10 YRS AGO - FLAGSHIP: Keller & Powell talk the return of Goldust, viewership analysis, Triple H's digs at Edge not drawing a dime, more - Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Wade fifty to get fifty percent offnow. Pw Dorgan Spreaker bring you the
Wade Killer Pro Wrestling Podcast ten yearsago. This week, Jason Publick Pro

(02:38):
Wrestling Dotnett joined me on the flagshipand we talked about the return of gold
Dust, viewership analysis, our reactionto Triple H's digs at Edge not drawing
a dime, Daniel Bryde against DeanAmbrose, live callers and emails, brought
up a lot of other topics.We talked a little NFL. At the
end, we talked about the finalHype four Night of Champions and more.

(03:00):
This originally live streamed on September tenth, twenty thirteen, and it is today's
Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast ten yearsago Flagship Flashback. Welcome to the p
wtrch Live Cast. I am WadeKeller, editor and publisher of the Pro
Wrestling Torch newsletter since nineteen eighty sevenand also pwtorch dot com since nineteen ninety

(03:23):
nine and now the Pwtorch apps oniPhone, Android, Amazon, Kendle,
Fire, Windows phones, and SimpsonsSmart TV's, and also hosts. Will
be PW Torch Live cast every Tuesdayin Friday. I am hosting, but
the live cast is on five daysa week and sometimes six. In this
coming a week, it'll be sixdays because we'll have a Nina Champions postgame

(03:44):
show about a half hour after theshow ends at eleven thirty Eastern. James
Caldwell and Greg parksby by to reviewthe show and take your live phone calls.
But today is Tuesday, and thatmeans Jason Powell of Pro Wrestling dot
Net joins me. Jason, goodto be back. Good to be back.
Yeah, man, it feels likeit's been more than a week,
doesn't it. It's uh yeah,I think it's been three weeks. Has

(04:09):
it been that long? Yeah?We both we both of us missed last
week and the week before James Hillsdid with you. Oh that's right,
Okay, Now i'she what you're saying. Absolutely. Yeah. So three full
weeks since we last we're on togetheron a Tuesday. A lot has happened
since then, and we've got lastnight's row to talk about. Have you
seen ratings, yes, Jason forlast night or our viewership viewership? I

(04:30):
have, yes? What's it?What's it looked like? Oh, let
me get that up. I justput it on the site and put it
out of mind for a second.It They ended up with three point eight
eight five million viewers, down fromlast week's three point nine four Last week
was Labor Day, so that wasdown from the week before, which was
four point one nine million. Probablythe I think that's the better number to

(04:51):
compare it to Monday Night Football withthe doubleheader ended up doing some pretty big
numbers for ESPN last night. AndI mean, it's not gonna wait.
I don't think it's going to bethis bad throughout the course of the season
when they just you know, thisis the only double header that they'll face,
so now it's just kind of there'sgonna be some matchups that are better
than others. The ESPN doubleheader lastnight average thirteen point seven three seven million

(05:16):
for the two games that were onduring primetime, and last week's rating for
Raw was was it right around fourpoint zero? Remember? Oh gosh,
last week's rating was three Let's see, No, two point eight five is
what I have? Two point eightfive? Okay, so two point eight
five, I'm gonna do math andjust predict how close I came to my

(05:38):
prediction here. So if I dothree point eight eight five, this is
great. Radio times two point eightfive divided by three point nine forward zero
get to about a two point eightrating. So we'll see if that holds
up. But yeah, I've bothTravis Brian yesterday on the live cast predicted
a two point seven six rating,and it was very weird because Bruce asked

(06:00):
him what he thought the rating wouldbe, and I just kind of set
out loud to nobody, probably twopoint seven six, and then immediately Travis
Bryant says two point seven six.So I'm going to be impressed if it
turns out to be two point sevensix. I have no proof chasing that
Travis and I were on the samewave length, though I was worried because
I've just finished listening to your Rawaudio and you kept saying three point something.
I'm like, oh no, Ihope he doesn't think they're gonna skyrock.

(06:24):
I figured it would just number.Oh did I like jump up to
three point eight instead of two pointeight? Yeah, it's it's too many
numbers. Now you know what mylife is like a math wid Oh yeah,
well all right, well hopefully peopleknow what I mean. All right.
Well, last not on Raw wasthe final chance for w to hype
Night A Champions and we know JasonNight A Champions is known as the event

(06:46):
were all the champions defend all theirtitles. And I came away from Raw
thinking about one non title match withthe Icy Champ and Daniel Bran and Randy
Orton to the w w E titleand then a little bit obviously Del Rio
and Rob Van. Damn. Itdoesn't feel like they embraced this theme pay
per view. And I'm not criticizingit. I'm just pointing it out.
They kind of are maybe starting torealize certain theme pay per views aren't worth,

(07:09):
you know, aren't going to upthe buys, and that with people
buy wrestling pay per views for it'sthe same thing they buy USC pay per
views, is the top two orthree matches, star power and something a
personal grudge rivalry with something important atstake, be it pride or a title
or contendership. And I don't thinkit was a bad decision on their part.
I don't think whatever you know,they hyped in terms of you know,

(07:30):
if they gave more hype to theDiva's title defense or more to US
title or whatever, I don't thinkthat would have added a lot to it.
But this was really focused on kindof two and a half matches,
which seems to be their formula lately. Yeah. I mean, we don't
even know what the undercard is,it feels like, and unless they point
on having Orton and Ryan go reallylong or something like that, it just
seems like they're you know, there'sno Intercontinental title match BETE Intercontinental Champions on

(07:54):
the show right now, there's noUS Championship match. They've laid the groundwork
for it, and then they justkind of stopped with Dean Ambrose and Dolph
zig Were last night, which wasodd. Maybe they'll just pick that up
on SmackDown. You know, Iget they have the titles so, I
mean they're on every show. It'sit feels like all but the World Tech
Championships and certainly the pay per views. It feels like they might as well

(08:18):
have every title defended, and waymore often than not. But there's something
about when the music kicks in.When they do it right on Night of
Champions and they really do have theright musical selection for it. They have
the banners hanging the show, allthe title belts, it looks really good,
it sounds great. They create thisvibe that's just too late. I

(08:39):
mean, it's great as a payper view buyer, but if they would
try to create that vibe on televisionleading into the pay per view, I
think they would actually sell more payper views because of it. It reminds
me of the opening to Clash ofthe Champions as you described it. Remember
the original Clash Champions, all thebelts just paraded by in the screen.
Obviously the graphics and the technology weredifferent. But but yeah, yeah,

(09:00):
I mean, if they I likewhen it seems like they're pushing the prestige
in the history of the titles,but I don't think that should take a
that that should override promoting the personalgrudge and the personal feelings and emotions involved.
So I think they can do both, but last night was a real
focus on the on the actual personalgrudge between Daniel Bryan and Randy Orton.

(09:24):
Your sums up for thumbs down.As far as what they did with Brian
and Norton this week, oh,kind of just because it's go home week,
kind of a thumbs down. Theyhaven't. I don't. I don't
know how anyone could watch recent televisionand not be asking themselves the obvious question,
which is if Daniel Bryan's winning,where I want the mcmanhagus screwm out
of the title again, there's youknow, they haven't addressed that. I

(09:46):
mean, what we saw last night, Wait, I was entertained by it.
I thought, if this is justanother week of television, not go
Home Week. I liked what theydid with those two, but it is
go Home week, and I'm justI can't think of another pay per view
they done this year that I've justfelt less excited by. I think they're
gonna have some good matches on theshow, but we get that every month.

(10:07):
I mean, I don't mean totake it for granted, but it's
it's true. The build for thishad just left a lot to be desired.
Yeah, and it didn't it beingthe go home show, the final
pay that's the industry term that gotto popularized few years ago for the last
robb before pay per view, thelast SmackDown before pay per view. I
think Jim Ross started saying it publiclyand everyone latched onto it, and it

(10:28):
just means we're ready to go home. Let's let's uh, you know,
it's final chance to hype this show. And yeah, it didn't have that
crescendo feeling that I think we lookfor. I did like that it was
about more about Randy Orton and DanielBryan last night. Triple Achian staff were
on the stage, not in thering. It wasn't Triple Atian Daniel Bryan's
face at the end. Randy Ortonhad a lot of speaking roles. Randy

(10:50):
Orton was the one in Brian's facetelling and in Big Show's face. Actually,
you know, he was really helishand unlikable. And then Daniel Bryan
showed that he's resilient and that whenhe had time to read cover, he's
able to knock him. Knock outOrton with his running knee so, and
I thought there was some good commentarygoing on. I thought it was some
of the negatives of the past coupleof weeks were more absent. I don't
think there was a lot of collateraldamage. I mean, what they can't

(11:13):
just abandon what they did with BigShow last week, but at least this
week, he didn't make himself seemeven more of a guy who would put
his job ahead of friend, aheadof his friends, and ahead of his
pride. Although I did like toquote Chase and I can remember who which
the announcer said it, but thatall that Big Show has left is his
pride. And I'm like, that'slike the only thing he doesn't have right
now is his pride. He's gothis job, he's got his health,

(11:33):
he's still alive barely according to Stephanie, but he doesn't have his pride.
It's like the total opposite. SoI thought that was kind of interesting anyway,
the fact that he's out through Imean, something's going down with him
on Sunday, right. They wouldn'thave him be just I mean, he
was in the picture last night forthe go Home segment. Of the final

(11:54):
segment of the Go Home Show,he has to be involved. There has
to be the finished, must involvedbig show in some way, shape or
form. You'd think you'd think onewildcard question for you and then we'll all
go to calls a little earlier thannormal. Shane McMahon. Somebody asks this,
fimil, Why are more people nottalking about Shane McMahon as the payoff
to this angle, as the goodMcMahon who's going to come in and show

(12:16):
people don't worry when you support thew w E brand, it's not going
to these jerks Stephanie and Triple H. I have rested control of you know,
I've gone to the board and we'vetaken over, and we're going to
make sure that there's an even playingfield and that Triple H can't get away
with all this stuff, and thathe comes back and he plays it on
her role. Why is that notbeing talked about more? The person who
email said, you know he'd lefthis job. He's it's like the timing

(12:37):
might be right. Why is everyonejust kind of writing him off or not
talking about him. It's just outof sight, out of mine. I
think I actually brought this up whenI was on with James said, there's
all you know, it's a longshot, but there's always Linda and Shane
out there to come in and saythat Triple H. It may have been
Dot in it weekly too. I'mjust get my audio confused sometimes when I
say, well, let's what Seanhold Jason, you go listen for a

(12:58):
couple hours and ships I'll do that. Yeah. No, but I you
know, that could be their wayout of this is okay, Hunter,
Yes you're in the family, Yesyou have this position, but you share
your share of the company with Stephanie, and so if they don't want to
have Vince be the voice of reasonultimately and just be basically play the baby

(13:20):
face to counter these two, thenthey could if they wanted to bring in
Stephanie and Shank to say that theyhave equal share in the company. You
know. I mean, I don'tknow that Rom's are in Linda and Shane.
I don't know that anyone wants tosee Linda back on television. Shane.
I think people would be happy tosee But I mean, it's just
it's Vince. He just like Isaid, like I started with, way,

(13:41):
I mean, it's just kind ofout of sight, out of mind.
I don't think too many people arethinking about him. Yeah, I
agree. Well, if fans rememberRob van Dam, I think they would
remember Shane. But yeah, yeah, I mean it's not like they don't.
And I'm not thinking of saying that, but they But I don't know
that there's this this great affinity.I guess there'd be a bit of a
pop, but I don't think aresitting around going, yeah, Shane's the
answer. I think they kind of, like you said, out of out

(14:03):
of side, out of mind withhim. I think they the feeling is
he moved on. They didn't makea really big deal out of out of
him, and they haven't dropped hisname, which is if he's coming back,
it's smart that they haven't dropped hisname, you know, if it's
not like Steph. You know,it's just kind of as an innocent aside
telling Triple H, you know,you're much better running the company than my
brother would have entered, you knowwhatever. I mean, it's like they
haven't even dropped those hints. Soshe's that tells me he's not because they

(14:26):
can't help them. They get foreshadowingas much as they do. Yes,
yeah, all right, Well let'sgo to the phone lines and h let
the callers kind of steer the showfrom here. We also have email if
you want to email us a questionlive during the show. PW Torch Livecast
at gmail dot com is where youshould email your question or topical logging and
check the email to see if anyone'ssent in emails in the last couple of

(14:48):
minutes. Also at the beginning ofthe show and phone phone number is six
four six seven two one nine eighttwo eight. That is six four six
seven two one nine eight two eight. Tomorrow Pet McNeil will be hosting the
PW Torch Live cast and his Wednesdayinterview will be Mouth to the South Jimmy
Hart. I think that's the firsttime appearance on the Wednesday live cast.

(15:09):
He was on with Bruce Mitchell andme a year a year and a half
ago. Roughly, we've been doingthe interview Friday now for two years,
and when I started it, Idid not I didn't anticipate that I'd be
able to come up with a liveinterview every week for two years. I
think there was one week where weput up a taped interview of Jeff Hardy,
but otherwise I think we've had alive interview every single Friday for two

(15:33):
years. So that's pretty amazing.And past done the same thing with mostly
interviews in some all star panel roundtablediscussions. And tomorrow Jimmy Hart on with
Pat mconteel and Friday. My guestyet to be announced, but you can
follow us on Twitter at PW TorchLive Cast. That is usually where we
make our first announcement on two nonVIP members. Usually I announced the guests

(15:54):
on the live cast on the wayKeller Hotline, which I publish every day
for VIP Verse first, but PoleTorch Livecast I try to give the scoop
on that Twitter feed, so feelfree to follow us there, and you
can follow the main brand at PWTorch that's updated the most, and you
can follow me talk about a bunchof random things, including wrestling at the
Wade Keller. And while we're givingTwitter addresses out, Jason, you want

(16:17):
to give out yours absolutely at ProWrestling Net. Now. Is there a
Jason Powell on Twitter? And ishe cool or is he give kind of
give you a bad name? JasonPowell? I have no idea it maybe
the bodybuilder. I just hope thatpeople see him and think, Wow,
that Powell's Jack. But I'm not. I don't know if he has it.
I guess I've never bothered to look. Well, I will read you.

(16:37):
I'm sure Jason. This Jason Powellloves this invasion of his privacy.
But it's not really privacy. It'sa public account, his main his top
post right now. Jason of Twitterdot com flush Jason Paul, which is
not you. I just want toclear this up, He goes, this
is huge news for churches. Religiousorganizations are now eligible for Microsoft donations at
tech soup. So there you go. How do you know that's not me?
That sounds like something I would Uhno, it doesn't follow me.

(17:02):
Some of your tweet and there's awell, I don't know. I mean,
the guy's got a kind of lookslike you. If I close both
eyes and look away from the computer. Oh now I'm afraid to look.
He's got nothing on you. Wow. Invite you to email the show with
feedback or questions or comments. Thatemail address is Wade Keller Podcast at pewtorch
dot com. That's Wade Keller Podcastat pwtorch dot com. Also welcome your

(17:26):
feedback on Twitter. You can followus on Twitter at pw torch and follow
me at the Wade Keller. That'sat PW Torch and at the Wade Keller.
All right, Well, anyway,with that one out of the way,
let's uh chat from seven poto thatLet's go to the phone banks and

(17:48):
we'll begin there throwing up fast here, let's go to first area code six
one four and then after that fiveeight oh six one four. Thanks for
holding. Please state your name andwhere you are from. Hey, how
you guys on? His? Jamalfrom Columbus, Ohio. Hey, Jamal
from Columbus, Ohio. What haveyou got pro dating me? All right?
A couple of things to react to, Uh bray Wyatt up? Ziggler

(18:10):
down? What's up with Ziggler?Another thing, it's I think it's ironic
that uh uh Booker T, whoused to call people's suckers, is now
playing the sucker. So that's prettyinteresting at uh. And then the question
is you know way you mentioned thatuh the U I guess you could say

(18:33):
that there's there hasn't been any collateraldamage this week? Do you think the
damage has already been done? Justbecause it's hard to even It's like,
whoever, when how can you reallybe that interested? With H? Daniel
Bryant having a fight for himself andno one's sticking up for him, and
then what somebody finally does, it'salmost like, well, where have you

(18:55):
been? Yeah? And then soyou can react to though, sure,
well yeah, I mean I thinka lot of damage has been done.
I mean, a big show lastnight didn't seem to get a pop from
a crowd that was very into DanielBryant. I mean Daniel Brand's toeughl on
Brian, Daniel Brand's over. He'sscrappy and fighting for his life out there
with nobody helping him. But abig show didn't get much of a pop.
Goldust got a huge pop. Imean that different people on that show

(19:18):
got big pops. Not like itwas a dead crowd at SmackDown last Tuesday.
Jason, you and I were bothat that taping. Big show got
a tepid reaction, some polite applause, but mostly I just think people kind
of felt bad for him or weren'tsure how to react. And I think
people are kind of waiting for abig show to turn and if he doesn't,
I think they just kind of lookat him as the last kind of
friend you would want. Somebody who'stough enough to defend you, but puts

(19:41):
his job ahead of ahead of youtaking and ass kicking. He's a seven
foot giant blubbering on television. Yeah, you know. I mean, and
we've seen it before, and we'veseen show turn face turn he'll I mean,
he just goes back and forth allthe time. It's it's too bad.
I mean, I liked the ideaof Big Show and Mark Henry challenging
for the tag titles. And Idon't know if these plans were you know,

(20:03):
if that everything got derailed because ofMark Henry's injury, and or if
they had already come up with thisand that was just going to be kind
of a side thing show. Imean, show cries very well on Command.
I just don't think that show shouldbe crying on command. It's just
imagine if if John Cena could juggleand they made him juggle all the time.
I mean, that wouldn't help hischaracters. Just because somebody has a

(20:23):
skill that not everybody has doesn't meanyou just put him on TV and have
him do it. That's true.Yeah, So I mean it's just yeah,
I don't know. Yeah, BigShows damage as far as additional collateral
damage. I thought that it wasa little out last night that Big Show
was not allowed to touch the shield, but he also chose not to touch
Randy Orton, right, and thatBig Show wasn't allowed to touch the shield.

(20:45):
But there's a whole locker room fullthe wrestlers backstage, who I don't
remember being given orders this week notto cross any line or stay on you
know, stay single file in inin you know, in the in the
kids area, in the back,you know. So yeah, that question
too. I think this was thiswhole thing might have been a result of
Trip thinking a little too hard.You know, why why don't wrestlers run
in more often, you know,to save guys when they're getting beat down,

(21:06):
Because that used to be the thing. I mean all you know,
growing up Jason watching wrestling, itwas just a staple of wrestling. Every
few weeks, a bunch of acouple heels, two three four heels would
beat up one or two baby facesand then all of a sudden, you
know, the jobbers. The Jobbersalways had a locker room closer to the
entrance. We know that because theywere always the first ones to the ring,
and then about twenty seconds later,the stars would run out. The
mid level stars, they'd run outand they'd get beat up by the heels,

(21:29):
and finally one of the top starswould run out and clean house and
the crowd going nuts. It allmade sense as long as you prescribe two
jobbers get the locker room closest tothe entrance, and that would happen all
the time. I think trip Leachis being old school. Here's like,
well, why don't know the wrestlersrun to the ring. Let's solve that
by having me be a juror cantell everyone if you cross this fline,
you're fire. But he didn't thinkany further than that, and so I
think what we got was Tripleach tryingto solve one problem and in the process

(21:52):
he created a much bigger problem,which is everybody looks like sellouts. I
thought Dolph Sigler and I don't thinkthey did more damage to last night in
terms of the types of damage theydid the last two weeks. But Jason,
he did a job to bray Wyatt, as Jamal brought up, and
there wasn't a lot of Now wedidn't get the full the full ring entrance,
but I just don't sense that Fansomlooking at Dedl Szigla the same way,
or Kobe Kingston the same way,just like Big Show or even Rob

(22:15):
Van Dam you know, I mean, they're they're wrestlers who who didn't stand
up for what was right and cowardto the boss. Every single wrestler,
at the exception of Davin Bryant,hasn't stood up for anything. It's Show
wants to, but he's choosing notto. It's hard to get behind that.
Dolf Ziegler. They seemed for awhile there, it seemed like they
were really he was going to besomeone that when it came time for the

(22:37):
baby Faces to get the revenge,he was going to benefit from it.
Boy. I mean, it lookedlike they were setting up something with he
and Dean Ambrose for for Night ofChampions and again maybe that'll be announced on
Friday. But to just go fromthat to losing to bray Wyatt Clean,
I mean, I like bray Wyatt. I'm happy they're pushing him, but
there's a lot of people that couldhave done that same thing and say Clean.

(23:00):
But all I mean there was oldthere was some interference to distract off
a couple of times, so theygave him that. But it still was
a pinfall loss, and it didyou know it's one guy's one guy's higher
than the other on the total poll. Right now, I mean that kind
of finish doesn't happen even with aheel cheating a little bit with outside distraction,
just a little bit, you know, that does not That does not

(23:21):
bode well for Dolph's current standing.And by the way, there isn't I
have not heard, and I don'tI think I would have heard if there
was a definitive reason Delf's not gettinga push right now. I just this
is why leading into WrestleMania, Ikept saying the people Dolf should be a
heel for another year, year anda half. I know you love him,
I know you want to cheer him, but you can tell vinc Mann
and company were not ready to getbehind him, and you want to save

(23:42):
his baby face turn for when managementwas ready to get behind him, because
now that was wasted. Now theyweren't excited about him as a baby face.
They turned him. They did thedevil turn with del Rio, and
they lost interest in him. Andthere could have been something else along the
way that happened behind the scenes thatthat soured them on him, But you
don't want to do a turn justbecause the crud's cheering for you. I

(24:03):
really wish he would have he wasstuck it out like Seawn Michaels did and
stayed hell for a lot longer beforeturning face. And I think he'd be
in a better place than he istoday. Oh. I agree. It
seemed like that turn, the doubleturn, really helped del Rio and they
didn't really have anything else in mindfor Dolf other than well he's gonna feud
with del Rio, but he's notgoing to take the title back, so

(24:25):
then what? And I don't thinkI just don't think they got to that
part. Yeah, all right,Booker. Maybe a little collateral damage with
him telling Big Show, Yeah,way to go, Big Show. We
did not stand up for your friendsand put your job first. You've got
to think about your your daughter.It's like wrestling fans don't tune in to
see grown men think about putting theirdaughter ahead of their friends when one of
their friends is getting beaten down orthey're being ordered to punch one of their

(24:45):
friends with his hand held behind hisback. That's not the wrestling audience.
If you want to go on LifetimeNetwork and an appeal to two women,
who are you know, watching themade for cable movies about a woman in
distress. Maybe she would lie thata man put his daughter ahead of of
of not punching his friend in theface. But this is www Raw and

(25:07):
book Or t endorsing it. Ithink actually has some collateral damage to book
or t well, only if youbelieve that Booker. People cared about Booker
before. I mean, this isa guy who's gone. You never really
know from listening to his commentary backin the day or even when he's general
manager. It's like you never quitget a sense for it. Is this
guy a healer? Is he ababy face? It's I think he's supposed

(25:27):
to be a baby face, buthe says things that can flick with that.
Yeah, that's true. All right, Tod Jamal, good topics.
Thanks for the question. Let's goto five eight oh next and then eight
one, four and nine seventy threeon deck five eight oh. Please state
your name and where you're from.Chris from Oklahoma? Hey, Chris,
what do you got for us?I agree with the last caller about everything

(25:48):
let's said basically, but the onequestion I have, Okay, w TB
promoted is for us, not forall, and it seems to me it
kind of gave it away the firstsay and that was it. And to
me that was just not the company, it's the police. But it was
bad for business to me, Ithink they should they kept him around for
a little longer, maybe having interferein the main event or something like that,

(26:14):
because this to having there from onesegment, this could sure I was
that it. Yeah, Jason,what do you think of the youth of
Edge last night? I'm sorry theuse of who Edge? You know,
I'd like that segment a lot.I thought the back and forth with him
having you know, he has thefreedom to say what he wants because he's

(26:36):
not you know, he doesn't haveto worry about the company, So I
like that they kind of, youknow, he was set up to interview
Ordon, his old Tag partner,and kind of turned things around and brought
out Daniel Bryan instead. I mean, yeah, I wish you would have
been out there a little bit more. I just don't know how much else
you could have really done with him. He's gonna be on SmackDown, which
is really odd when you think aboutit. When they escorted him out of

(26:57):
the building, and then a shorttime later an ad for Edge appearing on
SmackDown this week. Yeah, Imean, I guess. I guess their
argument would be, you know,we got what was good for business out
of him. They you know,Triple H made it sound like, you
know that they got paid for someproduct placement essentially to plug his show.
What's a show called, by theway, Haven Haven, that's it.
Yeah, it sounds like a showI won't watch. I have no idea

(27:18):
if it's good or not. Butand uh, I don't know what it
is about a title of a showlike Caven that would make me think I
wouldn't want to watch it. Butit's it's I mean, I like sci
fi and not the network just scifi in general. But I haven't given
it a chance I had again,believe it or not, it's a sci
fi show that arizone sci fi.Yes, where was I before I went
off on on? So I haveno idea but yeah so so oh yeah

(27:41):
that the rationale I guess from TripleHim to defend him, which of course
I'm known for doing around here.It's that, you know, he's saying,
Edge, we got what you need, what we needed out of you.
Thanks for helping us boost ratings,and you know we got your plug
in. Now get out of hereuntil you, you know, tomorrow,
do another plug. I guess that'sokay because it's not like Edge did anything
like horrible we're triplations, like Ihate you, get out of here,

(28:03):
I never want to see you again. It was more like we're done with
you for today, which it fitstriplations character being the guy who's all about
you know, quote business and justjust you know, uses people up and
spits him out. Did he getyou your number from Jody Hamilton and give
you a call? Yes? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, very
good, very good. All right, let's see. I guess it was

(28:27):
all from Chris. Chris. Iwas fine with how they used I mean
I was, yeah, I'm withyou, Jason in terms of came out
there, he did his thing.I didn't. I mean, I didn't
like for Blache's saying you never doa dime because I don't think that that
references to who drew ratings or whodrew money, ever made a dime.
I've never seen it being good forbusiness. Uh yeah, yeah, that's

(28:49):
what it comes across as. AndI know that you know that there's this
this, and I can't wait forit to be wiped out, But there's
still this attitude behind the scenes.Oh, we got to talk to the
internet fans. We don't want andsoult their intelligence. We got to talk
their language. We gotta make itwink winks seem like we're not treating them
like marks. But really, whenthey break from the narrative of pro wrestling
being about people winning matches and winningtitles and instead it's do you draw?

(29:12):
Do you sell merchandise? Do youdraw ratings? Do you draw people to
the building. Once you interject thatinto it, the whole narrative just collapses.
I mean, the whole the wholething just collapses into itself. I
mean, I use the analogy allthe time. But if you're watching a
show about good guys and bad guysand they start talking not about in there's
cops and then there's you know,criminals, and instead of talking about you

(29:33):
know, the cop at at thepolice station who has a great arrest record,
they start talking about how the copat the police station doesn't draw the
female demographics like the star who leftfor the movies last year, And so
now the ratings are down. Soyou know, this is like the sergeant
or the lieutenant like evaluating this thisnew rookie cop. You know, you're
not drawing the ratings like the previousactor did in your spot, So we're

(29:53):
gonna have to let you go.It's like that would just be seriously the
most ludicrous, ridiculous thing ever.But Triple H fancies and self a TV
show, and we're just like anyother TV show out there, even though
they're not. Even though we useour real names and reference real history all
the time and the whole you know, the Crockett references and the Rhodes family
references. You can't talk about thehistory of the industry and things that we're
always off camera behind the scenes.But then call anybody a stupid mark for

(30:17):
saying, gee, maybe it's okayfor people to get a little confused between
stephan mcmahn how to be a starrally and Stephanie McMahon being a complete jerk
and bully on the air. Imean, it's just they want they wanted
so many different ways at the sametime, and going out there and saying
Edge, you never drew a dime, which by the way, isn't true.
He wasn't the top level guy,but they relied on him and leaned
on him, and he did wellas the lead guy in SmackDown for many
years, and he threw against JohnCena and helped bring Sena up to another

(30:41):
level. But once they start interjectingyou weren't good for business, I just
I just roamize at the stupidity ofit. I just if we can just
and Jim Cornette Jason did that inTNA. You know, it's like some
of the smartest people in wrestling.A Triple H is really smart. I'm
holding onto that, by the way, despite the last month. He's really
smart, and I think the wrestlingindustry is in good hands when he's not

(31:03):
featuring himself on television. And I'mnot I don't love everything about him.
I think he's got a size fetishand I think he, uh it can
be a judgmental prick sometimes behind thescenes, not just on camera. And
obviously this whole thing about you weren'tgood for business, I can do without,
for sure, But I think overall, I mean, those are three,
you know, two or three prettybig flaws. But in the aggregate,

(31:26):
I think he's he's a good guy. He's a smart guy. He
knows the history, and I'm notscared of him, you know, taking
the reins of the industry, evenif I don't agree with everything he does.
But boy, I'd like them todrop that aspect of things. Hey,
took a half hour for me toget my first rant in Feel you
feel better? Or now I do? I like little caffeinata right now?
But that that felt good to getthat out. Good. It's good,

(31:47):
all right, So let's go backto the phone calls. Lots of people
lining up because they got excited becausewe went to the calls early, and
then I rant for five minutes aboutwhat's good for business? All right?
Eight one four? You are upnow, Please state your name and where
you're from. Carbon. Hey,Ryan, what do you got for us?
Question about Ricordi Rodriguin. Yeah,you think he's gonna turn heal on
r VD at pay review? No, what do you think, Jason?

(32:09):
I'm hopefully does it is quick asit would be. There's just I don't
see anything there. VP sale Alert. We're running a sale going into all
in and all out as we concludethe summer, and you can get nine
dollars off any v IP subscription,which brings a one month subscription down to
just ninety nine cents. Just goto Pwtorch dot com slash Go vi ip.

(32:34):
Choose a traditional VP membership, sodon't do a Patreon membership because a
coupon code does not work on Patreon. And you have a choice between three
coupon codes. If you think MGFis going to come out of all In
as a heel, use coupon codeMJF. If you think Adam Cole is
going to come out of the allin event as a heel, choose coupon
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friends coming out of all In,then use coupon code Friends. So the

(32:59):
choice is our MJAFF Friends or Coal, And when you enter that coupon code,
it'll activate nine dollars off one month, three month, or one year
subscription. Again it's a grand totalof nine dollars off, so it'll bring
a year subscription down to ninety dollarsor a one months up down to ninety
nine cents. Pwtorch dot com slashGo VIP that will include are All In

(33:22):
post event VIP exclusive roundtable on Sunday. It'll include the all out Post Event
roundtable a week from this weekend,and you can also catch up on our
VP exclusive Summer Slim round Table.Plus you get all our free shows with
the ads and plux removed and aton of other content. And that also
includes my forty minute Keller Conversation VAPexclusive with Sean Waltman this week talking about

(33:44):
Terry Funk, who he wrestled tenyears ago, by the way, at
an indie show and also was onshows with him early in his career and
grew up a fan of his.So again, that's Pwtorch dot Com slash
go VIP and then enter coupon codeMJFF. If you think he's turning heel,
Cole, if you think he's turnedheel, or friends, if you
think they stay friends, they surehaven't. I think there's possibilities to do

(34:13):
fun things Jason, but they haven'tdone anything yet. I mean, if
you're gonna pair those two together,might not have some fun with it with
some you know, some vignettes orshow the dynamic that's between them. I
mean, they're they're just yeah,there's they haven't done anything yet to make
you think that that they've got alot of ideas for those two together,
but I just I would I'm justagainst rapid fire turns like that, But
I guess if the feeling was Ricardowas getting cheered too much that having him

(34:37):
turned baby face and then having himturn heel on RVD, maybe they think
that's a way to just get peopleto stop cheering for the guy. Yeah,
I'm not sure why they pulled theplug on that. I don't know
if we wish, like meant tobe punishment for Ricardo who forgetting the wellness
suspension, if they have some Imean, I just don't see any chemistry
with Rob van Dam and Ricardo thatthat announcement last night, his Numero Uno

(34:59):
Amigo just nauseating. I like theidea of Ricardo's being an actual heel.
We we only saw it for afew weeks. I know he was with
del Rio all that time, buthe never really played a heel character until
this most recent turn. I thinkhe could be a good heel. I
do too, but I also thinkI mean, I'm not saying I'd love
it, but I think there's there'spotential. You know, like people right

(35:21):
away we're talking about RVD and Ricardokind of Cheach and Chong. I mean,
they can kind of play up aninteresting comical dynamic between the two.
I don't think it's the best wayto make a ton of money with Rob
van Dam, but unless he's goingover on Sunday and becoming world champ.
And I'm by the way, theSmackDown so called SmackDown House show line up
Jason over the weekend, and theydid not. By the way, now
I'm digressing twice. This is caffeineattendant ratings down, attendance down, metal

(35:46):
lands with a week attendance target centerwith week attendants. I mean, Toronto
was great, but and then theSmackDown ratings down to the lowest point the
benn in in a while, alot of just little signs that you know,
it's not a hot product right nowin this angle, this Blache power
trip might not be working. Sothat's one digression. But the Rob van
Dam is not being pushed as ahuge mega star on the Virgin winning the

(36:09):
world title. You don't get thesense of managements behind him. But looking
at the SmackDown how show line ups, I just wonder if it isn't that.
I mean, I know it's alwaysin. You know, the money's
in the chase. But I wonderif they need that second baby face with
John Cena out right now, theyneed a baby face who seems to have
some momentum that fans like and seeas a as a star being in the

(36:29):
main event and getting a clean win. I mean, I just I don't
know what that that secondary house showwe're SmackDown on how show lineup right now,
Jason, if they have the depthnecessary to draw and I just think
at least you don't have to believeit behind this, believe in Rob van
Dam behind the scenes, but justfake it on the air that you really
think he's you know that he's hitthe peak of his career and he's still
in his prime and it's gonna behard to beat him and have Rob van

(36:51):
Dam defending against against ad R.Oh yeah, yeah, No. They
should definitely be aggressive with Rob vanDam still. I mean, they came
out of the gate's wrong with himand it now that he's challenging for that
title, they really should. Imean, that's part of the reason I
hope that Ricardo does turn is thatI think that sets up the obvious rematch,
the need for a rematch and maybeit goes all the way to Helen

(37:14):
a cell. I just don't knowwhat else you go with right now.
As far as like a tendance beingdown, really, I mean, go
pay to see one guy who wasnot afraid to stand up for himself regardless
of the consequences, and then there'severyone else that just stands there and takes
it. The guys that are thetwo people who are positioned really as the

(37:36):
top heels aren't at the house shows. Triple H and in some ways Stephanie.
I mean, Randy Orton's there,but I don't even think they put
enough real legit heat on Orton.It's just kind of dislike him because he
wont in a cowardly fashion. Ithought he was pretty mean, you know,
just kind of mean and nasty onlast night's show. Yeah, last
night was an improvement, absolutely.Yeah. As opposed to standing behind Triple

(37:57):
Ate and shining the belt for him, I mean he seemed like Triple AGA's
belt shiner. And the guy whothe surrogate champion who rests who defended the
title because Triple H hand picked themas a face of the company. I
mean, it's just there's so manythings wrong with it with the last few
weeks. And again I think theycorrected course somewhat yesterday and made some you
know, they can only do somuch, you know, leading into the
pay per view. I just hopeMonday there's a reset button and we see

(38:19):
some changes. My guess is ittheir Their whole attitude right now is wait
for it. Just wait for thatwhen when the baby Face just due strike
back, it's gonna be big andeveryone's going to be more over And I
mean, I hope they're right.Wait, I just say worried they're doing
so much damage right now that they'renot going to get that effect. That's
the thing. I mean, thisis not the worst angle ever done in
that there's nothing that can read,there's nothing that can come from it that's

(38:42):
redeem it there. I mean,this follows a traditional formula. Heels get
heat, a baby Face eventually makesa comeback. The critics of this angle,
and I'm one of them for sure, are not saying this angle is
horrible and worthless and there's no payoffand they won't even pop a bye rate
from it. The argument is morenuanced than that. It is that there
are other ways to accomplished this withouthaving the newly hot middle of his prime.

(39:04):
Randy Orton turned heel and immediately playa subservient background role to Triple H.
Well, Daniel Bryan peaked as ababy face when he pinned John Cena.
By the way, they talk aboutthat as often as they mentioned Chris
ben Wat. I mean, it'slike, what happened to that win by
Daniel Bryan? He's don't shouldn't theybe mentioning like, shouldn't Daniel Bryan mentioned
that when they're when they're disparaging him, shouldn't Nana Brann go, Hey,
I just pinned John Cena and winthe title clean in a big match of

(39:27):
summer slim, and I'd still bechampion if it weren't for this, that
and the other thing. They won'teven talk about that, but there,
and this is one I wrote inmy long cover story that really went in
depth on on my point of viewon this in the Progressing Torch newsletter last
week. This was an angle thatdidn't need help from Triple H. And
so Daniel Brann against Randy Orton wouldhave worked if those two were the centerpiece

(39:47):
of this, and then you wouldn'thave the collateral damage of Big Show looking
weak and Cody Roads looking weak andthat kind of thing. So so that's
my point is there's there's they couldhave gotten more out of Orton and Bryan
without Triple H and Stephanie, andthen they wouldn't have done all the damage
that they've done along the way toBig Show. And Cody Rhodes and Delphiegler

(40:08):
and Kobe Kingston and Mark Henry andeverybody else are just standing around during this.
So it's not you know, peopleare like, like you said,
Jason, and you know, peopleare saying to us, well, just
wait, this will have a payoff. It's like who said it won't.
Of course it will, but thedamage along the way was not only unnecessary,
but it might be greater than thegood that we see in the end.
Yeah, the guys I don't wantto see in the house shows right

(40:28):
now with the guys that stand upto him, and that's the old dust
Edge and Daniel Bryan and you cansee one of the three yep, yep
go to the good last night.I wish they'd bring him back full time.
I really do know. I youknow, I whether it's part of
the Rhodes family standing up to theMcMahons or not. I just and I've
said this before, it's now thathe's clean and he looks like he's in

(40:50):
the best shape he's been in since, like his early w w F days.
If not better, I don't care. I know they're in a youth
movement, but they're still room forveterans, and I think that's a guy
that are still with that gimmick nowthat they've had time to people have had
a break from the shilliness of it. I think if you brought it back
with a little bit of an edge, baby Face or heel, I really
think a good work. I dotoo, and I think it should be

(41:12):
I think it should be Babyface,just because they really built him up last
night. Sure, as the guyfighting for his family pride, I'd like
to see that, all right.If you're just joining us, this is
Wade Keller of Pro Wrestling Torch pwtorchdot com. I'm joined by Jason Powell
of Pro Wrestling dot Net. Weare usually together on Tuesdays. Last two
weeks, due to scheduling conflicts,we weren't, but we are back this

(41:32):
week. Jason, This good timefor you to plug your website and also
your membership. You mentioned dot netWeekly earlier that is one of the must
listen audio shows each week with youand Chris Shore discussing the big stories of
the week and also dropping in somesome good insider information that adds perspective to
things. Go ahead and get yourplugs in. Yeah, let me get

(41:53):
let me do much rights for business, Jason, I will do that.
Let me direct you, guys,choose some free audio to start with.
Chris Shore did about a forty fiveminute review of Www. Raw last night.
I took the evening off and enjoyedsome football, ended up being finished
with Raw at the same time.It was over because the first game wasn't
so good, but I still hada good time. But Chris's audio is

(42:13):
available, as is the interview Iconducted earlier today with Michael Kingston of Headlock.
He's the creator of the Headlocked comic. He has a Kickstarter program going.
Wait. I think you in particularneed to listen to the closing minutes
of that. He is a bigbreaking bad fan and he had a theory
as where this thing is going,and it stemmed from some of the message

(42:37):
boards that he reads and things.It made a lot of sense to me,
and so if you're a breaking badfan, check it out for that.
But certainly the Headlocked comic, he'sas Jerry Lawler involved and Rob Van
Damn, mister Anderson, so manypeople from w w E and TNA.
Those are available at blog talk radiodot com, slash, pro Wrestling dot
net, spellout dot net for that, and so when we're done here,

(43:00):
check those out on also on ProWrestling dot Today dot net Today my WWE
Raw hit list where I go justbreak down what worked, what didn't work
last night, and there's before thisshow is over, I'll have a recap
of an interview that Dolf Ziegler didwhere he's suddenly praising the Triple H and

(43:21):
Stephanie McMahon storyline, the usage ofthe McMahons right now, So look for
that at Pro Wrestling dot Net.Man a smart man, Yeah, I
think he's after some of those recentradio interviews, he probably figured if he
needs to tone it down a littlebit. So it's interesting to see the
change there. On the members sideof things, you mentioned the dot net
weekly audio show. This week forsure night will be previewing the WWE Knight

(43:44):
of Champions pay per view and analyzingall the news of the week. That
show is available exclusively to the dotnet members. On the ad free version
of pro wrestling dot Net. Thereis a form with a great group of
people you can correspond with usually sixseven hours of new audio content and each
week exclusively forward the dot net membersif you were interested in membership rates start

(44:04):
as low as five dollars and fiftycents a month if you take the annual
option. If you just want totry it out for months, see if
it's for you, that's great too, seven dollars and fifty cents. You
can find all the membership sign upinformation right there on the main page at
pro wrestling dot net I mentioned earlier, follow me on Twitter at pro wrestling
Net, leave the dot out ofthat one, and again blog talk radio
dot com slash pro wrestling dot net. Sounds good, and I will

(44:29):
say that we have a request forthis and we're going to keep this a
spoiler free zone until the end upbreaking bad in terms of you know,
giving warnings if we do anything andprefer body yeah, yeah, you know
obviously not talking about it. SoI just want callers to know that too.
Don't call up and go I can'tbelieve that blank blank did blank blank
come. You know, just let'sdon't blindside us with that, or we'll
have to edit it out. AndI even gave it warning to people before

(44:51):
Michael and I got into that.At the very end of the interview.
We talked about a lot of stuff, and I knew there'd be there's some
people that are behind on the showand got to respect them too, absolutely,
but holy crap. Oh yeah,wow, good show. Folks,
go just whatever. If you've gota wedding this weekend, like just skip
it and catch up on Breaking Bad. I figured out I'm going to be
in Las Vegas when the finale ers. I'm just gonna have to like go

(45:14):
up to my room and watch anhour and Breaking Bad. There's no way
I'm going to avoid spoilers for threedays. That. Yeah, there should
be a like a big party inVegas with a big screen like theater that
is showing that. If there is, we'll be there. Yeah. Absolutely,
All right, let's go back tothe phone line. Six four six
seven two one nine eight two eightis our number. That's six four six

(45:37):
seven two one nine eight two eight. We are eight. You can find
us at pw torchlivecast dot com.That is where we you can find our
on demand episodes, and that isalso where you can listen to us live.
We are here five days a weekand sometimes six. This week this
coming week six because Sunday we'll havea show thirty minutes after the end of
Night of Champions, and we arehere money through Friday. Otherwise, Bruce

(46:00):
Mitchell and Travis Bryant host on Mondaysin the hour leading up to RAW,
so you can warm up for RAWby listening live to the livecast. And
then Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday,and Friday we are on at five thirty
Eastern live, taking your phone callsfor an hour or so, and then
after that we usually do a VPexclusive after show and you can check out
full details. But if you wantto subscribe to the show on iTunes or

(46:22):
on the PO podcast, stapp,Downcast, stapp beyond Pod, Stitcher,
all those options on your phone oryour computer, place to go to get
the feed is pwtorch livecast dot comthat has everything you need to follow the
show on Twitter and Facebook and subscribeto our RSS feed. Let's go next
to on nine seven three and thenon Deck two O two actually no,

(46:44):
eight one four believe it's a VIPmember, so he moves to the front
of the line. And then afterthat nine seven three and two O two
eight one four. Oh, pleasestate your name and where you're from.
This is what you're calling from setsNurst. Hey, Richard, thanks for
calling. What have you got forus? There? Are get a couple
of things. One, did youguys make of the commentary last night during
the deepest match? Also, doyou think this is thinking a subtle heel

(47:06):
turn? Because I noticed the spatiallast night seemed like he was kind of
turning on the crowd. And also, wait, can I ask you something
I've been wanting to ask you fora while now. But is there any
solong with you and Dave Melts there? It seems like Dave doesn't think favorably
of you if you're looking with showsand it's like you two really don't interact
like Bruce doesn't with Dave. Didsomething happen or no? But it seemed

(47:28):
like you're what you a deep rootedhatred? No? And uh, Richard
actually didn't know he what's your exampleof? And things up? The negative
about me? Well, maybe notso much negative, but it seems like
there were things he wanted to saybut he kind of held back on it.
Seems like he never talked about youfavorably. So I don't know if
something happened or Oh no, no, not not at all. I mean

(47:51):
he I was just last last Ithink Wednesday on Twitter, I was on
getting into a discussion on the TripleAh Power Trip storyline and shown Waltman ex
Pocket chimed in and some readers thatchimed in, and then Dave Melzer jumped
in, and and uh, justit took you know, kind of backed
up or made a comments that we'rebacking up my argument. No, Dave
and are fine, you know.I mean he does he does the wrestling

(48:12):
observer and I do a torch andwe both stay busy. I mean he
and I never had a falling out. And uh, I mean back in
the late eighties and early nineties,we probably talked eight hours a week on
the phone. I mean back youknow, before there was email and all,
you know, all this other stuffkeep us occupied. We were the
two people covering wrestling full time whoshared a real, real similar philosophy on

(48:34):
how to cover it. We havedifferent strengths and weaknesses. Dave is just
amazing and uh, just absolutely amazingin certain ways, and he and I
have different strengths and different personalities,but we definitely look at wrestling coverage philosophically
in a way that shares a lotmore in common than it doesn't. So
no, no, no heat thatI know of. And if he doesn't
go out of his way to saynice things about me, I don't wouldn't

(48:55):
take that. I wouldn't read intoit too much because he's probably not with
everything going on, not that notjust not taking time to talk about me
doesn't really mean the absence of sayingthose things about me is not necessarily a
sign of deep seated hatred. AsJason Paul, the Rumormonger, the Troublemaker
said, all I can say isthank goodness he didn't ask about the massive
heat between James called Will and DaveMelcher. Yeah, that would be hilarious.

(49:19):
No, No, I think actuallyif you listen to Bruce Mitchell,
who was a guest on Dave Melzer'saudio show last week, I think you
would you'd probably get a different senseof where Dave's I don't want never you.
I don't think you would get asense if there's any any heat with
the Torch and Bruce's good friends withboth Dave and me and talks to both
of us more often, certainly waymore often than than we talked than I

(49:40):
talked to Dave. So in twentytwelve, NXT transitioned into the developmental system
and ultimately the brand you see today. On the Torch VIP podcast NXT Eight
Years Back, we'll be taking aweekly look at this page in NXT's early
hit story. Join Kelly Wells andme Tom Stout from PWT Talks NXT every

(50:05):
Saturday as we go eight years backto the day to track NXT's rising talents
and why they did or didn't workout Exclusively for PW Torch VIP members anyway,
Richard, but he brought up twoother points. Let's get some more
interesting stuff than that. Uh theMiss is he turning hill? I just
think Jason Miss was reacting to thecrowd not liking him. I don't know

(50:30):
that it was a sign of aHiltern, although he didn't he. I
think he was maybe self conscious ofhis facial expressions and decided not to make
some of those like weird facial expressionslike he just, you know, was
choking on a bug who was makingI'm sorry I missed that Miss. Oh.
He thought maybe Miss was turning onthe crowd. I know, I
don't think. I mean, theywent out of their way to show all
these little kids last night which Misswas coming out. I noticed that that

(50:52):
was new. So I think they'retrying to make it seem like Miss is
like the hero to kids. AndI don't know, some other kids actually
looked excited to see. It.Was one kid in particular who was like,
oh, he was running the MissT shirt, jumping up and down.
I've never seen anyone who were excitedfor any wrestler than that kid was
for Miss. So I've never seenanyone in years where Miss T shirt.
I know, I kind of wish, well, I don't know. I

(51:14):
don't spend any time thinking about whatthey should do with Miss these days,
but I guess this is the waythey're trying to establish him as the hero
to kids. Maybe kids just can'tbut they don't see all the flaws with
Miss that the adults do. Yep, yep, I know, all right,
I'm looking for Oh. He alsotalked about the Diva's commentary last night.

(51:36):
Any thoughts on that. Oh,it's just you know, kind of
more of the same. The matchitself was odd and all of a sudden,
everyone who's on Total Divas gets along, which even goes against what we
see on Total Divas sometimes. Imean, they that's just so stupid.
Oh yeah, it's throw on aTV show together. Let's team him with
no backstory to the two thirds ofthe audience of Raw that has never watched
Total Divas. And and it's justit made no sense. It made no

(51:58):
sense. I guess, you know, I mean, we should be used
to this. They don't turn anyoneeffectively anymore, so I guess this was
Breebella's maybe face turn. Maybe Idon't know it. That was disappointing,
But yeah, AJ was just kindof, you know, more of what
we saw in her CM punk pipemom at promos. I think they've dubbed
it. I don't think it wasthat that's wrong. It was a good

(52:21):
promo in all, but yeah,I mean there, I think the idea
that we're we're supposed to be lookingat this going wow. AJ has to
go in there depending or deepest championshipagainst three women who are united and don't
like her. I just didn't getto the part where they show why they're
why they're united, right, Yeah, I was. It's it's a weird
thing trying to have that show andthen it's sort of this parallel universe.

(52:42):
But if they're gonna start saying whathappens on that show matters on w WBTV,
they do need to expect. Theyknew they and I don't want them
to do this, but if theydo that, to be consistent, they
should introduce the notion that Johnson andDana Brown are dating the Bella's. I
mean, if you're gonna, ifyou're gonna have the storylines on that show
carry over to you should go allthe way with it. You can't just
pick and choose. I surpread thathasn't happened yet with the Daniel Bryan storyline

(53:06):
being what it is right now,and I wonder if I'll get to that.
Yeah, yeah, all right.Let's let's now go to nine seventy
three and two or two nine seventythree. First stop, please stay your
name and where you're from? Nineseven three, going once, going twice,
no sail. All right, let'sgo to two or two two two?
Thanks for hopefully stay your name andwhere you're from. The junior from

(53:30):
Washington, DC. Hey, Junior, what do you at first? Hey?
What's going all the way? Nottoo much? Man? Well,
first of all, I just wantto thank you man for it really uh
getting im mentally right to look atthat show. You know what I'm saying,
I'm not gonna last year before youkind of went off last week,
just don't have tripleated killing the showwith his angle and putting himself over at

(53:52):
the expense of the entire roster.I gotta I gotta be honest with you
that I was looking at the wholething entirely way more optimistic than I and
I really should as so last night, I mean it kind of as a
result, I guess that kind ofmade me down on it a lot more
than out then. But I gottathank you for that. But you know
what I'm saying, because you reallyenlightened. You really owe my eyes.

(54:13):
She's like, how they really carryingthings, you know, as a promotion
right now, and I think theyreally need to. I don't know they
any switch switch gears because it feelslike every time Daniel Bryant does one thing,
it's like the nine other things thatTrip Lakes did to get over it
just him and Stephed me in general, whatever they do to get over on
everybody else, like the Ruins,the whole show. To me, I

(54:36):
don't know, that's just my opinionabout it, you know, I don't
know. You couldn't want to hearwhat you had to say about that?
Well, what do you want toinform you? Well? What what's what's
your question? Because you made alot of comments just basically I'm sorry,
yeah, but I feel you onthat. All right, let's go Hey,
well I want to go ahead.I was gonna ask the question what

(54:59):
I did when? What do youhow do you think I know you said
in the past if you feel likethey should kind of make it so that
the outcomes that the matches or oror the outcome or the matches or the
winds that could really matter, Likewhat do you think they can do to
really start and incorporate that into theyproduct the way they do is now?

(55:21):
Okay? Yeah, absolutely, yeah. I just to me, I think
when a match happens, there shouldbe some hype ahead of time talking about
it and talking about the ramifications ofit and and give a little bit more
of a sports like analysis to it, just like we saw we see all
the time with USC NFL anything whenthere's a pregame show or commentators before before

(55:42):
the game, you know, say, if there's a match between two guys,
talk about where they are and whenit comes to title contention is are
they on a hot streak or ora losing streak or are they you know,
what are their aspirations? Have apromo, uh, you know a
little interview with them saying, youknow, hey, if I need I
need to build up some wins,I want to get to the US title
level. Again, give us someof that kind of sports like field that
the matches matter in that respect.And then when a match is over,

(56:02):
you know, more often interview theguy afterwards, had the announcers talk a
little bit about, Wow, thatloss is a setback for Dolf Siegler or
oh I bet that if they hadthis, if the champion committee will probably
take any consideration that bray Wyatt hadsome help a distraction. But still,
you know, Dolf should have beenif he was on his game. He
wants to let himself get distracted,you know, make it have that type
of sports like discussion. It addsto the show there's you know, it's

(56:25):
just it. Wrestling is a simulationof a of two guys fighting to get
titles and settle feuds, and itshould own that. It shouldn't run from
it. If you're if you're ashow about about a hospital, you want
it to look like a hospital,and you want doctors to dress like doctors,
and nurses will look like nurses,and you want medical equipment and hospital
rooms that look realistic, and youwant patients who look like they're sick and

(56:49):
in trouble. You make it asrealistic because you can, because it's a
show about hospitals and doctors and patients. Same with wrestling. Ww A is
simulated combat and everything should be asrealistic as possible. Part of making wrestle
and look realistic on TV is makingsure that when wrestlers fight there's something at
stake, that there's a perspective,that they put the match in perspective,
and that for people to care abouttwo counts and near falls and tapouts and

(57:12):
all that, they need to makeit seem like what's going on matters and
that it's part of something larger,and they just don't do that enough.
And if they, if they ownwhat they are and don't try to run
from it. I think it makesfor a better wrestling show. Jason,
about you, any anything you woulddo to make match outcome seem more important?
No, I think he really nailedit there. You know me and
the sports like atmosphere, So I'mtotally with you. I'll just a little

(57:36):
bit off topic, but I'm theonly one who thought Jerry Waller looked better
wearing this just cheap WWE shirt.They found him because his luggage was lost.
I don't know why he needs towear the wrestling gear and the King
outfit on Raw every week. Ithink it's just that old school thing.
I've always be ready, I alwaysbe ready to wrestle, and it is
weird. I agree. I thinkhe looked Yeah, JBL's not coming out

(57:58):
there in his gear, but jBilf not his old school is Jerry Lawler?
I guess yeah. I don't know, honestly, Maybe maybe there's some
reason we don't want to know.I don't know. I don't even know
what that means. But hey,I shouldn't complain about Lawler. It was
a year ago to day, Iknow. Yeah, I mean we are
happy he's still here and absolutely wowI mean that was just that was one

(58:19):
of the more uncomfortable moments in TVwrestling history. That was scary and Michael
Cole was scared. And did theymention it last night? Jason? I
mean they talked about that Paul Hayman'sdoctor a lot, but I don't think
so. I know Lawler had Idon't remember if it was an interview or
something he did where he talked aboutbeing in Canada again, so you know,

(58:40):
right around the same date. ButI don't know that it made its
way to television, and I'm kindof surprised. Give me how much fun
they've actually had with that since itoccurred. Yeah, all right, let's
go to eight six two next,and then two oh one and one one
one on deck. It's Excuply statesyour name and where you're from from North
New Jersey, Kylen, What doyou got for us? Okay? I

(59:02):
have two things. Question number one, if AJ Styles does not win the
TNA World's Fabruweight title a bound forglory, which baby face do you guys

(59:22):
suppose ta and they will go with? Say, if if AJ doesn't sign
a long term deal? And questionnumber two, do you suppose that gold
us will did that final runs thathe told Bruce last year on the Life

(59:49):
cast that he desired to have inw does you easy good topics? Kylin?
Thank you, Jason gold Us.First we said, we want to
see what are the odds that youthink Goldes will get that funnel run that
he does want. I you know, I could see them definitely doing more
with this. You know, Cody'swedding is still a few weeks away,

(01:00:10):
and so I don't know if they'regoing to rush him back before then.
So I yeah, I could actuallysee gold Dust kind of being, you
know, showing up a little bitmore, doing more with this, and
then eventually somehow ended up, youknow, teaming with Cody in some scenario.
I don't know who. I guessmaybe to go against the shield or
something. I'm hopeful. I mean, I nothing locked. I don't know

(01:00:31):
way what would you put it?I sixty percent chance? Now I'd have
it lower than that. I probablyI'd probably put it at around thirty thirty
five percent that he well, thathe'll have a long run or just be
around for a couple more weeks,would just be around more. Yeah,
I mean, if we're talking likefull on signs a year contract I go
lower as well. Yeah, Ijust point. I mean that could be

(01:00:52):
the I won't say, the lastwe see of him. They put enough
heat on the whole Crockett thing andthe Rhodes family and all that that you
would think they've got to do morewith him. But let's put this way,
what are the odds that in threemonths gold dust is a regular part
of HOW shows and TV shows?Then I'm I'll go thirty percent and let
me just stress, WWE I'd muchrather see gold Dust than Dusty. Oh

(01:01:15):
god, Yeah, I'm glad youincluded that. Hopefully that goes without say
well and I don't obviously not onHOW shows, And I just mean it's
part of this. I mean,if Dusty makes an appearance once, that's
cool. I just I don't know, Dusty doesn't do anything for me these
days because he comes out and actslike the the w W E version of
his character. I know. Jablsaid more people know him from the Sapphire

(01:01:36):
Days than any other any other time, which I don't know if that's true,
and it's certainly not relevant Jason ajstous if he is not the center
piece baby face after Bound for Glory, who is well I'll answer this in
a couple of ways. After Boundfor Glory, I would say then it
would be Jeff Hardy. If it'sbefore, like if they just decide,

(01:01:57):
hey, if they like Thursday,they've got the fine is coming up of
the no Surrender or at no Surrender. I guess it is to determine who's
going to challenge Bully Ray. Soif it has to be one of those
guys and it can't be aj forsome reason, then I think you're looking
at Austinaries. I think it wouldbe a mistake. I like Magnus,
a thinker's upside there. I don'tthink the people are taking to them as
much as they need to, andI think they'd really be forcing it if

(01:02:20):
they had him headline with Bully Ray. So I think would have to be
Austinaries. Yeah, Jeff Ardy,Austinaris, Magnus, James Storm, doesn't
seem like they're ready to get beyondhim. So not a ton of great
choices, but they're all. ButI think all that whole list is okay,
you know, none of them scareme. Add some Oad Joe to
that mix. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. You can

(01:02:42):
support us on Patreon and get theseshows with ads and plugs removed, the
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That's patreon dot com slash PW torchvi IP and you can also upgrade

(01:03:07):
two other tiers and receive even morebenefits through Patreon. All right, let's
go next to two A one twoone. Please stay your name and where
you're from. Hi, this isSammy and calling from New Jersey. First
time caller. Hey Sammy, thanksfor calling. How'd you find it?

(01:03:28):
I've been listening to the shows fora while or just uh, you know,
the shows on the website that areposted are just haven't really had a
chance to listen to one of themlive. I guess you had said most
of the ones that are just postedthem the name site cool. Well,
appreciate you calling and listen to theshow. What have you got for us?
There's a few things I'm going totry to keep it quick. I
just had a couple of questions anda little story I wanted them tell.

(01:03:51):
First question was, we're talking aboutrecently about how specifical deal and base uh
way set up beyond the heel doesof the that piece. The face is
a good guy who fights for tothe right, doing things right, and
I just think that too characters likeEddie Guerrero and Steve Austin arguably the most

(01:04:13):
money making baby face ever, andI wanted to know your thoughts on would
you consider those like exceptions to therule on the concept of a baby squeaky
clean baby face or maybe those weredifferent times. The second question had to
do a little history, is towhy the Undertaker has had such short and
doing bar between the title ran consideringhis legendary status and if you think it's

(01:04:38):
a good idea for him and oneof his WrestleManias to probably win the title
one more time to go for onemore run. And the final thing on
the story, it was a timewhere I was a pro wrestler. I
was purely also wrestling back in earlytwo thousands, and I don't want to
like to talk too muspect along andon, but basically I wanted to say.

(01:05:00):
It was a time player out askedby the company to drive a couple
wrestlers two different occasions to as ECUAYshow in Delaware. There's one of them
was Kazarian, then the other onewas Eric and Dragon Champion Brian. And
the one thing I remember from thetwo of them was there absolute like literally
the entire car ride, which inBrian's case was like many hours because I

(01:05:21):
topped the fire. All they talkedabout was wrestling. They loved wrestling.
It's like when Brian was sucking onhis promo recently about you know, if
like a fire today, I'll goback to the wrestling and you know,
Hall and just ever do you meanthat's a hundred percent trough and we did.
I bring it up is because whenI was the wrestled. One of
the reasons I stopped those I lookedaround with a lot of the guys that

(01:05:43):
I kind of grew up idle livethings, especially like as an ECB fan,
wanting to get interrested and work forVID so to speak. And I
got to moralized at that time byI'm not gonna do any names with some
of the people that I did watchgrowing up like a lot of talk problems
and you could see it on TVof Boxing Stars because I was a little
jaded by what I saw wrestling asWicky, even if all the life box

(01:06:06):
that stand. And what I wantedto mention was that is looking at the
way the product is now and that'sgonna be kids the only one and considering
how bigs going, how they wrestthinks how that might potentially people we are
looking to get into wrestling, especiallyif they little bits wrestling like I did
as Sammy, Sammy, your receptionsgetting worse and and we're I don't want

(01:06:27):
to completely lose what you're saying orlose lose your uh, lose your point
because as as the calls gone on, we were having more more trouble understanding
it. But I did get thegist of what you had to say about
Kas and Brian. Okay. Iwas just wondering, think that the way
the product is now be more alivepeople to be like I'm making try to
be big an esplay. Yeah,Jason, I think I got the I

(01:06:48):
hope I got the end of itwas it was just very tough to hear
Sammy at the end. First ofall, let me answer so I don't
forget the Eddie Gurrow and Steve Bostonas exceptions, or was it another time
they I'm not an advocate of squeakyclean baby faces. I'm I'm an advocate
of baby faces who have qualities thatwrestling fans look up to and that they
should look up to, and otherthan when Steve Austin near the end was

(01:07:10):
doing things like giving stunners to womenfor no reason, which was just not
my favorite part of the Steve Austonera. Steve Austen fought for, fought
for, stood for things that youwould want your best friend to stand for,
you know. I mean he wasn'tHe didn't fight with the help of
a manager. He didn't win matcheswith the help of other people. He

(01:07:30):
didn't take advantage of he didn't createadvantages for himself because he felt that he
couldn't win on his own. Ijust think there's this feeling that, well,
somebody gives a middle finger and anduh and swears a little that that
means they're a bad guy, andit doesn't. It was Austin. He
Austin had a very strong personality andit's fit the attitude era, and he
would have to augment that if hewere around today, and I'm sure St.

(01:07:53):
John Cena would be more edgy anddifferent if he were around back then.
But Steve Austin stood for justice,He stood for are giving the heels
what they had coming, and hefought people who had traits that were not
admirable. And Steve Auston fought forwhat was right. He fought against Vince
McMahon and the Boss who thought hewas better than everybody else. So I

(01:08:14):
thought that Steve Austin was was anabsolute, by the books, straight up
baby face. But he fought firewith fire when he had to. But
there's a lot of examples of thosebaby faces over the years. Steve Auston
was not the exception. It's justyou know, some things that he did
in terms of especially the middle fingerthat you know just you wouldn't be able
to get away within other eras ofpro wrestling. But if even if you

(01:08:34):
take away the attitude rastuss, Stevewas a traditional baby face along the lines
of a lot of other baby facesin many over many generations. Eddie Gurrow,
I get the line cheating and stealingtype thing. I wasn't. I
was not a huge fan of thataspect of his personality that it kind of
became ironically endearing. You know,well, yeah, Helie's cheats and steals

(01:08:55):
better than the other guys, andthere's a cleverness to what he does,
and we admire that he's clever andthat taking that he's fighting guys at he's
fighting guys at their own game.He's beating guys at their own game by
being more clever. And so thatwas his trait that yeah, he lies
sheets and steals and he's proud ofit, but he does it first before
his opponents would do it, andhe did it against people who were even

(01:09:17):
worse than he was. They wereless clever and how they went about it,
but they were you know, theywere willing to cheat and cheat a
lot more. And I think whenyou have I don't mean this than over
overly simplistic way, when you havea great smile and a great personality and
you're just emoting that you're happy andpositive and enthusiastic, which Eddie did when
he was a baby face, andthen you're really good in the ring and

(01:09:40):
you're an underdog, a scrappy underdoglike Daniel bryan Is. I just think
that makes you an endearing character.So I don't think there is much exceptions
to the squeaky clean because I don'tthink baby faces have to be squeaky clean.
I don't think John Ceni needs tobe. I don't think Bob Backland
was a great a baby He wasa baby face, but he was a
squeak clean baby face like Brett Hartwas too for the most part. But

(01:10:01):
that's not what I mean. Imean you want the personality of the face
to be someone that you would wantas your best who would stand up for
your for the right values, thatyou would want as your neighbor or your
brother in law or your best friendor your co worker, somebody who's going
to look out for you and uhand not when your back is turned do
something to screw you over. Andthat defines Steve Boston, and that defines
that he garrel. He stood byhis friends. So I'm absolutely think they're

(01:10:26):
consistent with with what I prescribe ababy they should be Jason to want anything
to that. And also give yourthoughts on Undertakers, why he has short
title rains and the possibility of gettingthe belt at Mania. You know,
I'll take the Undertaker stuff. Ithink I don't think he needs it.
I mean, if they really wantto send him off and they have some
great idea for what happens if Takerretires as champion and they come out of

(01:10:48):
it, they think they'll get attentionfor that. Fine. I don't think
it's necessary. And I think that'swhy Takers under his title rains were so
short too. It's because it wasn'tnecessary. He didn't need the tie.
You could put the title, especiallyin later years on someone else. Taker
could be on the show and justas many people are gonna come see him
because he's Undertaker than they would ifhe was champion. Yeah, I don't.

(01:11:12):
I don't like the idea of Undertakergoing after the title. And that's
the reason he had short title reinsbecause Undertaker is bigger than the championship in
certain ways, or he's different,he's on a different path. Undertaker was
a gimmick performer, and yeah hehad he had some title reins, but
they didn't build around him for long. I don't know what as long as
title rein was, but Undertaker hada gimmick that it's he's the best gimm
Bruce Mitchell says this, he's thebest gimmick performer in his arresting at the

(01:11:35):
Best Gimmick. He was a guykind of like Honor the Giant where he
didn't need a title or Abdullah theButcher and didn't need a title, and
Undertakers different than those two, buthe, if it fits the mold of
he was an attraction unto himself,and he didn't seem like the type of
person who would go after the titleand have the type of pride in being

(01:11:56):
a long term champion like a Johnc and a CM Punker or Randy Orton
or and Eddie Garrow or a brockLesner for that matter. He just he
was a special attraction. And Ithink the downside of Undertaker going after the
belt at the WrestleMania and there's somepositives, but the downside is you've now
taken two main event draws and turnthem into one, because Undertaker's streak is
a draw unto itself. I don'tthink you need to pile on a WWB
title because I think a separate titlematch and an Undertakers streak separate means more

(01:12:23):
than the boost you get from addingthe WWB title to an Undertaker streak match.
Does that make sense Jason, itdoes yeah, and then he oh,
and then he just commented on Daniel, Bryan and Kaz being huge into
wrestling, and yeah, I meanthat's their reputation, you know, and
that works in their favor. AndI think more guys that love wrestling and
want to talk about it NonStop,I think it shows up in the ring

(01:12:45):
and in their work that they're committedto their job. You don't have to
be that way to draw. Butit doesn't hurt Jason. No day did
the callers say he was a wrestIt was really hard. He was an
indie wrestler in New Jersey back inthe day when they were indie r oh
man, you should have asked himwear his locker and was located? Why's
that with the job or oh,I don't know what he was. I
don't think that applies the indie showthough. That's true. Well, I'm

(01:13:09):
just just in case he worked,you know, WWFO squash match show or
something like that. Yeah, allright, well, Sammy call us next
week and we'll talk more. Andyou got a better connection and we'll figure
that out. Let's go our lastcall her the day showing up as one
on one. So maybe call herID or Skype or I mean call blocking
or spe Skype. Uh you areon? Please stach you name and where
you're from. Hey, it's Seanfrom Monroe, Louisiana. Hey, Sean,

(01:13:33):
thanks for calling. What have yougot for us? Hey? Man,
how's it going? I was justgonna ask a couple of questions.
What you guys thought would happen withPunk on the paper view? Hello?
Yeah, go ahead, disco ifyou think, if you think see him,
Punk will finish up with the Haymanfeud and the feud will be over

(01:13:56):
and maybe move on to help inBrian, or will see a new Hayman
guy show up. There's if anew Hayman guy doesn't show up, I
don't see how they could continue thisfeud any longer. Agree or disagree?
I agree? I think Jason isit working the way it is now.
I think that Sunday they likely willintroduce somebody new. Oh, they definitely

(01:14:18):
need to. If Paul I heardBruce kind of allude to the possibility that
Hayman is going away, not thathe had inside info, but just kind
of that the storyline almost makes itseem like he's going to get beat up
at some point and disappear for awhile and then come back stronger. If
that's not in play, then theyneed Luke Gallows or Matt Morgan or somebody

(01:14:41):
that from developmental just you know,they need a new Paul Hayman guy.
Curtis Axel's not cutting it. Andeven last night it's like they show you,
Wow, you've got this mean streak. He beats up Kope Kingston and
then three seconds later he takes akick to the face and he's laying their
self. I didn't get that atall. No, I didn't either,
all right. I think they've givenup with I really. I mean,
I just think Axel's just under themid card guy and they realized that and

(01:15:03):
there's no changing it now. PaulHayman was great last night, though.
I laughed out loud when he ranfrom the ring and forgot that he had
to sell the knee injury. Iwas just classic manager stuff. It touch
a nice contrast too, you know, the wrestling one on one with you
know, manager being conniving and thenthe baby face runs out in the manager
forgets and runs away. It's beendone before I knew it was coming.
Paul played that part really well andit's just nice to not have people talking

(01:15:24):
about who was a drawing card,who drew a diamond? What's good for
business? And it's about baby Faceand about fans wanting to see the baby
Face beat up the conniving heel thatwas a learned doctor that seem Punk decided
to beat it. I was appalled, he's the baby fit. Why would
you beat that man down? WhatI didn't get. By the way,
Jason Is on the tweet that ranlater on the Crawler We're see Hi Punk

(01:15:45):
said I hate the doctors. It'sbecause of the WWE doctor that Paul Hayman
got exposed. And I thought thatwas a little little broad's throw for seam
Punk, who's usually little smart,a little smarter than that. Yeah,
really he can say I hate NewYork doctor or something like that, but
I don't know. Anyway, Ihaven't plugged it yet. The PW Torch
VPP website. To go VIP meansthat you gain access for ten dollars a

(01:16:10):
month or less if you subscribe fora year to our online archives and all
the VIP exclusive content that that's putup every day. That includes, by
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(01:16:35):
the app and the website, sothat's one of the perks of being a
VIP member. Otherwise one is availableonly on the app, the others available
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(01:16:55):
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(01:17:16):
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(01:17:41):
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(01:18:02):
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(01:18:25):
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(01:19:09):
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(01:21:21):
and some other stuff that we haven'tcovered yet from raw last night and current
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(01:21:51):
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(01:22:11):
Downcast, and all your favorite secondaryapps, or visit us directly at pwboom
dot com. Once again, that'spwboom dot com. All right, we're
now to the bad after show portionof the program. Jason, let's dive
right into some email questions. BrianOlston, a long time proposing towards subscriber

(01:22:33):
for twenty two years, has thisquestion ww reproduction. That's taken some hits
lately, like when they missed thehighknee that Daniel Brian gave Seth Rollins during
their August twenty six Raw. Matsch. Huge kudos to the camera during the
Edge Trip Late segment on last night'sRaw, though not sure if it was
live or taped, the intensity betweenEdge and Trip lates was incredible. Even
better, Dean Ambrose was in theframe the entire time looking menacing and just

(01:22:54):
over Dean should Dean shoulder with StephanieMcMahon, even though we saw Stephanie only
from our eyes upward Days was perfect, and when the camera panned Assass and
Roman Reigns, they had to leaveall books on their faces. Overall and
excellent segment, Jason, That's good, although there was also the misshot of
Daniel Brian ducking. I think itwas Dan Ambrose charging Adam and being knocked
over the over the top rope tothe floor. So they even had another

(01:23:16):
miss last night. But when wwb'son, Jason, their production values are
great. Oh absolutely, Yeah,he's talking about the backstage segment. I
believe where the shield got in frontof Edge before we could get two Hunter.
Yep, yeah, that was reallywell done back there, no doubt
about it. Yeah, very good. All right, Noel, I'm sorry,
John says on the September ninth editionof Raw to place cut a promo

(01:23:39):
on Edge, saying that he didn'tdraw a dime. According to Dave Melzer's
research, edges the forty second bestdraw in WWW history. So my questions
are, how does he work outwho the draws? Well, that's a
good question for him. Sean Michaelsfor whatever reason, instead to be one
of the worst strong champions in thehistory of WWS, w W E and
ninety six company instead to be inreal financial trouble. Yet Melzer ranked him
as ten higher than w's current topstar John Cena trip Leah. Also being

(01:24:02):
ranked higher than Rock and Steve Austonseems questionable as well. Yeah, I'm
sorry, John, but that's aquestion for Dave because I don't know his
methodology, and like you, Ithink you pick out that sometimes numbers alone
don't always tell the story. Thereare it's uh, you know, there's
the signal and there's a noise anda lot of times there's a lot more
noise than there is a solid signaltelling you who the better draws, And

(01:24:25):
it's just it shows the folly oftrying to plug numbers into a formula and
have something pop out come out theother side that is, you know,
that takes into consideration everything. It'dbe nice if everything we're that clear cut,
that numbers told the whole story.But it's kind of like quarter our
ratings, Jason. You know youcan sit here and say, oh,
you know whole Cogan is always inthe top rated segment. Well, that's
because he always puts himself in asegment with no commercials, put somebody before

(01:24:47):
him that is a draw, andnever is in a segment with two commercial
breaks, and they hype the segments. Well, that's going to draw better
than an unannounced match at a deadtime in the show. After you in
a segment that had two commerci breaksright before it, with no hype leading
into it. That doesn't mean Hogan'sa better draw. It means he was
given a lot more promotion and hype. And being a champion who's dropped into

(01:25:08):
the middle of a bad era withbad booking or a lack of supporting stars
or just not a real not areal wind that they're in their sales momentum
wise, can make someone seem likea bad, bad draw, when in
fact they're the only thing holding thepromotion together from collapsing. And then you
can drop somebody else in the middleof a hot streak into a hot promotion

(01:25:29):
and give them the title and havethem hold it for three months and they
can be the greatest strong Champion ofall time. But the fact is is
it was everything else, including thewind at their sales, that made them
look like a big draw, whenin fact they didn't, you know,
contribute at all. So I'm notthere's a lot of things I think numbers
tell the story on, but Ijust don't think there's a formula where you
can PLoP in numbers and then startjudging Kevin Nash and Shawn Michaels against John

(01:25:51):
Cena and Triple H. So there'smy take on that, or my earlier
theory that there's deep rooted hatred betweenyou and Dave Melzer's I play again.
Wow, that's true. Maybe heuh, maybe he said something bad about
me in the Grantline interview and thatcompletely completely changed my perspective on him from
loving his statistical breakdown there. ButI just i'd have to see his his

(01:26:11):
you know, all the methodology,and that's just not fresh in my mind
right now. Yeah, I don'tknow what the formula is. I'm just
I can't really say much about iteither. I mean, it kind of
you know what you were talking about. It kind of goes into what I
was saying about Taker just not needingthe title all that many time. I
mean, how many shows did itwas Edge the champion for where Taker was
also on the show without the title, Not that they were going against one

(01:26:33):
another, it's just Taker was probablythe bigger draw than Edge was for that
particular show. Yeah. And also, I mean, like, you can
be a top drawing champion because youif if if you are the booker or
the booker or the Greatest Team orvinsick Man wants you to draw, they
can build things around you in away where you draw and give you all
the top opponents and and even atthe sacrifice of long term business. But

(01:26:58):
if you're given the title, butas kind of self fulfilling prophecy, they
don't want you to draw because theysort of feel they have to give you
a chance for the belt, butthey're don't really believe in you, and
then they don't hype you well onTV, and they don't give you the
strongest opponents, and they actually youknow, one of the top stars is
injured or is taking time off.You might that none of that shows up
in the numbers. You know,there's just there's way, they're way too
many other factors than just what wasthe by rate or how much did the

(01:27:21):
numbers go up or down compared toanother. It's just you just can't do
that. I mean, it's justyou can't plug numbers in and get and
get any anything out the other endthat isn't full of needing a human being
with a brain who followed things inreal time to go, Yeah, but
there was this, this and thisthat don't show up in the numbers that
affected it for better or for worse. Up next, justin VIF member says,

(01:27:45):
I was watching Role last night.I saw the crowd was entertaining themselves
by starting different chants. My questionis are they doing this because they're disinterested
in what's going on in the ringor because they want to feel like they're
part of the show. Also,when they're chanting the announcer's names during matches,
to the announcers acknowledge a chance,so they will stop the chan answer
to the announcers ignore them, Jason, There's probably a little of both,
but I lean more toward they don'tlike what's happening in the ring. I

(01:28:10):
think, if you, I mean, it's not like Daniel Bryan when he's
in his flurry all of a suddenthey're gonna start channing for Undertaker. I
mean they're they're they're kind of bored, they've got some time to fill,
and they take advantage of it andhumor themselves the announcers. I you know,
I'm not sure, Wade. Ijust don't know that I've been at
a raw or SmackDown where they've startedchanning the names of the announcers. I

(01:28:34):
well, first, the first thingthat you said is true. Nobody's going
to chant Undertaker during Dan and Brianmatch randomly, so that's part of it.
I don't think the announcers acknowledge thechance. They're worried about announcing the
show and sticking to it. Theydon't want to encourage it, or you
know, part of me, Jasonthinks they kind of don't want to stop
it, but they don't want toseem like they're overtly encouraging it. Because

(01:28:54):
if your name is being chanted andit's not derisively, you do want to
make it. You don't want tostop it. You know, you're you're
thinking about yourself and hey, youknow, the fans care enough of me
to change you. But when they'rejust going through chanting everybody's name, you
know, all three announces, itkind of loses any kind of you know,
I hope nobody. I don't.I don't think Jerry Lawler should be
especially happy because it's not like theychanted his name, they just chanted all

(01:29:15):
three announcers names. But yeah,the fans got board. They wanted to
do their thing. It's Canada.It's kind of like the day after Mania
for the crowd kind of took over. You know, it is what it
is, and but that's not goingto happen in a match where people care
about the winner and the loser.When there's been you know, proper build
up to the match and fans feellike something's at stake and they care about
one guy winning and one guy losing, they're not gonna be entertaining themselves.

(01:29:35):
Like that. H J. Petersays, is anybody going to mention the
fact that Curtis Axel is the IcyChampion but isn't defending the title on Sunday?
He could have easily wrestled Kofi Kingstonwhile Paul Hayman had to finally face
see him punk all alone. It'snot like Axel actually adds anything as a
Hayman guy anyway, Jason, I'mnot sure that I want Paul Hayman and
see him punk one on one yet. I think that's premature. But I

(01:29:57):
think if you're building up Night ofthe Champions, why does Curtis ax Will
need to have the ICY title.It's not like that's adding to his act
right now in a way where thatmakes the Punk Cayman feud more valuable.
So you know, and I knowthey'd say, well, we don't want
Curtis Axel to drop the ICY titlebecause that makes them look even weaker going
into the match. But if youhad some long term planning, you just
wouldn't have the belt in the firstplace. But the short answer is they

(01:30:18):
don't care about the N Champions teamthis year. No, they clearly don't,
And I mean, I guess Anotherquestion is why does the IC title
exists anymore? And I love thesecondary championships and I'd love to see them
utilize properly, but has it doneanything for Curtis Axel? Has he brought
anything to the title? And when'sthe last time you can actually say that

(01:30:40):
someone did or that the title reallypropped them up. There's plenty of times
when we get excited when somebody wins, thinking this might be the guy that's
going to help bring some prestige backto this title, but it's I can't
even remember with the last time thatthat person existed. I know, No,
I'm with you. I mean,if there're w W with with one
essentially one roster, two singles titleswould be planning for me. And if

(01:31:03):
they merged the World title, theUS title, and the ICY title into
one new title, and what youknow they call what the if they called
it the Intercontinental Title but merged itwith the US and the World title,
I'd be fine with that because theICY title has such heritage. But vincc
managed is hesitant to pull the triggerand getting rid of that second world title
because he thinks it helps draw outhouse shows to have a world you know,

(01:31:24):
one world title, so to speak, on each house show, and
there's a great lineage with w Wand I think he's holding out the possibility
and maybe doing a brand split againsomeday, and who knows what else.
I mean, So he just Ijust thinks he thinks addressing that isn't going
to make a real difference to peopleto what the Wall Street the numbers that
Wall Street cares about. So wejust he just doesn't pay that much attention
to it, other than thinking,let's have a world title in each house

(01:31:46):
show. But it's not. Andto be fair, I mean we we
certainly have acknowledged that the ice titleis not being the d on the show.
Yes we did, but I thinkhe sent the question before our show.
So but shame on you for notmentioning it more often. All right,
Christman, New Jersey. I waswondering if it was just me or
dis Triple H's you never do adime comment toward Edge diminished Edges impact in

(01:32:06):
the future. I felt like therewas so many I felt there were so
many other ways to fire back atEdge. That's just pointing out he hurt
himself at a relatively young age orwas a smaller wrestler, which was sit
the Daniel Bran story perfectly. Ijust can't think of a reason, and
I'll bring it up. The drawingpower of edge or anyone in general,
makes yours want to see Daniel Brianwin the WWW title when there are other
ways that would connect with the entireviewing audience. And speaking a drawing power,

(01:32:26):
it wasn't triple H positioned at thetop start during the early two thousands
when business shrank considerably. To befair, there were other factors. But
since Hunter wants to go there curiousfor your thoughts. Thanks was always true,
tremendous work both you and your staffdoing your respective sites. Thanks Chris.
Yeah, Jayson, I mean that'sjust it. Just they shouldn't be
talking about who draws or who doesn't. I mean when when can you imagine
a discussion about the great running backsin NFL history and in the middle of

(01:32:50):
that discussion discussing how Barry Standers didn'tdraw in Detroit, the types of crowds
that that Dickerson drew in La orSaint Louis, wherever he played the most
like it would just that would justbe so irrelevant and stupid and jarring to
the audience, and at some pointwrestling promoters and bookers and wrestlers who script

(01:33:11):
their stuff, they got a smartknop and realize they're a simulated combat show,
and you don't in the middle ofsimulating a combat show talk about something
that would not be talked about ifit were real. It's just it makes
no sense. It takes people outof the moment. It's completely irrelevant.
I do think Jason a little bitsaying Edge you never drew a dime.
I think it does her of starpower a little bit in the eyes of
fans, because I think those littlethings chip away. I don't think fans

(01:33:32):
would have even thought twice about it, But now I think a lot of
people are going was Edge of failure? Did he not drawn when he was
champion? Oom? I think thathurts so little. I don't think it's
a big deal, but I groanedwhen Hunter said it. I didn't think.
I thought it was pretty irrelevant,and I thought, actually it was
a little mean spirited, and becauseI think in Triplachio's mind he thinks it's
kind of true and it's his wayof being a prick and putting Edge putting

(01:33:53):
Adam Copeland in his place. Ithink that Leaksanda. I think that Leasanda
Triplachio's character on air character. Ithink with fans who pay attention and care
about who drew and who did what, maybe it brings it to their attention
to the To the average fan athome, I don't think they give it
damn enough to where it's going toaffect Edge in any way. Yeah.

(01:34:15):
I mean, it's just it isirrelevant, you know, that's what.
And it's coming from the heel,you know. I just I think most
people are gonna sit there and justlook at it as Oh, that dastardly
Triple HS is trying to insult Edge. But I don't. I mean,
if you like Edge or you're reallylooking at him differently to day, go
oh wow. I thought he wasmore popular than he was, but Triple

(01:34:36):
H says he didn't draw. Ijust don't think there's that many fans out
there that pay that close of attentionto it. Yeah, And even if
they said it on a NFL game, I don't think many NFL fans would
go, oh, I I likeBarry Setter's less now that I realized that
he didn't draw as well in Detroitas Eric Dickerson did and for the ramsom.
I like, it's just like fanslike to watch athletes do what athletes

(01:34:56):
do well. And I just thinkPete bookers get way too fascinated did with
what absorbs their lives for the other, you know, the other twenty three
hours a day or twenty twenty onehours a day that they're not on the
air that day, they're thinking aboutnumbers and business figures. But fans don't
care about that stuff. They tuneinto wrestling to see people fight and talk
about fights. And that's what theyshould stick to, is win loss records
and settling grudges and leave the talkof ratings and who drew and what's good

(01:35:19):
for business just completely off the air. I just don't think people care about
it. Jerry from Illinois is doyou think Triple ch not cutting edge off
when he said Trip Leach is ina dictator He's just a dick. He
did it late so Dick could beset on the air. I'm tired of
Triple h already. I actually thoughthe did interrupt him right before he got
to the second half of Dick.I thought I thought I heard Dick.

(01:35:40):
Yeah, maybe talked over it.Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
I don't. I think they wanta plausible in the inability that they tried
to cut it off before set onthe air, and that's why Trip Leach
sort of talked over him, butsort of didn't. And we'll have to
look at the replay. Speaking ofreplace Jason while Robert. While I was
recording my hotline last night after Raw, I had a second NFL game on,

(01:36:00):
and every time I looked at thescreen, it was a slow motion
replay of something that would happen earlier. What does go? It's like the
NFL has become It's not even alife sport anymore. It's okay, here's
twenty seconds or something or eight secondsof something, and now we're gonna spend
six minutes looking at it from multipleangles as we watch referees stand around and
talk. Yeah, there's a lotof that. I thought you were just
referring to the effect that every playis now replayed like two or three times.

(01:36:24):
It feels like, no, everyevery play is a close call and
we have to decide did he catchit or not, or did his toe
touch or did he cross the plane? It was like, and it could
have just been the random timing ofmy watching, but between the Vikings game
and in Monday and football, itjust seemed like more than ever, there's
all these replays and just somebody hasa suggestion that there should be like a

(01:36:45):
centrally located group of people at NFLheadquarters who look at the replays, do
it really efficiently and they and theyjust turn around and have results really quickly
instead of leaving it to the refereeson the field have to walk over to
the booth and discuss it. Idon't know, it's just it seemed like
it's just watching the NFL feels likeI want to watch the Hulu Plus version
of it because I think I couldget through a game, you know,

(01:37:05):
in forty minutes. One way thatyou can help us sustain our schedule of
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(01:37:26):
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Apple Podcasts that helps us on searchreturns and helps us grow. And if
you want, you can add afew comments about what you like about the
programs in the comments section. Thankyou so much. Well, I mean

(01:37:46):
there, you know, every touchdownnow is reviewed and that adds to it.
But I'm waiting. I mean,that's the NHL has that where it's
determined in Toronto at the NHL office, there's people that they focus on the
replay and then relay that information tothe referee. It's still time consuming,
unfortunately. But yeah, I meanit's because it's I think there's conspiracy theorists

(01:38:11):
who would sit there and wow,we don't even see the person. They
don't see them now they go underthe hood and stare at a screen.
It's it's and put heads of headphoneson. Why you need headphones to look
at a review? I'm not quitesure. I think there's actually someone they're
talking with up up in the booth. Oh yeah, they say slow that
down, restarted and the person goess meet, what angle do you want?
And you know, so I guessthat's probably why. Yeah, And

(01:38:33):
but point is conspiracy theorists still findissues with this approach, so yes,
let's let them find more issues andjust beat up the damn game. I'm
kind of ready to go back tothe call on the field stands and there
is no replay and let's just geton with it. Let's just bring back
the replacement referees. We could dothat too, or no referees. Oh

(01:38:54):
man, it's like a pick okayat the club, just the other team
calls a follow. It's an honorsystem. There's no honor in no situations.
No, there isn't, not withthe money on the line, all
right, Alex from Connecticut, Monday'sRaw un Monday's. Rather, it was
an instance whe Randy Orton rolled outof the ring and Michael col said Orton's
a veteran and that's why he's champion. I thought the story they're telling is

(01:39:14):
Orton is a champion because the CEOhanded him the title. Isn't wwf WWB
isn't interested And announcers who call actualmoves shouldn't they hire announcers to advance the
stories that the people who actould payattention instead of a guy who spits out
cliches in the same vintage lines weekafter week. That's all Cold does when
he's not overcompensating for the time he'sspent at the healed character. Okay,
this Alex, I think is anoverreaction. I think Cole has been really

(01:39:34):
good lately and point there, there'sa point there, there is. But
I think the second half of thequestion giving cola hard time, I think
is is little dated. I thinkCold is really good lately to say that
Orton's a veteran and that's why he'schampion because he rolled out of the ring.
I think Michael Cole should be going, Randy, get in there and

(01:39:55):
fight and quit bailing out just becauseyou're in a rough spot on the mat,
right, you know what I mean? Like, that's what I want
to say. If if you're goingto be that, if you're going to
be the conscience of the company andthe straight men leader knows or you have
to get emotionally involved with the productin a way that you want viewers too.
And the way that you want viewersget involved in Randy Orton right now
is that guy shouldn't be champion.He got handed the title. He's just
like that guy at work who gothanded his promotion who went been here as

(01:40:18):
long now just because he wears abetter stuit and comes from you know,
as a better as a you know, he's this or bad, whatever the
whatever the complaint is. It's likepeople run into that all the time in
their lives and or you know,my my brother was a favorite of our
parents and that's why he got allThat's why he's more scustl than me,
because he got all the It's likepeople feel cheated and jilted by people who

(01:40:39):
are who are treated given preferential treatment. Randy Orton has been given preferential treatment
by the boss. Play into that. That upsets people. People can relate
to that. Play into that onthe air. That's how you get to
get Randy Orton over as a heel. You don't talk about, Oh look
at how smarty is for rolling outof the ring. That's what a veteran
does. It's like, no,you don't put over those tactics. Even
though most of those people that areyou know, complaining about their work situation,

(01:41:02):
you know, called into work threetimes this month and have like two
sexual harassment investigations. Well there arethose people. Yeah, there are those
people too, absolutely, But youknow, what if they tell themselves a
story and it makes sense to them. They're your fans too, and you
want to you want to draw,you want them to go out there and
boo Randy Orton. So just tellthat consistent story that Randy doesn't deserve that

(01:41:24):
title. And I think the announcersneed to put themselves in the place of
the fan, at least the babyface announcers need to say, how,
how is this story being written orhow should it be written? But you
know, what do we want emotion? What emotions do we want fans to
feel towards the Heels? And thatis that they're cheating, they got things
added to them, and that theyget an unfair advantage, and that they
think they're all that and they're notall that, and and they're fooling themselves.

(01:41:45):
And I can't wait to see themget humbled. That's what this is
all about. And the lead announcersshould always be playing into that on his
commentary, not giving the heel creditfor like Colvid in that commentary that Alex
brought up, right, that's aline jb El should you say? And
then lawlor or Cole should be youknow, even bad at about it.
Yeah, they should should have down. Yeah, Yeah, I totally agree
a Diva's division. Last question Jamesfrom Harrisburg, PA. I'm a VP

(01:42:08):
member of Loaves Every Moment Worth everypenny. After watching Rod and Night,
I'm wondering why there's even a women'sdivision. I think j Lee cut a
great promo on what a title meansto her and that's why it's important and
why you should care to see heron Sunday, and then she was buried
at every turn by Lawler in JBL. I understand the women's division can be
cringeworthy at times. When you getsomething good, why bury it at every
turn? Lately, ww's bearing thingsBrian Zigler aj and is making it an
easy decision for me to skip thepay per views, because if they don't

(01:42:30):
take things seriously, why should I. The announcers seemed more worried about their
next one liner than their matches,and triplacious, more worried about feeding is
under the giant sized ego. Alot to agree with her, Jason,
other than I think the Diva storylineis a mess and unsalvageable. There's a
lot to be said about that overallattitude of undercutting things that you know,
probably the bookers just aren't excited aboutYeah, And I wish aj was portrayed

(01:42:54):
as being crazy enough that they actuallyhad a little fear that if they did
mock or she would fawl her eyesout right there. Yes, but but
it's kind of it is a messbecause she is saying admirable things about what
the title means to her, andshe's the one who made valid points about
the divas in her big promo acouple of weeks, a week or two

(01:43:14):
ago, and she's the heel.So it's I'm not even not trying to
justify what they're doing, but Iam saying, like I just don't know
what I mean. It's just adisaster. It's like you, I don't
even if you know that she's supposedto be the heel or the face,
that's more than I can then Ican give to it, because I'm not.

(01:43:38):
I don't. It seems like they'vemaybe lost faith in what they originally
wanted to do and are trying todo something different. Maybe it's just such
a mess. I can't even tell. See, I think she's a heel.
But you know, like I saidearlier, they don't do turns well,
so God only knows. I know, God only knows. See that
was you on Twitter. It wasyeah, how do you like that tie
in? Pretty awesome, don't youthink? Right? Never mind, all

(01:44:00):
right, Jason. Well we'll endon that note. Big week ahead though,
and I had a champions coming upJimmy Hart tomorrow on the live cast,
and your members will have Dotten netWeekly coming up to get an in
depth recap with Chris Shore of what'sgoing on in the week and the latest
developments inside of news. Any anyclosing thoughts from you that aren't breaking bad
spoilers. I don't know when itwill air, but there's gonna be a

(01:44:23):
tremendous guest on the MLW podcast thisweek. We will be recording Thursday.
I just don't know again when whenit's going to air, but I think
they usually run him on Sundays.But are you their guest? I yeah,
I am, oh, okay,that's funny. I had all the
big names in my mind and youwere like the fourth one I came to
and I was like, it's yourfourth yep, yeah, yep. I

(01:44:45):
had Vince McMahon number one. Ithink he'd be a good gut I assume
Paul Hayman would be really good.You know, I think that'd be interesting,
you know, court power on withhim, and then uh, and
then I was thinking for number threeSentino because he's been away for a while.
And then you you were good untilthe third. Yeah that's not cool.
Well, when's the last time youknow, you've been well, you

(01:45:06):
know, you and I have himaround for a few weeks together, but
Santino hasn't been around for months.Yeah. I even made a point about
that in my hit list today becauseI know people and Conio says, are
a lost blah blah blah, Calmdown. It was Santino's return, it
was his hometown, and yeah,it could have been someone else, but
it wasn't. It's not like they'redoing anything special, which his arrows and

(01:45:26):
he lost on a fluke. Noone thinks Santino's a better wrestler. They
think Antonio over underestimated Santino and gotcaught with a fluke pin. There's a
differce between somebody beating you clean withtheir finisher or almost clean with their finisher,
and and the focus is all onthe winner versus ha ha, this
heel thought he was you know,underestimated Santino when he got caught. I
mean, the portrayal of Antonio wasn'tas a job or the portrayal of Antone.

(01:45:48):
It's on who wins and loses.It's what's the story that's told in
the match, and how are theyportrayed from beginning to end, including the
finish, but also before the finishing, after the finish. Everything about that
match did not say we're bearing AntonioSazzaro. It's at Antonio Cizaro's playing the
cocky, arrogant European guy who totallyunderestimated Santino and he's a real American and

(01:46:10):
is a real American. Yes,we the people, all right, Jason,
good to be back with you.Good to be back with you.
Maybe one of these weeks we cantalk about a certain football team winning.
But I think it's gonna be acouple of weeks. I think, yeah,
that was That was a fun,fun first run from ap but kind
of I don't know about twenty fivehundred, Jason. I think when you

(01:46:30):
start saying stuff like that, youstart chinxing yourself and people really target you,
and that may be happening this year. Well, I mean that was
that's a hell on a defensive line. They I hope. So, yeah,
one of them is one hundred thousanddollars lighter in the wallet today for
what. There's the cheap shot onSullivan. Oh okay, okay, they
find him. They find him onehundred grand, which I mean, Hellie

(01:46:50):
could have been suspended. But whatever'sgonna punish him, and he's he's gonna
feel I mean, guy's just dirty. It's a shame because he's a really
talented player. But yeah, itwasn't pretty. They that that ap run
to start the season or a Dbecause I'll get scolded if I call him
ap he Uh that that may belike the big highlight of the year from

(01:47:13):
the high point of the season.You mean, yeah, there it.
I mean, I don't I justdon't see this team unless Winfield comes out
of retirement. I'm still looking atseven and nine at that on the high
end of things. I was saying, yeah, when you said seven to
nine in your email, I'm like, oh, they must have won.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Alot of people pointing like where there seven

(01:47:35):
wins coming from? And yeah,but also those same people last year were
eating Crow all year long when theywritten off the Vikings and they thought it
was over and they came storming back. Hopefully I'll be that guy this year.
I'd love to see him come stormingback and from them there just that
one oh and one hole they've dugthemselves. Yeah, exactly. I thought
Ponder. I mean, the ponderdidn't look great, but I thought there

(01:47:57):
were probably four plays where I'm like, oh God, Potter haters are going
to dwell on those, and it'sjust, you know, it wasn't his
fault, like you know, evenI think it was was was a Billick
on commentary You and the main announcersaid, oh, that passes way off
and Billick said, that's the rightplace to throw it because otherwise he gets
picked off. That he at leastgave his respee for a chance, but
didn't give the defender a chance.And there's a lot of guys sitting at
sports bars watching that, No,I can't even throw on target, and

(01:48:19):
they're just gonna call up the sportsshows and vision moan. And I thought
they were probably three or four timesI sat Ponder and I'm just like,
there's more and I'm far from anexcess, and those you know, expert
far from it. But I'm like, he's gonna get heat for that,
but he doesn't deserve it. Butthat said, he didn't do anything good.
You know, he didn't do anythingabove average to make up for,

(01:48:39):
you know, the mediocrity that youknow of everything else. So well,
I just I just think it's tooearly to judge. But everyone's just waiting
with bated breath to just, youknow, say, he's awful and I
want to give him a couple moregames. Oh absolutely. I mean people
how quickly they forget he was abig part of his success those last four
games last year. I mean,it's just all offseason people have been we
gotta get rid of this guy.And maybe with at the end of the

(01:49:00):
season, then I think it's safeto say if he struggles again that okay,
he's not the answer. But hiscalm down the offensive line was awful.
And you know, I don't knowthat Matt Castle's any better than christ
and Ponder. Let's find out andif he's not the guy, then address
it. But you at least haveto give him a chance. My god,
Yeah, no, I agree,And I mean there was that that

(01:49:23):
passed when he was like just whatthere was one what was he thinking pass
when he was that was the onehe was trying to throw out of bounds,
and Billy couldn't figure out what hewas trying to do. He was
clearly going to throw the ball ata bounce. Oh okay, because he
had you know, he was wayback. He was just scrambling a bit.
But if you're a quarterback, youhave to know if you're gonna get
it out of bounds or not,or you're gonna be at risk of an
interception, you know, because oh, yeah, no, it's just it

(01:49:45):
wasn't It wasn't as absurd Billick madeit seem. Yeah, I mean,
yeah, he probably at that pointhe probably should have just eaten the sack,
but he was trying to throw itaway. And I can't believe Billick,
who has a Super Bowl ring fromcoaching, couldn't figure out what he
was trying to to do when itwas painfully obvious. My favorite line from
Billick those is when Ponder I can'tremember the exact play, like ponders me

(01:50:06):
chased down and sacked or something,and he goes, that's a quarterback's worst
nightmare. And I mentioned on myTwitter feed, I'm just like, no,
I actually think a quarterback's worst nightmarefootball related is he tears an acl
or he breaks the neck or somethinglike that, you know, or the
last play of the game or oneof last places of a game and you're

(01:50:26):
on the way to the super Bowland you're Brett Farve and you throw an
ill advised pass and you completely sabotageyour team's chance of gettings like that's that's
the worst. This was game one, quarter one, or two, and
it was not that big of adeal. It just I can do without
those. I'll die if I hearanother announcer exaggerate. I could kill myself
if I hear another announcer It's like, you don't need to do that.

(01:50:47):
Just that's not a good situation fora quarterback. That's fine, Hit the
mute button and you'll enjoy the gameone. Yes, yeah, exactly,
Jason. Thanks always a pleasure.I'm gonna go work on my newsletter.
You do that, and I'm gettingreturn calls that kept coming in during your
show for some reason. Huh cool, sound good? All right? Thanks
uh. Members of dot and pibodedTorch VPP joining up so much time.

(01:51:09):
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10 YRS AGO - FLAGSHIP: Keller & Powell talk the return of Goldust, viewership analysis, Triple H's digs at Edge not drawing a dime, more

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}10 YRS AGO - FLAGSHIP: Keller & Powell talk the return of Goldust, viewership analysis, Triple H's digs at Edge not drawing a dime, more