April 22, 2025 • 29 mins
What if morality wasn’t just a social construct but something wired deep into our biology? Join us for an eye-opening interview with mathematician and author Martin J. Miles as he breaks down his book Understanding Morality, Freedom and Capital. From evolutionary moral codes to how modern capital has outpaced human instincts, this discussion is a powerful blend of science, philosophy, and freedom. A must-listen for thinkers, seekers, and changemakers. Let’s explore the math behind moral behavior — and why it might just be the key to saving humanity. ✨🌍📈
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
You are now listening to Vigilantes Radio, presented by the
only One Media Group. This is the people's choice, but
quality interviews, celebrities and special guests, hosted by Demitrius Denny Reynolds.
Call in to join the mix at seven oh one,
eight oh one, nine eight one three. For the complete
archive of episodes, visit only onemediagroup dot com and be
(00:23):
sure to like us on Facebook. At Vigilantes Radio. We
welcome all enjoy the show. Ladies and gentlemen. Please welcome
your host Demitrius who Demi Black Reynolds. Enjoy the show.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Hey, hey, hey, good morning, Good morning. What's going on? Guys.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
Welcome to another incredible episode of Vigilantes Radio live right
here on iHeartRadio, and I am your.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Host, Deanie.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
We have a very special guest for you, guys, so
you definitely want to stick around for that. But I
do have to say that this particular episode is pre
recorded and I can't wait to deliver it to your
inboxes and for you guys who subscribe to the show,
you'll be the first to know. Before I invite my
guests on, I do want to say, you know, it's
(01:18):
the moment that you begin when you begin to take action,
the moment you truly make the commitment, something remarkable happens.
Momentum shifts in your favor. Problems are transformed into opportunities,
Obstacles are transformed into pathways. Just a little bit of
(01:41):
initial effort and a positive direction can completely change your perspective.
And when your perspective changes, the whole world looks new,
different and full of promising possibilities. You cannot get all
the way to where you want to be, and just
one step, but just one step, you can turn all
(02:03):
the way around and begin heading towards that goal, that dream,
that place you truly want to be. Point yourself in
a positive direction, and you will immediately begin to experience
the benefits. Any achievement can bring value long before you
reach it, as long as you are continually reaching towards it.
(02:24):
And on this very day, your most treasured dream can't
begin to bring.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Richness to your life.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
But you have to take that first solid step, and
then you'll see how dramatically everything.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Else can change.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
My name is Kashdini, and change is possible. Are you ready?
Are you ready?
Speaker 4 (02:55):
Are you ready? And are you ready? Well, let's go,
Let's go.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
All right, all right again, welcome to the show. You're
listening to VRL.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
That's Vigilantes Radio live right here on Iheart's Radio, and
my name is Deani. I am your host today. Our
interviews are designed to go beyond the music, news, books, art, acting, films, technology, education, entrepreneurship, entertainment, spirituality,
and sometimes even past that thing that we call the ego.
(03:35):
Our interviews are designed to go behind the scenes into
the minds of these incredible human beings, you know, the
ones that are out there given it.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
They're all for me, for you, and for the world.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
Well, ladies and gentlemen, today we welcome a visionary mind
whose lifelong journey through mathematics, philosophy, and technology has accumulated
in a new understanding of morality.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Martin J.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
Miles a retired mathematician and US Navy veteran whose groundbreaking
work at n IST and NAA has shaped national standards
and digital networks. His book, Understanding Morality, Freedom and Capital
challenges everything we think we know about moral behavior. With precision,
(04:27):
insights and integrity. He breaks new ground for how we
understand ourselves. And with that, let's say welcome friend to
Martin J.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Miles. Good morning, good morning.
Speaker 5 (04:41):
Good morning. This is Martin Miles.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
How are you today?
Speaker 5 (04:46):
Just fine? How are you?
Speaker 2 (04:48):
I'm great, I'm great. Thank you for asking. So again,
welcome to the show.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
Before we really just dive into everything, what's been on
your heart and mind lately these days?
Speaker 5 (05:01):
Oh, I don't know. The news is so active, it seems, and.
Speaker 6 (05:08):
I'm very happy and I'm just watching and I want
to contribute to what I can.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
Indeed, indeed, so let's start with the big one. What
inspired you to write Understanding Morality, Freedom, and Capital at
this point in your life?
Speaker 6 (05:27):
Well, about five years ago, I wrote a very large
book called The Nature of Economics. And I've always been
interested in how what nature is and how we might
deviate from it. And I noticed that morality was cropping
(05:49):
up everywhere throughout the book. So when I finished the
book on the Nature of Economics, I write away began
to study morality more closely, and I was I don't
think I've ever written a book that policed me more
than this one. And I found a lot of things
that I just didn't expect to find. And I think
(06:12):
that's always good. You know, people think when you write
a book, you know, everything about it, but often you
do know a lot about it. But the book is
really a learning process. It uncovers a lot of things
that you just didn't know. And that was true with
this book.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
Indeed, with this book you proposed that morality is innate
and not learned.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
What led you to this conclusion.
Speaker 5 (06:43):
The data, the information. You know.
Speaker 6 (06:49):
The universe was formed about thirteen point eight billion years ago,
and one of the fundamentals of the universe is the
the laws of thermodynamics, and the law of entropy.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Was the key to this.
Speaker 6 (07:13):
And uh entropy is a continual loss of energy to
regions of lesser energy. Now, what what that has means
for us is that we have to keep striving to
replace energy all throughout.
Speaker 5 (07:31):
Our whole lives, and our life ends.
Speaker 6 (07:38):
If we don't do that, if we don't get the
energy that has been lost and that we need throughout
our life. And one way to measure that is something
called auto correlation. It's Marcos was the person who developed
(07:59):
them method of auto correlation, which means how steady is
something to the individual. And if we don't replace energy
when we need to, we die. So one of the
most moral things we can do is to maintain our lives,
and that is through a continual replacement of energy. That's
(08:23):
a basic life. Has coursed a lot more than that,
but that's without that, nothing is important, yes, And so
I noticed that one thing that has plagued people through
throughout history apparently is how morality and freedom are related.
(08:47):
And there was a noted economist that in the East
who said that what we need to do is establish
the relationship between morality and freedom. And I believe that
(09:09):
an act behavior is moral if and only if it
increases our probability of freedom. And so I did establish
the link between morality and freedom.
Speaker 5 (09:24):
And I was so pleased with that.
Speaker 6 (09:26):
But that's only the beginning, of course. But I think, well,
we can go from there or do you have any
other question there?
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Sure? What pleased you pleased you to most about that?
Speaker 5 (09:41):
Well?
Speaker 6 (09:43):
I started looking into you know, nature as her morality,
and as I say, the continual replacement of energy is
the most basic moral behavior. And I looked at euclid
for example, in his his Euclidean geometry, and he developed
(10:09):
the system of axioms, which are very brief, simple statements that.
Speaker 5 (10:15):
Are so simple that we don't need to prove them,
they're just obvious.
Speaker 6 (10:24):
But the axioms have to be independent of each other.
Axioms have to be consistent with each other, and they
have to be complete. And I just started to apply
this to the propensities for.
Speaker 5 (10:41):
Moral behavior.
Speaker 6 (10:44):
And you see, our innate behavior has existed in humans
for like fifteen million years and the well, but our
(11:05):
moral system is not complete because of evolution. So we
really don't. It's not as a completely logical system as
axioms would be, but only because it's incomplete because of evolution.
And you might notice that in the title of my
(11:27):
book Morality, Freedom and Capital.
Speaker 5 (11:30):
Capital is kind of different. It stands out.
Speaker 6 (11:33):
But my definition of capital is simply knowledge and the
manifestations of knowledge, and that's how we differ from nature
through our knowledge. But so capital, as we've developed it
(11:54):
through through time has really designed who we are. And
it was about two and a half million years ago
that we came up that humans came up with the
first capital, and that was some kind of a scraping
tool that helped people increase their knowledge in life. And
(12:22):
so that's where it all began, like two and a
half million years ago. Yeah, but we can continually increase
our capital or our knowledge, and well it go hits.
That's a long story, of course, but I go ahead.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
Indeed, indeed, just as you mentioned, you know, freedom and
morality or both go hand in hand and are both cohesive.
But with our evolution, you know, you said that it
is our responsible to our responsibility to replace energy.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
Believe that. I believe that as well. It's just the
way that our evolution works.
Speaker 5 (13:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (13:13):
Originally, you know, energy, as they say, had a simple
design it it flowed to regions of lesser energy. But
we're somewhere along the line. Billions of years ago, some
simple molecules hijacked energy, and that became life because the
(13:35):
energy that was hijacked was for the purpose of living.
And it's very very intriguing. But we still don't know
any more about it than that. But does that help
to answer the question, well.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
If evolution builds countless morality, how should societies maintain that cohesion?
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Yeah?
Speaker 6 (14:04):
Okay, well, you know on the cover of the book,
I have the three i mean, I'm sorry, the four
concentric circles showing there's individual morality at the center, and
then the next level outside of that is called group morality,
(14:25):
and that's you know, our relatives and friends, and then
the next one out is species morality, which is just
the human species, and then the farthest out is the
ecosystem morality.
Speaker 5 (14:42):
And it was.
Speaker 6 (14:44):
Until the Industrial Revolution about eighteen eighty roughly that we
paid attention to the ecosystem because the Industrial Revolution brought
a lot of.
Speaker 5 (14:58):
Durdan you know, and the use of you know, oil
and whatever.
Speaker 6 (15:06):
So that was the first time we realized we had
to pay attention to the ecosystem. But our individual morality
is the basic one, and it's really a self interest
and we have to have that self interest of replacing
energy we go nowhere. But our group morality, you know,
(15:29):
probably came along when humans were first evolved and that was,
you know, roughly fifteen million years ago. And our group
helps us survive, We help each other. But so the
individual morality and the group morality have been with us
(15:51):
for a long, long long time. But it wasn't until
about seven thousand years ago that species morality became extremely
important because different groups were meeting with each other and
strangers and migration. Capital reached point where migration was increasing
(16:17):
and we could interact with other humans, and we haven't
had to do that until roughly seven thousand years ago,
and that's when our trouble really began because we had
not developed any morality because there was no need to.
(16:40):
And look at the world today. It's estimated that today
we kill each other. About a billion people have been
killed because they are strangers and we don't know how
to behave with each other.
Speaker 5 (16:54):
So the basic.
Speaker 6 (16:56):
Morality like individual morality and group are in our genes
and they've been there for a long, long long time.
Speaker 5 (17:05):
And you know, for instance, we do get.
Speaker 6 (17:07):
Along with our group very well, but we don't get
along with our species at all. And even in our
brain are amygdala is a part of the brain that
warns us about strange situations, including strangers. And so this
(17:28):
is something that we just have to work at. But
people well, because free freedom is innate, even on a
simple level.
Speaker 5 (17:41):
We each were evolved. All of us were evolved by
our environment.
Speaker 6 (17:48):
And you can see how that is true when you
look around the world. And it was one hundred thousand
years ago that the first home, first group of our
species left Africa to.
Speaker 5 (18:04):
Go to the Middle East.
Speaker 6 (18:06):
And as they say, that was about one hundred thousand
years ago and thirty thousand years went by until the first.
Speaker 5 (18:18):
People left the Middle East to go east.
Speaker 6 (18:21):
And those are what we call Mongoloids, all of Asians
and so on.
Speaker 5 (18:27):
And then.
Speaker 6 (18:30):
You know another thirty thousand of where years went by
roughly that some people went west and we became the
Caucasians because we went west by moving up through the Caucasus,
the group near the between the Caspian Sea and the Mediterranean.
(18:51):
So and all of this has been enabled by capitol.
So we do differ the because of our environments, and
that alone should we have trouble with that.
Speaker 5 (19:07):
Of course, but we're working through it.
Speaker 6 (19:12):
But the morality of the species is the one that
is still haunting us. And you just look open up
the paper and see what all the problems are worldwide,
So I can't Morality is not just something we dreamed
(19:33):
up and we consider it to be universal, but it's
in our genes and it's not universal. It depends on
the environment that designed us. In fact, I kind of
say frequently that the optimum environment for an individual is
the environment that designed it.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
Indeed, I believe in your book you argue that.
Speaker 3 (19:59):
Our reality hasn't caught up with capital. What is capital
in your terms? And how has it evolved.
Speaker 6 (20:08):
Yeah, okay, it's capital, as I did say earlier, it's freedom,
it's knowledge and the manifestations of knowledge, which is all
kinds of tools and equipment. And you know, we're very
familiar with how that has evolved. And at first it
just the simple capital probably helped people migrate around the
(20:30):
earth better than they did. But now it has enabled
us to interact probably more than an awful lot anyway,
and we just don't know how to do it. And
what's even worse, we didn't know. We didn't know. In
other words, the morality for our species has not developed
(20:53):
yet and we didn't even know that. So we have
a problem.
Speaker 5 (20:59):
But I don't know.
Speaker 6 (21:00):
What the solution is, but it helps at least to
know that we have a problem.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
Indeed, indeed another problem.
Speaker 3 (21:09):
And this is probably one of your most thought provoking claims,
is that when governments assume our responsibilities, they take our rights.
Speaker 5 (21:20):
Yes, right, that.
Speaker 6 (21:23):
It just happens all the time, and it keeps happening.
And you know, throughout the book, I didn't want to
I just wanted to learn, and that's how why I
wrote the book. But the only time I felt a
little bit of engagement and felt like preaching a little
(21:46):
bit is with what you're just talking about, and that
is responsibility, but the rights and responsibility and when governments
whom our responsibility for us.
Speaker 5 (22:02):
We lose our rights.
Speaker 6 (22:04):
It just happens all the time and it probably will
not change. But people, because of entropy, we get interpiece
that continue, a loss of energy, and we get tired,
we get tired of working, and we want help and
we turn to whoever will help us. And I think
(22:25):
it's because of entropy that that's the reason that we
are looking for help, and we look to governments unfortunately,
and that's just doesn't work either. We just have to
be responsible for ourselves.
Speaker 3 (22:42):
What responsibilities do you think we should be reclaiming?
Speaker 6 (22:49):
But just for our own life and our family and
so and friends. We just haven't been doing that very well.
And I know sometimes it's very very difficult, of course, but.
Speaker 3 (23:10):
Anyway, yeah, yeah, no, no, I totally agree with you,
especially when the government takes over inside of a nucleus
family or for the Western world, keeping the family broken
(23:30):
or split just for like monetary benefits or living expenses.
And that's a lot of personal family responsibility that claims
communities neighborhoods.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
We're supposed to be in the beginning.
Speaker 6 (23:50):
Right, Yeah, yeah, Well, I think a little bit of
health is good, you know.
Speaker 5 (23:57):
I look at that.
Speaker 6 (24:02):
I look at competition and cooperation, and they are two
kind of competing moral behaviors, and cooperation is good. I
say that cooperation helps us get along, but competition helps
us get ahead because through competition we will really learn
(24:24):
a lot, absolutely constly.
Speaker 5 (24:34):
But you know, we can see it.
Speaker 6 (24:36):
In our lives here in America. How governments Originally they
serve the purpose of protecting us from outsiders or strangers,
but as time goes along, they assume more and more
and more responsibility and we give it up. And that's
a problem, a big problem, because.
Speaker 5 (24:59):
We we really.
Speaker 6 (25:01):
Are designed should be designed to take care of ourselves.
Speaker 3 (25:07):
Absolutely, Martin, Where can our listeners connect with you on
the internet and pick up a copy of your book?
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Well?
Speaker 6 (25:16):
Great, well, thank you very much. You've been a very
very good interviewer. I appreciate that. Thank you, y very
good questions.
Speaker 5 (25:26):
Okay, well, thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (25:29):
In all right, well, listeners, I will have the link
to purchase Martin's book Understanding Morality, Freedom and Capital and
the description of this episode and in the show notes.
So all you guys have to do is just click
the link and you'll be right at the book. What
(25:50):
an insightful conversation today with Martin J. Miles as he
walked us through evolutional morality. Also you'll find in a
book there is Mathematics of freedom and the challenge of
living in a capital drench world.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
We unpacked everything from binary.
Speaker 3 (26:12):
Oppices to biological morality and how rethinking our assumptions can
help preserve what is truly means to be free. So Martin,
thank you for challenging us to think differently. And to
everyone listening, subscribe to Vigilantes Radio, follow our guests, and
leave a review.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
If this episode spand.
Speaker 3 (26:31):
It you're thinking, you can support us by subscribing, and
be sure to share this conversation with someone.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
Who's ready to dive deeper. Until next time, stay curious
and stay free. Thank you so much, Martin.
Speaker 5 (26:44):
Sure, thank you, Bye bye, bye.
Speaker 3 (26:48):
Peace to all. My name is Deni and I am
the host of Vigilantes Radio Live. I think that we
are beyond just asking cool questions and getting cool responses.
I think that we are here as creatives to provide
(27:09):
an example that you can do things different outside of
expectations because some of us simply were not born into
the club.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
But there is perhaps a.
Speaker 3 (27:22):
Door window or backgate that we can leave a clue
for you to get into. Life is short, but there
are plenty of moments to try and get it right.
Pursuing your dreams and learning from mistakes may be tough,
but regret it's tougher to book your interview. Email us
(27:45):
at V radio at only onemediagroup dot com.
Speaker 4 (27:49):
That's a V as in victorious.
Speaker 3 (27:53):
Or visit only onemediagroup dot com. I'm counting on you,
Heaven all are counting on you to step into your
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Speaker 1 (28:23):
You and now listening to vigil Lances Radio, the people's
choice for quality interviews, art, music and heart subex hosted
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are available for free download at www. Dots only, one
media greet dot com
You are now listening to Vigilantes Radio, presented by the
only One Media Group. This is the people's choice, but
quality interviews, celebrities and special guests, hosted by Demitrius Denny Reynolds.
Call in to join the mix at seven oh one,
eight oh one, nine eight one three. For the complete
archive of episodes, visit only onemediagroup dot com and be
(00:23):
sure to like us on Facebook. At Vigilantes Radio. We
welcome all enjoy the show. Ladies and gentlemen. Please welcome
your host Demitrius who Demi Black Reynolds. Enjoy the show.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Hey, hey, hey, good morning, Good morning. What's going on? Guys.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
Welcome to another incredible episode of Vigilantes Radio live right
here on iHeartRadio, and I am your.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Host, Deanie.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
We have a very special guest for you, guys, so
you definitely want to stick around for that. But I
do have to say that this particular episode is pre
recorded and I can't wait to deliver it to your
inboxes and for you guys who subscribe to the show,
you'll be the first to know. Before I invite my
guests on, I do want to say, you know, it's
(01:18):
the moment that you begin when you begin to take action,
the moment you truly make the commitment, something remarkable happens.
Momentum shifts in your favor. Problems are transformed into opportunities,
Obstacles are transformed into pathways. Just a little bit of
(01:41):
initial effort and a positive direction can completely change your perspective.
And when your perspective changes, the whole world looks new,
different and full of promising possibilities. You cannot get all
the way to where you want to be, and just
one step, but just one step, you can turn all
(02:03):
the way around and begin heading towards that goal, that dream,
that place you truly want to be. Point yourself in
a positive direction, and you will immediately begin to experience
the benefits. Any achievement can bring value long before you
reach it, as long as you are continually reaching towards it.
(02:24):
And on this very day, your most treasured dream can't
begin to bring.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Richness to your life.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
But you have to take that first solid step, and
then you'll see how dramatically everything.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Else can change.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
My name is Kashdini, and change is possible. Are you ready?
Are you ready?
Speaker 4 (02:55):
Are you ready? And are you ready? Well, let's go,
Let's go.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
All right, all right again, welcome to the show. You're
listening to VRL.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
That's Vigilantes Radio live right here on Iheart's Radio, and
my name is Deani. I am your host today. Our
interviews are designed to go beyond the music, news, books, art, acting, films, technology, education, entrepreneurship, entertainment, spirituality,
and sometimes even past that thing that we call the ego.
(03:35):
Our interviews are designed to go behind the scenes into
the minds of these incredible human beings, you know, the
ones that are out there given it.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
They're all for me, for you, and for the world.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
Well, ladies and gentlemen, today we welcome a visionary mind
whose lifelong journey through mathematics, philosophy, and technology has accumulated
in a new understanding of morality.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Martin J.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
Miles a retired mathematician and US Navy veteran whose groundbreaking
work at n IST and NAA has shaped national standards
and digital networks. His book, Understanding Morality, Freedom and Capital
challenges everything we think we know about moral behavior. With precision,
(04:27):
insights and integrity. He breaks new ground for how we
understand ourselves. And with that, let's say welcome friend to
Martin J.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Miles. Good morning, good morning.
Speaker 5 (04:41):
Good morning. This is Martin Miles.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
How are you today?
Speaker 5 (04:46):
Just fine? How are you?
Speaker 2 (04:48):
I'm great, I'm great. Thank you for asking. So again,
welcome to the show.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
Before we really just dive into everything, what's been on
your heart and mind lately these days?
Speaker 5 (05:01):
Oh, I don't know. The news is so active, it seems, and.
Speaker 6 (05:08):
I'm very happy and I'm just watching and I want
to contribute to what I can.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
Indeed, indeed, so let's start with the big one. What
inspired you to write Understanding Morality, Freedom, and Capital at
this point in your life?
Speaker 6 (05:27):
Well, about five years ago, I wrote a very large
book called The Nature of Economics. And I've always been
interested in how what nature is and how we might
deviate from it. And I noticed that morality was cropping
(05:49):
up everywhere throughout the book. So when I finished the
book on the Nature of Economics, I write away began
to study morality more closely, and I was I don't
think I've ever written a book that policed me more
than this one. And I found a lot of things
that I just didn't expect to find. And I think
(06:12):
that's always good. You know, people think when you write
a book, you know, everything about it, but often you
do know a lot about it. But the book is
really a learning process. It uncovers a lot of things
that you just didn't know. And that was true with
this book.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
Indeed, with this book you proposed that morality is innate
and not learned.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
What led you to this conclusion.
Speaker 5 (06:43):
The data, the information. You know.
Speaker 6 (06:49):
The universe was formed about thirteen point eight billion years ago,
and one of the fundamentals of the universe is the
the laws of thermodynamics, and the law of entropy.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Was the key to this.
Speaker 6 (07:13):
And uh entropy is a continual loss of energy to
regions of lesser energy. Now, what what that has means
for us is that we have to keep striving to
replace energy all throughout.
Speaker 5 (07:31):
Our whole lives, and our life ends.
Speaker 6 (07:38):
If we don't do that, if we don't get the
energy that has been lost and that we need throughout
our life. And one way to measure that is something
called auto correlation. It's Marcos was the person who developed
(07:59):
them method of auto correlation, which means how steady is
something to the individual. And if we don't replace energy
when we need to, we die. So one of the
most moral things we can do is to maintain our lives,
and that is through a continual replacement of energy. That's
(08:23):
a basic life. Has coursed a lot more than that,
but that's without that, nothing is important, yes, And so
I noticed that one thing that has plagued people through
throughout history apparently is how morality and freedom are related.
(08:47):
And there was a noted economist that in the East
who said that what we need to do is establish
the relationship between morality and freedom. And I believe that
(09:09):
an act behavior is moral if and only if it
increases our probability of freedom. And so I did establish
the link between morality and freedom.
Speaker 5 (09:24):
And I was so pleased with that.
Speaker 6 (09:26):
But that's only the beginning, of course. But I think, well,
we can go from there or do you have any
other question there?
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Sure? What pleased you pleased you to most about that?
Speaker 5 (09:41):
Well?
Speaker 6 (09:43):
I started looking into you know, nature as her morality,
and as I say, the continual replacement of energy is
the most basic moral behavior. And I looked at euclid
for example, in his his Euclidean geometry, and he developed
(10:09):
the system of axioms, which are very brief, simple statements that.
Speaker 5 (10:15):
Are so simple that we don't need to prove them,
they're just obvious.
Speaker 6 (10:24):
But the axioms have to be independent of each other.
Axioms have to be consistent with each other, and they
have to be complete. And I just started to apply
this to the propensities for.
Speaker 5 (10:41):
Moral behavior.
Speaker 6 (10:44):
And you see, our innate behavior has existed in humans
for like fifteen million years and the well, but our
(11:05):
moral system is not complete because of evolution. So we
really don't. It's not as a completely logical system as
axioms would be, but only because it's incomplete because of evolution.
And you might notice that in the title of my
(11:27):
book Morality, Freedom and Capital.
Speaker 5 (11:30):
Capital is kind of different. It stands out.
Speaker 6 (11:33):
But my definition of capital is simply knowledge and the
manifestations of knowledge, and that's how we differ from nature
through our knowledge. But so capital, as we've developed it
(11:54):
through through time has really designed who we are. And
it was about two and a half million years ago
that we came up that humans came up with the
first capital, and that was some kind of a scraping
tool that helped people increase their knowledge in life. And
(12:22):
so that's where it all began, like two and a
half million years ago. Yeah, but we can continually increase
our capital or our knowledge, and well it go hits.
That's a long story, of course, but I go ahead.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
Indeed, indeed, just as you mentioned, you know, freedom and
morality or both go hand in hand and are both cohesive.
But with our evolution, you know, you said that it
is our responsible to our responsibility to replace energy.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
Believe that. I believe that as well. It's just the
way that our evolution works.
Speaker 5 (13:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (13:13):
Originally, you know, energy, as they say, had a simple
design it it flowed to regions of lesser energy. But
we're somewhere along the line. Billions of years ago, some
simple molecules hijacked energy, and that became life because the
(13:35):
energy that was hijacked was for the purpose of living.
And it's very very intriguing. But we still don't know
any more about it than that. But does that help
to answer the question, well.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
If evolution builds countless morality, how should societies maintain that cohesion?
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Yeah?
Speaker 6 (14:04):
Okay, well, you know on the cover of the book,
I have the three i mean, I'm sorry, the four
concentric circles showing there's individual morality at the center, and
then the next level outside of that is called group morality,
(14:25):
and that's you know, our relatives and friends, and then
the next one out is species morality, which is just
the human species, and then the farthest out is the
ecosystem morality.
Speaker 5 (14:42):
And it was.
Speaker 6 (14:44):
Until the Industrial Revolution about eighteen eighty roughly that we
paid attention to the ecosystem because the Industrial Revolution brought
a lot of.
Speaker 5 (14:58):
Durdan you know, and the use of you know, oil
and whatever.
Speaker 6 (15:06):
So that was the first time we realized we had
to pay attention to the ecosystem. But our individual morality
is the basic one, and it's really a self interest
and we have to have that self interest of replacing
energy we go nowhere. But our group morality, you know,
(15:29):
probably came along when humans were first evolved and that was,
you know, roughly fifteen million years ago. And our group
helps us survive, We help each other. But so the
individual morality and the group morality have been with us
(15:51):
for a long, long long time. But it wasn't until
about seven thousand years ago that species morality became extremely
important because different groups were meeting with each other and
strangers and migration. Capital reached point where migration was increasing
(16:17):
and we could interact with other humans, and we haven't
had to do that until roughly seven thousand years ago,
and that's when our trouble really began because we had
not developed any morality because there was no need to.
(16:40):
And look at the world today. It's estimated that today
we kill each other. About a billion people have been
killed because they are strangers and we don't know how
to behave with each other.
Speaker 5 (16:54):
So the basic.
Speaker 6 (16:56):
Morality like individual morality and group are in our genes
and they've been there for a long, long long time.
Speaker 5 (17:05):
And you know, for instance, we do get.
Speaker 6 (17:07):
Along with our group very well, but we don't get
along with our species at all. And even in our
brain are amygdala is a part of the brain that
warns us about strange situations, including strangers. And so this
(17:28):
is something that we just have to work at. But
people well, because free freedom is innate, even on a
simple level.
Speaker 5 (17:41):
We each were evolved. All of us were evolved by
our environment.
Speaker 6 (17:48):
And you can see how that is true when you
look around the world. And it was one hundred thousand
years ago that the first home, first group of our
species left Africa to.
Speaker 5 (18:04):
Go to the Middle East.
Speaker 6 (18:06):
And as they say, that was about one hundred thousand
years ago and thirty thousand years went by until the first.
Speaker 5 (18:18):
People left the Middle East to go east.
Speaker 6 (18:21):
And those are what we call Mongoloids, all of Asians
and so on.
Speaker 5 (18:27):
And then.
Speaker 6 (18:30):
You know another thirty thousand of where years went by
roughly that some people went west and we became the
Caucasians because we went west by moving up through the Caucasus,
the group near the between the Caspian Sea and the Mediterranean.
(18:51):
So and all of this has been enabled by capitol.
So we do differ the because of our environments, and
that alone should we have trouble with that.
Speaker 5 (19:07):
Of course, but we're working through it.
Speaker 6 (19:12):
But the morality of the species is the one that
is still haunting us. And you just look open up
the paper and see what all the problems are worldwide,
So I can't Morality is not just something we dreamed
(19:33):
up and we consider it to be universal, but it's
in our genes and it's not universal. It depends on
the environment that designed us. In fact, I kind of
say frequently that the optimum environment for an individual is
the environment that designed it.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
Indeed, I believe in your book you argue that.
Speaker 3 (19:59):
Our reality hasn't caught up with capital. What is capital
in your terms? And how has it evolved.
Speaker 6 (20:08):
Yeah, okay, it's capital, as I did say earlier, it's freedom,
it's knowledge and the manifestations of knowledge, which is all
kinds of tools and equipment. And you know, we're very
familiar with how that has evolved. And at first it
just the simple capital probably helped people migrate around the
(20:30):
earth better than they did. But now it has enabled
us to interact probably more than an awful lot anyway,
and we just don't know how to do it. And
what's even worse, we didn't know. We didn't know. In
other words, the morality for our species has not developed
(20:53):
yet and we didn't even know that. So we have
a problem.
Speaker 5 (20:59):
But I don't know.
Speaker 6 (21:00):
What the solution is, but it helps at least to
know that we have a problem.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
Indeed, indeed another problem.
Speaker 3 (21:09):
And this is probably one of your most thought provoking claims,
is that when governments assume our responsibilities, they take our rights.
Speaker 5 (21:20):
Yes, right, that.
Speaker 6 (21:23):
It just happens all the time, and it keeps happening.
And you know, throughout the book, I didn't want to
I just wanted to learn, and that's how why I
wrote the book. But the only time I felt a
little bit of engagement and felt like preaching a little
(21:46):
bit is with what you're just talking about, and that
is responsibility, but the rights and responsibility and when governments
whom our responsibility for us.
Speaker 5 (22:02):
We lose our rights.
Speaker 6 (22:04):
It just happens all the time and it probably will
not change. But people, because of entropy, we get interpiece
that continue, a loss of energy, and we get tired,
we get tired of working, and we want help and
we turn to whoever will help us. And I think
(22:25):
it's because of entropy that that's the reason that we
are looking for help, and we look to governments unfortunately,
and that's just doesn't work either. We just have to
be responsible for ourselves.
Speaker 3 (22:42):
What responsibilities do you think we should be reclaiming?
Speaker 6 (22:49):
But just for our own life and our family and
so and friends. We just haven't been doing that very well.
And I know sometimes it's very very difficult, of course, but.
Speaker 3 (23:10):
Anyway, yeah, yeah, no, no, I totally agree with you,
especially when the government takes over inside of a nucleus
family or for the Western world, keeping the family broken
(23:30):
or split just for like monetary benefits or living expenses.
And that's a lot of personal family responsibility that claims
communities neighborhoods.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
We're supposed to be in the beginning.
Speaker 6 (23:50):
Right, Yeah, yeah, Well, I think a little bit of
health is good, you know.
Speaker 5 (23:57):
I look at that.
Speaker 6 (24:02):
I look at competition and cooperation, and they are two
kind of competing moral behaviors, and cooperation is good. I
say that cooperation helps us get along, but competition helps
us get ahead because through competition we will really learn
(24:24):
a lot, absolutely constly.
Speaker 5 (24:34):
But you know, we can see it.
Speaker 6 (24:36):
In our lives here in America. How governments Originally they
serve the purpose of protecting us from outsiders or strangers,
but as time goes along, they assume more and more
and more responsibility and we give it up. And that's
a problem, a big problem, because.
Speaker 5 (24:59):
We we really.
Speaker 6 (25:01):
Are designed should be designed to take care of ourselves.
Speaker 3 (25:07):
Absolutely, Martin, Where can our listeners connect with you on
the internet and pick up a copy of your book?
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Well?
Speaker 6 (25:16):
Great, well, thank you very much. You've been a very
very good interviewer. I appreciate that. Thank you, y very
good questions.
Speaker 5 (25:26):
Okay, well, thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (25:29):
In all right, well, listeners, I will have the link
to purchase Martin's book Understanding Morality, Freedom and Capital and
the description of this episode and in the show notes.
So all you guys have to do is just click
the link and you'll be right at the book. What
(25:50):
an insightful conversation today with Martin J. Miles as he
walked us through evolutional morality. Also you'll find in a
book there is Mathematics of freedom and the challenge of
living in a capital drench world.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
We unpacked everything from binary.
Speaker 3 (26:12):
Oppices to biological morality and how rethinking our assumptions can
help preserve what is truly means to be free. So Martin,
thank you for challenging us to think differently. And to
everyone listening, subscribe to Vigilantes Radio, follow our guests, and
leave a review.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
If this episode spand.
Speaker 3 (26:31):
It you're thinking, you can support us by subscribing, and
be sure to share this conversation with someone.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
Who's ready to dive deeper. Until next time, stay curious
and stay free. Thank you so much, Martin.
Speaker 5 (26:44):
Sure, thank you, Bye bye, bye.
Speaker 3 (26:48):
Peace to all. My name is Deni and I am
the host of Vigilantes Radio Live. I think that we
are beyond just asking cool questions and getting cool responses.
I think that we are here as creatives to provide
(27:09):
an example that you can do things different outside of
expectations because some of us simply were not born into
the club.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
But there is perhaps a.
Speaker 3 (27:22):
Door window or backgate that we can leave a clue
for you to get into. Life is short, but there
are plenty of moments to try and get it right.
Pursuing your dreams and learning from mistakes may be tough,
but regret it's tougher to book your interview. Email us
(27:45):
at V radio at only onemediagroup dot com.
Speaker 4 (27:49):
That's a V as in victorious.
Speaker 3 (27:53):
Or visit only onemediagroup dot com. I'm counting on you,
Heaven all are counting on you to step into your
purpose and your passion. You are listening to Vigilantes Radio
live on iHeartRadio, providing you with an opportunity to dive deeper.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
You and now listening to vigil Lances Radio, the people's
choice for quality interviews, art, music and heart subex hosted
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are available for free download at www. Dots only, one
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