Madame Web | Brilliant But Lazy #20 - Victims and Villains

Episode Transcript
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(00:12):
Everyone, Welcome a brilliant but lazyVictims and Villain's pop culture podcast. I'm
your host Alan and I'm Josh andwe have a special guest with us today.
Yes, joining us from You Haveto Watch This podcast is my co
host over there, Devin Struthers.Devin welcome, Hey, thanks for having
me on. I am so pubbedfor this. Yeah, you had mentioned

(00:34):
on You Have to Watch This thatyou were going to see today's main topic
as well, so I was like, oh, well, misery loves Company,
so let's let's get into it.We feel about this? Yeah,
well, I mean, I meanthe reason I was the only reason I
went to see it was for thispodcast. So I wanted Devin to also

(00:57):
have a reason, an excuse whenpeople ask why did you do this?
I can reason? Ask me whyI was seeing it, and I said,
because Devin's seeing it. So yeah, really, the reason Devon's here
is so we can blame this onhim. Yeah, that's great. Oh,

(01:17):
only be here for the worst movies, It's fine. Yeah. Uh,
before we get into uh today's maintopic, which is the latest Sony
Marvel film, Madam, Well,we're gonna talk about some other Marvel things
that have happened because we are thethe Marvel centric podcast here for victims and
villains. Uh. And there's beensome Marvel news lately starting off like I've

(01:38):
gotten talked to Devin about most ofthis stuff, but I haven't gotten to
talk to Josh about this. Uh. The Deadpool and Wolverine trailer dropped over
the Super Bowl. Josh, whatwere your thoughts on the trailer? Yeah,
well, and they didn't make youwait for it. Like I was
at an uncle's bar to watch thegame and my cousin Thomas was there and

(02:02):
he was like, did you heartheir drop in the Deadpool trailer during the
Super Bowl? And I was like, yeah, I'd heard that. He's
like, I'm just sticking around herefor that, and then like literally like
a minute into the Super Bowl theyplayed it. Uh, and you know,
and then like a minute later.You know, we were tempted to
go out in the parking lot andwatch the whole thing on YouTube because they

(02:22):
didn't show the whole thing. Butit is a great trailer. I was.
I was surprised, happily surprised,pleasantly surprised that it started off with
the TVA makes sense with everything thathappened at the end of Deadpool Too.
But at first I their their uniformsare slightly different, but I was like,

(02:44):
is that them? And then assoon as it was confirmed, I'm
like, all right, I'm herefor this, let's let's go. It
was just enough to tease me,but I'm ready. I was pleasantly surprised
that the TVA was brought up byRoyco so but yeah, I'm excited for
this movie. The trailer was great. They gave us just enough Wolverine for

(03:07):
me, like, we don't wedon't have to see him in the suit
yet, Like we've seen the picturesthat have gone online. I don't need
to see him in the in thetrailer and advertising yet. Devin, what
did you think of the Deadpool Wolverinetrailer? I feel like I'm so we
did Deadpool two on the podcast,and I feel like I'm one of the
few people that like loved Deadpool Toomore than the first one. I understand

(03:29):
that, like the shtick might begetting a little bit old, but I
still love it so, like evenin the second, like the first like
thing that he says to camera wherehe's like, oh, trust me,
I'm not new to pegging, butDisney is I lost it. Like I
actually laughed out loud at that part. I am so pumped for this movie,
like I can't wait. I inthe trailer has only gotten me more

(03:49):
excited because on see the on setlike photos have me excited, and this
kind of put my fears. Ithink it ea is that like Disney would
ruin this or it would be likea little bit Disney, And it almost
doesn't feel like it because I thinkI was scoping the trailer out for like,
are they gonna make this different andworse? Yeah, for this being

(04:10):
the only Marvel film that we're gettingthis year. I think it's they put
all their eggs in the right basket. This is the only one film wise,
Yes, from the from the MCU, Sony's got plans, Yeah,
got more plans. Oh, we'lltalk about it. We'll talk. Oh
no, it starts with a K. Anyway, I I I liked what

(04:36):
we saw. I I've been pissed. Anytime one of my like movie pages
on Facebook has posted an those tonsof leaked pictures from the set, I
get more and more annoyed. I'mlike, come on, nobody here doesn't
want to see this movie. Stoplike just you know, blowing up these
pages with all these pictures. You'regonna ruin it for yourself as much as

(05:00):
everyone else. And uh I youknow, I'm sure they were like,
look the secrets out that the CenturyFox logo is a part of one of
our sets. So they kept thatin the trailer. And they probably could
have you know, done some SpiderMan No Way Home stuff and and digitally
removed it but for the trailer,but they kept that in there. They

(05:24):
didn't show us Logan's face, butyou know, between all of the you
know, the teaser videos that hedid with Hugh Jackman and the leaked photos,
we know he's there. But wegot the Wolverine air tips. Yeah,
and uh and we got the backof his of his uniform and and
uh so that was enough. Theydidn't spoil like, you know, the

(05:47):
Rumorville has been how many cameos aregoing to be a part of this,
and how many potential Ox superheroes aregonna be in this. I'm so excited.
But we got one which was Pyro. Yeah and uh oh yeah.
At first when I saw him,I was like, wait, is that
Daniel Radcliffe as like a different versionof Wolverine just like with some facial makeup,

(06:12):
and then I re round it andno, it's Pyro from X Men
two and three, and that waskind of cool seeing him. It's funny
that you bring up Daniel Radcliffe becausethere is a shot of Logan playing poker
in like the white jacket from behind, and I'm fully expecting that not to
be Hugh Jackman, like that mightbe the Daniel Radcliffe version of Wolverine.

(06:34):
Could be, could be. ButI'm excited because what this, what this
movie gives me the excuse to do, is now go back and watch all
of the X Men films from Fox, all of the fantastic Like I'm gonna
watch everything Fox Marvel has done,whether it's for this podcast or not.
I'm gonna watch them all, revisitthem because I haven't seen some of them

(06:54):
in like ten years since Day's FuturesPast came out. So you've got to
give me a head on those,because my recollection of the X Men movies
where that I really loved them atthe time, but like, there's something
I have in me that tells methey're not going to hold up well.
And I don't know if that's melike being like weird about my childhood favorite
movies, or if they just wouldn't, like, you'll have to tell me

(07:16):
how that goes. Absolutely, Yeah, well, I mean it did themselves
a favor with X three. Theywent and hired the same director and or
the same writer to direct the DarkPhoenix movie and basically retell the story in
a worse way. So now Xthree is more watchable than it used to

(07:39):
be. So that's fair, allright. I will not be including Dark
Phoenix and my rewatch, not withthat attitude I have, even I have
standards. I saw every X Menmovie in theaters except for Dark Phoenix,
so it doesn't count. Yeah,yeah, well you weren't missing much.
I know we could talk about thisall day, but if you could give

(08:01):
your quick one wish that you wouldhave for this movie. With all the
rumors that are out there, whoknows if they're true. Like, you
know, one of the rumors thatI'm super hoping is true is that this
is like a take on dead TedBoole Kills the Marvel universe, but it's
Deadpool Kills the Fox Marvel universe.So I'm hoping to see, like you

(08:24):
know, Ben Afflecks Daredevil, youknow, make an appearance and stuff like
that, because I love the director'scut of Daredevil with Affleck. So that's
my that's my hope. But whatare what are one or two of your
hopes for this movie? I alsowant the dunk King himself, Ben Affleck
to show up in this Other thanthat, I know it's hard to do,

(08:56):
but they can do it better thanthey did in The Flash with Against
But give me Michael Clark Duncan's kingpin, like at least an allude to him
somehow, the late great Michael ClarkDuncan, because he was he was a
good kingpin. Like I love Dnofrionow, but just just paying respect to
him somehow, whether it's with deletedfootage, not a CG version like some

(09:18):
a little bit of a tribute tohim would be nice. I know,
want that version, Like I didn'tknow, I don't know any of the
rumors about this movie. I don'tand I wish I stayed more informed.
I want Deadpool kills the Fox Marveluniverse real bad. I think what I
want even more though, is Iwant Deadpool kills the Sony Marvel universe.

(09:39):
Like get like two seconds of likevet him going and then like Deadpool shooting
him in the head. Great,that's what I want now. Yeah,
well, unlike the Fox Marvel universe, Sony's universe is somehow still alive.
So yeah, well we'll get intothat here shortly. While we're on the

(10:00):
topic of X Men, another trailerdropped over the last few weeks, and
that's the that's not the order.The X Men ninety seven trailer dropped for
the Disney Plus reboot continuation of theX Men animated series from the nineties.

(10:20):
I wasn't big on the X Menanimated series growing up. I have rewatched
it since then, but I andI'm going to rewatch it before this.
What do you what was your guys'connection to the X Men animated series?
You guys, first rush, italways felt edgier to me than anything else

(10:45):
that was on the Saturday Morning Cartoondown to even the release of the first
couple episodes on these all black VHStapes with these little red accents on the
cover that just made it look likethis was a level up from the other
stuff that was out there. Ialways thought what I think it was.

(11:07):
The Night of the Sentinels was thetitle of like the first one or two
episodes, and that arc to kickthat show off was just amazing. I
loved it, and I always feltlike I was watching elevated content when I
was watching some of those episodes.I really did, and and it was
just a significant part of my Saturdaymorning lineup, between that and the the

(11:35):
Spider Man animated series, which Ihope gets a similar treatment because there's still
so much that they could tell withthat, especially how it ended. And
then you go over to DC andyou had Batman the animated series. That
was That was peak Saturday morning entertainmentfor me. But I always really loved

(11:56):
X Men. I read Batman comics, I read Spot sider Man comics.
I didn't start reading x Men comicsuntil that show, and then not too
late long after that, it releasedX Men. What is it? X
Men? Is it unlimited? Whereis it at? You know what?

(12:18):
Where? They did the ultimate rebootfor Spider Man two along with them.
Yes, yes, they did anultimate hut of a of a lot of
different stuff, and and Spider Manwas a big one. But the X
Men one, I thought was thecomic version of the show, and it
was edgy, and I love theart and I still have every one of
the issues, and I have thegraphic novels bound behind me. But it

(12:41):
was all all originated from the lovefor this series. So I am.
And I've met the creators of thisseries in person, the writers and the
show runners, and they're great.The main show runners is this cute,
little old couple that goes to smallcomic cons with X Men letter jackets,

(13:01):
and they're just great. So I'mso stoked. Man, I can't tell
you how stoked I am for this. You just unlocked something because I forgot
about the Ultimate X Men and howridiculously into it I would so like you,
I'd been reading Spider Man forever,I had been reading a couple other
comics I think I had like SonicComic subscriptions as well forever, but like

(13:24):
I got into X Men because ofthis TV show. I had like all
of the action figures, gambit writtenand sideclaps were my favorites, still remain
favorites to this day, and startedup the comics with Ultimate X Men because,
like you, this felt like thatTV show but in comic book form,
and I loved it so like Imean, I you mentioned X Men

(13:45):
ninety seven briefly before the show happened. The theme song has been running on
loop in my head and will untilI listened to and after the show to
finally get it out of my head. But I have weirdly deep connections to
this that I didn't realize until Ihad seen the trailer for this a couple
of days ago. I'm really hoping, like, like I didn't watch the

(14:05):
show when it was on, butI watched like this Spider Man animated series
was my jam, Like that wasthe one. It was that in Batman,
so like, I I know theX Men from that crossover episode they
did. So here's hoping you neverknow, Spider Man might show up in
this because it from the newspaper inthis, it looks like those characters are

(14:28):
still on Earth and not in whateverunlimited Spider Man territory they were series.
They wreck on that a little bitalready, so that's a good sign.
But yeah, I'm excited for this. People are already picking apart the animation

(14:48):
style and some changes that they've madeto certain characters already. But it's Disney
Plus. You can't have you can'thave rogue looking that thick. I'm sorry,
it's not the nineties anymore. Also, I feel like I know exactly
the memes you're talking about, Uhmemes Edvill's advocate. I'm sure if you

(15:15):
watched all the episodes of the originalseries, she wasn't always that thick.
Like, I'm sure there was framesfocused on it. And you know,
we still live in an age wherethey made The Incredibles and so I and
and you know, uh, I'msure. I'm sure there's still room for

(15:37):
you know, certain things to bein this show. They're just probably I
mean imagine if that was what theyfocused on in the first teaser, that
would be a little on the news, so you know they yeah, yeah,
I'm excited for this. I'm gonnahave to go back and rewatch the
X Men animated series because I feellike when I watched it when they put

(15:58):
on Disney US, they had theepisodes out of order or something, because
I feel like I missed chunks,like I don't remember the finale, like
being what it is that they're settingup in this trailer. So I'm gonna
have to go back and revisit abunch of this. So no, so
hold on. This was the onething that I remember because they did try
to watch it again when it wason back on Disney Plus. Is it
really really fast paced? Yes?I remember watching something and it was it

(16:22):
was moving by so fast it almostfelt like a clip show. And I
couldn't tell if I was like watchinglike like them catching you up to where
it should be, or as Iwas watching the show, Am I remembering
that right? Or are most ofthe episodes pretty well paid? I think
they were well days, But it'sbeen a while. I feel like I
need to rewatch as well. I'mgoing to Yeah, I got it now.

(16:44):
Yeah. I can't believe this iscoming out in March, Like I
was under the impression this was comingout maybe August timeframes. So I'm I'm
excited that it's right around the corner. I think it was supposed to come
out August last year because the toyshave been out since last summer. Like
you go to the toy isle atTarget, they have all of the X

(17:04):
Men figures from this show. Ohwow, Okay, so a lot of
the a lot of the new characterdesigns were revealed that way. Because with
the thing that doesn't change when youmove movie release dates around is the toy
release schedule. Because Spider Verse intoacross the Spider Verse had the same issue,

(17:26):
like all those Spider Man toys wereout months in advance of the movie
because it got pushed back. Thisfell into that same same pattern where the
toys are out, but the moviewasn't or the show wasn't. So does
the ever spoil anything? Occasionally itdoes? Yeah, I mean sometimes the

(17:48):
toys are so bombastic that they thatthey don't like. There's things, you
know, that they release some toyform that's never actually in the show.
But yeah, yeah, I feellike the build. I feel like the
build a figure for this Spider Man, one's first spie across the Spider Verse,
built like one of the one ofthe Spider Man variants that weren't in
any of the trailers. But itwasn't like a major one, just like
one in the background, like theGiant Spider Man. Oh got it?

(18:11):
Okay, So yeah, I'm wayI'm excited. I hope. I'm not
hoping for anything like huge from thisshow. I just wanted to be decent,
you know, like you know,I don't know if it's gonna be
episodic, or if it's gonna bea longer story or not, but I
just I just want it. Ijust want it to be Watchabule, you

(18:33):
know, like, I feel likeyou've got all the ingredients. You don't
need to make too many changes.I get you gotta you know, the
animation style and stuff like that,and and I'm sure there's gonna be some
elements. I just hope it's notsomething that is is so easy to pick
apart, you know, like ifthey make slight changes because we're in twenty
twenty four now instead of the nineties. I understand some of those things,

(18:57):
but I feel like it was forrest for its time, and like you
don't really need to mess with stuff. So very cautiously optimistic right now.
For sure me too. I'm probablygonna start watching the the original series again
tonight because why not. Yeah,it sounds like a good time to me.

(19:18):
I'm gonna do the same. Lastthing. News wise, before we
dive into Madam Webb, the Fantasticfour has been announced. We have our
our first family, officially announced byMarvel on Valentine's Day in a Valentine's card.
We have Pedro Pascal as Mister Fantastic, Vanessa Kirby su Storm, I'm

(19:45):
blanking Ebon mass Bacharak as Ben Grimthe Thing and then Joseph Quinn as Human
Torch Johnny Storm, Josh, whatdo you think of this cast? How
do you feel about Pedro Pascal becomingmister Fantastic? So I just got done
rewatching What am I trying to say? Rewatching The Last of Us? My

(20:11):
mom wanted to see it because shelikes Pedro Pascal and he's excellent in that.
He's excellent in The Mandalorian, He'sexcellent in whatever he does. However,
I, you know, I'm notgonna lie. The oversaturation argument is
in my head, and I Imean, what are you gonna do when

(20:33):
you're a popular actor. You're anactor. You're gonna act, right,
So it's not like you're you know, studios are gonna be like, oh
he's so popular, we're not gonnacast him. Uh. But I just
wonder how he's gonna be because hehas built up this swagger to him,
this certain type of what you expectfrom his characters, whether that's the you

(20:57):
know, the solemn kind of youknow, grizzled dude, you know who
is the protector or he's the youknow, he's the wild guy that has
Nicholas Cage over to his house oryou know, he's the he's the dude
taking over the US and wonder womanI this. I'm trying to think of

(21:19):
a role he would do similar tothe mister Fantastic that I think of,
Like I still think of the onewho's a little unsure of himself. He's
so smart, but he kind oflacks some social cues or stuff like that.
I wonder how he's gonna play misterFantastic read Richards. But I really
like Vanessa Kirby. I'm so gladthat she landed this role. I've I've

(21:44):
loved her in the Mission Impossible moviesand I want I just want more of
her, so I think this couldbe a great role for her. Joseph
Quinn, I've only seen him inStranger Things as far as I know,
but I really liked him in that, and I feel like he could he
could really shine in this, dependingon the type of you know a guy

(22:07):
he plays and then ebom, ifthat's how you say his name, I
need to work on that. ButI love him and the bear. I
love him so much. He's gota lot of heart. He knows how
to turn on the crazy emotional aggressiveversion, but also like the heartwarming.
Uh that really hit me down tomy core persona. And so, yeah,

(22:32):
it's a it's a stellar cast.I'm just intrigued on how they're going
to play their roles. I needto watch the Bear. You need to
watch the Bear. Oh Alan killsme. There's I mean, the first
season is jarring because it's like,it's like I octane, you can't stop

(22:55):
to breathe it it it gives itselfa little time to breathe. In the
second season, and there's a wholeepisode dedicated to Ebom And at first I
was like, I don't know ifI'm gonna like this episode. Then by
the end of it, I'm like, this is like the best episode in
the show. It's so good.Yeah, he shines in that show X
Men ninety two, The Bear.I don't know what you wanted to go

(23:18):
with tonight, really hard. Well, Devin, what are your thoughts on
the fantastic forecast? I love thecast. I mean, I I am
not sick of Pedro Pascal yet.I don't think that I'm oversaturated from him.
I think I will take more ofhim. I think that I've seen
him in enough diverse roles too,that like this isn't like Jason Statham playing

(23:42):
mister Fantastic Like if it was that, I'd be a little bit more worried.
But I feel like Pedro's got alittle bit more range, and you
know, if I'm wrong, I'mwrong, right, and then this ends
up being another bad version of Fantasticfour. But on our podcast, Alan
had mentioned something that I'm really stickingwith that makes me a little bit more
optimistic, which you mentioned that thismight be them stuck in the sixties and

(24:06):
then kind of brought forward, orthey might have been like stuck between now
in the sixties, and I reallylike that idea. Yeah, given given
the style of this this Valentine's Daycard that we got, it does seem
like there's a sixties element at playhere. And it's directed by Matt Shackman,
who did WandaVision, So given thestyle of this poster and his history

(24:30):
with different eras on WandaVision, Ifeel like something something we're still in the
multiverse saga, So I feel likeeither there's got to be some time travel
shenanigans going on here. So yeah, do you think it's gonna be uh
Aptain America one type scenario where itstarts off in the in a one time

(24:55):
and then ends up in modern timeby the end. Possibly, I think
it might be more interesting to dolike halfway through they end up in modern
day and have to adjust and paniclike see that. We're like they have
to adjust, but they're also notbest boy like Steve Rogers. Wise,
I think that would be fun.We'll see what happens. I'm excited for

(25:18):
this cast. It was a coolposter for Valentine's Day. I thought that
was At first, I thought itwas really cool fan art, so but
then I saw that Marvel's Studios properposted it and I was like, wow,
that's not it's not a fan account. I had to I really had
to, like trouble check. Butyeah, it's kind of cool. Yeah,

(25:41):
I'm surprised. And it's coming outnext year, so they're really getting
in too. They're speeding things upwith us pretty fast. So I think
they're taking a full advantage of alot of things being in post production and
being able to breathe a little bitand like, let's get things going production
wise, get that that engine movingwhile the post production stuff is going.

(26:06):
As with every incarnation we've seen,I am most intrigued about how their powers
will look. And I the fanfor Sticks. As not great of a
movie as that was, there wereelements that I really liked. I liked
the body horror element of it initiallywhen they were discovering their powers. But

(26:30):
it's gonna be interesting how they dothe thing, because I think Marvel has
really honed in on how they dothe Hulk, and and that took several
incarnations and movies to develop and perfectover time, and we've gotten a few
different versions of the thing that's kindof a mix between practical and overdone CGI

(26:52):
and and yeah, I really aminterested about how they're gonna showcase some of
these powers. And then same waywith the with the Vanessa Kirby's character,
Like is it just gonna be completelyyou know, you know she's just off
screen and dubbing her stuff like youknow, like they did with a lot
of jessic Aalba's spots. Or isit going to be more of a transparent

(27:15):
or translucent type thing or or youknow what. I'll be interested to see
how it's portrayed visually. But I'mintrigued. Yeah, all right, I
think we've we've gone on for almosthalf an hour not talking about it.
I think we got to pull offthe band aid and talk about today's today's

(27:36):
main topic, which is Sony Marvel'slatest entry into their Sony Universe of Marvel
characters, but in a different universefor some reason, Madam Webb starting Dakota
Johnson. This is the first ofthree Sony Marvel films coming out this year.

(28:00):
The Internet has been a blaze aboutthis movie since for the last few
weeks. Now we all saw it, so you don't have to if you
did, I'm sorry, Devin.You're our guests. You get the honors
of telling us what you thought,like spoiler free, what were your general

(28:22):
thoughts of Madam Webb? You knowwhat my expectations were met. I went
into this movie going, you knowwhat, it's probably not going to be
a great movie. But at nopoint will any character ever say I'm coming
out of the Eddie closet, So, you know what, it might be
better than that. And you knowwhat it was. Were there parts I

(28:45):
absolutely hated one hundred percent? Werethere parts I thought were just fine?
Yeah? Did I think there weresome good ideas in here? Absolutely?
I don't like this movie, though, I just don't, but it was
better than some dumpster five as I'veseen. Josh, what did you think
of Madam Web? I liked CodaJohnson. I think she's great. I

(29:14):
think she did pretty well on SNLa week or two back. So I'll
see any comic book movie. Iremember when comic book movies were rare thing.
I know there's a lot to sayabout oversaturation of comic book movies and
whatnot, but I remember when theywere few and far between. So I

(29:36):
will literally see any comic book movie. And now that I live a block
and a half away from a theaterand it's a cheap theater, yeah,
like, I'll go, I'll go. So I went, and and I'll
watch any and that's on TV that'ssuperhero related. For example, do you
remember the I think it was ninetiesor early two thousand's Birds of Prey show

(30:02):
that was on. Remember how badthat was? Yeah? This was that.
This was that on the big screen. Like it felt like they were
trying to mimic the aesthetic of that, the budget of that, the writing
quality of that. It felt likeI was transported back in time and watching

(30:23):
that, and I remember as akid knowing that that was bad, like
I was gonna watch it, especiallysince I knew that Mark Hamill was playing
a version of the Joker in thatshow. I knew it was bad back
then, but I was like,but this is what I got, you
know, And so here I wasin February. Wasn't in January, I'll

(30:45):
give it that, but it wasFebruary, and this is what I had
to watch for superhero stuff in thetheater. So I went to see it
and it was It was bad.It was bad, and I'm just surprised,
Like, I don't know how involvedAmy Pascal was in this, but
I feel like it's just this thing, like they they will knock it out

(31:07):
of the park with the Spider acrossthe Spider Verse and into the Spider Verse
animated films. They will they willput out a film with Marvel with Tom
Holland that just you know, bringsback all the nostalgia of the previous Spider
Man. They continue to tease uswith, oh, they got it,

(31:29):
you know, and then they giveus a crappy one, and then oh
they're back, and then they giveus a crappy one. And I remember
all the rumors that they were talkingabout of the different spinoff films back when
Andrew Garfield still had the reins,and it felt like they were just like,
we need to do that now.But with the quality of the Birds
of pre c W Show, andif that was their goal, they succeeded.

(31:56):
I had such low expectations for this, given having just seen Aquaman to
which is a different universe, adifferent studio, different universe. M having
seen what having seen the last SonyUniverse movie, which was Morbius. It

(32:22):
was better than I expected, butit still wasn't good. There's a lot
that's there are things that work inthis and the film doesn't play with those
too much. I think there aresome of the casting in this is very
well done. I find it weirdthat Adam Scott is stuck playing characters named

(32:45):
Ben a lot. It's distracting,honestly. But I think there are some
very bizarre choices with this film thatconfused me, and reading up on some
things on the Internet about it makeme go, oh, well that makes
sense then, but then the director'slike, oh no, that was never

(33:07):
the case. I'm like, okay, well, why did you make these
choices? I have questions? Yeah, way more research than I have been
I've been. I've so my mywife. Yeah, my wife was playing
Devil's Advocate. When I said Ihad to go see that, She's like,

(33:27):
it's not it doesn't look that bad. And then I got home from
seeing it and I played her thisTikTok that was here's a bunch of things
that happened in Madam Web and onelie and I played the TikTok for her
and it's all these different things andat the end of the video, the
guy is like, yep, youguessed it. All of that actually happened,

(33:51):
and she's like, no way,like really like a Pepsi sign.
So it's there. There there arethings that work in this, and I
I have a theory on why theydid some things in this at for later
stuff. But it's it's I havea hard time deciding if I would watch

(34:17):
this before I watch Morebius again.Oh, it's yeah, I would watch
before this. This this it Iwas tempted to go back and watch Morebius
this weekend just to like cleanse mypalate, like it's this is how b
Marvel movies are supposed to be,you know, but well, and that's

(34:40):
the thing like this, like we'retalking a lot about the Fox Marvel Universe
and the Fantastic Four, like thisfeels like it's from that era, Like
it makes no sense that the qualityof this is so different from even even
even the worst, even the worstMarvel MCU movies, like like say what

(35:01):
you will about the Eternals or themarl or the Marvels like it, they
at least have, like you understandthe intention that they were going for with
those movies and what their goal was. I don't know what the goal is
here, because if this is theSony universe of Marvel characters, that's great.

(35:22):
This is setting up something for whateverthey're doing with the Venom films or
Morbiaz or Craven. But then theycome out and say, oh, yeah,
this isn't a whole other universe.Then why why why does this movie
exist? They did, this isa whole separate universe from anything else,
because why not? So before we'lldive into it, then, because I

(35:52):
have done a lot of research withthis, let's go ahead and give this
our rankings of brilliant or lazy.Done more research than the writers of this
movie, I'll give you that.Yeah, I mean, yeah, I
watched I watched the animated nineties showwhere Madam Webb shows up and guess what,
she didn't look like Dakota Johnson.How she was older in that.

(36:13):
Yeah, this is I'm gonna gowith with lazy like that obviously, like
this is it's lazy. Hm,I feel like lazy is too kind.
I don't know, like, uhyeah lazy. Yeah, definitely lazy,

(36:35):
lazy for me. I'm sorry,guys, I know you loved that.
Yeah, yeah, I'm heartbroker.You know. The weird The best thing
to come out of this movie wasDakota Johnson's press tour because she just did
not care like there, Like Iread somewhere that as soon as the trailer

(36:59):
for this came out, she firedher agents and the press tour it just
feels like she was there to fulfillher contract. At one point, they're
asking her very apparent that this wasnot the movie she signed up for,
like she's she voiced a lot ofstuff about that. Whoa yeah or so

(37:20):
massive changes after she signed on thescript. One of those changes being that
the film supposedly was going to takeplace in the nineties and then got moved
to two thousand and three so thatthey can we talk about that why the
aesthetic was just weird, like thethis isn't a major I know we're probably

(37:42):
gonna talk about spoilers here in asecond. This isn't a major spoiler or
anything like that. But the threegirls in their twenties that were supposed to
be teenagers, it was like,how can we make them look like teenagers?
Let's give them all mid drifts andthen dress them up like stereotypical uh
girl back around dancers in a ninetiesBritney Spears music video that was their their

(38:06):
whole, all their outfits, andyeah, the everybody was kind of dressed
like the nineties or early two thousands, and I really didn't get I get
that, like they don't say hisname, but there is a Spider Man
character that's born in this that maybewas the purpose of the timeline, but
otherwise I really didn't understand the timelinepurpose of this. So from what I

(38:31):
understand, originally the birth of PeterParker, which they don't ever say his
name, No, they don't.The I saw this with somebody own their
rights to it. It's like thatthey didn't known the rights they do.
I saw this of someone who didn'treally know much about the movie going in
and didn't pick up that that wasBen Parker, Uncle Ben, and that

(38:52):
was Peter Parker's mom, and theirmind was like, oh, that makes
so much sense. Why didn't Ithink of that? So originally this was
going to set up the Spider Manfor the Sony universe of Marvel characters.
So you have that Spider Man bornin two thousand and three. So then

(39:15):
when you get to modern day withthe Venom films and Morbius, you have
a Spider Man who's in his earlytwenties. Yeah, that makes sense,
that would make sense for that timeline. Supposedly, yes, So supposedly the
movie went underwent reshoots and rewrites andgot rid of that because it wasn't good.

(39:42):
Originally it was going to set upI think the nineties like the nineties
aspect was going to set up.It was going to be Andrew Garfield Spider
Man, and then they had tochange that. So the timeline doesn't work
for Tom Holland either at this point. So it's it's very bizarre to see
why they like know why they didthat, and I'm sure we'll never actually

(40:04):
know the truth until like the exposcomes out, like the big book that
they just did for the MCU aboutall the Sony Marvel stuff, which I
cannot wait to read when they dothat, because it's going to be fascinating
all the way back to like JamesCameron Spider Man in the nineties, but
like the two thousand and three aspectof it, Like, what's bizarre to

(40:25):
me is the music choice. Ihave spoilers, like why does this end
with the Cranberry's Dream? Like thatmade no sense for the credits at all.
I think they were just hoping thatyou would stick around and listen to
it because there's no mid or endcredits scenes, so like they were just

(40:45):
like, let's give them a goodsong to like be like, oh,
yeah, this is a good songand maybe forget about the film you just
watch. But yeah, I couldn'teven stick around for that. I was
stempted too because I liked the song. But you know, I read one
little piece about how this doesn't fitand this isn't spoilers either, but at

(41:05):
one point they played Britney Spears's Toxic. It wasn't released as a single until
two thousand and four anyway, sothey didn't even stick to the like musically
I love It's like, that's likeSpoiler's argyle just made it a point to
have a Beatles song that recently releasedas the main character song for years,

(41:30):
but literally just came out. Sothat doesn't make any sense. If you're
gonna, if you're gonna spend themoney to have certain songs in your movie,
at least make sure they make sense, Like otherwise, what's the point.
Okay, So I have to ask, I am officially this might be
me. I'm officially sick of peoplegoing that remember Black Wester, you remember

(41:54):
it? I think I'm officially donewith it. And it was in like
shot one of this movie. Iget it. It's two thousand and three.
Eight stop. So I want toI want to. I want to
list off all of the songs thatcame out that played in this movie.
Okay, Miles Away by the YahYah Yas, which I'm not sure when
the time period for that is,but I know I know the yeah yeah

(42:14):
Yas were on the Spider Man threesoundtracks, so that at least kind of
checks out timeline wise. Breakfast atTiffany's by Deep Blue Something nineties, What's
up for Non Blondes? Nineties?Bitch by Meredith Brooks nineties. I think
we're alone now by Tiffany eighties butstill not two thousand and three and then

(42:37):
Dreams by the Cranberrys like I andlooking at this like I don't even think
the scores from the two thousand likepresent Day because it has final confrontation from
I Know What you Did last summer? Like did they just take the final
like the final fight score from IKnow What you Did last Summer and put

(42:59):
it at the PEPSI sign because ifthey did props Like I'm impressed by that.
I mean, that's a better moviethan this, Like I loved I
did like watch of that, andthat's another franchise they're bringing back unfortunately.
Yeah, yeah, I are wein spoiler's talk? Are we? We

(43:24):
can? I mean one more thingthat's not spoiler talk to our raheem plays
Ezekiel Simms before we even talk abouthis costume and everything. I wondered,
uh, like the like ninety fivepercent of his lines are dubbed. Yes,

(43:49):
it doesn't matter if the camera ison his face or if it's conveniently
panting away from him. It doesn'tlook like the things we hear are the
things he's said, like, Idon't know if his if it's an English
is not a primary language for himor something, but it was getting ridiculous
how much dubbing was just around hischaracter. I don't understand the choice for

(44:15):
that, but like, was itmy theater or was it your guys too
were like the mix for him wasalso really bad, where like everyone felt
like they were in the room andhe felt like he was like like standing
in a megaphone or something. Yeah, okay, his lips never seemed to
match. It was already crinding we'reoff camera or we are you know.

(44:37):
Yeah, it was weird. LikeI wondered what the point of that was
from a production standpoint. If thismovie went through as many rewrites as it
sounds like it did, I guaranteethat was to fix plot holes and they
changed a lot his motivation because hismotivation is I'm going to die in the
future because of these three girls.I need to kill these girls before they

(45:00):
killed me, which but that's alsolike half his motivation. There's another motivation
that shows up in the first second. I guess this isn't spoilers, Can
I spoil the first like minute ofthe movie? Yeah, he really wants
the Spider that they're after in thePeruvian Amazon. Why does he want the

(45:20):
Spider? All we get is I'vebeen waiting years for this. Oh,
it's because he wants to have thepowers like the Spider Spider. That's the
same reason why why the mom wasthere. Like they both went down under
the assumption that that Spider could giveyou, you know, properties of some
kind, and he wanted it morethan her. I don't understand why they

(45:45):
couldn't just capture too, but youknow, yeah, that's getting into a
little more spoilers. But his hiscasting choice, and I looked him up
to see what other things he's in. He was apparently in Napoleon, and
I don't remember him in Napoleon,or at least I don't remember his specific
role. Or I do remember himin Napoleon, but I can't remember his

(46:07):
lines. But he it was justweird, Like I was like, did
they just maybe it was that muchchanging in the story, but it was
almost ninety five maybe more percent ofhis lines were dubbed and noticeably dubbed.
Yeah, it took me out.Every time he talked, it took me
out. And then other things withthe editing he'd be in costume in one

(46:31):
frame and the next frame his isthe mask would be off or something you
could tell this movie was heavily editedor for reasons beyond me, Like I
don't put this film at the feetof the director, because clearly she's a
proficient director. She's been on She'sdirected episodes for Succession and a lot of

(46:55):
different other shows. She did TheDefenders, she did Esca Jones. He
was not involved in the story ofthis, she just directed it. And
so I don't put this at herfeet because none of this is All of
my gripes are editing and story based, honestly, So it's it's not on

(47:16):
her. But I'm trying to findthat wrote this thing. I'm trying to
find the number. But I sawa post I should have screenshot at it,
so I had it now. Thedirector talked about how many edits are
in the film, like how manycuts, and it's a ridiculous amount of

(47:38):
cuts in edits that I don't haveto try to find the number. But
for an editing standpoint, even themost edited films don't have that many,
Like like fight scenes in Marvel moviesget a lot of flak for as many
cuts they had. This had threetimes that at least. Wow, you

(48:00):
think that's all on the editor,because I even looked up the cinematographer because
there was just so many camera transitionsthat was just given a headache and so
many you know, uh, Twilightgrade camera movements and character movements and stuff.

(48:22):
And I even I looked at thecinematographer and or the director of photography,
and they've got a stellar background.I mean, dude's a huge,
huge winner. He's he's done workfor Avatar and Training Day and The Kingdom
and and Spider Man No Way Home. So I don't want to put this

(48:42):
at his feet either, but like, camera work and the transitions were just
jarring and give me a headache.Welp, I think part like if I
had to guess, I think alot of the reason there's so many edit
like so many problems with this movieis because they they had to reshoot it.

(49:05):
Like if you're gonna if you're goingto rewrite the movie in post production,
one of the ways to do thatis in editing. So if you
need to cover up a lot ofyour stuff, you can use edits one
of the things that people are puttingout online is they pull footage from Spider
Man two and put it into this. There's a shot when Peter Parker takes
off and it starts swinging. There'sa shot of a building going up.

(49:25):
It's a brick building, and it'sa shot at the end of the movie
when you before you see all theSpider women. Like it's the same building,
same camera movement, and like that'snot a huge deal, but it
shows me that they're they had to. Like they're getting footage reused from a
property in the movies. Not theend of the World. Michael Bay does
it all the time. But like, I think they try to fix this

(49:49):
movie and post and it just didn'twork. And I think they tried as
best as they could. Well,I mean, people like to give DC
shit for for canning Bat Girl,but they they They listed TV quality and
poor TV quality as one of theprimary reasons for canning that movie, and

(50:15):
I feel like that is more thanproficient way to to describe this film.
It was this should have been canned. I feel like they would have probably
made more money if they wrote thisoff than releasing it. Well, I
think the reason they didn't has todo this is the best argument I've seen

(50:38):
for why this movie came out iscontractually for them to keep the rights to
Spider Man at Sony, they haveto release a movie a year wow,
and they already have two they dodo. Wouldn't this hurt those? I
feel like because we still got totalk about those, We still have a

(51:00):
lot of this movie to talk about. We haven't even dove in. It's
still spoilers. But I feel likeif this is how the Sony Spider Universe
year is starting, is are peoplenot going to think about this movie when
they consider buying tickets for the nextone. Well, I think if they
wanted to use any of these charactersgoing forward, they had to use them

(51:23):
in this. So if they wantto keep Madam Webb or any of these
Spider women, they had to usethem. So I'm wondering if that's the
case. If because I don't knowthe details of the Sony Marvel deal,
but I'm assuming at a certain pointthese characters who have never appeared on screen
before might have reverted back. SoI wonder if they made this movie an

(51:47):
attempt in an attempt to keep thoserights a little bit longer so Marvel doesn't
try to buy them back because I'msure whatever deal they signed in the nineties
to get those characters has its limits. I'm sure, I'm sure. Let's
get into spoilers, please please,all right, spoilers. Spoiler alert is

(52:09):
up. So who wants to startoff with spoilers. Let's just start.
Let's just talk about the beginning,the very beginning. The opening sequence scene.
It gives you a tone expectation forthis film, between the clearly they're

(52:30):
not in Peru scenes to the Spiderpeople, the weird Spider people. They're
the jarring camera work for them,climbing down the trees in a weird way
that's more lizard like than Spider like. The the let's pick up the dying

(52:53):
woman and run through the trees likewe're Edward from the Twilight series. It
was very it was very like settingyou up like this is the movie you
walked into and you're gonna you're gonnayou're gonna be stuck here for a good
you know, however long it was. I mean, if that was the
goal of the opening scene, that'sthat's I took that away from. Yep,

(53:15):
yep, I know what I'm herefor. It was bad, That's
what I'm trying to say it wasbad. You guys know more about this
than I do. Are the Spiderpeople like Cannon to Spider Man Loyer like
the Peruvian Spider Okay, so thisthis blows my mind. Then, So
there are Peruvian Spider people that haveall of the same powers as Spider Man

(53:36):
that we know, who's supposed to, at least in my mind, be
kind of a one of a kindperson already have his powers with the exception
of the web flu which I'm assuminghe makes himself, already basically have his
suit. So does this now cheapenwhat Peter Parker is going to be doing
later for you guys the whole thing, Like, thank god they did the
last Like it doesn't help this film, but the fact that they did the

(53:59):
this as an alternate universe is theonly saving grace because if they apparently went
with their original timeline and the wholeinspiration for the Spy the iconic Spider Man
suit is that it's not only basedoff these Peruvian Spider people, but also
a murderer. Yeah, apparently walkedaround murdering people in broad daylight twenty years

(54:23):
before Spider Man, you know,came out, Like, did they not
think that somebody would be like,why do you look like that murderer that
was killing a bunch of people.Here's the thing, though, no one
saw the murderer because everyone thought DakotaJohnson did it, Like everyone thought it
was Madam Webb. Like no onesaw the spider guard ready, like they

(54:44):
were ready to what were they initiallytrying to arrest her for, Like I
don't know it, like jumping trains? Was that what they were trying because
it was sudden like they were likefour cops on her, They're on a
different plan for him. Two minuteslater in the cops like, oh no,
you're under arrest, Like there's noway even like the kidnapping thing,

(55:07):
yeah, it was. And thisis New York, you would think somebody
would be like, three four womenare running from somebody. Maybe we should
give them a slight benefit of thedoubt and not just assume that they're just
let's just arrest the main one,the older looking one. I mean,
it was weird. It was aweird choice. Yeah, but but we

(55:28):
were talking about the bad guy.Yeah he's got can I kill everybody?
Can I ask you guys a question? Yeah? Yeah, does he look
like he aged at all in thirtyyears from like the opening scene to okay,
but like ten years but ten yearslater, but he ages like forty
years like in the future, Likeit looks like Albert Einstein here in his

(55:52):
uh in his Yeah. That wasa jarring thing because at first I was
like, the Spider Man, thespider venom is like keeping him young.
But then he's like like, yeah, darro in ten years, it's weird.
Did he spend those ten years ontattooing? Did we know that that's
what it does to people? Possibly? So he kills everybody in the beginning

(56:15):
to get this spider, and againall I could think of was just like,
get another spider, my guy.So from my understanding was that no
one could find this one spider becauseit hides so often and the Spider people,
from the looks of it, theSpider people have a bunch of them,

(56:36):
like underground in their caves with abox of scraps. So I think
that was like finding one in thewild, is what did it for?
Like? Is why why it wasso special that she found one? Because
they're very hard to find in thewild because the Spider people have them all.
Well, he kills them, andthen and then you know, Tony

(56:59):
Stark lives his life in the citywith this this mass of like you know,
Spider and enclosure, and his wholedeal is he has a he has
a reoccurring nightmare that three women inSpider suits are there to kill him and

(57:19):
and he doesn't want to die.And initially I was like, Okay,
so are they also the bad guys? Like are we supposed to believe that
they are? Like we get thathe's a bad guy, but then we
watched them kill him, so like, are we supposed to think that they're
also bad guys? Because I wasn'treally hitting the hero vibe on them either,

(57:43):
Like just felt like there were threecostume people that were killing a dude
in his pajamas, Like it remindedme of like a like a seed,
like if c W produced The Watchman, Like it reminded me of that bit.
We're like, oh, maybe thesearen't the good guys either, Maybe
there's some weird moral gray stuff goingon. And I was actually kind of

(58:04):
on board at that point. I'mlike, Okay, tell me what these
morally gray Spider women are doing now, Yeah, give me a little of
them. But yeah, we get. We get none of that. Do
you want to see for all theall the uh fuck boys out there that
were that were so into Sydney Sweeney'scostume, you get it all in the
trailer. That's as much as you'regonna get. Like, that's there's nothing

(58:27):
more in the movie. I yeah, so evidently, Uh, this is
the big thing that changed in thescript. This is the very there's not
much. You know, how weirdit is when a movie like this doesn't
have much on its trivia page onIMDb. This is the first entry.
According to Dakota Johnson in an interviewwith The Rap, the screenplay underwent extensive
rewrites, to the point was nolonger resembled the film that she said on

(58:51):
for We've talked about that already.The original screenplay was described as very dark,
as darker and very terminator and firedand would have seen Madam Webb and
the Spider Woman trying to protect apregnant Mary Parker from Ezekiel Simms as who
wants to kill her to prevent thebirth of Peter Parker. See that sounds

(59:15):
like a still bad movie, butmuch more entertaining movie than what we got.
I would have wanted to know whywhy does he want to kill Peter
Parker. I maybe not give hima such a just different color Spider Man
suit ripoff, Like give him adifferent suit. It's not that hard,

(59:37):
But like I would have been interestedin that. I mean, the terminator
thing has been done a million timesover, but like that would have been
interesting. It would have also beeninteresting if one of these people who could
see into the future gave us aninkling as to how these three girls got
their powers within the next ten years. We have two clairvoyants in the film,

(01:00:00):
and not one of them talks aboutthat. It's weird, you know.
I don't need to know how theyget their powers in the movie that
they present us. I think itwould be great to see, like even
in a montage at the end,like a montage of them each getting their
powers. Sure, like that thatwould work for me. I don't need
to deep dive into all these Spiderwomen, I because I don't know these

(01:00:22):
characters. So I think there's astory, the stories that could be told
there, and I wish we hadgotten a bit more of them. But
the casting and like the aging ofthem, like they're definitely not teenagers in
this and they don't look out ofplace in the costumes that they have in

(01:00:43):
the future. So I wonder iftheir plan was to like introduce them into
the Spider Verse films later on,and I call them it almost felt like
a reverse event or reverse or likea US this League thing. Right,
we're gonna shae them all working together, and then they're each gonna get their
own movie to explain their thing,and then we're gonna we're gonna tie it

(01:01:06):
together later somehow. Yeah, ButI mean, it really did feel like
it's a prey like to the tothe point where the end or her new
layer is that almost the exact samelayer as what's her face? Ad and
pards of Prey. She's got thewindow, she's got the chair. I

(01:01:28):
was gonna say, I think it'sthe same wheelchair. Yeah, she's got
and she and the window like she'sgot the webby weird window looking over the
city. Like it. It feltlike they just found that set and filled
it. Here's here's my theory onthis whole thing. I think Amy Pascal
lost a bet to Kevin Faigi,and I think he made her make this

(01:01:52):
movie just so he could have thoseSpider women to put in secret Wars.
I would never or touch any ofthese characters that get Like I mean,
so here's the thing, though,like the Three Spider Women, like I
could watch a whole movie of justthem. I don't need the Madam Web

(01:02:13):
stuff. Like I enjoyed their aspectof it, like them coming together,
not like having the different backgrounds ifwe if it had been a movie of
them like learning to lose their powersand not just learning how to do CPR,
it would have been a lot betterfor me than what it is.
But like, like they they workin it, like like, they're not
the problem with this movie. It'swhat the movie does with them that's the

(01:02:36):
problem. Like it they they theircostumes look good. They have an interesting
enough power set that we don't getto see in these Spider Man films,
the Spider Sony, Spider Verse films. Like these characters could work, they
just don't work in this Well.I kind of had that with Madam Web
herself though, So I like MadamWebb. So there's a couple of times

(01:02:59):
I think they do Madam Web's powersreally well. The kind of case in
point is when they're on top ofthe fireworks thing or the exploding fireworks warehouse,
which mm hmm okay, and youcan watch her get visions of where
the fireworks are gonna be, andyou see her Captain America ing the fireworks
away from the group. I thinkthat's very cool and I love that.

(01:03:22):
Where I hate her powers is whenshe goes I have a vision, then
they spell out the end of themovie and then you have to watch what
you just saw happen. I hatethat, and like, I feel like
a lot of the movie misuses herpowers like that, but there are very
cool powers. I also thought thatit took her too long to try to

(01:03:46):
do something about it, Like shehad way too many visions before she decided
let's open the window, you know, like just you could have had a
couple less or at least they justkept on going, like the one right
before Michael Epps died, the paramedicthing. It just kept repeating, and
I'm like, I get it.We all get it. We get that

(01:04:08):
she doesn't get it yet, butwe all we don't have to see it
a fourth time? Uh and itAnd then finally she opens the window and
starts testing things. What I thisis the This was a similar critique that
I had of a much much muchbetter film was uh X men first class.

(01:04:30):
We get that this is not theMadam Web from or at least not
the age of Madam Web from ourprevious encounters. But that doesn't mean she
needs to be in a wheelchair withweird glasses by the end of this film.
She can. She can be youngand be walking and not. You

(01:04:53):
know, it was like, youknow, like, oh, we need
to have a shaved head paralyzed,you know, uh looking over uh Professor
X by the end of the film, and and we didn't. And then
they kind of rent con that inthe later films, they they put that
off a little bit. She lookeddumb. She looked dumb in whatever type

(01:05:14):
of chair she was in. Idon't know what type of chair that was.
It didn't look futuristic, it didn'tlook old. It was just look
weird. Can you, okay,can you explain to me how she lost
her vision and how she's paralyzed.Now she she fell from a height and
she got hit in the face bya by word, but is that not

(01:05:36):
is that like, yeah, yeah, I guess, okay, break her
time, broke her the second time. You know those spiders they get two
lives. Yeah, okay, yeah, because it was just so darkly.
It was like, okay, shegot hit with something, but where does
she get hit in the water?Like it was hard for me to see.

(01:05:58):
At least she hit her shoulder.Yeah. These fireworks can, apparently,
you know, blast door size holesinto brick walls. So you know
those New York State fireworks, man, like it's insane. They really take
out your eye. It wasn't thefireworks, it was the pepsi that they
went off by. Josh. Iwas gonna say, I have a request

(01:06:27):
when we're in New York for ComicCon next time, we need to go
to the Madam Webbs Pepsi. Yeah. Well I went to that in October.
My, uh, you've met Kevinand Steven and they moved over to
the Bronx and uh, they're veryUh they got a very nice boardwalk in

(01:06:48):
front, and they moved the Pepsisign over to that boardwalk. And so
it's a it's gorgeous. It's inthis little park now and I took some
pictures in front of it. It'snot on some shade firework. And also,
if if a crime had happened afew days before, would they leave

(01:07:08):
all those fireworks there. Like,I was also surprised that that it's like
two weeks back. I'm seeing aweek later or something. Yeah, is
it two weeks? So yeah,she does go down to Peru. Okay,
hold on what this is one thingI was confused about why did she
go to Peru? I mean,like from the second the movie started,

(01:07:29):
I'm like, she's gonna go backto Peru? At what time is she
going to? But tell you that? But like, what on earth is
like did she expect to find thirtyyears later in Peru? That like would
have made any material difference unless likeexactly what happened happened, But like what
was her expectation of that trip?Yes? I don't know, Okay,

(01:07:51):
because what did she learn in hertrip? With great responsibility comes great power?
She no, uh, she learned. So this is the one thing
that bothered me about her character islike you get the fact that she doesn't
like kids and doesn't like family connectionsand all of that. They don't really

(01:08:15):
dive into it much beyond she wasin the foster system. They don't really
deal with her her hating her motheruntil she goes back to Peru. She's
like, I've hated you this wholetime, but I never knew the truth
that you did all this to saveme, because now I'm not sick,
and I'm like, okay, Ididn't get any Like I didn't know she
hated her mother. Her mother diedin childbirth, like okay, And I

(01:08:40):
say one thing on that point,though, It's okay if you don't want
kids. It's okay if you're alittle like feel uncomfortable at a baby shower,
But what bitch puts a blank thinginto the game just to into the
game of your favorite memory of yourmother, just to be like, my

(01:09:01):
mom died so blank, Like,yeah, well she made a couple of
decisions in the beginning of the moviethat I'm like, I don't like her,
Like I get that she's supposed tobe prickly, I don't like her.
Yeah, I did not like herfor that. I just don't put
anything in there, Like it's notthat hard, h they don't they're clearly
not your friends. They don't knowthis. But that was a bitch move.

(01:09:25):
I did not like that. Itwas weird. Yeah, it's it's
so bizarre, Like if you're gonnaplay the game, play the game like
you don't. Yeah, yeah,it was like her motive, Like the
whole reveal about her mother being likedoing it to protect her from being sick,
like made no sense to me becauseit just felt out of left field.

(01:09:49):
And there's a lot of things outof left field, but that was
one of the more jarring things inthis film for me, was like,
Oh, she's hated her mother thiswhole time, Like I get, I
get being a foster kid and likeyour mother dying in childbirth, but they
don't really explore that she's angry ather mom at all. It's just like,
yeah, I'm just this person becausethis was my life. Does she

(01:10:13):
not know that she was supposed tobe like super ill and she didn't like
she did not like no doctor becauseclearly these these Spider people knew enough to
get her home, like like sheshe's not raised in Peru, which would

(01:10:34):
have been more interesting, I think, But somehow she ended up in her
hometown with her family, So wouldshe not have access to her to her
medical history or some doctor not eventuallytell her or her family that yeah,
you were supposed to be a lot. She didn't go back to family.

(01:10:55):
Somehow she went from Peru to theNew York City foster care system. Oh
wait, that's right, she's notShe's not with her. Yeah, so
how'd she end up there? Specifically, Spider Man movies gotta be in New
York unless you're unless unless your venom. Like, she tells who she is
and who her mom is, soit's not like she was an anonymous baby

(01:11:17):
dropped off in New York, Likedid they just at what point do we
say we're overthinking? Madam web tolisten, listen. I don't expect a
non New Yorker to know this,but it's actually a really big cluster in
the south Bronx of Peruvian Amazonian spiderpeople. It's just as specifically where they
hang out. It's their area.I I don't expect you to not know

(01:11:38):
that, but that's where they hangout. That's why she went back.
Yeah, makes sense. They've they'vegot they've got their own little bar me
too. Whatever. Whoever took herback, whoever took her back, uh,
clearly went back to Peru and waslike, guys, we gotta stop
dressing up in this weird spider gear. We need to start wearing normal clothes.

(01:11:59):
So when this child visits us intwenty years. We just look like
normal people because the centuries of usdressing in this weird spider get up,
it's not gonna look good when shecomes back to see us. It made
fashion choices based on returning her.You know what the movie I want to
see is I want to see Peruvianspider people take New York, Like they

(01:12:20):
go to New York to drop thisbaby off and like discover like eco friendly
cotton button downs. Yes, andlike that's how the thing changes them.
Yeah, exactly right. Yeah,okay, so hold on, we brought
it up quick or I brought itup quick. What did you guys think
of the with great power comes greatResponsibility line in this one? They did

(01:12:41):
it, guys. It's like halfthe line. Now, it's like half
the line, and it's in Yodaspeak like it's backwards. But it doesn't
mean the same thing anymore. Likeif you say it in that way,
it means that you're just destined tobe responsible and have power. Like,
it doesn't mean the same thing anymore. Yeahugh, it was. It was.
It was supposed to be a ah, you see type thing, and

(01:13:04):
when you take on the responsibility,great power will come. For those of
you who did not go see Madamweb So, given what I know about
Madam Webb as a character, knowingher as like the I'm gonna jump between
Spider versus and Guide Spider Man,like that's the responsibility. And then like

(01:13:28):
once she accepts that, like getlearning to like hone her powers, I
kind of get it doesn't work inthis because that's not what this character is
at all. But and again,if this, if they had changed this
to be less of an origin storyfor the Sony Spider Man and more of

(01:13:50):
a alternate universe thing, then especiallywith all of the alternate universe things we've
been getting from Sony lately, I'msurprised that wasn't something like instead of that,
we got an astral plane power versusan alternate like her powers are only

(01:14:13):
in this timeline. There's no there'sno teas of alternate universes. There's no
like, you know, I've seenyou in another world and you have powers,
or I've seen a Spider Man andand and that's why I molded my
murderer suit to kind of look likethat Spider Man, but it was from

(01:14:34):
a different universe. There's no hintto that, so it just felt weird.
And yet I never got the sensethat this Madam Web would become that
universe hopping mod Madam Web. Instead, it's astral plane time time travel powers.

(01:14:54):
So I mean, there's nothing sayingthat the rascul plane can't go through
dimensions. You could have teased it. You could have teased all the wacky
stuff when she was out of body, which they man, they I mean,
it was just like, what canwe take from Black Panther? What
can we take from Doctor Strange?You know, they could have hinted towards

(01:15:15):
it in one of those montages alittle bit that they didn't. But yeah,
it's just a lot of weird choicesin this man, a lot of
weird choices and it and it doesn'tgive me hope. So one are the
other two? We've got Craven coming. What's the other one? I'm blanking
on the other one? We gothere? Wow? Yeah, I didn't

(01:15:40):
know this. Where do you guyssit on Venom like you guys? Are
you guys like Venom fans or nope? Nope? Okay, I compared to
the other Sony Spider, it's betterthat they're better than the the other stuff
that they've done. Interestingly enough,this is the only one produced by Avi
a rad who has been with theSpider Man universe since the first Raimi movie,

(01:16:08):
which is very bizarre that he's notproducing this one. But no,
we have Craven the Hunter, whichis scheduled to come out on August thirtieth
of this year, and then Venomthree, which is set to come out
in November. So what's weird iswe had a trailer for Craven the Hunter

(01:16:28):
before, we had a trailer forthis and it got pushed back. Yeah,
does it look good? It wasn'tin front of this movie, so
I don't like. Yeah, I'msurprised. Yeah, wouldn't. Did they
bury that trailer already? Kind ofmean it wasn't a good trailer. My

(01:16:55):
guy, this is the and we'vealready kind of had this talk or at
least, well, I don't knowhow me and you've had this talk.
Alan, I know I've talked aboutit with with Seth how uh uh.
The Craven that we get in theSpider Man two game actually really good.
I love that him. Yeah,this is really good. Uh. And

(01:17:16):
the fact that it's connected to thesame company that's gonna give us Aaron Taylor
Johnson's Uh that's his name, right, Craven that looks significantly dumber and different,
and I don't understand it, Like, clearly you know how to write
an interesting Craven because you did itin the game. Uh. I know

(01:17:39):
they're different people and it's and it'sdifferent parts of the company, but that's
got to feel weird for them tolike release such a heavy Craven game and
for it to be received pretty well, and then the Crave Craven trailer is
like, Nope, it's not gonnabenefit from that at all. Trying to

(01:18:00):
see what the budget was for this, because it's a really good, like,
it's a good compelling version of Craventhat I think is a really good
character arc throughout the entirety of thatgame. And if they're not going that
direction with Craven, are they justlike, Hey, it's dude, the
like's done, don't worry about it. Yeah. I can't even remember the
trailer other than like, he's likea he's like a he's like an animal

(01:18:23):
whisper. Isn't he like something alike Aquaman? But for animals it's it's
the same. I'll say that Ihave the same standpoint with the Spider Man
villain films, as I do withthe Batman villain films like Joker. At
a certain point, the character's notjust not as interesting to me without that
dynamic of the hero villain thing,because Craven, like the Craven's whole thing

(01:18:44):
is him the hunting Spider Man,and like, what who's he going to
be hunting in this? Russell CroweAndrew Arianna Dubois, like, who is
he hunting in this? They're bothin this movie, By the way,
you're just naming people like I thoughtthe Russell Yeah, no, Russell Crowe
places dad yep from from Krypton,right, no, from Olympus. But

(01:19:12):
if I had a nickel for everytime Russell Crowe played a superhero comic book
character's dad, I'd have three nickels, which isn't a lot, but it's
weird that it's happened three times.We're gonna have to when that comes out,
We're gonna have to rank. We'regonna have to rank the Russell Crowe
as yes man, Russell crow mustbe pissed. He must be pissed that

(01:19:35):
he's not Ingladiator too, but hewas in Craving the Hunter Craven the Hunter.
Yeah, sies, don't worry.Yeah, I don't know, man,
I'm what evidently a millions in Craventhe Hunter too. Yeah, they
got to pull in all this Sinistersix, right, Like that's what they're
doing, is Sinister six. Andthen they're gonna get Spider Man. You're

(01:19:58):
not gonna carey about him. Youdon't know him, but he definitely looks
like anti hero in that film,and just like they were trying to make
Morbius an anti hero, and it'sjust I don't get it, man,
like I would think. Yeah,I don't know, man. I don't
want to talk too much about Cravingbecause I don't know enough about them about
the movie. But this gives meno hope for that. We'll be doing

(01:20:23):
We'll be doing well. Touch backon this in October, now, in
August when this comes out. Sothis was this is for I mean,
this was an eighty million dollar movie. Apparently according to Google, it's made
fifty one worldwide. I don't thinkit's going to reach its budget. I
mean, it's it's slowing down hard. They released it on Valentine's Day for

(01:20:47):
all, for what reason, Idon't know. Maybe they were just like,
we've got a lead actress who cameout with a billion dollar movie that
came out on a Valentine and maybethat'll trick some people into seeing it.
But whoever got tricked into seeing this, I feel bad for you. I
feel like it's more the Deadpool cameout on Valentine's Day, so they're trying

(01:21:11):
to get that money. That's asuperhero release date now because ant Man did
it too, there's a whole campaignaround that of trick your girlfriends into seeing
this movie. It's Ryan Reynolds.They had, they had specific marketing campaigns
towards that. Yes, I justfeel like she was in Fifty Shades.
Maybe say, hey, remember thatfifty Shades girl. She's got another Valentine's

(01:21:31):
Day movie coming out. Let's gosee her and now you most people will
probably have to be tied and boundto watch this movie. So, oh
God, That's all I've got forMadam Web guys. I got nothing else.
Yeah, I can't think of anything. I'm sure, I'm sure I

(01:21:53):
could talk about this forever, butyeah I have I can't. Sorry,
I have one more specific thing.This is something that's been on my mind
since I heard it. I hate, hate, hate bad Crow like grown
inducing dialogue, and this movie doesit two times back to back, and
it makes me feel like at theend of the movie, someone just should
have checked to see if Madame wibwas actually okay. So when she's sitting

(01:22:14):
in the hospital bed, she's surroundedby the other spider women or whatever,
and the nurse comes in and shegoes, do you need anything, she
goes, no, I have everythingI need right here. Stop. I
hate that line. But then thenext line is she's in her wheelchair,
Like the next time she says anything, she's in her wheelchair in the thing
and they go, hey, howare you? And she goes, I

(01:22:35):
see clearer now than I ever havebefore. I'm like, just someone's question
for once. Stop this like thoselike that. The fact that those lines
happened at all sucks. The factthat they were said back to back just
I like groaned in the theater,Oh sorry there. The nurse was like,

(01:22:56):
this is for immediate family only,and they're like yeah, it's like
they're they're all three mine or somethinglike that. Three lines in roga.
So does she adopt them? Likewhat in her heart she had connected to
her web? The blind paralyzed paramedicwho hates everybody adopt the billionaire's daughter,

(01:23:18):
and and the the one girl who'swhat what was the so one was a
billionaire's daughter. Another was like herdad got deported and she was hiding in
the apartment and then I can't.The other one was like dad was just
a dick like and didn't that wasthe mom that was a step mom,

(01:23:43):
but the dad like hated her.Yeah, I know, it's weird.
It's weird, weird backgrounds for allthree of them. Do you think that
she was able to redo her wholeapartment to get that loft because she sued
the Pepsi company after their fireworks factoryblew up on her. Maybe, are
we sure it's not all that newlyadopted billionaire daughter money? Yeah, because

(01:24:08):
like prime real estate in New Yorkwith that kind of view out that kind
of window, that's not a cheapplace. We're gonna we're gonna make it
a web like your name. Uh, We're gonna make it a webby window,
and we're gonna get you a weirdlooking uh chair that doesn't look like
it's functional at all. And thenwe're gonna just hold the camera on you

(01:24:30):
as you slowly back away from thecamera in your chair. It's gonna look
laughably bad, but it's supposed tolook cool. That's why she's weird.
That's why she had to do allthe stunt driving training was for the wheelchair
scene. Yeah, she did doa lot of her stunt driving in this,
so shake all of it. Actually, she she trained how to drive

(01:24:51):
a taxi cab and an ambulance forthe crash scenes, you know where she
runs him over twice and he stilldoesn't die from Yeah. Well that that's
our review of Madam Webb and theSisterhood of the mid Drifts. And uh,
it was it was not it wasnot good. Not good. Oh

(01:25:14):
man, what what other What SpiderMan movies would you watch before this?
Again? What Spider Man movies?What spider what Spider Verse? Okay,
that's good. I can't think ofone. This is the worst. This
is twenty twenty four, and thisis on part this is Morbius is pretty
bad too, Like I I putit right up there with Morbius. I

(01:25:41):
would watch a solo movie about SpiderPig from the Simpsons movie, like a
whole three hour epic about Spider Pig. Before this one. Again, Disney
Plus hasn't given us that you're gettingthere. Yeah, I will be.
I want us to get together.I want you back at the end of

(01:26:02):
the year so we can review thisyear in Sony Spider Verse and rank these
films. Because I have a feelingthis is just the beginning. Guys,
all right, I mean, Venomhas better production history behind it, and
I've I still don't think that movieis coming out this year because I've heard
nothing about it. They're filming,they're filming. It got delayed, they

(01:26:26):
were filming before the strike started.The only thing I do know is that
Juno Temples in it, playing thevillain. So I've heard that. I
have heard that. I am nota fan of those films, but they're
they're made significantly better than this onefrom a production standpoint, a writing standpoint.
I don't like the stories in thosefilms, but they're much better made

(01:26:46):
than this. So if I'm goingto give my prediction now, I think
the Venom three is probably going tobe the best produced film. Uh,
this is going to be the worst, and Craven is going to be in
the middle and likely the same forstory. I just feel like they're going
to put more effort into Venom thaneither of these other two. Yeah,

(01:27:12):
I think it's a fair prediction,all right, Devin, Where can people
find you? Online? So bestplace to find me is at you have
to watch this podcast. You canfind that anywhere podcasts happens, so whether
that's Apple Podcasts or Spotify or Pandora. We also have an Instagram and follow
us on our Facebook page. Wego live every Tuesday's at six pm Tuesdays

(01:27:34):
Wednesdays now every Wednesday at six pmEastern Time or eleven pm if you are
in London with me. Yeah,Josh, where can people find you?
They can find me. I'm outthere. Nerve Herders is on hiatus for
now. My good buddy Seth movedout of state for work. He's rocking

(01:27:58):
a new location right now and stillkind of settling in there. In person,
I'll be at Planet Comic Con herein a couple of weeks in Kansas
City. I'll be coming out toWinchester for Horrific Film Festival Horrific Hope Film
Festival here in about a month orso, and then I got a couple

(01:28:20):
other things in the works all leadingup to Alan and I's return to New
York in October. So we gotmore stuff that we're going to talk about
in your future that we'll be backon here for yeh, Devin, you
should come to New York. Comeon, buddy, want to come to

(01:28:40):
New York. Do it? Justdo it, do it. We'll take
a trip. Well, you dressup like one of the Spider Women.
It will be fantastic. I woulddress up with one of the Spider Women.
I'd make a good Sydney Sweeney.This is already go on the right.
They can't see me, No,it's video. Al right, Well,
until next time, We're brilliant butlazy. I'm Alan, I'm Josh

(01:29:05):
Devin. Thanks for joining us,Yes, and until next time, we're
wishing you good mental health

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Madame Web | Brilliant But Lazy #20

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