:44):
Huh it was definitely different from Pre. Katrina SO i
THINK i mentioned on the network that there was some
weird stuff that, happened like from the get.

Speaker 1 (02:32:54):
Go so.

Speaker 5 (02:32:54):
On we went for a couple of days with my
Friend jen and we stayed at The Royal, inn which
is On Royal. Street it's about six blocks from probably
probably we all love the, accent so if we went

(02:33:19):
for her her. Birthday she was a fan of n
C i S New orleans and so this this bar
below that is called THE R. BAR i believe there's
these three uh bed and, breakfast sweet you can stay
at above it and the face of it was actually
on the. Show so that was, Cool we'll stay there
and it's not in the middle of, everything it's kind
of off the. Way, well it was pretty like when

(02:33:41):
we pulled into town And i'm, like you, know got
my gun in between my, legs going this is, uh
this is not WHAT i, remember but. Okay so we
we get parking in, there AND i tried to get
my hackles down BECAUSE i definitely had the spidy senses.
Going but we checked, in decided to hang out there
for the, night had some drinks out. Front they've got

(02:34:03):
a little a little uh patio area that's right there
on the. Sidewalk, well, obviously any big city in the,
suburbs there's gonna be homeless people walking, around a lot
of a lot of mental illness and homeless folks. There
we're sitting there in mineral. BUSINESS i Think i'm on
my like third sazarak and one dude comes up asks for.

(02:34:25):
MONEY i, said, No i'll give you a, blessing and.
Uh he thanked me and moved. On but there was
another one that we saw several, times and he was
acting like he was, possessed LIKE i was ticking off the.
Checklist AND i, know from being working narcotics for so many,
YEARS i know when someone's on flakka or some other

(02:34:47):
kind of drug like, that but this was there was
something about it that made the hairs hackle up on
my on the back of my, neck and he actually
came right over to, me and he had the darkest.
Eyes he was very, unkept and he had those jerky
movements that we all. Know and uh he was asking

(02:35:08):
for food or money for food or, whatever and, UH
i forget what he, said but it was something that really,
like oh he He we had had some small talk,
whatever AND i told, HIM i, said you, know how
would you like a? BLESSING i can give you a,
blessing you, Know and and he's, LIKE i don't, KNOW
i don't. KNOW i, said, well what's your? Name he,
says my Name's, christian just kind of like my Name's.

(02:35:30):
Christian SO i was, like, oh, okay and. Uh he
looked over At jen and, said happy. Birthday it's, like
how does this dude know it's her. Birthday we ain't
talked to him about her. Birthday we ain't talked to
anybody about her. Birthday SO i looked him dead, ye
and then he gave me kind of that that, smirk
AND i was, like, oh, okay who AM i talking?

(02:35:51):
To and he Goes Saint michael AND i was just,
like uh huh, no we're not and so UH i
GRAB i took him by the, hand AND i, SAID
i said To Saint michael's, prayer and he immediately was
like jerking and pulled back and his eyes rolled up.

Speaker 1 (02:36:12):
And.

Speaker 5 (02:36:12):
Uh he was just like, whoa what was?

Speaker 1 (02:36:14):
That what was?

Speaker 5 (02:36:14):
That and he got loocid for a. Minute and So
jen's looking at me like what in the F And i'm,
like hold what you? Got, well you, know my butt
got holy water with me When i'm going To New.
Orleans SO i run, UP i run up to the,
store run up to the, room come down at the
bottle of holy. Water AND i asked, HIM i, said
CAN i CAN i CAN i hit you with some holy?

(02:36:35):
Water CAN i bless? You he's, LIKE i don't, KNOW
i don't. Know and he, starts you, know getting the
almost like a, growl but not really. Growl and he
kept telling Me I'm. Gabriel you, know he was just
being his actually. Name his name really Was, christian by the,
WAY i found out, Later but he started saying the

(02:36:56):
names of some mark angels. Whatever SO i just kind
of did one of those you, know with the with
the with the holy, water and his eyes rolled in
the back of his head, again and SO i on
my hands AND i grabbed his, hands AND i, Said
i'm gonna pray for, you AND i did The Saint
michael's prayer, Again Hail, mary and he was just he was.

(02:37:16):
Shaking and THEN i DID i don't know WHY i did.
THIS i just kind of, said pop right on his
head AFTER i did The Saint michael's prayer the second,
time and he literally did one of these and he
looked at me like he just woken. Up and he was,
like what was?

Speaker 1 (02:37:33):
That that?

Speaker 5 (02:37:33):
Was that was, weird, Man that was. Weird and SO i,
SAID i tell you. What i'm gonna give you some,
money BUT i want you to go get, food and
if you don't bring it back here and let me
watch you eat, it then you're not gonna get any
more help from. Me so he went and got Some chinese,
food brought it back and he ate it and he was,
hungry and it was just like a different. Person he

(02:37:57):
talked to me. Normal we saw him the next. Night
he was still, homeless but he. Was he was actually
sitting on a curb On Frenchman. Street we went down
there to go to a jazz club and he recognized
me and he, said, oh you, Know god bless. You
you really you're really sweet to. ME i appreciate.

Speaker 1 (02:38:16):
That and so we.

Speaker 5 (02:38:18):
Came we we brought him some leftovers and met up
with him, again and THEN i didn't see him. Again
but that was just the weirdest. One and then there
was another. One they have this hustle where they a,
Guy i'll come up and want to shine your, shoes
and it's a it's a. Hustle and you, Know i'm
telling you they were they were people under oppression Everywhere

(02:38:39):
BISHOP i did not go looking for, it but they
sure found.

Speaker 1 (02:38:42):
Me and this guy, places this guy.

Speaker 5 (02:38:46):
Starts having a conversation with, me AND i knew he
was trying to hustle, me SO i just kind of
blew him off a little bit and you, know, said,
hey you, know you, Know i'll give you a blessing,
too and UH i kind of gave his hand and
he he just kind of looked at me with that
that stare and he didn't, link and UH i said
a blessing for him and told him to be. Careful
and then when he let, go, Goes i'm gonna see you,

(02:39:08):
again AND i, SAID i bet you, will AND i
kept but it was just it was so. Strange and
then we saw this adorable nun in. Pink apparently there's
A catholic church AND i don't remember the name of
it downtown where the nuns wear pink cassocks and. Habits

(02:39:28):
and she was just. Adorable she reminded me from the
nun from that Series. Evil if anybody's seen, it the
none on that. Show that's no. Nonsense BUT i mean
we didn't really do anything. Exciting, yeah it's pretty.

Speaker 9 (02:39:45):
Good you.

Speaker 1 (02:39:47):
KNOW i was told that that show was stolen for.

Speaker 5 (02:39:50):
Me, well the treatments very similar to the first.

Speaker 1 (02:39:55):
SEASON i put a treatment out to the to the various.
NETWORK i, Know, LOOK i can't confirm. This i'm just
telling you WHAT i was, told all, right AM i
gonna even mention who told HE i was? SENT i
was sent the the pre production notes To evil and
with the within the email on the subject line that, Said,

(02:40:17):
bishop they stole your, Treatment AND i guess they got
around it because they made it a work of fiction
instead of actual reality. Show my treatment was for a reality,
show but it was essentially this the very. Dynamic i've
never seen this, show BUT i WAS i, mean this
is this is basically. HEARSAY i can't confirm, it but

(02:40:39):
they said this is this is your, treatment and maybe it,
was you, KNOW i, mean maybe it was just a,
coincidence but apparently it's very much like my. Treatment i'm told.

Speaker 3 (02:40:50):
By the, way your pink nouns are the sisters of
the servants of The Holy.

Speaker 1 (02:40:53):
Spirit.

Speaker 5 (02:40:54):
Yeah we saw her twice walking around and.

Speaker 1 (02:40:57):
Well it's a, mouthful isn't.

Speaker 9 (02:40:58):
It.

Speaker 5 (02:40:58):
YEAH i just thought it was so rare AND i.
PASSED i passed by her at some park and just
gave her a smile and she smiled, back AND i was,
like FINALLY i meet somebody that doesn't have an oppressive
spirit on. Them but we had a pretty good. Time
it was just that the vibe was definitely. Off there

(02:41:19):
was definitely a. Heaviness would you go, Back, yeah BUT
i wouldn't stay there. Again BUT i will say the,
people the, locals the local locals were, very very. Nice
they were very, nice very. Welcoming they told, us you,
know where to go to eat to have Real New orleans,
food not the tourist, stuff because we wanted to go
where the locals. Go AND i did have a BARTENDER

(02:41:42):
i recognized.

Speaker 3 (02:41:43):
Me came comes to the camera From New, orleans you,
know like when The katrina. Stuff, yeah Everything i've ever,
seen and loads of different, genres you, know whether it's
like a fly on the, wool you, know a real
life cop show or some you, know. Documentary can you
FEEL i don't know the sadness that comes.

Speaker 5 (02:42:05):
In it, was and when you're driving in you can
still see buildings that were never. Rebuilt you can still
see some of them actually with the exes and the
Orange exus spray painted on the, thing.

Speaker 1 (02:42:16):
But they're still. There. Yeah, yeah we We we.

Speaker 5 (02:42:19):
Made some friends at the local. Bar one one bartender, Recognized.

Speaker 1 (02:42:25):
Uh, no you didn't go. There, no there's there's a.
BAR i forget. What it's, cold but there's a. Bar
it has a plaque out there That crowley had a.
Drink oh, no, no BUT i think The absence. Bar
is it thee the one across from. It it's been
a while Since i've been.

Speaker 5 (02:42:40):
There we stayed pretty close and it was so stifling.
Hot it was one hundred and seven heat index and
we're out on foot AND i can't walk very long,
anyway and you, know my friend's, diabetic so we we
didn't do too much. Walking but where we did go
it was pretty. Cool but the vibes definitely different from

(02:43:02):
WHEN i was there in two thousand and. Three, yeah
definitely not the. Same, yeah we're weird. Experiences SO i.

Speaker 1 (02:43:08):
Was back WHEN i WHEN i when we moved back
from From Las, vegas we were we were. Transitioning we
came back To georgia and it was supposed to be
a temporary thing to relocate To New. Orleans we're going
to open up a store In New orleans in The French,
quarter and we were in the process of of the

(02:43:30):
early stages of doing just that When katrina hit and
completely obliterated the, place and that was, like, well there's
no point in pursuing. This, FORTUNATELY i guess you could
say it all happened before we got financially invested and
locked into, it but it still was a terrible, tragedy
and so we ended up staying here In, georgia and

(02:43:52):
definitely because of. That that was not the, plan but
that's what. Happened but during the time Between katrina and after,
that and then you, Know katrina. Happened during those. Years
right After, KATRINA i was training to be a, pilot

(02:44:13):
and one of the requirements THAT i had for MY
i think it was it wasn't. COMMERCIAL i think it
was just for the instrument. Rating there's different. Ratings you,
know you get your private pilot license and then you
can get ratings on that instrument lets you Fly Instrument
Flight rules I, fr and then you know commercials for

(02:44:35):
like actually taking passengers and a professional capacity that kind of,
thing and different requirements for each of these. Qualifications so
WHEN i was doing MY ifr training to get the instrument,
rating one of the things you have to do is
these cross. Countries they call them cross. Countries it doesn't
literally mean going from coast to. Coast it just means
so many miles between your start destination to wherever you,

(02:44:58):
pick and you can do the anywhere as long as
it meets the mileage. Requirement and so my flight instructor asked,
me where do you want to, go AND i, said,
well let's go To New. ORLEANS i haven't been there Since.
KATRINA i want to See and this was right After.
Katrina so so we we. Flew you, KNOW i flew
all the way out From petrie de Cab, airport which

(02:45:22):
was my home, airport and YEAH pdk and went all
the way To New. Orleans and this was right After.
Katrina it was a. Wasteland almost everything was, closed just
a few businesses were, open and the only people in
the streets were the. Homeless, unfortunately it was, terrible only gotten. Worse,
yeah it, Has unfortunately it. Has i'm. Sure, Yeah but

(02:45:46):
well there's what's our what's our next? Question we can
probably take a couple more before we close up for the.

Speaker 7 (02:45:52):
Night so there was one question for. Me we've already
answered it in the.

Speaker 1 (02:46:02):
Chat, okay so no more. Question would you want to
answer it on the? Air, yeah, YEAH i can answer
it on the.

Speaker 7 (02:46:09):
Air they, asked have you or your crew ever feared
a location while? INVESTIGATING i GUESS i can give a
little bit of a length her answer for.

Speaker 3 (02:46:22):
Me not.

Speaker 7 (02:46:24):
Necessarily there was one case we, did And april's in
the chat she can chime in because it was a
joint investigation where there was a case we had up
In georgia and believe the woman reached out To. April,
anyways the first day we, went we picked up, like, okay,

(02:46:46):
yeah there's something, here but we don't quite know what.
Yet and during our second investigation we come to conclusion That,
okay so she's dealing with a demonic oppression and we're
not equipped for this BECAUSE i wasn't in the same,

(02:47:08):
room but apparently the woman would speak To april and
like a third person, voice did not want to say
The lord's prayer and was just acting, Bizarrely and so
eventually we had to get Our Native american shaman to help,

(02:47:28):
us and eventually we did get, resolved AND i think
to this day they're still. Fine BUT i, said it's not.
Really you can't necessarily fear doing investigation or helping, people
because if you, fear then you're not being as much

(02:47:50):
of a help as you can to the victims.

Speaker 5 (02:47:52):
Themselves, well your feeding is the, issue to your feed
and the.

Speaker 1 (02:47:55):
Entity, yes, YEAH i say for any of this, work
regardless of of what capacity One war two actually, work
it if you are if you feel any fear at,
all you shouldn't be doing. IT i, mean it's it's
just that. Simple it's not going to be helpful for,
them it's not going to be helpful for. You and,

(02:48:19):
overall it's it's it's really it could be actually a
dangerous situation the the AND i think this is why
the elements of religion are an essential component. Here it's
ironic to me That the people that seem to fear
it the most are the people that claim to Be.
Christians you, know it seems like they're the ones, That,

(02:48:42):
OH i don't want to don't don't talk to me about.
THIS i don't watch, SHOWS i don't want to be.
INVOLVED i don't want hear anything about that. Energy you're A,
christian you should know. Better you should know better than
something to HELP i, know, right that would mean an. Obligation,
Father christians don't like, obbligations you, know but, NO i,

(02:49:05):
mean you're, you're. You're it's good that you don't feel
a fear when you go into, this because you, know
if you really are there, help, well you're not going
to be able to do much if if you're compromised
in any, capacity and fear is the first thing that
will compromise. You it it it destabilizes your position from
the get, go and and it's not going to be

(02:49:30):
a good path forward for. Resolution and not to mention
that people are coming to you for help and nobody.
WANTS i, mean can you imagine if you you you
had a major medical problem and needed, surgery and the
surgeon comes in and he's afraid to work on he's
like shaken and like he's afraid to do. Surgery would
you feel comfortable in that?

Speaker 5 (02:49:51):
Sense and you know what's sad IS i have one
active case right now That i'm going to talk to
the client this. Week but there's been several cases WHERE
i had a priest come, OUT i had a team
come out and the priest was attacked or something happened

(02:50:12):
and the priest left without, finishing AND i can't give
him to come, back And i'm, like are you? Serious
several times it's happened so and that that's that's almost
embarrassing when when your clergy for the church and, uh
you can't stick to your guns and finish a house,

(02:50:32):
blessing because.

Speaker 1 (02:50:35):
That sounds almost like pushed you, know that almost sounds
like a bad script for a terrible horror movie right.
RIGHT i can't imagine this scenario where a priest would do.
That i'm not saying they're, like.

Speaker 5 (02:50:48):
It's been several clients that have said that over the.

Speaker 1 (02:50:51):
Years something that you know each other strange to me about.
That that tells me that either the person that they're
dealing with is really not who they say they, are.

Speaker 5 (02:51:00):
Could be one of Those Internet, look.

Speaker 1 (02:51:04):
The church has its. Problems i'm not gonna Be i'm
the first one to, say, look the church has its.
Problems But i've never known a priest that would that
would run away from us BECAUSE.

Speaker 5 (02:51:15):
I would Because i'd be, like, dude, really where are you?

Speaker 1 (02:51:18):
GOING i mean even the worst PRIESTS i know wouldn't do.
That so, yeah it's just it. Does Like timothy, says
it's like The amiteville, horror the, priests you, know left
because of the. Flies, yeah you, know it sounds like
it's almost like a horror scripted kind of scenario and
not one that's based in. Reality but, Again i've become

(02:51:39):
a Little i'm gonna be honest with, You i've become
a little bit, cynical you.

Speaker 5 (02:51:42):
Know to trust. Me we WE i have to do
all these. Cases and she's the.

Speaker 1 (02:51:47):
BETTER i mean she honestly she.

Speaker 5 (02:51:48):
Handles it's the where it's very very very few and
far between where they actually need. Us, yeah and it's
like try to steer them in the right, direction and
they usually don't like.

Speaker 1 (02:52:03):
That, No, no because again it comes down to expectations
and people tend to want a magic. Solution they don't
really want a faith, solution which is a lot of.
Work faith is a lot of, work you, know because
it's WHY i say you have to cultivate. Grace you,
know it's Not that doesn't mean that you make grace.

(02:52:25):
Happen grace is a free gift and you can't merit.
It that's not what cultivating grace. Means cultivating grace is
engaging in the relationship With god through the faith experience
that leads to the accumulation of grace and the free
flowing access to. It it's something that we have to
choose to. Pursue of, course it's free and as much

(02:52:48):
as it's, available but it's not just thrown away out
the window and you just pick it up and take.
It you have to go find. It you have to
work to get to the place where it's where it's.
There and that's the cultivation. Part and that's the part
that people don't. Want they don't. Want, LOOK i opened
up The Mission. Church we both. Did we opened up

(02:53:10):
The Mission church years. Ago, okay spent a lot of.
Money that is. IRREVOCABLE i mean you, can't you can't
get it. Back it's. Gone we spent a lot of
money on. That The mission at the time was based
upon what our clients were telling us and our you,
know absolute trust in, them you, know we trusted them,
that you, know these are the things they. Needed AND i, said,

(02:53:32):
well here's what we're going to. Do we're going to
go and we're going to just like you see On Ghost,
adventures go in, there you, know stabilize their. Problem and
then the mission church will be the hospital where they get.
Better that's where they're going to come. After you, know
we can be the the the par the paramedics that
come in and, stabilize and we can also be the

(02:53:52):
hospital where they come for the. Cure and this way
we can build a community of people who suffered these
spiritual issues and now have been disenfranchised for one reason
or another from their own churches or. Whatever and here
now they have their home, back their spiritual. Home and
there was no shortage of people that came to get

(02:54:13):
the emergency. Assistance but as soon as they were free
of their, issue or at least what they thought was
stabilized at least, enough we would never see them. Again
as soon as it came down to having to be
a part of an actual church from week to, week
they wanted nothing to do with. It so the investment
was unfortunate because our benefactor at the time really strongly

(02:54:36):
believed that that's what we should have been, doing and
they wanted to make that. Possible so they invested a
lot of money in making that, possible only to find
that it never ended up paying for itself because we
never built the. Community nobody wanted to. Come the only
people that were there week after, week honestly was our.
Team that was. It it never our. Clients as soon

(02:54:58):
as it came down to us, obligation they didn't want.
It so now we take a very different approach because
we've learned our lesson and now we set expectations from
the get. Go you want us to come, out, fine
we'll come, out but here's what's going to be expected of.
You and tell us now if you're not going to
want to do, this because we don't want to come
and waste our, time if you're not going to follow

(02:55:20):
our instruction to the, letter and that's what needs to
happen if you want to get. Well and a lot
of times she never hears something again when that conversation,
happens or maybe he doesn't even get that. Far she
just emails you, know or they even read the. Expectations
i've even put it on the website now so that
it just gets it out. There so we've got countless,

(02:55:42):
cases but most of them are not cases we would ever,
take just because of.

Speaker 5 (02:55:48):
Once you give them, homework, yeah they don't want to
go to the next. STEP i usually never hear from them,
again Or i'll hear from them three months. Later, hey
do you forget about? Me, no not about.

Speaker 1 (02:55:58):
Yourself, yeah and that's what. Happened don't let that be.
You don't let that be any of you out, there,
hopefully you, know if you ever need, us you, know
to take it sincerely and you, know listen to us
and we'll definitely be able to help. You but you
got to, listen all. Right so next, week, okay we're
going to continue on with no, guests just to give
us another another episode where we can kind, of you,

(02:56:21):
know make sure that everything's stable for the season without
inconveniencing a guest by having issues and having to cancel on.
Them but we're going to discuss annihilationism as a theological,
concept the nature of, hell and WHY i have my
own personal. Positions NOW i don't teach annihilationism from the pulpit,
necessarily BUT i do teach it as a logical assumption

(02:56:47):
that can be made about what the church does teach
officially on the subject matter Of. Hell excuse. Me, overall
there's a lot of complexity. Involved chris kind of alluded
to some of. It it can actually be a little
bit of, both AND i think it. Is so that's
gonna be next. Week we're gonna go in extensive. Detail
for the first, Hour i'm just gonna lecture to you

(02:57:09):
about hell and what it all it. Means, okay after
that we can answer more of your, questions and you,
know third hour we can open it up to open
lines again if you'd. Like, okay that's next week At
tuesday at eight Pm. Eastern we'll see you. Then but until,
Then i'll see you out there in the. Ether god bless.

Speaker 5 (02:57:24):
Everybody thanks. Everybody the.

Speaker 3 (02:58:31):
Best conditions.

Speaker 2 (02:58:34):
Is the best.

Speaker 10 (02:58:38):
Is the best is the best is the best is the.

Speaker 9 (02:58:46):
Is theugest is the best is the. Best listen

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