October 21, 2025 • 56 mins
Air Date - 16 October 2025
“Karma” is part of our vocabulary, but do we truly understand what it means? The word is everywhere—not just in alternative spirituality, and among Hindus and Buddhists, but in news reports, ads, sitcoms, sports columns, and the everyday conversations of people who wouldn’t know the Upanishads from Us Magazine. My guest this week on Vox Novus, Philip Goldberg, joins me to share a little “Karmic Relief.” Philip Goldberg has been studying the world’s spiritual wisdom for over fifty years, both as a practitioner, teacher, and author. His many books include American Veda: From Emerson and the Beatles to Yoga and Meditation, as well as How Indian Spirituality Changed the West, which was named one of the Top 10 religion books of the year by the American Library Association. He has lectured and taught at venues throughout North America and India, and conducted online courses for platforms such as Spirituality & Practice, Embodied Philosophy, and Hindu University of America. He hosts the podcast “Spirit Matters with Philip Goldberg” at https://mindbodyspirit.fm/, serves on the board of the Association for Spiritual Integrity, and writes regularly on his Substack, “Practical Spirituality.”
His website is https://philipgoldberg.com, and he joins me this week to share his path and new book, Karmic Relief: Harnessing the Laws of Cause and Effect for a Joyful, Meaningful Life.
#PhilipGoldberg #VoxNovus #VictorFuhrman #Spirituality #Interviews
Visit the Vox Novus Show Page https://omtimes.com/iom/shows/vox-novus/
Connect with Victor Fuhrman at http://victorthevoice.com/
Subscribe to our Newsletter https://omtimes.com/subscribe-omtimes-magazine/
Connect with OMTimes on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/Omtimes.Magazine/ and OMTimes Radio https://www.facebook.com/ConsciousRadiowebtv.OMTimes/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/OmTimes/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/omtimes/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/2798417/
Pinterest: https://www.pinterest.com/omtimes/
“Karma” is part of our vocabulary, but do we truly understand what it means? The word is everywhere—not just in alternative spirituality, and among Hindus and Buddhists, but in news reports, ads, sitcoms, sports columns, and the everyday conversations of people who wouldn’t know the Upanishads from Us Magazine. My guest this week on Vox Novus, Philip Goldberg, joins me to share a little “Karmic Relief.” Philip Goldberg has been studying the world’s spiritual wisdom for over fifty years, both as a practitioner, teacher, and author. His many books include American Veda: From Emerson and the Beatles to Yoga and Meditation, as well as How Indian Spirituality Changed the West, which was named one of the Top 10 religion books of the year by the American Library Association. He has lectured and taught at venues throughout North America and India, and conducted online courses for platforms such as Spirituality & Practice, Embodied Philosophy, and Hindu University of America. He hosts the podcast “Spirit Matters with Philip Goldberg” at https://mindbodyspirit.fm/, serves on the board of the Association for Spiritual Integrity, and writes regularly on his Substack, “Practical Spirituality.”
His website is https://philipgoldberg.com, and he joins me this week to share his path and new book, Karmic Relief: Harnessing the Laws of Cause and Effect for a Joyful, Meaningful Life.
#PhilipGoldberg #VoxNovus #VictorFuhrman #Spirituality #Interviews
Visit the Vox Novus Show Page https://omtimes.com/iom/shows/vox-novus/
Connect with Victor Fuhrman at http://victorthevoice.com/
Subscribe to our Newsletter https://omtimes.com/subscribe-omtimes-magazine/
Connect with OMTimes on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/Omtimes.Magazine/ and OMTimes Radio https://www.facebook.com/ConsciousRadiowebtv.OMTimes/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/OmTimes/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/omtimes/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/2798417/
Pinterest: https://www.pinterest.com/omtimes/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Vox Novus, the new Voice, Vox Novas, the new dimension,
Vox Novas thought and movement leaders who will share from
their experience and offer tools to help us navigate our
rapidly changing world. My name is Victor Furman. Welcome to
(00:28):
Vox Novus, the New Voice. Karma is in our vocabulary,
but do we really know what it means? The word
is everywhere, not just in alternative spirituality and among Hindus
and Buddhists, but in news reports, ads, sitcoms, sports columns,
(00:54):
and the everyday conversation of people who wouldn't know the
Upanishads from US magazine. My guest this week on Box
novis Philip Goldberg, joins me to share a little karmic relief.
Philip Goldberg has been studying the world spiritual wisdom for
more than fifty years as a practitioner, teacher, and author.
(01:15):
His many books include American Veda from Emerson and the Beatles,
to Yoga and Meditation, and How Indian Spirituality Changed the West,
named one of the top ten Religion books of the
Year by the American Library Association. He has lectured and
taught at venues throughout North America and India, and conducted
(01:37):
online courses for platforms such as Spirituality and Practice, Embodied Philosophy,
and Hindu University of America. He hosts the podcast spirit
Matters with Philip Goldberg at Mind, Body, Spirit dot fm,
serves on the board of the Association for Spiritual Integrity,
and writes regularly on his substack, Practical Spirituality. His website
(02:02):
is Philip Goldberg dot com, and he joins me this
week to share his path and new book, Karmic Relief,
Harnessing the Laws of Cause and Effect for a joyful,
meaningful Life. Please join me in welcoming back, Philip Goldberg.
Welcome Phil, good to be back with you, Vic, Phil.
(02:24):
This is our third interview together.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Amazing is that a record?
Speaker 1 (02:30):
I actually have someone who has five interviews. I'm not
going to mention any names, but no, but three is
the next level of a record. So absolutely, okay, I'm honored,
thank you and congratulations for this wonderful and timely new book.
The last time you were on with me was in
twenty twenty and we were discussing your best selling book,
(02:53):
Spiritual Practice for Crazy Times, and I kidded you about
the fact that we were two boys from Brooklyn talking
about Eastern spirituality. For listeners meeting you for the first time,
please share your early path and how it led to
your calling.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
Well as you indicate, I grew up in Brooklyn before
it was hip like you, and when it was mostly
a working class melting pot, ethnic and religious melting pot.
And I grew up not just in a non religious household,
(03:33):
but an anti religious household. But then when I was
a college student, well, the period we think of as
the sixties with capital s erupted and I was one
of the many people searching for answers to the important
(03:57):
questions about life, and wondering how to live well and
have a fulfilling life and a not ordinary life, and
wondering what I was, who I was, how do I
fit into the rest of the cosmos. And as part
(04:18):
of those the zeitgeist at that time, I discovered books
about Eastern spiritual teachings. First Zen because I was fond
of the Beat poets, and then what we think of
as Yoga philosophy and Vedanta philosophy. Basically what the world
(04:42):
thinks of is Hinduism and Buddhism, but without the religious overlay,
and something about those teachings had a strong appeal for me,
and I just wanted to read as much as I could.
I became immersed in it, and everything pointed to the
(05:05):
importance of spiritual practices like mostly meditation at the time,
and what we think of as yoga, and so I
took them up as methods of self discovery and self improvement,
and they worked and they transformed my life, and I
(05:26):
got more deeply immersed in them, and years later I
became a teacher of meditation. And when I became when
I turned to what I think was my true calling
it professionally to write and speak and use my whatever
(05:47):
gifts with words I had, I naturally drifted to writing
about those subjects that had been so important to me
personally and less fifteen sixteen years that's been the focal
point of my writing, in public speaking and so forth.
So that's the nutshell version of it.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
And that's a wonderful nutshell. Before we get into karmic relief,
let's talk about spiritual practice for crazy times. What inspired
that book and what did you share with your readers.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
You know, it's odd, but the book came out shortly
after COVID erupted, and so we added a one paragraph
to the preface or the introduction. But most people thought
I wrote it because times were crazy, thanks to COVID.
(06:48):
But you know, I'd been working on the book for
a year or more prior to that. No one expected COVID.
But times were crazy, you know, beginning in twenty seventeen
eight team when the Trump era began, And so I
(07:08):
wrote the book because people were struggling with how to
make sense of things, and I thought spiritual practices of
various kinds were very important in the equation of how
to stay sane and how to stay stable and centered
(07:30):
while dealing with the eruption of changes in the world.
And then when COVID happened, it was just good timing. Well,
bad timing for the world, but good timing for a
book with that with that title. And so there it is.
And as the years go by, I find myself when
(07:52):
the subject comes up of saying, well, it's still crazy
and crazy in different ways, and so the book maintains
its relevance.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
Are you going to release it with a new forward?
Speaker 2 (08:07):
I could, but I don't think in a sense it's
not even necessary. If anybody doubts that were in crazy times,
they need more than a new forward to realize how
crazy things are.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
I remember an outstanding essay that you wrote entitled Spiritual
Responsibility in the Age of Black Lives Matter, And to
quote a line from that essay, you said, our long
overdue moment of reckoning is a spiritual challenge, not just
a social or political one. We're called upon to stretch
(08:44):
beyond our comfort zones, to introspect rigorously and self assess. Honestly,
that was five years ago. Where did we go wrong?
And what made me do about it?
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Well, I'm honored that you remembered that or dug it up.
I didn't remember it, but I would say the same
thing now, only you know, in a different context. And
the reason I did that is, you know, the eruption
of protests and everything after the murder of George Floyd
(09:20):
and the Black Lives Matter movement. It was a turning
point in our social contract in a sense. And as
somebody of a certain age who came of age in
the sixties during the Civil rights era, it was shocking
to me that people that the fact of racism and
(09:44):
what's called structural racism and all the you know, inequalities
that are systemic, that it wasn't just common knowledge that
it had to be revealed to people once again. And
I found that shocking. But maybe it's just a reflection
(10:05):
of my age or the times I grew up in.
And now I think, you know, we're facing a different
kind of danger and threat. And one of the reasons
I address that and have written certain things more recently
(10:27):
is that, well, at a certain point, there was a
tendency among spiritual people to think, oh, all this will pass,
and this is just the way of things, and if
we just continue to evolve us on a spiritual level,
(10:49):
it'll all take care of itself. And I felt that
there was a certain escapism in that, or a certain
denial or naivete that certain people who care about other
human beings and care about issues of justice and fairness
(11:13):
in the world and would like to see unnecessary suffering
ended had a responsibility to engage in the world and
not just think you can pray it or meditate it
or mindfulness it away. And I still feel that way.
(11:36):
I think there's great threats to our freedoms and our
democracy and what we hold dear, and people who are
spiritually aware and compassionate and care need to do more
to engage in actions that might make a contribution, whatever
(12:05):
that may be. I'm not calling on everybody to storm
the barricades. Not everybody's an activist, but anything we can
do to make the world a little better and not
just internalize our spirituality in the spirit of other spiritual
(12:26):
leaders who engaged in the world, whoever you want to
call upon as a role model, whether Jesus or Buddha,
or the prophets or Tick not Han or Martin Luther
King or whoever. There's a certain degree of engagement that
(12:47):
I think we're called upon to take up.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
At the time, you shared that the remedy for this
was taking on sacred citizenship. How do you define that
and is it still possible.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
I think it's not only possible, it's necessary, and I'm
very encouraged. You know, I'm involved with different aspects of
the spiritual community. I'm on the board of the Association
for Spiritual Integrity. I interview people on my own podcast
all the time. I talk to people, and I'm very
(13:29):
happy to hear that those signs of escapism and denial
that I talked about that I observed five six years
ago are not happening now. People care and people are
aware and being good spiritual citizens. It matters to people
(13:51):
that spirituality is an internal thing, and it's an individual thing.
Those of us who are in position of communicating teachings
to others or teaching them ourselves, we want to help
people develop the internal spiritual resources of expanded awareness, inner peace,
(14:18):
all those wonderful symptoms that go with spiritual growth. But
we also want them to not turn their backs on
their neighbors and their fellow citizens and the social and
political realities, because we have a special responsibility, because we
(14:39):
recognize the importance of the inner dimension of life as
well as outer security, outer peace, outer harmony, because one
feeds on the other. And so I think it's necessary.
I think it's not only possible, but.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
Absolutely What inspired your new book, Karma Relief Harnessing the
Laws of Cause and Effect for a Joyful, meaningful Life.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Well, you know, we talked about my early longstanding interest
in Eastern philosophy, and one key concept in that system,
those systems of ideas and insights is the concept of karma.
(15:36):
And so I became interested in it early on and
wondered if it was true and it was really the
case that there's justice in the universe and laws of
cause and effect analogous to the laws of physics are
in play, and that, as we say colloquially, we reap
(15:58):
what we sew. What goes around comes around. All of
our actions have a consequence in the world that comes
back to us, whether wanted or unwanted. And it's a
lovely framework for a fair and just universe. But is
it true? And so I wrestled with that for many
(16:20):
years and finally came to the conclusion that I can
neither prove it nor refute it. No one can, but
that it's a good bet. I decided, you know, to
err on the side of accepting karma as a reality,
(16:42):
because I noticed that when I made decisions, when I
looked at situations in life, assuming karma was true and
real and the universe was lawful in those ways, I
made better choices and I was a better person for it,
(17:06):
And so that became an interesting addition to how I
see the world, and to be honest, the title Karmic
Relief came before before the idea for a book, back
in the days when Robin Williams and Whoopi Goldberg and
(17:26):
Billy Crystal were doing the comic relief charity of TV shows.
I thought, I started using the term karmic relief, and
at one point I said, Gee, that would make a
good book title. Maybe I should write a book about karma.
And I put it on the shelf for a long time,
(17:47):
but it became more and more relevant because the word
karma kept being used in public more and more. I'd
hear it on sportscat, I'd hear it on news reports.
I'd hear it in pop songs. Taylor Swift has a
song about karma. Alicia Keys had a song about karma.
(18:10):
Willie Nelson had a song about karma. So I kept
seeing it and it showed up in everyday speech. But
I realized people have an intuitive understanding of what karma
is and means, but they often misconstrue it and get
it wrong. And so I kept thinking, maybe I should
(18:31):
do a book about it, and eventually my wife and
my agent convinced me to do it. And so here
it is.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
There it is. Where did the idea of karma originate?
And what does it really mean?
Speaker 2 (18:45):
The Sanskrit real translation is simply action, So you see
references to karma in the earliest literature of the Vedic
period of India as goes back thousands of years, usually
meaning action and then meaning ritual actions to create certain
(19:09):
effects in the world, and over time, at least as
they show up in the Oral traditions and the texts
from the East, it evolved into a deeper and more
nuanced explanation of action in general, and the notion that
(19:34):
everything we do, and not just do, but everything we
even think and say, has a consequence in the world
that is far reaching in its impact throughout the universe.
Almost like electrons and vibrations emanate through the universe, so
(19:57):
do the vibrations of our actions, our thoughts, and they
come back to us as what we think of, you know,
naively as good karma or bad karma, meaning there are consequences,
and some of those consequences are things were glad happened
to us, and others are things we wish didn't happen
(20:21):
to us based on what we've done in the past,
And we're creating new karma all the time. And that's
how at a certain period of the Eastern traditions it
began to be more and more articulated and eventually sophisticated
(20:41):
concepts of karma and explanations of karma came down and
they found their way to the West along with the
others aspects of Eastern teachings, and they eventually became part
of our vocabulary and our frame of reference. I think
if you ask most people if what karma means, they'll
(21:05):
have a pretty good approximation of, you know, we reap
what we sew or something like that. But then again,
as I said, it's a much more nuanced thing. And
I felt an explanation in a book that clarifies what
karma is and what it's not and why it's relevant
(21:29):
and useful concept if we want to live a happier life,
I felt the book would be useful.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
You know, it's interesting you would mention the pop songs
that feature karma, and I can only think back to
John Lennon's Instant Karma.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
Right, Instant Karma. It was one of the early ones,
early seventies. But then I did a search when I
thought about the book, and like more than one hundred
and fifty titles came up on iTunes with the word
karma or kara in the lyrics or the title, including,
as I said, Willie Nelson has Us had a song
(22:07):
called a little old Fashioned Karma, and then were recently
Alicia Keys and famously Taylor Swift and others. You know,
it was the song in the I think the eighties
called Karma Chameleon, remember that.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
One, boy George Karma Chamelion.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
Yes, but they all, most of them are about They're
in the genre of music of you've done me wrong
and now you're going to get it. You know, karma
is going to come after you, and we've That's how
most of us think. When you hear people use karma,
(22:49):
it's usually in the negative, like your team loses, they
have bad karma. Candidate does make some mistake, bad karma,
something happens in the world, it must be karma, bad
karma coming back to the person. But all the good
stuff is karma too, you know, and we forget that.
We're filled with blessings in our life all the time.
(23:13):
You know, it's good karma that I'm here talking to you,
and it's good karma that your listeners are maybe learning something.
And it's good karma that you got to check in
the mail today, or that you know you've got a
new job, or you met someone you love. All these
things are a product of good karma, and we forget
(23:35):
about that, but it's important to keep aware of it.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
My guest is Philip Goldberg. His new book Karmak Relief,
Harnessing the Laws of Cause and Effect for a joyful,
meaningful Life. Philip, please share with our listeners where they
can get all of your books and find out more
about you.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
Well. You get all of my books, including Karmak Relief
and the usual booksellers if you're If you like using Amazon,
it's there there. If you like using other booksellers online,
they are there. If you like going to your local bookstores,
which I encourage people to do, I hope the books
(24:14):
are in stock and they'll certainly order them for you.
My website is Philipgoldberg dot com. My sub stack, which
I write on fairly often, is called Practical Spirituality. My
podcast is called Spirit Matters.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
And we'll be back with more Phil after these words.
On the Own Times Radio network.
Speaker 3 (24:41):
The cutting edge of conscious radio. Home Times Radio I
own FM. Ome Times Magazine is one of the leading
online content providers of positivity, wellness and personal empowerment. A
philanthropic organization, their net proceeds are final to support worldwide
charity initiatives via Humanity Healing International. Through their commitment to
(25:03):
creating community and providing conscious content, they aspire to uplift
humanity on a global scale. Home Times co creating a
more conscious lifestyle.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
We're back with Philip Goldberg his brand new book Karma Relief,
Harnessing the Laws of Cause and Effect for a joyful,
meaningful Life, phil are the popular notions of what karma
is at all accurate?
Speaker 2 (25:29):
Oh, They're mostly accurate in the general sense. People know
that karma and the laws of karma are indicative of
a universe where everything we do matters and has consequences,
whether good or bad or indifferent, and that every karma,
(25:53):
if it's real, suggests that whatever we do has consequences
for us as well. So generally yes, But at the
same time, there's a lot of misconceptions, and I run
into misuses of the term or incomplete uses of the
(26:14):
term all the time. For example, I just mentioned in
the last segment that we have a tendency to think
of karma or use the term karma when bad things happen,
as if it were retribution by some cosmic judiciary for
(26:36):
us doing bad things in the world. But karma the
laws of karma apply to everything. Everything that happens is
the result of past karma. Everything we do now in
the present will produce karma in the future. So the
good things, the neutral things, and the negative things are
(26:58):
all the product of karma. In physics, there's the concept
that every action has an equal and opposite reaction, and
that applies to the material universe, you know, Newton's laws
and so forth. Karma is very similar. It suggests that
(27:19):
everything we do and say and think has an equal
and opposite reaction. So we send out everything reverberates through
the universe, and it affects other people and the environment
in different ways, to different degrees, depending on you know,
distance and the closeness of relationship and all those multiple factors,
(27:45):
and they come back to us in ways we can't
predict or necessarily anticipate. Sometimes it's obvious if you insult somebody,
the chances are you'll reap the consequences of being cruel
(28:06):
fairly quickly in some way or another. You're on a
red light, you might suffer the consequences immediately with a
ticket or an accident, or maybe not so. But some
things are sort of what John Lennon called instant karma.
But for most of our actions, they're much more subtle,
(28:28):
much more nuanced. They interact with the karma of other people.
So things get a little uncertain and unpredictable. But everything
is karma, and everything we do will come back to
us in one way or another at some time or another.
(28:50):
But it's not just retribution. It's not like somebody, you know,
some god figure is calculating re word words and punishment.
It's more like the laws of science. There are causes
and effects, just like there is if you throw a
pebble in a pond or hit a billiard ball on
(29:15):
a pool table. There's consequences that reverberate and bounce back.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
Are there things that are not part of karma?
Speaker 2 (29:27):
No, not, If you take the laws of karma seriously,
In the theory of karma seriously, everything in the manifest
world is a subject to the laws of karma. What's
not subject to the laws of karma is the spiritual realm,
(29:50):
the transcendent realm that's beyond time and space, that's beyond
causes and effects, beyond beyond forms and substances, the spirit,
the world of spirit that has different names depending on
(30:12):
the spiritual tradition you turn to, whether you call it
brumen or Buddha nature or in the West God, that
aspect of existence is beyond karma, and we can part
of my book is the importance of recognizing that and
(30:33):
accessing that aspect of existence, that eternal, infinite aspect of
existence we call spirit because it's the best and most
effective way of changing our karma, of putting ourselves in
a position to act effectively, to create better karma going forward,
(30:58):
and to neutralize the effect of past karma that's going
to continue to come our way. So when you say,
is anything not karma, the answer is no, because spirit
is not a thing, but the spiritual realm that we
think of as you know, divine and infinite and eternal.
(31:22):
That's beyond karma.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
And in the book you share that karma is about
doing the right things, but then also not about doing
the wrong things. How do we protect ourselves in that way?
Speaker 2 (31:36):
Well, you know, as my grandmother when I was growing
up in Brooklyn used to say, be nice. That's the
short answer. You know, every spiritual tradition has codes of
ethics and morality. Every secular system of ethics as dos
(32:05):
and don'ts that are not just for the sake of
social cohesion and social harmony and the welfare of others,
but for our own well being. That said, in some ways,
(32:27):
doing the right thing not doing the wrong thing is
encoded in various ways in different systems, and I would
invite listeners to turn to the system of ethics that
is most familiar to them and most comfortable. In the book,
I focused on the ethical systems that came from the
(32:50):
East because they specifically address or assume that karma is
part of this consideration. And when you look at that,
and you look at any ethical system, some of it
seems very simple. Be nice, do good things, be kind,
(33:10):
be generous, be loving, don't be selfish, don't be cruel,
don't hurt people. Essentially the golden rule. Do unto others
as you would have them do unto you. There's some
statement like that in every religious and spiritual tradition. There's
nothing particularly Christian or Jewish or Hindu or whatever about that.
(33:35):
It's universal. But then you get into nuances. So that's
where the subtleties of karma come in, and you know
different guidelines for how to be in the world and
how to treat other people, and how to engage in
(33:55):
your responsibilities to your community and or there are varieties
of that, and I devote some space in the book
to that, and I invite readers to explore that and
go a little deeper than just the ordinary ethical codes,
because it when you especially when you bring in the
(34:18):
spiritual dimension, it gets quite nuanced and quite subtle. But basically,
do the right thing, don't do the wrong thing, and
be aware. One of the things that paying attention or
assuming karma is real does for you is it may
make you a little more likely to think, well, what's
(34:40):
the right thing to do here? If I don't do
the right thing, there'll be consequences for me, So I
should do the right thing. And sometimes it's not necessarily obvious,
because life is complicated and our relationships with people are complicated.
(35:00):
So sometimes it takes a kind of intuitive sense of
what's right. Sometimes it takes seeking guidance from others or
you know, any other way we can make good decisions
in the world.
Speaker 1 (35:16):
Well, you had just mentioned about the golden rule, that
there's an iteration of that in virtually every religion around
the world. Is something that I learned when I attended
the New Seminary Interfaith back in the nineteen nineties, and
also while attending that seminary, one of the spiritual lessons
shared was everything is unfolding in divine order. We were
(35:40):
taught that we may not see it with human eyes,
but we will if we use our spiritual eyes. Is
that a Western iteration of karma?
Speaker 2 (35:49):
No, well, it's Western in the sense that it's English
and framed in a certain way. But you find the
same prince in Hinduism and all the what's so called
Dharmic traditions Hinduism, Buddhism especially, but also Jains and Seeks
(36:12):
and Dallists. You'll see similar things and just expressed in
different words, that everything happens for a reason, whether we
can decipher it or not. And sometimes we can attune
ourselves and have a sense of why things are happening
(36:36):
or and if not, that's okay. Just knowing that things
are unfolding on a level beyond our comprehension in ways
that have antecedents in the past and are unfolding in
(36:58):
a certain way. It doesn't absolve us of responsibility, though,
and that's a danger in thinking, well, it's God's will
or the universe is, you know, doing presenting us with
you know, phenomena that we can't comprehend. But it's all good,
(37:21):
it's all unfolding as it needs to do. It doesn't
mean we don't intervene and we don't contribute, you know.
Martin Luther King famously alluded to that when he said
the arc of the moral universe is long, but it
bends toward justice. And that's historically true. But we can't say, well,
(37:44):
it'll bend toward justice, so we don't have to do anything.
Maybe we need to help it bend or bend it
more quickly in the right direction. But yes, And one
of the things that's important about karma is there's a
line in the Bagavad Gita that says that karma, the
(38:08):
ways of karma, meaning the details the minutia are unfathomable
beyond the comprehension of human beings. You see the same
thing in the Book of Job. Essentially, you know, God
appears to Job and says, you know, you can't understand
this vast, complicated cosmos and why things unfold as they do.
(38:36):
Don't even try. It's a waste of time. But if
you accept this is what the universe is putting before
me at this moment. I didn't anticipate it, I didn't
want it, but I accept that it's the result of
my past karma. You accept that, and then you take
responsibility for how you respond in the moment, because what
(39:01):
you do now in the face of reality will determine
your karma going forward. We're always experiencing the effects of
past karma. We're always creating future karma in the moment,
in the present. And that you don't even have to
accept all the laws of karma as a cosmic phenomenon
(39:25):
to understand that. Any good psychotherapist will tell you, well,
things are happening to you. Now, accept the reality, learn
the lessons that have to be learned, and make the
right choices going forward.
Speaker 1 (39:42):
You had touched upon this before. Tell us more about
some of the karma spiritual practices.
Speaker 2 (39:49):
Well, I'm a big advocate and practitioner of meditation. I've
been meditating every day since nineteen sixty eight, when I
was a toddler. But so I have learned the effectiveness
(40:15):
of meditation practices when they're done regularly and when they're
deep and authentic. So that's always been the centerpiece of
my spiritual repertoire and what I advocate for others some
(40:36):
form of deep inward turning, whether you call it meditation
or mindfulness or prayer or whatever. There's of course, one
of the blessings of the modern world is that we
have a tremendous variety of practices available at our fingertips
(40:56):
that we can learn. It's also a bit of a
because we have to make smart choices. There's a lot
of nonsense out there as well as a lot of
effective practices. But there are practices that would be suitable
for everybody, and so it's a question of looking into
them and finding what works for you and then supplementing it.
(41:21):
I would say with practices that are done before meditation
or after meditation, prayer, chanting, congregational worship, physical practices like
yoga and tai chi. I mean, there's a huge variety,
(41:44):
and I recommend that people find practices that suit their
needs and that are effective. And how do we know
they're effective? In my estimation, you judge it not by
what happens during the practice, but how it affects your
life afterward. Are you more at peace? Do you are
(42:06):
you less subject to anger? And irruption of loss of
temper or anxiety or depression. Are you more likely to
behave in a kind and loving manner? Are you more
likely to have maintained some peace and equanimity even when
(42:29):
things go bad? So you can make smart decisions? Evaluate
your practices. Don't just do them because someone says you
should try different practices. But the key to me is
setting aside time every day for some form of inward practice,
(42:52):
because you will notice a difference in your life afterward.
Speaker 1 (42:58):
His new book Kermic Relief, Harnessing the Laws of Cause
and Effect for a joyful, meaningful Life. Will be back
with more of Phil Goldberg after these words on the
Own Times Radio network.
Speaker 4 (43:11):
Humanity Healing International is a small nonprofit with a big dream.
Since two thousand and seven, HHI has been working tirelessly
to bring help to communities with little or no over
Our projects are not broad mandates, nor are they overnight solutions,
but they bring the reassurance then no one is alone
(43:31):
and that someone cares. To learn more, please visit Humanityhealing
dot org. Humanity Healing is Where your Heart Is.
Speaker 1 (43:41):
Back with Phil Goldberg, we're talking about his brand new book,
Karmak relief, harnessing the laws of cause and effect for
a joyful, meaningful life. Phil What are the differences or
are there differences between the words karma and dharma?
Speaker 2 (44:00):
Good one vic, Well, there are differences, but they're very complementary.
Karma we've been talking about, so there's no need to
define it. Dharma is an equally nuanced concept. It's often
(44:22):
translated as duty duty, but that is rather inadequate. Dharma
has to do with that which upholds, that which sustains.
So something is in accord with dharma if it sustains life,
(44:50):
if it sustains growth and development and well being, and
it applies throughout the universe. But we think of it
mainly in terms of our behavior. So each of us
has a dharma to the people in our family. So
(45:13):
I have the we have the dharma of a son
or daughter to a parent. We have the dharma of
a parent to our children. We have the dharma of
a sibling to our brothers and sisters and so on
and so forth. We have a dharma as a professional,
uh which, so if you're a doctor, you have your
(45:36):
dharma is to heal and do no harm. If you're
hosting a podcast or your dharma is to convey information
and truth. So there everything has a specific dharma, or
in a traditional society it would be laid out as
this is your duty, this is what you must do
(45:57):
in this context, in that context text, in this role
that you play in life, and so forth. That's how
it was traditionally. These days, in our complex world, sometimes
it's a little difficult to sort out what our dharmic
duty or responsibility is in any situation. But essentially, if
(46:20):
you are tuned into your dharma as a professional, as
a family member, as a member of a community, in
terms of your callings and responsibilities in life, you will
behave in a way that's harmonious with your environment, and
(46:40):
therefore you'll be creating good karma for yourself and others.
If you go against dharma, then it's you're creating negative
karma and unwanted consequences will follow, so they complement one
another in that way.
Speaker 1 (47:02):
Does karma exist between conscious beings and material things that
we do not attribute consciousness to.
Speaker 2 (47:10):
That's interesting, you would have to say yes, because we
know we impact the material environment. Look what we look at,
just look at climate change and the effects of human
behavior on the natural environment. I mean, if you know,
(47:33):
if we toss a can of motor oil in the
local creek, we're creating that's we're doing something with karma consequences.
And if we do that intentionally knowing it's harmful, presumably
(47:55):
the consequences will come back to us in some way
that we would not be happy about because we're doing
something harmful to the natural world and potentially to other
human beings. So, yes, everything we do has an effect
that reverberates through the universe. It may affect I mean,
(48:17):
what I'm saying now is affecting my teeth, my camera
and my microphone and the desk in some way because
words sounds have vibratory impact, but the effects are inconsequential,
knowing nothing's happening that I could see to my desk
(48:42):
or the monitor or my computer. But if I say
something nasty or harmful, then that has consequences because of
the meaning of my words, and not affect the desk,
(49:02):
but it's going to affect the listeners and so forth.
So you could say that everything we do as an
effect on everything that it touches in terms of energy.
But some of the effects are inconsequential and some are important.
Speaker 1 (49:24):
Is there a way of correcting karma for mistakes made
during a lifetime.
Speaker 2 (49:31):
Absolutely, and that's a critical part of what I wrote
about in Karmic Relief. We've done things in the past,
all of us, so unwanted. Things are going to happen.
No matter how happy our lives are, no matter how
blessed we are, no matter how evolved and deeply spiritual are,
(49:54):
Stuff's going to happen. We're going to suffer loss, are
going to get sick, We're going to lose loved ones,
We're going to be disappointed. You know, our team will
lose our you know, stock portfolio will go down or
(50:16):
up or whatever. Things happen. The world is complex and
there's always a certain amount of you could say, suffering
or pain or discomfort or discontent that is inevitable in
the midst of happiness and joy and love and all
the good things. So can we ameliorate or neutralize the
(50:45):
effects of negative karma from the past. The answer is
decidedly yes. And all the teachings on karma emphasize that.
There's a chapter in my book titled Avert the Danger
that has not Yet Come, and one of the factors
(51:05):
in that is, to behave in the present so that
your karmic balance sheet, so to speak of good karma
and bad karma, improves. And then if something negative happens,
if challenges arise, whether they're physical or mental, or emotional
(51:31):
or social, we're better equipped to respond effectively. And if
we have a deep inner reservoir of stability and strength
and inner peace, whence stuff happens, it won't shake us
(51:54):
up as much, we won't suffer as much, and we'll
be able to make smarter DEI visions about how to
handle the situation and what to do going forward. A
long time ago, I was blessed to hear a spiritual
teacher use an analogy, very practical analogy. If you take
(52:19):
out a loan for business purposes or mortgage or whatever,
at a certain point, that loan is going to come
do like that. You do things in the world, you behave,
you make decisions, It's like taking out alone. The consequences
(52:42):
will come back, and what you do will come do So,
if you do something slightly dishonest or harmful to somebody
else or selfish, it'll come back to you at some point.
Then the question is what do you do in the interim.
In the case of alone, if you're careless with your money,
(53:05):
if you don't bother to earn enough, then when the
loan comes due, it's going to be hard. It's going
to hit you hard. You're going to suffer, You're going
to be you know, it's going to be pain. It's
going to be priced to pay. If, on the other hand,
you're conscientious and you earn money and you're you save
(53:27):
money and you're responsible with your money, when the loan
comes due, it'll be you know, it'll roll off your back,
you know, in a proverbial way, because it'll you have savings,
you have a reservoir. And it's similar with our internal qualities.
(53:49):
If we develop ourselves and in a way that gives
us inner strength and stability. I mean, if bad karma happens,
we'll handle it well. We'll look at it as a lesson,
which is I think a terribly important part of karmic relief.
(54:14):
Understanding whatever happens to be part of our lesson plan
and ask ourselves, what can I learn from this, and
how can I do things better moving forward so it
doesn't happen again and good things happen instead, and so yes,
that's a big part of the equation and I'm glad
(54:35):
you asked the question.
Speaker 1 (54:37):
His new book, Karmak Relief, Harnessing the Laws of Cause
and Effect for a joyful, meaningful Life, my guest Philip Goldberg.
Phil one more time, please share with our listeners where
theyn get all of your wonderful books and find out
more about you.
Speaker 2 (54:53):
My books are available on the usual online booksellers, from
Amazon to the Independence, and I hope local bookstores and
libraries which I want to support. They can learn more
about me at Philipgoldberg dot com. They can subscribe to
my substack writings on practical spirituality, and they can tune
(55:20):
into my interviews with wonderful guests on Spirit Matters podcast.
Thanks you for asking, vic.
Speaker 1 (55:28):
Oh absolutely, and I understand you're going to be making
two appearances here in New York in December.
Speaker 2 (55:34):
Yes, book related for Karmic Relief. I'll be at Tibet
House on December sixth, one o'clock at a Saturday, one
o'clock in the afternoon, and I'll be at the Vedanta
Society on the Upper West Side on Sunday morning, December seventh, Phil.
Speaker 1 (55:55):
Thank you so much for joining us ensuring this wonderful
wisdom that you've collected through the year.
Speaker 2 (56:00):
Thank you, Vic for having me and giving me the
opportunity and for all the good work you do.
Speaker 1 (56:07):
And thank you for joining us on Vox Novis. I'm
Victor la Voice Furman. Have a wonderful week.
Vox Novus, the new Voice, Vox Novas, the new dimension,
Vox Novas thought and movement leaders who will share from
their experience and offer tools to help us navigate our
rapidly changing world. My name is Victor Furman. Welcome to
(00:28):
Vox Novus, the New Voice. Karma is in our vocabulary,
but do we really know what it means? The word
is everywhere, not just in alternative spirituality and among Hindus
and Buddhists, but in news reports, ads, sitcoms, sports columns,
(00:54):
and the everyday conversation of people who wouldn't know the
Upanishads from US magazine. My guest this week on Box
novis Philip Goldberg, joins me to share a little karmic relief.
Philip Goldberg has been studying the world spiritual wisdom for
more than fifty years as a practitioner, teacher, and author.
(01:15):
His many books include American Veda from Emerson and the Beatles,
to Yoga and Meditation, and How Indian Spirituality Changed the West,
named one of the top ten Religion books of the
Year by the American Library Association. He has lectured and
taught at venues throughout North America and India, and conducted
(01:37):
online courses for platforms such as Spirituality and Practice, Embodied Philosophy,
and Hindu University of America. He hosts the podcast spirit
Matters with Philip Goldberg at Mind, Body, Spirit dot fm,
serves on the board of the Association for Spiritual Integrity,
and writes regularly on his substack, Practical Spirituality. His website
(02:02):
is Philip Goldberg dot com, and he joins me this
week to share his path and new book, Karmic Relief,
Harnessing the Laws of Cause and Effect for a joyful,
meaningful Life. Please join me in welcoming back, Philip Goldberg.
Welcome Phil, good to be back with you, Vic, Phil.
(02:24):
This is our third interview together.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Amazing is that a record?
Speaker 1 (02:30):
I actually have someone who has five interviews. I'm not
going to mention any names, but no, but three is
the next level of a record. So absolutely, okay, I'm honored,
thank you and congratulations for this wonderful and timely new book.
The last time you were on with me was in
twenty twenty and we were discussing your best selling book,
(02:53):
Spiritual Practice for Crazy Times, and I kidded you about
the fact that we were two boys from Brooklyn talking
about Eastern spirituality. For listeners meeting you for the first time,
please share your early path and how it led to
your calling.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
Well as you indicate, I grew up in Brooklyn before
it was hip like you, and when it was mostly
a working class melting pot, ethnic and religious melting pot.
And I grew up not just in a non religious household,
(03:33):
but an anti religious household. But then when I was
a college student, well, the period we think of as
the sixties with capital s erupted and I was one
of the many people searching for answers to the important
(03:57):
questions about life, and wondering how to live well and
have a fulfilling life and a not ordinary life, and
wondering what I was, who I was, how do I
fit into the rest of the cosmos. And as part
(04:18):
of those the zeitgeist at that time, I discovered books
about Eastern spiritual teachings. First Zen because I was fond
of the Beat poets, and then what we think of
as Yoga philosophy and Vedanta philosophy. Basically what the world
(04:42):
thinks of is Hinduism and Buddhism, but without the religious overlay,
and something about those teachings had a strong appeal for me,
and I just wanted to read as much as I could.
I became immersed in it, and everything pointed to the
(05:05):
importance of spiritual practices like mostly meditation at the time,
and what we think of as yoga, and so I
took them up as methods of self discovery and self improvement,
and they worked and they transformed my life, and I
(05:26):
got more deeply immersed in them, and years later I
became a teacher of meditation. And when I became when
I turned to what I think was my true calling
it professionally to write and speak and use my whatever
(05:47):
gifts with words I had, I naturally drifted to writing
about those subjects that had been so important to me
personally and less fifteen sixteen years that's been the focal
point of my writing, in public speaking and so forth.
So that's the nutshell version of it.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
And that's a wonderful nutshell. Before we get into karmic relief,
let's talk about spiritual practice for crazy times. What inspired
that book and what did you share with your readers.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
You know, it's odd, but the book came out shortly
after COVID erupted, and so we added a one paragraph
to the preface or the introduction. But most people thought
I wrote it because times were crazy, thanks to COVID.
(06:48):
But you know, I'd been working on the book for
a year or more prior to that. No one expected COVID.
But times were crazy, you know, beginning in twenty seventeen
eight team when the Trump era began, And so I
(07:08):
wrote the book because people were struggling with how to
make sense of things, and I thought spiritual practices of
various kinds were very important in the equation of how
to stay sane and how to stay stable and centered
(07:30):
while dealing with the eruption of changes in the world.
And then when COVID happened, it was just good timing. Well,
bad timing for the world, but good timing for a
book with that with that title. And so there it is.
And as the years go by, I find myself when
(07:52):
the subject comes up of saying, well, it's still crazy
and crazy in different ways, and so the book maintains
its relevance.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
Are you going to release it with a new forward?
Speaker 2 (08:07):
I could, but I don't think in a sense it's
not even necessary. If anybody doubts that were in crazy times,
they need more than a new forward to realize how
crazy things are.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
I remember an outstanding essay that you wrote entitled Spiritual
Responsibility in the Age of Black Lives Matter, And to
quote a line from that essay, you said, our long
overdue moment of reckoning is a spiritual challenge, not just
a social or political one. We're called upon to stretch
(08:44):
beyond our comfort zones, to introspect rigorously and self assess. Honestly,
that was five years ago. Where did we go wrong?
And what made me do about it?
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Well, I'm honored that you remembered that or dug it up.
I didn't remember it, but I would say the same
thing now, only you know, in a different context. And
the reason I did that is, you know, the eruption
of protests and everything after the murder of George Floyd
(09:20):
and the Black Lives Matter movement. It was a turning
point in our social contract in a sense. And as
somebody of a certain age who came of age in
the sixties during the Civil rights era, it was shocking
to me that people that the fact of racism and
(09:44):
what's called structural racism and all the you know, inequalities
that are systemic, that it wasn't just common knowledge that
it had to be revealed to people once again. And
I found that shocking. But maybe it's just a reflection
(10:05):
of my age or the times I grew up in.
And now I think, you know, we're facing a different
kind of danger and threat. And one of the reasons
I address that and have written certain things more recently
(10:27):
is that, well, at a certain point, there was a
tendency among spiritual people to think, oh, all this will pass,
and this is just the way of things, and if
we just continue to evolve us on a spiritual level,
(10:49):
it'll all take care of itself. And I felt that
there was a certain escapism in that, or a certain
denial or naivete that certain people who care about other
human beings and care about issues of justice and fairness
(11:13):
in the world and would like to see unnecessary suffering
ended had a responsibility to engage in the world and
not just think you can pray it or meditate it
or mindfulness it away. And I still feel that way.
(11:36):
I think there's great threats to our freedoms and our
democracy and what we hold dear, and people who are
spiritually aware and compassionate and care need to do more
to engage in actions that might make a contribution, whatever
(12:05):
that may be. I'm not calling on everybody to storm
the barricades. Not everybody's an activist, but anything we can
do to make the world a little better and not
just internalize our spirituality in the spirit of other spiritual
(12:26):
leaders who engaged in the world, whoever you want to
call upon as a role model, whether Jesus or Buddha,
or the prophets or Tick not Han or Martin Luther
King or whoever. There's a certain degree of engagement that
(12:47):
I think we're called upon to take up.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
At the time, you shared that the remedy for this
was taking on sacred citizenship. How do you define that
and is it still possible.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
I think it's not only possible, it's necessary, and I'm
very encouraged. You know, I'm involved with different aspects of
the spiritual community. I'm on the board of the Association
for Spiritual Integrity. I interview people on my own podcast
all the time. I talk to people, and I'm very
(13:29):
happy to hear that those signs of escapism and denial
that I talked about that I observed five six years
ago are not happening now. People care and people are
aware and being good spiritual citizens. It matters to people
(13:51):
that spirituality is an internal thing, and it's an individual thing.
Those of us who are in position of communicating teachings
to others or teaching them ourselves, we want to help
people develop the internal spiritual resources of expanded awareness, inner peace,
(14:18):
all those wonderful symptoms that go with spiritual growth. But
we also want them to not turn their backs on
their neighbors and their fellow citizens and the social and
political realities, because we have a special responsibility, because we
(14:39):
recognize the importance of the inner dimension of life as
well as outer security, outer peace, outer harmony, because one
feeds on the other. And so I think it's necessary.
I think it's not only possible, but.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
Absolutely What inspired your new book, Karma Relief Harnessing the
Laws of Cause and Effect for a Joyful, meaningful Life.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Well, you know, we talked about my early longstanding interest
in Eastern philosophy, and one key concept in that system,
those systems of ideas and insights is the concept of karma.
(15:36):
And so I became interested in it early on and
wondered if it was true and it was really the
case that there's justice in the universe and laws of
cause and effect analogous to the laws of physics are
in play, and that, as we say colloquially, we reap
(15:58):
what we sew. What goes around comes around. All of
our actions have a consequence in the world that comes
back to us, whether wanted or unwanted. And it's a
lovely framework for a fair and just universe. But is
it true? And so I wrestled with that for many
(16:20):
years and finally came to the conclusion that I can
neither prove it nor refute it. No one can, but
that it's a good bet. I decided, you know, to
err on the side of accepting karma as a reality,
(16:42):
because I noticed that when I made decisions, when I
looked at situations in life, assuming karma was true and
real and the universe was lawful in those ways, I
made better choices and I was a better person for it,
(17:06):
And so that became an interesting addition to how I
see the world, and to be honest, the title Karmic
Relief came before before the idea for a book, back
in the days when Robin Williams and Whoopi Goldberg and
(17:26):
Billy Crystal were doing the comic relief charity of TV shows.
I thought, I started using the term karmic relief, and
at one point I said, Gee, that would make a
good book title. Maybe I should write a book about karma.
And I put it on the shelf for a long time,
(17:47):
but it became more and more relevant because the word
karma kept being used in public more and more. I'd
hear it on sportscat, I'd hear it on news reports.
I'd hear it in pop songs. Taylor Swift has a
song about karma. Alicia Keys had a song about karma.
(18:10):
Willie Nelson had a song about karma. So I kept
seeing it and it showed up in everyday speech. But
I realized people have an intuitive understanding of what karma
is and means, but they often misconstrue it and get
it wrong. And so I kept thinking, maybe I should
(18:31):
do a book about it, and eventually my wife and
my agent convinced me to do it. And so here
it is.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
There it is. Where did the idea of karma originate?
And what does it really mean?
Speaker 2 (18:45):
The Sanskrit real translation is simply action, So you see
references to karma in the earliest literature of the Vedic
period of India as goes back thousands of years, usually
meaning action and then meaning ritual actions to create certain
(19:09):
effects in the world, and over time, at least as
they show up in the Oral traditions and the texts
from the East, it evolved into a deeper and more
nuanced explanation of action in general, and the notion that
(19:34):
everything we do, and not just do, but everything we
even think and say, has a consequence in the world
that is far reaching in its impact throughout the universe.
Almost like electrons and vibrations emanate through the universe, so
(19:57):
do the vibrations of our actions, our thoughts, and they
come back to us as what we think of, you know,
naively as good karma or bad karma, meaning there are consequences,
and some of those consequences are things were glad happened
to us, and others are things we wish didn't happen
(20:21):
to us based on what we've done in the past,
And we're creating new karma all the time. And that's
how at a certain period of the Eastern traditions it
began to be more and more articulated and eventually sophisticated
(20:41):
concepts of karma and explanations of karma came down and
they found their way to the West along with the
others aspects of Eastern teachings, and they eventually became part
of our vocabulary and our frame of reference. I think
if you ask most people if what karma means, they'll
(21:05):
have a pretty good approximation of, you know, we reap
what we sew or something like that. But then again,
as I said, it's a much more nuanced thing. And
I felt an explanation in a book that clarifies what
karma is and what it's not and why it's relevant
(21:29):
and useful concept if we want to live a happier life,
I felt the book would be useful.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
You know, it's interesting you would mention the pop songs
that feature karma, and I can only think back to
John Lennon's Instant Karma.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
Right, Instant Karma. It was one of the early ones,
early seventies. But then I did a search when I
thought about the book, and like more than one hundred
and fifty titles came up on iTunes with the word
karma or kara in the lyrics or the title, including,
as I said, Willie Nelson has Us had a song
(22:07):
called a little old Fashioned Karma, and then were recently
Alicia Keys and famously Taylor Swift and others. You know,
it was the song in the I think the eighties
called Karma Chameleon, remember that.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
One, boy George Karma Chamelion.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
Yes, but they all, most of them are about They're
in the genre of music of you've done me wrong
and now you're going to get it. You know, karma
is going to come after you, and we've That's how
most of us think. When you hear people use karma,
(22:49):
it's usually in the negative, like your team loses, they
have bad karma. Candidate does make some mistake, bad karma,
something happens in the world, it must be karma, bad
karma coming back to the person. But all the good
stuff is karma too, you know, and we forget that.
We're filled with blessings in our life all the time.
(23:13):
You know, it's good karma that I'm here talking to you,
and it's good karma that your listeners are maybe learning something.
And it's good karma that you got to check in
the mail today, or that you know you've got a
new job, or you met someone you love. All these
things are a product of good karma, and we forget
(23:35):
about that, but it's important to keep aware of it.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
My guest is Philip Goldberg. His new book Karmak Relief,
Harnessing the Laws of Cause and Effect for a joyful,
meaningful Life. Philip, please share with our listeners where they
can get all of your books and find out more
about you.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
Well. You get all of my books, including Karmak Relief
and the usual booksellers if you're If you like using Amazon,
it's there there. If you like using other booksellers online,
they are there. If you like going to your local bookstores,
which I encourage people to do, I hope the books
(24:14):
are in stock and they'll certainly order them for you.
My website is Philipgoldberg dot com. My sub stack, which
I write on fairly often, is called Practical Spirituality. My
podcast is called Spirit Matters.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
And we'll be back with more Phil after these words.
On the Own Times Radio network.
Speaker 3 (24:41):
The cutting edge of conscious radio. Home Times Radio I
own FM. Ome Times Magazine is one of the leading
online content providers of positivity, wellness and personal empowerment. A
philanthropic organization, their net proceeds are final to support worldwide
charity initiatives via Humanity Healing International. Through their commitment to
(25:03):
creating community and providing conscious content, they aspire to uplift
humanity on a global scale. Home Times co creating a
more conscious lifestyle.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
We're back with Philip Goldberg his brand new book Karma Relief,
Harnessing the Laws of Cause and Effect for a joyful,
meaningful Life, phil are the popular notions of what karma
is at all accurate?
Speaker 2 (25:29):
Oh, They're mostly accurate in the general sense. People know
that karma and the laws of karma are indicative of
a universe where everything we do matters and has consequences,
whether good or bad or indifferent, and that every karma,
(25:53):
if it's real, suggests that whatever we do has consequences
for us as well. So generally yes, But at the
same time, there's a lot of misconceptions, and I run
into misuses of the term or incomplete uses of the
(26:14):
term all the time. For example, I just mentioned in
the last segment that we have a tendency to think
of karma or use the term karma when bad things happen,
as if it were retribution by some cosmic judiciary for
(26:36):
us doing bad things in the world. But karma the
laws of karma apply to everything. Everything that happens is
the result of past karma. Everything we do now in
the present will produce karma in the future. So the
good things, the neutral things, and the negative things are
(26:58):
all the product of karma. In physics, there's the concept
that every action has an equal and opposite reaction, and
that applies to the material universe, you know, Newton's laws
and so forth. Karma is very similar. It suggests that
(27:19):
everything we do and say and think has an equal
and opposite reaction. So we send out everything reverberates through
the universe, and it affects other people and the environment
in different ways, to different degrees, depending on you know,
distance and the closeness of relationship and all those multiple factors,
(27:45):
and they come back to us in ways we can't
predict or necessarily anticipate. Sometimes it's obvious if you insult somebody,
the chances are you'll reap the consequences of being cruel
(28:06):
fairly quickly in some way or another. You're on a
red light, you might suffer the consequences immediately with a
ticket or an accident, or maybe not so. But some
things are sort of what John Lennon called instant karma.
But for most of our actions, they're much more subtle,
(28:28):
much more nuanced. They interact with the karma of other people.
So things get a little uncertain and unpredictable. But everything
is karma, and everything we do will come back to
us in one way or another at some time or another.
(28:50):
But it's not just retribution. It's not like somebody, you know,
some god figure is calculating re word words and punishment.
It's more like the laws of science. There are causes
and effects, just like there is if you throw a
pebble in a pond or hit a billiard ball on
(29:15):
a pool table. There's consequences that reverberate and bounce back.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
Are there things that are not part of karma?
Speaker 2 (29:27):
No, not, If you take the laws of karma seriously,
In the theory of karma seriously, everything in the manifest
world is a subject to the laws of karma. What's
not subject to the laws of karma is the spiritual realm,
(29:50):
the transcendent realm that's beyond time and space, that's beyond
causes and effects, beyond beyond forms and substances, the spirit,
the world of spirit that has different names depending on
(30:12):
the spiritual tradition you turn to, whether you call it
brumen or Buddha nature or in the West God, that
aspect of existence is beyond karma, and we can part
of my book is the importance of recognizing that and
(30:33):
accessing that aspect of existence, that eternal, infinite aspect of
existence we call spirit because it's the best and most
effective way of changing our karma, of putting ourselves in
a position to act effectively, to create better karma going forward,
(30:58):
and to neutralize the effect of past karma that's going
to continue to come our way. So when you say,
is anything not karma, the answer is no, because spirit
is not a thing, but the spiritual realm that we
think of as you know, divine and infinite and eternal.
(31:22):
That's beyond karma.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
And in the book you share that karma is about
doing the right things, but then also not about doing
the wrong things. How do we protect ourselves in that way?
Speaker 2 (31:36):
Well, you know, as my grandmother when I was growing
up in Brooklyn used to say, be nice. That's the
short answer. You know, every spiritual tradition has codes of
ethics and morality. Every secular system of ethics as dos
(32:05):
and don'ts that are not just for the sake of
social cohesion and social harmony and the welfare of others,
but for our own well being. That said, in some ways,
(32:27):
doing the right thing not doing the wrong thing is
encoded in various ways in different systems, and I would
invite listeners to turn to the system of ethics that
is most familiar to them and most comfortable. In the book,
I focused on the ethical systems that came from the
(32:50):
East because they specifically address or assume that karma is
part of this consideration. And when you look at that,
and you look at any ethical system, some of it
seems very simple. Be nice, do good things, be kind,
(33:10):
be generous, be loving, don't be selfish, don't be cruel,
don't hurt people. Essentially the golden rule. Do unto others
as you would have them do unto you. There's some
statement like that in every religious and spiritual tradition. There's
nothing particularly Christian or Jewish or Hindu or whatever about that.
(33:35):
It's universal. But then you get into nuances. So that's
where the subtleties of karma come in, and you know
different guidelines for how to be in the world and
how to treat other people, and how to engage in
(33:55):
your responsibilities to your community and or there are varieties
of that, and I devote some space in the book
to that, and I invite readers to explore that and
go a little deeper than just the ordinary ethical codes,
because it when you especially when you bring in the
(34:18):
spiritual dimension, it gets quite nuanced and quite subtle. But basically,
do the right thing, don't do the wrong thing, and
be aware. One of the things that paying attention or
assuming karma is real does for you is it may
make you a little more likely to think, well, what's
(34:40):
the right thing to do here? If I don't do
the right thing, there'll be consequences for me, So I
should do the right thing. And sometimes it's not necessarily obvious,
because life is complicated and our relationships with people are complicated.
(35:00):
So sometimes it takes a kind of intuitive sense of
what's right. Sometimes it takes seeking guidance from others or
you know, any other way we can make good decisions
in the world.
Speaker 1 (35:16):
Well, you had just mentioned about the golden rule, that
there's an iteration of that in virtually every religion around
the world. Is something that I learned when I attended
the New Seminary Interfaith back in the nineteen nineties, and
also while attending that seminary, one of the spiritual lessons
shared was everything is unfolding in divine order. We were
(35:40):
taught that we may not see it with human eyes,
but we will if we use our spiritual eyes. Is
that a Western iteration of karma?
Speaker 2 (35:49):
No, well, it's Western in the sense that it's English
and framed in a certain way. But you find the
same prince in Hinduism and all the what's so called
Dharmic traditions Hinduism, Buddhism especially, but also Jains and Seeks
(36:12):
and Dallists. You'll see similar things and just expressed in
different words, that everything happens for a reason, whether we
can decipher it or not. And sometimes we can attune
ourselves and have a sense of why things are happening
(36:36):
or and if not, that's okay. Just knowing that things
are unfolding on a level beyond our comprehension in ways
that have antecedents in the past and are unfolding in
(36:58):
a certain way. It doesn't absolve us of responsibility, though,
and that's a danger in thinking, well, it's God's will
or the universe is, you know, doing presenting us with
you know, phenomena that we can't comprehend. But it's all good,
(37:21):
it's all unfolding as it needs to do. It doesn't
mean we don't intervene and we don't contribute, you know.
Martin Luther King famously alluded to that when he said
the arc of the moral universe is long, but it
bends toward justice. And that's historically true. But we can't say, well,
(37:44):
it'll bend toward justice, so we don't have to do anything.
Maybe we need to help it bend or bend it
more quickly in the right direction. But yes, And one
of the things that's important about karma is there's a
line in the Bagavad Gita that says that karma, the
(38:08):
ways of karma, meaning the details the minutia are unfathomable
beyond the comprehension of human beings. You see the same
thing in the Book of Job. Essentially, you know, God
appears to Job and says, you know, you can't understand
this vast, complicated cosmos and why things unfold as they do.
(38:36):
Don't even try. It's a waste of time. But if
you accept this is what the universe is putting before
me at this moment. I didn't anticipate it, I didn't
want it, but I accept that it's the result of
my past karma. You accept that, and then you take
responsibility for how you respond in the moment, because what
(39:01):
you do now in the face of reality will determine
your karma going forward. We're always experiencing the effects of
past karma. We're always creating future karma in the moment,
in the present. And that you don't even have to
accept all the laws of karma as a cosmic phenomenon
(39:25):
to understand that. Any good psychotherapist will tell you, well,
things are happening to you. Now, accept the reality, learn
the lessons that have to be learned, and make the
right choices going forward.
Speaker 1 (39:42):
You had touched upon this before. Tell us more about
some of the karma spiritual practices.
Speaker 2 (39:49):
Well, I'm a big advocate and practitioner of meditation. I've
been meditating every day since nineteen sixty eight, when I
was a toddler. But so I have learned the effectiveness
(40:15):
of meditation practices when they're done regularly and when they're
deep and authentic. So that's always been the centerpiece of
my spiritual repertoire and what I advocate for others some
(40:36):
form of deep inward turning, whether you call it meditation
or mindfulness or prayer or whatever. There's of course, one
of the blessings of the modern world is that we
have a tremendous variety of practices available at our fingertips
(40:56):
that we can learn. It's also a bit of a
because we have to make smart choices. There's a lot
of nonsense out there as well as a lot of
effective practices. But there are practices that would be suitable
for everybody, and so it's a question of looking into
them and finding what works for you and then supplementing it.
(41:21):
I would say with practices that are done before meditation
or after meditation, prayer, chanting, congregational worship, physical practices like
yoga and tai chi. I mean, there's a huge variety,
(41:44):
and I recommend that people find practices that suit their
needs and that are effective. And how do we know
they're effective? In my estimation, you judge it not by
what happens during the practice, but how it affects your
life afterward. Are you more at peace? Do you are
(42:06):
you less subject to anger? And irruption of loss of
temper or anxiety or depression. Are you more likely to
behave in a kind and loving manner? Are you more
likely to have maintained some peace and equanimity even when
(42:29):
things go bad? So you can make smart decisions? Evaluate
your practices. Don't just do them because someone says you
should try different practices. But the key to me is
setting aside time every day for some form of inward practice,
(42:52):
because you will notice a difference in your life afterward.
Speaker 1 (42:58):
His new book Kermic Relief, Harnessing the Laws of Cause
and Effect for a joyful, meaningful Life. Will be back
with more of Phil Goldberg after these words on the
Own Times Radio network.
Speaker 4 (43:11):
Humanity Healing International is a small nonprofit with a big dream.
Since two thousand and seven, HHI has been working tirelessly
to bring help to communities with little or no over
Our projects are not broad mandates, nor are they overnight solutions,
but they bring the reassurance then no one is alone
(43:31):
and that someone cares. To learn more, please visit Humanityhealing
dot org. Humanity Healing is Where your Heart Is.
Speaker 1 (43:41):
Back with Phil Goldberg, we're talking about his brand new book,
Karmak relief, harnessing the laws of cause and effect for
a joyful, meaningful life. Phil What are the differences or
are there differences between the words karma and dharma?
Speaker 2 (44:00):
Good one vic, Well, there are differences, but they're very complementary.
Karma we've been talking about, so there's no need to
define it. Dharma is an equally nuanced concept. It's often
(44:22):
translated as duty duty, but that is rather inadequate. Dharma
has to do with that which upholds, that which sustains.
So something is in accord with dharma if it sustains life,
(44:50):
if it sustains growth and development and well being, and
it applies throughout the universe. But we think of it
mainly in terms of our behavior. So each of us
has a dharma to the people in our family. So
(45:13):
I have the we have the dharma of a son
or daughter to a parent. We have the dharma of
a parent to our children. We have the dharma of
a sibling to our brothers and sisters and so on
and so forth. We have a dharma as a professional,
uh which, so if you're a doctor, you have your
(45:36):
dharma is to heal and do no harm. If you're
hosting a podcast or your dharma is to convey information
and truth. So there everything has a specific dharma, or
in a traditional society it would be laid out as
this is your duty, this is what you must do
(45:57):
in this context, in that context text, in this role
that you play in life, and so forth. That's how
it was traditionally. These days, in our complex world, sometimes
it's a little difficult to sort out what our dharmic
duty or responsibility is in any situation. But essentially, if
(46:20):
you are tuned into your dharma as a professional, as
a family member, as a member of a community, in
terms of your callings and responsibilities in life, you will
behave in a way that's harmonious with your environment, and
(46:40):
therefore you'll be creating good karma for yourself and others.
If you go against dharma, then it's you're creating negative
karma and unwanted consequences will follow, so they complement one
another in that way.
Speaker 1 (47:02):
Does karma exist between conscious beings and material things that
we do not attribute consciousness to.
Speaker 2 (47:10):
That's interesting, you would have to say yes, because we
know we impact the material environment. Look what we look at,
just look at climate change and the effects of human
behavior on the natural environment. I mean, if you know,
(47:33):
if we toss a can of motor oil in the
local creek, we're creating that's we're doing something with karma consequences.
And if we do that intentionally knowing it's harmful, presumably
(47:55):
the consequences will come back to us in some way
that we would not be happy about because we're doing
something harmful to the natural world and potentially to other
human beings. So, yes, everything we do has an effect
that reverberates through the universe. It may affect I mean,
(48:17):
what I'm saying now is affecting my teeth, my camera
and my microphone and the desk in some way because
words sounds have vibratory impact, but the effects are inconsequential,
knowing nothing's happening that I could see to my desk
(48:42):
or the monitor or my computer. But if I say
something nasty or harmful, then that has consequences because of
the meaning of my words, and not affect the desk,
(49:02):
but it's going to affect the listeners and so forth.
So you could say that everything we do as an
effect on everything that it touches in terms of energy.
But some of the effects are inconsequential and some are important.
Speaker 1 (49:24):
Is there a way of correcting karma for mistakes made
during a lifetime.
Speaker 2 (49:31):
Absolutely, and that's a critical part of what I wrote
about in Karmic Relief. We've done things in the past,
all of us, so unwanted. Things are going to happen.
No matter how happy our lives are, no matter how
blessed we are, no matter how evolved and deeply spiritual are,
(49:54):
Stuff's going to happen. We're going to suffer loss, are
going to get sick, We're going to lose loved ones,
We're going to be disappointed. You know, our team will
lose our you know, stock portfolio will go down or
(50:16):
up or whatever. Things happen. The world is complex and
there's always a certain amount of you could say, suffering
or pain or discomfort or discontent that is inevitable in
the midst of happiness and joy and love and all
the good things. So can we ameliorate or neutralize the
(50:45):
effects of negative karma from the past. The answer is
decidedly yes. And all the teachings on karma emphasize that.
There's a chapter in my book titled Avert the Danger
that has not Yet Come, and one of the factors
(51:05):
in that is, to behave in the present so that
your karmic balance sheet, so to speak of good karma
and bad karma, improves. And then if something negative happens,
if challenges arise, whether they're physical or mental, or emotional
(51:31):
or social, we're better equipped to respond effectively. And if
we have a deep inner reservoir of stability and strength
and inner peace, whence stuff happens, it won't shake us
(51:54):
up as much, we won't suffer as much, and we'll
be able to make smarter DEI visions about how to
handle the situation and what to do going forward. A
long time ago, I was blessed to hear a spiritual
teacher use an analogy, very practical analogy. If you take
(52:19):
out a loan for business purposes or mortgage or whatever,
at a certain point, that loan is going to come
do like that. You do things in the world, you behave,
you make decisions, It's like taking out alone. The consequences
(52:42):
will come back, and what you do will come do So,
if you do something slightly dishonest or harmful to somebody
else or selfish, it'll come back to you at some point.
Then the question is what do you do in the interim.
In the case of alone, if you're careless with your money,
(53:05):
if you don't bother to earn enough, then when the
loan comes due, it's going to be hard. It's going
to hit you hard. You're going to suffer, You're going
to be you know, it's going to be pain. It's
going to be priced to pay. If, on the other hand,
you're conscientious and you earn money and you're you save
(53:27):
money and you're responsible with your money, when the loan
comes due, it'll be you know, it'll roll off your back,
you know, in a proverbial way, because it'll you have savings,
you have a reservoir. And it's similar with our internal qualities.
(53:49):
If we develop ourselves and in a way that gives
us inner strength and stability. I mean, if bad karma happens,
we'll handle it well. We'll look at it as a lesson,
which is I think a terribly important part of karmic relief.
(54:14):
Understanding whatever happens to be part of our lesson plan
and ask ourselves, what can I learn from this, and
how can I do things better moving forward so it
doesn't happen again and good things happen instead, and so yes,
that's a big part of the equation and I'm glad
(54:35):
you asked the question.
Speaker 1 (54:37):
His new book, Karmak Relief, Harnessing the Laws of Cause
and Effect for a joyful, meaningful Life, my guest Philip Goldberg.
Phil one more time, please share with our listeners where
theyn get all of your wonderful books and find out
more about you.
Speaker 2 (54:53):
My books are available on the usual online booksellers, from
Amazon to the Independence, and I hope local bookstores and
libraries which I want to support. They can learn more
about me at Philipgoldberg dot com. They can subscribe to
my substack writings on practical spirituality, and they can tune
(55:20):
into my interviews with wonderful guests on Spirit Matters podcast.
Thanks you for asking, vic.
Speaker 1 (55:28):
Oh absolutely, and I understand you're going to be making
two appearances here in New York in December.
Speaker 2 (55:34):
Yes, book related for Karmic Relief. I'll be at Tibet
House on December sixth, one o'clock at a Saturday, one
o'clock in the afternoon, and I'll be at the Vedanta
Society on the Upper West Side on Sunday morning, December seventh, Phil.
Speaker 1 (55:55):
Thank you so much for joining us ensuring this wonderful
wisdom that you've collected through the year.
Speaker 2 (56:00):
Thank you, Vic for having me and giving me the
opportunity and for all the good work you do.
Speaker 1 (56:07):
And thank you for joining us on Vox Novis. I'm
Victor la Voice Furman. Have a wonderful week.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, And Charlamagne Tha God!