10 YRS AGO - FLAGSHIP: Keller & Powell talk Summerslam and Raw fallout including babyface depth without Cena, too much of the McMahons, more - Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Wade fifty to get fifty percent off. Now pw Door, Jan Spreaker bring
you the Wade Killer Pro Wrestling Podcastten years ago. This week, Jason

(02:37):
Powell from Progressing dot Net joined meon the play shift and we talked about
the follow out from SummerSlam and theraw after SummerSlam, including the baby Face
depth chart without John Cena. Wealso talked about the pairing of RVD and
Ricardo, also too much of theMcMahons, Darren Young's push, and more.
So Let's get to it. Thisis the Wade Killer Pro Wrestling Podcast

(03:00):
ten years ago. Flakeship Flashback forThursday August twenty fourth, twenty twenty three.
Here we go. Welcome to ZPWteorch Live Cast. I am Wade
Keller, editor and publisher of thePro Wrestling Torch newsletter since nineteen eighty seven
and also the website pewtorch dot comsince nineteen ninety nine and now the PW

(03:23):
Torch Apps since two thousand and nine, and host of the PW Torch Live
Cast since two thousand and ten.I'm here on Tuesdays and Friday's This Friday.
We always do interviews on Fridays.This Friday, Sean Waltman Xbox six
We'll be joining us for the entireshow. He'll be our special interview on
Friday. He will be talking abouta major forty eight hour period in WWE

(03:46):
from Summerslammed through Raw last night.So we invite you to join us live
five thirty Eastern two thirty Pacific timethis Friday. Four the PW Torch livecast
last Friday. My guest, alongwith co host Bruce Mitchell, was legendary
n WA referee in the nineteen eighties. Tommy Young. Those who have watched

(04:08):
big n WA matches, especially RickFlair matches, might know him as the
guy who gets into shoving matches withRick Flair. A really fun two hour
fifteen to our twenty minute interview withTommy Young, the longest interview I think
he's ever done. And Bruce Mitchell, who was based in that territory where
Tommy Young did referee his biggest matches, was able to really give them interesting

(04:29):
stories out there about a wide varietyof people, including a new information on
Nature Boy Buddy. All I canthink about is nature Boy Buddy Landell.
Who am I Rogers? Thank you? I totally totally blinked out their embarrassing
fashion Nature Roy Buddy Rogers interesting storyon why he just disappeared from the scene.

(04:51):
So anyway, I definitely recommend checkingthat one out. It's a good
history lesson. It's entertaining a lotof details on Rick Flair and just a
lot of insight into what it's liketo be a rep for re The mystery
voice that I just leaned on formy momentary lapse of of of remembering a
historical name. What's Jason Powell ofPro Wrestling dot Net We host on two

(05:12):
days here on the PW Torch LiveCast. Jason, Welcome to Tuesday's livecast.
Hey, great to be here.In anyone who happened to have Rogers
in the pool for the first wordout of my mouth today, you had
to have some pretty good odds onthat. And for for that kind of
wit and humor, always go toPW Torch. I'm sorry, Pro Wrestling
dot Net and read Jason's take onthe news of the day because you cracked

(05:34):
me up, you know, onceevery two or three days, Jason,
I'll take that. That's not bad. Yeah, all right. Anyway,
chat room is open for those whoare listening to us live. Jason so
much talk about I did a likeforty seven minute recap of Raw last night
for VIP members after Raw was over, with my detailed rundown of the entire

(05:55):
show. You did a special uhdot net live blog talk radio show night
about twenty minutes after Ron ended,And why don't we start with a plug
for that, because we're not gonnabe able to get to everything on today's
show that happened the last forty eighthours, and we're gonna take a lot
of phone calls, so let's writeoff the bat. Let people know that
when our show is over, ifthey're not if they haven't listened yet,

(06:15):
where they can go to listen towhat was it one hour Jason ninety minute
special that Chris Shure and Will Prueand I got together to do and we
took all sorts of phone calls anddiscussed raw SummerSlam. There was even a
little bit of t and a.There was a Smoky Mountain Wrestling call at
the very end of things when thingsquickly spiled spiral just totally out of control
in the last two minutes of theshow. But it's available at blog talk

(06:38):
radio dot com, slash pro wrestlingdot net. The key there is spell
out dot net, pro Wrestling dO t n et for those of you
who have spelling issues. It's blogtalk radio dot com slash pro wrestling dot
net. And Travis Bryant was kindenough to correct or not correct, but
just clarify that with Bruce yesterday whenhe did mention the show. They have

(06:59):
to spell out very good. Ourphone banks are open, people are lining
up already. Six four six seventwo one nine eight two eight is a
number. That's six four six seventwo one nine eight two eight. Jason,
so many things. This is Isaid this on my VIP hotline last
night. This four to eight hourstretch is what makes being a pro wrestling
fan so exciting and invigorating and compelling. Yes, there's a stretch here and

(07:26):
there where we get phone calls.I'm not watching wrestling anymore. It's boring.
They're spinning their wheels. But man, those last forty eight hours,
I mean some good, some bad, mostly good. Just an amazing reset
for a kind of a setting upof things for the fall season. Top
story, though, isn't all theshenanigans and angles and storylines. It was
the announcement by John Cina that hewill be out. He said, what

(07:47):
four to six months? Jason,Yeah, four to six Yeah. So
that means in athletes speak, andthis is not just w W E,
not just John Cina. It meanshe's hoping to get back in three months
so that he can break about beating. Doctors estimate it's by a whole month.
Although let's see this time of theyear. I don't know about you.
I might take the full six monthsand enjoy the holidays. If over

(08:07):
him, well that's what he will. Well, he's he's the type who,
at least in theory, goes stircrazy if he's not doing stuff.
That said, his injury would notnecessarily keep him away from being on the
road or being on TV for thatmatter, John Cena being away for a
couple of months and then w Wannouncing he will be on the show to
address what has happened since he wasgone. They can do that. If

(08:28):
they need a ratings boost in October, they definitely can. And you know,
I think this sets up Let's sayhe takes the full time he and
Shamus. I mean, that's anice one two punch to come back during
wrestlemanny A season on top of whoeverelse they bring back Undertaker obviously, but
if there's a Rock or a SteveAustin or any celebrity involvement, that's they're

(08:50):
gonna really be able to load upwrestlemanny A season if those guys stay out
that long. Rod GM and thechat room is predicting John Cena will be
back next week, Yes, Ithink. I mean, I've been an
advocate of giving wrestler's mandatory time offtop the bottom of the card on some
sort of a rotation where you know, it didn't really notice at any given
time that too many people were gone, just to refresh, And I think
John Cena has been doing good work. I think last week he showed some

(09:13):
mental fatigue on a promo. Onceit got rolling, it was really good.
I just think he doesn't know howtired he is, and he won't
know it until he exhales. Andhe's probably exhaling today for the first time.
Not having to worry about packing hisbags to go on the road for
house shows, an international tour,or prepare for TV. He can give
his body arrest. Not that henecessarily will, you know, just end

(09:33):
up looking like Jake Roberts before pictureat the DDP compound. But he probably
can say, Okay, I'm gonnalike relax for a minute, not necessarily
have to hit the gym Aszard andgive his body I think a rejuvenation that
it needs in a little mental break, in a physical break. So this
could actually be really good for himbecause it doesn't sound like a debilitating,
scary injury. Otherwise, I knowthere's some you know, question marks about

(09:54):
what a torn triestep lead to aswollen elbow like that. It's possibly a
two injuries. One is really visualand ones not. I don't think it
matters that much. He's going underthe knife to have his tries so prepared.
I don't think WWE would be allowedJason to lie about that, given
that they're publicly held company and seenas their top star. Well, I
could see. I mean they lieabout I don't want to say lie,

(10:18):
but they put out that time forhim for when he's back, and we
question that, Well that's true,that's true. Well, mate, I
mean maybe maybe doctors he can leanon the doctor and say, well,
that's what the doctor said. Butyou know, wink nod. Doctors know
they're supposed to overestimate so athletes don'tlook bad. Sure, yeah, that's
fair. It's probably pretty routine thatdoctors overstate things so they don't look bad

(10:41):
if if the athlete comes back toosoon and gets hurt again. Right,
but yeah, yeah, well interestingstuff. So John Seene has gone for
a while, Daniel Bryan the defacto lead baby Face. Randy Orton turns
heel he would have been the otherdefactor lead baby face. The baby face
depth chart Jason is I'll just callit interesting at the moment. I mean,

(11:01):
what Christierico's gone? What what Imean, what is the what is
the depth chart right now? Foruh? For w w E. Well,
I mean you obviously have Daniel Bryanand cm Punk are are basically one
two, and I don't even knowthe order on that. I guess one
for Brian's because he's feuding with McMahon, so he'll probably get the most attention,

(11:24):
but Punk probably number one with alot of people, and he's going
to get the better attention because I'mstill convinced Paul Hayman has a lot to
do with the storytelling of their angle. And then there's a big drop,
you know, I mean, DolphSiegler's in that mix. I thought Rob
vand is probably number three based onwhat happened last night being paired with Ricardo.

(11:46):
Well, no, I'm going afterdel Rio. No very true?
Yeah yeah, yeah yeah yeah.And then and then we have a case.
I mean Rob vendeb just for that, he couldn't He can headline a
house show. He's got that thatlegacy star power, he's fresh. If
he's facing the world champion. Ifthey have Punk and Brian on one show,
you can headline with Rob Van Damnand not have fans go wait a

(12:07):
second, what are you trying topull on us? Oh definitely, yeah,
yeah, especially you know, it'sbasically they don't call it the SmackDown
tour anymore. But that's what itis. And if that, they're playing
two smaller venues, and I thinkthat's probably you know, one of the
better recent main events I can thinkof that they've had him. And is
it any worse than I'm not talkingmatch quality, I'm just talking star power

(12:30):
wise. Is it any worse thanDolphin del Rio, which is what they
had been doing for a little bit. No, No, I don't think
so, especially all cooled off Dlphhas gone, and then he got Christian
who's coming off of a big push. So you know, the fact that
he was at Summer Slim in theworld title match, I think helps just
perception wise, even if people aren'tpaying money to see him, when he's
on the show, they feel likethey're not seeing some lower card guy who's

(12:50):
washed up. They're seeing a guywho just you know, sort of co
headlined you know, Summer Slim inthe sense that he was in the world
title match, and you have BigShow coming back in a baby face role,
and you have Mark Henry is areally turned face, and you still
have Cane in the mix. SoI mean, it's not what it was
when you had Sena and Orton andJericho. But it's not it's not awful.
I mean, they can make thisway and why going to have the

(13:11):
key part of that? Yeah,and losing Shamus also, that's right,
big show Mark Henry will feud withthe Shield. It looks like I don't
know what If Van dam is movingon to the world title picture, I
guess that opens up a slot forsomeone going out for the US title.
Maybe that's Christian, I'm not sure, but it's they don't have the depth
that they wanted it. I meanthey're it's I don't they're light on top.
Anytime you lose John Cena, you'regonna be light on top. But

(13:33):
it just doesn't feel like it feelslike they need to do something to kind
of balance this out. Looking ahead, I was pre writing some stuff or
dotting it daily for Friday and doingthe house show lineups, and it's like
one of the house show tours youused to. If you go on their
live events page, you usually seeJohn Cena, CM Punk and whoever.
You know, there's usually three peoplein the photo. They're so bare right

(13:54):
now the photo is the Shield.Wow. Yeah, it's like the old
in the yatch and then a coupleof other guys are the only people advertised,
but we're one of the one ofthe house show tours. Wow.
Well, anyway, let's let's let'suh, let's seven one makes we we
there's so much talk about we canlet another. I always say this,
but we can talk another fifteen minutesand not even know what it passed.

(14:16):
So let's see what college have tosay. I'm curious what's on their minds
coming out of last forty eight hours, and we'll let them lead the way
going forward. This is the PWTorch Livecast. I am Wade Keller.
You can find us at PW torchlivecast dot com and you can also email
us questions for the show. Wegot a lot of them sent to us
for later in the show or inthe VIP after show. You can email

(14:37):
us right now or for future showsat p W Torch Livecast at gmail dot
com. And I also invite youto start start sending in questions for Sean
Waltman on Friday again, same address, PW Torch Livecast at gmail dot com.
And I just put you know questionfor Sean Waltman in the subject line

(14:58):
so we can sort through it prettyquick. Jason, someone in chet romask,
is there an update on what thestory was with Seeing Kara and an
injury update on Seth Rollins a Sethrow. I mean, I don't think
they would have had Rollins back outthere if there was any major concern.
He came back after he came upholding his leg at one point, and
then he was really wasn't putting muchweight on. If he watched that Triple
Power mom they put on, Ithink it was was a big show at

(15:22):
that point or maybe whoever it was, he was kind of like just using
one arm and not putting any weighton the leg. But then he came
back later in the show and wasdoing his usual. I mean, he
looked like he was a little discomfortthere, but I don't think it's serious
Sykara. Basically, it sounds likehe just dislocated a finger, but they
were going to wait wait to givethe official diagnosis until after they did X

(15:43):
rays, and I just haven't seenan update on that yet. What did
that work though, the way?I mean, if that was all improvised,
Jason del Rio came across like areal villain, I mean, doctor
stepping into check on him and andhe stomps on him. I mean that
that seemed like a skit to meby the time it was all over,
because they were thinking on their feetto make that, make that look that
was an opportunity for del Rio tolook like a real ass. It was

(16:07):
and I almost wonder did he looklike too much of an ass to WWE
because it knows there's there's been therehave been issues within car and del Rio
dating back to their time in Mexico. And I mean, there's a guy
injured, the trainers tending to him, looks like the referee stepping in,
and del Rio almost looked like hewas just kind of blowing everyone off,

(16:27):
like screw this, We're gonna keepdoing this, and they had to pull
him off. Yeah, yep,interesting stuff. And del Rio sporting a
black guy from an out of ringincidents. Did Jayson you heard details on
who all was involved. It justsounds like it was del Rio got into
a got into an altercation at abar, and Drew McIntyre to help him

(16:49):
out. I haven't heard more thanthat if there's more to the story,
but I didn't no police reports thatwe've seen or anything like that. So,
but a man he got messed upthat both eyes and then his ear
just looked gnarly. And I haven'theard the word narlyis like in fifteen years.
I love it. Yeah, Ilike breaking that out. And it's
not even like in a Shurfer way. No. Well, and then uncouth.

(17:11):
We got uncouth last night from wasit Stephanie. That's a good word.
I know it needs to be usedmore often, I said on my
hotline last night for VFP members.I bet that word hasn't been spoken in
months anywhere in the world. Youknow, it's just such a unique word,
you know, it's such a sucha very specific and kind of out
of a word. And somebody,somebody posted on Twitter I think that he
used that word just yesterday. SoI was wrong on that, but uncouth

(17:33):
and narly, I would have madehim prove it. Well. I don't
know how you would prove it,but maybe if it was an email,
he could prove it. Send mea happy an email. Thank you for
subscribing to the Waight Keller Pro Wrestlingpodcast and Waight Keller Pro Wrestling post shows.
Don't forget we got a whole lineupof other shows called the PW Torch
Daily Casts. It's free. Justsearch pw torch in your Podcast staff a
different show on a different topic throughoutthe week, including shows dedicated to a

(17:57):
e w n X MMA, Ringof Honor and more. Just search PW
torch in your Podcast stapp or checkout links to the latest shows at our
main website, pwtorch dot com.All right, I set, I was
going to calls. I want togo to calls, and I'm trying to

(18:18):
think if there's one thing I wantedto plug. I guess not. I
got plenty of time for that.Let's let's jump on the phone banks.
We'll go to A five six onefirst and then seven one six five six
one. Please state your name andwhere you're from. Hey, wait a
Jason, This is Matt from NorthCarolina. Has a gone doing good?
Matt? How you doing very good? I just have a couple of topics.

(18:38):
I just want to get your thoughtson them. I was I haven't
watched the pay per view in awhile, but I went out to the
bar to see this one, andI was trying to buy a lot of
fans who seem to think it wasreal, which is always fun. If
some of the comments were interesting,uh one was one guy said yeah,
I don't know where the pay perviews anymore because they never finished the matches,
and he thought it was real.So I thought that was kind of

(19:00):
interesting, which is a testament toyou know, the way w W book
said his reflection on the company.The crowd is really pro Brian on Raw
last night, the crowd booing Cinowhen he said he was going home to
injured, like I've never I've neverseen a crowd boost somebody for saying I'm
I'm injured and I have to gohome. He was asking for it though,

(19:22):
you know he said, and thusI have to leave the w W
E. He didn't say have totake injury hide as he likes, said
it because I think he was.He was looking for it, and he
smile his reaction. He got akick out of it. Yeah, the
best for business line storyline, LikeI get what they're going for, but
the line is kind of vague,like when the whole crowd is channing for

(19:42):
Daniel Bryan and buying tickets, likeI would like to see them try and
explain that further, because when you'rewatching it, it just doesn't make sense.
I thought it was funny when TeddyLong was clapping like an idiot for
McMahon and Randy Orton when he's supposedto be a face. I didn't even
notice any any of those things.Yeah he did. There's two shots of
him doing it. The only questionI have is when see him Punk is

(20:04):
out there calling I thought his promowas great, but when he's calling calling
a fan fat in the front.Uh, and then it's followed up by
i'd be a stark commercial, Ithought that was kind of uncous and uh,
kind of Matt. I don't know. I just that struck me.
I was like, he's a baby'sface and he's picking on somebody, Like

(20:26):
right back. It's a good promo, but yeah, Matt, the crowd
ate it up. Jason. Wasthat Was that a plant and all worked
out? Or did Punk here someoneand go improvised on his own. I
think he's capable of both. He'scertainly capable. I mean, I guess
I leaned toward it was unplanned,but I could be totally missing the boat
there. But come on, theman had it coming. He was overweight

(20:48):
and he booed. That's right.I I if it was improvised. I
have a feeling w w A thetop executives loved it privately, and we're
freaking out from a corporate responsibility standpoint. It's like Hunter Hunter and Stephanie was
saying, it's not like we liketo we liked what we did. We

(21:10):
like you, Daniel Bryan, butwe have to for business. Rick Flayer
over the weekend. Yeah, yeah, so we're gonna talk about that later
too. But the I think itPunk did that on his own it.
You know, he went out thereobviously trying to convey that he was stressed
out, worked up, you know, and really probably got himself very riled

(21:30):
up for that promo and some guy, you know, he snapped at some
guy. I think it's I thinkit was weird. I one hundred percent
agree with our caller Matt that itwas inappropriate. CM Punk prize himself on
not worrying about what is appropriate,and the crowd loved it, so he

(21:51):
can justify it based on the factthat they erupted with a CM punk chant.
It's there's Jason, there's good andbad that comes with sampunk if that
was done as a plant, butthey're going to deny it because you know,
they wanted to seem real. Itwas a way to cement Seaham Punk's
character and push the limit a littlebit. I'm kind of with you.
I think I'm leaning towards Punk.Just did it on an impromptu basis,

(22:15):
uh and just extemporaneously responded to aguy who got on his nerves. Maybe
he went out there looking for it. You know. It's like Rick Flaurer,
I said, you know, youknow I always called some fan in
the crowd fat boy, but hewas actually never looking at a fan,
you know, he was always justmaking it up for you know, just
because the crowd wouldn't know any better. In this case, Punk really single
someone out. It's it's it wasan interesting scene. It was one of
one of probably twenty interesting things thathappened last you know, in the previous

(22:38):
four to eight hours. So thousandsof people can cheer when John Cena says
he's going to take time off andthen one guy Booze see him Punk and
loses his mind or just laughs itoff. Well that Jason doest Let's psychoanalyze
or not psychoother But just does Seampunkhave a rep for having a temper and
being thin skinned or do you thinkthat he was totally under control and simply

(23:02):
playing the part of somebody going unhingedand acting relatively unprofessional because he knew he
would he would get off on thefact that the fans would eat it up.
I think he's he has a forgetting, you know, back in
the dame, or he could getlet people get under his skin, you
know, even backstage, and thencome out and be all full of piston
vinegar. I mean, the bigincident that I think stands out is when

(23:25):
he dropped the gay F bomb ata fan. So I mean, I
guess that's one incident where he'd lethis temper get the best of him,
and fortunate, you know, heplayed it right. Just for anyone who
didn't catch that has no idea whatI'm talking about. He just came out
and it was I think it wasthe H bomb what I thought he's called.
I thought he called the fan homo, not the off word. Oh

(23:45):
you know, if he did,okay, then I then I stand corrected.
But but nevertheless it was still hewas you know, it was an
anti gade derogatory terms. So yeah, and he came right out and and
said, you know, he didn'tdo the apologize to anyone who was offended.
He said, I was a douche. His apology was great. Yeah,
it was about the best apology I'veseen in those circumstances. Yeah,

(24:06):
it's a it's a rare case whereyou can do something really bad. You
know, you can well, youknow, you can do something that's kind
of crappy and actually end up lookinglike a better person within twenty four hours
because of how you handle it.And he turned you know, a loss
into a win. But and alsothink about when he was in the crowd
and he hit the he hit afan who he thought was agitating him last
year and it turned out he hitsthe wrong fan, you know. There,

(24:26):
I mean, I think there's enoughevidence that Punk has issues with its
temper and you know, but butit's you know, manageable. But yeah,
I mean, who knows what kindof legit pain and stress he was
going under after the whole Lesner match, and he's probably feeling a lot of
pressure to try to you know,carry that, carry the company even more

(24:48):
than before was seen it going awayfor a while and shame us out,
hurt and Jericho gone, and whoknows what else is going on with him?
So or someone shaid hey, orhe got a look at the script
for the the final segment should waiteveryone asked to stand they were on the
stage. Well, Daniel Bryan getsbeat down. Well that that's that's a
big topic. Yeah, I mean, yeah, that was. That was
bad. I just wrote about thatand asked the SPW torch feature. Actually

(25:12):
it was a VIP exclusive section ofit. That's a whole topic. Anyway,
Matt, you threw a few thingsat us. It did Did we
cover all of it? Or youwant to have us follow up on something?
Uh No, that was I wasjust the only I think I was
gonna say it was. Lesner reallyimpressed me at the pay per view for
a guy who's only had five matchesback to go out and have that match.
Was seeing Punky did I was reallyimpressed. And v IP member,

(25:34):
I love what you guys do.WW is really exciting right now. So
it's a fun time to follow thecontent. Yes it is. Thanks Matt,
appreciate it, Appreciate your membership.All right, let's let's go next
to seven to one six, andthen on deck two oh two and four
oh eight and many more after that. Seven one six. Please stay your
name and where you're from. Hey, guys, this is dotten that member.
Mike from Buffalo, how you guysdoing today? Doing great? What

(25:57):
have you got for us? Uh? Real quick, I think I don't
know. I think I'm in theminority with this. I'm not a huge
fan of the Shield being out there, like basically being the modern day version
of the Big boss Man for thecorporation, you know, Like I don't
know. To me, it's it'sa little nitpicky. You know, wrestling

(26:18):
is w W. E has beenyou know, firing on those cylinders.
So it's a little nitpicky. Butit didn't bother me that the Shield were
out there. Like to me,they're like the renegade group. They should
be like doing their own thing.And unless I missed the segment where maybe
they paid like Triple H or Stephanie'shanded them an envelope and uh, you
know, or they're you know,they're paying them, I don't really think

(26:41):
they should be out there. Uh, but that you know, it's a
little nitpicky. No, you knowwhat, I don't. I'm gonna interrupt
you to agree with you, Mike. I don't think that's nipicky. I
think it's a balid point. Ithink the Shield were marginalized in the number
of ways. Last night, youknow, they got manhandled by Big Show.
Sure they got the pin, butthey got manhandled like they were Tripleach
against the Spirit Squad and uh andyeah, standing out there and being the

(27:03):
heavies for you know, the McMahonfamily, I think had some negatives.
The positive is they weren't standing onthe stage with everybody else. That would
have been perhaps worth although more anonymousJason, what do you think. I
didn't care for it either, AndI thought they gave up a lot of
offense to Dolf Zigler two And whenthat match was over, it was like,
Okay, well I worked for Dolfand the Shield's going to survive this.
But then Big Show rubs them up. And then even Daniel Bryant got

(27:26):
the better of them for briefly inA one hundred three. The invincibility factor
with the Shield is gone right now. I mean, part of it was
the losses they've had, But lastnight I don't think did them any favors
they I mean, they had beenestablished somewhat as guns for hire when Hayman
employed them back in the day,so I don't know if that's the idea
here, but yeah, I wishif nothing else, I wish that somehow,

(27:48):
some way they would work in whythey're working for the McMahon's, and
I want Triple H and company toreally make a big fuss over them,
not just treat him as Hendman.I agree. I agree with that,
and I think it's a good point. And I want to apologize Mike for
being a nitpicker because that kind ofdetail makes the difference, and I think
it undercups with the shield stand forYeah, sometimes I feel like I get

(28:10):
myself a little two worked up tokind of like the minor details and things
no, you know what, butit should it's the promotions job to find,
you know, have a creative staffthat includes somebody looking for those details.
And it takes uh, you know, vinscmahn and Triple H and the
writing team. Uh, they haveto be open minded to criticism and holes
in it. I mean, asas Matt brought up to Jason, you

(28:34):
brought it up the beat down ofDaniel Bryan while everybody stood on the stage,
badass Mark Henry Big Show. Youknow Booker t who stared a hole
in Orton as he walked out.Everyone just stood on the stage. I
mean, was there a magical forcefield that they all ran into when they
charged to the ring to try tosay, Brian, or is everybody this
compromised? U corporate scared cat whoare worried about their jobs and fear McMahon.

(28:59):
I can't remember any wrestling promotion inhistory, Jason, that succeeded or
even attempted to portray the wrestlers assubservient servants to create entertainment so that the
family that owned the wrestling company couldmake money. And that's how the wrestlers
are portrayed, and I think thathurts the image of wrestling. I wrote
this and I'll talk about it here, but I wrote this in the VIP
section of SPW Torch Today. Thepromoters role is to look like they've gathered

(29:25):
a bunch of people who, ifit weren't for wrestling, would be getting
into bar fights and street fights,and gather them and give them a setting
to fight, because that's what they'rehardwired to do. And there are a
bunch of outlaws who can barely becontrolled, and you all you have as
leverage is a fact that they likemoney and they don't want to get suspend
it or fined, and you justdo it. You do your best to

(29:48):
mitigate the chaos that results from allthese outlaws getting in fights. That's what
wrestling at its core has been fordecades now. It's a bunch of sports
entertainers who have been hired to dowhat the men's tell them to do.
And I don't I don't think that'sah that. I don't think that's the
best way to make money within thepro wrestling formula. And I don't think
the McMahon's get that. The realityof their corporation and how it operates is

(30:11):
not necessarily what they have to portrayon TV. But it's seeping in.
It's more than seeping in. Ididn't even understand why they had the roster
out there. They really didn't.There was yeah. I think they just
wanted to make it look like abig spectacle, but it was unnecessary.
It's we've seen enough where the guysdon't come running out of the backstage area,

(30:32):
and that's bad enough, but toactually see them standing on the stage
knowing they're watching this, especially whenbig show Mark Henry or guys who are
feuding with the Shield, Rob BanDammy can throw in that mix too.
It's yeah, it's all the babyfaces right now just come off like puppets.
Corporate guys were afraid to do anythingand ruffle the feathers of the McMahon's.
The rebellion factor is gone on thebaby face side. I don't expect

(30:56):
everyone to be Steve Austin, butmy guy there needs to be. They
need to, like at least looklike they stand up for what's right,
regardless of whether it or not they'regoing to lose their jobs. I agree,
I agree, and I bet thatcrossed the mind of a few of
the wrestlers. But I think whatsad Jason is. I bet a thing
cross the mind of all of them. You know, I think they are
so I picked my words carefully andthey asked torta answer. Asked you to

(31:18):
retort answer on the website. ButI mean they've they've come across as corporate
drones who are there to, youknow, serve the McMahon's by entertaining being
sports entertainers, and it I thinkit hurts anyway anything else forth Minke Yeah,
I guess one more thing, welltwo more things actually, but I'll
make them quick. I'm not ahuge fan of the pairing of Warton and

(31:41):
triple h in the year twenty thirteen. I don't know, I'm kind of
tired of that, but I understandthat you know the route they're going,
and I understand the the end,the goal. And that's actually leaving to
my question is before I get tomy question, Jason, you're a live
call and show with christ and willyou guys did a great job, you
know it was. It was veryawesome and thank you. Yeah. My
final question is when do you guyspull the trigger? Do you do it

(32:04):
like the next pay per view maybehopefully October when I go to the Battleground
pay per view. Selfishly, i'dlike to see the trigger pulled them.
But when do you eventually do it? You wait till the rumbolt to put
the belt back on Brian and thanksyour time, guys, you bet.
Wait. My question is how doyou do it that? I think they've
kind of painted themselves into a cornercreatively right now, because okay, maybe

(32:28):
they come up with some scenario wherethere's a bit, you know, somehow,
some way Daniel Bryan earns a match. Even that it's like, well,
why would they if they don't wanthim to be champion? Why would
they give him an opportunity to wina match. And even if we get
to that point, if we cansuspend or disbelief for that, then fans
have to sit there and say,Okay, Daniel Bryan's challenging Randy Orton for
the title at the pay per view. The mcmahs don't want him to win.

(32:52):
They already made sure that he lostthe title once. Why would I
order the show if they're just goingto screw him again? Right, it's
a mess. I don't know howthey're going to get around that. Invite
you to email the show with feedbackor questions or comments. That email address
is Wade Keller Podcast at pwtorch dotcom. That's Wade Keller Podcast at pwtorch

(33:14):
dot com. Also welcome your feedbackon Twitter. You can follow us on
Twitter at pwtorch and follow me atthe Wade Keller that's at PW Torch and
at the Wade Keller. No,there are some issues with what's going on,
and like I said, there's somenegatives to everything that went on last

(33:35):
forty eight hours. I think it'sa net positive because I think what matters
the most. And it's hard forme to say this because of my nature.
What matters the most is the emotionsthe fans are feeling in a kind
of a guttural sense, as opposedto dissecting the logic of it. Now,
I believe strongly that it's worth puttingin the time to make sure that

(33:57):
there is logic anywhere logic is possible. And if logic is not possible and
there's still big money to be madeby breaking logic a little bit, then
you have to bite you know,you have to bite the bullet do it.
But there are things that do notmake sense, that haven't been thought
through, or that are the resultof not having a long term plan that
they were committed to. Because alot of these decisions were made in response

(34:17):
to seen as surgery being pretty serious, and I think they went a different
direction than they probably were planning toa month ago. Jason as that for
her to say that, I believethat, Yeah, I don't know it,
but I certainly believe that. SoI I just I think they needed
to work through the logic a littlemore. I think sometimes they get lazy.
There's a difference between you know,the great, great critically acclaimed TV

(34:38):
shows that we love Breaking Bad,for instance, they think through this stuff.
Not that there aren't little gaps hereand there, but their fans keep
them accountable. And the Vince Gilliganand the whole team who produced that show
believe they owe to their fans tonot have storyline gaps and holes and have
you know, things make sense.I wish WWB took that a little more

(34:59):
seriously and thought through. Bensc Man'skind of sloppy in that regard, and
it's part of you know, it'spart of what's disappointing about him over the
years is he's willing to disregard historyand logic such as everyone's standing on the
stage and the whole thing about youknow, like our first call it crowds,
cheer and Brian. But the mcmahn'ssay, well, he's not you
know, corporate enough, and theyneed to explain that better in what they

(35:20):
mean by that. And all theyhave to say is we bring our champion
to corporate. You know, ourchampion is who we represent, who represents
our company when we go to sponsors. And they have seen people like you
know, the Rock and you knowafter North Steve Austen, but because he's
very rebellious, but you know,the Rock and uh Ho Hogan and John
Cena and Batista, people who wholook good in a suit and look intimidating.

(35:45):
And you know, there's no wayto say it didn't you can we
through the language better than I'm rightnow where they create this image that yeah,
you know there are their champions havebeen corporate boardroom friendly when they pitch
sponsorships, you know, just somethinglike that. And even even I think
the mcman's Jason could get heat bysaying by looking at the crowd and going,
it's not all about you, it'snot all about you, and that

(36:07):
you like Daniel Bryan. We haveother concerns. We have corporate executives who
don't want associate with ww E unlesswe have a champion who looks like a
champion. I mean, there's away to actually add heat to the situation
and have it make a little moresense storyline wise. Definitely, I in
triple As, I thought he deliveredthe promo well it would. You know,
there's there's certainly logic gaps in there, but I thought I was happy

(36:28):
they covered everything with the family's historywith Randy Orton, because that was a
big gap. But man, Imean, are we I guess were we
supposed to come away from this sinkingWWE is so fragile that if Daniel Brian
wins the championship, they're screwed andit's all going away. Yeah, I
don't. I don't think quite tothat degree. I think it's more we

(36:49):
just want to maximize profits. Iguess there were just a lot. There's
a lot about this. I'm notcrazy about what I mean. I was,
and it's thoroughly entertained by Summers Slamin the big two matches, and
there were definitely parts of raw thatI liked. But I'm looking ahead right
now, going Okay, So wehave Daniel Bryan feuding with the McMahons.

(37:09):
Maybe he wrestles Randy Orton, andyou have see him punk feuding with Paul
Hammond. Maybe he gets a rematchwith Brock Lesner what months from now,
and in the meantime he has togo against Curtis Axel or something, And
I don't know, boy, it'screative. I mean, obviously we'll get
to Daniel Bryan and Randy Orton atsome point. To Mike's question, my

(37:30):
guess is, somehow, some waythey get to it. At night of
Champions, because I don't know whatelse you do if you put Randy Orton
and there was someone other than DanielBryan. I don't think that match really
sells Wade because everyone knows that,Okay, eventually it's going to be Daniel
Bryan going for it. I know. I'm curious the pace at which they
play out the matches that were setup in less forty eight hours, because

(37:52):
you know, you could I couldsee them stretching some of the South to
WrestleMania, and that summer Slim setsup WrestleMania and somehow they have a bunch
of detours between now and then,or we can see a bunch of things
blown off at the next two payper views. What is it Night of
Champions and then what's after that?Oh, I think it's the one he
referenced, the new one. Ican't even think of the name of the
battle Ground, Battleground. We havetwo in October. We actually have three

(38:14):
pay per views in October total withTNA, but we have Hewn to Sell
and we have Battleground. I justdon't recall which one comes first. Yeah,
all right, well let's go backto believe it. This Battleground battle
round. Yeah, Jason, let'sgive I want to give you on a
chance to talk to the listeners aboutyour website, your app, and your

(38:34):
membership and tell people how they canget more information from you. One of
the premier insiders for heck the lastfifteen years. Yeah. Absolutely, Pro
Wrestling dot Net Today, my WWERaw hit list will prewit's review of WWE
Raw from an in person perspective.He attended SummerSlam, the Mic Foley Comedy
Show, and last night's Raw.He has reviews up on all of those

(38:55):
things, and the Proud Editorial sectionlook a little bit this evening, and
he'll have his review up of TotalDivas as well, episode number four.
We're doing a really good job withthat. I have my WWE Raw hit
list of for everybody today as well. Already mentioned the ninety minute audio show
we did. You can find detailson that at Pro Wrestling dot Net.

(39:15):
On the member's side of things,it's an ad free version of the website.
If you enjoy our free audio content, there's a lot more exclusive membership
content available, roughly five to sixhours of exclusive audio content per week,
including the dot net weekly audio showthat Chris Shorn on record usually on Thursdays.
This week we had a little schedulingconflict. We're gonna push it back
to Friday. But that is availableevery week to dot net members, along

(39:37):
with again hours of additional audio content. On the ad free version of the
site, there is a form whereyou can correspond with a great group of
people, and you can write yourown blogs, get the first look at
news, all sorts of other perksavailable on the member's side of things.
Membership rates start as low as fivedollars and fifty cents a month. If
you want to lock yourself in fora year. There's also a price break

(39:59):
if you'd want to lock yourself inat six months, and if you just
want to try it out for onemonth, see if it's for you that's
cool too. That price is sevendollars and fifty cents a month. Go
to pro wrestling dot net right therein the main page. You can't miss
the sign up area, and youcan have access to all the perks of
membership very very quickly once you gothrough the sign up process, and if
you have downloaded our free apps,pro wrestling dot Net apps wherever you go,

(40:22):
wherever you whatever phone you have,just wherever you get your app,
go to a search for pro wrestlingdot net. Chances are we have an
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you can actually access all the perksof membership right there on your phone.
If you become a dot net member, there's a special membership section of

(40:42):
those particular apps. And as faras Twitter is concerned, hit me up
on Twitter at pro wrestling Net ifyou have any questions. Again, it's
at pro wrestling Net. Very good. Let's diet back into the phone lines
and go next to Erko two twoon deck four oidor two please sticks name
where you're from? Hey, what'sgoing on? Fellas? Just anthon me

(41:05):
for washing dew, Anthony, whathave you got for us? This is
a few things I always like tosay this, Anthony fam turned down your
radio? Oh you can hit myradio? Yeah? Okay, all right,
how was that? It's good becauseI don't know hear myself two seconds
later talking I kind of mess it. Okay, okay, chasing on the

(41:29):
radio back on Anthony, No,go ahead, go ahead, but all
right, okay, it's got afew things dealing with the man situation.
Now, I like the previous courtsaid before, this is like a rehash
of the Corporation things. There's awhole David Gifts the last situation and stuff,
and uh, I don't I don'tknow how they can, like,

(41:51):
you know, get around the factthat it's kind of like, you know,
people can speak through this and stuff. And and I guess I got
like triple ass like the figurehead becauseSis McMahon's kind of a little up there
in age. He he would probablybe the guy if they will choose to
put him back in the ring todo this like a lot of the heavy
lifting like apic Man did with theearlier corporation and stuff. So my thoughts

(42:14):
like, you know, how farcan it go? And another question I
have it's a Japanese wrestling question.Great mood of this came out with a
company called g One, and Iwas wanting to y'all have anything on light
who are the people m g one? And or you know some type of
buy off about that. Jason firstpart of his question corporation kind of a
rehash people seeing through it, triplebe in the heavy What do you think

(42:38):
about that comparison? Has it beenlong enough? You know? I don't
feel like it has been but youknow, I'm forty one years old now,
so maybe maybe it had. Idon't. I just get I've had
a lot of complaints from people aboutit. I don't feel like it's been
long enough. But there are definitelysimilarities there. I think they're kind of
just tweet It almost feels like they'retweeking the Steve Austin script for Daniel Bryan.

(43:02):
I mean, he's not stowing Cole, but he's going against this big,
powerful mc mann's lead and entity.And I don't care for as far
as the Japanese question, Wade,I just don't keep close enough tabs on
Japan to be able to give agood answer on the mood of question.
Yeah, same thing here. I'vegot it on my list of things because
japan wrestling is actually has been hotagain for a while now after a long

(43:24):
stretch of dormancy. But it's justnot part of my weekly schedule to keep
up on it. I gotta sayso, try try some of our other
hosts throughout the week. We've gota good diverse group of hosts and give
them a shot. Let's go nextto four oh eight four oh wait,
please stay to name and where you'refrom Collo. Can you hear me?
Yep? Hey waite, Jason,how you doing this? Danson? Santo's

(43:47):
Hey Dan? What's going on?So my question kindry relates to, uh,
I guess that you can call himthe new faction with a Triple H
and vinsick Man, Stephany and ranyour But do you guys possibly see them
at in any current Superstars or evenNXT Superstars in the near future? And

(44:07):
that's why I got for you guys, thanks to take my call. Sure,
Jason animils on the pipeline right now. I've been thinking with Paul Hayman.
You know, Curtis Axel not exactlycoming across as a top tier guy
that people see as a threat toPunk. If there was maybe somebody in
developmental who could step in and bethis you know, new face that hasn't
been defined down yet. Boy,I mean, I guess there Leo Krueger

(44:29):
is a guy at Triple H hasbeen high on for a while. I
had there is Corey Graves is Imean, he's got a little bit of
CM punk to his look. Idon't know if they feel like he's ready
yet or if they want to thrusthim into that role. Mason ryan Is
has progressed down there. He's he'sthe big monster you know about just muscle

(44:49):
monster type. I mean, thereare people down there. I'd rather see
them look outside the company at aLuke Gallows and a Matt Morgan. I
think Gallows, especially with that historywith CM Punk. I just think that
it hasn't been so long that peoplewill forget, and even those who don't
know, they're gonna have a goodvideo library to work with to kind of

(45:10):
set that up and explain why that'swhy that means something. It may not
be something you can headline a coheadline a pay per view with, but
I think it definitely buys see himPunk some time until brock Lesner returns,
or you can probably don't. Whatdo you think we get two three months
out of a program with Punk andGallows? I think so it's you know,
the fact that Punk has to bethe co lead baby Face means you

(45:32):
kind of want to have a strongopponent in terms of drawing ratings and paper
virates and how show attendance. SoI think there's a little more pressure than
there maybe would be otherwise. Butyeah, I mean I think if they
do it right, I think theycan make that work. I really like
to see that. Gallows is aguy who I thought was impressive in different
roles in w w A. Imean, the fastest thing was silly,

(45:54):
but I thought at times he thatworked and certainly just just Luke Gallows.
And then in TNA they just didn'treally give him a character. He was
just another member of Aces and Eights. He did a good job in Ringcock
King a little bit. I sawhim there Isaiah Cash or something like that
they called him. And you know, I've never been blown away by his

(46:15):
Mike work. But he doesn't haveto talk when you have Paul Aman there.
That's the big advantage and they shouldtake advantage of that. Yeah,
I think there's enough heat in thePunk Hayman relationship that it makes sense that
you could just get somebody who's bigand threatening the punk and let Hayman build
him up and do it. AndI just think Curtis, I mean,

(46:35):
Curtis Axel just seems like a weakperson for that role. Oh he is,
Yeah, It's just you know,and it's they just didn't establish him
enough. And I don't know thathe has it. I don't know that
he if he's going to be morethan kind of what he is now.
But I don't think they did himany favors by kind of rushing him into
that and kind of making him theguy, well, we don't have anyone
else with him, and we'll havehim fight Punk. He's just people don't

(46:59):
see him in that role, andwhen sometimes when you try to force him
in, I just think it's setsthe person back. I just think we're
seeing why he toiled and developmental foruntil his early thirties. I mean,
he just there's an its factor thathe does not have. I think if
he was going to have it,we would have seen it by now.
I'm not totally writing him off asa roster member, but I just don't

(47:19):
see him being Paul Hayman guy who'sgonna move to that next level. I
mean, this has been too importantof a time for him and he has
not delivered. And so if hehad it in him, I would think
with Paul Hayman's help, it wouldhave happened by now. On SmackDown on
Friday, jbl and Colin Lawler,we're talking about, Hey, has Paul
Hayman's attention been too much on brockLesner at the exclusion of Curtis Axel,

(47:45):
and it almost seemed like they're kindof setting things up to say, maybe
it's, you know, after SummerSlam, Hayman can give more attention to Curtis
Axel. But I just his facialexpressions are kind of cartoony and corny,
and I just don't think people,I mean, if you say, what
do you know about Curtis Axel,I don't think anybody knows anything about him.
He's just a third you know,third generation guy who is in a

(48:06):
very big shadow and isn't isn't comingout of it. Well, it would
help a little bit if w Wwould actually bother to give, you know,
have secondary title feuds. They don'tany right, you know, it's
he's just been kind of hanging aroundholding that title. Once in a while
he worked with miss and once ina while he works with Barrett and then
even Dean Ambrose. I thought,for sure, okay, they're gonna have
Van Damn go after him for awhile, and it looks like that was

(48:28):
a one and done. Yep,that's it's an issue. I wish I'm
with you. I wish they gavemore attention to it. Searching for more
great pro wrestling talk, then joinme Jason Powell host him the pre weekly
Pro Wrestling Boom Podcast. Each weekhe'll hear the latest news and analysis for
me and my team at Pro Wrestlingdott net along with other pro wrestling media

(48:49):
members. Plus, the Pro WrestlingBoom Podcast features long form interviews with notable
names in the pro wrestling industry.Subscribe an I team and Stitcher downcast and
all your favorite secondary or visit usdirectly at pwboom dot com. Once again,
that's pwboom dot com. All right, let's go next to Ericodes six

(49:13):
one six oh. By the way, these are good questions that we're talking
about for Shaun Waltman. He is. He was on Twitter last night talking
about some notes on his experience indevelopmental and with some of these people who
are now in the main roster.He was an informal but influential hands on
consultant down at down at Florida Championsof Wrestling before it's NXT, and he
will have some good insight for uson Friday show. It's definitely worth tuning

(49:37):
in and send your email questions now. But he's very familiar with the developmental
a lot of these people, andand we'll have his own opinions. And
we've found out over the years goingback to his torch talks, some of
the best torch talks I conducted forthe Progressing Torch newsletter in the nineteen nineties
where with Shawn Waltman, he ishonest and forthcoming and very smart when it
comes to the business. So it'sgonna be a good interview this Friday.

(49:59):
All right, six one six isnext, and then five one two and
nine one four on deck six onesix. Please state your name and where
you're from. This is there fromGrand Ramparts. Miss you can. How
are you guys doing good? Areyou onder the weather? Are you whispering
there? There? No very muchidea. I am laryngitis. So yeah,
I know the feelings, did them? Yeah? Did do you see

(50:20):
them working with Shawn Michael's in thiswith the with the corporation or me not
not not necessarily as a wrestler,but do you do you see Shawn Michaels
getting it getting in this picture alittle bit? Or is that in?
That's all I got. It's agood topic I put on on my Twitter
feed, which by the way,is at V Wade Keller tg W A
D E K E L L ER go follow me right now. That's

(50:42):
an order. I mentioned that onTwitter during the pay per view. I
thought, you know, I'm watchingmy h Michael's on the panel discussion with
Vicky and Booker and uh Timid JoshMatthews, and I just you know,
throughout there, you know, couldMichaels get involved in the main event,
especially if Triple h uh you know, does something and and Daniel Bryant is

(51:05):
getting cheated. Michaels, you know, has a connection to him and acknowledge
that. Jason, I don't thinkso right now, but I'm not not
completely ruling it out. You know. You wonder if Sean Michaels would like
to have one more match, ifhe's got an itch for that that,
you know, if he's got theitch that needs to be scratched and have
one more big match and would likeone more pay Day And they're looking at

(51:27):
Russemania thirty as a big show,and let's say the Rock and Undertaker,
just to throw two possibilities out therearen't available, you know, or they
don't come to terms with them.They want star power. Sean Michaels is
a difference maker on the by rate. Maybe they dangle enough money in front
of him to get Michaels come outof retirement. And maybe I'm not saying
I would vote for this or it'smost likely, but if Daniel Bryan's a

(51:47):
baby face, maybe Sean Michaels wouldbe willing to go heal to have a
match with Daniel Bryant just you know, and with essentially a wink in and
out of the wrestling community that I'mgoing heal just great a storyline excuse for
me to get in the ring withmy old student who is phenomenal and have
a dream match that really should happen. Jason, I think, especially with
it being WrestleMania thirty a milestone,I think all bets are off as far

(52:13):
as that guys who have lost retirementmatches. I'm not saying they're all coming
back or anything, but you know, I don't know that flares high on
the priority list after the weekend,but I could see if I think if
it was going to happen, yeah, I wait, I think this could
be the year. I don't knowwhat the match would be. I don't
know if Sean has interest. Butif he does, then yeah, either

(52:34):
you know, going against Daniel Bryan, haiming with Daniel Bryan. There's a
lot of different ways they could doit. And I think enough time has
passed where people would forgive the factthat, you know, he did lose
a retirement match to to Undertaker.Oh yeah, yeah. And I think
when you lose a retirement match,what retirement means isn't will never wrestle again.
What it means is you're done fulltime, but you reserve the right

(52:55):
after a reasonable amount of time,not next month, mcfully to make a
comeback and have one or two comebackmatches. And I think people are willing
to live with that, you know, not not Ric Flair diad where he
had a big retirement match and reallypushed it as a last match and then
wrestled routinely outside of the company andin a way that wasn't you know,
all that monumental. But I thinkMichael's coming back once for us of many

(53:19):
at thirty, does not in anyreasonable way break the covenant that was you
know, established with his fan basein his real that helped him base their
decision to buy that match a fewyears back. Yeah, let's let's go
next two five one two in thenon deck nine one four. I don't

(53:40):
think we just went to five onetwo five one two. Steach your name
where you're from? Yeah? Heyguys, Just Jason in Austin. Hey
Jason, what have you got forus? Hey? Well, I just
wanted to talk a little bit moreabout the show, and I came in
a little late, so I hopethis is an all ground that you've covered,
really enjoined the first and the lastsegment last night. But then I've

(54:01):
been thinking about all day, justall the holes in this logic. I
mean, you you have a corporatechampion who gave Stephanie and r K O
a while back. Now they didit sort of address that, so I
give him credit for that. Youhave Stephanie and Triple H, who,
if I recall, correctly, gotdivorced in the storylines at some point and
never and now they're suddenly married again. But again, that's fine, that's
wrestling. But then I mean youalso, I mean if they were going

(54:23):
to do this corporate champion ankle,which seems like it's basically what they're doing,
wouldn't Sena make more sense if youput the injury aside for a second,
I mean, here's the guy,because I mean some of the issues
you were talking about about going intoboardrooms and all that sort of stuff.
Orden's a heel now, and Imean, wouldn't it make more sense to
have a guy like Sena who atleast on the surface is a baby's face,

(54:45):
does charity work, is great withkids, and yet you have the
benefit of the fact that he getsbooed in the arenas, and so it
just seems like, I don't know, it bothered me when Rock was the
heel corporate champion, because it justseems like if they're gonna get behind,
say you know, this is goodfor business, and it should be a
guy who, at least on thesurface is someone who you know, actually

(55:08):
you could make the logical argument appealsto kids and to corporate corporate partners and
all that sort of stuff. AmI just overthinking this? Well? No,
no, I mean it's it's alegitimate point. I think Jason that
the missing one of the missing piecesof the logic is and they needed to
establish or restate it or make itclear, is why is John Cena not

(55:28):
their corporate champion? What about him? Doesn't satisfy the checklist that the McMahons
have for who they want their corporatechampion to be. Why does insect man
not want John Cen to be champion? He can say. All mcmahn had
to say is John, you'd bea great corporate champion if I didn't dislike
you so much, or you'd bea great corporate champion, except you have
a mind of your own, andyou aren't. You don't listen to me

(55:50):
as much as I would like somebody, you know, just throw something out
there to have it make a littlebit more sense for us, right.
I wish they I mean, theyjust had Vane basically shay that he doesn't
like John Seen anymore and that's it. Yeah, I mean, I think
what it comes down to is theyjust they didn't want to turn John Seen
an even if they wanted to.He's and I really doubt it, he's
not healthy right now. So this, Yeah, they should have spent a

(56:12):
little more time explaining it. Ithink their answer would probably be that we're
supposed to read through the lines andknow that Vince McMahon is crazy and he's
going to do things on a whimlike this, and so they don't need
the explanation. I disagree with it. I think they do. Yeah,
yeah, all right, very good. Anything else, Mike, thank you?
All right? Cool? Uh no, no, thanks, Yeah,
I appreciate it. Good topic,all right. Nine one four is next

(56:37):
and two O two and eight Ofive are on deck. Nine on four
please stage name and where you're from? Uh hi, Seohn Stamford, Connecticut.
Guys, you have a great show. I just have a comment on
a question. Yeah. My commentsis is that this old storyline, it's
just eventually to play get back inthe ring. And in my opinion,

(56:58):
after his work with Brock left Or, which I thought was subpar, I
really have no desires the Triple Hwrestle ever again. And I think that's
one of the big shames of DanielBryant and I guess, in my opinion,
getting subjugated in this whole thing.And the other thing is, I
know you guys have a lot oftopics to cover, but Darren Young coming
out last week. I called youguys a couple of months ago and asked

(57:21):
you about you know, if andwhen a WW came out, you know
how it be received, et cetera. And my whole thing is I just
wonder if the whole not that itwas contrived because ww knew that Darren Day
and that they wanted him to comeout in LA for Summers Slam, and
it just, I don't know,three very corporate with me, and that's

(57:42):
one thing that's kind of a turnoff. Yeah, I'm not just it's
not just in this situation with DarrenYoung, and I do respect that he
came out. I just I thinkit's a little bit and it just seems
a little bit contrived. And there'sthings about, you know, with the
product where it just becomes so corporateif it comes kind of nauseating, especially
it aspect to me, you know, constantly threatening to fire people. And

(58:05):
there's something about the McMahons that theyreally they kind of throw a whole wet
blanket on the product, to behonest with you, whenever they come on.
So thanks for letting me air moundviewpoint. Absolutely appreciate your points of
view. I think I think thatis a problem with the McMahon's being central
heroes, but running the company isultimately fans have to reconcile spending money when
they know the money they spend isgoing to lin the pocketbooks. Of the

(58:27):
McMahons, and that is a bigyou know, I don't I won't call
it a fatal flaw, but it'sa significant flaw in this storyline when you
set it up and you don't havesome sort of sense that the people in
charge are good people who ultimately arejust trying to create an even playing field
for these outlaw wrestlers to fight becausethey're fighters. And I just think that

(58:49):
formula works a lot better and itis simpler and makes more sense and lets
the wrestlers be the stars of theshow. The McMahons, I think,
perhaps with pressure from NBC Universal andNetwork, and I think they're just eager
to get back on TV and dowhat they do. They see themselves as
as significant stars in this weekly TVdrama of Ron SmackDown Jason. But it
is a problem, and I don'tthink it goes unnoticed. Whether it's it's

(59:14):
more just kind of an undercurrent oran over thought that fans have. Yeah,
yeah, they're definitely And I'm startingto wonder, you know, we
all just assume, okay, they'reon television because USA is instructing them to
do so. Those contracts are comingup, television contracts are coming up any
chance this is that their idea.They wanted to drive the ratings up as

(59:35):
much as they can heading into negotiations, and they think this is a way
to do it. I think so. I mean, I think they are
trying to do everything, anything,and everything they can and that makes the
timing of John Cina's injury, youknow, unfortunate. Yeah, as for
Darren Young, I mean, Ithink there are aspects of it that are
managed, corporate, corporately managed,or contrived. You know, if If

(59:57):
and Jason do you have you beenable to uncover or piper the public comments
that are part of the story that'sofficial versus just insight into you know.
Randy Orton went on record saying nonobody knew in the locker room, and
another story's out that Darren Young justwanted to bring his his committed boyfriend to
Summerslime and not have rumors start andwanted to control this story and get it
out there before he did what everyother wrestler gets to do at big events,

(01:00:21):
which is bring their partner and theirfamily backstage at the event. I
haven't had anyone say they knew.I mean, Titis O'Neill has come out,
and he has said that he knewgoing in. Yeah, you know,
he knew, but there their tagpartners and their legit friends outside the
ring, and so you would think, you know, if it was a
very small group of people, hewould be one who knew. I mean,
the whole scene with TMZ at shockinglyempty portion of Lax, which I

(01:00:47):
haven't been there, but people whohave say that doesn't happen. That was
it just to all of a suddenhave the reporters start with that question.
Yeah, it was TMZ playing ballto get a scoop on story, and
that's They're right. I'm not eventrying to badmouth him, but I'm just
saying it. It doesn't take awayfrom the announcement for me, but it

(01:01:07):
it kind of makes me laugh Wade, because so many they know, the
mainstream media who just looks down theirnose and all things pro wrestling and how
it's silly and don't you know thatit's not real. They're the first ones
to fall for that. I didn'tsee anyone in the mainstream media questioning like
the setup of this or how ithappened. They're just going with the story

(01:01:27):
that Darren Young announced he's gay.Yeah. Yeah, Well, I mean
I was glad that last not onRaw, that they did not make a
an issue of it other than theveiled reference they've said to you know,
headlines. Uh. Oh, Iwas worried there. Oh I was too.
I'm thinking, why are they goingwith this? And do we really
want w w E and and especiallyZubculter turning this into some sort of storyline.

(01:01:53):
I could tell Darren Young when thematch was over, was was choked
up. You know, he wasemotional that he got through that match.
And there weren't as far as wecould tell, cat calls certainly not overwhelming,
and everything just was business as usual. And I think that says a
lot about the attitudes of even quoteeven you know, just a wrestling crowd.
And I think it speaks well tothe ww universe the way that they

(01:02:15):
handled it. If ultimately they decidedto manage the time frame of it,
and they did it for some corporatereasons, still, be it the fact
that that is an asset to thecorporation to have somebody going to speak kids
who is out as gay as awrestler and is the first active roster member
of WWE to ever come out andpublicly state that. I think that's that's

(01:02:36):
tremendous, and I think they're inYoung can be a good representative and so
so far, so good, andyou know, I just I just see
the storyline. Darren wanted to managehow word came out, and he if
he's in a committed relationship, andeverybody else was bringing their their fiances and
their their husbands or wives, ifit's a diva or male wrestler, whatever,

(01:02:57):
they're bringing their families backstage to events. You know, at some point,
I could imagine Darren Young's partner going, hey, wait a second,
I want to go here too.I want to be here too. This
isn't right, not in twenty thirteen, that not ever, but certainly not
not now. And Darren's gays,Yeah, but if you go there,
everyone's gonna start talking, and thenthe story leaks out and then we have
to respond to rumors. And thenthey said, well, let's just come

(01:03:19):
out, let's own this story,let's manage it, and let's not let
it be the subject to rumors.That that's I mean that to me seems
to be a potential scenario of howthis played out and if WWB is going
to turn it into a positive bysending him on b A Star campaigns to
talk to kids. I think that'sjust even more tremendous. They've really,
I mean, they've done a greatjob so far. I do worry like
ratings take a hit, someone getsa creative idea that they try to turn

(01:03:40):
this into something television wise that theydon't need to. I mean, was
jab Culture just saying what he didjust that a little bit left that door
open, and I'm like, oh, I hope they don't go there.
But everything has been really flawless ontheir part so far. I think they've
handled this extremely well. I thinkDarren Young has handled it well. You
know, I don't know how muchcoaching went on of Randy Orton's and John

(01:04:04):
cena Is for those interviews that theydid for TMZ or anything like that,
but just overall, I've been veryimpressed by the way WWE has handled this,
and and equally impressed really with thefan reaction. I haven't you know,
if had this happened fifteen years agoor something, you know, I
think the reaction would have been alot different. And instead, I mean,

(01:04:26):
I'm sure there's some shelter heads outthere, but byemark. I just
haven't received any negative reaction to it, aside from people. The only thing
negative. We've got a couple ofcallers last night who are you fine with
him making the announcement, But theyquestioned, should he get a push on
television? Should they suddenly become babyfaces? And would that have happened into
that? I said, well,big deal. I mean, of course

(01:04:47):
you're gonna want to put him,you know, put him in the most
positive position you can. You cansupport us on Patreon and get these shows
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(01:05:08):
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and you can also upgrade two othertiers and receive even more benefits through Patreon.
Yeah. I don't think if youget a pushy doesn't deserve because it

(01:05:28):
came out, But if it's buthe's not w w E champion. I
mean, let's you know, theybeat the real Americans exactly. Yeah,
that's the thing. And you knowwhat, if all other things are equal,
and there's a number of guys whoare relatively interchangeable who have about the
same tenure and in skill level,in size and kruisma and value to ww
E, if he's coming out asgay and that makes him unique and marketable,

(01:05:55):
then that gets to be used thesame way that the Bellas get to
use their good look or John cenIt gets to use his muscles, or
The Big Show gets to use hissize, or you know what I mean,
you know what, Zeb Coulter getsto use his body hair. I
mean, it's just it's part ofwho he is and they're gonna use it
to give him a push. Ithink it's a little yeah, I think
it's a little overly sensitive and kindof angry to say that, Well,

(01:06:20):
now, if he gets any kindof benefit from coming out as gay,
then well we need to criticize that. It's like, everybody benefits from everything
that makes them who they are,and a lot of people who are gay
have had a lot of things thathaven't gone their way because of that too.
If it, you know, bouncesback the other way and it's actually
an asset instead of a detriment.Everybody just needs to be quiet about it

(01:06:40):
and go about their lives. That'smy opinion on that. Well, yeah,
all right, let's go to Ericcode two O two next and on
Dec. Eight O five. Bythe way, two O two, please
state your name and where you're from, Washington, DC, Junior. I'm
good man, man. You knowwhat, let's keep going with this,
very young and let's let's keep thisrolling. All right. This, this

(01:07:01):
is my opinion on that. Idon't really think there's money to be made
off of this, and I don'tmean like in a negative way of bad
way. Matter of fact, Ithink this they can use that to really
put, to really put all thisbe a star campaign and stand up against
bullies and all that they can do. All this the one Stales hoop And
this answer is right back, becauseI'm loving the bully roll. He's playing

(01:07:26):
this perfect. It's perfect. Allthey gotta do. S They always had
the primetime players and backstage. Getnow is the time, you don't say,
of course, Rightbeck gonna run upon Darren Young, run up on
the tightest and get it started,and they can go with it and they
can make money. I'm telling youit's dead. It's dead. Okay,
Okay, the courage and the rightright, Junior, do you trust?

(01:07:49):
Do you trust Junior w W todo that with the right tone. I
feel better about it now than Iwould have a year or two ago.
Yeah. Yeah, that's not tosay that absolutely trust him. No,
But I think if you allowed DarrenYoung the levity in this, if you

(01:08:10):
allow him to dictate what he's comfortablewas doing not doing, then yeah,
I do. Yeah, And Ihonestly I don't think that an individual representing
minority group or special you know,category, because they're okay with it,
that makes it okay. And Ithink you can enter dangerous ground because there's
Hispanics, his Hispanic wrestlers who arelike, I want to keep my job,

(01:08:30):
I don't want to ruffle feathers.I want to go along, get
along. So they agree to somethings that are really portray negative stereotypes.
And so just because Darren Young's okay, well doesn't mean it's okay. But
that's said, you're right after theway they handled it last night and really
all week, and hey, JaneGetty's is part of the equation, you
know, the replacement for John Laurynitis. She's head of talent Relations. She

(01:08:50):
and her female partner have a family, they have kids, and I just
think WWE is better equipped now thanat any time to deal with it in
a way that's sensitive. So you'reright. However, However, however,
Junior, I heard you. Letme let me just I want one more
thing to say, because I reallywant to hear your thoughts on it.
All right, what if I don'tthink that Darren Young being gay needs to

(01:09:14):
be part of his character because itis not part of every other straight wrestler's
character that they're straight like that is. Just because he's the only openly gay
wrestler doesn't mean that now has tobe what defines his character. I'm not
saying it's not an option on thetable, and I am on record saying
my preference is they don't make anissue of it and don't turn it into
his character because there's a lot ofreal life things. Heck, the Funk

(01:09:38):
and dact will take off their engagementrings because they want to seem available.
There's a lot of things about onour characters that don't reflect what people are,
what people's realize are. So Iknow what you're saying about right back.
My other issue with it, andthis last point before to go back
to you, is are we gonnabelieve Darren Young against right Back? You
know? Is he is he credibleenough to put up a fight against Ryback?
Yes? It just does right absolutely, ye, because that's a big

(01:10:01):
boost. That's a big boost forfor Darren Yon many yep. Well,
fair enough. What I wanted toask this this is my thing where yeah,
this is why. This is whyI say that because my whole life
and probably yours too, most charactersthat were considered to be gay or whatever

(01:10:21):
or or you know in wrestling periodhave they most of the times, they've
always been healed the majority of thehime Yep. So I thinkured, man,
this is a great opportunity and it'sreal ways and they're not they're not
acting. It's not gold dust beingand trogyist. And this is this is
who I'm not saying you're putting thissex of orientation on the line, but

(01:10:42):
it's like, this is who heis. Fine, yep. But that's
why you would have a me mehad like right back would step to him
and say something just idiotic. Yeyou know what I'm saying, like that
that dude would do. Yep.Hey, I'm just saying, why why
can't you go out for that?You can make money off and I think
I didnot became People want to seedifferent stuff. Let me get Jason thoughts
on it. Two. Jason,what what do you think about juniors proposing

(01:11:04):
I know, I think you're makingsexuality part of the storyline on a on
a PG show, and I don'tknow that that's a good idea. If
had they come out and run avideo package last night, a spotlighting the
fact that he made the announcement,I would have been okay with it.
But to just really turn this intohe was Darren Young, the tag team

(01:11:30):
wrestler, and now all of asudden, he's gay and he's a really
good wrestler because of it. No, I think you're then. I think
it would It wouldn't bother me.I think parents out there might start to
go, wait a minute, you'reand not that there's no sexuality on WWE
television. But I don't know thathe's the right guy for that. So
far, he's been the right guyto come out and make this announcement,

(01:11:54):
If this were Daniel Brian, somebodythat people already or see him punk,
someone that people already see in thatright spot, you know, as a
as a top guy, a guythat can beat right back. Even then
I say no, But at leastthen you really do get into that territory
where it's like, are they givinghim this push simply because of his sexuality

(01:12:15):
because of this announcement? And ifthey did, if they did, okay,
I can I can accept that too, But I don't know that.
I just don't see him as theright guy for this. You can make
anybody the right guy, I think, is what you're trying to say,
But I just don't see him.Maybe there's money there, but I don't
like you. Wait, I don'treally trust them to play this just right.
And you really have to walk thatwalk a line when you do something

(01:12:38):
like that. Now, my nextquestion is why was there a camera filming
three guys in the locker room lastnight? Why was there? Oh right
right back, yeah, right back. Wasn't in the room yet, And
somebody think about this. Kevin Dunnis up there and he's like, hey,

(01:12:59):
remember that Amerman who we for somereason sent into a locker room to
film three regular guys changing clothes.Let's go to that shot just in case
something interesting happens. And then Raybeckshowed up, like, if Rybek is
barging into a locker room, hehasn't barged in yet. So why was
there a camera filming three regular guyschanging clothes? And part and then part

(01:13:21):
two is why were there three regularguys changing clothes? Is this arena double
as a why as like a YMCAor something like that? Whole thing just
last it just felt so staged.It would not have taken much creativity at
all to explain that, But tome, it just came across as really
creepy. No, it did.No. I thought we were gonna see
Hide and Rape, right, Ithought it was version two of Hide and

(01:13:42):
Rape backstage and it was awkward.The indie performer who plays that character said
he's gonna be in Bakersfield on asTwitter page or so maybe we will get
it tonight. I don't know,but yeah, I wish they would explain
that. But more than anything,I wish they'd give up on Bully Rye.
I mean, that's what this shiis. It's there low budget answer
to Bully Ray. They have screwedup right Back so bad this guy.

(01:14:04):
I mean, he was a topbaby face, maybe not ability, and
people certainly had their issues with rightBack, but people were connecting with him.
He seemed to be building momentum untilthey had to have him lose six
pay per view matches in a row, and then they decided to turn him
because somebody needed to face John Cenacoming out of WrestleMania. They have screwed

(01:14:26):
him up so badly, and andit's you know, they're they're costing themselves
money you can get. I mean, we were talking about it earlier.
Look at the baby baby face depth. Right Back could have added to that,
add him a lot to it.Yeah, all right, let's try
to get in a couple more callshere. We got more calls when we're
gonna get to I hate to say, but let's go to uh eight oh
five next, and then after thatat three one three, it'll five.

(01:14:46):
Please stay your name and where you'refrom? Hey, way to Jason.
This is Michael from California. Hey, Michael, what have you got for
us? Can you guys talk aboutthe announcer during the last segment, and
it seemed like Michael call on dabOn Law they were kind of disinterested or
you know, they seemed kind ofbored. You know, they all would
be put a keyed on the hedbe going crazy as far as like being

(01:15:09):
outraged as far as what happened toDaniel Bryant. I didn't notice that,
Jason, but doesn't mean it wasn'ttrue. There's a little bit of a
fatigue factor. By the three hourten minute mark. Did you notice anything
with the announcer Jason that came upshort? I can't say I did.
I mean, they probably weren't beingproduced at that point either. You know,
we would ben yelling in their eartelling him what to say. Maybe

(01:15:30):
they just felt like the best thingthat he was lay out and let the
situation, you know, take careof itself. The aduncers generally do not
talk over segments now. They kindof wait till after they're done to interject
their thoughts, and in this case, there was no time afterwards to talk.
So yeah, I mean, therewas enough going on that maybe they
just felt like it wasn't their placeyet to speak, and then then the
show was over. That's my takeon it. Yeah, Michael, I

(01:15:55):
would say I thought Michael Cole hadone of the best nights in his history
on Sunday Night. I thought hewas great and del reel Christian, especially
in the last five minutes. AndI thought he did great work in the
two main events. And he's he'sreally stepped up to become up and he's
I think he's had it in himfor a very long time, but he's
become a very good announcer. AndI don't think anybody after Sunday Night would

(01:16:16):
be complaining about Michael Cole as thelead host of Raw. He's really stepped
up and become a good lead announcerfor that company. Anyway, very good,
we got lot's call us. Let'stalk. Keep her on through here.
Let's go to three, one,three, and then two or five
on deck three or three or threeone three? Please state your name and
where you're from. Hey, thisis Wayne from the Truth. Hey Wayne,
what do we got for us?Okay? I just say have a

(01:16:36):
two comments. This first one hasprobably you know, been ran into the
ground. But one of my biggestproblems with this slory, with this you
Brian and the new Corporation, Iguess, is that taken all the focus.
Awful what's important, and that's justthe championship. They're speaking on it

(01:16:58):
in terms of, you know,a face of the company and everything.
But Daniel Bryan just beat the biggestguy that you're having the company clean and
they're still treating them like he's achild, and I just think it's there's
something very wrong with that. Andthen in the terms that they're huge.
You know, he can't do interviews, he can't go on TV, he

(01:17:19):
can't you know, be on bea start, but they're not saying that
he can't win a match. He'snot the best guy in the company.
And then secondly, I want totalk about continuity as far as Daniel Brian
goes. For the last three orfour months, he's been treated like a
child. He's been treated like ajerk. He has mental issues, he

(01:17:43):
was the weak link with Kane andall this stuff, and now you need
an entire corporation to prevent him fromwinning the title. I think that's why
you don't, you know, belittlewrestlers, because when it's actually they're time
to get their push, they'll bebelievable. If it wasn't believable to me
last night that she needed to feelin Triplates and Sephany and Vinced and ran

(01:18:09):
Jordan in the rings just to stopfanning your bran I mean, Jason,
I think in response to what Wayneis saying, it's very logical. There
comes a point where the crowd reactionmakes logic not all that important. Crowd
is eating this up, at leastin the building. We're gonna find out
the next few weeks ratings wise whatit means. But the crowd, crowd
is taking it seems to want tocheer louder to drown out the negativity from

(01:18:31):
the mcmahn family when it comes toDaniel Bryan. Yeah, I mean they're
into Daniel Bryant. I'm still waitingto see if they're intimate the McMahon's as
foils. I didn't look at theyneeded all those people out there. I
just looked at it as a showof force. They were kind of flexing
their muscles by having all those peopleout there to prevent Daniel Bryan from getting
it looks like bullies, yeah,yeah, be a star. Yes.

(01:18:57):
Well, I'm fine with there beingbullies on camera as long as their heels
and they get ultimately shown up.I mean that's part even when they're the
headge of the company that runs theBstar campaign. Well, no, that
that is that is bad. ButI guess the McMahon's are hoping and I'm
not saying it. It's good,it's good for business and ideal way to
do it. But I think they'rejust going on the fact that we're just
playing this role on TV. Wehave to use our real names, but

(01:19:18):
we're just playing a role on TV, and people understand that. But behind
the scenes were really good, goodpeople and corporate people, and we all
smile in our family, a happyfamily. That's what they're hoping people understand
same reason that they hope. Youknow, people understand that the Bellas are
single and the you know, Funkand Actles are single in the w w
E universe, but on you know, in real life they are dating and

(01:19:40):
taken. Oh hell, last nightI watched Total Divas a little bit before
Raw last night, and they reallywant you to try to differentiate because on
Raw we saw the Funk of Actualswork against the Bellas. On Total Divas,
we saw them clowning around and playingpranks backstage with each other. Yep,
yep, I know, so weird. Yeah, it is in twenty

(01:20:04):
twelve, NXT transitioned into the developmentalsystem and ultimately the brand you see today.
On the Torch VIP podcast NXT EightYears Back, we'll be taking a
weekly look at this page in NXT'searly history. Join Kelly Wells and me
Tom Stout from PWT Talks NXT everySaturday as we go eight years back to

(01:20:26):
the day to track NXT's rising talentsand why they did or didn't work out
exclusively for PW Torch VIP members.All right, twol five, you're up
next week, Stager named where you'refrom two to five. We're gonna try
to get you next. Vincent fromIllinois. What did you out for us?

(01:20:47):
Patrick Birmingham, Alabama? Oh well, I don't know where I got
into. All right, now wecan hear you better. Patrick from Birmingham
two o five, go for it, Okay, cool, I was just
wondering. Aws caught the continued life. They were kept referring to learn about
the tag team division, like howgreat it is at the Husto match and
when they were going to get threeand D and also during the what was

(01:21:09):
it the what do they called therth Americans when they were cutting the problem
time players, and also want tojove that you caught that Metador bevignette for
the repect it's prepo. I didcatch the vignett. You didn't, I
did? Yeah, okay, okay, well I just want to catch your
thoughts on that. Yeah, forsure, they'll hang up with sure.
I think it's smart to have moreHispanic wrestlers, and if they have a

(01:21:32):
Hispanic take team, I think thatstrengthens a take the division. Jason,
it seemed like there's been a concerted, an overt decision to to improve and
create depth on the Take division.It does I mean, this might be
you know, who knows. Maybethis is part of the plan to kind
of beef up Darren Young's image too, is to make the prime time players

(01:21:54):
stand out more in the Tag division, and in a beefed up Tag division
at that. The problem they're goingto have is that none of these teams
are over so it's really hard toelevate the exactly you know, I mean,
it's not it's not like the Ussoscan beat anyone under the shield and
be elevated, and really that goesfor every team in the division. We
saw the Usos and real Americans justtrade wins, and it didn't do any

(01:22:15):
even when the real Americans beat them. The first week was like, Okay,
big deal, it's going to takesome time. I don't I don't
know way to see as simple asputting some makeshift singles wrestlers in there and
having them elevate the tag teams.I think that's maybe what they're trying to
do with Big Show and Mark Henryis say all right, you know we're
gonna start treating Take Team seriously.The key is I mean it could take

(01:22:38):
three four years of treating the takingdivision seriously to undo and offset some of
the damage that they've done over theyears by treating tag teams as two jobbers
who couldn't cut it in the singlesdivision, and of course in the one
on one match they lose and offand they lose two on one matches stars,
and I just look at Big Showand Mark Henry as being like the
latest, we don't know what todo with them. What's throw them together

(01:22:59):
and occupy some some of their timein the tag division. Then we have
good tag title matches, but noneof the guys beneath them really gain anything
from it. Well, I hopefullythey're going to try to offset that.
Yeah, I think getting giving apush to two singles wrestlers and having them

(01:23:20):
compete, even Steven with the toptag team is a good first step to
rehabilitating the tag division. I'd putit that way. Patrick appreciate the call.
Any any comments on the new Mattadorgimmick, Jason, Oh, I'm
saying the Matador gimmick it you havetwo Puerto Rican wrestlers playing Mexican manadors.

(01:23:42):
That stood out it to me.I mean, it looks I guess we'll
need to see it. It looksfandango level silly, right, Yeah,
you know, And I'm guessing theyjust figure ZEB culture needs some Mexican types
or Hispanics to feud with. Idon't know that they've thought about this beyond
our real Americans against El Matter orprogram. Right, Although, if you

(01:24:05):
know, if you're going to putthe type of time you have into Swaggerant
Czaro and Zeb, I guess itmakes sense to bring in some characters to
feud with them, to feud withthem as a tag team. It's just
it's repetitive, you know, Andthe way they've done this now Culter is
just more comedy than anything it's nothe's not even going for heat anymore.

(01:24:27):
It's or at least maybe he tries. But it's just that's how lies can
perceive it. It's like it's solighthearted that you just can't help but laugh.
You're no one's getting offended by this. Yeah, yeah, very good.
Let's go to two two five next, and uh, one more call
probably after that two two five.Please state your name and where you're from.
Hey, Wade, my name's Earthenand I'm from Bad Rage, Louisiana.

(01:24:50):
What's your first name again, It'sEarthen. Earthen. Very good.
What have you got for us?Uh? First of all, I'm I'm
a first time caller away and Ijust wanted to say, Man, I
really love your show, and uhreally love you and Jason and your objectivity
about professional wrestling. I really digthe insight I want. Yeah, I

(01:25:14):
wanted to hear your thoughts, youand Jason's thoughts about the cash in section
of the match at SummerSlam and theuse of triple H. Jason's already kind
of alluded to it a little bitin the program, but I just wanted
to hear your thoughts and kind oftalk a little more about I mean,
I felt like what they did wasvery effective. However, I felt like

(01:25:42):
it was just really old hot andI felt like we were just kind of
going backward, like haven't we beenhere before with And I'm not I'm not
a person that hates Triple H.I'm not a Triple H hater, but
it just felt like, here wego again with Triple H, and he's
gonna put himself over by using DanielBryan and one pedigree takes out Daniel Bryant

(01:26:02):
and he comes Randy Orton. AndI mean, I'm a crazy for thinking
that. I mean, and I'mthe only one that felt that way.
It just kind of I love thematch itself was fantastic, but the actual
cash in segment and the use ofTriple H and Randy Orton again, it's
just it's just kind of boring.I mean, I just want to hear

(01:26:23):
your comments on that. Yeah,I'm I'm more excited than you, York
coming out of this weekend. Iguess I like what they did. I
think Randy Orton's position better as aheel. I've my preference is pretty much
always that the McMahon's should not bethe central heels. But when you have
a strong character like Randy Orton fightingfor them, and the potential for Triple

(01:26:43):
H to also be fighting for them, I'm more able to you know,
in a special match. At leastthere are some wrestlers who can actually carry
this out, especially Randy Orton athouse shows. I don't think you want
to put a ton of time intoheel characters who aren't going to work at
house shows. But I think youcan get away with it when Randy Orton
is working out child and he representsthe McMahon family. So overall, no,
I think I think they've reset thetable and have some momentum behind them,

(01:27:05):
and you know, we got tosee what they do from here.
But I'm Jason, I'm more morepositive than than our caller. I think
some mistakes were made. I neverwould have had Daniel Bryant actually win.
I really think you saved that moment. And I know people are pointing too,
well, I already won the WorldChampionship. Well they've They've made it
very clear w W Championship is moreimportant than the World Heavyweight Championship. So

(01:27:28):
I sit on that moment. Ireally would have had Randy Orton cash in
during the match. Uh, youknow, give it, give people everything
you saw except for Daniel Bryan.Get seen it in the s lock and
seen it looks like he's out,Triple H won't call for it. Randy
Orton cash is in, and thenthere's a little mystery as to you know,
seeing it can save face. Andyou saved that match Scena versus Brian

(01:27:53):
with the real outcome for a laterday. And you also put heat on
Triple H. You you put heaton and Randy Orton, but you saved
that first championship win for Daniel Bryanrather than giving it to people for a
minute or two. I will defendthem when it comes to Triple H and
the pedigree. I think everyone's lookingat it like a Triple H's just bigfooted,

(01:28:14):
and the pedigree he wants to looklike it's so dangerous. I'm not
even saying this was the right approach, but I think the idea they had
was that it would put more heaton Randy Orton. It would make him
look less deserving if he did nothing, absolutely nothing, just came out there
and covered him. I don't thinkI don't think it came off well the
way. I mean, that's apretty popular complaint. Yeah, all right,

(01:28:35):
let's squeezing one more call and thenwe'll wrap up. Three two three,
Please stay your name and where you'refrom? Friend from Los Angeles?
Hey friend, thanks for calling.What do we got first? Actually?
Yeah, I just want one thingI wanted to just jump on. That
is is, even if I totallyagree with what Jason just said, but
if they could have just given onekick out to that first p because it

(01:29:00):
took so long for him to getto cover it was on one kick up
the polace would have exploded, andthen another pedigree just to keep the heat
on Orton for that, I justthink they would have been amazing. Yeah,
and someone watched the last ten minutesof the show. But but yeah,
I just I was actually an accessand I just wanted to make a
comment about the real Americans and JackSwagger. Yeah uh, they did a

(01:29:25):
Q and A and I was reallydisappointed by how un serious Jack Swagger was
taking it. And I feel likemaybe Cesar was being hurt by being pulled
with him and it really I don'tknow, I just feel like he could
never Maybe maybe he's totally in ajoke mode. But I was really let

(01:29:45):
down by that we didn't. Ididn't see it, Fred, And I'm
curious what what was what did hedo and what was I mean, it
stills not just this is not conflictwith his reputation, but what what do
you mean that he didn't well sayso culture and everyone's really excited to hear
him because he's a fun guy tosee, especially in LA. They'll come
out and Cesar was you know,very into like doing the doing the we

(01:30:09):
the people and leading the crowd inthat it's kind of taking it seriously.
But then like all of Jack's questionswere like uh, and he's onming and
talking about mustache rides for Zeb CoulterAnd was he friend? Was he owned?
No, Okay, I'm not sayingthat, but he definitely definitely he
definitely seemed he didn't give any anyany serious answer they were in character or

(01:30:33):
really like he wanted to talk tothe fans at all. He was just
kind of like giving stupid answers toevery question and those are those are real
opportunities, I don't know, justto make a connection with the fans.
And it just feel like he didn'twant to be there and he didn't want
to take it seriously and he wasn'teven performing well. I mean, I
don't know. I think you gota glimpse and of insight into why he

(01:30:55):
was jobbed out for a year afterbeing a world champion. You know,
there's just they see something in himthat they don't see him as somebody that
they can lean on to represent thecompany. And there's maturity issues even at
his age and he's not twenty two. I mean, so he should have
advanced half that, And I meanmaybe he'd disagree and say that's what management
told me to do, or youknow, I don't know any better.

(01:31:16):
I thought I was doing my job, but it doesn't sound like, you
know, he was representing the situationproperly. He's with two great acts.
And one other things from from Accessthat I would surprised me was I saw
Bow Dallas perform. Yeah, andhe totally floundered when they brought him up
for that stuff he did with Barrett. But his character where he's portraying this

(01:31:40):
guy who's totally oblivious and is overthe top like gets bowtime and he is
really I really enjoyed it, andI think that there's there might be there
might be something in that to seeon TV again. At some point we'll
bring it up with us where hedoes. But yeah, we'll bring up
with Sean Waldman on Friday because hehe's seen a lot of playing in Yeah,

(01:32:01):
absolutely very cool. Fred. Thanksif you were Jason, We're gonna
go into the VAP after show nowand answer email questions. If you are
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(01:32:24):
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We put up a ten years agoWade Keller hotline that I did on August
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So that's a cool feature, butlots of new stuff also, including the

(01:32:45):
VAP after Shows following most editions ofthe live cast and also the interview Friday
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(01:33:09):
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(01:33:30):
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(01:33:50):
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(01:34:11):
thought breaking news second and I don'tforget. You can find this show at
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We've done it every day since thebeginning of May, over one hundred
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(01:34:34):
compelling feature and it's a reason tovisit pwtorch every single day as a daily
habit, and we hope you aredoing so. Jason, Thank you very
much. Any final plugs or wordsfrom you, check out Steve Karina on
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(01:34:58):
music for the livecast coming in andout of show. And on the other
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on the other side of the musicon the VP after Show, thanks for

(01:36:00):
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(01:36:20):
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listening experience. Pwtorch dot com slashgo vi IP. All right, we're

(01:36:41):
now to the VIP after show portionof the program. Jason, lots of
cover topics covered, but it feelslike so much not covered, also because
there's so much going on the lastforty eight hours. But I say we
once again let the emailers dictate whatwe cover next. Where's the end episode?

(01:37:03):
Did you just hear the sign offJason on the show? No?
I did not, and it eitherit's kind of weird. You know how
that guy I get Charnel. Yeah, maybe I think it cut us off
to ninety minute mark. She stilldidn't say anything though, I know it's
kind of weird. I don't.It's it's it's kind of an empty feeling.
I'm not quite sure. Whatever.Well, once in a while,

(01:37:23):
you know, we'll just start settlinginto this and then all of a sudden
she'll chime in, yeah maybe maybe. All right, Well we'll see anyhow,
let's uh, let's take some someemail questions here and see how this
works. Uh. This comes fromChris, who says, wait, and
Jason, how about the Board ofDirectors being the catalystic at Brian's title match
and make the McMahon's do the rightthing. Yes, we do have the

(01:37:45):
invisible uh, the invisible board ofdirectors that you know, have power over
insect man he ultimately, as apublic held company answers to the board.
Is that is that an out thatcan give the fans of sense that there's
some some law order. I suppose, you know what, I'm starting to
wonder, Vincent Hunter weren't exactly onthe same page going into this. Vince

(01:38:10):
is making it seemed like Triple Hsaw the light. I wonder if the
long term plan is and this willbe another repeat, but Triple H ends
up doing something that's even too muchfor Vince McMahon and somehow Vince McMahon ends
up becoming the baby face and allof this. Yeah, no, I
mean that that was that was proposed. It was one of several options on

(01:38:30):
the table that ultimately Vince would become, you know, the elder statesman,
good guy in Triple H would bethe guy who got out of control.
It seems to make more sense tohave it be the other way around,
if your goal is for Triple Hto ultimately be the person who represents the
company. But I don't think thatthat. Vinsickmann is thinking, well,
you know, I'm going to completelydisappear from television. One of the ten
years ago audio shows that we putup last week. There, you know,

(01:38:54):
there was a story about finnsick Manvolowing in a public interview that by
age sixty he would take himself offof television, and here he has at
what sixty seven? Jason did youtake here? You know back as a
very central figure on the show.So yeah, I still remember. I
still remember whole Coogan cutting a promoyears ago when he first joined WWF about

(01:39:14):
how he wouldn't be some old baldguy and when his sixties still wrestling taking
a jab at vern gun in wellwe saw we now see how that one?
Yeah? Uh, Scott Briller,when right back first appeared last year,
I thought he could dominate for years. The last few weeks he's fighting
with the food staff. Did theyhave any clue what they're going to do
with him? Talk about a wasteof talent? Who did he by the
way, who did he pick onlast night? Was it? Was it

(01:39:34):
the food staff changing out of theircatering clothes? What do we know who
those men were? I think theidea is that they were like enhancement or
not? Are just developmental or justtry out wrestlers. They never really explained
it. I don't I get.Yeah. I guess if he's he does
have that ongoing thing with the foodpeople, but I don't know. Do

(01:39:55):
they have their own locker room?I don't know. But if I'm a
developmental talent or getting tryouts, Ithink the weird thing coming out of that
isn't that w WB Let's does bullyrun around, you know, torturing people,
but that they send cameras into lockerrooms to film the newbies claim changing
clothes. I still think that's justreally weird. Yeah, that was really
awkward. I mean the nights thingfor WWE. If they really want to

(01:40:16):
go all the way with this,I mean they could bring in Brook Hogan
to be with with right back.Oh, now that that would be awesome.
Yeah, you're gonna put off goall the way, give him a
r own biker gang. There wego, oh man dooas back, Yes,
all right, let's roll through thesegotta ask questions. Uh duttona member

(01:40:36):
Arcade Lyon, Hey now I knowhis full real name from Houston, says,
can you see the path for DaniaBrown versus Randy Orton taking place at
Rosmania thirty and his seeing car rightfullyin the dockhouse for stopping the match last
night. I haven't heard anything aboutShin Carr and nothing would surprised me.
I don't think he should be.He looked like he was in obvious pain

(01:40:58):
if it's you know, addition,look at NBA players who dislocate their finger.
That's excruciating. And if you andif you wrestle with the type of
you know, it's like a handinjury. You need your hands to work
a match. And if a trainyou know, now, if if it's
WrestleMania and you're in a top match, can you dislocate the finger? Hopefully
the trainer can go and put thisfinger back into the socket and and then

(01:41:20):
you can continue the match even ifyou're in pain, because it's a big
moment. This was a throwaway matchon raw those price schedules to go on
in other twenty seconds or ninety seconds, and they actually turned it into an
angle that got del Rio over asa you know, brutal heel. So
I don't think he should be inthe doghouse. I mean, I don't
think he scores Brownie points when youknow, if he dislocates a pinky,
he can't wrestle, but he couldhave done permanent damage by continuing to wrestle

(01:41:41):
with a dislocated finger. That Imean, let's there's a lot of nerve
endings in your fingers. That's whywhen you're tortured, if you're you know,
like torture scenes in movies, theygo after you know, fingers because
there's so many nerve entings. SoI think that'd be unfair for seeing Car
to get a hard time for that, you know a little too much about
torture. Would Hey, I'll watchedtwenty four Daniel Bryan Randy won't WrestleMania thirty.

(01:42:03):
I wouldn't rule it out. Imean that was when I said earlier.
I just don't know the pace atwhich they're gonna play all of this
out, but I could see themdelaying Daniel Bryan getting that title, getting
a title win until Wrestomanian giving hima WrestleMania thirty moment, And in a
way it can help, you know, replace the Eddie Garrel Chris bandwi Wrestomania
twenty moment. I don't I don'tlike the omen if you're into that with

(01:42:23):
Daniel Bryan doing the diving headbut andthen ten years later getting you know this,
you know, closing scene of WrestleMania, you know, holding the w
WB title. But it would bea triumphant, fun moment storyline wise,
seeing is believing on WWE having thepatience to wait from SummerSlam until WrestleMania for
the you know, the the matchbetween Randy Orton and Daniel Bryan. I

(01:42:45):
mean they can get if Cripple hwants to get back and ring, they
could go in that over with it. I hate to say it. I
actually my guess is that they dothe opposite order, and like the long
term payoff is Daniel Bryan and TripleAsia RUSSELLMANNYA, Yeah, I could see
that too, I hope not.Yeah, And it could be Daniel Bryan

(01:43:09):
and a tag team with the LosMatadors against the Shield consisting of Seth Rollins,
Dean Ambrose and and austin Aries.I mean that's a long time away,
is what I'm saying, right exactlyall that can happen between knowing that
all right, Jade from North Carolinahaving emailed to guys in a while,
dude are not having a reason toemail as the storylines have not been too

(01:43:31):
newsworthy, but I email to commenton WWW for the heel turn of Morton
last night. Last night was exactlywhat Wade has want at WWW to do
for a while, as it feltlike a true he overs his baby face
fut Watching Daniel Bryan tut to byT Blakes before coming to the ring was
pure gold. My question for you, guys is how long do you think
WWE can keep Bryan and Chase modebefore he loses steam. I feel this
can go to Wrestle any thirty asDaniel Bryan is reaching stone cold levels of

(01:43:51):
overness at the moment. Thanks,guys. He's not. He's not.
I'm sorry, he's not. Theyes chant and the no chants are fun.
People are into it. He's verypopular. This is not Steve Austin
hysteria. I'm sorry. Right,I agree. I think that's a standard
that's almost unfair to hold somebody too. I will say though, that Daniel
Bryan is a baby face and RandyOrton is a heel, and the heels

(01:44:13):
are acting like villains and the babyfaces are acting with honor, and I
think that's a good basic foundation tohave. Yes, there's some flaws in
it, the demeaning of Daniel Brianin ways that might ring true, including
again talking about how short he islast night. At least they didn't say
he's like thin as a rail,you know, which is like the opposite
of true. That fins the mankept doing, you know, garden hoses

(01:44:33):
for arms and all that stupid stuff. But but the heels are heel issh.
Of course, the flaw there isthey're also running the company, so
I mean, it's not a perfectscenario. But I agree with what Jay
is saying in the sense that there'sthe baby faces are likable and the fans
are cheering them, and now RandyOrton is a heel. Now the question

(01:44:53):
is, will Randy Orton just youknow, like last time he was heel?
Will there be some fans who stillcheer him? And is he acting
in a way that will off setssome of that because he's so despicable in
the way that he went about winningthe title, and uh and so unapologetic
and you know, I don't know, I rains to be seen it,
does you know? One little tweakI would make with Randy with with Daniel

(01:45:15):
Bryan, time to lose the sillyT shirt beard. The beard to me
is not this guy's been wronged.He's out to get revenge and he's going
after the McMahons and Randy Orton.And that's just mid Card's zilliness to man.
I think if he's making a lotof money selling it, then keep
it on at w WB shop andat the news fans. But don't wear
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah,he shouldn't wear right, that's just dick

(01:45:38):
yep dot neet member Paul from Sunderland, England. How do you feel about
the Shield's new position as the apparentmuscle for Trip Latian vinccmahn and too.
While the announcers I'm sorry, whilstthe announcers it's an England thing. We
in America dropped the st We justsay wow. But whilst the announcers didn't
acknowledge it during the show. Doyou think the Primetime players win and possible

(01:46:00):
face turn was all due to thepress coverage stemming from Darren Young coming out
as game I didn't you know.I didn't even know the Primetime players are
heels to be honest, I didn'tsee anything helish about them in recent months,
but I mean they were matching againstbaby faces. So I guess that
made them heals. That's just it. Yeah, yeah, And I like
how we teach the English how tospeak English, how to cut out the
unnecessary pretentious syllables anyway any house?Oh I like that. Yeah, how

(01:46:29):
about the shield new position? Arethey the new muscle for tripleations man?
Or were they just kept off thestage Jason to make it, you know,
to keep them off the stage.They din't have been on the stage.
They always come through the crowd,so it would have been weird to
have them standing on the stage.I don't know that they were so much
the muscle from the McMahons. Asthey said what do we do with the
shield? They said, let's putthem at ringside, and then they were
sort of, you know, thede facto guys to beat up Daniel Bryan.
I'm not sure how to interpret ityet. Well, yeah, I'm

(01:46:50):
not entirely, but I do leantoward yeah, they're the muscle because they
were also the first the guys theyput in there against Big Show and Dolf
Ziegler or anyone who would wrong TripleH by speaking out against him up next
to me. Lots of questions,so I'm rolling through room freedom. Uh
he didn't sign it, but that'sthe beginning of his email says, uh,

(01:47:10):
do you see Paul Hayman is potentiallybeing the pat Patterson to Triple H
in terms of a right hand manand a trusted advisor, even though they
might not get along. Well,if not, where do you see him?
And who else could be in TripleA's cabinet? So to speak?
Also, I skimmed a rumor onthe web somewhere that said del Rio may
have been in a street fight thenight before SummerSlam. That's getting black guy.
Any truth to that? Quick commenttiss Incara Soapacchi'm not sure what that

(01:47:31):
is, but yes, we talkedabout that earlier. Del Riel was in
a in a scrap. You know, we had a fan who who dance?
Who want a contest to dance withtons of funk? And he talks
about how del Real was just aprick backstage, you know, just stared
stared him down and made it madehim feel unwelcome backstage, like you know,
you don't belong back here. AndI mean del Rio just has a
rep for being kind to like hisgimmick, and so I'm not shocked that

(01:47:55):
he might you know, get ina bar fight. But yeah, that
that happened. Every Sunday night,catch Wrestling Night in America on Pwtorch Dailycast
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(01:48:19):
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(01:48:42):
every Sunday, Pwtorch Dailycast dot Com. Uh, Paul heyman, then what's
the future And could he be somebodywho who triple hs you know, just

(01:49:03):
be grudgingly or not comes to embraceas somebody who can really help the company
in the long run. Yeah,I mean, I just don't know what
the current dynamic of the relationship is. But I would like to think that
that's someone Triple h would would wouldlisten to if Paul can accept that role.

(01:49:24):
If Paul, I mean, andyou know, it just it does
seem like Paul has changed. Wejust don't hear the stories about Paul seeking
power like we used to, ordoing things that are even interpreted as him
making power plays. If you know, it's they've had such It's not so
much Triple Hian Paul have had thehistory. It's a Triple hious in laws

(01:49:45):
and wife included have had the issueswith Paul. They're working together now,
you know, can that trust everfully be there? I don't know,
but I mean, wait, Ican. I don't know that. I
can think of too many people i'drather and kind of that Pat Patterson advisory
role to Triple AH long term.I know, I know Paul is just
so good at what he's doing.Yeah, I just got ratings in By

(01:50:08):
the way, I'll jump in hereon the VF do you have to show
get you Have you seen the ratingsyet for viewers? I've seen viewership and
not the rating. Yeah, ratingsup a good amount. It runs down
to a three point two, butit was a three point two four rating
looking back, yeah, I mean, looking back at the chart, we've
got to go back to uh theRod day after Wrestomania, which was a

(01:50:29):
three point four five to get abigger pop. And even then after that
you have to go or before that, you have to go back to March
twenty fifth for a three point twofour rating that matches it. There are
a few ratings in that range inMarch in WrestleMania season. So yeah,
a good number for WWE. Imean, it's kind of the last gasp
before Labor Day and Monday Night Football. But they have to feel good that

(01:50:53):
they set the bar that high goinginto the fall season with a with a
big show, and they did goagainst one and football last time. And
it's granted it's pre season, butit's still you know, people are still
watching five point five seven five millionviewers for the Redskins and Steelers games.
So at three point two up againstthat is pretty good. I mean,
it's gonna jump way up and beyou know, went well beyond that once

(01:51:13):
the NFL regular season kicks in.Their their ratings will be I don't know
way what at least double. Imean, I'm trying to think of what
the best Monday night football games do, and I think it's well twelve million,
I think, but I'm not.That's what I was thinking too soon
between ten and fourteen. So youknow they're they're but so, yeah,
I enjoy it, well you can, I guess. Yeah. It was

(01:51:34):
the number one show on all maledemographics, including teens. It was the
best show among male teams for theentire year, and the nine pm hour
scored the highest among male teams.Ten pm hour the highest among a couple
other key demos. The rating inthe third hour did drop, but it
wasn't a huge drop, and itdid much better than the first hour.
They did four point four point height million first hour, four point four

(01:51:56):
nine second hour, and then fourpoint three three third hour, So the
third hour did considerably better than thefirst hour. That it's not always a
case, and the drop off wassmaller than usual in that third hour,
but it was still a drop off. But you know that is simply because
some people watch two hours and that'sall they that's all they're gonna watch,
and it's either one and two ortwo and three. And simple mass is
that second hour is gonna have moreof those two our viewers because most people

(01:52:18):
are gonna watch our one, skiphour two, and come back for our
three. So logic is there thathour two does better. But what you
look for is the smallest drop offpossible afterwards, and that's what they have.
And I would say two with preseasongoing on, and you know a
little bit of a different animal,two where you're going to see people leaving
the football game. They're gonna dotheir best numbers early in that game because

(01:52:40):
that's when the starters are planning.Did I lose you, Wade Killer?
Nope, I just had to sayhi. I just had to say hi
to my neighbor. Hello neighbor.Yep. The what was the last thing
you said? Oh, I justit was talking about preseason and now you
know the rating is going to startstronger for a preseason game than an end
just because of the starters playing whenthey do. Oh right, yep,

(01:53:03):
yep, that's that's true too.All right, this was a very long
question, so I'm going to readthat while you're answering a shorter question.
That's another long one, let's seehere. Wow, were just so many
questions coming out of last night show. Not shocked by this at all.
Geez, these are essays, peopleessays. All Right, Wade and Jason,

(01:53:26):
do you think the man Orton contentioncan be viable? Viable enough for
the fans to cheer Sena on hisreturn? How long do you expect the
new Cheech and Chong, RVD andRicardo to stay together? Well, Ricardo
rejoined del Rio or represent various challengersagainst him? Thanks for taking my questions,
David from ephis You know, Imean, I don't think del Rio
needs Ricardo, but at the sametime, I think Ricardo have something,

(01:53:49):
and if if this turnout could besome swerve on on RBD, I would
accept that. I don't know whythey really Again, he doesn't need him,
but I don't know why they splitthose two up when I mean there's
just seemingly nothing else for Ricardo todo. I mean, it's not r

(01:54:09):
VD was with Bill Alfonso, andI'm guessing when they got put together,
I probably shook my head and said, what but it? You know that
worked? Maybe this will this willwork better than we think. I did
get a kick out of Van damnon backstage fall out when he was asked
a question. He's like, Ihave a mouthpiece now I don't need I
don't I don't need to talk anymore. Sorry, I was trying to preview

(01:54:30):
a question. I lived up tomy promise of not listening to you while
I was screening. No, soif you threw to me for a comment,
I can't react. No, it'sit's all good, very good.
The next question, this is Jerry, do you think Triplachi is bearing?
By the way, I'll go backand review everything you say Jason afterwards.
Oh so I'm just saying I younot listening. I've just been bad mouthing

(01:54:53):
you for the last five Yeah.Ever since you talked about the neighbor,
I'm like, oh man, Igot free, get him here. I
feel bad, you know, Ifor the after show. If it's a
nice day, I move on tothe porch and and uh, you know,
sit down and contact the show.And I got my head set on.
And this neighbor, who is anolder woman, she's not to get
into too many dealle, but she'svisiting her husband in the hospital and she
gets dropped off by a family memberright around this time. Every week and

(01:55:15):
I'm sitting on the porch and she'slike waves and starts wanting to talk to
me, and I like, don'thave to blow her off this, you
know, eighty ish, your oldwoman, and I go, I'm doing
a podcast. I don't think sheknows what a podcast is. So I'm
just like, I'm this this punkneighbor who won't say hello and be talkative,
and you know, blows off andanyway, I feel bad, So

(01:55:35):
I'd just give her the burden,be downe with it. Sever that relation
for all. Well, I practicallydid last week, not really, but
I never mind anyway. It's justit's tough. I have to. I
have to pull her aside and explainto her why I'm being rude or coming
across this room. All right,Jerry says, do you think the Triple
H is they? Do you thinkTriple ch is bearing talent? Well,

(01:55:56):
the home mcmanh sing with Brian bysaying stuff like hey shield guys, as
well as making himself the focus ofthe turn and not Orton. Is that
going to turn people off? Iwant to see the next generation By moving
the belt from scene at Orton,you have just replayed one old star with
another. Well, first of all, I'll start and I would say I
do not consider Orton an old star. He's been around just over ten years.
He started young. He is absolutelyin his prime, and he's been

(01:56:16):
out of the spotlight for a while. Orton is a guy who is in
his prime earning years, and Undertakerwasn't even in the zone yet at Randy
Orton's age. Shawn Michaels hadn't hadyou know, who was sitting out with
an injury at this point, hadn'thad the second half of his career yet.
So I would not agree with callingOrton anything but perhaps the best wrestler
in the industry Daniel Bryant and seehim punk in that conversation in w w

(01:56:39):
A. But let's not start rightnow Forton because he's not, you know,
in his twenties anymore. So that'smy first answer. Second of all,
yes, I mean trip, it'striple h's nature to a fault to
be to talk like that. Youknow, Hey, Shield guys, you
know he's he talks like that.I'm not even sure quite sure how to
describe it, but it's kind ofprickish. I don't think he means it

(01:57:00):
that way. But he needs someoneto maybe pull him aside and say,
you know how this comes across.Maybe nobody has the guts to tell you
this because you're the boss now,but you need to rein that in And
if you weren't the boss, someonewhould tell you that. They'd be nice.
Yeah. See, let's we're herefor to be truth to power.
Yeah, it'd be nice. Hewas listening and say, hey, I

(01:57:21):
could do better with that. ButI just yeah, I mean that's kind
of an issue I have with thiswhole thing too, is I think the
McMahon's are in the way. Idon't think they're needed. They're gonna look
at ratings and so they're up andthey're gonna give themselves a credit when they
are and when they're down, they'reprobably gonna find reasons that if someone else's
fault, it's just bounced. Theway it works. I think there are

(01:57:45):
a lot of good things happening inWWE. If they want to be on
the air in doing something to reallyprop up someone else, do something special
to make someone and I think that'show they look at it with Daniel Bryan,
and I just don't think it's necessary. I think they could have told
this entire story with just Randy Orton, and you take the McMahon's out of
it, and I think it's goingto be just as hot. Right now.

(01:58:06):
I think there's gonna be more attention. People are gonna be more fired
up about seeing Randy Orton and DanielBryan than they are right now, even
though you know, even though that'sthe match ultimately they'll get because there's just
all in McMahon family involvement. Nowyou've got the shield, and I just
I think this was all unnecessary.Yeah, yeah, I think you're right.

(01:58:29):
And yet I think the McMahons aren'tgoing to see it that way because
they seen themselves as the stars,and they walk around being the stars everywhere
they go. You know, they'rethe McMahon they're royalty, the wrestling royalty,
and I think they think it's notserving the stockholders unless they make themselves
a centerpiece. And yeah, Imean, and there could be some USA
pressure. I mean I wouldn't eventhough I kind of had my theory that
they're doing this heading into contract televisioncontract negotiation. I mean, it just

(01:58:51):
as easily could be what it's beenin the past, where USA really wants
them on the air to boost thoseratings. If it's me, I saved
that for football season, I don'tdo it when they did it. I
don't panic to those because what carddo they have to play now come football
season. I mean maybe John Cenareturns earlier or something like that, but
it's not like that. I don'tthink that was planned either, right,

(01:59:15):
YEA. One way that you canhelp us sustain our schedule of putting out
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Just go to Apple Podcasts and lookfor our Weight Killer Processing podcast and
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(01:59:40):
and do us favor and give usa five star rating and Apple Podcasts.
That helps us on search returns andhelps us grow. And if you want,
you can add a few comments aboutwhat you like about the programs in
the comments section. Thank you somuch. Brandon from Guam. I just
want to fall up on question.Last week. I was glad to see
Bray wore a plane tank top lastnight as opposed to a merchandise gimmick.

(02:00:03):
You know, it's riots character.Also, yes, if the Shield has
had shirts, they've had two,but neither of them have been worn or
even shown on TV. That goesthrough what we're saying about Brian and the
Beard is you know, fear thebeard? Yep, you know, don't
don't. You can have a Tshirt for sale and get your royalties,
but don't make it seem like you'reendorsing it to get royalties. Also,
I was wondering if you guys hadany ideas to what the long term payoff
for Bully ray will be. Hey, TNA, I think it'd be neat

(02:00:26):
if one of those in one ofthose kids, he'd be picking on a
smaller or normal looking guy from NXPand uh and have that NXT guy stand
up to stand up to and getthe better of him. Just a thought.
Thanks for right, guys, doJason. I plan to join dot
net soon. Oh I'm sorry.He called him Bully Rye just like dude
did and I just glossed right over. So it's not a teena question,
all right, it is, butit is, Hey, I am I

(02:00:50):
mean someone's going to stand up toI who that is. I haven't heard
anything. Nothing really jumps out atme as far who's going to be the
big defender. I mean, Iguess what you do is just kind of
look at who if it's someone onthe main roster who doesn't have a real
program right now, and I'm nottalking to your our truths of the world,
you know, if there's somebody outthere they really plan on doing a

(02:01:12):
program with, it's gonna just gonnabe somebody that doesn't have something currently and
no one I'm not seeing anyone,so you can't rule it out the possibility.
But it's someone from NXT. Imean, Sammy Zane is small enough
in stature where I think it wouldbe kind of fun if he did stand
up to him. But I don'tknow. I haven't It's been about a

(02:01:33):
month since I've gotten an update onhim, and they really like his upside.
But I talked about this last enteringthe live show or not net Weekly.
It's all starting to run together atthis point. But I know the
knock on him was the same thingthat pretty much every guy who comes from
the indy scene has, no matterhow talented they are, they need to
teach them to slow down. Theyneed to help them with psychology, get

(02:01:56):
them to slow down and make theirmoves count. And so that still an
issue with him. Doesn't mean they'redown on him at all, that they're
they're high on him. But Imean that, you know, kind of
a rye back Bully Ray type goingagainst Sammy Zane in kind of almost an
I don't Sean Waltman roll, youknow, where's just kind of the the
underdog where you don't he stands upto the bully, and there's some you

(02:02:20):
know, you think the bully's justgoing to destroy this guy because not to
the average person or not to thethe die hard fan who watches NXT or
knows that he was El Generico,but the average fan out there is just
gonna look at this guy like heprobably blend right in as one of the
cooks if they wanted him too wayright, Yeah, I mean, I
hope they know where they're going withit, and I hope there's a payoff,

(02:02:43):
you know, I don't know.I mean, I mixed feelings about
the gimmick. I don't hate itas much as some of the callers and
much as Bruce Mitchell bothers me,what's that? It's just a rip off,
a bully. Ray that's a bothersme. I don't even have a
I don't even have a big problemwith being a ripoff. And if if
it fits right back, TNA isso off the radar in a way and
bullying, you know, it's abig thing with TNA anyway, you know

(02:03:04):
that will be a star campaign.So if this is to set up right
back to fall, that's fine.I mean, Rybek represents how some you
know, high schoolers and college kidsact, and junior high school kids for
that matter, and you know,I just I think at some point they'll
be I think at how shows fanswill take great joy in seeing Raybeck get
shown up. And I mean thegoal of wrestling is to portray somebody as

(02:03:26):
someone you want it heals, assomeone you want to see get what they've
got coming. And Raybek is buildingup a lot of equity in that sense
where people want to see him getbeat up and showing up. And I
think there's some things they can dowith the character. Is he a top
tier level guy with this character?Is this act? No? But I
think management felt like they you know, for better for worse. They just
felt like he wasn't someone they coulddo do that with, you know,

(02:03:48):
do a full, full, fullpush too. At this point they didn't
fell comfortble with then. And Ithink, you know, mid twenty fourteen,
it's probably going to be when wesee him moved to the top tier
again. And if if then andhe's going to be in kind of a
specialty bully roll in the meantime,I'd be surprised if he's in a major
Magic Rossomania thirty. I think ifif he is, I think WWB management
will feel like they, you know, used him as a fallback plan.

(02:04:10):
But we'll see. I'll tell youwhat, Wait, whoever that guy is,
you know, if they do bringsomeone in and just stand up to
the bully, if he wears ab A star shirt, I'm going to
vomit. Yes, all right,final question, We got a couple of
these. I'll read Jaz's Matt Baneticemailed also, and I think Bruce and
Travis covered this yesterday too. ButJesse Thornson noted on his High Spots shoot
interview that his mother went bankrupt tryingto cover his medical bills for his next

(02:04:31):
surgery after teena passed them paying themafter the situation with Daphne, and now
this is it time for TEENA tostart including health insurance in its contracts,
or start people enough, or startpaying people enough so they can afford it,
or just refuse to sign someone unlessthey're medically covered. It seems like
the issue of medical bills will keepcoming up time and time again UNLSTNA does
something about it. Yeah, Imean Jason, you know, Bruce was

(02:04:51):
kind of like yesterday, yeah toall that. But if you're a wrestler,
you know, find a way toget insured or take fewer chances in
the ring. And there's there's youknow, if you're Jesse Sorenson and you
didn't have medical insurance and TENA didn'tgive you medical insurance, you knew going
in there was a risk of injury, and you have to consider the possibility
that if you get hurt and TNAdoesn't have you covered with medical insurance and

(02:05:15):
you're not covered, it's going toscrew you over. I think the issue
people have with TNA is one theyknow how filthy rich the Carter family is,
and that Dixie Carter talks about we'rea family, the wrestlers and I
look at this as family, andI'm cared about everybody's jobs, and the
claim that she said will take careof you, and so those are the
things that I think make the situationcome across as as offensive to people's sensibilities

(02:05:41):
that Jesse Sorenson is having to dealwith this. I don't know that Jesse's
handling it perfectly. I think fromthe skit we are not the skip but
the video feature with Jesse and hismom, I don't think we should be
surprised at, you know, thatthat they're handling it the way that they're
handling it, which is not perfect. But at the same time, I
don't think with what they've been throughand then what they were told and what
the reality is, that we haveto hold them the great PR standards either.

(02:06:02):
I just think it's being handled thepr initie that's maybe a little clunky
at this point, but yeah,I just I think it's bad PR for
TNA, and I think Dixie Carter, with a certain audience that is aware
of this, has lost a lotof goodwill. And I mean it's I
can't even rule this out. Idon't know this to be true, but
I can't even rule out that DixieCarter had every intention of making good on

(02:06:23):
whatever promises were made at the timeshe made them in the hospital room,
and may still feel like those shouldbe honored. But I don't sense that
it's Dixie Carter handling the finances ofTNA, you know. I mean,
they're obviously making cuts and everything else. I cut back and restructuring and all

(02:06:44):
that. He just wonder if like, this is something that she thinks should
be done, but the parent companyis like, no, we're not doing
that. I tell you what,if I'm Jesse Sorenson and his mother,
I'm contacting a lawyer that happened inthe ring, I'm the job, Yeah,
that even. I mean, Iwould think even if he had health
insurance. Way, if the healthinsured the insured look into that and it

(02:07:06):
happened on the job, I justwonder if they'd be like, wait,
we're not paying this. Why whywould we pay it if it happened that
you're at your place of employment?Right, I think, what's the things
Dixie has said she could help outof her own pocket off record and just
quiet everything down. I mean that'svery true. Yeah, I mean I
don't think Dixie's curt for money,so there is that aspect too, all

(02:07:28):
right, Jason got a couple essayquestions. I'm not gonna get you because
we're at the two our mark,but any anything else you want to any
lass subject, if you want tocover, would that that you haven't covered
on your audio shows yet? Ohgosh, if we've done so many of
them lately, I think we've gottenI think I think we've touched on damn
near everything. We didn't get muchTNA related they did announce today. All
Coogan put it on his Twitter pagethat he and Dixie haven't listened to the

(02:07:49):
fans and they are giving up onthe three Way X Division matches for the
title. It will be singles matchesgoing forward. I don't know about you
way, I never cared for theidea of making all those matches three ways.
No. I admire them for tryingto find some concrete way to differentiate
the X title the extradition from theheavyweight division because they just haven't been clear

(02:08:11):
about it. But I think alot of the ideas that they had gut
check and Open Fight Night and thethree Way X Division, they were ideas
that they you know, and inbrock Hogan being in charge of the knockouts.
I mean they try to add allthese kind of reality and show within
a show type features, and theyhad a lot of ideas. Ultimately it's

(02:08:33):
it's like somebody emailed today in sucha team they bring back this excited ring.
It's like it doesn't matter what thewindow dressing is or the format is
if they don't have the core thing, the core fundamentals down. They need
an identity as a company, andan identity it's not gut check or three
way X division matches. They needto figure out their identity as and then
they need to push the fundamentals andget heat on heels and build around a

(02:08:54):
strong baby face that fans believe cango in the ring still not Hokogan,
not staying and make the promotion aboutsomething, and right now it's not about
something. It's a bunch of pieces, clever, innovative, outside the box
ideas, all packaged into a wrestlingshow that doesn't have an identity otherwise,
and everything else doesn't matter. Youknow, it's it's dressing up a hamburger,

(02:09:16):
but the burger is burger is awful, the bunnet stale. It doesn't
matter what kind of topics you puton it. You know you're not gonna
help it. They need to worryabout the core business and the core identity
of the company. And so,you know, I'm glad Hogan took time
out of his day to tweet thatwe listened to you and we're not going
to do three ways anymore. Mycynical side of me just says that,
so they only have to pay twoguys instead of three for these matches.

(02:09:37):
There's something maybe something through that too, you know. It just they struggled.
They had enough. They've had ahard enough time getting individuals over in
the X Division, and I thinkwhen you started throwing three guys in there,
it just made it more of achallenge. I don't think they were
equipped to do it. I thinkthey were looking forward. Let's just have

(02:09:58):
train wreck match and the athleticism isgoing to carry it. That's what people
really want when they think of theX Division, and I think, like
anything else in wrestling, people yeah, they may enjoy the athleticism, that's
a big part of it, butthey want character development and there just were
too many random guys doing a bunchof flips, and so hopefully they also

(02:10:22):
realize that that's part of the issueand we'll address that as well. Yep,
yep, very good. All right, Jason, we'll wrap up on
that note. Think but one morewait, do you think I was kind
of hoping Hulk would follow up withDixie and I listen to you, and
that's why we get rid of Brooke. No, no, no, I
don't think Hulk would be saying thatanytime soon. Okay, but that would

(02:10:43):
be that would be that would benewsworthy if Hogan likes making headlines. Yeah,
I'm still trying to find out.I mean, I've heard it's amicable
and all that, but I'm stillwaiting to find out if there's any ruffled
feathers over that one. I don'tthink she did herself any favors by,
you know, announcing the engagement,and I'm guessing they had some plans there,

(02:11:03):
but still surprising when you know,Hulk Cogan such a big part of
that company that they severed ties withhis daughter. Yep, yep, all
right, very good. We'll wrapup on that note, and again,
thank the dot NEM members and thepole of your Torch VIAP members for joining
us. It's been a long coupledays. Jason and I got the new
fletter deadline in front of me anduh big smack on taping tonight in front

(02:11:24):
of you. Absolutely. Yeah,We've got a couple of people who say
they're going to help us out ascorrespondence. We should have those, and
I'm guessing the Torch will as well. So do this again next week within
sounds great. Oh and I maynot be here next week. I might
have a COMPLI we might have adifferent oath sext week, but I'll be
back to the week after, sowe'll talk about that. An email sound
good? All right? Invite youto email the show with feedback or questions

(02:12:03):
or comments. That email address isWade Keller Podcast at pewtorch dot com.
That's Waight Keller Podcast at pwtorch dotcom. Also welcome your feedback on Twitter.
You can follow us on Twitter atpwtorch and follow me at the Wade
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(02:12:24):
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you so much. Are you anostalgic wrestling fan? Do you want to
hear about shows you haven't seen inten, twenty, maybe even thirty years?

(02:13:07):
While I have the show for you. Impwsworch dot com contributor Frank Petty
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together with a rotating chair of cohosts. We go back and review old
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(02:13:31):
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(02:13:54):
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(02:14:22):
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(02:18:41):
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10 YRS AGO - FLAGSHIP: Keller & Powell talk Summerslam and Raw fallout including babyface depth without Cena, too much of the McMahons, more

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}10 YRS AGO - FLAGSHIP: Keller & Powell talk Summerslam and Raw fallout including babyface depth without Cena, too much of the McMahons, more