10 YRS AGO FLAGSHIP: Keller & Powell look ahead to Summerslam including Lesnar-Taker angle, Seth-Cena-Authority dynamic, more

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
You don't have to wait for the Way Keller Pro
Wrestling post show to find out what I thought of
Monday Night Raw and SmackDown. Each week, you can check
out my reports that are updated live throughout Raw and
SmackDown at pwtorch dot com. My written report will tell
you what's happening in detail in case you missed the show,
and it will also analyze key segments and give my
random thoughts quips on what I am watching as it airs.

(00:26):
So check it out every Monday night and Tuesday night
at pewtorch dot com. That also applies to wwepayperviews. I
cover those live at pw torch dot com with a
detailed written report with star ratings. And of course you
can find other TV reports from other contributors to pw
torch such as nxt roh, Impact Wrestling and more. Check
it out pwtorch dot com your first stop for TV

(00:49):
and pay per view written reports. Now, PW Torch and

(01:12):
Spreaker bring you the Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast. Ten
years ago this week on the Flagship, I was joined
by Jason Powell for Progressing dot Net and we talked
about big happenings on Raw the night before, we looked
ahead to SummerSlam, including the brock Lesner Undertake, Rangel, the
Seth Rollins, John Cena, Authority, Dynamic, and a wide range

(01:33):
of other topics. This originally live streamed on August eighteenth,
twenty fifteen, and it is today's Wade Keller Progressling podcast
ten years ago Flakeship Flashback for Sunday, August seventeenth, twenty
twenty five. Welcome to the ep W Torch Live Cast.

(01:55):
I am Wade Keller, editor and publisher of the Pro
Wrestling Torch weekly new letter since nineteen eighty seven, and
also pwtorch dot com, the website since nineteen ninety nine,
the PW Torch and MMA Torch apps in the iOS
app Store for Apple and the Google Play Store, and
host of this the PW Torch Live Cast, available live

(02:18):
and on demand at PW torch livecast dot com. That's
p W torch livecast dot com. You can also subscribe
to us in iTunes and many other popular podcast apps.
I am joined on Tuesday here Tuesday, August eighteenth, twenty fifteen.
As I was gonna say, as usual, but it hasn't

(02:39):
been usual lately. I'm joined by Jason Powell Ofprowrestling dot Net.
It is our first time in three weeks together, Jason,
because last week it was you and Bruce I was
on a personal matter, out on a personal matter, and
the week before that, I believe it was a vacation.
Oh no, it's a birthday for you. So Jim Valley
joined me, and so it's been three weeks since we've
actually been on the show to talk, so hopefully our

(03:00):
conversation is fresh as a result of that.

Speaker 2 (03:02):
Yeah, no kidding.

Speaker 3 (03:03):
A lot has happened in the last couple of weeks
or last few weeks, I guess it would be. And well,
we have that little thing called SummerSlam to talk about you.

Speaker 1 (03:10):
Oh boy, do we ever? And last night's Raw you
were able to attend Raw in person. I did not,
So I am actually curious to talk to you about
the live experience. I know brock Lesner today has been
raving about the experience of being at Target Center getting
that level of innovation. I just want to start off.

(03:33):
I'm sure you talked about this already on your audio
for Progressing dot net members, but what was that ovation
like for brock Lesner?

Speaker 3 (03:41):
It was an absolute standing ovation. It was a prolonged ovation.
It was a hero's welcome, you know, it was it
was the hero coming home. It you know, I'm sure
you can find you know, Rick Flair returning, whether it's
his Charlotte home maybe Minneapolis as well. Even I find
it comparable. It wasn't like the greatest ovation of all time.

(04:03):
You know, it wasn't the Rock returning to WWE. But
it was just a very respectful crowd, very excited to
see Brock lesnar.

Speaker 1 (04:11):
And I mean, Brock's been talking today on ESPN about
how the ovation he got when he beat Heath Hearing
at the USC event, his debut USC fight in Minneapolis,
his home market, that it was a different experience. And
I kind of joked on my audio last night and
in my raw report that you know, being there, Brock
got a really nice ovation at Target Center, But he did.

(04:31):
It wasn't the type of obey. It wasn't the type
of ovation that Brock could appreciate, because, as I said,
Brock looked a little more relaxed last night to me
than he did in person. At the USC event. I
was sitting, you know, in the media row. Somebody walked
right past me and I have pictures of him that
I you know, I took pictures of him, and I
remember I know those pictures because I framed him for

(04:53):
the torch, you know, to put on the websites MMA
torch dot com and PW torch dot com. And yeah,
he just he looked totally different. I have that look
in my mind of a guy who's determined to destroy
his opponent, nervous about getting punched or losing. And that
was so different than his walk to the ring. There's
a spring in his step and he was almost glowing,
and like he said, he had never experienced anything like that.

(05:16):
I guess my question to you, Jason, is how different
or what does that mean in the big picture or
is it just sort of a Minneapolis thing. I mean,
I know Daniel Bryant got a nice ovation last week
and was in Seattle, and it was like, well, yeah.

Speaker 3 (05:33):
Of course, EVERT don't pull a wwe oh Everett, Yes.

Speaker 1 (05:37):
Oh thank you? At least I didn't. Yeah. I get
mad at people saying that they're in Minneapolis when they're
actually in Saint Paul for a Minnesota wild game. So
I should be careful in Everett, Washington. And and you know,
people are like, well, you know, that's good, but you
can imagine WWE personnel going ah, but it's this home market.
You know, he wouldn't have been as big elsewhere. I'm
sure that's a case with Brock, but it does say

(05:59):
something about the upside of Brock being the baby lead
babyface in this company. It's just too bad. He'd rather
be farming than wrestling, as he said today.

Speaker 3 (06:09):
Well, yeah, you also have to wonder if he were
a full time guy. You know, I'm not saying like
he wouldn't be over, but you know, would he be
over to the level he is without all the breaks
in between Himan. There's times where I think it works
against him where he's on a roll and then it's
time for a break and you kind of lose that momentum.
He always gets it back. I was also at that

(06:31):
UFC show, and I would say the reaction was comparable,
but there was nervousness in that crowd too. Certainly there
was with Brock because it was like the big you know,
heroes welcome, but it was also like he's oh and
one in UFC. He'd won that one fight outside of
UFC in LA And for Brock, I think he was.
You know, it's like he loses this one if you

(06:52):
would have lost that fight to Heath Herring all of
a sudden, he's oh and two.

Speaker 2 (06:55):
There was a lot on the line for brock Lesnar, so.

Speaker 3 (06:58):
I totally can understand why he just really didn't get
to enjoy that as much.

Speaker 1 (07:03):
Absolutely, How did Brock's pop compare to John Cena, Roman
Reigns and Randy Orton hitting the RKO? I guess it
would be probably the big three reactions last night, unless
there's another one I'm not thinking.

Speaker 3 (07:15):
Of, you know, believe it or not. The Dolph Ziggler
reaction was really strong too, I mean it peaked. I
would say, you know, the biggest difference is is just
the length you know that that crowd I think was
just ready to hear brock Lesner as long as they would,
you know, as long as he would stand there and
soak it up. Where the other guys it was more
kind of your standard fare. But Dolf I just remember

(07:36):
it one like kind of reaching for my ear at
one point. It just the initial pop was so strong
for him, but Brock was clearly the most over guy there.

Speaker 1 (07:45):
How was Roman Rains' reaction when he came out and
during the match, and you know in the end when
they're building up to pop, you know, big spots for him.

Speaker 3 (07:54):
It coming out, there's that anticipation, everybody kind of looking like,
which which way is he coming out? You know, where
which concourse is he coming out of? Which isisle?

Speaker 1 (08:03):
And it was the right of the entrance stage and
to the right of the ring if you're opposite of him. Yeah,
I had time every time I think, oh good.

Speaker 3 (08:13):
And you know, but people once that, I mean there
were some booze. There were definitely some scattered booze in there,
but it was mostly positive and then once the match started,
it was weird. I thought with the booze, we might
hear more cheering for Luke Harper than we did, and
instead it was kind of people kind of settled in.
Dean Ambrose kept them entertained. I don't know if it

(08:34):
was during the commercial break by going and sitting on
the ring steps and having a stare down with Bray
Wyatt and the match I think kind of overstated it's
welcome a little bit. But people really got up for
that finish. They really liked the finish of Harper knowing
for that discus clothesline and instead being hit by Roman
Rans with the Superman punching the spear that people really
pop for that.

Speaker 1 (08:54):
You can support us on Patreon and get these shows
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(09:17):
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And it seemed like the our. And you've been to
a lot of live events over the year where Randy
Orton's been there. I thought on television, the pop for
Randy Orton's RKO when he did it is more than
it was a couple years ago. And I'm crediting the

(09:38):
you know, rkout of Nowhere viral video for kind of
making that bigger. Did that seem like it was almost
an out of proportion pop for a rather you know,
predictable movie you would expect to see in that match.

Speaker 2 (09:49):
It was a little bit strange. It was a big pop.

Speaker 3 (09:52):
I wonder what it would have been had he actually
hit it on Kevin Owens is. I haven't had a
chance to go back and watch Ross, so I don't
know how it looked on vision, but I was talking
with her buddy Bryan Fritz about it just to see
you all right. Was there some sort of mishap there
at the end he went It looked like he thought
he was going to hit the RKO on Owens and
Owens was supposed to shove him off. Yeah, And so

(10:13):
I don't know if Owens didn't do a good enough
job of shoving him off, or if Randy really thought
he was supposed to hit the move but he ended
up then hitting the move on Seamus.

Speaker 2 (10:22):
Yeah, and I mean the place was loud.

Speaker 3 (10:24):
And I think there's definitely something what you're saying there
about just that arko out of nowhere phenomenon. I do
think it's it's gained some steam. It's always been a
popular move. But watching that way, did you were you
able to kind of figure out a was there a
mishap and be if there was whose fault it was.

Speaker 1 (10:40):
You know, I haven't gone back to watch it a
second time, but I need to because I know it's
something that people have been asking me about. So yeah,
I'm just gonna to deserve comment. I'll comment on it,
I'm sure on the Keller Hotline or maybe even during
the show here I'll replay it and give another look,
because that's something I meant to do. This afternoon, I
rewatched some of Raw, but I just was looking away
during that match. Apparently I usually have Raw on in
the background, you know, on Tuesday afternoons, just kind of

(11:04):
listen in on stuff I might have missed, and it's
just sort of good background while I'm working. So but yeah,
I didn't watch that yet. Okay, well let's get into actually,
you know what, We're gonna get it aroun a moment,
and we're gonna get into some questions that listeners are
sending in. If you are listening to us on delay,
you are of course listening to us on delay because

(11:25):
blog talk has and I put this on my Twitter
account at the Wade Keller and at PW Torch. I
even did a screen capture of it. It said service status
investigating network outages, some hosts and listeners may be experiencing delays.
Engineers are on the case, so I'm keeping an eye
on that. We are recording the show as usual at
the normal time, but recording it in talking via Skype

(11:46):
and recording it separately from Blogtalk. We're gonna be editing
that this in after the fact. So most people listening
to this show until I said this don't even know that,
because most people don't listen to us live, they listen
on delay. That said, I have to say that because
that's why we're not taking live calls yet. And if
blog Talks problems last for the entire hour, this will
be a show without life calls. But I did put

(12:06):
on Twitter that we are taking email questions right now
from people who normally would be listening live if they
had topics they were looking forward to talking to us about.
So the normal listeners who also follow us on Twitter
are having a chance sending questions. So we'll get to that.
But I want to get to this early, Jason. I
know you've got a announcement is regarding progressling dot net membership,

(12:27):
and we should get to that early here, and then
we'll move back to talking about some of the big
angles on Raw last night, including an email question that
just came in from Will on that opening segment. But
go ahead with as Stephanie said, it's like Christmas morning, Jason,
everybody's on the edge excited to hear what you have
to say.

Speaker 3 (12:46):
Pro Wrestling dot NEM membership special right now, there's a
lot going on. I got to get you more than
just that, but it's one dollar for one month membership
section at Pro Wrestling dot need were also in the
must read section. Just look for that Pro Wrestling dot
Net memberships say a one dollar for one month and
it will instruct you on how you can take advantage
of this special. Get that coupon code, go through the

(13:07):
signup process very simple, and you'll be all set up
for Summer Slam weekend and beyond. And then I also
got to tell you guys about the assuming things get
resolved with logtok this week. Pro Wrestling dot Net Live
is returning on Thursday afternoon at three pm Central for
Eastern time.

Speaker 2 (13:24):
We're scheduled for one hour shows.

Speaker 3 (13:26):
We have the flexibility of going a little bit longer,
but we've the dot net staffers are going to join me.
Will prove it on Thursday, Zach. Actually it's John Moore
on Friday. I believe Saturday is the only show that's
not going to be live, and it's going to be
our British Invasion with Hayden Gleed and Darren Gutteridge discussing
all things SummerSlam weekend, Ring of Honor, NXT, all of

(13:46):
that good stuff and getting you ready for SummerSlam. And
then we're back live on Sunday, same time, three Central
for Eastern and that is going to be Zach Zerman
and I discussing the NXT show, getting you ready for SummerSlam,
of course. And then Monday after SummerSlam, it'll be our
last live special, and that one is going to be
co hosted by Just Incredible. I'm looking forward to getting

(14:08):
his analysis on SummerSlam, and I'm not sure if he's
checking out the NXT show. I'll be surprised if he doesn't,
But your phone calls will be welcome. All you have
to do for that one is you can find all
the details, of course at pro Wrestling dot net, but
follow us it or check out our blog talk page,
blog talk radio dot com, Slash pro Wrestling d O
t An e t SO plenty of live audio. We

(14:29):
won't interfere, of course with the live cast at different times,
and so you can probably listen to them almost back
to back and get a great one two punch for
a good chunk of the summer Slam weekend. And so again,
check out the membership right the membership sale and get
the details on Pro wrestling dot Net. Live on the
main page at pro wrestling dot net, and if you

(14:49):
have any questions, follow me on Twitter ask them there
at Pro wrestling Net.

Speaker 1 (14:54):
So Thursday through Monday, every single day for Eastern one
Pacific live on the air most of those days. But
people can listen live at least every day except Saturday,
and you're taking calls every day but Saturday. But people
can listen live for Eastern one Pacific Thursday, Friday, Saturday,
Sunday and Monday. Did I get that right? You got
very cool?

Speaker 2 (15:14):
All right?

Speaker 1 (15:15):
I instinctively was going to say, back to the phone lines,
we go, but instead to the emails we go here
at pw torslivecast dot com. Will En says I was
astounded at the sheer awfulness of last night's Raw opening
segment between the Heale Authority hard selling the to the
av mistiming to the seriously awkward transition to the tag match.

(15:36):
It was a disaster from start to finish. I think
we're all tired of twenty minute promost to start the show,
but at least they're just mediocre. Last night was aggressively bad.
So my question to you guys, can you think of
another comparably bad opening segment for Raw Boy? I sure
don't like to keep lists like that in my head
of awful things, but I will say this while I

(15:57):
kind of think if there's any any others that come
to mind the idea of opening a program with two
characters who are by design smarmy Stephanie more than Hunter,
but by design acting smarmy and patronizing, representing the WWB brand,
trying to sell you something their network and getting what

(16:19):
should be a huge pop by talking about their main
revenue source, well, I mean it's right there with TV
and how Show own merchandise sales combined. I mean, those
are the big three, and the network is right there
as why they exist, why everybody, why they can afford
to turn the lights on in the arenas, and they
get Jason. It seemed to me you're there live a

(16:41):
rather tepid response to the mentions of WWE network because
they're heels and they're talking to you like your children
or peons compared to them. It doesn't work having heel
authority figures, selling the network, representing the brand, and then
pitching SummerSlam and I knew. I get that they rationalized

(17:01):
by saying, hey, we're breaking news. We're going to tell
you about RAW, We're setting the stage for RAW. We
were talking about Summer Slam, and you know, kind of
laying things out there. We've got the graphics to go
along with it, and it kind of felt like kind
of cheesy music given the circumstances to go along with it.
Put aside the botched lining up the pictures to the words,
it felt like a dry rehearsal. It felt like a

(17:24):
rehearsal and off air rehearsal that was done by stand
ins who weren't really the people who were talented enough
and engaging enough to do it. So I'm kind of
with Will. I think he disliked it more than I did,
because I get the purpose of doing it and the
and the conundrum that they're in given that they have
chosen to be heel authority figures. But that was that
was pretty ballsy of them as heels to step out

(17:46):
there and do a pitch. I mean, if you, Jason,
if you're just an asshole all the time on the
show and you know, and played sort of quick played
the heel but people weren't quite sure. And then you go, hey,
support my sale, but you know, spend money on my
product and listen more to me. I mean, I just
be like, all right, let's get through this because this
isn't gonna work, you know, I mean, I don't get it.
So anyway, over to.

Speaker 3 (18:06):
You it okay, I agree with everything you guys are saying. Well,
I sided with you more. I didn't mind it as
much as the emailer in this case. But yeah, I
mean it's the ongoing issue. I don't know why they
are heels at this point. There's really no storyline with
them that requires them to be heal. Yeah, they protect

(18:27):
seth Rollins once in a while, but wait, I mean,
it seems like they're lining him up with tougher opponents
than way more than they ever did in the past.
I don't even know that they are heels in their
mind anymore. Yeah, so just make the switch. I guess
the thing I liked about it they did at the
top of the show. It's a segment that most people
aren't just going to turn the channel for, and they're

(18:48):
used to something happening there at the top of the show,
and so even if they're like, what is this, they
don't do it often. It made Summer the Lamb feel
special yep, and the live crowd, yeah, you know, the
whole network thing. I think people just kind of see
the sales pitch coming and zone out a little bit.
But they did all chant nine to ninety nine that
that is still over even though they don't drive that

(19:09):
home nearly as much as they used to.

Speaker 1 (19:10):
I think fans would chant cut off my big toes
in poor hot Tabasco sauce on it if it was
catchy enough and they saw it enough on television. True,
you know, I mean, like, there's just something about being
at a wrestling sho where you want a chant stuff.
I mean, I just want I mean, of course it's
nice that it's only nine ninety nine.

Speaker 3 (19:26):
Hey, there were a bunch of like, you know, forty
and fifty year old dads also yelling woom. There it
is at the end of our trus match for Superstars,
So no.

Speaker 1 (19:36):
All right, that just clears my brain of any logical thoughts.

Speaker 4 (19:40):
And I.

Speaker 5 (19:43):
Need an extra dose of positivity in your wrestling podcasts.
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Speaker 1 (20:49):
No No, And I think I'm glad you made that
point because it is a good point. They don't do
that very often. And if Hunter and you're right hundred
steph are moving more neutral. And that's why I said
Steph is whether Stephanie's a heel or a babyface. She's smarty,
you know, I mean, that's that's her thing, Like, oh,
it's a Christmas morning, I'm rich and famous, and I
flew a helicopter to Minneapolis and landed and it took

(21:10):
kids on rides. That's a Trump reference in politics. And
now I'm here to bestow upon you my Princess Stephanie's
declaration of entertainment that you will soon enjoy. Like she
still has that way about her. That's not how she
is in real life, but her on air character still
has that aspect to it. Hunter kind of sometimes Jason
comes across like she's my wife. She wears the pants.

(21:32):
I'm just here to not along and you know, and
then I can't wait to get back to NXT where
I can be the alpha and do good things and
not be part of this fiasco. I can get that
vibe sometimes from him. I don't want to, you know,
overstate it, but you are right. I like that they're
moving away from Seth being their guy to Seth being
a guy that they gave everything too. But now they've
sent him off to college and he's got a fend

(21:54):
for himself for his own grades. And that's kind of
how it comes across. And we'll talk about the scene promo,
but you know that that's what comes across me. We've like,
we've done what we can to get you the scholarship,
or we've done what we can to get you accepted
into this top college. Now you got to go make grades.
And they had been doing that and I like that.
And having the music and running down the lineup of
the show was in a way novel. You know, we're

(22:16):
not used to that, and it made SummerSlam feel special.
I think at most twice a year you would do it,
maybe maybe three, you know, with a Rumble, but there's
not enough matches on the Rumble at three hours with
one with you know, an hour match eating up more
you know, a third of the show to even necessarily
do or something like that. But so mixed feelings. I'm
not as Yeah, I'm not with will On saying it

(22:37):
was the worst of all times. But you throw in
the issue and I don't know if you where your
eyes were, Jason, But on the big screen, they were
putting stuff up that was timed wrong before Stephen Hunter
hit their cues.

Speaker 3 (22:49):
They definitely, yeah, I noticed that. I didn't know if
that was making television or not. I thought, maybe it's
just okay, there's something with the screen and they're not
showing that on TV.

Speaker 2 (22:56):
But I definitely caught that.

Speaker 1 (22:58):
Yes, And I bet somebody got a just kussing. So yeah,
I mean, I mean we can move on.

Speaker 2 (23:05):
I mean, you know, well real quick, did they tell me?

Speaker 3 (23:08):
They didn't show the moment when they left the ring
and they went to ringside and approached a young girl. No,
no good, because the reason I asked is because they
they never acknowledged the girl. It was just something that
you know, I was hoping was done off camera. I
didn't notice cameras pointing at them. I'm guessing make a wish,
don't know for sure, but they both took time to

(23:29):
walk over to this girl. They both leaned in and
looked like Stephanie maybe even given the girl a kiss,
and there was yeah, no acknowledgment of it.

Speaker 2 (23:36):
If you saw it, you saw it.

Speaker 3 (23:37):
They weren't trying to draw attention, and so assuming it
was a situation like that I thought it was. It
was classy and handled very well.

Speaker 1 (23:44):
All right, cool, okay, let's go to another question about
raw emails are coming in. This is Vince b. He says,
highway to Jason. On the plus side, my phone bill
will be smaller still as looking forward to talking to
both of you. I have two situations. I feel ww
we missed an opportunity to enhance in terms of turning
Undertaker will giving help to elevate the current generation something
that feels of ut most importance. One Bray should have

(24:07):
defeated an Undertaker. I thought so then, and with this
version of the dead man who isn't confident enough at
his abilities that now he has to resort to low
blows and jumping managers, it makes more sense than ever
the man with the unbeaten streak searching for his final
victory would have added to Taker's reasoning, and needless to say,
it would have done wonders for Bray. Wyatt Number two,
Seth should have been the one to bring back Undertaker

(24:28):
I'm not saying Taker needed to join the Authority or
become affiliated in any way with Rowlins, but with Seth
being the architect, this evil mastermind who built and tore
down the Shield and manipulated Scena to bring him back
the Authority, it would have fit his character that he
would have gotten into Cain's brother's ear because of the
Caine affiliation. This would have instantly clarified Undertaker was a
villain and made Seth Rowins seem like a dangerous champion

(24:50):
willing to go to any lengths to hold onto his title. Okay,
so first I want to say that's more fantasy booking.
It enters around with fantasy booking. And so when you
say should they have done this, there's two hundred things
they could have done, three hundred things, four hundred things.
We could sit down if we had to. If someone
set a bowl of chocolate shop cookies in front of

(25:12):
me and said, come up with two hundred ways to
introduce or do things differently with Undertaker, and those cookies
are yours, I could come up with one hundred and
two hundred whatever you want me to do. So I
don't want to say that's the one thing that would
work out of you know, all the options. There's many
things we could creatively come up with and give a
thumb up er thumbs down to. So the question is
and should they have done both of those things? Very specifically,
although Undertaker Bray is a little bit more binary thumbs

(25:32):
up thumbs down, But Jason, just in general, do you
like the ideas? Is how I want to put it.
Not is that what you would have done out of
the two hundred brainstorms we had? But where we are
now because I'm trying to make this palatable for us
because fantasy booking is kind of tough to break down.
But should Bray have defeated Undertaker or would that have

(25:53):
weakened Undertaker too? Because my kind of counter thought here,
Jason is yeah, but how impress it? How how big
does this match feel? If Undertaker lost his last two matches?
Now is resorting to cheating tactics and WWE's billing this
as a huge monumental fight and it's I mean, I
don't know if Anderson Silva is the greatest example, but

(26:15):
I mean I sort of think if you want to
move Anderson Silva to a pay per view main event
for a title against Widman. You got to have him
look good, like really good in his previous fight, and
I'm not sure that the DS fight does that. So
it's the best example I can come up with of
a legend with a huge streak who's looked weak two
out of three times. Do you really want Undertaker to
look weak two times in a row and then try

(26:35):
to sell him against a beast like Lesner Number one?

Speaker 3 (26:37):
I always have to say I would not have ended
the streak. That's that the Ray Witt No, and it's
a very simple reason. They don't see what Vince. I
believe it was the emailer what he sees him Braywhite,
And if they're not going to invest fully in the
guy that beat Undertaker, then you don't do it. And

(26:59):
so he may have a lot of things that he
would have liked to have done with bray Waite coming
out of that. They clearly didn't And so no, he
was not the guy to be Undertaker. I do think
he could have been the guy to beat John Cena,
but I also feel the same way about Russev at Wrestlemannia,
and they didn't do that either.

Speaker 2 (27:14):
What was it?

Speaker 1 (27:15):
Let me let me gessk a follow up, and then
we'll go to the second scenario he had. If it's not,
let's focus less on Bray for a moment, even though
that's not really fair because your analysis very rightfully included him.
But in general, would it have made more sense for
Undertaker to go heal had he lost two matches? Setting
aside my caveat or my concern is probably a better
term that it would weaken Undertaker too much for the

(27:37):
Lessner fight to seem big enough for SummerSlam. But would
it have at least made more sense to have Undertaker
lose twice before deciding I have to go heal?

Speaker 3 (27:50):
No, I see, I don't even I don't even know that.
I don't think Undertaker is a heel? Is he for
this match? Is he taking short cuts? Is I almost
I don't know how they sold it on television last night.
They didn't do a good job of really getting over
the low blow when he did it the first time
to Brock at the last at the Last Live special,
I just look at I think what they're trying to

(28:11):
maybe's the heel last night for that lot, for that crowd,
to the masses out there, I still think it's a
pick your guy you know, you go ahead and choose
because at the end, at the end of this it
the road leads to WrestleMania. It's in Texas. Are you
really going to have Undertaker be a heel in his
home state? I just don't think it makes any sense.

Speaker 1 (28:32):
I know, I well, to me, like putting, I thought
it would have been really special for Lesnar for Summer
Flame to be at Target Center this year because they
could have done Takers straight up babyface. Lesner would have
been cheered and it wouldn't to matter. It wouldn't hurt
Taker's feelings because it's Lesner's home state. Of course he
got cheered, were world Yeah yeah, well now yeah, I
mean in a way. But I mean they're both baby faces,

(28:53):
so in a sense, it's not even necessarily bizarro. It's
just well, given a fifty to fifty choice between two
legendary babyfaces the homes, if Takers in Texas Taker gets
cheered Lesner's and Minnesota Lesner gets cheered, I think that
would take away the ego brews of putting them in
a neutral environment and having the crowdside with Lesner. I
think Take or doing low Blows might not be a

(29:15):
heel turn as much as it's a way to save
his ego in case, and not that he has a
super sensitive ego, but like just I could imagine other
people and we need to protect the legend of Taker.
Let's create an excuse for Lesnar to get cheered by
having take or be the guide using some tactics that
would cause people to boo him, not cheer him that
and then we can do whatever we're going to do afterwards.

(29:35):
I'm intrigued with whatever they do afterwards, depending on what
the finish is, who wins and how. But I think
even outside of Minnesota now, based on the way Taker's
been portrayed, Lesner's going to get the most cheers by far.

Speaker 3 (29:53):
And keep in mind, this is what we're now entering
Hayman Country and in the New York area too. I
think that only helps brock Lesner. I mean, I don't
know that like last night, they were easy w chance
when he was making his way to the ring in
the dark and people spotted him. Yeah, but that Haman's
very over with that adult male portion of the crowd especially,

(30:16):
and I think they will be mind large the people's
filling Barclay Center too, And so yeah, I think also,
most signs do point to this being a very heavy
brock Lesner crowd with you might be absolutely right on
that way, that this is their way of kind of
justifying it in their own minds that well, you know,
we're giving them reasons to We're telling the crowd how

(30:37):
to react, as Vince likes to claim.

Speaker 2 (30:39):
Right.

Speaker 1 (30:40):
Yeah, yeah, so it'll be intriguing how that goes, all right.
The second part of his question had to do with
whether Seth could have been the one to bring back
Undertaker to really define him as a heal and have
Caine be kind of the intermediary.

Speaker 3 (30:54):
I would like to see Seth and tak Her at WrestleMania,
So you know, I'd like to see then match, I think,
especially if it's Taker's last ride at WrestleMania, I think
Seth's a safe opponent for him in multiple ways. Number One,
he can give Taker a very memorable match. You know,
Seth is brilliant in the rink. He can create all

(31:15):
that movement. Number Two, he can lose the Taker. It
may not be that my god, who's gonna win type thing,
but if it's Undertaker's last match, people just want to
see him go over and they can create some fun
drama with some good near falls and things like that
during the match, and Seth's not going to lose anything
because it's Seth. And if he comes back and he's
just a weasel after the fact, people are going to

(31:36):
forget very quickly, and so it's not a storyline wise,
would it have made sense, Yeah, he had issues with
Taker's brother and everything else. Sure, but I don't think
that matches his marquee without it being Undertaker's last match.
I even with the WWE World Heavyweight Championship in there,
it would mean something, but there's still something special about

(31:58):
Taker and Lesner.

Speaker 1 (31:59):
Yes, all right, Jason, I see the studio lit up
for blog talk. The warning message is still there, but
we do have callers on hold, so we have now
shifted into the live portion of the program. The block
Talk studios are back up and running. Welcome to the
PW Torch live cast, those of you who are listening
to us live at about six thirteen Eastern on Tuesday,

(32:25):
August eighteenth, twenty fifteen. We welcome your phone calls at
six four six seven two one nine eight two eight.
I do want to note we have a couple sponsors
on the program we're talking about, one of whom is
Direct TV and they have a special thanks for downloading
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(32:48):
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And also here the the VIP exclusive shows that I
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(33:09):
vip here in twenty twenty two and enjoy all the benefits,
all the bonus content and the ad free listening experience.
Pw torch dot com slash go vip. Jason Powell and
I just had a nice conversation for over a half
hour without any live listeners because we weren't sure if
the blogtalk technical issues would solve themselves in time, so

(33:30):
we just did the show as usual but without the
live audience and took your email questions. And now we
are going to try to take some phone calls and
continue our conversation with you guys leading the way for
the most part, because we covered some of the big
topics from Jason Paul being live in the building last
night for RAW in Minneapolis at Target Center. You can

(33:51):
hear the whole show if you're listening to us live
about a half hour to an hour after the show
goes off the air, it should be available in edited
format at PW torch live cast dot com, and of course,
the ad free expanded version, including the VIP exclusive after show,
will be made available to PW Torch VIP members tonight
also and also Pro Wrestling dot Net members. Jason with

(34:12):
the flow here, mind us all the usual stuff that
we do at the beginning of a live portion of
the show, because our live portion is starting late and
we're just gonna start taking some phone calls and let
you guys leave the way. If you hit a topic
that Jason and I covered in the lead up to
our ability to go live and take calls, we will
tell you that and give you a chance to ask
a different topic, or we'll just move on and we're
gonna begin with aera code four seven eight, and then

(34:34):
on deck will be international one to one. Uh so,
hold tight over there four seven eight. Thanks for joining
us today on PW torchlivecast dot com. Please state your
name in the city you're calling from.

Speaker 6 (34:44):
From Georgia.

Speaker 1 (34:46):
Hey, de Role from Georgia. What have you got for
Jason to me?

Speaker 6 (34:48):
Okay, I want to I wanted to get your opinion,
you and Jason opinion. I asked the question last night
and I want to ask it to see you guys tonight.
I like what Johnsend and them did all Monday, and
my question is with what do you guys think about
them using seth rollins as an indicator for including to

(35:13):
carry on Triple A's legacy and they're bringing that to
the storyline and how do you think that. Are they
going to use that to continue to progress the Wallers
and use that to build up the title if he can,
if he keeps the title and just use that every
time he visit, is building old trivile ATE's legacy.

Speaker 1 (35:35):
Great question, Derell, Jason. We did not talk about that yet,
so that's good. I liked that aspect of the John
Cena promo that brought into the discussion something WWE doesn't
really spend a lot of time talking about at least
not since Triple H hasn't been kind of a full
time active wrestler and the Dudleys haven't been around a
break about their threey two and seventy five title reigns.
They talked about what it means for John Cena to

(35:56):
win UH and unify the title and and Seth's reign
and makes su I like, you know, we talked about Seth,
I'm gonna injury. You can come back from injuries, but
you'll never come back from being a footnote, a footnote
to history. Who did John Cena be to for number sixteen?
So I did like that aspect of it, and I
kind of liked the Flare to Hunter Hunter to Seth transition.

(36:17):
How about you?

Speaker 2 (36:19):
I did?

Speaker 7 (36:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (36:20):
I think it opened the door creatively to a couple
of things that, well, the Flair thing probably won't happen.
I mean, I've had this pipe dream that they do
build up Sina and Flair actually being the guy that
costs him, but we just haven't seen much of Rick Flair.
I think it would get more cheers in WW. We
probably wants in that scenario anyway, But Triple H could

(36:42):
he be the guy that somehow interferes and either it
leads to a DQ or it leads to wrong World
Championship as well done. I thought seeing his promo was
very strong, you know, it was he he definitely stammered
more than usual, but get up to maybe some rustiness
weight or maybe even some discomfort with that nose.

Speaker 1 (37:01):
I was thinking discomfort with the nose because on tough
Enough last week he sounded a little nasally. And he's
got just such a busy schedule that he's been. I mean,
I know he had some time off from working matches
and so in that sense maybe he should be refreshed,
but I mean, just such a busy media week coming up,
and so much pressure leading into that, with everything he's

(37:21):
doing with the Today Show and you know, all the
pre stuff they do for SummerSlam. But it did seem
like something wasn't all completely there. He's not one to stumble,
and I think he stumbled maybe twice, but it wasn't
a big enough deal that had someone not drawn my
attention to it, you know, while it was going on,
that I would have thought, oh wow, you know, like
on Twitter, I'd have thought, oh, something's really wrong with

(37:42):
seen it. But it did seem like a little bit
a little a little bit less Swager and Bravado. I
guess was what I would how I would put it.

Speaker 3 (37:49):
Yeah, you know, I think it's really a testament to
how good he normally is with that that you know,
he does it a couple of times and it actually
stands out exactly.

Speaker 1 (37:57):
Yeah. Yeah, I like the history being brought up into
it in a promo. It's something that you know, I
think to a degree we take for granted sometimes because
there was there were times Jason, over the last you know,
thirty years, thirty plus years we've been watching wrestling where
you and I have talked about it and we' written
at aatoros about it or talked to on audio about it.
You know, wrestling needs to honor and acknowledge its history,

(38:17):
and thanks to the Hall of Fame in WWE Network
and sort of the Internet making it impossible for fans
to control what fans know, I think promoters who used
to be all about the hero and now are spending
more time talking about history.

Speaker 2 (38:29):
Now.

Speaker 1 (38:30):
They've always talked about number of title reigns. That has
been something they haven't really shied away from. But I
like when they can take something and have it make sense, like, oh,
Flair pass a torch to Hunter, even though I'm a
little I don't know. I don't think that's exactly how
objective historians look at it. It was more of a
gimmick for Hunter and Evolution to have Flair talk about

(38:51):
how he's the new greatest of all time. Hunter scripted
Flair to say it before anyone else was saying that
Hunter's highly respected. It's not taking away from him, it's
just the idea that Flair was passing the torch to
Hunter during that Evolution era was much more storyline than reality.
Kind of the same thing as the Seth thing, no
more of no more or less of a storyline, Hunter

(39:11):
saying Seth, take my finisher and you can carry on
the legacy. But I did like the way Scena tied
it together. Mostly though I like Sena saying Seth, I'm
going to turn you into a footnote and unlike my nose,
that's something people will never forget and you won't come
back from. I thought that that was a nice and
I liked Hunter and stuff just kind of observing it
with their facial expressions and seeing how Seth took it

(39:33):
in and how he reacted and Seth was seething, but
you know, sat there and listened as you're contractually obligated
to do if you're on wrong.

Speaker 3 (39:41):
I wouldn't tell from watching it in person. Maybe you
can give me the answer in this was Hunter starting
to see as seen As started saying those things about him,
ordered he kind of keep his cool and look more calculated.

Speaker 1 (39:54):
Kept this cool and looked more calculated, would be my
take on it.

Speaker 3 (39:58):
Yeah, okay, Yeah, there was no real foreshadowing that all
of a sudden Hunters like on the verge of you know,
going after scene or anything like that.

Speaker 1 (40:06):
No, he kind of he kind of stood there like
he was greeting people coming into a funeral. I mean,
his hands were he was holding his hands at his
belt level, you know, it was his hand covering his
watch kind of. And he was just just sitting there,
leaning back, listening to what Sina was saying pretty uh,
pretty dispassionately. So yeah, I didn't I didn't sense that

(40:30):
there was an angle coming as much as Hunter. You know,
Hunter's playing the role of I, you know I the
best I'll say, Steph was kind of sneering or snarling,
and Hunter was more I'm going to evaluate, you know what,
I'm just going to take it in and listen, but
really it's up to Seth to earn his grades in college.
I mean, it was, Yeah, I cute it up here,

(40:52):
so I'm kind of watching seeing it now in the
background to be fully fully accurate. Yeah, no, Hunter just
kind of hard blinked and took it in, you know,
just simple kind of said. But it wasn't much body
language or facial expression change. I mean, you know, look
like Sina was his best friend.

Speaker 3 (41:08):
But yeah, yeah, I mean I remember at one point
they laughed with rollins, you know, and it kind of
in a snide way regarding something Sena said, and that
was like the only thing that jumped out in me.
So okay, yeah, there's no foreshadowing there as far as
like Hunter getting involved, unless you just count John Cena's words.
You know, they can always go back to that and
and play on that if they want to. What do

(41:29):
you think is happening there with with what the title
match the title versus title?

Speaker 2 (41:35):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (41:36):
You know what, I I don't know for sure. I'm
actually I I mean, I don't want to know for sure,
So I'm always happy when I don't My hunches Sena's
going to beat Seth Rawlins because they want Sena to
be champion and the lead babyface because they just didn't.
You know, Vince, when you know, when it came time
to send Rains out there to win the title, you know,

(41:57):
he he decided Rains wasn't ready. I don't think he
has been ready since. So I think they since seen
out to be the lead babyface champion again after that show,
and Seth gets a rematch at Night of Champions. I mean,
that's that's my I mean, sometimes we can overthink it
and come up with a lot of things that seem
like they'd be more dramatic and maybe pop business or

(42:18):
get more people talking. But sometimes Vince's wants to create
a lot of scenarios, but then really coming out of
a show, he just wants to go back to his
comfort zone, which is reliable. John Cena still young enough
I think thirty seven, thirty eight years old to be
the centerpiece guy and go into the fall season up
against Monday Night Football with a stronger lead babyface champion.

(42:39):
That's kind of my inclination, but I wouldn't say that
I'm super confident about it.

Speaker 8 (42:48):
In twenty twelve, NXT transitioned into the developmental system and
ultimately the brand you see today. On the Torch VIP
podcast NXT Eight Years Back, we'll be taking a weekly
look at this page in NXT's early history.

Speaker 4 (43:03):
Join Kelly Wells and me Tom Stout from PWT Talks
NXT every Saturday as we go eight years back to
the day to track NXT's rising talents and why they
did or didn't work out, exclusively for PW Torch VIP members.

Speaker 3 (43:19):
I always take the win in doubt, go with scena
approach to these things because you know, it usually pays off.
But I you know, that T shirt theory is interesting,
and he actually had to bring it up last night
and try to downplay it. It's, you know, the fifteen
time shirt just came out and I look at it. Okay,
would they make a shirt for him that says fifteen time? Well,
plans can change, But I wonder is this around the

(43:40):
time that they thought he's going to drop the US championship,
Because if you are the the current US champion, would
you really be wearing a shirt touting your accomplishments as
the world champion? So I think that's interesting. I guess
more than anything. Wait, I don't understand you're this close,
why introduce the T shirt? Why not wait until after

(44:01):
Summer Slam? Either way, I mean, I guess unless it's
just a fire sale, like oh god, we weren't going
to put the title on, let's sell as many of
these as we can.

Speaker 4 (44:09):
I know.

Speaker 1 (44:10):
Yeah, I don't know what to say to that, you know,
I mean, because it could be any one of those things.
I mean, hopefully, hopefully if something we'll maybe find out
a little bit about it's that's that's the kind of
thing that when it happened. Sometimes it's a little bit
of news that comes out about whether people are you know,
in a panic about it or embarrassed by it, or
it's a red herring or turned into a red hearing
because booking plans can change. I mean, if you listen

(44:32):
to people who knew everything two months ago, they were
supposed to be talking about Hunter against Seth Rollins right
now coming.

Speaker 3 (44:37):
Up on Sunday, that's true, Yeah, you know, I mean,
and go ahead, it doesn't really play. I just didn't
want to forget. I found it interesting. We were talking
about brock LESSU in the Park earlier in his popularity
there is. It's it was strange that as as over
as he was, as much as he was the star
of that show, the Suplex City shirt, We're pretty scattered.

(45:01):
It wasn't a big seller. I saw way more johnson
A New merchandise than I did Suplex City shirts.

Speaker 1 (45:07):
Wow. Interesting, Okay, I mean they've been on sale longer,
I guess, But yeah, I mean in a way. I
mean people more likely to buy T shirts. I think,
are you know Sena fans and lesser fans, But I
would think lessner fans would be scooping those up, you know.
I mean that's all, especially the hometown says Minneapolis on there.

Speaker 2 (45:27):
I was surprised by that.

Speaker 1 (45:29):
Absolutely. All right, let's go to our international caller on hold, Derell.
Thank you for that topic. If you just heard of beat,
please state your name in the country you're calling from.

Speaker 2 (45:37):
Hi.

Speaker 9 (45:38):
Hi, I'm Vince. I'm from Finland.

Speaker 1 (45:40):
Vin's from Finland. Thank you so much for calling today.
What have you got for Jason and me?

Speaker 9 (45:44):
Well, I finally get to talk to Jason. I mean, yes,
on different shows quite a lot.

Speaker 1 (45:51):
Wait, I think I just accidentally hung up on Jason.
But go ahead with your question.

Speaker 9 (45:54):
Anyway, No, go ahead? Okay, Yeah, So I sent this
on an email, so I'm just going to read from
here on. I had two situations. I feel the WW
missed an opportunity to enhance how they turned Undertaker. And
number one, I thought back left WrestleMania, I thought then

(46:18):
he should have have Bray beat him, and I think
I would have done more for Bray.

Speaker 1 (46:25):
Okay, Vince, Vince, I hate to do this to you,
but we we actually did your email before he went live.
We covered both, so you're gonna have to listen back
at that because we don't want to repeat it. We
actually spend a dec amount of time on it. But
do you have anything else to say to Jason while
you're here live? What a did you.

Speaker 2 (46:42):
Have a third?

Speaker 1 (46:43):
A separate subject that you want to bring up? Well?

Speaker 9 (46:46):
Well, now, more than ever, I'm really intrigued by what's
going on with will prove it. He just posted very interesting.
I haven't read it yet. I don't know what he
is talking about, but he said, let me quote here.
He said, listener under the leivers. So I have no
idea what that means. So I'm going to go read that.
But otherwise, no, have a good show, and Jason, I'm

(47:09):
maybe going to try next week again with a new topic.

Speaker 1 (47:12):
Well, we like to say now we picked it up. Goh, Jason.

Speaker 3 (47:15):
Yeah, and keep in mind Bench for Wrestling dot need Live.
You can talk to me all you want Thursday, Friday,
Sunday and Monday three pm Central, four eastern. Blog talk
Radio dot Com slash for Wrestling d O T N
E T. I hope to hear from you.

Speaker 9 (47:29):
Well, Plate, sir, weal Plate.

Speaker 1 (47:33):
Thanks, thanks, Vince. We really appreciate it. Jason, Jason, did
you say three eastern or four eastern?

Speaker 3 (47:39):
Just now three Central, four eastern. If I misspoke, I apologize.

Speaker 1 (47:43):
If I misheard, I apologize. So one Pacific, two Mountain,
three Central for eastern. And if you're elsewhere, as Matt
Striker would say, uh, enter in the Google. Still cool,
That is what I said. Enter into the Google the
time zone difference, and you should figure out what time
they're on live at blogtalk Radio. It's blogtalk Radio dot.

Speaker 2 (48:06):
Com wrestling d OTNT.

Speaker 3 (48:10):
Got it, okay, And if anybody can't figure it out,
just go to the main page and I'll have all
that information handy for everybody.

Speaker 2 (48:15):
It'll be just a quick link away.

Speaker 1 (48:17):
Absolutely, yeah, and that's we talked about this during our
pre tape when we weren't live on the air, so
people hearing this mostly will have heard it. But Thursday, Friday, Saturday,
Sunday and Monday, you're live every day except Saturday, which
will be an international pretaped edition, and you're taking callers,
So yeah, give us a called Vince, or give Jason
a called Vince. Keep calling us though, too. We'll be
here tomorrow Wednesday with Pat McNeil hosted show. I'll be

(48:38):
by on Thursday. If you didn't hear, by the way,
last Thursday show interview Thursday featured Mick Foley his debut
on the live cast, a heralded interview already, just every
day there's been people commenting by email and Twitter about
that interview, really enjoying it. I was scrambling to get
in on time, ended up starting the show late last Thursday.

(49:00):
That has not happened very much in our five and
a half years on the air. I'm usually punctual, at
least within two minutes, but just ran into some unexpected
detours on the road that set me back about ten minutes.
So I ended up either doing something wrong with blog
talk because some problems. I still haven't been able to
figure it out, but ended up on speakerphone for the
first uh forty percent of the interview. It gets better

(49:20):
after that. I was typing away with blog Talk trying
to figure out it was m or me because I
had tried to fix it. So I apologize for the
audio quality on my end. The good part is Mick
did most of the talking, and the second half got better,
and it's a really fun interview, and Mick was really
happy with that. He was only going to stay on
for about fifty sixty minutes, ended up volunteering to stay

(49:41):
in extra thirty forty minutes, and we might have gone
longer if I had more time.

Speaker 2 (49:44):
You had that people.

Speaker 1 (49:48):
Thanks, I think, yeah, yeah, and and but it was really,
I mean really, Mick and I talked big picture about
changes and fans, how a fans changed over the years.
Crowd crowd responses with I mean really a wide array
of topics that I don't think you have heard Mick
in any recent podcast appearance, just kind of go in
depth on. So I really encourage you to check that

(50:08):
out over at PW torchlivecast dot com. Just scrolled on
a last Thursday Show. VIP members, of course, can subscribe
to our RSS feed for interviews and get an AD
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(50:32):
information on about seventy plus audio shows per month, covering
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(50:55):
and we're currently in nineteen ninety one, the summer of
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(51:18):
Go to pw torch dot com slash go vip for
full details on signing up and going vip. Let's. Oh
and then Friday, I was kind of middle of plugging
the live cast Friday, Bruce Mitchell, We'll be back. I
believe Travis Bryant is still out of the country, so
Bruce will be back though after missing is it two
weeks in a row now? And he'll be hosting Friday

(51:40):
at seven Eastern at PW torchlivecast dot com. Okay, let's
go back to the phone lines here in our remaining
minutes on the live part of the PW torch live
cast and go to Eric code six one seven and
then on deck is nine one four six one seven.
Thanks for holding and joining us here live today. What
is your what is your name? And where are you
calling from?

Speaker 10 (51:59):
Hey, guys, this is a name from Boston.

Speaker 1 (52:02):
Thanks for Collin Anthony. What have you got for Jason
to me?

Speaker 10 (52:05):
I've been thinking about special attractions in WWE, and it
seems like there's maybe five players in that regard right now,
Rock Brock, Triple h Taker, and I guess Jericho if
they wanted to throw him back on TV at some point.
Do you think it's a big failing on WWE's part
that there aren't more special attractions at this point?

Speaker 1 (52:28):
Oh, that's interesting. I mean Steve Austin if he did,
if he were able to wrestle, would be one. Edge
can't because of injury. You know, Tristratus and Lead aren't
really big enough names. Booker t big name, but not
really big enough, you know, and he's been on TV
a lot. It was kind of roaming through some of
the more recent retirees. Sean Michaels, Jason would qualify, but

(52:51):
he just really doesn't want to come back. Rick Flair
a little too old, kind of damaged hoo. Coogan recently fired.
He was taken off the not WWE's fault. Ultimate Warrior
died obviously. You know that's not something you blame WWE
for in terms of not having Warrior on the roster
in twenty fifteen as a potential you know, comeback, not

(53:12):
that he would in a condition he was in.

Speaker 2 (53:14):
So I don't know.

Speaker 1 (53:14):
Yeah, I mean, looking at all those big names, Jason, yeah,
I mean who jumps out to you? Is anyone missing
on the list? And to Anthony's intriguing question, should WWE
have more people on standby accounting as kind of big legends.
Maybe Goldberg would be out of that list, as you know,
somebody waiting in the wings if WWE got desperate enough.
Anytime you're watching WWE Raw or SmackDown or AEW Dynamite

(53:38):
in particular, send us an email if you've got thoughts
on the show or a topic you want us to
address or a question for us. Wade Keller Podcast at
pwtorch dot com. Wade Keller Podcast at pewtorch dot com.
If there's anything else going on in pro wrestling that
you want us to address on our main podcast during
our mailbank segments, that same email applies Wade Keller Podcast

(53:59):
at PW tor We invite that interaction, let us know
what you think of what we're saying, and let us
know what you want us to talk about and ask
us specific questions. Wade Keller Podcast at PW torts dot com.

Speaker 2 (54:12):
Well, I have themselves to blame in a way.

Speaker 3 (54:16):
I mean it's because they that that era, after the
attitude era, they kind of stayed with the same people
in the in the high positions on the card. They
got Guys like Kurd Angle Jeff Hardy are exceptions. They're
with different they're with a different company right now. That
kind of generation that just never a chance, never really

(54:37):
got we're never really elevated, that we're kind of bypassed.
That's going to hurt them once this current wave of
older guys, you know that the taker types finally do
hang up the boots for good. I don't know who
they go get again, aside from a Jeff Hardy, I
don't know that they'll do business with Kurt maybe Hall
of Fame, but as far as putting him back in
the ring with his medical history, I will be surprised

(55:00):
if it ever happens. They had their chance this year
and didn't Jeff Hardy that I do think it was
the worst case scenario for TNA. They go out of business.
Than Jeff Hardy doesn't have that TNA schedule sitting and
he still wants.

Speaker 2 (55:14):
To make some revenue.

Speaker 3 (55:15):
Maybe, you know, he could probably do fine in the
ND scene, but maybe WWE becomes a little more appealing.
I don't think Jeff want has any desire to ever
go back full time. I think it would take WWE
bending a little bit and giving him more of a
reduced schedule. And if they did that, wait, I think
Jeff could still do really good business for them.

Speaker 1 (55:33):
I think that's a good point. I think Jeff Hardy
would count even the Hardy Boys as a tag team,
would count the Dudleys as a tag team, would count
Christian at some point at obviously even he'd made a
lower level, would count Anthony. As we have been talking,
is there anybody else that you think that we all

(55:54):
of us collectively left off? And what's your answer to
your own question, because it seems like you maybe have
have an idea of why ww we should have more
legends at this point that they have access to are
alive and not spewing the N word and getting fired
and not too injured to get medically cleared.

Speaker 10 (56:09):
Well, it was actually to Jason's point, I think that
there was a period post Attitude era where everyone just well,
I don't want to say everyone fell off, but everyone
didn't have the opportunities that other people were afforded. There
just weren't as many top guys and guys that did
make it to the top. In fairness, many of them

(56:29):
have passed or are injured. So you know that ruthless
aggression era. So like Eddie Benoit Edge obviously, as you mentioned,
is unavailable, raised no longer with the company, and I'm
not sure that he's gonna be in shape.

Speaker 7 (56:43):
To come back.

Speaker 10 (56:44):
So I've just kind of had this feeling or I've
been thinking that the John Lerniitis era of talent, of
bringing in talent was just kind of a failure and
that we're going to hit this strange lull moving forward.

Speaker 1 (57:03):
If you're going to bring up Laura and IIIs like that,
then I guess we kind of have to say that
heiden Reich and Kenzl Suzuki Jason are in the wings
and available perhaps to come in.

Speaker 2 (57:13):
For a special wy I'd rather himself come in.

Speaker 10 (57:18):
Yeah, Yeah, no one. No one's gonna sell tickets. I
feel like from from like two thousand and five to
I don't know, two thousand and nine, I think it
would be big of anyone that really moves anything.

Speaker 1 (57:29):
Yeah, And you know that's where if if Big Show
were to have gone away, were to go away soon
and Kane goes away soon, I'm not saying there, you know,
brock lesnar Rock, Austin, you know, level, but you know
some of the stars from the two thousands, the ones
who kind of emerged, not necessarily post Monday Network Eric,

(57:49):
because Big Show and Kine were around during that obviously.
But yeah, I mean when you look at two thousand
to twenty ten from the perspective of twenty fifteen, and
you compare that to nineteen ninety to two thousand from
the perspective of two thousand and five, if you were
looking at, Okay, who's available, that's a big star. I
do think you are looking at a shorter list. And

(58:11):
I think what's scary for WWE, which has built WrestleMania
around special attractions, is and again, sometimes you don't know
until it happens, because you're gonna have John Cena, Randy
Orton by then, maybe Undertaker for a special appearance, not
necessarily a match. I mean, you know, there's some big
names from this era who five or certainly ten years

(58:31):
from now, if they go away for a while and
cut back to part time, will be special attractions. But
what about WrestleMania thirty six, thirty seven, before Sena has
been away long enough to or if he's even been
away yet. You know that that is a concern, and
that's where in a way WWE network is a good
thing because they because they'll have the subscribers built in.

Speaker 10 (58:58):
Yeah, but you said Bobby Lashley isn't going to give
you more subscribers.

Speaker 1 (59:05):
I'm sorry say that, Anthony. It's about Oh, it's about
building subscribers with a big, big attraction.

Speaker 10 (59:09):
Well, Bobby Lashley isn't going to help you build subscribers
if you bring them back in.

Speaker 2 (59:13):
Gotcha.

Speaker 10 (59:14):
You know, like like there aren't guys that help you.
You can't build video packages around almost anyone from that
era that's still young enough that I think would move
the needle in any significant way. And I mean I'm
not trying to blame anyone in particular. I just think
it's an interesting point that there's there's going to be
a lull.

Speaker 1 (59:34):
Absolutely, it's a great anthony. It's a great I mean,
it's a great topic, great question, and it's actually kind
of fodder for a more in depth article. I might
present that to one of the Torch writers to maybe
try to, you know, put put some thought. Look at
the roster compare you know, every five or ten years.
I think that's a great article idea to spend a

(59:54):
little bit more time on flashing out Jason, I we're
both kind of talking of each other, dude to technical stuff,
but go go ahead and give your thoughts too what
you're trying to say.

Speaker 3 (01:00:01):
Yeah, I was just saying they need to start transferring.
I get WrestleMania thirty two special circumstances. It's, you know,
a giant stadium that they want to fill once that
one comes and goes. I mean, I'd like to see
it some of this occur at that stadium where they
do start to pack worst, where they do start a
lot of the things Cmpunk talked about that you know
many of us have talked about for years, which is

(01:00:22):
start to elevate today stars treat them as equals, if
not superiors, to those stars from the Attitude era because
you're not going to have access to these guys forever.

Speaker 2 (01:00:31):
You need today's stars to be enough when the time comes.

Speaker 3 (01:00:35):
Don't have those guys working matches that people actually want
to pay to see them in the biggest match on
the biggest show of the year.

Speaker 11 (01:00:43):
I know.

Speaker 1 (01:00:44):
No, at some point, WWE is going to be in
a predicament, and that predicament is we need to make
WrestleMania seem special without being able to have Rock on call,
and I think the good the good news is is
that brock Lesnar might be available for years to come
as somebody who isn't burned out on TV every week

(01:01:05):
wrestling matches. He seems to be enjoying himself and as
he told the ESPN today, Hey, I just want to
keep earning more money because then I can buy a
bigger farm, you know. And and so he you know,
he talks about having a really good relationship with Vincent
Man right now, they're they're in sync, They've they found
a relationship that they're good with. Brocks hacked with the money.
He wants more money, but on this on his terms
and on his schedule. So maybe Brock turns out to

(01:01:27):
be that protected special attraction for years to come. And
then you know, when does Sina start weaning his schedule
a little bit? But now it's interesting article, Anthony. Appreciate
you calling any anything else you want to add or
another topic?

Speaker 12 (01:01:38):
Uh no, that's all for me today.

Speaker 10 (01:01:40):
Thank you very much for all that you guys do.

Speaker 7 (01:01:41):
I really appreciate it.

Speaker 1 (01:01:42):
Excellent. Hope to hear from you again.

Speaker 13 (01:01:45):
Sure are you a fan of aw Looking to sit back,
relax and listen to some like minded podcasters to share
your passion.

Speaker 14 (01:01:59):
You want to be topped off the ledge after a
segment that has you wondering what the heck are they thinking?

Speaker 13 (01:02:04):
Do you want to join a discussion on what AW
is doing right and what they could do to improve.
Then join me Joel and.

Speaker 14 (01:02:11):
Me Greg for the All Eleee Conversation Club every Friday
on the pw torch Live Cast feed. Search pw torch
in your podcast app and subscribe to pw torch Daily
Cast or stream our shows directly from pw torch dot com.
Find full details on the pw torch Dailycast lineup at
pw torchdailycast dot com.

Speaker 1 (01:02:39):
All right, let's go next to on nine to one
four and then on deck is seven one eight nine
one four. Thanks for holding and please stay your name
it where you're calling from.

Speaker 12 (01:02:48):
So Hey, guys, it's Shawan and Stanford, Connecticut calling.

Speaker 1 (01:02:51):
Hey Sean, Thanks for calling. What have you got for us?

Speaker 7 (01:02:54):
Uh?

Speaker 12 (01:02:54):
Just two questions. I'm not sure if you covered them
already tonight or in the past, but one, I mean,
I'm really looking forward to the NXT show on Saturday night.
I know they expanded it. There's about ten matches Now,
is the fact that they sold out that arena? Is

(01:03:15):
that going to you know, I don't know, maybe give
some I don't just make the WW reevaluate things and
say wow, look at this this style. They don't have
a major TV deal. TENA can never sell out that
building Ring of Honor certainly couldn't. So I mean would
that have any kind of influence on the main roster

(01:03:35):
going forward in terms of style? And my other question
separate from that is the whole Juician Liger thing. Is
that a one off deal or could we see more
of a working relationship with WW in New Japan? Because
I was surprised actually when they were leading up to
the when Balor won the NXC title, how much footage

(01:03:56):
they included of him in New Japan. I was kind
of surprised by that, and just wondering what your thoughts
are going forward on the relationship between the two companies.

Speaker 1 (01:04:06):
Great great topics show appreciate it, Jason, you can take
those in either order. There's you know, plenty to say
on both.

Speaker 3 (01:04:14):
Well, let's let's start with the style. I think the
Inn Ring style already has been influenced. Some of it
is guys coming through that system. Some of it I
really do believe. As guys not I mean, they always
they're always gonna have professional pride in what they do.
But you do hear that, you know, NXT set the
bar high with one of their laterals, and it serves
as motivation. I think they would most guys in the

(01:04:35):
main roster would kind of downplay that publicly, but I
do feel for some it's, you know, they viewed as
competition and it forces them to raise their game a
little bit. And I don't think that the whole thirteen
thousand and Berkeley Center is awesome. I don't see this
being though a major chain NXT just yet. I only

(01:04:56):
Vince McMahon knows for sure, but this is I would
think they're probably looking at this as special circumstances where
it could change is maybe you know, it's something I
brought up to Triple Ah and a conference call way
back when you know, they brought it to Wrestlemanny and
now they're bringing it to Summer Slam. Do they piggyback
Royal Rumble? Do they piggyback off of Survivor series? Do
they do that sort of thing? And when it's not

(01:05:19):
in a major hub, you know, like New York where
and on the East Coast where so many people travel
in for those shows. How do they do if it's
Survivor series in you know, Minneapolis, how many tickets could
they sell?

Speaker 7 (01:05:32):
Then?

Speaker 3 (01:05:33):
So I mean this, but wait, I don't think it's
not really proven anything where they need to completely expand
and treat this like a separate entity and try to
make this a whole separate brand that just is touring
everywhere on page, you know, trying to make it like
basically what Ron SmackDown were back in the day when
they were two separate touring brands.

Speaker 1 (01:05:53):
Yes, I think it's a great, great point. I think NXT.
I mean, there's a couple angles talk about with what
Sean brought up. I think NXT is going to evolve
differently or develop differently in relationship to WWE Raw and
SmackDown than any other circumstance historically. I don't mind talking
about it, but my answer is always going to be

(01:06:14):
it's not going to be brand A one in one
A or you know one A and one B or
you know everyone to talk about it. I think NXT
is and you could tell the way they talked about
it on Raw last night. You know they're still not
sure it's I mean part I talked about this on
the vip Keller Highline last night. I don't want to
see NXT start getting a ton of plugs during RAW.
I I think part of the cachet, part of the

(01:06:35):
appeal of NXT is the fact that it's not something
that Vincent Mann is in, Stephanie and Hunter out there
and TV we shoving down everybody sort of what you
got to order this, it's great, it's this and that.
It's sort of like, oh, there's a commercial. Here's the
top two matches. Here's a couple of people you might
have heard of, young, a couple of women wrestlers, and
and Kevin Owens against this Finn Balor guy who looks intriguing,
but we're not going to tell you a lot about him.
He got to be a network subscriber. Cole talked a

(01:06:56):
little bit about it during the Kevin Owens tag match,
and there was one other reference to it later on commentary,
but they didn't It wasn't pushed hard. This isn't hey.
It's like I told him all the kell hihline. Wwe
could have said it's a doubleheader, weekend, but they didn't
do that. It's still WWE as the main brand. NXT
is a bonus. It's nice if you know about it.

(01:07:18):
It might be an incentive to subscribe to the network,
but they're not ready to push it as a brand.
The thing that I think Sean gets at very specifically
is the style and does the style of wrestler that
gets over an NXT and the style of matches they have,
does that influence Vince's direction on the roster. I'm a
belief of several aspects of this one. Vince McMahon has

(01:07:39):
his preferences, but he ultimately will bend if you provide
him and Hunter's talked about this too, if you provide
him with evidence that's something that his instinct has got,
his experience tells him is the right way. If you
provide him with evidence that there's a different way that
is working or will work, he'll listen. Because he is
about money. That's why he got back into business with
a lot of people who said a lot of horrible
things about him, many of which for true, many of

(01:08:00):
which probably weren't. You know, I mean, you know, that's
how it is when you're the public figure that physic
man is in a lightning rod like he can be,
you know, Sable, Heck bruck Lesnar you know, they went
to war and lawsuits and all of that. So when
it gets down to it, we'll do what will draw money.
But you have to convince him and does NXT drawing
piggybacking off a SummerSlam do enough when otherwise he's hearing

(01:08:23):
about oh, three hundred people drawn at a spot show
in Florida on you know, over the weekend, and we
had a report up on that show from a correspondent
at PW torch dot com. It's like NXT's still drawing
in the hundreds at spot shows. Doesn't mean that it
got hype on television. It didn't have title matches, it
wasn't built up. But still Vince sees that and there's
these contrasting there's a contrast of evidence about whether this

(01:08:44):
is that hot of a product. And Kevin Owens, you know,
you can tell he's not getting talking time on TV.
He got pushed against Sena. It happened to coincide with
I do not blame Kevin Owens for it with the
period in ratings. So now Vince is kind of you know,
shifting away to other things things, but Cizarro getting more
time on television. Does that happen if NXT in general

(01:09:07):
isn't kind of the hot thing and the indie guys
who were in their keep over at ROH or overseas
aren't getting more attention. I mean, I think my answer
is multifaceted because I don't think it's a straight line
to where it's going to land. I think that with
Vincent control, it's a winding road and we can't predict
where it's going to go. I don't think, Jason, getting

(01:09:27):
back to something that you said, that NXT ends up
taking over Thursday Nights and it becomes a separate brand,
and I almost don't think it. I don't want to
see NXT title belts on Raw anymore. It should have
only been when Kevin Owens was answering seen as US
title Open Challenge. Otherwise it's an NXT title that belongs
on NXT television. And I think the universes should be
kept even more separate than they currently are because I

(01:09:48):
think it helps NXT stake really special. So I threw
a lot out there, Jason, anything you want to reply.

Speaker 3 (01:09:53):
To on that, well, just to add to the best
of NXT talents that have come up that really haven't
made a big flash. I mean, I think Neville has
shown that. You know, that match with seth Rawlins was
one of my favorites of the year that that aired
on RAW recently. I really enjoyed that. But he's in
a mid card match at Summer Slam. I loved what
they night, by the way, but then also Bo Dallas,

(01:10:15):
former NXT CHAMPI it's just a no man's land, a
guy that I thought should have come out at the
end of you know, after rawing off the air, so
brock Lesner could beat up someone for his hometown crowd,
but we didn't get anything like that. I think that
n X he well, I want to play into the
next ques about the whole ju haagrit situation. New Japan
pre slang. You know, Ring of Honor announced that they're

(01:10:38):
running three shows in Japan in February, and that isn't
as far as the relationship is concerned, because denied publicly
a very good source in that company saying they were
you know when that when the news of lager came out,
ready to just fortise, like get through the show in
Brooklyn move on. There were some real hurt feelings over

(01:10:59):
that someday had been paranoia and not understanding the lay
of the land.

Speaker 2 (01:11:02):
They felt blind to that.

Speaker 3 (01:11:04):
The fact that they're running these shows in Pan that
that relationship is certainly better than it was. After that
announcement was made that that's in Japan, I realized WW
is the big I know that they know that NXT
is the cool promotion over here, so maybe they can
do more together. I you know, I think Ring of

(01:11:27):
Honor is in a position way where yeah, they can
be stubborn and put their foot down, but I think
it would be a foolish move. They need New Japan
Wrestling a lot more than New Japan preling needs Ring
of Honor at this point. So it may be one
of those relationships where they're always going to be a
little bit nervous about things, but they're going to move
forward with it as long as they can. But you know,
from New Japan's perspective, it's just so hard to say.

(01:11:49):
But I do think there's a possibility of New Japan
some business with NX going forward as well.

Speaker 1 (01:11:57):
Yeah, I don't know that ROH has leverage to say
New Japan you are not allowed to do anything with
w W E or n x T while you're working
with US Jusian Liger exception aside. But RH did announce,
you know, just a couple of days ago, that they're
going to have those live shows in Japan, So you

(01:12:18):
have to eat as you're as you're doing. You got
to incorporate that into the thought process that it seems
like that relationship is actually expanding and getting stronger, not
getting weaker, even with WWE now releasing some Jusian Lager merchandise.
So I'm intrigued by it. And then we've got you know,
World Wrestling Network or w w W and Live doing

(01:12:38):
their UH the some there's some scouting going on with
w W E and that group that was the subject
of a lot of conversation two months ago with w
w N Live uh and and what would relationship be there,
and you know, Jimmy Jacobs and Gabes pulsecaving history and
Jimmy now being a w W creative and Gabe being

(01:13:02):
the person with ww and life and evolved. So it's
it seems like there's some moving parts. My thinking is
just to kind of sum it all up briefly, I
think New Japan continues to work with Rowitch for the
foreseeable future and doesn't do anymore with WWE and into
twenty sixteen and WWE scouts with Gabe and WWN Live

(01:13:24):
and US as Jimmy Jacobs kind of help them keeping
on the NDC and in addition to other contributions, and
I think things kind of settle there and we don't
really see a lot as far as nxt go is
getting involved in this. That's my summation that, yeah, that's you.

Speaker 3 (01:13:36):
I don't see I'd be surprised if they did more
in business this year as well, But never say never
with those two. I mean, I think obviously there were
some discussions overseas, and it's not my understanding. It's not
like the Juician Lager thing is completely independent in New Japan.
And I was told Ring of Honor had a chance
to book Jusian Lager for this weekend shows along with

(01:13:59):
the other New Japan they didn't, So had they actually
booked him, I don't know if they would have brought
some WW you would to try to bring someone else in,
or if it was if it was more of a
lager thing. But the point is they have to go
through New Japan to get him.

Speaker 1 (01:14:11):
As my understanding, give yourself a reason to look forward
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(01:14:32):
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Take a break from screen time and settle in every
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(01:14:54):
Pro Wrestling Torch Newsletter paper Copy edition. In the year
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four an eight week trial subscription PW Toorch dot com
slash paper Copy. All right, We're going to with our
remaining minutes take as many calls as we can, but

(01:15:14):
Jason and I are committing to do rapid fire answers,
because we've got a lot of people on hold, and
I want to give everybody a chance here with our
late start broadcasting live and having less time to take calls,
probably than usual to have you do that, but ask
ask got either one question or two kind of apid
fire best questions. And I do want to try to
get to as many colors as we can in our

(01:15:34):
remaining minutes here on the live feed. And we'll go
to seven one eight, then seven seven three, and then
six one six and then eight six to two, and
then one one one and then eight five six and
then three four seven and then nine two nine. Those
are the air codes in order right now on the switchboard.
I'm not guaranteeing we're getting all of them, but that
is the order, so prepared for that. And we begin
with seven one eight, seven one eight. Please state your
name and the city or calling from.

Speaker 7 (01:15:57):
Hello, How are you doing? Thanks, gentlemen, And this is
Mike from Brooklyn. How you guys swelling today?

Speaker 1 (01:16:02):
Doing great? Mike good here from Brooklyn. What have you
got for us?

Speaker 2 (01:16:05):
Oh?

Speaker 7 (01:16:06):
Yeah, well yes both. I will be at both shows
this weekend. I got my cousin at the Alloway show
and I got my buddy, he just moved out to Vegas.
He told me gonna check out. You know, the Global
forth capens to come this Friday, So you know, I
got everything covering, all right.

Speaker 1 (01:16:24):
Mike, send us send us reports PW Torch at gmail
dot com with your observations live at both shows if
you if you're so willing to do so, and have
your friends send us a report too. Let them know
about that.

Speaker 7 (01:16:35):
Absolutely, absolutely excellent to two quick questions. You know one,
you know I wanted to get you and Jason's you
know thought on this, you know, on what we've been
seeing on Impact Wrestling, And do you think you know,
like with let's being spoken of, will they be around
a little bit longer? And all you got. I don't

(01:16:56):
know if you spoke about it earlier, because it was
you know, it was trouble with the system. Yeah, you
guys open to you know, maybe like you know, for
the main event of SummerSlam, will block and take a
do you for some reason see maybe you know, like
a stinging interfalence or you know, some type of double
interchalance going on at the end of the match. I

(01:17:16):
was just listening. You guys have a wonderful rest of.

Speaker 1 (01:17:19):
The poland cool So TNA and interference with Shenanigan's in
the finish of the big match Sunday, Jason, take you
the one first, Well.

Speaker 3 (01:17:29):
The finish of the match on Sunday, I mean I'm expecting.
I mean it's easy to write like a DQ scenario,
cheap interferen scenario, something. For both of the big matches
on Summer Slam. I think one of them we need
to get something clean. My guess is it's the main event.
I've said this a few times now. If Taker is

(01:17:52):
Nosey's wrapping up at at thirty two in Texas, I
think saifully lose this match because then the focus ships
to Undertaker's last ride, and people are going to pay
to see that. Even if Brock Lesner's beat him twice,
They're going it's going to be a bigger deal than
any match Broc that Undertaker could have without that. Now
that the streak is gone once, it just becomes about

(01:18:14):
his last match people. You know, if unless the matches
against Lesnar, which I hope they don't do again at WrestleMania,
I think he's okay.

Speaker 2 (01:18:22):
What was the TNA question with do.

Speaker 1 (01:18:25):
You do you think that just the lack of news
about their future is good news for TNA.

Speaker 3 (01:18:32):
I I don't really view it one way or another.
I mean, they're kind of they're in between well I
would say in between tapings. But it's not like they've
announced another taping date.

Speaker 1 (01:18:42):
I think I think that they announced a couple of
one or two live events right around the time they
need more TV though.

Speaker 3 (01:18:50):
Yeah, okay, I did talk with someone in the company
with that and their best guess on this. They had
one show that we that was you know already. I
think it was a bought show where everything's could taken
care of. They knew the price are getting and all that,
and then they just decided, since everybody's there, why not
run a couple of events. And so it's like, I

(01:19:10):
think everything's already covered as far as transportation goes.

Speaker 2 (01:19:13):
Did they turn one of those into a taping? Sure?

Speaker 3 (01:19:15):
No one that I've talked with in the company is
aware of that happening. I mean, that's the thing people
are waiting for, is just news that there's going to
be another taping and when that is. And last check,
as of earlier this well, actually as of late last week,
no one was aware of any official taping. I mean,
there's certainly wrongs that it could happen and all that,

(01:19:35):
but you know they're watching. The other thing to watch
for is Destination America. I mean, we're at that point
where they should be announcing up all lineup and is
DNA part of that lineup?

Speaker 2 (01:19:47):
It's it.

Speaker 1 (01:19:48):
Yeah, I agree with you. I mean I don't read
into either way quite yet, but I think we're I
mean we're past mid August. Now, we're count down almost
thirty days, you know, all four or five episodes left
in the can. So you know, is Bound for Glory
the big send off say goodbye everybody officially or is
there a renewal by that in new taping? So, I
mean we're gonna know one way or the other, probably

(01:20:09):
soon here, within a week or two. For the reasons
you said, Jason. The dates for September seventeenth in York,
Pennsylvania that was set, September eighteenth added in Elmira, New York,
and September nineteenth in Pittsburgh. Tickets already on sale for those.
It's part of the road for Bound for Glory tour
leading to Bound for Glory on October fourth, which is
on the pay per view schedule. I want to stay
true to rapid Fire, So I'm going to move on

(01:20:31):
from Mike and move now to Eric code seven seventh three,
sevenement three. Please state your name in the city.

Speaker 7 (01:20:36):
You're calling from Chicago?

Speaker 1 (01:20:39):
What we got? Yeah?

Speaker 15 (01:20:41):
G one, Ocatta o'catt and aj they you know he
lost to him. He won in G one. There's gonna
be another match.

Speaker 7 (01:20:51):
We just got to wait on it.

Speaker 15 (01:20:52):
I love how they managed to get that in and
with no difficulty. And that's my question is how do
you like the format of how a j and Okada
you know, was matched up? And my last question is
Tanahashi won the final match? How do you guys like
the format? If you know, if you got to see
it with the trophy, the big old check and the

(01:21:15):
flag and all of the legends. Yeah, yeah, the legends,
the ending presentations of it.

Speaker 7 (01:21:21):
How do you guys like that?

Speaker 15 (01:21:23):
You know, just just me experiencing the new Japan.

Speaker 1 (01:21:27):
I love Boris. He just sounds panic because he knows
we don't have a lot of times great Jason Japan,
I mean, Japan doesn't great. Pride did it great either?
I mean I when Dixie Carter was on this very
show earlier this year. Right, actually it was a day
after they debuted on Destination America. You know, I told her,
you got to watch that that New Japan show that
Jim Ross called the Tokyo Show to see the production differences.

(01:21:48):
And this can be presented differently than her, I think
relatively narrow view of what wrestling could be presented as
if for nothing else, to ask different questions to a
product team and look at things differently and not be
just settled. I think anytime New Japan does anything like that,
they set the bar really high. They find a way
to make everything and it's talk about and I can't

(01:22:10):
use this term in a few months of using it
a lot, but they create that immersive sports like and
I think it serves their audience so well. Whether their
audience is aware, cares, or doesn't care about whether it's
fully real, fake, orchestrated whatever. That immersive sports environment shines
in that sense that you're watching something that's part of
an ongoing, meaningful historical occurrence really adds to everything. And

(01:22:33):
Japanza just does it just so well. So talk about
that and anything else sports had to say about.

Speaker 2 (01:22:37):
G One, Yeah, I did not keep up on the
g one this year.

Speaker 3 (01:22:41):
It's just we've had our hands full here with the
with the things in the United States, or at least
I have, so I am not the guy to ask
about it in general, though It's what Wadge said, you know,
it's I wish ring of Honors. It's it probably comes
as close as Buddy in the big groups of just
presenting that style where you feel like you're watching a sport.

(01:23:01):
They don't take you out of the moment. I would
love to see that. I'd love to see a gu
one format used for WWE network, where you know their
own spin on it. I don't expect them to go
as match heavy, you know, as big of a tournament,
but even like even if it's the ringstyle where it's
more hard brackets, something like that, as long as it
doesn't lead to a King Barrett would be great for

(01:23:23):
the network. I think just a bigger tournament where you're
telling people, okay, this month, if you get the network,
you can see all these different matches it as part
of a hell a sixty four man tournament, I think
would actually, I think people would love it. I don't
know how many new subscriptions it would sell. Maybe it
would be too much for the casual person, but I
know I would love it. I'd love to see WWE

(01:23:44):
do something like that.

Speaker 16 (01:23:51):
I'm Kelly Wells, host of PWT Talks NXT, the longest
running NXT podcast Anywhere. Join me along with Nate Lindberg,
Bruce Lee, Hazelwood and special guests live every Tuesday night,
just minutes after NXT, where we cover the good, the bad,
and the ugly on the way to becoming a star
in WWE. Check us out live on YouTube or stream

(01:24:12):
later wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 1 (01:24:22):
Very cool. We got tons of we want coverage over
at PW torch dot com for VIP members, especially Sean
radickin writing full page columns every week the last three weeks,
including on the new pre Progressing Torch Newsletter, which will
drop online in PDF format and all text format tomorrow.
He'll have a recap of the in his analysis of
the last week or the last days of the tournament,

(01:24:42):
James Caldwell with a feetailed report on that show. It'll
be in this week's Porusing Torch Newsletter. It's also available
ad free at PW Torch dot com splash members for
VIP members Sean Radikin has done a variety of VIP
exclusive shows. Boris, I haven't checked to see if you're
VIP right now or not, but as into the g
One as you are, I hold our devouring are almost

(01:25:06):
daily every couple of days audios dedicated to the G
One Climax tournament. Shawn's had a variety of different guests
on discussing events and UH and and that daily happenings,
and I'm really proud of especially what James and Sean
have been able to do. So Boris, check that out
if you haven't yet from more. Now, let's go to
six one six as we try to rapid fire through
some more phone calls. Six one six, Please state your

(01:25:27):
name and where you're calling from.

Speaker 10 (01:25:29):
This is an air program ramp. It's just a quick
question for you, Wade.

Speaker 2 (01:25:32):
Would you ever have Jim Cornett on the as A
as a Thursday conversation? Your relationship with him pretty good?

Speaker 1 (01:25:37):
And that's all you got things. I think that Jim
has his outlet and I have mine, and I think
with the history between us and the fact that I
don't talk about it much, but it sounds like he
still does on occasion and there's still he still got
you know, hard feelings there. I just don't see that happening,
and I don't think it's a particularly huge get just

(01:26:01):
just because he's got his own outlet. So without the
personal chemistry that a Mick Fully or Jim Ross or
Steve Austin or just Incredible or Sean Waltman have, along
with the fact that you can hear him out there elsewhere,
probably it's just not gonna happen. So let's go to
uh A six two next ATX two. Please state your
name and where you're calling.

Speaker 11 (01:26:18):
From, Kyland from New Jersey. First question, the black lessener
truly believes that that Vince McMahon is a better combat
sports promote than Day the White or do you believe

(01:26:40):
that he just said that in order to Playtate w
w E.

Speaker 1 (01:26:45):
Executive uh Jason, that's Kylin's first question. What do you
think on that?

Speaker 2 (01:26:52):
You know, it's a fair question, it's nothing.

Speaker 3 (01:26:55):
He never made comments like that when he worked for
UFC about bench McMahon, even though there were hard feelings
there at the time. But now it's you know, you
can't just go based on that because I don't think
brock Lesner needs UFC at this point. I mean, you
never say never regarding some sort of a business arrangement
in the future. But now that he's retired as a

(01:27:16):
fighter and he draws, he gets his pay from WWE,
it's an easier thing to say.

Speaker 2 (01:27:21):
He may believe it. I mean, Vince has had a
very long and success back record.

Speaker 3 (01:27:25):
He may genuinely feel that Vince does a better job
than Dana White does.

Speaker 2 (01:27:30):
It may politics, It's hard to say. Where do you
stand on that?

Speaker 1 (01:27:34):
One way, My stand is there's absolutely no way Brock
would have said the opposite, given that he's got a
good relationship with Vince. I think there is a very
legit chance that Rock thinks, having been around Dana White
and Vince, that Vince runs larger, more elaborate promotional machine
that impresses him more from a production and pr standpoint

(01:27:57):
in terms of being a promoter of the brand. And
I say, sometimes WWW doesn't really promote matches anymore. They
just present them, especially on raw, but even sometimes on
pay per view. I think they have done a better
job the last couple of weeks in that regard for SummerSlam.
But I think Vincic Mahn's focus has been on promoting
the brand of WWE or as he sees its sports entertainment,
and I think he's better, you know, White at it. Yeah,

(01:28:19):
I mean Dana White is promoting real fights that to
a certain degree sell themselves, and I think there's an
advantage there. But it's not really an apples apples comparison,
so I don't think we can go too deep into it.
But Brock's going to say that about probably whoever he's
working for. Kylin, your second question out of two, rapid fire,
what have you got for us?

Speaker 11 (01:28:36):
Second question? Have you heard from any sources within the
cable television industry off records who have expressed to you
that they might be willing to take on CNA if
Destination of America were to drop them?

Speaker 1 (01:29:00):
Excellent? Thanks, Kylin. I have not, Jason, how about you
through your network?

Speaker 3 (01:29:07):
No, it's I mean it's like I'm talking with network
you know, executives of all place or anything like that.

Speaker 2 (01:29:12):
So let's be clear there.

Speaker 3 (01:29:13):
But you know, the one people have said just to
keep an eye on as a possibility is something with Spike,
and it's namely due to the fat or mainly due
to the fact that Dixie Carter did have a good
relationship with Kevin K.

Speaker 2 (01:29:26):
So it feels like a long shot. I mean a
major long shot.

Speaker 3 (01:29:30):
You know, people just when you push people like for
a potential other network, that's the one that does come up.

Speaker 1 (01:29:37):
That would be intriguing, and that would be a huge
relief for TNA fans and a nice little full circle
story for Dixie to say, Look, you know they missed us,
they miss our ratings. Let's go back. Let's we build
something together. We flirted and dated others and and now
we decided where we belong together. I can hear it
right now, but I haven't heard that. But that's interesting

(01:30:00):
and it's an intriguing thought. And you know, it's possible
Spike missussles numbers and TNA might come back a little
humbled after losing you know, sixty percent of their viewers
who we're watching on Spike these days, humble.

Speaker 2 (01:30:10):
All right, Oh my god, the I told you SOS
would be.

Speaker 1 (01:30:13):
Off the chart?

Speaker 2 (01:30:15):
Oh on DNA. Oh yeah, yeah, there's no such thing
as humility there.

Speaker 1 (01:30:21):
Yeah, yeah, I'm with you. I'm with you, all right.
One one one maybe Skype International if you heard a
beat stage name and where are you calling from?

Speaker 10 (01:30:29):
Hey, it's Mike from Canada.

Speaker 11 (01:30:31):
I hope you take a question.

Speaker 1 (01:30:33):
Can we don't we like to go by by city?
We know Canada?

Speaker 2 (01:30:36):
Well enough?

Speaker 10 (01:30:37):
Oh okay, it wasn't your Now I'm just kidding from Ottawa.

Speaker 1 (01:30:41):
Cool, Okay.

Speaker 17 (01:30:42):
Anyways, I have a quick one, all right, go ahead,
quick comment. I just wanted to say, after seeing what
happened last night at brock Losers homecoming again with him
getting kicked in the nuts by Taker, I think he's
definitely going to be winning on Sunday, and if he doesn't,
I'll be rioting on James James's show on the Sunday
after show. So thanks and take care.

Speaker 1 (01:31:01):
The Undertaker interference can go both ways, Jason, can't it.
I mean, it can be that Taker's going to try
to cheat and it's going to backfire, and that's going
to be kind of the excuse that you know, I'm
not saying it's going to be a fire Bob, but
like you know, Taker takes out a firebomb, lights it,
but Lesner you know, knocks it into Taker's face and
pins him. So Taker has an excuse for losing. I
think with Taker willing to resort to those tactics, you

(01:31:23):
can make an argument, in other words, that it could
backfire goal the other way. But it also goes back
to what we talked about earlier. There can just be shenanigans.
There can be something that ends up leading to a
finish in one or both matches that is not it's
not decisive, so it doesn't It's not like when Brockby
takeer clean at thirty. You know, this is different. This
could be a different type of evening exactly.

Speaker 3 (01:31:46):
Yeah, I think, I mean it may for brock Lester
and to go, okay, you want to play that way,
I get to him into for brock Lesner cheat on Monday.

Speaker 1 (01:31:54):
Yeah. By the way, I thought the streamers a target
center for Lesner were pretty good, but there could have
been more. You know, when I've been at timber Minnesota
Timberwovese games.

Speaker 2 (01:32:03):
Where they got hung up in the lighting rig.

Speaker 1 (01:32:05):
Oh did they okay? All right?

Speaker 3 (01:32:08):
I overstated that there were definitely were up in the
lighting rig. Yeah, they had more.

Speaker 1 (01:32:13):
Though, You're right, because there's there's times where the Timberwolves
have won a game and it's like it's one of
a you know, one of forty one home games, and
I mean it's it's you know, the local media makes
fun of it. It's like, whoo, who we won? You know,
it's such a rare thing for the Timberwolves, but they do.
They'll drop streamers in confetti for a win, you know,
to send the fans home even happier that they saw
something significant. And it wasn't quite as elaborator in Uh,

(01:32:36):
there wasn't as much for Brock coming out. It did
seem to get better as it went on, but at
first it was sort of like just kind of like, oh,
here's some people standing up, just kind of dropping them down.

Speaker 3 (01:32:46):
So the editorial staff at Target Center is praying for
Timberwolves bosses, is what you're saying.

Speaker 1 (01:32:51):
Yeah, well, unless they get paid overtime, and which case,
especially around the holidays, can come in handy.

Speaker 2 (01:32:56):
Damn it.

Speaker 1 (01:32:56):
They lost no streamer overtime. Yeah, all right, on a
more relevant topics three for seven. Please state your name
of the city are calling from.

Speaker 18 (01:33:04):
Uh, my name is Chris, and I asked you questions
from New York.

Speaker 1 (01:33:10):
Yes you are okay?

Speaker 7 (01:33:12):
The first ask the first.

Speaker 18 (01:33:13):
Question about vincick Man and Haul colgan Us. It is
a part of vincric Man that was happy that this
thing happened. With Holgan because some stamp point he was
looking for a way to get rid of him, given
the fact that he's a delusion of the state that
he com made it at WrestleMania, even though he's almost
a sitious citizen. And the second Tully question about NFL football,

(01:33:34):
do you see Debby doing anything to try to preserve
their ratings very football season or from their standpoint, I
think he's going to do their business and whatever happens happening.

Speaker 1 (01:33:44):
Good questions the second question, Jason, I don't know that
there's a lot ww WE can do. I haven't heard
anything that they will other than give Seena the title.

Speaker 2 (01:33:53):
But you know it.

Speaker 1 (01:33:55):
I mean the rating last night we talked about you
up a two point seven three rating going into SummerSlam,
above the two point seventy to one last week, despite
Undertaker and Lesner and Sina and Hayman all being on
the show. I don't think that's exciting. I don't think
that made WWE particularly happy. That the numbers were were

(01:34:18):
not considerably better, and they peaked in the second hour
almost up to four million, but not quite. The third
hour dropped quite a bit but not quite below the
first hour. I don't know that there is a lot
that they can do. As for the Hogan thing, and
then I'll throw to you Jason for both. I think
there was part of nsuc Man that's kind happy this
happened because I think WWE escaped any harm. And as

(01:34:40):
much as it would have been nice, stev Oh, Hogan's
not tough enough and you know all that, I don't
think it's I don't think Hogan was a big enough
part of that show and a big enough draw to
have devastated the ratings. It doesn't seem like that happened.
I don't think it made any difference. I don't think
anybody said it. I'm not watching because I can't hear
Hogan talk about the contestants. And if Hogan was and
I've reported this, you know, Hogan has kind of irritated

(01:35:01):
Vince wanting to wrestle, complaining about pay, you know, just
I just think there's been enough history with Vince and Hogan,
and I've heard that Vince never fully fully forgave Hogan
for you know, going to WW and and putting Vince
almost on a business in Vince's eyes, and I think,
truthfully so with that he'll turn in the nWo run
and even going to TNA more recently, you know, you

(01:35:23):
know way Vince like, well, I respect Hulk for you know,
going to you know, not just reason, lying completely on
me for paychecks and all that and and uh and
going out on his own. But I think Hogan lost
some some of his value when the tough enough ratings
came out cold and he failed to do anything sustaining
in a sustainable way with TNA. I think Vince just
sort of thought, I have all the leverage. This guy's

(01:35:45):
a little bit more of a headache than he might
be worth. And so yeah, I don't think I don't
think it was a big loss for him. We're about
to go to a commercial break. Why lessen to commercial
breaks when you can go v IP and experience our
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vip for full details, or go to Patreon Patreon dot

(01:36:06):
com slash PW Torch. VIP rate start as low as
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and plugs through Patreon. Full VIP membership starts at nine
dollars in ninety nine cents to treat yourself to a
streamlined AD and plug free listening experience with a vip
or Patreon membership. Jason, your thoughts on both.

Speaker 3 (01:36:26):
I don't think it was a big wall. I don't
know that he's sitting around happy about it. I mean,
I think Hogan still had some value, especially with the network,
you know, different tie ins there. I think he would
have liked to have had him around in some capacity,
was in the re or you know elsewhere for this
coming WrestleMania. Well, yeah, I mean they didn't mention him
strongly enough to really make it matter.

Speaker 2 (01:36:46):
What was the other question?

Speaker 1 (01:36:48):
Uh, just asked the other question, and no, I forgot.
Chris asked about will they do anything different this fall
to try to boost ratings.

Speaker 3 (01:36:59):
I don't they can do. I mean they're loading up
Summer Slam in a big way. I think that's one
concern I have. I think it's cooler loading up Summer Slam.
I worry about, you know, we get to wrestle Nanny
a hangover? Is there a Summer Slam hangover? When Taker
goes away, if Rock goes away. I think it's only
a matter of time. Before Brock does, but we don't know.
If they win that will be and it wincides with

(01:37:20):
the return of football season. And I mean that SmackDown
number going against a couple of preseason games on the
NFL network was brutal. I mean, and granted it's just
smacked Down, but it's preseason football and it really cut
into SmackDown's number on Thursday, I should say, and have
to with raw being where it is now, I wait,

(01:37:41):
I think it could get ugly. I think they're going
to have to do something, but history says they're just
going to do what they normally do and if and
then if all of a sudden the numbers are worse
than expected, then they start hot shotting. But I'm always
confused and disappointed that they don't seem to go into
football season with any major storyline or that they're lighted about.

Speaker 2 (01:38:01):
It's just kind of business as usual. I think it's
such a poor approach for them to take.

Speaker 1 (01:38:06):
Yep, No, I agree, I think that they're they're all there.
Takes me on Summer Slam, I hope, but we don't know.
We want to tell, you know, the next two Mondays. Uh,
what do they have in mind? Headed into Labor Day
to get people excited about coming back the Monday after
Labor Day. There's just not enough evidence there to judge.
All Right, we had our rapid fire phone call series
with nine two nine, nine to nine. Please state your
name in the city you're calling.

Speaker 7 (01:38:26):
From, is Jonathan for New York?

Speaker 12 (01:38:29):
I got too, Yeah, go.

Speaker 1 (01:38:32):
Ahead, Jonathan. Your connection is a little soft, so to
speak up and we'll try to hear you. Jonathan. We
can't hear you. Maybe he's going through a tunnel. He
helped for a long time. Jonathan, can you hear us?
Come on, Jonathan. Oh, we're rooting for you. Now we
can hear.

Speaker 18 (01:38:49):
I got two questions.

Speaker 1 (01:38:51):
Yeah, a point.

Speaker 19 (01:38:52):
Do you think that says that Luis Allen has had
destination I'm ready to come?

Speaker 10 (01:38:58):
Might be descending them.

Speaker 7 (01:39:00):
And also I don't know how true it is about brock.

Speaker 19 (01:39:03):
Lesner and I'm just taking that app and I being
advertised for road the next day that you didn't know
that play might be dumb of the pine advertising on
doing something for them, like kind of like WrestleMania. And
because I'm like, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:39:17):
I okay, yeah, I don't think thank you, Jonathan. I
don't think that Undertaker and Lessner should be on Raw
the next day because it's time to move on. They're not.
I don't think Lesner the result of that match is
something where it would call for them to necessarily be
on Raw because it's all about selling Summer Slam and
then moving forward from there, and what matters is what's
next for Brock when he ends up showing up again.

Speaker 2 (01:39:38):
I can't remember that.

Speaker 1 (01:39:39):
This that I know, I meant just saw the city
because I got his t shirts marketed for the next time,
but I can't remember the exact date that he's gonna
be on Rockgain Jason.

Speaker 2 (01:39:45):
Yeah, I say save the date.

Speaker 3 (01:39:47):
If there's not a big angle with Brock Lesner that
we're setting up whatever he does, save it. And you
already know you you get a nice off the night
after Summer Slam. Anyway, I think that's enough. And yeah,
it'd be as a view where you'd like to have
them there. It feels like a big show and all that,
and Taker that he usually just disappears, and you know then,
especially if he's willing to lose, then they can play

(01:40:08):
up the mystery as he done, you know, all that
sort of thing. So it I guess it wouldn't shock
me if both of them made an unassed appearance, but
the building has been sold out they advertised them.

Speaker 1 (01:40:19):
Therefore the uh loot on the ground rate. I don't
think they've had enough ratings on L RAY even though
L Rays a week network for Destination America to be
all that interested. But it would kind of fit. I
guess the theme that they try to celebrate a little
bit which is eccentric. I wouldn't say ethnic necessarily, but
eccentric pockets of America where we go and look at

(01:40:43):
whether it's Alaska or Deep South or whatever. I mean,
I don't I think it would blend in actually to
the format a little bit better than TNA does because
TNA really hasn't gone much with that that they haven't
pushed that idea that or theme that fit. It's I
think ECW did more with a sci fi theme at
the beginning than TNA ever did with the Destination America theme.

(01:41:06):
Not that it matters that much to ratings, but I yeah,
Looch Underground fits better. But I just don't think the
fund that that Destination America would fund it based on
the ratings performance on L RAY. Jason, your thoughts.

Speaker 3 (01:41:17):
I mean, they've they reached out to to wrestling companies.
I don't know if either one of those companies is
going to be around. I think at the budget they had,
I think that that that l Loot need products more
than what Deation America would offer.

Speaker 1 (01:41:35):
Yeah, all right, well let's wrap up on that note.
We went longer than usual, but we got started later
than usual with live calls, but got to a lot
of calls. So thank you to our callers. If you
are an mm a UFC fan, check out mmatorch dot com,
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(01:41:55):
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from so many different angles, including all kinds of media appearances.

Speaker 7 (01:42:13):
Up.

Speaker 1 (01:42:14):
We have details right now on brock Lessner's appearance on
ESPN this morning that you might have missed, and we'll
have details on John Cen on the Today's show, coverage
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(01:42:35):
follow me on Twitter at Dwade Keller and our brand
at p w Torch. Jason close out the show with
plugs of your own, and then we'll move to the
VP after show for our respective members.

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Speaker 2 (01:43:05):
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Look for Pro Wrestling dot Net Membership sale in the
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Speaker 2 (01:43:13):
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Speaker 3 (01:43:15):
And we'll also have a show up on Saturday with
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(01:43:38):
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you as well. Please give us a call. Looking forward
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Speaker 1 (01:43:54):
Very good. Thank you Jason Powell from Pro Wrestling dot
Net and on behalf of Jason Powell. Thanks again to
all of our callers on today program and VIAP members
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Pat McNeil tomorrow for another livecast, same time, same place.

(01:44:37):
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Speaker 3 (01:45:00):
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