November 19, 2025 • 33 mins
🗽 Author, organizer, and public service veteran Tony Aguilar joins Coach Dini to discuss his powerful new book Is America Broken or Has It Always Been This Way? 📘 With over 30 years in community development, affordable housing, environmental action, and leadership training, Tony brings a grounded perspective on inequality, culture, politics, and the forces keeping everyday Americans stuck. We explore polarization, optimism, civic responsibility, and the hard truth behind why systems resist change. A timely, bold, and necessary conversation for anyone who cares about the future of the country. 🇺🇸🔥
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Vigilantes Radio Live! by The Only One Media Group ℗©2025
Episode Credits:
Produced, edited, mixed, and written by Demetrius "Whodini Blak" Reynolds, Sr.
Artwork designed by Demetrius "Whodini Blak" Reynolds, Sr.
Show Introduction by Kate
Segment jingles composed & produced by Demetrius "Whodini Blak" Reynolds, Sr.
Additional music licensed through 7th Sign Recordings
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
You are now listening to Vigilantes Radio, presented by the
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Call in to join the mix at seven oh one,
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(00:23):
shuls like us on Facebook at Vigilantes Radio. We welcome all,
enjoy the show. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome your host
Demitrius who Demi Black Reynolds. Enjoy the show.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, and thank you as always for checking
out another episode of Vigilantes Radio live right here on
iHeartRadio and I am your host, Gining. I do have
to say that this particular episode is pre record and
I can't wait to deliver it to your inboxes and
(01:04):
for you guys who subscribe to the show, you'll be
the first to know and I always appreciate that. Before
inviting our special guests, I do want to say that
this is the frequency of the fearless. You know, every
generation asks a version of the same question, what is
(01:25):
happening to my America? And every generation discovers an uncomfortable truth.
Nothing changes unless we do. Our guest today has spent
over thirty years inside the engine room of public service,
watching the gap between promise and practice, writing and contract,
(01:48):
hell and reopen. He challenges us not to accept the
script that we were given are inherited, but to rewrite
it with the courage, with the clarity, and of compassion.
You're not just here for a talk show. And this
isn't just radio. This is revival for your mind, body,
(02:09):
and spirit. This is Vigilantes Radio Live. My name is
Coach Deani, and change is possible.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
Are you ready?
Speaker 4 (02:24):
Are you ready? Are you radio radio? Are you ready? Well,
let's go, then'll go?
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Then all right, all right again, welcome to the show.
You're listening to vr L. That is Vigilantes Radio Live
right here on iHeart Radio, and I am your host, Deani.
Our interviews are designed to go beyond the music, news, books, art, acting, films, technology, education, entrepreneurship, entertainment, spirituality,
(03:06):
and sometimes even past the thing that we call the ego.
Our interviews are designed to go behind the scenes into
the minds of these brilliant people, you know, the ones
who are out there giving it. They're all for me,
for you, and for the world. Well, ladies and gentlemen.
Born in the South Bronx and shaped by decades of
(03:27):
hands on public service, Tony Agler is a community organizer, author,
social commentator, and national voice on justice and equality. With
over thirty years working in affordable housing, economic development, environmental
cleanup and leadership training, Tony brings a rare mix of
(03:51):
lived experience and historical insight.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
His new book, Is American Broken Or Has It Always
Been This Way?
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Digs into the roots of inequality and the myths we
clean to.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
So please join me in saying.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Welcome friend to Tony Ycler.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
Hey, welcome to the show.
Speaker 5 (04:12):
Tony, Thank you to Metrius, and thanks for having me
on the show.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
Appreciate it, absolutely man, absolutely so.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Before we really just dive into everything, we always ask
this opening question, and that is what's been on your
heart and mind lately.
Speaker 5 (04:33):
Well, I think, like most people or a large segment
of the country, you know what we're seeing now in
terms of immigration and people being disappear and so to speak,
and deported and citizens rounded up. I think we have
a problem. And I think when we see things that
(04:53):
are symbolic but they are symbol of a problem. You know,
the White House essentially being torn down, in monuments clause
being broken every day. You know, MBS coming to the
White House and things of that nature. So it's a lot.
I would say that to my heart in terms of
(05:14):
it seems as though we're headed in a direction which
many people feel that we may be able to may
not be able to turn away from. I disagree with that,
but it does seem like we are living in dark times.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
Absolutely, Tony.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
There's so many things going on in this country of
America that I don't even know what to focus on really,
to be quite honest, I don't know which issue to,
you know, really just hone in and care about, because
there's so many things happening all at once. I'll tell
you something that just happened recently. I was at a
gas station and it was like a scene out of
(05:54):
a movie, Like ten dark SUVs pulled up to the
gas station. He's just jumping out with army guns. They
storm into the gas station like everybody's just skadadled because
they didn't.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
Know what was happening.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
And and and ironically, I get a job offer from
Ice asking me if I want to be an agent.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
I'm like, oh no.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
No, I mean I feel strongly about issues like that,
but to be a part of that, I don't think
that's my cup of tea.
Speaker 3 (06:26):
How do you feel, Tony?
Speaker 5 (06:28):
I think Number one, we have to realize a couple
of things. This is not the first time that this
has happened. What's happening now is not new. We have
deployed people before, we have rounded people up before, We
rounded up Japanese Americans put them in interminent camps. So
this is not new. It may be new to a
(06:49):
you know, the new the young generation, but this is
not a new issue that the nation had dealt with.
One of the problems we have dealt with over the
years is who is a real American? Who can be
a real American, and who should be allowed to stay.
We see right now that we have an administration that
(07:09):
has adopted, so to speak, a vision of America that
is anti black, anti gay, and is pro white. And
there's nothing wrong in terms of being pro white, but
the idea exclusion of other people. So we have the
you know, getting rid of DEI. We have all of this,
(07:33):
and let us not kid ourselves the idea that we
have National Guard and ice and all of that in
our streets has more to do with what's going to
happen in twenty twenty six and twenty twenty eight than
it does to do what it has what it has
to do with now. This is just in my opinion,
and I think a lot of people agree with this.
(07:54):
This is kind of an experiment to see what would
happen if if we sent all these people in can
we get the population used to this? Because one thing
about people in human nature is that we can get
used to anything, and at some point we would simply
become numb to the idea of ice agents and to
(08:17):
the idea of the National Guard and the militarization of
police forces. And that's I think we have to really
fight against that so that we don't become numb to it,
so to speak, so that it becomes part of out
a normal, abnormal routine of the day. And I think
that is the most dangerous thing that I see happening
(08:40):
in America right now.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
Indeed, Tony Indeed, So the question is is American broken
or hasn't always been this way?
Speaker 5 (08:56):
I think it's a combination of the two. As I said,
We've always have these issues, and as they're right about
in the book, you know, we've had issues of race
for hundreds of years. Issued the culture wars have been
going on for decades. So immigration, this issue has been
out there for years. We've had the Chinese Exclusion Act,
(09:19):
which essentially barred Chinese workers from coming to the United
States for about ten years. We had a mass deportation
of Mexicans under the Hooven administration. Now we're seeing that again.
We've always had the notion of wealth inequality has been
going on for decades of not hundreds of years. Even
(09:40):
during the so called Gilded Age, we had a huge
wealth discrepancy within the population. So in one respect, this
is not new. The question is how do you create
safeguards to make sure that it doesn't happen again. And
one of the things that I critique the Biden administration
(10:02):
for he ran on the issue of democracy and that
we are at an inflection point. But the reality is
that the Biden administration did absolutely nothing to protect the
nation from this happening again. So the question is going
to be whoever comes in in twenty twenty eight, and
hopefully there will be an election, is what will be
(10:24):
the guard rails that people will put up there in
order to make sure that this will never happen again.
It's going to be don't then we will simply move
towards what some people consider to be an authoritarian government,
which is not against our constitution. And people need to
understand that that right now, what is happening is legal,
(10:49):
and that's the problem. And I think you need to
have those safeguards, or you need to have a split
of government between Democrats and Republicans to make sure that
that does not happen again.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
Yeah, Tony, I am tired of living through these social
experiments and research panel groups that I didn't sign up for.
Is there someone besides yourself fighting for us in the Senate?
Speaker 5 (11:14):
I think so. You know, certainly you have church people
who are out there now getting arrested, getting beat up,
so they are speaking and I'm talking about the mainline
denomination of churches, people like Bishop William Barber, Bishop Mary
and Buddy from the Episcopal Church. Certainly, Pope Leo has
(11:36):
been speaking out and today just critique the Trump administration again.
So I think there are people out there. I think
the Democrats, depending upon who we're talking about, are trying
to fight back. But the reality is we have to
understand that in our system of government, the democrats at
this stage of the game really have no power. Only
(12:00):
power they have is the voice and to speak up
and press conferences and the life. So in order to
get back to some sense of normalcy, you're going to
have to have divided government, which we do not have now,
(12:21):
and that's the only thing that will save us going
further along this role of authoritarianism. Now, the other thing
I would say that there probably also needs to be
a wake up Paul two folks within the business community,
academia as well as the legal profession, as well as
the medium, because a lot of media has simply not
(12:45):
taking the hands off approach, but it's a kid glove
approach that they've done, and I think that is dangerous
as well. This is something that happened obviously in Turkey,
you know, with Ernawan, also in Hungary with or Robot.
So I think the media has to get a spine
(13:07):
and to really start talking back. I mean some of
the shows are doing, like MSNBC and other programs, but
I think there has to be more of that. ABC, CBS,
at NBC. I think have to begin to show some spine,
otherwise you're gonna lose your democracy. I mean, the Washington
Post says democracy dies in the doctors. Well, Washington Post
(13:29):
and the La Times both had pulled their endorsement of
Kamala Harris. Why do they do that in order not
to go through the wrath of the president administration. So
I think media needs to show some backbone, which a
lot of them have not shown to date. And you
know what turned out.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
I don't think we're going to get that because they
are owned by as you mentioned earlier, you know, certain
groups who the focus has been on to make sure
everything is kosher and gravy if I can use those
two words, And you know, I don't think we'll get
the real deal. We may need some independent media coverage to.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
Get the message across. What do you think?
Speaker 5 (14:17):
Well, absolutely, And I think that's why you have, you know,
podcasts such as yours. You have independent radio stations, you
have independent magazines which can fill in the void a
little bit. At the footprint that they have is not
at this stage big enough to really hold the administration accountable.
(14:40):
So even if you take the fact even in newspapers,
quite frankly, we're not a reading country anymore. You know,
we don't really read that much anymore, sadly so, and
I think, but that's a problem that we need to address.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Yes, yes, indeed, so speaking of reading, well, before we
get into that, you spent decades in public service, from
housing to economic development. How have those frontline experiences shaped
your understanding of America's deeper issues.
Speaker 5 (15:14):
Well, it says to me that if you organize enough people,
not necessarily around a particular issue, but around the core
idea of building power, that you can make a difference
in your community. Now, I have to admit that it's
harder to do on a national level, but in terms
(15:35):
of a local level, if you organize again for power,
you can make a difference. So when it comes to housing,
economic development, and you know some of the things I
did in terms of living wage in New Jersey, economic
development and Queens housing in the South Bronx, if you
build a four and you around it institutions, you can
(16:04):
have power. You won't always win, but you can't make
a difference in how things are run. And I found
that to be the case for for many years. Tony.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
There's a particular chapter title that I absolutely love is
titled we have met the enemy, and you're like, what,
I don't know the fox get into hin house?
Speaker 3 (16:30):
You know, But who is this enemy?
Speaker 2 (16:34):
And how does that redefine how people see personal responsibility?
Speaker 5 (16:44):
The enemy, as I define it is us, because the
reality is we are like we are in the h
R Department of the nation. We decide who's going to
serve and that doesn't mean we always get it right.
But if you look at our voting patterns of the population,
(17:07):
of the voting population stays home consistently, even more in
terms of you know, congressional racist. So that means that
you know, a minority of people are decigning which direction
the country is going to head in. But we also
need to be aware of what I would call looking
(17:28):
for the charismatic leader, and I think that is their
problem we do. You know, it's nice to have the
characs magic leader, but charas mague leaders will always at
the end of the day disappoint. You know, there there's
a Christmas song called lyric Town of Bethlehem, And where
do the lyrics goes that all our hopes and fears
of all the years are met v tonight, meaning that
(17:50):
we put all our hopes and we resolve all our
faars through the one, and so we look for this
one person, and one person simply cannot do it. So
I think we need to really look at this in
a more holistic way, just starting from the bottom up.
And that means whether it's the mayor's race, whether it's Congress,
(18:13):
whether it's local das, whether it's sheriffs or up to
the president. But they don't have to be a charismatic leader,
because often I hear things like this candidate doesn't move me,
and my response is, who cares. We're not going to
a concert. We're looking for someone who's going to lead
the country, hopefully in the way we want it to
(18:36):
be led. And so I think we need to be
more informed about who's running and who's looking to be
in office, and we need to be more aggressive or
progressive rather in terms of putting our own agendas out there.
So whether no matter what community that may be, we
need to be again more more aggressive in terms of
(18:59):
what we want to be done in the country. And
until that happens, we will continue having administrations like we
presently have. Yeah, some people say history repeats itself. Yester
say it never stopped. Let me give an example. Let
(19:23):
me give an example. You know, I've heard a lot
of people say nothing ever changes, and I said to people, okay,
let's go back to twenty sixteen. Twenty sixteen, a lot
of people stayed home, millions of people stayed home. And
then President Trump got to a point three Supreme Court
justices Amy, Barrett, Kavanaugh and Goustious And a couple of
(19:50):
years later, what do they do. They overturn roeb Wade.
Then they are now looking at the Voting Rights Act,
which John Roberts has been trying to to overturn since
he was with the Regie administration and him as Samuel Alito.
So things do change. There is change is not always
(20:11):
the change you want. But I think we need to
look at it from that perspective that staying home you
will get some change, it just won't be the change
you want. And we have to understand that when it
comes to progressive politics. You know, Robert Kennedy's senior said,
progress is nice. Change is as catalyst, but change has
(20:31):
its enemies. And so we have to be diligent and
always being out there and looking to move the agenda
that we have or we may vote in order to
keep something bad from happening, or we vote in order
to maintain what we already have. And so the more
(20:51):
we think that it doesn't matter, the more things will
happen that you don't want to happen.
Speaker 3 (20:58):
Yeah, yeah, uh, but you know, I think you said
it earlier.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
A lot of the American people are desensitized. It doesn't
it doesn't feel real to them until something happens to
a neighbor or themselves and it's like, oh yeah, this
this stuff is real. And me personally, I just feel
like America is polarized. It's noisy, Like we the American
people are tired, you know, we're We're tired enough to
(21:26):
talk about it online, but not tired enough to organize
properly to execute the chain. A lot of us don't
know how, a lot of us don't know where to start.
So something some things people like, oh well, somebody will
do it, you know Superman, when they will stand up
and you know, fight for us or something of that matter.
Speaker 3 (21:48):
We'll get another Martin Luther King or another.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Malcolm X somewhere down the line to help suade the
popular opinion for US American people. What do you feel
optimistic about the.
Speaker 5 (22:02):
Future optimistic is too rosy a word. I'm hopeful. And
the reason I'm hopeful is because you know, I've been
around long enough to have seen the pendulum swing back
and forth. So even if you look at other countries
where they've gone, let's say, towards the right or towards authoritarianism.
(22:24):
Look at Poland. Poland went way to the right, came
back to the middle. Uh. Even London went to the right,
you know, has been right for a long time, came
back to the middle. Even in Italy, you know, with
the Prime Minister Georgia Maloney, people thought she was going
to be way out there, and she still is in
some issues, but by large she has come back to
(22:45):
the middle, has been ruling from a centrist perspective. So
the pendulum does swing, and I think America and I
think you're beginning to see it now that the pendulum
is beginning to swing back. With elections that took place
a couple of weeks ago, you're beginning to say a
swing even in red counties went blue. So I think
(23:10):
we are beginning to see a ship back and that
is that is part for the course of most countries.
What we don't want to do is to get so
far out there that coming back will be too difficult.
So we are not there yet. So I think twenty
twenty six is going to be pivotal in the life
(23:32):
of the country. But I'm hopefuls, you know, a lot
of Yeah, I'm hopeful. Optimistic is too rosy a word,
but I'm hopeful.
Speaker 3 (23:43):
All right, I'm hopeful too.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
And speaking of twenty twenty six year lunch in America informed,
what inspired this concept and are you going to be
one of the media powerhouses that stand up with the
American people?
Speaker 5 (23:58):
Well, what is to that? Well, in fact, you know,
we have a lot of disinformation going around and this
started really with I think one of the former members
of the Trump administration talking about alternative facts, and I
think there needs to be some place where you can
(24:18):
take the politics out, and which is very, very hard
to do, and I'm quite aware of that, but there
have been shows on whether it's PBS or whether it's
other stations, where you can get kind of a balanced view.
My goal in starting that show is not to necessarily
(24:39):
present a political view, but to lay out the fact
as we presently know them and let people make up
their own mind from there and I think that is
that is the best thing we can do for the
American people. And so you know, we're meeting with folks,
TV folks to see how we're going to put this
(25:01):
thing on. And I remember, you know, back in the day,
you know, where we had programs that used to present
issues where you just got the facts. Wasn't everybody, but
you got the facts, or you had discussions between people
who would discuss Fred Friendly used to do this, and
(25:24):
they used to have panel discussions about various issues and
various situations that people would just sit around the table
and figure that out. And I think that is missing
from our politics right now, and it's something that I
would like to see put back into the public square.
And hopefully we can do that.
Speaker 3 (25:44):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
And also we mentioned earlier, though you mentioned earlier that
you know, people vote against their own interests. We know
why it keeps happening, But how do we break that cycle.
Speaker 5 (26:03):
That's a hard one because I used two examples in
the book. One was Biden's student loan forgiveness, which was
not popular even though many of the people who would
have benefited from that their children had student loans or
they themselves as student loans. The other one. The other
example that I use was President Obama's proposal, his housing
(26:26):
proposal during the financial crisis, in which was going to
help a lot of people who were in trouble due
to their mortgage and houses being on the water and
the light. But that was railed against by you know,
institutions like CNBC, you know rich S and Telly lost
his damn mind when Obama proposed that. And then you
(26:48):
began to see around the country a lot of people
with bumper signs that said, Hank, by paying your mortgage.
And it says to me that people have a tendency
to vote against their own interests. And I remember a theologian,
Adan Druler, who said, you know, the middle class looks
up for inspiration, it looks down for glam And I
(27:10):
think we've always been like that, and that's the rugged
individualism and how you get out of that. It's difficult
because people wanted to say that I did it all
by myself, nobody help me, which is a myth in
of itself, because nobody gets anywhere by themselves. So I
think we have to kind of explain, you know, how
(27:32):
people get places, how things happen. And it's really as
it's really a campaign of information, and it's the campaign
of educating people so that they understand that, you know,
if we pull this lever, pull these taxes out, or
pull that these taxes out, this is what will happen.
(27:53):
We're beginning to see that now with the expiration of
the subsidies for Obamacare, people are navigating to understand that,
you know, maybe we're not different from everybody else, we're
kind of in this together. Or even with Obamacare, you know,
the idea of you can now be covered even though
(28:14):
you have a pre existing condition, many people, I mean
people don't understand how huge that was. And so I
think it's just understanding where you are, understanding how you
got to where you are that somebody said, yes, somebody
gave a helping hand in one form or another.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
Absolutely, Tony, if you could give America one thing to
punter about to wake up to tomorrow morning, what would
it be?
Speaker 5 (28:46):
I would say, look at Turkey, look at hungering. Do
you want to be like that? Yeah? If you do,
then you know your voter coort. If you don't, then
you need to organize to make sure that we reverse
(29:07):
the situation that we're in. And I look at those
two countries in particular, which were democracies which became authoritarian
and which shows you how fragile democracy or representative democracy is.
And so that's what I would tell people. If you
want to be like all barn a ewe, there you
(29:32):
go and stay with stay on the course. If you don't,
then you need to change course.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
That's good, That's a good Tony. Where can people pick
up a copy of your book?
Speaker 5 (29:44):
The book is available as paperback in Amazon and online
e book at Barnes and Noble.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
A listeners.
Speaker 2 (29:57):
Just in case you need that link, and I know
you will, you're a good American citizen. I will have
the link in the description of this episode and in
the show notes, So all you have to do is
click the links out include his website as well. There's
a lot of great information for you right there as well.
Just yesterday I posted a quote on social media from
(30:19):
Carl Jong and it said that you are what you do,
not what.
Speaker 3 (30:24):
You say you'll do.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
Due to the picture of a man pointing at himself
in the mirror saying, Carl Jenron John warm me about you.
Speaker 3 (30:33):
So American people, that is you, and you've just been talking.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
It's time to put up a shut up, simple as that,
all right, guys, Yes, sir, that was Tony Aguilar, a
voice shaped by service, sharpened by truth, and committed to
helping America's Americans understand the country that we live.
Speaker 3 (30:54):
In his book, Is America Broken? Or Has It Always
been This Way?
Speaker 2 (30:59):
Is a must read for anyone wanting clarity in a
confusing era, and there's a lot of confusion. So make
sure you follow Tony's work as he prepares to lunch
America Informed a new format for national understanding.
Speaker 3 (31:13):
My name is coach.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
Deani, reminding you awareness is the first step towards change,
and you just tap into the frequency of the fearless.
Thank you so much, Tony, as thank you listeners, have
a wonderful night.
Speaker 3 (31:26):
Thank you absolutely, take care.
Speaker 6 (31:30):
Peace to all. My name is Deanie and I am
the host of Vigilantes Radio Live. I think that we
are beyond just asking cool questions and getting cool responses.
I think that we are here as creatives to provide
(31:52):
in example that you can do things different outside of expectations.
Because some of us simply were not born into the club.
But there is perhaps a door window or backgate that
we can leave a clue for you to get into.
(32:12):
Life is short, but there are plenty of moments to
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from mistakes may be tough, but regret it's tougher To
book your interview. Email us at V radio at only
onemediagroup dot com. That's a V as in victorious or
(32:35):
visit only onemediagroup dot com. I'm counting on you, Heaven.
We all are counting on you to step into your
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Speaker 1 (33:21):
You and now listening to vigil Lances Radio, the people's
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(00:23):
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Speaker 2 (00:43):
Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, and thank you as always for checking
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I can't wait to deliver it to your inboxes and
(01:04):
for you guys who subscribe to the show, you'll be
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this is the frequency of the fearless. You know, every
generation asks a version of the same question, what is
(01:25):
happening to my America? And every generation discovers an uncomfortable truth.
Nothing changes unless we do. Our guest today has spent
over thirty years inside the engine room of public service,
watching the gap between promise and practice, writing and contract,
(01:48):
hell and reopen. He challenges us not to accept the
script that we were given are inherited, but to rewrite
it with the courage, with the clarity, and of compassion.
You're not just here for a talk show. And this
isn't just radio. This is revival for your mind, body,
(02:09):
and spirit. This is Vigilantes Radio Live. My name is
Coach Deani, and change is possible.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
Are you ready?
Speaker 4 (02:24):
Are you ready? Are you radio radio? Are you ready? Well,
let's go, then'll go?
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Then all right, all right again, welcome to the show.
You're listening to vr L. That is Vigilantes Radio Live
right here on iHeart Radio, and I am your host, Deani.
Our interviews are designed to go beyond the music, news, books, art, acting, films, technology, education, entrepreneurship, entertainment, spirituality,
(03:06):
and sometimes even past the thing that we call the ego.
Our interviews are designed to go behind the scenes into
the minds of these brilliant people, you know, the ones
who are out there giving it. They're all for me,
for you, and for the world. Well, ladies and gentlemen.
Born in the South Bronx and shaped by decades of
(03:27):
hands on public service, Tony Agler is a community organizer, author,
social commentator, and national voice on justice and equality. With
over thirty years working in affordable housing, economic development, environmental
cleanup and leadership training, Tony brings a rare mix of
(03:51):
lived experience and historical insight.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
His new book, Is American Broken Or Has It Always
Been This Way?
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Digs into the roots of inequality and the myths we
clean to.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
So please join me in saying.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Welcome friend to Tony Ycler.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
Hey, welcome to the show.
Speaker 5 (04:12):
Tony, Thank you to Metrius, and thanks for having me
on the show.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
Appreciate it, absolutely man, absolutely so.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Before we really just dive into everything, we always ask
this opening question, and that is what's been on your
heart and mind lately.
Speaker 5 (04:33):
Well, I think, like most people or a large segment
of the country, you know what we're seeing now in
terms of immigration and people being disappear and so to speak,
and deported and citizens rounded up. I think we have
a problem. And I think when we see things that
(04:53):
are symbolic but they are symbol of a problem. You know,
the White House essentially being torn down, in monuments clause
being broken every day. You know, MBS coming to the
White House and things of that nature. So it's a lot.
I would say that to my heart in terms of
(05:14):
it seems as though we're headed in a direction which
many people feel that we may be able to may
not be able to turn away from. I disagree with that,
but it does seem like we are living in dark times.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
Absolutely, Tony.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
There's so many things going on in this country of
America that I don't even know what to focus on really,
to be quite honest, I don't know which issue to,
you know, really just hone in and care about, because
there's so many things happening all at once. I'll tell
you something that just happened recently. I was at a
gas station and it was like a scene out of
(05:54):
a movie, Like ten dark SUVs pulled up to the
gas station. He's just jumping out with army guns. They
storm into the gas station like everybody's just skadadled because
they didn't.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
Know what was happening.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
And and and ironically, I get a job offer from
Ice asking me if I want to be an agent.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
I'm like, oh no.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
No, I mean I feel strongly about issues like that,
but to be a part of that, I don't think
that's my cup of tea.
Speaker 3 (06:26):
How do you feel, Tony?
Speaker 5 (06:28):
I think Number one, we have to realize a couple
of things. This is not the first time that this
has happened. What's happening now is not new. We have
deployed people before, we have rounded people up before, We
rounded up Japanese Americans put them in interminent camps. So
this is not new. It may be new to a
(06:49):
you know, the new the young generation, but this is
not a new issue that the nation had dealt with.
One of the problems we have dealt with over the
years is who is a real American? Who can be
a real American, and who should be allowed to stay.
We see right now that we have an administration that
(07:09):
has adopted, so to speak, a vision of America that
is anti black, anti gay, and is pro white. And
there's nothing wrong in terms of being pro white, but
the idea exclusion of other people. So we have the
you know, getting rid of DEI. We have all of this,
(07:33):
and let us not kid ourselves the idea that we
have National Guard and ice and all of that in
our streets has more to do with what's going to
happen in twenty twenty six and twenty twenty eight than
it does to do what it has what it has
to do with now. This is just in my opinion,
and I think a lot of people agree with this.
(07:54):
This is kind of an experiment to see what would
happen if if we sent all these people in can
we get the population used to this? Because one thing
about people in human nature is that we can get
used to anything, and at some point we would simply
become numb to the idea of ice agents and to
(08:17):
the idea of the National Guard and the militarization of
police forces. And that's I think we have to really
fight against that so that we don't become numb to it,
so to speak, so that it becomes part of out
a normal, abnormal routine of the day. And I think
that is the most dangerous thing that I see happening
(08:40):
in America right now.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
Indeed, Tony Indeed, So the question is is American broken
or hasn't always been this way?
Speaker 5 (08:56):
I think it's a combination of the two. As I said,
We've always have these issues, and as they're right about
in the book, you know, we've had issues of race
for hundreds of years. Issued the culture wars have been
going on for decades. So immigration, this issue has been
out there for years. We've had the Chinese Exclusion Act,
(09:19):
which essentially barred Chinese workers from coming to the United
States for about ten years. We had a mass deportation
of Mexicans under the Hooven administration. Now we're seeing that again.
We've always had the notion of wealth inequality has been
going on for decades of not hundreds of years. Even
(09:40):
during the so called Gilded Age, we had a huge
wealth discrepancy within the population. So in one respect, this
is not new. The question is how do you create
safeguards to make sure that it doesn't happen again. And
one of the things that I critique the Biden administration
(10:02):
for he ran on the issue of democracy and that
we are at an inflection point. But the reality is
that the Biden administration did absolutely nothing to protect the
nation from this happening again. So the question is going
to be whoever comes in in twenty twenty eight, and
hopefully there will be an election, is what will be
(10:24):
the guard rails that people will put up there in
order to make sure that this will never happen again.
It's going to be don't then we will simply move
towards what some people consider to be an authoritarian government,
which is not against our constitution. And people need to
understand that that right now, what is happening is legal,
(10:49):
and that's the problem. And I think you need to
have those safeguards, or you need to have a split
of government between Democrats and Republicans to make sure that
that does not happen again.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
Yeah, Tony, I am tired of living through these social
experiments and research panel groups that I didn't sign up for.
Is there someone besides yourself fighting for us in the Senate?
Speaker 5 (11:14):
I think so. You know, certainly you have church people
who are out there now getting arrested, getting beat up,
so they are speaking and I'm talking about the mainline
denomination of churches, people like Bishop William Barber, Bishop Mary
and Buddy from the Episcopal Church. Certainly, Pope Leo has
(11:36):
been speaking out and today just critique the Trump administration again.
So I think there are people out there. I think
the Democrats, depending upon who we're talking about, are trying
to fight back. But the reality is we have to
understand that in our system of government, the democrats at
this stage of the game really have no power. Only
(12:00):
power they have is the voice and to speak up
and press conferences and the life. So in order to
get back to some sense of normalcy, you're going to
have to have divided government, which we do not have now,
(12:21):
and that's the only thing that will save us going
further along this role of authoritarianism. Now, the other thing
I would say that there probably also needs to be
a wake up Paul two folks within the business community,
academia as well as the legal profession, as well as
the medium, because a lot of media has simply not
(12:45):
taking the hands off approach, but it's a kid glove
approach that they've done, and I think that is dangerous
as well. This is something that happened obviously in Turkey,
you know, with Ernawan, also in Hungary with or Robot.
So I think the media has to get a spine
(13:07):
and to really start talking back. I mean some of
the shows are doing, like MSNBC and other programs, but
I think there has to be more of that. ABC, CBS,
at NBC. I think have to begin to show some spine,
otherwise you're gonna lose your democracy. I mean, the Washington
Post says democracy dies in the doctors. Well, Washington Post
(13:29):
and the La Times both had pulled their endorsement of
Kamala Harris. Why do they do that in order not
to go through the wrath of the president administration. So
I think media needs to show some backbone, which a
lot of them have not shown to date. And you
know what turned out.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
I don't think we're going to get that because they
are owned by as you mentioned earlier, you know, certain
groups who the focus has been on to make sure
everything is kosher and gravy if I can use those
two words, And you know, I don't think we'll get
the real deal. We may need some independent media coverage to.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
Get the message across. What do you think?
Speaker 5 (14:17):
Well, absolutely, And I think that's why you have, you know,
podcasts such as yours. You have independent radio stations, you
have independent magazines which can fill in the void a
little bit. At the footprint that they have is not
at this stage big enough to really hold the administration accountable.
(14:40):
So even if you take the fact even in newspapers,
quite frankly, we're not a reading country anymore. You know,
we don't really read that much anymore, sadly so, and
I think, but that's a problem that we need to address.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Yes, yes, indeed, so speaking of reading, well, before we
get into that, you spent decades in public service, from
housing to economic development. How have those frontline experiences shaped
your understanding of America's deeper issues.
Speaker 5 (15:14):
Well, it says to me that if you organize enough people,
not necessarily around a particular issue, but around the core
idea of building power, that you can make a difference
in your community. Now, I have to admit that it's
harder to do on a national level, but in terms
(15:35):
of a local level, if you organize again for power,
you can make a difference. So when it comes to housing,
economic development, and you know some of the things I
did in terms of living wage in New Jersey, economic
development and Queens housing in the South Bronx, if you
build a four and you around it institutions, you can
(16:04):
have power. You won't always win, but you can't make
a difference in how things are run. And I found
that to be the case for for many years. Tony.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
There's a particular chapter title that I absolutely love is
titled we have met the enemy, and you're like, what,
I don't know the fox get into hin house?
Speaker 3 (16:30):
You know, But who is this enemy?
Speaker 2 (16:34):
And how does that redefine how people see personal responsibility?
Speaker 5 (16:44):
The enemy, as I define it is us, because the
reality is we are like we are in the h
R Department of the nation. We decide who's going to
serve and that doesn't mean we always get it right.
But if you look at our voting patterns of the population,
(17:07):
of the voting population stays home consistently, even more in
terms of you know, congressional racist. So that means that
you know, a minority of people are decigning which direction
the country is going to head in. But we also
need to be aware of what I would call looking
(17:28):
for the charismatic leader, and I think that is their
problem we do. You know, it's nice to have the
characs magic leader, but charas mague leaders will always at
the end of the day disappoint. You know, there there's
a Christmas song called lyric Town of Bethlehem, And where
do the lyrics goes that all our hopes and fears
of all the years are met v tonight, meaning that
(17:50):
we put all our hopes and we resolve all our
faars through the one, and so we look for this
one person, and one person simply cannot do it. So
I think we need to really look at this in
a more holistic way, just starting from the bottom up.
And that means whether it's the mayor's race, whether it's Congress,
(18:13):
whether it's local das, whether it's sheriffs or up to
the president. But they don't have to be a charismatic leader,
because often I hear things like this candidate doesn't move me,
and my response is, who cares. We're not going to
a concert. We're looking for someone who's going to lead
the country, hopefully in the way we want it to
(18:36):
be led. And so I think we need to be
more informed about who's running and who's looking to be
in office, and we need to be more aggressive or
progressive rather in terms of putting our own agendas out there.
So whether no matter what community that may be, we
need to be again more more aggressive in terms of
(18:59):
what we want to be done in the country. And
until that happens, we will continue having administrations like we
presently have. Yeah, some people say history repeats itself. Yester
say it never stopped. Let me give an example. Let
(19:23):
me give an example. You know, I've heard a lot
of people say nothing ever changes, and I said to people, okay,
let's go back to twenty sixteen. Twenty sixteen, a lot
of people stayed home, millions of people stayed home. And
then President Trump got to a point three Supreme Court
justices Amy, Barrett, Kavanaugh and Goustious And a couple of
(19:50):
years later, what do they do. They overturn roeb Wade.
Then they are now looking at the Voting Rights Act,
which John Roberts has been trying to to overturn since
he was with the Regie administration and him as Samuel Alito.
So things do change. There is change is not always
(20:11):
the change you want. But I think we need to
look at it from that perspective that staying home you
will get some change, it just won't be the change
you want. And we have to understand that when it
comes to progressive politics. You know, Robert Kennedy's senior said,
progress is nice. Change is as catalyst, but change has
(20:31):
its enemies. And so we have to be diligent and
always being out there and looking to move the agenda
that we have or we may vote in order to
keep something bad from happening, or we vote in order
to maintain what we already have. And so the more
(20:51):
we think that it doesn't matter, the more things will
happen that you don't want to happen.
Speaker 3 (20:58):
Yeah, yeah, uh, but you know, I think you said
it earlier.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
A lot of the American people are desensitized. It doesn't
it doesn't feel real to them until something happens to
a neighbor or themselves and it's like, oh yeah, this
this stuff is real. And me personally, I just feel
like America is polarized. It's noisy, Like we the American
people are tired, you know, we're We're tired enough to
(21:26):
talk about it online, but not tired enough to organize
properly to execute the chain. A lot of us don't
know how, a lot of us don't know where to start.
So something some things people like, oh well, somebody will
do it, you know Superman, when they will stand up
and you know, fight for us or something of that matter.
Speaker 3 (21:48):
We'll get another Martin Luther King or another.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Malcolm X somewhere down the line to help suade the
popular opinion for US American people. What do you feel
optimistic about the.
Speaker 5 (22:02):
Future optimistic is too rosy a word. I'm hopeful. And
the reason I'm hopeful is because you know, I've been
around long enough to have seen the pendulum swing back
and forth. So even if you look at other countries
where they've gone, let's say, towards the right or towards authoritarianism.
(22:24):
Look at Poland. Poland went way to the right, came
back to the middle. Uh. Even London went to the right,
you know, has been right for a long time, came
back to the middle. Even in Italy, you know, with
the Prime Minister Georgia Maloney, people thought she was going
to be way out there, and she still is in
some issues, but by large she has come back to
(22:45):
the middle, has been ruling from a centrist perspective. So
the pendulum does swing, and I think America and I
think you're beginning to see it now that the pendulum
is beginning to swing back. With elections that took place
a couple of weeks ago, you're beginning to say a
swing even in red counties went blue. So I think
(23:10):
we are beginning to see a ship back and that
is that is part for the course of most countries.
What we don't want to do is to get so
far out there that coming back will be too difficult.
So we are not there yet. So I think twenty
twenty six is going to be pivotal in the life
(23:32):
of the country. But I'm hopefuls, you know, a lot
of Yeah, I'm hopeful. Optimistic is too rosy a word,
but I'm hopeful.
Speaker 3 (23:43):
All right, I'm hopeful too.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
And speaking of twenty twenty six year lunch in America informed,
what inspired this concept and are you going to be
one of the media powerhouses that stand up with the
American people?
Speaker 5 (23:58):
Well, what is to that? Well, in fact, you know,
we have a lot of disinformation going around and this
started really with I think one of the former members
of the Trump administration talking about alternative facts, and I
think there needs to be some place where you can
(24:18):
take the politics out, and which is very, very hard
to do, and I'm quite aware of that, but there
have been shows on whether it's PBS or whether it's
other stations, where you can get kind of a balanced view.
My goal in starting that show is not to necessarily
(24:39):
present a political view, but to lay out the fact
as we presently know them and let people make up
their own mind from there and I think that is
that is the best thing we can do for the
American people. And so you know, we're meeting with folks,
TV folks to see how we're going to put this
(25:01):
thing on. And I remember, you know, back in the day,
you know, where we had programs that used to present
issues where you just got the facts. Wasn't everybody, but
you got the facts, or you had discussions between people
who would discuss Fred Friendly used to do this, and
(25:24):
they used to have panel discussions about various issues and
various situations that people would just sit around the table
and figure that out. And I think that is missing
from our politics right now, and it's something that I
would like to see put back into the public square.
And hopefully we can do that.
Speaker 3 (25:44):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
And also we mentioned earlier, though you mentioned earlier that
you know, people vote against their own interests. We know
why it keeps happening, But how do we break that cycle.
Speaker 5 (26:03):
That's a hard one because I used two examples in
the book. One was Biden's student loan forgiveness, which was
not popular even though many of the people who would
have benefited from that their children had student loans or
they themselves as student loans. The other one. The other
example that I use was President Obama's proposal, his housing
(26:26):
proposal during the financial crisis, in which was going to
help a lot of people who were in trouble due
to their mortgage and houses being on the water and
the light. But that was railed against by you know,
institutions like CNBC, you know rich S and Telly lost
his damn mind when Obama proposed that. And then you
(26:48):
began to see around the country a lot of people
with bumper signs that said, Hank, by paying your mortgage.
And it says to me that people have a tendency
to vote against their own interests. And I remember a theologian,
Adan Druler, who said, you know, the middle class looks
up for inspiration, it looks down for glam And I
(27:10):
think we've always been like that, and that's the rugged
individualism and how you get out of that. It's difficult
because people wanted to say that I did it all
by myself, nobody help me, which is a myth in
of itself, because nobody gets anywhere by themselves. So I
think we have to kind of explain, you know, how
(27:32):
people get places, how things happen. And it's really as
it's really a campaign of information, and it's the campaign
of educating people so that they understand that, you know,
if we pull this lever, pull these taxes out, or
pull that these taxes out, this is what will happen.
(27:53):
We're beginning to see that now with the expiration of
the subsidies for Obamacare, people are navigating to understand that,
you know, maybe we're not different from everybody else, we're
kind of in this together. Or even with Obamacare, you know,
the idea of you can now be covered even though
(28:14):
you have a pre existing condition, many people, I mean
people don't understand how huge that was. And so I
think it's just understanding where you are, understanding how you
got to where you are that somebody said, yes, somebody
gave a helping hand in one form or another.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
Absolutely, Tony, if you could give America one thing to
punter about to wake up to tomorrow morning, what would
it be?
Speaker 5 (28:46):
I would say, look at Turkey, look at hungering. Do
you want to be like that? Yeah? If you do,
then you know your voter coort. If you don't, then
you need to organize to make sure that we reverse
(29:07):
the situation that we're in. And I look at those
two countries in particular, which were democracies which became authoritarian
and which shows you how fragile democracy or representative democracy is.
And so that's what I would tell people. If you
want to be like all barn a ewe, there you
(29:32):
go and stay with stay on the course. If you don't,
then you need to change course.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
That's good, That's a good Tony. Where can people pick
up a copy of your book?
Speaker 5 (29:44):
The book is available as paperback in Amazon and online
e book at Barnes and Noble.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
A listeners.
Speaker 2 (29:57):
Just in case you need that link, and I know
you will, you're a good American citizen. I will have
the link in the description of this episode and in
the show notes, So all you have to do is
click the links out include his website as well. There's
a lot of great information for you right there as well.
Just yesterday I posted a quote on social media from
(30:19):
Carl Jong and it said that you are what you do,
not what.
Speaker 3 (30:24):
You say you'll do.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
Due to the picture of a man pointing at himself
in the mirror saying, Carl Jenron John warm me about you.
Speaker 3 (30:33):
So American people, that is you, and you've just been talking.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
It's time to put up a shut up, simple as that,
all right, guys, Yes, sir, that was Tony Aguilar, a
voice shaped by service, sharpened by truth, and committed to
helping America's Americans understand the country that we live.
Speaker 3 (30:54):
In his book, Is America Broken? Or Has It Always
been This Way?
Speaker 2 (30:59):
Is a must read for anyone wanting clarity in a
confusing era, and there's a lot of confusion. So make
sure you follow Tony's work as he prepares to lunch
America Informed a new format for national understanding.
Speaker 3 (31:13):
My name is coach.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
Deani, reminding you awareness is the first step towards change,
and you just tap into the frequency of the fearless.
Thank you so much, Tony, as thank you listeners, have
a wonderful night.
Speaker 3 (31:26):
Thank you absolutely, take care.
Speaker 6 (31:30):
Peace to all. My name is Deanie and I am
the host of Vigilantes Radio Live. I think that we
are beyond just asking cool questions and getting cool responses.
I think that we are here as creatives to provide
(31:52):
in example that you can do things different outside of expectations.
Because some of us simply were not born into the club.
But there is perhaps a door window or backgate that
we can leave a clue for you to get into.
(32:12):
Life is short, but there are plenty of moments to
try and get it right. Pursuing your dreams and learning
from mistakes may be tough, but regret it's tougher To
book your interview. Email us at V radio at only
onemediagroup dot com. That's a V as in victorious or
(32:35):
visit only onemediagroup dot com. I'm counting on you, Heaven.
We all are counting on you to step into your
purpose and your passion. You are listening to Vigilantes Radio
live on iHeartRadio, providing you with an opportunity to dive deeper.
Speaker 1 (33:21):
You and now listening to vigil Lances Radio, the people's
choice for quality interviews, art, music and art topics, hosted
by Demetrius Houdini Black Reynolds. All episodes of this podcast
are available for free download at www. Dot only one
Media group dot com
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